1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Susan Euclaia from Nantis, Texas. I play 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,640 at the Links at lands In. This is Golf Smarter 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:10,880 number nine eighty five. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: When we're out there on a regular design and we're 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,519 walking a site or just a site in general, you've 6 00:00:16,519 --> 00:00:19,039 probably heard of the expression that we design on a 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,640 blank canvas. I don't like using that phrase on regular design, 8 00:00:22,719 --> 00:00:25,280 and I don't use it because it's never a blank canvas. 9 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:28,800 You're designing on nature. Nature is the signature of our projects. 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,479 I don't use that expression. And what happened with tjil is, 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,159 all of a sudden, we do have a blank campus 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,560 and the challenge is not only a blank canvas. You know, 13 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,399 the design of the holes, the strategy, but also the surroundings. 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,119 Speaker 1: Where is this located? 15 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: So now we also have to have to think about 16 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:50,359 where is it located. Is it in a mountain, is 17 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:52,280 it a new desert, is it on the links course? 18 00:00:52,359 --> 00:00:56,280 Is it on all of these things we had to envision. 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,640 So we're designing the three sixty of each hole, not 20 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:03,479 only just the whole itself. 21 00:01:03,719 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: For the first. 22 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: Time in my career, I was designing on a plank campus. 23 00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: A look behind the curtain of tgl's whole design process 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,200 with course architect Oggie Pieza. 25 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from 26 00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:27,439 great golf minds to help you lower your score and 27 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:28,959 raise your golf IQ. 28 00:01:29,879 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green. 29 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast, Oggy. 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,359 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Fred. 31 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 3: We're laughing because we've just spent the last half hour 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:46,200 trying to get this thing to work, to get the 33 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:51,000 recording to work and the phone and everything. But we've 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,959 done it. We're recording now and I'm so excited to 35 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,359 talk to you about TGL. And I hope that you 36 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,959 don't have these glitches going on with TV yes, because 37 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,959 it's much bigger because that's live. We're recorded, and you 38 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,920 don't need that kind of issue going on. 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: Well, I can control this. 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: I can't control tg OFF and so I think we 41 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:15,759 have this all under control, you know, but. 42 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: It doesn't work. We can either blame ESPN or Mercury 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,560 and retrograde. 44 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: This is great, So yeah, exactly, So, Yeah, I'm a 45 00:02:26,479 --> 00:02:28,919 fantastic It's it's great to talk to you always, Fred, 46 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,360 you know the uh I like I've always liked the 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,719 angle of your of your interviews. So so let's have fun. 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: You, let's have some fun. Let's have some fun. I 49 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:41,479 am really fired up about TGL. I'm you know, I'm 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,240 begging my friends to watch it, and they're like, yeah, 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,439 I haven't seen it. And you know a couple of 52 00:02:46,479 --> 00:02:48,599 people that that is like, okay, I'll go watch it now. 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,439 I'll get a text from fifteen minutes later like Okay. 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:51,759 Speaker 1: This is fun. 55 00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, and and it's only going to catch 56 00:02:56,039 --> 00:02:59,560 on a little by little chunks by chunks. You never 57 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,639 know it. It has all the entertainment value you want. 58 00:03:03,719 --> 00:03:06,879 I mean, I'm enjoying it very much. I absolutely love it. 59 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,560 Of course I'm biased, but the same experience that you 60 00:03:10,599 --> 00:03:14,840 are having I'm having with my friends and people that 61 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,599 text me are like, give it a shot. You know 62 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,400 it's on Mondays or Tuesdays now Mondays. Just enjoy good 63 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:29,080 good a good fun, a great show, fantastic production, great 64 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,879 whole designs. If I may say, and I'm speaking for 65 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,680 the three of us, I'm speaking for bow Welling, Nicholas 66 00:03:35,719 --> 00:03:39,680 Design and ourselves, I think it's we brought in a 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,919 very cool and exciting balance to the overall fifteen Holes 68 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:47,159 experience and I don't know. 69 00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying every every bit of it. Yeah. 70 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, And as we're recording this, tonight is the fourth 71 00:03:57,319 --> 00:04:01,840 week of TGL where it's this has been building up 72 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,599 to Tiger versus Rory, their two teams. What is it 73 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,840 Boston versus Florida? Is that what's happening? 74 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,639 Speaker 1: Jupiter? Jupiter against Boston. And I think I think they've 75 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,040 done a fantastic job Fred of how you know, there's 76 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:22,120 there's so many masterminds behind the production. I really loved how. 77 00:04:21,879 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: They brought, you know, the uh, the story, the storytelling 78 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,519 together and how it build up from week one to 79 00:04:29,639 --> 00:04:32,680 week two when we had when we had Tiger and 80 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,560 then and then week three we had another very very 81 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,839 nice clash. The Yes, you can argue the games have 82 00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:42,680 been have been a little bit lopsided, but that's that's sports. 83 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: That's part, that's part of that's the that explains that 84 00:04:47,439 --> 00:04:49,480 it is that it is a competition, it is a. 85 00:04:49,399 --> 00:04:53,319 Speaker 2: Sport, it is there is something exactly are cool things 86 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,959 happening out there? If everything every game was closed, if 87 00:04:56,959 --> 00:05:00,079 everything well, hopefully we wanted to get to that. But 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,519 but you know, everybody needs to adapt to this. Everybody 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,279 needs to to uh to uh. Everybody needs everybody needs 90 00:05:08,319 --> 00:05:12,319 to adapt. Everybody needs to uh to start, you know, 91 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,279 and and uh and and now building it up like 92 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:21,240 you well mentioned to to uh Tiger against Tiger's team 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,240 against Rory's team. 94 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: I can't not wait. And the beautiful part is that 95 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,120 the first hole is one of ours. 96 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: It's the flex uh with the lava that you've probably seen, 97 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:37,639 and we're very very excited for that, uh for that 98 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:38,360 first hole. 99 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:41,439 Speaker 3: Well, we're going to go into detail about each of 100 00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:45,040 the holes uh and everything else, but it seems like 101 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:49,759 what everyone's talking about so far is uh. The first 102 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,639 week the Tigers team was playing and Kissner hit out 103 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:58,720 of the bunker and almost killed somebody, uh smashed into 104 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,199 the flag. It just brought out the humanity in Tiger, 105 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:10,959 which we've always witnessed, the competitive Tiger, you know, serious driven, 106 00:06:11,399 --> 00:06:14,360 gonna win this time, gonna win this time. But he's 107 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:17,879 laughing and he's you know, like doubling over over in laughter, 108 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:21,279 and everyone's like that was awesome to see Tiger as 109 00:06:21,319 --> 00:06:22,240 a human being. 