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<v Speaker 1>On the morning of June thirteenth, twenty sixteen, a young

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen year old man left his home in Perth, Australia

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<v Speaker 1>to help someone he knew fix a computer. He was trusting, intelligent,

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<v Speaker 1>and unaware that the visit had been carefully planned for weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>and by the end of the day he would be dead,

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<v Speaker 1>and the investigation into his disappearance would uncover one of

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<v Speaker 1>Western Australia's most jaw droppingly cruel and disturbing crimes. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the story of Aaron Lee Pajeech. Sweetman, my name is.

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<v Speaker 2>Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim,

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<v Speaker 2>a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Warning. The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience.

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<v Speaker 2>Listener discretions. Ees, we just had a very good laugh

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<v Speaker 2>we did over here. We did it shows our immaturity,

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<v Speaker 2>oh man, I think it started with your immaturity.

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<v Speaker 1>Though, what okay? To be fair? To be fair, we

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<v Speaker 1>were having squabbles, marital squabbles in a fun way, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>where we're goofing and that sort of thing with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>And I took a little cloth to like clean glasses with,

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<v Speaker 1>and I tossed it in Nicole's face, but her face

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<v Speaker 1>was sitting right beside the microphone because we were doing

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<v Speaker 1>mic testing, and it made the best splat sound. And

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<v Speaker 1>then so I was laughing, and I gave it to

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<v Speaker 1>Nicole so she could throw it in my face and

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<v Speaker 1>then she made the splat sound and she was laughing.

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<v Speaker 1>It was it was a great way.

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<v Speaker 2>You were like, I wish life had good sound effects

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I do wish because like it obviously makes a sound,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not generally audible. Things like that. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>the mic being right there, it was almost like a

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<v Speaker 1>real life cartoon. It was.

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<v Speaker 2>You were laughing so freaking hard.

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<v Speaker 1>It was good.

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<v Speaker 2>You were laughing too well, mostly because it was just

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<v Speaker 2>like the fuck.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you were really offended at first, but I threw

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<v Speaker 1>the rag in your face, but then I passed it

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<v Speaker 1>to you when you were happy that you had your chance,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you started laughing your ass off when you

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<v Speaker 1>got me in the face.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Is it normal? Do other people like

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<v Speaker 2>flip each other off more in a day than they

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<v Speaker 2>would say? I love you? Is that normal?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? Usually follow it up with.

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<v Speaker 2>An I love you or something, which is yeah, we yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's funny. In here. I think some people would probably

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<v Speaker 2>think we have some serious issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably, but but it works. It works somehow, it works.

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<v Speaker 1>Something else that really works is Patreon. You can go over,

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<v Speaker 1>you can get some behind the scenes content, you can

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<v Speaker 1>get extra episodes and support this podcast. Just like Kelsey

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<v Speaker 1>Queen by Polar b, Timoth, The Crystal Hodge, Leslie Lipper,

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<v Speaker 1>and Chelsea Buszard t Bow, They've all signed up on

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<v Speaker 1>Patreon and they get their little shout out because hey,

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<v Speaker 1>they're super cool and they support us.

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<v Speaker 2>Fantastic, Right, that's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to know what else is fantastic? The

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we got a shout out in an article

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<v Speaker 1>today a website called feed spot featured us in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>best Victim Stories Podcasts and we rounded out at number

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<v Speaker 1>three on the list, And I thought that was really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it's a super big deal because that's something

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<v Speaker 2>we try to do.

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<v Speaker 1>We do and it's so it's kind of interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>as we started the podcast, we wanted to do that

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<v Speaker 1>focus on that a little bit more, right, But as

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast aged, as we kind of learned what we're doing,

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<v Speaker 1>we learned how to tell the stories better and really

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<v Speaker 1>portray the stories from the victims, Well, what the.

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<v Speaker 2>Monsters get the attention that they do. It's just I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, it doesn't really make sense. I know, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when and a monster does has killed like a one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred people, it's pretty hard not to have that focus

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<v Speaker 2>on them. But like, generally you can take it off

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<v Speaker 2>of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely. There's times where, yeah, we center around perpetrators and

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<v Speaker 1>that's the life of true crime and that's how kind

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<v Speaker 1>of how it goes. Yeah, but when you can tell

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<v Speaker 1>victim stories, we're always happy to do so. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>really nice to see that recognition coming in for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really great.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also have one more thing I want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, Oh wow, you're full of beans.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm full of like news today almost. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>give a shout out to Sweden, Chechia, and Canada for

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<v Speaker 1>their placing in the World Junior's Hockey Tournament. Sweden got cold, Chechia,

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<v Speaker 1>I got silver, and Canada got bronze. Well done to

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<v Speaker 1>everyone who participated in the tournament. You all did absolutely amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, not everyone's into hockey. We like it. We're

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<v Speaker 1>Canadian a little stereotypical that way, I guess, but I

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<v Speaker 1>just wanted to put that out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was some damn good hockey. It was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it well just to kind of say, like all of

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<v Speaker 2>the players were under twenty pretty much kids, and they

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<v Speaker 2>just like put their heart on the ice and it

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<v Speaker 2>was really good to watch. They all did awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Most these kids are already drafted into the NHL and everything,

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<v Speaker 1>and if not, they're going to be basically so it's

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<v Speaker 1>young NHL upcoming stars and to see them go out

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<v Speaker 1>and give it all in the ice for their country

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<v Speaker 1>is incredible. And now we got the Olympics that are

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<v Speaker 1>going to be coming up soon too, so it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a wild season of hockey this year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But I even was texting my sister, I'm like

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<v Speaker 2>I was less stress a less stressful person before I

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<v Speaker 2>really dove into watching sports so much, because like watching

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<v Speaker 2>that Canada game where we you know, were if we won,

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<v Speaker 2>we would go into the to be able to win

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<v Speaker 2>gold and we lost. That was just like devastating anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>one of those players though, yeah, I know.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, we got it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the name of the.

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<v Speaker 1>Game, that's true, it is. But anyways, I just wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to give a shout out to them because they they

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<v Speaker 1>earned it and did an incredible, incredible job. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think with that, if there's nothing else you

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about, I'm ready to move on to

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<v Speaker 1>today's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so ready.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you ready?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready?

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<v Speaker 1>On a scale of one to ten? How ready are you?

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<v Speaker 2>Thirteen? Oh? You got it? Okay. I was like, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>It take me so long because I'm like, shit, oh, thing,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the thing. What am I supposed to say?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so proudy high five for that. You nailed that job. Okay. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>if Nicole's on a scale of one to ten, a thirteen,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're ready to go into this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>We sure are so.

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<v Speaker 1>Broughton Way is the kind of street people forget about

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<v Speaker 1>soon is you know, they turn around the corner off

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<v Speaker 1>of it. It runs quietly through Aurelia, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>suburb of Perth, the capital of Western Australia, where days

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<v Speaker 1>tend to, you know, follow a very predictable rhythm. Here,

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<v Speaker 1>cars leave in the morning, they return in the afternoon.

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<v Speaker 1>Garbage bins are rolled out, lawns are watered, and neighbors

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<v Speaker 1>nod in passing, you know, rarely lingering in conversation. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no reason to stop, no reason to look twice. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>House number twenty two zat comfortably within that normal space.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a modest brown brick house with a small

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<v Speaker 1>front yard and a narrow driveway, indistinguishable from the others

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<v Speaker 1>that lined the street. There were no signs that would

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<v Speaker 1>suggest anything out of the ordinary here. It was the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of place people passed every single day without ever

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<v Speaker 1>registering it at all. Now, later, after everything came to

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<v Speaker 1>light on this story, some neighbors would try to remember

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<v Speaker 1>if they had noticed anything strange. Most, in fact, hadn't.

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<v Speaker 1>The house hadn't drawn attention. It just simply blended in perfectly.

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<v Speaker 1>The most noticeable feature was the presence of security cameras

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<v Speaker 1>mounted around the exterior of the home, which were in

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<v Speaker 1>place to help protect motorcycles that were kept on the property.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing about that house suggested that it would soon become

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<v Speaker 1>the focus of a homicide investigation. Now, in the morning

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<v Speaker 1>of June thirteenth, twenty sixteen, eighteen year old Aaron Pageech

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<v Speaker 1>walked through the gate and into number twenty too without

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<v Speaker 1>any hesitation. Aaron was a bit of a small individual

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<v Speaker 1>for his age, and he was quiet and unfailingly polite.

