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Speaker 1: All right, we've got a decent number of people on

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I think we're probably good to go ahead and start.

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Remember this is recorded to anyone who missed anything can

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always re listen and catch up with parts of it.

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Everyone else to go with it. I think we can

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go ahead and start. So, Hey, my name is Luke.

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I'm the president of the Nathaniel Green Society. We, of

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course are the North Carolina chapter of the Old Glory Club.

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We have this space every week to discuss a variety

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of topics and to chat with some very good guest

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and tonight we are thankful to have a new guest

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with us, but familiar to pretty much anyone who's involved

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in these sort of right wing circles, especially on Twitter.

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So any of the other officers can introduce themselves and

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then we'll let our guests introduce himself and we can

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kind of move into the topic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll go.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I'm Kevin or keV Bought, Secretary of NNGS.

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Speaker 2: Good to be chatting with you all tonight.

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Speaker 3: I am Appeal to Heaven and I am one of

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the five officers at Lodge in the Club for the NNGS.

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Speaker 4: Looking forward to it's a nice conversation.

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Speaker 1: Good evening everyone.

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Speaker 4: My name was pandam the vice president Daniel Green Society.

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Speaker 2: I'm behind the society account tonight.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for coming, and I'm chief Slack, the X Space enthusiast.

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Speaker 1: I think our fifth officer is not with us at

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the moment, and so I guess we can move on

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to our guest and then we'll let him introduce himself

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into topic.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Peaking Jana's host of the Peaking Yanas Show.

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I'm a member, charter member, and an officer in the

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Central Committee for the Whole Glory Club, one of the

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first ten people in there. And yeah, I guess the

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general men invited me on because they wanted to talk

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about dispensationalism. And I've done I've done a couple episodes

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on it, I've read some books on it, and I

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pretty much yeah. Yeah, twenty years ago dismissed it as

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just brainwashing junk theology. But you know, it does rear

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its ugly ahead, and I guess if it's going to

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be something that in influences are you know, the US

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foreign policy, it's something you're gonna have to revisit every

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once in a while. So yeah, that's where I'm at.

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Speaker 1: Well, we appreciate you coming on to talk with us. Yeah,

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dispensationialism is one of those things where it doesn't really

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make a lot of sense if you weren't raised around it,

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you're kind of surprised that anybody really adheres to it.

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But you know, it still is alive and well, although

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it does seem to be sort of aging out, most

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of its you know, hardcore adherents tend to be I

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would say, probably in their late fifties, sixties or older now.

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But you're right, it has historically impacted America's foreign policy.

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It still does to a degree, and it still holds

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sway in some of the lingering neo con influencers that

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are out there. And and if you're raised Baptist, even

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if you weren't taught it explicitly, it's a little bit

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still kind of in the air you breathe. Not as

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much as it used to be, but it's still somewhat present.

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So it's good to revisit it. We appreciate you coming

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on to kind of tackle that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem. I Yeah, I was raised Catholic, baptized

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as a baby, first communion, you know, Catholic schools. I

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went to a Jesuit school. This when I got to

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high school. When I graduated high school, I pretty much

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just stopped going to church. And it wasn't until I

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was around twenty eight or twenty nine that I started

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attending a Baptist church. And I didn't last very long

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in that one. But I went to another church which

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was more reform Baptists, like sixteen eighty nine Confession, and

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it just never it was never a topic of conversation

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until I decided, you know, I was going to I

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was going to take seminary classes, and it was brought up,

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and it was you know, it was just one of

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those things that I went to a Cresterian a PCA

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Presterian Church of America a seminary, and it was just

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one of those things that was brought up. It's like

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a joke, you know. It's like the things that we'd

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argue over or were like pedo baptism and you know, eschatology.

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So I started studying it and I started reading about it,

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and I was like, how can anyone read the Bible

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and get this out of this? It just doesn't make

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any sense. It's you're you're bringing some thing to the text.

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You you've made a conclusion. Now you're bringing it to

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the text and you're figuring out you're going cafeteria to

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the scripture to figure out how to make it work.

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And even so it doesn't work. I mean, I just don't.

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I'm sorry. I'm I'm a pattern noticer guy. If that

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was true, if there was any truth to it, I

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would have noticed the pattern. I would have noticed it explicitly.

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And it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I'm

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not saying that there isn't going to be like a

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physical rapture one day. You know, you can argue over

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when that is. But the whole thing about dispensations and

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then the whole thing, you know that especially the thing

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about modern day Israel having anything to do with what's

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in the sixty six books or seventy two books sorry

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of scripture. I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is very much something you kind of have

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to bring with you to the text, and it's and

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if you study asmisatialism, and I guess you've read more

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of the history of this, but it's always struck me

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as something that that's very obviously what happened. You know,

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there were some people who had some conclusions, maybe not

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entirely sure how they got there, but they really got

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in their mind, you know, certain aspects about the Jews

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and sort of their role in eschatology in the present day,

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and they just decided that was true. And then in

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order to make that, you know, that quote unquote fact reality,

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they just had to bend to the entire text to

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kind of match it.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and even if you want to, if you

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don't want to accuse anybody of doing it for certain purposes,

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which you know once you study and you know, if

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you know, you don't have to read it, but I

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mean you can peruse the schofield that was at Scofall

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the man in his book. I have the I have

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the PDF, and I've just you know, control left the

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whole book for for certain things. You realize that it

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was it was put out for a reason, and it's

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not a I don't think it's a a coincidence that

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this this teaching arose at the same time Zionism proto

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Zionism was rising in Russia in other places. So yeah,

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I mean, it just there's in order for you to

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believe it, you would basically have to say that I

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don't think that you can believe in dispensationalism and say,

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you know, scripture is inerrant, because you're you're either going

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to be ripping out, ignoring, ignoring whole you know, whole passages.

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You're going to be jettisoning two thousand year old, well

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at the time, eighteen hundred and fifty year old teachings.

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And you know, I mean, maybe that's what you know

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to do. I mean, five hundred years ago they decided

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to jettison fifteen hundred years of teaching. So you know,

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I mean, maybe maybe that's not it's not so surprising.

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Speaker 1: Well, at least in the Reformation you saw continuity. Even

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though you did end up seeing a big divide between

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the schools, the reformers still claim to have a continuity there.

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The environment that dismensationialism arose out of was not really

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attempting to do that though, So you know, so dismins

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stacialism came a little bit after the Second grade Awakening,

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But the second grade Awakening specifically was very much oriented

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towards restorationism. I mean, and there was some good that

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came out of it, actually, you know, like there were

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positive benefits. I think there were a lot of people

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who became, you know, genuine believers during that time, but

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there was no attempt like before, to show much in

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the way of continuity with the past. I think that's

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the reason why even though you did see revival, which

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I think was genuine in many cases, you also saw

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a lot of cults form at the same time. Yeah,

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it was sort of a cultural mood where people were

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very confused, either didn't know about the pastor didn't care

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about it. And it's not surprising that sort of in

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the aftermath of that, even though it may not have

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arisen exactly at the same time, is when you started

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to see the rise of dispensationalism, because you're right, there's

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really no record of the belief as far as we know.

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I would say before the mid you know, the mid

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eighteen hundreds, or say.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and I'm just being hyperbolic and you know, taking chabs,

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but yeah, I mean, this this comes out of nowhere,

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and you know, inevitably you'll have somebody who will pull

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up like one like theologian from I don't know, from

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maybe fifteen you know, from the early fifteen hundreds forward

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or even before then, and you know, all that is

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is the exception proving the rule. It's like one guy

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had an idea. It's not even close. It echoes something

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that Darby and and Schofield were teaching, and you know,

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you just have what they have to do is they

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have to basically torture somebody's words in order to present it.

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And yeah, I mean, it's not like the Reformation. I

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understand why the Reformation happened. I don't. You can't explain

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why this happened really, and when you, once you start

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studying this, you realize that it had to be something,

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something nefarious. And I'm not saying that there weren't any

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nefarious forces working in the background of the Reformation. Not

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there were. We don't need to get into that. That's

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another that's another space. But this is something that is

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obviously in your face. It's one of those things where

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you look at it and you're like, okay, I mean,

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this isn't even subtle. Yeah, and then you look at

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a certain group who is just not subtle with their

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propaganda and you're like, okay, I understand, I understand what happened.

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Speaker 1: Well, so I guess to keep the I guess to

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sort of provide some background for any who may not

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be familiar with it. Would you like to start with

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what you consider to be the historic roots to the

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You know, obviously it's kind of a new thing that

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came somewhey out of nowhere, But you know what, where

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do the beginnings of this teaching seem to be? Like

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how did it get popularized? Maybe so we can kind

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of explain how it became so big in the US

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in particular.

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Speaker 2: Kind of hard to pin it down, but there it

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seems to have come out of revival, out of the

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revival movement of the eighteen hundreds. There were some excited

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utterances by an Irish girl in I think the eighteen thirties.

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I can't remember. I used to I used to all

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this stuff by heart. It's been years. I try not

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to think about it anymore. That like, that's where the

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rapture came from. It was like, oh, I mean it

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was literally a girl who was mentally ill and Darby

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heard this and ran.

