Speaker 1: Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 3: And Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about keeping.
Speaker 1: It real, keeping it real.
Speaker 2: Let's let's take it back to the nineties on a
Speaker 2: throwback here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm all for it. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 3: I'm picturing the motivational speaker coming into the auditorium at
Speaker 3: the high school and flipping the chair around backwards to
Speaker 3: make it seem like they're, you know, gonna relate to us.
Speaker 1: You know exactly, They're gonna keep it real. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about keeping it real from the
Speaker 3: standpoint of personal brand because I had an interaction with
Speaker 3: someone recently who who came off differently than I know
Speaker 3: them to be. And it wasn't a big deal for
Speaker 3: me because I've interact with this personal lot and it
Speaker 3: just was a little out of character for them. But
Speaker 3: there were two other people with me in that room
Speaker 3: who didn't interact with this person very often, maybe not
Speaker 3: ever before for one of them, and then one maybe
Speaker 3: have been several months or a year since the last
Speaker 3: time they interacted with them. And I found myself thinking
Speaker 3: that's interesting that that they would do this, they would
Speaker 3: they would kind of react to something in this way.
Speaker 3: It just seemed it seemed a little kind of off
Speaker 3: the cuff and more of an emotional reaction than than
Speaker 3: it should have been. And I said something to them
Speaker 3: after the fact, but after the other two people had
Speaker 3: left the room around this idea of how important it
Speaker 3: is that people see you in the way that you
Speaker 3: want them to see you. And and and I don't
Speaker 3: want to confuse this with being inauthentic. I want to
Speaker 3: make sure this is in the in the context of
Speaker 3: being authentic, but then understanding that no matter who you are,
Speaker 3: you have days where you are you're you're out of
Speaker 3: character a little bit like where either you're something's bothering
Speaker 3: you or on your mind, or you having a bad
Speaker 3: day anyway, or whatever whatever it is, reactions to things
Speaker 3: are different than they would be ninety nine out of
Speaker 3: one hundred other times. But what that can do to
Speaker 3: people who happen to just be around you for that
Speaker 3: one time can be really detrimental in terms of your
Speaker 3: ability to lead people and form relationships with people. And
Speaker 3: so I want to talk about this a little bit
Speaker 3: because I think there's a lot of people out there
Speaker 3: who think that, oh, you know, I'm on ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent of the time. I'm on nine hundred ninety nine
Speaker 3: point nine percent of the time. What's up with the
Speaker 3: every once in a while.
Speaker 1: Kind of thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, it depends on who's around, right, and
Speaker 3: it can be a big deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think especially the context of leadership, you know,
Speaker 2: the reality is like, and we talk about it all
Speaker 2: the time, it's like you're you know, you're always on stage,
Speaker 2: you know, and again, just because you're on stage doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that you have to not be yourself or act
Speaker 2: like a different person. It does mean though, that people
Speaker 2: are always watching. There's you know, there's conversations you're gonna have,
Speaker 2: there's comments that you're gonna make, there's things that you're
Speaker 2: going to do unintentionally many times because of the role
Speaker 2: that you have and the responsibility that you have and
Speaker 2: in many instances like the authority that you have, and
Speaker 2: that's really important part of that work. I think as
Speaker 2: you're talking about it though, like in a personal branding standpoint,
Speaker 2: there's also a really big important thing around consistency and
Speaker 2: you know, making sure that you are showing up in
Speaker 2: the way that you know you not only want to
Speaker 2: for the role or the responsibility of the job, but
Speaker 2: so that people can get know who you are actually right,
Speaker 2: and and and being authentic I think is important. But
Speaker 2: you know, I think showcasing and and and making sure
Speaker 2: especially with audiences like you pointed out, like the two
Speaker 2: other people, when when you're around people that you're meeting
Speaker 2: for the first time or that you don't get a
Speaker 2: whole lot of time with there are, that's a really
Speaker 2: important thing to make sure that you're intentional with who
Speaker 2: you are and with and with what you're talking about,
Speaker 2: the energy that you bring, the things that you're discussing,
Speaker 2: you know, all these things really really matter because that's
Speaker 2: a limitted amount of time that that individual or those
Speaker 2: those people might have with you, and that's the things
Speaker 2: they are going to take away, right, And so I
Speaker 2: think that it's it's it's a really important thing to
Speaker 2: always consider because again, you could walk in and maybe
Speaker 2: be slightly out of character. If if I know that
Speaker 2: you're slightly out of character to your point, I'll just
Speaker 2: kind of like yeah, like you know, I'll just kind
Speaker 2: of like write it off. But if that's the only
Speaker 2: is if somebody else's first time meeting you, or those
Speaker 2: small elements of time with you, that's who you are
Speaker 2: to them, yep, and that could that can cause you know,
Speaker 2: that can cause some some some potential harm or conflict
Speaker 2: in the future if they are operating under the belief
Speaker 2: that that's who you are or how you lead in
Speaker 2: those types of moments.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I think where leaders get tripped up on this is
Speaker 3: it's less about the people who they're around constantly. Like
Speaker 3: you think about the ten people you interact with most
Speaker 3: in your in your day to day and and you
Speaker 3: and these are people you see at least five times
Speaker 3: or more a week interacting with them.
