Speaker 1: So it turns out the majority of Christians really do
Speaker 1: believe the Internet is for pawn. It's all about the
Speaker 1: best thing since Playboy to hit the shelves and the
Speaker 1: same thing as the color of mayonnaise to hit the bedsheets.
Speaker 1: Shall we say? The church has decided that Paul is
Speaker 1: nothing but porn pawn as we go around and we
Speaker 1: remember that the Internet is actually for pawn, so they
Speaker 1: decided to upset the church by regarding the pawn on
Speaker 1: the Internet as well. Just that this is one of
Speaker 1: the strangest articles I think I've read, because it's one
Speaker 1: of the first surveys to actually acknowledge that, well, people
Speaker 1: like me and AJ actually quite enjoy porn. Women forty
Speaker 1: percent of all church going women admit to enjoying porn,
Speaker 1: and over seventy percent of men are doing exactly the same.
Speaker 1: So why is the church so upset? Because it seems
Speaker 1: that the pawn is the encryption Nite to the church
Speaker 1: and is keeping them as isolated as you can. And
Speaker 1: the church seems to think this is some kind of
Speaker 1: a problem. However, Faith Buire by Trey Agyns Phillips on
Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of October twenty twenty four explain that
Speaker 1: this probably isn't what you think it is.
Speaker 2: I find this article amusing more for the language used
Speaker 2: than the actual substance of the story. They use terms
Speaker 2: like the struggle of Christians with their porn habit?
Speaker 1: And is this there's a pornography watching none with a
Speaker 1: porn habit?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: You know it's a put on.
Speaker 2: It's a problem. You know, well, how else is she
Speaker 2: going to, you know, get entertainment given who she's married to? Anyway,
Speaker 2: the struggle of Christians with their porn habit as if
Speaker 2: there's a struggle with porn anyway, it just doesn't make
Speaker 2: much sense. It's the characterization of it. And like you
Speaker 2: were saying, why is it an issue at all? Seventy
Speaker 2: five percent of Christian men and forty percent of Christian
Speaker 2: women view porn at least occasionally too funny couch in
Speaker 2: terms of who is helping you with your struggle with porn,
Speaker 2: and they say no one. Yeah, I give porn a
Speaker 2: big deal. I would say, what struggle? And when? Then
Speaker 2: the old trope of being alone is where the enemy is?
Speaker 2: So if you're alone watching porn, that that's where the
Speaker 2: enemy is. And nobody's watching out for you. What a load, man,
Speaker 2: that's just awful.
Speaker 3: You I you know, as soon as I've started within
Speaker 3: the auticle, I was told that it was so biased
Speaker 3: and it was by faith Wire, so you know, it's
Speaker 3: a Questian website and you can tell that the writer
Speaker 3: was religion and that the study release is actually just
Speaker 3: a survey done by a company called Barna Group, and
Speaker 3: this is an organization that tracks the role of faith
Speaker 3: in America. They've partnered with another organization and they interview
Speaker 3: and research if you can even call it that, with
Speaker 3: a focus on Protestant Christian denominations and Catholic churches. It's
Speaker 3: you can't get seriously.
Speaker 1: This article must be satire, pure desire ministries. Serious, you
Speaker 1: can't be serious pure desire ministries. I mean really, I.
Speaker 3: Have to look them up because I was like, that
Speaker 3: cannot be a real thing. But yeah, it's it's actually
Speaker 3: a recovery group and on their website they claim that
Speaker 3: lives and relationships are being destroyed by the effects of
Speaker 3: on wanted sexual behavior and be to aal trauma and
Speaker 3: they hope no.
Speaker 1: Such yeah, the sex addiction. Yes, no such thing as
Speaker 1: porn addiction. It doesn't exist. Now, all these sex therapists
Speaker 1: that come after me, please come after me being somebody
Speaker 1: who enjoys sex, being a sex positive individual, and somebody
Speaker 1: who is not ashamed to say, I watch pornography and
Speaker 1: my wife goes, that's great, honey, And I go to
Speaker 1: my wife. Whatever pornography you decide to indulge in, that's
Speaker 1: great too, because guess what, we have a healthy relationship
Speaker 1: with real It's not going to drive a wedge between
Speaker 1: my wife and I. Pornography is not something that is
Speaker 1: designed to get in the way of your relationship. We
Speaker 1: don't have less sex because we both watch pornography or
Speaker 1: both indulge or engagement pornography. Kiss what, we still have
Speaker 1: lots of sex. We still enjoy each other's company. And
Speaker 1: if sex is falling out of the window because you
Speaker 1: have decided that pornography is taking over, maybe you have
Speaker 1: a bigger problem that you may not find your spouse
Speaker 1: or partner attractive anymore. It's not the man you sue
Speaker 1: Pfiser because you couldn't get a hard on around his
Speaker 1: wife after you took viagra. Sorry, mate, that ain't phisers
Speaker 1: fault that your wife is no longer somebody you lust after.
