Speaker 1: S.
Speaker 2: What up? Everybody?
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast
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Speaker 2: You're just selling pole whatever. Okay, got to make a living, okay,
all right, So a question of theday, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: So it sparked the concept as I had a gentleman
that asked me about running non metallic sheath cable in
a soffit and was it a wet location, was it
a damp location, is it a dry location? And that
sparked me to thinking a little bit because typically I
tell people, you know, go through our Paul Abernathy dot com.
It didn't come through that one, but since I was
answering it and it sparked a fault that I am
more than sure that of a vast amount of people
struggle with that, right They they're like, Okay, what's damp,
what's wet, what's dry? And sometimes it can be very
obvious what's dry. Right in your walls, finished walls, inside
the envelope.
Speaker 2: Of your building, it's a dry location.
Speaker 1: Okay, except if you happen to run somewhere we're going
to be spraying down or washing down or whatever, then
you might classify as a wet or damp location. But
for the most part, inside the walls, inside the building,
inside the building envelope, we think of it as a
dry location. But what's interesting is people come up with
these things like, Okay, well I have a porch and
it's open, it's screened in, okay, and you know I'm
going to have it in side of the walls, inside.
Speaker 2: Of the porch.
Speaker 1: Well, if it's inside finished, it's finished off, then I
would consider in the walls a dry location. Right that
type of scenario, if you're going to run it out
underneath to say a canopy or out underneath the cover
and it's exposed, well, then that may kick it into
a different classification. I think what's really important with this
is that so many people today, and it's the same
people that hate the NEC, right, the National let Go Code.
Speaker 2: They go, I wish this, this, this, I hate this,
this this.
Speaker 1: But then when there's something that they don't feel is clear,
then they bitch about the NEEC. They go, it needs
to be it needs to be definitive. Yet when something
is definitive they gripe about it. You can't have it
both ways. So for example, if they don't like something
with GFCI requirements, then the gripe about it rather than
submit something and try to justify a change or do something.
It's just gripe about it, rather than just do what
the code says and do it. I mean, I understand
you have personal feelings about it. I get it, but
it is what it is, right, it's in the code,
so you do what you do what the code says. Now,
same people will then have a situation where they want
the code to be just so black and white that
they are upset because it's ambiguous. And sometimes it is
for a reason and the reason. A good example of
this reason is for a wet, dryer, damp location because
every location, depending on where you're at in the country,
what the conditions of use are are different. A AHJ's
authority having jurisdiction, you're a local inspector who's working on
behalf of the building official as their deputy, who has
been given the rights to act as the AHJ for
a project.
Speaker 2: They have to make determinations.
Speaker 1: Now do they always make the right determinations that you know,
not always, but they're you know, I want to believe
deep down that they're doing the best that they can
based on the knowledge that they have in their experience
in that area.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd like to think it that way.
Speaker 1: I'm not again, I'm being an inspector, being supervisors and
of many inspectors through the years and multiple jurisdictions, all
those type of things. I want to think that inherently
they want to do the right thing right and that's
the way I want to think. So they're not gonna
My hope is that they're not going to make you
do things that are just to do them, Because I'm
hoping that they don't make you do things just because
you know they're they're being vindictive based on how they
were forced to do things. I always used to tell
my inspectors leave that hat at home. Just enforce the
code as a minimum. Don't impose your will on somebody
else just because you may not like something. If it
is compliant and that's the choice of the installer, then
you let them do their job. It's not your responsibility
to say, well, I don't like how that's done. If
it's compliant, and unless you can give a code reference
that states otherwise, then I really tell my inspectors and
I'll leave your opinion out of it. Just inspect it
and move on. That's their choice. That's between them and
their customer. You just make sure it meets the minimum
safety standard. That is your only job as an inspector
meeting the minimums, not forcing people to go above the minimum.
Speaker 2: Meet the minimum.
Speaker 1: If you're going to go above the minimum, that's between
you and your customer as a contractor not should not
be the inspector. Now, with that said, bringing it back
to this wet, damp, dry location.
