Speaker 1: This is part one of a two part series with
Speaker 1: Thomas Allen. In this one, we're talking about forward facing
Speaker 1: sonar and cellular cameras in the field. Hey, I'm kJ
Speaker 1: dedicated lifelong hunter here. If you've got an interest in
Speaker 1: all things hunting, you're in the right spot. Whether chasing
Speaker 1: quill across the plains of Oklahoma or in pursuit of
Speaker 1: belk in the back country of British Columbia, you'll always
Speaker 1: find me on the hunt. All right, everybody, welcome in
Speaker 1: to another gun talk hunt brought to you by Ruger,
Speaker 1: Timny Triggers, Range Ready Studios, Silencer, Central Vortex, Savage Frankie
Speaker 1: and rcbs Man. Rcbs Man. I've been doing it wrapped
Speaker 1: una loading these these days, shooting matches and stuff. But
Speaker 1: on the other line and staring at your beautiful faces
Speaker 1: is mister Thomas Allen. Uh Man, dude, how you been
Speaker 1: a long time?
Speaker 2: No here? Yeah, it's been a while. I think we
Speaker 2: talked the spring, sometime around Turkey season.
Speaker 1: But the only time I hear from Thomas Allen is
Speaker 1: when he he or his son, or his daughter or
Speaker 1: his wife are killing stuff in the woods.
Speaker 2: Well, we should do a little better. I mean, it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be that long in between things. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we've been fishing a lot. I think we're probably about
Speaker 2: wrapped up with that. I might have a few more
Speaker 2: in Fishermen segments to film this fall yet, but for
Speaker 2: the most part, I think we're down to just chasing
Speaker 2: fall time muskies, which is really more of a hunt
Speaker 2: if you want to get down to it.
Speaker 1: No, it's not a hunt. When I went, they said
Speaker 1: fish of a one in ten thousand cast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about right.
Speaker 1: I kid you not. I went out one day and
Speaker 1: I caught five of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't always work like that, Kevin, You must
Speaker 2: have had a pretty good guide. Guide, I was hand fishing. Okay,
Speaker 2: it sounds like it's more to this story that make
Speaker 2: me doubt your tenacity. Must know I had a tremendous guide.
Speaker 2: I had a tremendous guy. Oh well, you should come
Speaker 2: up here. I mean you probably need a break from
Speaker 2: that South Louisiana heat. I mean, the fish is just
Speaker 2: starting to get good. We've got water temps in the
Speaker 2: mid to low fifties and the trees are in full colors.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite time of year. It is wonderful, but
Speaker 2: it goes too quick.
Speaker 1: Don't get me started, man, because like, what's going to
Speaker 1: happen for you? Since you're bragging it up. Now, you're
Speaker 1: going to get a massive cold front really quickly, and
Speaker 1: then you're just everything's gonna be shut off and then
Speaker 1: you're going to be fishing in ice houses. That's what's
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 2: Well, that's coming, that's inevitable. But truth be told, we
Speaker 2: had that cold front. We're coming out of it now.
Speaker 2: It's actually going to be in the seventies on Friday,
Speaker 2: which kind of sucks. When you get that water temperature
Speaker 2: to drop and to a certain level, the lakes turnover
Speaker 2: and then the fish recover from that and they go
Speaker 2: on a binge. And so we're right on that edge
Speaker 2: where turnover is ending. Most of the lakes have turned
Speaker 2: or are just about done turning, and now it's gonna
Speaker 2: get really good. So sometimes it's hard to pick between
Speaker 2: deer hunting and musky but.
Speaker 1: Uh, I just don't. I mean, I know you're a
Speaker 1: big time musky fisherman, but man, I just cannot. I
Speaker 1: don't think I could put down the bow or gun
Speaker 1: and go pick up a rod and go run figure eights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you need to come do this. Like I
Speaker 2: know we've talked about this and we probably should put
Speaker 2: this on our list because here's the thing. You can
Speaker 2: just get here and it's super inexpensive. I know we've
Speaker 2: talked about like these hunts we want to do all
Speaker 2: the time, and we're like once every two or three
Speaker 2: years we want to up that a little bit. You
Speaker 2: come up here for a week of musky fishing. I'll
Speaker 2: come down there, we'll go to Venice. I don't see
Speaker 2: what the problem is.
Speaker 1: There is no problem with that. I'm good with that.
Speaker 1: I'll do that. Yeah, we can do for sure do that.
Speaker 1: You know, just know that.
Speaker 2: People understand something when when we're talking musky fishing. It's
Speaker 2: pretty good throughout the season, and generally in the North,
Speaker 2: it starts in June, right first weekend in June, and
Speaker 2: you get to fall and it's magical. It's cold. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of times we're using big suckers, like anything
Speaker 2: from a fourteen to twenty and sucker, so a two
Speaker 2: or three pound fish and they'll they'll chase baits. It's
Speaker 2: a magical time of the year if you can handle
Speaker 2: the cold. And I know that your skinny ass could
Speaker 2: probably deal with it. If you put on a couple
Speaker 2: extra layers.
