Speaker 1: There's a special Saturday Nights nightcap on seven hundred WLW
Speaker 1: Gerry Jeff Walker. And as we all have seen, the
Speaker 1: mostly peaceful, fiery protests around the country continue in places,
Speaker 1: and today had of course the no Kings protest and
Speaker 1: thousands of cities and municipalities all over the country to
Speaker 1: protest President trump ice deportations, of the raids that have
Speaker 1: been going on, the things by the way that President
Speaker 1: Trump promised would happen if he were elected president, and
Speaker 1: also all kinds of trans rites protests to mixed in,
Speaker 1: because well, really, if you've been paying attention since nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty or since twenty twenty, hell since nineteen twenty probably
Speaker 1: the communists have been on the march in America. But
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty with the BLM and the Antifa riots
Speaker 1: and the takeovers that we saw there that were not
Speaker 1: mostly peaceful like we were all told by a lot
Speaker 1: of the mainstream media. We've seen this repeat again here
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, first off, responding to the ice
Speaker 1: raids in Los Angeles, and this is where the violence
Speaker 1: really began with the left and the people who were
Speaker 1: objecting to federal officials upholding the law I thought it
Speaker 1: would be interesting to talk to Mark Mix, who is
Speaker 1: a frequent guest many times. He is president of the
Speaker 1: National Right to Work Committee and National Right to Work
Speaker 1: Legal Defense Foundation, and he is our guest for this
Speaker 1: first half hour tonight, Mark Mix, Welcome to the show,
Speaker 1: and Happy Father's Day to you.
Speaker 2: Well, Garry Jeff, thank you for that. I've got six
Speaker 2: kids that hopefully will come say something nice to me
Speaker 2: on Sunday. I'm not sure, but I think I've earned it.
Speaker 2: They may not agree, but I think I have, so
Speaker 2: thank you for that. It's good being a dad.
Speaker 3: Well certainly.
Speaker 1: The SIU California president was arrested at one of the
Speaker 1: ice raids last week after blocking federal agents from performing
Speaker 1: their lawful duties like so many others have. But Mark,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, how involved are these public
Speaker 1: service employees unions in not only participating in these not
Speaker 1: so peaceful protests and the obstruction of justice and even
Speaker 1: financing them.
Speaker 3: What do we know so far?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Gary jeff Well, the president of the California SEIU,
Speaker 2: was part of a group of protesters that blocked the
Speaker 2: ingress and exit from a detention facility out in Los
Speaker 2: Angeles and that kind.
Speaker 4: He sat in front of a vehicle and wouldn't move.
Speaker 2: And then there was other kind of incidents that were
Speaker 2: involved in that particular event, and he was arrested and
Speaker 2: went to jail, and of course that became the cause
Speaker 2: celeb of organized labor was you know, this guy, our
Speaker 2: union official who's exercising you know, so called First Amendment
Speaker 2: rights when it comes to protest, must be released. He
Speaker 2: was released on Monday on I guess a fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars bond. But we'll be back in front of a
Speaker 2: judge somewhere, I think, to basically determine whether or not
Speaker 2: he's guilty of blocking a mission, you know, the mission
Speaker 2: of a federal agency as it relates to what they
Speaker 2: were doing. And I appreciate Gary Jeff that you said,
Speaker 2: this is granted what what Trump said he was going
Speaker 2: to do. He's going to enforce immigration laws, and they
Speaker 2: were going to take control of a system that'd been
Speaker 2: out of control for four years. But union officials like
Speaker 2: Dennis Warta, the president of the California s CiU, disagree,
Speaker 2: and so blocking it completely was something they wanted to do.
Speaker 2: And then we find out that these unions, the SEIU
Speaker 2: American Federation of Teachers and Noted Food and Commercial Workers,
Speaker 2: the hotel employee restaurant unions, the afl CIO, the iron Workers.
Speaker 2: They're providing resources to the groups in California that are
Speaker 2: behind these protests and behind what you say, mostly peaceful.
Speaker 2: I guess looting and breaking windows is mostly peaceful. That's
Speaker 2: not really that aggressive.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Mark, they were just they were just
Speaker 1: they were just having fun watching cars burn. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I always thought that a good car burning was a
Speaker 1: mostly peaceful pastime. Not in my neighborhood, thank god. And
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, Mark, I'm really surprised about
Speaker 1: the Teamsters, since they supported President Trump and they knew exactly.
Speaker 1: And I'm surprised that a lot of these labor unions
Speaker 1: are participating and helping finance and facilitate these not peaceful
Speaker 1: protests in places, this violence, in this vandalism, not because
Speaker 1: they haven't in the past, But don't they aren't they
Speaker 1: here to support the American worker, the American worker, American
Speaker 1: citizens or are they here you're mainly just as resistance
Speaker 1: as opposition to anybody.
Speaker 3: Who is for the American worker. That's my question.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 2: And it raises a very interesting point about the union
Speaker 2: movement in America today, Gary Jeff.
Speaker 5: When you think.
Speaker 2: About, first of all, the public sector unions versus the
Speaker 2: private sector unions, there is a disconnect there between those two.
Speaker 2: And then when you take the so called leadership of
Speaker 2: the unions and then you juxtaposition it against the rank
Speaker 2: and file workers, you begin to see the difference between
Speaker 2: the attitudes and values of the union officials versus that
Speaker 2: of the rank and file members. I mean, it is
Speaker 2: very clear that a majority, a fairly substantial majority of
Speaker 2: private sector union members and union households voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: But union officials, on the other hand, using money that's
Speaker 2: collected oftentimes in twenty four states as a condition of
Speaker 2: you keeping your job, turn around and spend that money
Speaker 2: on politics that rank and file workers disagree with. And
Speaker 2: I think that's the point here with the government unions.
Speaker 2: You know, there may be a different ideological difference between
Speaker 2: public sector employees and private sector employees. But your point,
Speaker 2: Gary Jeff, about the American worker and that five point
Speaker 2: nine percent of the private sector workforce that unionized, they
Speaker 2: have a completely different view of the world than the
Speaker 2: leaders that and I use my finger quotes. When I
Speaker 2: say leaders, the leaders they claim that they represent these
Speaker 2: workers and then to use that money that they collect
Speaker 2: as a conditioner of employment to fund activities. I think
Speaker 2: the more that's exposed, the more union officials will be
Speaker 2: held accountable by rank and file workers.
Speaker 4: And maybe, just maybe we'll get.
Speaker 2: A union movement that focus more on the shop floor
Speaker 2: than they do on what's going on in Washington, DC,
Speaker 2: or Columbus, Ohio, or Sacramento, California, or all but.
Speaker 3: In New York.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: The Trump derangement syndrome that seems to infected most of
Speaker 1: the Democrat Party and these union as air quotes leaders
Speaker 1: has spread, of course, to elected officials, like the California
Speaker 1: Senator Padilla, who was apprehended while lunging for DHS Secretary
Speaker 1: CHRISTI Nomant a press conference, basically looking like he was
Speaker 1: gonna bum rusher from the podium at a press conference.
Speaker 1: At a news conference, and he said, don't you know
Speaker 1: I'm a United States Senator. It's like, well, you should
Speaker 1: probably act like one. I don't know if you saw
Speaker 1: that video or not from this past week, but certainly
Speaker 1: there are members of the House who have acted in
Speaker 1: this manner who are essentially either breaking the law or
Speaker 1: breaking protocol. All he had to do was ask for
Speaker 1: a meeting with her or participate. I guess he could
Speaker 1: participate from the back of this press conference if he
Speaker 1: was called upon and ask her a question. Seems that
Speaker 1: they had a chat after he was apprehended after lunging
Speaker 1: at her. And you're seeing this over and over again
Speaker 1: from people that really are not acting like they should
Speaker 1: be acting to be in the position that this is
Speaker 1: a United States senator, this is one of the most
Speaker 1: one hundred most powerful people in our government, and he
Speaker 1: has to be restrained by officers of the law because
Speaker 1: he is breaking the law or trying to threaten a
Speaker 1: cabinet member. Is this is stuff is getting out of hand,
Speaker 1: and it's not just the unions that are involved.
Speaker 2: Mark Mix Yeah, indeed, and it makes for good theater
Speaker 2: and it makes for great headlines on the so called
Speaker 2: legacy media. I mean, the framing of this thing as
Speaker 2: it relates to how it all went down has been
Speaker 2: you know, you'd think you were on a different planet
Speaker 2: watching a certain media outlet versus another one as it
Speaker 2: relates to how this thing came down and how it
Speaker 2: how he acted but it got headlines, it got media,
Speaker 2: and to your point, Gary Get it folds into that
Speaker 2: kind of Trump derangement syndrome of saying, you know, this
Speaker 2: is what these alleged marches are going to be today about.
Speaker 2: You know, no kings or this national Day of Resistance,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it against the Trump administration,
Speaker 2: when in fact, to your earlier point, he's doing what
Speaker 2: he said he was going to do if people voted
Speaker 2: for him to be president the United States, and the
Speaker 2: majority of Americans, not only electoral college, but the popular vote,
Speaker 2: voted for a president that articulated safe borders, secure borders,
Speaker 2: law and order, rule of law, I mean, keeping men
Speaker 2: out of women's showers and bathrooms and sports. Those types
Speaker 2: of policies are what attracted Americans to this presidency and
Speaker 2: the Democrats and some of those people like Senator Padilla
Speaker 2: from California, who I guess I wouldn't have recognized him
Speaker 2: if he tried to bumblell be, but now we do,
Speaker 2: we recognize him. It was a good r stunt for him,
Speaker 2: And you're right. Senator calls a cabinet secretary, they get
Speaker 2: the phone call answered, they get the time. They just
Speaker 2: have to ask for it in a polite and civilized
Speaker 2: way as opposed to trying to make a media event
Speaker 2: out of it.
Speaker 1: And that's all it was performance theater, and so much
Speaker 1: of this is just immersed in performance theater. Mark mix
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you to because you and I
Speaker 1: have talked many times before. All unions are not created equal,
Speaker 1: and you have no problem with people wanting to be
Speaker 1: a member of the union if they that's what they choose,
Speaker 1: if that's the best option for them. But these public
Speaker 1: service employees unions, again like the SEIU and asked me,
Speaker 1: and the teachers' unions, they just seem to be so
Speaker 1: out of step with the rest of America. If you
Speaker 1: look at the polling, if you look at what the
Speaker 1: American people prefer, if you look at this deportation thing,
Speaker 1: in many cases.
Speaker 3: Is an eighty twenty issue.
