Speaker 1: The paranormal, UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries. As you're listening to Talking
Weird and Know from the Kevin Deep in the northwards
your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2: Good evening on my fellow weirdos and weirdo So welcome
to Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host,
Dean Bertram, and as always, I'm delighted to have you
here for the next hour or so. Whether you're watching
live on Thursday nights nine pm Central, or watching and
listening after that time only the YouTube or Facebook or
ex so one of the many podcast platforms at the
audio only version of the show drops on. Welcome wherever
you are in this weird world. It's great to have you.
I had a great Fourth of July with my wonderful
daughter and my amazing girlfriend and my girlfriend's family. I
hope you all enjoyed the fourth as well. I think
it was my favorite ever, which was appropriate given that
it was the two hundred and fiftieth. Maybe you want
to drop eive in the chat where you got up
to because I would love to see it. But I'm
not going to just ramble on too much tonight because
I much rather talk to my guest, who's one of
my very best friends. He's an author, illustrator, and biblical
paranormal researcher. He lives in Waxahatchie, Texas with his children
and beautiful, long suffering wife. I wonder if I've got
woxa Hatchie right this time. I have to ask him.
Beyond his lifelong love of art and comics, his life
has been consumed with the study of archaeology, cryptozoology, ufology,
and astronomy in order to better understand the Bible, It's teachings,
and the one behind its creation. So I'm delighted to
welcome back to talking with my dear friend and of
course my co host of the old Mysterious Library show,
which I still miss to this day, the one and
only mister Jason McLean.
Speaker 3: Hi Dean, It's good to see you mate, How you
doing good.
Speaker 2: I loved Horace's comment, which I saw early on, is
the peering of Jason Dean. Folklore or phenomenon should be fun.
Speaker 3: Either way, It's both, horse, It's always both.
Speaker 2: And of course Horace is riffing on the show titled Tonight,
which is based on I think a talk that you've
given on that folklore isn't phenomena.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct, so I'm looking forward to chat.
Speaker 2: But that how was your fourth though, before we jump
into the weeder aspects.
Speaker 4: It's good. So here's the thing.
Speaker 5: My eldest was born on the fourth of July, so
that's his actual birthday.
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, he.
Speaker 5: Sells cars, so he couldn't do anything on his actual birthday,
so we had to do it on the on the
four on the fifth, actually that morning, and uh yeah,
we celebrated it then with family. But yeah, it was
It was a good weekend. I actually took this week
off to get some other projects done, working on some
online art classes for the kiddos and all that, so
got a chance to get some other projects done this week.
So it was like, well, he's getting you know, his
birthdays this weekend. It's two fifty. Well we'll have some fun.
So here we are. And that is what has allowed
me to come and visit with you today.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad that I have. I'm always delighted to
have you one. What's a Yankee doodle dandy in Texas?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 2: Because he's born on the fourth of July, what's the
equivalent just to a Yankee doodle dandy or.
Speaker 4: Is it that's it?
Speaker 5: Like, there really isn't anything specifically for Texas when it
comes to the fourth it's that's sort of a slightly
overwriting factor.
Speaker 2: And do you what what's the other big do you
have a state national holiday? Like is it based around
the Alamo or is it based it'd be based around
the signing of the Declaration of Texas Independence.
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, okay, so Texas become a nation.
Speaker 5: Yeah know, so really it's honestly Sanja sint to day,
but it's not anything that's overly. That's that's sort of
overly we we because again we've already got so many
uh you know, so many holidays. We kind of have
to get some work done. So we basically just keep
it with the with the major uh, with major holidays.
Although you can blame Juneteenth on us, that was a Texas.
Speaker 4: Thing, so.
Speaker 2: Hu, well there you go. I didn't know that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, it's a it's a Texas thing and celebrates
uh the I forget the name of the general who basically,
you know, showed up in Galveston's like, hey, uh, slavery
isn't a thing anymore so, but actually it was mostly celebrated.
It's the celebration started actually here in Dallas.
Speaker 2: Huh did that occur during the Civil War When you
say the general who showed up in Galveston.
Speaker 4: Well, well it's post Civil War because the Civil.
Speaker 2: War you guys were were you guys were on the
side of the South.
Speaker 4: So yep, okay.
Speaker 5: In fact, yeah, but again, just more Texas history because
we we are genetically required to know it here in here,
in the great State of Texas, and we can't say
it any other way. A lot of the most important
uh civil rights lawsuits and things that made up to
the Supreme Court started here in Dallas.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, We've We've been a hot bed for a lot
of that.
Speaker 2: So I'm an American historian and I did not know
the centrality of Texas.
Speaker 5: In we we are important, We're important a lot of
and a lot of things.
Speaker 2: I know other things. I just didn't know that was
one of the things that Texas Well.
Speaker 5: There's no absolutely, it's in a lot again, World War
two we were really important.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 5: With again, there's a reason Texas instruments and lackeed Martin
and North from Grumm and.
Speaker 4: Like they're all here.
Speaker 5: You know, it's all World War even going back to
as far as World War One. In fact, something I
can tell you because I work in the industry for
Title in Arlington and Graham Prairie, we have every home
that has purchased has and when you're doing refinances, there
is a writer on everything that basically just says, if
you find a bomb, it's not our fault, because a
lot of that area was used for bombing practice for
World War Two, and we are still to this day
digging up these practice bombs. They're about the size of
footballs and they just have fins on the end and
there's essentially a black powder coupsule at the end that
didn't you know, a lot of them just were unexploded ordinance.
We find it happens a lot less frequently now because
you know, there's been a lot of heavy construction over
the last thirty years that sort of clear a lot
of that out. But yeah, they're still found pretty consistently.
Speaker 2: See there's a movie to be made then.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, In fact, there was some unexploded ordinance here
closer to where I live, like two three years ago.
They found it was World War two era ordinance like Hey,
we need the bomb squad here because we got an
eighty year old ordinance live ordinance in here.
Speaker 2: So good grief. It's funny to think that something so
long ago that most, you know, people under the age
of eighteen probably can't even give you the dates for
is just it's still remnants of it are still showing
up in suburban back outs in Texas.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's it's again. The history of the area
is really interesting, like why certain things happened the way
they did, and it's we don't we tend to just
look at the peaks and valleys, like you know in
the big stories that you sort of miss a lot
of the the specific like why did Dallas develop that way?
Speaker 4: Which is why I Actually.
Speaker 5: If you like to know more, you can purchase Metroplex, Monsters, Dallas, Stevens, Fortworth, Gotman,
and Other Tears of the Trinity River available wherever fine books.
Speaker 4: And trashy rags are sold.
Speaker 2: It's a great book. What's your favorite cryptid in there?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 5: Okay, honestly, my so it's not really my favorite cryptid,
it's my favorite and it ties into what we're talking
about tonight, is the Goatman of Dallas and very much
were time to we're gonna talk about today, Actually I had.
I went ahead and pulled old Alton Bridge for tonight's discussion.
