WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.160 We die or welcome, thank you, glad to be here. 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:09.080 In your book Esoteric Hollywood, Sex, Cults and Symbols and Film, 3 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:12.560 you take a look at a variety of Hollywood films, 4 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:17.280 including films by Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock, the James Bond series, 5 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:22.960 among many others, and explore the secret messaging and symbology 6 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:27.280 embodied in them. Why do you use the term esoteric 7 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.679 to describe many of these films. 8 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.200 That's a good question. I wasn't exactly sure what I 9 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:35.520 was going to toddle the book, so I had a 10 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:39.719 bunch of different possible titles, and that one sounded to 11 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:43.079 me the most mysterious. But I think it's also fitting 12 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:47.960 because esoteric course refers to something hidden or secret, and 13 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:49.640 what I try what I tried to do in the 14 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:54.920 book was kind of unveil those hidden secret aspects to film, 15 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:57.479 be it the symbolism that you mentioned, or be it 16 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:02.280 the realities behind screen screenwriters and their connections at times 17 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.959 to the CIA or the Pentagon and espionage, and lay 18 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.000 it all out. I tried to come at film from 19 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.000 a lot of different levels, and so I felt like 20 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.519 that was the most appropriate title, And I think I'd 21 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.319 already kind of been playing around with a podcast with 22 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:18.560 a similar title. 23 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:24.599 You write that Hollywood has been described as the new Babylon. 24 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:29.799 What does this analogy signify, that is to say, what 25 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.400 are the parallels between Hollywood and what is understood to 26 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:36.319 have been Babylon, the ancient pagan empire? 27 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:41.079 Right? Well, if we think about the way that the 28 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:43.719 Book of Genesis, for example, describes the Tower of Babel 29 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:48.280 and then eventually the empire Babylon during the days of 30 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.920 many of the Prophets and the Old Testament, we have 31 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:55.760 the idea of an oppressive kind of super state, right 32 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.719 that was deified or worshiped. One of the aspects that 33 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.480 was central to that power structure was the mythology behind 34 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.239 those empires. Every empire has its own mythology, and I 35 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.280 would say that that translates into the present day. The 36 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.560 British Empire had its mythology, and the American Empire has 37 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.000 its mythology as well. And one of the ways in 38 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:20.360 which that mythology is inculcated into the population or indoctrinated 39 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.439 into the population is their storytelling. And of course in 40 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:27.439 our day that is Hollywood. So many writers, as you said, 41 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.840 have in the past, most notably Kenneth Anger with his 42 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.680 kind of sex scandal book Hollywood Babylon. I thought it 43 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:39.199 was an appropriate image, but I wanted to expand beyond 44 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:42.080 just you know, lurid sex tales and take it into 45 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.360 the direction also of understanding how we're given our mythology 46 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.199 by the Pentagon, by the CIA and their influence. And 47 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.840 it's not totally the Cia, obviously Pentagon. It's also you know, 48 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:58.560 people creating stories and using their creativity, but unfortunately a 49 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.680 lot of times the state co OPI that the corporate state, 50 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:05.759 and gives us messages that they want inserted into films 51 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.639 as well. So it's a mix of both, and that's 52 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.560 why Babylon is I think an appropriate image. And if 53 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:17.280 you go to Hollywood you'll see the old sets from 54 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:20.960 I think, what is it did Griffith's Griffith's Intolerance film, 55 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:25.199 which is from Babylon. It's the architecture of a Babylon 56 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:26.159 from films that. 57 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.879 Well, then how would you describe the mythology of ancient 58 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.680 Babylon and how it relates to Hollywood. 59 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:40.479 Well, one analogy would be what the Babylonians were famous 60 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.599 for was, of course astrology, you know, the Chaldeans as well. 61 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:48.400 And the idea here was that we follow the stars, 62 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:51.520 who are in a way representations or the pathways of 63 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:55.000 the gods. And the way we would make an analogy 64 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:59.080 to Hollywood is that in the twentieth century, psychological warfare 65 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:03.000 and social engineers developed the pretty direct parallel to the 66 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:09.439 idea that the Hollywood stars could be the new trend 67 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.199 setters that we would follow. So they're almost like a 68 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.040 replacement for astrology in a way, like literally following the stars. 