110 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,519 Speaker 1: That is that is that is what we get at 111 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:24,759 t J. 112 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: I think that that humane side that uh, you know 113 00:06:28,959 --> 00:06:34,120 a little bit of the fun factor. Uh, that's what 114 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,600 we're looking for. Obviously competitive, obviously everything that we want, 115 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,879 you know, the the everything we're looking for. 116 00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:43,639 Speaker 1: That we're just we're just greedy. We're looking for everything. 117 00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: We're looking for everything on TJ and including fun entertainment. 118 00:06:49,199 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: So so you know, that's that's uh, that's that's what 119 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:55,360 it that's that's what we're enjoying right now. 120 00:06:55,399 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: And that and that shot from Kisser. You know it 121 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:04,360 wasn't planned, of course, not, of course not, but yeah, 122 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:07,680 it's uh, I'm just lad it hit the flag. 123 00:07:07,399 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: Post, and yeah, exactly exactly. And you know the potential 124 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:17,360 just watching a couple of weeks and you're seeing potential 125 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,000 that first of all, you got two hours of top 126 00:07:23,079 --> 00:07:26,959 notch golfers, right and as opposed to like, you know, 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,879 this past week and they're complaining about how long the 128 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,279 rounds to Tory Pines and here you got two hours 129 00:07:33,319 --> 00:07:38,160 controlled and the fact that you know, we all know 130 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,680 that Tiger's gonna have a difficult time walking seventy two 131 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,480 holes these days and be competitive, but in this environment 132 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:48,759 where he doesn't have to do a lot of walking, 133 00:07:48,839 --> 00:07:53,439 he could just showcases his golf prowess as opposed to 134 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,879 his physical stamina. It just brings in the idea that 135 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,279 wait a minute, it doesn't just have to be PGA 136 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,759 tour players. We can get some of the champions players, 137 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,839 we can get some of the retired guys back in. 138 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,600 I'd love to see a team with men and women together. 139 00:08:10,079 --> 00:08:14,920 Let's get the LPGA out there, right And Mac Baarnhart 140 00:08:14,959 --> 00:08:18,000 and I were joking about and at some point I 141 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:20,560 want to see when somebody is teeing up the beverage 142 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,360 cart to pull up. 143 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: I love that. 144 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,439 Speaker 2: You know, this is uh, you bring up so many 145 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,240 good points and and one and one that we that. 146 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: That it was. You know that we all wish and 147 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:37,639 think is that we get we get tired for the 148 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:38,919 next fifteen years. 149 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,799 Speaker 2: You know, that's beautiful. Let's get him out there. I 150 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:46,240 mean because when you see that swing, it's a beautiful swing. Yes, 151 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,120 you know, it's just that it's. 152 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,759 Speaker 1: Just a work of art in motion. 153 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: So so yes, of course, I mean, hey, we all 154 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:58,480 know as golfers, I mean for you know, as at 155 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:03,120 that level of petition. You know, we're walking there were 156 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:08,320 they're walking a marathon every single week. That's what it 157 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,840 That's what it that what it's what it's almost equivalent 158 00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:17,720 to you're you're walking hilly uphill, downhill competing. 159 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:19,039 Speaker 1: Uh. 160 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,279 Speaker 2: Luckily you don't get to carry the bag, but your 161 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,159 caddy does. But it at the end you're with with 162 00:09:26,519 --> 00:09:29,759 the practice rounds and the competitiveness. If you make the cut, 163 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,240 you are walking a marathon every single week in weekend. 164 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,399 So obviously that takes a toll on you. And that 165 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,960 is part of the beauty of competitive golf, and the 166 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,399 and the and and and the four days that you're 167 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:49,559 out there. It's uh, it's it's that, it is. It 168 00:09:49,639 --> 00:09:52,639 is also it is also part of it. You know, 169 00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:58,120 golf doesn't give you the physical condition, but it does 170 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,000 require it. 171 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: So it is it is. It is something very very. 172 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: Interesting you bring up and I think that, uh that 173 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,200 what happened? What what's what we're going to see out there? Yes, 174 00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:10,799 of course, now now you can. 175 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: You know, uh, we we can talk about maybe the champions, 176 00:10:14,799 --> 00:10:17,480 you know, at that different level, celebrities, et cetera. 177 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:20,799 Speaker 2: It's only going to get better. Fred, I'll guarantee it's 178 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,360 only going to get better. It's it's it's a beautiful 179 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,679 thing that we're living right now with the with technology 180 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,159 and that and the game we. 181 00:10:29,159 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 3: Love, right, right, I want to see Trevino out there. 182 00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:35,840 I want to see John Day out there, right, and 183 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:38,960 bring in the mystery team. Mac was suggesting, bring in 184 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,440 the mystery team. Let's have a team with Brooks. 185 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: Right, and now you want all the mascots too, come on. 186 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:51,279 Speaker 3: People playing mask? 187 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,759 Speaker 1: No? But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it is a 188 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:57,440 beautiful thing. Uh. 189 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: And then one thing we have to also address up 190 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:03,000 to all. You know, I know there's a lot of purists. 191 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,879 I consider myself up a slash purists as well. Obviously, 192 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:13,120 it's it's it's not a competition against against that part 193 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:13,639 of golf. 194 00:11:14,039 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: It's a fork. 195 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:19,519 Speaker 2: It's another avenue to enjoy the beautiful game of golf. 196 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:23,080 If you look at it that way, just you know, 197 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,320 it's just another avenue. And I think it's I think 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,320 it's a beautiful again. I repeat, it's a beautiful thing. 199 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,159 We are living now. 200 00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 3: One of the elements that I'm so excited to talk 201 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:44,279 to you about is and that I think is the 202 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,559 really cool side of what they've done with TGL is 203 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,799 to say, let's not play, you know, like a normal 204 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,679 simulator that most people have where they're going, hey, we're 205 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,679 gonna play Saint Andrews. Hey, we're gonna play pebble Beach, right, 206 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,159 they're saying, no, these are going to be holes that 207 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:04,600 no one's ever played before, because we don't want to 208 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,759 put any limitations on our architects, on our course designers. 