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Speaker 1: Good afternoon.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 3: Now here are your hosts, Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon, and welcome to Gambling with an Edge. My

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name is Richard Munchkin, and Bob Dancer is not here

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with me today. He is off playing the secret game,

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so I'm not allowed to tell you where that is.

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But we are here today to talk with Max Ruman

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and Colin Jones about the twenty twenty five Blackjack Ball

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and Colin, you were inducted into the Blackjack Hall of

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Fame at this year's balls, so why don't we start there?

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How was the How You've been a front runner for

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the last few years to get into the Hall of

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Fame and this year you finally made it. How does

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it feel?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's an incredible honor.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun, and you know, it's cool

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to get We've been running black Chack Apprenticeship, I've been

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running it for a long time, running boot camps for

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a long time, and it's cool to see.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Just I feel like it's an honor for the entire

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community and all those guys that put in the grind

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to make the money, and yeah, huge honor.

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Speaker 2: And so Max, there was kind of a twist with

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the Hall of Fame voting this year. Do you want

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to tell us about what was new with the voting?

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Speaker 1: It was and the genesis was last year, I got

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a couple complaints from people that said, the only people

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that were getting in the ball getting in the Hall

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happened to be publishers or somebody who had done something

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else noteworthy, but it wasn't about playing the game itself.

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And I took that to heart and I told him

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before the party, I said, you know what, you were right,

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and we don't do that because you're one of those silent,

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stealth blackjack and other players. Nobody really knows about you

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except us that have seen you out in the trenches,

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and we've seen what you've don and I would venture

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to guess he's won tens of millions over the years.

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That's John Murray, and he got in and we just

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opened it up. So we allowed everyone who came to

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the ballplus I had twenty absentee ballots and they were

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allowed to write in the name of a candidate, and

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we got two names, and the runaway favorite was someone

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many people have never heard of named bj Traveler who

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may be among the top five blackjack players of all

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time and money won as far as discount programs and

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bringing in teams and that sort of thing. At tens

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of millions of dollars, we know that he's won. He

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irritated some people he published James Groschein's book in Chinese,

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and James said, you could have at least asked. But

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they became friends of sorts over the years. I don't

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even know his real name, and some.

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Speaker 2: People say his real name is Bob Wang.

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Speaker 1: And supposedly a pseud Now did you know that?

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Speaker 2: No, he always told me that was his name.

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Speaker 1: So he told you that name, Okay, So yeah.

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Speaker 2: But I mean the other thing about him is he's

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one of the most prolific blackjack authors in the world.

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I mean, he's written at least nine books, but people

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haven't heard of them because they were all written in Chinese.

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So but yeah, and he traveled all over the world.

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I have an interview with him, and I'll I'll put

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a link to my interview with him from Jesus. It

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must be ten or fifteen years old by now, and

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he had been in seventy six countries already, playing blackjack

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at that point. He also spent a bit of time

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in a jail in Nepal for they basically were trying

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to get a big dride from him. So, yeah, tremendously

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interesting character.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't it. Seventy six days he's spending Paul dungeon of

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some sort and yeah, yeah, scored for money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I have I confused seventy six with the

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number of countries he'd been in. But yeah, anyway, as

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I say, I'll put a link to the interview in

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the show notes so people can go check that out.

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He did die a few years ago, so he's had.

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Speaker 1: A fascinating career. Though. He really took comp hustling to

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a level nobody had ever done. And Don Johnson did

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a pretty damn good job. But his unlike Don, who

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would go one on one, he would literally take immigrants

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out of the crates get if they had passports. They

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used to give you something called Asian airfare. Many casinos

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still do, and that's most racist thing ever. If you're Jewish,

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or your police or anything else, you have to earn

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your airfare and they asked no questions. And these are

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the major casinos Las Vegas to day. If you have

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an Asian a basically Chinese Macau, any sort of passport,

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they will give you nine thousand dollars up front for

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a house of one thousand dollars for They'll give you

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nine thousand inn airfare for one hundred thousand dollars up front.

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So instead of getting his usual thirty five thousand for

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a million up front, he got ten people that he's

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got nine thousand. When they showed up and they did,

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he put them on buses and he brought them up here,

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and then he put him in motels because he booked

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him into rooms. Then he sold the rooms on the side,

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and he had spotters going around with them, and they

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were paying twenty percent rebates, and they were taking up

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to fifty thousand dollars a number at the Caesar's Palace

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at the time, and if you lost half a million,

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you got a twenty percent rebate. And he had scores

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of these teams coming in and just pounding them to death.

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They finally said uncle. But he made a whole whole

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whole lot of money off of that one.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I know. He was running people through Korea

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as well, where they had remad program.

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Speaker 1: He did a lot of this all over the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, So I just want to make it clear

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when you because you said when you were talking about

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this that John Murraih got in, what you meant was

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the right in people. The top two were picked to

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be on the ballot next year.

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Speaker 1: Right, But that's the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: They will be on the ballot for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Ever for the twenty twenty six The Hall of Fame,

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the existing Hall of Fame members and maybe a few sponsors,

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didn't have any any additional input whatsoever. We left it

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up to the our public, our little close community, you

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see what would happen. And what emerged was bj Traveler

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and John muri are now in the next ballot, which

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was fair. I think. I think it was a really

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good It settled into the right two people. So there

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we are.

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Speaker 2: So now let's talk about another one of the major

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differences about the ball this year, which was it was

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a costume party. And how did that come about, Matts?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure it took a lot of careful consideration.

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And that Ed said he couldn't come in until October

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because he was going to be out of the town.

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I said, well, that's right, by Halloween. Let's have a party,

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let's wear costumes. We started. That was the genesis, and

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it started growing on its own and they got pretty

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big and a lot of people wanted to do it.

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It was way beyond the success that we expected it

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was going to have. We expected maybe fifty people would

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show up in costume, and it turns out we had

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over one hundred and fifty people in costume. It was insane.

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It was a lot of people dressed up and we

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had the Halloween Costume Contest. Just some spectacular costumes, and

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I didn't pay enough attention to some of them. I mean,

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one was the what in retrospect I really really liked,

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and that was the guy that came as a Mississippi stud.

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He had a big mullet hairdo, and then he had

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a bodybuilder's big puffy arms but looked just like one

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of those jerk and walked around flexing all the time.