69 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:20.319 And that was actually the studied and designed by admin 70 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:23.720 marketing men, a lot of whom came out of the OSS, 71 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:27.160 which is of course the predecessor to the CIA, And 72 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.079 so it's kind of a science. It's a technique. The 73 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.279 Rand Corporation and the Tavstock is they've all studied stuff 74 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:37.319 like this, so it relates to movies. And in a way, 75 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.120 you know, you can have this idea of Babylon as 76 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.040 the gait of the gods, right, the pantheon of the 77 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:49.600 celestial deities and whatnot, and Hollywood kind of represents that. 78 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.600 Now it's kind of a gate to the human gods, right, 79 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.360 or the superstars that we view as gods who we 80 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.560 think lived this far off heavenly lifestyle in Hollywood Hills 81 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:06.240 or something, and really, you know, this is all concocted lies. 82 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.160 You write that quote for Greece and in debased form, Rome, 83 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:16.600 the stage was sacred, where the dramaturgical interactions of the 84 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.800 gods were actually a form of magical invocation. Although the 85 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.680 idea of the theater as explicitly sacred is foreign to 86 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.439 the modernity, it was not for historic man, nor is 87 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:32.560 modern man's practice any less religious in regard to the theater. 88 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.240 Could you explain why you begin your book with film 89 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:37.120 as ritual. 90 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.959 Yes, I think that the sentence that you read there 91 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:47.800 is attempting to do that. And so because the ancient 92 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:54.319 world viewed the plays, you know, Sophocles or even perhaps 93 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.199 virtuals Ania or something like this, they were all viewed 94 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:03.879 as re enactments of the the actions and life of 95 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:07.439 the gods. And what that did was, at least in 96 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:10.279 the primitive mind, was you were you were kind of 97 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:14.879 representing that reality. You were bringing it out of the 98 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.360 Golden Age or the times past or something and bringing 99 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:22.079 it back into reality kind of invocation. And even in 100 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:26.519 for example, Plato's dialogues, you can read Ion where Socrates 101 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.040 has a dialogue with some musicians and people from the 102 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.720 theater and they talk about how what they really want 103 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.360 to do is to become possessed by the God or 104 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.399 to become another character. And this is essentially what method 105 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.399 acting is if you study Stanislavsky or method acting. So 106 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.600 there is a direct parallel, you know, whether one believes 107 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.399 that it really is some kind of possession of an 108 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:56.079 entity or just a you know, a very deep skill 109 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.959 that that one takes on another identity or lives out 110 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:05.040 another character. Either way, it's something that goes back to 111 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:08.800 the ancient world, and we don't know everything about, you know, 112 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.240 how drama was conducted in the ancient world, but it 113 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:13.480 was very similar to liturgy. And if you think about 114 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.319 a Catholic Mass, or if you think about an Orthodox 115 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.680 a worship service, a liturgy or something like this, the 116 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:23.160 ideas that we're acting out through the worship service events 117 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.439 that sort of transcend time and space. They bring the 118 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.759 celestial of the heavenly or the eternal down to the 119 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.759 here and the now. And although most people don't think 120 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.720 about movies in that way or theater in that way 121 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:37.839 more properly, that is bound up with the history of 122 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.480 theater and acting, and what. 123 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.680 Is the method, how is that taught? What does it encompass? 124 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.319 I have one book by if you're talk about Santezelawski's method, 125 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:52.920 you know this goes by the term method acting. Many 126 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.519 of the famous A listers are method actors. And I'm 127 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:58.360 by no means any kind of expert in this. I 128 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:02.519 just know that his one of his texts, he does 129 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:08.399 discuss techniques and patterns for kind of letting your conscious 130 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.720 mind sort of drift away into your subconscious and attempting 131 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.399 as best you can to allow the character that you're 132 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:17.519 trying to portray to kind of come to the fore. 133 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.160 So and then he gives a whole bunch of other 134 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.040 kinds of techniques of how to really perfect his craft. 