And it's so it's not specifically that goat men or
the Dallas goat men are is my favorite cryptid, but
rather it's what I learned studying and researching for that
book around the goat man phenomenon that really changed a
lot of my perspective on a lot of how this works.
So I mean, personally would be the thing I.
Speaker 3: Saw, right, that's you know, the living terroristaurs are my favorites.
Speaker 5: But in many ways, I think the studying the Dallas
goat man stuff really set me on a very I
was already on that path, but has sent me into
a very different way of looking at a lot of
this phenomena, which is what the new book is on.
So you know, a lot of a lot of good,
a lot of going on, but it's into what we're
talking about tonight, right, folklore is not phenomena. And let
me start by saying, when by the end of this episode,
a lot of people are going to go, well, yeah, right,
but I think a lot of people will go I
never thought of it that way. In fact, that's general
if I generally everyone whoever who's ever heard this some
version of this presentation about to give or the conversation
we're going to have, that's the usually reaction I get
is I hadn't thought of it that way, because there's
a lot of things that we sort of assume in
this conversation. But was there anything else you wanted to
cover before we started talking about in salamanders?
Speaker 2: And though I was just being hospitable like a host
in Texas and having to be a chat on a
chat on the front porch, so to speak.
Speaker 4: How dare you, sir?
Speaker 2: No, I want to get I want to get straight
into it now. I think it's it's a fascinating topic
and it's probably been we've probably discussed variance of it,
particularly on the Oh Yeah, and very much missed at
least by My Mysterious Library Show. But i'd love to.
I'd love to. I'd love to jump into it with
you and let you kind of set up our conversation.
I guess.
Speaker 5: So the easiest place to start is just by explaining
what folklore is.
Speaker 4: Because when people use the term.
Speaker 5: Folklore, the the way most people use it colloquially is
the idea that it's fake, right, that it's it's a
it's a made up thing, or it's a fake story.
But that's not what folklore is. In fact, there is
a word that's called fake lore. Fake lore would be
stuff like uh Peko's Bill, right, or Paul Bunyan, Paul Bunyan.
It was like, oh, that's an American tradition entirely made up,
entirely made up by will Wild Bill Hiccock and his
traveling circuses like Peko's Bill, that was all made up
and sold as traditional American folklore. So it's old fake lore,
the slender Man, same thing. We know who made it up,
we know when it was made up, but it's presented as.
Speaker 4: If it's folk lore.
Speaker 5: So folklore literally comes from it means folk of the people,
or lore rather of the people, the folk right, the
common men. From an academic perspective, in fact, let me
just read this off so I don't miss it. But
from an academic perspective, and this is an important serve
of nuance here, it's the body of expressive culture shared
by a particular group of people. Culture or subculture. This
includes oral traditions. You know, like tales, legends, proverbs, poems, jokes,
but also includes material culture that means like building styles.
Technology also does this customary lore taking actions for folk beliefs.
This would include folk religions, which is slightly it's a
slightly different variant from religion, and it's more like think
about how a religion is practiced in regional rituals.
Speaker 4: That kind of thing.
Speaker 5: Festivals, even weddings are a form of folklore. In fact,
this is one of those things that tends to choose
a lot of people's cracker when I say it, but
you'll when you when I say it, it'll make sense.
Even science is a form of folklore, right, And what
I mean by that is we believe as moderns that
that science meaning the act of doing things in a
you know what, we're using the scientific method of measurement, math,
quantifying data, those those steps lead to beneficial outcomes and conclusions.
That is, from an academic perspective, folklore. Telling your kids
to brush their teeth twice today, that's folklore. Now again
that's a strictly academic way of saying it. But the
way most people are going to use it, and what's
most useful for us is it is the beliefs of
a culture, and that can again, it can be jokes,
it can be material culture, technology, things like that. Where
this applies to us is we often in this world,
in this realm, we look at stories, we look at accounts,
but then we also look at the lore.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: The thing is, though, what folklore tells you it is
it's folklore is telling you about how a culture is
interpreting a situation or phenomena. It is telling you how
they view it as telling what they're telling you, what
their worldview is. It's not telling you anything actually about
the phenomena being addressed. And a great example of this
would be the salamander. Let me go ahead and pull
that up real quick. And I know this sounds insane
to it now, but hear me out and I'm not.
They didn't think it was something else. They thought the
salamander you're thinking of, this is what they thought. As
goes back to the Greeks, right, but they thought that
they were that salamanders were created by fire and could
survive and put out flames.
Speaker 4: That's what that drawing is.
Speaker 5: It's literally a salamanders surviving and just hanging out in
fires depending on what time and culture you were in.
Some people believe that they were made literally by glass
blowers doing something incorrectly, that somehow that's what made the salamanders.
Others thought they were born of fires that weren't put
out correctly, that kind of thing. So they were seen
as elemental creatures surrounding fire or involved in fire, and
that's that doesn't tell us anything about salamanders.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: If you were to go back to the ancient Greeks
or evil period and we're like, hey, what do you
think about salamanders, and they tell you this, this doesn't
tell you anything about salamanders. They're amphibians, right, But it
tells you how they're processing this information, how they're looking
at it, right. Same thing with peacocks. There was there
was a time when some people thought peacocks, like their
meat would never go bad and therefore you couldn't even
eat peacocks because your liver couldn't process it. That is
literally something people wrote about.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: At one point there was writing in the Mid Ages
about them being the actual phoenix, and that they they
didn't know how they were, that they were even created,
like they didn't pro create normally, that they were some
sort of weird hodgepodge of different of different animals. Again,
none of that is about you know, we know these
are animals that we know. But the folklore is telling
you how they are thinking about things, how are they
approaching things, how are they what is their worldview about
how the world around them works. So folklore is not
the phenomena itself, however, and this is the big thing,
and this is where things get a little controversial, but
it's a conversation that needs to be had. When we
talk about the lore of an area, it's like, well,
this is what the locals say about this, right, or
this is the story that comes to us from this
particular tribe. I hate to break it to you, but
that's not what That's not a scientific discourse or understanding
of whatever the phenomena is, be it paranormal, cryptologists, cripzoological
or anything. What that is is the story of the
people that are encountering this phenomena and how they're processing it,
how they are interpreting it, how are they, how are
how does their worldview accommodate what's what's happening here? That's
what That's what folklore is telling you, and that is
important right, But it's also not the phenomena itself. In
the same way that how you know, the belief that
men age that Middle Ages of glass blowers were somehow
making salamanders all the time, right, doesn't tell you anything
about salamanders, but it tells you what people thought about
glass blowers, right that it was you know that this
was dangerous and and and it's and so that's sort
of the conversation we need to start having, is is
that when we look at mythologies, when we look at lore,
we need to understand what it's actually telling us and
what it isn't telling us. It's not telling you anything
necessarily about the phenomena, it doesn't mean there isn't interesting
information in there to glean from it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: For example, going back to the peacock, you know, conversation,
they genuinely would have conversations right that that the cries
we could drive someone insane. Now, anyone who has heard.
Speaker 6: The screaching of a of a of a of a
stupid peacock will tell you where that that that is one.
