WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.080 Virgin Media broadband is smooth. How smooth you ask? Well, 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.119 Imagine you're a big old war Russ and rather than 3 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.119 lumbering around a glacier avoiding polar bears, you're on a lake, 4 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:18.320 driving a speedboat three thousand kilos of mollusk, munching magnificence, 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.480 feeling the wind in your whiskers and the sun on 6 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:26.519 your big blubbery face. That's the kind of smoothness you feel. 7 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:28.559 With ninety nine point nine percent. 8 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:35.320 Broadband reliability available nationwide Virgin Media, it's playtime subject to 9 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:36.280 location availability. 10 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.000 Teas He's apply for broadland reliability see Virgin Media dot 11 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.039 I E Forward slash proof. 12 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.200 No, hey, it's that TBT pick from when You War 13 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.159 baggy jeans and shell necklaces. Alley word. I'm back with 14 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.920 a pop cultural psychological episode. It's going to become very 15 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.880 dear to your heart because it's about why something is 16 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:55.880 dear to your heart. First, you're dear to me. Patrons, 17 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:57.840 Thanks for paying a dollar or more a month to 18 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.280 submit your questions to ologists. Thanks to everyone who talks 19 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.439 and tweets about the show. Thanks to everyone leaving reviews, 20 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:05.359 which I read every single one. I churned back at you, 21 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.959 such as this one written this week by Michigan or 22 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.560 Lady t Lav, who wrote, Yeah love Ologies. While sitting 23 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:13.560 in my car in the elementary school pickup lane, I 24 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:15.719 was listening to ologies with my windows down, and as 25 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.079 another mom walked by, she shouted, Hey, that's ologies. I 26 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.079 got so excited to happen upon another ologite in the wild. 27 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.920 I became flum mixed and could only reply, yeah, love ologies. 28 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.640 Finding your own people so fun, Lady t Lav, so timely, 29 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.159 you have no idea, So panthropology, let's do this episode? 30 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.920 You ready, okay? So Phanthropology is indeed a real term. 31 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:40.200 It was coined by Kristin Longfield, a marketing strategist who 32 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.040 used to work at Trailer Park. They make movie trailers 33 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:44.920 and they have a very confusing name if you were 34 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.000 not in the entertainment business. But the fan part of 35 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.719 panthropology comes from the word fanatic, which stemmed from the 36 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.680 Latin for a temple or a sacred place, and fanatic 37 00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.120 meant insanely but divinely inspired. But we have been using 38 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:03.400 it to mean a person who hella dig something since 39 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.480 the mid sixteen hundreds, long before we had TV series 40 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.159 to gobble up and comic books to love, although, let's 41 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:14.840 be honest, illuminated manuscripts from the Middle Ages kind of 42 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.120 like comic books, but with more horses and demon babies 43 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.120 and gold leaf. But either way, this ologist happened to 44 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.039 meet my now fiance a year or two ago, I think, 45 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:26.479 and he demanded her business card to give me. And 46 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.840 I have wanted to record this episode at least for 47 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.360 a year. We're both LA based, and we kept waiting 48 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:36.960 for the pandemic to pass. But alas, we just recently 49 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.639 recorded over the phone, and it was such a compelling 50 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:42.000 and interesting look at why we love what we love. 51 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:45.560 We talked for nearly two hours, didn't even take a 52 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:47.840 pee break, to be honest, I just adore her. 53 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:48.199 So. 54 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:52.879 She studied communication and culture at Indiana University Gohoosias and 55 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:56.520 got her masters at UCLA and Critical Media Studies and 56 00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:00.800 Fan Studies. She has been consulting and on staff as 57 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:05.800 an anthropologist and a researcher at marketing firms and entertainment companies. 58 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.919 She runs her own called Random Machine. We talked so 59 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.439 long about so many things that y'all love that I 60 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.960 could not cut this down into a single episode. So 61 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.240 feast your ears on a delicious two parter. Next week, 62 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.439 we're going to dive in even more into stands versus fans, 63 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:26.280 where's the line, shipping people, toxic fandoms, formulas on attaining 64 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.680 Internet fame, and this episode you're about to hear we 65 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:33.520 lay all the groundwork talking about the history of fandoms, 66 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:38.280 what a fandom even is, Disney bounding her favorite things, 67 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:45.080 and sports versus art fanatics, kpop politics, Trekki's Star Wars prequels, 68 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:48.800 the Curse of the Algorithm, and what to do when 69 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:53.520 your favorite books are penned by problematic trolls, creating your 70 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.520 own fan base, self identifying morality, all kinds of stuff. 