Speaker 1: I would have to put it. I don't. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have to put on as many layers anymore.
Speaker 2: Well, I just keep I keep a built in layer
Speaker 2: of insulation rolling.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm I'm working towards that. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. You'll get there no last time. So it's
Speaker 1: funny because the last time I did hear from you,
Speaker 1: you had said and I got to pull this message
Speaker 1: up because it was actually really funny. Oh buddy, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh. So you were about to go on a rant.
Speaker 1: So you said, here's your podcast topic, he says, linking
Speaker 1: the debate between cell cams and forward facing sonar and
Speaker 1: how it's made. I can't read the next sord out
Speaker 1: of the boomers.
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, Yeah, I did say that.
Speaker 1: So you've said that, how do you want to approach this?
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's give a quick background. I'll do
Speaker 2: my best to keep it short of the raging forward
Speaker 2: facing sonar debate in the fishing world. So as technology advances,
Speaker 2: we are going to continue to reach new levels that
Speaker 2: we previously thought were unattainable. I think that's pre that's
Speaker 2: an equalization, right, That's a fact. No one's going to
Speaker 2: argue that that's with everything cell phones and computers and whatever.
Speaker 2: So in phishing, forward facing sonar as of late has
Speaker 2: been a hot topic because it's more or less paved
Speaker 2: a quicker route or shorten the learning curve for younger anglers.
Speaker 2: And let me preface this by saying, this is the
Speaker 2: debate I can. I can give you some honest answers,
Speaker 2: and Kevin, if I'm anything, I'm very willing to share
Speaker 2: my opinion. In fact, I can't hide it sometimes. So
Speaker 2: the debate has been from the older generation that they're
Speaker 2: grumpy with the younger generation because they're beating them, and
Speaker 2: they're blaming the forward facing sonar on creating an easier
Speaker 2: path into the upper echelon of professional fishing. And as
Speaker 2: a result, that's kind of trickled down into the regional
Speaker 2: and even community level tournaments where here in Brainerd, Minnesota,
Speaker 2: we have got tournament leagues that are banning forward facing
Speaker 2: sonar because of what they're seeing at the top levels.
Speaker 2: And I say this a little tongue in cheeks. So
Speaker 2: if any of my fishing friends are listening, and you're like,
Speaker 2: he's talking about me, I'm not. I am talking in
Speaker 2: general about the sport and about what's going on and
Speaker 2: what's happening inside the sport. Kevin is there are a
Speaker 2: lot of older anglers that are either unwilling or unable
Speaker 2: to adapt with the technology, and that happens. I think
Speaker 2: you and I are going to reach a point where
Speaker 2: we're tired of updating our phones, where we're tired of
Speaker 2: trying to keep up on technology. We might just quit
Speaker 2: keeping up on technology. So I think it's a natural progression.
Speaker 2: But as a result, relevancy is starting to wane, and
Speaker 2: some of these anglers are nearing the end of their
Speaker 2: careers and they're blaming the technology. But the funny side
Speaker 2: of this, Kevin, is myself, you and your fishing industry. Days. Uh,
Speaker 2: we all work collectively to innovate and push new products
Speaker 2: on the market that absolutely were created to shorten that
Speaker 2: learning curve. And now that that's caught up with everybody,
Speaker 2: there's some grumpy people out there, and I just I'm
Speaker 2: sick of it. It's it.
Speaker 1: I see it, But I see the side that you're
Speaker 1: on and I'm in total agreement. Like there's a time
Speaker 1: when we are going to be phased out and we're
Speaker 1: going to be the old the old guys there going
Speaker 1: like all these youngsters. Yeah, and I saw this coming
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 2: I saw it coming too, years.
Speaker 1: Ago, because what's happening is is, you know, kids are kids,
Speaker 1: My kids, your kids, like they are all growing up
Speaker 1: in a technology driven world, whereas you you have to
Speaker 1: adapt to it or you are going to die.
Speaker 2: Adapt or die. I say that all the time.
Speaker 1: Like, that's that's what it is. And you have to
Speaker 1: call a spade a spade because you sit here and
Speaker 1: you look at these young kids dominating some of these tournaments.
Speaker 1: They've grown up with this technology, They've adapted their lives,
Speaker 1: and their lives is looking at a screen, and you
Speaker 1: cannot hold it against them for utilizing the tools that
Speaker 1: are going to make them successful.
Speaker 2: That we pave the way for myself and the generation
Speaker 2: older than me. We all work collectively in the media
Speaker 2: in the professional fishing scene to create to catch fish easier. Yes,
Speaker 2: And the thing that one of the arguments that really
Speaker 2: bothers me is I hate watching people watch screens and
Speaker 2: it's all Ford facing Sonar's fault correction. There were complaints
Speaker 2: ten twelve years ago when Edwin Evers was watching his
Speaker 2: jig on his two D larent sonar and what was
Speaker 2: he doing there? You know? And it's the same thing
Speaker 2: Minnesota tried to ban flashers back in the day. Flashers, right, really, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think that we're going to see more of this.
