WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.720 Welcome to the Trauma Therapists Podcast. My name is Gamiferson. 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:07.839 I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping 3 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:11.000 those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.359 to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show. 5 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.239 So hi for me two and one, our folks, welcome 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:21.760 back to the podcast. Super excited to have as my 7 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:26.399 guest today, Doctor Stephanie Sachs. Stephanie, welcome, Thank. 8 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:28.679 You so much. I'm really excited to be here. 9 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:34.000 Appreciate it. Stephanie is a licensed clinical psychologist, a CPT trainer, 10 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.840 and co founder of Mind Science Collective, a continuing education 11 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:43.520 platform delivering practical, evidence based training for therapists in private practice. 12 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.679 She specializes in cognitive behavioral treatments for PTSD and trauma 13 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.840 related disorders and serves as a national trainer and consultant 14 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.280 for organizations including the National Center for PTSD, Strong Star, 15 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.759 and coen Veterans Network. She's also an adjunct professor and 16 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:03.079 published author in the field of trauma Artephanie, Obviously, just 17 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.239 a little bit about you before we get going. Share 18 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:07.519 with the listeners where you're from originally and where you 19 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.799 are currently sure. 20 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.640 So where I am from? Originally, I am from Santo 21 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.319 Domingo in the Dominican Republic. That's where I was born. 22 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:19.879 And where I am currently. I am in South Florida. 23 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:23.959 I'm about an hour north of Miami Foca Ratonde. 24 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.359 So let's start out, how the heck did you get 25 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:28.120 into this field? 26 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:32.599 Great question, I think. 27 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:37.000 To properly answer that question, I would have to go back. 28 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:40.280 To early ages. Really long. 29 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:42.319 We want to go back, Okay, we'll go back. 30 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:47.799 So my first memories that I have as a kid, 31 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:52.280 probably five six seven, that I link back to my 32 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.319 career is having these memories of just being kind of 33 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:02.200 obsessed with watching people and looking at their facial express 34 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:08.680 I'm in a great way, yes, exactly. I was fascinated 35 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.360 by feelings. I was fascinated by relationships. I was fascinated 36 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.719 by kind of the interchange of energy between people when 37 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.240 they engaged with each other and it felt safe and calm, 38 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.039 or times it didn't. And so something that I think 39 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:26.960 I was just born with is this essence of attentiveness 40 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:31.319 towards human and also a deep sense of empathy and curiosity. 41 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:34.120 And that's something that I've carried with me forever. I 42 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.599 think that was really the genesis of all of this. 43 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.840 And I also really loved school. I love learning. I'm 44 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:46.199 obsessed with learning, and so I would be reading everything 45 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:46.479 that I. 46 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:47.439 Could get my hands on. 47 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:50.319 You know, when I was an undergraduate, I was initially 48 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:55.240 a pre med major, and I was deep in the 49 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:58.520 throes of like the organic chemistries and all of that, 50 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.199 and around the same I know. 51 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:07.360 It's funny to think about now because my interests lies 52 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.599 elsewhere so deeply, but back then I was, you know, 53 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.479 really deep in the throes of the hard sciences. 54 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:18.759 And simultaneously at the same time, I took an introduction 55 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:22.560 to psychology class as an elective, and. 56 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:24.400 I was like, well, that's interesting. 57 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:26.919 I kind of had this vision for myself being a surgeon, 58 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.599 and once I took that class, it sort of got 59 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.960 the wheels churning about there being other ways to potentially 60 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:40.280 heal people that did not involve a scapel. And from there, 61 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:44.039 I took a personality course as another elective. Then I 62 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.159 took an abnormal psychology class as another elective, and at 63 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:49.080 that point, you know, I was really hooked and I 64 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:49.639 switched over. 65 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.759 You mentioned when you were younger, you had this fascination 66 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.919 with watching people and observing people. What did that look 67 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:00.639 like when you were a kid? Did it? Do you 68 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.800 just remember yourself just being aware of people, or what. 69 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.560 