Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tribecast.
Speaker 2: I'm Eleanor Klibanoff, women's health reporter here at the Texas Tribune.
Speaker 2: I am here with editor in chief and my co host,
Speaker 2: Matthew Watkins.
Speaker 3: Hello there, Hey, how are you. I'm doing okay, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: we'll talk more about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're trying to keep the mood up. But we're
Speaker 2: also here with a politics reporter for now, James Varagon,
Speaker 2: also known as the Great Betrayer. Hi, Eleanor, Hello, you
Speaker 2: know we should say we're taping this on Friday. It
Speaker 2: is also James's last day at the Texas Tribune, and
Speaker 2: his last day is co host of the tripcast.
Speaker 3: And last day is friend to me and Eleanor.
Speaker 2: True exactly last day a person we look at, talk
Speaker 2: to engage with at all. The shunning begins at five pm,
Speaker 2: and then your happy hour begins at five thirty.
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll wait.
Speaker 2: It's a brief shutting, yes, but no. For those who
Speaker 2: don't know, James is leaving the Tribune to go host
Speaker 2: Capital Tonight at Spectrum News. We're very very excited for you.
Speaker 2: Glad you're staying in Austin and sad to lose you
Speaker 2: at the Tribune.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sad to go before before we get too
Speaker 4: far ahead of ourselves, I would like to say happy birthday,
Speaker 4: belated birthday. You missed the last trip cast, so happy birthday. Yes,
Speaker 4: very sad to be leaving the TEXTA Tribune had a
Speaker 4: great opportunity to hop over to Spectrum and be a
Speaker 4: host of Capital Tonight, which is a program that we
Speaker 4: I think we've all been on. We love and respect
Speaker 4: and yeah, excited for new adventures and a new medium.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is largely Matthew's fault because he said, hey,
Speaker 2: James eleanor do a podcast.
Speaker 1: It will put on YouTube. James got it. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were like, oh my god. He was like, I gotta
Speaker 1: be on TV full time.
Speaker 3: Cut the camera off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was no one else can get the taste
Speaker 1: of fame.
Speaker 3: We will miss you, James.
Speaker 5: Then, you've been a lot to the Tribune and you've
Speaker 5: done amazing work and we're really proud of you, excited
Speaker 5: that we'll still get to see you and watch you.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I'll miss you, guys, and I
Speaker 4: hope to have you guys on the show sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us a little bit. I mean, you've been
Speaker 2: Tribune a long time. What is uh was a memory
Speaker 2: that stands out to you from your time here?
Speaker 3: Favorite coworker Patrick v Tech.
Speaker 2: To us also to us that you guys can join
Speaker 2: your little alumni council.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, I don't know that I have one
Speaker 4: favorite memory. The treasure, as we say, is the friends
Speaker 4: you make along the way. My co host Eleanor Klibanoff
Speaker 4: really has become a great friend of mine. Kate McGee
Speaker 4: also a great friend. It's just a great group of
Speaker 4: people to work with, a very supportive newsroom. Yeah, like
Speaker 4: I said, uh, I've done a lot of great work here,
Speaker 4: had a lot of personal growth. And I'll miss you guys,
Speaker 4: And I'll miss the readers in the audience because they're
Speaker 4: so engaged and so vocal and so supportive. So I
Speaker 4: will miss that.
Speaker 3: I think most of our readers know this.
Speaker 5: But if and listeners know this, but if they want
Speaker 5: to keep watching you, how will they be able to
Speaker 5: do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can watch on Spectrum TV on cable and
Speaker 4: the show is on it's called Capital Tonight. If you
Speaker 4: don't know it, it's at seven o'clock Monday through Friday.
Speaker 4: And I'll be there. I'll be doing a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks of training doing just on the job reporting before
Speaker 4: taking over the anchor chair in early to mid April.
Speaker 1: Do you how long have you been covering the text legislature?
Speaker 4: Been covering the Texas legislature since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Okay, eight years and I know you're not leaving the
Speaker 2: Texas Legislature, but eight years.
Speaker 1: Four sessions, five sessions, five sessions.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you have any sense of like,
Speaker 2: have things changed in that time that you've been covering it?
Speaker 1: Seen any big shifts?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we've had three different speakers, four different
Speaker 4: speakers in that time, so that's changed. We've talked a
Speaker 4: lot on the show about the right word lurch that
Speaker 4: the Texas House has taken. You know, when I first
Speaker 4: came in, it was under Joe Strauss, who was a
Speaker 4: much more moderate speaker. That was a bad word back then,
Speaker 4: but he certainly was a moderate. Stopped a lot of
Speaker 4: the kind of legislation that we're seeing now with bathroom bills,
Speaker 4: and I think it just speaks to how politics have
Speaker 4: moved in the state of Texas, to how the House
Speaker 4: is built and what bills are being taken up. But
Speaker 4: you know, that's how life is. I mean, things change,
Speaker 4: but it's still one of the best state houses to cover,
Speaker 4: probably the best state house to cover in the country.
