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Hi, 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.679 this is Carl Franklin. 8 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:25.480 And this is Richard Campbell. 9 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:30.000 We've got two special shows coming up soon, episode nineteen 10 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:32.039 ninety nine and two thousand. 11 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.079 For episode nineteen ninety nine, we're collecting people's y two 12 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:37.560 k stories what did you do to help the Y 13 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:39.719 two k event not actually happen? 14 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.960 And for episode two thousand, we're going to be sharing 15 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.479 stories about how dot net shaped your career. 16 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.719 We have a special page at dot netroocks dot com 17 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.159 slash voxpop where you can record messages for us that 18 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.000 we can play on these special episodes. 19 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:56.640 So tell us what you did for Y two k. 20 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:58.880 And what dot net means to you, and of. 21 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:00.960 Course how long you've been listening to dot net rocks. 22 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:04.439 So go to dot netroocks dot com slash vox pop 23 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:06.480 now and leave us a message before the thought of 24 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:09.200 operates like whiskey left in a glass overnight. 25 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:24.760 Do it? Hey, welcome back to dot net Rocks. I'm 26 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:28.519 Carl Franklin, an amateur Campbell. Brady Gaster is with us again. 27 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:31.959 He's been here, well, he was here last year in November. 28 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.920 But we got some really cool stuff to talk about. 29 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:39.560 But first, Richard, Yeah, buddy, this being episode nineteen hundred 30 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:41.879 and ninety four, let's talk about what happened that year. 31 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:44.599 M H and Brady feel free to jump in during 32 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.280 this whole debacle here. 33 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.120 If you remember ninety four, I bet you do. 34 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:51.239 I do remember ninety four. Yeah, I was living in 35 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.439 New York with my then girlfriend who I was to. 36 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:58.280 Oh no, I guess we were married by then. Oh 37 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:02.159 but anyway, I do remember Nelson Mandela being sworn in 38 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:06.079 as South Africa's first black president. I remember the NAFTA 39 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:10.439 North American Free Trade Agreement took effect, kicking in in 40 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.159 the chunnel winking, the UK and France officially opened the 41 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:14.840 Channel Tunnel. 42 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.840 Yeah, amazing piece of work, wildly over budget and over time, 43 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:20.400 but you know it's nice that it's still functional this day. 44 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.759 Yeah, that's true. Some really bad things happened, of course, 45 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:29.319 the genocide in Rwanda, bad, bad, bad, Yeah, the Northridge 46 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:34.800 earthquake in California, but some other stuff. Ol O J. 47 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.800 Simpson was arrested after a televised. 48 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.560 Yeah the White Bronco. 49 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:47.719 Yeah. Fore Tanya Harding was banned for life following the 50 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:51.879 attack on Nancy Kerrigan Baseball Strike, things like that. 51 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:53.919 Uh. 52 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:59.479 Some TV shows, The sitcom Friends premiered a couple of 53 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.800 Conic films, Forrest Gump, The Shawshank Redemption one of my. 54 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.759 Favorite stories ever, great film. 55 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:10.400 And The Lion King. And of course, Nirvana frontman Kurt 56 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:14.520 Cobain died by suicide that year. Yeah twenty seven, Yeah, Hey, 57 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:16.639 I might as well get the top ten albums of 58 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.280 nineteen ninety four out of the way. Sure, Sound Garden, 59 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:25.199 super Unknown, Black Hole, Sun, great song, Launch You Come. 60 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.000 It's a great song. Celine Dion The Color of My 61 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.639 Love had Her Hits, The Power of Love and Think Twice, 62 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:39.680 Pearl Jam, Vitology, Better Man, Camp, Find Better Man, Spin, 63 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.000 The Black Circle and Not for You, bon Jovi, Cross 64 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:48.240 Road Always and Someday I'll Be Saturday Night where the 65 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:55.840 hits TLC, Crazy Sexy, Cool, Creep, Red Light Special and Waterfalls, 66 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:01.560 great songs, Boys to Men Too, singles I'll Make Love 67 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:07.960 to You on Bended Knee and Water Runs, Dry Green Day, Dookie, 68 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:14.479 basket Case, When I Come Around, Longview, Lion King, various artists, 69 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.480 Circle of Life, Elton John, of course, Hakuna Matata, Can 70 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:21.199 You Feel the Love Tonight? With the hits there Music 71 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:23.879 Box by Mariah Carey, which was number one last year, 72 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.560 is number two, Dream Lover, Hero