Speaker 1: Welcome Friendsis Podcasts podcast is done.
Speaker 2: Show Jack again by the Talking does brub mom Down
Speaker 2: podcast on Baby.
Speaker 1: Your town is being quarantined.
Speaker 2: We got nineteen dead, you got a hundred more infected.
Speaker 2: It's spreading on a brush fire. What are you talking about.
Speaker 2: If one of them's got it, then ten of them
Speaker 2: got it now, and if one of them gets out
Speaker 2: of Cedar Creek, we have a very interesting problem from
Speaker 2: the heart of a small California town to the inner
Speaker 2: circle of power in Washington. The greatest medical crisis of
Speaker 2: all time. We can't stop Him begins. There will be
Speaker 2: panic the likes of which we have never seen. Dustin Hoffman,
Speaker 2: Renee Russo, Morgan Freeman. We can't stop Him. Outbreak Rated
Speaker 2: R starts Friday, March tenth at a theater New You.
Speaker 2: Welcome to a movie film commentary Trek. My name is
Speaker 2: Zachi Hassain. I'm here in my has meat content ad
Speaker 2: mint suit in an uncontaminated zone alongside Brian Hall. Hey.
Speaker 2: How's it going, Zachi? I'm doing pretty well. I guess
Speaker 2: I should have put the helmet on. Yeah, let me
Speaker 2: take my.
Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going? Man? Apparently it's not airborne?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well that's a relief. Yeah, so we're good. You
Speaker 2: know what has been out in the wild for thirty
Speaker 2: years now, it's the movie Outbreak thirty.
Speaker 1: Years Yes, Outbreak, this was this is one of those
Speaker 1: movies that was such a thing in the moment, but
Speaker 1: it really was. I don't know that I've seen it
Speaker 1: literally in thirty years.
Speaker 2: Wow. So your first time revisiting it was for this track,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: So, I think I I remember renting it and yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've seen it since.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was definitely a phenomenon at the time it
Speaker 2: came out. It was number one at the box office
Speaker 2: for three consecutive weeks. Wow, which is no small thing.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think the last time I saw
Speaker 2: it was exactly five years ago, in the lead up
Speaker 2: to you know, all the COVID sheltern play stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this movie entered the Netflix Top ten in that moment,
Speaker 1: and you can understand why. Actually, it is very interesting
Speaker 1: to rewatch this movie.
Speaker 2: Now having lived through that. Yeah, there's a whole.
Speaker 1: Different sensation that's really true watching some of these scenes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we thought, you know, we like to do
Speaker 2: this sometimes, just dip into nineties action cinema. Yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: and and we have been kind of just working through,
Speaker 2: you know, the the catalog of Wolfgang Peterson. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I thought, hey, you know, let's celebrate thirty years
Speaker 2: of Outbreak. Let's suit up. Let's suit up. Let's let's
Speaker 2: dive into the hot zone or not the hot zone.
Speaker 1: They will get into that, yeah, I'm sure we'll.
Speaker 2: Be talking about that as we watch this. This I
Speaker 2: was gonna say classic, it's just I would call you
Speaker 2: know what I would call it, Brian, I would call
Speaker 2: it a forgotten little gem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would Yeah. Yeah, we'll get into
Speaker 1: that too. My memory of this. The tone of this
Speaker 1: movie is very different, right, and I would say it vacillates.
Speaker 2: I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, but but definitely a
Speaker 2: nostalgia trip for you and I. Yeah. Uh, and and hey,
Speaker 2: maybe it'll be a nostalgia trip for the people listening
Speaker 2: to us. So if you want to watch along with us,
Speaker 2: you can certainly do that. We are watching the one
Speaker 2: and only cut of the film. But you know, if not,
Speaker 2: we'll try to keep this conversation gaging enough that you
Speaker 2: won't feel like you're catching a cold, well or something
Speaker 2: worse while listening so with are you are you cute
Speaker 2: up on your end, Brian, Yeah, I'm ready to go. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we will hit play on three. We'll do the
Speaker 2: usual thing. So one two three play, and here we go,
Speaker 2: one two three play.
Speaker 1: You know, this is just on a personal note, but
Speaker 1: I was watching the movie last night that had the
Speaker 1: more updated Warner Shield, not the most recent one, but
Speaker 1: the one that we've had for a long time, where
Speaker 1: you see the reflection to the studio, you know, and
Speaker 1: you could see stage sixteen, which made me think of
Speaker 1: the last time you visited. And we went and saw
Speaker 1: a TV tapings a lot and we were staring at
Speaker 1: stage sixteen.
Speaker 2: Wow, how funny.
Speaker 1: Oh that's where Zachie and I were. And I actually thought,
Speaker 1: every time I see that now I'm going to think
Speaker 1: about Zachie and I walked past that stage.
Speaker 2: That's a nice memory. Yeah. As of this recording, that
Speaker 2: episode is not aired yet, so I'm still I'm still waiting.
Speaker 2: I've been keeping tabs.
Speaker 1: Also, well, we should say we went and saw a
Speaker 1: TV taping of Night.
Speaker 2: Court Night Court season three. Yeah, but so so do
Speaker 2: you go did you watch this movie in the theater
Speaker 2: when it came out? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: This was ninety five. I wasn't seventeen yet and seeing
Speaker 1: R rated movies was a little trickier okay at the time,
Speaker 1: and so probably I saw this. I think I rented it. You, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw it in the Cheap Show.
Speaker 2: But I did see it. I saw it with my
Speaker 2: brother downtown. Glen Ellen. I believe oh Ogden Ogden six No, no, no,
Speaker 2: it was oh Glen Ellen, sorry, yeah, and Glen Ellen yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I can picture it. Yeah. So a little point of trivia,
Speaker 2: it says here in nineteen sixty seven Zaire. Just in
Speaker 2: terms of historical correctness, in nineteen sixty seven, this was
Speaker 2: known as the Democratic Republic of Congo, and it's known
Speaker 2: as that again. By the ways, I think it was
Speaker 2: only known as Zaire from seventy one to the late nineties.
Speaker 1: Interesting, speaking of it's our rating, I didn't realize this
Speaker 1: was rated R. It was one of those things where
Speaker 1: the movie went on for about thirty some minutes or something,
Speaker 1: and then every now and then there'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I was like, that's.
Speaker 2: Three f words. Like I was like, I was this
Speaker 2: rated are? Like I didn't even realize. I would guess
Speaker 2: it got the R rating more for sort of the
Speaker 2: horrific nature of the virus, like they didn't want little
Speaker 2: kids going and seeing the what happens.
Speaker 1: You know, honestly, that makes a lot of sense, because
Speaker 1: I think in my mind this just did feel like
Speaker 1: a weirdly like a nineties summer blockbuster that like, I
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like a PG thirteen big
Speaker 1: summer movie or something. Yeah, but yeah, no, it's definitely
Speaker 1: pretty grotesque at times here.
Speaker 2: Very much. So. Yeah, And and what's what's fascinating is
Speaker 2: that I think I think the in terms of the situation.
Speaker 2: First of all, the situation that the movie depicts is
Speaker 2: complete fantasy, right in terms of how quickly the virus
Speaker 2: adapts and everything else. But what I do think it
Speaker 2: highlights and it's relevant nowadays because we or there there
Speaker 2: does seem to be sort of an anti science pushback
Speaker 2: in the world at large, right. I was watching the
Speaker 2: town react later. Yeah, I did have a wow.
Speaker 1: The more things change, it really, you know, it really
Speaker 1: is in a moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean it it points out, you know,
Speaker 2: there's people who work in these fields who are who
Speaker 2: are unheralded but doing really important stuff, you know, like
Speaker 2: like the you know, General McClintock dropping this bomb here.
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's important work that he just did
Speaker 2: to wipe out this village. That's horrible. That's a that's
Speaker 2: a real bomb. By the way, isn't that terrifying?
Speaker 1: Like, oh, the type of bomb.
Speaker 2: That it uses oxygen to sort of create this it
Speaker 2: basically lights the air on fire. Wow, this is horrific.
Speaker 2: You know, we we we we seem to excel more
Speaker 2: at finding new ways to kill each other. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: to save each other's lives.
Speaker 1: And I had that very thought when you said that.
Speaker 1: It's like, we just use our imaginations and creativity and
Speaker 1: brilliance to find new ways to destroy. Yeah, really, you know,
Speaker 1: but this, I mean it came at an interesting time
Speaker 1: where I remember viruses were kind of like a lot.
Speaker 1: It featured a lot in the news. There was that
Speaker 1: best selling book The Hot Zone, that's right, which I
Speaker 1: remember there was like this sort of handful of books
Speaker 1: in the nineties that were these best selling true stories.
Speaker 1: It made me think of into thin Air about the
Speaker 1: ninety six Mount Everest disaster. Like I remember a lot
Speaker 1: of people reading The Hot Zone, and I knew it
Speaker 1: was a true story. About viruses. I remember Into Thin
Speaker 1: Air being a big one, which.
Speaker 2: That served as the basis for the movie Everest, which you.
Speaker 1: Know, which yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually I went and
Speaker 1: googled that because I thought, wait a minute, is this
Speaker 1: the same thing we just watched that? But yeah, so
Speaker 1: this movie began as an attempt to adapt The Hot Zone, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the idea of making this film in the
Speaker 1: first place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there was a bidding war with Regardless before
Speaker 2: The Hot Zone even became a book. So by way
Speaker 2: of context, the Hot Zone is a fact based story
Speaker 2: about a near outbreak of abola that happened the state side.
Speaker 2: It started as an article in the New Yorker, I think,
Speaker 2: and at that stage there was you know, the studios
Speaker 2: were fighting it out.
Speaker 1: Like how to adapt this into a movie because this
Speaker 1: was a huge selling book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so Arnold Copolson, who produced The Fugitive, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, look look at the font here you
Speaker 2: can do this is Fugitive font.
Speaker 1: The font and the score and the score. I thought, wow,
Speaker 1: this feels I noticed the font and I noticed this
Speaker 1: sounds exactly like the score from The Fugitive. And then
Speaker 1: the credit, you know, James Newton Howard comes up, and
Speaker 1: I was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to imagine they tempt it with the
Speaker 2: fugitive probably in right. So, so Arnold Copelson got out
Speaker 2: bid by by Linda Oapst, who who put together a
Speaker 2: package for The Hot Zone with Ridley Scott attached and
Speaker 2: Robert Redford was gonna star, Jody Foster was attached. Kind
Speaker 2: of a big deal. Yeah, and so Coppelsen was like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna make my own virus movie. And and
Speaker 2: you know, you can't copyright a virus, uh, and so
Speaker 2: they just or the idea of a virus. I should say,
Speaker 2: I would assume Motaba is TM and copyright you know
Speaker 2: Warren Brothers. Sure, yeah, but you can't copyright the idea.
Speaker 2: And so they just kind of, you know, just did
Speaker 2: it faster. And and I remember at the time, because
Speaker 2: I was that nerdy film film buff kid, I was
Speaker 2: following like the the the race to get both virus
Speaker 2: movies into production. I remember when Crisis in the Hot Zone,
Speaker 2: which is what that film was, was gonna be called
Speaker 2: just they they they threw in the towel. Oh really, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember, I remember all of that happening, you know,
Speaker 2: roughly in real time. How did you follow those sorts
Speaker 2: of stories in the mid nineties, primarily through Entertainment Weekly
Speaker 2: Time magazine. I would read the entertainment section in Time Magazine. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I would Yeah. This was before even I had
Speaker 2: internet access. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I would go. I would go to the jewel
Speaker 2: Osco right near my house. I would walk over there
Speaker 2: and I would read the Entertainment Weekly almost from cover
Speaker 2: to cover, just standing there.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was like a Memories a weekly thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1: I subscribed to that too, and you know Starlog and
Speaker 1: all those.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I had a subscription to Entertainment Weekly once I
Speaker 2: could do that on my own, from like ninety seven, no, no,
Speaker 2: ninety eight, early ninety eight until probably twenty twelve something
Speaker 2: like that. Wow, right, And then I realized, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: why am I I don't need to read this magazine.
Speaker 1: Like I know, I know well, and then it ceased
Speaker 1: being Entertainment Weekly and now that's right early and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it went monthly first and then online only, so.
Speaker 2: It's not published at all anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, as I say that, I'm not sure because you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm telling this story. But I
Speaker 1: got one in the mail with my name on it
Speaker 1: two years ago and thought, what, like, I did subscribe
Speaker 1: to this and then I never got another one again.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there was some glitch in
Speaker 1: their system where they saw my name was in there
Speaker 1: from fifteen years ago, or look at that.
Speaker 2: It's a metaphor for something. One day you received an
Speaker 2: entertainment weekly, never realizing it was the last entertainment weekly
Speaker 2: you'd ever received. That's right, it's very deep.
Speaker 1: But no, I was reading this interview with the screenwriters
Speaker 1: Lawrence Dwrett and Robert Roy Poole, and they said that, yeah,
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers was enlisting writers to adapt Crisis in the
Speaker 1: Hot Zone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they came back.
Speaker 1: The writers came back to Warner Brothers and said, this
Speaker 1: article won't make a good motion picture because the end
Speaker 1: of the article is hundreds of monkeys being put to
Speaker 1: sleep and the disease never affecting human beings. So Dworet
Speaker 1: was a former emergency room doctor, and he said, you
Speaker 1: know what really scares me is somebody's going to come
Speaker 1: in with a particular disease and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: recognize it. And they're going to spread it to me
Speaker 1: and all the medical staff, and we're going to have
Speaker 1: to go home, or we're going to go home and
Speaker 1: spread it to our families. So they're like, let's have
Speaker 1: a movie where a virus spreads out of control, and
Speaker 1: you know, it has to be a bigger movie. People
Speaker 1: have to get sick and die, and it has to
Speaker 1: be a threat to the world. Otherwise it's not a
Speaker 1: major studio feature. And Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2: Agreed, Well, I think that's very apt because because The
Speaker 2: Hot Zone was eventually adapted into a TV mini series
Speaker 2: and it was very compelling television interesting, And I had
Speaker 2: that exact thought. I was like, I don't think this
Speaker 2: would have worked as a movie. It was. It ended
Speaker 2: up in the exact format it should have been in.
Speaker 1: It was like a dramatic narrative or was it a documentary.
Speaker 2: No, it's a mini It was a mini series. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a show. It starred Juliana Marghley's Oh interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and really remained attached as EP from the time it
Speaker 2: fell apart. I think that this this movie, it has
Speaker 2: kind of pulpy energy.
Speaker 1: He surprisingly, so, I didn't remember it that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I especially when you get into the third.
Speaker 2: Act, very much like a nineties popcorn yeah exactly. Anyway, Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I well, I I personally like the fact that they
Speaker 2: went with Dustin Hoffman. I think that's really interesting and
Speaker 2: it makes the movie kind of stand out because he's
Speaker 2: never done other movies like this.
Speaker 1: I agree, and he brings sort of a oh well,
Speaker 1: he's this type of guy. You know, if you just
Speaker 1: put someone who's got I mean, forgive me Dustin, but
Speaker 1: like more muscles and you know, perhaps some more traditionally
Speaker 1: movie star handsome face, you know, Harrison Ford type who
Speaker 1: they were looking at. That's a different type of character.
Speaker 1: Like this guy seems like someone who devoted his life
Speaker 1: to the study of this thing, and he's put into
Speaker 1: an extraordinary situation and seeing him fight against the system
Speaker 1: to do what's right feels different in the way that
Speaker 1: it's gonna be yeah right, versus like if you put Schwarzeneggers, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, well to that point. You know, this is
Speaker 2: something Linda Obst talked about. You know, she was the
Speaker 2: Hot Zone producer. How Wolfgang Peterson was trying to like
Speaker 2: get Redford to come over to his virus movie. Mm hmmm,
Speaker 2: and She talked about how that was like a pretty
Speaker 2: shitty thing to do, which which I would agree with. However, Redford,
Speaker 2: to his credit, he told he told Linda Opst, I'm
Speaker 2: sticking with you to is that true? That is a
Speaker 2: true sort which is either endearing or sexist.
