Speaker 1: What is up Fellasiko's I Am Dapa Valley coming at
you with the one the Only mortenset of the NBA
podcast fame of Yahoo Sports, Fame, of Forbes Fame, and
of only Fans Celebrity. We are continuing along with our
biggest offseason questions for every team in the NBA. We're
going by division. Today is the Atlantic Division. You could
go check out all the other divisions we've done. I
think as we're recording this, the NBA Finals are still
going on, so we have not done Central or Northwest
for obvious reasons. All the other ones will be done
after this. And for anyone looking for if we haven't
gotten to your team on the offseason, look aheads. One
huge update, mort has agreed to help us finish those
off as Grant and I deal with some logistical scheduling issues.
And two they will be coming. Some teams are going
to come after the draft, and we haven't been covering
the draft aside from draft pickcap holes anyway. But rest
assured we will get to every team and I'll close
on this freaking subscribe or share these up so is
because we're very close to reaching multiple podcasts a day
territory to make sure all these look aheads and division
things get up. With that little spiel out of the way, Mortz,
how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I am doing well. I've had another person reach out
and ask why they can't find my link on OnlyFans,
So you know, there we go, there we go. Perhaps something.
Speaker 1: Did you tell them it's direct to consumer that they
get their each own individual las they sign up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I probably should, which is great though, like people
genuinely going to only Fans and looking up my name,
that is haunting in many ways.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it feels like there would be
a market for scantily clad NBA analysis and that you
need to corner it. That's what we've just learned from
that list. Absolutely so as a reminder, we will each
pose our biggest question, and we've had a nice dynamic
where mort takes like the super macro view, and then
I'll either step on the toes of that with a
micro question from it, or go something completely different and
it'll be a little bit more micro. These have been fun.
I'm excited to get started and we'll begin alphabetically, just
like always the Boston Celtics. More nothing going on there, right,
what's your big question for them?
Speaker 2: Well, are they gonna take a gap year or are
we looking at a small tear down? I mean we
know that well we don't really know because it hasn't
been said out right, but we suspect that Jason Tatum
is going to miss the entirety off next season. That
would track all things considered, because that's a gruesome injury.
So you have to wonder how are the Celtics going
to attack this. Are they basically going to say, well, look,
we're gonna sign someone to like to like hold us
over for that one year, or are they looking at
this as sort of an opportunity to say, maybe we
start going in a different direction, maybe we start saving
some money Jalen Brown, like perhaps he's not as unavailable
on the on the market. Like that's something that you'll
get into later. I just want to know, like what
is their mindset in all this. Their best player is
going to miss presumably all off next year, that's not
an unsubstantial element, Like that's pretty significant. So what's the
deal though?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look mine's the same, so we'll just attach
it to it. Is will Derek White and or Jalen Brown?
Become part of that collateral damage. Because what I think
is interesting about this situation, and especially what you're saying.
If you hear the word small tear down, I think
Celtics fans or just some people will say, oh, fuck no,
Like it's more likely that the Celtics don't cut salary
and they try and compete without Tatum. Maybe that happens.
I'm open to anything being on the table same but
but here's the thing. I think Jason Tatum's gonna come
back and still be an all NBA level player. But
you're not just talking about next year. You are talking
a little bit about the year after that, where it's
he needs to come back, what does he look like?
And you need to figure out what type of team
you need to have around him at that point because
that part of your team building process of your look
might change. And so when I look at the Celtics,
maybe Jason Tatum comes back and it's just the same
player right away. That'd be great. I'll hope for it.
But the Celtics have to think in those multi year,
longer term like terms, just to say, Okay, if this
is gonna be a two year thing, look at the
age of Derek White. Look at how much Jalen Brown
is owed, and look, we're talking about cutting salary. Let's
throw some numbers out there. This team is twenty five
plus million dollars into the second apron when you're factoring
in their draft pick, and that doesn't include oh, do
you want to bring back Luke Cornette or Al Horford,
both of whom are free agents, And that means if
they wanted to duck the tax entirely more, we're about
shaving more than forty million dollars at that point. From
the bottom line, it's like you're gonna need to trade
some pretty sizable salaries. And the reason I think White
and Brown's names come up is, you know, for Jalen Brown,
all NBA type player on a massive deal, Derek White
just a little older. But it's also because is the
Drew Holiday contract. I think a lot of people might
consider that it's underwater the Christops porzingis contract. It's a
big number, even though it's expiring, and even if you're
the Celtics, you might prefer just to hold on to
that because then it comes off the books next summer
rather than moving him for these smaller salaries that might
trickle in to twenty six, twenty seven. It's a very
complex situation. I don't know what they're gonna do. I
know what I would do. What would you do if
you're like, are you just pulling the ripcord on the
jail and Brown? Such as, like if you're or you
identifying multiple players of this core that you think should
be shipped out, how are you approaching this?
Speaker 2: If you're Boston, I'm open to a lot of different pathways.
If I'm Boston, I'm not saying, oh, I'm gonna stick
with this and then just be you know, pickheaded about it.
Like if an opportunity of risis where I can cut costs,
but I can build something for the future where I
don't want to just give up Jalen Brown for example,
for you know, cap relief that just set him to
Brooklyn for number eight, right, Like, no, I need I
need something in return. I need to do something here,
Like if this is a pivot where I can allow
myself to build something around Jason Tatam moving forward. Yeah,
I'm not closing that door. Although it's a gamble. I
mean it's a risk because you don't really know how
he's gonna look after he returns. But if I can
get off the Jalen Brown contract and I can get
something interesting in return, I'm not definitely not closing that door.
If I can extend with Christops sporsingis on a deal
that's what, not half of what he makes now, but
like maybe in the twenties, like early twenties instead. Yeah,
I'm not opposed to doing that either. Like there are
a lot of different ways you can go about this.
The true Holiday contract, Like that's the one where I'm
like totally willing to just like, oh, you want him, Like,
can we just get off of this one? Sure? Fine,
take him.
Speaker 1: Would you do you think they are gonna need to
attach an asset to Drew Holliday or do you think
there's a team that would be willing to Maybe you're
not gonna just get his contract off, but they would
send back either an expiring contract or contracts or even
just let's say two cheaper players that are then easier
to move on their own.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's I would be open to that, But
I think I do think it will cost an asset.
I do think that will be something that a trading
team will look at and go thirty two point four
million this year, thirty four point eight million next year,
and then there's a player option when he's like half
a billion years old for forty seven point two million.
That is too rich, Like will get three something three.
Speaker 1: Years and one oh four point four in totals a
lot of money when you look at where he's at, a.
Speaker 2: Lot of money for a guy who's thirty five, and like, look,
he's so good. I'm not gonna sit here and say
he in isolation isn't worth the money. That's not what
I'm saying. But for a seem like the Celtics that
are this expensive and they handcuffed themselves dramatically by being
over the second apron. Yeah, I'm willing to pivot because
Drew Holiday in a year is gonna be thirty six,
Like you said, it could be a two year thing
for Jason Satum. Then Holiday is gonna be thirty seven. Then, really, like, honestly,
is he going to be a major asset on the
floor for you? I mean that could go both ways,
but I'm inclined to lean no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's the you could even say, like what
if you just moved him with Derek White and so
then you're talking about so much money just at once
to account for in the trade, because you could view,
all right, we're gonna move Derek White anyway, We'll use
him as count of the asset to get Drew Holiday off,
but we're still getting value in return. The question I
want I ask you is, when you look at these
five players, I'll even say six, Sam Hauser, Peyton Pritchard,
Derek White, Jalen Brown, Stops porzingis Drew Holiday. If I
set the over under at one point five of those
guys being traded over the offseason, would you take the
over the under?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good number. I'm gonna say the under.
For now. I think they're gonna I think one guy
is gonna get moved. I don't know who, but I
think one guy is gonna get moved. And then I
think they're gonna get into the seas and see what's up.
And then by the trade dead line, maybe they're open
to pivoting off player number two.
Speaker 1: So do you think that then they're because they're just
not gonna stay in the second apron I would be shocked.
Do you think if you're saying one player? And I
almost would kind of agree with you at this point.
But if you're saying one player from those six, doesn't
it automatically become Jalen Brown or Drew Holliday if you
are looking to duck the second apron or do you
think they're more likely to say, we'll move one of
those other guys and then we'll figure out how to
duck the second apron in advance of the deadlineer next
year's draft.
Speaker 2: I would assume it's Jalen Brown for another reason as well.
You know, he's got a great reputation. He won the
Finals MVP last year. But I think it's fair. I
think it's fair Dane to say that he did not
have a like whatsoever. And I think it's fair to
say that even though he did one did win the
finals MVP last year, the totality of last season wasn't
fantastic either. Like there are some elements to his game
where I think the Celtics can like look at him
and go, is he somewhat expendable? Like can we manage
without him to a certain extent, to which the answer,
in my opinion is probably yeah. I mean, you can
scale up some of the roles for someone else, Like
I don't think they have next season specifically in mind
to oh, we're going to compete for a championship. No,
I think they know what kind of situation they're in.
But when Jason Tatum returns, he's gonna be the primary scorer.
Maybe even facilitator will see, like what kind of standard
he's going to be in. But Percincas, if he's still
a round, he can get you buckets. He can get
you a lot of numbers. Derek White, you can scale
his roll up. Peyton Pritchard has proven you certainly can
scale roll up. I'll even be willing to say that
I'm not out on Sam Houser being able to play
more minutes and just be more of an offensive factor. Now,
are they going to have a team where their top
eight or nine guys are all like elite two way players. No,
But that was always, to a certain extent at least
somewhat unrealistic that they could hang their hat on that
and then just say, oh, for the next ten years,
we're just like the Alpha. Oh, make a two way
team in the NBA. No, because that two way guys
cost a lot of money, which is very evident when
you look at their cap sheet. Something has to give,
and it probably has to give right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I honestly don't know where I land on that
because it's so I get everything you're saying about Jayleen
Brown and scaling people up, but when you're dealing on
with the timeline horizon you are now and trying to
see what Jason Tatum is. If he comes back and
he is anything less than he was before, that's where
Jalen Brown becomes super important. And if you don't have him,
it's are you just finding with a draft pick or
a diamond in the rough someone who can make up
that gap over the next two years. Maybe I'm also
curious as to you know, we're talking about contracts, but
his I don't know how favorably that's gonna be viewed
around the league. I think this season I'm willing to
give him somewhat of a pass just because I know
he was dealing with the with the knee stuff, but
like he's not getting he's not old, but he's not
getting younger, and like that contract he's on the Supermax,
like that's gonna have to be that'll be a consideration
for for other teams. So I think, yeah, if he's
put on the market, I absolutely think teams like Houston Portland,
like you get, you get teams from like kind of
all phases of their development, will absolutely Maybe even the
Spurs don't love him there. I mean, anyone's a good
fit next to Wenby. But like if you're just with
the spacing issues with Fox and you know, maybe castle
end or Harper there, I think there'd be a market.