Speaker 1: It's not those people.
Speaker 3: And actually I don't think it's people that they that
Speaker 3: you meet for the first time. I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people are very cognizant about putting out the kind
Speaker 3: of the ara they want to put out to the
Speaker 3: world when meeting somebody for the first time. I think
Speaker 3: the danger zone here is in people that leaders interact
Speaker 3: with very infrequently but often enough. Where in there in
Speaker 3: the leader's.
Speaker 1: Own mind, it's it's often right.
Speaker 3: So if you interact with a person you know once
Speaker 3: or twice a month, then you know the what that
Speaker 3: person believes of who you are is just kind of
Speaker 3: the aggregate of maybe the last ten or twelve interactions
Speaker 3: that they've had with you. And if you happen to have,
Speaker 3: you know, two of those, let's say two out of
Speaker 3: the last four are not the brand that you want
Speaker 3: to put out In your mind, You're thinking, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I interact with this person all the time, but do
Speaker 3: you like, do you really interact with this person all
Speaker 3: the time? And when I say interact, I don't mean
Speaker 3: standing in front of a group of people they happen
Speaker 3: to be in.
Speaker 1: I don't mean, you know, sending an email to them.
Speaker 3: I'm mean a one on one interaction that that exits
Speaker 3: the context of getting a specific agenda item done on work. Right,
Speaker 3: So if you're if you're talking about a specific thing
Speaker 3: for work, then that doesn't count.
Speaker 1: This is the the outside of that.
Speaker 3: How how do you interact with people when you're talking
Speaker 3: about what's important to them, or or career development conversations
Speaker 3: or or accountability conversations, all of those things are what
Speaker 3: lead a person to have to create what they believe
Speaker 3: your brand is. And the people who you interact with
Speaker 3: very infrequently but still kind of a few times here
Speaker 3: and there, those are the people I think this is
Speaker 3: this is most likely to happen with, and where leaders
Speaker 3: kind of get tripped up.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I had an.
Speaker 3: Interaction with a leader very recently that I thought was
Speaker 3: I thought was really well done. This person was scheduled
Speaker 3: to run a meeting that I was to be a
Speaker 3: part of along with you know a few other PEOP people,
Speaker 3: and they came up to me and said, I'm going
Speaker 3: to have to cancel the meeting today.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, what happened? What's wrong?
Speaker 3: And they said, you know, I'm just not I'm not
Speaker 3: feeling myself right now, Like I'm not feeling like I
Speaker 3: could be the person that I need to be in
Speaker 3: this room having these conversations right now, and I'm worried
Speaker 3: that I will come off the wrong way or that
Speaker 3: I won't be listening correctly. I won't be I won't
Speaker 3: be in the proper headspace to do what needs to
Speaker 3: be done with the information in this meeting.
Speaker 1: So I want to push it by a few days.
Speaker 3: And I was like wow, like okay, Like just from
Speaker 3: a standpoint of humility, vulnerability and kind of accepting of
Speaker 3: the situation, I think about the other ways that could
Speaker 3: have gone right, So that person thinks it's my job
Speaker 3: as a leader to be on my game all the time.
Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to have a time when I'm not
Speaker 3: on stage.
Speaker 1: And and so I'm.
Speaker 3: Going to go into this and then that, and then
Speaker 3: people in the room who interact with this person maybe
Speaker 3: once or twice a month, if that, they get the
Speaker 3: wrong impression about them because they weren't in the right
Speaker 3: head they weren't in the right head space. They didn't
Speaker 3: bring the you know, the proper brand to that to
Speaker 3: that meeting room. And I think it ties right back
Speaker 3: into to what you're saying when it comes to being
Speaker 3: on stage. So I think you're right, you're always on stage.
Speaker 3: But I think that you have the ability to exit
Speaker 3: the stage as a leader if you want to. You
Speaker 3: just have to be honest and transparent and vulnerable about
Speaker 3: the reasons why, and you will be given a lot
Speaker 3: of grace by people. The failure of leaders come from
Speaker 3: thinking that either a they're not allowed to leave the stage,
Speaker 3: or that be they're allowed to be not they're allowed
Speaker 3: to be not judged by something they do while they
Speaker 3: are on stage because it's oh, it's just one time
Speaker 3: out of out of out of many.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a good call out because I
Speaker 2: think to your point, like being a leader and signing
Speaker 2: up for that and being on stage doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you always, like to your point, I always have to
Speaker 2: be performing. And I actually think it's a great call
Speaker 2: because when when I think you've got it down best
Speaker 2: is when you've been able to kind of show the
Speaker 2: audience that you are the same person on and off stage.
Speaker 2: But when you are on stage, there's a responsibility that
Speaker 2: you have, and that is to in in you know,
Speaker 2: in the acting world, that's to act and put on
Speaker 2: a performance. In the leadership world, that is to make
Speaker 2: sure that your teams are are learning and growing and
Speaker 2: achieving goals every single day. So it's kind of like
Speaker 2: I'm the same person on stage or off stage, but
Speaker 2: I do understand that there's a responsibility when I'm on stage, yeah,
Speaker 2: and and that that responsibility can also, like you know,
Speaker 2: it can it can also pour over into when you're
Speaker 2: not you know, in in the leadership roles, I think
Speaker 2: about having having interactions with people like at work in
Speaker 2: meetings kind of in social working environments, versus those same
Speaker 2: people at maybe like an off site event where it's
Speaker 2: like it's a meeting, it's a holiday meeting. It's fun,
Speaker 2: there's things that are going on. Like it's the same
Speaker 2: people and these are people that you work with, but
Speaker 2: there is a different element where you can be off
Speaker 2: stage a little bit more because of the environment around
Speaker 2: you and and and kind of what that comes with,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I just think of like,
Speaker 2: am I a different person there? No, am I much
Speaker 2: more relaxed to have like more I don't know, like
Speaker 2: informal conversations, but like the intent of the time together
Speaker 2: is to connect in a more social way. So I
Speaker 2: could be more social social and no spaces, but at
Speaker 2: the same time, like I'm well aware that like I'm
Speaker 2: there and if I'm the boss or I'm in charge,
Speaker 2: like I still have to play a role in that
Speaker 2: space true a degree, it just may be very different.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, just kind of talking it out loud,
Speaker 2: I think that I think that the closer you can
Speaker 2: get to being who you are both on and off
Speaker 2: stage with your people, that it's going to require time
Speaker 2: and effort, but I think it allows there to be
Speaker 2: a more authentic and real relationship that you can have
Speaker 2: with everyone.
Speaker 3: I kind of like what you said there, because I
Speaker 3: think it kind of it kind of tied everything together
Speaker 3: in my own head here, it requires time on and
Speaker 3: off stage for people to get the right impression of
Speaker 3: you in terms of for people to believe that what
Speaker 3: they're seeing is accurate. So and when I say on
Speaker 3: and off stage, i'm talking about in the context of
Speaker 3: what you said, where you're kind of always on stage,
Speaker 3: but you might have different responsibilities, right, So, so as
Speaker 3: a leader, whether you're interacting around a bonfire at the beach,
Speaker 3: you know, on a on a you know, team kind
Speaker 3: of a get together holiday celebration because you know, and
Speaker 3: not work related at all, but but but put on
Speaker 3: by word, how you interact there versus how you interact
Speaker 3: in front of a group of people at work, it's
Speaker 3: going to be different because you have different responsibilities.