Speaker 2: We're going to see more of this technology banned because
Speaker 2: the loudest group is the largest group who can't keep
Speaker 2: up with it. Yeah, and that's a strong word. And
Speaker 2: I say this like seriously with love. Okay, the technology
Speaker 2: is not ruining the sport whatsoever. In fact, until you've
Speaker 2: gone out and used it, maybe mastered it. Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't feel like you should have an opinion on it.
Speaker 2: If you don't like it, you don't have to put
Speaker 2: it on your boat. But if you're going to impress
Speaker 2: upon your social media followers, your friends, your family, whatever,
Speaker 2: that this technology is bad without having any real experience,
Speaker 2: and I don't mean just like being able to turn
Speaker 2: it on and look at it, I mean being able
Speaker 2: to make it work. If you can't do that, you
Speaker 2: got nothing to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and well, what you are seeing in the
Speaker 1: shooting community too, is a lot of the same. I
Speaker 1: just got off shooting a match and what some of
Speaker 1: these guys are doing with I mean, and a kestrel
Speaker 1: is not a new tool. But for a guy like
Speaker 1: me that grew up with Kentucky Windage, a kestrel is
Speaker 1: like waving a magic wand over your gun and saying, okay,
Speaker 1: hit the target, bam and you'll hit the target. And
Speaker 1: so just like that. But they're utilizing the tools that
Speaker 1: they're just adapting to the tools that were provided. Do
Speaker 1: you not think that if ford facing sonar came out
Speaker 1: when Rick Klan was in his heyday, or or KVD
Speaker 1: or or I can.
Speaker 2: Dude, they hated KVD when he came around. He was
Speaker 2: the young punk kid that was beating everybody with a
Speaker 2: crank bait and they said, a crank bait is no
Speaker 2: way to catch a bass.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you start looking at it. Do you
Speaker 1: think if they had ford facing sonar back then, I mean,
Speaker 1: when Ray Scott was starting out, do you not think
Speaker 1: that they would have all been like, oh heck, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the wave of the future.
Speaker 2: Two points I want to make. First of all, this
Speaker 2: summer I had a great time learning forward facing sonar.
Speaker 2: Tommy and I spent we took a day a week
Speaker 2: and went out with the spinning poles and the little
Speaker 2: jig mintos and just got to the technology. And it
Speaker 2: paid off for us a little bit, but most of
Speaker 2: the time we were using it to position ourselves on structure.
Speaker 2: It wasn't. The misconception is that you turn it on
Speaker 2: and fish jump in your boat. It's just not the case.
Speaker 2: It takes practice, it takes rigging that rigging correctly. It
Speaker 2: takes understanding what you're looking at. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: factors that go into Actually another word for that is
Speaker 2: work that you have to put in to make it,
Speaker 2: make it work and make it make sense. Well, I'll
Speaker 2: give you one example. And I know we're supposed to
Speaker 2: be talking shooting and hunting, but this is kind of fun.
Speaker 1: This is I'm going to go ahead and say this,
Speaker 1: like for all the guys that are like, get off
Speaker 1: the fish and tuck. This all plays a role in
Speaker 1: hunting too, because we're going to talk about the cell camera,
Speaker 1: the cell cams and the trail cams that that we'll
Speaker 1: bleed right into this, so don't worry. We're getting to that.
Speaker 2: I'm laying out the ground, the foundation, the groundation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the groundation.
Speaker 2: It's a new word, so went I knew we were
Speaker 2: going to have a tournament this year. I fished up
Speaker 2: a little side noted this is the first year since
Speaker 2: I've had kids that I was able to go fish
Speaker 2: by myself and go do a tournament series just for me.
Speaker 2: When I brought it up to my wife, She's like, absolutely,
Speaker 2: go do it. It's all close to home. Five derbies
Speaker 2: a year, so it wasn't a huge commitment, but I
Speaker 2: wanted to take it serious. So I went out and
Speaker 2: practiced on a bunch of these lakes and spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time, and really that combined with the effort
Speaker 2: we'd put in to learn the technology, I put it
Speaker 2: to work. We went to a particular lake in northern
Speaker 2: Minnesota and Kevin I caught like two ounces shy at
Speaker 2: twenty one pounds a small mouth bass. One of the
Speaker 2: best days I've ever had on the water, and still
Speaker 2: got seventh place, if that tells you anything about how
Speaker 2: good the fishing was. But that entire tournament was a result,
Speaker 2: and I was able to remain competitive if you consider
Speaker 2: seventh competitive, by using ford facing sonar. At the end
Speaker 2: of that tournament, a bunch of those guys complain that
Speaker 2: they got beat by dudes using forward facing sonar adapt
Speaker 2: or die. Ye, get on board with it. So that
Speaker 2: point is you put in the work, they don't just
Speaker 2: jump in your boat. The other thing that's going to
Speaker 2: happen is we're you're the hunting industry is facing it
Speaker 2: now with cell cameras. Is you're going to start hearing
Speaker 2: the trickle down complaints that the loudest group is going
Speaker 2: to catch the ear of a state senator or a
Speaker 2: lake association or public land wildlife biologists or whatever, and
Speaker 2: they're going to start saying, you know what, I think
Speaker 2: I agree with that, even though I'm incapable of turning
Speaker 2: on my cell phone. My opinion is cell cameras are
Speaker 2: a bad thing, and they provide an unfair advantage. And
Speaker 2: there are a couple states already and it's not new
Speaker 2: that have banned the use of sell cameras. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's indefinitely or only on state ground, but.
