Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What what's going to happen? I think, what's going to.
Speaker 1: Help before we're like, So they're there to bring the
Speaker 1: mission to the lodge itself and bring it to tent
Speaker 1: and get the work done, whether they're bringing new people
Speaker 1: in at certain points to initiate them up, or they
Speaker 1: have an inner lodge that has its own purpose trying
Speaker 1: to do its own magic, whatever that might be. And
Speaker 1: the problem is these lodges are in all of these
Speaker 1: groups in order to say because you know, you form
Speaker 1: a lodge on the Internet by opening up a Facebook
Speaker 1: group and you know, so they're not being run by adepts.
Speaker 1: They're running by being run by kids that don't know anything.
Speaker 1: You know, the adepts already lived, you know, a full life.
Speaker 1: The adepts you know done, the readings done, the writings done,
Speaker 1: the creativity can show you the work and you know
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's just not what's going on in
Speaker 1: these groups. As a matter of fact, you can see
Speaker 1: them all day. That's why they can only post pictures.
Speaker 1: But Crowley or whatever group they're in, whoever the hero
Speaker 1: is in that group.
Speaker 3: That is one thing I noticed about the OTO was like,
Speaker 3: they love it. I mean, I get it. I get that,
Speaker 3: it's whatever he was associated with it. But I was like, like,
Speaker 3: I feel like they all would take turns sucking as
Speaker 3: dick if they could.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, the trans ones that and if you get me
Speaker 1: started and that, we're really gonna go.
Speaker 3: Because we'll both get going on that, because that was
Speaker 3: one of the reasons why I left too, because they started.
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, what the fuck is going on here?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, listen, you know what I'm saying up your pants?
Speaker 1: I want to know what's gonna be there.
Speaker 2: Oh that is funny. That is funny.
Speaker 3: All right, So you know what, we'll we as fun
Speaker 3: as this is, we'll get into some gnosticism.
Speaker 2: Uh okay, just for the listeners, just in case if
Speaker 2: they don't know.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah to me Nick from the Occult Rejects, and
Speaker 3: I got Lisa the Occult reject Mad Scientists with US
Speaker 3: co hosting, and today, I'm very very happy to get
Speaker 3: this guest on. He reached out to me, and I'm
Speaker 3: just so grateful. It's wild how that happened. As soon
Speaker 3: as I checked this stuff out, I had even told Lisa,
Speaker 3: I said, yoh, this guy is gonna be perfect for
Speaker 3: this show, and I'm probably gonna want them on multiple times.
Speaker 3: And we've already been been bullshitting for twenty minutes and
Speaker 3: it's great.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: We got I guess, author and director of the Church
Speaker 3: of LVX, Paul Joseph Ravelli, real quick, just to give
Speaker 3: give you a couple of ideas. You know, I did
Speaker 3: mention he was an author. He does have a lot
Speaker 3: of Thelemic stuff. He has the Starry Gnosis and American Revelation.
Speaker 3: He's got the whole Magic workbook, the Lima and the
Speaker 3: Secret Doctrine, Theosophy and Thelema. He's got three volumes at that,
Speaker 3: and he's got insights on liber seven and a bunch
Speaker 3: of all the other books. But uh, definitely gonna go
Speaker 3: check out his his list of books. Some interesting stuff there.
Speaker 3: We got him on to talk about gnosticism, and I'm
Speaker 3: really really excited to be able to talk about that
Speaker 3: because I just keeping it real from the interviews he's done,
Speaker 3: He's the real deal to me, so I'm very excited
Speaker 3: to have him come on and actually have a Gnostic.
Speaker 2: Talk about gnosticism.
Speaker 3: So, uh, Paul, real quick, maybe if you want just
Speaker 3: let people know like maybe what you deal is what
Speaker 3: you do, and if there's any way they can contact
Speaker 3: you or anything you want to promote your books, your church,
Speaker 3: please let everybody know what what's up with you?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, Paul Joseph Rovaly rovellis and we actually pronounced
Speaker 1: the LVX as L like the Gnostic Church of Light,
Speaker 1: so that you know, we get it a little formal there,
Speaker 1: but whatever, I'm an author and a founder, the founder
Speaker 1: of the Gnostic Church of Light. It is a fully owned,
Speaker 1: no mortgage building and the first fully owned building Gnostic
Speaker 1: on the continents of the Americas. So I think we
Speaker 1: have something very profound here in that we are representing
Speaker 1: a modern form of narcissism, not ancient gnoscissism. We don't
Speaker 1: hate the world at all, as a matter of fact, indeed,
Speaker 1: we love it. In contrast with the ancient Gnostics that
Speaker 1: might that teach that the spirit is trapped in matter,
Speaker 1: we say, no, the spirit is liberated in matter, and
Speaker 1: that that's really the key to what we're what our
Speaker 1: mission is, i'd say, And we're trying to break new
Speaker 1: ground here in the northeastern woods of the United States,
Speaker 1: where all of this country's new religion started everything from
Speaker 1: Transcendentalism to Mormonism. So we're in this fertile ground. We
Speaker 1: managed to get this building and it's opened me up
Speaker 1: to so much in that I've come to see the
Speaker 1: value of the generation of ideas and what that is
Speaker 1: in terms of leading one to nosis.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, well, I guess it's kind of
Speaker 3: like two questions in one, but like what made you
Speaker 3: want to start your church? And like did you did
Speaker 3: you feel that your church would be different than like
Speaker 3: I guess I had something different to offer them other places,
Speaker 3: kind of like.
Speaker 1: Like you're you're up or right bart there. Let's put
Speaker 1: it this way. You're twenty five to thirty five years old,
Speaker 1: you're married, maybe you have one baby already and you
Speaker 1: got another one coming. You're on that you're on the
Speaker 1: ladder trying to get into management or whatever. You're building
Speaker 1: your career, and you've got this young family and you
Speaker 1: want to bring them to some kind of spiritual instruction.
Speaker 1: So you got the family up, you go to one
Speaker 1: of today's present day churches, and you know, after you
Speaker 1: get done with the ones that entertain you with rock
Speaker 1: and roll bands and all that other crap. You're going
Speaker 1: to be told that because you got laid in the
Speaker 1: back seat of your car when you were sixteen, that
Speaker 1: you are condemned to hell forever and everybody that you
Speaker 1: ever slept with before you got married to Jesus. And
Speaker 1: you just walk out of those places and you feel dirty.
Speaker 1: There's nothing spiritual about that. But to have a place where,
Speaker 1: first of all, we're going to search for your genius.
Speaker 1: We're gonna help you facilitate the development of your own genius.
Speaker 1: We're going to tell you that you're the divine one here.
Speaker 1: You know, we're not there to worship any god or gods.
Speaker 1: We have holy texts and sacred ideas and we talk
Speaker 1: about philosophy, but we create sacred space so that you
Speaker 1: can take your family with this idea of joy. And
Speaker 1: that's what you should get out of religion. That's spirituality.
Speaker 1: That's no sense when you know who you are difference.
Speaker 1: You know, all my life, I always wanted to be
Speaker 1: a fireman. And then when you get that first job
Speaker 1: at the hook and ladder man, you're in heaven because
Speaker 1: you found your genius. You're contributing to your community in
Speaker 1: the way that you know how Now there's night Monks
Speaker 1: of the Lima. We can take you to all kinds
Speaker 1: of great heights, but you know you're not looking to
Speaker 1: give up your kids and move to Tibet, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think I'm trying to find a way to
Speaker 1: ignite the imagination again towards creative spiritual experience and creative religion.
Speaker 1: I'm a child of the seventies. I was a Patti
Speaker 1: Smith Free. She was my personal goddess and savior still is.
Speaker 1: She was trying to create a rock and roll religion
Speaker 1: to see through sound, exsta, see through poetry, extra through insight,
Speaker 1: even in my own rock bands in those days. You know,
Speaker 1: that's what it was all about. And I find it
Speaker 1: no different writing sacred texts and going through the psychic
Speaker 1: experiences of growing up, because that's whole part of it.
Speaker 1: We all go through these particular milestones in life. They're
Speaker 1: changing each one of those milestone. I like something, So
Speaker 1: what about a place God.
