1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: We die or welcome, thank you, glad to be here. 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: In your book Esoteric Hollywood, Sex, Cults and Symbols and Film, 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,560 you take a look at a variety of Hollywood films, 4 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:17,280 including films by Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock, the James Bond series, 5 00:00:17,719 --> 00:00:22,960 among many others, and explore the secret messaging and symbology 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,280 embodied in them. Why do you use the term esoteric 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,679 to describe many of these films. 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: That's a good question. I wasn't exactly sure what I 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,520 was going to toddle the book, so I had a 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,719 bunch of different possible titles, and that one sounded to 11 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:43,079 me the most mysterious. But I think it's also fitting 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,960 because esoteric course refers to something hidden or secret, and 13 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:49,640 what I try what I tried to do in the 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,920 book was kind of unveil those hidden secret aspects to film, 15 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:57,479 be it the symbolism that you mentioned, or be it 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,280 the realities behind screen screenwriters and their connections at times 17 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,959 to the CIA or the Pentagon and espionage, and lay 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,000 it all out. I tried to come at film from 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,000 a lot of different levels, and so I felt like 20 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:14,519 that was the most appropriate title, And I think I'd 21 00:01:14,519 --> 00:01:17,319 already kind of been playing around with a podcast with 22 00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:18,560 a similar title. 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,599 Speaker 2: You write that Hollywood has been described as the new Babylon. 24 00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:29,799 What does this analogy signify, that is to say, what 25 00:01:29,879 --> 00:01:33,400 are the parallels between Hollywood and what is understood to 26 00:01:33,439 --> 00:01:36,319 have been Babylon, the ancient pagan empire? 27 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,079 Speaker 1: Right? Well, if we think about the way that the 28 00:01:41,079 --> 00:01:43,719 Book of Genesis, for example, describes the Tower of Babel 29 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:48,280 and then eventually the empire Babylon during the days of 30 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:51,920 many of the Prophets and the Old Testament, we have 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,760 the idea of an oppressive kind of super state, right 32 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:59,719 that was deified or worshiped. One of the aspects that 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,480 was central to that power structure was the mythology behind 34 00:02:03,519 --> 00:02:07,239 those empires. Every empire has its own mythology, and I 35 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,280 would say that that translates into the present day. The 36 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:13,560 British Empire had its mythology, and the American Empire has 37 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:16,000 its mythology as well. And one of the ways in 38 00:02:16,039 --> 00:02:20,360 which that mythology is inculcated into the population or indoctrinated 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,439 into the population is their storytelling. And of course in 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,439 our day that is Hollywood. So many writers, as you said, 41 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:30,840 have in the past, most notably Kenneth Anger with his 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,680 kind of sex scandal book Hollywood Babylon. I thought it 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,199 was an appropriate image, but I wanted to expand beyond 44 00:02:39,319 --> 00:02:42,080 just you know, lurid sex tales and take it into 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,360 the direction also of understanding how we're given our mythology 46 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,199 by the Pentagon, by the CIA and their influence. And 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,840 it's not totally the Cia, obviously Pentagon. It's also you know, 48 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:58,560 people creating stories and using their creativity, but unfortunately a 49 00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:01,680 lot of times the state co OPI that the corporate state, 50 00:03:01,759 --> 00:03:05,759 and gives us messages that they want inserted into films 51 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:08,639 as well. So it's a mix of both, and that's 52 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:12,560 why Babylon is I think an appropriate image. And if 53 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,280 you go to Hollywood you'll see the old sets from 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,960 I think, what is it did Griffith's Griffith's Intolerance film, 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,199 which is from Babylon. It's the architecture of a Babylon 56 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:26,159 from films that. 57 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,879 Speaker 2: Well, then how would you describe the mythology of ancient 58 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,680 Babylon and how it relates to Hollywood. 59 00:03:35,719 --> 00:03:40,479 Speaker 1: Well, one analogy would be what the Babylonians were famous 60 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:44,599 for was, of course astrology, you know, the Chaldeans as well. 61 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:48,400 And the idea here was that we follow the stars, 62 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:51,520 who are in a way representations or the pathways of 63 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,000 the gods. And the way we would make an analogy 64 00:03:55,039 --> 00:03:59,080 to Hollywood is that in the twentieth century, psychological warfare 65 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,000 and social engineers developed the pretty direct parallel to the 66 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:09,439 idea that the Hollywood stars could be the new trend 67 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,199 setters that we would follow. So they're almost like a 68 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,040 replacement for astrology in a way, like literally following the stars. 69 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:20,319 And that was actually the studied and designed by admin 70 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,720 marketing men, a lot of whom came out of the OSS, 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,160 which is of course the predecessor to the CIA, And 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,079 so it's kind of a science. It's a technique. The 73 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,279 Rand Corporation and the Tavstock is they've all studied stuff 74 00:04:33,319 --> 00:04:37,319 like this, so it relates to movies. And in a way, 75 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,120 you know, you can have this idea of Babylon as 76 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,040 the gait of the gods, right, the pantheon of the 77 00:04:44,519 --> 00:04:49,600 celestial deities and whatnot, and Hollywood kind of represents that. 78 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,600 Now it's kind of a gate to the human gods, right, 79 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,360 or the superstars that we view as gods who we 80 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:02,560 think lived this far off heavenly lifestyle in Hollywood Hills 81 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:06,240 or something, and really, you know, this is all concocted lies. 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: You write that quote for Greece and in debased form, Rome, 83 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,600 the stage was sacred, where the dramaturgical interactions of the 84 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,800 gods were actually a form of magical invocation. Although the 85 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,680 idea of the theater as explicitly sacred is foreign to 86 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,439 the modernity, it was not for historic man, nor is 87 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,560 modern man's practice any less religious in regard to the theater. 88 00:05:33,079 --> 00:05:36,240 Could you explain why you begin your book with film 89 00:05:36,319 --> 00:05:37,120 as ritual. 