1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Ford, host of The Good Trouble Show. Fellow Americans,

2
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,720
members of Congress, the brilliant entrepreneurs and researchers, and yes,

3
00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:14,000
President Trump and Elon, this is your wake up call.

4
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,160
For a quarter century, the International Space Station or ISS

5
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,800
has been our zero gravity workshop, hosting more than three

6
00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:29,039
thousand experiments that Earth's gravity simply can't handle. Up there,

7
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,560
we're growing lab made retinas to restore site, printing human

8
00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,799
tissue for future organ transplants, and forging semiconductor crystals so

9
00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:45,240
flawless they could turbocharge the next wave of AI microgravity

10
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:50,039
chops literally years off drug development, and yields fiber optics

11
00:00:50,039 --> 00:00:55,200
that might beam data across oceans without gulping power. Every

12
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,280
one of those breakthroughs carries a price tag and a flag,

13
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:06,400
and right now that flag is ours. But China's space

14
00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:10,959
station is online and courting partners who will swap secrets

15
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:18,280
for lab time. If we choke ISS funding or ground

16
00:01:18,359 --> 00:01:25,560
launches over politics, we don't just lose bragging rights. We

17
00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:34,000
hand Beijing literally a trillion dollar bonanza in biotech, chips

18
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:39,439
and energy, plus the national security adge that comes with it.

19
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,079
I want all of you watching to picture the day

20
00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:51,560
we're forced to import Chinese grown organs, Chinese biopharma, and

21
00:01:51,760 --> 00:02:00,799
Chinese quantum chips because because we flinched first. So here's

22
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,280
the mission. Pick up the phone, call your representatives and

23
00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:09,680
tell them. Pulling back from the ISS is the biggest

24
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:15,919
unforced error the United States of America could make. This

25
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,560
is the moment to expand ISS access, not shrink it,

26
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,680
and to ramp up launch cadence and build new orbital

27
00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:31,919
platforms so our scientists, our startups, and our warfighters always

28
00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:37,759
have a lab bench in the sky. So President Trump,

29
00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:43,960
elon Musk, use your launch keys to lift us higher,

30
00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:51,599
not leave us grounded for literally decades to come. The

31
00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:54,919
high ground of the twenty first century is two hundred

32
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,960
and fifty miles up, and the nation that holds it

33
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,199
will shape the future. Let's make sure that nation is

34
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,639
and remains the United States of America. Our next two

35
00:03:08,759 --> 00:03:12,800
guests are certified movers and shakers at the crossroads of

36
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,439
science and big business. Doctor Donna Roberts, as a neuro

37
00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:22,599
radiologist turned deputy Chief scientist of the ISS National Lab,

38
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,479
leading NASA funded research on how long haul spaceflight rewires

39
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,360
the human brain She's joined by doctor Anna Brady Estevez,

40
00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:35,599
a top ranked deep tech investor and former NSF program

41
00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:39,879
director whose early bets in space, energy and AI startups

42
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,680
have already spawned multi billion dollar breakthroughs. Tonight, they're here

43
00:03:44,719 --> 00:03:48,919
to explain why keeping the International Space Station funded and

44
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,719
flying might be the smartest investment. Please, welcome to the show,

45
00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:59,400
doctor Anna Brady Estevez and doctor Donna Roberts. Doctor Roberts,

46
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:02,919
Doctor Yesavez, Welcome to the Good Trouble Show. How are

47
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,960
you all doing. We're good. Thanks for having us, excellent, excellent,

48
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,439
Well so in the introduction I touched on both of

49
00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:13,280
your professional backgrounds, but I understand that the two of

50
00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:16,279
you have had the opportunity to work together for quite

51
00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:20,920
some time and on several several occasions of the tongue tied.

52
00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,839
This morning, Doctor Brady Estavez tell us a bit about that. Well.

53
00:04:25,879 --> 00:04:27,519
Speaker 2: First of all, Matt, I just want to say so

54
00:04:27,639 --> 00:04:30,639
grateful to be on your show. You know, we appreciate

55
00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:34,040
that you're just doing so much to advance multiple areas

56
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,000
of advanced technology. So just what you and others are

57
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,959
doing to bring people together to really explore the art

58
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,839
of the possible. Very grateful, for what you're doing. So

59
00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:46,399
really appreciate being here today. And I just want to

60
00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:50,079
say that it has been such a pleasure to work

61
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,879
with Donna. And Donna and I think we can kind

62
00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:56,480
of feel welcome to talk over each other, so to

63
00:04:56,519 --> 00:04:59,639
interspers back and forth, but we actually got to know

64
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,759
each other of their while working on a US a

65
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,600
series of US government interagencies under the White House Office

66
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,399
of Science and Technology Policy. So I, you know, I

67
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,680
remember the first meeting that we were in together, and

68
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,519
then we decided to, uh, you know, kind of follow

69
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,639
up with an informal meeting in terms of what's possible

70
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,279
with the more shots on goals. So we can go

71
00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:24,920
into that in depth, don A. But do you want

72
00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:27,680
to just share a little bit on those those early meetings.

73
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, sure, And I and I, you know, want

74
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,279
to echo what Anna said. Really appreciate the opportunity to

75
00:05:35,319 --> 00:05:38,800
be here on the podcast today and really excited about

76
00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,800
this important topic that we're going to be talking about.

77
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,279
But yeah, yeah, so Anna and I met. I guess

78
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,879
it was about a couple of years or so ago.

79
00:05:52,519 --> 00:05:54,959
And as Anna mentioned, it was part of an inter

80
00:05:55,079 --> 00:06:01,560
agency group through the White House OSTP and and the

81
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,240
ideas that the International Space Station is this wonderful laboratory

82
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,600
in space that can be used to do research and

83
00:06:11,639 --> 00:06:15,519
technology development that can bring benefit back to Earth, and

84
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,319
that these benefits are not just for NASA, but for

85
00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:23,279
the whole of government and other government agencies and for

86
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,240
really the whole of humanity. And so we were on

87
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,920
this agency interagency group trying to find ways to work

88
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,319
together to really maximize the benefits of the International Space Station.

89
00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:39,560
Speaker 2: And something that I would add to there to kind

90
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,560
of give some context, because there were a few things

91
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,920
that were surprising, you know, and what are some of

92
00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:48,560
the things that really mark an acceleration of the space age.

93
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,079
So one is NASA and ISS have done so many

94
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,759
tremendous nights. So in that meeting there was really a

95
00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:01,240
highlighting of here's this exceptional put what's going to accomplished

96
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,000
so far? And there's been so much that's happened, you know,

97
00:07:05,079 --> 00:07:08,279
in these most recent two years since then. But that

98
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,439
was really the point where there was this highlighting of

99
00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:19,759
areas that are relevant to Earth, so biotechnology, advanced material, semiconductors, energy,

100
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,519
and there was an understand before that meeting it was

101
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,079
a bit more that most of at least the acknowledged

102
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:34,759
space activity really resided in NASA and ISS and you know,

103
00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,560
and they've done tremendous work, you know in that regard.

104
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,920
But then as there's this expansion of space technology and

105
00:07:41,959 --> 00:07:46,240
space opportunity terrestrially, what we were hearing from NASA was,

106
00:07:46,759 --> 00:07:49,519
you know, first they're doing so many extraordinary missions, so

107
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,639
you know, what are they going to do to bring

108
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,720
us to Mars in the very near term? Going back

109
00:07:54,759 --> 00:07:57,879
to the moon. You know, the presence in LEO and

110
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,839
what we were hearing was from some of our now colleagues.

111
00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:04,319
Space is a place and we need more of you

112
00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:07,959
from across the interagency to really show up because if

113
00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:11,680
it transforms the pharmaceutical model, well, how does that fit

114
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,279
into NASA's scope of responsibilities, you know, where where they're

115
00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:17,839
focused on the Moon and Mars, and are they responsible

116
00:08:17,959 --> 00:08:21,680
for US dominance of pharmaceuticals? Not really, you know, that's

117
00:08:21,839 --> 00:08:28,120
that's a big ask. You know, agencies like DHHS, nih FDA,

118
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,600
MSF to a certain extent energy dominance, you know, to

119
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,639
the extent there are materials, to what extent does DOE

120
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,000
and NSF and others d O D get involved. So

121
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,759
there was really that call for more agencies to become

122
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,159
much more active in space, and I guess that's kind

123
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,120
of where we took things from there, But it was

124
00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:54,960
really an inflection point meeting where we also said how

125
00:08:55,039 --> 00:08:56,720
much more can be done? So I think the more

126
00:08:56,799 --> 00:08:59,639
shots on goal approach, which we could go into as

127
00:08:59,639 --> 00:09:02,720
an excit sample of that, but really that catalyzing how

128
00:09:02,759 --> 00:09:04,799
do we do things together to achieve more?

129
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: In LEO understood? So, doctor Roberts, I want to kind

130
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,320
of take us a few steps back because I think

131
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,120
in general there tends to be a sort of a

132
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,440
lack of awareness by a decent amount of the public

133
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,279
as far as what is going on up in space

134
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,840
with our space program. So, as the deputy Chief Scientist

135
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,480
of the ISS, and do I have your title right?

136
00:09:29,279 --> 00:09:29,759
Speaker 2: ISS?

137
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,159
Speaker 1: National Laboratory, National Laboratories? What is the ISS and what

138
00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:38,480
is its purpose? When was it built? Just kind of

139
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,320
let's pretend I've never even heard of the ISS before?

140
00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:42,879
What is it? Yeah?

