Speaker 1: Somebody dot TV New Metal aid a strong style, sa Son,
Speaker 1: you're gonna ring a ball water you going over the
Speaker 1: top like talking about Salon.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the laps fan man number one in the ring.
Speaker 1: Forget about Osada with a real king of swing when
Speaker 1: the bell goes in and the kicked like men throwing
Speaker 1: in the corner with its rash like sting. Even Jerry
Speaker 1: King and take off the crowd nodded in his head
Speaker 1: like his tean low Brown were just getting low down.
Speaker 2: For the goat even higher flipping you on your head.
Speaker 1: But you no cool drive more knowledge and dragon spits fire.
Speaker 1: Give you more shot than when the air tree tire
Speaker 1: dropping more truth than the con of sniper.
Speaker 3: Bless you with a coconut Roddy Piper checking JP.
Speaker 2: He like j y D drop the cupcakes and got
Speaker 2: the brain.
Speaker 3: Bove means the best podcast frost start to close cloud
Speaker 3: if you all better fit this flaw sick and polls well.
Speaker 4: By Now you know and in case you don't, It's
Speaker 4: August third, ty Noon Comedy Village Tie Square, not a
Speaker 4: fucking game. The Lapsed Fan Live. We take to the
Speaker 4: stage smack dab in the middle of the biggest and
Speaker 4: first to night SummerSlam in WWE history, Because you know, Boss,
Speaker 4: there's just sometimes you've got to gather wrestling fans around
Speaker 4: and just have a talk about why it is we're
Speaker 4: still watching this stuff if none of it's.
Speaker 5: Real, listen and why? And where better? But what better
Speaker 5: place to do it than in the middle of New
Speaker 5: York City on fucking Broadway. Essentially all right, taking care,
Speaker 5: taking care of business the way we do there.
Speaker 4: It goes the neighborhood, you know the deal Comedy Village
Speaker 4: dot com for tickets, please join us as we bring
Speaker 4: together the Laps. And this is huge because we're joined
Speaker 4: now by the proprietor of Seid Establishment, someone really in
Speaker 4: the firmament of New York City comedy and we're really
Speaker 4: privileged to work with him. Coming up on August third
Speaker 4: PJ Landers Season New York comedian, actor, writer, owner of
Speaker 4: the Comedy Village. Is he your ton of experience in
Speaker 4: the industry and a queen's boy.
Speaker 5: PJ.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the Labs.
Speaker 2: Fan, Thank you guys for having me. I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to be here.
Speaker 4: So first get our listeners. If you could acquainted with
Speaker 4: the history of the venue. This is a really cool
Speaker 4: place that we're going to be playing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're excited to have you. I mean, we're coming
Speaker 2: from a friend of ours, Ray, who always is a
Speaker 2: comedy and wrestling fan since I've known him, Ray Goots,
Speaker 2: and he introduced me to you guys, And this place
Speaker 2: is exciting. We're in the heart of the village, excuse me,
Speaker 2: your heart of Times Square right now on West forty
Speaker 2: forth Street, just like a couple of blocks from the
Speaker 2: train station and the bus station, so it's real easy
Speaker 2: to get to. And I've been doing comedy for over
Speaker 2: thirty years in New York City. We originally started on
Speaker 2: West third Street at a place called the Boston Comedy Club.
Speaker 2: I know now a bunch of of your fans will
Speaker 2: know this because this is the place where Dave Chappelle started,
Speaker 2: Louis c. K started, David tel started. Is more all
Speaker 2: the guys we know.
Speaker 5: Now, isn't there a little bit of irony that there's
Speaker 5: a Boston, that there's the Boston Comedy Club in New
Speaker 5: York given the sports rivalries of the of the cities.
Speaker 2: It's so great that you say that because the guy
Speaker 2: who started it was a guy named Barry Katz. Okay,
Speaker 2: Barry Katz was from Boston and there was another company
Speaker 2: called New York Comedy Club, so he wanted to put
Speaker 2: a twist on it. That's how many people thought it
Speaker 2: was stupid. They're like, what a stupid idea for the
Speaker 2: Boston Comedy Club on West third Street. But you know what,
Speaker 2: it was genius because everybody talked about it, and now
Speaker 2: we're talking about it forty years later.
Speaker 5: Amzing.
Speaker 2: But I got very lucky. Barry was deciding to go
Speaker 2: out to Los Angeles and they were going to close
Speaker 2: the club, and I had no experience running a full
Speaker 2: time club, but this was two thousand and five, and
Speaker 2: they said, hey, do you want to do it? And
Speaker 2: we took gover and within a year we were successful.
Speaker 2: We had Chappelle, who had just come out of like
Speaker 2: Recluse with the with the whole Chapelle show thing. He
Speaker 2: came down to our place one night and he performed
Speaker 2: for the first time that anybody had ever seen him
Speaker 2: do it. He performed for four hours on my stage.
Speaker 4: Wow. Wow, so this is this is hollowed ground. That's wild. Well,
Speaker 4: we're a couple, we're both Bostonians PJ. And we grew
Speaker 4: up going to the New York Comedy Club. No, I'm
Speaker 4: kidding it. We could we can switch to the switch
Speaker 4: the joke around.
Speaker 5: You know, we do.
Speaker 4: We do a thing where we find a wrestler has
Speaker 4: been in a movie, okay, and we review the movie.
Speaker 4: We call it qualifying for one of the shows we
Speaker 4: do if there's a wrestler involved somehow, or if it's
Speaker 4: about a wrestler. You know, by virtue of working with us,
Speaker 4: you might help qualify Spike Lee's She's Got to Have
Speaker 4: It because I understand that you played a role. Perhaps
Speaker 4: there can you tell us about that film, maybe it'll
Speaker 4: help us qualify that great picture.
Speaker 2: Well it's that was actually the series that was on Netflix.
Speaker 4: Oh got it?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was a little bit different.
Speaker 2: I actually played a nice, nice, good old Spike Lee
Speaker 2: racist cop.
Speaker 4: How how how naturally did that come to you? I'm kidding,
Speaker 4: but no, no, it's it's it's funny.
Speaker 2: It's because listen in my neighborhood, Sunnyside Woodside, which let
Speaker 2: me tell you, and you'll tell me when to stop.
Speaker 4: And I'll please go ahead.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'll be listening to you carefully to
Speaker 2: uh to break in obviously I'm not going to be
Speaker 2: talking the whole time. But I grew up in Sunnyside Woodside. Now,
Speaker 2: for a bunch of wrestling fans out there, you'll know,
Speaker 2: Sunnyside Gardens is a world famous place, and I lived
Speaker 2: there and I actually got That's where I first got
Speaker 2: my taste for wrestling from from you know, undercards, And
Speaker 2: I don't even note of the names that I saw.
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about the big guys later, but none
Speaker 2: of the names that I saw I can remember. But
Speaker 2: it was real wrestling. You know. I love what people
Speaker 2: say like fake. Like I don't understand how you think
Speaker 2: a two hundred and twenty five pound man slapping you
Speaker 2: in the face, whether it's real or fake, is not real, right.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, listen, I'm want to let you
Speaker 5: know that PJ. So, I've gotten in the ring twice, okay,
Speaker 5: and I will tell you that the next morning after
Speaker 5: I wrestled, the pain was undeniably real. How sore I was.
Speaker 5: It's fucking real.
Speaker 2: Man. What was the girl's name? Who beats me?
Speaker 4: Well, now we're not talking about wrestling anymore. That's a
Speaker 4: whole different thing exactly. Hello, major concern there well, I'm
Speaker 4: glad you went right there, PJ.
Speaker 5: Because we do.
Speaker 4: We always covet the opportunity to talk to fans who
Speaker 4: remember by gone eras we focus a lot on recollecting
Speaker 4: the nostalgia that wrestling, the special nostalgic place wrestling can
Speaker 4: hold in a lot of people's minds. So what are
Speaker 4: we talking about? Were talking about the Pedro Morales era
Speaker 4: or the Bob Backland era, or the Bruno San Martino era,
Speaker 4: the Hogan era.
