1 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,519 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune Tripcast for Tuesday, 2 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,399 September ninth, twenty twenty five. I am Matthew Watkins, editor 3 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,199 in chief of the Textas Tribune, and I'm all alone 4 00:00:27,399 --> 00:00:31,800 in trib cast headquarters today as Eleanor is on vacation 5 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:36,880 and my two guests are both joining me remotely from 6 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,719 work travel as well. But because Eleanor is on vacation, 7 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,320 that means I got sole discretion and deciding what we're 8 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,359 talking about this week, and that means a topic of 9 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:50,399 conversation that is frequent and common in the Watkins household, 10 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,960 the Star Test and its future, its demise, and its replacement. 11 00:00:55,439 --> 00:00:58,679 After two failed efforts in the regular legislative session in 12 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:02,640 the first special session, lawmakers last week approved a bill 13 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:05,120 that would eliminate the Star Test and replace it with 14 00:01:05,159 --> 00:01:07,959 something new starting in the twenty seven to twenty eight 15 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,040 school year. And we're going to break that down today 16 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:14,159 with two experts on the topic. First off, an education 17 00:01:14,359 --> 00:01:17,480 reporter for the Texas Tribune. Stay Ha day joining us 18 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,959 from Indiana? Is that right? 19 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: Stayha, I'm in Chicago right now, so hanging in that. 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Room, all right, Very good, very good, Well, welcome Staha, 21 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:32,640 and we also have bridgid warlead, Chief State Impact Officer 22 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:35,840 for the Commit Partnership, which is a Dallas County nonprofit 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,799 seeking to improve educational and economic outcomes within Dallas County. 24 00:01:41,239 --> 00:01:44,920 Bridget is joining us from a hotel in New Orleans. 25 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: I am I am happy to be here all. 26 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:51,239 Speaker 1: Right, thank you for joining us. So, the Star Test, 27 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:56,280 like I said, has been a hot topic for parents, teachers, educators, 28 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,840 and many other people over the past few months. A 29 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,560 lot of conversation and debate that got us to the 30 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,719 place we are right here right now. Steha, I want 31 00:02:05,719 --> 00:02:08,120 you to kind of start by talking about the present. 32 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:10,039 The Star Test, which will remain in effect for a 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,639 couple of school years right now, was very controversial leading 34 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,759 to the changes that we saw. But tell us a 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,960 little bit about like the testing arrangement that we have 36 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:23,080 right now in Texas schools. 37 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: So this is a huge pain point for family, Like 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,199 across the state of Texas, it's been the current standardized test. 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,240 It's one test at the end of the year, it 40 00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:40,360 runs for it's for hours and hours, and kids once 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,439 they finished taking the test, they have to sit at 42 00:02:42,439 --> 00:02:46,759 their desk and not move. It's just like stay silent. 43 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,759 And it's also I think because it's at the end 44 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,479 of the year and students know that not just them 45 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,000 are going to be graded on it, but teachers and 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,280 their schools are going to be graded on it. It's 47 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:02,599 really really stressful for them. So it's been a topic 48 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:05,159 that has I think come up on the campaign trail 49 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,639 for lawmakers because they are hearing about the stress that 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,120 it puts on students. They hear from their own kids 51 00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:13,919 this idea that students don't even want to go to 52 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,319 school on the days that testing is taking place because 53 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,319 of the pressure. So there's this general consensus across the board, 54 00:03:21,479 --> 00:03:24,560 across the state, across lawmakers that something needs to be 55 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:28,159 done about this test that is really really putting an 56 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,479 unnecessary amount of stress on students. 57 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the idea here, right to take a step back, 58 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,560 is to measure how successful schools are at educating their 59 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,439 you know, students and preparing them for life beyond high 60 00:03:44,479 --> 00:03:46,800 school and things like that. And I guess there's also 61 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,240 an element bridget two to kind of measure you know, 62 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,400 whether the individual students have enough you know, have gained 63 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:58,639 enough knowledge to complete their schooling or advance in their schooling. 64 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,159 And things like that. I mean, what does Bridget is 65 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:04,719 it sets up a lot of high stakes, right, and 66 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 a lot of nervousness. I have a third grader and 67 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:12,120 a seventh grader, my two kids very different attitudes. On 68 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:15,280 the one hand, I have my daughter, the you know, perfectionist, 69 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,399 wants to ace the test, very stressed, very concerned. I 70 00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:21,879 have to sit her down and be like, look, it's okay, 71 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,680 like you're going to do fine on this test. They're 72 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,519 really what the what really matters? This is for the school. 73 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,160 This is not going to affect your kind of individual 74 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,720 success as a student. And then I have my son 75 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,279 who could care less about this test, you know, and 76 00:04:36,319 --> 00:04:39,040 our teachers like, hey, can you like bribe this kid 77 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,319 to really focus and try hard? And you know, and 78 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,600 so we have to sit him down and say like, hey, 79 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,079 actually this test matters, and if you do well on it, 80 00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:48,759 we'll get you a lego set or something like that. 81 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,759 And so, I mean, that's that's the stakes, right. Bridget, 82 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,720 tell us a little bit about kind of in your 83 00:04:56,759 --> 00:04:59,959 community in the area you felt face, kind of how 84 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:03,480 people feel about, you know, whether the star was doing 85 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,079 a good job of accomplishing the goals that it was 86 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,720 set out for sure, So there's. 