WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:03.680 All right, let's get a drive time Friday afternoon, eight 2 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.759 minutes past the hour, two o'clock. It is a beautiful, 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:10.119 picturesque day outside here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. 4 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.679 We're looking at about seventy eight degrees, clear and sunny. 5 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.679 Temperatures will warm throughout the course of the weekend, and 6 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:19.160 as it is every single day, it's going to have 7 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.480 you along for the ride. Spence checket's behind the mike 8 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:26.199 porta Larson behind the glass producing the program today and 9 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:28.359 booking the program today. We've got a good guest list 10 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.800 man excited for this. Happy Friday to you. Congratulations, you 11 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:34.600 made it. It is weekend time. Take a big, old 12 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.920 deep breath and enjoy the fact that you made it 13 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.039 through the week. Hope you have some fun weekend plans 14 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.719 with this beautiful weather here in Salt Lake City, Utah 15 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.159 and the surrounding areas. Maybe get out, do a little hiking, 16 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.560 little biking, walk the dog, swing a golf club. We've 17 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.560 got some NBA Finals action to talk about. I'll tell 18 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.759 you what, never been one to do radio with the 19 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.719 whole like put my feet in the cement on a 20 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.159 hot take and be upset if I'm wrong. I like 21 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:03.960 the rest of the free world that picked the Oklahoma 22 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.239 City Thunder to win the NBA Championship. I picked them 23 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.640 in five, which means they've got to win four straight. 24 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:12.760 But I'll say right off the top, i hate the 25 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:17.079 Indiana Pacers and I'll always hate the Indiana Pacers. Little 26 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:24.040 PTSD working on it, therapy, reiki, healing, ayahuasca, just kidding, 27 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.120 whatever I need to do to get over my childhood 28 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:29.879 trauma of watching Reggie Miller torture my New York Knicks. 29 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.959 Although that's not an entirely accurate narrative. While I will 30 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.480 never cheer for this basketball team, I am so wildly 31 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:40.519 impressed with them. Rick Carlisle is doing a masterful job. 32 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.799 Tyree Saliburton, you know, was interesting watching the game last night. 33 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.879 We'll get to it on the program, the first three 34 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.719 and a half quarters. And I said this yesterday. I 35 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.120 think it was during Crosstock with Sean when he asked me, 36 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:54.959 you know, this whole debate about whether or not Tyree 37 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:59.879 Saliburton is a legitimate superstar. There are so many long 38 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.640 stretches where he just looks like one of the dudes 39 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.079 in their rotation, and then ultimately he just has this 40 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.639 ability to find a way to get it done when 41 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.719 the moment calls for it. And if that's not the 42 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.639 definition of a superstar player in pro basketball, I'm not 43 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:20.520 sure what is. Oklahoma City had them in a stranglehold 44 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.639 and just remarkable resilience from this group of players that 45 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:27.919 are very good and talented. Let's be clear, I mean 46 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.560 this narrative that they don't have talented players is incorrect. 47 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.560 But my goodness, Indiana once again snatches victory from the 48 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.639 jaws of defeat and they go up one zero in 49 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.199 the NBA Finals after beating OKC last night one to 50 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:43.360 eleven to one to ten. They did not have the 51 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.960 lead until point three seconds left in the game. Now, 52 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:49.080 if you're not familiar with the bio rhythms of NBA 53 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.280 schedule makers, now we wait and we wait, and we 54 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:55.639 wait and we wait two days between games. No reason 55 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.199 for that. In my opinion, Sunday will be game two. 56 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.280 That back at Paycom Center in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. That 57 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.560 crowd was awesome. The OKC crowd reminds me a little 58 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:07.560 bit of the Salt Lake crowd when the Jazz are good. 59 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.120 I know, kids, it's been a while. Hopefully it happens 60 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.560 again before we all die. But that building loud and 61 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:19.080 proud and crazy, but credit the Indiana Pacers. Sunday's game 62 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.759 will be a six o'clock mountain time tip on ABC 63 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:26.199 and then we go from there. The battle for Lord 64 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.639 Stanley's Cup resumes tonight. If you miss game one, holy smokes, 65 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:31.680 it was awesome, and tonight we'll see if we can 66 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.599 get the same type of feel, the same type of 67 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.840 intensity and passion, and hopefully overtime because over time the 68 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.080 Stanley Cup Playoffs rules Panthers Oilers tonight, six o'clock mountain 69 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:45.000 time drop of the Pucket Rogers Place in Edmonton, Alberta. 70 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.280 You can hear that game here on this radio station. 71 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.159 We are your home of both the Stanley Cup Finals 72 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.680 and the NBA Finals in the market, so keep that 73 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:56.840 in mind. Oilers up one zero rematch of last year's 74 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:59.400 Stanley Cup, which was awesome in and of itself. So 75 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:02.680 there we go. A lot to do on the program 76 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.719 today with the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Finals top 77 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.080 of mind, awareness little off season NBA news already the 78 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.560 proposed dramatic off season that people have discussed has already 79 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.519 begun and apparently the New York Knicks are looking to 80 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.160 speak with Jason Kidd, who currently is the head coach 81 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.120 of the Dallas Mavericks, who have the number one overall 82 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.360 pick in the NBA Draft. We'll talk about this. I'm 83 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:27.120 not sure that I see how this goes down. If 84 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.079 you're Dallas, you're asking for a lot. The Knicks do 85 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.879 not have draft compensation because they essentially utilized all of 86 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.920 it in the mckel Bridges trade. Only a few weeks 87 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.879 away from the NBA Draft, where Utah Jazz find themselves 88 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.160 with the number five and the number twenty one overall 89 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.800 pick in the first round, a couple second rounders to boot. 90 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:46.879 We'll see what the Jazz end up doing prior to 91 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.079 draft night, or if they stay at five and twenty 92 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.160 one and they look to just add a couple of 93 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:57.279 young pieces and hopefully have better talent evaluation at their disposal. 94 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:59.879 So far, the draft results over the past three off 95 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.040 seasons have been mixed at best. So we'll do some 96 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:07.160 Jazz offseason on the show today. RSL is idle this weekend, 97 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.120 which is probably a good thing because they don't seem 98 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.839 to be very good at soccer right now. Their next 99 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:14.519 game will be the fourteenth June the fourteenth, as rslill 100 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.279 take on DC United and then they only have one 101 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.720 other game this month. Diego Luna has made his way 102 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.680 to the US men's national team. With a little Cold 103 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:28.720 Cup action for Diego and RSL unable to add talent 104 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.279 until the summer transfer window, which opens I believe mid 105 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.240 July ish. How about Yankees Red Sox tonight she do 106 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:38.160 some more baseball as the summer kind of warms up. 107 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.519 We have the French Open going on. Carlos Akaraz is 108 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:43.639 in the final. That dude is just different, of course, 109 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.879 and we have a little French Open tennis as well. 110 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:49.319 The world of professional golf has their eye on the 111 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:53.800 RBC Canadian Open, and my guy Nick Taylor, proud Canadian, 112 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.959 has made a little move here. He is ten under. 113 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:59.639 He's right behind Cameron Champ who won a corn ferry 114 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.079 event in our market. We'll do a little golf on 115 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.920 the show today too. Off season college football news Utah 116 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.319 BYU style kind of idle right now. Most of the 117 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.040 off season college football storylines are surrounding the house of 118 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:16.199 the NCAA settlement, the proposed expansion of the CFP conferences, 119 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.279 fighting with each other NFL off season news. Good riddance. 120 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.399 Aaron Rodgers is a Steeler who gives a rip. So 121 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:24.600 there you go. A lot to do on the show, 122 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.319 good guest. Let's we'll start things off today with Christopher 123 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:31.079 mad Dog Russo. Mike and the mad Dog was the 124 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.199 first sports talk radio program I consumed as a youngster 125 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.199 growing up in the Northeast footprint, where it really was 126 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:41.120 the first kind of two man radio show format, where 127 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:44.240 that radio station took a risk to believe that people 128 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:48.240 would actually listen to two people talk about sports for 129 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.959 hours on end every day, and people did, and it 130 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.120 was a massive success. Chris is now on First Take 131 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.839 with Stephen A. Smith. I believe those are Wednesdays when 132 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.439 you see Chris Ru's daily show on Sirius XM does 133 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:04.600 major League baseball stuff. He's still doing it at very 134 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:08.800 high level. So we will bring in Chris Russo right 135 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.839 off the top today. We'll talk some NBA playoffs. I 136 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.360 know we have strong feelings on the NBA lottery where 137 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:18.079 the Jazz found themselves. I guess I'll say falling a fifth, 138 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.120 even though that was the most likely outcome with the 139 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.439 way the lottery is set up these days, we'll bring 140 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:26.279 in mad Dog right off the top today. Howard Back, 141 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.959 one of our favorites, talk some NBA on the program, 142 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:31.920 Zach Harper more NBA, NBA Daily CYS Style. My old 143 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.759 radio partner, Gordon Monson stops by longtime sports columnists from 144 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:39.720 the Salt Lake Tribune. I'm going to try to be 145 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.639 really nice to Gordon today. His daughter got married and 146 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.600 they went over to Hawaii for the ceremony, and I'm 147 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.560 sure Gordon did not appreciate this, but his wife, Lisa, 148 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.279 who I love. They're an awesome family, They're great people, 149 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:54.040 was sending out a bunch of videos and Gordon was 150 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.360 wearing a Foedora throughout the course of the ceremony. I'm 151 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.639 gonna try not to only talk about Monton in a 152 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:02.759 fedora today, but honestly, it's kind of the only thing 153 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:04.319 I want to ask him about, because my guess is 154 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.800 that was not his choice, that was probably handed to him. 155 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:10.720 He has five daughters who are all very beautiful and 156 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:13.199 very fashionable, and his wife looks like she's twenty years 157 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:15.240 younger than he is, and she's gorgeous. So my guess 158 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:17.959 is they were like, what do we do with dad? Well, 159 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:19.600 let's just hand him a Fedora and let's see if 160 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:21.759 he's able to pull that off. So when I saw 161 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:23.920 the video, I actually texted Porter, I'm like, dude, you 162 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.120 gotta get Gordon on the show so I can mock 163 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:29.240 him for his Fedora. Chris Russo, Howard Beck, Zach Harper, 164 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.079 Gordon Mont and me Spence check ats all of you 165 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.679 the great listeners that guy, Porter Larson. Have you ever 166 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.000 in your life warn of Fedora unironically or not for 167 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:37.879 a Halloween costs you? 168 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.919 No, not unironically, but I like to throw one on 169 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.080 for a bit. You don't strike me as a Fedora guy. Yeah, 170 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.840 I'm also not one who could pull it off if 171 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.240 it were, if it were a thing. So yeah, no, 172 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:52.440 no Fedora is in this house. All right, tell me this. 173 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.399 So last night I'm watching the game, watching the game, 174 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:58.519 and a couple buddies like, all right, Shay hits the layup. 175 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.679 I think they go up seven with about ninety seconds left, 176 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:03.720 and one of my buddies he's like, all right, that's done, 177 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.080 it's over. Not enough time. I said, Oh, you didn't 178 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.559 watch the next series. You didn't watch the Cavs series 179 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.320 or the Bucks series, Like I will own my pick, 180 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:13.480 and I still believe okay Se finds a way to 181 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.840 do this. But I am so wildly impressed with the 182 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.559 Indiana Pacers, even though I cannot stand team. 183 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.600 It's pretty it's pretty remarkable. I mean, the way that 184 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.840 they're winning games and the way that they're staying in 185 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:32.240 games until you just give Tyrese Haliburton the ball on 186 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:38.919 the last possession. It's it's fun to watch. It's probably 187 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:41.600 unprecedented as far as the amount we're seeing it in 188 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.960 the postseason. And he did it a bunch of the 189 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.799 regular season two where the Pacers just stay close and 190 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:51.960 then Tyrese Haliburton hit a last second shot. Now it 191 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:55.360 wasn't all Tyree's. He had a you know, a kind 192 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:58.639 of run of the mill game for him. Andrew Nemhard, Yeah, 193 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:03.440 you know, good pick and role player, fine defender, although 194 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.720 a little undersized, but there are moments in big games 195 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.279 where he turns into Alan Iverson at the end of 196 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.519 a possession. And man, it's a lot of fun to 197 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.399 watch because they are going to turn this into a 198 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.759 series that I don't think a lot of us expected 199 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.279 coming in. 200 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.399 I said yesterday, I'll take OKC in five. But the 201 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.039 basketball fan and me just wants good basketball in a 202 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.679 long series. So if game won's any indicator, maybe we'll 203 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.320 get that, all right, Chris mad Dog Russo our first 204 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.960 guest on this beautiful Friday afternoon. 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Hyundai Utah's number one 243 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.360 Hyundai dealer experience outdoor concerts in the heart of downtown 244 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:18.039 Salt Lake City's Granary District. Find more details on ESPN 245 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.840 seven under sports dot com. Last Night, Game one NBA Finals. 246 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.879 Don't forget mad Dog Russo of First Take Fame and 247 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:26.559 Mike and the Mad Dog Fame will be our first 248 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.320 guest on this Friday Game one NBA Finals Oklahoma City, 249 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.799 and it really, in a lot of ways was kind 250 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:35.840 of fitting the script that most people thought it would. 251 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:40.200 Early on, we talked about the potential of certainly Indiana 252 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:44.320 looking nervy and playing a little bit loose for a 253 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:47.039 young roster that's never been to the NBA Finals. Now 254 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.360 OKC certainly as a young roster that's also been never 255 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.559 been this far together, and they play a lot of 256 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.360 young players, and Mark Dagnold decided to sit Isaiah Hartenstein 257 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.799 and start Case and Wallace. I don't think he's gonna 258 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:02.440 do that again. I'll tell you why later on. And 259 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:06.559 Indiana certainly looked like the nervous team, a tremendous amount 260 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.039 of turnovers and ugly turnovers too. Now, remember, as we 261 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.399 talked about yesterday, Oklahoma City does a lot of things 262 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.840 really well, but one of the main reasons they have 263 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.440 been historic in their performance this year, already winning eighty 264 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.679 plus games, a net that, ultimately, when you look at 265 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.080 the way Oklahoma City beat teams all year long, their 266 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.360 net quite literally was historic. Every one of the metrics 267 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.399 that Oklahoma City has, both on offense and defense, indicated 268 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.600 historic team. Their average margin of victory this year, which 269 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.840 is what net is and differential, is plus twelve point nine. 270 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.240 Just to give you some perspective, the second highest NET 271 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.879 in the West this year was Minnesota plus five. Okay, 272 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:49.279 the highest net in the East was Cleveland plus nine 273 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:51.519 point five, which is really good, but plus twelve point 274 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:53.799 nine when you are beating teams on an average of 275 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:57.480 thirteen points to night, you are historically good. Top five offense, 276 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.519 top five defense. All the metrics and the data, sorry 277 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.080 people don't want data, whatever it is ultimately indicate that 278 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.440 this is a historically special team that should win the 279 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.440 World Championship. And I still believe they're going to. But 280 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.240 the thing that they really do that makes them stand 281 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.200 out among their peers, it's two tiered. They force you 282 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.320 to turn the ball over and they take care of 283 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.720 the basketball themselves. And then typically what they do is 284 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:24.960 they capitalize on your turnovers to get points off of them. 285 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.360 They did not do that last night. Okay, So Indiana 286 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:33.000 they did finish with twenty four turnovers. I believe that 287 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.399 was the number, twenty four turnovers, but twenty of them 288 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.279 came in the first half, so they really really had 289 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.600 a loose start to the game. Then they settled in 290 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.159 and the second half and started taking care of the basketball. 291 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.200 The problem is if you're Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City turned 292 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:53.879 their twenty four turnovers into eleven points. Eleven points off 293 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.320 at twenty four turnovers. It feels like that's a fake 294 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.559 stat because if you get twenty four extra possessions, and 295 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.120 if you just times that by two, and you're not 296 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.440 gonna get a bucket off of every possession but forty 297 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:06.919 eight points, you know, at least you want to get 298 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.480 twenty five to thirty points off of twenty four turnovers. 299 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.480 And that's at least they got eleven points off of 300 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.639 Indiana's turnovers. So I'm watching the game last night, and 301 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.200 it ultimately existed in this space where Oklahoma City was 302 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:23.600 up between like eight and thirteen for like forty minutes 303 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.159 or whatever it was, and that's where the game existed, 304 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.120 but every time, the turnovers continue to pile up, and 305 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.679 Oklahoma City was unable to capitalize on those turnovers. And 306 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.960 Rick Carlisle said this himself at halftime. It's like, look, 307 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.000 the bad news is we can't take care of the basketball. 308 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.159 The good news is we're still within shouting distance because 309 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.000 quite honestly, they should have been down twenty to twenty 310 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:47.600 five at halftime and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City should have 311 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.559 won that game by twenty points last night. There's no 312 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.840 other way to put it. If Indiana is going to 313 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:54.919 be that loose with the basketball, you have to turn 314 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:58.000 those turnovers into points. Now. Remember the other thing we 315 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.879 talked about is when Mark Dagnault go small, he relies 316 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.799 on his wings to go get rebounds, and he has 317 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.480 good rebounding wings. You know, uh Lou Dort last night, 318 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.240 you know a couple of big time offensive rebounds in 319 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.960 the first quarter. Shay can rebound well for a guard. 320 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.120 Jalen's a big bodied guard. Cason Wallace is not. I'll 321 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:18.720 get back to this, Like I said, I don't think 322 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.759 the Cason Wallace thing and the starting lineup is going 323 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.759 to work for Mark dagnol We'll see what he does 324 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.879 you're bringing Caruso off the bench. He's a good rebounding guard. 325 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.799 But last night Indiana out rebounds Oklahoma City fifty six 326 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.960 to thirty nine. Because Mark Dadnold decided he was going small, 327 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.519 he was going to be stubborn, and Rick Carlisle, to 328 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.480 his credit, did not do that. And actually Indiana got 329 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.840 the rebounding from their guards in a way that Oklahoma 330 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.240 City did not. Aaron Ne Smith had twelve rebounds last night, 331 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.679 Tyrese Halliburton had ten rebounds last night, and Pascal Siakam 332 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.799 had ten as well. Miles Turner, their starting center, was 333 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.879 their third or excuse me, their fourth leading rebounder with nine. 334 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.679 Because the guards rebounded so well, that allows Indiana to 335 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.279 play small. And if Oklahoma City's going to be stubborn 336 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.359 and do that, they need more energy on the glass 337 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.880 from Chet, who only had six rebounds. It was a 338 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.880 bad check game last night. He only played twenty four 339 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.640 minutes because they were staggering minutes between Hart and Stein 340 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.119 and Chet. I think that's going to change. Caruso was 341 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.759 solid off the bench because he always is. This comes 342 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.160 down to one thing, though, and this is not something 343 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.000 you can measure. If you're an analytical guy who measures 344 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.079 basketball with your calculator, and this is more of a 345 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.119 ancillary and tangible. This is just a group that will 346 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.359 not stop until there are zeros on the clock. And 347 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.279 that sounds pining the sky kind of corny. There are 348 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.839 plenty of teams in pro basketball that when the rubber 349 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.960 meets the road, they feel like they're beaten, they're done. 350 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:49.359 It's one, two, three, cancun and for Rick Carlile to 351 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:51.720 be able to instill the belief in his players, and 352 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.519 it is based off of results. Because Tyree Saliburton talked 353 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.559 about this after the game, It's not just what they 354 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.880 did last night. It's not just what they did to 355 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.400 the Knicks. It's not just what they did to the 356 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.000 Cavs or the Bucks. I mean, they've sent Giannis home, 357 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.079 Donovan home, Jalen Brunson home, and I don't think they're 358 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.519 gonna send SGA home. But they have the one zero elite. 359 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.519 But it's not just what they've done in the postseason. 360 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.599 This is who they've been since January. Since the start 361 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.359 of January, the two best teams in Pro basketball Number 362 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.359 one Oklahoma City Thunder, Number two the Indiana Pacers. These 363 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.759 are the two best teams in the NBA since January. 364 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:31.519 I just don't know how many teams, how many people 365 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.640 are paying attention. This is who they've been, it's who 366 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.319 they are now. A couple things last night that I 367 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.599 completely completely whipped on. Porter referenced Andrew Nemhard's play in 368 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.319 the fourth quarter. Now, aaron Ne Smith clearly has a 369 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:47.799 little bit of an ankle thing still, even though he 370 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.559 was a dog last night as well. But Rick Carlisle 371 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.880 threw Andrew Nemhard on Tyree's or excuse me on Shae 372 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:57.079 Gilgess Alexander in the fourth quarter to give aaron Ne 373 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.359 Smith a bit of a break and nemhar get up 374 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.359 about five inches de Sga. But that dude is a 375 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.640 pit bull. I mean, I love the way he plays. 376 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.119 He just gets up in you and he lets you 377 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.960 know I'm gonna be here all night. So for all 378 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.720 the conversation about the Tyres Saliburton game winner, and Tyrese 379 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.759 deserves it, five either game winning or game tying shots 380 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.839 with less than five seconds less than the playoffs. Okay, 381 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.880 if you go back to nineteen ninety seven, since nineteen 382 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.200 ninety seven, now this is a convenient way to frame 383 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.400 it because nineteen ninety seven was the last year of 384 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.960 Peake Michael Jordan, as Jazz fans know. But since nineteen 385 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:38.000 ninety seven, Lebron James has eight game tying or game 386 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.119 you know, giving your team the lead shots are in 387 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.720 the final five seconds of a playoff game. Lebron has eight. 