Maybe even Sacramento would be willing to give up a
ton for him. I just don't. I need to see
the offer. But then you're also getting like you're not
gonna say I mean, you're probably not gonna save the
twenty five plus million in one deal unless he's going
to the nets. So like how many teams are involved?
What are the subsequent transactions? I'd be very curious though,
to see what the market is, because I do think
I tend to lean with you that if they view
this as more than a one year project, I would
just trade Jellen Brown.
Speaker 2: Right If they could somehow turn Jalen Brown into sack Levine,
that would be interesting.
Speaker 1: What does that serve? So you're only saving like let's
just say ten million bucks or what not even that
next year?
Speaker 2: Like what is that that's the thing, So that would
be the step one right like, because if you go
that route and you say, oh, we bring in another
high priced guy, yeah, you'll probably be looking at making
additional moves. But at the very least Levine who can
play off of better players. Let's just call it what
it is. Kim and Tatum I think would be a
more more cleaner fit, especially with the three points focus
and possible as well, So like you can, you can argue,
do we want to take the ten million dollars less
per year, which by the way, does have dramatic luxury
tax implications, So like you do, shape those off for
a potentially better fit for Jason Tatum, and then you go, Okay,
we found a cheap alternative to be like the quote
unquote number two guy. Now it's time to see if
we can share ourselves from other contracts. And that's when
Drew Holiday you shot him around like your armania. Although
it can who's gonna take that deal? I have no clue.
Speaker 1: I've honestly, if I was Dallas, I would take a
look like if it's Gafford plus, what's the second form
of out going money? I think I was. I think
PJ Washington's probably viewed as more of an asset than
Drew Holiday, especially at his salary and he's expiring. But
that would be a team that I think Drew Halidy
makes a lot of sense and coming first of all,
imagine a defense that has him, Davis and Cooper flag
on it just insane, Derek Lively as well, h and
then he can with the ball handling responsibilities until Kyrie
gets back, and he fits with Kyrie when he comes back.
But again, that might be a situation where you're giving
Dallas a first round pick. To do that, you probably
you probably have to.
Speaker 2: I well, I mean it's Nico Harrison, so who knows.
Speaker 1: Also true, I've been trying to think of Jalen Brown
destinations Memphis, like they have stuff now and like they
could cobble together salary, they have Cole Anthony Colwell, Pope
and then if you want, like would they give up
a Jalen Wells, Like you talk about getting a player
who's super cheap and could.
Speaker 2: Help even know what Memphis is trying to do? Like no,
it feels like there's another shoe to drop and we
don't know what that shoe is.
Speaker 1: So I do I don't think they're trying to rebuild
unless Jaron Jackson Junior says, I'm not extending with you.
But that being said, they did just trade an expensive
Desmond Bine. I don't think they're gonna try and go
get a more expensive Jalen Brown. So that's why I
ruled out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I I'm not putting it besides them to
like actually pivot off of John Morando and Jaron Jackson
Junior this summer. Like I'm not saying it's gonna happen,
but I don't think any door is closed in Memphis
because let's let's be real. Let's just be real. And
I know we're talking about Boston, but what is ultimately
your ceiling with John Morandon Jared Jackson Junior.
Speaker 1: As I look, I think they who made this parallel
I can't even remember and I want to give him
credit for it, But like the Grizzlies feel like they
just decided to be the magic Predesmond Bain trade where
it's sort of like good but like not really going
to get ten for anything special.
Speaker 2: You'll have a point guard who can't shoot and a
big man who can't rebound. That's great man, great starting
point man.
Speaker 1: The Grizzlies fans in the YouTube comes, we're not happy
with your thoughts on Jared Jackson Junior. I don't know
what I guess we did the Southwest.
Speaker 2: I'm critical often, I really am.
Speaker 1: But he like if he's gonna get the max, which
it seems like they're the other thing there. This is
not a Grizzlies pot, but this seems like they're prepared
to dump more money so that they can give him
a raise. They don't have to give him technically until
next summer, So yeah, you should be critical of him.
You don't what a team and there'd have to be
a third team configuration here. But the basis of this
money and it's not gonna save Boston anything, like at
least not a boatload. They'd have to send out another
contract in addition to Jalen Brown. What about some type
of construction with Miami where it's Tyler Hero Wiggins stuff
for Jalen Brown contract X.
Speaker 2: That's interesting because then you split him into those two
deals that you can kind of move individually, and like,
obviously Miami gets the better player, and that's a team
that is notorious for not wanting to tank. I can
get behind that that's fun at the least, I mean,
does it make Miami significantly better? I have my doubts.
Speaker 1: I would look excuse me. I think if you keep
Tyler hero in a trade for Kevin Durant, which they
should absolutely be trying to do, I really don't even
know like how much better that makes Miami. And you're
shortening your window to like two seasons or whatever it
is at least with Jalen Brown, and I'm out of
bio and I'm assuming you could probably get maybe you
can't keep Khalil aware like your window is just a
little bit more open, But I would be Miami just
seems impulsive enough to do that. I wouldn't do it
if I'm then because okay, Bam and Jalen Brown excellent,
the hell are you left with exactly? So that would
be my concern, ye any other Jalen Brown. I do
think if Derek White's available, I see some people say
like they might be able to get two first round
picks for him. I think they get three if they
make him available at least the equivalent like a player
and two picks.
Speaker 2: Right, like a player who's worth the first Yeah, maybe
that's also like the card that they have to play right,
because if you can actually get let's think an expiring
contract that's a little worth a little less than twenty
eight point one he's learning right now, and then the picks,
and if you then make some additional moves, like where
you shave off a couple of millions for guys going out,
I mean I think they need a target, like how
how much lower do the Boston ownership want payroll to be?
Like how many minims do they want to shave off?
Because in this year, this summer, rather this offseason, it's
not going to be easy.
Speaker 1: No one has money, No your best bet is just
like so we know the new salary matching rules for
teams below the first apron, they're just more flexible. So
when you're dealing in the Derek White range, I think
I actually go to a seven and a half million
more you could take in I think one of my
editors just messaged me saying it was eight and a
half now, So I mean, if that's true, it's like,
let's use Houston as an example. If they wanted Derek White,
he's making what is he twenty seven to five next year,
It's like you could take back nineteen million dollars in money,
and so maybe that's it, you know, do they is
it as sign and trade with Fred van Fleet? Like
they're giving you other stuff and Fred van Fleet's like
decide maybe he commands more than nineteen million. Those that
might be a bad example. But like if you can
make a deal with a team and they only have
to give you nineteen million dollars, like, okay, you've only
saved eight and a half million from there, but now
you have the smaller contract, can you move that for
someone who's even cheaper? Like there could be a massive
trickle down effect for that. Yeah, anything else on these Celtics,
But I think though that's like it's kind of a
one question with a bunch of different layers to it
for them.
Speaker 2: Yep, No, I think we're good.
Speaker 1: What do you have to say about the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 2: Well, so I want them to go back to their
trolling days. Remember when they handed out offer sheets to
virtually every free restrictive free agent under the sun.
Speaker 1: Let's see how many we can name Otto Porter, Alan Crab,
Tyler Johnson.
Speaker 2: There we go, Tyler Johnson. That was the one I
was thinking about as well. It just couldn't place the name.
Thank you. They did someone else, right.
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but they did. Those were three like
really big ones like remember troll jobs, right, great troll
jobs kind of like with and then Danny Ainge followed
suit in Utah with that Paul Reid offer sheet two
years ago.
Speaker 2: That's fun. That is good. I mean, look, why not
when you when you're the only team with money? Why
the fuck not?
Speaker 1: I have an answer to that, okay, because when you
look at the restricted free agency market, I feel like
there's a pretty good chance the Nets would win whatever
bid they put in. And so it's like that eBay
thing where it's you better put in a max bid
that you're prepared to pay, otherwise you're gonna be stuck
with Josh Giddy at one hundred and you know, twenty
million dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, they wouldn't be that dumb. They wouldn't
be that dumb.
Speaker 1: Well, who's the restricted Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2: You have Jonathan Kubinka, Like at least there's some interesting
like there's some interesting upside there. I think you and
I agree. He hasn't exactly been in the right system
for a while now, Like there there hasn't been a
lot of faith in him, and and like that's not
to put everything at the feet of Steve Kerr and
the coaching staff there. He also obviously has some responsibility
in how his development has somewhat stacknated. But there is
talent there, considerable talent. I think we can agree on that. Like,
he's very productive on a permanent basis. Would it be
that it reaches if they hinted him an offer sheet
in the mid to late twenties.
Speaker 1: And like four for one hundred, you're thinking how much
four for one hundred?
Speaker 2: Oh, I wouldn't hate that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about them too, is it's kind
of the Ace Bailey conversation where it's you can put
this player on the nets and you know they're going
to get the ball. And I think Jonathan Kaminga very
much needs the ball on offense to just actualize like
the best version of himself and then maybe he can
flesh out the complimentary parts of his game a little
bit more from there. So I think I'd be comfortable
with them doing that.
Speaker 2: And like you're really forcing Golden States to make a
call there.
Speaker 1: Right, because it's like with them, you have to think
about what they're paying Draymond and Steph and Jimmy Butler,
and then you can say, all right, it makes sense
to preserve the asset. But you better believe as Golden
State where Jonathan Kamena's role is going to be different,
but you better believe that his trade value at least sustains,
because there's there's I'll say this, I think if he's
on the books for four for one hundred, there's a
very good chance that deal looks a lot better if
he's a member of the Nets versus if he's a
member of the Warriors, just because of the the gap
in what his.
Speaker 2: Roles would look like, and technically there would be money
left to troll another team afterwards.
Speaker 1: But like, who is who are they? Like you want
to troll the Grizzlies for Santi al Dama?
Speaker 2: I just did you know I was going there?
Speaker 1: Well, because there's not a lot of free RFAs like
that are really worth something this year.
Speaker 2: No, but like I love that, that was the guy
immediately that.
Speaker 1: Was I love I love me some Santi so same same.
Speaker 2: That and look, you can play the center spot. I
don't hate that at the four al Dama, the five I.