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,519 Speaker 4: A lot in that question, so I'm going to work 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,160 to unpack it. 89 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 3: Also, legos are powerful, and that's something we should all 90 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:21,480 take away. So assessments are incredibly important because they help 91 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,199 us measure whether students are learning in the classroom. And 92 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,639 I think one thing that is missed a lot when 93 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,879 people talk about the high stakes nature of our assessments 94 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:37,240 is that Texas is actually pretty unique in our accountability 95 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,800 system that the result what we measure is the better 96 00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:46,279 of absolute performance and growth, that is not those two 97 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:49,839 things being one or the other the better. That is 98 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,680 not common in most state assessments. So when we're giving 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,600 students state assessments, what we're really measuring at the end 100 00:05:58,639 --> 00:06:01,160 of the day is did the student come in at 101 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,839 least a year further along than they did when they 102 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:08,639 walked in, making sure that the instruction that happened in 103 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,279 that classroom didn't put them further behind. And that is 104 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:16,120 something that when I talk to people, everyone generally is 105 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:18,560 very supportive of. We want to make sure our students 106 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,199 are continuing to progress further. So I think part of 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:27,000 this is also just reframing what assessment and accountability is 108 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:32,639 truly measuring. The other thing that I will say is 109 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,839 I think this whole debate has been a bit of 110 00:06:36,879 --> 00:06:41,079 a call to action for the adults that are around 111 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,639 our students around assessments. When I was a student, we 112 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,600 had state assessments and the only thing I remember is. 113 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:49,959 Speaker 4: We got pancakes that day. 114 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 3: My mom made us like a bigger breakfast that day 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,920 than we normally did. I was a teacher. I was 116 00:06:54,959 --> 00:06:59,079 an elementary school teacher, and my kids didn't. I never 117 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,879 talked to my students about the assessment having a connection 118 00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:05,199 to the rating of our school or my evaluation. We 119 00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:07,680 talked about it as a way for them to demonstrate 120 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:10,480 everything that they had learned that year. So I think 121 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:14,519 there's a reframing also around the narrative of what this 122 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:19,199 opportunity is for students. But then the third thing that 123 00:07:19,279 --> 00:07:22,600 I think is important is that this debate caused us 124 00:07:22,639 --> 00:07:27,439 to step back and think what components of our assessment 125 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,240 system are really necessary? Do we need kids sitting for 126 00:07:30,439 --> 00:07:33,600 hours in an assessment to determine whether or not they 127 00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:35,360 have learned what they were taught? 128 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: No, we don't, And. 129 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 3: We see those changes in here. We also see changes 130 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:42,839 to the assessment that are now going to give much 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,160 better actionable data to parents and to teachers at checkpoints 132 00:07:48,199 --> 00:07:50,879 throughout the year. So it's not here's a test we 133 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,360 give you at the end of the year, and by 134 00:07:52,399 --> 00:07:54,639 the way, the results aren't going to be available to 135 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:57,879 you until after the student has started the summer break. 136 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: Excellent, Okay, So a lot to unpack there, and I'm 137 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:06,480 very interested in a lot of those different topics. But Saiha, 138 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,240 just briefly, I mean, talk a little bit more about 139 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,279 the the What was it specifically about this test that 140 00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:16,439 people were unhappy with? 141 00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: You have so you have one test at the end 142 00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:24,000 of the year, and so that is that is the nature. 143 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,000 That's like, you have students they are learning all year 144 00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:28,199 through and then at the end of the day, at 145 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:30,639 the end of the year, they're taking one test. It 146 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,279 runs from it's designed to take about three hours, but 147 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,639 it can go up to seven hours. Folks are unhappy 148 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,000 because they are saying that the questions are too rigorous 149 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:45,320 and don't actually meet state standards. That's a criticism that 150 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:50,039 comes up, and I think the environment that these students 151 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,320 are in that there it's just like this amount of 152 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,879 stress that they're putting on their put under is just 153 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,600 it's not needed that there's a way to do this 154 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:03,440 that so that they're not under that much stress. And 155 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,200 I think there's another there's another piece of it to 156 00:09:06,759 --> 00:09:09,759 where Bridget, I think you were getting at this idea right, 157 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,720 like that you need standardized testing in order to be 158 00:09:12,759 --> 00:09:16,000 able to measure how students are doing in the classroom, 159 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,399 to measure whether schools are doing a good job educating students. 160 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,600 But the tests that are in place, that are currently 161 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,840 those scores will be factored into how schools are assessed. 162 00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:31,879 But are those tests doing a good job measuring student success? 163 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,399 School success are how are the tests formatted so that 164 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:40,519 they are doing the best job helping students to in 165 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:41,799 the learning process. 166 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,279 Speaker 1: So let's talk about HbA. Then this was the bill 167 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,600 that passed in the special session and it changed how 168 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:55,639 these tests will work. Break down for me, I'll go 169 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,279 to stay on this first and and then go to 170 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,559 you Bridget for your your analysis. Here, break down to 171 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 me what is different or what will be different once 172 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,080 these new versions of these tests are put in place. 173 00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:10,399 Speaker 2: Right, so you had currently we have one end of 174 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:13,919 the year test. What that will be replaced with is 175 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,840 three shorter tests taken throughout the year, so first at 176 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,759 the beginning of the year, then at the middle of 177 00:10:19,799 --> 00:10:22,000 the year, and then at the end of the year. 178 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,799 The first two tests in theory, schools should be able 179 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,960 to swap that out with tests that they're already giving students, 180 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,000 so tests that are familiar in the classroom, like map 181 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:41,399 testing that it's nationally recognized tests that students are taking 182 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:44,480 all over the country And so the idea with being 183 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,519 able to swap those beginning and the middle of the 184 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:50,519 year tests is that it'll actually reduce testing since they're 185 00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:52,639 not actually going to This is the idea, right like 186 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,360 the idea is that they're not going to have to 187 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:56,879 take an