Speaker 1: I don't know, kind of depends on.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, they are. They they wrote Sam Daniels
Speaker 2: with Harrison Ford in mind, which I can imagine that movie.
Speaker 2: I can absolutely see that he turned it down. Then
Speaker 2: they went to Mel Gibson, they went to Sliced Alone.
Speaker 1: You know what's so funny. I didn't imagine I would
Speaker 1: say this, but this movie does.
Speaker 2: Have daylight or daybreak or whatever.
Speaker 1: That movie was called ye energy, oh totally, which I
Speaker 1: was not expecting. I thought this was like a real
Speaker 1: more like high minded, serious dramatic sort of piece, but
Speaker 1: it was, no, No, it's not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and and that's where I think, honestly, Hoffman
Speaker 2: elevates it a little bit just via his presence. Yes,
Speaker 2: because because again going back to what I was saying,
Speaker 2: like he he was not known for your big blockbuster movies.
Speaker 2: And I think I think there is a relatability and
Speaker 2: a reality and I think he knows the assignment here,
Speaker 2: you know, uh, and I think that helps you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Actually I was kind of and we just
Speaker 1: saw the scene where they're on the helicopter and you
Speaker 1: have Kevin Spacey, Dustin Hoffman, Cuba Gooding Junior together, we
Speaker 1: just saw Morgan Freeman, and I was kind of interested
Speaker 1: in where these people were at in their careers because
Speaker 1: we know them now, is right, I mean major stars.
Speaker 1: I'm specifically really talking about Kevin Spacey. Well you know,
Speaker 1: we can talk about that, but like in Cuba Gooding Junior.
Speaker 1: But this is sort of we're getting kind of introduced
Speaker 1: to them, like Jerry McGuire hasn't happened yet, right, the
Speaker 1: usual suspects happens this year. I think for Kevin Spacey, sod.
Speaker 2: Of Cuba Gooding from Lightning Jack. No, That's what I
Speaker 2: knew him from. Actually.
Speaker 1: But when you look at Dustin Hoffman, I mean obviously
Speaker 1: you have like rain Man and I'm grading all those things.
Speaker 2: Five years after his Rainman Oscar. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well you have Dick Tracy in ninety Simpson's Mister Bergstrom
Speaker 1: ninety one, Billy Bathgate, Hook something else, Hero, and then
Speaker 1: this in ninety five, so it's not like a ton
Speaker 1: of huge movies, honestly.
Speaker 2: Yeah a minute there, Yeah, Yeah, that's that's different. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Kevin Spacey, of course it's interesting too. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously we can apply what we know about him now,
Speaker 1: but I did feel like, how am I supposed to
Speaker 1: feel about this character? He seems like kind of a weirdo.
Speaker 2: See. I was like, oh, it's likable, doomed partner. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean he's got like a sense of humor, which probably, again,
Speaker 1: if I could remove what I know about him now,
Speaker 1: I think he might seem a little less creepy. But
Speaker 1: he does have I think he's supposed to be like
Speaker 1: sarcastic yeah, or something like he's the funny, sarcastic yeah counterpart.
Speaker 1: But he just seems like, I don't know, like the
Speaker 1: way he talks to Cuba Gooding Junior and like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: liquefies to your eyeballs, And it's like, is he like
Speaker 1: the guy who's a little obsessed with how the virus works?
Speaker 1: Like he could like like lean into that with the
Speaker 1: tone that I think he's doing, you know, right, or
Speaker 1: he like I almost admire its simplicity.
Speaker 2: He's Ian Holme and the alien. Yeah, yeah, exactly. See.
Speaker 2: I remember this is this is I'm gonna take the
Speaker 2: bow for this. And I remember watching this in the
Speaker 2: theater and being like, that's the guy who's gonna die sure,
Speaker 2: Kevin Spacey. Yeah, and it was I was doing the
Speaker 2: movie Math. I was like, I was like, it's not
Speaker 2: going to be the It's not going to be the
Speaker 2: black guy m like I was doing. I was doing
Speaker 2: all this, He's he's the math. Yeah. I was like,
Speaker 2: he's the young you know. And and I I was
Speaker 2: kind of pegging it. I was like, well, they're not
Speaker 2: going to kill Rene Russo. So that's why I and
Speaker 2: I I had because this is Wolfgan Peterson and I
Speaker 2: knew he was the guy who did in the Line
Speaker 2: of Fire. And when Dylan McDermott dies in that movie,
Speaker 2: that was That was my first time with the doom
Speaker 2: partner trope. You know, wow, that really was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it continues, I'm sure to this day, but
Speaker 1: maybe audiences expect it more so you don't see it
Speaker 1: as often. But now Speed was a year before this.
Speaker 2: I think Jeff.
Speaker 1: Daniel is one of the most affecting Doomed partners, at
Speaker 1: least in my experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I love that that in Copycat, Dermott
Speaker 2: mulroney is the likable doomed partner Copycat. Wow. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: Pulan McDermott and Dermott mulroney have both been the likable
Speaker 2: doomed partner.
Speaker 1: I've said it before. I don't know why Copycat keeps
Speaker 1: coming up on this podcast, but like, I feel like
Speaker 1: that one's been forgotten to time, but I will never
Speaker 1: forget the killer in that movie Licks a Knife, and
Speaker 1: I thirty plus years later, it still haunts me. I'm like, eh,
Speaker 1: it really really disturbed me.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you got Cuba Gooding Junior on the chopper
Speaker 1: being like he's being prepped, like, look, man, what you're
Speaker 1: about to see is pretty intense. We need to know
Speaker 1: that you can handle it if you're going to be
Speaker 1: a part of our team. He's like, you can count
Speaker 1: on me, so you obviously know he's gonna barf.
Speaker 2: And then he up checks in his suit in his suit,
Speaker 2: which is very horrifying.
Speaker 1: And then there's that moment too, I mean that's the
Speaker 1: reveal that this virus is not airborne. Yea, They're like,
Speaker 1: don't take off your helmet. But then he lifts it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, again I.
Speaker 1: Don't know if this is a post COVID kind of thing,
Speaker 1: but just having lived through that moment where well in
Speaker 1: this movie, later you'll see someone coughing in a movie theater. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, please stop, please stop please, you
Speaker 1: know kind of that seeing.
Speaker 2: That as a kid was a traumatic moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really gets and of course would work
Speaker 1: in ninety five with this film. But again having lived
Speaker 1: through that moment where you hear someone coughing in the
Speaker 1: theater and you're like.
Speaker 2: Dude, yeah, like right or leave, just leave. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so then you know, wearing the masks and then
Speaker 1: being in a target or something with a mask on
Speaker 1: and feeling like if I lift it, is that okay?
Speaker 1: And then if I put it back down, did I
Speaker 1: just you know, create a situation for myself. So seeing
Speaker 1: Cuba Gooding Junior lift the helmet in that area, I
Speaker 1: really felt that, oh, don't breathe, don't breathe. You don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, it felt more even more palpable to me
Speaker 1: now post twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which it is so crazy to be five years
Speaker 2: out from that, you.
Speaker 1: Know, It's so funny. I mean, yeah, I mean does
Speaker 1: it feel close or like, does it feel a million
Speaker 1: miles away or does it feel like it was yesterday?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, both, definitely both.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's interesting too that in that moment, and maybe because
Speaker 1: it was early on where it almost felt like a novelty,
Speaker 1: Hey you got to stay at home, you don't have
Speaker 1: to go to work, Yeah, that people were in droves
Speaker 1: going to outbreak and Contagion, right, yeah, you know, because
Speaker 1: I remember that one got picked up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Contagion is like a hard one to watch, Like,
Speaker 2: I think this one benefits from sort of the fact
Speaker 2: that it is escapism, you know. Yeah, yeah, Contagion. That's
Speaker 2: that's a rough one, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that one in a while,
Speaker 1: but I remember the whole thing about like the butcher
Speaker 1: and the pig and like, you know, the way it
Speaker 1: spreads the market. Yeah, by the way I was reading,
Speaker 1: I always try to like look at a lot of
Speaker 1: trivia about these movies because that's what I'm really interested in.
Speaker 1: And yeah, half the trivia of this movie is like,
Speaker 1: so to get the monkey to do this, you know,
Speaker 1: just how difficult it was to get the monkey to
Speaker 1: do the certain sorts of things. That's and apparently in
Speaker 1: that scene we just saw where it gets captured with
Speaker 1: the net, they had to train the monkey to feel
Speaker 1: like it was a game. Yes, that's right, like it
Speaker 1: was fun to be in the net, and so they
Speaker 1: got it.
Speaker 2: To to to do that.
Speaker 1: And so it's you know, it's always hard seeing a
Speaker 1: real animal on screen screen.
Speaker 2: The monkey. The monkey, by the way, that's that's Betsy,
Speaker 2: the same monkey who played Marcel on Friends. That's right,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: And apparently they had a difficult experience with that monkey.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, well, monkeys are pains in the ass, I
Speaker 2: would imagine, just yeah, in general, trying to get monkeys
Speaker 2: to do stuff. Well, as we say, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: does an animal know they're in a movie? You know?
Speaker 1: I think that all the time. I was watching something
Speaker 1: the other day and like a horse fell over and
Speaker 1: it was an older movie. So I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: they tripped that horse, and I'm like, that poor horse
Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going on. It's just living its life,
Speaker 1: you know, and animals don't know. But but didn't they
Speaker 1: make a joke about outbreak in Friends like Outbreak two?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Well, they they had a thing where where
Speaker 2: the movie. They were filming Outbreak too, and so Ross
Speaker 2: goes to visit Marcel and the movie stars Van dam Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh that's right. I see.
Speaker 1: I've only seen the series once and I remember the
Speaker 1: Van Damn thing and I remember the Outbreak too.
Speaker 2: I forgot those were connected. Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1: But I should mention that ship that we just saw,
Speaker 1: the Tyguck Seattle. I guess it's called okay, that brings
Speaker 1: the Monkey to the US.
Speaker 2: That's actually the S.
Speaker 1: S Lane Victory, which is a ship from World War Two,
Speaker 1: and you can visit that in San Pedro, California. And
Speaker 1: I actually had relatives out here and I was looking
Speaker 1: for things to do and I saw that you could
Speaker 1: visit that that ship, that battleship, and it's actually really fun.
Speaker 1: So if anyone's looking for something to do, you can
Speaker 1: go into the bowels of the ship and see all
Speaker 1: sorts of you know, like gunner positions. That's amazing, huge
Speaker 1: cannons and yeah, I was actually I didn't realize that
Speaker 1: they still had it afloat and they were using it
Speaker 1: in films, okay, thirty years ago, but now it's I
Speaker 1: think permanently docked and you can go visit it. It's
Speaker 1: like a museum. So okay, yeah, point.
Speaker 2: Of fact, Yeah, no, that's I love that of going
Speaker 2: back and looking at old timey ships and things.
Speaker 1: You know, it is weird to think that. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: you talk about that all the time, like history all
Speaker 1: living at once. In the moment you're standing in, you know,
Speaker 1: think about the people that stood in that very spot,
Speaker 1: and you just think about a bunch of people running
Speaker 1: around that ship and what they probably experienced.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it kind of kind of cool. So at
Speaker 2: the time this movie was made, Rene Russo was forty
Speaker 2: one and Dustin Hoffan was fifty seven. I did the
Speaker 2: math too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they're playing a married couple on the verge of
Speaker 1: divorce here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and or they are divorced, but they're.
Speaker 1: Divorced, yes, yeah, and he's going to pick up his things.
Speaker 1: It was funny because I thought it sort of feels
Speaker 1: like from that spin the wheel of issues to give
Speaker 1: your character.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't totally work though, because it's like
Speaker 1: I think specific with these characters. These are people who
Speaker 1: do the same job, and they're dedicated to their jobs
Speaker 1: and they're equally I liked that it's not like one is.
Speaker 2: Above the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they're they're both very good at their jobs,
Speaker 1: and they're both very important and and so I then
Speaker 1: when this thing kicks in, they're sort of forced, well
Speaker 1: both of them are thrust into the issue. But then
Speaker 1: they're sort of brought together in one spot and they
Speaker 1: have to work together, and it brings them closer together.
Speaker 1: And actually thought then it worked pretty pretty well, like narratively.
Speaker 2: I agree. Yeah. I think I think I mentioned before.
Speaker 2: You know, I had a pretty big crush on Rene
Speaker 2: Russo throughout the nineties. Oh yeah, and you know, even here,
Speaker 2: as as she's withering away from the Motaba virus, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'd risk get in the virus.
Speaker 1: It's a very I mean, it happens later, but it's
Speaker 1: a really sweet moment when he takes his helmet off.
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, yeah, around her. So this whole thing,
Speaker 1: you know, where we're seeing them suit up and they
Speaker 1: put the duct tape over the cuffs of their outfits
Speaker 1: and the gloves, and I mean it's good because we
Speaker 1: later see issues with this, so we're sort of being
Speaker 1: introduced to the concept of this. But I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at that duct tape. I'm like, does that
Speaker 1: feel for as many precautions as they need to take,
Speaker 1: it feels a little precarious. Yeah, right, doesn't it like
Speaker 1: it doesn't even look like all that tape is tamped down.
Speaker 2: Well, it could be Scotch tape, So I guess just
Speaker 2: look at it that way. No duct table could always
Speaker 2: be worse.
Speaker 1: But it's nerve wrecking too, because then we have this
Speaker 1: moment of tension where it's like, well, you were about
Speaker 1: to walk in there, but there's a little little tear
Speaker 1: in your We cannot have that, right, And so you're like, well,
Speaker 1: why are these suits so easily terrible?
Speaker 2: Right? Well, and I think some of that, it will
Speaker 2: a lot of that probably is is sort of a
Speaker 2: cinematic license. That's a good point, right, because we know
Speaker 2: later on there's a scene where Casey's air hose is
Speaker 2: disconnected and oops, caught the virus. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: even as I was watching it, I was like, that
Speaker 2: seems really stupid if it's that easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: And apparently there's there's like a failsafe built in where
Speaker 2: it can only push air out, it can't take anything in.
Speaker 2: If something like that happens. Yeah, that makes a lot
Speaker 2: of sense because these suits, by the way, you know,
Speaker 2: if you look at real hazmat suits, they're made in
Speaker 2: such a way where you can't see the person's face. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you hear that a lot in movies.
Speaker 1: I can't think of a particular one off top of
Speaker 1: my head, but it's like space suits or space helmets.
Speaker 1: They're sort of redesigned so you can see the actor's
Speaker 1: face where exactly life they don't, and you can also
Speaker 1: stick lights in there and microphones and also.
Speaker 2: Right, right, So that's with this, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: they had they've kind of finessed something that's not entirely
Speaker 2: real life, right, but realistic enough that you roll with it.
Speaker 2: I think that's the thing, Yeah, is right, because because
Speaker 2: when you watch a movie like this, right, we are
Speaker 2: not experts. We're not epidemiologists or virologist or anything like that,
Speaker 2: and so what we need is to see characters act
Speaker 2: in a way that is apparently credible, and then we'll
Speaker 2: roll with whatever. Hugger, mugger they're saying, that's so true. Yeah, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's sort of they have to perform credibility
Speaker 2: and we go with it. Because the movie lays out
Speaker 2: those markers. You know, my understanding is that image there
Speaker 2: of the Motaba virus, that's just the Ebola strain, And
Speaker 2: I think they just kind of photoshopped a little a
Speaker 2: little flint flam here and there, you know.
