Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing.
Speaker 2: My godness, be Frank. Where the only way to be
Speaker 2: is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. We're
Speaker 2: the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Frank Leborne, and I'd like to thank you for joining
Speaker 2: us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation
Speaker 2: Podcast or No Conversations out of bounds and all points
Speaker 2: of view are welcome. We go live to tape, as
Speaker 2: I say, every week, and I give you the date
Speaker 2: so you have some context of when we are recording this,
Speaker 2: and it's the seventeenth of September, and it's just about
Speaker 2: the beginning of Latin Hispanic Heritage Month, and that will
Speaker 2: be our theme today. And with that mind, I want
Speaker 2: to read you something that According to Ford's magazine, Spanish
Speaker 2: is spoken by more than five hundred and fifty nine
Speaker 2: million people globally. Of those, four hundred and sixty million
Speaker 2: are native speakers, making Spanish the language with the second
Speaker 2: largest population of native speakers in the world. Mandarin holds
Speaker 2: the top title in the US. Thirteen percent of this
Speaker 2: population speaks Spanish at home, earning it the title of
Speaker 2: the most common non English language spoken. The US has
Speaker 2: also the second largest population of Spanish speakers in the world.
Speaker 2: Very interesting, Mexico has the largest and the way the
Speaker 2: data is trending. By twenty fifty, one in three people
Speaker 2: in the US will speak Spanish. This data includes bilingual
Speaker 2: people who will also speak English. But Spanish speaking implies
Speaker 2: a monolith united by a common language. That would be
Speaker 2: like saying that everyone who speaks English must be from
Speaker 2: the same culture. While the Latin Hispanic diospa here is
Speaker 2: as diverse as the many countries they come from. Even
Speaker 2: the word Latin Hispanic has some meaning when we talk
Speaker 2: about that with our guest. In other words, not all
Speaker 2: Latins are from Mexico. Like my guest, he arrived in
Speaker 2: Queens from Peru when he was seven years old. That
Speaker 2: was in nineteen sixty six. He lived there for a
Speaker 2: couple of years before he moved to Brentwood, Long Island.
Speaker 2: At the end of the eleventh grade, he moved with
Speaker 2: his family to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where he graduated high
Speaker 2: school and lived for another year. After graduating high school
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty, he moved to New York City and
Speaker 2: attended Parsons School of Design with dreams of being a photojournalist.
Speaker 2: He did a lot of street photography and headshots during
Speaker 2: this time and it had a blast being the house
Speaker 2: photographer the Ritz in New York City for a couple
Speaker 2: of years. In nineteen eighty two, he met the love
Speaker 2: of his life, Gillaspi, and they married in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 2: They have two beautiful children, Nick and Nina, and three grandchildren, William,
Speaker 2: Jack and Nico. He's been in the prime mortgage business
Speaker 2: as a manager and loan officer for thirty five years,
Speaker 2: currently with Prime Lending. He continues to make photographs, largely
Speaker 2: for himself, and shoots events and portraits for local organizations.
Speaker 2: George Pajovi's my friend. Thank you for joining us here
Speaker 2: on being Frank.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Frank, thanks for having me. I'm honored to
Speaker 1: be a guest.
Speaker 2: You know, I mentioned in the intro and I want
Speaker 2: to get into your background also like growing up for
Speaker 2: the seven years, your memories, et cetera. Before that, I mentioned,
Speaker 2: you know, the whole idea of Hispanic and Latin. Now
Speaker 2: they use the term LATINX. It's very broad and people
Speaker 2: don't understand there's connotation between all of those things. Like,
Speaker 2: it's often used as a broad term Hispanic for all
Speaker 2: Spanish speaking people, particularly in this country, but Hispanic has
Speaker 2: a particular meaning and location, if you will, that's specific
Speaker 2: to a particular group of Spanish speaking people. It's kind
Speaker 2: of the root of this, the idea that of making
Speaker 2: that Spanish speaking is multicultural, it's not a monolith. But
Speaker 2: your thoughts on that please.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I often.
Speaker 2: Have to.
Speaker 1: Answer people ask what's the difference between Hispanic Latino and
Speaker 1: those two terms are actually called ethnonymes, and they used
Speaker 1: to refer to refer collectively to the inhabitants of the
Speaker 1: United States. That's that either are Spanish or Latin America.
Speaker 1: Now Hispanic directly means that you come from a Spanish
Speaker 1: speaking country or continent South America, with the exclusion of Brazil, Cuba,
Speaker 1: Central America, and particularly Spain, so that's Hispanic. Latin America
Speaker 1: is includes Brazil and Portugal. So everything is Latin America,
Speaker 1: but Hispanic is everything but Brazil and Portugal.
Speaker 2: That's another way of doing it, Yeah, clarifying, but it
Speaker 2: gets We tend to, I guess maybe for ease, tend
Speaker 2: to paint with a broader brush. But it's much more
Speaker 2: flex and diverse than that's our point, right.
Speaker 1: Sure, you know somewhere somebody decided to make it a
Speaker 1: little bit more complicated. But and the term LATINX I
Speaker 1: love it because because Spanish, like French and all the
Speaker 1: romantic languages have a gender attached to words, Latino or
Speaker 1: Latina very often is misused. So someone along the line
Speaker 1: they said latinx. So that way you don't have to
Speaker 1: refer to someone who identifies as a man as a woman,
Speaker 1: or vice versa. So I think that that was a
Speaker 1: smart move by somebody's part.
