Speaker 1: It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff and with me because
Speaker 2: you know, I always love having returning guests. It is
Speaker 2: Andrew Farnsworth, or anithologist and bird expert, and he is
Speaker 2: returning because he was a guest back in October of
Speaker 2: last year.
Speaker 3: So Andrew, welcome back.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: Ria.
Speaker 1: Nice to be here.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So let's talk about I mean when we spoke,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things going on. Obviously we
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the fact of all the buildings
Speaker 2: across the country with lights and interrupting with birds and
Speaker 2: their migration. And that was back in the fall. Now
Speaker 2: that we're in springtime, how what has that changed? Like
Speaker 2: obviously migration changes in the months and the seasons of
Speaker 2: the year.
Speaker 1: Is that correct, Yeah, so it does. It does. In
Speaker 1: some ways it changes pretty dramatically and in other ways
Speaker 1: just you know, sort of the part of the return process,
Speaker 1: right like the opposite. So in some ways it's very simple.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're nearing right now kind of like think
Speaker 1: of it as a as a wave of peak migration
Speaker 1: happening from the US Mexican border to the US Canadian border,
Speaker 1: and right now that wave of like the most intense
Speaker 1: migration is just getting into the southern part of the US,
Speaker 1: and that way is kind of going to break over
Speaker 1: the US for the next few weeks, and by like
Speaker 1: the end of the months, the third and fourth week
Speaker 1: of May, the peak numbers of birds are going to
Speaker 1: be you know, sort of up at the Canadian border
Speaker 1: and on their way to well for those that are
Speaker 1: still traveling anyway, on their way into the boreal forests
Speaker 1: and up to the tundra and so on. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we're in this period when when a lot's happening and
Speaker 1: and this is the you know, kind of the opposite
Speaker 1: obviously of what happened in the fall Bords. You're generally
Speaker 1: moving north and so on a lot of the same species,
Speaker 1: you know, the patterns of like the timing and exactly
Speaker 1: where do change a little bit. But the whole process
Speaker 1: is very much kind of a repeatable and and actually
Speaker 1: a pretty expected and kind of predictable thing in sort
Speaker 1: of the broad sense. Kind of like using an almanac
Speaker 1: and even making a forecast about what migration will happen,
Speaker 1: you could do a pretty good job of knowing what's
Speaker 1: going to be on the move. Interesting Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And as far as you know, the danger zone so
Speaker 1: to speak, and the hazards, yeah, birds are still facing
Speaker 1: them every which way. There are some places, you know,
Speaker 1: where there have been improvements though, and I think I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to kind of call out. Like
Speaker 1: last time we talked, there was this there was this
Speaker 1: major event that had happened in Chicago, and it kind
Speaker 1: of exemplifies the problem of birds colliding with buildings and
Speaker 1: glass transparent and reflected glass, and so it was this
Speaker 1: really big kill and a known bird killing building in
Speaker 1: Chicago that didn't have treated windows so the birds couldn't
Speaker 1: see it, and also didn't have shaded light. Now, after
Speaker 1: the really the kind of furor about what happened there
Speaker 1: and how how serious it was and how big it was,
Speaker 1: those windows are now treated and there's a plan to
Speaker 1: shade and it looks like it reduced the number of
Speaker 1: dead birds beneath those windows by like ninety or ninety
Speaker 1: five percent.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a case where you know, we
Speaker 1: know what works right and we just have to we
Speaker 1: just have to do it. So there's some real positive
Speaker 1: stuff that's out there, that's that's on its way hopefully,
Speaker 1: and then you know, we want to want to capitalize
Speaker 1: on that, right We could all use a win right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I mean the last time we spoke,
Speaker 2: we spoke about the Javit Center in New York City
Speaker 2: taking up six blocks and you know, after all the
Speaker 2: time and all the birds that were lost, that they
Speaker 2: you know, upgraded and improved and so now that's been
Speaker 2: helpful to birds.
Speaker 3: So maybe Chicago took a lesson from New York City?
