Speaker 1: How's it going to everyone?
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast morning.
Speaker 2: The following podcast materials.
Speaker 1: Audience listener. That's good. We nailed that, nailed it, nailed
Speaker 1: that third times the charm right, this is our third
Speaker 1: podcast three.
Speaker 2: So therefore, yes, the third post number three.
Speaker 1: And I did the research for this one, so you did.
Speaker 2: It's a cool episode.
Speaker 1: It's in a cool episode. The research was intense, was it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just was a lot longer than I anticipated it to.
Speaker 2: Well, you got that rabbit hole you crawl down, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is that what happened?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, numerous times, Like the amount of articles and
Speaker 1: news pages I read was just a little bit much.
Speaker 2: A little much. Well, like, how long do you think
Speaker 2: you're researching for?
Speaker 1: Oh? I put a solid eight hours, really like a
Speaker 1: homework day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's honestly, it's not surprising when I look back
Speaker 2: the research I'd done for the past too, So that's fair.
Speaker 2: I can see it. I can see it.
Speaker 1: I think it will get easier though, because honestly, as
Speaker 1: you just learn easier and more efficient ways of doing it.
Speaker 1: So I think, like the fifth the one I do
Speaker 1: or whatever, it would be much easier.
Speaker 2: Well, and there's a lot of descriptions out there when
Speaker 2: you're researching stuff and it's like you can omit this.
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, the victim was wearing a blue hair tie.
Speaker 2: Do we really need to know that? Not necessarily?
Speaker 1: No, I did already emit stuff like that. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm doing good well and.
Speaker 2: Even still in an hour long podcast, we can't fit everything.
Speaker 2: Oh no, so we're gonna do the best we can.
Speaker 1: Oh if I fit everything, as you guys to have
Speaker 1: to listen to us for three hours, and who wants
Speaker 1: to do that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I've listened to you over the past like
Speaker 2: fifteen years talk NonStop, so I'm pretty sure I've listened
Speaker 2: to more than just three hours NonStop.
Speaker 1: Can we have two podcasts out? We do, and they're
Speaker 1: going really well.
Speaker 2: They are like ridiculously well.
Speaker 1: You have pumped.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've actually told you yet, but I
Speaker 2: looked at the numbers. We are over two hundred listens
Speaker 2: on both episodes combined already, who Who? And they've only
Speaker 2: been released for like well at this time, like not
Speaker 2: even two weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone, thank you, ya, thank You've had some
Speaker 2: incredible support from like friends and people online who were
Speaker 2: just finding us. I even had someone on TikTok on
Speaker 2: my personal account say that, like, hey, I literally haven't
Speaker 2: looked up your podcast yet, but Spotify recommended Wicked and
Speaker 2: Grim to me on my recommendation thing. So that's pretty
Speaker 2: dope that we're making the recommendation list.
Speaker 1: That is awesome, right, Look at us moving up in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: People like us, I think, I hope.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, time will tell.
Speaker 2: If they stick around they like us. Yeah, if they don't,
Speaker 2: then clearly we've got we've got some issues.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, should we stop with the chit chat?
Speaker 2: Sure, let's get right to it.
Speaker 1: Let's dive into this case.
Speaker 2: Boom and a cool episode present us the case. What
Speaker 2: do we got?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I actually haven't really given any hints or anything.
Speaker 1: I think the only hint I gave that it was
Speaker 1: a BC case, which it is, and you kept a.
Speaker 2: Lot of information for me. I know nothing about this
Speaker 2: case either.
Speaker 1: I know I'm very secretive.
Speaker 2: You aren't in good job on keeping it. Although in turn,
Speaker 2: just so you know, I'm making sure that I'm not
Speaker 2: telling you anything about my case and just you guys
Speaker 2: are aware. We're recording today's episode and next week's episode
Speaker 2: back to back. So I've got my case. Later writ
Speaker 2: in front of me and.
Speaker 1: Nicolemost nothing about I know nothing.
Speaker 2: I'm not telling her anything between now and then when
Speaker 2: we record.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't even know if I know the name
Speaker 1: of the person.
Speaker 2: Well, at the end of this episode, I'll tell you
Speaker 2: guys what the cases, But first we got to listen
Speaker 2: to it. Cales case, I'm pumped. What do you got?
Speaker 1: Okay? So here we go. So I am diving deep
Speaker 1: into the murder of Rena ke rena Vert. Does that
Speaker 1: name sound familiar to you?
Speaker 2: I would like to say yes, but no it doesn't. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm really bad with names.
Speaker 1: Over you are? And yeah, I for some reason remember
Speaker 1: this happening, and it's also been in the news very
Speaker 1: consistently over the years. So I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of people are going to.
Speaker 2: Know about this one then I should know it.
Speaker 1: But probably, well it might maybe some bells will ring.
Speaker 1: Is that how you say that?
Speaker 2: Maybe it'll ring some bells, ring some bells. I'm not
Speaker 2: a news person though, either. I try to avoid that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's depressing a lot of times okay, So who is
Speaker 1: Rena Virk.
Speaker 2: Let's hear it.
Speaker 1: So, Rena Vike, at the time of her murder was
Speaker 1: only fourteen years old. I'm just going to throw that
Speaker 1: out there because that's really sad and that might trigger
Speaker 1: some people. So she was born on March tenth, nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty three. Her parents were suemn Urke and man Jeep Burke,
Speaker 1: and she was the oldest of three children, and they
Speaker 1: lived in Sanwich, BC. Do you know where that is?
Speaker 2: That's south right Vancouver area or is it on the island.
Speaker 1: It's on Vancouver Island, on the island. I love Vancouver Island.
Speaker 2: My geography is also terrible. I'm just all around not
Speaker 2: an educated individual. I don't watch the news. Names don't
Speaker 2: stick with me and geography don't ask me math either.
Speaker 1: Well, this is going to educate you more.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: So it's about two kilometers or two miles or so
Speaker 1: from Victoria, So it's pretty much like a suburb of Victoria.
Speaker 1: I mean, people that live there probably are not gonna
Speaker 1: be happy with me saying that, but I think it's
Speaker 1: a suburb of Victoria. So Rena's dad was a first
Speaker 1: generation immigrant from India of Sikh religion, and Rena's mom
Speaker 1: was born and raised in Victoria, also Indian, but of
Speaker 1: Jehovah Witness religion.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's a different combination.
Speaker 1: It is, isn't it. So Rena is described and this
Speaker 1: she was described with this numerous articles. I read as
Speaker 1: a minority within a minority because she's living in basically Victoria,
Speaker 1: Savage BC, in a South Asia community, but of Jehovah
Speaker 1: Witness religion when most of the people in that little
Speaker 1: community would be of Sikh religion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see sticking out like a sore thumb
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: So Rena was described as she loved life, She was
Speaker 1: a caregiver, liked caring for people, and loved babies, including
Speaker 1: her little siblings.