141
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,639
Speaker 3: Certainly, and I think you know and your point there

142
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,399
is the government a lot of people not being aware

143
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,840
of what we're achieving in space, and so I think

144
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:59,240
it's real important to educate here. The International Space Station

145
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:05,000
is the can arguably be considered one of humanity's greatest

146
00:10:05,039 --> 00:10:12,120
technological achievements. It's a collaboration between fifteen different countries, a partnership.

147
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,679
It's a series of modules and habitats that were assembled

148
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,399
in space in low Worth orbit. That lower orbit is

149
00:10:21,399 --> 00:10:25,679
approximately two hundred and fifty miles above the Earth is

150
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:33,759
where the space station is orbiting, and it was the

151
00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:38,279
first assembly began in December of nineteen ninety eight, and

152
00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:42,080
it took about ten years ten years to completely build

153
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:48,240
the space station. It became first continuously human occupied in

154
00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:51,759
the year two thousand, So for twenty five years now

155
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,320
humans have been continuously living in Low Worth orbit. I

156
00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:00,679
mean think about that. That's a whole generation of of

157
00:11:00,799 --> 00:11:03,840
people who have only known a time when there are

158
00:11:04,519 --> 00:11:10,200
human human beings living continuously in low Earth orbit. So

159
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,240
so it's it's a remarkable achievement. Humans live and work

160
00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:19,320
on the space station. They conduct research and technology development,

161
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,639
and I am excited about going into some of the

162
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,879
examples of what's been achieved on the on the space

163
00:11:25,919 --> 00:11:30,919
station as we move forward. But they also conduct research.

164
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,919
The public commonly thinks of doing research, and space is

165
00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:41,000
moving towards the Moon and Mars and NASA's exploration mission.

166
00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:43,919
But there are also many examples of research that's done

167
00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:47,600
in space that brings benefits back to humans here on Earth,

168
00:11:48,159 --> 00:11:51,000
which I'm excited to talk about. And then also just

169
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,360
the International Space Station is a great inspiration for the

170
00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:01,480
next generation to go into STEM STEM career years and

171
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,799
and just really to inspire imagination and what we as

172
00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:11,559
humans can do and further exploration.

173
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 1: And doctor Roberts and my again, my apologies for kind

174
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,559
of these simplistic questions, but but for instance, how many

175
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,720
people are typically on the space station at any given time?

176
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

177
00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:26,759
Speaker 1: How long are they up there? It's like an individual

178
00:12:26,759 --> 00:12:27,639
they go up there.

179
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly. So for example, right now, there are seven

180
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:38,080
seven people on the space station, and and that's the

181
00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:45,720
crews are composed of NASA astronauts, European astronauts, and Russian cosmonauts.

182
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,600
And and in next month there's going to be a

183
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,320
visiting crew of four individuals, private individuals who are going

184
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,639
to fly up on a private astronaut mission, the axiom

185
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,840
or mission, And so they'll be visiting the space station

186
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,600
for approximately two weeks. So at that point in time,

187
00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:10,080
there will be eleven people in the space station, And

188
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:13,240
just to kind of put this into perspective, the space

189
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:17,039
station is about the size of a football field if

190
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,879
you look at it from uh So there are solar

191
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,679
arrays that are attached to the space station on either side,

192
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,320
which which are pretty large. So it's about the size

193
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,759
of a football field. But the inside love Wolum is

194
00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:33,600
about the size of a five or six bedroom house.

195
00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

196
00:13:34,279 --> 00:13:39,639
Speaker 3: Okay, so think about eleven people in a five bedroom house.

197
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and what is the length of time again

198
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:44,440
that they're generally all together?

199
00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 2: The level the type of capacity we want to have

200
00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:51,080
for all not just the United States, but all of

201
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,879
our nations entrepreneurs and scientists. This is something that Donna

202
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,919
and I and the Interagency have really worked to convey

203
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,440
as we look up to put orders of magnitude assets,

204
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,600
what we have versus what we have today as opposed

205
00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:06,639
to create a gap.

206
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: Now, Anna, you've worked Do you mind if I call

207
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:09,799
you Anna?

208
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:11,519
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?

209
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:15,399
Speaker 1: Okay? So you've worked with the inter Agency, NASA and

210
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,399
ISS among others. Before we dive into microgravity research, which

211
00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:22,000
I have to tell you I have no idea what

212
00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:25,840
microgravity is. Obviously I'm guessing it's smaller than regular gravity

213
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,320
microgravity research. Could you speak to us more about the

214
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,120
importance of funding of science and innovation and the key

215
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,000
role some of the teams you've been a part of

216
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,200
have played and what is the return on investment on innovation?

217
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 2: Thank you? I mean, I think this is a great

218
00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:50,320
and very important time to be having this discussion because

219
00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,639
many Americans, many people around the world are looking at

220
00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,320
things like, how do we provide for more people, how

221
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,639
do we provide for an aging population, you know, how

222
00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:04,360
do we ensure high quality of life for our children,

223
00:15:04,799 --> 00:15:08,200
how do we bring medical benefits you know, advanced energy,

224
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,720
so many of these solutions. What does the future of

225
00:15:10,799 --> 00:15:15,559
AI look like? And the United States historically has very

226
00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:19,720
much led an innovation. The United States government has been

227
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,840
a major part of that. And going forward, there's opportunity

228
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,720
for the United States to continue to lead. And in

229
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,600
terms of doing that, we have the ability to really

230
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,159
catalyze this through both the US government but also through

231
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,000
the private sector. So the team that I've come out

232
00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:44,000
of at NSF has been one that has taken over

233
00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:48,279
the last forty eight years. NSF initiated the government's sbir

234
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,279
STTR program, and that program from just three point six

235
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,000
billion dollars of funding has gone on to catalyze. And

236
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,879
I'm going to give a very large range here. And

237
00:15:58,879 --> 00:16:01,440
the reason why is some of these market caps with

238
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,600
regards to fluctuations on tariffs, you know, economic cycles, you know,

239
00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:08,440
they can be they can change on these large companies

240
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,320
by you know, tens of billions of dollars three seventy

241
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,360
billion on the low end, half a trillion, you know,

242
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,559
in terms of recent numbers that I've pulled in recent

243
00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:24,639
months while still rolled, so that's publicly visible. The NSF awards,

244
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:26,919
what they're worth in pitchbook, you know, and some of

245
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,519
a couple of those companies, you know, somewhere, we're in

246
00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:32,919
the tens of billions. Qualcomm you know is you know,

247
00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:36,639
one hundred plus, you know, between the hundred billion and

248
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,440
two hundred billion I need given time. So these are

249
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,960
the highest performing investments. When you talk about making investments

250
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,480
in science and innovation, the level of job creation is exceptional.

251
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:50,440
Speaker 3: You know.

252
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 2: Over the past I've been part of a team of

253
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,360
about twenty people that over the past ten years I

254
00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:02,440
think has has catalyzed seventy billion in marketcap. And I've

255
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,359
been involved, you know, in seventeen and a half billion

256
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,279
of that. So it's just there are these teams of

257
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,799
people that support entrepreneurs. In many cases, these entrepreneurs are

258
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,839
told in the early days, this is never going to work,

259
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,519
this is never going to happen, and then they go

260
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,440
on to build extraordinarily useful technologies that improve lives, whether

261
00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:27,960
it's in health, whether it's in energy AI. And we see,

262
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,279
you know, coming from that standpoint of supporting these very

263
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,319
high value, high growth, societally impactful companies, that micro gravity

264
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,240
increasingly is expected to be core to that. So the

265
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:46,319
importance of having access to that game changing advantage. Right,

266
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,920
So if you think about, you know, how how do

267
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,480
you advance technology without having access to computation, How do

268
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:57,880
you advance it without having robotics in manufacturing and autonomy?

269
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,440
You know, throughout the years, how do you work with electricity? Well,

270
00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:08,319
now that we're seeing microgravity brings advantage for pharmaceuticals, for biomaterials,

271
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:14,599
for semiconductors, and for energy technologies, many of us firmly

272
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,480
believe that this is going to be something that a

273
00:18:17,599 --> 00:18:22,480
large percentage of our biotechnologists, our material scientists are going

274
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:25,079
to need access to, not just to lead, but to

275
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,960
be able to compete, So we need to put up

276
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:30,119
much more than the volume of a five to six

277
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:30,839
bedroom house.

278
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: Understood, doctor Roberts, what as your radiologist, does I understand? Correct? Correct?

279
00:18:38,759 --> 00:18:43,200
So from a medical perspective, what are the advantages of

280
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:49,960
studying medicine or medical related experiments in space in low

281
00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:53,680
Earth orbit? What microgravity? How does that figure into it?

282
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:58,240
What is it that you can't do here on Earth

283
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,400
that you can do in lear and low Earth orbit.

284
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me just step back and kind of

285
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,000
define what microgravity is, because I think a lot of

286
00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:13,440
people probably don't understand that. So even so you think

287
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,599
about astronauts on the space station and you picture them

288
00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:19,880
floating in space, and so you think maybe they're not

289
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,359
experiencing gravity, but that's not true. So even at the

290
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,000
distance from the Earth that the astronauts are at, there's

291
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:32,839
still experience almost a full gravity, almost as much gravity

292
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,079
as they would experience as if they were on Earth.

293
00:19:35,519 --> 00:19:39,319
But the differences is that the space station is an

294
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,519
orbit around the Earth, so it's actually this state of

295
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:49,359
constant freefall. So so there's still gravity there, but it's

296
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,839
counterbalanced by being in the state of freefall. And so

297
00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:56,960
that's why we use the term micro gravity. It's not

298
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:03,559
really uh, you know, meant to be a numeric term.

