WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.680 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.400 free access to these shows and a ton of other 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.120 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 4 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.759 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 5 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.759 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.559 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 7 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.079 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 8 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.800 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 9 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.719 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 10 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.000 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 11 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.479 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 12 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.320 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 13 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.960 we're approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive 14 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.359 into our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.359 some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long 16 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.439 form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout 17 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:53.600 the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. We have 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.240 a streamline sign up for me and you can pay 19 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.840 with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit 20 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.119 card in one or two minutes from right now, you 21 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.240 can be a VIP member and diving into our library. 22 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:05.120 PW torch dot com, slash Go VIP. 23 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.959 Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller 24 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:23.640 Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, 25 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:27.760 where Wade Keller interviews one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. 26 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.280 Ten years ago. This week I interviewed John Piermarini, a 27 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.560 frequent guest during this era of my podcasting. He is 28 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.480 an ex creative team member from around the twenty ten era, 29 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.280 and he shared a ton of insights about his time 30 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:45.799 in WWE, and he continued to follow the product and 31 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.040 gave insights through the lens of somebody who worked alongside 32 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.560 Vincickmann and some of WWE's top stars. This episode included 33 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.159 his thoughts on what shouldn't be assumed about the leaked 34 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:01.640 raw script that week, also his experience dealing with Stephanie 35 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:06.239 McMahon backstage, how promos are actually written, planned and practiced, 36 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.759 His thoughts on roman arrange his push and specifically what 37 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.719 could accelerate his growth as a character. How would Triple 38 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:16.400 H run WWE differently, creatively than Vince McMahon. Well, let's 39 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:18.560 see how accurate he was as we listened back to 40 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.159 this from ten years ago. Also what's missing from the 41 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.360 Bree Nicky Angle so far and much more so fascinating 42 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:29.400 two plus hours of insights sharing first hand backstage experience 43 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:33.000 from his time working around Vince hook Mann, John Cena 44 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.879 and others of that era. This originally live streamed on 45 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:39.879 September fifth, twenty fourteen, and it is today's Wade Keller 46 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:44.159 Pro Wrestling Podcast Ten years Ago Interview Classic for Thursday, 47 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.840 September fifth, twenty twenty four Here we. 48 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:55.199 Go now, Welcome to thep W Torch Live cast. I 49 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.360 am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling 50 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.919 Torch weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, back when a 51 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.599 man named Ronald Reagan was president of the country, and 52 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.120 also PW torch dot Com, updated every day with tons 53 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.759 of news, exclusive features, the SPW Torch feature and more, 54 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:16.039 and also the PW Torch app available on Android and 55 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.479 iPhones and iPads for that matter, and also our sister site, 56 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:24.840 mmatorch dot Com and the MMA Torch app. Our apps 57 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:26.599 are free, so download him if you're a UFC fan 58 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.879 or wwefan or just pollist at MMA in general. Download 59 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.840 download our free apps on your on your device, or 60 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:37.159 please visit us mmatorch dot com and pw torch dot com. 61 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.479 A big MMA weekend, so it's a good time to 62 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.719 go to MMA torch dot com if you haven't before 63 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.960 and check out our top shelf coverage of the sport 64 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:51.039 of MMA. It is Friday, September fifth, twenty fourteen, and 65 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.479 I am joined by John Piermarini here for interview Friday. 66 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.080 John is a semi regular guest here on the show 67 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.400 and ex WWE creative team member. John, was it two 68 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:02.840 thousand and eight through two thousand and nine or two 69 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:04.560 thousand and nine and twenty ten that you were part 70 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:05.120 of the company. 71 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.080 Yeah, it was two thousand and nine and twenty ten. 72 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:12.800 Okay, yep. So John is back and he is always 73 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:14.960 There's so much has happened since last time you're on 74 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.439 at the beginning of June. John, I am really curious 75 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.199 to hear your thoughts on many things. But we also 76 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.560 invite callers to call in if you have a question 77 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:26.319 about today's WWE or some behind the scenes happenings. Back 78 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:29.040 in two thousand and nine, and twenty ten. The right 79 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:30.959 guy is on the show to answer your questions. So 80 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.279 you can call six four six seven two one nine 81 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:38.040 eight two Weights or email p W Torch Live Cast 82 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.879 at gmail dot com. It's simply the name of the 83 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.040 show at Gmail. So PW Torchlivecast at gmail dot com. 84 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.519 Quick programming note before we go further. Though we had 85 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.439 advertised Evan Bourne or Matt Sidel for today's show, he 86 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.720 ended up with a scheduling conflict both this Friday and 87 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.120 next Friday, so we weren't able to reschedule Eaven for 88 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:57.800 next Friday. So what we've done at switch Days, so 89 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:02.160 James Caldwell and Greg Parks will be hosting next Friday interview. 90 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:05.000 Friday moves to Thursday next week, which happens on occasion. 91 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.600 I've done that two or three times in the past. 92 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:10.399 So Matt Sidel, known as Evan Borne in WWE, he 93 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.199 will be joining me next Thursday and expected to be 94 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.439 a really good interview, and he told me today that 95 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.839 he'll have something that he can announce by then. Also 96 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.319 that'll make his appearance more relevant, So tune in that 97 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:23.240 it should be a really good interview and I am 98 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.600 looking forward to that one, John, I'm trying to think, 99 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:28.040 I don't have I should know the day right now. 100 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.600 If Evan Bourne was active while you were there, wasn't. 101 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:32.000 He he was? 102 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.879 Yes, Yeah, let's start with that. What did you think 103 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:38.319 of Evanborne's potential and what was he viewed like by 104 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.759 people more powerful than you, and what was he viewed 105 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:42.959 for viewed as by you? 106 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.319 You know, it was a little bit different in you know, 107 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.360 two thousand and nine, twenty ten as far as the 108 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:56.240 mid card and undercard was considered, because today it seems 109 00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.160 like they're more utilized than they were. When I was there. 110 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.399 It was mostly we had the A story, maybe a 111 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.199 B story, and that was it, and then everything else 112 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.600 was just filler. So Evan Bourne just kind of fell 113 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:13.680 into that. Well, you know, he's exciting, he gets a pop, 114 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:16.160 and so we'll find a place for him somewhere on 115 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.920 the card. But outside of that, there was never really 116 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:24.439 any effort put into creating, you know, a compelling story 117 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.199 for him, or really diving into his character and trying 118 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.360 to find a way to evolve it or really get 119 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.839 it involved. For the most part, I think it was 120 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:39.480 after I left that they finally started pushing him with Kofi. 121 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.600 I don't know the timeframe on that. It might have 122 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.680 been right after, it might have been a couple of 123 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.399 years after. But yeah, he wasn't the you know. And 124 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:55.720 again he might have been seen as, you know, a 125 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.079 potential big star. I don't think so, because there was 126 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.519 never a point where even someone like Kochie Kingston where 127 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.720 we thought he had some sort of potential and we 128 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.000 wanted to push him right at least that was discussed 129 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:12.199 and we gave it an opportunity. But with Evan Bourne, 130 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:16.120 I don't remember his name really ever coming up as 131 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:17.920 far as you know, really trying to come up with 132 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:18.600 something for him. 133 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.040 He's what Triple Ah would call our he filled our spot, 134 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.199 monkey's slot on the rock. Yeah, let's let's let's keep 135 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:27.000 those internet fans happy. You like to go to those 136 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:28.959 shows row and flip flops and jumps around, and that 137 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:30.519 we got Evan Morn so we don't need we don't 138 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:32.560 need anybody else like him. You know. Stuff like that 139 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.319 is kind of thing that I think, you know, toally 140 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:37.160 just known to say so, Yeah, I mean, Evan is 141 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:40.319 Evans all of those guys. I've been a huge, huge 142 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:42.560 fan of his work. I saw his first Roh tryout 143 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.920 match ever in person, and just he was remarkable. And 144 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:48.879 I was backstage when when Gabe Spolski greeted him right afterwards, 145 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.839 and Gabe said, you're hired. Will you come with us 146 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:55.360 tomorrow to Chicago? And he was like, yeah, yes, So 147 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:56.959 he's really impressive at first sight. 148 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:59.519 Yeah, yeah, I was a fan of as well. I 149 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.920 actually worked with him very briefly with the I always 150 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.360 forget the name of it, but when I was at 151 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.720 MTV with the MTV Wrestling show that we did, he 152 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:12.160 was one of the talent on there. I actually don't 153 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:17.040 think he was used too much. Again that that whole 154 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.959 time is kind of foggy with that whole promotion, but 155 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.800 I do know he was on the pilot episode at least, 156 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.319 and he had a valet and I think he went 157 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:29.079 by Matt Sidell. But yeah, I liked him. I was 158 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:31.680 a fan. But you know, and we've discussed this at 159 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:36.120 length in previous interviews, but there were certain guys that 160 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.799 you know, you would you would attach yourself to or 161 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.399 see potential in and really kind of die on a 162 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:45.639 mountain to try to get that person over and get 163 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.840 that person a story. And then there was guys that 164 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:50.799 you just kind of knew. I mean, I could come 165 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.639 up with something for him, but odds of it actually 166 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:56.679 taking off or slim, and I kind of felt that 167 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:59.639 same thing kind of applied to Evan Bourne. 168 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:02.720 If you're just joining us, John Pierremarini is the voice 169 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:04.879 that you just heard. He is an nex WDWE creative 170 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.320 team member in two thousand and nine twenty ten. And 171 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.080 we are live on the air at five thirty eight Eastern, 172 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.320 two thirty eight Pacific time and Ryan Central Time four 173 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:16.600 thirty apm on Friday, September fifth, and this is the 174 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.759 PW Torch Live Cast. We are live every single day 175 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.440 Monday through Friday and sometimes Sundays after major pay per views, 176 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.919 and you can check our schedule at PW torch livecast 177 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.000 dot com. But generally speaking, the show is on the 178 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.639 hour before Raw on Mondays and then live at five 179 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:36.320 thirty Eastern Tuesday through Friday. We also have East Coastcast 180 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:40.600 dot com, which is a sister wrestling podcast hosted by 181 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.879 Travis Andre and sometimes you'll hear Travis here on the 182 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.360 live cast on Mondays with Bruce Mitchell. He hosts his 183 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.759 own show and that is available to you on Wednesdays 184 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:53.759 at Eastcoastcast dot com. Final plug of our sister podcast 185 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.159 here at blog talk Radio MMA Torch live cast. It 186 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:00.399 is available at blog talk radio dot com slash MMA Torch. 187 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:02.840 You can check that out at a weekly show with 188 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.279 a lot of talk and live calls similar to this 189 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.120 on the World of M M A. John, I want 190 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:10.840 to go to an email question that we got here 191 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.120 because this was in the news. I think it was 192 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.759 yesterday when imager and it was probably other places too. 193 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.600 Another raw script popped up and a listener Will from 194 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:22.879 Jersey says he's listening live now, but he wanted to 195 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:25.440 give us question by email. You or John believe the 196 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.440 leaked the leaked scripts could be coming from a writer 197 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:32.399 inside who wants WWE to be criticized so that they 198 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:37.000 can be forced to shake up the writing. Thanks hmm. 199 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.679 I don't know how that would. I mean, maybe you 200 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.200 could understand where he's coming from better. 201 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:45.039 And. 202 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:49.080 I guess maybe throw throwing a script out there for 203 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.519 people to see, like what is written down for the 204 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.159 wrestlers to do my I mean, my problem with the question, 205 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.679 I guess is what's more embarrassing than a bad final 206 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.639 product that airs the script? You know, why to script 207 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.759 make it worse to me? A script getting out, it's 208 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:06.600 kind of you know, it's a kind of inside baseball 209 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.679 or it's kind of you know, exposing the mechanisms of 210 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.240 how the show works. But you know, Triple H's on 211 00:11:12.279 --> 00:11:15.639 there talking to Chris Jericho on Jericho's podcast about you know, 212 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.639 how vincic Man called him up after Vince Russol left 213 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:21.440 and said, you know, you know you you offered to 214 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:22.879 help out. I want you to help out, give me 215 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.399 some ideas and and I don't know, I mean, I 216 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:27.639 guess they just you know, Jericho and Triple H talk 217 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:29.440 about working in the ring together. I just don't think 218 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.799 there's a lot of secrets left. So I don't think 219 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.000 WWE would care all that much about a script getting out. 220 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.039 I'm sure there's probably some ind there's probably a feeling 221 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.840 inside the company that they'd prefer they not get out 222 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.840 after the fact, and they might, you know, put some 223 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:45.559 numbers on the scripts from now on or something, or 224 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.679 figure out a way to try to keep people from 225 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:49.360 distributing out. But I don't think it's a big deal. 226 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:51.159 I don't think it was a big panic on vinscc 227 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.879 manter triple ahious part this week that oh my god, 228 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.200 people saw the draft of what people said that aired. 229 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:01.039 Yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily we know that that 230 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.879 a writer would do that. I mean, I know, the 231 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:08.519 whole landscape of writers has changed. You know, there's so 232 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.120 many people there now compared to when I was there. 233 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.039 But when I was there, it seemed like, you know, 234 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.399 everybody was afraid to lose their jobs. No one was 235 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.720 gonna mess up, no one was gonna speak up too loud. 236 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.519 So I can't imagine that there would be a writer 237 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:30.919 there who felt like they would leak a script and 238 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.960 they'd be a backlashed to the writing and things would 239 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.159 get shaken up. I think the better chance of happening 240 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.600 is that someone leaks that script and someone gets fired. 241 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.279 And I don't think anyone would take that chance. But 242 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:48.240 I mean, just to go along with this question, like 243 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:49.799 you said, I see, and that was going to be 244 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.799 my original answer was the final product isn't going to 245 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:55.600 be what is going to cause Vince to shake things up? 246 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.679 And the good Yeah will I seen to us live 247 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.519 And I just got a chime that said he followed 248 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.000 up here he says, yes, way, that is what I mean, like, 249 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:07.679 so rains, for example, could maybe be cut some slack 250 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.559 forest promost because now you can see that he's just 251 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.879 repeating what's written for him, and so he's listening to 252 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:16.480 us and wanted to clarify. So I again, yes, I 253 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.799 mean if people see, oh, it's not Roman Reigns's fault, 254 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.559 he doesn't say very much, he's just doing what he's 255 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.360 told to do, then maybe that would cause a shake 256 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:27.879 up because people start blaming the writers instead of the wrestlers. 257 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.759 Same thing I guess would apply when we criticize announcers. 258 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:32.919 And you know, when I criticize JBL, people go, well, 259 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:34.879 it's JBL is just saying what he's told. And I'm like, 260 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:39.879 when I criticize JBL, I'm not going after John necessarily, 261 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.000 I'm going after the product of JBL the commentator. And 262 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.960 sometimes it's him, sometimes it's Vince. Sometimes it's a combination 263 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.720 of factors. So when I criticize JBL, I'm just saying 264 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.080 JBL the announcer that product is hurting the product. And 265 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.960 here's why, as opposed to it's all John's fault. And 266 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:56.840 I wish someone would step in and stop him. Because 267 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.480 of course a lot of what the announcers say is 268 00:13:58.480 --> 00:13:59.799 is Vince McMahon headsets. 269 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:04.799 Yeah, you know, I think that Again to the emailers question, 270 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.320 I think that it would benefit Roman more than you know, 271 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:11.200 because I mean, that problem has to get approved through Vince. 272 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.799 So Vince is happy with whatever it is that's on 273 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:16.559 that sheet of paper, and if he wasn't, he'd write 274 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.000 it himself. So if there's a a script that's going 275 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.919 to get leaked, sure it might help Roman in the 276 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.720 sense of Man, I know he could do better, but 277 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.480 this is obviously what he's been given. He's not that bad. 278 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.159 I don't know that Vince is going to recognize that 279 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.159 and make any changes. Again, and I've said this so 280 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.240 many times on your show, Vince is going to make 281 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:46.080 changes when it affects his wallet, and ultimately part of 282 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.720 that is the ratings and buy rates. So if you're 283 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.240 not happy with the product and he sees a swarm 284 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.600 of people leave, that's when there's going to be a change. 285 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.440 But it's not going to be because you know, a 286 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.279 script got out and people thought, wow, the writing on 287 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.000 that show is horrible because it's the same writing that 288 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:05.360 showed up in the final product. 289 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.440 Right, Yeah, we're about to go to a commercial break. 290 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.000 Why listen to commercial breaks when you can go VIP 291 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.600 and experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed. 292 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:18.799 Pw torch dot com slash go vip. That's PW torch 293 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.679 dot com slash go vip for full details, or go 294 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.799 to Patreon Patreon dot com slash PW torch vip ratestart 295 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:27.960 as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to 296 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:30.919 remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership 297 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.240 starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach 298 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.480 yourself to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience 299 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.799 with a VIP or Patreon membership. 