I remember being like at places of worship, for example, 70 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:16.439 and seeing like an older couple, the way that they 71 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:20.439 were interacting and having these moments of almost like decoding, 72 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:24.600 you know, how they're dance their relational dance with each other, 73 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.120 and being fascinated and being so curious about why it 74 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.600 is that so many different people show up in this 75 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.360 world in so many different ways. It's like I wanted 76 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:36.240 to be able to kind of peel back the curtains 77 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.839 and understand the why, and I could only see the what, 78 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.120 you know, And perhaps that motivated some of my interests 79 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.319 in being a surgeon, because I wanted to kind of 80 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:50.439 go inside, if you will, but just being very observant 81 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:54.480 and being very curious and being deeply, deeply empathic, which 82 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:58.759 is a muscle that has some challenges and some real strengths. 83 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.959 And I've learned a really hard that muscle more effectively 84 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.279 at the stage in my life, but early on, just 85 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:05.600 a deeply feeling kid. 86 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:11.319 So you start to get the psychology bug, if you will. 87 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.600 In what was that high school, you said, college, Okay, 88 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:19.319 so how do things unfold for you? 89 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:23.800 Yeah, So, once I took those few electives in psychology 90 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.199 and I started to fall in love with it, I 91 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.319 actually made the decision to I'd been doing like some 92 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.199 nannying on the side for extra spending money or working 93 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.680 at a restaurant, and I decided to seek out a 94 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.079 job as a personal care assistant in a group home 95 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:46.240 for women that were duly diagnosed. But the dual diagnoses 96 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:50.360 are really interesting. On one hand, they had either neurodevelopmental 97 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:56.120 disabilities or intellectual disabilities co occurring with serious mental illnesses 98 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.000 like schizophrenia, spectrum disorders, and bipolar disorder. 99 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:00.879 So this was wow. 100 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.319 Yeah yeah, oh girl. 101 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:06.399 Yeah. I was nineteen. 102 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:09.360 I had no idea what I was getting myself into, 103 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:14.680 and it was a transformative experience for me. I was 104 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.199 working alongside these women and providing care for them that 105 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.800 looked a lot of different ways, from helping make the meals, 106 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.560 from having therapeutic conversations. 107 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:25.560 You know, we had this. 108 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:29.519 One resident who ran away from the house multiple times, 109 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.600 and she, you know, really struggled a lot in relationships, 110 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.000 and she had schizophrenia and had really active hallucinations and 111 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.519 you know, I really got kind of thrown to the 112 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.600 wolves in some ways. And while in some ways I 113 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:44.639 would say I really didn't know what I was doing 114 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.199 and didn't really have a grasp on how to be 115 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:52.519 most effective there, I think I found my way pretty 116 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:58.000 young in how to connect deeply with people who were 117 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.759 really ill and who just wanted to be seen and 118 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:06.639 who just wanted to be understood and listened to. And actually, 119 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:08.639 you know, the one woman that I was just speaking about, 120 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:13.839 she inspired my career greatly to the extent that then 121 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.959 I ended up building in this expertise early in my 122 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.680 career working with people with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, and working 123 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:24.800 with folks with schizophrenia spectrum disorders is actually what clued 124 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.199 me into working with trauma exposed populations, because folks with 125 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.879 schizophrenia spectrum disorders have some of the highest prevalence rates 126 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:36.120 of trauma exposure than any other clinical population, and that 127 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.160 than healthy population, So they experienced traumas at a disproportionately 128 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.360 high rate. And so that's when I opened the doors 129 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:45.279 to well, you know, I really need to get some 130 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:47.720 training in this. And then I saw training in that 131 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:49.000 later in my career. 132 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.920 So you said, something interesting. You said that experience at 133 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.040 that group home was transformative and you kind of realized 134 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.920 a way or a very signal way of connecting with people. 