Speaker 4: No, I was going to say what you had said,
Speaker 4: I kind of want to touch upon. It's very akin
Speaker 4: to what Nick and I have been kind of going
Speaker 4: down the rabbit holes of We looked into Hildegarde Uh
Speaker 4: and we looked into Michael Meyer, Coonroth, and they all
Speaker 4: had the same elements of music, spirituality, alchemy of some sort,
Speaker 4: and it was this this trifecta of combining all three
Speaker 4: into a spiritual experience. And so when you said that
Speaker 4: about music, you know, pay Smith, you saved you, and
Speaker 4: you're talking about spirituality and the actual community and fellowship.
Speaker 4: It reminded me a lot of when we dug deep
Speaker 4: into their biographies and then their work especially, I would.
Speaker 1: Say the big difference is that we're not trying to
Speaker 1: create a communal fellowship. Okay, we're trying to create a community,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to find a way to show that
Speaker 1: everybody has a natural genius, whatever that might be. Just
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm a musician, I'm an artist, I'm
Speaker 1: a poet, I'm you know, I got all this. But
Speaker 1: you you should not ever come to us and say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm none of those. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You know, I raised well family, I got a cool
Speaker 1: little job, and you don't realize that that's a creative
Speaker 1: experience too, you know, especially in the creativity of you know,
Speaker 1: raising children and turning them into something. And you know,
Speaker 1: and we're really looking for that family structure in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, because we like lots of artists, intelligence people.
Speaker 1: I'd like to know that you've read a few books
Speaker 1: in your life, you know, that kind of thing we want.
Speaker 1: We're looking for, you know, quality, not quantity. Again, we
Speaker 1: don't want just any family. Don't want the alcoholic parents
Speaker 1: down the street. You know, we're not trying to see
Speaker 1: if anybody. We're not out in front running our little
Speaker 1: mission and we'll sell some usic clothes downstairs. So you
Speaker 1: know we're different and we're you know, and we're not
Speaker 1: going to scare you. You know, we're not going to
Speaker 1: tell you know, if you don't come here next Sunday,
Speaker 1: you're going to hell, straight to Hell in a hand basket.
Speaker 1: Do not pass go, do not pass two hundred dollars
Speaker 1: or collect.
Speaker 3: To them that fin There was something, uh, I think
Speaker 3: I heard you mentioned on another show too of that,
Speaker 3: and I was kind of impressed with it because it's
Speaker 3: kind of like an idea that I've even tried to
Speaker 3: run with my own show. I think you were talking about,
Speaker 3: like how you don't really tell people what to believe.
Speaker 3: You kind of just give them outlets to find it themselves.
Speaker 1: Well, even just the opposite. We tell you, listen, don't
Speaker 1: get involved with that superstition, because if you believe in anything,
Speaker 1: it's superstitious. You have to believe in it because you
Speaker 1: have no proof. We say that there's a way to
Speaker 1: know the divine. If I know the divine, I don't
Speaker 1: have to believe in it. It's a I can see
Speaker 1: the two of you right in front of me. I'm
Speaker 1: interacting with you. I don't need to believe in you.
Speaker 1: You're right there, but I know you.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, I've even.
Speaker 1: Used like experienced.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I use that as an example of was Like
Speaker 3: someone could tell you Simon tastes great, and you'll believe
Speaker 3: it it is, but you won't know until you eat it.
Speaker 3: Big difference, you you know, but we believe and knowing
Speaker 3: and faith and knowing, huge difference. And I think people
Speaker 3: get screwed up on that.
Speaker 1: Well, and now let's look at the ineffable divine, the
Speaker 1: ineffable divine, Well, ineffable. That says it all. So as
Speaker 1: we begin to even that we call it divine, it
Speaker 1: would be wrong because once we say divine, it's no
Speaker 1: longer ineffable. We've made it effable.
Speaker 3: Well, I even heard you say, just giving God a
Speaker 3: name God, that screws it up right there, which I
Speaker 3: actually was like, nailed it, You totally nailed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to say that there's a way to get to
Speaker 1: the divine through direct experience of the divine might even
Speaker 1: lead you, because we don't hold no secrets, might even
Speaker 1: lead you to assume that we might be trying to
Speaker 1: teach you that you are God. Why do you need
Speaker 1: to go bend the need to something else? You're already
Speaker 1: there and you're in a company of God's Is there
Speaker 1: anything that isn't God? Because if God is infinite, then
Speaker 1: there is nothing that can't be God. You, me, hitler, sewage, dogs, worms,
Speaker 1: it's all God. What could not possibly be God? So
Speaker 1: I can tell you these words and they maybe I'll
Speaker 1: get lucky, they'll even be inspiring for you. But without
Speaker 1: your having that direct experience, without you are coming to
Speaker 1: that own inner realization, you know, the you know the teenager.
Speaker 1: You know mom or dad always says, don't do that,
Speaker 1: don't do that, You're gonna get it and do that,
Speaker 1: and then you go out and you do that, and
Speaker 1: you get burned and you realize, oh, now I know
Speaker 1: why they told me not to do that. Okay, you
Speaker 1: have to have that. There has to be something that
Speaker 1: wakes up inside of you. Or if I gave you
Speaker 1: the most amazing, beautiful, possible truth that ever could be,
Speaker 1: that would just put you in permanent all you would
Speaker 1: reject it. You'd spit on it. This, you know, the
Speaker 1: stone that the builders rejected, right, because you're not coming
Speaker 1: to that place yet where you can apprehend that. We
Speaker 1: can wrap your mind around it. So to get to
Speaker 1: that place, well, these are techniques we can give you easily.
Speaker 1: And these don't have to be complicated sophisticated mumbo jumbo
Speaker 1: where you have to make lots of things and buy
Speaker 1: lots of groovy robes and we're really cool jewelry. You know,
Speaker 1: the you know, this is the purveyance of the mind.
Speaker 1: And listen, you know, we start with, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the most simple things I can tell you, read
Speaker 1: and write, Read the great novels, look at the great
Speaker 1: masterpieces and painting. And listen to the great musics everything
Speaker 1: from blues, jazz and rock and roll back through opera
Speaker 1: and and and you know, and you know ancient Greek music.
Speaker 1: Listen to it all. Experience every you know, hope you
Speaker 1: can China's song. Experience it all. Some of it you're
Speaker 1: gonna turn around as a dumb shit, but some of
Speaker 1: you're gonna like and and you'll start to see over time,
Speaker 1: a sensibility grows inside of you. Right on these experiences.
Speaker 1: What did this? You know? I just saw you know,
Speaker 1: Picasso's Lugernica today, and really I thought it was kind
Speaker 1: of crummy looking, you know, or you know, because you've
Speaker 1: got to be honest with yourself, right, But then export
Speaker 1: why did you think it was crummy looking? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: the cresset Moon's always around, the girls. Ice just really
Speaker 1: drove me up. You know, maybe I don't understand cubism,
Speaker 1: so maybe then you might at some point catch an
Speaker 1: article on cubism, right, and then suddenly you're opening yourself
Speaker 1: up to a whole new perception of reality. You know,
Speaker 1: you start watching better quality films, You start picking up
Speaker 1: some poets that you thought were idiots and reading them
Speaker 1: and going, holy fucking shit, this is amazing. And I
Speaker 1: had that with e.
Speaker 5: Cummings, but it was Patty Smith that got me there,
Speaker 5: my personal constance. He uh, So, we can give you
Speaker 5: insights into yourself if you follow our sermons you know,
Speaker 5: we do these public things. We have a full body
Speaker 5: of is social media tumblr, Facebook, ex Twitter, Tumblr. I
Speaker 5: read it rather where we have a huge YouTube channel and.
Speaker 1: I'm doing everything from experimenting with AI knowledge lecture type
Speaker 1: programs to trying to make more genuine scripted videos that
Speaker 1: I write myself. I'm not a genius when it comes
Speaker 1: to computers, as you learned when we started figuring out.
Speaker 1: I had a hook up on this podcast. So I'm
Speaker 1: coming to this the hard way. In all my rock bands,
Speaker 1: I wrote the songs, the guitarists did all the electronics
Speaker 1: because I didn't have to plug anything in.
