Speaker 1: Hi. This is Susan Euclaia from Nantis, Texas. I play
at the Links at lands In. This is Golf Smarter
number nine eighty five.
Speaker 2: When we're out there on a regular design and we're
walking a site or just a site in general, you've
probably heard of the expression that we design on a
blank canvas. I don't like using that phrase on regular design,
and I don't use it because it's never a blank canvas.
You're designing on nature. Nature is the signature of our projects.
I don't use that expression. And what happened with tjil is,
all of a sudden, we do have a blank campus
and the challenge is not only a blank canvas. You know,
the design of the holes, the strategy, but also the surroundings.
Speaker 1: Where is this located?
Speaker 2: So now we also have to have to think about
where is it located. Is it in a mountain, is
it a new desert, is it on the links course?
Is it on all of these things we had to envision.
So we're designing the three sixty of each hole, not
only just the whole itself.
Speaker 1: For the first.
Speaker 2: Time in my career, I was designing on a plank campus.
Speaker 3: A look behind the curtain of tgl's whole design process
with course architect Oggie Pieza.
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from
great golf minds to help you lower your score and
raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast, Oggy.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Fred.
Speaker 3: We're laughing because we've just spent the last half hour
trying to get this thing to work, to get the
recording to work and the phone and everything. But we've
done it. We're recording now and I'm so excited to
talk to you about TGL. And I hope that you
don't have these glitches going on with TV yes, because
it's much bigger because that's live. We're recorded, and you
don't need that kind of issue going on.
Speaker 1: Well, I can control this.
Speaker 2: I can't control tg OFF and so I think we
have this all under control, you know, but.
Speaker 3: It doesn't work. We can either blame ESPN or Mercury
and retrograde.
Speaker 2: This is great, So yeah, exactly, So, Yeah, I'm a
fantastic It's it's great to talk to you always, Fred,
you know the uh I like I've always liked the
angle of your of your interviews. So so let's have fun.
Speaker 3: You, let's have some fun. Let's have some fun. I
am really fired up about TGL. I'm you know, I'm
begging my friends to watch it, and they're like, yeah,
I haven't seen it. And you know a couple of
people that that is like, okay, I'll go watch it now.
I'll get a text from fifteen minutes later like Okay.
Speaker 1: This is fun.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, and and it's only going to catch
on a little by little chunks by chunks. You never
know it. It has all the entertainment value you want.
I mean, I'm enjoying it very much. I absolutely love it.
Of course I'm biased, but the same experience that you
are having I'm having with my friends and people that
text me are like, give it a shot. You know
it's on Mondays or Tuesdays now Mondays. Just enjoy good
good a good fun, a great show, fantastic production, great
whole designs. If I may say, and I'm speaking for
the three of us, I'm speaking for bow Welling, Nicholas
Design and ourselves, I think it's we brought in a
very cool and exciting balance to the overall fifteen Holes
experience and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying every every bit of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as we're recording this, tonight is the fourth
week of TGL where it's this has been building up
to Tiger versus Rory, their two teams. What is it
Boston versus Florida? Is that what's happening?
Speaker 1: Jupiter? Jupiter against Boston. And I think I think they've
done a fantastic job Fred of how you know, there's
there's so many masterminds behind the production. I really loved how.
Speaker 2: They brought, you know, the uh, the story, the storytelling
together and how it build up from week one to
week two when we had when we had Tiger and
then and then week three we had another very very
nice clash. The Yes, you can argue the games have
been have been a little bit lopsided, but that's that's sports.
Speaker 1: That's part, that's part of that's the that explains that
it is that it is a competition, it is a.
Speaker 2: Sport, it is there is something exactly are cool things
happening out there? If everything every game was closed, if
everything well, hopefully we wanted to get to that. But
but you know, everybody needs to adapt to this. Everybody
needs to to uh to uh. Everybody needs everybody needs
to adapt. Everybody needs to uh to start, you know,
and and uh and and now building it up like
you well mentioned to to uh Tiger against Tiger's team
against Rory's team.
Speaker 1: I can't not wait. And the beautiful part is that
the first hole is one of ours.
