Speaker 1: With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 2: Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the bride and groom?
Speaker 1: Or sorry, we're here.
Speaker 3: We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost
Speaker 3: track of time.
Speaker 1: No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up
Speaker 1: quicker than a guess registered.
Speaker 3: In that case, I pronounce you lucky.
Speaker 1: Play for free at Lucky landslots dot com. Daily bonuses
Speaker 1: are waiting. No purchase necessary boid. We're prohibited by Law
Speaker 1: eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details.
Speaker 1: With the Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just
Speaker 1: about anywhere.
Speaker 3: It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the
Speaker 3: weather's five. But we're just going to circle up here
Speaker 3: a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that.
Speaker 3: It's just these cash prizes add up quick, So I
Speaker 3: suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right,
Speaker 3: and start getting lucky.
Speaker 1: Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Are you
Speaker 1: feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law
Speaker 1: eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for.
Speaker 2: You are now listening to true Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 2: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 2: written about him, Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker dck Every
Speaker 2: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 2: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 2: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 4: Good Evening. Since President John F. Kennedy's nineteen sixty three
Speaker 4: murder in Dallas, medical examiner and lawyer doctor Cyril Weckt
Speaker 4: was initially inclined to accept the official theory that one
Speaker 4: person alone was responsible for the crime. But as wek
Speaker 4: delved into the evidence with boundless curiosity and unprecedented access,
Speaker 4: he came to understand that America had instead suffered a
Speaker 4: cud'etat at the hands of rogue elements within our own government.
Speaker 4: Nobody else has wexed up close and personal experience in
Speaker 4: uncovering the facts behind this assassination, and now he is
Speaker 4: sharing it with the world. Co Authored by investigative journalist
Speaker 4: Donna Kaufman, this comprehensive book reveals Wex's analysis of the
Speaker 4: case's forensic and medical evidence. With his keen eye and
Speaker 4: sharp tongue, weck wields his scalpel on JFK's dubious autopsy report,
Speaker 4: the inept Warren Commission report, the misshandling of crucial materials,
Speaker 4: all of the key players, and the medium malpractice that
Speaker 4: has allowed the truth to remain hidden for nearly six decades.
Speaker 4: The book that we're featuring this evening is the JFK
Speaker 4: Assassination Dissected, an Analysis by forensic pathologist Cyril Weckt, with
Speaker 4: my special guest, investigative author and journalist Donna Kaufman and
Speaker 4: forensic pathologist and author Cyril Weckt. Welcome to the program,
Speaker 4: Donna Kaufman and Cyril Weckt. Pleasure to be with you, Dan,
Speaker 4: thank you very much for having thank you very much
Speaker 4: for this interview. Let's get right to the genesis of
Speaker 4: this book.
Speaker 5: Well, the origin. Donna and I worked together on four
Speaker 5: books previously. Dan, we got along very well. Don is
Speaker 5: an excellent writer, and I have a lot of wonderful
Speaker 5: cases to talk about, and we've got talking about JFK,
Speaker 5: and the idea came quite when you think about it, retrospectively,
Speaker 5: flowed to smoothly do a JFK book, and we've been
Speaker 5: working on it. I think about five six years and
Speaker 5: a lot of time, a lot of effort, a tremendous
Speaker 5: amount of research by Donna to correlate with all that
Speaker 5: I had from my years working on the JFK assassination
Speaker 5: up to the present time, including just a couple of
Speaker 5: national conferences that finished up yesterday. And so that's how
Speaker 5: the book came about.
Speaker 4: You talked Cyril about what you were doing on this date,
Speaker 4: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Where were you, but
Speaker 4: also where were you in your professional career at this time?
Speaker 5: Yeah, in nineteen sixty three, I was just developing my
Speaker 5: professional career, having finished two years in the Air Force,
Speaker 5: three years of law school, five years of plethology residency
Speaker 5: in sixty two, came back to Pittsburgh and sixty three
Speaker 5: when this happened, I was really just associated with a
Speaker 5: law firm. A few months after this, I became an
Speaker 5: assistant District Attorney and medical legal advisor to the District
Speaker 5: Attorney of Alleghany County. In January of sixty four and
Speaker 5: sixty five, I became sixty six, actually the coroner was elected,
Speaker 5: and I became chief Forensic Capologists sixty six to seventy
Speaker 5: and then I was cornered from seventy to eighty for
Speaker 5: ten years, and another ten year period later on from
Speaker 5: ninety six to oh six. So in sixty three, I
Speaker 5: was just a young Whooper snapper. That day I was
Speaker 5: in Los Angeles for a deposition on a case, as
Speaker 5: I recall, or meeting with an attorney, and I popped
Speaker 5: in to a doctor Tom Degucci's Los Angeles Medical Examiner's office.
Speaker 5: He was not yet the chief. Tom and I had
Speaker 5: met each other at the American Academy of Forensic Sciences
Speaker 5: and we immediately became close friends, a relationship that exists
Speaker 5: to this day. And this is a true story. It
Speaker 5: sounds almost like it's made up. I had no reason
Speaker 5: to create from bellies something like this. I was standing
Speaker 5: in the autopsy room of the LA Medical Examiner's office
Speaker 5: with doctor Degucci, looking at a gunshot room victim and
Speaker 5: other cases too. They're always jammed there, and as secretary
Speaker 5: came in, ashen faced, pulled doctor Degucci aside, whispered something
Speaker 5: to his ear, and then Tom turned and told me
Speaker 5: the president has been shot. He and I immediately adjourned
Speaker 5: to the closest, a restaurant that had a TV set,
Speaker 5: and we sat down and sat there for a couple
Speaker 5: of hours as things unfolded. So that's what I was
Speaker 5: doing on Friday, November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
Speaker 4: That would have been.
