Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified fantabulous mister
Grant Hughes. We are gathered around the campfire today together
to do an off season look ahead, which I don't
know the last off season looking like Grant knives on
together because we were covering the actual basketball element of basketball.
Who knew we're gonna be talking about one of the
teams that we've talked about just a little bit over
the past few weeks, maybe once or twice. The San
Antonio Spurs made it all the way to the NBA Finals.
I'm lost in five to the Knicks. I would say
their off season is like, it's interesting, but it's gonna
be I think what's interesting is, well, how much urgency
are they gonna operate with? Is what everybody wants to know.
But the first actual question we have today, Grant, how
the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I'm always operating with maximum urgency, So I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm ready sound like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I. As we discussed before we started recording,
I'm feeling personally, it's a personal affront. Whenever I have
a cold in the summer, so I'm I'm a little
I'm on edge a little bit. I feel insulted. I
feel aggrieved that this because this shouldn't happen, but I'm
going to power through now.
Speaker 1: Is it more about because I feel the same way.
Do you think it's more about the summers just associated
with that's when you should be the most able, bodied
and active or is it the dissonance of well, I
feel sick and I have this cold when it's warm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's the second one. It's called a cold,
and so therefore it has zero association with the summer
and should not exist during it. I just like that's
I'm not a doctor, but I feel like that's pretty
sound metal.
Speaker 1: So that's news to me. No, no, MD, I've been
telling everyone that you're esquire MD.
Speaker 2: Damn all those before we.
Speaker 1: Dive into all the questions and topics that we have.
Did you want to take us through the San Antonio
Spurs' off season vitals, sir?
Speaker 2: It would be my pleasure. They are about thirty four
point three million dollars below attacks. That's forty one point
six million below the first apron. That's with fourteen players
projected to be on the roster. Including Julian champannee back
on that team option their number twenty pick in the draft,
which may or may not be upcoming by the time
you hear this. That would also include four minimum salaries.
Does not That figure above or those two figures above,
does not include any cap holds for Kelly Olinic, Harrison Barnes,
Jordan McLaughlin, or anybody else that may be coming off
the books or in free agency. They should have the
full mid level exception starting at fifteen point one million
per year. Notable free agents some of those names will
come up with respect to the cap holds. Harrison, Barnes,
Bismack Biambo, Jordan McLaughlin, Kelly Olinic, Lindy Waters a third
and Mason Plumley are all unrestricted free agents. They have
full bird on Harrison, Barnes, a link and I think
that's it, early bird on Biombo, McLaughlin, and non bird
on Plumbley and Waters. Harrison Ingram's a restricted free agent,
as is David Jones Garcia. Again that team option for
three million bucks on Julian Penny. We we'll get into
a little bit uh what soon with with respect to
like his extension options. How the Spurs might handle that,
whether they whether they decline it and have a new deal,
whether they just add a bunch of money and then
extend off of that. A few ways to go Among
other extension candidates, Victor Wamayama, he's going to get that
rookie max extension. Uh, that could be Actually I don't
I think it will be right because he's got if
he can get a full five year max up to
three hundred and three million dollars, that's with an All
NBA not I don't. I can never remember if like
Defensive Player of the Year counts towards that.
Speaker 1: I think it counts, but it needs to be in
like the preceding year, which is stupid. So he would
need to like make All NBA again next year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, decent, decent chance, Well, not a given. I mean
bet you.
Speaker 1: Jellen Williams thought the same thing.
Speaker 2: I bet he did. We mentioned Champagne. He can get
a four year up to a four year deal worth
ninety five million. Devin Vessel, Kelton Johnson also extension eligible.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Their their pick situation. They twenty twenty seven is kind
of funny. They owe their they have twenty twenty six.
Obviously they owe their twenty twenty seven first with top
fit sixteen protection to the Thunder or the Kings. The
protection there seventeen to thirty, but they're getting the Hawks unprotected.
Twenty twenty seven first is that the de Jonte Murray trade.
The gift that just continues to give. That may be
the end of the giving of that gift.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the last pick that'll convey from
that to Jone Murray trade.
Speaker 2: They also in twenty twenty eight have swap rights with
the Celtics top one protection. There, they have swap rights
with Minnesota or Dallas that's the most favorable. Another top
one protection that's twenty thirty twenty thirty one swap rights
with the Kings looking pretty as always, looking pretty lucrative.
Speaker 1: We'll see.
Speaker 2: Although you know the Kings have won out on that
one because they sent Deren Fox, who by many accounts
lost the Spurs the finals. So I guess the Kings
are ahead on a trade. I don't alive that five
highest paid players, speaking of which, in twenty six twenty seven,
Dearon Fox forty nine and a half million, Devin Masel
twenty seven and a half, Kelton Johnson eighteen, Wemby sixteen
point nine Dylan Harper thirteen million dollars. Uh, where should
we start here with the with the San Antonio Spurs offseason,
Dan they the core is intact for the most part,
do we start with?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, that's the is that the what is the
question with that? Is it? Does he get a player
option on the five year escalater or not? That's my
only question of like, that's the only negotiating point.
Speaker 2: That's not a question like that. Well, it's the question actually,
you know, the only question is what what do you want?
Speaker 1: What? How?
Speaker 2: How how may we be of service to you? Like
what what structure?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Like what? There's no, there's not a single aspect of
this that san Antonio should uh withhold should like bargain
hard over right, Like if not for this dude, for whom.
Speaker 1: He would just if he wants a three year deal
for some reason, you just have to act done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, done, whatever you want that that's yeah, I mean
you're are you're right at least to raise the player
option thing because that has not been a given in
some recent examples. But again, you know, this is just
a player that you don't mess around with at all.