Speaker 2: So once again, words count. I mean, you know, people
Speaker 2: throw their hands up in the oh, we have to
Speaker 2: remember this. Well, it's not so hard and it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Why not learn it exactly right? Words matter? Words matter,
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: So George, let's get back to a little bit about
Speaker 2: your life. And you mentioned you you're from Peru. I'd
Speaker 2: like to know where and what it was like, what
Speaker 2: your memories are growing up there at the time that
Speaker 2: was I assumed the late fifties early sixties, and you
Speaker 2: lived there to you were seven. Tell us a little
Speaker 2: bit about your life there, where you were living how
Speaker 2: you were living well.
Speaker 1: I was born in fifty eight, in December fifty eighth,
Speaker 1: and I was born into a very privileged family in Peru.
Speaker 1: At the time. My father, my grandfather, was the mayor
Speaker 1: of an area of Lima called Remac And it's sort
Speaker 1: of like comparable to let's say, in New York City, right,
Speaker 1: And my grandfather was like the mayor of Queen's.
Speaker 2: Now the borough president if you will, in our town
Speaker 2: to be like, okay, it's sort of like an assemblyman
Speaker 2: or right, right, Okay, Yeah, he was an academy, a mayor,
Speaker 2: so to speak.
Speaker 1: So we looved a very nice, nice life. My if
Speaker 1: you look, I look at pictures, I wish I would
Speaker 1: have pulled one. It's a kind of a family, you know.
Speaker 1: We always get together for dinner. The family is always
Speaker 1: it was. It was very If you look at an
Speaker 1: old photo, it looks like an Italian sort of like
Speaker 1: KOs and Austra family and sitting around and all the
Speaker 1: guys that were in suits looking a little a little
Speaker 1: dangerous and uh. But those were the created the heady
Speaker 1: days for us. We lived in a beautiful home, had
Speaker 1: a couple of you know, servants if you will, or
Speaker 1: you know, people that took care of us, and I
Speaker 1: had avocado trees in the back. So but that was
Speaker 1: only that that was very short lived. Not long after that,
Speaker 1: my grandfather didn't get re elected, I guess, so he
Speaker 1: went back into his old insurance. And around that time,
Speaker 1: my when I was born, my my mother and my
Speaker 1: father didn't were separated when I was by one. They
Speaker 1: just didn't hit it off too well. So I lived
Speaker 1: with my grandparents, uh and my three other aunts. So
Speaker 1: it was four women, my grandparents and myself.
Speaker 2: Well extended family all in this all in this which
Speaker 2: is also very Latin, and I want to make clear
Speaker 2: I'm one of the original Latins Italian and you and
Speaker 2: you mentioned that the language is the similarities, et cetera,
Speaker 2: the family traditions even mentioned in the photographs, So I
Speaker 2: understand that Italian Latins often live in extended families as
Speaker 2: as yours did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what's changed over the many
Speaker 1: years is that the the the the elders are no
Speaker 1: longer really as as revered as as they were I
Speaker 1: think in the old days. I mean, we all love
Speaker 1: our grandparents, our parents, but we all break up and separate,
Speaker 1: and unlike in Peru or other countries, they're still very
Speaker 1: hell very closely tight, very tight knit. So we live.
Speaker 1: My mom separated, so I had to live with my
Speaker 1: my grandparents, and then when I was about three and
Speaker 1: a half, my mother came to the States by herself.
Speaker 1: So I stayed behind from the age of about three
Speaker 1: to seven, and I was raised by my three beautiful
Speaker 1: aunts and my grandmother and grandfather. So I really I
Speaker 1: was quite spoiled, to say the least, and so I
Speaker 1: came here later on three and a half years later.
Speaker 1: My mom had already kind of met someone and they
Speaker 1: had gotten married, and so they started creating a family.
Speaker 1: I was obviously part of it. I have three other
Speaker 1: siblings that are from her husband's side. So I was
Speaker 1: there in Queens for We were there in Queens for
Speaker 1: another two years, and then we went to Long Island.
Speaker 1: But after the eleventh grade, I actually moved down to
Speaker 1: Florida by myself. Her husband and I did not hit
Speaker 1: it off too well, say the least, and so I
Speaker 1: actually moved to my aunt's aunts home down in Florida
Speaker 1: and Fort Lauderdale, and I graduated high school there.
Speaker 2: So well, I want to bring you up to speed,
Speaker 2: but a couple of days before we go passage, So
Speaker 2: you were kind of living, it's fair to say, in
Speaker 2: almost an idyllic life in Peru. And again this is
Speaker 2: what I mean about people painting with such a broad
Speaker 2: brush in today's status with migrants, to all desperate people
Speaker 2: going through the jungle, you were far from a desperate
Speaker 2: person at that point. You were living well, so that
Speaker 2: has to be made. But also as a young person,
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, young man, a boy of seven,
Speaker 2: it's been a shock to you, George, being pulled out.
Speaker 2: If you could, you because I wanted to share that
Speaker 2: this is part of the immigrant experience. It's it's too
Speaker 2: broad to just say it's this way, So I want
Speaker 2: to know a little bit about your way. So you're
Speaker 2: pulled out idyllic life in Peru to come to America,
Speaker 2: I wanted to I want to know what were your expectations?
Speaker 2: Were you thinking? What were you what were you feeling
Speaker 2: to be It's hard for anyone to be pulled out
Speaker 2: of what they're familiar with. Now you've got a completely
Speaker 2: different country culture. If you can, what were you thinking
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's hard to remember way back, but I
Speaker 1: remember you know I had experiences of having the shock
Speaker 1: of really because I didn't speak English, I got popped writing.
Speaker 1: It's a second grade, I believe, And I don't recall
Speaker 1: the any no trauma. I remember getting lost because I
Speaker 1: had to walk to school. Walk to school was only
Speaker 1: maybe four or five blocks away, and you have to
Speaker 1: put your name on your tag. And I got lost.