388 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.440 In second place is Reggie Miller with five and Tyrese 389 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.079 Saliburton with five, and Tyrese hasn't played near the amount 390 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.680 of playoff games that those two have played, let alone. 391 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:59.079 All the other people in that conversation, namely Kobe being Bryant, 392 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.720 was surprised that he wasn't on the list. So certainly 393 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.880 Halliburton came up clutch last night, but prior to Halliburton's 394 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.000 game winning shot, he was a wallflower. This is why 395 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.720 this debate about Halliburton is interesting. And I guess when 396 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.119 it comes to your definition of a superstar, we can 397 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.440 reasonable minds can disagree. But one of the reasons why, 398 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.039 And by the way, I'm still in this space where 399 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.519 I don't view Halliburton on the level of Jokic or 400 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:28.119 Jannis or Luca or Sga, like he is not one 401 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.599 of those players. Okay, if you ask any roster constructor 402 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.839 in pro basketball name the players that you would most 403 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.039 want to start your franchise with, Tyrese would not be 404 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:40.319 listed alongside other than some of the other names I 405 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.400 just mentioned. And last night was an indicator. As I'm 406 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.079 watching the game, I'm like, where is he? You're too 407 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.359 good to be a wallflower. He was rebounding and he's 408 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.200 not a great defender. He was doing his best to 409 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.759 keep up because Oklahoma City was doing everything they could 410 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.359 to put Halliburton in their primary ball screen action to 411 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.039 make sure that A it's a better matchup for Shay 412 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.200 and b you make sure that Tyrese is tired down 413 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.319 the stretch. But he didn't score his first points until 414 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:11.119 like three minutes left in the first I don't even 415 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:13.880 think he got a shot off. And certainly, being a 416 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.000 star player, and if you're a league guard, it's much 417 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.839 more than scoring. And like I said, he had ten 418 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.640 boards and six assists, only three turnovers in thirty nine 419 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.720 minutes against that defense as a lead guard is a 420 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.480 good number. But I'm watching all game, I'm like, where 421 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.400 is he? You know, we're seeing Miles Turner in a 422 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.559 lot of action, We're seeing Pascal Siakum and once again 423 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:35.759 was really good and Siakam is a great player. But 424 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.119 I'm waiting for Haliburton to kind of show up, and 425 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.079 sure enough down the stretch, as this eight to twelve 426 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:46.559 point lead starts to dwindle and Oklahoma City goes more 427 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.400 or less ISO for either Sha or Jalen, and they 428 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.000 start missing some of the mid range shots and Nemhard 429 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.359 hits his step back three against Shay when he shakes him, 430 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.279 and it was really nice. I'm going, all right, this 431 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.920 is kind of setting itself up one again for a 432 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.559 tyresse Halliburton moment which lead us, which leads us to 433 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.519 the final stanza where Shay was being guarded by Nemhard. 434 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.400 He gets some separation and it's a great look. And 435 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.759 for all the love Indiana deserves about their never say 436 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.559 die attitude, the luck that they have been receiving, I 437 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.920 mean the Halliburton game winner against the Knicks that went 438 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.400 off the back iron, It bounced up like thirty feet. 439 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:30.079 The TV camera lost it, and Shay gilgess Alexander when 440 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.680 he gets to that spot free throw line extended about 441 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.119 fourteen to fifteen feet away from the bucket. That is cash. 442 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.720 That's the look you want, but he misses it. He 443 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.000 goes along. Halliburton gets the rebound, and I said, right 444 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:45.599 away when I saw that, it was Cason Wallace who 445 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.920 picked him up. And look, Cason Wallace is a good 446 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:51.119 defensive player. I'm not saying he's not. But if Rick 447 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.799 Carlyle calls a time out, they get the rebound with 448 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:58.000 ten seconds left, they instantly find Tyrese. He dribbles it 449 00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.400 up and Cason picks him up. And when I'm sure 450 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.279 Rick Carlisle thought this, when Rick saw that it was 451 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:08.799 Casein and not Lou Dort, who fights over screens, by 452 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.759 the way, like he's a defensive end evading offensive lineman. 453 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:16.799 It's amazing watching this dude guard and Tyreese couldn't do 454 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.200 anything if Dort was the primary defender. But when Rick 455 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:24.119 saw that it was Casin, no timeout, go ahead, guard 456 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.440 Tyree Saliburton with Cason Wallace, who again is a good 457 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.720 on ball defender. But Tyres is bigger than he is. 458 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.000 And if you go back and watch the replay, it 459 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:33.799 was bad defense from Cason. That's too much space to 460 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.920 give tyre Saliburton. Now give Tyree's credit for shaking him 461 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.160 and getting a couple of feet, but right when I 462 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.960 saw that, because when Tyres has space, he's dangerous. He 463 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:45.799 just has this weird little hitch push a set shot 464 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.759 where it's tough for him to get space unless he 465 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:51.240 they go one four flat and he's able to get 466 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.079 some penetration with a step back. There was a cut 467 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.920 from the right side that essentially drug Caruso close to 468 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.519 the baseline, so Caruso didn't hedge out and help the 469 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.119 case in, gave him too much space, and boom knocks 470 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.559 down the mid range jumper point three seconds left. For 471 00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:09.680 all intents and purposes, game over. That building was stunned, 472 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.480 and it was remarkable to watch Indiana do it again, 473 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.799 five comebacks while being down fifteen points in the fourth quarter, 474 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.559 like they're breaking every single record prior to last night, 475 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.559 when teams were down nine in the final three minutes 476 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.240 of an NBA Finals game since nineteen seventy one oh 477 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:32.559 and one eighty two. Every single time Indiana does this, 478 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.680 the stats and Info department comes up with a stat 479 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.559 where you're kind of like, wait, no one has ever 480 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.359 done what they've done before. This is a historic run, 481 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.079 even if it doesn't end in a championship. But you 482 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.920 know what, it just might it might be their year. 483 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.119 All right, Briday's show rolled along here in downtown Salt 484 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:50.240 Lake City, Utah. Our next guest, I like to call 485 00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:54.200 him a friend, but a mentor. First and foremost best 486 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:57.079 known I don't know these days Chris Russo, Mad Dog 487 00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.839 of course, mister Russo best known for me with my 488 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.920 the Mad Dog. My question out of the gates these days, 489 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.799 what do you get recognized for the most first take? 490 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.640 Okay, no question about it's ben Soir first take. You know, 491 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.160 if I'm in New York, little Mike and the Mad 492 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.680 Dog too, because you just said as a nineteen year show. 493 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.920 But as far as the overall thing, if I'm bouncing 494 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:21.119 around a little first take, that would be the one 495 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.319 in the power of television see today, that would definitely 496 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.720 be the one. Serious is a little different because it's 497 00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.480 you know, sort of a it's a it's a little nischy. 498 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.039 So if am mass standpoint now, everybody kind of puts 499 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.880 everything together right away, takes. 500 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:37.880 Some a minute or two. 501 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.279 The riders, Oh yeah, that's the guy. Mike and the 502 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.440 Mad Dogs saw me plenty of times. It's different, and 503 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:44.599 of course the first take you're on there constantly, so 504 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.039 those the first take one is by far the best. 505 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.880 Okay, then, yeah, that makes sense. And I certainly tune 506 00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:52.519 in when you're on that show, and I'm glad you 507 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:54.319 brought that up. And I should lead with thank you 508 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.279 so much for your time. You're very kind of do this. 509 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.519 It's been too long. Every time I watch you on 510 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.000 first Take, I have this thought like, is it is 511 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.000 it different or is it similar to the way you 512 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.400 and Mike approached the show back in the day, Because 513 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.880 a lot of people don't necessarily remember, in my opinion, 514 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.079 you guys were the origin of what the modern day 515 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.039 debate shows have become. So this is not a new 516 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:19.680 thing for you. Is doing first take different or is 517 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:21.319 it similar to what you did with Mike and the 518 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:22.440 Mad Dog back in the day. 519 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:23.960 No, it's similar. 520 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:28.440 Yeah, it's you know, it's a little bit more specific 521 00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.839 on a topic. It's not as you know, the Mike 522 00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.440 and the Mad Dog thing would do anything. It's it's 523 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:39.440 a little bit more NBA NFL dominated. But and you 524 00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:41.680 got more than just two people in there, because it's 525 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.440 very rarely just Steve and I. You know, sometimes it's 526 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:46.640 you know, it could be football season. You got two 527 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.039 or three different guys in their base a basketball season, 528 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.759 you got two three different guys in there, so it's 529 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.519 it's very rarely just at two of us. It's more 530 00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.559 of a trilogy per se. So I from that standpoint, 531 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:01.720 it is a little different. But the from that from 532 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:03.680 the amount of people. But I mean, the idea is 533 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.599 the same. The idea is to move the needle. The 534 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.839 idea is to give obviously your opponent a chance to talk. 535 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.640 Your idea is to you know, give your opinion and 536 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:18.039 hopefully it's organic enough and hopefully it's a situation where 537 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.640 it's spurs debate, and hopefully it's opposite with your opponent. 538 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:24.839 In this case, Steve passed. 539 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.279 In other words, I might have one opinion, and if 540 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:29.559 it really works properly, it would be nice if Steve 541 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.160 had the other opinion and Mike and I the same 542 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.720 scenario too. So I think there's you know, listen, debate 543 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.119 shows on TV came from duet shows on radio, so 544 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.279 it's the same theme. There are some intricacies that are a 545 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.440 little different. You want to talk a little quicker on TV, 546 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.680 you want to be eating out a little quicker. Radio 547 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.839 is a little bit more of a filibuster element to it. 548 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.720 But I mean it's the same idea holds both ways, 549 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.400 same idea holds both ways. 550 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.759 Chris Russo, I'm sorry, you're good and finish good. 551 00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:04.039 No, just have an opinion. I've that's the most important thing, 552 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:06.559 to go out there and have an opinion and be 553 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.920 you know, part of being good on radio or TV. 554 00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:11.319 Is being a salesman. 555 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.519 You want to be able to sell your opinion even 556 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.039 if you think or even if people don't think it's right. 557 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:17.960 You want to make a good case for it. And 558 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:19.559 for the most part, you try to do that a 559 00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:21.839 little more so on TV than you do on radio, 560 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.160 but youre trying to make a good case. 561 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.200 For it, for sure. Chris Russo, better known as the 562 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.519 Mad Dog, as our guests here on ESPN seven hundred 563 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.960 out of a Friday afternoon. You know, mister Russo, I'm gonna 564 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.960 call you that all interview long. Probably you were one 565 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.920 of the first people I thought about when the news 566 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.839 came down that the New York Knicks had fired Tom Thibodeau. 567 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:41.079 And it just has been so long since they've been 568 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.680 relevant at all. And you know, four Playoffs appearances in 569 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.000 five years back to back fifty win seasons for the 570 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.839 first time since ninety four ninety five, first Eastern Conference 571 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:55.039 appearance since two thousand and It's been so fun for 572 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.200 me to watch this team rise to relevance again and 573 00:28:58.279 --> 00:28:59.880 reconnect with a lot of my friends that I grew 574 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:02.720 up up with back Eastern Southern Connecticut and the surrounding area. 575 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.920 And no part of me thought that he was in 576 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.880 danger of losing his job. And I will allow and 577 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.039 concede that I think he was probably up coach in 578 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.400 the Eastern Conference Finals by one of the best coaches 579 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.359 in pro basketball who's now in the NBA Finals. That 580 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.519 we'll get to the finals in a moment. But what 581 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.839 was your reaction when you heard the news that Tom 582 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.119 had lost his job? And now that's been a few days. 583 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:24.480 Why do you think it happened, and who do you 584 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:25.640 think was behind the decision? 585 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.880 Well, I listen, I never trust the owner, so I 586 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.599 was you know, you never know of him, that's of course, 587 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.279 Jim Dolan, you know, But I'm with you. After they 588 00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:38.079 beat Detroit, you figured they'd be in good shape. He 589 00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.359 would have actually been better off if they lost at 590 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.920 Game seven of Boston in a classic series. Tatan doesn't 591 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.720 get hurt, then beating the Celtics, wetting everybody's appetite, and 592 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.680 then losing to Indiana the whole series and maybe this 593 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.920 next one will be that way as well with Oka. See, 594 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.680 but the whole series obviously turned on the whole situation 595 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.720 with the with the with Game one with the fourteenth 596 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.960 point lead, and the Natesmith making all those threes there 597 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.960 and the you know, in the last thirty to fifty 598 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.680 eight seconds of that game, and then of course the 599 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.359 two miss vetos and the shot that Halburton took that 600 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.559 bounced high and went in, and then overtime. The whole 601 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.519 series changed with that. 602 00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:17.599 If the Knicks had won. 603 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.960 That game, they would have been a minimum seventh game, 604 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.000 and I think they would have probably won the series 605 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:24.000 because I don't know if they would have lost the 606 00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:26.480 back to back game seven at home. So but once 607 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.240 he beat the Pistons, I thought he was okay. Once 608 00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.799 he beat the Celtics, whoever thought he'd be And remember 609 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:34.359 the Tatum injury had nothing to do with it, because 610 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.480 you're up three one when he got hurt. Once they 611 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.960 beat Boston, I thought that he was in great shape. 612 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:41.559 I thought they beat Indiana, I thought it would be a. 613 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:42.480 Very close series. 614 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.720 I wouldn't stake my life on it, but I thought 615 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.279 that they would not lose back to back game sevens 616 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:50.079 at home to the Pacers, So I thought they'd win 617 00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.319 that series. But you know, listen, I think it's a 618 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:54.279 it's a group thing. 619 00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:55.160 First off, Dolan. 620 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:57.960 Nobody makes a decision regarding the knicks of the Rangers 621 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.880 of the head coach without going through Dolan. 622 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:01.119 First. 623 00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:02.599 He's, hey, you got to write a check for thirty 624 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.960 million dollars and because you got to pay him off, 625 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.559 And you know, you can make the argument that Dolan 626 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.759 made this form more than anybody else. A lot of 627 00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:13.759 people tell me that worldwide, wess who what? 628 00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:14.480 Who the hell is? 629 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:14.680 See? 630 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.039 Who knows? He's sort of an influencer. 631 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.240 Brought Kenny Payne to Louisville, had that workout. A lot 632 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:21.880 of people think he had something to do with it, 633 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.160 because it was no secret that he and Thibodeau couldn't 634 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.000 stand each other. And then he had Leon Rose, who 635 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:30.000 you know, listens, got a lot on the line here. 636 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:32.920 You know, made a band, say with Bridges, but he 637 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.400 was the former agent for Thibodeaux, you know, I mean know, 638 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:38.880 maybe he has I don't. 639 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.400 It's really kind of hard to figure why. 640 00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:45.319 First off, it's a stupid decision, and Leon Rose has 641 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.359 made good decisions. Dolan has stayed out of it for 642 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.839 the most part. It appears in the last couple of years, 643 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.359 so why would he get involved now? And Worldwide messages 644 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.799 Worldwide Wes is not really in that decisive decision making, 645 00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:05.759 so it is tricky to pin it on anybody, but 646 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.640 his is it. I would said if Jim Dolan wanted 647 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.240 Tom Thibodeau to be his head coach, he would have 648 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:14.920 told Rose and Worldwide West guys, nice guys, just as 649 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.559 you said Spence back to back Eastern back to back 650 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.000 fifty one years, I mean Eastern Conference final. I mean 651 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:22.960 there's only two teams in the NBA who had better 652 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:23.720 years that we did. 653 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:24.799 Why not fire him? 654 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.799 And he did not say that, So he's culpable too. 655 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.400 And I think the fact that the Knicks are going 656 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.400 to try to convince somehow, some way Jason Kidd in 657 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.039 Dallas to come to New York tells you that they 658 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.359 don't really have a plan B. I mean, their number 659 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.519 one guy to replace Thibodeaux is an existing head coach 660 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.920 signed to a big contract. I mean, that's their number 661 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:48.559 one guy. That's a little lot who's going to coach 662 00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.319 Cooper Flagg and you're gonna have to give him compensation 663 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.000 to get them. That is a little odd. 664 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.319 So the next look terrible. 665 00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.440 Here they did a bad job. The whole world knows 666 00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:59.480 it was stupid. Thiberdeau's did a. 667 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.000 Hell of a job. 668 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:02.119 You want to say Carl out was a little better, 669 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.440 all right, Well, then he was also better than Atkinson. 670 00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:06.319 He was also better than Doc Rivers, and now he 671 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.880 might be better than dyk No, so let's keep that 672 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.480 in mind too. But nobody in New York can quite 673 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.000 figure it out. Everybody realizes this is a decision that 674 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.680 was kind of difficult to stomach. So I feel badforit. Tiboto, 675 00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.960 he's out of a coach or see if he runs 676 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.599 out of it again down the road. And I heard 677 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.279 he's very down on what happened here. I think he 678 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:27.880 was definitely surprised. I don't think he saw this coming, 679 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.920 and nor did anybody else. By the way, here in 680 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:30.880 New York City. 681 00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:33.799 It's almost like, don't look a gift horse in the 682 00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:38.440 mouth like this for the first time, mister Rousseau, the 683 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:41.880 Knicks seemed to have played the long game and built 684 00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.680 up a team that had something to say about things 685 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.799 in the Eastern Conference for a while, if they just 686 00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:52.359 allowed this process to continue, and what essentially made them 687 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.920 more or less irrelevant in the landscape of pro basketball 688 00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.720 for nearly two decades, if not a little more, was 689 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:02.240 impulsive emotion decision making from an owner that doesn't know 690 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:04.319 his elbow from as you know what. And I thought, 691 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.480 to your point, go build your sphere, go play your kazoo, 692 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.199 go be in your band, stay out of it. Let 693 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.000 the grown ups run the team. And this, to me 694 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.920 is a couple of steps in the wrong direction. And 695 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.360 it just reeks of Isaiah Thomas, Mike D'Antoni, Derek Fisher, 696 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.920 Kurt Rambus, Jeff horniseack like and all of those people 697 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.519 are you know, solid guys, and some are good coaches. 698 00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:27.199 And Mike Woodson did a good job for a minute 699 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.199 there in New York. But it's almost like they reverted 700 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.400 back to the emotional decision making that made them irrelevant 701 00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.519 for two decades after you finally built something up. And 702 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.840 we'll see what happens moving forward, because the roster is 703 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:42.679 still solid and they have a lot of good players. 704 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.239 But these types of decisions are exactly why they were 705 00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.880 basically irrelevant for nearly twenty five years, you know. 706 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:53.000 A hundred percent. And I actually think Indiana was better 707 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:56.400 than the Knicks a player for player. I think the 708 00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.320 Knicks may have had, you know, the you know, with 709 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.000 Brunson in Towns, you could say they had the two 710 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:02.840 of the three best players. But I think if you 711 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.960 look at the whole lobster bench, of course included, although 712 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.760 in the Indiana's a little better. But yeah, this is 713 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.239 a very puzzling decision. And Leon Rose doesn't make a 714 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.280 lot of bad ones, so that he hasn't at least 715 00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.119 and he hasn't been impetuous, as. 716 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:18.599 You just said. 717 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:21.679 So that makes me think that somebody must have told 718 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.559 him here something was going on, because he hasn't made 719 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.519 these bad decisions with his coaches. He hired the right 720 00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:29.159 guy and he let a coach for five years and 721 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.639 they were successful. So all of a sudden Leon gets 722 00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:34.039 over it. I mean, it is a little shan he's 723 00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.639 his former agent. It is very strange. I do know 724 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:41.440 that that Thibodeau and Worldwide West did not like each other. 725 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.119 Worldwide West has done nothing in his career, no rings, 726 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.679 he hasn't won any college championships, He's never built a team, 727 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.639 so the fact that but he's you know, he works 728 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.719 for Rose so you wouldn't think he'd go over Roses 729 00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:58.280 head go right to Dolan. So that's why it's very puzzling. 730 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.239 It's a very very strange decision. Nobody here can quite 731 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.639 figure it out. You know, where they go now for 732 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.719 a head coach? I mean again, you know, I don't 733 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:09.880 think they want Mike Brown. I don't think they want 734 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:14.840 Mike Malone. You know, I thought maybe Billy Donovan because 735 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.199 he would be maybe easier to get. We'll see what kid. 736 00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:19.840 They know they're not getting the Houston coach. 737 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:20.679 Uh. 738 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:22.920 You know, why would Dallas allow the Knicks to have 739 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.639 kid without compensation? Knicks have no draft picks to give them. Now, 740 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:28.760 why would kid want to leave Dallas anyway? I mean, 741 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.800 they got Cooper Flanner coming there for crying out loud. 742 00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.079 He got to me seventeen years old. I mean, the 743 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.480 guy might be an old timer, so why would you 744 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:37.679 leave coaching him? I know the Eastern Conference is a 745 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.239 little easier at least next year, but why would you 746 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:42.000 leave that to come to work for Dolean. 