Speaker 5: I get it, like, I understand where this is coming from,
because I would be if I had them living on
my property, I would definitely be tempted to make certain
that they were no longer living on my property.
Speaker 2: Well, I used to have guinea foul and that they
don't enough to drive you insane. Oh yeah, similar kind
of crazy bird sounds. I just quickly because I agree,
as I do with with much of what you say.
I do think sometimes, as you said, and my important
just to look at that a little before we move on,
that there can be genuine information. Yes, on folklore. I
would think, for example that the focalore of fairy faith,
which is one of my favorites of very extensive collection
of stories and tales, and I suppose laws and prescriptions
on how to deal with the other in Ireland, can
probably teach us today more about the UFO phenomenon than
any scientists employed by the government or any other modern
scientific institution. I think sometimes within the tales of the folk,
within the tales of people who have had experiences with
the anomalous for hundreds of years and have built up
legends and law around that, I think there are valuable
pieces of truth in there about the law. So I
think I think it can go both ways. I think
you're right, some of it is clearly going to make
you think, well, the salamander isn't going to live in
fire and a peacock isn't going to drive you insane.
That's nutty. But then when you hear about the type
of behavior of the other is described in fairy law
and apply it to UFO reports, the UFO reports, all
of a sudden seeing to make more sense, at least
in a broader historical context.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: And that's what I'm saying is that there is And
that is something that again we have to state is
I'm not stating that folklore is not important. It is, right, However,
it is important to recognize what it is in where
it's coming from and why. Right When is folklore genuinely
important in actually giving you data you can work with, right,
And I would suggest that it isn't necessarily a story.
Speaker 4: Within the fame.
Speaker 5: But when you take that step back and you can
look across cultures, right, and the themes that keep popping
up and the advice that keeps being given, again, you
can there is I don't think there is a culture
on the planet that wouldn't give you some version of
this advice. If you're walking in the woods on a
trail and you hear a friend or a family member
call your name.
Speaker 4: No, you didn't.
Speaker 5: Right, every culture is gonna some is gonna have some
version of that advice, right, same thing with don't eat
food given to you.
Speaker 4: By these by the other.
Speaker 5: Right, that is a near cultural universal. So in being
able to take that step back and say, let's look
at the folklore, let's look at where these there's these
points of overlap, and that's important, and I think there's
there's you know, there's value there. At the same time,
that doesn't necessarily mean that was well, it looks like
a bigfoot over here, and according to some tales over here,
they're you know, short people over here, the you know,
the elves are actually normal human size. Over here, they
look like they've got antlers and you know, and dear feet.
It's not that those again, those things are cultural. So
and as long as we're as long as we're not
trying to use folklore taxonomically, right.
Speaker 2: No, I agree with all of that. I wonder though,
if the phenomenon becomes the thing or because of the
way the phenomenon operates, Right, So when we look at
things we know in the physical world, I think you're
absolutely correct. The misunderstandings of you know, the nature of
a salamander or the nature of a peacock, for example.
But I wonder if there is an anomalous phenomenon, which
I think both you and I agree, something anomalous is
going on with some of the reports that people have.
I wonder then if the focal or, While you're quite
I think you're quite correct in saying the focal or
is not the phenomenon, I wonder if sometimes the phenomenon
doesn't become the focalore when by saying that, I mean
it doesn't put on the mask of the focal or,
it doesn't put on the appearance of the folklore. And
that could be through a number of different processes. It
could be through just our own psychological training in what
to expect something that we encounter walking home late at night,
if we encounter in a dark field. Or it could
be that the phenomenon itself leaves off those expectations and
it just presents like a camouflage. Or it could be
that it's conscious and it kind of understands what we
expect to hear. Or it could be that through our
own workings with folkal I know focal ortists talk about
something called a stension, right, and that means when you
try to relive the legend or the focal or yourself
and the most the most I suppose probably today, the
most common variant of that is probably legend tripping, at
least in our field, which was a shameless plug for
my new web series. You just go to home movie
legend trip dot com.
Speaker 5: You should, and by the way, everyone should go and
watch the videos. They're short, but they are a lot
of fun. They're very I love the aesthetic that you're
that you're going with.
Speaker 2: Man, you've been so supportive to sharing, and I can't
thank you enough. But in many ways that's what people
are doing there, or even people like you know, they
go to Roswell the Hope to find a piece of
the saucer still out in the desk, or they go
to Area fifty one to follow, you know, in the
footpaths of bobblers are to go out to the black
mail box and to see a UFO in the sky.
So sometimes folklore becomes Sometimes folklore almost through our own action,
starts to manifest itself in our reality.
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 5: It's almost like you've read my book and knew where
I was going with this. Yeah, well, so here's the thing.
I kind of already addressed that in hmm Metroplex Monsters,
Dallas Demon's Fort Worth, Goatman and other tales of the
trick the Turney River.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, you meet you up coming on.
Speaker 5: I love that book available wherever fine, fine books and
trashy rags are sold.
Speaker 4: That's the that's the shtick. I gotta do the shtick.
Speaker 5: But Old Alton Bridge is probably the most famous goat
man bridge in Texas right now. The thing is, we
have a lot of these, so but we'll talk about
Old Alton Bridge here for a second. I've been there.
It's nothing special. It's an Iron Trust bridge. There are
the Iron Trust bridges all over the Dallas.
Speaker 4: Fort Worth Metroplex. They they just are.
Speaker 5: And each one of them has a goat man legend.
And there's goat variations of goat men legends around creeks
all over the DFW. And the thing that I was
shocked by the most is we can kind of see
the progression of how the story goes. Now when you're
dealing with the story everyone's heard today, right, the one
that everyone points to is it was a as the
old Alton Bridge. Goat Man was a black man who
was successful. He owned a goat farm on the outskirts
of town because obviously, you know, this was early twenties,
he couldn't live in town, but he was very successful.
And so a bunch of klansmen went out there, killed
his family and hanged him from the Iron Trust Bridge,
and his head came off, and now he is a
in his body. His goat went out found a found
one of the goats. Well, so so let me rephrase this.
That's I'm sorry, I'm mixing up the story. He dies,
and so he was called the goat man, and now
he's haunting the area.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: However, there's an older story where it's a white guy
who was who actually was a criminal who killed his
own family, and he was punished by being hanged off
of the the Iron Trust Bridge and his head was
pulled off, and so he went and so the body
went and found a goat, ripped its head off, put
it on there, and he's haunting the area. The story
changes with the culture. It was very and in what
we've what I found with a lot of these is
it's very clearly stories to tell kids essentially to keep
them away from the bridge right at night, and so
if you go out there at night, goat Man's gonna
get you.
Speaker 4: Uh say uh.
Speaker 5: The Iron Trust Bridge specific is even though there is
one in Italy, Texas just about fifteen minutes south in
May and it's Italy not Italy.
Speaker 4: Get it right.