Speaker 4: So much consequential policy passes, and so I'm super excited
Speaker 4: to keep covering it and for to keep following your
Speaker 4: guys' work because you guys are the best day Well,
Speaker 4: thank you.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: No, But turning now to the Texas Legislature, I mean,
Speaker 2: this week, I think we're just kind of gonna run
Speaker 2: through some of what we've seen happening. We've done a
Speaker 2: couple of episodes sort of focusing on specific issues, and
Speaker 2: while we've been doing that, a lot has happened at
Speaker 2: the Capitol. So you know, things are really starting to
Speaker 2: fly now. The Senate is moving through its priorities, sparks
Speaker 2: are flying in House committee hearings, and we're going to
Speaker 2: really start seeing things move now pretty quickly. Matthew talked
Speaker 2: about sort of where we are right now and what
Speaker 2: comes next.
Speaker 5: I think as I've talked to people who work in
Speaker 5: the capital in recent days, the big thing that people
Speaker 5: are talking about is how calm and friendly it's been
Speaker 5: so far. I mean, we've had a few little moments
Speaker 5: of flair effs, we'll talk to you. But I think
Speaker 5: after this just incredibly tense primary season back in March
Speaker 5: to the Republican primary, a lot of members ousted, then
Speaker 5: a incredibly intense run up to the start of the
Speaker 5: session fighting over the House Speaker, we get Dustin Burrows.
Speaker 5: He is on the other side of the sort of
Speaker 5: you know, insurgent wing of the Republican Party, but he
Speaker 5: has taken a lot of effort to reach out to
Speaker 5: that wing, but even maybe more so Governor Abbott and
Speaker 5: Dan Patrick and try to kind of make peace. He's been,
Speaker 5: you know, appearing on stage with Abbott on voucher meetings, rallies.
Speaker 5: He's been, you know, working kind of in concert or
Speaker 5: at least not an opposition to Dan Patrick in the Senate.
Speaker 5: And I think that there's a lot of optimism among
Speaker 5: people in the Senate and just around the legislature in general,
Speaker 5: at least on the Republican side, that that maybe we
Speaker 5: can get through a sort of calm, peaceful legislation session
Speaker 5: instead of one that breaks down into fighting.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: The caveat is that it's you know, early March, and
Speaker 5: where we will really see that test is later in
Speaker 5: the session when things go through. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: and there's lots of potential areas for it to blow up.
Speaker 5: You know, there's still things that need to be ironed
Speaker 5: out in the voucher bill. I'm sure we'll talk about that.
Speaker 5: There's differing views on property taxes and everything like that.
Speaker 5: But so far they seem at least willing to work
Speaker 5: with each other, the Big three having their you know,
Speaker 5: weekly breakfasts, which wasn't happening last session. And to me,
Speaker 5: the big question is well that stick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's still early on. I did
Speaker 4: have that realization like this week where I was just
Speaker 4: talking to somebody at the Capital Cafe shout out Capital Cafe,
Speaker 4: and they were like, Wow, things are really getting going now,
Speaker 4: Like there's deadlines are coming up. Bill foundin deadlines I
Speaker 4: think are next week. So things are getting going. At
Speaker 4: the same time, things haven't moved that much. I mean,
Speaker 4: we're talking about vouchers, we're talking about the Senate priorities
Speaker 4: flying out of the Senate, but that kind of.
Speaker 1: Is always right, almost administrative.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and then like the Senate voucher Bill hasn't
Speaker 4: moved in the House. The House is moving its own thing.
Speaker 4: The committees are barely starting to meet and have their
Speaker 4: organizational meetings, so nobody can really say like, wow, my
Speaker 4: bill hasn't moved. Nobody's really has that anger in them yet.
Speaker 4: Everybody had nice committee appointments, so everybody's like in this
Speaker 4: feel good era. But I think maybe over the next
Speaker 4: month or two we're going to start seeing people outside
Speaker 4: of representive Brian Harrison and his crew start getting upset.
Speaker 4: If things don't start.
Speaker 5: I just want to just remark briefly though, on what
Speaker 5: seems to be a talent of Dustin Burrows to make
Speaker 5: peace with folks. Right, we all remember, or many of us,
Speaker 5: I'm sure remember the scandal that brought down Speaker Bonnin
Speaker 5: back in twenty nineteen where he has a secret meeting
Speaker 5: with Michael quinn Sullivan, the conservative activist, in which Burrows
Speaker 5: comes along with him, presents a sort of secret list
Speaker 5: of Republican members of the Republican Party who MQS can target.
Speaker 5: Michael quinn Sullivan secretly records this meeting, it goes out,
Speaker 5: it creates this big scandal, Burrows has to resign as
Speaker 5: Republican Caucus Chair, and Bonnin ends up, you know, losing
Speaker 5: his speakership. Over that that I think, you know, you
Speaker 5: have to look at as a pretty low point for Burrows.
Speaker 5: He found a way to kind of bring himself back
Speaker 5: up into leadership, ended up winning the speaker's gavel, which
Speaker 5: is a pretty amazing thing just in and of itself.
Speaker 5: Then you have in the early session, you know, the
Speaker 5: billionaire Alex Fairley talking about how he's gonna essentially, you know,
Speaker 5: signaling that he's going to go after people who vote
Speaker 5: for the sort of leadership wing of the GOP in
Speaker 5: the House speaker's race. And then right before that vote,
Speaker 5: he puts out a statement that seems to kind of
Speaker 5: back away from that and almost give people permission to
Speaker 5: vote for Burrows Fairli's including Fairly's daughter who casts that vote.
Speaker 5: And now you know, again at least it's early. I
Speaker 5: will again acknowledge that, and we have to acknowledge that
Speaker 5: every time we talk about it. But now he seems,
Speaker 5: at least for now to be getting along with Dan Patrick.
