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Speaker 1: My family thinks I'm crazy. Podcast where I your host,

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trying to give you.

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Speaker 2: Some tips and how you can explain all this weird

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and wild, crazy conspiracy stuff to the people you love most,

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because that's what I've been trying to do for the

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past ten years.

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Speaker 3: With no success.

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Speaker 4: I've been telling everybody, but every time I do, my family.

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Speaker 5: Thinks I'm crazy.

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Speaker 6: Are both aliens and reading in the water the last guys, Dailey.

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Speaker 3: When I talk them about these things, things I'm.

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Speaker 6: Writing and if there's been anyways, not anythings are crazy.

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Speaker 5: What they don't want to listen to.

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Speaker 1: No, they don't want to listen.

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Speaker 2: They don't want to hear it.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, oh here we go, mark off again

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with yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 6: So you know, that's the.

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Speaker 7: Thing about podcast is when you're on the air and

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it's like therapy.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I can't talk to my family about this.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, I'll talk to you man and all our listeners.

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Speaker 7: So we're talking about today that's crazy.

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Speaker 8: Some people say that angels the highest beings right next

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to the absolute right next, but they can't go over.

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Speaker 5: The only way they can.

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Speaker 8: Go over is to fall, to become a human and

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work their way gain enlightenment.

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Speaker 5: And then they can go.

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Speaker 8: Who knows how long it'll take, but on the road

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to enlightenment things get better and better and better.

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Speaker 5: Don't you ever wonder about anything.

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Speaker 1: David Lynch? What can be said about such an enigmatic

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and prolific director that has not been said or covered

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by today's guest, whose two part series Esuteric Hollywood, with

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third installment on the Way, has combed through Lynch's work

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and is here to discuss Lynch's legacy and the symbolic

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aspects of the films. Author and researcher Jay Dyer returns

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to join me Mystic Mark here on My Family Think

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Some Crazy Podcast. Thank you for tuning in and enjoy

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this conversation with Jay Dyer.

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Speaker 5: Major Briggs. Major Briggs is there to investigate on the

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behalf of the military and the deep State. You could

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say what they think are alien manifestations, but it's actually

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the same thing as all the spiritual demonic manifestations, so

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it's not actually aliens. But there's a white lodge and

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a black lodge. And I think this one picture that

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somebody drew, I don't matter threw it, but it kind

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of encapsulates like the spirituality of the whole Twin Peaks world.

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If you can see it. You got the white lodge

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up top, you've got the black lodge at the bottom,

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and they're kind of in these diamond structures in between

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the two mountains, the two peaks, and the diamond in

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the middle is the portal, which is the in the woods.

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It's like a it looks like an oil, like an oil,

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like a naturally occurring sort of pool of oil. And

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you know, they describe it as kind of having this

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demonic kind of burning, burning oil smell when they go

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out there. But yeah, it's a portal. It's a pathway

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into the next dimension, and that's what's going on in twenty.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to my Family Think Some

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Crazy podcast, and we have a real treat for you

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this episode. Joining me again after a long hiatus. He

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was one of the first guests that I had on

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the show which made me consider this podcast off to

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a great start. I think it was in the early

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days of the show when I still had co hosts.

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Maybe even I don't know, but either way, Jay, it's

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a pleasure to have you back on the show. We're

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going to be talking a little bit about the recent

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passing of David Lynch and of course his legacy, a

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tremendous film legacy. I feel kind of funny. I have

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to admit when we first spoke, I was like, I

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don't watch movies. Well, being a full time podcaster, now

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I have a little bit more time on my hands,

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and I've spent plenty of time watching David Lynch and

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Twin Peaks actually was one of my favorite shows I

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used to watch when I was younger. But either way,

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this topic is something I'm a little bit more acquainted with.

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But before we dive into David Lynch, tell the audience

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a little bit about your next book, because you're working

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on the follow up to your what will be a trilogy,

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Esoteric Hollywood, and on Danny's Low Value Mail podcast, which

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you're so kind to join us this past week, you

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mentioned how Hollywood is dying, so I have to ask,

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do you think this will be the last Esoteric Hollywood

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book considering we have maybe only a corpse of Hollywood

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left after this decade?

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Speaker 5: You actually kind of read my mind, and thanks for

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having me back, because I was actually thinking, like a

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couple of days ago, like is this going to be

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the last of the Hollywood books. Will I will I

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do another one? I mean, I guess you could always

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go back and write about you know, old movies, which

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is kind of what we already do here on my end.

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But yeah, man, I mean I've been that was exactly

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what I was thinking. It may be the end of

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Hollywood as we know it. Everything's going to streaming and

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Apple Studios and Amazon Studios and all that, so could

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be I may, I may. What I like to do

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is kind of step away from projects and then come

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back after a long time, So you know, I might

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finish part three, come back after a few years, and maybe,

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like I was thinking, a separate book on all the

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people in Hollywood that were spies, that could be its

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own book. I don't know if anybody who's written a

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specific book on that. That's a fair question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that be fascinating. I think it's been alluded to

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in several movies, just the tight knit and I mean,

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obviously the documents have come out, but as far as

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you know new movies go, were there many new movies

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that made the cut for this third book?

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Speaker 5: Good question. I'm looking through the list of the ones

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that I included.

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Speaker 1: I can say one movie that really I don't know

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critically how well it did, but I remember a lot

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of people at least in our sphere talking about it

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was something what was it called everything Everywhere all at once,

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something to that effect, right, and that was kind of

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a Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I actually haven't seen that. I remember when that came

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out maybe last year and everybody was talking about that,

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but I actually forgot to see it. I mean, there's

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a few that are maybe films within the last say

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five years that made the cut, like Under the Silver Lake,

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that was a really yoteric film. I think that one's

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going to be in there. We got analysis, maybe a

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Babylon Berlin which is a pretty popular or term and

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TV show that'll be mentioned. And then there's going to

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be a final kind of culminating chapter called Hollywood Apocalypse,

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which is really just overall all of the Hollywood treatments

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of like anti Christ and in times and how Hollywood

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presents that. So there's a few in there that are new,

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like the Omen prequel was pretty I thought it was

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a pretty good movie, but yeah, not too many new movies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had that suspicion that that would be the case,

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and yeah, you sort of addressed that right off the bat. So, Jaye,

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it's a pleasure to have you back. Thanks for joining me.

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There's a lot we have to talk about as it

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pertains to David Lynch, but you just mentioned something that

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I want to maybe tangent to really quickly. Babylon Berlin.

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This is an interesting show. I've never heard of it,

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but it does kind of connect to what we might

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talk about today in the sense that, oh, well, at

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least for me. I read a book called The Beast

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of Berlin. I believe it was by Oh geez, he

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writes so many books about Alistair Crowley. He's like the

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foremost Alistair Crowley author. But either way, he wrote a

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book about Alistair Crowley's time in Berlin. And the more

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I've researched, the more it comes back to Berlin. Even

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Skull and Bones, I mean, they allegedly have some sort

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of mysterious brother chapter that was from Berlin. So's it's

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a strange place, and it seems like maybe the veils

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lifting on this to some sense, like do the German

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people are they kind of is this indicative that they're

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kind of interested in the occult and in a kind

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of similar way to the way America. You know, we're

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kind of taking in these ideas in a more common way.

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Speaker 5: Well, after World War Two, the OSS and the CIA

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were involved in re education projects in Germany, and the

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idea was that Germany would have to kind of be

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punished and re educated as a result of what happened

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in World War Two, and so the US actually tried

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out a lot of psychological warfare social engineering techniques to

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make sure that the Germans would not be involved in

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engineering or anything like that. They were supposed to be

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more I guess domesticated. That's covered it in depth in

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the Yell and Ratio book on the Milner Fabian Conspiracy,

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which is a really good book. So I think that

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that they kind of tried to Americanize Europe and Germany

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after World World War two, and part of that would

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be to push a lot of what the CIA has

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pushed in Germany, like experimental family situations, pedo type of

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stuff that's been literally pushed by the CIA in Germany.

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So yeah, I think they are subject to the same

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toxic degeneracy in terms of culture. Probably Crowley was there.

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I'm just going from memory. IM not an expert on

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Crowley but what you know, he wanted to join OTO,

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and so you have Theodore Royce and Carl Kellner were

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you know, we're in Germany, so I'm assuming that's why

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Curley went there. But Curley was also working for British intelligence,

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so he might have had you know, intelligence jobs he

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was supposed to do or something as well. But yes,

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there is a dark, deep seated connection with German paganism

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Germanic traditions that I think kind of are there. German

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films were doing a lot of satanic expressionism before Hollywood,

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so you had this in No Speratu, you had I

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think The Golem was a German film too, which is

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about Kabbala obviously, and you had Forri Slance, Metropolis and

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so forth. That's before Hollywood was really doing much of

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the satanic in the in cinema. But yeah, I would

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say there's probably a lot of that bubbling underneath the surface.

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And to mention Battle in Berlin that actually comes up

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in season two, there's a whole section of Season two

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part season one. I don't want to spoil it, but

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it's actually about compromising politicians with sex stuff, which is

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odd because that was coming out around the same time,

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as like the jeff Stein Jeffrey stuff. Season two deals

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with a bunch of actors and actresses that are involved

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in a satanic cult in the German film production business.

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And then it kind of hints that like transhumanists, Carl

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Young Cia mind control stuff towards the end.

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Speaker 1: So fascinating. Yeah, I should check that out. That's interesting.

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Speaker 5: It seems it's a pretty good show.

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Speaker 1: It seems like that this is, you know, part of

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a list of shows that have kind of become popular

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in this atmosphere of dead Hollywood. I think Stranger Things

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might be another example, or a Black Mirror could be

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another example, where.

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Speaker 5: What mirrors in the book? By the way?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Interesting? And would you say that these shows are

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inspired by Lynch to some degree? I mean, he's obviously

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a prolific director and people everyone knows who he is.

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But you know, do you see any of Lynch's work

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in some of the newer stuff you've looked at?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's all over the place.

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I remember watching a pretty good independent horror film called

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Come True. I feel like it was very lynchinging and

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it's influence Stranger Things. Maybe I hadn't thought about that

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off the top of my head. I mean there was

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a lot of like, I mean, the in between, that's

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kind of like, you know, the you know, the the

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other place in Twin Peaks. So yeah, maybe that was there.

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I just didn't notice it. We've seen a lot of

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independent horror films over the last couple of years, and

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I would imagine quite a few of them have that

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kind of influence. I'm just not I can't think of

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anything off the top of my head that stands out

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other than something like Come True. There's a new independent

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horror film I just saw the other day, and I

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watched the trailer. I've got it on my Amazon list,

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but I don't remember the name of it, but it

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looked just like a David Lynch film. So I would

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say absolutely, I'm sure that you know, Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks,

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you know, Mahan Dry. I think these films are going

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to be influencing people for years to come.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there is an aspect to them. And you

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write about this. You've You've written about Lynch's work in

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both Esoteric Hollywood one and two, and You've also done

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a pretty comprehensive breakdown of Lynch's work on your YouTube

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channel recently, so I recommend folks check that out as

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an addition to today's conversation. But as it comes to

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you know, the whole Lynchian world of things, you reference

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it being sort of like a hallucinogenic experience, or maybe

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people who have had you know, hallucinogens experiences with them

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to some extent may see into his work in a

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way that others who haven't cannot. I get attest to

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this to some extent. But I'll also say that all

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of my and I'm not watching these films studying them,

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but all of my you know, attempts to recount a

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Lynch film end up spawning a dream sequence that upon

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further you know, investigation, like oh, that wasn't even a

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part of the film. So there's a part of his

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media that works its way into your psyche. I can

255
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at least attest to that. But yeah, describe that. And

256
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is this a part of something that inspired you to

257
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initially write this series? I mean, was Lynch's work particularly

258
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inspirational to you in general?

259
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Speaker 5: Yeah? I think for one, because I grew up with

260
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a lot of buddies that were you know, film boffs.

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We love movies, we love the arts in general, and

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I think we didn't understand in the nineties when we

263
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were watching this stuff what it meant. And that doesn't

264
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mean that I've understood it all and not trying to

265
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overanalyze and make it like it's some sort of giant

266
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puzzle that I've put all the pieces together. But I

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do think in the case of like Twin Peaks, for example,

268
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I did put a lot of the puzzle pieces for

269
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that together. I'd say about eight or nine years ago,

270
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I went through all the Twin Peaks is kind of

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in anticipation for season three that was coming. I don't

272
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think we even knew at the time that was coming,

273
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but it ended up working out that way, and I took,

274
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you know, copious notes, hid a lot of attention. I

275
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was actually reading a lot of texts that went along

276
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with it, not intentionally, but I was reading like Carl

277
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Young and Merkilla Iliada and him talking about shamanism. And

278
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then I remember watching Lost Highway and I felt like, Okay,

279
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so some of this is kind of starting to make sense.

280
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And I think it was elements of dissociation going on here.

281
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And I remember reading Senator Force Sinator Force's trilogy and

282
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he talked about how you know, there's these shamanic elements

283
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to Lynch and I think that was a big key

284
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that I never thought about before. Through the darkness, the

285
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futures passed, the magician lungs to see one chounce out

286
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,399
chance out between two worlds, fire walk with me. That's

287
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a shamanic kind of you know, Vegas meant magicians phrase

288
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or almost kind of a high coup, you could say.

289
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But I reading about Tantrasm and reading about Tulpa's you know,

290
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you have Coop in the story is a you know,

291
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he's interested in Tibetan Buddhism. So some of these keys

292
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I think helped me to kind of piece together what

293
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was going on. And then you get the one armed

294
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,799
man Mike or Gerard who talks about this magical ring

295
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that the people in the society where that I think

296
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was another key that when I saw sigils, you know,

297
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magic sigils in the background and several scenes, that was

298
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kind of a key for me.