additional test because these are tests they can 188 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,679 just sub in. But it's not really clear yet exams 189 00:11:00,799 --> 00:11:03,159 are going to be able to be accepted for that 190 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:06,159 swap in, and then that last end of the year 191 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,960 test will still be one that the TEA has a 192 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:11,840 big hand in creating those questions that across the board, 193 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:15,840 every district has to take the same tests. All these 194 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:18,960 three tests should be shorter. They're designed to be shorter 195 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,279 than that one three hour test. But I think there's 196 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,000 a lot of questions right now about there's an intention 197 00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:29,360 for this to decrease testing. There's a lot of questions 198 00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:33,440 right now about what this actually increased testing. But in 199 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:36,320 addition to that, there's a lot of things of the bill. 200 00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:39,039 In addition to that, there's a lot of discussion about 201 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:42,120 how the grading will look like and what the results 202 00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:46,000 will look like. So the first two tests all three tests, 203 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,279 but really the first two tests will be known as 204 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,720 what is like nationally, it's what they're called norm reference tests, 205 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,159 and so that grading and the results will look like 206 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,519 percentile ranks. So students' performance is going to be compared 207 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,399 against the peer, so they may be in the fiftieth 208 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:06,440 percentile and there's sevent percentile. So all three tests you'll 209 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,600 get results that look like that. The end of the 210 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,759 year test will look really similar to what the Star 211 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,679 test looks like right now, in that the TEA sets 212 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,799 these benchmarks, right like you need to get x x 213 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,200 points in order to be meeting state benchmarks, and so 214 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,080 they set certain scores that students to reach to say, Okay, 215 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:32,600 I basically passed or I didn't pass, and that will 216 00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:36,200 assess you know, whether how what how many students in 217 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,799 the state are like meeting state goals or learning those 218 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:45,080 like state meeting state standards, and then it's a it's 219 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,879 a whole, it's a it's a lot of pieces, and 220 00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:49,759 then there's a piece of like we can expect test 221 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:52,159 scores to come back much faster. So in the past 222 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,639 we've had to wait weeks for parents to get their 223 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,440 test back, and so that has been an issue because 224 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:03,120 schools out and then you've got your test scores, but 225 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:05,840 you can no longer reach the teacher, right, and so 226 00:13:05,879 --> 00:13:07,600 you can no longer talk about it. It's the idea is 227 00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:10,200 now it's only supposed to take about two days, and 228 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,639 so the idea is, you know, you have these three 229 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,720 tests throughout the year. You should be able to use 230 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,840 these test results and information from the test results to 231 00:13:19,879 --> 00:13:23,440 actually change what is being learned in the classroom. And 232 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,240 also you're getting that information back quicker, so you can 233 00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:27,879 make those adjustments quicker. 234 00:13:28,759 --> 00:13:32,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. Two other just interesting things that I saw in 235 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,639 the bill. Right, this idea of practice tests. Right, one 236 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,440 of the big complaints I think among teachers and educators, 237 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,559 right is they have to spend so much time preparing 238 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,320 for the Star test that they're not able to focus 239 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,559 on actual teaching. Right, This would include correct me if 240 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,279 I'm wrong, a ban on kind of running students through 241 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,039 practice tests. One expert cited in a story you wrote, 242 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:56,320 Steja says, that would buy back, you know, fifteen to 243 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,120 thirty hours of lost instructional time by replacing that, and 244 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:02,799 then also just the number of tests things your tests 245 00:14:02,879 --> 00:14:05,200 on you know, being paired back a little bit english 246 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,840 to being one in particular, we no longer need to 247 00:14:07,879 --> 00:14:10,360 take that test anymore. 248 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: Okay, So I make a point about the practice test. 249 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it's important. 250 00:14:14,879 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 3: So it does prohibit practice tests, but it also now 251 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:22,159 by creating the beginning of the year and middle of 252 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,679 the year shorter assessments, it gives kids an opportunity. 253 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,879 Speaker 4: To practice for the end of the year. 254 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: Because there is a benefit to practice tests. 255 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 4: I mean, we all. 256 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,039 Speaker 3: Took practice tests for SAT and ACT. 257 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 4: You got to get used to the way the questions 258 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:37,320 are formatted. 259 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: And so while we're now removing the kind of okay, everybody, 260 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:45,279 we're going to take a whole practice assessment, we are 261 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,919 giving students access to shorter assessments at the beginning in 262 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,159 the middle of the year that look like the assessment 263 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,799 they're going to take at the end of the year. 264 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,519 It is true that in practice beginning of the year 265 00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,200 and middle of the year benchmarks are happening right now, 266 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,840 but they're a different testing vendor because the state doesn't 267 00:15:04,879 --> 00:15:05,519 create inter. 268 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,519 Speaker 4: Re benchmark right now. 269 00:15:06,919 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 3: Now, they will see similar test questions, similar format beginning, 270 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:14,440 middle and end of the year. So practice is still there, 271 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,279 but these long sit in and take practice. 272 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 4: Tests are gone. 