WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:02.319 This is part one of a two part series with 2 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:06.480 Thomas Allen. In this one, we're talking about forward facing 3 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:12.039 sonar and cellular cameras in the field. Hey, I'm kJ 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.439 dedicated lifelong hunter here. If you've got an interest in 5 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.359 all things hunting, you're in the right spot. Whether chasing 6 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.960 quill across the plains of Oklahoma or in pursuit of 7 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.839 belk in the back country of British Columbia, you'll always 8 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:30.079 find me on the hunt. All right, everybody, welcome in 9 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.439 to another gun talk hunt brought to you by Ruger, 10 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:37.479 Timny Triggers, Range Ready Studios, Silencer, Central Vortex, Savage Frankie 11 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.719 and rcbs Man. Rcbs Man. I've been doing it wrapped 12 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:49.320 una loading these these days, shooting matches and stuff. But 13 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:52.880 on the other line and staring at your beautiful faces 14 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:58.200 is mister Thomas Allen. Uh Man, dude, how you been 15 00:00:58.479 --> 00:00:59.039 a long time? 16 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.679 No here? Yeah, it's been a while. I think we 17 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:03.799 talked the spring, sometime around Turkey season. 18 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:06.439 But the only time I hear from Thomas Allen is 19 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.079 when he he or his son, or his daughter or 20 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:12.400 his wife are killing stuff in the woods. 21 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:14.920 Well, we should do a little better. I mean, it 22 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:20.439 doesn't have to be that long in between things. But yeah, yeah, 23 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.200 we've been fishing a lot. I think we're probably about 24 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.959 wrapped up with that. I might have a few more 25 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.840 in Fishermen segments to film this fall yet, but for 26 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.040 the most part, I think we're down to just chasing 27 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:33.920 fall time muskies, which is really more of a hunt 28 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:34.920 if you want to get down to it. 29 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:38.079 No, it's not a hunt. When I went, they said 30 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:40.920 fish of a one in ten thousand cast. 31 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:42.079 Yeah, that's about right. 32 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.840 I kid you not. I went out one day and 33 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:44.959 I caught five of them. 34 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.519 Yeah, it doesn't always work like that, Kevin, You must 35 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:53.840 have had a pretty good guide. Guide, I was hand fishing. Okay, 36 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.000 it sounds like it's more to this story that make 37 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.920 me doubt your tenacity. Must know I had a tremendous guide. 38 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:03.280 I had a tremendous guy. Oh well, you should come 39 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:05.079 up here. I mean you probably need a break from 40 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.760 that South Louisiana heat. I mean, the fish is just 41 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.520 starting to get good. We've got water temps in the 42 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.759 mid to low fifties and the trees are in full colors. 43 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.479 It's my favorite time of year. It is wonderful, but 44 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:18.280 it goes too quick. 45 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.039 Don't get me started, man, because like, what's going to 46 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:24.960 happen for you? Since you're bragging it up. Now, you're 47 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.680 going to get a massive cold front really quickly, and 48 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.000 then you're just everything's gonna be shut off and then 49 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:32.599 you're going to be fishing in ice houses. That's what's 50 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:33.080 going to happen. 51 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:36.280 Well, that's coming, that's inevitable. But truth be told, we 52 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.400 had that cold front. We're coming out of it now. 53 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.439 It's actually going to be in the seventies on Friday, 54 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.759 which kind of sucks. When you get that water temperature 55 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.240 to drop and to a certain level, the lakes turnover 56 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.199 and then the fish recover from that and they go 57 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:51.039 on a binge. And so we're right on that edge 58 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.680 where turnover is ending. Most of the lakes have turned 59 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:55.560 or are just about done turning, and now it's gonna 60 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:58.159 get really good. So sometimes it's hard to pick between 61 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.599 deer hunting and musky but. 62 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.039 Uh, I just don't. I mean, I know you're a 63 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:06.719 big time musky fisherman, but man, I just cannot. I 64 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.039 don't think I could put down the bow or gun 65 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.719 and go pick up a rod and go run figure eights. 66 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:14.360 Yeah, well you need to come do this. Like I 67 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.319 know we've talked about this and we probably should put 68 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.400 this on our list because here's the thing. You can 69 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:20.719 just get here and it's super inexpensive. I know we've 70 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:22.520 talked about like these hunts we want to do all 71 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.719 the time, and we're like once every two or three 72 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:27.360 years we want to up that a little bit. You 73 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:29.680 come up here for a week of musky fishing. I'll 74 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.000 come down there, we'll go to Venice. I don't see 75 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:32.759 what the problem is. 76 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:35.240 There is no problem with that. I'm good with that. 77 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:37.800 I'll do that. Yeah, we can do for sure do that. 78 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:39.400 You know, just know that. 79 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:43.840 People understand something when when we're talking musky fishing. It's 80 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.719 pretty good throughout the season, and generally in the North, 81 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.080 it starts in June, right first weekend in June, and 82 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.319 you get to fall and it's magical. It's cold. Yeah, 83 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.479 a lot of times we're using big suckers, like anything 84 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.439 from a fourteen to twenty and sucker, so a two 85 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:01.159 or three pound fish and they'll they'll chase baits. It's 86 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.039 a magical time of the year if you can handle 87 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.560 the cold. And I know that your skinny ass could 88 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:07.199 probably deal with it. If you put on a couple 89 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:08.360 extra layers. 