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<v Speaker 1>You see, he lived with autism and was on that spectrum,

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<v Speaker 1>something that kind of shaped how he understood the world

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<v Speaker 1>around him and people that were in it. He was

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<v Speaker 1>trusting by nature. He never assumed the worst in others

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<v Speaker 1>because the worst has never been part of how he

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<v Speaker 1>related to them. He loved computers and video games and

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<v Speaker 1>fixing things that didn't work, so when someone asked him

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<v Speaker 1>for help with something technical, he rarely said no. Helping

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<v Speaker 1>to him, you know, it just made him feel useful, capable,

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<v Speaker 1>and included. That morning, he believed he was doing exactly that,

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<v Speaker 1>helping someone he knew install software on a computer. The

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<v Speaker 1>invitation came from someone familiar, someone he'd known for years,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, so there was no reason that he shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>be able to trust this person. He arrived expecting a

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<v Speaker 1>normal visit with a short task and then a try home.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron had no way of knowing that this was the

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<v Speaker 1>last place that he would ever go. When he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>return home that day, his phone went unanswered and messages

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<v Speaker 1>weren't returned. People told themselves there were explanations for this,

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<v Speaker 1>that he simply stayed out longer than planned, or he

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<v Speaker 1>forgot to check in, that he would turn up soon enough,

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<v Speaker 1>But as the hours stretched into days, a missing person's

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<v Speaker 1>report was filed and police began their work following the

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<v Speaker 1>last confirmed movements before he went missing. That day, phone

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<v Speaker 1>records were checked, CCTV footage was reviewed, Names and locations

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<v Speaker 1>were you know, gone over, and slowly, inevitably, the same

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<v Speaker 1>address began to surface. It was on Broaton Way and

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<v Speaker 1>when police showed up to number twenty two, there was

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<v Speaker 1>still no certainty, just details that didn't quite sit right.

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<v Speaker 1>Explanations they were beginning to you know, be given. They

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<v Speaker 1>felt thin. And in the backyard after a search, something

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<v Speaker 1>stood out. The backyard was recently altered. There was a

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<v Speaker 1>section of concrete that looked new, even rushed. After a

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<v Speaker 1>week of Erin's disappearance, officers returned to this house, this

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<v Speaker 1>time with forensic teams. The concrete was broken apart in

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<v Speaker 1>the search, and what police uncovered there would change the

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<v Speaker 1>case entirely. Because this was not a disappearance, This was

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<v Speaker 1>not an accident. What investigators were beginning to uncover was

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<v Speaker 1>something far colder, a killing that was anticipated, a killing

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<v Speaker 1>that was discussed and prepared for long before Aaron even

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<v Speaker 1>stepped through the front gates. Of that home. This is

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<v Speaker 1>when a quiet house on an unremarkable street became the

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<v Speaker 1>setting for a murder that should never have happened in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place. Now it all began on June thirteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen, in Rockingham, Western Australia. This Monday morning didn't

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<v Speaker 1>feel special. It didn't have a bunch of bad weather

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<v Speaker 1>in the forecast, or any sort of urgency or anything

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<v Speaker 1>that would later stand out. It was simply just another

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<v Speaker 1>quiet start to the week, the kind of morning where

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<v Speaker 1>people were heading to work, grabbing coffee and thinking of

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<v Speaker 1>nothing more than what they had ahead of them, or

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps maybe not even thinking much, but instead shutting their

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<v Speaker 1>brains down, going into that autopilot mode in preparation for

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<v Speaker 1>that workday. Amongst all the people and normal lives, there

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<v Speaker 1>was Aaron Prajch. He was eighteen years old and living

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<v Speaker 1>a small, predictable life, the kind that thrives on routine.

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<v Speaker 2>See.

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<v Speaker 1>Erin was on the autism spectrum, something that shaped how

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<v Speaker 1>he moved through the world. Social cues in particular didn't

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<v Speaker 1>always come easy to him, but he made up for

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<v Speaker 1>it in other ways. Erin was extremely gentle and polite

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<v Speaker 1>and unfailingly trusting. He loved computers and video games, and

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<v Speaker 1>if someone needed help with software or tech problems or anything,

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<v Speaker 1>Erin was usually the first to volunteer his assistance. Helping

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<v Speaker 1>people simply made sense to him. It was who he was,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you could help anyone, then why not.

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<v Speaker 2>I just have to say, that's so sad that I wish. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a very trusting person and the world we live

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<v Speaker 2>in almost like makes it feel like you can't be right,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that should be an awesome trait or quality

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<v Speaker 2>of a person, but it almost makes them vulnerable, which

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<v Speaker 2>isn't good.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, too many people take advantage of trusting individuals. Yes, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of that situation of fool me once,

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<v Speaker 1>shame on you, feel me twice, shame on me. So

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<v Speaker 1>when someone is trusting and it's taken advantage of it, say, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what you did a bad thing. Don't do

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<v Speaker 1>that right, But then I'm going to trust you again,

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<v Speaker 1>and you, you know, you take advantage of me again,

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<v Speaker 1>Shame on me. So the person starts recoiling and not

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<v Speaker 1>trusting so much anymore because they feel that it's their

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<v Speaker 1>fault when it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that's I wish people could be trusting, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and I's like I said, it just puts you at

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<v Speaker 2>risk in.

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<v Speaker 1>A way it does human nature. It can be amazing,

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<v Speaker 1>but it can also be extremely cruel. Now, at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron was renting a room from a woman named Adrian

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<v Speaker 1>Reid in Wakiki. They'd met through church earlier that year,

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<v Speaker 1>and she had taken him in as a border That morning,

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<v Speaker 1>the two sent down for breakfast together. They both ate

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<v Speaker 1>and chatted casually and got ready for their day. But

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<v Speaker 1>that's when Aaron's phone rang. It was a call from

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<v Speaker 1>a woman named Trudy Lenin and someone Aaron knew through

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<v Speaker 1>vocational studies and through her son as well. He was

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00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:32.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of friends with them. They shared a love of

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<v Speaker 1>video games and gamed a little bit. Now, Trudy asked

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<v Speaker 1>Aarin if he could come over and help install some

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<v Speaker 1>software on her computer, then afterwards they could play video games.

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<v Speaker 1>Right Adrian overheard this part of the conversation. There were

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<v Speaker 1>no red flags at all. It was casual, and when

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron hung up, she agreed to drive him to Rockingham Center,

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<v Speaker 1>where Trudy said that she was going to pick him

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<v Speaker 1>up just before ten o'clock that morning, Adrian dropped Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>off at the shop and watched him walk away, carrying

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<v Speaker 1>his iPad with him. Now this, unfortunately, was the last

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00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>time she would ever see him. Security cameras later showed

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron waiting in the car parking lot, standing calmly, exactly

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<v Speaker 1>where he said he'd be. Rockingham Center was already busy

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<v Speaker 1>by that time. Cars were moving in and out of

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00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>the car park, people crossed between shops, and nothing about

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<v Speaker 1>the scene suggested that it would later become a very

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00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:32.399
<v Speaker 1>crucial piece of a murder investigation. Aaron waited here just

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<v Speaker 1>like he said he would. He stood near the parking

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00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:38.720
<v Speaker 1>law holding his iPad, very calm and very patient. There

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00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:42.000
<v Speaker 1>was no signs of anxiety because to him this was

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<v Speaker 1>just another chance to help with a computer problem, maybe

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00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>spend some time gaming afterwards with people that he knew.

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<v Speaker 1>Security cameras captured the moment that would later be replayed

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00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:57.759
<v Speaker 1>again and again. A car pulled up. Two people were inside,

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<v Speaker 1>Trudy Lennon and her roommate Gemma Lily. Aaron approached the

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle and opened the door and simply got in the car,

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00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.279
<v Speaker 1>then pulled away from the shopping center. And merged back

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<v Speaker 1>into traffic. No one noticed that this happened in the intersection,

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<v Speaker 1>It blended into the crowd of people in the cars.

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<v Speaker 1>There was no reason that this should stand out, because

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<v Speaker 1>for all intents and purposes, this was normal.

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<v Speaker 2>And what was supposed to happen exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>People were getting in cars, people were driving away. All

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00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:33.559
<v Speaker 1>of this was normal. Investigators would soon review that security

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00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.320
<v Speaker 1>footage in their investigation, and soon they understood that this

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00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.360
<v Speaker 1>was the last moment that Erin was ever seen alive

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00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.879
<v Speaker 1>in public. For now though, it was simply a quiet

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00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:49.279
<v Speaker 1>exchange in the busy parking lot. But to understand what

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00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.799
<v Speaker 1>happened to Erin, you first have to understand the two

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00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.440
<v Speaker 1>women that were in that car and the private world

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00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.759
<v Speaker 1>that they had built together behind the front door of

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00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:02.480
<v Speaker 1>a small unit in Aralia. Gemma Lily had arrived in

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00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:05.879
<v Speaker 1>Australia years earlier, carrying with her a past than never

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00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.519
<v Speaker 1>quite stayed behind her. See, she was originally from England

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00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.039
<v Speaker 1>and had moved to Perth as a teenager, eager for

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00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.159
<v Speaker 1>a fresh start. On the surface, she blended in rather easily.

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00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.279
<v Speaker 1>She worked night shifts at a supermarket, spent time at

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00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.759
<v Speaker 1>a tattoo parlor, rode a motorcycle and lived quietly in

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00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:27.639
<v Speaker 1>the southern suburbs. But beneath that ordinary exterior was a

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00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:32.519
<v Speaker 1>long standing fixation on violence. From a young age, Gemma

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00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.039
<v Speaker 1>had been drawn to horror films, serial killers, and stories

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00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:41.120
<v Speaker 1>built around suffering and control. She wrote obsessively, creating a

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00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.519
<v Speaker 1>fictional character named Sos, a character who wasn't just a villain,

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00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.840
<v Speaker 1>but also a kind of an alter ego for her,

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00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.799
<v Speaker 1>a powerful, feared, and admired one. Now, over time, Sos

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00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.759
<v Speaker 1>became more more than a character on a page and

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00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:01.039
<v Speaker 1>became something that she talked about, referenced, and even embodied. Now.