Speaker 1: Don't mean good luck getting stops and rebounds, but sure.
Speaker 2: Look, look it's fun. You can run all night long.
Speaker 1: Jordi Fernandez will figure it out. I have confidence in him.
Speaker 2: Right exactly.
Speaker 1: They could be if they wanted to. They could be
just that scenario that you mapped out. I might just
fuck around and say, all right, we'll play Cam Johnson, Claxton, Aldama,
and Kamingo all once about how huge that lineup would.
Speaker 2: Be spacing what the hell? Never mind?
Speaker 1: Well, well, in theory, three of those four shoot, like
Nick Claxton is the only one that wouldn't take like jumpers, So.
Speaker 2: That's true, will shoot.
Speaker 1: Question is if it's preseason, they might go in too, So.
Speaker 2: That's that no. But like I just want them to
go out there and trol the everlasting shit out of teams.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's you could in theory do the same
in unrestricted free agency to where I think agents do
this a lot, where they might say that the nets
are registering interest in I'm just gonna like a Trey
Jones like to try and drive up his market, But
like the Nets, could they could really show interest in
somebody and be like, well, what can we force this
team to pay for so and so, like it doesn't
necessarily have to be just urfas in large part because
that market is just so depleted right now.
Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if they put an offer in for
Kiddie though, I'd be absolutely floored we.
Speaker 1: Could, they'd be worried that they'd win it. But it's
also the bulls. And really, first of all, you don't
need to troll the bulls because they troll themselves exactly like.
Speaker 2: You won't even have to worry. They're just like, no, like,
we wanted the Bulls to have a high payroll, but
you know what, they're going to figure that out themselves.
It's fine.
Speaker 1: If you're the Nets, would you consider just because of
the kminga discussion, like if you get the sense that
Golden State is gonna match, do you value kaminga enough
to where you might want to engage in a sign
and trade talk with Golden State rather than go the
offer sheet route, And say, I mean, giving up Cam
Johnson seems steep for a player that you could in
theory pay out right, But maybe there's something with they
have a bunch of those late first rounders two in
the twenties, the you know, the bottom five.
Speaker 2: So what you're really asking me is, would I be
willing if I'm in the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 1: To give up a late first round pick or maybe
two late first round picks, you know in the twenties.
They'd be this year's picks. I'm not giving future picks.
Speaker 2: Would you be warning to pay them out right instead?
Speaker 1: Well, it's you versus giving him an offer sheet and
maybe just not getting like I'm asking, is your interest
in Comingo purely rooted in We just want to troll
with Golden State and if they don't match it, we'll
take Kmingo. Or is it you're actually interested in Jonathan Comida.
Speaker 2: Oh? I think they could be interested, But like you could,
you could. Two things can be true at the same time.
You control the everlasting shit out of them, but still
want him where you're like, hey, look, we're willing to
go up to a certain level. We're betting that the
Warriors aren't, and we're gonna take it from there. If
we lose Kamenka, Okay, that's a tough thing. But like,
we can go in a different direction. We can pivot,
we can go Santil Dama instead, we can go to
a different player out of position. Quentin Grimes, for example.
So also by the way, just control this.
Speaker 1: Oh that would be that would be a very interesting one.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't hate that Quentin Grimes. There.
Speaker 1: Do you know what two names I would find fat
Just the teams that you would be trolling. That's why
I find it interesting, brook Lopez, just to see if Milwaukee,
like how high is Milwaukee? Like they keep saying they're
gonna be aggressive and they have all this flexibility, let's
test that. And then the other guy who's actually a
pretty good fit for the roster just given his age
and the stuff he does, Nasried has that player option. Oh,
that'd be just like you put those feelers out there
and be like, no, we'll give him twenty five Minnesota,
you get to match.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I like that one. Nasri would be fun.
There a spacing center, and I could play.
Speaker 1: With Claxton if you really wanted him to.
Speaker 2: But also to overtake the position when they inevitably sent
Nick Claxton to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, Oh, I don't. I don't mind
the Lakers as a destination for him.
Speaker 2: Not on me either, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: My question for them kind of steps on as it's
like the opposite of are they actually gonna be in
the business of whether it's by trade or free agency
signing or taking on players with multiple years left on
their contracts, or are they gonna look to conserve space
for the deadline and next summer? And I say the
deadline because that would be a real market inefficiency. Is
if yeah, we know they have to hit the salary
floor now, but like if you have cap space, like
any flexibility whatsoever around the deadline, like that's a huge
market inefficiency because no other team is gonna have that.
I think in Brooklyn's case, they have the ability like
if they just said we don't want to pay cam Thomas,
they can get like eighty million dollars in cap space basically,
well like without blinking an eye. So you could just
split the baby and do both, like yeah, we're gonna
give out like forty million dollars and then like we're
gonna because you have to hit the salary floor anyway.
But I'm just curious because they very clearly didn't take
on any multi year salaries through this trade deadline. When
you look at the Dentis Shuter trades and the door
Anfhony Smith trades, and so it just had me wondering,
as they're kind of going through what people assume is
more of an accelerated reboot because they don't own their
twenty twenty seven pick, might they just be open or
actively trying to still be this flexible or comparably flexible
next summer?
Speaker 2: Really good question. I think right now they have so
many pathways they can go where I think they can
pretty much afford to play everything by ear and they
know that if option A doesn't work out, okay, we
can pivot like these this team has so many pivot
ways that seems that are kept out just don't have
Like do I think they've talked about this. Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Do.
Speaker 2: I also think they've talked about being becoming like a
rental team, like oh, yeah, we'll take on this shitty
contract for you know, draft pied compensation. Absolutely. I think
there's so many avenues that they have opened that I
wouldn't close the door on trade deadline flexibility, especially if
trade the trade deadline is basically going to be the
new free agency slash pre agency. Yeah, Like, why wouldn't it,
Why wouldn't they?
Speaker 1: I was also curious if they would do if there's
an opportunistic not a Yannis situation, but if there's a
star or a fringe show that becomes available that's not
going to command as like isn't gonna get the the
Donovan Mitchell or even like necessarily the Desmond Bain specially
like let's use Trey Young as an example. I'd be
very curiously what Trey Young would get, like after what
Desmond Bain got from the Magic. But it feels like
Trey Young might actually net less for the hot Like
would the next woop in and say this is just
too good in terms of an asset for player coming
back thing to where yeah, we'll burn some of our
flexibility just to have this player in house and then
maybe at the trade deadline or next summer when another
star becomes avail. But you have an infrastructure built around
one star that might attract another and allow you to
make that call after having you know, integrating two higher
lottery picks.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, when when you're really looking at how
some teams are built, some teams, especially smaller market teams,
are identifying players who are undervalued in the sense that
they might not have a lot of trade value. They
might not be you know, tier one stars, but you
can get them for fairly cheap, and then you get it.
To get it, you know, you take a gample on it.
A team that comes to mind. Here are the Pacers,
like when they traded for Tyrese Halbert. I don't think
anyone saw this right, but like, and they gave up
Demats as a bonus, which, yes, that's a big chip
to give up, but obviously they got the better end
of the deal there with Siakam who if Memberciers, he
was also bound to be a free agent, so they
knew going into those negotiations. You know, Toronto didn't really
have a whole lot of arguments working for him, because
how can you ask for the moon for a guy
who's about to be a free agent? Right? That's that
just doesn't track. So like, smart teams will always find
a way to get multiple good players slash star adjacent
players or even hell even stars, and while their value
is pretty low, I assume that the Nets are going
to try to take a similar approach. Because they can't
absorb a ton of money, they do have picks they
can send out, like they they have quality contracts on
their books that are also very very movable, and hell,
they can even get more draft picks if they want to.
Like if a team comes in and says, well, we
want A, B and C and they you know, the
Nets right now only have A and B, they can
probably get see by trading Cameron Johnson. So I'm just
with the Nets. I'm just at this point where the
world's their oyster. They can do whatever the fuck they want,
and the next twelve months are going to be so
goddamn crucial to the long term foundation that they are
going to be building.
Speaker 1: The final thing. I just want to close on them
with are there are any players, and obviously throw out
a few names to you, Like, let's just say teams
are either looking to facilitate other trades by sending in
salary or just in Boston's case, they're trying to cut salary.
I want to throw some names at you, and if
you're the Nets, would you just take these guys? No
asset required, Okay, Okay, Drew Holliday, No I needed an asset. Christophsporzengis,
I'll take him.
Speaker 2: Michael Porter Junior, Okay, I gotta have to look up
how much he's got left. I don't think it's that
many years.
Speaker 1: Right, Like he just has he has the two left.
Now he has this upcoming season and the following two
years seventy something.
Speaker 2: I'll take a gamble on Michael Porter Jr.
Speaker 1: Two years and eighty Sorry I was like two years
and seventy eight.
Speaker 2: But like, okay, what's my motivation here? Because like, what
is Denver just calling me up and asking me to
take him?
Speaker 1: Well, I think in that scenario, like with Boston, it's
they might just want to they're fine maybe getting off KP.
But with Denver, it's or trying to pull off another trade,
but the team doesn't want Michael Porter Junior.
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, so it's got to be like a
three team, like they were going to be a part
of a three teamer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, Sean Marx is too smart to
just say, okay, ok I'll help you guys out.
Speaker 1: I'm just asking in theory because if you're saying, like,
oh no, they would take him, then it's okay. They
might need to send out their twenty thirty two second
like it wouldn't be a sweetener.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, Okay, that way now I get because every
team has to touch, all right, yeah, no, I will
probably take a swing on him.
Speaker 1: Yes, Josh Hart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, why not. He's like earning nothing compared to
what he does.
Speaker 1: I think that's we're not really gonna touch on it
with the Knicks, but that would be like if they
were actually interested in Josh Hart, that would be a
vehicle for the Knicks to think, like, hey, we can
save tm X a bunch of money. If the Nets
are willing just to take on Josh Hart twenty million,
he's not. I don't think he's a bad contract, but
he's not like he's a He's maybe a culture setter,
but he's not like if you're the Nets and you're rebuilding,
Josh Hart doesn't do much for you.
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't. But like, I'm getting a guy in
who takes up what first seen percent of the cap
and who's like a star in his role, and who's
like great in the locker locker room, who gives me
so much more, and I can probably ship him out
for like a couple of firsts after half a season.
Speaker 1: Yeah I do that, Grayson Allen.
Speaker 2: No, there are limits. There are limits. Man.
