WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:02.720 JP When we come to the AWA on the Complete 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:04.879 Hulk Hogan, it's a whole new kettle of fish, a 3 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.679 whole new territory, so many characters, so much background to 4 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:11.720 learn about and understand. We know Hulk took off as 5 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:15.279 a baby face star, but still so we're so thirsty 6 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:17.280 for color about what it was like in the AWA, 7 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:17.640 aren't we. 8 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:21.079 Yes, Oh, listen. Out of all the territories, this is 9 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:23.559 one that fascinates me the most. 10 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:27.000 And so we're really excited to welcome the great jumpin 11 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:30.440 Jim Brunzel, who is a Minnesota boy in the first place, 12 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:32.679 lifelong AWA guy until he went, of course to the 13 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:36.920 WWE as the Killer Bees with Brian Blair, and we're 14 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.000 really really fortunate to have him. Deem us worthy of 15 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:43.000 some time here to talk about Hulk, the AWA and 16 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:46.320 that whole rather magical time period. Jim, it's really good 17 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:47.960 to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us. 18 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:50.880 Well, thank you for having me. You know, I do 19 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.359 a few of these and it's always good to you know, 20 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.960 reminisce and that was a great time here. You know, 21 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:01.920 when Hulk first came to the AWA, it was just incredible. 22 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.959 I mean, he took the territory by storm. I mean, 23 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:10.799 I'd never seen such huge houses. And you know, they 24 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:12.439 sort of brought him in as a yell and he 25 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:15.840 wound up being a baby phase, a huge baby phase, 26 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:16.920 and the people loved him. 27 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:18.879 Oh yeah, I can't wait to get into all of that. 28 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.560 And I guess we should start with when you first 29 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:23.599 met Hulk. I know there was an interaction at a 30 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:25.599 gym when he first came in with you and him, 31 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:27.359 I believe, But did you ever meet him before then? 32 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:28.640 Or when did you first meet Hulk? 33 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.200 I first met Hulk when he came here to do TV. 34 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:36.560 And then I had just opened up a gym in 35 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:41.519 white per Lake. And in the next oh, probably the 36 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.519 next couple of weeks to a month when I opened 37 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.879 the gym, he came and made an appearance and crime, 38 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:50.799 there was like two thousand people there and I had 39 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:55.280 just spent thirteen thousand dollars on mirrors. Wow, and there 40 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.359 were so many people in the gym and they were 41 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:01.519 leaning on the mirrors. I simply, God, I haven't paid 42 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:06.000 for those yet. But he just, you know, he was 43 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.360 he was a dear friend, and you know it just 44 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.680 you know, things happened, and you know, and I might 45 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:19.400 be jumping a head forward, but you know, without Hulk Hogan, 46 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:22.680 they wouldn't have been WrestleMania's and there wouldn't have been 47 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:27.560 al Comediet and it wouldn't have given Vince the control 48 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.080 over he did over the twenty you know, twenty five, 49 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.120 twenty six territories when you know, he took over because 50 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:39.639 Hulk was he was a golden goose man. He just yeah, 51 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:40.280 he was it. 52 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.919 What was his demeanor? Like Hulk was he because he'd 53 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:46.919 come off New York and he was kind of boisterous 54 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:48.960 on that TV. He kind of found a heel persona 55 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.800 and a swagger out there. What was he like to 56 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:52.159 deal with personally when you first met him? 57 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:57.680 He's real quiet, right, real quiet, and you know, yeah, 58 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.240 it was so it was a difference between night and day, 59 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:04.919 you know, when he'd get on that mike, but otherwise 60 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.560 he was very quiet. He was you know, he was 61 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:11.280 a guitar player, a bass player, and I had some 62 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:16.560 friends of mine that played in the band and he 63 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:19.039 got up and jammed with him a couple of times 64 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:23.680 and the people went crazy and it was just fun. 65 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.680 And he you know, he loved Minneapolis. He really liked 66 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:29.520 it because he only had to work three four times 67 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:29.879 a week. 68 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.759 You know, did you ever hear anything Jim about him 69 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.879 before leaving Vince Senior having to go to or schedule 70 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.080 to go to work for Jim Crockett and Charlotte? Nope, 71 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.840 never heard about that, Okay. 72 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.560 Never, matter of fact, I was in Charlotte, and I'm 73 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:53.360 trying to think I was in Charlotte. I left Awa 74 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:57.400 in seventy nine, I think, and went down No. Seventy eight, 75 00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.520 went down to Charlotte for a year and a half 76 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.479 and then came back, and then in eighty five I 77 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.840 went to New York. So you know, I didn't know, 78 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:08.639 if you know, there might have been word, but you know, 79 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.919 North Carolina, Jimmy Crockett's promotion was on fire down there too. 80 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.399 I mean, I mean they really drew, you know, with 81 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:22.079 Flair and Ricky Steamboat and it was you know it 82 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.000 probably he would have done well any place he went. 83 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.480 Sure, what was your understanding as to how he came 84 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:29.600 to a WA Who reached out to who first? How 85 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:30.639 did he get on their radar? 86 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:34.959 You know, I don't know anything about that. 87 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:35.160 That's fair. 88 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:38.920 I don't know. You know, I hear things, but I 89 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.680 don't know that if they're true or not. I knew 90 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:45.040 that there was a they were they wanted him to 91 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.160 come to New York, but there was a lull in 92 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.000 what they wanted to do and the timing wasn't right. 93 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.079 So somehow or other, he wound up in you know, 94 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.800 the Awa And I don't know if that was through 95 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:01.040 Japan or whatever, but you know, he came here and 96 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:05.639 he was just you know, it was it was hell 97 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:07.959 on fire. I mean, he just lit this place up 98 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:10.920 and it was just incredible. Yeah, it's great, biggest houses 99 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:13.319 every place, you know, I mean the houses sold out everywhere. 100 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.480 Do you remember buzz about his arrival before you met 101 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:18.439 him in the gym and White bear Lake, was there 102 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:20.800 buzz that this guy's like coming in or did you 103 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:22.959 just encounter him one day and learn that day he 104 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:23.720 was he was here? 105 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.120 Now that's exactly what happened. All of a sudden, boom 106 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.720 he appeared and they had Johnny Valiant doing it warm 107 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.000 up interview, you know, and Johnny Vunny was a heel 108 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.959 and he and you know, he brought Hulk in and 109 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.800 his you know, h it's his you know, big star, 110 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.759 and all of a sudden, you know, Holks started talking 111 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.120 and then the next thing, you know, you know, the 112 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:50.319 people were applauding him in the ring, you know, and 113 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:52.439 he was wrestling two guys, and all of a sudden, 114 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:54.839 you know, they said, wow, oh Covi, and you know 115 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.800 he's he's the real thing. And then they just sort 116 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:04.040 of dropped Janny Valliant and uh, you know how just 117 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.360 you know, went on his Mary Way. I mean, if 118 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:10.560 if you were on you know, we only we only 119 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:14.759 ran like one town a night, you know, in the AWA, 120 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.519 and you know it wasn't nearly as big. 121 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:23.120 As as the WWE or WWF, and and every town 122 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:27.079 we went to was just incredibly you know, it sold 123 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:28.079 out all the time. 124 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:31.360 And he was just he was you know, like I said, 125 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:32.160 the Golden. 126 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:35.879 Ghosts interesting on Johnny Valiant because of course everyone's kind 127 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:37.480 of heard that story of how they gave him a 128 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:40.639 heel mouthpiece. But as we're watching the matches Jim through 129 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:45.120 through eighty one, Johnny turns face with halt. Johnny has 130 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.439 the mic in a screaming hal Caulkulk at the same 131 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.199 Paul Civic and other places. Do you yeah, what was 132 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:51.800 that about? I thought I thought they. 133 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.839 Well, I think they they it's they sort of waded 134 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.279 out and then they realized that how could do you know, 135 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:04.639 a pretty damn good interview, you know, either way. And 136 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.560 I think they just sort of let Johnny go on 137 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:11.920 by the wayside because Hulk didn't really need him, you know, 138 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.240 as as far as a mouthpiece, because he just, you know, boom, 139 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.800 all of a sudden, he just caught it. 140 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:22.839 I was just gonna say, it's just it's it's interesting 141 00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:25.319 too about the promos, because we saw him in New York. 142 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:27.360 We saw videos of him New York, and it's very 143 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:34.920 very it's very kind of low key, almost like surfer dudish, 144 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.399 but arrogant and heelish. But then all of a sudden, 145 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:40.480 you know, there's like a switch that happens, and all 146 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.040 of a sudden he's this animated, over the top like 147 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.279 he's doing interviews with with gene Oakerland that are more 148 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:50.120 like Hulk Hogan. And you know what do you you know, 149 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:51.639 what do you what do you make of that change? 