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Speaker 1: The paranormal, UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries. As you're listening to Talking

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Weird and Know from the Kevin Deep in the northwards

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your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.

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Speaker 2: Good evening on my fellow weirdos and weirdo So welcome

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to Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host,

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Dean Bertram, and as always, I'm delighted to have you

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here for the next hour or so. Whether you're watching

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live on Thursday nights nine pm Central, or watching and

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listening after that time only the YouTube or Facebook or

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ex so one of the many podcast platforms at the

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audio only version of the show drops on. Welcome wherever

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you are in this weird world. It's great to have you.

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I had a great Fourth of July with my wonderful

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daughter and my amazing girlfriend and my girlfriend's family. I

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hope you all enjoyed the fourth as well. I think

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it was my favorite ever, which was appropriate given that

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it was the two hundred and fiftieth. Maybe you want

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to drop eive in the chat where you got up

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to because I would love to see it. But I'm

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not going to just ramble on too much tonight because

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I much rather talk to my guest, who's one of

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my very best friends. He's an author, illustrator, and biblical

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paranormal researcher. He lives in Waxahatchie, Texas with his children

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and beautiful, long suffering wife. I wonder if I've got

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woxa Hatchie right this time. I have to ask him.

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Beyond his lifelong love of art and comics, his life

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has been consumed with the study of archaeology, cryptozoology, ufology,

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and astronomy in order to better understand the Bible, It's teachings,

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and the one behind its creation. So I'm delighted to

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welcome back to talking with my dear friend and of

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course my co host of the old Mysterious Library show,

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which I still miss to this day, the one and

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only mister Jason McLean.

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Speaker 3: Hi Dean, It's good to see you mate, How you

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doing good.

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Speaker 2: I loved Horace's comment, which I saw early on, is

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the peering of Jason Dean. Folklore or phenomenon should be fun.

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Speaker 3: Either way, It's both, horse, It's always both.

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Speaker 2: And of course Horace is riffing on the show titled Tonight,

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which is based on I think a talk that you've

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given on that folklore isn't phenomena.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct, so I'm looking forward to chat.

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Speaker 2: But that how was your fourth though, before we jump

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into the weeder aspects.

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Speaker 4: It's good. So here's the thing.

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Speaker 5: My eldest was born on the fourth of July, so

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that's his actual birthday.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, he.

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Speaker 5: Sells cars, so he couldn't do anything on his actual birthday,

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so we had to do it on the on the

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four on the fifth, actually that morning, and uh yeah,

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we celebrated it then with family. But yeah, it was

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It was a good weekend. I actually took this week

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off to get some other projects done, working on some

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online art classes for the kiddos and all that, so

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got a chance to get some other projects done this week.

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So it was like, well, he's getting you know, his

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birthdays this weekend. It's two fifty. Well we'll have some fun.

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So here we are. And that is what has allowed

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me to come and visit with you today.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad that I have. I'm always delighted to

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have you one. What's a Yankee doodle dandy in Texas?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 2: Because he's born on the fourth of July, what's the

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equivalent just to a Yankee doodle dandy or.

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Speaker 4: Is it that's it?

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Speaker 5: Like, there really isn't anything specifically for Texas when it

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comes to the fourth it's that's sort of a slightly

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overwriting factor.

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Speaker 2: And do you what what's the other big do you

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have a state national holiday? Like is it based around

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the Alamo or is it based it'd be based around

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the signing of the Declaration of Texas Independence.

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Speaker 3: I guess yeah, okay, so Texas become a nation.

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Speaker 5: Yeah know, so really it's honestly Sanja sint to day,

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but it's not anything that's overly. That's that's sort of

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overly we we because again we've already got so many

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uh you know, so many holidays. We kind of have

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to get some work done. So we basically just keep

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it with the with the major uh, with major holidays.

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Although you can blame Juneteenth on us, that was a Texas.

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Speaker 4: Thing, so.

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Speaker 2: Hu, well there you go. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, it's a it's a Texas thing and celebrates

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uh the I forget the name of the general who basically,

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you know, showed up in Galveston's like, hey, uh, slavery

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isn't a thing anymore so, but actually it was mostly celebrated.

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It's the celebration started actually here in Dallas.

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Speaker 2: Huh did that occur during the Civil War When you

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say the general who showed up in Galveston.

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Speaker 4: Well, well it's post Civil War because the Civil.

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Speaker 2: War you guys were were you guys were on the

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side of the South.

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Speaker 4: So yep, okay.

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Speaker 5: In fact, yeah, but again, just more Texas history because

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we we are genetically required to know it here in here,

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in the great State of Texas, and we can't say

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it any other way. A lot of the most important

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uh civil rights lawsuits and things that made up to

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the Supreme Court started here in Dallas.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, We've We've been a hot bed for a lot

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of that.

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Speaker 2: So I'm an American historian and I did not know

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the centrality of Texas.

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Speaker 5: In we we are important, We're important a lot of

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and a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: I know other things. I just didn't know that was

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one of the things that Texas Well.

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Speaker 5: There's no absolutely, it's in a lot again, World War

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two we were really important.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 5: With again, there's a reason Texas instruments and lackeed Martin

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and North from Grumm and.

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Speaker 4: Like they're all here.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's all World War even going back to

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as far as World War One. In fact, something I

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can tell you because I work in the industry for

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Title in Arlington and Graham Prairie, we have every home

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that has purchased has and when you're doing refinances, there

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is a writer on everything that basically just says, if

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you find a bomb, it's not our fault, because a

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lot of that area was used for bombing practice for

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World War Two, and we are still to this day

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digging up these practice bombs. They're about the size of

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footballs and they just have fins on the end and

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there's essentially a black powder coupsule at the end that

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didn't you know, a lot of them just were unexploded ordinance.

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We find it happens a lot less frequently now because

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you know, there's been a lot of heavy construction over

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the last thirty years that sort of clear a lot

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of that out. But yeah, they're still found pretty consistently.

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Speaker 2: See there's a movie to be made then.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, In fact, there was some unexploded ordinance here

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closer to where I live, like two three years ago.

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They found it was World War two era ordinance like Hey,

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we need the bomb squad here because we got an

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eighty year old ordinance live ordinance in here.

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Speaker 2: So good grief. It's funny to think that something so

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long ago that most, you know, people under the age

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of eighteen probably can't even give you the dates for

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is just it's still remnants of it are still showing

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up in suburban back outs in Texas.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's it's again. The history of the area

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is really interesting, like why certain things happened the way

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they did, and it's we don't we tend to just

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look at the peaks and valleys, like you know in

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the big stories that you sort of miss a lot

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of the the specific like why did Dallas develop that way?

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Speaker 4: Which is why I Actually.

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Speaker 5: If you like to know more, you can purchase Metroplex, Monsters, Dallas, Stevens, Fortworth, Gotman,

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and Other Tears of the Trinity River available wherever fine books.

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Speaker 4: And trashy rags are sold.

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Speaker 2: It's a great book. What's your favorite cryptid in there?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 5: Okay, honestly, my so it's not really my favorite cryptid,

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it's my favorite and it ties into what we're talking

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about tonight, is the Goatman of Dallas and very much

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were time to we're gonna talk about today, Actually I had.

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I went ahead and pulled old Alton Bridge for tonight's discussion.

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And it's so it's not specifically that goat men or

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the Dallas goat men are is my favorite cryptid, but

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rather it's what I learned studying and researching for that

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book around the goat man phenomenon that really changed a

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lot of my perspective on a lot of how this works.

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So I mean, personally would be the thing I.

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Speaker 3: Saw, right, that's you know, the living terroristaurs are my favorites.

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Speaker 5: But in many ways, I think the studying the Dallas

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goat man stuff really set me on a very I

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was already on that path, but has sent me into

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a very different way of looking at a lot of

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this phenomena, which is what the new book is on.

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So you know, a lot of a lot of good,

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a lot of going on, but it's into what we're

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talking about tonight, right, folklore is not phenomena. And let

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me start by saying, when by the end of this episode,

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a lot of people are going to go, well, yeah, right,

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but I think a lot of people will go I

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never thought of it that way. In fact, that's general

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if I generally everyone whoever who's ever heard this some

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version of this presentation about to give or the conversation

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we're going to have, that's the usually reaction I get

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is I hadn't thought of it that way, because there's

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a lot of things that we sort of assume in

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this conversation. But was there anything else you wanted to

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cover before we started talking about in salamanders?

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Speaker 2: And though I was just being hospitable like a host

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in Texas and having to be a chat on a

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chat on the front porch, so to speak.

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Speaker 4: How dare you, sir?

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Speaker 2: No, I want to get I want to get straight

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into it now. I think it's it's a fascinating topic

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and it's probably been we've probably discussed variance of it,

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particularly on the Oh Yeah, and very much missed at

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least by My Mysterious Library Show. But i'd love to.

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I'd love to. I'd love to jump into it with

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you and let you kind of set up our conversation.

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I guess.

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Speaker 5: So the easiest place to start is just by explaining

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what folklore is.

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Speaker 4: Because when people use the term.

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Speaker 5: Folklore, the the way most people use it colloquially is

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the idea that it's fake, right, that it's it's a

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it's a made up thing, or it's a fake story.

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But that's not what folklore is. In fact, there is

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a word that's called fake lore. Fake lore would be

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stuff like uh Peko's Bill, right, or Paul Bunyan, Paul Bunyan.