135 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.360 Say more about that. How did you learn that? 136 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:10.800 You know, I think I learned by trial and error, honestly, 137 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:12.800 because it wasn't a setting where you have any kind 138 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:16.560 of like real supervision and anything that was remotely clinical 139 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.439 or about the millu. You had some training in supervision 140 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:23.680 about how to functionally help run the home and help 141 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:27.680 with the residents with specific care behaviors, but nothing that 142 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:33.480 had to do really with their symptomatology or their challenges, 143 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.480 or their larger values in life or their goals. And 144 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.879 something that I just sort of tried different things at 145 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.200 different times. Something that I came to learn is if 146 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.879 I just went into the client's world, that that would 147 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:52.320 be a powerful entry point in growing trust. And again 148 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.519 I was nineteen at the time, but I remember, you know, 149 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:57.960 with a couple of residents just setting up shop in 150 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.679 the front yard and putting some chairs out and just 151 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:03.639 having conversations with them where they were able to really 152 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:08.080 share with me what their active hallucinations were like, what 153 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:12.399 their childhoods were like, what they wanted in life, and 154 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:12.720 it was. 155 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:14.480 It was a beautiful experience. I loved it. 156 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:21.360 That's amazing entering into the client's world. It's so interesting 157 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.240 to hear you say that because I think a lot 158 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.399 of clinicians, well you weren't a clinician at the time. 159 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:30.000 I was a little baby, I was nineteen. 160 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.600 A lot of clinicians, you know, going in there with 161 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:38.679 their bag of techniques and interventions and juggling and trying 162 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:42.600 to figure out And here you were doing what probably 163 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:47.559 is the best thing in the world, which is and 164 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.080 learning that from a very kind of early part in 165 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:52.879 your career. It was crucial. That's amazing. 166 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.279 I appreciate you pointing that out because I hadn't really 167 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:57.759 thought about it in this way, and I think if 168 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:02.120 I had been more advanced in my career, I may 169 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:04.360 have gone in with that approach. It almost served as 170 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:07.559 a protective function for me to develop this other muscle 171 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.799 and this other way to actually not know those things. 172 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.320 Yeah, and it's kind of not I think it's natural too. 173 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.679 You know, you're in school, you're studying, you're learning all 174 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.639 these great things. You've got a bag of interventions. Of 175 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:19.919 course they're going to work. 176 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.279 Yeah, that's right, that's right, and I do think that 177 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.799 was the beginning of me fostering a quality that has 178 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.639 persisted in everything that I've done in my career since, 179 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.840 whether it's been more clinical, more training, more entrepreneurial. Is humility, 180 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.120 A lot of humility. There's a lot that I don't know. 181 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:42.320 I don't want to come in with all of these 182 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.759 assumptions based on what someone's chart looks like or what. 183 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:46.519 Any other you know. 184 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:49.720 I want to come in as a clean slate, getting 185 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.919 to know the soul that they are primarily, and then 186 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.600 we go from there. 187 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:58.120 There you go, there you go. All right, So let's 188 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:00.720 kind of jump before we do that. Just remind everyone. 189 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:07.320 I'm speaking with doctor Stephanie Sachs. You said you had 190 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:12.879 that experience working with individuals who were experiencing schizophrenia or 191 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:17.240 at schizophrenia're diagnosed, and there was a through line a 192 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:22.679 connection to trauma. Talk to us about when that got 193 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.120 on your radar. What was that like for you learning 194 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.639 about that? 195 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:31.279 Yeah, yeah, it was really unexpected. Honestly, I was early 196 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:34.639 at this point, I was in graduate school. I'd chosen 197 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.720 to attend a graduate school where my research mentor in 198 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:43.360 clinical psychology had expertise with folks with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, 199 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.320 and so I was really doing a deep dive. I 200 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:47.679 did a lot of clinical placements with folks with serious 201 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.679 mental illness, a lot of in patient psychiatric hospitals, acute, 202 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:57.120 long term va all kinds of different settings. And