Speaker 5: And that is an impressive skill by this speaker to
Speaker 5: to you know, that I think will help him accomplish
Speaker 5: things and just sort of like put the House in
Speaker 5: a different position than maybe it has seemed in recent years.
Speaker 2: Do you think that to some extent just comes down
Speaker 2: to like personality, like who he is, Like you know,
Speaker 2: is he more of a peacemaker maybe than Daid feel
Speaker 2: and you know, who was very much at odds Or
Speaker 2: is it the political landscape that they're the sam they're in.
Speaker 3: I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that. Jams.
Speaker 4: My thoughts are that he's not new to this, he's
Speaker 4: true to this and so.
Speaker 1: This is how you get a TV contract.
Speaker 4: No, I mean he is a very very savvy political player.
Speaker 4: One thing that you did point out, Matthew is that
Speaker 4: a couple of the people on his pledge list or
Speaker 4: people that he targeted in that twenty nineteen styles So
Speaker 4: you look at folks like Drew Darby, you look at
Speaker 4: folks like Stan Lambert and say, man, what did this
Speaker 4: guy do? How did this guy talk to them? What
Speaker 4: has he done in the last couple of years to
Speaker 4: get those guys to come over to his side? That
Speaker 4: is remarkable for a politician to be able to do
Speaker 4: that that turnaround. He's very savvy. He we had a
Speaker 4: profile of him talking about how relentless he is. He's
Speaker 4: very organized. He doesn't just sit around and wait, and
Speaker 4: he also is it's not I wouldn't say he's the
Speaker 4: friendliest personality, but he is a very straight shooter, and
Speaker 4: when it's a no, he's going to tell you it's
Speaker 4: to know. When it's a yeah, he's going to tell
Speaker 4: you it's a yeah. But he doesn't stop at no.
Speaker 4: He's like, Okay, it's a no, now, but here are five, six, seven, eight,
Speaker 4: ten things we can do to get it to a yes.
Speaker 4: And that's the kind of person that you need to
Speaker 4: be in the capital to get stuff done. And that's
Speaker 4: the person that he has shown to be.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the kind of person you need to be,
Speaker 5: particularly in the speaker's chair, right, because we always talk
Speaker 5: about how the Lieutenant governor is perhaps the most powerful
Speaker 5: person in the state, particularly during the legislative session. And
Speaker 5: one of the reasons for that is structural, right, because
Speaker 5: he's elected by the people, right, he's not elected by
Speaker 5: the other members of the Senate, so he can preside
Speaker 5: over it without worrying about angering enough lawmakers that they'll
Speaker 5: end up voting him out. And that's a much more
Speaker 5: comfortable and just ap perch with more leverage than the
Speaker 5: House speaker, who has to you know, I mean, we've
Speaker 5: seen this repeatedly over recent years. Has to keep those
Speaker 5: members happy in order to keep them going, and he
Speaker 5: just seems to be pretty good at that.
Speaker 4: You've got to serve two masters, and serving the people
Speaker 4: who elect you to your House seat, but then also
Speaker 4: the other one hundred and forty nine members who are
Speaker 4: going to elect you as House Speaker. And he again,
Speaker 4: he has this political talent for turning nose into yeses.
Speaker 4: And that's kind of what you need when you have
Speaker 4: that dynamic between the House and the Senate, which is
Speaker 4: often at odds, especially with the Lieutenant governor like Dan Patrick,
Speaker 4: who is just we've talked about this, we've used this
Speaker 4: phrase before. He rules with an iron fist. But you know,
Speaker 4: Dennis Bondon was also really good at this. He was wiley,
Speaker 4: he was very smart. And it's because they had been
Speaker 4: chairman of big committees and had led had authored big bills,
Speaker 4: had known where the levers were to pull to make
Speaker 4: things go. And I think this is the dynamic that
Speaker 4: there is. And importantly, Lieutenant Governor Patrick respects that he
Speaker 4: knows that he's a player. He knows that he can't
Speaker 4: just go above his head or bully him on Twitter.
Speaker 4: We haven't seen those kinds of messages, and so that
Speaker 4: is a dynamic that is playing out now. Of course,
Speaker 4: again the caveat what is going to be a relationship,
Speaker 4: Like in June, you can play this back.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, right, roll this right back. Yeah, yeah, no, certainly.
Speaker 2: I mean I think we're seeing at least like friendlier. Also,
Speaker 2: there is a lot that they are in agreement on, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's easier to be friendly when you are all you're
Speaker 2: at least in you know, the Big three are all
Speaker 2: saying we all want vouchers, we all want property text cuts.
Speaker 2: We're going to have some conflict over how we do that,
Speaker 2: but like we're all kind of on the.
Speaker 4: Same People sleep on this. But Dustin Burrows is a
Speaker 4: very strong conservative. I mean people will try to in
Speaker 4: certain interests, will try to convince you that he is not.
Speaker 4: But I mean I get emails from people in his
Speaker 4: district saying like this guy is a dyed in the
Speaker 4: wool like red as blood conservative, And that's why they
Speaker 4: get along. That's why they are in such agreement on
Speaker 4: these issues. Whereas, again going back to our earlier comment
Speaker 4: about when I started covering it was Joe Strauss. He
Speaker 4: was not as conservative. He was a more traditional like
Speaker 4: Reagan Republican, George Bush Republican. Uh, these are much more
Speaker 4: socially conservative lawmakers. And that's why they're don't want right.