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Speaker 4: With it and had a dream.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it was something like that, right, It was like, yeah,

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it was like a fever dream or something. I mean

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she was known to be mentally ill, ye had you know,

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she was disturbed and apparently Darby heard of this. I mean,

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I don't think he hear at it first hand, but he

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heard of this and just decided to run with it.

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And then you've come forward, and right around the time

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the Protosionist writings are being written, in your eighteen fifties

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and eighteen sixties, you start hearing people talking about this.

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And it's been a long time since I read that

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Schofield book, and it's been a while since I did

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an episode on this. But I'm trying to remember when

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exactly Scofield presents this. And I know Samuel Untermyer, a

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very wealthy benefactor, was the one who was the one

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who got it published, and he helped to get it

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into all the Moody Bible colleges. And this is right

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around I think this happens right around right after the

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First World War in the early nineteen twenties. Correct me

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if I'm wrong, that's correct.

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Speaker 3: He's a He's also an occultist of some sword with

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the Golden Dragon order.

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Speaker 4: Or something, if you look into that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was one of the public or the

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helped publish it funded at.

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Speaker 2: Least when if you get your study Bible, and you

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know this wasn't like my friend Buckcha, who I love,

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I've known for years. He was doing a show on

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it recently and he said that, oh, this was the

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first study Bible, and I was like, actually, the Geneva

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Bible had notes. Most people don't know that. The fifteen

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I can't remember what year that the Bible came out,

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but it was just basically notes on. It wasn't trying

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to it was explained, trying to explain like the tougher passages,

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things like that. But you know this is those notes.

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These notes turn out to be basically teaching you that

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the Bible has its own worldview and that God has

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given you the Bible and now He's inspired these notes,

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which is basically the way it was sold, and that

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this is exactly what scripture teaches. And I'm not saying

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this hyperbolically. I mean I've met people face to face

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who believe this, who believe that the notes of the

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Skillfield Bible are somewhat inspired. And I know I have

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a hard time believing that this was hidden for eighteen

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hundred and fifty years. I mean, I know a lot

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of people think the Catholic Church is so evil that

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they have every you know, the Library of Alexandria's in

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the basement of the Vatican. I don't think they would

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have hidden this, hidden this for fifteen hundred years and

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then what another three hundred and fifty years of Protestantism

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doesn't figure it out, and then all of a sudden,

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this just drops out of the sky. I mean, this

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is literally like it may as well have been written

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on golden tablets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that, I mean that was kind of the attitude

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of that sort of mid nineteenth century bibalism anyway, and again,

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like the cults that came from that time had the

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same attitude. Mean, you mentioned the golden plates, but literally

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that's the milieu that Mormonism comes to, you know. I

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mean like it's again that mood of wanting to just

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make a complete break from the past, and Mormons decided

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to take a really complete break from the past and

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just do their own thing entirely. But it was that

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same attitude. You know. The thing with the Scofield Study

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Bible too, was and this is one of the reasons

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why it's like, you know, you mentioned the Geneva Bible,

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but the Geneva Bible was so impactful in its time,

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and it's hard for us to kind of remember this

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now because we have so much access to information, and

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even our parents said, you know, they didn't have the

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Internet so much, but they had at least they had

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libraries with a lot of these info in it from

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various perspectives. When the Scofield Bible came out, for a

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lot of people, that's the only, like, the only theology

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they had too, other than the Bible itself, that was

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really the only commentary they had. Maybe Matthew's commentary, but

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I don't think it was popular then the the way

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it is now. And so for a lot of those guys,

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I mean, yeah, this is the first time they ever

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heard someone, you know, do an in depth explanation of

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what the Bible was in our written form, and also

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one where they could regularly the interface with it as

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they were doing their private reading. And so yeah, for

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a lot of people, I mean, even if they didn't

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at the time say it was divinely inspired, I mean,

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if that's the if that's the one guy who's consistently

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teaching you, I mean, you're gonna hold that one man's

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opinion too high regard, even if the notes he's saying

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don't actually match the text, you know, they could just

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be completely unrelated in most cases, but that's what you had,

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and so and so they decided to cling to it.

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Speaker 3: And you have this also, the skull film Bible off

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tune is a if someone just started getting back in

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the church or going back to church and they didn't

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have a Bible, churches would just hand those out too.

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So those are common Bibles that were given to people.

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And uh, I mean you mentioned the seminaries. They would

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do that stuff as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned like Matthew Henry's Elementary. When I

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was when I was going to Protestant church, I was

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a partial to John Gills, which is gigantic. I mean,

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you're talking about multiple volumes and basically what you the genius,

305
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the evil genius of the Schofield Bible is is basically

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you have a demented systematic theology that you can carry

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in your hand. You know, there aren't many people who

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are who are able to carry around multiple volumes of

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Matthew Henry or John Gill or the many the many

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other many other ones that came out of Princeton in

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like the nineteen hundreds. But this gives you a systematic

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theology and it makes you think it makes especially a

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new believer, someone who's naive, someone who doesn't know anything

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about church history, who doesn't know that no one was

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talking about this, you know, more than one hundred and

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fifty two hundred years ago. It makes them feel like

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they know something. And also the whole thing about it

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pointing towards escatontology has always been something of a of

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a problem with me. I'm I'm very much a I

320
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don't know how much so anymore, but very much a preterist.

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And you if you want to be a preterist, you

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have to go find books like the Perusia. You have

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to go you're reading five hundred page books, and you're

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finding books that have been out of print for a century.

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And the problem, one of the big biggest problems I

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have with eschatology is it is very attractive for the

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average person because the average person is not very intelligent.

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They're not reading thousand they're not reading, you know, five

329
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hundred page books, thousand page books. They're not digging into commentaries,

330
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they're not going to the Bible, to the library at

331
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the local seminary eschatology and believing in eschatology as like

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I know the truth of what's going to happen plays

333
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to your ego very easily, and I think that's what

334
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this Gofield Bible was. It was something to play to

335
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the average person's ego where they're reading scripture and then

336
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they're like, I don't understand this, and then they go

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down to the notes and it's like, oh, this is

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telling me exactly what the scripture means, and that what

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what it means, what God meant by inspiring this scripture,

340
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and then you know, but then you look at the

341
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history of you know, a scripture about I don't know,

342
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pick pick one that is you know, yeah, I mean

343
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something that has been for two thousand years debated in

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in freaking monasteries, and people are like, oh, I know

345
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actly what this means. It's like, wait a minute, you

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know exactly, you know more than Thomas Aquinas. You're going

347
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to You're going to say that Aquinas was wrong about

348
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what he said about this scripture. And it just plays

349
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to people's egos. And I think that's one of the

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that's one of the things that it's one of the

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reasons why, I mean, you have to study eschatology, but

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it's one of the reasons why I hate eschatology is

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because they're very unserious people who are not even unserious people,

354
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very uneducated people, people who do not you know, who

355
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can't tell you how they would feel if they didn't

356
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eat breakfast this morning, now believe that they know exactly

357
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what scripture, what scripture means, when this has been debated

358
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for two thousand years.

359
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Speaker 1: Well, another way to kind of approach what you're getting

360
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at is, you know, so I'm gonna, you know, speak

361
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from a Protestant perspective, but you know, one big, you know,

362
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one big you know, biblical Hermoneudic that came out of

363
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the Reformation was that you are it's always better too,

364
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and so the Bible sufficient to interpret itself and the

365
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sense that you know, like you can read the Bible

366
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and the Bible will explain what it means to you

367
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through it's referencing itself. But if you're going to do that,

368
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you have to start with the passages that are really

369
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like easy to understand, and then you work from there

370
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into more complicated passages. If you're someone who gets really

371
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into eschatology, you're starting with probably the like one of

372
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the most complicated subjects in theology. Coming to a form

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of certainty on it and then taking your conclusion and

374
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working into the plain meaning of the text. You know. So,

375
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for example, you'll have people who will have really really

376
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strong opinions on like the thousand year Reign, for example,

377
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from the end of Revelation, and they'll start there and

378
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they'll use that interpretation to explain passages that really are

379
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like pretty straightforward, but because they came to a really

380
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firm and usually aer in you know, conclusion on the

381
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thousand year rag, all of a sudden, the whole Bible

382
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gets distorted because you have to take these plane passages

383
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and make them kind of twist to mess in to

384
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what you decided your eschatology was what in reality, you know,

385
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it really should take you years to get there.

386
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and that's I think that that's one of

387
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the reasons why they had to get it into the

388
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Moody Bible colleges immediately was if we're going to make

389
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this go wide, it has to the person in the

390
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pulpit has to believe it. And you know, like I said,

391
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if the person in the pulpit is standing up there

392
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and you know, it's like I was just thinking about this,

393
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like Matthew Henry, I've used Matthew Henry's Bible commentary extensively

394
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for John Gills. When you read through like Paul's letters,

395
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they're pretty they're pretty solid on what they mean, and

396
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almost to the point of there's there's sort of not

397
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so much with Gilbert, with Henry, a little bit of

398
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an arrogance, like, I mean, come on, come on, guys,

399
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,000
this is easy stuff. But not when they get to eschatology.

400
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:21,720
When they get to eschatology, you see that shifts away

401
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:26,279
and you see different arguments for what different passages mean.