Speaker 1: But you are on stage for both.
Speaker 3: So they everybody's looking to you for how you're going
Speaker 3: to be acting, But what they're looking to do is
Speaker 3: validate or or throw out things they already believe about you.
Speaker 1: So they go into these.
Speaker 3: Interactions thinking what they know about Lorenzo. Oh, I think
Speaker 3: he's this and this and this. Let's watch him, let's
Speaker 3: see let's see if he's that still, because the interactions
Speaker 3: they get with you at work are probably far more
Speaker 3: often than the interactions they get with you not at work.
Speaker 3: But I think it takes both for a person to
Speaker 3: feel more confident in believing that who you say you
Speaker 3: are is actually who you are, and because because I
Speaker 3: think it's it's probably easier for a person to always
Speaker 3: kind of put on whatever mask they want to put
Speaker 3: on for work if that's all they ever interact with
Speaker 3: with a person is at work, it's a lot harder
Speaker 3: to keep that mask on over a period of multiple
Speaker 3: hours when when you aren't in the context of work,
Speaker 3: it becomes kind of very freeing and open. It's it's
Speaker 3: why you have the the movie and sitcom tropes of
Speaker 3: the people you know, you know, photo copying their bare
Speaker 3: butt in the photocopy machine at the holiday party. It's like, like, well,
Speaker 3: they would never do that when they were at work,
Speaker 3: but something happens at the holiday party where they think, oh,
Speaker 3: it's different. You know. It's like, yeah, it it is different.
Speaker 3: But that just means there's a different level of responsibility.
Speaker 3: And so I think as a leader, you need to
Speaker 3: be cognizant of that fact and I like that kind
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: Juxtaposition of it.
Speaker 3: So you are always on stage, but you have different responsibilities,
Speaker 3: and people need to see you with the different hats
Speaker 3: on of different responsibilities and be able to leave those
Speaker 3: interactions thinking, Okay, that's a different hat, but it's not
Speaker 3: a different mask. It's not a mask of who they are.
Speaker 3: It's just an acknowledgment that they're here to do different
Speaker 3: things depending on what the context of the situation is.
Speaker 2: Yep, I totally agree with that, and with that it
Speaker 2: brings us to this episode one minute hack. But first
Speaker 2: a few words from our sponsors.
Speaker 3: All right, for this episode's one minute hack, what I
Speaker 3: want you to do is realize that for a person
Speaker 3: to have a personal brand that people see them by,
Speaker 3: it's not enough to just act.
Speaker 1: In a certain way.
Speaker 3: You have to put that brand out to the world
Speaker 3: in ways that people who don't interact with you often
Speaker 3: can kind of absorb and take in and try to validate.
Speaker 3: And that starts with the words that you use. And
Speaker 3: so what I want you to do is think about
Speaker 3: three different words that you want to be seen as.
Speaker 3: Three different words that you would hope people would see
Speaker 3: you as that are very important to you that if
Speaker 3: you had to pick only three, and I want you
Speaker 3: to start using those words in the context of your
Speaker 3: conversations with people who you don't interact with very often.
Speaker 3: So if you want to be seen as trustworthy, then
Speaker 3: you just start saying that you can trust me.
Speaker 1: Hey, let's talk about something. I want you to know.
Speaker 1: You can trust me.
Speaker 3: You know, the things that you say to people and
Speaker 3: how you embody the brand that you want of yourself
Speaker 3: into words does matter because people will be looking to
Speaker 3: those words as kind of guide posts to see whether
Speaker 3: or not your actions align with them. And the more
Speaker 3: the actions align with them, the more of the brand
Speaker 3: you build with that person. But if you just give
Speaker 3: the actions and you haven't prefaced it with the words,
Speaker 3: it's a lot less likely they'll make those tie ins.
Speaker 3: It's a lot less likely that they will think that's
Speaker 3: who you are as a person, and a lot more
Speaker 3: likely they'll just think, oh, that's who you were at
Speaker 3: that moment.
