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This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 33 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.079 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime 34 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:56.599 History and the authors that have written about them. Returning 35 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:01.000 for another chilling season, investigation Discovery's Dark Mind transports the 36 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.400 most dangerous of all criminals right into your own home 37 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.400 in the series returning on February twenty seven. Non fiction 38 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:11.879 crime author m William Phelps his latest is The Kiss 39 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:15.240 of the She Devil, and criminal profiler John Kelly revisit 40 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:18.759 unsolved homicides believed to be the work of serial killers. 41 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.719 The twist they have an insider that ultimately understands the 42 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.400 disturbed mind of a murderer because he is one currently 43 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:31.719 serving multiple life sentences in a maximum security prison with 44 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:33.680 a new voice on the other end of the line 45 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:38.159 this season, known only to audiences as Raven, this unique 46 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.199 source offers his expert opinion to profile the killers whose 47 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:46.280 victims deserve justice and whose families deserve answers. Raven's voice 48 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.080 and identity are disguised as he uses his own personal 49 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.840 experience to formulate theories about the motives and practices of 50 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:58.120 each murderer, providing unorthodox yet invaluable information that Phelps and 51 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.840 Kelly make sense of in an act to provide law 52 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.680 enforcement with critical leads. The program that we're pro following 53 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.879 this evening is Dark Minds with my special guest, journalist 54 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.479 and author and now television star m William Phelps. Welcome 55 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.240 to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview, 56 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:18.360 M William Phelps. 57 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.039 And how you doing. Thanks for having me back. 58 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.039 Oh great, thanks for coming on here and talking about 59 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:30.639 It's a really wild program. So first things, you know, 60 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.000 it just piqued my interest, and I'm sure the audience 61 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.639 has the same question. How did you find this serial killer? 62 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.599 It's not like there's a big list of guys, but 63 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:42.800 you are a true crime author, and you've written a 64 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:45.599 lot of true crime books. But how on earth did 65 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:50.719 you get this connection? First off, how'd you do that? 66 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.599 How did you come about this person that's just this 67 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:54.800 known as Raven? 68 00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:01.479 Well after, during filming of the first season of Dark Minds, 69 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:07.240 John Kelly, my my partner criminal profiler, he you know, 70 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:09.719 he was suggesting to me, well, he had been suggesting 71 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.319 me to me for a while that I should develop 72 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.240 my own source just for you know, my own work. 73 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.000 And so Kelly and I discussed how to do that. 74 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.639 We we put the put a list of names together. 75 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:26.519 He threw out some names, and I had several. Look, 76 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.120 I mean, I've written twenty three books. I've got all 77 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.439 kinds of people writing to me. With the first season 78 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:36.720 of the show announced, I had more than enough killers 79 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.160 writing to me want to be part of it. And 80 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.000 and and we you know, and I wrote to some 81 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.079 myself that I thought could help. And so through all 82 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:53.480 of those things, uh, we ended up with Raven after 83 00:04:54.120 --> 00:05:00.639 you know, a long time of reading the fields. If 84 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.839 you will, you know, with a show like this, with 85 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:07.959 what we do, it has to be the perfect situation. 86 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:12.480 I want to be absolutely one hundred percent sure that 87 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:14.480 this person isn't telling me what I want to hear, 88 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:20.040 that that they're being honest with their critique, with their 89 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:26.439 you know, you know, with their profiling. Really, so it 90 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:29.680 took a while. It takes a while, and you know, 91 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.560 I believe we have someone now who who's really being 92 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:36.360 brutally honest to the point of being terrifying. 93 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:38.480 Right right, Well. 94 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:43.879 That's seen that now. Now that being said, how did 95 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.800 you what was the criteria for you? I'm other than 96 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.680 being you know, really frank, because not all of these guys, 97 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.319 serial killers are are known for completely telling the truth. 