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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. I am Dan Valley coming

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at you with my certified fantabulous, incredibly awesome continuing to

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power through this week's long sickness that I think Karmacle

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makes you think he did something in a previous life

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or this life that has caused me to have a

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December not to remember. Mister Grant Hughes, it's a mailbag episode.

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We're talking fallout from the or impressions of the NBA

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Cup new All Star game format. A lot of trade questions.

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Jimmy Butler to the Phoenix Suns, what do we think

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about that? Maybe Zach Lavine to the Denver Nuggets. But

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the first question we must get to, mister Hughes, how

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the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm hanging in. I'm not going to complain about being

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sick anymore, because, uh, you could just listen back to

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any of the last like three podcasts and you'll feel

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that you'll find the same information. I'm excited to do

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this mail bag. We have some really good questions here.

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But how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm spectacular, I'm healthy than you and my wife. Apparently

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there must be starting going around, so we we appreciate

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everyone thinks this is easy or that this is the

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only thing we do. I don't find you talking about

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being sick complaining. I appreciate you powering through to continue

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to provide content. I mean, we had a lot of

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good questions though. There are a couple, like real, real

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good figures. There's one of them that I still don't

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even know where I'm leaning on it. It was so

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thorough and in depth. It kind of broke my brain

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when I read it, and I was like, oh damn.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to know what that one is. There are

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a couple there. There's some real standouts here. I appreciate,

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we appreciate all of them, but I'm excited to get

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there's like five or six that I really like a lot.

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Speaker 1: This is a good reason to join our discord because

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they get priorities when it comes to us building out

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mail bags. So link to that's in the podcast and

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YouTube description. Why aren't you in there already? That's my question? Yeah,

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with that though, let's jump into this mail bag. First up,

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grant any closing thoughts on year two of the NBA Cup,

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which was won by Janness Attent to Goombo in the Bucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what time you think the parade is is that

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it's gonna what's the weather like in Milwaukee? I mean,

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so it's interesting. I was talking to someone yesterday about

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it and I was just going through the like, well,

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it's the reason it exists. Is this trying to drive

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interest in a period of the calendar where nobody or

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the league is concerned that fewer people pay attention, trying

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to get the stigma of the teams and players don't

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really care until after the All Star Break thing out

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of the way. And I was making the case like, no,

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it actually has I think driven interest and so like

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you know, goal achieved, mission accomplished, And they were like,

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is this the first year they were doing it? And

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so I was like, oh, okay, so maybe maybe I'm

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misreading the broader NBA fandom. So I so, having said that,

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I do think it's like it's been pretty successful, don't

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you think, Like I feel like I was. I wasn't

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you know, we watch more games than most people except

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you don't ever watch games at all. Thank your Sorry

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to almost paint with too broader brush, but I think,

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you know, certainly once we get into the knockout rounds,

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like I was very interested, and part of that had

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to do with I was confident that everybody was going

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to really take it seriously and give, like, you know

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that a little bit of extra competitive edge, and mostly

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my expectations were met. So I guess just from that perspective,

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I think it works. And then I'm not persuaded by

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the downsides really like, oh, it's hard to have this

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like weak stretch where most teams play once in like

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you know, eight days or something like that, or the

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travel is hard, Like I think those are all pretty

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like secondary concerns to Yeah, they're trying to drive interest

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into me. I think it's worked.

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Speaker 1: What do you think I think it's been. I don't

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know if it's worked, but I like it in the sense.

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So one of the biggest criticisms I've seen is that

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you can't force tradition and they need to make this

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Cup interesting as a standalone, and I totally get that,

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but like, you're going to create tradition by sticking with it.

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And there was the report from the Athletic that they're

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considering because Amazon Prime is now going to have the

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NBA Cup moving forward starting next year, about moving it

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till after the NFL season and I was like, well,

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you created this thing to drive interest during the NFL season,

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And I understand that Amazon has NFL games itself, but like,

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why would you give up on that after two years?

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And I do agree there might be some disconnect between.

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It feels like the people who've enjoyed the NBA Cup

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the most are the ones who enjoy watching regular season basketball. Actually,

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so I hate it because I don't watch games. But

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that your point about maybe it not reaching the broader audience,

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the more casual fan, which again is not a denigration.

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Maybe that's where it's missed the mark. But I think

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that's something that you can own. I'm not saying it

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will work, but I think that's something you can only build,

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giving it time and space to marinate and become a tradition,

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something that matters as this standalone event.

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Speaker 2: I think, too like the way to really make it

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stick or really make it appeal to the types of

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fans that maybe are so like I think you're exactly

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right that it makes a positive difference for people that

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were already watching early December games and were annoyed by

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how sort of perfunctory a lot of the efforts were

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in those games. But if you weren't watching those anyway, Like,

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I don't know that this is pulling you in, So

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I think that's probably maybe that's something to be considered.

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But I think the stuff you could do to really

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make the broadest possible audience interested are things you don't

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want to. Like, for example, have it actually affect playoff

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seating somehow, or have it like really matter in terms

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of like the actual championship race or the actual playoff race.

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And I just don't. I don't see the league doing that.

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I think that's just too far to go to drive

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interest because like you.

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Speaker 1: Don't contradictory too, because you want the NBA Cup to

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mean something on its own, and yet now you're tying

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it to the outcome or the pursuit of an NBA

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like the an NBA Finals victory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly so, And I think maybe you maybe what

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happens is you just sort of we've hit the cap

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on like how much importance you can like assigned to

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it if you're not gonna make it, you know, somehow

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linked to the other the actual playoff race and the

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the you know, the actual postseason. But like you sort

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of can't do both, right, It can't be this standalone

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thing that drives interest, and it can't be a thing

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that is tied to you know, who wins the title

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at the same time, I don't I don't know. I

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mean like it's it's I don't think it's ever gonna

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be like a fraction as important or interesting as you know,

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NBA basketball in May and June. So like maybe you'd

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just be satisfied with the fact that among some sub

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section of the audience, like it is actually like making

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people interested and giving them reasons to watch, and that's

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maybe enough. Like maybe there's there's really no world where

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it ever ends up being this hugely important thing. I

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don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, and the other thing too, I I don't know

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if this would impact the watchability. I'm over the neutral

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site games. The energy for those have just not been

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like from the crowd. I think you're missing an opportunity too.

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If you want to get fans engaged, give them an

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opportunity to maybe attend an extra home game if their

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team is the best, like you know, just go with

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the team with the better point differential in that case

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gets to host these games. I don't know how that

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impacts travel. I guess the whole idea is, Okay, these

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teams are now when you get to the semi finals,

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they're in this same spot for an extended period of time.

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But like you could, I think futs and fiddle with

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the schedule a little bit there. And I'd also when

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a lot of people propose this, and I think I'm

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on board with it, just because the way you're doing

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things with the groups and how you're creating the groups,

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I think the group stage games just need to happen

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all at the same time, rather than spacing them out.

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Because this is our job and we don't talk about

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it a lot on the podcast because like we're tackling

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macro topics for the most part, I can't. I have

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to be reminded constantly of the standings, who's in what point,

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differential stuff going on, and I think maybe mashing those

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games together would make that element of it easier to follow.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, because I've heard a couple different

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places suggestion that the groups should just be the divisions

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and that way, like maybe you get some rivalries going

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you make divisions matter somehow, which because they really don't anymore,

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maybe that and that maybe cuts down on travel too,

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which if teams are complaining about you address that part

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of it. I don't know, Like it does leave you open.

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Speaker 1: To like disparity in competition that for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no getting around that. Part of it is

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just there'll be a sot. I don't know what would

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it the Southeast or something. There'd be you know, change

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year to year. But like, I don't know, that's just

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that's how it used to be, right, and that's how

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it still is, and basically every other sport where it's

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like you actually do need to worry about winning your

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division games for purposes of playoff seating, like and that

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things are going things are going fine in the NFL

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as as far as I know, and division stuff still

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matters there. So I don't think this idea that it

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would be unfair to some teams as sooner persuasive.

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Speaker 1: The and the final thing for me too is I

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could probably do with a And I know the broadcast

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partners like are told to do this, but I don't

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need to hear for Mike Breen every five seconds about

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if you don't think they care about this game, you

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don't know NBA basketball or some version of it, AND's

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you don't need to force this to it means something

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to Jannis told the story about the two way player

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who's like gonna get a house in Iowa because they

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won the NBA, Like that stuff is cool and like

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the money will really matter to certain players. And Howard Becka,

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the ringer, put it this way, like it was it

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was kind of fun to see Damian Lillard win something

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sure type and like he said, it time to cheap.

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But it is so I just feel like this thing

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and that's probably a problem with a lot of new

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just new shit that every industry tries, is that if

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there's not this immediate like explosion or attachment to it,

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you just move on. And that's also probably the way

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that NBA coverage today is the way it is because

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you think of these sites that maybe they've invested in

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people that can do more nuanced stuff like x's and

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as breakdowns, but because the traffic or the rage engagement

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isn't there after however many months, it's well, we're just

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gonna have to move on. And that's like kind of

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life in the We were just talking about this before.

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We have ont in the the grow grow grow industry,

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and the NBA is trying to grow interest during this

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select period of time. I'm open to changes, but I

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do think the idea of moving it like towards the

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end or after the NFL season is stupid. I think

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that's why.

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Speaker 2: Would I would be more inclined to have it literally

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the game game one of the NBA season is a

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cup game, and just the first couple weeks of the

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season or that's when the Cup is and so you

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get your your your other champion. Although, like I do

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think it's very purposely situated where it is because people

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are interested. You know, over the first couple of weeks,

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they want to see the new players, see how the

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teams look.

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Speaker 1: So you're on these courts that are secretly awesome. By

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the way. I know some people hit the explosions of

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red are are bad, but like I love I love

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that stuff. Like I I like it. It's different you

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say all the.

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Speaker 2: Time, just try shit. I think I think there's no like, Hey, okay,

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so we know red doesn't work. We probably aren't gonna

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see red courts next year, but we tried it, so

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now we know for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well they's tried it for two years, so I feel

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like we might.

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Speaker 2: See red quar as well. Nobody's listening to us I

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guess on the red court front.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of just trying shit, Grant, the NBA is

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also changing its All Star game format, so we obviously

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need to know, Grant, what do you think of the

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new All Star game format? But first the question is

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what is the new All Star game format? For anyone

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who you know is not necessarily up to it? So

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that format, I'll read through the ballpoints. Twenty four NBA

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All Star selections will be divided evenly into three eight

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player teams. The fourth team as part of this mini

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tournament is the Rising Stars Champion. That's bizarre team GMS

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I guess will be a signed on a year by

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year basis. This year it's Barkley Shack, Kenny Smith, and

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Kandas Parker. I don't know why it's set up this way,

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but Charles Barkley, Shack and Kenny Smith to draft teams

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from the twenty four player pool, and then Candis just

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has to coach the Stars Champion, which maybe that just

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says that she's a better coach because that's the team

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that's going to be the disadvantage. Two teams will meet

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in one semi final. That'll be the first game with

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the two remaining teams meeting in another semi final that

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will be Game two. Game three will then consist of

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the winners from Game one and two in what is

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a championship game, and the winner of each game will

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be the first team that reaches or exceeds forty points.

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What are your initial impressions of this setup?

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Speaker 2: I think, first of all, anything's better than changing nothing,

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because I think we just the All Star Game as

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it was was just like we can't continue to do

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this going forward. So that's point one. I do think,

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like I think this is I don't know, I feel

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like a shill, but like this is a good setup.

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I think this is a really interesting idea. I do

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think if the goal is to get players to care

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more and try harder, which like it's a little concerning

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that this is the second bullet point we've had to

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talk about on the pod where it's like the goal

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is to get players to try hard. That's maybe there's

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a larger problem, which is the length of the season,

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which we're never gonna fix. But so like this is

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like a round robin like pickup slash pickup game setup,

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And I think the first thing is you really want

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to be in the first semi final game right because

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are these happening like back to back to back, like

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game one, game two, game three in a row, because

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you're gonna want from from having gassed out and cramped

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up in like rec league playoffs where you have to

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play two games right in a row. You really don't

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want to be in the second game and then play

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in the final right away, So you're gonna want that timeline.

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That aside, I really hope they make the losers stay

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and watch because that recreates like the pickup atmosphere where

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it's like their shame in getting knocked off the court

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and now you have to watch the winners play. I

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think that's a positive. I think the shorter games like

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get to forty first, that's like you're gonna have higher effort.

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Guys are gonna go harder. I think the inclusion of

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the rising stars is my absolute favorite part because I

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do think while they're gonna be obviously overmatched to like

295
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a crazy degree, I think they're gonna go so hard

296
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to try to prove themselves against guys you know the

297
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cliche of like ohead your poster on my wall or whatever,

298
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Like I played, I was used you in two K,

299
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Like that's a real thing than year old.

300
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Speaker 1: Jason Tatum dunking on forty year old Lebron James would

301
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be really cool. It'd be to make the rising stars

302
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challenge that I don't know if he's ready yet.

303
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Speaker 2: Uh Like right, that's a that's a cool dynamic. I

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think that gets dismissed as like, oh, they're gonna get smoked.

305
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I think probably so. But I think they're gonna try

306
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hard because they're gonna have like the prove it mentality

307
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that the other three teams just won't because what we're

308
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all stars were established whatever. I I mean, sure, I

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think there's gonna be unforeseen things that make turn this

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into a mess, but like I think, just as a

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starting point, I kind of love all of it. I

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think it's just like it's a great like pivot from

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away from something that everybody agreed sucked.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I think if you hashtag try shit. So

315
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I'm on board with it. And I like the idea

316
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Steph Know of Sporting News framed it this way, get

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to the ending faster, and first to forty does that,

318
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and it makes the entire game more compelling because I

319
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guess I'm not comparing it to a scarcity of product,

320
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but like when the only the final what eight to

321
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ten minutes of each All Star Game is where teams

322
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have really turned it up if they were still a

323
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differential worth trying to compete for. Like now you've kind

324
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of just sandwiched that into basically the entire thing, because

325
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you're not like it's forty points, like with three pointers

326
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in the equation, that's that's that's a quarter of basketball

327
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for some teams on certain nights. I like that element.

328
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I'm with you on I was looking to see, like,

329
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is there a schedule where Okay, so the Rising Stars

330
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happens on Friday, then do the first batch of semi finals?

331
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Is that now All Star Saturday Night and then Sunday

332
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night is just the final game? But you're right that

333
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you want that first game, gotta get the first to

334
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get the extra rest, regardless of what it is. And

335
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it probably wouldn't make sense to put it on All

336
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Star Saturday Night because then you just have this one

337
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forty point game. Yeah, as the All Star attraction on Sunday.

338
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Speaker 2: What do you think about the size of the teams?

339
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Are the n even the number of them? Do you

340
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think eight, because like you're gonna have three guys on

341
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the bench and that just feels weird to me. Do

342
00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:05,080
you think it would have made more sense to have

343
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more teams and maybe even shorter games, you know, and

344
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smaller rosters.

345
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Speaker 1: Free Like why couldn't have been fourteen? The rising Stars

346
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:16,240
element is really cool? But wouldn't six teams of four? Just?

347
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I mean, four teams of six just made more sense.

348
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And it's one It's a quarter of basketball, yeah, you

349
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know what I mean, Like we're first of forty, so

350
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why not just have the one sub or maybe just

351
00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:29,159
I guess, expand the player pool to seven, like to

352
00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:31,440
what then make it? If you want four teams of seven,

353
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so expand it to twenty eight players or just insert

354
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like you can select from the Rising Stars winning team

355
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,240
like during the draft. I don't know. And by the way,

356
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,360
I hope they won't do this, but they'll televise the draft.

357
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,720
I want them to televise the draft, like like with

358
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,679
the players there, like that could be a part of

359
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,559
All Stars Saturday Friday Night like that the kickoff of

360
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,279
it is that might add the compelling element to but

361
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,559
that's probably asking too much.

362
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: It would be cool if you didn't know who you

363
00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:01,559
were gonna play with until like two minutes before the game,

364
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:02,159
So they just.

365
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 1: Do it on Sunday.

366
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that would that would be

367
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,799
kind of fun, although like they sort of did that, right,

368
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:10,319
have they ever? I know they've had like players pick

369
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,960
teams essentially for a while, but like, did they ever

370
00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:17,720
do it where you were picking, like I'll take uh whoever,

371
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,839
like any walks over to your team like you would?

372
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,799
You know, Like I don't think they've ever done that,

373
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:23,440
And maybe that's just because they don't want like the

374
00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,519
last pick guy to feel shitty about it. But who cares,

375
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:27,640
You're an all star, deal with it.

376
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm for this. I'm gonna be very interested

377
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,160
to see how it unfolds and the whole just playing

378
00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:37,559
I guess two games in the in the city. It's

379
00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:39,799
but it's like to eighty points, so it's really not

380
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,119
I just and I will be interested. I didn't give

381
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,960
this a thought till you said it. So you have

382
00:17:44,079 --> 00:17:46,200
these eight player teams and it's just like, how often

383
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,400
are you subbing people right into a game that just

384
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:49,440
ends at forty?

385
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:51,759
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who's in charge of subs for Kenny Smith? Like

386
00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,720
who's keeping him abreast, like who needs to get in?

387
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:57,119
You'll probably just have like the youngest All Star on

388
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,680
each team or the couple youngest just not play, I

389
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,039
would imagine. I don't know, We'll see, but.

390
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see, like how they decide the gms,

391
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,599
Like you're just is it always going to be inside

392
00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:08,960
the NBA, which we know will be a part of

393
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,160
ESPN while being produced by WarnerMedia moving forward, or they

394
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,160
change it up, like I really don't want to see

395
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,400
Steve stephen a Smith coach a team that would be

396
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:20,559
I mean maybe some people would really appreciate that, but

397
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,519
there's a lot of different things that you can now

398
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:24,759
do for this. But I'm also wondering how many years

399
00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:27,920
did they give the elam ending two? Yeah?

400
00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:30,799
Speaker 2: Was it? I guess yeah, I have to confess I

401
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:32,799
haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the last

402
00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:33,759
several All Star Games.

403
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:35,880
Speaker 1: So now that's our the fact that because we don't

404
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,160
have to go there, that's our break.

405
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly now. And look, I guess maybe the

406
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,519
last point to make is like I am interested in

407
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:46,480
the All Star Game this year, Like I don't know

408
00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:48,279
when the last time I could sincerely say.

409
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,599
Speaker 1: That, right, I've always had it on the past like

410
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,640
half decade or so, it has been like background noise

411
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,519
for me, And this year I'll probably be like locked

412
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:59,880
in to it. We'll have an emergency podcast when eaves

413
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,359
Me wins MVP coming out of the Rising Stars game.

414
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:04,559
Speaker 2: You heard it here.

415
00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:09,319
Speaker 1: First, let's dive into the first actual malbag question of

416
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,559
the day, though, Grants, do you like Jimmy Butler on

417
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,880
the Suns if they make it happen? That is from

418
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:17,400
Philip Lindablum.

419
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:21,039
Speaker 2: I like it better than Bradley Beal on the Suns

420
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,839
if I mean, that's the basically the only way it

421
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,839
would happen, right Like, that's just that he's got a

422
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,119
way of the no trade he's got to change his

423
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,000
opinion on because there was a real chance for Beal

424
00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:35,720
to go to Miami, right like when he was traded

425
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:38,960
from the Wizards, I think, and he just basically I

426
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,680
would prefer Phoenix. So you've got some hurdles to get through, obviously,

427
00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:46,119
But if it happens, yeah, I think Butler's just objectively

428
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,680
a better player than Bal. The only thing you'd point

429
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,920
to is three point shooting. For as far as like

430
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,920
an advantage that Beal has both similarly like come with

431
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:03,559
availability concerns. Butler obviously the farm more proven defender, playmaker, playoff, performer,

432
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:06,160
all that stuff. So like, I guess you're still dealing

433
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,839
with questions of like, is Jimmy Butler the type of

434
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,359
player the Suns need most? But I think you're like

435
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,640
just unequivocally yes.

436
00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:19,039
Speaker 1: If you I understand he's older and the trade will

437
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,759
Phillip is right, Like he would have to be Beal

438
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,720
and it would basically be I think it's like ble

439
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:29,880
plus minimum salary X. So I mean Alec Burks excuse me,

440
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,519
so you'd have to send an extra player to Phoenix

441
00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:33,440
in this. So if you said Alec Burks via the

442
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,359
minimum exception, I believe it works. So Butler and Burks

443
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,160
for Bradley Beal. But then I'm assuming Phoenix is going

444
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,200
to include its twenty twenty thirty one pick as part

445
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,319
of this, And I think if you put Beal well first,

446
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:51,480
I want to ask you this. If Beal was going

447
00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:55,160
to waive his no trade clause and he forced his

448
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,839
way to Phoenix but Miami was at one point on

449
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,359
his short list, do you think that might do you

450
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,799
do you think that people most people have just kind

451
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:06,400
of written this off, And to me, it feels like

452
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:11,680
there's an opportunity for it to be more genuine, like

453
00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:15,559
an actual legitimate trade scenario than people have kind of

454
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:17,759
acknowledged so far. Because yes, and there's also to make

455
00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:19,480
it easier, you can involve third teams to try and

456
00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:22,440
like kind of expand salaries, and there's no aggregation for

457
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,200
Phoenix's part, but like if you need.

458
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,079
Speaker 2: Detroit sitting over there with plenty of room and willing

459
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,759
to sell, so.

460
00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: Like, I actually think it's possible because I believe that

461
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:35,759
Beale could probably talk himself into Miami might be a

462
00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:38,160
cooler place for him to live than Phoenix, and you

463
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,039
still have Bam and Tyler Hero there. Theoretically, maybe the

464
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,319
Miami's going as part of a teardown, So could you

465
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,319
sell yourself and you're in the east, so you might

466
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,000
wind up as the same seat as Phoenix will wind

467
00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:49,440
up in the West anyway come playoff time, for all

468
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,759
you know, i'd be cures. I think I really think

469
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:56,000
there's more of a legitimate chance that it happens. So

470
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,559
I wanted kind of your thoughts on that before we

471
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:00,079
get into you know doesn't make sense for the Suns.

472
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,759
Speaker 2: Unlike just the general likelihood of it happening. Yeah, Like yeah,

473
00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:05,680
I think it's fairly plausible. I mean, like they're just

474
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,559
if you're trading Butler, which I don't know. I still

475
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,960
I still am skeptical other than the Warriors as like a, yeah,

476
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,240
I guess I could see that, but like that, Keith

477
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:20,559
Smith laid it out like, man, it's fucking hard to

478
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,680
do this, like for for almost anybody, and it's not.

479
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,799
And that's including the teams that are sort of rumored

480
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:31,519
that Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, and the Warriors. Like Dallas has

481
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:34,519
to trade a huge chunk of its roster, Houston has

482
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:36,599
basically said we don't want to make a trade like this.

483
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,400
The Warriors, I think you could definitely get it done.

484
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:43,039
I just don't know if that's that's the most likely

485
00:22:43,079 --> 00:22:46,440
of the four teams that are out there, So like, yeah,

486
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,960
I think it, I think it could happen. I think

487
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:53,519
Phoenix is desperate. I think if you're this, if you're

488
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:56,720
the Heat, I don't know that you really like want beal,

489
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,960
but you want something as opposed to having to like

490
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,519
lose Butler for nothing if he opts out or try

491
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:06,680
to go to sign and trade route or whatever. So yeah,

492
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,200
it's it's definitely, it's definitely plausible. I don't know, like

493
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:12,799
if is it more likely than not? No, probably not.