300 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.519 I mean, I get that WWE might not want the 301 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.960 script for Raw to get out and it's only happened 302 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.960 a few times, just because it just feels like a 303 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.480 little invasion of privacy. It's like they want a little 304 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:59.080 mystique left in terms of how much detail is provided 305 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.799 to the rest, in terms of what to say versus 306 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.919 you know, what is in the charge of producers or agents, 307 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.320 in terms of you know, you know, and fans can 308 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:09.320 I'm sure a lot of people who got the script 309 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.480 went back and watched Raw and looked word for word 310 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.639 at how what the differences were between what was in 311 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.200 the script and what was said. And that's fascinating to them, 312 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.039 and that's fine, and that's a microcosm percentage wise of fans, 313 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:21.799 or it's a you know, small flights of fans that 314 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:24.840 should say. But at the same time, I mean, I 315 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.200 think it strips away a little bit of the last 316 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.720 mystique when you kind of see how the sausage is 317 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.919 made in paper form, and so when you watch wrestling now, 318 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.960 it just drives home the fact that the wrestlers aren't 319 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.720 speaking from the heart. They're speaking from a memorized script, 320 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.399 and I think that takes a little of the mistique 321 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.360 and a little of the fun away from watching wrestler's 322 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.120 talk when you think, well, those aren't even their words, 323 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.240 and it's proven now because the script got out right. 324 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.879 I mean, I think even I don't know if it 325 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.200 was improvised, But if you're talking about the script from 326 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:57.519 last Monday, and you kind of had that moment with 327 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.720 Jericho and Triple h you know, talking about the tie 328 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.360 and the scarf, that's where you watch it as a 329 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.039 fan you kind of go, oh, okay, like I wonder 330 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:09.039 if these guys actually don't like each other or they're irritated, 331 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:12.119 or maybe H didn't like that with that a jab 332 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.640 bat and now is their heat Like that's one part Now, 333 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:16.119 I don't know if that was written in there. My 334 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:21.039 guess is that something like that probably wasn't. But that's 335 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.240 the part that it could take away from because I think, 336 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.400 for the most part, wrestling fans that are educated are 337 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:31.480 the ones that are seeing that script. I don't think 338 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.440 a casual fan and maybe they'd come across it, but 339 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.000 I doubt they'd even really look it over. So I 340 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.920 think that the people that are seeing that are the 341 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.559 ones that are already educated enough on the product to 342 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.759 know that Chris Jericho is scripted to say what he said. 343 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.240 But you know, and if they see that that part 344 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.359 with him and Triple H wasn't and there, that makes 345 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.799 those moments that much more special because it gives that 346 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.599 element of I wonder if they actually really don't like 347 00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:59.720 each other. But then again, Jericho and Triple H go 348 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.759 on a podcast and talk about how much they love 349 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.119 each other and respect each other and all that, so 350 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:10.240 WW is definitely doing their part to take away the 351 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:11.519 mistique of the product. 352 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.000 Yes, and when I hear Triple H and Jericho spend 353 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:16.920 a half hour talking about how much they really get along, 354 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.799 it makes me think they don't get along very well. 355 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:24.440 It's it's that that would out protest too much, the overcompensive, overcompensatory. 356 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.759 It was what was a phrase that Paul Hayman uses 357 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.039 Steve Austin on the podcast, Oh right right, thank. 358 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.279 You, overget it, overcome compensatory. 359 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.400 Yeah. Yeah. I felt like they were kind of a 360 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.680 little in overcompensatory mode about how chummy they were. And 361 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.319 all I wanted was when I'm listening to that, I'm like, 362 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.839 what I really want our thought bubbles. I want to 363 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.920 say Triple H and Jericho, And as Triple H talks 364 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.559 about you know, Chris, oh you were the best back then, 365 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.000 it was just a pleasure working for you, I just 366 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.240 want to hear Jericho like with a thought bubble going, oh, 367 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.680 you know, screw you. You buried me every chance he had, 368 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.440 and then Jericho goes, oh, yeah, I was great working 369 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.480 with you, Triple Ah, those those are great men. And 370 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.880 then Triple H's thought bubble is, oh, it's great being 371 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.720 boss because now I got this guy who doesn't like me, 372 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.400 you know, endorsing my own bs on the air. This 373 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.480 is pandamic like, and I don't know that's necessarily true, 374 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.200 but it's still I want to see what was really 375 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.359 going on in their heads, because it did feel a 376 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.400 little like a It felt like a really long handshake 377 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.079 to try to prove to everybody to get along, right. 378 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.160 I think they both had their motives as why they 379 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.799 felt like they should really put the other person over. 380 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.079 I think with Jericho it was, hey, I want to 381 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.839 be able to come back whenever I want because it's 382 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:34.480 a sweet paycheck. And I think with with Triple H, 383 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:36.880 I think it was the same thing, Hey, we need 384 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.000 you sometimes, you know. 385 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:40.680 I think with replaced too, John, it's because he wants 386 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.680 to be popular with the internet fans, and Jericho was 387 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.079 like top three right right, it's you know, pr wise, 388 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.319 he knows a lot of people think he tried to 389 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.720 bury Jericho, who never gave him a fair chance, which is, 390 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.839 you know, you can really make a good argument for it. 391 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:56.720 I'm not gonna say it's true, but there's a compelling 392 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.119 argument out there, and that Hunter was pretty ruthless as 393 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.079 far as that went. In the early two thousands and 394 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.680 so the reputation is they don't get along so and 395 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:05.960 that there's a lot of tension there and resentment. So 396 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.640 Triple H is gonna go out there and make it 397 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.839 look like, hey, come on, you know Internet, because I 398 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.039 think the Internet ken has some influence in steering the 399 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.160 online you know, feeling about the network for instance, and 400 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.160 you know the general tone of the general quality of 401 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.960 WWE that I think it matters somewhat. It's not overwhelmingly important, 402 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.799 but it's a matter somewhat and enough for I think 403 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.599 Triple H to go. I want to make sure fans 404 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:28.880 see me and Jerich are getting along so that you know, 405 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.079 to me, it's like a president and vice president like 406 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.160 John Kerry and John Edwards who could not did not 407 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.759 get along when they ran, you know, they think along 408 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.599 at all. And Carrie had to plug his nose when 409 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:39.079 you know, making the decision to go with him in 410 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.000 set a get part. Yet they had to go on 411 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.400 camera and convince Democrats and and swing voters that they 412 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.440 were a great team. And again, I don't want to 413 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.519 over I'm Jericho and Triple H might have buried the 414 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.519 hatchet and you know in the last few years, and 415 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.039 that might be more genuine than I'm giving them credit 416 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.640 for all I'm saying is I'm somewhat skeptical John that, 417 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.079 like you said, really well, there's a little maybe some 418 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.920 mutually mutual motives going on, or they each had their 419 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:03.920 motives for wanting that, you know, and. 420 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.680 Just to kind of stay in this vortex ur just 421 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.359 for a second, you know, on your show too. I've 422 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.599 always been a big defender of Triple H in the 423 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.440 sense that while he may have done his part in 424 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:17.039 whether it's burying someone or holding people back or making 425 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:20.519 himself look great, you know, in the two years that 426 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.519 I was able to he was in all the production meetings. 427 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.319 You know, he said it right there on on Jericho's podcast, 428 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.079 him and Sean until Sean left, they were both in 429 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.039 all the production meetings. Triple H was in them one 430 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:38.359 Seawan left. And I kind of look at it as, yeah, 431 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.400 I'm guilty of it. Every writer is guilty of it. 432 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.599 Vince is guilty of it, Kevin Done's guilty of it, 433 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.319 Sean's guilty of it. All these people have done the 434 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.039 same exact thing Triple H has done in the power 435 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.400 that they were given to be able to put someone 436 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.720 over or bury somebody. And I feel like he just 437 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.440 gets it so much more than everybody else, and I 438 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.880 can see why he kind of wants to go out 439 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:04.880 there and defend himself a little bit without saying, hey, guys, 440 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.599 you do realize Sean Michaels did the same thing and 441 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.319 you adore him, you know, and there's other people that 442 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.000 do it. But I just don't. I didn't see him 443 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.160 as that guy that went in there and just purposely 444 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.960 buried guy. So I feel like in a situation with 445 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.400 Jericho and going back, and I know nothing about the 446 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.640 story of if he was trying to bury him or 447 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.640 whatever it may be in the early two thousands, but 448 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.160 part of me maybe feels like, you know, again, maybe 449 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.319 it was in a time when you're fighting with a 450 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:43.039 fully taker Austin Rock and your parents say against Jericho, 451 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:45.960 and you're trying to hold onto that top spot. Maybe 452 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.720 part of you goes, look, personally, I don't see him 453 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:51.799 as a huge star, and there's nothing wrong with that. 454 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.240 Some of us do, some of us don't. And I 455 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.119 need to come out of this thing looking as strong 456 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.039 as possible, because, like Triple H said on the podcast, 457 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.880 I need to be that Darth Vader to the Stone 458 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:05.799 Cold and the Rock and I need to come out 459 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.359 of this looking strong enough to be able to compete 460 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.160 against those guys. And maybe I don't feel Jericho is 461 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.640 the right guy to be putting over in a sense, 462 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:16.599 maybe not for the one two three, but just in 463 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.200 the sense of the storyline, because I need to be 464 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:24.680 over enough to go up against these top guys. Now, again, 465 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:28.480 that's just pure speculation. Again, it's defending Triple H. But 466 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:33.640 I've seen multiple guys bury people for the wrong reasons backstage, 467 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:38.599 and I've never seen Triple H do it without either saying, hey, look, 468 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.720 I maybe don't like this guy, but it's because I 469 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.480 think this guy is in a better position to do that. 470 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.000 And everybody did that backstage. Did he do it more 471 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.200 or more deliberately when I wasn't there, I don't know, 472 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.200 But I can only speak for what I know, and 473 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.960 I know that it's more than what everybody out there 474 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.160 him have seen, you know, and it's all based of 475 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:05.759 what they read or speculation. And I'm not I'm not 476 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:09.400 even saying you right, just saying wrestling fans in general, 477 00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:13.519 he gets a bad rap, and from from my perspective, 478 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.000 I don't think that he deserves it any more. Than 479 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:20.039 anybody else on top. I mean, wasn't it didn't stone 480 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:21.920 cold not want to work with Jeff Jarrett, so he 481 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:24.519 essentially buried a main event run for Jeff Jarrett at 482 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:24.960 one point. 483 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.279 Yeah. Yeah, there were you know, personal issues. There are 484 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.720 some deeply personal issues and political issues that both played 485 00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.839 into that at the time. And I you know, I 486 00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:36.920 wrote about the tortune order. V IFP members can read 487 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.279 a lot of what I wrote about that when that 488 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:39.839 happened at the time, because we were actually the first 489 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.599 to report on that, I got some some I got 490 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.359 some pushback from within WWE when when the details of 491 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.880 what was planned and what was rejected got got out. 492 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.880 And you're right, I mean, it does happen. I have 493 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.279 defended Triple h H more than just about any you know, 494 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:59.839 prominent promising reporter commentator for exactly what you said. What 495 00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:01.920 I think, First of all, I think Triple AH gets 496 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.920 blamed a little bit because he associated with Scott Hall, 497 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.200 who just was this miserable human being to be around 498 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.519 so much of the time. Admittedly so on his part, 499 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.720 you know, just he just felt awful and he just 500 00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.519 he just brought everyone in the room down. But Scott 501 00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.599 was a really smart, perceptive guy. So he'd find something 502 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.039 that's wrong with somebody and have a real caustic way 503 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.079 to point it out, but masked with humor. Kevin Nash 504 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.680 not nearly as miserable to be around as Scott Hall, 505 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.240 But Kevin Nash super one of the smartest guys I've 506 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.799 ever gotten to know when wrestling over the years. But 507 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:38.559 he was, you know, he was really perceptive of weaknesses 508 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:41.160 and other guys. But and so, but he was very 509 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:42.920 willing to speak on it. And I think Triple H, 510 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.799 because he was with that group, kind of inherited some 511 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.559 of the reputation. He earned some of it, for sure, 512 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:50.960 because but the thing is is, this is where I 513 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.279 give Triple H credit. I don't think Triple H ever 514 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.480 buried somebody with a false accusation in order to get ahead, right. 515 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.720 My issue with Triple H is that he has a 516 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.799 too narrow He has too narrow of a vision of 517 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.559 what makes a money drawing wrestler. And he also dwells 518 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.279 too much on things that I think are not particularly 519 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.359 relevant to a fan base, part of the fan base 520 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.920 that feels left out when they watch the product. And 521 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.720 so Triple H is a guy likes to sit front 522 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:23.799 row with men wearing g strings, flexing muscles, and there's 523 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.640 a lot of fans who would much rather go to 524 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.559 an indie show to thee Evan Boorne wrestle, and Triple 525 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:31.519 H is just he just has different things that appeal 526 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.400 to him that he would like to do with his 527 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.279 free time than a lot of fans who feel left 528 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:38.240 out of the WWE product, who aren't just in a 529 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:43.599 massive bodybuilding. So I think that that because he's super 530 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:46.440 Triple H is super smart, has a really sharp buy 531 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:49.839 for people's strengths and weaknesses. But what he thinks qualify 532 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:52.759 somebody for a push and disqualify somebody for a push 533 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.559 are things that I think that I don't always agree with. 534 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.440 And I think sometimes because of the level of power 535 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.200 he attained because of his as he talked about with Jericho, 536 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.400 his willingness to get up earlier than anybody else in 537 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.839 go to production meetings, to sit in the production booth 538 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.400 and oversee a video on himself because he's willing to 539 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.279 do those types of things, and he's smart and a 540 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:16.559 student of the business. He just his strengths and weaknesses 541 00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:20.880 I think got a larger were more scrutinized because they 542 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.359 took on more power because he was so ambitious and 543 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.519 so hard working. So anybody else who wasn't sleeping in 544 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.720 and went to those production meetings might have gotten their 545 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.440 opinion heard also, and therefore their opinions would be more 546 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.359 heavily scrutinized for bearing people. 547 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.680 I compare it to this. It's a doctor that goes 548 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.359 to school and he's taught how to treat people with 549 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:44.759 pharmaceutical drugs, and when you go to him and you say, hey, 550 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.440 I read something online, or you go to a dermatologist 551 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:50.799 thing you go, I read something online that says it's 552 00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:56.319 actually the products that are in the what is it 553 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.240 called it like suntan lotion that causes skin cancer not 554 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.000 necessarily on and they go, you're crazy, use use you know, 555 00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:04.400 the lotion. And then you go to more of a 556 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.599 holistic person and they're gonna go, yeah, don't use that 557 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.839 vitamin Jesus. And that I compare it to that in 558 00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:14.400 the sense that he was educated under Vincent Mann, Kevin Nash, 559 00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:18.799 Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall, and and that's what he's the 560 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.119 philosophy that he's learned. And I think that he's probably 561 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.880 slowly learning the other side of it and beginning to 562 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.960 appreciate the other side of it, whether it's Daniel Bryan 563 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.559 or the product that he's working with in NXT, because 564 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.279 there isn't a lot of those you know, freaks of 565 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:44.200 nature or the you know, superhero body characters or individuals, 566 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.200 not so much of the characters that are coming through 567 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.319 the system at this point. I mean, he needs to 568 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:53.519 learn and he probably is to appreciate the semi Zins 569 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:58.599 and the the Dean Ambroses and the Seth Rawlins of 570 00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.160 the world. And I think that he is. 571 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:02.640 I would hope you'd appreciate Seth Rolins, since when Seth 572 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.279 Rollins stands next to TRIPLEH on stage, Seth is taller 573 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.799 than Hunter or you know, very much just right there 574 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:10.799 with him, you know. Like I think people think Seth 575 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.279 is like this small guy only because he does moves 576 00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:15.960 that only guys smaller than him, like Kevin Bourne can do. 577 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.440 And I think that has been used against some people 578 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.079 where all you have to do is like a really 579 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.680 good athletic spot and a big, more lumbering, muscular wrestler 580 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:27.559 will look at you and just disqualify you as a 581 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:29.359 main eventor because oh, you're just one of those spot 582 00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:34.200 monkeys and I jealous, Yes, yes, And I think what 583 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:35.839 you said is absolutely true that he's kind of a 584 00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:37.920 student of the people that have been in power around him. 585 00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.920 That's part of what gets passed along. The successful promoter 586 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.279 passes along his philosophy, and there's this inertia to it 587 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.599 where that style wins out. If a promoter who promoted 588 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.480 smaller wrestlers was the one that, through whatever connection or 589 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.839 break or ambition, went national, got the deal with NBC, 590 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.200 got to deal with USA Network, and had the right 591 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.359 funding and the right exposure, then then wrestling would be 592 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:05.519 a lot more athletic, and the muscular guys would be 593 00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.880 more kind of sideshow gimmicks and not the centerpiece. And 594 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.759 with or if tag If a promoter who really made 595 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:15.599 a lot of money with tag teams in addition to heavyweights, 596 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.599 then that would be a much bigger part of national 597 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:20.880 wrestling today. Tag teams would be something you could made 598 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.799 event roll with and nobody would even think it was weird. 599 00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:25.440 You know, you're just oh yeah, of course Rock and 600 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:27.480 or Expressman that express they're gonna headline a they can 601 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.640 headline a house show, or a TV show. So I 602 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:32.559 think there's room for both absolutely that. 603 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:35.400 You know. I think that's a person who is maybe 604 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:41.160 just a fair Weather casual wrestling fan might stop the 605 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:44.559 famil changing win Raws on if they see rock Lessner 606 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:46.480 and Big Show in the ring and go okay, I'm 607 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.359 gonna watch this, and then they they turn it off 608 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.799 if it's anything else, you know. I think that then 609 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.319 there's the wrestling fans who just appreciate what Daniel Brian 610 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.759 does in the ring, and they're gonna go, I don't 611 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.240 want to see, you know, Big Show versus Mark Henry, 612 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:03.440 It's going to be the same thing. It's boring, it's slow. 613 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:05.839 I want to see Daniel Bryan versus Seth Rawlands. And 614 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:11.039 I think that what Triple A should probably learn to 615 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.559 do is know that there's a place for both of 616 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.680 those and both of them can be a huge draw. 617 00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:19.240 I mean, you can even look at at boxing. You know, 618 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.000 heavyweights is what used to carry boxing. But here was 619 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.160 the Ostar de la Joyas and the Sugar Ray Leonards 620 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:29.519 that they realized, Man, these smaller guys can draw. I mean, 621 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:32.000 Floyd Mayweather right now is the biggest draw in boxing. 