Speaker 2: It's the flex uh with the lava that you've probably seen,
and we're very very excited for that, uh for that
first hole.
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to go into detail about each of
the holes uh and everything else, but it seems like
what everyone's talking about so far is uh. The first
week the Tigers team was playing and Kissner hit out
of the bunker and almost killed somebody, uh smashed into
the flag. It just brought out the humanity in Tiger,
which we've always witnessed, the competitive Tiger, you know, serious driven,
gonna win this time, gonna win this time. But he's
laughing and he's you know, like doubling over over in laughter,
and everyone's like that was awesome to see Tiger as
a human being.
Speaker 1: That is that is that is what we get at
t J.
Speaker 2: I think that that humane side that uh, you know
a little bit of the fun factor. Uh, that's what
we're looking for. Obviously competitive, obviously everything that we want,
you know, the the everything we're looking for.
Speaker 1: That we're just we're just greedy. We're looking for everything.
Speaker 2: We're looking for everything on TJ and including fun entertainment.
Speaker 1: So so you know, that's that's uh, that's that's what
it that's that's what we're enjoying right now.
Speaker 2: And that and that shot from Kisser. You know it
wasn't planned, of course, not, of course not, but yeah,
it's uh, I'm just lad it hit the flag.
Speaker 3: Post, and yeah, exactly exactly. And you know the potential
just watching a couple of weeks and you're seeing potential
that first of all, you got two hours of top
notch golfers, right and as opposed to like, you know,
this past week and they're complaining about how long the
rounds to Tory Pines and here you got two hours
controlled and the fact that you know, we all know
that Tiger's gonna have a difficult time walking seventy two
holes these days and be competitive, but in this environment
where he doesn't have to do a lot of walking,
he could just showcases his golf prowess as opposed to
his physical stamina. It just brings in the idea that
wait a minute, it doesn't just have to be PGA
tour players. We can get some of the champions players,
we can get some of the retired guys back in.
I'd love to see a team with men and women together.
Let's get the LPGA out there, right And Mac Baarnhart
and I were joking about and at some point I
want to see when somebody is teeing up the beverage
cart to pull up.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: You know, this is uh, you bring up so many
good points and and one and one that we that.
Speaker 1: That it was. You know that we all wish and
think is that we get we get tired for the
next fifteen years.
Speaker 2: You know, that's beautiful. Let's get him out there. I
mean because when you see that swing, it's a beautiful swing. Yes,
you know, it's just that it's.
Speaker 1: Just a work of art in motion.
Speaker 2: So so yes, of course, I mean, hey, we all
know as golfers, I mean for you know, as at
that level of petition. You know, we're walking there were
they're walking a marathon every single week. That's what it
That's what it that what it's what it's almost equivalent
to you're you're walking hilly uphill, downhill competing.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Luckily you don't get to carry the bag, but your
caddy does. But it at the end you're with with
the practice rounds and the competitiveness. If you make the cut,
you are walking a marathon every single week in weekend.
So obviously that takes a toll on you. And that
is part of the beauty of competitive golf, and the
and the and and and the four days that you're
out there. It's uh, it's it's that, it is. It
is also it is also part of it. You know,
golf doesn't give you the physical condition, but it does
require it.
Speaker 1: So it is it is. It is something very very.
Speaker 2: Interesting you bring up and I think that, uh that
what happened? What what's what we're going to see out there? Yes,
of course, now now you can.
Speaker 1: You know, uh, we we can talk about maybe the champions,
you know, at that different level, celebrities, et cetera.
Speaker 2: It's only going to get better. Fred, I'll guarantee it's
only going to get better. It's it's it's a beautiful
thing that we're living right now with the with technology
and that and the game we.
Speaker 3: Love, right, right, I want to see Trevino out there.
I want to see John Day out there, right, and
bring in the mystery team. Mac was suggesting, bring in
the mystery team. Let's have a team with Brooks.
Speaker 2: Right, and now you want all the mascots too, come on.
Speaker 3: People playing mask?
Speaker 1: No? But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it is a
beautiful thing. Uh.
Speaker 2: And then one thing we have to also address up
to all. You know, I know there's a lot of purists.
I consider myself up a slash purists as well. Obviously,
it's it's it's not a competition against against that part
of golf.