Speaker 2: Thing, good news for us.
Speaker 1: We at least have the guidance of the definitions within
the National Electrical Code to help give us some guy
in this. And of course there is informational notes which
are purely informational, that are typically found under damp location,
for example, And there's some informational note that's found under
wet location. There isn't one under dry because I mean
that one's pretty straightforward, but it does have some language
with that that isn't in an informational note that is
in the body of the code that gives us great
understanding of temporary wetness and dampness. Right, and everybody knows
their condition differently, right, And I'll explain to you why
I think that's so important that it's the way it's
written is believe it or not. People want things to
be so cut and dry, but you know, pun intended.
Speaker 2: But let's talk about a bathroom for example.
Speaker 1: I could have a bathroom and then people say, well,
they turn the hot water on and it gets foggy
in there. There's moisture in the fog, so that you
know that's in the room, you know, the steam and whatnot,
and so that makes it a wet location or damp location.
I'm like, really, is that what you want?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's taking it to the extreme, because if that's a situation,
then every receptacle that you put in air has going
to be a WP rating on it. That means that
you're lumin airs that are not within your your area
where they're permitted to be. Let's say the three by
eight foot where if it's surface mounted and it's listed
for wet location or damp depending on the condition, do
you want everything to have to be rated for a
wet or damp location inside of a bathroom? Maybe be
very careful what you ask for if you want things
so black and white, because, believe it or not, the
ambinguity is that it ambiguousness.
Speaker 2: Ambiguity, isn't it.
Speaker 1: The the the grayness here you go. Some people say
gray I always I hate to say gray areas because
I say it's just areas of negotiation. But those reading
the code and the interpretation can be different depending on
where you're at in the country because of the conditions
of use in a wherever you're at in the country.
Speaker 2: Okay, I like a cross base.
Speaker 1: I don't ever consider a cross space right off the
bat a wet or damp location. I don't because if
I'm in the cross space and I look up and
I see thermal insulation battened maybe up there, just you
know the fiberglass, or I look up and I see
untreated studs, and I look around, I see all that,
and I'm going, well, it's obviously not a wet or
damp location, and the construction didn't signify that it was
damp or wet location.
Speaker 2: I'm not looking at treated lumber here.
Speaker 1: Then at the end of the day, and I'm not
looking at moisture, I'm not seeing puddles anywhere.
Speaker 2: Then I'm not gonna.
Speaker 1: Immediately just assume that this is going to be a
damp location. I'm just why would I want to go
down that rabbit hole? It looks like a dry location
to me, And so that's probably how it would be. Now,
if you've been in a cross space and inspector goes
in there and it's been finished and there's puddles of
water in there, there's a lot of moisture, there's evidence
of moisture on the insulation. It just looks like it
has some type of condition that causes the moisture that
is not temporary, right, it just seems like it's always
going to be there. Then basically the AHJ makes that call,
and he may say, well, you know, I think this
is a damp location. It's protected from weather, it's not
really subject to saturation with water or other liquids, but
it is subject, in their opinion, to modern degrees of moisture.
And that is the very definition of a damp location.
That is a call that you're going to have to
work with your AHJ. You know, I understand electricians just
don't like that. But again, it's the same electricians that'll
bitch about anything because it's not you know that they
think it's too strict. But here when it's kind of
loose and left up to the AHJ and for you
to negotiate and talk about this with your inspector and
kind of form a partnership here, it shouldn't be adversary.
It should be a partnership. Then people don't like it.