150 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.120 Do you know anything? What kind of happened in between? 151 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:59.079 I just think you know, they you know, he was well, 152 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.800 he was certain nurse so long, but I mean, you know, 153 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.360 they had Bobby Heaton here, who was a great interviewer, 154 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.399 and Gene Oakland gets the best. You know, you got 155 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.279 the best out of everybody when you interview. So they 156 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:13.279 just let I'll go. You know, they just said, hey, 157 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.439 you know, do what you want to do, and you know, 158 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.839 you know do this. You're the you know, you're the 159 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:22.879 six foot seven, inchestree hundred and twenty pounds, you know, 160 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:28.439 new Hollywood star in wrestling, So go get it, you know. 161 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:30.160 So he did. 162 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.000 When Johnny Valiant was at ringside kind of trying to 163 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.080 be a babyface cheerleader, we noticed it was doing a 164 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:38.039 lot of six man's you, Hulk and Greg against whatever 165 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.080 the other heel team would be. Was it kind of 166 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:42.159 Was it kind of annoying? You guys are in there 167 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:43.960 trying to work and Johnny Valiants on the house Mike 168 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.960 scream and haul haulk. 169 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.200 You know, it didn't bother me a bit because I 170 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.559 figured that we were in the mean event and it 171 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:52.759 was always good to hit Hulk as your partner rather 172 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:53.240 you're in. 173 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:57.600 To be absolutely man. Great answer. So you and Greg 174 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:02.039 and Hulk have talked about the moment that everyone believes 175 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.240 he first tore his shirt off. It was in the AWA, 176 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.240 It was before a six man tag. Anything you can 177 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.919 remember about that particular thing. Whose idea was it to 178 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:11.399 rip his shirt off? How did that happen? 179 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.759 I have no idea. I think it was something that 180 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.200 I think it was something that had sort of manifested 181 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.919 itself inside of him, because you know, he's such a 182 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.759 muscular guy and he had that and it just you know, 183 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.120 I mean that the the tank top was more or 184 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.600 less a tank top, and it was you know, cut 185 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.240 open on the sleeves, so you know, it wasn't like 186 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.159 a real t shirt. But it got over. You know, 187 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:40.519 he tore that damn thing off, and you know, people says, oh, 188 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.159 the oak means business, so you know, I mean that 189 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.159 just became part of his at tire and part of 190 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:49.559 his gimmick that when you know, he'd come in and 191 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.480 they just tear that shirt and yeah, so I just 192 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:56.720 thought it was part of the package and it. 193 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.759 Worked well initially. Was it a deal where you and 194 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.919 Gregg would help rip the shirt? Do you remember that 195 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.720 at all? Or was it always Hulk doing it himself? 196 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.679 Always Hulk got it. He didn't need that for anything. 197 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.120 It's so funny because Hulk, you know, I thought the 198 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.080 same thing when I heard Greg say that in some interviews, 199 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.639 but Hulk, I think in Jericho's podcast, said that that 200 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.039 that that was what happened, is the first night the 201 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.960 shirt ripped. You grabbed a side, Greg grabbed a side 202 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.159 and just ripped it off while he was being introduced 203 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:23.759 to the people. 204 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.679 But oh, well, well, you know something, my memory is 205 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.720 that's one of the consequences. Of course you can't remember Diddle. 206 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:35.200 That's a beautiful uh, it's a beautiful thing to think about, 207 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:36.799 you know, him kind of coming into his own he 208 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.559 he he bumped up against Jesse almost immediately. Jesse was 209 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.080 very well established in the territory muscle man, great contrast 210 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.600 to Hulk, but they ended up working together and then 211 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:49.440 ended up kind of you know, I don't say mortal enemies, 212 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.279 but definitely not buddies. What do you make of the 213 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.039 whole arc of Hogan running into Jesse and working with 214 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.039 him in a w A and and how it ended 215 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:56.759 up between. 216 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:01.200 Them, Well, let me just see this about Jesse. Jesse 217 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.600 had a way about him that got himself over as 218 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:10.200 a heel. And you know, he was a very good talker, interviewer. 219 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.519 You know, he was in like the top five, but 220 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.919 in the ring. He was limited. He wasn't he wasn't 221 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.600 you know, and I don't mean this derogatory, but he 222 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:26.240 wasn't that much of an athlete in terms of you know, 223 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.240 taking bumps and popping up and you know, you know, 224 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.879 doom doom doom, you know, and having the crowd react. 225 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:38.000 And you know, as matter of fact, next week, I 226 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:41.799 think it's next week or the week after that, for SummerSlam, 227 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.720 they are going to interview me about Jesse and and 228 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:51.320 ww Is just mentioned, you know that he had more 229 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:56.840 or less you know, led the way, you know, suggesting that, 230 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.440 you know, pro wrestling needs the union, and I think 231 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:02.799 they want to talk about that a little bit interest 232 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.840 And of course it never happened, but uh, you know, 233 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:09.120 I always thought it should. And as a matter of fact, 234 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.679 I in turn called Gene Upshaw, who was the head 235 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.919 of the NFL Union, and I talked to him on 236 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.000 several occasions, and he had told me, you know, I 237 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.960 told him what was going on in pro wrestling, and 238 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.279 the money was being you know, as unbelievable amount of money, 239 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:30.039 and you know, we just you know, the wrestlers never 240 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.000 knew how many how much of the money was you know, 241 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.639 they just knew that the houses were sold out, and 242 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.840 then there was no pay scale and there was no 243 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.320 contract real you know, other than now, I know the 244 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.440 guys are you know, some of the guys are having contracts. 245 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:52.080 But I have the original contract that was given to us, 246 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.039 you know, when I first started, and I remember, you know, 247 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:03.960 outside a little well, a part of it said, you know, 248 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:09.080 for outside revenue, outside of the WWF, the talent was 249 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.720 going to get twenty five percent of the gross income. 250 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:18.159 And you know, and I don't know if you guys 251 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.759 know this, but Brian and I wound up suing vents 252 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:25.080 because not only did we not get the twenty five 253 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:29.399 percent of the gross the wwe paid eight percent of 254 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.559 the net to the talent. So that was quite a 255 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:39.919 despair disparagy and pay so you know, and that was 256 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.960 one of the things, you know, we had no control over. 257 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.639 And you know, and everybody knew, you know, howk was 258 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.759 making fifty thousand dollars a week, you know, just on 259 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:52.440 his you know, T shirts and whatever else his dollars 260 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:54.799 and everything else, you know, and plus he was getting 261 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.879 ten to twelve percent of the house because he was 262 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.000 the main event. So you know, I can't remember, but 263 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.080 I have the Sports illustrated somewhere. I think it was 264 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:07.279 nineteen eighty five, yes, eighty four eighty five, and I 265 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.080 had a picture of him on the front and it 266 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:14.480 said America's top Dog and it explained that Hulk was 267 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.039 the highest paid athlete in the United States at ten 268 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:18.879 million a year. 269 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.879 Amazing, amazing. So yeah, I can see why the mind 270 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.440 went there when we asked about Jesse. With with Jesse 271 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.480 and Hogan and Awa, what was their chemistry like and 272 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.279 did they get along or did you could you tell 273 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.879 really soon that they were going to kind of butt heads. 