Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
back in and pick up where we left off with
the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, so
you recall a hot list? You don't remember seeing it? Thomas.
I don't remember seeing it, no question. Okay, So you
never like, reviewed it or anything? Thomas, I don't remember
reviewing it. No, I don't question. Were you supposed to
if you were assigned to the shoe, were you supposed
to say, oh, these people are on the hot list,
I need to take special care of these people. Thomas.
I don't think so, no question. No Thomas, I don't
think so. I don't think it was anything special care
about these people or not? Absolutely not question. So what
would be the purpose of posting a hot list? Then?
Who would it be for? Thomas? It's for the staff
in the shoe. Question, right, Thomas, it's for the staff
in the shoe. Question. So if your staff in the shoe,
doesn't that mean that you're supposed to look at it? Thomas?
Supposed to for the staff, Yeah, you're supposed to look
at it. Question? All right, But you didn't, Thomas, I
would say no, I didn't look at it that night.
No question fair enough. So do you know if Epstein
was on the hot list? Thomas, I don't know if
he was on the hot list? Question, but do you
know he was on suicide watch and that he should
have had a cell mate? Thomas? Yes, I knew that
he was a suicide person. Yes. Question Okay. Now, could
shoe staff have assigned Epstein a new cell mate? Thomas?
Could shoe staff do it? I don't know if shoe
staff could do it. I know the shoe lieutenant or
something like that could do it, But I don't know
if shoe staff could just give him I don't know.
Question So, who would be responsible for assigning Epstein a
new cell mate? So let me restate that if it
wasn't clear Reyes was his cell mate, he was required
to have a cell mate because he was on suicide
watch Thomas. Yeah. Question, and psychology made sure, or was
supposed to make sure that everyone knew that he was
supposed to have a cell mate. Thomas, Okay. Question, So,
if Reyes leaves as his cell mate on August ninth,
twenty nineteen, who would be responsible for placing a new
cell mate with Epstein Thomas, Honestly, I don't know. I'm
sure it has to come from somebody up high, obviously
a lieutenant, or it could have sometimes high profile, could
come from administration. Question okay, answer whatever the case may be.
So specifically, I really don't know, but I know it
somebody higher up has to give them higher up than me.
Question okay, answer. I don't think an officer would just
put somebody in there with them. Question Okay, Now, is
that discussed at all, like during any of those trainings
or the suicide prevention training? Is it discussed like, hey,
if you know this guy is on suicide watch, make
sure he's got a cell mate? Thomas? I don't think so.
I don't think it's discussed like that. No, I don't. Question.
All right, So, how do you know that if you're
on suicide watch, they should the inmate should have a
cell mate. Thomas, I mean we were told. You're told
before that if an inmate's previously been on suicide that
he has a cell mate. Question. So, I guess what
I'm asking is when were you told that? And where? Thomas?
I've been there for fourteen I mean I can't remember exactly. Question,
So possibly training, Thomas, possibly training word of mouth, like
but I don't know. Question you knew it, but you
just don't remember where you learned it from. Thomas. Yeah,
that's correct. But then you have inmates that go on
suicide watch and come back that don't have a cell mate.
So I've seen that also have inmates, oh there, come
off suicide and not have a cell mate. Question would
there be a reason for a person who came off
suicide watch not to have a cell mate? Mister Thomas,
I don't know the reason or anything. Like I said,
that's also the psychology personnel that handle that. But I've
seen also with inmates come up and they go into
a cell by themselves. Question Okay, and again I don't
know that this was clear. If you're working in the
shoe and you know someone is supposed to have a
cell mate, are you authorized to provide them with a
new cell mate? Mister Thomas, I don't know. Question you
don't know, Thomas, I don't know. Question have you ever
done it? Thomas, No, I've never done it. Question you've
never done that? Thomas, No, I've never just put somebody inside.
Are we talking about suicide. I've never just put somebody
in a cell with somebody else. Question, okay, Thomas, especially
not at morning watch. Absolutely not question as someone in
the shoe working in there and knowing someone without a
cell mate that should have a cell mate, should you
report it to the lieutenant Thomas, if they don't have
a cell mate, should you report it to the lieutenant?
I don't know. I mean usually if that happens, the lieutenant,
because with certain inmates, you can't just put somebody in
with them like that. It could be a racial thing,
it could have been a previous incident, he could be
whatever the case may be. So I know officers don't
want to just do it because when they say that
the person can't be with them. And also before you
put an inmate inside, you have to check their background
as far as steps, so this person can't be with
this person or this one is affiliated with this and
this person. So for an officer, because some officers don't
have the programming, I mean, don't have the thing just
to say, oh, well, I'm going to see inmate this
and I'm going to put him into that. So that's
why an officer wouldn't just put an inmate side with another.
You know what I mean, it has to come down
from up top. Question all right, from your knowledge being
that rerais left and Epstein is required to have a
cell mate and didn't have one, do you believe shoe
staff should have assigned Epstein a new cell mate? Answer?