299
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,839
It's really just meant to represent that.

300
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,599
Speaker 2: It's it's this.

301
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 3: Experience of our sensation of a very low gravity. And

302
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,880
what that does, to get back to the question that

303
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,640
you were asking me, is if you're in this constant freefall,

304
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,359
then you're not experiencing multiple forces that you experience here

305
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,640
on Earth. So you're not so you or multiple phenomena

306
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,880
that you experience here on ours. So a lot of

307
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,119
processes here on Earth are gravity dependent. So you think

308
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:43,160
about taking some fluid and putting some solid substance in that,

309
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,680
like say salt or whatever, and you shake it up, well,

310
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,359
the heart, the heavier substances are going to go to

311
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,559
the bottom and the lighter substances are going to float

312
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:55,880
on the top. And so you think about that's that's

313
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:01,920
the process of sedimentation and moucey and and those processes

314
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,079
are not experienced in a microgravity environment, for example, And

315
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:12,599
then that changes how substances react in microgravity, so you

316
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,599
can have more uniform mixing of substances, and so then

317
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:23,000
that can be used scientifically other other processes. If you're

318
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:28,720
if you're looking at human bodies and cells and cells

319
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:34,079
from human tissues and you're trying to create three D tissues,

320
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,279
you get more. If you take cells and put them

321
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,359
in a plate a plate here on Earth, they're just

322
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,119
going to fall down to the bottom. But if you

323
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,039
have them in a microgravity environment, they're going to form

324
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,119
more three D complex structures. And so that's very useful

325
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,079
for someone that's trying to do medical research and space

326
00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:58,880
and other things that the cells won't be hitting up

327
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:04,680
against each other like they are in the gravity environment

328
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,000
of Earth. And another thing is that if you're trying

329
00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:15,359
to uncover unique biological processes, the one of the things

330
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,119
that you can do is take it into a microgravity environment.

331
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,880
Because here on Earth, if you think about all the

332
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,240
conditions on Earth that life evolved in. You think about temperature,

333
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:32,519
you think about atmosphere, humidity, all that has changed over

334
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:34,960
the course of evolution, but the one thing that hasn't

335
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:39,000
changed is gravity. So gravity has been a constant throughout

336
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:44,480
all of life on Earth. And so by taking something

337
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:49,319
the living system, into a microgravity environment, you for the

338
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,599
first time manipulate this very unique variable. And so it

339
00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:59,960
unlocks these key pathways to biological processes that you wouldn't

340
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,920
see here on Earth. So this is just a name

341
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,839
a few, and we can get into specific examples. Protein

342
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,119
crystal growth is another area that we can talk about

343
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,039
as well, that the microgravity environment plays a key role

344
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,880
in in promoting this research and technology development.

345
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: And in addition to you know what what doctor Roberts

346
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:25,359
was speaking about in terms of microgravity, why why do

347
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,359
we need space based assets?

348
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:36,559
Speaker 2: In general, big background is in investments and also in

349
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,880
competitive advantage. So I would say, you know, we always

350
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,000
get the question, you know, why go to space because

351
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,599
sometimes people think, you know, and I want to convey

352
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,640
respect for exploration. I think that's that's valuable into itself,

353
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,200
but they want to see where does the rubber hit

354
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,920
the road? Why does this matter for us on Earth?

355
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,079
And so it really comes back to those terrestrial advantages. So,

356
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,160
you know, an example from one of my co founding

357
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,279
partners at American Deep Tech, doctor Kat Jamison. Doctor Jamison

358
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,319
right now is developing what might end up as the

359
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,720
first or one of the first drugs to be developed

360
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:26,720
in space, rebecinev, and that development process was accelerated through microgravity.

361
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,640
So where on Earth. And I know Kat's eager to

362
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,440
extend that advantage to other researchers and other companies. So

363
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:37,920
the and there's some other good people working on this

364
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000
as well. But that advantage of microgravity, you know, in

365
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:46,440
this micro company example is, you know, when we get

366
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,640
down to microeconomics, is the aging of a tumor, you know,

367
00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:55,640
in nine days in microgravity is comparable to one to

368
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:58,759
ten years, depending on the type of cancer in space.

369
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,519
So when you think of about the speed with which

370
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:06,319
you can iterate on drug development and effectiveness, there's just

371
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,640
no comparison. I mean, you're not gonna want to wait,

372
00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:12,920
you know, terrestrially to get that data, you need access

373
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,480
to those assets. And you know, and so while there

374
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,000
have been some major discoveries you know on the ISS

375
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:22,559
over the last over the last two years, both on

376
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,519
the biotech side, you know, on the advanced material side,

377
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:29,599
and when you see that, you go from saying, okay,

378
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,799
well you've got cat you with aspara, You've got others

379
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,759
like Nicole Wagner with LAMB Division in terms of developing

380
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:42,039
you know, layer by layer retinas. So you know, so

381
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,759
a biological replacement tissue that you wouldn't be able to develop,

382
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,640
you know, in terms of those layers terrestrially, so something

383
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,000
you know that the hope is that that cures certain

384
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:57,680
forms of blindlessness. Uh. You need access not just for

385
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:01,720
these leaders like Nicole you know and cat on the

386
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:05,519
biotech side, and there are others like Sachi Bioworks as well,

387
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:08,200
But you get to the point where you say, we

388
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,680
want to signific I don't know whether it's all or

389
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,480
a significant percentage of our biologists to have access to that.

390
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:21,000
Olivia Whole's house with Roodium Scientific, another entrepreneurive fundedge she

391
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,519
has put up the first in space biobank. DARPA was

392
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,240
also very active in funding them early on that ability

393
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,880
to really iterate at a much higher throughput to get

394
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,880
to those biological winds, uh, to to really attack neurodegenerative disease,

395
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,920
cardiac disease, you know, tissue replacement. As we said cancer

396
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,839
CATS is a cancer kill switch. That's what rebecseneb is

397
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,720
intending to be is a cancer life saving you know,

398
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:55,359
or life enhancing pharmaceutical. So we just really want to

399
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:57,599
accelerate it, and it's going to take more than the

400
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,920
volume you know of a small home or a large home,

401
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,039
and so you want to we want to be putting

402
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,680
up large scale biotechnology factories, large scale fabs for semiconductors

403
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,799
and advanced materials, catalysts for hydrogen, you know, and for

404
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,759
other you know, for energy storage, all sorts of things

405
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:21,440
that the race is really on to build out something

406
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,279
that's competitively advantage and complementary to what's possible on Earth.

407
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: So this is a question to both of you. So

408
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,200
you know, we're talking commercial R and D under microgravity

409
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,960
conditions and the biotech side to me like that completely

410
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,599
makes sense, but can either of you go into more

411
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,799
detail in terms of like how this would assist in

412
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,720
the development of say like advanced materials, semiconductor energy, those

413
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,240
are the sorts of areas and sort of having a

414
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,200
hard time wrapping my head around how microgravity helps move

415
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,240
the ball forward with development of those those technologies.

416
00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly, So just this past year we've had some

417
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,640
pretty amazing developments in those areas. So I had mentioned

418
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,400
earlier the problem of sedimentation, and if you're trying to

419
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,400
develop a crystal, that's a problem.

420
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: You want the.

421
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: Material to be more uniform, and on Earth it tends

422
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,480
to separate out but in space you can get much

423
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:28,480
more uniform material and so how does that how how

424
00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:31,640
does that apply? So, for example, if you're trying to

425
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:41,039
draw fiber optic cables. Now, fiber optic cables are are

426
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:47,640
really unique in that they require proximately are utilized approximately

427
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:53,359
one percent of energy utilization globally. That's to transmit signals

428
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,200
and we're only getting, you know, as more and more

429
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,759
becoming more and more interconnected, it's required more and more

430
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:03,480
fibroptic cables, and so anything that you can do to

431
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,720
reduce that energy usage in fiber optic cables is a

432
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:10,119
big deal. And the way you do that is you

433
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,799
have more uniform fibers because every impurity in that fiber

434
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,839
is going to cause energy loss. And so the idea

435
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,319
is if you have more uniform fibers you can and

436
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,599
you draw them in space, you can get much higher

437
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,039
quality fibers. And so that was just demonstrated this past year.

438
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:38,359
So that's one area. Another area in advanced materials is semiconductors.

439
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:43,799
So it's a big area right now. It's important for

440
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,680
national security being able to manufacture high quality semiconductors. And

441
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,680
actually we're at the point now where where technology has

442
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,400
pushed and pushed the limit. It's called Moore's law, where

443
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:04,839
we get improvements every few years on the computing ability.

444
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:06,920
But we're at the point where we've pushed that so

445
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,440
far that even a defect at the atomic level has

446
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:16,319
impacts on performance of semiconductors. So we need much pure

447
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,559
semiconductor crystals. And the way to do that, again because

448
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:24,599
of these processes that we've been discussing, is in space.

449
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,599
So we shown there's over many studies that have been

450
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:35,599
conducted in crystal growth in space over the past few years,

451
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:41,640
is that space produces much purer crystals. Approximately eighty to

452
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,920
ninety percent of the crystals produced in space are of

453
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,599
higher quality than those produced here on Earth. So that's

454
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,920
another area that roberts.

455
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,359
Speaker 2: And just to add to that, I mean, so you know, Donna,

456
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,200
there was there was an article, you know, I think

457
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,720
about the great work done you know on the ISS.

