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<v Speaker 1>So it turns out the majority of Christians really do

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<v Speaker 1>believe the Internet is for pawn. It's all about the

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<v Speaker 1>best thing since Playboy to hit the shelves and the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing as the color of mayonnaise to hit the bedsheets.

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<v Speaker 1>Shall we say? The church has decided that Paul is

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<v Speaker 1>nothing but porn pawn as we go around and we

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<v Speaker 1>remember that the Internet is actually for pawn, so they

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<v Speaker 1>decided to upset the church by regarding the pawn on

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<v Speaker 1>the Internet as well. Just that this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>the strangest articles I think I've read, because it's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the first surveys to actually acknowledge that, well, people

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<v Speaker 1>like me and AJ actually quite enjoy porn. Women forty

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<v Speaker 1>percent of all church going women admit to enjoying porn,

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<v Speaker 1>and over seventy percent of men are doing exactly the same.

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<v Speaker 1>So why is the church so upset? Because it seems

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<v Speaker 1>that the pawn is the encryption Nite to the church

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<v Speaker 1>and is keeping them as isolated as you can. And

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<v Speaker 1>the church seems to think this is some kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a problem. However, Faith Buire by Trey Agyns Phillips on

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty fourth of October twenty twenty four explain that

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<v Speaker 1>this probably isn't what you think it is.

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<v Speaker 2>I find this article amusing more for the language used

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<v Speaker 2>than the actual substance of the story. They use terms

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<v Speaker 2>like the struggle of Christians with their porn habit?

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<v Speaker 1>And is this there's a pornography watching none with a

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<v Speaker 1>porn habit?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>You know it's a put on.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a problem. You know, well, how else is she

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<v Speaker 2>going to, you know, get entertainment given who she's married to? Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>the struggle of Christians with their porn habit as if

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<v Speaker 2>there's a struggle with porn anyway, it just doesn't make

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<v Speaker 2>much sense. It's the characterization of it. And like you

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<v Speaker 2>were saying, why is it an issue at all? Seventy

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of Christian men and forty percent of Christian

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<v Speaker 2>women view porn at least occasionally too funny couch in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of who is helping you with your struggle with porn,

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<v Speaker 2>and they say no one. Yeah, I give porn a

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<v Speaker 2>big deal. I would say, what struggle? And when? Then

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<v Speaker 2>the old trope of being alone is where the enemy is?

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<v Speaker 2>So if you're alone watching porn, that that's where the

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<v Speaker 2>enemy is. And nobody's watching out for you. What a load, man,

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<v Speaker 2>that's just awful.

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<v Speaker 3>You I you know, as soon as I've started within

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<v Speaker 3>the auticle, I was told that it was so biased

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<v Speaker 3>and it was by faith Wire, so you know, it's

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<v Speaker 3>a Questian website and you can tell that the writer

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<v Speaker 3>was religion and that the study release is actually just

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<v Speaker 3>a survey done by a company called Barna Group, and

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<v Speaker 3>this is an organization that tracks the role of faith

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<v Speaker 3>in America. They've partnered with another organization and they interview

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<v Speaker 3>and research if you can even call it that, with

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<v Speaker 3>a focus on Protestant Christian denominations and Catholic churches. It's

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<v Speaker 3>you can't get seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>This article must be satire, pure desire ministries. Serious, you

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<v Speaker 1>can't be serious pure desire ministries. I mean really, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Have to look them up because I was like, that

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<v Speaker 3>cannot be a real thing. But yeah, it's it's actually

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<v Speaker 3>a recovery group and on their website they claim that

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<v Speaker 3>lives and relationships are being destroyed by the effects of

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<v Speaker 3>on wanted sexual behavior and be to aal trauma and

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<v Speaker 3>they hope no.

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<v Speaker 1>Such yeah, the sex addiction. Yes, no such thing as

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<v Speaker 1>porn addiction. It doesn't exist. Now, all these sex therapists

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<v Speaker 1>that come after me, please come after me being somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who enjoys sex, being a sex positive individual, and somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who is not ashamed to say, I watch pornography and

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<v Speaker 1>my wife goes, that's great, honey, And I go to

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<v Speaker 1>my wife. Whatever pornography you decide to indulge in, that's

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<v Speaker 1>great too, because guess what, we have a healthy relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with real It's not going to drive a wedge between

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<v Speaker 1>my wife and I. Pornography is not something that is

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<v Speaker 1>designed to get in the way of your relationship. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't have less sex because we both watch pornography or

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<v Speaker 1>both indulge or engagement pornography. Kiss what, we still have

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<v Speaker 1>lots of sex. We still enjoy each other's company. And

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<v Speaker 1>if sex is falling out of the window because you

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<v Speaker 1>have decided that pornography is taking over, maybe you have

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<v Speaker 1>a bigger problem that you may not find your spouse

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<v Speaker 1>or partner attractive anymore. It's not the man you sue

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<v Speaker 1>Pfiser because you couldn't get a hard on around his

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<v Speaker 1>wife after you took viagra. Sorry, mate, that ain't phisers

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<v Speaker 1>fault that your wife is no longer somebody you lust after.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the struggle porn. You know, they stated that

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<v Speaker 2>they were not free from I'm saying free from what inhibitions?

