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<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, it's Jack.

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to talk to you today about a

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<v Speaker 2>way that you can help support the podcast if you're

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<v Speaker 2>not already to support the channel is to become a

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<v Speaker 2>Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at

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<v Speaker 2>just five dollars a month, and when you sign up,

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<v Speaker 2>you get access to all of our episodes add free.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also

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<v Speaker 2>do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this

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<v Speaker 2>is the biggest and best way that you can support

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<v Speaker 2>the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to, and

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<v Speaker 2>we really appreciate that, So go and check us out

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<v Speaker 2>at patreon dot com, Slash The Teamhouse.

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<v Speaker 3>Special Operations, Cobert Osspionage, The Team House with Your Hopes,

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<v Speaker 3>Jack Murphy and David Bark.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, folks, welcome to episode two hundred and eighty eight

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<v Speaker 2>of The Team House.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Jack Murphy here with David park.

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<v Speaker 2>Our guest on tonight's show is former Ranger and former

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<v Speaker 2>Delta Force operator Dave Nielsen. Really happy to have him

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<v Speaker 2>on the show tonight. Has an incredible story to tell.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to tell you, guys before we jump into it,

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<v Speaker 2>about Caman cigar. I don't know if you noticed, but

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<v Speaker 2>this place is a little bit of an underground cigar

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<v Speaker 2>lounge that we have here in Brooklyn. I love smoking cigars.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something to do to unwind and relax and just

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<v Speaker 2>kick back for a little bit and maybe not think

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<v Speaker 2>about work. So I'm a big cigar guy. I've become

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<v Speaker 2>a big cigar guy, and I hope that you guys

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<v Speaker 2>will check out Caman Cigars. So we're sponsored by them.

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<v Speaker 2>They bank premium cigars using the highest quality Caribbean tobacco,

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<v Speaker 2>and the cigars are hand rolled by master cigar rollers.

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<v Speaker 2>What makes Caman so unique is that they are the

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<v Speaker 2>world's only premium cigar company to donate one of net

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<v Speaker 2>profits to charity. Every dollar they don't use to roll

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<v Speaker 2>cigars goes back into local and international charitable organizations, from

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<v Speaker 2>creating entrepreneurial opportunities for marginalized populations, to supporting the self

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<v Speaker 2>sufficiency of those addicted those an addiction recovery, to providing

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<v Speaker 2>specialized assistance to US veterans. So just for Teamhouse listeners,

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<v Speaker 2>they've created a custom sampler pack so you can enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>all of their top cigars and one pack head on

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<v Speaker 2>over to cigars dot com slash teamhouse to is that

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<v Speaker 2>what I said? Camancigars dot com slash teamhouse to check

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<v Speaker 2>out the sampler. I just smoked one of these cigars

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<v Speaker 2>this afternoon. I'm on my second. Now please go check

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<v Speaker 2>them out. And what else do I need to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you here? So enjoy a cigar and give back to

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<v Speaker 2>those in need. Head to Kman Cigars dot com teamhouse

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<v Speaker 2>to check out our Sanapore while supplies last, and use

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<v Speaker 2>the code Teamhouse for ten percent off your order. Once again,

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<v Speaker 2>that's Cayman Cigars with an s dot com backslash teamhouse

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<v Speaker 2>for ten percent off, and make sure you use my

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<v Speaker 2>promo code Teamhouse so they know I sent you. So

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<v Speaker 2>please go check out our sponsor. Guys, we really appreciate it, and.

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<v Speaker 4>We have one more sponsor. And I just want to

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<v Speaker 4>caveat this for saying I am a.

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<v Speaker 5>Hot sleeper, like if it's not sixty.

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<v Speaker 4>Eight is my start point, and sixty eight is even

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<v Speaker 4>mildly uncomfortable for me.

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<v Speaker 5>It's got to be closer to sixty four.

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<v Speaker 4>Somewhere between fifty eight and sixty four is where I'm comfortable.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, when you're in a relationship you never get that,

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<v Speaker 4>so I found my savior, ghost Bed. If you sleep

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<v Speaker 4>hot at night like I do, you know just how

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<v Speaker 4>disruptive it can be, whether you're having trouble falling asleep,

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<v Speaker 4>you're waking up sweating in the middle night, or all

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<v Speaker 4>the above.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, all the.

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<v Speaker 4>Where I have to like put throw my pillow in

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<v Speaker 4>the dryer at the end of the day. That's where

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<v Speaker 4>Ghostbed can help. As the makers are the coolest beds

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<v Speaker 4>your body tempature, every Ghostbed mattress is designed with cooling

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<v Speaker 4>and mind so whether you want a plusure mattress that

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<v Speaker 4>cushions your shoulders and hips, or a firmer option with

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<v Speaker 4>exceptional support, your ghost Bed will keep you.

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<v Speaker 5>Cool and comfortable all night long.

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<v Speaker 4>When you purchased a Ghostbed mattress, your comfort is guaranteed.

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<v Speaker 5>You can try out a mattress for.

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<v Speaker 5>If you're not.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure which ghost bed is for you, check out their

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<v Speaker 4>team of sleep experts for all the help you need.

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<v Speaker 4>Even better, Ghostbeds listers can get fifty site wide for

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<v Speaker 4>house and use code house at checkout. Again, that's fifty

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<v Speaker 4>percent off ghost beds dot com with code.

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<v Speaker 5>House at checkout. They also have great cooling pillows, cooling linen.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a cool experience. It's like fonsie.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, all right, Dave, thank you so much for joining

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<v Speaker 4>us and I we really really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 6>Dave. It's great to be here at Jack. I'm literally

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<v Speaker 6>like writing down Cayman Cigars and ghost bed because you

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<v Speaker 6>guys are good at that. I need that.

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<v Speaker 5>Are you a hot sleeper?

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, but my wife is just coming through a certain

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<v Speaker 6>period in life and she's liking it cool now, so

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<v Speaker 6>we're almost But.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I wonder because sometimes, you know, I've had hypothermia,

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<v Speaker 4>and obviously we spend a lot of time in the desert.

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<v Speaker 5>I wonder if that does something to your body's ability

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<v Speaker 5>to regulate.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm sure it does, I really think so. Yeah, Like

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<v Speaker 6>I can handle the sun now, it doesn't like cook me.

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<v Speaker 6>But just last week, you know, coaching football, I hit

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<v Speaker 6>a point. I'm like, guys, I'm going in the shade

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<v Speaker 6>and side lampbagers follow me. I mean yeah, because how

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<v Speaker 6>many heat cats But first one was on a sniper

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<v Speaker 6>stock man and training, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>I just out, yeah, yeah, Dave.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you know what we asked most

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<v Speaker 2>of our guests about their origin story to start off,

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<v Speaker 2>if you could tell us a little bit about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>where you grew up, what your upbringing was like, and

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<v Speaker 2>what was you know, that path that took you towards

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<v Speaker 2>the military.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah. Thanks. So I'm from Michigan. My mom lived in

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<v Speaker 6>the city, you know, parents divorced real early, two older sisters,

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<v Speaker 6>younger brother, and I lived in the suburbs with my

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<v Speaker 6>dad about forty five minutes north in a little town

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<v Speaker 6>called Lake Orian, back and forth from the city. My

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<v Speaker 6>mom is married to a black man to the suburbs

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<v Speaker 6>and that was I didn't know it at the time.

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<v Speaker 6>Me and my brother were just like you know, but

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<v Speaker 6>it was now I know that that was an extreme

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<v Speaker 6>culture shock that we lived in and it made us better.

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<v Speaker 6>So that was in the eighties. But I ended up,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, after high school. I knew I wanted to

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<v Speaker 6>drink beer and I liked like literally, I'm not even

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<v Speaker 6>trying to that's all I could figure out that I

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<v Speaker 6>liked and and you know girls. So I ended up

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<v Speaker 6>homeless and sleeping in my car and it was cold

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<v Speaker 6>in February in Detroit, and you know, I was even

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<v Speaker 6>okay with that because I had a little job. I

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<v Speaker 6>had enough money for beer and food. And then somebody

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<v Speaker 6>broke into my Ford Granada one night. I'm going, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>it stole my little speakers, and that was something just

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<v Speaker 6>set me off there. So I went to the recruiter.

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<v Speaker 6>I never had anybody in my family in the military.

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<v Speaker 6>I just had some friends do it, and it just

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<v Speaker 6>never seemed like it was for me. But when that happened,

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<v Speaker 6>I knew I wanted shelter in food, and so I

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<v Speaker 6>went there and I didn't know anything that I was doing.

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<v Speaker 6>I ended up with the Ranger contract kind of on accident.

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<v Speaker 6>But once I got there and we started walking with

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<v Speaker 6>weight on our back and being tested. I found that

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<v Speaker 6>the very hard life that i'd had, the abusive childhood

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<v Speaker 6>and straight up drama that I had endured, God was

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<v Speaker 6>using for a reason, and that was that I found

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<v Speaker 6>that I had this mental toughness that you couldn't make

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<v Speaker 6>me quit. And that's how I succeeded in the army.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, the first first phase anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you said you ended up with a ranger

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<v Speaker 2>contract by accident. I mean, how does that happen? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>did you guys go in there and say, give me

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<v Speaker 2>the hardest thing you have, or did they say, like

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<v Speaker 2>push that across the desk, like we got this for

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<v Speaker 2>you right here, pal sign that.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, when I tell this, it sounds like the old

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<v Speaker 6>you know, well, it was either go to jail or

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<v Speaker 6>go in the army. I don't know if I believe

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<v Speaker 6>those all the time, but this really happened. I was like,

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<v Speaker 6>I just wanted to go to a cool location. I

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<v Speaker 6>didn't know anything about anything. I wanted to go to war.

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<v Speaker 6>When I was sixteen, I said, if our country goes

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<v Speaker 6>to war, I'm gonna enlist. And everybody about you know,

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<v Speaker 6>screeching halt at the table. But I just had that

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<v Speaker 6>Emmy in nineteen eighty six. You know, the movie Platoon

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<v Speaker 6>came out somewhere in there, and I just love that

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<v Speaker 6>movie and sought out the Vietnam ra vets. There's a

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<v Speaker 6>book Charlie Rangers read that over and over and once

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<v Speaker 6>I was in. But so yeah, so I'm going in

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<v Speaker 6>and I'm like, I'm trying to get to California or Hawaii.

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<v Speaker 6>And the recruiters are they had me in some a

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<v Speaker 6>tank unit. You know, I didn't even care about the job.

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<v Speaker 6>I just wanted location. So I'm going into the map station.

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<v Speaker 6>My buddies are driving me from Detroit to Cleveland. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>long story. But we're drinking old Milwaukee lights and I'm

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<v Speaker 6>not you know, I'm not driving. I'm in the backseat,

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<v Speaker 6>but I tipped one and uh right as we went

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<v Speaker 6>by a state police officer. So I got a minor

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<v Speaker 6>in possession of alcohol ticket on the way to the

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<v Speaker 6>maps and I knew that wasn't going to go over well,

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<v Speaker 6>and of course it didn't, and he was, you know, okay,

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<v Speaker 6>you screwed this up. You gotta leave, come back in

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<v Speaker 6>two weeks. Maybe. As I'm walking out the door, he said, hey,

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<v Speaker 6>do you want to do you want to be a ranger?

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<v Speaker 6>I can send you right now on a ranger contract.

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<v Speaker 6>And I said, yeah, okay, I knew a little bit

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<v Speaker 6>about it at that point. I said yeah, And that

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<v Speaker 6>made me excited. And you know, we all need a

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<v Speaker 6>challenge and to find our purpose. So that was the

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<v Speaker 6>start of it, and I left right then. I you know,

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<v Speaker 6>that night, I was in a hotel room and starting

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<v Speaker 6>that whole process.

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<v Speaker 2>It's you know, when you tell your story, it reminds

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<v Speaker 2>me of you know, we had another a British military

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<v Speaker 2>veteran on who had a very traumatic childhood and there's

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<v Speaker 2>something he said about joining the army really struck with me.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, it was the first time I ever felt safe,

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<v Speaker 2>which as a as a forty one year old man

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<v Speaker 2>and a father today, like, that's such a horrifying thing

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<v Speaker 2>to hear. I'm glad that he found some measure of

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<v Speaker 2>safety in the military.

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<v Speaker 6>Though, of course, yeah, that's saying a lot. I love that.

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<v Speaker 2>So for you, it was sort of an escape from

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<v Speaker 2>from a pretty troubled background.

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<v Speaker 6>It sounds like, yeah, and it was easy. It was

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<v Speaker 6>security and you know, people were crying and all that,

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<v Speaker 6>and I get it. They had, you know, good families,

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<v Speaker 6>but like like now I know I'm going to get

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<v Speaker 6>food and I'm not in Detroit on the streets like

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<v Speaker 6>that was dangerous in itself. I used to just sometimes

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<v Speaker 6>going to work at four in the morning, I would

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<v Speaker 6>like start running, acting like I'm already being chased to

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<v Speaker 6>avoid you know, certain situations. So yeah, it was it

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<v Speaker 6>was good to be in and it just it was

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<v Speaker 6>so easy, Like even the hard stuff, it's just I laughed,

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<v Speaker 6>and it's not. You know that the toughness comes from

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<v Speaker 6>from I don't know where, but I think it's in

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<v Speaker 6>all most of us, especially if you know that you

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<v Speaker 6>got something like man, go walk it out, go put

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<v Speaker 6>it on the line, take a risk.

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<v Speaker 4>We actually when we were on any Stump show, we

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<v Speaker 4>talked about this that there's probably a large problems of.

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<v Speaker 5>People in special operations who are here. There were either.

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<v Speaker 4>Like adult children of alcoholics, had had like childhood trauma

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<v Speaker 4>things like that, and so the idea of quitting just

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<v Speaker 4>because you're in pain.

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<v Speaker 6>Is like so right, yeah, and I am seeing that

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<v Speaker 6>that's common. You're right when I a couple of the

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<v Speaker 6>Australians said, yeah, it's a common thing, and it threw

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<v Speaker 6>me for such a loop when it was Tom Brown

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<v Speaker 6>in nine Origins. He's like, asked, you know about my childhood,

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<v Speaker 6>and you guys are doing the same like it's it's real,

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<v Speaker 6>but that's not stuff you talk about in the regiment. Well,

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<v Speaker 6>I guess we do. But it's more like you know,

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<v Speaker 6>leverage to use against you.

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<v Speaker 4>Joke around about you Like you have to joke around

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<v Speaker 4>about it because if people know that your sensitive about it,

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<v Speaker 4>they're going to use it all the time.

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<v Speaker 6>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, So like a nickname don't eat, don't fight, a nickname.

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<v Speaker 2>You get to range for battalion in the nineteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a different time.

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like you were? You were a two

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<v Speaker 1>seven five guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so tell us about like landing in Savannah and

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<v Speaker 2>what wife was like in one seven five the year

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<v Speaker 2>you got there?

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<v Speaker 6>Yep. So eighty nine. Uh started in April, so it

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<v Speaker 6>was through the summer. I get through rip and did

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<v Speaker 6>pretty well and just you know, I think we had

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<v Speaker 6>twelve guys make it out of sixty five or something,

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<v Speaker 6>so you know, E two, no E one Nielsen. I'm

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<v Speaker 6>just feeling like I got that black Beret man, like

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<v Speaker 6>feeling really good, and then I knew the shock was

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<v Speaker 6>coming and it came. But you know, again it was

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<v Speaker 6>like this is okay to Aspect four is like cool,

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<v Speaker 6>I want to be that. And it was brutal like

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<v Speaker 6>nothing else ever since Ranger Private that. I mean, there's nothing.

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<v Speaker 6>There's no harder period of my life than that as

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<v Speaker 6>a Ranger private.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and very quickly it sounds like after you get there,

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<v Speaker 2>Panama kicks off.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah. So I'm assigned to b COO uh one seven

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<v Speaker 6>second platoon. I start out in in second squad. I

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<v Speaker 6>think on a fire team, and then got moved a

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<v Speaker 6>weapons so I'm the weapon squad. I'm like it was

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<v Speaker 6>like literally like they put the small guys, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>I'm like five seven, yeah, one sixty. They put all

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<v Speaker 6>those dudes in weapons just as a joke because that's funny.

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<v Speaker 6>Look at them they gotta But again it's like all right,

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<v Speaker 6>go ahead and try me. So get were there and

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<v Speaker 6>uh so we sat around talking thinking about Grenada, which

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<v Speaker 6>had happened in eighty three, like ooh a combat jump,

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<v Speaker 6>our portuns start and had you know, the old fat

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<v Speaker 6>scroll on his right shoulder, and it was just like

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<v Speaker 6>Dave you mentioned earlier what it was like to see

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<v Speaker 6>that later on, and so you would talk about Grenada

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<v Speaker 6>and this is eighty nine and Grenade was in eighty three,

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<v Speaker 6>and at that time, you know, as young privates, eighteen

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<v Speaker 6>nineteen year old, it was like that will never happen again.

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<v Speaker 6>That was so long ago. It's six years ago. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 6>and that was like one of the first times, you know,

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00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.279
<v Speaker 6>Jaysack tried to use all the pieces together and learned

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00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:26.480
<v Speaker 6>so much. But yeah, December seventeenth. It happened on the twentieth.

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<v Speaker 6>But you know, we got alerted and all that a

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<v Speaker 6>couple of days before and literally getting ready to go

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<v Speaker 6>on leave my first leave in ten months of being

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<v Speaker 6>in the Army to see a girl in Henderson, Nevada,

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<v Speaker 6>and we were Bravo alerted that that night, I was

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<v Speaker 6>watching The Simpsons on TV packing to go on leave,

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00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.519
<v Speaker 6>and you know, Bravo alert, get your shit fall out downstairs,

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<v Speaker 6>Like right, I saw real quick.

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<v Speaker 1>You never know if it's just a training, it's this

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<v Speaker 1>the real deal.

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<v Speaker 4>And even it's a real deal, like, what's the chance

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00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.279
<v Speaker 4>is actually gonna happen?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I just want to follow a train of fight here.

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00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:13.799
<v Speaker 4>So you're a young Joe in Georgia and you're going

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<v Speaker 4>to see a girl who is now.

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<v Speaker 5>In Las Vegas. Was her vocation artistic and.

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00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.839
<v Speaker 6>At the time she had lived in Michigan Bay And yeah,

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00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.759
<v Speaker 6>child a sweethearts but yeah, okay, good intentions, but yeah,

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00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.480
<v Speaker 6>it's good that that didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 2>So can you walk us through a little bit of

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00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.079
<v Speaker 2>the process, because I was saying before we started the show,

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00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm reading this book about the Jumping Grenada right now

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00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and it's very interesting to hear like kind of that

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00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:54.720
<v Speaker 2>process of like getting alerted, bringing the guys in, briefing

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00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:58.359
<v Speaker 2>them up, getting them ready to jump jmp I, getting

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<v Speaker 2>them on the point. I mean, could you kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like walk us through what that experience was like for

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<v Speaker 2>you as a as a private and ranger battalion.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it was. There's no other time like it in

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<v Speaker 6>my life really, And you know, since then, been on

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00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.440
<v Speaker 6>about six hundred combat missions. I got journals and this

327
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.599
<v Speaker 6>and so much, but there's nothing like that. One man,

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<v Speaker 6>because some of the guys quit that had just graduated

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00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.279
<v Speaker 6>with me from rit I saw him out in the

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00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.480
<v Speaker 6>hallway like handing their black brads to their space. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 6>what are you, what's going on starting Rummels my gun

332
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.640
<v Speaker 6>team leader. They're quitting Lanier, I had this nickname, Lanier Lanier.

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<v Speaker 6>They're quitting. You're gonna quit. I was like, no, of

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00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.119
<v Speaker 6>course not, well you're not going on the jump and

335
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.799
<v Speaker 6>I was like why, you know, we'll room and I

336
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:50.839
<v Speaker 6>just was like specialist rumbles, I need to go. You know,

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00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.119
<v Speaker 6>we've trained together and he we had a He's like

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00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:54.599
<v Speaker 6>the best leader I've ever had to this day. We

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00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:59.839
<v Speaker 6>talk all the time, thirty some years later. So it

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00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.640
<v Speaker 6>was like I find out I'm going pretty you know,

341
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.599
<v Speaker 6>pretty quick after that. So it was just NonStop details AMMO.

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00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.000
<v Speaker 6>Mostly a little child here and there, hurry up and sleep.

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<v Speaker 6>And then they had terrain models like that were like

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<v Speaker 6>twenty feet long. I mean they didn't just make those. Yeah,

345
00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:28.640
<v Speaker 6>we had you know, briefs and briefs and it's very frightening. Mostly,

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00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.599
<v Speaker 6>you know what, man, I've learned telling stories. It's like,

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00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.519
<v Speaker 6>the reason I have been hesitant is because I don't

348
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.279
<v Speaker 6>want to get it wrong. I don't want to leave

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00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.960
<v Speaker 6>somebody out like that is the most important. That's why

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<v Speaker 6>I'm so hesitant sometimes to come on social media. And

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<v Speaker 6>I do it a little bit and I see that.

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<v Speaker 6>You know what's worse than that not trying? Right? So yeah,

353
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<v Speaker 6>where we were, uh, it was just so model.

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<v Speaker 4>He had enough, Yeah, he had enough washed to to

355
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.279
<v Speaker 4>get somebody from the five shot. Some major kicked off

356
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.400
<v Speaker 4>the jump so an actual combatant could go exactly.

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<v Speaker 6>That happened a little bit, I think in Panama. Then

358
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.480
<v Speaker 6>got worse and worse with the jumps in Afghanistan and

359
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.240
<v Speaker 6>all that. But yeah, I end up on the first chalk.

360
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<v Speaker 6>I'm the ninth man out on the first bird, on

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<v Speaker 6>the left side of A one. And we had we

362
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<v Speaker 6>had jumped a few times in battalion. I mean, it's

363
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:34.000
<v Speaker 6>it's brutal, eight hundred feet you know, six hundred rounds whatever,

364
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.519
<v Speaker 6>you know, tripod and lots and lots and lots of wait.

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<v Speaker 6>And the worst part was just you know, I learned

366
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:48.720
<v Speaker 6>that this was I always thought it wasn't necessary. We

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<v Speaker 6>got to the airfield and we sit and we wait

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<v Speaker 6>for hours and hours every time in the hot sun

369
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<v Speaker 6>and in the rain, and this time it was in

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<v Speaker 6>the rain. And so we rig up and we get

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<v Speaker 6>on at like I don't know, seven o'clock at night.

372
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.839
<v Speaker 6>It's getting dark, it's raining, and it's cold, at Saber

373
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<v Speaker 6>Hall Hunter ourmy airfield. We're rigged up so much weight

374
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.480
<v Speaker 6>in our rucks and we get on the birds and

375
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:19.119
<v Speaker 6>it's a six hour flight and you know, golly, man,

376
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.039
<v Speaker 6>thinking back, there is just no suck like range of battalions.

377
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.640
<v Speaker 6>I mean, it's so hard to explain. I've tried and

378
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.960
<v Speaker 6>tried and tried. I wanted to quit, I wanted to

379
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.640
<v Speaker 6>get hurt, not here in Panama, but just it was

380
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:38.240
<v Speaker 6>so hard my first training mission and battalion, you know,

381
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.039
<v Speaker 6>we fast roped in. I'm sorry and get off track,

382
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.880
<v Speaker 6>but like got to give credit and explain what it's

383
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.599
<v Speaker 6>like roped in off of Chinook, you know, into Fort McClellan, Alabama,

384
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.440
<v Speaker 6>and walk all night in the dark, right with no

385
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:59.440
<v Speaker 6>GPS back then compasses and pace count and somehow find

386
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.519
<v Speaker 6>what we're likeing for. And it's just such a shock

387
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:05.000
<v Speaker 6>to me to be walking through the woods all night.

388
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:11.799
<v Speaker 6>Nobody talks. You're so tired, can't smoke, you can't, you know,

389
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.519
<v Speaker 6>you just suck it up. You learn to like do it.

390
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.960
<v Speaker 6>And it's so hard. So we're on the plane, man,

391
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:23.880
<v Speaker 6>and they opened the doors after six hours of this

392
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:28.039
<v Speaker 6>long flight, and the air came in it was warm air.

393
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:34.359
<v Speaker 6>It felt so so good and until I you know,

394
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:38.440
<v Speaker 6>saw orange snakes in the air and heard round hitting

395
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:45.519
<v Speaker 6>the plane, and it was like a mix, an equal

396
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.279
<v Speaker 6>mix of total excitement, like I want to go to war.

397
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.200
<v Speaker 6>I need to go to war. I need to test myself.

398
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.759
<v Speaker 6>Am I a man? I want to find the most

399
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 6>difficult thing that scares me, which is war dying. Really

400
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.720
<v Speaker 6>I want to confront it. And my life is so

401
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 6>miserable anyways, as a range of private, like I want

402
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:10.599
<v Speaker 6>to see. I wanted to conquer fear. That was my thing,

403
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 6>and of course you can't. Now I'm afraid of the

404
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.000
<v Speaker 6>silliest things, but I know how to deal with it.

405
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:23.720
<v Speaker 6>But so it's equal parts excitement and you know, hua

406
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 6>and just straight fear like I've never had since before

407
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.599
<v Speaker 6>then or since then, because it was my first time.

408
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:38.039
<v Speaker 6>I'm an E two private hooked up and there was

409
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:39.440
<v Speaker 6>a dude right in front of me that we had

410
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.839
<v Speaker 6>gotten in a fight at a bar. Not a bad

411
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.000
<v Speaker 6>just an argument and like we skinned each other, you know,

412
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:49.519
<v Speaker 6>we like made up right there and my gun team

413
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.680
<v Speaker 6>leaders on the other side, and he screamed, you ready

414
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.480
<v Speaker 6>to get some team, Like I could hear him over that,

415
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.440
<v Speaker 6>you know, the engines of the mold one, And that

416
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:00.319
<v Speaker 6>sort of snapped me out of it because I was like, Okay,

417
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.079
<v Speaker 6>what what's the process right here? When when people go

418
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.880
<v Speaker 6>to war for the first time. Oh yeah, I should

419
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 6>be scared. I should be thinking about my family. I

420
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.720
<v Speaker 6>couldn't remember any of my family's names or faces. Blank.

421
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:22.119
<v Speaker 6>We go out and as I got to the door,

422
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.079
<v Speaker 6>you know the slow motion like you got so much

423
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:28.200
<v Speaker 6>time to do so much stuff because your brain is

424
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.599
<v Speaker 6>processing is quicker than it ever has. I remember seeing

425
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:36.319
<v Speaker 6>the grass move on the ground like we're that low.

426
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:38.720
<v Speaker 6>I could just see the tall grass kind of going

427
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.000
<v Speaker 6>like this.

428
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:41.519
<v Speaker 5>What altitude do you think you guys were at?

429
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.000
<v Speaker 6>I got out higher than most. I know they started

430
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.119
<v Speaker 6>at five hundred they somebody said there were there were

431
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 6>altitude calls. I think I went out around four to

432
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.680
<v Speaker 6>eighty four hundred and eighty, which is like when you

433
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.400
<v Speaker 6>see a jet that low, you think it's going to crash. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

434
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 6>And they're struggling. So I'm in the front pretty so

435
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.519
<v Speaker 6>I got out pretty you know, higher. There's trace a

436
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.160
<v Speaker 6>rounds below me. I landed and then they shot above me.

437
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:19.039
<v Speaker 6>So it's just nuts. You know, we only had five kias.

438
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.720
<v Speaker 6>That's more than you know needed, but I thought it

439
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 6>would be so much more, but lots of wounded. And

440
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.599
<v Speaker 6>then as I d rigged and got moving, I felt

441
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.759
<v Speaker 6>like again the slow motion thing. I felt like, I'm like,

442
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.960
<v Speaker 6>come on, body move something's wrong. I'm like, I'm not

443
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.480
<v Speaker 6>gonna make it. I'm not going to do it. And

444
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:45.720
<v Speaker 6>I looked over and I saw a dude like going

445
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 6>about the same speed as me, you know, shucking and

446
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 6>driving and taking cover and this and that. So I

447
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 6>learned later that I was doing everything fine from the training.