Speaker 3: Is that possible?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's certainly possible, you know, as much as probably
Speaker 1: the Chicago and no one to admit it that they
Speaker 1: actually it's a wonderful community there that's really been incredibly
Speaker 1: positive there and actually proactive before the New Yorkers so
Speaker 1: to speak. Okay, but when it comes to this building
Speaker 1: and in Chicago and the same kind of success that
Speaker 1: happened at the Javit Center, it's all because of the
Speaker 1: same thing, right, It's like making this this hazard basically
Speaker 1: not a hazard to burn and it's doable and it's
Speaker 1: possible and it works right right right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, are there and I'm sure there are, and maybe
Speaker 2: you don't know this because it's like off the top
Speaker 2: of your head. Are there other newer, modernize modern buildings
Speaker 2: in other cities around the country that did not do
Speaker 2: the right thing when they were built? And it seems
Speaker 2: like there's the community getting together just like they did
Speaker 2: in New York City and Chicago, Or is it too
Speaker 2: many to tell?
Speaker 1: For sure? There are definitely there are definitely buildings that
Speaker 1: did not do the right thing. We're starting to get
Speaker 1: called out to do the right thing and frankly can
Speaker 1: do the right thing now because there are tools available
Speaker 1: to them right right. Then there also are architects out
Speaker 1: there and buildings that have done the right thing and
Speaker 1: put in from the start when they built the buildings
Speaker 1: the bird friendly glass, you know, so you don't need
Speaker 1: to reprofit it, right, you put the glass in to
Speaker 1: start so that birds can see it. And so both
Speaker 1: of these things are happening right the idea of the
Speaker 1: retrofitting and recognizing like, oh, we need to do something here. Sure,
Speaker 1: maybe it's to avoid a pr nightmare, or maybe because
Speaker 1: we realize it's the right thing to do anyway, or
Speaker 1: we've done the right thing in the first place. Both
Speaker 1: of those things are happening.
Speaker 3: For sure, that's excellent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and usually that discussion, you know, once it starts
Speaker 1: to happen, it's not that hard to have, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, we can still communicate as people.
Speaker 3: Right, right, you know, you're right, which is actually kind
Speaker 3: of it is encouraging and lifting at this point of
Speaker 3: our lives. I completely get that.
Speaker 2: But also, you know, a lot of it has to
Speaker 2: do with you because you're you know, you've been fighting
Speaker 2: the fight and talking about it so much, and I
Speaker 2: feel like it's almost like you know, catching fire. Not
Speaker 2: to use that phrase, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like the word is spreading and people realize, like it's
Speaker 2: easier to just do the right thing from the get go,
Speaker 2: and we build this building.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, And it's always you know, it's
Speaker 1: always a hard thing. Right. It's like when you either
Speaker 1: make a mistake or you do something because you don't
Speaker 1: know it, it's like, uh, like I have to fix
Speaker 1: that and that work, you know, but of course, like
Speaker 1: it's always easier to fix a mistake than it is
Speaker 1: to just let it keep going.
Speaker 3: No, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: For various reasons, it may not seem like that at
Speaker 1: the time, but this is surely the case that we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, with the buildings that are retrofitting, and it
Speaker 1: makes an immediate difference, right, So then of course that's
Speaker 1: like it comes around to be like, well, look we've
Speaker 1: done this really good sustainable thing. You know, the burgers
Speaker 1: and the animal lovers are happy, and the people in
Speaker 1: the building are happy because you know, they're not constantly
Speaker 1: getting harassed by by people saying like you're those are
Speaker 1: killing birds and right and so on. So it's a
Speaker 1: win all around. Yeahs these things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's win win for everyone.
Speaker 2: People can go to work in peace, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's not their fault that they're working in a building
Speaker 2: like that, but still, uh, you know, and then the
Speaker 2: people who are the animal lovers can move on to
Speaker 2: the next project.
Speaker 3: So that's you know, so it is it's win win,
Speaker 3: and the most the biggest win is the fact that
Speaker 3: birds live.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's right, that's the part of it. That's right.
