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Speaker 1: Somebody dot TV New Metal aid a strong style, sa Son,

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you're gonna ring a ball water you going over the

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top like talking about Salon.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's the laps fan man number one in the ring.

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Speaker 1: Forget about Osada with a real king of swing when

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the bell goes in and the kicked like men throwing

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in the corner with its rash like sting. Even Jerry

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King and take off the crowd nodded in his head

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like his tean low Brown were just getting low down.

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Speaker 2: For the goat even higher flipping you on your head.

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Speaker 1: But you no cool drive more knowledge and dragon spits fire.

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Give you more shot than when the air tree tire

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dropping more truth than the con of sniper.

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Speaker 3: Bless you with a coconut Roddy Piper checking JP.

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Speaker 2: He like j y D drop the cupcakes and got

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the brain.

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Speaker 3: Bove means the best podcast frost start to close cloud

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if you all better fit this flaw sick and polls well.

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Speaker 4: By Now you know and in case you don't, It's

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August third, ty Noon Comedy Village Tie Square, not a

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fucking game. The Lapsed Fan Live. We take to the

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stage smack dab in the middle of the biggest and

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first to night SummerSlam in WWE history, Because you know, Boss,

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there's just sometimes you've got to gather wrestling fans around

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and just have a talk about why it is we're

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still watching this stuff if none of it's.

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Speaker 5: Real, listen and why? And where better? But what better

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place to do it than in the middle of New

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York City on fucking Broadway. Essentially all right, taking care,

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taking care of business the way we do there.

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Speaker 4: It goes the neighborhood, you know the deal Comedy Village

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dot com for tickets, please join us as we bring

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together the Laps. And this is huge because we're joined

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now by the proprietor of Seid Establishment, someone really in

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the firmament of New York City comedy and we're really

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privileged to work with him. Coming up on August third

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PJ Landers Season New York comedian, actor, writer, owner of

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the Comedy Village. Is he your ton of experience in

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the industry and a queen's boy.

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Speaker 5: PJ.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the Labs.

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Speaker 2: Fan, Thank you guys for having me. I'm so excited

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to be here.

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Speaker 4: So first get our listeners. If you could acquainted with

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the history of the venue. This is a really cool

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place that we're going to be playing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're excited to have you. I mean, we're coming

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from a friend of ours, Ray, who always is a

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comedy and wrestling fan since I've known him, Ray Goots,

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and he introduced me to you guys, And this place

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is exciting. We're in the heart of the village, excuse me,

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your heart of Times Square right now on West forty

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forth Street, just like a couple of blocks from the

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train station and the bus station, so it's real easy

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to get to. And I've been doing comedy for over

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thirty years in New York City. We originally started on

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West third Street at a place called the Boston Comedy Club.

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I know now a bunch of of your fans will

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know this because this is the place where Dave Chappelle started,

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Louis c. K started, David tel started. Is more all

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the guys we know.

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Speaker 5: Now, isn't there a little bit of irony that there's

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a Boston, that there's the Boston Comedy Club in New

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York given the sports rivalries of the of the cities.

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Speaker 2: It's so great that you say that because the guy

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who started it was a guy named Barry Katz. Okay,

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Barry Katz was from Boston and there was another company

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called New York Comedy Club, so he wanted to put

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a twist on it. That's how many people thought it

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was stupid. They're like, what a stupid idea for the

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Boston Comedy Club on West third Street. But you know what,

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it was genius because everybody talked about it, and now

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we're talking about it forty years later.

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Speaker 5: Amzing.

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Speaker 2: But I got very lucky. Barry was deciding to go

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out to Los Angeles and they were going to close

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the club, and I had no experience running a full

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time club, but this was two thousand and five, and

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they said, hey, do you want to do it? And

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we took gover and within a year we were successful.

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We had Chappelle, who had just come out of like

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Recluse with the with the whole Chapelle show thing. He

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came down to our place one night and he performed

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for the first time that anybody had ever seen him

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do it. He performed for four hours on my stage.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Wow, so this is this is hollowed ground. That's wild. Well,

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we're a couple, we're both Bostonians PJ. And we grew

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up going to the New York Comedy Club. No, I'm

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kidding it. We could we can switch to the switch

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the joke around.

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Speaker 5: You know, we do.

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Speaker 4: We do a thing where we find a wrestler has

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been in a movie, okay, and we review the movie.

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We call it qualifying for one of the shows we

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do if there's a wrestler involved somehow, or if it's

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about a wrestler. You know, by virtue of working with us,

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you might help qualify Spike Lee's She's Got to Have

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It because I understand that you played a role. Perhaps

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there can you tell us about that film, maybe it'll

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help us qualify that great picture.

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Speaker 2: Well it's that was actually the series that was on Netflix.

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Speaker 4: Oh got it?

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was a little bit different.

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I actually played a nice, nice, good old Spike Lee

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racist cop.

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Speaker 4: How how how naturally did that come to you? I'm kidding,

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but no, no, it's it's it's funny.

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Speaker 2: It's because listen in my neighborhood, Sunnyside Woodside, which let

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me tell you, and you'll tell me when to stop.

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Speaker 4: And I'll please go ahead.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I'll be listening to you carefully to

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uh to break in obviously I'm not going to be

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talking the whole time. But I grew up in Sunnyside Woodside. Now,

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for a bunch of wrestling fans out there, you'll know,

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Sunnyside Gardens is a world famous place, and I lived

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there and I actually got That's where I first got

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my taste for wrestling from from you know, undercards, And

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I don't even note of the names that I saw.

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And we'll talk about the big guys later, but none

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of the names that I saw I can remember. But

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it was real wrestling. You know. I love what people

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say like fake. Like I don't understand how you think

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a two hundred and twenty five pound man slapping you

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in the face, whether it's real or fake, is not real, right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, listen, I'm want to let you

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know that PJ. So, I've gotten in the ring twice, okay,

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and I will tell you that the next morning after

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I wrestled, the pain was undeniably real. How sore I was.

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It's fucking real.

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Speaker 2: Man. What was the girl's name? Who beats me?

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Speaker 4: Well, now we're not talking about wrestling anymore. That's a

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whole different thing exactly. Hello, major concern there well, I'm

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glad you went right there, PJ.

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Speaker 5: Because we do.

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Speaker 4: We always covet the opportunity to talk to fans who

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remember by gone eras we focus a lot on recollecting

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the nostalgia that wrestling, the special nostalgic place wrestling can

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hold in a lot of people's minds. So what are

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we talking about? Were talking about the Pedro Morales era

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or the Bob Backland era, or the Bruno San Martino era,

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the Hogan era.

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Speaker 2: We're talking like with those two ladder names, the Bruno,

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the later part Hogan, but Salmonino, the Big Boy Andre,

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the Giants. Yes, you know these guys, These guys I

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got very lucky to see. We all kind of liked wrestling.

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We would watch it on w O Wall in New

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York City. If I can recall, it was on later

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either like a ten or eleven o'clock where we had

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to do a sleepover, yes kind of thing, and you

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know there was no I can't remember because I'm, like

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I said, I'm a little older than you guys, but

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in the seventies, I can't recall it. Like overall, like

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people saying, oh, it's fake, it's this and that. I

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think It was just fun to watch. It was something

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different than anything that you ever saw. Nobody in your

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neighborhood was wrestling like that. Everybody was either boxing or

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you know, doing a karate kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it catches the eye in a way, like

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if you have any m JP. We talked about this

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all the time, if you have any like proclivity towards

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like hand to hand combat as a kid, like if

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you're into hinjas or anything, wrestling is just like this

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fascinating representation of what a fight might look like. You

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don't know, you know, you haven't been in a hundred fights,

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you know, this could very well be what a fight

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looks like you especially before UFC existed.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'll tell you no, no, you go oh.

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Speaker 5: I was just going to say that. You know, as

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a as a kid, one of the things that always

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attracted me to wrestling was the idea that this is

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what I wanted sports to be. I wanted sports to

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be people just hating on each other for no reason

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and just beating the crap out of each other. Like,

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to me, that's what sports were all about.