622 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.799 Look at UFC. I mean, you have brock Lessner was 623 00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:37.720 the biggest draw, but then you've got guys like George 624 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.880 Saint Pierre, who I think is probably up until he left, 625 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.599 was the biggest draw in UFC, and he was near 626 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.039 the bottom of their weight division. 627 00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.359 And BJ, Yeah, I mean BJ Penn drew more money 628 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:51.240 than Tim Sylvia, you know, I mean it's right. 629 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.200 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 630 00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:00.880 Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 631 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:03.440 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for 632 00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.680 me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along 633 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.680 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 634 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.000 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 635 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.720 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 636 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:18.920 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 637 00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:28.279 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 638 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.599 So yeah, no, absolutely, And you know what ty riven 639 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:33.880 around this or my perspective on it, I think Triple 640 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:38.039 H is much more appreciative of diverse styles and body 641 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.480 types than vinsick Mann, But I think on a scale, 642 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:47.759 he's still in the top quadrant of heavyweights draw and 643 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.599 smaller guys are you know, there's a slaughter two for 644 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.519 them for those fans who like to see that stuff 645 00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.400 in the opening match. I still think there's too much 646 00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.759 of that in him, but there's no but there's no 647 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:00.319 doubt in my mind. If it's a man is at 648 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.920 ninety eight percentile, Triple H is at seventy two, and 649 00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:04.640 I think he's moving downward, you know, I think he's 650 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.440 moving more to that healthy middle zone of appreciating all 651 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.839 styles and Dad's good. I mean I get asked, you know, 652 00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:11.680 decent amount of the time by people by E Miller 653 00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:14.279 even on the show, is WW gonna better off or 654 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.720 worse off when Vincent Man steps away and Triple H 655 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.200 takes over? And I mean, we don't know. It's a 656 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:21.880 real mixed bag, John, because there's things Vince has an 657 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.119 instinct for that no one's gonna appreciate till he's gone. 658 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:27.240 But there's things that will go away, like this horrible 659 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.839 announcing that we're getting now, worst announcing of any era 660 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.599 in any promotion maybe ever, and it's hurting the product. 661 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.079 Bruce Mitchell wrote about that Tord senior columnist practice going 662 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.319 on twenty four years writing for The Torch top Analyst, 663 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.839 top analyst in all of pro wrestling, and he wrote 664 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.319 a column in this Week's person Torch weekly newsletter is 665 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:50.680 in every week just about and he wrote about JBL 666 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.119 and he was just like, there is an easy way 667 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:54.519 for WWW to make get more network subscribers, and it 668 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.480 one costs another penny. And he laid out what JBL 669 00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.920 is doing wrong and what he could be doing instead 670 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.559 that would make a huge difference. And so there's things 671 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:05.319 that when Vince goes away, everyone would be like, oh wow, 672 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:08.719 I didn't even realize how good something could be. That 673 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.400 was so awful, but now it's different, and Triple Ah 674 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.360 would be sitting there going, thank God, I don't have 675 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.920 to fight Vince every week on this or I haven't. 676 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:18.079 I don't have to just close my mouth because it's 677 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.639 a losing battle. There'll be so many changes that that 678 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:22.360 would cause it. So John, how about you, I mean, 679 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.360 do you have an inclination of do you think WWE 680 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.679 if Vince step down tomorrow, would in three years WWB 681 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.800 be in better shape of Triple Ah running. And then 682 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.400 if Vince stays in power for three more. 683 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.679 Years, yeah, you know, I think it's kind of like 684 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.440 a seesaw effect. I think that, you know, majority of 685 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:44.559 the bad is on the heavy end with Vince running 686 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.639 in at the moment, but I feel like it let's 687 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.239 say he left tomorrow again with the commentating, I think 688 00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:54.559 that would change. I think there's certain aspects that would change. 689 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.400 But again, just going off of what you said, the 690 00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.440 gut instinct of Vince, some of those things will do appear, 691 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:04.800 so you might while you might see that seesaw sort 692 00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.480 of go heavy on the good, I think it's going 693 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:09.480 to even out, and I think you're gonna see that 694 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.480 there is a lot of genius Convince and and the 695 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:16.000 people that he surrounded himself with, and if Triple H 696 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.039 has a brand new team, I think you're going to 697 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.400 see a lot of positives, but you'll see some negatives 698 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.679 that you wish that we're still around, but he's decided 699 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:27.079 to go a different direction. What those are exactly, I 700 00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:30.559 don't think anybody knows, but Triple A and and they 701 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.280 they may turn out to, you know, bring on a 702 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:37.440 new boom period in wrestling, or in my opinion, I 703 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.039 just think it's going to even itself out where you're 704 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.239 gonna go he brought in these uh, these three guys, 705 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.239 these the best commentators since Jim Ross. But uh, if 706 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.039 you asked me, if you were to if I were 707 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:54.719 to have to guess, and I don't really watch NXT. 708 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.639 I do when we do the specials, the takeovers, I 709 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.519 do enjoy those, and I thought that the whole would 710 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:03.639 be like that, But it seems that it's just kind 711 00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:06.400 of a one and I don't even know how often 712 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.800 they do it. But any other time I've watched it, honestly, 713 00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:11.760 it's it's been kind of painful for me to watch. 714 00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:16.280 I don't like the characters. I think it's it's cheesy storytelling. 715 00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:19.440 And if that, if NXP is. 716 00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:22.199 Just going to be what RAW is going to be, 717 00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.199 I don't know that i'd be a big fan. I mean, 718 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.079 I don't like the Adam Rose gimmick when I watch NXT. 719 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.400 I'm not a big fan of the guy that they're pushing. 720 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:36.199 That's like a male model. 721 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:36.519 You know. 722 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.719 There's pros and cons to NXT, I guess, is what 723 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.800 I'm saying. So I think it's going to even out. 724 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.960 I don't think it's going to be a superior product. 725 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.320 I think it will in some aspects, but I think 726 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.000 in others it's going to be worse than what is 727 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:51.960 on there right now. 728 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.519 Yeah, and part of you know NXT is just throwing 729 00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:57.320 stuff against the wall, you know, the rest comes up 730 00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:59.280 with an idea. I think part of NXT is like 731 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.079 step away, don't don't get in the way of what 732 00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:04.400 somebody wants to try to see if it works. And 733 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.559 I think that's where like Adam Roal stuff comes from, 734 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.079 and then it gets promoted the main roster. Evince thinks 735 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.000 there might be a you know, potential in it. But 736 00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.119 I think if if Triple H were in charge of Raw, 737 00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.960 there's things that about NXT that he would just filter 738 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.880 because it's not experimental, it's the final product. 739 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.800 When don't you think that that filter should be they 740 00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:26.800 should be going through that on the way to being 741 00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:29.960 on raw because I feel like outside of the shield 742 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.719 and the only one that popped in my head is 743 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.800 Adam Rose, So I apologize, but maybe there's more than 744 00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:38.639 I'm wrong. But the Adam Rose one is exactly the 745 00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.760 same character that was on NXT, and it didn't go 746 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.719 through a filter and adapt to the main roster with 747 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.599 the NXT character, right, and that. 748 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.360 And that could just be a matter of just yeah, 749 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.119 it just was a character that was destined to not 750 00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.000 work either nx T or the main roster, but it 751 00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.440 was kind of the last chance, you know, to to 752 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.079 get something out of him since he's in his mid thirties. 753 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.159 And it got immediately good, good reviews. It was like, whoa, 754 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.119 this this, this might work. But you know, we've we've 755 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:11.880 dissected on this show, and I think you might have 756 00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:14.559 even back last time you're on in the sense that 757 00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.559 we don't you know, Adam Rose is all ring entrance, 758 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:18.760 and once the bell rings, it's like fanser is ready 759 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:20.440 to move on because we've never and again this is 760 00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:22.480 part of partly the bad announcing. We don't just know, 761 00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:24.400 we know nothing about him. He doesn't seem to take 762 00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:28.280 his job seriously. He's like he's all ring entrance, no substance, 763 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.280 and they haven't taken the character beyond the initial vignettes, 764 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:36.280 and so it's just it's just a confetti show for 765 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.400 how for an early house show match to you know, 766 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.280 I mean, that's all it's just it's just it's just 767 00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:45.480 glitter and there's no substance and it's just there for 768 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.360 house shows. It was it was what I was gonna 769 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.599 say PM News, I was going way back a brotus Clay. 770 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:52.639 When I think of brotus Clay, I think a Pan News. 771 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.440 I don't know why, I do know what, So you 772 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.199 know brotos Clay was I mean, I said the second 773 00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.440 I saw his character, it was this is vincement Man's 774 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.039 slot for a high energy We don't take ourselves too 775 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:07.639 seriously lower card house show gimmick and it's not going 776 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.719 to have upper mobility, and it'll be replaced in a 777 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.760 year or two with something else. And that's kind of 778 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.480 what I saw Adam Roseaz once it became pretty clear 779 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.599 there was one layer to him and nothing more. 780 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:17.519 Yeah. 781 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.840 I think the end result is always that they have 782 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.119 to get in the ring and compete, and that character 783 00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:23.960 gives me no reason to want to see him do that. 784 00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.320 Agreed. Agreed. If you're just joining us, this is the 785 00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:30.159 PW Torch Live cast. We are on the air live 786 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.519 Monday through Friday, the only live, five day a week 787 00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.239 pro wrestling show. We are approaching five years on the 788 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.880 air this winter, and we appreciate your support. You can 789 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.840 subscribe to us in iTunes, and we really appreciate when 790 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.639 you give us a five star rating if you enjoy 791 00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:46.800 the show and leave comments letting other people browsing iTunes 792 00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:49.280 looking for a wrestling podcast worth their time. If you're 793 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.360 a fan of the show, there's no better way to 794 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.480 help us grow and show us support than telling other 795 00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.679 people why they should choose us and subscribe to us 796 00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:58.760 and sample our show. So to have a couple of 797 00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.119 minutes ago iTunes, that is right. You can find all 798 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:04.840 the links to all of our social media and RSS 799 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.119 feeds and subscribing on your phone's podcast device by going 800 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:12.239 to PW torchlivecast dot com. That's also where you can 801 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.400 stream the show live and where you can listen on delay, 802 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.119 which is what most of you do. We have a 803 00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.480 nice live listenership, but the last majority listen to us 804 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.320 on delay through iTunes, their podcast or streaming on that site. 805 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.920 So go to PW torchlivecast dot com. Then I'll also 806 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.880 tell you what the next show is and upcoming guests, 807 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:32.639 and as I said earlier, Matt Sidel Evanbourne my guest 808 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:36.639 next Thursday. On the PW Torch Live cast. On Wednesday, 809 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:41.400 ROAs Champion Michael Elgan was with Pat McNeil on interview Wednesday, 810 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.320 Pat McNeil's interview on Wednesday was Michael Elgan. The week 811 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.440 before it was Camala the Ugandan Giant with Pat McNeil 812 00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:50.480 on the Wednesday show. So check that out when you 813 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:51.840 get a chance. But like I said, we're here five 814 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.280 days a week, different hosts, different mixes, different formats every 815 00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.679 day and you can check them all out at Peter 816 00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:59.360 up a chance on us and I think you will 817 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.519 enjoy it some. Uh. I get some real gratifying emails 818 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:05.039 just about every day from people signing up, uh telling 819 00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:07.719 me their story about why they delayed, why they procrastinated, 820 00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:09.800 and what it was that talked them into doing it. 821 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.800 And then they just rave about all the stuff on 822 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.000 the other side of the VIP wall. So don't be 823 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.480 left out. Check it out PW torch dot com, slash 824 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:23.880 go vip ex Wwe create a team member. John Piermarini 825 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:26.360 is my guest, and it is time to go to 826 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:28.239 the phone mines and see what colors want to bring 827 00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:30.639 up to us. And we'll begin with a VIP member, 828 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:33.599 speaking of which Luis from New Jersey. Is this you? 829 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.519 Yes, it is hold on let me turn off, of course, yes, yes, 830 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:41.119 if I actually have three things, do you want me to 831 00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:41.559 ask them. 832 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:43.960 All at once, or you use your best judgment. If 833 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.880 they're complicated, give us some one at a time. If 834 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:47.519 if they're you can rattle them off. I'll take notes 835 00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:48.440 and we'll just hit all three. 836 00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.760 Okay, now I'll actually yeah, I'll have them all three, 837 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:55.760 all three at the same time. 838 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:57.519 So take some notes. Sure, all right. 839 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:02.000 My first question is about Okay, look, I'm actually a therapist. 840 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.159 On the off side, I can't help like when you 841 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.920 when you talk about all that creative stress, you know, 842 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.320 the creative team stress and not getting your efforts recognized 843 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.760 and whatnot. That usually a lot of job stress creates 844 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:17.039 a lot of gossips. But then gossips, of course, can 845 00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:19.719 get you in trouble. So my question is, you know, 846 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.239 how like how much did the creative gossip? Whatk with 847 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:26.119 some common topics and the light? How scared were you 848 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.039 guys that you guys were gonna get cars? That's not 849 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:34.119 three part question, but it's it's fairly simple. The second 850 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:36.719 question that I have is I just want to know 851 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.159 it seemed like to me and WrestleMania twenty six, it 852 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.280 seems like just last minute see punk and Raymond Cio 853 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.519 Junior kind of just got thrown in there because they 854 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.000 wanted a match for both of those guys to be put. 855 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:50.239 On the car. 856 00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:52.599 So I just want to know, like what was going 857 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:55.000 on with that if it was actually just put together 858 00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:57.039 last minute, the last but not least. 859 00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:01.599 I just want to know what wrestlers do you remember? 860 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:02.360 You know? 861 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:04.960 I'm actually no, no, it's not that question. And I want 862 00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:06.960 to know whether or not there is a chain of 863 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.960 command in the writing teams, like a or an unofficial 864 00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:12.639 chain of command where like, hey, you know, like if 865 00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:14.920 you're blowsty on the total pole, if you're the new 866 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.920 creative writer, like you don't touch a certain match or 867 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.559 you don't touch a certain wrestlers. So that's my three questions. 868 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:26.039 Cool, John, you're you ready to tackle those? Uh? 869 00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:27.800 Yeah, I mean we got there with the third one. 870 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:29.559 Oh, go ahead. I want to start with the doget 871 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.239 either way, yep, go with whatever's fresh in your mind. 872 00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:35.000 All right, I'll start with the third one, which is 873 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.960 a chain of command. Uh, in the way that you 874 00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:43.800 asked it, there's a yes and no to it. And 875 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.760 if I'm going to pitch a story, yeah, absolutely. If 876 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.639 I want to pitch a story with if I'm brand 877 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.199 new if I pitch a story for John Cena, it's 878 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:56.079 not like they tell you, how dare you pitch a 879 00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.480 story for John Cena? Why aren't you coming up with 880 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:02.360 TuS or Kokie Kingston. 881 00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.559 So, but yeah, he's the go to guy when you're 882 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.119 talking about some lower mid card guys. 883 00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:08.599 Right. 884 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:10.960 Sorry, there was when. 885 00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:13.039 I was there, and I know that there's like thirty 886 00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:13.559 guys there. 887 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:13.760 Now. 888 00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.320 I don't know how it's determined who does what. But 889 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:19.199 when I was there, and I was on the raw 890 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.920 team and then there was SmackDown in ECW and then NXT, 891 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.400 so it's all separated and the hierarchy went Brian go Wurtz, 892 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.599 Dave Kapoor, me, and then we had an assistant, Ryan 893 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:33.920 Ward and to say that, yes there was a chain 894 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.199 of command and you don't touch some guys. When I 895 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.320 first got there, I would get the low level undercard 896 00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:46.159 talent if they had a promo or even a dark 897 00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:49.039 match promo. It was all just to kind of see, okay, 898 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.840 let's see what you got. And then as time goes by, 899 00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:56.719 while I never surpassed Dave Kapoor, Brian the Wurtz. Yeah, 900 00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:58.760 there were times I worked with Sina. There was times 901 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:03.880 I had the main events segment. There were times that 902 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.559 you know, I had if if the words put himself 903 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:11.440 with somebody and then Kapor had the level down, then 904 00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:14.400 obviously I'm going to get the guy below that. But 905 00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:16.800 then there was there was times when we would go 906 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.559 to SmackDown and while I didn't and this kind of 907 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:23.880 answer the question for the cmpunk Ray mysterio, so I'll 908 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:27.840 bleed into that one. While I didn't necessarily know long 909 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:32.000 term plans so much for SmackDown, I would be given 910 00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:38.360 a SmackDown talent to write for and it varied from 911 00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.639 again undercard to main event. So so no, it's not 912 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:44.679 you can't touch this person. But if you showed up 913 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:47.119 and it was your second week on the job and 914 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:53.079 you know that there's a let's try Roman Reigns Randy 915 00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:58.039 Orton promo in the crossover segment from our two to 916 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:01.719 three and you say, hey, let me have that promo, 917 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.199 I mean, you have to have a pretty good explanation 918 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:06.480 why you believe you should be the writer on that. 919 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:11.400 But then the CM punk Ray mysterio story, that was 920 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.480 all a SmackDown story. Going into WrestleMania, again we were 921 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:17.239 still separated. We worked on the Row stories. They worked 922 00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:20.480 on the SmackDown stories and at TV, while I might 923 00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:24.360 be assigned CM punk during WrestleMania season, I was just 924 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:27.440 going off based on what it is that they had planned, 925 00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.360 and sometimes I didn't even know what they had planned 926 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:30.960 the next week. So it was hard for me to 927 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:36.119 really push that story, which is a complaint that I 928 00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:40.360 always had. And that's where you see inconsistencies in the 929 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:42.480 stories because you have a guy like me writing for 930 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.719 the cmpunk Ray Mysterio story and I have no idea 931 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:47.840 what's happening next week or three weeks down the line. 932 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:50.960 But that was always a match we had planned for 933 00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:53.599 a long time. It's so long ago. I can't give 934 00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:56.400 you details on it, but I can tell you that 935 00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.199 it wasn't something that we threw together. Maybe it came 936 00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.000 across that way in the storytelling. 