299
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Speaker 8: That.

300
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Speaker 5: Okay, so there's like an esoteric component to this where

301
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they're using the keys of Solomon and they're trying to

302
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,759
you know, access the dark dimensions and whatnot, so to me,

303
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it just suggested crowleyan type of stuff. And when Mark

304
00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:53,000
Frost put out his book in twenty I don't know,

305
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:57,440
eighteen seventy and eighteen somewhere there about the Secret History

306
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,400
of Twin Peaks, it was all in there. He talked

307
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,160
about Crowley, Jack Parsons, you know, magic, rings, sex, magic,

308
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:08,759
mystical toponymy. I mean, it was all pretty much what

309
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I had laid out in my analysis I had written

310
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a few years before his book came out. So to me,

311
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that was a vindication of the reading that I had

312
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:19,440
of the film. I se the TV series and then

313
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we had season three come out and I had to

314
00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:24,119
put that in the book, and I combined that with

315
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,960
Firewalk with Me. So long story short, yeah, I think

316
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:30,440
understanding some of the elements of the shamanic traditions, the

317
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,759
magical ritual, magic traditions, Crowley, all that helped me to

318
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look back on this series that I didn't understand the

319
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,240
nineties and decode it. And then by extensions, some of

320
00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:43,920
those same themes appear in other mysterious films. I Lost

321
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,960
Highway or mahand Drive.

322
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I Lost Highway left a similar feeling. And

323
00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:53,720
I also have seen blue Velvet. I watched the entire

324
00:18:54,319 --> 00:18:59,160
Twin Peaks series, and I watched Firewalks with Me twice

325
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,960
because I was so disturbed by it. I didn't really

326
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,799
understand you know, some of the I guess more subtle

327
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,680
aspects of it, but there's a major theme. And maybe

328
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,720
I might be conflating the film with the television show,

329
00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:16,559
so correct me where I'm wrong. And I haven't seen

330
00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:19,920
the new, you know, version of Twin Peaks, but but

331
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there's a thread of sex trafficking going.

332
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Speaker 5: On with ye too, right.

333
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,839
Speaker 1: And and because of the geographical location of this fictional place,

334
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,440
they're sort of on the border of Canada, right, And

335
00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:40,920
Laura Palmer is sort of whisked into this world of

336
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,279
you know, drug use and prostitution and in at a

337
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very young age. And at first you're kind of like, wow,

338
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,880
how could this you know, young woman who's supposed to

339
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,759
be this symbol of American innocence, almost like the surgery. Right,

340
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,680
So help me understand this a little bit better, Like,

341
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:01,119
what what is David Lynch do you think trying to

342
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,240
tell us? Is there sort of you know, indulgence in

343
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,160
this that you think he's maybe complicit in? Or is

344
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this more of him, kind of just giving us a

345
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raw look at what America's under belly looks like.

346
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's the ladder for sure. I don't

347
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have any knowledge or evidence of him necessarily involved in

348
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anything malicious per se. I mean, I just think he

349
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,799
was coming from that vantage point with Blue Velvet, same

350
00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,880
theme one percent in Twin peaks, a lot of the

351
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,160
same spirit, a lot of the same vibe going on

352
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,519
between those two productions. But I think that the key

353
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,480
here is that you know, you have Laura's dad as

354
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the real villain here because you know, at some point

355
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,880
that we learned from Firewalk with Me, Leland had been

356
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seeing these prostitutes, one of whom looks similar to Laura Palmer,

357
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and Leland had been molesting her. And we also find

358
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:05,839
out that Leland seems to be possessed himself. He has

359
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,039
a you know, alternate personalities. There's a demonic manifestation that's

360
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kind of impelling him. So what appears to have happened

361
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is that Leland got involved with Ben Horn and other

362
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people who owns this sort of prostitution One eye jacks

363
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:24,680
this house of ill repute across the border. So he's

364
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not really subject to all the laws One Eye Jacks

365
00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:31,640
and then maybe at some point Leland had also gotten

366
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deeper into esoteric stuff, which is why Leland seems to

367
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,640
be involved in this the sex cult beyond just the

368
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prostitution ring at Ben Horn's One Eyed Jacks. And so yeah,

369
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,400
that's the deep dark secret here is that there is

370
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,240
a kind of a pedo you know, incest sex cult

371
00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:57,240
going on. And you know, if we pay attention to

372
00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:02,759
say season two of Twin Peaks with Wyndham Earl, you

373
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,759
have people in the intelligence establishment that are trying to

374
00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:09,440
tap into the dark side. You know, they want to

375
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:15,119
actually harness satanic energy, and I think that's explanation for

376
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,039
the Garment Bosia. You have these sort of demonic ish

377
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,680
entities or these beings from another dimension that kind of

378
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,480
inhabit this you know, Black Lodge or the place in between,

379
00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:27,640
and they want to feed on garment Bosia or the

380
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pain and the suffering of people in this life that

381
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,960
are abused by the people that they possess, so they

382
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,720
can possess a serial killer, you know, the one our

383
00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:42,039
man Bob, et cetera, and try to get those people

384
00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:46,480
to commit evil actions which feeds those demons so I

385
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:50,119
think that's all very profound. I mean, I actually believe

386
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,279
a lot of that being Orthodox, but I think David

387
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,920
Lynch's vantage point is much more like a Tibetan Buddhist

388
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,000
kind of spirituality here. But Buddhism believes in the demonics,

389
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,119
so you have the idea of Tulpa's especially in season

390
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,039
three when we get fake agent Cooper, who's a Tulpa.

391
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:11,920
You get elements of Theosophy kind of playing a role here.

392
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,720
So I think it does pull from different religious traditions

393
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:19,440
and even shamanism as well as ritual magic. But you

394
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:24,160
also have other conspiracy things tying into like aliens. You've

395
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,680
got the Major for his name, but he's the guy

396
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,119
that plays the general in the Stargate. But to Major Briggs,

397
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,480
Major Briggs is there to investigate on the behalf of

398
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:36,759
the military and the deep state. You could say what

399
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,240
they think are alien manifestations, but it's actually the same

400
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,640
thing as all the spiritual demonic manifestations, so it's not

401
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,759
actually aliens. But there's a white lodge and a black lodge.

402
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:51,680
And I think this one picture it's somebody drew. I

403
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,039
don't know how trew it, but it kind of encapsulates

404
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,519
like the spirituality of the whole Twin Peaks of world.

405
00:23:57,599 --> 00:23:59,839
If you can see it, it's like you've got.

406
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I saw you show this in your stream.

407
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,480
It's very interesting. It's the two peaks with a sort

408
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:08,839
of I guess you could call it a zigzag of

409
00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:12,880
three rectangles touching on each end.

410
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,759
Speaker 5: You've got the white lodge up top, You've got the

411
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,839
black lodge at the bottom, and they're kind of in

412
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,519
these diamond structures in between the two mountains, the two peaks,

413
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,960
and the diamond in the middle is the portal, which

414
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,759
is the pool out and in the woods it's like

415
00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:31,279
a it looks like an oil, like an oil, like

416
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:34,559
a naturally occurring sort of pool of oil. And you know,

417
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:37,079
they describe it as kind of having this demonic kind

418
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,319
of burning, burning oil smell when they go out there.

419
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,000
But yeah, it's a portal. It's a pathway into the

420
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,240
next dimension. And yeah, so that's that's what's going on

421
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:47,960
in Twin Peaks. Wow.

422
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating. And you mentioned the term mystical toponymy.

423
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,440
I think it's very relevant that they're crossing the border

424
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,440
to go to One Eyed Jacks. This sort of implied

425
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,119
this limit in all space, this boundary zone, which is

426
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,599
often very mystical in many different folklores. There's all sorts

427
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,119
of lore about whether it's gateways or however it's termed.

428
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:18,599
But I'm curious. There's also the mention of twilight language,

429
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,559
which we know Twilight language quite well. We've interviewed to

430
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,240
Michael Hoffman here on the show, and mystical toponomy is

431
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,559
one term that I think him and well, mister oh geez,

432
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:34,680
I'm drawing from blank on the dang fool's name. I

433
00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:39,359
know him well, but Hoffman and shall be down or

434
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,920
James Shelby down or you know, kind of popularized mystical

435
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,880
toponomy with their King Kill thirty three. So it seems

436
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:52,079
like David Lynch was at least privy to the conspiracy

437
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,759
culture of America. But do you think that you know

438
00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:58,720
he well, like as far as Twilight language goes, like

439
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,039
what made your themes? Did you notice?

440
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:05,599
Speaker 5: I think he is familiar with that because that's actually

441
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,200
part of Tibetan Buddhism, and even in that sort of

442
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,759
the normy kind of western Dalai Lama, familiar aspects of

443
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,000
Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism and whatnot. It's the term. It's

444
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
called sun dabiyasa, And I'd actually forgotten about this and

445
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,960
I was looking it up a couple of days ago,

446
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,160
So this is actually pretty providential synchronicity. Man Sona biyasa

447
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,200
is the is the their term for twilight language is

448
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,599
actually old concept that comes out of Eastern religions, and

449
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,359
the idea, at least on the surface, is just simply

450
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,599
that is talking in code. So basically, if you want

451
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,880
to talk about something that not everybody who's initiated can

452
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,480
understand you speaking code. One example of this is when

453
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,319
those traditions, for example, talk about the lotus, people say, oh,

454
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,119
you're talking about some sort of a flower symbol. No,

455
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,599
it's actually the vagina. So in just basic sunda biyasa

456
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,720
talking about a lotus literally refers to vagina. And there's

457
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,319
quite a bit of like you know, tantric sex magic

458
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,359
stuff that uses that idea. But it also might relate

459
00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:16,440
to the layout of space. Right, It's a spatial toponymy

460
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,000
is what we're talking about here. With the idea that

461
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,319
there are places that are sacred, there's places that are

462
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,880
perhaps consecrated to dark forces. Names take on a key

463
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:34,039
significance here where you have a term that might refer

464
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,519
to one thing but also refers to something else. And

465
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:38,720
so that's where the toponymy or the layout of the

466
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,119
land turns into something mystical. And I think just a

467
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,440
really basic example would be like we had in that

468
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,000
diagram where you have, you know, the middle place between

469
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,799
these two peaks is precisely the portal that takes you

470
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:55,440
either to the hell dimension or the demon dimension or

471
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,440
the in between. So even the term that you know

472
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:01,440
twin peaks, we could think of this as like two pillars,

473
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,920
like in masonry of Jacob and Boaz. You know that

474
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,079
that represents good and evil, you know, male female, very

475
00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:12,640
similar to like Yin Yang type stuff. Carl Jung talks

476
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,519
about this and his archetypes of the Collective Unconscious book,

477
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,880
which is I'm reading right now. I just read that

478
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,079
chapter actually one and Animis and Enema, and he's talking

479
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,079
about that very point. But what I'm saying is that

480
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,319
even though what we might think of as say, symbolic

481
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,799
correspondences can also relate to places and names, and that's

482
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:36,079
really where mystical toponomy comes into play. Lost highway. I mean,

483
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,720
I think that's another type of term where you have

484
00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:42,200
this idea of, like you said, the liminal space you're driving,

485
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,359
you know, out in the desert like Fred Madison does

486
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,000
and lost highway and it's almost like he drives off

487
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:51,559
into another dimension. And so what's a lost highway. Well,

488
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:54,240
I think Hoffman used examples of something like Route sixty

489
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:57,160
six and you know, driving out to Death Valley. You know,

490
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,920
this kind of terminology would suggest you know, negative spiritual forces,

491
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,240
this kind of stuff. So that's kind of the idea

492
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:05,160
behind mystical toponomy.

493
00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:10,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's the Road of the Dead Spirits

494
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,319
or something like that in Spanish, this road that has

495
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,680
historically been there for you know, however long the natives

496
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,759
have been there. And yeah, now this is exactly where

497
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:27,000
the Trinity bombing site is, which is another theme in

498
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:31,000
Lynch's work. There's not just in Twin Peaks, but in

499
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,599
several of his films there's actually this is.

500
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:35,599
Speaker 5: A huge part of season three. I'm sorry, I mean

501
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,839
interrupt you just finding me. The Trenity explosion is a

502
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,440
huge part of season three and it actually a demon

503
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,000
comes through the portal when the bomb goes off in

504
00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:48,079
season three.

505
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,559
Speaker 1: Now, season three came out in twenty seventeen, Lynch, did

506
00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:57,519
he have his hands on that at all. I'm completely

507
00:29:57,799 --> 00:29:59,240
in the dark as far as that one.

508
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:01,079
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, in fact, I mean I was a really

509
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,359
hyped for it looking forward to there was a lot

510
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,200
of concern because there was fear it wouldn't get made.

511
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:10,680
And then showtime was who sort of came to the

512
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,640
rescue to make sure that it did get made? And yeah,

513
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:17,000
I think they pretty much gave David Lynch, you know,

514
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:21,000
final cut, and he made all those decisions. And actually

515
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:25,160
I did mention Hoffmann in my chapter on season three,

516
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,519
so you're you're correct that mystical toponomy plays a key

517
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:33,160
role I think in season three, again precisely because of

518
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,440
the Trinity Site explosions, being it's such a portal that opens.

519
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a big part of American culture. I

520
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,680
think just the road trip. It's a classic American idea.

521
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,599
We all have this pioneering spirit, whether you're in the

522
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,160
Midwest or the West, and your ancestors actually you know,

523
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,240
traveled on a kind of stoke a wagon or you know,

524
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:00,599
if you're like me and you're some kind of East

525
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,920
Coast mutt and your family came over on ships. You know,

526
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,880
we all have this adventurous sort of spirit in US

527
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,000
as Americans. It's sort of the frontier still in many ways,

528
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,720
and Lynch definitely plays on that. But with Lost Highway

529
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:20,839
there there is a lead in to his film Inland

530
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:21,839
Empire as well.