So I think that that's the problem. Okay, it should
not be that way. And again, there's too many electricians
that are overly arrogant, and there's too many home inspectors
that that are also uh, you know, imposing their own
will uh and have a godlike complex that type of thing,
and I think they just don't gel well together. Sometimes
as I and as inspector. When I was an inspector,
and let's say when I was a supervisor in Alexandria, Virginia,
and I had to go out to job sites, if
there was a conflict or somebody something, you know, somebody
disagreed with one of my inspectors, uh, and I'd go
out and listen to the argument, kind of like an arbiter,
listening to two sides. And if my inspector had good
justification based on what they saw in the conditions of
use or the conditions that are there, then I would
agree with them. If I disagreed with that, I may
agree with the actual contractor. But it's good to have
somebody that can be that judge. In some jurisdictions, you
don't have that. You just have the inspector and that's it.
And if you do disagree and you have a good case,
then you still can go over their head. And if
you're worried about retaliation.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't be because that's easier to prove.
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, then they can get in
more trouble at going to city managers or mayors, go
to a council meeting and point this stuff out. Even
if you go there and you just bring their name
up and get it in the mix.
Speaker 2: They do not want that publicity, Trust me, they do not.
Speaker 1: They don't want their name brought up to their supervisors,
to anybody. So I would not do it just out
of spite, because that's not going to work out with anybody.
Speaker 2: That's the cry wolf syndrome.
Speaker 1: After awhile, people we're going to say, yeah, this is
just a whiny ass contractor who's going to wind about everything.
But pick your battles and go with it, full guns
blazing when you know you're right. But most jurisdictions have
a supervisor or somebody that can be the mediator between
the situation. And then of course you have some great
inspectors around the country that are willing to listen. I
know plenty of them that are very open minded, and
we'll listen to it and say, you know what, that's plausible,
and you know what, that's another way to look at it. Okay,
I'm fine with it, right as long as they're not
lessening the code. Unless you're trying to convince them to
do something below the minimum safety standard, then that should
never take place.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm going to read you.
Speaker 1: Each one of these locations and try to give examples,
even though it's very clear when it comes to examples,
wise under damp location and under wet location, but I
kind of want to read it so that we get
a concept and then we'll talk about some of my
thoughts on this. Okay, So let's just go right with
the damp one first. The bridge between not just not wet,
it's not dry, it's considered damp. And so here's what
the definition in the National Electrical Code. And by the way,
I am on the twenty twenty three edition of the NEC. Okay,
so for those that ask what edition are you doing
twenty twenty three?
Speaker 2: For me, it's.
Speaker 1: Always the latest published edition until unless you ask me
a question on Paul Abernathy dot com. And if you
ask me a question and you're on something that's not
twenty twenty three, make sure you let me know what
code cycle you on, because again there are changes, and
I'm going to answer. If you don't tell me what
code cycle you on, I'm going to answer in the
twenty twenty three I cannot read your mind, all right.
Damp location defined as locations protected from weather and not
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, but subject
to moderate degrees of moisture. Right, So what are some
examples of this? The NEC gives us any informational notice
is not an all inclusive list, of course, but it
says examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
so it's just a canopy where the where the whatever
underneath it is really just open.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So that's the case. Marquees roofed roofed open porches, right,
so it's just an open porch where underneath it it's
under the under this the uh, the roof is just
open area, okay, and the like location. So any locations
similar to that, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees
of moisture, such as some basements, not all basements, some basements,
some barns, and some cold storage warehouses. And the importance
of this is when it says some basements, because there
are people out there that literally looked at this and
knowing that this is an informational note, it's not enforceable,
but took this as an all inclusive list, and they
will say, okay, all basements, unfinished basements, or wet locations Jesus,
I hope not, because most of the framing that's going
in these unfinished basements is not treated wood. Now, the
top plate that sits on the concrete treated because it's
in direct contact with concrete, which is going to retain moisture.
Speaker 2: But the regular wood is not.
Speaker 1: And if it's unfinished basement, for example, then it's going
to be insulated at some point, maybe electric is going
to be put in in the walls, dry location, sheet
rock put up and finished.
Speaker 2: So it's not all basements. Now. You could have partial basements.
Speaker 1: You could have a partial in the ground basement is
one area of it might be like a seller and
then you can see evidence of moisture accumulating on the walls.
