1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:09,919 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tribecast. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: I'm Eleanor Klibanoff, women's health reporter here at the Texas Tribune. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,920 I am here with editor in chief and my co host, 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:17,640 Matthew Watkins. 5 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 3: Hello there, Hey, how are you. I'm doing okay, Yeah, okay, 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:22,120 we'll talk more about that. 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're trying to keep the mood up. But we're 8 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:29,879 also here with a politics reporter for now, James Varagon, 9 00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:36,039 also known as the Great Betrayer. Hi, Eleanor, Hello, you 10 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:39,240 know we should say we're taping this on Friday. It 11 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:42,560 is also James's last day at the Texas Tribune, and 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,880 his last day is co host of the tripcast. 13 00:00:44,439 --> 00:00:46,719 Speaker 3: And last day is friend to me and Eleanor. 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,439 Speaker 2: True exactly last day a person we look at, talk 15 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,799 to engage with at all. The shunning begins at five pm, 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,640 and then your happy hour begins at five thirty. 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:56,759 Speaker 3: Okay, we'll wait. 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: It's a brief shutting, yes, but no. For those who 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,079 don't know, James is leaving the Tribune to go host 20 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:07,760 Capital Tonight at Spectrum News. We're very very excited for you. 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,519 Glad you're staying in Austin and sad to lose you 22 00:01:10,599 --> 00:01:11,280 at the Tribune. 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sad to go before before we get too 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,519 far ahead of ourselves, I would like to say happy birthday, 25 00:01:18,519 --> 00:01:23,920 belated birthday. You missed the last trip cast, so happy birthday. Yes, 26 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,719 very sad to be leaving the TEXTA Tribune had a 27 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:28,920 great opportunity to hop over to Spectrum and be a 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,000 host of Capital Tonight, which is a program that we 29 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,439 I think we've all been on. We love and respect 30 00:01:35,519 --> 00:01:39,079 and yeah, excited for new adventures and a new medium. 31 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: I feel like this is largely Matthew's fault because he said, hey, 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,000 James eleanor do a podcast. 33 00:01:45,079 --> 00:01:49,239 Speaker 1: It will put on YouTube. James got it. Yeah, they 34 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,439 were like, oh my god. He was like, I gotta 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:52,879 be on TV full time. 36 00:01:54,319 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: Cut the camera off. 37 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was no one else can get the taste 38 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:58,519 of fame. 39 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:01,159 Speaker 3: We will miss you, James. 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 5: Then, you've been a lot to the Tribune and you've 41 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,200 done amazing work and we're really proud of you, excited 42 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:09,639 that we'll still get to see you and watch you. 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,759 Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I'll miss you, guys, and I 44 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,319 hope to have you guys on the show sometimes. 45 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us a little bit. I mean, you've been 46 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,719 Tribune a long time. What is uh was a memory 47 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:19,159 that stands out to you from your time here? 48 00:02:19,439 --> 00:02:23,479 Speaker 3: Favorite coworker Patrick v Tech. 49 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: To us also to us that you guys can join 50 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,840 your little alumni council. 51 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: No, I mean, I don't know that I have one 52 00:02:33,199 --> 00:02:38,199 favorite memory. The treasure, as we say, is the friends 53 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:40,919 you make along the way. My co host Eleanor Klibanoff 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,400 really has become a great friend of mine. Kate McGee 55 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:47,159 also a great friend. It's just a great group of 56 00:02:47,199 --> 00:02:51,879 people to work with, a very supportive newsroom. Yeah, like 57 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,319 I said, uh, I've done a lot of great work here, 58 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,680 had a lot of personal growth. And I'll miss you guys, 59 00:02:56,759 --> 00:02:59,560 And I'll miss the readers in the audience because they're 60 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:04,560 so engaged and so vocal and so supportive. So I 61 00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:05,199 will miss that. 62 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,319 Speaker 3: I think most of our readers know this. 63 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:12,039 Speaker 5: But if and listeners know this, but if they want 64 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,400 to keep watching you, how will they be able to 65 00:03:14,439 --> 00:03:14,719 do that? 66 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, you can watch on Spectrum TV on cable and 67 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,319 the show is on it's called Capital Tonight. If you 68 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,319 don't know it, it's at seven o'clock Monday through Friday. 69 00:03:25,319 --> 00:03:26,800 And I'll be there. I'll be doing a couple of 70 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,479 weeks of training doing just on the job reporting before 71 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:33,439 taking over the anchor chair in early to mid April. 72 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:37,879 Speaker 1: Do you how long have you been covering the text legislature? 73 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 4: Been covering the Texas legislature since twenty seventeen. 74 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: Okay, eight years and I know you're not leaving the 75 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,120 Texas Legislature, but eight years. 76 00:03:48,599 --> 00:03:52,479 Speaker 1: Four sessions, five sessions, five sessions. 77 00:03:53,159 --> 00:03:54,439 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you have any sense of like, 78 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,000 have things changed in that time that you've been covering it? 79 00:03:57,319 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: Seen any big shifts? 80 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:02,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we've had three different speakers, four different 81 00:04:02,919 --> 00:04:06,719 speakers in that time, so that's changed. We've talked a 82 00:04:06,759 --> 00:04:12,560 lot on the show about the right word lurch that 83 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:15,080 the Texas House has taken. You know, when I first 84 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,600 came in, it was under Joe Strauss, who was a 85 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,720 much more moderate speaker. That was a bad word back then, 86 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,959 but he certainly was a moderate. Stopped a lot of 87 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,560 the kind of legislation that we're seeing now with bathroom bills, 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,519 and I think it just speaks to how politics have 89 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,399 moved in the state of Texas, to how the House 90 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:42,480 is built and what bills are being taken up. But 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,160 you know, that's how life is. I mean, things change, 92 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,600 but it's still one of the best state houses to cover, 93 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,160 probably the best state house to cover in the country. 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,319 So much consequential policy passes, and so I'm super excited 95 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,519 to keep covering it and for to keep following your 96 00:04:58,519 --> 00:05:01,399 guys' work because you guys are the best day Well, 97 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:01,879 thank you. 98 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: I agree. 