494
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:15,279
I'd say it's it's unlikely to happen, but it's not

495
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,279
like something I would dismiss as like impossible.

496
00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: I think for the Heat specifically, it's easier to justify

497
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,079
for Phoenix, But if you're the Heat, the justification would be, well,

498
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,599
what is Jimmy Butler's value? So if the Warriors aren't

499
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:31,240
gonna give us more because they have more picks and

500
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:34,559
young players in flexibility to play around with, what is

501
00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:36,640
the team that's going to give you multiple first or

502
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,759
multiple prospects. Jimmy has said he's going to opt out,

503
00:23:39,799 --> 00:23:42,640
which in theory I think teams are if he said

504
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:43,640
he was going to opt in. I don't know how

505
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,799
much that hurts his trade value either, but teams are

506
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,319
if the possibility of him leaving is out there, that

507
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,920
diminishes his value. And then also as Miami, and this

508
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,799
might be the bigger selling point is two of your

509
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,200
next three draft picks are gone and one of them

510
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,880
is lottery protected until Kingdom come, but we've never seen

511
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,200
the just like rebuild up during the pat Riley era really,

512
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:07,720
and so beal in theory if he's healthy, has the

513
00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:09,759
cachet to say, hey, we're still trying to kind of

514
00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:14,319
be competitive. Yeah, So that that's the justification from their perspective,

515
00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:17,680
because otherwise I'd rather ship him to Golden State or

516
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:20,200
just like even would I guess it gets tough because

517
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,839
what are the teams aside from Golden State that would

518
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:27,039
give up let's say, more value and like with Jimmy

519
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:28,559
headed towards free because we can't even say, well, the

520
00:24:28,599 --> 00:24:31,319
Pacers should take a flyer just as an example. They're

521
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:33,240
not going to be a team that does that. Forget

522
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:36,000
about their salary structure with Halle and Siakam, they're not

523
00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:38,799
gonna do that. When Butler is saying he's going to

524
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:40,920
opt out, like, that's just not a risk they're gonna take.

525
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,559
Speaker 2: Right, If I guess the way you're framing it, if

526
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,880
if you're the heat, I mean, if you're yeah, if

527
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,039
you're the heat you're getting, you're getting Phoenix's twenty thirty one,

528
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,880
is that is that.

529
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,559
Speaker 1: Part of your like that that's basically the Yeah, I'm

530
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:55,359
looking down as the bones of the package. Just Beal

531
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,599
in twenty thirty one for the.

532
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: Pick is like, okay, that's I mean, that might be

533
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,839
a huge valuable pick. Probably probably will be a hugely

534
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,240
valuable pick. Pat Riley's about to be eighty. I don't

535
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,599
know how much he cares about. But like, if I

536
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,039
keep coming back to like, I don't think Bal He's

537
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:17,400
getting a pick attached to him. Bill, I don't think

538
00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:20,680
is a positive trade asset, like there is not viewed

539
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,839
that way by anybody. So if I'm Miami, I would

540
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,079
much rather have Wiggins coming a pick or two, or

541
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,359
even just those two guys than Beal and a distant first,

542
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,039
because it's just like Bill is someone that you might

543
00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:37,359
need to pay to get off of, And I don't

544
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,240
know that he's necessarily good enough to be like to

545
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,079
drive winning more effectively in the short term than like

546
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,480
just Andrew Wiggins full stop. Like I know, I just

547
00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:47,880
I don't know if that's the case, especially if you

548
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,759
consider like Andrew Wiggins and whatever, the differences between his salary,

549
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,680
which is like twenty seven and Beal's. So that's why

550
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,559
Phoenix feels unlikely certainly compared to Golden State but I

551
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:02,279
think if you can't, if Golden State's just like now,

552
00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,720
we're not gonna do anything, then getting that first is

553
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:08,799
I mean, that's that's if the alternative is losing Butler

554
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:11,640
for nothing, then yeah, you probably do that. But it's

555
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,759
not like a It's a long way from a no brainer.

556
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: It feels like a last resort for the heat is

557
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,519
what it was. Because but also it feels like a

558
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:24,480
plausible last resort that rereach, because what is the I'm

559
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:26,279
just trying to think of, like, what team if we

560
00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:29,519
assume that Houston is intent on waiting out a consolidation move,

561
00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:31,359
which I think is smart for them at this point,

562
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:35,440
what's the other team aside from Golden State that you know,

563
00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:39,119
under the circumstances Jimmy's age contract situation is going to

564
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,240
come in and you know they're gonna have a better offer.

565
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:45,319
And I don't, Like I thought about Atlanta a little

566
00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:47,799
bit might be interesting, but then you got to offer

567
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:48,240
the reward.

568
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: You just have to come up with somebody. You can't

569
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,400
because it's not coming from Dallas or or or you

570
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:55,720
already said Houston, So like.

571
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: Dallison needs to basically give up Kyrie Irving or their

572
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,200
entire team right.

573
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: Just like an that's just not well and Keith laid

574
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,720
out like you almost I think it's doable, but like

575
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,519
you have to fill out like three more roster spots

576
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,119
with like three hundred thousand dollars to spend.

577
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,839
Speaker 1: And also a team like Memphis could make a lot

578
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,200
of sense. But it's also how many players are they

579
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,519
trading to get there, and those types of trades are

580
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:20,319
really difficult to pull off in the middle of the

581
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,640
season because they don't have when you look at their

582
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,920
like big time salary anchors. You're not moving any one Jamrant,

583
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:30,160
Desmond Baine even though he's having a rough go right now,

584
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,680
and Jared j You're not moving any one of those

585
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,400
guys for Jimmy Butler. Yeah, you wouldn't move Desmond Bane

586
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,119
for Jimmy Butler.

587
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: Correct. Uh No, I don't think so. I think just

588
00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:42,960
the age and the contractor for lack of security, you

589
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,279
just you might be renting Jimmy. I'm not renting Jimmy

590
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,000
Butler for Desmond Baane. Like, that's not that's not in

591
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:50,359
the cards for me, unless I mean, if you're like

592
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,640
this makes you the unequivocal favorite to win the title,

593
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,039
then I think you probably do almost anything, but like,

594
00:27:56,559 --> 00:27:58,039
I don't know that that's the case.

595
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: Now, So from Phoenix is per effective. Though, Do you

596
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:03,319
like Jimmy because that was the question. We apologize for

597
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,480
taking so long to get here, Philip, Do you like

598
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,799
Jimmy Butler's forget about the Beal of it all by saying, well,

599
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,039
he makes more sense than Beale. You aren't giving up

600
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:14,160
your last best trade ship in this deal. Does Jimmy

601
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,200
Butler make enough sense next to Kevin Durant, Devin Booker

602
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,480
and what's already in place? Then, knowing, by the way,

603
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:23,519
because you're giving up your first round pick here, maybe

604
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:25,319
you get lucky on the buy out market or figure

605
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,759
something else out with a Grace and Allen trade or

606
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,400
a Royce O'Neal trade. You've now decided, okay, like we're

607
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,559
not upgrading the center position in a meaningful way.

608
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard for me to talk about it without

609
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,480
just comparing him to Beial because I would say, well,

610
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:42,839
he's just a better playmaker. He's a smarter offensive player,

611
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,720
he's a much more versatile defender. So just like you're

612
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:49,440
adding all these pluses, he's a very different player type.

613
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,319
I think you could if you're concerned about Devin Booker's

614
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:54,559
on ball playmaking, he's too much like we need to

615
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:57,519
get him back to previous roles. Like Butler can be

616
00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:00,519
totally fine as essentially an offensive hub. He's done that

617
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,559
for title teams more or finals teams more or less.

618
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,799
Speaker 1: Also, just the rim pressure for this team where they're

619
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:08,839
probably I'm not even gonna yeah, they're dead last in

620
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,079
rim frequency, just gonna put I didn't even need to

621
00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:11,799
look at that before.

622
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: I just told you he ticks a lot more boxes.

623
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,599
And like you know, Durant and Booker and Bill, this

624
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,920
is just reitering. What you're saying is like they kind

625
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,640
of like the same sorts of shots and and and

626
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:27,160
Butler's you know, Butler's no stranger to like the DeRozan

627
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,359
game of like mid rangey stuff where he just goes

628
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,519
in his bag, but like he's looking to draw fouls

629
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:33,680
a little more often. He's in the rim pressure. As

630
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,319
you said, I think he's he's different enough offensively that

631
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,279
it might really put Durant and Booker back into roles

632
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:41,799
that they're just better at. But Durant's been great, but

633
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,720
like Booker specifically, I feel like has not looked his

634
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:46,960
best this season, and I do you.

635
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:51,079
Speaker 1: Do you worry about like maybe not changing because Phoenix

636
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:54,519
has changed his shot profile overall, specifically looking at the

637
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:56,640
share of their attempts coming from three, Like thirty five

638
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,839
percent of their looks last year came from deep that

639
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,039
was nineteenth. That's a before forty two point six percent

640
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:03,319
this year, which is sixed. And so I think Booker

641
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,319
has actually been pretty instrumental. He's at it like eight

642
00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:08,680
attempts per game almost. I think their shot profile now

643
00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:10,480
because I think you can make the case, well, don't

644
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:14,519
we want to more materially like skew our shot profile differently,

645
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:16,359
if we're gonna give up this twenty thirty one pick,

646
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,079
and it's you might be just because Okay, you're losing

647
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,039
three point volume because Jimmy just doesn't take a ton

648
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:23,799
of them, but now you're gaining rim pressure like in

649
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:25,799
addition to it. So it's I don't think that it would.

650
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,279
I don't. I wouldn't find it as redundant as I've

651
00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:30,200
seen some people point out. And I also think the

652
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,799
difference of forget even about the playmaking, just defensively, the

653
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,480
way that Kevin Durant has been playing this year defensively,

654
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:39,759
and then if you add Jimmy Butler into that, who

655
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:43,200
streamlines life for everybody, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, whoever else

656
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,960
is going to be on the court with them, that

657
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,519
becomes a real massive deal, I would argue, maybe even

658
00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:52,000
more so in the playoffs than the regular season. My

659
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:55,839
one concern though, would be do you think that Jimmy

660
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,240
Butler is good enough off the because I do think

661
00:30:58,279 --> 00:31:01,920
Bradley Beal is probably easier to fit in as an

662
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,839
off ball weapon. And maybe I'm kind of under selling

663
00:31:03,839 --> 00:31:06,400
like the movement we see from Jimmy under coach Bow,

664
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,920
but do you trust that with this roster specifically, they

665
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,240
would be able to generate enough like or it would

666
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,359
make that Jimmy Butler would be impactful enough when the

667
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:17,880
ball is not always going to be in his hands.

668
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,119
Speaker 2: I think so he would just do it differently. It

669
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,799
would you know, he'd get deep seals, or he probably

670
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,839
a better cutter than Beale, like I think I think

671
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,920
he just he would be He just has broader uses.

672
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,000
And it's not like you're not between Booker and Durant.

673
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:34,079
You're not exactly hurting for guys that are going to

674
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,880
stretch the defense, like flying off screens or whatever. So

675
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,920
like that, it just it's less of a duplicative skill

676
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,960
set than you have with Beale, and so like I think,

677
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,640
if anything, like Butler might be better operating in the

678
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,759
space created by those other two superstars at like finding

679
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,960
pockets to score off the ball closer to the basket

680
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:54,960
than Beal would.

681
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: Like, especially the catch and go game. He's that's definitely

682
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,720
something he's gonna be better at.

683
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,279
Speaker 2: He's better, right, Like, he's just a better player in

684
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:03,279
almost every facet.

685
00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:05,559
Speaker 1: So and you're up in your timeline. How old is

686
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:09,960
Beal now? Is he thirty three? He's thirty one, So

687
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,720
you're moving your timeline up quite a bit. But I

688
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,759
think the upgrade is substantial enough. I would just be

689
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:17,359
you're always gonna feel this way, but it just makes

690
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,960
you think even more about Phoenix's windowed what this team

691
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:21,359
is eventually going to look like?

692
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean they're so as somebody was. I

693
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,359
think David Aldridge said there and like win yesterday mode,

694
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,680
and so like I don't care the Butler's thirty five,

695
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:31,799
Like you're just you just need you need the next

696
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:32,720
six months.

697
00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: Now, let's say though the alternative is that you can

698
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720
acquire you keep Beal, you give up this pick, and

699
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,039
maybe you get off Nurkic's deal, but you're acquiring a

700
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,440
role player wing in another center. Which path do you

701
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:47,480
prefer to that? Is it give up deal and that pick,

702
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:51,119
get Jimmy Butler or give up that pick and let's

703
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,680
say let's use the Nrkic salary and get a center

704
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:56,359
and a cheap wing in return, or is it you know,

705
00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:59,000
maybe let's even say it's separate deals because like you

706
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:01,680
could give up that first round pick whatever other salary.

707
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,119
That's gonna make it like separate trades because they can't

708
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,160
aggregate and you're going to get a rotation wing and

709
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,599
a rotation big. Do you prefer that route or the

710
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:13,400
let's continue to kind of it's not a consolidation trade necessarily,

711
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,400
but it also kind of is.

712
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: I think I think it's fair to acknowledge that, like

713
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,640
Phoenix needs the things you're talking about, like it's got

714
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,319
more than one issue, and like and that broadly speaking,

715
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:27,839
its issue is not a lack of like scoring stars,

716
00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:32,240
but I think just the net gain of Butler outweighs

717
00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:35,039
anything else you could get with those assets. So like

718
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,279
you'd still have a lot of the same problems or

719
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,440
all of them that you do with the current roster

720
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:43,920
and Nurkic being a piece of it. Like, I just

721
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880
would rather have those problems on the roster and Jimmy

722
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,759
Butler than try to address them and not have Jimmy Butler.

723
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you. I'd probably want to see

724
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,640
the names of just like, Okay, well, what big and

725
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:57,519
rotation wing are we sort of talking about, but without knowing,

726
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,319
like I don't know what bigsally a rotation wing you

727
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:04,200
can name that would make me not pick the Jimmy Butler.

728
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd have to be pretty impressive, I think, Franklin.

729
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: I'm even trying to think just let's say it's a

730
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,480
healthy Isaiah Stewart and then like, who's sort of a

731
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:15,000
cheap wing. Let's just say they could finagle it where

732
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,760
it's Dorian Phinney Smith and Isaiah Stewart. They could make

733
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,480
the math work in separate deals. But would you prefer

734
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:22,840
that or do you just prefer getting Jimmy Butler?

735
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's Butler. And then another

736
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,840
factor is, like you what if Kevin Durant misses time,

737
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:30,800
like do Isaiah Stewart and Dorian.

738
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: Phine misses time Drant they win like nine percent of

739
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:34,440
their games.

740
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you have Jimmy Butler, I bet it's

741
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,239
at least ten percent. I think they like that. That

742
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,000
insulates you from a key thing that you know is

743
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,599
like very much in the cards, which is Durant missing

744
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,320
a first round series or whatever. Like if you have

745
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,760
Dorian Phinney Smith and Isaiah Stewart and no Durant, like

746
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,719
those two guys aren't winning you a playoff series on

747
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,599
their own, Jimmy Butler might still pull that off and

748
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,800
buy you, buy you time for Durant to get back.

749
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: And you're also about the age stuff. Bradley Beal is

750
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,760
just as big as a check for health questions.

751
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,679
Speaker 2: If you could say, give you the next two years

752
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,000
of Butler or Bale, I think I probably still take Butler.

753
00:35:11,159 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's not even a question, even like

754
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,840
he started off the season not so hot and he's

755
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,960
definitely been a lot better since I I would do

756
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,639
it if I'm Phoenix, I don't. I think it's more

757
00:35:21,679 --> 00:35:24,599
plausible that because I think a lot of people in

758
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:27,400
like our circle just kind of be like, oh, at like, ah,

759
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,719
how funny like, but it's not happening. I really do

760
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,559
think it's probably just because Jimmy has some type of

761
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,679
leverage here, and I don't think his trademarket in theory's

762
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,880
gonna be as robust to where Miami can sit there

763
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,440
and say we don't want this Phoenix twenty three. If

764
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,519
Beal's willing to wave his no trade clause, I don't

765
00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:45,119
think it's gonna be as easy for Miami to say, well,

766
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:47,599
we can do better than Phoenix's twenty thirty one pick

767
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:50,480
and a fringe star who's on a bad contract for

768
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:51,320
the next couple of years.

769
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: Miami's not quite in this position, but it's like it's

770
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:57,039
close to would you like something or nothing, and they'll

771
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:57,960
just pick something.

772
00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: I think I will I will advocate. There are other

773
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,920
teams that I would like to see, like I would

774
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,519
like in Atlanta at this point with the way their

775
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:06,639
defense has been, like, let's just can you get him

776
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,320
without giving up Resa che j Allen Johnson and Dyson Daniels, like,

777
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,679
figure out a way to make that. You probably look

778
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,320
a lot smaller after that, but that team would be

779
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:13,800
fun as hell.

780
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be I mean, he makes Butler would make

781
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,079
he doesn't come with all the same like I don't know,

782
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:21,159
he doesn't space the floor, so how scalable is he?

783
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,960
Like he's just one of the rare players that will

784
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,519
just figure out how to make your team better.

785
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,519
Speaker 1: Even me asking that question before to you about whether

786
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:31,039
you're worried more about like under cells, just like how

787
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:33,480
smart and useful he is as a player, even though

788
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,800
he's not a higher volume three point shooter. But and

789
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,639
then the playoffs roll around and he just shoots fifty

790
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,199
percent from three too. Sure you take that into the

791
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,360
equation as well. You want to read our next question, grant.

792
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:47,079
Speaker 2: How many players should the Bulls trade? If they don't?

793
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,639
Speaker 1: Why that's a really so the players that should be

794
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,719
non negotiable to trade, And I think at this point,

795
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,519
I'm as long as you don't have to include anything.

796
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:01,679
I know they've been good, but I know you don't.

797
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,719
If you don't have to include anything to get them

798
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,320
off your books, Zachlavine and Vouch should just be gone,

799
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,280
got it? And if you're taking back bad money for

800
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,239
either one, then yes you want assets in return, but

801
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,199
Vouch in expiring salary and a second round pick. I

802
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:14,679
would do it. I know he's had a good year.

803
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,400
He serves no purpose for you long term. And by

804
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,239
the way, these are two of the primary reasons why

805
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,400
the Bulls are within a stone's throw of five hundred,

806
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,920
and you could envision them not trading anybody and trying

807
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,639
to actively get better after that. I think it gets

808
00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:32,320
into now we're talking about like, yeah, okay, look at

809
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,119
moving Tory Craig. But I'm more talking about like the

810
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:39,119
actual main names. I think you should look at moving

811
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:41,480
everybody who's not modest Bozellis.

812
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: It's just isn't it easier to frame this as as

813
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,559
like who should not be traded and it's basically bzillous

814
00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:49,400
because I know you're gonna get here. But like, there

815
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,960
are reasons to trade Kobe White and Iodasumu too, right,

816
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,760
they're different, but like those reasons exist, Patrick Williams. The

817
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,039
reasons obvious, but like it's just a question of what reasons.

818
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,119
It's not are there reasons to trade everybody? It's just

819
00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:03,480
like which type of reason is it? So like, give

820
00:38:03,519 --> 00:38:06,599
me the Kobe White and Iow thumbnail reason. Like we've

821
00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:08,000
talked about it plenty of times.

822
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with Kobe White, it's his trade value is

823
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,119
never going to be higher than it is right now

824
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,079
for you, because his deal is so good he has

825
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:16,440
more than a year left on it. I think you

826
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,800
could argue his highest trade point was over the offseason

827
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,760
when he had those two full seasons left on his contract.

828
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,920
And I understand that he's relatively young. He's not going

829
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,440
to extend off of this salary because one hundred and

830
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,360
forty percent off of thirteen million is going to come

831
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,320
in below market for him. I know free agency has changed,

832
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,159
but players of his age, of his ILK, I would

833
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:38,679
argue they're probably like, this isn't a Jordan Clarkson type,

834
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,199
Like this is someone who is more dynamic offensively and

835
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,480
certainly not as streaky, and I think he's easier to

836
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,159
fit in alongside other ball dominant players. That's the name

837
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:51,599
where I think you look at it and say, if

838
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:54,960
the Bulls move this player, they are committed to doing

839
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,119
this thing properly. And that's not to say they can

840
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,880
hold on to him and still do this properly, but

841
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,239
that's the evidence of Okay, the Bulls are serious about rebuilding,

842
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,320
reinventing themselves. Like that's the name who's a Harbinger. I

843
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,000
don't think anybody here should be the untouchable aside from

844
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,840
Buzzelli's who's just we talk about He's team first team,

845
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,719
all hashtag try shit and I appreciate that, so I

846
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,400
and I would love to see him they're talking about.

847
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,400
There was the report that like, hey, they'd be they'd

848
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,679
consider taking back like moving Lonzo Ball. If I'm a team,

849
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,719
I'd absolutely just take a flyer on Lonzo Ball. I'm

850
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,639
not shooting it too well, but like he said, some

851
00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:33,400
good defensive moments. His passing meme back in Our Lives

852
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,239
is great. It's an expiring contract. Is that someone if

853
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,840
you're taking back a certain type of contract that you

854
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,440
could get like a nice pick for a good prospect

855
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,440
for I don't know, but yeah, I'm with you. The

856
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:47,400
question really is who shouldn't the Bulls trade And there's

857
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,800
really only one answer. I honestly, you could talk me

858
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,440
into they should probably keep not if they were choosing

859
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,400
between the two, just keep Io over Kobe, because I

860
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,559
think there's a chance that Io's never gonna cost a

861
00:39:58,559 --> 00:39:59,840
ton of money to retake.

862
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: He's the one that you might capital m might be

863
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,639
able to extend. Kobe White just there's no way, like,

864
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,880
he's going to be a free agent and yeah, whatever

865
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:12,119
you could, you could resign him, but I just like,

866
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:14,239
I don't think an extension is possible. So you're gonna

867
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,199
face free agency with both most likely, iow is like,

868
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,360
I mean, interestingly, he's the one that we keep just

869
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,119
trying to send someplace that needs a like a role

870
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:27,000
playing you know, defense, Like he fits so many places.

871
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:29,519
But I think his market value will just be lower

872
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:31,320
and you might be able to extend him if you

873
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,639
want to write, like that's that's that's the other part

874
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:33,920
of it.

875
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: Here's the name we haven't mentioned. Should they be looking

876
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,639
to move Josh Giddy?

877
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:41,079
Speaker 2: Can they get a first round pick for him?

878
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,679
Speaker 1: I would assume not, but like teams would probably take

879
00:40:44,679 --> 00:40:46,360
a flyer on him and rather than be on the

880
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,599
hook for his next contract.

881
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, Like, so, what's the we've This has

882
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,960
been the point of discussion since they made the trade

883
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,239
for Giddy, Like, what's the best case scenario. It's that

884
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,000
he performs really well and you are just in paying

885
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,480
him what you know, you're certainly not going to give

886
00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:05,159
him the kind of extension that a bunch of his

887
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,760
draft mates got. But like that he earns an extension

888
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,920
you're comfortable giving, Like, I don't know, Like what is

889
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,320
the doll what is he worth right now? Like if

890
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,960
you're signing him to his next contract, I have no idea.