You might see see effervescence or something from or or
maybe salt crystallization, depending on where you're at and the
mineralization of moisture or whatever. Maybe you even see you know,
wet insulation or something like that. That's something that's going
to be judged by your locality. The code can't give
a total, all inclusive here.
Speaker 2: This is why it's written this way.
Speaker 1: Somebody has to make that decision whether you like the
AHA or not.
Speaker 2: The one that ultimately has to make it.
Speaker 1: You're going to make it as the contractor, but you're
going to hope that the inspector sees it the same
way you do. And if they do not, and you
have to get failed because they say, oh, you can't
have this product in that location, say non metallic sheathed cable,
because it's a damp location and an M cable is
ready for dry only. Well, then you can have the
discussion the negotiation as to why you believe this is
a dry location. So that's why it's written this way,
and I know it literally drives a lot of.
Speaker 2: People batshitty crazy because.
Speaker 1: They want everything else they think is too strict right,
and they want it to loosen up a little bit.
But then when they get to something like this, they
want it to be real tight and all inclusive. You
can't have it both ways. Okay, Now moving to a
dry location. What is a dry location? This one's very
important because it may seem obvious, but we get these
calls as well as a manufacturer of non metallic sheath cable.
I probably get a couple times a month this call
about a location where they're running an M cable non
metallic sheathed cable a dry location. It says a location
not normally subject to dampness or wetness, a location classified
as dry maybe temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as
in the case of a building under construction. Now, the
real problem with this wording is it starts out it
should have ended in not. Really, it could have been
in an informational note, just like the others when it
talks about buildings under construction, because it should have just
stopped at a location classified as dry maybe temporary subject
to dampness or wetness period. Okay, because the building under
construction is not the only application where you may have
a normally dry location. Normally it's not subject to dampness awareness,
but it could be due to some event a pipe
leaking or something that that is a temporary event.
Speaker 2: It doesn't change the location.
Speaker 1: It doesn't change, you know, no different than underneath the
sink in a kitchen or in a bathroom. It does
not change the location because a water pipe could rupture
or bust. Although you would not believe the questions that
I get on that. I mean, you can laugh all
you want, you can say, Paul, you never get that
You're full of crap.
Speaker 2: I do get it.
Speaker 1: You have no idea the type of questions I get,
but I do get those kind of questions. It doesn't
make the location wet or even damp. It says it
right in the definition for dry locations that hey, if
it's a dry location, it is. If it's subject to
a temporary dampness or wetness due to some condition of
use that happens not the normal. That doesn't change what
the location is. So it shouldn't change your mindset when
you're running the type of wiring method in there, because
for all intensive purposes, it's supposed to be a dry location. Now,
the building under construction one tends to be the one
that we get contacts from because this is the putting
the cart head of the horse scenario, and put somebody's
doing construction like it's not roofed in yet, or it's
roofed in, but the windows are open and it still
just studs up and the builder is pushing the damn
electrician get in here.
Speaker 2: I need you to get in there. I need you
to get into the electricians.
Speaker 1: Like, well, you know, wait a minute, let me get
this thing walled up a little bit, because it's not
gonna affect the plumbers, right, the plastic piping or their
pecks or what ain't gonna affect them. But electrical You're like,
whoa wait a minute, cowboy, I'd like to get this
place kind of sealed in a little bit before I
start running my non metallic sheet cable with the damn
paper in the action sheathing, under the sheathing, okay, wrapping
around these conductors, right, And I got a bear in
there with a paper wrapped around it.
Speaker 2: Hold on a.
Speaker 1: Little bit, you know, I got all this exposure in
boxes and things like that. So it usually is somebody's
pushing somebody or the contractors trying to get an early
start into something in the buildings not totally closed in. Again,
I'm not going to get into that. That's that's your jurisdictions.
That's everybody's can have their argument of the timing. But
non metallic sheath cable is tested, for example, to moisture, okay.