747 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.159 I would never do it, so we'll see where they go. 748 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.599 But everybody puzzled, and it was a decision that reverberates 749 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:51.960 that it makes the Knicks look bad. Just as you said, 750 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.760 they haven't made a lot of bad decisions, and here 751 00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.679 they made a bad so one hundred percent right. 752 00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.360 One more thing here, And I do want to talk 753 00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.440 NBA Finals with your mad dog before I said loose, 754 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.039 because I do think you know. The messaging as far 755 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.119 as the statement goes. And then other sources that have 756 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.880 leaked information across the landscape of the past few days 757 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.119 is well, we want to take the next step, we 758 00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:14.800 want to win a championship. I could make the argument 759 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.599 that this Nick team was ahead of schedule by beating Boston. 760 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:20.760 I feel like they were put together with the idea 761 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.440 of Boston maybe having one or two more years and 762 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.239 then they're going to have to break their roster down 763 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.880 because the new ownership group probably doesn't want to ride 764 00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.360 a luxury tax check of five hundred million dollars just 765 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:32.119 to have the team. And so when the Celtics are 766 00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:33.960 broken down that I felt like this Nick team was 767 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.639 ready to take that step. So I really think Tom 768 00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:38.920 actually brought them ahead of schedule this year going to 769 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:41.920 the Eastern Conference Finals. But I think if they want 770 00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.119 to win a championship, they have a roster construction issue 771 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:46.639 they have to figure out, and I think it comes 772 00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.239 down to Cat. Now, Kat just played some of the 773 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.079 best basketball that I've ever seen him play in the spring. Okay, 774 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.119 so I want to give him credit for that. But defensively, 775 00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.440 I mean, we talk a lot about Nie Smith making 776 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.920 his threes in Game one. Those were walking practice threes 777 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.280 with not a lot of defensive pushback, and more often 778 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.679 than not, the only time I thought the Knicks had 779 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.519 a chance in the series is when they were actually guarding. Now, 780 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:12.119 this is not a team in the ILK of nineteen 781 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.159 ninety five. Charles Oakley's not walking through that door, et cetera, 782 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.599 et cetera. But I think if they want to take 783 00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:19.800 the next step, they've got a roster issue, and I 784 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:21.559 think it comes down to Cat. Do you think they 785 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.400 look at a deal for a Durant or a deal 786 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.079 for a Giannis? I mean, even Lowry markin out here 787 00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:29.480 in Salt Lake is available. I'm not saying that makes sense, 788 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.920 But if they want to take the next step, it 789 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:35.800 doesn't matter if their coaches Tom Thibodeau, Jason Kidd, whoever. 790 00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.239 I think they have a roster construction issue. Do you 791 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:41.199 think they adjust and pivot with their personnel this offseason? 792 00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.079 Well, I don't think Giannis is coming here, so that's 793 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.679 number one. I think if the Bucks, the Bucks won't 794 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.760 call Anthony Towns. I mean, I wouldn't want call Anthony 795 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.679 Towns to build my franchise around. That is not what 796 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:56.719 I would want. So from that standpoint, I think if 797 00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:00.159 he goes anywhere, it might be Dispersed or Toronto. So 798 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.320 I'm not in love with getting that. And You're right, 799 00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:06.840 the roster is where it is. I don't know exactly 800 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.480 what they can. They have no draft picks. Based on 801 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:12.360 that Bridger's trade, they only got a five I don't 802 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:14.760 pay too much attention to this capologist nonsense, but they 803 00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.679 only got a five and a half million dollar mid 804 00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.199 level exception. And the other thing you got to remember 805 00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:21.639 with the next what would they bring in here? 806 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:21.880 Ever? 807 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.599 Bring ever they bring in here? Next year they go 808 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.920 they're gonna get to the finals. I mean, you can't 809 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.119 bring somebody here to lose in the conference final. What's 810 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.599 the point of doing that and next year the East 811 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:35.760 is gonna be very easy. And so as a result, 812 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:37.719 if you somehow don't get to the final next year, 813 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.920 you did, I mean, the Celtics don't have Tatum, Lillard's 814 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:44.800 not playing for Milwaukee and beide, who knows. Uh, you know, 815 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.199 you got Cleveland, We'll see how they respond, and you 816 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:50.719 got Indiana. I mean, there's nobody else East thinks. So 817 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:54.360 that puts an awful lot of pressure on a coach 818 00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:57.400 coming in here knowing that he'd better get to an 819 00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.840 NBA final if he doesn't want to hear from the fans. So, 820 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:02.639 I mean, I think they're in a little bit of 821 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:04.960 a tough spot. I completely agree, and I think they 822 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.360 put more pressure on themselves with this decision, which I 823 00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.119 think is it puts It's gonna make everybody say, well, 824 00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:13.320 now you fire Thibodau and he even gets to the final, 825 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:15.400 how come the next guy loses in the second round, 826 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.880 how does he stay? So I think that plays into two. 827 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:21.559 Remember before Thibodeau, they had twelve coaches. 828 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.559 I'm sorry, they won one playoff. 829 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:26.760 I think it was twelve. In the last twenty five years, 830 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.679 they've had twelve coaches. They won one playoff series. You know, 831 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:33.199 Larry Brown and Derek Fisher and David Fizdale and you know, 832 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:33.880 go on No. 833 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:33.800 No. 834 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.599 One playoff series with Thibodeau. They won five. 835 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:40.800 So I mean, the next guy next year is gonna 836 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:42.559 have to win three. I don't know what the knickt 837 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.519 solution is. I think they're a good team. I think 838 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.559 they're a tough team, but I don't think necessarily they 839 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.159 are a championship team. And let's as we swing to 840 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.800 Indiana quickly, let's remember this too. Maybe Indiana and losing 841 00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:57.039 to them is not gonna be such a big deal. 842 00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.199 I mean, maybe they beat Oklahoma City, and maybe they 843 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.320 beat oklahomas and easier than they beat the Knicks after 844 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:04.840 what we saw in Game one, where they continually do 845 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.719 these miracle pullbacks and win these crazy games. And you know, 846 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.960 I wasn't not impressed in Olahoma City last night. Who 847 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.679 gave up, by the way, sixty something points in the 848 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.119 second half. I'm allowed Indiana to shoot fifty two percent. 849 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:18.239 So the idea that no. 850 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:20.079 Listen, Okay, see constuc mback and win. 851 00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.480 But that was an awful, awful loss. So who knows, 852 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.719 Maybe Indiana wins the whole thing makes the nick loss 853 00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.679 look a little better, So very issue. A lot of 854 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:30.880 interesting issues with the nickobocracy here in New York, right, 855 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:31.719 A lot of issues. 856 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.320 One question about our local basketball team as we find 857 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.880 ourselves in unchartered territory, you know, in the Miller's forty 858 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:43.239 year stewardship of the Utah Jazz. More or less every year, 859 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.159 while we've never won a championship out here, we've always 860 00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:48.800 had really good teams, and the rebuilds have only taken 861 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.360 one or two years. And they were able to bridge 862 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:55.079 the gap between stocked him alone to Darren Williamson Carlos Boozer, 863 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.039 and then it was Gordon Hayward and then Donovan Mitchell 864 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.760 and Rudy Gobert. Were about to enter our fourth year 865 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:03.679 of a rebuild after Ryan Smith bought the team from 866 00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.880 the Millers and Danny Ainge left the Celtics for the 867 00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:09.119 Jazz Austin as Danny Sun was just hired to run 868 00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.719 basketball operations. But I wanted to get your take, mister 869 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.280 Russo on the lottery situation. 870 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:16.199 Joke. 871 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:18.239 Yeah, Joe, Okay, yeah, good. 872 00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:19.440 I mean it. 873 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.320 There's no way that Dallas and San Antonio should be 874 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.599 wont to in a lottery and Utah would the fourth. 875 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.440 Fit whatever dy be them all, Yeah, we're fifth with Wizards. 876 00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:29.519 I mean it's a joke. 877 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.440 I mean the idea that the NBA has got to 878 00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:33.719 do this because these teams lose on purpose to get 879 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:36.360 these picks the last fifteen twenty games of the year 880 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.480 is an absolute disgrace. But I know they waited, we 881 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:41.679 all know that, and it's ping pun balls and all that. 882 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:45.119 But Dallas getso has a one point seven percent chance 883 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.960 to win the lottery and they and they went Flag. 884 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.199 I mean, that is a little lough. I don't know 885 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:53.760 what the solution is, but it's it's a disaster. I mean, 886 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.920 a jazz you're crazy and I don't like it. And 887 00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:59.440 if you're a Utah fan, you know Flag's the one 888 00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.440 guy you want to get. He's the one, at least 889 00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.400 on paper, the one guy there that is the transformational player. 890 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:08.880 And he goes to a team that you know, traded 891 00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:10.880 Luca and they end up getting another kid now the 892 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.280 next year, seventeen years of age. That's why I don't 893 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.440 know why kid would have to leave when he's got 894 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:16.880 this guy for the next fifteen years. 895 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:19.400 I know it's the Western Conference. 896 00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:20.719 But I feel bad for you ton, I feel bad 897 00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.440 for the Wizards, and I feel bad for Charlotte. Those 898 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:26.599 three teams had the worst records and they theoretically she 899 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:29.920 get the three top players. Now, I don't know. You know, 900 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:33.480 I understand these teams will lose. They give themselves the 901 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:36.599 better chance to get that worst player. But uh, you know, 902 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:38.159 I'm not sure what the solution is. 903 00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:40.800 But I've had enough with a lottery. They know Atlanta had. 904 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:42.920 A three percent chance last year to win the lottery. 905 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:43.800 They won it. 906 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.599 I don't like it at all. It's a grand bag, 907 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:50.440 it's a TV show, and I think something needs to 908 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.239 be done. Your solution is better than mine. I don't 909 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:54.280 know what exactly you could do. 910 00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:56.800 Well, you know, you could just do in verse order 911 00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:59.159 the way pro football does. Right, You just reward the 912 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.320 top pick to the worst team. Now, that doesn't de 913 00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:04.840 incentivize tanking, which Commissioner Silver has gone on record saying 914 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.079 he very much wants to do. But I think the 915 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.199 tough thing for us out here in Salt Lake is 916 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.239 we're looking at an NBA finals with Oklahoma City in Indianapolis, 917 00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.079 and over the past five or six years, teams in 918 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:18.880 Milwaukee and Denver have been able to win championships in 919 00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.719 Minnesota has a good team, and Denver still will have 920 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.159 something to say about it as long as they have 921 00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.199 Nicola Jokic. We've entered mad dog, this era of parody 922 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:29.880 where teams in smaller cities have been able to build 923 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:33.199 up really, really competitive and championship level teams. And I 924 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.480 think I'm just afraid that, you know, the Jazz are 925 00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:38.159 going to miss out on this opportunity to build a 926 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:41.639 championship team during this era where teams in smaller markets 927 00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:42.800 have been able to do just that. 928 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.400 Boy, you got to be you have to be lucky. 929 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:47.599 You got to be terrible when that big player comes out, 930 00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.079 is what it comes down to. You know, san Antonio 931 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.800 was terrible, There's Wemba yema uh and I got the 932 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.599 top pick Dallas terrible to get flagged. 933 00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.840 He's going to be great. You would think top pick. 934 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.760 You know, you need to be out of what Giannis 935 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:02.559 pick was. I don't think he was the top pick. 936 00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:06.400 But the bottom line is you need to be an 937 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.760 awful basketball team and then at the right time that 938 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:12.079 the right player comes out of college is what it 939 00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.000 comes down to. And Utah hasn't had that advantage. Yet 940 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.800 Noah's Charlotte, nor is Washington. Know those kind of teams, 941 00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.679 and you know, the NBA is about the great player. 942 00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.679 You got to get one to win one, and there's 943 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.960 only about ten or twelve out there. You know, Giannis 944 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.599 is one of them, indeed, healthy as one of them. 945 00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:30.519 We all know about Jokic, he's certainly one of them, 946 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:31.840 Luca probably one of them. 947 00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:33.159 Lebron was one of them. 948 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:35.679 You need one of those guys to build your team 949 00:45:35.719 --> 00:45:37.440 and have a chance to win. I'll let you want 950 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.840 to get lucky with a guy like Curry who turns 951 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.199 out to be an old timer when he was the 952 00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:43.880 seventh ticket the draft. So tricky start for the Jazz. 953 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:47.480 They've been a great franchise, run properly, but sometimes luck 954 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:49.800 is involved here too. They great there for those years 955 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:51.639 in the nineties, and they got to sit there and 956 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:53.960 I got to deal with Jordan so and they lose 957 00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:57.119 a couple of tough series. So it's it's tricky. I mean, 958 00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:59.800 it's it's very, very hard to win these championships. 959 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:00.440 You know, there's a. 960 00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:03.039 Reason why the Celtics and the Lakers or they got 961 00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.440 about thirty two of the seventy championships. I mean, you know, 962 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.960 that's the very few. You know, Jordan's got six, but 963 00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:13.400 Bron's got a half of whatever. He's got four or five. 964 00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:15.079 Let's see what he's got. 965 00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:18.000 Four, right, the woman, the Lakers two with Miami woman, Cleveland, 966 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:23.199 you know, the Curries got four. You know, the one 967 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:25.639 great player dominates and wins a lot of these rings. 968 00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:29.360 And Utah hasn't had that great player yet. So obviously 969 00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:32.280 stocked in great and Malone great, but they ran into Jordan. 970 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:34.519 For the most part, they haven't had those great players yet, 971 00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:36.280 that one transformational player. 972 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.440 All right, before I set you loose, you referenced it earlier, 973 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:42.880 and like everybody else, I picked Oklahoma City. I actually 974 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.400 picked them in five. And it's funny, dog. I was 975 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:48.000 watching the game with some buddies last night, and after 976 00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:50.199 Shay hit the layup to put them up seven with 977 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.719 about I don't know, ninety seconds left or so, one 978 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:55.599 of my buddies said, well, Okay, that's it, that's over. 979 00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:57.239 I said, no, it's not. You didn't watch any of 980 00:46:57.239 --> 00:46:59.880 the nick and yeah, the series said tight, let's see 981 00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.079 how this ends. I am so impressed with them, and 982 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:05.320 I'm so impressed with Rick Carlisle. No part of me 983 00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:07.440 will ever be able to cheer for the Indiana Pacers. 984 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.559 But last night made things really interesting. I think I'm 985 00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.039 still leaning okay see, but after last night, what say 986 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.599 you about these NBA Finals? 987 00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:17.079 Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, you can begin to 988 00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:19.559 start to think it just happens to be Indiana's year. 989 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.400 I mean, it went four games like they've won in 990 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:26.400 this postseason is miraculous. Last time may have been the 991 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.800 biggest one. Well, I guess the nick game was in 992 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:32.760 Game one, they were down five more points, but you 993 00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:35.039 know the fact that they only led for three tenths 994 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.519 of a second, I mean, geez, and then it was 995 00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:40.639 the last basket of the game. You know, I thought, 996 00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:43.320 okay see, in six, I did think Indiana would be 997 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:44.800 very competitive in this series. 998 00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:46.320 You know. 999 00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.639 I know, Okac recovered against Denver and had a great 1000 00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:51.920 game two after they lost kind of a similar game 1001 00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.079 in that first game. But this team right now is 1002 00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:58.480 more dangerous than Denver was. They're a younger team, They're 1003 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:01.679 a hungrier team. They got more of a you know, 1004 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:03.840 this year, they got more of a foundation under him, 1005 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.960 They got a bigger belief than Denver had. I think 1006 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.119 you know, Denver a coaching change and you know, only 1007 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:12.719 won the fifty games anything else. And I think okay 1008 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.679 See was very familiar with Denver. They're not as familiar 1009 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:19.679 with Indiana, so this would be And I think Indiana 1010 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:21.440 in game two, well they got doing game two. Don't 1011 00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:24.119 get blown out, you know, don't throw away that first 1012 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.280 game by getting killed in game two. I think Denver 1013 00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:29.360 kind of did that in that second game where they 1014 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:33.400 got destroyed and never competitive. Don't let Oklahoma City have 1015 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:36.840 an easy game. Put stress on them. Make that game 1016 00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.440 anybody's game with eight minutes to go, and if you lose, 1017 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:42.639 you lose, but you make Oklahoma City get little nervous. 1018 00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:45.039 And I think that would be interesting to see how 1019 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:46.159 okay See handles that. 1020 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:47.199 Now. They did handle that. 1021 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:49.440 Denver game four well, when they were down you know, 1022 00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.280 eight nine points in the fourth quarter and they came 1023 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:54.400 back to win. And they did handle game five well, 1024 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.159 don't get me wrong, because they were in trouble. 1025 00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.920 They were at to to two. 1026 00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.239 But Indiana's got loose something going on right now. I 1027 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.599 would agree with you, Spence. I still think the okay 1028 00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:07.639 See probably will win. Uh, but you know, and Indiana's 1029 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:11.159 a goodbye. It's worth a shot because of that calma 1030 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:14.239 and that belief. And remember, okay, see now I said 1031 00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.079 this is the deep end of the pool here. This 1032 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:19.079 is not the second round. This is deep end of 1033 00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.920 the pool against a team that has been around a 1034 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.199 lot with a big coach. So we shall see. But 1035 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:24.840 it's got a chance to be a good series. Now, 1036 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:25.519 how's a chance? 1037 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:29.480 Well, mister Russo, always a pleasure. I still listen whenever 1038 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.400 I can. And as I often say when people ask 1039 00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:34.360 me when I wanted to get into this business, it's 1040 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:36.039 when I used to listen to you and Mike driving 1041 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:38.559 around town. And so I appreciate your time and know 1042 00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:40.760 you're busy. I'll set you loose and again, thanks so much. 1043 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:41.639 I really appreciate it. 1044 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:42.599 I stance. 1045 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:44.360 You do a wonderful, wonderful job. 1046 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.199 You're a good talk for host and your own man's 1047 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:47.719 a good man. You know that I love you for all. 1048 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:49.119 No, that's kind of you. Appreciate that. 1049 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:53.239 Have a great show today, Okay, okay, buddy, appreciate all right. 1050 00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:55.400 The great Chris Russo, mad Dog Mike and the mad 1051 00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:57.960 Dog one of my uh uh really uh, I would say, 1052 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:01.480 kind of muses or rosebuds, did me me consider doing 1053 00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:03.159 this for a living in a number of different years ago, 1054 00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:06.039 and Chris is still doing it at a very high level. 1055 00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:08.280 You can see him. I think it's Wednesdays with Stephen A. 1056 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.519 Smith on First Take. He has his own show daily 1057 00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:15.079 on Sirius XM special thanks to Chris Russo Mad Dog 1058 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:16.599 stopping by to start the show off. 1059 00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:16.920 Today. 1060 00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:19.440 Zach Harper will join us from the Athletic in a bit. 1061 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.480 Gordon Montson, my old radio partner from the old days 1062 00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:25.960 at the old station, longtime columnists from the Salt Lake 1063 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.960 Tribune as our guest later on. A lot of powerhouse 1064 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:31.880 writers on the show Today. Howard Beck, one of our 1065 00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.639 favorites from the Ringer on a Friday, Howard, Happy Friday, sir, 1066 00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:35.039 how are you? 1067 00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.719 I'm doing well, Happy Friday. Thank you for bringing me 1068 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:40.519 into war on drugs one of my favorites. 1069 00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.400 All I want is the Howard Beck stamp of approval 1070 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.599 on our musical choice. So you've made my Friday. You 1071 00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:50.079 have made my weekend, Howard. We will start with news 1072 00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:51.719 that was made out this way. I don't know if 1073 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.840 you know, Austin Ange. I don't know if you've ever 1074 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.440 been able to meet him or get to know him 1075 00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:59.840 at all. Ultimately, he has been hired as the new 1076 00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.920 basketball excuse me, the new president of basketball operations for 1077 00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:07.119 the Utah Jazz, and Ryan Smith himself said during the 1078 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.880 press conference that this is now the loudest voice in 1079 00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.840 our front office. This is Austin show. He has final say, 1080 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:17.079 meaning his dad reports to him, meaning Justin Zanik, the 1081 00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:20.639 general manager, reports to him. So it's not as topical 1082 00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:22.239 as some of the other things we'll get into, but 1083 00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.360 we are in Salt Lake City. Howard, what's your reaction 1084 00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:25.760 of the hire that was made this week? 1085 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:32.519 Honestly, I am barely like dug into it myself, just 1086 00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:36.079 because I'm at the NBA Finals in Oklahoma. I've you know, 1087 00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.519 obviously been trying to also dig around on some Nixon 1088 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.599 Tibbs things and everything else, and like everybody else, I 1089 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:44.000 did not. 1090 00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:44.559 See this coming. 1091 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:46.199 I did not know they were going to make a hire. 1092 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:48.400 I did not know that hire would be another member 1093 00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:53.400 of the empire. I kind of just assumed that, you know, 1094 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:58.320 Danny with whatever his title is CEO, Chief Executive of 1095 00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:01.519 being Danny Ainge, that that he and Justin Zanik kind 1096 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:04.920 of had this thing pretty well staffed. Those are two 1097 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:09.519 seasoned hands and two really smart people. So I'm curious 1098 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.440 to understand. And I did not catch the press conference. Again, 1099 00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.639 it's just been a bonker's week, so I did not 1100 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.280 see the press conference. I saw a couple of the 1101 00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:19.639 comments from from Austin about not wanting to take anymore, 1102 00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:21.840 but that should be what anybody would say at the stage. 