Speaker 1: It's I do wonder if as a as a show
of just fierce competitive loyalty that he'll take the thirty
percent max language no player option. Would I think that's
how it will go. Yeah, And I just we've seen
so many big names like Anthony Edwards being one Tyre's
max even after waiting until restricted free agency not getting
a player option. But it's also Wemby, So I don't like,
you just do whatever his and it won't even be him,
it'll be his camp too, and so his camp has
no reason to offer any sort of compromise.
Speaker 2: Here's a thought, or here's a question. Oh boy, you
said it's Wemby and and and to me, the part
of the myth that's being built around him already is that,
like this guy's wired a little differently, Like he's got
real perspective. He's you know, all the Shallon Monk training
stories that all this.
Speaker 1: He's working around barefoot in Madisburg Garden.
Speaker 2: Doing all the things, like he's very enlightened. Is there
any chance he does something crazy like takes some wildly
below market rookie scale deal because he sees, look, the
team that just beat us had Jalen Brunson on a
below market deal and all I care about is winning.
Like is is there is there any like real traction
to some of the myth making that's happening around his
personality and the possibility of of him doing the unthinkable
of just not saying full max, no discussion one.
Speaker 1: I hope not, because that would just set a dangerous
precedent for the rest of the players. I also think
that it's a little different when you're looking at his
competitive edge, just like who is bred, Like it'd be
like me bragging to you if my mortgage is more
expensive than your, like I have less money than you?
Is what the brag would be? That's not I don't
know what was gonna take one less than Jailen brunts
to prove a.
Speaker 2: Point or something that would be great?
Speaker 1: Oh what a move that would be weby besides for
four years one hundred and fifty six point four million dollars.
Speaker 2: Yes, what if there's like a whole lot of trees
that need to be planted along the riverwalk and he
agrees to plant many, many trees And.
Speaker 1: You would have to imagine if he did accepted anything
less than like a flat max that the players Union
would be curious right right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that's ultimately it, because then you're what you
said initially two ties to that of just like the precedent,
this would set every team would be just driving much
harder bargains because they could point to Wemby and say,
you think you're better than this guy.
Speaker 1: This guy, right you know, maybe one of like the
ten greatest players of all time if he stays healthy,
So why would we pay you more than him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just alls I'm saying, is it's an opportunity
for him to prove all the shallon training uh is real?
You know that he really is Your Your question, whether
it was facetious or serious, does lead into the Julian
Champenny talk because why would Wenby take less is because
the Spurs are trying to juggle their books as when
he gets more expensive, the Fox deals now kicking in.
They got to start worrying about Castle is going to
be extension eligible next summer, Dylan Harper the summer after that.
That's why the Julian Champenney situation is fascinating. I think
on the surface, you look at a three million dollar
team option and say, yeah, well, yeah, that's less than
two percent of the salary cap, why would we? And
he's a quintessential three and D plus more wing basically. However,
if you want to keep him around long term, I
think it might make sense to decline a team option,
give him a huge raise next, bump him up to
twenty million, and then will he scaled down from there
as your roster is getting more expensive?
Speaker 1: Would be the hope. I think that's the move for them.
My one counter would be if you don't think that
he is a if you eventually view him as your
seventh man. If the idea is we don't want close
with Julian Champennie, we want someone else in his spot,
I wonder if that would give them cause to hesitate
or rethink that approach.
Speaker 2: That is the question, and it's one that we will
sort of touch on indirectly when we go through like
potential targets for them, because there's certainly a case to
be made not to jump too far ahead that you
don't even really do anything with this team, Like any
need you're gonna make up could be addressed mostly in
house by just player development or whatever, or reshuffling the
rotation rules. I wonder and you're kind of saying the
same thing. I wonder if, like, actually Champagne should be
I don't know if I agree with this, but the
is there a case that he should be Like in
the Aaron Wiggins or Isaiah Joe Roll on the Thunder
where it's like, we got this guy, we don't need him,
but man, he's helpful if you know, in a pinch
or if we have injuries where we can just throw
this clear rotation caliber guy out there into a into
our like he's fifth on the depth or whatever, like
which is where he is now? Just forget the contract
and all that other stuff. Just as like in terms
of player quality, what do you think Champagne should be
on this team? Like? Is he in the correct role now?
And the fix for fix like what it'll take for
the Spurs to get over the hump? Is everybody else
kind of improving a little bit or maybe even him.
It's like the champagnees are sneaky young. I think he's
not quite twenty Yeah, it's just under twenty five. So
it's like you have to say both because I've you know,
I've made some slip ups about twins and how unique
they are in the past, so I like to just
discuss them as a package deal. I don't know who's older.
Actually one of them has to be by a few seconds.
But is he in the right role or is this
a case where the Spurs need to go get someone
better than him and that would mean not extending him
at a market rate because he should be a seventh
or sixth or seventh or eighth guy.
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I honestly think you could get
away with him in his current role. But I also
believe that the idea of this Spurs team, if you're
gonna play, I think eventually, is their final form playing
Castle Fox and Dylan Harper together a bunch that you
probably want to get bigger and more physical at the
champagne spot because he's what he's six', six so he
plays his role really well and can do it like
even a lot of low man stuff or be around the.
Class he's got some pop around the rim and we've
seen him get hot from three on a number of.
Occasions BUT i think you want probably a higher end.
Defender maybe someone will even slide up to the five
When wemby, sits especially during the playoff. Time SO i
think that he the. Id the ideal vision of The
spurs is either It's, Dylan harper And castle and then
you have a wing In champagne like two more Plus,
wemby or if you're planning on Keeping fox plus those
other two, Guards champagne. In, again the best version of
The spurs is probably coming off the, bench especially and
if you Want vicelle as part of, this if it's
the you, know then it's definitely okay you. WANT i
think someone better Than champagne in that.