Speaker 1: Right right, I mean, I remember Abola goes all the
Speaker 1: way back to the seventies, but I well, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's probably due to the book. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: I remember sort of a flare up in stories about
Speaker 1: it in the nineties.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's right. And I can't say.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was kind of I was a teenager then,
Speaker 1: so it's not like I have a really solid understanding
Speaker 1: of what was going on. It's probably just headlines I
Speaker 1: was seeing over and over versus real knowing what the
Speaker 1: situation was.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I was enough of a hypochondriac that that
Speaker 2: whenever I would read those types of stories, I just,
Speaker 2: you know, curl up in the fetal position under my bed,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I see, And I've I've
Speaker 1: always been I think I get it from my mom
Speaker 1: a little bit, like a little bit of a germophobe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like even pre COVID, like when someone coughs near me, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, dude, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Or if someone shows up to work and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got a cold, don't mind me. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: very much minding you. I don't want to be sick
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You know what's funny is is I've had
Speaker 2: this discussion with my wife because because you know, she'll
Speaker 2: eat my kids leftovers, and I'm like, nope, not doing that. Sorry,
Speaker 2: but there are your kids. I'm like, don't care, not
Speaker 2: doing that. That's so interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, But I mean so after COVID happened, I mean
Speaker 1: I wish it had never happened, but when people were
Speaker 1: a little more heightened and being a little more mindful,
Speaker 1: like you know what, maybe I shouldn't come into the
Speaker 1: office today, or you know, don't shake my hand. I've
Speaker 1: been having a cough this morning. I was like, now,
Speaker 1: this is the world I want to live in, you know,
Speaker 1: everyone sort of respects one another as well being you know,
Speaker 1: or even like I visited Japan in like twenty seventeen
Speaker 1: or eighteen or something, and of course masks were part
Speaker 1: of the culture over there, and I was like, if
Speaker 1: only this would catch on you know, if you're not
Speaker 1: that you have to wear it every day. But if
Speaker 1: you're not feeling well, or if you're going to be
Speaker 1: in a public space and you're a little concerned about
Speaker 1: the people around you, let's make it normal, you know,
Speaker 1: to take the precaution and not bad an eye. And
Speaker 1: so again when masks, you know, obviously I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone enjoyed having to wear masks all the time in
Speaker 1: every place, but I was sort of hoping that it
Speaker 1: would normalize a little bit, like, well, but if you
Speaker 1: aren't feeling well, the least you can do is this
Speaker 1: sort of thing or not made to feel weird. If
Speaker 1: you get on an airplane and you're going to visit
Speaker 1: an elderly person, which I've it's happened for me, and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I'm gonna put on a mask because
Speaker 1: I I'm going to be hanging out with this person
Speaker 1: in the nineties for a week. And I would say
Speaker 1: kind of got there.
Speaker 2: Well, there is sort of the the dickishness that we
Speaker 2: see of people pulling off the masks of other people.
Speaker 1: See you now that yeah exactly, And I'm like, you don't,
Speaker 1: just yeah exactly, Just don't don't here's an idea.
Speaker 2: Just mind your own effing business, Mind your own fing business. Yep,
Speaker 2: I completely agree.
Speaker 1: I do enjoy this uh kind of like respect slash
Speaker 1: adversarial relationship between Morgan Freeman and Dustin Hoffman just because
Speaker 1: they're great actors and they have great voices.
Speaker 2: That's right, and starting intentive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like hearing them go toe to toe is just
Speaker 1: pleasing to listen to.
Speaker 2: A great comedian could make a meal out of a
Speaker 2: Dustin Hoffman Morgan Freeman conversation, just playing both sides of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But yeah, But so going back into the story here
Speaker 1: the opening sequence, we see two characters. There's that ship again.
Speaker 1: It's weird to think I've like stomped around that thing
Speaker 1: two characters in the sixties in these hazmat suits.
Speaker 2: Where you do not see the faces.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, and that's supposed to be the Donald
Speaker 1: Sutherland and Morgan Freeman characters.
Speaker 2: Correct, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is funny because now you would
Speaker 1: just dage them or something, right, but maybe they could.
Speaker 2: I think the idea was to keep it somewhat opaque,
Speaker 2: whether it was them or not, like, yeah, possibly see
Speaker 2: you look at McDreamy is the guy who fs everything up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's causing trouble even back then. This is here, right
Speaker 2: here in the Bay Area is where where all this
Speaker 2: ship starts. Yep, San Jose.
Speaker 1: What an interesting car to give that character. It's like
Speaker 1: a nineteen four already's you know, like total classic classic
Speaker 1: kind of car, Like what's the story there? But yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you watch a movie like this and everything
Speaker 1: goes south because of a chain of stupid events, right,
Speaker 1: And it's hard to watch those events in a movie
Speaker 1: where you know they're going to be bad. But then
Speaker 1: you just think about, like, I don't know, this dude
Speaker 1: just kind of made a buck couple bucks on the
Speaker 1: side doing one little gnarly thing, not realizing he was
Speaker 1: doing himself and potentially the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that's kind of the thing, right
Speaker 2: is as I actually appreciated that the Dempsey character Jimbo,
Speaker 2: who in my head canon is the adult version of
Speaker 2: the kid from The Simpsons, I could see that he's
Speaker 2: he's not like malevolent, you know exactly, like he's not
Speaker 2: like you stupid monkeys and you know doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's just an idiot, He's he's he's an absor rribably
Speaker 2: stupid person, no doubt. Yeah, but not not a malicious force.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I like that too.
Speaker 1: It's just again, it's a series of events that you
Speaker 1: I mean, they're never okay, what he's doing, this is bad,
Speaker 1: but like, all right, I can believe that might happen,
Speaker 1: you know, but due to these things.
Speaker 2: You know, as soon as the monkey sits in his
Speaker 2: mouth over here by the way that you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's not good. It's so gross.
Speaker 1: Sorry you were saying, no, no, it's just you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, you just think about the decisions
Speaker 1: you make in your life, and every now and then
Speaker 1: you make like one maybe I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1: But then you like you watch a movie like this
Speaker 1: and you're like, what if that one little thing that
Speaker 1: you felt bad about for five seconds but then moved
Speaker 1: on from, like possibly meant the end of the world.
Speaker 2: Well that's you know, this is so random. I was
Speaker 2: having a discussion with somebody where I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a real blessing that we don't have nonlinear awareness
Speaker 2: of time, you know, oh man, yeah, right, Like all
Speaker 2: we can do is experience things in the moment, and
Speaker 2: we we can't look back at the sea of choices
Speaker 2: that we might have made and everything. It's just it
Speaker 2: happens and we move on, and like, what a gift
Speaker 2: that is. I know.
Speaker 1: It's like that scene in The Matrix right where the
Speaker 1: oracle is like, it's okay about the vase, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, and he knocks over the vase and
Speaker 1: she's like, would you have done it if I hadn't
Speaker 1: said anything?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know.
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, your brain would be twist into
Speaker 1: like a pretzel just trying to undo and think about
Speaker 1: the decisions. So now the Patrick Dempsey character, he is
Speaker 1: basically just in cohoots with that pet store owner.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: He wants to breed monkeys. Is that what's happening?
Speaker 2: He's like, he's selling rare, rare animals. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: the pets, right, he wanted a male to breed with
Speaker 2: the female.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he could make more monkeys and sell them.
Speaker 2: I guess that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this isn't something that this guy Dempsey's doing all
Speaker 1: the time. He's not just stealing monkeys. This was like
Speaker 1: a one time I'll bring you this. I mean, I would.
Speaker 2: Assume this is not the first time he's done this, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like he's taking one every month
Speaker 1: and that guy's just selling them. It seems like there's
Speaker 1: like an even bigger plot here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I guess it's like vague enough that you know,
Speaker 2: one presumes they have some kind of an ongoing relationship, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, this is and this is just so ominous, right,
Speaker 1: like you know, this monkey is carrying something, and just
Speaker 1: the way the camera even cranes up watching him just
Speaker 1: like skidaddle into the woods, like well, into the world.
Speaker 2: You go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeap, now here, this is going to back you
Speaker 1: up where you're not eating the leftovers.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, well a couple of quick Number one,
Speaker 2: dumb ass here is feeling like shit and he doesn't
Speaker 2: say to the kid, hey, no, I'm not feeling well, right, yes,
Speaker 2: so that's weird. Number two, this kid, look, obviously it's
Speaker 2: good he doesn't like eat it. But also, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna put this out there. I'm not saying I don't
Speaker 2: think it would have hurt the gene pool if he
Speaker 2: did get it, because this kid's not not a smart kid,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And I love to by the way, I love that
Speaker 1: the mom is like, dude, you look terrible. Like she
Speaker 1: didn't say it, but you see it on her face.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of times in movies like this, you
Speaker 1: see a character and we know they're sick and they
Speaker 1: have to overdo it, so we you got it, this
Speaker 1: character's sick. But other characters will be like, hey, you
Speaker 1: want to open mouth kiss, you know, with that person,
Speaker 1: and you're like, what are you thinking? They're bleeding from
Speaker 1: their eyeballs. Can't you see that?
Speaker 2: I like this right here, Yeah, you.
Speaker 1: See she does the stupid thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she sees how he looks, and then she swaps
Speaker 2: spit with him for about a minute and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like again, but I'm just gonna put this out there.
Speaker 2: Gene Pool not affected, probably doing the species of favor.
Speaker 1: This is pretty effective though, by the way, this spinny
Speaker 1: camera thing, oh no, it's great. Yeah, sometimes that can
Speaker 1: kind of annoy me, but this feels very effective how
Speaker 1: he's feeling. Oh this is crazy too. Anytimes someone falls
Speaker 1: over a like a wall full of glass or whatever,
Speaker 1: it's always I.
Speaker 2: Read a thing on I think this is IMDb trivia
Speaker 2: where it's like when he falls over the fish tanks
Speaker 2: they had plastic fish instead of real fish. I'm like, no, shit, really,
Speaker 2: thanks for putting that in there. I mean they didn't
Speaker 2: kill actual fish while making it, you know, like come on,
Speaker 2: well in the seventies, maybe they would have. I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: Oh this is so gross. Okay now now hold on,
Speaker 2: Now let's think about this for a second. Okay again,
Speaker 2: helping the gene pool in my opinion, yes, think about this.
Speaker 2: He's doing. Think about this. Now, hold on, Brian. He
Speaker 2: is distracted by the game, right, Yes, he's listening to
Speaker 2: it on the radio, right right. He doesn't need to
Speaker 2: look away. What was he distracted by? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, so basically, I.
Speaker 2: Mean for people who aren't watching along.
Speaker 1: There's what do you call those things where you put
Speaker 1: those tubes of blood or plasma or whatever and they
Speaker 1: spin really fast. Yeah, and you see them in laboratories.
Speaker 1: And this guy, like what Zaki is saying is he's
Speaker 1: not like looking away at a television, there's nothing distracting
Speaker 1: him visually, but he looks toward this radio and just
Speaker 1: randomly or not randomly, he's purposefully sticks his hand into
Speaker 1: that thing as it's still spinning. Breaks the vials and
Speaker 1: blood splatters everywhere like a horror movie. And then he
Speaker 1: starts rubbing his eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I know, just just the absolute worst.
Speaker 1: Going back real quick, this is so stupid, but you
Speaker 1: know this movie's over two hours.
Speaker 2: Real quick before you. Yeah, the real the centrifugias that
Speaker 2: actually do that. They lock so if a hand no,
Speaker 2: if it's spinning, like you can't just stick your hand
Speaker 2: in there. Right. Oh, I see what you're saying, Like
Speaker 2: like like a laundry machine exactly, there's like a mechanism.
Speaker 2: It can't be opened if it's not so again, this
Speaker 2: is a contrivance of the movie.
Speaker 1: Anyway, go on, well, like the suits, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: they're only going one way. No, I was just gonna
Speaker 1: point out again the boy who tries to grab the
Speaker 1: cookie on the airplane. It's kind of funny how he's
Speaker 1: dressed up in this like old timey cowboy outfit, which
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I don't think any
Speaker 1: of us were dressed like that in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it feel like someone who was like forty plus
Speaker 1: years old in the nineties, Like, Yeah, when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I used to dress up like a cowboy,
Speaker 1: when I was like.
Speaker 2: He's dressed like Woody in anticipation of that movie's release,
Speaker 2: in anticipation. Yes, he's a big fan of Pixar, even
Speaker 2: though that was their first movie.
Speaker 1: Right, But like, that's that funny phenomenon sometimes where you're like,
Speaker 1: we grew up aware of that being a thing for kids,
Speaker 1: because everything we watched was written by people who were kids,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty years in the past.
Speaker 2: That's that's so true, you know. I had that thought yesterday.
Speaker 2: I was watching something. Oh, I was watching Superman, the
Speaker 2: first of the original movie, and it's the scene it's
Speaker 2: like Clark Kent pulls up in the taxi to the
Speaker 2: Daily Planet and the cab driver goes Daily Planet Mac
Speaker 2: or something like that, and I was like, did people
Speaker 2: ever actually call each other mac? Yes, that's right, And
Speaker 2: I just kind of got lost in that, like that's
Speaker 2: a thing that like we accept as a as a
Speaker 2: shorthand refer but I'm like, no one in my life
Speaker 2: has ever said mac to somebody unless their name was Mac.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like I've told this story before, but
Speaker 1: when I worked on Puppy Dog Pals, I pitched an
Speaker 1: episode that involved a sock hop, okay, And I was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, that is just entirely irrelevant now in the
Speaker 1: twenty twenties, but like, that's something I grew up aware
Speaker 1: of because the people writing the things that I was
Speaker 1: watching as a kid knew about sock ops, you know,
Speaker 1: but somehow it carries on. And actually I was like,
Speaker 1: I hope, I'm I'm keeping it alive in some way.
Speaker 2: I think you've given it oxygen. Somebody somewhere watch that show,
Speaker 2: will make a movie involving a sock cop, and it'll
Speaker 2: be because of you. Yep. Let's hope that's your contribution
Speaker 2: to our literary lineage. So this is gross.
Speaker 1: So Rene Russo just opened up a guy and basically
Speaker 1: said his insides are liquefied, which I guess is kind
Speaker 1: of what happened with Ebola, right.
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, I mean it's it's the Motaba virus
Speaker 2: in this film is like Ebola on steroids, right right, right,
Speaker 2: because because you're you're given like instant exposure, one hundred
Speaker 2: percent death within you know, forty eight hours or something ridiculous, which,
Speaker 2: thank goodness, knock on wood, we're not there yet in
Speaker 2: terms of Vira viruses whatever I feel like. Me saying
Speaker 2: that is like jinxing the world. Yeah. God's like, oh
Speaker 2: you're yeah. But you know, it works in terms of
Speaker 2: the drama for the movie because it creates the sense
Speaker 2: in the audience of just like, well, okay, so the
Speaker 2: guy's in the movie theater, dumb ass with the centrifuge
Speaker 2: yep is in the Now this scene here where his
Speaker 2: germs are just going out in the way that stays
Speaker 2: with you. That's a formative movie watching moment for me.
Speaker 1: The concept of this, yes, because you're watching the spittle Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like very very small, small small bits of it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: go out of his mouth and the camera follows it,
Speaker 1: and then it goes into the mouth of a woman
Speaker 1: rows away from him with her mouth open. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the concept then thinking of someone coughing in a theater
Speaker 1: and now you can imagine this in the air. And actually,
Speaker 1: when I saw Conclave a couple of weeks ago, there's
Speaker 1: a guy behind me coughing through the whole movie, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I was literally like, of all the
Speaker 1: seats I had to pick in this theater, and I
Speaker 1: just kept thinking about him, Yeah, And I was like,
Speaker 1: why do you want to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's that's the weird thing. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: with this, the guy in the movie, this in this
Speaker 2: in the film, who's at the movies. I'm willing to
Speaker 2: presume that he didn't feel that bad when he went
Speaker 2: to the theater.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's advancing quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so that that's that's my that's what makes
Speaker 2: it make sense for me. Yeah, I'll buy that. There
Speaker 2: you go, where's my no price? You know. It's funny.
Speaker 1: And the way I rationalized it away was like with
Speaker 1: the guy at conclave, or at least tried to comfort myself.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, typically coughing happens after you've been
Speaker 1: hit and it's like the result of what you went.