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But he's really great. This was probably his tenth ball,

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I think at least. Yeah, you much, but uh, but

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a lot of great costumes.

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Speaker 2: Like you were skeptical about the costumes to start with.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I didn't know if people would would really

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do it, you know, But no. I thought it was

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a ton of fun, Like, you know, the creativity. Some

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people had kind of matching costumes as far as like

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someone in their plus one. You know, there was Deadpool

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and Wolverine, and I don't know if you saw hit

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A seven and his wife were whole cards so that

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they they show up and they've got there, they're they're

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in a card costume. But then they had a thing

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covering it and then they had flashed really quickly and

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you know, could you tell what?

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Speaker 1: It was?

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Speaker 3: Just really creative and you know, and then and then

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there's the rella inflating costume. I don't want to say

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who was who, but you know, yeah, just it was

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a ton of fun.

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Speaker 1: We could use his name, wasn't that Andy Block? Yeah?

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And Andy Block's a terrific blackjack player and terrific poker player.

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He just a great gamble all the way around, and

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a patent attorney and a bunch of other stuff. And

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he's been to the finals a couple of times, and

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he went to MI I T and he's got Harvard law.

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And he still can't rememorize more than two cards at

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a time. Never could understand that. But we changed that

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this year. And it was more fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah, definitely, we want to

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talk about that, but we have to talk about the

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guy who won the best costume contest, because the most creative,

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imaginative costume that I think I've ever seen, and so

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brilliant in its simplicity. Max, you want to tell.

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Speaker 1: The party was starting and as you I imagine, we have

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triple security at these parties, and nobody gets in this year,

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but because they were in uh name tag, nobody got

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in without a name tag and we'd preapproved and they

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had to give us their handle, but we were there

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vetting every single person that walks in the door. Well,

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he walked in early, which I wasn't ready for, and

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the manager of the center came up and said, did

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you hire someone to be a washroom attendant? And I

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said no, And he said, there's some guy off the

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street and he's in there getting tips and he's in

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the bathroom and he's got this trays and all this

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stuff and he looks like a washroom and I said, well,

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let me go see. And I walked in. I said,

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excure's me. Who are you and he said, I'm your

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washroom attendant, Sir, and then I looked in and said

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math the washroom attendant. I said, is this a costume?

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He said yeah. I said, oh, this is awesome. You're

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right number one pick. It was so good. And he

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had these people flummocks at the place we were having

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the event. It's a very exclusive place. I don't know

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how he waseled in the door, but he got in.

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Speaker 2: He got I checked him in when he came in,

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and he showed me he he had brought his own

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mouthwashed paper cups, cones, you know, all the props that.

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Speaker 1: He had, a boxill of tic tacks and all the aftershaves,

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and it looked just like in the seventies when you

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would walk in. So I called the manager of the place.

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I said, can you bring us some cubes of ice

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and put them in the urinals because in the old days,

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in the seventies in Vegas, there was ice in every

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urinal and there was typically an African American man standing guard.

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And then when you took a leak, you peed all

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over yourself because it splashed on you and got on

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your hands, and you had to go wash and they

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would hand you a warm towel and they got a

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buck and it was one of the best jobs in Nevada.

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Those guys did really, really well, and he was acting

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like that guy. It was so good. So yeah, I

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was hats off. I thought it was just outstanding. But

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there's a lot of good ones.

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Speaker 3: His commitment to the to the character was I think

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what put him over the top. That he was in

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the bathroom for a long time handing out moist towels

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or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty good. That was pretty good.

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He got the boats. A lot of good contenders though,

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and a lot of people had a lot of fun

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doing that, and we're surprised they were. But we got

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feedback that it made for a much much better date

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night for husbands and wives because now they had something

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to do and talk to other women about, as usually

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people drag their wives around and they go do we

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got to put up with this nonsense again again and again.

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So now everybody's getting involved. So hopefully this can evolve

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into a date party and something exclusive, and we've talked

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about this. I'm not sure if that's what's going to happen,

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but it might be pretty cool if the Blackjack Ball

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became a costume party at the end of end of Octobers,

240
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and became something analogous to the met Gala or something.

241
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But it's a costume party for blackjack people because if

242
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we all costumed up, we could actually take pictures at

243
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the ball. This was my twenty eighth mall. I don't

244
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have any pictures, you know, we always realizes everything we do.

245
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I've always had a no pictures allowed at the ball,

246
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so this year we actually allowed some. So Ed Thorpe

247
00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:10,159
graciously posed with a lot of people and we had

248
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some pictures taken, but nothing like it could be in

249
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the future or so. Anyway, I thought it turned out well.

250
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, as long as Ed is alive.

251
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He's ninety three now, you know, we really want to

252
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accommodate his schedule, so you know, hopefully if he's available,

253
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we'll keep it at the end of October and do

254
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,039
it again. Yeah. I'd like to see this to be

255
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,879
a regular thing.

256
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'll check with him sooner than later in

257
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the next probably week or so, and let him clear

258
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the decks. And the reason we had it now is

259
00:13:47,039 --> 00:13:49,200
because he was traveling. He's really doing a lot of

260
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traveling in his life now and seeing a lot of

261
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,120
places he didn't see before. But and as you notice,

262
00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:57,480
he's very cautious about COVID. He masks up, he takes

263
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care of himself. But at ninety four, he may be

264
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,799
the best look in ninety four, ninety three, ninety four

265
00:14:04,879 --> 00:14:07,759
year old I've ever seen. I've never seen anything like it.

266
00:14:08,159 --> 00:14:11,399
He is as quick as any of us. He's he'll

267
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,720
ally of me by ten years probably. But this guy

268
00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:19,200
is so fit, he's so nice, he's so kind, he's

269
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,240
so gracious everything. He even made a donation this year

270
00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:25,559
to the Blackjack Paul the Hall of Fame, which was

271
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,759
you know, we never asked him for anything. He's had

272
00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:30,600
a lifetime comfort He and all of his guests get

273
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:33,360
to comfort free forever. And he said, I've got a

274
00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:35,639
table full of nine. I said, your set, and he

275
00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:38,960
said I want to pay. He said okay. So he

276
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,639
gave us a lot of money. It was very nice

277
00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:42,080
of him. So that's awesome.