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Speaker 2: No rules, my family life, all right, you were going

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to say, Pa, I was going to add on to

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it that, you know, in my neighborhood, wrestling saved my life. Wow,

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it saved my life a bunch of times, like like

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in fights, right. I remember this one time, and I

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didn't even know how to do it, but I got

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a guy. We had a fight, and I got a

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guy in a headlock, you know, and more than likely

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it was completely incorrect, it was, but I you know,

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I thought I was like I was Bob Backling at

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that moment. You know, I was like, Oh, I got

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this guy, you know. And then another time I thought

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this guy was much bigger than I was, you know,

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maybe I was, you know, ten or ten, eleven years old,

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whatever it was, and I go to my friends. I

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go it was maybe like six foot two hundred pounds.

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I say to my guys, I got this one. And

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I go up to him and I grab him in

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the headlock, and just like a scene like in the middle,

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like like we had planned it, he grabs me by

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my ass, He flips me over, throws me into a car,

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and slaps the shit out of me.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's that's so true. You would never

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Your point, I think is you would never think to

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grab a headlock. If you didn't watch wrestling, that'd be

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the last instinct you'd have in the middle of a fight.

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But you're like, it just I don't know, you kind

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of download it in your head in a way.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to admit that it is an exciting sport.

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You know, it's really a certain people, a certain type

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of person that watches it. You know, if you're a

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golf guy, you might like it, but maybe you won't.

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Maybe you want the excitement. You like, like you just said,

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the bullshit that goes back and forth and back in

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the day was even worse. You know, they were saying

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racial slurs and all about their wives, and you know,

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well maybe they do it now. I know, I think

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it's a little different now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot more passive aggressive, but yeah, they

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do try to do mic drop things on the light

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like that. But all right, this is great, what a

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great foundation. Now I'm coming in JP and I are

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coming in hot because we know there's a couple of

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things that you're going to be able to talk about

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when it comes to this era of wrestling in New

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York and coming of age during this time. One is

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Bob Beckland. You already mentioned him. He of course reigned

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for years his WWWF champion, kind of taking the mantle

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of the babyface champion at the Garden, after Bruno and

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then Pedro and then Superstar, and then it was Backland.

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There is a story. When I first heard it PJ,

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and I'd like you to share it with our listeners.

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I thought this had to have been the era where

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Bob Eckland in the nineties turned into a psychopathic bad

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guy because of what I was hearing. But no, this

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story happened when Bob Backlin was the squeakiest, clean good

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guy in all of wrestling. Tell us what happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm at the Garden. I can't remember the year,

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forgive me for it. I actually called up because when

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we talk about the other things, I called three other

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people to firm up my story. But we were at

237
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,360
the Garden and this guy, which we'll talk to or

238
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:34,840
unless you want to bring it up there, I'll just

239
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,639
say for now, this guy mel got us like seats

240
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:44,200
that were in the area, you know, and Bob macklean

241
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,879
came out of the flying off of the ring, flying

242
00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:51,120
off the ring like let me tell you when you

243
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,320
watch it on TV. It's one thing, but when you're

244
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,360
five and ten fifteen feet away as a young kid,

245
00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,879
and you see a two hundred pound man flying ten

246
00:12:00,919 --> 00:12:03,840
feet into the air, and I forgot who he was

247
00:12:04,039 --> 00:12:08,240
going against, but he gave when to give the guy

248
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,639
a shot, and the guy ducked, and my beautiful red

249
00:12:12,879 --> 00:12:16,240
head freckle face took the punch right in the jaw.

250
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 4: Oh, you took it for real.

251
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 2: I took it for real. Whether he was really gonna

252
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,279
hit the guy or anything, it's just like it was

253
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,799
a flying's arm. The guy ducked. My dumb ass face

254
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,960
was there. Pow. I go back on my back. I

255
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,559
shake it off. I jump up as if I'm gonna wrestle,

256
00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:41,080
and he looks at me and he laughed his ass

257
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,000
off because I had popped up so quickly.

258
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 4: You're looking for the comeback. So what happened. Did they

259
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,440
come over and kiss your ass and try to make

260
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,080
sure you didn't sue them? Or was that before? That

261
00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:49,840
was a thing?

262
00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:52,759
Speaker 2: That was before that. They didn't even give me a coke.

263
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,440
They were like, get out of here again. You know,

264
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,039
as a matter of fact, this is what actually happened.

265
00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:00,919
I think, Bob, like they came back and came over

266
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,440
a little maybe slightly concerned. But this is now, you're

267
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,080
talking thousands of a second. That's all of this is happening, right,

268
00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:11,320
So so I get hit, I go back, I pop

269
00:13:11,399 --> 00:13:14,080
up him, and I have that exchange. He comes over

270
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,919
a little closer to realize I'm okay. He grabs my

271
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,679
shirt and throws me back again. Wow, it was great,

272
00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:23,480
It was great.

273
00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:25,759
Speaker 4: Why did he throw you back again?

274
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,159
Speaker 2: It's just the way, you know what, like not hard enough,

275
00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:32,120
but just like, get out of here, kid, you know

276
00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:34,919
you're okay, stop stop whining or whatever you thought you

277
00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:37,960
were going to do. So there was no security, there

278
00:13:38,039 --> 00:13:41,600
was no you know, and McMahon didn't come down and

279
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,039
give me a pat on the back. You know, there

280
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,120
was no autograph picture of me in the back with him.

281
00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:50,360
Speaker 4: You know, that's what a what a different world. And

282
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,519
not only had that happened, but for like the superhero

283
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,480
of the territory to do that to you and and

284
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,879
and kind of brush it off like that, it's this

285
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,720
is tremendous. So when he when he hit you, did

286
00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,360
you did you fall back in your chair? I think

287
00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:04,720
you said that, or did you hit the deck or

288
00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:05,759
did you just stagger.

289
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,399
Speaker 2: We were I think I just staggered back because it

290
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,679
was a decent shot because we we had stood up

291
00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:14,759
right because we were had those the folding chairs are

292
00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:16,519
right in the front, so the bar was like literally

293
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,320
right in front of us. So we were like holding

294
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,799
onto that that excitement. And then he came off and

295
00:14:21,799 --> 00:14:23,600
then we all I kind of stood up and then

296
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,519
I took the punch and the chair went back a

297
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:30,840
little bit, and then uh uh he just he just

298
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,320
like looked and again it was like right there. Now

299
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,879
there was no no video of this. I would love

300
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,080
I love to find that video. Oh my god, that

301
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,000
would be great. But irregardless of that situation, that's that's

302
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,360
a reference to uh, what's that movie? I'm sorry. I

303
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,320
thought you guys would get it from Boss from Boston.

304
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:54,600
You know the movie were Matt Damon.

305
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:56,159
Speaker 5: Oh you're talking about to depart it?

306
00:14:57,039 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 2: No, the other one move.

307
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:08,159
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm I'm sewing like I'm sewing like uh,

308
00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:11,679
you know, Bob Backman hitting fans thing that I'm not

309
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,639
even thinking about Boston references.

310
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,039
Speaker 6: I didn't mean to go I didn't mean to go

311
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,159
too deep to great reference because you know, Ben Affleck

312
00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:25,360
goes in dressed with a high he runs a high suit.

313
00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:27,919
Speaker 2: He's got you know, and he says to these guys, hey,

314
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960
you guys are suspect and irregardless of that situation.

315
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,120
Speaker 4: Okay, now I'm with you. I remember exactly. I don't

316
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,840
remember seeing regardless, you know what I thought.

317
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 5: Of with the white sox and everything. That's the best party,

318
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,799
those white white the short like the pants are like

319
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,720
like a size or too too short, and so they're

320
00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:47,879
just exposed white sox. Hilarious.

321
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 4: Well that that reminded me, PJ. Of some of the

322
00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:53,799
overly verbose words that Vince McMahon would use when he

323
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:57,320
was ringside with the microphone. Right, he'd say, nonetheless that, notwithstanding,

324
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,159
regardless of.

