WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to the River Rambler, a production of Swinging the 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:10.240 Fly magazine and sponsored by Jaymon Bamboo Rods. 3 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.760 Welcome to the River Rambler production of Swinging the Fly Magazine. 4 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:24.879 About five six weeks ago, I was driving between my 5 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:29.120 daughter's houses and I needed at backing to put on 6 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:30.120 a couple of reels. 7 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:32.439 I needed backing on a couple of reels. 8 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.560 And I'm driving up to the Catskills and I thought 9 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.560 i'd stop into Deddy's fly shop that I hadn't met 10 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:45.600 into and probably conservatively forty years, and I met Patrick Cook. 11 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:49.079 Patrick, thanks for taking time to visit. 12 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:50.799 Yeah, I wouldn't miss it for the world. 13 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:58.280 So let's talk about, Uh, how you got started fishing 14 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.039 and how steel hadder ended up in the Catskills. 15 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:06.400 Yeah, right, Well, I grew up in Michigan, so I 16 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:15.840 grew up doing everything Michigan kids do, which is Wisconsin. Wisconsin. Uh, 17 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:26.239 I don't know. Fago. That's a Michigan thing, drinking fago. Uh. 18 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:30.319 Pop guy, No, So it's good to hear somebody say 19 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.120 pop though, you know. So it's it's soda soda here. 20 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:35.120 Yeah, that's the East. 21 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:36.640 Yeah that was he. 22 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:38.079 Already hammered with a parent thing. 23 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:44.480 So so, uh yeah, I just grew up doing everything 24 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:50.519 Michigan kids did, which was whatever, play hockey, go fishing, 25 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.680 you know, everything outside at that time in the in 26 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:58.560 the eighties, and I was lucky enough to grow up 27 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:05.159 on a lake, and uh you know, fishing was just 28 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:06.480 part of the whole thing, you know. 29 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:13.319 Uh, me and whatever revolving door friends, we would just 30 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:17.599 take the canoe out and fish for bass and whatever else. 31 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:24.120 And I did that well, you know, well into high 32 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.319 school until whatever girls showed up. 33 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:33.319 Girls, Yeah you are you spin fishing? Fly fishing? 34 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:38.759 Uh well, so predominantly spin fishing. And when I was 35 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.360 whatever at my youngest, and then I have two older brothers, 36 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.319 one of whom, when I say older, they you know, 37 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:52.120 I'm in my mid forties, so they're about ten years 38 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:58.120 older than me. So they were already in college or 39 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:07.520 finishing college when I was whatever in my early probably 40 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:11.599 early teens, maybe younger than that. Anyway, So one of 41 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:15.719 my brothers moved out to Yack in Washington, and he 42 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:22.919 came back with fly rod and we were on the 43 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:30.520 Little Manistee River, which is north northwest Michigan, and you know, 44 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.240 he wanted to go check it out. His fly rod 45 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:35.280 and everything, and I was I can't remember how old 46 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.840 I was, but I remember, you know, I had a 47 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.319 little bay caster and you know, we went to the 48 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.479 fly shop so that he could get flies or whatever. 49 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.000 And then I got like a little popper thing that 50 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:49.919 you couldn't cast with a bay caster obviously, and then 51 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:51.879 I just was, you know, seeing him off in the 52 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.960 distance doing it. He didn't want to be anywhere near 53 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.520 me and my dad obviously. You know, it was just 54 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:02.759 kind of like a whatever that river runs through a moment, 55 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:04.960 you know what I mean, where you just see someone 56 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.479 doing it and you're like, oh, that's no, that's what 57 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:08.560 I need to do now. 58 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:08.840 Yeah. 59 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:14.919 Yeah, uh so, yeah, it was just it was heavily 60 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:18.079 influenced by my brother. My other brother got into it 61 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.399 as well. Then he ended up spending a large portion 62 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:31.720 of his probably you know, post college years guiding out 63 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:34.920 on the south Fork of the Snake. So I was 64 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:36.639 lucky enough to be able to go out there and 65 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:39.560 fish with him and spend summers out there with him 66 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.000 if if I need, if need, be so pretty cool. 67 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:48.800 Yeah, yeah, I wish my brother fished with me. No 68 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:51.040 no interest, nobody, nobody in my family has any interest. 