Speaker 1: And I remember that pretty much because I was pretty scared.
Speaker 1: I was walking on I guess I made a wrong turn.
Speaker 1: I'm walking around and I actually got delivered to my house,
Speaker 1: to my honitor apartment by a mailman. He saw that
Speaker 1: I was lost. He came up to me and I
Speaker 1: showed him my address and he threw me in his
Speaker 1: truck and took me home.
Speaker 2: And I was story, if you will, really.
Speaker 1: That was his biggest delivery of the day. But I
Speaker 1: you know that, and just I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I I don't feel like I feel like I had
Speaker 1: a pretty easy transition. I ended up. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: remember being playing with his friend, this this boy, I
Speaker 1: remember his name, his name was Benji and uh. We
Speaker 1: we used to go down to the local hotel and
Speaker 1: try to work for tips to helping people with their baggage,
Speaker 1: uh to from there, from the from their car to
Speaker 1: the hotel, trying to hustle. So I became very industrious
Speaker 1: right away, you.
Speaker 2: Know, so hustling away, Jo, you know, yeah again, And
Speaker 2: it's a very interesting perspective. And I'm so pleased that
Speaker 2: you've come on and just the idea. You're not not
Speaker 2: shy when comes to talking to one another. And I said,
Speaker 2: let's just just come on and just talk as we
Speaker 2: always do. And I think people have some relevance because
Speaker 2: we do have similar experiences, but again, we often have
Speaker 2: preconceived notions and the idea that everyone is dying to
Speaker 2: come to America because the streets are lined with gold.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a universal thing. My Sicilian grandparents leaving oppression,
Speaker 2: and it seems to be a rather typical experience for most.
Speaker 2: But it's again, it's not all as you were saying.
Speaker 2: It really wasn't that kind of situation. But did you
Speaker 2: have any thoughts of what America was at that point
Speaker 2: or it was far from your thinking.
Speaker 1: As far from me. I was struggling with the language.
Speaker 1: And remember this was nineteen sixty six. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of migration coming from South America. Now we lived
Speaker 1: in Jackson Heights, Queens, where it was like mostly Columbians
Speaker 1: were living there at the time. Peruvians said tend tended
Speaker 1: to sort of spread out. There really wasn't a Peruvian
Speaker 1: neighborhood where sort of like we now there is in
Speaker 1: these areas and where we live in the Hudson Valley,
Speaker 1: for instance, in Portchester is a big Peruvian population. Patterson,
Speaker 1: New Jersey white plains, you know. But it was a
Speaker 1: huge migration. Cubans were also coming over my my mother,
Speaker 1: my mother and her husband had very several Cuban friends,
Speaker 1: and I just remember having a lot of fun. I
Speaker 1: don't you know. We when we moved out to Long Island.
Speaker 1: I think that was more of a big change for
Speaker 1: me because suddenly we were out in the suburbs.
Speaker 2: And basically even in in Peru. And you describe yourself
Speaker 2: mostly as a city kit.
Speaker 1: Yes, the city. We were in the city, and it
Speaker 1: was you know, suddenly with wide open spaces and uh.
Speaker 1: But I think I I acclimated pretty quickly, you know.
Speaker 1: So it was it that was a nice experience, you know.
Speaker 1: My only my only conflict was I the family dynamic
Speaker 1: wasn't so great with with my mother's husband. So I
Speaker 1: ended up I just at sixteen. I was I had
Speaker 1: started working when I was fourteen years old at a restaurant.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to make a buck, and so I
Speaker 1: ended up actually at seventeen, I ended up becoming getting
Speaker 1: a job at After I got my license, I got
Speaker 1: a job with Sears, and I got, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: into a business that I'm actually in right now, which
Speaker 1: is credit financials. I was a credit authorizer at the
Speaker 1: age of seventeen. I was approving people's refrigerators and washing machines.
Speaker 2: And you come along the way. Now you get the
Speaker 2: whole package. If you go to George, you get all
Speaker 2: the stuff that surrounds the refrigerator.
Speaker 1: That house to I e.
Speaker 2: The house, you can have the house. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Georgia Marden was a nice. God please continue, an I
Speaker 2: mean to cut you up.
Speaker 1: So Florida was a nice I was also another shock
Speaker 1: because suddenly I was in the tropics again, which made
Speaker 1: me feel comfortable because I was really back into the
Speaker 1: temperature that I was used to.
Speaker 2: So you know, let's talk about those adjustments. And that's
Speaker 2: fair enough. I mean, I always teach people as the secilia.
Speaker 2: I love the hot weather. It's genetic, whether it history
Speaker 2: it isn't. I tell people it is, I do. But
Speaker 2: there is often something to that. If you're you're born
Speaker 2: to it literally And one of the reasons you were
Speaker 2: successful in places it is because your genes allow you
Speaker 2: to be so so beyond that, what what what other
Speaker 2: things that were adjustments for you? You mentioned the language, you
Speaker 2: didn't speak really any English till you got here. Climate.
Speaker 2: What else? Is there anything else in your mind that
Speaker 2: sticks out you really had to adjust.
Speaker 1: To when we when we started talking about coming on.
Speaker 1: For me, coming on, I kind of thought about it
Speaker 1: is that there was a time and even sometimes now,
Speaker 1: I think probably from my late teens to my twenties thirties,
Speaker 1: is that I've sometimes felt like a man with no
Speaker 1: man's land because I I, obviously I don't have much
Speaker 1: of a Spanish accent. Some people claim they hear it
Speaker 1: in my voice. I don't think I've heard recordings of
Speaker 1: my voice. I don't hear it, but I I moving there.
