Speaker 1: I woke up this morning to the text from my
Speaker 1: mom that Pope Francis had passed away, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: who's going to comment on this in local media as
Speaker 1: much as I am, Probably not too many people. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how many other local radio hosts or Catholics
Speaker 1: or anything or have thought about Pope Francis as much
Speaker 1: as I have. So I want to spend the first
Speaker 1: part of the show talking about him and talking about
Speaker 1: the legacy that Francis leaves behind, which is a complicated one,
Speaker 1: I would say, So I want to start. I'll try
Speaker 1: and go through, you know, the good, the bad, and
Speaker 1: the indifferent. Pope Francis was elected in twenty thirteen on
Speaker 1: the heels of Pope Benedict and Pope Benedict the sixteenth
Speaker 1: had a very odd papacy, a very odd ending. Benedict
Speaker 1: was a giant. Joseph Ratzinger Benedict the sixteenth was a giant.
Speaker 1: When John Paul the second died in two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: and this is reported from other cardinals sort of talked
Speaker 1: about that papal election, and by the way, for those
Speaker 1: who don't know the way it works in the Catholic churches,
Speaker 1: when a pope dies, this group of bishops, called the
Speaker 1: College of Cardinals, gets together. Cardinals are sort of form
Speaker 1: in name, they are the clergy of the city of Rome,
Speaker 1: and they are there to elect the new Bishop of Rome,
Speaker 1: the person who succeeds Saint Peter. Now, in practice, the
Speaker 1: cardinals are usually senior archbishops from big cities all over
Speaker 1: the world, and then a couple of archbishops who work
Speaker 1: directly in Rome and directly help the pope in the
Speaker 1: administration of the church. So you have cardinals in what's
Speaker 1: called the Roman Curia, cardinals who live in Rome and
Speaker 1: help the pope, and then cardinals who are bishop archbishops
Speaker 1: of big cities all over the world. Cardinal Dolan is
Speaker 1: the Archbishop of New York, Cardinal Soupitch is the Archbishop
Speaker 1: of Chicago, Cardinal McElroy is the Archbishop of Washington, d c. Etc. So,
Speaker 1: And sometimes a pope will be picked from some random
Speaker 1: city where he's an archbishop. Pope Francis was like that.
Speaker 1: He had been the archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina. Pope Benedict,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, was a pope who worked in
Speaker 1: the Roman Curia and he directly assisted John Paul the
Speaker 1: Second for about twenty five years before he was Pope.
Speaker 1: Benedict was a giant. I think we can't understand sort
Speaker 1: of the the change of what Francis's papacy represented without
Speaker 1: understanding Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul the Second before him.
Speaker 1: Both John Paul and Benedict were intellectual giants. John Paul
Speaker 1: the Second was a giant in the fields, especially of
Speaker 1: moral theology and ethics. Pope Benedict was a giant of
Speaker 1: theology in general, systematic theology. The two men put together
Speaker 1: probably wrote like eighty books between each other. I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm exaggerating. I know Pope Benedict had written like
Speaker 1: forty books like before he was elected pope. He was
Speaker 1: one of the foremost theologians in the world. Pope Benedict
Speaker 1: was before he was elected pope. And when John Paul
Speaker 1: the Second died, the cardinals I think they were like, well,
Speaker 1: we have an obvious choice. Do we pick Ratzinger, Joseph
Speaker 1: Ratzinger Benedict the sixteenth, or do we pick somebody else?
Speaker 1: That was the obvious. It was the gorilla in the room.
Speaker 1: It was the elephant in the room. Okay, well, he
Speaker 1: is obviously the one singular person. Because Pope Benedict had
Speaker 1: worked directly with John Paul the Second, he had one
Speaker 1: of the most important roles within the Roman Curia, where
Speaker 1: he was overseeing doctrinal questions and helping continue to explain
Speaker 1: and defend the Catholic faith, including in very specific ethical
Speaker 1: questions that would come before the church dealing with disciplinary things.