69 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:55.600 I don't know, you know, if what we did, I 70 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.279 don't know if there was more yelling at me than fishing, 71 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.360 you know what I mean, Like it was, well. 72 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:01.079 I got a little brother. 73 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:03.079 Okay, yeah I too. 74 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.759 I know what that's about. What are you drinking? 75 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:13.759 Oh? It's so. One of the local breweries is called 76 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.079 Upper Brewery, which is near the shop down and living 77 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:23.079 I live in Roscoe, and then the shops down in Livingston, Manor, 78 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:25.480 which we can get into because you know the shop 79 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.600 from Roscoe. But anyway, there's a brewery there called Upward 80 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:32.959 and this is a fishing buddy willow we mock Lagger, 81 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:36.240 named after the Willowemoc Creek, which is one of the 82 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:40.680 rivers that rolls through, which I'm sure you know from 83 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:41.560 fishing down here. 84 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:45.079 Yeah, not be on ages, but I hung out down 85 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.279 there a lot in college. 86 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:47.319 Sure. 87 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:53.959 But so you're fishing the snake with your brother. You're 88 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.560 fishing still in Michigan. 89 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:01.600 Right, So then yeah, Steelhead, Uh, the steel I think 90 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:08.160 probably came about a little later. I'm trying to think. 91 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:14.519 I couldn't I couldn't nail down in an age, but I 92 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.800 remember being old enough to drink. But it was you know, 93 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.839 I was predominantly just ind indicator fishing for him up 94 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.319 on you know, the rivers in northern Michigan, which. 95 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:29.040 Luckily I wasn't gonna shame you into admitting that. 96 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:33.120 Well, I think any any that. 97 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.680 Was for the longest time that was in the Great Lakes, 98 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.319 the thought that's how you had to fish for. 99 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:40.279 If you even had an indicator. I mean that there 100 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:42.680 was the chuck and duck method too, which is just 101 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:48.079 full mono rig with you know, a rope of weight. Yeah, 102 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:55.000 I remember watching I don't, I don't. There was some 103 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.680 fishing show you know that popped up on YouTube from 104 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:00.439 like the eighties or something, and they were on the 105 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.439 Manistee and they were doing it, you know, and you're 106 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.680 like wow, uh and then you know, but that was 107 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.759 the most effective, most effective way they knew how to 108 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.360 do it at that point. And but the thing about 109 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.519 those rivers are you know, they're all old logging rivers, 110 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:20.560 so that they aren't the easiest to fish, you know 111 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:22.079 a lot. That's why a lot of those guys are 112 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.720 swinging those rivers. Kevin Fienstra, you know, John Ray, all 113 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:27.839 those guys, you know, a lot of the spade fishing 114 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:31.319 has done from a boat, just because they've been so 115 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.319 dredged out by by all the logging that went on. 116 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:40.480 Is that what created that entry? 117 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:48.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's it's really like you you're 118 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.240 fishing more. I mean, we're kind of I think we're 119 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.680 getting ahead of ourselves in terms of like the evolution 120 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:59.759 of we skipped over a lot. But yeah, yeah, but yeah, 121 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.879 it's all that stuff is pretty well dredged out by 122 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.240 just you know, all the logging that took place there 123 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:08.240 for the white pines. 124 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:09.680 That's fascinating. 125 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:14.560 I hadn't realized it was caused by us, which yeah, 126 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.439 I thought I thought it was just a geologic, geologic 127 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:19.319 kind of anomaly. 128 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.439 Yeah, No, there was just I mean, I I don't 129 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:24.720 let's lets let's say, don't quote me. I'm sure there's 130 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:26.800 some geologic stuff that happened. 131 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:30.360 You know, there's nothing, there's no mistake. 132 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.799 Right, But you know, certain rivers are easier to like 133 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:39.440 just wade swinging than others, but are definitely you know, 134 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:48.200 like in Schedule Masters, where oh this is going to 135 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.120 get me in big trouble. They go back to Michigan. Yeah, 136 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:54.679 and they're on the man and they're fishing it from 137 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.919 a boat. You know, it's just best attacked from that position. 