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00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Trudy Lenin came into Jemma's life in twenty sixteen. She

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00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.680
<v Speaker 1>was older, a mother of three, and studying at Vocational College,

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00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.319
<v Speaker 1>which is where she met Erin. Trudy had spent years

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00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.680
<v Speaker 1>on the edge of stability, struggling financially, navigating failed relationships,

316
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.319
<v Speaker 1>and seeking connection wherever she could find it. She was

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00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.920
<v Speaker 1>also deeply involved in BDSM communities, where she took into

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00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.000
<v Speaker 1>a submissive role under the name Corvina. Now, if you

319
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.839
<v Speaker 1>don't know, BDSM stands for bondage and discipline, dominance and submission,

320
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:41.319
<v Speaker 1>and sadism and masochism. Now, this is consensual sexual practices

321
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>which involved things like roleplay, dynamics centered around power, exchange,

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00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.839
<v Speaker 1>control restraints, that sort of thing. It's very intense sensations.

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00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:52.480
<v Speaker 1>It's typically summed up under simple sayings like whips and chains.

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00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.359
<v Speaker 1>Let's put it that way. Now, these two women connected

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00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:00.279
<v Speaker 1>quickly and what began as a casual friendship turned rather

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00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.279
<v Speaker 1>intense in a matter of weeks. They shared interests, secrets,

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00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>and eventually fantasies that moved far beyond anything healthy or abstract.

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00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Their dynamics settled into something clearly defined. Gemma was a

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00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.480
<v Speaker 1>dominant figure and Trudy was eager to follow as a

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00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>bit more submissive. They even adopt their chosen names in

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00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.519
<v Speaker 1>real life, Sos and Corvina, reinforcing the roles that they

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00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:28.160
<v Speaker 1>had created for one another. Now, despite this dynamic, though,

333
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.160
<v Speaker 1>it's very important for the story that there is no

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00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.119
<v Speaker 1>there's no evidence to suggest that there was a sexual

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00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:36.359
<v Speaker 1>relationship between the two.

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00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I was going to ask.

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00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.839
<v Speaker 1>There was definitely a massive power dynamic between the two,

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00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:46.000
<v Speaker 1>but it was more platonic where they took on these roles.

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00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.960
<v Speaker 1>But as far as we're aware. Yeah, the sexual nature

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00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.359
<v Speaker 1>of it was non existent.

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00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I guess you could kind of still take on

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00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.319
<v Speaker 2>those roles to a degree as and it be a friendship. Hey,

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00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:58.799
<v Speaker 2>I never really thought about that, but yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely, but they were. It was necessarily like a friendship

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00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.160
<v Speaker 1>per se. It was I guess like the next step

346
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>would have been into the sexual world. I guess it's

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00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.680
<v Speaker 1>really hard to describe. From my understanding, each character that

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00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.279
<v Speaker 1>they played was not playing a character. They took that

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00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:21.319
<v Speaker 1>into their life. So they're becoming this, I'm in charge,

350
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm the dominance. You do as I say in their

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00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>day to day. Yes, so when people role play in

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00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.799
<v Speaker 1>the sexuality part of it, they're kind of living that

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00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:34.079
<v Speaker 1>role play without getting into the sexual part, if that

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00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:34.640
<v Speaker 1>makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, interesting now.

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<v Speaker 1>In May of twenty sixteen, Truty moved into Jemma's home

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<v Speaker 1>at twenty two Broughton Way in Aurelia, bringing her children

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00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.640
<v Speaker 1>with her. Jemma liked to call the house Elm Street,

359
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.400
<v Speaker 1>which was a deliberate nod to her favorite horror franchise,

360
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:54.319
<v Speaker 1>Nightmare on Elm Street starring the nightmare killer Freddy Krueger.

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<v Speaker 1>Inside the home, the walls were lined with horror imagery, posters,

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<v Speaker 1>and art work drawn from slasher film, serial killer fiction,

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00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:04.200
<v Speaker 1>and violent fantasies.

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00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:05.279
<v Speaker 2>What might have.

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00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Looked like themed decor to an outsider gradually became something

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00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot more specific. Like, for example, I know people

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00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.319
<v Speaker 1>who are I guess you could say maybe gothic horror fanatics,

368
00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing, and they have their house painted black.

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00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:24.200
<v Speaker 1>They've got like horror posters and pictures on the wall

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00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.359
<v Speaker 1>and pop funk funko vinyl figures, all those sort of things.

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00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:32.960
<v Speaker 1>But they're nice people. These individuals, well, they're not necessarily

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00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.960
<v Speaker 1>nice people. They're taking it that step further where for example,

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<v Speaker 1>we're listening and talking about true crime right now, right,

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00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:42.119
<v Speaker 1>we're in this genre, we're in this niche. But then

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00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:44.039
<v Speaker 1>there's people who take it that step farther and they

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00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:47.960
<v Speaker 1>obsess over the perpetrators, the serial killers. There's that line

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00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.839
<v Speaker 1>in the sand that they're stepping over.

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00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, where it becomes an obsession and live your life

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00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:58.720
<v Speaker 2>around that, I guess, And it's only gonna spiral for sure.

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00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.960
<v Speaker 1>And there's that matter of how you perceive the work

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00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of art, perceive the story, perceive the movie. Are you

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00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.599
<v Speaker 1>watching it for hey, for us, we like to tell

383
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>victim stories, right or are you more interested in the details,

384
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.200
<v Speaker 1>the graphic details of the perpetrator, what they did, how

385
00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.759
<v Speaker 1>they did it? Are you obsessed with that? Those are

386
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.920
<v Speaker 1>some of the questions and the differences between normal indulging

387
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:28.559
<v Speaker 1>in something and going a little too deep. So what

388
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.799
<v Speaker 1>might have looked like all this themed decor was much

389
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.359
<v Speaker 1>more specific, and the house stopped feeling like a shared

390
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.039
<v Speaker 1>living space and began to feel while felt sealed off

391
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:42.160
<v Speaker 1>from the outside world. Conversations started to happen inside the walls,

392
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.519
<v Speaker 1>and they stayed there. Ideas were reinforced with each other,

393
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and the longer they lived together, the more the space well.

394
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.279
<v Speaker 1>It started to reflect their shared fixation to the outside world.

395
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.599
<v Speaker 1>It was just that other suburban unit along the row

396
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.799
<v Speaker 1>of houses, but the women inside with them. It became

397
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.319
<v Speaker 1>a place where their fantasies and reality started to blur,

398
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.079
<v Speaker 1>where violent thoughts were encouraged instead of challenged, and where

399
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>boundaries were quietly disappearing. By late May, whatever line once

400
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>separated fantasy from reality had quietly vanished online through text

401
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.920
<v Speaker 1>messages and such, Gemma and Trudy began speaking less like

402
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>people imagining violence and talking about crime, that sort of stuff,

403
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and more like people who were actually preparing for it. Instead,

404
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.240
<v Speaker 1>their conversations shifted in in tone, and they talked about

405
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.359
<v Speaker 1>killing not as a distant idea, but as something inevitable,

406
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 1>something that needed to happen, like a morbid snowball building

407
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:46.200
<v Speaker 1>mass until it was undeniable. In one exchange, they told

408
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:50.359
<v Speaker 1>one another that they were ready, quote unquote. It wasn't

409
00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.039
<v Speaker 1>framed as a joke or some sort of early conversation

410
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.799
<v Speaker 1>that may have been taken a different way. This was

411
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.759
<v Speaker 1>instead a real statement of resolve. They were ready.

412
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Okay, I'm starting to get real uncomfortable here. Yeah,

413
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:09.119
<v Speaker 2>because initially the phone call that you described didn't seem alarming,

414
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.359
<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, okay, I was sort of thinking that

415
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:17.599
<v Speaker 2>someone abducted him at the mall or something. But uh, awesome, Okay,

416
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>so we're really in for it here.

417
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.240
<v Speaker 1>No, this was premeditated, This was prepared.

418
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

419
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.880
<v Speaker 1>So with everyone outside this little bubble of theirs, you know,

420
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.079
<v Speaker 1>the outside world, with their private messages, nothing looked out

421
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>of place. These two women still went to work, they

422
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.319
<v Speaker 1>still handled daily responsibilities. There was kids living in the house.

423
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Everything you know, but when they were alone, their words

424
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:45.440
<v Speaker 1>were dark and very specific. They discussed suffering control and

425
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:50.720
<v Speaker 1>what they referred to as Sos's first kill quote unquote.

426
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:54.160
<v Speaker 1>They were treating it like it was something like a

427
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:59.440
<v Speaker 1>milestone rather than a crime. They were so disattached from reality.

428
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.279
<v Speaker 1>The preparation didn't stop at words, though. Between mid May

429
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.720
<v Speaker 1>and the days leading up to June thirteenth, the pair

430
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.160
<v Speaker 1>made several trips to hardware stores across Perth. On separate occasions.