402
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:31,480
And you have to take into consideration that if you're

403
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:39,160
going to brainwash a whole generation or generations of people

404
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:47,599
into believing that they know exactly what prophecy means, I mean,

405
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do you understand how dangerous? Does anybody understand how dangerous

406
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,640
that is? I mean, this is why you you can

407
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:09,200
show so many evangelicles videos of Israeli's raping prisoners and

408
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:13,240
they either are going to completely ignore it, or if

409
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:15,559
they do comment on it, they're going to make excuses

410
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for it.

411
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Speaker 4: I mean, it's a multiple generation brainwashing.

412
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 3: I mean, and it goes from like a pastor to

413
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a layman and then I'm not layman to the family

414
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and then you know, just keeps repeating the cycle over

415
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:31,480
and over again.

416
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's no real humility about it. And you know,

417
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,079
one thing that I know from studying scripture, from studying

418
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:55,279
systematic theology, going down numerous numerous rabbit holes on soteriological

419
00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:01,839
discussions from the fifteen sixteen hundreds between the Baptists and

420
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the Covenant theologians. I mean, the scripture is not easy.

421
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,359
It's not. It just isn't. There are some things that

422
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,799
were there's some things that you're going to go to

423
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:19,200
the grave not being able to understand and handling someone

424
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,680
a Bible and saying here, now, you can understand everything

425
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:30,160
that's in here. I that's not only dangerous, that's basically abuse.

426
00:26:31,079 --> 00:26:35,920
That's spiritual abuse. And I think you have generations of

427
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,799
people that have been spiritually abused.

428
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Speaker 3: And yeah, there's also some other things that start to

429
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,880
factor into the twentieth century that kind of makes it

430
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,720
this like self fulfilling prophecy where you were talking about

431
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:50,200
early Zionism in uh, well, I guess it comes from

432
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,359
the Russian Pale kind of settlements. You start seeing that

433
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,000
going on in the eighteen eighties, and you start seeing

434
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,759
that during World War one with the Balford Declaration and

435
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:02,079
all kind of stuff that comes out of it. But

436
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,920
you also have some other writers at the time. I

437
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,920
don't know, are you familiar with Clarence Markin. He's the

438
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,480
guy that does all the charts. He got out a

439
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:12,119
book called A Dispensational Truth. I actually have it here

440
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,599
on my desk that I'm looking at right now.

441
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to. I used to do the books

442
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:20,599
for the South Florida Life Waste stores, and I saw

443
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:23,039
those books when I was when I was doing those,

444
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,440
I don't remember those in the seminary that book in

445
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,160
the seminary library, but I know I've seen that book.

446
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,440
And it's just I'm about talk about a book that

447
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:35,559
you're like, oh, this is the truth, and then you

448
00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:37,519
give it to somebody and you're like you look at

449
00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:38,920
it and you're like, what the hell what is this?

450
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,039
Speaker 4: It's full of lots of different charts.

451
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: And I was going through some passages the other day,

452
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and I mean, you've got some of these kind of

453
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,640
predictions in there that the time of the Church ends

454
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,440
this year, or the time of the Church ended in

455
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,599
eighteen eighty eight. I think I was what I was reading,

456
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,720
and then you start having this kind of like what

457
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,400
you could sew. I know, they'll say that Covenant theology

458
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,839
is replacement theology, but really what they're doing is it's

459
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:06,200
subverting the Church and then replacing the Church with the

460
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,039
modern nation state of Israel. And that kind of stuff

461
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,960
ran rampant in smaller little Bible colleges all throughout the

462
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,519
South and probably a little bit of the North, especially

463
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,599
amongst Baptists, throughout the twentieth century.

464
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,319
Speaker 4: And then they would start producing these little pamphlet books

465
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:29,480
here that aren't more than fifty pages, that are basically

466
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:31,880
kind of like even a more watered down version of

467
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,519
what Scholfield was writing. And especially you see this ramp

468
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:41,599
up in the nineteen it's like nineteen fifties, right after

469
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,000
forty eight that all these little books like John r. Ries,

470
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:50,400
Peter Ruckman, Hayles Anderson, a lot of these guys started

471
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,519
producing and distributing these here to their Sunday school classes.

472
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,440
I'm looking at one right now, and this one was

473
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,160
printed in nineteen fifty and approximately sixty thousand copies in

474
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,480
nineteen fifty fifty one five thousand and fifty two five thousand.

475
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,400
So you think in like a little book like this

476
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:12,920
right here, that's not more than fifty pages got distributed

477
00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:17,400
to I don't know, roughly they have a need to

478
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:21,839
eighty thousand people here, and these all were mainly distributed

479
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,400
to Sunday school classes, adults school classes, and who knows

480
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,119
how many people that taught and how many you know

481
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,119
people you know those people taught. So it becomes kind

482
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,319
of this like cascading effect here where you know, you

483
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,200
have schoolfield and he kind of comes up with this

484
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:42,680
novel idea, or really it's the Plymouth Brethren in the

485
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,240
schoolfield just runs with it, and you end up having

486
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,559
Larkin with his charts, and it starts looking a little

487
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:51,960
bit I'll just use the word, it starts looking more scholarly,

488
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:57,400
and a lot of your smaller Baptist colleges and evangelical

489
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,640
kind of schools of thought, they start picking this up

490
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,839
and start running with it, especially after forty eight, so

491
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,599
you have now you're talking about the generation before the boomers,

492
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,799
You got your silent generation. They kind of buy into

493
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:13,079
it a little bit, and then the Boomer generation they

494
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:18,119
really really buy into it. And I think largely it's

495
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,240
pretty much destroyed church attendance in America, just like as

496
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:23,640
a whole.

497
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,359
Speaker 3: I mean, even though you still have you know, the

498
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:29,559
Boomers clinging on to this kind of ideology. I think,

499
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,000
what's happened and you brought this up, and you know

500
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,799
you're opening here. It's almost like you're living in a

501
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:43,559
dispensational political worldview now rather than a theological dispensational worldview.

502
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:46,720
And I would say something like having a heritage American

503
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:49,400
position would be, you know, if you want to put

504
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,839
it into political terms, would be like a covenant view

505
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,200
of they of what America is not spiritualizing it really,

506
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,599
But that's kind of where we're at right now in

507
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,799
the twenty you know, twenty first century, where you know,

508
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:06,000
even people that don't even know they're dispensational, they're still

509
00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:09,599
kind of espousing this kind of dispensational worldview that we

510
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:10,119
see today.

511
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: Well, sure, it's okay.

512
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,039
Speaker 1: Sorry, I was gonna say. I was saying that that

513
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,079
sort of sounded like that was a good transition point

514
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:26,079
into how exactly that worldview which still exists, but I

515
00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:30,440
think certainly was very strong a few decades ago. You

516
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,960
saw it certainly and full strength around George W.

517
00:31:34,039 --> 00:31:34,599
Speaker 2: Bush.

518
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: But I was wondering if you could give us sort

519
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,440
of a historical breakdown on how this way of seeing

520
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,119
the world sort of entered into our foreign policy, sort

521
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,599
of when that arose, how long you think it persisted,

522
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:49,119
and whether you think that's kind of still on the

523
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,640
way out or whether you think that still has some

524
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:52,319
staying power.

525
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,079
Speaker 4: Testing did well.

526
00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: Here, I'm sorry I was muted out. Okay, sorry about that. Wow,

527
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:08,920
don't worry, I'm a professional. The So, what I was

528
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,319
saying was, if you if you look at when the

529
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:18,240
Bible started hitting when the Scofield Bible started hitting Bible colleges,

530
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,759
which gives it legitimacy. Preachers stand up, It gives it

531
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:25,839
even more legitimacy. They start preaching it. This must be

532
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,119
the truth. Nineteen forty eight is when you you know,

533
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,000
people are like, okay, the clock begins state you know,

534
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,240
Israel has been refounded, and now everything you know, we're

535
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:48,160
going to now shoehorn this into this teaching, and you don't.

536
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,599
What's funny is if you really study the fifties and

537
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,960
the sixties, there's so much The fifties is very political time.

538
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:57,640
The sixties is very revolutionary time. It's once you get

539
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,440
into the seventies you really start seeing people that are like, well,

540
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,279
you know, we're coming up on one generation of Israel,

541
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,039
and someone like I think it was Hal Lindsay who

542
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:15,039
wrote was it eighty eight reasons or was it reason

543
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,200
eighty eight reasons why the Rapture will happen in nineteen

544
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,599
eighty eight something like that. And of course, I mean

545
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,319
all of these to these predictions never come true. Does

546
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:30,039
anybody I'm old enough to remember why two K? Just

547
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:32,359
I'm going to take this off on a side tangent

548
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,160
for a while for a second, just so that I

549
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,759
can talk about the pastors that should have been taken

550
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:46,319
out and stoned. I was doing books for Life Way

551
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:51,599
Baptist Life Way Baptist stores in South Florida in nineteen

552
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,599
ninety nine and two thousand, and the amount of preachers

553
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,759
that got rich off of why two K the World

554
00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:02,759
is coming to an end books? They should have been

555
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,599
taken out and stoned. And the fact that they kept

556
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:12,800
their flocks is I mean to me, is all right,

557
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:19,480
I'll go back now so that Jesus doesn't come back

558
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:22,079
in nineteen eighty eight. The rapture doesn't happen in nineteen

559
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:25,239
eighty eight. Okay, so we got that wrong. They can

560
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,480
always just keep changing everything. Then you get into the

561
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,440
into the late nineteen you get into the nineteen nineties,

562
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,639
and I was working, like I said, I was doing

563
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:44,920
books for a book chain in South Florida. Does anybody

564
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,559
remember a series of books that came out in the

565
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,719
late nineteen nineties, even if you weren't.