99 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: No, But turning now to the Texas Legislature, I mean, 100 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,160 this week, I think we're just kind of gonna run 101 00:05:10,199 --> 00:05:12,199 through some of what we've seen happening. We've done a 102 00:05:12,199 --> 00:05:15,079 couple of episodes sort of focusing on specific issues, and 103 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:18,279 while we've been doing that, a lot has happened at 104 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,600 the Capitol. So you know, things are really starting to 105 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,800 fly now. The Senate is moving through its priorities, sparks 106 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,920 are flying in House committee hearings, and we're going to 107 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,279 really start seeing things move now pretty quickly. Matthew talked 108 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,879 about sort of where we are right now and what 109 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:36,600 comes next. 110 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:38,759 Speaker 5: I think as I've talked to people who work in 111 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:45,439 the capital in recent days, the big thing that people 112 00:05:45,439 --> 00:05:49,319 are talking about is how calm and friendly it's been 113 00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:52,120 so far. I mean, we've had a few little moments 114 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,399 of flair effs, we'll talk to you. But I think 115 00:05:55,959 --> 00:06:01,160 after this just incredibly tense primary season back in March 116 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:04,120 to the Republican primary, a lot of members ousted, then 117 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,439 a incredibly intense run up to the start of the 118 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,000 session fighting over the House Speaker, we get Dustin Burrows. 119 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,600 He is on the other side of the sort of 120 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,480 you know, insurgent wing of the Republican Party, but he 121 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:22,279 has taken a lot of effort to reach out to 122 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,560 that wing, but even maybe more so Governor Abbott and 123 00:06:26,959 --> 00:06:30,439 Dan Patrick and try to kind of make peace. He's been, 124 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:36,879 you know, appearing on stage with Abbott on voucher meetings, rallies. 125 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:41,680 He's been, you know, working kind of in concert or 126 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,399 at least not an opposition to Dan Patrick in the Senate. 127 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:47,959 And I think that there's a lot of optimism among 128 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,199 people in the Senate and just around the legislature in general, 129 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,560 at least on the Republican side, that that maybe we 130 00:06:54,639 --> 00:07:00,480 can get through a sort of calm, peaceful legislation session 131 00:07:00,519 --> 00:07:02,319 instead of one that breaks down into fighting. 132 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:02,959 Speaker 3: You know. 133 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,319 Speaker 5: The caveat is that it's you know, early March, and 134 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,040 where we will really see that test is later in 135 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:14,959 the session when things go through. But I mean, you know, 136 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,360 and there's lots of potential areas for it to blow up. 137 00:07:17,399 --> 00:07:19,399 You know, there's still things that need to be ironed 138 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:21,360 out in the voucher bill. I'm sure we'll talk about that. 139 00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:25,360 There's differing views on property taxes and everything like that. 140 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,959 But so far they seem at least willing to work 141 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:30,839 with each other, the Big three having their you know, 142 00:07:31,399 --> 00:07:36,240 weekly breakfasts, which wasn't happening last session. And to me, 143 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:37,639 the big question is well that stick. 144 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's still early on. I did 145 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,560 have that realization like this week where I was just 146 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,920 talking to somebody at the Capital Cafe shout out Capital Cafe, 147 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,720 and they were like, Wow, things are really getting going now, 148 00:07:54,759 --> 00:07:57,360 Like there's deadlines are coming up. Bill foundin deadlines I 149 00:07:57,399 --> 00:08:02,079 think are next week. So things are getting going. At 150 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,240 the same time, things haven't moved that much. I mean, 151 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,839 we're talking about vouchers, we're talking about the Senate priorities 152 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,160 flying out of the Senate, but that kind of. 153 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,759 Speaker 1: Is always right, almost administrative. 154 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and then like the Senate voucher Bill hasn't 155 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,959 moved in the House. The House is moving its own thing. 156 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,519 The committees are barely starting to meet and have their 157 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,439 organizational meetings, so nobody can really say like, wow, my 158 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,600 bill hasn't moved. Nobody's really has that anger in them yet. 159 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,720 Everybody had nice committee appointments, so everybody's like in this 160 00:08:32,759 --> 00:08:35,919 feel good era. But I think maybe over the next 161 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,279 month or two we're going to start seeing people outside 162 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:42,960 of representive Brian Harrison and his crew start getting upset. 163 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,159 If things don't start. 164 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 5: I just want to just remark briefly though, on what 165 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:52,679 seems to be a talent of Dustin Burrows to make 166 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:56,679 peace with folks. Right, we all remember, or many of us, 167 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,200 I'm sure remember the scandal that brought down Speaker Bonnin 168 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,360 back in twenty nineteen where he has a secret meeting 169 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:12,039 with Michael quinn Sullivan, the conservative activist, in which Burrows 170 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,240 comes along with him, presents a sort of secret list 171 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:21,200 of Republican members of the Republican Party who MQS can target. 172 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:26,399 Michael quinn Sullivan secretly records this meeting, it goes out, 173 00:09:26,519 --> 00:09:29,600 it creates this big scandal, Burrows has to resign as 174 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,840 Republican Caucus Chair, and Bonnin ends up, you know, losing 175 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,879 his speakership. Over that that I think, you know, you 176 00:09:38,039 --> 00:09:40,559 have to look at as a pretty low point for Burrows. 177 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:43,759 He found a way to kind of bring himself back 178 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,080 up into leadership, ended up winning the speaker's gavel, which 179 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,399 is a pretty amazing thing just in and of itself. 180 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:53,799 Then you have in the early session, you know, the 181 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,240 billionaire Alex Fairley talking about how he's gonna essentially, you know, 182 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:02,360 signaling that he's going to go after people who vote 183 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,240 for the sort of leadership wing of the GOP in 184 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,240 the House speaker's race. And then right before that vote, 185 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:11,200 he puts out a statement that seems to kind of 186 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,720 back away from that and almost give people permission to 187 00:10:14,279 --> 00:10:19,960 vote for Burrows Fairli's including Fairly's daughter who casts that vote. 188 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,919 And now you know, again at least it's early. I 189 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,279 will again acknowledge that, and we have to acknowledge that 190 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,720 every time we talk about it. But now he seems, 191 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,080 at least for now to be getting along with Dan Patrick. 192 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,559 And that is an impressive skill by this speaker to 193 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,720 to you know, that I think will help him accomplish 194 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,440 things and just sort of like put the House in 195 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,600 a different position than maybe it has seemed in recent years. 