Speaker 2: We're talking like with those two ladder names, the Bruno,
Speaker 2: the later part Hogan, but Salmonino, the Big Boy Andre,
Speaker 2: the Giants. Yes, you know these guys, These guys I
Speaker 2: got very lucky to see. We all kind of liked wrestling.
Speaker 2: We would watch it on w O Wall in New
Speaker 2: York City. If I can recall, it was on later
Speaker 2: either like a ten or eleven o'clock where we had
Speaker 2: to do a sleepover, yes kind of thing, and you
Speaker 2: know there was no I can't remember because I'm, like
Speaker 2: I said, I'm a little older than you guys, but
Speaker 2: in the seventies, I can't recall it. Like overall, like
Speaker 2: people saying, oh, it's fake, it's this and that. I
Speaker 2: think It was just fun to watch. It was something
Speaker 2: different than anything that you ever saw. Nobody in your
Speaker 2: neighborhood was wrestling like that. Everybody was either boxing or
Speaker 2: you know, doing a karate kind of thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it catches the eye in a way, like
Speaker 4: if you have any m JP. We talked about this
Speaker 4: all the time, if you have any like proclivity towards
Speaker 4: like hand to hand combat as a kid, like if
Speaker 4: you're into hinjas or anything, wrestling is just like this
Speaker 4: fascinating representation of what a fight might look like. You
Speaker 4: don't know, you know, you haven't been in a hundred fights,
Speaker 4: you know, this could very well be what a fight
Speaker 4: looks like you especially before UFC existed.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'll tell you no, no, you go oh.
Speaker 5: I was just going to say that. You know, as
Speaker 5: a as a kid, one of the things that always
Speaker 5: attracted me to wrestling was the idea that this is
Speaker 5: what I wanted sports to be. I wanted sports to
Speaker 5: be people just hating on each other for no reason
Speaker 5: and just beating the crap out of each other. Like,
Speaker 5: to me, that's what sports were all about.
Speaker 2: No rules, my family life, all right, you were going
Speaker 2: to say, Pa, I was going to add on to
Speaker 2: it that, you know, in my neighborhood, wrestling saved my life. Wow,
Speaker 2: it saved my life a bunch of times, like like
Speaker 2: in fights, right. I remember this one time, and I
Speaker 2: didn't even know how to do it, but I got
Speaker 2: a guy. We had a fight, and I got a
Speaker 2: guy in a headlock, you know, and more than likely
Speaker 2: it was completely incorrect, it was, but I you know,
Speaker 2: I thought I was like I was Bob Backling at
Speaker 2: that moment. You know, I was like, Oh, I got
Speaker 2: this guy, you know. And then another time I thought
Speaker 2: this guy was much bigger than I was, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe I was, you know, ten or ten, eleven years old,
Speaker 2: whatever it was, and I go to my friends. I
Speaker 2: go it was maybe like six foot two hundred pounds.
Speaker 2: I say to my guys, I got this one. And
Speaker 2: I go up to him and I grab him in
Speaker 2: the headlock, and just like a scene like in the middle,
Speaker 2: like like we had planned it, he grabs me by
Speaker 2: my ass, He flips me over, throws me into a car,
Speaker 2: and slaps the shit out of me.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's that's so true. You would never
Speaker 4: Your point, I think is you would never think to
Speaker 4: grab a headlock. If you didn't watch wrestling, that'd be
Speaker 4: the last instinct you'd have in the middle of a fight.
Speaker 4: But you're like, it just I don't know, you kind
Speaker 4: of download it in your head in a way.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to admit that it is an exciting sport.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really a certain people, a certain type
Speaker 2: of person that watches it. You know, if you're a
Speaker 2: golf guy, you might like it, but maybe you won't.
Speaker 2: Maybe you want the excitement. You like, like you just said,
Speaker 2: the bullshit that goes back and forth and back in
Speaker 2: the day was even worse. You know, they were saying
Speaker 2: racial slurs and all about their wives, and you know,
Speaker 2: well maybe they do it now. I know, I think
Speaker 2: it's a little different now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot more passive aggressive, but yeah, they
Speaker 4: do try to do mic drop things on the light
Speaker 4: like that. But all right, this is great, what a
Speaker 4: great foundation. Now I'm coming in JP and I are
Speaker 4: coming in hot because we know there's a couple of
Speaker 4: things that you're going to be able to talk about
Speaker 4: when it comes to this era of wrestling in New
Speaker 4: York and coming of age during this time. One is
Speaker 4: Bob Beckland. You already mentioned him. He of course reigned
Speaker 4: for years his WWWF champion, kind of taking the mantle
Speaker 4: of the babyface champion at the Garden, after Bruno and
Speaker 4: then Pedro and then Superstar, and then it was Backland.
Speaker 4: There is a story. When I first heard it PJ,
Speaker 4: and I'd like you to share it with our listeners.
Speaker 4: I thought this had to have been the era where
Speaker 4: Bob Eckland in the nineties turned into a psychopathic bad
Speaker 4: guy because of what I was hearing. But no, this
Speaker 4: story happened when Bob Backlin was the squeakiest, clean good
Speaker 4: guy in all of wrestling. Tell us what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm at the Garden. I can't remember the year,
Speaker 2: forgive me for it. I actually called up because when
Speaker 2: we talk about the other things, I called three other
Speaker 2: people to firm up my story. But we were at
Speaker 2: the Garden and this guy, which we'll talk to or
Speaker 2: unless you want to bring it up there, I'll just
Speaker 2: say for now, this guy mel got us like seats
Speaker 2: that were in the area, you know, and Bob macklean
Speaker 2: came out of the flying off of the ring, flying
Speaker 2: off the ring like let me tell you when you
Speaker 2: watch it on TV. It's one thing, but when you're
Speaker 2: five and ten fifteen feet away as a young kid,
Speaker 2: and you see a two hundred pound man flying ten
Speaker 2: feet into the air, and I forgot who he was
Speaker 2: going against, but he gave when to give the guy
Speaker 2: a shot, and the guy ducked, and my beautiful red
Speaker 2: head freckle face took the punch right in the jaw.
Speaker 4: Oh, you took it for real.
Speaker 2: I took it for real. Whether he was really gonna
Speaker 2: hit the guy or anything, it's just like it was
Speaker 2: a flying's arm. The guy ducked. My dumb ass face
Speaker 2: was there. Pow. I go back on my back. I
Speaker 2: shake it off. I jump up as if I'm gonna wrestle,
Speaker 2: and he looks at me and he laughed his ass
Speaker 2: off because I had popped up so quickly.
Speaker 4: You're looking for the comeback. So what happened. Did they
Speaker 4: come over and kiss your ass and try to make
Speaker 4: sure you didn't sue them? Or was that before? That
Speaker 4: was a thing?
Speaker 2: That was before that. They didn't even give me a coke.
Speaker 2: They were like, get out of here again. You know,
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, this is what actually happened.
Speaker 2: I think, Bob, like they came back and came over
Speaker 2: a little maybe slightly concerned. But this is now, you're
Speaker 2: talking thousands of a second. That's all of this is happening, right,
Speaker 2: So so I get hit, I go back, I pop
Speaker 2: up him, and I have that exchange. He comes over
Speaker 2: a little closer to realize I'm okay. He grabs my
Speaker 2: shirt and throws me back again. Wow, it was great,
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 4: Why did he throw you back again?
Speaker 2: It's just the way, you know what, like not hard enough,
Speaker 2: but just like, get out of here, kid, you know
Speaker 2: you're okay, stop stop whining or whatever you thought you
Speaker 2: were going to do. So there was no security, there
Speaker 2: was no you know, and McMahon didn't come down and
Speaker 2: give me a pat on the back. You know, there
Speaker 2: was no autograph picture of me in the back with him.