531
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,599
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I think there's a loose connection between. I mean,

532
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,680
you could argue there's a loose connection between all of

533
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:31,960
David Lynch's cannon in some way, at least in his mind.

534
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:34,599
And you'll notice a lot of times these characters kind

535
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,759
of pop in and out from one story to the next.

536
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,240
Right and Lost Highway you have, you know, Sailor and

537
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:44,039
Lula driving down what looks like the Lost Highway and

538
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:47,119
they encounter who appears to be Audrey Horn, right, so

539
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,079
it's the same character from Twin Peaks, and she seems

540
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:54,559
to have had a wreck and a head wound. And

541
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:56,960
then when we come over to That's Me that's in

542
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,839
Wild Heart, Then we come over to Lost Highway. You know,

543
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:02,920
Fred seems to be on that same Lost Highway. He

544
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,599
seems to he gets a head wound when he's in prison,

545
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,519
and then we get this sort of dissociation into the

546
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:11,119
Life of Pete in the second half of the film.

547
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,039
So yeah, there's there's always these kind of overlaps. You

548
00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:18,559
get Laura Palmer appears to show up in Wild at

549
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:21,359
Heart as the good Witch of the West, you know,

550
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,319
at the end of the film, who encourages Nick Cage

551
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:26,240
to go and and you know, kiss Laura Dern to

552
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:28,799
make sure that they don't part ways. So, you know,

553
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,160
David Lynch talks about these different worlds and different portals

554
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,079
and dimensions and dream worlds and and he kind of

555
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:41,319
sees them as infinite and perhaps overlapping. And that's partly due,

556
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:46,720
I think to his influence from Hinduism, transittal, meditation, all

557
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:49,039
that kind of stuff that he's into or was into,

558
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,599
that plays a role, I think in his metaphysics. And

559
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,200
I didn't even realize until pretty recently I was reading

560
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,119
about Inland Empire. It's relying pretty heavily on a lot

561
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:02,440
of Hindu concept So you have reincarnation there, you have

562
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200
this tea. I didn't even realize this, but apparently Lynch

563
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,119
got some of these ideas from not Mari Maharishi Mahshiyogi,

564
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,799
but some other Yogi dude who talks about contrasting the

565
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:15,119
palace in the marketplace and the different world and portals

566
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,440
of how we live our lives in these different domains,

567
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,839
and I did I didn't know any of that was

568
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,160
part of Inland Empire, but now that I do, it's like,

569
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,799
clearly that's part of the motif of how you're supposed

570
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:26,519
to interpret this.

571
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it seems like the cast system, the sort

572
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,319
of what do they call it in India, the undesirables

573
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,440
are are sort of the way I don't know if

574
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,839
this is directly portrayed in Inland Empire, but the end

575
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,720
of the film where she's sort of like, you know,

576
00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:45,720
just rambling.

577
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 5: Around with like the people who are drug addicts and.

578
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,319
Speaker 1: Right right, I don't remember when that film was made by,

579
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,039
but I imagine at the time that was something that

580
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,680
was less common than it is now. That was something

581
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,119
that was maybe more local to West Coast cities like

582
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:04,640
La you know, skid Row's been around for a really

583
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,199
long time, and then you know San Francisco has their

584
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:13,480
Tenderloin area. But yeah, it seems like now we look

585
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,400
at that and we're like, oh, yeah, I mean that

586
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,760
could be any American city with the you know, drug

587
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,159
addicts all over the place wandering around.

588
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, it was prior to like Fentanel. You're

589
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,360
right about that, Like that was prior to that whole

590
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:32,079
I would say, you know, intentional culture war where they

591
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,960
allowed that to be flooded into America. But yeah, I

592
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,119
think that. You know, there's a lot of things going

593
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,760
on with the Laura during character. It's breaking the fourth wall.

594
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,760
She's intended to be herself to a degree, and it

595
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,320
overlaps between you know, whether she's really having these experiences

596
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,039
or whether it's happening in her head and she's seeing

597
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:57,199
back to her past life when she was a human

598
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,159
traffic to prostitute, you know, Polish girl and in a

599
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:03,559
previous generation. So it kind of flips back and forth

600
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:09,280
between those worlds and those lifetimes. But I think you're

601
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,960
right to point out the marketplace and the palace because

602
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,119
when she becomes essentially kind of a street prostitute, drug addict,

603
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:20,119
I mean that's she's become a marketable item. And I

604
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:23,719
think Lynch is saying, yeah, the Hollywood markets these actresses

605
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,599
as items and as products. That's exactly what's in the

606
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:31,280
Hall and Drive. Because then Naomi Watt's character wins this contest,

607
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,079
she goes to Hollywood. She thinks she's going to be

608
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:37,800
the next A list star. That's why you see you know,

609
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,360
posters on her wall that are all these old school

610
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:44,679
starlets from the golden days of Hollywood. And the whole

611
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:46,239
point of the film is that she ends up as

612
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,400
a crackhre But a lot of the film we're seeing

613
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,920
her sort of dissociative idea about like what she thinks

614
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,119
is happening and how she's a star, how she got

615
00:35:56,119 --> 00:35:58,880
screwed over, and a lot of that's fake. Like everything

616
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,599
I think after the the car wreck is like you know,

617
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:05,960
in her head or whatever if I remember. But yeah,

618
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,320
so Lynch's I think, playing with all these different ideas

619
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,920
from disassociation to like you said, knowledge of American conspiracy culture,

620
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,119
to you know, nods to Hitchcock nods to Sunset Boulevard,

621
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,119
old you know, old classic Hollywood films, even the Prawn

622
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,519
side of Hollywood with the Roseanne Arquette character under mister Eddie, right,

623
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,320
obviously he's an organized crime figure who you know, he's

624
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,599
making prawn and she's one of his his actresses. So

625
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,400
it's you know, it's all over the place. And then

626
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,079
it's it's that's all tied into weird Tibetan and Hindu metaphysics.

627
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:46,800
I mean, it's just it's just wild. I mean, I

628
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,039
don't even know what to I don't even I don't

629
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:50,679
think there's anything like that. I mean, that's why people

630
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:52,199
call it lynch and I mean I don't even know

631
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,920
what are you like in it? Too? It's not really

632
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,639
like anything else.

633
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and you you comment on the background weirdos

634
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:02,239
that are present in a lot of his work, and

635
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,800
it reminds me of an art class learning about Hieronymous

636
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,159
Bosh and his absurd sort of paintings. You look and

637
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,559
it's just flooded with like every you know, character you

638
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:18,079
can imagine, and especially in in the what was it

639
00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:21,639
Blue Velvet or another film I forget which one, where

640
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,320
there's a villain character and he's sort of tormenting this

641
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,840
other character and there's this gang of people behind him.

642
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,039
Speaker 5: Yeah it's Blue Velvet. It's that famous. So you've got

643
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:34,079
Dean Stockwell, who by the way, was at least Day

644
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,320
McGowan another little speculated that he was in the oto,

645
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,119
and he's the one singing the Roy Orbison. You know,

646
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:42,960
Blue Velvet Song, and there's just all this crowd or

647
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,480
just absolute complete weirdos that are part of Dennis Hopper's gang.

648
00:37:48,159 --> 00:37:50,400
And I mean, you know, he's just like this completely

649
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,159
insane villain who huffs. You know, it was supposed to

650
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:57,000
be laughing gas or whatever, but I mean he's just

651
00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:01,039
nuts and it's a great villain character. But before I

652
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:03,920
did the podcast the other night talking about Lynch's stuff,

653
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,119
I watched a whole bunch of Lynch interviews. I mean

654
00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:09,519
a bunch of or just with him, Charlie Rose, him

655
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:13,480
and Mimi Watts, and a lot of it's comedy, and

656
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,400
David Lynch was very open about how a lot of

657
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,519
his films were intentionally just you know, comedic, and other

658
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,119
actors and people were talking about how he had such

659
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:24,280
a great sense of humor and the absurd, and I

660
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,360
think that's another reason I like it as absurd ast

661
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,119
humor is kind of my bag. So yeah, he's you know,

662
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:32,079
putting a lot of stuff in there that's just because

663
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:35,159
it's funny. And the more I watched like Bald at Heart,

664
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:37,719
I mean that film always gets funnier the more I

665
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:38,199
watch it.

666
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: So interesting, Yeah, I definitely need to revisit Lynch's work,

667
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,320
especially you know, post mortem. I think his impact is

668
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,480
going to probably be a bit of a ripple effect.

669
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:53,440
People are going to jump to to, you know, say, oh,

670
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:56,719
this was inspired by Lynch, and maybe they'll even be

671
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,639
some Lynch flotation or something like that.

672
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:03,159
Speaker 5: You know. But Wallet Heart.

673
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: No, that's what I haven't seen.

674
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,119
Speaker 5: And yeah, that's great, that's one of my favorites. And

675
00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:11,000
by the way, the cowboy makes an appearance in Wallet Heart,

676
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:14,360
and he also makes of course a memorable appearance in

677
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,079
Mahl and Drive.

678
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you you mentioned that earlier that there

679
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:21,760
are several overlaps. It's almost like the realm the cannon

680
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,719
of Lynch's film, similar to the way people talk about Tarantino,

681
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,239
where he kind of builds this world that all of

682
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,079
his films exist in. And yeah, it's fascinating, but on

683
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:38,639
the point of symbolism in Twilight Zone or well Twilight Language,

684
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:42,119
particularly not Twilight Zone. But I'm sure that had an

685
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:47,199
impact on Lynch, the rotating objects. And you pointed this

686
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,960
out in your stream that you did recently, and as

687
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,440
soon as you said that, I pictured a scene in

688
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,320
my mind from Twin Peaks with like I think it

689
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,239
was as simple as just a fan on a desk. Yeah, well, yeah,

690
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,119
I was there. There was a ceiling fan, but I

691
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:06,280
remember like one of those old school like wire frame

692
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:09,880
kind of just desk fans that you know, one shot

693
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,000
where you just spend some time focusing on that. So

694
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:18,280
there's several, you know, moments like that where he's showing

695
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,360
this and then the road we just mentioned as another symbol,

696
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:24,360
sort of object symbol that he uses. But what what

697
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,360
did you connect the rotating objects to?

698
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,519
Speaker 5: Well, I mean it's a circle. It's cyclical. I mean

699
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:34,760
I think that's intended to be the idea of the wheel.

700
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,519
You know, you have this Hinduism and a lot of

701
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:40,239
Eastern religions that there's this cycle of time and you're

702
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,039
sort of in this trap until you can transcend it.

703
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:47,960
At you nirvana, you know, release yourself from the wheel

704
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,920
of time. So that's an element of it. The movies

705
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,039
themselves are oftentimes cyclical. You know, Lost Highway ends the

706
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:57,880
very point it begins with Fred driving down the Lost Highway.

707
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:00,320
This the opening sequences. If I were oh, it was

708
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,199
the same as the end, And I think he's just

709
00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:06,679
trying to say that, you know, his take on philosophy, history,

710
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,760
metaphysics is this kind of cyclical perspective. It's not linear,

711
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,679
Hence it's more like a dream. Stories have beginning, middle,

712
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:16,960
and end, and a lot of his movies kind of

713
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:19,719
jump around so that they can. Again, they're not linear,

714
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,599
they're more cyclical. The ancient pagan view of history was

715
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:26,400
that it was a never ending, eternal return cycle and

716
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,039
not a beginning, middle, and end. So that's I think

717
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:31,360
what is going on with law of that symbolism, and

718
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,639
you'll find it too, even in the music videos, like

719
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,960
all the things him and Crystal Bell, you know that

720
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,519
has the record spinning. Multiple David Lynch music videos have

721
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:43,519
the record spinning, So I think that's the purpose.

722
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: Right. And we know that some people who are epileptic

843
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:03,920
is it epileptic? I can't say that word more than

844
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,119
once when they're exposed to you know, flashing lights that

845
00:50:08,199 --> 00:50:11,920
can induce, you know, certain seizures and things like that.

846
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:16,239
There's also a gentleman who built some sort of device

847
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,000
that he was kind of prolific. I'm having a massive

848
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,599
blame it on Hewle, folks, not a show sponsor my brain.

849
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,000
I feel like I'm firing on some cylinders tonight. But

850
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:31,400
there's this guy. He built like this device and he

851
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,079
was pretty inspirational. I think I've even heard you talk

852
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:38,440
about him in past talks. He was like not HG. Wells,

853
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,320
but in that milieu of British people scientifics, I mean.

854
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,079
Speaker 5: Like Wilhelm Reich and Oregon.

855
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: Well, there's Wilhelm Reich, but no, this guy was more

856
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:51,719
British and he was specifically from London. But he created

857
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,880
some kind of device that he called like a dream

858
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,159
scope or something, but it worked with lights to induce

859
00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:59,599
a sort of effect. I guess, you know, just a

860
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:03,840
little to point out that flickering lights is another symbol

861
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,039
that's reoccurring in Lynch's work.

862
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:07,679
Speaker 5: What do you think that, Yeah, I think I know

863
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,320
what you're talking about. I don't remember the name of

864
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,639
that guy that created the first sort of I know

865
00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:14,079
what you're talking about. I think in David Lynch's films,

866
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:18,519
when it comes to flickering the lights, it's intended to

867
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,159
be the sign of something supernatural or demonic that's invading

868
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,679
the here and the now, because we see the flickering

869
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,199
lights when Chris Isaac and Fire walk with me, when

870
00:51:29,199 --> 00:51:32,480
he arrives at the diner right away, the lights flicker

871
00:51:32,519 --> 00:51:35,599
and they see like the people that are in the

872
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:39,280
above the gas station that we're involved in, the weird

873
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,760
spirits and the woodsmen appear and then they disappear. The

874
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,400
cowboy and mahand Drive appears when the lights flicker. I'm

875
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,199
sure there's many other instances when I think the lights flicker.