138 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.639 You can definitely wait fish all those rivers. But you know, 139 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:03.759 if you want to cover water, which we all know 140 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.080 is best for catching swinging flies for steelhead, you know, 141 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.960 doing it from the boat is the best, is the 142 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.080 most effective way to do it. Probably. 143 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.720 Yeah. I think Kevin and a few other guys kind 144 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:17.919 of uh pioneered that. 145 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:33.200 It's it's crazy to me that that that ever approach 146 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.799 before really with the history of spay fishing and it, 147 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.120 you know, it took those guys that are still doing 148 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:39.960 it now, you know what I mean, are that really 149 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.159 we're we're pioneering it. It's just it's a cool thing 150 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:49.440 and they really do a good job of keeping up 151 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.480 that tradition there. So yeah, cool. 152 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:55.519 See, Okay, so that's backtrack. 153 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:01.639 Yeah, sorry, steel ahead. Yeah. So then, uh, I think 154 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:07.960 it was just discovering the resource after a few you 155 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.840 know a period of time, and knowing that you know, 156 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.960 on the west coast of Michigan, you have all on 157 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:19.919 the west you know, I was centered in Manistee, Michigan, 158 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:25.600 So you would have four rivers, four to five rivers 159 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:30.559 within you know, two and a half three hours from 160 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:34.759 my parents' house at that time, so it was, you know, 161 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.080 it was a real playground to do whatever you want. 162 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.159 So a lot of a lot of driving around. Bobber 163 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:51.279 fishing for sure, and then you know, the spade fishing thing. 164 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:55.480 I can't I cannot like pinpoint it, but I think 165 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:59.600 it was just being there and seeing someone else do it, 166 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:04.399 you know, you know, knowing it was there. It wasn't 167 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:10.559 like it wasn't like I was someone was like, oh 168 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.519 this is you know, this is spade fishing. It was 169 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.240 more just me being there and you know, I was. 170 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.440 I remember actually I remember being it was a tippy 171 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.840 dam and on the Maynistee River and I was on 172 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.120 one side of the river, and across the river from me, 173 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.879 someone was spade fishing and I remember seeing that and 174 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:28.840 I mean like, well it looks like a switch rod, 175 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:30.559 but there's no bobber on the end of it, you 176 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:32.240 know what I mean. So then you start researching a 177 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.600 little bit, and it was really kind of just researching 178 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:38.159 it in my own and then that wormhole kind of 179 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:43.480 really opened up and it was I mean, came over. 180 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:45.799 Yeah. 181 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.639 It kind of is huh, you can't go back. 182 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:52.000 It's funny because it is a far less effective way 183 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.279 of catching fish than bobber fishing. 184 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.919 No, it's it's incredibly less. But the thing was like 185 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:04.159 water fishing the Maynistee probably unless you let's, unless you're 186 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:08.279 using like a center pin rod, you're not going to 187 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.360 catch a lot of fish anyways. I mean, you just 188 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:14.759 can't get just not the most effective way to do 189 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.159 it either way. So I wasn't catching a lot of fish. 190 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.360 And then I'm like, I'm already not catching a lot 191 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:22.480 of fish, so let's just continue that, but do it 192 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:27.240 in a more poetic way, I guess, you know. 193 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:31.480 And then. 194 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:34.879 So are we gonna do we need to tie this 195 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:41.120 into how I work at Daddy's eventually, Okay, yeah, this 196 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:46.600 isn't a race. Okay, No, that's fine. Yeah, I don't know. 197 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.080 I just kind of went out on my own and whatever, 198 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:54.000 bought a space rod and just start doing it. 199 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.399 You know the shop there that's. 200 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.960 Well at that at that time, there's there's a shot 201 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:06.519 there called at that point it was called Schmidt's, Schmidt's 202 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:13.639 Schmidt Outfitters, and now it's called the Manistee River Lodge. 