WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:04.480 Welcome to Wine Soundtrack USA. Listen to the passion with 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:08.000 which producers narrate their winery and their world. In thirty 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:12.039 answers discover their stories, personalities, and passions. 4 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.800 Hello, friends and listeners of Wine Soundtrack. This is Alison 5 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:20.320 Levine and today I am in the Adelaide district Impasseroblis 6 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:25.640 with Kevin Usla. Haha, I said it correctly of Kukola. 7 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:30.800 How am I doing? Perfect? Well? Great? These are finished names, 8 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.759 so you know it's a little challenging, but not all 9 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:37.679 of them, not all, but Kevin, welcome to Wine's Soundtrack 10 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:40.920 and tell us a little bit about Kukola and where 11 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:41.200 we are. 12 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:43.840 Yeah, so we're in the Adelaide district, one of the 13 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:48.479 eleven sub appellations in passer Robolis. We are otherwise kind 14 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:49.880 of we're in the area that's kind of known as 15 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:54.079 the far out wineries. Were the furthest northwest corner and 16 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.880 the only winer that goes past us, I believe, if 17 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.960 I'm not mistake. Oh actually technical leaders too, which to boast, 18 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.439 but justin most notably, uh there there are another two 19 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:05.359 and a half miles west of us, so we're we're 20 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.719 pretty far west and north as in terms of the 21 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.760 overall pass Appalachian and anyway, what do you wanting to 22 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:13.200 tell you about? 23 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.159 Cuckola? Just kind of the the bullet points. 24 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:17.680 The bullet points, give me, give me up quick, like 25 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:19.400 what is the name Kukola? 26 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.000 Cukola is Finish. My family's from Finland. 27 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:26.719 It's my first language, and cucula and Finishes actually said goulapula. 28 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:27.920 There you go. 29 00:01:28.120 --> 00:01:29.879 So cucula means the high place. So in Finish, I 30 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.319 would say, you know, la luck, my house is on 31 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:33.000 a high place. 32 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:34.159 And if you when you. 33 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.000 Came in, if you saw the house up high, that's 34 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:38.439 kind of you know, we vastly for about five years, 35 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:40.920 about five months excuse me about what we were going 36 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.400 to call as an After going back and forth with 37 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.079 a whole bunch of things, one day I asked my 38 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.239 mom because I just was wasn't getting anywhere, and so 39 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.120 she asked what I was looking for, and I kind 40 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.519 of told her, well, you know, I'm you know, I 41 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.319 was thinking, mecky, is that as a high as a mountain? 42 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:55.000 And I gave her some other alters. She said, well 43 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.359 about gougula. And I had never even interested enough. I 44 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.519 had never heard the word and it just resonated im 45 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:01.599 meed to because it such a fun word, cucula for 46 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.719 Americas or whatever. But it's a fun word and it 47 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.879 says a lot about how steep and high these properties 48 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.120 are here. So anyway, we're roon centric organic right farmers. 49 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.360 What we do one hundred percent of state grown. My 50 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.719 first love of wines was Southern ron wines when I 51 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:14.479 was in my twenties. 52 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:16.159 You're jumping ahead of me there. 53 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.400 Oh, okay, stopped the bullet points. 54 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.759 But yeah, I'm the other wine maker Cucola, and we're 55 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:23.840 very focused on Rohan. 56 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.199 Centric blendz And how many acres do you have here? 57 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:32.840 So the property here is eighty acres, and yet I 58 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:36.360 farmed two properties. The other is seventy two acres between 59 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.520 the two. We've gone through some huge chases because of 60 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.039 red blotch, but we had originally planted fifty acres across 61 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.240 of vines across the two properties. We've pretty well torn 62 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.080 we've torn everything out and we've replanted, and at this 63 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.280 point we're only at forty two. We might stop there. 64 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.080 So we're farming forty two acres across two properties. I 65 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.039 also farm olives and walnuts on this property. 