Speaker 2: I mean, the gap between Joe Strauss and Dustin Burroughs
Speaker 2: versus Dustin Burroughs and say David Cook is you know,
Speaker 2: Strauss and Burrows much wider.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking about vouchers, you know, we're not going to.
Speaker 4: Get into the whole segue.
Speaker 1: That's what we call a segue.
Speaker 2: And in the biz, uh, you know, we've got all
Speaker 2: the big three, we're all agreeing on vouchers.
Speaker 1: Everybody's all so happy.
Speaker 2: James, where does that stand right now? In this pre
Speaker 2: uh you know, the warm up period.
Speaker 4: I think it's uh, you know, when you're making pasta
Speaker 4: and like you got to let the water boil a
Speaker 4: little bit. That's where we're at right now, because everybody
Speaker 4: is like, Okay, this thing is moving.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: The Senate bill has passed the Senate. Now we've got
Speaker 4: the House bill. Weirdly, like, tell me what your thoughts
Speaker 4: are on this, man, but like the education advocates are
Speaker 4: sort of kind of quiet. Yeah, and Jayden had a
Speaker 4: really great story about the the Democrats, like top leaders
Speaker 4: on voucher stuff, sort of saying like, you guys are
Speaker 4: being too nice, like if you need money, you come
Speaker 4: out swinging right. And it's it's sort of a Dayton
Speaker 4: or a little bit of an under the radar kind
Speaker 4: of battle that they're fighting because they don't want to
Speaker 4: tick off the state officials who basically control their purse
Speaker 4: strings because they really desperately need the money. But also
Speaker 4: it's like vouchers could really hurt their public schools, and
Speaker 4: this is what they say, maybe not publicly, but they
Speaker 4: certainly say it privately to us, right, And so I
Speaker 4: think it's it's that part. But then there's and I
Speaker 4: think Republicans are pretty confident that it's going to pass.
Speaker 4: But then you're also seeing folks like Cody Harris and
Speaker 4: Brad Buckley getting booed on stage, getting shouted down at
Speaker 4: their own town halls. I saw Carl Tepper isn't even
Speaker 4: doing a town hall. He's doing kind of a moderated
Speaker 4: radio appearance. Because there is starting to be some pressure,
Speaker 4: and you know, things are starting to the rubber is
Speaker 4: hitting the road, and so we're really getting to see
Speaker 4: like what the actual proposals look like, what impacts it's
Speaker 4: going to have, and I think the fight is just beginning.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think going back to the comment about the
Speaker 5: schools maybe not being you know, fighting as much, I
Speaker 5: think that's an interesting observation and it kind of goes
Speaker 5: back to something I've talked about on the podcast before,
Speaker 5: which is, you know, they successfully quote unquote successfully blocked
Speaker 5: vouchers last session, and what it got them was, you know,
Speaker 5: losing access to billions of dollars in additional state funding,
Speaker 5: about a dozen of their strongest school's strongest supporters in
Speaker 5: the Republican Party losing their primary seats, and you know,
Speaker 5: vouchers likely getting passed two years later. Anyways, Right, And
Speaker 5: so I wonder I haven't talked to anyone about this,
Speaker 5: but I wonder whether there's a sort of like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is probably going to happen. Let's stop this fight
Speaker 5: and let's focus on getting what we can get, which
Speaker 5: is basically that since twenty nineteen, when the state passed
Speaker 5: you know, a major campaign or sorry, school finance overhaul
Speaker 5: and really significantly boosted up school funding, that funding has
Speaker 5: not kept up with inflation since then and if you
Speaker 5: watch from twenty twenty where it kind of hit a
Speaker 5: high water mark until now, if you're talking in real dollars,
Speaker 5: and you know, twenty twenty five dollars accounting for inflation,
Speaker 5: the school funding has dropped about ten billion dollars from
Speaker 5: the state during that time, and so these schools, and
Speaker 5: it's important to note that that happened during really, really
Speaker 5: financially healthy times for the state, where there were unprecedented
Speaker 5: levels of school of state surpluses and funds. Right, and
Speaker 5: so if I'm a school official, I'm thinking, you know,
Speaker 5: we're not in great shape during really strong, you know,
Speaker 5: economic times for this state. We're not always going to
Speaker 5: be in strong economic times. We need to be getting
Speaker 5: as much money as possible right now, and we probably
Speaker 5: need to do it by not antagonizing the people who
Speaker 5: actually control the purse strings. And you know, there is
Speaker 5: a good amount of money on the table for these
Speaker 5: schools this year, and maybe the equation here is let's
Speaker 5: focus on that and not the one billion dollars on vouchers.
Speaker 4: Of course, the other side of it is, well, do
Speaker 4: we take the money in the short term and then,
Speaker 4: according to them, allow vouchers to pass, which will in
Speaker 4: the long term hurt our schools in our school districts.
Speaker 4: And that seems to be the decision that they've made,
Speaker 4: like we need this money so desperately right now that
Speaker 4: we are willing to sort of just be quiet, take
Speaker 4: the money, and we'll deal with the voucher stuff later.