876
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:57,000
When Laura Palmer is laying in the morgue and Cooper's investigating,

877
00:51:57,039 --> 00:52:02,840
and he sees Bob maybe or he sees Girard, I

878
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,679
can't remember. But anyway, the point being is that this

879
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:08,559
seems to be a recurring motif whenever David Lynch wants

880
00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:13,440
to introduce almost like an atmosphere disturbance due to something

881
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,119
from that realm stepping into this realm. So there's like

882
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:22,719
this electrical disturbance. Oh, it happens when David Bowie walks

883
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,800
into the FBI headquarters and disappears. There's like this electrical

884
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,800
disturbance that affects the video recorders when he says I'm

885
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,039
not going to talk about Judy and then he disappears,

886
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:36,960
and then he doesn't come back. We don't know what

887
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:39,920
happens to him until season three or twin Peaks when

888
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,159
he appears. I won't spoil that for you, but it's

889
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:45,679
it's kind of goofy. Agent Jeffries, that's his name. He

890
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,280
teleports basically so.

891
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:50,039
Speaker 1: Well, and I remembered who I was thinking of. It

892
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:53,159
was William S. Burrows, and he created something called the

893
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,119
dream Machine. A poet and artist, I guess, but yeah,

894
00:52:57,159 --> 00:53:01,880
it was operated with flickering life, and I think it caused,

895
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,800
you know, some research into that phenomena that causes seizure,

896
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:11,239
so there's somehow related to that. But either way, fascinating

897
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,039
to think that we have, you know, all of this

898
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:19,480
in Lynch's work. It's really like a mythology in itself.

899
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:22,760
I know you mentioned, you know, Mark Frost sort of

900
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:28,320
did the Secret History of Twin Peaks, but there definitely

901
00:53:28,519 --> 00:53:31,880
ought to be a sort of twilight language of David

902
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:38,000
Lynch's work because overall it's it's fascinating the depth of it.

903
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:43,599
But you talk about Twin Peaks and maybe Lynch's work

904
00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:47,000
in general as a sort of shamanic journey. Has he

905
00:53:47,639 --> 00:53:51,920
explicitly talked about that at all? Is there any in

906
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,559
those reviews that you did in the interviews, as you've

907
00:53:54,679 --> 00:53:55,480
mentioned that.

908
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 5: He made the statement. I think it's from an interview

909
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,440
he said I learned that, and he may he may

910
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,719
be talking about transf meditation. I remember the context, but

911
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,800
the quote is I learned that just beneath the surface,

912
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,800
there's another world, So he could be talking about the

913
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,119
unconscious probably when he goes when you go into the

914
00:54:11,159 --> 00:54:13,800
transitt meditation state, you're sort of like pulling out of

915
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,840
the subconscious these ideas, and he says, and still different worlds.

916
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:23,079
If you dig deeper, that's pretty you know, yunion, or

917
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,079
you can find that in the shamanic tradition. And the

918
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:29,280
reason I said shamanic tradition is because through the darkness

919
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,679
the futures past, a magician longs to see one chance

920
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:34,840
out between two worlds. Fire walk with me, well, walking

921
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,800
on coals or fire, that's what you know Shamans do,

922
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,400
That's what you know. Indigenous religious rights are usually connected

923
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,480
to that. And I remember reading Iliada at the time,

924
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:47,840
his book on shamanism, and he talked about it as

925
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,320
not a religion, but a technique of ecstasy, the system

926
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,039
of ecstatic at therapeutic methods, whose purpose is to obtain

927
00:54:55,159 --> 00:55:00,000
contact with parallel worlds, universe of spirits, and to win

928
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:04,039
over their support in dealing with the affairs of this life.

929
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,360
And I thought that that was just I mean, perfectly

930
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,280
described the idea of firewalk with me doing a firewalk.

931
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,960
But actually that was in Peter Lavende's Sensor Force's trilogy

932
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:19,239
was the first place I saw that, and he wrote,

933
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,880
the strange little verse is a key to unlocking the mysteries,

934
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,840
not only Twin Peaks but most of Lynch's films. The

935
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,679
suspension of the normal laws of time, hence the term

936
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,239
futures passed, that cyclical history, and the idea that the

937
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,559
magician lives between two worlds, the suspension of normal linear

938
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,400
narratives in favor of a dreamlike hallucinatory set of images.

939
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,280
This is all just shamanic to me, and it fit

940
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:49,679
perfectly with what I was reading in Iliada at the time,

941
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,679
and Ilioda and these people they are like sort of

942
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,960
famous competitive religion scholars.

943
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 1: Wow, we just had an interview on this show. Is

944
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,639
one of the most interesting talk I've had in a

945
00:56:00,639 --> 00:56:04,559
long time with this guy who you know, very smart,

946
00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:08,360
but you know, by all appearances he might be a nutcase.

947
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,159
I think that's kind of the beauty of it sometimes.

948
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,639
But he was talking to us about Chigong and this

949
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:20,719
idea about reality and time being understood best through music

950
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:26,280
rather than space spatial relationships, right, And you just kind

951
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,119
of reminded me of that. He talks about the I

952
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:32,679
think it's a three to fifth arrangement as just that

953
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,000
that interplay between the future and the past, and that

954
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,599
you know, music is kind of like this bridge between

955
00:56:40,639 --> 00:56:42,800
the two. It's fascinating.

956
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,159
Speaker 5: In season three of Twin Pigs. To add to that point,

957
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:51,039
I don't know much about Chinese philosophy or key Gong,

958
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:55,559
but Lynch does include that idea in season three because

959
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,519
if you remember, at the end of Mahalan Drive, he

960
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:01,960
says no hi bondo there is no tape. At first

961
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,079
it says it's all recorded, it's just a tape, and

962
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:05,519
then at the end it's there is no tape, there

963
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:08,000
is no recording. So we get the idea of well,

964
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,400
is the world like a record playing in a circle?

965
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,000
A record is also a phonograph. In season three, we

966
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:21,119
get this giant universe phonograph that plays souls into existence,

967
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,639
and so I wrote about how we get this flash

968
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:27,960
into the spirit realm in season three and we see

969
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:32,760
Laura's soul being created and sung into existence or played

970
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,719
like a giant instrument through this universal phonograph. And this

971
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,199
actually refers to if you've never seen Robert Flood's Temple

972
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:45,360
of Music, this was an ancient Renaissance idea. Here's a

973
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,639
little picture of the Temple of Music, and the idea

974
00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:52,400
is that the universe is being sung into existence, and

975
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,199
you can go back to like Pythagoras, who believe that

976
00:57:56,719 --> 00:58:01,239
musical notes and numbers were the secret to reality, and

977
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,000
that reality corresponds to different notes that correspond to the

978
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,960
celestial spheres, and they're being sung into existence or played

979
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,800
into existence. So that's actually what I put in that

980
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,239
chapter because that's apparently some part of what's going on

981
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,199
in season three or twin peaks.

982
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,719
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm really glad I made that connection. And judging

983
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,039
by how much my audience loved that interview, they'll really

984
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:25,920
love that part.

985
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,599
Speaker 5: And yeah, this would definitely vibe with that. It's called

986
00:58:28,679 --> 00:58:31,119
do you want the specifics? All ready? This the theater

987
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,639
in the palace itself is a kind of giant phonograph

988
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,599
with pipes, and when the male and female aspects come together,

989
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,840
Laura is sung or played into existence. This is her soul.

990
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,840
And this is in the vein of the Pythagorean and

991
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:49,559
Renaissance Neoplatonic conception of the musica Universalis. Look up the

992
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:53,360
music at Universalis and you'll notice that in this system,

993
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,079
the celestial and planetary spheres that go in big circles

994
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:01,840
like a record play the notes that are sung or

995
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:06,079
it's the musical vibration that's occurring at different pitches, and

996
00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:09,760
that this creates reality and the harmony of the universe.

997
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,320
Various esotric philosophers have theorized upon this, one of which

998
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,079
is Robert Flood's Temple of Music, and so that's a

999
00:59:17,079 --> 00:59:19,280
big part of season three of Twin Peaks.

1000
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: Well, and on that note, as far as music goes,

1001
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:28,760
did you look into David Lynch's thoughts on that as

1002
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,960
approach to that? I, you know, when I think about

1003
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,960
Twin Peaks, I think about sort of synths. I sort

1004
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,239
of think about, you know, kind of moody music. But

1005
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,719
was there anything worth noting about his approach to scoring

1006
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:42,480
his work.

1007
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 5: I remember him saying stuff in interviews like the sound

1008
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:48,639
is just as important as any scene. And he would

1009
00:59:48,679 --> 00:59:54,840
say stuff like every visual place is a world and

1010
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,599
a story, and so he would just kind of let

1011
00:59:58,719 --> 01:00:00,760
these things come to him. And so like if he

1012
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:05,280
walked into a a park and he liked the visual

1013
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,000
scenery there, he would say, well, you know, what's the story?

1014
01:00:08,039 --> 01:00:10,519
And he would try to get this inspiration of an

1015
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:13,760
entire world built up from this one event or this

1016
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,119
one scene, and then he would do the same thing

1017
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:19,320
with sound and try to build or allow an entire

1018
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,400
world to be built out of the scene and the

1019
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,800
sound that goes with it, or sometimes he says even

1020
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,960
the sound is more important than the scene, and he

1021
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,840
would hear a sound and then try to craft the

1022
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,639
visual imagery of the scene from the sound, which is

1023
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:36,920
very uncompon. That's not what a lot of directors would do.

1024
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,400
So in that regard, yeah, I would say, like David

1025
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,639
Lynch saw himself as just as much a musician as

1026
01:00:42,719 --> 01:00:46,360
a film director. Again, because if you have this sort

1027
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,760
of music, a universalist conception, everything is kind of a music.

1028
01:00:51,239 --> 01:00:54,800
Everything is kind of a vibration, so to speak, being

1029
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,800
sung into existence or spoken too existence. I mean the

1030
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,000
Orthodox or the Bible conception when God speaks it's his

1031
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:06,840
logos that brings reality into existence. So I think even

1032
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,199
in Christianity this is there, by the way, if you've

1033
01:01:09,199 --> 01:01:15,559
ever read C. S. Lewis's Narnia, in the very first

1034
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:20,480
one before Lionelwitch and Wardrobe, it's a magician's nephew Aslan

1035
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:23,679
does this very thing. He sings Narnia in the world

1036
01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:26,880
into existence. So this is also part of by the way,

1037
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,760
also it's in Lord of the Rings, I think the

1038
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,079
volar singing Middle Earth into existence too. Anyway, this comes

1039
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:36,519
out of neo platonism. I think that's definitely going on

1040
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:40,159
in David Lynch's music as well, and so he probably

1041
01:01:40,199 --> 01:01:44,039
sees that as kind of creating reality in a smaller

1042
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:47,320
sense from what the music in the sound is doing.

1043
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,159
I'm thinking of a like if you watch the song

1044
01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:55,360
he did with christ of Bell, bird of Flames, that

1045
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:58,239
is about the phoenix, which is a bird of flames, right,

1046
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,320
which arrives out of ashes, And the video is very bizarre,

1047
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,960
it's very Lynch and obviously and she sort of emerges

1048
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,079
from a cocoon, but even when she merges from the cocoon,

1049
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:10,800
it's like she is controlled by sort of puppeteer strings. So,

1050
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,159
I mean, I'm not sure what we're supposed to We're

1051
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:17,239
supposed to think that pop stars are controlled puppets. I

1052
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,039
don't know, but there's a lot of sort of monarch

1053
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:20,519
symbology going on that video.

1054
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I hadn't heard of this artist before you

1055
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:29,119
had shown her work in your breakdown in the stream.

1056
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:32,599
Was she very successful as a pop star? It didn't

1057
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:33,199
seem like.

1058
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,599
Speaker 5: Crystal Bell's not huge, No, she's more kind of in

1059
01:02:36,679 --> 01:02:40,119
the indie and lesser known, but she was very close

1060
01:02:40,159 --> 01:02:45,800
to Lynch towards the production time of season three, and

1061
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,519
he put her in as one of the FBI agents

1062
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:51,320
in charge of the Blue Rose case. And so if

1063
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,280
you watch Firewatk with me, then you remember when Keeper

1064
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,840
Sutherland and Chris isaac A talking to David Lynch. He's

1065
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,679
explaining that it's a Blue Rose, right, It's a Blue

1066
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,000
Rose case, which we later find out is basically like

1067
01:03:05,199 --> 01:03:08,199
X Files. It's a case where there's supernatural phenomenon that

1068
01:03:08,239 --> 01:03:10,800
the FBI is investigating. So there might be a little

1069
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,599
bit of a nod to X Files there, and David

1070
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:18,159
Lynch did cast or they put David Duchovney in Twin Peaks,

1071
01:03:18,159 --> 01:03:21,719
says this kind of goofball cross dressing character, so there

1072
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,679
might be some nods to two X Files there as well.

1073
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:27,480
But the point being is that Blue Rose is a

1074
01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:30,920
we later find out as a supernatural case. But in

1075
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,719
season three, Christa Bell plays the FBI agent tasked with

1076
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,320
the Blue Rose case. And then all of those songs

1077
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,239
that Lynch wrote for a good while, I mean he

1078
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,840
did some songs with some other pop stars like like Lee,

1079
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,320
but he did a whole album with Crysta Bell, so

1080
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,119
they seem to have a pretty close you know, she

1081
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:54,800
was probably his muse for that period, so that's why

1082
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,079
I kept referencing her.