98 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:57.680 So what was it about his background? Without giving anything 99 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.519 too much away, but what was it about his background 100 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.439 or the signature of his crimes, or why is it 101 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.360 that you thought that he might be a guy that 102 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.600 could be a real good asset, because obviously you have 103 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.319 to have some criteria to be able to pick you 104 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.519 said you had surprisingly, but I guess with the first season, 105 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:19.319 it blows my mind that serial kills would be contacting 106 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.480 you'd want to be on television. But you know, there 107 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:27.360 we are, twenty thirteen. But what was the criteria? Well, 108 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.000 picking this serial killer in particular. 109 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.920 Well, there wasn't really a criteria per se. It was 110 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:37.439 just I had to feel each potential candidate, if you will, 111 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:43.040 out and talk to them, and they didn't need to 112 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.439 kill you know, a certain amount of people or there 113 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:47.839 was nothing like It was nothing like that. It was 114 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:50.800 more or less you know, did I trust this person? 115 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.560 Did I trust what they were saying? Did I trust 116 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.000 that they were doing this for the reason that they 117 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:58.839 say they were doing it? Did I trust that this 118 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:03.399 person was was gonna be honest and and and and 119 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:07.560 not play that whole game. I've interviewed countless murderers, psychopaths, 120 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:11.399 et cetera. You know, even if they're telling the truth, 121 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:14.480 they're lying about half of it. So I wanted to 122 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.040 find someone who is just going to say, look, I'm 123 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.040 in jail for the rest of my life, for multiple 124 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.240 life terms, and you know what, I'm gonna open up 125 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:24.759 now because that openness and honesty is gonna is gonna 126 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:29.240 help you understand the mind of the monster that you're chasing. 127 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.720 So the criteria was just, you know, is it is 128 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:35.759 it the right situation? Do I believe it's the right situation? 129 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:38.800 And uh, I absolutely believe I found that. 130 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:40.120 Mm hm. 131 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.439 The The other thing is other than obviously his experience, 132 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.879 because you can hear that as an analysis. But uh, 133 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.079 and he has to be intelligent and articulate as well. 134 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.439 What was the reason for the serial killer wanting to 135 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:55.439 do this? 136 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:01.040 Uh? Well, that's that's for him to discuss us and 137 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:06.000 him to kind of outline as the season goes on, 138 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:09.319 and and and really, we're going to be releasing an 139 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.240 interview I did with him, especially for for this reason, 140 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.240 for promotion, et cetera. And I asked him that question, 141 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.240 why are you doing this? And we're going to be 142 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.360 releasing that the audio of that end of next week. 143 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.639 Uh on I on the ID site. So you're going 144 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.040 to hear from him himself why he's doing this. Uh. 145 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:32.840 You know, in a nutshell, he believes that he believes 146 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:37.000 that I have good intentions and that I can help 147 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:42.879 gather information that will help not solve you know, we're 148 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:45.759 not here to solve cases. We're here to I'm here 149 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:49.039 to develop information to hand over to the law enforcement, 150 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.679 to the right people who can then take it and 151 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:54.679 hopefully add it to what they have and and and 152 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:58.440 and get some answers. And and Raven believes that he's 153 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.000 helping me and doing that. I really honestly believe he does. 154 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:10.519 Now, what is the sort of schedule that you have 155 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:14.559 for this season, What are some of the areas or 156 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.360 cities or crimes that you're looking and tell us a 157 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.840 little bit about what exactly you're looking at in terms 158 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:22.720 of cases unsolved cases. 159 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:28.000 Sure well. The first episode airing Wednesday night, February twenty 160 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:33.559 seventh on an Investigation Discovery is the original night Stalker 161 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:38.519 case out of California, And not to be confused with 162 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:42.759 Richard Ramirez the Nightstalker. This is the original Nightstalker crimes 163 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:48.000 that took place between nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy nine, 164 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.759 and then there was a tiny little break and then 165 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:55.120 there was some murders from nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty six, 166 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:59.840 excuse me, of rapes and murders. So we have like 167 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.000 fifty rapes and then we have like ten murders over 168 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.200 a period of what twelve years or so. 169 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:08.000 And. 170 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:15.600 Jeezus, it's an incredible case. He's the smartest serial killer 171 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.480 that I've ever run into, that will ever run into, 172 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:23.600 I believe. From from from California, we go back to 173 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:25.919 the East Coast and we do do something that's very 174 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:32.639 personal to me a case that involves Molly Bush, Holly Parinian, 175 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.759 and two missing girls right in the town that I'm from, uh, 176 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.159 Lisa White and Jani's Pocket. And I mean, if you 177 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.679 look me up on Facebook and and and that sort 178 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:47.279 of thing, you'll see I wrote an article about that 179 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.519 case for Connecticut Magazine, which they just published on their website. 