Speaker 1: Pope Bennett. It was Pope Benedict, both as Joseph Ratzinger
Speaker 1: the Cardinal and then as Pope Benedict, that I think
Speaker 1: did every every good thing that the Catholic Church did
Speaker 1: in response to the revelations about sex abuse crisis, the
Speaker 1: crises in the church. All of that, much of that, anyway,
Speaker 1: was Joseph Ratzinger's work, both as a cardinal and then
Speaker 1: as Pope, including ways in which John Paul the Second
Speaker 1: I think failed to act. There's some evidence that John
Speaker 1: Paul the Second a lot of the sex abuse stuff
Speaker 1: broke when John Paul the Second was very, very elderly
Speaker 1: and had, you know, very advanced Parkinson's disease, and that
Speaker 1: he was slow to believe reports different kinds of reports
Speaker 1: of clergy sex abuse coming from the perspective of having
Speaker 1: grown up in communist controlled Poland, where the communist authorities,
Speaker 1: if they wanted to sort of detract from the moral
Speaker 1: authority of leaders in the church, would accuse them of
Speaker 1: various forms of sexual impropriety without any basis. They would
Speaker 1: just lie about church leaders sorted to undermine their standing
Speaker 1: with the people. So JP two, Saint John Paul the
Speaker 1: Second was kind of not always very swift, to believe it,
Speaker 1: and Benedict, when he came in in two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: immediately took swift action to correct all these things. Benedict
Speaker 1: was helping bring the Church out of really what was
Speaker 1: a very low point in the seventies. You had this
Speaker 1: very low point following what's called the Second Vatican Council.
Speaker 1: This was a gathering of all the world's bishops that
Speaker 1: happened in the nineteen sixties that resulted in a lot
Speaker 1: of changes in sort of the way in which the
Speaker 1: church worshiped, the way in which the Church was sort
Speaker 1: of presenting its teaching to the world, and a lot
Speaker 1: of bad outcomes came after the Second Vatican Council. People
Speaker 1: argue furiously about whether Vatican Two caused all the bad outcomes.
Speaker 1: But for example, we see in the United States a
Speaker 1: huge percentage of American athletics just stopped going to church.
Speaker 1: People did not like a lot of the things that
Speaker 1: changed in the church Following the Second Patican Council, Mass
Speaker 1: attendants dropped worldwide. Priestly ordinations, which is usually a pretty
Speaker 1: good indicator of the vitality of Catholicism, dropped enormously. And
Speaker 1: so John Paul the Second had this herculean task of,
Speaker 1: you know, cleaning out the stables of a church that
Speaker 1: was riddled with bishops who were extremely liberal, and he
Speaker 1: and Pote Benedict, I think helped with sort of this
Speaker 1: worldwide revitalization of the global body of bishops. I think
Speaker 1: bishops today and priests today are on the whole far
Speaker 1: better than they were thirty years ago. So you had
Speaker 1: these two men who were giants, intellectual giants. Benedict, who
Speaker 1: was always had this sort of reputation in the media
Speaker 1: God's Rottweiler, and because he was German, no he was,
Speaker 1: But in reality Pope Benedict was actually this bookish, very
Speaker 1: gentle man who was very kind and went about his
Speaker 1: work as pope with enormous genuine humility, I would say
Speaker 1: so so much humility that Benedict in twenty thirteen becomes
Speaker 1: the first pope in like four hundred years to resign
Speaker 1: the office. He just resigned. Almost every pope prior to
Speaker 1: Pope Benedict died in office. Now a lot of that is,
Speaker 1: you know, people didn't live as long in the you know,
Speaker 1: prior to I don't know twentieth century, twenty first century medicine.
Speaker 1: But Pope Benedict just decided he was going to resign.
Speaker 1: And I think part of it was he under John
Speaker 1: Paul the second the way that you know, JP two
Speaker 1: had this very long, extended period of convalesce of illness
Speaker 1: with his Parkinson's and I think Paul Benedict thought it
Speaker 1: wasn't good for the governance of the church to have
Speaker 1: a pope who was you know, was he at a commission?
Speaker 1: Was he completely out of commission? And I think Benedict
Speaker 1: just didn't want that. So in twenty thirteen he just
Speaker 1: resigned and a very different pope got elected after him,
Speaker 1: Pope Francis Jorge Mario Bergoglio. Uh. There's apparently a Roman
Speaker 1: saying after a fat pope a thin pope, which it's
Speaker 1: not literal necessarily, it just means every pope's different. You
Speaker 1: know what, You get something very different every time you
Speaker 1: elect a new pope, and Cardinal Bergoglio was certainly different.