Speaker 5: Let's see, it was twelve thirty Eastern time. Pardon me,
Speaker 5: on a Friday? Would you say, yeah, on a Friday?
Speaker 6: It happened on a Friday?
Speaker 5: Yeah, didn't I say Friday? I'm sorry? I finally said Friday. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 5: I was just trying to get the time, straying that
Speaker 5: for the Pacific time, in the Central time, in the
Speaker 5: Eastern Standard time. But that's that's where I was before
Speaker 5: the phone call. Then I want to point out this
Speaker 5: is very important for people to know that the assassination
Speaker 5: on a Friday, and by Sunday, Hoover had already made
Speaker 5: up his mind and on Monday officially proclaimed to the
Speaker 5: world officially on Monday that the case was solved, that
Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald was a soul assassin. And on Monday,
Speaker 5: Lee Harvey All's role was already dead, having been killed
Speaker 5: the day before on Sunday, November twenty four, by Jack
Speaker 5: Ruby in the basement of the Dallas Public Safety Building.
Speaker 5: So Hoover already knew, already knew, he had checked everybody out,
Speaker 5: and he was able to do that over a weekend.
Speaker 5: This concoction, this conspiracy. And I love to turn around
Speaker 5: that epithet which they always hurl at us, the Warren
Speaker 5: Commission defenders and sickofans at the critic researchers of the
Speaker 5: Warren Commission, calling us conspiratorialists and so on. They are
Speaker 5: the master conspiratorialists and they have gotten away with this
Speaker 5: for going on fifty nine years. You talk about a conspiracy, baby,
Speaker 5: this is one to top every other and any other
Speaker 5: conspiracy that anybody can think of or find historically anywhere
Speaker 5: in the world. To continue, then with the link, we
Speaker 5: have what transpired in Dallas that Donna has referred to,
Speaker 5: and the body being taken then flown into Washington, d C.
Speaker 5: Over to the Professor Naval Center for the autopsy. To
Speaker 5: use the word in ept is being very gracious and
Speaker 5: very kind. Donna is not usually less soft and sweet.
Speaker 5: This is so important for anybody listening to this program
Speaker 5: who has still a belief in the Warrant Commission report.
Speaker 5: I want you to know, folks, evidentiary burden is you
Speaker 5: can't make philis. Diller into Marilyn Monroe. You have here
Speaker 5: the two pathologists, career naval pathologists by the names of
Speaker 5: Yume's and Boswell at Profess Naval Center called in to
Speaker 5: do the autopsy. You've got President Kennedy multiple gunshot wounds.
Speaker 5: You have to determine entrance and differentiate from exit, angle, range, trajectory,
Speaker 5: and sequence of shots. And you have to correlate those
Speaker 5: wounds in Kennedy with the multiple gunshot wounds John Hunley
Speaker 5: in his back and chest and wrists and fig That
Speaker 5: is an extremely formidable task that would make a trio
Speaker 5: of top match forensic pathologists of the utmost competence and
Speaker 5: expertise really sweat bullets. So who are Yumes in Boswell
Speaker 5: ready for this? They had never done a single gun
Speaker 5: shot wound autopsy in their entire careers. They had never
Speaker 5: done a gunshot wound autopsy in their entire careers. I
Speaker 5: want people who are Americans, I want you to listen
Speaker 5: to this carefully, and I want you to tell me
Speaker 5: how this could have been accomplished if not for the
Speaker 5: highest level, the top echelon of conspiratorialists in the government.
Speaker 5: And it was our government. It wasn't the Russians, and
Speaker 5: it wasn't the Cubans or the Chinese. That was ascertained
Speaker 5: very quickly by direct visits love of our ambassadors in Moscow, Beijing,
Speaker 5: and Havana, as well as phone calls from the White House.
Speaker 5: You can imagine it was determined darn quickly that they
Speaker 5: knew not a damn thing about this. And so that
Speaker 5: was the next link from what transpired in Dallas in
Speaker 5: taking the body out illegally, where the jurisdiction was clearly
Speaker 5: in the Dallas medical examiners hams to Washington. Okay, fine,
Speaker 5: actually it could and should have worked out to their
Speaker 5: advantage because then they were within one hour or drive
Speaker 5: time the top forensic pathologist country in New York, Boston, Richmond, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Baltimore.
Speaker 5: They were all there, and they had seven seven and
Speaker 5: a half hours or so to bring them together. They
Speaker 5: did not bring them together. Not any one of them
Speaker 5: was contacted. And in fact, then these pathologists failed to
Speaker 5: even speak with the surgeons at Parkland Hospital, eighteen of
Speaker 5: them who had worked feverishly on the president as to
Speaker 5: what they did, what they saw. And that then moves
Speaker 5: us to the next couple of links in the chain.
Speaker 5: But I'll stop at this point. Go ahead with your
Speaker 5: next question or Donna's comment.
Speaker 4: You talk about this autopsy protocol, the Armed Forces Institute
Speaker 4: of Pathology autopsy protocols is seventy nine pages. You had
Speaker 4: an issue with the autopsy President's autopsy report. How many
Speaker 4: pages was that?