274 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.799 Well, you know, they both have you know, pretty good egos, 275 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:44.279 and I think I think that, you know, because Hulk 276 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:50.919 was to me a lot more athletic, and you know, 277 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.360 he just fit the part a lot better. And then 278 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.279 you know, Jesse had some problems with his lungs, you know, flying, 279 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.840 you know, because he something was happy and they told 280 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:04.559 him not to fly anymore. So that then pretty soon 281 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.000 he you know, and I don't I think this was 282 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.399 in the WWF. Yes, they sort of took him off 283 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.120 the you know, the bill, you know, took him off 284 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:17.080 the roster and he just did the TV so and 285 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:20.200 you know, Holk was you know, I mean, I remember 286 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.159 this is something that happened when we were with the WWF. 287 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:29.600 We wrestled in Puerto Rico and they had a Leer 288 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:34.320 Jet there. And after we wrestled in Puerto Rico, Hulk, 289 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:38.440 Brian and I flew from Puerto Rico to New York. 290 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.480 They picked us up in a limousine, dropped us off 291 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.720 at Holk. It was the damnedest thing, you know, because yeah, 292 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.639 because I you know, I flew in a couple of 293 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.320 you know, uh, leer jets, but nothing like this, you know, 294 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:57.039 I mean Bowman, you know, and too he did travel 295 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.879 that way a little bit because he was in such demand, 296 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.440 and I mean they worked the ship out of him. 297 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:05.240 And you know, thank god he didn't drink because he 298 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.120 never he never would have made it because the guys 299 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:11.759 who drank, you know, they were half punchy, you know 300 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:16.080 at the time the bell ring. But he was, you know, 301 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:19.080 he just took it, you know, and he just gobbled 302 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.240 it up. And you know, he was he was one 303 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:23.360 in a million, one. 304 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.080 In a million. So there was the clash with Jesse. 305 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.600 One of the things we were looking back at the 306 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.480 old newspaper clippings was in the Minneapolis Star. I think 307 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.440 it was. They used to have a wrestling column and 308 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.679 it was the Secret Scribe. It was like a massive yes, 309 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.519 who is who is the secret Scribe? You gotta know. 310 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.720 I still don't know, Fabous Jim, you know who the 311 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:41.679 secret Scribe is. 312 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.559 I don't know because wrestling per se was not taken 313 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.080 as a major sport in In matter of fact, when 314 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.960 Brian and I wore those crazy Nike Dunk black and 315 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.919 you know, yellow tennis shoes basketball shoes, I wrote a 316 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.080 letter to Nike saying, hey, yeah, you know where the 317 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.519 Killer bees and we're wearing these shoes, and you know, 318 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.279 would you like to, you know, look at us and 319 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.720 see if there's any promotion? And I have the letter someplace, 320 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.319 gentlemen that had said, mister Brunzil, pro wrestling is way 321 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:16.440 below the standards. 322 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:17.640 Wow. 323 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.920 And I was just I thought, you know, I thought, jeez, 324 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.000 if they would have done something, you know, Brian and 325 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.599 I would have made you know, a ton of a 326 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.880 lot more money than we did, you know, And that 327 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:33.000 you know, that's the way it was, you know, and 328 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.440 a lot of you know, and especially in Minneapolis, because 329 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.519 you know, Verne ran a really different program in terms 330 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:47.279 of he more or less concentrated on the athleticism of wrestling, 331 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.519 you know, and the showmanship came in, you know, like 332 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:54.000 with Dusty Rhodes and Bobby Heenan and you know, Nick 333 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:57.640 Bockwinkle was a great champion for years and then you 334 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.279 know when how came you know, I think, and this 335 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.759 is what this is my idea why Hulk never got 336 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:09.440 the WW or the AWA belt is because he was 337 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:14.920 such a drastic change in personalities and champion than Vern Ganya. 338 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.519 Vern Ghanya was a collegiate champion, you know, NCAA on 339 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.759 the Olympic team, world champion, and you know, was the 340 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:24.519 wrestler's wrestler, and all of a sudden, you have a 341 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.599 you know, six foot sixth fnd here guitar player with 342 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.640 twenty two of jarms, you know, coming out there and 343 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.000 just killing it, you know, and I think I think 344 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:39.160 that ego of Vern sort of held him back. And 345 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:43.000 because of that, you know, I think they were you 346 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.839 know a lot of people had said, you know, they should, 347 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.640 you know, they really should let Hawk, you know, have 348 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.279 the championship here in the AWA, and I thought, hell yes, 349 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:55.680 But then you know, I heard all sorts of Scuttle, 350 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.240 and they were worried that if they gave him the belt, 351 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:01.000 he'd go to New York and they unify the two 352 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.279 belts and you know, and that can all be taken 353 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.480 care of, you know, legally, you know, by having a 354 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.880 contract saying, you know, if you win the belt, you're 355 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.039 not going to go to New York and drop it. 356 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.319 You know. That's all I would have had to done, 357 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:20.680 but they didn't. And then consequently Hulk left and the 358 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.920 AWA just fell. I mean, it just went boom. I remember, 359 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.599 I remember, and I had a gym at the time, 360 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.240 like I said, and I remember the houses were so 361 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.920 bad and I was hardly making any you know, decent money. 362 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.640 I went to Vern and I said, Vern I says, 363 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.640 you know, I said, things are getting bad. And I said, 364 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.720 I realize, you know, but I said, I need, you know, 365 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:48.680 a guaranteed contract, you know, for you to sign me 366 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:50.880 to keep me, you know, And he says, well, how 367 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:52.839 much do you want? I said one hundred and ten 368 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.200 thousand dollars? And you know what he said, he said, 369 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:56.799 you're not worth it going to New York. 370 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:01.079 Oh wow, that's you know. I'm glad we were here 371 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.759 because I wanted to ask you about this. You know, 372 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.680 Vern had a negotiating style. I guess you could call 373 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.079 it that. And we had heard an interview that Brad 374 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.519 and Ringan's had done about the way Vern would talk 375 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:13.839 to Hulk. You know, you would think this golden goose, right, 376 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:15.599 he talked to him a little differently than he would 377 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:17.880 like an opening match guy. But Brad was saying, you know, 378 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.119 Vern would call Hulk a dip shit and he'd call 379 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:24.200 him a dumb ass. Yeah. I mean, is that Vern 380 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.839 having a you know, a fit because something didn't go 381 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:28.400 right in the ring or on a promo, or was 382 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.039 he regularly kind of you know, you know, talking down 383 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:33.400 to Hulk, do you remember. 384 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.960 Well, you know, I never heard him say any of that, 385 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:41.039 and I just think that if he did, it was 386 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.759 his way of sort of belittling Hulk to the fact 387 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.440 that you know, he was a national champion. Vern was, 388 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:53.440 and you know, Hulk was a magical figure in pro wrestling, 389 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.640 making a fortune for everybody. And you know, I again 390 00:20:57.920 --> 00:20:59.839 I think and you know, Greg gets mad at me 391 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:02.599 saying this, but it's the truth. I think it was 392 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:09.279 purely ego that stopped stopped Vern from giving the belt 393 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.680 to Hulk, and I would have loved to see it 394 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.160 because if Hawk loved it here because he didn't have 395 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.079 to wrestle that much, and plus he still had his 396 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.839 contract with Japan. You know, he could you know, he 397 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.519 would have. Vern would have been able to do what 398 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.119 Vince did, although Verndon had the TV connections that vinced it, 399 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:29.880 you know, I mean that was a big deal, you know, 400 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.359 the TV. But Vern was you know, I mean he 401 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.079 was he was. He was stubborn and pig headed and 402 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.920 you know, you know, a very egotistical man and thought, well, 403 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.880 you know I can do it. I'm very god yea, 404 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:45.279 and he couldn't. 405 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.519 So do you think that if if if Hogan, if 406 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:54.039 Vern had given Hogan the belt that the the like, 407 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.599 do you what do you do you think the wrestling 408 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.680 boom that that w had would have happened? Do you 409 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.000 think would have gone to a w A? What do 410 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.359 you you know? What do you what do you think 411 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:03.720 about that? 412 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.759 Well? It was fifty to fifty The reason why, I 413 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.519 mean it was a magic. Everything was magic with Hulk 414 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.960 when he went to New York because Vince had the 415 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.960 TV connections and all of a sudden boom he was 416 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.960 you know, he was nationwide, worldwide, you know, halkg and Hukemania, 417 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.160 and Vern didn't have those connections. I think Vern possibly 418 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.799 