and Without You were 73 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:32.040 the hits, and number one Pink Floyd the Division Bell 74 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:39.040 Take It Back, High Hopes, Keep Talking other hits as well, 75 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:44.240 another stunner. Yeah, absolutely great, great album. Okay, what do 76 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.120 you got for nineteen ninety four, Richard In. 77 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.120 On the space side, there are three flights to Mirror 78 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.319 this year, which is a lot. This is now the 79 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.959 Russian Federation, so they're sort of gearing things up. The 80 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:01.759 first one, eighteen, has Valerie y Akov on it, who 81 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:05.160 will then hold the record for the longest single trip 82 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.399 into space at four hundred and thirty seven days, but 83 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.399 of course that won't be until nineteen ninety six. Yeah. 84 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:17.040 On the shuttle side there is seven missions total, two 85 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:21.439 for Discovery, two for Columbia, two for Endeavor, and one 86 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:23.920 for Atlantis the most interesting one. Most of them are 87 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.879 just straight science missions, but this is the in February, 88 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:31.360 the mission with Discovery has Sergei Krikalev on board. It's 89 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.199 the first time a Russian will ever fly on the Shuttle. 90 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.560 It's the beginning of the Shuttle Mirror program. One of 91 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.720 the things they tested on this mission was direct communications 92 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.560 with mir so getting the right radios, figuring out connections 93 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:45.800 and so forth, which will be beginning over the next 94 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.839 few years to culminate in actually docking a Shuttle to 95 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.000 Mirror and that whole initiative. So it begins in nineteen 96 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:53.839 ninety four. 97 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.839 I was back when Russia liked us. Remember that, there's 98 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.240 this brief interval where, you know, so they liked us 99 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:00.879 because we were giving them a lot of money. 100 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.800 We certainly were support helping support them to try and 101 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:06.720 go into a commercial economy and you know, open things up. 102 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.199 This is also when it's actually ninety three that they 103 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:12.680 made the agreement to do the International Space Station. The 104 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:14.240 US have been trying to come up with space station 105 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:18.120 plan for a while, and so in nineteen ninety four 106 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:23.240 NASA actually opens the Space Station Processing Facility to start 107 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.600 building their components. While the Russians have actually got existing 108 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.279 components that were going to be for Mere two that 109 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.519 will be turned into the first of the International Space 110 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.720 Station components. One more space mission actually is in January. 111 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.639 It's one of my very favorites. Launched out of Vandenberg 112 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.160 Space Space on a Titan two, the same rocket that 113 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.120 they flew the Gemini missions on back in the day, 114 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:51.399 was the Klementine mission. So what was Clementine. Clementine was 115 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:56.240 actually a test article built by the Ballistic Missile Defense Group, 116 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:58.480 So jump all the way back to the eighties and 117 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:02.199 the full on Cold War and Ronald Reagan and he 118 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.639 had his Strategic Defense Initiative, which diominally called star Wars, 119 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:09.319 and in that was this idea that it would be 120 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.000 this array of satellites that would monitor for any launches 121 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.319 of ICBMs and then other satellites that could actually shoot 122 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:21.879 them down. And they had great names like Brilliant Pebble. Well, 123 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:27.399 Clementine was actually a prototype Brilliant Pebble, a small satellite 124 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:30.879 with maneuvering systems and great sensors and so forth. And 125 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:32.839 after they finished the test article, but the program had 126 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:37.120 been shut down, the Blistic Defense the Initiative group basically 127 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.279 said an Astley, you want this thing, and they're like sure, 128 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.360 and they repurposed it into an explorer satellite and its 129 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.079 mission was to hear that fly to the Moon and 130 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.639 then it was going to fly on from there to 131 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.040 intercept a near Earth asteroid, at which point it would 132 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:56.600 be lost and gone forever. 133 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.120 I see, I see. I thought it was because of 134 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:00.800 smell like oranges. 