325
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 5: The regardless of the fact of the not with standing

326
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,799
that information, and we will indeed provide further entertainment. Does

327
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,120
we prolong the excess of wrestling for the audience?

328
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:10,159
Speaker 2: Right?

329
00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 4: Something like that. What did you think of Vince growing up?

330
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 2: You know, I guess you know, we learned to hate

331
00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:21,960
some of them because they you know, they were programming

332
00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:23,799
us to hate this one or that one. You know,

333
00:16:24,759 --> 00:16:26,440
it's easy. So I don't think I had a real

334
00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,399
understanding of what was happening in his and when you

335
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,120
look at it like one of my Oh my god,

336
00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:35,600
I just I whoever's gonna hate whoever loved me, any

337
00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:37,440
of your fans who love me right now just because

338
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,360
of who I am, you might hate me when I'm

339
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,080
about to say this, But I just watched The Iron

340
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,039
Claw from beginning to end. Oh, like like a week ago.

341
00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:48,399
I got home from the club it was on. I

342
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,000
was like, oh, let me finally watch this, and it

343
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,440
drew me in and drew me in and drew me

344
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:56,159
into the to the everything about that movie.

345
00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,919
Speaker 4: You know absolutely the Iron Claw was. It means something

346
00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:02,639
to us because we did a series on World Class

347
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,079
and the guy who plays Fritz van Eric listen to

348
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,599
a lot of the shows that we did. He said

349
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,920
that in an interview to prepare for the character. So

350
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,319
we've got we've got some skin in that game. Yeah,

351
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,640
we pick up what you're throwing down there. We know

352
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,680
the story almost too well, but yeah, we'll leave that

353
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:17,240
to the second.

354
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 5: Is that as part of the problem we know we

355
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,119
do know the story a little too well, go a

356
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,160
little too attached to that one.

357
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 4: We'll have to talk about that. Bja one day, but

358
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,799
you said the name, you said Mel, and this took

359
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:32,599
shape because our mutual friend Ray was talking to you

360
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,559
about your memories growing up as a wrestling fan in

361
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:37,359
New York City as a kid in the seventies, and

362
00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:41,119
you started telling him about this guy. I'll let you

363
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,079
tell a story. But who would you know, sort of

364
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,920
recruit kids, for lack of a better term, to come

365
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,160
to the matches. And you had no idea that this

366
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,200
is like something that's deeply embedded in like wrestling conversation

367
00:17:53,319 --> 00:17:55,559
right now, So can you take us through that that

368
00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:56,759
gentleman you mentioned.

369
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 2: Mel, Absolutely that you know when I say it's funny,

370
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,440
it's like sexual abuse and all of these things power

371
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:10,640
over people is not funny. But in our neighborhood, none

372
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,599
of us were attacked. We had a bunch of we're

373
00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:16,359
all Catholics. We didn't get there was no priests that

374
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,880
were attacking us as a matter of fact of anything.

375
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,599
They were a little rough on us because that's how

376
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:23,359
they were taught. You know, they were taught in the

377
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,039
fifties and sixties when Latin and there was real respect

378
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:30,839
for the religion. And you know, we were always growing

379
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,079
up second and third generation Italian and Irish and Jewish.

380
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,599
We were always wise asses. So the priest never attacked us.

381
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,599
It was never like that, but we were aware of things.

382
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,240
There was one priest, this father Rodriguez, who was a

383
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,519
little friendly with all of us, you know. And I

384
00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:50,799
will tell your audience if there's any gay kids out there,

385
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,559
just so you understand, I am not gay. But what

386
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:55,160
I'm about to say might sound a little strange. But

387
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,359
I was a tap dancer at an early age, from

388
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,759
like three to seven years old. And my mother in

389
00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:03,720
the seventies, she had to explain to me that there

390
00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:06,799
was going to be a lot of guys around that

391
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,559
like to kiss other guys, right, you know. And there

392
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,960
was a yeah, I'm going everything, and she said, look,

393
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,440
there's a very good friend on the circuit. Yeah, the

394
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:21,039
tap dancing circuit of New York City. I was on

395
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,920
town I was town Hall singing Annie, Annie gets your guns,

396
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,000
you know. But what happened was, you know, my mother

397
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,880
would tell me, look, you know, you know your buddy Freddie, right,

398
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,279
that's my good friend. I said, yes, of course, you know,

399
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,279
Freddie likes to kiss guys. And I said, ow. She

400
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,960
said to me, do you like my mother? Do you

401
00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:45,839
like to kiss other boys? I said, no, I like

402
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,000
to kiss girls. And she said to me, good, she goes,

403
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,559
just remember nobody's ever allowed to touch you, right, Yeah,

404
00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:57,279
that's right right, So and we'll go. We'll go later.

405
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,119
I have two adult children, but I've told them the

406
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,480
same thing. But so Anne. Anyway, we're kind of aware

407
00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:03,880
of all this, right, it's the seventies, even though it's

408
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,400
you know, pedophilia, and all this stuff is all hidden.

409
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,640
So one day we're working at the pizza place. We're

410
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,160
about all twelve thirteen years old, and we can't even

411
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,599
and believe me, I called people last two days trying

412
00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:17,680
to find out how this guy appeared in our lives,

413
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,720
and we can't figure it out. But there was a guy, Mel,

414
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,079
who used to come to the pizza place, who was

415
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,119
friends with the owner, let's say. And we were all

416
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,839
friendly there, and all of us were into wrestling. And

417
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,960
one day somebody says, hey, you know, Mel sets up

418
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:37,319
the ring or does something at Madison Square Garden and

419
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,559
we were like, no way, hey, what's up? You know,

420
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,279
So we start talking to him, and you know, I'm

421
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:47,759
somewhat paraphrasing because this story happened to me and probably

422
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:50,839
about eight other kids in the neighborhood, including the three

423
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,640
I spoke to in the last couple of days to

424
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:58,279
refresh everything. But this guy, Mel's a harmless looking black dude,

425
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,880
you know, nothing like looking. He was like, hey, guys,

426
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,039
who wants to who wants to drive my car? You

427
00:21:05,079 --> 00:21:08,480
know what? And we were like, oh, okay, yeah, let's

428
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:10,240
let's do it. You know, we're at that age you're like,

429
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,480
come on, we'll go down there here, you know. And

430
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:16,640
nobody thought anything of it. And then the second time

431
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,599
we all did it, he said, whoever, whoever's doing the driver,

432
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:22,960
next time, you gotta let me put you in a

433
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,039
wrestling move with your foot. Oh no, right. It was like,

434
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,599
all right, well, still maybe not too strange, you know.

435
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,359
So my buddy gets in the front seat and he's

436
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,319
about to drive. He goes, all right, give me a foot.

437
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,920
So he gave him his right leg, and we're all noticing,

438
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,160
because we're all seeing what's going on. He puts it

439
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,599
between his grint. Oh, and he crosses his leg over

440
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,039
and you know, I don't know what's going on really really,

441
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,640
you know, but we know it's fucking completely strange, you know.

442
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:57,640
But all of us did it like we did it

443
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,559
all at least one time. Not that he had anything

444
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,960
too sexual. There was never anything like, you know, a

445
00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:06,880
rape or anything. I know one of my other friends

446
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:14,400
definitely got touched on his private parts. But yeah, I mean,

447
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:17,920
the crazy thing about this guy is he wasn't really charismatic.

448
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,119
I think it was simply the fact that he was

449
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,279
able to bring us places. You know, So the one

450
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,160
day he comes and he's like, all right, who wants

451
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,680
to go to the garden And we're like, all right,

452
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,799
we'll go. And about five of us went, and we

453
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,240
got to go to the ring as it was getting

454
00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:38,039
set up. And now we hear about the ring boys.

455
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:43,279
You know, it's insane, you know that a guy like

456
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,559
this was allowed either by fans because just like the

457
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,519
priests and just like teachers, and just like you always

458
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,480
know the guy who's the fuck up. Yep, this guy

459
00:22:55,559 --> 00:23:00,440
mel wasn't hiding in plain sight. Somebody knew. Somebody who's

460
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,440
a father, somebody who's a wrestler, somebody's a man who's

461
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,559
a racist who says that how come this black dude

462
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:09,359
is with those kids all the time, Like somebody knew

463
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,079
something with these things. You know.

