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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome. This is do you postage profit

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together Life with as announced. I'm not thirty eight minutes late.

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What are you talking about? I deleted this? Yeah, anyway,

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Life with David Wood and Jane Dy are together for

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the very first time. M Hello, everybody, what's up? And

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how is everybody doing?

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Speaker 2: David? What's up?

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Speaker 1: And Jay? How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: David?

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Speaker 1: Nobody, guys, you're always Yeah, Jay, how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good. I've had a good time kind of

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collecting some sources together. And I'll go ahead and tell

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you that I only have two sources for the day,

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because you guys are convinced I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist.

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It's the Illuminati card game. I mean, it's just those

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two cards. So that's my proof that everything is a

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new world order Illuminati conspiracy. And I have the Savings

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Alone card, which is the key to everything, and then

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the science fiction fans who are the tool of the Illuminati.

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So there's my proofs and do it.

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Speaker 1: Well with that, we can already call it. Yeah, that's awesome.

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That's awesome. So here's the thing. Oh, David, how are

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you doing?

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Speaker 2: Oh good? I'm still sending out the link. I just

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had to look up good Fantastic.

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Speaker 1: So the funny thing is everybody has been waiting for

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this live stream, and everybody wants us to go live,

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and I guess they want to they want us to

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start fighting or something. So I was originally planning on

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or just having a peaceful conversation and making peace with

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each other and be nice and all that. But since

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people are expecting a fight, I think we need to.

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Speaker 2: Fight or or a pay you could you could be

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the nice guy and then I'll just you give me

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a signal when you want me to set things off.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'll do I'll do this, I'll do this.

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Speaker 2: We'll call that the drama twirl.

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Speaker 3: Mustache.

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Speaker 2: So it is.

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Speaker 1: So to be very honest, I don't even know what

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we're what we're supposed to talk, but we're supposed to

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be talking about. But so what what actually happened in

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the in the background, behind the scenes after we did

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that live stream and you know, we talked here, I

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messaged No, you messaged me actually, and I mean we

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message each other and we kind of, uh behind the

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scenes in few words, made peace and yeah, go ahead, sorry.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, first thing, I think, yeah, I did get

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impatient with you publicly on Twitter tweets back and forth,

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So I do apologize for that. I think I could

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have been a lot better in terms of how I

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handled that situation. So, and you know, we both were

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kind of interacting with Father Michael lill or Lily Uh.

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So you know, he had some words to say about

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trying to seek for peace. So I appreciate that from him,

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and I think he's right. So you are listed as

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the most humble guy, So I think you've got some

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humility awards this last year from the Jesus Committee of

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the Internet. Right, Okay, So I'm gonna go ahead and

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just say that I'm being serious. I was. I was impatient.

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I don't disagree with any of the takes that I had,

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but I do think that I shouldn't have been as

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impatient with you because you and I have always pretty

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much had a good back and forth. We've never really

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had DM disagreements or public disagreements, but maybe on some

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of these geopolitical or historical issues we might come to

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some loggerheads. But I would just say, you know, if

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if I say something that sounds outlandish or crazy, you know,

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at least lest I at least have some reason why

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I think so I could be wrong about that, and

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I will say too that I respect both of you guys.

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Is breath of information and knowledge that you have in

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regards to Islam, the Quran, history of Islam, you guys

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are way beyond me in that field. So I defer

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to you guys on that topic. I think there's other

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areas that I've put a lot of time and effort into,

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particularly with my grad work with you, politics and psychological warfare,

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that I think could inform some of that. But I

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also have a pretty you know, interest, pretty deep interest

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in Orthodox theology too, So if it's history of Islam,

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you guys are probably going to know a lot more

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than me. But I think on some of these other

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topics I think I could speak to that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I I came to you to

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ask you questions, to learn stuff from you in private

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about about about Orthodoxy, about Christianity. So it's it's quite

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clear that I will also publicly express this that I

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have that I have respect for your knowledge and respect

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for the stuff that you have studied and and all that,

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So I I similarly have respect in that in that

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regard I know David is smirking right now because he's

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trying to fight or something. I don't know, but uh,

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but I I have had that respect for you as well,

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and and I did apologize to you in private. And

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I also want to publicly state that I think I

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handle the situation in a very wrong way because I

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also easily got carried away and started saying nasty stuff

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when I saw some hostility from your side. I guess

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I kind of easily went down a very bad path

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and started getting nasty as well, and then start later

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regretted that and that that's why I actually contacted Father H.

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Lilly and and and and asked him to basically ask

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him if he could jump in and fix this, you know,

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help fix this. And he he, he was so kind

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to actually immediately respond to me and to immediately do that.

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So very thankful to him. And he did and and

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the results were very nice. So I did I did

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act wrongfully as well, and I want to apologize for that.

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I also over the last I have to say, over

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the last months, over the last weeks, there were times

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with me going through different changes and uh, you know,

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religiosity and my perspective on things where I guess I'm

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starting a new perspective, I'm going down a new path,

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and I'm I'm suddenly encountering lots of people who have

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who have huge difficulties with stuff that I say, and

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I have huge difficulties with things that they say. And

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I started fighting with lots of people that I didn't

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think I would be fighting with in the Orthodox sphere

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and the Christian spheres and all that. So I have

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to say much of that was a was a very

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very big mistake. And if I could go back now,

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I would tell myself to just be quiet and you know,

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not comment on everything.

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Speaker 3: I took on MATS today, So I won't be Yeah,

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So I want to say it's not all the time,

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It's okay.

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Speaker 1: So I also want to say that I have been

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acting arrogantly about things, but I've recently kind of come

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to this whole conclusion that I just that I don't

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really that that I can that I need to stop.

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I said a lot and I just up and just

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start listening a little bit more. But yeah, so sorry

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to you about all that. And I think we don't

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need to we need all that fight because I've always

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had respect for you. We always had had friendly interactions

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and although although you say things that I disagree with,

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where you are clearly wrong and I'm clearly right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, anyway, end of argument.

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Speaker 1: Right, anyway, thanks for watching everybody, Well.

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Speaker 3: I would say so, yeah, I mean I appreciate that,

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and I mean I've I've got a lot of books

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and sources out. I'm ready to go to any topic

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that you think is controversial if you want to cover it.

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I've got the whole history of the Rothschild family ready

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to go. If you want to talk about modern lecu

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geopolitical stances, I'm ready to talk about that. As you know,

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I don't agree with the trend online to default into

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following or loving tiny mustache man. I think that's becoming

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a dangerous and I don't think that anything in the

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philosophy of fascism in general is very amenable to Christianity

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at all. So I don't take that position of, you know,

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wanting to defend the Reich or something like that. I

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think all that's kind of silly. I had a pretty

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extensive five hour debate with a bunch of those people

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the other day, and it was very similar to what

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I found in a lot of other domains. When you

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debate this stuff is a lot of people just don't

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really know the history in general, and so they're kind

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of being propagandized. And that's happening with people I guess

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you could say far right. I kind of think it

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might be engineered and people are pushing this idea. So

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I don't agree with tiny mustache man. I don't agree

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with a Malthusianism or eugenics or social Darwinism or any

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of those positions that you think.

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Speaker 1: But he was a good speaker, wasn't he.

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Speaker 3: I guess, I mean, I don't if you find optics

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like that, you know, convincing, maybe.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, ye. So this has come out come up

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a lot over the last months, and I kind of

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fought with lots of people over that. That's one of

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those things like where we have a disagreement. Like you said,

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you said, you think it's an op, the whole Hitler thing,

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and well, I was where I was kind of responding

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to it. I also commented on Live and I said,

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it's it's not an op. It's just a very popular thing.

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So but you think that there was a push off.

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Speaker 3: Well, to be clear, what I argued, what we What

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we opened up in that debate was whether or not

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it is. So I'm asking the question. I don't have

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direct proof for evidence that there is some entity that

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funds that or pushes that. It's possible. I think that,

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for example, Yay Kanye Like, his actions and his approach

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is very questionable. He has been visited by FEDS, he

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has been investigated at certain levels. That doesn't mean that

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he's an asset or that he's pushing things per se.

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He could just be capitalizing on it for his brand

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being edgy. He may really be committed to these views,

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or he may actually I mean, and I don't mean

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this in a derogatory way, he may actually have, you know,

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some mental issues, mental pin So I think that all

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those things are possible. But I have put a lot

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of time into studying the way that power blocks can

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utilize radical movements. And I don't believe that every radical

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movement is controlled or that everything is a conspiracy, but

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I do think that there is the reality of controlled opposition.

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There is the reality of groups being manufactured and created

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for many purposes, for honey pods, honey traps, to make

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people look bad, and there's a lot of different reasons

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why those things can be created. You know, co Intel

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pro is a very famous example of that. And I'm

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not saying that the sixties counterculture stuff is all good.

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A lot of that I think had a lot of

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people who were propped up, but there's a reality to it,

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and I think, you know, if you want to talk

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about Islam, a good example of this is the Muslim

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Ohood its earliest proponents, like alf Ghani, he was pretty

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pretty clearly a British agent. He was very into pushing

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the British Imperial Mandate of what they called it. That

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so I'm a Pan Arab alliance and the idea was

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to create an Islam that Britain could control. So I

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don't believe that like radical Islam is an invention of

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the British Empire. I think that Islam has always been radical,

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and that's a position that I think.

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Speaker 2: Very much.

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Speaker 3: I've learned more about, Like ten years ago, I probably

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wouldn't have I didn't know much about that, but I've

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gotten deeper into that. But I think alf Ghani and

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his coterie underneath him were all very suspicious, and it

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makes perfect sense why the British Empire wanted to do that,

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and it had to do with the Ottoman Empire and

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the challenge that they had. And as the Ottoman Empire waned,

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you had the Sykes Peako Agreement where they divide the

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Middle East up according to British and French plans. So

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the idea was if you could control Mecca and Medina.

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And this is why I think I'm mention this. Maybe

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you in passing on Twitter or something. Maybe it was

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a year or so ago. It might not have been you,

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I don't remember, but I said something about al Husseini,

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the guy that was the Grand Mouftip, that was the

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British imperial creation. And the reason that I said he

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worked for British intelligence was because even after he had

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gotten in trouble and fled to Germany and ended up back,

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I think in the UK he was openly working for

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British intelligence five and I can give you all the

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sources for this stuff. Now, whether that means that he

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was always in that capacity, I don't know, but I

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think he ended up being a useful agitation tool that

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the British eventually had a handle on. And again that

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makes sense with what the British wanted to do in

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these regions. So I'm not saying that everybody's a spy

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or everybody's controlled, but there are key figures that are

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Like Saint John Philby, he becomes Solafi. That's a suspicious conversion.

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Did he really believe that stuff or was he just

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working on behalf of the British Empire? You know T Lawrence,

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he's gay, He goes in, he does all these operations,

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He helps set up you know, the Salads as basically

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controlling Saudi Arabia. Gertrude Bell, she's another British spy. She

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goes in, she sets up Iraq basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the Mufti Husseini, he was, he was brought to

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his position under the guise of or under the pretense

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or the reasoning that the Brits had to had to

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jump in and fix something because something with the succession

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of the of the next move he went wrong. So

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they appointed him to kind of to fix that, but

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it wasn't really a good solution. Eventually they had to

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supposedly on the surface, punish him for his extreme attitudes

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and his association with the radical Islamic violence against Jews

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and all that, and then they had to kick him

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out of there, and then he ended up becoming a

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friend of Mussolini and of Hitler, who then promised him

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that that he would be Hitler's number one guy and

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they would together once they're done with the Soviets and

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the Brits, they would then together take out the Jews

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and he would be the number one representative of the

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Arabs and Muslims and all that. So there are some

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really really crazy stuff going on if you want to

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go into that.

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Speaker 3: My source on this is the Royal and Supernational Affairs.

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They have a researcher who I think is just a

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good geopolitical researcher. You can take issue with his politics.

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I don't agree with all his politics, but it's a

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really important book called Secret Affairs Britain's Collusion with Radical

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is on. It's very well sourced and his argument is

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that towards the end in nineteen forty six, Husseini began

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to work for the British once again after all of

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the bff with Himler. Sources suggests that he was employed

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by the Arab news agency originally set up by six

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as a front in Cairo to spread British propaganda in

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the region. This is what becomes Al Jazeera, so I

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six actually set up Arab News, which becomes Alda zero.

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So this is also the shady origins of the Muslim Brotherhood.

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Halsong albuma Na was again like another one of these

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figures who didn't seem to take Islam that seriously.

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Speaker 1: He was a secular But would you agree that it

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was basically like the British. It was more like instead

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of playing a long game by the British, it was

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rather just a tool, as you just really mentioned, to

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kind of mess with the Ottoman Empire and to take

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it down and then to kind of assert control in

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the region through these through these means. But they only

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used what was already available, so they didn't really create

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the whole you know, Islamic radicalism.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just saying that the organization called Muslim Brotherhood

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utilized the ideology of a radical Islamic sort of cover veneer,

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even if the Ali Ghani and Albanah themselves didn't actually

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believe it. So yes, there was already radical Islam for sure,

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I mean you know today, I mean this book even

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has a really good critique of like the billions of Dollars,

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So he wrote this book for the Royal Society back

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and even back then he was talking about how just

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Saudi Arabia, for example, has put I think like fifty

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billion dollars up to twenty ten into promoting Islam in

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the West, so that would include schools, radical mosques. So

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this is not a person pro Islam. He's very critical

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of the establishments usage and attempt to sort of steer it.

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But his argument at the very beginning, and it's the

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same argument that Dreyfus makes in his book Doubles Game.

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He argues that the idea was the British Empire early

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on that if you could create a Mecca and a

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Medina underneath British control as the Ottomans waned, the British

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Empire could control Islam and then you would have massive,

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you know power. And I went very well, yeah, I

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think this also explains why you have even today, you know,

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Prince Charles, King Charles, you know, he has this ongoing

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fascination not just with all religions, and he's kind of

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a perennialist.

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Speaker 1: But did people say he says he's secretly a Muslim.

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Speaker 3: I looked into that and all I could find was

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that he's been given awards from different Sufi groups and orders,

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and he's given money to Sufi orders. But I couldn't

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find any hard evidence that he actually was inducted into

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any Sufi orders, or he could be a secret you know,

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Muslim convert or something. But he definitely favors the perennialism

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of Sufism and to some degree, Islam. But I'm just

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saying he's a reflection of this, you know, split amongst

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the British aristocracy going back one hundred plus years, where

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even quickly admits that they were split between you had

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half of them, like the Astors were anti Zionist, and

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then you had half of the elite in Britain. Rodshaw's

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were eventually pro Zionists. But I will concede to you

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there is one point you're correct about. The Rochels were

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not you and latterly Zionists in fact were split only one. Well,

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I didn't disagree with that one. But I've got biography

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over here.

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Speaker 1: Uh no, none of them. I'm saying only one point

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that I'm right on.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm said to date, that's what so far. Yeah,

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there's a great book that I came across some years back.

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It's called the Rothchilds about John Roberts, and it's just

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a mainline biography of the family.

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Speaker 1: That's all very good. But the thing is people are

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asking why we do not why we don't screaming at

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each other and David, why are you smiling the insurren

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what is?

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Speaker 3: What is? David got the secret? Like he's going to

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bring the nukes on me here in a minute, he's

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just waking.

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Speaker 2: I came here for a proper mubaha, and then we're

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just we're the best buddies in the world.

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Speaker 1: Does you even know what I'm about?

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Speaker 3: Is? Do you know? What?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: What you see? That's where we state our positions and

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we call on God to well, we call on Allah

356
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to curse whoever wrong and then that person will be

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destroyed over the next year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what That's what Muhammad did when he was

359
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told that he's wrong, he said, uh, let us, let

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us uh, let's gather and then invoke a law to

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punish whoever is wrong. So that's what they do. It's

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kind of like a it's kind of like an Islamic

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like an Arab version of a duel, like uh oh

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a duel, Yeah, like a duel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, prayer if you just come up, it will be

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prayer duel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you do in his duel?

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Speaker 2: You just do it?

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Speaker 3: But with guns or sumpters? Like, what do we use there?

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Speaker 2: No, it's a law. A law will a law will

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take care of that. Yeah, you had then, Yeah, you say,

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here's here's my position, and then you write down what

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your position is, and that we say and we agree.

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We agree that God is going to curse the person

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who is wrong in such and such ways within the

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next such and such time.

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Speaker 1: So but back to back to the guy with the

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little mustache. I know that when you when you made

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a post about about how this is not acceptable, and

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you even said, uh, I found this very impressive, and

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I actually did comment on it when I when I

382
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first saw it, you said we were supposed to love,

383
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love juice and love everyone or or not hate anybody,

384
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or something like that. And then uh, I saw people

385
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coming after you, people coming at you and saying that

386
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you got the call, or that you are that you

387
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have gone woke, or something like that. But it is

388
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kind of weird because I have been under attack by

389
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,000
many people who claim to be on kind of on

390
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your side of things. But but I also don't see

391
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,759
you as like as somebody who is anti Jewish or

392
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,559
anti Semitic, or or or pro pro pro mustache guy.

393
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So it does make me wonder where in the world

394
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that all of that comes from. And I see, like

395
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when I went through your responses on that post, and

396
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it was like one of the most active comment sections

397
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on your page that I've ever seen. People were going

398
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:18,440
nuts about how the h men is actually good and

399
00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:22,000
you misunderstanding things and you are lying and all that.

400
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Speaker 3: Well. I think that from the Orthodox Christian perspective, we

401
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:32,000
have a unique take on the state and politics. So

402
00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:35,480
it's not our primary focus. It shouldn't be, but I

403
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,039
think we do have a traditional perspective that's been outlined

404
00:22:39,079 --> 00:22:42,680
by a lot of you know, famous Russian statesmen or

405
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,960
famous theologians or historians. You've got Yvon Illen, You've got

406
00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:50,119
Pabinaziev who wrote Reflections of a Russian Statesman, and you

407
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don't find anything to do with fascism. Again, I think

408
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,680
it's pretty I mean, I attend the Russian Orthodox Church,

409
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so nobody in the Russian Orthodox Church is gonna like

410
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:01,160
tiny mustache men, because they still Celebratectory Day where they

411
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,000
where the Nazis didn't win. And my Priests has a

412
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lot of interesting stories about when the Nazis came into

413
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Russia and they would loot the churches and they're actually

414
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their excuse was, well, we're preserving it, so you know,

415
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,640
we don't trust you to preserve your wealth. We're going

416
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000
to loot it, We're going to take it. So it's

417
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:28,920
actually the alternative versions of history in the twentieth century

418
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that got me to where I never thought fascism or

419
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:39,440
communism where that appealing. I just found other alternative approaches

420
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more convincing. Again, and now I admit that my position

421
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:45,559
is an outlier, but I think the traditional Orthodox position

422
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,640
is monarchy, a Christian monarch. It doesn't mean that an

423
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,400
Orthodox person has the goal of trying to create an

424
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Orthodox monarchy. That's not very relevant, it's not very pragmatic.

425
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:58,799
But I think that's the traditional position. And you know,

426
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:00,519
if you look at the rise of mosse Selini and

427
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,440
people like, you know, the fascists, they didn't like the monarchy.

428
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,680
They hated the monarchy. They wanted to get rid of

429
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,200
anything that's smacked of the traditional regime. In the Mussolini's case,

430
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because he was originally just a straight up socialist who

431
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,119
then became a fascist. So to me, it seems odd

432
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,359
that people would want to defend that. I think it's

433
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,839
a lot more just lat point, it's a lot more

434
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,599
amenable to the traditional Catholic world, where I think you're

435
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,480
going to find a lot of people who who feel

436
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:32,200
that various Vatican concordotts and whatnot, you know, Vindicator back

437
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:34,880
up fascism. You know, we have even an Orthodox Church.

438
00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:39,880
It's Stepanoch that Rome considers a saint or a blessed

439
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,240
and he, you know, is guilty of murdering a whole

440
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lot of Orthodox Christians. So nobody in Serbia is going

441
00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:51,000
to ever agree to that guy being a saint. But

442
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,759
that's still the official Roman Catholic position. So so I

443
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think that fascism has a tendency amongst tradcats for sure,

444
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and it has a tendency of angst maybe some sectors

445
00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:05,680
of young disaffected Orthodox guys. But I've never been a

446
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:07,799
fan of that, never never promoted I always thought it

447
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:08,599
was kind of silly.

448
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Speaker 1: You have already upset the growers. Now they're going to

449
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be completely mad about what Ages said.

450
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Speaker 3: So well, I mean, I've spent five hours arguing with

451
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,359
their whole position and ropers. Well, one of the reasons

452
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,839
I don't agree with that is that there's pretty substantial

453
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evidence that even in mainline history, that World War One

454
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and World War Two had multiple objectives for why they

455
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,519
were done. One of those objectives World War One was

456
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,279
the League of Nations, and so you need these big

457
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:42,240
wars to have the justification for global policing entities like

458
00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:45,279
the League of Nations. And when that failed, there was

459
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:48,480
World War Two, which was supposed to justify the United Nations.

460
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,519
And that's Quickly's overall thesis. You can agree or disagree.

461
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:55,359
Quickly is not a conspiracy writer. He's a cfr archivist historian.

462
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:58,160
He's the mentor to Bill Clinton. I'm not saying he's

463
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,480
a good guy. I'm saying that he's kind of an

464
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established smid sort of ad mission type of person. And

465
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,000
that's his take. That's also Stratford's take. Stratford argues that

466
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,920
World War One or World War Two and the Cold

467
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,160
War really about kind of exhausting challenges to the Atlantis's

468
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,359
power block. So for me, that kind of just diffuses

469
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:21,680
dispels the sort of mythologies that people want when it

470
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:28,519
comes to adopting radical political action, whether communist or fascist, well.

471
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Speaker 1: It also doesn't make sense considering just a religious aspect

472
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:37,599
of it. What drew me into the Orthodox Church as

473
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:40,680
I was approaching it, So as I was looking at it,

474
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I was first going toward Catholicism and was kind of

475
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exploring that, and the last thing that I was actually

476
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,599
considering was was the Orthodox Church. But then what what

477
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:50,799
kind of changed my mind on things and gave me

478
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,680
the idea that I have a big misunderstanding about it

479
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,599
and then drew me closer to it was actually, uh,

480
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,680
you know certain saints that were that are that are

481
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,359
canon in the Orthodox Church who are saints because they

482
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,160
fought against the Nazis and they were murdered by the

483
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:12,519
Nazis or they they helped Holocaust victims and were murdered

484
00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:17,480
as a result. Alexanderch Morale, you have Saint Marie of Paris,

485
00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:21,839
Dmitry Klippini, and you have others in Bulgaria and so on.

486
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:28,039
So and then I see official statements made by the

487
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,720
Russian Orthodox Church, among the others, that are quite explicitly

488
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:40,599
opposed to the Nazi ideology, to the Nazi history, and

489
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960
anything that has anything to do to do with that.

490
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,039
And then you have the aspect of Hitler that he

491
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:54,400
was very explicitly, very clearly against Christianity according to his closest, closest,

492
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,000
most trusted people, according to to Gebbels himself. He says,

493
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,960
the fear Or is deeply, deeply religious, but he hates Christianity.

494
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,680
H he sees it as a as a as a

495
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,000
branch of the Jewish race, he says, which is directly

496
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:10,759
from his diary.

497
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 3: So I have the m K over there, the dreaded

498
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,160
m K book. I won't get it out, but there's

499
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,759
a you know, pretty significant sections where he says that

500
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,119
Christianity was always too radical in terms of being against paganism,

501
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,839
and he said that what he would have preferred was

502
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,440
if Christianity could be a vehicle for Germanic paganism to

503
00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:37,680
synthesize with what he considered Christianity. There's other speeches I

504
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,279
read to where Hitler talks about the the God of

505
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,680
the Old Testament being essentially a different God and he

506
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:46,599
could never accept that which is in the Christian christ theology.

507
00:28:46,599 --> 00:28:50,480
That's Martianism. So there's no way to have Marsianism in Christianity.

508
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:54,799
So yeah, And also in in m K he says

509
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,039
that it's his his job. His plan is to continue

510
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,160
the eugenics and steriles policies that the Kaiser already had

511
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,799
in place, and there's no way that a Christian could

512
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,880
adopt those kinds of positions. So yeah, I've always thought

513
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,440
those you know, those are.

514
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: Started rounding people up and putting them into invents and

515
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,400
casting them to death, considering them not worthy of life

516
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,000
and all that, which is pretty messed up. You can't

517
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:22,440
possibly make peace with such an idea with a Christian worldview.

518
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,279
That's that's really really it really goes beyond anything that

519
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:26,920
is acceptable.

520
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: Well that's in Alphusianism. And so to agree with the

521
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,400
position of Malthus, the Anglican minister who believed that it

522
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,640
was necessary to depopulate because he looked at some flies

523
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,440
in a jar and he said, well, if the flies

524
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,000
are limited with their resources, it's the same with humans.

525
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:46,279
Limited resources requires us to depopulate. So those are famous

526
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,720
essays out of England, and he was, you know, a

527
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:54,920
hardcore social Darwinist type proponent. Those ideas influenced people not

528
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,960
just in the UK, but also in Germany and the

529
00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:01,200
Kaiser's policies were already the around eugenics. That's why in

530
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,960
America you had a flip side version of that where

531
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,480
the rock Fillers set up the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and

532
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,200
they named it after him because it was all about

533
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,240
population control and eugenics. So yeah, the fundamentals there I

534
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,839
certainly don't work with Christianity, but I also agree that

535
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:21,119
the fundamentals of communism, socialism, vultualism, none of those work

536
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,519
with Christianity either.

537
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: And they were both enemies. I mean, the Soviet Union

538
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:28,759
was very very clear in there. This is actually a

539
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:32,759
funny thing, a funny anecdote. When I was in Turkey

540
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,519
and I was kind of in my late youth being

541
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,720
in rebellion, there was a time where I was I

542
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:44,960
was a big fan of hardcore revolutionary communism. But the

543
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:50,079
funny thing is I also learned Islamic belief from my parents,

544
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,400
and despite not being like practicing very much, I had

545
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,599
deep respect for it and I wasn't ever like strictly

546
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,039
opposed to it. But I was kind of trying to

547
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:06,440
reconcile my respect for Islam with communism and it didn't

548
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,400
work out. Eventually, I came across a little back and

549
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,039
forth that was constructed by taking a quote directly from Lenin,

550
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:24,160
and one of those quotes was in response to how

551
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,400
the question of religion should be solved, considering that so

552
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:29,720
much of the population is clearly religious, and you can't

553
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,720
just outright attack religion. So his solution to that was

554
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:37,759
to ease the population into it and to give them

555
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:41,799
good things in order to then replace their need for religion,

556
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,160
and to eventually then fulfill the goal of shutting down

557
00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:49,920
the useless, you know, churches and places of worship, and

558
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,680
then altogether getting rid of it because it's just a

559
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,119
poison and so on. So I thought, this is that.

560
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,680
That's when when I saw it explicitly, I thought, okay,

561
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,519
you know what, I just have to admit that I

562
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:04,480
can't really reconcile these things. And they were also very

563
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,079
clear and hunting down and directly torturing, locking up and

564
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:19,039
executing clergy, making up nonsensical excuses and torturing people, torturing priests,

565
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:24,480
killing them and then dumping them at night in random

566
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:29,759
places and burying them to prevent people from knowing where

567
00:32:29,799 --> 00:32:32,200
they are buried, and venerating them and so on. The

568
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,559
Soviets were pretty pretty messed up in pretty brutal towards religion,

569
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,119
and the Nazis had a similar idea. According to Gibbels's diaries,

570
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,680
the Hitler was trying to keep him in the Catholic

571
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:49,160
Church and was himself trying to appease the Christian population

572
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,680
with the intention to once the war is over, to

573
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,799
directly take over the church and to subvert it and

574
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,000
then suppress it from within directly and turn it towards

575
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:04,559
a tool of arianism, for example, because even according to

576
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:08,920
the Hitler's book, mind come, sorry, we're directed saying it,

577
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,559
but uh, there's also one of one of his critiques

578
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:17,359
of Christianity or of the Christian churches is that they

579
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,000
spend too much time with doctrine instead of uh, instead

580
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,319
of interfering in the racial bastardization and and and trying

581
00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:29,000
to separate the blacks from the whites, because.

582
00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:35,839
Speaker 3: The original sin in this world is to taint the blood. Yeah,

583
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,720
which isn't what original sin is. But I think he's,

584
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,799
like you're saying, he's appropriating concepts that are Christian theological

585
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:46,400
concepts and saying, let's put this into you know, my system.

586
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,680
I'll use some of the same terminology. But yeah, I

587
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,480
mean I've got it over there. I don't know if

588
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:52,759
that would be don't want to get your channel in

589
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:55,599
trouble by pulling that out, but I've got to I've

590
00:33:55,599 --> 00:33:57,599
got it all mark that with all that pretty sure.

591
00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:01,119
Speaker 1: I've shown it several times here, so it has become

592
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:02,519
a joke here as well.

593
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,279
Speaker 3: Can I one thing I would like to touch on

594
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,880
that we were kind of disagreeing on earlier in the

595
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,719
Roberts book on the history of the family of the Rothschilds,

596
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,559
there is back in the late eighteen hundreds, it was

597
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:17,639
actually Edmund, and I'm not saying Walter didn't have a

598
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,880
role later on with the declaration, but it was Edmund

599
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,800
who was the main benefactor, who was not himself Zionist.

600
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,000
In fact, he wanted to simply buy land from the

601
00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:33,039
Ottoman Sultan in Palestine. Wait.

602
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:36,039
Speaker 1: Edmund was the one who was directly in the field

603
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:37,440
and who helped build stuff.

604
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:37,599
Speaker 2: Right.

605
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he went and was a lot of time there,

606
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:44,559
and yeah he bought he revitalized the land with massive

607
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,400
purchases back in the eighteen hundreds. So this is prior

608
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,480
to political Zionism, prior to the passon Hertzel and he

609
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:55,679
went under the name at the time of Nadev Hayuta

610
00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:58,559
because he didn't want to be publicly known, but eventually

611
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:00,400
it was known, and then you can also so if

612
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,719
you go to the Rothchild's archive, the family archive, if

613
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,639
you read his bio, the first few pages just talks

614
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:09,360
about the millions of dollars that he had put into

615
00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:17,280
revitalizing and what's interesting to your point, Partially Hurtzel and

616
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,880
Weizmann and other others wanted him to be committed to

617
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,199
political Zionism, but he was not ready to make that

618
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,239
commitment yet. However, later members of the family did have

619
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,920
a political commitment. So I think the truth is kind

620
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,199
of somewhere in between that the family wasn't completely unified

621
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,480
on a political expansion. They were not forcibly taking land.

622
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:43,519
They were purchasing it from the Ottoman Sultan. So if

623
00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:46,719
people want to have or lay blame it's you could well,

624
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,599
why is the automn in sultan sultan selling the land? Right?

625
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,159
I think that peacefully, right, go ahead.

626
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,119
Speaker 1: The thing with the Rocheld is also that just like

627
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,800
most Jews in the beginnings, when the whole idea of

628
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,719
political Zionism was proposed, they didn't really take it seriously

629
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,440
and they didn't think it was actually viable, so they

630
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,159
didn't want to They didn't take it seriously and didn't

631
00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:13,480
want to jump into it and explicitly support it because

632
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:16,039
they thought it was a ridiculously ridiculous idea that will

633
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:20,880
fail anyway. So which kind of explains why, especially these

634
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,760
two members later on jumped in and started becoming so

635
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,199
you know, having favorable views of it and working with it.

636
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, by the twentieth century, the this biography notes and

637
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:36,960
then also the entry under Walter at the Rothchild's archives

638
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:43,679
does concede that eventually they became very committed Zionus, even

639
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,159
to the point of the Rothchild family donated the Knesset

640
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,559
building and created in the nineteen thirties, twenties and thirties,

641
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:55,000
excuse me, the JCA or the Pika, which was the

642
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,559
billit the organizations in Palestine and in France that would

643
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:04,239
help to foster various Aliahs to come to Israel. So

644
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,119
I think that's the reality is somewhere in between. It's

645
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:11,320
not on either or, but I think eventually it does

646
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,000
become clearly a project of the British Empire.

647
00:37:14,679 --> 00:37:18,159
Speaker 1: The funny thing is, now we're talking about this because

648
00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:19,800
this is where we had a disagreement on where we

649
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,840
started fighting. But in the end, it's not even that

650
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,079
big of a matter, honestly, Like I don't even care

651
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:30,760
that much about it, especially.

652
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 3: Especially for some reason committed to this. I don't know, no,

653
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:36,480
especially right now.

654
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: At that time, I just I saw something that you

655
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,960
posted and I thought, Okay, this is wrong. I want

656
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,920
to correct this. So that's all that's all I wanted

657
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,039
to do. And then we started fighting and it escalated,

658
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,760
and I took it very very seriously, and we went

659
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,039
very hard at it. But thinking about it in the aftermath,

660
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,599
it was just like one issue that I wanted to

661
00:37:57,599 --> 00:37:59,960
correct in the moment or say something about in the moment,

662
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:02,159
and it's not It's not something that I really cared

663
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:06,239
that much about, you know. So this is the problem

664
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,039
as well, that when we are online and when we

665
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:15,000
are in this hole in the public spaces having these exchanges,

666
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:18,119
there is a lot of there are lots of emotions,

667
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:20,760
lots of elements that get into it, and that kind

668
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,920
of you know, blind us and blind me personally. I

669
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,599
would say, where there's some public disagreement and some public

670
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:32,039
perceptions in response to things we say, and that we

671
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,119
feel the need to really push hard and all that

672
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,719
in the aftermath. It doesn't really, it really doesn't matter

673
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,840
who cares, you know, seriously, who cares? I have more

674
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,880
of I told you this privately as well, but I

675
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,920
kind of want to. I kind of I feel like

676
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,559
even the debate that I had with Andrew Wilson, where

677
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:58,199
he still kind of suspects me of being of being

678
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,159
very hostile towards him, which is why he takes anything

679
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:05,320
that I say with it with great with with great

680
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,840
care about this. But even the debate that I had

681
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,280
with him, I kind of went ahead with it because

682
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,760
we agreed to it, you know, a long time ago.

683
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,639
But I think as I, you know, you know, when

684
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:19,639
I you know, when I started becoming a categ tuman,

685
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,800
you know, as I, as I started progressing in that,

686
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,559
the more I went into it, and especially over the

687
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:28,000
last few weeks, I have been less and less interested

688
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,599
in having, you know, strong disagreements on political matters or

689
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,679
worldly matters as you might want to call it, and

690
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,800
have been more interested in just trying to make peace.

691
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,760
And it's very difficult when you are online, and when

692
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,960
you talk politics online, I understand that, which is why

693
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,840
I'm trying to do that less and less at the

694
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,679
moment at least.

695
00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: And also I think Islam is kind of wait wait, wait.

696
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: Politics, something just happened. David suddenly wanted to say something

697
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,280
despite being quite the entire time.

698
00:39:58,599 --> 00:40:01,199
Speaker 2: Well, it's finally, it's finally a I was slightly interested in.

699
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:03,400
But no, no, this goes back to when you guys

700
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,360
were first talking at the very beginning, and you were saying, well,

701
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,000
I you know, uh, we went after each other on

702
00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:13,599
this and so on. But uh, that's pretty darn normal

703
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,760
given certain personality types. It's something that before, before, before

704
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,679
anything you're talking back in like two thousand, two thousand

705
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:23,760
and seven, two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,

706
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,760
I was rolling with various uh I'm not going to

707
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,960
name any names, but uh, you know, counter counter g hotties.

708
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,400
But behind the scenes, people were concerned about jihad and

709
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,119
responding to the jihad threat. And it's a mixer. There's

710
00:40:36,159 --> 00:40:43,159
a there were Christians of all kinds, some atheists, Jews,

711
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:46,519
and so on, and they would work to people would

712
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:49,039
work together and have conferences and so on. I was

713
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:52,079
there behind the scene. There they're they're like at war

714
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,840
behind the scenes over over various things. And I just

715
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,119
I kind of realized over time, Wait, the people who

716
00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:02,360
are going to speak out and stand their ground on

717
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,880
an issue like gihad or something like that, even though

718
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,599
politicians and journalists and everyone's just gonna blast them, just

719
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,760
gonna and Muslims and raining down threats and threats on

720
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,800
their lives and threats to their families and so on.

721
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:18,159
So you kind of catch it from every direction if

722
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:21,000
you're a Christian. If you're a Christian you started going

723
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,719
after jihad and tying it to ISLAMP back in two

724
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,840
thousand and eight, you got blasted from every single direction.

725
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,440
Politicians were calling you in islamophobes. Journalists are writing articles

726
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,599
about you, calling you islamophobes. They're putting you on hate

727
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,440
group lists and so on, beside Nazis and so on,

728
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:41,079
just for criticizing jihad. If you're a Christian, even Christians

729
00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,559
are blasting you. They're saying you're too mean, you shouldn't criticize,

730
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,599
and so on. So you're catching it from every single direction.

731
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480
And like the person who's going to stand his ground

732
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,519
in those situations and keep pushing Generally, people who don't

733
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:55,000
like to put up with a lot of crap. Right

734
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,199
It's look, once I've made up my mind on something,

735
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,840
I'm not backing down under any circumstances. So those are

736
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,320
the people who are going to last and continue going

737
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,239
after jihad, even when there's an on slite. So just

738
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,320
so everyone knows that if you weren't around in two

739
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,880
thousand and eight two, you have no idea how much

740
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,880
it sucked back then. It is much much better right

741
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,880
now if you're criticizing jihad than it was back then.

742
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,639
Back then everyone attacked you. But anyway, the people who

743
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:21,639
are being attacked by everyone and are still going to

744
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,199
just keep pushing forward generally have a pretty aggressive, pretty confrontational,

745
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,800
don't back down type attitude. The thing is, you put

746
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,880
a bunch of people like that together, eventually there's something

747
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,199
they disagree on and it's just instant it's just instant war.

748
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,280
Just personality wise, I'm the sort of person who doesn't

749
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,639
back down. You're the sort of person who doesn't back down.

750
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,639
We're both really aggressive. Oh now we disagree and it's

751
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:49,159
a war. And by the way, the people back then

752
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,920
who even like publicly they were doing conferences together, but

753
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,679
privately we're having problems. They don't even work together now.

754
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:57,400
They couldn't they couldn't keep it up, they couldn't keep

755
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,199
it up long term. So I'm just looking at that going, oh, well,

756
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,960
that's that's kind of a that's kind of a side

757
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,159
feature of people who are willing to stand their ground

758
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:07,920
against jihad is they're not probably not going to be

759
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,599
the sort of people who work well in groups together

760
00:43:10,679 --> 00:43:13,320
because they eventually disagree on something, they go and they

761
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,079
fight over it. So when you guys are saying, when

762
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:18,719
you guys are saying, oh, we had this disagreement, we

763
00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:21,559
you know, we fought over it, I'm thinking, of course,

764
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:23,119
that's what you that's what you guys do. That's what

765
00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:25,880
guys with you with these personality types do. So that's

766
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,199
kind of that's kind of a that's kind of normal.

767
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,480
The issue for me is, you know, what what do

768
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,079
you do afterwards? But also what happens when you have

769
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,360
entire groups that are like this, Right, my entire group

770
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:42,840
is aggressive and confrontational and doesn't back down, and your

771
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,920
entire group is aggressive and confrontational, doesn't back down, and

772
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,599
then you end up with all these groups and now

773
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:49,599
it's not just an individual who you know. Now, it's

774
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:52,079
not just two individuals who can have a beef and

775
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:54,599
then squash it. It's you got entire groups. And even

776
00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:57,119
if two people, a person from each one of those

777
00:43:57,159 --> 00:43:59,880
groups squashes the beef, you still got the groups that

778
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,320
are going after each other. And just the way groups are.

779
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,760
If an entire group is really aggressive towards another group

780
00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:08,920
and a person within that group says, hey, let's make peace,

781
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,960
well the group is just going to pick someone else.

782
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,239
They're just gonna Okay, you get it. Okay, you're if

783
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,920
you're trying to make peace with these guys, you get

784
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,239
out of the way. We're going after We're going after

785
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,840
the guy we'll pick. We'll pick someone else. So anyway,

786
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,920
that's that's kind of never never bothers me too much

787
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,119
when when someone goes after each other, it's it's kind

788
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:27,960
of it's kind of the cost of admission to people

789
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,760
who are engaging with the kinds of things that all

790
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,440
of us have to engage with right now. The bigger,

791
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,960
the bigger concern is that in the age of the Internet,

792
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:40,000
very very easy for group to form and then go

793
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:41,760
to war with everyone else on the on the drop

794
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:42,360
of a diamond.

795
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,559
Speaker 1: So it's a rough situation, I thought you and then

796
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:51,000
we're going to stop talking. Man, Well, Jay, you were saying.

797
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,039
Speaker 3: So you know, as you guys know, you know, Islam

798
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:58,519
doesn't really see a distinction really between religion and politics

799
00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:03,559
or kind of wedded I think Christianity sees a relationship.

800
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,519
Maybe it's maybe sometimes in certain sectors it's emphasize in

801
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:11,599
terms of the division. And I don't mean to criticize

802
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:14,679
your point about not wanting to get into political debates.

803
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,199
But one of the reasons that I think you guys

804
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,800
might agree maybe not that it is relevant to talk

805
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,679
about the geopolitical side of this is that there's a

806
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,199
lot of people in power in the West who, either

807
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,039
out of ignorance about Islam or because they see it

808
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:35,719
as an ally or a useful tool, they're open to

809
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,079
in pro Islam. Even you know, especially on the left,

810
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,320
there's definitely a tendency to have this alliance between you know,

811
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,519
the left and various versions of or factions of Islam,

812
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:52,039
not understanding that Islam will pretend to be friendly, as

813
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:54,760
the Quran says, and then once you're in power, you

814
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,679
can flip on the flip the script. You don't have

815
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:57,920
to be friendly anymore.

816
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. I just want to point it because while

817
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,960
you guys were talking about all the various, uh the

818
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,840
various things in different parts of the world, that's normally

819
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,519
how I'm interpreting these things is like, like, take Iran

820
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:13,239
right now, if a bigger threat in the area emerged

821
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,400
than Iran, and Iran could be used by the United

822
00:46:17,519 --> 00:46:20,159
States to deal with that problem, the United States would

823
00:46:20,199 --> 00:46:23,639
suddenly be like pro Iran. Yeah, Iran, you're our buddies

824
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:25,639
now because we want you to help us. Well, I

825
00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:27,559
mean that this this thing happens, like you know, if

826
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:29,760
you have communists and you're trying to stop halt the

827
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,840
spread of communism and you're talking like uh Afghanistan or

828
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,239
something like that, who do you want you want people

829
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,480
who are gonna have to who are gonna like stand

830
00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:40,320
and not back down and fight to the death. Who

831
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,000
do you want you want a bunch of Jihatis on

832
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:44,079
your side? And so you'd say, hey, let' let's let's like,

833
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,119
let's align with the Jihatis in this situation. Problem is

834
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:49,719
eventually the communists go away and it's just the jihadis

835
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,800
that you helped, and now the Jihatis take over and

836
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,119
you've got this other problem. You've got another problem, and

837
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:57,719
I think, uh yeah, we're ap mentioned it like like

838
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,840
short sighted thinking. It's so in other words, you can

839
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,000
always find you can always there can always be conspiracy,

840
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:05,880
and I know there are conspiracies and so on. I

841
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,199
normally interpret things like that. It's just people leaders just

842
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,480
tend to always think, Okay, here's the threat we're concerned with.

843
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,079
Here's a group that can help us with that threat,

844
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,880
and therefore, let's support this group. And then the threat

845
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,079
eventually is dealt with. And then all you've got this

846
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:23,480
group is that you helped rise to power or you

847
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:25,360
funded them with money or something like this, and they

848
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:28,480
and then they grow out of control and then you

849
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,519
can't control them anymore. And as Jay was just pointing out,

850
00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:34,039
you've got if you're talking about Gihatis, they'll say whatever,

851
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:38,400
of course, great Britain, of course we'll be on your side. Yeah,

852
00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:41,519
just support us against our rivals because you don't like

853
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:43,840
those rivals. Yeah, we don't like them either. We don't

854
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,079
like them for completely different reasons. We don't like them

855
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:47,800
for this reason. You don't like them for that reason,

856
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,400
but yeah, go ahead and support us. And then so anyway,

857
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,480
I think that that happens all the times. A that's

858
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,280
a it's a sad feature of yallo super sort of superficial.

859
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,960
That's just a short term thinking that we're creating monsters

860
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,559
all over the place. It's just when you create a monster.