Speaker 4: You know, that's what a what a different world. And
Speaker 4: not only had that happened, but for like the superhero
Speaker 4: of the territory to do that to you and and
Speaker 4: and kind of brush it off like that, it's this
Speaker 4: is tremendous. So when he when he hit you, did
Speaker 4: you did you fall back in your chair? I think
Speaker 4: you said that, or did you hit the deck or
Speaker 4: did you just stagger.
Speaker 2: We were I think I just staggered back because it
Speaker 2: was a decent shot because we we had stood up
Speaker 2: right because we were had those the folding chairs are
Speaker 2: right in the front, so the bar was like literally
Speaker 2: right in front of us. So we were like holding
Speaker 2: onto that that excitement. And then he came off and
Speaker 2: then we all I kind of stood up and then
Speaker 2: I took the punch and the chair went back a
Speaker 2: little bit, and then uh uh he just he just
Speaker 2: like looked and again it was like right there. Now
Speaker 2: there was no no video of this. I would love
Speaker 2: I love to find that video. Oh my god, that
Speaker 2: would be great. But irregardless of that situation, that's that's
Speaker 2: a reference to uh, what's that movie? I'm sorry. I
Speaker 2: thought you guys would get it from Boss from Boston.
Speaker 2: You know the movie were Matt Damon.
Speaker 5: Oh you're talking about to depart it?
Speaker 2: No, the other one move.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm I'm sewing like I'm sewing like uh,
Speaker 5: you know, Bob Backman hitting fans thing that I'm not
Speaker 5: even thinking about Boston references.
Speaker 6: I didn't mean to go I didn't mean to go
Speaker 6: too deep to great reference because you know, Ben Affleck
Speaker 6: goes in dressed with a high he runs a high suit.
Speaker 2: He's got you know, and he says to these guys, hey,
Speaker 2: you guys are suspect and irregardless of that situation.
Speaker 4: Okay, now I'm with you. I remember exactly. I don't
Speaker 4: remember seeing regardless, you know what I thought.
Speaker 5: Of with the white sox and everything. That's the best party,
Speaker 5: those white white the short like the pants are like
Speaker 5: like a size or too too short, and so they're
Speaker 5: just exposed white sox. Hilarious.
Speaker 4: Well that that reminded me, PJ. Of some of the
Speaker 4: overly verbose words that Vince McMahon would use when he
Speaker 4: was ringside with the microphone. Right, he'd say, nonetheless that, notwithstanding,
Speaker 4: regardless of.
Speaker 5: The regardless of the fact of the not with standing
Speaker 5: that information, and we will indeed provide further entertainment. Does
Speaker 5: we prolong the excess of wrestling for the audience?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: Something like that. What did you think of Vince growing up?
Speaker 2: You know, I guess you know, we learned to hate
Speaker 2: some of them because they you know, they were programming
Speaker 2: us to hate this one or that one. You know,
Speaker 2: it's easy. So I don't think I had a real
Speaker 2: understanding of what was happening in his and when you
Speaker 2: look at it like one of my Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I just I whoever's gonna hate whoever loved me, any
Speaker 2: of your fans who love me right now just because
Speaker 2: of who I am, you might hate me when I'm
Speaker 2: about to say this, But I just watched The Iron
Speaker 2: Claw from beginning to end. Oh, like like a week ago.
Speaker 2: I got home from the club it was on. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, let me finally watch this, and it
Speaker 2: drew me in and drew me in and drew me
Speaker 2: into the to the everything about that movie.
Speaker 4: You know absolutely the Iron Claw was. It means something
Speaker 4: to us because we did a series on World Class
Speaker 4: and the guy who plays Fritz van Eric listen to
Speaker 4: a lot of the shows that we did. He said
Speaker 4: that in an interview to prepare for the character. So
Speaker 4: we've got we've got some skin in that game. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we pick up what you're throwing down there. We know
Speaker 4: the story almost too well, but yeah, we'll leave that
Speaker 4: to the second.
Speaker 5: Is that as part of the problem we know we
Speaker 5: do know the story a little too well, go a
Speaker 5: little too attached to that one.
Speaker 4: We'll have to talk about that. Bja one day, but
Speaker 4: you said the name, you said Mel, and this took
Speaker 4: shape because our mutual friend Ray was talking to you
Speaker 4: about your memories growing up as a wrestling fan in
Speaker 4: New York City as a kid in the seventies, and
Speaker 4: you started telling him about this guy. I'll let you
Speaker 4: tell a story. But who would you know, sort of
Speaker 4: recruit kids, for lack of a better term, to come
Speaker 4: to the matches. And you had no idea that this
Speaker 4: is like something that's deeply embedded in like wrestling conversation
Speaker 4: right now, So can you take us through that that
Speaker 4: gentleman you mentioned.
Speaker 2: Mel, Absolutely that you know when I say it's funny,
Speaker 2: it's like sexual abuse and all of these things power
Speaker 2: over people is not funny. But in our neighborhood, none
Speaker 2: of us were attacked. We had a bunch of we're
Speaker 2: all Catholics. We didn't get there was no priests that
Speaker 2: were attacking us as a matter of fact of anything.
Speaker 2: They were a little rough on us because that's how
Speaker 2: they were taught. You know, they were taught in the
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties when Latin and there was real respect
Speaker 2: for the religion. And you know, we were always growing
Speaker 2: up second and third generation Italian and Irish and Jewish.
Speaker 2: We were always wise asses. So the priest never attacked us.
Speaker 2: It was never like that, but we were aware of things.
Speaker 2: There was one priest, this father Rodriguez, who was a
Speaker 2: little friendly with all of us, you know. And I
Speaker 2: will tell your audience if there's any gay kids out there,
Speaker 2: just so you understand, I am not gay. But what
Speaker 2: I'm about to say might sound a little strange. But
Speaker 2: I was a tap dancer at an early age, from
Speaker 2: like three to seven years old. And my mother in
Speaker 2: the seventies, she had to explain to me that there
Speaker 2: was going to be a lot of guys around that
Speaker 2: like to kiss other guys, right, you know. And there
Speaker 2: was a yeah, I'm going everything, and she said, look,
Speaker 2: there's a very good friend on the circuit. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: tap dancing circuit of New York City. I was on
Speaker 2: town I was town Hall singing Annie, Annie gets your guns,
Speaker 2: you know. But what happened was, you know, my mother
Speaker 2: would tell me, look, you know, you know your buddy Freddie, right,
Speaker 2: that's my good friend. I said, yes, of course, you know,
Speaker 2: Freddie likes to kiss guys. And I said, ow. She
Speaker 2: said to me, do you like my mother? Do you
Speaker 2: like to kiss other boys? I said, no, I like
Speaker 2: to kiss girls. And she said to me, good, she goes,
Speaker 2: just remember nobody's ever allowed to touch you, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right right, So and we'll go. We'll go later.
Speaker 2: I have two adult children, but I've told them the
Speaker 2: same thing. But so Anne. Anyway, we're kind of aware
Speaker 2: of all this, right, it's the seventies, even though it's
Speaker 2: you know, pedophilia, and all this stuff is all hidden.