Speaker 2: SPOT i to, me it's it's KINDA i would say
first THAT i think This spurs team as it is
could have won the, title and SO i Think i'm
blown in five games that wasn't close at, all uh
with with like the expected improvements to their very young core.
Pieces to, me it's like it's more a question of
how greedy do you want to? Get AND i do
think it makes some sense to be pretty greedy if
you're The, spurs and and to view that as a
position that you could improve on more easily Than harper
Or castle Or wemby's spots or Even vacill Because vissell
really revealed himself to be a much better defender THAN
i gave him credit for THAN i think most people
gave him credit for Even vassel though you're, LIKE i
wish he Was LIKE i wish he was really just
like a touch more viable as like a, four which
is just he's not like he's more two than four
if we're talking like which position does he actually slot?
Into so, YEAH i don't know If sham he's gonna
be fascinating player like HE i think they'll keep. Him
what do you think is more, like what's a fair
contract for? Him if they do add some years and dollars?
Speaker 1: Here SO i always start with the baseline of the
non tax mid level of fifteen million pre OR i
think he's worth more than. That what About, YOUAH i would, think,
yeah and if you could start him at twenty five
and like then scale down from, there BECAUSE i don't
know how much if you go from three million dollars
to twenty five million, dollars so that's adding twenty two
million on. There i'm assuming he will give you some
concessions on the back end when you're looking at the
maximum drops maybe that you could make from. There, Right he's.
Speaker 2: Also that's the that's the power of the team, option,
right is they can say you, can we can you
can make three million dollars this year with no certainty
about what's, ahead or we can just pile the money
on right, now and so, like what's that worth to?
Speaker 1: You so twofold question before we move, on what do
you think? Happens would your prediction be they decline a
team options on him to a new, Deal but in
the event they, don't what do you think that says
about their plans or their intent moving?
Speaker 2: Forward, well wouldn't that suggests that they have some other
ideas that are a little, bigger that they want this.
Speaker 1: Little that you.
Speaker 2: LIKE i think that's what that would. MEAN i don't
know what form that. TAKES i would, MAN i think they'll.
PROBABLY i think he will not make three million dollars next.
YEAR i THINK i think he's getting, paid And i'm
fine with. IT i, like worst, case you give him
the twenty ish a year and everybody wants a player
that does what he does or pretty you, know most everybody's,
LIKE i would pay that guy that much if you're
talking about trade value if you have to, move and
then that's the other, THING a mid tier salary for
a plug and play guy that a lot of teams would.
Covet it's not the worst thing to, have even if
you don't have him in your own long term. Plans what's, Up.
Speaker 1: Feulaseko do you want all of our episodes add then
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Speaker 2: FACT i just know that you've promised to do a
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to Everything dan mentioned and all the other perks you're
gonna want to sign up for.
Speaker 1: That and now back to the. Show so There's, wenby
There's champpenny that we've already talked. About do any of
the other extension candidates stand out to, you whether It's Devin,
Vessel Keldon, johnson like those are REALLY i think the only,
ones The vasell being the two year. ONE i don't
know if he's what is he worth two? Years and
at forty million dollars a, Pop i'm probably steering unless
he wants to take less than. That that seems a little.
Rich The johnson's interesting because you mentioned them having the
mid end salary to. Trade he then can't be traded
for six months if you extend. HIM i Think i'm
more focused on if you're looking to roll over a salary,
slot do you just pay A Harrison barnes or is
it you're signing someone to the non tax mle and
then hoping to perhaps flip them once they're trade. Eligible,
YEAH i like.
Speaker 2: The barnes idea a little.
Speaker 1: Better.
Speaker 2: Vassell i'm not extending because you've got him on the
books for through twenty eight twenty nine at a very good.
Rate he'll make twenty seven million that. Year it's actually
his salary. Fluctuates he'll be twenty seven this upcoming, year
than twenty four and a half the, following and then
back up to twenty. Seven johnson is someone THAT i don't. Know,
YEAH i. DON'T i don't want to commit market rate
money to, him having just seen, that like he's not
actually a full like he was not very useful as
a postseason. Player SO i THINK i think that's where
that's where by THREE d also comes, in it's, like,
okay he's he's very valuable to us during the regular,
season like HE i think deservedly won Six man of
The year or at least was. In you don't get to.
It you'd never look at him winning that and be
like that's, absurd, Right like he at least is in the,
Conversation so that's hugely. Valuable but for what The spurs
should care, ABOUT i do think there's seventeen and a
half million better spent on somebody else than him going
because he's twenty. Nine, oh he's only twenty. Seven BUT
i don't see like his the form on his three,
Ball LIKE i don't see him becoming just like a dead,
eye high volume. Guy and that would be the way
where he'd, say, absolutely we'll we'll continue, This we'll add years.
Speaker 1: Adder can he is there more directionality to his drives
or can he just get off the? Ball quicker would
be he just he.
Speaker 2: Is he's been kind of this guy for most of his,
career where like he's just driving into somebody and that
works great against regular season, defenses not so much. Later
one of my first thoughts, was would you just sign
what if he was willing to take basically the same,
salary and so we still immediately trade. Eligible would that
be Intriguing and, WELL i think there might be some
value to. THAT i do wonder depending on what you
have in mind for a, trade the other team.
Speaker 1: Might value him because he's on the expiring, contract and
so if you remove, that of, course what you could,
do though is Extend Caldon johnson and just Sign Harrison
barnes as the salary filler for. That BUT i think
you just have to keep your optionality open and you will.
Have he's been in with the organization since he entered the,
league has roots In San, antonio doesn't have like a
huge farm or something In. Texas so you let this
play out to free, agency or you can extend him
next summer before he even hits free.