Speaker 5: I think it shakes us on And by the way
Speaker 5: you mentioned the Armed Forces into the pathology, let me
Speaker 5: comment on that that was the mecca of pathology in
Speaker 5: the country. It's now gone. It has been absorbed into
Speaker 5: another part of the overall medical setup. The a FIP
Speaker 5: nice building where I went many times for conferences when
Speaker 5: I was in the Air Force and later where I lectured.
Speaker 5: That was located on the grounds of the Walter Reed
Speaker 5: Hospital in Washington, d C. And in that hospital at
Speaker 5: the AFIP there were several board certified, fully accredited forensic pathologists,
Speaker 5: military forensic pathologists right there, right there. And now to
Speaker 5: continue the link then, not just to have expressed this
Speaker 5: criticism in a not prominine fashion, but to give it meaning.
Speaker 5: The pathologists said and showed pictures and supposedly of an
Speaker 5: intact rear portion of the skull called the occipital area,
Speaker 5: the base of your skull posteriorly and the cerebellum, which
Speaker 5: is a part of the brain separate from the two
Speaker 5: large cerebral hemispheres located in the back and lowered down,
Speaker 5: they claim, and the pictures that they show have a
Speaker 5: brain that is intact, and they have a brain that
Speaker 5: weighs fifteen hundred grams. Let's go back to Dallas. These
Speaker 5: eighteen or so doctors who worked on Kennedy, including some
Speaker 5: surgeons who had done hundreds of gunshot wound surgical procedures
Speaker 5: working in the emergency room in the o R over
Speaker 5: the years, including the chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery,
Speaker 5: a guy by the name of Kemp Clark, a distinguished neurosurgeon.
Speaker 5: They described sabellar tissue being lacerated and torn from its attachment,
Speaker 5: and they described fractures in the occipital region of the skull.
Speaker 5: Who do you believe those good old boys from Texas
Speaker 5: who were just calling it what they saw and what
Speaker 5: they did working on the president there. And we have
Speaker 5: this on tape from our programs that we did in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 5: One of the surgeons, doctor McClellan, who talked about that
Speaker 5: in great detail and then you've got what Humes and
Speaker 5: Boswell said. And there were four star admirals and generals
Speaker 5: in the autopsy room that night at Posessa Naval Hospital,
Speaker 5: So that is the next link. And then the brain.
Speaker 5: An average brain, let's say a good sized man, that
Speaker 5: brain will weigh somewhere about thirteen hundred and fifty to
Speaker 5: fourteen hundred grams, occasionally a little bit more. The brain
Speaker 5: had been seriously damaged. Portions of the brain had been
Speaker 5: torn away. We know that. And yet they come in
Speaker 5: with a weight which no man unless he's a giant,
Speaker 5: is going to have as the weight of his brain,
Speaker 5: as they didn't, even not only conspiracy, but not one
Speaker 5: that was well thought of in terms of the medical
Speaker 5: forensic scientific ramifications, absolutely incredible. Before we get to the
Speaker 5: Zuffouda film in the single pollet theory and everything, let
Speaker 5: me go back to the autopsy to show you how
Speaker 5: horrendous this was. The doctors in Dallas had seen the
Speaker 5: gunshot wound in the midline of the base of the
Speaker 5: president's neck, and then they saw the big defunct on
Speaker 5: the right side in the rear of the president's head.
Speaker 5: That night at the festa. The doctors there when they
Speaker 5: took off the course of light garment that Kennedy wore.
Speaker 5: They found a bullet hole in the President's back. They
Speaker 5: did not know there was a bullet hole in the
Speaker 5: front of the neck because the doctors in Dallas ascertained
Speaker 5: that the bullet fortuitously had ripped through the trachea. When
Speaker 5: the brain has been damaged extensively, as in this case,
Speaker 5: the brain cannot function, It does not do its job
Speaker 5: in controlling cardiac and respiratory activity, and the person will die,
Speaker 5: no matter how skilled the surgeons may be in repairing
Speaker 5: the damage cause by the gunshots. And so in order
Speaker 5: to attach the respirator cuff from the oxygen machine to
Speaker 5: suction out mucus and blood and put in oxygen take
Speaker 5: out carbon dioxide, they had to expand that circular hole
Speaker 5: at the base of the neck. They did not do
Speaker 5: it malevolently or surreptitiously. They did what was necessary to do.
Speaker 5: And the comedians who did the autopsy that night, totally incompetent, inexperience,
Speaker 5: and having failed to talk with the doctors in Dallas,
Speaker 5: as I have already pointed out, never knew, never knew.
Speaker 5: Until the next morning, after they had given their report
Speaker 5: to Hoover and Johnson, they never knew that there had
Speaker 5: been a bullet hole in the front of the President's neck.
Speaker 5: It wasn't until Saturday morning, November twenty third, when they
Speaker 5: called down and spoke with the surgeon there in Dallas,
Speaker 5: that they learned for the first time that there was
Speaker 5: a bullet hole in the president's neck. Okay, and how
Speaker 5: do you handle that now? Then that ties in with
Speaker 5: what Donna has talked about opened up the door on
Speaker 5: the Zuppooter film. Abraham Zappooter, a woman's clothing merchant there,
Speaker 5: an elderly gentleman, bought a brand new eight millimeter Bellhall
Speaker 5: camera and went there to Dealey Plaza. He stood on
Speaker 5: the ledge coming out from a white curvy linear structure
Speaker 5: called a pergola. His secretary braced his leg and when
Speaker 5: the cars coming down Main Street, turning right onto Houston
Speaker 5: and then left onto Elm Street, and proceeding downward into
Speaker 5: the left on Elm Street, that's when Zappooter started his film.