Speaker 1: It's a fork.
Speaker 2: It's another avenue to enjoy the beautiful game of golf.
If you look at it that way, just you know,
it's just another avenue. And I think it's I think
it's a beautiful again. I repeat, it's a beautiful thing.
We are living now.
Speaker 3: One of the elements that I'm so excited to talk
to you about is and that I think is the
really cool side of what they've done with TGL is
to say, let's not play, you know, like a normal
simulator that most people have where they're going, hey, we're
gonna play Saint Andrews. Hey, we're gonna play pebble Beach, right,
they're saying, no, these are going to be holes that
no one's ever played before, because we don't want to
put any limitations on our architects, on our course designers.
And you were blessed to be one of three design
groups that were invited. Am I you did an audition
for this? You were invited? I'm assuming yes.
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know what went in the back
and in the in the back, but uh, but but
we we received the call and of course an interview
and then the uh then the int the official invitation
and thumbs up.
Speaker 1: Uh to process. Well, it was, uh, it was. It
was obviously imagine this is all this is two years ago,
with everything that happened, right, Yeah, so you have to
put in perspective.
Speaker 2: We were we were excited from you know, two years
ago to today, receiving that call, making the trip to Orlando, Florida,
interviewing with Scott and Andrew.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful interview, beautiful chat. It was. It was.
It was good.
Speaker 2: It was good all over that Luckily we got we
we were appointed to be the third the third team.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: That they were looking for and just imagine for for
a year and.
Speaker 1: A half we couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 2: So that's that's probably on a personal note, and for
our team, that's probably the uh, the the.
Speaker 1: A good story to tell because you're on embargo.
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of like when you're in those
in those shows of of uh, you know, Big Brother
or whatever they reality and you can't say any here
it's already done, but you can't say a word. So
that's what that's what that's what happened to us, which
it was really exciting to live.
Speaker 3: Now with that said, when well, kudos kudos to you
for because we've talked multiple times in that you know,
this is the third time you're on We talked while
you were going through that and that never came up.
Speaker 1: So congratulates.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I mean, you know, in our in our industry,
it's such a small industry that that discretion is always
always pays off with all clients whatever. So the gymnastics,
we've already had it. But sometimes we have projects that
we can't talk about. Sometimes we have projects that the
client doesn't want us to talk about because it's private,
or it's or it's in there, you know, private estate,
whatever it is. So and sometimes you have ones that
they're like, let's do it, let's go all over the internet,
let's let's shout about it. So so that's always exciting
and uh uh the other the other, the other cool
story behind this Fred is that when when Uh, the
three designers, we were all.
Speaker 1: In the vacuum.
Speaker 2: We couldn't talk to each other, we couldn't exchange notes,
we couldn't do anything. So everybody, the three of us
were just in our own in our own design studio,
designing a way with the you know, going back to
to t M R W to tomorrow and uh and
and going doing the back and forth. But we never
knew what the other one was doing. So it was
only until they brought us together and we all reviewed
our designs that we were like, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: All that is a great one. That is a great addition.
Speaker 2: I love that and and uh, oh you're crazy or
whatever whatever remarks came there. It was it was a
fun process to be with with Bo and Uh and
Chad Uh in that same room, uh, you know, chatting
away with our design intent and everything and our experience.
That was a really really emotional uh day for me,
and that was what probably like six months ago, so
and and get and then getting ready for you know
Q three, Q four of last year to launching Q
one of this year. So uh so it's it's it's
been a beautiful roller coaster of emotions as I like
to as I like to describe my designs.
Speaker 3: Wow, wow, we're there after you guys, So you didn't
have any opportunity to talk to them.
Speaker 2: You knew who was involved, Yes, yeah, we knew who
was in B and we saw you know, you know
you we have golf shows or we have some meetings
or or architect you know, American Society, golf course, architects meetings.
We were like, we just you can only wink, and
we're not talking about this.
Speaker 3: So it was just like I know, you know, but
nobody else here knows.
Speaker 1: We can't talk about you.
Speaker 3: Meet me in the bathroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was it was a it was a fun, interesting, exciting,
you know, it was pretty cool, amazing.