Speaker 1: Birds live and they're you know, they're obviously integral to
Speaker 1: these ecosystems that we live in. And when you know,
Speaker 1: when you're like maintaining the components of the ecosystem. It's
Speaker 1: just that much more likely that you can actually maintain
Speaker 1: the whole structure, right because obviously it's just like the birds,
Speaker 1: only it's clearly like the whole thing that's important. And uh,
Speaker 1: they're just a proxy for how to how to kind
Speaker 1: of keep the whole system healthy, right.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, No, it's actually it's excellent.
Speaker 2: Yay, some good news. Yay, Andrew, I knew you'd you
Speaker 2: come over with some good news. Indeed, No, it's good,
Speaker 2: it's good.
Speaker 3: So let's see.
Speaker 2: So what else can we can we share with listeners
Speaker 2: now that I mean with the whole migration with birds,
Speaker 2: how about getting into the summertime?
Speaker 3: And I mean, is and maybe this is.
Speaker 2: Totally off off kilter, but like off in the sense
Speaker 2: of with people traveling and I'm doing like going camping.
Speaker 2: Is that is there something that affects birds because there's
Speaker 2: more people are more out in nature, even though we
Speaker 2: want them to be more out in nature because of
Speaker 2: the warm weather.
Speaker 1: You know, the interactions between people and birds, I mean,
Speaker 1: they they're kind of in the places where they're difficult,
Speaker 1: like things we're talking about with buildings or where people
Speaker 1: are disruptive or whatever that that happens all year round. Yes,
Speaker 1: there are places where, you know, like if you're out
Speaker 1: in the Hamptons and you're out on the beach there,
Speaker 1: like don't go wandering into the nesting area up these turns, right,
Speaker 1: there are obvious things you can do. But I think
Speaker 1: I think the even better thing to think about is
Speaker 1: like the summer is a great time in particular in June,
Speaker 1: you know, in New York and sort of all over
Speaker 1: the state. It's a really great time to keep a
Speaker 1: close eye on birds because they're all singing, right, this
Speaker 1: is the time when they're like when they they look
Speaker 1: the coolest in terms of there's the greatest diversity of colors, right,
Speaker 1: images are all fresh, and and the males and females
Speaker 1: are all you know, on territory, and they've got nests
Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of singing. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of cool behaviors. It's kind of like the best
Speaker 1: time of the year, you know, to be to be
Speaker 1: out and listening and looking. So in some ways it's
Speaker 1: like flip the flip the human element on its head
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, okay, well this is the time
Speaker 1: I actually really want to go out and experience, and yeah,
Speaker 1: do it smartly, like don't don't disrupt, and don't be
Speaker 1: loud and sure like be be mindful when you observe,
Speaker 1: but but do get out there and see it, because
Speaker 1: it's the time you really can engage. And I mean
Speaker 1: even if it's something as simple as you know, like
Speaker 1: in New York City, like on people's terraces and sometimes
Speaker 1: on their air conditioners. Right, they may have a mourning
Speaker 1: dove or an American robin nesting, and this is the
Speaker 1: time when you know the parents are coming in and
Speaker 1: feeding young, and like there's a there's a closeness and
Speaker 1: an ability to see that.
Speaker 3: Now, right, it's.
Speaker 1: A good time to get out and be looking. I
Speaker 1: mean it always is, but now especially.
Speaker 2: Especially Yeah, yeah, yeah, I almost feel like it's it's
Speaker 2: because it's the time of year that humans, like it's
Speaker 2: a rebirth for us bring into summer, and I feel
Speaker 2: like it's the same thing you know, to explore, and
Speaker 2: it's the same thing for the birds well for nature.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. It definitely is a time
Speaker 1: when you can you can you know, it's obviously comfortable,
Speaker 1: generally comfortable to be to be a human outside at
Speaker 1: this point it's not like your frigid Sure, yeah, exactly
Speaker 1: with wind and ice and all kinds of things. And
Speaker 1: and a lot of these activities are happening because there's
Speaker 1: so much energy you know, uh that's translating into greenery, insects,
Speaker 1: you know, for birds, et cetera. Right, it's like it's
Speaker 1: almost first energetic principles. Right, it's like some real basic
Speaker 1: physics there that the sun is there, it's at its highest,
Speaker 1: you know, the days are at their at their longest,
Speaker 1: and there's all this amazing stuff going on because of that.
