WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.519 People say, good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.519 When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.160 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:42.000 A Gotham city is nothing but neon biker gangs, leather 7 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:43.280 freaks and cross dressers. 8 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:44.520 Is that what you want? 9 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:45.799 Come home? 10 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:52.960 No, I won't. Mom, I'm gonna be a comedian. When 11 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:53.880 I look back at my life. 12 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.560 We're going jokem into harlequin, so to speak. I wasn't 13 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:03.039 even sure I existed. It's like blurry cracks mosaic of 14 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.400 all these gender revelations. You mean she'sus he. 15 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:09.439 And I'm trans. 16 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:11.599 Oh, well, I'm sorry. 17 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.680 Well I'm not sorry. I was fairly certain I was 18 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.000 in love, and I was so afraid of that feeling 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:17.680 going away. 20 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:20.920 Ah, but you should be afraid. 21 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.719 It's just wo my happy little boy back. I just 22 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:25.959 don't feel like a boy. 23 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.120 You're not a boy. I've developed an experimental treatment. 24 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:36.280 Mama's Happy Little also comes in Rainbow for Pride. 25 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:43.200 It was foretold that Sunday a clown would rise. Sounds pretentious. 26 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:47.920 It is whatever you say, mister Jayna no, you must 27 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:49.760 journeying shy Trichelle. 28 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:52.519 I'm not a hero, but I'm not a villain either, 29 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:55.239 So who are you? 30 00:01:57.079 --> 00:01:57.599 I'm a woman. 31 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:07.159 In my word, I got clowns were supposed to be funny. 32 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:16.800 I Hey, folks, welcome to you a very special episode 33 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:18.759 of The Projection Booth. I'm your host Mike White. On 34 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.639 this episode, I'm talking to it Vera drew All about 35 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.840 her twenty twenty two film, The People's Joker. It is 36 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:28.240 now available on streaming as well as home video. Definitely 37 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.039 check it out and I hope you enjoyed this interview. Vira, 38 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:33.560 thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really 39 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.599 excited to talk with you about The People's Joker, but 40 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:37.319 I would really love to know a little bit more 41 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:39.520 about you and how you got into show business because 42 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:40.960 you've been doing a lot of things for a lot 43 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:41.400 of years. 44 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:44.560 Thanks for having me on. I love attention, so I 45 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.879 love doing podcasts. I wanted to be in show business 46 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.759 at a very early age. I knew I wanted to 47 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:54.800 make movies from the time I was like six years old. 48 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.360 With growing up, it's like crazy, just because I think 49 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.120 I'm not that old. I'm only thirty five, But like 50 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:05.199 people like even just like slightly younger than me, don't 51 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.599 really realize just how different it was like when I 52 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:10.120 was a kid, Like it it comes to making movies 53 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:14.560 and stuff like YouTube didn't exist. Digital video was around. 54 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.840 But I remember telling people when I was a kid 55 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:20.039 that I wanted to be a filmmaker and them just 56 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.680 looking like, what is a hobby? And yeah, I don't know. 57 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.800 I don't even really know how I arrived at wanting 58 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.000 to do it. I know it was like tied to 59 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:30.759 seeing back to the future. At a very early age, 60 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:33.039 I was just really obsessed with it. I think it 61 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:35.000 might have been like the first movie I saw that 62 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.039 helped me understand that you could build these worlds and 63 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:41.680 tell a visual story like that, and the distinction between 64 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:44.599 reality and storytelling and stuff was just so fascinating to me. 65 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.800 But yeah, like how do you get into it? In 66 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.000 the early nineties, so I really focused on theater. I 67 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.039 was like a total drama dorc and started doing comedy 68 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.159 really young. Grew up in the South suburbs of Chicago, 69 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.879 so I would travel with the city every weekend, and 70 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.199 I took him pross classes at Second City. I was 71 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.919 like a part of this like very early version of 72 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.280 a youth program that I think they have now and 73 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:14.240 a lot of people do, but I was like part 74 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.360 of the first wave of it, so I really got 75 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.000 a lot of like before of its experience as a 76 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:23.040 kid and pretty early on in my life and then 77 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:26.439 always knew I wanted to go to film school, and 78 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:28.360 I don't know in film school, like I really just 79 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.399 wanted to, Like I got jaded a little bit, I 80 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.680 think just by like where movies were at, like I was. 81 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.399 I really got into experimental film and got really obsessed 82 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.959 with specifically like Kenneth Anger. I was really I wanted 83 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.199 to be the next Kindeth Anger for some reason. I 84 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:45.439 didn't even know I was queer, but I just knew 85 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.879 I was apeak kind of angered and yeah, And it 86 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.720 was like right around the time that like Tim and 87 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:56.040 Eric started making awesome show for Adult Swim, and I 88 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.959 remember like my first time watching it, like I understand 89 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.240 do it as like a comedy show, but I really 90 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:07.759 saw it as like this amazing piece of like experimental cinema. 