891
00:41:16,679 --> 00:41:18,960
So I'd rather just get move him for a draft asset.

892
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't think they would, just because why would

893
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,360
they take him back in the first place. But I

894
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,159
would argue that as of right now, this has almost

895
00:41:26,159 --> 00:41:28,599
been the worst case scenario for them, whereas he has

896
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:31,599
some numbers, feels kind of like a triple double threat,

897
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:34,159
Like that's the type of permittent production he gives you

898
00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:37,320
not shooting all that well from three this season, and

899
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,320
so he hasn't actualized his best case scenario, but it's

900
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,079
not the worst case to where has he effectively repressed

901
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,599
his value? And oh, by the way, he has some

902
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,719
like of these games where he's compiled a bunch of

903
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,559
numbers and yet you're worse statistically at both ends of

904
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,199
the floor with him on the court. And how do

905
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,119
you figure out what that guy is worth to you,

906
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:57,639
either as a trade asset or just as a on

907
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,480
his next contract? Like it's made it. This is the

908
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:02,840
dilemma that we said they should have avoided, but that

909
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,079
they've kind of just signed up for.

910
00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's a fascinating player. Like I'm so

911
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:10,400
curious about what his market is because they're.

912
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:12,519
Speaker 1: Not getting around pick for him. I would be shocked.

913
00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so either, But like you could

914
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,360
just depending on the team, you could look at his

915
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,119
youth and like box scortse and like justa like, man,

916
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,039
I don't know, like what if what if he becomes

917
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:23,920
a forty percent three point shooter at the two point

918
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,440
finishing is actually as big a problem as anything. But

919
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,920
then that bumps up against like does a smart team

920
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,280
look at him and just say, like the theory of

921
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,039
him in a really successful lineup just does not exist,

922
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:39,039
Like he just that type of his specific skill set

923
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:42,280
is just like we can't really build a winner like

924
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,039
because of the defense and because of the need for

925
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,159
the ball and like all this other stuff. I don't

926
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:48,519
know how you that. I'm just really interested to see,

927
00:42:49,039 --> 00:42:52,639
like if anything, what if anything the Bulls get for him,

928
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:55,639
and then just who decides we're in the giddy business

929
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,239
going forward?

930
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: And at what pay rate do you think, Like now

931
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,559
that they've traded shrewder Brooklyn, I don't know, I don't

932
00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:03,519
know what they want to give up, certainly not a first,

933
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,719
but it's like, do we just take the flyer on

934
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,280
giddy to see because he's he's not going to drive

935
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,920
your tank to lie, but like, maybe you find this

936
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,199
player who can run your offense the way that you

937
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,320
want Ben Simmons to run your offense. But he's certainly

938
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,320
he's definitely a more dynamic shot maker.

939
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's a pretty clear statement on

940
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:23,800
like sort of where he is that the teams that

941
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,960
make the most sense as far as acquiring him are

942
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,000
the ones with nothing to lose, Like, are the ones

943
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,280
that like they don't care about the downside. I mean

944
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,320
that that might speak louder than anything else we could

945
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,480
say about him.

946
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: So I guess so really quickly, I'm gonna set the

947
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,159
over under just an all Bowls primary rotation players at

948
00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:46,840
one and a half being traded at by the deadline.

949
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,280
Are you taking the over or the under?

950
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: I would go over. I think you, just like I've

951
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:55,800
if they don't trade one of Levigne or Vucevic, I'd

952
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,199
be shocked, and then you just need one more to

953
00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:59,960
get the over. So I think I think ideally they

954
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,199
trade both and then anything else beyond that is gravy.

955
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,719
But you got if they don't move either of them,

956
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,920
like what's happening? What are we? What are we doing?

957
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: Well, that's what that's the why. Then the second part

958
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,760
of this question might be more fascinating than the first

959
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,920
part is for Maddie, if they don't make any moves,

960
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:21,679
then why is it just they're habitually obsessed with finishing

961
00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:24,599
between nine and eleven? And he said, I don't under

962
00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:25,639
like that's it.

963
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 2: That would be it, That's what it's been, right, So

964
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:30,079
like that that might just continue to be the issue.

965
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:33,400
The thing for me is like they've had the bulls

966
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,119
have been defined by their failure to get value for assets,

967
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:39,039
like when they could have in the past, in the

968
00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:42,360
recent past, like go Caruso durozen on and on. Even

969
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,239
Levine to some extent, Levine is playing great, like this

970
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,639
is about the most you could have extend Vucevic too,

971
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,679
Like you could not ask for more productive seasons from

972
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:53,880
these two guys and have been healthy. The Levine's missed

973
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,559
four games this year, just missed us fourth the other day.

974
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,280
Like if they don't move them now and then their

975
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,639
value goes down, which it will because this is pretty

976
00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:05,280
much peak for both. They'll just be doing it again

977
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,159
and you just can't let you can't let that happen.

978
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:09,599
It's just like that, that would be the exact same

979
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,199
mistake over and over again.

980
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,079
Speaker 1: Here's a question, if you're Brooklyn, would you do Josh

981
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,519
Giddy and Patrick Williams for boy and Bogdanovitch and salary X?

982
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,840
So where it's Chicago is using Giddy to get off

983
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,360
the Patrick Williams contract, and then Brooklyn is maybe they

984
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,480
don't love that deal for Williams, but do they think

985
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:32,079
they could rehab his value? It's small enough to where

986
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:34,360
it's never going to count for even twenty percent of

987
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,079
the salary cap? Or is that just not enough to

988
00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:38,679
take on because now you're like, well then we're just

989
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:40,480
going to pay Josh Giddy after this season?

990
00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:44,199
Speaker 2: Or not? I mean, is what's you said? Bogdanovic? And

991
00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:45,599
what else? Uh?

992
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: But and salary X like is it is it? Zayie

993
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:50,039
er Williams. It's because the money is like fairly close

994
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:52,280
if you could also do like a Ben Simmons trade

995
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,719
if you're just like expanding it from Chicago's end, But

996
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:58,239
so between Giddy at eight point four and Patrick Williams

997
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,400
at eighteen, that's really twenty six point five million. And

998
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,360
so if you have that Bugdanovic slot that's nineteen. You

999
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,400
can aggregate Melton too right before the trade deadline that's

1000
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,679
twelve point eight. Zire Williams is six point one. You're

1001
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:13,960
not setting out Cam Thomas or Dayron Sharp.

1002
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: It's like, there's what wouldn't you because unless you think

1003
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,119
you're gonna get a first from somebody for Bogdanovitch, which

1004
00:46:20,119 --> 00:46:22,880
I don't think you are, that couldn't get one for Shrewder.

1005
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,559
So like the market set, why wouldn't you take a

1006
00:46:26,599 --> 00:46:29,639
crack at like maybe like I don't believe Patrick Williams

1007
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:31,760
is going to be like a starting caliber player or

1008
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,639
justify his contract, but he might and again it's nothing

1009
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:36,800
to lose thing like then you have Gideon him for

1010
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,440
the rest of this year that they will help you

1011
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,440
not win. So like I don't I don't understand why

1012
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:44,119
what are you holding on to Bogdanovic and that salary

1013
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:44,639
filler four?

1014
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: I think it's just Patrick Williams has four more years

1015
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:47,960
left on his deal after this.

1016
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:50,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're you're not gonna be winning anytime soon.

1017
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,320
And like just the the I don't know what the

1018
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,880
percentage chance is that he justifies his draft slot and

1019
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,360
that contract, but it's not zero. So I can also

1020
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,679
in case you should just take a shot at it.

1021
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,639
Speaker 1: And let's say so by the end of next season

1022
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,920
when they I've used when now they're draft picks. Okay,

1023
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,320
now they're conveying again not to Brooklyn and they're going

1024
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,159
to their own to Houston. Right, So it's well, there's

1025
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:12,679
really only three years left on that deal and that

1026
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,280
doesn't look so bad, right, And.

1027
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know, it's it's definitely like that

1028
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,000
deal is worse because the Bulls gave it out, you

1029
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:22,159
know what I mean, Like the stigma of it is

1030
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:23,599
attached to the team that pays.

1031
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: They Essentially, would you, well, in a vacuum, would you

1032
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,199
do that as the Bulls to get off the Williams

1033
00:47:28,199 --> 00:47:30,280
contract and then you're also kind of getting off the

1034
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,079
hook for Josh Getty's next contract.

1035
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:34,679
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it looks worse. I think the fact that

1036
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,079
I so readily said yes from the Nets side means

1037
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:39,599
I can't do it with quite so little hesitation on

1038
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:42,079
the Bulls side, because I if I'm doing that, I'm

1039
00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:44,280
just man for the nets.

1040
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: Really, because the Patrick Williams deal, Yeah, there's it's not

1041
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,639
a it's a he might live up to that contract

1042
00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:51,880
or come close to it. I know he gives you

1043
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,159
value Defensively, He's always shot the ball fairly well from three. Yeah,

1044
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,800
but like that, that's a long contract. It may not

1045
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,239
be this albatross, but that's a long long contract. If

1046
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,639
I'm the Bulls, now is the optics of were this?

1047
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:07,559
This is what that trade would be the Bulls using

1048
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:10,679
Alex Caruso to get off of a deal for Patrick Williams.

1049
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,320
They didn't have to give him. Oh, it's kind of reality.

1050
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: If you look at it that way, almost anything they

1051
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,280
do is going to be bad because it's just like

1052
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,159
you could have just got a first for Alex Caruso.

1053
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: Like in our comments are mentions that have said, like,

1054
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,679
Caruso's not shooting the ball while this year he's always injured,

1055
00:48:24,679 --> 00:48:28,079
only plays x amount of minutes per game. Okay, you

1056
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:31,039
know what, he also helps drive winning and your defense,

1057
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,199
and you know what, Josh Giddy does none of those

1058
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:38,079
things the opposite. Also, Josh Ginnny's averaging, he's not playing

1059
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:40,519
like thirty five minutes a game. He's averaged twenty five

1060
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:42,119
minutes per game last year. He's with the twenty seven

1061
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,599
point one this year. Yeah, I get that he's younger,

1062
00:48:44,639 --> 00:48:47,000
but what if you I just find it there was

1063
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,599
I don't care what you think the peak of Crusoe

1064
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:53,320
trade trade value was, Like it's debatable. I know for

1065
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:54,920
fact the Bulls could have gotten a first round pick

1066
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:55,519
for him or.

1067
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:57,039
Speaker 2: Was it two at some point?

1068
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: Like and I'm sure that's but I know for a fact,

1069
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:02,639
like they could have gotten a first round picker Elex Crew.

1070
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,159
So don't sit here and tell me they couldn't have

1071
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:05,599
gotten a first round picker Olx Crew.

1072
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 2: So that's that's wrong.

1073
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: Uh so did you you took the over on one

1074
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,639
point five? I'm gonna take the over two because if

1075
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:14,880
they don't, I don't know that we have that. We

1076
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,679
made a joke about being addicted to the bottom of

1077
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,559
the middle, but there is no defensible answer for not

1078
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:25,480
trading as many players possible. This next question comes from Yoho.

1079
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:29,239
Denver is currently fifth in the West and Sacramento is twelfth,

1080
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,000
but as of December sixteenth, they both have thirteen wins.

1081
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,400
Will this parody continue or will a new tier emerge

1082
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,639
out of teams five through twelve shout out. I can't

1083
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:40,519
remember who did it, but we had a when we

1084
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:43,840
were doing the overreactions or the hot predictions, and we

1085
00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:48,320
had our subscribers submit their own someone said that thirteen

1086
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,840
teams in the Western Conference we're gonna finish above five hundred,

1087
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,679
and that's clearly not gonna happen. Or maybe it was twelve.

1088
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:58,400
If it was twelve, we're not that far away from

1089
00:49:58,199 --> 00:49:59,400
it being just a fact.

1090
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: So this is so there's kind of like two ways

1091
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,039
to take this, and I want to deal with the

1092
00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:09,840
first one up front, Like, so are we talking about

1093
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:14,559
parody continuing in terms of the standings, Like will we

1094
00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:19,480
have these crazy slim margins between standings or is it

1095
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:23,920
viewed as like through the championship equity lens where it's like, well,

1096
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:26,800
they have the same number of wins, are similar, therefore

1097
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,079
we should view Sacramento and Denver and on down the

1098
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:34,800
list Houston, Dallas, whatever similarly. Because because actually I'm kind

1099
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,519
of interested in talking about the second part of that.

1100
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,880
But but I would answer first like I do think

1101
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,960
we're just in for parity. I think I think we're

1102
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,000
gonna have really like down to the wire. You might

1103
00:50:44,039 --> 00:50:46,920
finish fourth, you might finish ninth. Like in the last

1104
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,719
week of the season. I think we could be in

1105
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,440
for some like really close races in that sense. What

1106
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:53,920
do you do you agree with that part of it?

1107
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,079
Speaker 1: I do agree, because what is the team that's going

1108
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:01,920
to pivot out of this power pready muck and maybe

1109
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,199
san Antonio but probably not. And I think there might

1110
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,760
be a case at some point where if the Kings

1111
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,159
are just still dwindling outside, it's kind of time to

1112
00:51:09,199 --> 00:51:12,039
regroup at the trade deadline. But you wouldn't predict.

1113
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 2: We think the opposite's gonna happen with them, right, We've

1114
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,079
said that we think they're gonna be.

1115
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 1: And King Shans do not agree with me. So this

1116
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,320
is probably a terrible thing. I think the Kings are

1117
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,320
a lot better than their record reflects, even in this

1118
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,480
Western Conference, So I don't think they should go that route,

1119
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,800
and I don't think they will. I think the parody continues.

1120
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,000
I didn't even take it the way that you were

1121
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:31,920
viewing it. So that's an interesting way to frame it

1122
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,360
in terms of championship equity.

1123
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,159
Speaker 2: Well, so I just I was gonna say we should

1124
00:51:37,159 --> 00:51:39,280
take this opportunity to like tier out the West in

1125
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,079
terms of championship equity, because it does look like, oh

1126
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,960
my god, it's wide open. I don't think that's really

1127
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:49,119
the case. So like, let's just say, uh is Okaye.

1128
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:50,639
Speaker 1: Is the thunder by themselves?

1129
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask you. Are they

1130
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,639
in a tier by themselves or and if they are not,

1131
00:51:55,039 --> 00:51:57,079
who do we include in that tier with them?

1132
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,679
Speaker 1: Who is? I don't have the answer. Can I give

1133
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:01,880
you a couple options?

1134
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: So, like my thought, the teams I would consider putting

1135
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,119
in Okac's tier are Dallas, Memphis, Denver, and Minnesota.

1136
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 1: Oh, Dallas is a good one. I think Dallas belongs

1137
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:13,159
in there.

1138
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:16,119
Speaker 2: I think I agree if I had if they had

1139
00:52:16,119 --> 00:52:19,920
any one I would say, I would say Dallas is

1140
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,400
the one I would lean towards if I had to

1141
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,400
pick one. But I don't feel great about it. So

1142
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,159
I feel like the next tier is Dallas, Memphis, Denver,

1143
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,599
Minnesota in terms of like they're not on the Thunders tier.

1144
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,360
They could all be in the finals and I wouldn't

1145
00:52:33,519 --> 00:52:38,119
like bad And I just like, and I've excluded Houston

1146
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,599
from that group just because of the youth and inexperience,

1147
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:43,320
and they don't have the like number one option scoring

1148
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,119
star that I feel like you need to be there.

1149
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,199
Speaker 1: A half court offense still almost bottom five. They're not

1150
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,239
shooting a lot from three or making a ton of

1151
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:51,800
their threes.

1152
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would you good.

1153
00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm wondering. I'm honestly wondering if Dallas belongs in the

1154
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,880
same tier as Oklahoma City because Oklahoma City clearly has

1155
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:02,079
not to use the NBA Cup as an example, but

1156
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:04,440
like the offense can get sticky, like they need more

1157
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,360
shooting or another creator there.

1158
00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:09,119
Speaker 2: It happened in against Houston in the last two games

1159
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:11,280
or two, right, it happened against Houston. It happened again

1160
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,440
against Milwaukee. That's two good defenses are I mean Houston certainly,

1161
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:17,440
but Milwaukee played good defense in that game.

1162
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: Dallas beat them last year, and so I think Dallas

1163
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,760
probably belongs in the same tiers. Okay, I would have

1164
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:25,800
if we were ranking within the tier, but like Dallas is,

1165
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,280
I don't even think they've peaked yet, and they just

1166
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,280
they're they're really good.

1167
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, So if I move anyone up, it's Dallas.

1168
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,199
So from the tier below that group, you have Houston,

1169
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,159
Golden State, Sacramento, and Phoenix. Does any of them belong

1170
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,199
in the Memphis, Denver, Minnesota tier or is that a

1171
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,079
good You don't think so. I think we're reming no trades.

1172
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,199
If Butler we can readdress, but I.

1173
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: Think most of those teams might be one player away.

1174
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:53,239
But yeah, I don't think any of them belong in

1175
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:54,440
the second tier.

1176
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 2: Houston you probably feel the worst about just because that

1177
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,280
defense is so elite like and if but we're saying

1178
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,360
no trades. So, but I don't know how you get

1179
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,719
past the offensive stuff with them unless you change the roster.

1180
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,440
So the last two I have before we just don't

1181
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,440
care anymore are the Clippers and Lakers. I think you

1182
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:14,000
can make a case the Clippers belong in the Houston

1183
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,800
Sack Phoenix, Golden State tier. The Lakers I don't think

1184
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,719
you could. But that's kind of where I've mark I've

1185
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,000
got four real tiers of like playoff type teams. Then

1186
00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:24,239
that's kind of how I break them down.

1187
00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:28,039
Speaker 1: The Clippers are tough because, especially if we're assuming no trades,

1188
00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:30,400
can we do we assume that if they have Kawhi,

1189
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,920
it's just such a different ballgame for them, And there

1190
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,800
I think one of their main problems aside from the

1191
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,039
like James Harden just carries this in his prime workload

1192
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:42,519
at the moment and like he's just not built to

1193
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:45,599
his rim shot quality hasn't been worse in like over

1194
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:47,480
half a decade than it is right now. But if

1195
00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:50,280
Kawhi comes back, it changes things for them. So I

1196
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,440
would almost want to nudge them up into that tier

1197
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:55,320
that has Houston. And I'm also compelled I want to

1198
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,960
nudge Houston up as well, just because of how inconsistent

1199
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,679
like we have the because what's the difference. Is it

1200
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,280
just the experience and maybe the depth for you between

1201
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,559
Houston and Memphis, where they have a lot of similar

1202
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,360
offensive issues aside from well they have like a clear

1203
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,800
cut number one number two on offense, but their first

1204
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,519
chance offense, neither of these teams are setting the world

1205
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:14,960
on fire.

1206
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:22,039
Speaker 2: I think I think Memphis comes closer to having. I

1207
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,079
think Memphis, certainly on offense, has more opportunities to like

1208
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:28,320
create matchup problems to me in a playoff series, And

1209
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,320
I think jaw is just a better driver of offense

1210
00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:35,840
against really great defense than anyone Houston has at the moment.

1211
00:55:37,519 --> 00:55:39,880
So I mean again, that's close. Like if I were

1212
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,239
moving a team up to the Memphis Denver Minnesota tier,

1213
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,239
it would be Houston. I guess I just trust Memphis more.

1214
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,079
I think Memphis is. I don't know. I was about

1215
00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:52,480
to say, like, well Edie is back and like he

1216
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:55,039
actually has been hugely positively impactful and if they have

1217
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:57,880
him for the full season. No, I can't go that far. Though.

1218
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,199
Speaker 1: There's a separator there because Memphis is I just looked

1219
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,320
it up. They're fourteenth in first chance offense and Houston's

1220
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:05,559
twenty fifth. There's a year.

1221
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Memphis is fifth in offense overall, right, like.

1222
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:11,079
Speaker 1: They're the only team in the top five of both

1223
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:14,800
off I know they're deep, but holy shit, yeah, oh

1224
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,559
they're really good there, so I would So that was

1225
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:21,840
just to illustrate like there is gonna be standings parody.

1226
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what would have to but I do

1227
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:28,360
think there are pretty there's pretty clear stratification in terms

1228
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,119
of like who we think is going to like make

1229
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:33,320
the finals right in the West. I think there are

1230
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,679
some real cutoff points.

1231
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,599
Speaker 1: I think we agree that it's okay seven Dallas, even

1232
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:39,320
if you want to put Dallas in the second tier.

1233
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,679
Who was the third most menacing contender in the Western Conference.

1234
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: I mean, so I have to choose from Memphis, Denver, Minnesota.

1235
00:56:48,519 --> 00:56:51,840
Those are my candidates. If nobody makes a trade, I

1236
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:56,840
might Minnesota, right, I don't know, man, Like, so the

1237
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,239
case for Denver is they have Jokic. That's where it

1238
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,880
starts and ends. Uh. Minnesota feels like the defense is

1239
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:08,519
it's fixed now? Uh? And can you just find enough

1240
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,360
ways to like mess with the rotations to score? But

1241
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,639
then Memphis is just right there. The Memphis is top five,

1242
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:17,440
and both we just said offense and defense, Like, why

1243
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:18,199
is it a Memphis?

1244
00:57:18,599 --> 00:57:21,679
Speaker 1: Who's I guess Minnesota and Memphis have just similar concerns

1245
00:57:21,719 --> 00:57:25,159
for different reasons of do you trust their playoff offense?

1246
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,360
And Denver it's I kind of trust their playoff offense.

1247
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,199
I mean we're getting the good version of Jamal Murray

1248
00:57:30,199 --> 00:57:33,840
at the moment. Uh huh, man, I think this I

1249
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,360
want towards the team that has Jokic, right, But there's

1250
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,360
too much combustibility in Denver. I don't I know the

1251
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,599
Jokic minutes have been they were so grant as of

1252
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,519
games entering on December eighteenth, when we're recording this, which

1253
00:57:48,599 --> 00:57:51,679
is a is it a Wednesday? Wednesday? The Nuggets are

1254
00:57:51,679 --> 00:57:53,960
out scoring teams by more points per possession with Yokic

1255
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,239
on the court this year than they were last season. Yeah,

1256
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,840
twelve point eight versus twelve point six. That is insane,

1257
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,760
just when you consider like how and even Denver has

1258
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,760
looked like Jamal Murray not been great for the first

1259
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,559
part of your Maybe it's because he's come on, you

1260
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:12,039
understand it more and you could say, well, Casep's not

1261
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:14,760
doing that well in Orlando, like you shed like a

1262
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,480
top five rotation player, top six rotation player if you

1263
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:19,719
want to. And the Nuggets are better with Jokich on

1264
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,719
before this year across more time per game than they

1265
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,800
were last season. That is That's bonkers me. But this

1266
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,000
is not a Nicolai Oakice podcast. We've had enough of those.

1267
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: All right, Let's move to the next question. That was

1268
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:32,519
a good question. I enjoyed that.

1269
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question, Thank you, Joho. Our next

1270
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,079
question comes from and it's yours.

1271
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,599
Speaker 2: All right, This is from Hayden and sons. How would

1272
00:58:38,639 --> 00:58:40,800
you prefer to build a team for the next ten years?