464
00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:14,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well that's that's a lot. And I do

465
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,160
want to ask you back, running back when we talked

466
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,519
about that first offer of drive my car. So you

467
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:21,279
guys are like, how old at this point?

468
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 2: I think we're we're averaging twelve to thirteen, because that's

469
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,480
when we all started at the uh at this pizza place,

470
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,799
Sal's Pizzeria, a great place that's no longer there.

471
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, I can see at that age definitely being

472
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,480
an intrigue by some adults write JP, let you try

473
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:37,960
their car.

474
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 5: I mean right, I mean that's yeah, some guys like

475
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,519
coming over and say, hey, can you drive my my

476
00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,759
my vehicle? That's like at that age, I mean I

477
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:49,039
would probably I probably would have been I mean definitely

478
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,880
was a pussy when I was you know, that age.

479
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,640
I would have been horrified, probably ran the other direction

480
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,359
and and cried myself to sleep. But like that's that's

481
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:03,519
crazy to think that. I mean, I mean, I'm just

482
00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:08,240
trying to fathom, like, what the idea did he know

483
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:11,200
that you were guys with that age. I mean, it's

484
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:11,880
that's kind of.

485
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:17,559
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely this is this is a controlled thing that

486
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,400
he probably did in twelve cities. Like I didn't look

487
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,119
completely to see how many cities he was with them

488
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,480
if he was just the East coast with this wrestling thing.

489
00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:28,880
But I can imagine he was so good at this

490
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,359
because it's so easy, you know, it really was, especially

491
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,200
like let's say, even city kids, it's not like we're done,

492
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,519
but maybe in a smaller town. Hey, guys, you want

493
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,359
to take a ride in my car? You know. And

494
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,799
by the way, the car was a like a like

495
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:48,519
a like a seventy nine Chevrolet, a station wagon, you know, wow.

496
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,119
And it was like three of us were in the back,

497
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,359
two of us were in the front, you know. Oh,

498
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,960
And that was the other kind of sort of weird thing.

499
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,799
So there would be somebody in the middle and then

500
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,519
him on the drive on the passenger side. So the

501
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,079
person who had to do the leg went over the

502
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,559
other because you short, I had to do it.

503
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,559
Speaker 5: That's crazy, you know.

504
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: Now here's another quick story. So one of my friends

505
00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:15,119
is doing it, it gets the leg move, bah blah

506
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,480
blah blah blah. We're all talking about. He goes, that

507
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,799
was weird, man, I go, yeah, I know, right, I know,

508
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:22,160
I said it because I did it once, I said,

509
00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:25,119
I think I felt as nuts Oh my god, Oh

510
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:31,039
my god. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I should really

511
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:32,759
add to the story with this, so you know what

512
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:35,279
kind of abuse it was. It wasn't just grabbing my foot.

513
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,319
He took no, he didn't take off our socks, but

514
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,839
he took off our shoes to do the move.

515
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: You know, I'm ashamed to say I was going to

516
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,160
ask you for that detail because I'm trying to picture this.

517
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:46,319
So this is happening in the front seat of the car,

518
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,240
You're saying.

519
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,799
Speaker 2: While everybody's there, And it's not even like all right, guys,

520
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,680
you go over there and I'm gonna grab this guy's

521
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,559
fast in full yep, in full plain view of everybody,

522
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,079
like there's nothing wrong with it.

523
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 4: So the car, the cars parked somewhere, and yeah, yeah, sometimes.

524
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:04,759
Speaker 2: It was literally like parked in front of the pizza place.

525
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,160
All right, who's first? You know? Sometimes he goes, all right,

526
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,279
I'm gonna do you. You know, I'm gonna do JP

527
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,559
and PJ, you two are first, and then the rest

528
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,279
of you go later. And then we were get in

529
00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:16,839
the car. So so that happened. And then one day

530
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:19,359
my friend he gets the he gets the move on

531
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,720
the leg and he and and he's putting a shoe

532
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:24,160
back on. He goes like, my ankle, heart's really bad. Like,

533
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:26,480
oh man, all right, because you want I said, you

534
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,000
want to be driving, because now I'll drive, I'll be

535
00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:30,519
all right. So he saw him pulling out and mel says,

536
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:34,440
go ahead, go fast, no faster. So he goes faster

537
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:37,759
and he tries to make a left hand turn and

538
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:43,160
we lose control. Why we go crashing into a warehouse wall.

539
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 4: Did the cops come?

540
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: No? We all go flying. The front of the car

541
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,640
was like it was one of those old you know tanks,

542
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,279
you know, and uh no, the cops didn't come. But

543
00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:59,799
that was kind of like weird because he's like, man,

544
00:26:59,839 --> 00:27:01,720
my ankle really hurt. I think he was doing something

545
00:27:01,759 --> 00:27:04,440
weird to me. And we talked about it more at

546
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,519
that point, and then about maybe about a couple of

547
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:10,359
months later, we didn't see him at all ever again

548
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,000
ever again. And let me say this, the other thing

549
00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:14,599
that I was telling you about going to the garden,

550
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,000
that was amazing because we actually as soon as the

551
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:19,559
ring guys finished it, we were allowed to go there.

552
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,839
Maybe it was a half hour, maybe it was ten minutes.

553
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,680
We got to bang off the thing. I got to

554
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,640
go to the top of the ring and jump off. Really,

555
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,799
you know, Oh, it was amazing. It was the whole

556
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,480
experience was amazing. It was a shame that that's something.

557
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:37,440
And now I'm reading these stories and and anybody who's

558
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,920
out there that that's possibly being triggered by this, I

559
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,920
just wanted you to understand my laughter about it is

560
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,799
probably a self mechanism that I've had my whole existence.

561
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,880
So if you're out there listening to, like somebody who

562
00:27:50,319 --> 00:27:53,599
who really got abused, you know it's I got you know,

563
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,599
listen in my erat my penis got touched a couple

564
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,799
of times. The guy tried to put his penis in

565
00:27:59,799 --> 00:28:01,799
my mind mouth one time when I was younger. But

566
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:04,599
people who really got abuse, who are listening today, I

567
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:07,160
want you to know, like it's not a funny matter,

568
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,640
and we're there for you, you know, the show here,

569
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,519
these guys, they're bringing this up for a reason. They

570
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:15,480
want you to feel comfortable talking about it to somebody,

571
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,640
because it is painful. And I'm in my fifties and

572
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,519
I'm still talking about it thirty forty years later. Yeah,

573
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:23,480
and maybe it just happened to you. Maybe there's a

574
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:25,720
fifteen year old that's been listening to this show for

575
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:27,839
a little bit and he's out there. He doesn't know

576
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:31,119
what to do, but you know, call the show, contact us,

577
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,799
there's some help for you. He's a lapsed fan wrestling

578
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:39,519
podcast with Jack and Corn, SEO and JPISO.

579
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 4: He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast. PJ tell us you

580
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,680
were how you were thinking what seventy late seventies on

581
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,079
this when this was happening.

582
00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:02,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, seventies, early early eighties, seventeen. I'm thinking like seventy

583
00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:05,359
nine to eighty two, like around there those times.

584
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,759
Speaker 4: You know, So listeners should know that as we you know,

585
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:09,920
as you looked into it, because you had mentioned because

586
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,559
you were talking to Ray knowing that we were coming

587
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,799
about your wrestling memories and you bring up this this

588
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,359
this guy in this part of the story that you remember.

589
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,480
But you had no idea, right that this was such

590
00:29:20,839 --> 00:29:21,920
a big wrestling scandal.

591
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,559
Speaker 2: You had no idea, right, So you know right now,

592
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,680
in my life, you know, wrestling is not as as

593
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:33,839
a major part as my friend Ray Goots. Ray has

594
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:37,279
a little podcast that he does. He's friends with you guys.

595
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:41,640
He goes to these Wrestling Masters matches, he buys the paraphernalia.