Speaker 5: It turned out to be the most important photographic evidence
Speaker 5: in this case, the most i piece of evidence of
Speaker 5: any kind in this case, and that camera was studied.
Speaker 5: It was determined that eighteen point three frames of that
Speaker 5: film strip went through the camera per second. Then, for
Speaker 5: people who are younger and don't know about the cameras
Speaker 5: that those of us who are over forty five point
Speaker 5: fifty recall from our high school and college days when
Speaker 5: a film was shown to us in the classroom. You
Speaker 5: have a spool of film and you unloosened it and
Speaker 5: you put it onto spockets, and then it moved in
Speaker 5: serpentine fashion inside the camera box, and that's when you
Speaker 5: get a film. Each individual unit is called a frame.
Speaker 5: That Bellhall camera was studied by the Bellhall people and
Speaker 5: the FBI, and it was determined that eighteen point three
Speaker 5: frames of the film strip moved through the camera per second.
Speaker 5: So there I was at Life magazine headquarters in December
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty six, having been invited by Josiah Thompson, who
Speaker 5: has become a very close friend and a top notch critic.
Speaker 5: Researcher of the Warrant Commission report invited me. He had
Speaker 5: been retained by Life Magazine, and I went up there
Speaker 5: and I studied the Zaffruiter film, which Life Magazine had
Speaker 5: acquired a large sum to Zafruter for that film, and
Speaker 5: I could study the shooting of the President and the
Speaker 5: wounding of John Connolly at eighteenth second intervals. Think about that,
Speaker 5: there's not a word. You can utter, a move, and
Speaker 5: you can make a thought, you can entertain eighteen times
Speaker 5: in one second, but you can study this shooting at
Speaker 5: one eighteenth second intervals. And so they had that time frame,
Speaker 5: and the next timeframe was the firing of the alleged
Speaker 5: murder weapon, a Manniker Karkano, a bolt action non automatic
Speaker 5: carving developed in Italy going into World War Two, Considered
Speaker 5: by every long gun expert of it. He's spoken to
Speaker 5: as the most inferior weapon of his genre, of any kind.
Speaker 5: And there was determined in the hands of the most
Speaker 5: skilled marchmen, which Oswald was not. That it's a two
Speaker 5: point three seconds from shot to shot, without allowing time
Speaker 5: for re aiming and repositioning at a moving target. Two
Speaker 5: point three seconds from shot to shot. Back to the
Speaker 5: Zappruter film, which clearly shows Connolly being hit one point
Speaker 5: five seconds after Kennedy is hit. The first time you've
Speaker 5: seen the Zuppooter film, Kennedy's hands coming up to his
Speaker 5: mouth and throat, then Connolly being hit, and that's one
Speaker 5: point five seconds. So that presented a hell of a problem,
Speaker 5: a seemingly impossible physical temporal incongruity. How do you get
Speaker 5: away with it? Oswald is a soul assassin. Everybody has
Speaker 5: been told that he's now dead. The case has been
Speaker 5: wrapped up in a blue ribbon. How do you deal
Speaker 5: with Connolly being hit one point five seconds after Kennedy
Speaker 5: has hit if it takes two point three seconds from
Speaker 5: shot to shot. And that is what gave birth to
Speaker 5: the next big link in this conspiratorial chain headed up
Speaker 5: by the top spooks and military people in this country.
Speaker 5: That is what gave birth to the single bullet theory.
Speaker 5: Arlen Spector, junior legal consul later to become senior US
Speaker 5: Senator from Pennsylvania, is the one who has given credit
Speaker 5: for coming up with a single bullet theory. Faced with
Speaker 5: this incredible dilemma, what the hell to do? They said, Well,
Speaker 5: what if a bullet hit Kennedy in the back and
Speaker 5: went out his throat? And to begin with, by the way,
Speaker 5: there's an upward angle of eleven and a half degrees
Speaker 5: from back to front. Well, how to my colleagues who
Speaker 5: were on the forensic cathology panel of the House Select
Speaker 5: Committee and Assassinations, and eight other forensic pathologists and the
Speaker 5: even ninth tent. How do they deal with that? They said, Well,
Speaker 5: maybe the President was leaning down to Tiny's shoelace so
Speaker 5: scratches groin, which he was obviously not doing. So the
Speaker 5: bullet who's upward and emerges from the front of Kennedy's
Speaker 5: neck a single bullet, theory, and it swings over eighteen
Speaker 5: twenty inches in mid air, hits Conley behind the right armpit,
Speaker 5: not on the left side. The bullet is moving downward
Speaker 5: and leftward, having been fired according to them, from the
Speaker 5: sixth flour window of the Texas school Book Depository building.
Speaker 5: It moves over eighteen twenty inches, turns in midair, slams
Speaker 5: into Conley behind the right armpit. It goes into the chest,
Speaker 5: pierces the right lung, destroys four inches of the right
Speaker 5: fifth rib, emerges from below nipple level. Look at the
Speaker 5: Zupputer film is holding that big white stetson hat at
Speaker 5: shoulder level, waving to the crowd shoulder level with the
Speaker 5: white sets and hat. The bullet emerges from his chest
Speaker 5: below the nipple level, hooks back up and around about
Speaker 5: eight ten inches slams into the back of the distal
Speaker 5: right forearm, causes a combinative facture of the radius. One
Speaker 5: of the two large long bones from the elbow to
Speaker 5: the wrists emerges from the front of his right wrist,
Speaker 5: goes into the left eye, and then, somehow, having not
Speaker 5: been seen or heard by anybody in the r working
Speaker 5: on Conley or so on, is found quite fortuitously by
Speaker 5: Dyryl Tomlinson, a maintenance man at Parkland Hospital, trying to
Speaker 5: get to the men's room after the presidential entourage had left.