66 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:55.439 As well. 67 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:59.039 Wow, and you said that you're doing Roon varieties, although 68 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.080 I know you also do little Cabernet, so there's some 69 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:05.039 Bordeaux varieties in there too. And how many cases do 70 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:05.599 you produce? 71 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:08.159 Well, that's kind of a moving number. We were pushing 72 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:10.759 close to three thousand cases a year or two ago. 73 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.039 We are pulling back. The markets are soft, so I'm 74 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:14.960 not quite sure what that number is. It's going to 75 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.599 be in the two thousand plus zone. The vineage you're 76 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:20.879 having today is close to three thousand cases. 77 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.800 It's a little fluctuation. And is your wine exclusively direct consumer? 78 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.000 Are you in any markets? I hope you're in Finland. 79 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:30.840 It is so funny you say that we are in 80 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:32.199 Finland all the Finish market. 81 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:34.400 If you think the US market is bad right now, 82 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.120 the Finish market is not good. Excuse the phone, I'm sorry. 83 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:41.800 I wish I could disconnect that. So we are in Finnish. 84 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.479 I'm in Finland. I'm a really proud fin And of 85 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:45.919 course I had to have my wines that Finland had 86 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.759 an opportunity five six years ago to have the wines there. 87 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:50.479 That is our early place for distribution. 88 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.000 We are one hundred percent direct to consumer in the 89 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:53.479 United States heavily club driven. 90 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:54.240 Wow. 91 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.280 Okay, now I'm going to ask you what was your 92 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:59.680 first memory relevant to wine. 93 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.159 Oh gosh, that's a tough one. 94 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.599 I mean, I'm sixty four years old, so my first 95 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.039 memory relative wine would have probably been my in my teens, 96 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.879 you know, something like any what is it any Green Springs? 97 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.919 Any bunny? Oh gosh, I don't know. 98 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.920 You know, those those old kind of jug wines that 99 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:20.439 my parents would have had their kitchen. That was my 100 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:25.199 first memory of So there's two others real quickly, I 101 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:27.279 think on the first time I ever was I was 102 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:28.279 probably not carted. 103 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:29.000 It was illegal. 104 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.160 I had ordered a bottle of Sebastiani Cabernet Sauvignel at 105 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:32.959 a restaurant, trying. 106 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.480 To impress a girl I was dating. I knew nothing about. 107 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:37.839 Wine before you were twenty one, probably I think it 108 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:39.160 was before I was twenty one. 109 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:41.519 Somehow I got it, it happened. 110 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:45.439 But my first seminal experience interually enough was bo Castell 111 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:46.560 and the chapter enough to pop. 112 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.639 So yes, my next question, as you've sort of jumped 113 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.480 ahead on, is what is that first you know, aha 114 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.560 moment wine? Was it that bo Hostelle? Or is there 115 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.319 another memory that kind of I'm sure you've had a few, 116 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:02.800 because obviously you just then buy a winery and start 117 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:04.639 a winery. But what was one of those wines that 118 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:06.399 was kind of an aha moment for you? And what 119 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:07.279 was it in why? 120 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.519 It's hard to say what wine, but clearly so what 121 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.759 happened was I started getting really curious about wines, and 122 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:19.600 I got curious about wines really because of other interest hobbies, 123 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:23.360 you know, real quickly. I was a pretty serious cyclist 124 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.120 and runner for many years, and when I met. 125 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.399 My wife Paula, I. 126 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.680 Was really seriously into running and biking to the point 127 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.519 that it really dominated a lot of my time. And 128 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:35.120 it's always trying to figure out how to wait corporate 129 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.639 my wife into this because I didn't. 130 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:37.079 Want to give that up. 131 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:40.639 And so this kind of evolved in over time into 132 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:45.800 bike riding and specifically doing bike tours, which kind of 133 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.680 evolved to wine bike tours. 