90 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,959 Speaker 1: Yes, I think that the sentence that you read there 91 00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:47,800 is attempting to do that. And so because the ancient 92 00:05:47,879 --> 00:05:54,319 world viewed the plays, you know, Sophocles or even perhaps 93 00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:58,199 virtuals Ania or something like this, they were all viewed 94 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:03,879 as re enactments of the the actions and life of 95 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,439 the gods. And what that did was, at least in 96 00:06:07,519 --> 00:06:10,279 the primitive mind, was you were you were kind of 97 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,879 representing that reality. You were bringing it out of the 98 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,360 Golden Age or the times past or something and bringing 99 00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:22,079 it back into reality kind of invocation. And even in 100 00:06:22,439 --> 00:06:26,519 for example, Plato's dialogues, you can read Ion where Socrates 101 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,040 has a dialogue with some musicians and people from the 102 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,720 theater and they talk about how what they really want 103 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,360 to do is to become possessed by the God or 104 00:06:37,399 --> 00:06:41,399 to become another character. And this is essentially what method 105 00:06:41,439 --> 00:06:45,399 acting is if you study Stanislavsky or method acting. So 106 00:06:45,639 --> 00:06:49,600 there is a direct parallel, you know, whether one believes 107 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,399 that it really is some kind of possession of an 108 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:56,079 entity or just a you know, a very deep skill 109 00:06:56,639 --> 00:07:00,959 that that one takes on another identity or lives out 110 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:05,040 another character. Either way, it's something that goes back to 111 00:07:05,079 --> 00:07:08,800 the ancient world, and we don't know everything about, you know, 112 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,240 how drama was conducted in the ancient world, but it 113 00:07:11,319 --> 00:07:13,480 was very similar to liturgy. And if you think about 114 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,319 a Catholic Mass, or if you think about an Orthodox 115 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,680 a worship service, a liturgy or something like this, the 116 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:23,160 ideas that we're acting out through the worship service events 117 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,439 that sort of transcend time and space. They bring the 118 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,759 celestial of the heavenly or the eternal down to the 119 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,759 here and the now. And although most people don't think 120 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,720 about movies in that way or theater in that way 121 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,839 more properly, that is bound up with the history of 122 00:07:37,879 --> 00:07:41,480 theater and acting, and what. 123 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: Is the method, how is that taught? What does it encompass? 124 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:50,319 Speaker 1: I have one book by if you're talk about Santezelawski's method, 125 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,920 you know this goes by the term method acting. Many 126 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,519 of the famous A listers are method actors. And I'm 127 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,360 by no means any kind of expert in this. I 128 00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:02,519 just know that his one of his texts, he does 129 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:08,399 discuss techniques and patterns for kind of letting your conscious 130 00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:11,720 mind sort of drift away into your subconscious and attempting 131 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:14,399 as best you can to allow the character that you're 132 00:08:14,439 --> 00:08:17,519 trying to portray to kind of come to the fore. 133 00:08:17,839 --> 00:08:20,160 So and then he gives a whole bunch of other 134 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,040 kinds of techniques of how to really perfect his craft. 135 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:26,720 So you know, I'm not I'm not a super expert 136 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,199 on Stanvezlowski. And there's plenty of people I'm sure who 137 00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:33,159 you know, who went to various acting academies. And but 138 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,080 but if when you see somebody, for example, like Christian Bao, 139 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,799 if you remember in The Machinist, when he took on 140 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,559 that role, he got very very deathly thin, like he 141 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:48,759 got sickly thin to play this role Jeremy Irons, you know, 142 00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:51,679 Robert de Niro. These are people who attempt to do 143 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:57,200 method acting, attempt to become the character, and sometimes they 144 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,960 can have a very deleterious effect on the body itself. 145 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm just thinking about a streetcar named Desire and 146 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:11,519 what happened to the lead actress that played that role. 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,000 Was it Vivian Lee? That's right, Yeah, that affected her psychologically, right. 148 00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:21,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that there are several cases 149 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,799 in the history of film where or I guess Theater two, 150 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,000 but I'm more film that there's several cases where people 151 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:30,960 have said similar things. You know, the famous story of 152 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:35,399 Jack Nicholson telling Eith Ledger, beware playing the joker, it'll 153 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:38,639 mess with your psyche. And yeah, there have been cases 154 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,879 like this, and I think it's probably real. There's something 155 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:45,200 to it. It's not just you know, Hollywood legends or whatever. 156 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,919 Speaker 2: In your book Esoteric Hollywood, the first film that you 157 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:53,519 take an in depth look at is Stanley Kubrick's last 158 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,320 film before he died, Eyes wide Shut. Throughout the film, 159 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,919 you write, the viewers eyes are wide shut to the 160 00:10:01,919 --> 00:10:05,879 reality of the power structure. The power base is not 161 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:10,279 the average politician, wealthy doctor or a lawyer in New York, 162 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:14,120 which were the roles played by Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise. 163 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,080 What is the film saying about the real power base 164 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,240 in society? 165 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: I think Kubrick is consistently telling us about the real 166 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:27,399 power structure throughout his films. And you know, one can 167 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:30,720 debate to what degree this might have been involved in 168 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:34,840 his his death or not, and to what degree you know, 169 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,440 throughout his life Kubrick had to cooperate with the power structure, 170 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,960 like with NASA and the Air Force and making two 171 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,159 thousand and one. You know, that's all fine and well, 172 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,240 but I think that you know, when we see something 173 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,320 like eyeswait, shut, I think it's a direct illustration of, 174 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,399 as I said, the real power structure. So it's not politicians, 175 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:59,000 it's not presidents. These are as, doctor Carroll quickly said, frontmen. 