Speaker 4: That's still cool though, That's awesome. I was I was
Speaker 4: going to ask you a little bit you talked about.
Speaker 4: I listened to a podcast that you did with some Brazilians.
Speaker 1: I love that one. It was so good. I think twice.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed all of the information that y'all kind
Speaker 4: of shared and dialogued between and so it reminded me
Speaker 4: of like when you talked about how you have to
Speaker 4: experience something. And I think somebody had said that they
Speaker 4: started reading a book early on. They didn't know what
Speaker 4: they were reading, but they just kept reading and you
Speaker 4: made the comment like, but you kept reading, and that
Speaker 4: is the key because later you were going to come
Speaker 4: back to it, and then it was it was going
Speaker 4: to be another layer because you have now experienced it
Speaker 4: and you're seeing it through new eyes.
Speaker 1: Wait, didn't say that exactly.
Speaker 4: But you were experienced, you had the experience, and then
Speaker 4: you're reading it again and now you're understanding. But it
Speaker 4: was good that you kept reading and right now when
Speaker 4: you were talking about music and listen to all types
Speaker 4: of music, it sparked a bellamy and that like early
Speaker 4: on I listened to jazz because I was in you know,
Speaker 4: band as a high schooler. And it wouldn't be until
Speaker 4: you get your heart complete letely shattered that you now
Speaker 4: understand the blues.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can read all the Torch songs that you
Speaker 1: want to read, eat out, listen to, but you know
Speaker 1: you need a broken heart before you know we can
Speaker 1: take the song with meaning.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing with poetry. You're just reading it,
Speaker 4: you're not really understanding. And then when you get that,
Speaker 4: you know existential moment in your life that you read
Speaker 4: it again, you're like, I get it, I totally get it.
Speaker 4: So it crystallized right now when you were saying all that.
Speaker 1: I remember in seventh grade we were forced to read
Speaker 1: Ee Cummings and he's the poet that doesn't use capital
Speaker 1: letters in any of his poetry. And I'm reading this, going,
Speaker 1: people like this drivel? How could anyone I feel even
Speaker 1: worse for the guy that wrote it? You know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just there in college. Now I'm an adult.
Speaker 1: I'm in my early twenty I graduated twenty two. You're
Speaker 1: probably twenty one, twenty two years old. But at least
Speaker 1: I've been through a lot of adult experiences at this point.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not a preteen boy. And I
Speaker 1: chanced on some Ee Cummings. I was very initiated by
Speaker 1: Patti Smith Domina sinky something but uh, and I turned
Speaker 1: around and goes, this is some of the greatest shit
Speaker 1: I ever read. I mean, it was nearly as good
Speaker 1: as drugs, and drugs were great. Oh my god, that's funny.
Speaker 1: But that's what it should be. It's ecstasy. It's all
Speaker 1: about ecstasy.
Speaker 4: The other thing I was going to say is that
Speaker 4: when you had said out, you come to this with
Speaker 4: knowing you're not believing. It's not a faith, and that
Speaker 4: is quite I mean, very quintessential the definition of narcissism
Speaker 4: right to know, not to know, not to fit.
Speaker 1: But now this is where it gets interesting, because these
Speaker 1: ancient gnostics wrote all this crap, and if you join
Speaker 1: these gnostic groups, they're going to tell, you know, beware
Speaker 1: of the debi urge and you know, all this crap
Speaker 1: and we're trapped in you know, in this world and
Speaker 1: we got to get ourselves out of it. And this
Speaker 1: is the ugly place, you know. And yet when you
Speaker 1: read the actual texts, like the Valentinians where most of
Speaker 1: that stuff comes from, when you look at all the
Speaker 1: eons that emine, there were all psychic structures, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and then there's the one in that
Speaker 1: connects the church with God and all that. But they
Speaker 1: were still they were they were doing what you should do.
Speaker 1: In mythology, you create a symbolism where what you're actually
Speaker 1: talking about is represented by something else. Right, So the
Speaker 1: the god pan is you know, he's got you know,
Speaker 1: a certain disposition, and so that disposition tends to represent
Speaker 1: that same tree in all of us. That is why
Speaker 1: the gods were so human, right, you know, they did
Speaker 1: all the things that humans did, with all our failings
Speaker 1: and all our virtues.
Speaker 2: You know, so.
Speaker 1: I lost my train of thought.
Speaker 4: You know, you're talking about nacissism. How that Back then
Speaker 4: they used to go off on tangents.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, So let's talk about modern gnosticism for a moment.
Speaker 1: The basic thing, like you just said to me, was
Speaker 1: to know. So there's a knowledge, a special knowledge. Okay,
Speaker 1: well think about it. That special knowledge is your knowledge
Speaker 1: of yourself and knowing that the divine is within you.
Speaker 1: If it's not already the whole of yourself, it's at
Speaker 1: least within you, and that's where you're going to access it.
Speaker 1: So why are we going to start talking about evil things?
Speaker 1: Because there's no such thing as good in evil. They're
Speaker 1: just things. Now, some of those things may be good
Speaker 1: for me and evil for you. That's just a matter
Speaker 1: of perspective and taste, you know what I'm saying, And
Speaker 1: certainly we will not say do unto others because you know,
Speaker 1: if you like to flail yourself at six pm every night,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not joining you.
Speaker 4: Of like a biology in that you know, you have
Speaker 4: predator prey interactions. There's no right or wrong, it just
Speaker 4: is just.
Speaker 1: It just is. And you know, the prey to the
Speaker 1: predator is food sustaining. We kill all day long. Every
Speaker 1: breath you take is microbes everything you've eat. I don't
Speaker 1: care if you just eat plants and you're some kind
Speaker 1: of veggie weed heead. You're killing the plants. They live,
Speaker 1: they have feelings, they reincarnate. It's just a lifestyle. We
Speaker 1: don't understand.
Speaker 4: Herbivores prey on plants.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing exactly. So even your your very
Speaker 1: first breath, your body comes out of the wound and
Speaker 1: it took up space. Well, taking up that space was
Speaker 1: a violent act. You entered the world and the first
Speaker 1: thing you did was a violent act. So we really
Speaker 1: need to get over ourselves. We're not the fluffy, nice
Speaker 1: people we think we are. But I'll keep you thinking
Speaker 1: that because it's to my event.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 4: Wasn't Whenever Christianity first came on board, there was already
Speaker 4: people kind of coming into the New millennium that were
Speaker 4: seeking knowledge, and there were offshoots of narcissism and offshoot
Speaker 4: of knowledge seekers, and that narcissism itself was demonized and
Speaker 4: given a bad rap or a bad name or something
Speaker 4: because it was a competing theory or competing factions between
Speaker 4: who was going to win the you know, the prize
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 1: That's actually a little that's actually a little bit right
Speaker 1: and a little bit wrong.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: There were lots of groups and movements going on in
Speaker 1: various locations. Okay, let's let's tell the story this way.
Speaker 1: Already planted in uh Greco Roman. Uh, the Greco Roman
Speaker 1: religion was this idea of the logos, and the logos
Speaker 1: was a half human, half divine person fathered by usually
Speaker 1: Zeus or some other frisky little god out there who
Speaker 1: just really loved those human women. And through the course
Speaker 1: of that great person's lifetime, he will go through a
Speaker 1: death sprit. He will die and be resurrected in some
Speaker 1: way because he's half divine, whether he's going to be
Speaker 1: saved and some God's going to rush in and help
Speaker 1: men out of his misery, or he'll be rescued from hades,
Speaker 1: or or he'll even cure himself. You know, these are possible.
Speaker 1: But all these logoi, all these different logos, were very
Speaker 1: significant in that culture. It was a process of personal transformation.