566
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,039
Speaker 4: Alive, you talking about the Left Behind series?

567
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: Yes, I was working doing books in a Christian bookstore

568
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,199
when you couldn't even keep those on the shelf and

569
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,760
people were like lined up for the new releases.

570
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 3: Have you ever had a conversation with somebody where they

571
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,679
start basically quoting that book for geology?

572
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty unbelievable.

573
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was having conversations with people in

574
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,960
nineteen ninety nine who were like, why hasn't this been

575
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,920
made into a movie yet? And every once in a

576
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,920
while you'd have somebody slip and go, why hasn't this

577
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,079
been made into a document? I mean a movie yet?

578
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:40,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a I remember when the movie, actually the

579
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:44,639
first movie came out, they had like churches all over

580
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:48,039
the area had basically watch parties that you could go

581
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:51,199
to and watch it, and then the pastor would come

582
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,119
and discuss what you had watched and you know, break

583
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:57,639
it down, and then of course outcomes the Clarence Larkin

584
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:04,000
charts and lots of they would lots of you know,

585
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:06,440
I guess you could say like they would have these

586
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,159
like week or two week long Bible studies that they

587
00:36:10,199 --> 00:36:12,599
would you know, go through all the prophecy texts and

588
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,360
try to break that down and say like, oh, and

589
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,360
in your guys's life, so this is what they told

590
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,559
a lot of I guess millennials, you could say, in

591
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:22,239
your guys's lifetime, Christ is going to rapture you know,

592
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,920
everyone out, because you know, this is the last generation

593
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:27,800
because in this generation, you know, they would go down

594
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,480
that whole rabbit hole, and you know, you keep telling

595
00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:33,599
it to a generation over and over and over again,

596
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,679
and you keep being wrong about it. Eventually you kind

597
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:40,559
of have like the legacy media effect that we see

598
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:43,440
now is that people don't buy it, and you know,

599
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:46,679
they don't buy the theory. But what you end up

600
00:36:46,679 --> 00:36:48,800
having to have people just straight up leaving the church,

601
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,559
which is even a bigger problem than bad theology in itself.

602
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: Sure, and the whole you know, pre tribulation rapture thing

603
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,199
just ignores two thousand years of history. I mean, when

604
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,760
has God spared us from suffering?

605
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 4: And there's some dark times, some pretty dark times in history.

606
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 3: So I mean it's one of those things where you

607
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,559
know it's going wrong.

608
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 4: It is it is.

609
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean I'm not the I'm I'm not

610
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,519
like a timeline historian on this. I'm more of a narrative.

611
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,280
You know, I look at the whole narrative. So after nine,

612
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,440
after nine to eleven, you know, you basically people start

613
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:42,039
having conversations about you know this, you know, who are

614
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:44,480
these people that we're going to war against? Okay, so

615
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:48,000
we're going to go to war against Islam? And it

616
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,199
would always be brought up in churches. And this is

617
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,599
one of the one of the main reasons why I

618
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:58,199
mean I left Protestantism when I did, was because no

619
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,960
one could agree on anything. I mean, I was in

620
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,880
a church to split twice in like six months. And

621
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,559
this is a sixteen eighty nine Reform Baptist church.

622
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: It's still a common Baptist elf Y said, And I'm

623
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:13,880
I'm a and I'm a Baptist.

624
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 4: So that's a common Baptist alum. Yeah, that's you know,

625
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:19,039
they'll they'll split over the copper color.

626
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,119
Speaker 2: And I was going to a Pcay seminary, and you know,

627
00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:27,960
I believed that, you know, at least there was some

628
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:33,400
kind of order there that there. I don't know, I

629
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,119
didn't put it this way. The the seminary I went

630
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:39,920
to was attached to a very huge church, and I

631
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,440
didn't see them having splits. They just seemed to be

632
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,039
growing at the time. But the I still was just

633
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:50,559
watching all this happen, and after nine to eleven, it

634
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,480
just it just made no sense to me because people

635
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:56,920
started saying, you know, I'm like, I'm going, okay, Well,

636
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,679
I mean I've studied Islam a little bit. There really

637
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:04,760
didn't seem to be a problem with Islamic terrorism up

638
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,320
until like the late nineteenth century the early twentieth century.

639
00:39:08,639 --> 00:39:13,119
And why did that happen, Well, because a certain group

640
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:17,880
started moving back. I mean they were still they were there,

641
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,639
they had been there, had been Jews in Palestine the

642
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:24,960
whole time they've been living there. I mean, I've read

643
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:29,519
diaries of rabbis from like the seventeen hundreds talking about how,

644
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,119
you know, it was great that they could on the Sabbath,

645
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:36,400
they could leave their front door open, and everybody was

646
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,760
getting along, but then a certain group with a certain

647
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,639
ideology started moving there, and all of a sudden, violence

648
00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:52,159
started happening. And I'm like, I wonder if that violence

649
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,039
would have happened if those people didn't move there. And

650
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:57,599
I started asking those questions, and people started going, well,

651
00:39:57,639 --> 00:39:59,880
why are you blaming them? They were just moving the

652
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,519
there was no one there, And I'm like, well, wait

653
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:04,519
a minute. You just said that there was violence because

654
00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:10,000
the people there were violent. And that's when it's like, well,

655
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:17,679
this this doesn't any sense. You're instinctively defending one this

656
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,880
one group against the other group. And I can understand

657
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,599
if you don't like either of those groups, or if

658
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:27,519
you like both of those groups, Well why are you

659
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:30,960
choosing one group over the other? And why is it

660
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,079
the group that actually moved there that they're the ones

661
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,840
that you're that moved there and push people off the land.

662
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,880
Why are you defending them? Well, they're God's people. And

663
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,320
the way I actually had a pastor tell me this,

664
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,119
I had a Baptist pastor tell me this, The way

665
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:57,039
we know the Bible is true is because the state

666
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:01,840
of Israel exists. And that's when I was like, you

667
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,760
know what I'm I'm done.

668
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 5: Well, Pete, I think that your instincts about some of

669
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,440
the influences in the origins of this movement are correct.

670
00:41:19,679 --> 00:41:25,519
So Darby, who was the precursor to Schofield, was really

671
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:31,199
working within a It was a reactionary movement because of

672
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:40,199
some Jews had been admitted into Protestant universities in these

673
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:46,159
bibl in these Old Testament Biblical studies departments, and this

674
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:52,159
gave rise to the higher criticism movement, as this really

675
00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:57,519
started within a rabbinical tradition of questioning the veracity of

676
00:41:57,559 --> 00:42:02,159
God's word because for them, the Messiah hadn't come, and

677
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:10,000
Protestants struggled with the question of Jesus said he was

678
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:15,360
going to return and he didn't, even though those of

679
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,159
us who come from a more Preadterist or partial Preadterist

680
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,519
background would say, well, eighty seventy was a fulfillment of his.

681
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,159
Speaker 4: Prophecy in Matthew twenty four and a type of coming.

682
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,599
Speaker 5: Anyway, the Protestants because of a and again I'm a

683
00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:40,119
PCA Presbyterian just as background and subscribe to the Westminster Confession.

684
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,880
That being said, Protestants were confused. It didn't have a

685
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,199
singular voice on the answer to these questions, and so

686
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,920
these rabbinical traditions gained purchase in the early and mid

687
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,000
eighteen hundreds and really gave fruit to this higher criticism

688
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:01,960
movement of well, the word cannot be trusted, and Darby

689
00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:06,320
was really a reaction to that. Uh So, the the

690
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:12,840
Jewish influence is huge here, and so the the reaction

691
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:17,239
took form of an answering in in in Jewish terms

692
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,719
rather than in Christian terms. And so, Pete, I think

693
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,760
your your your instincts and study er are are right

694
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,119
as far as the genesis unintended of what's going on here?

695
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 4: The uh uh.

696
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 5: So, how do you respond to higher criticism? You you

697
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,480
you go in in and basically create a literalistic hermeneutic

698
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,559
which says, not only is the Word of God true,

699
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:52,960
but there's you flatten out all poetic references, all prophecy references,

700
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,320
and so on and so forth, and you do so

701
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,079
in kind of a Kindergarten way. Uh. For instance, you know,

702
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:02,920
you get all the ruminations about six sixty six and

703
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,199
the number of the beast, and yet that's just a

704
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:12,920
reference to Solomon taking in you know, not holding to

705
00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:16,119
his kingly limitations and taking in six hundred and sixty

706
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:21,320
six talents of gold. All that becomes is ignored, and

707
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,320
you get this entire literalistic hermeneutic which Schofield and the

708
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:33,079
Philip partnering and piggybacking on the Plymouth Brethren really runs with.