209 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,879 And you were blessed to be one of three design 210 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,320 groups that were invited. Am I you did an audition 211 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,919 for this? You were invited? I'm assuming yes. 212 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:23,399 Speaker 2: I mean I don't know what went in the back 213 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,200 and in the in the back, but uh, but but 214 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,879 we we received the call and of course an interview 215 00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:33,000 and then the uh then the int the official invitation 216 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:33,759 and thumbs up. 217 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: Uh to process. Well, it was, uh, it was. It 218 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:42,120 was obviously imagine this is all this is two years ago, 219 00:12:42,279 --> 00:12:44,360 with everything that happened, right, Yeah, so you have to 220 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,320 put in perspective. 221 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 2: We were we were excited from you know, two years 222 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,519 ago to today, receiving that call, making the trip to Orlando, Florida, 223 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,960 interviewing with Scott and Andrew. 224 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,879 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful interview, beautiful chat. It was. It was. 225 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:01,519 It was good. 226 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:05,159 Speaker 2: It was good all over that Luckily we got we 227 00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:10,080 we were appointed to be the third the third team. 228 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:10,519 Speaker 1: Uh. 229 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: That they were looking for and just imagine for for 230 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:16,120 a year and. 231 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: A half we couldn't talk about it. 232 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,399 Speaker 2: So that's that's probably on a personal note, and for 233 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,639 our team, that's probably the uh, the the. 234 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: A good story to tell because you're on embargo. 235 00:13:29,039 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of like when you're in those 236 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,000 in those shows of of uh, you know, Big Brother 237 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,200 or whatever they reality and you can't say any here 238 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:41,440 it's already done, but you can't say a word. So 239 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,080 that's what that's what that's what happened to us, which 240 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:46,320 it was really exciting to live. 241 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 3: Now with that said, when well, kudos kudos to you 242 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,679 for because we've talked multiple times in that you know, 243 00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:56,840 this is the third time you're on We talked while 244 00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:59,399 you were going through that and that never came up. 245 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,919 Speaker 1: So congratulates. 246 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,919 Speaker 2: Well, yes, I mean, you know, in our in our industry, 247 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,240 it's such a small industry that that discretion is always 248 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,080 always pays off with all clients whatever. So the gymnastics, 249 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,360 we've already had it. But sometimes we have projects that 250 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,039 we can't talk about. Sometimes we have projects that the 251 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,759 client doesn't want us to talk about because it's private, 252 00:14:23,879 --> 00:14:26,559 or it's or it's in there, you know, private estate, 253 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:29,679 whatever it is. So and sometimes you have ones that 254 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,559 they're like, let's do it, let's go all over the internet, 255 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,879 let's let's shout about it. So so that's always exciting 256 00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:39,120 and uh uh the other the other, the other cool 257 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:43,679 story behind this Fred is that when when Uh, the 258 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:45,000 three designers, we were all. 259 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: In the vacuum. 260 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:48,919 Speaker 2: We couldn't talk to each other, we couldn't exchange notes, 261 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,279 we couldn't do anything. So everybody, the three of us 262 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,480 were just in our own in our own design studio, 263 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,159 designing a way with the you know, going back to 264 00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:05,320 to t M R W to tomorrow and uh and 265 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,759 and going doing the back and forth. But we never 266 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:11,000 knew what the other one was doing. So it was 267 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,480 only until they brought us together and we all reviewed 268 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:16,919 our designs that we were like, oh, I love that. 269 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: All that is a great one. That is a great addition. 270 00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: I love that and and uh, oh you're crazy or 271 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,519 whatever whatever remarks came there. It was it was a 272 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:30,919 fun process to be with with Bo and Uh and 273 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:35,759 Chad Uh in that same room, uh, you know, chatting 274 00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:39,559 away with our design intent and everything and our experience. 275 00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:43,440 That was a really really emotional uh day for me, 276 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:47,399 and that was what probably like six months ago, so 277 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,480 and and get and then getting ready for you know 278 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,799 Q three, Q four of last year to launching Q 279 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:57,440 one of this year. So uh so it's it's it's 280 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,279 been a beautiful roller coaster of emotions as I like 281 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,600 to as I like to describe my designs. 282 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 3: Wow, wow, we're there after you guys, So you didn't 283 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,759 have any opportunity to talk to them. 284 00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:12,279 Speaker 2: You knew who was involved, Yes, yeah, we knew who 285 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,399 was in B and we saw you know, you know 286 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,639 you we have golf shows or we have some meetings 287 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,000 or or architect you know, American Society, golf course, architects meetings. 288 00:16:21,039 --> 00:16:23,440 We were like, we just you can only wink, and 289 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,759 we're not talking about this. 290 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: So it was just like I know, you know, but 291 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,120 nobody else here knows. 292 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,039 Speaker 1: We can't talk about you. 293 00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:36,879 Speaker 3: Meet me in the bathroom. 294 00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:43,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was it was a it was a fun, interesting, exciting, 295 00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:47,679 you know, it was pretty cool, amazing. 296 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: So after you guys finally got to sit down and 297 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,120 say make your presentation of what you you each had 298 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:56,679 three holes to create. 299 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: No, we each have ten holes to create. Ten holes, 300 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,840 so there's thirty in total. 301 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's thirty in total, and out of those thirty, 302 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,839 fifteen weekly holes are played in a different you know, 303 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:13,720 that's where you create, that's that's where production actually creates 304 00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:17,480 the whole the competition. 