458
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,839
It was called kicking Glass right, and it was that

459
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,119
was flawless photonic. So I was happy to have had

460
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:10,039
the opportunity to fund Flawless and I know ISS did

461
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:13,000
tremendous work with them. But just as you were speaking,

462
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720
you know, the ability to draw kilometers worth of z

463
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,359
bland fiber you know on the ISS you know, and

464
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,400
just the ability to and there are other companies like

465
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960
app Sidle you know, who are going after similar things.

466
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:29,559
So and just the promise, as you said, from an

467
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,519
energy standpoint and also from an information security standpoint, you know,

468
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,759
of the potential for that lower loss rate and some

469
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:41,039
would say, would it be possible to get repeaterless trans

470
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,680
oceanic transmission of data or less repeaters? Right, So that's

471
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:52,319
very exciting and contrasting the telometer plus you know, cable

472
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,279
possible versus you know, very very short lengths I mean

473
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:59,359
well under one hundred feet, much shorter than that, you know,

474
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,279
that are kind of drawn from these these towers terrestrially.

475
00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:07,359
So that's one. And then the wide band gap semiconductors,

476
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,039
you know, the different form factors and just something that

477
00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:12,279
you know, obviously when we talk about diamonds, we're talking

478
00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:15,359
about performance. We're not talking about blame, but just you know,

479
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,799
the ability to turn CO two to diamonds and just

480
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,359
that the the roadmap for that is multi inch, you know,

481
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,160
in terms of you know, what's achievable and the level

482
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,680
of purity on that crystallization, a level of high performance,

483
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:34,079
you know, really across a wide range of materials. On

484
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:39,160
the semiconductor side, it's just far far better crystallization and

485
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,519
crystals that aren't achievable on Earth. So that's something that's

486
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:47,559
been very important on the pharmaceutical side, the ability to

487
00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:50,079
get some of these crystals that you know, you get

488
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:53,119
the seed crystal in space, you bring it down and

489
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,079
then you can amplify that growth from that seed crystal terrestrially.

490
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:02,279
But the ROI on this, you know, because interesting we're coming.

491
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:07,240
So much was accomplished from an exploration standpoint in space,

492
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:10,599
but now understanding what the ROI is. So when you

493
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:14,400
think about the cost of launch and on demand return,

494
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:16,599
I mean, there's still some work to do, you know,

495
00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:19,640
and SpaceX and others have done so much to bring

496
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,200
that down. But when you're talking about the value of

497
00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:27,119
a pharmaceutical API, you know, and how many people a

498
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,359
kilogram can serve, you know, and that life saving and

499
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,960
just the value that pharmaceutical or when you talk about

500
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,400
the value of hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars

501
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680
if you go from a kilogram of preform to an

502
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:47,119
advanced material, you know, like fiber optics, it's It's one

503
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:49,240
of these things that you say, you get the right

504
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:53,000
financial models in place, and the answer is put up

505
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:56,920
more of these assets as fast as possible, because those

506
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,279
who get production, you know, are going to lead in

507
00:33:59,319 --> 00:33:59,759
the market.

508
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: Doctor Roberts, give us another example of a success story

509
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,680
on the ISS in terms of medical research.

510
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 3: Okay, so just kind of following up on what Anna

511
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,760
was talking about there with protein crystal growth in the

512
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,360
pharmaceutical area. So, if you can grow these sea crystals

513
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,800
in space, you get new forms in the microgravity environment

514
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,840
that you can't develop here on Earth because of gravity.

515
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,039
But if you can grow them in space, get these

516
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:32,920
new forms and just take them back to Earth. You

517
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,320
wouldn't have to produce the drug product in space, but

518
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,400
you could just grow enough to act as a sea

519
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:42,119
crystal and then take that back to Earth. So I'll

520
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,719
give you an example. There's a drug called Keytruda. It's

521
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:51,480
a popular, very very well prescribed medication to treat cancer.

522
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:58,719
And if you so, we worked with we worked with

523
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,400
them to grow these crystals in space, and then they

524
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,119
took those back down to Earth. Here Mrke did and

525
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,519
then developed a new formulization, a new formula formulation for

526
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:15,480
their key truda. So because these crystals were more uniform,

527
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,800
we talked to again about how you can achieve more

528
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,559
uniformity in space. Because these crystals were more uniform, that

529
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,039
allowed this new formulation which can just be injected under

530
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:31,000
the skin instead of having to be injected through the veins.

531
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,320
And because of the uniformity, you get more efficient release

532
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,679
of the drug and patients. And so what that meant

533
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,920
practically is that patients who have cancer who would typically

534
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,519
have to go and sit in their doctor's office for

535
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,760
thirty minutes to have this drug infused into their veins

536
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:52,960
instead can just get a shot or even maybe take

537
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,519
the shot at home one day with this new formulation.

538
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:01,360
And so Key true to after creating this new formula,

539
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360
took it through clinical trials, just finished Phase three clinical

540
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:11,480
trials and is expecting FDA approval for for for taking

541
00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:15,440
the strugg to the market in September of this year. Wow,

542
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,000
that's going to open up sale and I'm expected to

543
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,559
be in the six billion dollar range for this new drug.

544
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,199
Speaker 1: So this this development in terms of taking key trudah

545
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,239
from being you know, intravenous to uh intramuscular, that would

546
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,920
not have happened had it not been for the research

547
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,440
done and on the ISS.

548
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:38,079
Speaker 3: So the research that was done on the isls helped

549
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:40,840
them unlock this new form of the crystal that they

550
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,719
could then use to create this new formulation.

551
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:48,079
Speaker 1: Anna, you were going to add something.

552
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: To say that, it's just remarkable that we're at such

553
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,039
an inflection point where this great work, you know, with

554
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:55,360
Pillbox and with Mark and you know, kind of moving

555
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,440
from this, there's so much value in reformulation of existing drugs.

556
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,400
That was k true at the first with regards to

557
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,880
that Donna, in terms of reformulation, the first.

558
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:10,119
Speaker 3: To take it to mart to get through clinical promer.

559
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: So you've got the first in terms of reformulations. And

560
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:15,960
right now you have a couple you know, you have

561
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,920
at least a few companies a Sperra on the cancer side,

562
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,159
Sachi bio works as well on the on the degenerative

563
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,119
side that are going for the first new drugs. You know,

564
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:33,000
I believe it is Sachi Also, that's the new formulation

565
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:36,280
that's new. It's not a reformulation, it's a new, completely

566
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:36,840
new drug.

567
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: Wow.

568
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,039
Speaker 2: So we're starting to see that first wave of entrepreneurs

569
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:47,719
and scientists who were bringing forth developed in space medicines

570
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,880
that are expected to convey that, if they work out,

571
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,760
will convey interesting advantages.

572
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: So clearly the ISS is delivering in terms of things

573
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,400
to help humanity space exploration. I mean so many areas.

574
00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:06,800
But I understand that the ISS is actually set to

575
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,519
be diorbited in twenty thirty. Doctor Roberts tell us a

576
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:11,039
bit about that.

577
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's correct. We you know, the space station has

578
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:22,599
been in orbit for over twenty five years now, and

579
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,960
the parts weren't meant to last forever. So NASA's committed

580
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,320
to the space station through twenty thirty, and after that time,

581
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,079
the expectation is that there will be commercial space stations

582
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,920
developed by several different companies throughout the US have plans

583
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,360
for developing space stations and having them in orbit by

584
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,119
twenty thirty. But to make this possible, we have to

585
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:54,400
make the economic case for low worth orbit. There has

586
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,039
to be a reason for them to be there. So

587
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:59,440
all the things that Anna was talking about in these

588
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:04,559
examples that we're giving, we have to use the International

589
00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,960
Space Station, and it's the last few years to really

590
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:13,159
do that initial R and D so that whenever the

591
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:17,920
commercial space stations are placed in orbit, that they have

592
00:39:18,199 --> 00:39:23,559
they can have economic viability. So that's why this is

593
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:26,119
so critical. That's why these last few years of the

594
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:28,880
International Space Station is so critical for what we're trying

595
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:29,599
to do here.

596
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,159
Speaker 1: Now, doctor Roberts. With all of the budget slashing that

597
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:36,760
you hear about, you know, going on in Washington across

598
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,320
literally all nodes of government, is there pressure to cease

599
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,719
operations at the ISS earlier than the twenty thirty d commissioning.

600
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,599
Speaker 3: Well, that's technically, you know, not even going to be

601
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:53,239
feasible because it takes some time for the orbit to

602
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,320
DK and a de orbit vehicle has to be developed.

603
00:39:56,599 --> 00:39:59,719
You know, we don't want to recoastly let the International

604
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,639
Space Station DK and just crash onto the Earth somehouse.

605
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,719
All those details need to be worked out. But in

606
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,239
the meantime, it's important that we continue doing what we're

607
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,840
doing with International Space Station, continue this research and development

608
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,239
into these different areas so that the commercial space stations

609
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,400
have time to develop the facilities they need and get

610
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,159
them into orbit and carry on this work. It's critical

611
00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:31,000
that we do not lose our position and low Worth

612
00:40:31,079 --> 00:40:34,800
orbit or six or seed low Worth orbit to the.

613
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: Chinese because there is no there is no alternative available

614
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,920
to us other at the present time, other than the ISS. Correct.