135 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.800 No, they literally backed into the acronym based on the 136 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:05.639 fact that they were going to losing them forever. Now. 137 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.240 The Clementine mission, they never made it to the asteroid. 138 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.319 They did get to the Moon, and one of the 139 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.639 experiments they did was bouncing radar off of the poles 140 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.360 of the Moon. Even going back to the Apollo Ara, 141 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:21.519 there's this idea that there might be ice on the Moon, 142 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.560 but there was absolutely no proof, and so there was 143 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.000 an attempt by Clementine doing these radar experiments actually bounced them, 144 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.680 transmitting them from Clementine off the surface of the Moon 145 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:36.480 to Aricibo. The old gigantic dish it's now gone in 146 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:40.120 Puerto Rico, and the reflectivity that got from it was 147 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:44.879 an indicator of hydrogen and austri There was some proof 148 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:48.000 that there might be ice and lots of it in 149 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.799 shaded craters on the poles of the moon. So that 150 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:54.759 was sort of the first indications that came from the 151 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.559 Clementine mission, and very much your swords into plowshares kind 152 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.879 of took old Cold War tool and turn it into 153 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.879 a science project. Now, okay, cool, that's all I got 154 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:08.919 for space. Let's talk a little bit about computing at 155 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:12.639 a time. Of course, the Internet is emerging rapidly. In 156 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:14.559 nineteen nighty four is a year that the World Wide 157 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.639 Web Consortium is formed, with offices in CERN and at MT, 158 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.600 with Tim berners Lee heavily involved. A guy named hack 159 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.519 On wim Lee proposes a thing called cascading style sheets, 160 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:28.639 and none of us are afraid enough at the time 161 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:32.320 to know we should stop that. Man. Oh wait, did 162 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.879 I say that? I thought that's too bad. And Rasmus 163 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:42.000 Laerdorf publishes the first specifications for PHP PHP, the acronym 164 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:45.559 being PHP Hypertext Processor because recursive. 165 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.360 I thought Rory Blis's definition was good. Pretty hot programmer. 166 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:53.200 There you go a group called the Enterprise Integration Technologies 167 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.559 which founds a group called commerce Net, and they do 168 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.600 the first credit card transactions. 169 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.799 On the Internet. Yep, I remember those days. 170 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.799 Which causes by the middle of the year, pizza Hut 171 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.639 to stand up, the first online pizza ordering service, which 172 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.000 is actually the first online purchasing service of any kind. 173 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:12.480 Really. Yeah. 174 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.840 Also the year that the Snopes website stands up to 175 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:21.639 debunk everything everything, yes, elsewhere. In computing, MS DOS six 176 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:23.320 point two to two is released. That will be the 177 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:26.919 final version of m STOs NT three five we had 178 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:28.720 three one last year and Hour up to three five 179 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.080 and Windows three one one Windows for work groups. Oh, 180 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:36.519 integration with networking, all that good stuff. IBM releases OS 181 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.840 two WARP, which will be the last version of OS two. 182 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.679 Intel announces a sixty four bit processor called Itanium. Yeah, 183 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:49.240 we'll eventually known it as Titanium. And over on the 184 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.440 risk side, Acorn out of the UK releases a risk 185 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.080 PC using arm v three and both people who bought 186 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.600 it loved it. And on the storage side, sand disk 187 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:03.600 release is the format come back flash, which generally is 188 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.639 flash memory, although there are miniature heart drives made in 189 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.960 that form factor as well. And Iomega releases the zip disc. 190 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.799 Oh god, yes, bringing me back here. I had several of. 191 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.600 Them ninety megs Man ninety megs and a little camera 192 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:25.240 company called Sony releases a video game console called PlayStation. Yeah, 193 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:26.440 that's nineteen ninety four. 194 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:29.120 I got one, well you forgot I got one Netscape 195 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.480 Navigator Escape. 