90 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:10.240 I would have to put it. I don't. I wouldn't 91 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.280 have to put on as many layers anymore. 92 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.959 Well, I just keep I keep a built in layer 93 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:17.839 of insulation rolling. 94 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.319 So that's what I'm I'm working towards that. That's what 95 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:26.240 I'm doing. You'll get there no last time. So it's 96 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.920 funny because the last time I did hear from you, 97 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.879 you had said and I got to pull this message 98 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:36.000 up because it was actually really funny. Oh buddy, Oh 99 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.759 my gosh. So you were about to go on a rant. 100 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:45.560 So you said, here's your podcast topic, he says, linking 101 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:50.480 the debate between cell cams and forward facing sonar and 102 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.959 how it's made. I can't read the next sord out 103 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:54.839 of the boomers. 104 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:59.360 Oh goodness, Yeah, I did say that. 105 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.079 So you've said that, how do you want to approach this? 106 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:05.920 All right, Well, let's give a quick background. I'll do 107 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:09.439 my best to keep it short of the raging forward 108 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:13.639 facing sonar debate in the fishing world. So as technology advances, 109 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.639 we are going to continue to reach new levels that 110 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:19.680 we previously thought were unattainable. I think that's pre that's 111 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:21.639 an equalization, right, That's a fact. No one's going to 112 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.680 argue that that's with everything cell phones and computers and whatever. 113 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.920 So in phishing, forward facing sonar as of late has 114 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.480 been a hot topic because it's more or less paved 115 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.639 a quicker route or shorten the learning curve for younger anglers. 116 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.199 And let me preface this by saying, this is the 117 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.759 debate I can. I can give you some honest answers, 118 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.000 and Kevin, if I'm anything, I'm very willing to share 119 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.360 my opinion. In fact, I can't hide it sometimes. So 120 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.120 the debate has been from the older generation that they're 121 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.399 grumpy with the younger generation because they're beating them, and 122 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.439 they're blaming the forward facing sonar on creating an easier 123 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.720 path into the upper echelon of professional fishing. And as 124 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.879 a result, that's kind of trickled down into the regional 125 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:10.279 and even community level tournaments where here in Brainerd, Minnesota, 126 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.079 we have got tournament leagues that are banning forward facing 127 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.759 sonar because of what they're seeing at the top levels. 128 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.480 And I say this a little tongue in cheeks. So 129 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:21.639 if any of my fishing friends are listening, and you're like, 130 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.560 he's talking about me, I'm not. I am talking in 131 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.360 general about the sport and about what's going on and 132 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.160 what's happening inside the sport. Kevin is there are a 133 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:36.639 lot of older anglers that are either unwilling or unable 134 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.759 to adapt with the technology, and that happens. I think 135 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:42.600 you and I are going to reach a point where 136 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.279 we're tired of updating our phones, where we're tired of 137 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.759 trying to keep up on technology. We might just quit 138 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.839 keeping up on technology. So I think it's a natural progression. 139 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.560 But as a result, relevancy is starting to wane, and 140 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:56.680 some of these anglers are nearing the end of their 141 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.839 careers and they're blaming the technology. But the funny side 142 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:07.680 of this, Kevin, is myself, you and your fishing industry. Days. Uh, 143 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:12.240 we all work collectively to innovate and push new products 144 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.199 on the market that absolutely were created to shorten that 145 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.319 learning curve. And now that that's caught up with everybody, 146 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:24.120 there's some grumpy people out there, and I just I'm 147 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:24.920 sick of it. It's it. 148 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.800 I see it, But I see the side that you're 149 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:31.439 on and I'm in total agreement. Like there's a time 150 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.079 when we are going to be phased out and we're 151 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.920 going to be the old the old guys there going 152 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:39.399 like all these youngsters. Yeah, and I saw this coming 153 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:40.480 years ago. 154 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.319 I saw it coming too, years. 