Speaker 1: He didn't have the kind of intellectual standing that Pope
Speaker 1: Benedict had. I don't think even he would argue. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't argue that. I think even he would acknowledge Pope
Speaker 1: Benedict was was a far more important thinker and a
Speaker 1: more a far more important theologian, et cetera. And he
Speaker 1: clearly had certain things he really wanted to do that
Speaker 1: I think were quite unsuccessful and led to sort of
Speaker 1: a muddled magisterium. As we call it in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: The magisterium means the teaching, the deposit of what you taught. Okay,
Speaker 1: comes from the Latin word magister, which means teacher or maestro.
Speaker 1: You know, maestro comes from magister or master. Pope Francis's
Speaker 1: magisterium was complicated and not sitting very comfortably within the
Speaker 1: broader body of Catholic tradition, particularly in the area of
Speaker 1: sexual ethics. In the area of sexual ethics, Pope Francis
Speaker 1: had a document called Amoris Letitia the Joy of love
Speaker 1: is what it means. Some people rudely joke that as
Speaker 1: so the way that when a pope issues a teaching document,
Speaker 1: the title of the document is always just like the
Speaker 1: first few words of the document. So amoris leticia means
Speaker 1: the joy of love. However, there are different ways of
Speaker 1: translating amour and leatiticia. Some rude commenters said, oh, doesn't
Speaker 1: mean the pleasure of sex. Okay, Now, that was basically
Speaker 1: what this document did. It was talking about the situation
Speaker 1: of people who are divorced and remarried. In Catholicism, our
Speaker 1: teaching is that marriage is life long and we don't
Speaker 1: respect divorce and remarriage. The only way one can get
Speaker 1: divorced within the Catholic concept is if there's a determination
Speaker 1: that your original marriage was never valid to begin with.
Speaker 1: If one can have a declaration of nullity that your
Speaker 1: original marriage was null and void. For some reason, there
Speaker 1: were a lot of people agitating for the idea that
Speaker 1: people who are divorced and remarried and never had any
Speaker 1: sort of declaration that their first marriage was null, that
Speaker 1: they should be allowed to receive Holy communion. Holy communion
Speaker 1: the Catholic sacrament of the Eucharist, which we believe is
Speaker 1: the body and blood of Christ. Pope Francis, in this
Speaker 1: document Memoris Letitia gave this sort of ambiguous footnote saying,
Speaker 1: maybe there are circumstances where people can receive Holy Communion
Speaker 1: if they're divorced and remarried, and it just doesn't sit
Speaker 1: very well within the broader body of Catholic moral theology,
Speaker 1: particularly the moral theology of John Paul the Second. And
Speaker 1: it's clear with something that very liberal bishops were pushing
Speaker 1: him to allow, pushing, pushing, pushing him to allow, and
Speaker 1: it just sort of sat there like this sort of
Speaker 1: awkward It's a square peg in a round hole. Similarly,
Speaker 1: in the area of church discipline, Pope Francis very famously
Speaker 1: decided in twenty twenty one to undo the various permissions
Speaker 1: that Pope Benedict had provided for priests to offer the
Speaker 1: older right of the Catholic Mass, the traditional Latin Mass.
Speaker 1: Now you can so, Pope Benedict had said, every priest
Speaker 1: in the world can offer this older form of mass,
Speaker 1: the form of Mass that existed prior to the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: There's nothing harmful about it. A lot of people like it.
Speaker 1: It allowed to have it continued to be a part
Speaker 1: of the Church's life, allows us to have a connection
Speaker 1: with our history. There's nothing harmful about it. And Pope
Speaker 1: Francis said, no, we're not doing that, and he very
Speaker 1: largely restricted how and when and who could offer this
Speaker 1: form of the Catholic Mass in a way that was
Speaker 1: very unpopular I think with many many bishops throughout the world.
Speaker 1: In fact, many many bishops throughout the world just basically
Speaker 1: sort of ignored it and thought it was an unworkable
Speaker 1: micromanaging system, Like priests had to personally write to Rome
Speaker 1: to ask if they could have permission off from Mass
Speaker 1: once or something. Bishops would have to write Rome, hey,
Speaker 1: can we allow one Latin Mass to happen at Saint
Speaker 1: Peter's parish in Valparaiso, Indiana, or you know, something like that,
Speaker 1: And again it seemed like it was something that was
Speaker 1: driven by left wing ideologues within the Vatican who hated
Speaker 1: the old Mass who I don't know why. I guess
Speaker 1: they wanted the modern right of Mass to be this
Speaker 1: sort of whole theological revolution that completely changes what we
Speaker 1: believe as Catholics, which is not what the modern right
Speaker 1: of Mass should be. I would hope that the Catholic
Speaker 1: faith is the same today as it was one hundred
Speaker 1: years ago, as it once two hundred years ago, as
Speaker 1: it was three hundred years ago, as it was two
Speaker 1: thousand years ago. I mean, that's genuinely what I believe.