1103 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:26.639 That's not surprising how this all works, whether it's chain 1104 00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:30.000 of command, whether it's what the philosophy is now why 1105 00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:33.119 they felt they needed another executive in there. I'm honestly, 1106 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:35.159 you know more than I do right now. I am 1107 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.719 still trying to get a grasp of it, but I'm 1108 00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:40.159 busy running between NBA Finals. 1109 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:43.400 Games, certainly, and I'm going to stretch to try to 1110 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.599 make this a little more topical and then we'll get 1111 00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:48.480 to the things where your energy has been allocated. But 1112 00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:50.719 you'll be able to handle this just fine, Howard. So 1113 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:54.920 here we go. If I look at this from a 1114 00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:00.800 positive spin, what ownership out here has done. They've extended 1115 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:04.920 Will Hardy until twenty thirty. Their front office is now 1116 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:08.039 solidified and in place, and it's kind of the anti 1117 00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:11.159 Jim Dolan Nick approach Now, of course you need players. 1118 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:12.960 It doesn't matter who your coach is, it doesn't matter 1119 00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:15.679 who your front office is. But for a team that's 1120 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:17.719 won thirty three percent of their games for the last 1121 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.119 four years, to extend their coach and extend their belief 1122 00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:24.559 in the front office, I suppose that is an approach 1123 00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.320 that does lead to stability in hopefully given time, the 1124 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:30.440 right choices are made. So again, while the product on 1125 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:32.840 the court continues to suffer and they've got to find players, 1126 00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:36.079 at least, what Ryan and Ashley have elected to do 1127 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.239 is lock in a coaching staff in a front office 1128 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:39.840 for a number of years. If we can look at 1129 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:42.480 that as any sort of a positive, I. 1130 00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:45.119 Think it is the first step in any of these 1131 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:51.000 situations is hire the right people, empower them, and especially 1132 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.679 if you're a team that's in some semblance of a rebuild, 1133 00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:56.559 you've got to give them the time to do it now. 1134 00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:59.199 It's not in perpetuity, and if they're doing it badly, 1135 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.239 of course you have the right to as the as 1136 00:54:01.239 --> 00:54:04.519 the owner of the team, to reevaluate, reassess, and dismiss 1137 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.639 them if they're not doing it. But you've already hired 1138 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.920 some of the smartest people around like, just you know, 1139 00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:13.079 and you've signed off on the let's blow up the 1140 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.199 team we had with Mitchell and Gobert. Let's go into 1141 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:19.079 what was I think, frankly kind of a you know, 1142 00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.960 a half hearted rebuild slash, well we're going to retool 1143 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.000 on the fly thing that I, as you know, I 1144 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:27.199 never thought was the right idea that you're either all 1145 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:29.039 in or all out, and they needed to just be 1146 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.039 all in on the tank from the start. This is 1147 00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:34.400 the first season they really embraced that. I thought they 1148 00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:36.039 should have been doing it the last couple of years, 1149 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:39.920 and then at backfires to the extent that they did 1150 00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.800 not get the top pick in the draft or even 1151 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:44.480 a top three pick, And at some point you have 1152 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:48.079 to kind of, you know, decide what is our way 1153 00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:51.000 out of the morass the unfortunate thing. And Zach Loh 1154 00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:52.800 and I just talked about this on his pod that'll 1155 00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:55.559 be posting later today, so people can go listen to 1156 00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:57.639 us talk about the jazz quite a bit on that. 1157 00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:02.719 But you know the difficulty is whatever you decide to do, 1158 00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:06.119 whether you're trying to augment around lowry marketing, or whether 1159 00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:08.400 you decide the actual path forward is to trade lowery 1160 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:11.360 market in nothing is getting you back in the mix 1161 00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.599 in the near future anyway, because most of the teams 1162 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:15.960 ahead of them are firmly ahead of them. Then there's 1163 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:18.880 no obvious teams to just really you know, fall off 1164 00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:21.679 a cliff. So you probably need to be patient anyway. 1165 00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.840 And I think back to your premise and your question 1166 00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:29.000 or statement about just the the you know, vote of 1167 00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:31.800 confidence in this group and having continuity. Continuity is good 1168 00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:33.559 when you have the right people, and they have the 1169 00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:35.480 right people. I think they have the right coach. I 1170 00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.880 think they have the right front office. Austin Ainge and 1171 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.360 I have only met a couple times over the years. 1172 00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:42.920 I don't know him well, but you know, obviously he 1173 00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:46.079 and Danny both really smart basketball people. I know, justin 1174 00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:49.280 a smart basketball person, you've got the right people in place, 1175 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:51.320 and then sometimes it just takes a little bit of 1176 00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:55.559 patients planning, a little good luck, a little opportunism. But 1177 00:55:55.639 --> 00:55:57.760 they're in a very difficult spot because they happen to 1178 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.719 be in a Western conference that's absolutely act where even 1179 00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:04.239 the teams that are not contenders are really strong and 1180 00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.960 it's just hard to leapfrog anybody. So you do have 1181 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.639 to look at your time horizon and say, where is 1182 00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:12.800 our opportunity to jump back in the mix, because it's 1183 00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:15.320 not tomorrow, it's not this next season. 1184 00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.320 Yeah, no it's not. And that's why one more thing 1185 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:21.199 here then we'll move on. I would imagine if you 1186 00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:24.400 and Zach discuss this situation you discussed Austin saying we're 1187 00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:27.719 not tanking anymore, which is all fine and good, But 1188 00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:29.920 the Jazz is on a top eight protected pick that 1189 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.920 goes to Oklahoma City if it falls out of the 1190 00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:36.800 top eight, And look, I don't know your opinion on 1191 00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.639 this roster. If they decide to go best foot forward 1192 00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:44.519 and play the Vets seventy seventy five games, Marketing plays, Kessler, 1193 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:48.519 plays Collins Sexton, all the Vets play seventy seventy five games, 1194 00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:52.280 or whatever the fear I think in the approach of 1195 00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.920 simply okay, we are going to try to compete, which 1196 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:57.320 I think is a good thing when you look at 1197 00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:00.320 the lack of integrity they use to approach the unserious 1198 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:03.760 competition element of the organization a year ago. I mean, 1199 00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.800 you do want to see the team you cheer for 1200 00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.039 to try hard every night. But if we're sitting in 1201 00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:10.840 your next spring and they've won thirty five games, and 1202 00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:13.239 Mark Tatum pulls out the number nine envelope and it's 1203 00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:15.039 the Jazz and that goes to Okay. See that's a 1204 00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:17.079 massive step, Howard in the wrong direction. 1205 00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:20.639 Yeah, that would be that would be a blow. I mean, 1206 00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:22.480 and that was, of course, you know a different version 1207 00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:24.760 of this, but that was you know, the sixersphere, you know, 1208 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:26.639 a couple of weeks ago, when they were in this 1209 00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:29.199 position with a pick. That was of course also with Oklahoma, 1210 00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:35.079 because everybody owes their picks to Oklahoma. I think, listen, 1211 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:40.000 I think that that mere fact suggests that, yes, they 1212 00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:43.639 should plan on being bad enough again to keep their pick. 1213 00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:49.119 The fine line between that and quote unquote tanking is 1214 00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.440 the scenario you just outlined. And it's interesting. 1215 00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:52.880 Play all the vets. 1216 00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:55.000 Zach just said this on the pod that we like 1217 00:57:55.039 --> 00:57:59.000 literally just recorded twenty minutes ago. Zach said, listen, they 1218 00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:01.199 can play all the Vets, all the guys that you 1219 00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:04.159 just named, and there's still probably a lottery team, there's 1220 00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.679 still probably the fourteenth team in the West. But at 1221 00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:08.960 least it would be a respectable version of that. Hey, 1222 00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:10.760 we tried and we just lost because we don't have 1223 00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:15.320 the talent, we don't have the guns, but it would 1224 00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:18.000 be I think more palatable to the fans. I would 1225 00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:19.440 think the record wouldn't. 1226 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:20.320 But the product would be. 1227 00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:24.519 It'll be more palatable to the NBA League office where 1228 00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:27.880 they won't have to find you for playing games in 1229 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:32.320 shenanigans with injuries and fake injuries and guys just disappearing. 1230 00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:39.239 So and that's why I think the stronger case tanking 1231 00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:42.440 or no tanking the stronger case here. With lowery marketing 1232 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:44.920 at twenty eight or whatever and firmly in his prime 1233 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.559 and with no sense that this team was going to 1234 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.760 turn it around soon ish, it makes more sense for 1235 00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:53.719 lowry marketing to be somewhere else. And he's got value 1236 00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:56.960 around the league, and there are teams that, you know, 1237 00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.760 maybe lowery marketing a way from going from play into 1238 00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.280 play or from six seed to four seed or whatever. 1239 00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:04.840 He's a great, complimentary star, but he's not a leading man. 1240 00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:08.639 And you know, I don't know what you'd get if 1241 00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:11.559 you put him on the market tomorrow, but I think 1242 00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:15.000 whatever you got, would you know, put you that much 1243 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:18.159 further along toward whatever the next era will be, because 1244 00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:20.239 I don't think that he's part of the next winning 1245 00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:22.559 or at least not the next high level winning team. 1246 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:25.519 Well, and with the final stuff, but you reference the 1247 00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:28.239 New York Knicks electing to move on from Tom Thibodeau, 1248 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.679 which I just still cannot wrap my mind around. I've 1249 00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:33.400 read a lot of takes, I've listened to a lot 1250 00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.039 of takes, and there are a lot of people that 1251 00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:38.639 claim they have sources here there about it being player driven, 1252 00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:41.559 the whole CAAA thing, even though Tom was a CAAA 1253 00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:45.199 guy and Leon was his agent. I would venture to 1254 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:48.000 guess that a guy like Tom Thibodeau probably does not 1255 00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:51.360 like a guy very much who goes by the moniker 1256 00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:55.039 of Worldwide West. I can understand that. And they have 1257 00:59:55.119 --> 01:00:00.159 an owner that has a reputation of making rash decisions 1258 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.000 based off of emotion in the moment, which is why 1259 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:04.960 they've been irrelevant for twenty five years. I think it's 1260 01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.679 so dumb, and we'll see what happens next. But throughout 1261 01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:10.639 the course of your conversations, what were the reasons and 1262 01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:12.960 who ultimately was behind this decision to let go of 1263 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:13.639 Tom Tibodeau. 1264 01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:16.559 It's a mixed. 1265 01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:19.199 Bag, and in the moment that it happened, and like 1266 01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:21.800 we taped a podcast, We taped The Real Ones podcast 1267 01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:24.760 Logan Murick and I like immediate after this and in 1268 01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.719 the in that moment, I was like talking, I'm not 1269 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:32.559 quite in circles, but I was definitely like I could 1270 01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:34.840 see it this way. But then there's also this, it's 1271 01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:37.800 very it's complicated to me. I don't think it's black 1272 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.360 and white. And I understand like where you're coming from on. 1273 01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:41.199 This, but. 1274 01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:45.880 Yes, this was by far the best era of Knicks 1275 01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:48.360 basketball in a very long time, in a quarter century. 1276 01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.480 Five very good seasons, back to back fifty win seasons, 1277 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:53.320 first conference finals in twenty five years. 1278 01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:53.480 All that. 1279 01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.320 Timms deserves a lot of credit for that, but it's 1280 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.400 not just him, Like the most important reason that they're 1281 01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:03.639 respectable again, as Jalen Brunson and Jalen Brunston joined the 1282 01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:05.760 Knixt in part because Jalen Brenson has close ties to 1283 01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:09.519 Leon Rose, to that front office. There was obviously they 1284 01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:12.039 got charged with tampering or they were guilty of tampering 1285 01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:13.880 that leaked, docked them a couple of second round picks 1286 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:16.519 or whatever it was. Because of the Rick Brunson element here, 1287 01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:19.599 Jalen Brunson is the most important reason. Tims is among 1288 01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:20.559 the important reasons. 1289 01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:23.079 But this is also a team that they've made a lot. 1290 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:24.440 Of smart moves. I mean, they went out and got 1291 01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:26.719 oh g Anobi, they trade and were willing to pay him. 1292 01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:28.639 They went out and got Josh hart who wasn't exactly 1293 01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:31.800 in high demand at the moment that they plucked him, 1294 01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:35.320 Isaiah Hartenstein, Devencenzo, all the guys they've gotten along the way, 1295 01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:42.119 and Tibbs created a culture and an ethos that I 1296 01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:44.480 think was really important in this re emergence. And they 1297 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:47.039 got the players who fit him, because that's really important. 1298 01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:50.039 They got players who were grinders and who would respond 1299 01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:55.639 to a Tibb's type of approach where this so he deserves, 1300 01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:57.639 like Timms is all the credit in the world, in 1301 01:01:57.639 --> 01:01:59.400 addition to obviously everybody else I just named. 1302 01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:00.679 They are now. 1303 01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:04.119 But you do have to reassess at a certain point, 1304 01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:07.000 or assess is And it's not just because they lost 1305 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:08.960 in the conference finals. This isn't oh, they didn't make 1306 01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:11.440 the finals, we're firing the coach. By everything I've been 1307 01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:13.199 able to gather over the last couple of days and 1308 01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:16.280 by no means, there's this definitive I won't say that 1309 01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:18.960 like I have the definitive version of this. You can 1310 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:21.400 find a lot of different versions as you're calling around. 1311 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:26.000 But I think that the reservations that the front office had, 1312 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:30.280 and I'm loathed as much as I've covered the next 1313 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:31.800 over the last twenty years and been in New York, 1314 01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:34.960 I'm loth ever dismissed the possibility this is just Dolan 1315 01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:38.000 being Dolan, But I don't think that that was what 1316 01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:40.159 was going on in this case. I think this was 1317 01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:43.280 Leon Rose and Leon and Tibbs have been you know, 1318 01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:46.000 tight for a long time too. Obviously Leon's the one 1319 01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:49.639 who hired him. I think there was a consensus conclusion 1320 01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:54.360 in that front office that all the things that you 1321 01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:56.719 and I already know about tips, or that the criticisms 1322 01:02:56.719 --> 01:02:59.159 that we've all heard, that those things were a concern, 1323 01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:02.320 whether it's the minutes for the starters, the lack of 1324 01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:04.280 trust in the bench, the lack of development of the bench, 1325 01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:06.239 and then finally going to the bench kind of a 1326 01:03:06.239 --> 01:03:10.159 too little, too late scenario in the conference finals, which 1327 01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:12.480 just underscored why you should have been playing them sooner, 1328 01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:15.719 because these guys have had very little run and very 1329 01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:17.960 little time to get comfortable with each other or with 1330 01:03:18.039 --> 01:03:21.880 the rest of that lineup. There's also you know, in 1331 01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:24.239 today's NBA we talk a lot about alignment. You want 1332 01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:26.000 the front office and coach to kind of have a 1333 01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:29.119 similar vision. Doesn't always happen. We saw how badly that 1334 01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:31.159 can go in Denver with Michael Malone and Calvin Booth 1335 01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:33.760 basically blowing each other up, and they both got fired. 1336 01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:37.880 And that goes back to again developing the bench. You 1337 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.199 need you know, again Denver and New York both you 1338 01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:43.039 need a coach who's going to trust the front office's 1339 01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:46.840 investment in certain players in the front office needs to 1340 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:49.360 trust the coach and then develop them. So there's all 1341 01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:51.639 these things, and I think there were moments over the 1342 01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:55.400 last couple of years, pre dating the actual firing, where 1343 01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:59.159 there were conversations about is he the right coach to 1344 01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:01.360 still go forward with. I've also talked to a couple 1345 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:03.280 of coaches around the league the last couple of days, 1346 01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:08.480 and these are coaches who strongly admire TIBs, other veterans 1347 01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:11.480 who have been around a long time, and who basically 1348 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.960 told me, listen, there are some limits because of the 1349 01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:17.679 way he coaches and because of the style that he 1350 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:22.480 coaches and like, look at Jalen Brunton and how much 1351 01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:25.000 he dominates the ball and you want to put it 1352 01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:27.599 on brunts and you could say that, but the coaches 1353 01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:31.280 is the one who decides how to what style of play. 1354 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:34.800 They are very half oriented, but they also like I 1355 01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:38.039 think tops in the league in shots taken in the 1356 01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:39.760 final seconds of the shot clock, and the deeper in 1357 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:43.440 the shot clock you go, the lower efficiency the shots are, 1358 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.440 so that they need more innovation in that offense. They 1359 01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.639 need to empower Mchail Bridges and Karl Anthony townsmore after 1360 01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:51.679 acquiring those guys, and they can both do stuff with 1361 01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.159 the ball in their hands. Like there are fair criticisms 1362 01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:56.679 of TIBs and the limitations that came with him. That 1363 01:04:56.800 --> 01:04:57.920 was a very long winded answer. 1364 01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:59.920 I'm sorry it was a long winded but good ants. 1365 01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:03.800 And I mean the one area I would offer pushback 1366 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.599 will completely admitting my bias about the way I feel 1367 01:05:07.599 --> 01:05:11.000 about Tom as a person and a coach, is when 1368 01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:14.280 you look at their bench. I mean they've got six 1369 01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:17.480 and a half players, maybe seven. I mean, if you're 1370 01:05:17.480 --> 01:05:21.559 going to stretch and play campaign and precious Atua, you 1371 01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:24.840 know Landry Shammitt, Like, I think it's also fair to 1372 01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:26.800 bring up that that's not a very deep roster in 1373 01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:31.039 my opinion, and I think it's hard. The criticisms about 1374 01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:35.639 Tom waiting until the Pacers series to dust some of 1375 01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:38.440 these guys off totally fair because we had Delon right 1376 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:38.800 out here. 1377 01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:39.159 To you. 1378 01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:44.280 I mean, he is somebody who has more capabilities as 1379 01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:47.119 a ball in hand guy than he is shown. They 1380 01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:50.599 basically only used him as a defensive stopper, but he's 1381 01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:54.719 not a horrible offensive option. But he no confidence because 1382 01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:57.280 he hadn't played in so long. But the one pushback 1383 01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:59.480 I would offer to your answer is I don't see 1384 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:02.000 a ross or the Tom was handed with very much depth. 1385 01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:07.079 In my opinion, I wasn't real fond of that bench either. 1386 01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:09.960 But what we did see, and this is where it backfires, right, 1387 01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:13.119 you put in deln Wright and Landry Shammitt and suddenly 1388 01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:15.239 they actually got some good minutes out of them, and 1389 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:17.599 those that was like he Tom got credited as he 1390 01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:20.039 should for making that adjustment in the series and it 1391 01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:24.679 helped them in those games, which then makes you question, well, 1392 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:26.400 then why weren't they good enough to play in the 1393 01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:27.239 regular season. 1394 01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:28.480 The other piece of. 1395 01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:32.440 That is guys do like players are creatures of habit. 1396 01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.840 They need the rhythm and the familiarity and also the 1397 01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:39.159 confidence of the coaching staff and of their teammates. And 1398 01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:41.920 if you haven't been playing them for months and then 1399 01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:44.440 you're dusting them off at a key moment, you're probably 1400 01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:45.800 not going to get the best out of them. But 1401 01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:47.920 I think there's a case to be made. And yeah, 1402 01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:51.519 these are fringe rotation players to be sure, but would 1403 01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:53.559 they have been better rotation players if you had played 1404 01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:55.320 them a little in the regular season. And the thing 1405 01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:59.079 with Tips has always been he plays every single game 1406 01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:01.679 and you could spin this positive, spin this negative, but 1407 01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:04.199 he plays every single game like the fate of the 1408 01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:07.440 universe depends on it. He wants to win every single game. 1409 01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:09.880 And I think that was really beneficial to the Knicks 1410 01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:11.519 at a time when they were just trying to become 1411 01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:16.800 respectable again, competitive again. But it backfires potentially when you're 1412 01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:21.199 at a stage like this where you need guys a 1413 01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:24.239 little fresher for the playoffs. Other teams are really you know, 1414 01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:26.800 their their depth is not just because they got better players, 1415 01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:28.800 but because they invested in those players and played them 1416 01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.239 a lot. And now your guys are gassed when their 1417 01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:33.679 guys are fresh, because they're going ten deep and you're 1418 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:37.920 going seven. And so I you know, there's always a 1419 01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:40.719 little bit of blame to go around on something like this. 1420 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:43.440 I do think their bench could be better, should be better. 1421 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:47.199 But I also think that TIB's waited too long. And 1422 01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:51.079 you know that's again, that's only one piece of this. 1423 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:52.559 When I when I was there, was a coach I 1424 01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:54.280 was talking to the other day, again, somebody's been around 1425 01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:56.239 a long time. Assistant coach, has been in a lot 1426 01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:58.639 of different stats, coached under a lot of different coaches, 1427 01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:01.079 and he said that Tom was coaching like it was 1428 01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:03.920 still the nineties. And I said, whoa like? You mean offensively, 1429 01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:06.559 he goes both sides And that was a little surprising 1430 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:06.840 to me. 1431 01:08:07.719 --> 01:08:10.840 So who, ultimately do you think they land on, because honestly, 1432 01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:13.400 no matter who it is, I don't know that they 1433 01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:16.159 get back to the Eastern Conference finals. Now there's a 1434 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:19.159 case to be made that Boston has some decisions to make, 1435 01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:24.000 and there'll be without Tatum. Indiana's probably already put themselves 1436 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:25.840 in the mix to be the favorite right out of 1437 01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:28.319 the gates, and there are so many questions with Giannis. 1438 01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:31.479 Can any of these younger teams take steps up like Detroit, 1439 01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:35.479 Orlando or whatever, so they'll be in the mix. But 1440 01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:37.640 based off of what I perceived to be a roster 1441 01:08:37.720 --> 01:08:40.399 that needs a lot of work, If a coach takes 1442 01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:43.199 over for Tom and goes back to the Eastern Conference Finals, 1443 01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.239 I'd be widely impressed because I think Tom really did 1444 01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:49.640 something that nobody saw coming even a little bit of 1445 01:08:50.079 --> 01:08:51.880 a head of schedule, that they actually got to the 1446 01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:54.560 Eastern Conference Finals. And I think we've all heard a 1447 01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:55.920 lot of the names out there. Who do you think 1448 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:57.600 ultimately they land on Howard and why? 1449 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:02.479 I have no guess as to who they land on. 1450 01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:05.439 My buddy mark Stein has been reporting today that Jason 1451 01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:07.720 Kidd is not just on their radar, but that they've 1452 01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:10.239 actually asked for permission from the Mavericks to speak with him, 1453 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:11.880 and it's not clear whether the Mavericks are going to 1454 01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:14.199 grant that permission or not. And then it would be 1455 01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:17.359 a question of can you figure out a compensation package? 