Speaker 4: And I think they're also hoping that other people will
Speaker 4: fight that fight for them. I think even within the
Speaker 4: Democratic Caucus there's that feeling of like, well, it's going
Speaker 4: to pass anyway, so let's, you know, get the victories
Speaker 4: that we can. And then there's like the three you
Speaker 4: know public education people, Taller Rico, you know, Hosa and
Speaker 4: John Bryant just going to the mats. But even they
Speaker 4: were frustrated in that here and they're like, if you
Speaker 4: guys need the money, then you guys might like, we're
Speaker 4: not just gonna be out here for well at least
Speaker 4: you know, you know, hosts said that we're not just
Speaker 4: gonna be out here fighting if you guys aren't going
Speaker 4: to fight. So it's a very interesting dynamic.
Speaker 5: James, do you what do you think about these town halls,
Speaker 5: like is that do you think lawmakers are worried about them?
Speaker 5: And do you think they should be they.
Speaker 4: Should be worried about them. I mean, I was very
Speaker 4: interested to see Cody Harris's town hall. I mean I
Speaker 4: saw some videos of that one, and yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: I mean, these are rural districts, and and you know,
Speaker 4: the messaging from the governor's team and from Republican leaders
Speaker 4: is like the polling works. The polling people in rural
Speaker 4: areas support that. The town halls showed that perhaps not
Speaker 4: everybody supports them, that there's a very vocal group of
Speaker 4: people who don't support it. So I think that does
Speaker 4: sort of worry legislators. I mean, do I think they're
Speaker 4: going to change their mind? I don't think so, but
Speaker 4: it is starting to show some of those cracks. And
Speaker 4: I think we've talked about this before, but some of
Speaker 4: these new freshmen who are newly elected and say yes
Speaker 4: school choice, school choice. Well it's easy to say yes
Speaker 4: school choice when you don't have specifics. But then when
Speaker 4: you have a school superintendent or a school principal saying
Speaker 4: I got to close three schools in the district and
Speaker 4: you're only going to have one school district or a
Speaker 4: school in the district left like, it gets a lot
Speaker 4: tougher when you get the specifics.
Speaker 2: Right, I think you can get kind of that like
Speaker 2: dome blindness, like you're under you know, you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: the only thing that matters is like what's happening here
Speaker 2: and like trading votes and all that, and then you
Speaker 2: go back to your district and you're getting yelled out
Speaker 2: the town town at all, Like.
Speaker 4: The person who like, you know, does your laundry is like.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean in a area like the superintendent you know,
Speaker 2: could be like a very powerful person and.
Speaker 4: Your or your friends and neighbors are mattitude. It does,
Speaker 4: you know, it does make you think.
Speaker 1: So there's a little more like logistics, you know.
Speaker 4: But the other thing too is that like some of
Speaker 4: these lawmakers could also add tweaks and amendments to the
Speaker 4: legislation that could and I think they're probably looking to
Speaker 4: do that that could assuage some of those concerns. So
Speaker 4: there's probably that, But it's awful to take the heat obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely feels like there's a little bit of
Speaker 2: like critically you know, from some Democrats, also from some
Speaker 2: of the education activists, like just sort of a sense
Speaker 2: of like this is going to happen like, let's just
Speaker 2: like find ways we can tweak.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think also there's just a lot of
Speaker 5: we're what these town halls are reflective of is the
Speaker 5: energy starting to re emerge in the democratic or more
Speaker 5: moderate area of Texas politics, right.
Speaker 4: And those are rural Republican areas.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and I mean exactly. You know, you know
Speaker 5: when Trump was first elected in twenty sixteen, you saw
Speaker 5: that kind of you know, the Women's March all this,
Speaker 5: like people literally out in the streets, and we did
Speaker 5: not immediately see that this time, but we're starting to
Speaker 5: see that in the And you know, if I'm a Republican,
Speaker 5: I might worry a little bit about that, right because
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen was not a great election year for them,
Speaker 5: and you know, maybe they're some energy popping up. Maybe
Speaker 5: I want to get some bills out there that I
Speaker 5: can point to and say, yeah, you maybe not might
Speaker 5: not like school vouchers, but look at this, you know,
Speaker 5: five thousand dollars rais we did for teachers. Look at this,
Speaker 5: these billions of dollars we put into public schools.
Speaker 4: Anyways, Yeah, and the other thing that I don't want
Speaker 4: to like let pass before commenting is as the details
Speaker 4: come out, like what you're talking about, the detail about
Speaker 4: the prioritization that there is in the House versus the Senate,
Speaker 4: where there isn't a real prioritization. But a person who
Speaker 4: or a family that makes one hundred and fifty six
Speaker 4: thousand dollars can still qualify for these school vouchers and
Speaker 4: they're calling that a low income family. I think that's
Speaker 4: going to rile a lot of people up and people say,
Speaker 4: like one hundred and fifty six thousand dollars is low income,
Speaker 4: Like it really kind of speaks to sort of the.
Speaker 5: Design of the bill, right, and that does seem to
Speaker 5: be where the tension is right, Like the thing they
Speaker 5: need to figure out the most in order to get
Speaker 5: this across the finish line is that.
Speaker 4: The send it seems to think like it's fine, we
Speaker 4: want to offer it to everybody like that. This is
Speaker 4: this is in fairness, it's universal, it's universal for everybody.
Speaker 4: And the House is being a little bit more like
Speaker 4: maybe more careful about those optics because they're getting lit
Speaker 4: up by their districts.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 2: I asked for a brief update on vouchers, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: I just want the listeners to know I am fighting
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 1: I do want to jump.