180 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:58.320 So that's a personal one, very emotional. From there, we go, 181 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.600 we go all over through this throughout the season. I'm 182 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:06.360 in Oregon, I'm way up Dan, I'm way up in 183 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:10.639 British Columbia and Smithers, British Columbia, which is a couple 184 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.360 one hundred miles from the Alaskan border up there. Down 185 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.600 I'm back down in Texas, I'm down in Florida, I'm 186 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.720 out in Missouri, and then I'm out in Virginia and 187 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.440 back in New England. So I'm really chasing these guys 188 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.960 all over the place. I mean, you know, you look 189 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.559 at any major city in America right now as we 190 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.799 sit here and we talk, and there's you know, I 191 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.720 say too, but there's probably more active, working serial killers 192 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.440 in each major city across this country right now. So 193 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.360 they're out there, you know, they're they're out there and 194 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:49.279 they're looking for victims. 195 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.919 Yeah, and everywhere else in the world too, you know. 196 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:57.720 That's that's the fascinating America, though, it seems to just 197 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:01.480 have a bigger recognition of it too. I think I 198 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.360 don't know if you know, I don't know if I 199 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.159 can believe that the US is just, uh, you know, 200 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:09.960 the the innovator of this. But because I know serial 201 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:12.759 killers are everywhere, but I know that serial killers are 202 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.720 more recognized and some of the work that even you're doing, 203 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.519 I think serial killers are recognized in America more than 204 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:20.120 anywhere else. 205 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.919 Well, well, well, I think that's definitely true. I also 206 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:29.320 think that in America it's more densely uh populated in areas, 207 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:33.000 so so you see, you're able to pick off these crimes. 208 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:36.200 You go to Europe and there that you know, there's villages, 209 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.159 there's you know, there's it's it's more open and it's 210 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.240 more spaced out. So there's not a lot of law 211 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.120 enforcement sources putting crimes together, if you will. 212 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:47.600 Uh. 213 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:49.960 Here, we have task forces set up for it. We 214 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.440 have databases. So so when a couple of murders that 215 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.919 match up pop up, you know, the eyes open up 216 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:00.159 on law enforcement there either eyebrows raised and what we 217 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.039 have here, so yeah, we're looking for it more here. 218 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:09.279 I would say, absolutely, What are some of some other 219 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:15.120 cases that you're interested in? Specifically they occurred this season? 220 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:21.279 One one that one that really that I'll talk about, 221 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:24.600 one that really emotionally got to me that, you know, 222 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:27.279 when I should explain first Dan, when when I'm on 223 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.679 the road filming, you know, it's it's grueling. I mean, 224 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:35.039 it's it's we leave the hotel at eight in the 225 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.399 morning and we sometimes you know, usually we don't arrive 226 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:38.639 back till ten at night. 227 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:39.080 Uh huh. 228 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.879 And and so twenty four to seven, I'm living this, 229 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:46.039 you know. And when you latch onto a case like 230 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.039 the Killing Fields in Texas, which which is an episode 231 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.960 this season, and what we're talking about when we say 232 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.720 the Killing Fields is from Houston down to Galveston, the 233 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.480 I forty five corridor. You know, we're talking We're talking 234 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:07.559 dozens and dozens and dozens of dead girls over a 235 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.879 long period of time. And when I got down there 236 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.639 and I started looking into this and started interviewing the 237 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.279 family members of some of these girls who were twelve thirteen, 238 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:23.440 and I started learning aspects of these crimes. It was 239 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:28.120 just overwhelming. I've met some of the stuff I've heard. 240 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.440 I thought I heard everything. I've thought, I've seen everything. 241 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.799 I mean, I've looked at thousands and thousands of crime 242 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:40.519 scene photos, I've interviewed cops about everything. But what I 243 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.159 heard down there I had never heard before. I didn't 244 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.759 think human beings were capable of doing to each other. 