135 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.720 So you know, I'm not I'm not a super expert 136 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.199 on Stanvezlowski. And there's plenty of people I'm sure who 137 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:33.159 you know, who went to various acting academies. And but 138 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.080 but if when you see somebody, for example, like Christian Bao, 139 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.799 if you remember in The Machinist, when he took on 140 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.559 that role, he got very very deathly thin, like he 141 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.759 got sickly thin to play this role Jeremy Irons, you know, 142 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:51.679 Robert de Niro. These are people who attempt to do 143 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:57.200 method acting, attempt to become the character, and sometimes they 144 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.960 can have a very deleterious effect on the body itself. 145 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:06.440 Yeah. I'm just thinking about a streetcar named Desire and 146 00:09:06.519 --> 00:09:11.519 what happened to the lead actress that played that role. 147 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:17.000 Was it Vivian Lee? That's right, Yeah, that affected her psychologically, right. 148 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:21.399 Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that there are several cases 149 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:24.799 in the history of film where or I guess Theater two, 150 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.000 but I'm more film that there's several cases where people 151 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:30.960 have said similar things. You know, the famous story of 152 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.399 Jack Nicholson telling Eith Ledger, beware playing the joker, it'll 153 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:38.639 mess with your psyche. And yeah, there have been cases 154 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:41.879 like this, and I think it's probably real. There's something 155 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:45.200 to it. It's not just you know, Hollywood legends or whatever. 156 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.919 In your book Esoteric Hollywood, the first film that you 157 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:53.519 take an in depth look at is Stanley Kubrick's last 158 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:58.320 film before he died, Eyes wide Shut. Throughout the film, 159 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.919 you write, the viewers eyes are wide shut to the 160 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.879 reality of the power structure. The power base is not 161 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:10.279 the average politician, wealthy doctor or a lawyer in New York, 162 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:14.120 which were the roles played by Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise. 163 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.080 What is the film saying about the real power base 164 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:19.240 in society? 165 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.600 I think Kubrick is consistently telling us about the real 166 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.399 power structure throughout his films. And you know, one can 167 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.720 debate to what degree this might have been involved in 168 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:34.840 his his death or not, and to what degree you know, 169 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.440 throughout his life Kubrick had to cooperate with the power structure, 170 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:40.960 like with NASA and the Air Force and making two 171 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.159 thousand and one. You know, that's all fine and well, 172 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.240 but I think that you know, when we see something 173 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:49.320 like eyeswait, shut, I think it's a direct illustration of, 174 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.399 as I said, the real power structure. So it's not politicians, 175 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:59.000 it's not presidents. These are as, doctor Carroll quickly said, frontmen. 176 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:03.399 They're the people who give the masses the impression that 177 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.759 they have a vote, that they have power, when in 178 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:10.559 fact the world is actually run by far more wealthy people, 179 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:16.440 oligarchs essentially. So if we consider the power structure, for example, 180 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:23.960 between behind the Catholic Church, it's pedophilia cases, and then 181 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.759 how that has connected to a lot of very powerful 182 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.360 politicians in various countries. This has been well documented by 183 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:34.000 court cases and journalists for many decades. Now, I think 184 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.200 that we get to see an insight in Kubrick's given 185 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.559 us an insight into that very point that the real 186 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.879 power structure is more like billionaires in the sense of, 187 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:47.399 you know, something like Blofeld from the Bond stories, than 188 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:50.759 it is you know, Donald Trump or Barack Obama. They're 189 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.559 more so kind of front characters. 190 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:58.879 Now you've used the phrase a cryptocracy, a cryptocracy of 191 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.759 occult lie leads. So what does cryptocracy refer to? 192 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.639 This is a term that comes from a fairly well 193 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.919 known book by Walter Bowert, who wrote Operation Mind Control 194 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:16.840 as one of the early texts on the CIA's m 195 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:21.120 k lture program, right after John Marx wrote his books 196 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.279 CIA and The Search for the Mature in Candidate, two 197 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.799 books that are not conspiracy books for save but actually 198 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:31.000 do rely on you know, a lot of sourced evidence 199 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:37.919 and whatnot. So Bowert described the the secret shadow government 200 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.559 of the US, the cryptocracy, CIA, Scull and Bones all 201 