Speaker 1: So they might think that they could.
Speaker 3: Trust you because they told you something and you didn't
Speaker 3: violate their trust, and that's fine, But if you haven't
Speaker 3: told them beforehand, I want you to see me as trustworthy.
Speaker 3: You can trust me. Then it doesn't hit as hard
Speaker 3: and it doesn't get tied to your personal brand as much.
Speaker 3: And so whatever you decide these words should be, start
Speaker 3: utilizing them in the context of your conversations with people,
Speaker 3: and then make sure that the actions that you do
Speaker 3: obviously follow up, because you can't just say it. You
Speaker 3: have to do it, or you will have the opposite
Speaker 3: effect of saying it to begin with. But put your
Speaker 3: brand out in words followed up by actions, and you'll
Speaker 3: find that the people who you interact with less frequently
Speaker 3: are a lot more likely to see you as those things,
Speaker 3: and those little interactions will have more of an impact
Speaker 3: in the long term.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's great women hack, and I love
Speaker 2: the idea of utilizing the language that you're wanting to
Speaker 2: build with the team because I think that as you
Speaker 2: were talking through it, I was thinking about, unintentionally, how
Speaker 2: maybe I've done that in my past because I want
Speaker 2: it to be something that's top of mind, and even
Speaker 2: more recently having some conversations with leaders about you know,
Speaker 2: if this is what you're solving for, if this is
Speaker 2: what you want to be as the leader, then you
Speaker 2: not only have to show it, but you have to
Speaker 2: talk about it know and not not. I didn't do
Speaker 2: it as maybe as polished as you kind of just
Speaker 2: described there, But it is such an important thing that
Speaker 2: putting it out to the world because it's also an
Speaker 2: element of like kind of social accountability that if you say, hey,
Speaker 2: I I you know, I want you to trust me,
Speaker 2: or I want to build trust. I want to be
Speaker 2: a leader that you can trust. Well, if you're not
Speaker 2: showing that in your behavior, or if you're doing things
Speaker 2: that may cause it, somebody can say, like, well, you're
Speaker 2: making it really hard for me to trust you because
Speaker 2: you're doing this. Like it creates a space where not
Speaker 2: only will people hear it and and think about that
Speaker 2: and say okay, I agree with that, Well, if they
Speaker 2: don't see you doing the behaviors, you'll probably also get
Speaker 2: challenged on them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's absolutely a great kind of a concise
Speaker 3: way of putting it because you know, the the people
Speaker 3: who don't interact with you as often, they they need
Speaker 3: every interaction you have with them needs to be something
Speaker 3: that moves the needle in your favor, because it will
Speaker 3: move the needle. Every interaction you have will either strengthen
Speaker 3: or weaken the way that person sees you and the
Speaker 3: way that person feels about you as a leader. Every
Speaker 3: one of them does, and the less frequently you interact
Speaker 3: with them, the more that needle moves, either positively or negatively,
Speaker 3: because that's all they have to go off of. You
Speaker 3: interact with somebody fifteen times a day, and you have
Speaker 3: one bad moment over the course of a month, it's
Speaker 3: not going to move that needle at all in the negative.
Speaker 3: But if that one bad moment you happen to have
Speaker 3: is in front of somebody else and that was the
Speaker 3: only interaction they had with you for the entire month,
Speaker 3: you might as well think you're starting below zero now.
Speaker 3: Like this is that's the only thing that person has
Speaker 3: to go off of, they might not ever reproach you again,
Speaker 3: meaning if that happens, you need to be self aware
Speaker 3: to know that it has happened and go directly to
Speaker 3: that person to fix the broken situation because they will
Speaker 3: likely not come to you with it unless they absolutely
Speaker 3: have to. And so personal brand is important. Kind of
Speaker 3: manifest to get in verbiage is important, and making sure
Speaker 3: that you understand that you are always on stage, even
Speaker 3: if you wear different hats and have different responsibilities. Very
Speaker 3: important when you're talking about how you want to be
Speaker 3: viewed as a person and as a leader.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and with that it resists at the end of
Speaker 2: this episode, this is hacking your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and
Speaker 2: I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.