861
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,280
You can always view that in two ways that Aha,

862
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,239
they were trying to create a monster or no more,

863
00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:15,599
yeah we were trying to create a You could say, hey,

864
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,280
they're trying to create a monster. They're they're they're they

865
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,960
were plotting to make this monster here. Or they were

866
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,280
worried about something else and they created a monster because

867
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,119
they're stupid and they didn't realize what they were what

868
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:29,719
they were doing. Uh again, there can be situations where

869
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,679
people are trying to create monsters. Uh. I normally just

870
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,800
interpret those things. Is because I have a low view

871
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,840
of like people's thinking ability on a lot of these issues,

872
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,760
especially on Islam, just seeing too much of it. People

873
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,719
are too stupid. They're thinking, hey, this is they've just

874
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,079
been bombarded all their lives with all religions, have their

875
00:48:46,159 --> 00:48:48,320
radicals and stuff, and haven't you had that in Christianity?

876
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,400
So that's all that. That's all the Jihatis are over there,

877
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,840
so long term, long term, if we keep buddying up

878
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,920
with them and helping them in various ways, the Jihati's

879
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,159
hearts will melt. And everyone's done that. Europe's done that,

880
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,599
United States done that. Israel does that. Israel. Israel's fine

881
00:49:02,599 --> 00:49:06,840
with like Hamas leaders becoming billionaires and stuff, because in

882
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,840
the in they're thinking, it's hey, these guys are going

883
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,360
to become rich. You're not going to want to attack anymore.

884
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,039
They'll have too much to lose. They'll be billionaires, they'll

885
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:14,079
be good to go, man. And it doesn't just doesn't

886
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,119
doesn't work.

887
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,079
Speaker 1: Very stupid idea. Yeah, so that would be one of

888
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:22,559
those things. I mean, if if you, for example, if

889
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:25,039
you j were a defender of Islam, or you know,

890
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:27,079
we're one of those people who says, oh, Islam is

891
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:29,039
not a problem, we should be we should subcort. I mean,

892
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,519
that's I guess where I would have a have a

893
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:35,639
big need to disagree and possibly even fight with you,

894
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,280
But I know that you are not like that.

895
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 3: So well, so I think we're agreed on the tendency

896
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:46,239
of a lot of incapable politicians and bureaucrats. They don't

897
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,239
understand these world views. And definitely you guys were ahead

898
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,159
of the curve when it comes to, you know, critiquing

899
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:55,039
and warning about Islam. I just tend to go a

900
00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:57,519
little bit further when it comes to certain operatives or

901
00:49:57,519 --> 00:50:01,079
people in power positions that the Brazienski, the Kissingers, because

902
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:04,840
they seem to be aware of also utilizing this, you know,

903
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,960
ring of power of T E R R O R.

904
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:10,719
And I'll give you a couple examples. One of the

905
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,119
great books that I read on this was the CI

906
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:17,440
operative Miles Copeland, Miles Copeland of the Copeland Stewart family.

907
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:20,599
Speaker 1: Like, by the way, we've already said the worst things,

908
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:22,039
you don't have to send or anything anymore.

909
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: So so in Game of Nations Miles Copeland is everybody

910
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,320
should read this because he was CI's liaison to Egypt

911
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,360
under Nasser and Syria under I think Asad's dad prior

912
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,039
to that. But he talks a lot about how the

913
00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:43,239
West wanted to utilize the T, the Big T, and

914
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,480
he talks about them, particularly on page two of four,

915
00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:50,400
as being really useful idiots. And I'm not saying that

916
00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:56,559
the West is always behind Big T. But that by

917
00:50:56,599 --> 00:51:00,840
admission in many cases, he says, it's very you So,

918
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,119
I think it's just the reality politic that goes on

919
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,679
that all governments will at times resort to these kinds

920
00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:12,960
of things. They'll resort to fake flag events, shall we say,

921
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,000
They'll resort to arming, you know, operations cyclone is arming

922
00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:20,920
of the the the Taliban, right, the Afghani freedom fighters.

923
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,960
Brazinski goes on CBS and says that God is vigual,

924
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,480
you know, telling them to go and essentially fight Soviets,

925
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,239
and that plan actually worked, right, that exhausted the Soviets

926
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,960
during the Cold War, and then you had this creation

927
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:38,360
of this entity, this army that the CIA and the

928
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,280
Saudis had put billions of dollars into, that then was

929
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,119
able to you know, to whatever degree we think they're

930
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,719
allowed or I tend to think that they were a problem,

931
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:54,920
allowed to be an arc of crisis model is what

932
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,960
Razenski talked about after the Cold War. And I think

933
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,559
that narrative explains a lot of what happened both Cold

934
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:04,880
War better than the narrative that you know, the mainstream

935
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,119
media promoted, for example, weapons of mass destruction, all of that.

936
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,280
I think that was a lie, and so I think

937
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,280
there's a there's a power block usage of a lot

938
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,079
of these radical Islamic groups. And exactly which groups and

939
00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:22,119
exactly how far I think can be debated. But maybe

940
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,719
that's what you've and I'm not trying to be argumentative,

941
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,679
but I think that's another issue that you felt was

942
00:52:27,159 --> 00:52:27,639
too far.

943
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: I had only an issue with when it comes to,

944
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:37,320
for example, arguing that that Western intelligence or Israeli intelligence

945
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,480
was directly involved in the creation of of certain terrorist

946
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:46,519
organizations that we have today in the most direct form,

947
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,519
I would agree. For example, we know very well that

948
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:54,679
that during the Cold War, the US unfortunately utilized Islamic

949
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,440
terrorism to use them to fight against the Soviet Union.

950
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,119
We know that the other siding and similar things as well.

951
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:03,119
We know that this was a big game that was

952
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:06,239
being used before the world became more familiar with with

953
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,480
Islamic Islamic terrorism. And I would agree, for example, that

954
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,800
as a result of certain as a result of these

955
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:20,960
idiotic games, two of the major Islamic terrorist organizations developed

956
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:24,960
just because of this, As a direct consequence of this,

957
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:29,159
I would only disagree when if we are then going

958
00:53:29,199 --> 00:53:33,440
to argue that that the that the intelligence organizations in

959
00:53:33,519 --> 00:53:37,480
question were directly involved in creating these modern terrorist organizations

960
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,440
such as Alcado or ISIS. So I would say Alkata

961
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,199
and ISIS were directly a direct consequence of these idiotic

962
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,159
and pretty vile games. But were they directly involved in

963
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,360
creating and upholding and funding these organizations?

964
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,079
Speaker 3: I would dispute that, Well, maybe they're. The question becomes

965
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:57,159
what do we mean by direct because I would agree

966
00:53:57,199 --> 00:54:02,599
that you didn't necessarily have you know, brazilskiar Kissinger flying

967
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:05,480
over there and literally telling Osama bin Lauden what to do.

968
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:11,519
But you had essentially an alliance of Western friendly groups

969
00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:17,039
and intelligence operations, including CIA, Saudi's, Pakistani, Egypt, all working

970
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:22,840
together to arm and to train militarily some of these outfits.

971
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,039
So maybe Ben Lauden is It would be too far

972
00:54:27,119 --> 00:54:30,239
to say, oh, Ben Laden is a CIA operative, but

973
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,760
he's definitely somebody who had a close relationship with the CIA.

974
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,559
And even after the Taliban had in the nineteen nineties

975
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:42,159
bombed the coal they had done the Yemen bombings that

976
00:54:42,559 --> 00:54:46,320
Bin Lauden was taking credit for, you had meetings in

977
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,679
Texas with certain oil entities like Unkow to ensure that

978
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,800
there would be a pipeline set up. So I think

979
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,400
that even these things that we think of as like

980
00:54:56,519 --> 00:55:00,000
terror events, they can actually be useful for certain certain milita,

981
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:05,800
very industrial complex profit motives, like the establishment of a pipeline.

982
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:09,480
And you might take issue with this as well. It's fine,

983
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,480
but you see a very similar thing with a lot

984
00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:16,039
of what's going on with Turkey and Syria and Russia,

985
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:19,000
and we saw, for example, the nord Stream pipeline event.

986
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:22,400
A lot of that Ukraine warfare has to do with

987
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:27,159
who's going to bring energy into these sectors. So if you,

988
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:30,039
for example, I mean, I'm not going to keep gapping,

989
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:32,840
but if you if you look at the covert war

990
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,280
in Bosnia chapter and the covert war against Melozavik that

991
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,800
the CIA did. He cites quite a few pretty extensive

992
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:44,039
proofs that in the case of the coast of a

993
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:48,599
liberation army, you had this mix of organized crime, been

994
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:54,559
Laden ideology, and the bringing in of trained Pakistani Afghani

995
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:59,840
fighters that were still being used even after bin laden

996
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,039
His has been said in my early nineties to be

997
00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:04,960
associated with al Qaeda and wanted due to the nineteen

998
00:56:05,039 --> 00:56:07,840
ninety three World Trade Center event. They're still the CIA

999
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,679
is still using the Taliman basically in this region for

1000
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,000
the purpose of subverting and undermining Melosevic. So I think

1001
00:56:15,039 --> 00:56:17,599
that in that case, I could point to that that's

1002
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:20,280
dealt with pretty well in Secret Affairs Chapter.

1003
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,679
Speaker 1: I would definitely agree with one aspect of it, which

1004
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,000
is what you briefly mentioned, which is that bin Laden

1005
00:56:25,079 --> 00:56:30,519
himself had most likely had a certain familiarity and interactions

1006
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:33,320
with the CIA. I think it's pretty well established that he,

1007
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,599
at least to a certain degree, was involved, or that

1008
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:40,760
the CIA was involved with groups that also included him,

1009
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,039
and he was a significant figure in the movement early on,

1010
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:48,760
and I think there is no clear evidence that there

1011
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,800
is no clear evidence that he directly interacted and engaged

1012
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,480
with CIA representatives, but it is critically that he was

1013
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:01,360
part of operations with the CIA, was involved, so correct,

1014
00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:07,239
it's it's not very hard to conclude from there that

1015
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,239
he had some ties to Western intelligence.

1016
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what I say, David, But one last point,

1017
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,079
just that the point I'm making about Kosovo Bosnia and

1018
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:23,159
that situation just demonstrates even though ban himself is not involved,

1019
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:25,760
it's the same networks that were already part of the

1020
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,639
Afghani training is basically al KaiA, right, So Alkaia develops

1021
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,480
in the nineties out of that network of the base

1022
00:57:32,639 --> 00:57:35,280
as it was called, which was the original base where

1023
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,119
I think it was Hakamatyar I think was his one

1024
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:41,559
of his allies that he trained at this base with

1025
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,960
Binlan himself, I'm saying in Afghanistan. So it's it's the

1026
00:57:46,039 --> 00:57:50,199
networks and the trained fighters, not beIN Alan himself. In

1027
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,960
terms of Kosovo and the KLA, but that was a

1028
00:57:53,039 --> 00:57:57,840
created thing that the West wanted to use to undermine Melosevitch.

1029
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,239
And that doesn't mean Melisavitch is a hero or good guy,

1030
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,960
just means that that's the real politics.

1031
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: That Actually that is pretty much proven, right, I mean

1032
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:08,360
we know for a fact, I think that that that, uh,

1033
00:58:08,719 --> 00:58:14,679
that certain cells were directly used in the in in

1034
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,920
Bosnia and in other conflicts. Yeah, so it's undeniable that

1035
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,559
that the West, that the United States of America and

1036
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:26,840
Western Nations and Western intelligence have been involved in some

1037
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,000
really really messed up things. And I mean it shouldn't

1038
00:58:30,039 --> 00:58:32,199
be very far fetched to say, uh, this kind of

1039
00:58:32,199 --> 00:58:37,400
stuff considering that in the very Syria Civil War that

1040
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,119
we are that we have been, that we have seen

1041
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:44,079
go on for so long, the US made some incredibly

1042
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:49,519
questionable decisions, such as backing the like the Kurdish led

1043
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,400
factions for a while and then just just leaving them

1044
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,639
there to themselves and being massacred to others. So we

1045
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:58,760
we clearly see that the that that that that that,

1046
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:03,280
the that the world powers, including the US, depending on

1047
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,719
whatever government or whatever agency is at work, engages in

1048
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,280
some really questionable behavior.

1049
00:59:09,559 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, and so as far as like you could

1050
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,000
have you could have a thousand hours of video footage

1051
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,320
of the CIA meeting with various terrorist leaders, that would

1052
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,920
not it wouldn't surprise me at all. It's kind of

1053
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:28,280
like when horrible, horrible things, when things go horribly wrong,

1054
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,079
and you say, what's behind this? Hey, look at look

1055
00:59:32,119 --> 00:59:35,599
at this group that this Western nation supported this or

1056
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:39,599
this Western agency helped that group, and so on, it's like,

1057
00:59:42,119 --> 00:59:45,440
what do you think is really kind of behind the outcome?

1058
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,639
It seems some people go in the direction of well,

1059
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:51,880
they're idiots involved and they don't always understand, they can't

1060
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,920
think three moves ahead as far as what they're doing,

1061
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,840
and so they're idiots versus the kind of like mastermind interpretation. No,

1062
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,400
they're really smart people at work. They're analyzing all these things,

1063
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,400
they're figuring out what they want, and uh, they're they're

1064
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,079
orchestra they're pulling the strings and orchestrating these things behind

1065
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:09,159
the scenes. Now, guess what. Both things happen. Both things

1066
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:12,840
indisputably happen. But it seems that like some people, some

1067
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,920
people tend like I tend towards the people are stupid

1068
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:19,079
and yeah, you you planned this, and here was thed

1069
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:21,480
here were the real consequences of this dumb thing you

1070
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:25,199
did that you didn't anticipate. Uh, But it seems other

1071
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:30,480
people are Other people lean towards oh this was this

1072
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:33,400
was planned, and here's what the goal was and so on.

1073
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,320
And I mean, guess what. The the evidence is usually

1074
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,639
consistent with with either one. So it's kind of like

1075
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:40,480
a it seems like a personality. It seems like a

1076
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,960
personality thing as far as which which side you favor

1077
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:44,000
something like that.

1078
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 3: So well, and maybe more of a localized, uh like

1079
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:52,360
immediate context. It's a lot of I'm sure government idiocy

1080
01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:56,079
and ignorance and and competence, but there can be from

1081
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:59,000
a more of a maybe a meta political perspective, a

1082
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,440
bigger game planner, a bigger picture at work. I'll give

1083
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:08,760
you one example, a couplet pretty well known Likud policy papers.

1084
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,960
One was the nineteen eighty two odd Ya non Plan,

1085
01:01:13,039 --> 01:01:16,960
which was written i think under Ariel Sharon. And when

1086
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,519
he wrote this, what he outlines is a logical strategy

1087
01:01:21,519 --> 01:01:23,639
for Israel. So a lot of people talk about this.

1088
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:25,079
I don't think many people have actually read it, but

1089
01:01:25,119 --> 01:01:27,199
if you actually read, it's only about seven or eight pages.

1090
01:01:28,039 --> 01:01:32,400
It actually is logically what Israel would do in the

1091
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,920
region two maintained power, and a lot of people don't

1092
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,280
know that. One of the things that talks about is

1093
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,199
the establishment of a Coptic Christian state in Egypt, which

1094
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,960
is surprising to me, but that's what Israel thought would

1095
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,960
be a good a good plan for that border.

1096
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be surprising. Coptic sentiments are actually on the

1097
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,440
on the on the rather good side in the Middle

1098
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,559
East when it comes to yeah.

1099
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 3: I'm saying, there's a logic to that makes sense. And

1100
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,760
then it talks about, particularly for Syria, what they would

1101
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,880
like to do is a micro state divide in conqueror

1102
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,360
strategy and with Iraq. So the main two concerns. In

1103
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,719
nineteen eighty two, under I think Ero Sharon's right hand

1104
01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:16,280
man advisor, the Kissinger of Israel, basically was to do

1105
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:22,960
like micro states in Syria, micro states in Iraq, give

1106
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:28,639
Jordan to the Hashemites, excuse me, give Jordan to the Palestinians,

1107
01:02:28,639 --> 01:02:30,239
which is odd and I'm not sure why they wanted

1108
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:32,800
to do that, but this might have been at a

1109
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,639
time when they thought that the PLO might be better

1110
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,920
than Hashamites. I'm not sure, because that changes. According to

1111
01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:46,400
Victor Ostrovsky, you may take issue with his views, but

1112
01:02:47,039 --> 01:02:49,679
I think his books are pretty insightful. They're pretty enlightening,

1113
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:53,119
even if they're not all one percent accurate, Like he's

1114
01:02:53,159 --> 01:02:55,320
laying out pretty much the way the structure of that

1115
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:01,519
system works. The Masad. And then in nineteen nineteen ninety

1116
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:05,280
six you have what's called the clean break strategy, which

1117
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:10,480
is after he getsuck Rabin, when Yahoo comes in, they

1118
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:14,320
lay out his policy which is very similar to know,

1119
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,840
it's not identical, but it was very intent on the

1120
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,280
removal of Saddam. So both I mean Saddam was a

1121
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:27,039
CIA trained Baptist going back to the seventies. According to Marls,

1122
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:30,880
Copeland and other other texts. But the only reason I'm

1123
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:32,840
saying all this is that there does seem to be

1124
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,880
a pretty consistent pattern from the Lekud mindset throughout the

1125
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:43,320
seventies and eighties and nineties to to undermine Syria not

1126
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,440
being moralistic. I understand the attitude of why they would

1127
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:50,719
do that from a strategic standpoint. They also talked about

1128
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:55,760
funding the Christian Philangists in Lebanon, and.

1129
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,599
Speaker 1: They actively they they actively supported them and fought with him,

1130
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:03,039
which is it later ended up kind of in the

1131
01:04:03,079 --> 01:04:07,199
middle of the war, leaving them to their destiny.

1132
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: And the only thing I would issue with that you

1133
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,960
you might disagree with is Instrovsky. At the end of

1134
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:19,519
his first book, By Way of Deception, he talks quite

1135
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:22,079
a bit about at first they kind of liked Arafat,

1136
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:24,840
and then they didn't like Arafat for various reasons. They

1137
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,119
wanted to get rid of Arafat. Arafat got more and

1138
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:29,760
more radical, And I'm not pro PLO, but I'm just

1139
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,760
saying that the PLO was beginning to be influenced by Soviets.

1140
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,280
They were getting to get into very radical Black September

1141
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:44,400
type ideology, and then Ostrovsky's second book, Other Side of Deception,

1142
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:47,639
he argues that at this time we felt like it

1143
01:04:47,679 --> 01:04:55,320
was necessary to arm Egyptian fundamentalists Muslim Brotherhood and what

1144
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:56,159
become Tomas.

1145
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:01,239
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, this is actually so you could you

1146
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:03,800
could dive into that and you could understand that as

1147
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,360
a very very you know, unsettling conspiracy that was going on,

1148
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,599
or you could understand that as a as a strategic

1149
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:14,199
move because the strategy until that point, it was like

1150
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:20,039
Israel was fighting with the PLO and with allied organizations

1151
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:24,119
that were pretty harsh and pretty awful. And until that,

1152
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:29,199
during the entire time, Israel actually had this gravely mistaken

1153
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:34,519
view that compared to these secularist or socialist movements, and

1154
01:05:34,719 --> 01:05:37,440
Islamic movement would be more manageable and would be more

1155
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:42,199
more reasonable. So so they did get directly involved in

1156
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,599
funding Islamist organizations and Islami Islamist movements in the in

1157
01:05:46,639 --> 01:05:49,480
the Palestinian territories and in Egypt. So they did directly

1158
01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:52,920
get involved in in funding the Muslim Brotherhood. And it

1159
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,679
is very well recorded and admitted by you know, Israeli

1160
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:01,239
officials that they were involved in supporting the pre Hammas

1161
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,280
Muslim brotherhood charity movement that then later on became Hamas.

1162
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,840
But the idea there was, we're dealing with the PLO.

1163
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,199
These guys are obviously unreasonable terrorists. We can't reason with

1164
01:06:11,239 --> 01:06:14,320
these guys. We need to have we need to support

1165
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,159
organization that will be they will pacify people. And then, however,

1166
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:24,440
then in the nineties or eighties, late eighties, PLO starts

1167
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:28,760
sitting at the table and becoming more diplomatic and openly

1168
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,599
expressing the desire to actually agree to a two state solution.

1169
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,760
Israel still mistrusts them, but because they express these sentiments,

1170
01:06:38,199 --> 01:06:41,280
the movement that is Hamas is then flooded by the

1171
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:46,199
radical sentiment that is already already established and that Israel

1172
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:51,440
fostered and is clearly then opposes this whole sentiment of

1173
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,920
becoming diplomatic and making compromises with Israel and then becomes

1174
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,639
the real problem and they start becoming an active terrorist

1175
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:01,559
organization that then directly fi and becomes worse in whatever

1176
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:03,559
the PLO ever has been.

1177
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a path. So the PLO that kind of

1178
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,119
with Arafat, that's like setting the stage for future interactions,

1179
01:07:10,159 --> 01:07:13,599
and that an Arafat was aware of it, and Israel

1180
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:15,920
was aware of what it was doing with Arafat. But

1181
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,400
Arafat's like, hey, we can have a terrorist attack next week,

1182
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,039
and oh, you give me a bunch of money and

1183
01:07:22,039 --> 01:07:23,960
I'll keep these guys under control. Okay, we'll give you

1184
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,480
a bunch of money. And okay, so eventually the guy's

1185
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:30,800
a billionaire. Okay, well, your your welfare and livelihood in

1186
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,159
this world depend on you getting along with us. And

1187
01:07:33,239 --> 01:07:36,400
he's keeping his people under control. So if this guy

1188
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,840
becomes the richest man in the world, what do we

1189
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,840
care as long as he's keeping his people under control.

1190
01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:46,960
Not realizing, well, as you're as as everyone's funding this

1191
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,800
guy with money, sending this guy with money, he's becoming

1192
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,280
richer and richer and richer, and then okay, yeah, he

1193
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,840
doesn't want to he doesn't want to want to lose that,

1194
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,199
and therefore, let me be on. Let me try to

1195
01:07:56,239 --> 01:07:59,400
get everyone on better terms with Israel. Okay, now you've

1196
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:03,320
got a popular that, well, we don't like you anymore.

1197
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,440
Then if you're if you're gonna if you're gonna normalize

1198
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,679
relations with Israel, then we're gonna pick someone else. And

1199
01:08:08,719 --> 01:08:10,639
so it's kind of like all that was for nothing,

1200
01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:12,039
and then you have to pick a different group and oh,

1201
01:08:12,119 --> 01:08:14,679
let's yeah, let's be cool with this group being showered

1202
01:08:14,679 --> 01:08:16,279
with money and stuff like that. That'll fix that. And

1203
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:19,760
guess what if if Hamas tomorrow said, you know what,

1204
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,319
we got all these billionaires, let's just get along with them.

1205
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,680
Guess what Hamas is gone. Hamas is gonna be gone.

1206
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,319
The people are gonna the people are gonna pick someone

1207
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:29,680
and pick someone else, uh to represent what they actually want.

1208
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 1: So yes is also the PLO was directly involved in

1209
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:38,840
basically educating the people in Gaza and in the Palestinian

1210
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,680
territories on this whole new idea that was kind of

1211
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,479
emerging in the in the nineteen sixties that that this

1212
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:49,560
is all uh direct the Palestinian land and Palestinian identity,

1213
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,159
and you know, this is what makes us the the

1214
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:55,520
the the oxides directly our identity. It don't all belongs

1215
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:56,920
to us, and we will all take it back one

1216
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,840
day and this is a flag and so on. So

1217
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,439
they they brought up these ideas, but then just a

1218
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,920
few decades later they started compromising and saying, Okay, we

1219
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,159
don't actually want the entire land, We just want to

1220
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:10,479
make a have a two state solution, but they taught

1221
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,079
the population something different just decades before.

1222
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 3: And well, it would be that during the Cold War

1223
01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:23,000
Stalin tried to court Israel and Israel switched its allegiance

1224
01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:27,119
originally sort of interested in Stalinism towards the West. Yeah uh.

1225
01:09:27,239 --> 01:09:30,479
And so what happened then was the Soviets saw a

1226
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:35,640
way to influence through the PLO in Israel. So he

1227
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,279
gets very hairy with big power blocks influencing, especially in

1228
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:42,319
the Cold War. But yeah, go ahead.

1229
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: There's there's one thing, which is that there's an article

1230
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:47,760
that people bring up very often and which we say,

1231
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,760
I actually misunderstand, where it is said that Netnyah secretly

1232
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,960
supported Hamas for years or propped up Hamas for years,

1233
01:09:56,119 --> 01:09:59,399
and it is a fact he did. He did prop

1234
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,239
Uphama in a way. But so what actually happened there

1235
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,560
is that met Nyahu was one of the few people

1236
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,640
or one of those people in the liquid government who

1237
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,079
was still off the idea that if you just allow

1238
01:10:13,159 --> 01:10:17,880
the Islamic terrorists to receive funds, they will be pacified

1239
01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:21,239
and we can control them and we can just continuously

1240
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:24,199
move ahead with our security plans and so on. And

1241
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,199
many people within the government of Israel were disagreeing with that,

1242
01:10:29,359 --> 01:10:32,680
and he was basically shutting them out down and telling them, look,

1243
01:10:33,039 --> 01:10:34,680
all we need to do is so allow them to

1244
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,520
receive the money. Once they have enough money, they will

1245
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:38,680
no longer, they will not try.

1246
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 3: I don't know what you might be talking about a

1247
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:43,840
different one, but I mean, I've got the Wall Street

1248
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:48,479
Journal article right here, and it goes into the critique.

1249
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: Basically, there is one quote which is which is attributed

1250
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,520
to him, which is only a claim with only one

1251
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,760
single anonymous source, which says that he told people that

1252
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:00,560
the best way to prevent a Tuesdays solution is to

1253
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,479
support Hamas. That goes to one one person. But that's

1254
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,399
very very questionable. But it is where I also talked

1255
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:10,239
with this. I also talked about this with politicians directly

1256
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:12,560
in Israel that are that are that are part of

1257
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,439
the Lequid government. It is very well known in the

1258
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,399
government that net Niya who had this, and they also

1259
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,199
because of this, have kept great resentment and anger toward

1260
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:25,000
Netnia because October seven happened, and according to that Nya

1261
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:26,920
with logic, it was never supposed to happen as long

1262
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:33,279
as Hamas receives money. So yeah, lots of really really

1263
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:41,079
really bad stuff. That's geopolitics. Anything else. Let's see trend

1264
01:11:41,079 --> 01:11:42,720
To went a great video on how the Base go

1265
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,720
to Hell? Good? Does Jay still think Protestants are heretics? Dude,

1266
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:49,680
I thought we weren't supposed to fight here today.

1267
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:54,359
Speaker 3: Man. Protestantism is a heresy in our view, But we

1268
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,960
don't individually judge people in terms of their destinies. So

1269
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,800
I can't tell individuals you're going to Hell. I don't

1270
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:03,800
think we have the right to do that, but we

1271
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:05,520
do have the duty to tell people that they should

1272
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:06,119
be Orthodox.

1273
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:14,239
Speaker 1: David, what do you think about that coffee I's dialogue, APJ.

1274
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:16,319
I've been considering becoming a Cateicuman, so I have been

1275
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:19,239
wondering what normal differences are they between Antioch and the Os.

1276
01:12:19,399 --> 01:12:22,359
Don't ask me, ask j Jay. What differences are they

1277
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:23,239
between Antioch and O.

1278
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 3: Well, OCA comes out of the Russian Church, essentially out

1279
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,680
of Rocres, so there's going to be a lot more

1280
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:34,239
just depending on where you are in America, a lot

1281
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:38,680
more American converts probably in the OCA. The Antiochians are

1282
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,359
technically Arab for the most part, so you're gonna find, like,

1283
01:12:42,399 --> 01:12:44,920
if you go to Florida to an Antiochian church, you're

1284
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,479
gonna be the only white dude there. If you're a

1285
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,279
white dude, if you go to an Antiochian church in

1286
01:12:49,319 --> 01:12:52,600
the Bible Belt, it's going to be all Protestant Catholic converts.

1287
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,319
So it just kind of depends on where you are.

1288
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,640
But theology wise, there's not huge differences.

1289
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 1: They also have a there is a famous Western riote

1290
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,159
Antiochian thing in America, right.

1291
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are not a lot of those, but that

1292
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:07,039
does exist.

1293
01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:07,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1294
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw one of the one of their liturgies,

1295
01:13:12,359 --> 01:13:15,960
and I thought it was kind of nice. Book shelf

1296
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,560
bigger you see, lool. Glad to see you guys together, yep,

1297
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,680
sony Erickson. Love isn't the Yeah, it's pretty gay. A

1298
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:23,199
good way to start the fight is to ask ja

1299
01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:25,680
about the twenty one No, I'm not going to do that,

1300
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:33,560
how much the twenty one Martyr's topic where we had

1301
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:37,760
a oh that okay, we didn't even fight about that.

1302
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,159
I just asked you a clarifying question. Then, because I

1303
01:13:40,199 --> 01:13:41,720
asked you a clarifying question, and do you give an

1304
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,760
answer to it, that all hell broke clues, and then.

1305
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 3: Well, I do have a tendency to be skeptical about

1306
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,399
those kinds of videos and claims when they come out.

1307
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,840
That doesn't mean that I know for sure what happened,

1308
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,840
but I do believe that there are fake flag of

1309
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:01,920
it and there are stage things. I'm not saying that

1310
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,000
I know that that one was, but there were people

1311
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:07,119
at the time questioning it.

1312
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 2: Once again, Yeah, so I wasn't when you said they

1313
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,520
weren't martyrs or something like that. Did you mean because

1314
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,359
they're not Christians, or because you don't you think it

1315
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,279
was staged, or because it was for some other reason

1316
01:14:20,359 --> 01:14:21,800
and it had nothing to do with them.

1317
01:14:22,359 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 3: Two separate issues. So one thing that maybe when I

1318
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:27,520
was I was saying that even if they are dying

1319
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,720
for the name of Christ in the Orthodox Church, they

1320
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,920
can't be martyrs in the calendar saint martyrs. So it

1321
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,479
doesn't mean that I know their destiny. For all I know,

1322
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,600
they could be in heaven with God, I hope. So.

1323
01:14:40,239 --> 01:14:42,640
But in the Orthodox Church, we can't, for example, make

1324
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,680
Thomas Aquinas you know, a saint in the Orthodox calendar

1325
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,199
because he wasn't a person who died in the Orthodox Church.

1326
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,479
So we couldn't say in good conscience are good faith

1327
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:56,439
that they're Orthodox Saints. But separate from that, there were

1328
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,279
a lot of public news articles and people doubt the

1329
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:04,159
footage when the footage first dropped. So that's why I

1330
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:07,039
had doubt on it was people analyzing the videos, and

1331
01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:10,479
also I think the source is somewhat dubious. I don't

1332
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:15,399
trust side intelligence or rita cats. So I just simply

1333
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,880
had questions and doubts, but I don't know for sure

1334
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:18,479
what happened.

1335
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 1: Do you agree with the with the statement that is

1336
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,680
kind of famous? Uh, we know where the church is,

1337
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,680
but we we do, but we don't say we don't

1338
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:29,720
dare say where it is not.

1339
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's liable to being misused. It

1340
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,840
can kind of give the impression that everybody's in the

1341
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,439
church or something like that. So, uh, if it's kind

1342
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,319
of misused in that way, I would disagree with it.

1343
01:15:44,399 --> 01:15:47,680
But it can also kind of express the same point

1344
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:51,920
I'm making that we don't say where God's grace isn't

1345
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,039
working or is. We don't know that. All we know

1346
01:15:55,399 --> 01:15:57,479
is that you know. It's like Paul says in the Epistles,

1347
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:59,560
he says, we don't judge those that are without, we

1348
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,920
judge those that are within, because that's you know, our communion.

1349
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,119
So yeah, we just I just don't know people's destinies.

1350
01:16:07,359 --> 01:16:09,079
I don't know anyone's destiny.

1351
01:16:09,199 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: So nice, nice except destiny. Uh, those avery, stupid and

1352
01:16:19,079 --> 01:16:21,640
creations is definitely going to look down on this. Memb

1353
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:24,359
pen be apologizing and call you both little weaklings.

1354
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 3: Muhammedan Job didn't he didn't he run from a debating

1355
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:32,119
you two?

1356
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:34,239
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1357
01:16:34,319 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, did he debate you?

1358
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 2: David?

1359
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:36,600
Speaker 3: Did you all ever debate?

1360
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? A long time ago. Okay, that was that was back.

1361
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,119
That was back when no one had any clue who

1362
01:16:41,119 --> 01:16:41,399
he was.

1363
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,079
Speaker 1: No he credits David Wood was making him famous because

1364
01:16:45,119 --> 01:16:45,680
of that debate.

1365
01:16:46,079 --> 01:16:50,239
Speaker 3: I have a question for you guys, your opinion. Do

1366
01:16:50,319 --> 01:16:52,720
you think that it's plausible or have you seen any

1367
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:58,760
evidence that the popularization and push for online Islam maybe

1368
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,399
perhaps three people like the job or the tastes. Definitely

1369
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,600
it's plausible that this is being funded by Saudi's or

1370
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:07,760
you know, big big money.

1371
01:17:08,159 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 1: I would say that there were most definitely in the

1372
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:17,039
early days was an attempt, probably from Saudi sources. I think, uh,

1373
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:22,960
it might have switched to Qatar into Qatari interference. But

1374
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,000
it was pretty well known. I mean, every single every

1375
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:29,119
single Western university, all the big Western universities had had

1376
01:17:29,319 --> 01:17:35,439
Islamic institutes UH established through Middle Eastern funding, through Saudi

1377
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,479
Arabian or or Qatari funding. Iran tried to do a lot,

1378
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:44,000
but they didn't really they they never really accomplished anything

1379
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,840
because of their Shia stuff. But I would say it's

1380
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:51,399
it's pretty clear that there is big Middle Eastern money involved.

1381
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't have to Yeah, it doesn't have

1382
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,520
to be like like a government. It can be, of course,

1383
01:17:57,359 --> 01:17:59,600
I mean, but it can always be. Yeah, it can

1384
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,800
always be. It can always be like individuals like funny,

1385
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,960
like like we know that. I mean, Tristan Tate admitted

1386
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,000
that when he was in where was he Ap and

1387
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,840
he was saying he was offered he was offered.

1388
01:18:11,119 --> 01:18:15,199
Speaker 1: Sadi king here as I think he was mentioning he

1389
01:18:15,239 --> 01:18:17,600
was talking with Dubai. But then he he basically said

1390
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:22,000
that there were people who offered him benefits.

1391
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 2: Itby yeah, he did all kinds of benefits if he

1392
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:28,800
converted to Islam. And then conveniently his brother converts to Islam,

1393
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,079
and so we know these things go on behind matter

1394
01:18:31,119 --> 01:18:32,319
of fact, we know for a fact these things go

1395
01:18:32,359 --> 01:18:34,600
on behind the scenes because I know two I know

1396
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:39,159
two Arab Christian pastors who completely different countries, both told

1397
01:18:39,159 --> 01:18:42,560
me the same thing, just with different amounts. One this

1398
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,199
was in the UK and he said a group of

1399
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,479
I think he either said Saudis or Egyptians or something

1400
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:50,079
like that. He said they came to him. They said, hey,

1401
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:56,439
we want you to to convert to Islam and write

1402
01:18:56,479 --> 01:19:01,279
a book saying that you examine and the evidence for

1403
01:19:01,359 --> 01:19:04,319
the scientific miracles and stuff, and this converted you to Islam.

1404
01:19:04,399 --> 01:19:07,439
And they said, they told him, name your price, and

1405
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:09,239
so that's what he was told. And then I know

1406
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:14,119
another Arab Christian pastor. He's in California, and he said

1407
01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:15,960
it was after some event and he went to like

1408
01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:18,880
the gas station and they came up to him and

1409
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:22,520
they handed him a karan at the gas station, like

1410
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,760
inside was a letter saying two million dollars if you

1411
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:31,079
convert to Islam and announce and announced that you've converted

1412
01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:33,640
to Islam and so and so that's I mean, those

1413
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,760
are people I actually know, and so this is happening

1414
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,000
to them. So who knows what's going on behind the

1415
01:19:38,039 --> 01:19:41,279
scenes with you know, sneak O and the Tates and

1416
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,600
Lily J and all these I would say it's probably

1417
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,760
it's probably a mix of like just direct people, hey,

1418
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:50,840
we'll give you this amount if you do this, and

1419
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:53,239
just and just kind of grifters who are looking around

1420
01:19:53,279 --> 01:19:54,960
going hey, if I jump in this community and I

1421
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,439
start praising Islam, then they just they shower me with

1422
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,439
money and attention and views and so on. But yeah,

1423
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:03,880
that the big the big shift in Dawa has been

1424
01:20:04,279 --> 01:20:06,680
it's awesome and it's it's destroying. It's destroying, it's lot.

1425
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:08,479
I don't know. It may not look that way, but

1426
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,279
it's destroying Islam from within. But back in the day

1427
01:20:11,279 --> 01:20:14,079
when it was ah Meddi dot and Zacher Night, there's

1428
01:20:14,159 --> 01:20:20,760
actual like Muslim organizations like choosing people, who choosing someone

1429
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:24,119
who's gonna be like most impactful to a Western audience

1430
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:26,079
or to a non Muslim audience, and they're they're they're

1431
01:20:26,119 --> 01:20:29,560
carefully choosing these people and like crafting them. Here's how

1432
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,840
you can be most compelling to a non Muslim American

1433
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,159
or European audience or something like that. And they're handpicking

1434
01:20:35,159 --> 01:20:37,560
these guys. And if you go back to the early

1435
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,079
two thousands. Those are the people that Muslims are watching

1436
01:20:40,119 --> 01:20:43,279
back then, and I'm I'm watching them and I'm interacting

1437
01:20:43,279 --> 01:20:45,439
with Muslims online in like two thousand and three, two

1438
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,439
thousand and four, two thousand and five. I'm like, these

1439
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:51,560
guys do not sound like the guys I interact with online.

1440
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,039
The guys I interact with online, they're way more aggressive,

1441
01:20:54,079 --> 01:20:56,680
They're way more hostile. They're extremely quick to threaten you

1442
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,279
with death or anything, anything, anything you disagree with them on.

1443
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,399
Whereas these guys are out there, Islam's are RELIGIONI of

1444
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:04,680
peace and tolerance. And it's like, how do you how

1445
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,560
do you get the actual people who represent what Islam

1446
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,279
really is? How do you get them to be the

1447
01:21:12,079 --> 01:21:15,479
popular representatives? And so unfortunately that's happened because the people

1448
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,439
now it's it's like it's polar opposite of what twenty

1449
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:20,159
years ago. Twenty years ago, if you said Mohammed had

1450
01:21:20,159 --> 01:21:21,359
sex with a nine year old girl, you were called

1451
01:21:21,359 --> 01:21:23,000
a liar. You're making that up. You're a liar. If

1452
01:21:23,039 --> 01:21:25,800
you said there's a death penalty in Islam for leaving Islam,

1453
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,640
they say you're you're a liar. That's that you're making

1454
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,039
that up. And the population they didn't know any better,

1455
01:21:31,039 --> 01:21:33,600
they don't know what's in the Muslim sources. They've got

1456
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,319
some islamophobe saying one thing, and they've got this lovely

1457
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,840
Islamic speaker saying no, this is all these these these

1458
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:40,840
people take things out of context and so on. So

1459
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,079
who are you gonna believe talking about Islam? You're gonna

1460
01:21:43,079 --> 01:21:45,319
listen to the Muslim And so this is actually a

1461
01:21:45,399 --> 01:21:48,680
huge problem. But now that Dawa guys shout from the

1462
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,399
rooftops that they support child marriage because their prophet did it.

1463
01:21:51,399 --> 01:21:53,920
They all acknowledge it, that Muhammad did it, They acknowledge

1464
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:57,079
there's a death penalty. They send messages to AP saying, yeah,

1465
01:21:57,119 --> 01:21:59,119
once we get our Islamic state, we're gonna we're gonna

1466
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:00,880
we're gonna chop your head off and so on. So

1467
01:22:02,119 --> 01:22:05,520
it's it's a situation where lots of Christians would prefer

1468
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:09,159
interacting with the nice Muslims from twenty years ago, but

1469
01:22:09,239 --> 01:22:11,399
it's like, do you really want that because it was

1470
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:14,680
a massive misrepresentation. Yeah, these guys are way more hostile,

1471
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,840
way angrier, way more aggressive, way more insulting, defending, like

1472
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:21,520
the worst things you can imagine. It makes you uncomfortable

1473
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,600
because you're like, ah, my goodness, what is this mess?

1474
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,560
I would rather have those nice guys. But as far

1475
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,960
as like destroying Islam, wouldn't you rather have people understanding

1476
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,039
what it's really about? And therefore don't you want like

1477
01:22:33,119 --> 01:22:36,640
muhammedd jab and Ali Dawa and Daniel Haikikachu and all

1478
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,479
these guys on the front line. So it's actually it's

1479
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,039
a it's it's much better, much better.

1480
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 3: What what's your What do you think is the reason

1481
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,960
that the the sort of Salafi mind mindset kind of

1482
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,399
came to the forefront funding aulogetics, just funding.

1483
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 2: No, I'd say what I'd say, uh, funding plus plus

1484
01:23:01,159 --> 01:23:04,399
it's it's it's way easier to defend it from the

1485
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,279
Islamic sources like you get that sort of idea from

1486
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:11,560
if you just go as straightforward Karan and Spooney Hadith collections,

1487
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,199
it's way easier to defend some sort of like slif

1488
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:20,600
if not necessarily Sulafi Islam something Sulafie like and so

1489
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:22,039
if you in other words, if you get an argument

1490
01:23:22,039 --> 01:23:23,439
with hey, no, I believe Islam is a religion to

1491
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:25,279
peace and Muhammed would never do anything like this. And

1492
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:28,079
these guys, we can quote our sources saying you're you're wrong,

1493
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,239
and you've got an audience watching these guys win. The guys,

1494
01:23:31,279 --> 01:23:33,000
the guys, the hardliners win.

1495
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, well played his clip here quickly, which is off.

1496
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,359
Tristan chate as far as I remember, this should be

1497
01:23:41,399 --> 01:23:44,600
a section. Uh yeah, no sense, very good.

1498
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 2: Safety a professional everyone.

1499
01:23:48,119 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, he said, Tristan, you ever gonna revert to Islam?

1500
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:55,159
It's by a Muslim scholars on Islam since getting out

1501
01:23:55,199 --> 01:23:57,520
of jim and I was actually quizzed by a Muslim

1502
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,760
scholar who lives in the United Bearer memorates. He said,

1503
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,199
trist you ever gonna revert to Islam? And I said

1504
01:24:02,239 --> 01:24:05,399
to him, I said, reversion or conversion to any religion.

1505
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,720
I don't believe it's something that you do. I believe

1506
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,199
it's something that happens to you if you look into it,

1507
01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:16,119
you read about, you read the Bible, you read about

1508
01:24:16,279 --> 01:24:18,640
you know Christianity, you read about the life of Jesus Christ.

1509
01:24:19,119 --> 01:24:19,880
You don't think you know what.

1510
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:21,119
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a Christian.

1511
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:23,560
Speaker 4: I feel like it's something that would have to happen

1512
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:25,880
to me, not something i'd choose to do. And I've

1513
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:27,880
even had people say, oh, you know, your life would

1514
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,880
be better if you revert to Islam, because you know

1515
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,000
there'd benefits of you living in the Middle East, etcetera.

1516
01:24:33,039 --> 01:24:35,640
And I said, no, no, no, how disingenuous would that be

1517
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,359
to my Muslim friends and colleagues, of which I have many,

1518
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:43,600
to revert for any beneficial reason other than me genuinely

1519
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:44,600
feeling it within my soul.

1520
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:46,279
Speaker 3: So that's the.

1521
01:24:46,279 --> 01:24:49,640
Speaker 4: Reason I haven't, not because I haven't chosen to, but

1522
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,000
because it hasn't happened.

1523
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 3: To me, right, So that means it could.

1524
01:24:52,159 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. He says, he has been given this,

1525
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:59,239
this whole reasoning of having certain benefits in the Middle

1526
01:24:59,279 --> 01:25:02,640
East if he converts to Islam. But it would be,

1527
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,840
of course, very disingenuous to convert to Islam after he

1528
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,680
was told by these rich men in the Middle East,

1529
01:25:09,359 --> 01:25:12,119
you know, to convert to Islam just because of benefits.

1530
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:17,399
But here's the question that I have. Who else converted

1531
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:19,640
to Islam?