596
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,160
He loves this, right, So I told him, Hey, we're

597
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,599
doing this wrestling show and they said, hey, blah blah blah.

598
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,400
And I told him a story. I said, hey, right,

599
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,039
you know, we used to be in wrestling, into this

600
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:55,960
and that, and there was this guy Mel who used

601
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,799
to give us weird massages. And Ray goes, what Mel?

602
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,279
I go, yeah, I go why, He goes, Oh, man,

603
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,640
you don't know what's going on. And I did the

604
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,680
Google search, and you know, I know he's gone since

605
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,480
twenty twelve or whatever. But it's a horrible story that

606
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,799
this has happened to a bunch of community. I mean,

607
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,359
Maryland is where where the lawsuit is, but I'm assuming

608
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,160
it should be in every city up and down the

609
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:24,799
East coast.

610
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

611
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,839
Speaker 4: The read there is that Maryland has a looser statute

612
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,920
of limitations on this kind of stuff. So that's like

613
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,240
one of the jurisdictions where you still have a chance

614
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:35,839
as too much time hasn't passed by the state law.

615
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,240
But I think you're exactly right. Yeah, there was you know,

616
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
there were claims against him in the early nineties. There

617
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,200
was a you know, they would call him ring boys,

618
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,000
These kids. They wouldn't just be picked up and brought

619
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,039
to the show, but they would actually get sort of

620
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,440
part time jobs with the WWF. They would help set

621
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,920
up rings and things like that. There was a kid

622
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,680
named Tom Cole who was who went public with a

623
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,119
series of allegations and I believe nineteen ninety one the

624
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:00,759
early nineties that WWF had had to battle, you know,

625
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,160
Vince getting asked about it on Larry King Live and

626
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,119
all this stuff, and you know, they were trying to

627
00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:07,920
create some distance from Meil Phillips and trying to you know,

628
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,119
put him in a different category than somebody that they

629
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:14,160
had as an employee. But yeah, your story echoes across

630
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,319
any wrestling fan who's heard of this thing big time.

631
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:19,039
And and so yeah, you're reading this, and what are

632
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:25,279
you thinking as you're seeing this this fact pattern emerge.

633
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: I called up a couple of friends to make sure

634
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,640
everybody was kind of horderbakay, right, because it's the shock first, sure,

635
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,359
and then you think, okay, let me ask the three

636
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:39,039
friends or four friends that are still around me make

637
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:45,240
sure that they weren't attacks. And you know, nobody was,

638
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,920
you know, because we're close enough and in our fifties,

639
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,279
now that we would have said, yeah, you know what

640
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,039
the guy, like I said, the one guy, you know,

641
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:55,359
I felt Mel's ball. Well that's as far as I went.

642
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 4: Right, you know, but you weren't sure about all your friends.

643
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: Right, right, So before I wanted, you know, I took

644
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,440
it really easy. I like, look, I'm gonna be on

645
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,599
this show. I gotta ask you a few questions. You know,

646
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,319
you're gonna be okay with this, you know, and and

647
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,160
even like we said, with what we should say about

648
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,319
this show, like some of the things that we're saying.

649
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,720
You know, here's the thing about when women get abused,

650
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:19,839
right when when women get abused, they hold it in

651
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,319
and it affects them. But when a man gets abused,

652
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,839
especially by another man, it's it's much deeper. Yeah, the

653
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,680
scars in us can can take us and ruin relationships

654
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,640
for tens and twenties, thirty years. So you know, this

655
00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:42,039
kind of control, I it pisces me off, right because again,

656
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,359
people know that there was a problem. Yes, so I

657
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,640
know we're talking about thirty years ago, but you know, look,

658
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:53,279
it's it's horrible what happened to the uh to the

659
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:58,440
what we'll call it the you know, like the the people,

660
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,680
the girls who the gymnastics.

661
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, the doctor.

662
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:06,039
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like you think about these things. You know,

663
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,200
there's there's a guy. Oh my god, here I go

664
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:11,799
with the leffing. There's guys. There's a guy in New

665
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,759
York City and proctologists that was like doing stuff the

666
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:19,839
guys with their fingers. And now there's a huge lawsuit

667
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,960
on the radio everything did you have you been ever

668
00:33:23,039 --> 00:33:25,000
treated by doctor dubblebo? Right?

669
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,599
Speaker 4: The post headline rights itself to begin with, it's true.

670
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:35,599
Speaker 2: I mean you have to post. You're a post up

671
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,920
there or mine here, and they're both the sh So

672
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,119
when this guy, now, you know, I would have loved

673
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:46,200
to be able to confront him in a way. And

674
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,759
you know, because it's you know, I don't feel weird

675
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:52,519
about it, like I'm saying it to you somewhat. But again,

676
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,640
my abuse is whatever is in my head. It wasn't

677
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,119
bad enough for me to continually think about it. It's

678
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,599
almost like understood a story of like, oh remember when

679
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,039
we got you know, finger, you know, foot held by

680
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:10,480
that guy.

681
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just it was just outside of and

682
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,679
and from what I understand, you know, it in some cases,

683
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:22,280
it did get more graduated than that with some With

684
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,000
some kids, I think that, you know, you can find

685
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:28,559
allegations like that, But but in terms of that, I

686
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:30,719
can understand what you mean because it's like, at that

687
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,440
age it doesn't even really seem necessarily sexual. And I

688
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,400
think that's kind of if I'm reading all the things

689
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,639
that people are saying about what happened correctly or people

690
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:41,880
are alledging happen, that's kind of like how he started.

691
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:44,159
You know, these things that you hear the same thing

692
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,559
about a lot of celebrities that get involved with allegations

693
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:48,880
like this. You know, it doesn't necessarily start as overly sexual.

694
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:52,480
So when this is you know, when this is happening

695
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,840
in the car and things like that, is he part

696
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,679
Pardon me for asking this, but I'm trying to figure

697
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,559
out like how it hits you guys in terms of

698
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:02,480
how he's acting. Is he like playing it like straight,

699
00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:04,480
like you look at his face and you don't you

700
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:07,119
can't tell he's getting any gratification out of this, or

701
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:10,400
is it like he is sort of signaling to you

702
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,000
that this this is why he's doing this.

703
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,199
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess my first thing is when I

704
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:17,039
got in the car one day he was totally naked.

705
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:18,800
I was like, okay, that's that's a.

706
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 4: Oh hey man, I don't know. I don't know how

707
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,760
much we're gonna unearthlier in this conversation. So maybe I

708
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,920
was sorry, you're buried the lead there. If that was

709
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,599
the case, Oh my god, that was wow.

710
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: He was in a red flamingos suit and hard audiena

711
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,440
you know what, man, Like I think one of my buddies,

712
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:44,199
like he was a little bigger than us and he

713
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,760
was like fifteen. He's like, I'm gonna kick his ass. Man,

714
00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:48,519
Oh yeah, go for what what did he you know?

715
00:35:48,559 --> 00:35:50,039
What did he do? And it's like, I don't know,

716
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:52,079
this is like who this is weird. I'm not going

717
00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:54,159
back into the car anymore. You know.

718
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah he could tell, but yeah he could tell.

719
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: Like they look, I don't even know if I can

720
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:03,960
hear something about it, Like was it sexual for him? Yes, immediately,

721
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,719
But again, sexual and dominance and all of that to

722
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,480
people like that is what they get off on. Was

723
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:13,639
it getting off on a thirteen year old kid because

724
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,239
he grabbed his foot? Was it the pain that he

725
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,800
gave us? Was it the control of the pain squeezing

726
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,920
the foot, letting it go, squeezing the foot? Was it

727
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,960
because it was between his cock and he was getting excited? Right?