Speaker 3: So after you guys finally got to sit down and
say make your presentation of what you you each had
three holes to create.
Speaker 1: No, we each have ten holes to create. Ten holes,
so there's thirty in total.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's thirty in total, and out of those thirty,
fifteen weekly holes are played in a different you know,
that's where you create, that's that's where production actually creates
the whole the competition.
Speaker 1: Course.
Speaker 3: So you're not going to see the same holes every week,
but you will see you.
Speaker 2: Will see them, and that's the whole point, because we
want the players to get used to them. We want them,
the players, the audience and everything. If we put new
ones every week, you know, we would be on square
one every.
Speaker 1: Week kind of like. But but if you know, if
you've already played you know.
Speaker 2: The Spear, which I come to know that it's one
of the fan favorites. If you come to play the Spear,
there's already highlights, there's already stats, is already this is
already that.
Speaker 1: So so they can get acquainted with.
Speaker 2: That sky Cattie that we that they have right there
in front of them, or tapes from other from other competitions,
and they'll they'll know how to play it. And that's
part of what we want to achieve on on ONDJL
is for the audience to get acquainted to them. Is
the players obviously, h that's the most important and uh,
and find ne strategies, challenge the strategies, think about different
angles of approach, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the whole idea is that you.
Speaker 2: Will see uh, you know, sixty seventy five percent of
them that are that that you'll see every every week
or every other week.
Speaker 3: So that means there's seven holes that you designed that
will never be used or just are not being used
right No, they're.
Speaker 1: Not being used right now.
Speaker 2: We still have some surprises that are coming that are
all the way that I can't talk about it, but
we still have some surprising, uh, some surprises in.
Speaker 1: We still have some surprises that are coming up. Hopefully
everybody will enjoy.
Speaker 2: There's uh, there's a few things exciting, uh that that
you'll see in design and uh and and you, I
guess you just have to wait a few weeks, but
will Yeah, I think it's it's it's gonna be it's
gonna be pretty coquel.
Speaker 3: So after the initial meeting with the three groups sitting
down together and showcasing what they've developed, were there was
there things that you were like, Oh, I like that,
I want to incorporate that into one of mine. Did
you kind of see things that they did that you
thought that works really well for.
Speaker 2: This, not not not at the moment, because obviously at
the moment you're just trying. There's so much information because
we're looking at at thirty different designs, So it was
just more of a listening to the explanation.
Speaker 1: Of course, there was some oohs and o's kind of like,
oh man, that's gonna be cool.
Speaker 2: You know, stay you know you have the shoots or
you have the cliffhanger that are that are kind of
like you say, oh man, this is this is this
is going to be good because at the end, the
brief was to design for the top players in the tour.
So so it's not like, you know, we're not we're
not addressing the three, four, five t markers. We're just
addressing the the big the big boys. Uh uh tea box,
look at that, I see so uh.
Speaker 3: When Aggie's referring to all of a sudden he went
thumbs up on he was talking about it and fireworks
and fireworks were exploding behind him on the video. We
don't know where that came.
Speaker 1: From or why that was is exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: We were looking at all of our designs it was
fireworks all over. I think we all brought a great balance,
uh to t g L in regards of our of
our way of of strategizing or thinking, you know, I
mean just being in the same room with bow Welling
and and Chad Getz.
Speaker 1: That was you know, these are guys that I grew
that up, that.
Speaker 2: I grew admiring on my on my uh in the
in in my career, you know, Nicholas Design, uh at
that at some you know in the beginning for Bo's
career with Tom Fasio Tiger Woods and now boat Welling Design.
I mean, he's you know, they're they're they're guys that
I that I that I've looked up to in my career.
And it was, uh, it was an you know, to
say the least, it was it was great to be
in that room together with them and and sharing some
ideas and uh as colleagues.
Speaker 1: I think it was. It was fantastic. It was a
great experience for it to be, to say the least.
Speaker 3: Can you walk us through what the original assignment was
and you know, it's like there were usually when you
scope out a piece of land to see how you're
going to design a golf course around it. You've got
the earth there to tell you where you can or
cannot go. And here they're saying, design a hole that
is going to be on a screen, but they're hitting
into it from thirty five yards away, right, So where
and no limitations on we want? We want actual par fives.