155 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:47.959 Ago, because what's happening is is, you know, kids are kids, 156 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.079 My kids, your kids, like they are all growing up 157 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.120 in a technology driven world, whereas you you have to 158 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:56.319 adapt to it or you are going to die. 159 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.879 Adapt or die. I say that all the time. 160 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.639 Like, that's that's what it is. And you have to 161 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:04.040 call a spade a spade because you sit here and 162 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.959 you look at these young kids dominating some of these tournaments. 163 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.759 They've grown up with this technology, They've adapted their lives, 164 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:15.079 and their lives is looking at a screen, and you 165 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.720 cannot hold it against them for utilizing the tools that 166 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:20.839 are going to make them successful. 167 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.399 That we pave the way for myself and the generation 168 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.879 older than me. We all work collectively in the media 169 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:33.240 in the professional fishing scene to create to catch fish easier. Yes, 170 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:36.039 And the thing that one of the arguments that really 171 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.720 bothers me is I hate watching people watch screens and 172 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.840 it's all Ford facing Sonar's fault correction. There were complaints 173 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:47.519 ten twelve years ago when Edwin Evers was watching his 174 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:52.240 jig on his two D larent sonar and what was 175 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.879 he doing there? You know? And it's the same thing 176 00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:01.399 Minnesota tried to ban flashers back in the day. Flashers, right, really, Yeah, 177 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.519 And I think that we're going to see more of this. 178 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:07.320 We're going to see more of this technology banned because 179 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.519 the loudest group is the largest group who can't keep 180 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:14.399 up with it. Yeah, and that's a strong word. And 181 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:18.919 I say this like seriously with love. Okay, the technology 182 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:24.000 is not ruining the sport whatsoever. In fact, until you've 183 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:27.559 gone out and used it, maybe mastered it. Okay, I 184 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.279 don't feel like you should have an opinion on it. 185 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:31.559 If you don't like it, you don't have to put 186 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:33.960 it on your boat. But if you're going to impress 187 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:38.519 upon your social media followers, your friends, your family, whatever, 188 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:42.399 that this technology is bad without having any real experience, 189 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:43.919 and I don't mean just like being able to turn 190 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:45.480 it on and look at it, I mean being able 191 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.080 to make it work. If you can't do that, you 192 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:49.240 got nothing to say. 193 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.159 Yeah, well, and well, what you are seeing in the 194 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:57.440 shooting community too, is a lot of the same. I 195 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:01.799 just got off shooting a match and what some of 196 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.919 these guys are doing with I mean, and a kestrel 197 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.440 is not a new tool. But for a guy like 198 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:13.320 me that grew up with Kentucky Windage, a kestrel is 199 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.840 like waving a magic wand over your gun and saying, okay, 200 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:20.440 hit the target, bam and you'll hit the target. And 201 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:22.840 so just like that. But they're utilizing the tools that 202 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.960 they're just adapting to the tools that were provided. Do 203 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.679 you not think that if ford facing sonar came out 204 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:35.279 when Rick Klan was in his heyday, or or KVD 205 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.639 or or I can. 206 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.679 Dude, they hated KVD when he came around. He was 207 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:41.600 the young punk kid that was beating everybody with a 208 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:43.559 crank bait and they said, a crank bait is no 209 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:44.559 way to catch a bass. 210 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.600 Yeah, and so you start looking at it. Do you 211 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.159 think if they had ford facing sonar back then, I mean, 212 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:54.639 when Ray Scott was starting out, do you not think 213 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:56.639 that they would have all been like, oh heck, yeah, 214 00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:57.879 this is the wave of the future. 215 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:01.759 Two points I want to make. First of all, this 216 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.840 summer I had a great time learning forward facing sonar. 217 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.080 Tommy and I spent we took a day a week 218 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.759 and went out with the spinning poles and the little 219 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:13.480 jig mintos and just got to the technology. And it 220 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.039 paid off for us a little bit, but most of 221 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.200 the time we were using it to position ourselves on structure. 222 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.080 It wasn't. The misconception is that you turn it on 223 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.480 and fish jump in your boat. It's just not the case. 224 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:29.000 It takes practice, it takes rigging that rigging correctly. It 225 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:31.080 takes understanding what you're looking at. There's a lot of 226 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.120 factors that go into Actually another word for that is 227 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.399 work that you have to put in to make it, 228 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.720 make it work and make it make sense. Well, I'll 229 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:41.799 give you one example. And I know we're supposed to 230 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:43.919 be talking shooting and hunting, but this is kind of fun. 231 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.000 This is I'm going to go ahead and say this, 232 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:47.559 like for all the guys that are like, get off 233 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.120 the fish and tuck. This all plays a role in 234 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.000 hunting too, because we're going to talk about the cell camera, 235 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.200 the cell cams and the trail cams that that we'll 236 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.039 bleed right into this, so don't worry. We're getting to that. 237 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:02.159 I'm laying out the ground, the foundation, the groundation. 