728
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,320
You know I didn't look enough into him even for

729
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,440
this story. I apologize. I really should have to see

730
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,719
a family. Was he was he a father? Was he

731
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,679
an uncle? Was he a you know, let's find out

732
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,840
about this guy, you know, because listen, you know, let

733
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,360
me just say this. There's probably let's say, not in

734
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,639
my group, but if he did this, let's ass whom

735
00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:50,639
he did this every city up and down, wherever they

736
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:56,639
went to, what worked? This was the www WW. So

737
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,400
let's say wherever they go, there's some town that there

738
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,480
was one or two guys that were like, Yeah, I'm

739
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,719
gonna go beat I'm gonna go meet mel Oh, yeah,

740
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,599
I'm gonna let him up, I'm gonna let him rub

741
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:08,159
my foot, and I'm gonna go sit in the front

742
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,960
row and watch a championship wrestling.

743
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:12,079
Speaker 4: Match, right, you know, right right?

744
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: So you know, he's definitely somebody. These other people who

745
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,400
have been abused, you know, hopefully they can get over it,

746
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,880
but it's it's definitely in this society. People don't look

747
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,159
at it now, like the way you know, they're more important.

748
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:30,400
It's more important now than it was twenty five thirty

749
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:30,800
years ago.

750
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that's kind of what the environment that

751
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,320
allowed him to keep doing it over and over again.

752
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,480
I mean, we'd like to think that if someone tried

753
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,239
to do something like this today, they'd be found out

754
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,440
so quickly as opposed to having the environment where they

755
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,039
could keep doing it. Did you have the impression, PJ,

756
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,840
that he that he picked the pizza parlor for any

757
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,639
particular reason that you guys hung out at. You think

758
00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:53,679
like he lived around there. I'm not even sure like

759
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,039
where he lived, And it sounds to me when you

760
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:57,559
told the story like he was sort of like just

761
00:37:57,599 --> 00:37:59,840
coming to the pizza shop anyway, as opposed to being

762
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,280
on the prow. Well, I don't know how to think

763
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:01,679
about that.

764
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing, right the way you said that,

765
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,239
and again I kind of know what I'm talking about,

766
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,920
but don't. But even the way you just said that,

767
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,440
I feel a guy like the him always on the

768
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,079
prow got it right, because that's the type of that person.

769
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,079
Is he went to get a piece of pizza. Maybe

770
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:21,800
he was a Jehovah witness. There used to be a

771
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,800
huge Jehovah witness place that's still there on my block

772
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:28,679
in Sunnyside took over a huge movie theater that was

773
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:31,400
there since the twenties called the Bliss Theater. So maybe

774
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,159
he was a Jehovah witness. Maybe he came driving from LaGuardia.

775
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,159
You know, maybe he used to go to Sunnyside Gardens

776
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,360
and was and knows the pizza place, you know, because

777
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,599
the Sunnyside Gardens didn't get out of there untill the eighties,

778
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,760
the building itself. So maybe it's all of that. And

779
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,199
and when when when you think about that, where do

780
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,559
where do where do you? Where do you see people?

781
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,519
You know, you'll see them at a pizza place? And

782
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:55,079
if you see a whole bunch of kids, maybe he

783
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:57,719
just goes in there and starts talking to the owner. Hey,

784
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,840
how you doing. Oh my name is mel I do

785
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,360
Oh yeah, the kids love wrestling. Hey, PJ. Come on, yeah,

786
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:06,599
got it? Go go go say helo to this guy. Right,

787
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:08,639
it's it's not like, oh what, it's like, oh what

788
00:39:08,639 --> 00:39:10,079
do you do? All right? Oh? You like you guys

789
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:12,360
like wrestling? Yeah, oh you should come to the You

790
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,199
should come to the garden one time and see Bob

791
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,280
Backlan and this one or that one. Wouldn't that be great?

792
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,159
You know? And again I'm not saying it like I'm

793
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,880
some naive kids. So you know, I had no no

794
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:26,480
father growing up, no brothers and sisters. I had a mother,

795
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:29,920
was five ten, one hundred and sixty pounds, solid, big

796
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,639
Irish woman, didn't take shift from nobody like. That was

797
00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:36,480
the other thing. I was protected because I think even

798
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:40,599
guys who probably wanted to try to rape me were like, oh,

799
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,480
if I do, I'm gonna have to deal with his mother.

800
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:44,119
So no, I'd rather not.

801
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 4: Wow. Did you talk to her about it ever? Your mom?

802
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, after we kind of I was like because

803
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,119
she was like, oh, I was that wrestling thing, you know,

804
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:57,880
and I was like, well, this is kind of this

805
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:00,559
kind of strange he goes and she's like, oh, that

806
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:03,079
is kind of strange. Maybe you shouldn't do that, you know,

807
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,559
does it hurt your foot? And I was like yeah,

808
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:09,480
she goes, yeah, maybe that's not a good idea. And

809
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:12,320
then I was like, wait, is it like you don't

810
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,239
say the way she just said it just because it

811
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,280
hurt my foot. Jeves must have been reading into every

812
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,559
line that I'm saying going instead of going what she

813
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:23,880
usually would do. She might even say, hey, hey, dummy,

814
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:28,239
get your foot out of the black dudes crash and

815
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,639
don't go in the car anymore, you know, But she

816
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,440
kind of said it like in such a way that

817
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:37,920
it was like, hey, man, get out of that car.

818
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,199
Don't go back to this idiot.

819
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,079
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, sort of like a suggestion that wouldn't set

820
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:45,559
off too many alarms. But like you said, you realized

821
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:48,039
there was more to it than just you know, that

822
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:48,760
could be trouble.

823
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 2: You know.

824
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,519
Speaker 4: It's like she was kind of reading the situation because

825
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:53,400
so this only he only got you in once or

826
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,199
did it happen multiple times? As far as going to

827
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,800
the matches with him?

828
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,519
Speaker 2: Going to the matches? We went? If I went three times?

829
00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:02,400
If I can remember?

830
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,679
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, so and you're saying three times you

831
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,840
went with him or a.

832
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,039
Speaker 2: Bunch of people like like he would he would sometimes

833
00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:11,760
come by the the pizza place at like five o'clock

834
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,559
and whoever was there. It's like, who wants to take

835
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:16,199
a ride to the city, Yes, yes, and go check

836
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,000
this out. It's like, oh, I'll go, I'm here, got it, Hey,

837
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,320
I use it? Can I use the phone. I got

838
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,719
to call my mom. Hey, I'm going I'm going to

839
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,960
the city. Okay, when do you be back? What time

840
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,400
we'll be back? Probably eleven o'clock, you know.

841
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,159
Speaker 5: And that was the time you said three times you

842
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:30,960
went in with him.

843
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,679
Speaker 2: Three times? I think, yeah, I'm trying to really like

844
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:36,880
it's a kind of thing because I've been to the

845
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:41,239
wrestling so many times, but specifically I think three times.

846
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,119
Two times we really did like jumped on the on

847
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:45,960
the we got to jump on the ring and the

848
00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:47,840
ring and everything. And then the third time we just

849
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,400
got to go.

850
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,199
Speaker 4: Right, does he have like an entrance to the building,

851
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,079
Like how do you make the approach? Like he doesn't

852
00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:57,960
just walk in the front door? Like what's that like?

853
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,400
Like arriving with somebody that's kind of giving you that

854
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,400
that VIP treatment.

855
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: Well, we all had to wear like these little white

856
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,960
hats and suck on lollipops before we were in.

857
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, that that should have set off some alarms. But okay, yeah,

858
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:12,960
I'm starting to say.

859
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: To Yeah, you're right. I was said to myself, Damn,

860
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,079
that was my first thing. There was a garage. Actually,

861
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:24,360
if you if you know the garden, there's it's it's

862
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,880
the same setup, like it's closed off. Now they've made

863
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,400
a like a no pedestrian pathway. But on thirty third

864
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,320
Street you used to be able to like drive right

865
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,480
down below the thing. So I'm remembering that. And then

866
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:41,840
like two of the other times we actually like like, oh,

867
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,800
meet us over there, and we would meet him like

868
00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:46,239
at a side gate kind of thing.

869
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, it was a meet us there thing,

870
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,079
as opposed to he drives you there, Well, he drives

871
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:50,360
you there.

872
00:42:50,559 --> 00:42:53,679
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say one time we got driven.