Speaker 5: Anyway, The story is about the train tracks specifically right,
and that the kid, the spirit of the kid who
who also now has a goat head in some versions
of the story, was killed by a train because unfortunately,
when trains were new, that was a big deal. So
they were trying. They were these stories that were initially
designed to tell kids to get off of the train tracks.
But the goat imagery doesn't always match one hundred percent
until much later on with Old Alton Bridge. It's clear
in the sixties, right when you have the civil rights
going on, the it goes from being a white guy
who is a murderer to a sympathetic black man who's
killed by the klan. So you can we now have
good guys, we have bad guys, and it's like this,
this is a tragic story. There's also an alternative version
that exists before the bridge.
Speaker 4: Was even formed.
Speaker 5: It was even made there was an escaped slave who
was hanged off of a tree overhanging the.
Speaker 4: Creek.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. It's interesting too, and I'm just going to
cut it again and then floor back to you because
we're talking about bridges and goat man's story of course
in older traditions, and I'm thinking about a fairy tale
that every kid would have been read when there's a
billy goat gruff story about a troll who's under the
bridge and it's the goats which are fed to the
troll to appease the troll. Within Scandinavian or Germanic folkal
so there seems to be some interconnection with that as well,
a troll goat niction and then the goat man stories
that are part of you know the story you're telling
me now.
Speaker 5: Well and what's even and again to make that even more,
there is a tradition of creeks and rivers going all
the way back to Greece where you have to say
a god to guard it's his name three times. Things
like that spirits in and around crossings. It's a very union.
It's again one of those cultural universals and one of
the things that you can do at these bridges is
you can drive up to them, you can honk three times,
turn off your car right, and the goat man will
appear and tear it up. If you're talking about old
Foamy and in Johnson County. So but every version has
like hey you if you if you honk three times
or you knock three times, right, that's a very very
common story. But the thing I noticed while I was
working on the book was they all had the same
things about what's seen, right. And what I mean is
they'll they'll tell you or everyone will say, yeah, if
you if you go there, like people see red glowing eyes,
the creature haunts there, and you can hear the sound
of goats sometimes, or it'll throw trash and tires that
you know, it's the tires that caught me every time, right, right,
And and that's when I realized, like, hold on, I'm
seeing the same the exact fact, same language used all
the way back to the the Lake Worth Monster event
with Jim Mars's reporting. Hold On, Bigfoot fans should recognize
this book right. Really got this from the granddaughter of
the of Sally and Clark. But she the importance of
this book is she saved and preserved the story of
Lakeworth Monster, particularly the accounts published in the newspaper by
Jim Mars, the late Jim Mars.
Speaker 2: And again he passes a conspiracy theorist and euthologist. And
the only books that his I writer, his conspiracy and
his phote books. I haven't I didn't know he did
big foot stuff as well.
Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing. He was a reporter. That's the thing.
Speaker 5: He was just a reporter. He was just reporting on
the event that there was heard. It was big, big news,
and so a lot of that came on, you know,
that hit him later on in his career. In fact,
I know several people who were friends of his, because
he just passed relatively recently.
Speaker 3: It's been the last twenty years.
Speaker 5: But I knew people who I know people who knew him.
Speaker 4: I never met him.
Speaker 2: I wish I had. I saw him speak at an
event back in the day. But you know, you don't
want to go up and be like just a fanboy.
You want to ask real questions, but you don't want
to be with a crew of fifty people all taking
on his lips quickly too. Flat Rockland or aka matt Auckland.
In fact, there's a few comments by corporate questions as
well as from Horrors that I'll put up later, But
he made the point of saying, after reading Joshua Cutch
and Stuff, I look at bridges or any river crossing much. Yes, differently.
I'm not sure what book Joshua talks about that in,
but his books are fantastic. I was going to make
a similar point though, of course, saying that near where
I am Sam Manton, my amazing girlfriend who's watching and
eye before we did home movie Legendship. We did a
number of legendships locally just for fun with our kids.
And there's a Bloody Bride bridge where there was meant
to be a bride ghost. There was I think boy
Scout Lane bridge or something where a bus of boy
Scouts was meant to go off the and die, and
if you parked your car there at night you could
be pushed and throughout all of history, I think, as
I mentioned the Billy Goat Gruff story before, as you
mentioned in those stories, I guessing a bridge is like
kind of a liminal space, Like you can think of
the headless Horsemen, where you get across the bridge, you'll
be okay. You can think about the idea of running
water in fairy traditions where the fairies can't cross the water,
so the bridge might be a safe havevor And it's
also a liminal space. It's a space that crosses over
the water, kind of in the air, between two sides
of land. So it's that's super fascinating that it doesn't
seem a matter where on the planet in your area.
It seems to be that the idea of a goat
man became associated with it. Yes, but I suspect that
wherever we went in this planet would be able to
find bridges with strange stories. And before I throw it
entirely back to you, I will ask you a question
from Flat Rookland aka Matt Auckland, who's a good friend
of mine. He's been on the show. He says, Jason,
or all the towns around you just goofy sauting Deans
Dean still cnu't pronounce your your town.
Speaker 4: Correctly yet, Well, that's my design. That's that's how we do.
That's how we do.
Speaker 5: Like it is Italy, Texas, but we again to pronounce
it correctly. It's Italy. But uh and again we tell
this again. My favorite joke about walks Acchy. In fact,
I it's funny. I grew up fifteen minutes north of here,
and walks a Hactche was a place I went to
every once in a while, you know, to buy paintball supplies,
like I just didn't care. Like Cedar Hill, walks a
Haatche had more cows than people when I was a kid.
But the jokes there were two guys walking through walks
at you. They're trying to they couldn't decide if it
was waksa Hatchie or wax a Hatchie, And so they
walk into dairy Queen. They're like, ma'am, can you tell
us how to pronounce.
Speaker 4: Where we are?
Speaker 5: And she looks and says, very slowly, dairy Queen. So yeah,
trust me, this is it's the thing. Don't even get
me started on the differences between Nakodochis, which is in
Texas and nakadish which is in Louisiana.
Speaker 3: That's all.
Speaker 5: Oh, but Bear County. Don't even ask me how Bear
County is spelled.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's for a bar when he was barely three.
Speaker 5: Nope, it's b e x a R. It's it's it's
from the Spanish bahar and it's bear, but you can
always tell whenever somebody like when you've already and sadly
when you've alreay happened. Members like it's in Bexar County
and I'm like, it is.
Speaker 3: Not Bexar County.
Speaker 4: It's just it hurt. It hurt a lot. Yeah. Trust,
there's whole.
Speaker 5: Videos dedicated to how Texans say things towns. You're not
going to get any of them right, Like.
Speaker 2: You should try to pronounce some things in Wisconsin. Man's crazy.
But I'm going to throw to two horror statements in
questions Harris Smith, who is Professor Emeris of Astronomy and
Physics at Michigan State University as well as a good
friend of both mine and Jason's and the show. He
suggests maybe Dena Jason should have quarterly mysterious library episodes
of talking weird. I'm totally damned for.
Speaker 4: That, Horace. Have you been talking to Doug Hijack?