1532
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:23,079
Speaker 2: All his brother that's your thing I'm thinking about. I'm

1533
01:25:23,079 --> 01:25:27,279
thinking about how disingenuous of it, how disingenuous of me

1534
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:30,199
would it be if I converted to a religion for

1535
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:32,359
all these benefits when I could get all that money

1536
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:37,680
from sex trafficking. Come on, people.

1537
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:43,239
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. That is that is very very true. Jay,

1538
01:25:43,319 --> 01:25:46,000
What do you think what happened to the one eighty eight?

1539
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:47,680
I don't want to make this a whole piling on

1540
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:50,079
Jay live stream here. This is not what we're for.

1541
01:25:50,319 --> 01:25:53,199
Speaker 3: So uh is fine. I don't care.

1542
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:59,279
Speaker 1: So the one actually thousands of Christians living in Israel,

1543
01:25:59,319 --> 01:26:03,920
including about twenty to thirty thousand Orthodox, if Israel fails.

1544
01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:06,880
But this is actually kind of a question that we

1545
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,680
didn't get into that I would be curious talking about

1546
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:11,880
at some point why. I kind of briefly did talk

1547
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:15,319
about this with you in spaces several months ago. But

1548
01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:19,439
I guess, like if you are opposed to to Israel,

1549
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,600
and what you think would happen if the if Israel

1550
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:24,399
had got destroyed and the Christians there were affected by this?

1551
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is no easy answer to what

1552
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,199
would happen if Israel weren't there. I don't know exactly

1553
01:26:32,279 --> 01:26:35,079
what would happen. There's arguments that there would be, you know,

1554
01:26:36,039 --> 01:26:40,239
various Islamic states taking over. That's very possible. I don't

1555
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:43,239
think it's likely that Israel would fail with the power

1556
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:46,760
and the you know, the structure that Israel has in place,

1557
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:50,039
and you know, the Demona program, all that stuff. I

1558
01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:54,640
don't think that's very likely. So I'm not I think

1559
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,039
that the reality is that Israel's there. It's not very

1560
01:26:57,119 --> 01:26:58,800
likely to think, oh, let's get rid of it. It's

1561
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:01,119
going to go away. It's not going to happen. So,

1562
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:04,880
you know, there has to be some kind of attempt

1563
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,039
to deal with the reality as it is. I think

1564
01:27:07,079 --> 01:27:11,640
that Western powers, the CIA, many entities, presidents have been

1565
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,199
trying to solve that issue for many years. Uh. You know,

1566
01:27:15,279 --> 01:27:18,720
the Camp David Accords were not very popular with the

1567
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,159
Israeli right, and that's the precise of the reason for

1568
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:26,039
the the both the you non plan and the clean

1569
01:27:26,079 --> 01:27:28,359
Break plan. So I don't have any easy answers to

1570
01:27:28,359 --> 01:27:30,479
that question. I am aware of the Orthodox Christians that

1571
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,920
are there, but I don't know. I don't have any

1572
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:34,920
easy answers to.

1573
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:37,359
Speaker 2: That because because there because there isn't one, you don't

1574
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,079
you don't, we don't actually know, So like like a

1575
01:27:40,159 --> 01:27:43,439
couple couple different directions you go. So lots of people

1576
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,640
would point out Ah, But there were Christians and Muslims

1577
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,600
and Jews living there before, so why wouldn't it continue

1578
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:50,760
on like that? Well, there's a different situations. Back then,

1579
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,520
it was part of the empire. Yeah, back then it's

1580
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:57,039
under the Ottoman Empire, and the Ottoman Empire generally generally

1581
01:27:57,119 --> 01:27:59,479
wants people not getting out of line, so there's something

1582
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:01,880
to main kain maintain control. But that's kind of the

1583
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:06,199
real issue, Like what would Israel be replaced by, because

1584
01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:09,239
if it's if it's if it's some group that will

1585
01:28:09,279 --> 01:28:12,960
control the jihadis then okay. As matter of fact, since

1586
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,479
we were talking about this earlier, like like Western nations

1587
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,359
doing things and then not foreseeing the consequences or for

1588
01:28:18,399 --> 01:28:22,520
seeing the consequences and you know, doing messed up things.

1589
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,279
But like with Saddam Hussein, in the minds of lots

1590
01:28:26,279 --> 01:28:28,520
of Westerners, like what worked for us, We'll get rid

1591
01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:30,920
of the get rid of the tyrant, and then freedom

1592
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,920
and democracy will flourish, because that's what human beings want.

1593
01:28:34,399 --> 01:28:36,800
And so in the minds of lots of Americans, Oh,

1594
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,640
it's this great idea, get rid of Saddam Hussein. Hey,

1595
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:42,000
guess what evil tyrant? Yeah, do not I do not

1596
01:28:42,199 --> 01:28:45,880
like that guy, but he's also the guy who is

1597
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:50,239
controlling the jihatis in his population, and so we think, hey,

1598
01:28:50,239 --> 01:28:52,720
get rid of get rid of the evil dictator, and

1599
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,479
get rid of him, and then freedom and democracy will flourish.

1600
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,319
And so we get rid of him, and then people

1601
01:28:58,359 --> 01:29:00,920
start bombing each other's mosques, and we're going, what's going

1602
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:04,000
on here? Well, well, you had you already had the

1603
01:29:04,039 --> 01:29:06,319
people who wanted to bomb the other people's mosques there.

1604
01:29:06,319 --> 01:29:08,159
They were just terrified of a guy who would come

1605
01:29:08,159 --> 01:29:10,560
and like send tanks into their town if they did so,

1606
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,399
they were there were more concerned about that. And then

1607
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:15,399
you take that guy out of the way, and oh,

1608
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:17,319
let's put a Western friendly guy in that. They're not

1609
01:29:17,359 --> 01:29:19,520
scared of that guy. They're not scared of him, and

1610
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,880
so they can start they can start destroying, destroying each other,

1611
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:24,399
and eventually you get something like isis. You get something

1612
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:29,359
like isis. So the situation is like, if Israel failed,

1613
01:29:29,359 --> 01:29:30,680
who's going to be in charge? Is it going to

1614
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,439
be some brutal guy that we would look at and go,

1615
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:36,439
this guy was just just an evil tyrant, but he's

1616
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,359
able to maintain some level of control. Or is it

1617
01:29:39,399 --> 01:29:41,319
going to be chaos and everyone's just slaughtering each other,

1618
01:29:41,359 --> 01:29:43,920
in which case the most brutal jihadis are are around.

1619
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,359
And so so anyway, it's a we don't we don't

1620
01:29:46,399 --> 01:29:48,439
know what would replace it, So you don't know.

1621
01:29:49,399 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 1: On the on the Saddam issue. We're talking about this

1622
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,239
briefly earlier. But one thing that is very difficult about

1623
01:29:54,239 --> 01:29:58,239
the whole Saddam problem is that while it is true

1624
01:29:58,279 --> 01:30:00,439
that that there have been lots of of that, there's

1625
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,399
that there have been lots of you know, operations and

1626
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:08,880
you know attempts to somehow use Saddam or or use

1627
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:12,159
his downfall or make him fall in order to achieve

1628
01:30:12,199 --> 01:30:14,920
some strategic goals in them at least so them himself

1629
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:19,119
was a really really messed up guy, and with more,

1630
01:30:19,279 --> 01:30:22,159
more and more power, he really got out of hand

1631
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:28,319
and did some really horribly atrocious things like massacring entire

1632
01:30:28,359 --> 01:30:33,560
populations under his control, uh gassing the Jews, not the

1633
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:38,439
gassing the Kurdish population there and uh and actually committing

1634
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:45,279
a genocide against him the sea, the Halapa massacre. He

1635
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,960
used actually weapons of mass destruction chemical weapons are described

1636
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:54,640
as uh turning a turning a river completely red by

1637
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:58,800
you know, bombing them, killing them, poisoning them and so there.

1638
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:00,960
So there is some really really the messed up stuff

1639
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:03,680
that came with with Saddam. This also makes the whole

1640
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:06,800
thing complicated, the whole Iraq War complicated, because when we

1641
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,359
talk about the Iraq War nowadays, we talked about how

1642
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:14,239
there was the the lie that that that that Saddam

1643
01:31:14,319 --> 01:31:17,920
had weapons of mass destruction. The issue is that Saddam

1644
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:21,199
did use weapons of mass destruction in the past and.

1645
01:31:21,199 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 3: Well, but that those those chemical weapons were from the

1646
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,199
CIA because he was originally put in hey with the

1647
01:31:27,239 --> 01:31:31,039
Bathists were the older CI plan for the Middle East

1648
01:31:31,199 --> 01:31:32,720
called pan Arabism.

1649
01:31:33,039 --> 01:31:37,079
Speaker 1: And the thing is, before the war started, he also

1650
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:43,319
several times openly openly bragged about supposedly developing weapons of

1651
01:31:43,359 --> 01:31:46,199
mass destruction and having weapons of mass destruction. Now here's

1652
01:31:46,239 --> 01:31:48,439
the issue. Here's of course, where I agree and where

1653
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:52,840
I where I see a problem. The US and Israel

1654
01:31:53,199 --> 01:31:57,279
and the others would have had the capabilities to know

1655
01:31:57,359 --> 01:32:00,920
that he was just bluffing so that he didn't actually

1656
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,319
have weapons of mass destruction, or that he wasn't actually

1657
01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:08,800
close to developing weapons of mass destruction. So I think

1658
01:32:09,239 --> 01:32:13,199
things get a little bit blurry when the war starts

1659
01:32:13,279 --> 01:32:16,560
because of the suspicion that he has weapons of mass destruction,

1660
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:20,560
because with also this justification that he openly brags that

1661
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,000
he has weapons of mass destruction, but Western intelligence and

1662
01:32:24,119 --> 01:32:26,119
Israeli intelligence should have been aware at the point that

1663
01:32:26,159 --> 01:32:28,880
he was just bluffing that he actually didn't have anything

1664
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:30,079
at all.

1665
01:32:30,159 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because he did have at

1666
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:37,119
one point chemical weapons, as you said, that were used,

1667
01:32:37,199 --> 01:32:41,520
and those were provided by the CIA. But then the

1668
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:47,000
intelligence that came about him having the WMDs in two

1669
01:32:47,039 --> 01:32:50,359
thousand and three, when Colin Powell presents that the UN

1670
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:52,760
Security Council, what's funny is that I was just reading this.

1671
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:54,920
But this is my third book, by the way, so

1672
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,840
this is the official historian of British intelligence, the names

1673
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,479
Christopher Andrew. But he wrote a separate book on movies

1674
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,520
and intelligence, which is just curiously what my books are about.

1675
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:09,600
But he says, I'm not alleging a conspiracy, but he

1676
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,159
says that what was funny about the intelligence relating to

1677
01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:15,039
the WMD's. I don't mean to make light of it,

1678
01:33:15,079 --> 01:33:16,800
but this part actually is kind of funny, is that

1679
01:33:17,319 --> 01:33:19,960
when Colin Powell presented this It came from an anonymous

1680
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:25,520
source that British intelligence was providing to the CIA, and

1681
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:30,119
this anonymous source was quote fabricating the intelligence. And one

1682
01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:31,399
of the ways that they figured out that it was

1683
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,760
fabricated in two thousand and three was because the messages

1684
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:38,640
that were being sent were just so happy, just so

1685
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:44,199
happened to be identical to the type of gas balls

1686
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:49,000
that Nicholas Cage had in The Rock. And so this

1687
01:33:49,079 --> 01:33:52,960
isn't admission from official British intelligence historian. There they're talking

1688
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:54,680
about how the Rock, if you remember, in the Rock,

1689
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:56,920
Nick Cage has these those green balls of gas that

1690
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:00,840
are going to destroy San Francisco, and he's saying that

1691
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:04,039
we realized that this intel was fake because he wait

1692
01:34:04,039 --> 01:34:05,159
a minute, that's from the Rock.

1693
01:34:05,239 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 1: That's not definitely that's yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. So something

1694
01:34:13,039 --> 01:34:19,880
was obviously, So we would agree that that the nations

1695
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,920
in question basically took advantage of just hints of intelligence

1696
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,520
or hints of supposed information, you know, to start the war,

1697
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:29,359
which they thought would be would be very beneficial in

1698
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:31,920
order to achieve certain goals in the Middle East. Right,

1699
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:35,920
since your flashing books, I also want to flash this

1700
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,079
book here, which is the Damascus Events. Not sure if

1701
01:34:38,079 --> 01:34:39,720
you have if you have heard of it or read it.

1702
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:42,960
It's about events in the in the mid or late

1703
01:34:43,359 --> 01:34:47,359
eighteen hundreds were since we were talking about the piece

1704
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,000
under the Ottoman Empire. It's a very very interesting book.

1705
01:34:51,039 --> 01:34:53,880
It starts with a dispute between the Jewish population and

1706
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:58,079
the Christian population on Lebanon and then quickly unfolds into

1707
01:34:58,079 --> 01:35:02,720
a whole massacre of Christians in at Mount Lebanon first,

1708
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:06,239
and then throw out Damascus in Syria, where Muslims then

1709
01:35:06,279 --> 01:35:09,840
start jumping in and basically just picking Christians off this

1710
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,319
off the street and killing them, raping them and so on,

1711
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:17,640
where they start seeking refuge and the few who help them.

1712
01:35:18,199 --> 01:35:21,800
The Ottomans come in try to initially stop it, but

1713
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:25,880
then don't actually bother and just start watching what happens,

1714
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:29,439
until eventually the Western forces land and come in and

1715
01:35:30,199 --> 01:35:33,720
put an end to it and kind of with pressure

1716
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,920
forced the Ottoman Empire to stop the massacres from happening.

1717
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:40,560
It also kind of displays how the Ottoman Empire was,

1718
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:44,880
how the populations, the Middle Eastern populations, the other populations,

1719
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:48,960
including the Muslims and the others really didn't like the Ottomans,

1720
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,359
and they all had They all shared the opinion that

1721
01:35:51,359 --> 01:35:56,520
these are just a bunch of oppressive bastards who are

1722
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:58,760
just keeping us all in line for their own pleasure

1723
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,640
and taking advantage of us and exploiting us. So nobody

1724
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,000
liked the Automance and they were all just uh, they

1725
01:36:04,039 --> 01:36:06,720
all had big resentment and hostility to work the elements.

1726
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:12,560
Speaker 3: The hobby Salafi and those groups would fight the Ottomans

1727
01:36:13,159 --> 01:36:15,159
m hm. And that's why the British thought that they

1728
01:36:15,159 --> 01:36:16,800
would be a good ally against the Ottomans.

1729
01:36:17,279 --> 01:36:17,920
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

1730
01:36:18,399 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 1: I just wanted to show that, just to show that

1731
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:21,560
I also have books.

1732
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:23,520
Speaker 3: So yeah.

1733
01:36:24,079 --> 01:36:26,239
Speaker 2: I always think though, like if it was really important,

1734
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:27,439
people would put it in videos.

1735
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:32,319
Speaker 1: So good point, uh, Ap and j D. Can you

1736
01:36:32,399 --> 01:36:34,680
find a fun and genial topic to debate on like

1737
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:38,119
David Wood and Robert Spencer did on skyprofits existence that

1738
01:36:38,279 --> 01:36:40,800
was awesome? I don't think so.

1739
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:48,279
Speaker 3: Uh. It probably to be pretty niche because we have

1740
01:36:48,399 --> 01:36:51,079
to get nished to figure out an area of disagreement.

1741
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're uh, they're that specifically because they brought up

1742
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,439
me and Robert. That sounds like they're looking for something

1743
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:01,359
where people are happy who ever wins. So me and

1744
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,840
Robert debated whether Muhammad existed. Robert argued that he didn't.

1745
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,800
I said he did because who would have written? Who

1746
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,880
would have made up a profit? This embarrassing? So people

1747
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,279
are happy either, I think I think they're thinking something

1748
01:37:13,319 --> 01:37:16,119
like that, like if you guys disagreed on something, but

1749
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:20,039
they'd be happy whoever whichever side won well.

1750
01:37:20,079 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 3: And that when I was debating all the tiny mustachemen people,

1751
01:37:26,199 --> 01:37:28,439
A lot of people's issue with me saying that the

1752
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:34,000
Bank of England funded tiny mustache man. So Ap might

1753
01:37:34,039 --> 01:37:39,199
take issue with to what degree I don't know world

1754
01:37:39,239 --> 01:37:44,800
War two was desired by certain elites versus not. Maybe

1755
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:48,760
he would take issue with specifics what we kind of

1756
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:52,479
agreed on al Qaeda. I don't know how far he

1757
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:54,880
would disagree with ISIS or something.

1758
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:56,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Hey, if you guys debated, if you

1759
01:37:56,680 --> 01:38:02,439
guys debated, if you guys debated, fura ap should do

1760
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,800
the entire thing with a little mustache and in uniform

1761
01:38:06,119 --> 01:38:08,399
and that would make it like really hilarious and he

1762
01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:11,520
could just be flipping out. But do it in with

1763
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:13,239
a heavy German accent.

1764
01:38:13,039 --> 01:38:13,640
Speaker 3: The entire tack.

1765
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:17,199
Speaker 1: That'd be very nice, very nice. Hats on death says,

1766
01:38:17,239 --> 01:38:19,319
we can all agree that your cub is controlling everyone.

1767
01:38:19,399 --> 01:38:23,199
This is true, Uh, Jay, I heard, I hear that

1768
01:38:23,239 --> 01:38:24,720
you're also a very big friend of your cub.

1769
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:31,039
Speaker 3: I'm a secret Society proponent. I mean I believe in

1770
01:38:31,039 --> 01:38:33,840
secret society is and the real Illuminati control is your cube.

1771
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,359
That's the big reveal that I was waiting to tell

1772
01:38:36,399 --> 01:38:38,800
you guys. So I started with the Illuminati card deck,

1773
01:38:39,039 --> 01:38:42,079
and I don't have my Yakub card because it's too

1774
01:38:42,199 --> 01:38:43,880
secret to actually have a card for it. So it

1775
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:46,279
has to be taught orally. It's an oral gnostic secret.

1776
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 1: I see, I see, I actually have a song about Yakub.

1777
01:38:50,039 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 2: Of course you controlled everything. He's got two brains.

1778
01:38:59,399 --> 01:39:02,399
Speaker 1: From the black kim Mold mine like the furnace prophetic

1779
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,479
Necker clue patent or fifty nine k fowl stilled the

1780
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:09,159
lab nation true dud Bold crafted genes like a cryptic hymn.

1781
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:12,560
Click the melanin limb by limb, flip the script on

1782
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:13,600
a godly whim.

1783
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 4: Six hundred years that the graft begin from Jeff blackmous to.

1784
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 1: A tip so yeah, this is how it goes. Yakuba

1785
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:24,840
himself instructed me to write this last spicy Rahman, look

1786
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:28,600
at this too, so orthodox? Now look at David's such

1787
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:31,279
a cookie. Loving one another through disagreements is how we

1788
01:39:31,359 --> 01:39:36,399
are christ like all eyes on Christ yep, yep. And

1789
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:38,039
as an Orthodox, this makes me happy. We need to

1790
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:39,920
be united against all those who hate Jesus and bring

1791
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,920
over as many commerce as we can. Love you, brothers, Okay,

1792
01:39:43,399 --> 01:39:44,720
maybe you can find a place to fight.

1793
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:45,039
Speaker 2: Okay.

1794
01:39:45,119 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: So here's Jay.

1795
01:39:47,039 --> 01:39:48,159
Speaker 3: So you know that I am.

1796
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:50,159
Speaker 1: You know that I'm a big fan of Israel and

1797
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:57,680
of Jews. Uh, what is your position on whether Israel

1798
01:39:57,760 --> 01:39:58,840
has a right to exist?

1799
01:40:02,359 --> 01:40:04,640
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone. I've not hurt anyone who thinks

1800
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:05,680
that they shouldn't exist.

1801
01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:08,720
Speaker 2: Is that Zionist case closed?

1802
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,720
Speaker 3: Before there was Zionism, Jews existed and had a right

1803
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:15,520
to exist, He.

1804
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:16,079
Speaker 2: Said, Israel.

1805
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:17,720
Speaker 1: No, I mean the nation of Israel.

1806
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:19,720
Speaker 3: The nation Israel is prior to Zionism.

1807
01:40:21,359 --> 01:40:23,800
Speaker 2: It means Israel. Now does Israel have a right to exist?

1808
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:25,239
Speaker 1: Wait, wait a minute, are you saying that that the

1809
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,920
that the that the nation of Israel has a like?

1810
01:40:29,039 --> 01:40:32,479
Are you are you talking about the past ancient Israel,

1811
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:34,560
or are you just talking about the people of or

1812
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:36,439
the Jews as a collective as Israel.

1813
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 3: I'm speaking of the Jews as a collective known as

1814
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:44,039
the Israelites. They have a right to exist. I think

1815
01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:46,640
that the nation state of Israel is a real politic

1816
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:49,319
that is there. It's not going anywhere, so there's not

1817
01:40:49,359 --> 01:40:51,600
really any point in talking about it quote not existing.

1818
01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:53,920
I don't think that makes any sense. I do think

1819
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:58,680
you could debate to what degree the US has a

1820
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:02,560
duty to use tax money, you know, to support Israel.

1821
01:41:02,680 --> 01:41:06,279
I agree, and even the Liqud party actually was arguing

1822
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:10,479
very early on that in order to become self sufficient,

1823
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,920
Israel would need to separate itself from US tax money.

1824
01:41:14,239 --> 01:41:16,079
Speaker 1: This is a very very important thing, which I was

1825
01:41:16,159 --> 01:41:19,079
kind of surprised to find out that that it was

1826
01:41:19,159 --> 01:41:22,119
actually very early on part of the Liqud government's policy

1827
01:41:22,119 --> 01:41:27,079
and is today still among the conservative right winger wants,

1828
01:41:27,159 --> 01:41:32,000
the more nationalist types in Israel, it is a very

1829
01:41:32,039 --> 01:41:35,920
big thing to be insisted on to completely sever themselves

1830
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:40,399
from any foreign funding. And the idea is basically so

1831
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:45,640
that the hardline conservative right in Israel doesn't want any

1832
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:50,680
US funding and whenever Israel asks for anything, there is

1833
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:53,399
a huge opposition that comes from that camp because they

1834
01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:57,079
say any kind of funding coming from a foreign nation,

1835
01:41:57,199 --> 01:42:00,880
no matter if there are allies or not, simply makes

1836
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:04,159
us more dependent, and we don't want any more dependence.

1837
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:06,479
We want to get rid of foreign funding.

1838
01:42:07,479 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, labor Zionism is the thing that's critiqued in Natanyahu's

1839
01:42:12,159 --> 01:42:15,520
Clean Break strategy in nineteen ninety six, and that's socialism.

1840
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:19,319
And I'm not socialist. I'm not pro socialist. I've never

1841
01:42:19,399 --> 01:42:23,279
thought that's a wise idea. But yeah, both that on

1842
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:28,079
the non plan talk about trying to get to economic independence.

1843
01:42:28,319 --> 01:42:33,399
So yeah, I mean, I think it also mentions that

1844
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:37,000
it's a tough sell. I think it's the Clean Break paper.

1845
01:42:37,119 --> 01:42:39,439
It mentions that it's a tough sell in the US

1846
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:45,880
to the US population if Israel constantly relies on US

1847
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,600
tax money. So it's it's a complex issue. But you know,

1848
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:54,319
the US also uses that money for influence everywhere. So

1849
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:59,039
money is given to every country in varying degrees, whether

1850
01:42:59,079 --> 01:43:02,600
it's Ukraine, whether it's Columbia, or whether it's Egypt. You know,

1851
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:06,399
a lot of soft power is exercised through the US

1852
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:10,239
giving aid money, and I would be for kind of

1853
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:13,359
scaling back all of that to everybody. I don't think

1854
01:43:13,399 --> 01:43:15,399
we need to try to have a US empire. So

1855
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:18,600
I'm much more of a non interventionist in terms of

1856
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:20,840
how I would argue this foreign policy stuff.

1857
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:25,640
Speaker 1: Here's one genuine, actual thing this time I'm not bringing

1858
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:29,319
up to fight, but just out of curiosity, because this

1859
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:32,960
is something that often is brought up to me as

1860
01:43:33,159 --> 01:43:37,279
somebody who goes into the Orthodox Church. So I talked

1861
01:43:37,319 --> 01:43:40,399
about this very very much with my own spiritual father,

1862
01:43:41,399 --> 01:43:45,000
who knows about my position. He even watched my debate

1863
01:43:45,039 --> 01:43:48,000
with Andrew Wilson and told me what he thought about it,

1864
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:50,359
which is kind of funny because he's just like old

1865
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,680
guy and apparently sat there and watched that debate. And

1866
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:56,039
once I found out that he watched it, I was like,

1867
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:59,399
I'm very sorry that I lost my patience during that.

1868
01:44:02,359 --> 01:44:09,159
But so people, many people have this tendency to because

1869
01:44:09,199 --> 01:44:12,520
of my decision to go into the Orthodox Church, to

1870
01:44:12,680 --> 01:44:16,279
tell me that my position of supporting, you know, Israel's

1871
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:19,600
right to exist as we speak, and by Israel, I

1872
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:22,880
mean I'm specifically bring up to the nation state of

1873
01:44:23,039 --> 01:44:25,359
Israel as it is a secular state of Israel as

1874
01:44:25,399 --> 01:44:28,640
it exists right now. So they say that that my

1875
01:44:30,399 --> 01:44:34,600
idea of supporting or actively supporting that state's right to

1876
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,840
exist and to defend itself is incompatible with Orthodox Christianity.

1877
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:41,720
And as I look at that question and and talk

1878
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:44,199
about it with my spiritual father and with others, you

1879
01:44:44,279 --> 01:44:46,439
know that I trust in terms of Orthodoxy, they say

1880
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:48,640
that this is a big misunderstanding, that there is no

1881
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:51,800
actual contradiction here, that there would be only a contradiction

1882
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:54,279
if I held a theological Zionis position.

1883
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:58,239
Speaker 3: So well, I think the Orthodox Church is the third

1884
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:03,640
third largest land own in Israel. It would be a

1885
01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:08,239
huge mess if everything suddenly changed and there was no

1886
01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:10,920
more Israeli government, there was no government at all. It

1887
01:45:11,319 --> 01:45:13,479
became a sort of a chaotic war zone. I don't

1888
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,359
think the Patriarch of Jerusalem would want that. So I

1889
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:21,000
think even if the Holy Separical Sepulcher Church, if the

1890
01:45:21,039 --> 01:45:24,880
Patriarch of Jerusalem, you know, if these different entities rely

1891
01:45:25,119 --> 01:45:27,920
on the existing structure to a degree, I think most

1892
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:31,520
people probably would not want some sort of uh collapse

1893
01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:35,640
or you know, any kind of Islamic regime. That said,

1894
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:40,600
I don't think that precludes criticism of the existing government decisions,

1895
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:44,880
which I do think many Orthodox leaders do engage in.

1896
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:49,439
I would not call Nozraela a martyr. I don't know

1897
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:51,680
why people would say that. Maybe there's maybe there's some

1898
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:55,079
broader use of the term martyr that that is common

1899
01:45:55,119 --> 01:45:58,279
amongst Arabs. I don't know, but I've always understood morder

1900
01:45:58,319 --> 01:46:02,119
to be in a religious context, so I wouldn't use

1901
01:46:02,119 --> 01:46:04,399
that language. But at the same time, I have seen

1902
01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:08,640
the Patriarch of Jerusalem be critical of the decisions of

1903
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:11,159
the Knesset at times, and I don't think there's a

1904
01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:13,680
problem with that. So I would assume that your spiritual

1905
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:17,600
father is correct that the difference between Jews having a

1906
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:19,800
right to exist, which I think even the old the

1907
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:23,800
old Catholic position was that you have to believe that

1908
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:27,319
Jews have a right to exist. But that's not the

1909
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:31,319
equivalent to I must support as you said.

1910
01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 1: That's what Saint Augustine says. Yeah, that's that's fat.

1911
01:46:34,319 --> 01:46:37,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's always been I think the position,

1912
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:41,159
whether Latin or Eastern Catholic.

1913
01:46:42,359 --> 01:46:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1914
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:46,399
Speaker 1: So I don't fun fact, even the Knesset, the Israeli

1915
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:50,760
uh in Parliament building is directly on land owned by

1916
01:46:50,760 --> 01:46:54,880
the Orthodox Church, so, which is very very funny, and

1917
01:46:55,239 --> 01:46:58,159
I think it has a I think it is leased

1918
01:46:58,279 --> 01:47:01,119
until like for for for ninety nine years, since the

1919
01:47:01,239 --> 01:47:04,760
fifties or something like that. So, and this is why

1920
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,479
there has been also internal political struggles in the Orthodox

1921
01:47:09,039 --> 01:47:13,159
in the Jerusalem patriarchy, right from the more Arab anti

1922
01:47:13,279 --> 01:47:15,760
Zionist side to kind of have more influence and to

1923
01:47:16,439 --> 01:47:19,399
take control of the situation, whereas the more Hellenistic side

1924
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:20,960
or the more Hellenic site.

1925
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:25,600
Speaker 3: It was a huge, huge issue. Yeah. In fact, the

1926
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:31,920
Russian the MP also is interested in stronger alliances with

1927
01:47:33,119 --> 01:47:35,720
Jerusalem because in the wake of what happened in twenty

1928
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:38,640
fourteen Ukraine and the decisions of the EP and the

1929
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:44,319
State Department there, there was a sort of forced flipping

1930
01:47:44,399 --> 01:47:47,319
of many of the patriarch its between MP or EP

1931
01:47:48,279 --> 01:47:52,439
and the Alexander patriarch, which was previously very pro MP,

1932
01:47:53,039 --> 01:47:57,039
flipped towards pro US maybe four or five years ago.

1933
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:00,720
And then I think everybody's sort of trying to want

1934
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:05,319
to court Jerusalem patriarch it mm hmmmm.

1935
01:48:08,079 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so we've established that jade Hyer's a Zionist.

1936
01:48:11,039 --> 01:48:16,159
Speaker 2: Okay, good. Uh oh, little little little side note, it is, uh,

1937
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:19,720
it is lots of people agree on more than they

1938
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:23,880
think they agree on when they're they're arguing, like when

1939
01:48:24,039 --> 01:48:28,119
when like I'm a I'm a Zionist in pretty much

1940
01:48:28,159 --> 01:48:30,640
the same sense Sam Harris says that he's a Zionist,

1941
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:32,640
He's just like, yep, a ton of people want to

1942
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:35,079
kill these guys, so it's good that they have a

1943
01:48:35,159 --> 01:48:38,560
spot where they can actually not be killed if things

1944
01:48:39,039 --> 01:48:42,479
if things head south. And so I'm like, yeah, I

1945
01:48:43,119 --> 01:48:45,720
agree with that. So yeah, I'm on board with the Zionism.

1946
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:47,159
And then I you know, if I not know, I'm

1947
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:49,800
it got this from the Schofield Bible and I'm trying

1948
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:51,399
to bring about the Antichrist and stuff like. It was

1949
01:48:51,399 --> 01:48:52,680
like but I don't believe. I didn't say I'm leaving

1950
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:55,800
any of that stuff. So anyway, but you know, you

1951
01:48:56,039 --> 01:48:58,560
you sit down and you find out, oh do we

1952
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:02,039
we agree that they have a right to exist? Yeah, okay, okay,

1953
01:49:02,119 --> 01:49:03,560
that's kind of It's kind of all I was saying

1954
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:04,439
there anyway.

1955
01:49:05,399 --> 01:49:09,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, well again it's Harry because Ionism is, you know,

1956
01:49:09,479 --> 01:49:14,239
historically a political movement, and even the Rothschilds themselves didn't

1957
01:49:14,279 --> 01:49:16,800
want to support initially Zionism. They don't want to get

1958
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:21,960
involved in the politics. But by the time of you know,

1959
01:49:22,840 --> 01:49:29,079
Hertzel Beingurian, Beingurian basically pronounces, you know, the Zionist project

1960
01:49:29,159 --> 01:49:32,600
underneath the giant banner of Hertzel. I don't see how

1961
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:36,680
any Christian could support that ideology because it's an atheistic,

1962
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:40,720
socialistic ideology, and even the LACUD wanted to move away

1963
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:44,960
from the labor socialist ideology that undergirded that. I mean,

1964
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:47,079
if I don't have the book yet, it's going to

1965
01:49:47,079 --> 01:49:53,279
be here tomorrow, but I bought Hesse's Roman Jerusalem, which

1966
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:54,680
will be here tomorrow.

1967
01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:59,399
Speaker 2: Well, the idea is that like there's like Zionism means

1968
01:49:59,399 --> 01:50:01,359
a bunch of different things, right Like in the past,

1969
01:50:01,399 --> 01:50:03,800
it would have been hey, yeah, heay, we need to

1970
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:06,600
get this and you can have different Hey, we believe

1971
01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:09,279
that this belongs to us from God and that we

1972
01:50:09,359 --> 01:50:10,840
need to take it for that and other people, know,

1973
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:13,079
we just need a place where we can uh not

1974
01:50:13,239 --> 01:50:15,479
be at the mercy of other people. And then you

1975
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:19,000
could have like a Christian a Christian Zionism, uh, and

1976
01:50:19,119 --> 01:50:22,119
then you could you could just yeah, you could just

1977
01:50:22,199 --> 01:50:24,279
be of that. So anyway, the point is that things

1978
01:50:24,319 --> 01:50:26,159
that have happened in the past, like we need to

1979
01:50:26,359 --> 01:50:28,720
get this land, those are two different things. Like even

1980
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:32,000
Christopher Hitchins said, I wouldn't supported Christopher Hitchens once you

1981
01:50:32,039 --> 01:50:33,920
said I didn't, I wouldn't support what they did to

1982
01:50:34,119 --> 01:50:36,319
to get it. But this is the reality of the

1983
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:40,560
of the situation we're in right now that they have

1984
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:43,479
this place, and yeah, it's really good that they that

1985
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:45,319
they have that. So any you can have a ton

1986
01:50:45,399 --> 01:50:47,960
of different positions in there, but a bunch of those

1987
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:49,920
would all be there would be a bunch of positions

1988
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,239
that are all some form of Zionism. And it's like

1989
01:50:52,319 --> 01:50:55,159
when you say when you say the word, when you

1990
01:50:55,239 --> 01:50:57,319
say the word, people think you mean one of these

1991
01:50:57,359 --> 01:50:59,800
other things and not always like what you mean.

1992
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:03,600
Speaker 1: Here is a super chance which says Jake makes grandios

1993
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:05,640
claims about Judaism, but he doesn't even read Hebrew to

1994
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:07,199
read the tact That is arrogance and English.

1995
01:51:07,239 --> 01:51:09,560
Speaker 2: I think this is about Jake Shields or Jake the

1996
01:51:09,640 --> 01:51:10,560
Muslim metaphysician.

1997
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:15,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly based Jay. Pretty pretty much the whole thing

1998
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:19,000
with Zionism, with the terminology is what's actually very interesting.

1999
01:51:19,119 --> 01:51:22,000
Is so there are religious Jews who are very much

2000
01:51:22,039 --> 01:51:26,239
anti Zionist, who are kind of the minority of religious Jews,

2001
01:51:26,279 --> 01:51:29,560
but then there is also the religious Zionist section and

2002
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:34,960
religious Jews who actively support the policies and the existence

2003
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:38,000
of the of the nation state of Israel. But even

2004
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:42,920
among the religious Zionists people or those who don't call

2005
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,920
themselves directly Zionists, but who are who are kind of,

2006
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:48,199
you know, proud and supportive of the State of Israel,

2007
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,840
they generally have a big problem and kind of a

2008
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:57,479
little bit of hostility toward historic Zionism, which they will

2009
01:51:57,479 --> 01:52:00,840
also often often bring up, so they specific call themselves

2010
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:04,399
religious Zionists or just uh, you know, Israel or just

2011
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:11,479
israelis because they associate the Zionism specifically with the socialist,

2012
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:15,840
secularist Zionist at the beginning, where they say that that

2013
01:52:17,399 --> 01:52:20,279
that while it is good to establish the modern state

2014
01:52:20,359 --> 01:52:25,000
of Israel, Zionism is basically in its original form a

2015
01:52:25,119 --> 01:52:26,840
curse and one of the main reasons why we're in

2016
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,720
all this trouble and so on. So the it gets

2017
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:32,680
really really complicated with the terminology.

2018
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:35,479
Speaker 3: You've got these the Torah true Torah Jews that are

2019
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:38,680
you know, anti Zionists, and they point that they're not

2020
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:40,960
supposed to that. Their argument is a no, Jews should

2021
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:44,960
be there until the Messiah is here. Yeah, and then

2022
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,800
you've got I want to ask you what is the

2023
01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:50,439
general Hasidic position, because I know you had looked into

2024
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:55,640
some of their theology. What's their position on political Zionism.

2025
01:52:56,319 --> 01:52:59,119
Speaker 1: So that it's it's kind of complicated. If you have,

2026
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:03,279
for example, the Habbard movement that are very much generally

2027
01:53:03,439 --> 01:53:08,119
pro Israel politically seen, but what they do, for example,

2028
01:53:08,239 --> 01:53:10,520
is they usually align with the others in that they

2029
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:16,199
don't officially or publicly associate themselves with political things. And

2030
01:53:16,319 --> 01:53:19,600
Habbard centers, for example, you will see that they generally

2031
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:23,279
view Israel favorably, but they have a policy of not

2032
01:53:23,399 --> 01:53:25,800
allowing Israel flags for example inside.

2033
01:53:26,399 --> 01:53:28,319
Speaker 3: But what's the reasoning for the because and some of

2034
01:53:28,359 --> 01:53:30,319
them won't fight in the war, right like they won't

2035
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:32,000
do the idea of service.

2036
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,600
Speaker 1: Right because they think that think they think that that

2037
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:40,000
basically the so they think that as people who devote

2038
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:44,359
themselves to following the commandments of God, they have a

2039
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:48,479
responsibility of continuing the heritage and commandments of God. Properly

2040
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:52,720
and to simply devote themselves to a religious existence of

2041
01:53:53,039 --> 01:53:58,319
upholding the Jewish culture and its continue continuity, while leaving

2042
01:53:58,399 --> 01:54:03,680
the fighting to others. For example, politically, they think that

2043
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:08,560
while they can support the nation state of Israel because

2044
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:11,439
now it is already there, they wouldn't have probably supported

2045
01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:14,319
the Zionist movement, but now that it is there, they

2046
01:54:14,399 --> 01:54:18,520
support its existence, but they don't want to be political

2047
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:20,880
about it and don't want to weigh flags, for example.

2048
01:54:21,119 --> 01:54:23,039
But then you also have other Hasidic groups that are

2049
01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:28,920
very explicitly anti anti Zionism, anti Israel directly, so it

2050
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:33,000
is rather complicated. But so those that are generally they're

2051
01:54:33,039 --> 01:54:37,920
generally described as the Haredi, the ultra orthodox section, those

2052
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:44,880
will usually be vary between anti Zionism and indifference to Zionism.

2053
01:54:45,159 --> 01:54:48,279
But the funny thing about this is that I talked

2054
01:54:48,319 --> 01:54:51,239
to doctor Annadwelf. She's a pretty good historic, very good,

2055
01:54:51,399 --> 01:54:54,560
very solid historian. Much respect to her. She mentions this

2056
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:59,840
funny thing, which is that even the anti Zionist jew

2057
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:03,840
eventually one zion isn't they just want it later, not now.

2058
01:55:04,039 --> 01:55:09,840
So that's kind of funny all about it. In one

2059
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:15,279
book does e does not equal fact other sources. Also,

2060
01:55:15,399 --> 01:55:18,279
we have to stop acting like Muslims have zero agency

2061
01:55:18,399 --> 01:55:21,600
and like they only react, never act. They don't have agency.

2062
01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:24,479
If they have no agency, they shouldn't have countries, or

2063
01:55:24,479 --> 01:55:26,520
they shouldn't have countries. Just kidding.

2064
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, I've got a lot of books. I don't

2065
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:31,600
have one book. I wouldn't think that one book is

2066
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:33,479
a proof of anything. It's just an evidence.

2067
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 2: And again, you don't need books if the important stuff

2068
01:55:36,640 --> 01:55:37,520
is all put in videos.

2069
01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:45,319
Speaker 1: Quay one question for ap and the Wood Doctor, the

2070
01:55:45,399 --> 01:55:48,680
Wood Doctor. Can Israel become wicked like in the scriptures?

2071
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:51,520
I'm glad you showed Jay Dyer. Tell Jim Bobs up

2072
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:53,880
for me? All one under Christ?

2073
01:55:56,640 --> 01:56:00,880
Speaker 2: Oh, anything involving human beings can't pick I'm really wicked

2074
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:01,600
really quick.

2075
01:56:02,119 --> 01:56:04,119
Speaker 1: But I wonder if I wonder if the question here

2076
01:56:04,199 --> 01:56:08,760
is more about, you know, like wickedness and a biblical

2077
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:13,520
sense as a or is it just about randomly becoming

2078
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:15,399
becoming a wicked I don't really know, but yeah, of

2079
01:56:15,439 --> 01:56:21,399
course there are different theories with there are different ideas

2080
01:56:21,439 --> 01:56:23,760
with the role of the Jewish people and Israel and

2081
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:28,600
their role. Until things are wrapped up in the end right,

2082
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:31,840
such as that they still kind of play a role

2083
01:56:32,079 --> 01:56:35,520
in a sense and go through things eventually to them

2084
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,600
be reconciled, and and all that, and much of it

2085
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:41,239
is a mystery to us, as you must.

2086
01:56:41,399 --> 01:56:46,119
Speaker 3: Most of the Eastern Church fathers are pretty adamant that eventually,

2087
01:56:46,159 --> 01:56:48,600
at some point the Jews will convert, and how that

2088
01:56:48,640 --> 01:56:51,479
will come about, we don't know. But basing it on

2089
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:54,800
Romans eleven, you know John Damasca, Saints Earl of Alexandria,

2090
01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:59,039
most church fathers talk about that can future conversion. When

2091
01:56:59,199 --> 01:57:02,319
they leave unbelief, they are able to be grafted back in.

2092
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:08,000
So it's entirely possible that today's nation state of Israel

2093
01:57:08,319 --> 01:57:11,039
could play a future role in that. But we don't

2094
01:57:11,079 --> 01:57:12,720
know how that will be. But that is the Orthodox

2095
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:14,960
position generally speaking.

2096
01:57:15,439 --> 01:57:17,199
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask a theoretical question, but I'm not

2097
01:57:17,239 --> 01:57:19,079
sure if I'm supposed to speculate on this. Even so,

2098
01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:24,279
the thing is, I guess, in my preparation for the

2099
01:57:24,359 --> 01:57:26,439
debate with Andrew Wilson, I kind of read through the

2100
01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:30,000
Romans nine through eleven like so many times that I

2101
01:57:30,119 --> 01:57:32,199
kind of burned a certain part of it into my head,

2102
01:57:32,239 --> 01:57:34,760
which is that that this is a that a certain

2103
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:38,359
part of it is a mystery, as Saint Paul calls it,

2104
01:57:39,720 --> 01:57:44,279
that there is a partial blindness until the fullness of

2105
01:57:44,319 --> 01:57:47,199
the Gentiles has been grafted in, and then the remainder

2106
01:57:47,279 --> 01:57:49,760
will be grafted in. But he calls it a mystery.

2107
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:51,600
And then if it is a mystery, to what extent

2108
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:52,960
can we then really speculate about it?

2109
01:57:53,439 --> 01:57:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? Anyway, But I just.

2110
01:57:58,239 --> 01:58:01,640
Speaker 1: Want to say it anyway. So I read this one position,

2111
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:05,520
which also comes from certain certain Greek patriarchs, which is

2112
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:10,359
that that it could be possible that from a purely

2113
01:58:10,439 --> 01:58:15,720
Christian perspective, while the while the Jews are expecting a Messiah,

2114
01:58:16,479 --> 01:58:20,960
and while the expectation then traditionally associated with that would

2115
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:24,159
be that an Antichrist would come forth, it would it

2116
01:58:24,199 --> 01:58:26,520
could be entirely possible that in the end there is

2117
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:29,159
an expectation of a Messiah by the Jews, but then

2118
01:58:29,199 --> 01:58:30,720
it turns out that the Messiah that is coming is

2119
01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:34,079
actually Christ himself who comes and reconciles everybody, or something

2120
01:58:34,199 --> 01:58:36,239
like that. But I think two understanding, this is just

2121
01:58:36,279 --> 01:58:39,319
one of the many speculations, and not sure what you

2122
01:58:39,359 --> 01:58:39,800
think about it.