431
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.119
<v Speaker 1>They purchased items that, on their own were very legal

432
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:18.039
<v Speaker 1>and didn't draw attention, things like a circular saw, actone

433
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.920
<v Speaker 1>bleach cement and a large plastic barrel. They also bought

434
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:29.960
<v Speaker 1>an extraordinary amount of a hydrochloric acid, spreading the purchase

435
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>across multiple stores, and altogether they purchased around one hundred

436
00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:36.079
<v Speaker 1>liters of it.

437
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, you know what. You did not warn me that.

438
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.839
<v Speaker 2>I was like, my blood is already boiling. I'm fricking pissed. Okay,

439
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.319
<v Speaker 2>hold on sitting here. I did warn.

440
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 1>You because if you listen to the intro of this episode,

441
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I said, quote. Investigation into his disappearance would cover one

442
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.640
<v Speaker 1>of Western Australia's most jaw droppingly cruel and disturbing crimes.

443
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:02.920
<v Speaker 1>End quote. So I did warn you.

444
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess, but I was not prepared for this. And

445
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm like fume and mad and I got to sit here,

446
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:14.039
<v Speaker 2>and I gotta sit here.

447
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:16.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's kind of how this works as you

448
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.559
<v Speaker 1>listen to the story.

449
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, okay, I mean, my heart's already breaking, I

450
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.400
<v Speaker 2>feel like, but yeah, I fair.

451
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.519
<v Speaker 1>Enough, that's that's a reasonable reaction. Hmm are you good

452
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:27.039
<v Speaker 1>to keep going?

453
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I am yep, okay.

454
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 1>So inside the house on BroadOn Way, changes were taking

455
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.039
<v Speaker 1>place as rooms were altered, surfaces were covered, and spaces

456
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>were cleared and prepared in ways that would make sense

457
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:44.000
<v Speaker 1>in hindsight. To Gemma and Trudy this phase it felt controlled,

458
00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:49.359
<v Speaker 1>organized and very empowering. They believe they were careful, they

459
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.599
<v Speaker 1>believed they were smart, and most of all, they believed

460
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:57.640
<v Speaker 1>that no one was watching anything. They were just two

461
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:01.079
<v Speaker 1>women living together in suburban Perth, and they thought no

462
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.799
<v Speaker 1>one would catch on to what they had planned. Now.

463
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 1>On June thirteenth, when the two women picked up Erin

464
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.279
<v Speaker 1>from the parking lot, the drive from rocking Ham Center

465
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.640
<v Speaker 1>to Aurelia didn't take very long, and when they pulled

466
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>up outside the unit and brought in way. Nothing about

467
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:19.240
<v Speaker 1>the place looked unusual. There was a small sign on

468
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the gate that read Elm Street, which was a detail

469
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.640
<v Speaker 1>that meant nothing to Erin at the time. CCTV cameras

470
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.200
<v Speaker 1>installed outside the house. A later show of the three

471
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.599
<v Speaker 1>of them entering together. Just after ten o'clock in the morning,

472
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.839
<v Speaker 1>Aaron walked through the gate on his own, carrying his iPad,

473
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:40.759
<v Speaker 1>following Gemma and Trudy inside. Now in that house, everything again,

474
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 1>just like everything else so far today seemed normal. Erin

475
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.920
<v Speaker 1>was given a cup of coffee and directed towards the

476
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>computer that needed his attention. He sat down and began

477
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.160
<v Speaker 1>his work, focusing on the task in front of him. Now,

478
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.279
<v Speaker 1>for those few minutes, nothing was wrong, but the window

479
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.920
<v Speaker 1>between safety and violence was short lived. Police would later

480
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.000
<v Speaker 1>piece together the sequence using the homes outside, CCTV cameras,

481
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.160
<v Speaker 1>forensic evidence, and witness testimony, and what they found is

482
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.680
<v Speaker 1>that around ten thirty am, a camera outside the house

483
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.119
<v Speaker 1>captured Trudy leaving briefly, then re entering while holding a

484
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.880
<v Speaker 1>large knife in a sheath. Not long after that, the

485
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.319
<v Speaker 1>cameras on the home were switched off of course they were,

486
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:34.880
<v Speaker 1>and what happened next unfolded extremely quickly. Investigators later determined

487
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.759
<v Speaker 1>that Erin was attacked from behind while he sat at

488
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.759
<v Speaker 1>the computer, focused on the task that he'd been invited

489
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 1>there to do. In the blink of an eye, a

490
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.119
<v Speaker 1>wire ligature was wrapped around his neck from behind in

491
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 1>an attempt to restrain him, but Erin fought back and

492
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 1>the wire snapped during the struggle, leaving clear signs of

493
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.599
<v Speaker 1>resistance on his hands. What followed was rapid and chaotic,

494
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:05.079
<v Speaker 1>held down and then stabbed viciously, sustaining fatal injuries to

495
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.079
<v Speaker 1>his neck and his chest. According to forensic evidence, the

496
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.319
<v Speaker 1>sequence unfolded in a matter of only minutes, and it

497
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:19.680
<v Speaker 1>began as an ordinary visit, but it ended quickly and fatally. Now,

498
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.200
<v Speaker 1>what came next wasn't panic in the way most people

499
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.599
<v Speaker 1>would expect. There was no frantic call for help or

500
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:29.720
<v Speaker 1>immediate attempt to flee, you know, or maybe a sudden

501
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 1>rush of what the fuck did I just do? Flooding

502
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:36.359
<v Speaker 1>into someone's mind. But instead, what followed was a series

503
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.599
<v Speaker 1>of decisions that suggested Gemma and Trudy believe they still

504
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:43.839
<v Speaker 1>had complete control over what they had done. You see.

505
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.319
<v Speaker 1>In the days leading up to June thirteenth, the two

506
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:50.839
<v Speaker 1>women had discussed dissolving a body using one hundred liters

507
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.319
<v Speaker 1>of hydrochloric acid.

508
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I wonder where they got that idea from, right.

509
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.039
<v Speaker 1>They even went as far as testing it on chunks

510
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 1>of meat, trying to see how long it would take

511
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:03.359
<v Speaker 1>to break down the flesh and bone that they dropped

512
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.519
<v Speaker 1>into it. They had a very large plastic barrel that

513
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.200
<v Speaker 1>sat ready and waiting for them to make this problem

514
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:15.759
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote problem disappear entirely. But after the killing, this

515
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 1>plan was abandoned. Whatever it was, whatever, whether it was time, pressure, fear,

516
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.680
<v Speaker 1>or simply the reality of what they were facing. Investigators

517
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:26.400
<v Speaker 1>would later conclude that the acid was never used on

518
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Aaron's body. Instead, the women pivoted to something faster and

519
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:36.799
<v Speaker 1>far less effective. Aarin's lifeless body was dragged through the home,

520
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 1>away from the main living area, out of sight. The

521
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.799
<v Speaker 1>goal was now not exactly disposal, not really anyways. It

522
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 1>was now instead more about concealment. From there, the two

523
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:50.599
<v Speaker 1>dug a shallow grave in the backyard, only about thirty

524
00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 1>centimeters deep or about twelve inches in total. Basically, it

525
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 1>was just enough to hide what lay beneath. Concrete was

526
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.799
<v Speaker 1>then mixed and poured over this shallow grave, and bright

527
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>red tiles were laid on top. It was uneven and

528
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:09.039
<v Speaker 1>hastily done. The work was amateurish at best. It looked

529
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.640
<v Speaker 1>rushed and obvious to anyone who knew what they were

530
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.119
<v Speaker 1>looking for. But at the time, the women were confident

531
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 1>it would be enough, and they thought that they were

532
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.039
<v Speaker 1>getting away with murder, just like they talked about.

533
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Now.

534
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 1>What made the cover up even more disturbing was who

535
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.160
<v Speaker 1>helped finish it. You see, I mentioned already that Trudy

536
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 1>had children, and they returned home from school that day

537
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.759
<v Speaker 1>and one of her sons, who was actually friends with

538
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Aaron unknowingly assisted with laying tiles over the freshly poured concrete.

539
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:43.920
<v Speaker 1>He had no idea what was buried beneath his feet.

540
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:46.559
<v Speaker 1>He had no idea that he was helping seal the

541
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:49.799
<v Speaker 1>grave of his friend and someone that he played games

542
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.440
<v Speaker 1>with only days earlier.

543
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, just like fuck these two really? Yeah, this

544
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>is unbelievable. I know the fact that they act involved

545
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 2>her children is insane to me. Yes, not only the

546
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.359
<v Speaker 2>fact that it's like you're involving children, but the fact

547
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.279
<v Speaker 2>that your child is friends with this individual just makes

548
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:16.319
<v Speaker 2>it that much worse. Yeah. Ugh, it's unfathomable actually what

549
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 2>they've done here, Like holy shit, I.

550
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Can't imagine the reality of that setting into that child too,

551
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:22.960
<v Speaker 1>knowing what he had helped do.

552
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why don't just like ruin more people's lives exactly.

553
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:31.359
<v Speaker 1>So inside that house there were signs of the cleanup too.