Speaker 2: Agency, YEAH i, guess long story, SHORT i don't feel
much urgency to get something done with Either johnson Or
assel this. Offseason what are their biggest?
Speaker 1: Needs you're looking at this roster right, Now you're going
to what do we need to improve? Upon and we
mentioned in our takeaways for The, finals they were a
team where it was they were regular season, deep but
they weren't one hundred game playoff, deep so that's definitely
something they need to focus.
Speaker 2: On, Yeah AND i would say the only guy THAT
i think you could you could look at and, say,
well he could develop into being both from regular season
deep to postseason deep Is Carter, Bryant and that's just
a bet on, youth a bet on how hard that
guy plays on some of the threes he took looking
pretty good and like he was pretty willing to take.
Them so he's the only one Where i'd, say, like you,
know if you're going to counsel, patients you'd, say, well
because this guy might be both the big forward we
want and the guy that can slide over and be
a better backup center than we've had in the. Past
LIKE i could see it's. Possible it'd be a weird lineup,
construction but we've seen stranger SO i kind of already
gave away the two THINGS i think are most. Important
i'd be curious how you would rank. Them which is
a playoff a more playoff proof backup, five BECAUSE i
do Think wemby got tired AND i don't think you
can play him forty plus minutes a night for a
full postseason or even a full. Series it turns. Out
and then just the The champagnee, improvement who has more,
size who can play the four that does all the
three AND d, stuff but just in a bigger, frame
that rebounds, more that has more defensive, versatility that kind of.
Thing which of those two things would you rate as
the bigger need because those are the two to, ME
i don't see any other. Contenders, well SO.
Speaker 1: I was well for your. Question, FIRST i would say
that it's the. Wing it's upgrading from The champenny, spot
just BECAUSE i can't bring myself to if you Play
victor Weben yama's, Position i'm not gonna like. Value, yes
it matters in the playoffs for up to ten minutes a,
game but, Like i'm not gonna make that the top.
Priority but the other, thing, too is that the spacing
for The spurs can get wonky at points in the half.
Court and While champagny is is a value add just
especially the way that he can fan out when he's in,
transition you want someone else who could do that with
maybe bigger size and even shoot threes it like higher
volume more consistently than he, Would AND i think that's
important when you look at their primary ball handlers right,
Now indian And, Fox Dilan, Harper Steph, castle that's really,
critical Even Devin, vessel Even. Wenby if you want him
to get more paint, touches self starting paint, touches or
just be more open when he's on the roll or
after he's slipping, screens that's a way to do. That
WHAT i was gonna say, though IS i would also
have like another floor general type BECAUSE i don't Think
Steph castle is so predicated on getting downhill to open
up his playmaking for. Others Dylan harper might get to
the point where he's. NOT i don't know that that's
ever gonna be His he has such a score first,
MINDSET i don't know that that's ever gonna be his.
Option AND i think we talked about why we we
Thought fox became an unfair scapegoat to a point in the.
Finals he is they if they traded him without getting
back someone who can run the, offense there's a chance
that this team is just worse next season BECAUSE i
don't know If Dylan harper is ready to just to
run the offense not Be he could be An All
star score right, now like he might be An all
star next, year he's gonna be an excellent. Player he
might he might. Appear this might be the team where
it's can you get two players like in the top
five OF mvp voting and yeah it's Wenby Dylan. Harper,
yeah you need another. PLAYER i think like, that an
organizer to come in during the Non fox, minutes whether
they're playing With castle or With harper without, them it
shouldn't be something you're spending a ton of money on
as long As Daron fox is in the. Building BUT
i think it's something it can't. Be jordan, McLoughlin, yeah
SO i.
Speaker 2: THINK i, MEAN i, agree you can't have watched the
finals and concluded that there's, enough you, know like capable
playmaking on this team like that that is what killed
them for multiple. GAMES i just think that the cost
you would have to pay to get someone to do
the things you're talking about that you could justify playing
over anybody that's on the current like on the current,
roster is so high that it's almost That i'm just
more comfortable just our guards Are, Fox castle And, harper
And i'm going to count on improvement from two of
the three as opposed to spending because like you. Do
AM i making that? Clear LIKE i THINK i can
sde that it's a it's a, need BUT i just,
like if you're gonna you, okay it can't Be jordan,
McLaughlin like we would have thrown Out Tyas jones in
of several previous off seasons of like someone to just
get things, organized. Right he's not a. Starter you just,
need you, know some competent. Minutes go see If Mike
comley wants to chase a ring with the new team
or something. LIKE i just think that that type of
player you could never justify playing him Over foxcastle Or
harper even if those three guys like just don't get any,
better but if they do, SO i would be more
comfortable just using my resources on the wing or at
backup center and hoping that those two young guards Specifically
castle And harper develop enough to where that's that solves,
it BECAUSE i don't know how you get the type
of player that you could justify playing over them without
really doing something, wild.
Speaker 1: Even if it's not an ordin maybe someone who's just
a little bit more comfortable with the like the ball
and moving it for like getting off of it quicker
for other.
Speaker 2: Well they just, like could you do it on the
cheap and get someone that like? Pings the ball around
is THAT i was gonna, say what About Jose? Alvarado, okay,
yeah as that player.
Speaker 1: Option or even, THIS i mean now this is he
would have to come for the mid, level and then
we have to talk about are you okay using the
mid LEVEL.
Speaker 2: Cj, McCollum, yeah or Like Colin, gillespie could you get
him for the mid level and?