134 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:49.639 So this is how you got hurt a bike ride. 135 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.199 I got hurt of bike ride with another incentive, you know, 136 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:54.680 kind of a resorting way to bike ride instead of 137 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.319 kind of me doing centuries or more, which she had 138 00:05:57.399 --> 00:05:58.120 zero interest in. 139 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.959 And so what happened was the Santa Neez Valley. 140 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:04.560 Was probably kind of my first real serious fory into 141 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.040 consuming wines and getting curious about wines. And as you know, 142 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.560 although it's very diversified there, there's a lot of ran 143 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:15.519 either varietals. Probably back then it was more broidely driven, 144 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:19.000 not so much blend driven. So that was probably my 145 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.319 first foy into wines. But what really I think was 146 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:26.040 the catalyst that got me going was I we are 147 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.120 We lived in Topanga Canyon, which is the Santa Monica 148 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:32.519 Mountains in Los Angeles. Uh and uh there was an 149 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.680 amazing wine shop, it's still an amazing wine shop called 150 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.759 the Wilden Hills Wine Company on Ventura near Folbrook in 151 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:39.279 the valley. 152 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.959 And somehow I had fallen into going there. 153 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:44.800 I guess I was looking for good wine shops and 154 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.519 I fell upon this amazing wine shop. Their knowledge there 155 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:49.800 was and probably to this day is really amazing. They 156 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.680 got an amazing staff. And so I'm not I'm not 157 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.920 a shy guy who's asking all kinds of questions that 158 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:57.959 I got wine spectator, and I would like circle all 159 00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:59.519 the wines that was curious about it to go in. 160 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.639 There's a here he goes with his winespecnears definitely, and 161 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.319 so somehow, I guess what I was asking questions about 162 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.079 kind of moved to rones as a suggestion, and so 163 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.480 I started kind of focusing on Roans, and you know, 164 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.120 I don't know, you know, there might have been things 165 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:18.079 like Rias or via Telegraph or certainly book Castell or 166 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.720 you know, it's it's too long ago to remember anymore. 167 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:23.959 That's pushing certainly thirty five to forty. 168 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:29.000 Years ago, but I remember bok Castell maybe over time 169 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.920 kind of really resonating with me, and I ultimately had 170 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.560 an amazing experience in nineteen ninety five there where I 171 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:38.160 tasted with one of the patriarchs. By chance, I had 172 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.439 knocked on their door and you're not supposed to do that, 173 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:41.879 and they. 174 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:43.040 Like they didn't get you. 175 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.000 Actually had to come back a couple of days later, 176 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.319 and we ended up having this amazing tasting experience, and 177 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:50.600 so that really we actually tasted with Rias as well 178 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:52.319 at the same time, View Telegraph and a few others 179 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:54.519 I forget, but that was kind of like, really when 180 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.560 I started get I guess I was sucked at the vortex. 181 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:04.560 Yeah, the vortex happens, so I'm curious. Do you you 182 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.839 know you make a lot of blends. In fact, you 183 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:10.319 make almost exclusively blends, Roane blends. Do you think there's 184 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:12.639 a such thing as a perfect variety? 185 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.319 No? No, No, I mean, look at I suppose when 186 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.839 I first fell in love with wines. Well, if I 187 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.000 told you I loved roans and brons or essentially blended wines, right, 188 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.920 unless you're a Northern wine is one hundred percent or 189 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.279 damn close to one hundred percent sarraw. So yeah, I 190 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:34.240 mean I've had amazing examples of Surrahs that I've had 191 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:37.600 in the past, and grenache, you know, Spanish got nachas 192 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.600 and things like that that I just completely love. 193 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.320 But I am a huge foody. My wife is a 194 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:44.039 huge food ye. 195 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.159 And so for us, I think what makes food so 196 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:51.360 amazing is the ingredients, the components that go into it, 197 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:53.879 and that I think, by extension, the same thing happens 198 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:58.679 with wine. Each varietal brings a certain mouth feel, aromatic 199 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.320 way whatever they deliver differently on the palette. And so 200 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:05.960 I think blending is really kind of creating, in my mind, 201 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:07.080 more complex wines. 