305 00:17:18,519 --> 00:17:18,839 Speaker 1: Course. 306 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: So you're not going to see the same holes every week, 307 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:24,440 but you will see you. 308 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,799 Speaker 2: Will see them, and that's the whole point, because we 309 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,039 want the players to get used to them. We want them, 310 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,599 the players, the audience and everything. If we put new 311 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,039 ones every week, you know, we would be on square 312 00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:37,839 one every. 313 00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: Week kind of like. But but if you know, if 314 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,000 you've already played you know. 315 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: The Spear, which I come to know that it's one 316 00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:47,720 of the fan favorites. If you come to play the Spear, 317 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,920 there's already highlights, there's already stats, is already this is 318 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:52,400 already that. 319 00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: So so they can get acquainted with. 320 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: That sky Cattie that we that they have right there 321 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,279 in front of them, or tapes from other from other competitions, 322 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:03,640 and they'll they'll know how to play it. And that's 323 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,519 part of what we want to achieve on on ONDJL 324 00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:11,319 is for the audience to get acquainted to them. Is 325 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,200 the players obviously, h that's the most important and uh, 326 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,119 and find ne strategies, challenge the strategies, think about different 327 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,119 angles of approach, et cetera. 328 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: So that's that's the whole idea is that you. 329 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 2: Will see uh, you know, sixty seventy five percent of 330 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,000 them that are that that you'll see every every week 331 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,160 or every other week. 332 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,519 Speaker 3: So that means there's seven holes that you designed that 333 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:41,960 will never be used or just are not being used 334 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,799 right No, they're. 335 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:43,519 Speaker 1: Not being used right now. 336 00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:45,839 Speaker 2: We still have some surprises that are coming that are 337 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,480 all the way that I can't talk about it, but 338 00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:53,240 we still have some surprising, uh, some surprises in. 339 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: We still have some surprises that are coming up. Hopefully 340 00:18:59,039 --> 00:18:59,920 everybody will enjoy. 341 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 2: There's uh, there's a few things exciting, uh that that 342 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,519 you'll see in design and uh and and you, I 343 00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:10,119 guess you just have to wait a few weeks, but 344 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,839 will Yeah, I think it's it's it's gonna be it's 345 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:15,279 gonna be pretty coquel. 346 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: So after the initial meeting with the three groups sitting 347 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,400 down together and showcasing what they've developed, were there was 348 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,920 there things that you were like, Oh, I like that, 349 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,079 I want to incorporate that into one of mine. Did 350 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,559 you kind of see things that they did that you 351 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,640 thought that works really well for. 352 00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:37,559 Speaker 2: This, not not not at the moment, because obviously at 353 00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:40,640 the moment you're just trying. There's so much information because 354 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,720 we're looking at at thirty different designs, So it was 355 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,240 just more of a listening to the explanation. 356 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: Of course, there was some oohs and o's kind of like, 357 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,119 oh man, that's gonna be cool. 358 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 2: You know, stay you know you have the shoots or 359 00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:59,880 you have the cliffhanger that are that are kind of 360 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,039 like you say, oh man, this is this is this 361 00:20:02,079 --> 00:20:04,119 is going to be good because at the end, the 362 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,640 brief was to design for the top players in the tour. 363 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,359 So so it's not like, you know, we're not we're 364 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,720 not addressing the three, four, five t markers. We're just 365 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,559 addressing the the big the big boys. Uh uh tea box, 366 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,480 look at that, I see so uh. 367 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,519 Speaker 3: When Aggie's referring to all of a sudden he went 368 00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:32,119 thumbs up on he was talking about it and fireworks 369 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,920 and fireworks were exploding behind him on the video. We 370 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,599 don't know where that came. 371 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: From or why that was is exactly what happened. 372 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,519 Speaker 2: We were looking at all of our designs it was 373 00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:47,160 fireworks all over. I think we all brought a great balance, 374 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,920 uh to t g L in regards of our of 375 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,240 our way of of strategizing or thinking, you know, I 376 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:58,319 mean just being in the same room with bow Welling 377 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,839 and and Chad Getz. 378 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,519 Speaker 1: That was you know, these are guys that I grew 379 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:05,319 that up, that. 380 00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:09,039 Speaker 2: I grew admiring on my on my uh in the 381 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,359 in in my career, you know, Nicholas Design, uh at 382 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,880 that at some you know in the beginning for Bo's 383 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,440 career with Tom Fasio Tiger Woods and now boat Welling Design. 384 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:22,440 I mean, he's you know, they're they're they're guys that 385 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:25,279 I that I that I've looked up to in my career. 386 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,119 And it was, uh, it was an you know, to 387 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,039 say the least, it was it was great to be 388 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,000 in that room together with them and and sharing some 389 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,000 ideas and uh as colleagues. 390 00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:38,079 Speaker 1: I think it was. It was fantastic. It was a 391 00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:41,759 great experience for it to be, to say the least. 392 00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: Can you walk us through what the original assignment was 393 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:54,200 and you know, it's like there were usually when you 394 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,279 scope out a piece of land to see how you're 395 00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,359 going to design a golf course around it. You've got 396 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:05,839 the earth there to tell you where you can or 397 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,480 cannot go. And here they're saying, design a hole that 398 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:13,799 is going to be on a screen, but they're hitting 399 00:22:13,839 --> 00:22:19,400 into it from thirty five yards away, right, So where 400 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:24,200 and no limitations on we want? We want actual par fives. 