Speaker 2: You know, the struggle porn. You know, they stated that
Speaker 2: they were not free from I'm saying free from what inhibitions?
Speaker 2: Sexual repression?
Speaker 1: Free as in liberty, as in freedom, kind of free.
Speaker 2: It's ironic. It is so ironic, it's amusing, you know,
Speaker 2: like I, you know, I may be just a very
Speaker 2: strange person, but I laughed through a lot of us.
Speaker 2: You know, the idea that porn is demonic, demonic, porn
Speaker 2: is demonic, then why.
Speaker 1: Are they having you know, you get dressed up, you
Speaker 1: put a couple of horns on, and then your hoy that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to keep shame. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: kick shame anybody for that. But you know, but if
Speaker 2: the porn is demonic, but so many people use it,
Speaker 2: I can see a way we can destroy all religion.
Speaker 2: And that is just produced more porn. Right, So you know, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, just an idea, just a thought. It's hard
Speaker 2: for pastors to deal with it because they use it themselves,
Speaker 2: and so that is truly tew and so they can't
Speaker 2: pick on their congregation if the congregation knows that they're
Speaker 2: being that hypocritical.
Speaker 3: But you're not alone. You're not alone in that sentiment
Speaker 3: of laughing, because you know, I have to laugh a
Speaker 3: little at the whole idea of biblical sexual ethic, because
Speaker 3: the Bible is pretty much an ancient sex manual, right,
Speaker 3: It's like they're.
Speaker 2: A disturbing one at that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are just so many passages.
Speaker 1: Our Bible to replace in not the onion.
Speaker 3: But I mean, you see so many different passages about
Speaker 3: how and with whom you're allowed to have sex with
Speaker 3: in the Bible itself. And you know, this whole anti
Speaker 3: pornography idea likely comes from some of the verses that
Speaker 3: said that anyone who looks at a woman lost fully
Speaker 3: has already committed adultery with her.
Speaker 1: In there's question for the pair, what is the definition
Speaker 1: of pornography?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean to me, I don't. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's like the hardcore porn that people think of. Like
Speaker 3: pornography can be just like soft porn, like you know,
Speaker 3: sexy pictures. It can be anything.
Speaker 2: They might even show your petticoats. You know, it clows
Speaker 2: up a little bit, shock shocker. In themes, pornography is
Speaker 2: anything that can be that it has is sexually stimulating
Speaker 2: to to either watch or view. I guess with the
Speaker 2: A and is done is made with the intent of
Speaker 2: of doing so. But you know, I don't know what
Speaker 2: the dictionary definition is, but that seems to be I
Speaker 2: don't know. Hugh Heffner might have his own definitely.
Speaker 1: Know it's six for under now, yeah, under a lot
Speaker 1: of things, but you know he's six for.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say sex for other other things too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think that sex and pornography are the enemy here,
Speaker 3: and they're not the cause of the harm. It's like
Speaker 3: it's the purity culture mentality that is causing harm to people.
Speaker 3: Like I said, toxic idea that you must stay pure
Speaker 3: according to God's rules and be saved, and that your
Speaker 3: body is not your own anymore, you know it it's
Speaker 3: the property of God, like your body is his body.
Speaker 3: And this brings shame and people just just feel that way,
Speaker 3: and you know, it makes them hide their behavior more.
Speaker 3: It makes them feel that no matter what they do,
Speaker 3: unless it's like vanilla missionary position sex then and with
Speaker 3: a person of the opposite sex.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know the thing is that I don't
Speaker 2: understand why they're fighting this battle, because they'll lose it
Speaker 2: because they were fighting the nature of sexually dimorphic beings.
Speaker 1: Human sexually, there has to be some form of sexual reproduction.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that. I don't mean that in like,
Speaker 1: you know, just you know, fornication. You have to have
Speaker 1: sexual reproduction. Human do not reproduce asexually. It's just not
Speaker 1: This's just not I was.