709
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,199
And then Rory the Riary Study Bible, which came out,

710
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,760
oh gosh, late sixties, early seventies. Charles Rary, who was

711
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:50,280
a professor at Dallas Seminary, really ran with that. So

712
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,880
the Riary Study Bible was hugely influential. So anyway, I

713
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,760
just wanted to give some of that historic background and

714
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,480
back up what Pete was saying as far as Jewish

715
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:04,159
influence in the in the origins of this movement.

716
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: Well and on between literal reading and literalistic reading, you know.

717
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:16,559
So it was the historic tradition really of the Church.

718
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:18,559
And you know, especially you see it in the Protestant

719
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:21,599
and Protestantism that you are supposed to read the scripture literally.

720
00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:24,280
You're right to say that what the dispensationalist did was

721
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,400
something different. So when the Reformers, for example, we're saying

722
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,840
you need to read the scripture literally, what they were

723
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,519
saying is you should always read the Bible the way

724
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:36,320
it's presented, like in the passage you're reading. So for example,

725
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,039
if you're in a section that's poetic, let's say the

726
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,760
Song of Solomon, if you're reading Song of Solomon, you

727
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,920
know it's actually not a literal reading to read that

728
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:49,639
passage like, you know, literalistically. You actually should read it

729
00:45:49,679 --> 00:45:54,639
poetically because it's literally a book. Whereas the dispensationalist decided

730
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:58,039
that no matter what the genre of the text was,

731
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,559
it was all going to be interpreted sort of like

732
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:04,199
you said, in a sort of childishly, you know, flat

733
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,760
way of looking at it, so that it was it.

734
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,559
It was actually ignoring the way the Bible was telling

735
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:12,559
you to read it, and they just thought they would

736
00:46:12,559 --> 00:46:16,840
read everything just at face value without any honor consideration.

737
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,400
And so I'm glad you brought that up. That's an

738
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:19,280
important distinction.

739
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,079
Speaker 5: Well, you know, the the questions that were brought about,

740
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:30,360
you know, you had the commitment, uh you know, Schleiermacher

741
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,960
ended up being kind of the end of this with

742
00:46:33,079 --> 00:46:37,440
the and the quest for the historic Jesus and all

743
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,760
that was this again, this higher criticism movement that said

744
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,639
you couldn't trust your Bible when we know again that

745
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,639
the Bible is the most attested to work of ancient

746
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,039
literature there is. But but there were all these questions

747
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:59,400
that were brought up that that suddenly seminary students were

748
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,800
thinking they didn't have answers to and this dispensational hermonutic

749
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,639
comes along and says, oh, you don't know, we've not

750
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,559
only not only do we have the answers, you don't

751
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:14,400
even really need to. It's just this uh, this hermoneutict

752
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,559
that a middle schooler could understand, again going against exactly

753
00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:22,280
what Pete says that you know, the basics of the

754
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,719
Gospel can be understood by a young by a child.

755
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,400
There here there's a redeemer king who loves you and

756
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,280
has shown his love by dying for you. That that

757
00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:34,159
very basic. But the depths of scripture you can never

758
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:40,320
fully uh, one person could never fully get their arms

759
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,639
completely around and understand the depths of So it was

760
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:48,920
an attempt, in a again in a simplistic way, to

761
00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:53,360
provide a means to answer these questions. But again I

762
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:59,400
think in within a the framing, instead of being Christian,

763
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,360
was Jewish. And what I mean by that is is

764
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,360
that it sought to answer the questions that were originally

765
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,840
raised by a group of liberal rabbis.

766
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: And the.

767
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 5: Vast majority of the church, well, the believing parts of

768
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:22,639
the church, said well, we don't you know, what's going

769
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:25,079
on in Germany. We can kind of ignore that right now,

770
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:30,480
but it really took hold in American seminaries in the

771
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:33,199
late eighteen hundreds, and so this was just an answer

772
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,639
to that. And so we can have even though it's crazy,

773
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:43,320
you know, Darby and Schofield and these and Ryri and

774
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,880
Walverard and Zuck and so on and so forth, you

775
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:55,360
can understand where the where this movement came from, in

776
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,360
the sense of people weren't getting their pastors were no

777
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,000
longer sent of course, you can trust your Bible. Of

778
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:05,599
course you can trust your Bible. And so you know,

779
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,760
I have I have a a I have I have

780
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,079
some sympathy for the pew sitter who gets who got

781
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,480
you know, sucked into this even with you know, because

782
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,559
Billy Graham. Let's let's let's remember that Billy Graham was

783
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,719
a member of a Dallas church. I'm in Dallas, by

784
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,400
the way, so I know a lot of these uh people,

785
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:34,199
uh uh somewhat closely. Billy Graham was a dispensationalist, wrote

786
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,760
the book Approaching hoof Beats, which in the late sixties

787
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,719
had a huge influence on Baptist preachers.

788
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:45,639
Speaker 2: So well, I think, you know, the one thing that

789
00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:49,000
we haven't talked about, which I think is really the

790
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:55,119
thing that I can't believe people accepted, even people who

791
00:49:55,199 --> 00:50:01,159
nominally understood scripture, was you know, the whole plan B

792
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:05,559
that Jesus came to the Jews, the Jews rejected him,

793
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:06,960
and He's like, okay, so I'm going to go to

794
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,199
the you guys are on hold over here, and I'm

795
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:17,119
going to go to the Gentiles and there's a future thing. Yeah, no, one, no.

796
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,480
And you know, and and I mentioned I've mentioned that

797
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:22,480
to people who you know, They're like, well, you know,

798
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,360
I grew up in a Scholfield church, but I don't

799
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,079
believe that. And I'm like, it doesn't matter what you

800
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:30,639
you're the spirit of it.

801
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: You know.

802
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: It's like people people who Americans, most most Americans have

803
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:40,280
never read the Constitution, but because they grew up here,

804
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:46,760
they've it's been put into them. They've they've adopted its values.

805
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:50,119
It's beliefs by osmosis. You know, the people who have

806
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,519
been here for for people who've been here for generations.

807
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:55,960
His family has been here for generations, even if they

808
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,039
don't know, it's just it's it's become a part of us.

809
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,079
It's the same thing in churches. You don't have to

810
00:51:02,119 --> 00:51:05,960
believe it if you are, if you're sympathetic to well,

811
00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:09,599
you know, Israel is the modern state of Israel has

812
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:13,119
something to do with the prophecy of the Bible. And

813
00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:16,679
you can make that claim. But if you say, I

814
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,000
know exactly what it is, because you know, because of

815
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:23,599
these notes here in this Bible, it told me, well,

816
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,079
you have no legitimacy. And I'm not saying that you

817
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:35,000
know you can you just because something came eighteen hundred

818
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:39,599
and fifty years later that it's not true. But you

819
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:44,880
really have to think that in a time in centuries

820
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:50,119
when all when there were monasteries, and all monks did

821
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:53,760
all their job was to do was to study the

822
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,440
Bible and read scripture, they would have saw this. Someone

823
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,239
would have saw this, someone would have came up with this,

824
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:06,039
something even close to it. But they didn't. And when

825
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:11,559
you take into consideration political you know, the politics of

826
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:13,679
the last one hundred and fifty one hundred and seventy

827
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,719
five years. I think it's a lot easier to see

828
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:22,320
exactly where this came from. It's it's hard to explain

829
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,440
that to somebody who's bought into this unless you can

830
00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:29,880
explain it from a political from a you know, a

831
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,480
geopolitical standpoint, because it's just geopolitics.

832
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, So would you say that the political route, you know, so,

833
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,079
like you have this dispensationalism and it's been kind of

834
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:48,119
brewing in the background, most mostly seen among fundamentalists. That's

835
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,800
actually a conversation worth having, and that's I mean, probably

836
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,159
not tonight, just to stay on track with time and everything,

837
00:52:53,199 --> 00:52:57,559
but you know, the dismensationalism stuck around because the fundamentalists

838
00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:00,400
latched onto the fundamentalists were also at one point basically

839
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,079
the only Christians in America because everyone else, you know,

840
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:05,760
like all the other liberal denominations were completely falling apart

841
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,119
and losing orthodoxy. That's a different conversation anywhere. So it's

842
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:12,119
been brewing in the background. Would you say that it's

843
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,320
the sort of tri faith alliance that sort of arises

844
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,679
in neo conservatism that sort of brings well maybe not

845
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,639
even brings that theology, but sort of realizes that that

846
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,400
theology is a useful tool to get you know, an

847
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,480
untapped kind of fundamentalist voter base to agree with them.

848
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,199
And then that's maybe when dismisationalism started to make a

849
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,519
presence in national politics.

850
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,679
Speaker 2: What decade, what decade are you looking at?

851
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 1: I would start probably with the forties. I would say

852
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,719
that's when Buckley started consolidating his guys.