Speaker 1: So he has also, in various ways antagonized different groups.
Speaker 1: One of the big ways in which one of the
Speaker 1: big reasons Pope Francis was elected was this idea that
Speaker 1: he would reform the Roman Curia, that basically the apparatus
Speaker 1: of bishops and priests who help the Pope in the Vatican,
Speaker 1: to reform the way in which that works. There had
Speaker 1: been a scandal of someone leaking the pope's private documents
Speaker 1: under Pope Benedict, and I think it's a mixed bag
Speaker 1: of whether people think Pote Francis actually accomplished that there
Speaker 1: was this desire to reform the financial state of the Vatican.
Speaker 1: At first, Pote Francis appointed Cardinal George Pell from Australia
Speaker 1: to do all kinds of auditing work. Cardinal Pell was
Speaker 1: getting somewhere, and then Cardinal Pell gets sidelined. Cardinal Pell
Speaker 1: was hit with one of the most patently ridiculous claims
Speaker 1: of sex abuse, and I genuinely mean that. I think
Speaker 1: his claim was ridiculous, and he was ultimately vindicated in
Speaker 1: court and the court found that unanimously. No, he did
Speaker 1: not engage in that, but it derailed his I think
Speaker 1: really excellent efforts to help with an audit of Vatican finances,
Speaker 1: and the Vatican is in terrible financial shape right now.
Speaker 1: But Francis also did some good things. He issued an
Speaker 1: excellent document that was very clear, called Dignitas Infinita, which
Speaker 1: very clearly and concisely condemned gender ideology and all of
Speaker 1: its expressions, transgenderism, gener is, transgender, all the whole panoply
Speaker 1: of transgender issues. However, about six months prior to that,
Speaker 1: he had ordered one of his new cardinal appointees, an
Speaker 1: appointee that a lot of people, a lot of bishops,
Speaker 1: were not thrilled about, to issue some document about the
Speaker 1: possibility of blessing gay persons, blessing gay couples, not not
Speaker 1: their union, but the couple, the two of gay people together,
Speaker 1: which seemed like it was an attempt again by left
Speaker 1: wing theologians who want gay marriage to be recognized by
Speaker 1: the Church and want some sort of halfway house in
Speaker 1: to say, oh, well, priests can give blessings to gay couples.
Speaker 1: And after that document was issued by the Vatican, there
Speaker 1: was a total uproar. The bishops of Africa said, abso
Speaker 1: flippin' we're not even sure what this is saying, but
Speaker 1: we are absolutely not doing this, and both Francis pretty
Speaker 1: much totally backed down. And I think that this might
Speaker 1: be the legacy that I don't know how successful to
Speaker 1: France's papacy was. I think in comparison to the giants
Speaker 1: that were John Paul the Second and Benedict the sixteenth,
Speaker 1: I don't know that Francis will stand at their levels.
Speaker 1: It's not to say he's a terrible person. I think
Speaker 1: he wanted to reach out to people he viewed his marginalized,
Speaker 1: divorced and remarried people, to have them feel like they're
Speaker 1: part of the church in some way, people who have
Speaker 1: same sex attraction but want to be part of the church.