Speaker 2: Through and draining and whatnot. So hopefully he's on the
Speaker 2: other end of it. Yeah, yeah, there you go. And
Speaker 2: I didn't get sick so appy ending.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is like this is horrifying, man. So
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you have, you know, dozens and dozens
Speaker 1: of people pouring into the er here all sick, like
Speaker 1: this has got to be I mean, watching this movie
Speaker 1: as a doctor, well you think about one of the
Speaker 1: writers being a doctor, and that's what he said. This
Speaker 1: was his worst case scenario. What if there's someone in
Speaker 1: there spreading something I'm not aware of and don't understand,
Speaker 1: and they could be giving it to me. Right, That's
Speaker 1: what we're seeing, And it's kind of a scary image
Speaker 1: imagining that room and just people pouring in with something
Speaker 1: you don't understand in droves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that, And that's what was happening, you know,
Speaker 2: when when the rona first first kicked up. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, so we see this Renee Russo and
Speaker 1: her peeps in this office and they're just celebrating here
Speaker 1: for a second and everyone throws papers in the air.
Speaker 2: Looks good on film, but does that make a lot
Speaker 2: of sense. I was just thinking, like, A, you're losing track.
Speaker 1: Of whatever it was you were holding in your hands,
Speaker 1: and b there's like a moment after Yay, we're high
Speaker 1: fiving and hugging where everyone has to bend over and
Speaker 1: like and like pick up everything off the ground.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I I kind of I do like
Speaker 2: that what you were talking to with regards to the
Speaker 2: relationship between Freeman and Hoffman's characters, that we're not entirely
Speaker 2: sure where Billy is on the on the you know,
Speaker 2: on the on the gray shade spectrum, right, And I
Speaker 2: think that that creates some drama. I think on some level,
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, it is Morgan Freeman. He's not gonna
Speaker 2: be the right, you know. I I also I was thinking.
Speaker 2: I was as I was watching it, I was like,
Speaker 2: do we did we need the military bioweapon plot line? Like?
Speaker 2: Is that is that necessary for the movie to have drama?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: It's so funny. That is one of the factors that
Speaker 1: sort of makes it feel a little less real world. Yes,
Speaker 1: like more heightened action film, right, kind of a thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I mean like a cover up
Speaker 1: trying to protect a cover up would be enough for
Speaker 1: me personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like the whole, the whole Donald Sutherland of
Speaker 2: it all, with the you know he he his black
Speaker 2: hat is wearing a black hat, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do kind of love that that. Donald Sutherland plays
Speaker 2: like the kindest medical military doctor you could want, Hawkeye Piers,
Speaker 2: and then he plays like the most evil military doctor
Speaker 2: ever in this true. Yeah, that's true. The man had range,
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's funny. I had to
Speaker 2: do some gymnastics in my mind because I was like,
Speaker 2: Hawkeye's that's Alan Alda, Yeah, in in our multiversal mash.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I do.
Speaker 1: There's something really compelling that you almost like fill in
Speaker 1: your chest when you're watching a movie about someone who's
Speaker 1: smart and you know they're right, but they're facing all
Speaker 1: this opposition, and it's like you want to think you'd
Speaker 1: be the guy who'd go the extra mile that's right,
Speaker 1: because we know that if he doesn't, you know, all
Speaker 1: these lives could be lost. Like, there's something really compelling.
Speaker 2: About that well and in that vein, right. I think
Speaker 2: that's what I like about having Hoffman in this movie
Speaker 2: is like when you say Sylvester Stallone rights, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I think I think Stallone is good at what he does,
Speaker 2: and at this time there were I just I have
Speaker 2: a hard time seeing him in this role and and
Speaker 2: not making it seem like, well, his success is inevitable.
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You imagine him sort of like knocking out someone standing
Speaker 1: in his way and being like, that's my final diagnosis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1: I think Hoffman's perfect for this to carry a different
Speaker 1: sort of dramatic weight.
Speaker 2: Although you know what's interesting is he was very self
Speaker 2: conscious about how he like Wolf King Peterson talked about
Speaker 2: how like there would be scenes where it's like he's
Speaker 2: got to go here and he's got to turn like this,
Speaker 2: and he's like, well, I don't know how it's gonna
Speaker 2: look and doing all this and I don't know which
Speaker 2: you know, it really kind of just stuck in his
Speaker 2: own head, you know, because he doesn't do these types
Speaker 2: of movies, and so there were literally moments where he's
Speaker 2: telling Wolf Computerson, look to show me how you want
Speaker 2: me to do it, and he's like, turn like this.
Speaker 2: Like so he's acting for Dustin Hoffman. Isn't that fascinating? Right?
Speaker 2: And just feeling good. But here's the thing, because he
Speaker 2: knew that he was like the third choice, right or
Speaker 2: the fourth choice. So he literally would say, like I
Speaker 2: bet Harrison Ford could have done that. You know, that's
Speaker 2: really fascinating. You know.
Speaker 1: I have a story I can't I can tell you
Speaker 1: off air, but I was working on a movie and
Speaker 1: it was in near the offices of the studio and
Speaker 1: we were waiting on this guy, okay, one of the executives,
Speaker 1: and everyone's like where is He's like, well, pretty famous
Speaker 1: actor is freaking out on set just basically in his
Speaker 1: own head thinks he's not good, can't finish this movie.
Speaker 1: And so the guy was up there talking him off
Speaker 1: a ledge and I was like really, yeah, like it's
Speaker 1: just fascinating, it is, you know. I mean, they're the
Speaker 1: end of the day. You think they're confident, and you
Speaker 1: know they have all the accolades, but there's still just
Speaker 1: human beings, you know, and there's a lot of weight,
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, big budgeted movie and they're
Speaker 1: the face of it.
Speaker 2: Well and to that point, I mean, this movie costs
Speaker 2: fifty million, which you know, that's that's like the craft
Speaker 2: services budget on Hollywood movies these days, or.
Speaker 1: At least the Russo Brothers Netflix movies.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's good, lord, Yeah, the Russo Brothers latest movie.
Speaker 2: I saw, I saw the budget. You're gonna this is crazy.
Speaker 2: It was infinity dollars. I didn't know that was a number,
Speaker 2: but the Russo spent it. Yeah, no, but fifty million.
Speaker 2: So like, certainly up to that time, it was the
Speaker 2: biggest budget movie that Dustin Hoffman appeared in, maybe maybe
Speaker 2: barring hook well, but that but you didn't there was
Speaker 2: in there that I was not sorry that was relying
Speaker 2: on him like he was the guy. Sure right, because
Speaker 2: hook is like a two hander, right, I mean people
Speaker 2: are going to show up for Robin Williams, sure, sure, sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah that's right. But like this, this is a Hoffman joint, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: People weren't like, oh, the guy from Lightning Jack is
Speaker 2: in this. Yeah yeah, that was just.
Speaker 1: Me in that little theater in Glen Ellen. But it
Speaker 1: did okay. In the US it did sixty seven million,
Speaker 1: but worldwide it did one hundred and ninety million.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, look, this is let's
Speaker 2: normalize moderate budgets that allow for moderate success.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, But you can see why this would translate worldwide,
Speaker 1: just the concept of this, You could it could be
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like it's gonna say something that I
Speaker 3: totally forget never mind, but yeah, this is like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, almost feels like science fiction.
Speaker 1: Well at least I'm you know, this very obnoxious of
Speaker 1: me to say as someone living in the US in
Speaker 1: the nineties, you know, picturing like small town USA and
Speaker 1: the whole town coming down with something. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it's kind of a scary. We
Speaker 1: always talk about fantasy in your backyard. Usually that has
Speaker 1: to do with something, you know, like positive, you know,
Speaker 1: like tea lands in your backyard. What would that be
Speaker 1: like in my suburban neighborhood. But this is like the
Speaker 1: whole you know, what if this crazy epidemic happened in
Speaker 1: my neighborhood, what would that look like? You know, it
Speaker 1: could happen at you're a movie theater. Hey, you're in
Speaker 1: a movie theater right now watching this, Like that guy
Speaker 1: that just coughed five seconds ago, that could lead to
Speaker 1: you know, everyone in your neighborhood being in Gurney's.
Speaker 2: I'm imagining like people watching this in the theater, and
Speaker 2: there's that one guy who actually has a legitimate cough,
Speaker 2: like a corn colonel stuck in his throat or something, right,
Speaker 2: and he's suppressing that because he doesn't want to get murdered,
Speaker 2: right exactly. You know, we got like a CG shot there, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right. It looks like this is going terrible where
Speaker 2: it was going through the vent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is Hoffman realizing that the virus is airborne, right,
Speaker 1: because he looks up at the vent and then we
Speaker 1: take the camera through the vent going to another room
Speaker 1: and see like everyone's catching it, like, oh, I.
Speaker 2: Like the arc of this guy.
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't know his name, but the
Speaker 1: guy with the white hair and the mustle yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, I actually do know his name. It's uh oh,
Speaker 2: damn it. I had it pulled up. I had the
Speaker 2: whole castle's pulled up. But anyway, on well, he just
Speaker 2: seems like a guy doing his job.
Speaker 1: And then Donald Sutherland's basically bulling him around and he
Speaker 1: gets that moment at the end where he gets to
Speaker 1: arrest him.
Speaker 2: That's the thing is is Sutherland treats him like such
Speaker 2: a piece of shit. You're like, oh, man, his uppus
Speaker 2: is coming. Yeah. Dale Die that's the actor's name, Dale
Speaker 2: de Die Wow. Yeah. And he's you know, he's a
Speaker 2: famous like technical advisor for you know, like military, like
Speaker 2: you know, Band of Brothers and that stuff. So he
Speaker 2: certainly looks it. He's got the looks. He's got a haircut,
Speaker 2: Brian that you could set your watch too. That's right.
Speaker 1: For people who don't know. That's a quote from The Simpsons.
Speaker 1: Homer's dad says Johnny Unitas as a he has a
Speaker 1: like a crew cut, and he's like, that's a haircut.
Speaker 1: You can set your watch too. And I believed that
Speaker 1: was an actual expression after watching that, and I was
Speaker 1: in a writer's room and I said it, and everyone
Speaker 1: was like, what what does that mean? And I was
Speaker 1: trying to convince him it was an actual expression, and
Speaker 1: I had to go on Google and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess that's made that up.
Speaker 2: But doesn't it just make sense? It absolutely does anyway,
Speaker 2: you know exactly what he's saying. Yeah, So this scene here,
Speaker 2: I was watching this, and I was appreciating the idea
Speaker 2: that this is what specialists in this field do, right,
Speaker 2: they have this, you know that they are driven and
Speaker 2: and they're trying to lay out in a methodical fashion.
Speaker 2: And we want to believe that that there are people
Speaker 2: who are truly selfless who care about stopping this type
Speaker 2: of stuff. And I believe that is the case in fact,
Speaker 2: you know, absolutely, Yeah, And you know, I mean that's
Speaker 2: that's the thing is is, you know, over the last
Speaker 2: several decades, we've really there's there's a there has been
Speaker 2: a robust international apparatus set up to monitor and combat
Speaker 2: viruses and new viruses, and you know, I think, again,
Speaker 2: just going back to what we were saying, earlier. You know,
Speaker 2: this sort of this anti science moment that we're in
Speaker 2: risks knocking down these really foundational pillars that are going
Speaker 2: to end up redounding back to us in ways that
Speaker 2: we haven't fully reckoned with because we rely on knowing
Speaker 2: what the World Health Organization is saying and what and
Speaker 2: you know all of this stuff. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's we are a truly interconnected world in a way
Speaker 2: that we we need the expertise of scientists all over
Speaker 2: the planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't we want people who are smart and understand
Speaker 1: this stuff to be on top of it so we
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. Like when when you look at things
Speaker 2: such as a bola and even even HIV for that matter,
Speaker 2: that are you know, that are epidemics in in Africa
Speaker 2: and other parts of the world, It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: part of what our country has done is give resources
Speaker 2: and expertise to combat those there so that they don't
Speaker 2: become problems here. Yeah, you know, and so in in
Speaker 2: that vein this is what I like about scenes like
Speaker 2: this where Hoffman's character he's he's showing his dedication and
Speaker 2: his passion. Why because it's about saving lives. You know,
Speaker 2: we talk about this a lot, right, expertise in service
Speaker 2: of of something noble, you know, And and I love
Speaker 2: he has this line here where where Freeman's like, you
Speaker 2: were never here and right now and he says, no,
Speaker 2: I was here. I followed the bug here, I've always
Speaker 2: been here. Yeah, you know, like that's what you want,
Speaker 2: That's what you want.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, yeah, driven smart people, you know, working hard
Speaker 1: on something. It's it's compelling to watch. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: just talking about that with that movie September fifth. We're
Speaker 1: big fans of, you know, competence porn, watching people who
Speaker 1: are smart, who are stymied in the moment but are
Speaker 1: putting their smarts to use. And we're watching them like
Speaker 1: you were saying when we were seeing spacing in front
Speaker 1: of that whiteboard, you know, just all right, like I
Speaker 1: got a marker on a whiteboard and we're gonna figure
Speaker 1: this out.
Speaker 2: And it's very satisfying and complete. It really is, it
Speaker 2: really is, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you want to believe that we've got people like
Speaker 1: that in the real world, you know, on top of
Speaker 1: things for.
Speaker 2: Us, I think we do, you know, I mean, when
Speaker 2: we talk about COVID, right, like the fact that this
Speaker 2: amazing group of scientists all over the world were able
Speaker 2: to come up with a vaccine in in such a
Speaker 2: short window. It's remarkable, it really is. I mean it
Speaker 2: was like a year. Yeah, it's amazing, incredible. I mean
Speaker 2: that whole process it was literally called Operation Warp Speed
Speaker 2: and they did it, you know, And and it's weird.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry, the only tangentially connected to the movie,
Speaker 2: But I'm like, what an achievement that people don't want
Speaker 2: to acknowledge.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, you're making me think, well,
Speaker 1: I want the book on that. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: read that Race around the Clock.
Speaker 2: That's right story.
Speaker 1: And the people who were involved in what they went
Speaker 1: through and sacrificed, and the revelations you know that happened,
Speaker 1: and the Eureka moments.
Speaker 2: It's got to be some kind of a great mini
Speaker 2: series out of that at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's weird to think that would be politically
Speaker 1: charged in this moment, which is.
Speaker 2: That which is so unfortunate it really is, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean knowledge should not be a partisan position, you know,
Speaker 2: the having or not having of knowledge, it's not you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I think, yeah, I was no good. Sorry, yeah, no, Well,
Speaker 2: I think this scene here is reflective of what likely
Speaker 2: would happen in terms of these folks who are trying
Speaker 2: to to you know, ram their way out of a barricade.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like you were saying earlier in our conversation, like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, the same as always seems like you know it.
Speaker 1: Is, isn't it funny? I mean it almost. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously this is a very heightened version, but it I'm
Speaker 1: sure some people felt this way, you know.
Speaker 2: But here, okay, hold on a second. So so this
Speaker 2: helicopter is shooting like machine guns at you, and so
Speaker 2: dumbass is gonna shoot at them with a rifle.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I mean I I almost hesitate
Speaker 1: to even admit it. But when I was watching and
Speaker 1: I was like, what'd.
Speaker 2: You think was gonna happen? Yeah, Like I didn't even
Speaker 2: feel bad.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, like, dot, don't fire at
Speaker 1: a military helicopter that's firing at you.
Speaker 2: How do you think that story ends? You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just the sentiment. Like I said, obviously
Speaker 1: this is very heightened scenario, but the sentiment of feeling
Speaker 1: like you're being locked into a place.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, how weird that we would have
Speaker 1: a whole different sort of experience of that feeling thirty
Speaker 1: years after this movie came out, But then also putting
Speaker 1: myself in a movie theater in nineteen ninety five. What
Speaker 1: a scary when I say, like the fantasy in your backyard,
Speaker 1: What a scary situation to think there could be a
Speaker 1: situation where I'm locked into my town and literally, you know,
Speaker 1: a barricade could be put up and if I left, helicopters.
Speaker 2: Would fire at me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But you can imagine too. I mean, this isn't sort
Speaker 1: of like a flu like virus. I mean this is
Speaker 1: like a really turn your insides into.