245 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.360 And you know, not a lot of that is going 246 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.159 to end up in a show, obviously because it's too gruesome, 247 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:59.360 But just the number of victims and the potential for 248 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:03.080 the number of serial killers was just staggering to me. 249 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.799 And and yeah, so that case sticks out in my mind. 250 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.000 And another case that sticks out in my mind is 251 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.120 a case in Oregon we did And it was the 252 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.440 second or third week I was on the road and 253 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.399 we were out in Oregon filming and we were getting 254 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.679 ready to head up to British Columbia to Canada and 255 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.000 someone someone robbed me. Someone broke into our van and 256 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:35.320 took my bag with my passport, everything, my iPad. Yeah, 257 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159 and and I chased the dude. I chased the dude 258 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.879 and I ended up getting his license plate number, and 259 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.200 long story short, it took all night. But we got 260 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.759 a few of my items back, which were which was 261 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.759 my passport is what I really needed. 262 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:52.720 I got that back. 263 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.639 But yeah, you know it's like it's like here I am, 264 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.840 I'm filming a crime show and I'm involved in this 265 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.799 yeah yeah, and I'm out there solid a crime. So 266 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.919 it was it was bizarre, but you know those are 267 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.519 the rigors of film and a television show on the road. 268 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.960 Yeah, that's reality TV for sure? Is it? 269 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:13.639 Definitely is? 270 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:20.399 Now, maybe you can describe for people that haven't tuned 271 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.120 into this program, what is the basic setup. I know 272 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:25.919 we talked about it in the intro a little bit, 273 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.120 but it is sort of a maybe you can also 274 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:32.200 talk about sort of the innovative mix of things that 275 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:33.919 you sort of have there. It's a little bit of 276 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.679 the you know, tell us a little bit, but it's 277 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.519 a little mix of reality TV and then re dramatization. 278 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:42.480 But tell us how you put this all together. It's 279 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:46.440 a very fascinating sort of sort of innovative twist on. 280 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:49.519 It's not a documentary, but tell us what it really is. 281 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.919 Yeah, well would consider it docu drama. So it's it's 282 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.759 it's basically what I do during my day job, which 283 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:02.559 is writing books. It's it's investigativejournalism. I set out, I 284 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.000 take a case and I look at a case that 285 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:12.960 I believe is an unsolved, a case involving multiple victims 286 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:17.839 and or a serial killer somewhere in there. And what 287 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.440 I do is I just set out to talk to 288 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.359 law enforcement, talk to victims, family members, you know, talk 289 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.680 to local reporters, develop sources. I use some secret sources. 290 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:37.279 This year, I interviewed several survivors on different episodes, survivors 291 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.880 of a serial killer who got away for some reason. 292 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:44.599 And what I try to do is look at it. 293 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.279 You know, most of these cases haven't been looked at 294 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.200 in a long time because no new leads have come in. 295 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:54.160 So I look at them and I just try to 296 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:58.440 present them to the public, hoping the public will notice something. 297 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.039 Through that, I bring information back to my partner, John Kelly, 298 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.480 who's a criminal profiler, and Kelly begins to build sort 299 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.039 of a profile for me of the type of person 300 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:15.240 I'm looking for, and through that we call on my 301 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.960 secret source, if you will, Raven the serial killer, and 302 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:23.920 we begin to ask Raven questions about certain aspects of 303 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.920 the crime that I'm looking at. And he gives us insight, 304 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:31.640 which in turn kind of changes my thinking. And and okay, 305 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.480 and the best weapon I have is the right question 306 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:40.519 to ask the right person. So so Raven helps me 307 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.480 in developing the right way to think about, you know, 308 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.880 the crimes. Look at him differently. He puts me into 309 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.240 the mind of the guy that I'm chasing, you know. Uh, 310 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.119 and only a guy who's done it can do that. So, 311 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.039 you know, that's the premise of the show. And and 312 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:01.599 and then at the end we offer a plea, you know, 313 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.680 come forward if you have any information. And you know, 314 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.359 if we have any potential persons of interest, we we 315 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.920 certainly present them, We present our theories, and we see 316 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.759 what happens. The show hasn't even aired yet this year, 317 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:23.440 and I'm already getting tips about the second episode. So 318 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.440 it's it's quite interesting when the journey begins. 