Speaker 1: I think it's like it's a state wide ban, I think,
Speaker 1: which which to me makes absolutely zero sense.
Speaker 2: I'd be an outlaw if I live there, because I'm
Speaker 2: not get there, but we will get there. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: it just we've gotten to a point and and I
Speaker 2: guess there was one one last thing I wanted to
Speaker 2: say there And this kind of is a little bit
Speaker 2: of a rebuttal to the young young guys, young kids
Speaker 2: doing so well. This whole time we've been innovating and
Speaker 2: promoting and talking about and educating the use of all
Speaker 2: this electronics. There's also been high school bass fishing. There
Speaker 2: has been college bass fishing. Could you, Kevin, could you
Speaker 2: imagine the grades improvement that I might have had if
Speaker 2: there was high school fishing improvement?
Speaker 1: I would have been horrible. That had been way worse
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Well, you had to have it great. You had to
Speaker 2: have a GPA to participate in.
Speaker 1: There. There is absolutely zero, zero, zero way I would
Speaker 1: have made the grades. All right, Thomas Allen has frozen.
Speaker 1: He looks magnetic. Huh, all right, you froze? Pick it up?
Speaker 2: How about no?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there're you good? You're good? Now, sorry, you're good.
Speaker 2: There's a there's a thing that happens where you kind
Speaker 2: of have to pay your dues and and I think
Speaker 2: that that's respectable from the older generations. But the solution,
Speaker 2: I think, to an extent, would be if the younger
Speaker 2: generation were to tip their hat more to the older
Speaker 2: generations for the groundwork that they set out that they're
Speaker 2: walking on. And I think that's really where the headache
Speaker 2: comes from.
Speaker 1: I don't, man, I kind of disagree with you. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's where the headache comes from. I think
Speaker 1: it's just these guys who are used to owning this
Speaker 1: space and they said they're pissing on this post saying well,
Speaker 1: this was my spot, Now why are you doing so good?
Speaker 1: And they're unwilling to accept change that's on them. That's
Speaker 1: not like, uh man, for those young kids out there,
Speaker 1: they're on these bass teams or man, I wish they
Speaker 1: had hunting teams. Now, that would be awesome.
Speaker 2: Well, that would be a can of worms we don't
Speaker 2: want to open.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, like coyote hunting teams. Let's do that.
Speaker 2: Scroll hunting teams. You ever done scroll dirty? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But anyways, like, go out and get it. If that's
Speaker 1: what you want to do with your life and you
Speaker 1: believe you can make a living of a becoming a
Speaker 1: bass angler or a professional fisherman, go for it. And
Speaker 1: if you take some old guy spot who's too agit
Speaker 1: aggravated or just yeah, to change and to utilize the
Speaker 1: technology that's out there. I'm sorry, it's just not your time.
Speaker 2: It's a it's an unforgiving sport. And uh, it's the
Speaker 2: trail to the Classic is littered with broken hearts, and
Speaker 2: we you and I both know a lot of the stories.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I personally, I do not dislike watching people
Speaker 2: catch big bass while looking at their screen. I enjoy that,
Speaker 2: and based on numbers that I've been privy to, so
Speaker 2: does the bulk of the viewership. So we can go
Speaker 2: down the road and talk in depth that for hours
Speaker 2: and I've tried, uh, and I think we could. But
Speaker 2: the bottom line is is technology. Technology is alienating to
Speaker 2: an extent. Where you're right, you have the I don't
Speaker 2: remember what term you use, but where you have the
Speaker 2: windage and everything built into your scope than kestrel, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I have a I think it's a Buris eliminator
Speaker 2: eliminator three. Yeah, I really like it, Kevin. But here's
Speaker 2: the comparison I'll make that scope and Ford facing sonar
Speaker 2: have not in any way, shape or form diminished the
Speaker 2: experience for me.
Speaker 1: No, it's enhanced it if anything. So this weekend is
Speaker 1: a opener of youth. It's opener of youth weekend in Oklahoma. Now,
Speaker 1: my oldest son I went, you know what, I went
Speaker 1: the opposite way. I said, you know what, you need
Speaker 1: to embrace the technology. And I got him a Buris's
Speaker 1: Eliminator scope and or no, I got him no, the
Speaker 1: Veracity pH it's got the heads up display. And so
Speaker 1: now what you're talking about is a is a young
Speaker 1: kid who sees the technology side of hunting and now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like he's kind of hooked in
Speaker 1: there looking, he's going, holy crap, this is actually really cool. Late,
Speaker 1: so I turn this dial and I'll change the numbers
Speaker 1: in my scope. And all you gotta do is point yes,
Speaker 1: that's all you have to do. It's that easy.