2123
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:42,199
Speaker 3: It's a good little book put out by jordan Bilt

2124
01:58:42,239 --> 01:58:45,800
Monastery called Apostasy and Antichrist, And it just basically as

2125
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:49,520
quotes from Orthodox saints and elders and church fathers on

2126
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:52,600
this point. And it's pretty unanimous that some of the

2127
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:55,000
signs towards the end would be the rebuilding of a

2128
01:58:55,039 --> 01:58:59,239
new temple. It is, in the Orthodox tradition generally speaking,

2129
01:58:59,319 --> 01:59:03,159
believed to be an Antichrist temple. So we're not dispensationless,

2130
01:59:03,239 --> 01:59:05,760
but there are certain points where we would agree with

2131
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:10,039
that aschaetological position of the anti Christ the new Temple.

2132
01:59:11,399 --> 01:59:15,159
But again it's pretty clear. I'm not seeing any church

2133
01:59:15,199 --> 01:59:17,880
of others that comment on it that don't believe in

2134
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:21,680
a future conversion of the Jews, so they will be

2135
01:59:21,760 --> 01:59:24,479
grafted back in. And in Rome's eleven Pole describes that

2136
01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:26,000
as life from the dead.

2137
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:29,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Saint John Chris Astmen says, if it hasn't

2138
01:59:29,560 --> 01:59:31,479
happened yet, it definitely will happen.

2139
01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:39,039
Speaker 2: So well, even even with the even with saying that

2140
01:59:39,159 --> 01:59:42,159
it will be Jesus, you know you've got Jesus saying

2141
01:59:42,159 --> 01:59:43,720
you won't. You won't see me again until you say

2142
01:59:43,760 --> 01:59:45,439
blessed to see who comes in the name of the Lord.

2143
01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:48,319
You have things that actually can occasionally sound like that.

2144
01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:54,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, the text from Zechariah where they appierce me, you

2145
01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:57,359
know those who look upon me, those that appears to

2146
01:59:57,399 --> 02:00:00,520
me to look upon me. Saint Cryle Alexandria says, that's

2147
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:02,760
also a text of the future conversion of Jews, which

2148
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:04,840
is interesting because I don't think most of the other

2149
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:05,720
church fathers said that.

2150
02:00:07,359 --> 02:00:09,800
Speaker 1: Uh, this is an authoral stream now, yes it is,

2151
02:00:10,760 --> 02:00:14,920
uh elite Chris ade Jay refute the Yakoub fallacy.

2152
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:18,199
Speaker 3: There is no fallacy because there's only one Yakub and

2153
02:00:18,279 --> 02:00:19,119
we are underneath him.

2154
02:00:19,319 --> 02:00:24,000
Speaker 1: So happy to be a fallacy, Uh, sanch Japan's As

2155
02:00:24,039 --> 02:00:26,439
a loyal Jewish friend, I'm disappointed to see my friends

2156
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:29,479
Ap and David giving a platform to j who Jay,

2157
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:32,199
who is revealing all of our genocidal satanic secrets to

2158
02:00:32,239 --> 02:00:34,560
the world. We have nowhere left to hide now but

2159
02:00:34,680 --> 02:00:37,239
behind the gargage tree. I'm sorry to hear that, but

2160
02:00:40,039 --> 02:00:41,399
that's what's supposed to happen in the end.

2161
02:00:41,479 --> 02:00:43,640
Speaker 3: Sancho doesn't sound like a Jewish name. That sounds like

2162
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:45,640
a name, so I don't know about that.

2163
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:55,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Fishermen's Corner Western what what something happened to you, David.

2164
02:00:57,640 --> 02:00:58,920
We can hear you listening something.

2165
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:02,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Oh, I don't know. I was just saying

2166
02:01:02,680 --> 02:01:04,159
that that sounds like something that you would do.

2167
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:09,960
Speaker 1: He's a Sancho name Fisherman's corner. Western Catholics regained their

2168
02:01:10,079 --> 02:01:13,000
Pope kingship from Mussolini. The Third Reich means the third

2169
02:01:13,119 --> 02:01:14,359
Holy Roman Empire.

2170
02:01:15,560 --> 02:01:18,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Hitler might have thought that he was going

2171
02:01:18,279 --> 02:01:21,199
to create a new Byzantine Empire. That doesn't mean that

2172
02:01:21,279 --> 02:01:25,359
it's Christian because he called it that. And I don't

2173
02:01:25,399 --> 02:01:28,000
know what pope kingship means. I'm no idea.

2174
02:01:30,680 --> 02:01:32,680
Speaker 1: Jay won the debate. He has more books behind him.

2175
02:01:34,119 --> 02:01:35,000
I'm not sure if well.

2176
02:01:35,039 --> 02:01:38,359
Speaker 3: We ended up agreeing on quite a bit. So when

2177
02:01:38,439 --> 02:01:38,680
really a.

2178
02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:43,840
Speaker 1: Debate, we're actually fighting but nobody's realizing it. And then

2179
02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:45,560
this is going so well. David's going to send Jay

2180
02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:52,079
an artsa box for his birthday. Nice orthor Joe. I

2181
02:01:52,239 --> 02:01:54,279
owe a lot to Jay. He's the reason I left

2182
02:01:54,359 --> 02:01:58,880
Protestantism and converted to Orthodoxy, and it's the greatest thing

2183
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:01,800
in my life. And when I saw your first posts

2184
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:04,920
about Orthodoxy, API gave deep thanks to the to our

2185
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:07,960
Lord for giving me a wonderful brother.

2186
02:02:08,279 --> 02:02:08,520
Speaker 2: Thank you.

2187
02:02:08,520 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate that David is getting really angry about this

2188
02:02:11,079 --> 02:02:11,359
right now.

2189
02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm about to explode.

2190
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:20,159
Speaker 1: See thank you, Thank you, Orthodore. Appreciate that David says

2191
02:02:20,199 --> 02:02:22,279
I heard that Bronze Age Mindset is a good book.

2192
02:02:22,359 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 3: Thoughts, I don't know anything about it.

2193
02:02:27,159 --> 02:02:31,079
Speaker 1: Powerful elies. Thanks for having mister Dier and he's the

2194
02:02:31,119 --> 02:02:33,840
reason I've returned to church and I'm converting to Orthodoxy.

2195
02:02:34,119 --> 02:02:38,359
Very nice, very nice, uh tadrum. Jay won the debate.

2196
02:02:38,479 --> 02:02:40,359
H I already read this. Jay's gonna crush you guys

2197
02:02:40,399 --> 02:02:43,720
with his Yacoobian cringe core magic. Love all the three

2198
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:45,960
of you. You've all had a big and positive impact

2199
02:02:45,960 --> 02:02:47,840
throughout my life. God, bless you. Chance called bless you

2200
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:48,840
to thank you. Appreciate that.

2201
02:02:49,159 --> 02:02:51,600
Speaker 2: Is there a reason more that yakub stuff comes up?

2202
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 3: Now? It's a meme. But I guess a lot of

2203
02:02:55,039 --> 02:02:59,680
my audience really likes that. Joe is that?

2204
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:01,920
Speaker 2: But is that the same as like the five Percenters,

2205
02:03:01,960 --> 02:03:06,880
the Nation of Islamia Cube, the two Brain Okay, okay, yeah,

2206
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:09,640
I didn't know if that was a different, different different

2207
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:11,960
I don't know if there were multiple Yah cubs we're

2208
02:03:12,199 --> 02:03:13,520
We're on the same yakub page.

2209
02:03:14,439 --> 02:03:16,720
Speaker 1: There's only one year cub. What are you talking about? Uh?

2210
02:03:17,680 --> 02:03:20,760
Saw him twenty two sixteen eighteen says shot fired. He's fuming,

2211
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:24,199
you see, yeah, David, He's David just fuming or tick.

2212
02:03:24,359 --> 02:03:27,359
So ye enough friendly conversations start to fight. Also, Jay

2213
02:03:27,399 --> 02:03:30,079
and Chad, do we do have any papers books on

2214
02:03:30,239 --> 02:03:33,560
tag apart from me Vis and deconductor as work.

2215
02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:36,960
Speaker 2: That's transcendental argument ap I mean, I had no idea.

2216
02:03:37,399 --> 02:03:41,520
Speaker 3: There's Bonson's Always Ready, There's John Frame's books, there's Van

2217
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:44,439
Hill's Apologetic. I mean, those are all all Protestant books.

2218
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,800
But that's the only ones I'm aware of.

2219
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:53,000
Speaker 1: So just because I said I set stuff about this

2220
02:03:53,399 --> 02:03:59,000
very very briefly in past live streams, I know that

2221
02:03:59,079 --> 02:04:01,479
there is a that there was a disagreement on using

2222
02:04:01,720 --> 02:04:06,760
theological arguments, uh or in logical arguments in an Orthodox

2223
02:04:06,920 --> 02:04:11,279
Christian framework, And kind of as I'm looking into into

2224
02:04:11,479 --> 02:04:14,479
into orthodoxy and the history of Orthodoxy with with theology,

2225
02:04:14,560 --> 02:04:17,800
with theology and with using you know, logical arguments for

2226
02:04:18,079 --> 02:04:21,279
God and all that, I see that there's kind of

2227
02:04:21,359 --> 02:04:25,319
a kind of a divide between how Eastern theology is

2228
02:04:25,359 --> 02:04:26,880
one in the Western theology is one, and there is

2229
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:30,000
a general then there is a a sentiment expressed by

2230
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:34,720
certain you know, fathers and others, and later on Orthodox

2231
02:04:34,760 --> 02:04:38,640
scholars in the East that that the whole rationalism is

2232
02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:42,079
kind of a Western mindset of trying to put God

2233
02:04:42,159 --> 02:04:44,399
and all that into into into words and positives and

2234
02:04:44,439 --> 02:04:47,920
all that, whereas the East is more uh more about

2235
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:51,399
my mystic, mystical and mystery. I also find found that

2236
02:04:52,039 --> 02:04:54,680
Callistus were for example, that brings us up in one

2237
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:58,239
of his books on the Introduction to Orthodoxy. I think

2238
02:04:58,279 --> 02:05:04,560
it's in the Orthodox way. So when I see, for example,

2239
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:10,039
your approach with the transcendental arguments, it strikes me as

2240
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:16,239
not fitting into what I like how I perceive Orthodox theology.

2241
02:05:17,439 --> 02:05:19,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that it's a little bit of

2242
02:05:19,560 --> 02:05:22,920
a misunderstanding, because it's true that there have been many

2243
02:05:23,039 --> 02:05:25,960
church fathers and saints and elders who weren't interested or

2244
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:30,359
that adept with that stuff, and that's fine, but there's

2245
02:05:30,399 --> 02:05:34,560
a whole host of Orthodox Church fathers, saints and theologians

2246
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:38,680
who were. So for example, the Cappadocians were very philosophical

2247
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:42,520
in their approach. Saint Gregor Nissa has a gigantic you know,

2248
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:46,199
in our page refutation of Eunomius, that's probably the most

2249
02:05:46,520 --> 02:05:50,079
technical philosophical book you'll ever read, Say with Saint Maximus.

2250
02:05:50,159 --> 02:05:54,159
He uses a lot of arguments from geometry, arguments from

2251
02:05:55,239 --> 02:05:59,520
you know, even like Pythagoreanism to kind of get into

2252
02:06:00,039 --> 02:06:03,720
ways to demonstrate the trinity. If you go to you know,

2253
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:07,000
Saint John Damascus's classic book, Fount of Knowledge, this is

2254
02:06:07,039 --> 02:06:09,359
a really important text which the very beginning page has

2255
02:06:09,399 --> 02:06:12,159
a transcendent argument on it, the very first page, and

2256
02:06:12,279 --> 02:06:15,000
he gets that from Aristotle. So transcendent arguments or retortion

2257
02:06:15,640 --> 02:06:19,399
is actually in metaphysics. So it's it's something that all

2258
02:06:19,439 --> 02:06:22,600
the church fathers that were very adept in Greek philosophy,

2259
02:06:22,760 --> 02:06:24,159
not all of them were, but the ones that were,

2260
02:06:24,359 --> 02:06:28,079
like John Damascus or Sat Maximus a confessor, they have

2261
02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:32,199
a tendency to utilize these these points and these principles. Likewise,

2262
02:06:32,359 --> 02:06:37,279
Saint Photius was the most learned man Byzantheum, very philosophical.

2263
02:06:38,239 --> 02:06:42,039
Even Gregor Palamas, Saint Gregor Palamus, who's the most mystical theologian.

2264
02:06:43,079 --> 02:06:46,000
His treat Us against the Philioque is called the apdict

2265
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:49,680
that treat Us and Apidicti refers to Aristotian logic, so

2266
02:06:49,960 --> 02:06:54,359
he uses a Oristilian logic to prove that the Latin

2267
02:06:54,479 --> 02:06:57,800
conception of the philioquay is wrong. So I would say

2268
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,920
that the Orthox tradition is just broad than the idea

2269
02:07:01,039 --> 02:07:05,239
of being purely mystical. And also it's a misnomer to

2270
02:07:05,359 --> 02:07:11,880
say that that being scholastic is not the same thing

2271
02:07:11,920 --> 02:07:17,279
as scholasticism and rationalism. So using reason is necessary, it's

2272
02:07:17,319 --> 02:07:21,319
part of the Patristic heritage, and apologetic. It has its limitations,

2273
02:07:21,359 --> 02:07:24,039
but that's not the same thing as rationalism from like

2274
02:07:24,319 --> 02:07:28,039
Kant or you know, any of the Enlightenment philosophers, And

2275
02:07:28,159 --> 02:07:32,039
scholasticism from a Quinas or any of those characters is

2276
02:07:32,119 --> 02:07:34,560
not the same thing as being scholastic like St.

2277
02:07:34,600 --> 02:07:38,840
Speaker 1: Photius was, which you think it would be that it

2278
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:42,800
would be completely natural or reasonable or understandable to go

2279
02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:46,720
into a rather to kind of reject that direction of

2280
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:49,600
theology and to go more into the like for a

2281
02:07:49,680 --> 02:07:54,520
person out of personal preferences when exploring religion, exploring Orthodoxy,

2282
02:07:54,560 --> 02:07:57,439
to go rather into the mysticism like I've recently been

2283
02:07:57,479 --> 02:08:00,439
interested very much still trying to explore and still have

2284
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:03,119
very limited knowledge off and want to kind of get

2285
02:08:03,159 --> 02:08:07,760
into reading more of Saint Maximus the Confessor, who seems

2286
02:08:07,800 --> 02:08:09,680
to be very who appeals.

2287
02:08:09,279 --> 02:08:12,720
Speaker 3: To me a lot with Yeah, the ambigua are again

2288
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:15,279
kind of like NISA's against you unomias if you get

2289
02:08:15,600 --> 02:08:20,760
Maximus's too Ambiguou. They're probably some of the most difficult

2290
02:08:21,159 --> 02:08:25,039
advanced texts that you can get from a philosophical perspective.

2291
02:08:25,079 --> 02:08:28,520
They're they're very hard to deal with. So I'm not

2292
02:08:28,600 --> 02:08:31,640
saying that you shouldn't read them. You definitely should. I

2293
02:08:31,720 --> 02:08:35,319
would start with Cosmic Mystery the Little Blue Saint Latimer

2294
02:08:35,399 --> 02:08:39,079
Seminary book first, because I think ambiguous is going to

2295
02:08:39,079 --> 02:08:41,840
be very, very challenging. It's challenging for me, and you know,

2296
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:46,079
I studied philosophy at at graduate level, so yeah, you're

2297
02:08:46,159 --> 02:08:48,800
going to find the richness of the Orthox tradition has

2298
02:08:49,000 --> 02:08:49,359
all of that.

2299
02:08:50,199 --> 02:08:52,960
Speaker 1: I just did something very basic and just decided to

2300
02:08:53,239 --> 02:08:55,039
because I came across it. There was a book that

2301
02:08:55,159 --> 02:08:58,319
is basically a compilation of quotes by him, so I thought,

2302
02:08:58,479 --> 02:09:00,439
I just I'll just start out with that. It's as

2303
02:09:01,039 --> 02:09:04,600
basic as rudimentary as as it can get that's exactly

2304
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:09,479
what I need right now. Jordan Floor's great point, David,

2305
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:13,039
I agree, See there was a good point. Yeah, moomoo,

2306
02:09:13,119 --> 02:09:17,600
Joe can so one some what so one some Jewia

2307
02:09:17,720 --> 02:09:19,640
family had money and power and they used it.

2308
02:09:20,159 --> 02:09:20,359
Speaker 2: I know.

2309
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:22,960
Speaker 1: So now Jews need to be genuine. The moments should

2310
02:09:23,000 --> 02:09:26,239
be free with rex and massive greers. Really, yeah, I

2311
02:09:26,239 --> 02:09:28,000
wouldn't say that. Anybody here would argue that. It's not

2312
02:09:28,039 --> 02:09:32,520
even Jay Dire. That's that's sound a pretty I don't.

2313
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:37,520
I don't mean not even Jaydyer, but uh so out

2314
02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:41,840
of us, nobody would argue that, except maybe j DR.

2315
02:09:45,399 --> 02:09:49,159
But yeah, yeah, whatever, I don't know what to say.

2316
02:09:49,920 --> 02:09:51,680
Do you do you have anything to say about that, Jane?

2317
02:09:51,720 --> 02:09:55,680
Speaker 3: I mean the argument was not, well, the Ros shows

2318
02:09:55,720 --> 02:09:58,479
had a lot of money and power and so that

2319
02:09:58,640 --> 02:10:01,279
makes everyone bad and they're for everybody today should be

2320
02:10:01,760 --> 02:10:03,960
you know, got rid of I'm never say anything as

2321
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:04,479
silly as that.

2322
02:10:05,119 --> 02:10:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if I had lots of power, and

2323
02:10:07,119 --> 02:10:08,960
if I had it from lot lots of power, I

2324
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:15,439
would probably want to get involved into influencing certain politics.

2325
02:10:15,039 --> 02:10:16,760
Speaker 3: Into with money and power.

2326
02:10:16,840 --> 02:10:17,359
Speaker 2: Does so.

2327
02:10:19,840 --> 02:10:21,880
Speaker 1: Javier said, this is cool, but everyone is here to

2328
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:26,720
hear about the twenty one martyrs. So here's the thing earlier, Yeah,

2329
02:10:26,720 --> 02:10:31,199
we did pretty much. Here here's the thing. When I

2330
02:10:31,279 --> 02:10:35,319
first heard about the twenty one martyrs, I had lots

2331
02:10:35,399 --> 02:10:38,720
of respect for them. As I go into the Orthodox Church,

2332
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:43,239
I still a very much respect for them. And as

2333
02:10:43,279 --> 02:10:50,119
I'm looking into iconography and kind of enriching my my home,

2334
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:53,920
our home, and my our prayer space with ic iconography,

2335
02:10:54,000 --> 02:10:56,800
I came across the icons on the off the twenty

2336
02:10:56,840 --> 02:10:58,359
one martyrs, and I saw that some of them are

2337
02:10:58,399 --> 02:11:02,439
even sold on very prominent etern Orthodox marketplaces and all that.

2338
02:11:02,600 --> 02:11:08,880
So what I initially immediately did was I asked my

2339
02:11:09,239 --> 02:11:15,359
spiritual father and said, so, since these people were not

2340
02:11:15,439 --> 02:11:19,319
from the Eastern Orthodox Church but from the Oriental, can

2341
02:11:19,439 --> 02:11:24,000
we consider them martyrs? And what he said is, of

2342
02:11:24,079 --> 02:11:26,920
course that there are different opinions and different views on this,

2343
02:11:27,079 --> 02:11:31,760
but while we don't include them into our official list

2344
02:11:31,880 --> 02:11:35,880
or calendar of martyrs, there is nothing wrong with regarding

2345
02:11:35,960 --> 02:11:41,000
them as martyrs and considering that they were specifically killed

2346
02:11:41,079 --> 02:11:43,680
because of their belief in Christ, and that they have

2347
02:11:43,840 --> 02:11:47,600
been even in the worst case, we would consider that

2348
02:11:47,840 --> 02:11:53,239
they have been baptized in blood. So he said, there

2349
02:11:53,319 --> 02:11:56,319
is nothing wrong with going ahead and considering them the martyrs.

2350
02:11:56,840 --> 02:11:58,760
But he also pointed out that there are of course

2351
02:11:58,800 --> 02:12:01,880
different opinions on this stuff. So to my understanding, I

2352
02:12:01,920 --> 02:12:05,119
wouldn't have a big problem with with you, for example,

2353
02:12:05,199 --> 02:12:09,520
stating that that we that we don't officially consider them

2354
02:12:11,039 --> 02:12:15,119
martyrs in the strict ecclesiastic sense.

2355
02:12:17,199 --> 02:12:19,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was, And I didn't when I mentioned

2356
02:12:19,960 --> 02:12:23,199
the Hezbola guy that was killed and that Hinkle was

2357
02:12:23,239 --> 02:12:27,560
calling a martyr. I wouldn't use that term for either

2358
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:34,319
Coptics or for Shia from the orthodox theological position. But

2359
02:12:34,439 --> 02:12:37,680
that doesn't mean that I know anyone's destiny. I don't

2360
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:40,920
know that. So that's the only sense that I've ever

2361
02:12:40,960 --> 02:12:43,359
even heard martyr use. But maybe there is this colloquial

2362
02:12:43,479 --> 02:12:45,279
sense where people use it, and just in the sense

2363
02:12:45,319 --> 02:12:47,119
of anyone dying for a cause. I mean, I guess

2364
02:12:47,119 --> 02:12:50,159
in that sense you could have Buddhist martyrs. I guess it.

2365
02:12:50,319 --> 02:12:53,000
Just it's an odd usage to me because I think

2366
02:12:53,039 --> 02:12:56,920
of it in terms of the calendar. But I don't

2367
02:12:57,000 --> 02:13:00,279
know the Coptic people's destiny. I mean, I would didn't.

2368
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:05,039
I wouldn't have a Coptic I would not honor the

2369
02:13:05,079 --> 02:13:09,159
Coptic Martyrs just because of the the theology of it,

2370
02:13:09,399 --> 02:13:11,399
the same way I wouldn't like I have, for example,

2371
02:13:11,399 --> 02:13:13,359
I have some of my old Roman Catholic stuff around,

2372
02:13:13,439 --> 02:13:18,079
Like I have an Aquinas icon up there, and I

2373
02:13:18,199 --> 02:13:20,720
kept it because it's, you know, part of my past.

2374
02:13:20,840 --> 02:13:24,640
It's my history being really into Tonism my twenties and whatnot.

2375
02:13:24,800 --> 02:13:26,840
But I'm not Roman Catholic anymore, and it's not it's

2376
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:30,800
not on my icon wall. But personally I wouldn't put, say,

2377
02:13:31,399 --> 02:13:35,239
the Coptic Martyrs on my icon wall. But if a person,

2378
02:13:36,319 --> 02:13:38,520
you know it's Phil's drawn to that and they you know,

2379
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:40,520
feel like that they did give their life for that,

2380
02:13:40,800 --> 02:13:41,800
I can't judge.

2381
02:13:41,520 --> 02:13:43,880
Speaker 2: You for that. Yeah, yeah, I have.

2382
02:13:44,039 --> 02:13:48,399
Speaker 1: I have an example of this one which uh so

2383
02:13:48,920 --> 02:13:54,479
Maximilian Colby. Yeah yeah, and kind of the same mindset.

2384
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:56,880
I guess where I wouldn't put this into my into

2385
02:13:56,920 --> 02:13:59,439
my my prayer corner. But I haven't just because I

2386
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:01,720
have respect respect for him and all that.

2387
02:14:03,600 --> 02:14:09,279
Speaker 3: I remember one time some of the extreme extreme Ortho bros.

2388
02:14:10,159 --> 02:14:13,119
Uh they saw my icon of Aquinas and they were

2389
02:14:13,279 --> 02:14:15,720
arguing that I was like still secretly a Roman Catholic,

2390
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:19,119
and I was like, it's not on my icon. Well, man,

2391
02:14:19,159 --> 02:14:21,039
it's it's on my it's on my bookshelf. What are

2392
02:14:21,039 --> 02:14:21,560
you talking about?

2393
02:14:22,920 --> 02:14:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, to be very honest, I also fell

2394
02:14:26,920 --> 02:14:30,079
into this very same thing when we started getting more

2395
02:14:30,119 --> 02:14:33,000
and more bitter toward each other. Uh before we ended

2396
02:14:33,079 --> 02:14:37,039
up kind of fighting the response that you gave when

2397
02:14:37,039 --> 02:14:39,800
I asked you about the twenty one about the Coptic Martyrs,

2398
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:44,279
which was kind of comparing them to his Bola leader.

2399
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:49,239
I I understand the context of what you were saying.

2400
02:14:49,520 --> 02:14:52,399
Speaker 3: I wasn't saying that, yeah, they're equivalent.

2401
02:14:52,640 --> 02:14:56,239
Speaker 1: Like, but I was understanding somebody who doesn't know the context,

2402
02:14:57,359 --> 02:15:01,960
that response seems really really bad. So I understand, and

2403
02:15:02,279 --> 02:15:04,119
I think I played into that as well, to be

2404
02:15:04,239 --> 02:15:08,840
very honest. You know, so we do things sometimes that

2405
02:15:08,920 --> 02:15:13,640
are pretty bad. Even I do things that are bad. Yeah, yeah, moomoo.

2406
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:13,880
Speaker 3: Joe.

2407
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:17,399
Speaker 1: Palestine is a project, Jordan is as well. USA is

2408
02:15:17,439 --> 02:15:19,840
a project as well. Should USA be removed because of

2409
02:15:19,880 --> 02:15:22,119
all the manipulations and games used in creating it?

2410
02:15:22,239 --> 02:15:25,600
Speaker 2: Yes? No?

2411
02:15:26,760 --> 02:15:29,119
Speaker 3: Yeah no, Well, I think the first time you came

2412
02:15:29,119 --> 02:15:32,520
out of space, I pointed out that, you know, Jews

2413
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:35,079
that are in Israel today had nothing to do with

2414
02:15:35,239 --> 02:15:38,560
what their great grandparents or great great grandparents decided anymore

2415
02:15:38,600 --> 02:15:41,560
than you know, me living in Tennessee, you know, as

2416
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:45,800
being Indian Land. You know, I can't control what my

2417
02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:49,439
great great grandparents did. So it's silly to do this

2418
02:15:49,560 --> 02:15:52,279
sort of social justice where you're blaming, where you blame

2419
02:15:52,319 --> 02:15:55,319
people for where they can't control where they were born.

2420
02:15:57,039 --> 02:15:59,359
But also I think that a lot of the history

2421
02:15:59,359 --> 02:16:02,479
of Israel has been not told or covered up, or

2422
02:16:02,520 --> 02:16:06,159
people gloss over it. So I try to be as

2423
02:16:06,199 --> 02:16:08,800
fair and as nuanced as possible, you know, looking at

2424
02:16:09,079 --> 02:16:13,279
the reality of history. So and and like we said earlier,

2425
02:16:13,399 --> 02:16:16,520
like I didn't argue that everybody should be gotten rid

2426
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:18,800
of or that everybody should move, or that everything should

2427
02:16:18,880 --> 02:16:21,239
change or there should be I don't. There is no

2428
02:16:21,359 --> 02:16:26,359
easy answer. And that's why, you know, politicians and bureaucrats

2429
02:16:26,439 --> 02:16:30,760
and power leads have been trying to trying to settle

2430
02:16:30,800 --> 02:16:31,960
this for for decades.

2431
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:36,920
Speaker 1: Teddy, says Pastor Randy Ball.

2432
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:40,840
Speaker 2: Do you still do that bit? I do?

2433
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:44,239
Speaker 3: Uh. And in fact, if you find an orthodoxy unconvinced thing,

2434
02:16:44,319 --> 02:16:46,079
I'm sure Pastor Randy would love to have you with

2435
02:16:46,159 --> 02:16:48,200
his church, ap.

2436
02:16:50,040 --> 02:16:52,760
Speaker 1: Maybe we can arrange a meeting between him shake.

2437
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:59,280
Speaker 3: By versus pastor, or they could have a Krislam alliance.

2438
02:17:01,280 --> 02:17:04,719
Speaker 1: Good idea fishermen's corner. Batman claiming because you have known

2439
02:17:04,760 --> 02:17:06,079
the setting of world history or what an I mean?

2440
02:17:06,479 --> 02:17:08,120
I guess there's a discussion here.

2441
02:17:08,040 --> 02:17:09,680
Speaker 2: That is being response to Batman Man.

2442
02:17:10,159 --> 02:17:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Batman is not here among us, so he probably

2443
02:17:13,719 --> 02:17:14,959
has important stuff to do right now.

2444
02:17:15,399 --> 02:17:15,639
Speaker 2: MT.

2445
02:17:15,799 --> 02:17:18,280
Speaker 1: There are between seventy and one hundred radical islam Bic

2446
02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:20,879
terrorist groups today. America is powerful, but we're not responsible

2447
02:17:20,920 --> 02:17:23,959
for all those Mooslimbs have agency, they use that agency

2448
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:28,159
to follow their book. True, true, true. I would say

2449
02:17:28,239 --> 02:17:34,760
for most terrorist organizations, ISLAMI terists organizations, I would say

2450
02:17:34,959 --> 02:17:37,760
the forces we talked about earlier on are not even

2451
02:17:37,799 --> 02:17:40,360
indirectly responsible for some day pretty much.

2452
02:17:40,399 --> 02:17:42,479
Speaker 3: Well in Islam, they don't have agency, do They aren't

2453
02:17:42,479 --> 02:17:46,719
there directly in an occasional sense, directly caused by Allah.

2454
02:17:47,600 --> 02:17:50,200
Speaker 1: Allah even determined this whole thing here right now that

2455
02:17:50,239 --> 02:17:53,799
we're doing so this was meant to. Allah even decided

2456
02:17:53,920 --> 02:17:57,920
that I will call myself a posted profit and talk

2457
02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:01,200
with trash about Islam. So hey, ap.

2458
02:18:02,399 --> 02:18:07,399
Speaker 2: So now discussion the other day with a group, but

2459
02:18:08,079 --> 02:18:11,040
l L pointed out, you know, l L I s

2460
02:18:11,079 --> 02:18:13,719
O Lohim, But she was pointing out, and I'm gonna

2461
02:18:13,719 --> 02:18:15,719
make a video it and I'm of course going to

2462
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:18,040
steal it, but she was pointing out. So you have

2463
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:25,920
this issue in the Quran that that they interpret as

2464
02:18:26,079 --> 02:18:29,920
Allah won't punish one person for the sins of another.

2465
02:18:31,680 --> 02:18:34,000
Each each person will bear his own burden. No one

2466
02:18:34,040 --> 02:18:36,639
shall shall bear the burden of another, says that repeatedly

2467
02:18:36,680 --> 02:18:39,440
in the Koran. But in the Hadith you have Mohammed

2468
02:18:39,479 --> 02:18:42,360
saying that Allah will punish Jews and Christians in hell

2469
02:18:42,520 --> 02:18:44,559
for the sins of Muslim So you have that there

2470
02:18:44,959 --> 02:18:46,959
and then so how do you reconcile those well, even

2471
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:50,200
in the Qur'an, interestingly, you have the idea that Allah

2472
02:18:50,239 --> 02:18:55,600
will punish people who cause other people to go astray.

2473
02:18:56,479 --> 02:18:59,280
So in other words, if you're the leader of a

2474
02:18:59,399 --> 02:19:02,319
cult and you lead someone astray, then you're going to

2475
02:19:02,479 --> 02:19:06,159
bear part of that person's punishment because you led that

2476
02:19:06,319 --> 02:19:10,879
person astray. And so l L was in a discussion

2477
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:13,479
during the live stream, and the Muslims first was flipping

2478
02:19:13,479 --> 02:19:15,399
out about the idea that Allah would punish one person

2479
02:19:15,479 --> 02:19:17,600
for the sins of another. Then they're pointing it out, Wait,

2480
02:19:17,600 --> 02:19:20,360
according to the Koran. According to the Koran, Allah will

2481
02:19:20,440 --> 02:19:23,920
punish people for the sins of others if they led

2482
02:19:23,959 --> 02:19:27,000
them astray. And so the Muslim finally agreed to that, Yes,

2483
02:19:27,079 --> 02:19:30,639
if someone leads someone else astray, then that person deserves

2484
02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:32,479
to be punished. And then LL pointed out, Wait a minute,

2485
02:19:32,520 --> 02:19:34,440
what about all these verses where Allah says that he's

2486
02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:38,200
the one who leads people astray? Yep, And then and

2487
02:19:38,239 --> 02:19:39,959
then a funny little I don't know how. It seems

2488
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:41,559
like something I would have picked up on at some point,

2489
02:19:41,559 --> 02:19:43,600
and I never picked up on it that according to

2490
02:19:43,600 --> 02:19:45,920
the Koran, Allah is the one who leads everyone astray,

2491
02:19:45,959 --> 02:19:49,319
who goes astray, and therefore a law, Yeah, he has

2492
02:19:49,360 --> 02:19:52,479
to punish himself. How would he do that? Hey, Allah,

2493
02:19:52,520 --> 02:19:56,840
I got an idea. You could enter creation and accept

2494
02:19:56,879 --> 02:19:57,399
your punishment.

2495
02:19:57,680 --> 02:19:59,920
Speaker 1: A lot does not enter creation except when he comes

2496
02:20:00,079 --> 02:20:02,319
down to listen to the prayers at a part of tonight.

2497
02:20:02,399 --> 02:20:03,920
Speaker 2: Well, one of these days, when he's down here listening

2498
02:20:03,959 --> 02:20:07,079
to prayers, he needs to taking medicine.

2499
02:20:07,600 --> 02:20:10,239
Speaker 1: He always comes down when it's a specific time off

2500
02:20:10,360 --> 02:20:14,520
the night. It's considering that it's always uh a specific

2501
02:20:14,600 --> 02:20:18,479
time of the night somewhere. He's always here. So logic

2502
02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:23,440
ignatio larios Yakoob's big head equal smart. This is indeed true.

2503
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:27,200
Speaker 2: Hey, APay, we need a we need some graphics computer

2504
02:20:27,319 --> 02:20:33,079
guy to make like a video, a video of Allah

2505
02:20:33,159 --> 02:20:36,879
going back and forth as you know, like have his

2506
02:20:37,000 --> 02:20:38,719
thrown up here and have the earth spinning and have

2507
02:20:38,879 --> 02:20:41,040
him like going up and down as the earth spins

2508
02:20:41,079 --> 02:20:43,879
and stuff like that, and following his following his trajectory

2509
02:20:43,879 --> 02:20:45,479
and stuff like that. Yeah, we look like he's bouncing.

2510
02:20:45,479 --> 02:20:48,040
He's going like this all the way around. Someone got

2511
02:20:48,120 --> 02:20:48,360
to do that.

2512
02:20:49,159 --> 02:20:51,799
Speaker 1: Songs of relief. The real was the friends we made

2513
02:20:51,840 --> 02:20:54,200
along the way. Speaking of God. Logic with Aidawa was

2514
02:20:54,239 --> 02:20:56,239
a great example of the ministry of reconciliation.

2515
02:20:56,799 --> 02:20:59,479
Speaker 2: Oh man, I gotta yeah, I was gonna make a

2516
02:20:59,559 --> 02:21:07,239
video on the on Ali Dawa whining about people ripping

2517
02:21:07,280 --> 02:21:09,680
the Kuran and stuff. When this guy like it's it's

2518
02:21:09,719 --> 02:21:11,920
a reaction to his behavior and his job's behavior that's

2519
02:21:11,959 --> 02:21:13,440
causing things like that. So he was gonna make a

2520
02:21:13,479 --> 02:21:16,040
video of that about that. But then I finished watching

2521
02:21:18,159 --> 02:21:22,239
his debate with God logic. That was the most insane

2522
02:21:22,479 --> 02:21:26,879
massacre in the history of forever based on what Ali

2523
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:29,680
Dawa did. Ali Dawa brings a toy to explain how

2524
02:21:29,879 --> 02:21:32,399
a square can't be a triangle, and he brings him

2525
02:21:32,399 --> 02:21:37,000
this little kid. Did you see it? Ap Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

2526
02:21:37,000 --> 02:21:39,079
I think so, the square, the square and the triangle.

2527
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:42,639
Speaker 1: Yeah no, maybe maybe, I don't know.

2528
02:21:42,959 --> 02:21:44,719
Speaker 2: No, I think you would. You would remember it if

2529
02:21:44,760 --> 02:21:45,959
you did. So they had a two part They had

2530
02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:48,040
it one night and then Ali Dawa came back to

2531
02:21:48,200 --> 02:21:49,680
ye Oh.

2532
02:21:49,799 --> 02:21:51,719
Speaker 1: He gave him a gift. He gave him those things toy.

2533
02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:52,280
Speaker 2: Did you see that?

2534
02:21:53,360 --> 02:21:55,719
Speaker 1: I didn't see them on the package. I just saw them.

2535
02:21:56,120 --> 02:21:59,920
Speaker 2: Give it legendary. So Ali Dawa brings God Logic things.

2536
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:03,120
He said, oh, try to explain to you the different shapes. Yeah,

2537
02:22:03,479 --> 02:22:05,559
and he said, look, this one got a triangle in

2538
02:22:05,639 --> 02:22:07,159
it and this one got a square in it. The

2539
02:22:07,799 --> 02:22:10,000
square did not fit in the triangle and the triangle

2540
02:22:10,040 --> 02:22:12,600
don't fit in the square. You see, that's like Jesus,

2541
02:22:12,719 --> 02:22:15,719
divine nature is human nature can't go it's a contradiction, right,

2542
02:22:16,079 --> 02:22:19,360
And God logic goes, hey, Ali Dawa, what's the shape

2543
02:22:19,639 --> 02:22:22,719
of this toy? And he goes a square and he

2544
02:22:22,760 --> 02:22:25,559
goes and this is a triangle inside the square, right,

2545
02:22:25,760 --> 02:22:28,680
and it was just and the whole crowd goes, oh,

2546
02:22:29,719 --> 02:22:33,440
but he brought the toy to anyway, It's just it's

2547
02:22:33,559 --> 02:22:39,319
it's hilarious, diamanto stupidity, it's it's ridiculous. And the rest

2548
02:22:39,319 --> 02:22:42,360
of it was Ali Dawa just posturing and trying to recover.

2549
02:22:44,799 --> 02:22:46,879
Speaker 1: Sancha Panza said, Jay spend so much money buying all

2550
02:22:46,879 --> 02:22:48,760
the volumes with the tumuel that now you can't afford

2551
02:22:48,760 --> 02:22:51,040
a decent light. It's with her life to.

2552
02:22:52,799 --> 02:22:56,079
Speaker 3: So I'm at my other place and I have a

2553
02:22:56,200 --> 02:22:57,600
new camera on the way. I thought I was gonna

2554
02:22:57,600 --> 02:22:59,840
be here today, but it's gonna be here tomorrow and

2555
02:23:00,079 --> 02:23:02,440
then yeah, so that'll all be fixed this week.

2556
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:06,360
Speaker 1: And then it also says am israel Hi, I think this,

2557
02:23:06,399 --> 02:23:10,680
says Yeshua. Okay, so I guess this is a Christian person, Okay,

2558
02:23:14,520 --> 02:23:16,799
says like now people are going to say, look, how

2559
02:23:16,840 --> 02:23:19,920
can you read the smith? He the secret? You like

2560
02:23:20,040 --> 02:23:22,520
Patti Lupun that went on the view and said American

2561
02:23:22,600 --> 02:23:27,159
Christianity is no different from the Taliban. Smart, I don't

2562
02:23:27,159 --> 02:23:30,120
even know who that is MTJ. A book is the

2563
02:23:30,159 --> 02:23:32,159
equivalent of a blog. There is no barrier for entry

2564
02:23:32,239 --> 02:23:33,719
vanity publishing, other sources.

2565
02:23:35,280 --> 02:23:38,360
Speaker 3: Okay, so I guess every book is a blog equivalent.

2566
02:23:38,680 --> 02:23:41,520
I mean, there's a really good book everybody should read

2567
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:44,559
if you get time. People should work through Tragy how

2568
02:23:44,600 --> 02:23:48,799
it's a really important book. He was CFR archivist. He

2569
02:23:48,920 --> 02:23:51,639
was mentored Bill Clinton. That book was written for people

2570
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:56,399
going into international relations and foreign service. It's kind of

2571
02:23:56,440 --> 02:23:59,200
a CIA section chief book. That's not the equivalent of

2572
02:23:59,239 --> 02:23:59,600
a blog.

2573
02:24:00,159 --> 02:24:03,879
Speaker 2: He can do that, he said, really long blog.

2574
02:24:04,280 --> 02:24:06,079
Speaker 1: Okay, I have to explain to the chat there are

2575
02:24:06,760 --> 02:24:09,200
publishing houses that don't even read your material. You pay

2576
02:24:09,239 --> 02:24:11,239
them and they publish it. It's called vanity publishing, not

2577
02:24:11,440 --> 02:24:14,000
like textbooks. I'm glad you explained it because nobody else

2578
02:24:14,079 --> 02:24:15,000
understood what you were saying.

2579
02:24:15,000 --> 02:24:16,639
Speaker 2: But saying, wait, people can self publish.

2580
02:24:16,719 --> 02:24:20,879
Speaker 3: Then see, I have both, so I'm aware of that.

2581
02:24:21,000 --> 02:24:23,040
I have books that are self published and I have

2582
02:24:23,120 --> 02:24:24,440
a publisher, so I'm aware of it.

2583
02:24:25,680 --> 02:24:29,920
Speaker 1: Nice, you just scared, not, says David, sitting looking like

2584
02:24:30,040 --> 02:24:31,479
the cat that swallowed the canary.

2585
02:24:31,639 --> 02:24:31,959
Speaker 3: Lo ol.

2586
02:24:32,520 --> 02:24:35,479
Speaker 1: This was very early on. Meanwhile, David started talking did you.

2587
02:24:35,520 --> 02:24:39,639
Speaker 2: Say Cannery can't How do you say it? Canary?

2588
02:24:41,319 --> 02:24:42,760
Speaker 1: Don't make fun of me just because I can say.

2589
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:45,000
Speaker 2: Canary is a place back in the day where they

2590
02:24:45,200 --> 02:24:47,399
like put soup and jars and stuff.

2591
02:24:48,680 --> 02:24:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn.

2592
02:24:51,319 --> 02:24:52,920
Speaker 2: We'll learn to speak English man. What the heck you

2593
02:24:53,000 --> 02:24:53,399
been here from?

2594
02:24:53,399 --> 02:24:55,239
Speaker 1: We're trying to learn speaking English man. I mean it's

2595
02:24:55,280 --> 02:24:59,520
pro immigrant. I have privileges bright and rise, ap fautiful

2596
02:24:59,559 --> 02:25:02,760
peace come and protecting Christians from jihadiest way so hostile

2597
02:25:02,840 --> 02:25:05,680
to all Palestinian Christians online and won't talk to them.

2598
02:25:06,399 --> 02:25:09,200
Speaker 2: What are you talking about Palistanian Christians? Put together some

2599
02:25:09,319 --> 02:25:10,920
group of Palistanian Christians.

2600
02:25:10,840 --> 02:25:14,840
Speaker 1: Who am I askedar against How many Palestinian Christians are

2601
02:25:14,879 --> 02:25:17,399
there that I haven't talked to, or that I refuse

2602
02:25:17,479 --> 02:25:19,200
to talk to, that they are offered talking to me

2603
02:25:19,319 --> 02:25:22,319
that I haven't talked to. I don't know of any

2604
02:25:22,360 --> 02:25:26,600
such case. I don't have anything against them all the country.

2605
02:25:26,680 --> 02:25:31,559
I think I support them. I just think that they

2606
02:25:31,600 --> 02:25:35,399
are very often used in very very bad ways in

2607
02:25:35,559 --> 02:25:40,680
this whole conflict. For certain narratives, there are pretty much

2608
02:25:40,760 --> 02:25:44,040
no Christians in Gaza. There are Christians in the in

2609
02:25:44,159 --> 02:25:48,399
the in the West Bank. There are more Christians within

2610
02:25:48,440 --> 02:25:51,000
the borders of Israel. Most of them are supportive of

2611
02:25:51,000 --> 02:25:53,799
the Israeli state and so on, and I think it

2612
02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:57,680
would be in their best interest to dissociate themselves completely

2613
02:25:57,719 --> 02:26:02,280
from the Islamic terrorist movements and to to work for peace.

2614
02:26:02,840 --> 02:26:05,319
That's also what I said in my debate. But I'm

2615
02:26:05,319 --> 02:26:07,159
happy to talk to them as well.

2616
02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:09,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as Palasinian Christians, yet, there are lots

2617
02:26:09,959 --> 02:26:14,760
of Palaesinian Christians who would disagree with AP on Israel

2618
02:26:14,799 --> 02:26:18,120
and so on, And you can understand completely different perspectives.