Speaker 3: Sure, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And you know, you we were talking about the parents
Speaker 2: coming out and feeding so and this just popped into
Speaker 2: my head because sometimes it happens.
Speaker 3: What's the best thing for.
Speaker 2: Someone to do, Say they're out and there in the
Speaker 2: park or something and they see a baby bird that
Speaker 2: fell out of a nest. What's the best thing to do.
Speaker 1: So that's a good question. A lot of people ask
Speaker 1: that all the time. So if it's there's a good
Speaker 1: sort of a good you know, a good gauge, if
Speaker 1: it's if it's featherless, or if it if it really
Speaker 1: seems like it's a very very new uh, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of nestling that has has hopped out of the
Speaker 1: nest and really does not have feathers on it. If
Speaker 1: you see the nest, you know you can return that
Speaker 1: to the nest. Okay, so that's something that absolutely you
Speaker 1: can you can do. You can sort of gently scoop
Speaker 1: it up and place it back in there. And you know,
Speaker 1: you also if you can't get back to the nest,
Speaker 1: like if it's somewhere high up or I don't know,
Speaker 1: on a wall or a tree or something like that,
Speaker 1: you can make kind of a surrogate nest, right, you
Speaker 1: can sort of create a little a little area where
Speaker 1: you can place the bird because the parents are guaranteed
Speaker 1: to be watching, right, they've invested.
Speaker 3: In this sure of course. Yeah, so that's.
Speaker 1: The one thing. If it's if it's a nest, like
Speaker 1: so basically if it's like a featherless.
Speaker 3: Bird, ok yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you see a bird that's feathered, you
Speaker 1: know that is not exactly you know, sort of like
Speaker 1: looking like it's uh, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: you know, fully baked the shovel, but it's got feathers
Speaker 1: on it and it can move around and it looks
Speaker 1: like it's trying to fly. That's what we call the
Speaker 1: fledgling stage. And again the parents are probably nearby and
Speaker 1: that birds looking to fly, and there's that's sort of
Speaker 1: a like, okay, you can keep it out of harm's
Speaker 1: away if it's trying to get into your house or
Speaker 1: if it's you know, crafting your window, and try to
Speaker 1: safely navigate it away. But that's one where you sort
Speaker 1: of leave it alone.
Speaker 3: Leave it alone. Yeah, that's what I figured. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously, if it's in immediate danger, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: like you can you can move it a little ways
Speaker 1: to keep it out, but generally speaking, like you know,
Speaker 1: hands off. At that point, it's the bird sledged and
Speaker 1: has feathers on it and is moving around.
Speaker 2: No, that's great, that's you know what, that's great advice
Speaker 2: because featherless. I would never realize that or think about it,
Speaker 2: because there's always that thing in your head, probably like
Speaker 2: a myth, oh well if you touch it and give
Speaker 2: it and put it back in the nest, and the
Speaker 2: parents are going to say, oh no, it had a
Speaker 2: human touch. But that's not true at all, right, I
Speaker 2: mean that's true, Like that's kind of a myth that
Speaker 2: people think.
Speaker 1: It is yeah, birds, you know, I mean, we don't
Speaker 1: fully know like the extent of their their sensive smell,
Speaker 1: but it is not very good generally, to the point
Speaker 1: where let's say, you know, the old sort of tail
Speaker 1: of Oh, you get your scent on it, and the
Speaker 1: birds aren't going to come back. No, that's not the case.
Speaker 1: That's not you know, that's actually not the reason they
Speaker 1: wouldn't come back. It's if there's a whole lot of
Speaker 1: disturbance and there's some predator around for sure, like hanging
Speaker 1: over the nest and just like constantly you know, right there.