1273
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,639
And I'll go a little deeper on this because I

1274
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,719
think this is another one of my favorite questions.

1275
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the one that I've thought so much

1276
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,360
about and come to zero conclusions.

1277
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:52,639
Speaker 2: I'm glad I got for.

1278
00:58:52,639 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: The YouTube wotchers because it's it's very in depth.

1279
00:58:55,559 --> 00:58:58,599
Speaker 2: This okay, so I'll just should I just read the

1280
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:01,480
whole question? I feel like, yeah, okay. So, via a

1281
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:04,199
magic genie, you are now the general manager of Team X.

1282
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,719
Your objective is to win a championship within ten years.

1283
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,880
It's a long time horizon. You are given the choice

1284
00:59:11,239 --> 00:59:14,719
between having two thirty plus year old all NBA level

1285
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,639
players at the start, but you have a mediocre roster

1286
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,239
around them and the picks cupboard is virtually barren. Or

1287
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,719
you start with the team with no cornerstones on the roster,

1288
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,039
but you have two first round picks in each of

1289
00:59:27,079 --> 00:59:30,480
the next four drafts and are guaranteed a top five

1290
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:33,800
pick for the next three years. So you got eight

1291
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,400
firsts in the next four drafts. You're getting three guys

1292
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:42,239
in the top five of the next three classes. Pretty good.

1293
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,119
Which team do you feel most confident you can win

1294
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:48,519
a championship within the next within that ten year timeframe.

1295
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,880
I want to start by looking at precedent, and so

1296
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:56,159
I looked at the last like I don't know, maybe

1297
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,760
ten twelve champions and try to see which of the

1298
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,800
two buckets they fit into, and unfortunately, the vast majority

1299
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,079
of them are like kind of in the middle. You

1300
01:00:07,159 --> 01:00:10,840
could cite the twenty two Warriors as your over thirty's team.

1301
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:13,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably what was the last team? It was probably

1302
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:15,880
the Spurs and those Warriors where all their top players

1303
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:16,480
were over thirty.

1304
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: Right, you've got to go way back to the Spurs.

1305
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,719
If you go before the twenty two Warriors, the no

1306
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,320
cornerstones but picks and guaranteed three x top fives. It's

1307
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,199
basically last year's Celtics. Like that's as close as you

1308
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,239
get from like you got the Tatum and Browns, those

1309
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,360
really two You're built through the draft essentially, is what

1310
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,599
like the other alternative is you might say the thunder

1311
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,960
are like a current model for that, even though they

1312
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,000
didn't have multiple top fives, they just, you know, anyway,

1313
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,360
everybody else is like kind of in between. So you

1314
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,639
look at the twenty three Nuggets, neither there's no to

1315
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,679
they don't have any nobody was over thirty that was

1316
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,119
like an All NBA player on that team. Twenty one

1317
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:56,840
Bucks kind of neither traded for Drew Holliday. Giannis wasn't

1318
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,199
a top five pick. Brook Lopez was over thirty, like,

1319
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,400
not an all NBA guy. Twenty Lakers, maybe that's close.

1320
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,079
Anthony Davis was not thirty. So you had one old

1321
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:08,400
all NBA guy and one guy in.

1322
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,559
Speaker 1: The skeletal structure of someone who's thirty.

1323
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: Or right right, you know, I'll put him up there

1324
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,960
with the Warriors. Nineteen Raptors traded for Kawhi, who was

1325
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,280
like twenty seven I think, or twenty eight, So like

1326
01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:25,840
the eighteen Warriors, seventeen Warriors, that's I mean, Steph All,

1327
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,280
the all the guys that they drafted were not thirty

1328
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,360
yet on those teams, the sixteen Calves don't really fit

1329
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,679
in either bucket. The fifteen Warriors are closer because you

1330
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,800
have your Steph, Draymond, and Clay, but none of them

1331
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,440
were top five picks, so like I bet they were

1332
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,400
all homegrown. Here's the main takeaway is if you are

1333
01:01:47,519 --> 01:01:51,320
built around multiple over thirties players, even if they're all

1334
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,960
NBA level, it's not happening, like you aren't winning a time.

1335
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,519
Speaker 1: Doesn't this kind of describe and maybe doesn't this basically

1336
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:00,719
describe Phoenix Suns.

1337
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's a great example, Like you those are

1338
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,960
the teams that are desperate, Like, those are the teams

1339
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:10,400
that have like one shot at it, and that Suns

1340
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,880
team has been together for a year plus. You're not

1341
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,239
taking any of their championship equity over a ten year window. Right,

1342
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,840
it's maybe this year, maybe next, and then there's it's done.

1343
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,000
So the in betweens are where you want to be.

1344
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,519
Is like, you want multiple stars. They can be homegrown

1345
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:27,599
or not, but they got to be mid to late twenties.

1346
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,800
And that's just that is the championship blueprint. I think,

1347
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:33,719
what what did you what rabbit holes did you go down?

1348
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,480
Trying to answer this, I My whole.

1349
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,079
Speaker 1: Thing is, so you're looking at the draft and like,

1350
01:02:39,239 --> 01:02:42,159
even when you're talking about picks that are this high,

1351
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:46,840
the idea of having two bankable all NBA players, what

1352
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,199
are the odds that you get too bankable all NBA

1353
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,559
players within that timeframe from that what was it the

1354
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:53,880
three year draft window? Right?

1355
01:02:54,159 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1356
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: What are honestly what are the odds like the let's

1357
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,400
be let's look at the Thunder. They have one. They

1358
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,480
didn't draft Tim We could say Chet holgrind and Jail

1359
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:02,719
Williams are headed down that path.

1360
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:05,239
Speaker 2: Memphis, they haven't made one yet, John.

1361
01:03:05,159 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: Jaron Dax today, Yeah maybe they would. I mean Chet

1362
01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:10,320
holmgreand one he hasn't played enough.

1363
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 2: But Houston is like basically on that path because Jalen

1364
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,920
Green read Shepherd, Jabari Smith, there's your top five picks

1365
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:20,559
in consecut consecutive ISH drafts. I'm in Thompson. What was

1366
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:21,920
he a fifth? Was he? I forget what?

1367
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? He was a top five pick two he was four.

1368
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 2: I guess the question the question, really you could boil

1369
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,920
this down to would you rather have Houston's next ten

1370
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,159
years to win a championship or Phoenix's. It's like no brainer.

1371
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,239
I think I think it's I think it's Houston.

1372
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,159
Speaker 1: I think it's Houston's. It's when you but you also

1373
01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:42,559
do I do think are we not waiting enough because

1374
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:46,440
because we're saying we'll take Houston and I guess that

1375
01:03:46,519 --> 01:03:48,239
makes sense because you're looking at the hit rate on

1376
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,360
their top five picks and they're not perfect, Like we

1377
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,960
don't know what Reaed Shepherd is. There's clear flaws with Jabari,

1378
01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:56,679
there's clear flaws with Amn Thomas. So that probably is

1379
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,519
the best analog.

1380
01:03:59,199 --> 01:04:03,119
Speaker 2: The counter is like, I think over a ten year window,

1381
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,599
your odds of winning any chance in winning one championship

1382
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:09,639
are super low. So like, do you the case for

1383
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:12,280
the two thirty plus all NBA guys is can you

1384
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,280
get one and then just you know, the you have

1385
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,800
two good years, you win a title the next eight

1386
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:22,039
or garbage you're rebuilding things fall apart, Like is that

1387
01:04:22,199 --> 01:04:25,519
smarter than the basically just buying lottery tickets, which is

1388
01:04:25,559 --> 01:04:27,920
what you're doing with the young Young pathway. I still

1389
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,280
think the clear through line is every one of these

1390
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,719
teams that I mentioned, I guess, other than Toronto and

1391
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,280
maybe the sixteen Calves because Lebron came back, have a

1392
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,519
home grown superstar that they drafted. So I think that's

1393
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,840
that's the only thing you know you must have is

1394
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,559
at least one guy that becomes a superstar that you drafted,

1395
01:04:50,639 --> 01:04:52,840
regardless of where you got him. But other than that,

1396
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:59,360
it's just like there's neither pathway. Is is like, looks great, Yeah, because.

1397
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we can't even assume both of

1398
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:03,400
the thirty. What if we're just taking the Celtics with

1399
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,639
a mediocre roster and as Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown

1400
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:08,280
aged thirty plus, because you can't assume, like, how did

1401
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:12,239
you get those players? Yeah, because there's part of me,

1402
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:13,840
and this is what I haven't said yet, is that

1403
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,920
you're shrinking the window with option that that was option

1404
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:20,400
A of having the two thirty plus ll NBA players.

1405
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,440
But like, if you can guarantee two years of a

1406
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:27,599
fifteen percent chance of winning the championship, are we ever

1407
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,920
can you guar like you can't guarantee that Houston is

1408
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,320
ever going to have consecutive seasons with that high of

1409
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,199
a title equity. Yet they're they're good, they're promising, But

1410
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,119
you know why they're good in promising because the expectations

1411
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:41,760
haven't come into the play right and they have all

1412
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,199
these paths available and it's not just the picks, but

1413
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,920
it's still all these players we've basically discussed, with the

1414
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,320
exception of Jalen Green, they could still kind of be

1415
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,920
anything or anyone. And I sometimes feel like we over

1416
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:57,039
romanticize that mystique, which is also why we over romanticize

1417
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,320
rebuilds and teardowns in general. It was very easy to

1418
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,079
laud what the Utah Jazz did right when they traded

1419
01:06:04,119 --> 01:06:07,079
Donovantchel Rigobert that it was too lawd and we I

1420
01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:08,880
thought we did a good job of lauding everybody, but

1421
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:10,840
it was easier to laud the jazz that it was

1422
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,159
to celebrate what Cleveland and Minnesota gave up and did

1423
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:14,960
during that stretch.

1424
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 2: And I think too, to your point the option B,

1425
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:20,880
where you're just hoarding all these top five picks or

1426
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,519
what who knows how many more you're getting. We're guaranteed

1427
01:06:23,559 --> 01:06:27,920
three top five guys. You're overestimating the odds of you

1428
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:29,639
being able to keep all those guys, because what are

1429
01:06:29,679 --> 01:06:31,800
we already talking about with the rockets, It's like, how

1430
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,960
do you You can't You can't pay everybody. The thunder

1431
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,360
are gonna knock on that door very very soon. So

1432
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,000
it's like, if you go with the I'll take all

1433
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:44,119
the picks clean slate, basically, you're assuming that you're gonna

1434
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:47,719
win some of those, probably pretty early on, I think,

1435
01:06:48,119 --> 01:06:49,880
because you just you'll get to a point where you're

1436
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,480
gonna have to lose some of these guys you drafted

1437
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,960
really high because you can't afford them. I still think

1438
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:58,039
that's the way to go because that maximizes your chances

1439
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:03,119
of getting Steph Yanni Yo kich or what getting the

1440
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,320
the cornerstone guy that you build around as opposed to

1441
01:07:08,639 --> 01:07:11,039
what the sons have. The sons are we keep using them,

1442
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:12,599
but it's like, I don't know who else you point

1443
01:07:12,639 --> 01:07:15,000
to as the example of the team built around.

1444
01:07:15,199 --> 01:07:18,079
Speaker 1: I mean, this would be a cautionary tale. But the

1445
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:21,519
sense the defunct version or it kind of still is

1446
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:24,079
that he just one of them hasn't played yet the Clippers.

1447
01:07:25,239 --> 01:07:28,119
Speaker 2: Great, Yeah, great point, Paul George Kawhi, because and there's

1448
01:07:28,159 --> 01:07:31,880
another Jamie Carden. Right, there's a price and risk, right

1449
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,880
if you go the route of the two older guys,

1450
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,159
like they're more likely to miss time because the older

1451
01:07:37,199 --> 01:07:39,039
you get, the more likely you already get hurt. There

1452
01:07:39,039 --> 01:07:42,159
are special cases, I guess, but like that's a risk

1453
01:07:42,199 --> 01:07:44,639
you got a factor into. I go to answer the question,

1454
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,280
I go the young route just because I know I

1455
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,599
need to get like the guy who's who I have

1456
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,039
control over and is a super duper star at age

1457
01:07:53,079 --> 01:07:53,639
twenty seven.

1458
01:07:54,159 --> 01:07:56,639
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you. I would agree. I do

1459
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:58,599
think it's interesting if you do it through the lens

1460
01:07:58,679 --> 01:08:02,639
of oh, how what was the gap between the Warriors titles.

1461
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,360
So they Wonted twenty eighteen, the wont A gat in

1462
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,000
twenty twenty two, So four years. Yeah, So if you're

1463
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:11,960
saying that they're the best sort of analogue for option

1464
01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:14,280
A like that won a title recently.

1465
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:17,319
Speaker 2: They did it both ways kind of right, But it's.

1466
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,119
Speaker 1: Would you rather have kind of Houston or let's say

1467
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:24,039
the Golden State that team, and you know it's the

1468
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:26,039
four year window, but like after that it's kind of

1469
01:08:26,079 --> 01:08:28,600
fading because that we're just kind of assuming that this

1470
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,800
is a one or two year window. But if you

1471
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,880
open it up to a team where Golden State might fit,

1472
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,039
this might not be perfect. But it's not perfect because

1473
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:37,720
maybe they were some of them might have been a

1474
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,319
little bit younger at one point. But also like you

1475
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:42,319
didn't have another All NBA player with Steph during that

1476
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:46,239
time frame after Durant left. So like, if you frame

1477
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:48,279
it that way of would you rather have four years

1478
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:50,039
of like kind of that Warriors team or maybe a

1479
01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:53,039
slightly better version of it, Like you're getting four years

1480
01:08:53,039 --> 01:08:54,560
of a window out of that versus the ten year

1481
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,199
window of a team that you're kind of starting from scratch.

1482
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'll take the one that has Steph,

1483
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,680
I guess if you've you got to well you didn't, Yeah, right,

1484
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,199
I didn't. Well that's yeah, that's it. I mean, that's

1485
01:09:07,199 --> 01:09:09,159
a fascinating I mean that is kind of the question

1486
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,800
every NBA team asks itself, like when they sit down

1487
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:13,840
and say, like, what are we doing right? Like, now,

1488
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:14,680
how do we want to do this?

1489
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,079
Speaker 1: Let's really gain this. If I'm a GM, I value

1490
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:20,479
job stability and rebuilding from the ground up is a

1491
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:25,560
great way to preserve your your your job security because look,

1492
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,399
this is gonna take a while. But and if you

1493
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:29,359
go the other route with two thirty plus a LMBA stars,

1494
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:31,800
you're just perpetually on the hot seat. So that's another

1495
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,640
reason to go the youthful route.

1496
01:09:34,119 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, it's it's that.

1497
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,560
Speaker 1: I was just no discord comments mentioned wherever. Let us

1498
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,199
know what you would pick. That was a great That

1499
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,359
was a really good question, Hayden and sons, I know

1500
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,359
that one. We have one from Matt chand though Grant,

1501
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,279
what do you guys think of Jalen Johnson's ceiling as

1502
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:51,279
a player having a breakout season with the Hawks and

1503
01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:53,079
might even get into All Star consideration.

1504
01:09:55,159 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 2: I think so. First of all, he's twenty happy birthday.

1505
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,840
He turned twenty three today. Things reference get a little

1506
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,840
older old. Yeah, I think he can be an All

1507
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,720
Star and possibly, like we're talking ceiling, I think he has.

1508
01:10:10,359 --> 01:10:12,119
I don't know how likely i'd say it is, but

1509
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:14,560
like an All NBA ceiling, you know, if he gets

1510
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,159
marginally better in the next three to four years, I

1511
01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:18,960
think he could get up there where we're talking about

1512
01:10:19,039 --> 01:10:21,920
him in that in that vein certainly an all star ceiling.

1513
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,800
I think, like I know, every time we talk about him,

1514
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:27,760
we like to go with like, actually, the breakout was

1515
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,920
last year, and I think that's definitely true in a

1516
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:33,000
in a like big picture sense, but he has improved

1517
01:10:33,079 --> 01:10:36,159
this season. All of his per one hundred points rebounds

1518
01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:39,279
assists are higher, his usages up, his true shootings down

1519
01:10:39,279 --> 01:10:42,920
a touch, which I'll take with the higher usage good

1520
01:10:43,039 --> 01:10:45,239
not great defender. I would say, like if I were

1521
01:10:45,319 --> 01:10:47,520
looking for growth, that might be right there. And then

1522
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,199
doesn't self generate threes, So those would be the two

1523
01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:53,760
spots where like, if you're talking superstar, gotta gotta be

1524
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,840
a ninety percent of his threes are assisted, so just

1525
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,319
like you know, that's not part of it yet to your.

1526
01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:02,319
Speaker 1: Point, about his usage though he is taking like more

1527
01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:04,479
of his shots or going unassisted overall than ever in

1528
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,720
his career. And I think what's impressed me the most

1529
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,560
about this season. I think there's been some defensive improvement

1530
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:11,760
for him, but I think that he's been and this

1531
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,359
is not necessarily someone I viewed him as previously who

1532
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:19,000
can create things from a dead stop. They've tripled and

1533
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:20,319
by the way, the results have not been good. I

1534
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:21,840
want to make that clear, but they've tripled his pick

1535
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,600
and roll volume. It's like, that's kind of how you

1536
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,039
find out if this guy can do X by putting

1537
01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:28,840
him in those situations. They've actually the other thing that's

1538
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:32,159
encouraging is they've really he's played a bunch six hundred

1539
01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:33,600
and twenty. That's maybe that's not a bunch. He's six

1540
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,279
hundred and twenty possessions without Trey Young. The Hawks have

1541
01:11:36,399 --> 01:11:39,960
lost those minutes, but it's not by like some astronomical degree.

1542
01:11:40,039 --> 01:11:41,960
And when you don't have a lot of those lineups,

1543
01:11:42,039 --> 01:11:44,920
I mean all of those lineups don't have an actual

1544
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,359
primary or traditional floor general. That's a really big deal,

1545
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,560
and so the offense is terrible during those stretches. You

1546
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,399
would like to see that come up. I never found

1547
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,319
myself wondering if he could do that as a player,

1548
01:11:56,399 --> 01:11:58,159
And I think that they've used him in enough different

1549
01:11:58,199 --> 01:12:00,479
ways now to where it's okay, the results aren't always

1550
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:03,199
efficient or necessarily pretty, but this is a much more

1551
01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:05,399
well rounded player, and right now it's come at the

1552
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,199
cost of efficiency. Can you ever bridge those gaps to

1553
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:10,720
where he's doing a lot more? But now the efficiency

1554
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,000
continues to go up, and I think, but again, the

1555
01:12:14,039 --> 01:12:15,720
big thing for me is just the passing is way

1556
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:17,760
better than even It was better last year than I

1557
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:19,399
thought it was going to be, and it was way

1558
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:20,880
better this year than I thought it could ever be.

1559
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 2: He's a good passer, right, like we you know, not great,

1560
01:12:25,199 --> 01:12:26,920
not like run your offense through them all the time,

1561
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,920
but like that and the athleticism and the growth he's

1562
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,199
made kind of in across the board ways, it's like

1563
01:12:33,399 --> 01:12:35,600
it's not out of the realm of possibility that he

1564
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:40,720
becomes just you know, like just the ideal hyper athletic,

1565
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,720
big wing slash combo forward that is your best player

1566
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:46,239
on a playoff team like that, That's like that's not

1567
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,199
far off hypothetically.

1568
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, Look, there's still some low hanging fruit

1569
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,359
that I think he can clean up where he might

1570
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:55,439
be someone who can like some of this might be

1571
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:57,720
spacing in certain lineups, but he can pass more out

1572
01:12:57,760 --> 01:12:59,880
of his drives too, And for what he does best,

1573
01:13:00,199 --> 01:13:02,960
that's almost catnip because when he's going downhill is probably

1574
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,119
when he's at his best. Still when you're in transition

1575
01:13:05,239 --> 01:13:07,159
or just driving, maybe coming off a ball screen or

1576
01:13:07,359 --> 01:13:09,199
getting the ball on the move, and I think there's

1577
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:11,279
room for him to pass even more in those instances.

1578
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,399
It's sort of like, could you view him as maybe

1579
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:21,039
a like a better spacing Draymond Green on offense, I

1580
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:25,399
mean better a lot of things than better at creating

1581
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:26,239
his own shot.

1582
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:28,279
Speaker 2: He could get it. Yeah, he's gonna get his own

1583
01:13:28,319 --> 01:13:31,560
and look to get his own shot. I just think like, yeah,

1584
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,239
I don't know what the comp is like every time

1585
01:13:34,319 --> 01:13:38,960
you have a it's hard like who is a comp

1586
01:13:39,039 --> 01:13:41,079
for him that's like a notch or two better at

1587
01:13:41,199 --> 01:13:43,720
Like it's not Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown's a little different.

1588
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,119
He's not like I think Jalen Johnson does more like

1589
01:13:46,199 --> 01:13:47,359
big man things.

1590
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's more of a Yeah, he's more of like

1591
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:51,560
a combo big to me than he would be a

1592
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:52,319
combo forward.

1593
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's yeah, more four than three. I guess

1594
01:13:55,079 --> 01:13:57,079
even in so far we'll talk about that at some point,

1595
01:13:57,119 --> 01:13:59,039
and in so far as there is a distinction between

1596
01:13:59,079 --> 01:14:02,760
those spots anymore. Yeah, I don't, I don't know where you.

1597
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god?

1598
01:14:04,079 --> 01:14:04,199
Speaker 2: Is it?

1599
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:05,560
Speaker 1: Is it Al Horford?

1600
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 2: That's like the part in the centers though Horford's like

1601
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:13,159
great against a big guy defender like Sam's not right

1602
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:16,800
because Sam's more like swoopy, whereas Johnson's very explosive.

1603
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 1: Oh I don't, I don't love this name. But is

1604
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,640
there like Miles Bridges vibes to it?

1605
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:27,079
Speaker 2: I mean athleticism. I think I think Johnson is just

1606
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:30,520
like his passing and like his i Q is way higher,

1607
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,199
I feel like in terms of how he sees the

1608
01:14:32,239 --> 01:14:34,720
floor offensively than than Bridges. But yeah, it's he's a

1609
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,199
tough I mean it's almost a good thing. Like he

1610
01:14:37,319 --> 01:14:39,359
does have a lot of the like refined like hard

1611
01:14:39,399 --> 01:14:42,319
to teach. Does he understand what's happening out there? Can

1612
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:44,239
he read the floor? And then he has just you

1613
01:14:44,319 --> 01:14:47,479
know what letter grade are we giving his athleticism. It's

1614
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:49,920
at least a flat a like that's a that's a

1615
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,960
tough combo to deal with as a defense. What do

1616
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,520
you think is the swing skill for him if he's

1617
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:57,640
going to be the All Star All NBA type.

1618
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,279
Speaker 1: Is it just the does it have to be kind

1619
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:02,199
of the pull up or self created jumper? Is it

1620
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:05,000
just you get threes up in higher volume, but like

1621
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:07,600
if he's gonna hit them, they'll be set maybe in transition,

1622
01:15:08,199 --> 01:15:11,159
but he has threes a higher clip and with higher volume.