Speaker 2: Ah, she sounds like a good person.
Speaker 1: Her mom, uh said if she was alive today, she
Speaker 1: would have done something to help other people.
Speaker 2: We need more people like that in our lives in
Speaker 2: the world, Like.
Speaker 1: She probably would have been a nurse or something. And yeah,
Speaker 1: we need caring people in this world. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know where this is going now.
Speaker 2: I mean I do, but I don't.
Speaker 1: So at the time of the murder, like I said,
Speaker 1: Rena was only fourteen, which is just so young, Like
Speaker 1: fourteen years old, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: You're still developing as a person then, Like you don't
Speaker 2: even know who you are.
Speaker 1: I know you don't. Yeah, you're just very new to
Speaker 1: the world. Really well, like I think.
Speaker 2: Back when you were fourteen, what were you like? Well,
Speaker 2: I know what you were like. We were dating then
Speaker 2: almost dat we knew each other.
Speaker 1: I was going to say I was into teenye maybe,
Speaker 1: but I think maybe that out pays already went by hopefully.
Speaker 2: I think I was fifteen, okay, so we're just starting
Speaker 2: to get to know each other. And yeah, you were weird.
Speaker 1: I was odd. I feel like I was like young
Speaker 1: too long.
Speaker 2: But we don't even know.
Speaker 1: But that's okay. I feel like that's a good thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stay young as long as you can.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Reno was described as also being a very self conscious teenager,
Speaker 1: which I mean as we were just kind of saying,
Speaker 1: like you're finding yourself and you're not too sure about
Speaker 1: what you're going to be yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all like that when we're that age.
Speaker 1: And she desperately sought the acceptance from her peers, which
Speaker 1: is like really sad just learning that. But I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're just learning, learning everything about yourself, and you just
Speaker 1: want people to like you and make friends, And.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of pressure at that age too, right,
Speaker 2: trying to fit in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I just I just pretty much just described
Speaker 1: like a normal teenager.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just literally described my past.
Speaker 1: So she was also going through a rebellion phase from
Speaker 1: her parents, which is also very common, but hers was
Speaker 1: a little bit more intense, and I feel like most
Speaker 1: people's rebellion phase would be from their parents, She figured.
Speaker 1: She thought her parents were very overprotective. For an example
Speaker 1: of that, they gave her a nine pm curfew. But
Speaker 1: I mean, at fourteen years old, I was not roam
Speaker 1: in the streets at nine pm. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up on a dirt road. It
Speaker 2: was like when I go home from school at like
Speaker 2: four thirty, it was like, I'm not going out unless
Speaker 2: it's for a bike ride to the next door neighbor
Speaker 2: who is my buddy, and by then it's I'm back
Speaker 2: by dinner.
Speaker 1: But I was also a perfect child.
Speaker 2: Of course you were. You're a perfect human all around
Speaker 2: study much brand points to me today.
Speaker 1: Saving you don't have to sleep on the couch tonight. Whooh, okay,
Speaker 1: So she so just kind of dive into how she
Speaker 1: was rebellious. She had ran away from home, she with
Speaker 1: her grandparents. She her her end goal basically of her
Speaker 1: rebellion was she wanted to live in like a foster care,
Speaker 1: in foster care. What that was. She didn't want to
Speaker 1: be living with her parents. I think she had friends
Speaker 1: that were in foster care group home situations, and it
Speaker 1: just that seemed more desirable to her.
Speaker 2: So it was glorified because who aims to live.
Speaker 1: In faster care?
Speaker 2: I know, I know, unless you had like a really
Speaker 2: bad living situation, you know exactly.
Speaker 1: And her parents are amazing. They're like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: you're going to learn about them and they're just phenomenal.
Speaker 2: This is breaking my heart already.
Speaker 1: So living with her grandparents wasn't going overly well. She
Speaker 1: and what she did next was she reported physical, mental,
Speaker 1: and sexual abuse at her home, which caused her father
Speaker 1: to be arrested.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you said that she was like an
Speaker 2: all around good person. That's not a cus.
Speaker 1: She was a very good person, but she was kind
Speaker 1: of just out a phase where she was just like
Speaker 1: testing everything. I think, you know, and so okay, that
Speaker 1: did get withdrawn okay good at a later date. So
Speaker 1: she has also attempted suicide. She did end up in
Speaker 1: foster care that was not doing what she wanted it
Speaker 1: for her. So she that was at the time when
Speaker 1: she withdrew the allegations to her father because she wanted
Speaker 1: to go back home and they welcomed her back with
Speaker 1: like open arms. That's like first of showing how awesome
Speaker 1: her parents are. No kidding that it didn't go well
Speaker 1: again living at home. So she at the time of
Speaker 1: her death, she was in a group home situation. So
Speaker 1: it definitely was not all sunshine and roses, no kidding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the night of November fourteenth, nineteen ninety seven was
Speaker 1: when it all went down.
Speaker 2: I remember that day very clearly.
Speaker 1: Do you what were you doing?
Speaker 2: I was no. Actually I was a PlayStation guy, but
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, No, I didn't have PlayStation by then,
Speaker 2: probably playing StarCraft. In fact, I remember it well. It
Speaker 2: was a partly cloudy day, just got home from school
Speaker 2: playing StarCraft in the computer. My mom was yelling at
Speaker 2: me to do homework. Childhood, No, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Rena was attending a party The party was
Speaker 1: in the back field of Shoreline Secondary, you know, pretty
Speaker 1: much the best place to have a party. Of course,
Speaker 1: there was reportedly about thirty kids there. Teenagers. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I guess you're still considered a kid. It got very rowdy,
Speaker 1: as you can imagine. The police were called. They arrived
Speaker 1: and at that point the teens scattered.
Speaker 2: I could see it, like stomp them on nan Hill
Speaker 2: sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Yep. So Rena ended up at the local convenience store
Speaker 1: that was very near and she notified her parents that
Speaker 1: she'd be coming home for the night because it was
Speaker 1: much closer than the group home that she was at
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 2: And her parents, I bet you they were totally cool
Speaker 2: if that weren't they Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah they were. I'd almost just like always seem like
Speaker 1: they're excited whenever she reached out and wanted to come
Speaker 1: home and stuff. So after the phone call with her parents,
Speaker 1: two girls which were allegedly she thought were friends, invited
Speaker 1: her down to Craig Flower Bridge, which was where the party.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you'd say, reconvened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, we're a.
Speaker 1: Bunch of teenagers. Decided to keep it going and at
Speaker 1: that moment. At that moment, she should have just like
Speaker 1: not tried to fit in and just gone home.