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It was like, oh, that's an American tradition entirely made up,

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entirely made up by will Wild Bill Hiccock and his

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traveling circuses like Peko's Bill, that was all made up

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and sold as traditional American folklore. So it's old fake lore,

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the slender Man, same thing. We know who made it up,

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we know when it was made up, but it's presented as.

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Speaker 4: If it's folk lore.

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Speaker 5: So folklore literally comes from it means folk of the people,

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or lore rather of the people, the folk right, the

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common men. From an academic perspective, in fact, let me

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just read this off so I don't miss it. But

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from an academic perspective, and this is an important serve

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of nuance here, it's the body of expressive culture shared

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by a particular group of people. Culture or subculture. This

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includes oral traditions. You know, like tales, legends, proverbs, poems, jokes,

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but also includes material culture that means like building styles.

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Technology also does this customary lore taking actions for folk beliefs.

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This would include folk religions, which is slightly it's a

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slightly different variant from religion, and it's more like think

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about how a religion is practiced in regional rituals.

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Speaker 4: That kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Festivals, even weddings are a form of folklore. In fact,

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this is one of those things that tends to choose

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a lot of people's cracker when I say it, but

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you'll when you when I say it, it'll make sense.

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Even science is a form of folklore, right, And what

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I mean by that is we believe as moderns that

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that science meaning the act of doing things in a

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you know what, we're using the scientific method of measurement, math,

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quantifying data, those those steps lead to beneficial outcomes and conclusions.

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That is, from an academic perspective, folklore. Telling your kids

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to brush their teeth twice today, that's folklore. Now again

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that's a strictly academic way of saying it. But the

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way most people are going to use it, and what's

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most useful for us is it is the beliefs of

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a culture, and that can again, it can be jokes,

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it can be material culture, technology, things like that. Where

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this applies to us is we often in this world,

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in this realm, we look at stories, we look at accounts,

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but then we also look at the lore.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: The thing is, though, what folklore tells you it is

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it's folklore is telling you about how a culture is

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interpreting a situation or phenomena. It is telling you how

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they view it as telling what they're telling you, what

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their worldview is. It's not telling you anything actually about

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the phenomena being addressed. And a great example of this

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would be the salamander. Let me go ahead and pull

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that up real quick. And I know this sounds insane

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to it now, but hear me out and I'm not.

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They didn't think it was something else. They thought the

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salamander you're thinking of, this is what they thought. As

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goes back to the Greeks, right, but they thought that

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they were that salamanders were created by fire and could

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survive and put out flames.

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Speaker 4: That's what that drawing is.

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Speaker 5: It's literally a salamanders surviving and just hanging out in

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fires depending on what time and culture you were in.

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Some people believe that they were made literally by glass

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blowers doing something incorrectly, that somehow that's what made the salamanders.

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Others thought they were born of fires that weren't put

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out correctly, that kind of thing. So they were seen

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as elemental creatures surrounding fire or involved in fire, and

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that's that doesn't tell us anything about salamanders.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: If you were to go back to the ancient Greeks

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or evil period and we're like, hey, what do you

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think about salamanders, and they tell you this, this doesn't

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tell you anything about salamanders. They're amphibians, right, But it

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tells you how they're processing this information, how they're looking

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at it, right. Same thing with peacocks. There was there

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was a time when some people thought peacocks, like their

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meat would never go bad and therefore you couldn't even

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eat peacocks because your liver couldn't process it. That is

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literally something people wrote about.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 5: At one point there was writing in the Mid Ages

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about them being the actual phoenix, and that they they

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didn't know how they were, that they were even created,

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like they didn't pro create normally, that they were some

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sort of weird hodgepodge of different of different animals. Again,

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none of that is about you know, we know these

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are animals that we know. But the folklore is telling

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you how they are thinking about things, how are they

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approaching things, how are they what is their worldview about

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how the world around them works. So folklore is not

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the phenomena itself, however, and this is the big thing,

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and this is where things get a little controversial, but

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it's a conversation that needs to be had. When we

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talk about the lore of an area, it's like, well,

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this is what the locals say about this, right, or

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this is the story that comes to us from this

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particular tribe. I hate to break it to you, but

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that's not what That's not a scientific discourse or understanding

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of whatever the phenomena is, be it paranormal, cryptologists, cripzoological

303
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or anything. What that is is the story of the

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people that are encountering this phenomena and how they're processing it,

305
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how they are interpreting it, how are they, how are

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how does their worldview accommodate what's what's happening here? That's

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what That's what folklore is telling you, and that is

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important right, But it's also not the phenomena itself. In

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the same way that how you know, the belief that

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men age that Middle Ages of glass blowers were somehow

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making salamanders all the time, right, doesn't tell you anything

312
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about salamanders, but it tells you what people thought about

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glass blowers, right that it was you know that this

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was dangerous and and and it's and so that's sort

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of the conversation we need to start having, is is

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that when we look at mythologies, when we look at lore,

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we need to understand what it's actually telling us and

318
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what it isn't telling us. It's not telling you anything

319
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necessarily about the phenomena, it doesn't mean there isn't interesting

320
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information in there to glean from it.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: For example, going back to the peacock, you know, conversation,

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they genuinely would have conversations right that that the cries

324
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we could drive someone insane. Now, anyone who has heard.

325
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Speaker 6: The screaching of a of a of a of a

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stupid peacock will tell you where that that that is one.

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Speaker 5: I get it, like, I understand where this is coming from,

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because I would be if I had them living on

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my property, I would definitely be tempted to make certain

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that they were no longer living on my property.

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Speaker 2: Well, I used to have guinea foul and that they

332
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don't enough to drive you insane. Oh yeah, similar kind

333
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of crazy bird sounds. I just quickly because I agree,

334
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as I do with with much of what you say.

335
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I do think sometimes, as you said, and my important

336
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just to look at that a little before we move on,

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that there can be genuine information. Yes, on folklore. I

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would think, for example that the focalore of fairy faith,

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which is one of my favorites of very extensive collection

340
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of stories and tales, and I suppose laws and prescriptions

341
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on how to deal with the other in Ireland, can

342
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probably teach us today more about the UFO phenomenon than

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any scientists employed by the government or any other modern

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scientific institution. I think sometimes within the tales of the folk,

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within the tales of people who have had experiences with

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the anomalous for hundreds of years and have built up

347
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legends and law around that, I think there are valuable

348
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pieces of truth in there about the law. So I

349
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think I think it can go both ways. I think

350
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you're right, some of it is clearly going to make

351
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you think, well, the salamander isn't going to live in

352
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fire and a peacock isn't going to drive you insane.

353
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That's nutty. But then when you hear about the type

354
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of behavior of the other is described in fairy law

355
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and apply it to UFO reports, the UFO reports, all

356
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of a sudden seeing to make more sense, at least

357
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in a broader historical context.

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Speaker 4: Right.

359
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Speaker 5: And that's what I'm saying is that there is And

360
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that is something that again we have to state is

361
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I'm not stating that folklore is not important. It is, right, However,

362
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it is important to recognize what it is in where

363
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it's coming from and why. Right When is folklore genuinely

364
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important in actually giving you data you can work with, right,

365
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And I would suggest that it isn't necessarily a story.

366
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Speaker 4: Within the fame.

367
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Speaker 5: But when you take that step back and you can

368
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look across cultures, right, and the themes that keep popping

369
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up and the advice that keeps being given, again, you

370
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can there is I don't think there is a culture

371
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on the planet that wouldn't give you some version of

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this advice. If you're walking in the woods on a

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trail and you hear a friend or a family member

374
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call your name.

375
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Speaker 4: No, you didn't.

376
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Speaker 5: Right, every culture is gonna some is gonna have some

377
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version of that advice, right, same thing with don't eat

378
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food given to you.

379
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Speaker 4: By these by the other.

380
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Speaker 5: Right, that is a near cultural universal. So in being

381
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able to take that step back and say, let's look

382
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at the folklore, let's look at where these there's these

383
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points of overlap, and that's important, and I think there's

384
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there's you know, there's value there. At the same time,

385
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that doesn't necessarily mean that was well, it looks like

386
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,359
a bigfoot over here, and according to some tales over here,

387
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they're you know, short people over here, the you know,

388
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the elves are actually normal human size. Over here, they

389
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look like they've got antlers and you know, and dear feet.

390
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,359
It's not that those again, those things are cultural. So

391
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and as long as we're as long as we're not

392
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trying to use folklore taxonomically, right.

393
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Speaker 2: No, I agree with all of that. I wonder though,

394
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if the phenomenon becomes the thing or because of the

395
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way the phenomenon operates, Right, So when we look at

396
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:07,799
things we know in the physical world, I think you're

397
00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:13,480
absolutely correct. The misunderstandings of you know, the nature of

398
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a salamander or the nature of a peacock, for example.

399
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,599
But I wonder if there is an anomalous phenomenon, which

400
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,960
I think both you and I agree, something anomalous is

401
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,079
going on with some of the reports that people have.