91 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.560 Like it really I think those guys hate it when 92 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:12.680 people talk about it that way, so they definitely get 93 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.720 annoyed by me sometimes when I talk about it like that, 94 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.360 but it's still the only way that I could, I 95 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:20.360 was ever able to really think of it is it's 96 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:24.959 tyfically its attention to media formats and editing as this 97 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.000 form of expression. I had never seen anything like that before, 98 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:31.759 Like maybe the closest I had seen was just in 99 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.519 like Kenneth Anger and William Wagman stuff, the kind of 100 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.839 more just experimental stuff. So like that really blew my mind, 101 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.759 and I was, Okay, so I don't need to be 102 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.279 a broke experimental filmmaker. I can be a broke alternative 103 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:53.120 comedy filmmaker. And like pretty much like right as I 104 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.160 was about to graduate, I got an internship at Tim 105 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.360 and Eric and I just called their studio and was like, 106 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.439 do you guys see interns? And they were like sure, 107 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.120 And they had just finished their movie Billion Dollar Movie, 108 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.199 and had just been starting to shoot season one of 109 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.279 The Eric Andre Show and season one of Comedy Bang Bangs. 110 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:15.079 So I got in there with the boom of like 111 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.959 alternative comedy becoming a bigger thing. It had been a 112 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.720 thing since they were nineties, like with Mister Show and stuff, 113 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:26.160 which I had loved growing up, but became cool and 114 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.639 like more. There was just a lot of that kind 115 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:30.600 of production happening, and I got in right at this 116 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.120 perfect time. And I don't know, I've made this joke 117 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:36.560 a billion times, so I probably shouldn't make it anymore. 118 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:38.839 But maybe this will be the last time. I really 119 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:44.279 am the like Transforest Gump of alt comedy, just because 120 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:48.560 I got to work on every single cool Adult Swim show, 121 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.839 and like I was on Eric Andre Show and Nathan 122 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.560 for You and Comedy Bang and Bedtime Stories check it 123 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.560 Out with Steve Brule, Like I got this really amazing 124 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.439 hands on experience and just got to incubate around all 125 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.800 these like creative geniuses, which was perfect for me because 126 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.040 I knew I wanted to be a filmmaker and a director, 127 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:13.079 but wasn't really quite sure the pathway for me, or 128 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.199 like really even what stories I wanted to tell. 129 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:18.240 I think right, because The People's Joker is not your 130 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.800 first directing job. You've directed quite a few things before. 131 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.959 This, mostly with under the Absolutely Productions Umbrella, I directed 132 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.120 and produced and wrote a handful of shows for Adultswim 133 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.560 dot Com. One of what was a show called I 134 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.839 Love David that's like a docu series about David Leebahart 135 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.480 and that was honestly making that was one of the 136 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:43.720 best experiences of my life and really helped me. I 137 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:45.519 don't know, because for me, like there was always this 138 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.439 and I think like the conversation around that kind of 139 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:52.120 humor was always like, oh, it's like ironic, like how 140 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:55.160 can it be sincere or whatever? And when I was 141 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.240 working on I Love David, it was just like, I 142 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.199 want to try to do both at the same time, 143 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:04.839 really want to walk this line of yeah, it's like 144 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.879 a goof and we're really like we made this whole 145 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:14.199 alternate reality for David Leebahart's life when fake archival pictures 146 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.519 of him with Robin Williams and his family members and 147 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:20.759 all that stuff. And it also had the first episode 148 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.920 has this beautiful song that he wrote about his mother. 149 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:28.639 It's called I'm Sad that my Mama died, Like really 150 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.600 had just this beautiful intersection of that like alt comedy 151 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:37.120 like shit post thing and then this like deep sincerity 152 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.960 and there's a lot of intentionality to that as we 153 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.159 were starting to put it together, and I think that 154 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:44.759 kind of carried through a lot of this stuff that 155 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:46.559 I ended up doing with Tim and Eric. I also 156 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.440 produced and directed and co wrote some of Tim and 157 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.519 Eric's Beef House, which was definitely a lot more silly 158 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.559 and outlandish as a show, but I think I brought 159 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:02.320 a lot of that sincere already and grounded emotion to 160 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:07.200 it as well. I really liked playing with both of 161 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.480 those things, and I think the People's Joker was like 162 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:13.799 the pure heroin version of that or something like I 163 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.240 really just seemed to see and I wanted you to 164 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.919 cry or laugh or be upset or annoyed or whatever. 