1083
01:03:56,239 --> 01:04:01,559
Speaker 1: But interesting. Yeah, one artist comes to mind, or a

1084
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:05,519
group that comes to mind, is the Cocktaw Twins. I

1085
01:04:05,559 --> 01:04:11,199
don't know if Lynch used their work. Maybe he did.

1086
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 5: A very important sequence at the end of lostwa.

1087
01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've talked to Chris Knowles here on the

1088
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,079
show plenty of times, and he does a great breakdown

1089
01:04:20,159 --> 01:04:23,320
of all the strange things with Elizabeth Frasier and the

1090
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,519
Cocktaw Twins and how she's connected to the death of

1091
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:30,599
Chris Cornell in some ways, not as as a guilty party,

1092
01:04:30,639 --> 01:04:34,760
but maybe in more of this sort of deadly muse siren.

1093
01:04:36,159 --> 01:04:36,719
Speaker 5: That's interesting.

1094
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I encourage you to look into it because

1095
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,320
Chris Chris does a great job similar work to you

1096
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,760
with the breakdown of media and and yeah, I think

1097
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,760
you both if he did collaborate.

1098
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,119
Speaker 5: The guy that wrote The Heroes Worst book.

1099
01:04:50,119 --> 01:04:53,039
Speaker 1: He wrote that. Yeah, he was a comic book illustrator,

1100
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:56,000
so he's also versed in that world. But he also

1101
01:04:56,039 --> 01:04:59,960
wrote a book about rock and roll and the different metaphysics,

1102
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:03,599
cool aspects of certain bands. And on that note, you

1103
01:05:03,719 --> 01:05:07,199
mentioned an actor that Lynch worked with who was in

1104
01:05:07,239 --> 01:05:11,039
the OTO, But David Bowie was a part of Fire

1105
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:14,960
Walks with Me and he was you know, Crowley, and yeah,

1106
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,400
Crowley fan and a part of the Golden Dawn. And

1107
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,400
I just found that kind of interesting that he has

1108
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,400
like the Crowley full spread Oto and Golden Dawn and

1109
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:30,079
Lynch is kind of Crowley and in many ways because Crowley, there's.

1110
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 5: This Crowleying element that for sure absolutely and then Mark

1111
01:05:32,519 --> 01:05:37,719
Frost intentionally does explain that it's explicitly supposed to be Crowley.

1112
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:40,599
And in terms of the mythos of Twin Peaks, that's

1113
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:42,960
that's in the book. There's like there's a whole there's

1114
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,440
a giant picture of Crowley in multiple pages about the

1115
01:05:46,519 --> 01:05:49,920
Crowleyan side of the mythos of Twin Peaks. Yeah, I

1116
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,840
think you're absolutely right there. And then there was another

1117
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,199
day McGowan mentions and I mean I'm not saying Dave

1118
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,000
McGowan's person right on every single thing. I mean he

1119
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,320
was just sort of theorizing, but he mentions also the

1120
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,760
possibility that Dennis Hopper might have also perhaps been either

1121
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,679
involved in or interested in the oto. And then Dean

1122
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:15,079
Stockwell is the guy that's singing. He's pantomiming the Roy

1123
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:18,000
Orbison Blue Velvet song in Blue Velvet, and there's this

1124
01:06:18,039 --> 01:06:21,840
weird sort of fixation that Dennis Hopper, who's playing the

1125
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,599
Crazy Frank character, sort of has this weird obsession with

1126
01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:27,920
Dean Stockwell singing the song. It's supposed to be absurd

1127
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:29,840
and funny. It's not like super gay. I mean, it's

1128
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,119
kind of gay, but it's it's supposed to be funny

1129
01:06:32,119 --> 01:06:36,000
and absurdist because Crazy Frank is so crazy. But Dean

1130
01:06:36,039 --> 01:06:39,679
Stockwell is also recurring David Lynch character. He plays a

1131
01:06:39,719 --> 01:06:43,760
key role in Dune. And then you have even in Dune.

1132
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,920
You know Lynch. I don't know if it's his idea

1133
01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:49,000
or him and other people, but they included the sort

1134
01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:52,880
of cabbalistic idea within Dune that the Weirding Way allows

1135
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,000
you to speak reality into existence, to destroy, to give

1136
01:06:57,039 --> 01:06:59,760
a healing word or a killing word. Are you are

1137
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,400
you a Dune fan? Have you watched?

1138
01:07:01,679 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen the film a while ago, so I

1139
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,199
know about it. I know some of the references.

1140
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that and that that's it's not that's not in

1141
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:12,800
I mean, there's the weirding way as in the novel

1142
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,079
Dan by Frank Herbert. But this idea that like you

1143
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:22,800
can tune it to like to speak a weapon like

1144
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,519
like it's hard. Like you have to watch the movie

1145
01:07:24,599 --> 01:07:27,360
Dune and they like speak a word in it like

1146
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:28,320
we kill people.

1147
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: We've actually talked about this concept in a different context

1148
01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:37,480
as it relates to Mongolian shamanism, and it's a practice

1149
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:41,360
in several different indigenous forms of shamanism where you know,

1150
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:47,000
a practitioner creates a spiritual dart and then sends it

1151
01:07:47,159 --> 01:07:50,880
to their you know, adversary through the astral realm, and

1152
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,840
it could kill them, it could ill you know, strike.

1153
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, that has to be where Lynch is getting that.

1154
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:00,199
Speaker 1: Yeautely well. And they even create like sort of like

1155
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,400
token spiritual darts and they'll carry them with them so

1156
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,679
they'll have like the visualization tool of okay, this is

1157
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:10,280
what it looks like, and each shaman has their own.

1158
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,599
So yeah, it's a it's a very sophisticated kind of

1159
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,159
spiritual warfare, if you will, and in a in a

1160
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:22,680
kind of a rudimentary astral way where Castaneda writes about

1161
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,439
this a little bit. I mean, you could take Castanada's

1162
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,000
work with a big grain of salt, because he became

1163
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:31,119
a full fledged cult leader by the end of his life.

1164
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,680
But yeah, he writes about, you know, this sort of

1165
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,560
astral warfare that the difference Sorcerers.

1166
01:08:37,039 --> 01:08:39,079
Speaker 5: I read one of his books. I forget the title

1167
01:08:39,119 --> 01:08:43,119
of it, but that makes perfect sense. Yeah, and Lynch

1168
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:46,720
could be pulling from If he was interested in Red Crowley,

1169
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:51,039
then he could have pulled from like kabbalistic elements that

1170
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:54,039
Crowley used. But also he could have gotten it out

1171
01:08:54,079 --> 01:08:57,560
of the did you say Tibetan Buddhist or Tibet Yeah.

1172
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: The Mongolian Shamanism, which is very close to Tibetan Buddhism.

1173
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,039
Speaker 5: So yeah, I could have pulled it too either one.

1174
01:09:04,199 --> 01:09:08,039
I mean, the cabalistic idea that you as an individual

1175
01:09:08,199 --> 01:09:15,399
may just can you know, speak beings in life ad

1176
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,760
into existence like the logos, the cabalist ideas that you

1177
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,079
can do the same thing with you know, speaking and

1178
01:09:21,159 --> 01:09:24,680
thus magic words, et cetera. So yeah, I'm sure he's

1179
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,560
pulling from that as well. Sound is really key to

1180
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:33,840
this whole philosophy of you know, vibrations either being geared

1181
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,479
towards the intentionality of life or towards death.

1182
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and we mentioned the significance of place names,

1183
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:45,960
but was there any particular significance to the choice in

1184
01:09:46,119 --> 01:09:49,199
character names, because there are some, I mean, they're not

1185
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:52,439
exactly run of the mill names. They do fit the

1186
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,600
setting in some ways. But but yeah, I wonder if

1187
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,600
there was any thought put into the naming of the.

1188
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,560
Speaker 5: Usually in literature is and obviously, you know, movies are

1189
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,399
also partly literature because they have to be written out

1190
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,720
and they're usually short stories or they're you know, screenplays

1191
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,960
written out. So yeah, I would say probably names are

1192
01:10:13,359 --> 01:10:18,279
generally relevant. I'm trying to think through some of the

1193
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:18,960
the names.

1194
01:10:19,279 --> 01:10:22,319
Speaker 1: Well, is it Judy that is married to Leland and

1195
01:10:22,359 --> 01:10:24,800
they're the parents of Laura Palmer? Is that right?

1196
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,359
Speaker 5: So? And then the deem you haven't seen season three yet.

1197
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,760
When you see season three, Judy is a very important

1198
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:37,399
name because she's identified as jow Day, the Mesopotamian demon

1199
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,680
right entity. So you have a great example there with

1200
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,000
jow Day or Jude.

1201
01:10:42,239 --> 01:10:44,279
Speaker 1: Well, I heard you mentioned that, and it made me

1202
01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:50,319
think of Crowley's relationships with women that often ended in

1203
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,399
very chaotic ways. And you know, Crowley writes about taking

1204
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:59,319
his homosexual lover into the desert and basically starving him

1205
01:10:59,359 --> 01:11:02,960
to the point of it was borderline abuse when you

1206
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,760
read about it. But yeah, he was attempting to, like,

1207
01:11:06,119 --> 01:11:10,199
you know, engage with this Egyptian deity. I forget exactly

1208
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:14,199
which one it was for that particular ritual, but there

1209
01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:17,119
is a Crowley in aspect to the possession of the

1210
01:11:17,159 --> 01:11:18,079
Mother as well.

1211
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, she ends up possessed in a key figure, and

1212
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:29,079
that's because it doesn't really make sense. But there's something

1213
01:11:29,159 --> 01:11:31,600
about the death of the birth of Laura Palmer is

1214
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,640
supposed to signify the into the world, and that the

1215
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:39,479
demonic entity wants to possess Laura and destroy her. It's

1216
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:41,960
it's really kind of out there, and I don't remember

1217
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:44,159
exactly what all the details are at the end of

1218
01:11:44,159 --> 01:11:46,920
season three, but I know that much is true. I'm

1219
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,319
trying to think of other names that might have significance,

1220
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:50,119
you know, I mean.

1221
01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 1: Well, I do find the name Palmer interesting because my

1222
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,560
middle name is Palmer, and I looked into this and

1223
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,359
the term Palmer originally referred to somebody who had take

1224
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,800
holy palm leaves from the Holy Land and bring them

1225
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,039
back to Europe on a on a pilgrimage or you know,

1226
01:12:07,279 --> 01:12:11,199
during the conquest or what were the crusades. Rather they

1227
01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:14,119
would they would be palmers. Basically, they would bring palm

1228
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:17,159
leaves back to Europe for you know, the different what

1229
01:12:17,279 --> 01:12:20,640
is it palm Sunday? Right, So, yeah, there could be

1230
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,560
something there where she's I don't know what, Laurel, Laura,

1231
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,119
maybe Laurel. I mean there's this sort of sort of

1232
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:30,119
virgo quality to that you think of like the Virgin,

1233
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:33,000
a bundle of of grain, things like that.

1234
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I'm just trying to think through characters. Fred Madison,

1235
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,720
I mean he goes mad Yeah, that's obvious.

1236
01:12:49,119 --> 01:12:53,079
Speaker 1: Well, wasn't there a character in what was it one

1237
01:12:53,119 --> 01:12:56,600
of his newer or more recent works that had like

1238
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,399
a Polish is it Inland Empire where there's like a

1239
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:03,079
Polish I named Balza Bar or something like that.

1240
01:13:03,279 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, there may have been. I don't remember the names.

1241
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds there was. You referenced it in your

1242
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,000
stream and yeah, it was like Balza Bar And I

1243
01:13:12,039 --> 01:13:15,000
thought to myself, like, geez, is that a common Polish

1244
01:13:15,119 --> 01:13:18,560
name because it sounds a lot like Basil bub you.

1245
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 5: Know, yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Oh, I know,

1246
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,359
Bob and Alum and Lamb. I wrote a section on that.

1247
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,600
I think those names had significance for sure.

1248
01:13:34,199 --> 01:13:37,239
Speaker 1: Was that well, and what is it? Cooper? Agent Cooper?

1249
01:13:37,319 --> 01:13:40,439
I mean, anytime I hear the name Cooper, I think

1250
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,319
of dB Cooper, the great you know bandit. But there's

1251
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:48,079
also the Baseball Hall of Fame in cooper'stown, which is

1252
01:13:48,119 --> 01:13:53,319
incredibly significant to American culture. I mean, Cooper is definitely

1253
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:56,600
in the toponomical realm of things.

1254
01:13:59,319 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 5: So there the Mark Frost's book makes reference to Jack

1255
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,960
Parsons and Parsons attempts at doing rituals to open up

1256
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:14,239
a portal, and that relates, I think to Crowley's you know,

1257
01:14:14,399 --> 01:14:19,079
idea of Lamb as this gray looking alien entity. And

1258
01:14:19,159 --> 01:14:22,279
I wrote, as we will see this alien imagery becomes

1259
01:14:22,319 --> 01:14:24,680
important when we understand the crolling concept of Lamb, the

1260
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:31,319
interdimensional entity that Crowley contacted. The owls are a big

1261
01:14:31,319 --> 01:14:35,199
part of swim peaks, right, and the owls also relates

1262
01:14:35,279 --> 01:14:37,359
to the esotery and the occult, which I covered in

1263
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:40,840
this chapter. But that's a side issue because what I

1264
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,960
said was many were mystified when in season three, agent

1265
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:49,119
Cooper goes into a purple Mob dimension, he seemed to

1266
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:51,159
be able to float and when he was unable to

1267
01:14:51,159 --> 01:14:53,680
exit the lodge at the appointed time. This is due

1268
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,840
to Bob being unwilling to return late in the latest episode.

1269
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:58,600
When I wrote this the time of season eight or

1270
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:00,840
season three episode eight, we and it's the same thing.