Speaker 1: Free but you are to your point, though now all
of a, sudden we have what invested in guards like
these aren't wings, types SO i wouldn't rank it high
on the list of, priorities BUT i think that they
need a change up because there might just be situations
and If fox has ever liked that again in the,
finals you want to just be able to feel like
you could put whoever in over. Him but even if
the moment you're Pulling, castle if you're playing offense, defense
or if he's just so bad offensively that you decide
you need to move away from, him it would just
be nice to have. That would that be? There consider
their fourth or fifth guard that's actually, playable WHICH i
guess is an embarrassment of riches at that, point so
it's not their top. Need BUT i THINK i Don't
it's not That Dylan harper won't become this, player BECAUSE
i think he, will but next year's going to be
his sophomore, season, right and SO i don't want to
rush the idea OF i would like to see him
have another contingency in place who's Not castle and then
who's Not? Fox like what if this is the NEW
i don't think this is the new world order For.
FOX i think that the injury really impacted him in the,
finals but who, knows maybe it could.
Speaker 2: Be AND i think to your, point shooting would alleviate
a lot of the. Problem so you, know so like
maybe Maybe castle gets five percent better as a pick
and roll ball handler And harper gets who, knows ten
percent better and with one more shooter out there that
you cannot, ignore like suddenly everything is a lot easier
and the offense runs more. Smooth like shooting just cures
a news. Flash shooting cures a lot of offensive, ills
or at least forces the defense to play in ways
that can't capitalize on some limited. Playmaking so, YEAH i
THINK i think whatever happened more shooting pretty. Helpful there's
your spurs, offseason you, know a bullet. Point just get some,
shooting it'll be.
Speaker 1: FINE i think what's interesting about that when you're looking
at maybe targets before even getting into, them you kind
of have to ask how aggressive should they? Be and
it's you also have to, ask, well what is if
we've agreed that they need to upgrade the spot next
To wemby in the front court as an, example how
much of an upgrade From JULIAN champenni do you actually?
Need because that defines your aggression because IT'S i threw
Out Aaron gordon as a. Joke Aaron gordon be a
fantastic fit on this, team but at forty plus million
dollars a, year, like do.
Speaker 2: You need to be?
Speaker 1: That like you could get the math to work, somehow
you'd have to rope in other teams that never wants
to save money. Whatever but if you go out and
get someone like, that, yes it would help your. Team
but is that almost over indexing on the aggression that
we both sat here and just said a few minutes
ago they could win the title if they do nothing next,
year should they be out?
Speaker 2: There and, then on the other, hand you look at
the who made a lot of moves you would say
were overly aggressive or you, know were beyond pot, committed
and they did win, it you, Know so LIKE I
i think that's a little bit of a. Guide BUT
i did find AS i was going through potential, TARGETS
i wasn't maybe the answers, HERE i wasn't looking at
that The gordon level of salary type. Guys the one
that came closest IS. MPJ i JUST i feel like
that's the type of shooting and scoring threat that would
really have to change how teams played The spurs, defensively
so and comes with all basically everything we talked, about
a little more. Size he's not going to be a
backup center or anything like. That he's just not cut
out for. That but kind of a guy that does
a lot of champagne stuff plus more plus in a
like a bigger positional, size a big you, know larger.
Package so like other than, him, THOUGH i didn't really
go expensive or super, Ambitious SO i THINK i, think
how aggressive should they? Be the answer to me is like,
moderately you, KNOW i.
Speaker 1: Thought what about Is Trey murphy too aggressive for this?
Speaker 2: Team salary, wise certainly not if you're comfortable giving up
some of, those maybe you give up a bunch of
those like incoming picks that you have or those, swaps
because he he's ACTUALLY i don't know that he plays
like a whole lot bigger Than champagne, does BUT i
think he gets treated differently by defenses and has more
of like if you he's not just a, shooter like
just his, athleticism and he's, longer SO i would be
you can also play they.
Speaker 1: Went for him and you can also play him In champagne,
together Whereas Harrison barnes And Julian champagne together is a
non non. Option there's, yeah there's not enough like fake
and go between either of those two, guys Whereas murphy.
Speaker 2: Would definitely give you that Element ruimura, like you're JUST
i don't know how you're signing. HIM i just don't
think a bit of A, YEAH i think he's.
Speaker 1: Done who's closing more games for? Them champagne Or Hot
you can close with both of them, too, probably but.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's they're they talk about similar players and Just
hachimura is bigger that but they really are pretty. Close
so maybe maybe the the argument against that is like
they're too duplicative and it's not worth paying figuring out
how to pay more than the mid level to Get
haimura if you already Have champagne making three million, dollars you,
know potentially next year.
Speaker 1: In terms of like another NAME i thought of be
a trade Target Andrew wiggins for this team to do
it for you.
Speaker 2: Look who you're talking, TO, i, well is. There it
would have to be a trade because he's not opting
out to sign like a four for sixty sixty or.
Something yeah like. That that seems. Unlikely he was on
my list, too you get you, know you've got to
be careful with, saying, well he's a little more, dynamic
like he could get downhill because at his age that's
starting to go a little. Bit but he is. Bigger
he can definitely guard guys that That champagne And vissel,
cannot or at least he has that. Reputation, again be
careful with the agent curve on the cheaper end of,
It LIKE i guess he's got a partially non guaranteed
deal like Haywoodhigh smith would be an interesting like lower
level get a.
Speaker 1: Flyer there'd be an interesting lower level flyer two justin
champagnee is that?
Speaker 2: Allowed can you do?
Speaker 1: THAT i hope, SO i thought about he doesn't provide the,
shooting but you talk about downhill and then some like
positional versatilion DEFENSE Nausei marshall for the sugar OR. Pj
washington his teammate might be the better fit, overall, right
you could slide him up to the, five certainly in
a playoff.