278
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, I guess while we're on that subject

279
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:55,200
of the charity aspect, we partnered with someone new this year.

280
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So we're partnering with the UCLA gam Link Studies program,

281
00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:04,679
which is a program with the purpose of examining gambling

282
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,600
behavior and its impact on body, brain and Mind and

283
00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:15,320
the person who came to represent the center was doctor

284
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:21,480
Timothy Fong. He's a professor of psychiatry there and yeah,

285
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he just you know, he got up and had to

286
00:15:23,799 --> 00:15:28,480
talk for a few minutes about the center and and

287
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what the money was going to be used for. And

288
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you know, I thought he was perfect. He really hit

289
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,600
it out of the park, just like the right amount

290
00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:40,519
of time, the right tone. He was energetic and funny.

291
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Anybody else have any thoughts?

292
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: Well, my first thought was standing next to you, and

293
00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:48,919
I saw him come up to the mic, and I said, please,

294
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,159
don't be another guy from academia because they're so boring,

295
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,399
and he just started quicking the one liner. So once

296
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,240
he like me and said he's done this before. I said,

297
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,559
yes he has, and he and I went in the

298
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,559
back and I started doing some other stuff because I'm

299
00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:04,279
afraid we're gonna have to get the hook fast because

300
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:06,519
some of these guys are very boring. He wasn't at all.

301
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,080
But he really has a deep understanding of what is

302
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,320
happening with the mechanic, when not the mechanics, this evolution

303
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,799
of gaming and how it's starting to impact all these

304
00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:23,240
disparate people out there and sports betting, and during the

305
00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:26,159
week all of these things happen with Chauncey Billups getting

306
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,320
arrested and this guy getting this and the sports kids

307
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,320
are getting it. And it's been a contention of mine

308
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,559
for a long long time that this thing is they

309
00:16:35,559 --> 00:16:40,200
have opened Pandora's box with this unlimited gambling online and

310
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,159
you can do it from the comfort of your home

311
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,080
and a bottle of vodka and snort and cocaine. Or

312
00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:49,279
being a teenager when all teenagers invented Martin Gale systems,

313
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,360
And it's starting to collapse underneath on the edges, and

314
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:57,480
we're seeing the biggest pod of problem gamblers are turning

315
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:01,039
out to be eighteen to twenty five year old white males,

316
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:04,599
and that's going to create what about ism? And we

317
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,559
see this you go back to all the way to

318
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,319
Nancy Reagan. She was totally against, absolutely against stem cell

319
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,119
technology until she found out they could help Alzheimer's. She said, well,

320
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,000
in that case, I'm all for that. And people do

321
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:20,319
this with all sorts of things. But as more and

322
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,079
more children and these are fraternity kids, is basically on

323
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:28,960
the campuses that are out playing, these are fairly well

324
00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:31,839
to do people's children that are starting to make these

325
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,000
horrible mistakes out there, and they're gambling dad's money. And

326
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:37,839
the laws are you can take your dad's credit card,

327
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,240
you can gamble with it. You can't get that money back.

328
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:42,640
In order to get that money back, you have to

329
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,559
file criminal charges against your child, otherwise it costs that family.

330
00:17:46,839 --> 00:17:48,920
So those kind of things are starting to happen. But

331
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,880
worse than that, we're seeing the dynamics of selling games.

332
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,400
And now the NC TWOA ruled the last week before

333
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,279
the mall that they could now college kids could now

334
00:17:58,319 --> 00:18:01,079
bet on pro sports. IF's going to happen to those

335
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:02,880
colleagues kids that are good enough to play in the

336
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,680
pros that once they get to the pros they can't

337
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,279
bet on those sports they've been betting on for the

338
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,039
last four years. They're going to say, never mind, it's

339
00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:12,640
not gonna happen. We're going to see some really really

340
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,119
colorful stuff happen. And you know what our government does,

341
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,200
they tend to overreact to everything. So it would be

342
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:20,599
nice if we were a bit pre empty even got

343
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,200
out in front of this a little bit. I'm not

344
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,960
sure how, but I think it's incumbent upon all of

345
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:30,480
us that we take care of the less fortunate gamblers

346
00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:33,200
out there, or we try to preempt some of this stuff.

347
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,039
They're still going to be there. But it's not just

348
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,720
a notion though. I think it's really important for the

349
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:45,400
long term health of the AP industry that all these

350
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,799
people don't collapse. It's really to our advantage that that

351
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:51,279
doesn't happen. I'm not sure how we do it though, So, Yeah,

352
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:54,200
it's a great it's a grand gesture. I'm not sure

353
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,000
if any of it works, Colin, what do you think?

354
00:18:56,799 --> 00:18:58,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought it was great.

355
00:18:58,079 --> 00:18:59,759
Speaker 3: And I think Pandora's box that's a good way of

356
00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:04,319
put just what's happened with adding gambling onto people's phones

357
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,720
from home or their dorm room or wherever. And the

358
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,240
more the more that people like doctor Pohn can understand

359
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,680
what's going on in people's brain chemistry and how to help,

360
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,319
you know, either just try to you know, kind of

361
00:19:20,319 --> 00:19:23,000
like with alcohol, try to just get rid of it

362
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:26,440
completely like they did, you know, back in the day,

363
00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:28,720
or you figure out how to help people, how to

364
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:32,359
regulate it, how to you know, not have it be

365
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,519
so detrimental to society. And I think he's doing good

366
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:36,200
work there, so I thought it was a great fit.

367
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,720
He was entertaining and I think that he's doing.

368
00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:41,279
Speaker 4: Really good work. So yeah, he was great.

369
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 2: Colin. You had him on your podcast, so I can

370
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,000
put a link to that podcast also in the show

371
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,319
notes people, Yeah, check that out.

372
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a great interview.

373
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so yeah, actually that was how I found him.

374
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,240
I heard that interview and I was like, oh, this

375
00:19:59,319 --> 00:20:03,240
might be a you know, someone you know for us

376
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,119
to partner with. And we had some discussions with him,

377
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,359
and yeah, it turned out he was a great fit.

378
00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:12,519
But so let's talk about the card counting competition.