176 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,399 They're the people who give the masses the impression that 177 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,759 they have a vote, that they have power, when in 178 00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:10,559 fact the world is actually run by far more wealthy people, 179 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:16,440 oligarchs essentially. So if we consider the power structure, for example, 180 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:23,960 between behind the Catholic Church, it's pedophilia cases, and then 181 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,759 how that has connected to a lot of very powerful 182 00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:30,360 politicians in various countries. This has been well documented by 183 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,000 court cases and journalists for many decades. Now, I think 184 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,200 that we get to see an insight in Kubrick's given 185 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:39,559 us an insight into that very point that the real 186 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,879 power structure is more like billionaires in the sense of, 187 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,399 you know, something like Blofeld from the Bond stories, than 188 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,759 it is you know, Donald Trump or Barack Obama. They're 189 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:52,559 more so kind of front characters. 190 00:11:54,039 --> 00:11:58,879 Speaker 2: Now you've used the phrase a cryptocracy, a cryptocracy of 191 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,759 occult lie leads. So what does cryptocracy refer to? 192 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,639 Speaker 1: This is a term that comes from a fairly well 193 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,919 known book by Walter Bowert, who wrote Operation Mind Control 194 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,840 as one of the early texts on the CIA's m 195 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:21,120 k lture program, right after John Marx wrote his books 196 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,279 CIA and The Search for the Mature in Candidate, two 197 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,799 books that are not conspiracy books for save but actually 198 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,000 do rely on you know, a lot of sourced evidence 199 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:37,919 and whatnot. So Bowert described the the secret shadow government 200 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,559 of the US, the cryptocracy, CIA, Scull and Bones all 201 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,279 those networks as a cryptocracy because of the fact that 202 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,480 they do essentially a cult or secret or hide their methodology. Now, 203 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:54,240 it doesn't mean that everything is secret. Some things they're secret, 204 00:12:54,279 --> 00:12:56,480 somethings aren't. But a lot of times this stuff is 205 00:12:56,519 --> 00:13:00,360 made public so you can find For example, doctor Jose 206 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,840 Delgado is one of the m culture doctors. His books 207 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,639 are public. He has a public book called Physical Control 208 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,399 of the Mind. And so you know, when Walter Bowart 209 00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:11,720 wrote his book, he's saying, look, we can we can 210 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:16,720 look at what the cryptocracy has published, and even from 211 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:20,519 what's public, we can get clear enough idea into the 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,600 methodology of how the social engineers, how the think tanks, 213 00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:28,159 how the d nng o's, how the the the academics, 214 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:31,360 how the technocrats, how they all kind have worked together 215 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,000 to foster the same overall goals, even though they might 216 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,080 at times have differences. 217 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: I'm speaking with author and radio and television host Jay 218 00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:47,200 Dyer today's show foreshadowing ritual and symbology in film. I'm 219 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:54,679 Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and butter. Well, now I'm 220 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,919 hoping that people have seen Stanley Kubrick's Eyes Wide Show, 221 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,279 but otherwise they wouldn't know what we were talking about. 222 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,720 Could you sort of simplify the narrative of that film. 223 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, Basically, it's the story up two of a couple 224 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:20,600 who's having marital sexual problems and their upper class, elite 225 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:25,559 sort of New York socialite level. He's a doctor, very 226 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:28,720 successful doctor, and she is an artist or an our teacher, 227 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:34,279 if I recall. And my thesis on the film is 228 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,000 that they view themselves as sort of the top of 229 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:39,120 the totem pole. You know, where else could you go? 230 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,000 We've got it all, we're at We're the elite in 231 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,840 a way. But they realize that they're encountering I guess, 232 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:51,039 somewhat typical marriage type issues, and the Tomkers character is 233 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,840 sort of tempted to find sexual gratification elsewhere, and this 234 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,919 sort of leads to a chain of events, a kind 235 00:14:59,919 --> 00:15:03,960 of of snowballing effect of him kind of wandering around 236 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,440 outside of marriage on the town and encountering a series 237 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,919 of so called coincidences that lead him to this big 238 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:17,440 estate where there is a masked ball, sort of a 239 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,000 Renaissance style orgy going on at this elite estate. And 240 00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:25,879 it does, I think, have very conscious satanic and Crollian 241 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,120 elements to the mask ball. It's very much a ritual. 242 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,360 I don't think there's any question about that, and that 243 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,120 I think suggests that many of the elite are into 244 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:42,879 these kinds of occult practices, especially something like the followers 245 00:15:42,879 --> 00:15:49,639 of Croley. So what happens is that he goes through 246 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:56,600 the ritual, but he doesn't fully embrace the ritual. He's hesitant, 247 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,639 and he is essentially kicked out and found out to 248 00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:02,279 be and interloper. Right. He's not welcome there. He didn't 249 00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:05,000 have the secret password, the Tom Cruise character that is, 250 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:09,159 and so he heads back home and we are kind 251 00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:13,720 of left with the unclear impression that maybe even his 252 00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:16,840 wife was there, because she seems to know what he 253 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:20,120 was up to. She has a dream about this, and 254 00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:23,200 of course many people who interpret the film they debate 255 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,159 whether or not either she had some sort of preternatural 256 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,080 suspicion of him being there or whether she actually was there. 