165 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.039 So how did the People's Joker? How did you come 166 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:24.480 up with that? 167 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:28.120 It was towards the end of twenty nineteen, like I'd 168 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.600 had a handful of directing gigs and writing and producing gigs. 169 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.039 It really was like wanting to make my own stuff 170 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:40.159 and it couldn't. I was pitching a lot and it 171 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:44.240 just didn't really just wasn't really happening for me. And 172 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:46.039 I don't really know why that is. I've definitely in 173 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:47.840 the past I've blamed it on the fact that I'm 174 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:50.600 a trans woman, but I think it's just that was 175 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.720 when Hollywood was really starting to just get a little 176 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.360 bit like the whole like bleakness that you hear about 177 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:00.960 in terms of like production and stuff. I think it 178 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:04.279 really started in like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and I'm 179 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:06.240 not really too sure why. I think part of it's 180 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:09.799 like all the mergers that were happening just politically where 181 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.360 the country was at and all that stuff, and I 182 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.600 was really feeling that I was just even having a 183 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.279 tough time getting people to read my stuff, which was 184 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.799 so frustrating, just because I had all this experience and 185 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.279 it's built this I think, pretty impressive career and I 186 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:27.159 could do a lot, like I was an editor and 187 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.440 a director and a writer producer. So there was this 188 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.000 building frustration and I was just finally at a point 189 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.759 where I was like, I need to just write a 190 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:38.159 movie and make it. And the initial ideas that I 191 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.639 was having were because I, like I said before, I 192 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:42.720 didn't really ever know like what kind of stories I 193 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.720 wanted to tell. It was just Okay, the easiest thing 194 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:50.679 is just talking about my life. So I'll just process 195 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.080 the experience of what it was like coming out as 196 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.960 a trans woman in those comedy spaces and talk about 197 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:04.559 this era of comedy and filmmaking. And the initial idea 198 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.960 was body horror movie about a drag clean who was 199 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:11.320 like physically addicted to irony and like it was like 200 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.840 killing her from the inside, but it was also something 201 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.679 she like needed to survive. I never really got that 202 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:20.000 far into it, but uh, that was really I think 203 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.000 where the a lot of the like initial ideas for 204 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:26.480 the people's Joker came from, and it really became like 205 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.080 something else when you know, around the time that the 206 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:35.600 pandemic was starting, Todd Phillips, God bless his soul, was 207 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:40.120 in the news talking about woke culture, as is his 208 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:44.840 right as a cis white guy, and he was basically 209 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:48.120 complaining about how like hard it is to make comedy 210 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.519 now or whatever because of sensitivity, and on some of 211 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.759 them I agree with him. I I get canceled on 212 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.000 Twitter like all the time, usually over nothing. Somebody got 213 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:00.279 mad at me the other day because I jokingly said 214 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.840 I was the main spokesperson for the trans community, like 215 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.960 all irony is gone and how people appreciate things. So 216 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.519 I kind of get where that conversation comes from. But 217 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.039 it's exceptionally funny coming from the director of a movie 218 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.360 that made a billion dollars and is a comedy. Joker 219 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.240 twenty nineteen is a comedy. I get it. It's a 220 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:22.600 serious meditation on mental illness or whatever. It's also got 221 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:24.919 jokes at it, like it's a fucking movie about a clown. 222 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.360 It's a ridiculous comic book movie. So I think that 223 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.200 idea that he was complaining about it was just very 224 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.679 fascinating to me and my co writer Brie L. Rose. 225 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:37.799 I think also just from this perspective of we're both 226 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:42.679 queer people and we're very rude. We love a quote 227 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.480 unquote offensive comedy. Like this idea that queer people and 228 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.279 trans people and people of color can't take a joke 229 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.480 is just so weird to me. It's just not my 230 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.360 experience in interacting with every marginalized group has to have 231 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.519 a sense of humor, especially think about early comedy in 232 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.559 vaudeville and like how important comedy it was to Jewish 233 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.480 people and stuff too, and that terms of expression, it's 234 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:11.200 just always been there as this thing to process the 235 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:14.879 fact that we're all other by societies. When that was happening, 236 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:20.159 Brie originally commissioned me to just re edit Todd Phillips Joker, 237 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.279 and I actually did start doing that. I started making 238 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.559 this kind of big feature length piece of video r 239 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.159 and as I was doing that, I was just like, oh, 240 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:29.679 I think I just actually want to make a joker parody. 