448
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.799
<v Speaker 6>That's why we train, you know, I had no If

449
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.200
<v Speaker 6>we wouldn't have had training, I would have just been useless.

450
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 6>But I was doing my training, So that's you know.

451
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.039
<v Speaker 6>I became a believer once I learned about that.

452
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I mean, did you guys jump on was

453
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:11.880
<v Speaker 2>it Rio Hoto? No?

454
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.079
<v Speaker 6>That second back we jumped on to Qmantorios.

455
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, so tell us about what the what

456
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.480
<v Speaker 2>the objective was and what you guys were trying to accomplish.

457
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:24.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. So we had our building, I forget the name

458
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:28.759
<v Speaker 6>of it, but everybody had their their thing and E

459
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 6>two private man I was like, have the tropod ready,

460
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:34.920
<v Speaker 6>and my my, uh my, ammo. And there was a kid,

461
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 6>a guy on another gun team in my squad. He said,

462
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:42.000
<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna drive. I'm gonna dump this AMMO when we

463
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:46.799
<v Speaker 6>land and I rated him out man, and I would

464
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:50.799
<v Speaker 6>do it again like no, you're not brother, Uh huh,

465
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:55.079
<v Speaker 6>that's all of us, that's team stuff. And uh he didn't.

466
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:59.160
<v Speaker 6>He was gone, yeah, you're not gonna dump ammo. Man.

467
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:06.119
<v Speaker 6>So landed. I didn't hit tarmac, I just missed it.

468
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.000
<v Speaker 6>I hit grass, But it was still like like getting

469
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:19.720
<v Speaker 6>punched in the neck. Yeah, we wore reserves. I don't

470
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:21.640
<v Speaker 6>you know. In Grenada they didn't and like we didn't

471
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:23.599
<v Speaker 6>want to, like we want to be cool like Grenada,

472
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 6>you can't use them, well, just put them there to

473
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:28.400
<v Speaker 6>stabilize your ruck and all that, like whatever.

474
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:30.640
<v Speaker 5>Okay, it's so ridiculous, isn't it?

475
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:34.559
<v Speaker 4>That you know they're they're so And it's probably not

476
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:39.119
<v Speaker 4>your like direct line supervisor, but it's probably some colonel

477
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:41.680
<v Speaker 4>or lieutenant colonel or whatever who doesn't want to have

478
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.960
<v Speaker 4>to explain why they didn't wear reserves, even though a

479
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.559
<v Speaker 4>reserve is going to do absolutely no good at all.

480
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.279
<v Speaker 5>At four hundred and eighty feet, you know.

481
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:53.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's hard to get that thing out at eight

482
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.839
<v Speaker 6>hundred Yeah, really hard. What is cool? But they did

483
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:01.200
<v Speaker 6>that was cool. I just found this they made us

484
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:05.160
<v Speaker 6>where they make these helmet covers. Yeah, I kept this thing.

485
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:06.599
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome.

486
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, just tore up b to us and we you know,

487
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:12.039
<v Speaker 6>so we all look like predators running around. That was

488
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:12.599
<v Speaker 6>a good call.

489
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.920
<v Speaker 2>So so you land, you start heading out to the

490
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:20.799
<v Speaker 2>assembly area, and you said there was a target building.

491
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.240
<v Speaker 6>Yep, and there's the old choke point. So I see

492
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.160
<v Speaker 6>people are kind of bounding up going through the choke point.

493
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.000
<v Speaker 6>I forget if it was marked with the cam light

494
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.119
<v Speaker 6>or something, but there was a choke point to get through.

495
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.279
<v Speaker 6>I heard, you know, sort of skirmishes left and right.

496
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.319
<v Speaker 6>There was nothing in front of me to deal with,

497
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:46.440
<v Speaker 6>but I heard you know, RPG explosions, which I would

498
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.759
<v Speaker 6>find out later some of my buddies took you know,

499
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:53.440
<v Speaker 6>got blown up, got through the choke point in there. Well,

500
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 6>there was a body there that people made sure was dead.

501
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.200
<v Speaker 6>That so that's my first dead body. I went through

502
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.079
<v Speaker 6>the choke point and then got to my objective kind

503
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:16.799
<v Speaker 6>of quiet at that point, and then uh, something god

504
00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 6>I had I had to crawl to another gun position

505
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:23.960
<v Speaker 6>for AMMO to redistribute, and somebody came up on a roof.

506
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:27.279
<v Speaker 6>So I see this sort of you know, I'm crawling

507
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 6>like high crawling, and I just see somebody on a

508
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:34.400
<v Speaker 6>roof with a gun look down at me. And I'd

509
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.799
<v Speaker 6>had dreams about this. I'm getting like dry mouth talking

510
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 6>about this. I'm like waiting for it, and I hear

511
00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:43.440
<v Speaker 6>a gun, you know, a pop. My squad later shot

512
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:52.000
<v Speaker 6>him with his pistol. I mean, it's like unreal. So

513
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.680
<v Speaker 6>there was that, and then then it got quiet, and

514
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:58.319
<v Speaker 6>then the eighty second jumped in, and then uh, we

515
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.279
<v Speaker 6>watched them jump in and come up and and then

516
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:07.480
<v Speaker 6>the seventh id landed and came in. And then the

517
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:10.480
<v Speaker 6>air Force had it had an ice cream or a

518
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:14.839
<v Speaker 6>box truck, and my platoons start and picked me and

519
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 6>another private said Nielsen and from Kia, unload this truck.

520
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:23.359
<v Speaker 6>It was bodies. You know, he told us they had

521
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.119
<v Speaker 6>gone out collected bodies. So we opened the truck doors

522
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.799
<v Speaker 6>and you know, it's like half full of this box

523
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 6>truck of hot bodies in the hot blood man. When

524
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 6>you first the first time it's just like, wow, you know,

525
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:44.680
<v Speaker 6>it got real. So we're unloading these I can feel

526
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.759
<v Speaker 6>it right now, just warm copper, blood smell. Bodies were

527
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 6>stacking them up and on the bottom of the pilots.

528
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 6>Jim Markwell, ranger medick from one seven to five, and

529
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 6>he had tried to put his first aid kid on it.

530
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:02.759
<v Speaker 6>He was shot in the in the pell of this

531
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.759
<v Speaker 6>horrible spot. Yeah and yeah, so we got him off,

532
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:12.400
<v Speaker 6>wrapped him in my squad leader's poncho. And man, at

533
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.440
<v Speaker 6>that point, I had been up for almost three days.

534
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.680
<v Speaker 6>So I go back to my security position and the

535
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.000
<v Speaker 6>sun's starting to come up, and there's this stack of

536
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:27.119
<v Speaker 6>bodies and you know, I'm starting to hallucinate so and

537
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.720
<v Speaker 6>other people were too, so I think I can't even

538
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.160
<v Speaker 6>remember what happened, But somehow we went in and got

539
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.759
<v Speaker 6>sleep in this hangar and I slept for a long time.

540
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:39.799
<v Speaker 6>That was that. That was the first combat.

541
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow, And what was kind of the follow on to Panama?

542
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Because I mean, the invasion it all popped off relatively quickly.

543
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.599
<v Speaker 2>Were there like follow on targets that you guys had

544
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.559
<v Speaker 2>to hit or were pretty much just chilling on the

545
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:54.319
<v Speaker 2>airfield at that.

546
00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 6>Point, we chilled for like a week and then we

547
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.559
<v Speaker 6>went out in the bush to look for Noriega. I

548
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.400
<v Speaker 6>think it was just training exercise. And that was, to

549
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.400
<v Speaker 6>this day the hardest humping I've ever done, Harder than selection. Yeah,

550
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 6>that was Panamama. Oh my god. Yeah, the jungle's no.

551
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.000
<v Speaker 4>Joke down there, Triple canopy, the black palm, Yeah.

552
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, black palms, no joke.

553
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:20.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. And and uh, and I had lost my PC

554
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:25.839
<v Speaker 6>when the when the I think Huey's took us. I

555
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.720
<v Speaker 6>don't know if it was black Hawk. We run it

556
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:31.480
<v Speaker 6>a hue I think lost my PC, and and so

557
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 6>did another private. So what do you do? You wear

558
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:36.079
<v Speaker 6>a sand bag on your head? Ranger Nielsen. So we're

559
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.839
<v Speaker 6>out in freaking jungle patrolling looking for Noriega, and I

560
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.920
<v Speaker 6>have a sand bag. I put E two rank on it.

561
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Well fortunately so for people who don't know a PC

562
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.640
<v Speaker 4>has patrol cap it's also as you dirty civilians would

563
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 4>call it a hat, and you stand in line for

564
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 4>hours outside and boutique to buy them.

565
00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:59.640
<v Speaker 5>But I'm if it just.

566
00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 4>Hadn't been actual combat, the entire all the privates would

567
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 4>have been online looking for it walking through the jungle.

568
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:09.880
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, yeah.

569
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:15.559
<v Speaker 2>And so after Panama that's nineteen eighty nine. Uh, it

570
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.279
<v Speaker 2>sounds like we're relatively quickly, you guys get spun up

571
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:19.400
<v Speaker 2>for Desert Storm.

572
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, we go back and now life's kind of good.

573
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:25.240
<v Speaker 6>It's like I'm a PFC with the CIB that was

574
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.640
<v Speaker 6>our thing. Yeah, you go to Ranger School and and

575
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 6>you know we're driving with the second bat guys, which

576
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.880
<v Speaker 6>is not normal, you know, because there's other there's always tension,

577
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:37.680
<v Speaker 6>but and and third back because you know, everybody's got

578
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.319
<v Speaker 6>their stories. But you know, the Black Sheep and all

579
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:43.680
<v Speaker 6>that are doing their thing. But we're all PFCs with

580
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.039
<v Speaker 6>CIVS and Ranger School and it's like untouchable, right.

581
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Bustard, Yeah, combat Scrolls.

582
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. So yeah, the altho, the

583
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 2>entire Ranger regiment jumped into Panama time.

584
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.599
<v Speaker 1>I think that's ever happened.

585
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:04.519
<v Speaker 2>So that's kind of cool, Like you and your peers

586
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.279
<v Speaker 2>all had this sort of like shared experience, even across

587
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 2>the geographically separated battalions.

588
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:15.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it was it was very Uh it was a link.

589
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 6>You know. It changed everything for me anyway, because one

590
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 6>I knew I could do it. Uh, you know, my

591
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.679
<v Speaker 6>gun team later was like the near a good job,

592
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.079
<v Speaker 6>Like I did it everything I was supposed to do,

593
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 6>barely with that sandbag. I was so mad at this.

594
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:32.920
<v Speaker 6>You know, it's some spec for in another squad that

595
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:35.599
<v Speaker 6>heckling me and making me do that. But whatever, I

596
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:38.880
<v Speaker 6>got through it. Uh. Not long after that desert storm

597
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 6>comes up and they pick one company out of the regiment,

598
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:47.559
<v Speaker 6>BIKO one seven, which is fine, and like.

599
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Us, what's that schwartz a cough didn't like us?

600
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:54.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, man, I had to meet him. We had to

601
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.360
<v Speaker 6>do this like, you know, put your stuff up there

602
00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.920
<v Speaker 6>and he's gonna come through and just general Orman schwartz cuff.

603
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.079
<v Speaker 6>This was a number sixty year cool belt fed machine gun.

604
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:06.679
<v Speaker 6>So he's like, I, no, ranger, Yeah, tell me about yourself,

605
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:09.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, shook his hand and all that. So it

606
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:10.920
<v Speaker 6>wasn't bad, but we didn't do anything.

607
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:15.519
<v Speaker 2>You guys sat out there. Yeah, there there was and

608
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean I guess it wasn't you guys, but there

609
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:20.719
<v Speaker 2>was like one ranger target. I think they hit like

610
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.159
<v Speaker 2>a radio relays station or a radar installation.

611
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I mean, so that was first between my buddies.

612
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:32.599
<v Speaker 6>They went cool with some unit guys and that thing

613
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:34.920
<v Speaker 6>up at the Kicker charged in Ghost. It was like

614
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:44.519
<v Speaker 6>big old, massive tower. Yeah, and I think it was

615
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.519
<v Speaker 6>after that, and then a black Hawk went down because

616
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:51.239
<v Speaker 6>of weather and thirteen or fourteen guys were killed at

617
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:52.559
<v Speaker 6>the tail end of that. We had to go out

618
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.239
<v Speaker 6>and recover that. So you know, just sad.

619
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Were those the unit guys that were out?

620
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, I remember Dale Comstock was out there on

621
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the ground when that happened.

622
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:11.679
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that And then I went to that

623
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:13.840
<v Speaker 6>right after ranger school and I had gotten married, so

624
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:18.320
<v Speaker 6>it was just good living, but but hard living. Got

625
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.639
<v Speaker 6>back and then I got out the army. That was

626
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.800
<v Speaker 6>just always my plan. I was just gonna do a

627
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:25.639
<v Speaker 6>I did a three year en listening. I got out

628
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:29.440
<v Speaker 6>in ninety two and never thought about staying in.

629
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, you held that you had that experience and you're

630
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:33.800
<v Speaker 2>ready to move on to the next thing.

631
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, not to mention how difficult it is to be

632
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:47.519
<v Speaker 6>a ranger man. So yeah, I'm out for ten years

633
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.920
<v Speaker 6>and then you want to talk about the BlackBerry. Now

634
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:53.239
<v Speaker 6>you guys got one on yourself.

635
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 1>David's is right behind mine, is right here.

636
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.159
<v Speaker 6>Nice.

637
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I was a school ranger. I never I never breathed

638
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:04.320
<v Speaker 2>the same. You guys were the same rarefied air as.

639
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:08.199
<v Speaker 5>A bad dog, teams and interrogators.

640
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.639
<v Speaker 2>But you went to George Mason, you went to school.

641
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, before we get to your your road march protest,

642
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what were you doing on the outside, what

643
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 2>was what was sort of your your wife ambition?

644
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:27.480
<v Speaker 6>There still very lost, kind of just searching. So you know,

645
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.360
<v Speaker 6>we talk about the trauma and the childhood stuff. It

646
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.000
<v Speaker 6>was bad. My brother, my little brother, best friend hung

647
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:41.559
<v Speaker 6>himself twelve years ago and twenty twelve, just you know,

648
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:47.599
<v Speaker 6>he couldn't get through it. So you know, it's bad.

649
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.920
<v Speaker 6>It's so I was just lost. I was really lost

650
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:52.880
<v Speaker 6>at George Mason. I was an English major. I like

651
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.559
<v Speaker 6>to write, and so I just you know, I never

652
00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:59.199
<v Speaker 6>really knew what my calling was. Like I'm just I

653
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.440
<v Speaker 6>don't figuring it out. It's it's being a coach, and

654
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.599
<v Speaker 6>it's telling our story. So one oh seven says, let

655
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 6>the Redeemed of the Lord Teller's story. It's so important,

656
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.559
<v Speaker 6>and let the wise listen. You know, I was at

657
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.840
<v Speaker 6>the VA and this this man was like, well I

658
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:18.480
<v Speaker 6>only did one rotation, so I'm not blah blah blah,

659
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:22.119
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's just a not just he's a he's

660
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:26.039
<v Speaker 6>a regular infantry guy. And I felt compelled to talk

661
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:29.079
<v Speaker 6>to him. I said, man, you did it, or that

662
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:31.519
<v Speaker 6>you went there for a year, you did your job.

663
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 6>It doesn't work with on us all. Like so, yeah,

664
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:41.800
<v Speaker 6>I'm out and just you know, on the fast track

665
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 6>to realizing I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict. I'm

666
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.719
<v Speaker 6>sober today. Fifteen years is my sobriety date. July twenty six,

667
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 6>two thousand and nine. Yeah, I just can't can't do it.

668
00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, no, congratulations, How how did you you know?

669
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:04.679
<v Speaker 4>I think that a lot of guys from the community,

670
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.000
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people form the community, have to come

671
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.519
<v Speaker 4>to terms with this idea of the quiet professional.

672
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.000
<v Speaker 5>But stories deserve to be shared. People deserve to hear them.

673
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 4>And the people who have them deserve to be able

674
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:21.840
<v Speaker 4>to tell them. And and not just you know, for

675
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 4>the historical part. And and I'm not talking about the

676
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.000
<v Speaker 4>guy in the bar you know who killed in laden

677
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:32.360
<v Speaker 4>but but you know, the the just the stories and

678
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.079
<v Speaker 4>and again, like a person could be an admin person

679
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.360
<v Speaker 4>like you do your time, to do your time, like

680
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.360
<v Speaker 4>and there's no shame and there's no comparison or whatever.

681
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.880
<v Speaker 4>But but we come from this community, and you in particular,

682
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.079
<v Speaker 4>come from this community where it's always impressed.

683
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:52.360
<v Speaker 5>Upon you to be the quiet professional, right, you know.

684
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 4>And but then you get out to the real world,

685
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.239
<v Speaker 4>and one, being a quiet professional doesn't get you a job,

686
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:02.760
<v Speaker 4>right uh?

687
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:03.880
<v Speaker 5>And two.

688
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:10.199
<v Speaker 4>You're doing yourself and the next generation a disservice when.

689
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.079
<v Speaker 5>You don't share. Did did you have a difficult time

690
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.480
<v Speaker 5>coming to grips with that? Or how did you? How

691
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:17.119
<v Speaker 5>did you do that?

692
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:23.079
<v Speaker 6>And I'm wrestling with it right now. Really I'm at

693
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:27.199
<v Speaker 6>peace with it. But I so appreciate you guys. I'm

694
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.639
<v Speaker 6>trying to do my podcast. It's difficult, So I appreciate

695
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.679
<v Speaker 6>what you're doing. And I didn't, you know, I get

696
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.119
<v Speaker 6>to the unit. So okay, I'm a really quiet professional,

697
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 6>you know, But what is that? What is the purpose

698
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:46.960
<v Speaker 6>of that? Like Jessica Lance, for example, we dug up

699
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:51.000
<v Speaker 6>those bodies, and I never talked about the nine bodies

700
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.719
<v Speaker 6>that we dug up. Hey, that was a reason to go.

701
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 6>You know, stuff like that needs to be said, must

702
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:00.679
<v Speaker 6>be said. And so for me, it was a long process, Dave,

703
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:06.679
<v Speaker 6>like years, I mean just about a year ago I

704
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:11.159
<v Speaker 6>went to seminary some years back, and I love theology.

705
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:14.760
<v Speaker 6>I just love that, you know, thinking about the creation

706
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:20.079
<v Speaker 6>and everything. So after that, I felt moved to tell

707
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:23.199
<v Speaker 6>my story, tell, you know, and and hear stories and

708
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, so that maybe my brother wouldn't have hung

709
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 6>himself so at a certain point, and it was it

710
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.960
<v Speaker 6>was hard. I think my first thing was an Instagram account,

711
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.880
<v Speaker 6>and I was so nervous and I had people helping

712
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.960
<v Speaker 6>me and I put out like a post and then hey,

713
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:41.800
<v Speaker 6>people are liking this, you know, and I put some

714
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 6>pictures out that it was on a podcast, and you know,

715
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.960
<v Speaker 6>I think the more we do it, the more sometimes scarier.

716
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:55.440
<v Speaker 6>It's like I've done these interviews with David Hookstead of OutKick,

717
00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 6>and he knows he gets those questions teed up. And

718
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.719
<v Speaker 6>it's like I decided beforehand to answer the question. I

719
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 6>really thought and prayed about it for a long time,

720
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:08.519
<v Speaker 6>and I said, if I'm going to do this, I'm

721
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 6>not going to half measure it. I'm going to tell

722
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:15.840
<v Speaker 6>it all. So I'm going to talk about killing and

723
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:19.360
<v Speaker 6>not in a bragging way, but because it is a

724
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:24.719
<v Speaker 6>fucking burden, yea, not even that it's bad. It's not

725
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:26.480
<v Speaker 6>like I can't sleep because of this. No, I'm at

726
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:31.079
<v Speaker 6>peace with all that. But it's so it's a whole

727
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 6>different life experience that needs to be known by people.

728
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.440
<v Speaker 5>It's interesting that you brought up bragging because I think.

729
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.840
<v Speaker 4>For a lot of us, it feels like when we

730
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.119
<v Speaker 4>are telling our stories, it feels to us like we're

731
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:51.440
<v Speaker 4>bragging either that or that we're boring people to tears

732
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.400
<v Speaker 4>because they don't because we think they don't care about this.

733
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:59.000
<v Speaker 2>You've also had a couple interesting conversations with guys after

734
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.719
<v Speaker 2>we did the podcast. Yeah, and they tell us some

735
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 2>fairly graphic stories, you know, just man to man that

736
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.840
<v Speaker 2>they didn't want to share on a podcast because for

737
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:10.039
<v Speaker 2>exactly that they don't want to come across like they're

738
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.480
<v Speaker 2>bragging about it and like.

739
00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:14.440
<v Speaker 1>This is something to glorify. And I mean, I respect that,

740
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:14.920
<v Speaker 1>I get it.

741
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:15.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

742
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:19.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's a fine line, and I so I try

743
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:23.639
<v Speaker 6>to always caveat or disclaimer it with you know. Look,

744
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:27.400
<v Speaker 6>I'm doing this because I have found peace and and

745
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.280
<v Speaker 6>I've gotten better. I no longer want to die like

746
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:37.159
<v Speaker 6>I did, like I tried to. So you know, it

747
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.199
<v Speaker 6>does work, and like you said, the next generations, we're

748
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:41.800
<v Speaker 6>doing them at the service. We absolutely are if we don't.

749
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:43.679
<v Speaker 6>You know, these Vietnam rangers took me out on a

750
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:48.800
<v Speaker 6>sailing trip for three days and they told stories and

751
00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 6>the like, now you go, tell us about Panama and

752
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.559
<v Speaker 6>you know, and we did, and we shot jellyfish off

753
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.119
<v Speaker 6>the boat and all that and just had a life experience.

754
00:43:59.119 --> 00:43:59.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, like that's cool.

755
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So take a uh, I mean, we're gonna, We're

756
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:05.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna definitely I want to I want to dig a

757
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:08.000
<v Speaker 2>little bit deeper into some of these themes you've mentioned,

758
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:13.880
<v Speaker 2>but kind of going in chronological order. You're in school,

759
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.840
<v Speaker 2>You're in You're you're in Cipy Street, You're you're a dirty,

760
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:21.119
<v Speaker 2>nasty civilian trying to find your way. I mean, tell

761
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:23.679
<v Speaker 2>us a little bit about how that went, and walk

762
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:27.840
<v Speaker 2>us into how you had this this epic protest that

763
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:29.280
<v Speaker 2>even I heard about.

764
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 6>M hm, it's hilarious. Well, here's a story from a

765
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 6>George Mason. In my English class, I we had to

766
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.679
<v Speaker 6>write a narrative of you know, I forget two thousand

767
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:46.639
<v Speaker 6>words or something. So I wrote and compressed the Panama

768
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.639
<v Speaker 6>story I just and then we had to read it

769
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:51.559
<v Speaker 6>in this class. And this is like Honors English. So

770
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:57.320
<v Speaker 6>we had this really good instructor who was respectful and

771
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:01.480
<v Speaker 6>and I went through the jump commands, you know, six minutes,

772
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.920
<v Speaker 6>and you know, I and I called it altered because

773
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:07.239
<v Speaker 6>I had been altered from that experience. And I read this.

774
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.440
<v Speaker 6>So I'm in my late twenties, I'm older than many

775
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:14.280
<v Speaker 6>most of the people in the class. I read it,

776
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.320
<v Speaker 6>and even back then in the nineties are like, what

777
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.960
<v Speaker 6>are you talking about? Right? We went why why did

778
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:27.039
<v Speaker 6>you do that? You know, it just it wasn't even

779
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.360
<v Speaker 6>like it was this. It made me laugh and then

780
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:31.960
<v Speaker 6>cry later.

781
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:36.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's like it's not like they're necessarily anti

782
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.519
<v Speaker 2>war hippies. It's just they're sort of flabbergas did like

783
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:40.239
<v Speaker 2>this happened?

784
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 6>Like what exactly? So I'm like, man, people don't know anything,

785
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:54.960
<v Speaker 6>and without our presence and our freaking muscle through these years,

786
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:58.159
<v Speaker 6>we wouldn't be able to do anything good.

787
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:03.280
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, and you know, it's funny because I have

788
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:06.079
<v Speaker 4>seen guys who sort of resent civilians for that, but

789
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.320
<v Speaker 4>at the same time, it's like, that's why we're there.

790
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:11.239
<v Speaker 4>So they so that so that they could know who

791
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:15.119
<v Speaker 4>got voted off the real world or whatever, and they don't.

792
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:20.119
<v Speaker 5>Have to worry about something that Yeah, exactly, you know,

793
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:23.239
<v Speaker 5>you know, so, yeah.

794
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:26.760
<v Speaker 4>It's it's it's a very interesting thing.

795
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.480
<v Speaker 5>Like did the people in your class treat you differently

796
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.039
<v Speaker 5>after that?

797
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:34.119
<v Speaker 6>I think so. I think that's where I started to

798
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.159
<v Speaker 6>see that there was always within a group, and it

799
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.320
<v Speaker 6>became like a metric for me of who I want

800
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.440
<v Speaker 6>to be around, because I can remember a couple people

801
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:47.519
<v Speaker 6>who had follow on questions and they're so scared to

802
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:52.119
<v Speaker 6>ask questions, and you know, I learned long after that no,

803
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.840
<v Speaker 6>come on, ask anything. It's fine. Yeah, but you know,

804
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.719
<v Speaker 6>I think that's where I started to, uh see that

805
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.440
<v Speaker 6>the people who at least had that look in their

806
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:04.239
<v Speaker 6>eye like whoa, that's heavy, Like I want to be

807
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:05.079
<v Speaker 6>around those people.

808
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:05.679
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

809
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.159
<v Speaker 2>And when did it come around that, you know, the

810
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Rangers were changing out their beret from Dave's time to

811
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:16.519
<v Speaker 2>the to the present modern time.

812
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:21.800
<v Speaker 4>To yes, when Shinseki said, you know, the Rangers are motivated,

813
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.480
<v Speaker 4>I think that if we get that black beret which

814
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:27.840
<v Speaker 4>motivates them to everybody else, the rest of the army

815
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:28.719
<v Speaker 4>will be motivated too.

816
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.079
<v Speaker 6>On paper, it was brilliant, Yeah, and then we heard

817
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 6>about it. So this is in thatah, it was.

818
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:43.840
<v Speaker 5>It was two thousand, Yeah, two thousand.

819
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:50.239
<v Speaker 6>I'm a civilian at George Mason. We just had had

820
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.760
<v Speaker 6>that's there were like check groups, ranger check groups, and

821
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:54.719
<v Speaker 6>you know, I don't even know what they were.

822
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Called, like AOL or something back then.

823
00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:00.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. Yeah, and we're listening, We're talking to the Vietnam

824
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:03.880
<v Speaker 6>guys real time. It was. It was cool. And then

825
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.079
<v Speaker 6>so I heard about this Black Barry thing and a

826
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:10.440
<v Speaker 6>guy named Dave Scott from Montana started it. He needed volunteers.

827
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.159
<v Speaker 6>I was like, hm, I think I can do this.

828
00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:15.639
<v Speaker 6>I talked to my wife and yeah, I can do it.

829
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:19.239
<v Speaker 6>So I volunteered and I got on his team, you know,

830
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.000
<v Speaker 6>set it up. We had all kinds of support monetarily

831
00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:30.519
<v Speaker 6>and leadership, like guys behind the scenes retired, some of

832
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:33.800
<v Speaker 6>some of them are still active, you know, some E

833
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:38.119
<v Speaker 6>nines and some officers who supported us. I still don't

834
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:41.159
<v Speaker 6>know exactly how, but we had just everything we needed.