So there's a certain test that we run as a
manufacturer m cable that puts moisture over the sheathing, not
inside the cable, it's over the sheathing, okay. And we
have certain tests that have to be done in order
for UL seven nineteen for.
Speaker 2: Non metallic sheath cable.
Speaker 1: Okay, so, but this can also play havoc on devices,
whether you have switches or receptacles and all those type
of things that get subject to moisture or exposure. And
then that kicks in a guide called the NEMA Evaluating
Water Damage Guide that you have to then take into consideration.
That could change the whole aspect because that guide tells
you exactly certain things that should be replaced that are
not reconditionable, and lord knows, we don't want to get
into that. So typically that doesn't happen on the devices
that's a flood issue or something like that sprinkler goes
off we're talking about when it says, for example, buildings
under construction, this is where you may get some moisture
that come in and get on top, gets on the
NM cable. That's okay, it's not going to hurt it.
Usually gravity will take care of itself and drip it off.
Speaker 2: That type of thing. Okay, However, it.
Speaker 1: Is your responsibility if you're going to be wiring something
early and you got boxes with the stripped out conductors
and everything, if it.
Speaker 2: Is possible for moisture.
Speaker 1: To get in that box and get in that cable assembly.
Then that is a situation where the anima evaluating water
damage guy, it's gonna have to kick in. And most
of us that are manufacturers of wiring cable for an innium,
if you get water in the end of that cable,
we're gonna recommend you replace it. That would be different
for something like a UF cable, which is designed for
wet location. Anyway there's no paper in it, then we
might have a little bit of relaxation there, but not
when it comes to NM. So all we're saying is
be careful. But a dry location is a location that
can temporarily be subject to some dampness or wetness. Okay,
A good example of that with the question I got
was about a soffit. If the soffit is you got
NM running through the soffit, maybe it's coming out for floodlights,
and it's got a bottom on it with the vents
on it, so it's a closed area. Remember that wood
up in there is not treated wood. It's regular wood.
Typically you may even have I usually have blockers so
you don't get any insulation down in there. But it
is an open space, it's a cavity. Typically, I would
not expect, you know, the nature of the way water
is that you would not have a location where I
would consider that to be damp or wet. Although you
may say, well we get a lot of humidity and
things like that, it still wouldn't raise my too much
of my concern. But you know your area better than me, okay,
But that's why the code is written like it is.
But if that is a temporary condition of dampness and
wetness and the location is actually a dry location, then
somebody has to make that call, and it's going to
be the AHJ, and you're going to have to work
with the HJ. It is not something that the NEC
needs to get involved with and be definitive on it
because every location, every condition of use is different. You
don't have the same humidity issue in some parts of
the country as others. You don't have the same level
of rain. It's it's total something that the This is
an example of AHJ's having to make the call. Okay,
But I always argue that they need to have a
firm foundation for their justification, not just say well it
could no. No, is this historically what happens. Is this
caused a problem? Have you ever seen this cause a
problem If that's why you're making the ruling that this
is a damp or wet location because you have a
known issues you've seen it, or is this just what
you feel in your heart because I'm not seeing any
evidence of water damage on the wood studs. I'm not seeing,
you know, any on the joices, the rafters, I'm not
seeing any of that stuff. And really we're only talking
humidity that's no different than what you get in a
bathroom and that's not going to create a wet or
damp location outside of your shower, bathtub space or that
zone three foot eight foot zone. So again, sometimes people
can reach over their boundaries, but just make them justify it.
It's okay to have that conversation. Help buy them a
cup of coffee and say, dude, I'd love to learn
more about your your positions on these things so that
I know moving forward how we're going to be communicate
with your inspectors. Not all of them are so godlike
is that they cause a problem, and there are those
out there, don't get me wrong, but you know I
was never that way. I know the code very well,
but I always would listen to an argument and if
they could make a plausible argument. I tried to never
impose my own personal wills. I tried to use, you know,
some my knowledge of the location that I was in
and tried to work with them.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, the last one is wet location.