401 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,799 That is a three shot hole, which you don't see 402 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,079 very much on the PGA tour anymore. So you can 403 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,640 go seven hundred yards if you need to. So let's 404 00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:39,680 talk about the original presentation and what made you concerned 405 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,000 and what made you excited about where you were going 406 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:42,920 with those ideas. 407 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: Well, the I'll put it this, I'll try and put 408 00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:46,680 it put it this way, Fred. 409 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 2: When we're out there on a regular design and we're 410 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,799 walking a site, you know, a beautiful site or just 411 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:55,359 a site in general. You know you've probably heard of 412 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,759 the expression that we that we design on a blank canvas. 413 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,559 I don't like using that phrase on regular design, and 414 00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:05,079 I don't use it because it's never a blank canvas. 415 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,960 You're you're designing on nature, and nature is going to 416 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:11,720 dictate and and for us in our philosophy, nature is 417 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:13,200 the signature of our projects. 418 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: So the the the the. 419 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,519 Speaker 2: I don't use that that that expression and uh and 420 00:23:23,319 --> 00:23:25,880 uh and what happened with TJL is all of a sudden, 421 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,640 we do have a blank canvas and the and the 422 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:33,759 challenge is not only a blank canvas, you know, the 423 00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:37,400 design of the holes, the strategy, but also the surroundings. 424 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,160 Where is this located? So now we also have to 425 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:44,359 have to think about where is it located. Is it 426 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,079 in a mountain, is it in a desert, is it 427 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,480 on the links course, is it on you know, all 428 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:52,920 of these things we had to envision. So we're designing 429 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,440 the three sixty ambients of each hole, not only just 430 00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:01,680 the whole itself. So that was that was a nice challenge. 431 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,680 That was a nice way of putting and and I 432 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,000 think that that to for the first time in my career, 433 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,119 I was designing. 434 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: On a blank campus. And uh so that's that's the 435 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:14,480 beauty of it. 436 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: There was there was this you had to think about 437 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,119 everything that was surrounding the whole, but also how how 438 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:20,880 did it feel? 439 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:21,559 Speaker 1: You know? 440 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,519 Speaker 2: The temple is one of a perfect example that uh, 441 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,960 you know, we pinched too to architecture about about playing 442 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,519 with forms, and in this case we got we had 443 00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:34,000 we laid out a few geometric forms and tried to 444 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:37,279 try to work with that like like like vertical. I'm 445 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,880 a vertical architect by trade, so so I bring in 446 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,920 a lot of aspects from my vertical architecture days and 447 00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,359 experience into golf architecture. 448 00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: And one thing that I wanted to. 449 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: Do is, all right, let's play around with these geometric 450 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,839 forms and and come up with something exciting. And when 451 00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:56,240 we pinched those two triangles together, we were like, way, this 452 00:24:56,319 --> 00:25:02,640 is a very cool risk reward heroic hole simplified into 453 00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:07,759 two triangles pinched with a fifteen yard uh you know, 454 00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:12,799 uh with and and then it opens up and we 455 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,799 placed it at the at the tour average two eighty 456 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:17,440 six more or less. Of course, you can move the 457 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,240 teas a little here and there during competition or during 458 00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:23,079 the weeks, but the initial design is at two eighty 459 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,880 six from the from from the back tee and it's 460 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,279 and it's had great reviews. Temple and the spear, which 461 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:33,000 temple is the par four version, the spear is the 462 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:37,000 par five version, and uh, and that and that's how 463 00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,200 we how how we created those and then going back 464 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,559 to where is it going to be? The first design 465 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,440 was the temple and we're like, hey, you know, let's 466 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,079 let's do this in mess America. Messo America is, let's 467 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,000 situated in mess America. Next, mess America's is uh grabs 468 00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:59,839 everything uh from from the Aztecs all the way to 469 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,799 the Incas all the way down south uh In in 470 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,039 South America. So that spread of that of those ancient civilizations, 471 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:12,559 all of that is called messo America. Whether you do Incans, Aztecs, Mayans, 472 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,720 or make us to thank us and I can go 473 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:18,079 on all of that passing through et cetera. 474 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: So we we we we. 475 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 2: Just visualized it in uh In uh close to much 476 00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:25,799 being part of Machupitu per se. 477 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,759 Speaker 1: So so that was that was kind of cool. 478 00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: That we can that we can create with the as 479 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,039 a team with full swing the technology and imagine all 480 00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:36,400 of that. 481 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's that that was an awesome, an awesome. 482 00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:41,519 Speaker 2: Thing to do as well, Like we have the flex 483 00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:44,359 it's on top of a volcano and we can get 484 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,799 away with things like that. 485 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: And and that's where we bring the fantasy bit to it. Fred. 486 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,960 We didn't want to. I mean, the holes are designed, 487 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,279 I would like to think, and this is where we 488 00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,680 where we where we you know place the. 489 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,519 Speaker 2: Line is a yea, let's design something something fun, something crazy, 490 00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:05,400 something whatever you want to put all the variables you 491 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,240 want to put there. 492 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: Something unique. 493 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:11,279 Speaker 2: But that also you know that respecting the integrity of 494 00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:14,079 the game. So so that was that was that was, 495 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:14,759 that was where. 496 00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: We drew the line. 497 00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: And uh and but let's get you know, fantasious on 498 00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:24,359 all the on where it is. You know, let's let's play, 499 00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:28,200 let's play at ten thousand feet or or or whatever. 500 00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:31,079 Speaker 1: You know, let's let's situated in Matripachu. 501 00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: That's let's do this because we weren't we weren't going 502 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,559 to have the external factors anyway, so why don't we 503 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,880 have fun with the settings. 