it 203 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:01.039 became very clear to me roughly in my my second 204 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:06.039 year of graduate school that a common denominator for these 205 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:11.200 folks was a preponderance of traumatic experiences in childhood and 206 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:16.080 in adulthood. And certainly there are certain kind of psychosocial 207 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.639 factors in folks with schizophrenia spectrum disorders that lend themselves 208 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.840 to an increased risk for future traumatization. For example, having 209 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.840 housing instability is a great example of that. You may 210 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.080 be more prone to a additional traumatization. But a lot 211 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:34.039 of these folks had childhood physical abuse, child had sexual abuse, 212 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.480 really chronic abuse, and then you know, it was sort 213 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:39.879 of the diathesis stress model. They may have had that 214 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:45.320 biological predisposition for future development of psychosis, but those traumatic events. 215 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.200 Served as the spark. 216 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.840 And as I saw that more and more, I as 217 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.799 I was beginning to learn skills to work with that population, 218 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.799 I realized, you know what I really need to I 219 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:56.879 really need to learn more. 220 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:57.840 I need to learn more. 221 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.840 And I ended up kind of straddling to labs and 222 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.480 joining this additional lab as well that was focused on 223 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.840 treating post traumatic stress disorder. And so I am so 224 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.519 grateful that I had this opportunity to learn one of 225 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:17.559 the gold standard treatments for PTSD, prolonged exposure therapy in 226 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.919 graduate school and to actually start applying it and using it. 227 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.000 And then this. 228 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.679 Dual interest continued to grow passed graduate school into my 229 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.840 predoctoral internship, which I chose to do at the Washington 230 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.519 DC Veterans Affairs Hospital, where I worked with some folks 231 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:36.159 with PTSD in the PTSD clinic, folks with SMI in 232 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.519 a different clinic. And then I stayed there, and I 233 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:44.200 did my postdoctoral fellowship focusing on trauma at the DCVA, 234 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.440 and then actually stayed on as I became more and 235 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.960 more skilled working with trauma exposure specifically PTSD. I worked 236 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.720 in the Washington DCVA for a handful of years in 237 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:55.519 the PTSD clinic after. 238 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:03.159 That, So you had all this incredible experience, very intense experience. 239 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:07.000 I mean, it's no joke working with trauma, working with 240 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:12.039 people who've experienced varying types of trauma. What was that 241 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:15.559 like for you? And just to take a side step here, 242 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.799 had you ever experienced any trauma yourself? 243 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.200 Well, you know, I think yes, I would say certainly 244 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.480 to the extent that even depends how we define trauma, 245 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.519 which we'll talk about in just a little bit, but 246 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.720 a culturative stress from immigrating from the Dominican Republic to 247 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.600 a really small town in North Carolina in the late 248 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.679 eighties where there were no Hispanic people there. 249 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:40.200 That's pretty stressful. 250 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.200 And let me just interrupt you. I didn't want that 251 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.360 to come across. As I was trying to qualify you more, 252 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:55.159 I was wondering, given your background, how did that impact, 253 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.600 you know, having any kind of a background, what was 254 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.559 it like for you to experience working with these individuals. 255 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.960 There were a few different reactions as my career expanded, 256 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.240 so initially, honestly, I felt a bit intimidated. You know, 257 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:14.200 the populations I've worked with, I remember having this experience 258 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.519 even in graduate school. I was working with people with 259 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:21.080 schizophrenia spectrum disorders doing therapy my first year. 260 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:21.960 Of graduate school. 261 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.039 That's a pretty severe population to be working with when 262 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.840 you're just getting your clinical chops, you're just figuring out 263 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.799 what's up and down. And then similarly, you know, not 264 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.240 only did I work with trauma exposed populations, but then 265 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:37.399 I worked in a Veterans Affairs Hospital PTSD clinic, which 266 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.639 what you're really getting there. These aren't single incident traumas 267 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.120 or just adulthood traumas that you're dealing with. This is 268 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:47.559 folks that typically have a whole lot of childhood abuse, 269 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.519 and then they go to the military and have another 270 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.320 whole lot of traumatic events, whether in combat or military 271 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.960 sexual trauma. They have tons of comorbidity psychologically and medically. 