937 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.920 Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown, or AEW Dynamite 938 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.360 in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts 939 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:10.960 on the show or a topic you want us to 940 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:15.679 address or a question for us. Wadekellor podcast at pwtorch 941 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:20.039 dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's 942 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:21.760 anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want 943 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.960 us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments. 944 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:29.159 That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at pwtorch dot com. 945 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.800 We invite that interaction, let us know what you think 946 00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:34.119 of what we're saying, and let us know what you 947 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.800 want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. 948 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:43.320 Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. 949 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.920 But that that was the mak max I think for SmackDown. 950 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:50.119 I think that was the number two, maybe the number 951 00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:54.320 three as far as priority on the SmackDown brand for 952 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:59.719 Restlemania at the time. And then gossip, I mean, there's 953 00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:03.719 God everywhere. I don't know if you know from the 954 00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:07.000 standpoint that you're talking about that it was the stress 955 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.159 that caused it. I just think that it was you know, 956 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.760 when you're in high school, that's your entire world. That's 957 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.480 all you know is high school. So I think it 958 00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:18.559 was like that with WWE. We all lived in this 959 00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:22.039 bubble and there was nothing else surrounding us except for that. 960 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:27.400 So when it came to girls, when it came to friends, 961 00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:31.760 when it came to enemies, when it came to shooting 962 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.639 the shit, I mean it was all about that people 963 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:39.400 in that bubble. So I don't think anyone ever, I mean, 964 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.079 there would be things where hey, I saw this or 965 00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:44.320 I heard this, and you know, don't repeat this because 966 00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:45.639 I don't want it to get back to me because 967 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:47.760 I was then guy in the locker room. But yeah, 968 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:49.840 I saw this happen, But I don't think it was 969 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:54.239 ever anyone was, you know, telling secrets and saying hey, 970 00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:57.840 you know, I can't even think of an example, but 971 00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.000 I don't know. I don't think that there was more 972 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:04.679 of that there than there would be anywhere else really, 973 00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.840 unless I just wasn't that involved in it. I mean, 974 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.679 most of the gossip that I had was a lot 975 00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:13.840 of like when I'm on wage show, A lot of 976 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:17.239 what I say on this show, minus things that I 977 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:21.360 kind of don't reveal, is the same thing that would 978 00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:24.119 happen on the car rides from Raw to SmackDown, where 979 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.639 it was dissecting the show and talking about what we liked, 980 00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:29.800 what we didn't like, what we wish they would have done, 981 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.599 what we could have done differently ourselves, for hey, you know, 982 00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:37.199 to really go this direction or can you believe that 983 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:38.800 then shut this down? 984 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:39.280 Or this? 985 00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.440 You know, Brian didn't approved me saying writing this for 986 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:47.000 swagger or whatever it may be. So yeah, no, I 987 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:48.880 don't think that. I don't think if you walked in 988 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.920 there as a fly on the wall that you would 989 00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.880 really get too much gossip from the writing team, the wrestlers, 990 00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:56.880 I don't know, the divas. I don't know. I guess 991 00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:59.079 the divas. Yeah, I mean there was always there was 992 00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:01.480 always some story worry that that one of them would 993 00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.519 would say to get themselves in a better position over 994 00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:08.599 the other ones, because at the time those girls were there, 995 00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:10.800 there was cheez I don't know, a dozen or more 996 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:13.880 fighting for three minutes on the show every week, and 997 00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.719 it was usually just two of the girls. So hopefully 998 00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:17.719 that answers your question. 999 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:23.519 How much was there of of just gossiping that you 1000 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:27.679 observed or heard of who's dating who, who's hooking up 1001 00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.519 with who, who's interested in who? Like that kind of 1002 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.559 like the personal life stuff. I mean that just happens 1003 00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:37.159 in any work on those writers, Like do there were 1004 00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:39.360 when you were there among the writers, was there talk 1005 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:41.440 about oh did you hear this guy is dating this 1006 00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:42.320 girl this diva? 1007 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.559 No, I mean the only time anything would ever happen 1008 00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:49.239 would would be like if if someone would flirt with 1009 00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:52.360 you and then you you'd hear it for weeks upon 1010 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.679 weeks on how that girl was flirting with you, or 1011 00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.840 you know, Steph, Steph was nice, so you're now you 1012 00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:01.719 know Steph's boy or whatever. 1013 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:02.480 Yeah, but. 1014 00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:07.519 No, I don't think we ever really talked about was 1015 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:08.199 dating who. 1016 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:09.480 Yeah. 1017 00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.880 I know that when I was there, MS was dating 1018 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:15.719 Maurice and they weren't really telling too many people. And 1019 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.119 then when it finally came out that they had been 1020 00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:21.199 dating for I think like going on two years or 1021 00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:24.199 something at the time, I remember even Brian the Wurtz 1022 00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:26.159 was like, Wow, I mean I was writing a story 1023 00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:27.840 that they were dating and I didn't even know that 1024 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:28.480 they were dating. 1025 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:33.400 Wow. That's interesting. All right? Oh, I got another email question. 1026 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:35.440 This is an interesting one in light of our discussion 1027 00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.599 earlier between about Vincent mana Triple H and different styles 1028 00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:41.239 of promoting Tom from the UK emails and says, what 1029 00:51:41.559 --> 00:51:44.639 year in WWE history do you think most fits Vince 1030 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:48.559 McMahon's idea of a great wrestling promotion? And if Vince 1031 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.920 was guaranteed to make the same amount of money whatever 1032 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.840 creative route they took, would he prefer nineteen eighties Rock 1033 00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:57.159 and Wrestling, Attitude era or something else. 1034 00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:03.159 This would probably shot. But I think right now, I 1035 00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.800 think that he has disdained for a lot of things 1036 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.199 that happened in each one of those eras, and I 1037 00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:13.679 think that he's learned and this is just in his mind. 1038 00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:17.199 I think that he's learned from his mistakes in what 1039 00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:21.159 was great about that era and what was bad about it, 1040 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:27.360 And this is what he sees wrestling being in his eyes. 1041 00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.239 I mean, this is the best product right now, because 1042 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:34.360 Vince McMahon ultimately could make either one of those eras return, 1043 00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:37.480 but this, and there's there's a lot of times too 1044 00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:40.840 where you know, I grew up with with the Hogan era. 1045 00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.519 I don't know what they called that era. I mean, 1046 00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:44.039 I guess the whole Commnia era. 1047 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.440 Right, wrestling a little bit, I guess, you know. 1048 00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:49.880 Yeah, I started after Rock and Wrestling. I came in 1049 00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:51.440 like WrestleMania five. 1050 00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:52.320 Yeah, So. 1051 00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:58.480 I like using a lot of that storytelling or character 1052 00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.519 not not like you know again, not not the goon, 1053 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:05.519 but you know, having guys have a character and learning 1054 00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.400 who they are and and and even the squash matches 1055 00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.880 and just just a lot from that era and I 1056 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:14.239 was a huge attitude era guy too, and a lot 1057 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:16.159 I watched a lot of WCW, and I took a 1058 00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.679 lot from everything, and there would be times where you 1059 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:22.519 would take something from from that time frame and Vince 1060 00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:24.559 would just be like, that's trite. I don't like it. 1061 00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:27.920 This isn't rastling, you know. And I think that he 1062 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:34.519 truly feels that the best of every era is incorporated 1063 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.119 in the current era that we're in, and he thinks 1064 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:41.000 that this is the best product he's had. Now. Does 1065 00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:44.800 he think that he'd rather have Stone Cold, Steve Austin 1066 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:48.639 and and hul Coogan in their primes right now? Absolutely? 1067 00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.360 I think from a talent level, he would probably prefer 1068 00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:54.800 to go back to, you know, when he rated all 1069 00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:59.599 the territories and had everybody's main event talent. But I 1070 00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:03.039 think it's as far as storytelling and dying, this is 1071 00:54:03.079 --> 00:54:07.440 what WWE is, I honestly truly steal he thinks right 1072 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.119 now is the best. 1073 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:10.559 Yeah. It's like if you're a mac and cheese kind 1074 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:12.400 of sewer, and you had your way of making it 1075 00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:14.159 when you were a kid, and then away in college, 1076 00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:15.960 and then a weigh in your twenties and now you've 1077 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:17.679 got a family, and you're in your thirties or forties, 1078 00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:19.760 and you make it and someone said, which way do 1079 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.440 you like best? How dumb an answer would it be? 1080 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:22.559 Is? 1081 00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:24.280 Oh, I liked it best when I was in high school? 1082 00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.079 Like why would you make it differently now than the 1083 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.559 best way? You know, like unless you're trying to save 1084 00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.880 money or you know, be healthier. I guess there's yes, 1085 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:33.880 there's a catch to the answer, but the analogy holds 1086 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.159 in the sense of why would Vince McMahon not promote 1087 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:39.760 what he felt was best? The catch, I guess John 1088 00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:43.039 would be maybe Vince would like to promote differently, but 1089 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:45.679 he feels as a publicly held company and with a 1090 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.159 PG the PG approach told the sponsors that he's actually 1091 00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.360 just white knuckling his way through Rivory Week because there's 1092 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:54.880 so much he wants to do that he can't because 1093 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:58.719 he's constrained by his own PG rating or sensors or 1094 00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:01.480 advertisers or usaying that, do you think there's any any 1095 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:03.400 element to that that goes into what we see on TV? 1096 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:07.599 Maybe? But I said the whole, the whole PG aspect. 1097 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:10.599 While I think it had a lot to do with 1098 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:14.559 Linda running. You know, I think it's if you look 1099 00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:16.559 at and Wade, you you'd be able to answer this. 1100 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:18.840 But I think that if you looked at the money 1101 00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:22.880 that he makes now with sponsorship in a PG environment 1102 00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:29.000 compared to losing a lot of the sponsors yet going 1103 00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:33.079 back to a raunchy product, or even not even being 1104 00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:36.679 raunchy let's just say an Attitude era product, I think 1105 00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:39.039 that the money would even out if he truly felt 1106 00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:41.880 that that would draw. But I think too is there's 1107 00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:44.199 this love affair with the Attitude era, and I loved 1108 00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:47.559 it as well, But it fits the time. There was 1109 00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:50.159 Jerry Springer, there was Girls Gone Wild. 1110 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:51.960 We got Jerry spring Monday. But go ahead, I get 1111 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:52.280 that point. 1112 00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.719 There there was the Internet boom where people could watch 1113 00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:59.039 anything they wanted if they you know, there was there 1114 00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:02.599 was poorn, almost everybody. There was YouTube, and I think 1115 00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.320 that it fit that time. But I think that today 1116 00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:09.719 it wouldn't wouldn't work as well. I still think that 1117 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:13.519 there's elements of today that WWE isn't grasping. I think 1118 00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.320 a lot of what people are drawn to on TV 1119 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:21.400 is like the darker side of characters and storytelling. I 1120 00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:24.159 think that that's why they got behind the Shield, they 1121 00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:27.719 got behind Bray Wyatt. I mean, there's no elements really 1122 00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:31.199 of say Breaking Bad or The Walking Dead on WWE 1123 00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:37.880 right now. They're going more so towards shows that aren't 1124 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:42.039 popular today, but something that Vince can reflect back on 1125 00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:45.239 and go, this is what PG is to me, and 1126 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:49.159 it's it's, you know, you have a twenty something core audience, 1127 00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:53.079 but you're selling them an eight year old product, but 1128 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:57.000 that eight year old viewership product. But eight year olds 1129 00:56:57.039 --> 00:56:59.920 don't want to watch eight year old TV shows. They 1130 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.239 want they want to be cool and wants the Walking Dead. 1131 00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:08.239 So I think that maybe Vince Fields handcuffed, you know, 1132 00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.880 and and feels like there's are things that he could do. 1133 00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:15.000 But I truly feel like in in Vince's mind, when 1134 00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:16.920 I was there and we were starting to get some 1135 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:20.079 of these bigger sponsors, he was so proud of that 1136 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:22.360 and he wanted to get that. And I think that 1137 00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:27.199 he just wants WWE to be part of society, not 1138 00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.079 a circus, not what people laugh at. And I think 1139 00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:35.119 that he feels that ww is legitimized and his goal 1140 00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:39.639 has been reached when he can get uh PETSI colde 1141 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:45.519 you know, these these huge companies, these staples to to 1142 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:48.639 sponsor his show. So I think, yeah, I think that 1143 00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:50.960 there's you know, I think that you see elements of 1144 00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:55.480 it with with lata Uh talking about when when we 1145 00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:59.159 had the Malaysian airlines and Russia may or may not 1146 00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:02.039 have been involved, and he went right to that. So 1147 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.400 while I think he wishes he could go to that 1148 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:08.920 well and not be punished or ridiculed for it, I 1149 00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:11.719 think that that's maybe the extent to where he wishes 1150 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:13.800 he could take the gloves off. But I don't think 1151 00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:17.760 he he wants to run out there and you know, 1152 00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:25.280 do a sable stripping down to just pasties or whatever 1153 00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:26.760 else they did in the Attitude era. 1154 00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:30.159 So yes, the rate at r Sex show with Lead 1155 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:33.320 and Edge or Mark Henry, and you. 1156 00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:38.039 Know, I think he don't get me wrong, but you know, 1157 00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.960 like for example, I remember when we were doing n 1158 00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.159 x T the like the original format of it. I 1159 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:49.599 think it was it was season one. The he pitched 1160 00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:52.880 in a production meeting Let's and it was the day 1161 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:54.679 of what are we going to do for this episode? 1162 00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:56.639 And it was like a rewrite. He didn't like it. 1163 00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:59.639 He wanted to do brawl for them. He was he 1164 00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:01.719 was in to it, and to be honest, I mean 1165 00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:04.760 I was into it too, just from from the standpoint 1166 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.400 of being a fan. You know, is it great for 1167 00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:07.920 the product? 1168 00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:08.079 No? 1169 00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:11.199 Right, but I have wanted to see it. Yeah, But 1170 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:14.360 you know, Kevin Dunn shot him down. He was like, ah, man, 1171 00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.880 he wanted to do it. 1172 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:19.880 And who I missed who you said pitched it? Vince 1173 00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:23.559 Vince himself. That's okay, yep, yeah, so Kevin, well, that's 1174 00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:24.639 what I thought you said. And then when you said 1175 00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.679 Kevin dunshot it down, I'm like, well, Kevin done went 1176 00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:27.559 to shut down Vince. 1177 00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:32.400 Kevin Dunne does it, and he usually shoot down Vince, 1178 00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:36.599 but I think he's kill Also, I think it might 1179 00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:38.800 have even been something along the lines of, well I 1180 00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:40.840 don't think that's a good idea for X, Y and Z, 1181 00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:44.199 and I don't remember the reason, but hey, if you 1182 00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:46.320 want to do it, but I don't think we should, 1183 00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:47.480 but hey, if you want to do it. 1184 00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:48.199 Yeah. 1185 00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.320 You know, you know, when you're with someone that long 1186 00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:54.719 and you've learned to kiss somebody's ass, yes, so perfect. 1187 00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:00.119 He knows how to say no without saying no and 1188 01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:03.079 get Vince to go okay, okay, I won't do it 1189 01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:07.199 and it's my idea that I'm not doing it right. 1190 01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:09.519 Yes, well, it's like Triple H says, Vince is really 1191 01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:11.599 good at listening to other people, and you think it's 1192 01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:14.440 a compliment. And then he pauses and then he goes, 1193 01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:16.519 and you know, he listens to a lot of ideas. 1194 01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:18.199 He's really good at that. He'll digest the ideas and 1195 01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:19.599 he'll take a couple of days to think about it, 1196 01:00:19.639 --> 01:00:21.360 and you're like, he's about to say something nice about Vince, 1197 01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:22.840 and then he goes, and then on the third or 1198 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.559 fourth day, he picks the best opinion or the best 1199 01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:28.039 idea and claims it as his own, you know, and 1200 01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:30.159 claims he came up with it. But you know what, 1201 01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:32.480 if you just want the product to be better, you know, 1202 01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:35.559 to a degree, if it doesn't hurt your payroll or 1203 01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:37.519 your job security, you know, if the boss wants to 1204 01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:39.159 kind of take credit for it, and that's the game 1205 01:00:39.159 --> 01:00:40.159 that's played, then so be it. 1206 01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:43.480 Well, I mean, you're there to feed him ideas so 1207 01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:45.920 that he can decide what he wants to do with 1208 01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:50.559 his product. So ultimately he pays you for your idea 1209 01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:52.360 so that they can become his ideas. 1210 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:54.960 Right, yep. That's how three M works. You know, they 1211 01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.519 innovate with a lot of cool products, but the people 1212 01:00:57.519 --> 01:00:59.519 who work there get a guaranteed salary to come up 1213 01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:02.599 with night team bad ideas and one that works, and 1214 01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:05.800 three M pays for all the research and all the 1215 01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:08.679 you know, the legal searches to make sure that it's 1216 01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:11.360 not already patented and that kind of thing. And then 1217 01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.800 when something gets huge, the person goes, yeah, I invented 1218 01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:15.280 post it notes, and they go, well, what'd you get 1219 01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:17.000 from it? You know, three m's make made billions. He 1220 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.360 goes my sixty eight thousand dollars salary or my eighty 1221 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:21.599 thousand dollars salary, and people like that to a rip off. 1222 01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:23.079 He goes, well, not really, because you should see all 1223 01:01:23.079 --> 01:01:24.480 the bad ideas that I would have run out of, 1224 01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:26.239 that would have run out of money, try to patent 1225 01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:28.519 a bunch of bad ideas and never caught on until then. 1226 01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:30.000 And that's kind of it. You know. It's like, I 1227 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.239 want your ideas, but in the end, you know they're 1228 01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:34.199 gonna be my ideas, and I'm going to get credit 1229 01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.360 or blamed because I approve or disapprove of those ideas. 1230 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:47.920 Right exactly, Yeah. 1231 01:01:44.119 --> 01:01:47.159 Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn 1232 01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:51.119 some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast every 1233 01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:54.480 Friday on the PW Towards Daily Cast Feed. Alex and 1234 01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:57.800 Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by 1235 01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:00.599 taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. 