554
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>There was a section of carpet that was cut from

555
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.279
<v Speaker 1>the lounge room floor, and this is where Aaron had

556
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.880
<v Speaker 1>been attacked and killed. So they were covering up all

557
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.119
<v Speaker 1>the evidence of what had happened. Blood likely soaked and

558
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 1>stained into that carpet and they were trying to hide it,

559
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 1>so they cut out that section to remove it. Furniture

560
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.319
<v Speaker 1>was then moved to cover up this blank spot and

561
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.799
<v Speaker 1>other spots of potential blood. And you know, the efforts

562
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.559
<v Speaker 1>that they tried to put into this to erase what

563
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.240
<v Speaker 1>had happened. It was sloppy. It was incomplete. Like you

564
00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.759
<v Speaker 1>have a chunk of carpet missing cut out and you

565
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 1>just move a couch over it, for example, like really, like,

566
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:04.359
<v Speaker 1>no one's going to notice that?

567
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:06.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, that's not smart.

568
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Now, by the time the concrete had set and the

569
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 1>tiles dried. Gemma and Trudy believed the worst was over.

570
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.680
<v Speaker 1>They believed they had solved their problems and that no

571
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.599
<v Speaker 1>one would ever think to look beneath that backyard patio.

572
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:23.359
<v Speaker 1>But boy were they wrong. Aaron Pajic was expected home

573
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.359
<v Speaker 1>that afternoon on June thirteenth, and by the evening, when

574
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:29.839
<v Speaker 1>he'd still you know, not showed up and no one

575
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>heard a word from him, concern began to set in.

576
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.319
<v Speaker 1>Erin was not someone who disappeared without explanation. He kept

577
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>very close track of his schedule and stayed in regular

578
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.599
<v Speaker 1>contact with the people around him, and he almost never

579
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.880
<v Speaker 1>turned off his phone. He liked routine, he liked stability,

580
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 1>and this was not that. The following morning, after still

581
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:56.160
<v Speaker 1>hearing nothing from him, his landlady, Adrian reid Well, tried

582
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>one last time to reach him, and the call went

583
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 1>straight to voicemail, which alone is unusual. Aaron's phone was

584
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:05.759
<v Speaker 1>rarely out of reach and Well he was known for

585
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 1>answering very quickly. As the hours passed and repeated attempts

586
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.599
<v Speaker 1>went unanswered, it was June fourteenth was still no sign

587
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of Erin that police were notified and a missing person's

588
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.039
<v Speaker 1>report was filed, so it was the next day.

589
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I just have to say, these two are complete idiots, like,

590
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:27.440
<v Speaker 2>and I'm super glad they are, but do they people

591
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 2>knew that he was going over there, So I just

592
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't quite comprehend how they expected to get away

593
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 2>with this and thought they did good quotes or why never?

594
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And I think, like, it's it's obvious that they targeted

595
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Erin for who he was.

596
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:43.799
<v Speaker 2>He is so sad.

597
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Definitely he's a vulnerable, trusting individual, so they targeted him

598
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:51.240
<v Speaker 1>for that. And I think this is my assumption here.

599
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I think they thought if he's dropped off in this

600
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.759
<v Speaker 1>mall parking lot and they pick him up from there,

601
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 1>then there's no way that they'd be connected to them. However,

602
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:04.640
<v Speaker 1>security cameras and you have someone who knew, like someone

603
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.880
<v Speaker 1>who overheard the call, and then you know phone tracing.

604
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 1>There's so much evidence that can follow you, whether you

605
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:12.880
<v Speaker 1>think you have an invisible trail or not. It's ridiculous.

606
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 1>And we just thought they were good.

607
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I'm glad that they did this so

608
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:21.440
<v Speaker 2>poorly because they deserve to get caught. But it's just like, wow,

609
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 2>like you're really dumb.

610
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Definitely, And honestly, the next thing I have written is

611
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.159
<v Speaker 1>investigators began retracing Aaron's final no movements, and they learned

612
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.440
<v Speaker 1>he had left the house early on Monday morning after

613
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.840
<v Speaker 1>receiving a phone call while eating breakfast. So right away

614
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.119
<v Speaker 1>they're tracking right to that rocking Hymn center. Yeah, right,

615
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.519
<v Speaker 1>to help with this computer issue. It's immediately now that

616
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 1>part of the story was checked out. Phone records even

617
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.800
<v Speaker 1>showed the last answered call on Aaron's phone had come

618
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:50.840
<v Speaker 1>from Trudy Lennin on the morning of June thirteenth, so

619
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.199
<v Speaker 1>it's not like they didn't just try and hide a

620
00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:57.360
<v Speaker 1>phone number. Even it was very easily tracked. Oh that's

621
00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the person who contacted him. Go to the parking lot

622
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.880
<v Speaker 1>in the CCTV footage, Oh, there she is. There's her car,

623
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:05.880
<v Speaker 1>there's her license plate. Where are they going to her

624
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 1>house to help with the computer? Gotcha gone? Like it was,

625
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 1>they tracked her so fast. So obviously that CCTV footage,

626
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:17.239
<v Speaker 1>like I said, filled in the next gap heading you know,

627
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 1>over to that home. Cameras captured Aaron waiting in the

628
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.519
<v Speaker 1>car parking lot being picked up with Trudy and Gemma

629
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:26.519
<v Speaker 1>in the passenger seat. The footage showed nothing unusual, Aaron

630
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.280
<v Speaker 1>willingly going in the car and being driven away, So

631
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 1>they simply followed that evidence to where it led, which

632
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.960
<v Speaker 1>was the house on Broughton Way in Aurelia. When officers

633
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.440
<v Speaker 1>first stopped in at this address, both the women there

634
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:41.079
<v Speaker 1>told the officers that Aaron had visited briefly, had worked

635
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 1>on the computer, and then left on his own. Now

636
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.440
<v Speaker 1>the statement and timeline that they were given didn't sit

637
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:51.599
<v Speaker 1>right with investigators. Aaron's phone had gone silent after that morning,

638
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:56.039
<v Speaker 1>his belongings hadn't resurfaced, and every verified movement after rocking

639
00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:59.719
<v Speaker 1>him center pointed back to the very same place that address.

640
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:03.880
<v Speaker 1>So by June twentieth, police returned to the Aralia property,

641
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.880
<v Speaker 1>no longer treating it as just another address in a

642
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.840
<v Speaker 1>missing person's inquiry. This time they were prepared to look closer,

643
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:13.119
<v Speaker 1>not just of what the women were saying and what

644
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.840
<v Speaker 1>they were telling police, they wanted to see what the

645
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:20.559
<v Speaker 1>house itself would reveal. So by that point, Aaron had

646
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.519
<v Speaker 1>been missing for a full week and investigators were no

647
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:26.719
<v Speaker 1>longer working on an assumption, you know, that he'd wandered

648
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:30.119
<v Speaker 1>off or lost contact, something like that. Something was clearly wrong.

649
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.159
<v Speaker 1>The evidence had narrowed the timeline, narrowed the location, and

650
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 1>narrow the list of people who had last seen him alive.

651
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 1>So now entering inside this house under a search warrant,

652
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:45.400
<v Speaker 1>officers searched carefully, noting details that seemed insignificant days earlier.

653
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Then the attention shifted outside. The backyard was small and enclosed.

654
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.840
<v Speaker 1>It was bordered by fencing and was partially paved, but

655
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.679
<v Speaker 1>one section immediately stood out, a square of freshly laid

656
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.000
<v Speaker 1>concrete covered with bright red tiles that sat awkwardly against

657
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.679
<v Speaker 1>the other older pavement. The workmanship on it was extremely

658
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.920
<v Speaker 1>crude and uneven, noticeably different from the surrounding area, not

659
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:15.400
<v Speaker 1>only that it looked very new and rushed. At first,

660
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.719
<v Speaker 1>the women offered explanations, you know, just renovations and repairs,

661
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:21.559
<v Speaker 1>nothing unusual to see here sort of thing, But the

662
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.400
<v Speaker 1>timing clearly didn't sit right, and neither did the haste

663
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:27.800
<v Speaker 1>of the work. Police left the property that night, but

664
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 1>they didn't walk away from it. They made sure that

665
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:33.239
<v Speaker 1>they had cordoned it off, and they returned hours later

666
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.840
<v Speaker 1>with a forensic team prepared to dig up that concrete

667
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 1>to check underneath it. As the tiles were lifted and

668
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the concrete was broken apart, the smell reached them first

669
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 1>beneath the slab, less than a foot below the surface,

670
00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:51.519
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in plastic in a drop sheet, Aaron Pajech's body

671
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.960
<v Speaker 1>was slowly uncovered in that backyard. The discovery confirmed what

672
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:59.400
<v Speaker 1>investigators had begun to suspect but hoped not to find

673
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.119
<v Speaker 1>that Erin never left that house, that he'd been killed

674
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.039
<v Speaker 1>there and hidden beneath this concrete.

675
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Damn. That is just so sad, holy shit. And yeah,

676
00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 2>they would I think it would have been obvious when

677
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:12.480
<v Speaker 2>they saw that.