238 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.720 Yeah, the groundation. 239 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.879 It's a new word, so went I knew we were 240 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:08.759 going to have a tournament this year. I fished up 241 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.240 a little side noted this is the first year since 242 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.799 I've had kids that I was able to go fish 243 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:16.559 by myself and go do a tournament series just for me. 244 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:19.159 When I brought it up to my wife, She's like, absolutely, 245 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:22.080 go do it. It's all close to home. Five derbies 246 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.039 a year, so it wasn't a huge commitment, but I 247 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:25.799 wanted to take it serious. So I went out and 248 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.480 practiced on a bunch of these lakes and spent a 249 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.720 lot of time, and really that combined with the effort 250 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.600 we'd put in to learn the technology, I put it 251 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.639 to work. We went to a particular lake in northern 252 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.320 Minnesota and Kevin I caught like two ounces shy at 253 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.679 twenty one pounds a small mouth bass. One of the 254 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:45.559 best days I've ever had on the water, and still 255 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.679 got seventh place, if that tells you anything about how 256 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.200 good the fishing was. But that entire tournament was a result, 257 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.639 and I was able to remain competitive if you consider 258 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:59.679 seventh competitive, by using ford facing sonar. At the end 259 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.639 of that tournament, a bunch of those guys complain that 260 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:05.320 they got beat by dudes using forward facing sonar adapt 261 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.320 or die. Ye, get on board with it. So that 262 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.080 point is you put in the work, they don't just 263 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.519 jump in your boat. The other thing that's going to 264 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:17.360 happen is we're you're the hunting industry is facing it 265 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:19.960 now with cell cameras. Is you're going to start hearing 266 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.919 the trickle down complaints that the loudest group is going 267 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:27.320 to catch the ear of a state senator or a 268 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:31.440 lake association or public land wildlife biologists or whatever, and 269 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.480 they're going to start saying, you know what, I think 270 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:35.960 I agree with that, even though I'm incapable of turning 271 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.320 on my cell phone. My opinion is cell cameras are 272 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.879 a bad thing, and they provide an unfair advantage. And 273 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.799 there are a couple states already and it's not new 274 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.080 that have banned the use of sell cameras. I don't 275 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:49.120 know if it's indefinitely or only on state ground, but. 276 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.759 I think it's like it's a state wide ban, I think, 277 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:55.960 which which to me makes absolutely zero sense. 278 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.240 I'd be an outlaw if I live there, because I'm 279 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.759 not get there, but we will get there. Yeah, anyway, 280 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.639 it just we've gotten to a point and and I 281 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:05.440 guess there was one one last thing I wanted to 282 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.879 say there And this kind of is a little bit 283 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:10.480 of a rebuttal to the young young guys, young kids 284 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:14.120 doing so well. This whole time we've been innovating and 285 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.440 promoting and talking about and educating the use of all 286 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.159 this electronics. There's also been high school bass fishing. There 287 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.840 has been college bass fishing. Could you, Kevin, could you 288 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.080 imagine the grades improvement that I might have had if 289 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.360 there was high school fishing improvement? 290 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.480 I would have been horrible. That had been way worse 291 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:31.799 for me. 292 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:33.679 Well, you had to have it great. You had to 293 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.039 have a GPA to participate in. 294 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:41.440 There. There is absolutely zero, zero, zero way I would 295 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.200 have made the grades. All right, Thomas Allen has frozen. 296 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.240 He looks magnetic. Huh, all right, you froze? Pick it up? 297 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:51.759 How about no? 298 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.399 Yeah, there're you good? You're good? Now, sorry, you're good. 299 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:58.399 There's a there's a thing that happens where you kind 300 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.399 of have to pay your dues and and I think 301 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.879 that that's respectable from the older generations. But the solution, 302 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.159 I think, to an extent, would be if the younger 303 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.840 generation were to tip their hat more to the older 304 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.360 generations for the groundwork that they set out that they're 305 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.559 walking on. And I think that's really where the headache 306 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:17.039 comes from. 307 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.360 I don't, man, I kind of disagree with you. I 308 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:22.240 don't think that's where the headache comes from. I think 309 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.519 it's just these guys who are used to owning this 310 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.519 space and they said they're pissing on this post saying well, 311 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:32.440 this was my spot, Now why are you doing so good? 312 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:37.080 And they're unwilling to accept change that's on them. That's 313 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.600 not like, uh man, for those young kids out there, 314 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.080 they're on these bass teams or man, I wish they 315 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.120 had hunting teams. Now, that would be awesome. 