257 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,279 It really doesn't matter because the point I think that 258 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:34,759 the Couper is trying to convey to us, in my view, 259 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,519 is that you know, the real world really does operate 260 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:42,120 like this. This is the real power structure of extremely 261 00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:47,279 wealthy people who are far above politicians, and the rest 262 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,639 of the film's narrative, without giving too much away, if 263 00:16:49,679 --> 00:16:53,399 you haven't seen it is that the cult essentially has 264 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,519 at its it has basically all the powers and functions 265 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,200 of an intelligence agency. They're able to have Tom Cruise's 266 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:05,640 character survey oled followed, they know everything about him, they 267 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,440 have moles everywhere, and they're able to even craft news 268 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,680 stories to cover up murders that the Cult is able 269 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,680 to engage in. And this is really what some writers 270 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,119 have called the CIA, the Cult of Intelligence right them, 271 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,039 that's who could pull all this stuff off. And as 272 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,960 many histories of espionage have noted, the CIA is more 273 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,400 like a private, private intelligence army for the Rockfellers. You know, 274 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,960 it is the Rockfellers and British intelligence who established the CIA. 275 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:37,440 So I think Cooper is roughly hinting at a lot 276 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,119 of these different things. It's a kind of an overall 277 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,400 portrayal of the power structure. And that's why he called 278 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,079 it eyes White shut, because most people just think that 279 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,440 the the world is ruled by politicians and bureaucrats, and 280 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:58,880 it's not. It's ruled by you know, extremely wealthy finance 281 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,519 capitalists and corporates. 282 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: You're right that both Polanski's The Ninth Gate and Kubrick's 283 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,519 Eyes Wide Shut were filmed in Rothschild mansions. I didn't 284 00:18:10,519 --> 00:18:14,599 know that, I'm sure. 285 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think off the top of my head. 286 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,960 I don't remember the name of the estate, but I 287 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,400 think I mentioned it either in the book or or 288 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,640 somewhere else. But yes, I think the Polanski one. It's 289 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,839 not presently owned by Rothchild's, but it wasn't one time. 290 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,880 And of course the Rothchilds owned multiple estates in Europe 291 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,119 throughout you know, the last several centuries. So so it's 292 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,119 not hard. It's not hard to believe, given the fact 293 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,920 that I mean that they had, like, you know, tons 294 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,000 of palaces. So but yes, it's also if I recall 295 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:56,079 the mansion that you see in Batman The Dark Knight, 296 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,799 the you know, Christopher Nolan, Kristen Bale Batman, that's also 297 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,799 the Rothchild estate there, and it has a very interesting history. 298 00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:11,720 It's it's a in a state that the Beatles did 299 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:15,279 a lot of transcetal meditation with Maharishi mash Yogi with 300 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,799 so it's a very colorful history to that estate. And 301 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:22,599 I think it's since been sold off. It's not owned 302 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:25,000 by I think it's like an ucum, it's owned by 303 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,920 the state or something. It's not probably I don't think. 304 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,279 Speaker 2: You mentioned in your book, and I just mentioned Polanski's 305 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:37,000 The Ninth Gate. Now, not only have I not seen 306 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,319 that movie, I wasn't even aware of it, but the 307 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,279 photos in your book, it looks like it's similar to 308 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,960 Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut? Is that. 309 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: I think so? I think they if I recalled they 310 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,799 both came out in nineteen ninety nine. They both have 311 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,759 very similar themes. Kubrick's film is not really interested in 312 00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,400 the supernatural, and then the Plansky takes it in more 313 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,079 of a consciously supernatural and Luciferian route. So this is 314 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,880 another indicator. I would say that, you know, Polanski was 315 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,599 telling us things about the underground networks in the US 316 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,519 back when he did Rosemary's Baby, and I don't think 317 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:20,359 that he ceased telling us kind of what was going 318 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,599 on up into nineteen ninety nine with The Ninth Kate, 319 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:27,480 and so in ways, it's kind of a version of 320 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:31,960 Dante's Inferno, where the lead character Philip I think is 321 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,920 Philip Corso or something like that. The Johnny Depp character 322 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,640 is a book dealer who's led down into the underworld 323 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,960 and he meets various characters who are seeking Satanic or 324 00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:49,519 Luciferian power, and without giving too much away, he discovers 325 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:52,519 it in a way that he neither heat nor anyone 326 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:53,519 else expects. 327 00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned Polanski's Rosemary's Baby. That was a 328 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:05,279 powerful thing. I've seen that several times. That was really creepy. 329 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: It is pretty creepy. I had, In fact, we did 330 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,440 an episode of Hollywood Dakota, my TV show on it, 331 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,400 and I think they cut that one, which kind of 332 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,799 sucks because I think it would have been a really 333 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,359 really cool episode, but it never it never made it 334 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,200 to airing, so and I think they cut it because 335 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,799 they decided it was too dark for Guya's streaming network, So, 336 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,519 you know whatever. But it is a creepy film. I 337 00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:35,200 think in ways we've got back and watch it now, 338 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:36,960 it's kind of silly, it's kind of cheesy, but there 339 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,920 still is a creepy element to it, especially when you know, 340 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,160 you look at the Dakota Building where it's filmed, and 341 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,279 the weird history of the Dakota Building with the assassination 342 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,440 of John Lennon and other weird films that have been 343 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,960 filmed there. If you watch Vanilla Sky, I don't think 344 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:02,160 it's accidental that they put Tom Cruise is kind of 345 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:07,920 fancy condo in the Dakota building, which isn't a weird element. 346 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:10,720 I haven't really gotten to Vanoskay yet, but it definitely 347 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,400 deserves someone else's. And then of course you have the 348 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,400 the overtly you know, satanic element of trying to bring 349 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,039 in the Satanic aon with the impregnation of the mia 350 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:26,799 Faro character. And but I think we can't forget the 351 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:28,519 other element that a lot of people forget, which is 352 00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:32,599 that her husband, who's in on it, his whole reasoning 353 00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:36,440 for all of this is because he wants to make 354 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,359 it in Hollywood. So he wants to be a famous 355 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,599 actor in Hollywood. And part of his reason for going 356 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,880 along with this is that the Satanists in Hollywood can 357 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,720 hook him up if he goes along with, you know, 358 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:53,319 with the plan, with their plan for Rosemary. 