Speaker 2: Fluent. Your Spanish is still I'm still fluent.
Speaker 1: I think I hear more of an English accent in
Speaker 1: my Spanish. But my my, my feeling has always been
Speaker 1: like you know, I never really I've always as far
Speaker 1: as racism is concerned, because I never really saw myself
Speaker 1: as It's not that I always identified as Latino or Peruvian.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't see yourself when you're looking out
Speaker 1: your eyes, right, so I don't. I never saw the
Speaker 1: shade of my skin per se. But there are there
Speaker 1: are times that I felt the racism just basically from
Speaker 1: my looks throughout throughout my life because people kind of
Speaker 1: like when they meet me, they oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have an accent at all. Well, I've been
Speaker 1: here since I was six seven years old, so.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of anyway, thanks, thank you very much. Will you.
Speaker 1: When you move somewhere before puberty? Uh, From what I
Speaker 1: understand is you you acclimate and assimilate much quicker, especially
Speaker 1: verbally editorial.
Speaker 2: We always adapt better to languages when we're younger. There's
Speaker 2: no doubt about that exactly. Friends that came here, go ahead,
Speaker 2: please cut you off. But I have friends that came here,
Speaker 2: came here and there in their late teens, and they
Speaker 2: still have an accent.
Speaker 1: So it's really that that very sensitive and tender period
Speaker 1: of puberty or you know, right in the middle of it,
Speaker 1: where you assimilate much faster.
Speaker 2: It makes me to a question that it's why I
Speaker 2: was jumping in. I get so excited popped into my head.
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's what part of being frank is is,
Speaker 2: you know, screwing up and jumping on people. But be that,
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about language. That
Speaker 2: one of the things that happened in our family as
Speaker 2: Sicilian Americans, my grandfather forbid them to speak Italian or
Speaker 2: Sicilian in the household to assimilate more quickly. Now I'm
Speaker 2: of the ilk, well, why couldn't have we done both?
Speaker 2: It seems much more important these days, certainly amongst Latin
Speaker 2: X people, to to preserve the language. Your thoughts on
Speaker 2: that do you like? For example, have you passed it
Speaker 2: on to your children? Do your children speak Spanish at all?
Speaker 1: My thoughts on that are yes, If if one of
Speaker 1: your one one person speaks Spanish or another language wherever
Speaker 1: it is, French, Russian, whatever it is is, they should
Speaker 1: definitely pas at all. Now I married an American woman
Speaker 1: who did not speak Spanish. Okay, so my tendency was
Speaker 1: obviously unfortunately not to speak Spanish to my kids. But
Speaker 1: as time went on and they were a little older.
Speaker 1: I did try to get that across to them, and
Speaker 1: my daughter, who had an interest in it, learned Spanish
Speaker 1: and went on to speak at more. My son a
Speaker 1: little bit. My daughter's turning forty this year. My son's
Speaker 1: thirty three, and my daughter is a I would say
Speaker 1: like a non for profit human rights attorney. She's been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of stuff for organizations. She currently works
Speaker 1: for every Town, the gun safety organization. She's SILL one
Speaker 1: of their chief attorneys. So prior to that, she was
Speaker 1: with NILAG, which helped helped a lot of immigrants, especially
Speaker 1: during times when they were it got really heated up politically.
Speaker 1: So she really her Spanish really picked up, and she's
Speaker 1: trying to pass that on to her kids. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big believer and definitely preserving the language.
Speaker 1: I understand where people were coming from where they say no,
Speaker 1: you know, don't speak, don't speak the language at home,
Speaker 1: because they wanted the kids to assimilate and succeed. What
Speaker 1: they didn't think is that what they didn't think of
Speaker 1: is missing out on the that the language is a
Speaker 1: connection back to your country. Because when I go when
Speaker 1: I went back to Peru, and I've gotten back a
Speaker 1: lot since.
Speaker 2: But when I went back, one of my questions, how
Speaker 2: often do you go back?
Speaker 1: Perfect I didn't go back again. I went back when
Speaker 1: I was ten with my with my mom and her
Speaker 1: husband and I think at that time my sister. But
Speaker 1: then I didn't go back again until I was twenty three,
Speaker 1: and that was a shock to me because it was
Speaker 1: it was a culture shock because I hadn't been there
Speaker 1: really as an adult. So it since since I left,
Speaker 1: But I've been back many many times since, and I
Speaker 1: have reassimilated almost back to Peru that when I go back,
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. My Spanish improves and then I
Speaker 1: start dreaming in Spanish. It's kind of weird. So it's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a blast that way.
Speaker 2: Well, good, good segue. What are some of the traditions
Speaker 2: that you've kept in your family? And I just said,
Speaker 2: you know, Joe will bring her own as a as
Speaker 2: an english woman, but you have yours. What have you
Speaker 2: kept any which ones do would you like to pass
Speaker 2: down to your children? Are there any traditions from the
Speaker 2: old country left say that you've that you've kept.
Speaker 1: Well, frankly, there aren't too many, too many traditions. I mean,
Speaker 1: I the only tradition I do try to cook Peruvian food,
Speaker 1: which is very well thought of in in the culinary world.
Speaker 2: Pressure here in Nayak that I know.
Speaker 1: Mars is a very good place. The thing about Peru
Speaker 1: in the culinary world is that it it in its narrowness,
Speaker 1: you can grow and have ninety eight percent of what's
Speaker 1: grown in the world. It's very rich. It's got a coastline,
Speaker 1: it's got mountains, it's got the jungle, it's got rainforest,
Speaker 1: so there's every type of food available. So that's why
Speaker 1: it's that's why it's it's highly thought of culinary wise.