316 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.000 Well, that would be a can of worms we don't 317 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:47.440 want to open. 318 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.519 I think, Yeah, like coyote hunting teams. Let's do that. 319 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.960 Scroll hunting teams. You ever done scroll dirty? Yeah? 320 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.159 But anyways, like, go out and get it. If that's 321 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.759 what you want to do with your life and you 322 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.960 believe you can make a living of a becoming a 323 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.960 bass angler or a professional fisherman, go for it. And 324 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.559 if you take some old guy spot who's too agit 325 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:17.679 aggravated or just yeah, to change and to utilize the 326 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.960 technology that's out there. I'm sorry, it's just not your time. 327 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.240 It's a it's an unforgiving sport. And uh, it's the 328 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.159 trail to the Classic is littered with broken hearts, and 329 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.000 we you and I both know a lot of the stories. 330 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:36.159 Oh yeah, I personally, I do not dislike watching people 331 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.240 catch big bass while looking at their screen. I enjoy that, 332 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:43.000 and based on numbers that I've been privy to, so 333 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:46.919 does the bulk of the viewership. So we can go 334 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.320 down the road and talk in depth that for hours 335 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.759 and I've tried, uh, and I think we could. But 336 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:57.519 the bottom line is is technology. Technology is alienating to 337 00:16:57.559 --> 00:16:59.720 an extent. Where you're right, you have the I don't 338 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:01.799 remember what term you use, but where you have the 339 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.519 windage and everything built into your scope than kestrel, Yeah, yeah, 340 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:11.240 and I have a I think it's a Buris eliminator 341 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.440 eliminator three. Yeah, I really like it, Kevin. But here's 342 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.720 the comparison I'll make that scope and Ford facing sonar 343 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.319 have not in any way, shape or form diminished the 344 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:22.000 experience for me. 345 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.240 No, it's enhanced it if anything. So this weekend is 346 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.240 a opener of youth. It's opener of youth weekend in Oklahoma. Now, 347 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.240 my oldest son I went, you know what, I went 348 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:37.240 the opposite way. I said, you know what, you need 349 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:40.359 to embrace the technology. And I got him a Buris's 350 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.720 Eliminator scope and or no, I got him no, the 351 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.960 Veracity pH it's got the heads up display. And so 352 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.839 now what you're talking about is a is a young 353 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.880 kid who sees the technology side of hunting and now 354 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.200 all of a sudden, like he's kind of hooked in 355 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:02.279 there looking, he's going, holy crap, this is actually really cool. Late, 356 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:05.000 so I turn this dial and I'll change the numbers 357 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.480 in my scope. And all you gotta do is point yes, 358 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:09.759 that's all you have to do. It's that easy. 359 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:16.640 There's a point where now that said, I still think 360 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.599 if you don't have a quality foundation underneath the technology, 361 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.079 underneath your skill, if you don't understand how to make 362 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:25.720 a bass eat, or you don't know how to find 363 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.799 white tailed, none of it matters. So you do need 364 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.039 to have a foundation. And you know you as a father, 365 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.119 you're instilling those foundational values in your kids for hunting. 366 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.440 I did the same with mine and fishing. The same 367 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.119 Tommy and I learned how to fish together without ford 368 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.200 facing sonar, began to factor it in and instead of 369 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.200 looking at that is the only thing we have to 370 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.759 use to succeed. It's now a tool in our satchel 371 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.759 or another arrow in the quiver, if you will. And 372 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:54.640 same with cell cameras, the same with the electronic scopes. 373 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.759 It doesn't If you make a problem out of it, 374 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.480 then don't use it. Like that's a beauty, beautiful thing 375 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.599 about Americas. Don't use it. If you don't want it, 376 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.720 then you can still be successful without it. It's just 377 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:09.599 when you start getting other people's ideals based on their 378 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.359 lack of willingness to adapt, and that's forced upon you. 379 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.799 That's where I have a problem. 380 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.559 Yeah, I agree, all right, not great. Right, Well, we're 381 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.960 going to jump back into this conversation on more of 382 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:25.720 the hunting side right after a word from these wonderful sponsors. 383 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:31.200 Unmatched precision with the Ruger American Gentoo. In the heart 384 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.960 of the Wilderness, Precision matters, Ruger introduces the American Gen 385 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:38.799 two rifle design for hunters who demand excellence. 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