Speaker 5: Finding the corridors blocked by stretchers, bent down, moved the stretcher,
Speaker 5: and lo and behold there was this magic bullet, as
Speaker 5: Mark Lane first called it, the magic bullet theory, which
Speaker 5: I and others have used since then, the magic bullet theory.
Speaker 5: There it was now known as Commission Exhibit three ninety
Speaker 5: nine military jacketed jacketed military ammunition lead core one and
Speaker 5: a quarter inch in length quarter of an inch in diameter.
Speaker 5: There it lay in pristine condition, uh, just to be found, fortunately,
Speaker 5: in that accidental fashion. And that is the single bullet theory.
Speaker 5: The Senaqunon of the Warrant Commission report. You don't have
Speaker 5: a single bullet theory. You've got your two shooters before
Speaker 5: you get into anything else. All the people, they are
Speaker 5: a daily plasive running up to the grassy knole, people
Speaker 5: seeing people, guys behind the grassy knole moving in furtive fashion,
Speaker 5: and so on, someone seeing a puff of smoke, and
Speaker 5: then getting into the medical stuff, which we can talk
Speaker 5: about a little bit later and won't digress at this point.
Speaker 5: There you have this incredible single bullet theory which they
Speaker 5: were stuck with and that they came up with to
Speaker 5: answer this impossible correlation that just did not fit between
Speaker 5: the timing scene depicted in the Zuppruiter film and the
Speaker 5: timing determined by the firing of the manicer Carcanno weapon.
Speaker 5: Seven wounds this is is seven wounds and two men.
Speaker 5: Seven wounds and two men a bullet. Let me tell you,
Speaker 5: she just finished this quickly. In his pristine state weighs
Speaker 5: one hundred and sixty one grains. The bullet found weighed
Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty eight point six grains. A loss
Speaker 5: of two point four grains is exactly one and a
Speaker 5: half percent, And yet fragments of the bullet were found
Speaker 5: in four anatomic locations of Kennedy and Conley. And we're
Speaker 5: told that that bullet just lost leaving pieces of itself
Speaker 5: one and a half percent of his total weight original weight,
Speaker 5: and having broken two bones. And Conley was a six
Speaker 5: point six foot four big bone, not a dainty little
Speaker 5: ninety year old, and that ninety pounds woman. Okay, that
Speaker 5: bullet is in completely intact, just a little bit of
Speaker 5: crimping at the base, the nose, the cone, the jacket,
Speaker 5: completely intact, having broken these two large bones, and the
Speaker 5: trajectory I've already talked about, So put together the weight,
Speaker 5: the condition of the bullet, and the trajectory, and those
Speaker 5: are all the necessary correlates of the single bullet theory.
Speaker 5: So anybody listening to this program who still believes in
Speaker 5: the Warren Commission report, and when you're through buying bridges
Speaker 5: in Brooklyn, come back to this and deal with Humes
Speaker 5: and Boswell and deal with everything we've talked about, and
Speaker 5: deal with the single bullet theory. That, my friends, is
Speaker 5: the burden for the defenders and sycophants and naives who
Speaker 5: continue to buy the Warrent Commission report.
Speaker 4: Let's use this opportunity to stop to hear from our
Speaker 4: sponsor talk Space. People around us make a huge impact
Speaker 4: on our lives, and life's pressures can cause these relationships
Speaker 4: change for better or worse, especially in light of the
Speaker 4: last eighteen months. Frustration can grow when dealing with friends, family,
Speaker 4: or your partner. Whether you're having complicated feelings about a
Speaker 4: relationship or just need a neutral person to talk to,
Speaker 4: Talkspace online therapy connects you to a license professional to
Speaker 4: help you work through it from the privacy of your
Speaker 4: own home. You can speak with a professional therapist at
Speaker 4: Talkspace to set goals with your Talkspace therapist and develop
Speaker 4: techniques to cope in these difficult times. Talkspace is the
Speaker 4: number one online therapy platform. There are thousands of licensed
Speaker 4: therapists available for you to match with across dozens of
Speaker 4: specialties including anxiety, depression, relationships, and more. If you need
Speaker 4: a little support to help you through the end of
Speaker 4: the year or want to start building towards a better
Speaker 4: upcome coming year, Talkspace is here. Match with a licensed
Speaker 4: therapist when you go to talkspace dot com and get
Speaker 4: one hundred dollars off your first month with the promo
Speaker 4: code true Murder. That's one hundred dollars off when you
Speaker 4: use code true murder at talkspace dot com. How is
Speaker 4: that that you obtain access to the National Archives and
Speaker 4: John Kennedy's autopsy report and evidence.
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, this is part of the conspiracy. In
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty five, they came up with an executive order
Speaker 5: the likes of which have never been seen before or since,
Speaker 5: claiming the Jacqueline Kennedy, as the widow of the president,
Speaker 5: was the owner, that he was the owner of the rifle,
Speaker 5: the bullets, the bullet fragments, the X rays, the photographs,
Speaker 5: the clothing and even John Conny's clothing and and built
Speaker 5: of fragments and so on. So this was in April
Speaker 5: of sixty five. Then in October of sixty six, one
Speaker 5: and a half years later, two of the pathologists and
Speaker 5: a radiologist and a fourth doctor went in in October
Speaker 5: of sixty six and did an inventory on that material.