2619
02:26:18,159 --> 02:26:21,639
I mean, when Hamas does something and Israel, you know,

2620
02:26:21,719 --> 02:26:25,920
sends a missile that way that can sometimes impact impact

2621
02:26:26,079 --> 02:26:29,360
Christians and you're looking around, what the heck, man, these

2622
02:26:29,399 --> 02:26:33,399
guys just bomb this place and so on. So understand, understand,

2623
02:26:33,920 --> 02:26:36,319
at the end of the day, we just think there's

2624
02:26:36,360 --> 02:26:39,120
no real future with Hamas in charge. So I would

2625
02:26:39,280 --> 02:26:42,680
still I would root for whoever's wrecking Hamas and so on.

2626
02:26:42,879 --> 02:26:44,399
But guess what, there are going to be people who

2627
02:26:44,399 --> 02:26:48,000
are caught in that crossfire. But there's no there's no

2628
02:26:48,159 --> 02:26:51,040
good situation, there's no good state of affairs that's going

2629
02:26:51,120 --> 02:26:54,600
to emerge with a terrorist group controlling the entire area.

2630
02:26:54,719 --> 02:26:57,120
It's just that, and that has to change or there's

2631
02:26:57,120 --> 02:26:58,000
no hope for anyone there.

2632
02:26:58,159 --> 02:26:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I brought this up in my debate and

2633
02:26:59,479 --> 02:27:04,399
also before or one example, speaking of Christians and Orthodoxy,

2634
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:13,239
Archbishop Alexios, he's in Gaza and he is directly responsible

2635
02:27:13,280 --> 02:27:15,440
for the for the oldest church in the region, the

2636
02:27:15,799 --> 02:27:20,479
same porphibious church there which which suffered damage during the

2637
02:27:20,559 --> 02:27:25,319
current war. He in twenty fourteen gave an interview to

2638
02:27:25,719 --> 02:27:30,200
I think CBN and said right there that that that

2639
02:27:30,440 --> 02:27:34,159
Hamas is as an Islamist group directly in charge, and

2640
02:27:34,239 --> 02:27:36,879
we have to do whatever they say. But he complained

2641
02:27:36,920 --> 02:27:39,920
and said that Hamas comes and uses the the church,

2642
02:27:41,159 --> 02:27:45,559
the church, the church compound to directly fire rockets at

2643
02:27:45,639 --> 02:27:48,920
Israel from there, and he knows that as a result

2644
02:27:48,959 --> 02:27:51,000
of that, Israel will have to fire back at some point.

2645
02:27:51,959 --> 02:27:55,879
So during the current ongoing war it happened, indeed Israel

2646
02:27:55,959 --> 02:27:59,120
didire Israel I think, didn't fire directly at the church compound,

2647
02:27:59,159 --> 02:28:00,959
but close by, and that as a result of that,

2648
02:28:01,920 --> 02:28:04,879
a building in the church compound collapsed and eighteen people

2649
02:28:04,920 --> 02:28:09,799
that were hiding there were sheltering there died. But as

2650
02:28:09,840 --> 02:28:12,600
a result of that, lots of Christians stood up and said,

2651
02:28:12,680 --> 02:28:15,879
and you know, lamented and said this war must and

2652
02:28:16,120 --> 02:28:18,559
what is this and so on. And I understand that,

2653
02:28:18,639 --> 02:28:22,040
and I just thind what's going on. But here is

2654
02:28:22,079 --> 02:28:26,040
the issue. You have the archbishop who said years before

2655
02:28:26,479 --> 02:28:28,680
that this was going to happen because Hamas was using

2656
02:28:28,719 --> 02:28:31,760
the site to fire at Israel. And Hamas is deliberately

2657
02:28:31,840 --> 02:28:34,280
doing that. So this is not just Israeli propaganda. It's

2658
02:28:34,319 --> 02:28:38,319
the archbishop himself, the Orthodox Christian archbishop in Gaza, saying

2659
02:28:38,680 --> 02:28:41,719
that Hamas is doing this and that this will happen.

2660
02:28:42,159 --> 02:28:44,719
When it then happens, everyone forgets about why it happened.

2661
02:28:46,000 --> 02:28:48,200
This is why it's in the best interest of the

2662
02:28:48,280 --> 02:28:52,399
Christians as well that this Islamist problem is dealt with

2663
02:28:52,520 --> 02:28:55,600
and peace is found. And I personally think that that

2664
02:28:55,799 --> 02:28:57,559
there is no peace to be found as long as

2665
02:28:57,600 --> 02:29:01,159
you have groups like Hamas or the the terrorists running around.

2666
02:29:01,600 --> 02:29:03,760
It would be it would be better for all of

2667
02:29:03,840 --> 02:29:06,319
it to be absorbed into one Israeli state that will

2668
02:29:06,360 --> 02:29:08,479
take care of the peace situation there, because with the

2669
02:29:08,639 --> 02:29:10,600
other side, it's it doesn't work. I'm sorry.

2670
02:29:11,719 --> 02:29:14,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, My my concern as far as like Christians in

2671
02:29:14,239 --> 02:29:18,920
the area is h I don't want Christians or the

2672
02:29:19,079 --> 02:29:23,760
Church to be pawns in the game of terrorists or

2673
02:29:23,840 --> 02:29:26,280
of anyone else, not of not of the not of

2674
02:29:26,319 --> 02:29:30,000
the jihadis, not of Israel or anything else. So but right,

2675
02:29:30,079 --> 02:29:33,040
I mean as far as how what's going on in

2676
02:29:33,360 --> 02:29:40,760
in Gaza, Yeah, Hamas has been using using Christians to

2677
02:29:40,959 --> 02:29:42,959
sway to sway global public opinion.

2678
02:29:44,399 --> 02:29:48,920
Speaker 1: You see, Jee, I don't know if you know the reference,

2679
02:29:49,000 --> 02:29:53,120
but this is a reference to this clip that I'm

2680
02:29:53,120 --> 02:29:54,959
just going to play quickly because I love it so much.

2681
02:29:55,520 --> 02:29:56,680
Speaker 3: You sick in the mind?

2682
02:29:57,200 --> 02:29:59,959
Speaker 4: Are you that mentally enslaved and intellectual?

2683
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:03,920
Speaker 1: He's observient and intellectually molested in the ideologically molested.

2684
02:30:04,760 --> 02:30:08,680
Speaker 3: Good point, by the way, I just realized he is

2685
02:30:08,840 --> 02:30:12,399
the Arab Yakub his head.

2686
02:30:12,559 --> 02:30:15,319
Speaker 2: He's worse is he needs to go back, go back,

2687
02:30:15,360 --> 02:30:16,040
go back, go back.

2688
02:30:16,360 --> 02:30:20,799
Speaker 3: He's Yakub for Arabs. You sick in the mind?

2689
02:30:21,319 --> 02:30:22,520
Speaker 4: Are you that mentally?

2690
02:30:23,440 --> 02:30:33,319
Speaker 3: You're right hiding two Brains's Mohammed Yakub, Mohammed Yakub, marky skipping?

2691
02:30:33,399 --> 02:30:35,639
Speaker 1: Why can't I ask Jay about R? O. C.

2692
02:30:37,760 --> 02:30:39,360
Speaker 3: Was that the Rusianodox Church. I don't care.

2693
02:30:40,719 --> 02:30:43,040
Speaker 1: I mean, was there a super chat that I skipped?

2694
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:44,079
Speaker 3: Maybe I did.

2695
02:30:44,280 --> 02:30:46,680
Speaker 1: I think I do remember skipping one super chat because

2696
02:30:46,680 --> 02:30:49,680
I thought it was laboratory super chat about the Russian

2697
02:30:49,760 --> 02:30:51,959
Orthodox Church. Maybe I did that.

2698
02:30:52,040 --> 02:30:54,040
Speaker 3: I don't know that Is it about the KGB and

2699
02:30:54,079 --> 02:30:56,760
all that, if people are interested. I did a pretty

2700
02:30:56,840 --> 02:30:59,879
lengthy interview with Met Fulton Jonah.

2701
02:31:00,239 --> 02:31:03,600
Speaker 1: I think it was about the Russian Orthodox Church's history

2702
02:31:03,680 --> 02:31:04,719
with the KGPN es.

2703
02:31:05,000 --> 02:31:06,840
Speaker 3: Well, the rok War, which is I go to a

2704
02:31:06,920 --> 02:31:09,520
Russian Wrthdox church outside Russia. For those that don't know,

2705
02:31:10,159 --> 02:31:13,639
ro Corps exists because of the sovietization of the church.

2706
02:31:14,520 --> 02:31:16,920
Ro Corps is the churches that are the people that

2707
02:31:17,079 --> 02:31:20,040
left Russia to flee the Soviets. And so what happened

2708
02:31:20,159 --> 02:31:25,600
is Western intelligence aided British Intelligence CIA. They helped to

2709
02:31:25,600 --> 02:31:27,799
bring those people over and so when they got out

2710
02:31:27,840 --> 02:31:30,399
of the Soviet Union, they set up the Russian Orthodox

2711
02:31:30,479 --> 02:31:34,719
Church outside of Russia. So it's not it's the opposite.

2712
02:31:34,799 --> 02:31:37,760
It's the people who were fleeing Soviets. That's the origin

2713
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:40,559
of the church. And if you listen to that interview

2714
02:31:40,600 --> 02:31:43,479
that I did, with Metropolitan Jonah, who is a really

2715
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:47,120
well read historian of the Russian Church. He talks about

2716
02:31:47,159 --> 02:31:50,520
how even in Russia during the Soviet period, KGB had

2717
02:31:50,639 --> 02:31:57,680
these tears of people that ranged from uncompromisable amongst the

2718
02:31:57,760 --> 02:32:01,760
bishops and priests all the way down to fully compromised.

2719
02:32:02,040 --> 02:32:04,760
So there is not an all or nothing thing. There's

2720
02:32:04,799 --> 02:32:07,280
people who were kind of even in the middle of

2721
02:32:07,959 --> 02:32:11,920
we might can compromise them, we might not. So it's

2722
02:32:11,959 --> 02:32:13,120
not a black or white issue.

2723
02:32:15,280 --> 02:32:19,559
Speaker 1: How much do you think I don't know, if I

2724
02:32:19,600 --> 02:32:21,079
don't know if you want me to ask you this question,

2725
02:32:21,120 --> 02:32:23,920
or if I'm supposed to ask you this question just

2726
02:32:23,959 --> 02:32:28,479
about the current patriarchate and how much do you think

2727
02:32:28,559 --> 02:32:34,040
the history of yeah, certain involvements in certain things continues

2728
02:32:34,120 --> 02:32:34,760
into today.

2729
02:32:35,159 --> 02:32:36,319
Speaker 2: If you don't want to ask.

2730
02:32:36,440 --> 02:32:38,440
Speaker 3: I know, I don't mind answering. I mean, I generally

2731
02:32:39,120 --> 02:32:41,639
am I have criticisms of the MP. I think that

2732
02:32:42,200 --> 02:32:46,040
Metropolitan Hilarian, who was the right hand man, I think

2733
02:32:46,120 --> 02:32:50,120
he there was a big scandal with him. I'm not

2734
02:32:50,159 --> 02:32:52,559
talking about Metropolitan Hilarian of the of rocarn't about the

2735
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:57,280
Metropolitan in Russia. There was a big scandal involving that

2736
02:32:57,479 --> 02:33:01,079
individual who many people were critics sizing for a long time,

2737
02:33:01,200 --> 02:33:03,879
saying that there was something shady there. I think that

2738
02:33:04,159 --> 02:33:08,440
Kuril is involved in a lot of politics by necessity

2739
02:33:08,479 --> 02:33:10,280
of the Russian Church has always been very close to

2740
02:33:10,440 --> 02:33:17,559
the state. They've always had a very tempestuous symphonia relationship

2741
02:33:17,600 --> 02:33:21,399
between church and state. There there's pros and cons to

2742
02:33:21,639 --> 02:33:24,959
a close relationship between church and state. I don't think

2743
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:28,280
that the Russian Church is any more Soviet, but I

2744
02:33:28,399 --> 02:33:31,159
do think that there is a lot of influence obviously

2745
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:34,120
that Putin has. It's not all bad, but there can

2746
02:33:34,239 --> 02:33:37,760
also be the attempt to make the church more of

2747
02:33:37,799 --> 02:33:41,559
a political entity than it should be. I'm not for

2748
02:33:42,440 --> 02:33:45,559
the West. In the Ukraine. We talked about Tiny mustache

2749
02:33:45,600 --> 02:33:50,000
Man earlier. It's NATO that supports the old Galen organization

2750
02:33:50,159 --> 02:33:54,000
networks throughout Ukraine. Who are all the tiny mustache Men supporters.

2751
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:58,120
So the canonical Russian Orthodox Church I do believe is

2752
02:33:58,639 --> 02:34:02,280
the right one. It is been persecuted. They have even

2753
02:34:02,360 --> 02:34:06,440
criticized the MP as well, so there's no easy answers.

2754
02:34:06,479 --> 02:34:08,959
It's a very it's a very hairy situation.

2755
02:34:09,680 --> 02:34:15,920
Speaker 1: Hm Uh Pelagonian Pelagonian Lion says, has David ever checked

2756
02:34:15,959 --> 02:34:18,120
out an Orthodox Church service? Would love to see him

2757
02:34:18,120 --> 02:34:22,879
become Orthodox. David is going to become Orthodox by force soon.

2758
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:29,760
Uh now, I've also invited data.

2759
02:34:29,879 --> 02:34:33,040
Speaker 3: That's your old Ottoman background, right, your your Turkish right,

2760
02:34:33,120 --> 02:34:36,719
So you're going to be the Orthodox Sultan Caliphate. Yeah,

2761
02:34:36,879 --> 02:34:39,280
that will convert forcibly everyone Orthodox.

2762
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is I promised before basically that once

2763
02:34:42,239 --> 02:34:46,680
I'm done with my Catechism and I get baptized, I

2764
02:34:46,760 --> 02:34:50,399
will say I will retake Constantinople and dedicated to the

2765
02:34:50,479 --> 02:34:53,000
Orthodox Church. And also, you know, do whatever comes with it.

2766
02:34:53,520 --> 02:34:57,719
Speaker 2: He thinks they're going to make them the like they're

2767
02:34:57,719 --> 02:34:59,120
going to give him the patriarchy there.

2768
02:34:59,280 --> 02:35:04,479
Speaker 3: He thinks, yeah, okay, so you're angling for this concept.

2769
02:35:04,959 --> 02:35:08,520
Speaker 1: All right, I'm not intending to give it to Greece.

2770
02:35:08,559 --> 02:35:12,559
I'm going to take it for myself. So the mythical

2771
02:35:12,559 --> 02:35:16,239
elliptical ap and j I'm a christened Catholic and getting

2772
02:35:16,280 --> 02:35:18,840
back into the church after being raced Protestant. I'm curious

2773
02:35:18,840 --> 02:35:21,079
what drove both of you away from Catholicism and into

2774
02:35:21,200 --> 02:35:22,479
Orthodox He thank you both.

2775
02:35:27,399 --> 02:35:31,319
Speaker 3: Jay, He put you first. It's your show. So how

2776
02:35:31,360 --> 02:35:34,200
come you didn't go into in the realm of Roman Catholicism.

2777
02:35:34,799 --> 02:35:38,559
Speaker 1: I mean, the funny thing is, when I first went

2778
02:35:38,559 --> 02:35:40,479
to the Orthodox Church, I was still doing a I

2779
02:35:40,600 --> 02:35:44,639
was praying the Rosary. And when I when I asked

2780
02:35:44,879 --> 02:35:48,479
my priest about entering the church and becoming a catechuym,

2781
02:35:48,479 --> 02:35:50,280
and I was still doing the Rosary, And I asked

2782
02:35:50,360 --> 02:35:52,040
him if that's okay, and he said, there's nothing wrong

2783
02:35:52,079 --> 02:35:54,639
with it, except for a few caveats here and there

2784
02:35:55,479 --> 02:35:59,000
about you know, imagining and things like that.

2785
02:36:00,200 --> 02:36:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2786
02:36:00,680 --> 02:36:04,440
Speaker 1: But so I I have lots of respect and have

2787
02:36:04,639 --> 02:36:07,479
had lots of interest in the Catholic Church, and still

2788
02:36:07,559 --> 02:36:09,559
kind of have this romantic idea of the of the

2789
02:36:09,639 --> 02:36:15,520
Catholic Church and kind of have this this this would

2790
02:36:15,639 --> 02:36:21,159
love to at some point see a proper, proper traditional

2791
02:36:21,479 --> 02:36:26,639
way of union. That said, I just have I think

2792
02:36:26,680 --> 02:36:28,920
I expressed this to you in in messages before, but

2793
02:36:29,000 --> 02:36:31,440
I kind of have some issues with the with the

2794
02:36:31,520 --> 02:36:34,879
authority of the pope and certain things that popes over

2795
02:36:34,920 --> 02:36:38,639
the last few decades have said that I find a

2796
02:36:38,680 --> 02:36:42,239
little bit problematic. And I also think that looking at

2797
02:36:42,280 --> 02:36:46,600
the the the for example, the the the change of

2798
02:36:46,680 --> 02:36:51,920
the of the creed by the Church in Rome, and

2799
02:36:51,959 --> 02:36:55,479
then the assertion of the pope as supreme authority over

2800
02:36:55,959 --> 02:37:01,440
the entire church, and things like these. I think I'm

2801
02:37:01,479 --> 02:37:04,639
only speaking from a very very very lowly positioned but

2802
02:37:04,879 --> 02:37:07,799
from from my from what I see there, it seems

2803
02:37:07,840 --> 02:37:10,879
to me that the that the that the Orthodox position

2804
02:37:11,239 --> 02:37:13,799
on both of those things, for example, is the more

2805
02:37:14,040 --> 02:37:18,600
valid position, and that, in my humble opinion, it would

2806
02:37:18,600 --> 02:37:23,120
have been more suitable for the West to eventually go

2807
02:37:23,360 --> 02:37:27,239
with what the the other seats decided and not to

2808
02:37:27,319 --> 02:37:30,520
make decisions on its own. So that's kind of what

2809
02:37:31,120 --> 02:37:32,600
drives me toward Orthodoxy.

2810
02:37:32,600 --> 02:37:35,879
Speaker 3: I would say, I got well, I'll go ahead and

2811
02:37:35,959 --> 02:37:45,079
admit that I'm here's my proof. I'm still secretly I'm

2812
02:37:45,120 --> 02:37:48,920
not a Jesuit agent. I'm a Dominican Thomas agent. Because

2813
02:37:48,920 --> 02:37:51,319
I still have an Aquinas icon.

2814
02:37:51,319 --> 02:37:53,840
Speaker 1: Because is that one of those monastery icon things?

2815
02:37:54,120 --> 02:37:56,399
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know where I got the that

2816
02:37:56,520 --> 02:37:58,399
looks like one of those you know what it is

2817
02:37:58,799 --> 02:38:01,719
it actually is. Yeah, So I bought this when I

2818
02:38:01,719 --> 02:38:03,639
was a Roman Catholic, not even realizing that that's like

2819
02:38:03,760 --> 02:38:09,280
some crazy dude, he's not even Orthodox that makes these yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2820
02:38:09,360 --> 02:38:12,159
So just real simply, I mean I was Roman Catholic.

2821
02:38:12,319 --> 02:38:15,159
I converted out of Calvinism in two thousand and three

2822
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:19,120
to Roman Catholicism, and throughout most of my twenties and

2823
02:38:19,159 --> 02:38:23,799
the two thousands, I was a pretty devoted, hardcore traditional Catholic.

2824
02:38:24,360 --> 02:38:26,959
Got very into Thomas Aquinas I got old at Suma

2825
02:38:27,040 --> 02:38:30,559
and all that over there, and eventually as I got

2826
02:38:30,600 --> 02:38:34,399
into Catholic dogma, I had real issues with the pre

2827
02:38:34,559 --> 02:38:39,000
Vatican two post Vatican two teachings, some of what AP mentioned,

2828
02:38:39,159 --> 02:38:42,399
like lumin Gentum sixteen that was for Tate three, the

2829
02:38:42,479 --> 02:38:45,920
way it speaks of Islam and Christianity worshiping the same God.

2830
02:38:46,079 --> 02:38:49,280
I never found that to be acceptable. Even when I

2831
02:38:49,360 --> 02:38:51,079
was a Catholic, I really struggled to try to make

2832
02:38:51,120 --> 02:38:55,000
it all work. Had a period where I wasn't an atheist,

2833
02:38:55,319 --> 02:38:57,840
but I got tired of tradcatism and just kind of

2834
02:38:58,840 --> 02:39:04,120
I read a bunch of stuff, everything from cabalistic Judaic stuff.

2835
02:39:04,399 --> 02:39:08,360
I read neoplatonic stuff, I read perennialists, I read Sufi stuff.

2836
02:39:08,479 --> 02:39:10,520
I wasn't into Islam, but I was interested in like

2837
02:39:10,600 --> 02:39:14,799
mystical SOUPI theology and stuff. I never adopted those, but

2838
02:39:15,440 --> 02:39:18,239
I was just interested. And then I started reading my

2839
02:39:18,319 --> 02:39:23,440
Bible again around twenty thirteen fourteen, started reading Saint Maximus

2840
02:39:23,520 --> 02:39:28,479
the Confessor quite a bit, and his philosophical approach was

2841
02:39:28,559 --> 02:39:31,559
actually what I was really finding more and more convincing

2842
02:39:32,399 --> 02:39:34,440
at the same time as getting back into reading the

2843
02:39:34,479 --> 02:39:38,920
Old Testament many times through because I found when I

2844
02:39:39,000 --> 02:39:40,920
was a Calvinist, I was a Reconstructionist, so I liked

2845
02:39:40,920 --> 02:39:44,600
the Old Testament a lot anyway, And eventually I just

2846
02:39:44,719 --> 02:39:47,280
found that if it wasn't going to be Rome, I

2847
02:39:47,360 --> 02:39:50,399
wasn't going to be prossling anymore. A lot of the

2848
02:39:50,680 --> 02:39:52,959
Tomistic baggage that I had I had to kind of

2849
02:39:53,040 --> 02:39:56,000
shed that, and then I eventually just went with Orthodoxy

2850
02:39:56,040 --> 02:39:57,639
in twenty fifteen sixteen.

2851
02:39:58,520 --> 02:39:58,799
Speaker 1: Nice.

2852
02:39:59,360 --> 02:40:03,040
Speaker 2: Nice, Here, here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing ap sa Hey,

2853
02:40:03,120 --> 02:40:07,959
I was a Muslim, then I was an atheist, then

2854
02:40:08,000 --> 02:40:16,120
an agnostic, then cat human, becoming an becoming Orthodox, and

2855
02:40:16,280 --> 02:40:20,000
then with Jay I hear I was Calvinist, then Catholic,

2856
02:40:20,639 --> 02:40:25,399
then interested in some weird stuff, then Orthodox. What I'm

2857
02:40:25,440 --> 02:40:27,680
hearing is, you guys have a pretty pretty big track

2858
02:40:27,760 --> 02:40:28,760
record of being wrong.

2859
02:40:31,559 --> 02:40:33,680
Speaker 3: No, I was right every time. I just had to

2860
02:40:33,760 --> 02:40:36,760
make myself more right. Good point, I was right, be

2861
02:40:36,840 --> 02:40:37,440
getting more right?

2862
02:40:37,799 --> 02:40:42,280
Speaker 1: Good point, very good point. See, Uh, contemporary companions got

2863
02:40:42,319 --> 02:40:46,040
to see you through United by one thing being late. Yeah,

2864
02:40:46,040 --> 02:40:49,079
I had. I had to reschedule it by like thirty

2865
02:40:49,120 --> 02:40:53,079
minutes because I realized that I have to be somewhere.

2866
02:40:53,600 --> 02:40:56,920
So yeah, where the has told me I was honorary

2867
02:40:57,000 --> 02:40:58,479
Black and I could be late.

2868
02:41:01,639 --> 02:41:03,920
Speaker 3: That's what I know. You guys covered it. But they

2869
02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:05,559
told me I was honorary Black and I have the

2870
02:41:05,639 --> 02:41:06,559
ability to be late.

2871
02:41:06,719 --> 02:41:09,840
Speaker 2: So that they don't talk like that though they talk

2872
02:41:09,920 --> 02:41:14,639
like hillbillies. Y'all know why we're here, right, They talk

2873
02:41:14,719 --> 02:41:17,079
like my cousins from like Preston County and stuff and anyway,

2874
02:41:18,000 --> 02:41:20,239
except when they and then they switch it and go yeah.

2875
02:41:24,040 --> 02:41:26,680
Speaker 1: Test, But do you think Europe largely Islamic migration crisis?

2876
02:41:27,159 --> 02:41:29,520
Islamization is by design and possibly duty to collaboration of

2877
02:41:29,559 --> 02:41:38,120
East and Western powers or just circumstance and ignorance. You

2878
02:41:38,239 --> 02:41:42,040
believe what design? So I think that, uh, there is

2879
02:41:42,079 --> 02:41:44,000
an aspect of designing it. But I also think that

2880
02:41:44,079 --> 02:41:48,639
there is that a certain other aspect which is a

2881
02:41:48,760 --> 02:41:52,559
great naivety and stupidity by the average population has a

2882
02:41:52,600 --> 02:41:53,280
lot to do with it.

2883
02:41:54,120 --> 02:41:57,639
Speaker 3: So I believe that's happening too. But there's a good

2884
02:41:57,639 --> 02:42:00,280
campaign if you do reach Tragian hope and Anglo Americans. Elis.

2885
02:42:00,479 --> 02:42:03,120
There's a good book that came out by Romanian guy

2886
02:42:03,840 --> 02:42:06,920
who's a British Romanian guy. It's called Milner Fabian Conspiracy,

2887
02:42:07,920 --> 02:42:11,280
and he argues pretty forcefully through here that it was

2888
02:42:11,559 --> 02:42:15,399
by design, particularly by the Fabian socialist deletes in the UK.

2889
02:42:16,159 --> 02:42:19,920
Kure Starmer, very famous open Fabian socialists, which is why

2890
02:42:20,239 --> 02:42:21,399
he's so pro Islam.

2891
02:42:22,520 --> 02:42:25,479
Speaker 1: The thing is, there are also pretty big Christian organizations

2892
02:42:25,520 --> 02:42:28,799
involved in the whole uh, and the whole move moves

2893
02:42:28,879 --> 02:42:34,479
off immigrant populations through the West, notably certain Catholic.

2894
02:42:34,319 --> 02:42:36,000
Speaker 3: Roman Catholic institutions. Absolutely.

2895
02:42:36,319 --> 02:42:38,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So look at what you have here. Uh,

2896
02:42:39,319 --> 02:42:41,440
do you think it's this or that?

2897
02:42:42,399 --> 02:42:42,879
Speaker 1: It's both?

2898
02:42:43,159 --> 02:42:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can you can have you can have both.

2899
02:42:47,159 --> 02:42:52,520
And I would attribute it mostly mostly to ignorance and stupidity.

2900
02:42:52,559 --> 02:42:55,200
And just if you if you program a population, if

2901
02:42:55,200 --> 02:43:00,680
you program a population, hey, you're bad, and you're bad

2902
02:43:00,840 --> 02:43:03,559
if you don't want this entire group coming in, And

2903
02:43:03,600 --> 02:43:05,600
you're bad if you object to anything they say and

2904
02:43:05,680 --> 02:43:08,399
so on. And if you just program people to believe

2905
02:43:08,440 --> 02:43:10,440
that all their lives and so on from the time

2906
02:43:10,479 --> 02:43:15,559
they're young. You just based on that by itself, you

2907
02:43:15,680 --> 02:43:17,879
get a lot of what you see. But I mean,

2908
02:43:18,000 --> 02:43:20,239
just think about the groups that align, right, You got

2909
02:43:20,479 --> 02:43:24,799
Communists and Islam and they'll all be united on You

2910
02:43:24,879 --> 02:43:27,920
got multiple groups that all want like the West to collapse,

2911
02:43:28,239 --> 02:43:31,719
all kind of working together and so on. So you

2912
02:43:31,959 --> 02:43:34,079
know that's you know that right. You know there are

2913
02:43:34,120 --> 02:43:38,600
tons of people, tons of people who want the West

2914
02:43:38,760 --> 02:43:41,559
to be destroyed. The question is like how many of those?

2915
02:43:41,639 --> 02:43:44,559
How many? Like how many people in actual positions of

2916
02:43:44,680 --> 02:43:48,079
power are there that are on board with that whole project?

2917
02:43:51,239 --> 02:43:56,559
Speaker 1: Uh? We search for public Baptist housing in Ai Karma,

2918
02:43:56,920 --> 02:44:00,440
in Al Karma, Iraq. They went across the order to

2919
02:44:00,559 --> 02:44:04,399
war it for us to live in. They became IS's leadership.

2920
02:44:07,000 --> 02:44:09,719
Karamasaus does AP still agree with the replacement of the

2921
02:44:09,840 --> 02:44:16,639
Ukrainian Canonical Church by the OCU. So here's the thing.

2922
02:44:17,959 --> 02:44:20,520
This was one of the main issues where I think

2923
02:44:20,600 --> 02:44:23,920
I got most of the most of the maybe justified

2924
02:44:24,680 --> 02:44:29,040
angry reactions from Orthodox circles on social media, and one

2925
02:44:29,079 --> 02:44:32,000
of the issues for which I actually retracted some of

2926
02:44:32,079 --> 02:44:34,920
the stuff that I said, and I think I was

2927
02:44:35,000 --> 02:44:37,520
wrong because at some point, for example, I argued that

2928
02:44:41,200 --> 02:44:44,840
oppressive actions by the Ukrainian government against the Orthodox Church

2929
02:44:45,120 --> 02:44:47,280
did not happen. This is a statement that I made,

2930
02:44:47,799 --> 02:44:50,360
and that was a wrong statement, because I think it's

2931
02:44:50,440 --> 02:44:53,799
it's clear that there have been oppressive interventions by the

2932
02:44:53,879 --> 02:44:57,799
Ukrainian government against the Orthodox Church. So I can I

2933
02:44:57,879 --> 02:45:00,319
can correct and admit that I was completely wrong there.

2934
02:45:00,719 --> 02:45:03,879
And this is also something that that Father Lily called

2935
02:45:03,920 --> 02:45:08,399
me out on. Actually I didn't respond to him, although

2936
02:45:08,399 --> 02:45:10,040
I asked him to clarify that, and then I went

2937
02:45:10,120 --> 02:45:12,600
with his UH with his response and looked further into

2938
02:45:12,639 --> 02:45:14,120
it and realized that I'm kind of wrong about that.

2939
02:45:16,479 --> 02:45:21,000
I have to say. So, I don't want to get

2940
02:45:21,079 --> 02:45:23,840
involved in church politics, but I see that there is

2941
02:45:23,920 --> 02:45:29,959
a in my in my opinion, a somewhat justified intervention

2942
02:45:30,399 --> 02:45:35,760
by the by Constantinople, by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, to

2943
02:45:35,840 --> 02:45:41,639
interfere in Ukraine and to give autonomy to a different

2944
02:45:42,479 --> 02:45:48,360
body within Ukraine, UH, to kind of sever the Russia's

2945
02:45:48,440 --> 02:45:52,639
control over Ukraine. But this is all politics and I

2946
02:45:52,840 --> 02:45:57,120
would say I would at this point purely and strictly

2947
02:45:57,239 --> 02:46:02,719
go with whatever Uh the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople decreased

2948
02:46:02,760 --> 02:46:06,559
to be the right thing to do. I'm just obedient.

2949
02:46:06,639 --> 02:46:10,000
At this point, I don't have any further political or

2950
02:46:10,079 --> 02:46:10,680
opinions on this.

2951
02:46:11,399 --> 02:46:13,239
Speaker 3: I would say that that's probably so that we do

2952
02:46:13,360 --> 02:46:15,959
disagree on in our position. There's a book on this

2953
02:46:16,079 --> 02:46:19,760
called the Ecclesial Crisis on Ukraine, and it's written by

2954
02:46:19,799 --> 02:46:25,040
a metropolitan from our perspective, criticizing the EP and that.

2955
02:46:25,319 --> 02:46:27,479
So that's that's all I'll say that.

2956
02:46:27,959 --> 02:46:31,879
Speaker 1: But again, for some reason, I thought it would be uh,

2957
02:46:32,319 --> 02:46:34,319
it's okay for me to get involved in that kind

2958
02:46:34,319 --> 02:46:36,440
of stuff early on. At this point, I don't think

2959
02:46:36,479 --> 02:46:38,159
that I am in any position to comment on that

2960
02:46:38,280 --> 02:46:42,559
or even have discussions about that. So, yeah, Jordan says,

2961
02:46:42,799 --> 02:46:44,680
do you still hold that we ought to support Israel?

2962
02:46:44,799 --> 02:46:47,840
Or was it also just reactionary? I never really held

2963
02:46:47,879 --> 02:46:50,479
that we ought to support Israel. This is actually a

2964
02:46:50,520 --> 02:46:51,399
distinction that I kind of.

2965
02:46:51,520 --> 02:46:53,639
Speaker 2: Tried to make. But then, yeah, there is a distinction

2966
02:46:53,760 --> 02:46:56,239
between should and art. I think the topic was should right,

2967
02:46:56,319 --> 02:46:59,040
which should you can interpret as art, but you can

2968
02:46:59,079 --> 02:47:01,520
also like should I do this or should?

2969
02:47:01,520 --> 02:47:05,120
Speaker 1: I think my understanding so should can be considered equal

2970
02:47:05,319 --> 02:47:08,879
in such discussions too ought to unless you clarify what

2971
02:47:08,959 --> 02:47:11,040
you mean by should and that you don't mean ought

2972
02:47:11,079 --> 02:47:14,120
to when you say should. And my original plan was

2973
02:47:14,159 --> 02:47:16,639
to actually clarify that, and I think I did, but

2974
02:47:16,799 --> 02:47:19,559
I probably kind of failed to deliver that because later

2975
02:47:19,680 --> 02:47:22,920
on it kept on being about ought to, which I

2976
02:47:23,000 --> 02:47:26,559
never really asserted. But I think I kind of slipped

2977
02:47:26,639 --> 02:47:29,840
up there, you know, in clarifying that I don't think

2978
02:47:29,879 --> 02:47:32,840
Christians are under an obligation to support Israel. I think

2979
02:47:32,840 --> 02:47:35,319
it's only better for Christians to support Israel.

2980
02:47:35,479 --> 02:47:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are there are two kind of ambiguous

2981
02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:40,440
words there which I think we're a little bit confusion.

2982
02:47:40,479 --> 02:47:43,399
So one is should are you interpreting that as ought

2983
02:47:43,559 --> 02:47:45,239
or just like, hey, this is this is a good

2984
02:47:45,280 --> 02:47:47,360
idea or this is a good thing to do. Uh?

2985
02:47:47,479 --> 02:47:49,319
And then support What does that mean? Because a lot

2986
02:47:49,360 --> 02:47:53,280
of people are like saying, oh, this means support it militarily,

2987
02:47:53,799 --> 02:47:56,639
or this means you have to send money or something

2988
02:47:56,680 --> 02:47:58,760
like this. But you can if you support Zion. If

2989
02:47:58,760 --> 02:48:00,920
you say I agree with zionisn't they your sporting Zionism.

2990
02:48:01,000 --> 02:48:04,079
So it's like, uh, yeah, I don't know. Would have

2991
02:48:04,120 --> 02:48:07,719
been clarification what you mean you could have You probably

2992
02:48:07,760 --> 02:48:13,479
could have worded the the topic in in terms that

2993
02:48:13,559 --> 02:48:17,600
would be less easy to go, less likely to cause confusion.

2994
02:48:18,680 --> 02:48:21,600
Speaker 5: Well, it comes down to the meaning of the hierarchical

2995
02:48:21,799 --> 02:48:25,760
archetype of uh should and ought to. And I think

2996
02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:28,680
you have to make a distinction between ought to enshould.

2997
02:48:29,159 --> 02:48:35,600
It's bloody difficult. But yeah, so I don't think that

2998
02:48:35,719 --> 02:48:38,639
Christians are under an obligation to or that they are

2999
02:48:38,760 --> 02:48:42,040
that they ought to in the strictest sense support Israel.

3000
02:48:42,360 --> 02:48:45,360
I think it would be I still think it would

3001
02:48:45,360 --> 02:48:49,920
be the right thing to do. So yeah, and Jay

3002
02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:51,159
thinks this is very wrong.

3003
02:48:52,239 --> 02:48:54,600
Speaker 3: Well, I thought the way the debate was framed in

3004
02:48:54,680 --> 02:48:58,120
the sense of moral art usually you know, in ethics,

3005
02:48:58,280 --> 02:49:00,840
in terms of philosophy, that has some sort of force

3006
02:49:00,920 --> 02:49:03,879
behind it, Like the way to the debate becomes you

3007
02:49:04,000 --> 02:49:08,680
need to demonstrate the justification for the aught. So in

3008
02:49:08,799 --> 02:49:12,159
that regard, no, I don't think that that was demonstrated

3009
02:49:13,200 --> 02:49:19,040
in the debate. So from an epistemic standpoint, but in

3010
02:49:19,200 --> 02:49:23,000
terms of the practical argument that you're making that okay,

3011
02:49:23,159 --> 02:49:26,079
So is it a worse off situation if there's not

3012
02:49:26,239 --> 02:49:31,840
the existing government and power. That's another issue, Separate from

3013
02:49:32,120 --> 02:49:36,479
when you say, do you support the existence of Jews

3014
02:49:36,680 --> 02:49:39,920
or Jews to have a homeland or Jews to be

3015
02:49:40,079 --> 02:49:43,399
self determining as a people. I think that's yes. I

3016
02:49:43,479 --> 02:49:46,159
don't know that. Again, I would equate that with Zionism

3017
02:49:46,239 --> 02:49:50,559
per se, just because Zionism is a historical movement that

3018
02:49:50,719 --> 02:49:55,239
is politically and you know, it's politically atheistic in its origins.

3019
02:49:55,559 --> 02:49:59,120
Granted maybe nowadays it means something different. So with all

3020
02:49:59,159 --> 02:50:00,639
those nuances is what I would say.

3021
02:50:01,000 --> 02:50:03,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so actually, yeah, there were three. There were

3022
02:50:03,760 --> 02:50:07,200
three ambiguous terms in the debate topic. So should are

3023
02:50:07,239 --> 02:50:10,399
you interpreted that as like a moral moral? You interpret

3024
02:50:10,479 --> 02:50:13,200
that in like language of moral obligation? Then support what

3025
02:50:13,280 --> 02:50:15,440
do you mean by support, like hey, I support your meaning,

3026
02:50:15,920 --> 02:50:17,840
I support your idea, or I'm going to send you

3027
02:50:17,920 --> 02:50:21,799
support or something like that. And then Zionism itself, that's

3028
02:50:21,840 --> 02:50:23,600
the most ambiguous because there are a bunch of different

3029
02:50:23,639 --> 02:50:24,120
versions of it.

3030
02:50:24,280 --> 02:50:29,639
Speaker 1: So I think I clarified that one. But yeah, right, Rachel,

3031
02:50:30,120 --> 02:50:32,600
good to see you here. But ap and ate with

3032
02:50:32,639 --> 02:50:34,680
Andrew that's exactly what you argued. You said that Christians

3033
02:50:34,680 --> 02:50:37,520
specifically had an obligation to support Israel, So I don't

3034
02:50:37,799 --> 02:50:39,840
I don't believe. I'm pretty sure that I didn't say

3035
02:50:39,879 --> 02:50:42,079
that they have an obligation because I would be very

3036
02:50:42,239 --> 02:50:44,120
clear in making better.

3037
02:50:44,040 --> 02:50:47,040
Speaker 2: Will be right. Otherwise this will be clipped tomorrow. That's

3038
02:50:47,040 --> 02:50:47,760
what you flip it.

3039
02:50:49,559 --> 02:50:55,280
Speaker 1: Clip it lying. But I wouldn't say that that. I

3040
02:50:55,319 --> 02:50:58,319
wouldn't have said that that Christians have such an obligation

3041
02:50:58,360 --> 02:51:00,920
because I was actually preparing various specifically to make the

3042
02:51:01,000 --> 02:51:04,120
distinction between between the should without an ought to. But

3043
02:51:05,360 --> 02:51:08,360
here that's the thing, and that is my shortcoming. I

3044
02:51:08,440 --> 02:51:13,319
admit that that I, despite preparing for that, failed to

3045
02:51:13,399 --> 02:51:16,600
actually establish that first, which is where the misunderstanding did

3046
02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:20,159
come into into existence. So that is that is one

3047
02:51:20,479 --> 02:51:23,719
issue that I even wanted to clarify later on as

3048
02:51:23,719 --> 02:51:25,559
we weren't in the heated debate, but then it was

3049
02:51:25,680 --> 02:51:28,200
kind of too late to ever get back to it.

3050
02:51:28,319 --> 02:51:32,920
So I didn't argue that. My position would still be

3051
02:51:33,280 --> 02:51:36,879
that it's in the best interest of Christians and that's

3052
02:51:37,040 --> 02:51:39,760
that's that's what they should be doing. I didn't say

3053
02:51:39,760 --> 02:51:42,920
obligation though, if I did say obligation. Show it to

3054
02:51:43,000 --> 02:51:50,159
me and I will publicly flagellate or something. Jordan apduced

3055
02:51:50,319 --> 02:51:55,440
no searching deeper Gentile time closing, Jesus Is said twenty four.

3056
02:51:55,479 --> 02:51:57,200
They will fall by the sword and will be taken

3057
02:51:57,239 --> 02:51:59,520
as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled

3058
02:51:59,520 --> 02:52:01,520
on by the tiles until the times of the Gentile

3059
02:52:01,639 --> 02:52:04,360
is awful filled LK twenty one Independence.

3060
02:52:07,719 --> 02:52:11,559
Speaker 3: I believe that's talking about what happened primarily in seventy

3061
02:52:11,600 --> 02:52:14,200
a d. So I'm a partial preadtist. A lot of

3062
02:52:14,280 --> 02:52:18,200
church fathers, especially Eastern Church fathers, were partial preadists. Chris

3063
02:52:18,239 --> 02:52:22,040
system Cyril of Alexandria. There's some really good books on

3064
02:52:22,120 --> 02:52:23,959
this if you don't, if you know, you could reach

3065
02:52:24,079 --> 02:52:27,479
Christism on Matthew twenty four, but it's a good Protestant

3066
02:52:27,559 --> 02:52:30,520
text on this by Ken Gentry Call Before Jerusalem Fell,

3067
02:52:30,639 --> 02:52:34,520
and there's a classic commentary on the book Revelation he

3068
02:52:34,639 --> 02:52:37,239
was about to be Orthodox right before he died by

3069
02:52:37,319 --> 02:52:41,120
David Chilton. So that's my view on Matthew twenty four

3070
02:52:41,159 --> 02:52:41,879
and Luke twenty one.

3071
02:52:42,639 --> 02:52:44,879
Speaker 1: Oh look, wait a minute, I think I just I

3072
02:52:44,959 --> 02:52:47,879
wanted to look this up before I mess it up here,

3073
02:52:48,920 --> 02:52:56,639
I think if I'm let me see here has a

3074
02:52:56,760 --> 02:53:00,319
problem with in my opening statement, I never ever argue

3075
02:53:00,360 --> 02:53:04,040
that it is an obligation for Christians to support Israel.

3076
02:53:04,479 --> 02:53:07,760
I did say Christians should I would. I did say

3077
02:53:07,799 --> 02:53:09,840
it would be the right thing. I did say it

3078
02:53:09,879 --> 02:53:13,319
would be morally right. I never ever made it look

3079
02:53:13,479 --> 02:53:16,719
like it is an obligation for Christians or it is

3080
02:53:16,799 --> 02:53:21,200
within their religion that they that they must support the

3081
02:53:21,280 --> 02:53:25,319
state of Israel. I argued that with so, yeah, I

3082
02:53:25,399 --> 02:53:28,719
think I might die it very Clearel.

3083
02:53:27,719 --> 02:53:31,840
Speaker 2: Wilson, I was. I wasn't even sure, but Rachel Rachel

3084
02:53:31,920 --> 02:53:38,799
Wilson has been exposed for misrepresenting, by the way, by

3085
02:53:38,840 --> 02:53:42,360
the yeah, by the way, it would actually be easy

3086
02:53:42,479 --> 02:53:45,000
to if you say this is uh, it's morally right

3087
02:53:45,120 --> 02:53:47,479
to do this. That is even that's that's still different

3088
02:53:47,520 --> 02:53:49,479
as you just use it right there. That's different from

3089
02:53:49,559 --> 02:53:51,760
moral obligation. So you were saying, because lot lots of

3090
02:53:51,760 --> 02:53:53,680
people would be confused on that fact. If I say,

3091
02:53:54,760 --> 02:53:59,760
should I give that that homeless person this amount of money,

3092
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:02,040
I could say that morally right, I'm doing the right thing.