Speaker 2: That would be great.
Speaker 5: I keep I keep barking at a friend of mine,
like every time we talk. I'm like, hey, uh, you
you propose to your to your girlfriend there? Yet he's
like you and my dad, Horace, you and my dad
in Doug, You and Doug Man, what's going on here?
Speaker 2: Ah, and here's a question from Horace to what we'll
get through. Horace's too once at the moment. But Horace
and Flat if you want to ask anything else, please
a free uh, he asks, this is Horace again. When
particular focal or stories are set down in books or videos,
doesn't make the story more or less open to change
in future tellings.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's let me use a metaphor as an example,
because it's a it's yes and no. What I would
say is it allows us to It allows for a
particular telling to be more universally known, but it also
allows us to track the changes better. Right, Spider Man,
his origin has been retold multiple times over the years,
right in the comics, and it's like, forget about the movies,
but the comics, and it keeps changing a little bit
every time because they had to move it from the
sixties and they have to keep bringing it up sometimes.
Speaker 4: Doctor Octopost is.
Speaker 5: Now included in the event, and it went from just
a random spider that happened to get he radiated biting
him to it was an accident and there was an
actual explosion. So the story keeps changing to fit the
cultural need in time, and then when they did a
reboot with the Ultimate Universe, it became a genetically modified
Spider right. It was no longer radiation being the big buggaboo,
came genetic modification.
Speaker 2: To just just ask you quickly and then I'll let
you get back to that. I can't help because I
was anything about the other day, because I'm letting my
daughter finally watch some of the MCU movies, and some
of them are great, some are just junk. But is
there stuff You can see the canon and you go, okay, well,
this is the real story. I don't care that somebody
wrote this in the nineties. This is the one that
or I don't care that you know a character used
to be like this and now characters like that's the
original one is always going to be my character.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing.
Speaker 5: You You've opened a can canon of worms with that one.
Speaker 4: In the comic space. I assure you.
Speaker 5: What I would say is, if this is sort of
the this is gonna sound like I'm wincing out on it,
but I'm not. If someone had said this, I forget who,
I forget what what comic artists said this or writers said,
they said, canon is the thing that sticks, right, It's
the thing. So every there's always gonna be retcons. There's
always going to be changes to meet. You know, we're
talking about a character that has like a sixty year history, right,
Superman's over seventy five. I think he's maybe eighty years
old now, right. I mean, like we have characters coming
back to the thirties, They're going to have to be
changes that are made. And canon is technically anything that
happens in the main line. But again, when that main
line is fifty years old or sixty years old, you're
always gonna have to update. So canon are things that stick.
And because there's been such a long history, now it's like, well,
this is what happened during this time, and that's been
retconned out, or it's been it's or there's been retconn
that nuanced those events into something else, right, because you
kind of have to grow and evolve and you have
to allow room for it. So canon is thing are
things that stick. But the thing about any story is
there does have to be a cultural touchdown, Like it
has to appeal to us on a huge human level.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: The reason the original Star Wars spoke to so many people,
and partly the extended universes. Those are people who are
interested in telling stories that worked and spoke to the
audience right, that met those cultural needs. Superman, Spider Man,
the X Men, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings. These
are all modern mythologies in the same way. It's a
little different, but it really does feel the same cultural
space that most mythologies have. Always Tarzan is also in conan.
Those are cultural touchstones. The Cowboy, right, that's the mythic hero,
that's our version of the night. And so these stories
have mythic power and cultural cohesion. That's why we do them.
It's why we tell them a thousand years ago. It's
going to be something else, right, It's going to be
even though they have more in a way, and this
is it's like, well that weren't you know, wasn't Zeus
and Jupiter, you know, Yolgamesh? Was that tied into their religion?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: On a cultural level, yes, absolutely, and on a religious
level also, However, the cultural impact is is the same
as these stories.
Speaker 2: Okay, do you think it's problematic for us now though,
that we accelerate so quickly, like if you were if
you were you know, a Greek in you know, I
don't know two thousand BC or you know, five hundred BC,
you probably thought pretty much the same things about things,
do you know what I mean? I shouldn't use those
figures because they don't know what I will say with
periods where your belief is very similar. Well today, as
you mentioned, since the creation of many of these Marvel characters,
you know, in the sixties. I'm lucky because I bowed
out of the comic universe in the late eighties. So
my cannon is the canon, you know what I mean? Yeah,
that was the original story. I don't have to have
a different Nick Fury, a different Spider Man, a different Thaw,
a different this, a different that. I know, the story
of the Marvel universe inside an house. Yeah, and I
don't need to reimagine it. But it's always interesting watching
a Marvel universe moving going. No, that's just so wrong. Yeah, well,
of course it's probably happened in the comic book already,
but I just haven't read the comic.
Speaker 5: Book for right exactly or how are the modifications they've
made from the story. So and actually this is going
to bring us back to where I wanted to go
with uh with the goat man anyway. And this is
important because we have this idea that there's the story
of Gilgamesh, right, or there's the Epicaal. No, there's multiple.
It's not that everyone had Like if you lived in
a town that you had the same cultural stories for
a thousand years, you would have Now, they would definitely
stay around longer, right, they they weren't necessarily updated every
generation like they are now.
Speaker 4: One percent.
Speaker 5: I do think that is a The lack of stability
is a problem, right, The lack of a cultural canon
is a problem.
Speaker 4: They just is.
Speaker 5: But there was a lot more diversity and stories did
change also in the you know, back in the olden days,
ye olden days.
Speaker 4: Views on.
Speaker 5: You know, a lot of these stories were regional as well, right,
every different city states had different versions of those stories,
and they did grow, and they did change, and gods
would fall out of favor and knew gods would replace
them and those stories would get switched out. So in
many ways, it's act what we see. We're just seeing
it faster, right. We can kind of see it happen
in real time. We can see the folklore grow and
evolve in real time, and so it is different in
that regards, But that is what happened about, you know,
two thousand years ago in Greece and Egypt and China
and everywhere else. It's the same process.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2: It probably wouldn't have changed in your lifetime, though, right
unless there was a political cue, like there wasn't Egypt
in one time, where they decided we're getting rid of
all the old gods, have one God, and then there
was a cue back the other way fifty years later,
we're getting rid of the one God and only having enough.
So there were those kinds of but usually you were
safe in your lifetime that your legends wouldn't change. So
while I agree, I think a lot of these stories
fell a cultural void for people who mightn't have a
religion or a fairy faith system or a belief system
that they lean into. I think you're absolutely right. It
is I don't know, problematic might be the wrong word,
but to me, it's strange to see the stories of
my youth rewritten and refabricated in such historically small amount
of time. It's just a weird experience to see the
same heroes presented, And I think politics probably crept into
is like we were talking about in ancient Egypt as well.