Speaker 1: It's high in minerals, gold, so it's a very rich country. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: politically it's always had some problems. But the tradition, the
Speaker 1: only tradition I think I've tried to keep is that
Speaker 1: Christmas when in Peru and some other South American countries, Uh,
Speaker 1: they wake up the kids at midnight, and which has
Speaker 1: its pros and cons. They open their present and say
Speaker 1: you pretend Santa Claus just left, and they wake up
Speaker 1: and they open their gifts. They stay up till like
Speaker 1: three in the morning. Then they pass out and they
Speaker 1: probably sleep till noon, which I kind of like that
Speaker 1: versus having them wake up in the morning and causing
Speaker 1: all kinds of chaos. But no, so, but you know,
Speaker 1: I've given up on that and we do it in
Speaker 1: the mornings. We did it in the mornings with the kids.
Speaker 1: So tradition wise, other than that, there aren't too many
Speaker 1: traditions really. You know, we celebrate Independence Day when we can,
Speaker 1: and we go out for a Peruvian meal.
Speaker 2: But what is typical Peruvian meal? I know there's a seafood,
Speaker 2: it's a big part. What would would one consider as
Speaker 2: a typical Peruvian dish?
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, they have all types, so from
Speaker 1: seafood to meats. Sevice Is is very famous in Peru,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, typically a really good whitefish marinated
Speaker 1: in lime and and spices, and they make this thing
Speaker 1: called tiger's milk that it marinates in and that's delicious.
Speaker 1: Typically you have that in by the beach lomo, which
Speaker 1: is sort of a Peruvian stirfry if you will. They
Speaker 1: have all kinds of uh seafood chupe come own, which
Speaker 1: is a sort of a stew a buja base if
Speaker 1: you will, with shrimp it's really nice. So, yeah, the
Speaker 1: food is amazing. If you ever go to Peru, the
Speaker 1: thing you'll come back with is, especially in the city,
Speaker 1: is it's it's it's vibrant, you know, restaurants, it's pretty
Speaker 1: pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Me one more question and take a quick break. Uh,
Speaker 2: but when you go back, what would you say to
Speaker 2: people if I wanted to visit Peru? One, two or three?
Speaker 2: Don't miss things? Should anyone go to Peru? In your mind?
Speaker 2: What you know? What are some of the things when
Speaker 2: you got to go here, you got you should see this,
Speaker 2: that or whatever? Give us two, three, four whatever.
Speaker 1: You can go to Husco and then go to Matri Petru.
Speaker 1: Matri Petri is the city, the lost city of the Incas.
Speaker 1: I've been there three times. I've been there from when
Speaker 1: I was by myself at twenty three. Later with my
Speaker 1: son when he was in his early twenties, we went
Speaker 1: on a trip together. And then about four years ago
Speaker 1: with my wife and we did in Contrail with my son.
Speaker 1: We hiked from Pusco all the way down up up
Speaker 1: to you go up, you started about eight thousand feet,
Speaker 1: you go up to about fourteen and then you get
Speaker 1: back down to around ten thousand feet. It's it's quite
Speaker 1: a nice trek and it took three three nights, four
Speaker 1: days and three nights. Uh, you've got to do that
Speaker 1: if you're in if you're in hiking mode. There's all
Speaker 1: kinds of there's the lines of Nasca, which are huge
Speaker 1: sort of drawings in the sand that are made that
Speaker 1: are made of they're carved into the side of the
Speaker 1: mountain that they claim it was it was really guided
Speaker 1: by extraterrestrials because back then in the fourteenth thirteenth century,
Speaker 1: it was kind of thought of impossible to do. Matria
Speaker 1: Peata is amazing because you have walls that you just
Speaker 1: can't understand how they how they joined these giant, giant
Speaker 1: boulders and carved them to meet without you can't put up,
Speaker 1: you can't put a razor blade in between. And again,
Speaker 1: these these rocks were brought from many, many kilometers away,
Speaker 1: so they still don't understand that.
Speaker 2: It's certainly it's certainly on my bucket list.
Speaker 1: George, you know what, Yeah, you gotta go.
Speaker 2: You know, it just sparked all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 2: I thought, and it didn't come to the forefront of
Speaker 2: my thinking. I have to be fair ty Peru with
Speaker 2: batch of Pechu, the World Heritage Sites, it's just spectacular
Speaker 2: the Incas. To talk a little bit about the fact
Speaker 2: that you know, part of your lineage linkage is is
Speaker 2: dates back to this incredible civilization. What does that mean
Speaker 2: to a Peruvian to know that there is this dual connection.
Speaker 2: Obviously that the Spanish influence the language, there also ties
Speaker 2: back to the indigenous people in Peru, the Incas. It's
Speaker 2: got to mean something, I would think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's kind of a double led
Speaker 1: sword because there's still descendants from the Incas in Peru
Speaker 1: that speak Quichua. That's the language. It's an indigenous language
Speaker 1: and it unfortunately, they're seen as peasants there. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of Unfortunately, just like everyone in the.
Speaker 2: World, there's a lot of strategy cast and strategies, races.