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<v Speaker 2>Sexual repression?

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<v Speaker 1>Free as in liberty, as in freedom, kind of free.

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<v Speaker 2>It's ironic. It is so ironic, it's amusing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I, you know, I may be just a very

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<v Speaker 2>strange person, but I laughed through a lot of us.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the idea that porn is demonic, demonic, porn

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<v Speaker 2>is demonic, then why.

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<v Speaker 1>Are they having you know, you get dressed up, you

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<v Speaker 1>put a couple of horns on, and then your hoy that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to keep shame. I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>kick shame anybody for that. But you know, but if

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<v Speaker 2>the porn is demonic, but so many people use it,

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<v Speaker 2>I can see a way we can destroy all religion.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is just produced more porn. Right, So you know, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just an idea, just a thought. It's hard

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<v Speaker 2>for pastors to deal with it because they use it themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that is truly tew and so they can't

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<v Speaker 2>pick on their congregation if the congregation knows that they're

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<v Speaker 2>being that hypocritical.

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<v Speaker 3>But you're not alone. You're not alone in that sentiment

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<v Speaker 3>of laughing, because you know, I have to laugh a

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<v Speaker 3>little at the whole idea of biblical sexual ethic, because

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<v Speaker 3>the Bible is pretty much an ancient sex manual, right,

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<v Speaker 3>It's like they're.

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<v Speaker 2>A disturbing one at that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there are just so many passages.

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<v Speaker 1>Our Bible to replace in not the onion.

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<v Speaker 3>But I mean, you see so many different passages about

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<v Speaker 3>how and with whom you're allowed to have sex with

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<v Speaker 3>in the Bible itself. And you know, this whole anti

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<v Speaker 3>pornography idea likely comes from some of the verses that

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<v Speaker 3>said that anyone who looks at a woman lost fully

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<v Speaker 3>has already committed adultery with her.

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<v Speaker 1>In there's question for the pair, what is the definition

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<v Speaker 1>of pornography?

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<v Speaker 2>What is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean to me, I don't. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>it's like the hardcore porn that people think of. Like

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<v Speaker 3>pornography can be just like soft porn, like you know,

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<v Speaker 3>sexy pictures. It can be anything.

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<v Speaker 2>They might even show your petticoats. You know, it clows

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<v Speaker 2>up a little bit, shock shocker. In themes, pornography is

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<v Speaker 2>anything that can be that it has is sexually stimulating

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<v Speaker 2>to to either watch or view. I guess with the

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<v Speaker 2>A and is done is made with the intent of

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<v Speaker 2>of doing so. But you know, I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>the dictionary definition is, but that seems to be I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. Hugh Heffner might have his own definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>Know it's six for under now, yeah, under a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of things, but you know he's six for.

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<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say sex for other other things too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think that sex and pornography are the enemy here,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're not the cause of the harm. It's like

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<v Speaker 3>it's the purity culture mentality that is causing harm to people.

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<v Speaker 3>Like I said, toxic idea that you must stay pure

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<v Speaker 3>according to God's rules and be saved, and that your

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<v Speaker 3>body is not your own anymore, you know it it's

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<v Speaker 3>the property of God, like your body is his body.

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<v Speaker 3>And this brings shame and people just just feel that way,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, it makes them hide their behavior more.

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<v Speaker 3>It makes them feel that no matter what they do,

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<v Speaker 3>unless it's like vanilla missionary position sex then and with

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<v Speaker 3>a person of the opposite sex.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, you know the thing is that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand why they're fighting this battle, because they'll lose it

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<v Speaker 2>because they were fighting the nature of sexually dimorphic beings.

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<v Speaker 1>Human sexually, there has to be some form of sexual reproduction.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't mean that. I don't mean that in like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just you know, fornication. You have to have

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<v Speaker 1>sexual reproduction. Human do not reproduce asexually. It's just not

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<v Speaker 1>This's just not I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was saying that as a nod to our non

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<v Speaker 2>human listeners, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, I would say that some of the most interesting

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<v Speaker 1>are you know lovers, you know, you know, giant Floridian

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<v Speaker 1>East Eastern Atlantic lovers. They are really quite good when

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<v Speaker 1>they go. They I mean they were. They have been

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<v Speaker 1>known to engage in homosexuality and in all in multiple

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<v Speaker 1>sex acts at the same time, so you will actually

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<v Speaker 1>see like three or four of the lovers stacked on

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<v Speaker 1>top of each other, as.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, stack sex. I mean, this is so interesting actually,

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<v Speaker 2>But while the obsession was sex in religion, every adult

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<v Speaker 2>and most teens have sex, except maybe the ace folks,

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<v Speaker 2>and some of them do too, so just not as often.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, it's just ridiculous because it's such an

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<v Speaker 2>integral part of your personality and your life. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>the whole part, but it is a part of you.