1271
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:05,079
A baphomet looking entity emerged from the atomic void and

1272
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:10,520
the vomit vomiting forth a profane word of ectoplasm. That's

1273
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,279
the demon that comes to the Trinity Sands explosion. And

1274
01:15:14,319 --> 01:15:18,039
then we see a giving birth to a new child,

1275
01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:22,560
Bob amidst a bunch of moonchild eggs. This confusing imagery

1276
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,399
could likely come from the works of Kenneth Grant. One

1277
01:15:26,399 --> 01:15:29,600
of the most relevant of his works is Beyond the

1278
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:35,159
Mob Zone, which describes the astral plane. Grant describes that

1279
01:15:35,359 --> 01:15:38,279
Lamb is the equivalent of the Eastern chant of Alm,

1280
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:42,800
and this is again three letters very similar to Bob.

1281
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:49,640
So lamb olm Bob. That's all the according to Kenneth Grant,

1282
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,640
who's they was they like the had so the Oto

1283
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:54,880
had a split. There's like the US branch, and then

1284
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,199
there's the British Typhoni and Oto, and Kenneth Grant was

1285
01:15:59,279 --> 01:16:01,199
kind of the guy that wrote all the books for

1286
01:16:01,239 --> 01:16:07,439
the UK's typhony and Oto. And he says that Set

1287
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:09,680
is the seat or the throne of Isis, and he

1288
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:14,840
sometimes represented as the goddess Typhon, who is who hold

1289
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,600
before her the ank of existence. Set is the projection

1290
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,800
of the child of Typhon, the crown and conquering child

1291
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:25,399
typified by Lamb. Liber Al prophesied the advent on Earth

1292
01:16:25,399 --> 01:16:29,399
of Lamb, and Lamb is pictured as a crown headdress

1293
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,159
a dwarf deity. He is the God of the New Aon,

1294
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:36,279
the God in Amenta, or the hidden God, the headless

1295
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:39,680
god of the Gnostics, also equivalent to Sammel. We've heard

1296
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,680
the name of Lamb, which applies to man's total awareness,

1297
01:16:43,239 --> 01:16:47,800
divided into three stages lam L for dream, A for awake,

1298
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:52,640
site M for deep sleep. Anyone who has successfully used

1299
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,520
the formula will know that the egg of Lamb serves

1300
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,880
as a space capsule which conveys the traveler to the

1301
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,399
desired plane or to mention. And he's talking about in

1302
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,359
the astral realm. So there is your dwarf God, the

1303
01:17:04,399 --> 01:17:08,079
midgetman from another place, which Kenneth Grant proceeds to connect

1304
01:17:08,119 --> 01:17:12,479
these ideas as an entrance into the mob zone, which

1305
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,600
is exactly where Cooper ends up in season three.

1306
01:17:16,239 --> 01:17:16,399
Speaker 7: Mm.

1307
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is the oh you.

1308
01:17:20,079 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 5: Said, Laurel, she's the crown prom Queen of Twin Peaks, Laura,

1309
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:26,680
the crown one.

1310
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1311
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:29,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't even remember I wrote that.

1312
01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:34,560
Speaker 1: You go well, and it seems like the the climax too,

1313
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,239
of a shamanic journey to to go into the other

1314
01:17:38,359 --> 01:17:40,840
realm to reach that visionaire exactly.

1315
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:42,800
Speaker 5: That's exactly what is trying to do.

1316
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,119
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to see the many layers of that through

1317
01:17:48,199 --> 01:17:52,159
Lynch's work. You talk about is it Blue Velvet Or

1318
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,840
or Wild at Heart? Maholland Drive and Inland Empire?

1319
01:17:55,960 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 5: Are the Hollywood trilogy a loose Hollywood?

1320
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:05,319
Speaker 1: Yeah? And it's interesting because the mk Ultra theme is

1321
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,479
very shamanic because it's all about trauma, and I mean,

1322
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:12,399
you go into shamanism and they're scarring the face, you know,

1323
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:17,119
putting hooks in their breasts and all sorts of incredibly traumatic,

1324
01:18:17,239 --> 01:18:21,319
painful things to you know, reach these states, and you

1325
01:18:21,319 --> 01:18:25,399
know when you see it in the film, you realize like, Wow,

1326
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:31,279
there's this you know, real deep spiritual energy here. But

1327
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,399
to the average person, maybe it just seems like you said,

1328
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,359
you know, it's very funny, or you know, if someone

1329
01:18:37,359 --> 01:18:39,640
has a particularly dark sense of humor, or is it

1330
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,239
very sensitive to violence or or graphic sex, they might

1331
01:18:43,319 --> 01:18:46,439
just think, oh, that's kind of crazy. But you know,

1332
01:18:47,359 --> 01:18:50,239
I have this sense that Lynch is trying to like

1333
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,560
take the audience into a certain state of mind with

1334
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:57,239
every step of his film. Is it fair to say that,

1335
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:02,239
you know, people who watch Lynch's work are initiated unknowingly.

1336
01:19:04,079 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 5: That could be an element. I think you see that

1337
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,760
with Kubrick. I argued that with the Eyeswade Hut chapter

1338
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,319
in Kubrick that its initiation. Maybe with two thousand and

1339
01:19:12,359 --> 01:19:15,199
one as well. And yeah, if David Lynch sees the

1340
01:19:15,239 --> 01:19:19,920
director or the artist, director, musician as a shaman putting

1341
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,600
out his creation, his will and intention into the world,

1342
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:28,479
then that's exactly what magic or the shamanic idea is

1343
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,920
intended to do, right, to be the bridge between these

1344
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,479
two worlds. And that's why Lynch is always characterizing himself

1345
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,039
as the person who goes into the inner subconscious realm

1346
01:19:38,039 --> 01:19:44,039
and transnt meditation and pulls the ideas from that space,

1347
01:19:44,279 --> 01:19:47,039
which is a kind of liminal space, which is also

1348
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:52,640
perhaps the astral realm, perhaps the unconscious, the realm of potential, whatever,

1349
01:19:53,239 --> 01:19:57,000
and then creates a world and puts that created world

1350
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,880
into this world. That's the job of shaman is to

1351
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,880
be that bridge and to affect the magic. I mean,

1352
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,319
I'm saying that's that's the magician type perspective. So yeah,

1353
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:10,279
I think that's what's going on for sure with Lynch,

1354
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:13,479
and that's how he sees himself. And yeah, he probably

1355
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,680
would say, I don't know, I'm just speculating. He probably

1356
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,399
would say that it is kind of a initiation for

1357
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:19,239
the audience too.

1358
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,199
Speaker 1: Mm. And I don't know this. Maybe you know this,

1359
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:27,159
but was he working on anything prior to his death?

1360
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:30,279
And do you think we'll see anything post mortem release

1361
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:31,680
of his body of work?

1362
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 5: A good question? You know what, I got so busy

1363
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:35,800
with the kind of other stuff that I was doing

1364
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,399
that I kind of didn't expect David Lynch to pass away.

1365
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:44,079
I wouldn't. I wouldn't kind of that, so I don't

1366
01:20:44,119 --> 01:20:46,199
know kind of what he was up to. I was

1367
01:20:46,239 --> 01:20:49,199
listening to the You know, I followed the music stuff.

1368
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:51,359
I liked the stuff he was doing with Crystal Bell.

1369
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:54,479
I like, I bought all that stuff, But I hadn't

1370
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,560
even kept up, like with what he was doing in

1371
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,239
the last few years. So I don't I don't even know.

1372
01:20:58,279 --> 01:20:59,039
It's a good question.

1373
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 1: Well, obviously, David Lynch is just one aspect of your work.

1374
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,159
You know, how the your you know, esoteric Hollywood trilogy,

1375
01:21:09,239 --> 01:21:10,640
not his Hollywood Trilogy.

1376
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:12,640
Speaker 5: Well, he made it into all three. So he's probably

1377
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:14,760
the only director that's gonna be because I'm gonna have

1378
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:15,640
lost highway.

1379
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask you, like next to

1380
01:21:18,039 --> 01:21:21,359
him and maybe Stanley Kubrick, like, is there any other

1381
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,119
director you can think of that you've written about to

1382
01:21:24,199 --> 01:21:27,319
this length or or have has made as much of

1383
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:29,640
an impact even if you didn't write about him as much.

1384
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,239
Speaker 5: Well, Kubrick was like eighty pages in the first one,

1385
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,119
so yeah, you're right about that, and then Lynch was

1386
01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:38,119
in Part one, end Part two, and then he'll be

1387
01:21:38,159 --> 01:21:42,880
in Part three. So he's definitely up there with Kubrick

1388
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:47,800
for most written about for sure. So yeah, I can't

1389
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,079
think of anyone anyone else that would even be close

1390
01:21:51,159 --> 01:21:54,800
I don't even think, I mean, Hitchcock is He's not

1391
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:59,159
even a big part of He's like two chapters in

1392
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:00,800
this first one.

1393
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 1: I think, well, and I think Hitchcock's impact was in

1394
01:22:05,039 --> 01:22:08,439
a different lane. But it is interesting that, you know,

1395
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:15,840
Lynch Kubrick, they sort of are two geniuses in this

1396
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:20,319
very small space of time. As we started our conversation,

1397
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,319
we're saying, this is kind of we're seeing an end

1398
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:27,079
of big budget Hollywood and a move towards low budget

1399
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:30,199
streaming whatever we're going to call that, you know, and

1400
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:35,920
again like what's next? Who could follow something like that up?

1401
01:22:36,359 --> 01:22:39,600
It's very you know, it's obviously I don't think you

1402
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,119
have an answer, but I'd love to know your thoughts.

1403
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's one of the things David Lanch

1404
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,560
said towards the end of his life was that he

1405
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,399
doesn't think that Hollywood will ever have a place for

1406
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,800
what he was again, so there won't be a place

1407
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,159
for that kind of a director, you know, trying to

1408
01:22:58,199 --> 01:23:01,239
do his own stuff and having final cut and all that.

1409
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:06,319
And that's probably true, and probably because as Jamie Kennedy says,

1410
01:23:06,399 --> 01:23:08,479
you know, Hollywood's pretty much going away the way that

1411
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:12,119
it was it's just part of the legacy system, just

1412
01:23:12,279 --> 01:23:16,079
like legacy media, legacy education, all those things are kind

1413
01:23:16,079 --> 01:23:19,319
of dying away. So you know what will emerge, what

1414
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,359
new forms can come about that remains to be seen.

1415
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,640
Hopefully we can have, you know, just if we have

1416
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,439
a lot more decentralization of the Internet, just like we

1417
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,560
think about bitcoin and money as decentralized. Now, if we

1418
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,399
think about maybe the arts getting more and more decentralized,

1419
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:40,399
maybe we can have you know, successful independent stuff. You know,

1420
01:23:41,119 --> 01:23:43,800
maybe wealthy people start putting money into this kind of stuff.

1421
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,479
I don't know, and then you can have the au

1422
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:49,520
tour director coming making a comeback. But it'll have to

1423
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:54,319
be something independent and somehow with money behind independent stuff,

1424
01:23:55,359 --> 01:23:56,199
which is possible.

1425
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,680
Speaker 1: Well, and I mean with the Internet, is there's an

1426
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,680
open talent pool for people who you know.

1427
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 5: That's what I'm getting out there. I don't know how

1428
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,119
to work, but maybe something like that.

1429
01:24:07,399 --> 01:24:10,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't imagine that there will be a

1430
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:15,640
follow up esoteric YouTube or anything like that, but who knows.

1431
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,359
Maybe mister Beast and his peers will give you enough

1432
01:24:19,399 --> 01:24:21,960
to write about. But I don't really think that's your

1433
01:24:22,039 --> 01:24:25,720
interest though. I doubt that you're watching mister Beasts very often.

1434
01:24:27,359 --> 01:24:29,640
Speaker 5: I've not really watched mister Best. I mean I know

1435
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,840
of him, but I don't. I know, it's like you know,

1436
01:24:32,119 --> 01:24:35,159
game show type challenge stuff.

1437
01:24:35,239 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: It's kid minded stuff. It's no adults that are saying

1438
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:43,079
or watching mister Beast. But it does seem like that's

1439
01:24:43,079 --> 01:24:45,960
where the only money in Hollywood is is in kids

1440
01:24:46,079 --> 01:24:50,760
entered kids movies for that matter. I mean they try,

1441
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,520
there's always that sort of subtle kind of oh well,

1442
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,960
we want to make this for the kids, but we

1443
01:24:56,119 --> 01:24:58,880
got to entertain the adults as well. And I feel

1444
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:02,720
like there's a certain sector of of that that you

1445
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:04,800
can just brush off as all they're just trying to

1446
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:09,720
make adults laugh. But do you think that kids films

1447
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,760
have have because of you know, all the money that's

1448
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:16,000
going into that, you know, those films now, like the

1449
01:25:16,119 --> 01:25:20,079
brunt of the symbolism is now being shoved into those

1450
01:25:20,119 --> 01:25:22,920
films rather than maybe how it was in the past.

1451
01:25:25,079 --> 01:25:28,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe, you know. I don't. I don't. I honestly

1452
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,279
don't see many kids things, so I don't even know.

1453
01:25:32,279 --> 01:25:34,560
I mean I've seen like some cartoons and you know,

1454
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,680
stuff that's just like Crowley symbolism and satanic stuff in

1455
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,000
the cartoons like from Disney and whatnot in the last

1456
01:25:40,079 --> 01:25:42,520
you know, ten years. But I don't really see a

1457
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:45,119
lot of those kid films, so I don't know. I

1458
01:25:45,119 --> 01:25:48,560
imagine everything's just baced around, you know, profit motives, and

1459
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:51,560
hence they rely, like you said, on a lot of

1460
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:56,359
children's entertainment and rebooting stuff and sequels and prequels. They

1461
01:25:56,359 --> 01:26:00,319
don't really nobody really seems interested in anything like you know,

1462
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,239
new stuff. It's it's really it's a really weird time.

