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<v Speaker 1>This is a clip from Beyond Truth.

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<v Speaker 2>You can access the entire episode now on our website

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<v Speaker 2>and all podcast platforms.

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<v Speaker 3>When you first started doing that pendulum, as you said,

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<v Speaker 3>when did you know or either one of you know

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<v Speaker 3>that it actually clicked and really was something that was working.

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<v Speaker 3>That was one of the big.

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<v Speaker 1>Well for me, it came very early.

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<v Speaker 2>I was working the kidnapping case of a young, very

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<v Speaker 2>young girl and consolidated all my information, took it into

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<v Speaker 2>the policeman in charge and said, by the way, I

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<v Speaker 2>have some information. You should know that I'm using psychic means.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you listen to it? He said, of course. We

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<v Speaker 2>sat down with the comp he recorded the session.

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<v Speaker 1>I told him, told him how.

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<v Speaker 2>I got the information, and gave him all the information

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<v Speaker 2>that I had, and then he thanked me very much. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>after he turned off the recorder, he said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, the big case I was I saw

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<v Speaker 2>last year was solved by a psychic And later during

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<v Speaker 2>that investigation, someone who was working with the detectives on

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<v Speaker 2>them with the detectives said the detectives, Uh, then the

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<v Speaker 2>detectives wanted you to know that you have connected a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of very important dots. So at that moment. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that that was That was all the confirmation I needed.

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<v Speaker 4>H m hm, absolutely cool.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's very interesting, isn't that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 6>What is what is your most memorable I guess case

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<v Speaker 6>that you can that you can think of or you

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<v Speaker 6>used it?

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<v Speaker 5>Is there any that we know of like big cases

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<v Speaker 5>or like.

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<v Speaker 1>There's some there's some that I can't mention.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the cases that really stands out is, Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>we did a case up here in Arizona where a

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<v Speaker 2>young man who was an avid camper and went missing

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<v Speaker 2>and his family was very concerned and I, me and

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<v Speaker 2>me and several other psychics were working the case and

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<v Speaker 2>all we knew was the guy was a n avid camper,

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<v Speaker 2>he had a four wheel drive, and he was somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado or Utah.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all we had to work with.

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<v Speaker 2>And this was a kind of on the fly case

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<v Speaker 2>because the family was paranoid. They were terrified as something

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<v Speaker 2>had happened. And in my situation, using the dowsing, I

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<v Speaker 2>discovered that the guy was in extreme physical danger. He

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<v Speaker 2>was close to death, and I dowsed a specific location.

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<v Speaker 2>A backwards numbered Backwoods rolled up on the muggy on

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<v Speaker 2>Rim and several other of the psychics working in the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I came up with other clues that kind of tied in,

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<v Speaker 2>But the thing that was important to me that they

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<v Speaker 2>kind of validated dependent on for me because I dowsed

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<v Speaker 2>a specific, verifiable location and uh, that's where they found

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<v Speaker 2>the guy and he had committed suicide. And my my

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<v Speaker 2>feeling is that when I did the reading, he had

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<v Speaker 2>he had just killed himself, and I was picking up

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<v Speaker 2>on the fact that he was alive but in serious,

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<v Speaker 2>serious physical danger. But that that one sticks out primarily

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<v Speaker 2>because it validates, because it validates the process because it

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<v Speaker 2>was so specific as to his location.

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<v Speaker 6>So I'm curious to how you do that because I

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<v Speaker 6>know what the pendulum you're gonna get yes or no usually,

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<v Speaker 6>So how did you do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, I'm curious very well, it's basically I called it

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<v Speaker 2>reducing the size of the box. And you build him

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<v Speaker 2>basically a map. And just to ask you asking no question,

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<v Speaker 2>is the guy in Arizona?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? Is the guy northern Arizona? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Is he uh north of the muggy on Rim Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Is he south of x y Z Highway? Is the

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<v Speaker 2>east of x y Z Road? Is he west of

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<v Speaker 2>X y Z road. Eventually you you, yeah, you reduce

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<v Speaker 2>the search area down so that you can get a

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<v Speaker 2>topological map or even Google Earth, and is he north

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<v Speaker 2>of this rock formation? Is he south of this low

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<v Speaker 2>water bridge? Is he east of this creek?

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<v Speaker 1>Is he? Is he west of this uh structure?

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<v Speaker 2>And in that particular case, I got it down to

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<v Speaker 2>you go to x X point in why Point, which

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<v Speaker 2>is one mile apart, go fifty feet off the highway,

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<v Speaker 2>off the road, and just walk south to north and

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<v Speaker 2>north to south and you will find it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that that's exactly where it was.

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<v Speaker 5>So just a whole pile of questions.

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<v Speaker 6>Is this Yeah, it's extremely accurate.