402
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,400
I wonder then if the focal or, While you're quite

403
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,319
I think you're quite correct in saying the focal or

404
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,039
is not the phenomenon, I wonder if sometimes the phenomenon

405
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,839
doesn't become the focalore when by saying that, I mean

406
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it doesn't put on the mask of the focal or,

407
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,720
it doesn't put on the appearance of the folklore. And

408
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,480
that could be through a number of different processes. It

409
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:51,279
could be through just our own psychological training in what

410
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,960
to expect something that we encounter walking home late at night,

411
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if we encounter in a dark field. Or it could

412
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be that the phenomenon itself leaves off those expectations and

413
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,519
it just presents like a camouflage. Or it could be

414
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that it's conscious and it kind of understands what we

415
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,279
expect to hear. Or it could be that through our

416
00:23:09,319 --> 00:23:12,880
own workings with folkal I know focal ortists talk about

417
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,920
something called a stension, right, and that means when you

418
00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:20,200
try to relive the legend or the focal or yourself

419
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,039
and the most the most I suppose probably today, the

420
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:27,839
most common variant of that is probably legend tripping, at

421
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,519
least in our field, which was a shameless plug for

422
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,039
my new web series. You just go to home movie

423
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,519
legend trip dot com.

424
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 5: You should, and by the way, everyone should go and

425
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,000
watch the videos. They're short, but they are a lot

426
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,759
of fun. They're very I love the aesthetic that you're

427
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,759
that you're going with.

428
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Speaker 2: Man, you've been so supportive to sharing, and I can't

429
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,359
thank you enough. But in many ways that's what people

430
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,200
are doing there, or even people like you know, they

431
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,599
go to Roswell the Hope to find a piece of

432
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:55,480
the saucer still out in the desk, or they go

433
00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,480
to Area fifty one to follow, you know, in the

434
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,960
footpaths of bobblers are to go out to the black

435
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,480
mail box and to see a UFO in the sky.

436
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:10,440
So sometimes folklore becomes Sometimes folklore almost through our own action,

437
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,440
starts to manifest itself in our reality.

438
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Speaker 4: I am.

439
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 5: It's almost like you've read my book and knew where

440
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,079
I was going with this. Yeah, well, so here's the thing.

441
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:29,079
I kind of already addressed that in hmm Metroplex Monsters,

442
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,400
Dallas Demon's Fort Worth, Goatman and other tales of the

443
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,759
trick the Turney River.

444
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah again, you meet you up coming on.

445
00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:38,839
Speaker 5: I love that book available wherever fine, fine books and

446
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,599
trashy rags are sold.

447
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,839
Speaker 4: That's the that's the shtick. I gotta do the shtick.

448
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,519
Speaker 5: But Old Alton Bridge is probably the most famous goat

449
00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:51,240
man bridge in Texas right now. The thing is, we

450
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,880
have a lot of these, so but we'll talk about

451
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,359
Old Alton Bridge here for a second. I've been there.

452
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,000
It's nothing special. It's an Iron Trust bridge. There are

453
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,720
the Iron Trust bridges all over the Dallas.

454
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Speaker 4: Fort Worth Metroplex. They they just are.

455
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 5: And each one of them has a goat man legend.

456
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,240
And there's goat variations of goat men legends around creeks

457
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,880
all over the DFW. And the thing that I was

458
00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:23,680
shocked by the most is we can kind of see

459
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,519
the progression of how the story goes. Now when you're

460
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:31,960
dealing with the story everyone's heard today, right, the one

461
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,680
that everyone points to is it was a as the

462
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,559
old Alton Bridge. Goat Man was a black man who

463
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:42,480
was successful. He owned a goat farm on the outskirts

464
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:46,519
of town because obviously, you know, this was early twenties,

465
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,160
he couldn't live in town, but he was very successful.

466
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:53,240
And so a bunch of klansmen went out there, killed

467
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:56,759
his family and hanged him from the Iron Trust Bridge,

468
00:25:56,839 --> 00:25:59,920
and his head came off, and now he is a

469
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,319
in his body. His goat went out found a found

470
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,559
one of the goats. Well, so so let me rephrase this.

471
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:10,359
That's I'm sorry, I'm mixing up the story. He dies,

472
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,359
and so he was called the goat man, and now

473
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,440
he's haunting the area.

474
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 4: Right.

475
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 5: However, there's an older story where it's a white guy

476
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:21,480
who was who actually was a criminal who killed his

477
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,400
own family, and he was punished by being hanged off

478
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,559
of the the Iron Trust Bridge and his head was

479
00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:32,839
pulled off, and so he went and so the body

480
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,519
went and found a goat, ripped its head off, put

481
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:41,640
it on there, and he's haunting the area. The story

482
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,200
changes with the culture. It was very and in what

483
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,880
we've what I found with a lot of these is

484
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,039
it's very clearly stories to tell kids essentially to keep

485
00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:54,079
them away from the bridge right at night, and so

486
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,759
if you go out there at night, goat Man's gonna

487
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:56,000
get you.

488
00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:57,839
Speaker 4: Uh say uh.

489
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 5: The Iron Trust Bridge specific is even though there is

490
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:04,960
one in Italy, Texas just about fifteen minutes south in

491
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:06,680
May and it's Italy not Italy.

492
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:09,039
Speaker 4: Get it right.

493
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 5: Anyway, The story is about the train tracks specifically right,

494
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,519
and that the kid, the spirit of the kid who

495
00:27:19,559 --> 00:27:22,359
who also now has a goat head in some versions

496
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,839
of the story, was killed by a train because unfortunately,

497
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:28,880
when trains were new, that was a big deal. So

498
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,119
they were trying. They were these stories that were initially

499
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,880
designed to tell kids to get off of the train tracks.

500
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,960
But the goat imagery doesn't always match one hundred percent

501
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:44,839
until much later on with Old Alton Bridge. It's clear

502
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,759
in the sixties, right when you have the civil rights

503
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,960
going on, the it goes from being a white guy

504
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,799
who is a murderer to a sympathetic black man who's

505
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,359
killed by the klan. So you can we now have

506
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,039
good guys, we have bad guys, and it's like this,

507
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:02,720
this is a tragic story. There's also an alternative version

508
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,839
that exists before the bridge.

509
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 4: Was even formed.

510
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,799
Speaker 5: It was even made there was an escaped slave who

511
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,599
was hanged off of a tree overhanging the.

512
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:13,799
Speaker 4: Creek.

513
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: It's interesting. It's interesting too, and I'm just going to

514
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,200
cut it again and then floor back to you because

515
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,680
we're talking about bridges and goat man's story of course

516
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:25,480
in older traditions, and I'm thinking about a fairy tale

517
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,680
that every kid would have been read when there's a

518
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,720
billy goat gruff story about a troll who's under the

519
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,720
bridge and it's the goats which are fed to the

520
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,759
troll to appease the troll. Within Scandinavian or Germanic folkal

521
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,400
so there seems to be some interconnection with that as well,

522
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200
a troll goat niction and then the goat man stories

523
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,440
that are part of you know the story you're telling

524
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,079
me now.

525
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 5: Well and what's even and again to make that even more,

526
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:53,119
there is a tradition of creeks and rivers going all

527
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:54,720
the way back to Greece where you have to say

528
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,279
a god to guard it's his name three times. Things

529
00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:01,720
like that spirits in and around crossings. It's a very union.

530
00:29:01,759 --> 00:29:04,319
It's again one of those cultural universals and one of

531
00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:07,160
the things that you can do at these bridges is

532
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,759
you can drive up to them, you can honk three times,

533
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:12,960
turn off your car right, and the goat man will

534
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,079
appear and tear it up. If you're talking about old

535
00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,640
Foamy and in Johnson County. So but every version has

536
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:21,960
like hey you if you if you honk three times

537
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:25,480
or you knock three times, right, that's a very very

538
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,240
common story. But the thing I noticed while I was

539
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,359
working on the book was they all had the same

540
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,240
things about what's seen, right. And what I mean is

541
00:29:36,279 --> 00:29:39,000
they'll they'll tell you or everyone will say, yeah, if

542
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:42,279
you if you go there, like people see red glowing eyes,

543
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:47,480
the creature haunts there, and you can hear the sound

544
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:50,400
of goats sometimes, or it'll throw trash and tires that

545
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:54,400
you know, it's the tires that caught me every time, right, right,

546
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:58,319
And and that's when I realized, like, hold on, I'm

547
00:29:58,359 --> 00:30:02,160
seeing the same the exact fact, same language used all

548
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:08,039
the way back to the the Lake Worth Monster event

549
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:19,039
with Jim Mars's reporting. Hold On, Bigfoot fans should recognize

550
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:21,799
this book right. Really got this from the granddaughter of

551
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:26,599
the of Sally and Clark. But she the importance of

552
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:31,000
this book is she saved and preserved the story of

553
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:36,720
Lakeworth Monster, particularly the accounts published in the newspaper by

554
00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:38,960
Jim Mars, the late Jim Mars.

555
00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: And again he passes a conspiracy theorist and euthologist. And

556
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:45,559
the only books that his I writer, his conspiracy and

557
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,880
his phote books. I haven't I didn't know he did

558
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:48,960
big foot stuff as well.

559
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing. He was a reporter. That's the thing.

560
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:55,279
Speaker 5: He was just a reporter. He was just reporting on

561
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,039
the event that there was heard. It was big, big news,

562
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:01,559
and so a lot of that came on, you know,

563
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:03,680
that hit him later on in his career. In fact,

564
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,079
I know several people who were friends of his, because

565
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:08,720
he just passed relatively recently.

566
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,119
Speaker 3: It's been the last twenty years.

567
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 5: But I knew people who I know people who knew him.