Speaker 1: Oh that was good. I don't even want to go
on I just I think I'm just gonna I'm just
gonna stop there.
Speaker 2: R J.
Speaker 1: Barrett, I am gonna keep going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do that.
Speaker 1: Kelton Johnson.
Speaker 2: You know what, if you had asked me a year ago,
or hell, just seven months ago, I probably said it. No.
But I spent some time around the team in Paris,
and that dude from a locker room perspective is just fantastic.
His level of enthusiasm and positivity and buying. Yes absolutely.
Speaker 1: Cole Anthony, Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, same. Everything I just said about Kelton applies to
Cole Anthony too. Great dude, great for the locker room.
I think he's fairly cheap. He's been underutilized. A great tone. Yeah, yes,
no hesitation, can.
Speaker 1: Tavia's call out Pope?
Speaker 2: No, sir, you need an asset what you're saying?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Here's here's an interesting one because I wonder if you
could guess the name. But because of his injury, he
in theory fits a timeline where the Nets want to
be bad next year, but want to be good in
twenty twenty six, twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Wow, Jason's hatum.
Speaker 1: No, I would need a few assets. I think de
Jontay Murray.
Speaker 2: I hate that we've come to this, but I would
want assets interesting, Okay, yeah, No, I mean, look, it's
it's a major injury. I love him, I really, I
really do think people have the wrong idea of him
as a player. He was so criticized in Atlanta, and
I'm just not sure why. I like that situation didn't
turn out to be as beneficial to him or the
Hawks as they both sides I think imagined. But I
think he took so much crap for a variety of
reasons that I don't really see being real at any stage.
I think he's a formidable player, but the injury situation
is just it's scarce the Jesus out of me. So
I have to ask for an asseid absolutely.
Speaker 1: I So that would be the one that I think
so far is the only one we disagree on. Is
I would just take him because I think that the
extension is reasonable enough that I can roll the dice.
Speaker 2: It is it is, I understand where that coming from.
But like, imagine if that's an injury that just lingers
for years.
Speaker 1: And he has an ACL on his rear view too.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The last couple of names here, Dylan.
Speaker 2: Brooks without an asset, Yeah, that's twenty two million a year, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's again, that's a player. Houston's
not looking at dump. It's just a part of another trade.
Speaker 2: Now here is that's fine?
Speaker 1: Here's this one Jalen Green.
Speaker 2: He's so young. Yeah, I'll swing. If I'm the Nets.
Speaker 1: Would I would do it and either hope that Cam
Thomas is really cheap or I'm just letting him walk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And then my final I guess too, just because Miami
would do some weird shit Duncan Robinson expiring at about
twenty hours guaranteed. Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, what about
Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins is the type of player who is too
good not to just grab him. Like if I'm willing
to take on Michael Porter Junior for nothing, I'm absolutely
willing to take on Andrew Wiggins for nothing.
Speaker 1: That I'm just kidding. I think there could be some
real opportunity for the Nets to do Andrew Wiggins probably
feels I'm like the super high end of that. My
point with that exercise was I actually think that there
might be some opportunities for the Nets to like make
out like bandits on the trade market, right, not just
talking about prospects and draft equity. But these guys that
they either keep around or they could reflip for something else.
Speaker 2: Yep, same. I think that's a marvelous plan, honestly, because
you know, if teams are desperate enough to dumb guys
in the pursuit of greater endeavors, you should be standing
right under them, being willing to grap whatever you can
because you know those guys aren't worthless. You can, like
you said, you can turn around almost immediately if you
want to and say, hey, now we have Andrew Wiggins,
come get in Boston for whoever.
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still just dying mostly on the inside
at this point at your reaction to Greatson Allen, that's
just look, I get it. Like his the extension seemed
like it was fun, but it was just like not
the deal that you kind of feel, all right, it's
like three years and what like sixty five million dollars
or something or it's not, excuse me, fifty five million
dollars left, whatever it is. So it just wasn't the
deal that I would expected that reaction from. No.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a great it's not a big deal.
I just he's almost thirty. I don't think he's Yeah, yeah,
he's a good shooter. I will give him that. Does
he move the needle at all for anyone ever?
Speaker 1: I think it's like a I mean, the one season
in Phoenix he certainly could have, but I think he
I'm trying to think he might be a touch overpaid,
but I think it's like kind of a shooter, and
then as someone who could make like he there was
some it wasn't so much last year, but the season
before I thought he played a lot better, like maybe
the best defense of his career there. So I think
he could be a needle mover, but he's not a
substantial one. And if you could get rather one year
of Duncan Robinson as opposed to three years of Grace
now and yes, I clearly prefer now an interesting discussion.
Would would rather have Grace now in at three and
fifty five or Michael Porter at two and eighty? Be
interesting discussion?
Speaker 2: But well, Mike, yeah, I'm that I'll lean size there always.
Speaker 1: The Knicks moret what's your question?
Speaker 2: I mean it's the obvious question, right, how do they
acquire dept? We know that they have a starting lineup
that all played over for five minutes per game on TIPS,
So like that problem is probably going to solve itselves
now that that Tips is no longer there. But that said,
they don't really have a lot of quality coming off
the bench, Like Mitch is there, sure, Miles mcbridey is there, fine,
Cameron Payne.
Speaker 1: Free agent, free agent, free agent. If you believe the
Knicks have I'm not saying TIBs was perfect, don't. But
if you believe that the Knicks already have answers on
their roster like to expand the rotation, I question that logic,
just I do. I think Shamit could have helped them
more while he was injured for a lot of the season.
He proved he has Like I think you're basically saying no,
like Tim should have figured out a way to play
Pacomb Dottie or Tyler Kollak and they deserved more developmental reps,
which they're That's probably worth a discussion, But yeah, your
question is I think completely on point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the point of pacomb Daddy eight, right, I
do think it's inexcusable that he only god like what
one hundred and eleven minutes on the year, Like I understand.
I mean, look, I get it, but you have to
invest a certain like a certain amount of minutes to
a first round draft pick. Otherwise it's just a waste.
Why even bother making the selection? Then that's what I
want to know, Like he was the twenty fifth overall selection.
Are we gonna sit here and pretend like the Knicks
couldn't have gotten something interesting from the for the twenty
fifth pick last year?
Speaker 1: Wasn't look at some of the player weren't there a
couple of god Like, let's look at some of the
guys that were drafted after him, Like, couldn't you have
picked it? But again, what it comes down to, though,
is even if you're looking at so and so and
saying all the Knicks could have had him, you've kind
of touched on it where it's would they have played him?
Speaker 2: Oh no, No, I'm like saying other Oh sorry, I I
didn't flesh that out. Well. When I say other players,
I don't mean draft prospects. I mean you could have
traded the twenty fifth selection for a veteran, right like
you going to packaged that with some type of contract,
and you could have probably gotten someone else in there
who would have been a rotation player. But the Knicks opted,
you know, to keep that pick. Well, and I'm sure
there would have been some interest because a first round
draft pick that also comes with four years of team
control that is interesting for a lot of teams, even
if the twenty four draft was pretty shitty. So the
Knicks set to themselves, we are going to prioritize keeping
the twenty fifth selection and we're gonna use it for
absolutely fucking nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the part of it, is just if
you're going to trade it for a rotation player because
of the whole like McHale Bridges trade like they're operating
on fine apron lines. But what you could have done is,
could you have traded number twenty five in twenty twenty
four for another pick in twenty twenty five when you
really need cost control or even further down the road. Yeah,
they could have definitely done something like that. But hey,
maybe whoever they hires the next head coach comes in
and decides that Dottie is going to play more. And
I think fans are probably more peeved that Tyler Kohleik
didn't get more run. But it's just it's tough when
you're supposed to be a contender, and you and I
talked about this on a previous pod. The Knicks also,
relative to a lot of other contenders, didn't play a
lot of low leverage or medium leverage minutes, which is
PBP stats has this thing where those are the minutes
that influence the outcomes the least. And so in theory,
it's not just garbage time. I want to make that clear,
but in theory, like those are the minutes that you
could get away with developmental reps. And I think the
Knicks were in the bottom ten in the league in
the number of low, combined low and right medium leverage
minutes played.
Speaker 2: My question, yeah, go ahead. I was about to complain
that they didn't use marsh On boat Champ enough either,
Like I was just upset. I'm just upset on the
Knicks wind about this.
Speaker 1: So I have I have many questions for this team,
and my biggest question is can they convince Al Horford
design for the Mini MLLE, because I just I want
him there so badly. But my actual question to extend
or not to extend more So, I'm gonna throw a
couple We're gonna go through this player by player, and
we tackled this in their season look ahead, But this
will be a nice digestible for people won't like to
listen to the single team stuff. Karnthy. Towns is eligible
for a two year, one hundred and fifty million dollar
extension that would bring his total to five years and
like three hundred and twenty plus million dollars, So.
Speaker 2: An extension could be for less than that as well.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's you are, and I think what you're hitting
on is interesting is what they could also do. I
just don't want to like throw too much at subscribe
listeners whatever. If you could get him to decline that
sixty one million dollar player option he has and sign
a three year extension that is worth less on average
than he's making. Now, that gets interesting because you got
a plan around getting more expensive with We're gonna talk
about bridges in a second. Jalen Brunson sign a team
friendly deal, But when you combine him with og Ananobi
in Towns like it starts to add up.
Speaker 2: If I can get Towns back on a three year
extension at the fun max number twenty five percent of
the cap, I'm hitting that, I mean, Oh.
Speaker 1: Just does Towns consider the fun max? It does.
Speaker 2: Now that's again I don't think he does. That's what
I'm saying, Like what I would do? I would because again,
why would I give him fordy or forty five percent
of the max which would kick in two years from
now when he's going to be what forty two, forty one,
thirty two?
Speaker 1: Pretty one, right, thirty two?
Speaker 2: I think forty two? God know, although actually.
Speaker 1: You know you're not. I'm looking at this. So when
the extension would kick in, the twenty five percent max
number is over fifty million dollars, and so I'd initially thought,
I know he's eligible for two and one fifty, but
if your towns and his reps, you have to look
at this through the lens of the new CBA. I
don't think that town's in three years is going to
bring a no brainer MAX candidate on the open market.
And so if you offer him three for one fifty
rather than two for one fifty, which kind of aligns
with the fun max, like you're saying, it's probably it's
a little bit less actually, which is kind of wild.
That's you've now shaved. If it's flat, you've saved eleven
million dollars a season, which is won't even it's not
the context, but like that's additional wiggle room to like
either sustain this core make it easier to make other transactions.