Speaker 2: A hemorrhagic fever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you you cannot let this get out of
Speaker 1: this barrier.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And and what's scary is that again this is
Speaker 2: this is on steroids, but it's based in the reality
Speaker 2: of a whole family of viruses that do exist, correct, right,
Speaker 2: which is I mean that's terrifying to think about, right, Like,
Speaker 2: like you look at it, Bola and there's one hundred
Speaker 2: percent fatality rate. You know, I can imagine that, you know. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the whole the whole notion. By the way, this town
Speaker 2: it's Cedar Creek in the movie. I forget what it
Speaker 2: was called in real life, but it's it's a northern
Speaker 2: California town. It's about like up near Sacramento. I think
Speaker 2: they shot like Salem's Lot here, hm, which tell me
Speaker 2: this doesn't look like the town that would be Salem's Lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But but the whole, the whole concept of executing a
Speaker 2: lockdown to this degree, like you realize, like we did
Speaker 2: not have lockdowns during COVID, right, right, and that sort
Speaker 2: of became the shorthand right oh, lockdown. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: we were just asked very politely, like just stay away
Speaker 2: from people, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we were able to go to
Speaker 1: target and we were able to do the things.
Speaker 2: We needed to do. That's right, Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: I wondered seeing all those helicopters in the sky. I
Speaker 1: imagine those were probably like CG is some certain I
Speaker 1: thought for the ninety five it looked pretty good.
Speaker 2: That I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I must
Speaker 2: have been CG right, Well not I mean, not all
Speaker 2: of them, but at least a few, yeah, yeah, making
Speaker 2: it look like much more. I think that Wolfgang Peterson
Speaker 2: was a very talented director, and I think he was
Speaker 2: good at these types of thrillers.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny, I'm going to agree with you,
Speaker 1: but I feel like by the way that woman that's
Speaker 1: so so horrifying image like blood coming out of the eyes,
Speaker 1: I think I might have had him in my mind
Speaker 1: as a different sort of director. Oh that's interesting, because
Speaker 1: I feel like he was this person who I mean,
Speaker 1: Doss Boot sure is much celebrated, and so in my
Speaker 1: mind it was like, oh, Wolfgang Peterson, like he does
Speaker 1: these sort of elevated well.
Speaker 2: He also did the never Ending Story, so you know, true.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, but I'm realizing that, No,
Speaker 1: he really was just kind of a talented blockbuster director.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a pulpy yeah, pulpy mid level thrillers.
Speaker 1: You know, totally totally air force one.
Speaker 2: This in the Line of Fire.
Speaker 1: In Line of Fire, of course, which I think maybe
Speaker 1: in my mind might be my favorite of his.
Speaker 2: I definitely agree with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, have you ever seen Doss Boot by the way,
Speaker 1: have you I have seen.
Speaker 2: Us put Yeah it's good. Yeah, it's a good movie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're you're gonna procnew Okay, he of we just saw
Speaker 2: him in a bunch of movies last year. I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh he was yeah, because we did the Dune commentary.
Speaker 2: He was lado A Tredees in the Oh right, that's right,
Speaker 2: that's right. And he's he's the guy in Air Force one,
Speaker 2: you know, the general who like the bad guys want released. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: and you see him like walking out of the prison. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that's that's Urgen Prognous. I assume he just he
Speaker 2: just it's like a non speaking rold Hey, probably just
Speaker 2: did it as a favor for Peterson. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: By the way, did you know that Never Ending Story
Speaker 1: was like re edited for American audiences by Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 2: Wow, I did not know. That's a German film. Wow.
Speaker 1: I would be very curious to see what the original was. Like, yeah, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like this.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so this is the storyline. I kind of
Speaker 2: like that they use this woman as a way to
Speaker 2: sort of individualize what the is going through. Exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And her story is kind of a runner because if
Speaker 2: you're paying attention, she dies m because I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we see what her like sample number is or whatever.
Speaker 2: Oh and and so we find out that her and
Speaker 2: then we see her in a body bag later. Yes,
Speaker 2: and it's just like this if you're like paying attention,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: It's funny because yeah, the movie just completely you know,
Speaker 1: does it turn into this yeah, like you say, more
Speaker 1: individual story. Yes, And I really loved immediately. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it was like she's cast very perfectly or
Speaker 1: something where she seems sweet but brave, scared but brave
Speaker 1: or something. And like, because I didn't remember the movie,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, wait, does she like have something
Speaker 1: to do with the cure?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Is it? But kind?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It's yeah, really sad, really effective, I think so, and
Speaker 2: that you know it it gets to sort of like
Speaker 2: there's a similar beat with the with JT. Wallsh you know,
Speaker 2: in the White House, like as they're mulling, you know
Speaker 2: what they're you know, and what they want to do,
Speaker 2: and you know Sutherland's characters like, oh, we'ch just you know,
Speaker 2: firebombed the town or whatever, and he's like, look at
Speaker 2: these pictures, look at these faces. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I should wait or not, but
Speaker 1: I'll just say it because you brought it up. I
Speaker 1: was like, can a guy get an Oscar nomination for
Speaker 1: forty five seconds.
Speaker 2: Right, that's a great moment.
Speaker 1: He crushes that scene. Yeah, yeah, so good. And I
Speaker 1: was feeling it, like sort of emotions in my chest
Speaker 1: as he was doing that and throwing the pictures down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that too, Like I think J. T. Walsh
Speaker 2: is like uncredited in the movie. I think he just
Speaker 2: showed up. Wow, just walked in, did his thing, walked out.
Speaker 2: They gave him his bag with the dollar sign on it.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was that guy in this era. He
Speaker 2: was so consistently good and he was an archetype all
Speaker 2: all his own you know, hmm, yeah, sadly passed away. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was in shoot, what was that KR Russell movie? Breakdown? Breakdown?
Speaker 2: Here's the bad guy in that, And he was in
Speaker 2: Oh he's in the Negotiator. He's really good in that. Yep.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I'm so smart. Sorry sorry go ahead, no, no,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Not just so smart following that woman because like if
Speaker 1: we were to just see this shot of all these
Speaker 1: town folk walking into a building, yeah, it just wouldn't
Speaker 1: play the same. We wouldn't be identifying with anyone. But
Speaker 1: seeing her, Yeah, now that we kind of know her,
Speaker 1: We've seen an his story. Yep, we're watching her have
Speaker 1: to go. So now it's in a weird way, it's
Speaker 1: almost like she can be a cipher for us. And
Speaker 1: it's like, what if that was you walking through here
Speaker 1: and you were taking all this in and seeing these
Speaker 1: pop up tents in your neighborhood and being like, what
Speaker 1: is going on?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: Really really great choice she is, so something about it
Speaker 1: is just really you really sympathize with it. It looks
Speaker 1: very familiar, though, doesn't she Like I'm trying to I've
Speaker 1: seen her in something not sure.
Speaker 2: See spacey here. I mean, this is definitely the first
Speaker 2: time I saw him. Yeah, I didn't know him by
Speaker 2: name or anything, you know, because the Usual Suspects was
Speaker 2: was after this, right, yeah? Or same year maybe? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that I became aware of him via Usual Suspects.
Speaker 2: But my point is the character was likable enough that
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, dude's got a bull's eye on
Speaker 2: his forehead. You know, that's funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what happens after seven A Time to
Speaker 1: Kill la Confidential Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.
Speaker 1: So like he's, you know, a bug's life obviously American
Speaker 1: beauty all that, Like, this is this is kind of
Speaker 1: the beginning for him, really yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: It isn't, literally, but feah, there's a whole bitch of
Speaker 2: other shit coming. Well no, no, no, I just mean yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean he was in a movie called Swimming with
Speaker 1: Sharks that I'm sure people listening to the show might
Speaker 1: be familiar with, but I don't think that was a
Speaker 1: mainstream hit, right. Likewise, the ref oh Glengarry Glenn Ross.
Speaker 1: That was ninety two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that that would have put him on the
Speaker 2: map for a lot of people. Yeah, this, uh.
Speaker 1: This is like a real like what would you do scenario?
Speaker 1: You know, so he's he's in the room and gets
Speaker 1: a tear in his suit and races out and doesn't
Speaker 1: tell Renee Russo, I know, what would you would you think?
Speaker 2: It was? Okay, that's the thing. An instantaneous infection like that,
Speaker 2: there's no hope of stopping a virus like that. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: but yeah, above and beyond that, it's as we said,
Speaker 2: like there were there's fail safes built in like that
Speaker 2: would be very piss poor technology if a single tear
Speaker 2: would get you instantly infected.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely right, definitely.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is the scene we were talking about
Speaker 2: here with with Walsh as the I'm assuming he's a
Speaker 2: chief of staff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean he's just so like in command in this scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: His performances, voice and and to credit the writers, I
Speaker 1: mean everything he's saying, Yeah, that's right, making his case
Speaker 1: why you shouldn't blow up an entire town of people.
Speaker 2: What a concept. I know.
Speaker 1: Well he convinced me, Zachi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the original Originally Jodn Baker was going
Speaker 2: to play the McClintock character, okay, and Andy, they switched
Speaker 2: it up. They went with with Sutherland. I'm glad they did.
Speaker 2: Like I can, I can see Jodn Baker, I guess.
Speaker 2: But you know what I like about Sutherland is he
Speaker 2: there's this there's this sinister quality to him. Mm hm,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of just under the surface. You know
Speaker 2: that that's very I think that the you know, the
Speaker 2: producers wanted somebody with with an Oliver North quality mm hmmmm,
Speaker 2: which Oliver North might disagree with the characterization.
Speaker 1: You know, he's like on a treadmill right now, going hey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this right here lives. It's a great and
Speaker 2: to see there's the woman who we saw. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's a great performance, great, great scene. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I'm captivated by it looking at the subtitles on Silent Yeah,
Speaker 1: made those images haunt us till the day we die.
Speaker 2: Right, great, I mean you'd like to believe that people
Speaker 2: who are in charge think in those terms. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that's a fool's hope.
Speaker 1: Yep, you hope, you you hope at least, uh, there
Speaker 1: are some Yeah, it's it's harder and harder to believe it,
Speaker 1: but yeah.
Speaker 2: It's I you know, I I just I I believe
Speaker 2: that people are at their core decent. I do too,
Speaker 2: you know. And and you know government work or this
Speaker 2: type of work. You know, it's like you're doing it
Speaker 2: because you believe in service in some capacity. Yeah, or
Speaker 2: at least you did at some point, right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know this is a horrifying concept by the way, too, right,
Speaker 2: like taking all the dead bodies, throwing them in a
Speaker 2: barn and just torching the barn. It's scary. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: and to that point, I think, I think that's why
Speaker 2: we follow that woman through her whole journey, That's why
Speaker 2: we get that JT. Walsh scene because it lends weight
Speaker 2: to that moment of all the bodies being burned in
Speaker 2: they're not just statistics right right right, you know, because
Speaker 2: because here's the thing, because we see that that you know,
Speaker 2: infographic or whatever that shows in forty eight hours and
Speaker 2: it's all just you know, the whole country's infected or
Speaker 2: whatever like, and and it's so big it doesn't it
Speaker 2: stops meaning anything, right, And I think the third act,
Speaker 2: which culminates in this whole thing about about you know,
Speaker 2: destroying this town, we need to be invested in the
Speaker 2: people who live there, right, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what this movie does well also is
Speaker 1: it keeps introducing new threads that are intriguing. So the woman,
Speaker 1: when we see her saying good bye her family, we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen with her? And then just now when
Speaker 1: we see the monkey show up at that little girl's window, Yep,
Speaker 1: you're like, uh, oh, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: it keeps introducing new like something that could possibly you
Speaker 1: can relate to, but like it's the worst version of it,
Speaker 1: Like what if something were was happening, like your daughter
Speaker 1: is sleeping in her bed and this monkey that's infected
Speaker 1: with this virus just shows up at her window. What
Speaker 1: a horrifying scenario. Yeah yeah, but it like you can
Speaker 1: picture it because it's just a normal looking house. And
Speaker 1: so then you're like, well what now, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, now we've we've cut away from that, but
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, what's gonna happen? Is the girl she
Speaker 1: can open the window? Is it?
Speaker 2: You know, like a lot of great threads keep getting
Speaker 2: introduced throughout this movie. Yeah, you're right now, I read
Speaker 2: that Maya Angelou did a rewrite on this.
Speaker 1: I was going to bring that up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And that's one of those things where you
Speaker 2: read it because I read it in the IMDb trivia
Speaker 2: m h and I'm like, is that one of those
Speaker 2: bullshit things that somebody just put there to mess with people?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm right, because you read that and you're like
Speaker 2: that sounds ridiculous. But then you're also like, but who
Speaker 2: would make that up? Well? Did you? Did you look
Speaker 2: it up? Apparently it is true. It is true.
Speaker 1: The writers talk about it and they said it's during
Speaker 1: the ending she was she was brought into.
Speaker 2: Punch.
Speaker 1: I feel weird saying that she's trying to punch up dialogue.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but.
Speaker 1: Their understanding. They said they didn't meet her, but they
Speaker 1: were told that she uh wrote all sorts of dialogue
Speaker 1: for the scene at the end the standoff in the
Speaker 1: helicopter between Hoffman and Yeah, I guess Southerland and Freeman.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess she and Dustin Hoffman collaborated, So I
Speaker 2: would assume it was his dialogue primarily. But I just
Speaker 2: kind of loved that data point my Angelou, author of
Speaker 2: I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings and Outbreak.
Speaker 1: And Outbreak, I know, kind of wild. Yeah, you just
Speaker 1: like suddenly Dustin Hoffman is just like, you know, a
Speaker 1: crescent moon illuminates and you're like, what, like, wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful what he's saying. I just just doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like it seems like it's in the different movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I guess I read.
Speaker 1: Something else the writers were saying was that Dustin Hoffman
Speaker 1: had a habit of rewriting his own dialogue while he
Speaker 1: was filming. And what he would do is he would
Speaker 1: come up with these things he wanted to say, and
Speaker 1: he would have them written out on a dry erase
Speaker 1: board so he could look at them off screen and
Speaker 1: he would do the take and then as soon as
Speaker 1: the take was over, he'd go, oh, no, no, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and the writers were like people would be
Speaker 1: looking around, like, what's going on with this guy? The
Speaker 1: article I read, that's all it said, but adding what
Speaker 1: you said earlier about how insecure he was feeling, that
Speaker 1: makes complete sense. Fascinating, right, like he's having some instincts, yeah,
Speaker 1: or at least feeling like I need to bring something
Speaker 1: to this, but he's not feeling confidence in it. I'd
Speaker 1: be curious what did stay that he did, because obviously
Speaker 1: he's a great actor, and I'm sure he has good instincts.
Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of because like, certainly now in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five we look at Dustin Hoffmann, he's well, he's
Speaker 2: one of the best to ever do it, right, but
Speaker 2: he was very well regarded even back then. Right, So
Speaker 2: in a weird it's like weirdly comforting to know that
Speaker 2: even somebody like Dustin Hoffman, it just deals with like
Speaker 2: do people like me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, there's this whole thing that gets said a
Speaker 1: lot in writers' rooms where when you're pitching an idea,
Speaker 1: and every room I've been In every writer I've ever
Speaker 1: talked to, everyone goes, Okay, this is terrible, but or
Speaker 1: they'll go, Okay, this is like a this is a
Speaker 1: really bad idea, but.
Speaker 2: This is the bad version.
Speaker 1: This is the bad version. Yeah, like that sort of
Speaker 1: everybody does it, and so it is encouraging to know that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: even people who you would think of like, oh well yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're brilliant, they're even like, Okay, well this is
Speaker 1: the bad version, but like we all do it.
Speaker 2: That is comforting. Yeah. So here we go Kevin space
Speaker 2: So here's well, this is the thing. I what seems
Speaker 2: odd to me is we never actually see Spacey die. Hmmm.
Speaker 2: And that seems like he seems like an important enough
Speaker 2: character that you want to have that, right. That's interesting.
Speaker 2: I didn't think about it, right, but you're right, yes,
Speaker 2: he presumably he is dead, you know. I don't think that,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, and yet we never get that death moment.
Speaker 2: I just I was like, did they maybe shoot it
Speaker 2: and just like it didn't work or something, you know.
Speaker 1: Or just to I mean, the movie is over two hours,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I felt like they needed to save time.
Speaker 1: But we do get this moment here where he's convulsing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Rene Russo accidentally pricks her finger, yes, a needle
Speaker 1: that had been used on him, and.
