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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right

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back in and pick up where we left off with

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the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, so

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you recall a hot list? You don't remember seeing it? Thomas.

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I don't remember seeing it, no question. Okay, So you

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never like, reviewed it or anything? Thomas, I don't remember

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reviewing it. No, I don't question. Were you supposed to

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if you were assigned to the shoe, were you supposed

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to say, oh, these people are on the hot list,

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I need to take special care of these people. Thomas.

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I don't think so, no question. No Thomas, I don't

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think so. I don't think it was anything special care

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about these people or not? Absolutely not question. So what

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would be the purpose of posting a hot list? Then?

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Who would it be for? Thomas? It's for the staff

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in the shoe. Question, right, Thomas, it's for the staff

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in the shoe. Question. So if your staff in the shoe,

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doesn't that mean that you're supposed to look at it? Thomas?

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Supposed to for the staff, Yeah, you're supposed to look

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at it. Question? All right, But you didn't, Thomas, I

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would say no, I didn't look at it that night.

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No question fair enough. So do you know if Epstein

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was on the hot list? Thomas, I don't know if

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he was on the hot list? Question, but do you

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know he was on suicide watch and that he should

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have had a cell mate? Thomas? Yes, I knew that

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he was a suicide person. Yes. Question Okay. Now, could

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shoe staff have assigned Epstein a new cell mate? Thomas?

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Could shoe staff do it? I don't know if shoe

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staff could do it. I know the shoe lieutenant or

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something like that could do it, But I don't know

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if shoe staff could just give him I don't know.

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Question So, who would be responsible for assigning Epstein a

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new cell mate? So let me restate that if it

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wasn't clear Reyes was his cell mate, he was required

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to have a cell mate because he was on suicide

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watch Thomas. Yeah. Question, and psychology made sure, or was

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supposed to make sure that everyone knew that he was

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supposed to have a cell mate. Thomas, Okay. Question, So,

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if Reyes leaves as his cell mate on August ninth,

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twenty nineteen, who would be responsible for placing a new

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cell mate with Epstein Thomas, Honestly, I don't know. I'm

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sure it has to come from somebody up high, obviously

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a lieutenant, or it could have sometimes high profile, could

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come from administration. Question okay, answer whatever the case may be.

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So specifically, I really don't know, but I know it

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somebody higher up has to give them higher up than me.

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Question okay, answer. I don't think an officer would just

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put somebody in there with them. Question Okay, Now, is

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that discussed at all, like during any of those trainings

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or the suicide prevention training? Is it discussed like, hey,

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if you know this guy is on suicide watch, make

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sure he's got a cell mate? Thomas? I don't think so.

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I don't think it's discussed like that. No, I don't. Question.

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All right, So, how do you know that if you're

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on suicide watch, they should the inmate should have a

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cell mate. Thomas, I mean we were told. You're told

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before that if an inmate's previously been on suicide that

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he has a cell mate. Question. So, I guess what

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I'm asking is when were you told that? And where? Thomas?

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I've been there for fourteen I mean I can't remember exactly. Question,

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So possibly training, Thomas, possibly training word of mouth, like

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but I don't know. Question you knew it, but you

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just don't remember where you learned it from. Thomas. Yeah,

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that's correct. But then you have inmates that go on

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suicide watch and come back that don't have a cell mate.

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So I've seen that also have inmates, oh there, come

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off suicide and not have a cell mate. Question would

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there be a reason for a person who came off

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suicide watch not to have a cell mate? Mister Thomas,

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I don't know the reason or anything. Like I said,

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that's also the psychology personnel that handle that. But I've

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seen also with inmates come up and they go into

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a cell by themselves. Question Okay, and again I don't

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know that this was clear. If you're working in the

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shoe and you know someone is supposed to have a

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cell mate, are you authorized to provide them with a

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new cell mate? Mister Thomas, I don't know. Question you

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don't know, Thomas, I don't know. Question have you ever

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done it? Thomas, No, I've never done it. Question you've

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never done that? Thomas, No, I've never just put somebody inside.

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Are we talking about suicide. I've never just put somebody

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in a cell with somebody else. Question, okay, Thomas, especially

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not at morning watch. Absolutely not question as someone in

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the shoe working in there and knowing someone without a

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cell mate that should have a cell mate, should you

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report it to the lieutenant Thomas, if they don't have

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a cell mate, should you report it to the lieutenant?

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I don't know. I mean usually if that happens, the lieutenant,

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because with certain inmates, you can't just put somebody in

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with them like that. It could be a racial thing,

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it could have been a previous incident, he could be

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whatever the case may be. So I know officers don't

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want to just do it because when they say that

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the person can't be with them. And also before you

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put an inmate inside, you have to check their background

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as far as steps, so this person can't be with

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this person or this one is affiliated with this and

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this person. So for an officer, because some officers don't

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have the programming, I mean, don't have the thing just

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to say, oh, well, I'm going to see inmate this

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and I'm going to put him into that. So that's

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why an officer wouldn't just put an inmate side with another.

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You know what I mean, it has to come down

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from up top. Question all right, from your knowledge being

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that rerais left and Epstein is required to have a

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cell mate and didn't have one, do you believe shoe

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staff should have assigned Epstein a new cell mate? Answer?