Speaker 1: He wanted them to people he viewed as put upon,
Speaker 1: like migrants. He wanted to express care for them. But
Speaker 1: in so doing, I think he just wasn't the clearest
Speaker 1: kind of moral theology, ethics thinker, and so I think
Speaker 1: his papacy sits in this very awkward place historically, and
Speaker 1: a lot will be determined by the next pote when
Speaker 1: we return. More thoughts on Pope Francis. This is the
Speaker 1: John Gerardy show on Power Talk. You know. One last
Speaker 1: thought on Pope Francis. One of the big aspects of
Speaker 1: his papacy that he pushed and again is a thing
Speaker 1: where it's unclear how stable this will be, was his
Speaker 1: idea of quote synodality. Throughout the Francis papacy, he would
Speaker 1: hold these things called synods s yno d synod, which
Speaker 1: was basically a gathering of a group of the world's
Speaker 1: bishops to discuss something or other. Pope Benedict had done these,
Speaker 1: but John Paul the Second had done these synods every
Speaker 1: couple of years. That was basically a gathering of bishops
Speaker 1: to talk about some specific topic. They would meet, they
Speaker 1: would talk, they would issue some document, and the Pope
Speaker 1: would have a document that he wrote after the fact,
Speaker 1: and it was usually very low stakes. You know, no
Speaker 1: one was really too hyped up about them. Francis's synods were,
Speaker 1: especially early in his papacy, the subject of huge scrutiny,
Speaker 1: huge media attention, he had a whole senate about this
Speaker 1: idea of persons who are divorced and remarried and whether
Speaker 1: they should receive communion, and people yelling at each other
Speaker 1: during the Senate, and manipulation of the process to make
Speaker 1: sure that talk about divorce and remarried people was in
Speaker 1: the final document, and changing the rules of the last
Speaker 1: all kinds of intrigue and stuff like that, And eventually
Speaker 1: Pope Francis kept doing these synods where every basically every
Speaker 1: liberal in the Church was trying to use these synods
Speaker 1: as some forum for instituting some new liberal desired outcome,
Speaker 1: to the point where Pope Francis had a I'm not
Speaker 1: making this up a synod on synodality where we were
Speaker 1: talking about the process of having synods in the church
Speaker 1: and how important it is this thing that is is
Speaker 1: not really an essential thing, that we Catholics don't even
Speaker 1: think it's an essential thing. So and I think the
Speaker 1: response of a lot of bishops throughout the world to
Speaker 1: it has been not a ton of enthusiasm that this
Speaker 1: is the greatest idea in the world. So it's another
Speaker 1: thing where if a new pope is elected who is
Speaker 1: not crazy about such an idea does it all go away?
Speaker 1: I mean, it was this huge cornerstone project of Francis's
Speaker 1: entire papacy, but it's not clear to me how popular
Speaker 1: it really is among the broader body of bishops. And ultimately,
Speaker 1: over time the synods became more and more sort of
Speaker 1: moderating because well, you have to have African bishops there,
Speaker 1: and god knows they're they're all a bunch of right wingers.
Speaker 1: They don't want any big changes. So anyway, I thought
Speaker 1: it was it's interesting the way in which you have
Speaker 1: these cardinals. While Francis is alive, you have these cardinals. Oh,
Speaker 1: the citidelity is an essential feature of the Catholic Church,
Speaker 1: and it's here. Well, you know, one pope dies and
Speaker 1: that can change, and it will be very interesting to see.
Speaker 1: All Right, when we return, I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: some of the guys who might be elected the next pope.
Speaker 1: We'll see that's next on the John Girardi Show. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go through a list of cardinals who
Speaker 1: might be elected the next pope. All right, Now, there
Speaker 1: is no guarantee that anyone on this list is in
Speaker 1: fact going to be elected pope. One of the funny
Speaker 1: things about the process of papal elections. So the way
Speaker 1: it works, the cardinals are, for the most part, senior
Speaker 1: bishops who run big cities. Who are the bishops administering
Speaker 1: a large diocese as we call it, basically the unit
Speaker 1: of organization that oversees all the churches of a city
Speaker 1: or a region. So for example, Bishop Brennan is the
Speaker 1: Bishop of Fresno, which includes everything from Livingston up north
Speaker 1: to Bishop in the South, Okay and Barstow. So you
Speaker 1: have two kinds of cardinals. You have cardinals who are
Speaker 1: senior archbishops in big cities around the world. So for example,
Speaker 1: the Archbishop of New York is a cardinal. The Archbishop
Speaker 1: of Chicago is a cardinal. The Archbishop of Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: Is a cardinal. I think Houston has a cardinal. Los
Speaker 1: Angeles had a cardinal for years, but for some reason
Speaker 1: Francis never made Archbishop Gomez a cardinal. And then you
Speaker 1: have some cardinals who work directly in the Vatican, live
Speaker 1: in Rome and they assist the pope. So there are
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty two cardinals in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: You only get to vote if you're under age eighty.