Speaker 1: The trans movement and regarding men biological men being involved
Speaker 1: in women's sports that you mentioned earlier is pretty much
Speaker 1: an eighty twenty issue, and some of these unions seem
Speaker 1: like they're on the twenty side of that. Are they
Speaker 1: just used to being in the minority in this country
Speaker 1: or what is the reasoning behind that is? Again, is
Speaker 1: it again just opposition to American values? Is it opposition
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's kind of all of the above,
Speaker 2: Gary Jack. But what really predicates it, in what supports
Speaker 2: it is this idea that they can take away your
Speaker 2: right to speak for yourself, even though you never asked for,
Speaker 2: or never voted for, or never wanted them in your workplace.
Speaker 4: This idea of freedom of association.
Speaker 2: It presupposes you have the right not to associate logically,
Speaker 2: but yet union officials, particularly in the public sector, in
Speaker 2: the government sector, have been great this union monopoly control.
Speaker 2: And so when you can't be held accountable by those
Speaker 2: people you claim to represent, i e. You get to
Speaker 2: speak for them, they don't get to speak for themselves.
Speaker 2: And then when you kind of add in the liberal
Speaker 2: ideology of the most union officials, and I mentioned already
Speaker 2: the disconnect between rank and file workers and the so
Speaker 2: called leaders that represent them, you begin to get a
Speaker 2: picture of what it looks like. And in the private sector,
Speaker 2: I think it's changing because workers in America are getting
Speaker 2: tired of the radical views that union officials are taking.
Speaker 2: In the public sector, it's a little it's a little harder.
Speaker 2: We're seeing now the American Federation of Government Employees, the
Speaker 2: National Treasury Employees Union, asks me, SEIU those unions you
Speaker 2: mentioned that primarily represent government employees or have a big
Speaker 2: chunk of their of their membership as government employees, I mean.
Speaker 2: Franklin Roosevelt was against this, Gary Jeff. He was asked
Speaker 2: back in the nineteen thirties, when we imposed private sector
Speaker 2: forced unionism on the entire country, someone asked them, why
Speaker 2: don't we do this for government? Says, it's unthinkable you
Speaker 2: would do it for government. It's not the same. The
Speaker 2: afl CIO, the Executive Committee, the AFLCIO back in the
Speaker 2: late nineteen fifties early sixty said no, we're not going
Speaker 2: to unionize government employees.
Speaker 4: But for government employees, for.
Speaker 2: Union officials today, the government employee base, I mean, which
Speaker 2: is about almost half of all union members in the country,
Speaker 2: Gary Jeff. Today, our public sector employees are government employees.
Speaker 2: It's a final frontier for them. It's the you know,
Speaker 2: it's the idea that there's no competition and that your demands,
Speaker 2: if they're met, you know, they just come from this
Speaker 2: ever increasing flow or re rekindling flow of taxpayer money.
Speaker 2: As opposed to the private sector where if you if
Speaker 2: you make demands that are too great for a business
Speaker 2: to survive, you put people out of work. And that's
Speaker 2: where it is. And it's this unaccountability. It's this control
Speaker 2: and power and privilege they've been granted over the years,
Speaker 2: going back to the nineteen thirties and then from in
Speaker 2: the public sector and the government sector from the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifties on. And you're seeing a reaction to that now.
Speaker 2: People are starting to pay attention to the power that
Speaker 2: government union officials have liked the teachers union that's being exposed,
Speaker 2: and I think people are reacting to that well, and.
Speaker 1: The fact that teachers unions control elections in a lot
Speaker 1: of states, like my home state of Kentucky, where that
Speaker 1: is simply the only reason in an otherwise red state
Speaker 1: that Andy Basheer got voted into another office, another term
Speaker 1: in office as governor. With the teachers unions, especially in
Speaker 1: the eastern part of the state and more rural districts,
Speaker 1: because they are the largest employers in those districts. That
Speaker 1: turns out they have a lot of survey and a
Speaker 1: lot of power in places, even though their membership nationwide
Speaker 1: is so small.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their power is out of all proportions to their numbers.
Speaker 2: But that power is a legislative granted privilege, and they
Speaker 2: have used that extremely effectively over the des aids to
Speaker 2: increase their power, particularly in an election process. I mean,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you get into a place where government is
Speaker 2: the primary driver of local small town economies or county economies,
Speaker 2: and you see the power of that exercise and nothing.
Speaker 2: I mean, they go out and vote, they vote their way,
Speaker 2: but most of the time they're voting to get their
Speaker 2: hand in the pocketbooks of the taxpayers. And that gets
Speaker 2: really strange. And they do have power, but that power,
Speaker 2: again is a government granted power and privilege. You know,
Speaker 2: when you tell teachers, for example, a new teacher that
Speaker 2: comes in and goes through orientation is required to sit
Speaker 2: down with a union official for four hours before they can,
Speaker 2: you know, finalize the paperwork to become a teacher in
Speaker 2: a profession they you know, train for and want to.
Speaker 6: Be part of.
Speaker 2: And the thing you have to do is sign a
Speaker 2: paper that says, yeah, you got to you gott to
Speaker 2: join the union, you got to pay dues, and oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, you need to know that if you
Speaker 2: ever got sued in the classroom, we're here to protect
Speaker 2: you and we have insurance, when in fact, you know,
Speaker 2: politicians have tried, for example, for teachers, saying let's cover
Speaker 2: the teachers under the state insurance policy program, which it
Speaker 2: only costs us a couple of bucks, and of course
Speaker 2: the unions oppose that because it's a major draw when
Speaker 2: they scare the budjeekers out of these new teachers and
Speaker 2: create that power. There are many teachers that benefit to
Speaker 2: your point, Geary Jeff, to benefit and want to be
Speaker 2: part of the union because they agree with their agenda,
Speaker 2: they agree with what they do. That's all fine, But
Speaker 2: in the public sector we run into a real problem
Speaker 2: when you give a private organization power in between citizens
Speaker 2: and elected officials. And that's where the unions are positioned
Speaker 2: when it comes to government.
Speaker 1: Excellent point, Mark Mix, president of the National Right to
Speaker 1: Work Legal Defense Foundation. Now, are you are there any
Speaker 1: cases that you'd like to spotlight real quickly tonight before
Speaker 1: we conclude anything that you're working on right now.
Speaker 2: Well, we've been busy in Ohio and that area, Gary Jeff.
Speaker 2: You know, at the beginning of the year, we were
Speaker 2: working with some employees that at Freedo LA at Freedo,
Speaker 2: lay Warehouse and Wooster, Ohio, and some Omnisource employees in Toledo,
Speaker 2: Ohio that basically decertified the Team Stirs union. They had
Speaker 2: a vote and they threw the Team Stirs out because
Speaker 2: you know this disconnect between leadership and others. We're obviously
Speaker 2: working right now. There are cases all over the country
Speaker 2: we've got helping individual employees exercise their rights in the workplace.
Speaker 2: The Foundation, with our nineteen staff attorneys, have about two
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty active cases as you and I talked
Speaker 2: this evening, Gary, Jeff. So there's lots of work to
Speaker 2: do and lots of opportunity for workers who have questions
Speaker 2: about their rights in the workplace viause of the unionization
Speaker 2: can contact the Foundation and get help and get answers
Speaker 2: to questions. And so we're excited to be able to
Speaker 2: provide that to workers across the country.
Speaker 3: Who would they contact, Mark if you can real quick?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can contact the Foundation at NRTW dot org
Speaker 2: WWWNRTW dot org and there's lots of information there, or
Speaker 2: they can call one eight hundred to three three six
Speaker 2: thirty six hundred and talk with an attorney about their
Speaker 2: rights in the American Workplace.
Speaker 1: Mark Mix from the National Right to Work Foundation. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time, and again, Happy Father's Day,
Speaker 1: my friend.
Speaker 4: Thanks Jerry, Jeff, appreciate the.
Speaker 3: Time you got it.
Speaker 1: Ed Bartlett on Father's and Father's Day coming up after
Speaker 1: news on a special Saturday night night cap on seven
Speaker 1: hundred WLW.
Speaker 3: Is this half hour we're going to be talking with.
Speaker 6: Edward Bartlett Barmer.
Speaker 3: Who is the.
Speaker 1: Who is the president of excuse me, who was the
Speaker 1: president of the International Council for Men and Boys, a
Speaker 1: non governmental organization working to assure gender.
Speaker 3: Equality for all.
Speaker 1: Of course, we had the women's equality movement back in
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 3: Ed I don't know what was.
Speaker 1: The reason that you decided, and your organization decided that
Speaker 1: men needed a quality too. By God, and believe me,
Speaker 1: as a red bl lot of American male, I'm all
Speaker 1: for it. This is also the conclusion this week of
Speaker 1: International Men's Health.
Speaker 3: Week observed around the world.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow is Father's Day, and I wanted to tell you first,
Speaker 1: Ed that my dad is still with us at the
Speaker 1: age of eighty eight. He'll be eighty nine, God willing
Speaker 1: at the end of October if he gets through this
Speaker 1: lit if he gets through this little impasse. My dad
Speaker 1: has fibrosis and has been back in the hospital this
Speaker 1: weekend as a matter of fact for breathing treatments.
Speaker 3: He's doing great, doing better.
Speaker 1: But so what was there what was the reason initially
Speaker 1: for an international Council for Men and Boys?
Speaker 5: Yeah, great question, Jeff, And thank you for sharing about
Speaker 5: your dad and I wish him good health and happiness
Speaker 5: and a Swiss recovery. So thanks for sharing that. But
Speaker 5: to answer your question, so you've I'm sure you've heard
Speaker 5: the claim that there's a something that feminists like to
Speaker 5: refer to as the oppressive patriarchy, which is, you know,
Speaker 5: constantly searching for ways to oppress and discriminate against women.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, if I told you now that there is no
Speaker 5: such thing as patriarchy, would you be totally surprised.
Speaker 1: No, there is a much a much more base kind
Speaker 1: of thing that me and guys have said amongst each other,
Speaker 1: usually not with women around. And it's the fifty percent thing.
Speaker 1: It's fifty percent and all percent. And I'm not going
Speaker 1: to elaborate any further than that, Ed, I have never
Speaker 1: felt like there was a patriarchy in this country or
Speaker 1: in in the world as it related to relations between
Speaker 1: men and women. I don't feel like an oppressor, is
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you.
