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<v Speaker 1>Hey, this is christ with Hacking your Leadership. On today's

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<v Speaker 1>discussion around employee engagement. I want to kind of do

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<v Speaker 1>a follow up to the episode that we published on

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<v Speaker 1>Monday three days ago. We were talking about accountability and

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<v Speaker 1>we had a tremendous amount of engagement from listeners, lots

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<v Speaker 1>of LinkedIn and Instagram messages from people who are you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're wondering how best to hold people accountable when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to you know, the expectations, and it you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it got Lorenzo and I thinking about. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>most important elements of accountability is coaching. Because if if

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<v Speaker 1>the coach, if the accountability is on something that is

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<v Speaker 1>very clearly known and and you know, you know what

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<v Speaker 1>the rules are, the employee knows what the rules are,

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<v Speaker 1>and a rule was broken and it's very black and white,

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<v Speaker 1>then fine, maybe you don't need a lot of coaching

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<v Speaker 1>for that. You just need to make sure that they're

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<v Speaker 1>held accountable. But a lot of accountability ends up falling

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<v Speaker 1>on the heads of people who didn't have the skills

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<v Speaker 1>or the training, or the knowledge or the leadership to

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<v Speaker 1>accomplish the thing that they're now being held accountable for,

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<v Speaker 1>and that never feels good and so a strong culture

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<v Speaker 1>of accountability has to come with a strong culture of coaching.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are very specific elements when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>effective coaching cultures that will help you in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>holding people accountable and at the very least, it can

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<v Speaker 1>help you as a leader sleep well at night knowing

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<v Speaker 1>that if you have to hold somebody accountable for something,

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<v Speaker 1>that you're never wondering whether or not you gave them

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<v Speaker 1>the tools and resources and skills and abilities and support

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<v Speaker 1>that they needed to get it done to begin with,

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<v Speaker 1>and that their their lack of ability to get the

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<v Speaker 1>lack of it getting done is not rooted in anything

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<v Speaker 1>that you had the responsibility to provide from them in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I could go on for days. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>talk about coaching and accountability.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that there is so much to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>an unpack here because I think that for me, when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to you know, we term we throw the

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<v Speaker 2>term coaching around all the time everywhere for everything, and

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<v Speaker 2>it is the right term, like essence, it's the right term.

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<v Speaker 2>I think where we get lost a little bit when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to coaching and accountability is that that's where

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<v Speaker 2>we start. We think that coaching is accountability without the

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<v Speaker 2>true and belief of coaching is the intention of helping

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<v Speaker 2>somebody get better at something that they want to get

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<v Speaker 2>better at, you know what I mean, Like I don't

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<v Speaker 2>I don't go to like the local playground and see

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<v Speaker 2>kids playing somewhere and then start coaching them and be

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<v Speaker 2>like you you could, you could swing on those bars

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<v Speaker 2>faster if you do it this way, bring your elbows in. Hey, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go down to the local park where some

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<v Speaker 2>people are playing basketball and start telling them how they

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<v Speaker 2>should run plays or what they should do. Like they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't raise their hand to want to say, I'd like

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<v Speaker 2>for you to spend time focused on telling me what

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<v Speaker 2>to do to get better at this thing. I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>doing this thing right. Yeah, And I think that I

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<v Speaker 2>think that we forget that there's an element of coaching

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<v Speaker 2>that that is really based within culture. It's based within trust,

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<v Speaker 2>it's based within the relationship. That there should be an

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<v Speaker 2>expectation that if you work at a job and you

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<v Speaker 2>want to paycheck and you want to do things, that

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<v Speaker 2>you should be focused on doing those things well, and

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<v Speaker 2>that if you want to continue to work there, you

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<v Speaker 2>should get better at those things that you're focused on

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<v Speaker 2>Like that, that makes total sense to me. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think sometimes we jump into this idea of coaching and

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<v Speaker 2>immediately start with here's what I see in what you're

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<v Speaker 2>not good at, and therefore I'm here to make you

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<v Speaker 2>better at that, versus me saying Chris, let me tell

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<v Speaker 2>you what my role of coaches, my role of coach

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<v Speaker 2>in all of this together as I'm coaching you is,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to see what you do. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>jump in and help to correct it. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do this together. I'm going to be really focused on

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<v Speaker 2>what you're doing so that I can best help give

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<v Speaker 2>you advice on getting better at the thing that you're

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<v Speaker 2>working on. But here's what I need from you in this,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I need to know that you want to get

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<v Speaker 2>better at this thing. I need to know that you

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<v Speaker 2>are committed to putting into practice when I'm giving you,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want you to know that like this is

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<v Speaker 2>not like, it's not personal. I'm not attacking or trying

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<v Speaker 2>to tell you to be a different person or telling

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<v Speaker 2>you that all things you're doing are wrong. But like,

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<v Speaker 2>for us to have a great relationship from a coach standpoint,

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<v Speaker 2>we both have to be on the same page here

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<v Speaker 2>as to the value that we're both trying to add