835
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:45.679
<v Speaker 6>So it's like, yeah, we're gonna at least say suck it,

836
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.239
<v Speaker 6>General Sinzechi. That's that's crap. I mean, the Black Prey

837
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 6>was what we why we got through rip three weeks.

838
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:58.639
<v Speaker 6>I did it twice sucks had to do when I

839
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:02.639
<v Speaker 6>went back in the second time, which was after the

840
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.159
<v Speaker 6>ro March. So yeah, so we uh, all right, We're

841
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:08.280
<v Speaker 6>gonna walk from Fort Benning home of the Infantry, to Washington,

842
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:13.039
<v Speaker 6>d C. To raise awareness about this stupidity of giving

843
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:15.840
<v Speaker 6>the black beat to everybody, right and every the people

844
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.840
<v Speaker 6>in the army. They not one person ever said that

845
00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:21.159
<v Speaker 6>was a good you know, they didn't want it. Yeah,

846
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:27.559
<v Speaker 6>they knew, right, So yeah, we start walking twenty average

847
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:31.960
<v Speaker 6>twenty five miles a day for thirty days. It was

848
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:35.719
<v Speaker 6>I wasn't carrying weight, you know, I had a ruck

849
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.440
<v Speaker 6>with some pillows in it. Pil Frangdrick got a little

850
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 6>smarter at that, Yeah, right right.

851
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Did at any point you hear from like the Department

852
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:45.719
<v Speaker 2>of the Army. Did they ever weigh in on like

853
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:47.840
<v Speaker 2>this controversy and what you guys were doing.

854
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:51.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and I would hear it from. I think it

855
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:53.320
<v Speaker 6>was I don't know if I should drop names, but

856
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.480
<v Speaker 6>the you know, the colonel of the Rege, I think

857
00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:01.559
<v Speaker 6>Colonel something. I had a call at the beginning or

858
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:07.079
<v Speaker 6>we did saying well at first it was like what's

859
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.039
<v Speaker 6>your plan? And they asked for our social Security numbers?

860
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 6>And then they said, okay, you're good to go. It's like, oh,

861
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:15.400
<v Speaker 6>they wanted to make sure you Yeah, yeah.

862
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:15.800
<v Speaker 5>That makes sense.

863
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:18.480
<v Speaker 6>I think they're making sure we were legit right, cool,

864
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:19.679
<v Speaker 6>Like yeah, yeah, please do that.

865
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

866
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:23.679
<v Speaker 6>And I tell people like always, it's okay to ask

867
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.960
<v Speaker 6>for two fourteen. I'm not going to get offended.

868
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:28.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

869
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, because there's so many posters out there, so

870
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:37.599
<v Speaker 6>many liars. Yeah and so and then at the end,

871
00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:42.280
<v Speaker 6>colonel called me on my on my home phone. I'll

872
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:44.679
<v Speaker 6>get to that, but yeah, So they were involved. They

873
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:46.960
<v Speaker 6>were watching everything Army Times was out there, and then

874
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.960
<v Speaker 6>it was like box news. It was local news and

875
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.000
<v Speaker 6>every time, you know, little city that we walked through,

876
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:57.559
<v Speaker 6>it was cool. Man. That was fun just to sort

877
00:50:57.559 --> 00:51:02.079
<v Speaker 6>of be alone. People fell out. I was the only

878
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:06.440
<v Speaker 6>one that, you know, not by not because I'm awesome

879
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:08.000
<v Speaker 6>or anything. It's just I was the only dude that

880
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.480
<v Speaker 6>ended up going the whole way. But the guy that

881
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:16.199
<v Speaker 6>started fell out with some trouble. Again, the leadership that

882
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:18.920
<v Speaker 6>we had would they were they would come in, they

883
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.760
<v Speaker 6>would make sure everything was good, and then they would leave.

884
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:26.000
<v Speaker 6>So the news president the media really built up though,

885
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:27.880
<v Speaker 6>So it's like then it's like Fox New CNN and

886
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:31.039
<v Speaker 6>it's we're seeing it on. You know, I didn't like that.

887
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.440
<v Speaker 6>I still don't, but I'm gonna do it. That's what

888
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:36.840
<v Speaker 6>we're trying to do is raise awareness. So, you know,

889
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:40.199
<v Speaker 6>we get to d C. We we start talking to

890
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.360
<v Speaker 6>Center oh Man and I got some cool We see

891
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:50.960
<v Speaker 6>Al Sharpton walking down the street. So my gun team leader,

892
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:54.480
<v Speaker 6>Sarton Rummels, he shows up. He's a civilian. He shows

893
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:57.480
<v Speaker 6>up wearing deserts. I'm wearing O G one O seven's.

894
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:03.519
<v Speaker 6>We had John Burns Somalia. We'reing chocolate chips. And then

895
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.000
<v Speaker 6>we had Bill Rown who's dead now. He was a

896
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:10.880
<v Speaker 6>f Company ranger in Vietnam. Wow, going from you know,

897
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:13.119
<v Speaker 6>we got there. So we're at the Lincoln Memorial Parks

898
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:15.199
<v Speaker 6>and we're walking up and we just happened to be

899
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:19.440
<v Speaker 6>in a wedge for me like four or five rangers,

900
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:22.760
<v Speaker 6>you know, just and Al Sharpton and his entourage is

901
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.119
<v Speaker 6>coming down the I didn't my certain Rummes was like, Hey,

902
00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:29.079
<v Speaker 6>that's that's reverend. Now I'm gonna let's go meet him.

903
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:32.000
<v Speaker 6>And he's like, hey, Reverend, the boys want to talk

904
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:33.280
<v Speaker 6>to you. Can we come over and meet you and

905
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:38.159
<v Speaker 6>is like they like covering up on Al Sharpton. Just

906
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:42.480
<v Speaker 6>a funny story, like to meet that's hilarious. So we

907
00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.519
<v Speaker 6>get into d C and talking to senators and we're

908
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.679
<v Speaker 6>trying to uh, Hillary Clinton was a brand new senator

909
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.480
<v Speaker 6>at that point. She was her office was down by

910
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:57.119
<v Speaker 6>the mill. She was brand new and just you know,

911
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:00.519
<v Speaker 6>for the for the rangers were like can we you know,

912
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:02.440
<v Speaker 6>we're like doing everything we can to talk to Hillary

913
00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:04.199
<v Speaker 6>Clinton just to get a picture you know, for the

914
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:06.440
<v Speaker 6>for the walls and the barracks because it would be hilarious.

915
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.440
<v Speaker 6>And she looked out, but she didn't come out. So

916
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:12.320
<v Speaker 6>but it was cool. We talked to like strom Thurman

917
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:14.880
<v Speaker 6>and you know, all these people that are gone now.

918
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:22.199
<v Speaker 6>But it went well. I testified in the Senate Small

919
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.119
<v Speaker 6>Arms or some committee.

920
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:25.880
<v Speaker 1>On Services committee.

921
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.800
<v Speaker 6>Yes, thank you, and General sin Seki was there. This

922
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:30.719
<v Speaker 6>This was weird.

923
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah you think I had hold that scumbag?

924
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:33.840
<v Speaker 5>What was that?

925
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah? They they had me in there and I was

926
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:40.480
<v Speaker 6>like what do I do? Just sit there with your

927
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:44.880
<v Speaker 6>black or tanberry, I can't remember. But so they start

928
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.920
<v Speaker 6>going and is that gentleman here that walked seven hundred

929
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.519
<v Speaker 6>miles from you know, I stood up like thank you,

930
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.599
<v Speaker 6>blah blah blah, and they're hammering Shinzechy. They're like, this

931
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.400
<v Speaker 6>is why you're trying to spend six million dollars in China.

932
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:59.239
<v Speaker 6>That's that's what really got got it overturned was the money.

933
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:05.760
<v Speaker 6>It always is right, it's like hate tank boy, yeah,

934
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.039
<v Speaker 6>and always trying to tell the difference between a ranger

935
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:13.920
<v Speaker 6>tab and right right ye, never ending battle. But they

936
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.880
<v Speaker 6>you know, and I thought I was I was young,

937
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:20.079
<v Speaker 6>I'm you know, I was like, oh man, they told

938
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:22.239
<v Speaker 6>him good. We go out in the hallway and we're

939
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:25.000
<v Speaker 6>talking and he's standing right there and I wanted I

940
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:29.559
<v Speaker 6>just wanted to look him in the eye, and he wouldn't.

941
00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:33.920
<v Speaker 6>He wouldn't you know. I'm kind of like not too aggressive,

942
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:35.320
<v Speaker 6>but just trying to like get to where and he

943
00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:42.559
<v Speaker 6>wouldn't look at me. So after that, colonel called me

944
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.840
<v Speaker 6>at home and said, hey, we're gonna wear Tambo rays.

945
00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:49.679
<v Speaker 6>There's a compromise. And I thought that I still thought

946
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 6>that was BS but whatever.

947
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that that that was gonna be what distinguished them

948
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:56.920
<v Speaker 2>separate from Big Army.

949
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.800
<v Speaker 4>So so for people who may or may not be

950
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:05.920
<v Speaker 4>falling along this, this was a real like heartache for

951
00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.199
<v Speaker 4>Rangers at that time because black was a ranger of color,

952
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:14.119
<v Speaker 4>were night fighters black. Yeah, so you have your green beret,

953
00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:17.480
<v Speaker 4>you have your maroon beret, you have your black beret,

954
00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:24.400
<v Speaker 4>and uh and then Shinsaki, General Shinseki, a tank officer, right,

955
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 4>it was an armor officer, decided that basically that, oh,

956
00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:35.440
<v Speaker 4>the rest of the Army needs a spread of corps

957
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.199
<v Speaker 4>like the Rangers have a spree to corps. It must

958
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:43.000
<v Speaker 4>be the magic hat they wear, that that fantastic French

959
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:47.480
<v Speaker 4>poof that they wear, which was a pain in the

960
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:50.519
<v Speaker 4>ass to shape to it like, and nobody in the

961
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.119
<v Speaker 4>army did that. They didn't shave it, they didn't shape it.

962
00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:53.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

963
00:55:54.079 --> 00:56:00.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but but he thought that the answer to army

964
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:04.960
<v Speaker 4>morale and esprit de corps was these magic hats that

965
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:05.920
<v Speaker 4>the Rangers were wearing.

966
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:10.000
<v Speaker 5>And so he basically said, everybody gets that.

967
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:12.760
<v Speaker 4>Hat when that when getting the hat like getting a

968
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.880
<v Speaker 4>green bray, getting a black bereat, what was a rite

969
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:16.400
<v Speaker 4>of passage?

970
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:16.639
<v Speaker 6>It was?

971
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:19.159
<v Speaker 4>It was you know, for us, getting the ranger cat

972
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:21.800
<v Speaker 4>was no big deal like that just meant that we

973
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:22.639
<v Speaker 4>can make he five.

974
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:25.280
<v Speaker 5>We didn't care about that. We cared about getting that

975
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:25.880
<v Speaker 5>black Beret.

976
00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:26.639
<v Speaker 6>Yep.

977
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:31.599
<v Speaker 5>So there was a lot of heartache about it at

978
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:32.000
<v Speaker 5>the time.

979
00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:34.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. So.

980
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:38.840
<v Speaker 2>And at the same time that all of this is happening,

981
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:41.519
<v Speaker 2>it's already percolating in the back of your mind that

982
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:43.639
<v Speaker 2>you want to join the you want to go back in.

983
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it was. And I because I couldn't. I still

984
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:51.920
<v Speaker 6>was like I couldn't find what I wanted to do

985
00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:56.320
<v Speaker 6>with my life. And I woke up one morning and

986
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.360
<v Speaker 6>it was like, oh my god. I said to my

987
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.639
<v Speaker 6>I literally, I'm going back in the army. And she

988
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:07.360
<v Speaker 6>screamed the F word really a loud. I think I've

989
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.320
<v Speaker 6>been sort of murmuring it. I said, I'm going back in.

990
00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:13.960
<v Speaker 6>She knew I was serious, and she's like, ah, but

991
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:19.559
<v Speaker 6>quickly or eventually got over it. I gave myself a

992
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:24.800
<v Speaker 6>damn high and tight and it took me a year

993
00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:26.159
<v Speaker 6>to get back and they wouldn't take me back in.

994
00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:32.800
<v Speaker 6>I had a spinal fusion and I was old, so

995
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:36.639
<v Speaker 6>I had to get waivers and wavering and I couldn't

996
00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:41.360
<v Speaker 6>get back in. And then they're like for a year,

997
00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:43.199
<v Speaker 6>and then they said, well, you can be a cook

998
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.239
<v Speaker 6>or a mechanic at Fort Riley, Mkansas, Kansas. You picked

999
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:49.880
<v Speaker 6>your job and ID so I just happened to have

1000
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:54.000
<v Speaker 6>this paper here because my wife just had loaned it

1001
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:57.119
<v Speaker 6>to somebody. Another story, But I mean, this is the

1002
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:01.639
<v Speaker 6>Washington Times and there's me like George Bush. You know,

1003
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.760
<v Speaker 6>we were on the front page of these papers a

1004
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:11.400
<v Speaker 6>few times and my TBI just kicked in. What were

1005
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:12.079
<v Speaker 6>we talking about?

1006
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:15.719
<v Speaker 4>The Yeah, you were talking about your decision to go

1007
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.840
<v Speaker 4>back in and they said no. And I just want

1008
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:21.320
<v Speaker 4>to stop you right there real quick.

1009
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:25.039
<v Speaker 5>You said you were old. And for our audience out there,

1010
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:27.639
<v Speaker 5>how old is old? I want you guys to hear this.

1011
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:30.519
<v Speaker 5>How old were you at that point?

1012
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.719
<v Speaker 6>You're talking thirty thirty two years old? So ancient?

1013
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:39.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you were ancient for the airborne ranger in the sky.

1014
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, kind of like athletes.

1015
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that isn't that The average age in

1016
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:47.840
<v Speaker 2>ranger regimen is eighteen, isn't it?

1017
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:48.480
<v Speaker 5>Well?

1018
00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:50.119
<v Speaker 4>I mean I think the average age is probably like

1019
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.360
<v Speaker 4>it's probably like twenty one because you.

1020
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Have your leadership, you do, but there's much more privates

1021
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:59.880
<v Speaker 1>there was on average. Yeah, it's like it's.

1022
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.400
<v Speaker 5>It's it's it's it's a teeny bopper organization.

1023
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:10.199
<v Speaker 6>We have soccer school with guns. Yeah, yep, but we

1024
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:11.119
<v Speaker 6>get it done somehow.

1025
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:16.519
<v Speaker 4>So here you are an elderly man of thirty, well

1026
00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:18.719
<v Speaker 4>into your wisened years.

1027
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:25.159
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yep. And again, man, Dave, we're not bragging, but like,

1028
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:29.119
<v Speaker 6>this is a hilarious thing that happened. So there was

1029
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:31.280
<v Speaker 6>an e eight woman working at the MAPS. I had

1030
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:33.400
<v Speaker 6>this pray, but this is my last resort. I brought

1031
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 6>it in. I said, Master short, this is me. I

1032
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:41.159
<v Speaker 6>did this walk because I love our country and our army.

1033
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:46.800
<v Speaker 6>She was like, damn, that's freaking cool. Where do you

1034
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:51.760
<v Speaker 6>want to go that day? Right there? I had orders

1035
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:59.400
<v Speaker 6>to one five no basic training after ten years and

1036
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.800
<v Speaker 6>and then, man, it was either then or the next

1037
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:06.079
<v Speaker 6>time when I went in. I'm sitting in this at

1038
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:10.719
<v Speaker 6>the MAPS in Baltimore. I'm living in Northern Virginia for

1039
01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:14.639
<v Speaker 6>George Mason to go back in. There's this like one

1040
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:18.719
<v Speaker 6>hundred inch TV screen on MTV and I'm sitting there

1041
01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:24.039
<v Speaker 6>with all the other idiots getting into the MTV's on

1042
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:28.119
<v Speaker 6>and they this is back Martha McCallum whatever, Like what

1043
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:30.880
<v Speaker 6>are special operations? And they showed me and my little

1044
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:33.960
<v Speaker 6>antrage walking up the Black Brace to the Lincoln memorial.

1045
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:39.559
<v Speaker 6>Nobody knows it's me, right, It's like, oh my god,

1046
01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:43.719
<v Speaker 6>I never saw that commercial, that thing before or since then,

1047
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:48.360
<v Speaker 6>but it's like, wow, you know, nobody knew it was

1048
01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:52.280
<v Speaker 6>me sitting there. But ridiculous, just ridiculous.

1049
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.280
<v Speaker 5>So you didn't have to do basic again. Did you

1050
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:59.599
<v Speaker 5>have to go back through maps or not maps on rip?

1051
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:05.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so straight to one seventy five. That eight was

1052
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.880
<v Speaker 6>just like she just wrote over. It was so easy.

1053
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:11.840
<v Speaker 6>So I show up. They're on leave. I just show

1054
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:17.880
<v Speaker 6>up the army. I got my whole uniform. I think,

1055
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:19.440
<v Speaker 6>no rank, but I you know, I certainly got my

1056
01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:23.000
<v Speaker 6>mustards stained and scroll on and old star Major Turner's there,

1057
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:24.400
<v Speaker 6>who was in the six when I got out in

1058
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:27.119
<v Speaker 6>ninety two? Oh grab what?

1059
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:27.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1060
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:31.039
<v Speaker 6>I remember you? You know everybody's on leave, but he's there, Rudy.

1061
01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:35.360
<v Speaker 6>So he puts me in snipers, and I'm just elated, like, oh,

1062
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:38.440
<v Speaker 6>that's what I want to do. Nine and eleven had happened,

1063
01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:40.079
<v Speaker 6>you know, I want to get back in a fight.

1064
01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:45.960
<v Speaker 6>So they're gone on leave, I'm in, uh snipers. I

1065
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:49.320
<v Speaker 6>kept my little barracks room twelve seventy six North or whatever,

1066
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.360
<v Speaker 6>and I get in there and I slp my wallocker.

1067
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:55.599
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if you guys had to do that.

1068
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I'm trying to remember. I don't remember if we.

1069
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.760
<v Speaker 5>Did or not.

1070
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:03.800
<v Speaker 6>So I do that, and uh, they come back and

1071
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:07.159
<v Speaker 6>leave and I'm in their formation, like what else am

1072
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:09.000
<v Speaker 6>I going to do? So I just their first woe

1073
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:11.239
<v Speaker 6>when they get back. You know, you're back from leave.

1074
01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:17.480
<v Speaker 6>Everybody was just like January and they're like, who are you?

1075
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:19.159
<v Speaker 6>So I tell them and they're like, oh, okay, so

1076
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:20.639
<v Speaker 6>are you? So?

1077
01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Are you a TAPSPEC for at this point in time.

1078
01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:27.840
<v Speaker 6>I'm a tabed PFC. PFC Wow, they put me back

1079
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:28.519
<v Speaker 6>in as a PFC.

1080
01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:29.079
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

1081
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:32.239
<v Speaker 6>Okay, yeah, like why couldn't. I was any five when

1082
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:35.440
<v Speaker 6>I got out and they couldn't even make me expect

1083
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:41.599
<v Speaker 6>for there was some hate there. Yeah, so yeah, PFC

1084
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:51.280
<v Speaker 6>back in And then I went to that must have

1085
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:52.920
<v Speaker 6>been after it. I went back to RIP, which was

1086
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:56.159
<v Speaker 6>which was hard, but it was cool because when it

1087
01:02:56.239 --> 01:02:59.840
<v Speaker 6>got when we got to Cold Range, those guys knew

1088
01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:04.079
<v Speaker 6>the structures. They had jumped into Afghanistan. They knew that

1089
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.960
<v Speaker 6>that I had done the walk, So like when it

1090
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:08.480
<v Speaker 6>was getting ready, you know, we're carrying the log and

1091
01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:12.679
<v Speaker 6>we're going to do fun games all night for three

1092
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.559
<v Speaker 6>nights or whatever. Somebody taps me on the shoulder and

1093
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:18.519
<v Speaker 6>I turned around, like to a fight, I thought it was,

1094
01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:21.159
<v Speaker 6>and he's like, no, no, no, come here. He's like,

1095
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:25.280
<v Speaker 6>get your rug and go over there in the woods

1096
01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:29.119
<v Speaker 6>and sleep. And I was like, are you sure? And

1097
01:03:29.679 --> 01:03:34.079
<v Speaker 6>oh was that nice? Hover? Many hours it was and

1098
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:37.360
<v Speaker 6>I heard it all going on, but save my bacon.

1099
01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:40.920
<v Speaker 6>Then we do the twelve miler, you know, there's ninety

1100
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:42.760
<v Speaker 6>night guys, and like, I got to come in first.

1101
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.320
<v Speaker 6>I'm the old man, and I did, but oh did

1102
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:51.599
<v Speaker 6>I hurt myself doing so? Back to rip and then

1103
01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:54.159
<v Speaker 6>it tried to put me in three seven five, which

1104
01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:58.760
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't. I didn't mind. It was just I had

1105
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:02.519
<v Speaker 6>my family at Savannah, so yeah, got that change, went

1106
01:04:02.599 --> 01:04:10.599
<v Speaker 6>back there, and yeah, we deployed to Afghanistan and then Iraq, Iraq,

1107
01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:11.599
<v Speaker 6>and then I went to selection.

1108
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:16.719
<v Speaker 5>And what was it like for you going to Afghanistan

1109
01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:20.760
<v Speaker 5>and Iraq? Having been a Panama of that?

1110
01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:27.039
<v Speaker 6>Looking back, I don't know what I could have done

1111
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.960
<v Speaker 6>different With my personality. I'm an introvert, so I just

1112
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:33.360
<v Speaker 6>tried to like jump in, but man, I was pretty

1113
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.159
<v Speaker 6>freaking dumb on a lot of stuff. We had prick

1114
01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:41.280
<v Speaker 6>seventeen's and they had what was it seven? No, it's

1115
01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:45.599
<v Speaker 6>a seventeen now, new radios, new machine guns, new airplanes.

1116
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:47.000
<v Speaker 6>Man Like, we went to jump the first time and

1117
01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:48.480
<v Speaker 6>I put my hands on the door. They're like, whoa,

1118
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:52.280
<v Speaker 6>what are you doing there? Geronimo? Yeah, everything was different.

1119
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:58.480
<v Speaker 6>So I got pretty mocked and ridiculed, you know, all

1120
01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:01.199
<v Speaker 6>the way till I made election for Delta.

1121
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:04.119
<v Speaker 4>So but what I mean was the mocking and the

1122
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:07.400
<v Speaker 4>ritual like in a fun way, like hey, old man

1123
01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:09.679
<v Speaker 4>like or or was there do you think there was

1124
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:11.159
<v Speaker 4>actual short of malice behind it?

1125
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:14.400
<v Speaker 6>I think a little of both. Good question, you know,

1126
01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:17.599
<v Speaker 6>I think it was both. There was just you know,

1127
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:20.960
<v Speaker 6>there's one guy who's just trying to get under my skin.

1128
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:25.679
<v Speaker 6>And he did and probably looking back as I could today,

1129
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:27.559
<v Speaker 6>it which is it wouldn't bother me, Like I don't

1130
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:31.000
<v Speaker 6>need to let that bother me. But he did and

1131
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:34.119
<v Speaker 6>made it really hard. I made it harder than it

1132
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.920
<v Speaker 6>needed to be. You know.

1133
01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:41.039
<v Speaker 5>It's just like, what was he a here or was

1134
01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:42.280
<v Speaker 5>he a senior to you?

1135
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.320
<v Speaker 6>He was? He was equal? So in the we're in

1136
01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:53.119
<v Speaker 6>snipers were both tab spectors, and it's just, you know,

1137
01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:57.320
<v Speaker 6>it was just pretty much dick measure and I mean

1138
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:01.519
<v Speaker 6>like trying to out do me whatever for whatever reason.

1139
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:05.719
<v Speaker 6>I don't know, but it's like that's still I mean,

1140
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:09.000
<v Speaker 6>that's why I coached high school football. It's like that's

1141
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:12.159
<v Speaker 6>the thing that you guys have. But I think a

1142
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:14.079
<v Speaker 6>lot of people have. They don't know that that needs

1143
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:18.239
<v Speaker 6>to be brought out. When you see something wrong, when

1144
01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:27.719
<v Speaker 6>you see hypocrisy, do something m and and and I

1145
01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:30.880
<v Speaker 6>think it's time that people listen to two warriors, the

1146
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:33.719
<v Speaker 6>warrior class of people of men and women some women.

1147
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:39.119
<v Speaker 2>What was uh, what was it like now going back

1148
01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:41.719
<v Speaker 2>to war with the Ranger Regiment because as you point out,

1149
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:44.840
<v Speaker 2>like the technology had changed, but the regiment was also

1150
01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:47.199
<v Speaker 2>going through tremendous changes at the time. And I mean

1151
01:06:47.239 --> 01:06:49.280
<v Speaker 2>you said you did a couple of pumpst Afghanistan, a

1152
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:50.079
<v Speaker 2>couple to Iraq.

1153
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:55.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, one to Afghanistan. I was pretty slow. I mean

1154
01:06:55.079 --> 01:06:58.719
<v Speaker 6>I probably should have had basic training again, I mean

1155
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:01.719
<v Speaker 6>I was. It took me a while to catch up,

1156
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:07.360
<v Speaker 6>it really did. So I did my best. Yeah, you know,

1157
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:09.320
<v Speaker 6>we we had the Jessica Lynch thing. We talked about

1158
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:13.119
<v Speaker 6>a little bit earlier where it still pisses me off,

1159
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.039
<v Speaker 6>but you know, we went there to get her and

1160
01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:19.320
<v Speaker 6>the nine American bodies that were buried in shallow graves

1161
01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:21.760
<v Speaker 6>for three weeks that we dug up that.

1162
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:25.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, I've heard story to herry up pretty that

1163
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:26.719
<v Speaker 1>it was pretty bad.

1164
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:33.559
<v Speaker 6>It was horrible. Yeah, but the worst you know, that's doable.

1165
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:36.599
<v Speaker 6>But the worst part is is here in the news

1166
01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:40.239
<v Speaker 6>and and just all the bs and it's like, never

1167
01:07:40.360 --> 01:07:42.679
<v Speaker 6>I never heard about the nine nine bodies.

1168
01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:46.719
<v Speaker 4>Do you remember, you know, when crazy like conspiracy theories

1169
01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:49.880
<v Speaker 4>had actually caught on to where even like major news

1170
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:55.000
<v Speaker 4>networks was that the Rangers had b fas on their weapons.

1171
01:07:55.280 --> 01:08:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Do you remember that it was so crazy in firing

1172
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:04.800
<v Speaker 4>an adaptor? So even mainstream media was like cat was

1173
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:06.679
<v Speaker 4>like sort of propagating.

1174
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:10.159
<v Speaker 5>They weren't like this is what happened? Like did this happen?

1175
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:13.280
<v Speaker 5>And so you know what does that mean? Was this right?

1176
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:16.279
<v Speaker 5>Just a hoax? It's like, where are you guys getting

1177
01:08:16.279 --> 01:08:17.159
<v Speaker 5>your information from?

1178
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:22.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's it's maddening if you let it, you know,

1179
01:08:22.199 --> 01:08:25.000
<v Speaker 6>I don't. I'm hesitant to bring up the name Pat Tillman,

1180
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:28.960
<v Speaker 6>but I saw in that movie that just came out

1181
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:33.319
<v Speaker 6>where he was thinking that we were just there to

1182
01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:36.479
<v Speaker 6>shoot airplanes. It's like, dude, like he didn't know that

1183
01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:39.439
<v Speaker 6>we were digging up bodies because they don't freaking communicate

1184
01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:43.640
<v Speaker 6>disem of that information, right, he didn't. He thought we

1185
01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:47.239
<v Speaker 6>were just there for hours. That I saw that, I

1186
01:08:47.319 --> 01:08:52.439
<v Speaker 6>was like, oh my god, that's m man, we're not

1187
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:53.199
<v Speaker 6>telling stories.