202 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:08.960 So if we were to come to your home up 203 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:10.799 the hill from your tasting room. If we were to 204 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.200 walk in there, what wines would we find in there? 205 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.279 Is it a lot of the cucula wines? Do you 206 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.039 drink a lot of local wines? International? Is it all 207 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.159 blends all of above? 208 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:22.799 Yeah, I mean, looking you can certainly have you know, 209 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:26.399 got to have a healthy dose and cucula allocation in 210 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:31.240 my cellar. But yeah, I have a pretty big representation 211 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.639 of Central Coast wines, a pretty big representation. 212 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:34.200 In fact, I have. 213 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:38.360 One whole wall of California wines, including cukola. 214 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.320 Mostly roane producers or other varieties. 215 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:42.200 Not necessarily. 216 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.720 I mean, you know, clearly there's you know, I'm getting 217 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.960 too many names here, but you know, certainly all of 218 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.720 the certainly a lot of the names that we know 219 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.240 here in Paso, in the Sanatas area, but you know, 220 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.240 up to Oregon and Washington, certainly a bias to the rhones. 221 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.200 But you know, a good friend of mine here is 222 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.080 a project called Sick Smile Bridge, and they are all 223 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:04.399 about Bordeaux. His name is Jim Moroni, by the way, 224 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.960 And you know, so I have a healthy amount of 225 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:11.879 six Mile Bridge as an example. Pinos pinos a talisman, 226 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:13.919 a good good friend and an amazing white maker up 227 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.039 in northern California, Sonoma area, Scott Rich. So I have 228 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:21.679 a lot of pinos. But yeah, so there's some varietal 229 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:25.039 specific But if you took inventory of all the wines 230 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:28.240 in my cellar, I suspect you'll probably find I don't know, 231 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:29.799 seventy eighty percent of the murblness. 232 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:35.159 Is there anything you opened up recently that drank really well? 233 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:36.000 Oh my gosh. 234 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.480 Well, okay, I had some friends over a fellow wine 235 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.639 maker for dinner a few nights ago, and we had 236 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.720 a Chateau Quinaut from Bordeaux two thousand and three. It's 237 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:51.360 a San Anio wine, and that was really. 238 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:54.799 An amazing experience. I'm really big on older vintage wines, 239 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:57.879 and so I really love to buy wines and put 240 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.440 them away for a whole number of years. So that 241 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:03.039 was really cool. Gosh, I don't know. I have a 242 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.080 bottle of wine every night, so it kind of blurs 243 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:05.720 after a while. 244 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:08.559 Hard to keep up, but it's nice when you have 245 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:11.440 a selection, and if you're keeping older wines, you know, 246 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.919 you just go down there and see what you think 247 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.440 might be ready to drink. Now, So I'm curious you 248 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.320 were saying that when you went into Woodland Hills Wine 249 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.600 Company to buy wines, you walked in with your wine 250 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:26.279 spectator circling them. I'm going to guess that you have anymore. No, no, 251 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.480 now you have a palette. I get that, But I'm 252 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:30.840 curious because at that time, I'm sure what you were 253 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.840 circling were things that got some pretty good scores. So 254 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.519 as a winemaker, now where do you do you what 255 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:39.960 is your opinion on wine critics and scores. I mean, 256 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.799 obviously that was boiling water. Well, I mean it was 257 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:47.120 clearly a very important thing as a consumer, and I 258 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.679 see the value. And look where you are today. Maybe 259 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.399 it's a dangerous road to go down, but well, look. 260 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:57.120 At I submit to most of the wine critics, and 261 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:01.080 I think that anybody who's in the business, the end 262 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.600 of the business that I'm in, which is direct consumer 263 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:09.480 uh really kind of wines and distinction, we do submit 264 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:15.759 and and rely on, you know, critics treating us favorably, 265 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.200 and to a large degree, I get a lot of 266 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:25.120 pretty good recognition from them. I will say that you know, 267 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.440 this is this is this is where it gets ripe 268 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.720 with danger certain wine critics and especially historically, and it's 269 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.679 sort of evolving. I think today have different palettes, but 270 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:36.840 there's been kind of a defined palette, the Robert Parker 271 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:40.440 palette as an example, kind of big extracted wines. And 272 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:42.840 don't get me wrong, I love those wines. I have 273 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.120 those wines in my cellar. But I'm all about finesse 274 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:49.960 and elegance. I'm kind of more into the little lower alcohol. 