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<v Speaker 2>to this and what the outcome is going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that like so much of that dialogue

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<v Speaker 2>and conversation is just assumed and it's never had or

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<v Speaker 2>it's like big picture, big theory, and we don't talk

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<v Speaker 2>to the individual about it, and therefore there's this massive

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<v Speaker 2>disconnect in the actual behavior of coaching, which then then

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<v Speaker 2>just leads into just accountability. And then it's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>then then you know, we're not actually coaching with the

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<v Speaker 2>intent of making better, We're coaching with the intention of

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<v Speaker 2>getting rid of you, and like those things, that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>work well if you're trying to build a true culture

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<v Speaker 2>of coaching, do that have honest accountability?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there's a lot of a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>issues and instances where leadership tends to blur the lines

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<v Speaker 1>between coaching and accountability. Even though they are far far

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<v Speaker 1>different things from each other, they're almost becoming synonymous in

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<v Speaker 1>the minds of a lot of people. And so what

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<v Speaker 1>I want to do is I want to start talking

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<v Speaker 1>about some of the ways in which those things are

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<v Speaker 1>different and how they need to be treated as different.

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<v Speaker 1>When you are interacting with your people. But first you

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<v Speaker 1>want to get up toward from one of our sponsors.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, If you're leader are people, you start thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about the fact that if you look at a coach

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<v Speaker 1>of like a sports team, a coach of like a

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<v Speaker 1>baseball team or a football team who's running a practice,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't look at that as punitive or like someone's

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<v Speaker 1>being held accountable for something. You look at the relationship

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<v Speaker 1>is that the coach is helping to train and teach

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<v Speaker 1>the team of people what to do. And so if

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<v Speaker 1>your idea of coaching is that that's a great way

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<v Speaker 1>to go forward, meaning you are working with your people

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<v Speaker 1>in order to help them get better at the skills

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<v Speaker 1>they need to get better at. If you're using coaching

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<v Speaker 1>as a term for what it means to go up

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<v Speaker 1>to somebody and say this is what you're doing wrong

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<v Speaker 1>and this is how you need to get better at it,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not coaching. That's accountability, and accountability can't be there

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<v Speaker 1>without the coaching. First, A strong culture of coaching has

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<v Speaker 1>to be in place before you can hold people accountable,

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<v Speaker 1>because you have to know that you've given them the

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<v Speaker 1>tools to be able to do the things that you're

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<v Speaker 1>expecting of them before you can hold them accountable to

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<v Speaker 1>actually doing it. They won't just have those skills simply

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<v Speaker 1>because you told them they need to have them. And

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<v Speaker 1>so when you think about coaching, think about a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of things. One, you're looking for development over direction. You're

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<v Speaker 1>not telling people what to do. You're telling people how

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<v Speaker 1>to get better at something. That's very different than giving

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<v Speaker 1>them a process. Anybody can give somebody a process. You

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<v Speaker 1>can write it down on a PowerPoint and email it

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<v Speaker 1>to an entire company. Development requires the interaction one on one,

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<v Speaker 1>and it requires people to be in to the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that you are developing them. The second thing is results

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<v Speaker 1>will never be there unless there's a relationship between the

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<v Speaker 1>leader and the employee. People aren't going to put forward

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<v Speaker 1>their best effort and listen to the things that you're

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<v Speaker 1>saying to them when it comes to coaching. If they

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<v Speaker 1>don't trust that your goal is to help them get

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<v Speaker 1>better and to help the open doors for them. If

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<v Speaker 1>they perceive your motivation for giving them the coaching is

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<v Speaker 1>how you can make their job easier, or how they

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<v Speaker 1>can make your job easier, or how they can stop

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<v Speaker 1>being a pain in your side, then you've already lost them.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the third thing is there needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>a support system in place for the things that you're

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<v Speaker 1>doing from a coaching standpoint, meaning the people you're coaching

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<v Speaker 1>need to be able to look at broader organizational support

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<v Speaker 1>for the process you have in place to coach them.

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<v Speaker 1>So there needs to be a an interval. There needs

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<v Speaker 1>to be a the amount of times you interact with

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<v Speaker 1>a person and what it's gonna entail, so that when

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<v Speaker 1>those things happen, those coaching interactions happen. They don't start

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<v Speaker 1>the interaction from a standpoint of Oh, I'm being held accountable.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm being held accountable. Then the defense mechanisms come up,

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<v Speaker 1>and then a coaching interaction might only last ten minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>If the first four and a half of them are

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<v Speaker 1>the employee having to come down from the defensive standpoint,

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<v Speaker 1>then you've already wasted half the session and you've lost

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<v Speaker 1>the ability to coach them. They need to look at

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<v Speaker 1>those interactions as something they can be excited about. Oh great,

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<v Speaker 1>here's another one where I can help get better. Not

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<v Speaker 1>another time where I'm being judged or hell accountable. Another

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<v Speaker 1>time I'm getting some one on one time to get

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<v Speaker 1>better at the skills I need to get better at

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<v Speaker 1>Almost like if your coach said, hey, we think you're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be great at this, I'm gonna have you work

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<v Speaker 1>with a batting coach, not just me, to get better

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<v Speaker 1>at this thing. Right there. You never look at that

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<v Speaker 1>as punitive. You look at that as oh, awesome, someone

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<v Speaker 1>is investing in me in my future to get better.