1188
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:53.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1189
01:08:54.600 --> 01:09:00.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So when when did the unit sort of come

1190
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.359
<v Speaker 4>on to your Were you like, I don't want to

1191
01:09:03.399 --> 01:09:05.399
<v Speaker 4>be a ranger, or were you like, I want to

1192
01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:06.000
<v Speaker 4>do this thing.

1193
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:10.520
<v Speaker 6>Rangers were cool. I just honestly like the physicality of it.

1194
01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:16.279
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I did it for almost six years total,

1195
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:19.520
<v Speaker 6>three years, and then the other enlistment almost three years.

1196
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:21.840
<v Speaker 6>I don't think I could have done it much longer.

1197
01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:27.520
<v Speaker 6>It is so demanding. I mean, I just so I

1198
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:29.560
<v Speaker 6>knew in the unit I knew he had. It was

1199
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:33.720
<v Speaker 6>hard to get there, but I knew that we didn't walk.

1200
01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:37.720
<v Speaker 6>They didn't walk everywhere. I just hated walking everywhere, eveno

1201
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:40.600
<v Speaker 6>I did seven hundred mile marks. But yeah, it was

1202
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:42.000
<v Speaker 6>kind of like, I wonder if I could do that,

1203
01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:47.079
<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna try, and had the opportunity. Patuon started and

1204
01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:49.680
<v Speaker 6>let me train and irack. So I walked around at

1205
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:53.520
<v Speaker 6>the MSS, those ten houses we had up and down

1206
01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:57.039
<v Speaker 6>those driveways with you know, bare feet sometimes just to

1207
01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:00.560
<v Speaker 6>toughen up my feet and get ready and you know.

1208
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:04.479
<v Speaker 6>And then there was something that there was this first sergeant.

1209
01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:07.399
<v Speaker 6>I had smart wool socks on. In Iraq during the war,

1210
01:10:08.239 --> 01:10:10.960
<v Speaker 6>we're wearing whatever we call it range uniform, like shorts

1211
01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:16.560
<v Speaker 6>and boots, T shirt for workout, whatever it was. I

1212
01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:19.359
<v Speaker 6>had some brown T shirt range of panties, right, yeah,

1213
01:10:19.399 --> 01:10:26.319
<v Speaker 6>how can I forget that? And he comes up, He's like, hey, ranger, buddy,

1214
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:29.760
<v Speaker 6>of those those army issued socks. I'm like, well, other

1215
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:31.960
<v Speaker 6>smart wool socks. First aret gotta change him. And I

1216
01:10:32.079 --> 01:10:35.119
<v Speaker 6>was like, man, that's it. The little thing, yeah, pushes

1217
01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:35.800
<v Speaker 6>me over the edge.

1218
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:36.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1219
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.640
<v Speaker 6>So I went to selection. Yeah, and all those dudes

1220
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:45.039
<v Speaker 6>were like, what do you what are you going for?

1221
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:46.000
<v Speaker 6>You're old.

1222
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:51.239
<v Speaker 1>And what was that experience like? And I mean did

1223
01:10:51.279 --> 01:10:52.880
<v Speaker 1>you kind of find what you were looking for in

1224
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:53.319
<v Speaker 1>the unit?

1225
01:10:54.279 --> 01:10:59.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah? And then some I mean it just loved it,

1226
01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:03.720
<v Speaker 6>loved it it. I don't I don't stay in touch

1227
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:05.600
<v Speaker 6>and go and go to reunions and all that like,

1228
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:09.880
<v Speaker 6>I'm it's not my identity anymore, right, But it was

1229
01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:12.760
<v Speaker 6>so cool because you know, and the Rangers there was like,

1230
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.000
<v Speaker 6>you don't get paid to think. I need to think, man,

1231
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:17.920
<v Speaker 6>lady needs to think, right, So I wanted to do that.

1232
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:19.119
<v Speaker 6>And then I get to the unit and they're like,

1233
01:11:19.840 --> 01:11:21.680
<v Speaker 6>you got to invent something in your first year. I

1234
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:24.119
<v Speaker 6>was like, cool, I'm in the right place. Yeah cool.

1235
01:11:25.239 --> 01:11:29.479
<v Speaker 4>And when when you showed up the unit, did you

1236
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:32.960
<v Speaker 4>go to the line or did you go to the sniper,

1237
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:34.199
<v Speaker 4>Like where did you go first?

1238
01:11:34.239 --> 01:11:35.000
<v Speaker 5>Where did you end up?

1239
01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:38.239
<v Speaker 6>So I got through selection my first try, and I'm

1240
01:11:38.319 --> 01:11:40.600
<v Speaker 6>elated walking on you know, Oh I made it the

1241
01:11:40.600 --> 01:11:46.880
<v Speaker 6>first time. Then I get to OTC and failed. I

1242
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:49.720
<v Speaker 6>made it to the end. My pistol shooting just sucked.

1243
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:52.119
<v Speaker 6>I mean I never saw a pistol. I never sat

1244
01:11:52.119 --> 01:11:58.239
<v Speaker 6>a gun before I joined the army. So yeah, I mean,

1245
01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:00.000
<v Speaker 6>you're gonna shoot a live round in a real airplace,

1246
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.560
<v Speaker 6>and you got to be into a bullet trap. You

1247
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:03.199
<v Speaker 6>can't mince.

1248
01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:06.119
<v Speaker 5>And in the nineties, rangers and that, like now Rangers

1249
01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:08.760
<v Speaker 5>have pistols. In the nineties they didn't like maybe the

1250
01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:12.560
<v Speaker 5>squad leader, I don't know, maybe I can't remember, but yeah.

1251
01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:15.199
<v Speaker 6>Well and then you know the yeah yeah, the beauty

1252
01:12:15.239 --> 01:12:20.560
<v Speaker 6>commander was Burretta but yeah, I mean but that it

1253
01:12:20.720 --> 01:12:23.279
<v Speaker 6>was important. So I failed. I made all through and failed,

1254
01:12:23.319 --> 01:12:26.720
<v Speaker 6>and that's how I became a dog handler. So you know,

1255
01:12:26.840 --> 01:12:30.119
<v Speaker 6>twenty five thirty percent of people fail LOTC. It's not

1256
01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:35.600
<v Speaker 6>an uncommon thing. I had a plan. I had seen Rudy,

1257
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:39.920
<v Speaker 6>this awesome dog when I was a ranger with the unit,

1258
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:42.000
<v Speaker 6>so I was like, I want to do that. So

1259
01:12:42.119 --> 01:12:45.600
<v Speaker 6>I failed, and I asked the sorry major telling me

1260
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.800
<v Speaker 6>that I failed, if I could do that, and he said,

1261
01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:50.359
<v Speaker 6>hold on a second. He came right back and he's like,

1262
01:12:51.279 --> 01:12:54.600
<v Speaker 6>you're going to see You're going to squadron. So so

1263
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:58.399
<v Speaker 6>I'm a West Virginia graduate but a no TC failure,

1264
01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:04.000
<v Speaker 6>so I'm directed right, Okay, cool. That was priceless because

1265
01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:11.199
<v Speaker 6>I really learned to appreciate everybody now that i'm director.

1266
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:16.640
<v Speaker 6>I failed something. I'm not superman anymore. And I had

1267
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:19.840
<v Speaker 6>this wonderful dog, Pepper, who you know we've talked about

1268
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:25.600
<v Speaker 6>a lot and it was a great experience. I hit

1269
01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.960
<v Speaker 6>her for two years. She was killed in six After that,

1270
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:33.840
<v Speaker 6>I went back to OTC crushed. It was drafted first,

1271
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:37.279
<v Speaker 6>you know, up high like they have a draft, So

1272
01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:41.920
<v Speaker 6>it was Yeah, then it was straight to a sniper

1273
01:13:41.960 --> 01:13:46.960
<v Speaker 6>wreckie team. And you know we still do assault of course,

1274
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:49.840
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's pretty much what you do. And so

1275
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:53.119
<v Speaker 6>the rest of my years just on a couple of

1276
01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:58.159
<v Speaker 6>different teams and different squadrons, and I mean we just

1277
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:04.159
<v Speaker 6>hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of of hits every night,

1278
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:04.640
<v Speaker 6>all night.

1279
01:14:05.479 --> 01:14:08.880
<v Speaker 5>How how mature when you went direct support?

1280
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:09.279
<v Speaker 6>Uh?

1281
01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:12.319
<v Speaker 5>How how mature was the dog program at that time?

1282
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:18.760
<v Speaker 6>I would say, not fledgling, but but close. Uh we

1283
01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:23.119
<v Speaker 6>could do CQB without issue. That dogs knew what they

1284
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:30.520
<v Speaker 6>were doing. So it was still young but not established

1285
01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:33.680
<v Speaker 6>there were it was only at the unit. Yeah, very interesting.

1286
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Yet what were what was the role of the dogs

1287
01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>of the unit? I mean you were the knine handlers

1288
01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:39.079
<v Speaker 1>at that time.

1289
01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:44.760
<v Speaker 6>Two main two main things like detection and uh, you know,

1290
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:50.520
<v Speaker 6>going after a person attack like so some of them

1291
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:54.560
<v Speaker 6>you know, well, yeah, my thing was, uh, you know,

1292
01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:58.239
<v Speaker 6>a squirter, somebody's gonna try and run away. This this

1293
01:14:58.520 --> 01:15:02.479
<v Speaker 6>fifty three pound girl can uh, she's gonna get you. Yeah,

1294
01:15:02.960 --> 01:15:06.000
<v Speaker 6>and she's like awesome around the house. She loves with

1295
01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:08.800
<v Speaker 6>the boys, so she you know, yeah, so yeah.

1296
01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:12.439
<v Speaker 4>The breathe, I don't know if people want that out,

1297
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:15.640
<v Speaker 4>but the breath that they use is it's amazing.

1298
01:15:15.880 --> 01:15:16.239
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

1299
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:18.640
<v Speaker 4>It's not a house pet, you know, it's it's not

1300
01:15:19.039 --> 01:15:21.880
<v Speaker 4>it's not something you get for you know, your two

1301
01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:25.479
<v Speaker 4>bedroom apartment in New York. But it's I mean, it's

1302
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:29.880
<v Speaker 4>a working dog, smart as hell light and when they

1303
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:30.800
<v Speaker 4>turn it on, it's on.

1304
01:15:32.439 --> 01:15:32.640
<v Speaker 5>Yep.

1305
01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:35.680
<v Speaker 6>They're pointy eared dogs, and there's there's a few varieties,

1306
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:39.239
<v Speaker 6>but the pointiered ones are the ones that mean business.

1307
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:43.880
<v Speaker 6>And then they go through selection. That's pretty cool. You know,

1308
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:45.720
<v Speaker 6>out of one hundred dogs will get one or two

1309
01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:51.600
<v Speaker 6>that will like my dog Pepper. You know, they had

1310
01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:53.399
<v Speaker 6>to set up in a dark room looks like a

1311
01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:55.760
<v Speaker 6>hole in the wall, and they you know, like and

1312
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:59.560
<v Speaker 6>she jumped into a hole blindly. Yeah wow, and like yeah,

1313
01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.640
<v Speaker 6>that's how you know. There's there's tests to see if

1314
01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:03.119
<v Speaker 6>they're going to do it. Yeah.

1315
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:07.479
<v Speaker 4>A friend of mine who who has a I think

1316
01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:09.920
<v Speaker 4>three of them I can't remember me for but she

1317
01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:13.359
<v Speaker 4>was saying that that a lot of times they use

1318
01:16:13.399 --> 01:16:14.800
<v Speaker 4>the females because they're more aggressive.

1319
01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:15.199
<v Speaker 5>The males.

1320
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:17.319
<v Speaker 4>The males get a little dopey and a little too

1321
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:21.199
<v Speaker 4>friendly sometimes and that honestly, like sometimes the smaller the

1322
01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:26.239
<v Speaker 4>dog that like, the more aggressive it it can be.

1323
01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:31.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I mean she was she was fifty three pounds.

1324
01:16:31.800 --> 01:16:33.960
<v Speaker 6>She was small, and there was this kind of bruiser

1325
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:37.279
<v Speaker 6>in the kennels, you know who old Salt who had

1326
01:16:37.279 --> 01:16:40.880
<v Speaker 6>been there and he uh one time we kept him

1327
01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:43.600
<v Speaker 6>all separate, but there was one time where he got

1328
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:46.479
<v Speaker 6>out and Pepper was out and he tried to give

1329
01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:48.720
<v Speaker 6>her some stuff and she whipped his ass right back

1330
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:52.399
<v Speaker 6>in his kennel. It was it was amazing, Yeah, yeah, amazing.

1331
01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Do you have any any memorable moments from that time

1332
01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:58.159
<v Speaker 2>as a canine handler that stand out for you?

1333
01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:03.199
<v Speaker 6>It was it was so uh so now I'm with

1334
01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:06.199
<v Speaker 6>like a delta team, you know, I'm attached to them,

1335
01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:13.680
<v Speaker 6>uh feeling feeling sort of worthy, but not like TC

1336
01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:17.840
<v Speaker 6>because if I it's like looking back, you know, it

1337
01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:20.439
<v Speaker 6>was like my identity was so dependent and that's just

1338
01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:22.239
<v Speaker 6>where I was at the time. It's okay, like I

1339
01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:26.239
<v Speaker 6>know now that you know, I'm a I'm a person

1340
01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:28.399
<v Speaker 6>and a father and God loves me and all this,

1341
01:17:30.159 --> 01:17:33.640
<v Speaker 6>But it took a long time to get our first bite.

1342
01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:37.239
<v Speaker 6>So uh, just a few missions. You know, there just

1343
01:17:37.359 --> 01:17:41.199
<v Speaker 6>wasn't conditions. I'm not just gonna bite somebody. So finally,

1344
01:17:41.319 --> 01:17:44.640
<v Speaker 6>like we're taking some uh some guys that you know,

1345
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:48.520
<v Speaker 6>detainees off off a helo. So it's dark night, you know,

1346
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:51.359
<v Speaker 6>blot whatever wherever it was, just you know, the noise,

1347
01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:54.199
<v Speaker 6>can't hear anything. You got to get right up and screaming.

1348
01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:58.600
<v Speaker 6>Somebody's ear to to say anything. We're getting these detainees

1349
01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:03.039
<v Speaker 6>off and retired, and we're walking them and this never

1350
01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:07.159
<v Speaker 6>happened except for that time. This dude starts leaning back

1351
01:18:07.239 --> 01:18:10.039
<v Speaker 6>into me. I hadn't been to Seris school yet. I

1352
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:13.279
<v Speaker 6>didn't know anything about resistance. He's resisting me. I didn't

1353
01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:15.520
<v Speaker 6>know what was going on. And then I'm just like

1354
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:18.239
<v Speaker 6>I didn't know what to do. So so then he

1355
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:23.560
<v Speaker 6>like turns around, and I was clueless, and I'm like

1356
01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:25.199
<v Speaker 6>at the end of the line, so nobody's seeing me.

1357
01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:31.000
<v Speaker 6>Pepper my dog comes around and bites this dude right

1358
01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:37.359
<v Speaker 6>in the junk and and he's just like, yeah, you know,

1359
01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:40.439
<v Speaker 6>and the truth the guys turn around, the guys that

1360
01:18:40.520 --> 01:18:42.840
<v Speaker 6>I want to like be accepted into, they turn around

1361
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:49.520
<v Speaker 6>and they're just like, she did it finally, so and

1362
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:51.159
<v Speaker 6>it was it was the right thing. This dude was

1363
01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:52.479
<v Speaker 6>I don't know what, you know.

1364
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:55.439
<v Speaker 1>So the dodd just didn't like that dude bowing up

1365
01:18:55.479 --> 01:18:56.039
<v Speaker 1>on you like that.

1366
01:18:56.439 --> 01:19:01.520
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, right, it was so cool. So yeah, that was

1367
01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:04.319
<v Speaker 6>the first one, and then everything was smoother after that.

1368
01:19:05.159 --> 01:19:08.039
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you know, until she got killed. But we're

1369
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:10.000
<v Speaker 6>going after Zarkkawi when she got killed. I don't know

1370
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:11.760
<v Speaker 6>if you guys remember a MS. Yeah, of course you do.

1371
01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:17.159
<v Speaker 6>At the time, you know, forget about Bin Lauden, like

1372
01:19:17.439 --> 01:19:20.640
<v Speaker 6>Zark Cowie was. You know, we wanted to get our

1373
01:19:20.680 --> 01:19:24.119
<v Speaker 6>hands on him. He's sawing off people's heads, recording it

1374
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:26.279
<v Speaker 6>and putting it out for the world to see. He's

1375
01:19:27.319 --> 01:19:32.319
<v Speaker 6>he's evil. He's really really evil. So that's who we're

1376
01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:34.640
<v Speaker 6>going after. When she got killed on the Tigers River,

1377
01:19:34.840 --> 01:19:36.399
<v Speaker 6>what turned out not to be him, But you don't

1378
01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:39.600
<v Speaker 6>know until you find everybody that's trying to run away.

1379
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know it's a painful experience, but do

1380
01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:44.199
<v Speaker 2>you want to talk about what happened that day?

1381
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:49.520
<v Speaker 6>Sure? Yeah, And you know it's funny when I tried

1382
01:19:49.560 --> 01:19:51.680
<v Speaker 6>to die, when I decided I was going to die

1383
01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:56.760
<v Speaker 6>in twenty fourteen, Like I said, my brother committed suicide.

1384
01:19:57.079 --> 01:19:59.680
<v Speaker 6>I did the only thing crazier than suicide. At the time,

1385
01:19:59.720 --> 01:20:01.520
<v Speaker 6>I was like, I'm going to go to the mental hospital.

1386
01:20:01.560 --> 01:20:06.720
<v Speaker 6>And the day that's nuts. So I drove to the

1387
01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:12.039
<v Speaker 6>Durham Va High and got myself checked into the mental board.

1388
01:20:15.399 --> 01:20:20.279
<v Speaker 1>Helped me out about the mission with Pepper in twenty sixteen.

1389
01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:23.399
<v Speaker 6>So thank you. So I quickly got out of there.

1390
01:20:23.439 --> 01:20:27.640
<v Speaker 6>There my roommate had one arm and a torso in

1391
01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:29.920
<v Speaker 6>his head. Nope, he was missing two legs in one arm.

1392
01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:33.479
<v Speaker 6>And when that dude turned and looked at me, I

1393
01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:36.760
<v Speaker 6>wanted out because his eyes were death in a different way.

1394
01:20:38.119 --> 01:20:40.399
<v Speaker 6>So he helped me, and I, you know, but I

1395
01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:42.159
<v Speaker 6>got out. It took three days to get out. I

1396
01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:45.159
<v Speaker 6>got out, and then on my follow on, I had

1397
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:50.000
<v Speaker 6>this great doctor, this awesome therapist, Sarah Boating, actress, Sarah Boating.

1398
01:20:50.039 --> 01:20:53.159
<v Speaker 6>She was incredible. She talked to me and then we

1399
01:20:53.239 --> 01:20:55.840
<v Speaker 6>ended up doing prolonged exposure, which is telling the same

1400
01:20:55.920 --> 01:20:59.319
<v Speaker 6>story over and over. And I chose Pepper and Lance Cornette,

1401
01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:01.199
<v Speaker 6>good buddy of mine had been killed the night before

1402
01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:07.479
<v Speaker 6>she was killed, and uh so for a year and

1403
01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:09.119
<v Speaker 6>a half. I went to the VA as part of

1404
01:21:09.159 --> 01:21:13.920
<v Speaker 6>my recovery, telling this story close in my eyes, trusting,

1405
01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:18.279
<v Speaker 6>you know, this awesome doctor who I'm still in touch with.

1406
01:21:18.359 --> 01:21:20.840
<v Speaker 6>You know, these guys. There's there's good help at the

1407
01:21:20.920 --> 01:21:25.239
<v Speaker 6>VA if you can find it. For eighteen months, and

1408
01:21:25.279 --> 01:21:28.199
<v Speaker 6>then right towards the end of that, I get contacted

1409
01:21:28.239 --> 01:21:30.640
<v Speaker 6>by HBO and Channing Tady wants to do this documentary.

1410
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:33.119
<v Speaker 6>It was like, oh my gosh, So I wrote this

1411
01:21:33.560 --> 01:21:35.880
<v Speaker 6>little thing called Suicide the Red Carpet because in three

1412
01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:38.119
<v Speaker 6>years it was like I'm trying to die and then

1413
01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:41.479
<v Speaker 6>I'm literally walking the red carpet talking about my dog story,

1414
01:21:41.560 --> 01:21:45.039
<v Speaker 6>which you know, I learned to say it speak it

1415
01:21:45.119 --> 01:21:47.840
<v Speaker 6>well at the VA. So it was it was clearly,

1416
01:21:48.680 --> 01:21:52.560
<v Speaker 6>uh you know sort of I had help if.

1417
01:21:53.199 --> 01:21:58.520
<v Speaker 1>The therapy day, yeah yeah, And so what what did happen?

1418
01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:03.039
<v Speaker 6>Well, we're going after eight one squatter. There's this massive

1419
01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:08.000
<v Speaker 6>combined units thing and we just had a little, a

1420
01:22:08.079 --> 01:22:11.880
<v Speaker 6>little job. We were rerec team around little birds. We

1421
01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:15.079
<v Speaker 6>were just squarter control. So there's all this coordinated stuff

1422
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:17.399
<v Speaker 6>with this village in South Baghdad, and now this is

1423
01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:21.479
<v Speaker 6>a nasty, nasty, nasty neighborhood, and I remember flying in

1424
01:22:21.720 --> 01:22:27.079
<v Speaker 6>seeing hoods of humbies on the ground in parts really bad.

1425
01:22:28.239 --> 01:22:31.760
<v Speaker 6>So we going to night. There was like even one

1426
01:22:31.840 --> 01:22:33.560
<v Speaker 6>hundred and first Airborne was part of this. There was

1427
01:22:33.800 --> 01:22:38.239
<v Speaker 6>units all over the place doing things. We're squarter control.

1428
01:22:38.600 --> 01:22:40.760
<v Speaker 6>We were flying there, no squarters, boom. We went home.

1429
01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:44.560
<v Speaker 6>It was five minutes from the airfield. We're back. We

1430
01:22:44.680 --> 01:22:46.399
<v Speaker 6>get off the birds and they you know, oh, there's

1431
01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:49.479
<v Speaker 6>a quarter. So we go back and me and Pepper.

1432
01:22:50.119 --> 01:22:52.439
<v Speaker 6>It had started real early at night, So we get

1433
01:22:52.439 --> 01:22:54.319
<v Speaker 6>back there. It's maybe nine thirty ten o'clock at night,

1434
01:22:55.079 --> 01:22:58.680
<v Speaker 6>going after a squirter on the the banks of the

1435
01:22:58.760 --> 01:23:05.960
<v Speaker 6>Tigers River in south Baghdad. And maybe one day I'll

1436
01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:10.399
<v Speaker 6>be able to explain how thick, thicker than Panama this

1437
01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:13.920
<v Speaker 6>stuff was at the the you know, on the edge

1438
01:23:13.920 --> 01:23:17.920
<v Speaker 6>of the river. So we get the squirter. You know,

1439
01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:21.279
<v Speaker 6>we're being sold from eyes above, from bird's eye. He's

1440
01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:24.239
<v Speaker 6>right there, he's ten feet in front of you. I

1441
01:23:24.359 --> 01:23:28.359
<v Speaker 6>can't say, are you sure? Yeah, yep, But it's straight

1442
01:23:28.399 --> 01:23:31.640
<v Speaker 6>down and it's raining and it's muddy, and it's February.

1443
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:38.560
<v Speaker 6>I slide down. Once I scrambled back up I send Pepper.

1444
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.239
<v Speaker 6>We hear a pop and it's sounds like a nine

1445
01:23:41.239 --> 01:23:48.439
<v Speaker 6>mil pop, muffled and and nothing. So we're trying to

1446
01:23:48.439 --> 01:23:51.319
<v Speaker 6>figure out what to do. Blub blah blah. Pepper comes

1447
01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:53.840
<v Speaker 6>walking back up the hill like I don't know if

1448
01:23:53.880 --> 01:23:56.720
<v Speaker 6>it's five minutes or an hour later. Probably five minutes

1449
01:23:57.039 --> 01:24:00.640
<v Speaker 6>she comes walking up the hill like dopey. I'm thinking

1450
01:24:00.680 --> 01:24:02.159
<v Speaker 6>she's shot and losing blod so I you know, I

1451
01:24:02.279 --> 01:24:04.039
<v Speaker 6>know what to do. My wife is a vetech at

1452
01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:07.119
<v Speaker 6>the unit, Laura Miller. She's awesome, not at the time,

1453
01:24:07.159 --> 01:24:11.239
<v Speaker 6>but now she's my wife. I'm checking Pepper for bullet holes.

1454
01:24:11.239 --> 01:24:13.800
<v Speaker 6>There's nothing, and as I'm doing that, she's like, all right, hey,

1455
01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:16.520
<v Speaker 6>leme alone, let me alone. She comes back to life.

1456
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:19.079
<v Speaker 6>So I'm and she's soaking wet. So I was like

1457
01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:24.720
<v Speaker 6>she was partially drowned. You know, it appears because she's

1458
01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:29.439
<v Speaker 6>not shot anywhere, there's no wounds, so she recovered. She's back.

1459
01:24:29.479 --> 01:24:33.600
<v Speaker 6>So now, man, we just we put everything we've got

1460
01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:37.319
<v Speaker 6>and everything we can call into this guy. We can't

1461
01:24:37.399 --> 01:24:42.319
<v Speaker 6>drop a bomb because there's billion houses right there, but

1462
01:24:42.399 --> 01:24:45.600
<v Speaker 6>we're doing everything short of that, and we're not touching him.

1463
01:24:46.039 --> 01:24:49.880
<v Speaker 6>He's got this spider hole. So on and on and

1464
01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:57.039
<v Speaker 6>on and on. I made the decision, and nobody told

1465
01:24:57.119 --> 01:24:59.600
<v Speaker 6>Nobody tells you to kill somebody. You never get orders

1466
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:04.880
<v Speaker 6>to kill somebody or to you know, you decide things

1467
01:25:04.960 --> 01:25:10.800
<v Speaker 6>like that. So I knew man. And there's a picture

1468
01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:13.239
<v Speaker 6>I sent you guys the name of that pictures last night.

1469
01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:14.800
<v Speaker 6>That was our last night. That was right before we

1470
01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:19.760
<v Speaker 6>went out, and Lance Cornet had been killed the night before.

1471
01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:24.640
<v Speaker 6>She and him were friends. So it's just like I

1472
01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:26.800
<v Speaker 6>sent her again. I made the decision to send her again.

1473
01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:30.920
<v Speaker 6>And she didn't come back that time, but she got

1474
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:33.680
<v Speaker 6>him out of the hole. And my buddy's like, there

1475
01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:36.760
<v Speaker 6>is I got, you know, shoots the guy dead birds.

1476
01:25:36.760 --> 01:25:41.800
<v Speaker 6>I sees him floating down the Tigris and we can't

1477
01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:46.239
<v Speaker 6>find Pepper. So we're looking and then I got her.

1478
01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:46.560
<v Speaker 4>I got her.

1479
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:49.079
<v Speaker 6>I got her. You know, somebody found her strobe light

1480
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:53.319
<v Speaker 6>or I r strobe that it come off. So I'm like, oh,

1481
01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:55.359
<v Speaker 6>she was in a fight, because you know, things anchored

1482
01:25:55.399 --> 01:25:59.159
<v Speaker 6>on there. She was in a fight. We looked. I

1483
01:25:59.199 --> 01:26:01.439
<v Speaker 6>got on a little bird and he just crabbed around

1484
01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:07.000
<v Speaker 6>the banks, you know, looking, looking, looking, and I knew

1485
01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:13.640
<v Speaker 6>what was coming. It's getting light, and I know the commander,

1486
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:17.000
<v Speaker 6>I know we got to go home, but I'm not

1487
01:26:17.279 --> 01:26:20.960
<v Speaker 6>gonna go home until I get Pepper. And you know,

1488
01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:24.439
<v Speaker 6>the call came and it's getting the sun's coming up there.