Speaker 2: So not for nothing, Robbie, but maybe like, wait till
Speaker 2: he stops spasming before you have the sharp object next
Speaker 2: to him, you know.
Speaker 1: And I know it's a movie and you have to
Speaker 1: have these sorts of things happen. But I mean, going
Speaker 1: back to what we were saying about writers and or
Speaker 1: creative types and confidence, I mean, these people are human too,
Speaker 1: you know, like smart doctors and scientists and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: they can have get caught up in moments and things
Speaker 1: that seem obvious in hindsight. It's like, well, on the
Speaker 1: heat of the moment, maybe you might make one dumb decision.
Speaker 2: One dumb decision. That's gonna be my that's gonna be
Speaker 2: the title of my autobiography.
Speaker 1: One dumb decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be me against a white background with my
Speaker 2: sleeves rolled up, with your arms crossed, or or are
Speaker 2: you shrugging like well no, I see myself like looking
Speaker 2: sternly at camera. Dum decision? What one didn't dumb decision?
Speaker 2: I like it. I'll read it. Did you watch the
Speaker 2: Siskel and Eber review of this. No, I didn't, which
Speaker 2: I know you tend to do that, right, Yeah, what
Speaker 2: what would they say? Oh? Many were they were going
Speaker 2: at it? Oh? Really they vehemently disagreed on this one.
Speaker 1: Oh what what were the talking points?
Speaker 2: Well, uh, Cisco was not a fan. Okay, Ebert had
Speaker 2: a grand old time.
Speaker 1: I can kind of see that.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, that that tracks. Yeah, And it was very
Speaker 2: funny because Ciskel got really hung up on the fact
Speaker 2: that he's like, Dustin Hoffman looks ridiculous in this you know,
Speaker 2: the has Matt suit or whatever. And he's like, and
Speaker 2: he's married to this bombshell, Renee Russo, and it's like,
Speaker 2: really like, Ebert's like, you know, you called her a bombshell.
Speaker 2: You know, she's a mature, talented actress. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: she's a bombshell. It's like and he's like, and you know,
Speaker 2: he's like, Geene, how else do you he's wearing the hessemensuit.
Speaker 2: How else do you want to be? Like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it looks like, you know, that's how
Speaker 2: I feel. And I'm telling you, man, Roger was was
Speaker 2: gonna put Gene in a headlock. I'm gonna watch it
Speaker 2: sinsor done. Yeah, it felt they were on the cusp.
Speaker 2: It wasn't quite Benji the hunted level, but it was
Speaker 2: getting there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, but but that actually tried. Yeah, that's right, that's.
Speaker 2: Right, that's legendary. Yeah. The if you look at Rotten Tomatoes, right,
Speaker 2: this sits at like fifty five fifty six on that
Speaker 2: and that about tracks. If you look at like the
Speaker 2: major critics split right down the middle.
Speaker 1: I can see that. Yeah, I can see that because
Speaker 1: it's you have to go in. I can see going in.
Speaker 1: I did with certain expectations of its I don't know
Speaker 1: what you want to call it intelligence or something or
Speaker 1: like how seriously it takes the material. But this isn't
Speaker 1: exactly that movie. This is really this is a is
Speaker 1: a popcorn thriller. It is using real world ideas.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So if you go in knowing that, then maybe you
Speaker 1: can kick back and switch your brain off and have
Speaker 1: a fun time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if you go in thinking that this is going
Speaker 1: to actually sort of get into nitty gritty details and truly,
Speaker 1: what would these types do? This ain't that Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the at the time, as we mentioned,
Speaker 2: you know, they were they were rushing to get this
Speaker 2: out or into production, you know, before christ in the
Speaker 2: Hot Zone. And you know that producer Linda opes to
Speaker 2: this day, she's like, we had the better, uh, we
Speaker 2: had the better project. We had the better uh, better package,
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of all the people involvement, and
Speaker 2: she's saying, we had the better script, right. And I
Speaker 2: always like I look at like, you know, had that
Speaker 2: come out, which of the two, would this be thought
Speaker 2: of as the dumb one or the good one? You know?
Speaker 2: You know, because like it's like, oh, Dante's Peak and
Speaker 2: Volcano and you know, Deep Impact and Armageddon, and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: this is this one and this is this one? You know,
Speaker 2: like like if you look at Deep Impact and Armageddon,
Speaker 2: you know, I think both movies have issues, but like
Speaker 2: Deep Impact is the one that's kind of like more
Speaker 2: I don't know, thoughtful, thoughtful. Yeah, I was gonna say cerebral.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, even though it's you know it
Speaker 2: it's not exactly you know, the magnificsen namebers since right.
Speaker 2: But then there's Armageddon, which is just it's what that
Speaker 2: movie is, right, right, And so I'm like, which of
Speaker 2: those was would this one have been.
Speaker 1: You know, probably in my mind the Armageddon.
Speaker 2: Probably probably right, that was my thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which isn't a bad thing.
Speaker 2: No, I think Armageddon, Armageddon. That's a movie that I
Speaker 2: have not revisited a ton, but I feel like we
Speaker 2: will probably end up talking through that at some point, right.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I haven't seen it in a long time,
Speaker 1: but if I had to guess, I'd be willing to guess.
Speaker 1: It was hugely popular when it came out. Yeah, then
Speaker 1: everybody kind of turned on it and said it was
Speaker 1: really stupid. But I think it's probably at a moment
Speaker 1: now where you could watch it and go, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's dumb, but I enjoyed it. Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 1: funny how some movies have that life cycle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Armageddon is definitely that. Although I mean I
Speaker 2: remember seeing it and being like, this movie is pretty dumb.
Speaker 2: I mean it is. It's an opening day in the theater. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's saw, so I don't know, it's easy to get.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And it feels very much of its time too, like
Speaker 1: humor very much.
Speaker 2: So yeah. Yeah, so this here is where we sort
Speaker 2: of like the movie, which is on track as this
Speaker 2: semi grounded, you know, investigative thriller kind of like goes
Speaker 2: it goes off roading a little bit. Yes, yes, and
Speaker 2: it's like, no, we're just gonna do like we're gonna
Speaker 2: cycle through some action movie tropes. Yes, and so that's
Speaker 2: that's a jarring.
Speaker 1: Shift, yes, like almost like hijinks. Yes, right, and then
Speaker 1: we all we get into almost you know, buddy cop
Speaker 1: style banter between Cuba Gooding and Dustin Hoffman and humor,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I was a little not thrown, but I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, oh I didn't. This is not how
Speaker 1: I remember this movie.
Speaker 2: I guess we're doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just like I say, like the
Speaker 1: high jinks of stealing this helicopter, it's not like it's
Speaker 1: handled in a very silly.
Speaker 2: Action movie kind of way. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: But then you also get the moment that's coming up
Speaker 1: where they're going to try to locate the monkey and
Speaker 1: or draw it out, and that feels like that could
Speaker 1: come from a more serious movie too, where it's like
Speaker 1: what the realities of like we need that thing, we
Speaker 1: need to.
Speaker 2: Get the shot.
Speaker 1: This is very tricky, which I really enjoy.
Speaker 2: See that stuff. I'm all on board with, but you know,
Speaker 2: and once we're dog fighting or whatever, like, you know,
Speaker 2: it turns into something a little different.
Speaker 1: Well that and I keep saying I'm getting ahead of it,
Speaker 1: but as long as we're talking about it, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: whole thing where Morgan Freeman gets on the line with
Speaker 1: him and it's just like, whatever you do, don't do
Speaker 1: this thing that could save the day.
Speaker 2: Because that would not be good for us.
Speaker 1: And then you literally get a line from Donald Sutherland
Speaker 1: who's like, wait a minute, that you're telling them how
Speaker 1: they can save the day. And I seriously was like,
Speaker 1: you've got to be kidding me. I mean, I gotta
Speaker 1: be honest, Like the last act of this movie kind
Speaker 1: of feels like it was written by twelve year olds.
Speaker 1: But then you kind of wonder, I mean, we don't
Speaker 1: know the story. It's easy to say that, and we
Speaker 1: don't know the story of the making of this movie.
Speaker 1: I mean, the writers could have turned in some draft
Speaker 1: and been very happy with it, and Warner Brothers is like.
Speaker 2: Not enough action, And I'm willing to bet every cent
Speaker 2: in my savings account that that's what happened. Yes, yes, right,
Speaker 2: because because it's such a clear like digression for everything else,
Speaker 2: Like I think you could have hit most of the
Speaker 2: same dramatic beats, but I think Warner Execs, We're probably like,
Speaker 2: we need some applause moments. And one thing I will
Speaker 2: say is when I watch this isn't granted it was
Speaker 2: at a second run theater, but it was a fairly
Speaker 2: decent sized crowd. I remember, you know when when Morgan
Speaker 2: Freeman does that thing that you're referring to, you had
Speaker 2: people in the card like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 2: you know we can we can view things cynically, me
Speaker 2: like you, Brian, like such as you, well, such as
Speaker 2: both of us. But I'm like, the movie proved successful
Speaker 2: at the box office, so clearly they weren't entirely off
Speaker 2: their rockers for wanting something, you know, more crowd pleasing.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you just need to know what you're
Speaker 1: signing up for.
Speaker 2: What you're signing up for you Yeah. And also this
Speaker 2: feels very of that moment that that very much so,
Speaker 2: and so I think that's part of it is that's
Speaker 2: part of why I watched this movie. Uh, and again
Speaker 2: I haven't seen a ton, but I can feel nostalgic
Speaker 2: for when movies were like this m M, because it
Speaker 2: really it does feel like an artifact, you know, totally, totally,
Speaker 2: and you know you had that funny it's funny bit
Speaker 2: right here where he's like, should I should I cough
Speaker 2: on you? In right right.
Speaker 1: Saranda to this one, and in.
Speaker 2: My mind I choose to believe that was a Maya
Speaker 2: Angelou line where he's like, shall I cough on you? George?
Speaker 1: Actually, I was just thinking of a similar joke where
Speaker 1: it was like at the end where it's like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, you just told them how to save the day.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Billy? Maya Angelou cut to her like, you know, hitting
Speaker 2: save on the computer had given herself a high five. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: nailed it.
Speaker 1: I just thought this was a funny bit of business
Speaker 1: of this woman here in the coast Guard. I can
Speaker 1: make a call oh close closer than his wife would like,
Speaker 1: like what now, she's just an open book. But yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'll probably forget to say it later. But you
Speaker 1: have like a similar moment where you have someone well
Speaker 1: maybe it's not similar, but where you're talking to the
Speaker 1: pilots of that airplane with the bomb and trying to
Speaker 1: reason with them and you're.
Speaker 2: Like, man, what would what do you do? You're that pilot.
Speaker 1: You got your orders, but you also could possibly, you know,
Speaker 1: do the right thing. The history will remember is the
Speaker 1: right thing, even if it means you get court martials
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, and it kind of reminds me, at
Speaker 1: least in feeling of that moment of the two boats
Speaker 1: at the end of The Dark Night, which feels a
Speaker 1: little more weirdly, even though that's a superhero movie, like
Speaker 1: serious or something, or like real human beings and what
Speaker 1: do you do. You're looking at the people and you
Speaker 1: you were the guy who said we should do this,
Speaker 1: but now it's up to you and maybe you won't
Speaker 1: do it. Like, but this, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like the tone. It's funny the same sort of thing
Speaker 1: can be carried out in two different movies and feel
Speaker 1: like they have two different tones to them.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. Well, you know worth mentioning that. You know,
Speaker 2: in its early earliest incarnation, the Batman Versus Superman movie
Speaker 2: was going to be directed by Wolfgang Peterson. That's right.
Speaker 1: I have that script, but I've never read it, have you?
Speaker 2: I have not read it. Yeah, I should do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was you know, I think we've said this before,
Speaker 2: but I mean, you know he did he did Troy,
Speaker 2: which was a pretty big hit, and then he did Poseidon,
Speaker 2: which tanked. Yeah. I never saw that. I didn't see
Speaker 2: it either, but I I for however bad it may
Speaker 2: have been or how bad it may have done, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I would think that Wolfgang Peterson could have continued directing. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: But it's like he just like called it a career
Speaker 2: basically in terms of American movies anyway, and that's what
Speaker 2: he wants, I guess. Yeah. And then yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and then he passed away. When was it like two
Speaker 2: years ago? Oh yeah, it was like twenty It was
Speaker 2: after we did our track for Air Force one. Mm hm.
Speaker 1: It is interesting, though, I mean I think about that
Speaker 1: a lot, especially in entertainment. I mean, you have Juror
Speaker 1: Number two, which just came out, a movie directed by
Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood, who's in his freaking nineties, crazy right, and
Speaker 1: you have Morgan Freeman and is I think late eighties
Speaker 1: now still I mean he's in.
Speaker 2: Well, him and Dustin Offen both.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's still Freeman especially, I mean he's in
Speaker 1: lots of movies. Yeah, you know, it's like they just
Speaker 1: keep going for the love of the game. And it
Speaker 1: when most people kind of retire, you know, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: at some point in their seventies. So it's just kind
Speaker 1: of interesting, you know that it seems more rare when
Speaker 1: we look at it as someone who's in their seventies
Speaker 1: and entertainment and they retire, we go, oh, I wonder
Speaker 1: why they did that, you know, because we're so used
Speaker 1: to seeing so many people just at a good point
Speaker 1: going until they die.
Speaker 2: I mean, Harrison Ford is in his mid eighties, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's still doing his thing. You know. Sorry, I'm having
Speaker 2: a thought here. I was.
Speaker 1: I was wondering, why, Wow, it's really foggy as there
Speaker 1: he's on this ship, and I'm thinking, oh, it's probably
Speaker 1: because the ship is parked in real life and they
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with it, so they had to
Speaker 1: throw in a line like damn, it's foggy.
Speaker 2: That's really funny.
Speaker 1: My Angelou hit save and said, uh, well, I just
Speaker 1: save them the deal of having to make that ship move.
Speaker 2: So funny. I'm just picturing my Andrew, you know, smoking
Speaker 2: chain smoking as she's like cranking out rewrites for Outbreak.
Speaker 2: You know, you're uh, but yeah, anyway, but I like that.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's kind of funny too, And not to pick
Speaker 1: on it, but just you know, his movies get bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger, Like the whole jump from the helicopter to
Speaker 1: the boat, which is a really exciting thing on paper,
Speaker 1: just does not look very exciting in this movie.
Speaker 2: That's well in like there's a way to stage it
Speaker 2: in a way that would I completely agree.
Speaker 1: You're right. I think it's staging. Very lucky that this
Speaker 1: guy took so many polaroids of thinking.
Speaker 2: I thought it would be really funny if the picture
Speaker 2: he's got just a ton of pictures of him doing
Speaker 2: every possible thing with the monkey, Like they're blowing out
Speaker 2: birthday candles together, they're in the bathtub together with boats
Speaker 2: and like.
Speaker 1: Just yeah with like bubble beards.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, And we just we just get this thing
Speaker 2: where Hoffman is just flipping through these pictures and the
Speaker 2: music just gets more and more dramatic. He's just good lord.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just having a moment where I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, she shouldn't be around him.
Speaker 2: But she's sick too. Yeah, she's already sick. Although it
Speaker 2: is it is very like very Hollywood that like she
Speaker 2: goes through the same gestation process for the virus. As
Speaker 2: he looks like a goddamn walking dead refugee, she looks.
Speaker 1: Like a bombshell.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because, like I think Renee russo very attractive,
Speaker 2: very sexy. I would not call her a bombshell. No,
Speaker 2: that's not what I would.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, although, yeah, I know I think she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was very funny because it felt like
Speaker 2: that was that was one of Roger's buttons. I think
Speaker 2: he was right, he was, he was on the correct
Speaker 2: side of that, Yeah, right, right, that that is I
Speaker 2: Jean had a tendency to find these weird things and
Speaker 2: he just get hung up on them.
Speaker 1: I was almost gonna say that when you were talking
Speaker 1: about it, when I said that, that tracks their feelings
Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, Ebert seemed to be able. He was
Speaker 1: more easily swept up in things, that's right. Where yes,
Speaker 1: Ciscol would get hung up on certain.