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,919 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to watch this because we hear 274 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,759 these concerns, some of some of them are very much 275 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 legitimate about the frustrations with the test. But Bridget, I mean, 276 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:33,159 one of the things that's going on here too is 277 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:35,960 you need to measure whether schools are doing what's asked 278 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,639 of them, and in any situation, you know, it's it's 279 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,080 hard to come up with a fair and rigorous way 280 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,240 of doing that without a test. I'm struggle to think 281 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:48,879 of how that might look like otherwise. And if you're 282 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:51,279 going to have some kind of test that's going to 283 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,960 measure whether you can advance in a grade, whether what 284 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:56,080 you know, what letter grade your school is going to 285 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,919 get from the tea, and and you know, in extreme cases, 286 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,919 whether if you are failing that test for enough years 287 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,639 in a row, whether the TA might have the ability 288 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,080 or the power or the interest to take over the 289 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,240 government of your school district. When you have those kinds 290 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:16,200 of expectations, there's going to be pressure. And so I mean, 291 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,039 one of the things that I've wondered about is I've 292 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:20,519 watched this sort of play out, is like, is it 293 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,080 really possible to design a test that teachers and parents 294 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,799 and other people who are going to feel that pressure 295 00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:30,799 are going to be okay with, are going to be 296 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,080 happy with? Do you think that is possible? Do you 297 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,960 think it's important to do it? Anyways? And I guess 298 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,000 maybe the last question is do you think this will 299 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,519 get us closer to that goal? 300 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: So I do think it's necessary, And I will harken 301 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,679 back to what I said at the beginning that I 302 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,399 think everyone thinks that the evaluation is just based on 303 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,919 the ultimate score that the student gets. It is also growth. 304 00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,519 So again, we all want kids to come out of 305 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:03,039 each at least one year ahead of where they were, 306 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,079 or they're going to fall further behind. So I think 307 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,920 we have to have an assessment to measure whether that 308 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,799 is happening. And when we reframe it in that way, 309 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,559 it does take off a little more of the pressure, 310 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:19,319 especially for our schools and our teachers that are regularly 311 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,000 teaching students who come into their classrooms or their campus buildings. 312 00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 4: Behind the other thing. 313 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:30,079 Speaker 3: That I will say is that the assessment you said 314 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,799 fair and rigorous, I think the other one is valid 315 00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:37,519 and reliable. So we have to create an assessment because 316 00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:40,400 there are things tied to the assessment that we truly 317 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,160 believe the results are valid and reliable. And so that 318 00:17:44,319 --> 00:17:47,519 leads to some of the environment in which the testing 319 00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:50,440 is happening, and I think that that is absolutely necessary. 320 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:53,960 I think you asked whether this assessment will do that. 321 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,880 I think it will get us closer than we previously 322 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,279 have been, which is good new. I also think this 323 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,440 assessment will help our teachers and our. 324 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 4: Parents help their students. 325 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 3: So the language you see throughout this bill is instructurally 326 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:14,200 and of course I butcher it as I say it 327 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:20,160 instructionally supportive assessment. The goal is that when students take 328 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,519 the test, parents and teachers are now getting a report 329 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,400 that says, this is how your kid did compared to 330 00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:31,000 other kids in Texas, also compared to the cut scores 331 00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:34,599 of the certain achievement levels. And then here are some 332 00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:40,400 actionable strategies you can use to help your kid master 333 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,599 what they haven't figured out yet. So this is supposed 334 00:18:43,599 --> 00:18:47,559 to be used to inform instruction. So the ultimate goal 335 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,640 is to have students again progressing at least a year 336 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:53,480 so that they don't fall further behind, and I think 337 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,839 this test gets us closer to doing that. 338 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,279 Speaker 1: Now, do you have you heard from teachers, I mean teachers, 339 00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:03,359 school administrators and things like that. Do you think they 340 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,720 agree with that assessment that this is a step in 341 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:07,359 the right direction, that it's getting us closer. 342 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've talked to talk to teachers and 343 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,359 administors all over the state, and we're sort of getting 344 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,720 a mixed bag. Like I think on one hand, books 345 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:20,720 are saying like, we want these tests to be useful, right, 346 00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:22,920 and so then it's like if you have tests that 347 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,480 measure progress over the year, then that will actually come 348 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:29,119 in they can actually use that in the classroom and 349 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,680 it's shorter, and they like that. I think they hear 350 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,680 the idea of three tests over one test. I think 351 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,200 that for some teachers that ring some alarm bells, like 352 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,799 is that just going to be going to be more testing? 353 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,640 Is that going to just create you know, the pressure 354 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,119 that you're feeling at the end of the year, now 355 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,000 is that just going to be tripled? So I think 356 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,319 there's just some anxiety right now, and it's like there's 357 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,880 a lot to be seen, Like we don't know yet 358 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,759 what those beginning and middle middle of the year tests 359 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:58,920 will look like, what whether they'll actually be able to 360 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,200 swap it out for tests that they're already taking, and 361 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:03,920 what those tests could look like there. So there's so 362 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,559 much unknown about those first two tests. So I think 363 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:10,000 in that uncertainty, we're hearing some like some worries. 