1489
01:26:24.479 --> 01:26:28.159
<v Speaker 6>We got to go and I just that's when everything snapped.

1490
01:26:28.199 --> 01:26:31.680
<v Speaker 6>That's when everything broke in me when because I punched

1491
01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:37.199
<v Speaker 6>the ground and I screamed, and that's when I that's

1492
01:26:37.199 --> 01:26:39.479
<v Speaker 6>when I really became a good warrior actually, because I

1493
01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:45.520
<v Speaker 6>was like, you know what, fuck everything. That's when everything changed.

1494
01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:48.039
<v Speaker 6>We got home and I threw that kennel about you

1495
01:26:48.119 --> 01:26:51.439
<v Speaker 6>know when we landed, and uh man, I had dreams

1496
01:26:52.520 --> 01:26:56.760
<v Speaker 6>for years that I was looking down like bird's eye

1497
01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:01.680
<v Speaker 6>view and she's coming back super super super tough.

1498
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:02.319
<v Speaker 5>People.

1499
01:27:02.479 --> 01:27:05.359
<v Speaker 2>People who are are watching this and maybe not familiar

1500
01:27:05.479 --> 01:27:09.840
<v Speaker 2>or like, might not understand how closely socialized the handlers

1501
01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:14.439
<v Speaker 2>are with the canines. I mean, do you want, if

1502
01:27:14.520 --> 01:27:16.800
<v Speaker 2>you're open to talk a little bit about like what

1503
01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:20.000
<v Speaker 2>that relationship's like and why you know the way you

1504
01:27:20.119 --> 01:27:22.279
<v Speaker 2>talk about it. You know, it's like losing a family member.

1505
01:27:23.239 --> 01:27:27.960
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, it was. I mean this was my best friend.

1506
01:27:28.079 --> 01:27:32.520
<v Speaker 6>And so I got Pepper. When I got to the

1507
01:27:32.600 --> 01:27:35.399
<v Speaker 6>kennels who Cammit dog handler and O four. They're showing

1508
01:27:35.439 --> 01:27:38.359
<v Speaker 6>me all these dogs and they're all and this is

1509
01:27:38.800 --> 01:27:40.640
<v Speaker 6>so and so, and he does he's good at this.

1510
01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:43.319
<v Speaker 6>And then I show Pepper and she's sitting down wagging

1511
01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:46.479
<v Speaker 6>her tail. And I just had my baby daughter. So

1512
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:49.000
<v Speaker 6>I'm like, oh, look at this little sweet girl. She's

1513
01:27:49.039 --> 01:27:51.239
<v Speaker 6>the only girl. And I'm like, I didn't say anying,

1514
01:27:51.279 --> 01:27:53.119
<v Speaker 6>like I want her. And they're like, well, she bites,

1515
01:27:53.159 --> 01:27:55.479
<v Speaker 6>but you know she's too small and blah blah blah,

1516
01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:58.279
<v Speaker 6>we'll probably get rid of her. So she was assigned

1517
01:27:58.319 --> 01:28:01.640
<v Speaker 6>to somebody else. He ended up getting the duy awesome dude,

1518
01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:04.960
<v Speaker 6>Sean Kelly love him. So I got Pepper, and I

1519
01:28:05.079 --> 01:28:10.199
<v Speaker 6>was so happy because she's so smart and but she

1520
01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:17.760
<v Speaker 6>she knew like reality, she knew, you know, and and

1521
01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:21.680
<v Speaker 6>ask from a from a real person because she didn't

1522
01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:23.199
<v Speaker 6>really care about me at first, and she gave me

1523
01:28:23.239 --> 01:28:25.840
<v Speaker 6>a chance. But like, I don't know why I did this,

1524
01:28:25.960 --> 01:28:28.800
<v Speaker 6>but I just after work, everybody go home after training,

1525
01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:30.920
<v Speaker 6>and I would take her out in the back. There

1526
01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:34.359
<v Speaker 6>was this like green grass meadow and I would just

1527
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:37.920
<v Speaker 6>lay there with her for a long time, as often

1528
01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:42.119
<v Speaker 6>as I could just to let her know that, like

1529
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:44.920
<v Speaker 6>this is real for me, and I know it is

1530
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:50.760
<v Speaker 6>for you. So we we bonded, you know. And and

1531
01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:53.239
<v Speaker 6>then the night before, you know, Lance Cornett being killed.

1532
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:57.279
<v Speaker 6>The night before, I didn't sleep. I I kicked the

1533
01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:01.079
<v Speaker 6>freaking heavy bag all night with her and there in

1534
01:29:01.119 --> 01:29:07.439
<v Speaker 6>the gym with me and necessary. Yeah, two nights in

1535
01:29:07.479 --> 01:29:12.199
<v Speaker 6>a row. Oh my gosh, I don't remember that, like

1536
01:29:12.319 --> 01:29:14.239
<v Speaker 6>for two days after that, I don't remember.

1537
01:29:16.359 --> 01:29:19.520
<v Speaker 5>To put things in context for people. I'm sure everybody's

1538
01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:20.000
<v Speaker 5>fallen along.

1539
01:29:20.079 --> 01:29:23.680
<v Speaker 4>But a squirter is somebody who runs off target right

1540
01:29:24.119 --> 01:29:27.600
<v Speaker 4>when you know you have bad guys, Like, a squirter

1541
01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:32.119
<v Speaker 4>is a person who runs Now. Early in the war,

1542
01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:37.239
<v Speaker 4>that was sort of like they're retreating. What we eventually learned, though,

1543
01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.119
<v Speaker 4>is that there was no such thing as a squirter.

1544
01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:43.079
<v Speaker 4>There were only maneuver elements. And if they didn't have

1545
01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:45.199
<v Speaker 4>a weapon on them when they squirted, they were running

1546
01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:48.600
<v Speaker 4>to a cash to get a weapon, and.

1547
01:29:51.159 --> 01:29:53.399
<v Speaker 5>They would buy and wait, and they would wait for

1548
01:29:54.319 --> 01:29:55.720
<v Speaker 5>X phil and then they would come.

1549
01:29:55.640 --> 01:29:58.439
<v Speaker 4>Out blasting, or they'd blast from a covered position or

1550
01:29:58.560 --> 01:30:01.000
<v Speaker 4>a concealed position like this guy would have done.

1551
01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:05.000
<v Speaker 5>So it's not he was. He wasn't out of them.

1552
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:06.439
<v Speaker 5>That dude was not out of the fight.

1553
01:30:06.680 --> 01:30:10.520
<v Speaker 6>That dude was waiting for his moments exactly. He wasn't

1554
01:30:10.560 --> 01:30:12.000
<v Speaker 6>scared if the cops come in to my house. I'm

1555
01:30:12.039 --> 01:30:16.000
<v Speaker 6>not gonna run right today? Right?

1556
01:30:18.079 --> 01:30:18.920
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, what is it?

1557
01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:23.279
<v Speaker 1>It did this kind of like this was sort of

1558
01:30:23.399 --> 01:30:25.720
<v Speaker 1>like the end of your time in the K nine unit.

1559
01:30:25.800 --> 01:30:27.840
<v Speaker 2>You were I mean, am I wrong to say that

1560
01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:30.720
<v Speaker 2>you were a bit emotionally traumatized by that experience and

1561
01:30:30.920 --> 01:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>like couldn't take another dog after that.

1562
01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:36.600
<v Speaker 6>You're not wrong, And I never really thought about it,

1563
01:30:36.680 --> 01:30:39.079
<v Speaker 6>but I wouldn't have It just so happened to be.

1564
01:30:39.359 --> 01:30:43.760
<v Speaker 6>Thankfully at the point where I was going back to

1565
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:47.199
<v Speaker 6>Twoice to OTC there was a two year wait since

1566
01:30:47.199 --> 01:30:49.560
<v Speaker 6>I had failed, so it's like you can go back

1567
01:30:49.560 --> 01:30:50.800
<v Speaker 6>and try in two years, and that was just a

1568
01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:55.039
<v Speaker 6>couple of months before it so kind of again ordained

1569
01:30:55.600 --> 01:31:01.479
<v Speaker 6>to me. Yeah, I wouldn't have done it again. It

1570
01:31:02.680 --> 01:31:04.920
<v Speaker 6>was the hardest work too. Besides being ranged private, the

1571
01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:08.640
<v Speaker 6>dog handler is extremely hard work. Jumping off of a

1572
01:31:08.720 --> 01:31:13.920
<v Speaker 6>black Hawk with a dog on a twenty inch elastic

1573
01:31:14.039 --> 01:31:18.640
<v Speaker 6>tether is something to do, or you know, getting over

1574
01:31:18.640 --> 01:31:21.119
<v Speaker 6>a sandlink fence. Oh my goodness, was that difficult but

1575
01:31:22.560 --> 01:31:24.680
<v Speaker 6>well worth it. And you know she used to like

1576
01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:28.359
<v Speaker 6>So the night after Lance died, we're at the MSS.

1577
01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:31.840
<v Speaker 6>Those houses Oudi and Kus's house is on the river,

1578
01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:34.640
<v Speaker 6>is where we just where we lived for years. So

1579
01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:39.880
<v Speaker 6>somebody dies. Man, the next day, it's quiet, of course,

1580
01:31:40.039 --> 01:31:46.479
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's somb it's there's no words. But life

1581
01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:51.359
<v Speaker 6>goes on. And so you get up and four or

1582
01:31:51.359 --> 01:31:53.119
<v Speaker 6>five o'clock in the afternoon because you would go out

1583
01:31:53.159 --> 01:31:56.840
<v Speaker 6>at night. So so Pepper would go around and Man

1584
01:31:56.920 --> 01:32:00.359
<v Speaker 6>that night or that day, I uh, I just let

1585
01:32:00.399 --> 01:32:02.760
<v Speaker 6>her go some you know usually, and I could hear

1586
01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:06.319
<v Speaker 6>her going room to room normally it was like Pepper,

1587
01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:09.159
<v Speaker 6>you know, but it was just like, oh hey Pepper,

1588
01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:13.359
<v Speaker 6>and then you know, another room and she would just

1589
01:32:13.439 --> 01:32:16.520
<v Speaker 6>make her rounds. Man, it's like no other dog could

1590
01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:18.399
<v Speaker 6>do that. I don't I don't know what goes on nowadays,

1591
01:32:18.439 --> 01:32:25.199
<v Speaker 6>but she she could do that. So, man, these guys,

1592
01:32:25.319 --> 01:32:28.159
<v Speaker 6>I love these dudes that I was with. Man, it

1593
01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:34.680
<v Speaker 6>was I Team, Reckie, Troop and Squadron. They they were

1594
01:32:34.760 --> 01:32:38.199
<v Speaker 6>her uncles. I mean, this was they. They thought that

1595
01:32:39.359 --> 01:32:41.720
<v Speaker 6>she she thought that we were a pack. So they

1596
01:32:41.840 --> 01:32:46.960
<v Speaker 6>did everything they could, really really to find her, man,

1597
01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:47.680
<v Speaker 6>and we just could not.

1598
01:32:48.239 --> 01:32:51.720
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, generally, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

1599
01:32:53.560 --> 01:32:57.079
<v Speaker 4>but generally those dogs are not that well socialized, where

1600
01:32:57.560 --> 01:33:00.520
<v Speaker 4>a lot of times only their hangler can really be

1601
01:33:00.600 --> 01:33:03.279
<v Speaker 4>physical with him, be like playful with him stuff like that.

1602
01:33:04.319 --> 01:33:04.960
<v Speaker 5>Is that correct?

1603
01:33:05.800 --> 01:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

1604
01:33:06.079 --> 01:33:08.960
<v Speaker 6>Very much so. And Pepper was seven years old and

1605
01:33:09.119 --> 01:33:11.680
<v Speaker 6>she so she had been taken home. She was from Belgium.

1606
01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:16.560
<v Speaker 6>She had you know, some somebody that had taken her home.

1607
01:33:16.600 --> 01:33:19.399
<v Speaker 6>So she was very well socialized, you know, and in

1608
01:33:19.479 --> 01:33:22.000
<v Speaker 6>that naivete or whatever of the dog programming, oh I

1609
01:33:22.119 --> 01:33:24.800
<v Speaker 6>want this dog kept it. You know. I would put

1610
01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:27.119
<v Speaker 6>a poncho liner in Pepper's kennel when we flew over

1611
01:33:27.239 --> 01:33:30.159
<v Speaker 6>Iraq on the bottom because it's so cold, you know.

1612
01:33:31.199 --> 01:33:33.359
<v Speaker 6>And they'd make fun of me, and I'm like, hey man, whatever,

1613
01:33:33.439 --> 01:33:35.520
<v Speaker 6>loving Pepper's wrong. I don't want to be right because

1614
01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:40.000
<v Speaker 6>we were good. But yeah, most of the other dogs,

1615
01:33:40.840 --> 01:33:45.680
<v Speaker 6>you know, Rudy just I love that. Almost everybody got

1616
01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:49.039
<v Speaker 6>a complimentary bite from Rudy. It'd come up, you know,

1617
01:33:49.159 --> 01:33:51.079
<v Speaker 6>people be standing there and he knows it. They're like,

1618
01:33:51.119 --> 01:33:53.279
<v Speaker 6>what do I do? Pet him? I don't know, man,

1619
01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:55.960
<v Speaker 6>you might get bit if you pet him, you might

1620
01:33:55.960 --> 01:33:59.880
<v Speaker 6>get if you don't, just a little snap bite. But

1621
01:34:00.079 --> 01:34:02.960
<v Speaker 6>it was, you know, yeah, incredible animals.

1622
01:34:04.399 --> 01:34:07.039
<v Speaker 2>So what was it like then landing in the UH

1623
01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Sniper Wreckie Troup When you became you passed oughtc the

1624
01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:13.640
<v Speaker 2>second time, became an operator.

1625
01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:18.880
<v Speaker 6>When that switch happened and I didn't really wasn't cognizant

1626
01:34:18.880 --> 01:34:22.439
<v Speaker 6>of it at the time, but when when after Pepper died,

1627
01:34:22.479 --> 01:34:25.520
<v Speaker 6>and you know, I just was like I tuned out

1628
01:34:25.760 --> 01:34:29.680
<v Speaker 6>and it worked. It got me to where I could

1629
01:34:30.479 --> 01:34:32.279
<v Speaker 6>shoot pistol, I could do whatever I gotta do. I

1630
01:34:32.479 --> 01:34:37.760
<v Speaker 6>get I'm you know, now I can run, i can

1631
01:34:37.840 --> 01:34:40.920
<v Speaker 6>keep up with with the young guys, and I'm driven again.

1632
01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:43.640
<v Speaker 6>I have a purpose. I'm gonna be the best operator

1633
01:34:43.640 --> 01:34:51.119
<v Speaker 6>I can be all that. So I did gosh oh,

1634
01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:54.960
<v Speaker 6>and then so we get we start to plan what

1635
01:34:55.399 --> 01:34:57.279
<v Speaker 6>the next like switch for me, what really took me

1636
01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:01.239
<v Speaker 6>kind of over the edge was going out and capturing

1637
01:35:01.279 --> 01:35:05.000
<v Speaker 6>these guys two and three times yep, and then our

1638
01:35:05.199 --> 01:35:07.359
<v Speaker 6>mates getting shot in the rick harm. I got shot

1639
01:35:07.359 --> 01:35:10.079
<v Speaker 6>in the head and it's like by somebody that we

1640
01:35:10.159 --> 01:35:15.439
<v Speaker 6>had rolled up And I don't mind saying it's like,

1641
01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:17.439
<v Speaker 6>I'm going to talk about this the rest of my life.

1642
01:35:18.199 --> 01:35:23.000
<v Speaker 6>I made a decision if it was legal, moral and ethical,

1643
01:35:23.520 --> 01:35:27.319
<v Speaker 6>if it lined up, boss, do you want this guy dead? Yep,

1644
01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:31.039
<v Speaker 6>all right, he's dead because I had a new daughter,

1645
01:35:32.000 --> 01:35:34.880
<v Speaker 6>a brand new baby girl, and I just made that

1646
01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:40.039
<v Speaker 6>decision and I carried it. And when I coached football,

1647
01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:42.439
<v Speaker 6>I tell guys from this experience and I try to

1648
01:35:42.560 --> 01:35:47.199
<v Speaker 6>do try to get you know, work run every place

1649
01:35:47.279 --> 01:35:49.479
<v Speaker 6>so hard that you get a look from your teammates like,

1650
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:53.039
<v Speaker 6>who the hell are you? What are you doing? Because

1651
01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:57.920
<v Speaker 6>I got that look and they're like, and I kept

1652
01:35:57.960 --> 01:36:02.159
<v Speaker 6>it up, and not not for any reason. I just didn't.

1653
01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:06.239
<v Speaker 6>It's dumb to fight a war and not fight to

1654
01:36:06.359 --> 01:36:08.600
<v Speaker 6>win right through that.

1655
01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.960
<v Speaker 4>You know earlier when you were talking about the being

1656
01:36:12.039 --> 01:36:14.600
<v Speaker 4>in a college class and you know, the students who

1657
01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:15.479
<v Speaker 4>wanted to ask you more.

1658
01:36:17.239 --> 01:36:18.439
<v Speaker 5>One of the things I found.

1659
01:36:18.359 --> 01:36:22.000
<v Speaker 4>Very interesting, uh with civilians is and you can tell

1660
01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:24.159
<v Speaker 4>me if this match is your experience at all, is

1661
01:36:24.760 --> 01:36:27.039
<v Speaker 4>when they find out you've been in combat, they'll say, oh,

1662
01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:31.000
<v Speaker 4>the first question is always did you kill anybody?

1663
01:36:31.359 --> 01:36:33.680
<v Speaker 5>And then the second question is how did you get

1664
01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:33.960
<v Speaker 5>over it?

1665
01:36:34.079 --> 01:36:37.359
<v Speaker 4>Or how how did you, And and for me, it's

1666
01:36:37.359 --> 01:36:39.159
<v Speaker 4>always been like there's nothing to get over it, like

1667
01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:43.399
<v Speaker 4>they were, they were shitheads, like they were oxygen vampires,

1668
01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:46.039
<v Speaker 4>and they didn't need to be here like better luck,

1669
01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:46.680
<v Speaker 4>next life.

1670
01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:49.520
<v Speaker 6>The way to get over it is I need more

1671
01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:50.279
<v Speaker 6>like a drogue.

1672
01:36:50.600 --> 01:36:54.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean, and you know, like the id

1673
01:36:55.159 --> 01:36:57.439
<v Speaker 4>meakers were the worse because you'd roll them up and.

1674
01:36:57.439 --> 01:36:59.399
<v Speaker 5>They wouldn't even have they wuldn't even try and fight back.

1675
01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:03.399
<v Speaker 6>Yeah right, yeah, yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

1676
01:37:05.199 --> 01:37:06.000
<v Speaker 6>And good news for you.

1677
01:37:06.600 --> 01:37:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so you know, but you're you're another five

1678
01:37:10.279 --> 01:37:17.119
<v Speaker 2>years in the sniper Reckie troop at least. You know,

1679
01:37:17.279 --> 01:37:20.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm guessing this Timeframeworth talking about it's like it's a grind.

1680
01:37:20.359 --> 01:37:22.520
<v Speaker 2>It's back to back to back, like you're from that

1681
01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:25.720
<v Speaker 2>generation of operators that really got put through it.

1682
01:37:27.079 --> 01:37:29.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and I'm you know, I'm proud of that in

1683
01:37:29.199 --> 01:37:32.920
<v Speaker 6>a way that I'm using like this to tell my

1684
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:35.520
<v Speaker 6>story both where I was weak, where I was strong,

1685
01:37:35.640 --> 01:37:38.199
<v Speaker 6>what I learned where I screwed up to help the

1686
01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:44.119
<v Speaker 6>next generation. Yeah, it was a grind, my god, just

1687
01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:46.920
<v Speaker 6>back to back to back. And then let's throw in

1688
01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:49.239
<v Speaker 6>a surge in the middle of all this, and yeah,

1689
01:37:51.239 --> 01:37:54.079
<v Speaker 6>you know, going out, I got my journals. I have

1690
01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:56.520
<v Speaker 6>three leather bound journals in my safe, you know, with

1691
01:37:56.720 --> 01:37:59.960
<v Speaker 6>my my guns and my birth certificates for my kids.

1692
01:38:00.279 --> 01:38:04.720
<v Speaker 6>Like those things are. They're not very detailed, but I

1693
01:38:04.840 --> 01:38:08.279
<v Speaker 6>wrote in code so that I will know, you know,

1694
01:38:08.720 --> 01:38:11.119
<v Speaker 6>I will have memories of all that. So and it's

1695
01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:16.920
<v Speaker 6>not about numbers, it's not about being better than anybody else,

1696
01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:22.600
<v Speaker 6>but it is it. Man, I'm just scratching the surface.

1697
01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:24.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, we all are of of what of what

1698
01:38:25.079 --> 01:38:29.039
<v Speaker 2>it's like, I mean to any any other as far

1699
01:38:29.079 --> 01:38:31.960
<v Speaker 2>as like what it's like, any other aspects of it

1700
01:38:32.079 --> 01:38:34.000
<v Speaker 2>that you want to talk about or things that stand

1701
01:38:34.039 --> 01:38:35.920
<v Speaker 2>out in your mind from that period of time.

1702
01:38:42.319 --> 01:38:45.600
<v Speaker 6>I was saying, it was a decision, and that's where

1703
01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:50.479
<v Speaker 6>everything that starts with. And I've tried not to get

1704
01:38:50.520 --> 01:38:52.439
<v Speaker 6>political for a long time, but we can't. We can't

1705
01:38:52.439 --> 01:38:55.960
<v Speaker 6>avoid it. We have the biggest circus going on. It's

1706
01:38:56.560 --> 01:39:00.560
<v Speaker 6>it's almost like we're being punked. I mean I wouldn't,

1707
01:39:01.399 --> 01:39:07.640
<v Speaker 6>are we. So I'm sitting there watching the Trump rally

1708
01:39:07.760 --> 01:39:09.880
<v Speaker 6>President Trump Rally with my daughter and I saw that

1709
01:39:09.920 --> 01:39:11.199
<v Speaker 6>and I said, he just got shot in the ear.

1710
01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:14.479
<v Speaker 6>This is before an nobody knew. You could tell by

1711
01:39:14.479 --> 01:39:17.239
<v Speaker 6>the way he moved and the sound of the pop.

1712
01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:19.479
<v Speaker 6>She's like, what, he just got shot in the air.

1713
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:23.720
<v Speaker 6>Because we've seen so much of that, we've done so

1714
01:39:23.920 --> 01:39:30.439
<v Speaker 6>much of that, and then to just see this, I

1715
01:39:30.520 --> 01:39:31.960
<v Speaker 6>don't even know what to call it, and I don't.

1716
01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:37.319
<v Speaker 6>It's not looking down, but it is. I do feel

1717
01:39:37.319 --> 01:39:39.840
<v Speaker 6>like it's the sheep giving orders to the shepherds, and

1718
01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:43.880
<v Speaker 6>that needs to fucking stop. I don't know how, but

1719
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:46.800
<v Speaker 6>if I don't say what I just said, I'm not

1720
01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:53.960
<v Speaker 6>doing my part. And it's it's the video game ers

1721
01:39:54.680 --> 01:39:59.239
<v Speaker 6>telling the football players what it's like. Is the best

1722
01:39:59.279 --> 01:40:01.840
<v Speaker 6>analogy I can come up this. Yeah.

1723
01:40:03.600 --> 01:40:06.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's been an interesting.

1724
01:40:07.319 --> 01:40:10.199
<v Speaker 4>It's been an interesting dichotomy because you know, we saw

1725
01:40:11.039 --> 01:40:13.279
<v Speaker 4>sort of you know, like they are crazy people everywhere, right,

1726
01:40:13.399 --> 01:40:16.159
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we get him in our units, you know,

1727
01:40:16.319 --> 01:40:18.600
<v Speaker 4>you get him in politics, you get him in everywhere.

1728
01:40:21.079 --> 01:40:27.000
<v Speaker 4>And we saw sort of the QAnon phenomena, you know,

1729
01:40:27.279 --> 01:40:30.680
<v Speaker 4>on the riot, it's like, oh, well, the rights or

1730
01:40:30.760 --> 01:40:35.279
<v Speaker 4>really loons and now you have very large people with

1731
01:40:35.399 --> 01:40:38.760
<v Speaker 4>a very large presence and a lot of influence saying

1732
01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:40.079
<v Speaker 4>he wasn't shot.

1733
01:40:40.880 --> 01:40:43.039
<v Speaker 5>It was glass, it was this, it was that. And

1734
01:40:43.159 --> 01:40:48.039
<v Speaker 5>it's like, okay, so the left is equally susceptible.

1735
01:40:47.520 --> 01:40:49.079
<v Speaker 6>To That's that.

1736
01:40:49.279 --> 01:40:51.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, going on has been a thing for a

1737
01:40:51.960 --> 01:40:55.319
<v Speaker 2>long time. These people have been off the rails with

1738
01:40:55.880 --> 01:41:00.600
<v Speaker 2>conspiracy theories. Yeah, going back to about the time, about

1739
01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:02.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty the twenty sixteen timeframe.

1740
01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:07.439
<v Speaker 4>And it's just and you're right, it's very it's very frustrating.

1741
01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:13.520
<v Speaker 4>It's it's like a bad really, it's like an abusive relationship, right,

1742
01:41:13.880 --> 01:41:16.880
<v Speaker 4>it is the gas lighting. It's like you didn't see

1743
01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:19.079
<v Speaker 4>what you know, I wasn't in bed with her, Honey,

1744
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:20.680
<v Speaker 4>you didn't see that.

1745
01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:22.239
<v Speaker 6>You know.

1746
01:41:22.560 --> 01:41:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not some ethics.

1747
01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:25.760
<v Speaker 5>You do not see where you just saw.

1748
01:41:25.920 --> 01:41:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we all saw it live on TV. It's not

1749
01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:30.399
<v Speaker 2>some epics conspiracy, right you know?

1750
01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:34.319
<v Speaker 6>And yeah, hell is the impossibility of reason?

1751
01:41:35.199 --> 01:41:35.399
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1752
01:41:37.239 --> 01:41:39.439
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, Dave, But but to go back to

1753
01:41:39.720 --> 01:41:41.920
<v Speaker 2>this period of time, I mean, are there any before

1754
01:41:42.119 --> 01:41:44.239
<v Speaker 2>we move on and get closer to the present, I mean,

1755
01:41:44.840 --> 01:41:47.079
<v Speaker 2>any experiences that kind of stand out for you that

1756
01:41:47.119 --> 01:41:48.600
<v Speaker 2>you want to talk about before we move on?

1757
01:41:51.720 --> 01:41:54.000
<v Speaker 6>And a horse femail function on a halo drop boy,

1758
01:41:54.079 --> 01:41:59.800
<v Speaker 6>that was something twenty five thousand feet. Yeah, it wasn't combat,

1759
01:41:59.840 --> 01:42:04.520
<v Speaker 6>but you know, training in the in the desert, twenty

1760
01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:08.479
<v Speaker 6>five thousand feet jumping a long rifle. I think I

1761
01:42:08.560 --> 01:42:14.720
<v Speaker 6>had a Norma three three eight Norma mag and flying

1762
01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:17.560
<v Speaker 6>a ruck and I opened. I was sort of head down.