Speaker 2: Is this where it starts.
Speaker 1: I hadn't mentioned this yet, but she was accused of
Speaker 1: spreading rumors herself about another girl and trying to steal
Speaker 1: that girl's boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Okay, so classic high school stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so, And that, unfortunately, is basically how
Speaker 1: the attack started. The girl who was subject of the
Speaker 1: rumors spread by Rena started it all out by putting
Speaker 1: a burning cigarette out on Rea's forehead.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's just a dick move all around.
Speaker 1: Wow, that would actually like really hurt one.
Speaker 2: Well yeah I would. You'd burn yourself, well, not yourself,
Speaker 2: but they would burn you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's just the start. So Rena was then
Speaker 1: swarmed by a group of seven girls and one boy,
Speaker 1: all of these people being under the age of sixteen,
Speaker 1: so they're all young, and oh very young. They repeatedly punch, kicked,
Speaker 1: hit Rena for reportedly up to three to five minutes.
Speaker 1: This went on like that is a long time to be.
Speaker 2: So long, like three minutes, Like that's that's a full
Speaker 2: freaking song.
Speaker 1: For yeah, for eight people to be just you know, attacking.
Speaker 2: You right, I think how long is Bohemian Rhapsody that song?
Speaker 2: I think that's slightly over five minutes, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: So basically think getting that your ass kicked for the
Speaker 2: entirety of Bohemian Rhapsody, I know that is just so long.
Speaker 1: There was and there was a crowd around watching this.
Speaker 1: So there was the seven people or eight people sorry,
Speaker 1: attacking Rena and then a crowd watching, which I'm like,
Speaker 1: how on earth did you watch this? But someone in
Speaker 1: the crowd did kind of at one point was like,
Speaker 1: enough's enough and that did end it good. So it
Speaker 1: ended and at that point Rena was was left alive,
Speaker 1: so she she was still alive. She was definitely like
Speaker 1: not doing well of.
Speaker 2: Course, as I could imagine.
Speaker 1: So she was not in good shape, but she was
Speaker 1: going to make her way across the bridge, stumbling and
Speaker 1: trying as best she could to get home because her
Speaker 1: home was on the other side of the bridge. But uh,
Speaker 1: two teens did not leave, So we have we have
Speaker 1: Kelly Ellard and weren't glow out ski. I was have
Speaker 1: trouble pronouncing that we're Glowoutski. So and so they didn't leave.
Speaker 1: And apparently these two individuals didn't even know Rena personally,
Speaker 1: which I have trouble, like, what the heck, what are
Speaker 1: you doing?
Speaker 2: So they they stayed behind. I'm assuming that they're about
Speaker 2: to like jump her or something like that. I already
Speaker 2: hate them. And they didn't even know her.
Speaker 1: They just they didn't know her, and some reports said
Speaker 1: that they just wanted to make sure that she didn't
Speaker 1: rat anyone out, so they stayed back and like followed her.
Speaker 1: So but they didn't like, I mean, she was not
Speaker 1: moving fast. They did catch her on the bridge and
Speaker 1: they kind of brought her across the other bridge or sorry,
Speaker 1: to the other side of the bridge.
Speaker 2: She brought her across well.
Speaker 1: Like escorted her, but like not in a nice way.
Speaker 1: So they're like harassing and pushing it like she's just
Speaker 1: wanting like she's just telling them to fuck off constantly.
Speaker 1: So so they get to the other side of the
Speaker 1: bridge where the attack, an attack starts again, these two
Speaker 1: Kelly and Warren. So attack starts again. They're punching, punching Rina,
Speaker 1: and they end up smashing her head against a tree,
Speaker 1: which leaves her unconscious.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, do we know which one smashed their
Speaker 2: head against the tree?
Speaker 1: No, at that point, I didn't say which one. I
Speaker 1: think it was like both Warren and Kelly were very
Speaker 1: active at that point, but one of them does get
Speaker 1: much worse here. So they dragged Rena's body to the water. Wait, unconscious, right,
Speaker 1: unconscious Kelly or sorry, Reena is not conscious, So Kelly
Speaker 1: help holds Rena's head underwater with her foot. Well, she
Speaker 1: goes into her pocket, gets one of her cigarettes, lights
Speaker 1: the cigarette, and smokes the entire cigarette while holding Rena's
Speaker 1: head under the water with her foot.
Speaker 2: What yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know she thought that she was just
Speaker 1: being really cool or what.
Speaker 2: I don't like, the fuck is that cool?
Speaker 1: I know, like this is like a person.
Speaker 2: I just I just uh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Uh she Wow, Yeah, you're not gonna like her, Ben.
Speaker 2: She's already a seaon next Tuesday. Yeah, you're not gonna
Speaker 2: like her home Wow, okay continue Sorry.
Speaker 1: So come Monday, rumors were flying, despite a pack that
Speaker 1: was made amongst everyone that no one was to say anything,
Speaker 1: of course, Like, I just feel like that's such a
Speaker 1: teenager to think no one's going to say anything. We're
Speaker 1: keeping this quiet. Grena's parents had reported her missing obviously
Speaker 1: because they were expecting her. But there was like a
Speaker 1: forty eight hour period where police wait because generally, especially
Speaker 1: people group worn homes, they do a missing and like
Speaker 1: turn up often, right, So I mean it was just
Speaker 1: the police where we're.
Speaker 2: Waiting, following policy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean that is unfortunate. So police conducted
Speaker 1: numerous interviews over the week while they were doing this. Apparently,
Speaker 1: Kelly reportedly was bragging, giving people tours of the crime
Speaker 1: she seen and showing what she did.
Speaker 2: Of course she was wow, yeah, like she's a real win,
Speaker 2: trash person, real winner. She trash Kelly.
Speaker 1: She was dubbed the nickname killer Kelly.
Speaker 2: There's another word I can think she should be called.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we're not going to go there. No, So
Speaker 1: on November twenty first, so never November twenty first, that's
Speaker 1: seven days after the attack, Kelly Warren and six girls
Speaker 1: were arrested, facing charges from assault to murder. So quite quickly, really,
Speaker 1: I feel like they figured out who was involved.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean with all these rumors flying around with
Speaker 2: kids being like, oh yeah, I was totally doing this
Speaker 2: and Kelly being like, yeah, this is where I killed
Speaker 2: this chick.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh yeah, she's not going to get called
Speaker 1: secret at all. And I just feel like at that age,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean even now, I'm terrible at
Speaker 1: keeping secrets. I would have probably told my parents instantly
Speaker 1: and then their you know, parents get involved. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was the rumors were going through the school too, so
Speaker 1: teachers were were getting involved in such as well.