Speaker 1: I forget if the line is when you turn eighty
Speaker 1: you become ineligible or when you turn eighty one. But anyway,
Speaker 1: of the two hundred and fifty two cardinals in the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church, one hundred and thirty five of them are
Speaker 1: eligible to vote. So the Pope is almost certainly going
Speaker 1: to be picked from that group of one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty five cardinals who are of voting age. Presumably you
Speaker 1: don't want to elect a pope who's over the age
Speaker 1: of eighty, So that's the group. So how old is
Speaker 1: the pope going to be? Probably about seventy that's my guess.
Speaker 1: Maybe late sixties, early seventies. The last two popes have
Speaker 1: been actually a good bit older than that. Pope Benedict
Speaker 1: was seventy eight when he was elected Pope. Pope Francis
Speaker 1: was seventy seven when he was elected. Pope. Popes live
Speaker 1: a lot longer now than they used to, So you
Speaker 1: might have a pope then I might be a little
Speaker 1: too early, maybe a pope around age seventy five. So
Speaker 1: and part of that is I don't know that the
Speaker 1: cardinals are crazy about the idea of a twenty eight
Speaker 1: year long a thirty year long papacy. John Paul the
Speaker 1: Second was a real outlier. He was only I think
Speaker 1: he was like fifty eight or fifty nine when he
Speaker 1: was elected pope, and you know, consequently he wound up
Speaker 1: serving nineteen seventy eight to two thousand and five, so
Speaker 1: I think about twenty seven years. It's not clear that
Speaker 1: the pope that the cardinals want another pope who's going
Speaker 1: to live that long, So probably you'll get a pope
Speaker 1: a little older. The funny thing is that literally any
Speaker 1: single Catholic man can be elected pope, and it's happened
Speaker 1: before that someone who wasn't even a priest got elected pope.
Speaker 1: Mostly that happened in like you know, the Middle Ages
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then the guy would be ordained a priest,
Speaker 1: and then ordained a bishop and then made a pope.
Speaker 1: But in all likelihood, one of the one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty five cardinals who are picked to elect the pope
Speaker 1: will be chosen as the next pope. So I have
Speaker 1: here a list. I don't know who published this stupid thing,
Speaker 1: but it's there's one name on it that's completely stupid,
Speaker 1: but the others make sense. So I'm going to use
Speaker 1: this list as sort of who do people think are
Speaker 1: the leading candidates to be the next Pope. I'll give
Speaker 1: you some of their names and a little bit of
Speaker 1: their backgrounds. So the first name on the list is stupid.
Speaker 1: It's Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, whom I really like. He's the
Speaker 1: former Archbishop of Genoa, Italy. He's a great man and
Speaker 1: it would I think would have been a great pope
Speaker 1: in prior years. The problem is he's eighty two years old.
Speaker 1: I don't know who put this list together. Probably they're
Speaker 1: sort of Italian centric, and Cardinal Bandangasco's a very significant
Speaker 1: figure in Italian catholic in the world of Italian Catholicism,
Speaker 1: but he's eighty two years old. He can't even vote
Speaker 1: for Pope let alone. I highly doubt he's going to
Speaker 1: be elected Pope, so that's probably not happening all right.
Speaker 1: Cardinal Matteo Zupi Cardinal Zupi is currently the Archbishop of
Speaker 1: Bologna in Italy. He had been an auxiliary bishop of
Speaker 1: the City of Rome before that. He's very close to
Speaker 1: Pope Francis. Francis has utilized him as his personal envoy
Speaker 1: to Ukraine for trying to help broker different peace talks
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. Unclear how successful he's actually been in those ventures.
Speaker 1: He's thought to be a bit more of a moral
Speaker 1: theology liberal. He was very friendly though, and open to
Speaker 1: people who wanted to celebrate the older Latin right of Mass.
Speaker 1: He's thought to be more of a liberal Pope. Cardinal
Speaker 1: Robert Sarah spelled like Sarah Sarah, but I guess it's
Speaker 1: pronounced Sarah. He is from Guinea, the country of Guinea,
Speaker 1: and he worked in the Vatican as the chief Bishop
Speaker 1: in charge of overseeing the liturgy the church's public worship.
Speaker 1: He is a huge proponent of the old Latin Mass.
Speaker 1: He's seventy seven years old, which frankly is a I
Speaker 1: think he's seventy seven. He's either seventy seven or seventy eight.