359 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: You know, what I thought was very interesting and original 360 00:22:57,079 --> 00:23:02,279 about Rosemary's Baby was the portry of the Satanists. They 361 00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:07,160 were almost comical and sort of pedestrian, right, which was 362 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,279 a real kind of an interesting twist some people. Yeah, 363 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:14,640 a couple that could actually blend in with the general population, 364 00:23:14,759 --> 00:23:16,319 and you would never suspect a thing. 365 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: That is an interesting point. Yeah, most of the time 366 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,240 you kind of had this cartoonish, silly portrayal. And if 367 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,119 I recall, I think Anton Levy was the consultant and 368 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,279 is who's wearing the beast costume in the in the 369 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:38,119 scenes with Rosemary so in the bed. So yeah, I 370 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,559 think that probably in the mind of Leavey, who was 371 00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:44,559 also a very cartoonish character, he would wear you know, 372 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,079 satanic costumes and whatnot, look like something from a B movie. 373 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,359 But maybe at the same time he was also you know, 374 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,720 consulting that look. Satanism can also take on a very subtle, 375 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,240 mundane appearance as well. 376 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: That's very interesting. I didn't know that Levey was associated 377 00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:08,480 with that film. I had no idea about that. You know, 378 00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:12,519 while we're on the subject of Roman Polanski, in my view, 379 00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:16,839 he's such an excellent, excellent director and one of the 380 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,240 greatest movies ever made in my opinion, is Chinatown. Chinatown, 381 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,599 and he directed that. 382 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. We actually, surprisingly the Hollywood Decoded episode that did 383 00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:32,799 make it through from Polanski was the Chinatown episode. So 384 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,880 I'm very proud of myself and Jay Widner in terms 385 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,680 of the episode that we filmed about Chinatown, which if 386 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,000 you're not aware, I have a TV show with filmmaker 387 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:47,559 Jay Widner on The Guy at TV Network, which you 388 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:50,680 can you can watch on Amazon Prime or through Guy 389 00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:54,400 or whatever. But we did I think twenty something episode 390 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:58,160 nineteen twenty episodes of film analysis, very similar to what's 391 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,720 in the book, and one of the episodes plans Ky's Chinatown, 392 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,319 and I think, once again, you know, whatever you think 393 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,640 of Polansky, we do have an insight into the power 394 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,160 structure because there it's the Los Angeles power structure William 395 00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:17,880 Holland and kind of a commentary on how Los Angeles 396 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,000 in the I think it's in the twenties, if I recall, 397 00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:28,559 came to be through corporate subterfuge, through the privatization of water, 398 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,240 and it was just a very crazy, wild story which 399 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:34,759 is loosely based in reality. That's not exactly true, but 400 00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:37,559 there are some weird parallels as well, with the fact 401 00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:41,640 that William Holland is played by John Houston or the 402 00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:46,279 guy who stands in for William moholland who and John 403 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:52,519 Houston the actor director was, according to Steve Hodell, the 404 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,440 son of George Hodell, the famed suspect in the Black 405 00:25:56,519 --> 00:26:00,000 Dolly ritual killings. It's actually John Houston was in the surple, 406 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,160 very close friends with with George Odell and supposedly participated 407 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:11,759 in these sort of ritual orgies and satanic celebrations that 408 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:16,000 George George Odell was involved in. So you know, again, 409 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,880 what is Polanski telling us here? 410 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 2: So who was making these claims about John Houston. 411 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,559 Speaker 1: Well, it's in two different books. If you read the 412 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,640 Dave McGowan's book Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon, there's an 413 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:35,440 extensive discussion about the likely thesis that George Hodell was 414 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,440 the Black Doll or one of the Black Dollia murders 415 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,000 as long, along with Man Ray. And I don't think 416 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,200 that the accusation is that John Houston was a murderer 417 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,359 per se, but that he was a participant in their parties, 418 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,319 and that that also is corroborated in Steve Hodell's book 419 00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:58,160 Black Dahlia Avenger, which is the central argument that he's 420 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,000 you know, he's I think a police detective for something, 421 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:02,599 but he's saying that it was my dad, my dad 422 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,000 was the Black Dahia killer or him and other people 423 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:08,400 like surrealist artist Man Ray. 424 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: But anyway, certain people think that this is true and 425 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,839 are making these claims. 426 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: Okay, right now, this is not my accusation. These are 427 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:19,480 again this is in Day McGowan's book, and it's in 428 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:21,680 Steve Hodell's book Black Dolia Vendor. 429 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,559 Speaker 2: I'm speaking with author and radio and television host Jay 430 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,920 Dyer Today's show foreshadowing ritual and symbology in film. I'm 431 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:40,279 Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter. Getting back to 432 00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:45,400 Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut. What is the symbolism of the 433 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:49,359 pillars in the film? For example, you have a picture 434 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,480 in your book Esoteric Hollywood that in the beginning Nicole 435 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:57,759 Kidman is standing between pillars. 