Speaker 2: I was saying that as a nod to our non
Speaker 2: human listeners, you know.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I would say that some of the most interesting
Speaker 1: are you know lovers, you know, you know, giant Floridian
Speaker 1: East Eastern Atlantic lovers. They are really quite good when
Speaker 1: they go. They I mean they were. They have been
Speaker 1: known to engage in homosexuality and in all in multiple
Speaker 1: sex acts at the same time, so you will actually
Speaker 1: see like three or four of the lovers stacked on
Speaker 1: top of each other, as.
Speaker 2: You know, stack sex. I mean, this is so interesting actually,
Speaker 2: But while the obsession was sex in religion, every adult
Speaker 2: and most teens have sex, except maybe the ace folks,
Speaker 2: and some of them do too, so just not as often.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's just ridiculous because it's such an
Speaker 2: integral part of your personality and your life. It's not
Speaker 2: the whole part, but it is a part of you.
Speaker 2: So why are you trying to bottle it up and
Speaker 2: store it in the back cabinet and put a lock
Speaker 2: on it? That just makes it go bad, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like, why would you want it to rot
Speaker 2: inside jam stuff?
Speaker 1: So I'm a woman and I was quite by this
Speaker 1: article actually accepting that, you know, we mean, consume pornography.
Speaker 1: What would your take on that, ag.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is yeah, you're you know. I thought that
Speaker 3: it was interesting because the article said that forty percent,
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, of Christian women admitted to using porn
Speaker 3: to some degree, and the men's percentage was much higher
Speaker 3: as seventy five percent, which is actually about the same
Speaker 3: percentage of non Christian women that use porn. So outside
Speaker 3: of Christianity, where in Christianity is forty percent, outside Christianity
Speaker 3: seventy five percent, a lot of women use porn, you know.
Speaker 3: So I found that pretty interesting. It's something that secular,
Speaker 3: non religious people find quite common, quite normally, you know. Personally,
Speaker 3: for myself, it took me quite a few years from
Speaker 3: the point where I call myself ideas to the point
Speaker 3: where I realized that I had adopted so many Christian viewpoints,
Speaker 3: including a lot of the beauty culture ideals. And it
Speaker 3: took time for me to realize that people shouldn't be
Speaker 3: ashamed of sex in general. And this includes using pornography
Speaker 3: to help with the succesfe And like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: you've got to keep in mind that porn doesn't always
Speaker 3: mean the extreme hardcore porn. It can be any type
Speaker 3: of sexual material like soft porn, sexy pictures of their
Speaker 3: own partners.
Speaker 2: You know, we.
Speaker 1: Consentml being pornography carefully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I think these pastors need to
Speaker 2: go to a munch or to get invited to a
Speaker 2: sex party, enjoy themselves and find out what all the
Speaker 2: fuss is about, or just back off and leave your
Speaker 2: parishioners to their own devices. There are some really cool
Speaker 2: devices on the internet anyway. But you know, I just
Speaker 2: don't see what the problem is. You know, this is
Speaker 2: a natural function and all the rest of it is
Speaker 2: a natural function. You know, just keep your keep all
Speaker 2: that crap to yourself, you know, don't bother other people
Speaker 2: with it, you know, and have some fun, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, play with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah it is, But but religion has made sex such
Speaker 3: an awful thing, like in Catholic faith, for example, self pressure,
Speaker 3: porn or believed to defile the sanctity of marriage, because
Speaker 3: marriage is meant to be meet in a man and
Speaker 3: a woman. That's what the Bible sells. Well, I guess
Speaker 3: a man, a woman, and God.
Speaker 2: Maybe, so he's the third and third man out. And
Speaker 2: I see, now we're getting into some interesting stuff. If
Speaker 2: there's three of them, it's a three buyer.
Speaker 1: So anyway, here's a question that the race is interested.
Speaker 1: So what if a married couple make pornography and during
Speaker 1: that made me the pornography conception occurs. Is that acceptable?
Speaker 3: No, it's not, because I think they believe, as I said,
Speaker 3: that the body belongs to Jesus, to God. So basically
Speaker 3: the only motive for having sex is for reproduction. I guess,
Speaker 3: because you know, God always tells the man the Bible
Speaker 3: to multiply and MULTIPLI it so go.
Speaker 1: Forth and multiplies. Spread your seeds inside, only spread your
Speaker 1: seat outside. Is no.
Speaker 3: But that whole idea, yeah, that whole idea of the
Speaker 3: embodied into God is just extremely harmful to me because
Speaker 3: it takes away your marry autonomy. I imagine that this
Speaker 3: is why so many twists and church leaders have such
Speaker 3: a big issue with you know, the sexual behavior behavior.