568
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:14,519
Speaker 4: I never met him.

569
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,279
Speaker 2: I wish I had. I saw him speak at an

570
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:19,119
event back in the day. But you know, you don't

571
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,240
want to go up and be like just a fanboy.

572
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,160
You want to ask real questions, but you don't want

573
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,640
to be with a crew of fifty people all taking

574
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,559
on his lips quickly too. Flat Rockland or aka matt Auckland.

575
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:32,559
In fact, there's a few comments by corporate questions as

576
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,440
well as from Horrors that I'll put up later, But

577
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:38,440
he made the point of saying, after reading Joshua Cutch

578
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,599
and Stuff, I look at bridges or any river crossing much. Yes, differently.

579
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,680
I'm not sure what book Joshua talks about that in,

580
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:46,480
but his books are fantastic. I was going to make

581
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:49,400
a similar point though, of course, saying that near where

582
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,039
I am Sam Manton, my amazing girlfriend who's watching and

583
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:54,599
eye before we did home movie Legendship. We did a

584
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,559
number of legendships locally just for fun with our kids.

585
00:31:57,599 --> 00:31:59,759
And there's a Bloody Bride bridge where there was meant

586
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:01,759
to be a bride ghost. There was I think boy

587
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:05,759
Scout Lane bridge or something where a bus of boy

588
00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:07,920
Scouts was meant to go off the and die, and

589
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,000
if you parked your car there at night you could

590
00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:14,720
be pushed and throughout all of history, I think, as

591
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,400
I mentioned the Billy Goat Gruff story before, as you

592
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:21,400
mentioned in those stories, I guessing a bridge is like

593
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,480
kind of a liminal space, Like you can think of

594
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,079
the headless Horsemen, where you get across the bridge, you'll

595
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,200
be okay. You can think about the idea of running

596
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,640
water in fairy traditions where the fairies can't cross the water,

597
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,920
so the bridge might be a safe havevor And it's

598
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,200
also a liminal space. It's a space that crosses over

599
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,519
the water, kind of in the air, between two sides

600
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:47,559
of land. So it's that's super fascinating that it doesn't

601
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:50,759
seem a matter where on the planet in your area.

602
00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:53,680
It seems to be that the idea of a goat

603
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,000
man became associated with it. Yes, but I suspect that

604
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,519
wherever we went in this planet would be able to

605
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:04,279
find bridges with strange stories. And before I throw it

606
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,680
entirely back to you, I will ask you a question

607
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,000
from Flat Rookland aka Matt Auckland, who's a good friend

608
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,079
of mine. He's been on the show. He says, Jason,

609
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,799
or all the towns around you just goofy sauting Deans

610
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,200
Dean still cnu't pronounce your your town.

611
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 4: Correctly yet, Well, that's my design. That's that's how we do.

612
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:21,240
That's how we do.

613
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:26,319
Speaker 5: Like it is Italy, Texas, but we again to pronounce

614
00:33:26,359 --> 00:33:31,119
it correctly. It's Italy. But uh and again we tell

615
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,359
this again. My favorite joke about walks Acchy. In fact,

616
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:37,359
I it's funny. I grew up fifteen minutes north of here,

617
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:40,279
and walks a Hactche was a place I went to

618
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:42,839
every once in a while, you know, to buy paintball supplies,

619
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:45,839
like I just didn't care. Like Cedar Hill, walks a

620
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:47,720
Haatche had more cows than people when I was a kid.

621
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,359
But the jokes there were two guys walking through walks

622
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,160
at you. They're trying to they couldn't decide if it

623
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,240
was waksa Hatchie or wax a Hatchie, And so they

624
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,000
walk into dairy Queen. They're like, ma'am, can you tell

625
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:03,160
us how to pronounce.

626
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,079
Speaker 4: Where we are?

627
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:11,559
Speaker 5: And she looks and says, very slowly, dairy Queen. So yeah,

628
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,199
trust me, this is it's the thing. Don't even get

629
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,880
me started on the differences between Nakodochis, which is in

630
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,559
Texas and nakadish which is in Louisiana.

631
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: That's all.

632
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 5: Oh, but Bear County. Don't even ask me how Bear

633
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,079
County is spelled.

634
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,159
Speaker 2: It's it's it's for a bar when he was barely three.

635
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 5: Nope, it's b e x a R. It's it's it's

636
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,400
from the Spanish bahar and it's bear, but you can

637
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,519
always tell whenever somebody like when you've already and sadly

638
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:41,599
when you've alreay happened. Members like it's in Bexar County

639
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:42,239
and I'm like, it is.

640
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:43,119
Speaker 3: Not Bexar County.

641
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: It's just it hurt. It hurt a lot. Yeah. Trust,

642
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:47,840
there's whole.

643
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,119
Speaker 5: Videos dedicated to how Texans say things towns. You're not

644
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:54,440
going to get any of them right, Like.

645
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: You should try to pronounce some things in Wisconsin. Man's crazy.

646
00:34:57,559 --> 00:34:59,559
But I'm going to throw to two horror statements in

647
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:02,760
questions Harris Smith, who is Professor Emeris of Astronomy and

648
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,960
Physics at Michigan State University as well as a good

649
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,480
friend of both mine and Jason's and the show. He

650
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:11,400
suggests maybe Dena Jason should have quarterly mysterious library episodes

651
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,079
of talking weird. I'm totally damned for.

652
00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:16,119
Speaker 4: That, Horace. Have you been talking to Doug Hijack?

653
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: That would be great.

654
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,599
Speaker 5: I keep I keep barking at a friend of mine,

655
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,400
like every time we talk. I'm like, hey, uh, you

656
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,320
you propose to your to your girlfriend there? Yet he's

657
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,599
like you and my dad, Horace, you and my dad

658
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:35,800
in Doug, You and Doug Man, what's going on here?

659
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: Ah, and here's a question from Horace to what we'll

660
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,440
get through. Horace's too once at the moment. But Horace

661
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,400
and Flat if you want to ask anything else, please

662
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,440
a free uh, he asks, this is Horace again. When

663
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,679
particular focal or stories are set down in books or videos,

664
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,360
doesn't make the story more or less open to change

665
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,440
in future tellings.

666
00:35:55,119 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 5: Okay, it's let me use a metaphor as an example,

667
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,920
because it's a it's yes and no. What I would

668
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,000
say is it allows us to It allows for a

669
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:14,480
particular telling to be more universally known, but it also

670
00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:18,920
allows us to track the changes better. Right, Spider Man,

671
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,960
his origin has been retold multiple times over the years,

672
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:25,280
right in the comics, and it's like, forget about the movies,

673
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,599
but the comics, and it keeps changing a little bit

674
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:30,880
every time because they had to move it from the

675
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,920
sixties and they have to keep bringing it up sometimes.

676
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: Doctor Octopost is.

677
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 5: Now included in the event, and it went from just

678
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,119
a random spider that happened to get he radiated biting

679
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:46,079
him to it was an accident and there was an

680
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,559
actual explosion. So the story keeps changing to fit the

681
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:52,719
cultural need in time, and then when they did a

682
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,039
reboot with the Ultimate Universe, it became a genetically modified

683
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,800
Spider right. It was no longer radiation being the big buggaboo,

684
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:01,280
came genetic modification.

685
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: To just just ask you quickly and then I'll let

686
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,639
you get back to that. I can't help because I

687
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:06,880
was anything about the other day, because I'm letting my

688
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,719
daughter finally watch some of the MCU movies, and some

689
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,559
of them are great, some are just junk. But is

690
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,079
there stuff You can see the canon and you go, okay, well,

691
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:17,119
this is the real story. I don't care that somebody

692
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:19,199
wrote this in the nineties. This is the one that

693
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:22,719
or I don't care that you know a character used

694
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,480
to be like this and now characters like that's the

695
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:27,039
original one is always going to be my character.

696
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,199
Speaker 4: Here's the thing.

697
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 5: You You've opened a can canon of worms with that one.

698
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 4: In the comic space. I assure you.

699
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 5: What I would say is, if this is sort of

700
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,880
the this is gonna sound like I'm wincing out on it,

701
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,400
but I'm not. If someone had said this, I forget who,

702
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,960
I forget what what comic artists said this or writers said,

703
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,199
they said, canon is the thing that sticks, right, It's

704
00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:59,480
the thing. So every there's always gonna be retcons. There's

705
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:05,320
always going to be changes to meet. You know, we're

706
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,880
talking about a character that has like a sixty year history, right,

707
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,480
Superman's over seventy five. I think he's maybe eighty years

708
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:13,599
old now, right. I mean, like we have characters coming

709
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,239
back to the thirties, They're going to have to be

710
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,000
changes that are made. And canon is technically anything that

711
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:23,920
happens in the main line. But again, when that main

712
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,079
line is fifty years old or sixty years old, you're

713
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:30,320
always gonna have to update. So canon are things that stick.

714
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:35,159
And because there's been such a long history, now it's like, well,

715
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:38,000
this is what happened during this time, and that's been

716
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:41,159
retconned out, or it's been it's or there's been retconn

717
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,039
that nuanced those events into something else, right, because you

718
00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:46,840
kind of have to grow and evolve and you have

719
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,880
to allow room for it. So canon is thing are

720
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:55,039
things that stick. But the thing about any story is

721
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,679
there does have to be a cultural touchdown, Like it

722
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,599
has to appeal to us on a huge human level.