1456 01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:17.479 Right? 1457 01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:19.319 Like, we haven't seen this in a long time. We 1458 01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:21.880 refer to it as a trade. It's not really a trade, 1459 01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:24.039 it's more just compensation. But you know, Doc Rivers going 1460 01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:26.680 from Boston to the Clippers, and the Clippers gave the 1461 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:29.880 Celtics a first round pick as compensation from letting him 1462 01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:31.600 out of his deal. The Knicks don't have a lot 1463 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:33.840 of first round picks to spare after sending all those 1464 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:37.479 picks to the nets for mkhail Bridges, so giving up 1465 01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:39.359 draft capital doesn't seem like a wise move to go 1466 01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:41.640 get a coach who I don't know if Jason Kids 1467 01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:45.840 an upgrade over Tom like he's different. Whoever they get 1468 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:49.920 may not be necessarily quote unquote demonstrably better, but just different, right, 1469 01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:52.079 And I think different as what they're looking for right now, 1470 01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:56.319 just a hunch on my part, I think Taylor Jenkins 1471 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:58.039 makes a lot of sense for them. I wouldn't be 1472 01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:01.640 surprised if they went that direct. I don't think it'll 1473 01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:03.800 be Michael Malone for reasons that I've already kind of 1474 01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:08.920 alluded to. And I just think that what they're looking 1475 01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:12.600 for now is somebody who one is more of a 1476 01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:18.520 relationships guy. That's not Tibbs's repid reputed strength. So relationships, 1477 01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:21.720 whether it's you know, the front office, players, whatever, somebody 1478 01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:25.119 who's a little bit more of a relationships guy. A communicator, 1479 01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:27.560 and then to somebody who might be a little bit 1480 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.239 more innovative, I would say not more than maybe, but 1481 01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:33.119 is more innovative on the offensive end and is going 1482 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:35.479 to do more to make this less brunts and centric, 1483 01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:39.039 and assuming that Bridges and Towns are still on the roster, 1484 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:42.720 utilize those guys because you know, they put a lot 1485 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.800 in to get those guys and to diversify the offense. 1486 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.000 This is one of the most expensive starting fives in 1487 01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:52.399 the NBA and for good reason. Yeah, the bench, you know, 1488 01:10:52.399 --> 01:10:55.319 we we've talked about, but like it's because they're top 1489 01:10:55.359 --> 01:11:01.600 heavy and there's more I think ability to exploit that talent. 1490 01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.760 Then we saw this. 1491 01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:06.000 Season all right, moving over to you know, teams that 1492 01:11:06.039 --> 01:11:09.319 are still playing basketball. Since you were present for the 1493 01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:12.960 events that last night, you know, I was talking about 1494 01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.319 this earlier. I was watching the game with a few 1495 01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:17.560 buddies and Shay was able to hit that layup. I 1496 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:19.880 think it put him up seven with like ninety seconds 1497 01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:22.239 left or whatever, and one of my friends said, all right, well, 1498 01:11:22.239 --> 01:11:23.840 that's probably it, and I said, oh, you haven't been 1499 01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:27.039 watching the playoffs, because let's sit tight here and see 1500 01:11:27.039 --> 01:11:30.399 how this goes down. There are so many Bull's eyes. 1501 01:11:30.439 --> 01:11:32.600 We could aim at Howard, but I'll give you the space. 1502 01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:36.720 What were your takeaways from watching yet another Indiana comeback 1503 01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:40.640 and then being up one zero in the NBA Finals? 1504 01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:45.960 Just stunning. I mean I was at the garden for 1505 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:48.199 a couple of those Haliburton moments, and of course we've 1506 01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:50.279 all watched, you know, the other moments he's had against 1507 01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:56.159 Cleveland and Milwaukee. It's almost just almost expected at this point, 1508 01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:57.560 like he pulls it for that shot, He's like, of 1509 01:11:57.600 --> 01:11:59.319 course he's gonna make it. This is just what he 1510 01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:02.399 does now, Tyres Haliburton has become one of the best 1511 01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:04.399 postseason clutch shooters of all time in the space of 1512 01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:07.960 about a month, like these were all like iconic, incredible 1513 01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:14.279 shots and stretches of shots, and it's it's it's remarkable. 1514 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:19.199 The guys just cold blooded and what a fun moment. 1515 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:21.600 Unless you're a thunder fan, this is one of the 1516 01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:23.359 loudest I think it might be deloud us to read 1517 01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:25.359 in the NBA. I hadn't been here a long time. 1518 01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:28.840 I'd forgotten, and just last night it was a rude 1519 01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:31.479 reminder of just like how much it hurts your ears, 1520 01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:34.000 and you know, to be able to silence that place 1521 01:12:34.920 --> 01:12:37.119 is a feat into itself. I don't know there's anything 1522 01:12:37.079 --> 01:12:39.800 to drop in that game basketball wise, only because like, 1523 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:42.399 not because it's fluky, but it's because like you can 1524 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:44.640 talk about all the adjustments and schemes and everything in 1525 01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:46.640 the world, and yes, there are there are, you know, 1526 01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:49.079 things that that the thunder could have done better here 1527 01:12:49.159 --> 01:12:51.640 or there where you know, one basket would have made 1528 01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:53.560 a difference and they don't lose. 1529 01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:55.760 But sometimes it's. 1530 01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:58.479 Just the the you know, the talent of one guy 1531 01:12:58.680 --> 01:13:00.399 being able to hit a shot like that in a 1532 01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:01.199 moment like that. 1533 01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:06.560 So ultimately, this conversation about who Halliburton is is a 1534 01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:10.560 little bit exhausting because ultimately, I suppose a superstar player 1535 01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:13.159 is left to the definition of the individual who's having 1536 01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:15.840 the conversation. I'll ask you, though, because you were really 1537 01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:18.520 high on him a long long time ago, is is 1538 01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.359 he better than you ever thought he could be based 1539 01:13:21.399 --> 01:13:22.960 off of how he's evolved. 1540 01:13:24.239 --> 01:13:27.960 I thought early on in Sacramento. And that's funny because 1541 01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:31.159 at the time, Kings folks were talking about, like we 1542 01:13:31.159 --> 01:13:32.520 we think he's really going to be a really good 1543 01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:35.199 defender across three positions and everything else. And it's funny 1544 01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:37.920 because the defensive part of it has kind of faded 1545 01:13:38.039 --> 01:13:42.000 or receded over time as he's emerged more as a 1546 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:46.640 as a playmaker and scorer. He's not your prototypical high 1547 01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:49.720 usage guard in the mold of like a Harden or 1548 01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:53.000 Westbrook or anybody you know in this in this age 1549 01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.720 who you know everything revolves around me. Gayalen Brunson would 1550 01:13:55.720 --> 01:13:58.439 be another one, or you know certain versions of Trey Young, 1551 01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.319 like Halliburton part he's more like Steve Nash where he's 1552 01:14:02.359 --> 01:14:05.079 gonna like get the ball up court quickly. He's gonna 1553 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:08.399 make those hit ahead passes. He's gonna pass it early 1554 01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:09.920 in the shot clock and then maybe it'll come back 1555 01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:12.520 to him and maybe it won't, but it sets the 1556 01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:14.600 tone for the whole team. And so his selflessness is 1557 01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:17.920 part of the the allure there where he can do 1558 01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:20.000 some things with the ball in his hands, but he's 1559 01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:22.239 not the classic I'm just gonna like, you know, back 1560 01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:24.039 you down, or like beat you off the dribble or 1561 01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:27.159 you know, iso at the elbow, and like it's not 1562 01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.560 revolving around him. He's not gonna dominate the ball and 1563 01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:36.039 dominate the offense and then he's got this funky, unconventional shot, 1564 01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:41.960 but he's he's such a embrace the moment kind of player. 1565 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.600 There are guys who can average twenty five thirty but 1566 01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:47.079 aren't necessarily that great in the clutch and maybe don't 1567 01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:51.239 necessarily want those moments again, James Harden comes to mind, 1568 01:14:51.880 --> 01:14:55.239 and then Halliburton's the inverse where he's not high usage. 1569 01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:57.800 He's not gonna necessarily dominate the ball or drop thirty 1570 01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:00.000 five every night, though he's capable of doing it on occasion, 1571 01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:02.680 but he's gonna play a really efficient game. He's going 1572 01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:05.279 to keep the ball moving, he empowers his teammates, and 1573 01:15:05.319 --> 01:15:09.439 then when it's showtime and it's crunch time, there's no 1574 01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:10.880 shot that's too big for him or. 1575 01:15:10.840 --> 01:15:11.520 A moment that's too big. 1576 01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:14.399 For a minute, it's incredible, Like that's an uncanny thing 1577 01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:16.960 that you cannot properly quantify. 1578 01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:17.720 You just watch a. 1579 01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:19.560 Guy do that over and over and you go like, Yeah, 1580 01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:23.399 that dude is clutched by definition, and he's got something 1581 01:15:23.439 --> 01:15:25.960 special and it's harder to find. You just know it 1582 01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:26.600 when you see it. 1583 01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:28.840 I know you're not big on predictions, but before I 1584 01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:31.600 say you lose, I'll ask you like this, like the 1585 01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.119 rest of the free world. I picked Oklahoma City to 1586 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:37.359 win the series. I said five games. They'll have to 1587 01:15:37.399 --> 01:15:40.800 win four straight to do that. I still lean that way. 1588 01:15:40.880 --> 01:15:42.319 I don't know that I feel like it's five. And 1589 01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:45.239 I also I will put the disclaimer that as a 1590 01:15:45.279 --> 01:15:47.720 basketball fan, I just want to see really good games, 1591 01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:49.880 and I would love to see seven really good games. 1592 01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:52.199 If that was the case, it would be awesome or 1593 01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:55.600 one for one. Oklahoma City has already been installed as 1594 01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:58.520 a ten point five point favorite on Sunday night, So 1595 01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:00.600 I know you're not big on prediction, but as far 1596 01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:03.159 as what you saw last night, do you do you 1597 01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:07.960 feel like you know there's still a genuine possibility that 1598 01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:10.279 OKAC makes this a short series. Does it feel like 1599 01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:12.039 it's gonna be long with a lot of really close, 1600 01:16:12.039 --> 01:16:12.600 fun games. 1601 01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:13.680 Yeah. 1602 01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:16.239 I picked Oklahoma in five as well. Before the series started, 1603 01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:21.079 so I was present for and covering Lakers six Ers 1604 01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:23.880 back in the day when the Sixers stunned them in 1605 01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:28.000 Game one yep, first first postseason loss of that postseason 1606 01:16:28.199 --> 01:16:30.439 for the Lakers, and then the Lakers just stomped them 1607 01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:32.760 for the next four games. That's a little different when 1608 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:35.439 you you know you got Shack. Shay is awesome, but 1609 01:16:35.479 --> 01:16:39.840 he's not Shack, and I don't expect we're going to 1610 01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:43.880 see that play out. So probably the thunder and five 1611 01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.479 that you and I both picked is probably not the case. 1612 01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:49.960 But thunder and six certainly feels like a possibility. But 1613 01:16:50.079 --> 01:16:54.359 like I mean, there's a certain point where, no matter 1614 01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:57.239 how many times we see it, we're still a little 1615 01:16:57.680 --> 01:17:00.920 not just skeptical the Pacers. It's not disrespect just like, yeah, 1616 01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:03.479 the thunder just have more there's more reasons to believe 1617 01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:05.159 in them than the Pacers at this stage. But when 1618 01:17:05.159 --> 01:17:07.560 the Pacers have done what they've done over and over 1619 01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.159 again to find expectations so many times, taken down all 1620 01:17:11.159 --> 01:17:14.640 these teams that were higher ranked and with better records, 1621 01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:17.960 at a certain point, maybe we should just sit back 1622 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:21.199 and say this series is not as clear cut as 1623 01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:23.439 we thought it was, and maybe the Pacers can win 1624 01:17:23.479 --> 01:17:26.720 this thing. And look, they stole home court advantage, hit 1625 01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:29.680 they won in one of the toughest buildings in the NBA. 1626 01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:32.640 I'm done predicting. 1627 01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:33.399 How about that? 1628 01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:37.640 What does a hip Brooklyn NBA rider do with two 1629 01:17:37.680 --> 01:17:39.680 free days on his hands in Oklahoma City? 1630 01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:44.159 I'm I'm working man like this. 1631 01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:47.439 It's not like days off, like there was no practices today. 1632 01:17:47.479 --> 01:17:49.760 That's how they always build the schedule. There's there's no 1633 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:52.680 availability after game one, but they have practice tomorrow and 1634 01:17:52.680 --> 01:17:55.439 then we'll have game two on Sunday. There's some downtime, 1635 01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:57.560 but like you know, listen, I'm making calls and trying 1636 01:17:57.560 --> 01:17:59.119 to find out what the dicks we're doing with tips 1637 01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.520 and trying to figure out, you know, working on some 1638 01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:02.760 other stories along the way. 1639 01:18:02.760 --> 01:18:03.000 Here. 1640 01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:06.640 I did hit my favorite breakfast spot here that I had. 1641 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:08.479 They do like an old day breakfast that I had 1642 01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:12.159 not been there in years. Kitchen three, two four, absolutely phenomenal. 1643 01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:16.640 Ran into multiple NBA types over there, so clearly the 1644 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.920 secret's out. There's no secret actually there. It was like 1645 01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:21.960 a forty five minute wait, but that's it. Like I'm going, 1646 01:18:22.000 --> 01:18:25.720 I'm just looking for good food, spence and trying not 1647 01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:27.960 to melt in the humidity out there. 1648 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:28.239 Okay. 1649 01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:30.520 I like the positive attitude. Howard, Thanks for the time, 1650 01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:32.159 have a great weekend and we'll chat soon. 1651 01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:34.279 Thanks buddy, all right, man Ticre. 1652 01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:36.800 Howard Beck covers the NBA for The Ringer. He has 1653 01:18:36.920 --> 01:18:40.039 been at Sports Illustrated, The New York Times, the La Times. 1654 01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:42.399 He's been one of my favorite NBA riders for probably 1655 01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:46.079 twenty five years now. I always appreciate Howard's time when 1656 01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:48.880 he stops by at Howard beck Is where you find 1657 01:18:48.920 --> 01:18:53.279 him on your preferred social media platform. His preferred social 1658 01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:55.640 media platform is not the one owned by the ex 1659 01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:57.600 best friend of the President of the United States. I'll 1660 01:18:57.640 --> 01:19:00.279 just leave that there. Stops bot today. Curtis about friends 1661 01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.760 at IFA country Stores. When the seasons change. If you're 1662 01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:04.640 like any good coach, you'll put together your game plan 1663 01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:06.840 for a healthy, green lawn and you'll turn to the 1664 01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:09.439 experts at IFA. Check out their four plus lawn care 1665 01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:12.359 program everything you need to make your art hit. It's 1666 01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:15.199 the ultimate lawn owner power move at IFA and IFA 1667 01:19:15.319 --> 01:19:17.560 dot co Op. This is our guy? Is this the 1668 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.000 guy I introduced you to while back? 1669 01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:23.800 Yes, yeah, this is our guy. Right, A little culter 1670 01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:24.159 for you? 1671 01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:25.520 Is it Culture Wall? 1672 01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:26.760 Yeah? That's great. 1673 01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:31.479 I was recently. I think you referenced that you liked 1674 01:19:31.479 --> 01:19:33.439 his music a few years back. Don't you go to 1675 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:34.960 his shows every time he comes to the. 1676 01:19:34.880 --> 01:19:37.960 Market, so I know his manager, that's why. So there's 1677 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:40.439 a help book some of his stuff actually booked his 1678 01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:42.640 first show in Salt Lake, which was for like a 1679 01:19:42.640 --> 01:19:46.600 few hundred people at the Urban Lounge. He's now playing 1680 01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:52.159 like stadiums, huge, huge festivals. So his first show was 1681 01:19:52.199 --> 01:19:54.680 like I think we had two hundred and seventy people 1682 01:19:54.680 --> 01:19:55.600 there at the Urban Lene. 1683 01:19:55.680 --> 01:19:56.960 He's playing stadiums now. 1684 01:19:57.880 --> 01:19:59.600 I don't know if there's been like a full stadium, 1685 01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:04.079 but big, big, big venues, like I think the last 1686 01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:07.399 one here was even just Redbute as a much bigger venue. 1687 01:20:07.439 --> 01:20:09.680 But he is, uh, he's doing much bigger shows. I 1688 01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:12.079 don't know if he would do a stadium, like if 1689 01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:14.159 you if you asked him, it might not be his 1690 01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:15.079 his scene. 1691 01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:17.319 Well, I think that the paycheck was right. You do 1692 01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:18.199 a stadium, wouldn't he? 1693 01:20:18.319 --> 01:20:19.560 That's fair, that's fair. 1694 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:21.840 Yeah, So I don't know. Maybe, like a month month 1695 01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:23.920 and a half ago, buddy of mine whose musical taste 1696 01:20:23.960 --> 01:20:25.319 I respect, was like, hey, have you heard of this 1697 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:27.319 culture wild guy? I'm like, yeah, my producer likes him. 1698 01:20:27.359 --> 01:20:31.439 He's like, he's great. So I've been listening a little bit. Uh, 1699 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:35.079 you know, it's uh, how what is it? How'd you 1700 01:20:35.159 --> 01:20:35.760 characterize it? 1701 01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:35.960 This? 1702 01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:40.399 This and culture perfectly encapsulates why our view of country 1703 01:20:40.479 --> 01:20:43.920 music is so different. I would say his is almost 1704 01:20:43.960 --> 01:20:49.399 more like country western, where country music that folks who 1705 01:20:49.479 --> 01:20:53.600 listened to Dave Matthews respectfully think of is like Alan Jackson, 1706 01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:58.600 it's like nineties. It's like, uh, it's Tim McGraw. It's 1707 01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:02.560 guys that, respect fully I don't even listen to and 1708 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:07.479 consider like a completely different form of country music. They're fine, 1709 01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:11.119 they have their their their lane. But yeah, that that 1710 01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:14.600 kind of uh says, the kind of shows the delineation there. 1711 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.840 So Culter's like, uh, he's like Luke Bryan, right, He's 1712 01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:21.439 like Luke's very much more so on the you know, 1713 01:21:22.119 --> 01:21:25.960 beer and jeans and all those guys have whiskey issues. 1714 01:21:25.960 --> 01:21:29.840 I'll tell you what, Like Morgan Wallen, you know Morgan Wallen. 1715 01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:30.800 Is I know who he is? 1716 01:21:31.039 --> 01:21:32.640 Is he He's what is he? 1717 01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:35.479 He's more new pop country pop country? 1718 01:21:35.560 --> 01:21:36.079 Is that the term? 1719 01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:38.359 So like Morgan Wallan's kind of like Zach Brian or 1720 01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:40.800 I'm just glad that the Ulter. 1721 01:21:40.720 --> 01:21:42.880 Wall plays music they would hear seventy years ago. 1722 01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:45.600 But I'm also glad that Coulter's name is Coulter and 1723 01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:47.880 not Luke or Zach or Brian because that's like all 1724 01:21:47.960 --> 01:21:52.319 the hybrids. But Morgan Wallen was on snl uh so 1725 01:21:52.399 --> 01:21:56.000 I heard a song. All it seems like all these 1726 01:21:56.039 --> 01:21:59.000 guys have this, like Zach Brian uh, Morgan wall And 1727 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:00.760 they all have the same song where it's like they 1728 01:22:00.840 --> 01:22:03.279 meet a girl, they like the girl, they drink whiskey, 1729 01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:05.079 they lose the girl, so they're singing about how they 1730 01:22:05.079 --> 01:22:06.720 shouldn't drink whiskey and get the girl back. 1731 01:22:06.960 --> 01:22:07.199 Yeah. 1732 01:22:07.720 --> 01:22:10.279 Yeah, And it's kind of like it just an overplayed 1733 01:22:10.319 --> 01:22:13.840 out version. It's like an overplayed out It sounds like 1734 01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:17.760 it was maybe written by Chad GBT version of a 1735 01:22:17.920 --> 01:22:19.880 song you've heard how many times? 1736 01:22:20.399 --> 01:22:23.399 Yeah, that's that's kind of why I don't really go 1737 01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:26.359 down that line. Do you like Do you like cold 1738 01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:28.039 as much as you like land Law? Is that the 1739 01:22:28.119 --> 01:22:30.680 same type of feel? How are our guys doing, dude? 1740 01:22:30.680 --> 01:22:32.760 I haven't checked in our guys landlaw for a while. 1741 01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:37.359 Good dude, I'm telling you this is I often mock 1742 01:22:37.479 --> 01:22:40.840 social media because I really think it's a cesspool and 1743 01:22:41.039 --> 01:22:43.720 arguing on the internet with strangers. It's a sign of 1744 01:22:43.760 --> 01:22:46.840 mental illness in my opinion, and it really does turn 1745 01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:50.319 into you know, mentally ild people throwing their feces at 1746 01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:53.600 each other. But if you get in a rabbit hole, 1747 01:22:54.199 --> 01:22:56.479 I can fall down as much as anybody else. And 1748 01:22:56.600 --> 01:23:00.720 when I first heard our guys land law A, I 1749 01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:03.720 thought it was fake b respectfully, I thought there was 1750 01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:07.760 something wrong with them, right, But see I couldn't stop 1751 01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:10.960 watching videos, like they would send out videos of their 1752 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:14.680 live performance just stoked that they got like booked into 1753 01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:17.880 some bar and the lead singer would turn the fun around. 1754 01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:20.960 There's like seven people in the venue that probably didn't 1755 01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:24.279 know that this fake country band was there to play music. 1756 01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:28.319 It's one of my favorite slash least favorite things about 1757 01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:32.800 the Internet and about social media is that it can 1758 01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:38.439 turn and listen. I'm not speaking down on them. Folks 1759 01:23:38.439 --> 01:23:43.479 who don't necessarily have the talent to or historically would 1760 01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:45.399 have had the talent to make it big. Well, they 1761 01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:48.600 can still be famous, but it might be because people 1762 01:23:48.680 --> 01:23:52.520 are making fun or because there's you know, there's some 1763 01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:56.119 ironic tie into it. And yeah, the folks you were 1764 01:23:56.119 --> 01:23:58.720 talking about are are two brothers I believe somewhere in 1765 01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:03.760 the South who are just the corniest, silliest. 1766 01:24:03.319 --> 01:24:05.239 Dudes, and that they're so bad, but. 1767 01:24:05.560 --> 01:24:08.039 Oh they're awful. But there's like something endearing about it, 1768 01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:14.520 so that they're getting like this weird weird uh I 1769 01:24:14.560 --> 01:24:23.199 guess response of like supportive critique slash ironic support. It's 1770 01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:24.520 it's been fun to watch see but. 1771 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:28.119 You can't support that. Here's the problem. Like, but before 1772 01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:32.399 social media, you didn't hear a band or see it 1773 01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:34.600 banned until they had honed their craft and they're actually 1774 01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:36.920 worth watching or listening to. But now you can make 1775 01:24:37.039 --> 01:24:40.319 money off of the clicks you get just for being bad, 1776 01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:43.239 which is so wild. And you know I'm guilty because 1777 01:24:43.239 --> 01:24:45.720 I'm telling you. One night I watched every video those 1778 01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:50.560 guys have posted, and every single one is so bad. 1779 01:24:51.079 --> 01:24:53.359 There's a lot of them, dude, there are there are. 1780 01:24:54.279 --> 01:24:59.000 If you like accidentally get your Instagram algorithm down that 1781 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:02.640 rabbit hole, you'll see a lot of bad music. 1782 01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:07.560 You sent me one of a young lady and bless 1783 01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:11.640 her heart, keep making music like that? Was that that 1784 01:25:12.039 --> 01:25:14.720 actually put me in a bad mood her her videos 1785 01:25:14.840 --> 01:25:18.800 because she's walking towards the camera, you know, and I 1786 01:25:18.840 --> 01:25:20.600 don't know, do you remember her name? She would give 1787 01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:23.800 her a little love since we're mocking her in let's 1788 01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:25.560 get a little Landla on the show before we say 1789 01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:28.119 good night that one song they have, I think it's 1790 01:25:28.199 --> 01:25:31.199 only one song, all right. University of Utah has a 1791 01:25:31.359 --> 01:25:34.840 new basketball commit. He is a point guard. His name 1792 01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:38.680 is Ela Marie Abby. He is a finish point guard. 1793 01:25:39.479 --> 01:25:42.920 So Elamrie Abby becomes the ninth edition to the new 1794 01:25:43.039 --> 01:25:46.720 running Utes roster. So, of course Alex Jensen the new staff. 1795 01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:49.520 A lot of attention is down south right now, with 1796 01:25:49.640 --> 01:25:53.840 Kevin Young receiving a contract extension and aj Debons on 1797 01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:55.640 his way as the number one recruit in the country. 1798 01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:59.239 They've got a team. If I had guess pre season 1799 01:25:59.439 --> 01:26:01.800 by U was gonna be scratching in the top five. 1800 01:26:02.119 --> 01:26:04.760 Like that's how talented that roster is. And when it 1801 01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:07.279 comes to the University of Utah with his new project 1802 01:26:07.680 --> 01:26:11.479 Project under Al, it's gonna take time. It's gonna take time, 1803 01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:13.880 it's gonna take patience. I'm sure you basketball fans are 1804 01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:16.439 sick of that. I'm certainly not gonna sit here and 1805 01:26:16.520 --> 01:26:18.720 be the radio host that tells you I watch finish 1806 01:26:18.880 --> 01:26:20.880 basketball when I'm done with the show, I don't know. 1807 01:26:21.239 --> 01:26:23.720 I don't know anything about this kid, but we'll just 1808 01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:26.079 kind of go over some of the pieces of information. 