Speaker 1: Pope Francis was seventy seven when he was elected, but
Speaker 1: Benedict was seventy eight when he was elected. Cardinal Sarrah
Speaker 1: is thought to be the leading conservative or the most
Speaker 1: conservative person, sort of the desired person for the most
Speaker 1: conservative people. If Cardinal Sarrah was elected Pope, I would
Speaker 1: probably cry, okay, like with happiness. He's extremely conservative. I
Speaker 1: think he's actually personally, very holy person, a very pious person,
Speaker 1: and he's a pretty deep thinker. He's written several books
Speaker 1: that I've that I have. I think he studied, he
Speaker 1: did a lot of biblical theology study. I think in
Speaker 1: Jerusalem they have like a biblical institute there that he
Speaker 1: got like two master's degrees from there. So I would
Speaker 1: love if Cardinal Sorah was elected. He's seventy seven, but
Speaker 1: he's a healthy seventy seventy, skinny as a rail, looks
Speaker 1: like he's in great shape. So I'm I mean, that
Speaker 1: would be the best case scenario in my eyes. Cardinal
Speaker 1: Luis Tagle, he's a former Archbishop of Manila. He has
Speaker 1: sort of bopped around in different jobs in the in
Speaker 1: Pope Francis's curia, Cardinal Tagle was sort of thought to
Speaker 1: be like early on, he was thought to be Pope
Speaker 1: Francis's anointed successor, like not annoying, not literally annoys I
Speaker 1: recognized with the Catholic Church, you might think that's literal. No,
Speaker 1: Pope Francis obviously really liked him early and he kind
Speaker 1: of seemed to have fell fallen out of favor with
Speaker 1: Pope Francis. He had a more important job and kind
Speaker 1: of got kicked to a less important job. He's only
Speaker 1: let's see, how old is he. He's only sixty seven,
Speaker 1: so in pope year, that's pretty young. So you could
Speaker 1: be looking at a twenty year papacy with him. Do
Speaker 1: the College of Cardinals want a twenty year papacy? Seems unclear.
Speaker 1: He kind of had a real sort of media profile.
Speaker 1: Cardinals don't seem to like people who are flashy. He's
Speaker 1: a very smart guy, sort of thought to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more liberal. He had been made a cardinal
Speaker 1: under Pope Benedict, so, but some people think he's more
Speaker 1: aligned with sort of Pope Francis's ways of thinking. He
Speaker 1: studied in the United States. He got a doctor in
Speaker 1: theology from Catholic University of America. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think he's a little too young, a little too flashy,
Speaker 1: sort of lost favor under Pope Francis, So I don't
Speaker 1: think that's happening. All right, I'm gonna go a little
Speaker 1: faster here. Cardinal Pietro Pauoline, he might be one of
Speaker 1: the leading candidates. He's currently the papal Sectioncretary of State,
Speaker 1: and I think he's been sort of trying to position
Speaker 1: himself as less kind of chaotic than Pope Francis, but
Speaker 1: kind of aligned with his more liberal thinking. He's sort
Speaker 1: of an institutionalist again, he's the Secretary of State. Not
Speaker 1: not clear though, how great he's been in relations with
Speaker 1: other countries. One of the very popular candidates to write
Speaker 1: and think and talk about is Cardinal Pierre Battista Pizza Bala. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's actually his name. He has the most Italian name
Speaker 1: of any cardinal ever, Pierre Battista Pizzabala. Yes, his name
Speaker 1: is Pizza Bala. So he is the Patriarch of Jerusalem,
Speaker 1: the main Roman Catholic bishop in Jerusalem. So it's not
Speaker 1: a very large diocese. Not too many Roman Catholics in
Speaker 1: Jerusalem and in Israel basically, but there's a significant number there.
Speaker 1: And Cardinal Pizza Bala has sort of stood out for
Speaker 1: his sort of presence and his desire to help assuage
Speaker 1: the Israel Palestine conflict. He actually offered himself. He said
Speaker 1: that he would willingly exchange himself in exchange for the
Speaker 1: hostages that Hamas took. On October seventh, he made that
Speaker 1: offer to Hamas to exchange himself for some of the victims,
Speaker 1: which was a very sort of noble thing. He is
Speaker 1: himself a former Franciscan. He was a Franciscan priest before
Speaker 1: he was made a bishop, and he's a very intelligent man,
Speaker 1: seems very conservaive. A lot of Conservatives actually really really
Speaker 1: like him. Another cardinal that I really like is the
Speaker 1: Archbishop of Utrecht or Utrecht, I don't know how you
Speaker 1: pronounce it in the Netherlands, Cardinal villem Ike. I really
Speaker 1: like him. He's actually a former he was a doctor.