Speaker 5: The part of the executive order was that nobody could
Speaker 5: see those things for seventy five years, with the exceptions.
Speaker 5: It quotes a recognized expert in a field of pathology
Speaker 5: with a serious historic purpose interest unquote. It could apply
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy one, five years later I was the
Speaker 5: president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, President of
Speaker 5: the American College of Legal Medicine, corner of Allegheny Conomy
Speaker 5: Board Certified Forensic Pathologists. I applied. I won't take up
Speaker 5: time and tell you how they jagged me around for
Speaker 5: all that time. And finally Fred Graham of the New
Speaker 5: York Times, whom I did not know heard about it,
Speaker 5: called me up. He intervened and with Burke Marshall, who
Speaker 5: had been made the executor of that agreement when he
Speaker 5: was Assistant Attorney General and who at the time then
Speaker 5: later was a law school professor at Yale and still
Speaker 5: playing games with me and making me go up to
Speaker 5: new Haven. I didn't think or do that happens to
Speaker 5: be my second home and with most of my closest
Speaker 5: friends there. I was delighted to go to New Haven,
Speaker 5: and I finally got in, so there I am in
Speaker 5: August of nineteen seventy two. They jagged me Iran for
Speaker 5: a year, and that is when I made a discovery,
Speaker 5: a discovery like Columbus discovered America. Forget the Vikings who
Speaker 5: had discovered it three four hundred years before. Forget the
Speaker 5: fact that many doctors and others knew what was there
Speaker 5: and what was not there, and never said a word,
Speaker 5: never said a word. Top notch people, including my former
Speaker 5: chief where I trained in Baltimore, doctor Russell Fisher, and
Speaker 5: including the neuropathologist from that office, Richard Lindenberg, never said
Speaker 5: a word about what I discovered and what was Page one,
Speaker 5: New York Times, August twenty fourth, nineteen seventy two. President's
Speaker 5: brain missing. The brain and the fresh state when it
Speaker 5: has been heavily damaged, cannot be properly examined. It is
Speaker 5: like a fifth viscous substance as much as it is
Speaker 5: a salad, a solid. You fix it in formula and
Speaker 5: the universal fix it a solution that hardens tissues, and
Speaker 5: you convert the consistency from that of a well done
Speaker 5: software day to a hardware dagg. I don't mean to
Speaker 5: be crude, but there's no better metaphor to understand what
Speaker 5: you're dealing with. And you then get that brain two
Speaker 5: weeks later, and you slice it from side to side
Speaker 5: and you examine it, and in this case, it would
Speaker 5: have shown the hemorrhagic trajectories, the courses of the bullets
Speaker 5: through the brain. The brain was not dissected, the brain
Speaker 5: was never examined, and the brain was missing. Today as
Speaker 5: we talk fifty some years later, let's see, nineteen seventy
Speaker 5: two is when I discovered it. So that's twenty eight
Speaker 5: and twenty one is forty nine, and going back to
Speaker 5: sixty three fifty nine, and that brain remains missing, unaccounted for.
Speaker 5: And that is the next big link in this conspiratorial
Speaker 5: continuum chain that has been controlled by the government with
Speaker 5: the passive silence, passive blessing of the news media New
Speaker 5: York Times at all, accepting it in this kind of obsequious,
Speaker 5: unquestioning fashion. The missing brain does that tell you something?
Speaker 5: So that is very important to know. And keep in
Speaker 5: mind that the evidence, the key part of the evidence
Speaker 5: in which he was claiming that he wasn't a shooter
Speaker 5: or somebody else did the fatal shooting or so on,
Speaker 5: that evidence, the brain missing. That is referred to as
Speaker 5: a formal official legal doctrine recognized in every jurisdiction and
Speaker 5: under federal criminal Code as e spoliation of evidence. The
Speaker 5: words spoil, they leave that the eye spoil. It's called
Speaker 5: spoliation of evidence. And in my opinion and of course
Speaker 5: we'll never know, but I'm sure every law school professor
Speaker 5: would back me up on this, and every trial attorney,
Speaker 5: a key at commanial defense child attorney would would agree
Speaker 5: with this that if that were the situation and Oswald
Speaker 5: was in trial and the brain was not there to
Speaker 5: be examined by his expert, that spoliation of evidence, whatever
Speaker 5: it was, would have led to charges being dropped. That
Speaker 5: kind of spoliation of evidence not only would have shifted
Speaker 5: the burden or proof, which is what it does the minimus,
Speaker 5: but would have prohibited Oswald from defending himself properly and
Speaker 5: would have led to the case being thrown out of court.
Speaker 5: So I mentioned this not to get into, you know,
Speaker 5: legal discussions, but for people to understand the magnitude, the extent,
Speaker 5: the continuum, the word I've used now. I like that
Speaker 5: very much, John. I keep it in mind when we
Speaker 5: refer to this, the continuum of this incredible, masterful conspiracy,
Speaker 5: and it goes on. And as we discussed in a
Speaker 5: national conference of KAPA Committee Against Political Assassinations, a national
Speaker 5: organization of which I am the chairman. We just finished
Speaker 5: a weekend conference and we had a wonderful panel top
Speaker 5: match experts, including somebody that had been with Life magazine
Speaker 5: which purchased a suffruiter film. As they pointed out before
Speaker 5: talking about the news media, discussing how the news media
Speaker 5: has handled this case from the beginning the present time,
Speaker 5: you cannot. I don't give a damn how if our
Speaker 5: book were to become a seller, and I don't think
Speaker 5: it will. People have had enough of JFKA. Regrettably, they
Speaker 5: should not have had enough. Everybody should be kept aware
Speaker 5: and made to think about this and teach the younger generation.