1809 01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:29.520 So he comes to the University of Utah from Finland's 1810 01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:32.720 top basketball league, and they have some good basketball in Finland, obviously, 1811 01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:36.079 Larry Marketing six foot, one hundred and eighty pounds, twenty 1812 01:26:36.119 --> 01:26:38.840 seven games average, twenty point six boards, five assists, and 1813 01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:41.800 twenty seven minutes of action. Those are really good numbers. Uh, 1814 01:26:42.119 --> 01:26:45.640 forty eight point five percent from the floor, twenty seven 1815 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:49.479 percent from three, not good fifty seven percent from two. 1816 01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:53.239 So if you look at some of these highlights, he's 1817 01:26:53.279 --> 01:26:54.560 pretty crafty around the rim. 1818 01:26:55.479 --> 01:26:56.399 Not a big dude. 1819 01:26:57.199 --> 01:27:00.760 But again, the ninth commit so Baba kar Faye, ton McHenry, 1820 01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:05.520 s Do Treiori, Jakari Howard, Elijah Moore, James Konkoo, Kendall Sanders, 1821 01:27:05.640 --> 01:27:09.439 Terrence Brown. So Utah's roster now is at twelve players 1822 01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:13.600 with three roster spots open, and we'll see. I mean, 1823 01:27:13.720 --> 01:27:17.239 ultimately the staff is in place and the foundation is 1824 01:27:17.279 --> 01:27:20.159 in place. This is going to be a long game. 1825 01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:24.159 And I believe Alex received a five year contract to 1826 01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:26.199 be the head coach of the University of Utah, so 1827 01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:28.159 I would give him all five of those years. This 1828 01:27:28.279 --> 01:27:30.840 is going to take some time, and of course, when 1829 01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:33.319 you juxtaposted to what BYU's been able to do and 1830 01:27:33.399 --> 01:27:36.680 only one year under Kevin Young. If that's how you view, 1831 01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:39.279 if that's your prism, you know, whatever Utah does, what's 1832 01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:41.279 by you doing, It's going to take a long long 1833 01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:45.680 time before al has a situation where Kevin Young was 1834 01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:49.079 able to, you know, cultivate things pretty quickly in one year. 1835 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:51.439 So there you go a little bit of University of 1836 01:27:51.560 --> 01:27:54.840 Utah basketball news. As a finished point guard named Ella 1837 01:27:54.880 --> 01:27:57.119 Murrie Abbey is committed to play for Alex Jensen the 1838 01:27:57.159 --> 01:28:02.600 University of Utah. All right, The updates their top one 1839 01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:08.039 hundred players in pro basketball rather often. They updated it 1840 01:28:08.159 --> 01:28:11.880 today and clearly they updated it to put Tyree Saliburton 1841 01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:14.800 in their top ten. So, according to the Ringer, as 1842 01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:17.600 of today, their top ten basketball players in pro basketball 1843 01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:21.840 number one, Nikola Jokich, number two, Shay Gilgess, Alexander number three, 1844 01:28:21.880 --> 01:28:25.760 Giannis number four, Luca number five, Steph number six, ant 1845 01:28:26.199 --> 01:28:30.039 Tyree Saliburton at seven, now Donovan Mitchell at eight, Top 1846 01:28:30.119 --> 01:28:33.359 ten player Jazz traded when he was twenty five, Jalen 1847 01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:37.840 Brunton at nine, Jason Tatum is a ten, Victor Wambayamo eleven. 1848 01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:41.000 Lebron's at twelve, ad at thirteen kevindurand fourteen that it 1849 01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:45.520 goes Kawhi caid Evan Mobley, Karl Anthony Towns, Devin Booker, 1850 01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:50.039 Jalen Williams. There's your Top twenty. The Utah Jazz are 1851 01:28:50.119 --> 01:28:53.119 the only team in pro basketball, according to the Ringer, 1852 01:28:53.279 --> 01:28:57.600 with a single player in the top one hundred. They're 1853 01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:00.880 the only team in the NBA that does not have 1854 01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:04.520 a player in the top fifty. Lowry Marketing is the 1855 01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:06.640 only Jazz player in the Ringers Top one hundred. He 1856 01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:11.119 comes in at fifty three. That feels low in my opinion. 1857 01:29:12.479 --> 01:29:17.079 But yeah, they ultimately update this rather consistently, and I 1858 01:29:17.239 --> 01:29:19.479 was surprised to see. I thought Lowry would be somewhere 1859 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:22.760 in the early thirties. Maybe Walker sneaks in the top 1860 01:29:22.840 --> 01:29:25.800 one hundred, but this is coming off a season where 1861 01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:29.039 neither of those two played every game they should have, 1862 01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:32.439 and their minutes were limited, and Walker was encouraged to 1863 01:29:32.439 --> 01:29:34.880 shoot a bunch of threes down the stretch when the 1864 01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:37.159 Jazz got fined for sitting their players, so they had 1865 01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:40.039 to find another way to be unserious about competing. But 1866 01:29:40.199 --> 01:29:42.760 that dropped not too long ago. The Ringers Top one 1867 01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:46.000 hundred players in the NBA. All right, time now for 1868 01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:49.279 our U went to Golf PGA Tour update as far 1869 01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:53.039 as the leaderboard goes, and the world of the PGA 1870 01:29:53.159 --> 01:29:57.239 Tour has their eyes on the RBC Canadian Open, TPC 1871 01:29:57.399 --> 01:30:00.399 Toronto at Ospbrey Valley is their north course. Cameron, who 1872 01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:03.199 want a corn ferry events here in our market? Is 1873 01:30:03.239 --> 01:30:05.640 your leader through two rounds at twelve hundred par, Andrew 1874 01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:08.479 Putnam at ten under par. Then a couple of Canucks, 1875 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:10.680 a couple of Canadians Richard Lee and Nick Taylor at 1876 01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:14.640 nine under. Let's see Shane Lowry might be the biggest name. 1877 01:30:14.680 --> 01:30:16.600 He's at eight hunderd par. Bill sam Burns is up 1878 01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:19.319 there as well. So it is the RBC Canadian Open, 1879 01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:22.000 and that is your You went to Golf PGA Tour 1880 01:30:22.079 --> 01:30:25.319 Leaderboard update. Check him out at Worldwide Golf Shops dot com. 1881 01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:28.399 Five U Tadler. You went to locations. They've got the 1882 01:30:28.439 --> 01:30:31.840 best deals on callaway titleist Taylor Taylor made and Ping 1883 01:30:32.039 --> 01:30:35.399 Bushnell as well for the range fighter stuff. All right, 1884 01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:38.840 let's welcome in Colton now head brewer at Roosters on 1885 01:30:38.920 --> 01:30:40.680 a Friday, Colton, Happy Friday Man, how are you. 1886 01:30:44.119 --> 01:30:44.840 Hello, Colton? 1887 01:30:45.920 --> 01:30:46.680 Hello, can you hear me? 1888 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:46.960 Yeah? 1889 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:47.960 I got you. How you doing, man? 1890 01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:49.439 I'm doing really good? 1891 01:30:49.479 --> 01:30:49.760 How much? 1892 01:30:49.840 --> 01:30:49.880 So? 1893 01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:50.399 Well? 1894 01:30:50.399 --> 01:30:53.279 I appreciate the time. So Roosters Brewing Company, you guys 1895 01:30:53.319 --> 01:30:55.760 are celebrating thirty years this summer. What do you want 1896 01:30:55.760 --> 01:30:56.479 our listeners to know? 1897 01:30:57.880 --> 01:31:00.199 Well, let's see, so we're doing our well three your 1898 01:31:00.199 --> 01:31:03.680 anniversary party the end of the month around oh what 1899 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.159 is it, June twenty second on a or sorry, June 1900 01:31:06.199 --> 01:31:09.399 twenty first, on that Saturday, I'm gonna be doing noon 1901 01:31:09.479 --> 01:31:12.000 to four with at our twenty fifth Street location out 1902 01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:15.600 in Ogden. And we've got some old goodies coming back, 1903 01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:17.239 like our We've got our two bit of Amber beer 1904 01:31:18.680 --> 01:31:21.279 out in cams. You can find them around, have them 1905 01:31:21.319 --> 01:31:24.720 on draft all the locations. And yeah, we're going to 1906 01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:27.079 be having an old food favorites up on special all 1907 01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:29.520 summer and all that. So I'll get this some stop 1908 01:31:29.560 --> 01:31:30.399 in check stuff out. 1909 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:33.039 Tell me about your High Desert, hazy ipa. 1910 01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:37.399 So, our High Desert is probably one of our best 1911 01:31:37.439 --> 01:31:41.000 sellers in all of the all austy. It's it's good. 1912 01:31:41.239 --> 01:31:44.199 It's a nice and tropical, light refreshing, good for a 1913 01:31:44.319 --> 01:31:45.640 nice hot Summer. 1914 01:31:45.479 --> 01:31:48.159 Day two locations as well as the twenty one plus 1915 01:31:48.279 --> 01:31:50.680 tap room in Ogden. Tell me about that tap room. 1916 01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:52.079 I've never been up there. What's alike? 1917 01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:55.920 So that's actually our production facility that's got our tap 1918 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:56.800 room attached to it. 1919 01:31:56.880 --> 01:31:57.880 So twenty one year older. 1920 01:31:57.920 --> 01:31:58.560 So it is a bar. 1921 01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:02.600 Leave the kiddos at home and it's it's just a 1922 01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:04.520 it's a really cool spot. We've got a really nice 1923 01:32:04.520 --> 01:32:08.319 statio right there, well pretty close to the Ogden or 1924 01:32:08.359 --> 01:32:11.119 the Weaver River. It's it's just nice. It's a it's 1925 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:12.640 a great place to have a beer in the afternoon 1926 01:32:12.800 --> 01:32:13.479 on the thatio. 1927 01:32:13.880 --> 01:32:16.279 All right, since you are the head brewer, I've got 1928 01:32:16.359 --> 01:32:18.680 to ask you, what is the one beer you've created 1929 01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:19.720 you're most proud of? 1930 01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:24.479 Golden Ooh, that's that's that's a difficult one. I'd say 1931 01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:28.680 my most one of my most recent ones that I've 1932 01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:33.279 came up with. It's a chili line goza that came 1933 01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:37.199 out just absolutely phenomenal, trying to go after the taheen 1934 01:32:37.279 --> 01:32:41.439 flavor and accomplished it. So very unique, different style type 1935 01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:43.239 of beer, but it was it was really fun to make. 1936 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.880 All right, man, Well, congrats on the thirty years appreciate 1937 01:32:45.960 --> 01:32:46.960 the time, have a good weekend. 1938 01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:48.600 Okay is well? 1939 01:32:48.680 --> 01:32:48.920 Thank you. 1940 01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:52.520 Rooster's Brewing Company celebrating thirty years this summer, throwing it 1941 01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:55.119 back to nineteen ninety five and historic twenty fifth Street 1942 01:32:55.119 --> 01:32:57.680 where it all began. Two locations as well as a 1943 01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:00.800 twenty one plus tap room in Ogden for either summer 1944 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:03.640 seasonals including the High Desert Hazy Ipa or one of 1945 01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:06.239 the originals Two Bit Amber, or on a special anniversary 1946 01:33:06.279 --> 01:33:09.319 run this summer. They've got fresh food pairings and throwbacks 1947 01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:11.880 to the original menu, and they're being featured all summer long. 1948 01:33:12.039 --> 01:33:15.239 Cheers to thirty years our good friends at Rooster's Brewing. 1949 01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:18.199 I'm on loan from The Athletic and host of the 1950 01:33:18.279 --> 01:33:22.920 Cinephobe podcast ESPN seven hundred. Welcome Zach Harper with the 1951 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:24.479 NBA Daily Assist. 1952 01:33:24.840 --> 01:33:26.560 What if I just leaned into it? What if I 1953 01:33:26.640 --> 01:33:29.359 started like digging pit Bull? Would you still play pit Bull? 1954 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:31.800 If I actually because you only do this to ruin 1955 01:33:31.880 --> 01:33:34.800 my friday? If I leaned into it and pretended I 1956 01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:36.079 enjoy it, could we stop it? 1957 01:33:37.319 --> 01:33:37.359 No? 1958 01:33:38.439 --> 01:33:40.920 No, if you lean in, we're gonna We're gonna lean 1959 01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:41.439 in as well. 1960 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:44.920 We're married to it. Well, you know what that means. Ultimately, 1961 01:33:45.079 --> 01:33:47.199 when pit Bull is played on this radio show, it 1962 01:33:47.279 --> 01:33:50.279 means it's time for the regular appearance of one Zach 1963 01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:54.000 Harper on a Friday afternoon. Mister Harper, Happy Friday. Where 1964 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:54.600 do we find you. 1965 01:33:56.199 --> 01:33:56.960 In Los Angeles? 1966 01:33:57.920 --> 01:33:59.479 How'd you get out of going Oklahoma City? 1967 01:34:01.119 --> 01:34:03.920 I'm doing the live streams for the NBA for the 1968 01:34:04.319 --> 01:34:06.199 pregame show on their app, so you know it's better 1969 01:34:06.239 --> 01:34:08.479 if I'm in a stable internet connection. 1970 01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:12.079 Well, congratulations to you, sir, Thank you. Is this the 1971 01:34:12.119 --> 01:34:13.760 first time? Is this the first year you've done that? 1972 01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:16.119 And I noticed I saw some of your social posts? 1973 01:34:16.199 --> 01:34:17.319 Is this the first year you've done that? 1974 01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:20.000 No, I did it. I did it last year. 1975 01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:22.079 It's just it was such a quick finals. 1976 01:34:22.119 --> 01:34:24.119 We didn't hard to notice. 1977 01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:26.520 Tell everybody where they can go find it, Zach. 1978 01:34:27.560 --> 01:34:29.079 You just go straight to the NBA app or a 1979 01:34:29.119 --> 01:34:33.279 belief on any of their socials, Instagram, ticktok, any of 1980 01:34:33.279 --> 01:34:33.920 that stuff. Yeah. 1981 01:34:34.039 --> 01:34:36.720 All right, Well let's start with the finals and we'll 1982 01:34:37.119 --> 01:34:39.399 move in some other directions, including a hire that was 1983 01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:41.840 made out this way. But I'll tell you what man like, 1984 01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:44.560 I feel like you. I mean, I'm not sure who 1985 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:47.039 you picked. My guess is, like everybody else, you probably 1986 01:34:47.119 --> 01:34:51.159 picked OKC. I picked OKC in five. They'd have to 1987 01:34:51.199 --> 01:34:53.880 win four straight now, and maybe that's still on the table. 1988 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:56.960 And I don't know what else to say about this 1989 01:34:57.119 --> 01:35:00.239 Pacers team. And I just hate the Pacers, but I'm 1990 01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:04.000 just so impressed that they just don't quit until the 1991 01:35:04.119 --> 01:35:06.680 Zeros are on that clock you take away from Game one. 1992 01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:09.840 Yeah, I mean I had the Pacers to win last night, 1993 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:12.800 but I had Thunder and six. I mean, this team's 1994 01:35:12.840 --> 01:35:15.520 just good. You know, they're really good, and they don't 1995 01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:20.079 give up like you said, and you know it's funny, like, yo, 1996 01:35:20.319 --> 01:35:24.600 this is what their fifth comeback in this postseason down 1997 01:35:24.720 --> 01:35:29.119 fifteen or more. It's just absurd. And and there's a 1998 01:35:29.239 --> 01:35:32.800 point where I have to think that even a team 1999 01:35:32.920 --> 01:35:35.600 like the Thunder, you know, there's a point where you're 2000 01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:38.239 up double digits and it's getting late into the fourth quarter, 2001 01:35:38.319 --> 01:35:40.800 and then once they get into that single digit territory, 2002 01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:43.640 You've got to know what's possible here, right, not just 2003 01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:46.479 because it's an NBA game, because it's this Pacers team. 2004 01:35:47.079 --> 01:35:50.199 And it wasn't just Tyre's Haliverton going nuts, it was 2005 01:35:50.840 --> 01:35:52.920 obi top and hit some threes, and Miles Turner hit 2006 01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:55.680 some threes, and Nemhart hit a shot and Pascal Siaskon 2007 01:35:55.760 --> 01:35:59.159 got to rebound it. It's just it's everybody, you know, 2008 01:35:59.279 --> 01:36:01.600 no one had a good game. Everyone just had solid 2009 01:36:01.680 --> 01:36:05.159 games last night. And for you to force them into 2010 01:36:05.359 --> 01:36:09.640 twenty five turnovers and only get eleven points off those 2011 01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:15.359 turnovers is ridiculous. I mean, that is just incredible, you know, 2012 01:36:15.560 --> 01:36:20.239 incredible basketball by the Pacers. It's rare. It's almost incomprehensible 2013 01:36:20.239 --> 01:36:23.640 to say a team played great basketball after turning the 2014 01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:27.279 ball over twenty five times. But they reacted well to 2015 01:36:27.359 --> 01:36:30.000 those moments. Because we've seen so many teams, i mean 2016 01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:32.960 throughout this playoffs, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Denver Nuggets, the 2017 01:36:33.039 --> 01:36:36.560 Minnesota Timberwolves, they get those turnovers and they just let 2018 01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:39.199 it defeat them. And the Pacers they're just not built 2019 01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:39.600 that way. 2020 01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:43.399 Was there any point last night that you thought Oklahoma 2021 01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:45.560 City had a wrapped up I've been talking to our 2022 01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:48.079 guest today, so watching the game last night with a 2023 01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:51.520 few buddies, and when Sga hit that layup that I 2024 01:36:51.560 --> 01:36:54.600 think put them up seven with like ninety seconds left 2025 01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:57.359 or whatever, one of my buddies is like, yeah, okay, 2026 01:36:57.399 --> 01:36:59.119 that should probably do it. I'm like, okay, you haven't 2027 01:36:59.159 --> 01:37:00.479 watched all. 2028 01:37:02.039 --> 01:37:02.560 And I get it. 2029 01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:05.960 I mean, you and I are basketball sickos. But it's 2030 01:37:06.279 --> 01:37:09.640 you know, the Knick series was interesting because there's an 2031 01:37:09.680 --> 01:37:11.960 emotional thing and I just know as a Nick fan, 2032 01:37:12.039 --> 01:37:13.960 if it can go round, it probably will. But at 2033 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:17.439 no point did I think Oklahoma City had that wrapped up, 2034 01:37:17.479 --> 01:37:19.239 even when they're up fifteen and the fourth, when they're 2035 01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:21.680 up seven with ninety, At any point did you think, okay, 2036 01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:22.640 o case, he's got this. 2037 01:37:24.279 --> 01:37:27.520 I when when Sga went up for that jumper on 2038 01:37:27.640 --> 01:37:31.199 that final possession that would have put it up three. 2039 01:37:31.319 --> 01:37:32.640 As he goes up for that jumper, I thought he 2040 01:37:32.720 --> 01:37:34.119 was going to hit it, and if he hits that, 2041 01:37:34.239 --> 01:37:36.560 I thought, okay, they're probably good, even though it only 2042 01:37:36.600 --> 01:37:38.800 pushes it to three. And obviously you can easily tie 2043 01:37:38.840 --> 01:37:40.520 the game on the next possession, but we know that 2044 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:43.119 the thunder are then going to foul and we're going 2045 01:37:43.159 --> 01:37:46.439 to get into that whole nonsense of intentional fouls there, right, 2046 01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:48.800 So as he goes up for I'm thinking, all right, 2047 01:37:48.840 --> 01:37:51.680 he's he's got this. They've got this. Once that goes 2048 01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:54.800 in once that missed and they got the ball to 2049 01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:57.560 Halliburn and I saw they weren't calling time out. That's 2050 01:37:57.600 --> 01:38:00.520 when I thought, oh no, this is going to happen again. 2051 01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:02.640 And then they didn't throw a double at Hallie, they 2052 01:38:02.680 --> 01:38:04.920 didn't rush him at all. They let him just walk 2053 01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:07.319 into a pull up jumper. And as soon as he 2054 01:38:07.399 --> 01:38:10.039 let that thing go, you just knew. You just knew, 2055 01:38:10.039 --> 01:38:13.199 because he's done it for you know, four times now 2056 01:38:13.319 --> 01:38:16.920 in this postseason. I mean, that guy is just as 2057 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:18.840 clutch as it gets. He is. 2058 01:38:19.159 --> 01:38:21.960 And you know, while I do not do first take radio, 2059 01:38:22.279 --> 01:38:25.520 I do want to ask your opinion, just don't kind 2060 01:38:25.560 --> 01:38:27.840 of where he exists, like the whole moniker of like 2061 01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:28.840 is he a superstar? 2062 01:38:28.960 --> 01:38:29.199 Is he not? 2063 01:38:29.399 --> 01:38:31.760 I suppose that's either the beholder stuff and other people 2064 01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:34.640 can debate it back and forth. And I certainly wouldn't 2065 01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:37.560 put him up there with Jokic or Luca or whoever. 2066 01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:42.239 But you know, as he continues to silence people, and look, 2067 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.159 if we're honest, for about thirty minutes, our guy was 2068 01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:47.359 a wallflower last night and I'm watching the game, I'm like, 2069 01:38:47.399 --> 01:38:47.840 where is he? 2070 01:38:47.920 --> 01:38:48.399 Where are you? 2071 01:38:48.560 --> 01:38:48.600 Like? 2072 01:38:48.680 --> 01:38:52.239 Put your stamp on this game, but ultimately winning games 2073 01:38:52.319 --> 01:38:55.079 the way he has And he is a lead guard, 2074 01:38:55.239 --> 01:38:57.439 so if he's not scoring, he is doing other things. 2075 01:38:57.560 --> 01:38:59.840 And he rebounded well last night and he only had 2076 01:39:00.039 --> 01:39:03.359 returnovers in thirty nine minutes. Is the main ball handler 2077 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:05.800 against one of the best defenses we've seen in a generation. 2078 01:39:06.359 --> 01:39:08.760 And I don't I'm not saying like is he top five, 2079 01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:11.720 six or seven, whatever, but like generally speaking, where is 2080 01:39:11.840 --> 01:39:14.439 his cul de sac in pro basketball right now? Where 2081 01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:14.880 does he live? 2082 01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:18.159 Yeah, he's a superstar. I mean, this dude's been doing 2083 01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:21.399 it for two years now. And Okay, he's not Steph 2084 01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:25.039 and he's not SGA and okay, but we've seen him 2085 01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:28.119 prove himself time and time again. He's a big shot 2086 01:39:28.199 --> 01:39:31.840 maker like I and he's a guy that's leading a 2087 01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:32.720 really good team. 2088 01:39:32.840 --> 01:39:33.960 Just led them to the finals. 2089 01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:36.039 And look, we can't do the thing this year of 2090 01:39:36.319 --> 01:39:38.199 what we did last year with them. Last year's like, oh, yeah, 2091 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:40.039 they got to the conference finals because of injuries? Yeah, 2092 01:39:40.039 --> 01:39:42.199 probably right, Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 2093 01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:45.199 You know, New York got really injured in that series, 2094 01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:48.159 and I think if New York stays relatively healthy, they 2095 01:39:48.279 --> 01:39:51.359 end up winning that game seven this year. You can't 2096 01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:52.920 say that, I'm not having that with the Bucks. They 2097 01:39:52.960 --> 01:39:54.560 were beating the Bucks in that series, no matter what. 2098 01:39:54.640 --> 01:39:56.399 I'm not having that with the Calves. They're beating the 2099 01:39:56.479 --> 01:39:59.000 Calves no matter what. Like that Caves team is weak. 2100 01:39:59.439 --> 01:40:01.760 And then and then you know, that Knick series was 2101 01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:03.840 really good. I think it could have gone either way 2102 01:40:05.279 --> 01:40:07.239 in a lot of those games, and they ended up 2103 01:40:07.239 --> 01:40:09.720 pulling it out because he was great. And this is 2104 01:40:09.760 --> 01:40:13.000 a guy that is an elite leader on the court. 2105 01:40:13.079 --> 01:40:16.119 He's an elite clutch player. He's one of the best 2106 01:40:16.159 --> 01:40:19.319 point guards in the world, and you trust him with 2107 01:40:19.359 --> 01:40:21.520 the ball, and I'm with you, Like there's points where 2108 01:40:21.560 --> 01:40:23.520 you're like, man, is he going to put his stamp 2109 01:40:23.600 --> 01:40:26.359 on this game? You know, as that game's going on, 2110 01:40:26.800 --> 01:40:29.800 And I'm not putting him in this category, but he's 2111 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:32.520 you know, we see that with Steph Curry at times too, right, 2112 01:40:32.760 --> 01:40:34.239 Like Steph will kind of just kind of buy his 2113 01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:36.319 time by this time. By this time, I think Tyree's 2114 01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:38.239 kind of lets the game come to him until a 2115 01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.880 certain point. And a big part of that is while 2116 01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:44.279 Steph is creating gravity, you know through his movement and everything, 2117 01:40:44.680 --> 01:40:47.000 Tyreese is just he's slinging that thing around the court, 2118 01:40:47.079 --> 01:40:48.560 and he played good defense and as you mentioned, he 2119 01:40:48.640 --> 01:40:52.000 rebounded really well. You know, he's someone that is still 2120 01:40:52.600 --> 01:40:56.119 contributing to winning basketball, and I think he is a 2121 01:40:56.319 --> 01:40:59.199 big part of the reason why they don't give up. 2122 01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:02.239 Even if he's not one hitting the shots, he's leading 2123 01:41:02.319 --> 01:41:03.000 that whole thing. 2124 01:41:03.920 --> 01:41:06.880 Yeah, and the stat you referenced is the stat that 2125 01:41:07.199 --> 01:41:10.119 stands out led the show with it, like Oklahoma City 2126 01:41:10.920 --> 01:41:15.399 is a lead at forcing turnovers and scoring off of turnovers. 2127 01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:18.600 But if you're turning twenty four turnovers into eleven points, 2128 01:41:19.279 --> 01:41:22.640 like there's a world Zach. At halftime, Indiana should have 2129 01:41:22.640 --> 01:41:25.640 been out twenty five, you know. And we heard Rick 2130 01:41:25.680 --> 01:41:28.239 Carlisle in the locker room like, it's not good news. 2131 01:41:28.319 --> 01:41:30.239 We're turning over like this, but it's a miracle. We're 2132 01:41:30.239 --> 01:41:33.640 still We're still in the game. And for about man, 2133 01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:36.279 I don't know, maybe forty minutes of the forty eight, 2134 01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:40.239 Oklahoma City seemed to be in this like we're up 2135 01:41:40.520 --> 01:41:43.560 between seven and thirteen and we can't extend it beyond that. 2136 01:41:43.760 --> 01:41:46.520 But every time they kind of creep closer, you know, 2137 01:41:46.600 --> 01:41:49.680 we're able to find an answer but because of their 2138 01:41:49.720 --> 01:41:53.359 inability to turn those turnovers into points. I'm watching the 2139 01:41:53.399 --> 01:41:56.399 score and I'm thinking, like, this is so far from over. 2140 01:41:57.039 --> 01:42:00.399 So if you're Indiana, you could feel really good about 2141 01:42:00.439 --> 01:42:02.119 the fact that you're up one zero and you turned 2142 01:42:02.119 --> 01:42:04.319 it over that much. But do you believe that Oklahoma 2143 01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:07.880 City will continue to have a problem converting turnovers into 2144 01:42:07.920 --> 01:42:10.239 points because they've been so elde at it all year long? 2145 01:42:11.279 --> 01:42:13.239 No, but you also can't think that you're going to 2146 01:42:13.279 --> 01:42:15.840 turn over twenty five times, sure, right, Like this is 2147 01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:18.359 the tenth game counting the playoffs this year where they've 2148 01:42:18.399 --> 01:42:21.479 turned it over twenty or more times. And this, I mean, 2149 01:42:21.520 --> 01:42:23.079 this is one of the best teams in the league 2150 01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:26.359 at not turning the ball over. And even Hallibert, you know, 2151 01:42:26.439 --> 01:42:28.960 you mentioned the three turnovers. That's a lot for him. 2152 01:42:29.399 --> 01:42:31.680 He doesn't turn the ball over three times in a game. 2153 01:42:31.920 --> 01:42:33.479 And all those came in the first half. So he 2154 01:42:33.560 --> 01:42:35.359 corrected that at halftime, like he didn't have one in 2155 01:42:35.399 --> 01:42:38.439 the second half, I believe, And so you know, like 2156 01:42:38.520 --> 01:42:41.880 Obi Toping looked like he was he was so scared 2157 01:42:42.319 --> 01:42:44.079 in the first half, and then he settles down hits 2158 01:42:44.079 --> 01:42:45.920 a bunch of three from the second half, like you know, 2159 01:42:46.239 --> 01:42:49.359 Nee Smith looks scared in the first half, Miles Turner 2160 01:42:49.399 --> 01:42:51.399 looks scared in the first like they look like, oh 2161 01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:53.359 you know, it hit them, like, oh man, we're in 2162 01:42:53.399 --> 01:42:56.079 the finals. And then they settled down. I think that's coaching. 2163 01:42:56.119 --> 01:42:58.159 I think that's leadership, and I think that's the team 2164 01:42:58.239 --> 01:43:00.840 that is confident that, hey, we can keep coming back. 2165 01:43:00.880 --> 01:43:00.960 Now. 2166 01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:02.880 I don't think it's good to get down double digits 2167 01:43:02.880 --> 01:43:05.800 every time. I know they're five and three this year 2168 01:43:06.119 --> 01:43:08.439 or this postseason, when they get down fifteen points or 2169 01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:11.600 more in a game, which is a ridiculous stat and 2170 01:43:11.680 --> 01:43:13.760 so you don't want to keep doing that, especially not 2171 01:43:13.840 --> 01:43:16.479 against a team like the Thunder, but the fact that 2172 01:43:16.640 --> 01:43:21.439 they are so comfortable down and I gotta think like 2173 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:23.560 even a team like the Thunder, they could be up 2174 01:43:23.600 --> 01:43:28.119 double digits in the fourth quarter in Game two at home, 2175 01:43:28.600 --> 01:43:30.600 and if that thing gets to single digits, I don't 2176 01:43:30.600 --> 01:43:33.279 care how good and confident that team is. That thing 2177 01:43:33.319 --> 01:43:35.319 starts getting the single digits and they miss a shot 2178 01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:37.760 here and there, you know that they're thinking, oh no, 2179 01:43:38.039 --> 01:43:40.640 here it goes again. Because we just saw that with Cleveland, 2180 01:43:40.680 --> 01:43:42.319 we saw it with New York. We're you know we 2181 01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:44.319 saw it with Okay, see last night, you have to 2182 01:43:44.399 --> 01:43:45.079 start thinking that. 2183 01:43:46.119 --> 01:43:50.760 So the final possession, I thought this was interesting, And honestly, 2184 01:43:51.199 --> 01:43:55.520 I mean Rick Carlisle's put on a masterclass all all postseason. 2185 01:43:56.239 --> 01:43:58.600 So they get the rebound you reference. So when Shae 2186 01:43:58.640 --> 01:44:00.239 went up for that shot, first of all, that's the 2187 01:44:00.279 --> 01:44:02.680 shot he wants, right, he gets the shot he wants, 2188 01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:05.600 gets a little space, and like you, he elevates him 2189 01:44:05.640 --> 01:44:08.159 like that's cash miss, is it? They get the board 2190 01:44:08.279 --> 01:44:12.119 ten seconds left, so they get it to Halliburton, and look, 2191 01:44:12.199 --> 01:44:14.319 Cason Wallace is a dog and he's a good on 2192 01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:19.760 ball defender, but you want dort On Halliburton in that moment, 2193 01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:22.880 you just do. And so I wonder because my thought 2194 01:44:23.119 --> 01:44:25.960 in the moment was Rick saw that Cason picks up 2195 01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:29.760 Halliburton and likes that matchup because Cason sixty three and 2196 01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:32.760 Halliburton sixty five. And it's not dort it's not Jalen, 2197 01:44:32.840 --> 01:44:34.960 it is Case and so let's let him do his thing. 2198 01:44:35.119 --> 01:44:36.960 Is that how you read that final possession as well? 2199 01:44:37.880 --> 01:44:40.039 I think it was simply we can't let this team 2200 01:44:40.079 --> 01:44:42.239 get his defense. Yeah, you know, I think it could 2201 01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:45.039 have been anybody on Halliburton, but you're getting single coverage there. 2202 01:44:45.319 --> 01:44:47.039 They had a time out to burn if things got 2203 01:44:47.079 --> 01:44:49.319 in trouble, And I think I think Rick Carlisle is 2204 01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:52.039 just one of those guys he trusted, He especially trusts 2205 01:44:52.039 --> 01:44:55.079 Halliburton to to do what he needs to do and 2206 01:44:55.159 --> 01:44:57.399 get a good shot. And look, you're right, like Kase 2207 01:44:57.479 --> 01:44:59.119 Wallas is. I mean, I think if he got more 2208 01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:02.479 menaces here, he's probab or all defense, right, he's probably 2209 01:45:02.479 --> 01:45:05.000 all defense second team, like he is that good defensively. 2210 01:45:05.520 --> 01:45:09.119 The problem is Halliburton going to his right, like that's 2211 01:45:09.159 --> 01:45:10.840 where his sweet spot is, right, He's not one of 2212 01:45:10.840 --> 01:45:13.199 those guys that takes that jumper going to his left. 2213 01:45:13.199 --> 01:45:16.560 I think Kaylan Cooper does an amazing job covering the Pacers. 2214 01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:18.680 I think she wrote it something like like a five 2215 01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:20.640 to one ratio in terms of him going to his 2216 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:23.920 right and taking jump shots, some ridiculous stat like that. 2217 01:45:24.359 --> 01:45:26.880 And so that's where he wants to go. He didn't 2218 01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:28.600 really have to do a step back or anything like 2219 01:45:28.640 --> 01:45:30.199 he just kind of he just kind of dribbles into 2220 01:45:30.239 --> 01:45:33.039 that thing. The question I have for Mark Dagno, like 2221 01:45:33.439 --> 01:45:36.159 where is the double? Where is the swarm? Like you 2222 01:45:36.279 --> 01:45:38.520 can't help from the from the corner there as he's 2223 01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:42.119 going towards the right, I would send anybody else at him. 2224 01:45:42.560 --> 01:45:44.960 You can't, like anyone else on that team, you get 2225 01:45:45.039 --> 01:45:47.319 to have the game winning shot. I am not giving 2226 01:45:47.359 --> 01:45:51.600 that to Halliburton. Anyone Nee Smith, Turner, Siakam, anyone else 2227 01:45:51.640 --> 01:45:54.199 gets to have that shot. Halliburton doesn't get to get 2228 01:45:54.199 --> 01:45:56.039 a shot off there. And I think I think we 2229 01:45:56.199 --> 01:45:59.199 saw both with the change in the starting lineup for 2230 01:45:59.439 --> 01:46:01.399 literally no reason. I mean, I thought that was a 2231 01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:04.239 huge mistake to start off by Mark Daignold, and then 2232 01:46:04.760 --> 01:46:06.920 some of that coaching down the stretch, especially that final 2233 01:46:06.960 --> 01:46:10.000 defensive possession. I think you just saw a little bit 2234 01:46:10.039 --> 01:46:11.199 of that inexperience there. 2235 01:46:11.520 --> 01:46:13.880 I'm glad you brought up the lineup change. That's where 2236 01:46:13.880 --> 01:46:15.479 I want to go next. So it was not a 2237 01:46:15.560 --> 01:46:19.520 good check game, and Dagnold decided to stagger Chet and Hartenstein. 2238 01:46:19.640 --> 01:46:25.159 Hartenstein excuse me, And I thought Hartenstein Hartenstein was actually 2239 01:46:25.279 --> 01:46:27.640 better in his seventeen minutes than Chet was in his 2240 01:46:27.720 --> 01:46:31.119 twenty four. I don't know if it's Chet's inability to 2241 01:46:31.199 --> 01:46:33.520 handle physicality, that's always been his thing. I don't know 2242 01:46:33.600 --> 01:46:35.439 if it's too big for the moment, at least for 2243 01:46:35.520 --> 01:46:40.079 Game one case and starts Isaiah comes off the bench. 2244 01:46:40.159 --> 01:46:41.920 Do you think we'll see that in Game two? Or 2245 01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:43.680 does he go back to the two bigs together. 