379
00:20:13,319 --> 00:20:15,839
Speaker 1: Well, this year we opened it up and we changed

380
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,880
it a little bit. In order to inspire, if you will,

381
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,119
people to wear costumes. I gave everybody that was wearing

382
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,240
a costume a bonus in a card counting championship, and

383
00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:34,119
it was anywhere from zero to twelve cards over your opponent.

384
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,279
And that's a lot, but it's not that much. John

385
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,720
Chain counts about shoot, what did it break down to?

386
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,279
Four cards a second? Eight cards a second? It's a lot.

387
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,960
They're fast, These guys are really quick. They can count

388
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,640
down deck in eleven seconds. But if you've.

389
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 2: Got only the winner counted in eleven second.

390
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 1: Counted that.

391
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,079
Speaker 2: Last year only two people broke broke fifteen seconds, is

392
00:20:59,119 --> 00:20:59,519
that right?

393
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: Yes? And one was in the thirteenth. They practiced this

394
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:07,400
year and last year the old guard still dominated, and

395
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:10,480
this year the young people just kicked the crap out

396
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,240
of everybody except Darryl Purpose and he got lucky. He

397
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:18,000
got to the very finals and he's against what's the

398
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,200
kid's name, he's one of your guys. Call it yes,

399
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:25,319
Stephen Bridges, and he's good. And Stephen Bridges still had

400
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:29,640
his free card and the card said zero or two

401
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,359
or ten, and he took that one. He opened it

402
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,559
and he only got a two card spot. But he

403
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,920
was already leading in the time, and Darryl took off,

404
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:43,359
and he took off, and literally by tenths of a second,

405
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,079
it was stop stop, It was that quick, and Daryl

406
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,519
got him. And Darryl had a little trick up his

407
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,400
sleeve where his but you know, old people have tricks

408
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,359
up their sleeve. And he got to the finals because

409
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,519
he would The rule was you had to say stop.

410
00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:58,880
We didn't say you had to stop counting. So he

411
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,640
would say stop, and he would look at a few

412
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,839
more cards, and then they say what he'd say minus

413
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,039
two and it would be there. And one of the

414
00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:07,559
guys said, you can't keep looking at your cards after

415
00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:09,640
you say stuff, and he said that's not in the rules,

416
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,759
and it wasn't. So anyway, Daryl figured it out and

417
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,480
he won by a split second, so he was very happy.

418
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,160
And he brought his love of his life for the

419
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,200
first time and his daughter for the first time who'd

420
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,160
never been to the ball, and he had a pretty

421
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,319
good showing, so it was a good night for him.

422
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,559
But the card counting was really exciting this year. I

423
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:29,799
got much more exciting with the young kids in it,

424
00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:33,480
and it did what we wanted. We wanted to create

425
00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,680
that energy with the young guys and have them coming

426
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,680
in because the ball has been lacking the youthful energy

427
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:42,160
coming into it that we've really needed over the past

428
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,960
few years. And I think we saw we've made that

429
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,079
connection now and it's starting to come in. It's really important.

430
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just in the card counting, but a number

431
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,200
of guys who went through boot camps are a part

432
00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:02,240
of BJA. Last year to stand Podolac and anyway, a

433
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,400
number of the younger guys, most of them came through

434
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:11,519
BJA and the winner of the final table. It was

435
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,920
a b bg A a guy, right. This game is

436
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:16,440
like the Pokemon.

437
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, he never came to a boot camp, but he

438
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,920
started through black Check Apprenticeship.

439
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 4: And I was so proud of these guys.

440
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nichols was in the final for the speed counting

441
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,880
competition and Stephen Bridges and you know, these guys have

442
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,240
worked hard and a lot of them are out there,

443
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:33,640
you know, counting really fast.

444
00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pretty pretty cool to see.

445
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,839
Speaker 1: Well, it's so nice they get to perform in front

446
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,920
of their mentor too. That's really a big deal of people,

447
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,119
and it's a big deal for you. It just makes

448
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,680
everybody feel good. Yeah, so it was a good night

449
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,200
for you guys. I was really happy because this youth

450
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:53,119
movement has to stay sustain us into the future. As

451
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,319
we're looking and Monskin and I have talked about this.

452
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,480
I'm seventy eight. I don't know how long I can

453
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:02,880
keep doing this. It's hard, and how long he can

454
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,279
deep doing it. So we're going to have to develop

455
00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:08,799
some sort of Blackjack apprenticeship program for running the ball.

456
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,880
We got to get some youth into this thing, and

457
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,680
there are a bunch of youthful people that have a

458
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,279
lot of skills in their music and they're in entertainment.

459
00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:17,240
They do a lot of things, and we've got to

460
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,759
one of Collins guys was a former writer on Jeopardy,

461
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,359
and some very clever people out there that we can

462
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,319
start bringing into the fold kind of an apprentice program

463
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,880
to get the ball ready to sustain itself in the

464
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:30,640
decades to come.

465
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,519
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, happy, happy to help. Anyway, we can't

466
00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:36,400
be careful what you volunteer for.

467
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,079
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you I take advantage of them.

468
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:44,240
So yeah, we'll do that, all right.

469
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:48,759
Speaker 2: So Colin, you had mentioned that the changes in both

470
00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:50,960
the quiz and the final table. Do you want to

471
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,599
talk about uh that a little bit?

472
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I thought it was great.

473
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 3: You know, I was thinking about it that there there's

474
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,000
a fine line I think that you guys have to walk,

475
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:07,440
which is, if you make it too serious, it takes

476
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,160
the fun out of it. But if you make it

477
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,319
too silly, then you know, no one takes it seriously.

478
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,599
And it's felt like I think the again is not

479
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,680
to you know, blow smoke up. Anyone's asked, but I've

480
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,359
been going since I think two thousand and nine, maybe

481
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,160
twenty ten, and I feel like this was the most

482
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,839
fun of writing that line. You know, the costumes made

483
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,160
it a lot more fun than I was expecting, to

484
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,880
be honest. My favorite was the speed counting competition. I

485
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,160
watched every round of it, either competing in it, and

486
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,799
then Stephen Bridges knocked me out before the final four,

487
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,359
and I wish there.