71 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.560 So cozy up and get to know and love behavioral 72 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:05.639 researcher and legit professional on her business card un ironically 73 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:26.839 panthropologist Meredith Levine. 74 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:32.560 I am Meredith Levine and my pronouns are she her great? 75 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:40.120 Now you are a panthropologist, I am You're the first 76 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:42.759 anthropologist I have ever heard of? Are you the only 77 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:43.439 one on Earth? 78 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.439 I am, by no means the only one on Earth? 79 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.879 In fact, the title is not even of my origin. 80 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.600 The title I heard at while I was still in 81 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:56.000 graduate school. I went to a session with a woman 82 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.160 named Chris who was working at trailer park at the time, 83 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:02.319 who now has her own consultancy called Panthropology. He and 84 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.800 it matched onto what I was studying at the time 85 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:07.480 and said, hey, I want to do that for a 86 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:11.040 living m hm. And so it stuck with me for 87 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.519 the last ten years of my professional career. 88 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.240 It's so perfect. I love that it just kind of 89 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.319 says everything. And it's also is anthropological, right it is. 90 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:22.839 And I use a lot of mixed methods research in 91 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:26.120 my work. Increasingly I'm using a lot of analytics dashboards 92 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:30.399 on social platforms. But I have done participant observation, I 93 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.639 have done a quantitative research. I have done survey design 94 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:37.560 and focus groups and all sorts of other methods that 95 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.560 researchers would use in the field, and a lot of 96 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.519 it is qualitative interpretation and very anthropological. 97 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:49.319 Are you a fan of any particular thing that you 98 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:51.319 feel like really has grasped your heart? 99 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:52.279 Yes? 100 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:53.199 Okay? 101 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.879 And my origin story of panthropology dates back to age 102 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:02.360 thirteen with a research project in middle school, so there's 103 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.439 a long history there as far as the professional interest 104 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.120 is concerned. But my current fandoms are a little sad 105 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.439 right now, as are many people's fandoms because I'm a 106 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:19.360 fan of Disney theme parks, Hugh, and so they're a 107 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:24.120 little sad right now, but that's okay. It needs to 108 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.920 be in order to be safe. Increasingly, I'm fans of 109 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.319 fewer things just because of the nature of the experience 110 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.720 of being a fan and how tied it is into identity. 111 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.279 So I like to say I'm a fan of fans, 112 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:40.800 and my two biggest fandoms are Disney theme parks and 113 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:46.279 nerd Fightia, which is the fandom centered around the Internet 114 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.879 properties of John and Hank Green, especially the blog brothers. 115 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.600 Hank and John Green, if you don't know of them, 116 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.600 have built a bit of a media empire after starting 117 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.160 a log channel together in two thousand and seven, and 118 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.000 they now have several channels under their umbrella, like Hank's 119 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.959 SI Show. They're also both prolific writers. John is the 120 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.519 author of The Fault in Our Stars. They have many 121 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:11.959 titles between them and the fundraise for their charity, which 122 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.680 is called The Foundation to Decrease World Suck, and they 123 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.399 are essentially trying to make the Internet closer to the 124 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:21.720 happiest place on Earth. Oh along those lines. Have you 125 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:22.720 ever Disney bounded? 126 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.399 I have Disney bounded, and I've also done cosplay, And 127 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:33.319 one of my favorite personal fan memories is several years back, 128 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.240 I did a costume of the tightrope walker from the 129 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:40.480 Haunted Mansion ride Oh My God and Bob and went 130 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:43.160 during Halloween, which is one of the only times where 131 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.680 when you get the extra ticket, adults can wear costumes 132 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.800 in the park, And so I got to wear the 133 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:50.639 costume in front of the Haunted Mansion and I have 134 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:52.199 some great photos from that. 135 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.000 This tightrope Walker, I looked it up, is in a 136 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.079 petticoated dress and holds a parasol and when the elevator 137 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.839 drops sorry spoiler alert for the Haunted Mansion, you see 138 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.839 that she's balanced on a rope right above the gaping 139 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.399 jaws of a gator. What a costume. 