Speaker 2: So one day we're working at the pizza place. We're
Speaker 2: about all twelve thirteen years old, and we can't even
Speaker 2: and believe me, I called people last two days trying
Speaker 2: to find out how this guy appeared in our lives,
Speaker 2: and we can't figure it out. But there was a guy, Mel,
Speaker 2: who used to come to the pizza place, who was
Speaker 2: friends with the owner, let's say. And we were all
Speaker 2: friendly there, and all of us were into wrestling. And
Speaker 2: one day somebody says, hey, you know, Mel sets up
Speaker 2: the ring or does something at Madison Square Garden and
Speaker 2: we were like, no way, hey, what's up? You know,
Speaker 2: So we start talking to him, and you know, I'm
Speaker 2: somewhat paraphrasing because this story happened to me and probably
Speaker 2: about eight other kids in the neighborhood, including the three
Speaker 2: I spoke to in the last couple of days to
Speaker 2: refresh everything. But this guy, Mel's a harmless looking black dude,
Speaker 2: you know, nothing like looking. He was like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: who wants to who wants to drive my car? You
Speaker 2: know what? And we were like, oh, okay, yeah, let's
Speaker 2: let's do it. You know, we're at that age you're like,
Speaker 2: come on, we'll go down there here, you know. And
Speaker 2: nobody thought anything of it. And then the second time
Speaker 2: we all did it, he said, whoever, whoever's doing the driver,
Speaker 2: next time, you gotta let me put you in a
Speaker 2: wrestling move with your foot. Oh no, right. It was like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, still maybe not too strange, you know.
Speaker 2: So my buddy gets in the front seat and he's
Speaker 2: about to drive. He goes, all right, give me a foot.
Speaker 2: So he gave him his right leg, and we're all noticing,
Speaker 2: because we're all seeing what's going on. He puts it
Speaker 2: between his grint. Oh, and he crosses his leg over
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't know what's going on really really,
Speaker 2: you know, but we know it's fucking completely strange, you know.
Speaker 2: But all of us did it like we did it
Speaker 2: all at least one time. Not that he had anything
Speaker 2: too sexual. There was never anything like, you know, a
Speaker 2: rape or anything. I know one of my other friends
Speaker 2: definitely got touched on his private parts. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: the crazy thing about this guy is he wasn't really charismatic.
Speaker 2: I think it was simply the fact that he was
Speaker 2: able to bring us places. You know, So the one
Speaker 2: day he comes and he's like, all right, who wants
Speaker 2: to go to the garden And we're like, all right,
Speaker 2: we'll go. And about five of us went, and we
Speaker 2: got to go to the ring as it was getting
Speaker 2: set up. And now we hear about the ring boys.
Speaker 2: You know, it's insane, you know that a guy like
Speaker 2: this was allowed either by fans because just like the
Speaker 2: priests and just like teachers, and just like you always
Speaker 2: know the guy who's the fuck up. Yep, this guy
Speaker 2: mel wasn't hiding in plain sight. Somebody knew. Somebody who's
Speaker 2: a father, somebody who's a wrestler, somebody's a man who's
Speaker 2: a racist who says that how come this black dude
Speaker 2: is with those kids all the time, Like somebody knew
Speaker 2: something with these things. You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well that's that's a lot. And I do
Speaker 4: want to ask you back, running back when we talked
Speaker 4: about that first offer of drive my car. So you
Speaker 4: guys are like, how old at this point?
Speaker 2: I think we're we're averaging twelve to thirteen, because that's
Speaker 2: when we all started at the uh at this pizza place,
Speaker 2: Sal's Pizzeria, a great place that's no longer there.
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, I can see at that age definitely being
Speaker 4: an intrigue by some adults write JP, let you try
Speaker 4: their car.
Speaker 5: I mean right, I mean that's yeah, some guys like
Speaker 5: coming over and say, hey, can you drive my my
Speaker 5: my vehicle? That's like at that age, I mean I
Speaker 5: would probably I probably would have been I mean definitely
Speaker 5: was a pussy when I was you know, that age.
Speaker 5: I would have been horrified, probably ran the other direction
Speaker 5: and and cried myself to sleep. But like that's that's
Speaker 5: crazy to think that. I mean, I mean, I'm just
Speaker 5: trying to fathom, like, what the idea did he know
Speaker 5: that you were guys with that age. I mean, it's
Speaker 5: that's kind of.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely this is this is a controlled thing that
Speaker 2: he probably did in twelve cities. Like I didn't look
Speaker 2: completely to see how many cities he was with them
Speaker 2: if he was just the East coast with this wrestling thing.
Speaker 2: But I can imagine he was so good at this
Speaker 2: because it's so easy, you know, it really was, especially
Speaker 2: like let's say, even city kids, it's not like we're done,
Speaker 2: but maybe in a smaller town. Hey, guys, you want
Speaker 2: to take a ride in my car? You know. And
Speaker 2: by the way, the car was a like a like
Speaker 2: a like a seventy nine Chevrolet, a station wagon, you know, wow.
Speaker 2: And it was like three of us were in the back,
Speaker 2: two of us were in the front, you know. Oh,
Speaker 2: And that was the other kind of sort of weird thing.
Speaker 2: So there would be somebody in the middle and then
Speaker 2: him on the drive on the passenger side. So the
Speaker 2: person who had to do the leg went over the
Speaker 2: other because you short, I had to do it.
Speaker 5: That's crazy, you know.
Speaker 2: Now here's another quick story. So one of my friends
Speaker 2: is doing it, it gets the leg move, bah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. We're all talking about. He goes, that
Speaker 2: was weird, man, I go, yeah, I know, right, I know,
Speaker 2: I said it because I did it once, I said,
Speaker 2: I think I felt as nuts Oh my god, Oh
Speaker 2: my god. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I should really
Speaker 2: add to the story with this, so you know what
Speaker 2: kind of abuse it was. It wasn't just grabbing my foot.
Speaker 2: He took no, he didn't take off our socks, but
Speaker 2: he took off our shoes to do the move.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm ashamed to say I was going to
Speaker 4: ask you for that detail because I'm trying to picture this.
Speaker 4: So this is happening in the front seat of the car,
Speaker 4: You're saying.
Speaker 2: While everybody's there, And it's not even like all right, guys,
Speaker 2: you go over there and I'm gonna grab this guy's
Speaker 2: fast in full yep, in full plain view of everybody,
Speaker 2: like there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 4: So the car, the cars parked somewhere, and yeah, yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 2: It was literally like parked in front of the pizza place.
Speaker 2: All right, who's first? You know? Sometimes he goes, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do you. You know, I'm gonna do JP
Speaker 2: and PJ, you two are first, and then the rest
Speaker 2: of you go later. And then we were get in
Speaker 2: the car. So so that happened. And then one day
Speaker 2: my friend he gets the he gets the move on
Speaker 2: the leg and he and and he's putting a shoe
Speaker 2: back on. He goes like, my ankle, heart's really bad. Like,
Speaker 2: oh man, all right, because you want I said, you
Speaker 2: want to be driving, because now I'll drive, I'll be
Speaker 2: all right. So he saw him pulling out and mel says,
Speaker 2: go ahead, go fast, no faster. So he goes faster
Speaker 2: and he tries to make a left hand turn and
Speaker 2: we lose control. Why we go crashing into a warehouse wall.
Speaker 4: Did the cops come?
Speaker 2: No? We all go flying. The front of the car
Speaker 2: was like it was one of those old you know tanks,
Speaker 2: you know, and uh no, the cops didn't come. But
Speaker 2: that was kind of like weird because he's like, man,
Speaker 2: my ankle really hurt. I think he was doing something
Speaker 2: weird to me. And we talked about it more at
Speaker 2: that point, and then about maybe about a couple of
Speaker 2: months later, we didn't see him at all ever again
Speaker 2: ever again. And let me say this, the other thing
Speaker 2: that I was telling you about going to the garden,
Speaker 2: that was amazing because we actually as soon as the
Speaker 2: ring guys finished it, we were allowed to go there.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was a half hour, maybe it was ten minutes.
Speaker 2: We got to bang off the thing. I got to
Speaker 2: go to the top of the ring and jump off. Really,
Speaker 2: you know, Oh, it was amazing. It was the whole
Speaker 2: experience was amazing. It was a shame that that's something.
Speaker 2: And now I'm reading these stories and and anybody who's
Speaker 2: out there that that's possibly being triggered by this, I
Speaker 2: just wanted you to understand my laughter about it is
Speaker 2: probably a self mechanism that I've had my whole existence.