Speaker 2: There's a point where now that said, I still think
Speaker 2: if you don't have a quality foundation underneath the technology,
Speaker 2: underneath your skill, if you don't understand how to make
Speaker 2: a bass eat, or you don't know how to find
Speaker 2: white tailed, none of it matters. So you do need
Speaker 2: to have a foundation. And you know you as a father,
Speaker 2: you're instilling those foundational values in your kids for hunting.
Speaker 2: I did the same with mine and fishing. The same
Speaker 2: Tommy and I learned how to fish together without ford
Speaker 2: facing sonar, began to factor it in and instead of
Speaker 2: looking at that is the only thing we have to
Speaker 2: use to succeed. It's now a tool in our satchel
Speaker 2: or another arrow in the quiver, if you will. And
Speaker 2: same with cell cameras, the same with the electronic scopes.
Speaker 2: It doesn't If you make a problem out of it,
Speaker 2: then don't use it. Like that's a beauty, beautiful thing
Speaker 2: about Americas. Don't use it. If you don't want it,
Speaker 2: then you can still be successful without it. It's just
Speaker 2: when you start getting other people's ideals based on their
Speaker 2: lack of willingness to adapt, and that's forced upon you.
Speaker 2: That's where I have a problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, all right, not great. Right, Well, we're
Speaker 1: going to jump back into this conversation on more of
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Speaker 1: if you're gonna do that and you're gonna go state
Speaker 1: to state to start hunting, you need something to keep
Speaker 1: them secure. You know, I've got a topper on my truck,
Speaker 1: so you know I can leave that open, but there's
Speaker 1: just a pane of glass covering that.
Speaker 2: So what I like to do.
Speaker 1: Is a snap safe trunk safe two. You know, this
Speaker 1: is a large storage capacity for tools, firearms, equipment, documents,
Speaker 1: and much much more that you can lock away easy.
Speaker 1: You can tie it down, you can lock it in
Speaker 1: place and it won't leave your vehicle. So if you're
Speaker 1: looking for a way to keep your firearms safe on
Speaker 1: the road, check out snapsafe dot com. All right, we're
Speaker 1: back with Thomas Allen of in Fisherman. He writes for
Speaker 1: Game and Fish. He kind of does a little bit
Speaker 1: of everything, and we're getting into this whole technology and
Speaker 1: hunting and how we've adapted, how just old guys just
Speaker 1: aren't willing to adapt. And I hate to say it,
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of listeners out there that
Speaker 1: rely on archaic, you know, practices to do their hunting,
Speaker 1: and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. To a certain extent,
Speaker 1: sometimes I am that guy, because let's we go back
Speaker 1: to the bursola and veracity pH that I put on
Speaker 1: my son's gun. So there's a level of me that
Speaker 1: wants to go, I don't trust it because it's electronic.
Speaker 1: But then there's the the I guess I would say,
Speaker 1: I'm middle aged, the middle of the road guy in
Speaker 1: me that says, but that's really cool, Like it's really
Speaker 1: cool that they're offering this, and to see it from
Speaker 1: a kid's perspective, it's really cool because he's like he's
Speaker 1: starting to see the marriage between technology, like what he
Speaker 1: likes to do in his off time and what he
Speaker 1: lives day to day. And so we go out and
Speaker 1: we actually we test it. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: you're talking about with the forward facing seminars, that like
Speaker 1: you got to go out and actually work it. Like
Speaker 1: you can't just say you're picking up a rod and
Speaker 1: you're going doing it, or you can't just put a
Speaker 1: cartridge in and just turn the don and automatically know
Speaker 1: it's there. There's a certain amount of learning curve that
Speaker 1: goes with this technology. And is that I mean, let's
Speaker 1: go the hunting side. Is that the best way to
Speaker 1: do it? Because coming from a guy who runs I
Speaker 1: don't know what are you up to now? Eighty plus
Speaker 1: trail cameras a year?
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't want to publicly say in fear
Speaker 2: of self incriminating, but I've got fifty.
Speaker 1: Yes, you have ran a lot of different trail cameras
Speaker 1: over the years. You've ran cellular, you've run cards, you've
Speaker 1: run everything. You probably had one with film in.
Speaker 2: It, dude, I had this goes a long ways back.
Speaker 2: If you guys can find this and add it in
Speaker 2: and post it, be great. But the wildlife I was
Speaker 2: the I don't know who made it, but the juries
Speaker 2: promoted it. Back in the day where you could take
Speaker 2: remember that, you remember the cameras like the little handicam
Speaker 2: deals and they open like this and you could set
Speaker 2: it down and plug it in and it would go off. Now,
Speaker 2: I use that for two years until they discovered that
Speaker 2: they could run video as an option on these other
Speaker 2: cell camera for other contrail cameras. So yeah, I was
Speaker 2: doing it that way back in the day. And that
Speaker 2: dude that box was like.