burnt a couple of bridges, you know, with some of 419 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:37.240 the major TV you know, networks, and I think that 420 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.680 probably would have hurt him. But at the same time, 421 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.920 you know, the opportunity to have Hulk as you're champion, 422 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.440 you know, Vern could have made a fortune, and you 423 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.920 know they could have worked something outward. You know, Hulk 424 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.599 left after so many you know, so long or something, 425 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.680 and I got suspended, and you know, there's always a way, 426 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:01.359 but it's just that that initial deal where I go, 427 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:03.319 you know, go to New York, you know, got out 428 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:05.279 of you know, boom in the next thing. You know, 429 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.400 a w A can't traw Diddley squat, you know, I 430 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.000 mean the houses were horrible on. 431 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.799 The friction with Vern. Did you see the incident where 432 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:19.039 Vern shot with Hulk in one front double? Now you 433 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:19.559 heard about that? 434 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.559 Ever I never I never heard of it. Never. You know, 435 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.160 I heard of it, but I never saw it. And 436 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:31.119 you know, you know, Vernon was a great wrestler, but 437 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.039 he's you know, he's fifty years older than Hulk, and 438 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:37.000 and you know, hal Cogan was in great shape, and 439 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.440 I watched some of those new Japan wrestling tapes of 440 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.920 him wrestling in Nooki and Hulk could get on the 441 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.279 mat and work. I mean he could wrestle. For a 442 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.559 big guy, he was very talented. So you know, I 443 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.400 you know, and you know, Greg, yeah, my dad did 444 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.640 this and that. I just let it roll by me 445 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:03.799 because I thought, there's you know, it's it's just it's 446 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:05.960 just a shame that it happened the way it did. 447 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:10.440 But you know, everything happens for a purpose, and that 448 00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:13.519 purpose was for Whoe Cogan because he became the biggest 449 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:15.599 star worldwide star in wrestling there. 450 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.359 Was did did you uh? 451 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:23.839 Did you ever frequent the Begania House at on Lake Minnetaka? 452 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.119 Oh? Yes, see Greg and I played football together when 453 00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:30.480 we were a freshman and he was a quarterback and 454 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.640 I was a wide receiver and he was a good quarterback. 455 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:35.680 And you know he was you know, he was six 456 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.160 feet and one hundred and seventy pounds, but he could throw 457 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.440 the ball decent. But he wasn't the type of big 458 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:46.000 ten football player that Murray Warmath, who our coach was 459 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.400 at that time. You know, he wanted a quarterback that 460 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.920 was six two two twenty that could run the ball 461 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:56.000 on an option. You know, I forget about passing the ball. 462 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.519 The only passes, you know. So, you know, Greg and 463 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.200 I did well together, and then he says, I'm going 464 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.920 to I'm going to transfer. So he went to Wyoming 465 00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:07.880 and he wound up playing a little bit in Wyoming. 466 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:13.880 And then then I was, you know, I tried, I 467 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:15.680 had a try out. I played one year a semi 468 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.799 pro in Wisconsin, had a try out with the Washington Redskins, 469 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.759 didn't make it, came back and I thought, I'm going 470 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.680 to go get my degree. So I had like thirty 471 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.720 credits left to get my degree. And Greg called me 472 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.960 and he said, hey. He says, my you know, Cam 473 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.480 Petera just came back from the Olympics, and my dad's 474 00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:37.440 going to train him. And then there's an Iranian, you know, 475 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.720 amateur wrestler, Kasro Viziri is going to train him. And 476 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.839 Bob Bruggers, who was a former Gofer football player and 477 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:46.839 played in the NFL for about four or five years, 478 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.279 is going to train him. And then he said, we 479 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.079 got a schoolboy champ from Wisconsin who was in the 480 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.119 private school. His name is Richard Fleer. He's going to 481 00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.759 train him. And he said would you would you consider it? 482 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.359 And I thought, well, you know, and I said, Greg, 483 00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:04.759 I said, the only wrestling I did was in our mirrors, 484 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:06.759 you know, And he says not, don't worry about it. 485 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.160 He says, we're going to have Billy Robinson then, and 486 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.720 I thought, well, I says, you know, I might as 487 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.640 well do it. So and then at that time, when 488 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.880 all of us were there, we had we had Oh 489 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.160 it was it was miserable, but that's that's to be expected. 490 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.079 And that's why all these camps were. When you wanted 491 00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.079 to be a pro wrestler, they made it real hard 492 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.920 on you. So you know, they just wanted to test 493 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:31.720 you and see if you could make it, you know. 494 00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.559 But you know Verne, you know, he had Billy Robinson 495 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:36.880 beat the shit out of us for a couple hours 496 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.880 and then and then he'd come in twenty minutes and 497 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:44.680 then you know, hog tie you and cross face and 498 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.559 everything else. But it was, you know, and I remember 499 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:50.680 when he first sent me, he says, Jim, we're going 500 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.480 to send you down to Kansas City to get it, 501 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.599 get a little more experience. Well, I went down to 502 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.680 Kansas City and I wrestled every single night, twice a night, 503 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.319 and it was Bob Geigel and Pat O'Connor were the 504 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.960 book is there and we were I wrestled every night 505 00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:11.279 and it was you know, and I was getting twenty 506 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.680 five and thirty dollars a match, and I remember getting 507 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.400 the check and it was one hundred and forty five dollars. 508 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:20.960 And I worked ten times. 509 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.839 There, Jim, I got, I gotta when you're on the subject, 510 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.519 I got to ask you. You know, there's been interviews 511 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:29.680 over the years where people talked about how Vern tried 512 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:31.519 to cut in on the earnings of anybody he trained. 513 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.880 He wanted ten percent. I remember reading one place that 514 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.039 you or Ken Petera were like the only ones who 515 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:39.319 actually gave a percentage of your earnings to Vern. What 516 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:39.759 about that? 517 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.200 I was the only one, the only person confront And 518 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.400 the reason why is because I see it around here 519 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.720 five years and they could just take it out of 520 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:52.559 my check. The others Jenny left and everybody, Yeah, everybody left, 521 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.039 and they never got to dying from Rick. 522 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:56.640 So what was that conversation? Like, I'm sure at a 523 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.039 certain point you're like Verne, do I really have to 524 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:00.000 keep paying you. I mean, I'm just one of the boys. 525 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.440 Well he said, he said, Now, you know, he never 526 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.839 told us the deal on the contract. Never, he says, 527 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.079 you know, he says, as time goes by, he is, 528 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:11.880 let you know what we're going to do. So nobody knew, 529 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:13.960 you know, and then everybody thought, well, he's going to 530 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.680 let us go and you know, and or whatever. And 531 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.640 then then when he said, okay, here's the deal. You know, 532 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.160 you're gonna give me ten percent of the gross for 533 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:27.039 five years, and I thought so. Then I found found 534 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.119 out I was the only one that stayed in Minneapolis, 535 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.400 and I thought, shit, I'm the only one who's paying him. 536 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.880 So I can't remember it was fifty or sixty thousand 537 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.480 dollars that I gave him, but you know, I could 538 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.519 use the money he could have. So, you know, it 539 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:44.759 was just and you know, see that's the way wrestling is, 540 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.599 you know, I mean, it's just you very seldom to 541 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:52.599 the guys. You know, the workers themselves have an opportunity 542 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.359 to you know, be the head guy or you know, 543 00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:59.000 have be on top when it comes this or that. 544 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.880 You know, so you're at the discretion of the promoter. 545 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.599 And so you never had a conversation with Verne about 546 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.000 not taking that percentage. 547 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.400 Oh god, you know Greg said to me was just 548 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.640 don't worry. Jimmy says he's going to give it back 549 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.880 to when you're done with the five years. And he 550 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:16.519 never did. 551 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.799 All right, Okay, you were reading Ed Leslie's book Brutus 552 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:24.440 beef Cake, and he was there with Hulk at the time. 553 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.200 You remember Ed Boulder, Yes. 554 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.759 Yeah, he was. He was like Hulk Cogan's second shirt. 