Speaker 2: Hebert's approach was always like I'm going to meet the
Speaker 2: movie be where it is, and I'm gonna judge it
Speaker 2: based on that, Like I'm not going to compare this
Speaker 2: to you know, some some other movie that's of a
Speaker 2: different genre. You know, so the great Benji the Hunted
Speaker 2: versus full metal jacket thing, right, Uh, And I I'm biased.
Speaker 2: I mean I grew up reading Roger and so that's
Speaker 2: just sort of what what took root in my mind.
Speaker 2: But like I remember, Ciskel gave it thumbs down to,
Speaker 2: uh not Austin parers ace Ventura, which I'm actually I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure Ebert that thumbs down to. I checked, but
Speaker 2: he got real hung up on Jim Carrey having this overbite,
Speaker 2: with this Jim Carrey with this overbyte, and he kept
Speaker 2: doing this. I want to watch that too.
Speaker 1: By the way, I love this, Like this is a
Speaker 1: scenario I really enjoy where it's like someone taking over
Speaker 1: the news because there's this potential catastrophe about that could
Speaker 1: happen in your town, and like holding up a picture
Speaker 1: like have you seen this thing called this number? Like
Speaker 1: that scenario, If I saw that on TV, I would
Speaker 1: find that frightening.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, you know I love that.
Speaker 1: And then I mean in this in particular right where
Speaker 1: it's like if you see this monkey that looks exactly
Speaker 1: like this, and you have this mom look over at
Speaker 1: the refrigerator and this drawing that her daughter's made of
Speaker 1: that monkey with Kranz, It's like, ah, I love it.
Speaker 2: See. I think we needed the slow motion dish drop
Speaker 2: to really emphasize.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right, Yeah, she drops a dish.
Speaker 1: But if you don't do it in slow mowe and
Speaker 1: see it break, did it ever? Do we have a
Speaker 1: dish moment at all?
Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: By the way, I was looking at Rene and Russo
Speaker 1: as we were talking about her the movie after this
Speaker 1: Ransom talk about a movie that has just been completely
Speaker 1: for gotten.
Speaker 2: Dude, percent, I mean you can't watch it. It's not
Speaker 2: available on streaming or anything. Yeah. Yeah, uh. And my
Speaker 2: recollection is that it was a pretty damn good movie.
Speaker 2: I remember I reviewed that from my high school paper. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be willing to bet if you showed
Speaker 1: it to someone who's been conditioned mostly by more recent movies,
Speaker 1: it might feel not silly but broader, pulpy or or whatever.
Speaker 1: But going back to what we're saying about Outbreak in
Speaker 1: the moment, I'm sure it played like Gangbusters.
Speaker 2: In fact, I think I did that was I mean,
Speaker 2: that was a like you said, get me back by
Speaker 2: somedon like people would know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say that all the time weirdly, like it's
Speaker 1: just it's something that lives in my brain.
Speaker 2: Mel Gibson was really freaking good in that movie.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's like, Yeah, it's a really it's Ron Howard
Speaker 1: joint too, which doesn't feel like a Ron Howard movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Delroy Lindo, Delroy Lindo, Yeah, that's help Has
Speaker 2: Garry Sez. Yeah, it's weird how that And again, that's
Speaker 2: this weird phenomenon where it's not available on any streaming platform.
Speaker 2: To the best of my knowledge, I wonder why that is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and and well and Cocuon also or Cocoon two? Is
Speaker 2: it the first one or the second one?
Speaker 1: It might be the first. At least the first one
Speaker 1: I think is yeah, hard to find.
Speaker 2: So is it just Ron Howard movie? Wasn't that Ron Howard? Also?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if it's a matter of who owns
Speaker 1: them or hmmm.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Well, Ransom is Disney, I know that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I I wanted to watch, you know, with David Lynch
Speaker 1: passing recently, I wanted to rewatch some of his movies,
Speaker 1: and so I was gonna watch Wild at Heart And
Speaker 1: that movie's really difficult to find. Oh wow, In fact,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it is available anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it gets held up with you know,
Speaker 1: whoever owns it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's well, you know George Romero's uh uh
Speaker 2: Down of the Dead the seventies one, that's no streaming platform.
Speaker 2: Like I got it on physical media. I had to
Speaker 2: order it from overseas in order to get it. And like,
Speaker 2: I think it's there's you know, somebody uploaded it to YouTube.
Speaker 2: But let's see how long that's up there, you know.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and you think of that, you associate that
Speaker 1: with more older films where it's like, oh, some complicated
Speaker 1: thing they can't work out now because there's been changing
Speaker 1: of the guards and whatever. Who owns these things. But
Speaker 1: I just read this morning that Francis Ford Coppola is
Speaker 1: Megalopolis as of right now, will not have a US
Speaker 1: hard copy release. So if you are interested in owning that,
Speaker 1: you have to buy the region free four K from
Speaker 1: you know, some other country, which is just.
Speaker 2: Well a lot of the time, just you lost me
Speaker 2: at ore. If you're interested in owning that, I.
Speaker 1: Understand, I understand, but I'm just saying like it it.
Speaker 2: Should have the option, the option should exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you would think that's hilarious. But no,
Speaker 1: going back what we just kind of talked over, but
Speaker 1: the uh, what an interesting scenario for this family, right,
Speaker 1: you know, some military guy shows up and is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the monkey that is basically carrying some sort of virus
Speaker 1: that could wipe out humanity, I need your daughter to
Speaker 1: lure him out of the woods, right, you know, like
Speaker 1: that's I like that, that's a And then him having
Speaker 1: to talk to the girl Hoffmann and reason with her,
Speaker 1: and she's like.
Speaker 2: Is he is she gonna be hurt? And it's like no,
Speaker 2: We're gonna put her to sleep and take out all
Speaker 2: of her organs. She won't feel a thing though exactly yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I like that.
Speaker 1: You know what I do feel though, I feel like
Speaker 1: the parents are strangely calm with this scenario.
Speaker 2: I feel like they should. I mean, I know, you
Speaker 2: need your movie.
Speaker 1: It's like I said, it's already over two hours, but
Speaker 1: I feel like they needed the convincing more than the
Speaker 1: daughter in real life would be the situation.
Speaker 2: That's a great point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even watching the moms like oh gee, like
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just be careful.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you're kidding me. If that's my child,
Speaker 1: i'd be freaking out.
Speaker 2: This like this the monkey equivalent of a nuclear bomb,
Speaker 2: and you're like, come, you know, hold it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here, hold out some apples for it.
Speaker 2: But I love the tension in this scene, right, and
Speaker 2: it's it's kind of remarkable how you can you can
Speaker 2: find almost greater tension in smaller scenes. I completely agree, right, yep,
Speaker 2: Because I would offer that this is more tense than
Speaker 2: the the dogfight business that's about to come up.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I think this is a little
Speaker 1: more relatable. Yeah, is part of it. You know, there's
Speaker 1: always something tense about someone needing to take a shot
Speaker 1: and then something steps in front of them and gets
Speaker 1: in the way, and there's you know.
Speaker 2: No, you gotta hurry. Yeah, no, this is this is
Speaker 2: I would say a standout scene.
Speaker 1: I know this is such a silly thought, but I
Speaker 1: was actually thinking with Cuba Gooding Junior, like show me
Speaker 1: the money. Everyone knows that, but like that didn't exist
Speaker 1: in this moment. But like if he were to look
Speaker 1: back on his career, that would be like a phrase
Speaker 1: that would almost like define him in sort of a way.
Speaker 1: It's just funny in this moment.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know that he doesn't he doesn't know what's
Speaker 2: coming as a young actor, you know, he doesn't know
Speaker 2: that snow Dogs is coming.
Speaker 1: Is that the movie where they don't talk? Is that
Speaker 1: the movie where the trailer made it look like the
Speaker 1: dogs talked, so everybody was excited. And then they saw
Speaker 1: the movie and the dogs didn't talk.
Speaker 2: I do not know, but that sounds correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's a dream sequence, but they or
Speaker 1: something in the film, but they made the trailer look
Speaker 1: like that was the movie, him dealing with these funny,
Speaker 1: sassy dogs, and then they showed up, and that's not
Speaker 1: the movie at all. He didn't know that. Zaki did
Speaker 1: know that was gonna happen.
Speaker 2: What was that I remember he was on. Was it
Speaker 2: called boat trip or something?
Speaker 1: Or wait? Am I thinking of kangaroo Jack? You may
Speaker 1: be okay anyway, Sorry, what were saying?
Speaker 2: It was a it was like boat trip?
Speaker 1: Yeah, or it's like, yeah, two guys accidentally go on
Speaker 1: a gay cruise?
Speaker 2: Was that what this one was? Boat trip? I just
Speaker 2: know the I remember the poster with him. It was
Speaker 2: him in Horatio Sands. Yeah, I think it's like a
Speaker 2: big gay panic movie or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't know. He didn't know, Zach, he didn't
Speaker 1: know that was coming.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yes see I just pulled it up
Speaker 2: on on on Wikipedia, and yes, it is indeed gay
Speaker 2: panic movie. You ever been in a you ever been
Speaker 2: in a helicopter like a huie like this a huie. Know.
Speaker 2: I have been in a helicopter, though, and it was
Speaker 2: really cool. Have you? I have not. I find it frightening.
Speaker 1: Understandable. Yeah, when you look at them, they seem very fragile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of things that could go wrong.
Speaker 1: But I've just always thought helicopters were amazing and not
Speaker 1: like I went on some super exciting version. It was
Speaker 1: like Branson, Missouri or something, and you know, a tour
Speaker 1: over a lake or something. But you got to put
Speaker 1: the headset on and talk. And I remember my brother
Speaker 1: kept saying me and my brother kept being like, you
Speaker 1: see the lake over? You know, yes, I do see
Speaker 1: the lake over like a bunch of jackasses. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure the pilot was like, just kill me, kill me
Speaker 1: or copy. We're probably saying copy funny, but yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: something I I dig is seeing like the second unit
Speaker 1: of these real vehicles here. Yeah, you know, it feels
Speaker 1: like you might take a little more shortcuts when you
Speaker 1: can these days, because you can afford it, and effects
Speaker 1: look as good as they do. But there's just something
Speaker 1: about the lumbering weight of that big plane with the
Speaker 1: bomb on it and these helicopters where it just feels,
Speaker 1: I don't know, hard you like filming all of this,
Speaker 1: and there's something about that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate see all this stuff here. Yeah, appreciation of
Speaker 2: the second unit I outstanding, which I concur with you on.
Speaker 2: But it's such a weird diversion from what this movie
Speaker 2: is actually supposed to be about. Definitely right, And given
Speaker 2: that this movie is is, you know, twoh eight, you
Speaker 2: could have easily cut out all of this business with
Speaker 2: Daniels and Salt being chased by you know, McClintock's you know,
Speaker 2: helicopter whatever and just get right to the showdown with
Speaker 2: the bomber. I completely agree.
Speaker 1: I think honestly, what might be more effective is if
Speaker 1: you saw Dustin Hoffman in a dim lit room, sweat
Speaker 1: on his brow close ups trying to talk that plane down. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that, Yeah, so this is this. I mean,
Speaker 1: I do appreciate this because it's difficult, like when they
Speaker 1: put the plane going under the bridge kind of like
Speaker 1: Terminator or two. But I will say I'm going to
Speaker 1: speak out of both sides of my mouth. I also
Speaker 1: don't find this scene very exciting.
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you. Yeah, yeah, well, I think
Speaker 2: the reason for that is because it exists outside of
Speaker 2: the world the rest of the film has attempted to create.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Right, Like again we're talking about it. This
Speaker 2: is the whole movie is kind of heightened, and it is,
Speaker 2: and you know, but like there there's the appearance of
Speaker 2: being somewhat grounded, and then and then we get this
Speaker 2: very obvious rear projection and helicopters firing and stuff, and
Speaker 2: it's just kind of yeah, you're like, Okay, well, I
Speaker 2: know Dustin Hoffen is not gonna die here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I don't know, going back to what you said,
Speaker 1: are I don't know that it's stage very.
Speaker 2: Well Yeah, no, I think I think that's part of it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not really tracking what's happening or this the
Speaker 1: oh I don't want him to reach here or if
Speaker 1: that guy gets there, that's bad. Like, I'm not feeling
Speaker 1: any of that.
Speaker 2: I'm just watching second unit of Helicopters, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of cut together. Well, I think part okay, so we know,
Speaker 2: we know that our guys are not gonna get killed, right,
Speaker 2: So that that's one element of drama that's removed. So
Speaker 2: then you say, okay, well then we should have a
Speaker 2: ticking clock, right, and and that's where I think, like,
Speaker 2: you know, you could have maybe heightened this idea that
Speaker 2: that Renee Russo is dying and she's got this much
Speaker 2: time before a vaccine won't work or something, you know,
Speaker 2: something like that, totally right. And then and then we're
Speaker 2: in a situation where the clock is ticking, and so
Speaker 2: every every second of delay, that's what we're like, come on,
Speaker 2: come on, you know, hurry.
Speaker 1: That's a great, great point, Zachie. Yeah, because then you
Speaker 1: get this business here where they fake their they start
Speaker 1: the forest fire that ends up burning down all all
Speaker 1: of the northern California. They're really good at point I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, come on, we got enough problems in it.
Speaker 1: That should be the after credits sequence. You know, this
Speaker 1: blaze is getting out of control, it's a outbreak.
Speaker 2: Well, as a result, they burning down this fire. They
Speaker 2: unearthed some some hidden animal that has its own virus inside.
Speaker 2: There you go, that's even better.
Speaker 1: I was gonna just say, yeah, the second movie is
Speaker 1: about trying to put out the fire, but you're that's
Speaker 1: even better. That's on brand here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the post credit scene, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's funny. Yeah. This whole thing, like with with the
Speaker 2: helicopter flying low and again, it's just it feels like
Speaker 2: it's in the wrong movie.
Speaker 1: You know, you're toltally that whole thing, You're right, that
Speaker 1: could all be lifted and we wouldn't ess.
Speaker 2: It like it wouldn't impact the drama, you know.
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, you could literally do the exhale of
Speaker 1: the whole getting the dart and to the monkey and
Speaker 1: then cut to this shot we're seeing right here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that's about five minutes that you could save.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just like go go go, we don't have time.
Speaker 1: My wife is dying, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that's all be like your wife's air okay,
Speaker 2: ex wife, and then that would be you know yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: m yeah, yeah, that could be our fan edit. Let's
Speaker 2: do like the tofer Grace version exactly. Yes, he's like
Speaker 2: lesser known movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which he did a fan at it of the
Speaker 1: first the prequels, right, he turned the three movies.
Speaker 2: Into one, yes? Or was that the Hobbit?
Speaker 1: I'm I know he did Star Wars for sure.
Speaker 2: He may have done the Hobbit also. I feel like
Speaker 2: he did the Hobbit also.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was one of those things where he'd
Speaker 1: screen it for friends and stuff and people would talk
Speaker 1: about how brilliant it was and I'm like.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to see it. Yeah, seriously, this is
Speaker 2: a this is a good scene. This is I agree.
Speaker 1: You know, you got like a couple and the relationship
Speaker 1: is ending and they've been through all this together and
Speaker 1: she's dying and he's got you know, we know she's contagious,
Speaker 1: and he's got the has Matt suit on, but he
Speaker 1: takes the mask off.
Speaker 2: I love it. What a guy. Now there's a man, Brian,
Speaker 2: there's a man.
Speaker 1: That's like, you know, you hear that thing. It's like
Speaker 1: a meme basically where a girlfriend asks the boyfriend, would
Speaker 1: you love me if I was a worm?
Speaker 2: Do you know this? No? Like, would you still love
Speaker 2: me if I was a worm? You know?
Speaker 1: Kind of like these weird situations where it's like I, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like answers. This is like would
Speaker 1: you love me if I had like a flesh eating
Speaker 1: virus and I was contagious and you wearing a hazmat suit?