1623
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 2: I'd say you could go two ways. One is when

1624
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,600
he's running high pick and rolls, he's a threat, like

1625
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,840
you can't go under, Like he's gonna pull up and

1626
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,399
shoot that three I think would be a huge swing

1627
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:25,520
skill for him. Or he becomes just like an ace

1628
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,159
foul drawer, where like he gets downhill and he's got

1629
01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:30,119
all this craft. I don't know that he's got that yet,

1630
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:32,399
and guys that athletic often don't need to develop it

1631
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:34,880
until later. But like the two ways to either just

1632
01:15:35,039 --> 01:15:38,119
the efficiency thing like and how you force defenses to

1633
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:40,000
do stuff they don't want to. Can you draw can

1634
01:15:40,079 --> 01:15:42,640
he get to the line nine times a game? Or

1635
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:44,840
can he pull up over high pick and rolls and

1636
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,319
shoot threes? So you can't go under. I would cite

1637
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:47,720
those two.

1638
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,239
Speaker 1: Probably, you know what, probably doesn't get sighted enough with him.

1639
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:51,720
I was noticing when I was digging a little bit

1640
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,039
into this, this is really just like his second season

1641
01:15:55,079 --> 01:15:56,319
of playing actual minutes.

1642
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the other thing, Like there might be a

1643
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,199
lot runway that we're not really appreciating here.

1644
01:16:03,079 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: So I would agree with probably all NBA. It's tough

1645
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,359
for me to get to, but I won't rule it

1646
01:16:08,399 --> 01:16:10,600
out again. After the passing leaves that he's made year

1647
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:11,159
over year.

1648
01:16:11,319 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 2: We're talking ceiling. I think all NBA is we're gonna

1649
01:16:14,039 --> 01:16:16,640
We're gonna discuss him in all NBA stuff at some point.

1650
01:16:18,359 --> 01:16:20,359
This from Matt Chan I like this one too. Should

1651
01:16:20,359 --> 01:16:23,279
the Nuggets try a new Nicole Jokic strategy? And I

1652
01:16:23,319 --> 01:16:26,039
gotta find the longer question because he's asking, do you

1653
01:16:26,079 --> 01:16:27,159
have the longer questions?

1654
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,399
Speaker 1: It's from Austin. I actually messed that up, Austin. Yeah,

1655
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:34,159
sorry with the insane plus minus difference when Yokic is

1656
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:35,920
off the floor, Should the Nuggets try the strategy of

1657
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,920
any time he's out, the offense is run like the

1658
01:16:39,159 --> 01:16:41,600
end of game, run the clock down every possession, use

1659
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,720
the full twenty four seconds and then use a timeout,

1660
01:16:44,039 --> 01:16:46,760
giving Yokic to the biggest break possible, ultimately not playing

1661
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,399
fast enough to swing the game too much.

1662
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I gotta try something. You gotta figure out

1663
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,439
how to do so. I think, like I do love

1664
01:16:56,199 --> 01:16:59,760
like immediate timeout, like one possession timeout after he leaves

1665
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,880
the game. Just burn one, use your challenge right after that,

1666
01:17:03,199 --> 01:17:05,159
just burn it on a ridiculous oh you know, hopefully

1667
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:07,520
not a place so ridiculous that it gets overturned right away.

1668
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:10,000
But get him another commercial break. I think you could

1669
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,720
try all kinds of stuff, but like full court pressure

1670
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:15,840
so the other offense gets into their offense at like

1671
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:18,960
you know, fourteen on the clock or whatever, you make

1672
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,079
them burn some time and have a longer possession there

1673
01:17:22,199 --> 01:17:23,279
What else? What else you got?

1674
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that, that's I guess I haven't really

1675
01:17:26,319 --> 01:17:30,479
considered it that. But don't you sort of need wouldn't

1676
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:33,199
you sort of need players who can at least somewhat

1677
01:17:33,239 --> 01:17:36,680
play that style and in the non Yolkic units, I mean,

1678
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,760
especially the makeup of the current Nuggets. So you're kind

1679
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:41,439
of just saying, like, this is not a strategy you

1680
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,600
employ if Russell Westbrook is going to play any non

1681
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:44,399
yolkic minutes.

1682
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 2: Right, Well, what's the difference. All you're trying to do

1683
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,560
is make is maybe.

1684
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,640
Speaker 1: Trying to tell Russell Westbrook to like go at half

1685
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:53,600
speed to blow it down.

1686
01:17:54,279 --> 01:17:58,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you do that and you uh

1687
01:17:59,199 --> 01:18:02,800
get you plant fans that spill drinks courtside all the time,

1688
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,760
so there's delays to clean them up. I think that's

1689
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:07,960
probably the way you go. Yeah, I don't know, Like

1690
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,039
it is definitely you could game it a little bit.

1691
01:18:11,359 --> 01:18:14,239
In all seriousness, you definitely could like use a timeout

1692
01:18:14,279 --> 01:18:17,560
that you wouldn't otherwise use to just make his two

1693
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,079
minutes off the floor actually be you know, ten or

1694
01:18:21,119 --> 01:18:24,119
eight or something. But in terms of style of play, like,

1695
01:18:25,239 --> 01:18:26,840
I don't know, if you slow it down, all the

1696
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:28,720
numbers say that the later end of the shot clock

1697
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:30,920
you go, the less likely you are to have an

1698
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,680
efficient shot. So like, are you giving back too much

1699
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:38,279
efficiency if you're you know, deliberately running it down? And

1700
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:40,800
I would argue in a lot of cases that like

1701
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:44,199
your defense, then if you're missing a ton of shots,

1702
01:18:44,319 --> 01:18:46,000
regardless of how late it is in the shot clock,

1703
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:48,640
it's going to be harder to get back and you're

1704
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,039
giving that offense like the other offense will be given

1705
01:18:51,159 --> 01:18:53,479
opportunities to push the pace. I guess that's where you

1706
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:59,079
get into intentionally fouling. But now you're banking on the

1707
01:18:59,119 --> 01:19:01,640
fact that we're gonna win in the kolok minutes by

1708
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:05,319
enough that you're invariably gonna lose those minutes, and say,

1709
01:19:05,399 --> 01:19:07,640
like by by how many? So if we're allowing to

1710
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,039
Kolokic to let's just say nikoloach is allowed to rest

1711
01:19:10,079 --> 01:19:14,520
in two like floor time, like for two minute bursts,

1712
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,319
like in terms of actual gameplay time, how even if

1713
01:19:18,359 --> 01:19:22,239
you employ like the most sloggiest strategy, how many points

1714
01:19:22,279 --> 01:19:23,920
are you losing each of those stretches.

1715
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,119
Speaker 1: By at least? Right?

1716
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

1717
01:19:30,399 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 1: That's a lot to overcome.

1718
01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:35,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking that, like macro terms, should

1719
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:40,119
your should the strategy be to increase variance as much

1720
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:42,239
as possible when he's off the floor, So like I

1721
01:19:42,239 --> 01:19:45,159
don't know, only shoot threes for example, or should it?

1722
01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:47,319
Because then it's like, I don't know, maybe that gives

1723
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:49,960
you the chance that every third night you're gonna win

1724
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,159
those minutes, which like as it is now, you lose

1725
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:54,840
them every night, or and then you when you lose

1726
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,079
those minutes, you really lose those minutes, like you lose

1727
01:19:57,119 --> 01:20:00,960
them worse or should it be we are basically like

1728
01:20:01,279 --> 01:20:03,720
only gonna try to get to the basket and generate

1729
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:08,039
free throws, so the time goes slower. We're you know,

1730
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:11,319
the free throws are super high expected value, but like

1731
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,359
you're never gonna like blow a team out by just

1732
01:20:13,399 --> 01:20:16,199
getting to the line, you know, over and over. So

1733
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:19,199
I don't know, you could go either way. I still

1734
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:21,600
think you should just have the cheat and just have

1735
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:24,159
like the shot clock malfunction, so you have five stoppages

1736
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:24,760
while he's out.

1737
01:20:25,159 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 1: Now would you trust this is the other way? Well,

1738
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:30,239
this is not. This is another thing to consider. What

1739
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:35,680
about playing all four the other four starters without Yokic

1740
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,039
more and having Yokic try to lift up what would

1741
01:20:38,039 --> 01:20:41,640
be some of your worst units otherwise, which we haven't so, like,

1742
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,479
Jokic has played seventeen possessions this year without the other

1743
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,079
four starters on the floor, so it's not something that

1744
01:20:47,199 --> 01:20:51,800
Denver necessarily goes to. But like Denver has lineups, like

1745
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:53,359
the one of the most used lineup that has those

1746
01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:55,319
four without Yokich is a plus eighteen points. Per one

1747
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:57,479
hundred possessions and so that might be a way too

1748
01:20:58,039 --> 01:21:00,640
are you then compromising too much of the Yoki minutes though?

1749
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,840
Which is stupid? I'd like because I could very much

1750
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:09,520
see So what's that line up? It would be Jokic, Watson, Westbrook,

1751
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:14,000
Strather and then like who's we're subbing in? What? Like

1752
01:21:14,199 --> 01:21:16,760
hunter Tyson? I don't want to see Shares doing that

1753
01:21:17,119 --> 01:21:20,359
is a Trey Alexander? Who am I forgetting nause? I

1754
01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:23,000
mean well, I mean their nuggets are gonna play DeAndre

1755
01:21:23,119 --> 01:21:26,720
Jordan before they play nase by looking at hunter Tyson there, Yeah,

1756
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,600
that's a that's a heavy lift on Jokic's part, But

1757
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:32,920
that might be something I'd be willing to go to.

1758
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:36,960
Like which which approach would you prefer?

1759
01:21:37,319 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 2: That's really interesting because like that gets back to are

1760
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,640
you Are you gaining enough in those minutes to offset

1761
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,199
what you might give back in the other subset of minutes? Right?

1762
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 1: Like if you're not, that's just gonna make Nicole Yakach's case.

1763
01:21:52,319 --> 01:21:54,359
Speaker 2: He's gonna hate Yeah, right, he's gonna hate life on

1764
01:21:54,399 --> 01:21:56,199
the courts, Like where are all these we're all my guys?

1765
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:57,159
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1766
01:21:57,279 --> 01:22:01,079
Speaker 2: I think maybe you can make it so that like

1767
01:22:01,239 --> 01:22:04,640
if Yokic is not on the floor, Murray and Gordon

1768
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,239
are period or something, you know, like you could sort

1769
01:22:07,239 --> 01:22:09,600
of split the difference. And so like I don't know

1770
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:10,560
what they looking now.

1771
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:16,039
Speaker 1: So those four have played it's as thirteen possessions without

1772
01:22:16,159 --> 01:22:19,279
Jokic on the court, and they that even at rat A.

1773
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:25,560
Speaker 2: So it's just an improvement. Although like I mean, it

1774
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,039
matters for the regular season record for sure, because there

1775
01:22:29,079 --> 01:22:31,159
are just games that they lose because they lose the

1776
01:22:31,239 --> 01:22:34,720
Yokic minutes to a to a more significant degree than

1777
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,720
they win. They lose the non Yokic minutes to a

1778
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:41,079
worse extent than they win the Jokic minutes. But like,

1779
01:22:42,199 --> 01:22:45,760
isn't it isn't it like as a playoff issue, isn't

1780
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,479
just knowing that you're having Jokic and the other starters

1781
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:50,479
and like maybe one or two subs in like you're

1782
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,319
always great and he's gonna play more in the playoffs.

1783
01:22:53,359 --> 01:22:56,079
So like, are how about this? Are we overblowing the

1784
01:22:56,119 --> 01:22:59,640
significance of this problem from the Nuggets perspective? Like is

1785
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:00,199
this no?

1786
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: Because look at what happened during the playoffs to them

1787
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,159
in that Minnesota series. You could argue that they blew

1788
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:06,800
the lead in the final game, but like they got

1789
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,279
into the deficit in the first place in that series,

1790
01:23:09,319 --> 01:23:12,800
and it was just when their only outlet felt like

1791
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:15,279
it has to be Nikola Jokic or the Nikoli Joki

1792
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:18,880
Jamal Murray two man game. Like, that's a real issue

1793
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,920
I think from a minute's management perspective in rotation. Okay, Like,

1794
01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:24,479
I guess maybe we could be overblowing it, But do

1795
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:29,199
you think they have enough optionality within their best units

1796
01:23:29,279 --> 01:23:30,880
now to where you can view it that way? And

1797
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,560
I guess it's a different top lineup than it would

1798
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,840
have been last year just because kcp's not involved in

1799
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,920
the equation. So do you trust Brown more defensively in

1800
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,279
the playoffs? Maybe? Do you trust them more as a cutter?

1801
01:23:42,319 --> 01:23:44,039
You certainly don't trust the more as a three point shooter.

1802
01:23:44,119 --> 01:23:45,560
Maybe you trust them more the handle the ball.

1803
01:23:46,119 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating, it is because you would think it's

1804
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:51,319
tempting to say, like, well, you're just like moving the

1805
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,039
numbers to either side of the equal sign and ultimately

1806
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:57,239
the Nuggets just are are what they are, like regardless

1807
01:23:57,239 --> 01:23:59,880
of how you deal with the Jokic on versus a

1808
01:24:00,039 --> 01:24:01,920
off minutes. But I don't I think we know that's

1809
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,199
not true. I think we know that like certain combinations

1810
01:24:04,359 --> 01:24:07,239
just work better, Like there are cases where you know

1811
01:24:07,399 --> 01:24:10,399
the sum is more than the whole, is more than

1812
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:11,880
the sum of the parts, like if you can just

1813
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,039
push the right buttons and get the right combos out there.

1814
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:16,840
So I do think it's certainly worth just like I

1815
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,880
don't know, I guess what I have. I strongly suspect

1816
01:24:20,399 --> 01:24:22,560
Mike Malone and the Nuggets have thought about this a lot,

1817
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,279
and I just tried to figure out, like how to

1818
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:28,000
split this up. Maybe they haven't, but like you would

1819
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:30,439
think they'd be experimenting like crazy to see, like how

1820
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:33,199
can we just sort of bring both of these extremes

1821
01:24:33,239 --> 01:24:34,119
closer to the middle.

1822
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:40,079
Speaker 1: They've probably been more experimental this season, but predominantly I

1823
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:42,640
guess like they've kind of skewed towards almost like the

1824
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:46,600
other extreme, where it's almost these hockey style lineups.

1825
01:24:46,279 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: Dock rivers, clippers, like five in five out right, and so.

1826
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: It's there probably needs to have they ever struck, do

1827
01:24:53,039 --> 01:24:58,720
you think like the right balance of Okay, maybe we'll

1828
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,399
just make sure that three stars are on the court

1829
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,760
when Nicole Jokic isn't at all times have they ever

1830
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:07,000
committed to that? Enough is something that I think could

1831
01:25:07,079 --> 01:25:11,720
be up for debate, And I just because I really

1832
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:15,279
do think, like so the strategy I outline probably works

1833
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,960
or has a has a better chance of working if

1834
01:25:20,239 --> 01:25:23,359
your backup center has a pulse, because like you could

1835
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:25,680
view Gordon, I guess as the five in that scenario,

1836
01:25:26,279 --> 01:25:28,720
but like when you're going to all four of those,

1837
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,239
well you're putting what Sharich as you're five? Is like

1838
01:25:32,319 --> 01:25:33,279
it's DeAndre Jordan or.

1839
01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 2: Zeke already out right at that point.

1840
01:25:37,199 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 1: And I'm looking this season, so with Jokic off the

1841
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,119
court and at least three so we said three starters

1842
01:25:43,239 --> 01:25:47,840
right of Gordon, Murray, Porter and Brown on the court,

1843
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:51,920
the Nuggets have actually have they lost the No, they

1844
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,560
have a plus sixteen point seven net rating. It's only

1845
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,359
been eighty eight minutes. But maybe is that a better

1846
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:00,560
balance they need to strike Is that you're skew a

1847
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:02,800
lot of starters towards without and I guess you dig

1848
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:04,560
into most of their lineups, well when do they not

1849
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:08,880
have at least three like starters on the court without Jokic.

1850
01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:11,279
But it does it does happen. I guess when you're

1851
01:26:11,319 --> 01:26:12,880
looking at the share, their wine ups are all over

1852
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,800
the place this season. That's why it's making it so tough,

1853
01:26:15,079 --> 01:26:15,239
is it?

1854
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,279
Speaker 2: Is it just like here's here's the Maybe they should

1855
01:26:18,359 --> 01:26:20,720
keep this in mind, like when talking about well, well,

1856
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:22,880
I think we do have a Nuggets trade question at

1857
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,920
some point. Here a lot of Nuggets stuff so far today.

1858
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,000
Like what if you just had like a Lou Williams type,

1859
01:26:29,279 --> 01:26:32,039
like from you know, high end Lou Williams, where it's

1860
01:26:32,079 --> 01:26:35,079
just like he just runs your second unit and you

1861
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:37,640
might lose those minutes, but it'll be close, and he

1862
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:39,760
will get to the foul line a ton and slow

1863
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,359
the game down that way, Like just like a guy

1864
01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:45,399
who clearly is not a starter, Like the idea of

1865
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:48,159
Bones Highland, like what Bones Highland was maybe supposed to

1866
01:26:48,239 --> 01:26:50,359
have been for them. I feel like could solve a

1867
01:26:50,399 --> 01:26:53,560
lot of this where the margins are close, you probably

1868
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:56,640
lose those minutes, but you're gonna score a little bit

1869
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:02,079
and you have like you know, more time, time goes

1870
01:27:02,079 --> 01:27:04,720
slower because you're generating foul shots or whatever, and like

1871
01:27:05,119 --> 01:27:07,079
he's just kind of an offense under himself, like that

1872
01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:09,800
type of player might actually like Westbrook's not that guy,

1873
01:27:10,079 --> 01:27:13,039
but like someone like that, like your Jordan cle your

1874
01:27:13,119 --> 01:27:16,760
quint essential like bench chucker. I think actually makes more

1875
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,880
sense on Denver than almost any other team.

1876
01:27:19,199 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: I am looking. And so this is just addingcdotally speaking,

1877
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:24,920
I was wrong. Way more of their most used lineups

1878
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,039
without Yo Kic only have two or fewer starters than

1879
01:27:28,039 --> 01:27:30,000
I thought they would have this year, And so maybe

1880
01:27:30,119 --> 01:27:31,880
that's the I don't even know if it's the low

1881
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:33,560
hanging fruit, but it's you need to finagal it that

1882
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:35,720
way to where there's three starters on the court at

1883
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,079
all times when Yo Kich is it.

1884
01:27:38,119 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 2: We've given I think literally every possible option for them

1885
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,039
to go after, so they should just once a week

1886
01:27:43,119 --> 01:27:43,760
try each one.

1887
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 1: Oh question, just for grants, I'm gonna have to read

1888
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:50,279
this one too, comes from be Rich ATX. What former

1889
01:27:50,399 --> 01:27:53,119
Warrior that has to be retired would fix this year's

1890
01:27:53,159 --> 01:27:56,000
offensive challenges? Is there a comparable player somewhere in the

1891
01:27:56,079 --> 01:27:58,000
league that the Dubs could trade for?

1892
01:27:59,039 --> 01:28:01,520
Speaker 2: So the second part is really hard because we've we

1893
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:03,399
just know that there aren't a lot of If you.

1894
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: Like the insinuation with the photo here that Kevin Durant

1895
01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:06,880
is retired.

1896
01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:10,359
Speaker 2: Well, Kevin Durant would help the Warriors. I think there's

1897
01:28:10,399 --> 01:28:13,079
some historical present I don't know. I mean it might

1898
01:28:13,159 --> 01:28:15,359
go okay, go it go okay for a while, and

1899
01:28:15,399 --> 01:28:16,399
then it wouldn't go okay.

1900
01:28:17,039 --> 01:28:18,720
Speaker 1: I just don't know if he's a big enough upgrade

1901
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:20,079
over the Jonathan Comingo minutes.

1902
01:28:20,279 --> 01:28:24,760
Speaker 2: Probably not, Probably not, And he's so old. Yeah upside baby,

1903
01:28:25,039 --> 01:28:27,239
So it's like, what you what you're looking for is

1904
01:28:27,319 --> 01:28:30,279
we've discussed, is someone that can do some shock creation

1905
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,960
carry a heavy offensive load, ideally within the war system

1906
01:28:35,039 --> 01:28:37,119
the Warriors want to play. So we're just like really

1907
01:28:37,279 --> 01:28:41,119
thin slicing to a crazy degree that that can also

1908
01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:44,640
close with Steph Like that'd be your ideal trade candidate.

1909
01:28:46,359 --> 01:28:50,359
So as you're going back through previous glory years of

1910
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:53,800
the Warriors, which don't exist like prior to twenty thirteen,

1911
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:59,600
really you go through, Okay, so who Monte Ellis, Jason Richardson,

1912
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:02,720
like Anton Jamison, guys that had all scored twenty plus

1913
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,640
were offense first guys, very different players. Obviously, none of

1914
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:11,399
them were like efficient and or self sufficient as scorers

1915
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:14,319
enough to like really fit that. So if I can't

1916
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,359
use like Wilt Chamberlain or Rick Berry as my as.

1917
01:29:17,279 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 1: My as my Will Chamberlin, and then the comp could

1918
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:22,239
just be Jokic. There you go.

1919
01:29:24,119 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 2: A couple like so the guys I was like just

1920
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:29,399
imagining who would be helpful. I don't know if this

1921
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,680
is cheating, but peak Andrew Boget, like Bucks Andrew Bogut,

1922
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:39,399
who was like a ninetieth percentile assist percentage guy. As

1923
01:29:39,399 --> 01:29:42,600
an offensive player like you, he kind of was. You

1924
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:46,159
would look at him as like Sabonis except an all

1925
01:29:46,319 --> 01:29:49,319
defense like DPOY candidate before he got hurt like that

1926
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:53,159
is like Boget man, Like look at his offensive footage

1927
01:29:53,199 --> 01:29:56,039
before he got hurt. He was unbelievable. So maybe he's

1928
01:29:56,079 --> 01:29:58,920
your facilitator and shot creator in a very different way,

1929
01:29:59,159 --> 01:30:03,199
like Chris Mullen. I mean, not a super high self

1930
01:30:03,319 --> 01:30:06,039
generated guy, but averaged twenty five a game, like several

1931
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:09,000
years in a row. He's kind of the Clay analog.