Speaker 2: So if you're out there listening to, like somebody who
Speaker 2: who really got abused, you know it's I got you know,
Speaker 2: listen in my erat my penis got touched a couple
Speaker 2: of times. The guy tried to put his penis in
Speaker 2: my mind mouth one time when I was younger. But
Speaker 2: people who really got abuse, who are listening today, I
Speaker 2: want you to know, like it's not a funny matter,
Speaker 2: and we're there for you, you know, the show here,
Speaker 2: these guys, they're bringing this up for a reason. They
Speaker 2: want you to feel comfortable talking about it to somebody,
Speaker 2: because it is painful. And I'm in my fifties and
Speaker 2: I'm still talking about it thirty forty years later. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and maybe it just happened to you. Maybe there's a
Speaker 2: fifteen year old that's been listening to this show for
Speaker 2: a little bit and he's out there. He doesn't know
Speaker 2: what to do, but you know, call the show, contact us,
Speaker 2: there's some help for you. He's a lapsed fan wrestling
Speaker 2: podcast with Jack and Corn, SEO and JPISO.
Speaker 4: He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast. PJ tell us you
Speaker 4: were how you were thinking what seventy late seventies on
Speaker 4: this when this was happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, seventies, early early eighties, seventeen. I'm thinking like seventy
Speaker 2: nine to eighty two, like around there those times.
Speaker 4: You know, So listeners should know that as we you know,
Speaker 4: as you looked into it, because you had mentioned because
Speaker 4: you were talking to Ray knowing that we were coming
Speaker 4: about your wrestling memories and you bring up this this
Speaker 4: this guy in this part of the story that you remember.
Speaker 4: But you had no idea, right that this was such
Speaker 4: a big wrestling scandal.
Speaker 2: You had no idea, right, So you know right now,
Speaker 2: in my life, you know, wrestling is not as as
Speaker 2: a major part as my friend Ray Goots. Ray has
Speaker 2: a little podcast that he does. He's friends with you guys.
Speaker 2: He goes to these Wrestling Masters matches, he buys the paraphernalia.
Speaker 2: He loves this, right, So I told him, Hey, we're
Speaker 2: doing this wrestling show and they said, hey, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And I told him a story. I said, hey, right,
Speaker 2: you know, we used to be in wrestling, into this
Speaker 2: and that, and there was this guy Mel who used
Speaker 2: to give us weird massages. And Ray goes, what Mel?
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, I go why, He goes, Oh, man,
Speaker 2: you don't know what's going on. And I did the
Speaker 2: Google search, and you know, I know he's gone since
Speaker 2: twenty twelve or whatever. But it's a horrible story that
Speaker 2: this has happened to a bunch of community. I mean,
Speaker 2: Maryland is where where the lawsuit is, but I'm assuming
Speaker 2: it should be in every city up and down the
Speaker 2: East coast.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The read there is that Maryland has a looser statute
Speaker 4: of limitations on this kind of stuff. So that's like
Speaker 4: one of the jurisdictions where you still have a chance
Speaker 4: as too much time hasn't passed by the state law.
Speaker 4: But I think you're exactly right. Yeah, there was you know,
Speaker 4: there were claims against him in the early nineties. There
Speaker 4: was a you know, they would call him ring boys,
Speaker 4: These kids. They wouldn't just be picked up and brought
Speaker 4: to the show, but they would actually get sort of
Speaker 4: part time jobs with the WWF. They would help set
Speaker 4: up rings and things like that. There was a kid
Speaker 4: named Tom Cole who was who went public with a
Speaker 4: series of allegations and I believe nineteen ninety one the
Speaker 4: early nineties that WWF had had to battle, you know,
Speaker 4: Vince getting asked about it on Larry King Live and
Speaker 4: all this stuff, and you know, they were trying to
Speaker 4: create some distance from Meil Phillips and trying to you know,
Speaker 4: put him in a different category than somebody that they
Speaker 4: had as an employee. But yeah, your story echoes across
Speaker 4: any wrestling fan who's heard of this thing big time.
Speaker 4: And and so yeah, you're reading this, and what are
Speaker 4: you thinking as you're seeing this this fact pattern emerge.
Speaker 2: I called up a couple of friends to make sure
Speaker 2: everybody was kind of horderbakay, right, because it's the shock first, sure,
Speaker 2: and then you think, okay, let me ask the three
Speaker 2: friends or four friends that are still around me make
Speaker 2: sure that they weren't attacks. And you know, nobody was,
Speaker 2: you know, because we're close enough and in our fifties,
Speaker 2: now that we would have said, yeah, you know what
Speaker 2: the guy, like I said, the one guy, you know,
Speaker 2: I felt Mel's ball. Well that's as far as I went.
Speaker 4: Right, you know, but you weren't sure about all your friends.
Speaker 2: Right, right, So before I wanted, you know, I took
Speaker 2: it really easy. I like, look, I'm gonna be on
Speaker 2: this show. I gotta ask you a few questions. You know,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be okay with this, you know, and and
Speaker 2: even like we said, with what we should say about
Speaker 2: this show, like some of the things that we're saying.
Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing about when women get abused,
Speaker 2: right when when women get abused, they hold it in
Speaker 2: and it affects them. But when a man gets abused,
Speaker 2: especially by another man, it's it's much deeper. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: scars in us can can take us and ruin relationships
Speaker 2: for tens and twenties, thirty years. So you know, this
Speaker 2: kind of control, I it pisces me off, right because again,
Speaker 2: people know that there was a problem. Yes, so I
Speaker 2: know we're talking about thirty years ago, but you know, look,
Speaker 2: it's it's horrible what happened to the uh to the
Speaker 2: what we'll call it the you know, like the the people,
Speaker 2: the girls who the gymnastics.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, the doctor.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like you think about these things. You know,
Speaker 2: there's there's a guy. Oh my god, here I go
Speaker 2: with the leffing. There's guys. There's a guy in New
Speaker 2: York City and proctologists that was like doing stuff the
Speaker 2: guys with their fingers. And now there's a huge lawsuit
Speaker 2: on the radio everything did you have you been ever
Speaker 2: treated by doctor dubblebo? Right?
Speaker 4: The post headline rights itself to begin with, it's true.
Speaker 2: I mean you have to post. You're a post up
Speaker 2: there or mine here, and they're both the sh So
Speaker 2: when this guy, now, you know, I would have loved
Speaker 2: to be able to confront him in a way. And
Speaker 2: you know, because it's you know, I don't feel weird
Speaker 2: about it, like I'm saying it to you somewhat. But again,
Speaker 2: my abuse is whatever is in my head. It wasn't
Speaker 2: bad enough for me to continually think about it. It's
Speaker 2: almost like understood a story of like, oh remember when
Speaker 2: we got you know, finger, you know, foot held by
Speaker 2: that guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just it was just outside of and
Speaker 4: and from what I understand, you know, it in some cases,
Speaker 4: it did get more graduated than that with some With
Speaker 4: some kids, I think that, you know, you can find
Speaker 4: allegations like that, But but in terms of that, I
Speaker 4: can understand what you mean because it's like, at that
Speaker 4: age it doesn't even really seem necessarily sexual. And I
Speaker 4: think that's kind of if I'm reading all the things
Speaker 4: that people are saying about what happened correctly or people
Speaker 4: are alledging happen, that's kind of like how he started.
Speaker 4: You know, these things that you hear the same thing
Speaker 4: about a lot of celebrities that get involved with allegations
Speaker 4: like this. You know, it doesn't necessarily start as overly sexual.
Speaker 4: So when this is you know, when this is happening
Speaker 4: in the car and things like that, is he part
Speaker 4: Pardon me for asking this, but I'm trying to figure
Speaker 4: out like how it hits you guys in terms of
Speaker 4: how he's acting. Is he like playing it like straight,
Speaker 4: like you look at his face and you don't you
Speaker 4: can't tell he's getting any gratification out of this, or
Speaker 4: is it like he is sort of signaling to you
Speaker 4: that this this is why he's doing this.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess my first thing is when I
Speaker 2: got in the car one day he was totally naked.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, that's that's a.