1763
01:42:17.600 --> 01:42:19.960
<v Speaker 6>I think my pilot shot wrapped around my ankle. I

1764
01:42:20.079 --> 01:42:24.880
<v Speaker 6>felt it, and slowly it was like this constriction and

1765
01:42:25.039 --> 01:42:28.399
<v Speaker 6>I've time slows down and I'm like, oh, that's not good.

1766
01:42:28.479 --> 01:42:31.079
<v Speaker 6>I try to wiggle out and it it caught air

1767
01:42:31.119 --> 01:42:35.199
<v Speaker 6>and it my foot kicked the back of my head

1768
01:42:35.279 --> 01:42:39.319
<v Speaker 6>and I don't bend like that as that thing caught air.

1769
01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:42.479
<v Speaker 6>So I thought my leg was just like when you

1770
01:42:42.560 --> 01:42:44.600
<v Speaker 6>take a chicken leg and thigh and you turn it

1771
01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:48.399
<v Speaker 6>and you hear that that's what it but like it

1772
01:42:48.439 --> 01:42:51.359
<v Speaker 6>didn't break, but that's what it felt. Wow. But I'm

1773
01:42:51.399 --> 01:42:54.119
<v Speaker 6>hanging upside down at you know, twenty four thousand feet

1774
01:42:54.159 --> 01:43:00.479
<v Speaker 6>now with a ball of crap. And so I laughed,

1775
01:43:00.880 --> 01:43:05.039
<v Speaker 6>and then I prayed the Peter prayer, God help, and

1776
01:43:05.119 --> 01:43:10.520
<v Speaker 6>I did my cutaway and it went away. Sometimes they

1777
01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:13.399
<v Speaker 6>don't on a horseshoe. Sometimes the reserve it's trapping around.

1778
01:43:13.439 --> 01:43:19.199
<v Speaker 6>People die. Yeah, and that was in nine and I

1779
01:43:19.279 --> 01:43:21.760
<v Speaker 6>jumped one more time after that to get it out

1780
01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:23.800
<v Speaker 6>of my head. And that was when I was like,

1781
01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:25.520
<v Speaker 6>when I was done with the fight.

1782
01:43:25.840 --> 01:43:29.359
<v Speaker 1>What altitude were you out when you got something over

1783
01:43:29.479 --> 01:43:29.840
<v Speaker 1>your head?

1784
01:43:30.960 --> 01:43:31.119
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1785
01:43:31.680 --> 01:43:38.279
<v Speaker 6>Probably seventeen sixteen. I was still high because my my air,

1786
01:43:38.600 --> 01:43:42.800
<v Speaker 6>my mask came off, my nods came off, and as

1787
01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:45.920
<v Speaker 6>when I got situated, when I got my shootout, I

1788
01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:47.760
<v Speaker 6>was high pocks. I you know, that's why we do

1789
01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:50.119
<v Speaker 6>the chamber. I was starting to pass out, so I

1790
01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:54.279
<v Speaker 6>got my airback on and came to The pain was

1791
01:43:54.359 --> 01:43:57.000
<v Speaker 6>so bad. Made a radio call. Hey, I'm okay. I

1792
01:43:57.079 --> 01:43:59.079
<v Speaker 6>heard them talking about me. You know, we got a horseshoe.

1793
01:43:59.119 --> 01:44:05.640
<v Speaker 6>It's Nielsen, Bubba. Just listen to the again. The training.

1794
01:44:05.800 --> 01:44:07.119
<v Speaker 6>You know, you never think it's going to happen to you.

1795
01:44:07.279 --> 01:44:11.079
<v Speaker 4>But David, when you when you were sixteen, you know

1796
01:44:11.199 --> 01:44:13.720
<v Speaker 4>you said, if a war breaks out, I want to go.

1797
01:44:14.399 --> 01:44:16.640
<v Speaker 4>You happen to be in the right place at the

1798
01:44:16.760 --> 01:44:20.119
<v Speaker 4>right time at several points, well, I mean for Panama,

1799
01:44:21.159 --> 01:44:24.640
<v Speaker 4>for Panama, and you know when you were going back

1800
01:44:24.680 --> 01:44:27.079
<v Speaker 4>into the military, did you think that that did you

1801
01:44:27.199 --> 01:44:30.439
<v Speaker 4>think that another like one off like Panama was going

1802
01:44:30.520 --> 01:44:32.720
<v Speaker 4>to happen again. Did you think it'd be a peacetime

1803
01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:35.199
<v Speaker 4>military did you did you even think about it?

1804
01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:39.079
<v Speaker 6>I did. I hoped for it. I hope for war.

1805
01:44:39.119 --> 01:44:42.920
<v Speaker 6>I don't know why. I don't anymore. But it needed it. Yes,

1806
01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:44.640
<v Speaker 6>you know, there's a scripture. There's a scripture that says

1807
01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:47.439
<v Speaker 6>God did this just to teach the Israelites war, like

1808
01:44:48.800 --> 01:44:50.880
<v Speaker 6>the Lord is a warrior. I mean, it's it's all

1809
01:44:50.920 --> 01:44:54.439
<v Speaker 6>over the place. It's an important thing, and it's it's

1810
01:44:54.520 --> 01:44:56.760
<v Speaker 6>just not respected enough like it should be, like it

1811
01:44:56.880 --> 01:44:58.720
<v Speaker 6>has been in history and we don't know. I don't

1812
01:44:58.760 --> 01:44:59.039
<v Speaker 6>know why.

1813
01:45:00.159 --> 01:45:03.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and isn't It's kind of funny because I think

1814
01:45:03.359 --> 01:45:06.560
<v Speaker 4>when when you're like that, it's like chasing. It's this

1815
01:45:06.920 --> 01:45:11.680
<v Speaker 4>escalating chase, right that, Yeah, that you know for somebody

1816
01:45:11.720 --> 01:45:14.199
<v Speaker 4>who grows up, you know, in in a not so

1817
01:45:14.359 --> 01:45:17.560
<v Speaker 4>peaceful household, like getting hit is no big deal. So

1818
01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:23.680
<v Speaker 4>where most gentle you know, gentleman, uh, you know, it's like, oh,

1819
01:45:23.720 --> 01:45:25.399
<v Speaker 4>I wonder how I do if I was ever punched

1820
01:45:25.399 --> 01:45:27.319
<v Speaker 4>in the face, or I wonder how I do.

1821
01:45:27.399 --> 01:45:32.039
<v Speaker 5>It's like you're like, ah, whatever, but then you want

1822
01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:32.800
<v Speaker 5>to be in combat.

1823
01:45:32.840 --> 01:45:34.359
<v Speaker 4>But then you get in combat, and you're like, well,

1824
01:45:34.359 --> 01:45:37.159
<v Speaker 4>I didn't kill anybody, Like, it's not really combat if

1825
01:45:37.199 --> 01:45:39.600
<v Speaker 4>I didn't kill anybody, right, And then you kill somebody

1826
01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:41.439
<v Speaker 4>and then it's like, oh, I never killed anybody with

1827
01:45:41.520 --> 01:45:45.239
<v Speaker 4>a knife, you know, or or whatever it is, Yeah,

1828
01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:46.840
<v Speaker 4>with epistol exactly.

1829
01:45:46.560 --> 01:45:49.359
<v Speaker 5>Whatever it is, like you always find that one thing,

1830
01:45:49.479 --> 01:45:50.920
<v Speaker 5>that that piece that's missing.

1831
01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:54.319
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I didn't get shot. Everybody on my team got shot,

1832
01:45:54.399 --> 01:45:57.560
<v Speaker 6>right multiple times except me? Right? Why?

1833
01:45:58.239 --> 01:45:58.399
<v Speaker 5>Right?

1834
01:45:58.840 --> 01:46:01.399
<v Speaker 6>And then it's crazy like okay, dude, that's you know,

1835
01:46:01.560 --> 01:46:02.000
<v Speaker 6>that's enough.

1836
01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:06.159
<v Speaker 4>But it's absolutely that way, right, these elaborate fantasies of

1837
01:46:06.439 --> 01:46:08.239
<v Speaker 4>how a firefight goes down so that you can like,

1838
01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:11.279
<v Speaker 4>you know, pull off some John wickshit or something, you

1839
01:46:11.359 --> 01:46:12.039
<v Speaker 4>know what I mean.

1840
01:46:12.800 --> 01:46:14.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it is, And then it's the next one and

1841
01:46:14.720 --> 01:46:16.680
<v Speaker 6>the next one. And I remember thinking bank Gazi happened

1842
01:46:16.680 --> 01:46:18.680
<v Speaker 6>and I had taken Arabic for a year and lived

1843
01:46:18.680 --> 01:46:22.479
<v Speaker 6>in Israel. I was off a team, and I'm like, oh,

1844
01:46:22.479 --> 01:46:24.079
<v Speaker 6>I want to go back to a team. And as

1845
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.399
<v Speaker 6>I'm thinking that, I see Brett Favre on the Vikings

1846
01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:30.720
<v Speaker 6>like just get murdered by some d end and it

1847
01:46:30.840 --> 01:46:32.560
<v Speaker 6>was like, Oh, that's gonna be me. If I go back.

1848
01:46:32.600 --> 01:46:39.279
<v Speaker 1>So right, So you had this injury and this horseshoe malfunction.

1849
01:46:39.359 --> 01:46:41.239
<v Speaker 2>I think you said two thousand and nine, but you

1850
01:46:41.359 --> 01:46:43.319
<v Speaker 2>were medically retired in twenty fourteen.

1851
01:46:43.439 --> 01:46:46.119
<v Speaker 1>So tell us about what that next step was. Like

1852
01:46:46.199 --> 01:46:47.479
<v Speaker 1>you said you were off a team.

1853
01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:53.159
<v Speaker 6>That was actually twenty ten. Okay, yep. So then I

1854
01:46:53.319 --> 01:46:58.479
<v Speaker 6>went to like I said, I volunteered for to learn Arabic.

1855
01:46:58.560 --> 01:47:01.760
<v Speaker 6>I had always thought that would be cool. We're in

1856
01:47:02.239 --> 01:47:04.039
<v Speaker 6>We're in k Cook on a rotation. Hey, anybody want

1857
01:47:04.039 --> 01:47:05.560
<v Speaker 6>to do Arabic? That would come up like once a year,

1858
01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:07.920
<v Speaker 6>and I prayed about it and it was like instantly

1859
01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:10.359
<v Speaker 6>I got this, Yes, do it? So I did. And

1860
01:47:11.439 --> 01:47:13.600
<v Speaker 6>again I felt like I was betraying my team, But

1861
01:47:13.680 --> 01:47:17.119
<v Speaker 6>why are they asking if they're not serious? So you know,

1862
01:47:17.239 --> 01:47:20.520
<v Speaker 6>and then I'm I'm in Israel earning Arabic. My whole

1863
01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:23.720
<v Speaker 6>team gets fragged in Afghanistan, of course, and I'm mad

1864
01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:28.319
<v Speaker 6>because I'm not there getting fragged with But it was great.

1865
01:47:28.479 --> 01:47:34.000
<v Speaker 6>I learned that I did that. And then so eleven

1866
01:47:34.560 --> 01:47:38.960
<v Speaker 6>twelve the process started. Then you know, somewhere in there

1867
01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:44.720
<v Speaker 6>the medical retirement because the TBI stuff, I just I

1868
01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:50.000
<v Speaker 6>couldn't keep up so in the PTSD, and so when

1869
01:47:50.000 --> 01:47:52.279
<v Speaker 6>I went and talked to the maddics, the med shed,

1870
01:47:52.359 --> 01:47:57.039
<v Speaker 6>the doctor and Colonel Dyer, the psych there, it was

1871
01:47:57.079 --> 01:47:58.520
<v Speaker 6>almost like they were waiting for me to come to

1872
01:47:58.600 --> 01:48:04.319
<v Speaker 6>them and say I'm done. So h yeah. So there

1873
01:48:04.399 --> 01:48:07.359
<v Speaker 6>was a year or whatever in there is where I

1874
01:48:07.479 --> 01:48:11.680
<v Speaker 6>just worked at the language lab and facilitated others learning

1875
01:48:11.720 --> 01:48:14.239
<v Speaker 6>foreign languages and and.

1876
01:48:14.319 --> 01:48:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Then medically retired. And you know, as we we kind

1877
01:48:17.680 --> 01:48:20.479
<v Speaker 2>of get into your like post service life, I want

1878
01:48:20.520 --> 01:48:22.800
<v Speaker 2>to ask you because as we have this conversation, like

1879
01:48:23.560 --> 01:48:26.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm sensing there there are two different days at this

1880
01:48:26.640 --> 01:48:30.840
<v Speaker 2>time right there is you mentioned praying numerous times. There's

1881
01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Dave who who has religious faith and has a family,

1882
01:48:34.319 --> 01:48:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and then there's Dave that as you said before that

1883
01:48:36.640 --> 01:48:37.039
<v Speaker 2>you want it.

1884
01:48:37.079 --> 01:48:39.880
<v Speaker 1>You try to die And what what what was that

1885
01:48:40.039 --> 01:48:43.520
<v Speaker 1>experience like? And uh, you know post service.

1886
01:48:45.920 --> 01:48:48.880
<v Speaker 6>I went through. I went through two divorces back to back.

1887
01:48:50.039 --> 01:48:53.680
<v Speaker 6>Uh that that was the main thing. I have three kids. Uh,

1888
01:48:54.039 --> 01:48:57.600
<v Speaker 6>it was just too much like day like Dave was saying,

1889
01:48:57.720 --> 01:49:00.720
<v Speaker 6>it's I stacked. I try to stack so much stuff

1890
01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:04.079
<v Speaker 6>and so many cool things as much as I could

1891
01:49:04.159 --> 01:49:07.000
<v Speaker 6>until I couldn't and I hope that's enough, right, I

1892
01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:09.760
<v Speaker 6>hope I did enough to be respected, Like what.

1893
01:49:10.159 --> 01:49:14.840
<v Speaker 1>To respect yourself? Yeah, it's all internal, right, yeah.

1894
01:49:15.720 --> 01:49:21.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, you come to learn later. But so help me out, please, man.

1895
01:49:22.399 --> 01:49:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Of your post service life, and you know some of

1896
01:49:24.399 --> 01:49:25.640
<v Speaker 1>the struggles that you went through.

1897
01:49:28.039 --> 01:49:31.880
<v Speaker 6>Its just in twenty fourteen, this night in November, something

1898
01:49:31.960 --> 01:49:35.159
<v Speaker 6>came over me and my brother had hung himself two

1899
01:49:35.239 --> 01:49:38.640
<v Speaker 6>years prior. And he wasn't supposed to. That was supposed

1900
01:49:38.640 --> 01:49:44.079
<v Speaker 6>to be me. That dies, not my little brother, right it.

1901
01:49:46.359 --> 01:49:51.439
<v Speaker 6>I I wasn't facing it. I didn't. I didn't know

1902
01:49:51.479 --> 01:49:54.479
<v Speaker 6>how to face it. I had two new babies. I man,

1903
01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:57.680
<v Speaker 6>I tried to get I didn't try to. But so

1904
01:49:57.720 --> 01:49:59.560
<v Speaker 6>I had two XY's. They're teaming up on me. Their

1905
01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:01.720
<v Speaker 6>nickname I Rack in Afghanistan because I keep having to

1906
01:50:01.760 --> 01:50:07.800
<v Speaker 6>go back and fight each one. They get like restraining

1907
01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:11.000
<v Speaker 6>order number freaking four, right where the cops come and

1908
01:50:11.079 --> 01:50:13.840
<v Speaker 6>take your guns. The cops know me. I'm like, hey, man,

1909
01:50:13.880 --> 01:50:16.920
<v Speaker 6>can I brush my teeth? Yep? Go ahead? Will you

1910
01:50:17.000 --> 01:50:20.319
<v Speaker 6>cuffed me in front? Sure? Dave like just going through

1911
01:50:20.359 --> 01:50:24.039
<v Speaker 6>the motions. But I was never ever convicted that. They

1912
01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:26.920
<v Speaker 6>were never held up. They were always dropped, so it's

1913
01:50:26.960 --> 01:50:30.359
<v Speaker 6>just harassment. So for some reason in there, man, I

1914
01:50:30.479 --> 01:50:34.800
<v Speaker 6>was like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do this anymore.

1915
01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:37.239
<v Speaker 6>Next time they come to take my guns, I'm gonna

1916
01:50:37.239 --> 01:50:42.359
<v Speaker 6>make a stand. And I was serious about it. It

1917
01:50:42.479 --> 01:50:45.840
<v Speaker 6>happened again, and I said, sir, I'm sorry. You know

1918
01:50:45.880 --> 01:50:48.399
<v Speaker 6>they're at the door of the cops. Five cars out

1919
01:50:48.399 --> 01:50:54.960
<v Speaker 6>there blocking positions. I said, no disrespect, but I'm not

1920
01:50:55.039 --> 01:50:56.800
<v Speaker 6>going to give you my guns. This is stupid, and

1921
01:50:56.840 --> 01:50:58.159
<v Speaker 6>I shut the door. He's like, please don't do this.

1922
01:50:58.279 --> 01:51:02.199
<v Speaker 6>I said, you, please, don't do this. And I'm going

1923
01:51:02.239 --> 01:51:04.800
<v Speaker 6>down into my basement. This is ten years ago. I'm

1924
01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:08.880
<v Speaker 6>going down into my basement, into my alamo to fight

1925
01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:15.199
<v Speaker 6>it out and my ex wife my wife at the time,

1926
01:51:16.119 --> 01:51:18.239
<v Speaker 6>I didn't know how sick this was until my wife,

1927
01:51:18.319 --> 01:51:23.239
<v Speaker 6>now Laura, told me how sick this was. She says, Okay,

1928
01:51:24.880 --> 01:51:27.520
<v Speaker 6>well good luck or you know whatever. She said. But

1929
01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:29.840
<v Speaker 6>she's I'm telling her to leave the house. That she's leaving.

1930
01:51:29.880 --> 01:51:31.239
<v Speaker 6>She's not trying to talk me out of it. Right.

1931
01:51:31.960 --> 01:51:33.560
<v Speaker 6>I didn't even realize it at the time. She wants

1932
01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:37.239
<v Speaker 6>me to die, she wants my so I'm saying god bye,

1933
01:51:37.239 --> 01:51:38.960
<v Speaker 6>to my son's my twin boys, who were born on

1934
01:51:39.039 --> 01:51:41.760
<v Speaker 6>November nineteenth, twenty twelve, ten years to the day after

1935
01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:45.560
<v Speaker 6>an ambush in Afghanistan November nineteenth, two thousand and two. Said, note,

1936
01:51:46.399 --> 01:51:49.399
<v Speaker 6>I'm saying goodbye to Milo, my son, who's five months old.

1937
01:51:50.039 --> 01:51:52.119
<v Speaker 6>And he starts laughing, the first time he's ever laughed

1938
01:51:52.279 --> 01:51:54.920
<v Speaker 6>and in his life, five months old. And it snapped

1939
01:51:54.960 --> 01:51:59.439
<v Speaker 6>me out of whatever dark cloud I was in, and

1940
01:51:59.600 --> 01:52:01.520
<v Speaker 6>I said, what the hell I'm doing.

1941
01:52:02.960 --> 01:52:03.520
<v Speaker 2>This is not.

1942
01:52:05.079 --> 01:52:08.439
<v Speaker 6>Worth it? Take everything except my kids, you know. Yeah,

1943
01:52:08.600 --> 01:52:10.560
<v Speaker 6>I called. I called the cop. I said, hey, man,

1944
01:52:10.640 --> 01:52:13.039
<v Speaker 6>come and get them. They're cleared. All my guns are

1945
01:52:13.079 --> 01:52:16.720
<v Speaker 6>cleared right here in the open. And they were. They

1946
01:52:16.760 --> 01:52:21.079
<v Speaker 6>were mounting up for the attack. Yeah, so that that happened.

1947
01:52:22.119 --> 01:52:27.720
<v Speaker 6>Come on, it's so clearly divine intervention. I tell my boy, like,

1948
01:52:27.800 --> 01:52:29.359
<v Speaker 6>you saved my life. Some day I'll tell you how.

1949
01:52:31.079 --> 01:52:34.199
<v Speaker 6>He's eleven now. But they came, you know. So they

1950
01:52:34.279 --> 01:52:36.600
<v Speaker 6>come back into this guy's looking for a fight. He

1951
01:52:36.640 --> 01:52:38.560
<v Speaker 6>comes up, he's trying to smell alcohol. I'm not drinking,

1952
01:52:39.319 --> 01:52:42.159
<v Speaker 6>get some, you know, and he just takes me to jail.

1953
01:52:42.439 --> 01:52:44.520
<v Speaker 6>They go through their counting every round. It takes about

1954
01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:48.479
<v Speaker 6>six hours, I got reload and stuff. It's just ridiculous.

1955
01:52:49.479 --> 01:52:52.399
<v Speaker 6>Ends up. Man, the guy drives me home. You know,

1956
01:52:52.479 --> 01:52:54.159
<v Speaker 6>I'm sitting in the front seat talking to him. We

1957
01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:57.399
<v Speaker 6>were like friends, if we could be, but you know,

1958
01:52:58.319 --> 01:52:59.600
<v Speaker 6>we're just we talked it out of me and the

1959
01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:02.359
<v Speaker 6>cop and that was the last time that happened. But

1960
01:53:02.439 --> 01:53:06.840
<v Speaker 6>that was so close, you know, if you let that. Oh,

1961
01:53:06.920 --> 01:53:09.399
<v Speaker 6>it's so hard. There's a we've got to have our

1962
01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:13.079
<v Speaker 6>right good probably bad part. You guys know what I'm saying. Man,

1963
01:53:13.159 --> 01:53:14.279
<v Speaker 6>It's it's a fine line.

1964
01:53:14.479 --> 01:53:18.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it's it's whether it's a real line or not.

1965
01:53:19.000 --> 01:53:21.239
<v Speaker 4>It's a line that you feel will break you.

1966
01:53:22.359 --> 01:53:23.319
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, you know.

1967
01:53:25.239 --> 01:53:28.800
<v Speaker 4>And you know, and I'm curious, you know, I sort

1968
01:53:28.840 --> 01:53:34.159
<v Speaker 4>of growing up in an abusive environment. You know, until

1969
01:53:34.239 --> 01:53:38.720
<v Speaker 4>we reach some level of self enlightenment and recognize our patterns,

1970
01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:45.119
<v Speaker 4>we often seek out relationships that and people who repeat

1971
01:53:45.199 --> 01:53:48.680
<v Speaker 4>that or or whatever. And it sounds like these women

1972
01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:51.600
<v Speaker 4>were very skilled or very good at that.

1973
01:53:53.439 --> 01:53:58.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, exactly. I mean, And who's the last person we

1974
01:53:58.159 --> 01:54:00.760
<v Speaker 6>look at to be at fault. Like, you know, my

1975
01:54:00.840 --> 01:54:02.239
<v Speaker 6>friend told me, hey, you got to be at least

1976
01:54:02.239 --> 01:54:05.319
<v Speaker 6>fifty percent of the problem. Yeah, Like I'll admit that,

1977
01:54:05.439 --> 01:54:08.039
<v Speaker 6>but not fifty one. Oh yeah, I'm probably seventy five percent.

1978
01:54:08.079 --> 01:54:11.800
<v Speaker 6>I don't know who cares. Yeah, like, yeah, let's stop

1979
01:54:11.960 --> 01:54:14.800
<v Speaker 6>finding these patterns.

1980
01:54:15.119 --> 01:54:16.560
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, essent.

1981
01:54:16.880 --> 01:54:19.760
<v Speaker 2>What was I mean you walked right up to the precipice.

1982
01:54:20.800 --> 01:54:23.319
<v Speaker 2>What was your path to recovery after that moment?

1983
01:54:25.520 --> 01:54:28.279
<v Speaker 6>So it was shortly after that was the night of

1984
01:54:28.520 --> 01:54:31.279
<v Speaker 6>like I'm gonna die. I don't know how, but I'm

1985
01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:35.199
<v Speaker 6>dying tonight. And then it was so I think like

1986
01:54:35.279 --> 01:54:37.600
<v Speaker 6>if I was to talk tell somebody about I'd say,

1987
01:54:37.720 --> 01:54:42.039
<v Speaker 6>just walk it out, move, move your ass, move your faith,

1988
01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:45.840
<v Speaker 6>whatever it is in there, move it, play it out.

1989
01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:47.960
<v Speaker 6>I'm just dealing with this with my nineteen year old daughter.

1990
01:54:48.800 --> 01:54:50.560
<v Speaker 6>She's like, I don't have a purpose of why am

1991
01:54:50.600 --> 01:54:55.079
<v Speaker 6>I alive? She had a suicide attempt last year. My

1992
01:54:55.800 --> 01:55:00.119
<v Speaker 6>baby girl is now nineteen and with slit wrist. And

1993
01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:02.560
<v Speaker 6>I was like, Cam, set a goal. I don't care

1994
01:55:02.600 --> 01:55:05.159
<v Speaker 6>if it's crazy, and see if you can do it,

1995
01:55:06.159 --> 01:55:09.000
<v Speaker 6>do everything you can. If you can't, then you know, okay,

1996
01:55:09.039 --> 01:55:12.760
<v Speaker 6>life's not worth living. And she said, okay, So yeah,

1997
01:55:12.760 --> 01:55:14.880
<v Speaker 6>it's about walking it out and moving it. Face the

1998
01:55:14.960 --> 01:55:18.079
<v Speaker 6>tank man. One time we were on patrol and we well,

1999
01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:20.279
<v Speaker 6>we're going on a hit and there's an N one

2000
01:55:20.319 --> 01:55:22.319
<v Speaker 6>tank in this field, like there wasn't supposed to be there,

2001
01:55:24.079 --> 01:55:26.359
<v Speaker 6>and we couldn't reach him on the radio. So like, man,

2002
01:55:26.560 --> 01:55:28.640
<v Speaker 6>if we just walk by and he wakes up, he's

2003
01:55:28.680 --> 01:55:31.720
<v Speaker 6>gonna shoot us. So that's my saying now, like face

2004
01:55:31.760 --> 01:55:34.359
<v Speaker 6>the tank, figure it out. I end up knocking on

2005
01:55:34.439 --> 01:55:38.640
<v Speaker 6>this tank, you know, like, what are you guys doing here?

2006
01:55:38.720 --> 01:55:41.439
<v Speaker 6>We almost shot you? Like okay, and then he's now

2007
01:55:41.479 --> 01:55:45.840
<v Speaker 6>he's pulling overwatch for us, So face the Tankah.

2008
01:55:47.640 --> 01:55:50.960
<v Speaker 2>And You've gotten involved in a bunch of other things

2009
01:55:51.039 --> 01:55:54.560
<v Speaker 2>since then, I mean, coaching high school football. Some it

2010
01:55:54.640 --> 01:55:58.600
<v Speaker 2>sounds like, you know, missionary work almost and see and

2011
01:55:59.159 --> 01:56:01.720
<v Speaker 2>even document you know, some Hollywood stuff.

2012
01:56:01.760 --> 01:56:07.600
<v Speaker 6>Also, Yeah, people ask me, I'll be like, do you

2013
01:56:07.680 --> 01:56:11.560
<v Speaker 6>have a job, Not officially, but I'm busy as hell

2014
01:56:11.920 --> 01:56:14.199
<v Speaker 6>and my life is great. I am so happy, guys,

2015
01:56:16.439 --> 01:56:20.439
<v Speaker 6>you know, joyful, just things are. Things are good now.

2016
01:56:20.520 --> 01:56:24.199
<v Speaker 6>Because I admitted that I couldn't fix myself, that I

2017
01:56:24.319 --> 01:56:27.560
<v Speaker 6>needed help, that I got to talk, somebody asked me

2018
01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:34.239
<v Speaker 6>for help or anything, yep. And and man, I look

2019
01:56:34.279 --> 01:56:36.159
<v Speaker 6>back and it's like people were so grateful to me

2020
01:56:36.159 --> 01:56:38.600
<v Speaker 6>along the way. I did so many a lot of

2021
01:56:38.640 --> 01:56:41.680
<v Speaker 6>stupid things, just hurtful things, you know, things that were

2022
01:56:41.720 --> 01:56:50.239
<v Speaker 6>done to me. And it's all about relationships. So yeah,

2023
01:56:50.720 --> 01:56:54.680
<v Speaker 6>sire Leone is a big one. We a friend of

2024
01:56:54.720 --> 01:56:58.239
<v Speaker 6>mine just he's a he's a pastor and he it

2025
01:56:58.359 --> 01:57:00.840
<v Speaker 6>happened through him. And then I'm a theologie like I am.