Speaker 1: All that was in their mythos. Of that comes this
Speaker 1: Christian sect which comes out of Judaism originally, and they're
Speaker 1: just finding a savior, the promised Messiah, who's going to
Speaker 1: be the general that's going to get rid of the
Speaker 1: Roman army. But instead they get completely demolished by the
Speaker 1: Roman army. So what's left of them creates this mild
Speaker 1: and meek Savior and he's the good guy, blessed or
Speaker 1: the sweet, the people that you don't want to introduce
Speaker 1: to your mommy. And so this this thing starts to
Speaker 1: catch on, and this Christian group even gets you know,
Speaker 1: the Ear of Rome, and Rome is probably participating in
Speaker 1: it too. I forget the name of the history, and
Speaker 1: I'll think of it. But you know, he started he
Speaker 1: was a Jewish convert who was there, you know, and
Speaker 1: started writing Flavius. Uh. He became the protectorate of Augustus Flavius,
Speaker 1: and he took on the last name of Flavius. And
Speaker 1: so as he starts composing, you know, these ideas of
Speaker 1: this meek and mild Jesus and writes that into you know,
Speaker 1: Jewish history, you know, the Roman record of Jewish history,
Speaker 1: they eventually start, you know, a later emperor starts listening
Speaker 1: to these guys more seriously. The Roman Church takes on
Speaker 1: this Christian sect. But by the time they do, it's
Speaker 1: no longer just Jews. The Jews stayed with the Jews.
Speaker 1: You still had to you know, get your peepee cut
Speaker 1: off circumcision. I couldn't think of it. You still had
Speaker 1: to do that. Whereas up comes Paul, who's now going
Speaker 1: to write his own version of the story, and he's
Speaker 1: going to write it to non Jews. And this becomes
Speaker 1: really really big and strong, and rather quickly because Constantine
Speaker 1: adopts the church. Out of that, the Valentinian Gnostic sect
Speaker 1: arose in opposition. They didn't buy it. So we have
Speaker 1: now some of these Jewish sects, like the Sethians that
Speaker 1: played around with the Valentinians for a while, then they
Speaker 1: went home. And then you have other sects that were
Speaker 1: in different parts of the Roman Empire that just kind
Speaker 1: of emerged out of these logo sects and eventually they
Speaker 1: kind of fell to the influence of Rome. But that
Speaker 1: would take seven hundred years, you know, before Rome really
Speaker 1: got that grip. You know, so as we uh look
Speaker 1: at those groups feeding out and we look at you know,
Speaker 1: the Christians essentially put down the Valentinians, and you know,
Speaker 1: anything connected with Judaism. They get they kind of they
Speaker 1: just won because you know, my daddy's bigger than your daddy.
Speaker 1: Rome is kind of big, yeah, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: still around today because it is the Christian religion. You know,
Speaker 1: it's the only orthodoxal authentic Christian religion. Now the Valentinians
Speaker 1: and the Sethians. The Sethians were more cabalistic, but they
Speaker 1: still had an ontology, and they still.
Speaker 6: Had a way that we came to be beings and
Speaker 6: human beings specifically, but being and that in the way
Speaker 6: we were formulated.
Speaker 1: They still handle all of this. But and I would
Speaker 1: imagine some of the Valentinian teachings were kind of their
Speaker 1: secret teachings kind of explained some of their texts. But
Speaker 1: they still kept to the Roman mass as well. They
Speaker 1: still recited the Creed, the Nicean Creed, so they still
Speaker 1: bould all that. Let's go over and the part of
Speaker 1: the empire, Roman Empire that is now most of the
Speaker 1: Middle East today and the Arabic world, well, they were
Speaker 1: basically the Dosetic Gnostics. You can't kill a God by
Speaker 1: nailing him to a piece of wood. He wouldn't be
Speaker 1: a god. There's only one God, but God. Sound familiar. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would become Islam. And so Mohammed would come along
Speaker 1: say this is the last communication because we're going back
Speaker 1: to God. Folks. Interesting, all bullshit. The only thing that
Speaker 1: really holds true today is a study of the human
Speaker 1: psyche and the fact that narcissism is a secret knowledge
Speaker 1: that you must come to through your own direct experience.
Speaker 1: And we keep that. We throw away the rest of
Speaker 1: the bullshit. And now let's talk about having direct experience.
Speaker 1: And direct experience could be a lovely picnic with four
Speaker 1: families in the backyard of the church. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be super profound, but it can be. And you
Speaker 1: might get there through the most unprofound ways.
Speaker 3: Do you I would assume you probably promote the idea
Speaker 3: of meditation, right.
Speaker 1: I promote the idea of meditation. In this way you
Speaker 1: should come to a perfect discipline of meditation. To discipline
Speaker 1: the mind, you have to be able to shut off
Speaker 1: the mind or you have no control over it. You
Speaker 1: have no control over anything. You can't kill. Right. If
Speaker 1: you can shut off the mind, then you can control
Speaker 1: your thoughts. But after that it becomes Papa's bullshit. For
Speaker 1: gurus in the East or just people that want to
Speaker 1: be holier than that. I'd love to tell it this
Speaker 1: way because here's, you know, here's the control of the emotions.
Speaker 1: Because controlling the mind is both the intellect, which gets
Speaker 1: nourished by our reading and writing, and the other side
Speaker 1: of the coin is the emotions.
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Tell this, well, let's pretend and you've spent now the
Speaker 1: last five years preparing for this ultimate sales pitch. This
Speaker 1: is the opportunity that you've been working on forever and
Speaker 1: ever and ever, and you've got it. You're ready. The
Speaker 1: big board meeting is today. Everything you planned on, hope
Speaker 1: and dream is going to happen. And just before you
Speaker 1: walk into that meeting room, your office fund rings. You
Speaker 1: pick it up, and you find out that everybody in
Speaker 1: your family has just been killed in a tragic auto accident.
Speaker 1: What do you do? You suck it up, You walk
Speaker 1: into the board meeting, you give the pitch of your life,
Speaker 1: and you get that big career move that you need it.
Speaker 1: Then you go back to your office and your collapse,
Speaker 1: and you got to think about that. That's the control
Speaker 1: that we can have over our emotions. We got to
Speaker 1: feel pain, we got to feel pleasure. But in the
Speaker 1: same way that we can delay pleasure, we can delay pain,
Speaker 1: and that becomes, you know, a real key to both
Speaker 1: our intellect and our emotions. Right, it can be real
Speaker 1: painful to read certain things.
Speaker 2: Very well said.
Speaker 3: Something I wanted to ask before, and it was a
Speaker 3: question that I had down that I just you know,
Speaker 3: I just kind of wanted to get your idea or
Speaker 3: your opinion. There was a couple of things that came
Speaker 3: up that made me wonder, and that's what I was
Speaker 3: gonna ask. Do you believe like when you talk about like,
Speaker 3: first off, if you did say you don't, you don't
Speaker 3: tell people to worship any gods. Do you believe like
Speaker 3: when it comes to like all these not God, but
Speaker 3: like when you start getting to like all these other
Speaker 3: gods like Toath and hathor like you know, all these
Speaker 3: other gods, do you believe that they are real and
Speaker 3: literal or do you think that maybe they're kind of
Speaker 3: just like almost like art expressing an archetype, like is
Speaker 3: it is it?
Speaker 2: Like my opinion, I don't take.
Speaker 3: Them as little I know a lot of people seem to,
Speaker 3: even in the magical community, but for me, I.
Speaker 1: Just as soon as you take them as literal you're
Speaker 1: believing now and you're practicing superstition.
Speaker 3: Comic book characters to some people that they believe in.
Speaker 7: Wild you know, every everyone's, everybody's everybody else has got
Speaker 7: his false of course, so you're an atheist one hundred
Speaker 7: thousand times over except for the one.
Speaker 1: So as soon as you said, do you believe? Cut
Speaker 1: you off right there, short answer.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Now you're asking me some specifics. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that believe in a lot of gods over large
Speaker 1: periods of time. Their grigors exist in the wind. But
Speaker 1: those are really truly also founded on archetypes, and archetypes
Speaker 1: are products of our psyche. Now we can argue Jung's
Speaker 1: collective on conscious. You might get with that or you
Speaker 1: might not get with that. I think you have to
Speaker 1: begin to experience those things that would make the collective
Speaker 1: unconscious accessible to you, that you can begin to directly
Speaker 1: into it. It through experience, and I can tell you
Speaker 1: read the right holy books, put the right things together.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jung's read books should be a mind blower.