Speaker 2: Ahead a little bit and talk about another big story
Speaker 2: from this week. We saw State Representative Brian Harrison. There
Speaker 2: was this committee meeting where things got pretty tense. He
Speaker 2: was sort of repeatedly pressing the Texas Water Development Board
Speaker 2: chair Loreal Stepney about the role of race in state
Speaker 2: hiring practices, and this really sort of blew up. I mean, Stepanie,
Speaker 2: who is black, was visibly distraught, very upset, wiping tears
Speaker 2: from her eyes while Harrison sort of continued to push
Speaker 2: on this issue. We saw a big outpouring of support
Speaker 2: for you know, the board chair Stephanie, from Governor Abbot,
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Governor Patrick, Speaker Burroughs. Harrison did not back down,
Speaker 2: you know, claim said his he felt like his questions
Speaker 2: were perfect.
Speaker 3: That's a familiar word to describe things like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, right.
Speaker 3: It reminds me of another politician, James.
Speaker 2: What did you make of I mean, this seems like
Speaker 2: an outlier in terms of the kind of clash we
Speaker 2: tooplacy between an agency head and lawmaker.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I think there was calls from leaders.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: Speaker Burroughs kind of called it out, uh in terms
Speaker 4: of like being on a committee and the kind of
Speaker 4: decorum and respect that is expected. But I thought it
Speaker 4: was noteworthy that both Patrick and Abbot, who are no
Speaker 4: snowflakes on de I. There's certainly no supporters of de I.
Speaker 1: There i Abbot's executive order, that we're talking.
Speaker 4: With their opponents of DEI. But they were saying that this,
Speaker 4: I mean they didn't. For example, Abbat didn't say like
Speaker 4: this went overboard, but he did express sort of support
Speaker 4: for Stepney, and I think you have to read him
Speaker 4: between the lines.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: The other thing for listeners is like Representative Harrison is
Speaker 4: one of like the most conservative social warrior that there is,
Speaker 4: and this is his his I don't know, pep issue, Pep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like a bomb thrower kind of and he's.
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm going to be the DEI guy. I'm
Speaker 4: going to track the police every at every stage. And
Speaker 4: the questioning was I sort of see where he's getting
Speaker 4: what he's getting at saying like I didn't say anything
Speaker 4: specifically about her or that she was a.
Speaker 1: D He was like threading this very fine needle, right.
Speaker 4: But the the takeaway from it was very much sort
Speaker 4: of like are you a de I hire are you
Speaker 4: supporting DEI hires? Is DEI a part of your system?
Speaker 4: And I think because she's a person of color also,
Speaker 4: it sort of was putting her on the spot, maybe unfairly,
Speaker 4: and people on the committee called it out. I mean
Speaker 4: Representative Harrison obviously said he felt like the questioning was perfect,
Speaker 4: but seeing so many other lawmakers say, hey, this went
Speaker 4: too far, I think you've got to pause and think
Speaker 4: about that. And making an agency head cry who's served
Speaker 4: for thirty years and this has not happened to her,
Speaker 4: I think you've got to pause and think about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Harrison is a really interesting example of would you
Speaker 5: agree with me that it's fair to say that he's
Speaker 5: a bit of a backbencher in the House in terms
Speaker 5: of influence. Yes, he has still managed to with this
Speaker 5: DEI push that he's doing anti d I de I
Speaker 5: push that he's doing, have a lot of influence on
Speaker 5: state government. I mean, he's really up in some university
Speaker 5: leaders heads.
Speaker 4: Texas A and M.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, his alma mater.
Speaker 5: He you know, as you know, finds these emails or
Speaker 5: individual program starts tweeting about them, and it draws a response.
Speaker 5: It draws a response from the port of Regents at times,
Speaker 5: the governor and everything like that. He's it's a sort
Speaker 5: of like modern something you see in DC frankly a
Speaker 5: lot someone who's maybe not necessarily like getting a lot
Speaker 5: of legislation through, but getting a ton of attention and
Speaker 5: actually being able to create some movement on things just
Speaker 5: by sort of activating a certain wing of the party
Speaker 5: on the internet by pointing to these things.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's done this with like very specific both
Speaker 1: subtly dying.
Speaker 2: He's done this I think on like really like before
Speaker 2: the session, you know, in the interim, like on very
Speaker 2: specific things. I like, you know where he's like posting
Speaker 2: on Twitter about you know, this is on you know,
Speaker 2: a policy on some agency's website, and then he's calling
Speaker 2: out the governor, telling his.
Speaker 1: Supporters to call out the governor.
Speaker 2: He's like calling and then the governor will sweep in
Speaker 2: and change things right.
Speaker 5: One thing that was different this time is that it
Speaker 5: wasn't on Twitter. It was face to face with a
Speaker 5: black woman in a position of power, and you kind
Speaker 5: of got to see how she was reacting to that
Speaker 5: and how it felt to her to be kind of
Speaker 5: receiving that line of attacking.
Speaker 4: Twitter is in real life, as we say, and like Twitter,
Speaker 4: Like I mean, this agency head is clearly very busy
Speaker 4: giving the state like water. She's probably not on Twitter
Speaker 4: all the time listening to these things. But then you
Speaker 4: got to see exactly what you're saying, like the reaction
Speaker 4: when people say these things to you and to your face,
Speaker 4: and it's it's hurtful stuff. I think I want to
Speaker 4: shout out a Jundra Martinez, our colleague, who I think
Speaker 4: did a really really great job of saying, this is
Speaker 4: sort of a build out of the atmosphere that we're
Speaker 4: in with diversity, equity and inclusion, where politicians are targeting it,
Speaker 4: folks like Representative Harrison screamed from the rooftops, and then
Speaker 4: are higher officials then react and do something, and so
Speaker 4: there it becomes a cycle, right, it becomes a cycle.