203 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:18.600 But I think I ordered the rod online from somewhere. 204 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:24.320 It was like a TFO a Deer Creek space rod. 205 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:31.039 I did not buy it from Schmidt, which now looking back, 206 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:32.200 I should have, but I did not. 207 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.679 Oh it's That's one of the things about I think 208 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.120 folks your age is that you guys came up when 209 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.960 when the internet was just immediate thought. 210 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:49.759 Yeah. Yeah, it was really easy, but it was It 211 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:53.879 was kind of a interesting learning experience because I would 212 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.600 go to Schmidt for to get flies. You know, so 213 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.320 I'm researching it online and a lot of the stuff 214 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.679 that comes up is is kind of West Coast stuff, 215 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.600 and you're looking at all the West Coast flies and 216 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.480 then you would go in I'd go into Schmidt and you. 217 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:09.879 Know, a. 218 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:16.559 Great Lakes steelhead fly is for the most part, vastly 219 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.039 different looking from a West Coast fly. 220 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.759 Yeah. So you're like, and I think, especially over there 221 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.799 in Michigan, I think had a big influence. 222 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.639 Yeah, yeah, a lot heavily influenced by Fiendstra and you 223 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:33.039 know that. 224 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:40.399 Yeah, oh god, yeah yeah that well, you know, eggs 225 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:44.639 sucking leech being the basis for a lot of the flies, 226 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.639 Like you know, Dave has his. 227 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.240 Eat a peach leech, and then Fiendstra had the gape, 228 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:57.120 the grapefruit leech or the Halloween leech, and it's it's 229 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:03.080 all kind of more leech centric, more or attractor if anything, 230 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.360 you know what I mean, because we all know there's 231 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.000 it's rare to find a leech swimming around with an 232 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.279 egg and it's you know, sucking on an egg. So 233 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.200 it's never seen it personally. Someone else might have. I 234 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:17.600 don't know, but I've. 235 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:20.840 Seen I've seen a snake eat a fish, but I 236 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.519 have not seen a leech eat an egg. 237 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.519 And the sculping stuff there is big too, though, And 238 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:31.759 then you know the thing, the whole thing with the gobies, 239 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.279 you know, and being an invasive species that kind of 240 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.360 took over. Really. I think that's kind of when you know, 241 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.720 you see more. The more realistic patterns would be those 242 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.679 representing you know, goby or sculpting like that, and those 243 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.799 all those work equally as well. 244 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.519 That's I found it. I mean, I haven't fished in Michigan, 245 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.679 but in New York where I fished for a long 246 00:15:55.679 --> 00:16:02.600 long time. Yeah, sculpings and crayfish, oh yeah, get pounded pretty. 247 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:10.600 Hard, definitely. Yeah, the the bait fish, certain rivers we 248 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.559 we know of here in New York that don't might 249 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:19.480 not get a salmon run and those fish are especially grabby. Yeah, 250 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.919 and they're really looking for a shiner or something like 251 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.440 that that that they're used to seeing out in the lake, 252 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.840 which is great, real fun. 253 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.159 So, uh, you were buying flies? When did you start tying? 254 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.919 Well, it was actually right around the time. So when 255 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.639 I went and bought a fly rod, see my brother 256 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:49.360 do it. I bought stuff to tie flies as well. 257 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.320 I was like, you know, I bought a few flies. 258 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.759 They had, you know, like a mosquito or whatever, and 259 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.159 so I bought a few of those, and I'm like, 260 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:58.879 and I bought some supplies to tie them. But you know, 261 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:01.960 I was I was fishing on the lake and that 262 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:07.920 we grew up on and I learned two things you 263 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.680 need well you don't need advice. But at that point, 264 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:13.640 like I was just doing it, you know, if my 265 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:14.799 hands or whatever, you know. 266 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.640 So there was an Adrian Cortes here you can tell. 267 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.000 Well, I didn't have I didn't have it, but I 268 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:22.920 just bought the stuff to do it. And I'm like 269 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.240 just lashing stuff to a hook. So I learned that 270 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.799 a you're gonna fly as you should get the right 271 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.759 stuff to do it. And be as you're watching your 272 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.000 fly dissolve and fall apart in the water, bluegill will 273 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.480 still chase a bare hook. So that was that was 274 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:42.160 eye opening. 