Speaker 5: Well, honestly, that's exactly how I have felt for many,
Speaker 5: many years and decades. So that feeling and impression that
Speaker 5: I had led us to actually look at the data,
Speaker 5: and not just in the United States. We looked at,
Speaker 5: you know, information from the World Health Organization, the International
Speaker 5: Labor Organization, the World Bank, et cetera, et cetera, to
Speaker 5: track down where does this myth of the feared patriarchy
Speaker 5: come from? Well, it turns out in twelve areas. It's
Speaker 5: the truth is, men are lagging behind women. Okay, you
Speaker 5: know we've already talked about men dying five years earlier
Speaker 5: than women, and not just in the US globally. You know,
Speaker 5: there's a problem of fewer men enrolled in high school
Speaker 5: and colleges these days. As another factor the fact that
Speaker 5: men who will go through divorce but children usually cannot
Speaker 5: get even fifty to fifty shared parenting. Another example the
Speaker 5: more severe treatment of men by the criminal system, even
Speaker 5: when compared to women who commit exactly the same crime.
Speaker 5: I can literally go on and on. There's twelve different areas,
Speaker 5: all based on good, good data, not based on you know,
Speaker 5: some ranting ide logue based on good data that says
Speaker 5: men are lagging behind women. So there is no such
Speaker 5: thing as but patriarchy. Let's say that loud and say
Speaker 5: it clear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me, men's health is lagging behind in funding research
Speaker 1: and obviously what's pushed in mainstream media.
Speaker 3: Ed Bartlett.
Speaker 1: So we really you're giving voice to half of the
Speaker 1: population who really doesn't have one in many cases when
Speaker 1: it comes to their health, especially with International Men's Health
Speaker 1: Week going on. So what kind of initiatives are you guys,
Speaker 1: are we guys pushing and what kind of initiatives can
Speaker 1: help bring us out of the out of the forest
Speaker 1: here and get us the kind of attention that we're
Speaker 1: lacking otherwise.
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, let me say that Men's International
Speaker 5: Men's Health Week, in fact is being observed all around
Speaker 5: the world. In fact, there's organizations and if I can
Speaker 5: just tell you the list of countries Australia, Canada, Germany, Ireland,
Speaker 5: United Kingdoms and the United States. In each of those
Speaker 5: countries there is a designated organization that's leading the charge
Speaker 5: and they're holding seminars, media campaign you name it. They're
Speaker 5: trying to get this issue into the public eye. So
Speaker 5: I think the key, you know, the question to answer
Speaker 5: to your question is we need to publicize these facts
Speaker 5: because again, there's still this narrative it's pretty widespread that
Speaker 5: says that that men are you know, are somehow you
Speaker 5: know hop pot have all of the power. And if
Speaker 5: I can, let me give an example of that. So,
Speaker 5: so I used to work at the Department of Health
Speaker 5: and Human Services, the federal DHHS. I was there seventeen years.
Speaker 5: I had a wonderful experience, but after I left, I
Speaker 5: learned a really dispariting fact. There are seven offices of
Speaker 5: women's health at DHHS against seven offices women's sealth. Zero
Speaker 5: offices of men's health at DHHS.
Speaker 3: Now zero.
Speaker 5: Exactly, there are zero offices even though men are dying
Speaker 5: five years earlier, and we haven't even talked about suicide issues.
Speaker 5: But you know, right there you have to say, wow, well,
Speaker 5: what the heck is going on? How did that possibly happen?
Speaker 5: And if I came, I'll give you the answer to
Speaker 5: that that question. So feminus like to float myths in
Speaker 5: order to support for flame of patriarchy. So the myth
Speaker 5: here is Oh, well, women were routinely excluded for medical
Speaker 5: research for years and years and years. Well, I have
Speaker 5: news for you, and it's not just research that I
Speaker 5: have done personally. A researcher named James nousoh and u
Speaker 5: Zzo recently did a report on exactly this and guess
Speaker 5: what he found.
Speaker 3: Zero.
Speaker 5: You know, you go all the way back to nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty six and beyond that, there was no exclusion, there
Speaker 5: was no under representation, there was no shortfall in funding.
Speaker 5: It's an absolute myth that has been created.
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds a whole lot more like a lie
Speaker 1: than a myth. I think you're being kind when you
Speaker 1: say it's a myth, ed Barley.
Speaker 3: But aren't guys? Haven't guys been to this point?
Speaker 1: And this is maybe why International Men's Health Week globally
Speaker 1: is so important, just from a matter of awareness. Aren't guys?
Speaker 1: Aren't we our own worst enemy when it comes to
Speaker 1: our health? Because you know, I didn't need anybody to
Speaker 1: tell me that I should see a doctor every year,
Speaker 1: But for thirty five years I didn't see a doctor.
Speaker 1: I didn't think anything was wrong, So why go even
Speaker 1: though we should all go get a physical or a
Speaker 1: wellness check? At least annually, if not more often. Women
Speaker 1: go all the time, but men tend to not unless
Speaker 1: their arm is falling off or unless something is majorly wrong.
Speaker 1: And you know this is true. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's part of the psyche of men. Have we
Speaker 1: been programmed this way or is it?
Speaker 3: Is it something else?
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're you're really raising a terrific good question. And
Speaker 5: and yes, I think it's fair to say that that
Speaker 5: call it part of the DNA and men that men
Speaker 5: tend to think of ourselves as strong and self reliant.
Speaker 5: I think that's not just in the US. I think
Speaker 5: there's that basic truth is true around the world. So yes,
Speaker 5: it can lead to men tending to deny their own
Speaker 5: health needs. I was personally, I was fortunate. I was
Speaker 5: a draftee in the army many many years ago. I
Speaker 5: ended up as a medical corman, so I began to understand,
Speaker 5: sort of at that gut level, Hey, you know, it's
Speaker 5: important to really pay attention to our health. So but yeah,
Speaker 5: this is I think this point that you're raising is
Speaker 5: a an important lesson for International Men's Health Month?
Speaker 7: Is that?
Speaker 5: And weak? Is that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Men, we need to pay attention more to our own bodies,
Speaker 5: our own health, make sure that the motor is still running.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Ed.
Speaker 1: When I finally went in August of twenty nineteen, because
Speaker 1: I literally felt like I was dying, I was having
Speaker 1: a heart attack or something. When I finally went to
Speaker 1: the emergency room, my blood pressure was two seventy eight
Speaker 1: over one eighty seven. It was the only time I'd
Speaker 1: ever seen a medical professional, this woman who was a
Speaker 1: nurse's aide or a nurse reading the numbers on the screen,
Speaker 1: and she said oh and then an expletive and ran
Speaker 1: out of the room to go get somebody.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: I found out that I had obviously chronic hypertension. I
Speaker 1: found out that I was a Type two diabetic. I
Speaker 1: found out that I had some minor heart disease. And
Speaker 1: I hadn't I hadn't been to the doctor in over
Speaker 1: thirty years.
Speaker 7: Ed.
Speaker 1: I mean, but this this is I'm just I'm not
Speaker 1: the only idiot out there. A lot of us guys
Speaker 1: are walking around and we're we're just walking time bombs.
Speaker 1: How how can you get the message out to those
Speaker 1: guys to let them know that, uh, if nobody else
Speaker 1: is going to look after our health, we certainly have to.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you christ All, thank you for sharing that
Speaker 5: personal experience. And I think that's that's the critical part
Speaker 5: of the equation here is is that that men need
Speaker 5: to speak out more about, you know, the challenges that
Speaker 5: we have faced. I've also faced in a way similar challenges,
Speaker 5: not high blood pressure, but other other types of physical
Speaker 5: challenges that I simply ignored until I start to realize, oh,
Speaker 5: I was a little bit over committed and I needed
Speaker 5: to cut back. You know. A big part of this
Speaker 5: is just to simply, you know, get these stories out
Speaker 5: and and talk about it and make it part of
Speaker 5: the general narrative of the public discourse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the events that were held around the
Speaker 1: world this week. In Australia they had the Australian Men's Forum,
Speaker 1: Health Forum. Canada, the Canadian Men's Health Foundation launched a
Speaker 1: national hashtag never Alone campaign to address the rising rates
Speaker 1: of stress, depression, socialized isolation among men. In Germany and Ireland,
Speaker 1: they all had efforts. What went on in the United
Speaker 1: States this past week.
Speaker 5: Shed In the United States, we have a very active
Speaker 5: group called the Men's Health Network again Men's Health Network,
Speaker 5: and they have been actually approaching all of the governors
Speaker 5: of every state asking them to issue a proclamation about
Speaker 5: the importance of men's health. The Men's Health Networks also
Speaker 5: been and with certain pharmaceutical companies to publicize this. So
Speaker 5: a lot is going on behind the back, you know,
Speaker 5: in the background that may not be in the public eye,
Speaker 5: at least not yet. But the point is that this
Speaker 5: is part of a growing movement to say, hey, men
Speaker 5: are lagging behind women in twelve different areas. One of
Speaker 5: those is healthcare.
Speaker 1: All Right, you're president of the International Council for Men
Speaker 1: and Boys, and I think it's key that this last
Speaker 1: part is key because boys become men, we hope, And
Speaker 1: are there any efforts to educate the younger of us,
Speaker 1: males of the species that you guys are putting forward.
Speaker 5: Well, one of the pull areas that we are very
Speaker 5: concerned about is what's often referred to as the boy crisis.
Speaker 5: There's actually a book written by a fellow nu Juan Ferrell,
Speaker 5: call The Boy Crisis that documents how boys are becoming
Speaker 5: increasingly disconnected from from their their families, from their friends,
Speaker 5: from their classmates, school classmates. So yeah, there's there's a
Speaker 5: real effort to address this and say hey, folks, we
Speaker 5: really have to wake up here not all as well
Speaker 5: with our young boys, or or with with other men.
Speaker 5: So yeah, a lot of this is simply public awareness.
Speaker 1: All right, And that's what you guys are pushing because
Speaker 1: you know, uh, there's a narrative that is preaching toxic
Speaker 1: masculinity as well as the patriarchy that you were talking about.
Speaker 3: That's a myth.
Speaker 1: I think toxic masculinity is another one of those pedled
Speaker 1: myths that we've been fed that actually hurt men. And
Speaker 1: and because men are important, and I think that's the
Speaker 1: whole crux of this conversation at Bartlett, is that men
Speaker 1: are as important to society as women are. Without men,
Speaker 1: you don't have a functioning society, you don't have a
Speaker 1: propagation of the species, you don't have a world that
Speaker 1: is livable without men. And it's important that men get
Speaker 1: their due. And I'm glad that you are doing something
Speaker 1: about that from a health standpoint and a mental health standpoint.