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<v Speaker 2>So why are you trying to bottle it up and

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<v Speaker 2>store it in the back cabinet and put a lock

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<v Speaker 2>on it? That just makes it go bad, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like, why would you want it to rot

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<v Speaker 2>inside jam stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm a woman and I was quite by this

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<v Speaker 1>article actually accepting that, you know, we mean, consume pornography.

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<v Speaker 1>What would your take on that, ag.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is yeah, you're you know. I thought that

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<v Speaker 3>it was interesting because the article said that forty percent,

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<v Speaker 3>as you mentioned, of Christian women admitted to using porn

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<v Speaker 3>to some degree, and the men's percentage was much higher

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<v Speaker 3>as seventy five percent, which is actually about the same

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<v Speaker 3>percentage of non Christian women that use porn. So outside

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<v Speaker 3>of Christianity, where in Christianity is forty percent, outside Christianity

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<v Speaker 3>seventy five percent, a lot of women use porn, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>So I found that pretty interesting. It's something that secular,

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<v Speaker 3>non religious people find quite common, quite normally, you know. Personally,

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<v Speaker 3>for myself, it took me quite a few years from

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<v Speaker 3>the point where I call myself ideas to the point

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<v Speaker 3>where I realized that I had adopted so many Christian viewpoints,

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<v Speaker 3>including a lot of the beauty culture ideals. And it

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<v Speaker 3>took time for me to realize that people shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 3>ashamed of sex in general. And this includes using pornography

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<v Speaker 3>to help with the succesfe And like I said earlier,

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<v Speaker 3>you've got to keep in mind that porn doesn't always

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<v Speaker 3>mean the extreme hardcore porn. It can be any type

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<v Speaker 3>of sexual material like soft porn, sexy pictures of their

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<v Speaker 3>own partners.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we.

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<v Speaker 1>Consentml being pornography carefully.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you know, I think these pastors need to

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<v Speaker 2>go to a munch or to get invited to a

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<v Speaker 2>sex party, enjoy themselves and find out what all the

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<v Speaker 2>fuss is about, or just back off and leave your

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<v Speaker 2>parishioners to their own devices. There are some really cool

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<v Speaker 2>devices on the internet anyway. But you know, I just

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<v Speaker 2>don't see what the problem is. You know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a natural function and all the rest of it is

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<v Speaker 2>a natural function. You know, just keep your keep all

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<v Speaker 2>that crap to yourself, you know, don't bother other people

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<v Speaker 2>with it, you know, and have some fun, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, play with it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah it is, But but religion has made sex such

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<v Speaker 3>an awful thing, like in Catholic faith, for example, self pressure,

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<v Speaker 3>porn or believed to defile the sanctity of marriage, because

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<v Speaker 3>marriage is meant to be meet in a man and

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<v Speaker 3>a woman. That's what the Bible sells. Well, I guess

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<v Speaker 3>a man, a woman, and God.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe, so he's the third and third man out. And

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<v Speaker 2>I see, now we're getting into some interesting stuff. If

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<v Speaker 2>there's three of them, it's a three buyer.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, here's a question that the race is interested.

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<v Speaker 1>So what if a married couple make pornography and during

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<v Speaker 1>that made me the pornography conception occurs. Is that acceptable?

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<v Speaker 3>No, it's not, because I think they believe, as I said,

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<v Speaker 3>that the body belongs to Jesus, to God. So basically

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<v Speaker 3>the only motive for having sex is for reproduction. I guess,

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<v Speaker 3>because you know, God always tells the man the Bible

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<v Speaker 3>to multiply and MULTIPLI it so go.

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<v Speaker 1>Forth and multiplies. Spread your seeds inside, only spread your

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<v Speaker 1>seat outside. Is no.

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<v Speaker 3>But that whole idea, yeah, that whole idea of the

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<v Speaker 3>embodied into God is just extremely harmful to me because

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<v Speaker 3>it takes away your marry autonomy. I imagine that this

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<v Speaker 3>is why so many twists and church leaders have such

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<v Speaker 3>a big issue with you know, the sexual behavior behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like they are the ones committing analysts horrible sexual

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<v Speaker 3>clients against children even it's just absolutely despicable.