364 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: Okay, very good, very good. Yeah, it just I mean 365 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,119 I have watched this with a lot of interest because 366 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,240 I see it play out, you know, in the news 367 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,240 and in our coverage. I also see it play out 368 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,680 in my own personal life. But I also just remember 369 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,279 the history, right, so, you know, this is what the 370 00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:31,200 fifth or so version of a standardized test that that 371 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,680 Texas has done. You know, it started off with the 372 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,559 Texas Assessment of Basic Skills. Then you had the teams test, 373 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,720 the Toss test, which is the test I took when 374 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,880 I was a kid. Then they switched that to the 375 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,039 Text test, Then you had the Star Test. You know, 376 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,480 there has been a lot of sort of bites at 377 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,359 this Apple attempts to try to try to get this 378 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,720 to where they need to be bridgid, what do you think, 379 00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:02,519 what do we know differently now than we knew back 380 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:06,359 then That might suggest that this might be a different 381 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,160 situation here. 382 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,839 Speaker 3: So I will start by saying I arrived in Texas 383 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,880 in October of twenty nineteen, so I only know the 384 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,000 star and then this assessment. I grew up in Virginia, 385 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:24,240 which has the worst testing acronym standards of learning SOL, 386 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,200 and it's been SOL since I was there and continued. 387 00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: So that's one. 388 00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:31,759 Speaker 3: State that is stuck by its name because it's almost 389 00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:36,640 humorous at this point. So I can't talk too far 390 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,440 back about how things have changed from one to the other. 391 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:45,359 I do think though, this is less of a change 392 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,720 in the purpose of the assessment and what the assessment 393 00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:54,640 is assessing, and it is directly trying to target the 394 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,480 feedback that has come from parents and teachers. I don't 395 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,119 know if the other assessments in the past have done that, 396 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:04,000 but the shortening of the test, the assessments giving back 397 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,480 given back earlier, and trying to create a more introductionally 398 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:12,880 supportive that has all been in response to feedback that 399 00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:15,839 I know legislators are getting constantly. 400 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,519 Speaker 1: Okay, so you had an interesting story kind of in 401 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:22,759 the beginning of the special session, honing in on a 402 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:25,640 school that has really struggled in the previous or the 403 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,359 current version of the of the testing of the Star test, 404 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,359 that being Adobe Middle School in Austin, right, which has 405 00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:36,039 has received a failing grade for multiple years, could be 406 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,759 starting to kind of look at that situation where it 407 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:42,279 could be required by the state to either be shut 408 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:47,200 down or reworked or make AISD vulnerable to you know, 409 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,240 being essentially taken over by the state. Can you talk 410 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:53,319 a little bit about just what you learned from going 411 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,079 to that school and how they felt about this you 412 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,000 know testing setup. 413 00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 3: Right right? 414 00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:03,519 Speaker 2: I think so the school is Adobe Middle School in Austin, uzety, 415 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,200 and I think that school and what they're navigating really 416 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,000 does a good job illustrating the stakes of having really 417 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,880 like an effective accountability system. So here in Texas, it's 418 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,880 if you get five F ratings in our accountability system 419 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,480 in a row, then you are at a risk of 420 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:26,039 like the most severe state sanctions. And so that is 421 00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,119 that what you're saying, like at the state coming in 422 00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:33,559 taking over a democratically elected board. They could instead also 423 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,559 require school to shut down. But Adobe at this point 424 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,200 is at four FS, so they are teetering. They are 425 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:44,200 very close at to you know, risking the most severe 426 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:48,960 state sanctions. But what was going on Adobe is so 427 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,759 they are in the school is really like really predominantly 428 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,519 immigrant community, really just economically disadvantaged, high rate of economically 429 00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:05,559 disadvanta students and so and also it's just the immigrant 430 00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:09,359 community comes in because and it's a strong refugee community 431 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,319 as well, so a lot of the students that are 432 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:15,319 coming in don't speak English very well, and so for them, 433 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,640 like English is their second or third language. And so 434 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680 there was a lot of frustration with the Star test 435 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,039 for them because on top of you know, the concerns 436 00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:28,440 that we're hearing across the board, across school districts all 437 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:35,119 over the state that it's long, it's stressful, and it's 438 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,079 just unnecessary. They're saying that on top of all those things, 439 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,319 we have students who don't they're forced to take the test, 440 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,480 they have to take the test in a language that's 441 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,839 not their first language, and so everything is just becomes 442 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,359 added and exacerbated, and so they didn't feel like the 443 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,000 Star test did the best job assessing whether the school 444 00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:01,200 was successful at educating theirs. So there was this interesting 445 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,599 disconnect where it felt like the state was coming in 446 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,480 and saying the school was not doing a good job 447 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,799 educating the community or supporting the community, but then the 448 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:14,920 community was saying, no, actually, we do feel really supported 449 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,920 by the school in all these like intangible ways that 450 00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:23,720 testing doesn't measure. And so I think like that that 451 00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:26,880 disconnect I think comes up when we think about an 452 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,400 accountability system and how do we measure whether schools are effective. 453 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,359 And of course here in Texas, testing is the biggest factor, 454 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,519 and how students perform on these tests are the biggest factor. 455 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,599 But I think there's also been a call in recent 456 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,039 years to think about metrics that aren't just testing. Right, 457 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:51,000 It's like our students participating participating in workforce readiness programs, 458 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,880 How are students doing in kindergarten? What does do how 459 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,240 are students like mental health and mental wellness? And so 460 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,000 that also actually came up in this HbA because while 461 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:05,640 we're not going to see the accountability system and how 462 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,440 things are calculated change from non testing factors, there is 463 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,400 a clause in the bill that is asking the state 464 00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:17,759 to start tracking these like non testing metrics. So that 465 00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,319 did seem like an nod to those sort of concerns. 