615
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 3: So there are there are, Like I mentioned that there

616
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,000
are companies that are developing these next generation commercial space

617
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:57,199
stations which will have crew. But at the same time,

618
00:40:57,559 --> 00:40:59,440
you know, not everything that you want to do in

619
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,880
spaces to have a crew. We're learning more and more

620
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,920
how to make technology automated. So there are there's this

621
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:11,199
new market actually new companies that are coming up that

622
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:17,639
are providing access to lower orbit for uncrewed uncrewed capabilities

623
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,480
VARDA for example, who who is able to you can

624
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:26,519
take your payload to them and if it doesn't require

625
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:29,239
any interaction, you can fly it with them. And so

626
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,360
that's another option. So as we're moving into this next generation,

627
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,599
it's like, what is your product, how is it best

628
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:40,760
to be manufactured in space? And then let's choose the best.

629
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: Options understood Anna, So are there, let's say, to counter

630
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,719
pressure to exit the ISS early in terms of from

631
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,280
the United States perspective, are there alternative funding models that

632
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,519
could allow our involvement to continue without say, like the

633
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:04,320
government support, Like, what are potential funding models to keep

634
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,039
us in the game as long as we can continue

635
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:08,639
to use the ISS.

636
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,079
Speaker 2: Well, I think I would frame it, you know, in

637
00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:15,960
terms of what is the level of access that we

638
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:20,239
need to micro gravity and why right, so kind of

639
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,840
re anchoring, and it was very surprising, you know. So

640
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:29,400
we see these tremendous advantages coming out, potential cancer, life

641
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,960
saving drugs, if that all works out, you know, going

642
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,199
through FDA, fighting neurodegenerative illness, you know, things that are

643
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:39,719
really going to enable us to serve people in the

644
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,079
US and around the world, things that are important currently

645
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:45,559
and are going to be even more important, you know,

646
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,920
in serving you know, dignity and quality of life for

647
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:51,599
what's an aging population, both in the United States and

648
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:55,440
around the world. These are multi trillion dollar markets. So

649
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,320
the United States spends i think it's four trillion dollars

650
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:04,079
on healthcare annually. So one thing is expanding those markets.

651
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:07,719
Another thing is cost control, you know, and potentially lessening

652
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,000
you know, some of the financial burden you know that

653
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:12,480
the United States has in terms of providing you know,

654
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:16,119
that quality of care, that quality of life. So you know,

655
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,960
what we've said is the ISS is the size of

656
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,519
a home. So if you think about all these amazing

657
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,679
entrepreneurs and scientists around the country, if you think about

658
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,880
all these labs, be they corporate labs you know at universities,

659
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,880
and you just picture tremendous amount of terrestrial research and

660
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,960
access and then you say, here's a lab that for

661
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:47,239
some things is better, you know, And it's less about

662
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,199
it's being framed as a competition between is s and others.

663
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,039
We're really it's just we're so underweight in terms of

664
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:59,800
capacity to lead it, you know, in what has health

665
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:03,760
impacts and what are multi trillion dollar markets so we

666
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,760
need to put multi billions of dollars of investments in place.

667
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,920
So what are some of the things that are missing?

668
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:14,840
So a misconception, you know, certainly there are some entities.

669
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:20,159
We have some colleagues at NASA that are very commercially sophisticated,

670
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,320
but they they haven't always their mission has. They're not

671
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,360
coming from a history of let's serve and support business first.

672
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,599
And to be frank, sometimes NASA is getting they're gonna

673
00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:35,519
suit by contractors, right. So it's totally different standpoint than

674
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:38,679
say the SBA or the NSF. So we've listened to

675
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:43,280
people say, well, you know, if this very early business

676
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,320
starts to have commercial success, well we should stop supporting it.

677
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,159
And the answer is no, no, no, even large corporations

678
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:55,119
haven't historically, you know, in recent years put up that

679
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,039
high risk deep technology funding. That's something that federal government

680
00:44:59,079 --> 00:45:04,360
has done. A small subset of venture capital firms have

681
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,559
done that. You know, it's great to see them. Hopefully

682
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:08,360
we'll see more. That's something that we're trying to do.

683
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,320
But so there hasn't been that capital put in place.

684
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:14,559
So you know, we go, we went back to our

685
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:17,559
assecollagues and we said no, no, no, Doe you know

686
00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:21,719
they make these large you know, multi hundred million billion

687
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,880
dollar plus support, you know, or DoD does you know

688
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,119
billions of dollars support to aerospace companies that are highly mature,

689
00:45:29,199 --> 00:45:32,199
that have revenues, never mind something that's early on. So

690
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,400
if we think about just that disconnect in terms of

691
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,159
bringing that broad commercial understanding of until something takes off,

692
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,119
there does need to be that risk capital that's put

693
00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:46,960
in place, whether from the government or the private sector.

694
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,840
And when you're talking about large scale assets, let's get

695
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,519
serious about putting infrastructure finance in place. So one of

696
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:58,559
the drawbacks from what we've heard, you know, and the

697
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:01,559
UK is doing things up a project finance in place

698
00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:04,480
you know, I mean, you know, you could see what

699
00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:07,000
are the large corporations able to do in terms of

700
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:10,719
debt that they're able to unlock. But many of these startups,

701
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,480
you know, whether you know, and this goes for terrestrial

702
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:18,320
innovation as well. If they're putting together even terrestrially, like

703
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,760
a first of a kind three hundred million dollar pilot,

704
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:26,159
they're expected to come forward with three hundred million dollars. Right.

705
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,719
If you're putting up a stadium, you know some of

706
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,119
these stadiums in the United States, you know which we

707
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:34,159
love sports. That's great. You know you're talking over a

708
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:38,679
billion dollars. You're issuing municipal bonds, right, you're going out

709
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,920
for debt. If you buy a house for two hundred

710
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,519
k five hundred k a million dollars, there are people

711
00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:47,039
who buy it in cash. Most first time home buyers,

712
00:46:47,199 --> 00:46:50,400
they're putting down five percent or twenty percent. So if

713
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,280
you build a power plant, you're doing twenty percent debt.

714
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,880
I'm sorry, twenty percent equity eighty percent debt. So if

715
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,519
we don't, we need to have have the financial infrastructure

716
00:47:02,559 --> 00:47:08,360
in place to do LEO an off planet infrastructure finance

717
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,519
where investors put up twenty percent and then and then

718
00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:15,920
you do the balance in terms of debt, and whether

719
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,920
you do that on a project finance standpoint with a

720
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,800
risk adjusted rate, or whether you do that as part

721
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,000
of a portfolio. The difference between being able to make

722
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,599
that investment or not is going to be who wins,

723
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,079
you know, in these multi trillion dollar markets. The Chinese

724
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:33,199
have indicated, I mean that they're ready to put that

725
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,960
in place because they view this as basic, you know,

726
00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:40,239
they I was sitting next to somebody, you know at

727
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,079
the Johnna you were there at the National Academy of

728
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:47,159
Sciences when there was a space leader from the CCP,

729
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:50,039
who is who had been invited as a speaker. I

730
00:47:50,119 --> 00:47:51,800
happened to sit down next to the person that was

731
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,000
then empty seat in the room, and you know, started

732
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,559
to ask that Chinese space leader what's going on with

733
00:47:58,679 --> 00:48:01,679
your budget? They wouldn't tell me the buy they did say,

734
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,360
you know, I'm saying, hey, what's going on in the

735
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,159
dark sized moon? You know here? Like what do you

736
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:08,400
want to tell us? You know, we're we're pretty open

737
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,239
about our site. So didn't get a whole lot there.

738
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,039
Tried to do some strategy math. You know, maybe there

739
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:17,480
was information and misinformation. But what he did do was

740
00:48:17,559 --> 00:48:20,760
he looked, you know, kind of you know, in disdain

741
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:22,440
and said, you know, I'm not going to tell you

742
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,519
what our budget is, but I will say that when

743
00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:29,079
we look at putting up a space station for us,

744
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:32,039
that's like putting down a few kilometers of metro, you know,

745
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:35,480
kind of looking at us like, please people seriously. You know,

746
00:48:36,199 --> 00:48:39,239
we've got a trillion dollars of pavement outside you know,

747
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,159
of our homes, like we've got so we put infrastructure

748
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,880
out there all the time.

749
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: Uh.

750
00:48:46,599 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: I think what the ISS is and this is something

751
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,519
that we briefed the White House on was that the

752
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:55,559
ISS is a great you know, early of a kind,

753
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,440
you know, alongside the shuttle right where we say tremendous

754
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,280
thing is accomplished. It's like you've got this amazing inniac computer,

755
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,519
you know, and then do you do you shut down

756
00:49:06,599 --> 00:49:08,960
the inniact computer and say, well, something else is gonna

757
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,840
come later, or you say, do we build up the

758
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,199
nation's computational infrastructure. We need to build out the national

759
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:19,039
infrastructure for access to micro gravity because that's where we win.

760
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:21,320
And if we don't win there, China and others are

761
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,519
going to win there China and Russia. I mean, don

762
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:26,519
I think you might be able to speak to at

763
00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:28,679
least at a high level. You know that some other

764
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,039
countries have done more than we have in crystallization in space.

765
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we as as far as crystallization semiconductor crystals,

766
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:45,239
I mean, this work is so far behind and and

767
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,559
it's and it's not being done at the present, and

768
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:50,079
so it's an area that we really need to build

769
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:52,760
up on, particularly for national security, and we need to

770
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,679
bring bring that leadership UH to the US.

771
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: It's great to leap prog that infrashore sure because to

772
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,960
be frank, a lot of that production capacity is in

773
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,119
Asia today. So as we look to replace the global

774
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:10,760
infrastructure and semiconductors, it's a great time to leap frog

775
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,280
it and to make those investments aggressively.