1932
01:30:09,079 --> 01:30:13,159
I guess maybe Tim Hardaway, Baron Davis. Like those guys

1933
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:16,800
like Baron Davis, I like a little more, just because

1934
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:20,079
he's bigger and like physically could defend, even though he

1935
01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:22,960
never really did. I think my ultimate pick though, oh,

1936
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:26,119
a couple other ones. Gilbert Arenas, remember that he was

1937
01:30:26,199 --> 01:30:29,920
on the Warriors. There's your shot creator kind of was

1938
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:36,760
like hardened before Harden, Jordan Poole, he's not retired. He

1939
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,560
filled that role pretty well. I think it's Mitch Richmond, though,

1940
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,119
who's like a pretty deep cut and really his best

1941
01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:46,079
years were not on the Warriors, but like he was

1942
01:30:46,119 --> 01:30:49,359
traded when he was twenty five to the Kings, makes

1943
01:30:49,399 --> 01:30:52,520
six straight All Star Games, five straight All NBA twenty

1944
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,760
plus every year, like just self sufficient enough and big

1945
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,000
enough to really be a two next to Steph. It's

1946
01:30:59,079 --> 01:31:02,079
probably him. I don't know who Mitch Richmond is in

1947
01:31:02,119 --> 01:31:06,079
today's NBA. So, like, I think Zach Levine comes closest

1948
01:31:06,199 --> 01:31:08,359
to like the type of player that we're talking about,

1949
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,000
where scalable shooting can get his own, is a good

1950
01:31:13,159 --> 01:31:17,640
enough passer to generate a few things for others. But

1951
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:21,479
like that's just I mean really like Shrewder actually is

1952
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:25,640
to you. You talked very you know, in great depth

1953
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,239
about this, Like he is like the type of guy

1954
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:31,119
that you needed to add to this offense. I just

1955
01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:34,079
don't know if he's if his overall level of quality

1956
01:31:34,359 --> 01:31:36,840
is enough to give them what they need, and I

1957
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,720
don't I know, I know you're well aware, like he

1958
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:43,359
may not be like the end goal type of acquisition

1959
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,800
for to solve this problem. But yeah, it's it's it's

1960
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:48,960
easy to say, like, oh, this guy would be good,

1961
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,319
but I don't know who the present like analog to

1962
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:54,479
a lot of the name really any of the names

1963
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:57,039
I mentioned who's actually available though would make sense.

1964
01:31:57,079 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: Actually available, but I was gonna be people seem to

1965
01:31:59,039 --> 01:32:00,520
be pushing towards this route. I don't know what. He

1966
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,680
definitely wouldn't be the Richmond Bucket, maybe more so Gilbert Arenas.

1967
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,279
Speaker 2: But de Aaron Fox, Oh my god, I mean like that, Yeah,

1968
01:32:07,279 --> 01:32:09,960
I'll take dearon Fox. Deeron Fox, I guess maybe is

1969
01:32:10,199 --> 01:32:13,600
your I mean, he's just probably better than Baron Davis

1970
01:32:14,079 --> 01:32:18,920
ever was. But uh yeah, I like I I mean,

1971
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:22,039
he wears Curry's shoes. Do we have an in there?

1972
01:32:22,359 --> 01:32:25,920
He's the only other Curry brand athlete and this guy is.

1973
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 1: Not available, But like I would view darn Fox as

1974
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,640
more untouchable than him, even though I know that like

1975
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:32,680
some Kings fans are massa kiss and have already gone

1976
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:34,640
down that rabbit hole. Yeah, I don't think he fits

1977
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,079
into any under any umbrell of a player you just describe.

1978
01:32:37,119 --> 01:32:39,319
But I've mentioned him before LaMelo Ball.

1979
01:32:40,119 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I mean talk about creating shots like that's

1980
01:32:43,399 --> 01:32:48,760
I mean, LaMelo has a little I was Gilbert Reinas

1981
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:51,159
was not the facilitator LaMelo is, but in the sort

1982
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:53,560
of like playing like he doesn't give a shit what

1983
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:58,039
happens all the time. Like that's very Gilbert Reinas. Uh yeah,

1984
01:32:58,119 --> 01:33:01,600
I think. I mean you're you're talking about point guards though,

1985
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:03,800
really right, like you though both of those guys you've

1986
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:08,840
mentioned are straight up point guards. Is he a real

1987
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:09,960
point guard? I guess he is.

1988
01:33:10,039 --> 01:33:11,920
Speaker 1: He can only guard I mean, what is a real

1989
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:14,439
point guard? Well, yeah, I talk about the question that's

1990
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:18,159
coming up about positions. But yeah, I'm looking at you know, yeah,

1991
01:33:18,199 --> 01:33:19,840
you don't get Denis Shruterer if you think you're gonna

1992
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,479
get LaMelo Ball. But this team needs to drive offense

1993
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,239
independent of Steph Curry's like, yeah, that's where my mind

1994
01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:26,880
is gonna graviticate You're not wrong.

1995
01:33:27,039 --> 01:33:29,119
Speaker 2: LaMelo Ball would help. I would I would agree with that.

1996
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,199
Speaker 1: What about Fred van Vliet that count We're still dealing

1997
01:33:32,239 --> 01:33:34,479
with the point guard vein there I get so.

1998
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 2: One of the things that I think I and everybody

1999
01:33:37,039 --> 01:33:40,119
was concerned about is is the the idea of shrewder

2000
01:33:40,199 --> 01:33:42,159
with Steph because it's like, man, you're small in the

2001
01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:44,960
back court. Neither of those guys is great guarding up

2002
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:48,520
van Fleet. Just Vamily It's a better defender probably than

2003
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:50,560
either of those guys, just because he's so aggressive. But

2004
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:52,760
like you're so small with van Fleet.

2005
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,239
Speaker 1: But he's been targeted more this year, which is probably

2006
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,680
one he's small and getting older, but also Houston just

2007
01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:59,199
probably has no good up. But it's like I would

2008
01:33:59,279 --> 01:34:00,319
like to get a target rate.

2009
01:34:01,279 --> 01:34:03,079
Speaker 2: I guess you put Jalen Green too, but he's been

2010
01:34:03,119 --> 01:34:03,880
better defensively.

2011
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:06,560
Speaker 1: That's a good question though, So what did you settle

2012
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,359
on as the names as like a guy that they

2013
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:12,520
that is, if you mentioned Andrew Bogett, is that like

2014
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:14,760
did you mention Vos then if you were looking for

2015
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,159
the I don't think he's not especially defensively, but.

2016
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,159
Speaker 2: Bog It defensively or as a passer. I was just,

2017
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,159
you know, like every three months or so, I just

2018
01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:25,800
sit down and think to myself, like nobody really knows

2019
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:27,760
how good Andrew Boget used to be and I just

2020
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:30,199
wanted to broadcast that feeling r.

2021
01:34:30,319 --> 01:34:33,079
Speaker 1: W three doesn't fit that mold. Defensively, he might certainly

2022
01:34:33,199 --> 01:34:36,960
versatile enough, but that's not that's not fixing the Doves offense.

2023
01:34:37,319 --> 01:34:40,560
Speaker 2: No, I mean, honestly, of the actual available options, shrewder

2024
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:42,520
is really about as well as they could have done

2025
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:44,479
at the moment. I think.

2026
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:47,600
Speaker 1: Our next question you want to take this one.

2027
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:51,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is from inertiate. I would love to hear

2028
01:34:51,359 --> 01:34:53,359
you and Grant define what you mean when you call

2029
01:34:53,399 --> 01:34:55,640
a player a wing and why it is better than

2030
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:59,399
guard slash forward in describing a position. I think I

2031
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:03,279
want to read the whole thing here, he says. I've

2032
01:35:03,319 --> 01:35:05,760
heard guys like the Anthony Meltain and Jabari Smith both

2033
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,239
described as wings this season, so it seems like the

2034
01:35:09,359 --> 01:35:11,600
terms being used for any basketball player between six to

2035
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:16,640
one and seven feet not an unfair criticism. How would

2036
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:17,479
you define a wing?

2037
01:35:18,199 --> 01:35:20,079
Speaker 1: I tend to think when I think of a wing,

2038
01:35:20,279 --> 01:35:22,680
I think it was someone capable of playing at least

2039
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,159
two of the positions between the two and the four,

2040
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,880
and I prefer when I'm talking combo wings. A lot

2041
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,199
of the time I'm talking about the two three. Jason

2042
01:35:31,239 --> 01:35:34,079
Tatum is a combo wing. Jalen Brown is a combo wing.

2043
01:35:35,119 --> 01:35:37,960
I think if you're talking about like true wings, like

2044
01:35:38,039 --> 01:35:39,439
maybe I view that more as a two in the

2045
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:42,279
three because you're technically scaling up. I don't necessarily look

2046
01:35:42,279 --> 01:35:44,439
at it as size. But when I do say guard

2047
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:47,399
or forward, I immediately think more of players who can

2048
01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:50,399
only play one position. Julius Randall's a forward. You can't

2049
01:35:50,399 --> 01:35:52,279
play them at the five, you can't play them at

2050
01:35:52,279 --> 01:35:54,520
the three, and so forward to me almost means four

2051
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:57,319
at this point. Guard I'm probably a little bit more

2052
01:35:57,359 --> 01:36:00,399
fungible with, because you could be the line are blurred

2053
01:36:00,399 --> 01:36:03,000
more than ever between on ball guard and off ball guard.

2054
01:36:04,039 --> 01:36:08,760
Wing to me is like a descriptor of versatility. Is

2055
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:09,800
how I kind of look at it.

2056
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 2: I would echo a lot of that. I think, I

2057
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,600
go a wing. A wing is almost defined by like

2058
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:18,760
what it's not. It's not a point guard and it's

2059
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:20,680
not a center, so it's like we know we're in

2060
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:23,880
that middle ground between there. I wouldn't describe, just to

2061
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:26,239
use the examples, I don't know that I would describe

2062
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:29,199
the Anthony Meltain or Jubari Smith as wings. I think

2063
01:36:30,039 --> 01:36:31,039
Smith I think a lot.

2064
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,399
Speaker 1: Of people look at their defensive roles. Sure that could

2065
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:36,920
be fair. Yeah, I look at their offensive roles, because

2066
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:38,279
you're not calling luga Doanci's a wing?

2067
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:41,760
Speaker 2: No, he's like, what do you call that guy?

2068
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 1: I think God, I was gonna say work. That's interesting

2069
01:36:45,039 --> 01:36:47,279
is that size portion? Because to me, the Anthony Mountain

2070
01:36:47,319 --> 01:36:49,479
is a wing. He's an undersized wing. When I say

2071
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:52,920
like true wing or power wing, I'm thinking of someone

2072
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:56,159
this is like this is such a narrow scope, but

2073
01:36:56,199 --> 01:36:58,479
it's between sixty six and six nine, Like that's who

2074
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:01,399
I understand that's But when I say wing, that's the

2075
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:03,439
size I'm traditionally thinking of where it's like when you

2076
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:06,520
get to the six ' four below area, Okay, Gary Payton,

2077
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,640
the second is garden basically. Or Marcus Smart is a

2078
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:11,720
great example here, what does he six three sixty four?

2079
01:37:12,319 --> 01:37:14,880
He's probably considered a wing when push comes to shove.

2080
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:19,560
But I do have some sort of like size criteria

2081
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,479
that I try to stick to, and if I don't,

2082
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:25,680
I try to mention, well, they're basically an undersized wing.

2083
01:37:26,359 --> 01:37:28,720
I can't believe someone called Jabbari a wing. I didn't.

2084
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:30,359
I have not seen that at all. That's almost like

2085
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:33,560
remember when the Mavericks acquired Grant Williams as their wing stopper.

2086
01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:36,159
That's how I think.

2087
01:37:36,279 --> 01:37:39,279
Speaker 2: In addition, I do think the the height thing is

2088
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:42,640
is needs to be a little more narrowly tailored. So

2089
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:44,479
six six to six ' nine is a good shorthand.

2090
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:46,800
Although you would call Kevin Durant a wing. So there's

2091
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:47,800
acceptance to every.

2092
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:50,720
Speaker 1: Rule problems listed at six to seven, right.

2093
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:53,800
Speaker 2: He's shrinking every year. I also think it's like it's

2094
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,439
a perimeter player, Like we can settle on that, and

2095
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,479
it's probably not the guy running the most pick and

2096
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,920
rolls or bringing the ball over half court most of

2097
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:05,039
the time necessarily Now if you have add right, it

2098
01:38:05,199 --> 01:38:07,399
can be because if you have elite ones like Kawhi

2099
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:10,600
Leonard or or Jason Tatum or Durant to using the

2100
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,399
other Jalen Williams, like these guys are all wings. But

2101
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:17,239
like I think of the wing as not the primary

2102
01:38:17,319 --> 01:38:21,279
play initiator, not a big mostly is on the perimeter

2103
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:25,560
is out there to shoot threes and slash probably, but

2104
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,920
like it is not a banger, you know, like it

2105
01:38:28,199 --> 01:38:31,079
Like I would distinguish it too from like the combo

2106
01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:34,640
forward spot somehow somehow, in my mind, combo forward feels

2107
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,520
different than wing because it excludes guys that are the

2108
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:38,840
two threes, you know one.

2109
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:42,640
Speaker 1: There are good examples like Jalen Johnson's not a makeshift too,

2110
01:38:43,039 --> 01:38:44,840
so he's a combo footward to three. He might be

2111
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:46,479
a comma big because you'd be more inclined to use

2112
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:48,600
him at the five. Yeah, that might be a good example.

2113
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,680
Speaker 2: So like what about someone like Scotty Barnes. Scotty Barnes

2114
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:54,640
I'd say is a forward and not a wing. Maybe

2115
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:56,319
that's because of the you know what I mean. Like,

2116
01:38:56,399 --> 01:38:58,640
but again, here's the here's the bottom line. Positions are

2117
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:00,800
whatever you want to call it.

2118
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:05,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, ultimately there, I do think that the defensive role

2119
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:09,960
probably matters more to the like the wing clarification than

2120
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,239
if you're a guard, just because Luca I consider a

2121
01:39:12,319 --> 01:39:14,920
guard because of his offensive role, like his defensive role,

2122
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,479
would probably say he's a forward, right, and so it's yeah,

2123
01:39:19,239 --> 01:39:21,119
it's it's like, it's so if you're the prime like

2124
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:25,039
so Jason Tatum as an example, if he wasn't if

2125
01:39:25,079 --> 01:39:28,079
he was being stashed defensively, and sometimes he is, but

2126
01:39:28,159 --> 01:39:30,319
it's so that he can be disruptive if he was

2127
01:39:30,359 --> 01:39:33,840
being stashed defensively the role he's playing now on Boston,

2128
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,279
they still might blur the lines of it, like you

2129
01:39:36,399 --> 01:39:38,680
might be more inclined to call him a guard because

2130
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:40,880
he's initiating so much of their offense, but because his

2131
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:44,239
defensive role isn't one of just like, well, I'm defending

2132
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:46,279
like at the point of the tackle the time, or

2133
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:48,319
like Luca, you're gonna move them around like the bigger

2134
01:39:48,399 --> 01:39:50,479
forward to not ask him to do a ton all

2135
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:55,239
the time. But even he like defends, so it's there's

2136
01:39:55,279 --> 01:39:56,520
no one else for it.

2137
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 2: As I think about it is a lot of it

2138
01:39:59,039 --> 01:40:01,319
has to do with ball, Like there's a certain level

2139
01:40:01,359 --> 01:40:03,520
of bulk you have where you can't be a wing anymore.

2140
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:05,520
Speaker 1: Devin Booker can Can he be a wing?

2141
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:11,039
Speaker 2: Yeah? Devin Booker is a wing Okay, although he would

2142
01:40:11,079 --> 01:40:12,840
moonlight as a guard, I would say because of the

2143
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:16,399
playmaking stuff. So he's like, could he be a wing? Ooh,

2144
01:40:17,119 --> 01:40:19,319
that's a that's closer to just being a guard. Don't

2145
01:40:19,359 --> 01:40:20,560
you think I do too.

2146
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,359
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna start naming sons about just you.

2147
01:40:23,399 --> 01:40:25,159
Speaker 2: Know who I kept thinking of as like Gary Trent

2148
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:28,399
or like k CP guys that feel like that's a two.

2149
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:29,720
That's a two, you know.

2150
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like I view KCP is closer to

2151
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:36,640
a wing than Gary Trent Junior, but the size matters

2152
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:38,520
a great What is Gary Trent and KCP are like

2153
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:39,039
six five?

2154
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:42,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, six four six five, I think so, I think

2155
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:46,399
if you're under six three you like like Donovan Mitchell,

2156
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:49,199
to me, is not a wing for till like I think,

2157
01:40:49,279 --> 01:40:51,680
I think there is. There is some kind of height cutoff,

2158
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:55,720
although again it depends on like how you're factoring in

2159
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,960
who they guard, what they actually do on offense, like

2160
01:40:59,079 --> 01:41:01,479
that kind of thing. I don't like the the Morris

2161
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,840
Twins are combo forwards or were uh and then became

2162
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,039
four fives, But for a minute there they were like

2163
01:41:08,119 --> 01:41:11,680
small forwards, but never were they wings if that you know? So, actually,

2164
01:41:12,199 --> 01:41:14,960
like the timeframe you're talking about also factors into what

2165
01:41:15,079 --> 01:41:15,840
you call somebody.

2166
01:41:16,359 --> 01:41:18,680
Speaker 1: I will say the reason why it might and maybe

2167
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:21,199
it's not always better, But why I find it a

2168
01:41:21,279 --> 01:41:23,520
better description than guard forward is because when I think

2169
01:41:23,560 --> 01:41:25,760
of those, when I think of wing, I think of

2170
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,399
up to three positions, and when I think of guard

2171
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:31,199
or forward, I'm generally thinking one to one and like

2172
01:41:31,239 --> 01:41:33,600
even when you said, because Anthony Simons is he's not

2173
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,880
a league guard, but he could play both guard spots.

2174
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:37,479
But like, that's what I'm thinking when I when I

2175
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:39,319
feel when I hear guard.

2176
01:41:39,359 --> 01:41:41,600
Speaker 2: And he's definitely not a wing. Is Shaden Sharp a

2177
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:46,600
wing or is he a guard? That's tbd okay, good coffee.

2178
01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:49,520
You don't know what he does on offense, but like,

2179
01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:52,159
h I think he's more of a guard, right, that's

2180
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:55,399
my inclination too, because it goes to like I would

2181
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:57,479
not want him on a three or a four defensively,

2182
01:41:57,720 --> 01:41:58,279
so that like.

2183
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:03,399
Speaker 1: What is Toomani Kamara Ooh, he's a forward, I would say,

2184
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:05,800
but he's always defending at the point of attack.

2185
01:42:06,119 --> 01:42:08,039
Speaker 2: I know. That's Here's the thing. None of this makes

2186
01:42:08,079 --> 01:42:08,600
any sense.

2187
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:11,319
Speaker 1: What about Denny Avdya, Let's just keep naming blazers. He's

2188
01:42:11,359 --> 01:42:14,079
kind of like the Scotti Barnes one where probably a

2189
01:42:14,159 --> 01:42:15,760
wing because of what he does defensively.

2190
01:42:16,319 --> 01:42:19,399
Speaker 2: I would say he's a wing when he's making thirty

2191
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:21,720
seven percent of his threes, and he's a forward when he's.

2192
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:25,239
Speaker 1: Not tomb forward when he's not yet. Yeah, that's a

2193
01:42:25,359 --> 01:42:28,560
really tough question. I enjoyed it. Though next question comes

2194
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:31,960
from corn Hub. When is the league going to recognize

2195
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:34,479
the untapped potential of the Ivory Towers lineup?

2196
01:42:35,079 --> 01:42:35,199
Speaker 2: Uh?

2197
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 1: So, Christaps Porzingis and Luke Cornette, who grant they have

2198
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:42,600
played twenty eight possessions on the season together. Boston's net

2199
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:45,760
rating during those possessions of plus thirty one point three.

2200
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:47,840
That is good. They were in the one hundredth percentile

2201
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,680
of offensive efficiency one thirty nine point three and the

2202
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:55,560
eighty fifth percentile of defensive efficiency. What's interesting is that

2203
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:58,000
there's been a bunch of these different combinations with them

2204
01:42:58,079 --> 01:43:00,800
on it. None of the units have shot or I

2205
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:02,920
should say very few of the units are shot threes

2206
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:08,079
particularly well. But they've also just basically not allowed. They're

2207
01:43:08,079 --> 01:43:11,359
allowing when Cornette and Porzingis around the court, opponents are

2208
01:43:11,359 --> 01:43:13,600
shooting twenty eight point six percent at the rim.

2209
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:19,359
Speaker 2: That seems good but not for the not for the opponents, No,

2210
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:20,279
I mean for Boston.

2211
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. You can go some value to knowing

2212
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,680
that you can roll this out. I have zero desire

2213
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:28,720
to see it in minutes or like a playoff series

2214
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:29,279
that matters.

2215
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:31,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I would agree with that.

2216
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 1: H do you ideally build out the rest of that

2217
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:35,279
unit is it just has got to be Tatum Brown

2218
01:43:35,319 --> 01:43:36,920
and Derek White and that's just what it needs to

2219
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:39,239
look like, or youre skewing. Oh we need maybe more

2220
01:43:39,279 --> 01:43:41,359
of the shootings, so Peyton Pritchard needs to be sprinkled

2221
01:43:41,399 --> 01:43:41,680
in there.

2222
01:43:43,319 --> 01:43:46,239
Speaker 2: I think I probably go, I mean, what about Sam Hauser.

2223
01:43:46,319 --> 01:43:49,039
We're gonna need We're gonna need some some spacing.

2224
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:51,399
Speaker 1: Just and Drew Peterson a rasure.

2225
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, then then you're going then you're just gonna whitewash,

2226
01:43:54,239 --> 01:43:59,439
which the Celtics could do because of Drew Peterson. I'm

2227
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:03,000
gonna go with Porzingis as my loan big generally speaking,

2228
01:44:03,239 --> 01:44:06,920
and probably just get Tatum Brown, White and Holiday out there.

2229
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,720
Speaker 1: I do you wonder what would be the impetus behind

2230
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:14,600
playing that way? Like unless you have like Al Horford's healthy,

2231
01:44:15,199 --> 01:44:17,840
like you have all your wings, Like what is the impetus?

2232
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:20,239
Just you want to be big and you think that

2233
01:44:20,399 --> 01:44:23,279
you're gonna grab I suppose all the defensive rebounds with

2234
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:25,279
corn and then you just.

2235
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:28,520
Speaker 2: Then you just play Cata over Cornett. Right, if you're

2236
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:31,119
gonna if you're gonna try to be as big as possible, Cada.

2237
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,399
Speaker 1: I'd say there's value, and that the Celtics could do

2238
01:44:33,479 --> 01:44:35,439
it with a straight face if they really want to.

2239
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:40,159
That's kind of the Celtics in a microcosm though, Yeah, right,

2240
01:44:40,319 --> 01:44:42,119
they could do it if they want to roll out that.

2241
01:44:42,119 --> 01:44:43,840
You're gonna say, no, don't do it.

2242
01:44:44,039 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.

2243
01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:48,520
Speaker 1: Maybe the all big lineup, but even that, dal are

2244
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:49,520
they guards or forwards?

2245
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:51,760
Speaker 2: Grant, I think one of at least one of them

2246
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:52,079
is a wing.

2247
01:44:52,199 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 1: I would say, uh, our next question, we're nearing the

2248
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:57,920
end here. You want to make this one?

2249
01:44:58,199 --> 01:45:01,159
Speaker 2: Sure? Uh, this is from Kyle Woodley. What's the worst

2250
01:45:01,239 --> 01:45:03,439
team in the current standings that you think ends up

2251
01:45:03,439 --> 01:45:07,159
winning a playoff game? Well, let's take that first. It's

2252
01:45:07,279 --> 01:45:11,920
got to be Philly, right, I mean the lowest. Yeah,

2253
01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:14,840
if it's actually worse, like if we say I went

2254
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:19,039
Pistons just because I can imagine them, I mean.

2255
01:45:20,319 --> 01:45:22,560
Speaker 1: I he's like trade bait right now.

2256
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:25,560
Speaker 2: No, don't say that it's got to be Philly. If

2257
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:28,159
you're talking about like current standings, who's the lowest that

2258
01:45:28,159 --> 01:45:29,119
could win a playoff game?