Speaker 2: Setting, well you Mentioned Aaron Gordon Spencer. Jones he's, restricted
but that if you're trying on the cheap like good,
size apparently somehow makes threes despite it looking like it's
never going.
Speaker 1: In his his form looks like he's trying to Recreate
Michale bridges' hitch in, practice but, worse.
Speaker 2: The whole shot is a. HITCH i would, say, basically, uh,
threes though last year or so it goes. In that's
one where it's, Like i'm gonna need to see at
least a couple more years of that BEFORE i believe
that's ever going in. Regularly, Actually, Oh Mittie, stible, LIKE
i don't know if the shooting will ever be something
defenses care, about but can you imagine him knowing he
Has wemby on the back, line just what he would do,
defensively just just like he's in the passing lanes as it,
is but you would he would just be fully, unleashed
like you've just unthinkable. Disruption and he would not cost
the mid. LEVEL i don't Think Dean.
Speaker 1: Wade they could probably afford, him does He he's not
a better shooter Than. Champagne so that's more of a
just a depth piece that we think could play in the,
finals which he he could, have like you probably playing
him Over Keldon johnson for some of those stretches you.
Speaker 2: Might have because He'd, YEAH i think that's a good.
One John, collins can you get him for the mid
level because he shot it great last? Year, again maybe
you could use him as a postseason backup. CENTER i
don't know how comfortable you'd be with, that BUT i
like him as just a Bigger champagne who can do
a little bit more defensively just because of his, SIZE i,
Think and Actually collins is not bad if he's got a,
guard a smaller. Player he's not like the bouncy guy
that's blocking shots like he was With atlanta years. Ago
BUT i think there's something.
Speaker 1: There should they be looking at any of the guys
THAT okac could theoretically. Dump Kendrick williams Or Aaron. WIGGINS
i think are the two that would stand out to me.
Speaker 2: There Wiggins wiggins would kind OF i MEAN i already
kind of compared. HIM i Imagine wiggins would slot in Behind,
champenny but in a similar. Role can do a little
more with the. Ball MAYBE i Think wiggins. Can but,
UH i, again we're kind of looking. For if you're
looking for that's feels like regular season, depth you, know
feels more like regular season. Depth the front court is
where it's more interesting to, Me like your your potential backup,
centers and you're.
Speaker 1: Like how much that spot are you and because you, could,
like can you open up maybe some more dual big
combination Since wenby's a good, spacer AND i think the
two names THAT i just have circled here would Be
Robert williams the third Or Mitchell. ROBINSON i think the issue, there,
though is those two are not very, durable and if
you're all trying to like buy regular season, innings they
might not be the players to depend. On but if
you're Keeping Lou cornett then it's. Not then it's.
Speaker 2: NOT i kind OF i don't know how realistic it
is BECAUSE i don't know what the market for him would.
Be BUT i kind of viewed a lot of my
center thoughts with the idea That cornett would not be,
there you, know like this is the new backup And cornett's,
gone just because it's more fun that, way frankly to
think about. It so the OTHER i, HAD i Had
mitch and Time lord for, sure what about Like mamu
as as like at a EXCELLENT i mean as a,
spacer as an like he's a good, passer he can you,
know is he any?
Speaker 1: Face he wasn't really playable or he did he played
in the playoffs with The, raptors but like he's. NOT
i feel like they could run into some of the
same defensive issues that they did With. Cornett, YES i.
Speaker 2: View, Yeah i'm thinking of him more in tandem With
wemby than like as as a replacement for. Him and
maybe that's different If Carter bryant takes a step forward
to and you can kind of mix and match who
you have each of them guard in terms of their
front court, matchups and the other one is porzingis if
like if you could be interesting forty regular season games
out of him and then he's actually healthy for most
of the. Playoffs like that would BE i, mean you
could get a lot done. Offensively he would talk about
the spacing help for the guards like a we've we've
you've brought this, Up like wouldn't it be great If
wemby could just do The porzingis like elbow catch and
draw foul, Thing, like, well now you would just Have
forzingis to do, that so that, Works like they would
be a safe those two.
Speaker 1: Together what is that like eighteen feet OF i mean
it would.
Speaker 2: Work like like why wouldn't it? Work Like wemby can?
Move that's? Fine, YEAH i Don't, Yeah collins was my other.
ONE i kind of had both in the forward end center. Slots,
uh this is very.
Speaker 1: ODD i don't know if he can play the. Five
Kyle philipowski might be. INTERESTING i don't know if If
utah Keeps Walker kessler and wants like a more traditional
big to back him And Jaron jackson junior, up Maybe philipowski's.
Speaker 2: Available, yeah as at least as a regular six season.
Proposition it's kind of intriguing to me for The spurs
second unit or just second like Whenever wemby's not on the,
floor to just be super offensively oriented and just like try,
to you, know if in the in the six minute
stints That wemby, rest just try to have like a
one thirty offensive rating and give up a one twenty
five and call it. Good you, Know LIKE i THINK
i think that would Be that's one way to, go
because you as athletic as The spurs can, be just
run just When wemby's not on the, floor just like
get up and down and see what you can. Do you,
KNOW i think their identity is built on, defense so
it's not so easy to flip that. Switch But philipowski
would at least and really mom move for that, matter
and some of the other guys we mentioned would fit
into that that.
Speaker 1: Mold do you Think Daniel gafford would have been more
playable Than cornett down the stretch of the, Season.
Speaker 2: Maybe a, LITTLE i, mean just as a just more
athletic and not quite so vulnerable to like being out in.
Space MAYBE i think? So do you think? SO I,
like there's a lot he's probably a better lob, threat
even though that's kind of What cornett is out there for,
Offensively efford when he's healthy is one of the best
lob catchers in the. League.