Speaker 5: But that that would. It just shows you that despite
Speaker 5: whatever impact my book, Mark Lane's wonderful book Russia judgment,
Speaker 5: Sylvia Mahr's Great book accessories out to the fact, Josiah
Speaker 5: Thompson's wonderful book Six Seconds, and more recently Last Second
Speaker 5: in Dallas, and other fine books by other wonderful warrant
Speaker 5: commissioned critic researchers. Despite anything and everything it has been
Speaker 5: pointed out in hard evidence, medical discussions, neurosurgical, neurological, and
Speaker 5: the physical and acoustical evidence. I want to talk about
Speaker 5: that for a moment. Two. Despite all of that, you
Speaker 5: can get the news. You cannot get the news media
Speaker 5: to cover this. I don't give a damn. You can
Speaker 5: write the best letters to the editor, you can write
Speaker 5: the best articles. They will not publish it. They will
Speaker 5: not publish it. This is absolutely unbelievable. And I want
Speaker 5: to talk about one another piece of evidence, and Donna,
Speaker 5: I'm sorry to hog this, but the acoustical evidence is
Speaker 5: important to know about a motorcycle policeman writing behind the
Speaker 5: President's choir and had left his motorcycle lever in the
Speaker 5: wrong position. It should have been in the receiving position
Speaker 5: for him to receive orders. He had it in the
Speaker 5: transmitting position that then passed on sounds from Dilley Plaza.
Speaker 5: That record was studied by the foremost acoustics experts in
Speaker 5: the country, both Veronic and Newman in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and
Speaker 5: then by top notch experts Wife and Ashkenazi and Queen's
Speaker 5: University in New York, and they both separately, independently came
Speaker 5: to the conclusion that there were four shots fired, including
Speaker 5: from the front in the rear, and that evidence is
Speaker 5: what made the House Select Committee on Assassinations appointed in
Speaker 5: seventy seven, report issued in seventy nine made them conclude
Speaker 5: with a high degree of probability that there have been
Speaker 5: two shooters, a high degree of probability. And by the way,
Speaker 5: it is fascinating a House Select committee of a bipartisan nature,
Speaker 5: bipartisan nature coming up with that finding, and that too
Speaker 5: has been ignored. Oh, just a bunch of goddamn congressmen, Democrats, Republicans,
Speaker 5: top nache people in Congress at that time, who cares
Speaker 5: what they have to say after a three year deliberation
Speaker 5: and we just ignore that? Too believable.
Speaker 4: Now, cyl you talked about all this, all the people
Speaker 4: that were critics of the warrant Commission, and then afterwards
Speaker 4: as well that it continues to this day. Tell us
Speaker 4: a little bit about the Oliver Stone movie and your
Speaker 4: role in that movie.
Speaker 5: I was contacted by Oliver Stone and asked if I
Speaker 5: would be a technical consultant. He invited me down to
Speaker 5: New Orleans where he was filming it and where I
Speaker 5: had the opportunity to meet him and Kevin Coustler and
Speaker 5: David Teshi Joe Peschi playing David Ferry, and he gave
Speaker 5: me the script to review and asked me to look
Speaker 5: it over and a couple of technical errors which I corrected.
Speaker 5: He had Grahams instead of grains for the weight of
Speaker 5: the bullet and so on. And that's when I begged
Speaker 5: him and begged him to put in what I have shown,
Speaker 5: which Donna has depicted in the book, showing something that
Speaker 5: I demonstrate every time I talk about JFK pulling two
Speaker 5: people up from the audience, seating them in chairs thirty
Speaker 5: inches separating Kennedy's front just from Comedy's back, and showing
Speaker 5: what I have already described, the trajectory of that bullet,
Speaker 5: how it has to move horizontally and vertically. And he
Speaker 5: put it in and that's that wonderful scene when Kevin Cossler,
Speaker 5: playing this attorney Jim Garrison, shows the trajectory of the
Speaker 5: single bullet theory. So that was my role and established
Speaker 5: a nice relationship with Oliver Stone, who graciously has written
Speaker 5: the forward for our book and the JFK assassination dissected
Speaker 5: a wonderful forward by Oliver Stone, which Donna and I
Speaker 5: are grateful for.
Speaker 4: You have a lot of witnesses that were involved in
Speaker 4: the Warren Commission and other is not called by the
Speaker 4: Warrant Commission. One of the more interesting people that you
Speaker 4: spoke to was Marina Oswald tell us about that conversation.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had a wonderful private meeting with my wife
Speaker 5: and Marina Oswald for lunch, and then I continued with
Speaker 5: correspondence and phone calls with her over the years. Very interesting.