3093
02:54:02,520 --> 02:54:04,639
I it's different. It's different to say I have a

3094
02:54:04,760 --> 02:54:08,639
moral obligation to do that particular thing or something like that.

3095
02:54:08,719 --> 02:54:13,120
So anyway, Yeah, it's a I guess it's just too

3096
02:54:13,719 --> 02:54:16,159
for people to understand that like term, we're used terms

3097
02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:18,639
in different ways, and so it is good to seriously

3098
02:54:18,719 --> 02:54:20,440
clar as much as possible.

3099
02:54:22,280 --> 02:54:27,799
Speaker 1: In the opening, I think you're dying. Well, we were dying.

3100
02:54:27,799 --> 02:54:31,399
It were just cutting oft. Yeah, but yeah, I still

3101
02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:33,440
I still do think to be very fair. As I

3102
02:54:33,520 --> 02:54:35,639
just said that, it could have been more filmly and

3103
02:54:35,799 --> 02:54:41,479
better established the distinction there. So yeah, yep, but hey,

3104
02:54:41,559 --> 02:54:46,639
good to see Rachel uh Ac. If the West police

3105
02:54:46,719 --> 02:54:49,040
is Islam then opens a new can of worms. How

3106
02:54:49,079 --> 02:54:52,200
can we sustain this with over one hundred dollars destruction

3107
02:54:52,360 --> 02:54:57,879
and thirty plus trillion lion in debt. In many cases

3108
02:54:57,920 --> 02:55:00,239
it's already too late, But in some cases there is

3109
02:55:00,280 --> 02:55:02,680
a thing called remigration, which is a big term right

3110
02:55:02,719 --> 02:55:04,159
now going around in Europe.

3111
02:55:04,479 --> 02:55:07,920
Speaker 2: So, and what do you mean by polices Islam? You

3112
02:55:08,040 --> 02:55:11,079
mean like in the Western nations? You mean like in

3113
02:55:11,200 --> 02:55:13,399
Western nations, or you mean like around the world, because

3114
02:55:13,399 --> 02:55:14,840
you could be saying, hey, we don't have the money

3115
02:55:14,840 --> 02:55:16,799
to be policing Islam around the world. Or you could say, hey,

3116
02:55:16,840 --> 02:55:20,200
why are we doing this in our countries when you

3117
02:55:20,360 --> 02:55:21,680
bring in all these guys and then they want you

3118
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:22,840
hod and then you have to spend the rest of

3119
02:55:22,840 --> 02:55:23,879
their lives policing them.

3120
02:55:27,719 --> 02:55:30,680
Speaker 1: Uh. In if Orthodoxy can say we know where the

3121
02:55:30,799 --> 02:55:33,559
church is but not where it isn't we can't say.

3122
02:55:34,319 --> 02:55:37,079
We can't say is why can't Islam say we know

3123
02:55:37,200 --> 02:55:39,319
the in Ngel is true but don't know where it is.

3124
02:55:41,520 --> 02:55:46,360
That's interesting, David, what's your response to this?

3125
02:55:47,680 --> 02:55:48,120
Speaker 2: That's true?

3126
02:55:48,200 --> 02:55:51,040
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Basios says, will there be a discussion

3127
02:55:51,040 --> 02:55:52,559
on the Russian and Ukraine issue? It seems to me

3128
02:55:52,600 --> 02:55:55,000
that it'd be denies the persecution of a Urine Orthodox Church.

3129
02:55:55,239 --> 02:55:57,360
Speaker 2: Fact, stop doing that, Stop doing that, ap.

3130
02:55:57,840 --> 02:55:59,559
Speaker 1: Glad we just argued that. So I do think that

3131
02:55:59,600 --> 02:56:01,000
there is a that there is that there are very

3132
02:56:01,040 --> 02:56:03,799
problematic things that happened with the Orthodox, with the Ukrainian

3133
02:56:03,920 --> 02:56:06,639
Orthodox Church. But there's also a thing, right if I'm

3134
02:56:06,680 --> 02:56:12,239
not wrong, Jay, the branch of the so, the Ukrainian

3135
02:56:12,360 --> 02:56:17,079
Orthodox Church MP as it was known, I think, officially

3136
02:56:17,360 --> 02:56:21,639
severed ties with Russia right after. So they're officially kind

3137
02:56:21,680 --> 02:56:25,239
of cut off right now. While Russia still considers them

3138
02:56:25,319 --> 02:56:27,159
part but they are kind of well.

3139
02:56:27,239 --> 02:56:31,559
Speaker 3: I know that Mats Bolton and made statements critical of

3140
02:56:31,559 --> 02:56:33,680
the MP. I'm not sure about being cut off, but

3141
02:56:34,079 --> 02:56:36,559
I mean, as far as I know, they're still in communion,

3142
02:56:36,760 --> 02:56:42,559
and it's still from most of the Orthodox world except

3143
02:56:42,600 --> 02:56:47,159
for perhaps the EP and perhaps the Patriarch of Alexandria,

3144
02:56:47,200 --> 02:56:53,239
who seems to have flipped. The EP previously recognized a

3145
02:56:53,319 --> 02:56:56,959
new free as the canonical Church, so I think that's

3146
02:56:56,959 --> 02:57:01,040
probably one of the most damning issues with that. Also,

3147
02:57:01,440 --> 02:57:08,239
Dumenko was previously not accepted as a legitimate cleric because

3148
02:57:08,319 --> 02:57:12,040
of problems with his past by the EP, and I

3149
02:57:12,120 --> 02:57:14,159
think that's the reason this gets Harry is is the

3150
02:57:14,239 --> 02:57:18,840
State Department that put a lot of pressure on Constantinople

3151
02:57:19,000 --> 02:57:22,639
to make this change. So it might not even be

3152
02:57:22,920 --> 02:57:27,600
valid if it's an external influence from the state on

3153
02:57:28,559 --> 02:57:32,760
the church, even if the EP's actions are quote valid

3154
02:57:33,840 --> 02:57:37,600
from his perspective of canon law. But anyway, that's a

3155
02:57:37,639 --> 02:57:40,120
different issue from I mean, you can go look up

3156
02:57:40,319 --> 02:57:45,600
like the Pompeo and the State Department champion the creation

3157
02:57:45,920 --> 02:57:48,200
of the Church of Ukraine, the National Church of Ukraine,

3158
02:57:48,239 --> 02:57:51,040
so it's it's literally a state department's CIA creation by

3159
02:57:51,079 --> 02:57:52,799
their own Twitter timeline.

3160
02:57:55,600 --> 02:58:00,680
Speaker 1: So I know that even one of the one of

3161
02:58:00,760 --> 02:58:05,920
the recent Orthodox UH teachers higher archs that I respect

3162
02:58:05,959 --> 02:58:10,639
a lot Metropolitan Calistas where had had disagreements with or

3163
02:58:11,040 --> 02:58:16,719
had openly criticized Constantinople for their for their their their

3164
02:58:16,879 --> 02:58:20,280
their interference in Ukraine and all that. I know that

3165
02:58:20,360 --> 02:58:25,239
this is a very very contentious topic. Anyway, don't want

3166
02:58:25,239 --> 02:58:27,760
to talk about any for UH Patius. Will there be

3167
02:58:27,799 --> 02:58:30,799
a discussion, yes, j K Fuerte. Does any country have

3168
02:58:30,840 --> 02:58:32,920
a right to exist if it can solely defend itself?

3169
02:58:33,280 --> 02:58:33,440
Speaker 3: Uh?

3170
02:58:34,799 --> 02:58:38,079
Speaker 1: Really depends, But I think that Israel fully has the

3171
02:58:38,120 --> 02:58:40,319
ability to defend itself, So.

3172
02:58:40,879 --> 02:58:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I've seen this pop up that

3173
02:58:44,639 --> 02:58:48,200
any nation that can't defend itself can't be called a nation.

3174
02:58:48,440 --> 02:58:50,680
I saw that. I've seen that like dozens of times,

3175
02:58:50,840 --> 02:58:54,440
and that's just If you want to object on other grounds,

3176
02:58:54,479 --> 02:58:57,040
that's fine, But that particular claim that that's stupid. If

3177
02:58:57,079 --> 02:58:59,639
the United States wanted to take Mexico right now, Mexico

3178
02:58:59,680 --> 02:59:03,159
could stop US unless Mexico had helped. So what Mexico

3179
02:59:03,280 --> 02:59:05,399
is not a nation? That doesn't make any sense. So anyway,

3180
02:59:06,319 --> 02:59:08,520
when those kinds of when those kinds of arguments are used,

3181
02:59:08,520 --> 02:59:10,760
I don't know, I don't I don't trust your position.

3182
02:59:10,879 --> 02:59:13,000
If that's what, if that's that.

3183
02:59:13,079 --> 02:59:16,520
Speaker 3: Of Syke speaker, wouldn't be countries if France and Britain

3184
02:59:16,600 --> 02:59:19,399
hadn't divided them up and created them as countries. And

3185
02:59:19,479 --> 02:59:22,040
so that would mean that all countries basically failed to

3186
02:59:22,120 --> 02:59:22,639
be countries.

3187
02:59:22,840 --> 02:59:27,239
Speaker 1: They turned them into countries. Even with the thing very

3188
02:59:27,280 --> 02:59:30,040
interesting with Jordan. We talked about Jordan earlier and how

3189
02:59:30,200 --> 02:59:34,319
and how Israel had this vision of absorbing Jordan into

3190
02:59:34,399 --> 02:59:37,399
a Palestinian state or something like that. This is still

3191
02:59:38,200 --> 02:59:42,120
it's still a popular thing today, often pointed out by

3192
02:59:42,200 --> 02:59:45,360
Israelis jokingly that there already is a Palestinian state and

3193
02:59:45,399 --> 02:59:49,879
it's called Jordan. But they were actually behind the scenes

3194
02:59:50,879 --> 02:59:53,959
discussions between the Zionists movement and the and the and

3195
02:59:54,040 --> 02:59:57,719
the and the hushma, the of the the the Jordanian

3196
02:59:58,079 --> 03:00:04,559
family to somehow come to an arrangement and to basically

3197
03:00:04,840 --> 03:00:10,159
give them the right to govern the Palestinian Arab population

3198
03:00:11,040 --> 03:00:14,680
and to somehow find peace in that way, and Jordan

3199
03:00:14,799 --> 03:00:17,680
was fine with it. Jordan was kind of an interesting

3200
03:00:18,520 --> 03:00:20,799
two sides player during this entire country.

3201
03:00:20,920 --> 03:00:22,920
Speaker 3: Why do you think that didn't come about?

3202
03:00:25,760 --> 03:00:29,760
Speaker 1: There's so many reasons to it. But I mean Jordan

3203
03:00:29,840 --> 03:00:34,000
did after the initial war, after nineteen forty eight, Jordan

3204
03:00:34,120 --> 03:00:38,680
did directly occupy the West Bank and also annex it.

3205
03:00:38,760 --> 03:00:42,159
Actually they went as far as annexing it. So the

3206
03:00:42,280 --> 03:00:46,559
Arab League was outraged about this. They said, you can't

3207
03:00:46,600 --> 03:00:48,799
do this, this is not the plan. But they said, sorry,

3208
03:00:48,840 --> 03:00:50,559
we don't care, but this is what we're going to do.

3209
03:00:50,879 --> 03:00:52,559
So they did go ahead and try and try to

3210
03:00:52,680 --> 03:00:58,079
and annex the West Bank and give the Palestinian Arabs

3211
03:00:58,120 --> 03:01:01,280
in the West Bank citizenship and all that. Later on,

3212
03:01:01,440 --> 03:01:05,559
it didn't really come to fruition because Jordan couldn't figure

3213
03:01:05,639 --> 03:01:10,280
things out with Israel and flipped sides and started fighting.

3214
03:01:10,520 --> 03:01:16,719
So it all got a little bit bitter, very complicated. H. BROSSI,

3215
03:01:16,799 --> 03:01:19,680
as a chief diary, I appreciate the hospitalitality of our boy,

3216
03:01:19,719 --> 03:01:21,799
but I'd like a clarification of your reasoning for calling

3217
03:01:21,879 --> 03:01:23,360
him a skitzer or a retraction.

3218
03:01:25,440 --> 03:01:28,040
Speaker 3: Well, I told him at the beginning, I took my meds,

3219
03:01:28,079 --> 03:01:28,840
so today I'm not.

3220
03:01:31,159 --> 03:01:33,719
Speaker 1: I think I think what I actually said was that

3221
03:01:34,159 --> 03:01:37,799
that you were making skitso arguments or something like saying

3222
03:01:37,840 --> 03:01:40,920
schizophrenic things. I think those are my words. But yeah,

3223
03:01:41,360 --> 03:01:44,479
as I said, I said nasty things in that whole exchange,

3224
03:01:44,479 --> 03:01:45,319
and I'm sorry about that.

3225
03:01:45,799 --> 03:01:48,000
Speaker 3: It's okay. I don't I get called skits every day.

3226
03:01:49,799 --> 03:01:53,879
A little side note, The Kings of Jordan, by the way,

3227
03:01:53,959 --> 03:01:57,520
have for many years been also on the CIA payroll,

3228
03:01:57,639 --> 03:02:01,799
and I think that ended under Carter for whatever reason.

3229
03:02:01,920 --> 03:02:03,760
But they were basically see I would just give them

3230
03:02:03,799 --> 03:02:07,719
a million dollars a year and then that's declassified, by

3231
03:02:07,760 --> 03:02:10,680
the way. But just a little interesting side note.

3232
03:02:11,559 --> 03:02:14,680
Speaker 1: Nice, nice, Well, the King when he recently went to

3233
03:02:14,760 --> 03:02:17,239
meet Donald Trump was acting like a really really good boy.

3234
03:02:18,239 --> 03:02:21,559
It's pretty cool. Must be a little bit embarrassing. See,

3235
03:02:21,559 --> 03:02:24,799
it does Romans nine and eleven a god special plan

3236
03:02:24,920 --> 03:02:27,719
for Jews mean a special second covenant they cannot be

3237
03:02:27,799 --> 03:02:31,760
opposed in our politics. And yes, spreads of heresy so

3238
03:02:32,479 --> 03:02:35,399
very quickly before Jay comments on this, I don't think

3239
03:02:35,440 --> 03:02:39,639
that that it implies a second special government covenant. I

3240
03:02:39,760 --> 03:02:42,719
don't think that there is any understanding of any separate covenant,

3241
03:02:43,520 --> 03:02:48,319
but that there is a continued relationship that eventually leads

3242
03:02:48,360 --> 03:02:52,680
to reconciliation between God and the Jews. And but yeah,

3243
03:02:52,719 --> 03:02:53,159
what do you think.

3244
03:02:54,319 --> 03:02:56,399
Speaker 3: Well, I agree that any kind of notion of a

3245
03:02:57,120 --> 03:03:00,280
second covenant or separate covenant, dual covenant would be kind

3246
03:03:00,319 --> 03:03:04,120
of dispensationalism, and we would disagree with that. But I

3247
03:03:04,280 --> 03:03:06,600
agree with you that there does seem to be a

3248
03:03:06,639 --> 03:03:09,840
future conversion. I don't think that that reconciliation can happen

3249
03:03:09,920 --> 03:03:13,479
without it being some kind of belief. You know, Paul

3250
03:03:13,559 --> 03:03:17,760
says that grafted out because of unbelief, but through faith

3251
03:03:17,920 --> 03:03:20,120
can be grafted back in. And it mirrors what he

3252
03:03:20,159 --> 03:03:24,120
says ins Corinthians three about the veil eventually being removed,

3253
03:03:24,360 --> 03:03:28,200
and then the Jews sees Christ in the law in Moses,

3254
03:03:28,239 --> 03:03:32,200
basically inside Crintian's three. So that's right.

3255
03:03:33,040 --> 03:03:36,000
Speaker 1: And once again, the most fascinating aspect about all of

3256
03:03:36,079 --> 03:03:39,239
this to me, which makes it even kind of sweet,

3257
03:03:39,959 --> 03:03:43,120
if that's the word to me, is that is that

3258
03:03:44,760 --> 03:03:49,639
Paul calls it a mystery. So you know, we don't

3259
03:03:49,639 --> 03:03:51,879
really we don't really know how it comes about. It's

3260
03:03:52,000 --> 03:03:58,079
just that's what it is. Avery Hallwelt says, I'd also

3261
03:03:58,159 --> 03:04:00,520
like to publicly apologize to Die for calling him hypocrite

3262
03:04:00,520 --> 03:04:03,159
because I said he ran from a debate. My hand

3263
03:04:03,319 --> 03:04:06,000
is orthocatholic. By the way, shame shame on you.

3264
03:04:06,319 --> 03:04:11,000
Speaker 3: Orthocatholic ran from a debate from who I don't a

3265
03:04:11,040 --> 03:04:12,639
lot of times, a lot of times, you know, really

3266
03:04:12,680 --> 03:04:14,799
small accounts. Well, if you don't, kind of I'm not,

3267
03:04:15,319 --> 03:04:18,040
I don't know this person. But like, if you don't reply,

3268
03:04:18,319 --> 03:04:20,719
they'll say that you ran. It's like, I'm not, I

3269
03:04:20,799 --> 03:04:22,600
don't know what what did I run from?

3270
03:04:24,040 --> 03:04:25,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a similar thing. I see probably like

3271
03:04:26,760 --> 03:04:30,680
maybe between one and five percent of messages like on

3272
03:04:31,040 --> 03:04:33,200
Twitter and stuff. But yeah, if I ever do not

3273
03:04:34,280 --> 03:04:36,360
do not respond to something, I find that I'm running

3274
03:04:41,280 --> 03:04:41,600
no matter.

3275
03:04:41,719 --> 03:04:45,000
Speaker 1: Kis just got here ten twenty seven ets. So jay

3276
03:04:45,120 --> 03:04:46,559
is asignis? Can I get a recap?

3277
03:04:46,760 --> 03:04:52,479
Speaker 3: Yes, well again we have to as we've seen tonight.

3278
03:04:52,559 --> 03:04:54,840
I guess nuance is necessary.

3279
03:04:54,959 --> 03:04:58,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be kind of a bare minimum secular

3280
03:04:59,000 --> 03:05:05,319
concept of uh a right of a people to exist

3281
03:05:05,399 --> 03:05:08,159
and defend themselves. But I find that that is why

3282
03:05:08,159 --> 03:05:09,959
I'm called a Zionists, and therefore I'm taking that as

3283
03:05:10,040 --> 03:05:10,840
like one definition.

3284
03:05:11,680 --> 03:05:14,920
Speaker 1: So jokes aside, I would say that so Zionists in

3285
03:05:15,000 --> 03:05:16,959
the sense like I would I which for example, considered

3286
03:05:17,000 --> 03:05:19,040
David in a sense of Zionist because he's actively in

3287
03:05:19,079 --> 03:05:21,799
support of the of of of Israel in a in

3288
03:05:21,879 --> 03:05:26,200
a way, whereas with with Jay Dyer he acknowledges that

3289
03:05:26,760 --> 03:05:29,639
they have a right to exist. But that's that's as

3290
03:05:29,680 --> 03:05:31,559
far as it goes. So you don't have uh, you

3291
03:05:31,639 --> 03:05:33,520
don't have any active support or I.

3292
03:05:33,520 --> 03:05:38,360
Speaker 3: Think there's a real politic that Israel is there. There's

3293
03:05:38,440 --> 03:05:42,079
no point in pretending that we could remove the nation

3294
03:05:42,200 --> 03:05:46,440
state of Israel something like, it's just not reality. Perhaps

3295
03:05:46,520 --> 03:05:49,440
a person could make an argument that due to you know,

3296
03:05:50,239 --> 03:05:54,000
from my perspective of Orthodox the situation could be worse

3297
03:05:54,200 --> 03:05:57,719
if it wasn't the way it is. I don't know

3298
03:05:57,799 --> 03:06:00,879
that there's a necessity or a moral ought in terms

3299
03:06:00,920 --> 03:06:04,079
of tax payer money. I can't see the argument for that,

3300
03:06:05,920 --> 03:06:08,959
and even the the Coud party seems to publicly disagree

3301
03:06:08,959 --> 03:06:13,200
with that. So so so I disagree with a with

3302
03:06:13,319 --> 03:06:17,840
a religious support of Zionism as a position. I do

3303
03:06:18,000 --> 03:06:20,399
believe that Israel has a right to exist as a

3304
03:06:20,479 --> 03:06:23,639
people group, to have self defense, to have to be

3305
03:06:23,719 --> 03:06:27,879
a self determining people. There's no point in thinking that

3306
03:06:28,079 --> 03:06:32,680
the existing pragmatic, real politics going to change. Uh So

3307
03:06:32,959 --> 03:06:35,600
that's that's as far as I can I can.

3308
03:06:35,559 --> 03:06:40,399
Speaker 1: Say, I love the ar This is actually a This

3309
03:06:40,520 --> 03:06:45,280
is actually the logo of the Channel of Harmony, which

3310
03:06:45,399 --> 03:06:50,639
is an Orthodox Christian film channel. So that's what this

3311
03:06:50,760 --> 03:06:51,280
actually is.

3312
03:06:51,559 --> 03:06:53,920
Speaker 3: I'm just uh, I thought maybe it's like a bitcoin

3313
03:06:54,239 --> 03:06:54,920
QR code.

3314
03:06:56,079 --> 03:07:02,440
Speaker 1: No, you know, right, you probably know about them. I'm

3315
03:07:02,479 --> 03:07:05,079
not sure you should know about them. This channel here.

3316
03:07:07,079 --> 03:07:11,719
They do orthodox Christian production stuff. They do really really

3317
03:07:11,760 --> 03:07:14,040
good stuff. And I'm just shouting them out and wearing

3318
03:07:14,079 --> 03:07:17,239
their stuff for free right now because because I love them,

3319
03:07:17,319 --> 03:07:22,559
because because they recently made some really really good films.

3320
03:07:23,520 --> 03:07:26,360
I first they got my attention by making something about

3321
03:07:26,360 --> 03:07:31,040
Alexanders Morrell, which was very amazing, and then about Saint

3322
03:07:31,159 --> 03:07:33,200
Marie of Paris, and I followed it and became a

3323
03:07:33,280 --> 03:07:36,239
member and loved what they do and messaged with them

3324
03:07:36,239 --> 03:07:38,239
as well to thank them. They were very very nice.

3325
03:07:38,879 --> 03:07:40,920
So yeah, that's what that's what that's what I'm wearing.

3326
03:07:42,399 --> 03:07:46,760
That's what I'm shouting out here. Harmony, Go subscribe to Harmony. Harmony.

3327
03:07:48,319 --> 03:07:55,760
They didn't pay me to say this, Yeah. Rachel Rachel,

3328
03:07:55,879 --> 03:07:58,680
Rachel Rachel Andrew is very chill and super nice when

3329
03:07:58,680 --> 03:08:00,639
he's not debating. It was extremely kind into Ap when

3330
03:08:00,680 --> 03:08:02,440
we were at the debate in person, ask Ap, he

3331
03:08:02,479 --> 03:08:05,120
will tell you guys are nuts. Yeah, I would just

3332
03:08:05,200 --> 03:08:08,000
recommend not not not responding, not interacting with the with

3333
03:08:08,079 --> 03:08:10,879
the people here. But some people are some people in

3334
03:08:10,959 --> 03:08:16,239
the chat say stuff about about Andrew Wilson. I have

3335
03:08:16,399 --> 03:08:20,040
I said my part about Andrew Wilson publicly before as well.

3336
03:08:20,159 --> 03:08:24,159
I made a postpot about it after the debate. He

3337
03:08:24,239 --> 03:08:27,079
has been nothing but nice, nothing but kind and good

3338
03:08:27,159 --> 03:08:31,639
to me during the debate, immediately after the debate, long

3339
03:08:31,719 --> 03:08:33,520
after the debate, and so on.

3340
03:08:33,760 --> 03:08:35,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, we all went we all went out and

3341
03:08:35,840 --> 03:08:38,360
had barbecue after after the debate. We all went to

3342
03:08:38,440 --> 03:08:42,319
a barbecue place, and I like, like like one hundred

3343
03:08:42,319 --> 03:08:44,639
and eighty barbecue wings and so on.

3344
03:08:45,079 --> 03:08:48,079
Speaker 1: I have nothing but respect. I think that he's a

3345
03:08:48,200 --> 03:08:50,319
he's a very very good guy. And probably I have

3346
03:08:50,479 --> 03:08:53,079
had my reservations about him before I met him in person,

3347
03:08:53,239 --> 03:08:55,479
I think that he's a he's a good guy, as

3348
03:08:55,559 --> 03:08:59,000
much as he might still be like have some skepticism

3349
03:08:59,200 --> 03:09:01,559
about me. I have no problem with him at all,

3350
03:09:01,600 --> 03:09:05,600
And I would just uh, ask people who want to

3351
03:09:05,639 --> 03:09:08,760
attack him not to do that. He's a he's a

3352
03:09:08,799 --> 03:09:09,159
good guy.

3353
03:09:10,360 --> 03:09:13,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll say, uh, I'll say yeah, just who

3354
03:09:13,600 --> 03:09:17,680
everyone knows after post debate, we all get along very well.

3355
03:09:18,959 --> 03:09:21,840
Andrew's a brutal debater, but that's you know, that's uh,

3356
03:09:22,239 --> 03:09:27,319
that's debate. I operate on kind of a cool point system, meaning, hey,

3357
03:09:27,319 --> 03:09:29,280
if you do enough cool stuff over here, I'll let

3358
03:09:29,319 --> 03:09:32,639
you slide on other things. And as far as I'm concerned,

3359
03:09:33,000 --> 03:09:37,760
Andrew's Andrew's argument that if Muslims are right and Muhammed

3360
03:09:37,879 --> 03:09:42,239
didn't hurt Aisha when they had sex, Mohammed's member must

3361
03:09:42,280 --> 03:09:45,760
have been uh one one point eight inches or less.

3362
03:09:46,120 --> 03:09:48,760
As far as I'm concerned, based on that alone, based

3363
03:09:48,799 --> 03:09:54,079
on that contribution to apologetics and polemics, Andrew Wilson could

3364
03:09:54,120 --> 03:09:56,280
act murder fifty people and I would not complain, just

3365
03:09:56,319 --> 03:09:59,959
because you know he because of that. Yeah.

3366
03:10:00,440 --> 03:10:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, back to Rachel, Wait a minute, I do have

3367
03:10:06,000 --> 03:10:06,360
a question.

3368
03:10:06,440 --> 03:10:08,879
Speaker 2: Why is Andrew sending his wife to fight his battles

3369
03:10:08,920 --> 03:10:09,200
for him?

3370
03:10:13,280 --> 03:10:14,799
Speaker 1: Rachel? If you want to, if you want to hop on,

3371
03:10:15,360 --> 03:10:16,440
totally cool, by.

3372
03:10:16,360 --> 03:10:19,000
Speaker 2: The way you want Andrew Andrew, He's like Andrew is

3373
03:10:19,040 --> 03:10:22,440
Andrew there and he's like, Rachel, say this, now, sh

3374
03:10:23,200 --> 03:10:25,000
ask him this, ask.

3375
03:10:24,879 --> 03:10:28,639
Speaker 1: Him this, or if Andrew wants to hop on, he

3376
03:10:28,680 --> 03:10:30,719
should as well. We we're having a good time right now.

3377
03:10:30,799 --> 03:10:35,319
So I'm totally open to that. Jay stated that he

3378
03:10:35,440 --> 03:10:37,559
has the same position that Andrew took in the debate.

3379
03:10:37,719 --> 03:10:40,120
Andrew never said Israel had no right to exist, correct,

3380
03:10:40,600 --> 03:10:42,600
only that America had no obligation to support it with

3381
03:10:42,680 --> 03:10:45,719
tax money. Addressed this, This is correct. I completely agree

3382
03:10:45,760 --> 03:10:48,920
with it. I offer a fact that Andrew said during

3383
03:10:49,000 --> 03:10:52,920
the debate that he uh that he doesn't have any

3384
03:10:53,040 --> 03:10:57,440
issue with with Israel's right to exist, that he just

3385
03:10:57,600 --> 03:10:59,959
thinks that we don't need to have an active tax

3386
03:11:00,159 --> 03:11:03,159
support or anything like that for Israel. And you also

3387
03:11:03,399 --> 03:11:06,200
later are clarified in on Twitter they made a post

3388
03:11:06,239 --> 03:11:09,479
about how he believes Israel has the right to exist

3389
03:11:10,159 --> 03:11:12,639
because of which the broypers started attacking him. By the way,

3390
03:11:13,159 --> 03:11:15,159
so I completely agree with that.

3391
03:11:15,319 --> 03:11:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, by the way, this is what I meant earlier

3392
03:11:17,040 --> 03:11:19,680
when I said, you know, people are people are arguing

3393
03:11:19,760 --> 03:11:22,559
and then they don't they don't realize they actually agree

3394
03:11:22,600 --> 03:11:25,360
on a lot of things, Like I wouldn't even say

3395
03:11:25,399 --> 03:11:29,239
that this nation has a moral obligation to support that

3396
03:11:29,440 --> 03:11:33,479
nation with tax money. I would say it's good if

3397
03:11:33,520 --> 03:11:38,479
you can, because just given the given the sheer volume

3398
03:11:38,520 --> 03:11:40,040
of people in the world who would want to wipe

3399
03:11:40,040 --> 03:11:41,920
them out, if you're in a position where he can

3400
03:11:41,959 --> 03:11:43,399
help them, I think it's a I think it's a

3401
03:11:43,399 --> 03:11:46,879
good thing to do because even if they're even if

3402
03:11:46,879 --> 03:11:48,600
they're okay right now, doesn't mean they're gonna be okay

3403
03:11:48,680 --> 03:11:49,799
ten or fifteen years from now.

3404
03:11:49,920 --> 03:12:01,559
Speaker 1: So noise, noise, noise running, it's good. Jeuz searching deeper

3405
03:12:01,680 --> 03:12:04,479
Israel that many kings my many bad. It didn't make

3406
03:12:04,559 --> 03:12:07,920
Israel stop being from God except for exile. The fact

3407
03:12:07,959 --> 03:12:10,000
they returned now, by definition, is from God.

3408
03:12:10,479 --> 03:12:13,000
Speaker 2: Hey, now, Jay suddenly went to perfect lighting.

3409
03:12:14,360 --> 03:12:17,159
Speaker 3: Well, I forgot to plug my little thing in here,

3410
03:12:17,200 --> 03:12:20,319
and so it died, and it was getting all blurry

3411
03:12:20,399 --> 03:12:25,799
and dark and foreboding. But I would disagree with this

3412
03:12:25,959 --> 03:12:29,559
comment because I think Matthew twenty one in the parable,

3413
03:12:29,680 --> 03:12:32,040
we have the notion of the flesh nation of Israel

3414
03:12:32,040 --> 03:12:36,520
as a political entity being divorced. I believe that the

3415
03:12:38,000 --> 03:12:42,399
penal sanctions and the covenantal enforcement of the law in

3416
03:12:42,559 --> 03:12:46,639
terms of Deuteronomy and Leviticus was enforced due to not

3417
03:12:46,799 --> 03:12:50,840
believing in the Messiah. So Israel got a bill of

3418
03:12:50,920 --> 03:12:54,159
divorce that Hoseiah and other text in the Prophets talk about.

3419
03:12:56,079 --> 03:12:58,520
So it doesn't mean that God will not save Jews

3420
03:12:58,600 --> 03:13:01,719
or will not loved you use or ever bring them back,

3421
03:13:02,000 --> 03:13:06,559
but that as a political national entity, that divorce happened

3422
03:13:06,600 --> 03:13:09,719
in seventy eighty. So I think Matthew twenty one to

3423
03:13:09,719 --> 03:13:11,879
forty three is pretty clear noice.

3424
03:13:12,520 --> 03:13:15,079
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, hang on, hang no, never mind, I see, yeah,

3425
03:13:15,079 --> 03:13:15,440
I wouldn't.

3426
03:13:15,440 --> 03:13:17,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't make any I wouldn't make any claims about

3427
03:13:18,760 --> 03:13:21,559
the nation state of Israel being connected in any sense

3428
03:13:21,600 --> 03:13:26,639
to the biblical Israel or anything like that would be

3429
03:13:26,680 --> 03:13:29,319
far fetched in my opinion. But I understand why some

3430
03:13:29,399 --> 03:13:32,719
people do that because of their different theology. I personally

3431
03:13:32,760 --> 03:13:36,879
don't do that, and I would consider that.

3432
03:13:37,040 --> 03:13:37,319
Speaker 2: I would.

3433
03:13:37,319 --> 03:13:39,120
Speaker 1: I would think that in the Orthodox Church that is

3434
03:13:39,120 --> 03:13:43,479
considered heretical. So knows too much. US giving texts eight

3435
03:13:43,559 --> 03:13:46,479
dollars to Israel is a lot. US invests in Israel

3436
03:13:46,520 --> 03:13:49,680
for its own interests, with credit to buy arms from

3437
03:13:49,719 --> 03:13:52,399
the US, gets tech, intel, aircraft improvements, more in return

3438
03:13:52,479 --> 03:13:55,600
worth much more. Yeah, that's that's the thing. That's another issue.

3439
03:13:56,399 --> 03:13:59,079
People often look at how much money supposedly or how

3440
03:13:59,159 --> 03:14:02,799
much aid supposedly America gives to Israel. So there is

3441
03:14:03,399 --> 03:14:05,920
I think over seventy five percent of the eight that

3442
03:14:06,440 --> 03:14:09,920
Israel that America supposedly gives to Israel returns directed to

3443
03:14:09,959 --> 03:14:12,760
the US, not directed to the US government, but to

3444
03:14:12,879 --> 03:14:18,319
US businesses for example. And then I wouldn't be I

3445
03:14:18,360 --> 03:14:21,680
wouldn't consider myself competent enough to make any claims about

3446
03:14:21,719 --> 03:14:25,399
how much of it or whether whether the return exceeds

3447
03:14:25,520 --> 03:14:28,520
the investment or anything like that. But this is basically

3448
03:14:28,600 --> 03:14:34,559
how subsidizing works. For example, where the US gives Israel

3449
03:14:34,719 --> 03:14:38,200
credit to purchase this much from the US at Israel

3450
03:14:38,280 --> 03:14:40,399
then because they don't have a smaller industry, because they

3451
03:14:40,399 --> 03:14:43,760
have a much smaller population, purchases stuff from the US.

3452
03:14:44,200 --> 03:14:47,559
And thereby any aid that we give to Israel comes

3453
03:14:47,840 --> 03:14:54,360
returned to America in form of fostering or feeding US markets.

3454
03:14:54,799 --> 03:14:57,799
So it's actually a very very helpful business. We're not

3455
03:14:58,239 --> 03:15:01,040
just giving them free money. Nobody gives away free money.

3456
03:15:02,200 --> 03:15:04,600
Speaker 3: Okay, it's also not a lie if it's in it's

3457
03:15:04,719 --> 03:15:08,719
I mean it's explicitly mentioned as something in Odayan and

3458
03:15:08,920 --> 03:15:11,120
in the clean bag break strategy, so it's not it's

3459
03:15:11,120 --> 03:15:11,879
always in all.

3460
03:15:11,760 --> 03:15:15,520
Speaker 2: Why I do have to point out, going back to

3461
03:15:15,799 --> 03:15:20,200
Andrew Wilson has tied to the the the aid. Andrew

3462
03:15:20,360 --> 03:15:24,479
was actually the one making the strongest claim in the

3463
03:15:24,559 --> 03:15:27,840
debate because once I mean once Ap clarifies what he

3464
03:15:27,879 --> 03:15:30,920
means by support and stuff like that, it's it's not

3465
03:15:31,079 --> 03:15:33,920
terribly controversial. Andrew was saying, you have a moral obligation

3466
03:15:34,159 --> 03:15:40,079
not to I can't even say support Zionism or something

3467
03:15:40,120 --> 03:15:41,600
like that, because I know, like like all these all

3468
03:15:41,600 --> 03:15:44,000
these terms are ambiguous. But his was saying you have

3469
03:15:44,079 --> 03:15:48,680
an ought not because it could lead to the anti

3470
03:15:48,799 --> 03:15:52,840
a nuclear Antichrist. So but at the end of the day,

3471
03:15:52,840 --> 03:15:55,360
I'm still not I'm still not completely clear on everyone's

3472
03:15:55,360 --> 03:15:57,680
position until like you actually say, Okay, what do you

3473
03:15:57,719 --> 03:15:59,799
mean by should, what do you mean by this? What

3474
03:16:00,040 --> 03:16:00,520
you mean by that?

3475
03:16:02,280 --> 03:16:04,959
Speaker 1: I forgot that that was actually the most contentious aspect

3476
03:16:05,040 --> 03:16:11,559
of artibate. Too many people, including to Jay, actually the

3477
03:16:11,680 --> 03:16:17,239
implication of of me supporting or thinking that it's supporting

3478
03:16:17,239 --> 03:16:22,120
a nation despite the whole Antichrist story. But I don't

3479
03:16:22,120 --> 03:16:25,600
know if if you see where what my point there

3480
03:16:25,680 --> 03:16:28,760
actually was, which was that I don't actually believe that

3481
03:16:28,879 --> 03:16:31,040
there is a that there is a chance of thirty

3482
03:16:31,120 --> 03:16:36,879
percent of the population supporting directly the bringing about of

3483
03:16:36,959 --> 03:16:41,559
the Antichrist or anything like that. I would rather acknowledge,

3484
03:16:41,600 --> 03:16:44,000
for example, that thirty percent of the population supports the

3485
03:16:44,040 --> 03:16:48,040
idea of establishing a third Temple for different reasons. But

3486
03:16:48,159 --> 03:16:50,840
then whether that really entails the bringing about of an

3487
03:16:50,840 --> 03:16:54,120
Antichrist or anything like that would be very extremely speculative

3488
03:16:54,159 --> 03:16:57,440
and in my opinion, not really not really something that

3489
03:16:57,559 --> 03:17:01,040
you can really demonstrate. But even if there was a

3490
03:17:01,280 --> 03:17:04,520
chance that a certain part of the population supports such

3491
03:17:04,520 --> 03:17:07,000
a thing, I would say that it would really necessarily

3492
03:17:07,040 --> 03:17:10,440
get in the way of still supporting well the government,

3493
03:17:11,000 --> 03:17:13,559
because I would I would uh, I would consider this

3494
03:17:13,680 --> 03:17:17,920
support of the people that or of a of an

3495
03:17:18,079 --> 03:17:23,879
entity that protects those people as morally right, which is

3496
03:17:23,959 --> 03:17:28,920
why I wouldn't really look at the possible consequences of

3497
03:17:29,040 --> 03:17:32,120
something like that and make my decisions based on consequentialism.

3498
03:17:32,520 --> 03:17:35,760
Speaker 3: Well, from the Orthodox perspective, we'd have an obligation not

3499
03:17:35,920 --> 03:17:38,600
to because of the whole history with Julian the pasty.

3500
03:17:38,719 --> 03:17:42,000
So Julian wanted to rebuild the temple out of a

3501
03:17:42,120 --> 03:17:46,200
desire to spike Christianity and the patristic teaching when that

3502
03:17:46,360 --> 03:17:50,040
happened was that any temple that would be built as

3503
03:17:50,120 --> 03:17:53,959
the next temple would necessarily be Antichrist. So I think

3504
03:17:54,079 --> 03:17:57,040
from the from the Christian Patristic perspective, we would have

3505
03:17:57,120 --> 03:17:58,879
to say, no, you can't support a third temple.

3506
03:17:59,799 --> 03:18:00,719
Speaker 2: I see, I see.

3507
03:18:01,079 --> 03:18:03,319
Speaker 1: But so my point is never that, or has never

3508
03:18:03,399 --> 03:18:05,799
been that, that I know that this will lead to

3509
03:18:05,799 --> 03:18:07,680
an Antichrist or something like that, and that we should

3510
03:18:07,680 --> 03:18:09,879
still support it. So that'll be kind of a there'll

3511
03:18:09,879 --> 03:18:13,680
be an absurd thing to say, but I see how

3512
03:18:13,760 --> 03:18:16,600
people really really took that and ran.

3513
03:18:16,559 --> 03:18:18,879
Speaker 2: With it empty.

3514
03:18:19,000 --> 03:18:21,000
Speaker 1: Glad we agree there. Ja may don't seem to understand

3515
03:18:21,000 --> 03:18:23,399
that you should always use multiple sources. They think published

3516
03:18:23,479 --> 03:18:28,680
equals factual or published technically equals factual. So definitely, if

3517
03:18:28,719 --> 03:18:32,479
it's written somewhere in one book, it's true. Joji exemplifies

3518
03:18:32,520 --> 03:18:34,760
pride and is designed to cause confusion. Just talk about

3519
03:18:34,760 --> 03:18:36,719
asap and next time, and don't drag it out. Also,

3520
03:18:36,799 --> 03:18:41,239
that would become orthodox. You see. Yeah, David is actually

3521
03:18:41,760 --> 03:18:44,399
soon going to attend an Orthodox liturgy and then he

3522
03:18:44,440 --> 03:18:47,120
can tell us all what he thinks about it. Fisherman's Corner,

3523
03:18:47,280 --> 03:18:49,879
Thanks J Sorry limited the words available, but totally agree.

3524
03:18:49,920 --> 03:18:52,639
Pope kingship meant absolute monarch of the Vatican City State.

3525
03:18:53,079 --> 03:18:56,600
The letter entreaty made him soeign authority, effectively establishing a theocracy.

3526
03:18:57,040 --> 03:18:59,120
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that definitely happened.

3527
03:18:59,200 --> 03:19:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, romology, You see, David Wood and Mike Winger are

3528
03:19:02,719 --> 03:19:04,639
the same person as a conspiracy by the CA to

3529
03:19:04,719 --> 03:19:06,440
force need culture of the Christian population.

3530
03:19:06,559 --> 03:19:07,000
Speaker 3: This is true.

3531
03:19:07,239 --> 03:19:10,399
Speaker 1: Look, it's even said. It says Wingling number one on

3532
03:19:10,559 --> 03:19:11,159
his tag here.

3533
03:19:13,399 --> 03:19:15,760
Speaker 2: Incredible. I'm gonna quit doing live streams with you. Keep

3534
03:19:15,840 --> 03:19:19,000
changing my name to ridiculous things of my mortal enemies.

3535
03:19:20,479 --> 03:19:22,719
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Uh, By isn't

3536
03:19:22,799 --> 03:19:25,200
in warrior? The intellectual capital president here right now is

3537
03:19:25,280 --> 03:19:28,000
off the charts. Gentlemen, keep up the fight and above all,

3538
03:19:28,120 --> 03:19:31,399
states stay united. Many of us out here are inspired

3539
03:19:31,440 --> 03:19:35,159
when leadership an example like yours is so great. Uh

3540
03:19:38,200 --> 03:19:43,520
I'm not a leader, and it says right here that

3541
03:19:43,559 --> 03:19:48,239
I'm the most humble, So yeah, tes what ps? My

3542
03:19:48,360 --> 03:19:50,399
question seemed topical that time of sending, but then not

3543
03:19:50,479 --> 03:19:52,440
so much plus very late and sleep in UK. Sorry,

3544
03:19:52,520 --> 03:19:55,879
go to sleep. Also just wanted to say shout out

3545
03:19:55,920 --> 03:19:58,159
to a posted profit and again thanks to j for

3546
03:19:58,239 --> 03:20:00,280
bringing me out of Calvinism. By the way, know you

3547
03:20:00,319 --> 03:20:03,840
all missed my previous chant, but didn't miss anything. Stop

3548
03:20:03,959 --> 03:20:08,200
this in Calvinism. We're not huge fight with anybody, not

3549
03:20:08,319 --> 03:20:09,239
even with Calvinists.

3550
03:20:10,719 --> 03:20:12,639
Speaker 3: Well, I will say that before I got on here,

3551
03:20:14,600 --> 03:20:16,639
most of my friends and people that I respected, and

3552
03:20:16,879 --> 03:20:21,399
you know clergy as well, everyone counseled uh to seek

3553
03:20:21,479 --> 03:20:23,360
for peace. So that's that's what I came to do.

3554
03:20:24,079 --> 03:20:25,840
So I think a lot of people thought, oh, it's

3555
03:20:25,879 --> 03:20:28,840
going to be a you know, knock down, drag out battle.