2259
01:45:30,079 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 1: Them? Are the Kings to be?

2260
01:45:32,039 --> 01:45:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? But I was just it's got to be an

2261
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:36,239
East team because like the Kings are just actually good.

2262
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:39,319
But yeah, the standings thing, I don't know, San Antonio,

2263
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:42,159
it's I think Philly is the answer. Here, here's the

2264
01:45:42,239 --> 01:45:45,479
real question. What's the worst caffeinated beverage you've consumed?

2265
01:45:46,239 --> 01:45:54,039
Speaker 1: Coffee? I hate coffee. I also tried this, like caffeinated

2266
01:45:54,159 --> 01:45:56,840
protein vodka ones. I think it was what I was like.

2267
01:45:56,960 --> 01:45:59,039
Speaker 2: God, yeah, those words don't go together, sir.

2268
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,359
Speaker 1: And if if you're looking for actual energy drink reviews,

2269
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:04,960
I tend to hate the Have you ever heard of

2270
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:07,920
the brand rain r E A R E I g N.

2271
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:10,680
It's like a pre workout energy thing and it's just

2272
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:15,520
so like syrupy somehow without enough taste or flavor to it.

2273
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:18,840
For me, when I'm going for the energy drink, I

2274
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,479
don't really even I gravitate actually one sitting next to

2275
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:23,479
me right now. I haven't opened it. The ghost this

2276
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:24,680
is not This is not an.

2277
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,159
Speaker 2: Ad boy you wish it was, though. Could you imagine

2278
01:46:27,159 --> 01:46:28,319
getting free energy drinks?

2279
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:31,319
Speaker 1: My heart would eventually stop? And I'm okay with that

2280
01:46:31,399 --> 01:46:33,560
because I'm you're consuming so much of them. But the

2281
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:36,520
Ghosts they make really good, like their energy drinks, especially

2282
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:40,439
like the sour Patch flavors like sour sour warheads, Apple

2283
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:43,199
sour warheads, watermelon, the red berry. They're all spot on.

2284
01:46:43,359 --> 01:46:45,600
So I love that's the best one since someone has

2285
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:47,119
the best one. But the worst, if I had to say,

2286
01:46:47,119 --> 01:46:49,239
the worst one honestly is coffee. That's why I don't

2287
01:46:49,279 --> 01:46:52,640
drink coffee. I've tried a few times in numerous variations,

2288
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:55,960
and I don't like it. I think if I drink coffee,

2289
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:58,119
I just have to drink like straight black coffee, and

2290
01:46:58,239 --> 01:46:59,000
that's what I would need.

2291
01:46:59,319 --> 01:47:01,640
Speaker 2: That's what I do. I think my theory on coffee

2292
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:05,439
is just like it objectively doesn't taste good, but it

2293
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:08,960
has an addictive chemical in it, and you it's all

2294
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:11,680
about the context too, Like you drink it, you know,

2295
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:14,359
nothing's better when it's cold out and you your first

2296
01:47:14,439 --> 01:47:16,439
morning cup, and it's just like you grow to like

2297
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,319
the taste because you grow to like the feeling that

2298
01:47:19,399 --> 01:47:21,560
it gives you more than anything. I think that's like,

2299
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,439
that's how addictive things work, generally speaking. Like I'm surprised.

2300
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,439
I guess if you were into the energy drinks from

2301
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:30,079
the jump and that's where your caffeine comes from, I

2302
01:47:30,159 --> 01:47:33,399
could see not getting into coffee. Ever, I don't know

2303
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:36,279
all the like every energy drink that I've ever had,

2304
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:38,560
like they all just taste sweet to me, and so

2305
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:41,680
that's fine, Like I don't I haven't sampled as broadly

2306
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,359
as you have to, like find is does kombucha have

2307
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:47,720
caffeine in it? Because if so, that garbage is the

2308
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:49,399
worst taste of any kind of beverage.

2309
01:47:49,399 --> 01:47:51,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've ember trying kombucha. I will say,

2310
01:47:52,159 --> 01:47:55,199
if you're good to have an energy drink, like, don't

2311
01:47:55,239 --> 01:47:57,359
gravitate towards the ones that are just loaded with sugar

2312
01:47:57,439 --> 01:47:59,520
on top of everything else that are in there. Like

2313
01:48:00,119 --> 01:48:02,840
that's the I understand, not everything in moderation, but also

2314
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:05,760
none of this is okay. I'm not gonna have a

2315
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:07,920
regular monster. I'm gonna go for a month like that

2316
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:09,920
has like what thirty six grams of sugar or whatever

2317
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:11,760
it is. It's just like, honestly, do you know what

2318
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:15,000
tastes awful I've done? I think they're called Actually don't

2319
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:17,560
know if the name is. I won't even say the name.

2320
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:18,760
But I had them when I was younger. It was

2321
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:21,640
shots of red bull and vodka were disgusting. I did

2322
01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:24,399
like a bunch of them. Anyway, I had a youth.

2323
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:28,000
I had a youth, but I find red bulls disgusting.

2324
01:48:28,079 --> 01:48:33,119
There's likely especially the like the regular ones. Look no, no,

2325
01:48:33,239 --> 01:48:33,560
thank you.

2326
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 2: I mean I couldn't tell you the last time I

2327
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:37,439
had a red bull, But I have no problem with

2328
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:38,439
how a red bull tastes.

2329
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:42,920
Speaker 1: Have you ever had? Our sponsor goes you should. They

2330
01:48:43,039 --> 01:48:46,720
gotta be everywhere right now, I recommend trying the red

2331
01:48:47,039 --> 01:48:49,239
or the sour apple. Want to get not get you hooked,

2332
01:48:49,279 --> 01:48:50,199
but I think you'll enjoy it.

2333
01:48:50,359 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll take that under advisement. Uh A last question

2334
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:56,279
this is for you. Do vampire squids turn into batfish?

2335
01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,159
Speaker 1: They do not. You want to know why, because vampire

2336
01:48:59,239 --> 01:49:01,439
squids can exist said depths of up to three thousand

2337
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:02,439
feet below.

2338
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 2: And I didn't understand this question on several levels. But

2339
01:49:06,119 --> 01:49:07,439
is the vampire squid a real thing?

2340
01:49:08,239 --> 01:49:12,279
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I sent a solicitation out on blue Sky.

2341
01:49:12,399 --> 01:49:13,800
So if you want to follow us on blue Sky,

2342
01:49:14,159 --> 01:49:16,000
which just has fewer ads and it's a better user

2343
01:49:16,079 --> 01:49:18,399
experience than Twitter for us to each their own. I'm

2344
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:20,399
not here to judge. I was like, let's see we

2345
01:49:20,479 --> 01:49:23,119
get some questions from there. Because our discoord users who

2346
01:49:23,159 --> 01:49:26,760
demanded a mail bag, multiple ones. They did not impress

2347
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:29,239
with the number of questions that people sent in, but

2348
01:49:29,279 --> 01:49:31,359
the questions were awesome to those who sent questions in.

2349
01:49:32,279 --> 01:49:36,319
But I said, ask us questions about caffeine, basketball, caffeine consumption.

2350
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:37,520
Speaker 2: Vampire Squid got it.

2351
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 1: So this is life in general.

2352
01:49:39,079 --> 01:49:40,960
Speaker 2: They're just delivering what was requested here.

2353
01:49:41,000 --> 01:49:43,039
Speaker 1: I got it. Yeah, I mean Kyle Woodley checked all

2354
01:49:43,039 --> 01:49:46,359
the boxes except for question about life. I think of

2355
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,439
one submitter, was it Kyle or it might be another

2356
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:51,039
one coming up said they had life figured out, so

2357
01:49:51,079 --> 01:49:53,000
they didn't need to ask a question. Which hat tip

2358
01:49:53,079 --> 01:49:55,560
to whoever. I was like, figure it out. I'll read

2359
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:59,039
this one to you. Another Vampire Squid one David Bayer Grant.

2360
01:49:59,199 --> 01:50:01,319
Let's start with the bat skipball one. Which two teams,

2361
01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:04,279
one East, one West. Do you think we'll have the

2362
01:50:04,319 --> 01:50:06,359
best record from January first to the end of the

2363
01:50:06,399 --> 01:50:07,119
regular season.

2364
01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:09,920
Speaker 2: So I don't know how to answer this without being

2365
01:50:10,359 --> 01:50:13,840
boring and saying the Celtics and Thunder. I guess that's

2366
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:15,720
like a slight to the Calves because the Calves have

2367
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:18,640
been slightly better than Boston in the East so far.

2368
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:23,000
But like, if you're trying to actually get this question right, like,

2369
01:50:23,079 --> 01:50:26,359
why are you picking anyone besides those two teams?

2370
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:30,079
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you potentially pick? So the Celtics and Calves I

2371
01:50:30,119 --> 01:50:32,199
think are a good example of there's not a lot

2372
01:50:32,279 --> 01:50:34,439
at stake for the last quarter of the season for

2373
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:36,119
them because they're so far ahead of the rest of

2374
01:50:36,159 --> 01:50:38,279
the East, and so maybe it makes sense to say

2375
01:50:38,399 --> 01:50:41,199
a team like that needs to care about seating and

2376
01:50:41,279 --> 01:50:45,760
doesn't have its you know, spot necessarily cemented. And let's

2377
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:49,199
use the Bucks as an example. I mean, they're fifth now,

2378
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:51,560
but like, don't they want to be third? I guess

2379
01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:53,960
they're only one loss off of third, which is wild

2380
01:50:54,079 --> 01:50:57,479
to say I would I think it's easy to just

2381
01:50:57,560 --> 01:50:59,800
say the Celtics and the Thunder and that might just

2382
01:50:59,920 --> 01:51:01,920
end up being the right answers. But if you're caring

2383
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,960
more and the Thunder might have to care too. But

2384
01:51:05,039 --> 01:51:06,840
like in the East specifically, I could see it being

2385
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:09,000
someone not the Caps of the Celtics because those teams

2386
01:51:09,039 --> 01:51:10,439
don't have as much at stake, So.

2387
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:12,800
Speaker 2: I have dark dark horses the wrong term. But like

2388
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:17,520
excluding those boring chalk answers, couldn't the Knicks be one?

2389
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:20,039
If you get a I know, we talked about this

2390
01:51:20,119 --> 01:51:20,560
quite a bit.

2391
01:51:21,159 --> 01:51:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop you right there. Tell me why not

2392
01:51:24,319 --> 01:51:26,199
do you know what the Knicks is defense? I waited

2393
01:51:26,279 --> 01:51:28,399
for games, the number of games played. Do you know

2394
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:33,039
what the Knicks rank defensively against top twenty offenses? Not

2395
01:51:33,159 --> 01:51:34,199
top ten, top twenty.

2396
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:36,760
Speaker 2: I should know this because you posted this somewhere and

2397
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:38,880
I saw it and I forgot. So you tell me.

2398
01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:41,119
Speaker 1: Here are all the teams that are worse than the

2399
01:51:41,159 --> 01:51:45,439
Knicks against top twenty offenses. The Utah Jazz, the Indiana Pacers.

2400
01:51:46,079 --> 01:51:47,880
That's the end of the list. The Knicks ranked twenty eighth.

2401
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:50,760
Speaker 2: And aren't they still well, Okay, you've thin sliced it though,

2402
01:51:51,039 --> 01:51:54,079
so aren't they getting smoked from that Celtics game? Still

2403
01:51:54,359 --> 01:51:54,920
in that case?

2404
01:51:55,079 --> 01:51:57,119
Speaker 1: Or that nilk it down? And I bet you they're

2405
01:51:57,119 --> 01:51:57,880
still bottom five?

2406
01:51:58,119 --> 01:52:00,600
Speaker 2: Okay? I think I would say if you're gonna say

2407
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:03,319
the Knicks, which you've really made me reconsider saying. But

2408
01:52:03,399 --> 01:52:06,079
if one were to say the Knicks, couldn't you couldn't

2409
01:52:06,079 --> 01:52:08,680
you argue the offense will continue to be great, but

2410
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:13,159
kel Bridges should play better. They'll get another big worth Is,

2411
01:52:13,399 --> 01:52:16,119
but like we'll play better over sustained stretch and then

2412
01:52:16,359 --> 01:52:19,399
another big guy helps the defense be better. I don't

2413
01:52:19,399 --> 01:52:20,439
know there's upside there.

2414
01:52:21,479 --> 01:52:23,800
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not bad. I just I guess Tim's

2415
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:25,680
will play the guys too. But that also does that

2416
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:27,399
increase the risk of someone dying.

2417
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:32,680
Speaker 2: No, because it conditions the athlete to survive. That's right,

2418
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:35,640
all the adversity. What about the MAVs in the West,

2419
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:37,640
Like we we agree that they haven't been their best

2420
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:40,159
selves and they're still really awesome, so like they could

2421
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,600
they could still you know, have another level to go.

2422
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:44,840
Speaker 1: I think that's the pick if it's not okay, see,

2423
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:49,239
because I think that Denver and Minnesota would be. Honestly,

2424
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:52,920
the answer might just be Memphis because it just figures

2425
01:52:53,079 --> 01:52:56,800
because it doesn't matter who's available, right apparently, But Dallas

2426
01:52:56,960 --> 01:53:01,920
is just they're so good, And it does feel like Denver, Minnesota,

2427
01:53:02,039 --> 01:53:05,960
Golden State and Phoenix and even Sacramento are sort of

2428
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:09,239
faded to be up and down all year.

2429
01:53:09,319 --> 01:53:11,560
Speaker 2: Right, And it's not the same. It's not asking who's

2430
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:14,560
gonna be most improved or whatever. It's like who's gonna

2431
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,359
have the highest raw number of wins? So it's like

2432
01:53:17,399 --> 01:53:20,000
you just have to choose from a team that's demonstrated

2433
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:21,359
the ability to win a lot already.

2434
01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:24,640
Speaker 1: So if we can't go Chalk, I'm going to say

2435
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:30,840
the Bucks and God, the Western Conference is tough. Fuck it,

2436
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:33,199
I'm gonna say the Grizzlies. I don't I got the

2437
01:53:33,279 --> 01:53:35,680
team one of the teams that that just they have

2438
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:38,479
ninety guys that can play. So I'm gonna go Memphis

2439
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:39,479
and Milwaukee.

2440
01:53:39,199 --> 01:53:41,319
Speaker 2: As my if we can't coach Chalk, I'm gonna go

2441
01:53:41,439 --> 01:53:43,920
Nicks despite you and MAVs because I feel like the

2442
01:53:44,039 --> 01:53:46,800
MAVs just might actually end up being the number one seed.

2443
01:53:47,039 --> 01:53:48,880
So it feels pretty easy to say though.

2444
01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:52,840
Speaker 1: The second part, how much cafe is required to kill

2445
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:57,359
one vampire squid? Vampire squids are unkillable except for when

2446
01:53:57,760 --> 01:53:59,560
between eight to ten years old. That is their life span,

2447
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:01,520
and then they die, but they cannot be killed before then.

2448
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:02,640
They're basically teflon.

2449
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:05,239
Speaker 2: Is that a picture of a real vampire squid?

2450
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm pretty that has to be AI generated. I don't

2451
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,479
know anymore, though, I'm John I'm put off by that

2452
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:16,760
shout out vampire squids. Okay, I think this is our

2453
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:20,680
second last question. Matty l asked Grant. How does box

2454
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:22,000
score plus minus work.

2455
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:25,760
Speaker 2: How many teams? How many points did your team outscore

2456
01:54:25,880 --> 01:54:27,920
the opposition or get out scored by when you were

2457
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:28,439
on the court.

2458
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 1: Is that the they gave though, was saying an example

2459
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:35,560
for the Bulls is the win over the Nets, reasoning

2460
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:37,520
where Josh Getty got a triple double but only got

2461
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:40,119
a plus seven, whereas all the other starters had higher

2462
01:54:40,439 --> 01:54:42,600
even Julian Phillips, who didn't have a great stat line

2463
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:45,359
but was plus nine. What else does it involve? Thank you?

2464
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:48,720
And it's just it involves its lineup context. Mostly like

2465
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:50,319
I do think for single game it can be a

2466
01:54:50,359 --> 01:54:53,279
barometer for how valuable a player was. Like Drew Smith

2467
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:55,640
filed out against the Pistons the other night. The Heat

2468
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:57,680
were down three at the time, and I think he

2469
01:54:57,800 --> 01:55:00,880
was a plus eighteen when he fouled out. It's it's like, okay,

2470
01:55:01,079 --> 01:55:03,760
they they this is how much you won the minutes

2471
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:05,560
by with that guy on the court. And so if

2472
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,479
all the starters aside from Josh Giddy had high and

2473
01:55:08,520 --> 01:55:10,119
please correct me if up, this is a terrible way

2474
01:55:10,159 --> 01:55:12,079
to explain it. Grant, if all the starters other than

2475
01:55:12,159 --> 01:55:14,640
Josh Giddy had a higher plus minus, it just means

2476
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:16,920
that he was in lineups that did not fare as

2477
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:20,760
well versus what they were like outside the starting lineup maybe,

2478
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:22,159
and that impacted the plus minus.

2479
01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 2: And to the triple double point, it's like giddy could have.

2480
01:55:25,039 --> 01:55:27,479
You could be on the on the floor for twenty minutes,

2481
01:55:28,399 --> 01:55:31,520
produce zero box score stats whatsoever, and your plus minus

2482
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,760
is whatever your team outscored or was outscored by in

2483
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,359
those twenty minutes doesn't doesn't matter what you do. It's

2484
01:55:37,399 --> 01:55:40,680
almost like, this is why it's kind of finicky to

2485
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:43,760
use game to games, like, it's sort of what whatever

2486
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:46,199
happened to happen when you were on the court, whether

2487
01:55:46,279 --> 01:55:48,399
you influenced it or not, is your plus minus.

2488
01:55:49,199 --> 01:55:53,840
Speaker 1: Our final question comes from Calvin Booth. Should the Nuggets

2489
01:55:53,880 --> 01:55:54,840
trade for Zach Lavine?

2490
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:57,399
Speaker 2: Well, Calvins, I didn't even get.

2491
01:55:57,239 --> 01:55:59,159
Speaker 1: Like a fake chuckle out of you with that one.

2492
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:02,399
Speaker 2: I had. It took me a second to process it.

2493
01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:06,439
Let's go over some of the basics Levine's twenty nine

2494
01:56:07,119 --> 01:56:09,319
We are assuming, are we not, that Michael Porter Junior

2495
01:56:09,439 --> 01:56:12,960
is the outgoing main salary in a hypothetical Levine trade, Right,

2496
01:56:13,039 --> 01:56:13,479
we sort of.

2497
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:16,319
Speaker 1: Have to yeah, oh yeah, you know, because you can't

2498
01:56:16,319 --> 01:56:18,560
trade Murray or Gordon, and you're not going to trade Yokich.

2499
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:21,239
Speaker 2: So here's so then it's sort of a one to one.

2500
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:24,399
Mpg's twenty six, he's three years younger, two years left

2501
01:56:24,439 --> 01:56:27,079
on his deal, seventy nine million dollars total. Levine's got

2502
01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:30,960
two for ninety five After this one, Levine more volume

2503
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:33,920
and accuracy from deep MPJ does not self generate threes.

2504
01:56:34,039 --> 01:56:36,079
Ninety two point one percent of his threes have been

2505
01:56:36,079 --> 01:56:38,640
assisted for his career, just under ninety one percent this year.

2506
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:42,439
Levine does sixty percent assisted on threes fifty six point

2507
01:56:42,479 --> 01:56:45,239
eight percent this year. Levin is not a genius passer,

2508
01:56:45,479 --> 01:56:48,119
but his career assist rate is three times that of

2509
01:56:48,199 --> 01:56:54,720
Michael Porter juniors. Porter Junior's bigger, better defender. Maybe you

2510
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:57,680
like him as a someone that's going to score closer

2511
01:56:57,680 --> 01:57:02,319
to the basket. That's about it. I think the comparison

2512
01:57:02,399 --> 01:57:06,079
recommends Levin uh pretty strongly if you don't care about

2513
01:57:06,079 --> 01:57:08,159
the money, which obviously the Nuggets sort of have to.

2514
01:57:08,399 --> 01:57:12,760
But well, if if you're also trying to address the

2515
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:15,079
non Jokic minutes, I think Levin is much more helpful

2516
01:57:15,239 --> 01:57:16,680
in those than MPG is.

2517
01:57:17,039 --> 01:57:19,239
Speaker 1: I think the other part of this, though, too, is

2518
01:57:19,399 --> 01:57:22,920
what else would need to be attached to get zach Lavine.

2519
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:24,399
So like Michael Porter and your has to be the

2520
01:57:24,439 --> 01:57:27,239
meat and potatoes or the outgoing salary. If you just

2521
01:57:27,359 --> 01:57:31,279
include Zeke Naji's deal, the trade works, I believe, But

2522
01:57:31,399 --> 01:57:34,520
are you also like if you're the bulls are Porter

2523
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:37,399
and Zeke Nagy, is that enough for you to give

2524
01:57:37,479 --> 01:57:39,039
up Zack Levin to say, well, we got off that deal.

2525
01:57:39,079 --> 01:57:41,720
We broke them up into cheaper players. Zeke Naji is

2526
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:44,000
another three years left on his contract after this one.

2527
01:57:44,439 --> 01:57:46,359
Denver's not giving I mean, they could give you a

2528
01:57:46,399 --> 01:57:49,359
pick swap, but I'm not if I'm Denver, even though

2529
01:57:49,359 --> 01:57:52,199
I think zach Lavine is probably the better fit or

2530
01:57:52,319 --> 01:57:55,439
does more for the non Jokic minutes, does he optimize

2531
01:57:55,439 --> 01:57:57,840
the Jokch minutes? When you have Jamal Murray on the court,

2532
01:57:57,880 --> 01:57:59,720
is because now your wing depth is just you have

2533
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:03,319
Paid Watson and Christian Brown. Yeah that helps, but like

2534
01:58:03,399 --> 01:58:06,439
you're really part of the Nuggets and they're still pretty big.

2535
01:58:06,520 --> 01:58:09,600
When you have Aaron Gordon and nicolea jokicch and p Ah,

2536
01:58:10,279 --> 01:58:12,720
Like it's so tough and so you're not. But this

2537
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:14,640
is where I was initially going, you're not giving if

2538
01:58:14,640 --> 01:58:16,479
you're the nuggets. I think Zach Levine has been great,

2539
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:18,960
But because you have murder like you're not giving your

2540
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:21,720
twenty thirty one first round pickup in this are you?

2541
01:58:22,359 --> 01:58:25,560
Speaker 2: Probably not? And I don't know that you should have to. Uh.

2542
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:27,439
I just I think from the bulls side of this,

2543
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:30,520
I think you probably. I don't know how much you

2544
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:33,680
care about this, but the pr is probably pretty good

2545
01:58:33,800 --> 01:58:36,479
if you're getting MPG back in a Levigne deal, even

2546
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:38,680
if you're not getting a first or a swap or whatever.

2547
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:42,600
Speaker 1: Because he's younger, there's a positional need for them too

2548
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:43,239
different Like.