466 00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: Brigina, I wonder what you think about that. I looked 467 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,200 up the data on Adobe before we came in here 468 00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:29,799 Toa's data on this. It says that fifty one percent 469 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,920 of the students they are chronically absent, seventy two percent 470 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,119 have limited English proficiency, eighty seven percent are economically disadvantaged. 471 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,440 When you're talking about what is asked of that school 472 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,440 beyond kind of the standard, you know, what was asked 473 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,279 of safe for instance, the upper middle class school that 474 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:55,839 I went to, it feels like the task, the challenge 475 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,119 at hand, and all those things are so different that 476 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,160 it would be hard to measure each of those to 477 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,599 schools in a different way. What do you think about 478 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,359 on the other hand, I mean, the goal of the 479 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,279 schools is to prepare students, to help them, you know, 480 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,119 get caught up and you know, be ready for whatever 481 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,839 is going to come next in their life. What do 482 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,160 you think of the feedback that SNA heard from a 483 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,720 community like that as we think through these challenges. 484 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 3: Sure, I didn't think I was going to tell more 485 00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,480 my personal story on here, but I will give a 486 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,039 snippet because I think it helps frame this. I grew 487 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,119 up in a very upper middle class area. I went 488 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,559 to college and decided to enter teach for America because 489 00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:43,359 I thought every kid needed to have a school that 490 00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:45,599 was as good as the school that I went to 491 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:48,359 that was I'm pretty sure I said it in my interview, 492 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:53,920 but what I learned after teaching in a eco high 493 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,119 Eco disc school in Louisiana was actually that the school 494 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,480 I was at needed way more resources than the. 495 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,559 Speaker 4: School that I had been at. 496 00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 3: They needed better teachers than the school that I had 497 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:11,240 been at, And so it is a complex topic. It's 498 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:16,319 a difficult topic to talk about, but I think assessments 499 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,319 and these assessment results and the consequences that we've been 500 00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:25,119 talking about, like state takeover, actually shine a flashlight on 501 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,920 areas where we need to be putting more resources, we 502 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:31,160 need to be putting our best teachers, and that is 503 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,200 actually now happening at Adobe. They are going forward with 504 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:41,240 resource campuses, which is one of the it was included 505 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,960 in HB two from the last session, where they are 506 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,960 now meeting a threshold where at least half of their 507 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,079 teachers in the core subjects are going to be TIA designated, 508 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,880 meaning they're in the top third of the best teachers 509 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,640 in all of the state. So those results are actually 510 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:01,319 driving some pretty bold action that are going to be 511 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,960 life changing for the students that are on that campus. 512 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,440 They are now getting access to the best teachers in 513 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:10,400 Austin ID or teachers that have come from outside of 514 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,680 Austin ISD. The one other point that I want to 515 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,000 make because I agree with everything snehas said, but I 516 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,680 think it wouldn't be I wouldn't be representing commits if 517 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,559 I didn't bring a little bit of data. 518 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,119 Speaker 1: And what our. 519 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: Results have shown is that let's stick with just students 520 00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:34,119 who are meeting that economically disadvantaged designation. On an aff 521 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,720 rated campus, nineteen percent of those students are meeting grade level. 522 00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,319 On an A rated campus, fifty four percent of students 523 00:29:43,359 --> 00:29:48,319 with economically disadvantaged designation are meeting grade level. So we 524 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,720 have campuses, school leaders, and teachers across the state who 525 00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:56,559 are showing what is possible when you really rally around 526 00:29:56,559 --> 00:29:59,279 a community, you put resources into the school, you put 527 00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:03,039 your best teach, And that is the story that I 528 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,799 like to tell when I go look at accountability results. 529 00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,880 I go find those campuses immediately because it's just a 530 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,240 reminder of what's possible. 531 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really interesting point 532 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,920 because if you are a parent, you probably only know 533 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,240 the experience in one school, and it's hard to know 534 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:25,200 about what's working elsewhere and what's going on. The Charles 535 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,839 Butt Foundation really suppul last year saying really around like 536 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,880 ninety percent of parents are happy with their children's education 537 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:36,400 in Texas, which, you know, that's a positive number and 538 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,240 that's a good thing to see. On the other hand, 539 00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:43,000 less than half of students are graduating from high school 540 00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:47,960 in Texas college ready in both reading and math. The 541 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,039 average SAT score in Texas is under one thousand. You know, 542 00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:54,759 less than a quarter of students are in Texas are 543 00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,880 taking any AP courses. I mean, there's unquestionably room to grow. 544 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,160 I mean, I think some of the question here is 545 00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,720 who gets decide who gets to decide what is acceptable, 546 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,200 who gets to decide what is working? And should you 547 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,160 base that on data? Should you base that on parent 548 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,359 sentiment or what? I mean? This seems to be bridgid 549 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,319 the question that the state is sort of grappling through 550 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,319 by talking through this test, and. 551 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: There's been a lot of conversations about including parent and 552 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,559 student surveys. There's been conversations about other indicators to put 553 00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:35,599 into the accountability system. Surveys come up a lot, surveys, 554 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,240 I think tell a very interesting story. We just get 555 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:42,519 back to this valid and reliable measure. We want to 556 00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:46,559 make sure that parents can speak freely on these surveys, 557 00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:48,599 and we want to make sure every survey is counted, 558 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,480 and just to do that takes a lot of work. 559 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:54,759 It actually takes a lot of cost. So it's something 560 00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:58,759 that we should continue to explore because I think the 561 00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:03,000 parent experience the student experience tells a lot about a campus. 