And that feels like the number like or that I'll say,
that feels like the hypothetical where if I'm the Knicks,
I am thinking about an extension. Otherwise I'm just we
can deal with this next summer, like if at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look, if you get him for three years,
one fifty and like you said, keep the cat salary
like consistently flat over the course of three years, Remember this,
the CAB is going to increase by ten percent, So
like that CAB percentage is going to get lower and
lower and lower. And that is I think it's going
to be one of the main priorities for every single
team moving forward in trying to like align the cap
because I think, like we shit on the bulls of
Ton and like, again, the Patrick Williams contract is horrible,
but I do like the fact that they kept it flat.
And I do like the fact that you kind of
know what you're dealing with down the line. You're saying, Okay,
this player is getting the same level of compensation three
or four years from now, and we know the cab
is going to increase, so like that actually gives us
necessary wiggle room when it comes to that that same
logic can be applied to Towns easily and by the
time he's thirty two anyway, Yeah, you can probably get
away with the fun Max, right.
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. I'd be I'd just be curious.
I don't even know that I might hear from the
next time. I I want it to be lower than that,
like three for one forty or something or one thirty,
and that probably gets you in the territory he play says, no, like,
forget that, but that's the audience.
Speaker 2: Who else is out there? That's that's that you also
have to consider it. Like I love Towns perfectly personally,
but I also concede that his archetype is not exactly
attractive to teams anymore. Like this is a this is
a scoring center who doesn't defend at a great level,
and we know in today's NBA defensive centers really start everything.
So like he has to be so overwhelmingly efficient and
effective offensively for anyone to say, oh, okay, we'll sacrifice
the defense and we keep talking about Towns kind of
floating in and out of games. Like sure, if Towns
within the next two years has what I think he's
capable of, which is like a hyper efficient thirty point season,
then we can talk. But if he's still like floating
in and out, he's not, and he's still not at
defensive presence, I think you have every advantage in the
book if you're in New York.
Speaker 1: I actually I don't even know if I would do
the three for one fifty thing, just because I'm not
sure for all the reasons you outlaid, I just don't
even know like what he's gonna be, like, I'm waiting
another because then you figure out whether they view him
as a center or power forward before I think they
extend him this next candidate, this next candidate, though mcale
Bridges is eligible for a four year, one hundred and
fifty six point two million dollar extension. I've seen a
lot before I throw it to you of people saying
that's too much, and I just strongly disagree because as
of right now, this is according to bow Track, he
would be the if you give him that extension when
it kicks in in twenty six twenty seven, he would
be about the forty fifth highest paid player in the NBA.
And if you don't think that mcal Bridges is a
top fifty player in the NBA, then you need to
have like other sorts of discussions. And the problem too
is that so if he goes on the open market,
forget about the max that the Knicks could give him.
It's more just because of the eight percent raises versus five.
But he'd be looking at if another team wanted to
max him out next summer, he could get up to
four years and two hundred and nineteen point four million dollars.
I don't know if a team will give that to him,
but I would bet that there would be a four year,
two hundred million dollar offer on the table for him
because there's gonna be more cap space, and there's a
chance when you go through the list of free agents
next summer, there's probably like ten or twelve or even
fifteen guys in front of him. Some of those are
gonna are quote unquote restricted free agents that probably won't
ever reach the open market. And then a bunch of
those other guys, they either have player options for this
summer and they could just get new deals or their
extension eligible themselves. There's a chance that, like Mchal Bridges
becomes one of the most sought after two or three
free agents in the NBA next summer. And so I
think people have are starting to overthink Michal Bridges and
if he's willing to sign that extension, which I believe
he would, because I really do believe that was part
of the calculus when the Knicks gave up so many
draft picks for him, was it was twofold. One, we're
not giving up any players of consequence, and two he's
going to sign this extension that is very manageable, even
if you don't think it's a bargain. Where do you
land on that?
Speaker 2: Could you give me the contract number again? Four years?
Speaker 1: And how many about?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's not even twenty percent of the cap?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, absolutely that I'm not worried about.
Like if it's exclusively like an extension scenario where you
are limited to one hundred and forty percent of the
cap or sorry, one hundred pwy percent of your latest
salary number, Yeah, you lock that up immediately because he
is so like compensated at such a low rate right
now that yeah, you do that in a heartbeat. Now,
I will say this, and this isn't really tied into
his contract because again, if he signs that extension number,
that's perfect. But in terms of his longevity, right, like
he's been available for practically every single Like he has
he ever missed a game? Did he miss in the
second year? I don't remember how it is, but like
he's an iron man, Like he plays so many games
and he plays so many minutes. Are we worried that
he's about to luel dang himself a little bit? Where
when that one year where the body starts to just
break down a little bit, it begins an avalanche of stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, first, to your point, he's not only has he
never missed a game, and but he's actually played an
eighty three games three and then when he did the
Phoenix Brooklyn season, which is like the most Michael Bridge
is stat of all time, he played in eighty three
of eighty two games. I do I find myself thinking
the same way too, to where it's when something doesn't
happen for so long, especially when it's your it's a
run of quote unquote good luck or durability, I'm waiting
for the other shoe to drop of Okay, Yeah, I
think what does help him is that he really hasn't
been in a quote unquote overused player until like the
past couple of years, and honestly it's last year. Is
maybe that the year that he had the trade, he
ended up logging almost thirty six minutes a game because
of how much he played in Phoenix beforehand, But like
this year at thirty seven minutes per game with the Knicks,
like you could, you really could make the case that
there's only been one season where his workload was just
way too heavy.
Speaker 2: I think that's fair. That's a good point. So like
if a new coach comes in and he might be
scaled back to like thirty two, maybe even thirty, I
would feel better about that for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're they're kind of in a situation though, where
even if you don't feel comfortable with one fifty six
like you just have, you're so pot committed to him
you have to If he's.
Speaker 2: Won the accession number, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, no, i
I'm giving him that immediately. It's more along the lines
if he wants to hit the open market, then I'm
scared shitless.
Speaker 1: Now this extension candidate, we actually didn't talk about him
in the Nicks offseason look Ahead. I don't know why
I glossed over that. Mitchell Robinson probably a popular trade candidate.
Thirteen million dollar expiring salary he can extend for four
years and up to eighty one point three million dollars. Again,
this is just the max. It doesn't have to be
that number for a reference though his salary in year one.
If they offered him the full freight, he would be
about the fifteenth to sixteenth highest paid center in the
league as of right now. Now that number might actually
he'd probably go lower because like, does Brook Lopez get
a two year deal that's worth more than that? Miles Turner,
I assume we'll get more than that, nas Reed, I
assume we'll get more than that. So, but you know,
between the fifteenth and twentiest highest paid center in the NBA?
Are you we can talk about different types of number
structures for him. Maybe it's, oh, give him the max
in year one, but then have it declined down kind
of like you did in this current deal. But if
you're the Knicks, are you extending him or are you?
Do you think he's more valuable to them as a
trade asset when considering the injury history and the minutes
load that he is able to ferry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, let's get into the injury history. That's that's
a situation where I just don't feel comfortable at all
handing him out, you know, handing out a long term
contract at the very least. I'm not giving him four years?
Am I giving him three? And then with a team option?
Speaker 1: Well, what if it's four? And like, I don't think
he would sign for four and sixty? Again, maybe he would,
You wouldn't do four and sixty to run through his age.
Speaker 2: D if he's said, well that was the scenario. So
but like if that's in the scenario where it's like
the old Ben Walls contract like six fifteen million a year, Yeah,
well so.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you what's the number then, like per
year that you and you know, like his max extension
would pay him, Let's say an average annual value of
twenty is it? Is it like, you know, sixteen seven?
Like if you went four for seventy? Does that just
feel a lot better to.
Speaker 2: You or I think the I think an even fifteen
feels like that's that's about us as as much as
I can probably swallow. I mean, because again, fifty nine
thirty one seventeen those games played over the past three seasons. Yeah,
that's that's that's a ton of mistime, man.
Speaker 1: And he's only ever he's never averaged thirty minutes a game,
and he's only ever averaged twenty five or more minutes
per game while playing in sixty or more games once. Yeah,
And so I think when you're throwing it around as
a percentage of the cap, like fifteen million dollars per
year for someone who I think is definitely a starting
quality center in the NBA, whether he does or not
a different story, it seems low. But you have to
look at how much he's actually playing and how much
he's actually available, right.
Speaker 2: And that's why I just I'm scared of going longer.
If this guy was routinely playing sixty plus games per year,
I probably feel comfortable with twenty more.
Speaker 1: Which is basically the max.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think that the number is debatable
for sure, but I think that this is someone that
they probably need to extend. I just don't know, like
all the concerns we have about him right now, other
teams will have the same. So what are you actually
getting for his thirteen million dollar salary. If anything, he
might be more valuable valuable to you down the road
at a slightly higher number to match money and with
more years left on his deal to a team. And
so I actually think McHale Bridges is probably the most
important one to extend, just because of all you gave
up to get him. But like I'm extending Mitchell Robinson before,
I'm extending Karl Anthony Towns without questions.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, no question.
Speaker 1: We move on to the Philadelphia, your Philadelphia seventy six ers.
I'm not I'm not taking ownership of them or mister
tapor x Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: So I say you're missing up here INNBA podcast cost
so speaking that.
Speaker 1: Is the pork was the editor that messaged me about that.
Haven't answered him yet about the eight and a half
million rule that I apparently missed. So what's your question
for the seventy six ers more?
Speaker 2: Are they patient about their woeful salary structure or are
they going to be proactive and actually try to get
off some of those big deals. And when I say
big deals, I am not referencing Tyres MAXI I'm referencing
Joel Embiid, Paul George, and I know there are a
lot of people who are still very much in their
feelings about Joel Embiid, as they should because he's been
the heart of the team for so long. But I
don't think we can escape the fact that his contract
is now among the worst in the NBA when you
consider his injury history, the fact that he's getting older.
He's what are we looking at now, Freddy Freddy One,
He himself has said that playing back to backs are
pretty much out of the question, possibly for the rest
of his career, which that's not great to hear. So like,
that's bad. Paul George isn't a lot better. I know
you're higher on him than I am, but I mean,
for some reason, you also think he's about twenty seven.
Then I'm worried about his old ass and the fact
that he's earning that ton of money. So what are
they gonna do? Like, are they just gonna kind of
stand Pad and let Tyrese MAXI, Jared McCain, the I
guess Quentin Grimes in the third pick or whatever pick
they end up drafting, gonna have fun in the meantime, Okay,
But then what's the upside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think what's tricky with that is so Joelbius.