Speaker 1: That's why they're not going to come back. It's not
Speaker 1: because you have your scent on the you know, on
Speaker 1: the bird. So absolutely they don't have a strong sense
Speaker 1: of smell, and that's not an issue. Getting that featherless
Speaker 1: bird back is definitely a thing you can do, for sure.
Speaker 3: No, that's great, that's so great.
Speaker 2: I you know, I've always wondered about that because you know,
Speaker 2: there's so many schools of thought and obviously they were
Speaker 2: all incorrect, and I needed to speak to you the
Speaker 2: expert on it.
Speaker 3: Nobody.
Speaker 2: It's good because it's good for my listeners to know too,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure it happens. You know, you could be
Speaker 2: walking through a park or something, you know, taking a
Speaker 2: springtime stroll, and it happens. Sometimes birds fall out of
Speaker 2: the nests. But yeah, featherless perfect perfect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Featherless or feather that's your that's the
Speaker 1: key out of the key.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And of course the parents
Speaker 3: are always nearby.
Speaker 2: It's not like, you know, they're going out partying and
Speaker 2: leaving the babies back, so you know.
Speaker 1: But interestingly, you know parents like the that happens later.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, exactly when the.
Speaker 1: Birds, right, So when the bird sledge, when the young
Speaker 1: birds are out there forging and can fly and concede
Speaker 1: on their own, the parents do leave, right, and then
Speaker 1: they actually leave at different times, like the males and
Speaker 1: females will start migrating at different times, you know, the
Speaker 1: male parent, female parent, and they'll go to perhaps different places,
Speaker 1: you know, where they're not competing against one another to
Speaker 1: spend the winter, and the young will follow, right, So
Speaker 1: they do. In fact, the parents do leave early, but
Speaker 1: not so early when the birds are still you know
Speaker 1: obviously featherless or.
Speaker 2: You know, right, they don't kick them out of the
Speaker 2: house until that their kids are ready to stand on
Speaker 2: their own two wings or something, right, Is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So for you for your job, what happens for you
Speaker 2: like this time of year obviously after the birds the
Speaker 2: migration that happens into June, like summertime, is that like
Speaker 2: a more complicated time for your job or is it?
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 2: Or probably your job is always complicated and always busy
Speaker 2: with different if that makes sense, But like what's different
Speaker 2: for you as we get into the summer with what
Speaker 2: you do with your job?
Speaker 1: Well, I can finally go to sleep now. I know.
Speaker 3: You're not up all night watching birds?
Speaker 1: Right, degrations happening?
Speaker 3: Right, You're always up.
Speaker 1: There's always there's always something interesting happening. And you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: like the bird world has a lot of I think
Speaker 1: pursuits in science and many things, but times in particular,
Speaker 1: there's there's always dynamism and there's always something exciting to
Speaker 1: think about. So it's not so much like there's there
Speaker 1: might be downtime from like watching the weather like a
Speaker 1: hawk and try to understand, you know, how how birds
Speaker 1: are going to interact with severe weather or like really
Speaker 1: favorable conditions or whatever, or how interesting patterns are unfolding.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the time to start digesting a little
Speaker 1: bit and obviously you know, thinking about like okay, well
Speaker 1: what what just happened and what's likely to happen again.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a little bit of a reset for sure,
Speaker 1: But I don't know, the complexity doesn't change. It just
Speaker 1: sort of shifts into into a different mode of like,
Speaker 1: all right, this frenetic period where there are you know,
Speaker 1: a few billion birds on the move is about to
Speaker 1: get you know, going again in a month. What did
Speaker 1: I learn this spring? You know, we're the head of
Speaker 1: schedule behind schedule. Did the models work well? That predicted
Speaker 1: you know, when birds were going to be here or
Speaker 1: there where they're different sort of odd unexpected patterns that happened.