562 00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:10,039 But we can't step back from having academic results be 563 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,519 the primary driver because at the end of the day, 564 00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:15,480 I mean, what I was taught when I became a 565 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:21,000 teacher was the direct correlation between teaching and learning. You 566 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:23,759 can teach or you can think you've taught, but if 567 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:27,400 the kids didn't learn it, you didn't teach it. And 568 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,359 that is something that we just need to continue to 569 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,640 remind people of the public good that our public schools 570 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,079 are and we have to hold them to that bar. 571 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,039 Speaker 1: So stay out what happenshead. 572 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: No, I was just going to say, I think the 573 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,039 thing about like test performance is like it really is 574 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,880 an indicator of options that students have after they leave 575 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,440 high school, right, Like we know that like how students 576 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,240 do in English as early as third grade has like 577 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,359 a long term predictor of how they'll do in high 578 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,400 school and then beyond. And then there's this like when 579 00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,960 students are under performing in math that raises serious concerns 580 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,680 about you know, are we building students who can enter 581 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,119 a future workforce and get those like high paying jobs 582 00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,319 that can lead them to live the lives that they 583 00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:21,640 want to leave. So it's I think there's a balance 584 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,759 here and what should have weight and what shouldn't, But 585 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:26,640 there is a piece of testing that that really is 586 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,000 important and thinking about, you know, the success of students 587 00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:30,519 later on. 588 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I wonder Bridget if you could help 589 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,599 me sort of put this in context a little bit 590 00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:42,759 more broadly with the broader education policy in Texas right now. 591 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:46,519 I mean, it does seem to me like the state legislature, 592 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:49,960 state leaders, the tea, all those different kinds of groups 593 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,559 are really trying to do, you know, some pretty dramatic 594 00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:58,279 things in order to you know, improve the outcomes of 595 00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:03,759 students in this state, whether it's related to teacher pay, 596 00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,720 whether it's related to testing, whether it's related to this 597 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,159 you know, Bluebonnet curriculum, which has gotten a lot of 598 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:13,079 pushback from folks due to you know, how much religion 599 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,119 may be included in that. But but there does seem 600 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,239 to be like a broader strategy here right now to 601 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,719 say among state leaders that the status quo is not 602 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,480 working and that there need to be more interventions. There 603 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:32,079 needs to be maybe even more pressure on some of 604 00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:36,519 these school districts to improve on the metrics that they're 605 00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:39,119 they're taking. You do you agree with that assessment? 606 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 607 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,760 Speaker 3: I think high impacting which we saw in the last 608 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,000 two sessions are previous two of the last three sessions. 609 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,960 I don't even know how many sessions right now is 610 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,159 another example of that. I think there is a real 611 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,639 Texas is not proud of where our academic results are 612 00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:03,199 coming out. I was at the Louisiana Department of Education 613 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,039 for nine years before I came to Texas and saw 614 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,519 all of those headlines coming out about the results going 615 00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:13,199 up in Louisiana, and I was around Texans saying we 616 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,000 can do that we can do that same thing and 617 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,679 asking me how, And the answer is by looking at 618 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,639 or following the research, following the data on what are 619 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,679 the strategies that work, what are the strategies that turn 620 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,719 around academic outcomes? And they are high impact tutoring. They 621 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,400 are putting the best teachers in front of the kids 622 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,840 that need it the most. There are states that have 623 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,840 shown us how to do this, and the Texas legislature 624 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,719 has been paying attention and has been putting some serious 625 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,840 momentum behind those strategies. And I'm optimistic that we already 626 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,519 we saw on the most recent star results, the most 627 00:35:56,559 --> 00:36:01,159 recent accountability results, we are seeing a change. Our urban 628 00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:06,639 school systems actually improved three times the rate that the 629 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:11,920 state improved sour Our school systems that have students that 630 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,559 need the most support are actually showing some pretty overwhelming growth. 631 00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: On the flip side of that, say, has there there 632 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,639 may be a bit of a loss of local control, right, 633 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,880 I mean you were you were seeing in some cases districts, 634 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,519 you know, leaders express frustration because they feel like their 635 00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:33,480 closest on the ground level and are maybe you know, 636 00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:37,519 losing a little bit of their ability to make decisions 637 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,199 at the local level. 