196 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: Do you think that to some extent just comes down 197 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,919 to like personality, like who he is, Like you know, 198 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,840 is he more of a peacemaker maybe than Daid feel 199 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:57,080 and you know, who was very much at odds Or 200 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,600 is it the political landscape that they're the sam they're in. 201 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 3: I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that. Jams. 202 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,279 Speaker 4: My thoughts are that he's not new to this, he's 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,279 true to this and so. 204 00:11:08,919 --> 00:11:10,799 Speaker 1: This is how you get a TV contract. 205 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 4: No, I mean he is a very very savvy political player. 206 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:18,879 One thing that you did point out, Matthew is that 207 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,679 a couple of the people on his pledge list or 208 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,519 people that he targeted in that twenty nineteen styles So 209 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,559 you look at folks like Drew Darby, you look at 210 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,879 folks like Stan Lambert and say, man, what did this 211 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,120 guy do? How did this guy talk to them? What 212 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,480 has he done in the last couple of years to 213 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,360 get those guys to come over to his side? That 214 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,960 is remarkable for a politician to be able to do 215 00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:48,399 that that turnaround. He's very savvy. He we had a 216 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:52,799 profile of him talking about how relentless he is. He's 217 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:55,600 very organized. He doesn't just sit around and wait, and 218 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,639 he also is it's not I wouldn't say he's the 219 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:04,759 friendliest personality, but he is a very straight shooter, and 220 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,399 when it's a no, he's going to tell you it's 221 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:08,120 to know. When it's a yeah, he's going to tell 222 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,720 you it's a yeah. But he doesn't stop at no. 223 00:12:10,879 --> 00:12:14,759 He's like, Okay, it's a no, now, but here are five, six, seven, eight, 224 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,399 ten things we can do to get it to a yes. 225 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,720 And that's the kind of person that you need to 226 00:12:19,759 --> 00:12:24,759 be in the capital to get stuff done. And that's 227 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,200 the person that he has shown to be. 228 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the kind of person you need to be, 229 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,559 particularly in the speaker's chair, right, because we always talk 230 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,279 about how the Lieutenant governor is perhaps the most powerful 231 00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:37,759 person in the state, particularly during the legislative session. And 232 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:40,639 one of the reasons for that is structural, right, because 233 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,480 he's elected by the people, right, he's not elected by 234 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,000 the other members of the Senate, so he can preside 235 00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:49,639 over it without worrying about angering enough lawmakers that they'll 236 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,240 end up voting him out. And that's a much more 237 00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,840 comfortable and just ap perch with more leverage than the 238 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,960 House speaker, who has to you know, I mean, we've 239 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,120 seen this repeatedly over recent years. Has to keep those 240 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,279 members happy in order to keep them going, and he 241 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,559 just seems to be pretty good at that. 242 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 4: You've got to serve two masters, and serving the people 243 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,759 who elect you to your House seat, but then also 244 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:13,480 the other one hundred and forty nine members who are 245 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,440 going to elect you as House Speaker. And he again, 246 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,519 he has this political talent for turning nose into yeses. 247 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,399 And that's kind of what you need when you have 248 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,600 that dynamic between the House and the Senate, which is 249 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,759 often at odds, especially with the Lieutenant governor like Dan Patrick, 250 00:13:29,799 --> 00:13:32,000 who is just we've talked about this, we've used this 251 00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:35,159 phrase before. He rules with an iron fist. But you know, 252 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:38,080 Dennis Bondon was also really good at this. He was wiley, 253 00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:40,759 he was very smart. And it's because they had been 254 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,919 chairman of big committees and had led had authored big bills, 255 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,240 had known where the levers were to pull to make 256 00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:51,519 things go. And I think this is the dynamic that 257 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,200 there is. And importantly, Lieutenant Governor Patrick respects that he 258 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,639 knows that he's a player. He knows that he can't 259 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,559 just go above his head or bully him on Twitter. 260 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,480 We haven't seen those kinds of messages, and so that 261 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:06,600 is a dynamic that is playing out now. Of course, 262 00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:09,279 again the caveat what is going to be a relationship, 263 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,960 Like in June, you can play this back. 264 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: I was going to say, right, roll this right back. Yeah, yeah, no, certainly. 265 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,080 I mean I think we're seeing at least like friendlier. Also, 266 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,320 there is a lot that they are in agreement on, right, Like, 267 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,600 it's easier to be friendly when you are all you're 268 00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:27,240 at least in you know, the Big three are all 269 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,559 saying we all want vouchers, we all want property text cuts. 270 00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,440 We're going to have some conflict over how we do that, 271 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,600 but like we're all kind of on the. 272 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: Same People sleep on this. But Dustin Burrows is a 273 00:14:38,039 --> 00:14:40,919 very strong conservative. I mean people will try to in 274 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,440 certain interests, will try to convince you that he is not. 275 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,000 But I mean I get emails from people in his 276 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,840 district saying like this guy is a dyed in the 277 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,519 wool like red as blood conservative, And that's why they 278 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:54,960 get along. That's why they are in such agreement on 279 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,559 these issues. Whereas, again going back to our earlier comment 280 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,120 about when I started covering it was Joe Strauss. He 281 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,559 was not as conservative. He was a more traditional like 282 00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:07,000 Reagan Republican, George Bush Republican. Uh, these are much more 283 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,039 socially conservative lawmakers. And that's why they're don't want right. 284 00:15:10,039 --> 00:15:12,399 Speaker 2: I mean, the gap between Joe Strauss and Dustin Burroughs 285 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,879 versus Dustin Burroughs and say David Cook is you know, 286 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Strauss and Burrows much wider. 287 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:19,159 Speaker 3: Right. 288 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking about vouchers, you know, we're not going to. 289 00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:25,919 Speaker 4: Get into the whole segue. 290 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,519 Speaker 1: That's what we call a segue. 291 00:15:27,559 --> 00:15:30,879 Speaker 2: And in the biz, uh, you know, we've got all 292 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,039 the big three, we're all agreeing on vouchers. 293 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: Everybody's all so happy. 294 00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: James, where does that stand right now? In this pre 295 00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:41,320 uh you know, the warm up period. 