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.279 those networks as a cryptocracy because of the fact that 202 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:50.480 they do essentially a cult or secret or hide their methodology. Now, 203 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.240 it doesn't mean that everything is secret. Some things they're secret, 204 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:56.480 somethings aren't. But a lot of times this stuff is 205 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:00.360 made public so you can find For example, doctor Jose 206 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.840 Delgado is one of the m culture doctors. His books 207 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.639 are public. He has a public book called Physical Control 208 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.399 of the Mind. And so you know, when Walter Bowart 209 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.720 wrote his book, he's saying, look, we can we can 210 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:16.720 look at what the cryptocracy has published, and even from 211 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.519 what's public, we can get clear enough idea into the 212 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.600 methodology of how the social engineers, how the think tanks, 213 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.159 how the d nng o's, how the the the academics, 214 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.360 how the technocrats, how they all kind have worked together 215 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:35.000 to foster the same overall goals, even though they might 216 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.080 at times have differences. 217 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.840 I'm speaking with author and radio and television host Jay 218 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:47.200 Dyer today's show foreshadowing ritual and symbology in film. I'm 219 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:54.679 Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and butter. Well, now I'm 220 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:59.919 hoping that people have seen Stanley Kubrick's Eyes Wide Show, 221 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.279 but otherwise they wouldn't know what we were talking about. 222 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:08.720 Could you sort of simplify the narrative of that film. 223 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:14.240 Yeah, Basically, it's the story up two of a couple 224 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:20.600 who's having marital sexual problems and their upper class, elite 225 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:25.559 sort of New York socialite level. He's a doctor, very 226 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:28.720 successful doctor, and she is an artist or an our teacher, 227 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:34.279 if I recall. And my thesis on the film is 228 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.000 that they view themselves as sort of the top of 229 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.120 the totem pole. You know, where else could you go? 230 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.000 We've got it all, we're at We're the elite in 231 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:45.840 a way. But they realize that they're encountering I guess, 232 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:51.039 somewhat typical marriage type issues, and the Tomkers character is 233 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:56.840 sort of tempted to find sexual gratification elsewhere, and this 234 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.919 sort of leads to a chain of events, a kind 235 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.960 of of snowballing effect of him kind of wandering around 236 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.440 outside of marriage on the town and encountering a series 237 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.919 of so called coincidences that lead him to this big 238 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.440 estate where there is a masked ball, sort of a 239 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:21.000 Renaissance style orgy going on at this elite estate. And 240 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:25.879 it does, I think, have very conscious satanic and Crollian 241 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.120 elements to the mask ball. It's very much a ritual. 242 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.360 I don't think there's any question about that, and that 243 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.120 I think suggests that many of the elite are into 244 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:42.879 these kinds of occult practices, especially something like the followers 245 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:49.639 of Croley. So what happens is that he goes through 246 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:56.600 the ritual, but he doesn't fully embrace the ritual. He's hesitant, 247 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.639 and he is essentially kicked out and found out to 248 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:02.279 be and interloper. Right. He's not welcome there. He didn't 249 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.000 have the secret password, the Tom Cruise character that is, 250 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.159 and so he heads back home and we are kind 251 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:13.720 of left with the unclear impression that maybe even his 252 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.840 wife was there, because she seems to know what he 253 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.120 was up to. She has a dream about this, and 254 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.200 of course many people who interpret the film they debate 255 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.159 whether or not either she had some sort of preternatural 256 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.080 suspicion of him being there or whether she actually was there. 257 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.279 It really doesn't matter because the point I think that 258 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.759 the Couper is trying to convey to us, in my view, 259 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.519 is that you know, the real world really does operate 260 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:42.120 like this. This is the real power structure of extremely 261 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:47.279 wealthy people who are far above politicians, and the rest 262 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.639 of the film's narrative, without giving too much away, if 263 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:53.399 you haven't seen it is that the cult essentially has 264 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.519 at its it has basically all the powers and functions 265 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.200 of an intelligence agency. They're able to have Tom Cruise's 266 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:05.640 character survey oled followed, they know everything about him, they 267 