I think Paul George is one sixty two point four
million over the next three years. Joel beats two hundred
and forty eight point one over the next four. Yeah,
I don't like. Let's start with embiid. Are is there
any team that would like just trade for like even
if set But is there anything that wouldn't need assets
attached to that deal right now given the state of
his knee.
Speaker 2: I'm actually not being facetious. I do think the Bulls
would be interesting there. I'm not. I'm not you always laugh,
but like, this is a team that always talks like
wanting to get you know, the big name guy in
and like now I know lately their new spin is
like ten quality players or whatever. But EMBIID is a
selling point and they want butts and seats like they
have made no secret about the fact that they consider
the attempting audience, not the viewing audience, as priority number one.
EMBIID would help them in that regard. So I do
think it seemed like the Bulls that are so rudderless
would look at EMBIID and go oh, he's available, great.
Speaker 1: I don't know they they're not going to look at
that salary and be like, eh, I mean, look talking
about Jerry Rynes off door if.
Speaker 2: Here, Look, this is a team that just got taken
in the post is probably the right way to say
it by the Sacramento Kings and the San Antonio Spurs
again because they dealt with them before they knew they
could take advantage like this is. This is a team
that's the first call for many teams out you know,
outside of that team going basically, hey, if we want
to get off an acid or not an acid, if
we're going to get off a bad contract, if we
have to dump somewhere, let's call up the Bulls. They're
a joke and for them, I think they would be
dead serious about making a play for embad dead serious.
Speaker 1: And if you're the Sixers, you're like, are you looking
for assets back for a beat or just money that's
gonna come off the book sooner?
Speaker 2: Now? I like, if I can, if I find a
team that's dumb enough to give me assets, yeah I'm
taking it. But if I have a team that calls
me and says we'll take him, no strings attached, we'll
just take him. I'm going to ask them if they
need me to play for his plane ticket.
Speaker 1: Here would be an interesting challenge trade if you're just
looking at it through the lens of cap relief, Damian
Lillard for Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dame contract is shorter, it's.
Speaker 1: Only one year left after this. There have to be
another team involved, I'm sure. But they're actually very close
in money next season, I think. I mean, the game
makes a little bit.
Speaker 2: Less if I'm feeling yeah immediately wow, and.
Speaker 1: Then Milwaukee's say, hey, we're trying to figure out how
to cling to the if if it beat pans out
like him and Yannis is a pairing that's pretty formidable.
Speaker 2: Of course, but again, what are the odds at this point?
And be played nineteen games this year and he looked well, I.
Speaker 1: Think if you're Milwaukee, you justified as this guarantees us
Janis for at least another year because he's looking and say, okay,
let's see what happens. And then if he decides to leave.
Speaker 2: Your players have eyes, man.
Speaker 1: But my point being, it seems like Joannis wants to
be in Milwaukee next year even without Dame playing. So
my point is just if it hits, you end up
with a generational talent that extends Giannis's time in Milwaukee
by a factor of years. And if it misses, you're
kind of screwed regardless, because then Giannis is gonna want
to leave after next season anyway. So all right, just
suck it up and pay Embiid for the next three
years while you're rebuilding. I don't. I'm just I find
it tough, just with especially given who runs the Sixers
and Daryl Moury. I just wonder if he would even
do that.
Speaker 2: Here's another challenge. Trade are you willing to include number
three to get off the Joel Embiide contract. Let's say
it's the Nets. The Nets call them up and they say, look,
Nick Claxton, that's the play. Because I don't I don't
think can the Nets actually take on the entirety.
Speaker 1: Of They absolutely can. He's got fifty plus million, they
could do that.
Speaker 2: No, No, Nick Claxton, then just Joel Embiid number three
for my future considerations.
Speaker 1: I find it cash. No, I don't think you could
trade the number three pick to use it as a soul,
because then it's what is your direction thereafter? It's Maxie
and then you still have George and now you don't
have a number three pick coming in as Quenton Limes
and Jared McCain. I don't know what, Like if it
was number three in EMBIID for number eight, sure, but
I don't know if the Nets you want to take
on a bead's money just for the right to move
up three spots and get VJ edgecomber Ace Bailey who
might be trying to follow you anyway, Like.
Speaker 2: No, but like and again I can respect whatever answer
to that question, honestly, Like I get both approaches where
the Sixers might say, no, look, we're just kind of
we're forced to have a relationship with this contract for
a lot of years, or like we're giving up assets
just to get out of it and like start to
start over. Like what about they choose?
Speaker 1: What about? Is it number three in EMBIID for Cam
Johnson and Nick Claxton. So you're not saving money, you're
staying competitive. The Nets are getting a number three picks
still giving up value.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, again, if I'm the Sixers, I hit
that so hard.
Speaker 1: On the Nets though, it's kind of like you're having
number three and number eight plus the other three first
you have there's it's kind of just like, what is
the endgame? I guess you can load, manage and be
through next season while you're still rebuilding. That one's a
little bit more interesting to me.
Speaker 2: I think that's interesting. Yeah, absolutely for Philly. And I
get why Philly fans would be like, are you training
in beid Why? I understand that, Like there's some some
sentimentality h there, which I understand, But let's be honest.
Speaker 1: And by the way, we're kind of going through my
question right now, which is what will they do with
the number three pick? Is it keep it, move down,
use it to lop off salary angle for a blockbuster?
Is it a combination of those things to where it's
number three plus Paul George's salary can actually bring back
what it's not just cap relief. But I think one
of the things the phone around is like number three
and Paul George to get number five from Utah, it's
a lot of money for Utah to absorb to h
and then they're gonna have to send out salary to
make But that's easy of John Collins and Clarkson and Sexton.
But that's that's a lot of baggage to take on
just to move up two spots, you would really have
to want Ace Bailey or VJ. Edgecomb.
Speaker 2: I think if you're the Sixers, would would take Vooch,
Sat Collins and Kevin Herder for Embeid.
Speaker 1: Just that's the trade, the cold Yeah, they're all inspiring. Yeah,
I absolutely would like that's the cold callous perspective is
you could say this is just he's what two years
are moved from his MVP. I get it. But at
the same time, right like we when you're already talking
about not playing back to backs every again, Yeah, I
probably would do that if I'm listening. Do I think
the actual Sixers would do that? I do not think
they would.
Speaker 2: No, I see that's see that's the interesting part because
I agree with that. I think the Sixers value emb
to an extent that we don't call that sentimentality, call
it we hope that things work out. And that level
of optimism, quite frankly, is something I wish I had,
Like I don't. I'm very pessimistic about this this contract.
I'm very pessimistic about his future. I wish I wasn't.
Speaker 1: Do you don't be another interesting trade he would obviously
have to agree to it. The challenge trade would be
like how deep were the Sun's willing to go? Bradley
Beale for Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2: Yeah again shorter contract.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's you know he actually I mean for
all Bradley Beliz he's probably gonna play more than embid
mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Easy.
Speaker 1: By the way, wasn't there is this does Phoenix do? This?
Wasn't it Paul George and number three for Kevin Durant
as kind of the framework if your phoenix is that?
Speaker 2: I mean again, that was I pitched that to you
at some point.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's where I heard it.
Speaker 2: Then, Yeah, that you called me insane, and that's fair.
I don't think you called me insane.
Speaker 1: No, not not not the Kevin Durant one. You think
you were using like number three and Paul George like
to Brooklyn and that was the trade. I thought that
was all right?
Speaker 2: It was see had you caught that, because I you're
absolutely right that was Paul George. That wasn't in beat.
Speaker 1: I criticize you a lot. The Kevin Durant for number
three and Paul George. I don't think that would have
been one of my criticisms. That one. I was kind
of I had paused for the Sixers because it's like,
so we're worried about the way that Paul George is
gonna age over the next three years, but like, so
you're gonna give up number three so that you can
sign Kevin Durant for another two years and one twenty
two So like now you're paying him three years and
one hundred and like eighty million dollars to it. So
I just I don't that one's that one makes me
think like for next year. Yeah, but like you still
if Embiid doesn't play, I don't know where that leaves
you as the Sixers.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, Paul George played forty one games. He's
not exactly been a pillar of health either, Like I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. It just feels like in that scenario,
you're trading in one problem for like a different, Yeah one,
it'd be if you told me Embiid was gonna play
in sixty five games the next two years. I do
that trade in a heartbeat for Kevin Durant. But like
you're getting older while giving up the number three pick,
which just seems counterintuitive.
Speaker 2: Have you ever like stopped and considered how often we
discuss these, you know, let's just say it, older guys
who are on these ridiculously large contracts once again seems
just fall into that habit of paying old past prime
players a dramatic amount of money, and it's always so
predictably stupid.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think I really do believe. I don't
know if it's gonna happen this summer. And I think
when it's Lebron, when it's KD, they will still continue
to pay those guys. When it's Steph. But the the
Paul George situation, just to use the most recent example,
I think we're gonna see less and less of that
in the new CBA. I think even the Jaylen Brown example,
who's not older, I don't even know if those guys
are gonna be guaranteed the thirty percent max anymore, let
alone the supermax if they become eligible.
Speaker 2: I hope this change just because it just it boggles
my mind and has for years. Why did you know
the the the allowed max increases the older you become,
Like the ten years of service slash now you're eligible
for forty five percent of the salary cap just seems
so stupid. To me, because of course someone with name
and brand recognition, they're like, I'm worth it, Like I
want the forty five percent max. So some seems like, yeah,
well we need butts and seats, so we'll give it
to you.
Speaker 1: That's that's like corporate America in a nutshell though, because
it's just like when you have these CEOs that are
a bunch of white dudes in their sixties making more
money than they ever have, but you know that they're
not pulling their weight relative to like the people that
actually hustle. It's when you're that's now, this is agism
and it doesn't apply to everybody. So I recognize there's
that stereotype as well. But yeah, it's I think it's
tough throughout my head around because like I don't want
people to be telling me I need to take a
pay cut when I'm turning sixty or something. But when
you're dealing it this scale, I totally get. Like it's
just different when you're talking about the average worker versus
an NBA player or corporate it's way different.
Speaker 2: Like could you imagine if Dame signed for the fun
Max instead like twenty five percent? I don't he wouldn't
go hungry, Dan.
Speaker 1: He's got a family to feed. Man the Treill's pretty well.
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember that, And I remember the exact number
two that was three years, twenty one million, and he
was like, I have kids to feed.