296 00:15:41,639 --> 00:15:44,399 Speaker 4: I think it's uh, you know, when you're making pasta 297 00:15:44,559 --> 00:15:46,480 and like you got to let the water boil a 298 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:49,159 little bit. That's where we're at right now, because everybody 299 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,080 is like, Okay, this thing is moving. 300 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: Uh. 301 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:54,679 Speaker 4: The Senate bill has passed the Senate. Now we've got 302 00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:59,519 the House bill. Weirdly, like, tell me what your thoughts 303 00:15:59,519 --> 00:16:02,080 are on this, man, but like the education advocates are 304 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,759 sort of kind of quiet. Yeah, and Jayden had a 305 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:10,559 really great story about the the Democrats, like top leaders 306 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,000 on voucher stuff, sort of saying like, you guys are 307 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,159 being too nice, like if you need money, you come 308 00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:18,759 out swinging right. And it's it's sort of a Dayton 309 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,159 or a little bit of an under the radar kind 310 00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:22,919 of battle that they're fighting because they don't want to 311 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,000 tick off the state officials who basically control their purse 312 00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:30,200 strings because they really desperately need the money. But also 313 00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:34,320 it's like vouchers could really hurt their public schools, and 314 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,559 this is what they say, maybe not publicly, but they 315 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:39,080 certainly say it privately to us, right, And so I 316 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360 think it's it's that part. But then there's and I 317 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,960 think Republicans are pretty confident that it's going to pass. 318 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,159 But then you're also seeing folks like Cody Harris and 319 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,960 Brad Buckley getting booed on stage, getting shouted down at 320 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,360 their own town halls. I saw Carl Tepper isn't even 321 00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:58,360 doing a town hall. He's doing kind of a moderated 322 00:16:58,679 --> 00:17:01,840 radio appearance. Because there is starting to be some pressure, 323 00:17:01,879 --> 00:17:04,599 and you know, things are starting to the rubber is 324 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,799 hitting the road, and so we're really getting to see 325 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,519 like what the actual proposals look like, what impacts it's 326 00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:12,079 going to have, and I think the fight is just beginning. 327 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think going back to the comment about the 328 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:21,359 schools maybe not being you know, fighting as much, I 329 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,359 think that's an interesting observation and it kind of goes 330 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,359 back to something I've talked about on the podcast before, 331 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,680 which is, you know, they successfully quote unquote successfully blocked 332 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:34,039 vouchers last session, and what it got them was, you know, 333 00:17:35,319 --> 00:17:38,559 losing access to billions of dollars in additional state funding, 334 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,920 about a dozen of their strongest school's strongest supporters in 335 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,440 the Republican Party losing their primary seats, and you know, 336 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,920 vouchers likely getting passed two years later. Anyways, Right, And 337 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,559 so I wonder I haven't talked to anyone about this, 338 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,960 but I wonder whether there's a sort of like, Okay, 339 00:17:58,279 --> 00:18:03,680 this is probably going to happen. Let's stop this fight 340 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,319 and let's focus on getting what we can get, which 341 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,920 is basically that since twenty nineteen, when the state passed 342 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,680 you know, a major campaign or sorry, school finance overhaul 343 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,960 and really significantly boosted up school funding, that funding has 344 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,599 not kept up with inflation since then and if you 345 00:18:24,759 --> 00:18:27,160 watch from twenty twenty where it kind of hit a 346 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,799 high water mark until now, if you're talking in real dollars, 347 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:33,880 and you know, twenty twenty five dollars accounting for inflation, 348 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,599 the school funding has dropped about ten billion dollars from 349 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,559 the state during that time, and so these schools, and 350 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:45,279 it's important to note that that happened during really, really 351 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,279 financially healthy times for the state, where there were unprecedented 352 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,799 levels of school of state surpluses and funds. Right, and 353 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:57,079 so if I'm a school official, I'm thinking, you know, 354 00:18:57,759 --> 00:19:01,359 we're not in great shape during really strong, you know, 355 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,319 economic times for this state. We're not always going to 356 00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:06,759 be in strong economic times. We need to be getting 357 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:09,839 as much money as possible right now, and we probably 358 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,799 need to do it by not antagonizing the people who 359 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,920 actually control the purse strings. And you know, there is 360 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,920 a good amount of money on the table for these 361 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,480 schools this year, and maybe the equation here is let's 362 00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:26,079 focus on that and not the one billion dollars on vouchers. 363 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 4: Of course, the other side of it is, well, do 364 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,400 we take the money in the short term and then, 365 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:34,440 according to them, allow vouchers to pass, which will in 366 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,319 the long term hurt our schools in our school districts. 367 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,319 And that seems to be the decision that they've made, 368 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,400 like we need this money so desperately right now that 369 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,599 we are willing to sort of just be quiet, take 370 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,880 the money, and we'll deal with the voucher stuff later. 371 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,759 And I think they're also hoping that other people will 372 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:53,799 fight that fight for them. I think even within the 373 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,839 Democratic Caucus there's that feeling of like, well, it's going 374 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,920 to pass anyway, so let's, you know, get the victories 375 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,759 that we can. And then there's like the three you 376 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:07,000 know public education people, Taller Rico, you know, Hosa and 377 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,599 John Bryant just going to the mats. But even they 378 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,640 were frustrated in that here and they're like, if you 379 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,880 guys need the money, then you guys might like, we're 380 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,279 not just gonna be out here for well at least 381 00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:17,599 you know, you know, hosts said that we're not just 382 00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:19,200 gonna be out here fighting if you guys aren't going 383 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,759 to fight. So it's a very interesting dynamic. 