272 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.639 So I would say there were definitely times when I 273 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:08.519 felt out of my depth, and also I'm okay with 274 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.679 that for the most part, because I think I had 275 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.879 my finger accurately on the pulse of what lane I 276 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.559 was in a different stages in my career. For example, 277 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.159 when I was a postdoctoral fellow, I wasn't thinking of 278 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.240 myself as a seasoned clinician thirty years later. You know, 279 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.440 when I was an undergrad, I wasn't thinking of myself 280 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.279 as a graduate student. I tried to stay really anchored 281 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.919 and present and to seek a lot of support and 282 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:36.879 supervision and training so that I could become more comfortable 283 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.639 and more competent. But I would also say that a 284 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:44.519 quality that I have that has been quite helpful professionally 285 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.120 and personally is I have a pretty solid ability to 286 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:52.840 tolerate discomfort and uncertainty, and that allowed me to work 287 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.080 with those populations where I did initially feel intimidated. At 288 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:03.320 the same time, I also felt pretty honored. Quite frankly, 289 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:09.960 I love working with folks, particularly with PTSD that's pretty severe. 290 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:18.119 That's my favorite, because they are the epitome of the 291 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.880 strength of the human spirit. They are the epitome of resilience, 292 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.759 they are the epitome of willful in demanding that they 293 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.640 get their lives back, and that's contagious. 294 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:29.960 You know. 295 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.519 It allows me to challenge myself in my personal life, 296 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.160 to walk a life that's really honest, a walk of 297 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.599 life that is facing fears of my own. 298 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:46.720 Yeah, you struck me, as I mean, you're such a 299 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.759 good speaker, and you're so articulate, and you're able to 300 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:55.319 articulate your own experience so well, it's very inspiring. 301 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.640 Thank you. I appreciate that. 302 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:01.279 So let's talk about what you're doing now mindset collective? 303 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:01.799 What is it? 304 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:03.000 Yeah? 305 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.640 So I have also fallen in love with being an entrepreneur, 306 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:10.039 first with my private practice that I started about eight 307 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.200 years ago, with a lot of teaching and training that 308 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.039 I do, and I'll guess I'll tell you kind of 309 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:18.279 the story of how we started and where we are. 310 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:25.880 So what we're doing is we are a really engaging, 311 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:31.279 modern continuing education platform for mental health providers. And what 312 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.799 we know about continuing education is it's really hit or miss. 313 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.599 Sometimes continuing education courses are kind of lackluster, they're pretty rudimentary, 314 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.599 or they might not really speak to the kinds of 315 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.960 clinical issues that we're facing as clinicians. It might be 316 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.319 a bit out of touch. Sometimes we approach continuing at 317 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.039 is just a thing we need to check off the 318 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.640 list to be able to renew our licenses. And so 319 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.359 there's really been this gap that we are filling that 320 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:05.160 involves providing the kinds of training and opportunities for learning 321 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.119 that clinicians can get really excited about. Our courses are 322 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.079 media or courses are at all evidence based. They are 323 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.759 taught by trainers and clinicians who are in the trenches 324 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.359 doing the clinical work. Who are experts, who are engaging, 325 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.839 who are lively, and it kind of feels like you're 326 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:28.000 meeting with your favorite supervisor and having coffee over what's 327 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.279 going on clinically. And we have the kinds of courses 328 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.480 that allow clinicians to just take what they learn pretty 329 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:38.839 much right away and in part that practice or that 330 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.119 skill or modality in therapy with our clients that very 331 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.279 same week. And so it's highly applicable as well, and 332 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.680 it's all on a really beautiful platform. So we're really 333 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:53.079 really proud of what we've created. And the genesis of 334 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.359 Mind Science Collective was, you know, I've been doing training 335 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.599 for a number of years, dating back probably to twenty 336 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.480 thirty team or so, and have done continuing education courses 337 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.000 for other organizations. There used to be so a lot 338 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.400 of listeners might know simple Practice. So simple practice is 339 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:13.759 an electronic medical record system. They used to have a 340 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.920 continuing Education arm where they started to do some continuing 341 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:20.160 ED courses and they were awesome. 