488
00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: Was a way we could do that so that more

489
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,839
people could see, because we don't have cameras on that,

490
00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:54,960
and whereas on the final table and stuff, we do

491
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:58,119
have cameras on it and they're big widescreen TVs everybody

492
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,079
can see, but it's very hard to get near that table.

493
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,279
For the speed counting.

494
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:05,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was cool to have the final four everyone

495
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:08,160
could see. I mean, you know, I'm I got Tommy

496
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,880
hoileand next to me clocking it on his on his iPhone.

497
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:12,759
Speaker 4: You know, we're we.

498
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 3: Want to see how fast are these guys going, and

499
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:15,720
we could see it on the screen.

500
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 4: I mean, that was a lot of fun.

501
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:22,799
Speaker 3: But then the quiz, you know, it was very blackjack oriented,

502
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:26,079
which which definitely is my bias since since I'm a

503
00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:30,240
blackjack guy, uh above above any of the other games.

504
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,119
But that that was fun, and the people that made

505
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,440
the final table all had skills. Maybe not every skill,

506
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,279
but I mean, you know, some of these guys for

507
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,440
for the actual trade are practicing these things the same

508
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,559
week as the ball you know, they're they're working on

509
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:49,279
some of these advanced blackjack skills because they're out doing

510
00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:53,559
these same games. So that was just a lot of fun.

511
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,079
I thought the card steering thing was fascinating.

512
00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me describe that for our listeners. The card

513
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,880
steering this year was a there were only two people

514
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,119
left at the table, Eve and John Chang, and it

515
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,759
was a six deck game and they were going to

516
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:21,440
watch me cut. So I cut approximately fifty two cards,

517
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,000
and there is a joker at the back of the shoe,

518
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:30,440
so they know approximately fifty two cards in this joker

519
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:33,279
is kind of come out. They could spread from one

520
00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:38,599
to three hands and play any legal strategy they wanted,

521
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,799
like if they want to stand on three to two,

522
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:45,519
they could, and the object was to make the joker

523
00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:50,680
land on your opponent. Now there were actually two jokers,

524
00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:56,319
so because if the joker went to the dealer myself,

525
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,359
then the next card out would be going to the

526
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,279
person on and so we needed too so that's how

527
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:09,279
the card steering went. And it's funny because John thought

528
00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:14,880
that he was at a disadvantage being the second person

529
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,759
at third base, and I think that was actually a

530
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:24,279
big advantage on his part because if the joker lands

531
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:28,920
on the dealer, then he's got two chances to you know,

532
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:29,440
to win.

533
00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:35,759
Speaker 1: And that's not a specious skill either, because that being

534
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:39,480
able to move one big card into a dealer's whole

535
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:42,039
card or into your hand, depending on the value of

536
00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:46,119
that Ask Tommy, ask. There's people in that room and

537
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,839
including us at one point where when you can recognize

538
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,079
a card and you can cut to it, all these

539
00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:55,279
things occur on a table. You're making these strange plays

540
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,200
and spreading out and then going to one hand and

541
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,599
then standing on twelve and hoping it drops over here

542
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,599
because you want that dealer to get the band card

543
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,920
or you're trying to steer that big card to you,

544
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,000
So you've got to make some very strange plays and

545
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:09,240
the dealer's eyes just crossed and say, what was that.

546
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,759
I don't know, Oh yeah, I screw But it's a

547
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,400
it's a real skill that's necessary out there in the

548
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,079
in your whole scabbard full of all your weapons that

549
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:21,920
you have. Being able to do that is really important.

550
00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:24,319
I was surprised John Chang lost.

551
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he played He played that game a lot.

552
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:34,640
But the other thing is when when he got the joker,

553
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,000
he said he was off by four cards in his estimation,

554
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:45,200
and so if his estimation had been correct, then the

555
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,720
card would have gone to his opponent. But that is

556
00:29:49,759 --> 00:29:53,119
a big part of the skill is how well you

557
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:56,319
estimate the number of cards being cut. You don't have

558
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,119
to cut them yourself if you can estimate how how

559
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:02,640
many cards were cut by whoever did the cut it.

560
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:05,359
Speaker 1: And yeah, there are people at the ball that would

561
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,839
bet you even money. At one point, they could cut

562
00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:11,319
fifty two cards. Just reach out and come them, it's

563
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:13,799
fifty two yes or no, and they bet you good money.

564
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:16,640
And they made a living at this on the strip

565
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,119
for decades, just going out on Graveyard and the dealer

566
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,839
and shuffle. They'd see the back card and they would

567
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,359
cut here and then they would just steer that one

568
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,680
card in and then get up and go to the

569
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,200
next game. And it went on for decades in this town.

570
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,759
So it happens, and they were there at the party

571
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:32,480
and they were watching these kids. So it was good.

572
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,200
It was really nice that you got to sit by

573
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,359
a guy like Tommy Hyland. You know, Tommy doesn't look

574
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:40,480
as old as he is, does he. I mean Tommy

575
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,440
was out there in the eighties. I mean, Tommy's been

576
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,960
around forever, but he really looks good. Yeah.

577
00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and his costume was perfect for him.

578
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

579
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. We should tell people he was dressed as Santa Claus,

580
00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:58,359
which I wonder if that's the same Santa Claus outfit

581
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,359
that he got barred in Atlantic City on Christmas Day,

582
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,799
dressed as Santa Claus.

583
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 4: I'd like to think it is.

584
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did too. I Yeah.

585
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: By the way, we should mention the sequencing competition that

586
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:18,079
it was beat the Wizard and you you actually had

587
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:21,039
memorized the how many cards did it go before before

588
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:22,000
people were eliminated.

589
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: Well, first, let me describe the way we did it,

590
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:29,519
because you know, I think a combination of nerves and

591
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,039
people drinking and you know, being up in front of everybody.

592
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:37,839
For the last few years, people could not remember one

593
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,839
card in a sequence. And so this year we changed

594
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,839
it up. And the idea was we would look at

595
00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:47,599
the car all of I would spread a deck. We

596
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,640
would look at the cards for I didn't actually time it,

597
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,759
but it was between thirty seconds in a minute, and

598
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:57,519
then I would announce what I thought the card was,

599
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,839
and they had each person I had a card that

600
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:06,039
said true or false, whether they thought I was correct

601
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:10,720
or if I was wrong. And I realized pretty quickly

602
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,599
that if I just kept saying the real card, they

603
00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:17,119
were all just going to keep going true true, true.