384 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 5: James, do you what do you think about these town halls, 385 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,799 like is that do you think lawmakers are worried about them? 386 00:20:28,079 --> 00:20:30,319 And do you think they should be they. 387 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,559 Speaker 4: Should be worried about them. I mean, I was very 388 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:36,319 interested to see Cody Harris's town hall. I mean I 389 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:39,160 saw some videos of that one, and yeah, I mean, 390 00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:41,799 I mean, these are rural districts, and and you know, 391 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:45,759 the messaging from the governor's team and from Republican leaders 392 00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:48,559 is like the polling works. The polling people in rural 393 00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:52,720 areas support that. The town halls showed that perhaps not 394 00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,720 everybody supports them, that there's a very vocal group of 395 00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:58,680 people who don't support it. So I think that does 396 00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:00,640 sort of worry legislators. I mean, do I think they're 397 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,200 going to change their mind? I don't think so, but 398 00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:07,440 it is starting to show some of those cracks. And 399 00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:09,920 I think we've talked about this before, but some of 400 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,359 these new freshmen who are newly elected and say yes 401 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,440 school choice, school choice. Well it's easy to say yes 402 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,359 school choice when you don't have specifics. But then when 403 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,920 you have a school superintendent or a school principal saying 404 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:23,960 I got to close three schools in the district and 405 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,519 you're only going to have one school district or a 406 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,559 school in the district left like, it gets a lot 407 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,799 tougher when you get the specifics. 408 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: Right, I think you can get kind of that like 409 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,200 dome blindness, like you're under you know, you're like, oh, 410 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,039 the only thing that matters is like what's happening here 411 00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:36,640 and like trading votes and all that, and then you 412 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,039 go back to your district and you're getting yelled out 413 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,240 the town town at all, Like. 414 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,279 Speaker 4: The person who like, you know, does your laundry is like. 415 00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: Right, I mean in a area like the superintendent you know, 416 00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:49,519 could be like a very powerful person and. 417 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,599 Speaker 4: Your or your friends and neighbors are mattitude. It does, 418 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:53,920 you know, it does make you think. 419 00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: So there's a little more like logistics, you know. 420 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 4: But the other thing too is that like some of 421 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,240 these lawmakers could also add tweaks and amendments to the 422 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:05,279 legislation that could and I think they're probably looking to 423 00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:08,680 do that that could assuage some of those concerns. So 424 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,920 there's probably that, But it's awful to take the heat obviously. 425 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely feels like there's a little bit of 426 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,359 like critically you know, from some Democrats, also from some 427 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,279 of the education activists, like just sort of a sense 428 00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:22,559 of like this is going to happen like, let's just 429 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,079 like find ways we can tweak. 430 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think also there's just a lot of 431 00:22:28,079 --> 00:22:31,279 we're what these town halls are reflective of is the 432 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,440 energy starting to re emerge in the democratic or more 433 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,000 moderate area of Texas politics, right. 434 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 4: And those are rural Republican areas. 435 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and I mean exactly. You know, you know 436 00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,000 when Trump was first elected in twenty sixteen, you saw 437 00:22:46,079 --> 00:22:48,039 that kind of you know, the Women's March all this, 438 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,359 like people literally out in the streets, and we did 439 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,759 not immediately see that this time, but we're starting to 440 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:58,480 see that in the And you know, if I'm a Republican, 441 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:00,440 I might worry a little bit about that, right because 442 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,079 twenty eighteen was not a great election year for them, 443 00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,519 and you know, maybe they're some energy popping up. Maybe 444 00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:09,079 I want to get some bills out there that I 445 00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:11,200 can point to and say, yeah, you maybe not might 446 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:13,519 not like school vouchers, but look at this, you know, 447 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:15,880 five thousand dollars rais we did for teachers. Look at this, 448 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,559 these billions of dollars we put into public schools. 449 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,759 Speaker 4: Anyways, Yeah, and the other thing that I don't want 450 00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:25,680 to like let pass before commenting is as the details 451 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,880 come out, like what you're talking about, the detail about 452 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,519 the prioritization that there is in the House versus the Senate, 453 00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:34,160 where there isn't a real prioritization. But a person who 454 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,039 or a family that makes one hundred and fifty six 455 00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:40,119 thousand dollars can still qualify for these school vouchers and 456 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,200 they're calling that a low income family. I think that's 457 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,559 going to rile a lot of people up and people say, 458 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,079 like one hundred and fifty six thousand dollars is low income, 459 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,039 Like it really kind of speaks to sort of the. 460 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 5: Design of the bill, right, and that does seem to 461 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,200 be where the tension is right, Like the thing they 462 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,200 need to figure out the most in order to get 463 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,000 this across the finish line is that. 464 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:01,559 Speaker 4: The send it seems to think like it's fine, we 465 00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:03,759 want to offer it to everybody like that. This is 466 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720 this is in fairness, it's universal, it's universal for everybody. 467 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:08,480 And the House is being a little bit more like 468 00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,920 maybe more careful about those optics because they're getting lit 469 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,279 up by their districts. 470 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:14,799 Speaker 3: Hi. 471 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,559 Speaker 2: I asked for a brief update on vouchers, but that's okay. 472 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:21,680 I just want the listeners to know I am fighting 473 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,720 for them. 474 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: I do want to jump. 475 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: Ahead a little bit and talk about another big story 476 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,839 from this week. We saw State Representative Brian Harrison. There 477 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,599 was this committee meeting where things got pretty tense. He 478 00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:39,839 was sort of repeatedly pressing the Texas Water Development Board 479 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,599 chair Loreal Stepney about the role of race in state 480 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,119 hiring practices, and this really sort of blew up. I mean, Stepanie, 481 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,759 who is black, was visibly distraught, very upset, wiping tears 482 00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:55,559 from her eyes while Harrison sort of continued to push 483 00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:58,359 on this issue. We saw a big outpouring of support 484 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,079 for you know, the board chair Stephanie, from Governor Abbot, 485 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,200 Lieutenant Governor Patrick, Speaker Burroughs. Harrison did not back down, 486 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,559 you know, claim said his he felt like his questions 487 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:11,240 were perfect. 