723
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 4: Right.

724
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 5: The reason the original Star Wars spoke to so many people,

725
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:07,480
and partly the extended universes. Those are people who are

726
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:11,280
interested in telling stories that worked and spoke to the

727
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,559
audience right, that met those cultural needs. Superman, Spider Man,

728
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:18,599
the X Men, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings. These

729
00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:22,400
are all modern mythologies in the same way. It's a

730
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,199
little different, but it really does feel the same cultural

731
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:33,960
space that most mythologies have. Always Tarzan is also in conan.

732
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:39,559
Those are cultural touchstones. The Cowboy, right, that's the mythic hero,

733
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,000
that's our version of the night. And so these stories

734
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:49,440
have mythic power and cultural cohesion. That's why we do them.

735
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,199
It's why we tell them a thousand years ago. It's

736
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:54,719
going to be something else, right, It's going to be

737
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:59,000
even though they have more in a way, and this

738
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:01,719
is it's like, well that weren't you know, wasn't Zeus

739
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,239
and Jupiter, you know, Yolgamesh? Was that tied into their religion?

740
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,039
Speaker 4: Yes?

741
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 5: On a cultural level, yes, absolutely, and on a religious

742
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,760
level also, However, the cultural impact is is the same

743
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,079
as these stories.

744
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: Okay, do you think it's problematic for us now though,

745
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,920
that we accelerate so quickly, like if you were if

746
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,039
you were you know, a Greek in you know, I

747
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:29,400
don't know two thousand BC or you know, five hundred BC,

748
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:32,239
you probably thought pretty much the same things about things,

749
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,000
do you know what I mean? I shouldn't use those

750
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,760
figures because they don't know what I will say with

751
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,360
periods where your belief is very similar. Well today, as

752
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,000
you mentioned, since the creation of many of these Marvel characters,

753
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,119
you know, in the sixties. I'm lucky because I bowed

754
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:50,199
out of the comic universe in the late eighties. So

755
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,760
my cannon is the canon, you know what I mean? Yeah,

756
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,039
that was the original story. I don't have to have

757
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:57,880
a different Nick Fury, a different Spider Man, a different Thaw,

758
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,639
a different this, a different that. I know, the story

759
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,239
of the Marvel universe inside an house. Yeah, and I

760
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,000
don't need to reimagine it. But it's always interesting watching

761
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,559
a Marvel universe moving going. No, that's just so wrong. Yeah, well,

762
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:11,519
of course it's probably happened in the comic book already,

763
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:12,559
but I just haven't read the comic.

764
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 5: Book for right exactly or how are the modifications they've

765
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,280
made from the story. So and actually this is going

766
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,559
to bring us back to where I wanted to go

767
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:21,800
with uh with the goat man anyway. And this is

768
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,159
important because we have this idea that there's the story

769
00:41:26,159 --> 00:41:29,639
of Gilgamesh, right, or there's the Epicaal. No, there's multiple.

770
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,239
It's not that everyone had Like if you lived in

771
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,960
a town that you had the same cultural stories for

772
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,400
a thousand years, you would have Now, they would definitely

773
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,079
stay around longer, right, they they weren't necessarily updated every

774
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,039
generation like they are now.

775
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 4: One percent.

776
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 5: I do think that is a The lack of stability

777
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:55,599
is a problem, right, The lack of a cultural canon

778
00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:56,679
is a problem.

779
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 4: They just is.

780
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:01,599
Speaker 5: But there was a lot more diversity and stories did

781
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:07,440
change also in the you know, back in the olden days,

782
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:10,840
ye olden days.

783
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 4: Views on.

784
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 5: You know, a lot of these stories were regional as well, right,

785
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,119
every different city states had different versions of those stories,

786
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,119
and they did grow, and they did change, and gods

787
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:23,320
would fall out of favor and knew gods would replace

788
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,960
them and those stories would get switched out. So in

789
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,119
many ways, it's act what we see. We're just seeing

790
00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:30,519
it faster, right. We can kind of see it happen

791
00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:33,039
in real time. We can see the folklore grow and

792
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:36,639
evolve in real time, and so it is different in

793
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:39,559
that regards, But that is what happened about, you know,

794
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,239
two thousand years ago in Greece and Egypt and China

795
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,679
and everywhere else. It's the same process.

796
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: It wouldn't happen.

797
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: It probably wouldn't have changed in your lifetime, though, right

798
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,800
unless there was a political cue, like there wasn't Egypt

799
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,519
in one time, where they decided we're getting rid of

800
00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:55,079
all the old gods, have one God, and then there

801
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:56,920
was a cue back the other way fifty years later,

802
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,880
we're getting rid of the one God and only having enough.

803
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,719
So there were those kinds of but usually you were

804
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,599
safe in your lifetime that your legends wouldn't change. So

805
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:07,000
while I agree, I think a lot of these stories

806
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,360
fell a cultural void for people who mightn't have a

807
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,039
religion or a fairy faith system or a belief system

808
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:16,440
that they lean into. I think you're absolutely right. It

809
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,760
is I don't know, problematic might be the wrong word,

810
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,000
but to me, it's strange to see the stories of

811
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:27,559
my youth rewritten and refabricated in such historically small amount

812
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:31,360
of time. It's just a weird experience to see the

813
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,480
same heroes presented, And I think politics probably crept into

814
00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:40,079
is like we were talking about in ancient Egypt as well.

815
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,679
But I think those political upheavals would be incredibly big

816
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,800
changes that people would be really you know, it'd be devastating. Well,

817
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,960
perhaps because we realize these things are fictional, they aren't

818
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,599
as big. But back I could go down this, we

819
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,440
could do a whole comic book show. Maybe that's for

820
00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:58,880
a mysterious library when we retake it up. Like Corra said,

821
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:01,440
but back to your back to the points that you

822
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,480
were making, which I think are far more important on

823
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,400
focalore and phenomenon. Let's slide back into this, so I'll

824
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,719
throw it back to you so all this time.

825
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, here's so, here's where this all kind of joins

826
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:15,920
back up. Right in the same way that we can

827
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,239
see Spider Man going from being an open air radiation

828
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:25,519
experiment to a radiation accident to genetic modification, you know,

829
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,079
with the Spider we see that happen with the with

830
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:33,360
the goat man, right, because all of these iron Trust

831
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:39,440
Bridges had their own pre existing hanged man's lore that

832
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:43,920
wasn't necessarily tied to goat people. Originally some of them were,

833
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:47,280
some of them were, but not all of them, but

834
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:54,760
what happened with the Worth monster event, right, Jim Mars late,

835
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,639
you know, takes the goat man moniker from one of

836
00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:02,519
the early from one of the early eyewitnesses, and then

837
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,320
everyone starts calling everything goat man. And now the goat

838
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,440
man replaces the monikers of some of these pre existing

839
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:13,440
stories going all the way back to eighteen hundreds, the

840
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,480
initial settling of the land, people talk about the monster

841
00:45:16,679 --> 00:45:21,079
or the creature that would haunt these the tributaries and

842
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:25,920
creaks in the area, and so once it became the

843
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,360
goat man, now everything's the goat man, and stories start

844
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,280
to grow and change and evolved to accommodate this new information.

845
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,880
And literally they're taking they used Jim Mars's reports and

846
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,840
they say, this is what is seen at these things.

847
00:45:41,119 --> 00:45:44,079
And when you talk to people who were like I

848
00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:46,719
was here, here's what happened to me, it's very different,

849
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,199
very clearly paranormal. Right, It's not a goat man that

850
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,639
people see, except for one.

851
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 4: We'll come back to it.

852
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 5: So what I notice is there's a difference between what

853
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,199
people say other people see and what people say they've

854
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,159
seen are two very different things. And that's where the

855
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,760
that's where the the folklore aspect starts coming in again.

856
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,639
The folklore is not the phenomena. The phenomena is real.

857
00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:10,760
There was always something. There's why people were talking about

858
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,880
the monster or the creature. And they had hanged manned

859
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:20,639
ghost stories that then got reshuffled in real time because

860
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:25,840
of the Lake Worth goat man event that Jim Mars

861
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,679
was writing about. So so in that way, in the

862
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,639
same way that Spider Man goes through that evolution and

863
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,039
you know, his story changes and evolves in the same way,

864
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:39,559
we have the same story sort of happening to the

865
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:41,320
goat man. And here's where it gets really weird. Trying

866
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,719
to keep it from falling. I don't know I'm gonna

867
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,960
win that fight. But here's where things get really interesting.

868
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,360
There is a goat man of white Rock Lake. And

869
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,599
this goes to what you were saying, people see an

870
00:46:54,639 --> 00:47:00,159
actual goat man at white Rock Lake. What I'm like,

871
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:04,719
great contributions to zoology is adding the second story attached

872
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,119
to an actual human being name right, again beyond folklore

873
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:14,519
eyewitness account. So I've added the second story of people

874
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:16,840
seeing a goat man. But here's where things get really

875
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,519
really weird. There's plenty of So the way all of

876
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:23,239
the lakes around here made is we dam up a tributary,

877
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,880
right all that's going to the Turney River. We dam

878
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:29,840
up the creeks and the rivers and things to make

879
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,039
these lakes. But particularly inside of Dallas, you have to

880
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:38,280
have spillways and things. Obviously well one of them there.