2549
01:58:43,319 --> 01:58:45,800
Speaker 2: Right, it's just not Zach Levine, and he's sort of

2550
01:58:45,880 --> 01:58:48,239
comparable in terms of, like he's a great shooter, you know,

2551
01:58:48,399 --> 01:58:51,680
offense first guy. You could talk yourself into more upside

2552
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:53,720
with MPG. I don't know if I would be persuaded

2553
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,439
by that, but you could. I think, like from Denver

2554
01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:00,720
side of it, if it if the question is should

2555
01:59:00,760 --> 01:59:03,359
they should they? I just view this as should would

2556
01:59:03,359 --> 01:59:06,039
you rather have MPJ or Zach Lavine? I'd rather have

2557
01:59:06,199 --> 01:59:08,640
zach Lavine. It's more complicated than that because of the

2558
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:11,439
things you're saying of like, well, what do you think

2559
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:14,119
you could get this done for realistically? And it can't

2560
01:59:14,279 --> 01:59:20,479
just be MPG from the bull side. I mean, that's

2561
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:22,039
not really what the question is asking. I feel like

2562
01:59:22,079 --> 01:59:25,319
the question is asking essentially, like if the Nuggets can

2563
01:59:25,319 --> 01:59:27,560
get Levine for a reasonable package, should they do it?

2564
01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:29,359
And I guess my short answer is yeah, I just

2565
01:59:29,399 --> 01:59:33,680
think he addresses beyond the shortening your like forward depth.

2566
01:59:34,199 --> 01:59:36,399
I think he he just does more of the things

2567
01:59:36,479 --> 01:59:38,800
you need that we've talked plenty about for Denver on

2568
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:39,279
this pod.

2569
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:42,840
Speaker 1: I guess it's just I struggle to see I might

2570
01:59:42,920 --> 01:59:45,119
not do it because it's just like you have Jamal

2571
01:59:45,199 --> 01:59:47,960
Murray Zach Lavine. Then, like what is that if those

2572
01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:49,560
who are gonna play together at some point, what does

2573
01:59:49,600 --> 01:59:50,479
the defense look like?

2574
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:51,079
Speaker 2: There?

2575
01:59:51,119 --> 01:59:53,199
Speaker 1: You're asking Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown to cover a

2576
01:59:53,239 --> 01:59:55,880
lot up. Maybe Nicole Jokic probably has not been as

2577
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:57,600
good defensively this year as he was last year. He

2578
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,560
probably gets better by having to do less. But it's

2579
02:00:01,640 --> 02:00:04,920
just don't don't you does that skew too far towards

2580
02:00:05,279 --> 02:00:07,680
we're trying to optimize the minutes when our best player

2581
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:09,800
isn't on the floor, because it kind of comes back

2582
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:13,359
to are we giving up? Like, why would you burn

2583
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:15,920
a first round pick on getting a backup center type

2584
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:17,760
deal when you have Nikolio Kich or Jowelle Meat or

2585
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:19,880
somebody else on ole jewel Bean never doesn't really play

2586
02:00:19,960 --> 02:00:21,960
so bad example, But you know what I'm saying, when

2587
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:25,319
you already have your tenth pole center, you wouldn't go

2588
02:00:25,399 --> 02:00:26,760
out and give up a ton of stuff just to

2589
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:29,359
get a backup. And with this, it's okay, he doesn't

2590
02:00:29,399 --> 02:00:33,279
necessarily have to be a backup, but I just but

2591
02:00:33,359 --> 02:00:35,680
it's also Michael Worker's not the best defender, and he's

2592
02:00:35,720 --> 02:00:37,880
up and down, but the size certainly helps, and there's

2593
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:40,920
rebounding there from him. I just wonder, I guess you're

2594
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:43,159
not giving up a first round pick if that's what

2595
02:00:43,239 --> 02:00:46,520
we're assuming. I just still wonder if now you're leaning

2596
02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:49,239
too far into what we're trying to maximize the minutes

2597
02:00:49,279 --> 02:00:51,239
that Nikolio Kitch is off the floor, which by the way,

2598
02:00:51,319 --> 02:00:52,960
are probably never gonna be great.

2599
02:00:53,439 --> 02:00:58,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I was. I was gonna say, I think

2600
02:00:59,319 --> 02:01:01,439
that's a good That's that's how you would argue against it,

2601
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:04,560
is you would say we're caring too much about the

2602
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:08,600
non Jokic minutes. And if if in fact, Levine makes

2603
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:12,359
your best five man lineup worse than the one that

2604
02:01:12,479 --> 02:01:15,520
has MPJ in it, then you probably shouldn't do it.

2605
02:01:17,399 --> 02:01:19,560
Or if like the trade off is negative, like the

2606
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:23,680
starters get that much worse and the reserves without Jokic

2607
02:01:24,279 --> 02:01:26,800
aren't better enough to or you know, you know what

2608
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:29,439
I mean, Like, I think the first priorities should still

2609
02:01:29,479 --> 02:01:32,399
be which five guys are the best for us to

2610
02:01:32,479 --> 02:01:34,079
have on the floor to try to win the last

2611
02:01:34,119 --> 02:01:36,319
five minutes of a playoff game. And if the answer

2612
02:01:36,439 --> 02:01:38,840
is MPG is better in that role than Levine is,

2613
02:01:38,880 --> 02:01:42,640
then maybe you don't do it. But I think I

2614
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:46,319
think Levin is a better player. You lose size, that's

2615
02:01:46,399 --> 02:01:49,960
not ideal. I still think with Gordon and with Jokic

2616
02:01:50,199 --> 02:01:53,399
up front, like you're big enough and you can use

2617
02:01:53,439 --> 02:01:57,239
Peyton Watson if you need to. I just I don't know. Well,

2618
02:01:57,960 --> 02:01:59,920
that's a great point, though, because because you're focusing on

2619
02:02:00,119 --> 02:02:01,560
the wrong thing. If it's like, well, this makes the

2620
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:04,039
non Jokic minutes better, full stop, do it right, because

2621
02:02:04,039 --> 02:02:06,319
you should care about Jokic on more than off.

2622
02:02:07,439 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 1: And I mean, but to your point, though, Zacklvin has

2623
02:02:11,039 --> 02:02:13,960
hit thirty two on assisted three point completely unassisted three

2624
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:16,119
pointers this year, Michael Porter Juniors hit five.

2625
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:19,079
Speaker 2: No, it's not part of mpg's game. He doesn't do

2626
02:02:19,159 --> 02:02:20,079
that right, And.

2627
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:22,680
Speaker 1: Zack Colvin is also the only other players that are

2628
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:25,840
shooting over forty percent on pull up threes while taking

2629
02:02:26,159 --> 02:02:28,680
at least I think for a game are Jalen Brunson,

2630
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:30,960
Tyler Hero, and Anthony Edwards. And it's like, there's just

2631
02:02:31,119 --> 02:02:33,520
and what do we talk about. Here's where I'm going

2632
02:02:33,520 --> 02:02:35,800
back and forth with is so you get Zacklovine and

2633
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:37,960
maybe you bump up your three point volume a little

2634
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:39,720
bit as a team, which is still too low, but

2635
02:02:39,800 --> 02:02:43,039
you're also losing one of your higher volume three point shooters.

2636
02:02:43,399 --> 02:02:46,479
So how are like, are you even is it enough

2637
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:48,720
of an upgrade? Like even if we're looking at the

2638
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:51,039
like it from that perspective to where, okay, the self

2639
02:02:51,079 --> 02:02:53,920
creation is an upgrade, but you're not necessarily upgrading your

2640
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:56,560
shot profile a ton. And then the other thing I'm

2641
02:02:56,600 --> 02:03:00,199
struggling is I guess the bulls do this, Like if

2642
02:03:00,199 --> 02:03:02,920
you're getting Zeke Naji and Michael Porter Junior for zach Lavine.

2643
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:05,399
Is that like that's just considered enough that Zeke Naji deal.

2644
02:03:05,680 --> 02:03:08,640
He can't get the on the floor before DeAndre Jordan.

2645
02:03:09,439 --> 02:03:12,600
Speaker 2: Who's who's the better player that they could get in

2646
02:03:12,680 --> 02:03:13,800
a in a Levine trade?

2647
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:18,880
Speaker 1: As is there a team that will turn around in

2648
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:21,399
trade like could the Thunder get a hold of Michael

2649
02:03:21,439 --> 02:03:23,119
but the salaries too tough to match there? But a

2650
02:03:23,159 --> 02:03:26,239
team that needs a functional shooter, would they come and

2651
02:03:26,319 --> 02:03:28,079
give you something for Mpja? And now we're kind of

2652
02:03:28,119 --> 02:03:30,640
looking at the zach Lavine trade tree, so it does

2653
02:03:30,680 --> 02:03:33,760
feel like an easier decision from their part. I just

2654
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:35,920
and if you're the Nuggets, by the way, part of

2655
02:03:35,960 --> 02:03:38,079
the appeal is just getting off of the Zeke Naji

2656
02:03:38,159 --> 02:03:41,199
contract at this point. But now what you've also done, though,

2657
02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:43,960
is you made it tough and not that you should

2658
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:46,000
think to these terms. You've made it tougher to complete

2659
02:03:46,199 --> 02:03:49,239
future trades because now it's okay, Well, Dario charz is

2660
02:03:49,359 --> 02:03:52,000
five million dollars is like our only mid end sound.

2661
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:54,039
He's gonna pick up that player option next year, and

2662
02:03:54,119 --> 02:03:56,319
I guess you shouldn't think in those terms. Then Jamal

2663
02:03:56,399 --> 02:03:58,439
Murray and Aaron Gordon will be trade eligible at some point.

2664
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:01,520
That would be my other question for this. I think

2665
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,000
I think it's defensible both ways. I don't know if

2666
02:04:04,039 --> 02:04:06,199
it's a I honestly don't know if I would do

2667
02:04:06,239 --> 02:04:09,840
if it's just MPJ and Zeke Najy. I almost feel

2668
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:11,800
like maybe Dever's obligated to do it, but I just

2669
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:13,479
don't know if it does enough. And then if they

2670
02:04:13,560 --> 02:04:16,960
do it, Grant does this, like, what are the odds

2671
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,279
that Jamal Murray then isn't traded over the offseason?

2672
02:04:22,840 --> 02:04:24,479
Speaker 2: I have no idea, I don't.

2673
02:04:24,479 --> 02:04:26,479
Speaker 1: I just feel like I broke here, Are you okay?

2674
02:04:27,199 --> 02:04:30,560
Speaker 2: I just try. I hadn't considered how this would affect

2675
02:04:30,880 --> 02:04:34,119
the likelihood of Murray being traded. I don't know that

2676
02:04:34,199 --> 02:04:36,720
he is tradeable for value, so I don't know that

2677
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:39,720
he is gonna be traded regardless. I guess you would.

2678
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:42,319
So are you like inching towards will you have Levine?

2679
02:04:42,399 --> 02:04:45,640
Now he's duplicative with Murray? Is the next move to

2680
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:48,399
try to trade Murray to get another bigger forward back?

2681
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:50,880
So you're sort of like just you're changing out a

2682
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:52,159
second key roster spot.

2683
02:04:52,600 --> 02:04:57,439
Speaker 1: Well, it's also that, but Christian Brown and Peyton Watson

2684
02:04:57,840 --> 02:05:00,119
like they're coming up on their extensions and and so

2685
02:05:00,279 --> 02:05:03,119
this team was kind of always headed towards the financial crossroads. Anyway,

2686
02:05:03,439 --> 02:05:06,079
Apparently Denver discussed an extension, per the Athletic. This was

2687
02:05:06,079 --> 02:05:08,279
all reported by Tony Jones shout out front of the

2688
02:05:08,279 --> 02:05:12,000
pot Tony Jones and Sam Amock of the Athletic. Uh So,

2689
02:05:12,119 --> 02:05:16,159
I just I don't know. Lavin has two years left

2690
02:05:16,199 --> 02:05:18,159
after this one in like a boatload of money, almost

2691
02:05:18,159 --> 02:05:20,239
one hundred million bucks for the final two years of

2692
02:05:20,319 --> 02:05:24,159
that contract. I'm just wondering. So you're gonna float because

2693
02:05:24,159 --> 02:05:26,000
your core of I know Lavine and Murray can be

2694
02:05:26,119 --> 02:05:29,079
better defensively than people make them out to be. But

2695
02:05:29,199 --> 02:05:33,399
when you're three are Jokic, Murray, and Levine, You've leaned

2696
02:05:33,479 --> 02:05:36,239
all the way into offense and you are already seventh

2697
02:05:36,479 --> 02:05:38,720
on offense this year, right or they higher than that.

2698
02:05:39,439 --> 02:05:42,640
I'm just wondering. I understand it, and I think it

2699
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:45,840
would their sixth in offense. Denver is as we record

2700
02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:48,640
this right now, But you're also it's also like they're

2701
02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:51,279
thirteenth in defense. And how much when going from Michael

2702
02:05:51,319 --> 02:05:53,880
Porter Junior to Zach Lavin really impact your defense?

2703
02:05:54,159 --> 02:05:56,399
Speaker 2: It might not make a difference either way, right, I

2704
02:05:56,439 --> 02:05:58,479
think the assumption is you'd get a little worse because

2705
02:05:58,479 --> 02:06:01,640
you're smaller, and I guess Porter Junior is probably a

2706
02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:04,359
better defensive player, like can actually protect the rim a

2707
02:06:04,399 --> 02:06:07,800
little bit. I think like one illustration would be like

2708
02:06:08,119 --> 02:06:11,479
salaries being equal, you wouldn't trade Gordon for Levine because

2709
02:06:11,479 --> 02:06:15,119
then your defense is just destroyed. But like, I don't

2710
02:06:15,159 --> 02:06:18,159
know that the yeah, I don't know. I keep coming

2711
02:06:18,199 --> 02:06:20,680
back to. I just think Levine's better. The Nuggets are

2712
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:22,880
obligated to get better, and so like I don't know,

2713
02:06:23,039 --> 02:06:24,880
Like do we stop it there? Obviously we didn't. We've

2714
02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:26,840
gone fifteen minutes on this, But you know, like.

2715
02:06:28,319 --> 02:06:32,359
Speaker 1: I think I'm exaggerating, Well, do you think it's It

2716
02:06:32,479 --> 02:06:34,600
makes more sense through the lens of strictly the playoffs,

2717
02:06:35,039 --> 02:06:37,720
where it's just you need someone to generate stuff from

2718
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:40,399
scratch and right now, jo Kich and Murray are your

2719
02:06:40,479 --> 02:06:44,159
only options there, and Murray is often a roller coaster.

2720
02:06:44,399 --> 02:06:47,800
Or during those let's say Nicoleyocho didn't play forty minutes

2721
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:49,479
in the playoffs. During those eight minutes he's not on

2722
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:51,920
the floor, you have a better chance of surviving rather

2723
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:54,520
than let's try to be as good as possible defensively

2724
02:06:54,720 --> 02:06:57,399
around Jamal Murray even without Jamal Murray, or we'll just

2725
02:06:57,479 --> 02:06:59,680
lean into maybe Levine and Murray are both playing minutes

2726
02:07:00,039 --> 02:07:01,840
without yoga on the court, and that's what we really

2727
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:04,640
think will help preserve the offense and the differential better

2728
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:06,359
than if we lean into the defense of it all.

2729
02:07:06,640 --> 02:07:11,880
Speaker 2: And I wonder too, like just a from a replaceability standpoint, now,

2730
02:07:12,039 --> 02:07:15,960
MPJ is like in his early careers like here historically

2731
02:07:16,119 --> 02:07:21,199
good great, maybe just volume three point shooter with good size.

2732
02:07:21,279 --> 02:07:24,600
Like at the same time, I think it might tell

2733
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:26,039
me if you disagree with this, I think it might

2734
02:07:26,079 --> 02:07:29,880
be easier to find a guy who's like passable defensively

2735
02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:32,880
that can take and make a bunch of threes than

2736
02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:35,520
it is to find someone who can be the high

2737
02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:38,439
volume three point shooter on the move also initiate some

2738
02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:41,319
offense like Levigne is. I feel like I've never been

2739
02:07:41,359 --> 02:07:43,239
a huge fan of Leavin. I want to make that clear.

2740
02:07:43,319 --> 02:07:46,399
I just think his player type might be harder to

2741
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:49,920
find than MPJ. Like, go find someone that's gonna catch

2742
02:07:49,960 --> 02:07:52,199
and shoot a bunch of threes, right, Like that's those

2743
02:07:52,199 --> 02:07:54,640
guys are kind of out there, and they're not always

2744
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:55,600
super highly paid.

2745
02:07:56,199 --> 02:07:59,319
Speaker 1: And his anomaly in that perspective is the size, Like

2746
02:07:59,359 --> 02:08:01,640
you're not gonna find someone who's six ' ten as

2747
02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:04,239
easily that's doing that. But if he's not generating a

2748
02:08:04,319 --> 02:08:07,600
ton of his own looks a better playmaker this year.

2749
02:08:08,199 --> 02:08:11,479
But Lavigne, to your point, he's definitely the better playmaker

2750
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:12,960
when it comes to initiating things.

2751
02:08:13,399 --> 02:08:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think, Yeah, I think I

2752
02:08:16,960 --> 02:08:19,199
do it if I'm if I'm Denver, I don't. I'm

2753
02:08:19,319 --> 02:08:21,600
concerned about it, like I'm not sure that it's gonna

2754
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:22,119
make me better.

2755
02:08:22,159 --> 02:08:24,119
Speaker 1: And there are going to a drawing the line as

2756
02:08:24,239 --> 02:08:26,960
Denver at Michael. They have no seconds to trade, So

2757
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:30,359
it's Michael Porter, Junior's Ike Nagy, like the bulls they

2758
02:08:30,399 --> 02:08:34,560
ask for Julian Strother, Peyton Watson, Christian Brown.

2759
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 2: You're just no, yeah, probably I yeah, just because like now.

2760
02:08:41,079 --> 02:08:44,000
Speaker 1: Michael more expendable if you get exactly be like that

2761
02:08:44,079 --> 02:08:45,720
could be something that you're already so.

2762
02:08:45,880 --> 02:08:48,239
Speaker 2: Thin, like in guys that you can trust if you

2763
02:08:48,520 --> 02:08:50,840
like Brown or Watson, certainly Brown, it's like, oh, I

2764
02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:54,319
don't know, man, Like that's because because Brown actually once

2765
02:08:54,359 --> 02:08:57,479
he's extended. There's another trade chip potentially that isn't just

2766
02:08:57,560 --> 02:09:00,239
like integral to your core, so he has like down

2767
02:09:00,279 --> 02:09:02,960
the line value. Yeah, I don't know if I go

2768
02:09:03,119 --> 02:09:05,640
much beyond the deal you're talking about. If they start

2769
02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:08,119
asking for more, I'm like pretty uncomfortable with it.

2770
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:10,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if it make it. But they get Tory

2771
02:09:10,039 --> 02:09:11,920
Craig back as part of that deal from Chicago at that,

2772
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:13,920
I'm not giving up Peyton Watson or Christian Brown to

2773
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:17,039
do it, I don't think, just because that's you know,

2774
02:09:17,520 --> 02:09:19,880
I think that probably winds up impacting your defense more

2775
02:09:19,960 --> 02:09:23,039
than giving up NPJ. But then you're giving up NPJA

2776
02:09:23,239 --> 02:09:25,880
and one of those players. I'm very curious if that's

2777
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:28,960
just the framework because if that's the package the Bulls

2778
02:09:28,960 --> 02:09:30,960
were waiting on. Though I don't know why Zach Lavine

2779
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:33,760
wasn't moved already, I will say that, Yeah, I mean,

2780
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:35,359
I don't know.

2781
02:09:35,479 --> 02:09:37,560
Speaker 2: I imagine if you're Denver and you crunch the numbers

2782
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:42,840
and it's like we actually think this is like offensively

2783
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,680
in our best lineups. Michael Porter Junior just is more valuable.

2784
02:09:47,199 --> 02:09:49,800
Then you don't do it, even if you're sure. Also

2785
02:09:49,960 --> 02:09:52,479
that Levine props up the non Jokic minutes, because the

2786
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:54,760
more we talk about it, the more that's a problem.

2787
02:09:54,880 --> 02:09:58,479
But it's it's priority two. I think ultimately, like the

2788
02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:00,920
non Yokich minutes, even though the are so glaring, I

2789
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:04,359
think you should care most about which four guys with

2790
02:10:04,479 --> 02:10:08,000
yok on the floor make us the best version of ourselves.

2791
02:10:08,079 --> 02:10:11,079
And if it's MPG, then it's MPJ and And I

2792
02:10:11,119 --> 02:10:14,159
don't know if that's true, but like if it's if

2793
02:10:14,279 --> 02:10:16,399
Lavigne makes you better because of the.

2794
02:10:16,399 --> 02:10:21,600
Speaker 1: Shot cutting on this team, like oh my god, oh yeah.

2795
02:10:22,199 --> 02:10:25,000
Speaker 2: So it's it's a tough question. I'm leaning towards I

2796
02:10:25,079 --> 02:10:26,840
do it partly just because I would do it.

2797
02:10:26,840 --> 02:10:29,760
Speaker 1: Too, But I'm not going beyond if I'm denver MPJ

2798
02:10:30,159 --> 02:10:31,840
and Nause. But then I'm gonna have questions for why

2799
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:36,079
Chicago waited so long. If that's the return they right, Uh,

2800
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:39,439
you have anything else to add or you ready to

2801
02:10:39,479 --> 02:10:41,079
take us out of here? Just that we did it.

2802
02:10:41,319 --> 02:10:43,600
Speaker 2: We answered all the questions. There are no more questions left.

2803
02:10:44,840 --> 02:10:46,640
I learned about vampire squids.

2804
02:10:46,439 --> 02:10:49,600
Speaker 1: So you're welcome. And you learned what we both learned

2805
02:10:49,640 --> 02:10:52,000
a little bit about our caffeine likes and dislikes.

2806
02:10:52,760 --> 02:10:57,640
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, thanks everybody that submitted questions. Once again,

2807
02:10:57,840 --> 02:11:00,960
as as we mentioned every time, Uh, if you if

2808
02:11:01,000 --> 02:11:02,640
you want to participate in stuff like this, well you

2809
02:11:02,680 --> 02:11:04,920
know we'll do mailbags periodically. But there's you know, we're

2810
02:11:04,920 --> 02:11:06,239
always so listening stuff.

2811
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:08,159
Speaker 1: For one questions when we do them. If you're going

2812
02:11:08,239 --> 02:11:08,760
to ask for them.

2813
02:11:09,319 --> 02:11:13,760
Speaker 2: Discord uh or and or be rampant followers of mostly

2814
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:17,079
Dan and also me on blue Sky or Twitter links

2815
02:11:17,119 --> 02:11:18,960
for the links for that in the YouTube and podcast

2816
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:22,439
description on how to join our discord. Yeah, I think

2817
02:11:22,520 --> 02:11:24,279
I think we've all grown a lot. We've all learned

2818
02:11:24,279 --> 02:11:26,680
a lot. And uh, you can grow and learn by

2819
02:11:26,760 --> 02:11:29,680
remembering to rate, review, and subscribe. Picture you're commenting on

2820
02:11:29,720 --> 02:11:31,680
the YouTube videos, combs up all that good stuff, Tell

2821
02:11:31,680 --> 02:11:34,520
your friends, tell your enemies, shout out Frank Mila Kina. Apologies,

2822
02:11:34,600 --> 02:11:35,159
Jared Allen