488 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,839 Speaker 3: That's a familiar word to describe things like that. 489 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,519 Speaker 1: Yes, right. 490 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 3: It reminds me of another politician, James. 491 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 2: What did you make of I mean, this seems like 492 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,400 an outlier in terms of the kind of clash we 493 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,200 tooplacy between an agency head and lawmaker. 494 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 4: Yes, and I think there was calls from leaders. 495 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: Uh. 496 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,319 Speaker 4: Speaker Burroughs kind of called it out, uh in terms 497 00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:40,279 of like being on a committee and the kind of 498 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,559 decorum and respect that is expected. But I thought it 499 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,200 was noteworthy that both Patrick and Abbot, who are no 500 00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:52,200 snowflakes on de I. There's certainly no supporters of de I. 501 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: There i Abbot's executive order, that we're talking. 502 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:58,559 Speaker 4: With their opponents of DEI. But they were saying that this, 503 00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:01,279 I mean they didn't. For example, Abbat didn't say like 504 00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:05,000 this went overboard, but he did express sort of support 505 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:07,599 for Stepney, and I think you have to read him 506 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:08,200 between the lines. 507 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:08,279 Speaker 3: Now. 508 00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 4: The other thing for listeners is like Representative Harrison is 509 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,200 one of like the most conservative social warrior that there is, 510 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,519 and this is his his I don't know, pep issue, Pep. 511 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like a bomb thrower kind of and he's. 512 00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 4: He's like, I'm going to be the DEI guy. I'm 513 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,920 going to track the police every at every stage. And 514 00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:36,680 the questioning was I sort of see where he's getting 515 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,119 what he's getting at saying like I didn't say anything 516 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,319 specifically about her or that she was a. 517 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: D He was like threading this very fine needle, right. 518 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,799 Speaker 4: But the the takeaway from it was very much sort 519 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:52,640 of like are you a de I hire are you 520 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:58,160 supporting DEI hires? Is DEI a part of your system? 521 00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,440 And I think because she's a person of color also, 522 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,799 it sort of was putting her on the spot, maybe unfairly, 523 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,839 and people on the committee called it out. I mean 524 00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:11,799 Representative Harrison obviously said he felt like the questioning was perfect, 525 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:16,640 but seeing so many other lawmakers say, hey, this went 526 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,960 too far, I think you've got to pause and think 527 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,279 about that. And making an agency head cry who's served 528 00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:24,440 for thirty years and this has not happened to her, 529 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,240 I think you've got to pause and think about it. 530 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:33,079 Speaker 5: Yeah, Harrison is a really interesting example of would you 531 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:34,839 agree with me that it's fair to say that he's 532 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,400 a bit of a backbencher in the House in terms 533 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,559 of influence. Yes, he has still managed to with this 534 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,039 DEI push that he's doing anti d I de I 535 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:51,640 push that he's doing, have a lot of influence on 536 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:55,079 state government. I mean, he's really up in some university 537 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,039 leaders heads. 538 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,599 Speaker 4: Texas A and M. 539 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, his alma mater. 540 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,079 Speaker 5: He you know, as you know, finds these emails or 541 00:28:02,079 --> 00:28:06,200 individual program starts tweeting about them, and it draws a response. 542 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,319 It draws a response from the port of Regents at times, 543 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,200 the governor and everything like that. He's it's a sort 544 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,440 of like modern something you see in DC frankly a 545 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,640 lot someone who's maybe not necessarily like getting a lot 546 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,279 of legislation through, but getting a ton of attention and 547 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,000 actually being able to create some movement on things just 548 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:28,359 by sort of activating a certain wing of the party 549 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,119 on the internet by pointing to these things. 550 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,599 Speaker 1: I mean, he's done this with like very specific both 551 00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:36,039 subtly dying. 552 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,839 Speaker 2: He's done this I think on like really like before 553 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,359 the session, you know, in the interim, like on very 554 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:44,680 specific things. I like, you know where he's like posting 555 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,000 on Twitter about you know, this is on you know, 556 00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:50,079 a policy on some agency's website, and then he's calling 557 00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:51,119 out the governor, telling his. 558 00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: Supporters to call out the governor. 559 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: He's like calling and then the governor will sweep in 560 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,240 and change things right. 561 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 5: One thing that was different this time is that it 562 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,680 wasn't on Twitter. It was face to face with a 563 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,160 black woman in a position of power, and you kind 564 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,640 of got to see how she was reacting to that 565 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,799 and how it felt to her to be kind of 566 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,519 receiving that line of attacking. 567 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 4: Twitter is in real life, as we say, and like Twitter, 568 00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:18,720 Like I mean, this agency head is clearly very busy 569 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,519 giving the state like water. She's probably not on Twitter 570 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:25,240 all the time listening to these things. But then you 571 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,240 got to see exactly what you're saying, like the reaction 572 00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:29,799 when people say these things to you and to your face, 573 00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:32,160 and it's it's hurtful stuff. I think I want to 574 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,279 shout out a Jundra Martinez, our colleague, who I think 575 00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:36,839 did a really really great job of saying, this is 576 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,079 sort of a build out of the atmosphere that we're 577 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:45,599 in with diversity, equity and inclusion, where politicians are targeting it, 578 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:50,400 folks like Representative Harrison screamed from the rooftops, and then 579 00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:54,799 are higher officials then react and do something, and so 580 00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:58,440 there it becomes a cycle, right, it becomes a cycle. 