1463
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:06,439
I don't even know.

1464
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:10,199
Speaker 1: I well, in this atmosphere, I think, you know, things

1465
01:26:10,319 --> 01:26:14,560
like obviously podcasting, which I'm not saying that to pat

1466
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:16,760
ourselves on the back, but you look at the way

1467
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:21,159
podcasting has kind of taken over what was once mainstream media.

1468
01:26:21,159 --> 01:26:24,279
I mean, look at someone like Shane Gillis, Joe Rogan,

1469
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,760
Kill Tony and all of the other comedians. I mean,

1470
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:30,800
you've worked with Sam Hyde, and I think everything that

1471
01:26:31,239 --> 01:26:35,199
he's done since leaving Adult Swim to like keep that

1472
01:26:35,319 --> 01:26:41,359
brand going and remain authentic and create very interesting, hilarious content.

1473
01:26:42,039 --> 01:26:45,479
It's it's incredible. So to talk about the the talent

1474
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:49,840
pool that exists I mean seems like if we're gonna

1475
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:53,159
look at someone like Shane Gillis, albeit you know, he's

1476
01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:58,920
pretty controversial connected to conspiracy podcast war Mode, Like these

1477
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,880
things are starting to be a little bit more mainstream,

1478
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,840
would you say, right, Like, it seems like we're heading

1479
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:14,039
towards maybe the left becoming you know, abysmal, whereas the center,

1480
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:18,520
maybe even the right will start to become funded more

1481
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,359
because a lot of this comedy it's being picked up

1482
01:27:21,359 --> 01:27:24,880
by the right, but it's not it's centered. It's just

1483
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,720
a reaction to how crazy the left has been.

1484
01:27:29,399 --> 01:27:33,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're right about comedy having some success,

1485
01:27:33,239 --> 01:27:37,680
definitely moving in that direction. But you don't see comedy

1486
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,399
movies anymore, you know what I mean. Like in the

1487
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:42,880
nineties and the two thousands, I mean there was just

1488
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,760
comedy movies all the time, and then that kind of

1489
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:48,680
like the more we saw the woke stuff, the more

1490
01:27:49,319 --> 01:27:52,760
comedy movies are pretty much just gone. Very rarely do

1491
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:54,800
I see comedy movies that I think are funny that

1492
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:56,880
I enjoy. I did like Y two K, I like

1493
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,680
Communey's stuff. I think his his stuff's pretty good. But

1494
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:05,239
that's you and far between. So yeah, I think the

1495
01:28:05,359 --> 01:28:08,399
comedians were kind of just forced into the podcast domain

1496
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,880
and you know, obviously still doing stand up but for

1497
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,840
the but for the unique art form that is film,

1498
01:28:16,319 --> 01:28:20,399
which is a combination of so many other art forms.

1499
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:24,840
And that's what's so amazing about movies is that it's music,

1500
01:28:25,079 --> 01:28:32,720
it's writing, it's acting, it's set design, it's visual cinematography, photography,

1501
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:36,359
playing with time through editing. I mean, it's all these

1502
01:28:36,399 --> 01:28:38,560
things into one art form, which I think makes it

1503
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:44,119
so powerful, Like that is something that needs to be

1504
01:28:44,199 --> 01:28:48,000
recovered somehow, and that the problem is that that takes money,

1505
01:28:48,039 --> 01:28:50,960
and it takes a lot of people, and you know,

1506
01:28:51,319 --> 01:28:55,239
the right wing and even the center or whatever, they

1507
01:28:55,239 --> 01:28:58,039
didn't focus on the arts. They just sort of let

1508
01:28:58,399 --> 01:29:00,760
the left have all of the art for the last

1509
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:05,239
fifty hundred years. And that's a that was a huge

1510
01:29:05,239 --> 01:29:10,520
mistake because then the left can use the radical left especially,

1511
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:16,640
can try to force everybody into their idea of what

1512
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,920
the arts are, which is activism and insanity, and then

1513
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:26,000
you get totally woke arts, which shuts down creativity and

1514
01:29:26,039 --> 01:29:29,720
it destroys it. So I don't know, again, somebody there,

1515
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:32,000
there'll have to be some new forms that emerge. I

1516
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,119
don't know how they'll if they'll be independent production studios funded.

1517
01:29:35,159 --> 01:29:38,520
Maybe Mel Gibson gives, I don't know, one hundred million

1518
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:43,359
dollars to some production company that's not bound by Woke, don't.

1519
01:29:43,399 --> 01:29:46,000
I'm just throwing ideas, you know, and then they start making,

1520
01:29:46,079 --> 01:29:48,600
you know, I mean there's already Icon films, which is

1521
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,199
his thing. But I'm saying, like, you know, where's the

1522
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:58,000
full production films that are not these corny like pure

1523
01:29:58,119 --> 01:30:01,479
flicks or I've never I've never seen a Daily Wire movie.

1524
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:02,920
I don't know. Maybe they're good, I don't know, but

1525
01:30:03,079 --> 01:30:05,399
like I don't know, it's just something more than that,

1526
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:07,319
do you know what I mean?

1527
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely no. And you make a great point. I mean,

1528
01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:13,720
growing up, I was born in ninety four, so I

1529
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:16,399
think I'm a little bit younger than you. But growing up,

1530
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:18,920
I'm sure this was similar for you. Like the whole

1531
01:30:19,399 --> 01:30:22,279
like language that people would speak to relate to each

1532
01:30:22,319 --> 01:30:25,960
other was through movies, like dumb comedy movies. Wheneverone would

1533
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,039
come out, everybody would be talking about it.

1534
01:30:28,079 --> 01:30:28,239
Speaker 10: You know.

1535
01:30:28,279 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 1: That was how a lot of people related to one

1536
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,279
another is through you know, what movies they liked and

1537
01:30:34,319 --> 01:30:38,279
the fact that that has, you know, disappeared. I think

1538
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:42,079
video games have definitely played a role in that, especially,

1539
01:30:42,399 --> 01:30:45,239
you know, because we have this generation gap where now

1540
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:50,279
there's a huge, you know, missing link between the people

1541
01:30:50,279 --> 01:30:54,079
who loved movies and now there's like my generation seems

1542
01:30:54,119 --> 01:30:55,680
like is obsessed with video games.

1543
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think you're like, the younger you get,

1544
01:30:58,079 --> 01:31:01,439
the less they care about movies, which to me is

1545
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:04,079
a huge generation gap difference.

1546
01:31:04,359 --> 01:31:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1547
01:31:05,239 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not blaming anybody, understand, Like, if you're

1548
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,359
raised with playing video games, that's gonna be what's normal

1549
01:31:10,399 --> 01:31:12,680
to you. And if you weren't, you know, if you

1550
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,279
didn't grow up watching all these eighties and nineties movies,

1551
01:31:15,319 --> 01:31:17,119
then yeah, it's going to be a different experience for you.

1552
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:20,720
But I don't know, I just I don't want to

1553
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:23,199
see the art form go away or turn into something

1554
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:27,279
weird that's not movies, you know what I mean. I mean,

1555
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:29,319
there's always a trade off, right, there was a lot

1556
01:31:29,319 --> 01:31:33,560
of negatives to the older, legacy Hollywood studio system, but

1557
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,039
there's also things that we're going to lose that will

1558
01:31:37,039 --> 01:31:40,760
be unfortunate. I'm glad to have podcasts and you know,

1559
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:43,199
comedians and everybody being able to do podcasts. But I

1560
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:46,439
mean that's not the sum totality of like the arts,

1561
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:48,920
you know what I mean. I mean podcasts are great,

1562
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:50,920
but I mean they're not the highest art form. You know,

1563
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,239
podcasts are really just the new talk radio, which is

1564
01:31:54,359 --> 01:31:58,880
which is fine. But you know, humans want stories. They

1565
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:03,720
want Apocalypto and Any Jones and Star Wars like that's

1566
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:07,079
what humans like. They like stories, not just you know,

1567
01:32:07,079 --> 01:32:09,279
people yapping. And I'm not against people yopping. I do

1568
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:13,960
internet yupping all day long for a job, so it's great.

1569
01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:20,880
But you know, film movies are just an amazing art

1570
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:22,199
form like no other art form.

1571
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm with you. This might sound like a Vinyl hipster

1572
01:32:27,079 --> 01:32:32,079
type of take, but I wonder if the digital you know,

1573
01:32:32,279 --> 01:32:37,520
technology that has replaced that analog reality of what film was.

1574
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:40,920
I don't know how much you know, reels are still

1575
01:32:41,319 --> 01:32:45,359
involved in modern filmmaking, but if they are digitizing everything,

1576
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:49,000
I wonder how much that takes away from the quality

1577
01:32:49,039 --> 01:32:51,720
and the effect of some of the films. I mean,

1578
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:55,560
obviously you can use s effects to make a film,

1579
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,199
have a filter or what have you, but there's a

1580
01:32:58,199 --> 01:33:01,079
certain quality to like these old lenses. I mean, that's

1581
01:33:01,119 --> 01:33:05,079
why Kubrick went and helped NASA out so intensely, just

1582
01:33:05,119 --> 01:33:08,439
so he can film bar Linden, which barely anyone even

1583
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,399
cares about now, you know, I mean, right, And it's

1584
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,159
it's like, it's it's kind of incredible to think that

1585
01:33:14,319 --> 01:33:18,479
this camera technology was so vital to the process of

1586
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:19,439
this storytelling.

1587
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:21,239
Speaker 5: Like there's a real and that's one of those trade

1588
01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:24,279
offs is you know, there's never going to be that

1589
01:33:24,399 --> 01:33:27,439
look and you can't really even reproduce it. But you know,

1590
01:33:28,079 --> 01:33:29,880
I mean, David Lynch talked about this too, because he

1591
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:34,399
filmed in an Empire on a small Sony digital camp

1592
01:33:35,239 --> 01:33:38,119
and he was he loved the idea because for him,

1593
01:33:38,119 --> 01:33:40,640
it made it a lot easier than having to do

1594
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:44,079
everything with, you know, the older system. So again, there's

1595
01:33:44,079 --> 01:33:47,720
always trade offs, there's always pros and cons. So yeah,

1596
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:49,399
I don't know, I'm not I don't know a whole

1597
01:33:49,399 --> 01:33:51,319
lot about cameras in tech and all that, so I

1598
01:33:51,319 --> 01:33:54,520
can't really speak to it. But you know, it's kind

1599
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,279
of like old synthesizers, like we saw We went and

1600
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:01,000
spoke at a horror convention and I did some stand

1601
01:34:01,119 --> 01:34:03,000
up and stuff there, which was was a lot of fun,

1602
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:07,760
some comedic stuff, and gave a lecture and we met

1603
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,800
Alan Howarth, who's the He did a concert too. He

1604
01:34:11,079 --> 01:34:16,840
did a live performance of all the eighties John Carpenter stuff.

1605
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,880
So he wrote all the eighties John Carpenter music themes

1606
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:23,800
for like Prince of Darkness, they Live the thing, you know,

1607
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:26,880
all those John Carpenter movies. And you know, we were

1608
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:30,000
talking about synthesizers and sounds and all this, and we

1609
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:33,079
were talking about how, like, I mean, computers can mimic it,

1610
01:34:33,159 --> 01:34:35,239
but I don't know, there's just something about like this,

1611
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,159
even old synthesizers, which you would think, well, but isn't

1612
01:34:38,159 --> 01:34:41,880
that technological? Well yeah, but like old moods and old synthesizers,

1613
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:44,000
like they have a unique sound that I'm not sure

1614
01:34:44,279 --> 01:34:47,439
computers can really. Oh yeah, replicate.

1615
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:50,720
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you one hundred percent. I mean you

1616
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:54,359
can even get into the occult realm of led Zeppelin,

1617
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:59,159
you know, doing enchantments over their master tapes, right, and

1618
01:34:59,199 --> 01:35:03,319
then every single copy of it had that spell cast

1619
01:35:03,399 --> 01:35:05,880
into it. I mean, I don't know how true that is,

1620
01:35:06,079 --> 01:35:10,680
might just be rumored, but I was it. Dave McCowan

1621
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:14,039
who wrote about that originally somebody wrote about that originally

1622
01:35:14,119 --> 01:35:14,680
that there was.

1623
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,520
Speaker 5: I don't know who there is. I mean, that's kind

1624
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:19,039
of been a story going around. I don't know who

1625
01:35:19,079 --> 01:35:21,560
the original Maybe for its Springmeer talked about it. I

1626
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:21,920
don't know.

1627
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:26,199
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's a reputable source. But interesting. Well, and

1628
01:35:26,239 --> 01:35:28,760
on that note, you know, getting out on the road

1629
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,760
and whatnot. It's a new year. Do you have anything

1630
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:35,439
planned for twenty twenty five anywhere that the audience can

1631
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,840
check you out or follow up with you? So you

1632
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:38,880
doing some stand up?

1633
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:42,359
Speaker 5: Well, every live event we do, we usually include some

1634
01:35:43,359 --> 01:35:45,880
forms of me doing comedic stuff. That might be me

1635
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,439
doing my cringe course songs. Live, I usually make front

1636
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,359
of the crowd quite a bit, so I do some

1637
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:52,560
crowd work and all that kind of stuff. But yeah,

1638
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,039
we will always include that in there. But we do

1639
01:35:55,119 --> 01:35:58,800
also lectures and talks and book signings and all that.