That is a three shot hole, which you don't see
very much on the PGA tour anymore. So you can
go seven hundred yards if you need to. So let's
talk about the original presentation and what made you concerned
and what made you excited about where you were going
with those ideas.
Speaker 1: Well, the I'll put it this, I'll try and put
it put it this way, Fred.
Speaker 2: When we're out there on a regular design and we're
walking a site, you know, a beautiful site or just
a site in general. You know you've probably heard of
the expression that we that we design on a blank canvas.
I don't like using that phrase on regular design, and
I don't use it because it's never a blank canvas.
You're you're designing on nature, and nature is going to
dictate and and for us in our philosophy, nature is
the signature of our projects.
Speaker 1: So the the the the.
Speaker 2: I don't use that that that expression and uh and
uh and what happened with TJL is all of a sudden,
we do have a blank canvas and the and the
challenge is not only a blank canvas, you know, the
design of the holes, the strategy, but also the surroundings.
Where is this located? So now we also have to
have to think about where is it located. Is it
in a mountain, is it in a desert, is it
on the links course, is it on you know, all
of these things we had to envision. So we're designing
the three sixty ambients of each hole, not only just
the whole itself. So that was that was a nice challenge.
That was a nice way of putting and and I
think that that to for the first time in my career,
I was designing.
Speaker 1: On a blank campus. And uh so that's that's the
beauty of it.
Speaker 2: There was there was this you had to think about
everything that was surrounding the whole, but also how how
did it feel?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: The temple is one of a perfect example that uh,
you know, we pinched too to architecture about about playing
with forms, and in this case we got we had
we laid out a few geometric forms and tried to
try to work with that like like like vertical. I'm
a vertical architect by trade, so so I bring in
a lot of aspects from my vertical architecture days and
experience into golf architecture.
Speaker 1: And one thing that I wanted to.
Speaker 2: Do is, all right, let's play around with these geometric
forms and and come up with something exciting. And when
we pinched those two triangles together, we were like, way, this
is a very cool risk reward heroic hole simplified into
two triangles pinched with a fifteen yard uh you know,
uh with and and then it opens up and we
placed it at the at the tour average two eighty
six more or less. Of course, you can move the
teas a little here and there during competition or during
the weeks, but the initial design is at two eighty
six from the from from the back tee and it's
and it's had great reviews. Temple and the spear, which
temple is the par four version, the spear is the
par five version, and uh, and that and that's how
we how how we created those and then going back
to where is it going to be? The first design
was the temple and we're like, hey, you know, let's
let's do this in mess America. Messo America is, let's
situated in mess America. Next, mess America's is uh grabs
everything uh from from the Aztecs all the way to
the Incas all the way down south uh In in
South America. So that spread of that of those ancient civilizations,
all of that is called messo America. Whether you do Incans, Aztecs, Mayans,
or make us to thank us and I can go
on all of that passing through et cetera.
Speaker 1: So we we we we.
Speaker 2: Just visualized it in uh In uh close to much
being part of Machupitu per se.
Speaker 1: So so that was that was kind of cool.
Speaker 2: That we can that we can create with the as
a team with full swing the technology and imagine all
of that.
Speaker 1: And I think that's that that was an awesome, an awesome.
Speaker 2: Thing to do as well, Like we have the flex
it's on top of a volcano and we can get
away with things like that.
Speaker 1: And and that's where we bring the fantasy bit to it. Fred.
We didn't want to. I mean, the holes are designed,
I would like to think, and this is where we
where we where we you know place the.
Speaker 2: Line is a yea, let's design something something fun, something crazy,
something whatever you want to put all the variables you
want to put there.
Speaker 1: Something unique.
Speaker 2: But that also you know that respecting the integrity of
the game. So so that was that was that was,
that was where.
Speaker 1: We drew the line.
Speaker 2: And uh and but let's get you know, fantasious on
all the on where it is. You know, let's let's play,
let's play at ten thousand feet or or or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, let's let's situated in Matripachu.
Speaker 2: That's let's do this because we weren't we weren't going
to have the external factors anyway, so why don't we
have fun with the settings.