But I think those political upheavals would be incredibly big
changes that people would be really you know, it'd be devastating. Well,
perhaps because we realize these things are fictional, they aren't
as big. But back I could go down this, we
could do a whole comic book show. Maybe that's for
a mysterious library when we retake it up. Like Corra said,
but back to your back to the points that you
were making, which I think are far more important on
focalore and phenomenon. Let's slide back into this, so I'll
throw it back to you so all this time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, here's so, here's where this all kind of joins
back up. Right in the same way that we can
see Spider Man going from being an open air radiation
experiment to a radiation accident to genetic modification, you know,
with the Spider we see that happen with the with
the goat man, right, because all of these iron Trust
Bridges had their own pre existing hanged man's lore that
wasn't necessarily tied to goat people. Originally some of them were,
some of them were, but not all of them, but
what happened with the Worth monster event, right, Jim Mars late,
you know, takes the goat man moniker from one of
the early from one of the early eyewitnesses, and then
everyone starts calling everything goat man. And now the goat
man replaces the monikers of some of these pre existing
stories going all the way back to eighteen hundreds, the
initial settling of the land, people talk about the monster
or the creature that would haunt these the tributaries and
creaks in the area, and so once it became the
goat man, now everything's the goat man, and stories start
to grow and change and evolved to accommodate this new information.
And literally they're taking they used Jim Mars's reports and
they say, this is what is seen at these things.
And when you talk to people who were like I
was here, here's what happened to me, it's very different,
very clearly paranormal. Right, It's not a goat man that
people see, except for one.
Speaker 4: We'll come back to it.
Speaker 5: So what I notice is there's a difference between what
people say other people see and what people say they've
seen are two very different things. And that's where the
that's where the the folklore aspect starts coming in again.
The folklore is not the phenomena. The phenomena is real.
There was always something. There's why people were talking about
the monster or the creature. And they had hanged manned
ghost stories that then got reshuffled in real time because
of the Lake Worth goat man event that Jim Mars
was writing about. So so in that way, in the
same way that Spider Man goes through that evolution and
you know, his story changes and evolves in the same way,
we have the same story sort of happening to the
goat man. And here's where it gets really weird. Trying
to keep it from falling. I don't know I'm gonna
win that fight. But here's where things get really interesting.
There is a goat man of white Rock Lake. And
this goes to what you were saying, people see an
actual goat man at white Rock Lake. What I'm like,
great contributions to zoology is adding the second story attached
to an actual human being name right, again beyond folklore
eyewitness account. So I've added the second story of people
seeing a goat man. But here's where things get really
really weird. There's plenty of So the way all of
the lakes around here made is we dam up a tributary,
right all that's going to the Turney River. We dam
up the creeks and the rivers and things to make
these lakes. But particularly inside of Dallas, you have to
have spillways and things. Obviously well one of them there.
There are several accounts of people seeing these creatures that
are clearly where the tributaries are connected to White Rock Lake,
but the creature doesn't have horns. And even at old
Alton Bridge someone saw a thing about a like a
quarter mile down the road, maybe half of my out
down the road.
Speaker 4: It doesn't look like a goat man.
Speaker 5: But there does seem to be a connection between what
that person saw what this other person saw off of
white Rock Lake. So it does there does seem to
be a connection to the story and these creatures taking
or these entities taking a form that it seems to
be connected to the mythology of the area.
Speaker 4: So the question.
Speaker 5: Becomes and I think in your point is very well made,
and I think it's it's an excellent point. Yes, the
folklore is not describing the phenomena, but the phenomena does
seem to respond to the folks. Right, people do see
Brownie's what you would call a brownie, Right, people do
see goat men. People do see these things. They do
see you know, La lachusa, right, and La La Tusa
does show up. Now that's a little more complicated because
it's connected to witchcraft, et cetera. But the people have
seen slender Man. Question becomes are we are they taking
this form? Or are our stories? And I think this
is a good place to sort of start wrapping up
this concept. Are our stories allowing them access to us?
Meaning most things like well, they're taking a form that
we would imagine, or this is how our brain is,
you know, we're culturally programmed to process this thing. And
I think those are those are good interpretations, But I
think the other version we need to we need to
think of. And this was brilliantly played out. And I
think it was the last Nightmare. It was like the
last Robert England Freddy Krueger before they shut everything down
originally where it was a movie within a movie, and
it's what it's honestly my favorite one because it's it
changes up the entire concept.
Speaker 4: It's like, yes, this is all.
Speaker 5: These are all movies. But and they even had Wes
Craven in the movie write in the script and he explains, like,
we tell these scary stories to keep this thing trapped
within the story, and if we don't, it gets out right.
It becomes sort of this cultural connect And when she
ultimately fights and kills the thing, right, when it's in
its layer, it has the face of credit of Freddy,
but it's on a serpent, right, and we see elements
of the gingerbread house, right, and all these elements from
all of these stories that humanity has been telling for
thousands of years, and she kills, and of course the
end of the movie is Wes Craven closing a script
or clothes that he was writing, and you're like, the
entire premise is that he was doing this. So the
question then becomes, not is this thing taking its form
or is our brain making it look like that in
order to accommodate our cultural expectations? Is our stories? Are
our stories giving a pathway for these things to enter
into our universe and interact with us? And so it's you,
it's taking on that mantle because that's the story we know,
and that's the story we tell, which is why it
changes in does look like a brownie here, a sayer there,
a big foot over here for some again not all cases,
but maybe that's what it looks like over here, A
dog man over there, a la lachusa whatever, a slender man.
Are our stories interacting with it on that level? So again,
folklore is not phenomena, but there does seem to be
some kind of a feedb lo looper. Maybe the phenomena
wants us to think it's the folklore.
Speaker 2: That is interesting. I think I think the most interesting question, well,
I think it's the second most interesting question. I think
the second most interesting question is if you and I
correct in our assessment of all of this, and I
think we are. The second most interesting question is how
does the mechanism work? Why is it and how is
it that the phenomenon seems to present back to us
either what we individually expect or what we culturally expect.
I think the most interesting question is what does it
actually tell us about reality? That I think the most
interesting question transcends the experience of the projection of the
folklore back to us through whatever the phenomenon is, but
our what does our interaction with that phenomenon and that
interaction with our focal or in some thing which puts
on the mask or presents itself back to us. What
does that teach us about our reality? And I think
that's one of the things which we don't often even
question because the space is so obsessed with the phenomenon itself,
rather than what kind of reality permits that type of
reflective perhaps phenomenon to exist in? You know, I think
that's really the most interesting question. We're talking about what
the phenomenon is. Then the most interesting question is what's
the mechanism that lets it behave like this? Is it
just somehow us just projecting? Is it somehow that we
are in? Well, then it becomes a question of what
the reality is. Are we in some simulation? It's like
things being dropped into us that we're programmed to expect.
Is it that it's a chameleon and a camouflage. Isn't
it somehow reads off of us what we expect? Or
it just presents back to us an energy which is
what we expect. I have no idea of any of that,
but I think the key to all of this, the
most important thing about all of this is recognizing that
this seems to be exactly what you've said, Tonied. It
seems to be how the phenomenon itself works, feeding off
our focal or and feeding it back to us. And
then what does that tell us about?