196 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.519 Wow than Escape Navigator is not out yet. There's still 197 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:35.679 mosaic at this point. It'll be next year. 198 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:37.759 Okay, So I was oh it says it says one. 199 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:39.279 Oh was released in ninety four. 200 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.559 I think it was point oh nine. 201 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.960 And then Yahoo was founded, and you forgot a good album, 202 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.559 the Downward Spiral, Oh boy, okay, and also music for 203 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:55.519 the Jilted generation Prodigy fantastic one. You forgot a fantastic film, 204 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:58.639 pulp fiction. Okay, I forget that. Oh boy, Oh he's 205 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:04.120 forgot a great show. The one called Friends appeared that Oh. 206 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.039 Yeah, I said friends blood friends. Oh you did, okay, 207 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:09.440 I didn't hear friends, Yeah, I called that out. Let 208 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.200 me think anything else, anything else. I want to make 209 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:18.159 sure we got yacht one Station Doomed two, Warcraft Orcs 210 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.600 and Humans is released in Final Fantasy. 211 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.559 There was a website that came online in nineteen ninety four. 212 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.879 Maybe you've heard of it. It was called Carling Gary's VB homepage. 213 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.039 I visited that page, yeah. 214 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.360 Nineteen ninety four. It was one of the first websites 215 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:38.440 that was, you know, for that kind of thing, and 216 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:41.639 it was definitely the first website for Visual Basic. The 217 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:46.360 only other things were Microsoft's MSDN website, which had, you know, 218 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:48.960 the stuff that you would expect them to have, but 219 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.120 this was the first Visual Basic website and it just 220 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.759 took off like crazy. Yeah, I guess that's it. Yeah, 221 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.919 all right, so let's do Better know framework roll it awesome? 222 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:09.879 All right? 223 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:10.440 What we got? 224 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:14.039 So we're talking about squad with Brady today for sure, 225 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.879 and Jeff Fritz and I did an episode on Coded 226 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:21.440 with AI episode eighteen where he went through and did 227 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.159 a demo of squad. Nice. So if you want to 228 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279 see that, that's the better know framework for this for 229 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:30.159 the show, and it'll be on the website. 230 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:30.519 Cool. 231 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:32.919 Yeah, it's this is how I fell in love with 232 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:34.840 it and since I've been using it. We'll talk about 233 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:38.000 that with Brady in a minute. So who's talking to us? 234 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.480 Richard Harby comment off the show nineteen eighty nine. The 235 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.039 one we did with Ben de Tree talking about the 236 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.720 roll of AI and secure software got a lot of 237 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.840 comments on the show and our friend Codepeuter himself, Richard 238 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.879 Rukima said. Richard said it building with AI is not 239 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:55.879 about writing code. The skill is context management. My approach 240 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.159 is to give AI the context of the application, but 241 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.440 then focus its coding effort in the architecture of the design. Yeah, 242 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.120 the architecture does not minimized change blast within the layers 243 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:08.120 of the architecture, and it's also a container that the 244 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.440 AI can be limited to. This happens the I agents 245 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.240 need to work together to get multiple changes done at 246 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:17.639 the same time or within dependencies that normal work already has. 247 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:21.039 But that's a workflow. Context sounds like managing a team, 248 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.960 doesn't it. Where is that product managing a squad? 249 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.559 Anyway, as funny as. 250 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:32.600 I thought, it was particularly relevant Continuing today's subject, Yeah, 251 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.600 Richard Courts regular on the show. I'm pretty sure he 252 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.240 has a copy of music Code By. But if you'd 253 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:38.679 like a copy of music Code Buy, I write a 254 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.240 comment on the website at don Arocks dot com or 255 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:42.919 on the facebooks. We publish every show there and even 256 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.360 comment there in a read in the show, we'll send 257 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.559 you copy music Go buy, and. 258 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:47.879 Music to code By is still very popular. You can 259 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.600 get it at music too Coode by dot Net. It's 260 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:54.919 twenty two tracks, twenty five minutes long, designed to keep 261 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.000 you in a state of flow while you're writing code 262 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.120 and uh Yeah, let's introduced Brady Gaster based near Seattle. 263 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.039 Brady aspires to make it easy for dot net developers 264 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:09.320 to party in the cloud as the product manager behind 265 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:14.519 Visual Studios, Azure, Write, Click, Publish, and Connected services features. 