Speaker 3: It must have been really amazing for you to be
able to bring in your cultural heritage, right, yes, of that, Yeah,
we saw central and yeh, central in South America. Was
it something they asked you to do or did you
come back going, oh no, this is we really want
to be able to to bring in Central and South
America into design here because it's something that really you
don't get to recognize because golf is so European centric.
Speaker 1: Yes, no, no, no, we did it.
Speaker 2: We did it with with all intention, full intention.
Speaker 1: Get get a little bit during during our designs, you'll you'll.
Speaker 2: See bits and pieces there, like one of the first
holes that we design, it's a it's an ode to
uh to the links.
Speaker 1: Uh. We have one on the links. Let's say that
let's say it's.
Speaker 2: On the on the west, Uh, you know coast of Scotland. Yes,
we have Troon and you have pres Fla. We have
all these uh in that belt. That's where that's where
Bonnie Link is situated. Per se and you'll see it.
It has it has the infinite, the infinite.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: It's like a number eight and it's called Bonnie Link,
which is beautiful link. Uh and in in in in
Scottish per se and uh and uh Sterling which is
in the a little bit more like in the highlands
of Scotland. Uh and and you'll see and you'll see
that that that that reference in in the in the
in the holes. So all of that, I mean that
that was because you know, I did my master's degree
in golf course architecture in the University of Edinburgh. I've
I've I've been very lucky to uh to inherit two
Tartans in my lifetime. Which is obviously the ross Tartan
with with the American society most recently.
Speaker 1: But when I graduated from from the UNI of Edinburgh.
Speaker 2: Uh we also inherit. You also have have the right
per se to use that Tartan. So uh so those
are pretty cool traditions that I that I that I
you know, inherited as a h a student and and
living in Scotland and and being part of the European
Institute of of course architects and all that part of
my career was represented in that. So if you if
you grab my twenty six twenty seven year career, a
few of the holes will be representing different stages of
my of my career.
Speaker 3: Wow wow. And and I want to remind the listeners.
If you go to the TGL homepage and I think
it's TGL dot com, you can look at.
Speaker 1: Video j dot com.
Speaker 3: Sorry friend, TGL, oh please TGL goolf dot com. You'll
be able to see all the holes, and you'll be
able to study them and you can review them on
your own speed and time and look into the architecture design,
look into what Aggie and his colleagues have pushed together
for TGL in designing these holes and.
Speaker 1: There's a pretty cool explanation on all of them.
Speaker 2: I think TGL did a wonderful job on on filming
us and going through the you know, with a with
a bird's eye view going through the the different elements.
I think for any for any for anybody that's into
golf architecture, or wants to be into golf architecture, or
is curious about golf architecture, I think that that is
a great.
Speaker 1: That is a great sight to visit.
Speaker 3: Tell me about your first impression when you walked into
the Sofi arena to see what was going on. Now,
you know you've been looking at sketches, you've been looking
at computer screens the whole time and just conversations. Then
it was done, you walked in. I'm assuming you've been
there to see it in person. Tell me what your
first impressions were.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been I've been lucky to be in the
first two out of three outings.
Speaker 1: This is it is. It is a feeling.
Speaker 2: I'll start from it back to the front Fred just
as a feeling that I will never never feel again
in my lifetime. Uh, what do I mean by that?
The everything that goes that that has been that has gone.
You know, the work, the passion, the the the the everything,
the uncertainty, the excitement, everything that goes into something never
steam done before.
Speaker 1: Uh uh uh uh.
Speaker 2: You know project in your life, expectations, et cetera. You
you you can imagine everything, but but at the end
you can't until the lights come on, until the music
come on, until the DJ is on, until the m.
Speaker 1: C is on.
Speaker 2: That is an experience or that wasn't a lifetime experience
for me and what you know, and and for that
that feeling of of like I said, like I mentioned
these words, uh, I will never see I will never
feel it again because from now on we.
Speaker 1: Know what to expect. We will will to a certain extent,
we'll take it for granted.
Speaker 2: And now we know how technology and the the part
of the game, the mix, the hybrid version of golf
is going to work out and it's and it's only
going to get better.