436 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Well, admittedly this is a little bit of kind of 437 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,240 a loose interpretation on my part, but we do know 438 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,079 from Kubrick's films and his commentaries that he was very 439 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:13,279 attentive to detail and very very meticulous about what images 440 00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:16,279 and symbols appeared in the films. So there's no question 441 00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:19,839 about that. And he was, you know, again, a freak 442 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480 for detail and continuity. So I don't think the scenes 443 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,119 are shot accidentally or just because they look good. I 444 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,880 think they do have a significance and I think that 445 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,599 the opening sequence with the two pillars could suggest, you know, 446 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,480 the ideas of masonry, the idea of the lodge with 447 00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:40,559 the two pillars Jacin and Boaz, which derives ultimately from 448 00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:45,119 Solomon's Temple in the Old Testament. That's how the the 449 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:50,640 Freemasonic lodges adopted the two pillars in their system. And 450 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,200 it's really kind of a it has a multiple layer 451 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,039 aspect to it, towards interpreted to be different things. Sometimes 452 00:28:58,039 --> 00:29:01,000 it's day and night. Sometimes it's you know, ealectical tensions 453 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,839 between good and evil. Sometimes it's just male versus female. Again, 454 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,640 it's just really suggesting duality. Two sides of the of 455 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,839 the Cabbalah, for example, the two pillars, the two mercy 456 00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:18,440 and severity sides of the cobblistic tree. You know, Albert 457 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880 Pike says that this is all what masonry is based on. 458 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,359 So I think that perhaps Kubrick is suggesting that. I mean, 459 00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:28,000 there's a lot of evidence that, for example, two thousand 460 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,039 and one is based on cobblistic ideas and imagery. So 461 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,039 I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility 462 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:39,640 that Kubrick is including that in Eyesweight Shut as well. 463 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:44,119 So the idea of you know, Nicole Kidman sort of 464 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,480 being half naked there. And then the idea here is 465 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:52,400 that you're looking into the secrets of how the occult 466 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,000 elite or the social engineers, how they rule us is 467 00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:59,880 in many ways through controlling our sexual desires through the libido. 468 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,079 That's a Fortian theme at least, and there's no doubt 469 00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:08,720 that there's Forty in elements throughout kubrick films, absolutely, and 470 00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:10,920 so I think perhaps what he might be saying is 471 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,680 that you know, you in a way, you're peering into 472 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,319 what you think is the sex lives of other people. 473 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,119 There's kind of a meta fourth wall level analysis that's 474 00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:23,440 broken here. And with the fact that at the time 475 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,759 Tom Cruise and Nicole Kimmen actually were married, and you 476 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:29,079 know that the paparazzi were always talking about their sex 477 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,920 lives and crazy stuff like that. So so there's that 478 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:34,359 element too. There's a lot of different layers going on here, 479 00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,559 but you know the fact that we're looking through the 480 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:41,000 two pillars and to see the bare naked woman, the 481 00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:43,920 A list star or something. I think this suggests that 482 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,000 you know, Kubrick is saying you are a sort of 483 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,519 a porn obsessed society. You're you're controlled by these by 484 00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:54,480 this libido desire and you don't even realize it. 485 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,279 Speaker 2: And also the setting, the time of year, this ease 486 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,279 and where eyes wide shut takes place is Christmas. What 487 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,759 is the significance of that? 488 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: Do you think that's a good question. I'm still not 489 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,160 positive that I have that figured out, but you know, 490 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,240 it could be Kubrick is playing on the idea of 491 00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:20,319 the commercialization of Christmas, that this is another aspect to 492 00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:24,680 to how we are controlled through consumerism, this idea that 493 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,000 the whole holiday is supposed to be about giving of 494 00:31:28,039 --> 00:31:31,160 gifts and and and you know, self sacrifice and that 495 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,640 kind of stuff giving, and it's all been inverted to 496 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,000 be about consuming, about you know, think about the the 497 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,079 the lines of people that that stand outside of you know, 498 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,279 to get the latest plastic thing from China or whatever. 499 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,119 You know, it's a never ending kind of consumer black hole. 500 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:54,759 That's what Christmas represents. And it also could be that 501 00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:57,359 he's saying that, you know that from the perspective of 502 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,799 the social engineers, Uh, it's it's an it's an attempt 503 00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:03,160 to invert the message of Christmas because a lot of 504 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:07,480 Satanic imageries of course based on inversion. You invert the 505 00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:09,440 thing to give it its dark power. 506 00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:15,799 Speaker 2: Well, yes, sort of a jarring to watch that movie 507 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:19,359 with all the Christmas lights and the Christmas parties and 508 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,920 the decorations, and yet at the same time the film's 509 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,160 message is so dark. 510 00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: It is very dark. Is it perhaps talking about you know, 511 00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:33,480 pre Christian times of you know, solstice and that kind 512 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:34,720 of stuff. You know, it could be. 513 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: Right now in ice wide shut. There are many mirrors. 