1236 01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:04.320 Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 1237 01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:07.559 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 1238 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:11.000 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties 1239 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:14.440 Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. 1240 01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:29.159 All right, let's uh, let's go to a phone call here. 1241 01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:31.199 Let's go to Erico three one four. I think this 1242 01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:33.760 is Saint Louis. Please state your name and confirm the city, right. 1243 01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.960 All right, this is Daming from Saint Louis. 1244 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:40.280 Hey, Damien, what have you got for John Drummer any today? 1245 01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:42.519 Well? 1246 01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:46.639 I just have a couple of questions. First off, when 1247 01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:51.559 it comes to how the data actually does pitch ideas 1248 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:55.559 as it has the final stay though in those ideas, 1249 01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:59.119 how many times do you just figure like okay, and 1250 01:02:59.239 --> 01:03:03.639 especially with the scrip be leaped out loops, and how 1251 01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:07.519 everything from the final product difference from that script who 1252 01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:11.039 you ask think will be we won't have that sense 1253 01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:14.159 or this could of work, the good does not work. 1254 01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:18.119 I'll just try to do your John, did you pick 1255 01:03:18.159 --> 01:03:18.440 that up? 1256 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.119 I'm sorry I didn't get a lot of it. 1257 01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:23.480 It was yeah, David, our connections are great. But just 1258 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:26.760 in one sentence talking to the phone, I heard enough. Right, 1259 01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:29.960 I can restate it. But is your question? We'll go 1260 01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:31.920 ahead and summarize your question one sentence because I got 1261 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:33.159 a lot of the bits and pieces, but I'm not 1262 01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:34.519 exactly sure the core questions. 1263 01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.199 Okay, in one sentence. 1264 01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:41.320 The right way. 1265 01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:45.000 You was part of the writing team, John, did you 1266 01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:48.639 ever get that feeling like why did you decide didn't 1267 01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:51.239 work or did not work versus what would ended up 1268 01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:52.320 on the final product? 1269 01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:58.320 So you want to know did did we have an 1270 01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:01.559 idea as to why things good or didn't work? 1271 01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:01.480 Oh? 1272 01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:03.880 Okay, okay, okay, I just want to work. I just 1273 01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:09.000 want to know what the thought process was, how well 1274 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:10.960 as that game compared to how it was? 1275 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:11.679 Now? 1276 01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:14.239 Oh okay, what what? 1277 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:15.119 What didn't that work? 1278 01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:20.119 Yeah? I don't I don't know. I don't know the 1279 01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:22.639 thought process of the creative team now because I don't 1280 01:04:22.679 --> 01:04:26.159 know what percentage of their ideas are being used compared 1281 01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:30.480 to Vince or or Triple H. But when I was there, 1282 01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:34.599 there was a conflicting thought process, is the way I 1283 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.440 thought it was because I saw a lot of we've got, 1284 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:40.880 you know, the last few months or a few years 1285 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:43.559 left of these top guys, and we're going to run 1286 01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:47.280 with them, and and mine and and a lot not 1287 01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:50.679 a lot, but a few other people were, Okay, we 1288 01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:53.079 have a few months or a few years left of 1289 01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:56.880 these other guys, then what because we're in no position 1290 01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:59.840 right now to have guys replace them. And and that's 1291 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.840 ultimately what happened was you had Batista leave, you had 1292 01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:06.440 Jericho leave, you had Sean leave, Triple H stopped wrestling 1293 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:09.719 on a regular basis, same with Undertaker, and then there 1294 01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:15.320 was nothing. There was just oh, okay, well this guy's 1295 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:19.320 getting put into a spot. And I think I think 1296 01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:22.159 at that point it was like right back when they 1297 01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:25.880 first started with his push or uh, you know, punk 1298 01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:29.639 even by default, I think kind of just you know, 1299 01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:33.280 he went from a B player to an A player 1300 01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:37.639 just because he was a top the B list. But 1301 01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.559 and again I'm sorry if I don't quite understand your question. 1302 01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:42.800 But I think you just wanted to know like the 1303 01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.519 booking philosophy at the time. But I don't know what 1304 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.400 you mean by what. 1305 01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:49.400 Worked and how John do Damien? 1306 01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:54.440 Okay, so. 1307 01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:56.239 Okay. 1308 01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:59.519 What I meant by that is Okay, when you're pitching 1309 01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:03.800 that d and it gets shut down, got it? 1310 01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:04.159 Okay? 1311 01:06:05.320 --> 01:06:07.960 Do you always have that feeling like it didn't work 1312 01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:11.480 and it just you just get frustrated amongst your sales 1313 01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:13.760 that that didn't work and they even go with the 1314 01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:16.320 fire aproct of TV. That's what I was asking about. 1315 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:20.159 Oh yeah, I mean yeah, I mean that was yeah, 1316 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:24.880 that was That was my everyday experience at DOWE. Here's 1317 01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:28.159 an idea. I personally think it's good, or I'd run 1318 01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:30.679 it by certain people who would say it's good. I 1319 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.000 mean God, there'd be meetings, or I pitch things to Vincent. 1320 01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:36.320 He'd love it, and you know the next day, if 1321 01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:38.559 Brian go Wertz didn't like it, it just would be 1322 01:06:38.599 --> 01:06:40.880 forgotten and I could go to him and go, hey, 1323 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:41.960 are we going to go with this? 1324 01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:42.280 Uh? 1325 01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:45.400 Yeah, you know we're gonna do this instead? Or and 1326 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:47.360 what am I going to do over? Brian said knock 1327 01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:49.719 on Vincent's door and say, you know, Byan won't let 1328 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:54.119 us do this story, but you just have to. You know, 1329 01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:57.079 and I've said this before in your Silvy is eventually 1330 01:06:57.559 --> 01:06:58.199 you know, I. 1331 01:06:58.199 --> 01:06:59.400 Wrote at the time. 1332 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:05.920 For myself, but also to what I felt could be 1333 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:08.599 great for the product, and in a sense try to 1334 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:13.159 revolutionize the product into something that could be great. I mean, 1335 01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:15.559 that's why I went there. I want to do something 1336 01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:18.679 where when I leave, I know I changed the company. 1337 01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:21.599 And you know, a year and a half into it, 1338 01:07:21.679 --> 01:07:24.639 you start going, all right, well, what's gonna get Brian 1339 01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.840 to go? Okay, we'll add that into the show. So 1340 01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:30.960 you get beat down and I can't speak for the 1341 01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:34.320 current product or the current writing situation because I know 1342 01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:39.400 that Brian doesn't oversee it at the moment, but yeah, 1343 01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:42.480 you beat yourself up so much that you start going, 1344 01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:45.800 I know this could work, and I know not every 1345 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.000 idea I have is gonna work, but one of these 1346 01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:52.039 is gonna work. One of these. I put so much effort, blood, 1347 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:54.440 sweat and tears into, you know, coming up with this, 1348 01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:57.039 sitting with the talent, talking with the talent over the pot, 1349 01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:00.400 so much time away from your friends and family and 1350 01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:02.000 going all right, I finally got it. 1351 01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:02.559 This is it. 1352 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:05.320 I'm ready to pitch it, and then it's ignored or 1353 01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:10.079 it's going, oh you you have in week three this 1354 01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:14.239 guy facing Curtis Axel. Well, we wouldn't do that. So 1355 01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:16.520 it's like, well, so the whole story's dead. Why can't 1356 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:18.880 we just put another heel in there? And then you 1357 01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:21.359 just start going all right, fine, and you start you 1358 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:26.439 start pitching for Brian or for this, and ultimately that's 1359 01:08:26.479 --> 01:08:28.520 kind of what led to me going, I throw my 1360 01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:31.600 hands up that I'm leaving. But I don't know how 1361 01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:32.399 it is today. 1362 01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:34.720 Very good. 1363 01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:36.600 But you've had you've had Matt McCarthy on. I don't 1364 01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:39.560 know if he's he said anything similar to that in 1365 01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:42.279 the sense of, you know, he pickes his brains out 1366 01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:45.039 and nothing ever gets used, and he just kind of 1367 01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:47.640 threw his hands up and said, whatever whatever you want, 1368 01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:48.760 I'll write, I'll write it. 1369 01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:50.600 Well, yeah, And I think every writer who's been on 1370 01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:53.119 the show has talked about a certain level of frustration 1371 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:55.920 that kicks in at some point where you you just 1372 01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:58.800 understand that there's a way that things are done and 1373 01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:02.319 you have to have some level of humility that maybe 1374 01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:04.359 there's a good reason for this that I don't understand yet, 1375 01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:06.520 and over time I'll figure it out. And then there's 1376 01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:08.479 also the level of frustration, which is they don't listen 1377 01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:10.800 to any two voice. They're stuck in their ways and 1378 01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:14.279 it's institutionalized and it's bad for the product, and you 1379 01:09:14.359 --> 01:09:15.720 just spend your time trying to figure out is it 1380 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:18.640 ninety ten or ten ninety? You know, how frustrated should 1381 01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:20.119 I be versus how much should I just kind of 1382 01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:21.560 wait around because someday I'll get it. 1383 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.039 You know. 1384 01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:24.560 It's like people say, you know, you grow, you're destined 1385 01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:26.279 to be like your parents when you get older, and 1386 01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:28.000 you're like, there's absolutely no way. And then by the 1387 01:09:28.079 --> 01:09:30.319 time you're you know, you know a certain age, you're like, oh, 1388 01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:33.680 now I get why, you know whatever. So it's a 1389 01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:36.159 mix of those two things, and it's probably in any 1390 01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:39.439 corporate culture. When new people show up, they they're bread eye, bushytailed, 1391 01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:41.760 ready to contribute ideas and shake things up. And there's 1392 01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:46.159 a whole institution of people and methodologies that got people 1393 01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:48.159 to the point that they're at that they're scared to 1394 01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:50.880 shake up. And part of a good corporation is finding 1395 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:54.800 that balance between honoring tradition and introducing new ideas, and 1396 01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.439 WWE and physic Mann are probably at fault for, you know, 1397 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:00.920 being somewhat limited in less their backstory the wall and 1398 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:04.479 accepting new ideas, and the attitude era was born out of, 1399 01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:07.640 in great part, being scared because the competitor was doing 1400 01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:08.680 a better job than them. 1401 01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:09.640 Two things. 1402 01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:09.840 You know. 1403 01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:12.319 One thing I do regret is I mean, I had 1404 01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:14.880 my reasons for leaving, but you know, sometimes I do 1405 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:17.039 sit back and think of if I would have just 1406 01:10:17.079 --> 01:10:19.880 stuck it out, and I would have even known that 1407 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:22.159 this was going to happen, so there's not really too 1408 01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:24.239 much I can beat myself up about. But if I 1409 01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.000 would have stuck it out until Brian was relieved of 1410 01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:31.520 his position or whatever it is that they relegated him too, 1411 01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:34.920 you know how much of a difference could I have made? 1412 01:10:35.159 --> 01:10:37.880 How could I have, did you know, put in that 1413 01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:40.479 spot or could at least I could have had a 1414 01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:44.600 better vehicle to get my ideas used. And I still 1415 01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:50.079 sit this day wonder that. But you know, what can 1416 01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:53.159 you do? And I think you do see, at least 1417 01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:56.560 from my perspective watching it as someone who's going, okay, 1418 01:10:56.600 --> 01:10:59.560 how is this pitched? Or whose idea was this or 1419 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:02.399 you know, does this look like something that they had 1420 01:11:02.479 --> 01:11:05.560 planned or something they just threw together. I do notice 1421 01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:08.760 a lot now that there seems to be a lot 1422 01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:12.439 more involvement with the undercard like that we talked about 1423 01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:15.600 when we first started this conversation, and a lot more 1424 01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:20.479 different types of ideas and philosophies used within the show 1425 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:24.159 that I do think that they're bringing in these guys 1426 01:11:24.199 --> 01:11:28.920 from from Hollywood that are lasting, you know, three months, 1427 01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:31.600 and these guys are kind of coming in and going, Okay, 1428 01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:34.880 I know storytelling, and I know what I need to 1429 01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:37.600 get across, but I need everybody's help because I don't 1430 01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:41.520 necessarily know wrestling psychology or I don't know how to 1431 01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:46.359 properly lay out a story that you know, the way 1432 01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:49.560 Vince likes it. So I think you see a lot 1433 01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:53.039 of the ideas from a lot of the different writers, 1434 01:11:53.079 --> 01:11:56.640 and it's a guest used throughout the show. And it 1435 01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:00.479 would have been a great time for me when I 1436 01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:02.479 look at it and going, I think I would have 1437 01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:07.000 fit in better now than I did in two thousand 1438 01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:09.880 and nine and twenty ten. And while I'm proud of 1439 01:12:09.920 --> 01:12:12.800 the accomplishment that I was able to contribute to the product. 1440 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:15.520 I think that I would have been able to accomplish 1441 01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:17.800 a lot more just based on what I see, But 1442 01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:19.720 then again it could be worse now I don't know. 1443 01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:23.960 Yeah, yep, very good. I've got another good follow up email. 1444 01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:26.439 We'll save that for the VIP after show from a 1445 01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:30.119 listener asking tying it into current events and the storyline 1446 01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:32.479 going on with Stephanie, Nikki and Bell. In fact, John, 1447 01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:34.359 we didn't get to pretty much anything that I in 1448 01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:36.960 our email exchange that we were going to get to today, 1449 01:12:37.159 --> 01:12:39.239 so we'll do that in the VIP after show in 1450 01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:40.720 just a couple of minutes. Here, I do want to 1451 01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:43.439 note that we've had just had some great interviews this 1452 01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.359 summer since John was last on the show, including Xbox 1453 01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:48.359 Sean Waltman, one of my favorite guests on this show, 1454 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:52.520 provides so much insight into how WWE operates. He talks 1455 01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:55.159 so freely, talked about his reaction to the streak, ending 1456 01:12:56.199 --> 01:12:58.439 why he was the first to pitch to Triple H 1457 01:12:58.479 --> 01:13:01.960 that Roman Reigns could be a blue chip, top tier player, 1458 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.159 and this was when Rains was frustrated with the lack 1459 01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:06.840 of progress and developmental his reaction to see on Punk 1460 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.119 Silence and more. That was back on June twentieth. You 1461 01:13:09.159 --> 01:13:11.319 can find these shows when you go vip. By the way, 1462 01:13:11.359 --> 01:13:14.760 there's a drop menu on pw torch dot COM's membership 1463 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.520 page pw torch dot com Flash members. There's a drop 1464 01:13:17.560 --> 01:13:20.000 menu and it's just pw torch live cast interviews, and 1465 01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.479 when you choose that option, you can scroll through years 1466 01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:25.239 and years and years of interviews and downloader stream whatever 1467 01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:27.000 it is you're in the mood to listen to. Pat 1468 01:13:27.079 --> 01:13:30.520 McNeil in June interviewed Joel Gertner, former ECW announcement. My 1469 01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:33.039 guess you're on the live cast, John, anything you want 1470 01:13:33.039 --> 01:13:36.279 to plug Twitter? Any projects coming up, anything people should 1471 01:13:36.279 --> 01:13:36.600 look for. 1472 01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:39.840 No, not really. 1473 01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:41.920 You don't want people to follw you on Twitter anymore. 1474 01:13:41.960 --> 01:13:42.520 I don't blame you. 1475 01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:46.119 If they want, it's John as himself. Feel free to 1476 01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:52.039 follow me and projects. I mean, yeah, maybe on one 1477 01:13:52.079 --> 01:13:55.079 of the future shows, I may actually have some some 1478 01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:58.079 fun stuff to announce that your viewers might actually be 1479 01:13:58.119 --> 01:14:01.479 interested in, but nothing finalize at the moment. 1480 01:14:02.039 --> 01:14:04.079 Cool. All right, Well, it's been a great discussion and 1481 01:14:04.119 --> 01:14:05.600 it's going to continue now. On the other side of 1482 01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:07.960 the music, we're going to go to the VIP after show. 1483 01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:10.600 I think everybody for joining us, and if we didn't 1484 01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:11.800 get to you on the phone, banks just draw me 1485 01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:13.600 an email right now, especially if you're a VP member 1486 01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:17.920 with your question PW Torch Live cast at gmail dot com. 1487 01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:20.199 We do not take calls on the VP after show, 1488 01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:22.840 but we do answer email questions. And another perk of 1489 01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:24.560 going VISPS you don't have to listen to my long 1490 01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:27.159 plugs telling you why VIP is so cool. Those get 1491 01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.479 edited out of the VIP version along with plugs for 1492 01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:32.319 our sponsors, so that for some of you at this 1493 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.600 specific moment might be a real incentive. So go VIP 1494 01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:39.039 for three thirty three. All right, thank you everybody once again. 1495 01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:43.119 Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant to be by on Monday, 1496 01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:47.319 and then next Wednesday, Pat McNeill be hosting with another interview. 1497 01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:48.840 I don't think he told me yet who he's got 1498 01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:51.880 lined up. But then next Thursday, a special Thursday interview 1499 01:14:52.039 --> 01:14:54.920 I'll be hosting and Matt Sidel maybe better known as 1500 01:14:54.960 --> 01:14:57.560 Evan Bourne, will be my guest. Well, now we're not 1501 01:14:57.640 --> 01:14:59.439 going to move to the VIP after show and talk 1502 01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:03.159 about events in WWE, including Lessener Sena hype Getchon's opinion 1503 01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:06.239 on that, should Roman Reigns face triple H between now 1504 01:15:06.279 --> 01:15:09.359 in WrestleMania and if so, under what circumstances, We'll talk 1505 01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:14.039 about the Stephanie Bella storyline and also that email question 1506 01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:16.840 related to that. So thanks again everybody, and thanks John 1507 01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:18.920 Piermarini and on the outside of the music VP members 1508 01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:51.199 whole tight some good discussion yet to come. All right, John, 1509 01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:52.479 I know you told me off there on the VF 1510 01:15:52.479 --> 01:15:53.640 you have to show you had one of the most 1511 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:57.000 incredible things and stories to share that you had ever shared, 1512 01:15:57.079 --> 01:15:58.760 and that you only wanted to do it on VIP, 1513 01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.239 So why don't you go ahead and tell that story? 1514 01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:01.479 Now? 1515 01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:04.520 Well wait, that wasn't you. That was somebody else. Sorry, John, 1516 01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:11.119 all right, You're like, wait a second, No, I just 1517 01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:12.960 did that because now you know, all the non VIP 1518 01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:14.760 members might sign up and then they'll find out that 1519 01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:22.000 I'm unscrupulous in my in my well, you know, there's 1520 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:23.520 there's gonna be if I keep that in and don't 1521 01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:25.039 edit out, there's gonna be some people who signed up 1522 01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:28.119 just for that reason, be like, oh geez, that's that's 1523 01:16:28.159 --> 01:16:30.359 a trustplate. Ever again, all right, I've done that a 1524 01:16:30.359 --> 01:16:32.119 few other times. No one's complained, so I kind of 1525 01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:35.880 fun with that anyhow. All right, well, let's start off 1526 01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:38.760 with his email, because it's an interesting email from somebody 1527 01:16:38.760 --> 01:16:42.159 who I think was listening to the show here and 1528 01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:44.680 let me I brought it up on my phone. It's 1529 01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:47.560 all righty here, all right? This comes from Devon or Devon. 1530 01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:50.039 He says, My main issue with the Bella Twins storyline 1531 01:16:50.079 --> 01:16:52.159 is that the motivations behind the characters actions are not 1532 01:16:52.159 --> 01:16:55.159 really coherent. When John was around, how much time they 1533 01:16:55.399 --> 01:16:59.319 did the writer spend vetting stories or altering angles to 1534 01:16:59.319 --> 01:17:01.680 make sure that there were no excuse me, that there 1535 01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:06.359 were no holes in Each character was acting logically and 1536 01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:09.680 rationally based on their stated motivation and goals. An example 1537 01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:11.960 of clarify my point is Nicki hates Brie for stealing 1538 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:13.840 all of her boyfriends and all the other things mentioned 1539 01:17:13.880 --> 01:17:16.079 in the Growing Up Bella segment. Well, if that's true, 1540 01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:18.319 then Bree's a bad sister and Nikki is not really 1541 01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:20.600 the heel here. But if Nicky's lying and making these 1542 01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:23.560 stories up, then why exactly is she mad at Brie? 1543 01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:25.439 Doesn't seem like the current creative team in Vince is 1544 01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:27.279 bothering to make sure their stories actually make sense? 1545 01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:35.560 Yeah, I think he just sums up the whole story 1546 01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:38.039 and why okay? Because I thought the same thing when 1547 01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:42.039 I was watching those Growing Up Bella segments. I was thinking, 1548 01:17:42.279 --> 01:17:45.640 all right, so Breeze the heel or is she lying? 1549 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:49.640 And Bree's gonna have this moment to be able to say, 1550 01:17:50.159 --> 01:17:54.359 you know, all those stories are true, except that was 1551 01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:58.960 you nicky. You know, you almost leave the audience to 1552 01:17:59.079 --> 01:18:01.239 wonder and go, okay, well, I guess I don't really 1553 01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:04.119 like free right now. It was almost like the same 1554 01:18:04.159 --> 01:18:08.399 thing with the Daniel Brian is cheating on bree story. 