555 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.799 He was on his back all the time. Yeah, you know, 556 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:42.599 he and you know this, You know Edie was good, 557 00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.480 you know, and he he but thank god that he 558 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.279 you know, he knew Hogan because he wouldn't have gotten 559 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:52.400 anywhere without Hulk. Holk made made made him a living 560 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:54.279 for twenty years. You know. 561 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.119 In his book he talks about going to the territory 562 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.359 and in that closeness with Hull, which you know he'd 563 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:01.799 be the first to knowledge that. Sure, he kind of 564 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.480 painted as Greg being a little kind of jealous of 565 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:06.680 his friendship with Hulk, and that Greg wanted to be 566 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.680 closer to Hulk. I don't know how Ed came to 567 00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:11.240 feel that way. He tells a couple of stories in 568 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.079 the book, did you observe that dynamic where no, no. 569 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.400 No, no, I didn't. The only thing I know. 570 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:23.759 That that Brutus was right next to Hulk the whole time, 571 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.880 and you know, benefited from his friendship with Hulk and 572 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.160 every place he went, you know, you know. 573 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.079 Look at look at what happened to him, and you 574 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:38.400 know on New York. I mean it was just you know, 575 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.359 and I see dizzy yet you know once in a while, 576 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.920 and he just you know, he he was very fortunate, 577 00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:51.240 you know, for his earlier years that that Hulk liked him, because, 578 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.240 to be honest with it, he was you know, he 579 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.960 had a good physique, but he couldn't really he didn't 580 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.359 really have his own style, and you know, he I 581 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.079 would say he was an average worker. 582 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.480 And another thing Pulpe says in one of his books 583 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.440 actually is that he kind of got the feeling that 584 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:10.319 Verne was trying to set him up with Donna. Of course, 585 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.359 Donna went on to marry Larry. Do you remember that 586 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:12.880 at all? 587 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.759 I have no idea, but it wouldn't have surprise me. 588 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:16.839 Why not. 589 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:24.559 I just just think that, you know, that's the mentality 590 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:28.720 of Verne, you know, I mean, he had three daughters, 591 00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:31.039 and you know, Kathy got married and. 592 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.880 Then maybe it was Kathy NB it is Kathy. He 593 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:35.200 was trying to get set up with whoever. 594 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:41.039 Was Yeah, well Kathy wound up being married to Larry's Ebisco. 595 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:47.720 And then there was Donna and Beth, and you know, 596 00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.039 I don't know, I have really no idea. I remember 597 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:57.960 that I think the girls, you know, it was probably hard. 598 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.680 It was hard for Greg to be son Vern Guany, 599 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.960 and I imagine the girls were finding it hard too, 600 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:04.240 to be daughters. 601 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.119 Yeah, did Vern ever give Greg a hard time? Like 602 00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:11.240 you know, be uh you know, you know, like you said, 603 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.599 kind of being the son of Vern? Like, did did 604 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.519 you notice Verne ever give Greg a hard time? 605 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.680 No? But I think that Vern realized that he had 606 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:26.880 so many enemies in the wrestling business that he didn't 607 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.359 want to send Greg out. You know, I mean Greg 608 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:35.880 wrestled two weeks in New York and sparingly elsewhere, but 609 00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:38.960 he never you know, he never went to Kansas City, 610 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.839 he didn't go to North Carolina, didn't go to Texas, 611 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.319 didn't go to California or nothing, because you know, Vern 612 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:50.359 had had made himself not very well liked, you know, 613 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.680 for the twenty four other promoters and pro wrestling because 614 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.839 for one thing, they were jealous of Verne because he 615 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:00.240 was a legit champion, and another thing, he was a prick. Know, 616 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:03.920 it was a prick to the other promoters. You know, 617 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:05.519 he said, well, we're going to do it my way, 618 00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:07.319 you know, this is this, and that it was always 619 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.920 his way. So I think that Vern realized that he 620 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.039 couldn't send Greg out because you know, he had more 621 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.359 or less set a premise that if you know, Greg 622 00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.400 got out there, that you know, some of these promoters 623 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.559 that say, okay, well you know, we're just going to 624 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:27.559 rough up Greg, you know, because we can't do it 625 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.960 to his dad. So and and I appreciate that too. 626 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.920 I thought it was good that he didn't because there 627 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.480 was a lot of animosity about Vern, you know, in 628 00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.480 the different territories. 629 00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.680 That he had such a wide geographical footprint that he 630 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.319 felt very confident that he could force his way. Was 631 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.519 it did he try to like skim people on money? 632 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.000 Why did he have that reputation with the other promoters. 633 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.920 Well, I think it was the fact that he you know, 634 00:33:56.039 --> 00:34:00.799 he was a national champion three times and credentials. Yeah, 635 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.160 he was. He was and he you know, he he 636 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:06.319 sort of you know, had that chip on his shoulder 637 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:12.440 and and you know, he was I knew him, and 638 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:14.960 I thought, you know what, I'm just going to stay 639 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.320 away from him. You know, he's my boss. I'm just 640 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:20.800 going to you know, tolerate and see what, you know, 641 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.440 see our best I can do this, and then you know, 642 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.920 hopefully I'll be able to you know, make a decent living. 643 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.159 And then finally I just told him, I said, I 644 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.639 got to leave. So you know, I booked myself down 645 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.360 in Charlotte and was down there a couple of years, 646 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.760 and then you know, I came back and then you know, 647 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:41.039 to deal with Hulk. And then Hulk went to New 648 00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:44.519 York and I told him, I told, you know, Verne, 649 00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.519 I said, he, oh, I'm going to go, and he said, okay, 650 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.079 go ahead, I'll let the door hitch, and. 651 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.800 I'd say, corrected. It was it was Kathy Gune here 652 00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.760 that Hulk said Vern was trying to set him up 653 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.719 with not done. Apologies for that, you said, you said, initially, Jim, 654 00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.840 it didn't surprise you, But I didn't quite grasp why 655 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.239 that didn't surprise you, that Hulk would think he was 656 00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:03.440 trying to get set up with Kathy. 657 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:06.519 Oh, I don't know. I think he was trying to 658 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:11.320 just set up something that might be benefit to him. 659 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.239 That's really what I think. You know, Yeah, makes sense, 660 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:18.719 you know, I mean he was transactual. 661 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.559 That's the word. 662 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:20.039 Yeah. 663 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:21.880 I think you just nailed it right there. Yeah, to 664 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.679 a degree that that's the money word right there. 665 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.719 Yeah, that's it. 666 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:27.719 So we're watching these promos from back then, and man, 667 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.000 what a territory for talkers. Unbelievable stuff. I mean, the 668 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.960 whole Vince had his whole crew right there just to 669 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:35.800 pluck all these great talkers in Minneapolis. Can you take 670 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.280 us back, Jim, to promo day when you did it, 671 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.760 where you did it, how it went. Just take us 672 00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:42.119 through that part of the job. 673 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.679 Well, we actually we did a couple on sites. We 674 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:50.719 did Winnipeg TV after the matches, and then we did 675 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:54.599 because that was separate TV for the Canadian you know, companies, 676 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.760 and then we would do like on a Tuesday or 677 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:03.920 Wednesday over the Tcienna eleven and we would you know, shoot, 678 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:08.920 you know, like three hours, and then on Saturdays we 679 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:13.599 would do a couple hours and then we'd actually make 680 00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:18.039 a couple tapes and that was basically, you know, they 681 00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.719 had I don't know how many cities they had, but 682 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:24.880 you know it was, you know, probably fourteen the twenty 683 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:27.760 towns that were running pretty good. And you know, I 684 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.920 mean they had some big markets. They had Denver, and 685 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.199 they had in Minneapolis, Saint Paul's, Chicago, and Winnipeg. And 686 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.679 then Verne got himself into Toronto and then he got 687 00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.599 a partnership down in Saint Louis and you know, I 688 00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:44.480 mean it worked out good, and you know, there was 689 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.920 it was a hop and little territory. I remember, you know, 690 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:50.079 I think the most I ever made, you know, was 691 00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:52.920 a little over one hundred grand. And then you know 692 00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.679 when I went to New York, you know, they worked here, 693 00:36:55.880 --> 00:37:00.000 they worked, you know, twenty seven days a month. Brian 694 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.880 and I worked twenty seven days and months for three 695 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.639 and a half years, yeah, straight. And then you know 696 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:11.519 people were wondering why guys were having drug problems, alcohol problems, 697 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:14.440 sex problems. You know, I mean, it's just it was. 698 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:19.679 It was really incredible. You know, the work schedule we had, 699 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.440 and you know, we flew every single day. I tell 700 00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:27.440 I told us off to the pilot who was sitting 701 00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:29.840 next to me. You know. He said, oh, I see 702 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.800 all the restlus here and he says, yeah, he said, 703 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.400 where you're going. I said, well, we're going here. And 704 00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:36.079 he says, what's your schedule? Like I said, we fly 705 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.119 every day And he says, you know, it's not healthy 706 00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:40.920 to fly every day. He says, he says that the 707 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.360 pilots don't even fly every day, and I said, what 708 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:43.719 we do? 709 00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.280 Yeah, I never thought about that, like the you know, 710 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.800 with like the circulatory system and the blood. 