581 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,880 And so this this is the natural build out of that. 582 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,359 And perhaps it's a moment not just to say that 583 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,079 moment was bad, but also to think about the broader 584 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,039 issue here. 585 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,079 Speaker 2: But you know, I mean this whole you know, yes, 586 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,400 this is representive Brian Harrison sort of, this is his 587 00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:16,960 m O kind of, but it was he was citing 588 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,640 and building on the momentum around Governor Abbot's executive order 589 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,559 removing DEI from state agencies, and you know, yes, like 590 00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:27,759 Governor Abbott stepped into the you know, board chair Stepanese 591 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:31,640 defense basically saying like she's the best expert we have 592 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,640 on water on this hugely important issue. 593 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 4: But it is like that meme. It's like who would 594 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,559 do this right, right, right right? 595 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:40,559 Speaker 2: The underlying thing is that, you know, I think Governor 596 00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:46,559 Abbot has certainly empowered this crusade of Brian Harrison's through 597 00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:50,640 this executive order, and you know, I think we're probably 598 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,519 just going to see more clashes like this. I think, 599 00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,039 you know, my sense, at least on Twitter. Again, Twitter 600 00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:59,400 is not real life, but Governor Abbott has been much 601 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,920 more assertive and vocal on Twitter on like a range 602 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,480 of issues, and you know, I think that comes from 603 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,599 the very very top right we're seeing, you know, President 604 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,720 Trump is sort of engendering a lot of that rhetoric, 605 00:31:13,759 --> 00:31:16,960 and so I think Governor Abbitt stepping in to say, 606 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,160 like in this case, that was maybe too far, even 607 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,680 if you wouldn't use those words, is something. 608 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: But you know, the underlying. 609 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 2: You know, I don't think we're gonna anticipate Brian Harrison 610 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:37,839 being sort of chagrined by that. Yeah, yeah, Matthew, what 611 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,440 the hell is happening at the lottery? 612 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 3: That is an excellent question. 613 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 5: So the this this is like, this feels like just 614 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:49,799 like a fun old school It really does. 615 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 4: I'm like, this is like a joy. 616 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 2: It really is like one of those things that you're like, 617 00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:58,079 it feels like a heist movie that now the Texas 618 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,839 Legislature has to get involved in. And I think we 619 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:04,160 one every session, get one little treat story like this. 620 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,039 Speaker 5: So the background here is that we have this concept 621 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,319 of lottery couriers, which is basically a you can go 622 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,720 on to an app you can be anywhere, I guess 623 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,440 anywhere in the world, not just in the US, and 624 00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:25,200 buy a lottery ticket and someone will will go buy 625 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,319 the ticket for you and take a picture of it 626 00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:30,200 for you, and then you know, I guess if it wins, 627 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,640 they will either go collect the money for you and 628 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,640 send it to you or mail the ticket to you 629 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,759 wherever you are. 630 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: And so this is one of those things that until 631 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,039 we find out about what happens next, do you think. 632 00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:45,079 Speaker 1: Like, who is that Who's that desperate to play the lottery? 633 00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: That they're like, I need someone to do this third 634 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,279 hand for me, but you're kind of like it seems inoffensive, especially. 635 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 4: Because they don't even let it paid for my tickets 636 00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:53,000 with a credit card, like I have to pay them 637 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,720 with cash. Then I hear about this. 638 00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, are you a lottery player, James? 639 00:32:57,039 --> 00:32:57,519 Speaker 4: Not anymore? 640 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: Okay when it gets big? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 641 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:03,599 Speaker 5: I buy lottery tickets and put them in my children 642 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,039 and wife's stalking every Christmas. So I'm once a year. 643 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,039 Speaker 2: And that's Christmas in the Watkins house and make your 644 00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:13,400 own luck, keep them right. 645 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 5: So anyways, lottery couriers. So what has happened though, is 646 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,799 that there was this particular situation. The Houston Chronicle wrote 647 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:24,599 a great story about this where essentially some folks essentially 648 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,400 found that they could game the system. And there are 649 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,880 times where you can essentially buy a massive volume of 650 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,559 tickets in order to essentially like work the odds and 651 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,200 you know, I think, like practically like sort of guarantee 652 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,920 that you're going to win something. One of them. 653 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: They bought every single number, yeah, exactly everything, combination numbers, 654 00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:45,640 and so this. 655 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:48,599 Speaker 5: Has now raised concern. There's this one place, a store 656 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,440 called Winner's corner in Austin that in twenty twenty two 657 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:57,000 sold eighty nine million dollars worth of lottery tickets, which 658 00:33:57,039 --> 00:34:01,240 is about eighty three million dollars in lottery tickets than 659 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:05,519 the second highestwhere else. And so Dan Patrick, you know, 660 00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,279 this has come up a little bit. The Chronicle has 661 00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:11,559 done some good reporting on this. The Sunset Commission wrote 662 00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:14,119 a report on this in the in the state, leading 663 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,719 Dan Patrick to show up to the Winner's Corner again 664 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,000 on Twitter with making a video kind of talking to 665 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,800 the folks seeing what he described as sort of a 666 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,039 massive number of these lottery lotto machines, which I can 667 00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:30,199 tell as a tell you from a Christmas buyer, are 668 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,039 not very reliable and sometimes only come halfway torn up 669 00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:34,320 so you. 670 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 3: Can't even read the numbers. 671 00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 5: Then your your daughter is really upset on Christmas because 672 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,639 she doesn't know whether she's gonna win the lottery or not. 673 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,599 Speaker 1: Santa's complaints are reaching new levels. 674 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,639 Speaker 5: But ultimately this has led to the resignation resignation of 675 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,199 one of the lottery commissioners. There is a lot of 676 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:57,000 talk about possibly banning these couriers, other kinds of legislation investigation. 