504 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,599 Speaker 3: It must have been really amazing for you to be 505 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,160 able to bring in your cultural heritage, right, yes, of that, Yeah, 506 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,319 we saw central and yeh, central in South America. Was 507 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,240 it something they asked you to do or did you 508 00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:00,720 come back going, oh no, this is we really want 509 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,039 to be able to to bring in Central and South 510 00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:07,119 America into design here because it's something that really you 511 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,759 don't get to recognize because golf is so European centric. 512 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,559 Speaker 1: Yes, no, no, no, we did it. 513 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: We did it with with all intention, full intention. 514 00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:22,039 Speaker 1: Get get a little bit during during our designs, you'll you'll. 515 00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: See bits and pieces there, like one of the first 516 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440 holes that we design, it's a it's an ode to 517 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,200 uh to the links. 518 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: Uh. We have one on the links. Let's say that 519 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,119 let's say it's. 520 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,519 Speaker 2: On the on the west, Uh, you know coast of Scotland. Yes, 521 00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:43,599 we have Troon and you have pres Fla. We have 522 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,519 all these uh in that belt. That's where that's where 523 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:51,039 Bonnie Link is situated. Per se and you'll see it. 524 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:53,440 It has it has the infinite, the infinite. 525 00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: Uh. 526 00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:57,319 Speaker 2: It's like a number eight and it's called Bonnie Link, 527 00:28:58,119 --> 00:29:01,759 which is beautiful link. Uh and in in in in 528 00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:08,640 Scottish per se and uh and uh Sterling which is 529 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,759 in the a little bit more like in the highlands 530 00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:13,720 of Scotland. Uh and and you'll see and you'll see 531 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,640 that that that that reference in in the in the 532 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,119 in the holes. So all of that, I mean that 533 00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:23,400 that was because you know, I did my master's degree 534 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,720 in golf course architecture in the University of Edinburgh. I've 535 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,839 I've I've been very lucky to uh to inherit two 536 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,000 Tartans in my lifetime. Which is obviously the ross Tartan 537 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,680 with with the American society most recently. 538 00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:41,519 Speaker 1: But when I graduated from from the UNI of Edinburgh. 539 00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:44,559 Speaker 2: Uh we also inherit. You also have have the right 540 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,880 per se to use that Tartan. So uh so those 541 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,400 are pretty cool traditions that I that I that I 542 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,680 you know, inherited as a h a student and and 543 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,279 living in Scotland and and being part of the European 544 00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:02,160 Institute of of course architects and all that part of 545 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,519 my career was represented in that. So if you if 546 00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,880 you grab my twenty six twenty seven year career, a 547 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,359 few of the holes will be representing different stages of 548 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,440 my of my career. 549 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:22,319 Speaker 3: Wow wow. And and I want to remind the listeners. 550 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:24,319 If you go to the TGL homepage and I think 551 00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:26,799 it's TGL dot com, you can look at. 552 00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:28,519 Speaker 1: Video j dot com. 553 00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: Sorry friend, TGL, oh please TGL goolf dot com. You'll 554 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,000 be able to see all the holes, and you'll be 555 00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:37,200 able to study them and you can review them on 556 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,640 your own speed and time and look into the architecture design, 557 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,079 look into what Aggie and his colleagues have pushed together 558 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,160 for TGL in designing these holes and. 559 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: There's a pretty cool explanation on all of them. 560 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: I think TGL did a wonderful job on on filming 561 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,160 us and going through the you know, with a with 562 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,279 a bird's eye view going through the the different elements. 563 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,240 I think for any for any for anybody that's into 564 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,759 golf architecture, or wants to be into golf architecture, or 565 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,039 is curious about golf architecture, I think that that is 566 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:13,039 a great. 567 00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: That is a great sight to visit. 568 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,799 Speaker 3: Tell me about your first impression when you walked into 569 00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:29,400 the Sofi arena to see what was going on. Now, 570 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,359 you know you've been looking at sketches, you've been looking 571 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,759 at computer screens the whole time and just conversations. Then 572 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,319 it was done, you walked in. I'm assuming you've been 573 00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:42,799 there to see it in person. Tell me what your 574 00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:43,839 first impressions were. 575 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,839 Speaker 2: Yes, I've been I've been lucky to be in the 576 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,599 first two out of three outings. 577 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: This is it is. It is a feeling. 578 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: I'll start from it back to the front Fred just 579 00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:58,720 as a feeling that I will never never feel again 580 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,920 in my lifetime. Uh, what do I mean by that? 581 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:06,880 The everything that goes that that has been that has gone. 582 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,680 You know, the work, the passion, the the the the everything, 583 00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:18,680 the uncertainty, the excitement, everything that goes into something never 584 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,200 steam done before. 585 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:23,519 Speaker 1: Uh uh uh uh. 586 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:29,559 Speaker 2: You know project in your life, expectations, et cetera. You 587 00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:33,839 you you can imagine everything, but but at the end 588 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,359 you can't until the lights come on, until the music 589 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,559 come on, until the DJ is on, until the m. 590 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: C is on. 591 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: That is an experience or that wasn't a lifetime experience 592 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,680 for me and what you know, and and for that 593 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:54,640 that feeling of of like I said, like I mentioned 594 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,839 these words, uh, I will never see I will never 595 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:00,720 feel it again because from now on we. 596 00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: Know what to expect. We will will to a certain extent, 597 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,400 we'll take it for granted. 598 00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: And now we know how technology and the the part 599 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:16,559 of the game, the mix, the hybrid version of golf 600 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,640 is going to work out and it's and it's only 601 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,480 going to get better. 