Speaker 1: YEAH i don't like that contract THOUGH i wasn't a
fan of it in real, time AND i don't think
it's aged that. Great. MAYBE i, mean you just wouldn't
have to give up a. Ton i'm staring at three
names that they. WOULD i think they'd only be. Moved
you're coming in The spurs as a third team because
these players are being moved as part of like a larger.
Package Uh na's.
Speaker 2: Reed, YEAH i mean, there there's there's a lot to
like about his fit With wemby or as a replacement for,
Him AND i keep coming back, to, like Is Carter
bryant gonna be like this defensive monster on the second
unit because you kind of need that If reid is
going to play backup center for. You, yeah that's interesting.
Speaker 1: That oh the other name was Khalil. Ware, OH i
don't love as. MUCH i don't like it as. Much
BUT i thought it was like if they were just
continuing to lean into youth And milwaukee doesn't want, him
if there's A yanni's trade to be had out, There uh,
huh but you. COULD i, mean he's played With, bams
we could certainly play With.
Speaker 2: Wemby, yeah, yeah uh, HM i, LIKE i mean OBVIOUSLY
i like read better even though the cost is so much. Higher,
YEAH i mean is.
Speaker 1: He Health Steven adams? Healthy, YEAH i, MEAN i, Know
i'm appreciing of.
Speaker 2: The yeah, again you gave Me wiggins and you give
Me Steven. Adams. UH i mean he would be incredible
if only because you would remove him from the group
of players that could Beat wemby up over the course
of a, season just like the savings on that end
of it alone might be worth.
Speaker 1: IT i think that's LIKE i don't even know they're.
Big the upgrading from The champagnie spot is like more
difficult than you would, think.
Speaker 2: Right, WELL i got a holistic guys that it's like
you might, say, there you could squint and say they're
upgrades just thinking free age Like Norm. Powell yeah maybe
but like offensively but maybe but not defensively and also
not any. Bigger Quentin grimes like kind of the same
story Like dissume mu Matherin Kobe, white Like Kean. Ellis
like all these guys are kind of like, yeah they
sort of would semi fit into the same. Spot and
you could see that in some aspects they'd be, better
but not enough to justify, Like, okay this is where
the mid levels, going and several of those guys won't
even sign for the mid, level Like white for. Example
what About Cam? Johnson so what's going out in?
Speaker 1: THAT i, Mean denver's looking At, DENVER i feel, like
is gonna do something this offseason that we all? Hate
and so they're saving money somehow there's another team, involved
and maybe you're giving up a pick plus like The
Keldon johnson, money and THEN i think that actually might
be enough for The spurs to do it because they're
so far into the. Tax but you could include other
small salaries if you need. To maybe it's A Harrison
barnes sign in trade or something he's.
Speaker 2: Just, inspiring, right like twenty three Expiring.
Speaker 1: CHAMPAGNIE i think is the better, defender But Cam johnson
definitely has more feel on the offensive end as a
passer and even just a score and he might.
Speaker 2: Yeah AND i think he might just be a better shooter.
Overall MAYBE i THINK i.
Speaker 1: Would say, NO i think that's that's definitely, Right and
could you you could play those two together as? Well,
Right And champenne if you wanted, To, YEAH i.
Speaker 2: DON'T i THINK i think you could. THAT i, LIKE
i tell, you i'd like that fit better Than Keldon
johnson In champagne for you, know for, example just because
you're getting icy Double, space we're talking about him. Upgrades,
YEAH i don't really have a lot of other. Names,
no there's way down the, list Like Luke canard could
be someone that you could get for cheap that is
going to Space and maybe that's the type of like
stabilizing secondary ball handler you're talking, About like you want
to Jont, milton you want who back To Jonta murray?
Back or he's not ticking any boxes as far AS
i can see the ball.
Speaker 1: Handling come? On does The fox the the only thing
that we haven't talked about with regard to, this AND
i think it. Should it bleeds through in the names
that we. Suggested i'm not hawking The Aaron fox around
the league BECAUSE i don't think his trade value is
going to be very. High i'd rather try to if
the goal is to get out of that, contract he's
a better chance of rehabilitating it this, season because, otherwise
who's the? Player maybe like In Aaron, gordon there have
to be other teams, involved but just as a for,
instance or even if It's, wiggins if you're Sending fox To, miami,
like how much do you need to attach to make
that happen? Now because of the way his contract might
be viewed around the. League, AGAIN i think perception is
veering too far in the wrong. Direction but the state
of play right now IS i don't think you Put
fox on the trade market that you're getting value for.
Speaker 2: Him probably. NOT i was just looking at, like Supporter
junior makes about forty and is expiring In fox next
year's at forty nine and a, half and that would
work because Of brooklyn's cap. SPACE i, think just not
running in through the trade.
Speaker 1: Machine but then you need to go out and get
the primary ball, handler like someone who is more of
a view Than Dylan. Harper IF i do, That i'm
just SAYING i Think Dylan harper can be my every down,
QUARTERBACK i.
Speaker 2: Think and that's not a crazy bet to. Make, no it's,
me it's.
Speaker 1: Not but it's also, Okay so what is the? Backup
so It's Steph castle And Dylan, harper and that's who's
charged with our offensive Sanctity, okay, look it might, work
BUT i need another layer of protection that's Not jordan,
McLoughlin don't, well.
Speaker 2: Okay which you could go Get adam and you can
find him maybe and then maybe we're back in The
Tias jones business or something like what WAS i.
Speaker 1: Saying they need to go out and trade For John
brunton if you're gonna trade To michael because.
Speaker 2: Well, okay last, thing because we've belabored this a little.