Speaker 5: So I would throw one little caveat in there, which
is they're in the same way that again folk core
is folklorets tells us more about the people telling the
story than it does about the phenomenon it self.
Speaker 4: Right, But when you.
Speaker 5: Take that big step back, there are patterns that evolve
and and and absolutely show up. Right, there's definitely cultural nuances.
But again the things we already discussed. Don't eat the
don't eat the stuff. If he hears your if you
if you hear a friend that you know isn't with
you calling you, you know, to hop off the trail,
No you didn't. There are these, you know, these universals
that keep popping up across these stories. The same forms
also pop up in the idea of the wild man
that is half animal, right.
Speaker 2: The woadehouse in England, Bigfoot here, or the whatever whatever wherever.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but also very but even some of the specifics
of the backward facing hooved legs right, right, ink you
do fromyogamesh it was the legs of a bull. But
what's the difference with I mean, really, there's no big
difference between bullham and got as far as symbolically right.
The leshie of Indo Europe has the same thing.
Speaker 4: Satyrs.
Speaker 5: These are cult These seem to be largely cultural universal expressions.
There's versions of goat people everywhere, including antlers or horns.
Speaker 2: Right in fact that there might be a real secret
in that too. The whole conception of pan seems to
be central to so much of this, as so many
authors have recognized.
Speaker 5: The same thing with Ila Chusa right again in the
book I have you know a woman's chase. Again, there's
there's magic there but here, but that's also part of
the connection the siren. It was originally in Greek mythology,
not aquatic. They were bird people. Now we would think
of them as harpies, right, so harpies would be most
would most people would recognize this. But then you have
Lilith is connected to owl, right, it is often seen
as a large female screech owl or a woman. But
there's also the I always get it wrong. I think
it's the ahol in Papua New Guinea, which is a
witch that turns in that you know, her body separates
as she turns to this half bat monster thing. But again,
bat is a night is a night bird central?
Speaker 2: Yeah, an owl, of course is central to alien abduction
stories and to interpretations of gray extraterrestrials. Essentrally, the many
strange even pop cultural motifs like the owls are not
what they seem in twin peaks. I mean, the owls
certainly has some significance to minerve or it has significance
all of these different things.
Speaker 5: And so it's it's so the bigger point here is
again I'm using for those who are listening. When I
said bird, it's in quotation marks. It is a night
flying creature. It's a creature of the night that flies.
Owls occupy that space for most other cultures. But the
bigger point is the form is itself universal. Right, There's
the wild man with backward facing legs. There's the woman
that is connected to either is a transformed witch or
is a thing that is created and called upon by
a witch that is connected to a night avy you know,
flying creature usually an owl, but sometimes bats.
Speaker 3: When owls don't exist in that region.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So while yes, there is some feedback loop with with
folklores and cultural expectations for these things, at the same time,
there do seem to be forms that also pop up
and they shouldn't, right unless there was something there the
same way that the First Nations group that's in Alaska
that Joshua Cutchen writes about, where it's like, hey, you're
not supposed to eat the salmon, right, in the same
way the the Irish are telling you don't eat the
food in fairyland, right, same thing, same story.
Speaker 4: People see the same thing.
Speaker 5: They see these goat people, they see these bird women,
and these are cultural universals. So there has so there
there's also some element that does seem to be independent
of culture or even reshaping culture, so that it's always
appearing the same way. Again, what the feedback loop is
or how the mechanics of it works, I don't know.
I think at this point it's and I think this
is where you and I will will separate ways when
it comes like the idea of because you're true for
it and you don't think science can say anything, I
would suggest science can. We can use science to say
there is a phenomena, but we can't measure it right.
It doesn't it's outside of our ability to observe because
we ain't got the Spookatron five thousand patent pending.
Speaker 2: But I think I think that's just a philosophical statement
and a soft science's statement anyway, Like as in a Storian,
I can say that, I think the sciences, by nature
are going to have a problem accepting something which includes
a paradigm. We're a phenomenon or a phenomena inhabit that paradigm,
and they just go, well, we can't explain it. I
think science, by its nature will exclude the things that
can't explain outside of its paradigm.
Speaker 5: I don't I don't disagree, but I think there's always
room for change and growth, and I think we were
going to see that. And again, because you have here's
the thing, there has to be somebody fighting for that worldview.
And I think this is where again the question is, well,
how what does this MECHANI isn't like you said, your
question is does this tell us about the world around us?
I don't think we're equipped to even understand the nature
of it We're meant.
Speaker 2: I don't think we're meant to to be honest.
Speaker 5: There's something I want to look at. I want to
look at something more. I actually have it saved. But
there was a guy who made some sort of discovery
in AI about like what happens when like characters in
the video game understand the rules of the game, like
actually how it works versus what you interact with and
it crashing the system. I want to look more into it.
But his his proposal is our universe is designed for
us not to really understand how it works on the.
Speaker 4: Real we'll call it the code level.
Speaker 5: Right, we are meant to understand how the game works, right,
like you go to your death, Mario runs, hits the block,
gets the fire flower. Like, those are the things we're
supposed to understand, not the programming that makes it happen.
Speaker 4: We may understanding that. And again, what if we talked
about for years now the microscope?
Speaker 5: Right, you go back six hundred years and tell people
the reason everyone gets sick is because of the little
tiny animals so small you can't see. They look at
you like you were nuts because.
Speaker 4: They didn't have a microscope.
Speaker 5: We ain't get the Spookatron five thousand, you know, two
thousand we can't. We can't objectively observe the nature of reality.
I would say is here's what I would say. Since
it's becoming clear that we live in a reality where
our folklore, our cultural understandings are not the phenomena, but
the phenomena is responding to it, we should probably take
the advice that every other culture has come up with,
which is you stay away from it, agree, don't say
its name, like, don't interact that. I think that is
probably the most dangerous thing that is going around right now,
is we seem to have the belief that we can
interact with this phenomena safely in this community. Every other
culture before now, every single one would look at you
and say you're insane for trying to get this stuff
out to talk to.
Speaker 2: You and let unless that say, you collapse the simulation
unless it is waiting for some message that we haven't
given it yet, and then the whole thing, yeah, and
we escape the Truman Show reality or the Matrix or
whatever else that we're in. I didn't actually think that,
but but I like to play Devil's avocation. I have
to throw two questions to you, because Donnie asked some
questions tonight.
Speaker 4: Ah, Donald and he.
Speaker 2: Said, this is from Donnie Show's stuff. He's a Johnny Shows,
a very good friend of both Jason and myself. He asks,
are all excited for the new ought to see movie
coming out? Can't wait for that? Met Damon Action.
Speaker 5: He says, Donnie, you're why we can't have nice things.
Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's your answer, Donnie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's you're why we can't.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I should be really thrilled because it is
looking good for the new Spider Man movie. The movie
I'm the only movie I am actually excited for this year,
Doom three. I they've just dropped a new trailer yesterday
and it looks like Villanueva has.