140 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:11.920 I'm not a professional cosplayer by any means, or a 141 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:14.639 professional Disney bounder, but yes I have. I have done 142 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:15.079 those things. 143 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:17.439 Would you ever want any of your ashes scattered in 144 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.279 the Haunted Mansion, even knowing that someone would just vacuum 145 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:21.319 it up at the end of the day. 146 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:23.360 No, because I know that people vacuum it up at 147 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:23.959 the end of the day. 148 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.040 They know that though at this point they know that 149 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.759 maybe there might be an iota of them left right, Yeah, okay. 150 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.399 Try and do this a non zero amount. And one 151 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.159 of the most interesting things about the Haunted Mansion is 152 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.480 their air filtration system is so good that they have 153 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:47.679 to keep faking the like dust. It's genuinely a really 154 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:48.840 great air filtration system. 155 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.600 Oh my god. Okay, so you're thirteen years old. When 156 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.720 I was thirteen, like digital media did not exist. We had, 157 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:59.799 you know, laser discs or something. But at thirteen, what 158 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:01.200 was your middle school project? 159 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:04.799 So I went to a middle school in Los Angeles 160 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:08.519 and we had a project called the Eye Search, which 161 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:12.840 was designed to teach us about research methodologies. M It 162 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.000 was a year long project where we got to choose 163 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:20.480 our topic and then proceed to research it with a 164 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.360 list of methodologies we had to do with like minimum 165 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.960 levels of kinds of sources and do primary research and 166 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:32.120 secondary research. And at the time, the first three Harry 167 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.039 Potter books had come out, and mind you, I was 168 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.200 not doing a research project on Harry Potter. I was 169 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:42.039 doing a research project on Harry Potter fandom. 170 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:48.320 Some person could explode, ah and I could sense that 171 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.759 there was a there there because of the midnight book 172 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.480 parties that were starting to happen. 173 00:09:53.240 --> 00:10:00.000 At bookstores and the way it was sweeping through students 174 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.360 at the school. And so my twelve year old, thirteen 175 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:09.279 year old self went the route of, well, clearly, we 176 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:14.519 like this because it taps into archetypal characters and personality types, 177 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:18.360 which is like the angle I went form HM as 178 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.120 thirteen year old me, which as thirty something year old me, 179 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:27.919 I was not super far off nice because of the 180 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:30.600 way that archetypal characters cater to our our abilities to 181 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.200 project our identities into them. It turns out the fandom 182 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:36.759 is very identity based. But that's where it started. I 183 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:39.360 knew there was a there there. I read the only 184 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:44.320 two nonfiction full length books about Harry Potter at the time. 185 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.159 One was a guidebook to all of the like Wickan 186 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:53.320 and Witchcraft references, and the other was how to teach 187 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:55.960 It in school's source book for English teachers. 188 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.399 Ah, you know, we did a Potterology episode about by 189 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.639 chemist in Nebraska who uses Potter spells to talk about 190 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.519 high level chemistry, which is really cool. 191 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:07.440 That is really cool. 192 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.480 Yeah, she's very passionate it side note I have since 193 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.480 added a disclaimer on that episode's show notes that says, 194 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.600 since this episode was first released, JK. Rowling has said 195 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.000 and written some deeply transphobic sentiments, and for this Ali 196 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.440 no longer stands nor supports her. So in listening to 197 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.519 this episode, let's marvel at theologists herself and her love 198 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.240 of chemistry, and remember that feminism is intersectional, and trans 199 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:33.480 women are women, and trans folks are welcome and beloved 200 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.720 in the ologies universe. Okay, let's talk about fictitious people. 