Speaker 2: Well, I could imagine, well, yeah, you are terrible at
Speaker 2: keeping secret. It's even when it comes to like Christmas.
Speaker 1: Time, something cool, I want to give it to you instantly.
Speaker 2: Suret I'm wearing right now. I literally got for Christmas
Speaker 2: this past Christmas from you, and I knew about it
Speaker 2: like the month prior to.
Speaker 1: Well, I had to make sure you tried it on
Speaker 1: to make sure it fits. Anyways, continue, Yes, Okay, so
Speaker 1: everyone's arrested at this point, but they still have not
Speaker 1: found the body. So the police put a lot of
Speaker 1: effort into that. On the following day, so eight days
Speaker 1: after the murder, Rena's body was found in the water
Speaker 1: about a kilometer from where she was last beaten.
Speaker 2: Jeez, So she was she like pushed into the river
Speaker 2: then or what?
Speaker 1: You know? I never never said anything, but I'm assuming
Speaker 1: like she was pretty much in the water already, so.
Speaker 2: They probably just left her there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I never said if they pushed her down or whatever.
Speaker 1: But she also didn't end up that far from from
Speaker 1: where the attack happened, to kilometers and really that far. No, especially,
Speaker 1: I'm also really surprised no one found found her previously
Speaker 1: to that, I mean, yeah, but anyway, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dive into the autopsy here. This is not great, Okay,
Speaker 1: as expected. So the autopsy, she had severe bruising over
Speaker 1: her entire skull, forehead, ears and cheeks, swellen brain, an
Speaker 1: imprint of a running shoe on her head, consistent with
Speaker 1: stomping or kicking, which I imagine is the imprint of
Speaker 1: Kelly's foot holding her down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, while she smokes a fucking cigarette thinking she's cool shit.
Speaker 1: And she's like, yeah, queen Bee or whatever she wants
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's a bee, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Severe bruising on pelvis, stomach, liver and pancreas Jesus, and
Speaker 1: pebble's lodge in the throat consistent with someone drowning face
Speaker 1: down in shallow water. So yeah, like she wasn't she
Speaker 1: was still alive, but she obviously was underwater, still trying to.
Speaker 2: Breathe, right, yeah, Well, unconscious or not, your reflex is
Speaker 2: going to be to try and breathe.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she's being held down by Kelly and she's
Speaker 2: trying to breathe. Whether she's conscious, I don't, I mean,
Speaker 2: do you know didn't say like she was struggling at
Speaker 2: that point.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think that she was struggling.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so she's probably unconscious, just trying to breathe
Speaker 2: exactly graveling. Oh my god, that's horrible. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: Oh no, I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 2: I can't hold my breath in the bathtub for like
Speaker 2: thirty seconds, let alone being forced down by something like how.
Speaker 1: Long would it take to smoke a cigarette? I think
Speaker 1: it would take like a good three to five minutes
Speaker 1: when it depending on I've never actually.
Speaker 2: Depending on how fast you're going. If you're in a
Speaker 2: coffee break, I'm sure you're trying to smoke that sucker
Speaker 2: pretty fast.
Speaker 1: But if you're just casually out, oh yeah, she was
Speaker 1: probably just being as casual as she could be. So
Speaker 1: obviously Rena her the final doom was drownding, but she
Speaker 1: It was also reported that she most likely wouldn't have
Speaker 1: survived with the brain injury that she had.
Speaker 2: So wow, I know, poor Rena, No kidding.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. Just I just it's so
Speaker 1: bad for her, like fourteen years old, and that's just
Speaker 1: like a tragic thing to happen to her parents and
Speaker 1: her family.
Speaker 2: Like and you said this was like a major case,
Speaker 2: like that's been like all over the news and stuff before.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, because the freaking trial is just a
Speaker 1: complete shit show. Kelly is constantly in the news. I've
Speaker 1: never heard of this case, Like I means over person,
Speaker 1: but she's completely overshadowed, shadowed Rena just just because her
Speaker 1: freaking quirt. It's just like a disaster. I'm about to
Speaker 1: dive into that. Well, actually I'm diving into the other
Speaker 1: people so before Kelly, because I like the other people better.
Speaker 1: Not that I like them, but you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean in this case where you're saving
Speaker 2: the worst for life exactly.
Speaker 1: So the following year trials begin February nineteen ninety eight
Speaker 1: six girls from the original attack. They were all charged
Speaker 1: with assault causing bodily harm, and it ranged from sixty
Speaker 1: to one year in youth custody. Of what they got
Speaker 1: so they're not named because they're under the Young Offenders Act.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not adults.
Speaker 1: So some of them have since come forward and opened
Speaker 1: up because I mean there's been like books written and
Speaker 1: documentaries and stuff, and so some of them have come
Speaker 1: forward with their their names, like Nicole Cook is one
Speaker 1: that I can remember offhand, but I think there was
Speaker 1: at least three or so that came forward.
Speaker 2: Good on them. I mean, you're a shitty person at
Speaker 2: that age, but clearly you're you're grown out of something
Speaker 2: and you're becoming a better person. So good on them
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: But then it's also, okay, this is just me being terrible.
Speaker 1: I think, I know, the guilt will just eat you away.
Speaker 1: But then you're also ruining your life two by coming forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they also ruined Riena's life. They did, so
Speaker 2: they're doing the right thing they are.
Speaker 1: But they have this Young Offenders Act for reasons so
Speaker 1: that you can still kind of have a life going forward. Maybe,
Speaker 1: but no, no, honestly, it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: It's the right thing.
Speaker 2: I know you're going to get to it, so you
Speaker 2: don't don't say anything response. But I really hope that
Speaker 2: Kelly didn't fall under this and that she gets like
Speaker 2: some serious shit here, So I just won't throw that
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Continue well, considering we already know her name, we know
Speaker 1: her name right that that's right there, saying that they
Speaker 1: faced much worse and their offense was so brutal that
Speaker 1: they were tried in adult court and that's why we
Speaker 1: know both of their names. So yeah, no, it was
Speaker 1: not good.
Speaker 2: I didn't put that together. So you could have just left.
Speaker 1: Me in suspense because he gave me a blank look like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean why? How is it obvious?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But no, now I gotcha. Okay, Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Warren Warren, I don't know he I feel
Speaker 1: like a little bit bad for him, which I just shouldn't,
Speaker 1: but I just do. So. His parents stayed together basically
Speaker 1: to raise him. They did end up getting a divorce
Speaker 1: at some point in time. His mom was an alcoholic,
Speaker 1: so he was living with his dad. But his dad
Speaker 1: ended up meeting someone when he was in vague and
Speaker 1: moved to California to be with this woman.
Speaker 2: Classic love story right there.