2246 01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:46.279 I don't know why you went away from him the 2247 01:46:46.319 --> 01:46:50.760 first place. I mean, Hartenstein can't handle Myles Turner. No 2248 01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:53.079 offense to Miles Turner, But like, what's the issue there? 2249 01:46:54.399 --> 01:46:55.079 I don't get it. 2250 01:46:55.119 --> 01:46:57.840 And you've got out rebound by seventeen I think that's 2251 01:46:57.880 --> 01:47:01.840 what it was. Seventeen hartstn wrap nine rebounds in seventeen minutes, 2252 01:47:01.880 --> 01:47:05.079 like they completely abandon what was good for them. I 2253 01:47:05.239 --> 01:47:07.479 get it. You're like, oh, that team's fast. We you know, 2254 01:47:07.520 --> 01:47:08.920 we want to make sure we have some speed and 2255 01:47:08.960 --> 01:47:11.479 some more defense on the floor. You're the best defense 2256 01:47:11.479 --> 01:47:13.920 in the league when Hartstein's out there too. I just 2257 01:47:14.039 --> 01:47:17.199 I don't get it, Like you shouldn't. You're the favorite, 2258 01:47:17.279 --> 01:47:21.520 You're the most dominant team regular season NBA history, sixty 2259 01:47:21.560 --> 01:47:24.239 eight wins. No one can touch you in any of 2260 01:47:24.319 --> 01:47:27.279 these things. You've got, you know, four different thirty point 2261 01:47:27.359 --> 01:47:30.720 wins in these in this postseason. Why are you adjusting 2262 01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:33.640 to the Indiana Pacers before the series even starts? I 2263 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:36.319 just I didn't understand that at all. I think you 2264 01:47:36.439 --> 01:47:39.640 go out there and by putting Chet at the four 2265 01:47:40.199 --> 01:47:43.720 and using your regular starting lineup, Yeah, Chet's probably gonna 2266 01:47:43.720 --> 01:47:46.680 struggle a little bit, Garden Siakam, but you've got help, 2267 01:47:46.760 --> 01:47:48.760 and you've got big help, and they've got a great, 2268 01:47:49.119 --> 01:47:51.479 you know, big to big thing going on offense too, 2269 01:47:51.560 --> 01:47:53.640 where you know that's that's gonna be really tough for 2270 01:47:53.720 --> 01:47:55.720 Indiana to guard. I just I thought that was a 2271 01:47:56.039 --> 01:47:59.159 massive mistake on so many levels on both ends of 2272 01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:02.119 the floor. And then even in their in their rotations, 2273 01:48:02.319 --> 01:48:05.720 I couldn't believe how how staggered those rotations were with 2274 01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:09.439 those two because I think, you know, against Indiana, you 2275 01:48:09.560 --> 01:48:10.720 kind of got to be bullies there. I mean we 2276 01:48:11.439 --> 01:48:14.079 saw with New York when it was when it was 2277 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:16.800 cad Mitchell Rompson, like, yes, they lost that series, but 2278 01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:18.520 when those two were on the floor together, it kind 2279 01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:21.800 of works at times. And with Chet and Hartnsteint, I 2280 01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:23.399 think you have to believe that that's going to work 2281 01:48:23.439 --> 01:48:24.199 against Indiana. 2282 01:48:25.000 --> 01:48:28.000 So we've already talked about why if you're Indiana, you 2283 01:48:28.159 --> 01:48:30.680 of course feel good, A you have the lead. B. 2284 01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:32.880 You don't believe you're gonna turn it over twenty four 2285 01:48:32.960 --> 01:48:35.039 times in a game, or certainly nineteen times and a 2286 01:48:35.079 --> 01:48:38.159 half or whatever. But Indiana shot eighteen of thirty nine 2287 01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:41.319 from three forty six percent. Okay, see eleven of thirty 2288 01:48:41.399 --> 01:48:44.359 from three. That's not who they are anyway. Of the 2289 01:48:44.399 --> 01:48:47.079 sixteen teams in the playoffs, Indiana or excuse me, okay, 2290 01:48:47.119 --> 01:48:50.560 see is thirteenth and three point percentage. But if so, 2291 01:48:50.680 --> 01:48:53.119 we've talked about why Indiana feels good today, because of 2292 01:48:53.159 --> 01:48:56.119 course they should tell me, if anything, why you think 2293 01:48:56.159 --> 01:48:59.520 Oklahoma City should still feel good about their chance to 2294 01:48:59.680 --> 01:49:02.039 answer to win the series based off of what happened 2295 01:49:02.119 --> 01:49:02.520 last night. 2296 01:49:03.520 --> 01:49:06.479 I mean you you they took Mike Worganoff had had 2297 01:49:06.479 --> 01:49:10.000 a stat something like they took fifteen more shots within 2298 01:49:10.119 --> 01:49:12.399 four feet of the rim, you know, like it like, so, 2299 01:49:12.479 --> 01:49:15.960 you've got a lot of shots inside. You shot more 2300 01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:18.680 free throws, you committed fewer fouls. You know, you did 2301 01:49:18.800 --> 01:49:20.680 force a ton of turnovers, and a lot of those 2302 01:49:20.720 --> 01:49:23.079 were live ball turnovers. I think you have to think 2303 01:49:23.159 --> 01:49:27.279 that you're gonna even if you force ten fewer turnovers 2304 01:49:27.359 --> 01:49:29.239 next game. I think you have to believe you're going 2305 01:49:29.359 --> 01:49:33.600 to create more points off those turnovers, because I think 2306 01:49:33.640 --> 01:49:36.119 the stat I saw going into last night's game is 2307 01:49:36.800 --> 01:49:40.079 they were scoring like one point three six points per 2308 01:49:40.199 --> 01:49:44.399 possession on steals during the postseason, which is a ridiculous number. 2309 01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:46.840 I mean, it's like it's like scoring one hundred and 2310 01:49:46.880 --> 01:49:49.640 thirty six points per one hundred possessions, which would which 2311 01:49:49.640 --> 01:49:53.239 would be an insane level of offensive efficiency. So like 2312 01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:56.159 you have to think that as as you're creating live 2313 01:49:56.239 --> 01:49:59.520 ball turnovers, you are going to convert those. Shay had 2314 01:49:59.560 --> 01:50:03.319 a good game, Chet was miserable. Jaalen Williams shot the 2315 01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:07.039 ball really poorly. No one else really stepped up outside 2316 01:50:07.039 --> 01:50:10.560 of lou Dort, you know, hitting those threes. So I 2317 01:50:10.600 --> 01:50:12.840 think you have to think, I believe, like you didn't 2318 01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:14.359 play that good of a game and you still should 2319 01:50:14.399 --> 01:50:17.600 have won, and you missed on essentially a last second shot. 2320 01:50:17.760 --> 01:50:21.079 You missed that opportunity. So they can play a lot better, 2321 01:50:21.239 --> 01:50:23.359 and they and they typically do play a lot better, 2322 01:50:23.399 --> 01:50:25.680 and we've seen how they bounce back. I mean they 2323 01:50:25.720 --> 01:50:29.840 lost Game one to Denver at home and then came 2324 01:50:29.920 --> 01:50:32.199 back and won by like forty three points, so we 2325 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:35.399 know that they'll respond. You just have to I just 2326 01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:38.159 do not think that they can keep up with this 2327 01:50:38.359 --> 01:50:40.039 altered lineup. I think they have to go back to 2328 01:50:40.119 --> 01:50:40.760 what works for them. 2329 01:50:41.199 --> 01:50:43.600 As your opinion, I know you said you chose Indiana 2330 01:50:43.800 --> 01:50:46.920 to win Game one in Oklahoma City to win the series. 2331 01:50:47.880 --> 01:50:50.880 I don't think it's gonna be five games, but I 2332 01:50:51.039 --> 01:50:54.359 still kind of lean towards OKC. As your opinion on 2333 01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:56.680 how this thing's gonna play out changed after Game one. 2334 01:50:57.960 --> 01:51:01.119 I'm still sticking with thunder in six, but I feel, 2335 01:51:02.079 --> 01:51:04.840 you know, less confident in it for sure. Like I 2336 01:51:04.920 --> 01:51:08.680 mean Indiana, it's not so much of what Indiana showed 2337 01:51:09.279 --> 01:51:11.960 because I think they did what they do right. They 2338 01:51:12.039 --> 01:51:14.680 shot well, and they've shot well all postseason. You know, 2339 01:51:14.720 --> 01:51:18.239 they're almost like fifty forty eighty as a team for 2340 01:51:18.399 --> 01:51:22.239 the for the postseason during this run, so you know, 2341 01:51:22.319 --> 01:51:24.680 they did what they're supposed to on offense outside of 2342 01:51:24.720 --> 01:51:29.159 the turnovers, which they rarely rarely do. I'm I'm more 2343 01:51:29.279 --> 01:51:31.760 uneasy with the changes that Okay See made and not 2344 01:51:31.880 --> 01:51:33.960 to keep like you know, hammering that point home. But 2345 01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:36.880 I need to see how they adjust in Game two 2346 01:51:36.960 --> 01:51:38.920 and if they go back to their regular style, because 2347 01:51:39.600 --> 01:51:42.520 I just I really don't like when the team changes 2348 01:51:42.600 --> 01:51:44.880 up that kind of strategy. It reminds me a little bit. 2349 01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:46.840 This is gonna be, you know, kind of extreme. But 2350 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:50.279 remember when when the Mavericks, you know, back in two 2351 01:51:50.279 --> 01:51:52.720 thousand and seven, just all of a sudden started changing 2352 01:51:52.760 --> 01:51:54.960 everything they did against that Warriors team that we believe 2353 01:51:55.000 --> 01:51:57.600 Warriors team. You know, they got what they got away 2354 01:51:57.600 --> 01:52:01.079 from their identity pretty quickly in that series. And Don 2355 01:52:01.159 --> 01:52:02.920 Nelson knew at that point. He's like, oh, we you know, 2356 01:52:03.000 --> 01:52:07.199 we got this. And so I think that I think 2357 01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:09.479 that that that's a little bit of a reminder here 2358 01:52:09.720 --> 01:52:12.840 of if the Thunder keep adjusting to what Indiana is 2359 01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:16.239 doing rather than adjusting what they do, which I think 2360 01:52:16.279 --> 01:52:18.800 there's a big difference. I do think the Thunder might 2361 01:52:18.800 --> 01:52:19.319 be in trouble. 2362 01:52:19.800 --> 01:52:22.680 All right, let's switch Gears game two Sunday night, six 2363 01:52:22.720 --> 01:52:24.640 o'clock Mountain time. You can hear it right here on 2364 01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:27.239 a ESPN seven hundred. Since you since you and I 2365 01:52:27.399 --> 01:52:31.359 last spoke, Tom Thibodeau has lost his job and now 2366 01:52:31.439 --> 01:52:33.800 the New York Knicks are looking for a new coach. 2367 01:52:34.359 --> 01:52:37.359 Let me ask you this, you're well plugged in. Why 2368 01:52:37.439 --> 01:52:39.159 do you think this decision was made? Who do you 2369 01:52:39.159 --> 01:52:39.840 think was behind it. 2370 01:52:41.760 --> 01:52:45.840 I do think it was enough of the front office, 2371 01:52:46.279 --> 01:52:47.840 you know. You know, at first I thought it was 2372 01:52:47.920 --> 01:52:49.399 dul and then as I've talked to some people, I 2373 01:52:49.479 --> 01:52:52.640 do think some of the front office was leaning this way. 2374 01:52:53.159 --> 01:52:53.319 You know. 2375 01:52:53.399 --> 01:52:56.279 I kind of heard throughout the year, especially leading up 2376 01:52:56.279 --> 01:52:58.760 to the playoffs, of hey, if he didn't get to 2377 01:52:58.800 --> 01:53:01.399 the conference finals, like he's out right, like he's just 2378 01:53:01.479 --> 01:53:03.319 out if they don't get to a conference finals. And 2379 01:53:03.439 --> 01:53:05.399 then once the lay of the land changed with like 2380 01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.239 oh Cleveland, Cleveland got knocked out, and then you obviously 2381 01:53:08.319 --> 01:53:12.000 they beat Boston, I think it became a thing of like, 2382 01:53:12.319 --> 01:53:14.920 I can't believe we lost to the Pacers, and it's 2383 01:53:15.000 --> 01:53:18.359 underestimating that Pacers team. And I think that's I think 2384 01:53:18.399 --> 01:53:23.439 it kind of set back that that kind of feeling 2385 01:53:23.479 --> 01:53:24.960 of hey, we got to get to the conference finals 2386 01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:26.920 or or better in order for him to keep his job. 2387 01:53:27.079 --> 01:53:29.840 I don't really know what this thing is. I don't 2388 01:53:29.880 --> 01:53:32.479 think that he had. I know, everyone's like, you gotta 2389 01:53:32.479 --> 01:53:34.199 play your bench. You got to play your bench. What bench? 2390 01:53:34.960 --> 01:53:36.600 The one with Cameron Paynt and Landry Shammon on it, 2391 01:53:36.680 --> 01:53:39.640 Like I know Landry Shammon had an okay series against Indiana. 2392 01:53:39.760 --> 01:53:43.560 He's not good, right like they like you're you were 2393 01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.680 relying on Delon Wright to kind of turn back the 2394 01:53:45.760 --> 01:53:47.920 clock a little bit, and he did, and he played well, 2395 01:53:48.720 --> 01:53:51.359 but he doesn't have much of a bench to utilize there. 2396 01:53:51.760 --> 01:53:53.359 And it's not to make excuses. I still think he 2397 01:53:53.479 --> 01:53:55.399 needs to coach better, and I think he needs to, 2398 01:53:56.079 --> 01:53:58.239 you know, rely on the depths, you know, of what 2399 01:53:58.399 --> 01:54:01.199 he's given a lot more because we're just talking about 2400 01:54:01.199 --> 01:54:04.039 a couple of minutes here and there. But this seemed 2401 01:54:04.039 --> 01:54:07.960 to be decided no matter what, short of a finals run. 2402 01:54:08.119 --> 01:54:08.359 And so. 2403 01:54:10.119 --> 01:54:14.399 I think it's fine to do if you have that 2404 01:54:14.640 --> 01:54:16.840 person that you know you're going to replace them with. 2405 01:54:17.680 --> 01:54:19.520 It doesn't seem like they have that. And if the 2406 01:54:19.560 --> 01:54:23.039 answer is Mike Malone, no offense of Mike Malone, I'm 2407 01:54:23.079 --> 01:54:26.960 not certain he's a better coach than Tom Sibodeau. Like, Okay, 2408 01:54:27.039 --> 01:54:29.760 he's got a ring, show me where he's gonna run 2409 01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:33.319 the throat to Yokic offense with the Knicks, Like, I 2410 01:54:33.399 --> 01:54:35.800 don't know what kind of coach he is without Jokis. 2411 01:54:36.159 --> 01:54:37.800 And I'm not trying to diminish what he can do. 2412 01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:40.439 He's obviously a very smart coach, but we don't know 2413 01:54:40.479 --> 01:54:41.159 what that looks like. 2414 01:54:42.479 --> 01:54:46.640 Yeah, And look, ultimately, if the whole thing with Tom 2415 01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:49.720 is that he's not a great relationship guy, I've got 2416 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:52.319 bad news about Michael Malone as well, right, you. 2417 01:54:52.359 --> 01:54:55.600 Know, but he just got fired for the exact same stuff. 2418 01:54:55.560 --> 01:54:58.119 Right, right, And I just have to wonder. And look, 2419 01:54:58.239 --> 01:54:59.880 I'm gonna sound like the old guy yelling at a 2420 01:55:00.399 --> 01:55:03.560 but you know a lot of the coaches with kind 2421 01:55:03.560 --> 01:55:07.680 of an old school approach have lost their jobs, even 2422 01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:10.560 if they are good at their jobs. And I don't 2423 01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:13.920 want to say, like, hey, the new cuddled NBA player athlete, 2424 01:55:14.199 --> 01:55:17.119 but is that is that approach antiquated? Is it no 2425 01:55:17.239 --> 01:55:19.680 longer possible in a league that is clearly run by 2426 01:55:19.720 --> 01:55:20.199 the players? 2427 01:55:21.119 --> 01:55:24.079 Yeah? I mean probably. And and you know, I like, 2428 01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:26.920 you want to win, right? Do you want to win? 2429 01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:29.199 Or you want to just be coddled and make funey? Like? 2430 01:55:30.199 --> 01:55:33.199 Does does Indiana seem like they're they're upset when Rick 2431 01:55:33.239 --> 01:55:35.680 Carlisle is yelling at him. He's not a guy that 2432 01:55:36.520 --> 01:55:40.720 that coddles. Rick Carlo's hard on his players. He's about accountability. 2433 01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:42.800 And so I just I don't think there's a problem 2434 01:55:42.840 --> 01:55:45.560 with it. I just I don't and and if that's 2435 01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:49.920 if that's the issue within your organization, then I don't 2436 01:55:49.960 --> 01:55:51.039 think you have the right players. 2437 01:55:51.800 --> 01:55:53.600 And I don't think they have the right players. You're 2438 01:55:53.640 --> 01:55:55.520 point about the bench is something I've been harping on. 2439 01:55:55.640 --> 01:55:58.319 We had Howard beck on last last Hour and he 2440 01:55:58.399 --> 01:56:00.560 said he's been told that the front office was mad 2441 01:56:01.039 --> 01:56:02.800 that Tom didn't go deep in his bench. I'm like, 2442 01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:05.479 to who, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, no, 2443 01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:07.640 I'm with you there. I think their issue was a 2444 01:56:07.720 --> 01:56:12.199 roster yeah, exactly, Like you know, their issue was a 2445 01:56:12.319 --> 01:56:14.960 roster construction issue with their top heavy with a good 2446 01:56:15.039 --> 01:56:17.800 starting five. But if they're gonna do anything else, I 2447 01:56:17.880 --> 01:56:19.800 think they've got a cat problem. Do you think they 2448 01:56:19.840 --> 01:56:22.920 get involved in the Durant stuff, the honest stuff? Do 2449 01:56:22.960 --> 01:56:25.279 you think they try to tinker make it deeper or 2450 01:56:25.479 --> 01:56:26.720 change things up top as well? 2451 01:56:27.800 --> 01:56:29.760 I mean, they don't have anything to go get Yannest right, 2452 01:56:29.960 --> 01:56:32.479 They barely have anything to go get Durant Like that 2453 01:56:32.560 --> 01:56:36.359 would be a pretty big concession by even the Sun's organization. 2454 01:56:36.560 --> 01:56:40.119 Like I can't imagine that that's that's doing a whole 2455 01:56:40.199 --> 01:56:43.479 lot for them. So, like you depleted your draft pick 2456 01:56:44.239 --> 01:56:47.319 stockpile by by going and getting bridges. So I don't 2457 01:56:47.319 --> 01:56:49.199 I don't know what you can flip. Let's say, let's 2458 01:56:49.239 --> 01:56:53.520 say Phoenix said, hey, you know what, we'll do CAT 2459 01:56:53.600 --> 01:56:57.079 for KD. Straight up? What does that do? No offense 2460 01:56:57.119 --> 01:57:00.319 to KD. He's great, He's better than CAT. I don't 2461 01:57:00.359 --> 01:57:03.680 understand how that fixes their issues. This is a team 2462 01:57:03.720 --> 01:57:06.520 that can't can't defend the paint. This is a team 2463 01:57:06.560 --> 01:57:07.680 that can't defend on the perimeter. 2464 01:57:08.600 --> 01:57:09.479 I like that. 2465 01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:13.720 That's not gonna fix it at all. Kad is a 2466 01:57:13.800 --> 01:57:15.960 great weapon and he can do a whole lot, but 2467 01:57:16.159 --> 01:57:19.319 that's not going to solve their cat problem at all. 2468 01:57:19.439 --> 01:57:22.600 That is just going to create different problems as it solves, 2469 01:57:22.640 --> 01:57:25.199 like a little bit of some offensive stuff. But even then, 2470 01:57:25.319 --> 01:57:27.840 like okay, Katie's gonna sit and watch while Jaylen Bronson 2471 01:57:27.880 --> 01:57:31.039 does the clutch stuff, which is fine, Jylen Brunst is 2472 01:57:31.079 --> 01:57:34.000 really good at it. But I'm failing to see how 2473 01:57:34.079 --> 01:57:36.640 that is a that is something that solves anything. If 2474 01:57:36.680 --> 01:57:40.399 they could go get Yannest, sure that's an improvement that 2475 01:57:41.159 --> 01:57:43.359 starts to fill in some of those gaps, but they 2476 01:57:43.439 --> 01:57:44.279 can't go get him. 2477 01:57:45.520 --> 01:57:47.399 All right, before I set you loose. There was a 2478 01:57:47.439 --> 01:57:49.800 piece of news out this way as Austin Inge has 2479 01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:52.359 been hired as the president of basketball operations for the 2480 01:57:52.479 --> 01:57:55.800 Utah Jazz. Ryan Smith himself at the press conference said, 2481 01:57:55.840 --> 01:57:58.800 this is now Austin's show. He is the loudest voice 2482 01:57:58.840 --> 01:58:02.680 in the front office. Austin's dad, Danny, will report to him, 2483 01:58:03.239 --> 01:58:06.000 and Justin'sannik will also report to him. Of course, the 2484 01:58:06.079 --> 01:58:08.920 sound by Zach that has been making the rounds is 2485 01:58:08.960 --> 01:58:12.239 Austin saying. His philosophy on tanking is that we will 2486 01:58:12.279 --> 01:58:14.159 not do that here. You will not see it this year. 2487 01:58:14.920 --> 01:58:16.680 All find him good. But when you have a top 2488 01:58:16.720 --> 01:58:19.800 eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City, if you 2489 01:58:19.920 --> 01:58:24.439 are below eight, then you've got some interesting roster decisions 2490 01:58:24.520 --> 01:58:27.319 to make. What do you think? So, if we take 2491 01:58:27.359 --> 01:58:30.520 Austin at his word, they're no longer tanking or manipulating minutes, 2492 01:58:31.520 --> 01:58:33.279 I think it's paramount for them to hold on to 2493 01:58:33.319 --> 01:58:36.119 that draft asset next year in that draft class. But 2494 01:58:36.359 --> 01:58:38.079 if he is now the guy calling the shots and 2495 01:58:38.119 --> 01:58:39.880 that is his ethos, what do you think this looks 2496 01:58:39.920 --> 01:58:40.920 like for the Jazz this year. 2497 01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:44.039 Well, here's the thing about that is I covered some 2498 01:58:44.119 --> 01:58:47.119 Timberwolves and some Kings teams for a while that also 2499 01:58:47.159 --> 01:58:49.600 weren't tanking, but they were so bad it didn't matter. 2500 01:58:50.760 --> 01:58:53.199 So this, I mean, this roster is like all right, 2501 01:58:53.239 --> 01:58:56.479 play lowry, play the veterans and stuff. That thing's not winning, 2502 01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:01.000 that theem's not good. They might win thirty games that 2503 01:59:01.079 --> 01:59:03.720 can still keep them their top their top eight protected pick, 2504 01:59:04.520 --> 01:59:06.960 but they technically wouldn't be tanking. I mean, this is 2505 01:59:06.960 --> 01:59:09.560 a team that needs to continue to bottom out to 2506 01:59:09.560 --> 01:59:11.560 go find one of those guys. I just I don't 2507 01:59:11.720 --> 01:59:13.960 I don't think, I mean, I don't know, Like the 2508 01:59:14.039 --> 01:59:18.000 approach just doesn't make sense to me when there are 2509 01:59:18.079 --> 01:59:20.279 those potential stars, and I think this is just a 2510 01:59:21.000 --> 01:59:23.560 product of we thought we were going to put ourselves 2511 01:59:23.600 --> 01:59:25.720 in the position to get one of these guys. We 2512 01:59:25.840 --> 01:59:29.000 ended up with the fifth pick or what yeah, fifth 2513 01:59:29.039 --> 01:59:32.279 pick or whatever they end up with, and and now like, 2514 01:59:32.680 --> 01:59:34.920 oh man, we can't do that again and sell it 2515 01:59:35.000 --> 01:59:38.439 for with good pr Sometimes you got to just be uncomfortable, 2516 01:59:38.840 --> 01:59:41.640 right Like, they just need to be uncomfortable for another 2517 01:59:41.720 --> 01:59:43.079 year and see if it works again, and then if 2518 01:59:43.079 --> 01:59:45.199 it doesn't, okay, then you adjust and you start making 2519 01:59:45.239 --> 01:59:46.600 some deals with some of the draft picks and some 2520 01:59:46.680 --> 01:59:48.680 of the players that you have and you and you 2521 01:59:48.800 --> 01:59:52.199 lean on development. But you know, the whole press conference 2522 01:59:52.239 --> 01:59:54.800 thing is meaningless. You can say all that stuff, and 2523 01:59:55.159 --> 01:59:57.720 you can you can do all this stuff, but the 2524 01:59:57.880 --> 02:00:00.399 roster's the roster. It doesn't matter if you want to 2525 02:00:00.439 --> 02:00:03.079 take or not. If this is basically what it's going 2526 02:00:03.159 --> 02:00:06.439 to be going into next season, you know, save any 2527 02:00:06.560 --> 02:00:09.399 any kind of you know, massive changes to that roster 2528 02:00:09.680 --> 02:00:11.960 like yeah, okay, you're not taking You're not good. 2529 02:00:12.800 --> 02:00:14.640 Yep, well said, as long as they hold on to 2530 02:00:14.680 --> 02:00:17.239 that asset, that's to me, that's number one, prior to 2531 02:00:17.359 --> 02:00:20.119 all year long. Man, All right, Zach, appreciate the time, buddy. 2532 02:00:20.119 --> 02:00:21.760 I have a good weekend, enjoyed the finals. Well chat 2533 02:00:21.840 --> 02:00:25.159 soon you, sir. Zach Harper covers the NBA for the 2534 02:00:25.239 --> 02:00:28.279 Athletic He's doing a live stream for MBA for pre 2535 02:00:28.399 --> 02:00:31.520 affing posts during the NBA Finals. Get the link to 2536 02:00:31.520 --> 02:00:33.279 all of his work on his Twitter page, which is 2537 02:00:33.319 --> 02:00:35.640 at tak hoops. You gonna bring in an old buddy, 2538 02:00:35.760 --> 02:00:38.119 Gordon Monson coming up on the other side of a break, 2539 02:00:38.199 --> 02:00:40.079 but before we catch a break and other old friends. 2540 02:00:40.479 --> 02:00:42.279 Once upon a time, I was out at his place 2541 02:00:42.319 --> 02:00:44.279 with Gordon quite a bit. It's Rydan from the Dish Bros. 2542 02:00:44.319 --> 02:00:46.439 You give him a call at eight oh one four 2543 02:00:46.520 --> 02:00:48.520 two four Dish. You save a bunch of money on 2544 02:00:48.640 --> 02:00:50.319 a bunch of different things. What's going on, Ryan? 2545 02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:54.119 I remember those days. It's you two in the office, 2546 02:00:54.199 --> 02:00:57.159 and yeah, I love listen listening to you guys, and uh, 2547 02:00:57.399 --> 02:01:03.079 definitely definitely a good chemist for sure. Well, listen, you 2548 02:01:03.119 --> 02:01:07.680 know this is an awesome opportunity if you're paying, you know, 2549 02:01:08.039 --> 02:01:10.960 two hundred bucks a month or more for your TV 2550 02:01:11.720 --> 02:01:14.520 and internet, guys, listen, call up and take advantage of 2551 02:01:14.520 --> 02:01:18.960 the deals that we have. You've got a promotion second. 2552 02:01:18.720 --> 02:01:23.079 To none where you get a two year pro functional price. 2553 02:01:23.159 --> 02:01:27.479 The price is guarantee nut to change all throw movie channels. 2554 02:01:28.359 --> 02:01:30.680 And also we got a promotion will give you three 2555 02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:34.159 months of your service for free. Now, this is a big, 2556 02:01:34.279 --> 02:01:38.079 big promotion. And uh, if you've done those other all 2557 02:01:38.159 --> 02:01:40.640 these big bills and this is a few thousand bucks 2558 02:01:40.720 --> 02:01:43.680 in your pocket, your bill is overall going to be cheaper. 2559 02:01:43.920 --> 02:01:46.800 Plus you're gonna have a bigger, faster, GPR and you 2560 02:01:46.880 --> 02:01:51.479 get free service plus dishes right on the edge of technology. 2561 02:01:51.560 --> 02:01:54.760 They've got all of the streaming apps available within the system. 2562 02:01:54.920 --> 02:01:58.439 So you've got one remote switch back from traditional TV 2563 02:01:59.000 --> 02:02:02.760 straight to streaming, easy and simple, and you get the 2564 02:02:02.920 --> 02:02:05.319 best price guarantee. We call us plus we'll throw in 2565 02:02:05.359 --> 02:02:06.640 dinner at jcw's. 2566 02:02:06.960 --> 02:02:08.039 Both have a half a. 2567 02:02:08.159 --> 02:02:10.520 Dozen Internet providers. And I'm not kidding when I say 2568 02:02:10.520 --> 02:02:11.039 half a dozen. 2569 02:02:11.119 --> 02:02:11.680 We actually have. 2570 02:02:11.840 --> 02:02:17.199 About twelve, but not necessarily in this market. So listen, 2571 02:02:17.520 --> 02:02:20.720 if you are overpaying your internet, you don't have a 2572 02:02:20.760 --> 02:02:23.039 good internet solution. It's glitchy's not working. 2573 02:02:23.640 --> 02:02:24.199 Call us up. 2574 02:02:24.600 --> 02:02:26.960 Let's lower the bill, get you a better. 2575 02:02:26.840 --> 02:02:31.239 Service, better TV service, three service for three months. I'll 2576 02:02:31.319 --> 02:02:33.439 throw on dinner at JCWS. It's kind of call four 2577 02:02:33.479 --> 02:02:36.800 to two pour dish eight one four four dish. 2578 02:02:37.279 --> 02:02:39.840 I will give you the five o'clock hour the program tonight. 2579 02:02:40.159 --> 02:02:42.840 We have some hockey on the station. Game two of 2580 02:02:42.840 --> 02:02:45.720 the Stanley Cup Finals comes your way. As we say, 2581 02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:48.840 a night at six o'clock. Busy, busy show today, A 2582 02:02:48.920 --> 02:02:50.640 lot going on. It's been a minute since we caught 2583 02:02:50.720 --> 02:02:52.319 up with our next guest. But when you hear the 2584 02:02:52.359 --> 02:02:56.399 Godfather theme music, it means one thing. The Godfather of 2585 02:02:56.520 --> 02:03:01.000 Utah sports talk radio himself Gordon Monson on a Friday afternoon. Gordo, 2586 02:03:01.039 --> 02:03:01.920 Happy Friday, buddy. 2587 02:03:01.920 --> 02:03:02.359 How are we doing. 2588 02:03:03.399 --> 02:03:05.600 I'm doing just fine. How are you doing, Spence? Some 2589 02:03:05.840 --> 02:03:06.960 things are going well for you. 2590 02:03:07.119 --> 02:03:09.840 Yeah, things are great. Things are great. I promise I 2591 02:03:09.920 --> 02:03:12.720 won't do the entire hit about the following topic, but 2592 02:03:12.760 --> 02:03:15.479 I've got to start out with it. Who chose your 2593 02:03:15.560 --> 02:03:18.319 hat that you wore at your daughter's wedding on the 2594 02:03:18.359 --> 02:03:19.239 north shore of a Wahou. 2595 02:03:25.079 --> 02:03:26.760 It was kind of a toss up. 2596 02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:29.359 It was not you. It wasn't you. 2597 02:03:29.560 --> 02:03:31.479 That's all I know. You did not choose that hat. 2598 02:03:32.359 --> 02:03:33.199 Uh bro. 2599 02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:36.520 She was well my wife, and I was enjoined at first. 2600 02:03:36.560 --> 02:03:38.640 There it is there, it is whatever. 2601 02:03:38.920 --> 02:03:42.119 It was sunny and hot, and I had to, you know, 2602 02:03:42.520 --> 02:03:43.359 cool walls. 2603 02:03:43.119 --> 02:03:45.600 A little, Gordon. I have looked at the picture of 2604 02:03:45.720 --> 02:03:50.800 your family seventy five thousand times, with your beautiful daughters, 2605 02:03:50.920 --> 02:03:54.079 your beautiful wife, and then, my man, is that a fedora? 2606 02:03:54.479 --> 02:03:54.800 Is where you? 2607 02:03:55.039 --> 02:03:56.439 Is that a fedora that you were rocking? 2608 02:03:57.520 --> 02:03:58.399 I don't know what you. 2609 02:03:58.399 --> 02:04:00.680 Would consider at all I know is it cost. 2610 02:04:00.600 --> 02:04:01.520 Me more than. 2611 02:04:04.920 --> 02:04:06.520 What I want to know is what the price stag 2612 02:04:06.640 --> 02:04:08.439 of the whole wedding was but I'm not going to 2613 02:04:08.479 --> 02:04:11.399 ask you that on the radio. Hey look, you rocked it, buddy. 2614 02:04:11.439 --> 02:04:14.600 You look good. I mean, I just the thing about 2615 02:04:14.640 --> 02:04:17.119 the picture is all of your daughters and your wife 2616 02:04:17.159 --> 02:04:19.760 are so fashion conscious and they're so dressed up and 2617 02:04:19.880 --> 02:04:22.439 so nice. It looked to me like you walked out 2618 02:04:22.479 --> 02:04:24.279 with your old suit on, and Lisa was like, we've 2619 02:04:24.319 --> 02:04:26.479 got to do something. So you're wearing this damn hat. 2620 02:04:27.560 --> 02:04:32.720 Well, I had a suit, I had a perfect suit 2621 02:04:32.840 --> 02:04:36.159 for the occasion, and I pull it out and my 2622 02:04:36.279 --> 02:04:40.159 wife and my daughter says, you can't wear that suit. 2623 02:04:40.439 --> 02:04:44.199 That's what the groma is wearing. So I had the 2624 02:04:44.319 --> 02:04:48.079 resort to this thing that was like five sizes too 2625 02:04:48.199 --> 02:04:52.159 big for me. By the way, those pictures. Every time 2626 02:04:52.199 --> 02:04:53.840 I look at pictures at a wedding and one that 2627 02:04:53.920 --> 02:04:56.560 includes one of my daughters, I think, okay, it's time 2628 02:04:56.640 --> 02:05:02.279 to drop a few well bes fun. Anyway, it turned 2629 02:05:02.279 --> 02:05:04.720 out really well, so I was happy about that. 2630 02:05:05.680 --> 02:05:08.279 Okay, lastly, the hat just rules so hard. I'm looking 2631 02:05:08.319 --> 02:05:09.800 at it again. It's such a good look. 2632 02:05:09.880 --> 02:05:10.039 Man. 2633 02:05:10.199 --> 02:05:12.359 I'm just I'm proud of you. I'm happy for you, 2634 02:05:13.319 --> 02:05:15.359 and you've done it right. All the daughters are now 2635 02:05:15.760 --> 02:05:18.600 betrothed or with their partners. That's a nice accomplishment for 2636 02:05:18.680 --> 02:05:19.199 mom and dad. 2637 02:05:20.119 --> 02:05:22.159 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all taken care of from that 2638 02:05:22.239 --> 02:05:25.319 same point. But this is my fourth wedding at which 2639 02:05:25.439 --> 02:05:31.119 I was the officiant, and I'm betting five hundred because 2640 02:05:31.159 --> 02:05:37.239 two of them ended up divorced. If you're patt in 2641 02:05:37.359 --> 02:05:39.760 five hundred, that ain't bad, I guess you know that 2642 02:05:39.800 --> 02:05:40.720 would lead the league. 2643 02:05:40.960 --> 02:05:43.000 That's a hall of fame career, Gordo. You know what, 2644 02:05:43.199 --> 02:05:45.319 since you brought that up, I need to ask your advice. 2645 02:05:45.479 --> 02:05:48.560 My little cousin Madison has asked me to officiate her 2646 02:05:48.600 --> 02:05:52.319 wedding in July. I'm not exactly sure what she was thinking, 2647 02:05:52.720 --> 02:05:54.720 but any advice for your boy as I'm set to 2648 02:05:54.800 --> 02:05:56.840 do what you've done multiple times next month. 2649 02:05:58.279 --> 02:05:59.800 This is what I would do if I were you, 2650 02:06:00.159 --> 02:06:02.840 and it's what I've done at most of the weddings 2651 02:06:02.880 --> 02:06:10.039 that I have, you know, been the officiants. I interview 2652 02:06:10.159 --> 02:06:12.560 them beforehand. I find out what they love about each 2653 02:06:12.600 --> 02:06:18.640 other and then express that to those congregated and that 2654 02:06:18.800 --> 02:06:20.239 usually works out pretty well. 2655 02:06:20.600 --> 02:06:22.600 You know. I like doing it that way. 2656 02:06:23.000 --> 02:06:26.079 Since my daughter got married on the beach this time, 2657 02:06:26.800 --> 02:06:31.439 I had the groom and the bride both get a 2658 02:06:31.640 --> 02:06:35.560 container of sand and pour it into the sea glass 2659 02:06:35.680 --> 02:06:40.119 container where they're mixing their sand into one. And then 2660 02:06:40.199 --> 02:06:43.960 I had everybody who was there take a small We 2661 02:06:44.119 --> 02:06:47.960 handed out small shells, and everybody who was there was 2662 02:06:48.039 --> 02:06:53.000 a small gathering added a little shell to the mix. 2663 02:06:53.560 --> 02:06:55.840 So I thought that was kind of a nice idea. 2664 02:06:56.840 --> 02:07:00.840 I'm very impressed. There's no way that was your idea though, Uh. 2665 02:07:03.079 --> 02:07:03.479 I knew it. 2666 02:07:03.680 --> 02:07:07.119 I knew I looked up the saying thing. But my 2667 02:07:07.399 --> 02:07:10.399 wife's idea was for everybody who was there to put 2668 02:07:10.399 --> 02:07:12.800 a little shill in there, So you know, it was 2669 02:07:12.880 --> 02:07:15.039 It was very It was very cool. But this is 2670 02:07:15.119 --> 02:07:18.199 what I found, the sense. You know, every so many 2671 02:07:18.279 --> 02:07:20.439 people go out there and they spend all this money 2672 02:07:20.560 --> 02:07:26.319 on on an elaborate affair and all this stuff, keeping 2673 02:07:26.399 --> 02:07:29.000 it small and quaint. It's kind of nice. 2674 02:07:29.920 --> 02:07:32.399 The pictures looked wonderful, and of course I tease, I 2675 02:07:32.439 --> 02:07:34.760 love your family. Looks like you guys had a great time, 2676 02:07:34.840 --> 02:07:37.399 and uh that just uh that hat just killed me. Man. 2677 02:07:37.439 --> 02:07:39.680 I loved it. But let's we can move on, Cordo. 2678 02:07:39.840 --> 02:07:43.239 We can we can move on because since you and 2679 02:07:43.279 --> 02:07:45.520 I last spoke there have been a lot of news 2680 02:07:45.920 --> 02:07:48.520 locally that I like to discuss with you. Most recently, 2681 02:07:48.560 --> 02:07:51.720 Austin Ainge has been added to the Jazz front office 2682 02:07:51.760 --> 02:07:54.640 as their president of the basketball operations, and Ryan Smith 2683 02:07:54.720 --> 02:07:57.640 himself said during the press conference that this is now 2684 02:07:57.720 --> 02:08:01.760 the guy Aostin show. He's called shots, meaning Danny his 2685 02:08:01.920 --> 02:08:05.279 dad reports to him. Justin Zannik, the GM reports to 2686 02:08:05.319 --> 02:08:08.199 him as well. So your reaction and what you think 2687 02:08:08.279 --> 02:08:10.119 this means for the Utah Jazz is they're going to 2688 02:08:10.159 --> 02:08:13.359 try to continue this rebuild that's into your four without 2689 02:08:13.399 --> 02:08:14.399 a lot of far retraction. 2690 02:08:15.600 --> 02:08:18.760 Yeah, he says the tanking is over. That doesn't mean 2691 02:08:18.840 --> 02:08:22.079 the losing's over. I mean I think it's going to 2692 02:08:22.159 --> 02:08:24.840 go on for a while yet. But us and Names 2693 02:08:24.880 --> 02:08:26.520 seems like a bright guy. You can look at it 2694 02:08:26.560 --> 02:08:28.920 in one of two ways. I mean, either there's nepotism 2695 02:08:29.039 --> 02:08:32.600 going on here or you know this this is a 2696 02:08:32.680 --> 02:08:35.680 person who can come in here and add energy. He 2697 02:08:35.840 --> 02:08:38.760 was with the Celtics all those years. We remember him 2698 02:08:39.119 --> 02:08:42.199 Spencon just being a player down at BYU. You know 2699 02:08:42.600 --> 02:08:45.039 that's the thing. You see these you see these guys 2700 02:08:45.119 --> 02:08:47.319 grow up, you know, and they turn into adults. And 2701 02:08:48.039 --> 02:08:50.479 I think Austin names is a fairly capable guy, so 2702 02:08:50.600 --> 02:08:51.560 we'll see what he can do. 2703 02:08:52.479 --> 02:08:56.479 So let's dig into what he said about the tanking stuff, 2704 02:08:56.720 --> 02:08:59.520 and you're the way you articulated, I think is the 2705 02:08:59.640 --> 02:09:02.399 right way to articulate it, Like, just because the tanking 2706 02:09:03.239 --> 02:09:06.359 is apparently over, doesn't mean the losing is apparently over. 2707 02:09:06.920 --> 02:09:10.199 So what do you think it's going to look like, Gordon? 