853
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you you see the birth of neo

854
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:57,000
conservatism right around the time of the Doctor's plot in

855
00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:02,239
Soviet Russia. Remember, right after the founding of Israel. The

856
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:07,199
Soviets were very, very friendly with with Israel. And then

857
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,320
there just seems to be some kind of there's some

858
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,639
kind of split that seems to coincide with what the

859
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:16,760
Doctor's plot. We don't need to get into that, but

860
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:23,599
they Jewish doctors, though Jewish doctors were plotting and they

861
00:54:23,639 --> 00:54:29,559
executed them all. And yeah, I mean, well, geopolitics sort

862
00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:32,639
of starts well, and that's and I was saying to

863
00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:36,800
go back, sorry, I can rabbit trail very easily. That's

864
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,679
when you see the birth of the neo conservatives. Is

865
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:46,000
when Russia is no longer friendly to Israel, then the

866
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:50,400
neo conservatives come into come into existence, and they're not

867
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:54,480
friendly to Russia anymore because you know, let's face it,

868
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:57,679
I mean we I think anyone who knows and anyone

869
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:03,199
who follows my work knows that what Bolshevism was, and

870
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,079
that up unto a certain point. Basically there was an

871
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:10,719
over there was an over representation in leadership there, and

872
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,719
then all of a sudden, once the state, once the

873
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,559
State of Israel, you know, Stalin always had this problem

874
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:20,559
with the Ospburg groups, the Ospburg groups that had someplace

875
00:55:20,639 --> 00:55:22,920
else to go. That's why they executed Germans, That's why

876
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,719
they executed Lithuanians, That's why they executed Poles. Once Israel

877
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,880
was founded, they tried to be friendly with them for

878
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,159
a while and then it was like well and it

879
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:34,360
wasn't like they kicked Jews out of Russia, but they

880
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:40,719
definitely had control over their population, much like Putina's control

881
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,400
over his population now. But yeah, it seems like that's

882
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,960
when when you start seeing more of that influence, because

883
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,840
if you look at the fathers of neo conservatism, you

884
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,599
you know, it's kind of hard not to notice a

885
00:55:56,639 --> 00:56:01,079
pattern there. And the even the you know, the Wasps

886
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,199
and the Goham that were that were on their side

887
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:13,400
were very, very protective, which is why people like you know,

888
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,079
San Francis eventually later on, much later, had to be

889
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:22,039
kicked out. Or if Murray Rothbart at some point made

890
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:25,280
some reference that they didn't like, didn't matter that he

891
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,559
was a Jew, they had to they had to denounce him.

892
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:35,440
So yeah, I mean, I think that the there's a

893
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:41,079
lot of there's a lot of things that surround the

894
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:43,599
rising of neo conservatism, but one of one of the

895
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:48,239
big ones is the Jews losing a lot of the

896
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,119
power that they had in the Soviet Union, and then

897
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,760
from there on you see a real push and then

898
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,000
you see you know, in the sixty seven War, the

899
00:56:58,119 --> 00:57:02,440
United States backs doesn't fight them obviously, you know, gets attacked,

900
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,639
a bunch of Americans get killed. Seventy three War, there's

901
00:57:05,679 --> 00:57:10,280
no real no pushback, no pushback. But you know, when

902
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,599
you really if you want to look at foreign policy,

903
00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:15,159
then you you have to start coming forward to the

904
00:57:15,199 --> 00:57:18,679
eighties and you start seeing that there there's a real

905
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:24,239
switch to where as it just seems like that first generation.

906
00:57:25,519 --> 00:57:28,760
The closer you get to nineteen eighty eight, the more

907
00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:34,719
the United States government gets people are behind Israel and

908
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,559
you know, then you can look at Reagan's cabinet and see,

909
00:57:39,719 --> 00:57:42,400
you know, who who's making that up. Even if they're

910
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,280
and I'm not saying that they're all they were all Jewish,

911
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,639
but they were definitely all what you would call neo Kanish.

912
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,599
So everybody knows.

913
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:59,159
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so a question on that. So you so

914
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,599
you see the New York has increasingly coming to power,

915
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,440
you know, through Reagan's administration. Then of course, you know,

916
00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:08,239
Reagan is very popular, and then he achieves a major

917
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:12,159
foreign policy victory over the Soviet Union. These neo guys

918
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:15,039
stick around. They're obviously still you know, in full force

919
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:21,320
when Bush two is there. Now that we're sort of

920
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,159
moving away from neo conservatism, do you foresee this sort

921
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:29,920
of emphasis in our foreign policy saying the way it is?

922
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,840
Do you think they'll just morph into whatever's coming next?

923
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,840
Do you think there's a substantial Yeah, there's sort of

924
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:40,079
a substantial decrease in their influence. I'm not sure what

925
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:41,840
you think the future of this will be, Whether you

926
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,360
think this sort of foreign policy commitment to Israel is

927
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:51,199
permanent or whether it'll sort of go out with the neocons.

928
00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: Heal the immediate impulse is to always believe that whoever's

929
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,559
in power and has the power now always have the power.

930
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:07,360
But like my buddy luth Emflar, who's in the in

931
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,880
the chat right now we were talking about last night,

932
00:59:11,679 --> 00:59:16,800
is that one of the reasons why you see why

933
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,400
you've seen so many Zionist Jews in the United States

934
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:29,159
all of a sudden become anti immigration is because the

935
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:33,480
bigger groups, the more groups you have coming in from

936
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,119
the outside, the more groups you're going to have buying

937
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:41,880
for influence. And I would say that one of those

938
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:48,519
groups that I think is even more or is as

939
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:58,960
power hungry, is as nepotistic, is as inclusive is Indians.

940
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:04,159
And I don't it's funny that when all of this

941
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:10,679
was happening during over Christmas, you didn't really see people

942
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,360
a lot of them speaking up against H one B.

943
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:18,320
But you do see them speaking up against anyone who

944
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,760
any group that may have a poor opinion of them. Well,

945
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,760
why would you speak up against the group that has

946
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,039
a poor opinion of you other than just survival, just

947
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:34,039
general survival, and that's your history. Everyone's oppressing us. If

948
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:36,599
you say anything bad about us, that means you just

949
01:00:36,639 --> 01:00:39,920
want to kill us in poke ramas well, because if

950
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,519
you let in groups that are inclusive, they can push

951
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:47,239
you out of power. And I know that that's impossible

952
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:53,039
for people who are not intelligent enough to handle the

953
01:00:53,159 --> 01:00:58,880
JQ who run around on social media and just basically

954
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,039
call anybody who disagrees with them a Jew to deal with.

955
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,440
But there is there is a chance that these people

956
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:11,000
lose their influence and their power. It happened in the

957
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,960
Soviet Union, it can happen anywhere.

958
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 3: So it isn't that that's declining the support for I

959
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,000
guess you would say the modern nation state of Israel.

960
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:24,480
I mean, if you look at some Pew research of

961
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,920
you know, young people, and I think it's even young

962
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,800
people that attend church at a regular basis, even if

963
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,119
they go to a dispensational church, they don't buy that

964
01:01:35,239 --> 01:01:39,760
ideology anymore. So, I mean, where do you In one hand,

965
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,639
I was talking to a friend about this here the

966
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:44,679
other day. In one hand, you had a lot of

967
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,880
subversive behavior going on with undermining Christian values in the country,

968
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,840
which was arguably their biggest defense. Right So now we're

969
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,880
here in you know, twenty twenty five, they don't have

970
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,960
that support anymore because America largely isn't a.

971
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 4: I'll use the term cultural.

972
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:07,039
Speaker 3: Christian country anymore because a lot of people have walked

973
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:09,519
away from the faith because of these issues that we've

974
01:02:09,519 --> 01:02:13,280
discussed about. But now you have where they're kind of

975
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,440
in this like catch twenty two, where they've they've undermined

976
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:21,280
their biggest support in their biggest base, and now they

977
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,840
don't really have that same power that they used to have.

978
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,639
How do you think they're going to navigate from that

979
01:02:27,719 --> 01:02:29,800
kind of perspective now.

980
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,199
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like they're going to do it by

981
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:39,599
trying to get laws passed that make it illegal to

982
01:02:39,719 --> 01:02:46,239
even talk about them, and that can only backfire. You know.

983
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,119
One of the things that when you know, one of

984
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:53,400
the problems that I think that they're starting to realize,

985
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:58,320
and especially since October seventh, is that you had a

986
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,760
whole bunch of the running places like the Frankfurt School,

987
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:08,800
writing books like The Authoritarian Personality, coming up with curriculums

988
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,440
that white people are oppressors and colonizers, and well, I

989
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,440
guess the one thing that they forgot to teach them

990
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:20,800
was that Jews aren't white, so they look upon them

991
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:26,760
as colonizers and oppressors now and now they're backpedaling. You'll

992
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:32,000
hear people like Christopher Ruffo who will talk about how

993
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:37,639
whose whole career is about how terrible the college campuses

994
01:03:37,679 --> 01:03:40,559
are and the woke and all of this stuff, and

995
01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:46,519
he'll praise Jewish academics on college campuses. Where do you

996
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:51,760
think this came from? I mean, and I find a

997
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,239
hard time to believe. I have a hard time believing

998
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,440
he doesn't know that. I have hard time believing the

999
01:03:57,519 --> 01:04:00,639
James Lindsay said, well, don't know that. So they're just

1000
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:04,119
going to call people, well right or anti semites if

1001
01:04:04,159 --> 01:04:08,920
you bring it up, if you point out that, you know, what,

1002
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:14,239
what did? What has Dennis Prager said? He said that

1003
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,639
atheist Jews. And I won't just use the one, you know,

1004
01:04:19,719 --> 01:04:22,800
like twelve second clip that I use all the time,

1005
01:04:23,159 --> 01:04:25,639
but there's another clip of him out there explaining exactly

1006
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:29,440
how this happened. Is that atheist Jews, once they abandoned God,

1007
01:04:29,639 --> 01:04:33,840
they you know, they took the whole tikon olam all

1008
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,760
on thing where you're, oh, heal the world, and they

1009
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,880
did it using secular things. So they came up with

1010
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,119
all the isms communism and feminism, and all these things

1011
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:49,159
to heal. Well, the more people who realize that, the

1012
01:04:49,199 --> 01:04:51,480
more people are going to start questioning it. Wait a minute,

1013
01:04:52,719 --> 01:04:56,920
why do you like this? And you know, as doctor

1014
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,519
Matthew Rafael Johnson says, he's like, look, my you know,

1015
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,800
my dentist is Jewish. When I talk about this, I'm

1016
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,920
not talking about my dentist. I'm talking about the fact

1017
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,199
that there are thought leaders out there quote unquote thought

1018
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,800
leaders and whole schools that eighty percent to ninety percent

1019
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:21,440
of them are Jewish. And you have to ask yourself, Okay, well,

1020
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,079
if eighty to ninety percent of them were Chinese, you

1021
01:05:25,239 --> 01:05:29,480
might have to ask a Chinese question, what cause it?