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<v Speaker 2>The downside is that it takes it takes just takes

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<v Speaker 2>a long time. But yeah, I worked the case up

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<v Speaker 2>in Colorado where I got it down to, I think

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<v Speaker 2>where they found that we're looking for the human remains,

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<v Speaker 2>and they found the human right in an area about

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<v Speaker 2>precisely where I had the latitude and the longitude. M

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, if you're patient, I mean, the results are

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<v Speaker 2>phenomenal if you're patient and if you ask the right questions.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm also curious when you're using the pension I'm not

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<v Speaker 6>gonna be either one of you. I guess are you

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<v Speaker 6>guys calling in certain deities or who's helping? Who's giving

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<v Speaker 6>you the answer?

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<v Speaker 5>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 6>Like, are you calling in somebody or is it just

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<v Speaker 6>whoever happens to be around or how does that?

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<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry?

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<v Speaker 7>Wherever the information is sourced? Yeah, talk to personalities or

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<v Speaker 7>specific situations. Were just here is the question. This is

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<v Speaker 7>the information that is being sought. If it's available, present

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<v Speaker 7>it please?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't usually say on sticking when I want to

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<v Speaker 2>ask for if I'm asking for a specific entity to

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<v Speaker 2>show up, which which sometimes you don't. You just asked

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<v Speaker 2>the universe universe, where is X y Z person? But

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<v Speaker 2>if we called in someone to spirit, we asked for

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<v Speaker 2>is there is there a spirit president who has information

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<v Speaker 2>regarding this case? We don't ask for you know, Daniel

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<v Speaker 2>Boone or Cleopatra or Julius Caesar. We just asked for

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<v Speaker 2>whoever is available that has the information we can would

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<v Speaker 2>you please show up?

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<v Speaker 8>So do these do these entities the spirits uh seek

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<v Speaker 8>you out? That's uh you neil, because they know that

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<v Speaker 8>you're gonna uh follow the follow through for them.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, do they look for your help you need George.

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<v Speaker 2>George has a good story about that regarding a stage master.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, regarding what.

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<v Speaker 2>Stage master, master of the stage, the producer, kate, stage manager.

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<v Speaker 7>You know what Dan's alluding to is we spent a

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<v Speaker 7>couple of years researching for our first penderm book, and

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<v Speaker 7>after a while I started noticing just how everything was clicking.

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<v Speaker 7>I mean, the right people were coming together, the right

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<v Speaker 7>information was coming forth.

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<v Speaker 4>It was almost like the book was writing itself, you know.

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<v Speaker 7>It was most incredible, and that led me to once

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<v Speaker 7>again question whether or not Dan and I were somehow

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<v Speaker 7>on a subliminal level influencing the material that we've been

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<v Speaker 7>very careful not to do that, but because it was

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<v Speaker 7>just clicking so well, I began to wonder.

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<v Speaker 4>If, in fact we might. And that kicked off.

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<v Speaker 7>A series of events designed specifically to get my attention,

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<v Speaker 7>and that the way that worked was at that time frame,

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<v Speaker 7>I would get up, usually around dawn, sometimes before dawn,

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<v Speaker 7>and I would take a a one mile walk to

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<v Speaker 7>a city park near here, and then I near my

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<v Speaker 7>house and I would invariably take a photograph of the

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<v Speaker 7>rising sun.

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<v Speaker 4>Got some beautiful, beautiful photographs.

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<v Speaker 7>And then I began to notice in the photographs that

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<v Speaker 7>not only got this wonderful sunrise, but over in this

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<v Speaker 7>corner in the photograph is this blue sphere?

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<v Speaker 4>What the hell's that?

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<v Speaker 7>So then I began to notice that on say, five

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<v Speaker 7>out of seven photographs that I took at the park,

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<v Speaker 7>there would be somewhere in the photograph the blue sphere.

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<v Speaker 4>And this really got my attention.

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<v Speaker 7>And after a while, because it continued over several weeks,

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<v Speaker 7>and hmm.

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<v Speaker 4>Let me send this over to Dan.

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<v Speaker 7>So I kind of wrote up the stuff, sent over

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<v Speaker 7>some of the photographs to Dan, just to let him

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<v Speaker 7>put his pendulum on it and see see if he

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<v Speaker 7>can give me some information on what on earth is

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<v Speaker 7>going on here. So I did, and shortly thereafter Dan

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<v Speaker 7>got back with me.

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<v Speaker 4>With them the orbit is a spirit. It's a spirit,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, but not in this lifetime. And of course

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<v Speaker 4>I just kicked off all sorts of things.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, this is the spirit of someone I once knew

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<v Speaker 7>in a different lifetime. Well, let's pursue that. And through

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<v Speaker 7>various processes, came up with an American actress named Kate Bateman,

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<v Speaker 7>very famous theatrical family in the late nineteenth century early

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<v Speaker 7>twentieth century, and what was being presented was, in fact

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<v Speaker 7>the spirit of Kate Bateman. Kate Bateman was in effect

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<v Speaker 7>stage managing the experiences that Dan and I were having,

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<v Speaker 7>leading us to a point where we could produce the book.