Speaker 4: Oh hey man, I don't know. I don't know how
Speaker 4: much we're gonna unearthlier in this conversation. So maybe I
Speaker 4: was sorry, you're buried the lead there. If that was
Speaker 4: the case, Oh my god, that was wow.
Speaker 2: He was in a red flamingos suit and hard audiena
Speaker 2: you know what, man, Like I think one of my buddies,
Speaker 2: like he was a little bigger than us and he
Speaker 2: was like fifteen. He's like, I'm gonna kick his ass. Man,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, go for what what did he you know?
Speaker 2: What did he do? And it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: this is like who this is weird. I'm not going
Speaker 2: back into the car anymore. You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah he could tell, but yeah he could tell.
Speaker 2: Like they look, I don't even know if I can
Speaker 2: hear something about it, Like was it sexual for him? Yes, immediately,
Speaker 2: But again, sexual and dominance and all of that to
Speaker 2: people like that is what they get off on. Was
Speaker 2: it getting off on a thirteen year old kid because
Speaker 2: he grabbed his foot? Was it the pain that he
Speaker 2: gave us? Was it the control of the pain squeezing
Speaker 2: the foot, letting it go, squeezing the foot? Was it
Speaker 2: because it was between his cock and he was getting excited? Right?
Speaker 2: You know I didn't look enough into him even for
Speaker 2: this story. I apologize. I really should have to see
Speaker 2: a family. Was he was he a father? Was he
Speaker 2: an uncle? Was he a you know, let's find out
Speaker 2: about this guy, you know, because listen, you know, let
Speaker 2: me just say this. There's probably let's say, not in
Speaker 2: my group, but if he did this, let's ass whom
Speaker 2: he did this every city up and down, wherever they
Speaker 2: went to, what worked? This was the www WW. So
Speaker 2: let's say wherever they go, there's some town that there
Speaker 2: was one or two guys that were like, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go beat I'm gonna go meet mel Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let him up, I'm gonna let him rub
Speaker 2: my foot, and I'm gonna go sit in the front
Speaker 2: row and watch a championship wrestling.
Speaker 4: Match, right, you know, right right?
Speaker 2: So you know, he's definitely somebody. These other people who
Speaker 2: have been abused, you know, hopefully they can get over it,
Speaker 2: but it's it's definitely in this society. People don't look
Speaker 2: at it now, like the way you know, they're more important.
Speaker 2: It's more important now than it was twenty five thirty
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that's kind of what the environment that
Speaker 4: allowed him to keep doing it over and over again.
Speaker 4: I mean, we'd like to think that if someone tried
Speaker 4: to do something like this today, they'd be found out
Speaker 4: so quickly as opposed to having the environment where they
Speaker 4: could keep doing it. Did you have the impression, PJ,
Speaker 4: that he that he picked the pizza parlor for any
Speaker 4: particular reason that you guys hung out at. You think
Speaker 4: like he lived around there. I'm not even sure like
Speaker 4: where he lived, And it sounds to me when you
Speaker 4: told the story like he was sort of like just
Speaker 4: coming to the pizza shop anyway, as opposed to being
Speaker 4: on the prow. Well, I don't know how to think
Speaker 4: about that.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing, right the way you said that,
Speaker 2: and again I kind of know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: but don't. But even the way you just said that,
Speaker 2: I feel a guy like the him always on the
Speaker 2: prow got it right, because that's the type of that person.
Speaker 2: Is he went to get a piece of pizza. Maybe
Speaker 2: he was a Jehovah witness. There used to be a
Speaker 2: huge Jehovah witness place that's still there on my block
Speaker 2: in Sunnyside took over a huge movie theater that was
Speaker 2: there since the twenties called the Bliss Theater. So maybe
Speaker 2: he was a Jehovah witness. Maybe he came driving from LaGuardia.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe he used to go to Sunnyside Gardens
Speaker 2: and was and knows the pizza place, you know, because
Speaker 2: the Sunnyside Gardens didn't get out of there untill the eighties,
Speaker 2: the building itself. So maybe it's all of that. And
Speaker 2: and when when when you think about that, where do
Speaker 2: where do where do you? Where do you see people?
Speaker 2: You know, you'll see them at a pizza place? And
Speaker 2: if you see a whole bunch of kids, maybe he
Speaker 2: just goes in there and starts talking to the owner. Hey,
Speaker 2: how you doing. Oh my name is mel I do
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the kids love wrestling. Hey, PJ. Come on, yeah,
Speaker 2: got it? Go go go say helo to this guy. Right,
Speaker 2: it's it's not like, oh what, it's like, oh what
Speaker 2: do you do? All right? Oh? You like you guys
Speaker 2: like wrestling? Yeah, oh you should come to the You
Speaker 2: should come to the garden one time and see Bob
Speaker 2: Backlan and this one or that one. Wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2: You know? And again I'm not saying it like I'm
Speaker 2: some naive kids. So you know, I had no no
Speaker 2: father growing up, no brothers and sisters. I had a mother,
Speaker 2: was five ten, one hundred and sixty pounds, solid, big
Speaker 2: Irish woman, didn't take shift from nobody like. That was
Speaker 2: the other thing. I was protected because I think even
Speaker 2: guys who probably wanted to try to rape me were like, oh,
Speaker 2: if I do, I'm gonna have to deal with his mother.
Speaker 2: So no, I'd rather not.
Speaker 4: Wow. Did you talk to her about it ever? Your mom?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, after we kind of I was like because
Speaker 2: she was like, oh, I was that wrestling thing, you know,
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, this is kind of this
Speaker 2: kind of strange he goes and she's like, oh, that
Speaker 2: is kind of strange. Maybe you shouldn't do that, you know,
Speaker 2: does it hurt your foot? And I was like yeah,
Speaker 2: she goes, yeah, maybe that's not a good idea. And
Speaker 2: then I was like, wait, is it like you don't
Speaker 2: say the way she just said it just because it
Speaker 2: hurt my foot. Jeves must have been reading into every
Speaker 2: line that I'm saying going instead of going what she
Speaker 2: usually would do. She might even say, hey, hey, dummy,
Speaker 2: get your foot out of the black dudes crash and
Speaker 2: don't go in the car anymore, you know, But she
Speaker 2: kind of said it like in such a way that
Speaker 2: it was like, hey, man, get out of that car.
Speaker 2: Don't go back to this idiot.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, sort of like a suggestion that wouldn't set
Speaker 4: off too many alarms. But like you said, you realized
Speaker 4: there was more to it than just you know, that
Speaker 4: could be trouble.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like she was kind of reading the situation because
Speaker 4: so this only he only got you in once or
Speaker 4: did it happen multiple times? As far as going to
Speaker 4: the matches with him?
Speaker 2: Going to the matches? We went? If I went three times?
Speaker 2: If I can remember?
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, so and you're saying three times you
Speaker 4: went with him or a.
Speaker 2: Bunch of people like like he would he would sometimes
Speaker 2: come by the the pizza place at like five o'clock
Speaker 2: and whoever was there. It's like, who wants to take
Speaker 2: a ride to the city, Yes, yes, and go check
Speaker 2: this out. It's like, oh, I'll go, I'm here, got it, Hey,
Speaker 2: I use it? Can I use the phone. I got
Speaker 2: to call my mom. Hey, I'm going I'm going to
Speaker 2: the city. Okay, when do you be back? What time
Speaker 2: we'll be back? Probably eleven o'clock, you know.
Speaker 5: And that was the time you said three times you
Speaker 5: went in with him.
Speaker 2: Three times? I think, yeah, I'm trying to really like
Speaker 2: it's a kind of thing because I've been to the
Speaker 2: wrestling so many times, but specifically I think three times.