Speaker 1: Technology is here to stay Fred. It is, it is,
it is, it is.
Speaker 2: It gets better every day and you see it in
different platforms, different things. Just went to the golf show
in the PGA in Orlando. It's crazy. I think what
took over was technology on all all across the board,
you know, you know, uh, hitting bays, radars, putters, the
visualization aids, whatever you want to call it. Everything was
about or most was about technology. So technology is here
to stay and now it's only going to get better.
So that feeling of jumping, taking that leap of faith
taking risks. You know, it was a beautiful thing, you know,
designing golf course that never before seen golf holes ready
to be critiqued, ready to open up the heart, the passion,
the soul of what went, what bent went behind the
curtain to achieve those Uh, that is that is a
beautiful thing to do. And then and then you receive
fantastic and then you receive non fantastic comments.
Speaker 1: And that's the beauty of it.
Speaker 2: The beauty is that risk taking, that that that that
passion that we feel for golf design, taking it a
few notches to the next level. In regards to the brief,
it's a it's let's have fun. Let's have fun challenging
the top players in the world. And that is that
is what we what we what we are hoping to do,
what we have all of us and TGL It's been fun.
It's been it's been entertaining. And that's the bottom line.
Uh you know this isn't made for TV. Uh, it's
the project and competition print. So let's not lose size
side side, you know, side of that. And going back
to your comment, Uh you we've all heard of bucket lists.
Speaker 1: Bucket list on.
Speaker 2: A TGL live experience, it is a great thing. There's
only fifteen hundred people in there. You're you're seeing Tiger Rory,
you know, your or your chofflet whoever, you whoever you
you you like, they're there, you know, thirty feet in
front of you, and you have unlike anything else that
we have seen in golf.
Speaker 1: You know, we always have the worst as golf fans.
We always have it the worst. You either have to
walk and follow your your your all, your your.
Speaker 2: Favorite golfer for six hours, or you have to wait
to see all of them. You have to wait for
eight or ten hours on one on one spot that
you saved arriving there at six am. Uh So so
it's uh you Now, obviously I'm talking about general public.
Obviously there's some hospitality and stuff like that, but at
the end, you're you, we have it the worst here.
It's like like like a stadium. You arrive, you have
your seat, you can get your popcorn, you can get
your soda, you can get whatever you want, and and
and your seat will be there, and you're just enjoying everything.
Speaker 1: And uh and and and it's great.
Speaker 2: It's it's just a beautiful experience to see that. You know,
that huge screen. I think it's five story screen.
Speaker 3: Twenty four times this size normal.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's crazy good. It's a beautiful experience. Uh,
you're in Palm Beach. Uh, you know, so you're gonna
you know, you're gonna have a great dinner or great
lunch or great golf. If you mix and match things,
it will be a very good experience for anybody that
travels for a two day experience, two to three day experience,
and that you'll have that entertainment factor and play beautiful
golf in Palm Beach.
Speaker 3: Who would have ever thought that there were actually golf
holes golf course in the Land of Oz. And you
don't look behind the curtain because the wizard is doing
his work.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I love that analogy. I'm a big reason
of Boss fan, so it's perfect. So I love it.
I absolutely love it. Yes, that is really was a feeling.
Speaker 2: That is a feeling and uh we tried to follow
the yellow brick road and uh.
Speaker 1: And and we'll see yeah you know.
Speaker 2: Well well, uh it's it's funny because that you mentioned that,
because it is it is a an experience to to
start drawing and visualizing h.
Speaker 1: Throughout the design process. Uh and and try to achieve something, something,
something that calls the attention, something that's good, something that's
out there. You know.
Speaker 2: As as an architect, I go back and one of
my great inspirations has been you know, Gaudi or or
even you know, while uh with a bau House movement. Uh,
those those are those are those are movements that that
really really get under my skin.
Speaker 1: And uh and uh you you never know what this is,
where where where our career is going to take us.
Speaker 2: But uh but but that's where the end, that's where
most of the inspiration comes from.
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing. And here's a big difference. I just realized
as you were saying it. When you get a project,
when you get hired to design a golf course, they're
the owner, whoever the developer is on this, they're telling
you we want you to create a resort course. Or
a course that we'd love to get on the tour someday.