873
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,159
I remember all of us were in the car, Hey,

874
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:58,559
he wants to go. And then another time we got

875
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:00,320
in the car again, and I think the third time

876
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,239
it's like, hey, we're gonna go see mel once again

877
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,199
on the train. Let's go, and a bunch of us

878
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:05,400
went and met him at the gate.

879
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 4: Got it? Got it? Okay, that's understand now, because you know,

880
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:11,199
I'm in my mind, I'm thinking, like, you know, how

881
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:13,800
obvious is this to people around that this guy is

882
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,480
like a pied piper being followed by six seven teenage

883
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,599
boys all the time. To your point about someone had

884
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:21,559
to know. I'm trying to picture how you know obvious

885
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:21,920
it was?

886
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 5: Perhaps, but I mean that's also part of the problem

887
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:27,159
is that people probably did know, and it's like it's

888
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:30,559
a it's a really almost a systemic type of situation

889
00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:34,920
where it's like, well, okay, you know, just gonna there

890
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,360
goes Mel. Mel's doing his thing.

891
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: Now again, I've said the black guy five or six

892
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,000
and seven times. So if there's any brothers out there

893
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,440
who think I'm a racist, I'm not. I'm a realist.

894
00:43:46,559 --> 00:43:48,400
There's a big difference when you're in the fifties you

895
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,880
grew up in In my neighborhood, we had everybody I

896
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,199
have And when I say I have black friends, I

897
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,000
mean that I have the people that I talk to.

898
00:43:56,119 --> 00:43:59,599
These are these are childhood friends. We have Spanish, and

899
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:03,000
and and Italian and every race that Indian doing in

900
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,800
my neighborhood. We have all of it. But when I

901
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,719
say this the way you just asked me that question,

902
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,719
let me ask you a question. If you're a WWF,

903
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,880
you're a wrestler, you're getting your clothes on and you

904
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,199
see Mel, the black dude walking in with five white

905
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,559
kids with shorts and T shirts, you know you don't

906
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:24,199
ask a question, well, what is this? Just like you said,

907
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,760
Pied Piper, what is it? What is happening here?

908
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, well, it's clear that he's not you know,

909
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,320
perhaps it's clear that he's not someone's dad, you know,

910
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,320
or someone's brother, or whatever the case might be. But

911
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,159
it's also I think I think it's useful for identification

912
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,760
because there weren't I don't think any I can't think

913
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,159
of another black wrestling announcer because he worked as an

914
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:44,360
announcer or he was ringside in that time period. So

915
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,519
when we're thinking, you know, when someone like yourself like

916
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:49,519
I remember that guy to say the black guy puts

917
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:51,760
you right there, you know exactly that we're talking about

918
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,679
the same guy, which I think is part of the

919
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,920
reason that that that's useful shorthand in the situation. But no,

920
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:01,920
I totally, I totally take your point. Did you said

921
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,119
a couple of times, you know, then your mom was

922
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:06,760
asking you did it hurt? And things like that, So

923
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,119
I really understand that, you know, he's literally putting the

924
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:13,639
you know, you and your friend's feet in his crotch.

925
00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:16,480
But is he like try to pretend it's like a

926
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:19,159
wrestling thing and also like grabbing the foot with his

927
00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:21,199
hand and twisting like how did it hurt in that way.

928
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,039
I'm trying to picture like if you tried to you know,

929
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:26,559
mask it is like wrestling fooling around, or if it

930
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:28,239
was just like as gratuitous as it.

931
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,519
Speaker 2: Sounds, it definitely sounds like you're getting off on this.

932
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:32,480
By the way, Well.

933
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,559
Speaker 4: That's this is going to have to be my last

934
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:36,840
question on that front for fear of coming off that way.

935
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,000
But you know, these are the questions others don't ask you, Right.

936
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love it. I love it, but you

937
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,639
know I will tell you that. You know, that's what

938
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:48,599
I was saying, right because I think of the pain.

939
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I was like wow.

940
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:53,599
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. Like like when he says, all right,

941
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:55,599
I'm gonna put you in a wrestling movie. There was

942
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:57,360
that was it. I'm going to give you a wrestling move.

943
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,840
If you wanted, you got to take this wrestling move, okay,

944
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,079
and he did it. He would like he would take

945
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:05,320
his left hand like again, right, It's it's kind of

946
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,119
weird because I'm I'm, I'm. There was one of those

947
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,880
you know, it was a long bench kind of thing, right,

948
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:16,239
so they weren't bucket seats. It's the old fashioned you know,

949
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,400
what did I say before the long cars station wagon, ye,

950
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:22,840
station wagon. Right, so you know those fronts right, it's

951
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,719
three right, there's like you can so so so somebody

952
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,320
for me specifically, there wasn't anybody in the front. We

953
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,320
had my three buddies in the back. I take my

954
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,880
left leg. There might have been a little hump or something.

955
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:36,719
So now before the car starts, my left leg is over.

956
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,440
I'm trying to do it, and now it's over, and

957
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,920
now he's grabbed it, and now I'm twisted. So so

958
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,280
now everybody you can you can envision this. I'm in

959
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,480
the driver's seat, I'm looking forward. I take my left leg,

960
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,559
I move it to the right to the passenger side

961
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,440
where this man is seated. He takes my foot and

962
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:58,880
twist it in such a way that now my body

963
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:06,119
is contoured completely to the left towards the door. Right.

964
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:10,639
So now I'm I'm weirdly looking away from him. My

965
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,400
foot is in his crotch and he's putting on a

966
00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:18,719
move by his left hand under pushing down into the

967
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,639
crotch and then doing something squeezing the toes going forward.

968
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,119
Got it, you know, and and sometimes you do, you know,

969
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:27,239
we make you do it for a minute sometimes you know,

970
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,760
you yell too loud. He let you go, but it

971
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,920
was weird. You know. It's like again like I guess

972
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,920
after oh, let's do it. Yeah that was that was fun,

973
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,960
and then the next time it's like, like, for instance,

974
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,920
this guy blew it. If he if he would have

975
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,360
done it softer, we would have we would have all

976
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,719
been there like for three weeks.

977
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that that's kind of that. That's why I

978
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,519
asked the question because it was like, I'm trying to

979
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:57,000
like understand how it didn't immediately set off like this

980
00:47:57,039 --> 00:47:59,199
guy that's hurts like fuck this, you know, but that's

981
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,360
this This now starts to make sense to me in

982
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,000
terms of how he would kind of gradually go to

983
00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:05,719
that weird place. Like you said, it happened you know,

984
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,199
three times, so you guys got the hint eventually.

985
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,199
Speaker 5: But yeah, I was going to say, I don't know

986
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:12,039
if you mentioned before and I forget, but like, what

987
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,159
made did he stop coming to you? Did you guys

988
00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:18,119
stop decide no, we don't want to do this anymore,

989
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:20,800
or what was like what what kind of stopped it

990
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,199
after three weeks?

991
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of such that like

992
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,480
maybe we all started you know, I have this thing

993
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:32,360
in my head that my my guy was he was

994
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,960
an Italian from Sicily, the owner of the place. Yeah,

995
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:42,519
and salad Tommy to it. And I really feel and

996
00:48:42,639 --> 00:48:45,000
you know, now that I'm talking about it, I'm even

997
00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:49,239
saying it out loud, strongly, strongly to you too, because

998
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,199
you're only two that listening to me right now, except

999
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,280
the rest of the fans. But the fans will understand

1000
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,519
that this place in Queen's was a really family place

1001
00:48:58,199 --> 00:49:00,960
and we all work there, and we all bought pizza there,

1002
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,719
and it was like there was two pizza places in

1003
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,199
the whole neighborhood. It was that place in another place,

1004
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,360
and we chose this one. So I think there was

1005
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,920
a combination of maybe, you know, people started complaining about it,

1006
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:14,639
all of us like, oh, I'm not going that, no,

1007
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,840
because we did. I remember saying, yeah, I'm not going

1008
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,880
you hurt my foot last time. You know, I'll come on,

1009
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,719
you know, your little your little redheaded pussy, come on.