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.440 have moles everywhere, and they're able to even craft news 268 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:14.680 stories to cover up murders that the Cult is able 269 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.680 to engage in. And this is really what some writers 270 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.119 have called the CIA, the Cult of Intelligence right them, 271 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.039 that's who could pull all this stuff off. And as 272 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.960 many histories of espionage have noted, the CIA is more 273 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:31.400 like a private, private intelligence army for the Rockfellers. You know, 274 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.960 it is the Rockfellers and British intelligence who established the CIA. 275 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.440 So I think Cooper is roughly hinting at a lot 276 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.119 of these different things. It's a kind of an overall 277 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.400 portrayal of the power structure. And that's why he called 278 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.079 it eyes White shut, because most people just think that 279 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:52.440 the the world is ruled by politicians and bureaucrats, and 280 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:58.880 it's not. It's ruled by you know, extremely wealthy finance 281 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.519 capitalists and corporates. 282 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.119 You're right that both Polanski's The Ninth Gate and Kubrick's 283 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:10.519 Eyes Wide Shut were filmed in Rothschild mansions. I didn't 284 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:14.599 know that, I'm sure. 285 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.200 I'm trying to think off the top of my head. 286 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:19.960 I don't remember the name of the estate, but I 287 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.400 think I mentioned it either in the book or or 288 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:27.640 somewhere else. But yes, I think the Polanski one. It's 289 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.839 not presently owned by Rothchild's, but it wasn't one time. 290 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:35.880 And of course the Rothchilds owned multiple estates in Europe 291 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.119 throughout you know, the last several centuries. So so it's 292 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.119 not hard. It's not hard to believe, given the fact 293 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.920 that I mean that they had, like, you know, tons 294 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:50.000 of palaces. So but yes, it's also if I recall 295 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:56.079 the mansion that you see in Batman The Dark Knight, 296 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.799 the you know, Christopher Nolan, Kristen Bale Batman, that's also 297 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:05.799 the Rothchild estate there, and it has a very interesting history. 298 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:11.720 It's it's a in a state that the Beatles did 299 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:15.279 a lot of transcetal meditation with Maharishi mash Yogi with 300 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.799 so it's a very colorful history to that estate. And 301 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.599 I think it's since been sold off. It's not owned 302 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.000 by I think it's like an ucum, it's owned by 303 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.920 the state or something. It's not probably I don't think. 304 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:33.279 You mentioned in your book, and I just mentioned Polanski's 305 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:37.000 The Ninth Gate. Now, not only have I not seen 306 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.319 that movie, I wasn't even aware of it, but the 307 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.279 photos in your book, it looks like it's similar to 308 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.960 Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut? Is that. 309 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.920 I think so? I think they if I recalled they 310 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.799 both came out in nineteen ninety nine. They both have 311 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.759 very similar themes. Kubrick's film is not really interested in 312 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.400 the supernatural, and then the Plansky takes it in more 313 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:06.079 of a consciously supernatural and Luciferian route. So this is 314 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.880 another indicator. I would say that, you know, Polanski was 315 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:13.599 telling us things about the underground networks in the US 316 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.519 back when he did Rosemary's Baby, and I don't think 317 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.359 that he ceased telling us kind of what was going 318 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.599 on up into nineteen ninety nine with The Ninth Kate, 319 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.480 and so in ways, it's kind of a version of 320 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.960 Dante's Inferno, where the lead character Philip I think is 321 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.920 Philip Corso or something like that. The Johnny Depp character 322 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.640 is a book dealer who's led down into the underworld 323 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.960 and he meets various characters who are seeking Satanic or 324 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:49.519 Luciferian power, and without giving too much away, he discovers 325 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.519 it in a way that he neither heat nor anyone 326 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:53.519 else expects. 327 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:58.880 You know, you mentioned Polanski's Rosemary's Baby. That was a 328 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:05.279 powerful thing. I've seen that several times. That was really creepy. 