776
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: So I want to want to jump back Anna. You

777
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,639
mentioned the Space Shuttle. So when I think of the

778
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:23,800
Space Shuttle, I think of its decommissioning and this this

779
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,599
kind of like technological gap that seemed to exist between

780
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,440
when the when the program was terminated versus when say

781
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:38,400
the commercial assets became available, namely SpaceX and and Blue Origin.

782
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,199
If the administration today were to decide, you know what,

783
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:47,639
we're we're cutting off funding to the ISS. We're you know,

784
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:49,800
you know, you know, pull out of this. It's going

785
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,559
away in five years anyway, How realistic would it be

786
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,599
to expect the private companies that are in existence today

787
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,039
to fill the gap left by the government exiting the

788
00:51:02,119 --> 00:51:04,920
ISS and that's no longer having a presence on there.

789
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,519
It can really beat both.

790
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: Of you, believer, you know, in what the private sector

791
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,280
is capable of. So I don't want to say that

792
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,480
the private sector can't do it, but I think that

793
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:19,280
they need to just show up and do it, you

794
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:20,599
know what I mean. So it's kind of like if

795
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:23,960
somebody says, if somebody came up to you, you know, so,

796
00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:28,360
do respect to the ISS. A tremendous asset, a globally

797
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,760
leading asset. So let's have the respect for that. Let's

798
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,079
realize there's been a lot of work that's gone into that,

799
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:38,360
and let's replace it with equal and more assets and

800
00:51:38,679 --> 00:51:42,000
higher performing assets. If somebody came to you today and said, listen,

801
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:43,960
your car is a little bit run down. You know,

802
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,719
the maintenance, you know, isn't you know, it's not really

803
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,280
working out. How about we just get rid of your

804
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,159
car tomorrow. You know your your family needs three cars,

805
00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:54,480
you've got one. You know you need ten cars, right,

806
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:56,960
you got one car for like your entire you know,

807
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,840
your entire community has one car. Right, let's get rid

808
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,599
of your one car. Because there's a better car that's

809
00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:06,559
coming out, you know, and just it's coming out. You know,

810
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,079
why not just have multiple vehicles? There's no you know,

811
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,039
retire it when you when you don't need the capacity.

812
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:16,800
We are so underweight in terms of capacity. So I

813
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,320
think we look for I would like to see the

814
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,039
like I said, the financial infrastructure in place. You know

815
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:27,679
that the that space X you know, continues to expand aggressively.

816
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,719
You know Stoke, you know the extent they get into

817
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,480
orbit later this year. You know, there's so many other

818
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,920
companies like the vast Acci, like, let's see more of

819
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,960
these assets come online. We're looking at the demand curve

820
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,800
for this should be so high. It's laughable when you

821
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:50,039
think about the acres of you know, terrestrial plants, right,

822
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:53,880
you know, the hundreds of thousands of square foot plants

823
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,039
terrestrially for production in various industries. And then you say

824
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:01,280
you've got something to say of a home. You know,

825
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,400
and you want to take that down. I mean, when

826
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,800
you have ten times that capacity, you know, and you've

827
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,920
got everything at steady state and performing, you know, then

828
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,880
you take it down until then, you know, is there

829
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,840
really an issue you know, in keeping You know, it's

830
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,079
an expensive asset running, you know, so we hope that

831
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:21,239
there's going to be more cost efficient ones, but you

832
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,719
can't what's at stake in terms of losing in these

833
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,480
much higher value markets of biotechnology, of advanced materials and energy.

834
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,800
You know, it's just it's so high risk that you

835
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,199
would never you just can't afford to lose your access.

836
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,880
And I don't personally believe that there's an impediment to

837
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,599
you know, somebody like SpaceX becoming an in space lab.

838
00:53:47,639 --> 00:53:50,480
I don't think they need to take you know, I

839
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,199
don't need to. I don't think others need to come

840
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,559
offline for that to be tremendously successful, some of these

841
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:58,880
other in space assets, because what we need to be

842
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,280
doing is just showing these biotechnologists and these advanced material

843
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,199
scientists you can get so much more done in space,

844
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:08,280
and then you're going to see orders of magnitude of

845
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,400
demand that we're not going to be able to serve

846
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,920
and Don and I have worked on more shots on

847
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:19,559
goal approach, which we said, okay, ISS, limited time horizon,

848
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:24,639
super small capacity. You know, it's laughable that you're talking

849
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:28,119
about the size of a few containers, right, How do

850
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:32,599
you get the highest performing research and development out of that?

851
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:34,880
How do you scale it? And so you know in

852
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:38,239
in the near term, what you do as you say,

853
00:54:38,599 --> 00:54:41,239
all right, let's miniatureize, Let's try to get the highest

854
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:46,000
performing projects. You know, increase cadence. So you could see

855
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,440
you could see launch companies increasing the cadence to the ISS.

856
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:55,480
You could see private entities paying for that capacity. You

857
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,039
could see other agencies other than NASA paying for that capacity.

858
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,159
I mean the idea, yeah that we are not We

859
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:04,559
could get more work done on the ISS if we

860
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:08,400
had just more frequent launch and return. So today, I

861
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,119
mean we've been doing you know, I think SpaceX has

862
00:55:12,159 --> 00:55:15,679
been doing. When I said we, I mean the United States.

863
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:20,639
I think SpaceX has been doing three to four major

864
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,960
launches to the ISS a year, and that's going down.

865
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,199
I mean the level of throughput research. Many of these

866
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,519
experiments only require a couple weeks, so you know, get

867
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:35,480
that cadence up. You know, and you can increase the

868
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:38,760
performance on that asset, but it wasn't The asset wasn't

869
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,119
built to be the highest performing commercial model. Now that

870
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:45,480
we know it's worth something commercially, we should be driving

871
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:49,599
the highest throughput out of that asset to then determine

872
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,280
what other assets to put in place, which the right

873
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,440
answer is going to be a significant expansion. It's not

874
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:59,079
going to be replaced on one house sized asset with

875
00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:01,400
one other house. It's going to be how do you

876
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,880
open this up to a significant percentage of the nation's

877
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,920
entrepreneurs and researchers and.

878
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,559
Speaker 1: Doctor Roberts, I understand that really it's been within the

879
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:13,880
past five years that the ISS has really paid off

880
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,679
in terms of research. Is that correct?

881
00:56:16,559 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 3: So, I mean you think you think about it took

882
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,159
about ten years or so to build, so that was

883
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:26,400
its first decade. The second decade, it took took us

884
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,280
some time to learn how to use it. So you know,

885
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,840
you're used to walking around your laboratory and putting a

886
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,639
Petri dish on the desk and walking away. You can't

887
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,679
do that in space. You have to learn completely new

888
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,440
ways of carrying out experiments in space. And it took

889
00:56:41,519 --> 00:56:43,840
us a while to learn how to do that. So

890
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,239
it's really these last few years that we've really seen

891
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:54,360
these amazing, amazing technological achievements, you know, and kind of

892
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,400
getting back as well to the question that you ask about,

893
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,519
you know, the issue of a potential gap. We don't

894
00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:04,440
want to see that. It's not it's and it's not

895
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,079
just you know, getting another space station put up there,

896
00:57:08,119 --> 00:57:11,360
but it's it's this whole ecosystem that's built around this.

897
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:15,400
So there are these other companies that build the hardware,

898
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,320
that help support the investigators that that do these experiments,

899
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:24,280
and so we we can't let that expertise go away.

900
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,199
Speaker 2: We need we need to continue to.

901
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 3: Grow, as Anta keeps, you know, really strongly expressing, we

902
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,920
need to grow this instead of, uh, instead of just

903
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,119
putting it on the shelf and letting it go away,

904
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:41,519
because these companies won't survive without any business. So so

905
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,960
that's really the model that we need to be working towards.

906
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:49,239
Speaker 1: And Anna, in your view, if we were to pull

907
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,360
funding from the ISS program, what kind of implications would

908
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:59,559
that have for the national security of the United States?

909
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:04,119
Speaker 2: Back to you know, the value of microgravity, right, So

910
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,119
we're we're looking at it very much from the standpoint

911
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:11,039
of what's at stake here, you know, So there's plenty

912
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,840
there's plenty of other things, good things coming out of

913
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,920
that asset, and there's obviously beyond the physical asset, there's

914
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,599
the information and the knowledge. You know, these these high

915
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:24,840
caliber teams, these programs, these entrepreneurs, these researchers who have

916
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,760
been funded. So so I think it's coming right back

917
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,440
to you know, some of the largest and most impactful

918
00:58:31,519 --> 00:58:37,559
terrestrial markets. So, whether it's biotechnology, whether it's advanced materials

919
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,000
for advanced computation, you know, so AI right, so if

920
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,760
you have higher performing chips, you know, what's the percentage

921
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,000
chance that some of those higher performing chips are going

922
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:51,880
to be based off of materials that were developed in microgravity?

923
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,800
I mean, you know, people have different opinions on that,

924
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:59,599
but certainly there's degrees of control, you know, and you know,

925
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,920
pure possible in micro gravity that, by the way, provide

926
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:08,119
an entry point for what we can do, you know,

927
00:59:08,199 --> 00:59:10,760
with the lower gravity conditions on the Moon. Right, So

928
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,239
what we do in LEO also is very close by,

929
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,239
but it's instructive for things that we might want to

930
00:59:17,239 --> 00:59:19,760
build out on the Moon. You know, or on Mars,

931
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,400
you know, you get there a lot quicker, you know,

932
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:25,000
versus the could it be up to six months to

933
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,639
get to Mars, you know, it's several days to get

934
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:30,440
up to the moon type standpoint. So I think that

935
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,880
the these are markets that the United States competes in,

936
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:43,440
so biotechnology, advanced materials, energy, advanced computation. So we cannot

937
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:49,800
afford to seed any potential aspect for advantage. And you know,

938
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,920
the market is quite strongly signaling to us that others

939
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:58,400
are very eager and excited to build out upon you

940
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,800
know this iss you know, with our international partners, but

941
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,360
you know, the United States taking quite an important leading

942
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,079
role in this, you know, innovation and assets. So I

943
01:00:10,119 --> 01:00:13,400
would just say, you know, it's it's it's it could be.