1555 01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:11.600 It's like, Wow, Daniel Brian's not really that cool of 1556 01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:16.039 a dude because you never had him come out and say, hey, 1557 01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:20.520 not true, guys. I know, I think brief for like 1558 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:23.880 an interview segment right before match at Summer Slip, I 1559 01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:28.239 think she said something like Stephanie came out and told 1560 01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:32.399 that big, fabricated lie about about Daniel Brian. But I mean, 1561 01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:35.319 how do we notice that that's not Daniel Brian going 1562 01:18:35.359 --> 01:18:37.640 that's a lie and her going I knew it, you know, 1563 01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:40.760 I mean, we had no conclusion to if that was 1564 01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:41.439 a lie or not. 1565 01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:48.920 You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro 1566 01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:50.920 Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of 1567 01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:53.239 Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check 1568 01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:56.119 out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and 1569 01:18:56.199 --> 01:19:00.279 SmackDown at pw torch dot com. I written report. We'll 1570 01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.439 tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed 1571 01:19:02.479 --> 01:19:05.439 the show, and it will also analyze key segments and 1572 01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:09.159 give my random thoughts quips on what I'm watching as 1573 01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:11.159 it airs. So check it out every Monday night and 1574 01:19:11.239 --> 01:19:15.600 Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to 1575 01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:19.079 WWE payperviews. I cover those live at pw torch dot 1576 01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:21.720 com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and 1577 01:19:21.760 --> 01:19:23.800 of course you can find other TV reports from other 1578 01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:27.880 contributors to pw torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling 1579 01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:30.800 and more. Check it out pw torch dot com your 1580 01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:33.960 first stop for TV and pay per view written reports. 1581 01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:49.079 But Yeah, I don't know how I could really add 1582 01:19:49.119 --> 01:19:52.520 anything to his answer, because it's one of those two things. 1583 01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:56.000 Either Bree is the bad guy and you know it's 1584 01:19:56.079 --> 01:20:00.279 horrible storytelling, or Nicky's lying. But why isn't any one 1585 01:20:00.319 --> 01:20:06.000 coming out and disputing these claims unless they're just unless 1586 01:20:06.079 --> 01:20:09.199 Vince Fields or the writing team feels that they're so 1587 01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:12.720 wacky that nobody would believe it's possible. 1588 01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:16.359 Right, But even so, then, why does NICKI not like Brie? 1589 01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:18.319 Why is she the heel? Why did she turn on 1590 01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:21.960 her sister? Because like, yeah, I mean, they probably just 1591 01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:23.479 haven't thought about this, and Vin would be like, yeah, 1592 01:20:23.479 --> 01:20:25.399 it doesn't matter. If we just wanted fans to feel 1593 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:27.079 a certain emotion in the moment and not think too 1594 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:28.520 hard about it. And for a lot of fans that 1595 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:30.720 might be enough, but you're leaving some fans behind who 1596 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:31.560 care about that stuff. 1597 01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:32.319 Yeah. 1598 01:20:32.319 --> 01:20:35.199 I think it was mostly we need a finish to 1599 01:20:35.239 --> 01:20:38.119 this match, and this is the finish, and so after 1600 01:20:38.159 --> 01:20:39.880 that we need to come up with a reason. And 1601 01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:42.880 it seems like an important aspect of the show because 1602 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.920 Stephanie is involved, But typically it would have just been 1603 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.399 just we don't need to give an explanation. It's the 1604 01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:51.640 sixth thing on the list of things that we're trying 1605 01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:53.720 to get across on the show this week. But I 1606 01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:56.399 would think it's a top priority at least for Stephanie 1607 01:20:57.640 --> 01:21:00.439 to try to go, hey, where is this going? And 1608 01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:03.079 who knows, you know, maybe down the line you'll get 1609 01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:06.000 more of a reason, or maybe it's you know, it's 1610 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:09.800 that pushback where h Stephanie is really into something and 1611 01:21:09.920 --> 01:21:12.319 Vince isn't, and Vince is gonna ultimately win out and 1612 01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:13.840 go I don't I know, I don't want any of 1613 01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:16.319 this set Just go out there, do this, do that, 1614 01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:19.479 and get it over with. But I think if you know, 1615 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:22.840 the question was, let's try to make some sense of it, 1616 01:21:23.359 --> 01:21:25.880 and I think you could still sort of make sense 1617 01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:30.159 of it in the sense of, maybe, you know, he'lls 1618 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:37.720 typically believe the bs that they say, and I maybe 1619 01:21:37.840 --> 01:21:43.960 Nicky felt like Bree was the golden child and she 1620 01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:48.800 always did everything right. Nicki did everything wrong. And you know, 1621 01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:51.520 she's jealous that Brie got married, and of course she's 1622 01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:54.159 gonna go, oh, you married that goat based guy, but 1623 01:21:54.359 --> 01:21:58.800 in reality, she's going, god, I really wish that was me. 1624 01:21:59.640 --> 01:22:01.720 And then so. 1625 01:22:03.199 --> 01:22:06.760 Brie, you know, and they went into WWE together as 1626 01:22:07.399 --> 01:22:12.159 a team, and Brie sort of abandoned her for her husband. 1627 01:22:12.359 --> 01:22:15.600 And you know, maybe Nikki could tell a story of 1628 01:22:16.199 --> 01:22:19.039 that situation has come up before, But I always chose you, 1629 01:22:19.199 --> 01:22:21.039 and I think they even touched on that a little 1630 01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:24.079 bit where she was like quit for me and she 1631 01:22:24.199 --> 01:22:28.000 said no, and so it was like I've lost my sister. 1632 01:22:28.560 --> 01:22:31.479 And on top of me losing my sister, she kind 1633 01:22:31.479 --> 01:22:33.800 of stabbed me in the back because I was getting 1634 01:22:33.800 --> 01:22:37.680 my ass kicked for a month and you decided that 1635 01:22:37.760 --> 01:22:40.000 it was more important for you to stand up for 1636 01:22:40.039 --> 01:22:42.880 your husband than to save me, and we were in 1637 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:46.800 the womb together, and this is this is what I get. 1638 01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:50.239 So yeah, screw you. I'm I'm I hate you because 1639 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:53.680 I'm jealous of everything and you've turned your back on 1640 01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:55.920 me and you chose somebody over me, and I don't 1641 01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:58.720 have that other person where she might have done the 1642 01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:01.880 same thing with Cina, but she doesn't have that opportunity. 1643 01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:05.439 So yeah, it makes sense to me in a story standpoint, 1644 01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:07.520 if you can get that deep into it and tell 1645 01:23:07.560 --> 01:23:10.439 the story and go. You turned your back on me, 1646 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:15.279 and I hate you for it. You chose Daniel Brian 1647 01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:19.760 over blood over your own sister, and I hate you 1648 01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:22.520 and it's that simple. And if I never see your 1649 01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:26.119 face again, then so be it. And I'll never shed 1650 01:23:26.159 --> 01:23:30.199 a tear over it. I truly do you ruined my life, 1651 01:23:30.439 --> 01:23:31.760 I'm gonna ruin yours. 1652 01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:34.439 And that's the thing. I think part of what fans 1653 01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:36.600 relate to when it comes to heals is they want 1654 01:23:36.640 --> 01:23:39.439 to understand what made somebody turn on someone. We understand 1655 01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:42.159 why Paula and Doorf turned on Hulkogin, but we also 1656 01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:47.479 think Paula Endorf greatly overreacted due to his own faults 1657 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:51.239 and insecurities and jealousies. And so with Nikki, she can 1658 01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:54.960 have a reason that it's actually true to turn on 1659 01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:58.239 Bree and she can dwell on it and shine a 1660 01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:01.119 spotlight on it. But the reaction the fans is a, 1661 01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:05.239 you're overreacting to you. You're being petty and jealous and three, 1662 01:24:05.319 --> 01:24:08.279 I just don't like your attitude and how you decided 1663 01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:10.640 to deal with this, and you just need to shut 1664 01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:13.359 up already, Like that's what can turn her heel And 1665 01:24:13.720 --> 01:24:16.439 they're just you know, there's some of those elements are there, 1666 01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:19.880 but you know, Breed needs to and that's something that 1667 01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:23.039 I think Vince is just week on. Babyfaces need to 1668 01:24:23.199 --> 01:24:27.800 actually be given a chance to say this is this 1669 01:24:27.960 --> 01:24:30.880 is not true, and here is the truth, and and 1670 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:33.640 you know, give some proper attention to giving their side 1671 01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:35.439 of the story, and it's strange, but sometimes that does 1672 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:36.039 get left out. 1673 01:24:36.720 --> 01:24:39.439 I think two and again just to play Devil's dad, 1674 01:24:39.520 --> 01:24:41.680 but get to Vin or Stephanie or whoever it is 1675 01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:44.760 in charge of the story. Is that you know? I 1676 01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:47.960 think that if you took this story and you said, 1677 01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:52.159 is the goal to make three a huge star in 1678 01:24:52.239 --> 01:24:55.439 the Diva's division or just in the company in general, 1679 01:24:56.880 --> 01:24:59.479 And that's where you think that they're going, they're doing 1680 01:24:59.479 --> 01:25:02.960 a horrible job. But it could also be that we're 1681 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.680 gonna use Breed to make Stephanie a bigger heel, and 1682 01:25:06.720 --> 01:25:10.279 we're gonna we're gonna ultimately use Nicky in an effort 1683 01:25:10.359 --> 01:25:16.720 to help Stephanie in whatever way. And so if we 1684 01:25:17.039 --> 01:25:20.279 if we crap all over Brie, so be it. That's 1685 01:25:20.359 --> 01:25:24.359 not our goal here. Our goal is to build stefinitely 1686 01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:27.640 Stephanie to ultimately I tried to say two words in one, 1687 01:25:28.039 --> 01:25:34.640 uh get hers against somebody else, you know, And while 1688 01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:37.760 I don't necessarily one hundred percent agree with that, I 1689 01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:40.159 can at least see the philosophy. Why are we going 1690 01:25:40.239 --> 01:25:43.960 to invest letting Brie kind of get over on Stephanie 1691 01:25:44.399 --> 01:25:49.319 when ultimately we're saving that for somebody else. And I 1692 01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:52.279 think you can like compare that to if you watch, 1693 01:25:52.840 --> 01:25:55.760 you know, a movie or a TV show and you 1694 01:25:55.880 --> 01:26:04.439 see your top heel get over on a D list, 1695 01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:07.800 or maybe not a D list, but like the fourth 1696 01:26:10.039 --> 01:26:12.199 I'm trying to think of an example as I'm talking, 1697 01:26:12.199 --> 01:26:16.119 and I can't think of them. But you know, the 1698 01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:20.720 the the first babyface in the movie that the heel 1699 01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:23.720 comes across, they're just gonna wipe that person out, you know, 1700 01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:26.680 And it's and it's to build to win Spider Man 1701 01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:29.560 or whoever it is, finally gets to that heel at 1702 01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:32.920 the end, and that the babyface at the beginning might 1703 01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:35.119 shine a little bit, but you're not gonna get too much. 1704 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:38.079 It's more so to showcase the heel. And maybe that's 1705 01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:42.640 just what they're doing. And I think that I could 1706 01:26:42.640 --> 01:26:45.319 be wrong and they could just be completely messing it up, 1707 01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:48.920 but that's where my guess would be. And if that's 1708 01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:51.560 the case, I would be okay with it because I 1709 01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:54.399 think ultimately, if you look at the performance that Brie 1710 01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:59.279 is giving, she's not winning anybody over as far as 1711 01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:01.800 breaking out, and it's the whole goal was to have 1712 01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:05.479 her break out of this. Nicky's the one. I'm not, 1713 01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:08.119 by no means am I endorsing Nicki as being amazing 1714 01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:10.640 in this story. But she's showing a lot more than 1715 01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:11.079 Brie is. 1716 01:27:11.399 --> 01:27:14.159 She's surprising people with her ability. I mean, she's kind 1717 01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:16.720 of maybe she's landed in the groove that she's good at, 1718 01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:18.920 you know. I mean that these kind of pre recorded 1719 01:27:18.920 --> 01:27:22.680 segments looking at the camera and making these preposterous petty 1720 01:27:22.760 --> 01:27:26.479 claims are you know, it's it's up rally more than 1721 01:27:26.479 --> 01:27:28.279 whatever it has been asked for her before. But yeah, 1722 01:27:28.920 --> 01:27:30.760 I'm curious to see where this goes the long run. 1723 01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:33.560 You know, I teased giving you know, this incredible you know, 1724 01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:36.560 backstage story and all that I want. I'm not gonna 1725 01:27:36.600 --> 01:27:38.279 make it. I totally made it up, but I want 1726 01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:40.119 to make good on this on giving a couple of 1727 01:27:40.119 --> 01:27:45.840 backstage insights on how Stephanie's perceived behind the scenes, because 1728 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:48.039 I think that's fascinating as she's put herself out there 1729 01:27:48.039 --> 01:27:50.600 on TV. I commented with Jason Powell on Tuesday's live cast. 1730 01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:54.800 I think Stephanie is either really good to spectacularly good 1731 01:27:54.920 --> 01:27:57.920 on air, and then there's this whole vast middle zone 1732 01:27:57.960 --> 01:28:00.479 that she never hits. And then there's time I'm where 1733 01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:06.079 she's just awful, channelducing, awful and completely unself aware and 1734 01:28:06.119 --> 01:28:08.800 I think counterproductive. And it's just weird because she's doesn't 1735 01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:10.760 really fall in the middle very often. And there's times 1736 01:28:10.800 --> 01:28:12.880 where I'm like, that was good, she belongs on TV 1737 01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:14.960 more of that, and then like two weeks later should 1738 01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:16.680 be on and I'll just be grown and going, my god, 1739 01:28:16.760 --> 01:28:18.760 she has no self perception of what her strengths are 1740 01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:22.640 and that would just totally undercut everybody and and everybody 1741 01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:23.920 she's in the ring with, and she just you know, 1742 01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:26.920 sucked the oxygen out of the room. Your opinion on 1743 01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:30.439 Stephanie's performances, you can react to that, but also perception 1744 01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:32.600 of Stephanie as a boss but also somebody who puts 1745 01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:35.720 herself out there as a performer. Do people walk around thinking, ah, 1746 01:28:35.760 --> 01:28:39.239 Steph's cool, I work under her, but she's you know, 1747 01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:42.119 she's relaxed and it's relaxing to be around her. Or 1748 01:28:42.199 --> 01:28:45.560 is everyone just really you know, like at maybe her 1749 01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:49.399 wish on edge around her and treating her like you 1750 01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:51.079 better not sneeze in the right you know, better not 1751 01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:53.359 sneeze around her and look at her the wrong way. Like, 1752 01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:56.640 what's the backstage interaction and perception among people who work 1753 01:28:56.720 --> 01:28:57.039 for her. 1754 01:28:57.880 --> 01:29:02.319 Yeah, when I was there, she had just had gosh, 1755 01:29:02.399 --> 01:29:05.039 what was it like, her third child, and so she 1756 01:29:05.199 --> 01:29:07.640 was in the office all the time. She was never 1757 01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:08.199 on TV. 1758 01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:09.920 And then. 1759 01:29:11.439 --> 01:29:14.239 Probably I don't know, after about being there a year, 1760 01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:17.399 she started coming to TV more often and getting more 1761 01:29:17.439 --> 01:29:22.159 involved backstage with producing backstage segments and kind of working 1762 01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:26.840 with the divas. But as Faart like I think it was, 1763 01:29:26.920 --> 01:29:31.600 it was she was seen different by different people, and 1764 01:29:31.720 --> 01:29:35.520 I think for the writing team, I got along with 1765 01:29:35.560 --> 01:29:39.079 her great, loved working with her. You know, her door 1766 01:29:39.199 --> 01:29:42.159 was always open. I'd always you know, run things by her, 1767 01:29:42.319 --> 01:29:44.640 ask her opinion and things, and I always thought the 1768 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:47.560 experience with her was great. But then you'd hear other 1769 01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:52.159 people who just could not stand her, and you know, 1770 01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:55.800 I don't, I don't know why. And you know, they 1771 01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:59.680 had every every reason they gave. I had the exact 1772 01:29:59.760 --> 01:30:02.800 op said experience with her. So I don't know. But 1773 01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:05.279 as far as you know, at the time, she was 1774 01:30:05.840 --> 01:30:09.920 Stephanie McMahon, she was a boss, she was part of creative. 1775 01:30:10.399 --> 01:30:12.279 I think it was more so a title at that 1776 01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:15.800 point than actually contributing to the creative. 1777 01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:16.119 Team, but. 1778 01:30:17.560 --> 01:30:20.159 The talent. I mean, anytime I worked with anybody and 1779 01:30:20.239 --> 01:30:23.119 Stephanie was involved, they were always nice to her. I 1780 01:30:23.199 --> 01:30:26.159 never heard anyone say anything bad behind her back. But 1781 01:30:26.239 --> 01:30:30.000 again it could be because I was there, or it 1782 01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:33.399 could be at the time that you know, they appreciated 1783 01:30:33.399 --> 01:30:35.800 her and now they don't if those have changed. But 1784 01:30:37.760 --> 01:30:39.960 sometimes it's hard for me to kind of speak for 1785 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:42.319 other people, and I can only speak for myself and say, 1786 01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:45.159 but from a creative standpoint, I don't know. She never 1787 01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:49.880 really contributed creatively as far as here's some ideas. She 1788 01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:52.640 would walk into the room sometimes and sit us all 1789 01:30:52.680 --> 01:30:55.199 down and go, okay, let's talk about this, but it 1790 01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:58.199 was never here's ideas I have. So creatively, I can't 1791 01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:00.680 really say. As a performer, I think she's great, and 1792 01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:04.520 I think she's one of the better performers on the show. 1793 01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:08.199 I mean, there's times that she just she just knows 1794 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:11.479 what she's doing out there, and sometimes I think that 1795 01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:17.239 she takes away from the other performers that are out there, 1796 01:31:17.279 --> 01:31:19.520 and I think that that hurts them. But I think 1797 01:31:19.520 --> 01:31:24.920 she's great both personally and on air, so I don't 1798 01:31:25.119 --> 01:31:27.159 i'd be a bad person to kind of like break 1799 01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:29.840 down her flaws or things that I didn't like about her, 1800 01:31:29.880 --> 01:31:32.000 because I honestly could tell you eight I never had 1801 01:31:32.279 --> 01:31:36.760 a bad experience with her personally or professionally. 1802 01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:42.960 Yep. No, Well that's that's great. Another question about current events, 1803 01:31:43.119 --> 01:31:44.560 because I want to be able to hit these that 1804 01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:49.159 I teased Roman Reigns. Your thoughts in the last few 1805 01:31:49.159 --> 01:31:52.319 months now on the progress of Roman Reigns, clear leading 1806 01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:54.000 physicians of the top guy even money on raw wh 1807 01:31:54.039 --> 01:31:56.000 Johnsena was supposed to prove Triple A she's ready to 1808 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.479 fight face brock Lesner scene. It takes out let Rains 1809 01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:01.880 get you know, get the finish and get the pin 1810 01:32:02.359 --> 01:32:04.079 and Sina just you know, went to ringside the job 1811 01:32:04.119 --> 01:32:06.960 with Triple H and now you know, match against Shorrton, 1812 01:32:07.079 --> 01:32:10.000 rematch against th Whorton, a feud with Seth Rollins. Is 1813 01:32:10.159 --> 01:32:12.640 do you think Roman rains is on, is being promoted 1814 01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:14.720 at the right pace and is doing what's asked of 1815 01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:17.359 him well? Or is he falling short or is a 1816 01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:20.920 writing falling short? 1817 01:32:21.039 --> 01:32:24.079 I think they're doing all right with what they have. 1818 01:32:24.399 --> 01:32:28.039 I mean, I don't know realistically what more they could 1819 01:32:28.119 --> 01:32:32.359 do from a storytelling standpoint. I mean, they're pretty much 1820 01:32:33.520 --> 01:32:38.279 making this guy a monster. He's running through the top guys, 1821 01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:42.840 he's put in in key spots. But I think the 1822 01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:47.399 one thing I would change is promos. Personally, I truly 1823 01:32:47.439 --> 01:32:49.880 think that someone needs to be dedicated to him and 1824 01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:53.880 him only. And let Range choose that writer, like, go 1825 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:57.439 to him and go, look, do you have a guy 1826 01:32:57.520 --> 01:33:00.600 on this staff that that you feel you click with 1827 01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:03.680 or that you respect creatively, or you know you're just 1828 01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:07.560 in sync with, And and let him say, yeah, you know, John, Okay, 1829 01:33:08.039 --> 01:33:11.439 John is your writer. I mean, you have thirty freaking writers. 1830 01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:14.720 You have enough for almost one guy can be dedicated 1831 01:33:14.760 --> 01:33:19.720 to one one wrestler, and you'd have everybody compensated for, so, 1832 01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:22.359 you know. And I take that guy, and I think 1833 01:33:22.399 --> 01:33:25.920 that that guy should do nothing but work with Rains, 1834 01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:30.279 find his voice, find out who he is, and and 1835 01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:34.279 literally just concentrate on Roman Rains and his promos and 1836 01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:38.119 and and that entails showing up to the arena and saying, hey, man, 1837 01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:40.720 after you go of your match, let's sit down, let's 1838 01:33:40.800 --> 01:33:45.359 let's cut this promo, let's go over it. Let's let's 1839 01:33:45.399 --> 01:33:47.520 find out who it is you want to be, you know, 1840 01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:51.000 give me give me an inspiration. Okay, my inspiration is 1841 01:33:53.239 --> 01:33:58.039 I'm I have such a hard time referencing someone, but 1842 01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:04.760 my inspiration is star Lord from Guardians of the Galaxy. 1843 01:34:04.800 --> 01:34:07.359 Oh okay, so you want to emulate that type of character. 1844 01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:11.239 All right, well, let me do some research and i'll 1845 01:34:11.239 --> 01:34:12.920 get back to you and you do the same, and 1846 01:34:13.279 --> 01:34:15.840 let's come together next week with some ideas. And I 1847 01:34:15.880 --> 01:34:20.920 think you'd see him grow so much quicker if if 1848 01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:23.159 he had that. And it's also too you know a 1849 01:34:23.159 --> 01:34:25.960 lot of these guys sometimes, even when I was there, 1850 01:34:26.920 --> 01:34:28.880 they have ideas but they don't know who to go 1851 01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:33.239 to with it. Or you know, Roman could sit here 1852 01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:34.760 and be like, man, I got this, I got this 1853 01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:37.840 kick ass promo. But let's say he comes up to 1854 01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:41.560 me and he goes, hey, man, I'd like to say this, Oh, Roman, 1855 01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:43.800 I don't got I don't have your promo tonight. 1856 01:34:44.039 --> 01:34:44.239 Now. 1857 01:34:44.239 --> 01:34:46.199 If you did it to me, I'd be like, all right, 1858 01:34:46.279 --> 01:34:48.399 let me let me look it over and I'll take 1859 01:34:48.439 --> 01:34:51.840 it to the person that does. But I think a 1860 01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:54.359 lot of this talent feels lost at times when it 1861 01:34:54.359 --> 01:34:56.439 comes to that. And yeah, you know what, I got 1862 01:34:56.439 --> 01:35:00.199 this great idea, Like I'm sure that there is. I'm 1863 01:35:00.199 --> 01:35:02.960 pretty confident that there's nobody on that writing staff that 1864 01:35:03.119 --> 01:35:07.279 knows who Roman Reigns is. And I'm talking about the 1865 01:35:07.319 --> 01:35:12.640 real person, and I don't think that there's anybody who 1866 01:35:12.680 --> 01:35:17.000 could create a voice for him without going I need 1867 01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:19.880 to spend every time i'm at on the road, I 1868 01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:21.760 need to spend with you. And you know what, if 1869 01:35:21.800 --> 01:35:24.840 you're serious about being the top guy, I show up 1870 01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:28.800 every Sunday by nine pm and I stay at the 1871 01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:33.039 HoTT I'll come to you. You come to me, let's 1872 01:35:33.039 --> 01:35:35.560 have a drink, let's talk. If not, if you come 1873 01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:38.159 in late Monday, I'm there at eleven o'clock, i got 1874 01:35:38.159 --> 01:35:41.079 my production meeting till three. I'm all yours after that. 1875 01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:50.000 I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the 1876 01:35:50.079 --> 01:35:53.000 new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan 1877 01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:56.399 pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and 1878 01:35:56.479 --> 01:35:58.600 noteworthy events dictate. 1879 01:35:59.119 --> 01:35:59.760 And I'm Chris. 1880 01:36:00.640 --> 01:36:02.960 Join us as we come with the ever changing landscape 1881 01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:05.359 of New Japan as they navigate an era with no 1882 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:07.960 lack of talent but a real need to create some 1883 01:36:08.039 --> 01:36:08.640 new styles. 