266 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.440 He also helps with Aspire tooling support in Visual Studio 267 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.360 and Visual Studio Code. And we're not designing new tooling 268 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.639 features or writing things like you know, squad or building 269 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.840 demos with teammates, He's trail running five k's, parenting two teens, 270 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.960 mixing new one seventy four bpm drum and bass sets, 271 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.120 or producing his own electronic music. 272 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.559 Welcome back, Brady, Thanks Ally, how's going? I should probably 273 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.799 send you my new job description. I've moved on from 274 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.919 the VS and dot net crew, who I love Dearly, 275 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.559 my favorite framework of all time, and I'm over in 276 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:57.879 Ryan Fraser's organization and the app modernization team, specifically the 277 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.080 GitHub co pilot modernization product Great working on things like 278 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.320 the uh working closely with the dottnet team on their 279 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.440 update tool, as well as some stuff on the Java 280 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.240 side and vs code, and then we have this cool 281 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.799 modernized CLI that Timothy J and Hunter shot off at 282 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.039 Ignite that we've been bringing. 283 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.840 Forward and we'll be doing more stuff with over the 284 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:22.320 next few months. That's exciting. 285 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.559 So yeah, I've been using gi hub Copilot Cli to 286 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:31.679 do stuff non code related, you know, diagnosing problems with 287 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.919 drivers that won't load, cleaning up Azure resources that I 288 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:41.960 haven't used in a while, things like that. It's it's 289 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:46.559 like AI for PowerShell. Really, it's really Yeah, it's amazing. 290 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:49.600 So let's talk squad. 291 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.519 Sure. 292 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:53.279 Yeah, first of all, I thought you might have been 293 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:55.559 working on this for years, but it was just like 294 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.200 a couple of months or something, right. 295 00:16:58.679 --> 00:16:59.679 Not even that, dude. 296 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.720 Uh So, I have been tinkering with like various agentic 297 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.920 tools and frameworks all last year, specifically around the spire, 298 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:11.599 you know, because that was where I was coming from the. 299 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.200 Description you just read in theory it is your job. 300 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:16.039 Yeah, yeah, in theories job. 301 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.160 Uh So what I was trying to do last year 302 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.960 was to figure out uh yeah, because I work on 303 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.920 the apps an agents team in Korea, so uh yeah, 304 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.119 you agents are kind of important to us. So all 305 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.559 last year I was trying to spin up essentially your 306 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.960 like file new project with a prompt for Aspire devs, 307 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:35.279 you know, to kind of say like I want to 308 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.119 build a Kintoso University or whatever, and like it boof 309 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.400 like build your thing. And we tried a bunch of 310 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.759 experiments with it, and you know, the tech was evolving 311 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.480 a bit. There was a lot of different agentic frameworks 312 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.400 out there, and you know, there were a different states 313 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.200 of maturity. I think we tried five six different ways, 314 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.599 and at the end of the year, like the Microsoft 315 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.039 Agent framework took off and started using that and got 316 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.200 got a lot further. But earlier in the year, when 317 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.039 I moved over to the App Organization team where we're 318 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:03.359 looking at, you know, some of the systems and whatever, 319 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.039 actually was talking to some younger pms inside of core 320 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:12.599 A I who were you know, like, you know, three 321 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.519 of us were consultants for a while. We've worked with 322 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.799 you know, the tech in the industry, and you know, 323 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.799 then we went on and did other things. But a 324 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.319 lot of folks are new in career and they walk 325 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:24.440 up and they're like in the App service team, it's like, hey, 326 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.960 what what do we do here. You know, I have 327 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.279 a product idea. Who should I talk to? You know, 328 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:30.839 I thought it would be cool to spin up a 329 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.519 couple of agents, you know, each representing you know, an 330 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.400 area of the of the of the product line, and say, like, 331 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.640 you represent app servers, you represent container apps, you represent this, 332 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.960 you represent that. Go search the internet, go look at 333 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.759 