Speaker 1: A bit of a change, a little bit for the
twenty twenty three as far as the structure in it,
a little easier to understand the way. It's not just
one rambling thing. It says wet location. It says a
location that is.
Speaker 2: One or more of the following.
Speaker 1: Okay, the first one is unprotected and exposed to weather
common sense number two. Or the next thing is subject
to saturation with water or other liquids. Obviously, if it
can be saturated and it's subject to it, then again
exposed outside obviously, next underground, whether it's something's in a
raceway underground or ran direct buried underground, it is considered
a wet location.
Speaker 2: Period.
Speaker 1: I get so many people that send me comments and say, well,
liquid tite. That's a reason they call it liquid tighte
that outside it is, it is not a wet location.
And I get that people will say that to me
all the freaking time, and I go, it is absolutely
a wet low. And then the next thing is it's
almost like they don't read the code right or choose
not to read the code.
Speaker 2: Then I end up having to.
Speaker 1: Go through this explanation, say, you know what what you
need to do is you know you need to go
read So it's above grade, liquid tight and it's in
a raceway.
Speaker 2: Go to three hundred dot nine. What does three hundred
dot nine say?
Speaker 1: Says where raceways are installed in wet locations above grade,
outside is a wet location, right, the interior of these
raceways shall be considered to be wet locations. It says
insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways and wet locations
above grade shall comply with three ten dot ten C.
And we've had this conversation as well with people where
I've tried to explain to them about stripping out the
conductors of NM cable and again in three ten dot
ten C you don't see anything here, especially when they argue, well,
it's THHGGN, and I remind them that the seven to
nineteen standards says that the construction of the wire inside
of a non metallic sheath cable has to be similar
to the construction, the insulation thicknesses and all that stuff.
It doesn't have any markings, but they want to argue
to they're blue in the faith that you could use
those conductors even though they don't have the markings. And
as you saw right here, it's a wet location above grade.
If you strip out those conductors and stick them in
a liquid tite, it's still required by three to ten
ten C for wet location to have conductors that meet
this list. And you don't see THHGN anywhere on here, right.
You just see products with a W in the in
the nomenclature right, So again you could they can argue
it inuntil they're blue in the face. And some jurisdictions
can have modifications and they're just asking for trouble. I'm
the kind of guy that, you know what, when a
jurisdiction approves something that they're not supposed to, and just
because they obviously have people that I guess lobby for
it in the area, builders or whoever, or people that
whine enough that the localities change their ruling and put
it in writing, that's all great, that's all good until
you get in trouble or something happens, and the moment
that they put that allowance or that modification in writing,
they have just increased their liability. And you, as an electrician,
have to realize that I'm not going to listen to
what they say. I'm going to use a product that's
supposed to be in there for the NEC because the
state or the inspectors will throw you under the bus.
Speaker 2: So I mean, everybody's there.
Speaker 1: To protect their interest, right, They're not there to protect you.
Speaker 2: You need to do what's right.
Speaker 1: Even if some modification says it's okay, why would you
want to do that? Why would you want to strip
out the conductors because that's what's in your truck. Come on,
you gotta work smarter. You really do have to work smarter,
and you do not in this litigious world we live in.
You don't want to raise your exposure. Okay, but you
do you boo, is what I always say. But also
the next question they say, well, what about raceways underground?
Well then they would go to three hundred dot five
and they go in three hundred dot five B. And
again I'm in the twenty twenty three EC. It says
the interior of enclosures or raceways installed underground shall be
considered to be wet locations. And again remind you that
the insulated conductors are cables installed in these enclosures or
raceways underground have to have the markings, have to meet
three ten dot ten c folks, okay, And again it's
going to be have to have a type of insulation
that is rated for a wet location. And the THHN
does inside of an NM cable, whether you strip it
out or not, it's not rated for that. So that
should totally squash that. Even if if a jurisdiction says
I'm okay with it, my recommendation is don't because you're
gonna get no help from the manufacturer. You're gonna get
no help from anybody. A code expert not gonna help you.