Speaker 1: But Warren didn't want to go because he wanted to
Speaker 1: stay behind with his girlfriend, and so the dad went anyway,
Speaker 1: and so at the time of the murder, like Warren
Speaker 1: was living alone.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, so he did not have like the greatest
Speaker 2: atmosphere as a young adult.
Speaker 1: Not really. I mean, like you're sixteen years old and
Speaker 1: you're living alone. It did say that the dad sent
Speaker 1: him regular checks and that Warren's girlfriend's mom would make
Speaker 1: him meals and do his laundry and stuff. So I
Speaker 1: can't he had some support, but I just feel like
Speaker 1: that's a little bit young to be living on your own.
Speaker 2: That's like minimal support. Though you have financial support and
Speaker 2: someone's doing your laundry and making meals, you don't have
Speaker 2: someone there when you need them. Oh no, hey dad,
Speaker 2: can you help me with my homework?
Speaker 1: You don't have that, no, or someone even reminding you
Speaker 1: to do your homework kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: Or you know, wash your sheets. Yeah, you might be
Speaker 2: doing laundry, but do you remember to wash your sheets?
Speaker 2: You know, Hey, it's nine o'clock, it's getting late. You
Speaker 2: gotta get up early. You don't have any sort of
Speaker 2: family support to you, support, nothing.
Speaker 1: It's just too young to be living on your own.
Speaker 2: So it's a bad situation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was also part of a local gang and to
Speaker 1: be brought into this gang, he had to endure a
Speaker 1: brutal beating, so I almost feel like just the beating
Speaker 1: mentality or attacking mentality was just part of maybe his
Speaker 1: normal day to day life. And then for him being
Speaker 1: at the attack, he was basically at the wrong place
Speaker 1: at the wrong time. He was there because of his girlfriend,
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend ended up actually not feeling well and
Speaker 1: going home, but and he offered to walk her home,
Speaker 1: but she said, don't worry about it, which later she
Speaker 1: said she super regrets because I mean, if he let
Speaker 1: her walk her home, he would not be in this situation.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's mistake right there. When you lady says no,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it, you worry about it, you.
Speaker 1: Do it well. Yeah, honestly, something else would have ended
Speaker 1: happening that would have made the girlfriend mad, probably.
Speaker 2: Right hashtag always hashtag always honey, Are you upset? No,
Speaker 2: I'm fine. Yeah, you follow through, you make sure you
Speaker 2: do the right thing. Whyse you're in the doghouse.
Speaker 1: So Warren, yeh, fucked up. That was number one fuck up.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm trying to earn the Brandie point.
Speaker 1: So okay. In April nineteen ninety nine was when his
Speaker 1: course court journey started. He pleaded not guilty. He admitted participation,
Speaker 1: but said he had no idea Kelly was planning to
Speaker 1: kill Rena. I mean, I also don't really know if
Speaker 1: Kelly went out planning to kill Rena, but he was
Speaker 1: definitely part of the situation, yeah, for sure. So in
Speaker 1: June he was found guilty. He was found guilty of
Speaker 1: second degree murder. He got life in prison without parole
Speaker 1: for at least seven years, which is the maximum.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you got the max.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's interesting if they had been so
Speaker 1: they are tried an adult court, but their age still
Speaker 1: help them because if they were say I think it
Speaker 1: was eighteen, that the maximum would have been life in
Speaker 1: prison with at least ten years. So like their age,
Speaker 1: them being young and stuff. Though they were tried as adults,
Speaker 1: it's still I guess help them.
Speaker 2: It was a factor. It was a factor. But yeah, okay, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of dates here.
Speaker 2: Let's hear these dates.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, he appealed, but he did lose,
Speaker 1: and they said, you know, you actively took part in
Speaker 1: this murder, which yeah you did, Yeah you did. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, he applied for day parol, which
Speaker 1: he was denied. Two thousand and six, he was granted
Speaker 1: unescorted temporary absences from prison.
Speaker 2: Oh pancy, I know you know what?
Speaker 1: Okay, this is like, I just find this all just
Speaker 1: doesn't make much sense because you're put like in life
Speaker 1: in prison, but then you end up getting I.
Speaker 2: Don't know, there's a lot of cases like that, but
Speaker 2: it's like, Oh, you go into jail for life. Oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, would you like to go to the
Speaker 2: fair this weekend. We're gonna get you some cotton candy,
Speaker 2: have a dandy old time, play some games.
Speaker 1: So I just life in prison. I just don't think
Speaker 1: is life in prison?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly isn't at this point.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and seven he was granted full
Speaker 1: day parole, and then oh I gotta flip my page here. Sorry.
Speaker 1: In twenty ten he was granted like full parole, So
Speaker 1: like done.
Speaker 2: Basically, I like how we have laptops and phones and
Speaker 2: all this stuff, but we're still like going to old
Speaker 2: school and writing our notes on paper.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like one day maybe I'll do
Speaker 1: a tablet, but I don't know. It's kind of nice
Speaker 1: writing it out.
Speaker 2: I definitely I love the field of paper.
Speaker 1: I feel like you would actually probably fuck up more laptop.
Speaker 2: I think it would take me a lot longer to
Speaker 2: like type it out too, probably with just a job.
Speaker 1: Notes I did because my notes were just a freaking disaster.
Speaker 1: I probably rewrote these like one or two times. So
Speaker 1: I mean, if you did it on the computer, I
Speaker 1: would save you that that.
Speaker 2: Amount of time, right plus plus post it notes take
Speaker 2: a look great there in my notes. I have post
Speaker 2: it notes everywhere for additional information. I that's not organized technically,
Speaker 2: it is because post it notes help you organize post
Speaker 2: it notes. There's an AD's.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is kind of cool because they feel
Speaker 1: like so weren't just like the poster child of what
Speaker 1: a person should be like in prison. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: throw that out there. He put a lot of work
Speaker 1: into himself and others while in prison, Like he's he
Speaker 1: did good. He took rehabilitation courses. He discovered he was
Speaker 1: of METI heritage while in prison, and he did this
Speaker 1: is like super cool. He did a restorative justice program
Speaker 1: with Rena's parents, and I hadn't even heard of this,
Speaker 1: so basically he they they met numerous times Rena's parents.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've told you already they're awesome people because
Speaker 1: they also were active participants in this. So they met
Speaker 1: with him. He personally apologized to them, and he realized
Speaker 1: the pain that he caused.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's too little, too late, but I don't
Speaker 2: think that's kind of their mentality, which is very impressive.