241 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.519 And I brought those ideas about the irony poisoned drag 242 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.039 Queen to it and really just started looking at my 243 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.559 life and breathe through her life through this sort of 244 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.159 like comic book movie lens and the movie just like 245 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.799 really like we wrote the script pretty quick, Like it 246 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:50.039 really came together fast. I think, you know, like most 247 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.639 good ideas, it almost feels like it's something that already 248 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.360 exists and you're just channeling it or something. 249 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.399 How close is the people show to you versus how 250 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.320 close is it to Bree as far as your actual 251 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:01.919 real life. 252 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.759 Before I used to say it was fifty fifty and 253 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.240 that was partially to protect my family, But they've seen 254 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.559 it now, so what's the point in line? It really 255 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:13.600 is very much my life. And I think the thing 256 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.840 that was cool about it it was like, as we 257 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.960 were writing it and I barely knew each other. We 258 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.720 knew each other from working at Absolutely and we just 259 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.039 we didn't even really work on any of the same shows. 260 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:26.960 Like she would be in a writer's room for something 261 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.720 and then I'd be editing something else, Like upstairs and 262 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.440 we would just hang out at lunch and I just 263 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.360 thought she was hilarious and we were just the only 264 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.960 two queers really at this company at that point, so 265 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.879 I think we really just enjoyed making each other laugh 266 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.639 and had always wanted to work together, and as we 267 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:48.519 were we really got to know each other and connect. 268 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.360 Very similar upbringings. We were both from the Midwest, we 269 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.639 both came out pretty late in life, so there was 270 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.480 a lot of similarities there the main beats. And it 271 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:00.720 was a real gift working with herby because very early 272 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:02.840 in the process she said to me, I want to 273 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.360 work on this, I want to write this with you, 274 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:10.240 but this is your story. It's your face on screen too, 275 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:15.320 Like we're giving Joker your dead name. This is your thing. 276 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.399 So yeah, whatever people describe the movie as like semi autobiographical, 277 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.039 it frustrates me because I'm just like, it's just so 278 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.480 auto biographical. The only difference is I'm not actually the Joker. 279 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.240 I mean, I'm not just saying that for legal reasons. 280 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.759 It's pretty close to just what the first twenty eight 281 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:33.639 years of my life. 282 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.360 Were like and how big of a DC fan were you? 283 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.960 Because I can see a lot of references, and I 284 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.960 can hear a lot of references, even all the way 285 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:44.399 back to Batman eighty nine. 286 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.679 I think I've seen more Batman than anything else. I 287 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.159 think the only movie that I've probably seen more is 288 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.480 Back to the Future, Like I could quote that movie 289 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.080 in my sleep. I grew up reading comics. That's funny 290 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:01.240 because much of my life I had a learning disability 291 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.679 and couldn't really read that well. But I hit it 292 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.639 really well. I cheated all throughout school. I was an 293 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.519 honors classes. School was so easy because I was a 294 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.519 great cheater, a great little liar, and a little kiss 295 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.039 ass too, so I think the teachers really happy. Reading 296 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.960 was a challenge for me up until my twenties or so, 297 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.080 and comics were always this space where it was like 298 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:25.279 I found this cheat code to getting to just read 299 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.440 picture books. For most of my life, Batman was always 300 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.519 the one. The art was just so beautiful to me, 301 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:37.600 especially like the seventies, eighties, and nineties. Batman's just gorgeous, gothic, 302 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.759 and even when it's hoppy, I don't know. I loved 303 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.600 the movies. The first PG thirteen movie I ever saw 304 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.080 in a theater was Batman Forever, and I was six 305 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.960 years old and my dad took me to go see it. Honestly, 306 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.720 seeing the movie was an early moment and me realizing 307 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:57.559 I was trans I'm not really entirely sure why, but 308 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.840 it was something about Nicole Kidman's character, and I think 309 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.160 just like I was already so in love with Batman 310 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.039 at that point, and like watching just the romance between 311 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:11.039 her and Batman, and it like I just wanted I 312 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.799 not only wanted to look like her, I wanted somebody 313 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.920 to look at me the way he looked at her. 314 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.839 But that was a memory that had resurfaced while we 315 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:22.160 were writing The People's Joker, so we actually put this 316 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.319 scene in the movie that's basically that with young Joker 317 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.599 going to see this Batman movie. These characters are just 318 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.440 so in there for me, and I don't think I 319 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.160 really was aware of it until those ideas started to come. 320 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:39.480 I still read the comics. It's awesome when people give 321 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:41.920 me Batman comics. Now it's screenings and it's just, oh 322 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.720 my god, this makes the whole journey of making this 323 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.920 movie worth it, because now I just get free comics. 