319 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:32.359 Yeah, it's a fascinating program. I was surprised last year 320 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:39.319 that that any television network accepted this idea. It's a 321 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.519 great idea, but it was still surprising that network would 322 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.000 do it. I mean, really come a long way. Really 323 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.720 when you've got a serial killer on the line, so. 324 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.240 Well, it's uh, you know, it's this is this is 325 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.799 the reason why his voice has changed. We don't know 326 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.559 who he is or you know, the viewer doesn't know. 327 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.039 He is a voice on the line, a voice that 328 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.880 can potentially help. So I mean I would never do 329 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:10.759 it if if I had to identify who he was 330 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:16.240 that I wouldn't do that because I didn't I wouldn't 331 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:20.720 want to glorify his crimes, you know, in any way. 332 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:25.240 So yeah, so I think it works, and it works 333 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:26.480 well the way we're doing it. 334 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.640 Yeah, I never thought of that, but that it really 335 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.319 does ensure that he's this is not one of his motives, 336 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.319 is the infamy from it, because you probably have a 337 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.519 way of protecting yourself as well that he can't a 338 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.720 couple of seasons from now say hey I'm the Raven. 339 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.599 And he can't do anything with this notoriety anyway, So 340 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.200 it seems genuine and obviously you're not giving him any 341 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.839 fame per se from this. 342 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.200 So I mean, yeah, I mean, any any killer, serial 343 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.200 killer in prison right now could write a letter to 344 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.920 a newspaper and say hey I'm raven, right, I mean, 345 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:08.559 five of them could do it tomorrow. So there's no 346 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:12.319 way that he can identify himself in that respect, and 347 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.519 you know, that's not what I'm worried about. I'm really 348 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:21.599 all that I'm concerned about is getting answers for families 349 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.440 of these victims, because you know, you sit in front 350 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.400 of someone who's lost their daughter, twelve thirteen year old 351 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:35.759 daughter and they have no idea where her body is 352 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.880 or who her killer abductor is and it's been fifteen 353 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.799 twenty years, and you see the pain and loss on 354 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.960 their face, and you're going to do anything you can 355 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:51.559 to help give them an answer. And I will do 356 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.599 anything I can to help that and help them get 357 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:59.160 an answer. And you know, and Raven's part of that, 358 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.240 you know, He's part of getting that answer. 359 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:04.799 Yeah. 360 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.559 No, I think it's very very honorable, very interesting, and 361 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.240 very much you know, I mean, because you have this 362 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.319 sort of a little bit of this element as well. 363 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:17.119 Where you make the plea is that this America's Most 364 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:21.680 Wanted started off again from a person that that had 365 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.359 more than It wasn't a movie star, wasn't a television 366 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.519 star that started that program. It was a victim's father. 367 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:32.319 And maybe this is an opportunity what really drove you 368 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.119 to be involved with this? 369 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:34.759 But to be. 370 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.119 Involved with true crime, immerse yourself with it as completely 371 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.000 as you have. What was that personal attachment to this 372 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:45.240 sort of life that you've chosen? 373 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.440 Well, part of it, I guess is I mean. I 374 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.920 had a family member, My brother's wife was brutally murdered. 375 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.440 Its unsolved case, and at first it was thought that 376 00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:00.920 she was killed by a local series killer who's killing 377 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:05.720 lots of women. It's still unsolved. Does that drive me? 378 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:07.799 I know, I don't get up in the morning, you know, 379 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.759 with that on my mind, But I'm sure it's in 380 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.079 there somewhere. Seeing the pain on my niece and nephew's faces, 381 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:18.039 I mean that drives me. Sure. Watching my brother die 382 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:24.240 after she died a slow, painful death from addiction certainly 383 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:25.759 drives me because. 384 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:28.759 You know, he Hello, it is Ryan And I was 385 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.200 on a flight the other day playing one of my 386 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.440 favorite social spin slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I 387 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.640 looked over the person sitting next to me, and you 388 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:38.640 know what they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. 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