602 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,039 Speaker 1: Technology is here to stay Fred. It is, it is, 603 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:26,160 it is, it is. 604 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: It gets better every day and you see it in 605 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,279 different platforms, different things. Just went to the golf show 606 00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:34,559 in the PGA in Orlando. It's crazy. I think what 607 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,720 took over was technology on all all across the board, 608 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,519 you know, you know, uh, hitting bays, radars, putters, the 609 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,440 visualization aids, whatever you want to call it. Everything was 610 00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:54,200 about or most was about technology. So technology is here 611 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,160 to stay and now it's only going to get better. 612 00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:02,920 So that feeling of jumping, taking that leap of faith 613 00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:08,079 taking risks. You know, it was a beautiful thing, you know, 614 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,519 designing golf course that never before seen golf holes ready 615 00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:17,639 to be critiqued, ready to open up the heart, the passion, 616 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,320 the soul of what went, what bent went behind the 617 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,360 curtain to achieve those Uh, that is that is a 618 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,679 beautiful thing to do. And then and then you receive 619 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:34,639 fantastic and then you receive non fantastic comments. 620 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,079 Speaker 1: And that's the beauty of it. 621 00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:40,119 Speaker 2: The beauty is that risk taking, that that that that 622 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,000 passion that we feel for golf design, taking it a 623 00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:47,280 few notches to the next level. In regards to the brief, 624 00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:51,880 it's a it's let's have fun. Let's have fun challenging 625 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,480 the top players in the world. And that is that 626 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,199 is what we what we what we are hoping to do, 627 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,960 what we have all of us and TGL It's been fun. 628 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,519 It's been it's been entertaining. And that's the bottom line. 629 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,079 Uh you know this isn't made for TV. Uh, it's 630 00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:14,199 the project and competition print. So let's not lose size 631 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,400 side side, you know, side of that. And going back 632 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,760 to your comment, Uh you we've all heard of bucket lists. 633 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,119 Speaker 1: Bucket list on. 634 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: A TGL live experience, it is a great thing. There's 635 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:36,880 only fifteen hundred people in there. You're you're seeing Tiger Rory, 636 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:40,800 you know, your or your chofflet whoever, you whoever you 637 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,440 you you like, they're there, you know, thirty feet in 638 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,239 front of you, and you have unlike anything else that 639 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,559 we have seen in golf. 640 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: You know, we always have the worst as golf fans. 641 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,800 We always have it the worst. You either have to 642 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,760 walk and follow your your your all, your your. 643 00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 2: Favorite golfer for six hours, or you have to wait 644 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,079 to see all of them. You have to wait for 645 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,760 eight or ten hours on one on one spot that 646 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:16,119 you saved arriving there at six am. Uh So so 647 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,840 it's uh you Now, obviously I'm talking about general public. 648 00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:21,519 Obviously there's some hospitality and stuff like that, but at 649 00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,480 the end, you're you, we have it the worst here. 650 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,679 It's like like like a stadium. You arrive, you have 651 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,280 your seat, you can get your popcorn, you can get 652 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,000 your soda, you can get whatever you want, and and 653 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,400 and your seat will be there, and you're just enjoying everything. 654 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: And uh and and and it's great. 655 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: It's it's just a beautiful experience to see that. You know, 656 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:48,960 that huge screen. I think it's five story screen. 657 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 3: Twenty four times this size normal. 658 00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's crazy good. It's a beautiful experience. Uh, 659 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,360 you're in Palm Beach. Uh, you know, so you're gonna 660 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,480 you know, you're gonna have a great dinner or great 661 00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,840 lunch or great golf. If you mix and match things, 662 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,639 it will be a very good experience for anybody that 663 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,880 travels for a two day experience, two to three day experience, 664 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,320 and that you'll have that entertainment factor and play beautiful 665 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:22,400 golf in Palm Beach. 666 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 3: Who would have ever thought that there were actually golf 667 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,960 holes golf course in the Land of Oz. And you 668 00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:39,679 don't look behind the curtain because the wizard is doing 669 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,320 his work. 670 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: Oh man, I love that analogy. I'm a big reason 671 00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:48,480 of Boss fan, so it's perfect. So I love it. 672 00:37:48,519 --> 00:37:52,800 I absolutely love it. Yes, that is really was a feeling. 673 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,559 Speaker 2: That is a feeling and uh we tried to follow 674 00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:57,639 the yellow brick road and uh. 675 00:37:57,639 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: And and we'll see yeah you know. 676 00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:04,039 Speaker 2: Well well, uh it's it's funny because that you mentioned that, 677 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:09,000 because it is it is a an experience to to 678 00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:12,599 start drawing and visualizing h. 679 00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:19,559 Speaker 1: Throughout the design process. Uh and and try to achieve something, something, 680 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,800 something that calls the attention, something that's good, something that's 681 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:23,440 out there. You know. 682 00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:27,159 Speaker 2: As as an architect, I go back and one of 683 00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:31,559 my great inspirations has been you know, Gaudi or or 684 00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:36,360 even you know, while uh with a bau House movement. Uh, 685 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,280 those those are those are those are movements that that 686 00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:41,960 really really get under my skin. 687 00:38:42,039 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: And uh and uh you you never know what this is, 688 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,000 where where where our career is going to take us. 689 00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:50,599 Speaker 2: But uh but but that's where the end, that's where 690 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,440 most of the inspiration comes from. 691 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,760 Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing. And here's a big difference. I just realized 692 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,719 as you were saying it. When you get a project, 693 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,159 when you get hired to design a golf course, they're 694 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,679 the owner, whoever the developer is on this, they're telling 695 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,920 you we want you to create a resort course. Or 696 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,920 a course that we'd love to get on the tour someday. 