275 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:57.039 I'm just non interventionous, non indivenduous wines. Complexity, high acid, 276 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:01.559 how does it complement food? And so a lot of times, 277 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:04.720 although those wines might do well with critics, they don't 278 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.080 necessarily do as well as I think that they should. 279 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.919 And I do see again that that's evolving, and I 280 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.679 think I certainly see it with respect of how we're 281 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:18.360 being treated about wines. So, you know, you kind of 282 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.960 have to play the game, and I think that over 283 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.600 time that conversation of balls. 284 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:26.919 Yeah, and obviously, like you said, you're not really you're 285 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.840 not driven by scores anymore in your buying. So you know, 286 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.240 you find your place and now you have the confidence 287 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.080 and you know what you like and you know how 288 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.279 to find it. So talking about what you like as 289 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.559 a consumer, you have a vast selection of wines in 290 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:46.919 your cellar. As you've described, you make red wines exclusively. 291 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:49.000 I know you said you had a white wine, but 292 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.399 currently are only making red wine as a wine drinker, 293 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:53.679 red whieter rose. 294 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:54.960 All of the above. 295 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.960 Yeah again, Look, if you're really into food and wine 296 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.200 with food, it has to be all of the above. 297 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:03.919 And it isn't that I don't have Volley, my only 298 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.120 white that I haven't made in a few years in 299 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:06.759 my cellar. 300 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:09.759 I do have other whites in the cellar. 301 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:12.360 And you know that runs the gamuts from you know, 302 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:13.759 kind of German reeslings to. 303 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:16.240 You know. 304 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:21.320 Whatever, you know, chardenay typically French chardonnaise or so when your. 305 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.679 Bonks or you know, it's all over the map. 306 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.240 A nice equel opportunist. What about if you had to 307 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:28.399 choose still or sparkling. 308 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:30.600 I'm a big still guy. 309 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.320 I have I have a fair amount of sparkling in 310 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.120 the cellar, you know, I just I don't know, I 311 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.759 just we just don't pull out as much sparkling as 312 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:40.279 we used to. 313 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.279 I don't know why, it just has happened that way. 314 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.559 I'm really curious to go into your cellar, and that 315 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:49.440 sounds like a very vast, exciting place to wander through. 316 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.159 It's not too bad. It's a pretty good place. I 317 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:53.039 like hanging out there. 318 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.080 So you said that you like to you know, you 319 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.840 and your wife like to cook. That you you know, 320 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.039 like to pair wine with food. So how do you 321 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.960 approach pairing wine and food? Do you follow rules? Are 322 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.840 there rules you can share, guidelines that you use, or 323 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:12.240 do you just sort of I got that two thousand 324 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:14.320 and three CENTI milion, and I'm ready to drink it, 325 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:15.919 so let's just open it with whatever. 326 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:21.000 I definitely don't do that, although it's it's funny that 327 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.279 saandamon I did. 328 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.240 In fact, it was a bit of. 329 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.759 A violation of what I would have typically paired with 330 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:27.159 the meal. 331 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.720 Although that's aren't really fair. 332 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.639 So our guests are vegetarians, and my wife and I 333 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.039 have been leading vegetarian for a while now, We're not 334 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:35.799 one hundred percent. 