604
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:20,519
So I did start mixing it up and throwing and

605
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,039
Darryl Daryl was on the final table and he asked

606
00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:26,319
me before at the beginning, before I spread the cards,

607
00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:29,960
He goes, are you going to try to get them correct?

608
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:33,480
And I said, well, we'll just have to see. I mean,

609
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,119
I'm not going to tell him right because anyway, so

610
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:40,480
I think we got about fifteen oh and they got

611
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:44,920
three strikes, so if they were wrong, they got a

612
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,440
strike a black chip, and they got three strikes before

613
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,519
they would be eliminated. And I think we got about

614
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:58,160
fifteen or sixteen cards in before we finally had someone

615
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:58,480
to live.

616
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,599
Speaker 1: I thought about that. Something to think of, Richard is

617
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,480
next year, spread the first twenty really wide so the

618
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,599
public can see them, so they can try to memorize that.

619
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought I was trying to do that. Actually, yeah,

620
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,440
because we do have a camera right over the table

621
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:21,079
that is focused on those cards. So yeah, I was

622
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,400
really hoping that people in the audience would be trying

623
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,319
to memorize.

624
00:33:26,359 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: In fact, Colin, you should have seen us rehearsing at

625
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,000
the house and Montchkak kept saying, well, they're all drunk.

626
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:34,960
I said, they're not all drunk, and he said, well,

627
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,480
they're all choking, And I said, is everybody choking? But

628
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:41,519
we couldn't figure it out. For the last five or

629
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:45,640
six years, they miss on the first question every time.

630
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,039
And these are the smartest guys we know. We don't

631
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:51,160
know what that dynamic is. But I said, we have

632
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,039
to change it. It's no fun to watch a game

633
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,160
where the guy just steps up and it's the squid game.

634
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:58,920
You kill him, it's over. So let's figure out a

635
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,079
way where they get extra line, like a video game

636
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,720
or something. And we came up with this that really worked. Well.

637
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:07,480
We're called it Beat the Wizard. Next year, will we'll

638
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,480
make that a little bit better, but it was it

639
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:11,440
was pretty good. I really liked it.

640
00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, of kind of black check apprenticeship people.

641
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:18,960
I think sequencing is probably the skill that the fewest

642
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,079
people have put time into because it's so hard to find.

643
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:24,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think that that's part of it.

644
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 3: Find some of the you know, some of these guys

645
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,679
that have made the final table once or even multiple times,

646
00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:34,760
it gets to that and they're like, oh great, you know,

647
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,119
this is just something I haven't put the work into.

648
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,199
It doesn't really correlate to card cutting at all. So

649
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,840
it's just have you spent time on this completely different skill,

650
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,679
and I think most BJA guys have not.

651
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: Right, Well, cutting, I mean or estimating cutting is not

652
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,320
applicable to card counting either, right, It's a separate skill,

653
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,719
and either they've worked on it or.

654
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: They have exactly.

655
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,559
Speaker 3: I think more people have probably worked on that than

656
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,599
then sequencing is, is my guess. At least you know yeah.

657
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely not as many of those, and they're

658
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000
not nearly as many hand shuffle there's a few, you know,

659
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:14,559
stations still shuffles all their games by hand. Yeah, a

660
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:17,719
lot of games, but it's stays. There's still bottom cards

661
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,719
there too, so there's there are ways, There are ways,

662
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,280
So that's right, And even.

663
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: Though those sequencing games are rare, if you do happen

664
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,639
to run across one, feel free to shoot me an email.

665
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,679
Speaker 1: No, if you run across one, feel free to shut up.

666
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,360
They last about a day. Now, Munchkin wouldn't say anything,

667
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,280
but boy, these things get burnt out fast.

668
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah so well that though, I mean, a sequencing game

669
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,400
doesn't get burned out as fast because, as Colin pointed out,

670
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,079
there just are not many people.

671
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: Who play it. So shooting a line yes, yeah, yeah, right, okay,

672
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,079
which else? What else? Will go?

673
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:56,159
Speaker 2: Uh?

674
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah?

675
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: What else? What am I?

676
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,679
Speaker 3: I want to I want to ask you, you two,

677
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,599
what it's like just seeing what the black check ball

678
00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:05,519
has become compared to what it started.

679
00:36:06,159 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 4: You know, Max, was it a barbecue the first No, My.

680
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: Wife cooked for everybody, and I had a giant basement

681
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:15,119
at the time, and it got to where we had

682
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:17,280
close to eighty people in the basement, and my kids

683
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,199
revolted at after three and made me get it catered,

684
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,679
and my wife said, thank you very much. And then

685
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:25,280
we happened to move. I had a too big a house.

686
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,880
My kids were both out of the nest, so I

687
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,360
moved to a place and we had a really great

688
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,320
clubhouse and made sure I did and gated place, and

689
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,480
so we started having the party here and it grew

690
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,480
and grew, but it got too big for that room too,

691
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:39,239
and you were part of that. I mean we were

692
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,199
packed in there and we could see it about one

693
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:44,760
to ten. And after that it got pretty pretty darn crowded.

694
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,039
And we said for the twenty fifth, let's do something spectacular.

695
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:50,159
And we had a lot of benefactors that put up

696
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:54,079
a lot of money and we started having this spectacular event,

697
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:56,599
and some people balked at the three hundred and fifty

698
00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:59,840
dollars price, and a lot of them don't understand. This year,

699
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,000
for example, we're probably closer to five hundred and forty

700
00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:07,079
dollars per person net cost on that party. And if

701
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:10,320
it weren't for the largess of our benefactors, we wouldn't

702
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,079
be able to have this thing because we'd be charging

703
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:14,559
you guys five point fifty to break even, and that

704
00:37:14,679 --> 00:37:17,760
people would revolt at that, I think, But it's what

705
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,079
things cost. Is if you have a nice wedding, a

706
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,280
nice wedding costs a lot of money. In this country.