329 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.680 It is pretty creepy. I had, In fact, we did 330 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.440 an episode of Hollywood Dakota, my TV show on it, 331 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.400 and I think they cut that one, which kind of 332 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:16.799 sucks because I think it would have been a really 333 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.359 really cool episode, but it never it never made it 334 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.200 to airing, so and I think they cut it because 335 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:28.799 they decided it was too dark for Guya's streaming network, So, 336 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.519 you know whatever. But it is a creepy film. I 337 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.200 think in ways we've got back and watch it now, 338 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:36.960 it's kind of silly, it's kind of cheesy, but there 339 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.920 still is a creepy element to it, especially when you know, 340 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.160 you look at the Dakota Building where it's filmed, and 341 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.279 the weird history of the Dakota Building with the assassination 342 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:51.440 of John Lennon and other weird films that have been 343 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:56.960 filmed there. If you watch Vanilla Sky, I don't think 344 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:02.160 it's accidental that they put Tom Cruise is kind of 345 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:07.920 fancy condo in the Dakota building, which isn't a weird element. 346 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.720 I haven't really gotten to Vanoskay yet, but it definitely 347 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:15.400 deserves someone else's. And then of course you have the 348 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.400 the overtly you know, satanic element of trying to bring 349 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.039 in the Satanic aon with the impregnation of the mia 350 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:26.799 Faro character. And but I think we can't forget the 351 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:28.519 other element that a lot of people forget, which is 352 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.599 that her husband, who's in on it, his whole reasoning 353 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.440 for all of this is because he wants to make 354 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.359 it in Hollywood. So he wants to be a famous 355 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.599 actor in Hollywood. And part of his reason for going 356 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:45.880 along with this is that the Satanists in Hollywood can 357 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.720 hook him up if he goes along with, you know, 358 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:53.319 with the plan, with their plan for Rosemary. 359 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.000 You know, what I thought was very interesting and original 360 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:02.279 about Rosemary's Baby was the portry of the Satanists. They 361 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.160 were almost comical and sort of pedestrian, right, which was 362 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.279 a real kind of an interesting twist some people. Yeah, 363 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.640 a couple that could actually blend in with the general population, 364 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:16.319 and you would never suspect a thing. 365 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.400 That is an interesting point. Yeah, most of the time 366 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:25.240 you kind of had this cartoonish, silly portrayal. And if 367 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:29.119 I recall, I think Anton Levy was the consultant and 368 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.279 is who's wearing the beast costume in the in the 369 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:38.119 scenes with Rosemary so in the bed. So yeah, I 370 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.559 think that probably in the mind of Leavey, who was 371 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.559 also a very cartoonish character, he would wear you know, 372 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.079 satanic costumes and whatnot, look like something from a B movie. 373 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.359 But maybe at the same time he was also you know, 374 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:57.720 consulting that look. Satanism can also take on a very subtle, 375 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.240 mundane appearance as well. 376 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.000 That's very interesting. I didn't know that Levey was associated 377 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.480 with that film. I had no idea about that. You know, 378 00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:12.519 while we're on the subject of Roman Polanski, in my view, 379 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:16.839 he's such an excellent, excellent director and one of the 380 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:21.240 greatest movies ever made in my opinion, is Chinatown. Chinatown, 381 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.599 and he directed that. 382 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:29.519 Yeah. We actually, surprisingly the Hollywood Decoded episode that did 383 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.799 make it through from Polanski was the Chinatown episode. So 384 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.880 I'm very proud of myself and Jay Widner in terms 385 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:42.680 of the episode that we filmed about Chinatown, which if 386 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.000 you're not aware, I have a TV show with filmmaker 387 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.559 Jay Widner on The Guy at TV Network, which you 388 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:50.680 can you can watch on Amazon Prime or through Guy 389 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.400 or whatever. But we did I think twenty something episode 390 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:58.160 nineteen twenty episodes of film analysis, very similar to what's 391 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:02.720 in the book, and one of the episodes plans Ky's Chinatown, 392 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.319 and I think, once again, you know, whatever you think 393 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.640 of Polansky, we do have an insight into the power 394 00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.160 structure because there it's the Los Angeles power structure William 395 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:17.880 Holland and kind of a commentary on how Los Angeles 396 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.000 in the I think it's in the twenties, if I recall, 397 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:28.559 came to be through corporate subterfuge, through the privatization of water, 398 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.240 and it was just a very crazy, wild story which 399 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.759 is loosely based in reality. That's not exactly true, but 400 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:37.559 there are some weird parallels as well, with the fact 401 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.640