201 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.159 When you talk about archetypal characters, is there some basis 202 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:47.039 or is there some correlation between like what personality psychologists find, 203 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:51.720 like you know and E and j R. 204 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.919 Like yeah, yeah, Myers Briggs type yes, thank you. So 205 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.840 in I haven't gone the psychological route, but I had 206 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:03.440 the opportunity to work on an amazing study in twenty 207 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:09.279 sixteen under the guidance of a business anthropologist named Susan Kresnica. 208 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:13.840 She's amazing and a genius, and we did a year 209 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:18.000 long study of fans and fandom about what the experience 210 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.039 of being a fan is at its most essential levels 211 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:25.120 and how being fans differ depending on what you're a 212 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:29.559 fan of. And the framework we used for that was 213 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.519 moral foundations theory, the framework established by Jonathan Height in 214 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:34.720 his book The Righteous Mind. 215 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.840 For a deeper dive a link that Jonathan Hyde book 216 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.840 The Righteous Mind why good people are divided by politics 217 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.559 and religion. But as for right now, I will just 218 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:48.720 scream yes, why why why? Why? Though into the sky 219 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:54.600 and Meredith explains and so fandoms do differ based on 220 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.240 the way they perceive morality in the world. 221 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:01.039 Fandom is a proxy for or our identities. So where 222 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:04.519 do archetypal characters fit in our abilities to see ourselves 223 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:09.480 reflected or our future selves reflected? Because aspects of identity 224 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.080 are different depending on what people are fanus of. So 225 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.879 like sports fandom has a very interesting sense of placemaking 226 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:19.639 that media fandom and music fandom does not necessarily have. 227 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.600 And what is placemaking exactly. 228 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:29.960 It's ties to space. So with sports fans, often they 229 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.519 are fans because they were born into it based on 230 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:38.080 where they grew up. Yeah, I'm saying they because I'm 231 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:42.600 not specifically a sports fan, but I totally understand it 232 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.480 because it's where you grew up. Oftentimes people are born 233 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:48.320 into it, and it's a family tradition, which case, being 234 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.399 a fan of a team from home helps contribute to 235 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.720 a sense of home. We've also seen in some of 236 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.960 the research that we did that fans sports fans will 237 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.519 also adopt new teams if they're moving to new homes 238 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.639 as a way to feel more at home in the 239 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.399 new place they're in and connect with other people who 240 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:09.279 are in that new place. 241 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.440 Have you ever done any studies on why sports fanatics 242 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.360 in general use the first person plural when we are 243 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.559 gonna win or they're going to win with we're at home, 244 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:23.879 we're eating nachos, we are absolutely not doing any physical exertion. 245 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.080 Why is it a wei. 246 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.440 Because it's so it's such a proxy for identity. Okay, 247 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.840 like going down the street wearing a jersey, you see 248 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.799 someone else wearing the same jersey and there's a sense 249 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:43.519 of kinship there. Same thing with like if you're on 250 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:45.919 a date or at a networking mixer or something and 251 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:51.519 someone's wearing like jewelry that's oddly specific to a very 252 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:56.039 niche thing, and you notice it's we're finding our like 253 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:02.600 minded people and expressing ourselves and the way we use fandom, 254 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.000 and this was such an interesting thing from this study 255 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:10.000 is oftentimes it's to express ourselves, but also to build 256 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:16.159 community and to create self care rituals in terms of 257 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:21.440 yeah like mood regulation and experiencing feelings in a safe 258 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:26.320 way as preparation for real world feelings, and exploring new 259 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.720 feelings as a way to get a full range of 260 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.639 human emotions. One of the frameworks we thought of in 261 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.840 the beginning that is often talked about in the fans 262 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.720 studies discourse is if fandom is a proxy for religion. 263 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:42.639 There are reasons why they're similar, there are reasons why 264 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:43.159 they're different. 