Speaker 1: He was a medical doctor. He was an internal medicine
Speaker 1: doc before he became a Catholic priest. And he's a
Speaker 1: great bioethicist. He's very much kind of aligned with Pope Benedict.
Speaker 1: He reportedly pushed Pope Francis to issue what I think
Speaker 1: was the best sort of teaching document of the Francis papacy.
Speaker 1: This was the document about transgenderism. It touched on transgenderism
Speaker 1: along with a number of other issues. That was really clear.
Speaker 1: And I think Cardinal Ike would be a great pope.
Speaker 1: I really hope. I mean, if he were elected, I
Speaker 1: would be quite happy. The Archbishop of Sri Lanka, Malcolm
Speaker 1: Ranjieth is another possibility would be our first sort of
Speaker 1: South Asian pope. Ever, we've had popes from like Asia
Speaker 1: minor like you know, Roman, Roman controlled Turkey, but I believe,
Speaker 1: but I don't think we've uh, you know, had a
Speaker 1: pope from you know, South Asia before. He used to
Speaker 1: be in charge of the church's sort of liturgical office
Speaker 1: or or he sort of oversaw liturgical things. So he's
Speaker 1: had experience in Rome, he's had experience as a diocesan bishop,
Speaker 1: I think, and overseeing some very hairy stuff in Sri Lanka.
Speaker 1: Relations between Catholics and non Catholics there are dicey, So
Speaker 1: I think he would also be a great pick as pope.
Speaker 1: So who is the most likely pick? Hard to say.
Speaker 1: I think the most likely pick it could be someone
Speaker 1: completely not on that list. Okay, that's I. You know,
Speaker 1: John Paul the Second when he was elected, was completely
Speaker 1: to left field. Nobody knew who he was and basically
Speaker 1: nobody knew how to pronounce his name. Apparently, one of
Speaker 1: the funny stories about John Paul the Second was that
Speaker 1: Billy Graham had happened to had met to have met him.
Speaker 1: Billy Graham happened to have met him before he was
Speaker 1: elected pope, when John Paul the Second was the Archbishop
Speaker 1: of Krakov in Poland, and so Billy Graham was on
Speaker 1: TV or something and was like the only person who
Speaker 1: knew how to pronounce his name. His name was pronounced
Speaker 1: Voi tiwa, but it spelled wojtyla. So anyway, Billy Graham
Speaker 1: was like the only person in America who knew how
Speaker 1: to pronounce the new pope's name. John Paul the Second
Speaker 1: was completely out of left field, a pope from behind
Speaker 1: the iron curtain, totally unexpected fifty eight years old, not
Speaker 1: when anyone thought Boe Benedict, on the other hand, was
Speaker 1: totally expected the obvious successor to John Paul the Second,
Speaker 1: so much so that apparently some people had nicknamed Cardinal
Speaker 1: rat singer John Paul the Third. So I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 1: I think it could be one of the people on
Speaker 1: this list, but we will see when we return. Jd
Speaker 1: Vance just can't catch a break. Next on the John
Speaker 1: Girardi Show, jd Vance just can't catch a break. So
Speaker 1: Jade Vance. First, he meets with Ohio State with the
Speaker 1: national championship team because he's an Ohio State grad and
Speaker 1: he holds and drops the national Championship trophy. Then literally
Speaker 1: literally yesterday, he meets Pope Francis, he has an audience
Speaker 1: with Pope Francis, and Pope Francis dies the next day.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's him, Maybe he's the problem. Good Lord, I
Speaker 1: will say though, for Jadvan jade Vance is a recent
Speaker 1: Catholic convert must have been. I mean, that's gonna be experience.
Speaker 1: He's never gonna forget to go to the Vatican for
Speaker 1: Holy Week to get to meet Pope Francis like the
Speaker 1: day before he died. Quite the thing for Jdvans, I'm
Speaker 1: a little envious. That'll do it, John J already show
Speaker 1: see you next time on Power Talk