Speaker 4: A villain Neuve how do you pronounce?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 5: Has stuck the landing on this. I don't know how
many people are gonna are going to like it because
of because the the overarching message of doune and it's
very clear that villa Neuve has has has really leaned
into making that very obvious.
Speaker 4: I am that is the only movie.
Speaker 3: I'm excited for it this year? What about Young Wash?
What about Young Washington?
Speaker 4: Oh? Okay, that one.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw that yesterday with my daughter. It's great,
It's really good.
Speaker 5: Okay, cool, Yeah, I want to see it in the theaters.
Speaker 2: But like Disclosure Day, that's a legitimate question for you.
Have you seen Disclosure Day yet?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Well, you watch The X Files, didn't you. Yeah, so
you've seen a better version of it.
Speaker 5: I've seen a better version of Yeah, exactly, like I've
already I've already watched The X Files. Like again, like
I have no interest in seeing Like I didn't even
like I wanted to watch Mortal Kombat too. I'm like,
I'll catch it on streaming. Same thing with super Girl.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 5: And I've heard a friend of mine, Donnie in fact,
let me friend of Donnie Ray loved it.
Speaker 4: Ray thought it was a great movie.
Speaker 2: So I didn't go to see that. I mean, I
heard from people like reviewers, I respect really bad things.
I was going to take my daughter to it, and
we might still get there. I'm looking forward to the News.
What I've liked about the Spider Man movie so far,
the News, Spider Man, maybe God the Sacond Night. But
I loved the Michael Keaton Vulture. He was just so great.
And I love the Jake gillanhor Mysterio. Just Mysterio was
so good. It was so great to see both of
those characters portrayed in it. Really, it by by very charismatic,
you know, actors in a sympathetic way almost to both
of those, particularly the Vulture. That's that's been the highlight
probably of recent Marvel Universe stuff for me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Sony has done very well by Spider Man in
the MCU, and that's why I'm like I I'm looking
forward as we're getting We're getting a true Scorpion. I
never thought we would get an actual Scorpion.
Speaker 2: And the Punisher from it, not that I've ever watched
Netflix series, but the Punisher is in a Spider Man
movie is great as well, because that's of course how
we I grew up on Punisher and Daredevil and Spider Man.
That's how before Mike Bannon or Mike Barron whoever did
the original Punisher stuff. Right, Yeah, I grew up with
him reading Spider Man and reading Daredevil. That's where I
saw him.
Speaker 5: There's a a lot of talk that's that Daredevil is
in this one, that they're hiding him, and there's reason
to think that they're hiding him with some of some
of the stuff that's popped up, and there's like, again,
I Sony's done well. So I'm optimistic about Spider Man.
I'm just worried that there's a lot going on in
the story, like we're doing the other where he gets
organic webbing and all that, and he's his powers are
growing and changing and I'm geeking out entirely so. But
Dune was the only movie I was like, this is
the movie I have to watch in theaters.
Speaker 4: This is it?
Speaker 5: So yes, no Odyssey again, Donnie, you are why we
can't have nice things?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably probably it. Then, Jason, Man,
it was so great talking to you again. And we
do have to I think Horace and Ordaig or whoever
suggested initially, and I haven't heard anything we've doug, but
from Horace I sent we have yeah, a quarterly mysterious library.
Speaker 3: That would be fun, you know what, Well, I will,
I'll talk, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 5: But if okay, but if we do that, the next
one is about soup, is about comic books.
Speaker 4: Dang it.
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, that's my that's my one requirement is
that at least one of those has.
Speaker 3: To be about comic books. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: That's that sounds more than that sounds more. Man, Thank
you so much for coming on again tonight. Any u
URLs or anything you want to point anybody at, any
any any hints about your new book that's coming up.
Speaker 5: So, the new book that's coming out, I again where
I'm still. It's very early in production. It will have
a lot of artwork in it. It's definitely not comic book,
but I am working on several comics as well. But yeah, no,
it won't be comic, but it will be heavily illustrated.
It will be uh, it will be very interesting. It
will be in the I can say it's in the
Bigfoot realm, but I think the it has broader cryptozoological
ramifications as well, and I think it will. I would
like for it not to be the last word on
the conversation, but the first word of.
Speaker 3: A new conversation. I'll say it that way. Man.
Speaker 2: You you whenever you release, I'm going to read as
soon as it drops, and I'm going to have you
on the show to talk about it as soon as
it's out there as well. I missed a lot of
comments at the end because I was so engrossed with you.
But to thank you to everybody who was listening, thank
you so much for coming on mate. It was a
pleasure talking to you. As always.
Speaker 4: Oh hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 3: I saw one thing before we go.
Speaker 5: Flat Rock says we that they have a Frank Herbert
Park down the street. He was from Tacoma. I did
not know that.
Speaker 4: That is awesome.
Speaker 2: I wonder it was he. He would have been around
when the Moreland is it happened?
Speaker 5: Nine fil think yes? Okay, real quick thing. My favorite
little trivia about the Dune series. The first I can't
I think it was just the first one, but the
first the first book or a publishing company to produce
Dune was Chiltern.
Speaker 4: Chiltern Publishing, and Chiltern.
Speaker 5: Was a They used automotive repair manuals. That was their
bread and that was their first and to my knowledge,
only fiction work that they put out. But I grew
up around Chilton manuals because my father was a mechanic.
So when I found out, it's like, oh there is
like for whatever reason, they're like, we're gonna go ahead
and publish this book that nobody else would take. Chilton
the Automotive Manual Repair Company produced to doing the first.
Speaker 3: Time, and that's why we have it.
Speaker 4: So wow, you know a.
Speaker 5: Little bit of connection to my world, to my you know,
growing up as a child, you know, surrounded by these
by all these manuals.
Speaker 2: So that's that's that's fascinating, man. I do, I do
love those type of manuals.
Speaker 5: It's not interesting at all.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna help, but you put.
Speaker 5: The mic in front of me, so I'm gonna I'm
you have to there has to be some kind of payoff.
Speaker 2: I guess that's that's fair enough man, that you can
talk about weed weed uh, folklore tales to me for
an hour and five and then you can talk about
automotive manually stuff for two minutes at the end.
Speaker 4: Hey, you know you gotta pay the paper somehow, I suppose.
Speaker 5: So, as always, it has been fun, and Donnie, you
are why we can't have nice things.
Speaker 4: But it's always great to see Ken.
Speaker 5: And Horrors and the chat and flat and everyone at
flat Rock and everyone.
Speaker 3: Else squashed my sam.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and those who haven't even you know what, even
if you didn't say anything.
Speaker 4: In chat, and if you're watching on replay, we love
you too.
Speaker 5: I mean, not as much as as I do. Dean
doesn't love you as much as I do. I do,
but you know, Jean's got some love for you.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying a little love. You've got a lot,
I got a lot.
Speaker 2: Well Man. Thank you again for joining with me. And
until I talk to you again, Jason, which hopefully will
be in the very near future, and until I talk
to everybody else out there, which will be same weird
time Thursday, nine pm Central next week, same weird network,
the sold radio Network. Please keep it weird.
Speaker 1: H