Speaker 2: Two times we really did like jumped on the on
Speaker 2: the we got to jump on the ring and the
Speaker 2: ring and everything. And then the third time we just
Speaker 2: got to go.
Speaker 4: Right, does he have like an entrance to the building,
Speaker 4: Like how do you make the approach? Like he doesn't
Speaker 4: just walk in the front door? Like what's that like?
Speaker 4: Like arriving with somebody that's kind of giving you that
Speaker 4: that VIP treatment.
Speaker 2: Well, we all had to wear like these little white
Speaker 2: hats and suck on lollipops before we were in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that that should have set off some alarms. But okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm starting to say.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, you're right. I was said to myself, Damn,
Speaker 2: that was my first thing. There was a garage. Actually,
Speaker 2: if you if you know the garden, there's it's it's
Speaker 2: the same setup, like it's closed off. Now they've made
Speaker 2: a like a no pedestrian pathway. But on thirty third
Speaker 2: Street you used to be able to like drive right
Speaker 2: down below the thing. So I'm remembering that. And then
Speaker 2: like two of the other times we actually like like, oh,
Speaker 2: meet us over there, and we would meet him like
Speaker 2: at a side gate kind of thing.
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, it was a meet us there thing,
Speaker 4: as opposed to he drives you there, Well, he drives
Speaker 4: you there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say one time we got driven.
Speaker 2: I remember all of us were in the car, Hey,
Speaker 2: he wants to go. And then another time we got
Speaker 2: in the car again, and I think the third time
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, we're gonna go see mel once again
Speaker 2: on the train. Let's go, and a bunch of us
Speaker 2: went and met him at the gate.
Speaker 4: Got it? Got it? Okay, that's understand now, because you know,
Speaker 4: I'm in my mind, I'm thinking, like, you know, how
Speaker 4: obvious is this to people around that this guy is
Speaker 4: like a pied piper being followed by six seven teenage
Speaker 4: boys all the time. To your point about someone had
Speaker 4: to know. I'm trying to picture how you know obvious
Speaker 4: it was?
Speaker 5: Perhaps, but I mean that's also part of the problem
Speaker 5: is that people probably did know, and it's like it's
Speaker 5: a it's a really almost a systemic type of situation
Speaker 5: where it's like, well, okay, you know, just gonna there
Speaker 5: goes Mel. Mel's doing his thing.
Speaker 2: Now again, I've said the black guy five or six
Speaker 2: and seven times. So if there's any brothers out there
Speaker 2: who think I'm a racist, I'm not. I'm a realist.
Speaker 2: There's a big difference when you're in the fifties you
Speaker 2: grew up in In my neighborhood, we had everybody I
Speaker 2: have And when I say I have black friends, I
Speaker 2: mean that I have the people that I talk to.
Speaker 2: These are these are childhood friends. We have Spanish, and
Speaker 2: and and Italian and every race that Indian doing in
Speaker 2: my neighborhood. We have all of it. But when I
Speaker 2: say this the way you just asked me that question,
Speaker 2: let me ask you a question. If you're a WWF,
Speaker 2: you're a wrestler, you're getting your clothes on and you
Speaker 2: see Mel, the black dude walking in with five white
Speaker 2: kids with shorts and T shirts, you know you don't
Speaker 2: ask a question, well, what is this? Just like you said,
Speaker 2: Pied Piper, what is it? What is happening here?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, well, it's clear that he's not you know,
Speaker 4: perhaps it's clear that he's not someone's dad, you know,
Speaker 4: or someone's brother, or whatever the case might be. But
Speaker 4: it's also I think I think it's useful for identification
Speaker 4: because there weren't I don't think any I can't think
Speaker 4: of another black wrestling announcer because he worked as an
Speaker 4: announcer or he was ringside in that time period. So
Speaker 4: when we're thinking, you know, when someone like yourself like
Speaker 4: I remember that guy to say the black guy puts
Speaker 4: you right there, you know exactly that we're talking about
Speaker 4: the same guy, which I think is part of the
Speaker 4: reason that that that's useful shorthand in the situation. But no,
Speaker 4: I totally, I totally take your point. Did you said
Speaker 4: a couple of times, you know, then your mom was
Speaker 4: asking you did it hurt? And things like that, So
Speaker 4: I really understand that, you know, he's literally putting the
Speaker 4: you know, you and your friend's feet in his crotch.
Speaker 4: But is he like try to pretend it's like a
Speaker 4: wrestling thing and also like grabbing the foot with his
Speaker 4: hand and twisting like how did it hurt in that way.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to picture like if you tried to you know,
Speaker 4: mask it is like wrestling fooling around, or if it
Speaker 4: was just like as gratuitous as it.
Speaker 2: Sounds, it definitely sounds like you're getting off on this.
Speaker 2: By the way, Well.
Speaker 4: That's this is going to have to be my last
Speaker 4: question on that front for fear of coming off that way.
Speaker 4: But you know, these are the questions others don't ask you, Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love it. I love it, but you
Speaker 2: know I will tell you that. You know, that's what
Speaker 2: I was saying, right because I think of the pain.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I was like wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. Like like when he says, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put you in a wrestling movie. There was
Speaker 2: that was it. I'm going to give you a wrestling move.
Speaker 2: If you wanted, you got to take this wrestling move, okay,
Speaker 2: and he did it. He would like he would take
Speaker 2: his left hand like again, right, It's it's kind of
Speaker 2: weird because I'm I'm, I'm. There was one of those
Speaker 2: you know, it was a long bench kind of thing, right,
Speaker 2: so they weren't bucket seats. It's the old fashioned you know,
Speaker 2: what did I say before the long cars station wagon, ye,
Speaker 2: station wagon. Right, so you know those fronts right, it's
Speaker 2: three right, there's like you can so so so somebody
Speaker 2: for me specifically, there wasn't anybody in the front. We
Speaker 2: had my three buddies in the back. I take my
Speaker 2: left leg. There might have been a little hump or something.
Speaker 2: So now before the car starts, my left leg is over.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do it, and now it's over, and
Speaker 2: now he's grabbed it, and now I'm twisted. So so
Speaker 2: now everybody you can you can envision this. I'm in
Speaker 2: the driver's seat, I'm looking forward. I take my left leg,
Speaker 2: I move it to the right to the passenger side
Speaker 2: where this man is seated. He takes my foot and
Speaker 2: twist it in such a way that now my body
Speaker 2: is contoured completely to the left towards the door. Right.
Speaker 2: So now I'm I'm weirdly looking away from him. My
Speaker 2: foot is in his crotch and he's putting on a
Speaker 2: move by his left hand under pushing down into the
Speaker 2: crotch and then doing something squeezing the toes going forward.
Speaker 2: Got it, you know, and and sometimes you do, you know,
Speaker 2: we make you do it for a minute sometimes you know,
Speaker 2: you yell too loud. He let you go, but it
Speaker 2: was weird. You know. It's like again like I guess
Speaker 2: after oh, let's do it. Yeah that was that was fun,
Speaker 2: and then the next time it's like, like, for instance,
Speaker 2: this guy blew it. If he if he would have
Speaker 2: done it softer, we would have we would have all
Speaker 2: been there like for three weeks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that that's kind of that. That's why I
Speaker 4: asked the question because it was like, I'm trying to
Speaker 4: like understand how it didn't immediately set off like this
Speaker 4: guy that's hurts like fuck this, you know, but that's
Speaker 4: this This now starts to make sense to me in
Speaker 4: terms of how he would kind of gradually go to
Speaker 4: that weird place. Like you said, it happened you know,
Speaker 4: three times, so you guys got the hint eventually.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I was going to say, I don't know
Speaker 5: if you mentioned before and I forget, but like, what
Speaker 5: made did he stop coming to you? Did you guys
Speaker 5: stop decide no, we don't want to do this anymore,
Speaker 5: or what was like what what kind of stopped it
Speaker 5: after three weeks?
Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of such that like
Speaker 2: maybe we all started you know, I have this thing
Speaker 2: in my head that my my guy was he was
Speaker 2: an Italian from Sicily, the owner of the place. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and salad Tommy to it. And I really feel and
Speaker 2: you know, now that I'm talking about it, I'm even
Speaker 2: saying it out loud, strongly, strongly to you too, because
Speaker 2: you're only two that listening to me right now, except
Speaker 2: the rest of the fans. But the fans will understand
Speaker 2: that this place in Queen's was a really family place
Speaker 2: and we all work there, and we all bought pizza there,
Speaker 2: and it was like there was two pizza places in
Speaker 2: the whole neighborhood. It was that place in another place,
Speaker 2: and we chose this one. So I think there was
Speaker 2: a combination of maybe, you know, people started complaining about it,
Speaker 2: all of us like, oh, I'm not going that, no,
Speaker 2: because we did. I remember saying, yeah, I'm not going
Speaker 2: you hurt my foot last time. You know, I'll come on,
Speaker 2: you know, your little your little redheaded pussy, come on.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, no, man, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that anymore, you know. And then and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you know, maybe a couple of us
Speaker 2: were talking about it, and maybe in my head. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm noticing that, you know, because Tommy and Steve, they
Speaker 2: were always there. Tommy would know, what are you guys
Speaker 2: talking about? What's going on? And maybe one of us
Speaker 2: said something and then because it was it was a
Speaker 2: sudden disappearance, like you know, maybe Tommy talked to him.
Speaker 2: Maybe he went a little further with one of the
Speaker 2: kids than usual and decided to hit the town.
Speaker 5: Yeah, crazy, I mean exactly, that totally makes sense.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: Still, if he noticed something like that, something that's kind
Speaker 5: of just a little bit off, he's uh, you know,
Speaker 5: I imagine he's gonna fuck with somebody.
Speaker 2: It's a little yeah, even if it's a little look,
Speaker 2: don't come around the more. I don't like what you're
Speaker 2: doing with my boys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: Did you know him as mel did you? Is that
Speaker 4: how he asked you you introduce himself to you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, I don't remember the Phillips thing,
Speaker 2: and I really can't remember too much of the the
Speaker 2: announcing things. You know, I thought he was at a
Speaker 2: different level in the organization, like that's a high level
Speaker 2: in a sense of things. You know. I'm wondering, like
Speaker 2: how that even happened. I even thought there was another
Speaker 2: I know what you said, and thank you actually for
Speaker 2: clarifying this, and here I go back to the thing again.
Speaker 2: But I thought, no, it can't. There must be a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of black dudes who had access like this.
Speaker 2: And it was like, when I talked to Ray, I
Speaker 2: was like, no way, man, there's too much of a
Speaker 2: coincidence that this and my story, you know, are different.
Speaker 2: You know they're the same, obviously, So no, I knew
Speaker 2: him as mal and that's all we knew.
Speaker 4: Did you have a sense that, in addition to being like,
Speaker 4: I guess this like vip at the wrestling company, what
Speaker 4: it actually is that he did, because to your point,
Speaker 4: fans would know him because at a certain point they
Speaker 4: put him in the ring as a ring announcer. I'm
Speaker 4: not sure that for the entirety of his time with
Speaker 4: that company that he was a ring announcer per se.
Speaker 4: What did you think he did for them?
Speaker 2: I think we all, literally, even though I think I
Speaker 2: even mentioned it earlier, I think we understood that he
Speaker 2: had something to do with setting up the ring.
Speaker 5: That's what it was, Okay, That's where it all happened.
Speaker 5: It was ring Boys was the thing, right, it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Ring Boys is like the shortthand version of the
Speaker 4: how to refer to the scandal, the Ring Boys scandal,
Speaker 4: because that was sort of yeah, yeah, well man, this
Speaker 4: is I really really appreciate you talking about it and
Speaker 4: keeping it as light as can be.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: That's that's the tricky balance, you know as a comedian,
Speaker 4: like there's there's comedy, gold and tragedy. But what a
Speaker 4: hard balance to strike to talk about it with a
Speaker 4: smile on your face, you know. At the same time,
Speaker 4: it's almost I wonder like when you see this and
Speaker 4: you see like that lawsuits came of it, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people came forward, like does it make you
Speaker 4: feel differently about what happened or do you still kind
Speaker 4: of you know, you feel the same, and it's just
Speaker 4: like this these other experiences just are sort of foreigned,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Does it make you think, wow,
Speaker 4: that that might have been more fucked up than even
Speaker 4: I realized?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I'm not a person that wants to be
Speaker 2: retigious and right right, and you know, but yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: my one buddy, the guy who did the crashing, he's
Speaker 2: the one who said he goes man, we should be sewing.
Speaker 2: We should have sued, you know, so, so yeah, like
Speaker 2: and it's also a pissed off kind of thing, and
Speaker 2: like like, right now, the two of you have to
Speaker 2: send me a VEMO of thirty eight dollars because I
Speaker 2: have to go to therapy now because.
Speaker 4: You bought years, we do paid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I hope you are fans of the show
Speaker 2: appreciate what I'm bringing to you to you all today.
Speaker 2: I love the show. I love the idea of listened
Speaker 2: to a bunch of the episodes to see you guys.
Speaker 2: And but yeah, it's it's it's something that thank god,
Speaker 2: it wasn't as painful as some of these other dudes
Speaker 2: are dealing with, right Yeah, And I'm in the sense that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because so many people when they, you know, when
Speaker 5: they deal with sexual abuse like this, I mean, they
Speaker 5: go to all different lengths that could be addiction or
Speaker 5: any other kind of abuse on their end, or suicide,
Speaker 5: you know. So it's it's really it's amazing that you're
Speaker 5: not only here talking about it, but that you're able
Speaker 5: to again say, talk about it with such good spirits essentially,
Speaker 5: you know, and and and make light of it as
Speaker 5: best you can.
Speaker 2: Well again, I'll lend it at this on my part
Speaker 2: about this particular object is you know, people out there,
Speaker 2: if you have especially men, if you have a situation
Speaker 2: and you've been holding it in for a month, a year,
Speaker 2: ten years, do yourself a favor in everybody around you.
Speaker 2: Go talk to somebody, because more than likely, I'm throwing
Speaker 2: out the statistic, it's probably bullshit. Seven out of ten
Speaker 2: people have probably been touched in some way. And you're
Speaker 2: not alone, and we're here and there's somebody out there
Speaker 2: who will listen, whether it's a priest, a rabbi, or
Speaker 2: this show. You have to stop what's happening, because that's
Speaker 2: what happens they you allow that person, You allow fucking
Speaker 2: nell to be in your head, and you start drinking
Speaker 2: and you have relationship problems and was I gay? Am
Speaker 2: I straight? Because this guy hit on me? You know,
Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of shit that happens with abuse.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean I'm getting a little deep under
Speaker 2: this flo it's you have to realize that if you
Speaker 2: have that out there, if one of your listeners has
Speaker 2: any situation, there is a call for you. There is
Speaker 2: somebody that's listening. I'm an email away. The show is
Speaker 2: an email away to you people and break the cycle.
Speaker 2: Break the cycle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's that's powerful stuff.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks for going down those roads with us, and
Speaker 4: we look forward seeing you. It's going to get a
Speaker 4: lot lighter, I can assure folks August third at the
Speaker 4: at Comedy Village. But really a pleasure to talk to you, PJ.
Speaker 4: Can't wait to collaborate further here coming up in August
Speaker 4: and take care man.
Speaker 2: You guys are fantastic. Thanks to the fans, and we'll
Speaker 2: see you August third.
Speaker 4: This email it is a production of the Lab Entertainment Group.
Speaker 5: Its content is intended for reven use only.
Speaker 2: We want