Speaker 1: This, Oh it's huge. And now where we're at there,
Speaker 1: they're just so small. They're really cute. They're good to
Speaker 1: have around, but there's a learning curve with all this stuff,
Speaker 1: and like some guys are just unwilling to learn. And
Speaker 1: I get it, Like there's stuff like that I don't
Speaker 1: want to learn, but I.
Speaker 2: Know I have to, Like, well, I've got news for you, Kevin,
Speaker 2: I've got news for you. We are middle aged.
Speaker 1: I know, I hate to say it, man, we used
Speaker 1: to in the industry.
Speaker 2: I know, I know we were at one time. But
Speaker 2: I do think there comes a point and I feel
Speaker 2: like I've gotten there to a certain extent. With some technology,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh God, I got to learn a new
Speaker 2: iOS or I got to learn a new you know
Speaker 2: something or other, and it just it does get stressful.
Speaker 2: But I've always committed, and I remind myself this on
Speaker 2: the regular that I need to to physically commit to
Speaker 2: staying up with things to stay relevant in the space.
Speaker 2: And I want to provide a perspective that comes from
Speaker 2: both schools. I want to be able to talk about
Speaker 2: how it used to be, how I had to triangulate,
Speaker 2: you know, the pontoon boat lift and the weeping willow
Speaker 2: over here with the point here. You know, I had
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 1: And so then you go, oh, no, the water levels
Speaker 1: down two feet.
Speaker 2: Well, but I don't. I don't overlook the fact that
Speaker 2: those that came before me paved the way. And I
Speaker 2: think personally, if you can accept that that somebody helped
Speaker 2: you get there, it's going to make you more productive.
Speaker 2: But again, what I what I have a hard time
Speaker 2: with is when when entities or people are determining for
Speaker 2: me how I can participate. I could give a rip
Speaker 2: what the government says about that right that one down,
Speaker 2: But the problem is is that was implemented by people
Speaker 2: that were jealous of their neighbor killing big elk or
Speaker 2: big meal deer. Its spawned all of this. Kevin is
Speaker 2: spawning jealousy. And so my advice is, watch your own bobber.
Speaker 1: Watch your own bobber that needs to be on a
Speaker 1: shirt or something like a hat or a bumper sticker
Speaker 1: or something like that. Watch your own bobber. I like that, well, man,
Speaker 1: like I have a question. Do you ever miss the
Speaker 1: days when you used to go out and just fish
Speaker 1: or hunt with no technology? Like with no technology?
Speaker 2: No, I don't do I miss a simpler time as
Speaker 2: a culture. Yes. One of the things and one of
Speaker 2: the things that was worn to me before I took
Speaker 2: the step to becoming an outdoor communicator and a media
Speaker 2: guy and all this stuff was you know it might
Speaker 2: ruin your passion. Well, I can see how that would happen.
Speaker 2: And if you, if you and I were to be
Speaker 2: an open book and talk about the negatives to our jobs,
Speaker 2: it may sound like we're complaining, but it comes with baggage,
Speaker 2: it comes with complications, and it's a job at the
Speaker 2: end of the day to an extent. But I do
Speaker 2: love what I do. That comment about making your job
Speaker 2: your career or making your passion your career. It's it's
Speaker 2: enhanced my passion for the outdoors. It's enhanced my passion
Speaker 2: to share the outdoors and those experiences and stories with people.
Speaker 2: I guess it's easy to say I miss the days
Speaker 2: of blindly sitting in a tree stand hoping a deer
Speaker 2: will show up, and when one does, you don't know them.
Speaker 2: There was a certain element of fun to that. But
Speaker 2: I also I'm into the chess match. I really like
Speaker 2: knowing that deer on their feet. And literally, as we speak,
Speaker 2: I've been getting trail camera photos off the hook because today,
Speaker 2: for some reason in Minnesota, I got a lot of
Speaker 2: daytime movement, so I barometric pressure, maybe what it is.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be seventy five tomorrow. Maybe they're on their
Speaker 2: feet to enjoy the cooler weather. But all that to say,
Speaker 2: to be completely honest with you, I don't I wouldn't
Speaker 2: trade those days. I like what we have now. I
Speaker 2: like being able to watch deer on a cell camera
Speaker 2: and make a decision because no matter what technology you
Speaker 2: have in front of you, forward facing sonar, electronic scopes,
Speaker 2: cell cameras, range finders, on bows like, it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: in the in the heat of the moment, you still
Speaker 2: have to perform, and all those plans that you made
Speaker 2: leading up to that moment had to be laid correctly
Speaker 2: based on the most recent information. Naturally, as technologic technology evolves,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have some more poachers if you will. You know,
Speaker 2: we just got the news yesterday. I think this kid
Speaker 2: Ohio pled guilty to what fourteen counts on that deer
Speaker 2: he poached that was like Ohio's largest deer. It's sad story.