1884 01:36:09.039 --> 01:36:10.079 You can stream then your. 1885 01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:12.479 Seven Stop on CAUs Now from pro wrestling talk. 1886 01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:27.399 Come to me with stuff, let me figure out who 1887 01:36:27.439 --> 01:36:29.680 you are, let me create a voice for you. But 1888 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:32.079 I just feel like it's a new guy, probably every week, 1889 01:36:32.159 --> 01:36:36.279 handing him a script goings. I guess, you know, a 1890 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:40.199 badass would say this, And I'm not putting down everybody 1891 01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:43.039 else but me. I'm not a badass either, but I 1892 01:36:43.039 --> 01:36:45.439 would at least go, you know what, I'm not this guy. 1893 01:36:45.880 --> 01:36:47.720 So I need to sit with him and find out 1894 01:36:47.800 --> 01:36:49.600 who he is, and then I can take that and 1895 01:36:50.319 --> 01:36:54.359 write for him. But I think too that what Rains 1896 01:36:54.479 --> 01:36:58.880 needs to do is I don't know how I can 1897 01:36:58.920 --> 01:37:01.960 really express this, but I think that he needs to 1898 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:07.399 find something to help fans kind of latch onto him. Give, give, 1899 01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:10.920 Give something for the fans to do to emulate Rains 1900 01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:16.159 when Raw isn't on on the playground or on you know, 1901 01:37:16.279 --> 01:37:18.800 hanging with their friends if they're older. You know, you 1902 01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:22.600 kind of had the thing with with Austin, you know, 1903 01:37:23.239 --> 01:37:25.319 hell yeah, or the or the Rock kind of had 1904 01:37:25.319 --> 01:37:28.479 his catchphrases and they caught on outside of wrestling. You 1905 01:37:28.520 --> 01:37:31.760 had a way to emulate these guys, and it was 1906 01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:35.680 a way for you to kind of attach yourself to 1907 01:37:35.880 --> 01:37:39.279 that character. Hey, I could be stone cold Steve Austin. 1908 01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:44.359 If I throw two middle fingers up to somebody, or 1909 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:47.439 you know, I can raise my eyebrow to someone who 1910 01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:49.760 says something weird to me, I can be the rock. 1911 01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:51.760 That's how I can be the rock. I don't think 1912 01:37:51.800 --> 01:37:56.399 that anybody has the ability to do that with Roman Reigns. 1913 01:37:56.439 --> 01:37:58.439 And you know, it could be something is just as 1914 01:37:58.560 --> 01:38:02.399 simple as a catchphrase. Maybe it's something more. But I 1915 01:38:02.439 --> 01:38:05.279 think that he needs to find a way to connect 1916 01:38:05.479 --> 01:38:09.720 with people outside of the ring because while it's great 1917 01:38:09.800 --> 01:38:13.119 to go, oh cool, his match is up next after that, 1918 01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:17.439 there's nothing else to represent Roman Rains on the show 1919 01:38:18.039 --> 01:38:18.920 or with the people. 1920 01:38:21.319 --> 01:38:24.960 Makes total sense. I'm with you every bullet pointing step 1921 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:27.119 of the way on that. I think I like the idea, 1922 01:38:27.119 --> 01:38:28.640 and again that comes from having an ext writer on 1923 01:38:28.680 --> 01:38:30.479 the find it because you've seen that work where you 1924 01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:34.159 find that writer or Roman Rains finds and identifies a 1925 01:38:34.159 --> 01:38:37.760 writer who will work primarily with him, not exclusively, but 1926 01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:41.479 primarily to learn his voice and get his voice more 1927 01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:45.000 expressive on TV. To connect with the fans. Another big 1928 01:38:45.039 --> 01:38:46.920 topic I want to get to before time runs out here. 1929 01:38:46.960 --> 01:38:50.239 Brock lesnar John Cena SummerSlam match. What'd you think of 1930 01:38:50.279 --> 01:38:51.840 the booking of that match and what have you thought 1931 01:38:51.920 --> 01:38:53.199 of the follow up in the week since. 1932 01:38:54.520 --> 01:38:57.680 I loved the booking of the Summer Slam match because 1933 01:38:58.279 --> 01:39:03.279 I think you eliminated all the I think you tore 1934 01:39:03.479 --> 01:39:06.920 down you. Okay, let me start over without mentioning the match. 1935 01:39:06.960 --> 01:39:11.800 You bring in the biggest pay per view draw going 1936 01:39:12.119 --> 01:39:16.840 in brock Lessner from USC and you have that power. 1937 01:39:16.960 --> 01:39:19.800 And then I think they stripped him of everything when 1938 01:39:19.840 --> 01:39:24.079 he lost to John Cena, when he looked human against 1939 01:39:24.159 --> 01:39:26.560 Triple H. And did he lose two out of three 1940 01:39:26.600 --> 01:39:28.439 to Triple H or did he win two out of three? 1941 01:39:29.359 --> 01:39:29.479 Uh? 1942 01:39:30.399 --> 01:39:31.640 I think he had to win two out of three? 1943 01:39:32.199 --> 01:39:36.439 Okay, either way, he just became another guy. I mean, 1944 01:39:36.479 --> 01:39:38.800 that's all that he was. It's like, oh, okay, cool, 1945 01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:41.840 it's brock Lessner. But all right, I have no reason 1946 01:39:41.880 --> 01:39:43.600 to really invest in him. He's going to go up 1947 01:39:43.600 --> 01:39:45.439 against one of the top guys. He may or may 1948 01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:48.880 not win, and I think that they hurt him, and 1949 01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:51.239 then I think they erased all that with SummerSlam, and 1950 01:39:51.279 --> 01:39:56.479 I think that he just became a huge attraction and 1951 01:39:56.560 --> 01:40:01.199 I think that he's gonna He's gonna garner a. Anyone 1952 01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:05.319 who who saw that or heard the buzz that is 1953 01:40:05.479 --> 01:40:09.079 not a loyal viewer of the product is going to 1954 01:40:09.159 --> 01:40:12.720 want to see him wrestle again, which is why I 1955 01:40:12.760 --> 01:40:18.720 think that they have I don't want to say the opportunity, 1956 01:40:18.720 --> 01:40:23.159 but they run the risk of destroying all that all 1957 01:40:23.159 --> 01:40:26.960 over again by booking this match against John cena a 1958 01:40:27.199 --> 01:40:32.600 too soon and too poorly. I mean, he destroyed Sena 1959 01:40:32.640 --> 01:40:37.119 and I can't imagine them booking him to do it again. 1960 01:40:37.479 --> 01:40:40.439 So in that case, you're going to take away what 1961 01:40:40.640 --> 01:40:46.399 they did at SummerSlam. So I here's the thing, and 1962 01:40:46.800 --> 01:40:49.199 I look at things almost I look at things as 1963 01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:51.000 a fan, but then I also look at things of 1964 01:40:51.079 --> 01:40:55.760 how it was probably booked, and part of me thinks 1965 01:40:56.279 --> 01:40:59.920 that they didn't have a definitive plan after SummerSlam. They 1966 01:41:00.119 --> 01:41:06.279 went into SummerSlam going this is what's best for business today, 1967 01:41:06.680 --> 01:41:09.640 and I think that what they found out was whether 1968 01:41:09.720 --> 01:41:13.600 they planned on going two months with this story or 1969 01:41:13.600 --> 01:41:16.520 three months or however long, or maybe they just decided 1970 01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:19.199 it was the best option because no one else was ready. 1971 01:41:19.600 --> 01:41:22.319 And I think that what Vince ultimately did was go 1972 01:41:23.319 --> 01:41:26.159 the only way to get people to care about John 1973 01:41:26.319 --> 01:41:31.720 Cena facing brock Lessner again and more so specifically John 1974 01:41:31.760 --> 01:41:34.840 Cena fans, was to give those people the hope that 1975 01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:38.199 he could win. Otherwise everyone's gonna go. He got his 1976 01:41:38.319 --> 01:41:42.319 ass kicked. I mean, worse than any since anything we've 1977 01:41:42.359 --> 01:41:46.439 seen since the eighties or nineties, almost on squash matches 1978 01:41:46.439 --> 01:41:51.199 on Superstars. You know, why would I watch that again? 1979 01:41:51.239 --> 01:41:53.520 And I think Vince's philosophy is make him as strong 1980 01:41:53.560 --> 01:41:56.359 as possible so that so that his fans believe that 1981 01:41:56.439 --> 01:41:59.239 he could win. And I think that that's where they're 1982 01:41:59.279 --> 01:42:01.520 going as far as is how they're booking it. What 1983 01:42:01.680 --> 01:42:04.479 whether I agree with it or not, that's what I 1984 01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:05.720 think the philosophy is. 1985 01:42:07.520 --> 01:42:11.119 And fun Yeah, don't go ahead, Yeah, I just gonna 1986 01:42:11.119 --> 01:42:12.399 ask you to do about what you were gonna say. 1987 01:42:12.439 --> 01:42:15.000 I think here, so okay, but now. 1988 01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:19.800 Let's just say wrestle they decide, Vincricmann decides brock Lessner 1989 01:42:19.880 --> 01:42:23.319 is going over Undertaker at WrestleMania thirty and the next 1990 01:42:23.399 --> 01:42:27.560 day at Raw all the powers that be go, we 1991 01:42:27.600 --> 01:42:30.439 need to book Sina out until WrestleMania thirty one. We 1992 01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:33.720 need to properly tell this story because we invested twenty 1993 01:42:33.760 --> 01:42:36.000 one years into this streak, and we need to make 1994 01:42:36.039 --> 01:42:38.479 sure this is done right. So let's just say that 1995 01:42:38.479 --> 01:42:40.560 that was the plan and that's what they did. Okay, 1996 01:42:40.920 --> 01:42:46.640 So really, how do you make Lessner look even stronger, 1997 01:42:47.359 --> 01:42:52.319 but yet don't chill Sena again? So I think that 1998 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:56.920 what you could do and what they might do is 1999 01:42:58.079 --> 01:43:01.039 you have to give Seena the opportunity to have some offense, 2000 01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:05.439 and maybe you have something where Sena does find that 2001 01:43:05.560 --> 01:43:10.800 dark side and he somehow gets away with hitting Sena 2002 01:43:10.880 --> 01:43:14.079 with the chair some sort of foreign object, and you 2003 01:43:14.159 --> 01:43:19.479 sell the story of you know, a Lessner is wounded. 2004 01:43:19.880 --> 01:43:22.119 I mean, he's a wounded animal. We have not seen 2005 01:43:22.159 --> 01:43:26.239 this yet, this could be it. John Cena could beat, 2006 01:43:26.640 --> 01:43:30.039 could beat rock Lessner, and yet at the end, rock 2007 01:43:30.119 --> 01:43:32.920 Lessner still beats Sean Cena. But you have a plausible 2008 01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:35.439 explanation as to how John Sena all of a sudden 2009 01:43:35.479 --> 01:43:37.920 got all this offense on him, yet he still loses. 2010 01:43:37.960 --> 01:43:39.640 And then you kind of run with the story of 2011 01:43:40.239 --> 01:43:43.520 all right, I mean, the guy that we've been touting 2012 01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:47.359 is the greatest world champion of all time couldn't beat 2013 01:43:47.479 --> 01:43:50.000 him at one hundred percent. He couldn't beat him at 2014 01:43:50.039 --> 01:43:54.680 fifty percent? Who could stop this guy? And then when 2015 01:43:54.720 --> 01:43:58.880 the time's right, it's Roman reigns. And now you've built 2016 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:02.520 such a huge star out of Roman where you got 2017 01:44:02.520 --> 01:44:04.640 a guy who beat the Streak, you got a guy 2018 01:44:04.640 --> 01:44:07.119 who beat John Cena, and you got a guy who 2019 01:44:07.119 --> 01:44:11.079 beat John Cena maybe on one leg. I mean, who 2020 01:44:11.079 --> 01:44:14.840 could stop this guy? And to go even further in 2021 01:44:15.079 --> 01:44:18.159 just kind of like in the booking whether I think 2022 01:44:18.199 --> 01:44:20.439 that this is the best idea or not. Like I 2023 01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:22.680 was always the type of person where they would say, 2024 01:44:23.560 --> 01:44:26.960 here's here's the idea, and I think the general idea 2025 01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:30.079 is that Roman reigns rents the royal rumbles, and I 2026 01:44:30.199 --> 01:44:33.560 would be always the type of person that would go, Okay, 2027 01:44:33.840 --> 01:44:36.279 I'm not saying we shouldn't do that, but for the 2028 01:44:36.399 --> 01:44:39.399 sake of throwing an alternative idea out there, let me 2029 01:44:39.439 --> 01:44:43.319 throw an alternative idea so it's not so predictable. What 2030 01:44:43.600 --> 01:44:46.399 if you you know, and along the way you got 2031 01:44:46.399 --> 01:44:48.640 to build Roman reign. So I think you got to 2032 01:44:48.680 --> 01:44:52.520 keep them away from build WrestleMania thirty two. But who 2033 01:44:52.600 --> 01:44:54.279 do you have that you can have them go aft? Okay, 2034 01:44:54.279 --> 01:44:56.760 you've got seth Rawlins you've already had or I think 2035 01:44:56.840 --> 01:44:59.439 ultimately you get to Triple H, who can see the 2036 01:44:59.439 --> 01:45:02.960 ascension rain and go, okay, I got to put a 2037 01:45:02.960 --> 01:45:05.920 stop to this because it's not going to be this guy. 2038 01:45:06.119 --> 01:45:08.600 By the way, I hate that storytelling, but that's just 2039 01:45:08.680 --> 01:45:15.039 the way that WWE books everything. So you know, you 2040 01:45:15.119 --> 01:45:19.920 have Triple H go okay, we're doing Royal Rubble qualifiers. 2041 01:45:20.039 --> 01:45:22.720 Roman wins, and maybe it's you know, he tries to 2042 01:45:22.720 --> 01:45:26.399 stop Roman from winning, but he still does and he goes, great, Hey, 2043 01:45:26.760 --> 01:45:30.760 you know, congratulations, you've qualified for the Royal Rumble. You 2044 01:45:30.800 --> 01:45:35.439 will be an entrant, but you first will have to 2045 01:45:35.479 --> 01:45:38.960 face me earlier in the night, and you can have 2046 01:45:39.079 --> 01:45:41.359 Roman reigns go over. But then you can have something 2047 01:45:41.399 --> 01:45:45.159 where maybe it's the authority, maybe it's just Triple H 2048 01:45:45.239 --> 01:45:48.159 and a fledgehammer, but you have them take out Roman 2049 01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.960 and not something that would be a long term injury, 2050 01:45:52.000 --> 01:45:54.680 but just something that he's out of the Royal Rumble. 2051 01:45:55.199 --> 01:45:56.680 And you go to the Royal. 2052 01:45:56.560 --> 01:45:59.600 Rumble match and you have you know, ten nine to 2053 01:45:59.600 --> 01:46:03.520 eight countdown, no Roman reigns, and then all of a 2054 01:46:03.600 --> 01:46:06.359 sudden and you know what, and I'm coming up with 2055 01:46:06.439 --> 01:46:08.840 this kind off the top of my head. So it 2056 01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:11.479 could be done in so many different ways. Maybe you 2057 01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:14.600 have Brock Lessner take his spot, you know, maybe he 2058 01:46:14.680 --> 01:46:17.800 was number five and he comes out and takes the spot, 2059 01:46:18.039 --> 01:46:20.760 or earlier, you know, brock Lesner declares, I'm going to 2060 01:46:20.840 --> 01:46:23.079 be in the Royal Rumble. But either way, you don't 2061 01:46:23.079 --> 01:46:24.680 have Roman in it. But Brock is an it, and 2062 01:46:24.840 --> 01:46:27.520 Brock wins the Rumble. So now the next night on 2063 01:46:27.680 --> 01:46:30.960 Raw you can have that question of, well, where does 2064 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:34.000 that leave WrestleMania or where does that leave the next 2065 01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:37.279 challenger for Brock And you have Hayman cut such a 2066 01:46:37.319 --> 01:46:41.479 brilliant promo. You know, hey, not only did we defeat 2067 01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:47.600 the Undertaker, we defeated John Cena twice. We went through 2068 01:46:48.000 --> 01:46:52.000 you know, from Survivor series to Royal Rumble. We went 2069 01:46:52.039 --> 01:46:56.319 through this guy, this guy, this guy. Then we went 2070 01:46:56.359 --> 01:47:01.079 into the Royal Rumble and we annihilated every single superstar 2071 01:47:01.359 --> 01:47:04.800 in the back. There is nobody else at this point, 2072 01:47:05.279 --> 01:47:07.720 maybe Brocks should go back to the UFC. Maybe we 2073 01:47:07.760 --> 01:47:09.960 should just go sit on his ranch and wait for 2074 01:47:10.079 --> 01:47:14.279 someone to step up worthy of facing him. Maybe we'll go, 2075 01:47:14.560 --> 01:47:16.880 you know, conquer something else, and then all of a 2076 01:47:16.920 --> 01:47:18.960 sudden you have Roman reigns come out and go, yeah, 2077 01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:22.399 you've beaten everybody, but you haven't beaten me. And then 2078 01:47:22.439 --> 01:47:25.560 you tell the story going into WrestleMania, where you at 2079 01:47:25.640 --> 01:47:30.159 least don't have the predictable Roman reigns, roll, rumblewin, And 2080 01:47:30.560 --> 01:47:34.119 while I don't think fans will reject Roman, they might 2081 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:37.560 reject the idea of him winning because it's just so 2082 01:47:37.720 --> 01:47:40.800 predictable and it's kind of like, oh, we were hoping 2083 01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:43.159 for a swerve, but you didn't give it to us. 2084 01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:47.239 And it's not like they were dying for Roman like 2085 01:47:47.279 --> 01:47:50.319 they were for Daniel Brian and they got their wish. 2086 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:52.920 It's more all right, they're building Roman. Oh, okay, he's 2087 01:47:52.920 --> 01:47:55.600 gonna win the row row. Uh he won it, okay, thanks. 2088 01:47:56.079 --> 01:47:58.560 You kind of can get away from that, and then 2089 01:47:58.600 --> 01:48:01.359 you kind of develop Roman as bad ass. That's stepping 2090 01:48:01.479 --> 01:48:05.279 up to lessener in it's the last hope essentially of 2091 01:48:05.319 --> 01:48:07.800 the WWE. To get that. 2092 01:48:10.199 --> 01:48:11.720 Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to 2093 01:48:11.760 --> 01:48:15.279 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. 2094 01:48:15.399 --> 01:48:19.840 Subscription details at PW torch dot com Slash paper copy. 2095 01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:22.800 It's twelve pages every week, packed with my TV reports, 2096 01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:25.399 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 2097 01:48:25.399 --> 01:48:27.680 the top story of the week, our pay per view 2098 01:48:27.720 --> 01:48:31.439 roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns 2099 01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:35.520 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan, and 2100 01:48:35.640 --> 01:48:39.399 Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news, and more. 2101 01:48:39.800 --> 01:48:43.439 PW Torch dot Com slash paper copy. Take a break 2102 01:48:43.439 --> 01:48:46.600 from screen time and settle in every week with the 2103 01:48:46.680 --> 01:48:49.720 Megadosa wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 2104 01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:53.079 newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two, 2105 01:48:53.600 --> 01:48:56.079 you can get a full year of home delivery for 2106 01:48:56.199 --> 01:48:59.239 just ninety nine dollars or try US four and eight 2107 01:48:59.279 --> 01:49:03.680 week trials. Description PW Torch dot Com Slash paper Copy. 2108 01:49:09.039 --> 01:49:11.239 Plus John right at the end of your last set, 2109 01:49:12.279 --> 01:49:13.239 I don't know if you can hear me. 2110 01:49:15.119 --> 01:49:17.960 Oh no, you're back, okay, So yeah, I mean, I 2111 01:49:17.960 --> 01:49:18.239 don't know. 2112 01:49:18.199 --> 01:49:20.039 If you've got the whole story, but I did. Yeah, 2113 01:49:20.039 --> 01:49:22.159 we just added five You were off for five seconds 2114 01:49:22.199 --> 01:49:22.800 most at most. 2115 01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:25.479 Yeah, okay, Yeah, So I mean that's that's just it's 2116 01:49:25.560 --> 01:49:27.840 just an idea of what they can do with far 2117 01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:30.640 as you know, storytelling and then as far as like 2118 01:49:30.720 --> 01:49:34.479 building him to be prepared and are are they on 2119 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:38.279 the right track with him? I think from a storytelling standpoint, 2120 01:49:38.640 --> 01:49:42.720 so far, so good. It's not blowing anybody away. I 2121 01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:46.399 think he needs a lot of work on the MIC, 2122 01:49:46.479 --> 01:49:50.399 and I don't necessarily think it's his fault because uh, 2123 01:49:50.880 --> 01:49:55.319 you can see it in him without him having to 2124 01:49:55.399 --> 01:49:59.680 do anything, that this guy's cool, that what he's saying 2125 01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:06.640 on TV is not really him. So I think if 2126 01:50:06.680 --> 01:50:10.239 you can find that balance of this is the way 2127 01:50:10.279 --> 01:50:13.640 we want to present you with here is your voice 2128 01:50:13.680 --> 01:50:17.239 injected into it, because I don't think it's as simple 2129 01:50:17.319 --> 01:50:19.439 and I and I you know, Wade, And while I 2130 01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:22.800 agree with with you and Austin on certain aspects and 2131 01:50:23.319 --> 01:50:28.439 you know, things shouldn't be overscripted, one percent agree. But 2132 01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:33.680 I also think that Steve Austin was in the business 2133 01:50:33.680 --> 01:50:39.439 for what fifteen years or more before he was cutting 2134 01:50:39.479 --> 01:50:40.520 amazing promos. 2135 01:50:40.680 --> 01:50:41.680 That's really good point here. 2136 01:50:41.760 --> 01:50:43.720 But yeah, if you went up to him in the 2137 01:50:43.800 --> 01:50:46.800 USWA I think it was, or you went up to 2138 01:50:46.840 --> 01:50:49.359 him when he was first stunning Steve Austin. I mean, 2139 01:50:49.520 --> 01:50:52.640 even he'll tell you that he didn't know what stunning 2140 01:50:52.640 --> 01:50:56.000 Steve Austin was and you just just go out there 2141 01:50:56.039 --> 01:50:58.279 and cut a money promo. Austin, you are well. 2142 01:50:58.319 --> 01:51:00.680 He he talked to Paul Hyman about that. John, he said, 2143 01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:03.520 when I left WCW and what TCW, Paul, you're the 2144 01:51:03.560 --> 01:51:06.199 one who taught me how to tap into who I 2145 01:51:06.439 --> 01:51:09.399 was on promos because he didn't know I mean, I'm paraphrasing, 2146 01:51:09.439 --> 01:51:11.319 but he didn't know who Stunning Steve was. But he 2147 01:51:11.359 --> 01:51:13.680 knew who he was, and Paul helped him tap into that. 2148 01:51:14.039 --> 01:51:17.359 And that brief day in ECW is what really was 2149 01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:19.600 birth of Stone Cold exactly? 2150 01:51:19.640 --> 01:51:22.960 And if you didn't have Paul Hayman telling him that, 2151 01:51:23.399 --> 01:51:25.760 you may never have had Stone Cold Steve Boston. So 2152 01:51:25.840 --> 01:51:28.319 I guess my point is, I think that you don't 2153 01:51:28.359 --> 01:51:30.399 need to overly script, but I think you need to 2154 01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:34.279 lead these guys until Roman goes I got it, listen, 2155 01:51:34.359 --> 01:51:36.079 I got it. You know, I don't think you would 2156 01:51:36.119 --> 01:51:38.800 walk up to Stone Cold right now and go, hey, man, 2157 01:51:39.159 --> 01:51:41.560 word for word, go ahead and say this for me, 2158 01:51:41.600 --> 01:51:44.880 because this is your promo. But I think that it 2159 01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:48.800 would have benefited him to have that in his debut 2160 01:51:48.880 --> 01:51:52.960 in WCW. Yep, you know, and go, hey, what what 2161 01:51:53.039 --> 01:51:55.760 is stunning Steve oh Man, I don't know. Well, okay, well, 2162 01:51:55.800 --> 01:51:57.880 I kind of have an idea. Can I can Can 2163 01:51:57.960 --> 01:52:00.000 we go over what I wrote for you oh Man? 2164 01:52:00.039 --> 01:52:01.960 And this is good, Okay, go out there, cut that 2165 01:52:02.600 --> 01:52:06.279 and eventually he starts finding out who's stunning or stone 2166 01:52:06.319 --> 01:52:10.600 cold is and he doesn't need someone to write for him. 2167 01:52:10.600 --> 01:52:13.880 But I don't know that Roman, and I could be wrong. 2168 01:52:14.039 --> 01:52:18.399 I don't know that Roman necessarily understands maybe certain points 2169 01:52:18.439 --> 01:52:21.199 that he would need to hit on from a story 2170 01:52:21.680 --> 01:52:25.359 telling standpoint, from a psychological standpoint. So I think it's 2171 01:52:25.399 --> 01:52:29.000 good to have someone there to lead him because I 2172 01:52:29.039 --> 01:52:32.439 think that, like the consensus online is God, just let 2173 01:52:32.479 --> 01:52:35.479 him talk, don't script him. And I think that he 2174 01:52:35.600 --> 01:52:37.960 might improve a little bit, but I think that he 2175 01:52:38.000 --> 01:52:40.800 would also regress a little bit. So if you just 2176 01:52:40.840 --> 01:52:43.600 had one guy who he was comfortable with, like I 2177 01:52:43.720 --> 01:52:47.760 had guys there that I could tell you to this day, 2178 01:52:48.159 --> 01:52:50.880 would prefer I was writing their promos to the people 2179 01:52:50.880 --> 01:52:54.479 that write their promos. And it's because we click, and 2180 01:52:54.520 --> 01:52:58.000 I didn't click with every person there. And I can 2181 01:52:58.079 --> 01:53:00.319 probably tell you that there's probably some people that go 2182 01:53:00.960 --> 01:53:02.920 This guy talks like he built such a rapport and 2183 01:53:02.960 --> 01:53:05.479 knew everyone's voice, he didn't know mine. I would agree 2184 01:53:05.479 --> 01:53:07.680 with him, but there were some people that I did, 2185 01:53:07.720 --> 01:53:11.760 and there was some people that would say, Hey, I 2186 01:53:11.960 --> 01:53:14.079 was assigned to this writer, but I want I want 2187 01:53:14.079 --> 01:53:16.119 to work with you on my promo. Sure, let's do it. 2188 01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:17.520 And it was always better. 2189 01:53:18.199 --> 01:53:24.640 And I think what you're what you're advocating is probably 2190 01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:27.680 for most guys a necessary step. But I think where 2191 01:53:27.680 --> 01:53:30.760 the frustration comes in, and this is where Steve Austin 2192 01:53:30.800 --> 01:53:32.800 and I are kind of in agreement. I think is 2193 01:53:33.600 --> 01:53:37.760 what you described should be done as a some of 2194 01:53:37.800 --> 01:53:39.800 what you described because a lot of a lot of 2195 01:53:39.840 --> 01:53:41.119 what you say is so. I don't want you to 2196 01:53:41.239 --> 01:53:43.600 jump and think I'm saying it this place or anything 2197 01:53:43.640 --> 01:53:46.119 he said. But in terms of, like with Roman Reigns, 2198 01:53:46.600 --> 01:53:49.880 working with him as a future top guy, near future 2199 01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:53.239 top guy, what they do with him in terms of 2200 01:53:53.319 --> 01:53:57.920 heavily scripting promos should be as part of an evolution 2201 01:53:58.079 --> 01:54:02.720 to get him to need less and less exact wording memorized. Agreed, Yeah, so, 2202 01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:04.760 and I thought you would agree with around that, And 2203 01:54:04.800 --> 01:54:09.319 I think that's where Randy Ort never really got off 2204 01:54:09.960 --> 01:54:12.479 the It's it's been a crutch for him. And he 2205 01:54:12.560 --> 01:54:15.479 never learned to walk without the crutch, and so his 2206 01:54:15.600 --> 01:54:17.720 crutch is I'm going to memorize it word for word 2207 01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:19.399 because I don't want to have to think out there. 2208 01:54:19.520 --> 01:54:21.359 I don't even want to feel out there. I just 2209 01:54:21.399 --> 01:54:23.399 want to be in some character that I've figured out 2210 01:54:23.399 --> 01:54:26.279 how to portray and memorize the words, and as I 2211 01:54:26.319 --> 01:54:28.359 speak them, I might even be thinking about what I'm 2212 01:54:28.359 --> 01:54:30.359 going to do tonight after the show, and I think 2213 01:54:30.399 --> 01:54:32.600 fans pick up on that. And that's what Steve Austin 2214 01:54:32.760 --> 01:54:35.760 really talks well about is And so what I'd like 2215 01:54:35.760 --> 01:54:38.079 to do is Roman reigns is yeah, work with them, 2216 01:54:38.079 --> 01:54:41.199 have him do some exact wording, but also as part 2217 01:54:41.239 --> 01:54:43.520 of that backstage process, because there's so much money on 2218 01:54:43.560 --> 01:54:45.600 the line with him, get him in a room with 2219 01:54:45.680 --> 01:54:48.359 a camera and a microphone, a boom mic or holding 2220 01:54:48.359 --> 01:54:51.520 it whatever, and have him cut the promo his way 2221 01:54:51.560 --> 01:54:55.840 without a script, where there's some bullet points and then yeah, 2222 01:54:55.880 --> 01:54:58.720 so then when he speaks it, he's then you can 2223 01:54:58.760 --> 01:55:00.760 tell him, Okay, hey, here's that's what you left out 2224 01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:03.159 of the script. But she did these parts so much 2225 01:55:03.159 --> 01:55:05.279 better and it felt so much more real. But here's 2226 01:55:05.279 --> 01:55:07.680 something that didn't naturally come to that's really important. That's 2227 01:55:07.680 --> 01:55:09.520 a point you need to make. So this is in 2228 01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:12.000 the script. You missed it. Let's try it again. Speak 2229 01:55:12.039 --> 01:55:15.039 from the heart, don't worry about word for word. But 2230 01:55:15.840 --> 01:55:17.520 you know, you got to hit this point. And I 2231 01:55:17.560 --> 01:55:20.560 think that step seems to be missing because Randy Orton 2232 01:55:20.600 --> 01:55:22.680 doesn't have it. You look at that roscript for Monday. 2233 01:55:22.840 --> 01:55:24.319 A lot of guys don't have it. Some go on, 2234 01:55:24.640 --> 01:55:26.640 some go into their own off on their own and 2235 01:55:26.680 --> 01:55:30.960 it works. But it's amazing how close almost word for 2236 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:32.159 words some of these promos are. 2237 01:55:32.640 --> 01:55:34.920 Yeah, you know, and wait, I'm I'm not an advocate 2238 01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:37.279 for word for word. You know what I would do 2239 01:55:37.560 --> 01:55:40.399 is I would write a promo out, Okay, I have 2240 01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:42.640 it word for word, and let's say I go up 2241 01:55:42.680 --> 01:55:44.720 to mis and I go, okay, here's what I got. 2242 01:55:44.840 --> 01:55:47.079 And the guys that I had, you know, a working 2243 01:55:47.119 --> 01:55:51.119 relationship with, they knew I'm bringing you draft one. This 2244 01:55:51.159 --> 01:55:54.359 is what's in my head. And let's just say they 2245 01:55:54.359 --> 01:55:57.479 looked at it and said perfect. I literally just want that. 2246 01:55:58.000 --> 01:56:00.439 I wouldn't care if they went out there and said 2247 01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:03.600 literally every single word on that sheet. But what I 2248 01:56:03.600 --> 01:56:05.960 would sit with them and go, okay, but how can 2249 01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:08.520 we make this more mis what makes you more comfortable? 2250 01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:10.880 And if I'm with Roman, I'm going, hey, I want 2251 01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:14.399 to say I'm going to beat your ass, and Roman 2252 01:56:14.439 --> 01:56:16.359 would go you know what, I wouldn't say I'm going 2253 01:56:16.439 --> 01:56:20.119 to beat your ass. I'd say this, and I'd go, cool, 2254 01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:24.600 it's your voice. But from the standpoint of where I'm 2255 01:56:24.640 --> 01:56:28.439 saying with the writers, is that in the nature of 2256 01:56:28.479 --> 01:56:31.520 the business right now. And I don't know if it's 2257 01:56:31.560 --> 01:56:34.680 exactly like that, but based off of saying you saying 2258 01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:37.119 that there's a script and they're saying word for word, 2259 01:56:37.359 --> 01:56:41.880 it's probably the same thing. Vince McMahon wants word for 2260 01:56:42.000 --> 01:56:44.319 word what is said on that paper set out there. 