707
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,639
They cost one hundred thousand dollars for the average middle

708
00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:29,239
class wedding these days, and we're in a venue that's

709
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,639
one of the greatest venues ever. I mean, call it

710
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,480
seen and it's a pretty spectacular place. So we have

711
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,679
to pay and that stuff doesn't come cheap. But I

712
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,760
think the level of exclusivity and the one up a year,

713
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,920
I'm really happy, I mean me from having start off

714
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,119
in my basement this thing to have evolved into this

715
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:51,360
giant thing. But it's really dawned on to me, dawned

716
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,119
on me that it ordered for us to have continuity,

717
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,360
we've got to have a succession plan.

718
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:57,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

719
00:37:57,599 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: You know.

720
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: The other thing is, you know, in the beginning, it

721
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,360
was almost like a frat party. You know, the contests

722
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:12,039
were you know, arm wrestling and you know, putting me boxing,

723
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:14,840
you know, I mean, it had nothing to do with

724
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,760
blackjack at all, you know, but you know, and I

725
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,239
think it was actually Blair Hall who came up with

726
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,000
the idea of forming the five O one C three

727
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:31,000
and turning it into a charitable event, and I think

728
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:34,320
that kind of made a lot of it more serious

729
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:39,039
and and it's really grown. I mean, we were at

730
00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:41,280
what one hundred and eighty five.

731
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: This year, Max, Well, we had one hundred and eighty

732
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,840
eight seats. We had too empty because some people brought

733
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,039
a person or two and then two people couldn't show

734
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,960
up because of the norm Wattenberger and one other person

735
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,280
couldn't come because.

736
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: Of somebody got sick.

737
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got one got overlaid. He got overlaid in

738
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,639
Dallas or something and had to go back home from

739
00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:04,920
a flight. But we had two no shows. But we

740
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,960
had two seats empty out of the one eighty eight,

741
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:11,800
so we had one eighty six, which is pretty darn good. Yeah,

742
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,280
we could probably handle another fourteen. We could handle a

743
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,159
couple hundred in that room. But the the tickets are

744
00:39:19,199 --> 00:39:22,199
going to get more deer than less in the future,

745
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,519
we believe. So there'll have to be some considerations where

746
00:39:25,519 --> 00:39:27,719
some people may get invited every other year. I'm not

747
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,519
sure who gets invited now. Of course Colin, now he's

748
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:31,800
in the Hall of Fame, he'll be coming at the

749
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,000
head of the class and have reserve seating and everything.

750
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:37,159
Speaker 4: So it sounds good.

751
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,159
Speaker 1: That was really nice, though. You really deserve to get this,

752
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,719
and everybody, all the seniors believe that too. You've done

753
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,639
a lot for the blackjack community.

754
00:39:46,159 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 4: It's thank you.

755
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,519
Speaker 1: It's really impressive what you've done. You've stayed the course,

756
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:52,280
because most people just quit. It's hard, as you know,

757
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:56,239
it's not easy making living doing that. Yeah, so yeah,

758
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:02,079
yeah it worked. What else, munch? What else we got?

759
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: I think? Uh, I think that's about it, unless anybody

760
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,400
else has any Uh, I'm just looking at some of

761
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:13,039
the questions we were talking about in the email thread,

762
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:18,039
but I think we've pretty much covered everything. What was

763
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:24,199
the any personal highlights this year? Obviously getting inducted in

764
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,719
the Hall of Fame, I guess was the highlight for you? Yeah?

765
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,320
How about your kid? Your your wife? How how did

766
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,920
she feel about the ball this year?

767
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: Uh?

768
00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, she loved it. Yeah, she had a blast. And

769
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,599
it really is.

770
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,519
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's fun seeing people where it's it's

771
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,119
the one time of year you see them, and then

772
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:51,159
there's enough going on that, you know, kind of constantly entertained.

773
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:54,119
I could have I wish it could have gone on

774
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:57,199
a couple hours longer, you know, talk to more people

775
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,480
before before we had to be done. But no, she

776
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:02,440
had she had a blast. She was very excited for

777
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,960
me to get inducted. My kids could not care less.

778
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,280
I keep telling them I'm a Hall of Famer and

779
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:08,159
they just don't care.

780
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, but I never will.

781
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 4: They never will. I got zero.

782
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: You look good. You look like a couple from the

783
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,039
outback with their leather hats and all the rest of it.

784
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:19,320
I thought Grace looked great.

785
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, that was fun.

786
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:24,039
Speaker 3: She's already sending me ideas for next year. If it's

787
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:26,400
a costume competition again, awesome.

788
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,079
Speaker 1: That's what we're looking for. Yeah, that's terrific. That is terrific. Well,

789
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:32,920
I mean this has to be to you what you've

790
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,880
done with the Apprentice kind of like what's happened with

791
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,159
the Ball. It was a it was a vague notion

792
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,639
in your mind at one time.

793
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: Right, yeah.

794
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now you've got a cottage industry of your own.

795
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,440
I know some guys are coming at you with the

796
00:41:44,559 --> 00:41:47,480
ap Insiders, but that's a different story. We're not worried.

797
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,199
Speaker 4: About them, so yeah, no, it just we're just uh,

798
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:50,639
you know.

799
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,639
Speaker 3: And and there is there's a lot of similarity that

800
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:55,840
to see it of all over the years, and it's cool.

801
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,159
I remember my first ball and walking in that room

802
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,360
and you know, meeting you Max and saying, hey, what's

803
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,480
the name of your guys blackjack team and saying, oh,

804
00:42:03,559 --> 00:42:05,440
we don't want to name we don't want.

805
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 4: Anyone to call us anything.

806
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: All the way now to to what the ball has

807
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,360
become and you know and same same, you know, I

808
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,440
remember our first Raggedy black Jack boot camp in a

809
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,360
comped hotel room at Caesar's Palace, and all the way

810
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,199
to you know, with that was maybe half a dozen people.

811
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,000
All the way to what we're doing now and much

812
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,760
more than just the boot camps is people having success

813
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,800
with it. It's it's cool seeing, you know, these these

814
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,440
events evolve and advantage play.

815
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 4: That was one thing.

816
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: You know, we had a brief conversation some of the

817
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,519
guys that put on the boot camps with me. We're

818
00:42:36,519 --> 00:42:39,800
talking about one of the takeaways is it doesn't seem

819
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,000
like advantage play is suffering.

820
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:42,159
Speaker 4: You know, casinos have.