342 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:21.759 They were really. 343 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:28.319 Really engaging, they were compelling, they were solid empirically. Unfortunately 344 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.240 they ceased to be and so myself and other folks 345 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.759 that were doing continuing ED courses for them, we felt 346 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.079 really bummed out and found that there was this gap, 347 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.119 and so myself and four other co founders that had 348 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.400 been teaching for them came together first had some phone 349 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.480 calls and did some zoom calls, did some brainstorming, and 350 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:53.160 then launched this project of Love that is really for 351 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:56.519 clinicians who are eager to learn for the rest of 352 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:57.200 their careers. 353 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.000 So when you say it's for mental health clinicians or 354 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.279 therapists or providers, what is who? 355 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:05.319 Yep. 356 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.440 So you know, we're working on actually expanding our accreditation 357 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.759 because we just launched in January, but right now we're 358 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.200 accredited by the American Psychological Association, and so in different 359 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.839 states that might mean that not just doctoral level psychologists 360 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.759 are able to obtain continuing education, but also a lot 361 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:28.079 of master's level clinicians, so marriage and family therapists, social workers, 362 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:32.319 et cetera. And again, we're expanding our accreditation because ultimately 363 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:37.000 we want to be able to provide any therapist, anyone 364 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.799 who you know has that term therapist depending on different degrees, 365 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:41.799 because there are so many different degrees, we can have 366 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.160 the ability to get continuing education for the courses that 367 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:47.920 we have. We really want to have a wide reach. 368 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:55.559 So if you can pick out a particular course, go 369 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:58.920 into it a little more detail. Why I mean you 370 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:04.559 said they're meteor they're more engaging. Tell us why. 371 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.920 Sure take a course? It's so hard. There's so many 372 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:09.519 good ones. 373 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.480 So one, there's two that come to mind, I might 374 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.440 have to share too, But one that comes to mind 375 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.079 that I'll go with initially. It is it's called essential 376 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:24.119 Relational micro Skills when working with trauma exposed individuals. 377 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:24.680 Wow. 378 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:29.599 Title, I love it so much, and it's something that 379 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:33.079 I've been really attending to, obviously clinically for a long time. 380 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:36.519 I've become very knowledgeable about the research about all of this. 381 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.200 Essentially what that course is about and who it's for. 382 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:44.920 It's for clinicians that want to provide really effective treatments 383 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.160 for clients that have trauma exposure and any kind of 384 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.039 clinical sequala. So it can be PTSD, but it can 385 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.759 be other kinds of difficulties that can follow traumatic events, 386 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:58.599 and who are so committed to providing the most effective 387 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.079 therapies that they really want to stay within a particular 388 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:06.599 framework or protocol, but they also don't want to lose 389 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.400 out on the strength and the necessity for having an 390 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.720 extremely strong clinical relationship with your clients. And so in essence, 391 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.279 what this course provides is a vehicle to be able 392 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.559 to stay really faithful to whatever is the specific protocol 393 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:26.240 you're using, but have this discerning eye every moment of 394 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.519 every session for all of the different opportunities and entry 395 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.759 points to how we can strengthen the clinical relationship, To 396 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:37.480 how we can catch therapeutic ruptures before they start or 397 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.880 after they start and actually repair them effectively. For how 398 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.279 to work in dieads where yourself and your client have 399 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.039 some differences in ethnicity and culture, especially when folks have 400 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.720 experienced race based traumas, that can be a predictor of 401 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.240