Speaker 4: And so this this is the natural build out of that.
Speaker 4: And perhaps it's a moment not just to say that
Speaker 4: moment was bad, but also to think about the broader
Speaker 4: issue here.
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean this whole you know, yes,
Speaker 2: this is representive Brian Harrison sort of, this is his
Speaker 2: m O kind of, but it was he was citing
Speaker 2: and building on the momentum around Governor Abbot's executive order
Speaker 2: removing DEI from state agencies, and you know, yes, like
Speaker 2: Governor Abbott stepped into the you know, board chair Stepanese
Speaker 2: defense basically saying like she's the best expert we have
Speaker 2: on water on this hugely important issue.
Speaker 4: But it is like that meme. It's like who would
Speaker 4: do this right, right, right right?
Speaker 2: The underlying thing is that, you know, I think Governor
Speaker 2: Abbot has certainly empowered this crusade of Brian Harrison's through
Speaker 2: this executive order, and you know, I think we're probably
Speaker 2: just going to see more clashes like this. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, my sense, at least on Twitter. Again, Twitter
Speaker 2: is not real life, but Governor Abbott has been much
Speaker 2: more assertive and vocal on Twitter on like a range
Speaker 2: of issues, and you know, I think that comes from
Speaker 2: the very very top right we're seeing, you know, President
Speaker 2: Trump is sort of engendering a lot of that rhetoric,
Speaker 2: and so I think Governor Abbitt stepping in to say,
Speaker 2: like in this case, that was maybe too far, even
Speaker 2: if you wouldn't use those words, is something.
Speaker 1: But you know, the underlying.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think we're gonna anticipate Brian Harrison
Speaker 2: being sort of chagrined by that. Yeah, yeah, Matthew, what
Speaker 2: the hell is happening at the lottery?
Speaker 3: That is an excellent question.
Speaker 5: So the this this is like, this feels like just
Speaker 5: like a fun old school It really does.
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is like a joy.
Speaker 2: It really is like one of those things that you're like,
Speaker 2: it feels like a heist movie that now the Texas
Speaker 2: Legislature has to get involved in. And I think we
Speaker 2: one every session, get one little treat story like this.
Speaker 5: So the background here is that we have this concept
Speaker 5: of lottery couriers, which is basically a you can go
Speaker 5: on to an app you can be anywhere, I guess
Speaker 5: anywhere in the world, not just in the US, and
Speaker 5: buy a lottery ticket and someone will will go buy
Speaker 5: the ticket for you and take a picture of it
Speaker 5: for you, and then you know, I guess if it wins,
Speaker 5: they will either go collect the money for you and
Speaker 5: send it to you or mail the ticket to you
Speaker 5: wherever you are.
Speaker 2: And so this is one of those things that until
Speaker 2: we find out about what happens next, do you think.
Speaker 1: Like, who is that Who's that desperate to play the lottery?
Speaker 2: That they're like, I need someone to do this third
Speaker 2: hand for me, but you're kind of like it seems inoffensive, especially.
Speaker 4: Because they don't even let it paid for my tickets
Speaker 4: with a credit card, like I have to pay them
Speaker 4: with cash. Then I hear about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you a lottery player, James?
Speaker 4: Not anymore?
Speaker 1: Okay when it gets big? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 5: I buy lottery tickets and put them in my children
Speaker 5: and wife's stalking every Christmas. So I'm once a year.
Speaker 2: And that's Christmas in the Watkins house and make your
Speaker 2: own luck, keep them right.
Speaker 5: So anyways, lottery couriers. So what has happened though, is
Speaker 5: that there was this particular situation. The Houston Chronicle wrote
Speaker 5: a great story about this where essentially some folks essentially
Speaker 5: found that they could game the system. And there are
Speaker 5: times where you can essentially buy a massive volume of
Speaker 5: tickets in order to essentially like work the odds and
Speaker 5: you know, I think, like practically like sort of guarantee
Speaker 5: that you're going to win something. One of them.
Speaker 2: They bought every single number, yeah, exactly everything, combination numbers,
Speaker 2: and so this.
Speaker 5: Has now raised concern. There's this one place, a store
Speaker 5: called Winner's corner in Austin that in twenty twenty two
Speaker 5: sold eighty nine million dollars worth of lottery tickets, which
Speaker 5: is about eighty three million dollars in lottery tickets than
Speaker 5: the second highestwhere else. And so Dan Patrick, you know,
Speaker 5: this has come up a little bit. The Chronicle has
Speaker 5: done some good reporting on this. The Sunset Commission wrote
Speaker 5: a report on this in the in the state, leading
Speaker 5: Dan Patrick to show up to the Winner's Corner again
Speaker 5: on Twitter with making a video kind of talking to
Speaker 5: the folks seeing what he described as sort of a
Speaker 5: massive number of these lottery lotto machines, which I can
Speaker 5: tell as a tell you from a Christmas buyer, are
Speaker 5: not very reliable and sometimes only come halfway torn up
Speaker 5: so you.