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I don't know. Question So, per your training and your

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work experience, Thomas, should shoe staff have assigned them? No?

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I believe that should have come from somebody else above them?

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Question Okay, Thomas, somebody above the shoe staff. Question So,

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if the shoe staff doesn't inform anyone about an inmate

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required to have a cell mate, that they don't, how

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do people hire above them learn that there is no

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cell mate with someone like Epstein? Thomas, Well, whoever is

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on shift at the time. It's a process like if

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someone leaves and goes from R and D. A staff

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member can't just let somebody leave, you know. Oh, I

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can't just let somebody walk just because he walk in

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and then he walks out. He has to come from

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R and D. Oh this person was released, and then

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because then the base count changes, and then so it's

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notified before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody

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left Now if it wasn't you know that specific that

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ray has left? You know what I mean that Jeffrey Epstein.

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I know, before it gets to the shoe staff, happened

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to put somebody in there. It has to come from

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someone else to know that inmates left from a particular

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housing unit, or Shoe have to tell them the inmate

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left from a particular Now, whether they know that it

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was Epstein's cell mate that left, I don't know. That's

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above me. But it comes from way up. It comes

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from before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody left.

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The only thing that shoe staff is going to get

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is a call saying that, oh, base count changed such

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and such is not their question. So if the people

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that are calling shoe and saying, hey, this inmate is so,

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is this instance it would be August ninth, shoe staff,

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You weren't there, But shoe staff gets the call and hey,

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inmate Reyes is leaving. Do those people know that Reyes

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was assigned to Epstein Thomas. I mean, I'm sure they

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should have question or would the shoe staff be responsible

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for saying he's leaving? But Epstein is required to have

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a cell mate. That's Epstein's cell mate, how does that

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information get passed along? Thomas. I don't know. Question okay, Thomas.

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I don't know when that particular, when that will happen.

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I really couldn't tell you when that call would actually

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go down. Question Okay, and this is specific to you.

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If you said you didn't, but you would been authorized

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to assign Epstein a new cell mate during your shift

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on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, would I have been

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authorized to do it? Question? Right? So, if you knew

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that Epstein was required to have a cell mate, Thomas,

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if somebody would have told me to give him, I

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wouldn't have just taken it upon myself to take an

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inmate out from X and put him in there with Epstein. No,

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if somebody authorized me to put him in there, then

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I would have put him in there. Question. But you

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wouldn't have that authorization to do it independently, Thomas, independently,

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no question, So you couldn't on your own make the decision, Hey,

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he's without an inmate, he's without a cell mate. I

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need to get a new inmate in there. Thomas. I'm

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going to say, no, question, okay, Thomas. I'm going to say, no, not,

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especially with a high profile. You're not just going to

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put somebody in with somebody else. Absolutely not question. All right,

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And obviously since you didn't know, I believe I already

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know the answer to this. But did you notify anyone

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during your shift on August tenth that Epstein did not

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have a cell mate? Thomas? No question, no, all right.

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Now we're going to talk a little bit about staff

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psychologists because you mentioned them. Do you know who the

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MCC staff psychologists were in August of twenty nineteen, Thomas

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doctor redacted? Is doctor redacted to the chief? Thomas? Yeah,

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the chief or whatever it's called. Are you aware of

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Epstein meeting with any of the staff psychologists during his

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stay at the MCC Thomas no question, No, Thomas, No,

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I'm not question. So would have Thomas cuts them off?

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I'm sure if you went on suicide I'm sure he

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met with them, but I don't know specifically that they

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go on this date and he met with them. If

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he was on suicide Watch, I'm sure he met with someone. Question. Now,

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who places someone on suicide watch? Thomas psychology question. Okay, So,

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if Epstein, like you said, was on suicide watch, would

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psychology then place him there. Thomas. Well, a psychology will

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say that he has to go there, and then the staff,

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the custody staff would actually take him to the suicide

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question Okay, and just briefly, what is suicide watch answer?

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It's a place where you watch somebody on suicide. Question

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Like you said, did you say the second floor Thomas,

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It's on the second floor? Question? So the second floor

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is a separate area. Thomas. It's a separate area. Four

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cells and in the pack you can I've seen suicide

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watch be in the shoes sometimes. Question And just on

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that note, where is the shoe? What floor Thomas? Ninth question?

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Ninth floor? All right, so he was on the ninth floor,

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went down to the second floor, Epstein, that is on

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suicide watch. So it's the second floor, And like how

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long are they there? Like who makes the determination? I

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guess is what I'm saying. Who's in there? Is psychology

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like co located with it? Or how is it? You know,

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the suicide watch area? How is that set up? Thomas?

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It's a room on the second floor. It's four rooms

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on the second floor, single rooms, big glass door, food slot.

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Same on the other side. There are two adjoining doors.

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It has a shower there, so like if you have

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to shower, then there is a closet. Question is psychology

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near there? Thomas, The psychology is down the hall. Question

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also on the second floor, Thomas, also on the second floor. Question,

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so would they do you believe that they would meet

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with people that are on suicide watch? Answer? I'm sure yes. Question. Okay,

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all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right there, and

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in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna

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pick up where we left off. All of the information

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that goes with this episode can be found in the

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description box.