Speaker 1: We gotta look, we gotta pour one out for David Zaslov.
His total compensation when you include stock options, I think,
is dropping from like fifty or sixty to like ten million.
I don't even know how he's supposed to survive on
that CEO of Warner met or whatever his title is
for Warner Discovery that they like to show on the
Maybe they won't anymore since my parent company no longer
owns the rights, but like showing him on the celebrity row,
it's just like we got to stop. What fine.
Speaker 2: I'm still very disappointed that he killed the Batgirl film.
I will always resent him for that.
Speaker 1: Isn't him for a lot of things. But that's neither
here nor there. Are we ready to move on? What
do you think so quick? Just synopsis? Do you think
doesn't have to be Some of this stuff will happen
after the draft? Fast forward to opening night. The number
three pick, the player that has taken with it is
that player on Philly or another team.
Speaker 2: I mean, so you're asking me specifically about a player
taken at the third pick. I do not think that
player is on the Philadelphia seventy six ers.
Speaker 1: And that encompasses all the scenarios, whether it's just to
move down or like you said, using it to get
off salary. Yeah, let's talk and wrap up with the
Toronto Raptors more. What's your question?
Speaker 2: My question is one out of frustration because it's not
really a question, it's just a roster balance much. I mean,
I actually, look, I've said this before, I'm going to
repeat myself. I did not hate that version of the
tern Our Raptors that entered this season. Unfortunately, injuries disallowed
them from really getting into the swing of things. Like
you had Manual Quickly missed games, you had Argie Barrett
Mas games, you had Scottie Barnes miss games. They never
went on like the same timeline in terms of the season,
and that was a big shame. I hated it because
I wanted to see what that team would look like
and we never got a chance to see it. And
now we won't Dan because they traded for Brandon Ingram
and then gave him forty freakin' million, and now I
am like dimensions less enthused about that team.
Speaker 1: Okay, who did they give up? That ruin the team?
Speaker 2: It's basically him coming in and taking the ball, controlling
the ball. He's not exactly a seamless injection, seamless fit.
I would argue, now you have like these three wings
that has to figure it out. You have a you
know quickly, you have Grady Dick, you have Yaka Perle
like it's just yep, thank you, that's a good name.
It just seems to me that now there are too
many chefs in the kitchen, especially at the wing spot.
I would have liked to see how this team would
have looked minus, specifically, you know, a brandon Ingram type.
I have wanted to see someone who was more off
ball inclined, more three point oriented, not someone who has
been very reluctant as a shooter. I'm just fearful that
we're going to see like the first version of multiple
bald hinder syndrome.
Speaker 1: I think that is a real risk. But I want
to tell you I'm more optimistic than you are.
Speaker 2: Great, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: RJ. Barrett gets shipped from New York to Toronto, and
I think this season, when you look at the way
he plays early on, it was encouraging the playmaking ebbs
and flows, of course, like every season, but they were
so banged up. But he comes over from the knicks,
they start to get him. This is not someone who
is doing this a lot in New York. They started
to get him moving more without the ball, getting him runway.
He goes from where it was like I think sixty
percent of his two pointers that season in New York
were going unassisted to now sixty two sixty three percent
of his two pointers in Toronto are going assisted. And
they have a blueprint with their system to get guys
who are maybe not used to working off the ball
as much, not just to be catch and shoot guys,
but due to a move without the ball under darker Ryakovic,
and I think that's part of the reason why I
think that he's I don't know if you could be
underrated when you've only been coaching for a couple seasons,
but I think just what he's done in Toronto, it
hasn't amounted to wins, but I think that there's a
style there that it it can work with players where
they become tough to fit together. Now to your point,
you are, it's different when you have r. J. Barrett
and Scottie Barnes and I'm gonna use yaka Pertle just
because he's a non spacer. And now you're just adding
like you're adding r. J. Barrett into a situation where oh,
there's like only one guy in Scotty Barnes who needs
to have the ball a ton. Now you're adding Brandon
Ingram to where in theory, okay, manual quickly moves well
off the ball, but so yes, there's more chefs there,
and so I think that's a risk. I'm more optimistic
just because I think that the way that their offense
is run if you can find a way to put
and this is this is the bigger problem actually for me.
How do you surround especially if you're gonna play Ingram
and Barrett and Barns together for any stretches at a time,
it needs to be with two other shooters around them.
So quickly one done. But now you're in a situation
where you need your five to probably space the floor.
Speaker 2: Which, say, Chris Bouchet, you're about to make a Chris
Bouchet point.
Speaker 1: Well, I was actually so you know me too well,
But like that that you I'm just saying for that
type of lineup structure. Bringing Chris Bouchet back, however, and no,
probably will. He's just gonna He's gonna get a statue
in Toronto. I think at this point that's pretty pretty cemented.
But like that is more of the challenge to me,
or it's, oh, we have to stagger these guys a bunch,
because I think what we've seen with Toronto's offense, and
especially I'm more inturaged because pretty much a lot of
that time a small They did have Kelly Olnick there
as well, but it's not like they've had pristine spacing
at all. Like over these past couple seasons, like Emmanuel
Quickly has been battling injuries too, Scotty Barnes's jumper waxes
and wings. RJ. Barrett Ebbs and flows to his jumper
as well, and defenses don't really like respect him the
way that they would other guys. So I'm more optimistic,
but I think to me, it's more about you need
to optimize the chess pieces that are around them if
you're gonna move forward with again, the three guys, I'm
looking or I'm gonna frame it this way. If you're
gonna plan to move forward with at least three of
the four, let alone all four of Yaka bertle RJ Barrett,
Scottie Barnes and Brandon Ingram, there's like, we gotta see
a material shift in the supporting cast or Grady Dick
needs to make them on leap. And again, even at
that point, I think you probably need a different look
at the five. We're not saying you have to move Purtle,
but like you need some spacing at that position.
Speaker 2: I seem to recall after the quickly no sorry, not
quickly Incram acquisition raptures fans making some of the same
points about oh, this team is going to need more
floor spacing and someone we're bringing up Booch as like
because as a one year thing. I like that in theory,
but my question is what then, like he doesn't fit
the timeline. Spacing centers are not always easy to find.
I just what if you're relying upon identifying and acquiring
a floor spacing, big man, that's a tough ask.
Speaker 1: What about Karl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 2: What are you relinquishing?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you have to. I mean there's
probably a third teams. I don't know if the Nicks
want r. J. Barrett back, but you have the Pearl salary,
you have the Barrett salary. I don't think you're not
giving up quickly in that scenario. So it's like you
can get to you have Dick, you have Akbaji, Like
you could make like if you were the Knicks and
said we're we'll find we'll take Yaka Peerdle and are
you giving them Dick and or Akbaji and then you're
finding a taker for RJ. Barrett. At that point you
can make the math work. I don't know what you
have to really believe in your defense at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah you do. But that would also be fun in
New York because you get more bodies, more bodies, more depth.
Yeah yeah, And as you just said, yeah, love to
give New York Dick.
Speaker 1: Great, And there's also just they're not gonna they would
have to like there still need to be moves made,
but like getting a Brook Lopez here or not. He's
older though, so you're you're concerned about the wronger horizon.
Is there something to be done with Minnesota and nas
reed in a sign and trade scenario.
Speaker 2: That'd be fun. That'd be fun. Again, salary wise, you'd
needs identify the right pieces. They'd have to be interested.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, the Nets just have to be involved
in all these scenarios. Is just like this tret go Someboddy. Hey,
you already said you'd take on RJ. Barrett. So if
it's like Minnesota's getting Picks or nas Reed and the
Nets are getting Barrett, maybe that's the framework.
Speaker 2: There are the Nets going to be the team that
makes the most traits this summer.
Speaker 1: We recorded Grant and I recorded a podcast where we
essentially said that they're the team that's going to define
the NBA off season because I don't think, yeah, any
major blockbuster deal like goes down without them being digentially involved.
Speaker 2: That feels like fair, a fair compromise.
Speaker 1: So we're kind of this is why this exercise fun.
We're kind of talking about my question too, which is
I don't know if you saw the report it was
about like at the beginning of June. I believe it
was Brian Windhorst had it where he said that the
Raptors are in the market for a big fish, which
I find fascinating because in theory, Brandon Ingram was the
big fish at the trade deadline because of the opportunistic
cost it was to get him, and he's yet to
take the floor for them. So we're talking about how
do you make this work? Would if you're the Raptors,
would you consider, like we're even talking about nas Reed
is like kind of a moderate move, But are you
making like a big move if you're the Raptors without
having seen any of this really and like Brandon Ingram
is just has not played for the Raptors yet that
we haven't seen him with Scottie Barnes or Argie Barrett
or Quickly or Pertle nobody. If you're the Raptors or you, like,
do you think that you just have enough information on
what this team is going to be that you would
I guess the Kevin Durant conversation is one thing, but
like that you would just go out and get another
big fish immediately after, oh, semi immediately after acquiring one
and not having seen him play yet.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a very boring answer that depends
on who the big fish is, specifically.
Speaker 1: Towns.
Speaker 2: I mean, then I guess I'm okay with that because
it's a great positional need. But like you said, you
have to trust the defense, you have to trust everything,
or you have to want to be the next Pacers
in regards to let's lead the league in scoring and pace.
And I could see that, Like I don't mind teams
leaning into a certain identity. It's fine. Like if the
Raptors want to say, fuck defense, let's score one forty, sure,
they're probably gonna be like a top five league pass team.
For me, it just has to make sense.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'll throw some names out there. Then
this is this is a fun exercise. Christops porzingis two
injury throwned.
Speaker 2: I don't trust it even on the expiring No, the
contractual element is fine. It's like how many games are
we gonna get out of it?
Speaker 1: What about Jaron Jackson Junior. Let's say the Memphis Grizzlies
do decide to rebuild.
Speaker 2: See, that is a fun team for him as well.
More wings there to help out on the rebounding. I
don't hate that even quickly. It's like a really good
rebound for his size. So like his shortcomings on in
that particular branch of basketball might actually not be amplified
in the same way that it's been before, offers, floor spacing,
offers damn near a point per minute. Yeah, I don't
hate that, that's fun. What did you do?
Speaker 1: I threw his name out there already, But Kevin Durant
like the tray that's been floating around as would you
give up the whoever you draft at number nine with?
It's probably two It's like RJ. Barrett and Perle. Let's
just say, is like the money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that begins to be a little tight, right like that,
Then you're like, that's a lot to give up for
a thirty seven year old, despite the fact that he's
still immensely.