Speaker 1: For if people wanted to know more, how would they
Speaker 1: find out more at Bartlett?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sure. So here's our web address. It's www dot Men
Speaker 5: and Boys dot net, Men and Boys dot net, and
Speaker 5: on our home page one of the twelve areas of
Speaker 5: concern is men's health.
Speaker 3: All right, well, fantastic Again, are you a father ed?
Speaker 5: I am a proud father of three boys, so wholeheartedly yes.
Speaker 1: So you have been teaching your boys these lessons hopefully
Speaker 1: through the years.
Speaker 5: I've done my best. I'm not a perfect dad, but
Speaker 5: I certainly have done my best to be a wonderful
Speaker 5: good dad to my three boys, and I love them
Speaker 5: so dearly.
Speaker 1: Well, a happy Father's Day and enjoy the ties or
Speaker 1: whatever may come as a result of all this good
Speaker 1: parenting and the good fatherhood that you have displayed.
Speaker 3: And Bartley, thank you for being our guest tonight. All right,
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 7: Good to chat with you.
Speaker 1: Jeff, Yeah, fantastic, thank you, sir. Father's Day tomorrow. Guys,
Speaker 1: You're not the problem, but you need to you need
Speaker 1: to investigate these issues and make sure that there's not
Speaker 1: another problem, including your health, because it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that are over look by society and by proxy,
Speaker 1: we overlook too many times. Father's Date tomorrow, we continue
Speaker 1: this show Todd Sheets to talk a little economics on
Speaker 1: a Saturday night. When we continue on this special Saturday
Speaker 1: night cap, I'm Gary Jeff, and this is seven hundred
Speaker 1: WLW into another hour of this special Saturday nightcap on
Speaker 1: seven hundred wl W. And joining us for this half
Speaker 1: hour for this segment is a guy who kind of
Speaker 1: knows a little bit about the economy and trade, to
Speaker 1: say the least.
Speaker 3: His name is Todd Sheets.
Speaker 1: He's the author of, among other things, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: What Really Happened? And those of us who lived through
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight and the meltdown in the recession,
Speaker 1: it's a good primer on what not to do again.
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: Trump trade discussions and how do we get foreign relations
Speaker 1: back on track with the great reset of President Trump
Speaker 1: being in office now and Russia and China and now Iran,
Speaker 1: with Israel and Iran being at war. Of course, Israel,
Speaker 1: a little brother in the middle of the sea of monsters,
Speaker 1: fighting a seven front war of people that want to
Speaker 1: destroy their country and wipe them off the map, finally took,
Speaker 1: as you know by now, the kinetic action to knock
Speaker 1: out Iran's nuclear capabilities and their air defense systems. And
Speaker 1: Iran has responded, of course, in kind, with all kinds
Speaker 1: of attacks on Israel and civilian populations, and just wondering
Speaker 1: how this is going to affect the economic picture and
Speaker 1: the trade reset that President Trump has been working so
Speaker 1: hard to do to get us back on track financially
Speaker 1: as a country and with foreign trade.
Speaker 3: Todd Sheets, Welcome to the show, Garry.
Speaker 6: I'm glad to be with you again.
Speaker 3: Yep, good to have you.
Speaker 1: Basically, how does this war and hopefully it's resolved soon
Speaker 1: and Iran comes to their senses. I think that there
Speaker 1: is agreement among a lot of people that the only
Speaker 1: way there's a resolution to this now is for the
Speaker 1: Ayatolas regime to be upended by the Iranian people, and
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a whole lot of support for
Speaker 1: that within the country of Iran. How do you think
Speaker 1: that's been handled so far, Todd, And what do you
Speaker 1: think it means ultimately for the US and Israel and
Speaker 1: global trade.
Speaker 8: Sure, a couple of thoughts here. I've written in my
Speaker 8: sub stacked pieces on Wealth and Progress recently about these
Speaker 8: geopolitical issues how it fits into the big picture. And
Speaker 8: one of the points that I've made there is that
Speaker 8: I think, you know, we need to use our trade
Speaker 8: policy and our foreign policy to kind of divide the
Speaker 8: world into.
Speaker 6: Not to be too simplistic about it, but our allies
Speaker 6: and enemies.
Speaker 8: And our allies are people who are consistently countries, consistently
Speaker 8: peaceful over long periods of time, and who engage with
Speaker 8: us in trade and other commercial matters under the rules
Speaker 8: of law and the terms of commercial engagement, you know
Speaker 8: that have developed in the West and have been proven
Speaker 8: to lift hundreds and hundreds of millions of people up
Speaker 8: out of poverty and into a better life. And our enemies,
Speaker 8: instead of kind of dividing them by what they say
Speaker 8: when we're in a negotiation, or even what the form
Speaker 8: of their government is, or how much they've adopted our values,
Speaker 8: our enemies are the countries that consistently engage in hostile
Speaker 8: actions and aggressions against peaceful nations, and that consistently refuse
Speaker 8: to engage in commerce, you know, under those rules and
Speaker 8: standards that I just mentioned. And so I think if
Speaker 8: you look at that enemy's list, the ones that clearly
Speaker 8: fall in that category China, Iran, Russia, and North Korea,
Speaker 8: and that's where we need to be focused. And one
Speaker 8: of the other points I've made is that instead of
Speaker 8: going through these on again, off again negotiations with these
Speaker 8: countries where it's like, you know, they're sanctions for a
Speaker 8: period of time, and then we negotiate and the sanctions
Speaker 8: are removed, are partially removed, and then they go back
Speaker 8: to the old habits, and then we put them on again.
Speaker 8: We need to consist, isolate and have sanctions on those countries.
Speaker 8: And so obviously now Iran, you know, developing a nuclear
Speaker 8: weapon has crossed the line into this category where something
Speaker 8: had to be done. And I think, unlike what's happened
Speaker 8: in Europe with Russia and Ukraine, we are and our
Speaker 8: European allies who have not stepped up to play a
Speaker 8: leading role in dealing with what is primarily a regional
Speaker 8: crisis in the Middle East.
Speaker 6: We are very.
Speaker 8: Fortunate to have Israel, which is a relatively small country
Speaker 8: but you know, has developed a great deal of military
Speaker 8: strength with our help, but we also with their own initiatives,
Speaker 8: and they have the courage to use it and play
Speaker 8: the first line of defense over there. So those are
Speaker 8: my first thoughts about all of this, and we're just
Speaker 8: very fortunate to have a partner like Israel. And then
Speaker 8: I also, as you kind of alluded to, believe that.
Speaker 8: I think both NETS and Yahoo and Israel and Trump
Speaker 8: have just done a masterful job of coordinating their efforts
Speaker 8: and trying to pursue a peaceful resolution, giving that as
Speaker 8: much chance as it possibly could have. And then when
Speaker 8: you know, the Ayatola refused to go down that path,
Speaker 8: then Israel has stepped up.
Speaker 6: And done what needed to be done over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of think, you know, and we're playing
Speaker 1: armchair quarterback in Hindsight's twenty twenty and all of that,
Speaker 1: Todd But I can't help but think that Iran basically
Speaker 1: showed us who they were when the Islamis took over
Speaker 1: that country in nineteen seventy nine and took over our embassy,
Speaker 1: which is de facto US soil, and took that part.
Speaker 1: When they did that, they declared war on the United States.
Speaker 1: But we never declared. We never we never followed up
Speaker 1: with that. Really, you talk about sanctions and talking trade
Speaker 1: and you know, not being consistent with Iran, and we
Speaker 1: certainly have not been consistent with Iran over the years,
Speaker 1: through the through the Biden administration, through the Obama administration,
Speaker 1: we just weren't consistent and and they've never signed a
Speaker 1: deal that they haven't lied about and gone back on.
Speaker 1: So I mean, when you talk about consistency with keeping
Speaker 1: pressure on them, that's something United States through the different
Speaker 1: presidential administrations definitely haven't done.
Speaker 3: Have we.
Speaker 6: No, I completely agree with that.
Speaker 8: And you know, to me, the great lesson of history
Speaker 8: here is Reagan and the Soviet Union. And so, you know,
Speaker 8: we kind of went through this same pattern before Reagan,
Speaker 8: where you know, we would we would negotiate these arms
Speaker 8: treaties and there'd be this big hullabaloo and everybody adding
Speaker 8: each other on the back for having, you know, entered
Speaker 8: into these negotiations.
Speaker 6: This was for years leading up to the nineteen eighties, and.
Speaker 8: Then we would come back home and we would fill
Speaker 8: honor bound to adhere to the standards of those negotiations,
Speaker 8: and the Soviet Union would only do it if they
Speaker 8: thought it was in their best interest, and if they didn't,
Speaker 8: they just do whatever they wanted to it. And this
Speaker 8: happened through administration after administration, both Democrats and Republican all
Speaker 8: the way up through the Nixon administration, and finally Reagan
Speaker 8: came in and pointed these issues out and the absurdity
Speaker 8: of this kind of political approach to it with no consequences.
Speaker 8: And you know, because of the isolation of the Soviet
Speaker 8: economy and Reagan's understanding that, you know, one of our
Speaker 8: greatest resources from a geopolitical perspective was the dynamic nature
Speaker 8: of our capitalist economy. You know, if we could reinvigorate
Speaker 8: growth in our system and raised defense spending as a
Speaker 8: percentage of GDP, he knew that that Soviet economy couldn't
Speaker 8: keep up with us, and he was right about it.
Speaker 8: And it was just this incredible message about how powerful
Speaker 8: you know, trade and tariff type structures and sanctions.
Speaker 6: You know, can be.
Speaker 8: If you can take these inherently dysfunctional economies, which all
Speaker 8: authoritarian systems are, and isolate them instead of engaging with them,
Speaker 8: eventually they will collapse on their own inefficiencies and problems.
Speaker 8: And as you just said, you know, that's to me,
Speaker 8: that's the message that we should take away and we
Speaker 8: should be applying to these hostile regimes, the ones I
Speaker 8: just ticked off, including China today on a consistent basis,
Speaker 8: not on and on again, off again type of thing.
Speaker 1: Well, China's economy right now, from everything I'm hearing, is
Speaker 1: in a free fall. They're in trouble in China, They're
Speaker 1: in trouble in Iran. They're in trouble in Russia to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, are they not? Aren't all those three
Speaker 1: economies are flailing right now and are struggling for life.
Speaker 3: Does that elicit hope that a deal.
Speaker 1: Can be made that's lasting, that we can be staunch
Speaker 1: and resolute in our dealings with these people, that they
Speaker 1: will have to come back around to the table.