Speaker 1: Poverty is the poverty, unfortunately is heartbreaking. So I May
Speaker 1: I did a trip with my cousin who had organized
Speaker 1: a trip one time or Christmas, and literally an hour
Speaker 1: outside of Lima. They're living in poor people which are
Speaker 1: people that sell stuff on the street. They live in
Speaker 1: what's called new towns. Honestly, Porblovites free towns where they've
Speaker 1: just taken a whole area hill and they've built shanty towns, shacks,
Speaker 1: and over time the government has helped out a little bit,
Speaker 1: maybe put electricity or now delivers potable water. But we
Speaker 1: went out there and we fed about I think about
Speaker 1: two hundred kids a meal after Christmas, like a Christmas meal,
Speaker 1: and it's just totally totally heartbreaking. I've been meaning to
Speaker 1: post some of those shots. It's it's a long long
Speaker 1: time ago that we did, I think probably fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: but there is there is still descendants from from that.
Speaker 1: But they live they really live near Cusco, outside outside
Speaker 1: of the city and it's beautiful. They're they're very talented.
Speaker 1: They do a lot of things with tapestries and with
Speaker 1: wool you know, with the woolf from the alpaca and
Speaker 1: the lama and.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it's it's a worthwhile trip. I
Speaker 1: tell anybody that that can go, definitely do it, you know.
Speaker 1: And they're the one thing that I want to point
Speaker 1: out to you there. The the Peruvian liquor is called
Speaker 1: pisco p i s c o. It's like there tequila, okay,
Speaker 1: which is made from actual grapes and raisins and uh
Speaker 1: and so if you go to Peru, you got to
Speaker 1: have an authentic pisco sour, which is like a whiskey sour,
Speaker 1: but made with piso, the only one.
Speaker 2: George, Now between talking about the food and yeah and
Speaker 2: the booze, now I'm hungry the we better make the
Speaker 2: break here, George. All right, great, we're fresh ourselves. We're gonna,
Speaker 2: we're gonna, we will take a little break here. My
Speaker 2: guest is George Pejovi's. We're celebrating LATINX Heritage Month. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is Being Frank. We're the only way to be
Speaker 2: is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Leborona. We're having so
Speaker 2: much fun. Don't go away. Come right back. We've got
Speaker 2: a few more serious questions and we'll continue to have
Speaker 2: some more fun with my guest, George Pejovis. Don't go away.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com, Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 3: This is Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson
Speaker 3: River Radio dot com. Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Being Frank the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. Thanks
Speaker 2: for sticking with us. I'm your host, Frank Lebono and
Speaker 2: as always, our engineer is Neil Richter. You know, we
Speaker 2: bring our audience a fresh topic just about every week,
Speaker 2: and we stream from Hudson River Radio, which is located
Speaker 2: in beautiful and historic Stony Point, New York. But remember
Speaker 2: if you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your
Speaker 2: favorite podcasts, that includes Apple, Spotify, your Heart Radio, all
Speaker 2: the others. And because we're archived, you can listen to
Speaker 2: any program at any time. You can find the link
Speaker 2: to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page
Speaker 2: or at our website Hudson Riverradio dot com. And why
Speaker 2: don't you if you feel I could share our program.
Speaker 2: My very special guest tonight is George Pejovis and we're
Speaker 2: celebrating LATINX Heritage Month. George, let's get back into it.
Speaker 2: Of the big things facing all of us, A huge
Speaker 2: election issue in a very divided nation, and an extremely
Speaker 2: important election is the border, Okay, and migration at the border,
Speaker 2: particularly as it applies to Spanish speaking people, although there
Speaker 2: is an influx of many different people at the border. Uh,
Speaker 2: what is? What are some of your thoughts on what's happening,
Speaker 2: particularly as a LATINX American.
Speaker 1: All right, well, you know, my my impression on this
Speaker 1: is that the the fear mongering of the of people
Speaker 1: coming from trying to come to this country for a
Speaker 1: better life is is successive. It's it's too much of
Speaker 1: too much fear where and what what what what hurts
Speaker 1: me or bothers me is that people for get that
Speaker 1: we are all immigrants or sons of immigrants or daughters
Speaker 1: of immigrants unless you're a Native American, you know, and
Speaker 1: then the really the border cross stew you didn't cross
Speaker 1: the border.
Speaker 2: We abuse them so so much for that, right George, But.
Speaker 1: That's exactly exactly and what what and what it does
Speaker 1: irk me? But I'm not sure. I know that people
Speaker 1: are trying to come here for a better life from
Speaker 1: without getting into too deep of a discussion about it,
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of Central American countries,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cartels and gang warfare that that
Speaker 1: sometimes has been created by certain policies that we had
Speaker 1: in the past and are and people are trying to
Speaker 1: get out of there and they're victims of sometimes of
Speaker 1: the policies that have were created in the United States.
Speaker 1: So people did a little research realize that you know,
Speaker 1: very often people want to come here, not just because
Speaker 1: it's streets of paper gold, it's out of saving lives.
Speaker 1: And if you don't remember why your parents came here,
Speaker 1: whether it's legally or illegally, it doesn't really matter it really.
Speaker 1: You know, it does concern me that we do need
Speaker 1: better policies, better control, but I think things also get
Speaker 1: out of control, and there is no perfect situation. It
Speaker 1: hasn't been perfect for many, many administrations. So I think
Speaker 1: that we have to tackle it. But obviously, recently a
Speaker 1: bill was put together and put in front of the
Speaker 1: House and it was turned down, and it is apparently
Speaker 1: one of the most conservative, you know, immigration bills, drafted
Speaker 1: primarily by a Republican and you know, Donald Trump called
Speaker 1: his boys and said, let's let's I don't want to
Speaker 1: knock it down because it's not going to help me
Speaker 1: if you if you do something good under the Biden administration.
Speaker 1: So that's pretty sad that it's gotten that that contentious,
Speaker 1: and frankly, you could say.