Bit but LIKE i, WOULD i would happily just take
BACK mpj For fox and know THAT i was getting
out of the fifty to sixty. Million i'm gonna pay
on the out years on that deal and just HOPE
i trust one Trust harper And castle to get good
enough at WHAT i need them to get good. At
with the benefit OF mpj providing better spacing and, TRUSTING
i could go find someone for the minimum or maybe
a little bit more than, that depending ON i, mean
you've just saved, money by the way with that, deal and,
awesome LIKE i can get my third guard somewhere.
Speaker 1: Else you need the you need THE i need to
know what the move after that. IS i won't, say
LIKE i too high on The Iron fox as a
player still and how important he was to their offensive
structure during the. Season for me to just say getting
out of that money is this huge win for you know?
What what does that do for you getting out of that?
Speaker 2: Money, no that's so getting out of the money isn't
the principal motivator.
Speaker 1: Here it's just Exposing wenby To Andrew tate. Podcasts you know, what.
Speaker 2: For these, Reasons i'm back. Out maybe Maybe wenby could
like Talk Andrew tait out of all of his beliefs
just by being, like you're not you're not seeing the
world for what it.
Speaker 1: IS i don't think ahead out of his. Beliefs but,
YEAH i think The fox thing would be the Only
it's funny BECAUSE i am impressed by then we don't
have a bunch of people clamoring for them to get
involved in The yanni, sweepstakes which could be over by
the time you listen to. This uh maybe so hopefully
That i'm impressed. By but The fox move just feels
nuclear to me because even if you're viewing it as
we got off his money and we're Getting Porter junior
in here as an expiring, contract to, me then you
still need to go make a move that's angled at
with some immediate, urgency just to couch the idea that
what If castle has moments like he did and it
doesn't improves a pick and roll ball handler as a,
Spacer and then what If Dylan harper is only An
All star next year instead of An ALL nba. Player
so that's that's why The fox move would still feel,
nuclear especially if you're not getting a like ANOTHER i had,
thought is there something If miami is like really trying
to star hump at the, Moment i'm not sure IF i.
WAS i threw this at you was Can fox go
To memphis because there's, like now you don't have to
care about his contract as much As memphis because you're,
rebuilding but you also don't want to be terrible in
the new lottery. Format Jahn morant To miami and then,
like did you send out stuff and Got Tyler hero
and then he's giming an off ball player? Too or
is that The wiggins? Deal but again Then i'm still
looking at what are we doing with the can you
Get Pele larson as part of that as with just
another ball handler in?
Speaker 2: Here, YEAH i think this will be we should track
this BECAUSE i think we just kind of disagree about
how Viable San antonio's offense could be if you just
Replaced fox with a non guard and turned it over
to the guys they.
Speaker 1: HAVE i JUST i don't.
Speaker 2: KNOW I i think it also you have to factor in,
that Like fox is entering part of his career where
like he's gonna get, worse you, know like he's an
athleticism based, player and all the rim numbers have trended
down for years and the three point shots never, Stabilized
like he. Matters he's a good, player BUT i think
you could get a good player at another spot for
him and then trust, that LIKE i so here's here's
here's the. Thing maybe there's some Like i'm being protective
here BECAUSE i Thought wemby would be, spectacular and THEN
i picked The spurs to finish with like forty four
wins or. Something you can't you don't get to do.
Both so With, HARPER i don't get to SAY i
think this guy is the greatest thing ever. Seen mild,
Exaggeration like just mild with the, exaggeration and then say,
like BUT i don't think in year two he could
take on the lion's share of the, playmaking Like i'm
trying To i'm gonna be consistent BECAUSE i wasn't With,
wimby AND i.
Speaker 1: Think that you've. Been i'm incredibly high On Dillan, harper
and you are just a believer like, him being more
of AN i, think, yeah you've NEVER i feel like
you haven't focused on the playmaking when you're talking about. That,
no you're.
Speaker 2: Right and and this is me just saying a guy
that can do all the things that he does and
like clearly to me sees the game the way that he,
DOES i think he. CAN i think either he already
has had the ability to play make and wasn't allowed
to do, it or is so talented and has such
a good head for it that he'll figure it. Out
LIKE i, really it's it's kind of a blind faith.
Argument and it is me just SAYING i think he's
so incredible as a prospect that it like it would
be impossible for me to imagine him not just finding
way or uncovering what's already there in terms of like
just being an elite. PLAYMAKER i just and and so you're,
Right Like i'm not citing his you, know, oh how
often does he hit the weak side corner on a
pick on like a sling pet. LIKE i JUST i
don't know what the data. SAYS i imagine it's not super,
favorable and The spurs no more than we. Do by the,
way they didn't let him do, That so that's a
data point in your favor where it's, like, well if
he was, this if he was so, great he would
have shown it in. Practice they would have given him
the ball Over fox a long time. Ago. FAIR i
just think IT'S i think a guy with that much
potential just like he'll find a way and maybe maybe
all he, is maybe is AN sga level lead ball.
Handler maybe that's all he. Is who's you know that
kind of score first?
Speaker 1: Guy, uh do you have anything else on The? Spur
this run longer THAN i thought it was going To?
Fortino we don't think necessarily needs to do, much but
they The wembi of it all that like, you by the,
way you do need to operate with his zembleence of
urgency because you kind of just proved. It you everyone
Thought oklahoma said he was just going to be back.
Here they're. Not how many times we Thought tamax is
going to be back? Here so if you have a chance.
To if it involves Trading, fox then, yeah go ahead
and do. It So i'm not against Trading, fox it's
just what you're saying to. ME i feel like it
could be more likely to see them and take a
step back next year if they're not have another move lined.
Speaker 2: Up but, yeah let's, see all, right we'll. See thanks
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