I don't know. Question So, per your training and your
work experience, Thomas, should shoe staff have assigned them? No?
I believe that should have come from somebody else above them?
Question Okay, Thomas, somebody above the shoe staff. Question So,
if the shoe staff doesn't inform anyone about an inmate
required to have a cell mate, that they don't, how
do people hire above them learn that there is no
cell mate with someone like Epstein? Thomas, Well, whoever is
on shift at the time. It's a process like if
someone leaves and goes from R and D. A staff
member can't just let somebody leave, you know. Oh, I
can't just let somebody walk just because he walk in
and then he walks out. He has to come from
R and D. Oh this person was released, and then
because then the base count changes, and then so it's
notified before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody
left Now if it wasn't you know that specific that
ray has left? You know what I mean that Jeffrey Epstein.
I know, before it gets to the shoe staff, happened
to put somebody in there. It has to come from
someone else to know that inmates left from a particular
housing unit, or Shoe have to tell them the inmate
left from a particular Now, whether they know that it
was Epstein's cell mate that left, I don't know. That's
above me. But it comes from way up. It comes
from before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody left.
The only thing that shoe staff is going to get
is a call saying that, oh, base count changed such
and such is not their question. So if the people
that are calling shoe and saying, hey, this inmate is so,
is this instance it would be August ninth, shoe staff,
You weren't there, But shoe staff gets the call and hey,
inmate Reyes is leaving. Do those people know that Reyes
was assigned to Epstein Thomas. I mean, I'm sure they
should have question or would the shoe staff be responsible
for saying he's leaving? But Epstein is required to have
a cell mate. That's Epstein's cell mate, how does that
information get passed along? Thomas. I don't know. Question okay, Thomas.
I don't know when that particular, when that will happen.
I really couldn't tell you when that call would actually
go down. Question Okay, and this is specific to you.
If you said you didn't, but you would been authorized
to assign Epstein a new cell mate during your shift
on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, would I have been
authorized to do it? Question? Right? So, if you knew
that Epstein was required to have a cell mate, Thomas,
if somebody would have told me to give him, I
wouldn't have just taken it upon myself to take an
inmate out from X and put him in there with Epstein. No,
if somebody authorized me to put him in there, then
I would have put him in there. Question. But you
wouldn't have that authorization to do it independently, Thomas, independently,
no question, So you couldn't on your own make the decision, Hey,
he's without an inmate, he's without a cell mate. I
need to get a new inmate in there. Thomas. I'm
going to say, no, question, okay, Thomas. I'm going to say, no, not,
especially with a high profile. You're not just going to
put somebody in with somebody else. Absolutely not question. All right,
And obviously since you didn't know, I believe I already
know the answer to this. But did you notify anyone
during your shift on August tenth that Epstein did not
have a cell mate? Thomas? No question, no, all right.
Now we're going to talk a little bit about staff
psychologists because you mentioned them. Do you know who the
MCC staff psychologists were in August of twenty nineteen, Thomas
doctor redacted? Is doctor redacted to the chief? Thomas? Yeah,
the chief or whatever it's called. Are you aware of
Epstein meeting with any of the staff psychologists during his
stay at the MCC Thomas no question, No, Thomas, No,
I'm not question. So would have Thomas cuts them off?
I'm sure if you went on suicide I'm sure he
met with them, but I don't know specifically that they
go on this date and he met with them. If
he was on suicide Watch, I'm sure he met with someone. Question. Now,
who places someone on suicide watch? Thomas psychology question. Okay, So,
if Epstein, like you said, was on suicide watch, would
psychology then place him there. Thomas. Well, a psychology will
say that he has to go there, and then the staff,
the custody staff would actually take him to the suicide
question Okay, and just briefly, what is suicide watch answer?
It's a place where you watch somebody on suicide. Question
Like you said, did you say the second floor Thomas,
It's on the second floor? Question? So the second floor
is a separate area. Thomas. It's a separate area. Four
cells and in the pack you can I've seen suicide
watch be in the shoes sometimes. Question And just on
that note, where is the shoe? What floor Thomas? Ninth question?
Ninth floor? All right, so he was on the ninth floor,
went down to the second floor, Epstein, that is on
suicide watch. So it's the second floor, And like how
long are they there? Like who makes the determination? I
guess is what I'm saying. Who's in there? Is psychology
like co located with it? Or how is it? You know,
the suicide watch area? How is that set up? Thomas?
It's a room on the second floor. It's four rooms
on the second floor, single rooms, big glass door, food slot.
Same on the other side. There are two adjoining doors.
It has a shower there, so like if you have
to shower, then there is a closet. Question is psychology
near there? Thomas, The psychology is down the hall. Question
also on the second floor, Thomas, also on the second floor. Question,
so would they do you believe that they would meet
with people that are on suicide watch? Answer? I'm sure yes. Question. Okay,
all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right there, and
in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
pick up where we left off. All of the information
that goes with this episode can be found in the
description box.