711 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:50.159 Sure. 712 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.119 Yeah, that's not good, especially for guys that were doing 713 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:53.400 what they were doing in the eighties to be on 714 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.360 a plane every day on top of it, that didn't. 715 00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:59.440 Help, especially the ones that had to have half a 716 00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.519 plane of because they were scared of flying. 717 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:08.360 Scared. Oh yeah, yeah. There are many managers Jim Cornett 718 00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.119 talks about fear of flying. So so a promo day 719 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:13.280 would just be Geneocland standing there and just one guy 720 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:14.679 after another just step to the mic. 721 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:16.639 Yep. Wow. 722 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.079 How would you get a sense of what you were 723 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.679 going to say? What was your process? 724 00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:24.840 Well, it basically was, you know, they had a team 725 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.000 for us to work with, and then basically that team 726 00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:30.159 was the team we were going to work with and 727 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.320 you know, the majority of the cities. And if it 728 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.519 was Blackwell and Petera, if it was Bobby Duncombe and 729 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.599 Jack Lands, Nick Barckwinkle and Ray Stevens, you know, that's 730 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:45.199 what we would do. We would just you know, try 731 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.039 to get them over as a heelled team and then 732 00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:50.400 just say, hey, you know, we're going to do our 733 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.719 best and try to be as baby faced as possible, 734 00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:57.639 you know, without being braggadocious. And then you know, we 735 00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:59.559 did well. I mean, we were a good team, and 736 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.800 and Brian and I were a good team and in 737 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.960 New York, but it was just, you know, it was 738 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.920 so hard in New York because it was so so demanding. 739 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.039 And then you know, we did everything but get the 740 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.480 belts and Well, to be honest with, Vince never liked me, 741 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.320 and and consequently, you know, I didn't like him. We 742 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.280 wound up suing him for the and we took a 743 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:26.559 substantial amount of money from him. And then also, and 744 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:31.760 I haven't told this so many people, but when when 745 00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:36.719 I left Minnesota, I got to New York, and you know, 746 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.719 I did a couple of interviews and it's funny, We're 747 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:44.000 in Poughkeepsie the first first day and they Jean did 748 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:47.320 an interview with me, and you know, I'm a babyface interview. 749 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:50.159 There's I'm not you know, I'm not feuding with anybody. 750 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:55.599 And I did this, you know, rather babyface interview. And 751 00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:58.559 when I was done, as I was walking away, Vince says, 752 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:00.159 oh god, we got another back. 753 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:03.559 That's a shot. 754 00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:07.000 That's that's what I heard. And then I thought, well, 755 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.280 Becklan's been the champion for two and a half years. 756 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.079 I'll take that. 757 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.199 But that's the way it was, you know, And I thought, 758 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.000 oh Jesus, you know, oh god, it was just you know, 759 00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.760 and it was hard and thank God. I mean, you know, 760 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:24.639 you know, Dean Oakland was the best there was and 761 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.320 and and this is something that I mentioned to a 762 00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:31.320 lot of people. A lot of people ask me who 763 00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.360 was the greatest personality all around wrestler in the business 764 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:38.519 during your time? And I said, you know what I said, 765 00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:41.360 I'm going to tell you what Hulk Hogan said on 766 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.719 that same question. And they asked hul Hogan who was 767 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.840 the best all around wrestler and he said, Bobby Heenan. 768 00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:53.239 He said that guy was incredible. I mean, he he he, 769 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:57.039 you know, he he knew the business inside out. And 770 00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.360 he just knew what to do. His timing was great, 771 00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.840 is you know, his interviews were spectacular. And then you know, 772 00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.960 he just played the part so well and he was 773 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:10.199 just magnificent. And you know, one time he had four 774 00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.320 or five guys that he was representing, you know, and 775 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.840 he'd do interviews and he was he was he was something. 776 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:20.440 He used to hate to fly small planes. 777 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:22.920 Right, yeah, well some small planes. 778 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:26.400 Yes, we had five nine one or five nine nine 779 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:26.960 one niner. 780 00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.559 They call it death force one or something like suicidal. 781 00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:35.719 Well here's here's what Pampero Firpul, the wild Bull of 782 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:38.519 the pumpaus. Yes, one time we were talking, we had 783 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.239 a meeting, and he said to Vern, he says, he says, 784 00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:44.800 I don't like that plane. He says, it reminds me 785 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.000 of a flying coffin. 786 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.840 Did Hulk ever take the plane? 787 00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.400 Very so he flew? You know, first of all, he 788 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:56.840 was too big to find that plane, you know, I 789 00:41:56.840 --> 00:42:00.159 mean we we had like five or six guys, and 790 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.679 then Backwinkle was co pilot because he could fly, thank god, 791 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.000 and then our regular pilot. But you know, a Hulk 792 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.880 more or less, you know, they wanted him to fly. 793 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.960 You know, he flew first class everywhere. Yeah, rightly, So 794 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:17.280 you know, I mean that damn plane would have been 795 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:18.440 way too small for him. 796 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:20.840 Yeah, so he would take in the a W A 797 00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:24.239 Hulk would take commercial airlines. Yes, I got it. Okay, fascinating. 798 00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.239 So on those promo days, is Hulk watching other wrestlers 799 00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:29.239 do promos? Like, did you guys watch each other too? 800 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.920 We all, I'll tell you what it was. It was 801 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:36.400 like the ring was set up and there was some 802 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.360 rows of chairs on one side of the ring, and 803 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.840 then then there was an alley way where they had 804 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.239 that you know, the setup and the backdrop and the 805 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.039 curtains for the interview, and then they had jeans standing 806 00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:53.800 in the middle and then the heels would sit on one 807 00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:57.159 side and the baby babyface sit on the other. And 808 00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:59.239 then you know, when they knew they were coming up, 809 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.559 they'd read out the order bah blah blah blah blah blah. 810 00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.960 You know, you know, they just come up and then 811 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.320 they do you know, Chicago, or they do Milwaukee, or 812 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.840 they do you know Saint Paul Minneapolis, and then they 813 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.800 just go right down and we were done, you know, 814 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.360 in probably two hours, and then then had the Restalan 815 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:21.840 on TV. And then getting a small plane or commercial 816 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:25.440 and flight either Milwaukee, Chicago or Green Bay and do 817 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:26.159 a house show. 818 00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:28.559 Did you see like Verne or Greg or anybody like 819 00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:30.639 be hands on with Hulk? Like, all right, this is 820 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:33.039 because everyone talks about how he changes style. JP talked 821 00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.639 about it already when he's in Awa and starts understanding 822 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.760 of Babyface promo. Do you remember seeing that ever, like 823 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:40.360 in practice of Hulp being kind of coached along on 824 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:41.239 how to change the way. 825 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:45.119 No, No, he whatever he did. Vern liked it because 826 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:46.800 it was drawing great money. 827 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:50.639 Yeah, but he was in a position. Hulk was in 828 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.840 a position to kind of author it. 829 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.840 Yeah, oh yes he was. He was his own man. 830 00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:58.960 There's an interview getting outside help at all and. 831 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.719 He no, I don't know. No, I think you know, 832 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:04.840 Nick Barckwinkel might have talked to him a little bit, 833 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:08.760 but it was it was, you know, not to the 834 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:11.280 point where he was saying, hey, do it this way 835 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:14.039 or you know, it was just something that he'd add 836 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:15.800 that would add to the interview. 