Speaker 2: Had he not had trail cameras or cell cameras that
Speaker 2: that may not have happened. So you can point and blame.
Speaker 2: But I want to say, hey, poor ethics. Dad didn't
Speaker 2: whip him enough growing up. You know, me and my
Speaker 2: kid no better to make that kind of decision.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it ain't worth it.
Speaker 2: Here's the ethical here's the ethical balance. The forward facing
Speaker 2: sonar argument often hinges on or leans on fish populations
Speaker 2: and how too much fishing pressure is going to decimate
Speaker 2: the fisheries. I don't believe that. I think that's on
Speaker 2: the angler. I think the DNR needs to evaluate catch rates,
Speaker 2: produce more career creole survey results to determine if croppies
Speaker 2: and bluegills and bass and whatever. If the limits need
Speaker 2: to be strengthened to maintain the health of the fishery. Okay,
Speaker 2: if you have a limit of one deer or one
Speaker 2: buck or whatever your limit is, who gives a rip.
Speaker 2: If you saw it on a cell camera. You're still
Speaker 2: entitled your limit. You still paid for your life like
Speaker 2: the next guy. The ethicacy, in my mind, comes down
Speaker 2: to making good choices within the laws that you're presented with. Okay, baiting,
Speaker 2: for example, if it's illegal in Iowa, don't bait in Iowa.
Speaker 2: If your legal debate in Saskatchewan hunt over bait and Saskatchwan,
Speaker 2: is it wrong? Not per reacher.
Speaker 1: So a looted your limit, and that's what it is.
Speaker 1: Your limit is your limit. But there are scofflaws out
Speaker 1: there that absolutely do not adhere to those and those
Speaker 1: are the ones that give everybody a bad name. Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: Like that's just I mean, and that's what you hear
Speaker 1: the loudest are well, this guy did it, and so
Speaker 1: how many other people did we not catch?
Speaker 2: So I really, I really think the industry is divided
Speaker 2: a lot very similar ways to the way we are
Speaker 2: culturally with politics. And I do know that that you know,
Speaker 2: most of the hunting and fishing industry strongly leans to
Speaker 2: the right. With some exceptions they're in and whatever. That's fine,
Speaker 2: but it's ultimately you're having procedures and policies being implemented
Speaker 2: by the have nots. If you will. They don't want
Speaker 2: to learn the technology, they don't like the technology, and
Speaker 2: like I said before, or a lot of it stemmed
Speaker 2: out of jealousy, and I guess I don't want somebody
Speaker 2: over top of me or someone that can force feed
Speaker 2: agendas down my throat telling me that I cannot use
Speaker 2: a piece of technology that is just simply a tool
Speaker 2: that it complements my approach. If you don't like it, Kevin,
Speaker 2: if you don't want to use four facing sonar, don't
Speaker 2: put it on your boat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you.
Speaker 2: Don't want to camera, don't hang them up. If you
Speaker 2: don't want to scope onder gun that's got a red
Speaker 2: don and it, don't use it.
Speaker 1: How far away are we from getting to where people say,
Speaker 1: don't use rangefindering range finding binoculars? Because I got a
Speaker 1: pair of loophole BX was it BX four hds that
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that I wouldn't get rid of and
Speaker 1: the technology built into like any pick, any range finding optic.
Speaker 2: There were close. We're really close to that. It's happening
Speaker 2: as we speak. I mean, you look at the you know,
Speaker 2: the three top professional leagues in fishing right now have
Speaker 2: various forms of bands, one from a complete band to
Speaker 2: a minimal band to a partial band that takes a
Speaker 2: college degree to figure out how it works. Like there
Speaker 2: are the people that don't want this to happen. This
Speaker 2: goes back to your very original question about what I
Speaker 2: texted you. The folks that don't want it are the
Speaker 2: there's the most of them. Okay, they're they're a loud bunch.
Speaker 2: They're the squeaky wheel. And right now they haven't retired.
Speaker 2: They're about to retire, but they haven't quite retired yet,
Speaker 2: and so they still have a they still have a
Speaker 2: skin in the game, and and they want it fair
Speaker 2: to them and and to be fair to them. I
Speaker 2: don't disagree with some kind of balance. I'm going to
Speaker 2: go far off the edge here, Kevin. I don't know
Speaker 2: that I feel right about having six live transducers on
Speaker 2: my boat. That's a little kill. But am I Who
Speaker 2: am I to say that's right or wrong? I think
Speaker 2: in the scope of the rules, why not. I mean, yes,
Speaker 2: if you want to with six transducers on your boat,
Speaker 2: you should have the right to do so. If you're
Speaker 2: going to talk about top levels of competition in the
Speaker 2: Bass and Walleye Worlds, there needs to be a balance.