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<v Speaker 1>Your people need to feel the exact same way about

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<v Speaker 1>you and the interactions you have with them. If you're

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<v Speaker 1>calling it a coaching interaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's such a great call. I think it's It

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<v Speaker 2>reminds me of when we talk about development versus training,

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<v Speaker 2>and I will constantly say, like, development is a feeling, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because you get to decide like do I feel developed

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<v Speaker 2>or not?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Training is an action like I can train you on

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<v Speaker 2>how to do this. I developed you, I developed exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but we will say like I'm great at developing.

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<v Speaker 2>People will argue like do they feel developed? Right? Like

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<v Speaker 2>what are you doing to not just maybe connect the

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<v Speaker 2>dots on the language for them, but how are you

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<v Speaker 2>approaching the conversation, the dialogue, the actions in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that people feel like they were truly impacted and then

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<v Speaker 2>they got something from it, and it's the same thing

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<v Speaker 2>that you're talking about when it comes to coaching, like like,

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<v Speaker 2>there has to be this feeling, there has to be

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<v Speaker 2>this understanding, there has to be this this level of

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<v Speaker 2>trust and acceptance that we're doing this together when it's

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<v Speaker 2>at its best. And when somebody says, I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to get better, I don't care if you help me,

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<v Speaker 2>and I have no of changing my behavior, then that's

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<v Speaker 2>not even coaching. That's just like you shouldn't be here

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<v Speaker 2>and we're going to have a different conversation, sure, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So like let's not let's not bundle those things together.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're getting that type of pushback or that type

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<v Speaker 2>of attitude, then there's something else that's that's broken here

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<v Speaker 2>that has nothing to do with the intention around coaching,

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<v Speaker 2>but that that coaching piece should feel really great. And

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<v Speaker 2>when you have that, it becomes significantly easier for there

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<v Speaker 2>to be accountability amongst the team, amongst yourself, amongst where

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<v Speaker 2>you're going, because that trust aspect is now like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>the accountability is happening because you're not doing what you

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<v Speaker 2>said you were going to do or that we committed

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<v Speaker 2>to or that we agreed to. That's a different conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>But that is is, when done correctly, is coming from

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<v Speaker 2>a place of we've had these a great you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we've had these agreements, we've done these things together, We've

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<v Speaker 2>poured into the to the coaching aspect of it. We're

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<v Speaker 2>doing the best that we can. You're just choosing not

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<v Speaker 2>to at this point, right, I completely agree with that.

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<v Speaker 1>The last thing I want to say about this, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's really important to remember, is that you

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<v Speaker 1>as a leader, have to preface these coaching interactions as

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<v Speaker 1>what they are and make sure that your employees understand

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<v Speaker 1>this is not accountability. This is not telling them what

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<v Speaker 1>they've done wrong. This is not telling them how they've

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<v Speaker 1>failed you, or how they need to get better at

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<v Speaker 1>this or this is going to happen. That isn't coaching.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're coaching somebody, you need to tell them

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<v Speaker 1>what that means, what it looks like, and when it's not.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason this is so important is that there

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<v Speaker 1>are very few organizations and the workforce as a whole

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<v Speaker 1>does not have a strong culture of coaching. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty strong culture around accountability from leader to employee that

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<v Speaker 1>exists across organizations and as if an employee, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would I would make an argument that the vast majority

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<v Speaker 1>of employees have not worked for organizations that have strong

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<v Speaker 1>coaching cultures. And you combine that with the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not ubiquitous, and people will interpret coaching interactions as

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<v Speaker 1>accountability interactions unless you tell them it's not, and you

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<v Speaker 1>make them feel like it's not, and you make sure

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<v Speaker 1>they understand what the differences between the two, and that

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<v Speaker 1>your desire in these interactions is to help them get better,

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<v Speaker 1>not to hold them accountable or to make the paper

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<v Speaker 1>trail happen so that you can get rid of them.

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<v Speaker 1>It is because you desire an outcome that says getting better.

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<v Speaker 1>These things will open doors for you, It will make

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<v Speaker 1>you happier at work, it will create a strong relationship

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<v Speaker 1>between us of collaboration. All those positive things happen out

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<v Speaker 1>of coaching interactions. But again, you have to define them

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<v Speaker 1>as that so the employee knows what is about to

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<v Speaker 1>happen and what has just happened. Otherwise they will just

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<v Speaker 1>interpret them as accountability interactions. Thank you for joining us

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<v Speaker 1>in this episode. We'll see you back here next Thursday

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<v Speaker 1>for the next one. You have a great day,