Speaker 3: And be serious.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I think I think the answer the
Speaker 8: first part of that is absolutely yes, and I think
Speaker 8: we should be now with China. We have to go
Speaker 8: a little bit more slowly because our economy is so
Speaker 8: intertwined with theirs, unfortunately at this point, because we failed
Speaker 8: to kind of recognize these issues and apply this approach
Speaker 8: to isolating them instead of engaging with them. So that
Speaker 8: has to happen a little bit more gradually, which is
Speaker 8: happening as a result of the negotiations that the Trump
Speaker 8: administration is going through right now. You know, we're looking
Speaker 8: at tariffs on China going from around three and a
Speaker 8: half percent before Trump came into office the first time
Speaker 8: to about twenty percent after his first administration, and now
Speaker 8: according to his recent post moving up.
Speaker 3: Into the fifty percent range.
Speaker 8: So those are significant increases, but there are also ones
Speaker 8: that are at levels that I think give American companies
Speaker 8: and workers an opportunity to adjust over time without things
Speaker 8: happening too drastically.
Speaker 6: And you're right about China.
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, with.
Speaker 8: Some notable exceptions, that they do a great job of
Speaker 8: spinning and you know, making it seem like they're in
Speaker 8: this great resurgent environment. Their economy is racked with excess
Speaker 8: levels of debt, which my understanding is hard to get
Speaker 8: good numbers are well above what ours are. They have
Speaker 8: high levels of unemployment. They have extraordinary excess capacity in
Speaker 8: the housing sector and in manufacturing, where they have pumped
Speaker 8: in lots of money to try and build up these
Speaker 8: things to keep putting people to work. But they've just
Speaker 8: built way too much capacity, and now they're trying to
Speaker 8: you know, the housing they can't dump on the rest
Speaker 8: of the world, but you know, in the manufacturing sector,
Speaker 8: they're trying to dump all this stuff on the rest
Speaker 8: of the world.
Speaker 3: So yes, I think.
Speaker 6: They're in a world of hurt.
Speaker 8: And I think that the Trump administration, in spite of
Speaker 8: all the criticism, they've had which make it sound like,
Speaker 8: you know, oh, chairman, she is winning these negotiations. I
Speaker 8: think Trump has got us exactly where we should be
Speaker 8: in terms of what the terms of the deal look
Speaker 8: like right now. So yeah, I think there's a lot
Speaker 8: of room for optimism there as.
Speaker 3: Far as Iran goes.
Speaker 1: With the introduction of drill, baby drill, and part of
Speaker 1: that Trump agenda of opening up our vast energy resources
Speaker 1: in this country, it puts people like Irana noticed too. Iran,
Speaker 1: I mean, their economy is just from what I hear
Speaker 1: in the tank, and I don't know how that regime
Speaker 1: is going to survive, especially to go back with Israel.
Speaker 6: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 8: And you know, you know, both Iran and Russia are
Speaker 8: incredibly oil and energy dependent in their economies. And one
Speaker 8: of the big mistakes we've made here is, you know,
Speaker 8: in prior administrations, in kind of the regulatory the environmental
Speaker 8: concerns have been focused on shutting down US production.
Speaker 6: The problem with that is, you know, this is the.
Speaker 8: Most environmentally sensitive energy development in the world right here in.
Speaker 6: The United States.
Speaker 8: And if we shut down our production, it doesn't mean
Speaker 8: that worldwide demand is being reduced.
Speaker 7: It's not.
Speaker 8: It's growing at relatively healthy rates and rates that are
Speaker 8: too fast for renewables to service. And so when we
Speaker 8: shut down, you know, environmentally sensitive and regulatorially sound development
Speaker 8: here in the US, we're just sending that opportunity to
Speaker 8: places like Russia and Iran who don't care about the
Speaker 8: environment at anywhere near the levels we do. And then
Speaker 8: they take the money and fund these kinds of aggressions
Speaker 8: like we're seeing in Russia against Ukraine and in Iran,
Speaker 8: you know, with the development of these nuclear weapons and
Speaker 8: all of the things that they're involved with, funding.
Speaker 3: Terrorism and that kind of thing.
Speaker 8: So we've made huge mistakes there, and again that's another
Speaker 8: area where the Trump administration I think is moving us
Speaker 8: in the right direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we cut off off the need for
Speaker 1: a rany and oil globally because we've got enough energy.
Speaker 1: I've understood this to be true for quite a while.
Speaker 1: We cut off that energy and we get into our resources,
Speaker 1: not only our liquid natural gas, but our oil that
Speaker 1: we have available under our own feet. As the President says,
Speaker 1: we can provide for the rest of the world, and
Speaker 1: we don't need Iran or we don't need Russia either one.
Speaker 1: And you cut off that, you cut off that resource
Speaker 1: to them. You cut off those dollars, and those petro
Speaker 1: states go literally dry, and they don't have the money
Speaker 1: to foster this kind of chaos and to.
Speaker 3: Fund these wars.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, it's like it's a win win win kind of thing.
Speaker 8: I mean, we put our people to work developing the
Speaker 8: energy sources instead of theirs. We do it with much
Speaker 8: more concern for the environment than they're going to have.
Speaker 8: And as you've just suggested, we also choke off their
Speaker 8: access to the source of funding, that is, you know,
Speaker 8: giving them the opportunity to gauge in engage in all
Speaker 8: these hostile activities like developing nuclear weapons and attacking you know, Ukraine.
Speaker 3: And that kind of thing.
Speaker 8: So it's it's definitely in the right where we're going
Speaker 8: in the right direction at this point in time, after
Speaker 8: going in the wrong direction for a.
Speaker 3: Very long time.
Speaker 1: Right, the ship's finally turned around. It's a big ship,
Speaker 1: so it takes a while to turn a big ship around.
Speaker 1: I always use the analogy, since its Father's Day Weekend,
Speaker 1: Todd of my dad being in the Navy in the
Speaker 1: late nineteen fifties on a ship in the Caribbean and
Speaker 1: him being on deck and not hearing the call that
Speaker 1: they're going to pull a hose that he's holding on to,
Speaker 1: and he got tossed into the drink and they shouted man,
Speaker 1: they shouted man overboard the second he was in the water,
Speaker 1: and it took a half an hour to turn around
Speaker 1: and get him back on board.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, in shark infested waters. So Happy Father's Day, Dad.
Speaker 3: I'm glad the sharks didn't need you. I'm glad the
Speaker 3: navy came to pick you up.
Speaker 1: But it takes a long time to turn a big
Speaker 1: ship around once you're you're going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 8: So yeah, but you know, if at least the ship
Speaker 8: gets turned and you get the person out of the water, then.
Speaker 6: Things can go in the right direction.
Speaker 8: And hopefully that's what's happening with us right now, right
Speaker 8: right exactly.
Speaker 1: Happy Happy Father's Day to you, Todd Sheets. I appreciate
Speaker 1: our time, and you can read Todd's two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight What really Happened? You can read his articles in
Speaker 1: sub stack, and hopefully we'll have a chance to chat
Speaker 1: again soon.
Speaker 3: Okay, Todd, I look forward.
Speaker 6: Happy Father's Day to you and to all your listeners.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: It's a a special Saturday nightcaps best special Saturday night
Speaker 1: Cap and it continues. Dave Hatter will join us with
Speaker 1: some tech talk here in the next half hour. And
Speaker 1: Joe Evermore the Mountain climb and daddy of four who's
Speaker 1: bringing his kids along with him for the climb on
Speaker 1: this father's state weekend on seven hundred WLW. Well, what
Speaker 1: a NodD place to find Dave Hatter and me on
Speaker 1: a Saturday night. This hardly ever happens, and it probably
Speaker 1: will never happen again, But I'm glad we're here together now,
Speaker 1: Gary Jeff on a special Saturday Night Cap on seven
Speaker 1: hundred WLW. And Yes, Dave Hatter Doomsday. Dave, the guy
Speaker 1: with the aluminum foil hat because we can't find ten anymore,
Speaker 1: is here to tell us what we need to be
Speaker 1: afraid of in the Internet of Things world in which
Speaker 1: we live, including the most amazing deep fake video I've
Speaker 1: ever seen that Dave just sent me, Dave, how you're
Speaker 1: doing this evening?
Speaker 7: I'm doing good, Garret, Jeff.
Speaker 5: I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 7: I'm happy that fates have conspired to bring us together
Speaker 7: on a Saturday night.
Speaker 3: Yes, the fates and the fakes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this video you sent me, you say everybody should see.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how we disseminate that to people
Speaker 1: here on the radio except to describe what they may
Speaker 1: get to see. It's entitled the deep Fake Scams You're
Speaker 1: Not Ready for made with Google VEO three. What exactly
Speaker 1: is VEEO three, Dave? As far as you know?
Speaker 7: Yeah, so gart Jeff, and I'll put a link to
Speaker 7: this out in my social media like on x and
Speaker 7: Facebook and LinkedIn so people to make it easy for me.
Speaker 7: I'm easy to find. I'll share the so people can
Speaker 7: see it for themselves. They really do need to see it.
Speaker 7: Bo three is a new generative AI platform from Google.
Speaker 7: It allows you to enter a prompt and create incredibly
Speaker 7: realistic looking video. Now I encourage people to watch this.
Speaker 7: It's two minutes. You know, it doesn't look absolutely perfect,
Speaker 7: but I think most people will be shocked at how
Speaker 7: good this video is. And I would argue for most people,
Speaker 7: if they don't know this as a thing and they
Speaker 7: just happen to catch this online, they would not question
Speaker 7: the vast majority of these clips and in this video
Speaker 7: and made by a new product from Google called vo three.
Speaker 7: It allows you to understand how good this technology is.
Speaker 7: The creator of this basically has two minutes worth of
Speaker 7: very short videos that all are pointing out how real
Speaker 7: this stuff looks, but yet it's not real because it's AI.
Speaker 7: So it'll be a woman saying, no, I'm not in
Speaker 7: love with you and I don't need a plane ticket,
Speaker 7: I'm AI, or if someone saying I got rich in cryptography,
Speaker 7: No I didn't because I'm AI. Things like that, and
Speaker 7: you see, it looks like newspeople, it looks like people
Speaker 7: trying to tell you something. It looks like regular everyday
Speaker 7: people kind of doing their thing. And then at the
Speaker 7: end of each one of these little clips, all strung
Speaker 7: together in this very handy two minute video, you can
Speaker 7: see that every bit of this is AI, and it
Speaker 7: shows you how realistic this technology already is. And the
Speaker 7: bigger point in my mind, Gary, Jeff, is it's already
Speaker 7: this good. Now, think how good it's going to be
Speaker 7: in another year or two, or what's in some lab
Speaker 7: somewhere that we haven't seen yet. Because this was just
Speaker 7: recently rolled out and it's caused a lot of interest
Speaker 7: simply because of the capabilities it brings to the table.