Speaker 2: Something to Donald Trump and you know, let's say he
Speaker 2: is the instigator. Certainly is the top of the pyramid,
Speaker 2: if you will he's he's got enough people supporting him
Speaker 2: from below and using this issue as a cudgel. I mean,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, and I think most thinking, rational, reasonable
Speaker 2: people realize that there has to be some border control. Uh,
Speaker 2: there has to be some policy.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: But the idea of deporting these mass deportations and and
Speaker 2: all of these people coming or rapists and and feeding
Speaker 2: the flames of fear. If you had an opportunity to
Speaker 2: to speak to a man like that, directly to Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: what might you say.
Speaker 1: Get a life, take go, take your go, take your billions,
Speaker 1: and go enjoy yourself. Because you're not a good administrator,
Speaker 1: you know. I just think that that he at this
Speaker 1: point is just running to stay out of jail. Let's
Speaker 1: face it. But I really think the man has serious
Speaker 1: emotional and psychological issues. And but in as far as
Speaker 1: really this is concerned, is that everybody needs the help
Speaker 1: out here. If you if you deported eleven million people,
Speaker 1: no one would be able to take care of children
Speaker 1: after school, No one would be able to run the restaurants,
Speaker 1: No about be able to cut your grass, landscape, your property,
Speaker 1: you know, serve you, you know, just look around. Primarily
Speaker 1: that that labor force is immigrant population, undocumented or undocumented.
Speaker 1: Nobody is illegal. We're all legal human being. We're just
Speaker 1: either document or not documented. And those reasons are varied,
Speaker 1: just like the people are. You know, there's all grays.
Speaker 1: What's happening in this country is would you black and white?
Speaker 1: It's this or that. We don't understand that there is
Speaker 1: there's nuance and there are people that are suffering. And
Speaker 1: if that was your family or your parents, would you
Speaker 1: would you do that to them? You know, they just
Speaker 1: people to have. The lack of empathy that has has
Speaker 1: been created for the last ten years is mind boggling.
Speaker 1: You know, we just don't work with that, with that
Speaker 1: emotion anymore. That's my opinion about that.
Speaker 2: Well, Georgie, And that's a good segue into my next question.
Speaker 2: You really are about service, and I'm just not feeding
Speaker 2: your enormous ego. You know, we have competing people can't
Speaker 2: see it, but you're laughing, and I'm glad.
Speaker 1: That you A little bit of ego doesn't hurt.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of I make no bones about it, George.
Speaker 2: But having a healthy ego.
Speaker 1: Is about I noticed your name.
Speaker 2: I noticed your name is in the title of your program,
Speaker 2: so it's yeh, little things like you notice that, George,
Speaker 2: it's just you notice it's done deliberately for what it's worth.
Speaker 2: But I do want to say and and it's the truth.
Speaker 2: And when I when I put out a little promo
Speaker 2: about you appearing, and how many people say, oh, I
Speaker 2: love George, and I love because you're all about service
Speaker 2: in what you do for a living, uh, in your
Speaker 2: mortgage company, but also what you do with your passion,
Speaker 2: your photography, your involvement with organizations like people to people.
Speaker 2: You've organized a cornhole tournament up with the Redborne Sidary
Speaker 2: which raised a lot of money. You're always there for
Speaker 2: people in so many ways. Talk a little bit about that, George.
Speaker 2: Why that's important to you, Well, you know.
Speaker 1: It's it's doing to others type of thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not. I'm a religious person. I do
Speaker 1: believe in the Golden Rule, you know, and we're all.
Speaker 1: This is another thing I would tell Donald is that
Speaker 1: you didn't do it all. Pal. You're on somebody's shoulders. Everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody wherever they are are there because somebody helped them out,
Speaker 1: Somebody gave them a break, somebody gave them a job,
Speaker 1: Somebody lent them some money, somebody inherited some money, somebody
Speaker 1: did something for them. So I you know the little
Speaker 1: bit listen, I'm my means are not limitless, but what
Speaker 1: I can do I try to do if I can
Speaker 1: fit it in you know, my schedule, or do whatever
Speaker 1: I can. I've been fortunate for the last thirty eight
Speaker 1: years to be in the home finance business. I diverted
Speaker 1: from becoming afforded journalists because suddenly I had a family
Speaker 1: and to support, and back in the eighties, becoming a
Speaker 1: photographer would have taken would have taken a big toll
Speaker 1: on my relationship and in my family. So, you know,
Speaker 1: being a rock and roll photographer and a dad is
Speaker 1: it doesn't really blend too well for long periods of time,
Speaker 1: not for long periods of time. But I I just
Speaker 1: believe in in helping out whenever I can, because if
Speaker 1: you know you have enough, you know, take what you
Speaker 1: need to leave the rest, you know, and create and create,
Speaker 1: try to create a little bit of happiness wherever you can,
Speaker 1: because it's so much easier to do that than the
Speaker 1: results of doing that is so much better than creating havoc.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I can be a very grumpy guy.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, but I uh, I try to
Speaker 1: I try to look at things have full and try
Speaker 1: to help out whenever I can. And these organizations have
Speaker 1: been good to me. They've hired me for these a
Speaker 1: lot of their their events. You know, I obviously don't
Speaker 1: charge them well too much, but so I wanted to
Speaker 1: get them. I wanted to get something back to them.
Speaker 1: So these cornhole tournaments that we did, we did, We're
Speaker 1: doing it biannually, we're doing it again next year. It
Speaker 1: you know, trying to get back to the organizations that
Speaker 1: help help the community because they're they're small organizations that
Speaker 1: do a lot of good. You know, people to people,
Speaker 1: Pride Center for Safety and Change in the Nayac Center,
Speaker 1: which is probably the smallest, really old community center that
Speaker 1: help children, families that are are not a bit of
Speaker 1: heavy means and help them out as much as possible.