881
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,679
There are several accounts of people seeing these creatures that

882
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,599
are clearly where the tributaries are connected to White Rock Lake,

883
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:54,440
but the creature doesn't have horns. And even at old

884
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,519
Alton Bridge someone saw a thing about a like a

885
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:00,159
quarter mile down the road, maybe half of my out

886
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:00,639
down the road.

887
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,199
Speaker 4: It doesn't look like a goat man.

888
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 5: But there does seem to be a connection between what

889
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,440
that person saw what this other person saw off of

890
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,679
white Rock Lake. So it does there does seem to

891
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:15,079
be a connection to the story and these creatures taking

892
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:20,119
or these entities taking a form that it seems to

893
00:48:20,159 --> 00:48:22,480
be connected to the mythology of the area.

894
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:23,679
Speaker 4: So the question.

895
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,119
Speaker 5: Becomes and I think in your point is very well made,

896
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:30,800
and I think it's it's an excellent point. Yes, the

897
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,159
folklore is not describing the phenomena, but the phenomena does

898
00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:37,840
seem to respond to the folks. Right, people do see

899
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,599
Brownie's what you would call a brownie, Right, people do

900
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:44,480
see goat men. People do see these things. They do

901
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:51,039
see you know, La lachusa, right, and La La Tusa

902
00:48:51,079 --> 00:48:53,280
does show up. Now that's a little more complicated because

903
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,400
it's connected to witchcraft, et cetera. But the people have

904
00:48:57,599 --> 00:49:02,920
seen slender Man. Question becomes are we are they taking

905
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,159
this form? Or are our stories? And I think this

906
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:08,239
is a good place to sort of start wrapping up

907
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:14,119
this concept. Are our stories allowing them access to us?

908
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,639
Meaning most things like well, they're taking a form that

909
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:18,960
we would imagine, or this is how our brain is,

910
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:24,159
you know, we're culturally programmed to process this thing. And

911
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,239
I think those are those are good interpretations, But I

912
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,400
think the other version we need to we need to

913
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,119
think of. And this was brilliantly played out. And I

914
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:32,960
think it was the last Nightmare. It was like the

915
00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:37,159
last Robert England Freddy Krueger before they shut everything down

916
00:49:37,519 --> 00:49:42,199
originally where it was a movie within a movie, and

917
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,079
it's what it's honestly my favorite one because it's it

918
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:48,760
changes up the entire concept.

919
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,199
Speaker 4: It's like, yes, this is all.

920
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:55,559
Speaker 5: These are all movies. But and they even had Wes

921
00:49:55,639 --> 00:49:58,840
Craven in the movie write in the script and he explains, like,

922
00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:04,760
we tell these scary stories to keep this thing trapped

923
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,840
within the story, and if we don't, it gets out right.

924
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,960
It becomes sort of this cultural connect And when she

925
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,480
ultimately fights and kills the thing, right, when it's in

926
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,440
its layer, it has the face of credit of Freddy,

927
00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:22,639
but it's on a serpent, right, and we see elements

928
00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:27,519
of the gingerbread house, right, and all these elements from

929
00:50:27,559 --> 00:50:31,159
all of these stories that humanity has been telling for

930
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,079
thousands of years, and she kills, and of course the

931
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,960
end of the movie is Wes Craven closing a script

932
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,079
or clothes that he was writing, and you're like, the

933
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:43,199
entire premise is that he was doing this. So the

934
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,280
question then becomes, not is this thing taking its form

935
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,239
or is our brain making it look like that in

936
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,719
order to accommodate our cultural expectations? Is our stories? Are

937
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,679
our stories giving a pathway for these things to enter

938
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,440
into our universe and interact with us? And so it's you,

939
00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:08,480
it's taking on that mantle because that's the story we know,

940
00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:10,519
and that's the story we tell, which is why it

941
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:17,119
changes in does look like a brownie here, a sayer there,

942
00:51:18,119 --> 00:51:21,239
a big foot over here for some again not all cases,

943
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,280
but maybe that's what it looks like over here, A

944
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,480
dog man over there, a la lachusa whatever, a slender man.

945
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,880
Are our stories interacting with it on that level? So again,

946
00:51:32,639 --> 00:51:34,840
folklore is not phenomena, but there does seem to be

947
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,920
some kind of a feedb lo looper. Maybe the phenomena

948
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,840
wants us to think it's the folklore.

949
00:51:42,199 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: That is interesting. I think I think the most interesting question, well,

950
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,840
I think it's the second most interesting question. I think

951
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,599
the second most interesting question is if you and I

952
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,239
correct in our assessment of all of this, and I

953
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,559
think we are. The second most interesting question is how

954
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:02,159
does the mechanism work? Why is it and how is

955
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:06,360
it that the phenomenon seems to present back to us

956
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,920
either what we individually expect or what we culturally expect.

957
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,440
I think the most interesting question is what does it

958
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,639
actually tell us about reality? That I think the most

959
00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:21,840
interesting question transcends the experience of the projection of the

960
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,639
folklore back to us through whatever the phenomenon is, but

961
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,639
our what does our interaction with that phenomenon and that

962
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,079
interaction with our focal or in some thing which puts

963
00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:36,599
on the mask or presents itself back to us. What

964
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:38,760
does that teach us about our reality? And I think

965
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,599
that's one of the things which we don't often even

966
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:47,440
question because the space is so obsessed with the phenomenon itself,

967
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:52,360
rather than what kind of reality permits that type of

968
00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:58,320
reflective perhaps phenomenon to exist in? You know, I think

969
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,519
that's really the most interesting question. We're talking about what

970
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:04,920
the phenomenon is. Then the most interesting question is what's

971
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,880
the mechanism that lets it behave like this? Is it

972
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,679
just somehow us just projecting? Is it somehow that we

973
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,599
are in? Well, then it becomes a question of what

974
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:19,599
the reality is. Are we in some simulation? It's like

975
00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:23,519
things being dropped into us that we're programmed to expect.

976
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:28,320
Is it that it's a chameleon and a camouflage. Isn't

977
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,119
it somehow reads off of us what we expect? Or

978
00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:33,760
it just presents back to us an energy which is

979
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,000
what we expect. I have no idea of any of that,

980
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:38,559
but I think the key to all of this, the

981
00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:42,079
most important thing about all of this is recognizing that

982
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:44,840
this seems to be exactly what you've said, Tonied. It

983
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,719
seems to be how the phenomenon itself works, feeding off

984
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,519
our focal or and feeding it back to us. And

985
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:53,840
then what does that tell us about?

986
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 5: So I would throw one little caveat in there, which

987
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,159
is they're in the same way that again folk core

988
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,119
is folklorets tells us more about the people telling the

989
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:07,519
story than it does about the phenomenon it self.

990
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 4: Right, But when you.

991
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 5: Take that big step back, there are patterns that evolve

992
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,800
and and and absolutely show up. Right, there's definitely cultural nuances.

993
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,000
But again the things we already discussed. Don't eat the

994
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:21,559
don't eat the stuff. If he hears your if you

995
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:23,360
if you hear a friend that you know isn't with

996
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,760
you calling you, you know, to hop off the trail,

997
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,599
No you didn't. There are these, you know, these universals

998
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:33,880
that keep popping up across these stories. The same forms

999
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:40,920
also pop up in the idea of the wild man

1000
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,840
that is half animal, right.

1001
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:47,519
Speaker 2: The woadehouse in England, Bigfoot here, or the whatever whatever wherever.

1002
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:50,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, but also very but even some of the specifics

1003
00:54:50,639 --> 00:54:54,840
of the backward facing hooved legs right, right, ink you

1004
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,960
do fromyogamesh it was the legs of a bull. But

1005
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:00,000
what's the difference with I mean, really, there's no big

1006
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,400
difference between bullham and got as far as symbolically right.

1007
00:55:04,159 --> 00:55:06,960
The leshie of Indo Europe has the same thing.

1008
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:07,559
Speaker 4: Satyrs.

1009
00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:12,159
Speaker 5: These are cult These seem to be largely cultural universal expressions.

1010
00:55:12,159 --> 00:55:18,800
There's versions of goat people everywhere, including antlers or horns.

1011
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: Right in fact that there might be a real secret

1012
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,679
in that too. The whole conception of pan seems to

1013
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:27,920
be central to so much of this, as so many

1014
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:29,920
authors have recognized.

1015
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 5: The same thing with Ila Chusa right again in the

1016
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,360
book I have you know a woman's chase. Again, there's

1017
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,480
there's magic there but here, but that's also part of

1018
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,599
the connection the siren. It was originally in Greek mythology,

1019
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,199
not aquatic. They were bird people. Now we would think

1020
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,320
of them as harpies, right, so harpies would be most

1021
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,760
would most people would recognize this. But then you have

1022
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:02,199
Lilith is connected to owl, right, it is often seen

1023
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,880
as a large female screech owl or a woman. But

1024
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,760
there's also the I always get it wrong. I think

1025
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,440
it's the ahol in Papua New Guinea, which is a

1026
00:56:11,559 --> 00:56:14,119
witch that turns in that you know, her body separates

1027
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:17,360
as she turns to this half bat monster thing. But again,

1028
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,440
bat is a night is a night bird central?