Speaker 1: Great domas a bonus.
Speaker 2: I love sa bonus, but I am generally pivoting off
none to three none. D guys, I know you're higher
on him as a shooter than I am, and I
concede that the percentages have been perfectly reasonable as a plate.
The volume, however, is still low to a point where
I'm not entirely buying into that yet I think that's fair.
Speaker 1: And also that's someone else who's best with the ball
in his hands for the most part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's another chef.
Speaker 1: You said yes to nas Read already, right, Yeah, what
about who do we got here about Bam at a baio.
Speaker 2: I trust his floor spacing capabilities now I think we've
gotten that up to a reasonable amount. Yeah, like that's
god Like you'd have to give up a ton for
Bam right, Like what.
Speaker 1: They said big fish.
Speaker 2: He's a big fish. Yeah, Like I just wonder what
the deal is.
Speaker 1: You don't be interesting? Yeah, from a four spacing perspective. No,
But Anthony Davis, if the MAVs do decide to pivot
and rebuild around Cooper Flag.
Speaker 2: Do you think Scottie Barnes is even being entertained as
a trade option?
Speaker 1: Depending I'll go back to your answer of I think
it just depends. Like if it's the honest yes, I
think there's a level. If it's for a top ten player,
I would say yes. After that it's I think you
probably get dicey, like there are a name, like if
it's if it's Jayleen Brown, I'd probably say no, especially
looking at the contracts.
Speaker 2: Am I being harsh by saying I still don't have
any idea what Scotty Barnes really is.
Speaker 1: I don't know what his ceiling is. I think his
general ceiling to me as all NBA player I think
that is still there, just the positional versatility and functional
versatility on defense, and he has that same element on offense.
The jumper needs to be this swing like we've just
kind of seen hints of, and I know that's reductive,
but we've seen the three point shot, evan throw. We've
seen kind of the ebb and flow. We've seen the
pull up two is kind of ebb and flow. I
think he's shown as a playmaker strides and all. I
was like, maybe kind of doing some of the big
man stuff. And now that you have all these ball handlers,
it's or do we need to look at Scottie Barnes
as the screener more often? I'm still I'm very high
on Scotty Barnes.
Speaker 2: That's fair. I used to compare him to like a
new era Andrew Igodala Andre Igodala, and I think so
far I'm not hating that comp as opposed to, like,
you know, a year one superstar who I think I
think a lot of people went that route and I
got caught up in that as well. After his rookie season,
like I thought, oh good Lord, for someone that young
to be that productive at both sides of the ball, Like,
hell yeah, I was expecting significant improvement already in the
year two, and like now in year four, it felt
like he had like this one jump from year two
to year three and then kind of stagnated again. So
like it feels like we have two cases of him stagnating.
That can certain me.
Speaker 1: I think next year is a huge year for him.
That's another you want another reductive take, that's my take.
I think next year is huge.
Speaker 2: It's yeah. I mean, look, when he was this was
earlier in his career, I heard some things, you know,
that he just didn't really take the game all that seriously,
that he didn't have the necessary work ethic. That scared
theajesus out of me. Then he apparently started taking things
way more like seriously. He started ramping up his workouts,
and then he had the All Star season last year,
which just to me, that just begs the question, what
happened in between year three and year four? What happened?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we sometimes also forget that these
guys are kids, Like I know, they're making millions of
dollars responsibility and come to but I just sometimes when
it comes to you know, diets, I try to think
about like I've become I fancy myself like a fitness junkie,
wannabe whatever. Right, that didn't click for me until my
late twenties. Okay, like that, when I became I really
focused on nutrition and stuff. So I just I know
they have it's a different situation. Like, but I think
we sometimes just forget, Like I don't even know if
it's a matter of clicking of just like Okay, you
come in, you're this, and then it's all right. I'm
just maturing a little bit.
Speaker 2: Like and I get that, and I buy that, But
it also means that I, as an NBA organization will
have to eventually make a call on where do we
have him here? Like is he our franchise player? Is
he more of a complimentary player? And I'm not saying
this to criticize him, by the way, I actually greatly
enjoy watching him play. I think he provides so many
interesting and fascinating aspects in terms of like the rebounding,
the playmaking when he pushes the ball, like the ball
handling at his size, the fact that he just wraps
so many steals that he gets into like challenging shots
at the rim, like there's really no shots that's safe
around him, so like he does give you a shit
ton of positives. I'm not trying to talk him down,
but I do think that if he is to be
like your main guy, especially nowadays scoring and especially the
scoring efficiency, it has to be like a part of
that package.
Speaker 1: I think the fact that they've been linked to wanting
a bigger fish makes me wonder, and even the fact
that they brought in Red and Ingram makes me wonder
if they view Scottie Barnes offensively as more of their
number two option. Moving toward is something I've given a
lot of consideration too.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, that would be fantastic, especially if the
shot comes around a little bit, because I would go
as far as to say, Dan, even in today's NBA,
if your second option is hitting twenty seven percent of
his threes, that's that's a concern.
Speaker 1: Again, I would also just like to see him in
a different environment where there is better spacing around him.
What does that look like? For sure? Last couple of
names after you, Jabari Smith.
Speaker 2: In terms of like the guy who should be brought.
Speaker 1: In like you could play, but the five does give
you from fourth basing there.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not high on Jabbari, but this might
be a situation where I think that is like he
would get more chances there, which would finally reveal who
he is as a player. So yeah, I don't hate that.
Speaker 1: Yo would be right up this team's ALI and just
really shouldn't be playing full time five, but he could
play some time for them. Would be PJ. Washington six seven.
Speaker 2: I he'd be smaller than most of their wings.
Speaker 1: And by the way you mentioned this is why I'll
bring this guy up too, Like, if you're just looking
for lower end solutions, like this might be a Jalen
Smith team, come in and give you some stretch at
the five spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be good. I would like to see
him get more minutes somewhere. This could be fun, especially
if they lean into the offensive side, because Jalen Smith
can hoop and he can score, man, he can score
at a great so and he's not afraid to pull
the trick on from the outside either. That'd be fun.
And he can even block shots even though he's not
the best defender, and its rebounding is freaking elite. Now
that that name might be my favorite.
Speaker 1: And this isn't a center, but I think like He's
the player that ideally a Grady Dick and or a
Knock Bajie would be. I don't think he's available, but
I've seen his name thrown out there just a bunch
when it comes to people speculating. And I also think
people need to either watch him more just because the
offers I've seen just don't align with anywhere near his value.
But you have number nine as a starting point, and
you can include Dick and ak Baji and future picks.
This team needs a Trey Murphy. I mean, I guess
every team could need a Trey Murphy, but specifically this
team needs a Trey Murphy.
Speaker 2: And another another way you want to you want to
just have it seam full of small forwards.
Speaker 1: I can tell well, No, I'm saying you need shooting
around these primary ball handlers, even if you're gonna stagger them,
so you figure out the center like it's I don't
think they just need a floor spacing center. I think
they need flour spacing period.
Speaker 2: I agree. But like if you if you're not moving
Barns or Ingram or Barrett right in that scenario, I.
Speaker 1: Mean you could move Barrett. I think the only good
I mean you're obviously not gonna move Ingram back to
New Orleans, like we know.
Speaker 2: That, but right obviously, but like it was just I mean, look,
I could I could have fun with that, like if
you add him so that you have four small forwards
and like a Leite guard, fucking let's get nuts.
Speaker 1: And it's look, I think that's just when you're looking
at free agency in either minimums or bargains, like this
should be a team that's like, okay, we take a
flyer on a Andrey Shaman or a Luke Canard like
they that's just the that doesn't fix everything. But I
think that that paper's over, like just some of their
functional like redundancies that they have offensively Anyway.
Speaker 2: Mister remembering A wasn't Lukenard there at one point in Toronto.
Oh he was not. I don't know why. I was
picturing him in a raptures jerracy and that felt like
that was resembling something, So I might just be projecting onwards.
That's a good name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yo could also work here. I mean, he would
have to go back to shooting threes, but Isaiah Stewart
might be interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm very much for a three point shooting Isaia.
Speaker 1: Stewart again doesn't have to be a sign in trade,
and we already mentioned him. I don't even remember for
what team, Oh the Nets, but Santi al Dama yep.
Speaker 2: Yep, again fun not not defensively great, but yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Guess my point would be the Santi al Dama, the
Isaiah Stewart, like those level of players, feels like a
move that I would I think Toronto should pursue and
could make. But like short of the Durant, one's interesting,
but like short of just we're not talking about this
name yet and they become available and it's a no brainer.
I just can't see this team actually going the big
big fish route without having seen what. I'll to single
out two names specifically, like what does the Barnes Ingram
dynamic look like?
Speaker 2: Right? Do you think teams are caught up in that
so much? Though?
Speaker 1: There if you want to maximize them, you almost can't
be because it might require that. But if also if
you traded for brandon Ingram and then gave them forty
million bucks a year with the idea that, yeah, we
need to go out and make one more massive move.
But that's a little problematic.
Speaker 2: No, I don't disagree, but I just wonder if teams
are like, you know, we have so much data on
these guys, we have a like a conceptual theory in
mind of how this will look, and we can go
off of that. Not saying I agree with it, but.
Speaker 1: Again I also think in the Raptor's case, just because
we've seen it before, is they might have just viewed
the brand and Ingram situation as look at how little
we needed to give up to get someone who in
a vacuum has way more value than that, and like
that's why they're interested in Kevin Durant. It's okay, might
only be for a year, but it actually increases our
title equity, maybe cleans up our books a little bit
moving forward. And we're getting this player who who if
he was to be traded and like you knew that
if he had two years left on his deal, like
it would cost more to get him. And it feels
like that's how the Messiah Jerry Bobby Webster front office
really thinks, which I don't hate that aspect of it.
So I find their off season, we haven't done their
off season look good yet, but I find their off
season wildly fascinating. You have anything else on the Atlantic
division or are you ready to skidaddle?
Speaker 2: I think I'm ready to scaaal for this time, sir.
Speaker 1: Can you just tell our listeners where they can find
you and all the fantastic erotica that you put out?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all my erotica can be found. Uh well,
not all of it at the same place, but you
can get it's softcore at least now. I mean, the
summer is just getting started, so we'll see. But you
can find our work over at Yahoo Sports. You can
find a little at Forbes, at the NP podcast, and
in the Game issue over at us Strong.
Speaker 1: Until next time, and as always, we would the shout out
to the one the only future maxed out Toronto Raptors
floor spacing Center, mister Frank Quila Quila