Speaker 2: Good on them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Sueman tells reporters, we would have hoped something
Speaker 1: would have or somebody would have learned something from this
Speaker 1: whole thing, basically meaning that Warren did.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then Warren telling Suman and man Jeet that he
Speaker 1: aspired to be as caring and selfless as they were,
Speaker 1: Like it was just seemed like they just got this
Speaker 1: all around good relationship. There were stories where they would
Speaker 1: shake hands, they give each other hugs, like they just
Speaker 1: like really helped him and Warren like he just accepted
Speaker 1: their help and they had. I mean, it was probably
Speaker 1: not the best rely relationship, but as good as it
Speaker 1: could have gotten.
Speaker 2: I think like a Hallmark movie needs to be made
Speaker 2: about these parents, not necessarily surrounding this case, but like
Speaker 2: they need to be like characters in a Hallmark movie
Speaker 2: because they're just like wholesome as fuck. Right, shit, I.
Speaker 1: Know they're distrected. I'm going to go on about them.
Speaker 2: Let's hear it. I want to hear more good stuff.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say this at the end, but you
Speaker 1: know what, let's dive in here. So Rena, as I said,
Speaker 1: they were just amazing. I mean they were amazing because
Speaker 1: they gave Rena so many chances I feel like when
Speaker 1: she did some not great things. Also with how they
Speaker 1: handled this Warren situation, and so they turned their grief
Speaker 1: into a national anti bullying campaign. They shared stories in
Speaker 1: schools across Canada and really turned their daughter's legacy into
Speaker 1: something that could help others. Farted, Can you don't smell that?
Speaker 1: It is just thru our dog is just the worst?
Speaker 1: So good job, rip the worst. Okay. So shared stories
Speaker 1: and schools across Canada and really helped turn turn their
Speaker 1: daughters like still smell it. It's really distracting, like really distracting, Okay,
Speaker 1: So whatever, So they really just like turn their dogs
Speaker 1: legacy into something to help others, which is just fantastic.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're you're letting your daughter live on that
Speaker 2: way too, right, which is incredible.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and making it so that maybe something like
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen to someone else's kid.
Speaker 2: Right, hopefully and ideally Yeah wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, but and oh my goodness, I'm just gonna have
Speaker 1: to tell you people this and it's really shitty, but
Speaker 1: I just have to get off my chest, like for
Speaker 1: them being such awesome people, something else bad really happened.
Speaker 1: Oh so, Suman, which is the mom of Rena, I
Speaker 1: think it was twenty eighteen. I just came across in
Speaker 1: my research she died from choking in a restaurant. What
Speaker 1: I was, like, what the heck, We're so awesome, they've
Speaker 1: already been put through the frickin' ringer.
Speaker 2: No kidding.
Speaker 1: Can she maybe just go have a nice meal and
Speaker 1: not choke and not die?
Speaker 2: Right? Oh wow? That's ah. Rena's father is probably just
Speaker 2: like he lost everything now No.
Speaker 1: I mean he still does have two kids, Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so hopefully they're close it. Actually it's interesting and all
Speaker 1: the research I never came across anything about the other
Speaker 1: two kids, so that's really.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily a case about them.
Speaker 1: So no, it's not.
Speaker 2: I'm sure if you looked them up you could find
Speaker 2: maybe some stuff about them.
Speaker 1: Totally, So that's it for Warren. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: jumping into the story of Kelly.
Speaker 2: You're ready, I'm ready lay it on me.
Speaker 1: Okay. So just to like give a little bit of
Speaker 1: back history about Kelly, she was definitely had a more stable,
Speaker 1: traditional family upbringing. She was of middle class. Her parents
Speaker 1: were divorced, but her mom did remarry to a really
Speaker 1: awesome guy, and she just all around seemed like she
Speaker 1: had a happy home life, which was unlike Warren. Really well,
Speaker 1: I mean, Warren didn't have a bad home life, but
Speaker 1: it just wasn't quite as traditional as Kelly's. Gotcha, she
Speaker 1: did hung out, hang out with a rougher crowd, and
Speaker 1: got in trouble at school. There was other bullying events
Speaker 1: also reported. One of them, it's just coming back. I
Speaker 1: don't even have a certain dam just coming back to
Speaker 1: my brain. But it was just a couple months before Rena,
Speaker 1: and there was a couple other people involved. It wasn't
Speaker 1: just her, but they attempted to light someone's hair on fire.
Speaker 1: What so, like, this just wasn't the first act. She
Speaker 1: just wasn't a good she wasn't. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: just talking about how her upbringing and had a good
Speaker 1: home life, but she still was a good person.
Speaker 2: So she's known to bully people, tries to light some
Speaker 2: kid's hair on fire. What did the school system or
Speaker 2: her parents do about this?
Speaker 1: I don't know because also in the hair lighting incident,
Speaker 1: there was two others involved. They got something happened to them.
Speaker 1: I didn't dive too deeply into it, but she didn't
Speaker 1: get anything.
Speaker 2: What how do you not get anything trying to light
Speaker 2: hair on fire?
Speaker 1: Of what class she's in, you know, like she's I
Speaker 1: think she's hanging out with people in lower class, and
Speaker 1: then they're taking the brunt at the blame.
Speaker 2: Maybe still her parents be like at home, at home.
Speaker 1: She should Yeah, I don't know. And so yeah, her court,
Speaker 1: her court history is just like a shit show. Like
Speaker 1: I have eleven pages of notes and I'm only on
Speaker 1: page nine. So we get to spend a little bit
Speaker 1: of time talking about Kelly, which is so exciting.
Speaker 2: Not really because she's a bitch.
Speaker 1: So her or her court started much court incident history whatever,
Speaker 1: so much later it started March two thousand because initially
Speaker 1: they just appealed the decision to be have her tried
Speaker 1: as an an adult court h okay, like whatever, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: what are you appealing? She did a terrible thing like
Speaker 1: that just has to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she I mean, she should be tried in adult court, like,
Speaker 2: no problem, Like, look what she did. She did some
Speaker 2: very adult shit, and there's like stuff leading up to it.
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree that she should be tried
Speaker 2: an adult court. And in fact, they tried to appeal it.
Speaker 2: I mean I understand them trying to.
Speaker 1: I mean that's good lawyers.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, she did get tried an adult court though. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm glad that they didn't go through the appeal.
Speaker 1: So March two thousand, trial started convicted, and she was
Speaker 1: convicted of second degree murder. She got life sentenced with
Speaker 1: at least five years behind bars, which she can before
Speaker 1: she can apply for parole. But that's the minimum. Remember
Speaker 1: Warren got seven years ago. Yeah, so she honestly should
Speaker 1: have just stayed at that, but they didn't. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, a new trial was ordered, saying that
Speaker 1: the crown failed to give her a failed fair trial
Speaker 1: because apparently the same question was asked to her eighteen
Speaker 1: different times or.