Speaker 3: Dave, I'm not a gamer, but I have seen.
Speaker 1: The humanoid characters in video games, and I marvel at those.
Speaker 1: This is about one hundred steps past what I've seen
Speaker 1: in video.
Speaker 3: Games to this point.
Speaker 7: They would agree.
Speaker 1: They look exactly like flesh and blood human beings, and
Speaker 1: they're all conjured up in a computer. They're not real
Speaker 1: and it's just man, it's mind blowing to watch this video.
Speaker 1: So your link on X or how do people find
Speaker 1: you on X Dave so they can see this?
Speaker 7: You can easily find me on LinkedIn if you see
Speaker 7: the search on Dave Hatter or X search on Dave
Speaker 7: Hatter or at Dave Hatter. I'm on Facebook, although I'm
Speaker 7: not a huge Facebook fan and I generally only use
Speaker 7: it to promote things like this, But the ex would
Speaker 7: be the easiest place because you know, you can just
Speaker 7: go on there search, I'll post this, and yeah, people
Speaker 7: really need to see it. They need to share it,
Speaker 7: not only with their kids who might not realize how
Speaker 7: far this is progressed, and how this could be used
Speaker 7: for things like sextortion scams. But I think even more importantly,
Speaker 7: you know elderly people, parents, grandparents, because my big concern
Speaker 7: about all this part Jeff I mean it runs the
Speaker 7: gamut of you know, propaganda by trying to disrupt elections
Speaker 7: with videos that look like some candidates says something. But
Speaker 7: my real concern at the moment is the scam power
Speaker 7: of this. You know, one of the clips in there is,
Speaker 7: you know, a young girl saying, no, Grandma, I don't
Speaker 7: need your money. I haven't been kidnapped. I'm AYI you
Speaker 7: know that sort of thing. These are well documented scams
Speaker 7: that are playing out right now. You can go to
Speaker 7: any law enforcement source and find folks like the FBI
Speaker 7: or local law enforcement warning about the grandparent scams. And
Speaker 7: I'm using voice cloning technology and this type of thing
Speaker 7: to create very realistic scams. And again, it's so important
Speaker 7: for people to see this, to realize that we are
Speaker 7: now in a place, thanks to this technology where you
Speaker 7: really can't believe your ears or eyes anymore, and you
Speaker 7: need to slow down, take a breath, and then vet
Speaker 7: anything that you're getting through some other source, or you
Speaker 7: are very all victim to this type of technology, which
Speaker 7: is only going to improve.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, it's one thing to have a pair
Speaker 1: of virtual reality glasses and live in a world that's
Speaker 1: not real. It's quite another to be sent to a
Speaker 1: video on your phone and it looks like your child
Speaker 1: has been kidnapped, is handcuffed in some kind of hotel
Speaker 1: room or some kind of barn somewhere, saying Mommy, Daddy,
Speaker 1: they're holding me, and it looks just like your kid.
Speaker 1: It sounds just like your kid. This is what you're
Speaker 1: warning about, Dave, And I think it is a good
Speaker 1: first word heads up for folks on what's out there
Speaker 1: and what's going to be available out there in the
Speaker 1: very very short term if it's not there. Now, did
Speaker 1: you ever did you ever invest in a pair of
Speaker 1: VR glasses? I certainly didn't because I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be that disoriented.
Speaker 7: I've used them, I have never actually bought any myself,
Speaker 7: because the idea of having that on my face is
Speaker 7: not it's not for me.
Speaker 3: No, No, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1: So this technology can be deadly and it can lead
Speaker 1: to some terrible outcomes. And you were describing the case
Speaker 1: of a team that committed suicide because of these sextortion
Speaker 1: scams that are out there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, sextortion continues to be a thing. It's not new,
Speaker 7: it's been around for a while, but you know, it's
Speaker 7: a good segue from the last topic, because now you
Speaker 7: have these very powerful generative ani tools that can generate
Speaker 7: photos and videos that look incredibly real. And you know,
Speaker 7: one of the points I wanted to make, like we
Speaker 7: talked a little bit about the grandparent scam, when people say, well,
Speaker 7: you know, I'm not a celebrity, how would you get
Speaker 7: my voice or how would you get my image? Well,
Speaker 7: are there any photos of you online anywhere on your
Speaker 7: company website? You know, does your granddaughter postpotos of herself
Speaker 7: on Instagram or Snapchat or something else? And my point
Speaker 7: being is, you know, sadly many of us are now
Speaker 7: exposed to this kind of threat because there are photos,
Speaker 7: there is video, there is audio of us out there.
Speaker 7: I tell people all the time when they say, well,
Speaker 7: how can I get voice clubes? I don't use social media,
Speaker 7: I'm not famous. Do you have a voice greeting on
Speaker 7: your voicemail? If I call your phone, is there a
Speaker 7: recording of you telling me hey, I'm not available or
Speaker 7: something like that, Well, I can use that to clone
Speaker 7: your voice. And this sextortion thing, unfortunately continues to show
Speaker 7: up in the news because it appears to be primarily
Speaker 7: targeted to teenage boys at this point, and every time
Speaker 7: I see one of these tragic, terrible stories as a parent,
Speaker 7: you know, I think it's just so tragic, it's so horrible,
Speaker 7: and I also think, thank God none of this existed
Speaker 7: when I was a teenager, Gary Jeff. But also as
Speaker 7: a parent who still has a one teenage son, you know,
Speaker 7: I worry about this sort of thing. Talk with him
Speaker 7: about it extensively. I share these kind of articles with
Speaker 7: him all the time, because you know, even if they
Speaker 7: can't talk you into some compromising photos that you have
Speaker 7: taken of yourself as a teenage boy, they can use
Speaker 7: this sort of technology like Google, VEO three or others
Speaker 7: out there to create false deep take images with the
Speaker 7: goal to extort you. And in this particular case, I'll
Speaker 7: just read real quick. Elijah Hancock was a vibrant team
Speaker 7: who made people smile. He wasn't depressed, he wasn't said,
Speaker 7: he wasn't angry. Father John Burnett told CBS Saturday Morning,
Speaker 7: but he received a threatening text with an AI generated
Speaker 7: nude photo himself, demanding he paid three thousand dollars to
Speaker 7: keep it from being sent to friends and family, and
Speaker 7: shortly thereafter he sadly and tragically killed himself. And this
Speaker 7: is not the first example of this. Again, sometimes kids
Speaker 7: don't seem to understand that the fourteen year old girl
Speaker 7: you think you're talking to online is a thirty seven
Speaker 7: year old dude living in his mom's space, right, So,
Speaker 7: I mean, sometimes this is a case of human beings
Speaker 7: luring children into these sorts of situations where they can
Speaker 7: then be extorted. But sadly, now, thanks to this AI
Speaker 7: technology we're talking about, you know, if I can just
Speaker 7: find one photo, I can feed it into one of
Speaker 7: these tools and I can use this to exploit people.
Speaker 7: So I think it's so important to warn your kids,
Speaker 7: and you know, also tell them like, hey, if this
Speaker 7: happens to you, the first thing you need to do
Speaker 7: is come to me. We need to get law enforcement involved,
Speaker 7: We need to get out in front of this. You know,
Speaker 7: you should not kill yourself. But I mean, I just
Speaker 7: can imagine the psychological damage the scum that are behind
Speaker 7: this are doing to these kids, even if they don't
Speaker 7: tragically kill themselves. I mean, it's so despicable and sick.
Speaker 7: It's really hard to even get your mind around.
Speaker 3: Well, Dave, you're a if you're a grown man and
Speaker 3: you're trying to find a fourteen year old girl online.
Speaker 3: You get what you deserve, a man.
Speaker 7: Before we run out of time, Gary, Yeah, I did
Speaker 7: just want to give out one statistic because I think
Speaker 7: people don't understand how prevalent this is. So Again, from
Speaker 7: the same article, reports of the scheme have skyrocketed sextortion.
Speaker 7: The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children said it
Speaker 7: received within five hundred thousand reports of sextortion scams targeting
Speaker 7: miners in just the last year. At least twenty people
Speaker 7: have taken their own lives because of sex dortion scams
Speaker 7: since twenty twenty one. The Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates
Speaker 7: five hundred thousand in one year of these despicable scum
Speaker 7: targeting kids that try to extort money out of them
Speaker 7: and basically ruin their young lives with this garbage. And
Speaker 7: that's why it's so important to keep reiterating this story
Speaker 7: and getting parents and grandparents and kids to understand that
Speaker 7: this is a thing.
Speaker 1: I saw one of the things that you sent me, Dave,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask you about it before we
Speaker 1: do run out of time.
Speaker 3: Tonight, we got a few more minutes this story.
Speaker 1: On reclaim the net about you being guilty by algorithm?
Speaker 3: Can you explain that real quick?
Speaker 7: I can. It's pretty disturbing. Facial recognition, not new, continues
Speaker 7: to be used in all kinds of interesting and I
Speaker 7: would argue disturbing ways unless you happen to be a
Speaker 7: fan of nineteen eighty four and the panopticon world we've
Speaker 7: created now where you're under constant surveillance, whether it's ring
Speaker 7: doorbell cameras or someone's cell phone or CCTV cameras would
Speaker 7: have popped up everywhere. But apparently reading from this article,
Speaker 7: a guy named Tiber Miles was accused of a twenty
Speaker 7: twenty one murder of a guy named Ahmad McPherson. And
Speaker 7: as it goes on to say, you know, the central
Speaker 7: piece of evidence, not finger prints, not an eyewitness, a
Speaker 7: facial recognition hit from a system so secretive the government
Speaker 7: will won't even tell the defense what it is, how
Speaker 7: it works, or whether it's more accurate than a drunk
Speaker 7: dark throw. So basically they had someone claim this guy
Speaker 7: did it, that the accused, and a guy that has
Speaker 7: been identified by this facial recognition. They cops apparently went
Speaker 7: out found some photos of this guy dumped it into
Speaker 7: this system, it said he did it, and they went
Speaker 7: out and arrested it. And while you know, there have
Speaker 7: been lots of problems and concerns about facial recognition for
Speaker 7: a long long time, and that's well documented. But the
Speaker 7: idea that you could be essentially accused by facial recognition
Speaker 7: and then they won't even show your defense team. You know,
Speaker 7: all software has problems scaring jet all software. Anyone that
Speaker 7: doesn't understand that obviously has never built it like I
Speaker 7: did for twenty five years. But the idea that you're
Speaker 7: going to be accused and potentially spend your life in
Speaker 7: prison for a murder and you can't challenge the algorithm.