638 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,519 Speaker 2: I think the elephant in the room, right is Houston 639 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,519 iced and right like that we had that is our 640 00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:52,760 biggest school district taxes and the state came in and 641 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,800 took over and appointed superintendent and with the latest test scores, 642 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,880 I mean that superintend Mike Miles, I mean he really 643 00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:05,280 touted that there were no SS at any campus, that 644 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,400 he was really able to get test scores up. But 645 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,360 there were caught there. It was a sort of like 646 00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:16,840 now forgetting the word, but like there were trade offs 647 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,519 to that, right, Like we saw plenty of students like 648 00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:23,400 leave and droves, there are questions about enrollment, there was 649 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,639 a cutback on social services, and certainly there was a 650 00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:29,360 loss of local control. And so then it is you know, 651 00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:33,440 we did see test scores improve in Houston, but to 652 00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:37,360 what end? And so I think there there I see it. 653 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,599 I see two pieces to it, which is like, you know, 654 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,599 on one hand, you can use test performance to identify 655 00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:48,239 where schools need additional resources and make investments, kind of 656 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,960 like what Bridget was saying. But there's also a piece 657 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,039 where you know, there is real, real sanctions that are 658 00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,519 attached to these tests, these test scores. 659 00:37:57,639 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: Bridgiet I wonder if you could just describe quickly, what 660 00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:02,679 do you feel like the core tenants of that state 661 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,960 strategy are. I mean, you know, I think rewarding the 662 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,000 best teachers might be one. Are what are the kind 663 00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:14,000 of are there underlining ideals that are at the heart 664 00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:16,039 of the strategy we're seeing play out. 665 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 3: I think we're touching on a lot of it. I 666 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,800 think it is it is targeted. 667 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 4: Funding. 668 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 3: What we learned a lot in the eighty ninth is 669 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,599 that the legislature was not interested in providing increases to 670 00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:38,599 the basic allotment. They were not interested in providing schools 671 00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:43,760 unrestricted funding. They really wanted to know that extra funding 672 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,159 going into school systems was tied to specific strategies that 673 00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:50,679 are working. So I think if there's one underlying tenant 674 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,960 right now, it's let's find out what's working and let's 675 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,920 invest in that which is fit. I mean that that 676 00:38:59,039 --> 00:39:03,360 is pulling back from kind of this belief that school 677 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,239 systems should be empowered to create their own strategies. So 678 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,239 I think there's two sides to that argument. For sure, 679 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,639 I think if I were crafting a policy, there's also 680 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,400 a world in which that control is earned. And if 681 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,000 we see school systems that are continuously proud graduating students 682 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,440 who aren't ready for college, who aren't ready for the 683 00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:33,840 jobs of the twenty first century. Then in those cases 684 00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:37,800 there needs to be some more It needs to be 685 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,960 more closely watched with some more support, which is or 686 00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:47,719 consequences though those school systems that are growing, that are 687 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,320 seeing improvement could potentially earn a little bit more empowerment. 688 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,440 I am now riffing off of my own personal beliefs 689 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,519 instead of the legislature, which is your question, so I'll 690 00:39:57,559 --> 00:39:59,360 reail it back in. But I think it really is 691 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,159 kind of that that targeted support is where the legislature 692 00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:08,840 and Texas officials are most interested and kind of putting 693 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,760 the resources that exist. 694 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,039 Speaker 1: What is a reasonable goal for an outcome? You know, 695 00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:19,400 in that strategy or approach. I mean, you know, Texas 696 00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:23,360 is has a strong economy. It's a wealthy state. It 697 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,480 also has a lot of poor people, and it has 698 00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:27,719 a lot of immigrants, and it has a lot of 699 00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:31,360 children who's for whom English is not their first language. 700 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,039 I mean, there are a lot of challenges that the 701 00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,840 state faces in trying to achieve these goals, like what 702 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,159 should the achievable goal be? As they as they think 703 00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:45,639 through this, well, I. 704 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:48,639 Speaker 3: Will tell you commit school, which is that by twenty 705 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,079 forty half of the young adults in Dallas County twenty 706 00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:56,039 five to thirty four will have earned a living wage. 707 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,239 And that is a very big goal. When we launched 708 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,760 that goal, we were at around thirty percent of those 709 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,119 individuals earning a living wage, and our goal is to 710 00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:10,760 get to half. I think that is going to take 711 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,639 a lot of work, it is going to take a 712 00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:15,679 lot of partnerships, it's going to take a lot of resources. 713 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,639 But I one hundred percent think that it is achievable. 714 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,599 And you say, you know, we have so many jobs 715 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,880 that are available now that are going to be available 716 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:26,760 in Texas, and I. 717 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,119 Speaker 4: Have let it be known. 718 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 3: On this I talked about Virginia, I talked about Louisiana, 719 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,840 so people know I am not a native Texan. I've 720 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,840 outed myself, but I'm a Texas Texan by choice. I'm 721 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,920 married into Texas, and I want to make sure that 722 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,599 those jobs can be held by Texans and that we 723 00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:47,840 don't continue to have to import our talent. 724 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,079 Speaker 4: In order to keep the Texas economy running well. 725 00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: Even though you are in Louisiana, right, now we still 726 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,480 accept you as a Texan, my choice that it is 727 00:41:56,519 --> 00:42:00,320 the Texas way right, Well, I'll take all covers. Yes, 728 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,880 thank you Bridget, thank you Snaja both for this conversation. 729 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,639 I'm excited to see how this will play out. And 730 00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:09,800 thank you to our producers, Rob and Chris. That is 731 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000 all we have for today. We will talk to you 732 00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:12,440 next week.