2708 02:09:10.279 --> 02:09:13.039 Because here's what I perceive to be the number one 2709 02:09:13.239 --> 02:09:17.079 priority for next season. It's very simple. So if the 2710 02:09:17.199 --> 02:09:20.199 Jazz did not owe a top eight protected pick to 2711 02:09:20.239 --> 02:09:23.359 Oklahoma City next year, I feel differently about the approach. 2712 02:09:24.000 --> 02:09:26.920 But because they do, the worst possible thing that could 2713 02:09:26.960 --> 02:09:29.479 happen this year is the Jazz winning like thirty five 2714 02:09:29.600 --> 02:09:32.279 games and we're all sitting here next spring and Mark 2715 02:09:32.319 --> 02:09:34.880 Tatum pulls out the envelope and says, the number nine 2716 02:09:34.920 --> 02:09:37.359 pick in the draft belongs to the Utah Jazz, meaning 2717 02:09:37.920 --> 02:09:40.640 it belongs to the Oklahoma City Thunder. They have to 2718 02:09:40.800 --> 02:09:44.960 maintain that asset. Gordo, that's my opinion. Give me your 2719 02:09:45.000 --> 02:09:46.720 thoughts on it, And if so, what do you think 2720 02:09:46.760 --> 02:09:47.800 this year is going to look like? 2721 02:09:49.720 --> 02:09:49.760 You? 2722 02:09:49.840 --> 02:09:52.800 I'll expenseally bring up a great point there, but I 2723 02:09:52.920 --> 02:09:57.439 think at some juncture the Jazz has to be able 2724 02:09:57.520 --> 02:10:01.279 to go out and let those players play as hard 2725 02:10:01.319 --> 02:10:05.279 as they possibly can and win as many games as 2726 02:10:05.359 --> 02:10:08.840 they possibly can. Because I don't know, it's interesting A 2727 02:10:08.880 --> 02:10:12.079 lot of people look at Okac and they say, oh, 2728 02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:15.199 that's a blueprint for the Jazz to follow. Well, that'd 2729 02:10:15.239 --> 02:10:17.680 be great. I mean, Austin Inge is smart, dude, I 2730 02:10:17.720 --> 02:10:21.039 don't think he's quite at Sam Presty's level. I mean 2731 02:10:21.159 --> 02:10:23.840 what that guy did to build that team, you know, 2732 02:10:24.039 --> 02:10:27.880 trading two all stars and then freeing up some flexibility. 2733 02:10:28.199 --> 02:10:31.680 That sounds familiar Jazz fans. I mean it is sort 2734 02:10:31.720 --> 02:10:34.359 of what the Jazz are looking at now what they did. 2735 02:10:34.920 --> 02:10:39.960 But what's the difference. Okac got an MVP, he's traded 2736 02:10:40.000 --> 02:10:43.800 for an MVP, and whether the Jazz can find that 2737 02:10:43.960 --> 02:10:47.800 kind of leadership, I really don't know. And you have 2738 02:10:47.920 --> 02:10:49.920 to get lucky, but you has to be. Here's the thing. 2739 02:10:50.760 --> 02:10:54.600 Austin Ainge has to be smarter than just about everybody 2740 02:10:54.640 --> 02:10:57.680 else in the league. Is he Is he at that level? 2741 02:10:57.800 --> 02:10:58.119 Spence? 2742 02:10:58.399 --> 02:11:02.039 I don't know whether he is. Is It may sound unfair, 2743 02:11:02.199 --> 02:11:05.279 but that's sort of what quote unquote small market teams 2744 02:11:05.399 --> 02:11:05.800 have to do. 2745 02:11:06.279 --> 02:11:06.760 They have to. 2746 02:11:07.199 --> 02:11:09.560 They have to get lucky in the draft, but they 2747 02:11:09.720 --> 02:11:13.119 have to recognize talent and get it one way or 2748 02:11:13.159 --> 02:11:15.239 the other. They have to figure out what they have 2749 02:11:15.800 --> 02:11:20.520 and unload what they can unload without hurting the building 2750 02:11:20.680 --> 02:11:25.720 process and get guys who others might not think are 2751 02:11:25.880 --> 02:11:28.359 as good as they might be. And that's what us 2752 02:11:28.520 --> 02:11:30.920 names has to do, regardless. 2753 02:11:30.319 --> 02:11:32.319 Of where the picks are that they get. 2754 02:11:32.520 --> 02:11:35.520 I mean, it just it has to happen that way. 2755 02:11:35.600 --> 02:11:39.319 The thing about OKAYC though, is they haven't forfeited many 2756 02:11:39.399 --> 02:11:42.439 of their draft picks that they could still get better 2757 02:11:43.079 --> 02:11:47.720 based on after the smart decisions they've made to build 2758 02:11:47.800 --> 02:11:50.760 that build that roster into what it is. And of 2759 02:11:50.840 --> 02:11:54.760 course SCA, I mean, those guys don't grow on trees. 2760 02:11:54.840 --> 02:11:56.399 And where the Jazz are going to get a player 2761 02:11:56.600 --> 02:11:57.279 like that, I don't know. 2762 02:11:57.920 --> 02:11:59.800 Yeah, And look a lot of good stuff there. 2763 02:12:00.119 --> 02:12:00.279 You know. 2764 02:12:00.479 --> 02:12:03.920 It's interesting to understand the narrative of the finals in 2765 02:12:03.960 --> 02:12:07.439 front of us, where there are two teams that parlayed 2766 02:12:07.479 --> 02:12:10.399 Paul George into two star players. If you think about it, 2767 02:12:10.479 --> 02:12:13.880 I mean Indiana had Paul George. They traded Paul George 2768 02:12:13.920 --> 02:12:17.560 Dokase for Victo Ladipo and Domo Sabanas Sabonis. Then they 2769 02:12:17.600 --> 02:12:21.439 traded Domo Sabonis to Sacramento for Tyree Saliburton, and then 2770 02:12:21.439 --> 02:12:25.199 Oklahoma City flips Paul George to the Clippers for Shay Gilgesse, 2771 02:12:25.199 --> 02:12:28.960 Alexander couple of other pieces like Danilo Gallinari and five picks. 2772 02:12:29.079 --> 02:12:31.640 One is turned into Jalen Williams. But the fact of 2773 02:12:31.680 --> 02:12:34.720 the matter is, look, I know that when they traded Mitchell. 2774 02:12:34.760 --> 02:12:37.279 When the Jazz traded Mitchell, there was this celebration of 2775 02:12:37.359 --> 02:12:40.279 the hall they got in return. I don't think they 2776 02:12:40.359 --> 02:12:42.960 got enough. I really don't, and I like Lowry. The 2777 02:12:43.079 --> 02:12:46.800 Ringer just released our top one hundred players in the NBA. 2778 02:12:47.359 --> 02:12:50.159 The Jazz have one on the list. It's Lowry who's 2779 02:12:50.279 --> 02:12:53.359 fifty three, and Donovan Mitchell is twenty eight years old 2780 02:12:53.399 --> 02:12:55.800 in his prime. He's the eighth best player in pro 2781 02:12:55.960 --> 02:12:59.199 basketball according to The Ringer. So look, there are still 2782 02:12:59.359 --> 02:13:02.079 draft picks that can be conveyed. They had some other 2783 02:13:02.119 --> 02:13:04.680 pieces in that deal. Colin Saxton has been fine for 2784 02:13:04.800 --> 02:13:07.960 the Jazz. Oh Chiobaji was good in Toronto. Didn't work 2785 02:13:08.000 --> 02:13:12.159 out here, but Sam Presty and the Indiana Front Office 2786 02:13:12.199 --> 02:13:14.840 turned Paul George into cornerstones, and I don't know that 2787 02:13:14.920 --> 02:13:16.960 the Jazz did that with Donovan, who is a top 2788 02:13:17.039 --> 02:13:18.199 ten player in his prime. 2789 02:13:18.239 --> 02:13:21.319 Gordon, Yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent. Bence. 2790 02:13:21.479 --> 02:13:24.279 I know you study this stuff and you're right on 2791 02:13:24.399 --> 02:13:29.319 the money in my opinion. I mean, I mean Sam Presty, 2792 02:13:29.439 --> 02:13:32.000 I have so much respect for that guy. I don't 2793 02:13:32.079 --> 02:13:33.760 know him. Have you talked with him? 2794 02:13:33.840 --> 02:13:35.359 I've met him a couple of times. He was with 2795 02:13:35.439 --> 02:13:38.439 the Spurs for a number of years before the Sonic sired, 2796 02:13:38.479 --> 02:13:41.279 and then obviously okay, see after they left Seattle. 2797 02:13:42.199 --> 02:13:44.800 People talk about luck, you need luck, and yeah, you 2798 02:13:44.920 --> 02:13:47.159 do a little bit here and there, but Sam Presty's 2799 02:13:47.199 --> 02:13:49.880 just been smarter than everybody else. And as far as 2800 02:13:49.920 --> 02:13:51.760 with the Pacers have done, you know, there's been a 2801 02:13:51.800 --> 02:13:55.439 lot of talk about this small market finals and whatnot, 2802 02:13:55.600 --> 02:13:59.199 but these two teams have proved to me that you 2803 02:13:59.479 --> 02:14:02.199 you don't have to be in some huge market in 2804 02:14:02.439 --> 02:14:03.560 order to make it work. 2805 02:14:03.880 --> 02:14:04.359 The Pacers. 2806 02:14:05.039 --> 02:14:09.399 So we talked about what Okac has done, but what 2807 02:14:09.520 --> 02:14:12.600 the Pacers have done, not only have they gotten some talent. 2808 02:14:12.720 --> 02:14:16.399 You talked about Halliburton, Holy casts. He shoots it like 2809 02:14:16.520 --> 02:14:20.760 you did back in the days, in those clutch moments. 2810 02:14:20.840 --> 02:14:24.960 I mean, he's just he's just exactly what a team needs. 2811 02:14:25.479 --> 02:14:29.039 And so that's the second part of the two stage 2812 02:14:29.159 --> 02:14:31.640 rocket here is you got to get the players and 2813 02:14:31.760 --> 02:14:35.199 then you've got to implement something that works for them 2814 02:14:35.600 --> 02:14:38.239 in their best interests. And that's what the Pacers have done. 2815 02:14:38.439 --> 02:14:41.119 I'm sure you've broken down what they do offensively. 2816 02:14:41.600 --> 02:14:42.159 I love it. 2817 02:14:42.520 --> 02:14:44.520 I love people talk about that. I want to see 2818 02:14:44.600 --> 02:14:47.039 New York. I want to see the Lakers in the finals. 2819 02:14:47.119 --> 02:14:47.439 That going on. 2820 02:14:47.840 --> 02:14:51.000 No, I love this matchup. I love what we're seeing 2821 02:14:51.279 --> 02:14:54.640 the way the Pacers. I mean I compare it. I 2822 02:14:54.800 --> 02:14:56.600 was writing to column and compare it to sort of 2823 02:14:56.640 --> 02:15:01.319 a jiffy pop kind of offense. It's inceptual in nature, 2824 02:15:01.399 --> 02:15:04.439 but I get the feeling that the players are free 2825 02:15:04.520 --> 02:15:07.000 to do what they want to do. You know, they 2826 02:15:07.479 --> 02:15:09.680 set all those screens, and they move the ball, and 2827 02:15:09.720 --> 02:15:12.520 they get up the floor and it's just fun to watch. 2828 02:15:13.279 --> 02:15:16.960 I don't need to have Lebron James in the finals 2829 02:15:17.000 --> 02:15:20.000 in order to enjoy it. I mean, what these teams 2830 02:15:20.119 --> 02:15:23.720 do that game the last night was what basketball fan 2831 02:15:23.800 --> 02:15:24.479 wouldn't love that. 2832 02:15:25.399 --> 02:15:28.600 Jiffy pop as in the popcorn that you put on 2833 02:15:28.720 --> 02:15:31.399 a dovetop like forty years ago. 2834 02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:31.760 Is that. 2835 02:15:33.520 --> 02:15:35.039 They did not have that anymore. 2836 02:15:35.239 --> 02:15:35.680 I don't know. 2837 02:15:35.880 --> 02:15:38.600 I mean, you know, but what I mean is. 2838 02:15:40.399 --> 02:15:41.119 Jiffy pop? 2839 02:15:41.279 --> 02:15:42.119 Are you kidding? 2840 02:15:42.560 --> 02:15:45.159 Happier readers have never even heard of that, Gordon. 2841 02:15:47.760 --> 02:15:51.199 Okay, so I probably could have found a different analogy there, 2842 02:15:51.279 --> 02:15:54.560 But all I know is that offense explodes kind of 2843 02:15:54.640 --> 02:15:58.079 like popcorn colonels, you know. I mean, it's it's fun 2844 02:15:58.159 --> 02:16:00.520 to watch, and I'm not even sure the players know 2845 02:16:00.640 --> 02:16:02.880 exactly what they're gonna do with the ball every time 2846 02:16:03.119 --> 02:16:06.359 on the floor. They know the basics of what they 2847 02:16:06.600 --> 02:16:09.479 like to do, and they're familiar with one another, but 2848 02:16:09.640 --> 02:16:13.159 it's just this kind of I don't know, yeah, explosive offense. 2849 02:16:13.279 --> 02:16:18.199 It's that that really adds to the you know, the 2850 02:16:18.319 --> 02:16:19.560 color features of the game. 2851 02:16:20.760 --> 02:16:22.640 I can't believe you landed on Jiffy Pop. But we 2852 02:16:22.680 --> 02:16:25.520 can move on. The good news, Gordon, if you're a 2853 02:16:25.600 --> 02:16:30.159 jazz fan, is there's one top three pick on both 2854 02:16:30.239 --> 02:16:33.239 of these rosters, and it's Chet. He's the only top 2855 02:16:33.280 --> 02:16:35.319 three pick on both these rosters. So that that's the 2856 02:16:35.360 --> 02:16:37.799 good news the bad news if you're if you're a 2857 02:16:37.920 --> 02:16:42.639 jazz fan is Oklahoma City and in a way Indiana. 2858 02:16:42.719 --> 02:16:44.879 But Indiana has done this a little bit differently because 2859 02:16:44.959 --> 02:16:48.120 they were able to get Pascal Siakam when Toronto decided 2860 02:16:48.200 --> 02:16:51.399 to yard sale, and they you know, and they already 2861 02:16:51.479 --> 02:16:55.239 had Halliburton on the roster. Miles Turner has been there forever. 2862 02:16:56.159 --> 02:16:58.280 Aaron Ne Smith was a Celtic but couldn't get off 2863 02:16:58.319 --> 02:17:03.600 the bench. So like they drafted Benedict Matherin Andrew Nemhard 2864 02:17:04.399 --> 02:17:06.440 but they have not got about this the same way 2865 02:17:06.479 --> 02:17:09.760 Oklahoma City has. The bad news for the Jazz is 2866 02:17:10.079 --> 02:17:12.760 at this point the jury is still out on all 2867 02:17:12.840 --> 02:17:15.840 of their picks, so I can say the good news 2868 02:17:15.959 --> 02:17:18.040 is they're not. The only top three pick in the 2869 02:17:18.120 --> 02:17:22.000 finals is chet Holmgren. But whether it's top three, top five, 2870 02:17:22.120 --> 02:17:27.000 top ten, top fifteen, both rounds, you have to draft 2871 02:17:27.040 --> 02:17:30.040 the right players. It sounds so reductive and simple, but 2872 02:17:30.159 --> 02:17:31.680 you have to hit on the picks and you have 2873 02:17:31.799 --> 02:17:34.840 to start to develop. And they did not draft Walker. 2874 02:17:34.959 --> 02:17:37.200 He was part of the go Bear deal, but he 2875 02:17:37.319 --> 02:17:41.120 has developed under under Will Hardy. There's some things to 2876 02:17:41.319 --> 02:17:44.159 like about Collier, but dude, I don't think Isaiah Collier 2877 02:17:44.239 --> 02:17:47.360 and Caante George even make Oklahoma Cities roster, and I 2878 02:17:47.399 --> 02:17:50.479 don't think Larry starts for them. So the bad news 2879 02:17:50.600 --> 02:17:52.680 is there just is not a lot in the cupboard, 2880 02:17:52.719 --> 02:17:55.479 which leads us to number five. This feels like as 2881 02:17:55.559 --> 02:17:58.479 important as a draft for the Utah Jazz in a 2882 02:17:58.639 --> 02:17:59.319 number of years. 2883 02:17:59.360 --> 02:18:04.200 Would you agree with, Yeah, it's one hundred and there's 2884 02:18:04.280 --> 02:18:07.719 somebody out there. There's somebody in this draft that isn't 2885 02:18:07.760 --> 02:18:11.120 going to be picked in the first four selections, that 2886 02:18:11.239 --> 02:18:14.200 can really help a team in a major, major way. 2887 02:18:14.600 --> 02:18:17.760 And this is where Austin Inge has to dial in 2888 02:18:17.920 --> 02:18:18.559 on that guy. 2889 02:18:18.920 --> 02:18:22.000 Who is it? Well, I mean yeah, they say, well, you. 2890 02:18:22.079 --> 02:18:25.239 Get lucky, sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss it. Now 2891 02:18:25.680 --> 02:18:28.520 the Jazz can't afford to miss. They've missed a couple 2892 02:18:28.680 --> 02:18:31.840 times already in my opinion, as you articulated, and this 2893 02:18:32.000 --> 02:18:35.040 time they cannot miss. They have to take advantage of 2894 02:18:35.120 --> 02:18:38.239 what they have here and then once if they do 2895 02:18:38.479 --> 02:18:40.639 hit on their draft picks, then they got to do 2896 02:18:40.840 --> 02:18:43.520 what the Pacers and what okay see you have done 2897 02:18:43.840 --> 02:18:46.680 in selecting a guy that they can bring in who 2898 02:18:46.799 --> 02:18:52.360 may be less thought of than what the Jazz recognize 2899 02:18:52.399 --> 02:18:56.200 that they can be. I mean you mentioned the trades, 2900 02:18:57.000 --> 02:19:01.639 the Pacers getting Halliburton and okay see a CA. I 2901 02:19:01.680 --> 02:19:07.000 mean those are just really savvy, smart moves by smart 2902 02:19:07.079 --> 02:19:12.239 front office people. How smart are the Jazz front office guys? Danny, 2903 02:19:12.399 --> 02:19:16.120 I don't know, his golf game's probably really good. Austin 2904 02:19:16.280 --> 02:19:18.840 seems like he's more dialed in and maybe he's on 2905 02:19:19.000 --> 02:19:22.719 top of these things. But I mean if they miss, 2906 02:19:23.360 --> 02:19:26.719 if they miss, then they flounder. And think about it 2907 02:19:27.040 --> 02:19:30.120 in the past, when the Jazz hit on draft picks, 2908 02:19:30.639 --> 02:19:32.520 then it really helped him. I mean, we don't need 2909 02:19:32.559 --> 02:19:36.120 to go through the Stockton on loans of situations sixteen 2910 02:19:36.200 --> 02:19:38.520 to thirteen. I mean, look at it when they got 2911 02:19:38.600 --> 02:19:41.680 down of Van Menchell and others. It was through smart, 2912 02:19:42.120 --> 02:19:46.559 smart moves by the Jazz. So recognizing the kind of 2913 02:19:46.719 --> 02:19:49.760 talent that can be utilized in the system that they 2914 02:19:49.840 --> 02:19:50.360 want to run. 2915 02:19:50.440 --> 02:19:53.600 Here, go get that guy. If it's not Cooper. 2916 02:19:53.440 --> 02:19:55.360 Flagg, because you're not going to have an opportunity to 2917 02:19:55.360 --> 02:19:57.399 get in. We'll get somebody who's going to be just 2918 02:19:57.520 --> 02:20:00.840 as good as him that maybe other people don't don't recognize. 2919 02:20:02.639 --> 02:20:06.280 It's I'm not saying it's easy, but it's something that 2920 02:20:06.399 --> 02:20:08.719 has to be done in order for the Jazz to succeed. 2921 02:20:09.239 --> 02:20:12.200 Yeah, this stuff isn't easy, and you know when you're 2922 02:20:12.280 --> 02:20:14.440 able to and you know, one of the reasons why 2923 02:20:14.760 --> 02:20:20.559 not grabbing one overall Stings this year or are you there? Yeah, 2924 02:20:21.000 --> 02:20:22.719 sorry about that one of the one of the reasons 2925 02:20:22.760 --> 02:20:25.719 why not grabbing one overall Sting, Well, there are several reasons. 2926 02:20:25.760 --> 02:20:30.280 Because Cooper's awesome. But when you have the guy like 2927 02:20:30.600 --> 02:20:33.920 san Antonio has Women Yama, then Chris Paul will sign 2928 02:20:33.959 --> 02:20:35.920 with you. And I know Chris Paul is you know, 2929 02:20:36.040 --> 02:20:38.799 not who he used to be. But Daron Fox will 2930 02:20:38.799 --> 02:20:41.399 greenlight a trade to san Antonio because you have Women Yama. 2931 02:20:41.639 --> 02:20:43.879 If the Jazz can find their answer to that and 2932 02:20:44.079 --> 02:20:47.399 it's not Cooper Flag maybe it's Aja Debonsa, then you've 2933 02:20:47.479 --> 02:20:51.520 got something. Then agents will take your phone call to say, Okay, yes, 2934 02:20:51.760 --> 02:20:53.719 I want my client to come play for you because 2935 02:20:53.719 --> 02:20:55.959 you have this great young piece and all players want 2936 02:20:56.000 --> 02:20:58.639 to win and get paid. Right now, the Jazzes don't 2937 02:20:58.680 --> 02:21:01.600 have that. Like no one, no agent is calling it 2938 02:21:01.639 --> 02:21:04.319 Austin agent saying hey, my client would really love to 2939 02:21:04.319 --> 02:21:06.799 play off of Johnny Jeuzeg like. They just don't have 2940 02:21:07.000 --> 02:21:10.159 the piece as of now to attract other players, which 2941 02:21:10.200 --> 02:21:12.440 is why this has to be a long game. One 2942 02:21:12.479 --> 02:21:14.559 more Jazz thing that I do have some other things 2943 02:21:14.600 --> 02:21:18.079 for it, then I'll set you loose. Tom Thibodeau just 2944 02:21:18.239 --> 02:21:21.040 lost his job after going to the Eastern Conference finals 2945 02:21:21.159 --> 02:21:23.920 and winning fifty games back to back seasons and making 2946 02:21:23.959 --> 02:21:27.159 the playoffs four or five years. Michael Malone just lost 2947 02:21:27.200 --> 02:21:30.360 his job after winning a championship two years ago. Taylor Jenkins, 2948 02:21:30.719 --> 02:21:32.719 a lot of good coaches have lost their jobs. Will 2949 02:21:32.760 --> 02:21:35.799 hardly received a five year contract extension. He's won thirty 2950 02:21:35.840 --> 02:21:38.760 three percent of his games. The Jazz have locked in 2951 02:21:38.840 --> 02:21:41.319 their front office with Austin Danny and Jay Z and 2952 02:21:41.399 --> 02:21:44.479 other pieces moving forward. So the problem is, it doesn't 2953 02:21:44.520 --> 02:21:46.399 matter who you cut your coach is, It doesn't matter 2954 02:21:46.440 --> 02:21:49.040 who your front office is if you have bad basketball players. 2955 02:21:49.479 --> 02:21:52.559 But is there a silver lining that Ryan and Ashley 2956 02:21:52.600 --> 02:21:55.440 Smith appear to be hiring people they believe in and 2957 02:21:55.600 --> 02:21:57.799 giving them space to do their jobs and giving them 2958 02:21:57.840 --> 02:21:59.680 the long game to do this From a front office 2959 02:21:59.680 --> 02:22:01.280 and coach perspective. 2960 02:22:01.760 --> 02:22:03.360 Yeah, it's been to you and I have had this 2961 02:22:03.479 --> 02:22:08.000 conversation so many times. That's the single most important element 2962 02:22:08.600 --> 02:22:11.760 in any franchise is the owner and what the owner 2963 02:22:11.879 --> 02:22:15.719 is willing to do. And if Austin Ains can bring 2964 02:22:15.879 --> 02:22:19.639 to this team what is necessary, which we've thoroughly discussed here, 2965 02:22:20.200 --> 02:22:24.319 then yeah, they're willing to pay them to be here 2966 02:22:24.680 --> 02:22:27.079 and pay them to keep them here, and that's what 2967 02:22:27.399 --> 02:22:31.959 has to happen. I mean, it sounds unfair in some ways, 2968 02:22:32.120 --> 02:22:35.200 like Okay, Spencer, we say, Okay, you just got to 2969 02:22:35.239 --> 02:22:37.520 be smarter than the other guys. That's just the way 2970 02:22:37.559 --> 02:22:40.559 it is. That's what they gotta do. And if Ryan 2971 02:22:40.680 --> 02:22:44.639 Smith is willing to continue to pour resources into this, 2972 02:22:45.280 --> 02:22:49.239 then yeah, they can get it done. But like you said, 2973 02:22:49.360 --> 02:22:51.799 that number five pick is huge for this team this 2974 02:22:52.000 --> 02:22:54.079 year for the very reasoning you talked about. 2975 02:22:54.239 --> 02:22:55.239 And I remember it used to. 2976 02:22:55.239 --> 02:22:58.239 Be that people said these small market teams, players don't 2977 02:22:58.239 --> 02:23:01.479 want to go play there. We'll talk to players on 2978 02:23:01.600 --> 02:23:04.680 the Thunder, talk to the players on the Pacers, two 2979 02:23:04.760 --> 02:23:08.479 supposedly small market teams, and then talk about how much 2980 02:23:08.559 --> 02:23:11.239 they like playing what they're where they're playing. I mean, 2981 02:23:11.280 --> 02:23:14.440 but you said it exactly right. They have they have 2982 02:23:14.600 --> 02:23:19.239 assets involved in their franchises that draw other players in 2983 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:23.440 and as you so articulately said there right now, the 2984 02:23:23.600 --> 02:23:25.520 Jazz don't have that, all. 2985 02:23:25.440 --> 02:23:29.200 Right, switching gears here before I set you loose, you know. 2986 02:23:29.360 --> 02:23:32.200 And this is a complicated story to talk about, but 2987 02:23:32.280 --> 02:23:34.520 you've always excelled in things like this, and I hate 2988 02:23:34.520 --> 02:23:36.479 to make it a football story, but Jake Rehetz laugh 2989 02:23:36.559 --> 02:23:39.639 as the starting quarterback at Bringham Young University, and since 2990 02:23:39.680 --> 02:23:42.159 you and I last spoke, a civil suit has been filed. 2991 02:23:42.879 --> 02:23:46.040 No criminal charges, as I continue to remind everybody, and 2992 02:23:46.159 --> 02:23:50.200 these are allegations and Jake deserves the process like everybody else, 2993 02:23:50.280 --> 02:23:51.879 and so we'll kind of see how it plays out. 2994 02:23:52.520 --> 02:23:55.559 It adds an extra layer of complication as far as 2995 02:23:55.639 --> 02:23:57.879 where he plays and the honor code which he is 2996 02:23:59.520 --> 02:24:01.239 forced to it here too. I don't want to say, 2997 02:24:01.280 --> 02:24:02.680 but like he has to do it here too if 2998 02:24:02.680 --> 02:24:04.399 he wants to be a student and an athlete at 2999 02:24:04.440 --> 02:24:06.479 b YU. They all have to. That's just the deal. 3000 02:24:07.000 --> 02:24:08.760 If you're playing down there, if you're going to school 3001 02:24:08.799 --> 02:24:11.680 down there. So your thoughts on where we find ourselves 3002 02:24:11.719 --> 02:24:14.959 and just some thoughts on how Brian Santiago and BYU 3003 02:24:15.079 --> 02:24:17.479 kind of have to traverse this newly complicated space. 3004 02:24:19.399 --> 02:24:22.520 Well, it's if you're going to break the law and 3005 02:24:22.600 --> 02:24:25.479 you're going to hurt people, then you're in big trouble. 3006 02:24:26.600 --> 02:24:27.639 It's just the way it is. 3007 02:24:27.760 --> 02:24:31.879 I mean, anybody theoretically has to follow the law, but 3008 02:24:32.040 --> 02:24:35.159 at BYU you can't bail out by saying things are 3009 02:24:35.239 --> 02:24:39.120 consensual or other things that might be utilized in other 3010 02:24:39.239 --> 02:24:42.520 cases because the our code is there. It's an extra layer, 3011 02:24:43.000 --> 02:24:46.680 the behavioral code that is going to demand a certain 3012 02:24:47.200 --> 02:24:52.200 kind of behavior. And so I don't know, I this 3013 02:24:52.280 --> 02:24:53.879 is what I think is gonna happen in this case. 3014 02:24:54.399 --> 02:24:57.000 This if this plays out in the courts, it's going. 3015 02:24:56.959 --> 02:24:59.200 To take over a year to give it settled. 3016 02:25:00.239 --> 02:25:03.200 Where does that leave BYU bs in situations where they 3017 02:25:03.639 --> 02:25:05.799 I don't think they can afford to have their starting 3018 02:25:05.879 --> 02:25:10.280 quarterback be playing under this kind of dark cloud. So 3019 02:25:10.559 --> 02:25:12.799 what they have to do in my opinion, I'm not 3020 02:25:12.799 --> 02:25:16.639 an attorney, but by us access to a whole lot 3021 02:25:16.719 --> 02:25:18.879 of those they need to go out and find out 3022 02:25:18.959 --> 02:25:24.879 what really happened and then move on it in that direction. 3023 02:25:25.319 --> 02:25:27.879 If they can get it solved beforehand that it isn't 3024 02:25:27.920 --> 02:25:32.239 a thing, then then they can move on but if 3025 02:25:32.280 --> 02:25:35.760 there's that cloud, if there's any if there's that doubt, 3026 02:25:36.440 --> 02:25:39.040 then yet you want people to have a due process, 3027 02:25:39.639 --> 02:25:42.479 and you want to presume them innicine until proven guilty. 3028 02:25:43.079 --> 02:25:47.040 But by is a different beast. I mean they cannot. 3029 02:25:47.559 --> 02:25:49.840 They cannot abide that. And I there's a whole lot 3030 02:25:49.879 --> 02:25:53.719 of colleges out there, university football programs who couldn't abide it, 3031 02:25:54.479 --> 02:25:59.200 at least among them BYU. So I really I don't 3032 02:25:59.239 --> 02:26:03.959 want to can him anyone before it is made as 3033 02:26:04.079 --> 02:26:05.159 certain as possible. 3034 02:26:05.600 --> 02:26:08.399 But doing things away by you does. 3035 02:26:08.479 --> 02:26:10.840 I don't think they can afford the luxury to wait 3036 02:26:10.959 --> 02:26:12.520 that long, Gordo. 3037 02:26:12.600 --> 02:26:15.520 It's been too long. I appreciate the time. Was that 3038 02:26:15.719 --> 02:26:17.840 hat more than two hundred dollars? Tell me the truth? 3039 02:26:18.840 --> 02:26:20.600 No, it was not, It was not. 3040 02:26:23.719 --> 02:26:27.440 I I think I've moosted off someone on the street somewhere. 3041 02:26:27.520 --> 02:26:29.920 I just kind of all of that hat. 3042 02:26:30.959 --> 02:26:33.600 There's a Rodney Danger filled bowl of soup joke in 3043 02:26:33.639 --> 02:26:36.159 here somewhere, Gordo. But hey, you wore it't well. Looked 3044 02:26:36.200 --> 02:26:38.399 like you guys had a great time. I always enjoy 3045 02:26:38.520 --> 02:26:40.079 visiting with you. Let's do it again soon, Okay. 3046 02:26:40.840 --> 02:26:42.559 I think the line is oh no no, but it 3047 02:26:42.680 --> 02:26:43.399 looks good on you. 3048 02:26:44.200 --> 02:26:47.280 Thank you, sir, be good Okay. See hip by Gordon 3049 02:26:47.360 --> 02:26:50.079 Monts in Salt Lake Tribune. I always appreciate his time. 3050 02:26:50.159 --> 02:26:53.239 Some good stuff there from Gordo. I love Zach Brown Bands. 3051 02:26:54.159 --> 02:26:55.200 Man love that. 3052 02:26:55.239 --> 02:26:57.840 We're ending the show with a little Oh wait is this? 3053 02:26:58.040 --> 02:26:58.159 Uh? 3054 02:26:59.479 --> 02:27:01.440 Those are quote this our guy Coulter. 3055 02:27:01.319 --> 02:27:03.079 Right, little Zach Brown band. 3056 02:27:03.159 --> 02:27:04.879 He says, you like Zach Brown band? 3057 02:27:04.959 --> 02:27:07.840 I do actually like Zach Brown. It's it's one of 3058 02:27:07.879 --> 02:27:10.319 those that kind of bridges the gap. Although he does 3059 02:27:10.440 --> 02:27:12.600 sing about like I don't know if you've ever heard 3060 02:27:12.639 --> 02:27:16.079 the song toes, it's just like about the beach and 3061 02:27:16.159 --> 02:27:20.479 beers and and whatnot. I think he does so with uh, 3062 02:27:21.280 --> 02:27:23.159 I don't know, I don't know, a little less corniness 3063 02:27:23.239 --> 02:27:23.639 than other. 3064 02:27:23.840 --> 02:27:27.120 What's the one about chicken fried rise, It's just chicken. 3065 02:27:27.280 --> 02:27:30.440 It's just choked bit of chicken fried cold beer on 3066 02:27:30.440 --> 02:27:30.959 a Friday night. 3067 02:27:31.040 --> 02:27:34.600 Yeah, it's the same. The jeans that fit just right, Yeah, exactly. 3068 02:27:34.719 --> 02:27:38.319 And the radio on yep, hmm, wait is uh what's 3069 02:27:38.360 --> 02:27:41.239 the what's the land law lyric? George Jones on the radio? Uh, 3070 02:27:42.399 --> 02:27:45.079 my favorite, my favorite part of any Landlaw video I've 3071 02:27:45.159 --> 02:27:48.719 seen is when he they show him, he talks about 3072 02:27:49.000 --> 02:27:51.079 he's got a crossbow, he's getting ready to shoot a deer. 3073 02:27:51.120 --> 02:27:53.000 And our guy does the he does the thing where 3074 02:27:53.000 --> 02:27:54.719 he's about to shoot a deer, and you can tell 3075 02:27:54.760 --> 02:27:56.879 that he's never shot a crossbow in his entire life. 3076 02:27:57.000 --> 02:27:59.520 You never never pulled back on the on the bow. Yeah, 3077 02:27:59.559 --> 02:28:03.559 that's uh, that's a good one. I forgot to play 3078 02:28:03.559 --> 02:28:05.639 our Land Law though our boys. You know, we'll get 3079 02:28:05.680 --> 02:28:05.920 over it. 3080 02:28:06.239 --> 02:28:08.799 It's such a horrible, horrible piece of music. But just 3081 02:28:08.920 --> 02:28:10.520 keep going, guys, keep doing. 3082 02:28:10.360 --> 02:28:12.200 Your thing, keep getting the clicks. 3083 02:28:12.239 --> 02:28:13.840 Why don't we start a band? If they can do it. 3084 02:28:13.879 --> 02:28:15.280 I've got a better voice than he does. 3085 02:28:15.360 --> 02:28:19.280 Right now, I could make some bad music, you know, 3086 02:28:19.559 --> 02:28:21.200 if I tried really hard, I think I can make 3087 02:28:21.280 --> 02:28:25.040 like a very mediocre song. But I don't know if 3088 02:28:25.079 --> 02:28:27.280 I could do something well now, I could do something 3089 02:28:27.360 --> 02:28:29.840 corny enough to get some hate views on the internet. 3090 02:28:29.959 --> 02:28:32.040 I'm sure you could. I mean, if they can, anybody 3091 02:28:32.120 --> 02:28:35.040 can do it, certainly, So shout out land Law on 3092 02:28:35.200 --> 02:28:39.120 this beautiful Friday afternoon, all right before we say goodnight. 3093 02:28:39.520 --> 02:28:41.479 I don't usually do this, but it's a big day 3094 02:28:41.520 --> 02:28:44.040 for your boy here. So my son's in town. Shout 3095 02:28:44.079 --> 02:28:46.600 out Connor and the only I didn't used to talk 3096 02:28:46.600 --> 02:28:48.479 about this. If you're aware of my story at all, 3097 02:28:48.559 --> 02:28:51.360 you might you may or may not be. But today 3098 02:28:51.479 --> 02:28:54.719 is my twenty two year anniversary of a surgery. I 3099 02:28:54.799 --> 02:28:57.079 had to remove a cancerous brain tumor when I was 3100 02:28:57.239 --> 02:29:00.520 just twenty five years old, and I was not supposed 3101 02:29:00.559 --> 02:29:02.639 to survive that surgery. It was a twelve hour surgery, 3102 02:29:03.120 --> 02:29:05.399 and before I went in, they had me say goodbye 3103 02:29:05.440 --> 02:29:07.360 to all my family and my friends, and I didn't 3104 02:29:07.479 --> 02:29:10.959 fully realize the severity of the situation I was dealing with. 3105 02:29:11.159 --> 02:29:13.159 But I was lucky to have great care by Bill 3106 02:29:13.280 --> 02:29:16.680 Caldwell and the Huntsman Cancer Institute, and I came out 3107 02:29:16.760 --> 02:29:21.040 with more or less a normal quality of life. Certainly, 3108 02:29:21.120 --> 02:29:23.799 that surgery left some residual effects with balance and some 3109 02:29:23.879 --> 02:29:26.040 physical stuff that I still battle to this day. But 3110 02:29:27.000 --> 02:29:28.680 my son is in town, and he is about to 3111 02:29:28.719 --> 02:29:31.920 turn twenty four years old next month, and my only 3112 02:29:32.399 --> 02:29:34.520 desire and wish was to watch him grow. He was 3113 02:29:34.600 --> 02:29:36.319 two years old at the time, and I've been able 3114 02:29:36.360 --> 02:29:38.920 to do that. I didn't used to talk about this 3115 02:29:39.000 --> 02:29:41.319 because it's a private thing. But I feel like every 3116 02:29:41.360 --> 02:29:43.319 time I do, it's important to point out that the 3117 02:29:43.440 --> 02:29:46.559 reason I was able to survive that is we were 3118 02:29:46.639 --> 02:29:49.879 able to get the tumor before it became embedded into 3119 02:29:49.959 --> 02:29:52.479 my brain. And when that happened, you can't operate, And 3120 02:29:52.760 --> 02:29:54.799 as doctors say, it's a six pack and a fishing 3121 02:29:54.840 --> 02:29:57.879 pole and it's best of luck. So early detection is key. 3122 02:29:58.120 --> 02:30:00.799 We are so blessed to live in a city with 3123 02:30:00.920 --> 02:30:04.360 truly one of the best cancer care facilities in the world. 3124 02:30:05.159 --> 02:30:06.840 When we were trying to figure out what we were 3125 02:30:06.879 --> 02:30:11.079 going to do once my situation manifested itself, we called 3126 02:30:11.239 --> 02:30:15.360 our family care doc in midtown Manhattan and said, okay, 3127 02:30:15.399 --> 02:30:16.719 what do we need to do? Where do we need 3128 02:30:16.799 --> 02:30:19.280 to be? And he said, well, one of two facilities. 3129 02:30:19.319 --> 02:30:21.440 One is Sloan Kettering back East, and the other one 3130 02:30:21.520 --> 02:30:24.159 is right where you're at in Salt Lake. So if 3131 02:30:24.200 --> 02:30:26.719 you're at Huntsman Cancer you're in great care. You don't 3132 02:30:26.760 --> 02:30:29.200 need to go anywhere. And they saved my life. And 3133 02:30:29.280 --> 02:30:32.440 Bill Caldwell, my surgeon, saved my life. So just once 3134 02:30:32.479 --> 02:30:34.680 a year, but like to do this on my anniversary, 3135 02:30:34.760 --> 02:30:37.120 which kind of lands differently as you get older and 3136 02:30:37.200 --> 02:30:40.760 you realize how blessed you've been to survive such things 3137 02:30:40.840 --> 02:30:42.559 that you know, go in and get checked if you 3138 02:30:42.639 --> 02:30:45.200 have any questions about anything that's going on. Doesn't have 3139 02:30:45.280 --> 02:30:47.399 to be a brain tumor, could be anything, because early 3140 02:30:47.520 --> 02:30:52.440 detection can save your life. So I won't blaker to point, 3141 02:30:52.520 --> 02:30:54.520 but I like to talk about this once a year 3142 02:30:54.920 --> 02:30:56.840 as it's a big day for me and it's nice 3143 02:30:56.840 --> 02:30:59.719 to have my son in town to celebrate that. All right, 3144 02:31:00.559 --> 02:31:02.879 before we say goa nights, here's the question. Before we 3145 02:31:02.920 --> 02:31:05.680 say good night. On Monday, we'll be talking about a 3146 02:31:05.719 --> 02:31:08.840 series that's won one or two zero Indiana. 3147 02:31:08.959 --> 02:31:10.719 We're gonna see a one one bounce back. We're gonna 3148 02:31:10.719 --> 02:31:13.319 see a bounce back from okay See. I'm confident that 3149 02:31:14.200 --> 02:31:17.920 that they, you know, respond to what happened in Game one, 3150 02:31:18.079 --> 02:31:20.440 which was I don't want to say a fluke because 3151 02:31:20.440 --> 02:31:23.479 we've seen it what six seven times in the postseason 3152 02:31:23.520 --> 02:31:27.239 already this year. But I have very little doubt that 3153 02:31:27.319 --> 02:31:30.959 okay See responds. But when you lose Game one and 3154 02:31:31.079 --> 02:31:33.079 you do it on your home floor, and you do 3155 02:31:33.200 --> 02:31:35.840 it like that, well you have a series on your hands. 3156 02:31:36.120 --> 02:31:38.520 No doubt, no doubt. So, as I said, yesterday. I 3157 02:31:38.559 --> 02:31:41.440 will take Oklahoma City in five. But I certainly am 3158 02:31:41.680 --> 02:31:44.360 cheering for a long series of great basketball and we 3159 02:31:44.479 --> 02:31:47.040 definitely had that last night. All right, Porter, what comes 3160 02:31:47.079 --> 02:31:49.159 our way? On a Monday edition of The Drive. 3161 02:31:49.399 --> 02:31:52.719 On a Monday version of The Drive, Spence, we'll we'll 3162 02:31:52.760 --> 02:31:56.440 of course recap the NBA weekend NBA Finals Game two. 3163 02:31:56.600 --> 02:32:00.280 Tom Haberstrow stops by for the NBA Daily Assist. We'll 3164 02:32:00.319 --> 02:32:03.280 go into Indiana. Brad Knight of the Pacers Post Up 3165 02:32:03.600 --> 02:32:06.520 Podcast joins us. On a Monday, We'll chat with Richard 3166 02:32:06.600 --> 02:32:09.360 Smitty Smith in studio and catch up with Ted Robinson, 3167 02:32:10.280 --> 02:32:13.680 talk a little Roland Garros, maybe off season college football 3168 02:32:13.719 --> 02:32:14.399 mostly as well. 3169 02:32:14.719 --> 02:32:17.040 On a Monday, love that, love that, catch up with 3170 02:32:17.159 --> 02:32:19.239 Uncle Ted. It's always a good time. Special thank you 3171 02:32:19.360 --> 02:32:22.000 today to Chris Russo, Howard Beck, Zach Harper, and Gordon 3172 02:32:22.040 --> 02:32:23.600 Monson for in the sound you may have missed from 3173 02:32:23.600 --> 02:32:26.000 the show today. Head on over to the website. It's 3174 02:32:26.399 --> 02:32:29.079 ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. Make sure to download 3175 02:32:29.159 --> 02:32:31.559 our mobile app and take us on the go. That's 3176 02:32:31.600 --> 02:32:34.639 how I listen to our station. ESPN seven hundred app 3177 02:32:34.719 --> 02:32:36.520 is available for free in the app Store. In the 3178 02:32:36.559 --> 02:32:39.719 Google Play Store as well. And then finally for what 3179 02:32:39.879 --> 02:32:42.639 we do in our space every afternoon for four hours. 3180 02:32:42.719 --> 02:32:45.520 Check out our podcast page. It is called The Drive 3181 02:32:45.559 --> 02:32:47.920 with Spence Jeckets. It's available wherever you get your shows. 3182 02:32:47.959 --> 02:32:50.680 So go to your preferred podcast catcher, subscribe, rate, review, 3183 02:32:51.239 --> 02:32:53.280 say nice things in the comments, and give us all 3184 02:32:53.360 --> 02:32:55.200 the stars. You will be eternally blessed. 3185 02:32:55.239 --> 02:32:55.559 Reporter. 3186 02:32:55.639 --> 02:32:58.319 I'm Spence saying it. I have a great weekend. Everybody, 3187 02:32:58.440 --> 02:32:59.879 be good to yourself and be good to each other. 3188 02:33:00.120 --> 02:33:02.159 Talk to you on a Monday edition of the Drive. 3189 02:33:02.200 --> 02:33:04.239 And as always, you can catch that right here on 3190 02:33:04.559 --> 02:33:06.520 ESPN seven hundred ninety to one. FFM proud to be 3191 02:33:06.559 --> 02:33:08.799 part of Utah's ESPN Radio Network.