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<v Speaker 2>So we have discovered that the spirit world, they don't

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<v Speaker 2>they don't control us, but they're in a position to

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<v Speaker 2>put things in our path so that if we stumbled

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<v Speaker 2>upon them and were wise enough, we can use them

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<v Speaker 2>to get where we need to be going.

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<v Speaker 4>And it also turns out that Pate like to talk.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, well.

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<v Speaker 8>That that that is true. I've heard that before. It's

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<v Speaker 8>like humans love to talk. I mean, get a person

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<v Speaker 8>that doesn't matter. There ain't too many real quiet people.

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<v Speaker 8>But I would imagine that on the other side, we'd

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<v Speaker 8>be the same way. The spirits would be. I want

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<v Speaker 8>to talk all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>H Yeah, they're they're very chatty in all our sessions.

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<v Speaker 6>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Occasionally we have had had a spirit who really didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk to us. But as soon as we

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<v Speaker 2>learned that, another spirit would pop in. Yeah, yeah, say

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<v Speaker 2>we're in a ghost town or something and X ex cowboy,

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<v Speaker 2>would would you converse with us? We got to know,

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<v Speaker 2>is there anybody else here, Oh, there's the dancehall girl,

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<v Speaker 2>would you talk with us? Yeah, so there's always somebody

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<v Speaker 2>willing to talk m h But yeah, again with us,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not looking for a specific individual person. We're just

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<v Speaker 2>we were looking for the spirit that is most relevant

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<v Speaker 2>to the case at hand.

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<v Speaker 5>Mm hmm. Yeah that kind of makes sense.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, absolute, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 6>Now how either, Well, have you been surprised by an

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<v Speaker 6>answer you didn't expect?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure nothing nothing shocking comes to mind.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of times.

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<v Speaker 2>You're thinking, you think you're going in to the left,

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<v Speaker 2>and then somebody give you an indication that you need

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<v Speaker 2>to be going to the right.

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<v Speaker 1>That sort of thing happens a lot.

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<v Speaker 5>H Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So now you're down in Arizona, I take it not

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<v Speaker 3>out the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and you.

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<v Speaker 3>Go to these do you?

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<v Speaker 8>You go to these ghost towns quite often to contact

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<v Speaker 8>these spirits. I can't imagine, because a lot of those

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<v Speaker 8>people and back in the day died violent deaths, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>according to the stories. Anyway, I imagine they're walking the

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<v Speaker 8>streets yet looking to tell this story.

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<v Speaker 5>Something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have a remind me.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a really good story about having a trap

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<v Speaker 2>spirit across over. One thing we learned is there are

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<v Speaker 2>trapped spirits, but that's very rare. In other words, the

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<v Speaker 2>spirit in the haunted house isn't necessarily stuck in the

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<v Speaker 2>haunted house. The reason the spirits show up at the

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<v Speaker 2>haunted house is because you're there asking for the spirit

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<v Speaker 2>to show up. If you were in your kitchen and

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<v Speaker 2>ask the spirit to show up, the spirit would show

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<v Speaker 2>up in your kitchen. They're very with a few exceptions.

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<v Speaker 2>They're very, very mobile. They can go pretty much pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much any place they want to go. But with us,

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<v Speaker 2>at least Georgie and I have the attitude of going

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<v Speaker 2>out to a location is our way of showing respect

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<v Speaker 2>for them and their lives and what they have been through.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we're making an effort to show our appreciation.

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<v Speaker 2>It's unnecessary, but it's something that.

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<v Speaker 1>That we feel that it's the right thing to do.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's courteous.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that when you when you go a hearted house,

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<v Speaker 2>you're still going into somebody's somebody's home, you're still going

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<v Speaker 2>into the place of business, You're still going into where

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<v Speaker 2>they brought up the kids or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>So your worre always very very courteous.

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<v Speaker 6>I was going to say, you always you always want

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<v Speaker 6>to be respectful, ask pressure.

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<v Speaker 5>They don't want to piss them off.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah what what really? What? Yeah? What?

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<v Speaker 2>What?

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<v Speaker 1>Chafts me? A lot of times is somebody.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll see it on on some of these paranormal shows

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<v Speaker 2>now and I realize they have to do what they

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<v Speaker 2>have to do, but they'll they'll walk up to a

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<v Speaker 2>to a house or a building and say, we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to go in there and we're going to confront these ghosts.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna hunt these ghosts. Yeah, we're going to challenge them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty aggressive and certainly uh unfriendly