3556
03:20:29,200 --> 03:20:29,879
Speaker 2: I came for war.

3557
03:20:30,079 --> 03:20:35,040
Speaker 3: I came, I figured yeah, but people think, oh, Dyer

3558
03:20:35,120 --> 03:20:37,959
doesn't listen to his spiritual you know, advisors, and he

3559
03:20:38,120 --> 03:20:41,559
just goes in debates and no. I was actually coming

3560
03:20:41,639 --> 03:20:43,440
thinking that we're going to have a huge fight. But

3561
03:20:43,959 --> 03:20:45,920
all the people that I respect, un lists do said

3562
03:20:46,639 --> 03:20:49,959
go easy, calm down, be peaceful, be a peacemaker. So

3563
03:20:50,680 --> 03:20:51,600
that's what I tried to do.

3564
03:20:52,079 --> 03:20:54,959
Speaker 2: I actually I actually planned for I thought AP was

3565
03:20:55,000 --> 03:20:57,319
going to be like Okay, well, I'm sorry about this

3566
03:20:57,479 --> 03:20:59,159
and this and this and this and that, and then

3567
03:20:59,200 --> 03:21:00,680
he was going to turn it over to Jay and

3568
03:21:01,159 --> 03:21:03,440
and go, uh, what do you think Jay, and Jay

3569
03:21:03,559 --> 03:21:05,440
was gonna be, Yeah, I regret this and this and that,

3570
03:21:05,639 --> 03:21:07,920
and I was I already had it playing in my head.

3571
03:21:08,440 --> 03:21:10,280
I was gonna I was like, no, it's gonna be

3572
03:21:10,319 --> 03:21:13,079
too boring. I'm just gonna set things off by uh

3573
03:21:13,399 --> 03:21:15,799
riling everybody up. And I was gonna say, you know,

3574
03:21:15,959 --> 03:21:19,799
and uh. In Second Kings, there's the story of Elisha

3575
03:21:19,959 --> 03:21:22,079
and he there's a famine in the land, and he

3576
03:21:22,200 --> 03:21:24,159
goes and meets with the sons of the prophets, and

3577
03:21:24,239 --> 03:21:26,559
he says, hey, why don't we gather up some stuff

3578
03:21:26,639 --> 03:21:28,319
to make a pot of stew? And they go out

3579
03:21:28,360 --> 03:21:32,360
there and they finds the guy finds a gourd, but

3580
03:21:32,440 --> 03:21:34,280
he doesn't know it's a poison goard. But anyway, they

3581
03:21:34,360 --> 03:21:36,200
make the stew and then they say, ah, there's death

3582
03:21:36,239 --> 03:21:38,399
in the pot. There's death in the pot. This is poison.

3583
03:21:39,760 --> 03:21:42,719
I was gonna say, the online Orthobro community is like

3584
03:21:42,840 --> 03:21:45,959
that pot of poisoned gord stew. I was just gonna

3585
03:21:46,000 --> 03:21:48,200
start from there. And I was gonna. I was gonna say,

3586
03:21:48,200 --> 03:21:50,920
I apologize for nothing, I regret for nothing. I was

3587
03:21:50,959 --> 03:21:53,840
just gonna sit back and see what happened there. And

3588
03:21:53,920 --> 03:21:56,000
that's why everyone, everyone who's watching, at the beginning you

3589
03:21:56,040 --> 03:21:58,360
saw me grinning. I was just I was like waiting

3590
03:21:58,399 --> 03:22:03,159
for an opportunity to to uh, to derail everything, but

3591
03:22:03,280 --> 03:22:03,840
then I didn't.

3592
03:22:03,920 --> 03:22:08,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I really appreciate that, Jay, And I

3593
03:22:08,680 --> 03:22:11,879
also kind of I wanted to truly just go into

3594
03:22:11,920 --> 03:22:16,399
it making peace and had the very same experience. Consulted

3595
03:22:16,479 --> 03:22:20,959
several people, and yeah, it's good to go with what

3596
03:22:21,120 --> 03:22:26,799
wiser people say. Please read Zacharia eight twenty three. It's

3597
03:22:26,879 --> 03:22:34,239
eschatological amstra kai. What does Zacharia eight twenty three say, David,

3598
03:22:34,280 --> 03:22:35,079
you know it all by memory?

3599
03:22:35,120 --> 03:22:37,399
Speaker 2: What does it say not eight twenty three?

3600
03:22:38,680 --> 03:22:41,079
Speaker 1: What this is what the Lord Almighty says? In those

3601
03:22:41,239 --> 03:22:43,879
days ten people from all languages and nations will take

3602
03:22:43,959 --> 03:22:46,079
firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his

3603
03:22:46,239 --> 03:22:48,639
robe and say, let us go with you, because we

3604
03:22:48,799 --> 03:22:50,000
have heard that God is with.

3605
03:22:50,120 --> 03:22:54,760
Speaker 3: You well, or the arts view that one Jew is Jesus.

3606
03:22:57,239 --> 03:23:00,200
Speaker 1: So maybe this was the point of Arctic based here

3607
03:23:00,200 --> 03:23:04,920
as well. Nice those too much does JD acknowledge the

3608
03:23:05,000 --> 03:23:07,280
fact that the way too many people selectively apply in

3609
03:23:07,360 --> 03:23:10,319
sane double standards and lies half truth to attack Jews

3610
03:23:10,399 --> 03:23:10,959
and Israel.

3611
03:23:13,840 --> 03:23:18,360
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I'm willing to debate or be corrected

3612
03:23:18,479 --> 03:23:20,639
on any of the points that that people bring up.

3613
03:23:20,799 --> 03:23:25,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that because of our disagreements, lots

3614
03:23:25,920 --> 03:23:29,200
of people who are kind of like on my side

3615
03:23:29,200 --> 03:23:33,319
of things had the impression that that you Jay are

3616
03:23:33,600 --> 03:23:39,760
like much more so hostile toward Israel or even Jews

3617
03:23:39,799 --> 03:23:43,879
or Judaism. So I know from our past interactions that

3618
03:23:43,959 --> 03:23:45,760
that is not the case, but I think that many

3619
03:23:45,760 --> 03:23:48,000
people here at the have a different impression.

3620
03:23:48,079 --> 03:23:50,600
Speaker 3: So well, that happens on the internet, like in general,

3621
03:23:50,879 --> 03:23:53,840
I mean people assume if you say one thing about this,

3622
03:23:54,079 --> 03:23:57,280
they then assume that, for example, if I question an event,

3623
03:23:57,520 --> 03:23:59,360
or if I believe that there's a false flag, Oh

3624
03:23:59,440 --> 03:24:01,280
you think every thing is a conspiracy and everything is

3625
03:24:01,319 --> 03:24:04,239
a false No, that's that's not that doesn't follow. And

3626
03:24:04,440 --> 03:24:07,920
if I disagree with I don't know this policy that

3627
03:24:08,120 --> 03:24:10,799
Israel's doing or that policy or this thing, then that

3628
03:24:10,920 --> 03:24:14,520
must mean you hate all Jews. No, oh, you don't

3629
03:24:14,639 --> 03:24:17,040
criticize to the level I do, or whatever, then you're

3630
03:24:17,040 --> 03:24:19,760
a zion a stagent. Oh oh, you you know, it's

3631
03:24:19,840 --> 03:24:21,600
just everybody goes to these extremes.

3632
03:24:22,280 --> 03:24:24,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw early as somebody said that jaydy are

3633
03:24:24,799 --> 03:24:28,920
basically revealed hereby that he's a tool of the Freemasons

3634
03:24:29,040 --> 03:24:35,159
or something like that. I think, how did that happen?

3635
03:24:35,559 --> 03:24:39,040
Speaker 3: Well, I disagree with freemasonry, so I critique it all

3636
03:24:39,079 --> 03:24:42,000
the time. Have I have Albert Pike's Worlds and Dogmas

3637
03:24:42,040 --> 03:24:44,799
right down here, So I got many critiques of You.

3638
03:24:44,799 --> 03:24:48,399
Speaker 1: Know, what's interesting about freemasonry. It's so to my understanding

3639
03:24:48,479 --> 03:24:51,680
of the history of it. It's a very recent history

3640
03:24:51,719 --> 03:24:56,200
actually of how people understand freemasonry, and just less than

3641
03:24:56,200 --> 03:24:59,479
a one hundred years ago, many people who are now

3642
03:24:59,639 --> 03:25:04,079
stong unchly anti freemasonry would have just considered it something

3643
03:25:05,079 --> 03:25:08,440
interesting or possibly good or positive. It's because it had

3644
03:25:08,440 --> 03:25:12,479
a very different impression on people than it has today.

3645
03:25:13,040 --> 03:25:16,319
The perception of it very very much changed dramatically in

3646
03:25:16,360 --> 03:25:20,040
one hundred years. So when people look at past figures

3647
03:25:20,079 --> 03:25:23,000
whoa a one hundred years ago were Freemasons, they say, oh, look,

3648
03:25:23,360 --> 03:25:26,200
obviously very evil person. But one hundred years ago, being

3649
03:25:26,200 --> 03:25:29,360
a Freemason was perceived completely differently from how it is today.

3650
03:25:30,879 --> 03:25:35,680
Speaker 3: So here's Morals and Dogma Albert Pike. And here is

3651
03:25:36,000 --> 03:25:40,239
pages five, seventy six and seventy seven where Albert Pike

3652
03:25:40,319 --> 03:25:44,680
affirms that the secrets of Freemasonry are basically just neoplatonism.

3653
03:25:45,680 --> 03:25:49,719
Every Orthodox Christian that I know that's serious about orthodoxy

3654
03:25:49,920 --> 03:25:54,360
rejects neoplatonism because it's the basis for why people deny

3655
03:25:54,440 --> 03:25:59,920
the essence entergy sinction. Also, mainline history has some good

3656
03:26:00,120 --> 03:26:07,280
takes on British imperial use of Freemasonry for espionage. So

3657
03:26:08,159 --> 03:26:10,399
I'm not a Freemason either.

3658
03:26:10,479 --> 03:26:12,760
Speaker 1: The disturbing thing about this is it is also that

3659
03:26:14,559 --> 03:26:19,440
it basically kind of replaces Christianity when you go into it,

3660
03:26:19,719 --> 03:26:23,760
and establishes a very perennialist theology.

3661
03:26:24,920 --> 03:26:29,840
Speaker 3: And actually, yeah, the morals in Dogma chapter on Christianity

3662
03:26:29,879 --> 03:26:33,079
the Trinity, he says, just reinterpret as perennialism.

3663
03:26:36,159 --> 03:26:39,120
Speaker 1: Why is the Christian history of Palestine ignored? Palestinian Orthodox

3664
03:26:39,239 --> 03:26:43,479
Christians are ancient communities forgotten the crossfire by both sides. True.

3665
03:26:44,559 --> 03:26:50,600
There is even genetic studies show that show that show

3666
03:26:50,639 --> 03:26:55,600
that Palestinian Christians in general are significantly closer to the

3667
03:26:55,639 --> 03:26:59,360
ancient populations than Palestinian Muslims on average, because the Palestinian

3668
03:26:59,399 --> 03:27:02,600
Muslims on every are much more likely to have influence

3669
03:27:02,680 --> 03:27:07,079
from or you know, history of being associated or related

3670
03:27:07,120 --> 03:27:10,639
to the invading Arab forces and all that. The Palestinian

3671
03:27:10,760 --> 03:27:16,079
Christians have a much more, much deeper and older history.

3672
03:27:16,120 --> 03:27:19,799
But the thing is also that they by now have

3673
03:27:20,079 --> 03:27:23,920
endured a thousand years of one thousand and four hundred

3674
03:27:23,959 --> 03:27:28,920
years of Islamic rule and thereby become completely quiet and tamed.

3675
03:27:29,120 --> 03:27:30,959
So this is just what happens.

3676
03:27:31,280 --> 03:27:33,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a good there was a periods in

3677
03:27:33,760 --> 03:27:37,600
the Middle Ages when it was a Byzantine imperial protectorate,

3678
03:27:38,959 --> 03:27:43,280
and eventually Byzantium got weaker and weaker and weaker, and

3679
03:27:43,360 --> 03:27:48,319
they just couldn't help or do anything against the Caliphate

3680
03:27:48,840 --> 03:27:51,159
in Middle East.

3681
03:27:52,000 --> 03:27:56,559
Speaker 1: Yep, very very much. Arocotta as a former atheist, if

3682
03:27:56,680 --> 03:27:58,719
what is your opinion on tag? They usually use this

3683
03:27:58,719 --> 03:28:00,639
sort of an atheist so your opinion interesting? Do you

3684
03:28:00,680 --> 03:28:04,040
have any questions about it? For Jay, It's not an

3685
03:28:04,360 --> 03:28:09,559
argument that I'm terribly well informed on, but I've also

3686
03:28:09,680 --> 03:28:13,200
generally in the past expressed that I am not really

3687
03:28:14,440 --> 03:28:20,319
greatly interested in arguments for the existence of God or

3688
03:28:20,360 --> 03:28:23,399
against even in my atheist phases, I kind of thought

3689
03:28:23,760 --> 03:28:27,680
considered it all a little bit irrelevant to my reasons

3690
03:28:27,680 --> 03:28:31,399
for believing it or not believing. That's side. From what

3691
03:28:31,440 --> 03:28:33,040
I understand of it, it is a little bit of

3692
03:28:33,079 --> 03:28:40,840
a presuppositionist perspective, and I don't really know what to

3693
03:28:40,840 --> 03:28:43,600
say about it, what to ask about it, if anything

3694
03:28:43,639 --> 03:28:43,920
at all.

3695
03:28:44,799 --> 03:28:50,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it is a pretty obscure philosophical argument

3696
03:28:50,920 --> 03:28:54,120
for God's existence, So I think the challenge is that

3697
03:28:54,520 --> 03:28:57,760
it kind of requires a good bit of philosophical interest

3698
03:28:58,120 --> 03:29:01,239
and proclivities for people to to even get into it.

3699
03:29:02,280 --> 03:29:04,760
So that's probably the biggest weakness or challenge for TAG.

3700
03:29:04,879 --> 03:29:10,559
But I think it's it's a logically useful argument, you know,

3701
03:29:10,719 --> 03:29:12,920
maybe touching on the point that you made earlier about

3702
03:29:13,479 --> 03:29:17,159
reason and philosophy and scholasticism. I think that in orthodoxy

3703
03:29:17,639 --> 03:29:21,280
we would agree that reason and logic and apologetics are

3704
03:29:21,440 --> 03:29:25,159
useful and they have a key role, but they're really

3705
03:29:25,280 --> 03:29:27,639
just kind of sign pointers pointing to the Church. They

3706
03:29:27,719 --> 03:29:30,760
can't they can't do much more than that. So it

3707
03:29:30,879 --> 03:29:33,000
definitely has a place we have to do apologetics, but

3708
03:29:34,239 --> 03:29:38,959
the summation of orthodoxyology is definitely not rationalized apologetics per se.

3709
03:29:40,360 --> 03:29:42,479
But I think I think it's a solid argument.

3710
03:29:42,600 --> 03:29:45,840
Speaker 1: Isn't it kind of historically more associated with Calvinist.

3711
03:29:46,879 --> 03:29:48,840
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, I mean, you can and found

3712
03:29:48,879 --> 03:29:54,280
the Knowledge Chapter one, John Damascus uses Aristotle's transcendental argument

3713
03:29:54,520 --> 03:29:58,719
for why you can't deny logic or you can't deny

3714
03:29:58,959 --> 03:30:02,559
world views. So I would say there's precedent for it

3715
03:30:03,079 --> 03:30:06,719
prior to John Calvin, or I mean prior to Monson

3716
03:30:06,799 --> 03:30:10,239
or Van until they did versions of it. But I

3717
03:30:10,319 --> 03:30:13,680
don't think that. I that'd be like saying, well, Aristotle

3718
03:30:14,559 --> 03:30:17,079
did a first cause argument, so if you use a

3719
03:30:17,120 --> 03:30:20,559
first cause argument, you're a univers Ittilian. Well, not necessarily.

3720
03:30:20,639 --> 03:30:25,239
Many church fathers have used cosmological arguments, different arguments, so

3721
03:30:26,079 --> 03:30:28,440
it'd be a genetic fallacy to say that if that

3722
03:30:29,000 --> 03:30:32,079
the person making the argument determines whether it's good or bad,

3723
03:30:32,159 --> 03:30:33,520
well the argument stands on his own.

3724
03:30:34,360 --> 03:30:35,799
Speaker 1: So Aristotle was at most of them anyway.

3725
03:30:35,920 --> 03:30:40,639
Speaker 3: So I just read that a lot of is I

3726
03:30:40,680 --> 03:30:43,840
didn't realize a lot of Islamic stuff. I mean, I've

3727
03:30:43,920 --> 03:30:45,879
heard this, but I didn't really think that much about it.

3728
03:30:45,959 --> 03:30:48,760
But there's a good there's a little book on the

3729
03:30:48,799 --> 03:30:53,120
business impart by Runsaman. There's also the Norwich Trilogy, which

3730
03:30:53,200 --> 03:30:56,520
is a big, fat, really long Byzantine history book. But

3731
03:30:57,000 --> 03:30:59,920
he talks about a lot of Islamic culture was getting

3732
03:31:00,000 --> 03:31:04,840
its education from Byzantine philosophers and theologians, so they didn't

3733
03:31:04,840 --> 03:31:09,879
even have like an innate academic, you know, rigor. It's

3734
03:31:09,920 --> 03:31:13,639
all kind of borrowed from Hellenic culture and Byzantine culture.

3735
03:31:14,399 --> 03:31:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a will William Lane Craig, I remember years ago.

3736
03:31:17,479 --> 03:31:21,719
So William Lane Craig, he uses the Klam cosmological argument.

3737
03:31:22,000 --> 03:31:24,479
And then there was an Australian Muslim who was complaining,

3738
03:31:24,559 --> 03:31:27,079
Wait a minute, it's called the Kalam cosmological argument because

3739
03:31:27,079 --> 03:31:29,719
it was a Muslim argument. You're stealing arguments, you're stealing arguments.

3740
03:31:30,319 --> 03:31:32,040
And then I was reading about it one day and

3741
03:31:32,120 --> 03:31:34,760
I was, no, Muslim's got it. Muslims got at least

3742
03:31:34,799 --> 03:31:37,680
part of it from a heretical Christian who came before

3743
03:31:37,879 --> 03:31:40,959
and so on. So but and so what Muslims can't

3744
03:31:41,040 --> 03:31:43,000
use it. No, it's like the argument at the end

3745
03:31:43,000 --> 03:31:45,440
of the day, the argument stands our falls based on

3746
03:31:45,559 --> 03:31:48,319
whether it's a good argument, not on whether not on

3747
03:31:48,440 --> 03:31:50,719
who who used it in the past or something like that.

3748
03:31:57,600 --> 03:32:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Freemason, he's just glorified, is not. Like, So this

3749
03:32:01,360 --> 03:32:03,159
is also the thing. I was a little bit surprised

3750
03:32:03,879 --> 03:32:08,239
that in the in the in the in the nineteenth

3751
03:32:08,360 --> 03:32:12,040
century and the twentieth century, early early twentieth century, there

3752
03:32:12,079 --> 03:32:18,719
were quite some respected Christian religious leaders, including Orthodox Catholic

3753
03:32:19,040 --> 03:32:22,079
and others not sure what Catholic anes, but I don't know,

3754
03:32:22,079 --> 03:32:24,959
have Orthodox religious figures that were that were early on

3755
03:32:27,200 --> 03:32:29,920
Freemasons and part of freemasonry. And I was kind of

3756
03:32:30,239 --> 03:32:32,520
a little bit puzzled and surprised to find that out.

3757
03:32:32,639 --> 03:32:35,319
But I guess there was kind of an interest at

3758
03:32:35,360 --> 03:32:39,600
that time in freemasonry without fully going into how and

3759
03:32:39,760 --> 03:32:44,040
why it is in contradiction with Christianity. But then the

3760
03:32:44,879 --> 03:32:49,799
objections and disagreements, especially to the whole the ceremonial aspects

3761
03:32:49,840 --> 03:32:54,159
of it, the ritualistic aspects, and the theological problems within

3762
03:32:54,200 --> 03:32:59,559
it invited more and more objections in scrutiny, and churches

3763
03:32:59,600 --> 03:33:03,159
openly started condemning it, upon which it became incredibly unpopular.

3764
03:33:03,600 --> 03:33:07,680
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, both Orthodox and Catholics are technically not supposed

3765
03:33:07,719 --> 03:33:10,959
to be members of the lodges. So if it happens,

3766
03:33:11,000 --> 03:33:14,799
it happens contrary to the normal canon law, and it

3767
03:33:14,879 --> 03:33:17,959
does happen. But you know, there's people have free will.

3768
03:33:18,000 --> 03:33:21,079
There's many reasons why people choose to do things. So

3769
03:33:23,040 --> 03:33:25,559
it could be there could have been espionage, there could

3770
03:33:25,559 --> 03:33:28,719
have been infiltration, there could have been just people don't

3771
03:33:28,760 --> 03:33:30,959
care what can of law says. They do what they want.

3772
03:33:31,120 --> 03:33:32,440
So a lot of different motivations.

3773
03:33:33,559 --> 03:33:38,360
Speaker 2: Big Lee. So far as freemasonry being a glorified club,

3774
03:33:38,399 --> 03:33:40,840
I mentioned you once before ap that I was locked

3775
03:33:40,879 --> 03:33:44,479
up with a guy whose dad was a higher up

3776
03:33:44,600 --> 03:33:48,639
guy who initiated the higher ups and so on. But

3777
03:33:48,760 --> 03:33:51,000
he said, he said, yeah, up to a certain level,

3778
03:33:51,040 --> 03:33:53,440
it's a club. But once you get up to a

3779
03:33:53,520 --> 03:33:56,319
certain level, then they start. Then they start telling you

3780
03:33:56,399 --> 03:34:00,879
some other things. The way of verifying that it's a guy.

3781
03:34:00,920 --> 03:34:02,479
It's a guy in prison telling me this stuff.

3782
03:34:02,520 --> 03:34:06,559
Speaker 1: But it sounds a little bit like cap as the

3783
03:34:06,600 --> 03:34:11,600
wee lads say, Uh, to my understanding, much of much

3784
03:34:11,639 --> 03:34:13,760
of what's actually just happening there, it's just that they

3785
03:34:13,799 --> 03:34:16,920
have weird, weird, weird beliefs and rituals and all that.

3786
03:34:17,399 --> 03:34:22,000
That's it. Nothing really shady and messed up involved, but

3787
03:34:22,680 --> 03:34:26,840
people like to speculate about powerful clubs. Nowadays it has

3788
03:34:26,959 --> 03:34:30,079
very much become irrelevant in the world it used. It

3789
03:34:30,239 --> 03:34:31,120
used to be very big.

3790
03:34:32,280 --> 03:34:35,600
Speaker 3: It was it was a real tool of the British Empire,

3791
03:34:35,920 --> 03:34:38,200
and it was used by a lot of different groups

3792
03:34:38,239 --> 03:34:44,520
and different you know, power blocks for revolution. So I

3793
03:34:44,600 --> 03:34:46,639
think that's pretty well to demonstrate. You can you can

3794
03:34:46,680 --> 03:34:50,319
demonstrate the fact I had a mainline history class on

3795
03:34:50,440 --> 03:34:54,120
modern Europe and the French Revolution, and my my professor

3796
03:34:54,360 --> 03:34:57,399
was a French revolutionary specialist. And you know, you can

3797
03:34:57,479 --> 03:35:00,559
read our R. Palmer's book. There's a lot of texts

3798
03:35:00,559 --> 03:35:03,360
that will just be mainline histories on the key role

3799
03:35:03,440 --> 03:35:07,000
of Freemasonry and the jacob and Revolution in France. So

3800
03:35:07,920 --> 03:35:09,040
it has been used.

3801
03:35:10,600 --> 03:35:15,680
Speaker 1: Noisee noice. I'm getting very, very tired. But there's like

3802
03:35:15,840 --> 03:35:18,200
there's like an endless flow of superchazzia. For some reason,

3803
03:35:18,799 --> 03:35:22,000
everybody loves this. Everybody came for a fight and now

3804
03:35:22,040 --> 03:35:27,079
everybody just wants to have a conversation. Quiet, gentlemen, I

3805
03:35:27,120 --> 03:35:30,280
would like your thoughts on the book. Philokealia Saint Nicodemos

3806
03:35:30,319 --> 03:35:32,120
ever read it in good seminary suggestions.

3807
03:35:32,520 --> 03:35:32,959
Speaker 2: This is you.

3808
03:35:34,719 --> 03:35:37,959
Speaker 3: I've looked at the Philocalia. It's a very long you know,

3809
03:35:38,360 --> 03:35:41,399
usually people in the Orthodox Church don't recommend it for

3810
03:35:41,479 --> 03:35:44,280
people that are new or converts or anything. It's more

3811
03:35:44,319 --> 03:35:48,239
of an advanced kind of monastic text. So, but a

3812
03:35:48,319 --> 03:35:51,319
lot of the philo Colia's selections of church fathers and

3813
03:35:51,360 --> 03:35:54,280
other spiritual writings, nice.

3814
03:35:54,159 --> 03:35:58,719
Speaker 1: Nice noice atism. Jay, If you ever at some point

3815
03:35:58,760 --> 03:35:59,959
get board, you can just.

3816
03:36:00,079 --> 03:36:02,520
Speaker 2: Let me know and then, yeah, we're not We're not

3817
03:36:02,639 --> 03:36:04,879
easily offended by saying, hey, I'm tired, I gotta go.

3818
03:36:05,920 --> 03:36:09,760
Speaker 1: You do we have a problem with your eyes. By

3819
03:36:09,799 --> 03:36:11,159
the way, I notice that you do this thing a

3820
03:36:11,200 --> 03:36:13,440
lot with like when when there's light or something.

3821
03:36:13,760 --> 03:36:15,760
Speaker 3: I do have sensitive eyes. I also have really bad

3822
03:36:15,799 --> 03:36:18,440
allergies too, so I water and burn a lot.

3823
03:36:18,959 --> 03:36:21,120
Speaker 2: I see, why are you attacking this man for his eyes?

3824
03:36:22,520 --> 03:36:24,959
Speaker 1: I have to find a reason to fight, Jay. How

3825
03:36:25,000 --> 03:36:26,520
do you study the books you personally pick up for

3826
03:36:26,600 --> 03:36:30,479
reads with sticky notes, highlighting, writing, in et cetera. I've

3827
03:36:30,479 --> 03:36:32,440
been looking to ask this. Notice you use a crap

3828
03:36:32,559 --> 03:36:34,440
ton of sticky notes. How do you analyze?

3829
03:36:34,959 --> 03:36:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think a lot of times people expect there

3830
03:36:36,840 --> 03:36:40,239
to be some you know, really worked out answer about studying,

3831
03:36:40,319 --> 03:36:43,000
and there's not. Basically, I just underline a lot and

3832
03:36:43,079 --> 03:36:46,680
I don't care about the price of the books or

3833
03:36:46,719 --> 03:36:49,639
anything like. This is an old copy of Morals and Dogma.

3834
03:36:50,680 --> 03:36:53,200
It's very marked up, and really all the sticky notes

3835
03:36:53,200 --> 03:36:56,079
are are summaries of what's on an important page. That's it.

3836
03:36:56,719 --> 03:36:56,840
Speaker 2: You know.

3837
03:36:56,959 --> 03:36:59,879
Speaker 1: I really admire that, But I personally never believe that

3838
03:36:59,879 --> 03:37:02,159
I could ever do that, because I have the most

3839
03:37:02,280 --> 03:37:06,000
chaotic way of studying things, which is just getting a

3840
03:37:06,079 --> 03:37:08,319
book that I am personally interested in because I think, oh,

3841
03:37:08,360 --> 03:37:10,680
there is this one one thing in that book that

3842
03:37:10,719 --> 03:37:12,719
I want to read. So I get the book and

3843
03:37:12,799 --> 03:37:14,360
I open the page and I read it, and I

3844
03:37:14,399 --> 03:37:15,559
read a section of it and I think, well, this

3845
03:37:15,680 --> 03:37:17,360
is really really good. I'm going to keep this in

3846
03:37:17,399 --> 03:37:18,840
memory that on a market and I put it away

3847
03:37:18,920 --> 03:37:20,840
never never pick it up again. And then I look

3848
03:37:20,920 --> 03:37:23,440
up the same book online to market online as well

3849
03:37:23,799 --> 03:37:25,559
on a kindle or something, but then I never get

3850
03:37:25,600 --> 03:37:27,280
back to it, and then I have it somewhere in

3851
03:37:27,360 --> 03:37:29,559
my memory and I can't remember where it is. And

3852
03:37:29,799 --> 03:37:31,120
this is just what I do with everything.

3853
03:37:31,280 --> 03:37:33,600
Speaker 3: Well, some of the pages are basically just all underlined.

3854
03:37:34,319 --> 03:37:38,040
So but I think that that's actually useful because for me,

3855
03:37:38,120 --> 03:37:40,159
I'm kind of a visual tac tall person. So if

3856
03:37:40,200 --> 03:37:42,760
I'm seeing it and underlining it, I'm kind of, you know,

3857
03:37:42,959 --> 03:37:43,920
just soaking it in more.

3858
03:37:44,479 --> 03:37:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Christ entrusted doctor alex Doavrijano Duck. He says, Christ

3859
03:37:52,440 --> 03:37:54,479
entrusted truth to our church. There can be no compromise

3860
03:37:54,520 --> 03:37:56,920
when it comes to the understanding of the faith. Truth

3861
03:37:57,040 --> 03:37:59,440
is truth, it never changes. The same mark of Ephesis

3862
03:37:59,520 --> 03:38:03,799
defended his faith when others planned to compromise truth. What's

3863
03:38:04,079 --> 03:38:08,040
What's what's interesting to me is also, however, that Saint

3864
03:38:08,079 --> 03:38:15,200
Mark himself did express right that he has respect full

3865
03:38:15,280 --> 03:38:18,360
respect for the seat of the of the Bishop of Rome.

3866
03:38:18,799 --> 03:38:21,879
Speaker 3: Well said that before before Florence, but he didn't say

3867
03:38:21,920 --> 03:38:22,200
that after.

3868
03:38:22,879 --> 03:38:27,959
Speaker 1: But didn't he say that he he does believe in unity,

3869
03:38:28,079 --> 03:38:30,639
but that it is done under the right circumstances instead

3870
03:38:30,639 --> 03:38:32,879
of rushing it into it and doing it for pragmatic

3871
03:38:32,959 --> 03:38:34,000
reasons or something like that.

3872
03:38:35,360 --> 03:38:38,040
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, yeah, after Florence, he said that he

3873
03:38:38,200 --> 03:38:41,040
realized that the Roman See is way worse than he thought,

3874
03:38:41,280 --> 03:38:43,559
and he calls them a para synagogue. So he says

3875
03:38:43,559 --> 03:38:47,840
they're not even really a church. So the after ephesis

3876
03:38:48,120 --> 03:38:50,920
is mark of ephsis is way more extreme than the before.

3877
03:38:51,079 --> 03:38:52,639
He was very hopeful for union.

3878
03:38:54,079 --> 03:38:56,719
Speaker 1: Fisherman's corner. David excellent point. Covenisn't believes the same thing

3879
03:38:56,760 --> 03:38:58,920
the Bible explicit is as false. He just originators of

3880
03:38:58,959 --> 03:39:02,200
sin will be punished accordingly. And in calviy daily quote

3881
03:39:02,200 --> 03:39:05,840
saying that God creates evil as sin, et cetera. Why

3882
03:39:06,000 --> 03:39:07,280
is everyone attacking Colonism?

3883
03:39:08,639 --> 03:39:10,040
Speaker 2: Oh? I think that was That was when I said

3884
03:39:10,040 --> 03:39:13,200
earlier about the point el was making about about allaw

3885
03:39:13,719 --> 03:39:17,239
deserving the most punishment because he's the one who leads

3886
03:39:17,360 --> 03:39:19,319
people astract. Yeah, that would be a that would be

3887
03:39:19,399 --> 03:39:22,360
a uh, that would certainly be one of the main

3888
03:39:22,559 --> 03:39:24,520
objections for Calvinism.

3889
03:39:25,239 --> 03:39:30,200
Speaker 1: Power gonna make uh Anthony Rogers angry?

3890
03:39:30,280 --> 03:39:34,239
Speaker 2: Now Anthony Anthony will Anthony will try to respond? So

3891
03:39:34,280 --> 03:39:35,719
Anthony's Anthony's.

3892
03:39:35,280 --> 03:39:41,360
Speaker 1: Cool, Anthony's watching infuming as we speak, uh rctly jadap

3893
03:39:41,520 --> 03:39:44,520
Why do they run the media Hollywood news music? Most

3894
03:39:44,559 --> 03:39:48,239
of the Ivory colleagues are colleges are politicians, APAK donors,

3895
03:39:48,319 --> 03:39:51,079
think tanks, ADL social media from the small hats Now,

3896
03:39:51,719 --> 03:39:56,440
my initial talk about the Irish, My initial urge when

3897
03:39:56,479 --> 03:39:58,440
I see this stuff is to just click it away.

3898
03:39:58,840 --> 03:40:00,639
But here's the thing. If I take it away, then

3899
03:40:02,879 --> 03:40:08,200
the truth because it works for the Jews. Let's see

3900
03:40:08,239 --> 03:40:12,600
what's what's listed to here. The media, Hollywood, news, music,

3901
03:40:12,840 --> 03:40:16,959
most of the Ivy League, colleges, our politicians, APAC donors,

3902
03:40:17,040 --> 03:40:20,040
think tanks idea. I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention banks.

3903
03:40:20,280 --> 03:40:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about the shekels and the banks.

3904
03:40:23,360 --> 03:40:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm kind of surprised that it doesn't mention banks because

3905
03:40:25,280 --> 03:40:27,319
normally they go for the banks as well, which is

3906
03:40:27,360 --> 03:40:30,479
the dumbest argument because the banks are not owned by

3907
03:40:30,520 --> 03:40:34,120
any of them. Uh So, my kind of question to

3908
03:40:34,239 --> 03:40:36,479
this is why do the Irish control our government?

3909
03:40:36,879 --> 03:40:37,639
Speaker 2: So there you go.

3910
03:40:41,280 --> 03:40:44,280
Speaker 1: Kirol Matthi says, no one wanted JA to call our

3911
03:40:44,360 --> 03:40:47,600
martyrs martyrs of his church or honor them. Comparing them

3912
03:40:47,680 --> 03:40:50,200
with his bolar martyrs, as rich One said, was indeed offensive.

3913
03:40:50,239 --> 03:40:53,319
They were Islam's victims. Also, doubling down on the mainstream

3914
03:40:53,360 --> 03:40:55,200
media did it too was a bad excuse.

3915
03:40:55,639 --> 03:40:58,840
Speaker 3: It wasn't an excuse. It was the reasoning why I

3916
03:40:59,000 --> 03:41:02,239
was skeptical of the event and the source of the event,

3917
03:41:02,920 --> 03:41:06,200
and I didn't say that they were equivalent. That was

3918
03:41:06,319 --> 03:41:09,760
the misunderstanding people thought I was saying that there's no

3919
03:41:09,840 --> 03:41:12,440
difference between dying for Christ if you're a Coptic and

3920
03:41:13,559 --> 03:41:16,079
Nozrilaar or whatever his name was. That's not what I

3921
03:41:16,200 --> 03:41:16,520
was saying.

3922
03:41:18,760 --> 03:41:21,280
Speaker 1: Ietism, Jay, how do you study the books you personally

3923
03:41:21,280 --> 03:41:25,319
pick up for How How often are we ask this question? Continued?

3924
03:41:25,399 --> 03:41:27,719
Thank God, the conscience of the Church, the people of God,

3925
03:41:27,799 --> 03:41:30,440
supported Saint Mark of emphasis efforts to maintain the truth

3926
03:41:30,479 --> 03:41:33,799
and trusted to us. Also, thanks for live feats like this. Jay,

3927
03:41:33,879 --> 03:41:39,559
You're awesome. Completely ignore ap and David, would you, uh know,

3928
03:41:39,639 --> 03:41:41,799
it's too much. It's one thing to criticize an aspect

3929
03:41:41,840 --> 03:41:43,959
of Judaism, but way too many don't do it in

3930
03:41:44,000 --> 03:41:47,040
good faith, and worst, criticize Jews as an ethnic group collectively,

3931
03:41:47,040 --> 03:41:50,159
which is nothing more than anti Hebrew racism. Yeah, it's

3932
03:41:50,680 --> 03:41:53,040
it's what lots of people do. Gladly, nobody here does it.

3933
03:41:54,319 --> 03:41:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's uh, that's my real objective. We've only we've

3934
03:41:57,479 --> 03:41:59,760
only explained this like twenty thousand times. It's like, if

3935
03:41:59,760 --> 03:42:02,120
you want to criticize the Talmut then say here's what

3936
03:42:02,280 --> 03:42:04,079
the Talmut says. And if you're if you're a Jew

3937
03:42:04,120 --> 03:42:07,520
who agrees with that rabbi in the Talmud, then here's

3938
03:42:07,559 --> 03:42:10,159
why it's messed up. Or if you wanted to say, hey,

3939
03:42:11,000 --> 03:42:15,840
here's a here's a group that spits in the direction

3940
03:42:15,920 --> 03:42:18,799
of Christians in Israel, like condemn that. But it's there's

3941
03:42:18,840 --> 03:42:22,639
just this overwhelming tendency with when it comes to Jews

3942
03:42:22,719 --> 03:42:26,360
that you see, that's what Jews do, and uh, or

3943
03:42:26,440 --> 03:42:31,719
this is what Jews believe and yeah, it's just it's

3944
03:42:31,799 --> 03:42:34,520
just not true. There's like point to the point to

3945
03:42:34,600 --> 03:42:37,200
the actual people who believe in the thing or do

3946
03:42:37,360 --> 03:42:40,760
the thing, and then criticize that. Uh. Anyway, I'm pointing

3947
03:42:40,760 --> 03:42:42,479
out people. We don't like it when people do. We

3948
03:42:42,559 --> 03:42:43,920
don't like it when people do it to us, Like

3949
03:42:44,000 --> 03:42:46,079
look at this guy, you see that's what Christians do.

3950
03:42:47,719 --> 03:42:50,319
Speaker 1: Damn this still, this dream is still going. What did

3951
03:42:50,360 --> 03:42:52,440
you think We're going to continue for another five hours

3952
03:42:53,159 --> 03:42:55,239
or so? I did a lot come down during Mohammed's

3953
03:42:55,319 --> 03:42:57,360
visit with big sexual group of men at night in

3954
03:42:57,399 --> 03:42:59,440
the desert. That's the most hilarious adith I've ever heard.

3955
03:42:59,520 --> 03:43:00,479
Speaker 2: He did right there.

3956
03:43:00,680 --> 03:43:01,280
Speaker 1: He was watching.

3957
03:43:02,239 --> 03:43:04,920
Speaker 2: No, it was it was Ibn Masud who was watching

3958
03:43:05,000 --> 03:43:07,360
behind the diddy line. Do you even know what we're

3959
03:43:07,360 --> 03:43:10,920
talking about? Jay? This is really weird.

3960
03:43:11,239 --> 03:43:13,719
Speaker 3: I mean, but I don't know about that other thing.

3961
03:43:14,399 --> 03:43:17,600
Speaker 2: I'm kind of semi joking. There's this weird there's this

3962
03:43:17,719 --> 03:43:21,719
weird there's this weird passage in the hadith about Muhammad

3963
03:43:21,719 --> 03:43:24,879
and he brings his companion Abdullah Ibn Masoud out into

3964
03:43:24,920 --> 03:43:27,879
the desert and says, stand behind this line. If you

3965
03:43:27,959 --> 03:43:31,040
cross this line, you are you are gone, buddy. It's

3966
03:43:31,040 --> 03:43:34,360
Abdullah Ud stands behind the line. And then it says

3967
03:43:35,040 --> 03:43:38,000
and all these guys who looked like they were from

3968
03:43:38,639 --> 03:43:40,760
the al Zut, which was like the what is now

3969
03:43:41,040 --> 03:43:44,360
the Pakistan India region, that they're like they're They're described

3970
03:43:44,399 --> 03:43:49,360
as dark skin and uh strong, with a huge sexual

3971
03:43:49,440 --> 03:43:54,520
appetites and large penises and so on. But it says

3972
03:43:54,600 --> 03:43:57,639
that that a group of the al Zut rode him

3973
03:43:57,680 --> 03:44:00,959
all night long until he came back in pain and

3974
03:44:01,040 --> 03:44:04,159
fell asleep on Abdullah's lap and so on. So anyway,

3975
03:44:04,159 --> 03:44:07,920
there's a weird source. Anyway we've got of been I

3976
03:44:08,040 --> 03:44:10,879
say semi joking because it's it's actually it's there, and

3977
03:44:10,959 --> 03:44:14,000
it sounds really weird and creepy, but we're semi joking

3978
03:44:14,079 --> 03:44:17,440
when it was When we go with the most obvious interpretations,

3979
03:44:17,719 --> 03:44:20,399
it's like Mohammed got it sounds like you got gang

3980
03:44:20,479 --> 03:44:23,719
banged by a budget. Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

3981
03:44:23,920 --> 03:44:26,760
And so anyway or a.

3982
03:44:26,840 --> 03:44:29,360
Speaker 1: Mohammed party, uh is Orthodo party?

3983
03:44:29,399 --> 03:44:29,559
Speaker 2: Wrong.

3984
03:44:30,959 --> 03:44:35,120
Speaker 1: Well, even if there is a possibility that David might

3985
03:44:35,200 --> 03:44:37,360
give an unacceptable answer, it is not allowed here. So

3986
03:44:37,479 --> 03:44:41,559
I'm just skip this. I do agree ap and David

3987
03:44:41,559 --> 03:44:44,680
would with Hamas being banned for Palestinian Christians. Good. I'm

3988
03:44:44,719 --> 03:44:48,000
glad we have that established and any reasonable person needs

3989
03:44:48,040 --> 03:44:50,360
to agree with that. But thank you, thank you, Brandon David.

3990
03:44:50,399 --> 03:44:51,600
What do you think about Orthodoxy?

3991
03:44:52,520 --> 03:44:52,600
Speaker 3: Uh?

3992
03:44:52,639 --> 03:44:54,639
Speaker 2: I don't know, never studied it, but it seems weird.

3993
03:44:55,879 --> 03:44:56,920
Speaker 3: It is totally base.

3994
03:44:58,280 --> 03:44:58,399
Speaker 2: Uh.

3995
03:44:59,040 --> 03:45:02,559
Speaker 1: One shot Ace seventeen. I'll join in retaking Constantinople. Good

3996
03:45:02,680 --> 03:45:04,719
knows too much? What does jd think of the Orthodox

3997
03:45:04,760 --> 03:45:07,879
priest at Lahna doing to Yasir Arafat what moment did

3998
03:45:07,920 --> 03:45:10,639
to the black I think that I talked with Jay

3999
03:45:10,719 --> 03:45:16,079
Dyer about that. Dude, that bishop before that was the

4000
03:45:16,200 --> 03:45:20,159
one guy who. I guess this was one of the

4001
03:45:20,200 --> 03:45:22,440
big This is one of the big difficulties I still

4002
03:45:22,440 --> 03:45:24,239
don't know how to handle if it ever comes up

4003
03:45:24,639 --> 03:45:29,920
that one bishop and under the Jerusalem PATRIARCHID who called

4004
03:45:30,600 --> 03:45:35,040
Hassan Australia a martyr, and who also walked around with

4005
03:45:35,200 --> 03:45:39,719
a sign saying my father and my mother be sacrificed

4006
03:45:39,760 --> 03:45:42,719
to you or messenger of a lah referring to Muhammad,

4007
03:45:43,399 --> 03:45:47,520
and it's kind of wild that he, an Orthodox bishop,

4008
03:45:47,559 --> 03:45:49,280
would do that kind of stuff.

4009
03:45:50,319 --> 03:45:55,239
Speaker 3: Well again, I mean, there have been Orthodox bishops and

4010
03:45:55,280 --> 03:45:59,360
priests who have adopted freemasonry and who have adopted perennialist

4011
03:45:59,360 --> 03:46:03,559
type views. So it's entirely possible that you could have

4012
03:46:03,680 --> 03:46:07,280
somebody who believes that Islam and Christianity do worship the

4013
03:46:07,319 --> 03:46:09,360
same gun. In fact, I think even the MP has

4014
03:46:09,600 --> 03:46:11,520
said that in the past, and I would totally disagree

4015
03:46:11,559 --> 03:46:13,760
with that. I mean, it's not the same as like

4016
03:46:14,879 --> 03:46:17,559
the papacy, because you know, the papacy and Vatican two

4017
03:46:17,680 --> 03:46:19,920
teach something you you don't get the liberty of saying

4018
03:46:20,319 --> 03:46:25,479
I disagree. You know, Orthodoxy is decentralized, and so there's

4019
03:46:25,479 --> 03:46:27,840
plenty of things that bishops or MPs can do that

4020
03:46:27,920 --> 03:46:32,360
are that are fallible and wrong. So so anybody would

4021
03:46:32,399 --> 03:46:36,920
call Mohammed, you know, God's messenger as a Christian, it

4022
03:46:37,079 --> 03:46:40,360
just seems completely You're you're either totally ignorant or you're

4023
03:46:40,399 --> 03:46:41,840
a Freemason.