2261 01:56:44.720 --> 01:56:48.359 So if you're going to bring them a paper, yes, Roman, 2262 01:56:48.439 --> 01:56:50.479 I need you to say word for word what I'm 2263 01:56:50.479 --> 01:56:53.279 putting on this paper. But I want what's on this 2264 01:56:53.359 --> 01:56:56.479 paper coming from your mouth, not from mine. I'm just 2265 01:56:56.520 --> 01:56:59.479 giving you a guideline and I'm saying I think maybe 2266 01:56:59.479 --> 01:57:01.720 this would be a cool catchphrase, or maybe I think 2267 01:57:01.760 --> 01:57:04.680 that you should make sure that you hit on the 2268 01:57:04.760 --> 01:57:08.319 history of the shield in this promo. And at the end, 2269 01:57:08.560 --> 01:57:10.640 I think you need to say you're gonna kick his ass. 2270 01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:13.720 Now if you want to say everything completely different that 2271 01:57:13.880 --> 01:57:15.960 you want to hit on, like you said those bullet points, 2272 01:57:16.439 --> 01:57:18.560 I'm gonna write down what comes out to your mouth 2273 01:57:18.640 --> 01:57:21.439 and then he's gonna say it without reading anything. I'm 2274 01:57:21.479 --> 01:57:24.199 going to write it down and then i'm gonna go, Okay, 2275 01:57:24.479 --> 01:57:28.000 I'm gonna spend the next hour with you or till 2276 01:57:28.079 --> 01:57:30.359 you go out there, however long that may be, and 2277 01:57:30.399 --> 01:57:33.439 we're going to continue to cut this promo. Now it's 2278 01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:35.840 word for word on a sheet of paper, but it 2279 01:57:35.920 --> 01:57:38.760 came out of his mouth first, and that's the way 2280 01:57:38.840 --> 01:57:42.239 I would write for these guys. I would never say, 2281 01:57:42.479 --> 01:57:45.920 you have to say this unless these guys there was 2282 01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:49.880 certain talent that depended on what was written for them 2283 01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:51.760 and just going I don't know, just is this what 2284 01:57:51.800 --> 01:57:54.600 you have for me? Okay, I'm gonna say that. And 2285 01:57:54.680 --> 01:57:56.880 when I argue, you know, just let these guys go 2286 01:57:56.960 --> 01:57:59.760 out there and don't overscript them. There's it could be 2287 01:57:59.760 --> 01:58:03.079 a disaster for some. And I've talked to Randy. I 2288 01:58:03.119 --> 01:58:07.079 worked with Randy going into WrestleMania twenty six. He can 2289 01:58:07.119 --> 01:58:11.239 cut his own promos. He doesn't need someone writing them. 2290 01:58:11.279 --> 01:58:14.399 But maybe and I've never asked him, but maybe just 2291 01:58:14.479 --> 01:58:17.199 for him. He goes, look, I care more about what 2292 01:58:17.279 --> 01:58:19.359 happens in that ring, and I want to make sure 2293 01:58:19.399 --> 01:58:22.600 that everything's perfect. Plus I want to be able to 2294 01:58:22.640 --> 01:58:24.880 have my time to myself to do whatever it is 2295 01:58:24.880 --> 01:58:27.760 that I need to do, stretch, get my mind right, 2296 01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:30.239 and I don't want to think about what I want 2297 01:58:30.279 --> 01:58:32.159 to say out there. Tell me what you want me 2298 01:58:32.239 --> 01:58:35.000 to say, I'll do it because it's the least important 2299 01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:38.800 thing for me today. And maybe that's just the way that. 2300 01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:39.479 He likes it. 2301 01:58:39.920 --> 01:58:43.920 And while you know he's not the greatest actor in 2302 01:58:44.000 --> 01:58:48.079 the world, I mean, if it's gonna be a better 2303 01:58:49.680 --> 01:58:52.520 promo in the sense of the story you're getting across, 2304 01:58:52.640 --> 01:58:55.840 if he goes out there and goes and then you 2305 01:58:56.119 --> 01:58:59.840 need to come down here and see me in the ring, 2306 01:59:00.319 --> 01:59:02.960 if it tells a better story but not the greatest 2307 01:59:03.000 --> 01:59:05.680 acting as opposed to just going Randy go out there 2308 01:59:05.720 --> 01:59:07.119 now with the open mic, and he's like, dam I 2309 01:59:07.119 --> 01:59:09.279 didn't even think of anything. Oh, and he doesn't get 2310 01:59:09.319 --> 01:59:13.640 across the storyline points you're in the same boat man. 2311 01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:15.800 That was such a great promo. But wait, why are 2312 01:59:15.800 --> 01:59:19.359 they fighting again? I don't understand, you know, so, Yeah, 2313 01:59:19.479 --> 01:59:21.800 I think there's pros and cons to both sides. 2314 01:59:21.920 --> 01:59:25.319 Absolutely, and I do think that it makes sense that 2315 01:59:25.359 --> 01:59:28.520 there should be different methods used for different guys on 2316 01:59:28.560 --> 01:59:30.479 the top half of the roster. I think we're in 2317 01:59:30.560 --> 01:59:33.239 the lower half. You know, there's a level of efficiency 2318 01:59:33.239 --> 01:59:35.800 that just needs to happen in the process. If you 2319 01:59:35.920 --> 01:59:37.439 got to go tell me, but I have a couple 2320 01:59:37.439 --> 01:59:38.760 of followups to what you just said. If you've got 2321 01:59:38.760 --> 01:59:41.760 a few minutes, let's run through him real quick, super fast. 2322 01:59:42.239 --> 01:59:45.479 What amount of time do you think wrestlers in what's 2323 01:59:45.520 --> 01:59:51.439 the range top guys spend thinking about practicing and prepping 2324 01:59:51.439 --> 01:59:54.239 for the promo that we see on RAW that's you know, 2325 01:59:54.239 --> 01:59:56.640 somewhat an in ring promo, that's somewhat substantial. How much 2326 01:59:56.640 --> 01:59:57.920 time does the average guy put in or. 2327 01:59:57.840 --> 02:00:00.479 What's the range you're talking about that stage? 2328 02:00:00.840 --> 02:00:03.000 Yeah, before the show, the afternoon of the show. Does 2329 02:00:03.079 --> 02:00:05.600 Randy Orton put in three hours on his promo? Roman 2330 02:00:05.720 --> 02:00:07.800 rains two hours? Or is it more like, you know, 2331 02:00:07.880 --> 02:00:09.199 maybe fifteen or thirty minutes. 2332 02:00:11.920 --> 02:00:17.800 You know, there were talent that I would say, I 2333 02:00:17.840 --> 02:00:20.960 got your promo, let's go sit down and come up 2334 02:00:21.000 --> 02:00:25.600 with something, And then there were talent that I would 2335 02:00:25.680 --> 02:00:29.159 walk up and I'd go, here you go. They would 2336 02:00:29.199 --> 02:00:33.079 take it run off, and then you know, i'd see 2337 02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:34.800 them again later and go, hey, did you want to 2338 02:00:34.840 --> 02:00:37.239 go over anything? Or they'd be like, nope, I got it, 2339 02:00:37.279 --> 02:00:39.479 see you out there, all right, see you out there. 2340 02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:44.039 So those those types of people, I don't know. I 2341 02:00:44.039 --> 02:00:46.720 don't know if they just looked it over for twenty 2342 02:00:46.760 --> 02:00:50.840 minutes and then met me and Gorilla and said, Okay, 2343 02:00:50.880 --> 02:00:53.439 here's the promo. It's good. Yeah, okay, cool, I'm going 2344 02:00:53.479 --> 02:00:56.720 out there, or if they spent you know, eight hours. 2345 02:00:57.079 --> 02:01:02.119 I just know that any times that I really sort 2346 02:01:02.159 --> 02:01:10.119 of try to develop talent, swagger Miz McIntyre dBase those guys, 2347 02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:15.640 it was me sitting with them pretty much. Anytime that 2348 02:01:15.680 --> 02:01:18.279 they were free, not going over their match. I'd go 2349 02:01:18.359 --> 02:01:20.039 to catering with them and I'd eat with them and 2350 02:01:20.079 --> 02:01:21.720 I'd go, all right, what about face? 2351 02:01:21.760 --> 02:01:22.279 What about that? 2352 02:01:26.319 --> 02:01:28.800 I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin mcclellands. 2353 02:01:29.039 --> 02:01:31.439 We host Wrestling Coast to Coast where we scour the 2354 02:01:31.439 --> 02:01:34.279 wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 2355 02:01:34.520 --> 02:01:37.359 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 2356 02:01:37.399 --> 02:01:39.560 coast to coast is here to discover the men and 2357 02:01:39.600 --> 02:01:42.039 women who could be big time stars in a few years. 2358 02:01:42.319 --> 02:01:44.359 There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W 2359 02:01:44.560 --> 02:01:47.600 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's 2360 02:01:47.640 --> 02:01:49.640 local wrestling hotspots around the country. 2361 02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:51.880 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 2362 02:01:51.920 --> 02:01:54.159 gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris 2363 02:01:54.199 --> 02:01:56.199 complain about bad referees. 2364 02:01:56.039 --> 02:01:57.960 And justin bemoaning dog pal fins. 2365 02:01:58.119 --> 02:02:00.600 Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb 2366 02:02:00.600 --> 02:02:01.159 win a match. 2367 02:02:01.520 --> 02:02:03.920 How can I like? The name says we cover the 2368 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:06.479 hottest independent promotions from around the country, so just as 2369 02:02:06.560 --> 02:02:10.720 Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro Revolver and Beyond Wrestling. 2370 02:02:11.000 --> 02:02:13.479 Actually, Chris, I think we sick pretty much to wrestling. 2371 02:02:13.600 --> 02:02:16.039 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right. 2372 02:02:16.159 --> 02:02:18.720 Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 2373 02:02:18.720 --> 02:02:21.720 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your 2374 02:02:21.760 --> 02:02:24.680 podcast app a, subscribe to the PW Torch Daily Cast, 2375 02:02:25.079 --> 02:02:28.239 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 2376 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:32.800 Find full details on the pw Torchdailycast lineup at pwtrchdailycast 2377 02:02:32.880 --> 02:02:41.760 dot com. 2378 02:02:41.800 --> 02:02:46.319 I mean, I just always it was my They go 2379 02:02:46.399 --> 02:02:49.439 out there and everything that weigh you and the audience 2380 02:02:49.439 --> 02:02:56.239 sees is is gonna benefit them, but if it's good, 2381 02:02:56.600 --> 02:02:59.760 but it also is gonna benefit or hurt me if 2382 02:02:59.760 --> 02:03:02.840 it's not. And that's everything you don't see if it's 2383 02:03:02.840 --> 02:03:07.960 a horrible promo. Ray Mysterio. I remember the night after 2384 02:03:08.039 --> 02:03:09.680 ray Masterio won the title. I think it was a 2385 02:03:09.720 --> 02:03:12.279 fatal four way, and I had his promo and he 2386 02:03:12.439 --> 02:03:14.800 was sick and I didn't know he was sick, but 2387 02:03:14.880 --> 02:03:17.920 I found him and I said, hey, you know, here's 2388 02:03:17.920 --> 02:03:19.920 your promo. And he's like, okay, okay, I gotta go 2389 02:03:20.039 --> 02:03:21.399 round and I was like okay, and I was like 2390 02:03:21.439 --> 02:03:24.720 I'll come find you. I couldn't find him the entire 2391 02:03:25.279 --> 02:03:26.000 night at. 2392 02:03:26.000 --> 02:03:27.199 All though, And. 2393 02:03:29.000 --> 02:03:31.039 All of a sudden I see him in Gorilla the 2394 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:33.640 segment before and I was like, Ray, like, what do 2395 02:03:33.760 --> 02:03:36.560 we have you know? And he goes, I got it, 2396 02:03:36.600 --> 02:03:39.119 I got it, don't worry, and I was like okay, 2397 02:03:39.239 --> 02:03:41.600 because like literally I gave him just some bullet points 2398 02:03:41.600 --> 02:03:43.359 of things that I wanted to discuss with him. Hey, 2399 02:03:43.399 --> 02:03:44.800 we got to get over this. We got to get 2400 02:03:44.800 --> 02:03:48.079 over that. He goes out there and wide. It could 2401 02:03:48.119 --> 02:03:51.159 have been the worst promo anyone has ever cut in 2402 02:03:51.199 --> 02:03:55.680 the history of wrestling, and it's all I don't think 2403 02:03:55.720 --> 02:03:58.640 they cut it. It was on like a SmackDown, and 2404 02:03:58.720 --> 02:04:01.920 I just remember Vince looking at me and I was 2405 02:04:02.319 --> 02:04:04.640 we were in guerrilla after it was done, and he 2406 02:04:04.760 --> 02:04:07.119 sat me down and he was just like, I mean 2407 02:04:07.159 --> 02:04:09.880 he treated me like a child. Yeah, do you not 2408 02:04:10.000 --> 02:04:11.960 know how to write? And I'm thinking to myself, it's. 2409 02:04:11.840 --> 02:04:14.600 Like, did you throw Ray under the bus? 2410 02:04:15.600 --> 02:04:18.319 No, not at all. I and I and and so 2411 02:04:18.399 --> 02:04:20.479 Ray comes back after I'm talking to Vince. He sees 2412 02:04:20.560 --> 02:04:22.720 me talking to Vince, and you know, at the end, 2413 02:04:22.800 --> 02:04:26.319 you know, once once cooler heads prevailed, that's when Vince's like, listen, 2414 02:04:26.399 --> 02:04:28.399 I know, I know, you know what to do. And 2415 02:04:28.439 --> 02:04:30.680 I'm you know, blah blah blah, and I'm usually happy 2416 02:04:30.720 --> 02:04:32.840 with what you have, but come on, you know, and 2417 02:04:32.840 --> 02:04:34.680 I'm like, hey, it won't happen again. So sorry, I 2418 02:04:34.680 --> 02:04:37.159 didn't say anything. So Ray pulls me aside and he's like, 2419 02:04:37.199 --> 02:04:40.640 oh my god, man, I'm so sorry. I'm sick I 2420 02:04:40.680 --> 02:04:43.520 was I've been you know, doing this, doing that, and 2421 02:04:43.560 --> 02:04:45.520 I was just like, Ray, no problem. But I was like, man, 2422 02:04:45.680 --> 02:04:49.039 next time, Like I can't have you go out there 2423 02:04:49.039 --> 02:04:52.079 and do that. And he's like, I promise, Man, won't 2424 02:04:52.079 --> 02:04:54.159 happen again. I'm so sorry. I saw you talking to 2425 02:04:54.239 --> 02:04:58.399 Vince and you know there's there's that that happens. So 2426 02:04:59.079 --> 02:05:02.680 I'm effected. Ask me, no writer wants you to go 2427 02:05:02.760 --> 02:05:06.319 out there and have a bad promo. It affects It 2428 02:05:06.640 --> 02:05:10.680 affects the writer more than it affects the the the wrestler, 2429 02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:12.640 because I think, you know, you could go out there 2430 02:05:12.640 --> 02:05:14.479 and cut a bad promo but have a great match, 2431 02:05:14.520 --> 02:05:16.479 and I think people would be like, well, yeah, a 2432 02:05:16.520 --> 02:05:17.079 great match. 2433 02:05:17.479 --> 02:05:17.720 You know. 2434 02:05:17.800 --> 02:05:20.359 So I'm still kind of into them where I'm you know, 2435 02:05:20.520 --> 02:05:22.119 Ray goes out there and has a good match, and 2436 02:05:22.159 --> 02:05:25.319 while he's having a match, I'm getting shoot out right 2437 02:05:26.199 --> 02:05:28.479 and then. And my goal is to sit here and 2438 02:05:28.520 --> 02:05:31.520 go I want more opportunities. I want to move up 2439 02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:34.520 on the creative team. I want to be someone Vince 2440 02:05:34.560 --> 02:05:37.159 that you know you turn to and go John, I 2441 02:05:37.199 --> 02:05:39.560 need an idea or John, what would you say in this? 2442 02:05:40.119 --> 02:05:42.840 And I'm taking two steps back for you know, not 2443 02:05:42.880 --> 02:05:45.840 even two steps for every hundred steps you could take forward, 2444 02:05:46.279 --> 02:05:48.840 you have that one bad promo and you're back at 2445 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:51.000 the bottom, and then you got to you gotta crawl 2446 02:05:51.079 --> 02:05:53.680 back up again. So it's I don't know, I don't 2447 02:05:53.680 --> 02:05:57.039 know how long everyone takes. I can only tell you 2448 02:05:57.119 --> 02:06:02.800 that it varies from you know, like a Christ Jericho 2449 02:06:02.840 --> 02:06:05.000 is sometimes looking at it being like, okay, I know 2450 02:06:05.039 --> 02:06:06.600 what you what you kind of want me to say, 2451 02:06:06.560 --> 02:06:11.039 I got it, and then he just has it. But 2452 02:06:11.079 --> 02:06:13.359 then there's time that Chris Jericho has come into the 2453 02:06:13.399 --> 02:06:16.520 writer's room and we started a computer and you know, 2454 02:06:17.119 --> 02:06:21.239 meticulously put together a promo, going on the thesaurus and 2455 02:06:21.319 --> 02:06:25.079 finding the right words, and you know, spending three hours 2456 02:06:25.119 --> 02:06:28.159 writing his promo. And then sometimes he just says, I 2457 02:06:28.199 --> 02:06:30.319 know what I'm gonna say, and here write this down, 2458 02:06:30.520 --> 02:06:33.920 and you write it down and it's done. So I 2459 02:06:34.079 --> 02:06:37.439 would assume that sometimes somebody would spend five minutes, and 2460 02:06:37.479 --> 02:06:40.960 sometimes someone would spend the whole day going over their promo. 2461 02:06:41.000 --> 02:06:44.399 And I don't think there's anyone that just always spends 2462 02:06:44.520 --> 02:06:46.720 just a little amount of time or a lot. 2463 02:06:47.079 --> 02:06:51.079 Yeah, okay, so yeah, So the to put to you 2464 02:06:51.159 --> 02:06:55.880 when I put the damien in one sentence. It's really there. 2465 02:06:55.920 --> 02:07:01.199 What there is not a typical Narraw range of time. 2466 02:07:01.399 --> 02:07:05.359 It really is variable depending on the person, their their 2467 02:07:05.399 --> 02:07:07.439 skill set, the writer writing for them, the importance of 2468 02:07:07.479 --> 02:07:09.720 the promo, what else is going on. It's like there 2469 02:07:09.840 --> 02:07:11.680 really is. If somebody wanted to be a know it 2470 02:07:11.760 --> 02:07:13.159 all with their friends, we go, oh yeah, I know 2471 02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:16.560 wrestlers all spend twenty to forty minutes practicing promos. Like 2472 02:07:16.600 --> 02:07:18.960 that would be wrong because maybe two guys on the 2473 02:07:19.000 --> 02:07:22.119 roster spend that much time, four guys spend two hours, 2474 02:07:22.159 --> 02:07:25.000 and other three guys spend five hours, and one or 2475 02:07:25.000 --> 02:07:26.760 two or three guys spend less than ten minutes, and 2476 02:07:26.800 --> 02:07:31.000 they all maybe do good or bad promos, right, I mean, 2477 02:07:31.119 --> 02:07:33.039 I mean it's really it really is variable by the 2478 02:07:33.079 --> 02:07:36.239 person and their attitude and their approach, I mean exactly. 2479 02:07:36.279 --> 02:07:38.479 And I think the best example is like the Jericho one. 2480 02:07:38.520 --> 02:07:40.800 I mean, he can he can go twenty minutes or 2481 02:07:40.840 --> 02:07:43.000 he can go three hours. I think it just kind 2482 02:07:43.000 --> 02:07:44.880 of depends on the mindset of the person at their 2483 02:07:44.880 --> 02:07:47.279 time and really what they have going on. I know 2484 02:07:47.359 --> 02:07:50.199 that there's been times where, let's say I've had Jack 2485 02:07:50.239 --> 02:07:54.680 Swagger's promo, but he had a big match, so it's like, 2486 02:07:54.760 --> 02:07:57.239 oh man, I gotta I gotta get with Taker man. 2487 02:07:57.319 --> 02:07:59.960 And you know, just what is it that you got 2488 02:08:00.279 --> 02:08:03.239 for me? Like here it is, okay cool. I might 2489 02:08:03.319 --> 02:08:05.520 change this in this, but other than that, I like it. 2490 02:08:05.520 --> 02:08:09.079 I'm gonna roll with that. Okay cool. And yet, you know, 2491 02:08:09.479 --> 02:08:11.760 if you were to ask me, does the Swagger spend 2492 02:08:11.800 --> 02:08:13.560 a lot of time on his promos? I say, yeah, 2493 02:08:13.560 --> 02:08:15.840 for the most part, anytime I worked with him, we 2494 02:08:15.960 --> 02:08:18.960 spend a lot of time on him. But you can't 2495 02:08:18.960 --> 02:08:19.880 say that he did that. 2496 02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:23.840 Every single time, right, Yeah, yeah, I just I think 2497 02:08:23.880 --> 02:08:27.399 what the system should have and give him a letter 2498 02:08:27.399 --> 02:08:30.119 grade and well lit. On this note, the system should 2499 02:08:30.119 --> 02:08:32.640 have the ability to recognize wrestlers who are ready to 2500 02:08:32.640 --> 02:08:36.560 break away from someone else, giving them word for word 2501 02:08:36.560 --> 02:08:38.079 what the promo is going to be, and then that 2502 02:08:38.119 --> 02:08:40.600 person memorizing it. If it turns out that that is 2503 02:08:40.640 --> 02:08:44.199 one of the twenty or or twenty or thirty or 2504 02:08:44.199 --> 02:08:46.119 sixty percent whatever number it turns out to be at 2505 02:08:46.159 --> 02:08:48.039 on the rest of any given time, who are actually 2506 02:08:48.079 --> 02:08:51.000 better when they're just told here's what we're trying to 2507 02:08:51.000 --> 02:08:53.800 get across. Maybe they take some notes on it, and 2508 02:08:53.840 --> 02:08:55.600 then they just get that in their head and they 2509 02:08:55.600 --> 02:08:58.159 go out there and they come come pretty close to improvising, 2510 02:08:58.399 --> 02:09:00.159 and it works for him. There should be something that 2511 02:09:00.239 --> 02:09:04.199 allows that Stone called Steve Austin type, the Jim Cornett type, 2512 02:09:04.279 --> 02:09:10.119 Paul Hayman, to break away and succeed expressing their own voice, 2513 02:09:10.119 --> 02:09:12.840 in their own tone and not seeming like they're reading 2514 02:09:12.840 --> 02:09:15.520 a script. But it's good that the system is in 2515 02:09:15.560 --> 02:09:19.079 place because maybe most guys will never be that. And 2516 02:09:19.439 --> 02:09:22.079 in today's wrestling, you can have two or three minutes 2517 02:09:22.079 --> 02:09:25.279 eating up with wrestlers who literally are doing what Ray 2518 02:09:25.319 --> 02:09:26.439 did on that day when he was sick. 2519 02:09:27.319 --> 02:09:30.720 Yeah, but I think also too, there are guys that 2520 02:09:30.800 --> 02:09:36.159 were given that opportunity. Yeah, I mean seen a HBK Undertaker, 2521 02:09:36.479 --> 02:09:41.880 Triple H. They weren't scripted, you know, we wrote down 2522 02:09:41.880 --> 02:09:44.760 their promos because Vince wanted to see them, but those 2523 02:09:44.800 --> 02:09:47.880 guys went out there instead what they wanted to say 2524 02:09:48.479 --> 02:09:52.319 and it worked for them. So, yes, what your idea 2525 02:09:53.159 --> 02:09:55.800 is great, but you have to get to that point 2526 02:09:55.920 --> 02:10:00.399 to not only where you are able to up with 2527 02:10:00.439 --> 02:10:03.079 something like that and know how to tell a story 2528 02:10:03.119 --> 02:10:06.079 with your promo and do it well, but to gain 2529 02:10:06.199 --> 02:10:09.800 Vince's trust, and like, I think that you know a 2530 02:10:09.880 --> 02:10:11.680 story that I told you was that when I was 2531 02:10:11.680 --> 02:10:14.680 working with MS, eventually we walked into Vince's office and 2532 02:10:14.720 --> 02:10:17.039 he's like, I was like, I got Missus promo and 2533 02:10:17.039 --> 02:10:18.800 He's like, I don't. I don't need you to bring 2534 02:10:18.840 --> 02:10:21.840 me missus promos anymore. I trust he got to that point. 2535 02:10:21.840 --> 02:10:23.760 So if MIS wanted to go out there and go 2536 02:10:24.239 --> 02:10:27.159 I want to say this, he had the power to 2537 02:10:27.199 --> 02:10:29.279 do that. I don't know if he still holds that power, 2538 02:10:29.680 --> 02:10:32.439 but yeah, you do get to that point, and I 2539 02:10:32.439 --> 02:10:37.920 think even Vince recognizes that and they're given that opportunity 2540 02:10:37.960 --> 02:10:41.600 to do it. But I think Vince still wants a 2541 02:10:41.640 --> 02:10:47.359 stranglehold on everything that's that's all put on the show 2542 02:10:47.640 --> 02:10:50.359 and just to know what it is. So you know, 2543 02:10:50.439 --> 02:10:54.399 in Austin's case, it would be where I'm sure he 2544 02:10:54.439 --> 02:10:57.199 wouldn't care what Austin said, but I think he'd still 2545 02:10:57.319 --> 02:10:59.760 want it down on a piece of paper. So that 2546 02:11:00.239 --> 02:11:04.319 for Vinc's reasons, he has it because John Cena was 2547 02:11:04.520 --> 02:11:07.119 I mean, yeah, it's. 2548 02:11:07.279 --> 02:11:08.920 The point is is that it does get to that 2549 02:11:09.039 --> 02:11:11.319 point where YEH got do go out there and cut 2550 02:11:11.359 --> 02:11:12.880 their promos without a script. 2551 02:11:13.479 --> 02:11:15.199 And I think a really good point you made John 2552 02:11:15.199 --> 02:11:17.560 that that's worth stressing is a lot of times when 2553 02:11:17.560 --> 02:11:19.800 people see a raw script and it's word for word 2554 02:11:19.800 --> 02:11:22.840 what the wrestler said, that doesn't mean that that wrestler 2555 02:11:22.880 --> 02:11:25.399 was handed that script and they read it and memorized it. 2556 02:11:25.439 --> 02:11:28.319 A lot of times that's the final script that the 2557 02:11:28.359 --> 02:11:31.960 wrestler and the writer worked on together and it got in. 2558 02:11:32.079 --> 02:11:34.199 What the wrestler wanted to say got written. 2559 02:11:33.880 --> 02:11:38.560 Down, Oh exactly, and that's that's that's what happens with 2560 02:11:38.560 --> 02:11:40.119 with those guys in that position. 2561 02:11:40.560 --> 02:11:42.039 Yeah, yeah, like. 2562 02:11:42.000 --> 02:11:45.119 Okay, s or HBK, what do you want to say? 2563 02:11:45.119 --> 02:11:46.840 I want to say this, this, this, this, and this 2564 02:11:47.039 --> 02:11:48.600 all right, I wrote it down. Thanks to go out 2565 02:11:48.640 --> 02:11:50.520 there and do it, and you don't have to take 2566 02:11:50.560 --> 02:11:52.840 it to Vince, but he does want it written down 2567 02:11:52.840 --> 02:11:53.359 in the script. 2568 02:11:54.039 --> 02:11:57.359 Yes. No, I think that's actually a really good point 2569 02:11:57.359 --> 02:12:00.359 to end on people looking at that script thinking oh god, 2570 02:12:00.399 --> 02:12:02.439 they're just writing anything out word for word. Wrestlers need 2571 02:12:02.479 --> 02:12:05.960 more safe so a wrestlers do rise above word for 2572 02:12:06.000 --> 02:12:07.880 word scripts and they come up with their own stuff. 2573 02:12:07.920 --> 02:12:09.479 If you get to that level and you get trusted 2574 02:12:09.520 --> 02:12:11.760 that opportunity is there. And number two, a lot of 2575 02:12:11.760 --> 02:12:14.520 those word for word scripts are simply a documentation of 2576 02:12:14.520 --> 02:12:17.880 what a wrestler himself came up with exactly. 2577 02:12:17.920 --> 02:12:22.560 And you know what I think too that, knowing Vince, 2578 02:12:22.720 --> 02:12:29.319 if let's say stone Cold got to got to Rain 2579 02:12:29.680 --> 02:12:34.000 and said Roman, I think you'd be better just going 2580 02:12:34.079 --> 02:12:36.760 out there and shooting the shit and being yourself and 2581 02:12:37.159 --> 02:12:39.119 just kind of saying what bullet points do you want 2582 02:12:39.159 --> 02:12:42.119 them to have? And I think that if Rains went 2583 02:12:42.199 --> 02:12:45.920 to Vince had said I can knock it out of 2584 02:12:45.960 --> 02:12:49.880 the park. I don't need anything written for me, just 2585 02:12:49.920 --> 02:12:52.760 give me the bullet points. I truly believe that Vince 2586 02:12:52.760 --> 02:12:55.319 would at least give him the opportunity to try to 2587 02:12:55.359 --> 02:12:59.159 do that. So you know, if if a Stone Cold 2588 02:12:59.319 --> 02:13:01.760 was in the w W right now and he went 2589 02:13:01.800 --> 02:13:04.840 to Vince and said, God damn, Vince, I can't do 2590 02:13:04.920 --> 02:13:06.439 it like this. I need to go out there and 2591 02:13:06.479 --> 02:13:08.479 I need to feel it and I and I know 2592 02:13:08.560 --> 02:13:10.640 what I need to get across. We've talked about it. 2593 02:13:10.720 --> 02:13:12.520 Trust me, I think Vince. 2594 02:13:12.279 --> 02:13:14.319 Would go go out there and do it. Then, but 2595 02:13:15.000 --> 02:13:17.880 you fail and then you've lost that opportunity. 2596 02:13:17.960 --> 02:13:21.479 So you know, and Stone Cold would know that he's 2597 02:13:21.520 --> 02:13:25.079 dealt with Vince way longer than I ever did. And 2598 02:13:25.680 --> 02:13:29.439 if you go to Vince nine times out of ten. 2599 02:13:29.680 --> 02:13:34.479 The answer is going to be yes, interesting, yep, yep. 2600 02:13:34.920 --> 02:13:38.319 Yeah. I mean it's not gonna be it's not gonna be. Hey, 2601 02:13:38.359 --> 02:13:39.800 I want to come out and you know. 2602 02:13:43.399 --> 02:13:45.640 I can only imagine what you're thinking right now, but yes. 2603 02:13:45.720 --> 02:13:46.319 Right exactly. 2604 02:13:46.359 --> 02:13:49.479 I'm trying to like dumb it down or pg it 2605 02:13:49.560 --> 02:13:51.720 down a little bit, but you get what I'm saying, 2606 02:13:52.359 --> 02:13:55.359 And yeah, he'd go, No, that's not in the context 2607 02:13:55.359 --> 02:13:57.479 of what we're trying to put out there. But if 2608 02:13:57.520 --> 02:13:59.640 you went to him with a request like that, just 2609 02:13:59.640 --> 02:14:02.319 give me the opportunity, then let me show you that 2610 02:14:02.399 --> 02:14:05.520 I can do this, he would go. You absolutely have. 2611 02:14:05.560 --> 02:14:11.439 The very good John, thank you for great discussion. Your 2612 02:14:11.439 --> 02:14:13.680 phone connection went out again, so I know you're about 2613 02:14:13.720 --> 02:14:15.640 half hour late from where you needed to be anyway, 2614 02:14:15.640 --> 02:14:17.920 and that's why that's happening. So thank you very much. 2615 02:14:18.520 --> 02:14:22.520 Great discussion and really appreciate it. I learned a lot 2616 02:14:22.720 --> 02:14:24.880 and it's great having John on the show. I think 2617 02:14:24.880 --> 02:14:26.920 that as often as he's been on the show, I 2618 02:14:27.000 --> 02:14:29.359 just think, well, there won't be you know, he's probably 2619 02:14:29.680 --> 02:14:32.479 run out of anecdotes, you know, from actual first had experience, 2620 02:14:32.520 --> 02:14:34.600 and there were several there that I don't remember hearing 2621 02:14:34.600 --> 02:14:38.640 before from him, and really good insights. So everybody's AVIP member, 2622 02:14:38.640 --> 02:14:40.560 I think, gained some knowledge and they can look at 2623 02:14:40.560 --> 02:14:43.960 that rosscript a little differently and look at the WWE 2624 02:14:44.000 --> 02:14:46.760 creative process with a greater level of understanding. Whether you 2625 02:14:46.840 --> 02:14:49.079 agree or disagree with it anymore, at least you have 2626 02:14:49.119 --> 02:14:51.800 a stronger foundation to work from when deciding if you'd 2627 02:14:51.840 --> 02:14:54.239 like if you think their approach is the best approach 2628 02:14:54.279 --> 02:14:56.960 to take. So on that note, with big thanks to 2629 02:14:57.039 --> 02:14:58.960 John for he went a half hour longer than he 2630 02:14:58.960 --> 02:15:01.359 said he could with an engagement that he had tonight, 2631 02:15:02.199 --> 02:15:04.880 but obviously he was able to continue talking well working 2632 02:15:04.920 --> 02:15:07.960 his way there. I really appreciate that. And on that note, 2633 02:15:08.000 --> 02:15:11.359 I think, first and foremost, our VIP members, your individual 2634 02:15:11.359 --> 02:15:15.039 paid membership to PW Torch VIP, pw torch dot com 2635 02:15:15.039 --> 02:15:17.960 slash members, is what makes it possible for us to 2636 02:15:17.960 --> 02:15:19.560 do what we do here on the live cast, or 2637 02:15:19.560 --> 02:15:22.239 what we do here on the VIP after show part 2638 02:15:22.239 --> 02:15:24.399 of the live cast, and everything else we do in 2639 02:15:24.439 --> 02:15:27.399 the entire staff, uh, day after day after day, no 2640 02:15:27.520 --> 02:15:31.399 days off. Darren Young and I share that in common, 2641 02:15:32.920 --> 02:15:36.079 the no days off approach to what we do here, 2642 02:15:36.319 --> 02:15:38.479 and we love it and we just every day. I 2643 02:15:38.560 --> 02:15:41.520 just am feel thankful that you guys as customers enjoy 2644 02:15:41.560 --> 02:15:43.039 what we do and what we put into it and 2645 02:15:43.079 --> 02:15:45.399 the information we're able to bring you and a point 2646 02:15:45.439 --> 02:15:47.600 of view and all that good stuff. So again, thank 2647 02:15:47.640 --> 02:15:50.159 you very much and the film. Next time. Wade Keller 2648 02:15:50.279 --> 02:15:50.760 signing off. 2649 02:16:08.239 --> 02:16:10.680 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions 2650 02:16:10.800 --> 02:16:15.199 or comments. That email address is Wadekeller Podcast at petwtorch 2651 02:16:15.279 --> 02:16:18.880 dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW toorch dot com. 2652 02:16:18.880 --> 02:16:21.640 Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on 2653 02:16:21.680 --> 02:16:25.439 Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the Wadekeller 2654 02:16:25.720 --> 02:16:29.560 That's at PW Torch and at the Wadekeller. 2655 02:16:30.840 --> 02:16:33.840 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 2656 02:16:34.000 --> 02:16:37.680 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 2657 02:16:37.920 --> 02:16:40.239 Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from 2658 02:16:40.239 --> 02:16:42.319 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 2659 02:16:42.360 --> 02:16:45.280 with other pro wrestling media members, plus the Pro Wrestling 2660 02:16:45.319 --> 02:16:48.680 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2661 02:16:48.680 --> 02:16:52.399 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 2662 02:16:52.440 --> 02:16:55.600 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 2663 02:16:55.600 --> 02:17:01.559 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 2664 02:17:01.760 --> 02:17:03.719 Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we 2665 02:17:03.760 --> 02:17:08.280 also have a website, pw torch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 2666 02:17:08.639 --> 02:17:11.680 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown 2667 02:17:11.920 --> 02:17:15.920 and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. 2668 02:17:16.159 --> 02:17:18.239 Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop. 2669 02:17:18.399 --> 02:17:20.559 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 2670 02:17:20.559 --> 02:17:25.280 on breaking news and more. That's PW torch dot com. 2671 02:17:25.600 --> 02:17:28.760 Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, 2672 02:17:28.920 --> 02:17:32.040 will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress 2673 02:17:32.079 --> 02:17:35.680 Paradise at Pterbeo Torch vip as we mask on the 2674 02:17:35.719 --> 02:17:38.360 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 2675 02:17:38.399 --> 02:17:42.840 great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, 2676 02:17:43.200 --> 02:17:44.399 Europe or Mexico. 2677 02:17:45.000 --> 02:17:47.760 There's always a place for wrestlings past and the paradise too, 2678 02:17:48.000 --> 02:17:50.520 and we've done fun historical shows such as the We 2679 02:17:50.639 --> 02:17:55.319 Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger 2680 02:17:55.440 --> 02:17:57.680 and our I was there when shows where our guests 2681 02:17:57.680 --> 02:18:00.159 will join me to talk about a classic band that 2682 02:18:00.200 --> 02:18:03.319 they were in attendance for. 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Thank 2703 02:19:02.200 --> 02:19:02.719 you so much. 2704 02:19:06.239 --> 02:19:10.440 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 2705 02:19:10.559 --> 02:19:13.840 ultimately the brand you see today. 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