Speaker 2: Something, so she should have the same answer eighteen different times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically a new trial was ordered, but she
Speaker 1: got to have bail, which I was like, what the
Speaker 1: freak why does this chicken to have bail? And it
Speaker 1: was the worst decision they ever could make because she
Speaker 1: was connected with a beating apparently her she was She
Speaker 1: was drinking with someone in a Vancouver park. They invited
Speaker 1: a older like to drink with them, but then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, one of them couldn't find their cell phone,
Speaker 1: and so they just right away accused this older woman
Speaker 1: of stealing it and beat the crap out of her.
Speaker 2: Are you serious?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, like she had, she just hasn't changed. She
Speaker 1: just hadn't changed at all. So two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: her second trial started. I just have a little quote
Speaker 1: here because she I don't know, I'm maybe being biased here,
Speaker 1: but she's mean. So this is just like a total
Speaker 1: mean girl quote. I'm obviously going to be convicted. You
Speaker 1: got what you wanted. My life is ruined.
Speaker 2: Oh her life is ruined. Oh yeah, it's all about
Speaker 2: her life that's being ruined right now. Wow, Okay, we
Speaker 2: can definitely tell her attitude perspective.
Speaker 1: So but guess what. That trial ended in a mistrial
Speaker 1: because the jury couldn't make a decision apparently, out of
Speaker 1: the twelve people in the jury, eleven were on one
Speaker 1: side and one was on the other. It didn't say
Speaker 1: what side they were on, but I'm assuming eleven thought
Speaker 1: that she was guilty, and I guess one person didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, kind of douche Canoe can't realize that there's like,
Speaker 2: she's admitted this stuff.
Speaker 1: I know that she.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's killer Kelly. She went around saying and everything.
Speaker 1: I mean and yeah, and there was tons of people
Speaker 1: like witnesses testifying.
Speaker 2: And how do you not Okay, there's literal proof in
Speaker 2: front of my eyes. I'm not sure, you know.
Speaker 1: I find that just weird, like that person fucked up.
Speaker 2: No kidding anyway, and if there was like some bribery
Speaker 2: or some shit going on, I know, in the scenes.
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, this is probably so wrong of
Speaker 1: me to say, but if I was in a situation
Speaker 1: where like eleven people were like so adamant of something
Speaker 1: that I would just probably be like, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, well, I mean that's not technically right, not.
Speaker 1: Right, But like, especially in this case, obviously she's guilty,
Speaker 1: Like what are you thinking she's not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like she's full and admitted this. There's witnesses, there's
Speaker 2: evidence like wow.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so that was a freaking disaster. So then she
Speaker 1: gets to have a third trial. Oh man, in two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, the third trial. So she was fifteen
Speaker 1: at the first charge. Now she's twenty two.
Speaker 2: So and all this time, other than the one time
Speaker 2: when she beat the crap, I have an old lady
Speaker 2: in the park. She's been behind bars.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because after she beat the crap at that
Speaker 1: it's fifty eight old. Come on, Ben, it's old to me.
Speaker 2: I'm thirty.
Speaker 1: After that beating, she did get put back into jail.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: So this two thousand and five trial she gets the
Speaker 1: max she so she gets to she must serve seven
Speaker 1: years before she can see parole. So I mean, like,
Speaker 1: if she just stayed with this March two thousand thing,
Speaker 1: you know, you would have been better off. Yeah, no kidding, Okay,
Speaker 1: but that's not even it. What There was almost a
Speaker 1: fourth trial. It went through a lot of steps, but
Speaker 1: thankfully it was denied apparently the trial judge. It was
Speaker 1: stated the trial judged not properly instruct the jury. So
Speaker 1: they even tried to get fourth one. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: how many freaking chances.
Speaker 2: Do you need here, no kidding.
Speaker 1: It was eleven years for the case to work through
Speaker 1: the legal system, which is just, and it was the
Speaker 1: parents I mean had talked about that too, because that
Speaker 1: it's just like such a long amount of time for
Speaker 1: them to not really have closed closure, because every time
Speaker 1: this is in the news or in the trial, there's
Speaker 1: reporters and stuff and newspeople wanting to contact the parents
Speaker 1: and like get their opinions. They rest they could not
Speaker 1: rest I mean the amount of money that this cost,
Speaker 1: tax based stuff, like excuse ma.
Speaker 2: Because Kelly's a big old c Next Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she did waive her right for parole four times,
Speaker 1: which I guess is like a common thing to do
Speaker 1: if if you think that you're not ready, if you
Speaker 1: don't think you have a chance anyway, well.
Speaker 2: She shouldn't have had a chance.
Speaker 1: She could. She continued to proclaim, you bump the mic
Speaker 1: I did. She continued to proclaim her innocence throughout like
Speaker 1: numerous years. She never apologized to the family, and apparently
Speaker 1: she just I don't even understand how this works, but
Speaker 1: she like for a whole year especially, it was just
Speaker 1: like a druggie. I don't even understand how they get
Speaker 1: drugs in prison. But yeah, what the hell, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not even the worst and what she did in.
Speaker 2: Prison system, maybe you might want to fucking look into
Speaker 2: that shit, especially if it's documented that she was a
Speaker 2: drug an, like a whole.
Speaker 1: Year she was like addicted some serious drugs.
Speaker 2: Shee wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah so she yeah, just I mean, the opposite
Speaker 1: of Warren. Really. But in May of twenty sixteen, she
Speaker 1: finally did apply for day parol, which she was denied.
Speaker 1: But at that point it did seem like some progress
Speaker 1: was made for her accepting the responsibility of what she did.
Speaker 2: Well, I would hope she should have made that progress
Speaker 2: long time ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it took her quite a while. Really, Okay, but this,
Speaker 1: so this is just nuts because saying.
Speaker 2: How can this is nuts? What do you mean we
Speaker 2: haven't heard anything yet?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so how we were just talking about
Speaker 1: how she got drugs in prison. It was later announced
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen that she had a baby. Kelly had
Speaker 1: a baby.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what, Kati, You.
Speaker 1: Want to know how this happened?
Speaker 2: So prior to so mommy and a daddy got together.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I think you know how that happened. But
Speaker 1: how she's in prison, how did she like have a baby.
Speaker 1: So she developed a pen pal relationship with a male
Speaker 1: inmate from a neighboring prison, which I just don't even
Speaker 1: quite understand how that happens. And it was approved for
Speaker 1: them to have a private conjugal visit when he was
Speaker 1: out on day parl And so these conjugal visits, they
Speaker 1: seem like a normal thing. But I seem it seemed
Speaker 1: like it was more so. I mean, you get together
Speaker 1: with your parents. It's just a way of you kind
Speaker 1: of getting into the groove of one day being able
Speaker 1: to go back into a normal society. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean I feel like, how is this approved. I don't
Speaker 1: feel like it's a you can go have a rendezvous
Speaker 1: with your friggin.