Speaker 3: Can't even read the numbers.
Speaker 5: Then your your daughter is really upset on Christmas because
Speaker 5: she doesn't know whether she's gonna win the lottery or not.
Speaker 1: Santa's complaints are reaching new levels.
Speaker 5: But ultimately this has led to the resignation resignation of
Speaker 5: one of the lottery commissioners. There is a lot of
Speaker 5: talk about possibly banning these couriers, other kinds of legislation investigation.
Speaker 5: There's a Texas Rangers investigation. Yes, so just a lot
Speaker 5: of concern about the Lottery Commission here, and you know,
Speaker 5: whether it should even continue to exist. There are some
Speaker 5: all makers who would like to get rid of an.
Speaker 4: Entirely now a priority item for the Lieutenant Governor. And
Speaker 4: I think it's going to get heard in Former Speaker Feelings.
Speaker 4: A similar issue is going to get heard on speak
Speaker 4: Former Speaker Feelings Committee. So it's moving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely moving.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: We should say Eric Dexheimer and the Houston Chronicle did
Speaker 2: a lot of this reporting initially, and you know, we
Speaker 2: owe him our thanks because we love a little heist story.
Speaker 5: And if there are any agents out there, Eleanor is
Speaker 5: looking to sell a screenplay.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I've got the wheels already turning, and I
Speaker 2: feel like Eric should get first bite at that, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a crazy story that is moving pretty
Speaker 2: quickly through the legislature.
Speaker 1: There's been this, you know.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing of the Lottery Commission for a long
Speaker 2: time has said that they cannot regulate these couriers. Now
Speaker 2: there we can regulate these careers. It's been a little yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is interesting that it's coming along in a
Speaker 5: time where there's also a big push to expand gambling
Speaker 5: the state. I think this probably doesn't do great for
Speaker 5: that cause.
Speaker 4: One thing that it will point out is that the
Speaker 4: Sunset Commission had pointed out all these issues with the
Speaker 4: Lottery Commission, like their their last report I think last
Speaker 4: year was like this is this is not going right. So,
Speaker 4: you know, I think lawmakers can sort of be upset
Speaker 4: and yelling and doing some investigative reporting on it, but
Speaker 4: these problems existed and they existed under their watch.
Speaker 2: Feels like a strong endorsement for you know, things are
Speaker 2: only a problem once the media gets involved. You know,
Speaker 2: we create problems, No, but I do think you know,
Speaker 2: they shine a light on it, and it's one of
Speaker 2: those things that is like pretty shocking when you get
Speaker 2: into the details involved, like Malta and some Brits and people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the screenplay rights itself is all I'm saying, you know,
Speaker 2: one last thing to sort of throw up, just to
Speaker 2: discuss before we you know, wrap this up. A lot
Speaker 2: is happening on the federal level that is trickling down
Speaker 2: into Texas as all we saw. Vice President Vance was
Speaker 2: here this week at the border along with Governor Abbott
Speaker 2: and Attorney General Paxton. You know, we obviously saw the
Speaker 2: speech from President Trump in which immigration was front and center.
Speaker 2: Anything standing out to you on that that we feel
Speaker 2: like is gonna you know, we've got a Doge committee now.
Speaker 2: Definitely feels like Texas is following in some federal footsteps
Speaker 2: on on that. I mean, even the DEI executive order.
Speaker 1: You know what's next in the Texas Trump love affair.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, encounters that the border are way down, right.
Speaker 5: I think there's maybe a little bit more concerned about
Speaker 5: tariffs as we continue to go on the tariff coaster
Speaker 5: up and down. I actually think though, it feels like
Speaker 5: maybe as the temperature has turned up in d C,
Speaker 5: the temperature in Austin has kind of gone down a
Speaker 5: little bit. Maybe there's like a feeling of a less
Speaker 5: need to be like you need to be the tip
Speaker 5: of this spear now and now that we have Donald
Speaker 5: Trump in the President's office.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's still a long session to go, and
Speaker 5: there's going to be a lot of social issues that
Speaker 5: come up in between now. But so far, I mean,
Speaker 5: it's like we're talking about school finance, We're talking about
Speaker 5: the lottery commission. We're talking about water and all those
Speaker 5: types of things that it seems like the craziness, the
Speaker 5: high temperature type stuff right now is.
Speaker 3: Happening elsewhere that.
Speaker 2: A simmer a little bit here in Texas. Yeah, which,
Speaker 2: you know, we would take a boring session. I think
Speaker 2: I think all of us would be, at least Matthew
Speaker 2: and I would you know for.
Speaker 3: TV you need the it bleeds it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, but no, it's definitely hopefully a little
Speaker 2: bit more of a.
Speaker 1: Low key session.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of our episode.
Speaker 2: James, we want to thank you so much for your
Speaker 2: time at the Helm of the Texas Trip guest.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I'll miss you, guys, We'll miss you James.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You can find all of the episodes of the Tribcast
Speaker 2: on YouTube or wherever you find your podcasts. Even though
Speaker 2: James is leaving, we are continuing on, so do not
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Speaker 2: subscribe to podcasts like subscribe Share. If you'd like to
Speaker 2: get in touch with us, you can reach us at
Speaker 2: Tribcast at Texastribune dot org. Our producers are Robavila and
Speaker 2: Chris Phobada. Our theme music is composed by Rob and
Speaker 2: two of us. We'll see you next week.