1640
01:35:59,399 --> 01:36:02,399
This last one that we did and Tampa was the

1641
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:04,319
only one that I have scheduled for this year. So

1642
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:08,000
now there's not any upcoming live events. And the main

1643
01:36:08,039 --> 01:36:11,079
reason I haven't planned any new live events for myself

1644
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,680
is because I'm trying to finish us through Hollywood three

1645
01:36:14,159 --> 01:36:17,399
and live events take a lot of planning and effort,

1646
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:19,399
and it's a lot of extra work, so I just

1647
01:36:19,399 --> 01:36:21,920
haven't had the time to do the planning for a

1648
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:26,359
new live event. But probably when sother Plywood three gets complete,

1649
01:36:26,399 --> 01:36:28,359
we'll schedule some more live events for sure.

1650
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:32,560
Speaker 1: Right on, Well, I look forward to Esoteric Hollywood three.

1651
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:35,600
You said it should be out this year in a

1652
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:39,720
couple months indefinite release, but folks can look forward to

1653
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:44,000
that and follow up with you Jay's analysis. You're on YouTube,

1654
01:36:44,079 --> 01:36:47,079
your own website. All that is linked in the description

1655
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:51,319
and people can support you directly through your website and

1656
01:36:51,399 --> 01:36:54,319
get access to premium content. Is there anything else that

1657
01:36:54,359 --> 01:36:57,079
you'd like to plug or leave the audience with before

1658
01:36:57,119 --> 01:36:57,800
we wrap up?

1659
01:36:58,239 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 5: Now you can just subscribe to the side, or I

1660
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:03,640
got all my monetization and YouTube stuff back so people

1661
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:05,840
can join on the on the YouTube channel as well

1662
01:37:06,279 --> 01:37:08,600
to get members content. But yeah, there's all that, And

1663
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:10,439
then you can still get signed copies of the books

1664
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:13,520
at the website and the shop section of my website.

1665
01:37:14,039 --> 01:37:16,199
Every book is signed so you don't have to request it.

1666
01:37:16,399 --> 01:37:21,359
And then every Friday fourth Hour, Lord Boldemort.

1667
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:24,520
Speaker 1: Right now, you have any hope that YouTube is going

1668
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:29,399
to follow in the Trump's lead that maybe we'll see

1669
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:33,279
an end to this censorship that we've seen for so

1670
01:37:33,359 --> 01:37:36,319
many years. I mean, there is this executive order that

1671
01:37:36,399 --> 01:37:40,920
implies social media companies can't infringe on people's right to

1672
01:37:41,039 --> 01:37:44,520
free speech. But then they also, I guess, have this loophole.

1673
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:46,920
We don't have a right to don't You don't have

1674
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:50,239
a right to be platform to a certain amount of people.

1675
01:37:50,319 --> 01:37:55,920
Right that doesn't necessarily, you know, conflate or infringe on

1676
01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,840
your free speech if we don't platform you. So do

1677
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:02,039
you think YouTube is just going to continue business as

1678
01:38:02,119 --> 01:38:04,279
usual or do you have any hope for you know,

1679
01:38:04,359 --> 01:38:04,920
good question.

1680
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:07,319
Speaker 5: I mean, I think maybe they wanted to bring that

1681
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:09,960
they wanted to. My first thought was maybe because of

1682
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:12,680
the TikTok band when that happened, that maybe YouTube was

1683
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:15,079
thinking we'll lighten up and bring more people back. But

1684
01:38:15,159 --> 01:38:18,520
then supposedly TikTok was just getting bought by some other thing.

1685
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,199
I don't know what's going on with that, So I

1686
01:38:20,199 --> 01:38:24,720
don't know if that's why. I know that Sargon got remonetized,

1687
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:27,319
I got remonetized, So maybe they were just sort of

1688
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,760
loosening up. I don't know. I have no idea. What's

1689
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:32,359
what's going to happen there? It's a good question.

1690
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope it does. You know, my channel has

1691
01:38:36,279 --> 01:38:40,000
been spared to some extent. I am monetized, but several

1692
01:38:40,039 --> 01:38:43,640
of my podcast episodes have been taken down. My interview

1693
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:48,520
with David Ike was hot led molten fire. I published

1694
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:52,079
it and immediately burned right through the internet and was deleted.

1695
01:38:52,199 --> 01:38:56,199
So yeah, it's it's incredible what YouTube has done. But

1696
01:38:56,239 --> 01:39:00,000
hopefully they bought an old emperor Trump. I'm I'm happy

1697
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:03,960
that he's at least changing some things and and maha

1698
01:39:04,079 --> 01:39:07,000
to sounds good. I'm on board with that as well.

1699
01:39:07,079 --> 01:39:10,319
Speaker 5: So well, I'm not sure why they remonetized me. I

1700
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:13,399
don't I didn't expect it. I mean I did. I

1701
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:17,399
moved a lot of other maybe somewhat spicy podcasts that

1702
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:19,159
have been up that were even weren't even they weren't

1703
01:39:19,199 --> 01:39:21,439
even public. There were some that were just unlisted, and

1704
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,960
I thought maybe I should just remove some of those

1705
01:39:25,039 --> 01:39:29,079
to some other platform. And then, yeah, they remonetized me.

1706
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:33,039
What I didn't expect it. Well, I'm glad that five

1707
01:39:33,119 --> 01:39:35,279
years demonetized and then they let me back.

1708
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:37,800
Speaker 1: So I'm glad to see it. You deserve the support,

1709
01:39:38,039 --> 01:39:40,920
and yeah, I encourage you to do a follow up

1710
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:44,000
on the Spies of Hollywood. I think that's an excellent idea.

1711
01:39:44,119 --> 01:39:45,720
You mentioned that at the beginning.

1712
01:39:45,399 --> 01:39:47,520
Speaker 5: To do that. Yeah, yeah, it would be a good book.

1713
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:51,319
Speaker 1: Would Robert de Niro qualify, do you think? Or is

1714
01:39:51,359 --> 01:39:52,720
he just in the pedy?

1715
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 5: You know, probably some of the characters like him would

1716
01:39:55,880 --> 01:40:00,279
be in that possible category. Yeah. We've got some role

1717
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:05,600
that are definite spies. Julia Child, Sterling Hayden went to

1718
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:08,960
become a spy for the OSS, Jimmy Stewart spy for

1719
01:40:09,039 --> 01:40:14,600
the PI, Kerry Grant spied for OSS in Hollywood. I mean,

1720
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:18,479
so you've got plenty of people who are definites, and

1721
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,840
you've got a category of like very likely like a

1722
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:24,680
Ben Affleck type of character, maybe a Robert de Niro

1723
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:28,520
in there. And we know they're at least working with

1724
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:31,680
the Angelia and Jolie. They've at least worked with the

1725
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:35,239
CIA at a very high level on many, many, many films.

1726
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:42,479
Speaker 1: So there's a context of training, yeah, research.

1727
01:40:42,319 --> 01:40:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, Palm Cruise maybe. Yeah.

1728
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, I look forward to that. I definitely encourage

1729
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:51,560
you to write about that. I think that'd be a hit.

1730
01:40:51,720 --> 01:40:54,119
And yeah, man, thank you for spending the time with

1731
01:40:54,199 --> 01:40:58,159
us folks. Follow up with Jay. He is very active

1732
01:40:58,279 --> 01:41:03,119
on his YouTube channel and I am anticipating another solid

1733
01:41:03,159 --> 01:41:06,399
book in Esoteric Hollywood three, so we're all looking forward

1734
01:41:06,439 --> 01:41:09,920
to that. Jay, good luck with the final steps and

1735
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,840
until next episode, Thank you for listening and immerse yourself

1736
01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:17,720
in the moment wherever you are in the now. All right,

1737
01:41:18,039 --> 01:41:20,920
And that was our interview with Jay Dyer. I gotta

1738
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:23,520
say I really like Jay's style. I like his work.

1739
01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:26,600
He's got a lot of interesting content on his YouTube

1740
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:31,319
and he is better known now for his debates. I

1741
01:41:31,359 --> 01:41:33,720
think that's a big part of what he does on

1742
01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:37,800
YouTube if you're interested in his thoughts on religion. He

1743
01:41:38,159 --> 01:41:43,680
is an orthodox Christian and very interesting content on his

1744
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:47,800
YouTube channel. But he also gets into the pop culture

1745
01:41:48,079 --> 01:41:52,199
movie symbolism stuff as well, and you can find all

1746
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:56,680
of that on his channel. Just search Jaydiyer or go

1747
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:59,960
to YouTube dot com slash Jaydyer. You can also go

1748
01:42:00,159 --> 01:42:04,800
to his website, Jay'sanalysis dot com. Big shout out to

1749
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:08,920
Jay Dyer for joining me on the show. Very good timing.

1750
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,560
We just had Nick Roache fort Jay Dyer is kind

1751
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:16,079
of in the MD universe. He has been helping Sam

1752
01:42:16,159 --> 01:42:20,960
Hyde write. He's also a comedian and we just had

1753
01:42:21,039 --> 01:42:23,680
Nick Rochefort on the other podcast. I work on Low

1754
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:28,439
Value Mail. So if you so, if if, if, if

1755
01:42:28,520 --> 01:42:31,279
you so, I don't know why this is so difficult.

1756
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:35,880
So if you would like to listen to that episode,

1757
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,560
it is on the Low Value Mail YouTube channel, and

1758
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:42,399
call in to the Low Value Mail podcast live every

1759
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:45,920
Monday at nine pm Eastern Time. When you call in,

1760
01:42:46,079 --> 01:42:49,600
I answer the phones. I am behind the scenes producing

1761
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:53,560
the show. Yeah, so that's right. I produce Danny Pouloschuck's

1762
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:57,359
Low Value Mail and Sam Tripoli's Tinfoil Hat. I am

1763
01:42:57,399 --> 01:43:01,560
the booker for that show. I love working in podcasts.

1764
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:04,079
Big shout out to Sam Tripoli. He is the best.

1765
01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:07,800
And he's going to be in New Jersey this weekend

1766
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:11,000
at the Dojo of Comedy in Morris Plains, New Jersey.

1767
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:14,439
If you were within a couple hours drive of the area,

1768
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:17,880
or you live in New Jersey, I highly recommend you

1769
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:22,079
come out to the show, even if just to meet me.

1770
01:43:23,399 --> 01:43:27,600
If you don't buy tickets, you can still have food

1771
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:32,119
at the wonderful restaurant there it is a full restaurant

1772
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:36,479
and the comedy club is also part of the restaurant,

1773
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:41,319
so very cool stuff. The Dojo of Comedy Morris Plains,

1774
01:43:41,359 --> 01:43:44,239
New Jersey. I will be there hanging out with Sam,

1775
01:43:44,279 --> 01:43:46,199
hanging out with the people, and I hope to see

1776
01:43:46,199 --> 01:43:49,640
you there. So with that, folks, big shout out to

1777
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:52,760
Jay Dyer. Thank you to everybody who has supported the

1778
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,640
show and supported me with one time donations. We got

1779
01:43:57,640 --> 01:44:00,560
a one time donation from Germany. Shout out to Pascal,

1780
01:44:01,119 --> 01:44:03,600
Thank you, my friend. We got a one time donation

1781
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:08,239
from Tanya again, Tanya is the best. Always send in love.

1782
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:12,520
Definitely appreciate Tanya's help. And then what else we got?

1783
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:16,479
I think we got another donation from a new supporter,

1784
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:18,159
and I want to make sure I give them a

1785
01:44:18,279 --> 01:44:21,239
shout out as well. So let me just go into

1786
01:44:21,279 --> 01:44:26,000
my history here. Yes, we got a donation from jen

1787
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:31,760
if Er and then Elizabeth. Thank you both. And I

1788
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:39,560
did not mean to I did not intentionally mispronounce those names.

1789
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:44,520
That's how they're written on VENMO. Very interesting back to

1790
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:49,359
back people whose names are broken down phonetically. Jen if

1791
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:54,680
Er and Eliza Beth or Elizabeth either way, Thank you

1792
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:57,560
to all of you who support the show with one

1793
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:00,960
time donations. Big shout out to our inner national family

1794
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:06,279
of listeners. Until next episode, immerse yourself in the moment,

1795
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:07,720
wherever you are in the.

1796
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:23,560
Speaker 4: New red curtains. They sway in the breeze, a flickering.

1797
01:45:23,199 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 3: Light, a distorted on knees, a seventy on Grandma's lom

1798
01:45:32,159 --> 01:45:36,600
cursed dream logic is cruelly dry.

1799
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:39,319
Speaker 4: Visions.

1800
01:45:39,399 --> 01:45:45,359
Speaker 3: They twist and they start a six Uncle nine mar lessons.

1801
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 4: Alert.

1802
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:53,319
Speaker 3: The man in black is stocking all well, this last highway, a.

1803
01:45:55,600 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 4: Nose, a reconstance in.

1804
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:08,720
Speaker 3: The ether, silverst a ceiling fan worlds this moment.

1805
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:15,760
Speaker 11: Last the Red Room calls a twisted died where the

1806
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:23,560
Saloman understands in the fading list versions, They twist and

1807
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:25,319
they start a.

1808
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:27,319
Speaker 4: Sickleical night mare.

1809
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 3: Less sense A learned the man in black stocking loos

1810
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:37,199
where this last highway as.

1811
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:39,520
Speaker 5: He knows.

1812
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 4: A hospos a secret untold in the loss, where reality.

1813
01:46:49,079 --> 01:46:54,199
Speaker 3: Is fled, the one and the many across a sty

1814
01:46:54,960 --> 01:47:04,079
where the unconsciousy grants forever sleep Whosian visions. They swiss

1815
01:47:04,319 --> 01:47:10,039
and they turn a cyclical night Mareless since A learned

1816
01:47:10,920 --> 01:47:11,600
a man.

1817
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:15,640
Speaker 4: In black is stock Allows, where this.

1818
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:30,159
Speaker 12: Last highway will end only he knows fire.

1819
01:47:30,399 --> 01:47:35,479
Speaker 4: Walk with me through the neon hays and the dream

1820
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:40,079
within a dream where a blue rostickcase