Speaker 1: The holy books of the Lima should knock you backwards,
Speaker 1: you know. But again it's getting the mind to that
Speaker 1: level that you know as Patty Smith would say, you know,
Speaker 1: getting manipulating your particles of charm, you know, and you've
Speaker 1: got to bring that energy up. You know. They call
Speaker 1: it the Kundelini in these you know, the Kodolini rises
Speaker 1: if it gets you know, to my head. There's enlightenment. Well,
Speaker 1: that enlightenment is everything that's already in your mind. The
Speaker 1: question is can you access all that mind? Do you
Speaker 1: even know it's there?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And most people don't. Most people do nothing but run
Speaker 1: from pain and towards pleasure, and they don't think about
Speaker 1: a damn thing about their lives. They just do what
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be done next. And that's not a
Speaker 1: purposeful life. You're not living in real life. The unexamined
Speaker 1: life really isn't worth living.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Nosis is the only life. Your superstition. Believing in this
Speaker 1: or that is ridiculous, you know, because now you're dead,
Speaker 1: you're just a zombie. You're the walking undead. Get it
Speaker 1: over with already. Oh wait, you got to run the
Speaker 1: electric plant. I guess those of us that are awake
Speaker 1: still need you, like.
Speaker 8: They're running to soothing right, like they're just you know,
Speaker 8: so again, I'm sorry, it's almost like if they're running
Speaker 8: to soothe, to like whatever causes them discomfort, they're always
Speaker 8: running towards the thing that sues them.
Speaker 1: I graduated high school because it supposed to graduate to
Speaker 1: high school. Two years later, I got married because it
Speaker 1: was supposed to get married. And I got my job,
Speaker 1: and we had two point three babies, and now we
Speaker 1: have a two point three car garage, and I got
Speaker 1: a little successful. And then the kids grew up and
Speaker 1: they moved out, and we had empty mess syndrome. And
Speaker 1: then we found some ways to entertain ourselves, but we
Speaker 1: just kind of got old and rotten, and you know,
Speaker 1: and then we got there and finally I'm on my
Speaker 1: death back on I never lived, not one minute because
Speaker 1: you were a zombie all your life. Oh I don't
Speaker 1: care that you cried it your you know, your kids graduation,
Speaker 1: and you bought the best birthday cake ever. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a great nobility and a personal genius in raising
Speaker 1: a family. So I'm not trying to say in that
Speaker 1: derogatory sense, but if you didn't do it with full knowledge,
Speaker 1: and don't we often hear new mothers say, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't give you a guidebook when you have the baby,
Speaker 1: and their first few years are desperate because they're trying
Speaker 1: to figure it out well because they didn't do their homework.
Speaker 1: You know, I really say. You know, oddly enough, those
Speaker 1: you know, urban city girls in those terrible neighborhoods really
Speaker 1: get a better shot at it because at least they
Speaker 1: get to play mom for weekends when they get that
Speaker 1: baby doll. But you know, drive them crazy because they
Speaker 1: learn what they're getting into, you know, and then you
Speaker 1: learn how to do it, and you know you've chosen
Speaker 1: it from your own intuition, from your own involition, and
Speaker 1: you know you're not coming home going, oh no, it's
Speaker 1: going to be wins. I need three war jobs, you know,
Speaker 1: And you know, life should not be entered into that way.
Speaker 1: I think there's a way to broker that. Now. Certainly,
Speaker 1: let's look at it as how we mature. Our parents
Speaker 1: did that initial brokering for us. They gave us our
Speaker 1: initial world view, they refined it and fed it, and
Speaker 1: they did all these things, and you know, finally one
Speaker 1: day we started to want to do some of that
Speaker 1: for ourselves, and finally we were also we did it
Speaker 1: all for ourselves. And so there's a brokering into maturity there.
Speaker 1: But there's also a big problem there because you know,
Speaker 1: your parents and your aunts and uncles and your Grandma's
Speaker 1: gonna you know, when you're a little baby, they're gonna
Speaker 1: come over, they're gonna picture you'd go, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: beautiful babies. You know, they're already grooming you into their agony,
Speaker 1: and they just want to know that you're gonna suffer
Speaker 1: like they do. That's really all they want. You know.
Speaker 4: Well, it's tribal, you know what I mean. It's tribal
Speaker 4: in that it's it's it's the reinforcement of society making
Speaker 4: sure that you stick to the tribal mentality because in
Speaker 4: the past, when we were huntering gatherers, it's what survived
Speaker 4: the tribe. But now we have moved beyond that, we
Speaker 4: have evolved beyond that, but society has yet it's lagging still.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you lose individuals.
Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And the herd mindset is dangerous, it is. But we
Speaker 1: still need community. We still need each other. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: need we need the the the aquarium age that's still
Speaker 1: six hundred years away. Another argument will be the age
Speaker 1: ruled by both the old ruler and the new ruler
Speaker 1: of the sign, so that we'll have both Saturn and
Speaker 1: and it was a venus. Then screwed it, my head,
Speaker 1: screwed it right now. But we'll have both the individual
Speaker 1: and the collective. And you know, part of the pipe
Speaker 1: dream for the church is, you know, my wife and I,
Speaker 1: you know, initially sat talking about it this and that
Speaker 1: is we thought how nice it would be that the
Speaker 1: church became like a co op, so that you know,
Speaker 1: eight families lived on the block that would all belong
Speaker 1: to the church, and they all came here to buy
Speaker 1: their food because we bought it in mass, and somebody
Speaker 1: amongst our community would educate the babies and take care
Speaker 1: of that by the day, so the rest of us
Speaker 1: can go to our jobs. And you know, the church
Speaker 1: would own all the land and the houses would be
Speaker 1: on the outskirts, and so people wouldn't have to work
Speaker 1: forty to sixty hours a week, maybe they could do
Speaker 1: ten to twenty, and we'd have everything that we'd ever want.
Speaker 1: Now that's a pipe dream. We're not trying to create
Speaker 1: a communist collective. And probably something very wrong about the
Speaker 1: church still owning all the land. Probably they should each
Speaker 1: on their own individual land around the church, because you know,
Speaker 1: the power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. Always remember that
Speaker 1: I'm saying that might be the nicest guy in the world,
Speaker 1: give me power over you and I'll have your bank
Speaker 1: account in mind in minutes for sure.
Speaker 4: No, and I think what you said exactly is that
Speaker 4: the collective but yet an individual. It's like the liver
Speaker 4: cell doesn't try to be the heart cell, but you
Speaker 4: both know that they have to function together in order
Speaker 4: to be self, to be a collective self.
Speaker 1: As a collective. And you know, as they say it
Speaker 1: all the East West Magazine's body mind, right, and the
Speaker 1: mind is the soul. The spirit is the animating force
Speaker 1: that comes in. We'll call it the starry force to
Speaker 1: make an easy and that starring for us, give you
Speaker 1: animation and the roots soul that is really that body
Speaker 1: waking up, that aggregate consciousness we spoke of before. And
Speaker 1: the question now is when you die, what happens to
Speaker 1: that consciousness, that aggregate consciousness of the body, or do
Speaker 1: you just become nothing again to go back up to
Speaker 1: the stars. Well, there is an immortality in what we do,
Speaker 1: and that could be as simple as raising babies, right,
Speaker 1: But then you'll only be remembered as long as maybe
Speaker 1: your grandkids if they saw you twice. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. The true immortals are, you know, the Beethovens
Speaker 1: and Mozarts, that Julius Caesars and the Adolph Hitlers. Notice
Speaker 1: that I in two cases I gave you artists, and
Speaker 1: two other cases I gave you dangerous tyrants. Good and bad.
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter if you have it effect on the world.
Speaker 1: And that effect could be that you know, maybe you
Speaker 1: know ten people down the line, your great great great
Speaker 1: grandchildren will be the next Beethoven. And we need the
Speaker 1: collective body because otherwise we'd have no modern world. The
Speaker 1: geniuses amongst us would still be shooting dinosaurs with their
Speaker 1: bow and arrows. Right, So we have to create a
Speaker 1: society in a world to live in. And as the
Speaker 1: Book of the Wall says, the slave shall serve. Now,
Speaker 1: the slaves are just the mindless people. But they collect
Speaker 1: the garbage, they run the grocery store. He turned the
Speaker 1: electric lights on. They give us civilization, and without civilization
Speaker 1: we have no spiritual growth. So we we must never
Speaker 1: trash them. We must love them, and we must show
Speaker 1: them their genius, but then we must demand of ourselves
Speaker 1: the greater if we are to know the divine. If
Speaker 1: that's what you're.