Speaker 7: You know, does it have implicit bias? How do you
Speaker 7: know it works right? What's its false positive and what's
Speaker 7: its false negative rate? Yeah? I find this story extremely disturbing,
Speaker 7: and I'm glad you brought it up because people need
Speaker 7: to understand this kind of thing is going on. We
Speaker 7: need as a society to get out in front of it.
Speaker 7: I don't the genie is out of the bottle. I
Speaker 7: don't think we're going to put facial recognition back, but
Speaker 7: I think any government that's using it in a way
Speaker 7: that can accuse you of a crime. As a result,
Speaker 7: needs to be able to show, you know, what is
Speaker 7: the confidence rate or how competent can you be that
Speaker 7: it is actually producing correct results. And the fact that
Speaker 7: they won't even talk about it because it's some sort
Speaker 7: of you know, law enforcement secret or something to me
Speaker 7: is extremely scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, this is your right out of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, George, orwell, so you're guilty because of facial wreck,
Speaker 1: not not any other evidence.
Speaker 7: Well, there is someone who accused him of doing this, right,
Speaker 7: but yeah, you know, at this point there's an accusation
Speaker 7: that he's the guy, and then the facial recognition says, yep,
Speaker 7: he's the guy, and that currently understands. You know, we'll
Speaker 7: see how this works out in the court system. I
Speaker 7: think this is a story worth paying attention to. I'll
Speaker 7: post this link tonight too, so people can you get
Speaker 7: this information to see for themselves all three of these days,
Speaker 7: the Google BeO link, the sex doors and link and
Speaker 7: social media so people.
Speaker 1: Can go to just go to add Dave had her
Speaker 1: on x and they can see these posts day. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, Thank you very much for sharing
Speaker 1: him by the way, Happy Father's Day. Are There big
Speaker 1: plans tomorrow at the hat Her household for.
Speaker 7: Dad, And as far as I know, the kids are
Speaker 7: going to come over here and my Dad's going to
Speaker 7: come over and we're just going to kind of hang
Speaker 7: out hopefully have a nice day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it great to have dad still around? My
Speaker 1: dad is still hanging in there too, like a hair
Speaker 1: and a grilled cheese sandwich. He'll be eighty nine at
Speaker 1: the end of October, God willing, he's he's in the
Speaker 1: hospital right now in Middle Tennessee and hopefully he'll get
Speaker 1: out in the next couple of days. Some breathing issues.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm so lucky to have my dad
Speaker 1: and my mom.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll say a prayer for him. And now my
Speaker 7: dad's going to be ninety five in August, so yeah,
Speaker 7: very fortunate as well. Wow, if you're listening to my dad,
Speaker 7: love your happy Father's Day.
Speaker 3: That's great. Dave Hatter, thank you so much. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: My friend Dave Hatter joining us on this special Saturday night.
Speaker 1: There is more to come, Yes, there's more. Another hour.
Speaker 1: I've got to fill up and up next. Joe Evermore,
Speaker 1: who was the mountain climbing dad who takes his four sons, well,
Speaker 1: at least three of the sons. I think the fourth
Speaker 1: son is only about three or four months old, now
Speaker 1: up mountains some pretty high ranges and has a new
Speaker 1: movie coming out. And we'll talk about all of that
Speaker 1: after the news at eleven o'clock, Gary Jeff with you
Speaker 1: on a Saturday Night on seven hundred WLW into another
Speaker 1: hour of this Saturday night cap our special show on
Speaker 1: Father's Day Week on seven hundred WLW, and our next
Speaker 1: guest is a father. He's like an incredible father. I
Speaker 1: love this guy's story about I don't know, six eight
Speaker 1: months ago. Maybe I don't know if it's that long. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was about six eight months ago. I had my
Speaker 1: first chance to interview Joe evermore, and what sparked my
Speaker 1: imagination was the story of what he does for a
Speaker 1: living and what he does with his family.
Speaker 3: He and his wife.
Speaker 1: Anne have four really wild boys and they rage an age.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I'll get the rundown on Joe because
Speaker 1: I lose track of time here, and they're older than
Speaker 1: the last time we talked, and the fact that they're
Speaker 1: older is kind of a wonder when you see or
Speaker 1: hear what they do together as a family. They climb
Speaker 1: mountains like Big Mountain, like El Capitan and some others
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about tonight. But our primary focus tonight
Speaker 1: with Joe Evermore is what being a father and what
Speaker 1: parenting is all about, and what he's trying to instill
Speaker 1: in his kids. And I think it's the coolest story
Speaker 1: that I know these days. In twenty twenty five, Joe Evermore,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: How are you, my friend?
Speaker 4: Hey, excited to be here. It's gonna be fun, yeah.
Speaker 1: Exactly, not as fun as climbing a mountain, but you know,
Speaker 1: we do what we can, so first and foremost, I
Speaker 1: understand from when we were talking to set up this interview,
Speaker 1: you're getting your movie made. You got the money to
Speaker 1: do your movie, right?
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're making a really cool film about the three
Speaker 4: big mountains we're climbing this year. And it was scary
Speaker 4: at the beginning, but it's all been funded now, so
Speaker 4: now we can move forward.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. You guys have posted a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can find you on if you folks,
Speaker 1: if you type in Joe Evermore, And just like it sounds.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of pictures of he and his wife
Speaker 1: and their kids. And for people who never heard the
Speaker 1: interview before, dad, let's let's run down all of the
Speaker 1: children and their ages, their names, which are very cool,
Speaker 1: and some of their accomplishments to this point.
Speaker 4: The oldest is a Stamuel Adventure and he's eleven, all right,
Speaker 4: and he's as a firstborn, and he's kind of like
Speaker 4: kind of set the stage. And there's quite a few
Speaker 4: mountains that he's the youngest to climb. The most notable
Speaker 4: one was when he climbed out Cavitan at eight. But
Speaker 4: he's been really kind of setting new records, working on
Speaker 4: some big projects. And this summer will be our second
Speaker 4: attempt at the Matterhorn, and so we're we're looking at
Speaker 4: doing that, you know, right at the very end of
Speaker 4: the summer.
Speaker 1: Now, how big is the matter Horn? Just to put
Speaker 1: it in perspective for people who maybe not are in
Speaker 1: the climbing community, but are just in all of the
Speaker 1: kind of activities that you guys are doing. How what's
Speaker 1: the height of the matterhorn and what are the challenges
Speaker 1: of the matter Horn.
Speaker 5: I don't know the exact tid.
Speaker 4: It's a fourteen ers. I think it's almost fifteen thousand feet.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: But the matter Horn is a first of all, it's
Speaker 4: one of the most breathtaking mountains you'll ever see. It's
Speaker 4: probably the most famous mountain in the world. It's a
Speaker 4: put everywhere. Once you understand what it is, you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: I see that everyway. It's even in the Disney logo.
Speaker 4: But it's like it's got four ridges on it. It's like
Speaker 4: a big diamond. And those ridges are like nice blades,
Speaker 4: and they're like, you know, you like as a climber,
Speaker 4: you just want to get on one of them. But
Speaker 4: the thing is about the Matterhorn is that in the morning,
Speaker 4: like at like ten o'clock in the morning, in most days,
Speaker 4: you can't even fly a kite at the top. Where
Speaker 4: is it like four o'clock, it could be white out
Speaker 4: with hunter mile in our winds. And if you go
Speaker 4: off route on this route you will likely die. And
Speaker 4: so it's like it's a very you know, precarious mountain
Speaker 4: if you get off route. And and so it's a
Speaker 4: it's a big deal to climb the matter Horn.
Speaker 7: It's not.
Speaker 4: It's nothing to definitely be respected.
Speaker 1: Now have you climbed it yourself. I know you said
Speaker 1: that you're gonna get Sam with you to try and
Speaker 1: attempt it. Have you done it yourself, Joe.
Speaker 4: Well, this will be our second attempt. Last year we
Speaker 4: tried it and we got within twelve hundred feet of
Speaker 4: the summit and we hit a cutoff time. We got
Speaker 4: we got to the soul the hut about a few
Speaker 4: minutes late, and so we decided to not go for
Speaker 4: the summit. We did go a little bit higher on
Speaker 4: the mountain, but because of that missing that cutoff time,
Speaker 4: we turned back.
Speaker 3: All right. The next the next in line Sun is
Speaker 3: what eight or nine?
Speaker 7: Yep?
Speaker 4: Then we got an eight year old and what's what's
Speaker 4: his name when we take his name is Sylvan light Year.
Speaker 4: The god was kind of leading us to say that
Speaker 4: this kid is going to be on a really big scale,
Speaker 4: and a light year is six trillion miles, so he
Speaker 4: definitely lives up to that. He's eight, he's going to
Speaker 4: be climbing El Capitan this year. He's getting already and
Speaker 4: geared up for that. And each of our boys are
Speaker 4: going to climb El Capitan at eight. My plan.
Speaker 1: So Sam and Sylvan have climbed mountains together, right, Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then this summer or when or when we
Speaker 4: do El Capitan, what we're gonna do is we're gonna
Speaker 4: have Sam on the rigging crew. So he's going to
Speaker 4: be leading pitches and hauling and he's got a lot
Speaker 4: of responsibility and some new misery to face on this
Speaker 4: mountain that he's never done before. And Sylvan's gonna be
Speaker 4: spent in six days, you know, like living on the
Speaker 4: side of the o a rock. Uh, it's an intense thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean did they did they take to it away?
Speaker 1: I mean, you figure the apple doesn't fall far in
Speaker 1: all of that, like father like son, But were they
Speaker 1: just like like for example, when I was maybe three
Speaker 1: months old, my parents just they were with me, but
Speaker 1: they took me into a pool and you know, and
Speaker 1: I was swimming, you know, at before I could before
Speaker 1: I could walk.
Speaker 3: But did they take to it like right away?
Speaker 4: It is a little bit like that in our home.
Speaker 4: It's kind of a prerequisite. You you crawl, you walk,
Speaker 4: and then you rock climb, and so it's kind of
Speaker 4: like your family, so it's climbing is a normal thing.
Speaker 4: It's like it's actually a lot of people unlearn it
Speaker 4: and it's it's something we naturally develop as kids, and
Speaker 4: it's it's very fun, and you know, it's a great
Speaker 4: aerobic activity, and it's you know, it exercises so many
Speaker 4: parts of your kind of inner self that you know,
Speaker 4: it's a it's like perfect for kids.