275 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.319 Are the gift to beginning tires and fly fishermen. 276 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:55.039 You know, I've said this about this is probably should 277 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:58.119 come up later in the conversation, but growing being here 278 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.839 in the Castles now is it's so eccentric. But there's 279 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:06.319 also like some phenomenal small mouth bass fishing in the area. 280 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.440 And you know, we get people new people that come 281 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.039 into the shop and they're like, oh, yeah, I want 282 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.279 to get a fly rod, I want to trut fish. Okay, 283 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.640 that's great, let's do the fly rod. But have you 284 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:21.200 thought about small mouth bass like there they'll eat anything. 285 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.160 They don't care like, they're very forgiving to a new angler, 286 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.440 and they're like, that's cool, but where do I catch trout? 287 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.240 I'm like, okay, fine. 288 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.640 It's funny that the my my first fishing buddy that 289 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.680 I used to go down to the Catskills with from 290 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.160 when I lived up near Rochester. We'd be down there 291 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:40.559 and all of a sudden he just get lit up 292 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.480 and be going like crazy, and he'd be all excited 293 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.480 and he'd go, oh, it's a small mouth, and I'm. 294 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:46.839 Like, look what it's doing. 295 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:55.559 Yeah, they are definitely definitely one of my favorite game fish. 296 00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:03.640 They you know, in the summertime. I don't for a 297 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.079 trout year round here, but I definitely pulled the cut 298 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:12.599 off for my own personal conservation reasons. When you know, 299 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.400 certain rivers get too warm or the pressure gets heavy, 300 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:21.279 and I just start swinging flies for small mouth and god, 301 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:24.359 it's so fun. I mean, they eat they really like 302 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:28.039 a palm skater, which I've learned recently. We last summer, 303 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:33.119 we were practicing for our trip to the Shoots down 304 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.759 and so we were skating a lot of different foam 305 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:39.960 skaters and they will just crush those things midday, full sunlight, 306 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:41.920 just no whole bar like. 307 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.680 So, well, it's funny. I'm firm believe that you'll probably 308 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:51.319 catch more fish subsurface, but I pretty much only pass 309 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.519 fish on top. 310 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.519 Yeah, why would you do so fun Yeah, I mean 311 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.079 it's they'll eat it most of the time, so you 312 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:03.160 might as well just it that way. But yeah, they're 313 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:09.559 they're just they're they're the perfect fish. But you know, 314 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.480 I think the Lord of the catskills makes you want 315 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.960 to skip that part of the deal. But you have 316 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.279 you'd have success a lot sooner if you gave them 317 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.400 a chance. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. 318 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.920 So, so did you go to school in Michigan? 319 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.839 I did, Yeah, I went. I went to school. I 320 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:40.720 started out in philosophy, and then my philosophy professor at 321 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:44.279 the time, Conna, said, well, if you're going to continue 322 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.000 with this, you can do two things. You can either 323 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.119 drive a cab or be a lawyer. 324 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.960 Or I was going to ask, was it was it 325 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.960 college professor or lawyer that you're raiming for? 326 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.039 Yeah? Right, well, at that point, you know, I was 327 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.880 then I kind of switched over to getting into more 328 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:09.680 English and so kind of carried on down that road. 329 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:16.680 I and now I work in a fla shop. 330 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:24.960 But there's something dropped. Yeah, so what got you in 331 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:25.920 cat skills? 