Speaker 4: After, agreed.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's really good at suddenly stopping like that?
Speaker 3: That's what I did want to ask you. Do you
Speaker 3: think there's any like huge misconceptions about narcissism.
Speaker 1: Tons? I know, I know many of these modern gnostics
Speaker 1: that you know just are reading the old texts and
Speaker 1: you know, running from the demiurge, and some of them
Speaker 1: would really like to kill me. I've had knockdown drag
Speaker 1: outs with some of these dudes. There's three forms of philosophy,
Speaker 1: and no matter how fancy we build off them, there's
Speaker 1: only three Monism, dualism, and nihilism. Most spiritual and religious
Speaker 1: institutions and teachings or whatever are either monaster or nihilists.
Speaker 1: They can kind of into twine. I'm a duelist, I
Speaker 1: mean both the Cartesian idea of of you know, I
Speaker 1: I know my mind, I think therefore I am, and
Speaker 1: I'm not really that sure about my body. But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I could get more complex and how I may I
Speaker 1: bridged my consciousness from the mind to the body as
Speaker 1: much as you might bridge your consciousness from the mind
Speaker 1: to the stars, you know, in your contemplation of the
Speaker 1: night sky, in that sense of awe that you feel.
Speaker 1: And where was I going with that? We were talking about?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, so.
Speaker 1: In that dualism we have that inner psyche, that world
Speaker 1: of archetypes, all that kind of thing. What the mom
Speaker 1: is just going to tell you is we're not we
Speaker 1: don't really exist. Okay. Life is an illusion. The world
Speaker 1: around you is an illusion. You're an illusion. You don't.
Speaker 1: You got to get rid of your ego, man, Okay.
Speaker 1: Your ego tells you who you are. The guy without
Speaker 1: his ego is the guy walking down Main Street at
Speaker 1: twelve noon with no clothes on, screaming at the clouds. Okay,
Speaker 1: because that's what happens when you lose your ego. And
Speaker 1: if you were in India doing that, they call you
Speaker 1: a holy man. We lock you up here in the West, Okay.
Speaker 1: And there's a reason, because there's there is spiritual psychic disease.
Speaker 1: And that's a schizophrenic that I just described. But he
Speaker 1: could sound like some gurus. I know. They you know,
Speaker 1: they're just capable of sitting down to a plate dinner
Speaker 1: with you at the same time. That's really the only difference, right,
Speaker 1: So the other is denihilist. These are your religious clerics.
Speaker 1: They want to keep you asleep. Just believe in Jesus
Speaker 1: and you'll go to heaven when you die. You're gonna
Speaker 1: see Mammy and Pappy, and don't forget your little dog
Speaker 1: Pepper too, you know. And they want to keep you
Speaker 1: functioning in society. Religion is here for them to establish order,
Speaker 1: because otherwise they'd have to put a cop at every window,
Speaker 1: so that when hubby comes home and doesn't like his
Speaker 1: wife's dinner and he decides he wants to beat the
Speaker 1: shit out of her, well God keeps him from doing it.
Speaker 1: They don't need a cop out the window. He turned
Speaker 1: around and says, well, you know, the New Testament, says
Speaker 1: Jesus is really nice. And that is why you always
Speaker 1: hear them say, how can you be good without the
Speaker 1: Holy Book? How can you be good without life in Jesus.
Speaker 1: It's absurd, really, but it gets you to think of yourself.
Speaker 1: And of course, as I always say, as soon as
Speaker 1: spirit leaves the temple, morality rushes in to fill the void.
Speaker 1: Some of your greatest mystics were scoundrels, so famous is
Speaker 1: that famous Russian mystic mystic. I can't remember his name now,
Speaker 1: but several we're real famous scoundrels, you know. And there
Speaker 1: you know again, there's no there's no good, there's no evil,
Speaker 1: there's no right and wrong way to be, you know.
Speaker 1: But stay away from the nihilists. They are going to
Speaker 1: convince you that the world is worthless, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: So I just want all your money and all your
Speaker 1: power and and and then you can go away. Stay
Speaker 1: away from the monus because they're going to tell you.
Speaker 1: You know, we were once one, but the one became
Speaker 1: the old, you know. And and your ego is important.
Speaker 1: It tells you who you are. It tells you how
Speaker 1: to walk out the door in the morning. And if
Speaker 1: your life isn't real, then what are you doing here?
Speaker 1: What are we even trying to do to talk to
Speaker 1: each other? You know, that's a lie. Muslism can't be.
Speaker 1: Nihilism is the enemy dualism. Understanding the layers of the
Speaker 1: psyche and the mind and coming to a method that
Speaker 1: you create on your own to find your own genius.
Speaker 1: That's everything that's heaven on earth and the hell you'll
Speaker 1: go through to get there. That's heaven on earth?
Speaker 2: H what are uh?
Speaker 3: If you don't mind, if you maybe go over like
Speaker 3: if there's any other u no, no, no no. If
Speaker 3: there's any other like other like misconceptions of narcissism, then wow,
Speaker 3: what do you think is out there?
Speaker 1: Well again, they think these ancient documents are the secret
Speaker 1: knowledge that got hidden by the church because they didn't
Speaker 1: want you to know the truth. And of course the
Speaker 1: secret knowledge is these angels of light came down from
Speaker 1: the Pleroma and gave you the history of heaven, you know,
Speaker 1: and like heaven has a history fascinating, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know, first there was you know, the poor Sophia
Speaker 1: because you know, somehow you still have to denigrate women. Okay,
Speaker 1: poor Sophia. She decided to cheat. She was going to
Speaker 1: make a baby without without a big dick, and she
Speaker 1: did and it was an abortion and welcome to the world.
Speaker 1: And this is what they're promoting now I'm saying it
Speaker 1: in the kind of the silly way, but it's accurate.
Speaker 1: Then you have this other group, those connected with Samae
Speaker 1: l A and we are if you have ever experienced orgasm,
Speaker 1: we are teachers that you are now condemned to hell.
Speaker 1: He will put you through techniques, sexual techniques, and I
Speaker 1: got it one of who ministers as crap. He will
Speaker 1: put you through sexual techniques so that you will never
Speaker 1: have worgasm but experience sexual ecstasy. He's plagiarized every modern
Speaker 1: Western mystery tradition writer in every which way possible, including
Speaker 1: Crowley in the Book of Law, and created these two
Speaker 1: twisted sectors that are around. They're everywhere. There several places,
Speaker 1: including here in town where I live. And they give
Speaker 1: these public lectures once a week and mix of gur
Speaker 1: Chiefs and Blovotsky and Casta data and then they have
Speaker 1: you sit and meditate while they play bombastic Beethoven symphonies,
Speaker 1: and you can see they're already working on controlling your mind.
Speaker 1: This is a it's a mind invasion.
Speaker 3: Well, if they knew anything about Gertscheff, did even know
Speaker 3: that Gertscheff knew that using certain tones and scales of
Speaker 3: music and saying shit at the same time, you can
Speaker 3: drop shit in people's heads. I mean, that's what the
Speaker 3: whole fourth way that was part of the fourth of
Speaker 3: the fourth big.
Speaker 1: Fan of ger Chief I like is Spensky a lot.
Speaker 2: I just know some of his stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm looking into cults and they were inspired by him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, any love or adoration of one
Speaker 1: singular leader with authority is your path to destruction. You know,
Speaker 1: you're not going to get anything out of it. You're
Speaker 1: just gonna lose. You know, you have to be the
Speaker 1: one always in authority over the state of your being.