265 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:47.360 Meredith says that while sports might make you feel belonging 266 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.080 to a certain set of values about right or wrong 267 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:55.559 or particular rituals, religion requires, for the most part, unwavering 268 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.000 faith and spirituality. And religion also address things like life 269 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:02.559 after death philosophies you're not gonna get from wearing a 270 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:06.639 hat shaped like cheese. My gosh, I have I have 271 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:11.840 so many questions for you. I'm so sorry interesting ask 272 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.200 and you. 273 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.279 Can edit this part out, but like I've got nothing 274 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.480 but time today, so much times you want to take 275 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.039 I am happy to chat. 276 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:20.279 That's right, my babies, this is gonna be a two 277 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.559 parter about why we love things. Okay, I'm gonna double back. 278 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:28.000 Exactly what is fandom? It's such a basic question, but like, 279 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.159 what is it? How do you define just like liking 280 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:31.200 something versus being a fan. 281 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.240 So we asked that question in the research under Susan's research. 282 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:36.440 And. 283 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:39.759 One can like something and not be a fan of it, 284 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.759 and one can identify as a fan of it. Fandom 285 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:48.039 is the portmanteau of fanatic and kingdom or dom as 286 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:53.759 the suffix of like realm of wow. Okay, And it 287 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.600 was first used to in religious contexts, and then it 288 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.120 was used in baseball, and now it's used mostly in media. 289 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:04.640 And so fandom has a few different definitions. There's fandom 290 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.839 with a capital F when you're saying, like the fandom, 291 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.559 which is generally in reference to a group of media 292 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.839 fans who express a certain set of behaviors that largely 293 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:22.079 revolve around transformative works and cultures and fan labor and creativity. 294 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.279 This is when you think of like fan fiction and 295 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.720 shipping and that sort of thing is associated with the fandom, 296 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.519 which can be ip specific or in general based on 297 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.039 these practices. But then you have fandom which can be 298 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:39.119 a proxy for the experience of being a fan, because 299 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.119 that's a mouthful or any community of fans. So like, 300 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.279 not all sports fans will say they're part of a fandom. Yeah, 301 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.759 they'll say they're a fan of this thing, right, whereas 302 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:54.400 fandom is more commonly used in those spaces of transformative 303 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:55.880 works and cultures like. 304 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.680 Books and movie franchises. Okay, that makes sense. And then 305 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:04.200 when it comes again to those like archetypes and identities, 306 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:09.640 do you find that there are certain archetypes that keep 307 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.799 getting repeated, Like I remember, do you remember the show 308 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:14.400 Gilligan's Island. Have you ever heard this theory? 309 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:15.240 No? 310 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:16.440 Please tell me the theory. 311 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:20.400 The theory that each of the seven people on Gilligan's 312 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:25.319 Island represents a sin from the Bible, from sloth to 313 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.319 to greed. I'm going to run through these really fast, 314 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:36.960 Coveting mister Howell Anger, Missus Howell, Lust, Ginger, Gluttony, the Skipper, Envy, 315 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.880 Mary Anne, Sloth, Gilligan, and Pride the Professor. Pride is 316 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.119 also vanity, which I didn't know, but that's what a 317 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.240 size are for. So it's like they all represent a 318 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.799 sin and they're in purgatory. I don't know if you 319 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:51.720 remember that's. 320 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.680 A great theory following so far. 321 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.839 But you know, are there certain kind of stamps of 322 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:03.759 people that when people are creating, you know, fictional works, 323 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.680 they know this is a part of our personality that 324 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.640 is going to really identify with this character. Like do 325 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.240 we identify with all the characters because of different facets 326 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.079 within ourselves, or do typically people find a character that 327 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.880 they say, I'm I'm a Carriac solo, Yeah, I'm a 328 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:22.799 carry exactly. 329 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.279 Yeah, it's so personal. It's so personal because it's how 330 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:30.599 someone sees themselves. Right now, my husband and I are 331 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:32.880 watching Frasier for the first time. 332 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:37.319 As good evening, Dr Crane, Doctor Sterna. 