678
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 1>It would have been extremely obvious. By the early hours

679
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:18.880
<v Speaker 1>of June twenty first, the house on Broughton Way stopped

680
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 1>being a place of interest and became a full on

681
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:25.159
<v Speaker 1>murder scene. What investigators found inside confirmed that the killing

682
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 1>was not spontaneous, that it was not accidental and not

683
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.840
<v Speaker 1>the result of a single moment gone wrong. Instead, they

684
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:36.320
<v Speaker 1>discovered that it was very clearly planned. Room by room.

685
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:40.320
<v Speaker 1>The picture sharpened. In the lounge area, police noticed a large,

686
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.440
<v Speaker 1>roughly cut missing square from the carpet. It was an

687
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.280
<v Speaker 1>odd detail on its own, but taken alongside what has

688
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.360
<v Speaker 1>already been uncovered. It pointed very clearly at an attempt

689
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:53.239
<v Speaker 1>to clean up beneath furniture and rugs. Forensic testing revealed

690
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:58.360
<v Speaker 1>bloodstains consistent with violent assault as well. This investigators concluded

691
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.159
<v Speaker 1>was likely where Erin had been attacked. Elsewhere in the house,

692
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.400
<v Speaker 1>though the findings were even more disturbing. One room had

693
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:10.440
<v Speaker 1>been deliberately sealed off from the rest and inside. When

694
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.960
<v Speaker 1>they entered, they found that the floor was freshly tiled,

695
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the walls were lined with blue tarps, and there were

696
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 1>tools knives of various sizes, bone saws, scalpels, a machete, bleach,

697
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:28.920
<v Speaker 1>and a large plastic tub. A gurney stood against one wall.

698
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.119
<v Speaker 1>A towel and a mop were nearby. The setup was

699
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 1>crudely clinical and chillingly obvious on its purpose. This was

700
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 1>a murder room.

701
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, you're not kidding, not.

702
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Kidding at all. They clearly had intentions to do more.

703
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was just their first. Holy friggin' shit. Yeah

704
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.440
<v Speaker 2>that is so. I couldn't imagine stumbling across a room

705
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:55.639
<v Speaker 2>like that. Holy heck.

706
00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:01.079
<v Speaker 1>Handwritten lists were also recovered. They were neatly organized, alphabetized,

707
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.679
<v Speaker 1>and detailed different methods of torture. Investigators later testified that

708
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.280
<v Speaker 1>these were not vague ideas or fictional notes. They were

709
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.559
<v Speaker 1>very specific, they were practical, and they even matched items

710
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:16.599
<v Speaker 1>found throughout the house. They were clearly not just notes.

711
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:21.679
<v Speaker 1>They instead had future plans for future victims. And then

712
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>there was the CCTV system. See, Gemma had installed motion

713
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:29.280
<v Speaker 1>activated cameras around the exterior of the property to protect

714
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.519
<v Speaker 1>her motorcycles. Those same cameras captured evidence that would become

715
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.320
<v Speaker 1>very central to this case and will be repeated many times.

716
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.000
<v Speaker 1>The footage showed Erin entering the house with both Gemma

717
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.599
<v Speaker 1>and Trudy on the morning of June thirteenth. Another clip,

718
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 1>timestamped shortly afterwards, showed Truly leaving and re entering the

719
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:53.239
<v Speaker 1>house holding that large knife in a sheath. Then, as

720
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:56.800
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned already, not long after, the cameras were manually

721
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 1>switched off. What the system did not record is just

722
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:04.760
<v Speaker 1>as important as what it did. There was no footage

723
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:10.039
<v Speaker 1>of Aaron ever leaving the property. Now digital evidence added

724
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.599
<v Speaker 1>another layer to the story too. Messages exchanged between the

725
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.079
<v Speaker 1>two women in the weeks before Aaron's death revealed a

726
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:20.039
<v Speaker 1>clear escalation from fantasy to intent. They spoke openly about

727
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:24.559
<v Speaker 1>being ready, about a first kill, about blood and control.

728
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:28.960
<v Speaker 1>The language was very direct, mutual, and time specific. These

729
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:33.679
<v Speaker 1>weren't abstract ideas, jokes or writing exercises. They were real.

730
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.679
<v Speaker 1>With the forensic evidence mounting, police separated both the women,

731
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Gemma and Trudy, and began formal interviews with both of them.

732
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Up to that point, both women had maintained a version

733
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of events that painted Aaron's visit as very brief and

734
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:53.000
<v Speaker 1>rather uneventful. Now face with what had been uncovered in

735
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:57.199
<v Speaker 1>the house and the backyard, those stories soon began to change.

736
00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Gemma was adamant that she had nothing to do with

737
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:03.239
<v Speaker 1>aaron death. She told investigators that after Aarin arrived and

738
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:06.119
<v Speaker 1>began working on the computer, she went into another room

739
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 1>and fell asleep conveniently.

740
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Enough, Oh my goodness.

741
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Then she woke up and she claimed Aarin was gone.

742
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:16.760
<v Speaker 1>She said she assumed he had just simply left on

743
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:21.679
<v Speaker 1>his own. According to her account, she knew nothing, absolutely

744
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:25.360
<v Speaker 1>nothing about his fate until police arrived days later.

745
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but just to clarify, she's she was considered the

746
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.880
<v Speaker 2>more dominant one, right, Yes, that's correct. Okay, But I mean,

747
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.280
<v Speaker 2>I guess the police wouldn't know that, per se, But

748
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I find that very interesting that she's

749
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.320
<v Speaker 2>just so willing to completely put the blame on her

750
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.079
<v Speaker 2>friend or whatever the frick that person is to.

751
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Her, Well, what did people generally do when they're pitted

752
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.440
<v Speaker 1>in that situation? I didn't do it. It was them.

753
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:48.199
<v Speaker 2>I didn't do it.

754
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:48.679
<v Speaker 1>It was them.

755
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.280
<v Speaker 2>I'd go against each other, but they had like a

756
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:55.159
<v Speaker 2>fairly close relationship. I get. I don't know nothing about

757
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.400
<v Speaker 2>this is probably going to make sense to me.

758
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.159
<v Speaker 1>So when you're dealing with individuals like this who were

759
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.519
<v Speaker 1>willing to commit a crime like that, I guarantee you

760
00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:03.920
<v Speaker 1>their morals are zero.

761
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Tuche. Okay, that makes sense to me.

762
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Then.

763
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Now.

764
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Trudy, on the other hand, admitted that she had invited

765
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:14.679
<v Speaker 1>erin to the house and acknowledged that he in fact

766
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:18.400
<v Speaker 1>trusted her. She also conceded that she had been present

767
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:22.360
<v Speaker 1>during the attack, describing an attempt by Jemma to restrain

768
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Arin with a garrot, which is an assassin's tool which

769
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.920
<v Speaker 1>consists of like wire and handles on each end, so

770
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:34.920
<v Speaker 1>it's that wire ligature. However, this grot broke and a

771
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.119
<v Speaker 1>violent struggle ensued. Trudy claimed that she did not deliver

772
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:42.920
<v Speaker 1>the fatal blows, but she did admit to helping clean

773
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:47.760
<v Speaker 1>up and conceal the body afterwards. The problem for both women, though,

774
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:52.679
<v Speaker 1>was that their statements conflicted one another, and also the

775
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.079
<v Speaker 1>evidence conflicted their statements too.

776
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:55.599
<v Speaker 2>See.

777
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Police already knew the cameras had recorded Trudy returning in

778
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:01.320
<v Speaker 1>the house with a knife short before the killing. They

779
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:03.519
<v Speaker 1>knew the cameras were turned off soon after, They knew

780
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.400
<v Speaker 1>the section of the carpet had been removed from the

781
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:07.960
<v Speaker 1>lounge area, and they knew the messages between the two

782
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:11.840
<v Speaker 1>women spoke plainly about killing long before Aaron even walked

783
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 1>through the gate or the front door. It was clearly

784
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:18.880
<v Speaker 1>a planned and coordinated attack. They were lying through their teeth.

785
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.559
<v Speaker 1>But that's not where the evidence stops, because there's also

786
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.320
<v Speaker 1>a coworker. See. Five days after Erin disappeared, before his

787
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:31.760
<v Speaker 1>body was found, Jemma spoke to a male colleague at

788
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:36.079
<v Speaker 1>the supermarket where she worked. According to his later testimony,

789
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:40.519
<v Speaker 1>she told him that she had quote finally done it

790
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:44.679
<v Speaker 1>end quote. She described coming up behind a victim with

791
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 1>a garat explained that it hadn't gone as planned and

792
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:50.880
<v Speaker 1>that she had needed help finishing the job.

793
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Now.

794
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:55.360
<v Speaker 1>The coworker, of course, was horrified by this, and he

795
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:59.559
<v Speaker 1>reported the conversation to police, which ultimately helped massively in

796
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the investment.

797
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, good, he did report this, he did so.