1029
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, an owl, of course is central to alien abduction

1030
00:56:24,599 --> 00:56:30,559
stories and to interpretations of gray extraterrestrials. Essentrally, the many

1031
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,079
strange even pop cultural motifs like the owls are not

1032
00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:37,239
what they seem in twin peaks. I mean, the owls

1033
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,840
certainly has some significance to minerve or it has significance

1034
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,599
all of these different things.

1035
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,559
Speaker 5: And so it's it's so the bigger point here is

1036
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:48,239
again I'm using for those who are listening. When I

1037
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,519
said bird, it's in quotation marks. It is a night

1038
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,119
flying creature. It's a creature of the night that flies.

1039
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,239
Owls occupy that space for most other cultures. But the

1040
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,639
bigger point is the form is itself universal. Right, There's

1041
00:57:01,679 --> 00:57:04,320
the wild man with backward facing legs. There's the woman

1042
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,960
that is connected to either is a transformed witch or

1043
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,199
is a thing that is created and called upon by

1044
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:13,840
a witch that is connected to a night avy you know,

1045
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:17,079
flying creature usually an owl, but sometimes bats.

1046
00:57:17,079 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 3: When owls don't exist in that region.

1047
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 4: Right.

1048
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 5: So while yes, there is some feedback loop with with

1049
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:31,239
folklores and cultural expectations for these things, at the same time,

1050
00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:35,800
there do seem to be forms that also pop up

1051
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,559
and they shouldn't, right unless there was something there the

1052
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:44,280
same way that the First Nations group that's in Alaska

1053
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,280
that Joshua Cutchen writes about, where it's like, hey, you're

1054
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,159
not supposed to eat the salmon, right, in the same

1055
00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:54,039
way the the Irish are telling you don't eat the

1056
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:58,119
food in fairyland, right, same thing, same story.

1057
00:57:58,639 --> 00:58:00,119
Speaker 4: People see the same thing.

1058
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:03,599
Speaker 5: They see these goat people, they see these bird women,

1059
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,840
and these are cultural universals. So there has so there

1060
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:11,280
there's also some element that does seem to be independent

1061
00:58:11,719 --> 00:58:16,920
of culture or even reshaping culture, so that it's always

1062
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,760
appearing the same way. Again, what the feedback loop is

1063
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,960
or how the mechanics of it works, I don't know.

1064
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,639
I think at this point it's and I think this

1065
00:58:25,679 --> 00:58:28,840
is where you and I will will separate ways when

1066
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,199
it comes like the idea of because you're true for

1067
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,320
it and you don't think science can say anything, I

1068
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,599
would suggest science can. We can use science to say

1069
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:39,639
there is a phenomena, but we can't measure it right.

1070
00:58:39,679 --> 00:58:42,400
It doesn't it's outside of our ability to observe because

1071
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,960
we ain't got the Spookatron five thousand patent pending.

1072
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: But I think I think that's just a philosophical statement

1073
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:51,760
and a soft science's statement anyway, Like as in a Storian,

1074
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,639
I can say that, I think the sciences, by nature

1075
00:58:54,719 --> 00:59:01,679
are going to have a problem accepting something which includes

1076
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:07,480
a paradigm. We're a phenomenon or a phenomena inhabit that paradigm,

1077
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:09,239
and they just go, well, we can't explain it. I

1078
00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:11,760
think science, by its nature will exclude the things that

1079
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,039
can't explain outside of its paradigm.

1080
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 5: I don't I don't disagree, but I think there's always

1081
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,519
room for change and growth, and I think we were

1082
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:22,599
going to see that. And again, because you have here's

1083
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:25,360
the thing, there has to be somebody fighting for that worldview.

1084
00:59:26,079 --> 00:59:27,960
And I think this is where again the question is, well,

1085
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,360
how what does this MECHANI isn't like you said, your

1086
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,519
question is does this tell us about the world around us?

1087
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:35,559
I don't think we're equipped to even understand the nature

1088
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:36,920
of it We're meant.

1089
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 2: I don't think we're meant to to be honest.

1090
00:59:39,559 --> 00:59:41,079
Speaker 5: There's something I want to look at. I want to

1091
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:43,119
look at something more. I actually have it saved. But

1092
00:59:43,159 --> 00:59:46,920
there was a guy who made some sort of discovery

1093
00:59:47,199 --> 00:59:51,199
in AI about like what happens when like characters in

1094
00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:53,800
the video game understand the rules of the game, like

1095
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,800
actually how it works versus what you interact with and

1096
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,360
it crashing the system. I want to look more into it.

1097
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,400
But his his proposal is our universe is designed for

1098
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,559
us not to really understand how it works on the.

1099
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 4: Real we'll call it the code level.

1100
01:00:09,159 --> 01:00:13,079
Speaker 5: Right, we are meant to understand how the game works, right,

1101
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:18,280
like you go to your death, Mario runs, hits the block,

1102
01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:21,480
gets the fire flower. Like, those are the things we're

1103
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,119
supposed to understand, not the programming that makes it happen.

1104
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,519
Speaker 4: We may understanding that. And again, what if we talked

1105
01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:30,960
about for years now the microscope?

1106
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 5: Right, you go back six hundred years and tell people

1107
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,320
the reason everyone gets sick is because of the little

1108
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,000
tiny animals so small you can't see. They look at

1109
01:00:39,039 --> 01:00:41,400
you like you were nuts because.

1110
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:42,239
Speaker 4: They didn't have a microscope.

1111
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 5: We ain't get the Spookatron five thousand, you know, two

1112
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,599
thousand we can't. We can't objectively observe the nature of reality.

1113
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:53,239
I would say is here's what I would say. Since

1114
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,719
it's becoming clear that we live in a reality where

1115
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:03,039
our folklore, our cultural understandings are not the phenomena, but

1116
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:06,760
the phenomena is responding to it, we should probably take

1117
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,800
the advice that every other culture has come up with,

1118
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,480
which is you stay away from it, agree, don't say

1119
01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:15,320
its name, like, don't interact that. I think that is

1120
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:19,559
probably the most dangerous thing that is going around right now,

1121
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,559
is we seem to have the belief that we can

1122
01:01:22,639 --> 01:01:26,840
interact with this phenomena safely in this community. Every other

1123
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,960
culture before now, every single one would look at you

1124
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,679
and say you're insane for trying to get this stuff

1125
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:35,639
out to talk to.

1126
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:38,239
Speaker 2: You and let unless that say, you collapse the simulation

1127
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,320
unless it is waiting for some message that we haven't

1128
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,599
given it yet, and then the whole thing, yeah, and

1129
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,360
we escape the Truman Show reality or the Matrix or

1130
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,760
whatever else that we're in. I didn't actually think that,

1131
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,880
but but I like to play Devil's avocation. I have

1132
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,000
to throw two questions to you, because Donnie asked some

1133
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:54,880
questions tonight.

1134
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 4: Ah, Donald and he.

1135
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 2: Said, this is from Donnie Show's stuff. He's a Johnny Shows,

1136
01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:05,199
a very good friend of both Jason and myself. He asks,

1137
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,159
are all excited for the new ought to see movie

1138
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,760
coming out? Can't wait for that? Met Damon Action.

1139
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 5: He says, Donnie, you're why we can't have nice things.

1140
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's your answer, Donnie.

1141
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's you're why we can't.

1142
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,239
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I should be really thrilled because it is

1143
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,599
looking good for the new Spider Man movie. The movie

1144
01:02:29,679 --> 01:02:34,320
I'm the only movie I am actually excited for this year,

1145
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:41,280
Doom three. I they've just dropped a new trailer yesterday

1146
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:44,079
and it looks like Villanueva has.

1147
01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:45,639
Speaker 4: A villain Neuve how do you pronounce?

1148
01:02:45,679 --> 01:02:46,239
Speaker 2: It?

1149
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:49,719
Speaker 5: Has stuck the landing on this. I don't know how

1150
01:02:49,719 --> 01:02:51,760
many people are gonna are going to like it because

1151
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,679
of because the the overarching message of doune and it's

1152
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,559
very clear that villa Neuve has has has really leaned

1153
01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:02,039
into making that very obvious.

1154
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 4: I am that is the only movie.

1155
01:03:03,719 --> 01:03:05,719
Speaker 3: I'm excited for it this year? What about Young Wash?

1156
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:06,880
What about Young Washington?

1157
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:08,679
Speaker 4: Oh? Okay, that one.

1158
01:03:08,719 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it yet.

1159
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw that yesterday with my daughter. It's great,

1160
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:13,320
It's really good.

1161
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 5: Okay, cool, Yeah, I want to see it in the theaters.

1162
01:03:16,039 --> 01:03:18,199
Speaker 2: But like Disclosure Day, that's a legitimate question for you.

1163
01:03:18,199 --> 01:03:19,519
Have you seen Disclosure Day yet?

1164
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 5: No?

1165
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,719
Speaker 2: Well, you watch The X Files, didn't you. Yeah, so

1166
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:23,880
you've seen a better version of it.

1167
01:03:24,039 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 5: I've seen a better version of Yeah, exactly, like I've

1168
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,039
already I've already watched The X Files. Like again, like

1169
01:03:29,199 --> 01:03:31,480
I have no interest in seeing Like I didn't even

1170
01:03:31,639 --> 01:03:33,480
like I wanted to watch Mortal Kombat too. I'm like,

1171
01:03:33,519 --> 01:03:36,199
I'll catch it on streaming. Same thing with super Girl.

1172
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:36,519
Speaker 4: Okay.