2026
01:57:00.960 --> 01:57:04.560
<v Speaker 6>I went to seminary not to preach. I just love

2027
01:57:04.960 --> 01:57:09.399
<v Speaker 6>studying and you know, learning the why of things. So

2028
01:57:09.640 --> 01:57:12.840
<v Speaker 6>I'm helping my friend out. He had to leave. So

2029
01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:15.000
<v Speaker 6>then I just stayed on board and I'm doing these

2030
01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:18.880
<v Speaker 6>Bible studies online with this church in siur Leone and

2031
01:57:19.079 --> 01:57:21.800
<v Speaker 6>sending them a little, a very little bit of amount

2032
01:57:21.840 --> 01:57:27.199
<v Speaker 6>of money every week. That has become an orphanage. The

2033
01:57:27.319 --> 01:57:31.399
<v Speaker 6>roof just went up. It's and when the guy told me,

2034
01:57:31.479 --> 01:57:34.239
<v Speaker 6>let's let's do this orphanage, I'm like, I said, okay,

2035
01:57:34.560 --> 01:57:36.760
<v Speaker 6>Like it's not going to happen. But it's been two

2036
01:57:36.840 --> 01:57:39.279
<v Speaker 6>years of this money trickling, and that goes a long

2037
01:57:39.319 --> 01:57:39.760
<v Speaker 6>way over there.

2038
01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:43.359
<v Speaker 1>We have an orphanage that your impossible goal that you set.

2039
01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:49.880
<v Speaker 6>Right it happens. It's like, oh wow, that's the biggest

2040
01:57:49.960 --> 01:57:51.800
<v Speaker 6>that's the coolest thing I've ever been able to be

2041
01:57:51.880 --> 01:57:56.000
<v Speaker 6>a part of. Then all this other stuff because you

2042
01:57:56.079 --> 01:57:58.000
<v Speaker 6>see a kid hurting, man, it's I can't handle that.

2043
01:57:58.239 --> 01:58:02.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, David, If anybody is listening and they might want

2044
01:58:02.880 --> 01:58:05.920
<v Speaker 4>to help out with this church or this orphan Asian

2045
01:58:06.000 --> 01:58:08.680
<v Speaker 4>serial leone is, is there a way that they can

2046
01:58:08.720 --> 01:58:08.920
<v Speaker 4>do that?

2047
01:58:10.079 --> 01:58:16.880
<v Speaker 6>Thank you? Yeah? Probably Christology podcast on Instagram to start,

2048
01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:20.479
<v Speaker 6>and then I'll send them right to Pastor Hamilberg, who's

2049
01:58:20.479 --> 01:58:22.319
<v Speaker 6>the pastor there, and they'll they'll do it direct. That's

2050
01:58:22.399 --> 01:58:24.880
<v Speaker 6>not this. I don't have a Bible one C. Three.

2051
01:58:25.720 --> 01:58:27.479
<v Speaker 6>I just I don't have the capacity right now for

2052
01:58:28.039 --> 01:58:30.520
<v Speaker 6>that the business side of it. But if they want

2053
01:58:30.520 --> 01:58:32.359
<v Speaker 6>to give, absolutely that would be awesome. I'll put them

2054
01:58:32.439 --> 01:58:34.239
<v Speaker 6>right in touch with the pastor and it's easy.

2055
01:58:34.640 --> 01:58:35.840
<v Speaker 5>So it's Christology.

2056
01:58:37.359 --> 01:58:39.319
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, the Christology podcast.

2057
01:58:39.439 --> 01:58:41.479
<v Speaker 5>Christology podcast on Instagra.

2058
01:58:42.560 --> 01:58:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Want to tell us a bit about what your podcast

2059
01:58:44.680 --> 01:58:44.960
<v Speaker 1>is about.

2060
01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:50.880
<v Speaker 6>Also, we've done forty episodes maybe Christology the Study of Jesus?

2061
01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:53.960
<v Speaker 6>Who is He? Who he is? I in seminary it

2062
01:58:54.039 --> 01:58:55.840
<v Speaker 6>kept coming that word kept popping up. I was like,

2063
01:58:55.920 --> 01:58:58.319
<v Speaker 6>that's a silly word or what does it mean? Like

2064
01:58:58.520 --> 01:59:01.840
<v Speaker 6>you don't see it anywhere. What's the same as theology

2065
01:59:01.880 --> 01:59:04.279
<v Speaker 6>THEO is God, the study of God, Christ, the study

2066
01:59:04.359 --> 01:59:08.520
<v Speaker 6>of Christ. So it always came down to, like Paul

2067
01:59:09.039 --> 01:59:11.600
<v Speaker 6>or Peter has a high Christology and these people have

2068
01:59:11.640 --> 01:59:15.399
<v Speaker 6>a low Christology. It's who he is. I've boiled everything down,

2069
01:59:15.640 --> 01:59:19.199
<v Speaker 6>all my experiences in life to that question. Everybody's answering

2070
01:59:19.279 --> 01:59:21.560
<v Speaker 6>that question in one way or another with how we

2071
01:59:21.680 --> 01:59:25.039
<v Speaker 6>live and die of is he he says he is?

2072
01:59:25.359 --> 01:59:27.920
<v Speaker 6>And it's not about Hey, check it out. I'm gonna

2073
01:59:27.920 --> 01:59:30.640
<v Speaker 6>tell you who he is. We can have any bands,

2074
01:59:30.720 --> 01:59:36.640
<v Speaker 6>so we can talk about football or anything, because he

2075
01:59:36.760 --> 01:59:39.239
<v Speaker 6>made it all, he said, he says in the words.

2076
01:59:39.279 --> 01:59:42.800
<v Speaker 6>So that's it, I mean. And this is a great

2077
01:59:43.359 --> 01:59:49.239
<v Speaker 6>platform and way to I guess get people to look

2078
01:59:49.279 --> 01:59:52.439
<v Speaker 6>and see. So, yeah, it's a lot of work, man,

2079
01:59:52.520 --> 01:59:52.880
<v Speaker 6>it's hard.

2080
01:59:53.359 --> 01:59:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

2081
01:59:55.720 --> 01:59:59.840
<v Speaker 2>And you also got involved in the war Dog documentary.

2082
02:00:00.960 --> 02:00:03.079
<v Speaker 2>You know, you tell us a little bit about these

2083
02:00:03.199 --> 02:00:05.399
<v Speaker 2>projects that you got pulled into, and you know it

2084
02:00:05.439 --> 02:00:09.119
<v Speaker 2>sounds like you really went your professional experiences to them.

2085
02:00:10.359 --> 02:00:15.840
<v Speaker 6>That was like a gift. Hbo Channing Tatum produced and

2086
02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:18.920
<v Speaker 6>funded this documentary called war Dog A Soldier's Best Friend.

2087
02:00:19.399 --> 02:00:21.000
<v Speaker 6>When it started, it was like this is going to

2088
02:00:21.039 --> 02:00:25.000
<v Speaker 6>be maybe, you know, win an award. Like we had

2089
02:00:25.359 --> 02:00:30.319
<v Speaker 6>director Deb Scranton. She'd done this really good stuff in

2090
02:00:30.399 --> 02:00:32.800
<v Speaker 6>the past, and you know, we had this momentum and

2091
02:00:32.880 --> 02:00:35.079
<v Speaker 6>the time it took to do that. It went from

2092
02:00:35.199 --> 02:00:39.840
<v Speaker 6>like yellow ribbons and thank Troops to you know, we

2093
02:00:40.000 --> 02:00:44.720
<v Speaker 6>suck in those few years from I don't know, fifteen

2094
02:00:44.800 --> 02:00:52.319
<v Speaker 6>to twenty eighteen. But it was incredible to do. It

2095
02:00:52.439 --> 02:00:55.119
<v Speaker 6>was hard, but told my Pepper story and there's a

2096
02:00:55.159 --> 02:00:59.159
<v Speaker 6>couple other guys on there telling stories about dogs. And

2097
02:01:01.079 --> 02:01:05.840
<v Speaker 6>we go to Hollywood and meet Channing Tatum and like

2098
02:01:06.000 --> 02:01:08.920
<v Speaker 6>magic Mike like stay away from my wife, dude, like

2099
02:01:11.880 --> 02:01:14.439
<v Speaker 6>but it was. It was so cool. And then while

2100
02:01:14.439 --> 02:01:17.359
<v Speaker 6>we're there, there's these a couple guys, the dog handler

2101
02:01:17.479 --> 02:01:23.199
<v Speaker 6>from the TV show Seal Team, Justin Melnick, he's there.

2102
02:01:23.239 --> 02:01:24.199
<v Speaker 6>He's like, Hey, do you want to come out to

2103
02:01:24.239 --> 02:01:26.560
<v Speaker 6>the set tomorrow And I'm like, nope, nope, nope, I

2104
02:01:26.600 --> 02:01:28.159
<v Speaker 6>don't want to do anything. I want to go home.

2105
02:01:29.279 --> 02:01:32.079
<v Speaker 6>And we talked a little more, and so we went

2106
02:01:32.119 --> 02:01:34.520
<v Speaker 6>out to the set Laura and I my wife, and

2107
02:01:34.680 --> 02:01:37.920
<v Speaker 6>watched him film and then they said, like you want

2108
02:01:37.960 --> 02:01:42.119
<v Speaker 6>to be extras? I said, okay, So we came back

2109
02:01:42.199 --> 02:01:44.359
<v Speaker 6>for this, but I'm a dog handler now on a

2110
02:01:44.399 --> 02:01:48.399
<v Speaker 6>TV show. In episode thirteen of season one of Seal Team,

2111
02:01:50.119 --> 02:01:52.000
<v Speaker 6>I'm a dog handler that gets killed. I love it.

2112
02:01:53.119 --> 02:01:55.039
<v Speaker 6>It's just my night. I don't have any lines. I'm

2113
02:01:55.079 --> 02:01:57.720
<v Speaker 6>just walking into the team. We go into a building. Boom.

2114
02:01:57.880 --> 02:02:01.199
<v Speaker 6>You know. It was so fun to do. And I

2115
02:02:01.239 --> 02:02:06.319
<v Speaker 6>got paid four times the amount to act like what

2116
02:02:06.399 --> 02:02:07.399
<v Speaker 6>I used to do for real.

2117
02:02:07.800 --> 02:02:08.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

2118
02:02:08.119 --> 02:02:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, and you found it fun to play out like

2119
02:02:10.199 --> 02:02:13.079
<v Speaker 2>the fantasy where the stakes are so much low lower

2120
02:02:13.279 --> 02:02:15.319
<v Speaker 2>than they were overseas.

2121
02:02:16.239 --> 02:02:20.479
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, all that. It was hilarious. It was fun. And

2122
02:02:20.600 --> 02:02:27.119
<v Speaker 6>then so then this is worth talking about. Sure, Chris

2123
02:02:27.199 --> 02:02:30.039
<v Speaker 6>Chulac was the director. I think he's gone out from

2124
02:02:30.079 --> 02:02:32.800
<v Speaker 6>that show. But what an awesome guy. I met these

2125
02:02:32.840 --> 02:02:34.359
<v Speaker 6>people in Hollywood. I thought it was going to be

2126
02:02:34.439 --> 02:02:40.479
<v Speaker 6>what you hear about man. Without that, like my experience

2127
02:02:40.520 --> 02:02:42.479
<v Speaker 6>from the VA and all that stuff wouldn't have been

2128
02:02:42.520 --> 02:02:48.159
<v Speaker 6>complete because they were like just real people. And can

2129
02:02:48.239 --> 02:02:49.800
<v Speaker 6>you watch this and see what you think and how

2130
02:02:49.840 --> 02:02:53.479
<v Speaker 6>I'm doing this and give some feedback. And I'm watching

2131
02:02:53.520 --> 02:02:56.760
<v Speaker 6>this scene where this RPG round comes up a string.

2132
02:02:56.840 --> 02:03:00.520
<v Speaker 6>You know they're making a TV show, right, But something

2133
02:03:01.000 --> 02:03:05.800
<v Speaker 6>freaking like the only like PTSD like movie type thing

2134
02:03:05.840 --> 02:03:06.520
<v Speaker 6>I've ever had.

2135
02:03:08.399 --> 02:03:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I was like.

2136
02:03:10.439 --> 02:03:13.079
<v Speaker 6>Something triggered and I and I had to walk away,

2137
02:03:13.279 --> 02:03:15.720
<v Speaker 6>and I was gonna start crying and I was gonna

2138
02:03:15.720 --> 02:03:18.520
<v Speaker 6>be embarrassed, but I had been to the VA, so

2139
02:03:18.560 --> 02:03:21.199
<v Speaker 6>I knew what to do. I turned back around and

2140
02:03:21.319 --> 02:03:23.000
<v Speaker 6>I talked to my wife, and then I talked to

2141
02:03:23.079 --> 02:03:25.720
<v Speaker 6>the director, Chris Julac. I was like, he said, was

2142
02:03:25.760 --> 02:03:27.279
<v Speaker 6>that was that pretty good? I said, yeah, that was

2143
02:03:27.319 --> 02:03:29.359
<v Speaker 6>really that was really freaking. That was really race.

2144
02:03:31.079 --> 02:03:32.039
<v Speaker 1>That was pretty on target.

2145
02:03:32.199 --> 02:03:36.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yep, yeah, keep that up. That was good. But

2146
02:03:37.000 --> 02:03:38.640
<v Speaker 6>you know, I was able to stay in it. And

2147
02:03:38.760 --> 02:03:41.479
<v Speaker 6>that was like the first sort of win with something

2148
02:03:41.600 --> 02:03:44.319
<v Speaker 6>like that, and then it's happened many more times and

2149
02:03:44.479 --> 02:03:48.319
<v Speaker 6>now it's a breeze right now. Life is like like

2150
02:03:48.439 --> 02:03:53.880
<v Speaker 6>it should be. Hollywood was awesome. Went out to Justin's

2151
02:03:53.880 --> 02:03:56.319
<v Speaker 6>house last year and rode horses with his wife. Me

2152
02:03:56.319 --> 02:03:57.920
<v Speaker 6>and my wife and daughter went out there, and just

2153
02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:00.439
<v Speaker 6>the dog handler from Seal Team awesome.

2154
02:04:01.239 --> 02:04:02.039
<v Speaker 1>That's super cool.

2155
02:04:02.359 --> 02:04:05.359
<v Speaker 7>And you said that now you're married to a woman.

2156
02:04:05.439 --> 02:04:07.279
<v Speaker 7>Did you say she was a veterinarian in the unit,

2157
02:04:08.039 --> 02:04:10.800
<v Speaker 7>Laura Miller. She was the vet tech vet tech. Yeah,

2158
02:04:10.840 --> 02:04:15.399
<v Speaker 7>so the enlisted help her to the vet Big Army. Well,

2159
02:04:15.479 --> 02:04:17.359
<v Speaker 7>she was in the Army twenty six years. She retired

2160
02:04:17.520 --> 02:04:20.279
<v Speaker 7>right after me. We were friends when I was in

2161
02:04:20.399 --> 02:04:23.279
<v Speaker 7>she was the vet tech and yeah, so she worked

2162
02:04:23.319 --> 02:04:26.600
<v Speaker 7>with Pepper and all the dogs at the unit nine

2163
02:04:26.640 --> 02:04:28.359
<v Speaker 7>years about the same time for him, I was.

2164
02:04:28.920 --> 02:04:32.720
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and we both found ourselves single and now we

2165
02:04:32.840 --> 02:04:37.319
<v Speaker 6>are spend every second together. That's awesome, fantastic, that's great. Yeah.

2166
02:04:37.880 --> 02:04:39.920
<v Speaker 1>And so where are you at today?

2167
02:04:40.159 --> 02:04:42.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you've had this like incredible journey, I mean,

2168
02:04:42.880 --> 02:04:46.720
<v Speaker 2>walking almost up to the brink. I was kind of

2169
02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:50.479
<v Speaker 2>curious about, like where you're at today, and you know,

2170
02:04:50.560 --> 02:04:53.720
<v Speaker 2>you've shared some really good experiences with us. I mean,

2171
02:04:53.760 --> 02:04:56.079
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just interested in, you know, I guess if

2172
02:04:56.119 --> 02:04:59.119
<v Speaker 2>we were to like aar this entire conversation, I mean,

2173
02:05:00.199 --> 02:05:01.359
<v Speaker 2>lessons learned, right.

2174
02:05:02.960 --> 02:05:05.600
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I appreciate that, Jack. You know what, It's still

2175
02:05:06.159 --> 02:05:09.520
<v Speaker 6>just as hard, Yeah, but I don't take it as hard,

2176
02:05:11.479 --> 02:05:16.279
<v Speaker 6>Like I still am struggling presently with what do I

2177
02:05:16.359 --> 02:05:18.079
<v Speaker 6>need to be doing? Do I do I write that book?

2178
02:05:18.119 --> 02:05:24.720
<v Speaker 6>I've started a book forty forty times and the title

2179
02:05:24.800 --> 02:05:27.000
<v Speaker 6>changes and I can't organize it and like blah blah blah,

2180
02:05:27.039 --> 02:05:28.560
<v Speaker 6>but I gotta get this out, you know. So it's

2181
02:05:28.600 --> 02:05:32.359
<v Speaker 6>like and if I do or don't, I'm okay with it.

2182
02:05:32.520 --> 02:05:35.199
<v Speaker 6>But then it's like, man, am I being lazy? Am

2183
02:05:35.199 --> 02:05:37.560
<v Speaker 6>I not? And then you know, people like, well, you

2184
02:05:37.640 --> 02:05:40.800
<v Speaker 6>got your missionary work on a podcast and your football coach.

2185
02:05:40.880 --> 02:05:44.039
<v Speaker 6>It's just like, okay, you know, it's kind of self.

2186
02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Imposed your defense, Dave. I mean, writing and rewriting a

2187
02:05:47.000 --> 02:05:48.640
<v Speaker 1>book forty times is quite normal.

2188
02:05:50.720 --> 02:05:54.399
<v Speaker 6>So I've heard yeah, good, I don't even know that,

2189
02:05:54.600 --> 02:05:56.439
<v Speaker 6>you know, it needs to be told this is this

2190
02:05:56.600 --> 02:05:59.119
<v Speaker 6>is good. It's not you know, the cliche is true.

2191
02:05:59.479 --> 02:06:02.520
<v Speaker 6>On my I've had like I got this list like

2192
02:06:03.520 --> 02:06:04.880
<v Speaker 6>it was one a week when I was doing a

2193
02:06:04.920 --> 02:06:08.800
<v Speaker 6>podcast a week of usually like a guy who was

2194
02:06:08.840 --> 02:06:12.319
<v Speaker 6>in the Rangers in the nineties or two thousands for

2195
02:06:12.439 --> 02:06:16.159
<v Speaker 6>four years and then got out in those Man, that's hard. Uh,

2196
02:06:17.920 --> 02:06:21.640
<v Speaker 6>it's so hard, and they'd be like, you know, I

2197
02:06:21.720 --> 02:06:23.600
<v Speaker 6>heard something you said, and man, I appreciate I was.

2198
02:06:23.720 --> 02:06:25.439
<v Speaker 6>I was about to just totally give up, but I'm

2199
02:06:25.439 --> 02:06:28.079
<v Speaker 6>gonna try again. It's like, oh man, that's cool, that's cool.

2200
02:06:28.439 --> 02:06:33.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean and it's it's wild too,

2201
02:06:35.239 --> 02:06:38.439
<v Speaker 4>you know, because like with the post traumatic stress, with

2202
02:06:38.560 --> 02:06:41.239
<v Speaker 4>the TV I S with the sort of the uh

2203
02:06:41.680 --> 02:06:47.800
<v Speaker 4>what the operator syndrome, and then the OP and then

2204
02:06:47.920 --> 02:06:51.560
<v Speaker 4>and then also the I was doing this and now

2205
02:06:52.319 --> 02:06:57.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm doing something like this, and you know, and a

2206
02:06:57.880 --> 02:07:00.319
<v Speaker 4>lot of guys, I mean girls, a lot of people

2207
02:07:01.119 --> 02:07:05.520
<v Speaker 4>uh from that life find them they find their dark

2208
02:07:05.600 --> 02:07:08.479
<v Speaker 4>night of the soul, right they they they find that

2209
02:07:09.439 --> 02:07:15.600
<v Speaker 4>and and it's not this chronic situation that they have

2210
02:07:15.720 --> 02:07:19.439
<v Speaker 4>to deal with their entire life. It's it's they have

2211
02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:24.520
<v Speaker 4>to get over that bump. And and sometimes a call

2212
02:07:24.600 --> 02:07:28.159
<v Speaker 4>from a buddy, sometimes hearing somebody like yourself talk about

2213
02:07:28.199 --> 02:07:34.239
<v Speaker 4>it sometimes that gets them past the night that that

2214
02:07:34.680 --> 02:07:37.479
<v Speaker 4>that may have changed everything.

2215
02:07:38.239 --> 02:07:44.199
<v Speaker 6>Wow. Sure, yeah, man, that's it. That's deep. And there's

2216
02:07:44.199 --> 02:07:46.439
<v Speaker 6>a name. I think I've heard that, but I didn't

2217
02:07:46.439 --> 02:07:48.560
<v Speaker 6>know people talk about operator syndrome.

2218
02:07:48.600 --> 02:07:49.600
<v Speaker 5>Operator syndrome. Yeah.

2219
02:07:52.039 --> 02:07:56.279
<v Speaker 6>Wow. And and you've you guys are saying that the

2220
02:07:56.399 --> 02:07:59.079
<v Speaker 6>thing is to get through to that and through that.

2221
02:07:59.840 --> 02:08:00.920
<v Speaker 5>I I mean hopefully not to it.

2222
02:08:00.960 --> 02:08:03.800
<v Speaker 4>Hopefully Like people you know, deal with it, you know,

2223
02:08:03.880 --> 02:08:06.000
<v Speaker 4>they talk to you know, they they have a good

2224
02:08:06.039 --> 02:08:09.920
<v Speaker 4>mental health regiment. Most people in our field. Don't like

2225
02:08:10.119 --> 02:08:13.079
<v Speaker 4>we we we've always been self sufficient. How we made

2226
02:08:13.119 --> 02:08:14.399
<v Speaker 4>it through, what we made it through.

2227
02:08:14.920 --> 02:08:17.720
<v Speaker 5>You know, we don't. We don't focus on our problems, right,

2228
02:08:17.840 --> 02:08:20.640
<v Speaker 5>Our problems are I don't really care. I don't really care.

2229
02:08:20.720 --> 02:08:22.720
<v Speaker 5>I don't really care. But enough I don't really care.

2230
02:08:22.840 --> 02:08:25.039
<v Speaker 5>Is that it all starts to build up after a while.

2231
02:08:25.800 --> 02:08:27.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah yeah, and then when and then one day you

2232
02:08:28.039 --> 02:08:29.279
<v Speaker 5>do care and you care a lot.

2233
02:08:30.520 --> 02:08:38.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah yeah. So it's face the tank every day, no

2234
02:08:38.840 --> 02:08:40.880
<v Speaker 6>less than one bold move is kind of my motto

2235
02:08:41.000 --> 02:08:45.680
<v Speaker 6>because I've been slowsful, lazy or lately and uh lazy

2236
02:08:46.399 --> 02:08:51.239
<v Speaker 6>lately uh but like almost freaking had a damn heart attack,

2237
02:08:51.319 --> 02:08:52.479
<v Speaker 6>like I will go up with chess bains and went

2238
02:08:52.520 --> 02:08:57.680
<v Speaker 6>to the hospital. So like it's really hard, people say this,

2239
02:08:57.840 --> 02:09:02.279
<v Speaker 6>but to learn to relax, Yes, yeah, yeah, isn't it?

2240
02:09:02.680 --> 02:09:04.359
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, what's up with that?

2241
02:09:05.239 --> 02:09:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's keep it keeping up that high adrenaline rate,

2242
02:09:08.600 --> 02:09:11.239
<v Speaker 2>that's what That's what that is, you know, And and

2243
02:09:11.359 --> 02:09:14.439
<v Speaker 2>sitting still and doing nothing is just like so empathetical

2244
02:09:14.600 --> 02:09:17.520
<v Speaker 2>to you know, who we it's really who we are

2245
02:09:17.600 --> 02:09:19.479
<v Speaker 2>as people, right, because like who you were as a

2246
02:09:19.560 --> 02:09:23.159
<v Speaker 2>person is what led you to this profession.

2247
02:09:22.760 --> 02:09:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Not the other way around.

2248
02:09:25.760 --> 02:09:28.680
<v Speaker 4>A really a really good shrink at the VA told me.

2249
02:09:28.920 --> 02:09:32.039
<v Speaker 4>She said, it's its own type of post traumatic stress.

2250
02:09:32.119 --> 02:09:35.079
<v Speaker 4>It's like this low grade post traumatic stress that just

2251
02:09:35.600 --> 02:09:36.479
<v Speaker 4>taxes the body.

2252
02:09:36.840 --> 02:09:39.680
<v Speaker 5>She goes, because where you guys come.

2253
02:09:39.600 --> 02:09:42.239
<v Speaker 4>From and then where you're at now, it's like you

2254
02:09:42.359 --> 02:09:45.279
<v Speaker 4>have one foot on the gas and one foot on

2255
02:09:45.359 --> 02:09:48.159
<v Speaker 4>the brake all the time, and that's how you're driving

2256
02:09:48.199 --> 02:09:48.720
<v Speaker 4>through life.

2257
02:09:49.000 --> 02:10:00.720
<v Speaker 6>Oh my god. Yeah, mmm, well.

2258
02:10:02.119 --> 02:10:08.840
<v Speaker 4>We have some questions, right, ok, we have some viewer questions. Uh, Bjorn,

2259
02:10:08.960 --> 02:10:11.880
<v Speaker 4>thank you very much. What was your experience like with

2260
02:10:12.079 --> 02:10:15.439
<v Speaker 4>other Tier one units like dev gru and twenty fourth

2261
02:10:15.560 --> 02:10:19.600
<v Speaker 4>sts and FBI hurt Which team works best with unit?

2262
02:10:21.800 --> 02:10:25.119
<v Speaker 6>So it's always kind of a it's kind of like

2263
02:10:25.159 --> 02:10:28.560
<v Speaker 6>two dogs coming together. Really is just like you're really

2264
02:10:29.319 --> 02:10:32.479
<v Speaker 6>I mean, honestly, you're ready to fight, That's what I'm thinking.

2265
02:10:32.520 --> 02:10:35.920
<v Speaker 6>It's just like you're just you're bowed up because it's

2266
02:10:37.000 --> 02:10:38.600
<v Speaker 6>good on good right, that's what we call it on

2267
02:10:38.640 --> 02:10:42.159
<v Speaker 6>the football field, ones on ones, and you end up

2268
02:10:42.159 --> 02:10:44.439
<v Speaker 6>being friends. But it's like, in the back of your mind,

2269
02:10:44.840 --> 02:10:46.920
<v Speaker 6>how am I going to take this guy? Right? Right?

2270
02:10:48.159 --> 02:10:50.039
<v Speaker 5>Be kind me courteous, but have a plan to kill

2271
02:10:50.079 --> 02:10:50.800
<v Speaker 5>everybody you meet.