Speaker 2: Would you take the helmet off? Uh? It's a note
Speaker 2: from me. As I lean forward into the Mike Simon
Speaker 2: Cowell style, that's a note from me. Yeah. See, I
Speaker 2: can easily see Harrison Ford playing this role, Yes, I could.
Speaker 2: I could even see mid nineties Mel Gibson playing this
Speaker 2: role definitely, So I can see that being the You know,
Speaker 2: it's harder for me to see stallone. You know, I
Speaker 2: feel bad, I'm like picking on stallone. He's good at
Speaker 2: what he's good at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I agree with you, well, you at a
Speaker 1: great point where it's like we never think he could lose.
Speaker 1: I gotta admit I'm a little curious to see the
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford version, just to see the different kind of
Speaker 1: energy and what he brings. And but I think ultimately Hoffman.
Speaker 2: Is the right choice. Hoffman is the right choice. But
Speaker 2: I feel like Harrison Ford had had that unique presence
Speaker 2: where you believed he could throw up bunch. But you
Speaker 2: also believed he was sensitive and smart. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: trick man, like Harrison Ford was a unicorn. Yeah at
Speaker 2: his prime, what he was able to convey and why
Speaker 2: audiences wanted to see him. M hmm, it's amazing, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny. I just saw a picture
Speaker 1: of him with Clista Flockhart on Reddit or something, and
Speaker 1: I think he was in his eighties, and I was like,
Speaker 1: damn it, that's a handsome guy. I'm telling I mean,
Speaker 1: he's just like you said. I mean, he's he's a unicorn.
Speaker 2: He's yeah, and he's one of those people.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think people say this very often.
Speaker 1: He he's a compelling actor, but is he an actor
Speaker 1: with a lot of range? I don't really know that
Speaker 1: he is, to be honest, but the thing he does,
Speaker 1: we all love it.
Speaker 2: Well, here's what we know. Wolfgang Peterson wouldn't have had
Speaker 2: to act out how to turn towards camera per Dustin Hoffman.
Speaker 2: Harrison Ford would have know how to do that. Like that.
Speaker 2: I find that interesting, right, Like Dustin Hoffman occupying a
Speaker 2: very different lane than Harrison Ford, but he felt very
Speaker 2: he felt self conscious enough to verbalize that.
Speaker 1: I mean that specific thing, like tell me how to
Speaker 1: turn That is just like clearly someone who's in their head.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what's interesting, by the way, is that
Speaker 2: originally Dustin Hoffman was gonna be in Blade Runner, and
Speaker 2: then he backed out and and it went to Harrison Ford. Wow,
Speaker 2: talk about different, Like what would that movie be?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, I can picture that, But like I
Speaker 1: just said about this movie, that's not the version I want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think things sort of went the way
Speaker 2: they needed to, by the way, So so yes, Dustin
Speaker 2: Hoffman did this grand romantic gesture exposing himself to his
Speaker 2: wife here, and then the vaccine or whatever it is
Speaker 2: you know, comes in and he holds her up to it.
Speaker 1: It would be kind of funny if he's like, I'll
Speaker 1: take that first. There's two bags, right, we have two.
Speaker 2: Bags of orse. They plug it in and she starts convulsing,
Speaker 2: and he's just like, oh, right, I made a mistake.
Speaker 2: Had he had a lot pinned on that vaccine working,
Speaker 2: you know he did? Yes, Now, what's funny about this
Speaker 2: this standoff scene with the with the bomber, which I
Speaker 2: think as as a piece of drama, I think it
Speaker 2: works for the most part, But there's an episode of
Speaker 2: the Clerk's animated series about an outbreak Okay that uses
Speaker 2: this exact thing. Oh really, where it's like Dante is
Speaker 2: trying to get through to the bombers before they bombed
Speaker 2: the town. And I'm pretty sure the pilot on the
Speaker 2: bomber is voiced by Brian Cranston, by the way, oh funny,
Speaker 2: and and uh, he's like we're all here, you know.
Speaker 2: He's like, uh, you know, we have a cure whatever. Uh.
Speaker 2: And he's like, my name is Dante, and then like
Speaker 2: Randall pipes up. He's like and he's gay. He's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not, you know. And then and then the bomber
Speaker 2: pilot voice by Brian Cranston's like, Dante, are you gay?
Speaker 2: If you are, you should feel willing to, you know,
Speaker 2: come out or whatever. Like is this whole thing that's
Speaker 2: so funny? He is it?
Speaker 1: Because I just watched DoD Day Afternoon for the first
Speaker 1: time last night, and there's that whole moment where they
Speaker 1: say that the police say, oh, yeah, there's two gay
Speaker 1: men inside the bank robbing, and the one guy's like what,
Speaker 1: like no, tell them, Like his whole thing becomes obsessed
Speaker 1: with telling them that he's not gay or whatever. That's weird.
Speaker 1: The overlap that's happening right now is very strange.
Speaker 2: To me, you know. But in that vein, I could
Speaker 2: I could have seen Pacino playing the Hoffman role in
Speaker 2: this movie. I can see that too. Very different energy,
Speaker 2: but I can see that. I could see that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: old Town gonna die. I gotta tell you, the helmet's
Speaker 2: coming off it. I'm here with you. Go shoot, what
Speaker 2: do you gotta say? Smack? I like that me too.
Speaker 2: So originally this movie is supposed to end with them
Speaker 2: dropping the bomb on the town. If this had been
Speaker 2: made in the seventies, that's the ending we would have gotten. See, Well,
Speaker 2: that's the point. I'm like, I don't even understand that,
Speaker 2: because I don't know how the movie that we've seen
Speaker 2: up to this point could end that way.
Speaker 1: No, I no, no, I can appreciate a movie that
Speaker 1: does that.
Speaker 2: If it had led to that.
Speaker 1: Type of an ending, that's the point. It's making a point.
Speaker 1: But here it would just feel like being subversive for
Speaker 1: subversive sake.
Speaker 2: Like what I read is that it was not only
Speaker 2: scripted that way, but the effects with the bomb detonating
Speaker 2: the water. It was originally showing that it was the
Speaker 2: town being destroyed, and after test screenings they changed it.
Speaker 2: What which I don't again I'm not understanding that. No, right,
Speaker 2: so what's the ending? Like, I mean, believe in nothing
Speaker 2: the everything this guy hero work for you, Like, it
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me. Like maybe maybe the town
Speaker 2: blows up and there's a like, you know, the word
Speaker 2: gets out and you know, McClintock goes to prison or
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: Or I could maybe see then Dustin Hoffin being like
Speaker 1: damn it, you know, like they like it turns into
Speaker 1: a this is what could happen, you know kind of
Speaker 1: thing like if you know you don't you're not paying
Speaker 1: attention and if you don't listen to the doctor's telling you,
Speaker 1: you know, like they might blow up your town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I can kind of see that, Oh this is
Speaker 1: this that's like Billy.
Speaker 2: Just told him how to stop the Oh well, well
Speaker 2: then Billy, are you dumb or something?
Speaker 1: You just told him how to stop.
Speaker 2: The That's like for the audience, I feel like, for
Speaker 2: the for the for the slower on the uptake people
Speaker 2: in the audience, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that feels like you kick the writers out of
Speaker 1: the room. You're like, look, this is what we need
Speaker 1: to happen. Just pay someone twenty thousand dollars to rewrite
Speaker 1: the third act. And some executive is like saying, like,
Speaker 1: all right, get this down, and he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: does a line.
Speaker 2: Like Billy, are you dumb or something? He almost blew
Speaker 2: up the oh and then he realizes and the guy
Speaker 2: just collecting the checks like huh huh, like writing it
Speaker 2: down to the leftop. But I think this idea of
Speaker 2: of the the moral contest here that's effective dramatically. Yes,
Speaker 2: I don't think you need Morgan Freeman to be like
Speaker 2: so definitely don't be rut in front of them, say
Speaker 2: me understand.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah we are you saying then sorry, because
Speaker 1: I was sort of half reading h if they just
Speaker 1: did it on their own volition yeah, or or we will.
Speaker 1: We are getting in your way. You are going to
Speaker 1: have to get through us first, instead of needing to
Speaker 1: be told that that was going.
Speaker 2: To have a conversation between Salt and Daniels. Assault is like, sir,
Speaker 2: if we're in their glide path, there's no way they
Speaker 2: can get around us. And then Hoffin's like, and then
Speaker 2: they can't drop the bomb. You know, yeah, do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what you're right.
Speaker 1: Like, it's like, yeah, but these guys have orders and
Speaker 1: there's a real chance that they might plow through us anyway, Like,
Speaker 1: do it. I don't care if there's a chance.
Speaker 2: See, I'm sure the filmmakers are like, we also need
Speaker 2: to really clarify that that, you know, Billy is on
Speaker 2: the side of the angels, right, mm hmm. But I
Speaker 2: think you could do that just as well by having
Speaker 2: the people in that bunker being like, sir, he's in
Speaker 2: the glidepath that they like they can't move, and you
Speaker 2: just cut to Billy and he's smiling, you know, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: I see.
Speaker 2: I would like that. Yeah, I feel like that would.
Speaker 1: Work better, and that's probably more likely what they would do.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I feel like audiences scrutinize even harder as time marches on. Right,
Speaker 1: audiences are less willing to swallow like on the nose
Speaker 1: types of dialogue.
Speaker 2: And but again, I will say, I remember watching this
Speaker 2: and Theena and that Booley are you dumb or something?
Speaker 2: You just told him and people in the audience, so yeah,
Speaker 2: hey worked on that level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, But again, yeah, we're judging something
Speaker 1: that was made for nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a very dumb time. We were a stupid stupid people,
Speaker 2: weren't we, Brian, We know we were there, We lived it.
Speaker 2: We were dumb.
Speaker 1: Oh man, is there any like who could like rile
Speaker 1: more feelings inside of you? What actor taking a microphone
Speaker 1: and being like you will stand down? Yeah right, you know,
Speaker 1: like Margan Freeman saying that is like, yes, sir, you
Speaker 1: will place mclinn talk under arrest damn.
Speaker 2: And then and then our guy gets the satisfaction of
Speaker 2: arresting him. That's what I'm saying, Man, be careful who
Speaker 2: you piss off on the way up, because you gotta
Speaker 2: pass him on the way down. That's right, That's right.
Speaker 1: And I love the Sutherland even addresses it like you're
Speaker 1: loving this.
Speaker 2: Aren't you? He was you know, he was a singular presence.
Speaker 2: Donald Sotherland, you know we'll never see his kind again,
Speaker 2: you know, absolutely? Yeah, So Dale died that that actor.
Speaker 2: He's also in JFK in the sequence with with Donald,
Speaker 2: Like Donald Southerland has the flashback, you know, Oh funny,
Speaker 2: and he's the guy he's giving Sutherland orders. So it's just.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I almost because that's the movie
Speaker 1: we're watching at the moment. Like I almost wish that
Speaker 1: the Dale Dye had had some sort of snarky lineback
Speaker 1: or repeated something ironically back to Sutherland.
Speaker 2: But it makes more sense that someone in his position
Speaker 2: wouldn't get more stoic. Yeah, and he's like a military advisor,
Speaker 2: so he would know, yeah, yeah, exactly, look at look
Speaker 2: at that bombshell, Rene Russo. Now again, bear in mind
Speaker 2: she she's, you know, more than twenty four hours into
Speaker 2: this thing, which is liquefying your organs. That's true.
Speaker 1: What is not being reversed inside of her?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 1: That's It's like, that is a really good point, Zachi.
Speaker 2: Right, Like the movie is really escalating the speed for
Speaker 2: the process of the virus and how quickly it can
Speaker 2: be undone, because I think I think once your organs
Speaker 2: are liquefied or that process has begun, I don't think
Speaker 2: you just caught a sort of you know, you can't
Speaker 2: do like the hit fifteen seconds back button.
Speaker 1: And you know what they should have done is they
Speaker 1: should have shown the insides kind of like Allah three
Speaker 1: kings and you see them melting. But then once she
Speaker 1: takes the stuff, it's like Terminator two with like the mercury,
Speaker 1: you know, liquid stuff like finding one another and reforming
Speaker 1: into a solid shape.
Speaker 2: And we see her heart like like I like the
Speaker 2: flowers from e te reblooming or whatever. You don't see that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: What I would have loved is like, uh, oh, thank god,
Speaker 1: you're doing all right?
Speaker 2: It worked? It worked?
Speaker 1: Did they get it in time to Kevin Spacey? And
Speaker 1: we just see in the foreground, like his gurney with
Speaker 1: him completely dead, like like being wheeled past. She's like,
Speaker 1: I sure, hope, So I'm sure they did credits with
Speaker 1: the machine. It's being wheeled past.
Speaker 2: Oh man, wow, it's over. Yeah, the credits are rolling
Speaker 2: all right. So outbreak thirty years later, what are we thinking? Uh?
Speaker 1: Sorry, I know what you're getting into. This is a
Speaker 1: complete mid nineties popcorn flick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't quite know that when I was getting back
Speaker 1: into it, and I was a little like, what but
Speaker 1: watching it now here with you and enjoying the parts
Speaker 1: that are enjoyable and kind of laughing at the parts
Speaker 1: that are laughable, like total fun throwback.
Speaker 2: It's very much of an era. And that's one thing
Speaker 2: that you know, I I am tickled whenever I get
Speaker 2: a chance to sort of dip back into the way
Speaker 2: blockbusters used to be. You know, and I say this
Speaker 2: all the time, like normalize mid budget movies with mid
Speaker 2: budget expectations. Totally and you know it. I think it
Speaker 2: hard arkens back to a time we're going to the
Speaker 2: movies was a primary, you know, source of entertainment, and
Speaker 2: so people would go and there was more of an
Speaker 2: opportunity for a diverse slate of things like this. Totally,
Speaker 2: totally right. I mean when we look at the type
Speaker 2: the movies that are turning thirty this year, there's only
Speaker 2: one superhero in the mix, and that's that's a Batman. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess judge dread. So let's say one and a
Speaker 2: half superheroes. Sure, sure, but you know you got your
Speaker 2: water World, you got your Apollo thirteen, you got your
Speaker 2: you know, you got your this right here mm hmmm hm,
Speaker 2: a lot of diverse, diverse and I appreciate that. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 2: definitely yes, but hey, you know this is this is
Speaker 2: definitely it has a different flavor now five years post pandemic,
Speaker 2: I will say that it's true.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it plays. You bring new things to it
Speaker 1: that maybe you would not have in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: That's very true. But hey, let us know. Let us
Speaker 2: know your thoughts about Outbreak. Is this your first time
Speaker 2: watching it, or are you revisiting it? Or just are
Speaker 2: you listening to our thoughts? What did you think? You
Speaker 2: can email us at moviefilm podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: You can also hit like on our Facebook page Facebook
Speaker 2: dot com slash moviefilm podcast and message us there. We
Speaker 2: also have a Patreon page Bran, Yes, sir.
Speaker 1: If you head over to patreon dot com slash moviefilm
Speaker 1: podcast and hit subscribe for only five dollars a month,
Speaker 1: you'll find every commentary we've ever done, and every episode
Speaker 1: and commentary we do moving forward, absolutely ad free. The
Speaker 1: money also helps support us and help sustain producing this show,
Speaker 1: So if you're interested in able, please head over to
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash moviefilm podcast and subscribe.
Speaker 2: We'd be very grateful, We certainly would. Yeah, And if
Speaker 2: you're looking for us outside of the show, you can
Speaker 2: find me on social media at Zaki's Corner. That's the
Speaker 2: a Ki S Corner. You can find me on Blue
Speaker 2: Sky and Threads and Instagram. I'm also right for the
Speaker 2: San Francisco Chronicle and The Rap and IGN and you
Speaker 2: can look for my reviews there. Brian, anything you want
Speaker 2: to hype up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, episodes I've written of Puppy Dog Pals and Young
Speaker 1: Jedi Adventures are available to stream on Disney Plus.
Speaker 2: Here we go, and with that on behalf of my
Speaker 2: partner Brian holl. My name is Zachie Hasa. This has
Speaker 2: been our movie film commentary for Outbreak. We'll catch you
Speaker 2: next time. Thanks folks,