944
01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:17,960
It looks like it's the future of biotechnology advantage, it

945
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:21,159
looks like it could very well be the future of

946
01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:27,000
computation and perhaps AI. So this cuts to our most

947
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:32,159
critical innovation and critical emerging technology priorities in the United States.

948
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:36,440
And you just never see any potential area of societal

949
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,079
benefit and national strategic advantage.

950
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:41,039
Speaker 1: Doctor Roberts.

951
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:44,519
Speaker 3: And I was gonna say, and just you know, the

952
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:47,920
you know national security, but also just the the loss

953
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,599
of the benefit to humanity. I had mentioned earlier that

954
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,400
you know, one of the things about micro gravity is

955
01:00:55,440 --> 01:01:00,239
that whenever you take human tissues into space, they can

956
01:01:00,239 --> 01:01:04,639
form more three D complex structures. So one of the

957
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:09,159
issues today is at one hundred and fifty thousand people

958
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,599
each year on organ transplant, So there's a shortage, a

959
01:01:13,639 --> 01:01:17,800
shortage of organs. But what if you could take a

960
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,519
person's own cells, take them into space and grow them

961
01:01:21,519 --> 01:01:26,119
into tissues like heart tissues, and then take those organs

962
01:01:26,159 --> 01:01:28,840
back and transplant them. Well, there's a lot more worth

963
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,159
that needs to be done in these areas, but just

964
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:34,719
in the past year, our the past couple of years,

965
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:39,000
a company, red Wire, has three D printed a human moniscus,

966
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:44,119
that's the cartilage the tissue in a human knee. And

967
01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:47,519
every year there's eight hundred thousand people who have knee

968
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:50,119
replacement surgeries done. But what if you didn't need to

969
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,079
do that. What if you could just take your own cells,

970
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:55,400
send them into space, grow your cartilage tissue, and then

971
01:01:55,639 --> 01:01:58,559
bring that back and transplant it. In this past year,

972
01:02:00,119 --> 01:02:03,280
cells were grown heart cells were grown in space, so

973
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,280
human heart tissue was grown in space, and the idea

974
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,800
is that one day we could create an a heart

975
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,559
for transplant, but even even earlier than that, we can

976
01:02:13,599 --> 01:02:17,199
take heart cells and use them as patches for patients

977
01:02:17,199 --> 01:02:21,679
for example, who experienced my cardial infarcs are had a

978
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:26,599
heart attack. So so just the societal benefit that would

979
01:02:26,639 --> 01:02:29,719
be lost if we weren't doing this incredible research.

980
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:33,719
Speaker 2: And doctor Roberts, so just to add to that, you know,

981
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,199
just kind of coming back to what Donna's saying so beautifully.

982
01:02:37,239 --> 01:02:41,599
I mean, there are multiple researchers who are developing, you know,

983
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:43,079
like you said, in the case of CAT, like a

984
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:47,079
cancer cancer fighting drug, like a cancer kill switch, you know,

985
01:02:47,079 --> 01:02:50,599
and there are others that will pursue similar paths to

986
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:55,280
that and uh combat batting neurodegeneration. So if we think

987
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,679
about the importance like in the value of you know,

988
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:02,480
quality of life, you know, and health and you know,

989
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:07,119
and length of life and combating that neurow degeneration, the

990
01:03:07,719 --> 01:03:11,239
potential that's been brought forth for anti aging, you know.

991
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:13,599
But then to also bring it back to the because

992
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:16,280
I know so many people are also so passionate about

993
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,400
the environment, you know, you think about these advanced materials,

994
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:24,280
some of the potential for higher performing energy storage, you know,

995
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,440
or on the catalyst side. I mean, I know, one

996
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,920
of the areas of research that you know might still

997
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,800
be early on but that I've funded was the potential

998
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,880
for new catalyst development in space because you get these

999
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,679
very different materials. So I mean, there are companies that

1000
01:03:38,719 --> 01:03:45,239
are looking to produce higher performing hydrogen catalysts. So whether

1001
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,800
or not we get to something that's much more effective

1002
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:52,679
in space or not, that potential to more efficiently convert water,

1003
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:55,599
you know, to clean burning hydrogen, you know, and that

1004
01:03:55,639 --> 01:03:59,360
abundant source of energy. These are some of the things

1005
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:03,519
that you know, really are being developed in microgravity, and

1006
01:04:03,559 --> 01:04:05,960
certainly much of that history has been on the ISS,

1007
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:09,440
and ISS is opening the way for so many of

1008
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,960
these companies. So you know, I'd say less about the

1009
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,800
ISS versus everybody else, and more of this the ISS

1010
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,159
having led the way and leading into this aggressive, aggressive

1011
01:04:21,199 --> 01:04:24,360
expansion where we can do so much more with microgravity.

1012
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,719
Speaker 1: And doctor Roberts, just to make sure I'm understanding your

1013
01:04:28,719 --> 01:04:33,440
position correctly, So if if we were to you know,

1014
01:04:34,239 --> 01:04:39,480
prematurely exit the ISS, that could set us back in

1015
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:43,800
terms of research and our sort of a place in

1016
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:47,239
terms of low Earth orbit. This is something we need,

1017
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,679
we need to see through all the way to the end.

1018
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that we need to maximize the lifetime

1019
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,039
that's left in the space station to continue to do

1020
01:04:56,159 --> 01:05:01,119
this research, to continue to develop these unique opportunities, need

1021
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,079
unique applications. You know, we're not at the level of

1022
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:08,159
manufacturing in space yet. We've still got to work out

1023
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:12,000
that technology and that's the important So these last few

1024
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:15,280
years of the International Space Station is how we can

1025
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:20,119
set up this this coming low Earth orbit economy. How

1026
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,559
how can we best position these commercial companies to be

1027
01:05:23,639 --> 01:05:26,000
successful in this in this new future.

1028
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,119
Speaker 2: And Donna, I think something that you know, I don't

1029
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:32,280
know how much you'd like to speak to it, but

1030
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,880
but Matt, something that took us a long time to

1031
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,000
really get to in the interagency was there's expected to

1032
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:41,960
be a shortfall, right so here, you know, over the

1033
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,559
past couple of years, there have been these extraordinary new

1034
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,760
why it matters, you know, go from exotic and interesting

1035
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,360
you kind of see people throwing balls and m and

1036
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,840
ms in the air towards life saving drugs, right, higher

1037
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,400
performing hips. This is pretty new that you know, this

1038
01:05:57,519 --> 01:05:59,800
is you know, even people who work in this space.

1039
01:06:00,239 --> 01:06:02,960
This is newer to see this potential. But right at

1040
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,360
the time where we're at this inflection point and where

1041
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,400
you know, Johnna, you've kind of indicated that maybe China

1042
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,880
you know, copied quite a bit of what was on

1043
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,119
the ISS. Right when others are saying this looks great,

1044
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:18,719
let's go full speed ahead, it looks like there's actually

1045
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,760
less capacity. There's less flights that are anticipated. You know,

1046
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,960
it's kind of what's dealer of it? And when does

1047
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,400
this come offline? And when does this other thing come online?

1048
01:06:29,559 --> 01:06:31,400
And so right at the point where we should be

1049
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,800
looking to expand you know, by orders of magnitude, instead

1050
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,239
it looks like there's less capacity that's going to be

1051
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,320
in place and that it's spoken for. So you know

1052
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,519
what I've had to come to the National Science and

1053
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:49,719
others and say is we're not right now, We're not

1054
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:53,800
We're not resourcing access to the one of the most

1055
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,599
critical competitive advantage is that is out there in market.

1056
01:06:57,639 --> 01:07:00,239
So this is will thing that the government you know,

1057
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,079
certainly has done, I believe should be doing their multiple

1058
01:07:03,199 --> 01:07:07,119
entities du D or multi agencies who can come together

1059
01:07:07,159 --> 01:07:09,639
to do this. But if not, there's an ROI here,

1060
01:07:09,679 --> 01:07:13,000
so the private sector should do it. That's something that

1061
01:07:13,039 --> 01:07:15,880
we're looking to work with business as and investors on.

1062
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,199
But the ROI you know, has been indicated by the

1063
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:23,760
prior work and also by the competitors like the Chinese

1064
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,639
are putting assets in market. We need to build that

1065
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:29,920
out to be to continue to be players in these markets.

1066
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 1: How can the public at home watching this fight for

1067
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,000
continued work on the ISS for instance? Are there specific

1068
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:41,199
organizations or initiatives in place to make sure that we

1069
01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:42,400
stay in the game.

1070
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:48,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think number one is becoming educated. So just

1071
01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:51,280
listening to your podcasts and hearing these stories and being

1072
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,559
able to communicate them to other people. I think the

1073
01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:57,360
most important thing we need to do right now is

1074
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,880
to educate the public on what we're what we're doing

1075
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:01,440
been trying to accomplish here.