798
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Now confronted with this, Gemma backtracked. She began suggesting that

799
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 1>she had been making it all up and that that

800
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.079
<v Speaker 1>wasn't real what she told her coworker, just boasting about

801
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:17.199
<v Speaker 1>fake stories or perhaps some of her writings. Maybe, But

802
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:20.199
<v Speaker 1>investigators noted that the details that she shared in this

803
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.159
<v Speaker 1>conversation matched facts that were not even public yet, such

804
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 1>as the breaking. As the interviews continued, the pattern in

805
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.800
<v Speaker 1>it all became extremely clear. Each woman attempted to minimize

806
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.320
<v Speaker 1>their own role while placing the responsibility on the other.

807
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Neither could explain the planning, the shopping trips, the prepared room,

808
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:43.559
<v Speaker 1>or the messages discussed as a quote first kill, and

809
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:47.480
<v Speaker 1>most importantly, neither could account for why Aaron never left

810
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:51.800
<v Speaker 1>the house alive. When the trial began in October of

811
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:55.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty seventeen at the Supreme Court of Western Australia, the

812
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.159
<v Speaker 1>case against Gemma, Lily and Trudy Lenin was already heavy

813
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:03.039
<v Speaker 1>with detail. Over the course of five weeks, jurors were

814
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.280
<v Speaker 1>asked to follow a precise timeline, one that showed not

815
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:10.159
<v Speaker 1>just what happened to Erin, but also specifically how it

816
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:14.559
<v Speaker 1>had been set in motion. The prosecution's case in this

817
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:17.639
<v Speaker 1>trial walked the jury through the relationship between the two

818
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:21.480
<v Speaker 1>women and the escalation of their online conversations, and then

819
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.800
<v Speaker 1>the purchases made in the weeks before June thirteen. Hardware stores, receipts,

820
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.079
<v Speaker 1>chemical purchases, CCTV footage were all introduced piece by piece,

821
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.679
<v Speaker 1>each one reinforcing the idea that the killing was planned

822
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and not impulsive whatsoever. The most confronting moment came when

823
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:42.079
<v Speaker 1>the jury was shown the CCTV footage outside the house,

824
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:45.760
<v Speaker 1>showing Erin entering, then less than a half an hour later,

825
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Trudy leaving and re entering the house carrying the large knife.

826
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Then the sudden absence of any further footage as the

827
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:56.800
<v Speaker 1>cameras were specifically turned off from inside. Text messages were

828
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:59.920
<v Speaker 1>read aloud in court, as well, messages about being ready,

829
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.280
<v Speaker 1>messages of blood and a first kill. Messages sent after

830
00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:07.800
<v Speaker 1>the murder, even that spoke of empowerment and exhilaration rather

831
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:11.639
<v Speaker 1>than shock and regret. The defense attempted to pull the

832
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:15.800
<v Speaker 1>women apart from each other and defend themselves as individuals.

833
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Jemma's lawyer leaned heavily on her claim that she was

834
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.960
<v Speaker 1>asleep during the attack, arguing there was no direct evidence

835
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:26.960
<v Speaker 1>placing the knife in her hand at all. Trudy's defense

836
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:29.960
<v Speaker 1>acknowledged her role in luring Erin into the home and

837
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.159
<v Speaker 1>helping hide the body, but they argued that she had

838
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:35.679
<v Speaker 1>not intended for him to be killed and that she

839
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 1>had been dominated by Jemma. The jury also heard testimony

840
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.480
<v Speaker 1>from Gemma's coworkers, including the man who said she confessed

841
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:48.599
<v Speaker 1>days before Aaron's body was even discovered. They saw photographs

842
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.559
<v Speaker 1>of the crime scene, the cut carpet, the prepared room,

843
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.440
<v Speaker 1>the shallow grave, and they were shown how the women's

844
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.559
<v Speaker 1>stories shifted as evidence closed in around them. After closing arguments,

845
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the jury retired to deliberate. In total, it took the

846
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:06.920
<v Speaker 1>jury less than three hours to return with their verdict

847
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.519
<v Speaker 1>on both of the women. Both Gemma Lily and Trudy

848
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Lenin were found guilty of murder. When the verdict was

849
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.280
<v Speaker 1>read aloud and the words echoed across the court room,

850
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.079
<v Speaker 1>there was no visible reaction from either defendant. On February

851
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighth, twenty eighteen, nearly four months after the verdicts

852
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:29.400
<v Speaker 1>were delivered, Gemma and Trudy returned to the court for sentencing.

853
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>By then, the facts of the case were no longer

854
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:35.519
<v Speaker 1>in dispute. What remained was simply the court's assessment of motive,

855
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:41.119
<v Speaker 1>responsibility and the weight of what they'd done. Justice Stephen

856
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:45.360
<v Speaker 1>Hall did not soften his words. He described the murder

857
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 1>of Aaron Pagech as morally repugnant, making it clear that

858
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:53.000
<v Speaker 1>this was not a crime driven by anger, desperation, or

859
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 1>even fear. It was, in his words, a killing carried

860
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.639
<v Speaker 1>out for pleasure, the result of a deliberate pursuit of

861
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:05.400
<v Speaker 1>gratification at another person's expense. The judge acknowled that it

862
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:10.000
<v Speaker 1>was not possible to determine which one with certainty inflicted

863
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.840
<v Speaker 1>the fatal wounds, but that uncertainty did not matter. The

864
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:18.039
<v Speaker 1>evidence showed that both had intended for Aaron to die

865
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:21.280
<v Speaker 1>that day, and that both had played essential roles in

866
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:25.679
<v Speaker 1>luring him, in attacking him, and concealing his body. So

867
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.760
<v Speaker 1>in the eyes of the court, responsibility was shared equally.

868
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Justice Hall pointed directly to the messages exchanged between Gemma

869
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.800
<v Speaker 1>and Trudy before and after the murder. They showed anticipation

870
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:42.400
<v Speaker 1>beforehand and complete lack of remorse afterwards. There was no indication,

871
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:45.320
<v Speaker 1>he said, that either woman regretted what they had done

872
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:49.280
<v Speaker 1>or felt any empathy for Aaron or his family. Instead,

873
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:54.599
<v Speaker 1>they derived satisfaction from the suffering they caused. As a result,

874
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.920
<v Speaker 1>each woman was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum

875
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.320
<v Speaker 1>of twenty eight years before being eligible for parole, which

876
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:03.599
<v Speaker 1>was one of the longest sentences handed down in Western

877
00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:08.199
<v Speaker 1>Australia at the time. In the public gallery, Aaron's family

878
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 1>listened in silence. His stepmother, Veronica Desmond, spoke to the

879
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:16.559
<v Speaker 1>media outside the court after the hearing. She said the

880
00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:20.039
<v Speaker 1>sentence would never bring Erin back, but she hoped the

881
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.440
<v Speaker 1>women lived long enough to fully understand what they had taken.

882
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.639
<v Speaker 1>Erin's parents echoed the same sentiment, relief that justice had

883
00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:33.639
<v Speaker 1>been done, paired with grief that would never ease. For Jemma,

884
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.760
<v Speaker 1>sentencing was not the end. She maintained her innocence and

885
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:41.239
<v Speaker 1>later launched an appeal, insisting that she'd been wrongfully convicted,

886
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:46.239
<v Speaker 1>but that appeal would ultimately fail. For Trudy, prison would

887
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:49.599
<v Speaker 1>bring consequences of its own. In the months that followed,

888
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>the fallout from Erin Pagch's murder continued to ripple outwards

889
00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:56.119
<v Speaker 1>through the prison system, even through the public, and through

890
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the lives of people that were left behind. On New

891
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Year's Day of twenty eighteen, the weeks after the guilty verdict,

892
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Trudy Lenin was attacked inside Bandyip Women's Prison while waiting

893
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:12.760
<v Speaker 1>in line for medication. Another inmate approached her from behind

894
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.519
<v Speaker 1>and poured a container of boiling water over her shoulders

895
00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:20.440
<v Speaker 1>and upper body. Trudy suffered serious burns to more than

896
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:23.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty percent of her body and spent weeks in hospital,

897
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:27.960
<v Speaker 1>including time and intensive care. Another inmate standing nearby was

898
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.719
<v Speaker 1>also injured as a result. This inmate later told the

899
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:35.440
<v Speaker 1>court she was disgusted by Trudy's crime and had been

900
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:39.519
<v Speaker 1>triggered after seeing her laughing with other inmates. The judge

901
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:43.199
<v Speaker 1>rejected any suggestion that the attack was justified, stating plainly

902
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:46.480
<v Speaker 1>that vigilante punishment had no place in the justice system,

903
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 1>and they were sentenced to five more years in prison

904
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:53.599
<v Speaker 1>for the attack. Now this attack reignited public anger over

905
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:57.320
<v Speaker 1>the case. Some expressed sympathy for Trudy's injuries, while others

906
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:01.679
<v Speaker 1>openly celebrated them. The reaction highlighted the raw emotion that

907
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 1>still surrounded Erin's death and the discomfort many felt with

908
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.800
<v Speaker 1>how neatly justice can end on paper while pain continues

909
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.960
<v Speaker 1>in reality. Meanwhile, reports later emerged that Gemma had formed

910
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:17.679
<v Speaker 1>a romantic relationship with another convicted murderer while in custody.