Speaker 1: Period and amen. And so here we are a church
Speaker 1: of genius. And that's really as simple it can be
Speaker 1: simply explained by you getting more and more control over
Speaker 1: your being whatever you make of your destiny, and we
Speaker 1: create our destinies. We create our souls. You know, the
Speaker 1: root soul is still an animal soul. All it's doing
Speaker 1: is crying for its bottle and change my diaper. Okay,
Speaker 1: the rest of it you create. You create it as
Speaker 1: you learn how to live inside your home, as you
Speaker 1: go to your first school and you learn how to
Speaker 1: live in your first neighborhood, you get into your first relationships,
Speaker 1: you establish your business relationships, your social conducts. All that
Speaker 1: is creating soul as you create your art is you know,
Speaker 1: a woman at work today was showing me how her
Speaker 1: daughter does these really great paintings of people's dogs for them,
Speaker 1: and my dog. You just died. We put them to
Speaker 1: sleep on Friday, and so you know we're going, you know,
Speaker 1: going through things. Got me in a whole other trek personally,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's not Picasso, but they're really
Speaker 1: pretty pictures of dogs. And she seems to be on
Speaker 1: a mission. She she you know, helps with strays and
Speaker 1: does all things like that. So she's got her own
Speaker 1: mission from God, you know, and what she's really doing
Speaker 1: is becoming herself. Yeah, you know, that's the key. You know.
Speaker 4: It's interesting you say that because I think Nick and
Speaker 4: I have both talked about the fact that sometimes, you know,
Speaker 4: people talk about depression and anxiety. Not to say that
Speaker 4: this is a blanket all, but I think sometimes the
Speaker 4: anxiety and the depression start about because your soul has
Speaker 4: been trying to tell you that this you need to
Speaker 4: be doing something different. You're put on this planet to
Speaker 4: do something and you're not listening, and so it's almost
Speaker 4: like that nudge, very just you know, speculative of like discussing.
Speaker 4: Sometimes your body physically tells you, you know, hey, I
Speaker 4: want you to know yourself. I want you to know
Speaker 4: you as a person. I don't know, I just.
Speaker 1: Thought I'm gonna agree with you and disagree with you.
Speaker 1: You weren't put here by anybody, okay, And that's where
Speaker 1: my disagree was. And that's it. But you should have
Speaker 1: that feeling when you finally have created yourself. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to try to explain that with a story. I
Speaker 1: remember sitting on the floor in kindergarten. You were sitting
Speaker 1: in a circle in a rug, and Miss Shimmel was
Speaker 1: on the piano in front of us, and from her.
Speaker 1: When her hands reached out from behind her back playing
Speaker 1: the piano, I could see the finger. I could really
Speaker 1: just see the keys going there. And that fascinated me
Speaker 1: and didn't fascinate anybody else in the class. I'm the
Speaker 1: only one that became a musician, okay. And I went
Speaker 1: through music and art, and I was born in an
Speaker 1: intense Roman Catholic family. At four years old, I was
Speaker 1: begging to go to Mass. I loved the pomp and
Speaker 1: circumstance of the Mass, and I knew I had a
Speaker 1: profound spiritual movement going onside of me. And I eventually
Speaker 1: became all these things. And I really honestly believe that
Speaker 1: if we all go back to three, four and five
Speaker 1: years old, we'll find some things that really lit up
Speaker 1: inside us. But you know, you know, it's not cool
Speaker 1: to dance. All the other guys will think I'm a nerd.
Speaker 1: It's that kind of thing that shuts us out. We're
Speaker 1: afraid of the world view of what we want. And
Speaker 1: sometimes it's our parents slapping us down or bad experience
Speaker 1: lapping us down. You know what I'm saying. I also
Speaker 1: wanted to be the world's greatest lover. I failed. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not in any movies at all except the ones
Speaker 1: I make now. Okay, like I tell people, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to bribe Santa Claus.
Speaker 6: Uh, so.
Speaker 1: You don't necessarily have to go back to three, four
Speaker 1: and five years old. Maybe, you know, you know, look
Speaker 1: at those you know, seven year olds that you know
Speaker 1: played a little week for the first time, and you know,
Speaker 1: and now they're playing center field for the New York Yankees.
Speaker 1: You know, it's we could come to it even late
Speaker 1: in life. I matter of fact, the guitarist in my
Speaker 1: second band, his mother went to school with I met
Speaker 1: him in college and then his mother was also taking
Speaker 1: classes and she was sixty at the time. And then
Speaker 1: three of us used to hang out a good bit
Speaker 1: and after she was in pre law. After she got
Speaker 1: done and we graduated. She and I graduated around the
Speaker 1: same time. Russ didn't make it. She went on to
Speaker 1: law school. She became a great lawyer. Now we used to.
Speaker 7: Go to there.
Speaker 1: I used to hang out a Rust's house. Sometimes the
Speaker 1: walls were grined with her uh paintings. She was a
Speaker 1: marvelous painter before she even went to college. And she
Speaker 1: ended up writing a great book on Jewish women in
Speaker 1: the Holocaust, you know. And she did all that because
Speaker 1: like she probably, like you know, fifty eight years old,
Speaker 1: one day said I think I'm going to go to college.
Speaker 1: So we don't know when that's going to happen. We
Speaker 1: don't know how that's going to happen. We we just
Speaker 1: know that it can happen to each and every one
Speaker 1: of us if you can tap into that inner source
Speaker 1: and be practical with the world, but not let it
Speaker 1: be your taskmaster. Yeah, don't live up to mom's standards.
Speaker 1: She sucks. Dad works. He didn't give you any He
Speaker 1: had his dirty magazines in the garage. Now we have
Speaker 1: the internet.
Speaker 2: H I guess, I mean this is kind of I'm sure.
Speaker 3: You've probably explained this in different ways. But maybe like
Speaker 3: just like a real quick, I guess summary for the
Speaker 3: listeners to you, what is nastissism really like?
Speaker 1: Narcissism is plainly and simply you finding your own creative outlet,
Speaker 1: recognizing it for what it is, and delivering that to
Speaker 1: the world unapologetically. Because what goes on inside of you
Speaker 1: will happen outside of you simultaneously. They're synchronistically tied together.
Speaker 1: Look at the world around you, because that's what's going
Speaker 1: on inside. Just got to learn to see it the
Speaker 1: right way, Okay. Gnosticism is celebrating the milestones in our life,
Speaker 1: like we have services for birth, bringing a child, to
Speaker 1: adulthood's funerals, that kind of thing. Gnosticism is spiritual community
Speaker 1: without authority. I'm the director of the Gnostic Church of Life.
Speaker 1: I'm not God Emperor Doune okay, And my job is
Speaker 1: to make sure the bills get paid and the building
Speaker 1: maintenance is up kept and right now, my job is
Speaker 1: to write the sermons and coordinate our services. But if
Speaker 1: you came to our service, the first time you get there,
Speaker 1: I probably try to give you one of the roles,
Speaker 1: you know, the lesser role in the mass, because you're
Speaker 1: probably not ready to write a sermon, but well, sure
Speaker 1: you want to get you to do that, because you can't.
Speaker 1: And it's where your ideas are, and it can be
Speaker 1: in how you want to communicate with the community that
Speaker 1: you're in in that moment, in that service. So everybody
Speaker 1: has their own way to the light. There's no rules
Speaker 1: that I can give you. I can give you a
Speaker 1: couple of guide posts. You can come to me and say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, interesting, I had this happen, and I can say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I can interpret that a little bit for you,
Speaker 1: but I can say, really, I wasn't there. I don't
Speaker 1: really know, and I'm not bringing your experience to it.
Speaker 1: It's just like, don't do people's dream interpretations. If you
Speaker 1: told me to interpret your dream, I'd say, okay, tell
Speaker 1: me the first thing that happen in your dream, Now
Speaker 1: tell it to me is if I was from Mars
Speaker 1: and I understood the language but the words were hollowed
Speaker 1: at me, Explain that again. And so suddenly they start
Speaker 1: to put their own knowledge into the dream, and you
Speaker 1: start to realize that you're the one that wrote the dream.
Speaker 1: You interpret it yourself. It's coming from your subconscious. What
Speaker 1: are you trying to tell yourself, can you tell the
Speaker 1: difference in dreams? When did they get archetypal that you're
Speaker 1: producing prophecy? When are they just really stupid? Because they
Speaker 1: often are. They're just jumbles of the mind reprocessing the day.