1076
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 2: And we welcome people to reach out to us. So

1077
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,280
our firm is American Deep Tech and our website is

1078
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,599
www dot deep tech one dot com one as in

1079
01:08:14,639 --> 01:08:18,000
the number deep tech one dot com. And you know,

1080
01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:22,039
people can express their interests. There are some national level initiatives,

1081
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:25,279
you know with regards to I saying them so in space,

1082
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,199
advanced manufacturing and others, But it's really the type of

1083
01:08:29,239 --> 01:08:32,119
thing that you know, on the private side, it's it's

1084
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:35,920
finding investors who know how to who know how to

1085
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:40,680
effectively support uh these companies and get resources to high performers.

1086
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,520
That's an area that we've certainly been active. And on

1087
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:49,239
the government side, the budgets come from Congress. I mean,

1088
01:08:49,239 --> 01:08:53,760
there's a prejudice president's budget request and then Congress authorizes

1089
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:54,279
the budget.

1090
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: As a final question to you both, you know, we've

1091
01:08:58,199 --> 01:09:01,840
both of you have touched on on China. If if

1092
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,600
we were to you know, kill funding to the ISS

1093
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:09,000
from the United States perspective, do we run the risk

1094
01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:13,319
of China becoming the new dominant force in terms of

1095
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:14,880
low Earth orbit research.

1096
01:09:17,239 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I can just say that, you know, as

1097
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,960
as Anna's mentioned, you know, we need to be building up.

1098
01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:26,640
So that's what China is doing right now. They're adding

1099
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,840
they're actually adding modules to their space station over the

1100
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:34,239
next few years. They just announced this yesterday. So they're

1101
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:38,520
building up. They see the advantage of research and low

1102
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,119
Earth orbit and you know it is the thing is

1103
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:45,520
is that you know, we have this long, rich history.

1104
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:50,039
So back in the nineteen fifties we started doing you know,

1105
01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:53,479
biomedical research on astronauts, and we learn that if you

1106
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,560
take astronauts into space, then they experience, you know, these

1107
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:02,720
symptoms and signs that are very that kind of mimic aging,

1108
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:10,039
so muscle loss, bone loss, cardiovascularityconditioning, it changes to their

1109
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,640
brain that happened in space. And and now we're realizing

1110
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,680
that that that's kind of the by that that's an

1111
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,479
issue for NASA for expiration, but for us and buying manufacturing,

1112
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,800
and that's an asset that we can use so we

1113
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,960
can accelerate drug developments. As Anna has mentioned, we can

1114
01:10:29,279 --> 01:10:32,960
because of these this accelerated aging that occurs in space,

1115
01:10:33,319 --> 01:10:36,359
we can do we can study, for example, a drug

1116
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,680
to that's intended to treat Alzheimer's disease that would typically

1117
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,399
take a ten year development period for patients here on

1118
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,079
Earth to do clinical trials can be done in a

1119
01:10:46,119 --> 01:10:49,119
matter of weeks. So we're so so based on our

1120
01:10:49,239 --> 01:10:54,479
rich history, we're now realizing how important this this asset is.

1121
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,520
And so as Anna said, this is the time that

1122
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,720
we need to be building capability.

1123
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: How can you win? How can you win if you're

1124
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:06,960
taking years to do something that somebody else can do

1125
01:11:07,239 --> 01:11:11,640
within weeks, you lose. So for people who like to win,

1126
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:15,600
you need to put your access to microgravity in place.

1127
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:19,000
Same thing on the material side. So you know, some

1128
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:22,760
of these advantages have really only become parent to those

1129
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,000
who've been dragging it very closely over the last year

1130
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:27,800
or two. But there needs to be you know, for

1131
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,239
people that want to compete and win in these markets,

1132
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,560
they need to get smart, you know, on what's at

1133
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,640
stake here and how it amplifies and or transforms their

1134
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,880
current business model. So for the pharmaceutical business model, I mean,

1135
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,960
this can be a tremendous accelerator. And for those that

1136
01:11:45,039 --> 01:11:47,800
don't get accelerated, how how do they compete on those

1137
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,239
very different timelines. So, you know, this is something that

1138
01:11:51,279 --> 01:11:54,720
I know, we're very eager and we're appreciative to you

1139
01:11:55,319 --> 01:11:58,520
for helping get this information out there so that more

1140
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:04,000
American innovators, companies, hospitals, universities can come to the table

1141
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,640
and make what we we think there's an ROI there,

1142
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,600
you know, so we're talking about what can be highly

1143
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:18,079
valuable materials that are producible pharmaceuticals, you know, knowledge advances

1144
01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:21,680
and uh, you know, yes, if we don't do it,

1145
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,199
I mean, other countries like China have made it clear

1146
01:12:24,319 --> 01:12:26,520
that they will and the difference you know, and also

1147
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,600
from just a consumer standpoint, Uh, there's no reason to

1148
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,239
assume that we're going to have access to those benefits

1149
01:12:33,359 --> 01:12:35,960
if you know, we're first, you know, in line access

1150
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:39,079
to those benefits if developed by China. Uh, there's not

1151
01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:41,920
necessarily going to be the investor access to those equities

1152
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,319
if they're listed out of China.

1153
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: You know.

1154
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,279
Speaker 2: So there's both the companies, there's the inventors, there's the universities,

1155
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:49,880
but there's also just as a patient, you know, when

1156
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,640
are you able to access it? You know, and you

1157
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,880
know what what levels of freedom and transparency are associated

1158
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,880
with that development? You know, we what we can in

1159
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,800
the United States to to share things internationally, you know,

1160
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,079
and to and to drive that abundance you know, you

1161
01:13:07,119 --> 01:13:09,520
know beyond our own shores. So you know, there's really

1162
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,359
quite a bit at stake here. And uh, we think

1163
01:13:12,399 --> 01:13:15,279
that by making the potential parent that you know, the

1164
01:13:15,399 --> 01:13:16,840
United States is going to put on the boots and

1165
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,600
get it done. So we look forward to winning in

1166
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:19,399
this space.

1167
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Doctor Robert talk and folks follow what is going

1168
01:13:23,039 --> 01:13:25,680
on with the with the ISS and your work.

1169
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:27,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly.

1170
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 1: So.

1171
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,520
Speaker 3: We have a website that's really helpful, has a lot

1172
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,000
of the examples that I've talked about today, as is

1173
01:13:34,199 --> 01:13:39,079
s National Lab dot org and so that's packed with

1174
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:43,399
a lot of great information. You could also go to

1175
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:48,199
NASA's website as well, NASA dot gov to to look

1176
01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:49,840
for some of these this information.

1177
01:13:50,399 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: And I would also just like to done. I think

1178
01:13:53,039 --> 01:13:56,119
it would be it might make sense for us to also,

1179
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,640
uh share. You know that there's been tremendous leadership, you know,

1180
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:04,960
across the interagency, but certainly out of NASA, you know,

1181
01:14:05,039 --> 01:14:09,760
and the NASA in Space Manufacturing, you know, the INSPA

1182
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:13,159
team you know has really done so much, Kevin and

1183
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:17,239
Curtis and Lynn Harper, so they've really been visionaries in

1184
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:21,159
this space. And then just seeing that you know, doees

1185
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:26,319
become more active d O d you know, Commerce, Department

1186
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:31,439
of Transportation, just so many djhs and NIH E PA.

1187
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,399
So the fact that you know, there's really an opportunities

1188
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:38,000
for so many more of these colleagues, you know, across

1189
01:14:38,039 --> 01:14:40,239
the government and the private sector to come forward. I

1190
01:14:40,279 --> 01:14:43,800
know I'm missing people, Donna. Who else should we describe

1191
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,319
as doing important work? You know in this space.

1192
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're kind of going through the agencies you

1193
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:50,840
you know, mentioned.

1194
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:54,079
Speaker 2: As well.

1195
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 3: So I think what it's just really highlighting is how

1196
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,399
space isn't just you know, for an and exploration. It's

1197
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:06,119
really it's cross cutting all areas of government as well.

1198
01:15:07,239 --> 01:15:11,279
Speaker 2: East is a place. As our colleague Kevin from NASA says,

1199
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,159
space is a place. So if you can imagine, I mean,

1200
01:15:14,359 --> 01:15:16,159
for so long we've looked to NASA and we say,

1201
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,880
NASA does all of space? Can you imagine if there

1202
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,600
was an Earth Agency, Earth is a lot smaller than

1203
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,800
all of space. We should say, oh, well, that's that's

1204
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,720
on the Earth Agency. You know, there's so many capabilities

1205
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,000
both in the private sector, you know, across you know,

1206
01:15:30,039 --> 01:15:32,760
the fortune one the US government that we really need

1207
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:33,399
to bring to bear.

1208
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, well, thank you both for joining us. And

1209
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:39,479
I just want to point out to our viewers that

1210
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,479
doctor Roberts is not coming to us from the vacuum

1211
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:47,720
of space. That is your your little bend. Yeah, that

1212
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:52,680
is the ISS behind you, right, it is definitely okay, great, Well,

1213
01:15:53,039 --> 01:15:55,960
I'm really early glad you both came on, and hopefully

1214
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,800
our our viewers at home will have taken away. You know,

1215
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,920
there's really been some great things that have come out

1216
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,600
of the I S S and it would be a

1217
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,880
a tragedy to uh to uh step back from that

1218
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,079
at this At this point, we should we should keep

1219
01:16:11,079 --> 01:16:13,640
on on going. So, ladies, thank you so much for

1220
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,399
joining us, and look forward to us seeing what's what's

1221
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,239
next on the I S S.