911
00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Prison authorities eventually moved both women to separate facilities, citing

912
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:26.920
<v Speaker 1>safety concerns and management issues. For Aaron's family, none of

913
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.480
<v Speaker 1>it mattered in the way headlines suggested it might. Appeals,

914
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:34.159
<v Speaker 1>prison attacks, and romance and media attention did nothing to

915
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.360
<v Speaker 1>change the central truth of this case, and that is

916
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:41.679
<v Speaker 1>that Erin was gone. He was ripped away from this

917
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:45.760
<v Speaker 1>world in a violent and nonsensical act. No development after

918
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.559
<v Speaker 1>the verdict altered the fact or softened its impact. What

919
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:53.719
<v Speaker 1>remained was Erin Pajeech himself, a young man too often

920
00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:56.800
<v Speaker 1>reduced to a footnote in the story of his own death.

921
00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Erin was eighteen years old when he was killed. He

922
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:04.679
<v Speaker 1>was gentle, trusting, and openly kind in a way that

923
00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:07.400
<v Speaker 1>made him vulnerable to a world that does not always

924
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:11.960
<v Speaker 1>treat vulnerability with care. He lived with autism spectrum disorder,

925
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:14.559
<v Speaker 1>something that shaped how he saw people and how he

926
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:19.400
<v Speaker 1>moved through this world, but it didn't shape him. Those

927
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:21.719
<v Speaker 1>who knew him described him as childlike, not in a

928
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.320
<v Speaker 1>dismissive way, mind you, but in the sense that he

929
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:29.119
<v Speaker 1>believed in others easily. He assumed good intentions. He didn't

930
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.400
<v Speaker 1>look for danger, because danger had never been a part

931
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:36.159
<v Speaker 1>of how he understood friendship and relationships. He loved computers,

932
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.239
<v Speaker 1>he loved video games. He could focus for hours on

933
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.960
<v Speaker 1>technical problems when most people found these things boring or confusing.

934
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:49.480
<v Speaker 1>In those spaces, he was confident and capable. He had

935
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:53.440
<v Speaker 1>a quiet intelligence that didn't demand attention, but was always there.

936
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Teachers remembered him as someone who needed protecting, someone they

937
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:02.639
<v Speaker 1>instinctively looked out for. Remembered him as loyal and enthusiastic,

938
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:07.360
<v Speaker 1>someone who just wanted to belong. On the morning he disappeared,

939
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:11.800
<v Speaker 1>Aaron thought he was doing something ordinary, helping install software,

940
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.280
<v Speaker 1>spending time with people that he trusted. There was no

941
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.280
<v Speaker 1>dramatic decision, no moment of hesitation, no warning that the

942
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:22.760
<v Speaker 1>path that he was stepping onto would be his last.

943
00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:27.400
<v Speaker 1>That is what makes this case so unsettling, not just

944
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:32.559
<v Speaker 1>how it ended, but how quietly it began. After his death,

945
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.559
<v Speaker 1>hundreds attended vigils and memorials in his name, people who

946
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.400
<v Speaker 1>had known him briefly, people who had known him well,

947
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.960
<v Speaker 1>people who'd never known him at all, but were shaken

948
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:46.519
<v Speaker 1>by what had happened to him. His stepmother later said

949
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:50.000
<v Speaker 1>something that stayed with many who heard it, that Erin

950
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.679
<v Speaker 1>seemed to have had more friends and death than he

951
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:56.559
<v Speaker 1>ever did in life. It wasn't meant bitterly. It was

952
00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:59.679
<v Speaker 1>a fact he struggled socially, as many people who on

953
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:02.880
<v Speaker 1>the spec do. In the end, he had so many

954
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.559
<v Speaker 1>people by his side willing to be there for him,

955
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 1>being a friend. What she said she said with a

956
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:14.079
<v Speaker 1>heavy heart and sadness, But it was also said with

957
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:17.159
<v Speaker 1>love and gratitude for those who came to pay their

958
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:23.400
<v Speaker 1>respects for Erin. Aaron Page did not seek that attention,

959
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 1>nor any for that matter. He did not chase notoriety.

960
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.400
<v Speaker 1>He did not want to be remembered for anything extraordinary.

961
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:36.480
<v Speaker 1>He simply wanted what we all want, connection, friendship, and

962
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:40.639
<v Speaker 1>a place to feel safe. The story of his murder

963
00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:43.320
<v Speaker 1>is so hard for many to accept because Erin was

964
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:47.480
<v Speaker 1>not killed due to who he was. No, he was

965
00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:51.320
<v Speaker 1>killed because someone wanted to feel power to them. He

966
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:54.199
<v Speaker 1>was a checkmark on a page filled with a list

967
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:59.039
<v Speaker 1>of cruel acts. And that's why his name matters. Because

968
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:02.239
<v Speaker 1>when everything else has stripped away, the planning, the evidence,

969
00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:05.079
<v Speaker 1>the trial and sentences, the story does not belong to

970
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.239
<v Speaker 1>the people who took his life and what they aspired

971
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:14.760
<v Speaker 1>to be. It belongs to Aaron. And that's a story

972
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:20.719
<v Speaker 1>of Aaron Lee Page sweetman, who that's.

973
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:23.719
<v Speaker 2>It gives me a lump in my throat that it's

974
00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:27.199
<v Speaker 2>just I could just sob it's so sad.

975
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I honestly I had a little trouble reading the end

976
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:31.159
<v Speaker 1>of that one.

977
00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, and the fact that I don't know, like

978
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.719
<v Speaker 2>you hope that he got to see that in some way,

979
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 2>how much how many people loved him, you know, and

980
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and how he had more friends I guess after death,

981
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:46.079
<v Speaker 2>which is sort of sad, but also like.

982
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:47.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a bittersweet moment.

983
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. And I just have

984
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:56.320
<v Speaker 2>to say, like it's unbelievable to me that how they

985
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.159
<v Speaker 2>who they picked for their victim. Yes, I mean, there's

986
00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:02.880
<v Speaker 2>so much cruelness in this, in this case and stuff,

987
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:06.000
<v Speaker 2>But what blows me out of the water is who

988
00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:09.960
<v Speaker 2>they picked, because that is just beyond fucked in my mind.

989
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, like I said, they picked him not for who

990
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:14.239
<v Speaker 1>he was. They picked him because they were looking for

991
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:16.639
<v Speaker 1>a check mark on a page. But they did pick

992
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:20.760
<v Speaker 1>him because he was vulnerable, because he was kind, because

993
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:21.480
<v Speaker 1>he was trusting.

994
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Well. And the fact though that she she would have

995
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:29.079
<v Speaker 2>had a child like probably the similar age yep, and

996
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:33.159
<v Speaker 2>they were friends, Like, are you kidding me? I don't know.

997
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:35.000
<v Speaker 2>That is just beyond maddening to me.

998
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.079
<v Speaker 1>And then she enlisted her child's hell to help.

999
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:43.639
<v Speaker 2>Bury Holy shit. Yeah yeah, monsters, I tell you, I know.

1000
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:48.760
<v Speaker 2>And Aaron just like seemed such like such a beautiful soul.

1001
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, it's this is just it's too much.

1002
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:53.320
<v Speaker 2>It's really sad, it really is.

1003
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:56.400
<v Speaker 1>But that's his story and I'm glad we got to

1004
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:56.920
<v Speaker 1>tell it though.

1005
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you did a very good job telling it. Thank you,

1006
00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:00.079
<v Speaker 2>well done.

1007
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:03.800
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. Well, thank you guys for being here.

1008
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:07.360
<v Speaker 1>We appreciate you. Hopefully you enjoyed this story. Hopefully you

1009
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:10.639
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed hearing Aaron's story, because that's what it is, Aaron's story,

1010
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:14.599
<v Speaker 1>not these pieces of douche canoe shit of women that.

1011
00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:16.239
<v Speaker 2>They are disgusting women.

1012
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Book them. Thank you for being here. We appreciate you.

1013
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:21.559
<v Speaker 1>Don't forget to check out the description for more information

1014
00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:24.480
<v Speaker 1>on our show. We got websites, socials, all that good stuff.

1015
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:27.159
<v Speaker 1>If you can leave us a review, that helps immensely.

1016
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:32.039
<v Speaker 1>We are an independent podcast, we are owned, produced research

1017
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to host all of it with just us. Not just us,

1018
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:38.440
<v Speaker 1>but just us. You know what I mean, it's us.

1019
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:41.719
<v Speaker 2>You corrected yourself before I had a chance to chime

1020
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:42.079
<v Speaker 2>in there.

1021
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:45.039
<v Speaker 1>You hate it when I say just but I think

1022
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:48.039
<v Speaker 1>it's a good way of framing the situation. Yes, it's

1023
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:49.920
<v Speaker 1>not just us, but it's just us.

1024
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:52.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, no, No, you framed it. I think maybe

1025
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the way that you said it made it seem better

1026
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:57.880
<v Speaker 2>this time, OK, Cadence in your voice or whatever.

1027
00:58:58.400 --> 00:58:59.159
<v Speaker 1>Just us like that?

1028
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, us, not just us, it's just us. Well, we

1029
00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:07.599
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you being here. Thank you so much, and until

1030
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:10.360
<v Speaker 2>next episode, stay wicked.