these products, get hubs and go look at their Reddit 334 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:49.200 posts and look at their blogs and kind of assess 335 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.200 what their products do. And build an agent, you know, 336 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.759 based on what you think. You know, somebody in that 337 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.359 you know, a PM and that product would would say 338 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.960 their products, you know, issues and opportunities are and when ill. 339 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.319 And it wrote pretty good instructions on its own. You know, 340 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.079 well that was pretty cool. So we'll do that for 341 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.440 every product in core AI. So about twenty about twenty 342 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:09.799 minutes later, I had two hundred markdown files, you know, 343 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.319 and I was like, this is neat, you know, this 344 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:14.880 is kind of cool, right, So I asked a few 345 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.359 people I'm trying to do some stuff with with get 346 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.039 ub co pilot cli that we can to make it 347 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.319 spin up multiple agents. I think it was just pret 348 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.039 fleet pre squad for all of it, you know, and 349 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.160 this it was like middle of January, and you know, 350 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.920 it just wasn't It didn't feel right like something. It 351 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:33.599 didn't look the way I'd seen it look on other 352 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.480 people's screens. And I was like, this is this is? 353 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.559 It looks like it's just Copilot talking to me. It 354 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.599 doesn't seem like it's multiple agents. So I'm paying the 355 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.880 copilot cli kind of teams thread that we have, and 356 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.720 I said, could somebody's shown me a video like how 357 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.599 to do this multi agency thing? And of course some 358 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.319 person way smarter than me dropped in a prompt and 359 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:54.440 the prompt said, you know, fan out and do blah 360 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.720 blah blah, and I ran the prompt and all of 361 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.440 a sudden, I saw those agents appearing. So then I said, oh, okay. 362 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.960 Like, is that the magic word? Fan out? 363 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.799 That was the magic I think it kind of is 364 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.200 one of those magic words in Squad. It's definitely a 365 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.880 magic word. I think Carl's probably figured that out, especially 366 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:10.759 have that in our docks pretty pretty thoroughly. 367 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.279 And here I thought the magic word was please. 368 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.559 Please, so we uh, you know, I did some experimentation 369 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.960 with it, and I remember it kind of got working 370 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.079 on my desktop and I asked it a question, like, 371 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:24.799 you're this product, you're that product, whatever, what should we 372 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:25.839 do in twenty twenty six? 373 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:27.559 And it wrote a pretty good report. 374 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:27.799 You know. 375 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.000 The report wasn't groundbreaking. You know, if you were to 376 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:33.319 scour a GitHub for a couple of days on all 377 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:35.319 these products, you would figure out what it. 378 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:35.960 Said, you know. 379 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.319 But I got pretty enamored with it. I think this 380 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.799 is kind of cool. And timing's weird. Timing is a 381 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.160 strange thing. So I was sitting here at my desk 382 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.119 in the Purple Room and I got up from that 383 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:51.519 experiment when did my daily run and was raining that day, 384 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.240 so I didn't go outside. I did it on the treadmill, 385 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.119 and I watched a show on molt book and I 386 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.680 started thinking, what if I put these two ideas is together? 387 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:01.400 Right, you know? 388 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.960 And you know, I'm paying an executive friend of ours, 389 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.559 and I said, hey, I had this thought, you know, 390 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.119 and I put these agents together, and I asked them 391 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.759 a question, and they kind of went off and talked 392 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:14.839 about it, and they came back with a paper, and 393 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.759 that executive said, do it for these products. 394 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:16.960 Now. 395 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.599 I was like, maybe I have something, you know, So 396 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.279 I did it for those products. Send it over feedback 397 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:22.880 was keep going. 398 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.240 And if they're just writing exploring and writing documentation, right, 399 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:28.839 they're not writing code or anything. 400 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.279 Really, what they were doing is they were these agents 401 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.680