333 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.839 It's nice to see you again, and everyone there is 334 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:47.839 so relatable to us. But I can also understand how 335 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.759 that's not the case for a lot of people, and 336 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.960 so it really depends on sense of self and how 337 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.960 people conceive of themselves and how their identities change over 338 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:04.680 time and their value systems change over time. For example, 339 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.559 like I am a Hermione, but also I'm not a 340 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:10.920 Gryffindor they're seeing yourself in characters. But then there's also 341 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.119 the world building and the negative space to play around in. 342 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.799 And one of the things that we love about Frasier 343 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.359 right now is how much negative space there is and 344 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:24.680 so in. In the history of fan studies, one of 345 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.319 the typical examples of more is not always better, Sometimes 346 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:34.640 more is just more is Midichlorians in Star Wars. It's 347 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:35.519 the Prequels. 348 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.240 Midchlorians are a microscopic life form that resides, but then 349 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.359 all living sounds. 350 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.200 They live inside me, inside yourselves. 351 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:49.440 Yes, and we are symbions with them, symbians life forms 352 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:54.799 living together for mutual advantage. Without the Medichlorians, life cannot 353 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.079 exist and be bit of no knowledge of the force. 354 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.119 They continually speak to us, telling us the. 355 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:02.200 Will of the force. 356 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.039 So from what I gather, your Medicchlorians are kind of 357 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.720 like your microbiome, but instead of good poops and more serotonin, 358 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.839 you can like perform telekinesis. Now you can check out 359 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.119 the Microbiology episode to learn how your gut party works 360 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.880 on Earth if you were not a Jedi. Night and 361 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.200 Jarrett would also like to add that Medicchlorians sounds too 362 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.039 much like mitochondria, and he thinks it's too on the nose, 363 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.440 like come on, Richer. 364 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.279 I think, thank you cool people did not want to 365 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.000 know how the Force worked. We did not need this information. 366 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.240 This was too much information because it squeezed out room 367 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.480 for imagination. Mm hmmm, Like it squeezed all of the 368 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.880 imagination out of it. We did not need a canonical 369 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:53.240 explanation of like why the force exists because our conceptions 370 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.559 of it and thoughts around it. We're doing so much 371 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.559 of a service two fans that the explanation was one 372 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:05.319 worse than what we would think of, and two filling 373 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:10.440 in this vital negative space where fans can project and imagine. 374 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.640 Ah, got it, That makes so much sense. And so 375 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.400 Fraser has a lot of negative space. 376 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.000 It has a lot of negative space. It's a show 377 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.000 with like like we're I don't know halfway through season 378 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.799 one and one of the characters' wives is referenced and 379 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.839 we never meet her and we don't see her, like 380 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.799 she's just like talked about while she's not in the room. 381 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.680 And there's a lot of negative space there to imagine 382 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.400 and play. And the same is true. This is why 383 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.319 a lot of like multiverse time travel genre fair. Also, 384 00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:47.720 it's one of the reasons why I think that that 385 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.519 pulls so much fandom is because when you have that, 386 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.359 when you have a very nebulous metaphor for others and outsiders, 387 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:02.960 as like aliens tend to be, there's infinite possibilities right 388 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:03.599 to play. 389 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:08.240 Is that why maybe sci fi and you know, Star Trek, 390 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:13.440 Star Wars, Rick and Morty has maybe a more engaged 391 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:17.640 or zealous fandom because it lets their mind run around 392 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:18.720 within the universe. 393 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:29.319 Yes, and also infrastructure, So Star Wars is, Star Wars 394 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.880 and Star Trek have two different kinds of infrastructure built 395 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:38.599 around them, and fan scholars will all cite a book 396 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.079 called Enterprising Women about the history of female Star Trek 397 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:43.960 fans right and the role of that. 398 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.720 This was the nineteen ninety two publication Enterprising Women, Television 399 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.960 Fandom and the Creation of Popular Myth by Camille Bacon Smith, 400 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.039 who examined how fan fiction written by women was often 401 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:02.079