697 00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:19,320 But please keep in mind that we still have to 698 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,800 sell rounds. We still need to try to achieve fifty 699 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,360 thousand rounds a year, right Well, tgl is saying, design 700 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,639 a course for the top twelve, fifteen, sixteen players in 701 00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:32,559 the world, and that's it. 702 00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 2: But that's that's Those are the best projects, Fred, and 703 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,239 you hit it run in the nail. The best projects 704 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,360 are the projects that are defined, define me a project, 705 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,920 give me the brief, or let's let's let's come up 706 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,880 with the perfect brief. Those are the best projects out there, 707 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,880 you see it. I mean TPC Sagress, that was Pete. 708 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,079 Speaker 1: Dy got the call and said, hey. 709 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 2: We want you to challenge the best players right here, 710 00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:04,119 give us the most difficult golf course. Well that and 711 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,400 that's how you know that this stadium design and that 712 00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:13,159 challenge came came, came, came to fruition we But the 713 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,400 brief was perfect, it was spawn on. It wasn't the 714 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,960 and and nothing. You know, the toughest ones are the 715 00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:23,960 when you go on on website. It's challenging for the 716 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,760 best players, yet amicable. 717 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: For the worst players. That's you can't have that. 718 00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 2: You can I mean one of one of one of 719 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,239 them is is not going to be true because it's 720 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,000 either the design that there's two ways to challenge a 721 00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:42,039 player obviously with the design, but. 722 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:43,519 Speaker 1: And then the setup. 723 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 2: So so if you have tight lies around the greens, 724 00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:49,400 it's going to be a nightmare for the for the 725 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,119 high handicapper or vice versa. 726 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: So if they're running. 727 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 2: At twelve, it's going to be again, it's going to 728 00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:59,719 be a nightmare for the high handicaps, so you can't 729 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,159 Or if it's running an a because it's a resort 730 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,159 course and you're going to challenge the top players, it's 731 00:41:05,199 --> 00:41:07,239 not going to be fun for the top players, So 732 00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:09,960 you can't have it both ways. I know it's a 733 00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:13,039 marketing thing and I understand it, and I love Yeah, okay, 734 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:14,320 let's go there and. 735 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,639 Speaker 1: They're going to have fun anyway. 736 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 2: But the best golf courses always have the perfect the 737 00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:25,519 spot on objective and the brief. And that's why what 738 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,079 the first chat that we have with our clients is 739 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,360 why the why, why are we doing this why? 740 00:41:34,519 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: And then we come up with a brief. 741 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,519 Speaker 2: We've had projects, recent projects that we don't have back 742 00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:42,400 team because. 743 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: We're the client is not going to have any PGA 744 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,159 tours where let's concentrate on resort or let's concentrate on 745 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,199 this handicap or let's concentrate on this market. And the 746 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:02,119 result is ten times better. When you define the project, 747 00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:04,039 the project that you're doing. 748 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,639 Speaker 2: It is always the best the best avenue obviously, if 749 00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:09,840 you know what you're doing, If every if everybody's in 750 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,039 the in the correct in the in the correct wavelength, 751 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,239 and that is uh, that is something very important, and 752 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,400 and and and TGL was perfectly briefed, and I. 753 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 1: Love that. 754 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,159 Speaker 3: Amazing. I know you've got to run, and I would 755 00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:26,960 love to talk to you some more right now, but 756 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,440 we don't have the time because I want to talk 757 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,440 to you about this eco luxury wellness golf course in 758 00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:36,599 Costa Rica that you're working on. Yes, I want to 759 00:42:36,639 --> 00:42:39,199 talk about the pit. I want to talk about each 760 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,719 of the holes on tg L, but I also want 761 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,159 to get an update on butter Butterfly Golf, which I 762 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,320 just love the concept. But we don't have the time 763 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,519 to do that today. So that is just an open invitation, 764 00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:50,280 my friend for you. 765 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 2: Thank you well, let's do that and connecting tg L 766 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,880 that is all those things that you mentioned are our 767 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:03,920 unique concepts like the pit golf lounge, Butterfly golf, wellness golf. 768 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:05,559 Speaker 1: Uh. 769 00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:08,199 Speaker 2: Take a look at them on our website and uh 770 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,400 and and you'll see that is uh part or most 771 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,000 of the the the the reason why we got invited 772 00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:19,079 because we try, we look for thinking out of the box. 773 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,599 We look we like to challenge ourselves. We like you know, uh, 774 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,199 I like to say, I like to put it. You know, 775 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,800 we can we we can be as crazy or as 776 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,679 unique as as as we as we can. But if 777 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,719 we don't have the client, if we don't have the 778 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,360 crazy unique client that wants something special, then we just 779 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:45,039 become theorist. It's We've been very lucky too, and very fortunate, 780 00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:49,280 I should say to uh find out that the clients 781 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,559 that call us, they're looking for something unique, something different, 782 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,960 a cool concept, something that's out there. And uh and 783 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,000 and so uh that's that's our that's our our best 784 00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:05,360 st reward is are those those types of projects that 785 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,760 that really challenge us and and and and challenge a 786 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,760 little bit with all the respect to the game we 787 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,360 love and the integrity of golf. 788 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,559 Speaker 3: Well, congratulations again, it is quite a feather in your 789 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:24,400 cap to be one of the very few selected to 790 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,119 be able to do a project that hopefully will take 791 00:44:27,199 --> 00:44:30,440 legs and be part of golf for the twenty first century. 792 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,840 Really really happy to talk to you again and congratulations. 793 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,559 Speaker 1: Thank you Fred. It's great to be here and we'll 794 00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:36,880 be back. 795 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:42,079 Speaker 2: Let's talk, let's let's talk of some more concepts.