514 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:42,279 You point this out in your book, Our mirrors symbolic 515 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:44,480 and if so, what are they symbolic of? 516 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: They are? Yeah, I mean this is kind of a 517 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,319 prevalent symbol in literature, There's no doubt about that. And 518 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,680 most of the time it refers to the self or 519 00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:02,799 the soul or the psyche and self reflection, self actualization, 520 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,160 perhaps depending upon what context it's used, but I would 521 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,200 say that in the context of ours watch shot, one 522 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,440 of the layers of the film is about the individual's 523 00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:22,480 realization of what he really is, what he really represents. So, 524 00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:26,200 for example, the beginning, seeing that when they're having an 525 00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:32,519 argument about sexuality within marriage and attraction, Nicole Kimmen actually 526 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:36,599 catches Tom Cruise in a lie. She says, were you 527 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:39,079 tempted or attracted by the two girls that hit on 528 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:40,440 you at the party? And he's like, oh no, I 529 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,319 would never And she's like, you've never been attracted to 530 00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:47,839 another woman? And Tom Cruise insists that he hasn't, and 531 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,440 he's lying to himself, and she knows that he's lying, 532 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,599 and he knows that he's lying. So there's another element 533 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,799 a lot of people miss throughout the film when you 534 00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:00,880 get focused on the esoteric stuff, which is about reflection 535 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,160 and about realizing how we all wear masks. That's another 536 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,400 theme throughout the film that's kind of I would say, 537 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,800 grounded in the existentialism of Jean Paul Sartre, which you 538 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,880 know Sartre said that we're all kind of wearing masks 539 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,159 and we're we're not admitting that our true authentic selves. Right. 540 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,880 That's a part of this film too that people overlook. 541 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you talk about that. Actually, you have some of 542 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:27,760 photographs from Eyes Wideeshet in your book where there are 543 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,840 masks on the walls of the different interior scenes in 544 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,440 the movie. 545 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Whoreror Domino, when Tom Kers visits her apartment 546 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,400 when he's you know, when he comes really close to cheating. 547 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,519 He doesn't do it, but becomes close with the prostitute, 548 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:46,159 and we see the masks everywhere, and so you know, 549 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,559 it's very This prostitute has a line of books dealing 550 00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,719 with the sociology and psychology, which is, i would say, 551 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,199 a little bit out of place for the average prostitute. 552 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,400 And in my view, that suggests that she was actually 553 00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:05,280 part of the ritual. So it would appear that throughout 554 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,840 the story, and this is my thesis on the film, 555 00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:10,639 it would appear that the characters that Tom Cruise keeps 556 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,320 sort of interacting with and by chance meeting, it's not 557 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,599 by chance. He's actually being led to the ritual. 558 00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 2: Is human sacrifice the theme in Eyes Wide Shut. 559 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: It is because the beauty queen, whom Tom Cruise's character 560 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,880 had earlier sort of checked on and helped through an overdose. 561 00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:35,519 At the beginning of the film, she has overdose in 562 00:35:35,679 --> 00:35:39,920 the upstairs apartment, cheating with Ziegler at the party. She 563 00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:44,159 later sees him and realizes that he's come to the ritual. 564 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,000 My theory is that he was brought to the ritual 565 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,760 on purpose. The whole thing was kind of organized. But 566 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,760 she has said the whole time that she wants out 567 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,800 of it. She's a drug addict because she doesn't want 568 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,360 to be in this cult. But there's no out of 569 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:03,119 this cult. And so whatever her sort of strange laws 570 00:36:03,199 --> 00:36:06,599 or rules this cult has, she has to offer herself 571 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:11,519 as his redemption. And she does because you know, she 572 00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:15,079 wants she wants out in the most extreme sense, like 573 00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:17,239 she's willing to die. She's already been, you know, trying 574 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,400 to overdose, and so she says, well, I'll just give 575 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,159 it up and you know, he can have my place 576 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,719 or whatever. So that's my theory on is that this 577 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,760 is a class of elite. There's a strict class system. 578 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,440 This is part of it as well. You know, Kubrick 579 00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:35,400 is a pretty constant critic of the class system, going 580 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:41,000 all the way back to Spartacus. Kubrick is saying that 581 00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:44,800 you're not going to reach a certain level no matter 582 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,000 who you are, right, I mean, in other words, you 583 00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:50,800 can if you're Tom Cruise in your upper middle class, 584 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,119 you know, lower bourgeois whatever, You're not ever going to 585 00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:57,320 be in this class of people. And that's what Tom 586 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,559 Cruise can't fathom. He's being inducted into the cult. That's 587 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:05,239 kind of one of the debatable topics the end of 588 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:05,559 the film. 589 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,559 Speaker 2: Why do you think Stanley Kubrick's final movie, Eyes Wide Shut, 590 00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:11,800 is important. 591 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: Because it shows us what really goes on. As I 592 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:19,679 said earlier, we have been exposed to this kind of 593 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,920 ritual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church, this kind of 594 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,639 pederasti in other situations like Penn State, Jimmy Savile and 595 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,639 if you think back to the Dutreux affair in Belgium 596 00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:34,639 and the elite of Belgium that we're involved in. That 597 00:37:35,199 --> 00:37:37,840 I think Kubrick's giving us a window into what really 598 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,440 goes on. That's why it matters. 599 00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 2: Can you discuss some of the movies that included foreshadowing 600 00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:45,000 of nine to eleven? 601 00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a bunch of those. One of the 602 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:55,000 clearest ones is The Matrix. You have Neo's information file 603 00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:58,360 that Agent Smith has on him. This of course takes 604 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:03,559 place in the future. Neo's date of birth is nine 605 00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:06,039 to eleven, two thousand and one, and that's I think 606 00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,880 a curious thing just randomly stick in there, especially given 607 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,719 the fact that the second Matrix film includes. Now the 608 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,159 Matrix came out in nineteen ninety eight or nine, but 609 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,159 the second Matrix film includes a giant terror attack on 610 00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:26,039 a building that is you know, controlled demolition. So there's 611 00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:30,679 some weird stuff in there. Other films are a little 612 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,519 clearer than this, I would say, like the pilot of 613 00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,840 the Lone Gunman series, which is the XOLE spin off. 614 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,760 The pilot air I think six months or so before 615 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,960 the events of nine to eleven, and you have hijacked radio, 616 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:47,960 hijacked airlines that are attempting to be flown into the 617 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,320 World Trade towers by a rogue shadow group within the 618 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,679 US government. Again, I think that's very clearly hinting at something. 