335 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:38.600 I love meat. I'm a carnivore, but so. 336 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:43.159 So she's got a nice repertoire of dinners that she 337 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.519 prepares that are vegetarians. So she did it for our guests, 338 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.600 and it was a nook. I can't remember what's with 339 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:49.039 the nook. 340 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:51.039 It's funny. 341 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.080 All of a sudden, I'm zoning, But she did this 342 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:59.200 new thing that's a portobello mushroom with spinach and feta 343 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.960 cheese and some other things in there, and it was 344 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.799 just it's really beautiful, really savory. So you know, the 345 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.480 mushroom component to me works with a Bordeaux certainly, but 346 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.360 probably more a Senteniome because it's softer. So I wouldn't, 347 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.919 you know, do something that would be left bank. I'd 348 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.919 probably typically do something that's more right bank with something 349 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.200 like that. 350 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.200 So if I was going to back up a little 351 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.080 because first, tell me what are the rules you fought, 352 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.360 because it sounds like you played a little bit with that. 353 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.000 So maybe you don't always follow rules because surprises can happen. 354 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:32.919 Well, that's right, you know. 355 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.240 Yeah. 356 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:38.039 I mean, look, there's always kind of standard rules, especially 357 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:39.519 when you're in the taste and where you have you know, 358 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:41.840 club members that are asking you, got I'm doing this tonight, Kevin, 359 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:42.960 what would you do with it? 360 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:44.799 And so there's kind of the standard rules. You know, 361 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.559 our lighter wines. 362 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.639 Will typically be I'll tell people poor chicken, excuse me, 363 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:51.960 fish chicken, the pork if we're kind of talking kind 364 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.200 of a meat driven meal. And as we go up 365 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.159 the ladder, with our wines, you know, you'll typically kind 366 00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:58.519 of go you know, we got our pott to do, 367 00:16:58.720 --> 00:16:59.080 which is. 368 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.080 A grenache space with serraw wine. 369 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.799 It'll tend to be maybe more red sauce, maybe eggplant 370 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:10.039 parmesan to maybe even chicken with like a like a 371 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:14.119 preshudo wrap or up to pork pork tenderlines. By the way, 372 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.400 I just had some left up with pork tend to 373 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.000 wins that my wife made last night for lunch. That 374 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:18.960 would be awesome with. 375 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.000 That, And so you might kind of go into the beef. 376 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:23.359 But then as you kind of move up, you know, 377 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:25.680 Serrah based will tend to want to be maybe more game. 378 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279 It'll be one to be a little bit more beef 379 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.599 because it's Syrah with granachi more men, but typically have 380 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:32.880 Surrah and as we kind of go up, you know, 381 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:34.920 I have a cap based blend as you mentioned, actually 382 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.759 two of them, one heavy and the other I have 383 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:39.720 a petite serrab blend. So we'll kind of get more 384 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.119 into the kind of the game the beef, the fattier 385 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:46.160 beef or you know, maybe you know, mushroom based kinds 386 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:46.680 of meal. 387 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:50.000 Something, right, So you're kind of going from lighter style 388 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:53.519 wines to lighter style of foods and it's more in 389 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:55.000 weight that you're. 390 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.000 Matching, yes, but it could also be lighter wise, but 391 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.119 it's really a function of what's the sauces or what 392 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:05.640 is that it's accompanying that, But it's I you know, 393 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.039 we all have this kind of vocabulary in our brain 394 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:09.920 about what you pair. 395 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:11.880 With what, and a lot of it is forty years 396 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.559 of consumption of wine. It's just kind of instinctive practice practice. Yeah, 397 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:17.440 people ask me how do you learn all this? As well? 398 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:22.640 I drink a lot. 399 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.000 So but there are you know, I do break the rules, 400 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:26.519 like god, you know, this could work, you know, like 401 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:28.480