And I can just tell you my experience. For example,
in the state of Texas, the jurisdiction can say they're
okay with something, but at the end of the day,
if the state steps in, state ain't gonna give a damn.
The jurisdiction doesn't care, they're out of it. It's the
poor electrician that's going to be left holding the bag
and the state's gonna say. I don't care what that
jurisdiction said. This is what we enforce and we don't
have any amendment to that. Just be careful, That's all
I can say, folks. So we know for a fact
that race ways outside above grade or below grade are
a wet location. Enclosures outside below grade or wet locations.
A NIMA three R panel outside inside of that panel
is not a wet location. That's why it's a name
of three are Okay, A lot of big confusion on
that as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is why.
Speaker 1: This is why that panel has to have that NEMAL
rating on it for its location exposure. Okay, all right, anyway,
enough of that, Okay, So getting back to the you
know the definitions, and those are the definitions.
Speaker 2: Again, you have to work with your HJ. Some of
this is clean cut.
Speaker 1: I personally any basement that's unfinished, but the ceiling choices are,
which is the floor joises for the room above If
their standard would and they're using insulation standard insallation, I
wouldn't consider it to be a wet location. I would
expect that those walls would, if they're below grade, have
some type of treatment on them, I would consider that
dry location.
Speaker 2: Okay, so not all basements.
Speaker 1: If I had a basement there was partially submerged underground
and the other there wasn't. On the other side, there
was evidence of moisture down the walls, there's evidence of
something like that, then maybe I can make that judgment.
But typically I probably would not in new construction, and
that's typically what we're talking about here in the nec
outside run underneath the canopies. Obviously it's not gonna be
a subject to physical damage. It's up high, it's being
run up. But if it's open, I might consider that
a damp location rather than a dry location. You close
that off, you put a ceiling on it, and it's
closed up in there, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Consider that a dry location. You run it in the walls,
you close those walls up.
Speaker 1: On an outside porch, I'm going to consider that a
dry location. Even if it's no even if it's just
screened in porch, If the walls are framed up and
it has a finish on it and the wirings inside
the wall, I'm gonna consider that a dry location. That's
just me now, that might be that might apply to
the actual wiring method. But then you could have an
inspector that looks at and says, I get that. That
is not my problem. My problem is the receptacles are
now located in a damp or wet location, and I
want to have at least have the rating on those,
and so you could run into all.
Speaker 2: Those types of situations.
Speaker 1: And the beauty of the NEC is that in this case,
when it comes to dry, wet and damp, the ambiguity
of it allows that to be used anywhere in the country,
and the local jurisdiction are the ones that get to
kind of work with it and give their interpretation and
work with the contractor to come to a happy decision.
Speaker 2: I know you hate it.
Speaker 1: You hate it when the code's not totally black and white,
but then when it is totally black and white, you
hate it then too. Okay, but it is what it
is and it ain't never going to change. All right,
all right, folks, hopefully you got something out of that.
We'll catch you on another episode of Let's Ask Paul.
Hopefully that gave you a little bit of clarity. And again,
wherever you're at in the country, inspectors, contractors.
Speaker 2: Please work together. Electrical inspectors. Please.
Speaker 1: You may be in a jurisdiction where you don't have
to give a code reference when you reject somebody, but
you know what, raise your game. Let them know you're
a professional. You do this for a living. It is
truly a profession to be an inspector. So always justify
your fails with code references so that the damn electrician
knows what to fix and doesn't have to try to
pick your brain. Okay, And it makes you look bad
as an inspector because if you're too broad, then they
don't know what to fix, and you look like you
really don't know what you're talking about in your reaching
and you really can't put yourself in a position of
strength during a negotiation. Okay, Anyway, until next time, folks,
Stay safe, God bless, and hopefully you'll catch me on
another episode of Let's Ask Paul, as well as Master
the NEC podcast, all of which are available from our
free mobile app over on over on fast track system
dot com.
Speaker 2: Stay safe, God bless,