2272
02:10:51.319 --> 02:10:56.239
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's true, it really is. But I always love

2273
02:10:56.279 --> 02:10:59.039
<v Speaker 6>the Seals really. I mean a couple of incidences, but

2274
02:10:59.239 --> 02:11:03.319
<v Speaker 6>you know, I did stupid things too. I don't know, man,

2275
02:11:03.359 --> 02:11:06.760
<v Speaker 6>I always thought they were great and laid back, which

2276
02:11:07.079 --> 02:11:10.000
<v Speaker 6>is how I am like, I'm should have been s

2277
02:11:10.119 --> 02:11:16.880
<v Speaker 6>F instead of ranger. FBI was like, oh, that was

2278
02:11:16.960 --> 02:11:20.199
<v Speaker 6>a tough one, especially when they were with us. I'm like, what,

2279
02:11:22.640 --> 02:11:24.399
<v Speaker 6>we just waited him out, man. We just like had

2280
02:11:24.399 --> 02:11:26.560
<v Speaker 6>a little talk with him, you know about like, hey,

2281
02:11:26.600 --> 02:11:28.000
<v Speaker 6>we're gonna go do this. What do you think about that?

2282
02:11:28.880 --> 02:11:30.439
<v Speaker 6>One guy was like cool, and one guy was like,

2283
02:11:31.560 --> 02:11:33.359
<v Speaker 6>I'm not sure that's okay. You don't need to come.

2284
02:11:35.600 --> 02:11:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I remember when we were doing a class on EPW

2285
02:11:38.960 --> 02:11:42.439
<v Speaker 2>and searches and one of the rangers was given the

2286
02:11:42.520 --> 02:11:45.239
<v Speaker 2>class was like, so, you know, you come up. You

2287
02:11:45.319 --> 02:11:47.439
<v Speaker 2>know your barrel is hot because you've just been in

2288
02:11:47.520 --> 02:11:50.039
<v Speaker 2>an ambush. You come up to the body, you just

2289
02:11:50.079 --> 02:11:52.399
<v Speaker 2>stick your hot barrel in his eyeball, and if he flinches,

2290
02:11:52.439 --> 02:11:55.119
<v Speaker 2>you pull the trigger. The FBI guys looked like they

2291
02:11:55.159 --> 02:11:57.199
<v Speaker 2>were about to ship their pants right then and there.

2292
02:11:57.880 --> 02:12:00.279
<v Speaker 5>I always am nervous around and I'm like, you learn

2293
02:12:00.399 --> 02:12:02.119
<v Speaker 5>something wrong? At what am I?

2294
02:12:02.439 --> 02:12:02.479
<v Speaker 6>Like?

2295
02:12:02.800 --> 02:12:04.000
<v Speaker 5>What have I done wrong lately?

2296
02:12:04.359 --> 02:12:04.399
<v Speaker 6>Like?

2297
02:12:05.119 --> 02:12:08.239
<v Speaker 5>Are they really here for because of you know what

2298
02:12:08.359 --> 02:12:08.840
<v Speaker 5>they say.

2299
02:12:08.800 --> 02:12:11.880
<v Speaker 1>The tax in the background that they're looking into.

2300
02:12:12.800 --> 02:12:15.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah you really hear just a fingerprint is dead, dude?

2301
02:12:15.199 --> 02:12:16.239
<v Speaker 6>That I feel you really?

2302
02:12:16.520 --> 02:12:21.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? Uh Bjorn? Thank you again? How different are the

2303
02:12:22.039 --> 02:12:23.119
<v Speaker 5>squadron cultures?

2304
02:12:25.439 --> 02:12:31.800
<v Speaker 6>Very just like ranger companies, just like football teams in

2305
02:12:31.880 --> 02:12:35.760
<v Speaker 6>a county, just like siblings. There's always a personality. It's

2306
02:12:35.760 --> 02:12:37.319
<v Speaker 6>it's cool. I mean, that would be a whole field

2307
02:12:37.359 --> 02:12:41.159
<v Speaker 6>of study, I think, But like Charlie Company one S five,

2308
02:12:42.399 --> 02:12:44.319
<v Speaker 6>you know, I was attached to them as a sniper, like,

2309
02:12:45.720 --> 02:12:49.359
<v Speaker 6>but then individually I got good friends from there. You know,

2310
02:12:49.359 --> 02:12:53.520
<v Speaker 6>I'm a I think then twenty years go by and

2311
02:12:53.640 --> 02:12:55.199
<v Speaker 6>you hear you grew up a little bit, and you

2312
02:12:55.279 --> 02:12:59.079
<v Speaker 6>hear other like you guys were really retarded. Some of

2313
02:12:59.119 --> 02:13:02.680
<v Speaker 6>the stuff you did wearing sandbags on your head in Panama?

2314
02:13:02.720 --> 02:13:05.399
<v Speaker 6>Why'd you do that? Like I didn't want to expect

2315
02:13:05.399 --> 02:13:06.960
<v Speaker 6>for it made me do it. I'm like, yeah, he's nuts.

2316
02:13:07.199 --> 02:13:10.840
<v Speaker 6>The dude's crazy. So it's like, yeah, we work kind

2317
02:13:10.880 --> 02:13:16.119
<v Speaker 6>of dumb, but they do have personalities squadron to squadron.

2318
02:13:16.680 --> 02:13:17.880
<v Speaker 5>It's weird, isn't it too?

2319
02:13:17.920 --> 02:13:21.159
<v Speaker 4>Because you wonder where that because it sounds as though

2320
02:13:22.159 --> 02:13:24.399
<v Speaker 4>Aco is the same everywhere, because like at two some

2321
02:13:24.640 --> 02:13:28.279
<v Speaker 4>five they were the alphabots and and if you're wearing

2322
02:13:28.399 --> 02:13:29.039
<v Speaker 4>sandbags on it.

2323
02:13:29.199 --> 02:13:33.479
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but it's weird that it had that a company

2324
02:13:34.640 --> 02:13:34.960
<v Speaker 5>has a.

2325
02:13:35.039 --> 02:13:38.239
<v Speaker 4>Person and a lasting personality, not a person that's driven

2326
02:13:38.319 --> 02:13:41.800
<v Speaker 4>by you know, the sergeant major or the first argant, but.

2327
02:13:43.640 --> 02:13:47.039
<v Speaker 6>It's enduring thing. Yeah, it's it's it's really interesting.

2328
02:13:49.800 --> 02:13:50.800
<v Speaker 5>Bjorn. Thanks again.

2329
02:13:52.199 --> 02:13:55.119
<v Speaker 4>Also, what was more rewarding for you personally being an

2330
02:13:55.159 --> 02:13:59.199
<v Speaker 4>assaulter or a sniper? And do the jobs require a

2331
02:13:59.239 --> 02:14:00.000
<v Speaker 4>different personality?

2332
02:14:04.000 --> 02:14:08.840
<v Speaker 6>Pretty pretty awesome question. You have to be able to

2333
02:14:08.920 --> 02:14:11.840
<v Speaker 6>do both, because when I was there, you get switched.

2334
02:14:11.920 --> 02:14:14.439
<v Speaker 6>You're like, hey, you're going to a wrecky troop. You

2335
02:14:14.520 --> 02:14:18.600
<v Speaker 6>don't always have a choice, and it's just a whole

2336
02:14:18.680 --> 02:14:20.479
<v Speaker 6>extra set of skills and guns that you got to

2337
02:14:20.520 --> 02:14:23.800
<v Speaker 6>maintain and do. It's a lot of extra work, but

2338
02:14:25.520 --> 02:14:32.079
<v Speaker 6>it's its own rewards. So different personalities. I always say

2339
02:14:32.119 --> 02:14:35.479
<v Speaker 6>my greatest sniper shot was about one point eight meters.

2340
02:14:35.600 --> 02:14:38.439
<v Speaker 6>I was moving, I was reaching back like this, and

2341
02:14:38.600 --> 02:14:41.560
<v Speaker 6>I do grabbed his wife and it was the first

2342
02:14:41.600 --> 02:14:44.399
<v Speaker 6>time I shot brown tip and I hit him like

2343
02:14:44.840 --> 02:14:46.199
<v Speaker 6>you know when you blow it the yolk out of

2344
02:14:46.239 --> 02:14:49.319
<v Speaker 6>an egg with a pinhole, Like somehow it hit him

2345
02:14:49.359 --> 02:14:53.119
<v Speaker 6>magically and his brain popped out on his wife's lap. Wow,

2346
02:14:53.680 --> 02:14:56.880
<v Speaker 6>as I'm moving and like they're moving and my team

2347
02:14:56.960 --> 02:14:59.560
<v Speaker 6>leaders going up, you know, the other side, or my teammate,

2348
02:15:00.359 --> 02:15:02.479
<v Speaker 6>and we see that slow motion and he looks at

2349
02:15:02.520 --> 02:15:06.479
<v Speaker 6>me like, I'm like, I don't know, that's weird. She's

2350
02:15:06.520 --> 02:15:09.880
<v Speaker 6>sitting there with her brain and the like just nothing,

2351
02:15:10.000 --> 02:15:16.039
<v Speaker 6>I mean, what that doesn't happen? So I call that

2352
02:15:16.119 --> 02:15:18.039
<v Speaker 6>my best sniper shot, well because it was. I didn't

2353
02:15:18.039 --> 02:15:21.000
<v Speaker 6>have any long sexy sniper shots. But I'm proud of

2354
02:15:21.039 --> 02:15:22.880
<v Speaker 6>that one because you know, he was pulling his wife

2355
02:15:22.960 --> 02:15:26.119
<v Speaker 6>and to use her as a human shield. Yeah, I

2356
02:15:26.239 --> 02:15:28.359
<v Speaker 6>put I put it right in the only spot that

2357
02:15:30.800 --> 02:15:33.359
<v Speaker 6>lots of sniper training, you know. Yeah, I just I

2358
02:15:33.479 --> 02:15:36.439
<v Speaker 6>just never had a long shot. Yeah, three hundred meters

2359
02:15:36.520 --> 02:15:37.520
<v Speaker 6>but nothing nothing wrong.

2360
02:15:41.520 --> 02:15:41.640
<v Speaker 5>Now.

2361
02:15:41.720 --> 02:15:44.680
<v Speaker 4>See, I've been led to believe though, that a sniper

2362
02:15:44.680 --> 02:15:47.199
<v Speaker 4>around the head would have made his entire head explode

2363
02:15:48.479 --> 02:15:51.199
<v Speaker 4>bye bye, by all the current ballistics experts.

2364
02:15:50.920 --> 02:15:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Out there, you don't even have to close by them.

2365
02:15:54.119 --> 02:15:56.560
<v Speaker 5>Close by that it'll shear half their head off.

2366
02:15:57.359 --> 02:16:02.039
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you' shooting ice bullets right.

2367
02:16:02.520 --> 02:16:07.439
<v Speaker 5>Right right if Jorn, thanks again? What was harder selection

2368
02:16:07.600 --> 02:16:08.079
<v Speaker 5>or OTC?

2369
02:16:08.239 --> 02:16:13.640
<v Speaker 6>And why damn? What's with these good questions? Really good questions?

2370
02:16:15.680 --> 02:16:22.399
<v Speaker 6>Go Lee. I've thought about this one a lot. And selection,

2371
02:16:22.720 --> 02:16:26.319
<v Speaker 6>I'd say OTCS because it was harder because selection you're alone.

2372
02:16:26.359 --> 02:16:29.600
<v Speaker 6>I got to be alone walking the mountains and it's

2373
02:16:30.439 --> 02:16:33.000
<v Speaker 6>non stop walking the mountains and you're wet and tired.

2374
02:16:33.680 --> 02:16:35.840
<v Speaker 6>But I mean it's so out in the middle of nowhere.

2375
02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:40.079
<v Speaker 6>I would I can't sing, but I was singing whatever,

2376
02:16:40.360 --> 02:16:44.120
<v Speaker 6>you know, hymns and hers and everything. I'm just singing

2377
02:16:44.280 --> 02:16:47.799
<v Speaker 6>like afraid that I'm you know, I'm not gonna make it.

2378
02:16:47.959 --> 02:16:52.040
<v Speaker 6>And so yeah, I mean it was miles and miles

2379
02:16:52.079 --> 02:16:55.120
<v Speaker 6>and miles, hundreds and hundreds of miles in the mountains

2380
02:16:56.639 --> 02:17:01.760
<v Speaker 6>over many states, and it was extremely difficult. But OHTC

2381
02:17:01.959 --> 02:17:06.879
<v Speaker 6>was harder because it's long, grueling, longer than it takes

2382
02:17:06.920 --> 02:17:12.879
<v Speaker 6>to train a fighter pilot. And I did it twice.

2383
02:17:13.079 --> 02:17:14.959
<v Speaker 6>I did OCC twice and ripped twice.

2384
02:17:17.239 --> 02:17:21.719
<v Speaker 4>Glutton for punishment, you are, yeah, not anymore and corporn,

2385
02:17:21.760 --> 02:17:24.239
<v Speaker 4>thank you very much. Any funny stories from when they

2386
02:17:24.319 --> 02:17:26.239
<v Speaker 4>first brought dogs into the unit.

2387
02:17:29.440 --> 02:17:32.719
<v Speaker 6>So Pepper, before I had her, she and before Shawn

2388
02:17:32.799 --> 02:17:34.719
<v Speaker 6>Kelly had her, she was with a guy named Kelly Robie,

2389
02:17:34.719 --> 02:17:38.159
<v Speaker 6>who's an awesome dude. He's out there on Instagram.

2390
02:17:38.920 --> 02:17:42.440
<v Speaker 5>Kelly is second bat with Kelly. Yeah, I was a

2391
02:17:42.520 --> 02:17:43.360
<v Speaker 5>second bat with Kelly.

2392
02:17:43.719 --> 02:17:48.159
<v Speaker 6>Oh nice, nice, nice. Yeah he had Pepper first. I wasn't.

2393
02:17:48.319 --> 02:17:51.319
<v Speaker 6>I wasn't there. But this is a true story. Kelly

2394
02:17:51.440 --> 02:17:56.079
<v Speaker 6>is just freaking he's real. He sent Pepper out, you know,

2395
02:17:56.360 --> 02:18:01.520
<v Speaker 6>on a training mission as we're attempting, like somebody got

2396
02:18:01.639 --> 02:18:02.959
<v Speaker 6>had the idea, Hey, do you think we can do

2397
02:18:03.000 --> 02:18:06.520
<v Speaker 6>cekep with thugs? Well, why, well, because they can go

2398
02:18:06.639 --> 02:18:09.639
<v Speaker 6>up and bite somebody and we won't get shot. How

2399
02:18:09.680 --> 02:18:11.840
<v Speaker 6>the hell are you going to do that? Well, we're

2400
02:18:11.840 --> 02:18:14.520
<v Speaker 6>going to train him by by doing this, and then

2401
02:18:14.680 --> 02:18:17.280
<v Speaker 6>one more step and one more step. So this was

2402
02:18:17.360 --> 02:18:21.840
<v Speaker 6>way early in the process. So you know, it turns

2403
02:18:21.879 --> 02:18:23.840
<v Speaker 6>out we go to war and we have we're fighting

2404
02:18:23.879 --> 02:18:27.399
<v Speaker 6>people that are just culturally extremely different, different diet, they

2405
02:18:27.479 --> 02:18:29.959
<v Speaker 6>smell different, so it's pretty easy for the dog watch

2406
02:18:30.040 --> 02:18:33.680
<v Speaker 6>the turf as you're getting into a panther. Pretty easy

2407
02:18:33.719 --> 02:18:38.840
<v Speaker 6>target discrimination there. But in training, so Kelly sent Pepper

2408
02:18:39.040 --> 02:18:41.200
<v Speaker 6>into it a dark room. She goes around and she

2409
02:18:41.319 --> 02:18:44.920
<v Speaker 6>comes back. He's looking for her, and she bit him

2410
02:18:44.920 --> 02:18:49.360
<v Speaker 6>in the nuts, her own handler. Yeah, and that was

2411
02:18:49.399 --> 02:18:50.520
<v Speaker 6>the end of that relationship.

2412
02:18:53.200 --> 02:18:53.719
<v Speaker 1>That'll do it.

2413
02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:56.879
<v Speaker 6>Yep, Kelly was done with Pepper. I mean, maybe I'm

2414
02:18:56.879 --> 02:19:00.719
<v Speaker 6>missing something and he'll fix it. But awesome guy. He

2415
02:19:00.840 --> 02:19:04.399
<v Speaker 6>helped me. Like I got to the unit and there's

2416
02:19:04.479 --> 02:19:06.680
<v Speaker 6>like a few guys that are just down to earth.

2417
02:19:06.959 --> 02:19:09.600
<v Speaker 6>He was one of them, Like he just knew it

2418
02:19:09.680 --> 02:19:11.200
<v Speaker 6>was hard and he was an operator the whole way.

2419
02:19:13.079 --> 02:19:15.479
<v Speaker 6>That's the that's the key man, be an operator in life.

2420
02:19:15.520 --> 02:19:18.639
<v Speaker 6>But I, you know, have the mentality of a support person.

2421
02:19:20.559 --> 02:19:25.520
<v Speaker 6>He was like that. And yeah, I mean I'm sure

2422
02:19:25.520 --> 02:19:26.319
<v Speaker 6>there's a lot more.

2423
02:19:26.280 --> 02:19:30.399
<v Speaker 4>But Joe's got Thank you very much. Do dogs play

2424
02:19:30.399 --> 02:19:32.600
<v Speaker 4>any role in the SSC process on targets?

2425
02:19:38.840 --> 02:19:41.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah? I can't answer that one. Okay, Yeah, good question,

2426
02:19:41.799 --> 02:19:44.360
<v Speaker 6>very good question. Love it, love it, Love the thought there.

2427
02:19:45.440 --> 02:19:49.920
<v Speaker 5>And then this last question.

2428
02:19:51.520 --> 02:19:56.959
<v Speaker 4>Is asking if you knew some people by name and

2429
02:19:57.399 --> 02:20:04.239
<v Speaker 4>what you thought about them. So I can either ask

2430
02:20:04.360 --> 02:20:07.120
<v Speaker 4>you and you can say whatever you want to say,

2431
02:20:07.360 --> 02:20:10.319
<v Speaker 4>or I can not even bring the names up so

2432
02:20:11.079 --> 02:20:12.319
<v Speaker 4>you won't be held.

2433
02:20:13.879 --> 02:20:16.079
<v Speaker 6>I'm fine, I'm not I'll face that tank. I'm cool

2434
02:20:16.120 --> 02:20:16.239
<v Speaker 6>with it.

2435
02:20:16.360 --> 02:20:16.639
<v Speaker 5>Okay.

2436
02:20:17.920 --> 02:20:21.559
<v Speaker 4>Did you know Tom D Scott Miller or Steve Gilliand

2437
02:20:21.959 --> 02:20:23.840
<v Speaker 4>if so, what did you think of him? And what

2438
02:20:23.959 --> 02:20:25.879
<v Speaker 4>did you think of the officers you served under?

2439
02:20:26.840 --> 02:20:27.440
<v Speaker 5>Walk the unit?

2440
02:20:29.239 --> 02:20:33.559
<v Speaker 6>I know who all those men are, Scottie, General Miller. Awesome,

2441
02:20:33.760 --> 02:20:38.239
<v Speaker 6>awesome man. He's the kind of guy. I never directly

2442
02:20:38.319 --> 02:20:42.120
<v Speaker 6>directly worked with him, like in a troop, but amazing man.

2443
02:20:43.479 --> 02:20:45.879
<v Speaker 6>I'll take the time for he was a commander for

2444
02:20:45.959 --> 02:20:50.360
<v Speaker 6>a time when I was there. Excellent officer. You know

2445
02:20:50.639 --> 02:20:53.879
<v Speaker 6>this wasn't him, but I had true commanders who would

2446
02:20:55.440 --> 02:20:57.360
<v Speaker 6>We were getting ready to go on a mission and

2447
02:20:57.399 --> 02:20:59.600
<v Speaker 6>I'd be like, where's my quickie saw? You know, I

2448
02:20:59.680 --> 02:21:02.479
<v Speaker 6>got I gotta have the saw on my back because

2449
02:21:02.479 --> 02:21:06.520
<v Speaker 6>we're roping. Boss, where's the quickie? It's on his back.

2450
02:21:06.520 --> 02:21:09.079
<v Speaker 6>He's like, no, No, it's okay, I got it, Like boss, no, no,

2451
02:21:09.239 --> 02:21:11.440
<v Speaker 6>that's my job. I already got it on.

2452
02:21:11.600 --> 02:21:11.760
<v Speaker 5>Man.

2453
02:21:12.120 --> 02:21:15.120
<v Speaker 6>I mean you know it's okay. Like something like that.

2454
02:21:15.239 --> 02:21:18.000
<v Speaker 6>An officer does something like that for me. We are

2455
02:21:18.760 --> 02:21:23.079
<v Speaker 6>we're good man, I got you, brother, and then that

2456
02:21:23.280 --> 02:21:26.920
<v Speaker 6>perpetuates that that real brotherhood. You know, it doesn't have

2457
02:21:27.040 --> 02:21:29.920
<v Speaker 6>to be that divide and there very often wasn't at

2458
02:21:29.959 --> 02:21:34.280
<v Speaker 6>the unit a couple of times, but for the most part, man,

2459
02:21:35.319 --> 02:21:39.680
<v Speaker 6>were they good solid men, officers, men that I still

2460
02:21:39.840 --> 02:21:46.479
<v Speaker 6>aspire to be, like, you know, Scott MILLERSA Yeah, wonderful man.

2461
02:21:49.040 --> 02:21:49.520
<v Speaker 6>That's awesome.

2462
02:21:49.799 --> 02:21:52.319
<v Speaker 5>Did you know if we had on Petra nothing?

2463
02:21:53.079 --> 02:21:56.399
<v Speaker 2>Well, Dave, I mean, thank you for sharing your experiences

2464
02:21:56.440 --> 02:21:59.159
<v Speaker 2>with us man and just being so open. I really

2465
02:21:59.200 --> 02:22:01.159
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it, and you know, I think it goes a

2466
02:22:01.239 --> 02:22:04.239
<v Speaker 2>long way to you know what we've been talking about

2467
02:22:04.239 --> 02:22:06.440
<v Speaker 2>this whole time. I mean, like these conversations matter to

2468
02:22:06.520 --> 02:22:09.639
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people out there, whether they're veterans or

2469
02:22:09.840 --> 02:22:11.840
<v Speaker 2>even if they're young people. That we do have a

2470
02:22:11.879 --> 02:22:15.559
<v Speaker 2>lot of a young audience actually, of people who are

2471
02:22:15.719 --> 02:22:19.520
<v Speaker 2>thinking about signing up, thinking about and listening, and I

2472
02:22:19.600 --> 02:22:20.559
<v Speaker 2>think these are really.

2473
02:22:20.479 --> 02:22:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Like important conversations for them to hear.

2474
02:22:23.200 --> 02:22:27.639
<v Speaker 6>Mm hmm. That's good to hear. That's really I don't

2475
02:22:28.399 --> 02:22:30.959
<v Speaker 6>know if I've thought about it like that, like that's

2476
02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:33.719
<v Speaker 6>cool and man, Jack days, thank you guys. I wish

2477
02:22:35.000 --> 02:22:36.399
<v Speaker 6>there were so many times I wanted to stop and

2478
02:22:36.479 --> 02:22:39.799
<v Speaker 6>ask your opinion or you know, stuff from you guys.

2479
02:22:39.840 --> 02:22:41.879
<v Speaker 6>Maybe we can do that at some point. I want

2480
02:22:41.920 --> 02:22:42.799
<v Speaker 6>to hear some of your stories.

2481
02:22:42.959 --> 02:22:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I would be happy to have you on again, man, anytime.

2482
02:22:47.879 --> 02:22:49.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, this has been. This has been really interesting

2483
02:22:49.760 --> 02:22:50.360
<v Speaker 1>and insightful.

2484
02:22:50.399 --> 02:22:54.399
<v Speaker 6>I think, thank you guys very very much. It has been.

2485
02:22:54.440 --> 02:22:57.239
<v Speaker 6>I knew it would be. I don't get nervous anymore

2486
02:22:57.239 --> 02:23:00.360
<v Speaker 6>because I've done it a few times, and it's it

2487
02:23:00.479 --> 02:23:05.559
<v Speaker 6>takes me to hopefully many people to like the next level,

2488
02:23:05.639 --> 02:23:08.159
<v Speaker 6>Like I, okay, I just talked about more stuff than

2489
02:23:08.200 --> 02:23:10.159
<v Speaker 6>I didn't think of it. You know, I knew when

2490
02:23:10.239 --> 02:23:14.360
<v Speaker 6>not to talk about stuff, but like it's it's it's

2491
02:23:14.440 --> 02:23:16.399
<v Speaker 6>a scary thing to think that I might get it

2492
02:23:16.479 --> 02:23:22.479
<v Speaker 6>wrong because of the deadly seriousness of what we what

2493
02:23:22.600 --> 02:23:22.959
<v Speaker 6>we did.

2494
02:23:23.479 --> 02:23:25.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm I'm envious.

2495
02:23:25.680 --> 02:23:28.319
<v Speaker 4>I I mean, if I could change one thing in

2496
02:23:28.360 --> 02:23:29.760
<v Speaker 4>my life, it would have been that I would have

2497
02:23:29.840 --> 02:23:33.760
<v Speaker 4>kept journals because as you know, like it was just

2498
02:23:34.120 --> 02:23:36.360
<v Speaker 4>it's one green GluR after a while.

2499
02:23:36.600 --> 02:23:41.639
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, I kept grgs too, So like I've got dates,

2500
02:23:42.399 --> 02:23:44.120
<v Speaker 6>one day I'll sit down and match them all up.

2501
02:23:44.120 --> 02:23:44.920
<v Speaker 6>I haven't done it yet.

2502
02:23:45.319 --> 02:23:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a I'd really encourage you to finish your book, Dave,

2503
02:23:49.719 --> 02:23:51.920
<v Speaker 2>even if you don't publish it, if you put it

2504
02:23:52.040 --> 02:23:54.000
<v Speaker 2>in a shoe box and you're safe for your kids.

2505
02:23:55.319 --> 02:23:57.280
<v Speaker 2>I get emails all the time from the kids of

2506
02:23:57.360 --> 02:24:00.479
<v Speaker 2>Vietnam veterans and how do I find out my dad

2507
02:24:00.559 --> 02:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>did because he.

2508
02:24:01.239 --> 02:24:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Never talked about it, you know.

2509
02:24:02.600 --> 02:24:06.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean there's a podcast of course nowadays, but you know,

2510
02:24:06.399 --> 02:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>those sharing those memories with your kids and grandkids, it

2511
02:24:09.079 --> 02:24:09.879
<v Speaker 2>means a lot to them.

2512
02:24:10.719 --> 02:24:14.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thank you for the encouragement. I will do that.

2513
02:24:15.959 --> 02:24:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Next Friday, we'll be back. We're going to have Alan

2514
02:24:18.319 --> 02:24:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Schabarrow on the show.

2515
02:24:20.879 --> 02:24:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Alan's a great guy that I knew from back in

2516
02:24:22.959 --> 02:24:28.280
<v Speaker 2>the day, and he served in third Special Forces Group

2517
02:24:28.600 --> 02:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>and he just got back from some time he spent

2518
02:24:32.879 --> 02:24:33.920
<v Speaker 2>in the West Bank.

2519
02:24:34.200 --> 02:24:35.000
<v Speaker 6>And in Israel.

2520
02:24:35.879 --> 02:24:38.879
<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna have an interesting conversation with Alan next week.

2521
02:24:39.239 --> 02:24:40.520
<v Speaker 2>I hope you guys will join us.

2522
02:24:40.559 --> 02:24:49.319
<v Speaker 4>Then check out Christology on Instagram. Yeah, Christology podcast on Instagram.

2523
02:24:51.479 --> 02:24:52.079
<v Speaker 5>Thanks everybody.

2524
02:24:52.159 --> 02:24:54.959
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thank you Dave staying talking to Thank you brothers,

2525
02:24:54.959 --> 02:24:56.680
<v Speaker 6>appreciate it. Thanks