332 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:31.640 Uh? Well, I actually I moved to New York City 333 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:44.440 for a relationship and that didn't pan out. So I 334 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.279 spent you know, some time still there, and then uh, 335 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.039 you know, I pulled the ripcord. Eventually. You know, I 336 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:51.799 was driving up here to fish all the time, and 337 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.839 I was actually working. I would drive up I was 338 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.400 working as a carpenter, a set carpenter for film and 339 00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:01.799 photo shoots in the city, and then I would drive 340 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:05.119 up here to work part time on the weekends at 341 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.640 a fly shop, not at the deadI shop, but at 342 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:12.160 a different shop. I would drive up, so I'd work 343 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.400 during the week as a set carpenter, and then I 344 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:19.440 would Friday after work, I would drive up to the 345 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.079 Catskills to work part time at a flight shop up 346 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:27.559 on the Delaware system. And then after a couple of 347 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:31.119 years of that, the owner of the shop at that 348 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.799 time called and said, Hey, I have a full, full 349 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.119 time position. Do you want to take it? And I said, yeah, well, 350 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.960 now let's do it. And that's kind of how it happened. 351 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.599 And then I worked at that shop for about I 352 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.920 think it was about three years, and then managing that shop. 353 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:58.440 And then it was kind of actually like during the 354 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.680 housing crisis during COVID, you could not find anything up 355 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.960 here to rent, and I was renting a place up 356 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:16.799 on the Delaware system, and because everybody was real you know, 357 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.000 the real estate, everybody's leaving the city and the real 358 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:22.799 estate market was going crazy, there were I needed to 359 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:25.920 I was looking for a new place to live from 360 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:28.960 the place that I was currently living in and there 361 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:32.240 was there was nothing for rent. Everything was in airbnb 362 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.400 now or someone was working remote from their house or 363 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:40.640 something like that. And so a friend of mine came 364 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.599 in the shop and you know, we were just talking. 365 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.720 I was like, well, I'm just you know whatever, I'm 366 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:50.680 trying to find a place to live currently. And he said, oh, 367 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.680 this buddy of mine just moved out of this spot 368 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.279 down in Roscow And I came down and looked at 369 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:05.480 it and yeah, yes, it's perfect, done deal. And it 370 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.440 just so happened to be directly across the street from 371 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:13.160 the deady house. So I continue to work at the 372 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:18.160 other shop for another year after that, but then you know, 373 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.079 kind of slowly, slowly, just kind of building talking more 374 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:27.640 and more with with Joe Fox, who owns the shop now, 375 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:32.880 is a great grandson of Walt Eddy, and it kind 376 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.519 of just came up in conversation that if I wanted 377 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.160 to make a move, I could, so I did. 378 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:44.880 Nice. Yeah, so it's actually still owned by the by 379 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:45.799 the original. 380 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:50.440 Family, Yeah, it is. It's all current owners are Joe 381 00:24:50.559 --> 00:25:03.319 Fox and Kelly Booked. They are uh engauged and Joe. Yeah, 382 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:08.000 Joe is the grandson of Mary, great grandson of Walt 383 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:11.279 and Winnie who were the original original owners of the shop. Yeah, 384 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:17.880 so ninety seven years and the family owned at this point, 385 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:27.039 which is pretty crazy all things considered, especially now. Yeah, yeah, 386 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:27.759 that's it. 387 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:31.720 That's just amazing to think about. It is and it's 388 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:34.559 it's funny, probably even more so in the. 389 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.039 Trout World, right, Yeah, I mean the the fly fishing 390 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:47.079 for Trout World has really moved so online, big box online. 391 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:54.720 You know, Joe had to work really hard with another 392 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.119 employee at the time, Bran, to really modernize the shop 393 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:01.039 and get it to a point where it could it 394 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:06.720 could compete with you know what's out there now everything 395 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.359 is so online centric. You know, you have to really 396 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.640 be able to manage your inventory well to be able 397 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.359 to keep up with the other shops that are out there. 398 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:24.519 So obviously huge change from where everything started with, you know, Walt, 399 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.720 Winnie and Harry Darby just tying flies kind of order 400 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:33.880 based back in the thirties Ornee nineteen twenty eight actually, 401 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.400