Speaker 3: It's like they are the ones committing analysts horrible sexual
Speaker 3: clients against children even it's just absolutely despicable.
Speaker 2: The attempt to demonize having fun with fantasy really does
Speaker 2: cause damage to people. What we really need is less
Speaker 2: religious oppression of.
Speaker 1: For everybody.
Speaker 2: Sex education and acceptance of sex is natural to all
Speaker 2: species that use it, you know, just we have to
Speaker 2: educate people so that they know that it's okay, that
Speaker 2: what you're feeling and doing is not bad. It's not okay.
Speaker 2: It might not be necessary necessarily to do anything with,
Speaker 2: but it sure is fun. And why deny yourself on sex.
Speaker 2: Sex is more than just reproduction, it's it's another But
Speaker 2: actually that's another day's topic, I guess. So, yeah, secular sexuality.
Speaker 2: I really missed secular sex.
Speaker 1: The archives. You can just watch me on secular sexuality
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Ye know, I completely agree with you that openly discussing sexuality,
Speaker 3: especially with when young adults with you know, like teenagers,
Speaker 3: like we are not saying that they have to go
Speaker 3: and have sex. You just have to have those discussions
Speaker 3: with them in order to prepare them for yeah, for
Speaker 3: when they're ready to write and.
Speaker 1: Them that going to say, I'm going to say some things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sex will happen whether you talk about or not. Pornography
Speaker 1: will be consumed whether you ban it or not. Pornography
Speaker 1: will be produced, whether it's forbidden or a boat or not.
Speaker 1: And sex and pornography will be used in exactly the
Speaker 1: same amount regardless of whether you legalize it, regulate it,
Speaker 1: demonize it, or whatever. Because guess what, people were making
Speaker 1: pornography in a warning England. People were making pornography in
Speaker 1: Tudor England, and people were making pornography in medieval England, so.
Speaker 2: A long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other thing that comes with it is you then
Speaker 1: get this purity culture of nonsense of where nudity itself
Speaker 1: becomes some kind of a no no. Where you have
Speaker 1: seen throughout history of you know, women being required to
Speaker 1: cover up and all this, that and the other, and
Speaker 1: protests happening in Iran where a woman who was complaining
Speaker 1: about sexual harassment goes off and was arrested as a result.
Speaker 1: That's because I don't know what it is is skin.
Speaker 1: We've all gone in a skin. What does it really
Speaker 1: matter how much or how little skin you're showing off? Yes,
Speaker 1: I can understand for hygiene reasons. You may not want to,
Speaker 1: you know, see where someone's you know, waste material comes out.
Speaker 1: I can understand that here's the real question. Who decided
Speaker 1: that from here to here and my shoulders being covered
Speaker 1: or uncovered was acceptable? And who said that this part
Speaker 1: of my arm had to be covered or uncovered? Who
Speaker 1: makes these rules? Who comes up with this nonsense and
Speaker 1: decide to enforce it all? Because I want to show.
Speaker 2: It was designers. It wasn't the fashion designers, and.
Speaker 1: You know Jean Paul Gautier and I like that.
Speaker 2: They were all about more skin.
Speaker 1: Actually, Johnny Vasari, it was definitely about more scheme.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 3: Does it does make me wonder now, like were they
Speaker 3: that even that modesty idea came from? Because modesty in
Speaker 3: the Bible is not really described, but it doesn't really say, hey,
Speaker 3: you can't show this part as this part or this part.
Speaker 3: It's just you know, just says modesty. So like who
Speaker 3: came up with it?
Speaker 2: There was some guy in the patriarchy who thought that
Speaker 2: it was, you know, better to control what women wore.
Speaker 2: You ever noticed that it never was a real question
Speaker 2: about men except for one small area, but with women
Speaker 2: it went all the way down to the ankles at
Speaker 2: one point, lace collars from here down to the ankles,
Speaker 2: you know. And uh, and then you have burkas too
Speaker 2: in another But you know, but a full body covering
Speaker 2: for women and men are running out around with their
Speaker 2: shirts off, you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, as the protests in New York said, if you
Speaker 1: don't consider me to be a woman and it is
Speaker 1: fine for a man to wander around with no top on,
Speaker 1: please take a look at my breasts.
Speaker 2: But do you know what.
Speaker 3: It comes down to. It all goes back to dispurity mentality, okay,
Speaker 3: and it goes back to putting women as the responsible
Speaker 3: ones for not tempting men. So I think they'll just
Speaker 3: want woman to cover up so that the men are
Speaker 3: not tempted.