Speaker 1: You know. So you have all these levels to the psyche,
Speaker 1: and the deepest level is that level we call God. Now,
Speaker 1: in the Kabbalah, it teaches that that God that you
Speaker 1: see is ad and I, and he sits at Tiffrath,
Speaker 1: the heart chacker of the kabbala And so this way
Speaker 1: you see the worship of God and the loving of
Speaker 1: God and all that stuff. But eventually Ada and I
Speaker 1: gives way to your own genius. That augiates comes out
Speaker 1: of you and you start to realize, I can dialogue
Speaker 1: with myself. I can have a dialogue with the Savior,
Speaker 1: a gnostic dialogue. Read Librase sixty five, because that's really
Speaker 1: what that is. That's the adept talking to his angel
Speaker 1: through five elements, five chapters. And when you start and
Speaker 1: that's what Young's Red Book is. That's his dialogue with
Speaker 1: his psyche with himself. He meets his devil in there,
Speaker 1: he meets his holy guardian Angel he meets his God.
Speaker 1: They're all there, and it's literally. Prophecy is the revelation
Speaker 1: of life. Prophecy is not predicting the future. That's divination.
Speaker 1: But if we can see deeper into your own soul,
Speaker 1: then you have the treasure of treasures, the philosopher's soul,
Speaker 1: pure gold, the sun. Now you can stand up and say, now,
Speaker 1: I know that I have always known. And so getting
Speaker 1: back to your point, you weren't put here with a purpose.
Speaker 1: But when you find that purpose, you will come to
Speaker 1: feel that you've always known that purpose. I was always
Speaker 1: that piano player, you know, both as a teenager in
Speaker 1: my twenties, Who is I going to be? And I'm
Speaker 1: in a rock and roll bad you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Who am I going to be? Yes, I didn't know it,
Speaker 1: but I always knew it. I was always doing this.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there going, well, i haven't written a
Speaker 1: song in years, and I've tried to write a few things,
Speaker 1: and but I've been writing sermons and blogs and videos,
Speaker 1: and man, I'm more creative now than when I was
Speaker 1: the principal songwriter for My Pants, you know. So I
Speaker 1: just realized I'm always going to come back to this point.
Speaker 1: This is who I am. This is the nature of
Speaker 1: my life. And you know, you know, I work with
Speaker 1: a bunch of old bags like me and and you know,
Speaker 1: we're all in our retirement jobs, and they're so angry
Speaker 1: and they're so bitter and they hate me that I
Speaker 1: am so literally happy. I'm so filled with joy.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I've been depressed for the last three days over my
Speaker 1: dog and even the last twelve days that we had
Speaker 1: to deal with him suddenly getting a foma, going blind,
Speaker 1: and you're right right down to having to put him down.
Speaker 1: And I missed my poor buddy. You should have seen
Speaker 1: my substack podcasts, and you know, me practically crying saying
Speaker 1: goodbye to my doggie. We're going to experience pain, but
Speaker 1: life is pure joy. And I experienced the pain of
Speaker 1: struggle till I could finally be a halfway decent piano
Speaker 1: player and I'm still not great, and that I could
Speaker 1: be a halfway decent writer and I'm still not great.
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm saying that and all that
Speaker 1: struggle and all that. You know, oh man, this sucks.
Speaker 1: I write it over, you know, and you finally get there,
Speaker 1: you finally get to the point where well, wow, you know,
Speaker 1: these ideas are just coming through me, and it's my
Speaker 1: inner voice and it's just speaking, you know. And we
Speaker 1: see the renaissance novelist. You see that the novels become
Speaker 1: the maps of their minds. They're dealing with their New
Speaker 1: York medicism and what have you, but they're writing these
Speaker 1: novels and you're really seeing a map of the humans.
Speaker 1: Because the human soul is the human soul. That's why
Speaker 1: the Adam Cadmon is really while depicted as a male
Speaker 1: because we come from, you know, a male oriented it
Speaker 1: comes out of a male oriented system. But the Jaquina,
Speaker 1: the female part of the Adam Cadmon, descends to Earth
Speaker 1: and becomes the blessing of God. So we see that
Speaker 1: there's both of these elements in this inside our psyche,
Speaker 1: and it's really kind of one psyche split in two
Speaker 1: so that we have the chance of union. That boy
Speaker 1: might meet girl, trans will never meet girl, Trans will
Speaker 1: never meet boy. Trans has still got to figure out.
Speaker 1: Trans to me is like Bell Bottoms when I was
Speaker 1: a kid. We spent the whole eighties apologizing for it, okay,
Speaker 1: and it is a fad. It comes down to there's
Speaker 1: still men and women. That's the sacred mysteries, and they're
Speaker 1: gonna tend to get together and make babies, you know,
Speaker 1: and it happens in you know, ninety nine out of
Speaker 1: one hundred and Yeah, alls I can say is I'm
Speaker 1: the other one. And I say it with pure joy
Speaker 1: because I was an artist all my life. I didn't
Speaker 1: need three jobs.
Speaker 3: All right, Uh, Paul, I think, if anything, I think
Speaker 3: we'll wrap it up here about an hour, almost close
Speaker 3: to rounder fifteen. Yeah we are, Yeah, yeah, I would
Speaker 3: like to, you know, I'm sure we could definitely have
Speaker 3: you back and talk on some specific topics. Is there
Speaker 3: anything that you would like to plug again or would
Speaker 3: you like to let people know where they can find
Speaker 3: you stuff?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, you know Gnostic Church of Light
Speaker 1: white spelled LVX. Look for our YouTube page. I believe
Speaker 1: every one of our videos, at least most of our
Speaker 1: recent ones. And I say the last few months, I
Speaker 1: keep learning. I'm trying to get better and better. But
Speaker 1: in the comments you'll get our link tree again. We're
Speaker 1: on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit and tumble tumbere I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to stop, but I'm starting to get some
Speaker 1: reaction but the other three there's some activity. Twitter. I
Speaker 1: may eventually stop because I'm not getting too much Facebook.
Speaker 1: I'm only there out of really desperation, because that's where
Speaker 1: kind of everybody is, and some of our donors they're
Speaker 1: not anywhere else, so I would be abandoned. But Reddit
Speaker 1: is where we reach a lot of people and we
Speaker 1: get we have conversation, and that's really worth your time
Speaker 1: if you're into conversation, if that's what you want to do.
Speaker 1: And then of course you know our sub stack, which
Speaker 1: produces our podcast, which goes on to one of those
Speaker 1: mean podcasts things automatically when you do a substack, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to cancel my blog even though i got
Speaker 1: about three hundred articles on there. We're just about to
Speaker 1: start our annual membership funding drive, which we do from
Speaker 1: January two to the Spring equinox every year and we
Speaker 1: try to get new members, hopefully to get a couple
Speaker 1: of new donors. This past year, we've invested thirty thousand
Speaker 1: into painting the building. The year before we fix the
Speaker 1: roof at twenty grand. We're putting in a great effort.
Speaker 1: The volume of time I put into all the social
Speaker 1: media you got so much that we have to offer
Speaker 1: to teach you. It's all up front, it's all free.
Speaker 1: If you can give a donation grade. If you want
Speaker 1: to subscribe to my substack as free or as a
Speaker 1: paying member, great.
Speaker 2: Come.
Speaker 1: Try us out, test our ideas. Quiz me. Disagree, but
Speaker 1: don't be disagreeable, and let's explore life together. And you
Speaker 1: just might make a point something I didn't understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want after the show, email me all
Speaker 2: your links and I'll make sure I include them down
Speaker 2: on the bottom, you know, in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Just all you have to is click on the link tree,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, just click on the link tree.
Speaker 1: You got all our links.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we use that as well. All right, awesome, Yeah,
Speaker 3: give me a link train. I'll make sure I included
Speaker 3: in the show notes. Lisa, thank you very much again
Speaker 3: for coming on. I appreciate it. It's always always great.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you both for some great questions and
Speaker 1: and I had fun then you made me laugh, so.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah hell yeah, oh yeah, I don't know that
Speaker 3: that was some great That was some great stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I definitely like to get you back on in the future,
Speaker 3: maybe talk about some more specific topics. Uh again, thank
Speaker 3: you both, and that is the end of another record
Speaker 3: read and until the next one, everybody be well later,
Speaker 3: be well.