1022
01:05:29,599 --> 01:05:30,199
Speaker 4: What is?

1023
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:36,679
Speaker 2: Why are Chinese people over represented in what seemed to

1024
01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:44,800
be revolutionary and anti American, anti American civilization, anti Western

1025
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:53,199
civilization teachings that basically destroy you know what what our

1026
01:05:53,239 --> 01:05:56,760
ancestors and you know, people who have been here longer

1027
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,760
than my answertors have been here. How come they're just

1028
01:06:00,719 --> 01:06:03,239
why did these Chinese? What are these China? You know,

1029
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,960
why does Biden have four hundred and fifty seven Chinese

1030
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,360
people working in the executive in the executive and you're

1031
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,639
just not going to be able to get past this.

1032
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:19,360
And you know, just there the whole dispensationalism thing is

1033
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:24,159
is falling apart with boomers dying out. And you know

1034
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:29,079
if basically in I forget what what luth empl are

1035
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:31,199
and I had the numbers we were using yesterday, but

1036
01:06:31,679 --> 01:06:34,199
you know, by the time the next election rolls around,

1037
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:37,199
they'll be like ten million boomers will be dead. And

1038
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:39,320
that's like ten million pretty much ten million white people

1039
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,719
are gone. It's like, okay, well, what does that do?

1040
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:47,719
It reduces the demographics here. If you don't start changing things,

1041
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,039
it's going to it's going to get our demographics in

1042
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:52,840
the other direction. But also those are those boomers are

1043
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:57,800
the ones that are mostly pro Israel and pro Zionism.

1044
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,119
So I mean, and I'm just trying to figure out

1045
01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:09,440
exactly how to navigate the next how to navigate the

1046
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:17,039
next four eight, twelve years, because you know, people have that,

1047
01:07:17,199 --> 01:07:19,880
you know, people are Trump is just this gigantic Zietist.

1048
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,679
He's a Lakudnik, and I'm like, Trump's a boomer. He

1049
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,400
has Jewish friends, He's been dealing with Jews his whole life.

1050
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,639
He's been cheated by Jews and Jews have made him

1051
01:07:30,639 --> 01:07:32,760
a lot of money, and jess have gave him given

1052
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,079
him money. I don't believe that he thinks that like

1053
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:44,440
Israel is this place that has this this place in eschatology,

1054
01:07:44,519 --> 01:07:47,119
and that Jesus is going to come back because this place.

1055
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,199
But I think he sees it as as the way

1056
01:07:51,239 --> 01:07:55,400
most Boomers see it, Boomer truth, post war consensus. I mean,

1057
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:00,880
he's still panderous to black people that hate him. So

1058
01:08:01,199 --> 01:08:04,079
I mean, when it comes down to it, I don't

1059
01:08:04,119 --> 01:08:09,280
know how much dispensationalism actually means anymore. And I think

1060
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:13,159
it's I think that it's going away, that its influence

1061
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:19,039
is going away, But the political influence that was allowed

1062
01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:24,520
because of dispensationalism, that's not going away, and we're just

1063
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,520
going to have to figure out a way to navigate it.

1064
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,680
And eventually it's either going to die or die on

1065
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,159
its own, which I think that's exactly what's going to

1066
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:36,920
happen if you believe in the eighty year cycles coming

1067
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:38,760
up on eighty years in a couple of in a

1068
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,760
few years, or is just going to implode because that's

1069
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,840
what it is, what always happens. They always just reach

1070
01:08:48,119 --> 01:08:53,520
too far. So yeah, I mean, I don't have all

1071
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,880
the answers, but I think I have a you know,

1072
01:08:57,039 --> 01:09:00,560
I think that you know, at the Old Glory, we've

1073
01:09:01,119 --> 01:09:05,119
tried to figure out a way to navigate what's coming,

1074
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:08,920
and you know, the potential for things to come, and

1075
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:13,880
that's the collective eyes just like they do. And yeah,

1076
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,840
I mean that's the way the only way I really

1077
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:16,439
see forward.

1078
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good perspective there.

1079
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,359
Speaker 3: So I mean what you're saying is basically, I mean

1080
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,239
we're kind of living in a cultural dispensational kind of

1081
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,640
framework time where you know, politics are still looked through

1082
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,840
the lens of even if these boomers don't go to church,

1083
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,560
or you know, their kids don't go to churchies, values

1084
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,560
have been passed down somewhat mimetically to their children, especially

1085
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:45,600
if they're kind of in the DC Beltway, where they're

1086
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:52,600
still going to have kind of this overlay framework that

1087
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:54,840
they're going to still view everything. I think you kind

1088
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,359
of see this with guys, you know, on the app.

1089
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,239
I don't want to call them neocons. I think that

1090
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:03,760
that words. I mean, they kind of are, but at

1091
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,359
the same time they're not. But you kind of have

1092
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,359
this like multiple right factions where you've got the Libertarians,

1093
01:10:10,399 --> 01:10:15,079
you've got more of your dissident paleo alt right conservatives,

1094
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,119
and then you have this kind of like this this

1095
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:20,000
maga right, I guess you want to call it, where

1096
01:10:20,079 --> 01:10:22,399
you know, there's still you know, rapture ready, you know,

1097
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,760
at any moment. Now, you know, we're basically spared for

1098
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,520
the next four years as long as Trump's in office,

1099
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:33,000
and they're just you know, coasting it out right now

1100
01:10:33,039 --> 01:10:35,760
through the retirement. But like you said, if ten million

1101
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:39,319
of them, you know, pass away off the scene here

1102
01:10:39,359 --> 01:10:42,920
in the next I don't know, eight to ten years,

1103
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,760
that's going to really shape the start reshaping the kind

1104
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,760
of political landscape. I mean, you got to think the

1105
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:55,600
boomers have also basically controlled politics since they were a

1106
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,279
voting age. They've been the largest voting block and I

1107
01:10:58,319 --> 01:11:03,159
would say probably still the largest voting block of people

1108
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:06,279
that show up to actually vote at the polls. That's

1109
01:11:06,319 --> 01:11:11,199
one thing that they they usually don't miss is to

1110
01:11:11,239 --> 01:11:13,479
go out and vote. So I mean that's something that

1111
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,960
I can you know, I see that I don't really

1112
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:17,199
know what you want to call the kind of the

1113
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,000
maga right kind of people, but I mean there's there's

1114
01:11:21,039 --> 01:11:23,600
fracturing camps in there, and sometimes it seems like there's

1115
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,680
some kind of conservative effort in the last couple of

1116
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:33,359
weeks where it's like this, you know, undying loyalty to

1117
01:11:34,239 --> 01:11:38,039
you know, nineteen forty eight, the nineteen forty eight state,

1118
01:11:39,159 --> 01:11:42,560
and it's hard to kind of tell what direction that's

1119
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,239
going to shift, if it's going to you know, it's

1120
01:11:45,279 --> 01:11:46,760
a fight that we're going to have over the next

1121
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,399
for the next four years here with this administration.

1122
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 4: Internally within the right.

1123
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and you have all these factions on the right,

1124
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,560
and you know, if you study the Spanish Civil War,

1125
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:05,119
reason why they the Nationalists Franco side, you know, teaming

1126
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:08,960
with the Filongay and teaming with the Carlists were able

1127
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:14,800
to win and be cohesive is because they all basically

1128
01:12:15,199 --> 01:12:20,039
knew who the enemy was. They it was clear who

1129
01:12:20,079 --> 01:12:23,279
the enemy was. Problem you have what the factions on

1130
01:12:23,319 --> 01:12:28,239
the right is at this point, a lot of people

1131
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:31,600
look at the right and see the enemy embedded in

1132
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:37,600
the right. So it's like, how do the factions of

1133
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:43,439
the right come together when people look at the different

1134
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:49,359
factions and they don't trust each other. So either one

1135
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:51,920
of those factions is going to rise up and be

1136
01:12:52,119 --> 01:12:56,800
powerful and is going to you know, take over and

1137
01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:04,359
be the dominant group, or you're going to have to

1138
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:10,560
have some kind of Balkanization. And Yeah, whether it be

1139
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:15,279
the fact or desire, you're just not going to be

1140
01:13:15,359 --> 01:13:18,439
able to work together with people who that you just

1141
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:22,720
feel like you cannot trust. Yep, there aren't going to

1142
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,039
be I'm going to say this and it'll kiss people off.