Speaker 1: It's a really good time to kind of digest that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I try to do that, you know, they try
Speaker 1: to make sense from that perspective. I mean, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: your you know, your Monday morning quarterback or whatever whatever
Speaker 1: way you phrase them, you know, right, Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: it's not really really a downtime per se. It just
Speaker 1: is it changes the kind of the nature of like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's it's almost overload from you know, a in May
Speaker 1: and then again in September and October because there's so
Speaker 1: much happening and now there's so many people out birding
Speaker 1: that the information coming in is just incredible. Sure, So
Speaker 1: so that does change, you know, during like June and July,
Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of nice to just sort of
Speaker 1: be able to think about the data and look at
Speaker 1: what happened and try to understand like, okay, like how
Speaker 1: does this year compared to others? Like what what am
Speaker 1: I expecting for the fall? Now? What kind of in
Speaker 1: New York City? What kind of a season are we
Speaker 1: talking about? You know, like right now, for example, we're
Speaker 1: a little above the typical numbers of birds that have
Speaker 1: passed through like over Manhattan, for example, we're just over
Speaker 1: like a million birds for the for the year, and
Speaker 1: that'll go up to well, I don't know, like two
Speaker 1: and a half to three millions, so you know, we're
Speaker 1: still to come in the big peak and in June
Speaker 1: it'll be like, okay, well, how did that actually transpire?
Speaker 1: What did do we get to that sort of average number?
Speaker 1: Was it earlier than usual? That's the kind of stuff
Speaker 1: that happens in the same.
Speaker 2: Right, right, So it's time for you then to digest it,
Speaker 2: put it all together, do your research, and also for
Speaker 2: you probably to take a breather here and there as
Speaker 2: well over the summer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there definitely are. There definitely aren't as many you know,
Speaker 1: stories and other things to spin when when birds are
Speaker 1: more stationary, there are different stories to talk about, right,
Speaker 1: But for me, you know, with the migration talk and background,
Speaker 1: that is definitely a time when I could just sort
Speaker 1: of think about like, oh okay, like I don't have
Speaker 1: to feel that call today, right, and that discussion can
Speaker 1: be tabled for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: Sure, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 3: Cool, it's great.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I do appreciate that you took
Speaker 2: the time out because I know this is kind of
Speaker 2: your busy season.
Speaker 3: So I appreciate that and appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I find you so fascinating and your information just so
Speaker 2: useful and you know, and that we can all for
Speaker 2: those of us who aren't bird experts or you know,
Speaker 2: just know a little bit about birds, you explain it
Speaker 2: so well for all of us, for me and I
Speaker 2: list and I really do appreciate you so and so thank.
Speaker 3: You for that.
Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate being you know, being here. Thank
Speaker 1: you Mary for having me. And it's it's nice to
Speaker 1: talk to the audience, you know, and and hopefully, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it inspires people to get out and think
Speaker 1: about these things and and obviously you know, to to
Speaker 1: explore the way I see it often when there's two elements, right,
Speaker 1: when when you walk into a cocktail party and say,
Speaker 1: you know you study birds, right first, there's like, wait,
Speaker 1: what right exactly, but it's a little bit rare, but right, everybody, everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody has a story is related to birds, and it
Speaker 1: does not take much to get people very animated about
Speaker 1: their story. And because of that, it's the really easy
Speaker 1: thing to talk about, right, And if there's inspiration that
Speaker 1: that gets people more interested, I'm all for it. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to do it. I'd love to, you know, love
Speaker 1: to to have people be able to share some of
Speaker 1: these things that I've been fortunate to learn and see, sure,
Speaker 1: and have more people do it. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's a win all around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that makes sense. It makes so such perfect sense.
Speaker 2: And you know, if anybody goes to a cocktail party
Speaker 2: and somebody says something about birds, they can say, oh, I.
Speaker 3: Know Andrew Farnsworth. He talks to Maria all the time.
Speaker 3: He's a bird expert. Well, Andrew, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I know we'll talk again, and I actually for once
Speaker 2: feel optimistic that I feel like when we talk again,
Speaker 2: you'll have a story about another city that did the
Speaker 2: right thing with a new construction, you know, new construction
Speaker 2: of a building.
Speaker 3: I just have that feeling.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have the same feeling and the data to
Speaker 1: support it even which is even better.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Well, thank you so much, thank you for all
Speaker 2: you do and for your time, and we will definitely
Speaker 2: talk again.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for you