But please keep in mind that we still have to
sell rounds. We still need to try to achieve fifty
thousand rounds a year, right Well, tgl is saying, design
a course for the top twelve, fifteen, sixteen players in
the world, and that's it.
Speaker 2: But that's that's Those are the best projects, Fred, and
you hit it run in the nail. The best projects
are the projects that are defined, define me a project,
give me the brief, or let's let's let's come up
with the perfect brief. Those are the best projects out there,
you see it. I mean TPC Sagress, that was Pete.
Speaker 1: Dy got the call and said, hey.
Speaker 2: We want you to challenge the best players right here,
give us the most difficult golf course. Well that and
that's how you know that this stadium design and that
challenge came came, came, came to fruition we But the
brief was perfect, it was spawn on. It wasn't the
and and nothing. You know, the toughest ones are the
when you go on on website. It's challenging for the
best players, yet amicable.
Speaker 1: For the worst players. That's you can't have that.
Speaker 2: You can I mean one of one of one of
them is is not going to be true because it's
either the design that there's two ways to challenge a
player obviously with the design, but.
Speaker 1: And then the setup.
Speaker 2: So so if you have tight lies around the greens,
it's going to be a nightmare for the for the
high handicapper or vice versa.
Speaker 1: So if they're running.
Speaker 2: At twelve, it's going to be again, it's going to
be a nightmare for the high handicaps, so you can't
Or if it's running an a because it's a resort
course and you're going to challenge the top players, it's
not going to be fun for the top players, So
you can't have it both ways. I know it's a
marketing thing and I understand it, and I love Yeah, okay,
let's go there and.
Speaker 1: They're going to have fun anyway.
Speaker 2: But the best golf courses always have the perfect the
spot on objective and the brief. And that's why what
the first chat that we have with our clients is
why the why, why are we doing this why?
Speaker 1: And then we come up with a brief.
Speaker 2: We've had projects, recent projects that we don't have back
team because.
Speaker 1: We're the client is not going to have any PGA
tours where let's concentrate on resort or let's concentrate on
this handicap or let's concentrate on this market. And the
result is ten times better. When you define the project,
the project that you're doing.
Speaker 2: It is always the best the best avenue obviously, if
you know what you're doing, If every if everybody's in
the in the correct in the in the correct wavelength,
and that is uh, that is something very important, and
and and and TGL was perfectly briefed, and I.
Speaker 1: Love that.
Speaker 3: Amazing. I know you've got to run, and I would
love to talk to you some more right now, but
we don't have the time because I want to talk
to you about this eco luxury wellness golf course in
Costa Rica that you're working on. Yes, I want to
talk about the pit. I want to talk about each
of the holes on tg L, but I also want
to get an update on butter Butterfly Golf, which I
just love the concept. But we don't have the time
to do that today. So that is just an open invitation,
my friend for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you well, let's do that and connecting tg L
that is all those things that you mentioned are our
unique concepts like the pit golf lounge, Butterfly golf, wellness golf.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Take a look at them on our website and uh
and and you'll see that is uh part or most
of the the the the reason why we got invited
because we try, we look for thinking out of the box.
We look we like to challenge ourselves. We like you know, uh,
I like to say, I like to put it. You know,
we can we we can be as crazy or as
unique as as as we as we can. But if
we don't have the client, if we don't have the
crazy unique client that wants something special, then we just
become theorist. It's We've been very lucky too, and very fortunate,
I should say to uh find out that the clients
that call us, they're looking for something unique, something different,
a cool concept, something that's out there. And uh and
and so uh that's that's our that's our our best
st reward is are those those types of projects that
that really challenge us and and and and challenge a
little bit with all the respect to the game we
love and the integrity of golf.
Speaker 3: Well, congratulations again, it is quite a feather in your
cap to be one of the very few selected to
be able to do a project that hopefully will take
legs and be part of golf for the twenty first century.
Really really happy to talk to you again and congratulations.
Speaker 1: Thank you Fred. It's great to be here and we'll
be back.
Speaker 2: Let's talk, let's let's talk of some more concepts.