4024
03:46:41,440 --> 03:46:45,360
Speaker 1: Or I don't know, isn't Isn't that just direct heresy?

4025
03:46:45,920 --> 03:46:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

4026
03:46:49,600 --> 03:46:54,319
Speaker 1: Uh, how about you guys touch on Christian Zionism. So

4027
03:46:54,399 --> 03:46:56,079
we talked about this before, but I'm not sure why

4028
03:46:56,079 --> 03:46:58,600
anyone would touch on this here considering that, Uh, I'm

4029
03:46:58,600 --> 03:47:02,399
not a single person on this panel here is a

4030
03:47:02,520 --> 03:47:07,079
Christian Zionist. I have been very open about my thoughts

4031
03:47:07,120 --> 03:47:07,920
in Christian Zionism.

4032
03:47:08,040 --> 03:47:11,760
Speaker 3: David has been many streams on this recently, so people

4033
03:47:11,799 --> 03:47:13,520
can go check that from my views.

4034
03:47:13,760 --> 03:47:16,239
Speaker 1: So I'm not a Christian Zionist. Christian Zionism is a

4035
03:47:16,360 --> 03:47:20,719
very specific is a very specific theological viewpoint on Zionism,

4036
03:47:21,520 --> 03:47:27,799
and I personally don't agree with it. David, as far

4037
03:47:27,840 --> 03:47:30,239
as I understand your stance, is also that you don't

4038
03:47:30,440 --> 03:47:36,440
that you don't have a Christian Zionist theological perspective. Yeah,

4039
03:47:36,680 --> 03:47:40,200
all the position on Zionism is totally independent from theology.

4040
03:47:40,680 --> 03:47:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be a Christian who is a Zionist

4041
03:47:43,360 --> 03:47:47,159
in a sense, but an adherent of Christian Zionism. I've

4042
03:47:47,239 --> 03:47:50,920
never studied the position the passages that have been brought

4043
03:47:51,000 --> 03:47:53,959
up to me to support it. I can always look

4044
03:47:53,959 --> 03:47:57,000
at that and say, well, I can think of multiple

4045
03:47:57,040 --> 03:47:59,479
other interpretations of that passage other than the one you're given.

4046
03:47:59,520 --> 03:48:01,799
But it's not something I would comment on because I

4047
03:48:01,799 --> 03:48:03,079
never really, never really studied it.

4048
03:48:05,920 --> 03:48:11,200
Speaker 1: Noise one state solution Israel for Jewish Christians, andsane Muslims.

4049
03:48:11,440 --> 03:48:15,200
Good luck with that, Holy Joe. David Dawood rebuked you

4050
03:48:15,319 --> 03:48:18,079
for reading my Rushdie joke, since he hates everything Rushdi,

4051
03:48:18,280 --> 03:48:22,799
just like how Ape hates everything Turkish, Turk sock eric vigilant.

4052
03:48:22,959 --> 03:48:25,440
I also apologize to ap for calling him a runner

4053
03:48:25,520 --> 03:48:27,120
and a track star because he was scared of the

4054
03:48:27,200 --> 03:48:31,239
jad diarity. But I'm still scared of the Jediary Byzantine warrior.

4055
03:48:31,239 --> 03:48:33,680
I approve of APCV on the liberation of Constantinople.

4056
03:48:33,840 --> 03:48:34,120
Speaker 2: Thank you.

4057
03:48:35,159 --> 03:48:37,239
Speaker 1: Searching deeper, I will become like a Roman Catholic or

4058
03:48:37,280 --> 03:48:40,040
Eastern Orthodox. Neither ever, I will never become a Roman

4059
03:48:40,079 --> 03:48:45,440
Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. Neither ever focuses on Jesus millions

4060
03:48:45,479 --> 03:48:47,520
of other things. This is one of those very very

4061
03:48:47,600 --> 03:48:49,879
weird things that I don't really understand that people have,

4062
03:48:50,239 --> 03:48:55,719
or misconceptions that people have about Catholicism or Orthodoxy. I mean,

4063
03:48:56,959 --> 03:48:59,719
when I go to a Divine Liturgy, it's literally all

4064
03:48:59,719 --> 03:49:03,799
about Jesus. Literally the whole thing is about Jesus. So

4065
03:49:06,040 --> 03:49:10,639
it's a very very strange thing to say. Atism Jaye,

4066
03:49:10,639 --> 03:49:12,520
how do you study the books? How many times are

4067
03:49:12,559 --> 03:49:15,719
you going to ask the same thing? Jerry Art, Hello, E, Pete,

4068
03:49:15,760 --> 03:49:18,479
David jay learning more about the objective, but hey, thank

4069
03:49:18,520 --> 03:49:20,920
you for the super chats. How learning more about the

4070
03:49:20,920 --> 03:49:22,600
objective meaning off the Bible and decided to read the

4071
03:49:22,639 --> 03:49:25,000
Early Church father study Hittory and the Cultures. How best

4072
03:49:25,040 --> 03:49:26,959
can I do this book? Saints, et cetera.

4073
03:49:29,680 --> 03:49:31,680
Speaker 3: If I was first reading the Church Fathers, I would

4074
03:49:31,879 --> 03:49:36,760
read the Apostolic Fathers. I'd read Ignacious Clement. Cyril Richardson

4075
03:49:36,799 --> 03:49:39,280
has a little book that kind of summarizes that stuff.

4076
03:49:40,639 --> 03:49:43,920
I would read on the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius. I

4077
03:49:43,959 --> 03:49:48,600
would read five Theological Orations of Saint Gregor Naciana Zeus

4078
03:49:48,680 --> 03:49:50,959
Basils on the Holy Spirit, and then I would read

4079
03:49:51,479 --> 03:49:54,360
something like just get an Orthodox study Bible something like that.

4080
03:49:55,280 --> 03:49:59,280
Speaker 1: M hm, noice, David, what do you think? One word answer?

4081
03:50:03,000 --> 03:50:03,239
Speaker 2: Thanks?

4082
03:50:05,440 --> 03:50:09,799
Speaker 1: Wiscon says, it's literally all Orthodox speaks about exactly. It's

4083
03:50:10,639 --> 03:50:14,000
a really really weird thing to say. Jerry Art No,

4084
03:50:14,440 --> 03:50:19,120
he h Brossey, thisn' ap has a better Peterson impression

4085
03:50:19,159 --> 03:50:21,959
than Jim Bob. I know, I challenged Jimbob to uh

4086
03:50:22,280 --> 03:50:23,159
to a to a mobile?

4087
03:50:24,000 --> 03:50:25,920
Speaker 3: Are pretty good. You surprised me with that, so.

4088
03:50:27,399 --> 03:50:30,040
Speaker 1: I heard. I heard Jim Bob's Jordan Peterson impression, and

4089
03:50:30,120 --> 03:50:30,920
I wasn't impressed.

4090
03:50:31,159 --> 03:50:33,879
Speaker 3: So really, you think both of you guys are pretty good.

4091
03:50:35,000 --> 03:50:38,799
I mean, I'm more impressed with myself, most humble.

4092
03:50:42,200 --> 03:50:43,959
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's still here. He was earlier here.

4093
03:50:44,319 --> 03:50:51,399
I know he recently started attacking me, and it came

4094
03:50:51,479 --> 03:50:53,959
at a very very good time because I saw that

4095
03:50:54,040 --> 03:50:56,879
he made us, that he talked about me in a stream,

4096
03:50:58,559 --> 03:51:03,000
and I had this this, this this urge to react

4097
03:51:03,079 --> 03:51:07,440
and go through it. And then I thought to myself, Okay,

4098
03:51:07,600 --> 03:51:08,440
what why.

4099
03:51:11,600 --> 03:51:11,840
Speaker 2: Point.

4100
03:51:12,360 --> 03:51:14,559
Speaker 3: I don't know what he said about you, but usually

4101
03:51:14,600 --> 03:51:16,200
he makes fun of everybody in his dreams, so he

4102
03:51:16,280 --> 03:51:19,120
may have just been I don't know. He makes fun

4103
03:51:19,120 --> 03:51:19,840
of me on his dreams.

4104
03:51:19,879 --> 03:51:24,600
Speaker 1: So that's that's nice. But yeah, yeah, no reason to

4105
03:51:24,680 --> 03:51:30,200
find H. David pleasance totally fake name. W. David Pleasant

4106
03:51:30,239 --> 03:51:33,000
says Israel is a new crusader state. I support safe

4107
03:51:33,040 --> 03:51:35,200
access to the Holy Site. So I support Israel. Not

4108
03:51:35,280 --> 03:51:39,719
an end time imperative, just practical wisdom, a new crusader state.

4109
03:51:39,799 --> 03:51:43,559
That's an interesting statement here. The funny thing about Israel

4110
03:51:43,680 --> 03:51:49,159
is that it was so the Theodore Hertzel did explicitly

4111
03:51:49,639 --> 03:51:54,159
basically instruct the Zionist movement to make it a goal

4112
03:51:54,319 --> 03:51:59,799
to safeguard Christian sites in the in the land. That

4113
03:52:00,120 --> 03:52:05,159
is actually a core idea in the zion in the

4114
03:52:05,280 --> 03:52:09,120
in the in the Jewish state leaflet missed again. You

4115
03:52:09,159 --> 03:52:11,440
guys should get together more often. Your depth of knowledge

4116
03:52:11,440 --> 03:52:14,000
and humor are great despite disagreements. Anyway, I love you guys,

4117
03:52:14,239 --> 03:52:15,879
But right now we are just in a very peaceful

4118
03:52:15,920 --> 03:52:17,719
more The next time we get together we will start fighting.

4119
03:52:17,799 --> 03:52:22,239
So uh, squad rag. Anyone who thinks the modern nation

4120
03:52:22,360 --> 03:52:24,319
state of Israel is synonymous with the Israel mentioned in

4121
03:52:24,360 --> 03:52:27,079
scripture is very misinformed. Well, this is the funny thing

4122
03:52:27,280 --> 03:52:29,399
when sometimes when we talk about Israel, there are people

4123
03:52:29,440 --> 03:52:31,479
that come and say, no, this is not the Israel

4124
03:52:31,559 --> 03:52:32,040
or the Bible.

4125
03:52:32,200 --> 03:52:34,000
Speaker 2: I know it's not the Israel who's saying that. Though

4126
03:52:34,360 --> 03:52:35,159
I know it's not.

4127
03:52:36,520 --> 03:52:41,360
Speaker 1: That's not the point the one state solution, Hi, risco

4128
03:52:42,360 --> 03:52:45,920
da Wood, being that your critic Islam for having a

4129
03:52:45,959 --> 03:52:49,280
deterministic God. Do you point out to your Calvinist friends

4130
03:52:49,319 --> 03:52:51,479
that they commit the same error. Yeah, David was wrong.

4131
03:52:52,440 --> 03:52:55,799
Speaker 2: One I didn't even the criticism wasn't even determinist that God.

4132
03:52:55,879 --> 03:53:00,319
It was that the Quran says that those who lead

4133
03:53:00,520 --> 03:53:06,079
others astray deserve the punishment of those they lead astray,

4134
03:53:06,200 --> 03:53:07,719
And I point out, but the Crown also says that

4135
03:53:07,799 --> 03:53:10,559
a law allows the one who leads everyone astray, therefore

4136
03:53:10,680 --> 03:53:14,440
pointing out a problem. Uh. With that said, it is

4137
03:53:14,639 --> 03:53:17,000
it is an issue if you're saying God determines all

4138
03:53:17,559 --> 03:53:19,159
every all of our actions and all of our sins.

4139
03:53:19,159 --> 03:53:21,200
I do think that's an issue for Calvinism. But even

4140
03:53:21,239 --> 03:53:23,239
then us, I don't know if you guys have noticed,

4141
03:53:23,239 --> 03:53:27,120
I don't don't. I don't defend a lot of positions

4142
03:53:27,120 --> 03:53:28,879
because it's always in my head. I might be wrong.

4143
03:53:29,040 --> 03:53:30,639
I might be wrong about this. There may be some

4144
03:53:30,799 --> 03:53:33,639
brilliant defense of this that I'm not aware of, and

4145
03:53:34,479 --> 03:53:39,520
I kind of I can say, hey, I don't believe that.

4146
03:53:39,840 --> 03:53:42,360
I don't believe that, but still kind of withhold any

4147
03:53:42,399 --> 03:53:45,799
sort of final waiting for you guys to come up

4148
03:53:45,840 --> 03:53:47,959
with some brilliant defense of the position or something like that.

4149
03:53:49,760 --> 03:53:52,520
Speaker 1: Good, good, good. Most presidents were irish, power to us

4150
03:53:52,639 --> 03:53:53,120
in Charlat.

4151
03:53:53,280 --> 03:53:53,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

4152
03:53:53,600 --> 03:53:57,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, even even Barack Obama was blirish.

4153
03:53:58,239 --> 03:54:00,440
Speaker 2: H JDA.

4154
03:54:00,639 --> 03:54:03,440
Speaker 1: What makes Orthodox Christianity stand out as a more complete

4155
03:54:03,520 --> 03:54:05,799
or faithful expression of the Early Church compared to other

4156
03:54:05,879 --> 03:54:11,239
Christian traditions? Oxy has piqued my interest lately, Wingling gain Jay,

4157
03:54:11,280 --> 03:54:12,479
what would be your response to this.

4158
03:54:13,760 --> 03:54:16,760
Speaker 3: Most of the practices that you see in the Early

4159
03:54:16,920 --> 03:54:19,639
Church in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth century are

4160
03:54:19,840 --> 03:54:24,639
pretty much still normal practices of Orthodox today. So the

4161
03:54:24,719 --> 03:54:29,879
way the calendar is celebrated, the way the liturgy celebrated, fasting,

4162
03:54:30,000 --> 03:54:32,799
et cetera, all of those practices that are that are there,

4163
03:54:33,319 --> 03:54:37,319
even the prayer and the devotions are are still pretty

4164
03:54:37,399 --> 03:54:41,840
normal and normative. So those are key key things. And

4165
03:54:41,920 --> 03:54:45,639
also would argue that even something like church law, which

4166
03:54:45,680 --> 03:54:48,159
is kind of boring, but the way the Orthodox Church

4167
03:54:49,200 --> 03:54:52,840
keeps and treats church law is the same way that

4168
03:54:53,000 --> 03:54:56,600
the church fathers of the Ecumenical councils kept the church law,

4169
03:54:58,040 --> 03:55:00,719
and Rome is Rome is different. Rome has a different

4170
03:55:00,799 --> 03:55:03,680
canon law. They don't really care about the Apostolic canons

4171
03:55:03,719 --> 03:55:07,200
and things of the Worthodox church does care about nice noice.

4172
03:55:08,440 --> 03:55:09,360
Speaker 1: Jaco live after.

4173
03:55:09,719 --> 03:55:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, should be a little too tired. I'm starting to

4174
03:55:13,639 --> 03:55:14,520
wear down, so.

4175
03:55:16,600 --> 03:55:20,000
Speaker 2: You should make maybe tomorrow's running.

4176
03:55:20,799 --> 03:55:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm scared you should make a live to me after

4177
03:55:22,959 --> 03:55:23,959
this attack on.

4178
03:55:25,840 --> 03:55:26,760
Speaker 3: Everything I said.

4179
03:55:32,719 --> 03:55:35,040
Speaker 1: Bruce George, the anti Grant's religion in Temple, I already

4180
03:55:35,120 --> 03:55:37,360
jose them. They're working in Europe nation powerful.

4181
03:55:37,479 --> 03:55:38,600
Speaker 2: I think you're talking about Islam.

4182
03:55:38,959 --> 03:55:41,399
Speaker 1: Islam it is. When will you take your new Christian

4183
03:55:41,440 --> 03:55:41,879
name Martin?

4184
03:55:45,319 --> 03:55:45,719
Speaker 2: And why?

4185
03:55:46,559 --> 03:55:46,879
Speaker 3: And why?

4186
03:55:47,040 --> 03:55:50,360
Speaker 1: See how much of an influence that David would have

4187
03:55:50,440 --> 03:55:57,680
on your conversion? A HI JD. So yes, I'm going

4188
03:55:57,719 --> 03:56:01,719
to take the church name Martin H. But now that

4189
03:56:01,760 --> 03:56:04,520
I'm hearing this, I also think I think I also

4190
03:56:04,520 --> 03:56:06,600
should take your koop as an addition to it. But

4191
03:56:08,639 --> 03:56:13,000
David did have an influence in many different ways. But

4192
03:56:13,120 --> 03:56:15,280
I don't want to talk about it any further right now,

4193
03:56:15,319 --> 03:56:18,360
because he's here, and that's kind of okay. Squad Drug,

4194
03:56:18,399 --> 03:56:20,959
the Desionists and Chid believe we should financially support Israel.

4195
03:56:21,000 --> 03:56:22,639
If so, it seems you guys are naive when it

4196
03:56:22,680 --> 03:56:26,239
comes to modern tel Mudic Judaism. They believe some disgraceful

4197
03:56:26,319 --> 03:56:30,520
things support Christ. Well, here's the thing we said. David

4198
03:56:30,559 --> 03:56:32,000
said it before, I said it before. But if you

4199
03:56:32,040 --> 03:56:34,120
walk down the street and ask the average je about

4200
03:56:34,479 --> 03:56:36,000
what the Talmud says, they will have no idea what

4201
03:56:36,040 --> 03:56:40,079
the hell you're talking about, because you has never heard

4202
03:56:40,120 --> 03:56:42,479
a single not a single thing, but a few few

4203
03:56:42,520 --> 03:56:45,319
phrases from the from the Tumult. And then if you

4204
03:56:45,440 --> 03:56:47,440
ask rabbis about the Tumult, they will give you different

4205
03:56:47,479 --> 03:56:50,000
interpretations of what it actually says when it talks about

4206
03:56:50,600 --> 03:56:53,559
certain figures, including when it talks about Jesus, for example.

4207
03:56:54,000 --> 03:56:56,520
And then among all the people that you go down

4208
03:56:56,760 --> 03:56:59,440
the road and the list, you will find some that

4209
03:56:59,600 --> 03:57:04,559
actually agreed that the Talmut says something bad about about Jesus,

4210
03:57:04,639 --> 03:57:08,719
about Christ. And then you will when you have found

4211
03:57:08,840 --> 03:57:13,280
those people, you will have among those disagreements about to

4212
03:57:13,440 --> 03:57:18,360
what degree it is actually valid or descriptive or accurate

4213
03:57:18,440 --> 03:57:19,520
what it then says.

4214
03:57:19,399 --> 03:57:22,159
Speaker 2: Versus just versus just an insult or something like that.

4215
03:57:22,440 --> 03:57:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so.

4216
03:57:25,600 --> 03:57:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I'll go ahead and point out, now,

4217
03:57:29,879 --> 03:57:34,239
I've never encountered anyone who interprets the Talmud the way

4218
03:57:34,600 --> 03:57:38,000
like a groper meme wants you to interpret it like that.

4219
03:57:38,120 --> 03:57:41,840
You see, this is what they believe, and it's as

4220
03:57:42,040 --> 03:57:44,280
as you're putting it and and implying that they believe.

4221
03:57:44,719 --> 03:57:47,200
I've never I've never encountered or heard of anyone who

4222
03:57:47,239 --> 03:57:48,440
interprets that the way you guys say.

4223
03:57:50,680 --> 03:57:55,799
Speaker 3: I would say, there's a Peter Schaefer who has done

4224
03:57:55,879 --> 03:57:59,879
some interesting books that are useful for combating Islam because

4225
03:58:00,079 --> 03:58:06,680
admits that early Judaism was not monolithically unitarian. So it's

4226
03:58:06,760 --> 03:58:08,440
very useful, kind of in the way that the Two

4227
03:58:08,520 --> 03:58:11,799
Powers book and well Yarn's books are useful. He has

4228
03:58:11,840 --> 03:58:15,520
a book that's from an academic perspective called Jesus and

4229
03:58:15,520 --> 03:58:18,719
the Talmud put up by Princeton. So here's a Jewish

4230
03:58:18,799 --> 03:58:22,680
guy talking about what the Talmudic tradition is from an

4231
03:58:22,680 --> 03:58:25,079
academic perspective. So I think that's useful.

4232
03:58:25,879 --> 03:58:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so I always I mean, so you have

4233
03:58:30,840 --> 03:58:32,600
you have the you have the group that like does

4234
03:58:32,639 --> 03:58:34,760
spit in the direction of Christians as they're walking by

4235
03:58:34,799 --> 03:58:41,959
and so on in the general direction. Yeah, tons of

4236
03:58:42,000 --> 03:58:43,959
people in Israel do not like those guys. That's what

4237
03:58:44,159 --> 03:58:46,639
That's what I mean. It's it's it's we just talked

4238
03:58:46,639 --> 03:58:48,680
about this. How you'll take something that some people do

4239
03:58:48,760 --> 03:58:52,000
and then they're say, therefore the nation. I mean, just

4240
03:58:52,280 --> 03:58:56,680
like understatement, you just think if someone does that in

4241
03:58:56,760 --> 03:58:59,760
every other direction. Look at what I mean, Look how

4242
03:58:59,799 --> 03:59:01,600
many creepy people you have in the United States and

4243
03:59:01,680 --> 03:59:03,680
Canada and the UK and so on you could point to,

4244
03:59:03,840 --> 03:59:08,200
You could point to messed up people who believe certain

4245
03:59:08,280 --> 03:59:13,959
things in in pretty much anywhere. And then to define

4246
03:59:14,000 --> 03:59:16,440
the whole, to define the whole by you know this

4247
03:59:16,879 --> 03:59:19,079
this part, you know this particular group in there so,

4248
03:59:19,440 --> 03:59:21,840
and then say, hey, the whole is the problem. That's

4249
03:59:21,959 --> 03:59:23,280
just I don't know, that's terrible reasoning.

4250
03:59:24,200 --> 03:59:28,159
Speaker 1: It's a logicalvality aracoda. I think in my position, the

4251
03:59:28,280 --> 03:59:30,760
one about thag used to be atheists and J used

4252
03:59:30,799 --> 03:59:33,000
to it's against atheists. What is your opinion on the argument?

4253
03:59:33,000 --> 03:59:35,200
I didn't miss it. Cut any questions for J about it.

4254
03:59:35,280 --> 03:59:38,079
I didn't miss it. But I've just in the past,

4255
03:59:38,319 --> 03:59:40,360
as I also expressed in the past, very very much,

4256
03:59:40,479 --> 03:59:44,600
despite having engaged with the arguments for God's existence or

4257
03:59:44,760 --> 03:59:47,760
against God's existence, with classical theism and all that, it

4258
03:59:47,879 --> 03:59:50,879
has never been very particularly interesting to me, and not

4259
03:59:51,000 --> 03:59:55,159
even doesn't even play a role in my eventual coming

4260
03:59:55,200 --> 04:00:01,799
to faith. So I would I would rather rather deal with,

4261
04:00:02,040 --> 04:00:07,280
for example, the Gospel and its relevance to me and

4262
04:00:07,399 --> 04:00:09,879
my life and to the and to the truth, then

4263
04:00:10,000 --> 04:00:14,440
with arguments for God's existence or against and in my

4264
04:00:14,600 --> 04:00:17,079
personal view, I also think, and I know that this

4265
04:00:17,200 --> 04:00:19,639
is that both David and j will start fuming now.

4266
04:00:20,159 --> 04:00:23,600
I also think that, uh, that arguments for or against

4267
04:00:23,639 --> 04:00:27,000
God's existence are largely ineffective in terms of changing changing

4268
04:00:27,079 --> 04:00:31,520
people's minds. And despite that, despite both change David disagreeing

4269
04:00:31,559 --> 04:00:33,879
with me on this, uh, everyone knows that I'm right.

4270
04:00:34,040 --> 04:00:40,159
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say, I would say people are different,

4271
04:00:40,760 --> 04:00:43,840
different build different people, people are just people are just

4272
04:00:43,959 --> 04:00:48,239
wired differently, and different things have a different things impact

4273
04:00:48,319 --> 04:00:52,440
people differently normally. Normally, when I'm using arguments for the

4274
04:00:52,520 --> 04:00:56,280
existence of God, I'm trying to keep Theism and Christianity

4275
04:00:56,399 --> 04:00:59,840
as what William James would call a live hypothesis, meaning

4276
04:01:00,040 --> 04:01:01,840
something you're not just rejecting because you think it's it's

4277
04:01:01,879 --> 04:01:04,239
beyond ridiculous and something like that. It's something you could

4278
04:01:04,239 --> 04:01:09,760
take seriously, and then therefore you know it's you're you're

4279
04:01:09,799 --> 04:01:11,360
in a position where you can actually where you can

4280
04:01:11,399 --> 04:01:13,600
actually believe in it. If if, if you take a look.

4281
04:01:13,639 --> 04:01:15,159
So anyway, I'm trying to keep christian I'm trying to

4282
04:01:15,159 --> 04:01:17,760
make sure that Christianity remains apologetics. I'm trying to make

4283
04:01:17,959 --> 04:01:22,200
I'm trying to make Christianity a live hypothesis for people,

4284
04:01:22,239 --> 04:01:25,440
something to takes seriously, as opposed to something like because

4285
04:01:25,479 --> 04:01:28,239
things change over time. Like in the first century Roman

4286
04:01:28,319 --> 04:01:33,079
paganism was a live option for for people something to once.

4287
04:01:33,120 --> 04:01:35,399
Speaker 1: Ap is baptizing and it takes content. Will Jay and

4288
04:01:35,440 --> 04:01:39,360
Mike Winger over here, we'll ride with you a don yes, uh,

4289
04:01:39,600 --> 04:01:44,239
Father Deacon Eusinus, what's up? APJ and David many blessing blessings, guys.

4290
04:01:44,280 --> 04:01:46,079
AP's amazing to see your faith in the church. Girl.

4291
04:01:46,159 --> 04:01:47,280
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

4292
04:01:47,520 --> 04:01:50,520
Speaker 3: Well. One thing I'd said about your apologetics comment, Uh,

4293
04:01:51,280 --> 04:01:53,399
if you think if you take somebody like Pago, who

4294
04:01:53,799 --> 04:01:57,120
you know is talking to the Peterson audience quite a

4295
04:01:57,159 --> 04:02:01,280
bit and is a very talented I cannographer. A lot

4296
04:02:01,319 --> 04:02:04,639
of people get interested in orthodoxy through esthetics, right, so

4297
04:02:04,760 --> 04:02:08,600
we wouldn't say that, well, either esthetics is good or

4298
04:02:08,639 --> 04:02:10,799
it's bad, or you should be or it shouldn't be,

4299
04:02:11,040 --> 04:02:13,479
or it's everything where it's nothing like it can be

4300
04:02:13,600 --> 04:02:18,639
a doorway and you know you have. My priest got

4301
04:02:18,719 --> 04:02:23,200
me an icon of Justin Martyr and his title is

4302
04:02:23,360 --> 04:02:25,799
just In the Philosopher because he spoke to and tried

4303
04:02:25,840 --> 04:02:29,399
to convert you know, philosophers to Christ. So christ as

4304
04:02:29,440 --> 04:02:31,159
we become all things to all men. I think that

4305
04:02:31,239 --> 04:02:34,840
there's a place for people that are philosophically inclined. I've

4306
04:02:34,879 --> 04:02:36,479
met a lot of people over the years who have

4307
04:02:36,680 --> 04:02:40,280
found the you know, the atheist debates that we've done convincing,

4308
04:02:40,799 --> 04:02:44,120
but not everybody does. Not everybody cares about philosophy. So

4309
04:02:44,159 --> 04:02:47,040
I think there's like like David, so there's different people.

4310
04:02:47,840 --> 04:02:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And even what you're pointing out right there that

4311
04:02:51,159 --> 04:02:54,079
you know different people, you know, different things can be

4312
04:02:54,159 --> 04:02:56,879
persuasive or have an impact on different people. Like even

4313
04:02:56,959 --> 04:02:58,760
in the realm of arguments for the existence of God,

4314
04:02:58,799 --> 04:03:00,959
you got people like, hey, I really like the design argument,

4315
04:03:01,040 --> 04:03:04,680
the cosmological argument, the ontological argument, and tag and so on.

4316
04:03:04,760 --> 04:03:07,159
That's just that's just weird, weird nonsense. But then you'll

4317
04:03:07,200 --> 04:03:10,200
have people, You'll have philosophers who like love the ontological argument.

4318
04:03:10,239 --> 04:03:12,879
They think everything else is uh all the scientific arguments

4319
04:03:12,920 --> 04:03:14,719
are are stupid and so on. You talk to a

4320
04:03:15,360 --> 04:03:18,239
I just remember talking to a professor in biology and

4321
04:03:18,280 --> 04:03:20,719
it's like, hey, what what would you think non believer?

4322
04:03:20,760 --> 04:03:22,399
I soa, what would you think would be the best

4323
04:03:22,559 --> 04:03:27,079
case for for belief in a designer out DNA? But

4324
04:03:27,200 --> 04:03:30,799
it's so anyway, Yeah, different people are persuaded by different things.

4325
04:03:31,399 --> 04:03:32,920
Speaker 1: You know. The funny thing is that I often say

4326
04:03:32,959 --> 04:03:35,360
that that these things are largely and effective, but I

4327
04:03:35,440 --> 04:03:40,000
can't deny that I have been also greatly impressed at

4328
04:03:40,079 --> 04:03:44,479
the point with the with the teleological argument, for example,

4329
04:03:44,639 --> 04:03:48,319
which kind of left me a little bit without answers

4330
04:03:48,319 --> 04:03:51,840
and all that. So, yeah, Joseph really want to hear

4331
04:03:51,920 --> 04:03:55,760
David W's thoughts on orthodoxy. Who's David W.

4332
04:03:57,840 --> 04:04:00,559
Speaker 2: It would be kind of h it would be kind

4333
04:04:00,600 --> 04:04:03,600
of like what I just said about Calvinism, where I

4334
04:04:03,719 --> 04:04:06,879
don't I don't believe I don't believe what you're saying,

4335
04:04:07,399 --> 04:04:09,520
but I'm not. I'm kind of not ruling it out

4336
04:04:09,680 --> 04:04:12,760
until you know. So anyway, So, as a matter of fact,

4337
04:04:12,799 --> 04:04:15,639
AP and I have discussed all this, like like intercession

4338
04:04:15,680 --> 04:04:18,000
of saints and stuff like that. I'm not convinced that

4339
04:04:18,120 --> 04:04:22,040
that is actually happening or something like that. But I can't.

4340
04:04:22,159 --> 04:04:24,280
I can't rule it out because I get the idea.

4341
04:04:24,399 --> 04:04:25,920
It's like I can ask I can ask Jay to

4342
04:04:25,959 --> 04:04:28,920
pray for me right now. So if there's actually a

4343
04:04:28,959 --> 04:04:32,200
way to get a message to some saint to intercede

4344
04:04:32,239 --> 04:04:35,319
for like, I can't, I'm not. I'm not ruling it out.

4345
04:04:35,360 --> 04:04:37,879
I just i'm not. I've never seen a good reason

4346
04:04:37,920 --> 04:04:41,479
to think that it's actually happening. But anyway, so anyway,

4347
04:04:41,520 --> 04:04:43,879
so it's a situation where I don't accept that, but

4348
04:04:44,799 --> 04:04:46,559
I don't know. It could be it could be correct,

4349
04:04:46,600 --> 04:04:47,639
it could be entirely correct.

4350
04:04:49,120 --> 04:04:51,760
Speaker 1: Noise and finally, final super CHANSI and then I have

4351
04:04:51,799 --> 04:04:54,920
to go because I'm really really tired. Dennis, and they

4352
04:04:55,000 --> 04:04:57,879
say the Evanngers was the most ambitious collab of all time. Yeah, right,

4353
04:04:57,959 --> 04:04:59,760
this team is better. See and this comes in forms

4354
04:04:59,799 --> 04:05:04,360
of uh, Shickels. Thank you, Thank you, Dennis, appreciate that.

4355
04:05:04,760 --> 04:05:08,000
Joseph Jay, what do you make of Michael Jones's idea

4356
04:05:08,000 --> 04:05:09,600
of the Jewish revolutionary spirit?

4357
04:05:09,760 --> 04:05:14,760
Speaker 3: Mike Jones, I haven't read the book. I'm familiar with

4358
04:05:14,840 --> 04:05:17,559
the thesis. I've been on the same podcast, and you

4359
04:05:17,639 --> 04:05:20,639
know we've had some we never directly interacted. I tried

4360
04:05:20,680 --> 04:05:22,639
to set up a couple of debates, so I have,

4361
04:05:22,959 --> 04:05:29,159
you know, some significant disagreements with Michael Jones. It's difficult

4362
04:05:29,239 --> 04:05:33,879
to say that all Jews are necessarily revolutionary. I don't

4363
04:05:33,879 --> 04:05:37,639
think that's necessarily the case. But I think that the

4364
04:05:37,760 --> 04:05:41,520
religion of Judaism after the destruction of the Temple tends

4365
04:05:41,719 --> 04:05:47,040
to try to define itself in an in an anti

4366
04:05:47,159 --> 04:05:49,879
Christianity position, and that's where you get, for example, some

4367
04:05:49,920 --> 04:05:53,719
of those early statements in the rabbinical texts prior to

4368
04:05:53,799 --> 04:05:57,280
the codification of the Talmud that kind of set Judaism

4369
04:05:57,360 --> 04:06:00,120
on the path towards what eventually becomes kind of of

4370
04:06:00,159 --> 04:06:07,239
a miman IDEs strict unitarianism. So there's a tendency I

4371
04:06:07,319 --> 04:06:12,479
think in Judaism to be revolutionary and to be anti

4372
04:06:12,600 --> 04:06:16,440
Christian for sure, But I don't know that collectively we

4373
04:06:16,520 --> 04:06:19,440
get we got to sign like genetic guilt or anything

4374
04:06:19,520 --> 04:06:19,719
like that.

4375
04:06:20,399 --> 04:06:22,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, you, Michael Jones is also mentally ill, so that's

4376
04:06:22,760 --> 04:06:25,799
that's another issue. So very very severe.

4377
04:06:25,879 --> 04:06:26,840
Speaker 3: Are you joking Erbians?

4378
04:06:30,319 --> 04:06:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't really wanna send the question. No, it was

4379
04:06:35,120 --> 04:06:39,680
meant to be an insult, but yeah, that's it. Arctic

4380
04:06:39,799 --> 04:06:43,319
based ap Zechariah eight twenty three is not commonly read

4381
04:06:43,440 --> 04:06:45,360
typologically look it up, but it should be read in

4382
04:06:45,440 --> 04:06:52,719
relation to Jeremiah sixteen nineteen both eschatological passages. Okay, sevent

4383
04:06:52,760 --> 04:06:55,440
eleven says Jay, why want Jordan Peterson just admit that

4384
04:06:55,520 --> 04:06:59,319
he's gnostic and an occultist occultist that.

4385
04:07:00,000 --> 04:07:02,000
Speaker 3: You should ask Pago that he knows it a lot better.

4386
04:07:02,319 --> 04:07:04,840
I don't know Pierson at all, but I know Pagoe

4387
04:07:05,200 --> 04:07:05,719
fairly well.

4388
04:07:05,879 --> 04:07:09,079
Speaker 1: But what do you mean or cult it? Seven and

4389
04:07:09,280 --> 04:07:11,840
fifty donuts of doom? What would it sound like if

4390
04:07:11,959 --> 04:07:15,440
Nicholas Cage wasn't too tg but very confused by instant

4391
04:07:15,920 --> 04:07:17,239
incentiating coconuts?

4392
04:07:20,879 --> 04:07:23,239
Speaker 3: Well, I believe in coconuts, but I just don't know

4393
04:07:23,280 --> 04:07:25,959
how to instantiate them and what to do with them

4394
04:07:27,360 --> 04:07:28,079
like that. I don't know.

4395
04:07:28,479 --> 04:07:34,639
Speaker 1: That's a weird one, Doctor Alex tres Rundi strastravery, your

4396
04:07:35,000 --> 04:07:40,200
Staverydakis finally got it. Sorry, love to ap and David

4397
04:07:40,200 --> 04:07:41,959
would as well. Yes, thank you, thank you well. I

4398
04:07:42,000 --> 04:07:45,479
appreciate Oh t Genes, says Jay. Did you text Sam

4399
04:07:45,559 --> 04:07:47,680
that he was a balden word? I'm af and I

4400
04:07:47,719 --> 04:07:48,479
don't believe.

4401
04:07:48,280 --> 04:07:48,719
Speaker 2: It was you.

4402
04:07:48,920 --> 04:07:50,280
Speaker 1: I searched for clarification for me.

4403
04:07:50,319 --> 04:07:54,079
Speaker 3: Please let me know. I was life streaming when that happened,

4404
04:07:54,159 --> 04:07:57,840
So I wasn't simultaneously in his stream yard link. No,

4405
04:07:58,000 --> 04:07:58,440
that wasn't it.

4406
04:07:59,040 --> 04:08:01,799
Speaker 1: The only person that needs to be here for peacemaking

4407
04:08:01,879 --> 04:08:03,879
here is now same. And I know that you both

4408
04:08:03,920 --> 04:08:06,520
have problems with him. But respect to Sam. I learned

4409
04:08:06,520 --> 04:08:09,239
a lot from him as well Christ's life. I spent

4410
04:08:09,399 --> 04:08:12,040
like one hundred dollars today on Big John stealing god

4411
04:08:12,120 --> 04:08:14,040
logic here have some as well. Think you appreciate that

4412
04:08:14,520 --> 04:08:16,639
fisherman's corner. Love you guys, great job is always in

4413
04:08:16,719 --> 04:08:18,680
Jay's an author. But I would actually consider debating, but

4414
04:08:18,760 --> 04:08:21,000
we seem to agree on too many things. Got to

4415
04:08:21,040 --> 04:08:22,479
go a night good, by the way.

4416
04:08:22,559 --> 04:08:25,239
Speaker 3: When I was asking, I was, I was? It was

4417
04:08:25,280 --> 04:08:28,239
an honest question, like I didn't know if e Michael Jones,

4418
04:08:28,319 --> 04:08:30,319
like if you knew that he had some kind of

4419
04:08:30,360 --> 04:08:32,520
mental illness, or if you were just saying like in

4420
04:08:32,639 --> 04:08:34,840
the you know how in the colloquial sense we say,

4421
04:08:34,879 --> 04:08:35,760
oh that guy's crazy.

4422
04:08:36,040 --> 04:08:37,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm just saying that he's a he's a

4423
04:08:37,920 --> 04:08:42,120
sick and uh, you know, messed up person. So that's it.

4424
04:08:43,120 --> 04:08:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well sometimes we say people are crazy in a

4425
04:08:47,079 --> 04:08:50,440
colloquial sense, but then sometimes people mean, no, he's actually

4426
04:08:50,719 --> 04:08:51,680
like crazy, Like.

4427
04:08:51,719 --> 04:08:54,319
Speaker 1: There's a I mean, to be very honest, I don't

4428
04:08:54,319 --> 04:08:55,319
know if he's actually crazy.

4429
04:08:55,399 --> 04:08:55,680
Speaker 2: It might be.

4430
04:08:55,760 --> 04:09:00,360
Speaker 1: It might explain a lot of things, honestly, Adam, Jay,

4431
04:09:00,360 --> 04:09:02,360
when are you going to accept Joseph Smith? Peace be

4432
04:09:02,479 --> 04:09:07,200
upon him as God's messenger? Just kidding, I'm ex Mormon

4433
04:09:07,239 --> 04:09:09,920
turned Orthodox. Please keep debating more mes nice.

4434
04:09:10,680 --> 04:09:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mormons are. They're a whole wild bunch of their own.

4435
04:09:14,479 --> 04:09:16,639
Speaker 1: Oh you're debate them on spaces heat sucks, says Jay

4436
04:09:16,680 --> 04:09:18,760
could make you could you make a quick argument on

4437
04:09:18,799 --> 04:09:22,399
why you're specifically an Orthodox Christian over any other Christian denomination?

4438
04:09:22,879 --> 04:09:24,920
What's the one word argument that you could make here?

4439
04:09:27,680 --> 04:09:30,399
Speaker 3: I guess the strongest case would be if you look

4440
04:09:30,479 --> 04:09:34,760
at the structure of Christianity the first thousand years. If

4441
04:09:34,799 --> 04:09:36,600
we have the assumption that we want to be in

4442
04:09:36,760 --> 04:09:40,520
line with historic Christianity, I think that's really the only

4443
04:09:40,559 --> 04:09:42,840
one that matches up. I don't think Protestantism and I

4444
04:09:42,879 --> 04:09:44,959
don't think Rome match up to that.

4445
04:09:45,760 --> 04:09:46,040
Speaker 2: Nice.

4446
04:09:46,799 --> 04:09:50,520
Speaker 1: Uh, finally, final, super chet Hey, nice to see your teller, Ted.

4447
04:09:50,639 --> 04:09:53,520
Let me look, when Christians make peace, the devil is defeated.

4448
04:09:53,600 --> 04:09:56,159
Glad to see and also very glad to see you here.

4449
04:09:57,600 --> 04:10:00,920
Follow you on Twitter, Olsen on his X all right,

4450
04:10:01,319 --> 04:10:04,520
anything else? I think we had done with the super chess. Finally,

4451
04:10:05,040 --> 04:10:11,159
sick of reading all these messages. Uh, hey, it was

4452
04:10:11,200 --> 04:10:13,680
great to get together. Jay, really glad that we did this.

4453
04:10:15,639 --> 04:10:17,559
It was kind of bothering me this whole thing. So

4454
04:10:17,920 --> 04:10:22,239
I'm glad that we talked it out and uh made peace.

4455
04:10:23,360 --> 04:10:26,239
Speaker 2: Ape is trying to clean up all his beasts before

4456
04:10:26,319 --> 04:10:27,760
his baptism. Yeah.

4457
04:10:28,600 --> 04:10:30,520
Speaker 3: Well, if you have any questions, you know, feel free

4458
04:10:30,520 --> 04:10:32,799
to hit me up. And you know, if you if

4459
04:10:32,840 --> 04:10:35,959
you if I say something you disagree with, Uh, maybe

4460
04:10:36,120 --> 04:10:38,600
you and I should just chat one on one and

4461
04:10:39,000 --> 04:10:41,120
and talk it out. We'll do it that way. That's

4462
04:10:41,159 --> 04:10:41,799
a better route.

4463
04:10:42,559 --> 04:10:45,200
Speaker 1: There is a an ego problem that gets in the

4464
04:10:45,239 --> 04:10:50,040
way a lot, sometimes so most humble, although I'm more

4465
04:10:50,040 --> 04:10:51,639
of the most humble, of which I so I don't

4466
04:10:51,639 --> 04:10:55,079
have the ego problem, but sometimes even to me, even

4467
04:10:55,120 --> 04:10:58,520
to me, uh, anything else you guys want to say

4468
04:10:58,559 --> 04:10:59,280
before you head off.

4469
04:11:00,159 --> 04:11:02,239
Speaker 3: No, thanks for having me on, and I'm glad we

4470
04:11:02,319 --> 04:11:04,159
had a peaceful conversation. It was really cool.

4471
04:11:04,799 --> 04:11:08,360
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, and even David is happy as a result

4472
04:11:08,440 --> 04:11:08,600
of this.

4473
04:11:09,440 --> 04:11:09,840
Speaker 2: Just love me.

4474
04:11:10,680 --> 04:11:15,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, thanks everybody for watching, thanks for joining.

4475
04:11:15,559 --> 04:11:17,600
Sorry that we couldn't deliver a fights. Maybe next time

4476
04:11:17,600 --> 04:11:26,040
we'll have more energy and start fighting. Yeah, but thanks

4477
04:11:26,120 --> 04:11:29,040
for joining everybody, and thanks for listening, thanks for tuning in.

4478
04:11:29,959 --> 04:11:34,000
Hope to do more together in the future. Uh and

4479
04:11:34,879 --> 04:11:43,920
until then, as always, yeah powerful

4480
04:11:45,440 --> 04:11:46,440
Speaker 3: Stay away from a slab.