677 00:34:57,039 --> 00:35:00,440 There's a Texas Rangers investigation. Yes, so just a lot 678 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,280 of concern about the Lottery Commission here, and you know, 679 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,760 whether it should even continue to exist. There are some 680 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,119 all makers who would like to get rid of an. 681 00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 4: Entirely now a priority item for the Lieutenant Governor. And 682 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,679 I think it's going to get heard in Former Speaker Feelings. 683 00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:16,400 A similar issue is going to get heard on speak 684 00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:18,480 Former Speaker Feelings Committee. So it's moving. 685 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:19,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely moving. 686 00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 5: You know. 687 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 2: We should say Eric Dexheimer and the Houston Chronicle did 688 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,760 a lot of this reporting initially, and you know, we 689 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,760 owe him our thanks because we love a little heist story. 690 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 5: And if there are any agents out there, Eleanor is 691 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:33,920 looking to sell a screenplay. 692 00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. 693 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,039 Speaker 2: I'm like, I've got the wheels already turning, and I 694 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:39,800 feel like Eric should get first bite at that, you know. 695 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,440 But yeah, it's a crazy story that is moving pretty 696 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,000 quickly through the legislature. 697 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: There's been this, you know. 698 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: The interesting thing of the Lottery Commission for a long 699 00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:51,039 time has said that they cannot regulate these couriers. Now 700 00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:55,360 there we can regulate these careers. It's been a little yeah. 701 00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, it is interesting that it's coming along in a 702 00:35:57,159 --> 00:35:59,920 time where there's also a big push to expand gambling 703 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:02,679 the state. I think this probably doesn't do great for 704 00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:03,679 that cause. 705 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 4: One thing that it will point out is that the 706 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,519 Sunset Commission had pointed out all these issues with the 707 00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:13,320 Lottery Commission, like their their last report I think last 708 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,559 year was like this is this is not going right. So, 709 00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:20,719 you know, I think lawmakers can sort of be upset 710 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,559 and yelling and doing some investigative reporting on it, but 711 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,360 these problems existed and they existed under their watch. 712 00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,159 Speaker 2: Feels like a strong endorsement for you know, things are 713 00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:33,519 only a problem once the media gets involved. You know, 714 00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:36,519 we create problems, No, but I do think you know, 715 00:36:36,599 --> 00:36:38,320 they shine a light on it, and it's one of 716 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,039 those things that is like pretty shocking when you get 717 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:45,039 into the details involved, like Malta and some Brits and people. Yeah, 718 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:49,719 and the screenplay rights itself is all I'm saying, you know, 719 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,440 one last thing to sort of throw up, just to 720 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,480 discuss before we you know, wrap this up. A lot 721 00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:58,840 is happening on the federal level that is trickling down 722 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,400 into Texas as all we saw. Vice President Vance was 723 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,159 here this week at the border along with Governor Abbott 724 00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:09,639 and Attorney General Paxton. You know, we obviously saw the 725 00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:13,480 speech from President Trump in which immigration was front and center. 726 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,960 Anything standing out to you on that that we feel 727 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,320 like is gonna you know, we've got a Doge committee now. 728 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,360 Definitely feels like Texas is following in some federal footsteps 729 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,360 on on that. I mean, even the DEI executive order. 730 00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: You know what's next in the Texas Trump love affair. 731 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,679 Speaker 5: Well, you know, encounters that the border are way down, right. 732 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,159 I think there's maybe a little bit more concerned about 733 00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:48,079 tariffs as we continue to go on the tariff coaster 734 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,400 up and down. I actually think though, it feels like 735 00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,119 maybe as the temperature has turned up in d C, 736 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,639 the temperature in Austin has kind of gone down a 737 00:37:56,679 --> 00:37:58,800 little bit. Maybe there's like a feeling of a less 738 00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:00,960 need to be like you need to be the tip 739 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,760 of this spear now and now that we have Donald 740 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,519 Trump in the President's office. 741 00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 3: So I don't know. 742 00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 5: I mean, there's still a long session to go, and 743 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,239 there's going to be a lot of social issues that 744 00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:14,760 come up in between now. But so far, I mean, 745 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,039 it's like we're talking about school finance, We're talking about 746 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,440 the lottery commission. We're talking about water and all those 747 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,280 types of things that it seems like the craziness, the 748 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,280 high temperature type stuff right now is. 749 00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 3: Happening elsewhere that. 750 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 2: A simmer a little bit here in Texas. Yeah, which, 751 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,920 you know, we would take a boring session. I think 752 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,519 I think all of us would be, at least Matthew 753 00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:40,679 and I would you know for. 754 00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 3: TV you need the it bleeds it. 755 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, but no, it's definitely hopefully a little 756 00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:49,280 bit more of a. 757 00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: Low key session. 758 00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 3: Well. 759 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of our episode. 760 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,599 Speaker 2: James, we want to thank you so much for your 761 00:38:54,639 --> 00:38:56,360 time at the Helm of the Texas Trip guest. 762 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,079 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 763 00:38:57,079 --> 00:38:59,119 Speaker 3: I'll miss you, guys, We'll miss you James. 764 00:38:59,280 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. 765 00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:02,199 Speaker 2: You can find all of the episodes of the Tribcast 766 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,599 on YouTube or wherever you find your podcasts. Even though 767 00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:07,119 James is leaving, we are continuing on, so do not 768 00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:10,440 you know, don't look away from YouTube or wherever you 769 00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:14,360 subscribe to podcasts like subscribe Share. If you'd like to 770 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,760 get in touch with us, you can reach us at 771 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,960 Tribcast at Texastribune dot org. Our producers are Robavila and 772 00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:23,280 Chris Phobada. Our theme music is composed by Rob and 773 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,280 two of us. We'll see you next week.