Speaker 2: So that really I'll see you. I'll see you at
Speaker 2: good Fest, which is coming up, the big Absolutely we're
Speaker 2: gonna be a fundraiser for People to people we'll be
Speaker 2: talking about that's a great event. Some final thoughts on
Speaker 2: so called LATINX Hispanic heritage. Any final thoughts.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: Latinos and Hispanics that have contributed in every field and
Speaker 1: you know, politics and fashion and entertainment arts that have
Speaker 1: shaped the world. And I just think it's important, I think,
Speaker 1: in this kind of when they have these months of celebration,
Speaker 1: is to remember that everybody plays a part in this
Speaker 1: mosaic that we have in this world. And if you
Speaker 1: demonize any one of them, you're demonizing everyone. You know,
Speaker 1: we can't live without immigrants, we can't live without you know,
Speaker 1: LGBTQ people. We cannot survive in this community because they
Speaker 1: are an integral part of our cultural survival. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like suddenly saying, hey, doctors are bad, let's get
Speaker 1: rid of doctors. No, They're an integral part of our community.
Speaker 1: You know, because you have one bad doctor who maybe
Speaker 1: committed crimes or whatever doesn't sweep the entire broad brush
Speaker 1: of everybody. So I think it's important that everybody just
Speaker 1: takes a breath and says, you know, why am I
Speaker 1: being such a you know jerk, Let's let me think
Speaker 1: this is through. And I've had moments of that that
Speaker 1: I you know, everybody has sometimes a little bit of
Speaker 1: of of discrimination, you know, because they have an experience,
Speaker 1: and I think everybody's got to work it through and
Speaker 1: try to understand each other.
Speaker 2: That's all it is, you know, like a family, you know,
Speaker 2: like one one great big thing. It's a very Latin thing,
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, you know, being exactly one of the
Speaker 2: original lives.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll have our dysfunctional our dysfunctional relative and sometimes
Speaker 1: it's yourself.
Speaker 2: I have to laugh a man of my partners, you know,
Speaker 2: you should do well, one of the ancestry, one of
Speaker 2: those ancestry things. And I said, I'm a Sicilian. The
Speaker 2: thing will be thirty six pages long. So we're all well,
Speaker 2: I guess we're all a little bit of everybody, George.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe that's my finnell.
Speaker 1: We're all we're all one little piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 1: So let's take it easy on ourselves, you.
Speaker 2: Know, George, I want to I really want to thank
Speaker 2: you for being frank with your with your intelligent conversation.
Speaker 2: I get all my little flights in there, but really,
Speaker 2: thanks George. Been a lot of fun and well.
Speaker 1: I hope I I hope I made it under the
Speaker 1: bar of intelligence. But I really appreciate you having me
Speaker 1: on I appreciate what you do. You really you know,
Speaker 1: you have great conversations about about important things, so.
Speaker 2: That means that means a lot to me. It really does.
Speaker 2: And of course we offer special thanks to our listeners
Speaker 2: who take time to give us a voice in their lives.
Speaker 2: You know, we offer fresh topic every week and you
Speaker 2: can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts.
Speaker 2: Check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page.
Speaker 2: Leave us a comment and you can. We ask you
Speaker 2: to consider sharing being frank with others. You know, always
Speaker 2: leave you with two last little nuggets I called them
Speaker 2: and George mentioned the great contributions that latinos Latin X
Speaker 2: people have made, including in the world of fashion. And
Speaker 2: this one is a good one. I think it's broad.
Speaker 2: It's a broad statement for everybody. It's from Oscar de
Speaker 2: la Rena and he said, your great strength is knowing
Speaker 2: who you are, simple, direct and important, and I like it.
Speaker 2: We're going to have some music too from Bobby Deblasio
Speaker 2: with l Dento again a Latin language Italian also happens
Speaker 2: to be. As I said, all Latin romance based language
Speaker 2: is they share a lot for our engineer Neil Richter.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Frank Lobono, and we hope to have
Speaker 2: you join us on the next being Frank, We're the
Speaker 2: only way to be is Frank. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: I had to break my silence. I had to come
Speaker 1: clean without being facetious, trying not to sound me. I
Speaker 1: told her that I loved her. I told her that
Speaker 1: I love gone.
Speaker 2: When I told her that I loved her, she told
Speaker 2: me that she loved me. And so you could have
Speaker 2: knocked me over with a feather.
Speaker 1: She was going like a June briant, like a ship
Speaker 1: been stormy weather. I was terrified when I told.
Speaker 3: Her that I loved her.
Speaker 1: I told her that I had never gone. When I
Speaker 1: told her that I loved her.
Speaker 2: She told me that she loved me. So, mother Lord,
Speaker 2: love can go.
Speaker 1: Long word.
Speaker 3: Where the ring good thing?
Speaker 1: Saying there's rice way now of that Confetti's drinking, wondering
Speaker 1: what I've done. I should have kept my silence. Now
Speaker 1: I gotta run because I told her that I loved
Speaker 1: I told her that I love.
Speaker 2: When I told her that I loved her, she told me.
Speaker 1: That she loved me. So tell me where there's the
Speaker 1: time go away?
Speaker 2: Does it go? Tell me where just the time.
Speaker 1: Go ohway does it go? Tell me where.
Speaker 2: That's the time?
Speaker 3: Go oh way.
Speaker 2: Does it go? Tell me where that's the time?
Speaker 1: Go oh way.
Speaker 3: Does it go?
Speaker 2: This is Hudson River Radio dot com.