324 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.039 Fucking rules. There's been a lot of like bad ai 325 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.160 art and stuff that you could see pop up in 326 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.200 some of these comics now and stuff. But thankfully there's 327 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.079 a whole backlog of books. I could spend the rest 328 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.319 of my life collecting comics and I still will not 329 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.200 be able to read every single Batman comic. And I'm 330 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.599 gonna try, but it would not happen, I don't think. So. 331 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.039 Tell me about the actual making of the film. Did 332 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:12.440 you do this during the pandemic? 333 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.279 Yeah, pretty much. And I actually started like working on 334 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.359 the It's funny because like the way people talk about 335 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.519 the movie is being this kind of like groundbreaking thing 336 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.680 or like a like having a really non traditional style, 337 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:28.880 Like I really tried to make it like how those 338 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.240 comic book movies are. Like we really wrote a script 339 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:36.119 that was based around set pieces, and that was because 340 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:39.200 I wanted the set pieces to be impressive, Like I 341 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:44.119 wanted our batmobile chase to be visually interesting and be 342 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.640 like something that was like a batmobile chase you hadn't 343 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.839 seen before. And there's this whole like fight scene at 344 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.920 the end of the movie that's done in like the 345 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.799 Batman the animated series Bruce tim style. Like I was 346 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.640 like using it as this opportunity to just make movies 347 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.160 and that really the way studio make movies now, but 348 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:06.960 that like Zamechis Bielberg way, where they like come up with, Okay, 349 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.319 we're gonna have a time machine and there it'll be 350 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:13.519 like this is a nuclear explosion. No it's a refrigerator. 351 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.480 No it's a laurreent. Like really just finding that and 352 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:20.240 starting from this sort of visual place I think was 353 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:23.519 really important to me. So as Brie and I were 354 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.440 like working on the script, I put out this call 355 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.079 on Twitter. It's really the only good thing that I 356 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.519 think has ever happened on Twitter was the formation of 357 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.160 all the people that like worked on this film. And 358 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.960 I just threw it out there if any artists or 359 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.720 animators or editors wanted to come aboard write to us that. 360 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.880 I wasn't really expecting that many people to come out 361 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.079 of the woodwork, and it was just hundreds. So many 362 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.160 people wanted to just see this movie, let alone work 363 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.200 on it. Before we even had a script done, we 364 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.440 had this kind of crew of this team that was 365 00:19:57.559 --> 00:19:59.759 ready to start getting to work, so we started doing 366 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:04.119 character designs. I think in May of twenty twenty, we 367 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:09.240 were barely done outlining the script, and I don't know 368 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:10.839 it's like how I want to work for the rest 369 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.039 of my life. It's driving everybody I'm working with right 370 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.680 now completely crazy because I got like a few things 371 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.160 in development and they're just like, why are you like 372 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.240 talking about soundtrack and it's stup right down. It's just 373 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:23.480 a way to do it. I do think like the 374 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.559 script is most important, but it's a visual medium and 375 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.119 it's a sonic medium too, so we really need to 376 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.079 For me as a filmmaker and as a viewer, I 377 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.279 like to be thinking of those things like at a 378 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.640 script stage. And with that process in mind, I was 379 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.160 able to build an animatic of the movie before we 380 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:43.200 even got to set. I tried to think of the 381 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.359 movie almost as like an animated film, so it was 382 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:49.440 very storyboard driven, and even though there were these scenes 383 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:52.000 where it's very dialogue heavy movie, there's a lot of 384 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:54.319 that classic kind of indie movie way, like a lot 385 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.400 of very heavy conversational scenes and stuff. But even with that, 386 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.640 it was like getting those storyboards it out just so 387 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:02.400 we could figure out the pace and sort of the 388 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:05.559 music of the movie before we ever even got to set. 389 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.680 And yeah, it was cool. It was really like, I'm 390 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.119 really lucky that I got to just have this huge 391 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:16.559 community of DIY artists helping me make this thing. That 392 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.039 privilege was never lost on me, Like from second one 393 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.200 of just like watching the team form, it was the 394 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.079 motivating factor just to even keep working on the movie. 395 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.240 It was just like, I don't know any filmmaker that 396 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:36.160 has ever or will ever again have this many people 397 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.839 that wants to help them make her first movie. 398 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:42.160 When do you actually shoot it? Are people so in lockdown? 399 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.079 Do you have to get into each other's bubbles and 400 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.400 all that fun stuff that we had to deal with. 401 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.440