837 00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:18.639 There's one with him and Jean where Jeans holding the 838 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:21.440 mic and helps his shades on and he goes, oh, yeah, 839 00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.079 I'm on a roll and Jean says, you've been on 840 00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.599 a roll all day and you can you can tell 841 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.400 they're talking about cocaine. I mean's very clear. 842 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.519 Well, that used to be prevalent, but then all of 843 00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:33.960 a sudden, I mean not they were all. You know. 844 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:38.519 That was one of the worst things about w w 845 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:41.280 fis because they worked us so hard at it, you know, 846 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:44.519 and guys were you know, always either using you know, 847 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:48.599 any amphetamines or coke or whatever it was to get 848 00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.519 him through the night, you know. And then when I 849 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:55.400 was rolling, Jim Duggan got got in Masbury Bark, you know, 850 00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:57.639 with an eight ball of coke. That was pretty hard 851 00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:01.599 to explain, and neither one of them got fired. 852 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:03.639 Look, I mean, Jim, I get it for you know, 853 00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:05.880 getting through the night, but I also think it would 854 00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.679 help you on those promos to come in a little bust, right, Well. 855 00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.840 I think so. And and there was a lot of 856 00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:14.920 anthetmines too, you know. I mean there was a dexagreene 857 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:17.519 and all, you know, and then the guys would break 858 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:21.039 them in half. And you know, originally when you drove, 859 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.480 we drove everywhere, Yeah, I mean we and you know, 860 00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:26.320 we had a couple of guys that fell asleep and 861 00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.119 got killed, you know, in a car accident. And then 862 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:31.559 some of the doctors would say, you know, I don't 863 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.000 want that to happen to me, So you know, they'd 864 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.880 give them a script for you know, five milligram dexagene, 865 00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:39.519 you know, twenty or thirty of them, and you know, 866 00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:42.039 just say, hey, you know, I'm doing this for you, 867 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.760 but don't abuse it, you know, So everybody abused it. 868 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.159 So well, yeah, it's it definitely helped with those promos 869 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:49.719 because I mean. 870 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.559 Oh godness, yeah. 871 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.039 Some of them are just so wild and you can't 872 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.119 imagine them in the right mind coming off that way. 873 00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:59.719 Jesse years later did an interview with a Grand Bessinger, 874 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.719 and heind of talked about how, like Hulk was, Hulk 875 00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.639 could get you some stuff in the aw a days, 876 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:06.519 like he knew how to get help me get your 877 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.400 hands on I guess presumably steroids, but maybe other drugs. 878 00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:11.519 Was that part of the deal, Do you remember kind 879 00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:12.920 of having connections? 880 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:16.199 You know what I will I will say this, and 881 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.840 this is the honest truth. I never saw Hulk. I 882 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.159 know he used to smoke a lot of weed, yes, 883 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:24.000 but and that was his main deal. 884 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.280 Never know this isn't a secret. 885 00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:30.039 Yeah, yeah, but I never you know, and I know 886 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.800 that you know, he used a lot of steroids, you know, 887 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:36.760 and he connections from La you know, at the Golds 888 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:38.920 gym that you know, would take care of him. But 889 00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:44.360 as far as anything else, cocaine, you know, and he's sleeping, pills, 890 00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:48.880 pain pills, nothing. I never saw him, you know, talk 891 00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:51.159 to anybody about him or asked about it. It was, 892 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.599 you know, it was just you know, he liked to smoke. 893 00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:59.400 He smoked that weed. And and then he had confided 894 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:01.920 in me once one time he got a little carried 895 00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.880 away with the blow and he said, I realized that, 896 00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:07.159 you know, I'm not I won't be able to do 897 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:10.559 that because it, you know, sort of overtakes me. 898 00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:15.199 Oh I see, so he went a little too far. Okay, Yeah, 899 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.039 was that A W A Days or WWF do you remember? Roughly? 900 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:20.519 I think it was before the A W A days even. 901 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:25.079 Before Okay, so something already happened. Yeah, we talk about Gene. 902 00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:27.480 What would he What would he do? I mean just 903 00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.480 a classic, I mean, there will never be another. What 904 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.320 would he do? To help you along? In interviews and 905 00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:34.559 the boys, like what role did he play that maybe 906 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:36.599 we don't appreciate his fans to get you guys to 907 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:37.039 do good. 908 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.719 Promos, well, he would guide you through the promo if 909 00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:42.960 you were if you know, you know, he would you know, 910 00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.760 if say, for instance, I was wrestling Jerry Blackwell, he'd 911 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:49.400 you know, talk about Jerry Blackwell's size and his demeanor 912 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.400 and then he would guide you through the interview and 913 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.280 I say, now, what are you going to do? You know, 914 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.360 if he's four hundred pounds, if he does this, how 915 00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.039 are you going to counter that? I mean, he he 916 00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:03.079 he helped everybody you know where and see you know, 917 00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:06.199 you know, Jim, what are you gonna do against you know, 918 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:10.840 Jerry Blackwell? You know he would he would preface it 919 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:15.440 with a couple of sentences about strategy or whatever. And 920 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:16.840 that's why he was the greatest. 921 00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:19.519 Yeah, yeah, you're asolute, right, yeah, because you know, it's 922 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.159 hard for us as fans to tell like what you 923 00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.599 guys are expecting to hear from Gene or whoever's holding 924 00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:26.079 the stick and what actually is improved and fed to 925 00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:28.559 you to get you to respond. So it's wild to 926 00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:29.960 hear that Gene would you know, come up with this 927 00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.039 stuff and you wouldn't even necessarily know it's coming, but 928 00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:33.239 lead you down a great Degrey. 929 00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.000 Yeah, he was. He was one in a million. Two. 930 00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:39.440 I'm so glad you mentioned Jerry Blackwell because we were 931 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:41.920 so hungry for more detail on this on this guy, because, 932 00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:44.360 come to find out, as you might recall, he was 933 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.280 absolutely pivotal to getting Hulk over as a baby face 934 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:50.599 in the AWA. Hulk comes in, saves Brad Ringins from 935 00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.760 a beatdown in Milwaukee from Blackwell, body slaves bat Blackwell, 936 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:57.920 and from then on until freaking nineteen ninety six, Hulk's 937 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.320 the biggest baby face in the world. What what can 938 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.239 you tell us about Jerry Blackwell? What he was like, 939 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.920 what was his good traits, his bad traits? And Hulk 940 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.760 using Blackwell's position in the company at the time to 941 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:09.920 just skyrocket. 942 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:16.880 Hang on here, I'm going to coughin. Jerry Blackwell was 943 00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:20.920 you know, I don't think he went past ninth grade. 944 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:24.039 And you know, he was six feet and four hundred pounds, 945 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:27.039 and he was a Georgia boy or whoever he was, 946 00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:32.039 and he was just you know, he he had great, 947 00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:36.119 great timing in the ring, and you know, for a 948 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:40.719 guy four hundred pounds, he could move and he had 949 00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:44.199 he had good psychology, and he got over very well. 950 00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:48.119 And he you know, he knew that when he was 951 00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:50.280 dealing with Hulk that you know, if he had a 952 00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.239 good match, he's going to make a lot of money. 953 00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:56.960 So that's what happened. And you know, they they went 954 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:01.599 around and and they had great match. And you know, 955 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:04.400 Jerry was the type of guy that you know, even 956 00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:08.280 though he was here, you know, big in terms of 957 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.480 being squatty, you know, he could still take bumps and 958 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:13.440 he'd take bumps for a hook and let him slam 959 00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:17.159 him and back drop him and everything else. And and 960 00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.480 they just had a great match. 961 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.440 Really did so, Jim, please let us know if you 962 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:24.639 if you if you have to go. We got a 963 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:26.559 couple more, but I don't want to abuse the privilege. 964 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.760 Oh I got a couple. I got about ten more minutes. 965 00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:31.039 Okay, wonderful, JP. You want to jump into anything. 966 00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:32.639 I do need to know. 967 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:35.840 I wanted to go back to uh to spending time 968 00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:37.960 at the at the house in Lake Minnetonka. 969 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:38.639 Yeah. 970 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:41.679 What were what were dinners like at the at the 971 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:43.079 at the gag the house. 