Speaker 2: There needs to be a regulation that makes it fair
Speaker 2: across the board. Yeah, you know, that's a loose way
Speaker 2: to say that, but I really the ford facing sonar
Speaker 2: argument is one that's kind of got my blood boiling,
Speaker 2: but one that really makes me mad of these cell
Speaker 2: camera discussions, because if it's your own land and you're
Speaker 2: not on public and even if you are on public,
Speaker 2: like I did the work to put it there, I
Speaker 2: took the risk of leaving my technology on public property.
Speaker 2: Who cares?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know what, man, That for the whole cell
Speaker 1: cam debate, I'd never understood, because you're being less intrusive
Speaker 1: to wildlife. Like so you're in there once and then
Speaker 1: you pick it up at the end of the season
Speaker 1: unless you move it.
Speaker 2: If it's public land and you're sharing that land with
Speaker 2: other hunters, you're doing them a favor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: Not trumpet checking your cars. You know what, Kevin, we're
Speaker 2: I think that culture has shifted this way, and it's
Speaker 2: it's aggravating. I think it's kind of sad that that
Speaker 2: there are people, whether it's it's any pursuit, any any
Speaker 2: life scope examples that that we can you know, electric cars,
Speaker 2: for example, or or bump stocks on on some rifles.
Speaker 2: Like we could go way down the list on things
Speaker 2: that somebody else's opinion is impacting what you and I
Speaker 2: are able to do.
Speaker 1: And oh, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: I wish we could kind of get back to that.
Speaker 2: You asked me if I go back to the days
Speaker 2: of no technology, Like, I don't know that I trade it,
Speaker 2: but I do miss that simplicity of there not being
Speaker 2: a lot of arguments.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what I wanted to know, is
Speaker 1: if you miss the like the days when you just
Speaker 1: went out and fished, like the days when you just
Speaker 1: went out in the field and sat down, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I went to hunting out in Iowa and
Speaker 1: we would just go down and we'd say, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys know the area. Our buddy Jeremy knows the area,
Speaker 1: and he says, go over here and sit down, and
Speaker 1: you've been there quite a bit. But dude, we just
Speaker 1: went and hunted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had fun.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was in the area we didn't like.
Speaker 2: But when we're there next year, Kevin, We're going to
Speaker 2: have the same level of fun. Like it's still going
Speaker 2: to be a good time. And I think that that's
Speaker 2: the personal responsibility side of it, That is, it is
Speaker 2: what you make it. And uh, you know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm missing out on the experience
Speaker 2: sitting at home knowing I've got sale sell cameras soaking
Speaker 2: in Iowa. To me, that stokes the fire. To me,
Speaker 2: that increases my desire to go and to make more
Speaker 2: time available. And especially when you and I get together
Speaker 2: after how many ever years, it's been like, that's what
Speaker 2: it comes down to for me and I guess there's
Speaker 2: no room in that get together for an argument of
Speaker 2: ethicacy for cell cameras. It's not even gonna come up
Speaker 2: between you and I because we we both know the
Speaker 2: foundation we have will make us successful without that information.
Speaker 2: Absolutely the foundation And if you want to add that
Speaker 2: to your your saturl tools have had.
Speaker 1: It as you should, like as you should if you
Speaker 1: if man, don't get jealous, don't be a little jealous
Speaker 1: person like you just don't like if you want it,
Speaker 1: just like learn it.
Speaker 2: You know what goes down to dude? Social media? Social
Speaker 2: media is the devil and I'm on it right now,
Speaker 2: you know. But it's just it's like you get only
Speaker 2: the good parts of other people that they want you
Speaker 2: to think is the way every day? Yeah, not the case.
Speaker 1: Not me. I just post when I remember, and I
Speaker 1: don't remember that often.
Speaker 2: I'll just post a brag.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Really, to get down to it, it's it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: my SunShot of ear.
Speaker 1: And yeah, oh dude, that's a whole nother podcast. We
Speaker 1: can talk about how much time do you got?
Speaker 2: I got time? I have nothing.
Speaker 1: Here's what we're gonna do. Let's keep a rolling, all right,
Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna break this one.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sign off, and we're gonna pick it up
Speaker 1: next week and we're gonna have a conversation about what
Speaker 1: is Oklahoma smoking and deer hunting season? So we're gonna
Speaker 1: get the end of that on the next episode of
Speaker 1: gunn Talk Hunt. This is Thomas Allen, Like he's a superstar, folks.
Speaker 1: If you don't know him, go find him. What is
Speaker 1: your Instagram handle, my brother Thomas Allen for the number four.
Speaker 1: All right, go check him out. Yeah, go check him out.
Speaker 1: You will love what you see and you'll love what
Speaker 1: you read and what you see on TV. He is
Speaker 1: as genuine as they come. Thomas, Thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 2: My pleasures always.
Speaker 1: All Right, that is gunn Talk Hunt for this week.
Speaker 1: You folks know, hey, youth seasons are cranking up now
Speaker 1: more than ever. Keep those muzzles point in a safe
Speaker 1: direction and always be on the hunt.