Speaker 3: And yeah, they all take to it. I think I
Speaker 3: think most kids would take to it. Now you're third boy,
Speaker 3: what's what's his name?
Speaker 4: That's the one to look out for. That's Joey Danger.
Speaker 4: And Joey's only we started five and he's six now,
Speaker 4: and so he's only done one huge mountain. He's got
Speaker 4: another huge one this year. But what I'll tell you
Speaker 4: a story about Joey. The other day, I was down
Speaker 4: and we have a little pond on the edge of
Speaker 4: our property and we like to have like little campfires
Speaker 4: out there, and so I told Joey to go up
Speaker 4: and get some matches that are lighter, and he couldn't
Speaker 4: find one.
Speaker 3: So what does he do.
Speaker 4: He finds an Amazon box and lights it on the
Speaker 4: stove and then runs through the house with this flaming
Speaker 4: torch and then all the way and by the time
Speaker 4: it gets down to the fire pits, man, this thing
Speaker 4: is a blaze and Uh, yeah, that's he's a very
Speaker 4: creative little guy.
Speaker 7: But you look up.
Speaker 3: He didn't burn himself, did he.
Speaker 4: No, he didn't burn himself, but it was it was
Speaker 4: quite uh yelling, look out, I got the fire coming
Speaker 4: down the hill.
Speaker 3: Just being in that house for one day, I might
Speaker 3: go nuts. Joe, that's great.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's like having a few like bobcats in
Speaker 4: the house.
Speaker 1: And and your youngest boy is just what months old,
Speaker 1: blaze months old?
Speaker 4: Wild he is. I think we're coming up once seven months.
Speaker 4: And so he's just a cuddly little guy, just barely
Speaker 4: rolling over and U two and when we in tickling,
Speaker 4: you know, so we're just cuddling him a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he's not mountain climbing.
Speaker 3: We wait till they're five. So your wife and your
Speaker 3: wife and you met climbing. Is that how you met?
Speaker 7: Yep?
Speaker 4: Well we we kind of saw in love climbing and
Speaker 4: we I invited her on this trip to Wyoming and
Speaker 4: there was a mountain called Wolfshead that we spent the
Speaker 4: night under the summit block just because I was moving
Speaker 4: too slow as a party and got cold and I
Speaker 4: couldn't figure out the route, and so we just kind
Speaker 4: of hunkered down, and it was then I was like, Wow,
Speaker 4: this girl's pretty awesome. I can I think she could
Speaker 4: keep up with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've been together for what I guess twelve
Speaker 1: thirteen years or.
Speaker 4: I think it's fourteen years.
Speaker 3: Congratulation.
Speaker 4: We just had our anniversary a couple of days ago,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I've got a great wife and she's on
Speaker 4: board with this. And what she understands is that men
Speaker 4: need their dad and that there's a point in the
Speaker 4: journey where a man leaves the mother and then goes
Speaker 4: into the world of men and learns from men and
Speaker 4: grows an apprenticeship with men. And honestly, it's a hard
Speaker 4: thing for a lot of women. Very few women do
Speaker 4: it well. But my wife has done. It's been so
Speaker 4: great eight and in giving me the handoff, and she's
Speaker 4: the kind of woman who's like, you know, she breastfeeds
Speaker 4: basically until the baby weans himself, and so she's really
Speaker 4: she almost like an attachment mom. So she's very attached
Speaker 4: to these little boys. And then you know, there's a
Speaker 4: point where they leave the world of mom and now
Speaker 4: they're interested in dad. And that's a big part of
Speaker 4: our journey that you know, they've each gone through.
Speaker 1: It's an excellent way to explain it. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: there are separate roles. This is this is something that
Speaker 1: some parts of our society just doesn't get, Joe, and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into all the political ins
Speaker 1: and outs of this, but there is a role for
Speaker 1: men in society, in human nature, there's a role for women,
Speaker 1: and I think you guys have those very well defined
Speaker 1: from how you're describing this, and I just think it's
Speaker 1: so beautiful and it's so natural that you both both
Speaker 1: have this understand well, it's.
Speaker 4: Important that we all understand that men and women are
Speaker 4: different right now, that they're not just two androgynous beings,
Speaker 4: but like they're we're very different and we bring different
Speaker 4: things to the table. We bring different things to our
Speaker 4: marriage and to our family that these boys need and
Speaker 4: you don't, like, you know, with the statistics are so clear,
Speaker 4: a home without a father, your likelihood of going to
Speaker 4: jail is like astronomically higher. You know, eighty percent of
Speaker 4: the inmates in jail where grew up in father less
Speaker 4: owns and the other twenty percent usually are claiming some
Speaker 4: kind of an abusive father in the home. And there's
Speaker 4: you know, so many statistics about like, you know, girls
Speaker 4: and the promiscuity. Like number one, you know, connection to
Speaker 4: a girl being sexually active early is her relationship with
Speaker 4: her father, you know, or how absent he was. And
Speaker 4: there's clear indication that a father is necessary in a home.
Speaker 4: And and really what happens is when you have a
Speaker 4: father in the home, it's a loving father. You then
Speaker 4: don't have a toxic mother, which is another big contributor
Speaker 4: to what you know, blows apart these kids and leaves
Speaker 4: them all confused about their life and there, you know,
Speaker 4: and their identity and all of that. You know, it's
Speaker 4: these kids need a mother and.
Speaker 3: A father, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm so blessed to have had both a mother
Speaker 1: and father in the home the whole time. My mom
Speaker 1: and dad are still together, Joe evermore after six after
Speaker 1: sixty seven years, Wow, my.
Speaker 3: Dad will be eighty nine.
Speaker 1: I've been telling folks he's he's actually in the hospital
Speaker 1: for Father's Day and it's a damn shame that I
Speaker 1: can't be with him because he's down in Middle Tennessee
Speaker 1: where they live, in a hospital.
Speaker 3: He'll be out in the next couple of days. So
Speaker 3: we're planning a trip.
Speaker 1: But Dad's so important, and what what do you want
Speaker 1: to teach your boys as a father? What what are
Speaker 1: the what are the main tenets of what you're trying
Speaker 1: to get across to them in the way you live
Speaker 1: and the way you play and the way you work.
Speaker 1: What's most important for Joe evermore to impart to his
Speaker 1: four sons.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so in masculine formation, it's really character formation. But
Speaker 4: you can't just teach a kid about things like you
Speaker 4: can't just say, like I'm going to read your book
Speaker 4: about courage or I'm going to read your book about like,
Speaker 4: you know, humility. You actually have to like help them
Speaker 4: discover these things. And a good father is always architecting
Speaker 4: an environment for that kind of discovery. And that's what
Speaker 4: I'm after in the climbing is that, like it's I want,
Speaker 4: you know, very early on, I want my kids to
Speaker 4: develop what we were in our house. We just call
Speaker 4: it self regulation. You know, that's like that control over
Speaker 4: your emotions. And it's like the first it's like kind
Speaker 4: of level one like of growing. And then once you
Speaker 4: get that, then really once they self regulate, then you
Speaker 4: can still to build real self confidence where they have
Speaker 4: that inner strength where someone if someone's teasing them, they
Speaker 4: just know who they are and it doesn't it like
Speaker 4: it's like they have armor against it. Because they have
Speaker 4: that self confidence, they begin to find they know that
Speaker 4: they have a strength that's unique to.
Speaker 3: The world, you know.
Speaker 4: And then out of that you begin to see things
Speaker 4: like courage come out, you know, and these other self disciplines.
Speaker 4: And it's you know, each of those and many others,
Speaker 4: is the role of a father to architect a world
Speaker 4: where the boys can really learn and grow and mature
Speaker 4: into you know, giants.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: I want these boys to be little like uh, you know,
Speaker 4: warrior poets that know who they are and can go
Speaker 4: out into the world world and face a problem and
Speaker 4: you know, they say, I don't I don't really know
Speaker 4: how how I'm gonna do this problem. But there was
Speaker 4: a time when I stood up and looked at up
Speaker 4: at El Capitan and it looked about a million miles high,
Speaker 4: and we did it together, you know. And so it's
Speaker 4: out of those experiences that a strong, confident, you know,
Speaker 4: boy is built.
Speaker 3: Uh Man.
Speaker 1: I could listen to you talk about this all night
Speaker 1: when we just have a couple of minutes left. Joe Evermore,
Speaker 1: Do you have a working title for the movie?
Speaker 4: Well, we're talking about against the Sky. It's kind of
Speaker 4: like when you're working on a muscle, you put your
Speaker 4: muscle against a weight. You know, we've we're kind of
Speaker 4: like developing these boys. The weight is against gravity, it's
Speaker 4: against the sky. It's and uh, it's it's gonna come
Speaker 4: out next year, hopefully on the Angel platform, is what
Speaker 4: we're shooting for. And you know we're going to get
Speaker 4: it on some of the streaming platforms.
Speaker 1: All right, Uh, you'll have to let me know when
Speaker 1: it's coming out so I can have you back on
Speaker 1: and we can publicize it. Because I think it's something
Speaker 1: that not only anybody who's into climbing, but anybody who
Speaker 1: is into parenting and family and adventure an adventure should see.
Speaker 1: And I can't wait to see it myself, Joe Evermore.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, yes, they should follow my son on
Speaker 4: social media. Just look up Samuel Adventure on Instagram and
Speaker 4: give us a follow their.
Speaker 1: All right, fantastic, certainly will Joe Evermore, It's not my bag,
Speaker 1: but man, you make me want to be into climbing.
Speaker 7: Is it okay?
Speaker 4: And there you want to come to Colorado. We'll take you.
Speaker 1: Is it too late at the age of sixty four?
Speaker 1: I know you start him young.
Speaker 4: Let's go. You're gonna You're gonna be fine. You got
Speaker 4: tons of path ahead. Yeah, we'll put you on an
Speaker 4: easy one, all right.
Speaker 3: Joe, Thanks, Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day.
Speaker 1: Joe Evermore and his amazing climbing mountain climbing family.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: If you could bottle what he said and give it
Speaker 1: to every prospective father, they'd have a really, really neat
Speaker 1: path to success with their sons, I believe. Up next,
Speaker 1: we will rerun this morning's rock and Roll Archaeology, paying
Speaker 1: tribute to both sly Stone and Brian Wilson of the
Speaker 1: Beach Boys, Me and the music professor Jim LaBarbara. If
Speaker 1: you missed it this morning, hear it next on this
Speaker 1: special Saturday night cap on seven hundred WLW