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<v Speaker 2>The attempt to demonize having fun with fantasy really does

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<v Speaker 2>cause damage to people. What we really need is less

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<v Speaker 2>religious oppression of.

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<v Speaker 1>For everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Sex education and acceptance of sex is natural to all

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<v Speaker 2>species that use it, you know, just we have to

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<v Speaker 2>educate people so that they know that it's okay, that

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<v Speaker 2>what you're feeling and doing is not bad. It's not okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It might not be necessary necessarily to do anything with,

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<v Speaker 2>but it sure is fun. And why deny yourself on sex.

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<v Speaker 2>Sex is more than just reproduction, it's it's another But

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<v Speaker 2>actually that's another day's topic, I guess. So, yeah, secular sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>I really missed secular sex.

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<v Speaker 1>The archives. You can just watch me on secular sexuality

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<v Speaker 1>a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Ye know, I completely agree with you that openly discussing sexuality,

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<v Speaker 3>especially with when young adults with you know, like teenagers,

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<v Speaker 3>like we are not saying that they have to go

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<v Speaker 3>and have sex. You just have to have those discussions

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<v Speaker 3>with them in order to prepare them for yeah, for

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<v Speaker 3>when they're ready to write and.

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<v Speaker 1>Them that going to say, I'm going to say some things. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>sex will happen whether you talk about or not. Pornography

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<v Speaker 1>will be consumed whether you ban it or not. Pornography

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<v Speaker 1>will be produced, whether it's forbidden or a boat or not.

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<v Speaker 1>And sex and pornography will be used in exactly the

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<v Speaker 1>same amount regardless of whether you legalize it, regulate it,

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<v Speaker 1>demonize it, or whatever. Because guess what, people were making

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<v Speaker 1>pornography in a warning England. People were making pornography in

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<v Speaker 1>Tudor England, and people were making pornography in medieval England, so.

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<v Speaker 2>A long time ago. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing that comes with it is you then

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<v Speaker 1>get this purity culture of nonsense of where nudity itself

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<v Speaker 1>becomes some kind of a no no. Where you have

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<v Speaker 1>seen throughout history of you know, women being required to

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<v Speaker 1>cover up and all this, that and the other, and

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<v Speaker 1>protests happening in Iran where a woman who was complaining

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<v Speaker 1>about sexual harassment goes off and was arrested as a result.

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<v Speaker 1>That's because I don't know what it is is skin.

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<v Speaker 1>We've all gone in a skin. What does it really

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<v Speaker 1>matter how much or how little skin you're showing off? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I can understand for hygiene reasons. You may not want to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, see where someone's you know, waste material comes out.

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<v Speaker 1>I can understand that here's the real question. Who decided

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<v Speaker 1>that from here to here and my shoulders being covered

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<v Speaker 1>or uncovered was acceptable? And who said that this part

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<v Speaker 1>of my arm had to be covered or uncovered? Who

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<v Speaker 1>makes these rules? Who comes up with this nonsense and

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<v Speaker 1>decide to enforce it all? Because I want to show.

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<v Speaker 2>It was designers. It wasn't the fashion designers, and.

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<v Speaker 1>You know Jean Paul Gautier and I like that.

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<v Speaker 2>They were all about more skin.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, Johnny Vasari, it was definitely about more scheme.

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<v Speaker 2>He was.

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<v Speaker 1>It.

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<v Speaker 3>Does it does make me wonder now, like were they

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<v Speaker 3>that even that modesty idea came from? Because modesty in

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<v Speaker 3>the Bible is not really described, but it doesn't really say, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>you can't show this part as this part or this part.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just you know, just says modesty. So like who

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<v Speaker 3>came up with it?

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<v Speaker 2>There was some guy in the patriarchy who thought that

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<v Speaker 2>it was, you know, better to control what women wore.

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<v Speaker 2>You ever noticed that it never was a real question

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<v Speaker 2>about men except for one small area, but with women

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<v Speaker 2>it went all the way down to the ankles at

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<v Speaker 2>one point, lace collars from here down to the ankles,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And uh, and then you have burkas too

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<v Speaker 2>in another But you know, but a full body covering

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<v Speaker 2>for women and men are running out around with their

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<v Speaker 2>shirts off, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, as the protests in New York said, if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't consider me to be a woman and it is

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<v Speaker 1>fine for a man to wander around with no top on,

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<v Speaker 1>please take a look at my breasts.

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<v Speaker 2>But do you know what.

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<v Speaker 3>It comes down to. It all goes back to dispurity mentality, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and it goes back to putting women as the responsible

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<v Speaker 3>ones for not tempting men. So I think they'll just

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<v Speaker 3>want woman to cover up so that the men are

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<v Speaker 3>not tempted.