972 00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:48.440 Well, Mary Guanya, Verne's wife was a hell of a cook, 973 00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.760 and they had a beautiful house, honestly, gud, I mean 974 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:56.000 it was. It was probably a million and a half dollars, 975 00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:58.079 you know, and it was right on the lake shore 976 00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:00.400 and they had, you know, two hundred feet of lake 977 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:03.079 shore and it was right on Lake Minnetonka, and they 978 00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:06.880 had like three boats. And I remember going over there 979 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:09.559 a couple of times and I got holy smokes, you know. 980 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:12.920 I mean they're sit down dinners, you know, and they 981 00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:19.039 had a real nice, real nice you know, just they 982 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:22.039 bought out to find china and they impressed me. I 983 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.280 mean it was nice and I appreciated the fact. And 984 00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:28.119 you know, like ver Insu's, you know, he was cooking 985 00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:31.119 steak and they had these little filets that were probably 986 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:33.519 four ounces, and he says, go ahead, have so I 987 00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:37.960 had like four of them, you know, because I loved 988 00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:40.440 filet and they were done. He had it. He hired 989 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:42.800 a cook to cook him and the cook them and 990 00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:47.280 then he had lobster on the other barbecue, and you know, 991 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.239 he'd just say, if you want to beer, fine, a 992 00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:51.440 glass of wine, fine, but you know, don't overdo it. 993 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.440 So I, you know, I have a glass of wine. 994 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:58.559 But he was he was very cordial, and you know, 995 00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:02.039 he was a kind and he was a smart guy, 996 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:05.239 and he knew what he had to do to cement 997 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.119 the relationship between him and his talent, and he did it. 998 00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.440 That was part of it. The house visits. That's what 999 00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.679 we're so lucky that The Wrestler got made in nineteen 1000 00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:17.519 seventy four with that asner because we can see it. Yes, 1001 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.840 Verne puts that in the movie. You know, you guys 1002 00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:22.400 are all sitting at the table. He says, my wife 1003 00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:24.679 makes great lamb chops. Was that one of Mary's specialties? 1004 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:29.480 You remember? It probably was yeah, little little mint jelly maybe. 1005 00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:32.400 Or no, oh god, yes, And you know, I got 1006 00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:34.519 to tell you there was a place in Winnipeg. It 1007 00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:37.159 was called High Steak Lost and it's in Toronto and 1008 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.559 I think Montreal, and their specialty was wreck a lamb 1009 00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.039 and we Greg and I would split one and then 1010 00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:49.599 we each have one and then would split a third. 1011 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:53.719 And it was absolutely to die for god, it was 1012 00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.679 so good. And they had mint jelly, yeah, and it 1013 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:00.559 was just and I remember, well, here's another deal too 1014 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:03.519 up in Winnipeg. And and Verne was generous, even though 1015 00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:05.840 you know, he was the promoter and they had a 1016 00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:09.239 record house there and they had I think there was 1017 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:12.079 fourteen guys that he had at high stake left and 1018 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.079 Andrea was on the cart, and they had the biggest 1019 00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:16.679 house they ever had. It was two hundred and some 1020 00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:20.000 one thousand dollars, you know, and usually you know, a 1021 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.519 good house there was you know, eighty five to ninety 1022 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:28.320 five thousand, but this was over two hundred and so 1023 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.800 Andre who was a wine lover, and they had the 1024 00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:35.320 special wine up. There was a sparkling rose. It was 1025 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:40.360 called Royal Dunaville. They drank twenty four bottles of it 1026 00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:45.679 at that table. God, yeah, it was like thirty bucks 1027 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:46.480 a bottle. 1028 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:47.599 And normal behavior. 1029 00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:51.119 And Andre must have he must have drank three himself. 1030 00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:54.519 And it was I you know, as a matter of fact, 1031 00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:56.960 I fancied this damn wine too. And every time I could, 1032 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:59.159 I try to, you know, bring home as much as 1033 00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:01.920 they could, you know, as the customs, you know, and 1034 00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:04.880 sometimes they'd only let's to have a bible of it 1035 00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:06.880 or you know, and then then you had to put 1036 00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:08.880 it in your bag. You couldn't carry it on. So 1037 00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:12.519 but it was you know, and that's and Thurn was 1038 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.440 generous you know in that respect, you know, And everybody 1039 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:17.679 you know, had a great time, and then you know, 1040 00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:22.119 they'd say, well, let's wait until we get paid, but 1041 00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:23.440 go ahead. 1042 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:25.920 Yeah, the story of Hulk and AWA two is like 1043 00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.559 he came in Rocky three, was going and that any 1044 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.360 catapult to a whole other level. But the truth is 1045 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.880 the movie didn't come out until May of nineteen eighty two, 1046 00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.760 and he came into Minneapolis in August nineteen eighty one, 1047 00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.960 so he was already turned face super over, one of 1048 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:41.840 the biggest hands in the territory and in the country 1049 00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:43.800 at the time before the movie even hit the screens. 1050 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.760 Do you remember how much of a difference it made 1051 00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:50.519 that that movie came out to how over Hulk was, you. 1052 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:55.480 Know what I think it added, but he was already there. 1053 00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.760 I mean, the people, the wrestling fans, you know, and 1054 00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:01.800 not that they don't go to MOVI, but they probably 1055 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:04.519 went to the movie to see Hulk COVID, you know, 1056 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:07.400 the wrestling fans did, and it just sort of compounded 1057 00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:11.320 his you know, his fans in terms of him being 1058 00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:15.440 over you know, he just you know, the people would 1059 00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:18.679 I mean when when when I used to bring him 1060 00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.800 to these little nightclubs and the spand our friends were 1061 00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.320 playing that. How could come in there and they you know, 1062 00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:27.559 he'd have to have the they'd have to have special 1063 00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:30.880 guards around him, you know, because you know, people would 1064 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:34.000 always want pictures and sign autographs and everything. And then 1065 00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:39.079 and then how could come up and down going through 1066 00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:41.480 those changes? And he played the bass. I'm trying to 1067 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:44.400 think of the of the guy who made that popular. 1068 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:47.320 But so you're saying Hulk in these night clubs would 1069 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:48.800 take grab the bass and play it, or. 1070 00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:50.679 Yeah, he grabbed the bass guitar. 1071 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:53.239 Well, that must have been so fascinating to see him 1072 00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:55.239 get that over. I mean, did did it feel different 1073 00:55:55.480 --> 00:55:57.360 walking into a club with him versus anybody else in? 1074 00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:02.000 Oh? God? Yes, he was, you know, I mean he was. 1075 00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.039 He was like having Bruce Springsteen walking into the bar 1076 00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.639 with you, you know, yeah, I mean he was just 1077 00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:12.239 the people love them. 1078 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.000 What was it, Jim? I mean, you're such a respected, 1079 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.239 longtime veteran, You've been to so many places, you've seen 1080 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:20.320 guys get over. Why did the fans just say, even 1081 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:22.239 though he was presented as a heel at first, this 1082 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:22.840 is our guy. 1083 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:28.519 I think he had he had a little bit of 1084 00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:33.679 humility that he showed, and I think along with the 1085 00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:37.800 you know, the persona of you know, being Hull Cogan. 1086 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:41.519 You know, he mixed in that little bit of humanity 1087 00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:49.000 that that people saw in him and you know realized that, hey, 1088 00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:49.639 he's one of. 1089 00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:54.360 Us, one of us, but also someone quite special. So 1090 00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.800 Jim Brenzel, unbelievable reflections on the aw eightt the time 1091 00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:01.000 Hulk arrives. You've helped the much understand what it was 1092 00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:03.360 like in that territory at a pivotal point for this one 1093 00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.480 of a kind career. And we can't thank you enough 1094 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:06.599 for giving us some time. 1095 00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:09.800 Well, I appreciate it. It's always fun to talk about that. 1096 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:12.559 And carry was a wonderful guy. And I missed his 1097 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.960 funeral because my wife and I had a fiftieth anniversary 1098 00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:18.639 up in Canada. We were on a cruise and then 1099 00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:21.360 I came back and I found out that he passed. 1100 00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.840 And then a day later I got COVID and I 1101 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:27.360 couldn't go down there, and I was just sick because 1102 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.679 he was such a close friend. And you know, I 1103 00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:33.559 talked to I didn't talk to Linda, but I talked 1104 00:57:33.559 --> 00:57:37.239 to you know, Brian, who was probably one of Oaks's 1105 00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:42.079 closest friends. And I just said hey, you know, tell 1106 00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:44.639 everybody I'm sorry. I couldn't make it, but Mary and I, 1107 00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:47.840 you know, I got COVID, so I felt bad. And 1108 00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:50.199 you know, everybody asked about him, and I said, hey, 1109 00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:53.719 he was what he was. He was, you know, the 1110 00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:57.880 greatest performer of my air in the ring