821
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: All their technology and this, that and the other. But

822
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:49,400
there's plenty of people you know, in the trenches and

823
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,000
and you know, happy to spend money flying to Vegas

824
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:56,800
to celebrate the advantage play community because it's it's going strong.

825
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:01,159
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, and it's going strong. And virtually every

826
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:09,400
area you can imagine, from marketing to machines to stadium

827
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,880
seating to this to this, the pros are up thinking

828
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,320
while they're sleeping, and they're always coming up with the

829
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,079
next day. As we say in the business, another bad idea,

830
00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:21,159
but they're a great idea, you know, if you can

831
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:23,079
figure out a way to legally beat them. But you're right,

832
00:43:23,159 --> 00:43:27,440
that room is full of people that are extraordinary aps

833
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:32,239
in some fashion. And one of Roxy Roxboro, he buys

834
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,760
a full table and brings in his sports sharps, and

835
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,920
they want to be around the same kind of people.

836
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,800
And so that room has a lot of like interested people,

837
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,000
including Wall Street. Many people out of Wall Street come

838
00:43:43,039 --> 00:43:47,280
every year to pay homage to doctor Thorpe. But they've

839
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,519
also a lot of these people played in the past.

840
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,559
It's even the Koch brothers were blackjack players, and Paul

841
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:56,679
Yang was a blackjack player. It's astounding Blair knows many

842
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,639
many of these people that are very famous now in

843
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,199
any of the more blackjack players in the seventies and

844
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,239
eighties that are famous people today. But they all a

845
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,519
lot of them cut their chops playing blackjack and learned

846
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:09,800
a lot about discipline and what to do and that

847
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,960
sort of thing. So including very cool.

848
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know when you mentioned wishing it you had

849
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:18,119
a couple more hours. I mean I'm I was so

850
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:21,840
busy I didn't even eat, like I didn't want to,

851
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:25,079
And I wish I had had more time to be

852
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:28,079
able to go talk to a lot of people that

853
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:30,360
were there that I just didn't even get to talk to,

854
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,000
you know.

855
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, we're trying to find the right limit.

856
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:38,599
We forced three breaks this year, and we want to

857
00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:41,760
do that again because people are coming there to socialize.

858
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,880
One person there who's a Hall of Famer, his wife

859
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000
is a His girlfriend is a torch singer, and she's

860
00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:50,599
fairly successful now. She's in a lot of places. And

861
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,920
he said, well, the first two hours she'll be singing

862
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,280
for everybody, and her quartet will be up there playing.

863
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,320
And I said no. He said, what do you mean no?

864
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,360
I said, people come to this is a reunion. You

865
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,679
don't have bands at high school reunions for a reason.

866
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:05,079
People are there to talk. We're not going to have

867
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:08,519
a band, no music. He wasn't very happy about that

868
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:10,440
because he wanted her to get to performance, and we

869
00:45:11,079 --> 00:45:13,320
don't need that sort of thing. So it's a it's

870
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,880
a fine line. I think the party without any of

871
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,480
the extraneous stuff would probably still be fine if we

872
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:20,360
didn't do anything.

873
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just a party. Yeah, you're right, it would,

874
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:25,360
you know.

875
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: But I do like the fun stuff. So the ladies

876
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,199
get a chance to do something everybody else. So I

877
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,880
don't know. We're trying to find the right mix, but

878
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,559
I think we're getting better at it.

879
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 4: It felt the balance.

880
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: I miss having the the after party. You know. For

881
00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:43,840
a few years there, I was having an after party

882
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,599
and just like you Max, my wife was doing all

883
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:50,920
the cooking, and uh, you know, but it just it

884
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,320
it kind of got too big, too fast, yeah, you know.

885
00:45:55,679 --> 00:45:58,159
And and and I told my wife, look, we can

886
00:45:58,199 --> 00:46:01,119
have a caterer. You know, that's not the issue. But

887
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,639
I don't know, having a hundred people in your house

888
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,880
is like it's a lot.

889
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,639
Speaker 1: It's really a lot for a wife.

890
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: It's nothing for us, you right, We're going to go

891
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:13,840
out with.

892
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: Our friends and you get to clean up. No, it

893
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:18,679
doesn't work. There's a certain level where it just doesn't

894
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:20,480
work any work, And we hit it.

895
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:22,519
Speaker 3: So I was going to say, I I think you

896
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:27,000
did find the right balance of uh, you know, moving

897
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:30,639
the Calcutta to be not not taking up time during

898
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:33,760
the event, and some some of those tweaks. There were

899
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,119
enough events that it was. It was a lot of fun.

900
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:38,440
You know, I probably could have socialized more if I

901
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,280
hadn't watched every round of the speed counting competition off

902
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,039
to the side.

903
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,679
Speaker 4: But there there's it was.

904
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: It was good having having those breaks, but also a

905
00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:49,360
lot of entertaining activities going on.

906
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,119
Speaker 1: Good. All right, Well, expect I'm going to be calling

907
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:55,360
on you because you have to be very careful what

908
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,880
you volunteer for with me, as uh Mark th other people.

909
00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:03,320
I may take you up on a couple of things.

910
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,639
Speaker 3: Here is my wife going to be feeding everybody's pretty much.

911
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:11,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Washington and the house Grace is cooking.

912
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 4: It's very good.

913
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: You're gonna need a bigger kitchen. Yeah, just a cater

914
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,159
but that's okay. All right. Well, I thought it worked.

915
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,320
I thought it went great. I'm as pleased with this

916
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,400
one as any of them. I thought it was good.

917
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,199
It wore me out, It was a lot of fun.

918
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,920
Family got involved and they always do. And so just

919
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,880
things we have to think about in the future. How

920
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,960
this is going to have some continentity to it. It's

921
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,239
important that it doesn't die.

922
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,599
Speaker 2: So yeah, well think for me, I think this was

923
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:43,599
the best ball ever.

924
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought so. So all right, that's about it.

925
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,000
Colin will be in touch with you. Be careful when

926
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:53,960
you pick up the phone, okay

927
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,519
Speaker 2: All right, so Bob is not here, so I will

928
00:47:57,519 --> 00:47:59,599
tell people to go out and hit lots of Royal

929
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:01,599
flush everybody, good day,