Speaker 2: A lot of situations of conjugal visits being like your
Speaker 2: your spouse is coming to visit you.
Speaker 1: In like yeah, so they just have like a little
Speaker 1: rendezvous in a fancy little cabin, you.
Speaker 2: Know, wow, some and good times.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I just don't agree with that.
Speaker 2: I don't either, but I mean it is what it is.
Speaker 1: So the following year after she's a mom, she is
Speaker 1: approved day release for doctor's appointments. Parenting programs, et cetera.
Speaker 1: As her and her baby were living in the prison,
Speaker 1: there's this they have a little area where moms can
Speaker 1: basically raise their kids in prison. And actually there's some
Speaker 1: photos that actually clearly nice. So I mean, at least
Speaker 1: the kid is having a good worth bringing. I guess
Speaker 1: it's I don't know when you say that they're in prison,
Speaker 1: but I mean it's like a nursery set up in prison,
Speaker 1: so the baby has what it needs.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not the child dud's fault. It's been
Speaker 2: brought into this world there. So I mean they have
Speaker 2: a good environment for the kid. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1: So it was reported that the baby had a very
Speaker 1: positive impact on Kelly's life. It was the best therapy
Speaker 1: that she could ask for, which I don't really know
Speaker 1: of having a kid should be like your therapy.
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean as long as it worked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she I did. I forgot to say this. She
Speaker 1: did actually change her name from Kelly to Carrie sim
Speaker 1: She's had a second baby, yes, with the same of course,
Speaker 1: the same dad and as of right now, so she
Speaker 1: does a LIT. She LIT can live away from a
Speaker 1: residential facility for up to five days each week, so
Speaker 1: she's like pretty much out really, So for like two
Speaker 1: days of the week she is locked up or maybe
Speaker 1: in like a halfway house or whatever. But for five days, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just a normal person in society with a new
Speaker 1: name of Carrie sim.
Speaker 2: Although she's supposed to be behind bars. Yeah for life, Like,
Speaker 2: like you said, life in prison doesn't mean shit.
Speaker 1: It's not life in prison. I feel like it's almost
Speaker 1: like the parole date is more so what you get.
Speaker 1: I don't know, okay, but this is a quote from
Speaker 1: the parole board, which I'm going to leave everyone at
Speaker 1: because it just like it kind of just hit me
Speaker 1: right in the fields. So the parole board said, the
Speaker 1: fact that the birth of your child has given you
Speaker 1: a purpose in life is tragically ironic, as you ended
Speaker 1: the life of another mother's child.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, Like that's hitting the nail on the head.
Speaker 2: Wow boom oh I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's good that she finally realized what
Speaker 1: she done and her having a kid made her realize that.
Speaker 1: I guess, like it was just good that it got realized.
Speaker 2: But I was just like, but still, she took someone's
Speaker 2: life about it, thought it was cool didn't apologize for
Speaker 2: how long and then fought all this time.
Speaker 1: And her being out there was some stipulation she had
Speaker 1: to follow. She couldn't contact Rena's family, which good, which
Speaker 1: right there shows that they don't have any relationship, not
Speaker 1: like Rena's family did with Warren. And she cauldn't be
Speaker 1: doing any drugs or having alcoholic.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's an everyday person thing. Don't do drugs.
Speaker 2: They're illegal. That shouldn't be like a, hey, just so
Speaker 2: you know you're not supposed to do drugs. That's just
Speaker 2: a you should know that already.
Speaker 1: So that's the story, the very tragic story of Rena
Speaker 1: passing away at fourteen years old.
Speaker 2: Wow, all because of bullying.
Speaker 1: I know. I mean, And it's kind of the story
Speaker 1: is good in a way that I'm just hoping it that.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's probably affected other people's decisions to
Speaker 1: maybe not bully. I hope so, especially the parents did
Speaker 1: so much work. And the really cool thing actually is
Speaker 1: so we're putting this out on gosh, what is the
Speaker 1: date of it going to be?
Speaker 2: Well, on Tuesday?
Speaker 1: Tuesday, I don't know. Is that the twenty third?
Speaker 2: I think? So I have my calendar here just let
Speaker 2: me get it. Twenty third, Yeah, it's a twenty third.
Speaker 1: And then the twenty fourth is pink shirt Day.
Speaker 2: Funny how that works out?
Speaker 1: Hey, I know, I oh, I'm slipping away from my microphone.
Speaker 1: I did not plan that onsoever.
Speaker 2: It works out good though, So we should make sure
Speaker 2: that we get a photo of us in pink shirts
Speaker 2: up on Instagram.
Speaker 1: So the story is still carrying on because we're putting
Speaker 1: out a podcast that's talking about this story. And don't bully,
Speaker 1: don't be a jerk. Just be a kind person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't be asking too much my life motto. And
Speaker 2: don't be Kelly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, be a person like her normal killer Kelly. Don't
Speaker 1: be a killer Kelly.
Speaker 2: Another C word, Kelly.
Speaker 1: So that's a wrap.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, that is a good I mean, not a
Speaker 2: good case, don't get me wrong. I ask something I meant
Speaker 2: to say. That was an interesting case. That was a
Speaker 2: harsh case, but a good episode. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I will. I'll definitely be putting a
Speaker 1: picture of Rena up on our Instagram.
Speaker 2: And not Kelly. She can fuck off.
Speaker 1: No, Kelly has just got enough. I feel like she's
Speaker 1: got too much attention. And it was like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: done with her, So we'll put up a photo of
Speaker 1: Rina so everyone can see her. And yeah, we'll put
Speaker 1: something up about Anti Bullying Day and get where can
Speaker 1: people find us? Ben, Oh, you.
Speaker 2: Can find us at Wicked and Grim on Instagram. We
Speaker 2: gotta get a website. Don here pretty quick too.
Speaker 1: Actually boom, Yeah, so go.
Speaker 2: Head over, take a look at those Instagram posts and
Speaker 2: tell everyone, or tell Nicole how she did on her
Speaker 2: first episode. I think you did.
Speaker 1: Awesome, perfect. So that's a wrap, and we'll finish it
Speaker 1: off with Oh.
Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, I can't yet why I told him
Speaker 2: I was going to say what the next episode was
Speaker 2: at the beginning, didn't I? I think I did it
Speaker 2: the next episode. I had someone at work mentioned this
Speaker 2: to me and I was like, I'm diving into it
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. It's the Mad Trapper of rat River.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say anything else until you get so.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2: But we're going to record this in about five minutes
Speaker 2: and you guys are going to hear it next week.
Speaker 2: So until then, stay Wicked, Stay Wicked,