1010
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,760
You know, I'm like, no, man, I don't want to

1011
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,639
do that anymore, you know. And then and then all

1012
00:49:27,639 --> 00:49:30,360
of a sudden, you know, maybe a couple of us

1013
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,360
were talking about it, and maybe in my head. You know,

1014
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,840
I'm noticing that, you know, because Tommy and Steve, they

1015
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,159
were always there. Tommy would know, what are you guys

1016
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:40,559
talking about? What's going on? And maybe one of us

1017
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:42,719
said something and then because it was it was a

1018
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:48,039
sudden disappearance, like you know, maybe Tommy talked to him.

1019
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,039
Maybe he went a little further with one of the

1020
00:49:50,119 --> 00:49:53,360
kids than usual and decided to hit the town.

1021
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:59,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, crazy, I mean exactly, that totally makes sense.

1022
00:49:59,159 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 2: You know.

1023
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,199
Speaker 5: Still, if he noticed something like that, something that's kind

1024
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:04,599
of just a little bit off, he's uh, you know,

1025
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,400
I imagine he's gonna fuck with somebody.

1026
00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:11,679
Speaker 2: It's a little yeah, even if it's a little look,

1027
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:13,760
don't come around the more. I don't like what you're

1028
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,599
doing with my boys.

1029
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly exactly.

1030
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:20,039
Speaker 4: Did you know him as mel did you? Is that

1031
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:23,000
how he asked you you introduce himself to you guys.

1032
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, I don't remember the Phillips thing,

1033
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,639
and I really can't remember too much of the the

1034
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:34,079
announcing things. You know, I thought he was at a

1035
00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:37,920
different level in the organization, like that's a high level

1036
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,039
in a sense of things. You know. I'm wondering, like

1037
00:50:41,119 --> 00:50:43,719
how that even happened. I even thought there was another

1038
00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:46,119
I know what you said, and thank you actually for

1039
00:50:46,199 --> 00:50:49,000
clarifying this, and here I go back to the thing again.

1040
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:51,400
But I thought, no, it can't. There must be a

1041
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,800
whole bunch of black dudes who had access like this.

1042
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,039
And it was like, when I talked to Ray, I

1043
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:58,119
was like, no way, man, there's too much of a

1044
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:04,800
coincidence that this and my story, you know, are different.

1045
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,519
You know they're the same, obviously, So no, I knew

1046
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:09,440
him as mal and that's all we knew.

1047
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:13,519
Speaker 4: Did you have a sense that, in addition to being like,

1048
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,639
I guess this like vip at the wrestling company, what

1049
00:51:18,039 --> 00:51:20,039
it actually is that he did, because to your point,

1050
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,519
fans would know him because at a certain point they

1051
00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:24,159
put him in the ring as a ring announcer. I'm

1052
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:26,960
not sure that for the entirety of his time with

1053
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:28,880
that company that he was a ring announcer per se.

1054
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:30,440
What did you think he did for them?

1055
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: I think we all, literally, even though I think I

1056
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,039
even mentioned it earlier, I think we understood that he

1057
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:41,239
had something to do with setting up the ring.

1058
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,079
Speaker 5: That's what it was, Okay, That's where it all happened.

1059
00:51:44,199 --> 00:51:46,400
It was ring Boys was the thing, right, it was.

1060
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, Ring Boys is like the shortthand version of the

1061
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,320
how to refer to the scandal, the Ring Boys scandal,

1062
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,480
because that was sort of yeah, yeah, well man, this

1063
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:57,800
is I really really appreciate you talking about it and

1064
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,679
keeping it as light as can be.

1065
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 2: You know.

1066
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:03,639
Speaker 4: That's that's the tricky balance, you know as a comedian,

1067
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,679
like there's there's comedy, gold and tragedy. But what a

1068
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,719
hard balance to strike to talk about it with a

1069
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,559
smile on your face, you know. At the same time,

1070
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,760
it's almost I wonder like when you see this and

1071
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,039
you see like that lawsuits came of it, and a

1072
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:17,760
lot of people came forward, like does it make you

1073
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,119
feel differently about what happened or do you still kind

1074
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:23,159
of you know, you feel the same, and it's just

1075
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:25,880
like this these other experiences just are sort of foreigned,

1076
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,159
you know what I mean. Does it make you think, wow,

1077
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:29,280
that that might have been more fucked up than even

1078
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:29,880
I realized?

1079
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I'm not a person that wants to be

1080
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,320
retigious and right right, and you know, but yeah, maybe

1081
00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:43,840
my one buddy, the guy who did the crashing, he's

1082
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,840
the one who said he goes man, we should be sewing.

1083
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:49,840
We should have sued, you know, so, so yeah, like

1084
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,599
and it's also a pissed off kind of thing, and

1085
00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:53,719
like like, right now, the two of you have to

1086
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,760
send me a VEMO of thirty eight dollars because I

1087
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,159
have to go to therapy now because.

1088
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 4: You bought years, we do paid.

1089
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I hope you are fans of the show

1090
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:06,239
appreciate what I'm bringing to you to you all today.

1091
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,039
I love the show. I love the idea of listened

1092
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:13,159
to a bunch of the episodes to see you guys.

1093
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:19,159
And but yeah, it's it's it's something that thank god,

1094
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,199
it wasn't as painful as some of these other dudes

1095
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,440
are dealing with, right Yeah, And I'm in the sense that.

1096
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, because so many people when they, you know, when

1097
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,679
they deal with sexual abuse like this, I mean, they

1098
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,639
go to all different lengths that could be addiction or

1099
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,360
any other kind of abuse on their end, or suicide,

1100
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,559
you know. So it's it's really it's amazing that you're

1101
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,239
not only here talking about it, but that you're able

1102
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,880
to again say, talk about it with such good spirits essentially,

1103
00:53:51,039 --> 00:53:52,840
you know, and and and make light of it as

1104
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:53,440
best you can.

1105
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,599
Speaker 2: Well again, I'll lend it at this on my part

1106
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:03,559
about this particular object is you know, people out there,

1107
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,840
if you have especially men, if you have a situation

1108
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:12,639
and you've been holding it in for a month, a year,

1109
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,199
ten years, do yourself a favor in everybody around you.

1110
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,719
Go talk to somebody, because more than likely, I'm throwing

1111
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,159
out the statistic, it's probably bullshit. Seven out of ten

1112
00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:24,840
people have probably been touched in some way. And you're

1113
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,719
not alone, and we're here and there's somebody out there

1114
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,360
who will listen, whether it's a priest, a rabbi, or

1115
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,840
this show. You have to stop what's happening, because that's

1116
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,039
what happens they you allow that person, You allow fucking

1117
00:54:38,159 --> 00:54:41,760
nell to be in your head, and you start drinking

1118
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,639
and you have relationship problems and was I gay? Am

1119
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:48,159
I straight? Because this guy hit on me? You know,

1120
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:50,440
there's a whole bunch of shit that happens with abuse.

1121
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,719
And I don't mean I'm getting a little deep under

1122
00:54:53,679 --> 00:54:57,000
this flo it's you have to realize that if you

1123
00:54:57,159 --> 00:54:59,159
have that out there, if one of your listeners has

1124
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,159
any situation, there is a call for you. There is

1125
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:06,320
somebody that's listening. I'm an email away. The show is

1126
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,519
an email away to you people and break the cycle.

1127
00:55:11,119 --> 00:55:11,960
Break the cycle.

1128
00:55:12,159 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's that's powerful stuff.

1129
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: Man.

1130
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:16,159
Speaker 4: Well, thanks for going down those roads with us, and

1131
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:17,800
we look forward seeing you. It's going to get a

1132
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,800
lot lighter, I can assure folks August third at the

1133
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:26,039
at Comedy Village. But really a pleasure to talk to you, PJ.

1134
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,320
Can't wait to collaborate further here coming up in August

1135
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:30,800
and take care man.

1136
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 2: You guys are fantastic. Thanks to the fans, and we'll

1137
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:35,440
see you August third.

1138
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:40,599
Speaker 4: This email it is a production of the Lab Entertainment Group.

1139
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 5: Its content is intended for reven use only.

1140
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: We want