Speaker 5: And you know, she had strong feelings that Oswald, you know,
Speaker 5: who is not a wonderful person by the way, which
Speaker 5: is just a little aside. He wasn't a good husband,
Speaker 5: wasn't a good father, but she did not feel a
Speaker 5: little all that she said. He admired Kennedy indeed. And
Speaker 5: then another interesting meeting which Donna has portrayed so well
Speaker 5: in the book with George D. Mornshield. This is a
Speaker 5: multi millionaire Texas tied in with Texas oil millionaires, a
Speaker 5: white Russian and there he is in Dallas and he
Speaker 5: reaches out to befriend Lee Harvey Oswald just because Oswald
Speaker 5: has been two and a half years in Russia and
Speaker 5: the morenschild took him under his wing and treated them
Speaker 5: like a kind of a son. So that's for trade
Speaker 5: in the book too. These are wonderful pieces things in
Speaker 5: the book that you will not find in other books
Speaker 5: because they're very, very personal. And then my relationships with
Speaker 5: the Richard Sprague, who was appointed as head of the
Speaker 5: Legal counsul for the House slect Committee of Assassinations, and
Speaker 5: he resigned that position and discussed when he saw it
Speaker 5: was clear they weren't going to let him do things
Speaker 5: the right way. Followed by Robert Tannebaum, another good friend,
Speaker 5: who took over and who likewise became disgusted when the
Speaker 5: House Committee wasn't doing the job they should have done.
Speaker 5: And you have my discussion with Spray and Tannebaum in
Speaker 5: the book too. There's a lot of stuff in the
Speaker 5: book really which is fascinating for people who want to
Speaker 5: get a full background on this. And Donna did a
Speaker 5: great job and discussing the background of Jack Ruby from
Speaker 5: the time he was a young teenager, a mafia in
Speaker 5: Chicago and down there in Dallas, a restaurant owner, a
Speaker 5: nightclub operator, a pimp, a police informant, an FBI informant,
Speaker 5: smuggler of guns into Cuba. Jack Ruby, who just quite
Speaker 5: fortuitously that day wiring money to a former stripper, finding
Speaker 5: the driveway entering into the Dallas Public Safety Building open,
Speaker 5: just casually walked on like you or I could have
Speaker 5: done if we were visitors in Dallas that day and
Speaker 5: just happens precisely at that moment for Oswald to be
Speaker 5: escorted out between two non uniform detectors and Ruby stuff
Speaker 5: forward and shoots Oswald, and that's the end of Oswald.
Speaker 4: You also, Donna and yourself explore the possibilities, well not
Speaker 4: the possibilities, but the fact that a psychologist with a
Speaker 4: definitely controversial background, Jolly West, was the last person to
Speaker 4: speak to Jack Ruby. So you in this very comprehensive
Speaker 4: book you explore that that's anaria as well, that what
Speaker 4: was he doing speaking to Jack Ruby and what was
Speaker 4: the influence of that last conversation with him.
Speaker 6: This sirehead was completely upon of the CIA, like de Mourinshield,
Speaker 6: who was the babysitter of Lee, Harvey, Oswald and Marina.
Speaker 6: A lot of people are not officially in the CIA,
Speaker 6: but they derived a relationships or financial benefits from being
Speaker 6: friendly to the CIA. And Jolly West was a guy
Speaker 6: who just went off the rails in terms of creating
Speaker 6: programs of mindwashing and all sorts of playing with people's
Speaker 6: psyches as an experiment for the CIA. And we get
Speaker 6: into some of this also with the Robert Kennedy case.
Speaker 6: There's a chapter in there about assassination nation. The Robert
Speaker 6: Kennedy case is another one where accuing evidence was not
Speaker 6: shown in court. Doctor Thomas Magucie who did that autopsy
Speaker 6: and Cyril consulted on it. By the way, that report
Speaker 6: is sixty pages long, as opposed to JFKSE which was
Speaker 6: sixty is long. So the people who played the played
Speaker 6: ball with the government got all sorts of benefits. The
Speaker 6: people who didn't were told that they were an American
Speaker 6: and you know, conspiracist. So but the people they some
Speaker 6: of the people are just larger than life characters, and
Speaker 6: Jolly West is one of those, for sure.
Speaker 5: Yes, you we're very proud of it, and I believe
Speaker 5: they had done it, did a great job and with
Speaker 5: the background information in my personal involvement putting that all together,
Speaker 5: and I think this is a book anybody not only
Speaker 5: with an interest in JFK, but an interest in how
Speaker 5: things can work in America, how things can be manipulated,
Speaker 5: the games the government can play. It's at a broader too,
Speaker 5: not that that was our primary, very objective, but it's
Speaker 5: a very important and tangential aspect of the book. Two
Speaker 5: to know about America in American history and to reflect
Speaker 5: upon it too as to what has happened to our
Speaker 5: country since JFK was assassinated.
Speaker 4: I want to thank you both, Donna Kaufman and Cyril
Speaker 4: Weckt congratulations on this book, The JFK Assassination Dissected.
Speaker 5: Then the book can be purchased directly from McFarlane Publishing Company,
Speaker 5: or it can be ordered from Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
Speaker 5: and it will be available probably the next few days
Speaker 5: or a week. You can place your order with Amazon
Speaker 5: or Barnes and Noble, or contact McFarlane Publishing Company and
Speaker 5: get it directly from them. So, Dan want to thank
Speaker 5: you very very much for your courtesy and having done
Speaker 5: it and me on the program, and I hope the
Speaker 5: program will be well received and maybe we'll have a
Speaker 5: sequel to us down the road.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Donna Kaufman and Sarah Wecked. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Have a great night. Yeah, thank you, thank you good,
Speaker 4: thank you.
Speaker 5: I know