1143
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,560
They're not going to be mass deportations back to Africa,

1144
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:33,960
They're not going to the United States. Is not going

1145
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,920
to be one oh nine or one ten. I think

1146
01:13:37,039 --> 01:13:39,560
I think Maldives just became one ten. It's not going

1147
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,399
to be one eleven. They're not even going to get

1148
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:47,119
the illegals that are here now are not going to

1149
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:54,920
be mass deported. It's not going to happen. So you're

1150
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,560
going to have to figure out how you're going to survive,

1151
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,520
how you and the people who you share your values

1152
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:08,119
with you're going to thrive and survive within this soup

1153
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,560
of hell. You have to go make your own heaven

1154
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:19,880
within it, because all of those fantasies you have are

1155
01:14:20,119 --> 01:14:24,520
just fantasies. They're the same fantasies libertarians have when they're like,

1156
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,199
you know, every country in the world just going to

1157
01:14:28,239 --> 01:14:31,840
adopt bitcoin is their reserve currency, or just end the

1158
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,239
state bro or just end the federal reserve, or just

1159
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:41,000
end end government schooling. Those are all fantasies. They're the

1160
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:45,880
same fantas those And when you're sitting there going, oh,

1161
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,760
we're sending them all back to Liberia. Oh we're deporting

1162
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,079
every Central American and South American out of here. Oh

1163
01:14:54,159 --> 01:15:00,159
we're deporting all the Indians. Oh we're deporting now. Sorry,

1164
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:04,439
sorry to burst your bubble. It's not gonna happen. You're

1165
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,159
gonna have to figure it out on your own. You're

1166
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,680
gonna have to figure it out with you. Start with yourself.

1167
01:15:11,319 --> 01:15:14,119
You strengthen yourself as much as possible, and then you

1168
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:16,560
look for like minded people and you figure out a

1169
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:21,079
way not only to survive, but to thrive. And until

1170
01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:25,920
you do that, all everything that you're everything that you

1171
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,079
have in your head about how this country is gonna

1172
01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:34,000
go back in time is just a fantasy. It's not

1173
01:15:34,079 --> 01:15:34,680
gonna happen.

1174
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, and hopefully the Old Glory Club can feel

1175
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,000
part of that niche. You know, you're not gonna get

1176
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:49,720
You're gonna get a hundred million people who join the

1177
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,720
Old Glory Club. You know, that's really not scalable, but

1178
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,399
it is sort of a stab in accomplishing that, getting

1179
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,640
people who are of a like mind, who have similar

1180
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:04,560
goals coming together and trying to build something. And you know,

1181
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,600
networking is one of you know, people love to hate

1182
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:09,439
on it because it's kind of a business buzzword, but

1183
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,319
networking is the way you start building a bigger project.

1184
01:16:15,239 --> 01:16:17,000
On that note, Pete, we thank you for coming and

1185
01:16:17,039 --> 01:16:19,119
speaking to us tonight. I know it's it's getting close

1186
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:21,960
to nine thirty, so we you just start winding down

1187
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,399
about this time. Do you have any final thoughts before

1188
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,760
we do our plugs and head out.

1189
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 2: No, no, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it,

1190
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:40,520
and you know, really think, start thinking realistically, start preparing hope,

1191
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:45,520
start preparing preparing for the worst, but also having a

1192
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:50,880
plan to thrive. There's no reason, you know, when when

1193
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:55,119
you look at when you look at oppressive regimes of

1194
01:16:55,159 --> 01:16:58,359
the past, especially the twentieth century, there were people who

1195
01:16:58,359 --> 01:17:01,439
were thriving in it. They were thriving in them why

1196
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:06,439
because they figured it out. Figure it out. Stop living

1197
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:10,239
in fantasy land. That's why I'm not. That's why I

1198
01:17:10,359 --> 01:17:16,159
had to leave libertarianism, because it's I saw it as

1199
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:27,039
wrongly a more like academic right wing, you know, have

1200
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:31,279
all the answers, be able to just say everybody sucks

1201
01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:34,520
and explain why and here's why you're wrong and everything.

1202
01:17:35,039 --> 01:17:38,279
None of that matters. What matters is what you can

1203
01:17:38,319 --> 01:17:40,960
do for yourself and what you can do for those

1204
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:47,880
that you share values with. Anything else is just it's

1205
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:52,439
just wish. It's you're hoping that somebody gets elected into Washington,

1206
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:57,920
DC and turns this whole thing upside down. I mean,

1207
01:17:58,039 --> 01:18:02,479
there's there's a ton of reasons why that's not going

1208
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,800
to happen, and we can do another space on that

1209
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:10,920
sometime and I'll go into some not only practical reasons,

1210
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:13,359
but some metaphysical reasons why that won't happen.

1211
01:18:17,359 --> 01:18:19,640
Speaker 1: Well, and that would be a good topic for another space.

1212
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,359
And it is good, and we thank you for bringing

1213
01:18:22,359 --> 01:18:25,680
a little dose of clarity towards the end. Yeah, people

1214
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,079
on the online right light to engage in fantasies, but

1215
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:32,479
fantasies are counterproductive, really just an active waste of time,

1216
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,239
and so it's good to be a level headed about it.

1217
01:18:35,279 --> 01:18:38,640
I get discouraged to be level headed and then you know,

1218
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,720
being an adult, make responsible decisions for you and then

1219
01:18:42,279 --> 01:18:43,640
those around you to the best you can.

1220
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's not black it's not black pilling. It's

1221
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:53,640
figuring out what the reality of it is and then

1222
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,039
just saying, Okay, this is what I need Now, I

1223
01:18:56,079 --> 01:18:58,439
know what I need to do. The hardest part is

1224
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,560
figuring out knowing what she needs to do. You just

1225
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:02,560
have to figure that out.

1226
01:19:03,279 --> 01:19:05,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, black pilling is just about giving up.

1227
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,000
That's really all it is. Being realistic is the first

1228
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,079
step in just being a grown up really at the

1229
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:16,399
end of the day. And I mean we just you know,

1230
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,399
and people on the right, you know, we do need

1231
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,319
to ask movement kind of grow up, so to speak.

1232
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,000
Like I was saying, hopefully the AGC plays an important

1233
01:19:24,039 --> 01:19:27,640
role in that. I'm confident it is. That's why I

1234
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,800
joined this Wire Officer joined all our members joined, you know,

1235
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:35,199
hoping to make a meaningful difference in our state and

1236
01:19:35,199 --> 01:19:36,560
then in the country as a whole.

1237
01:19:39,039 --> 01:19:42,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that I think we're down the

1238
01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:47,720
right path for that. And yeah, the one thing I

1239
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,840
hear is, well, what are you guys doing well if

1240
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,279
you're not. If you're not in the club, we're not going.

1241
01:19:53,119 --> 01:19:53,600
Speaker 1: To tell you.

1242
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 2: Sorry.

1243
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's the whole point, and join us instead.

1244
01:19:57,720 --> 01:19:58,359
You'll find out.

1245
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, gentlemen, I appreciate it.

1246
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, before we go, we do have some plugs.

1247
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:11,399
As is becoming our tradition, we do ask that you

1248
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:17,239
follow this week's guest. We have Pete at at Peter

1249
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:21,479
r Kes that is his ex handle. Also, we had

1250
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,199
a guest speak up Ronald Dodson. That's at ron Dodson.

1251
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:27,399
We recommend you followed him as well. Of course we

1252
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:31,079
recommend you follow the nngs that's at O, B, E,

1253
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:36,159
D T st N. Of course you can follow the

1254
01:20:36,199 --> 01:20:39,760
officers as well. For membership inquiries, we do ask that

1255
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,079
you reach out to us either at the Nathaniel Green

1256
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:44,840
Society at protimail dot com. You can also DM our

1257
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:47,520
account if you would like to, but the email is easier,

1258
01:20:48,399 --> 01:20:50,600
or if you are not North Carolina you'd like to

1259
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,760
learn more about the Old Glory Club, please go to

1260
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,880
the Old Glory Club at gmail dot com. Also, we

1261
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,199
would like to plug our OGC affiliate out, which is

1262
01:20:59,239 --> 01:21:01,720
the Nicotine. I've had them and they are very good

1263
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:05,000
and everyone I've heard speak of them speaks highly of them,

1264
01:21:05,159 --> 01:21:11,279
so please buy out. And finally, we do want to

1265
01:21:11,279 --> 01:21:13,359
wish you a good evening. We'll be back at eight

1266
01:21:13,359 --> 01:21:15,760
pm next week, same time, and we'll have more good

1267
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,039
guests and more good topics, so thank you. And if

1268
01:21:18,079 --> 01:21:19,880
for offsers of anything they want to add, go ahead,

1269
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,359
but if not, I think we'll go in head out