1173
01:03:36,639 --> 01:03:39,559
Speaker 5: And I've heard a friend of mine, Donnie in fact,

1174
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:42,960
let me friend of Donnie Ray loved it.

1175
01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 4: Ray thought it was a great movie.

1176
01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 2: So I didn't go to see that. I mean, I

1177
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:53,599
heard from people like reviewers, I respect really bad things.

1178
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:55,239
I was going to take my daughter to it, and

1179
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,440
we might still get there. I'm looking forward to the News.

1180
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,639
What I've liked about the Spider Man movie so far,

1181
01:03:59,719 --> 01:04:02,360
the News, Spider Man, maybe God the Sacond Night. But

1182
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,320
I loved the Michael Keaton Vulture. He was just so great.

1183
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:12,199
And I love the Jake gillanhor Mysterio. Just Mysterio was

1184
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,199
so good. It was so great to see both of

1185
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:18,719
those characters portrayed in it. Really, it by by very charismatic,

1186
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,559
you know, actors in a sympathetic way almost to both

1187
01:04:21,599 --> 01:04:24,599
of those, particularly the Vulture. That's that's been the highlight

1188
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,960
probably of recent Marvel Universe stuff for me.

1189
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, Sony has done very well by Spider Man in

1190
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:34,800
the MCU, and that's why I'm like I I'm looking

1191
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,159
forward as we're getting We're getting a true Scorpion. I

1192
01:04:37,199 --> 01:04:40,199
never thought we would get an actual Scorpion.

1193
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,079
Speaker 2: And the Punisher from it, not that I've ever watched

1194
01:04:42,199 --> 01:04:44,519
Netflix series, but the Punisher is in a Spider Man

1195
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:46,239
movie is great as well, because that's of course how

1196
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,519
we I grew up on Punisher and Daredevil and Spider Man.

1197
01:04:49,599 --> 01:04:52,960
That's how before Mike Bannon or Mike Barron whoever did

1198
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,119
the original Punisher stuff. Right, Yeah, I grew up with

1199
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:58,519
him reading Spider Man and reading Daredevil. That's where I

1200
01:04:58,559 --> 01:04:59,199
saw him.

1201
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 5: There's a a lot of talk that's that Daredevil is

1202
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,679
in this one, that they're hiding him, and there's reason

1203
01:05:04,719 --> 01:05:06,960
to think that they're hiding him with some of some

1204
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,440
of the stuff that's popped up, and there's like, again,

1205
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:15,320
I Sony's done well. So I'm optimistic about Spider Man.

1206
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,119
I'm just worried that there's a lot going on in

1207
01:05:17,159 --> 01:05:20,440
the story, like we're doing the other where he gets

1208
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:24,159
organic webbing and all that, and he's his powers are

1209
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:27,599
growing and changing and I'm geeking out entirely so. But

1210
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:29,840
Dune was the only movie I was like, this is

1211
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:31,360
the movie I have to watch in theaters.

1212
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 4: This is it?

1213
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 5: So yes, no Odyssey again, Donnie, you are why we

1214
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,840
can't have nice things?

1215
01:05:40,199 --> 01:05:43,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably probably it. Then, Jason, Man,

1216
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:45,119
it was so great talking to you again. And we

1217
01:05:45,199 --> 01:05:49,239
do have to I think Horace and Ordaig or whoever

1218
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,559
suggested initially, and I haven't heard anything we've doug, but

1219
01:05:51,559 --> 01:05:55,519
from Horace I sent we have yeah, a quarterly mysterious library.

1220
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 3: That would be fun, you know what, Well, I will,

1221
01:06:00,039 --> 01:06:01,119
I'll talk, we'll talk about it.

1222
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 5: But if okay, but if we do that, the next

1223
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:06,639
one is about soup, is about comic books.

1224
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 4: Dang it.

1225
01:06:07,559 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, that's my that's my one requirement is

1226
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:11,519
that at least one of those has.

1227
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,119
Speaker 3: To be about comic books. That's all I'm saying.

1228
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 2: That's that sounds more than that sounds more. Man, Thank

1229
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:17,920
you so much for coming on again tonight. Any u

1230
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,920
URLs or anything you want to point anybody at, any

1231
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,360
any any hints about your new book that's coming up.

1232
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:26,159
Speaker 5: So, the new book that's coming out, I again where

1233
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:28,719
I'm still. It's very early in production. It will have

1234
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,559
a lot of artwork in it. It's definitely not comic book,

1235
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:33,760
but I am working on several comics as well. But yeah, no,

1236
01:06:34,039 --> 01:06:36,079
it won't be comic, but it will be heavily illustrated.

1237
01:06:36,159 --> 01:06:38,880
It will be uh, it will be very interesting. It

1238
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,760
will be in the I can say it's in the

1239
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:47,360
Bigfoot realm, but I think the it has broader cryptozoological

1240
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,920
ramifications as well, and I think it will. I would

1241
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:55,199
like for it not to be the last word on

1242
01:06:55,239 --> 01:06:56,920
the conversation, but the first word of.

1243
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: A new conversation. I'll say it that way. Man.

1244
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 2: You you whenever you release, I'm going to read as

1245
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,079
soon as it drops, and I'm going to have you

1246
01:07:10,159 --> 01:07:12,840
on the show to talk about it as soon as

1247
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,280
it's out there as well. I missed a lot of

1248
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,400
comments at the end because I was so engrossed with you.

1249
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,760
But to thank you to everybody who was listening, thank

1250
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,199
you so much for coming on mate. It was a

1251
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:21,840
pleasure talking to you. As always.

1252
01:07:22,039 --> 01:07:23,119
Speaker 4: Oh hold on, hold on, hold on.

1253
01:07:23,199 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 3: I saw one thing before we go.

1254
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,039
Speaker 5: Flat Rock says we that they have a Frank Herbert

1255
01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:30,320
Park down the street. He was from Tacoma. I did

1256
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:30,840
not know that.

1257
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 4: That is awesome.

1258
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,679
Speaker 2: I wonder it was he. He would have been around

1259
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,400
when the Moreland is it happened?

1260
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:42,239
Speaker 5: Nine fil think yes? Okay, real quick thing. My favorite

1261
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:45,559
little trivia about the Dune series. The first I can't

1262
01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:47,800
I think it was just the first one, but the

1263
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,159
first the first book or a publishing company to produce

1264
01:07:52,639 --> 01:07:54,280
Dune was Chiltern.

1265
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:57,119
Speaker 4: Chiltern Publishing, and Chiltern.

1266
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:04,079
Speaker 5: Was a They used automotive repair manuals. That was their

1267
01:08:04,159 --> 01:08:06,840
bread and that was their first and to my knowledge,

1268
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,679
only fiction work that they put out. But I grew

1269
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,079
up around Chilton manuals because my father was a mechanic.

1270
01:08:14,199 --> 01:08:16,680
So when I found out, it's like, oh there is

1271
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,479
like for whatever reason, they're like, we're gonna go ahead

1272
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,279
and publish this book that nobody else would take. Chilton

1273
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,840
the Automotive Manual Repair Company produced to doing the first.

1274
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 3: Time, and that's why we have it.

1275
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 4: So wow, you know a.

1276
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,239
Speaker 5: Little bit of connection to my world, to my you know,

1277
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:35,479
growing up as a child, you know, surrounded by these

1278
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:37,520
by all these manuals.

1279
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:42,359
Speaker 2: So that's that's that's fascinating, man. I do, I do

1280
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,479
love those type of manuals.

1281
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,159
Speaker 5: It's not interesting at all.

1282
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 4: I'm gonna help, but you put.

1283
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:51,319
Speaker 5: The mic in front of me, so I'm gonna I'm

1284
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,359
you have to there has to be some kind of payoff.

1285
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:56,359
Speaker 2: I guess that's that's fair enough man, that you can

1286
01:08:56,399 --> 01:09:01,399
talk about weed weed uh, folklore tales to me for

1287
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,399
an hour and five and then you can talk about

1288
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,039
automotive manually stuff for two minutes at the end.

1289
01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 4: Hey, you know you gotta pay the paper somehow, I suppose.

1290
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 5: So, as always, it has been fun, and Donnie, you

1291
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:16,960
are why we can't have nice things.

1292
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 4: But it's always great to see Ken.

1293
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,399
Speaker 5: And Horrors and the chat and flat and everyone at

1294
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:23,920
flat Rock and everyone.

1295
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 3: Else squashed my sam.

1296
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, and those who haven't even you know what, even

1297
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:30,680
if you didn't say anything.

1298
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 4: In chat, and if you're watching on replay, we love

1299
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:33,319
you too.

1300
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:35,640
Speaker 5: I mean, not as much as as I do. Dean

1301
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,079
doesn't love you as much as I do. I do,

1302
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,840
but you know, Jean's got some love for you.

1303
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 3: I'm just saying a little love. You've got a lot,

1304
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:42,800
I got a lot.

1305
01:09:44,159 --> 01:09:47,279
Speaker 2: Well Man. Thank you again for joining with me. And

1306
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:49,680
until I talk to you again, Jason, which hopefully will

1307
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,239
be in the very near future, and until I talk

1308
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:55,199
to everybody else out there, which will be same weird

1309
01:09:55,239 --> 01:09:59,319
time Thursday, nine pm Central next week, same weird network,

1310
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,239
the sold radio Network. Please keep it weird.

1311
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 1: H