619 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,679 We also have a lot of films that were preparing 620 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,800 us for the idea of the large scale Arab terror attack. 621 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,880 The first of these that's a blockbuster, is true lies 622 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,599 the James. 623 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,679 Speaker 2: Cameron was that an Arnold Schwarzenegger mood. I saw that 624 00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:17,920 that was upsetting. 625 00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:26,519 Speaker 1: It's the first blockbuster Arab terror villain attack film. Now, 626 00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:30,039 I'm not saying that that means that that James Cameron, 627 00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:32,159 or I think it was James Cameron, but I'm not 628 00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:35,599 saying that that means that he was secretly involved in it. 629 00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:37,960 That doesn't have to It doesn't have to be to 630 00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:40,559 be like that. I mean, what can happen is you'll 631 00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:44,239 get consultant, you know, like if you want to use 632 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,280 aircraft carriers or military equipment. There's a great book on 633 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:55,000 this about the Pentagon and the CI in Hollywood, David 634 00:39:55,079 --> 00:40:00,199 rob His book on this describes how the usage the 635 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,800 military equipment requires that you kind of go along with 636 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,880 certain narratives that the Pentagon might want, like we want 637 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,760 you to portray the military good in your film, and 638 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,920 then you can use our tanks and helicopters or whatever 639 00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:14,000 in the back round. Or it might be something like, 640 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,800 you know, if you want to use our equipment, we'd 641 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,880 like to go ahead and start maybe easing up the 642 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,800 American population to the idea of the Arab terror attack. 643 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,519 We think that the Arab terrorists are coming to get us. 644 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,840 So this would begin to be put into films another 645 00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:34,320 film that not just me, but actually a professor Elliott Gaines, 646 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,719 who's a professor at something like University of Iowa. Maybe anyway, 647 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,199 he wrote an essay a long time ago that's since 648 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,039 been i think published into a book about symbology and 649 00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:49,440 film and pop culture. And he also noticed a long 650 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,920 time ago that the imagery and symbolism of Independence Day, 651 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,519 which came out prior to nine to eleven, is chalk 652 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:01,920 full of imagery, kind of preparing the public for large 653 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:08,159 scale terror events and specifically the demolition of big scale 654 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:12,559 buildings in New York by this quote alien threat. And 655 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,920 again if you think, well, yeah, but it's aliens, it's 656 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,960 not Arab terrorists, well, actually, if you go back to 657 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,840 the Cold War, you can study how the military was 658 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:30,559 using the alien phenomenon in science fiction as part of 659 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:35,360 psychological warfare. Because in the mind of the average viewer 660 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,519 when they're watching, for example, the Twilight Zone and you're 661 00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:44,280 seeing all these alien threats against the US military. The 662 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,360 reason that the Twilight Zone quite literally had Department of 663 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,719 Defense consultation was that it was seen to be part 664 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,679 of the Cold War. Because the human mind associates any 665 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,960 external threat as an external threat, doesn't matter whether it's 666 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,559 in fiction, it's aliens, and then the news tells you 667 00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:03,840 it's you know, the commis or the the the are 668 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,679 of terrorists. That's the way psychological warfare works. They know 669 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,159 that the subconscious will associate the two, so you can 670 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:16,800 actually use fictional aliens as a staged fake threat to 671 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:17,920 control the population. 672 00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm speaking with author and radio and television host Jay Dyer. 673 00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:30,119 Today's show foreshadowing ritual and symbology in film. I'm Bonnie Faulkner. 674 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:38,119 This is Guns and Butter. Now we're talking about examples 675 00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:43,199 of predictive programming in movies. There's also television. Now, you 676 00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,880 mentioned The Lone Gunman. I saw that that was just 677 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,599 an incredible example, right down to who the perpetrators were. 678 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,119 Speaker 1: I would I don't doubt that there's absolutely one or 679 00:42:56,159 --> 00:43:00,639 percent CIA connection between between these groups, and that's how 680 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,079 the messages put into fiction. In fact, Dean Hagland from 681 00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:09,280 The X Files and The Lone Gunman has given interviews 682 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,960 where he said that when you know, when we were 683 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,039 on the set of X Men, we would have CIA 684 00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:17,039 consultants telling us what they would like to see in 685 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,639 the episodes, you know, on set. So you think what 686 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,880 that's crazy, Now, just go look up Chase Brandon, Look 687 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,280 up Milt Bearden. They are famous CIA liaisons and consultants 688 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:34,639 for calltless films, everything from The Meet the Fowkers, if 689 00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:38,840 you've seen the Ben Stiller comedy, either Chase Brandon or 690 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,079 Milton Beard and consultant on that The Recruit with al 691 00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:47,800 Pacino and right Felipe that was a CIA made film, 692 00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:52,239 Kathleen Kennedy and her Zero Dark thirty and these are 693 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,519 all quite literally CIA movies. 694 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 2: Right. I was about to ask you, what are some 695 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,679 of the movies and TV shows influenced by the military 696 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,079 and the CIA. 697 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: There are thousands of them. 698 00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:08,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, and why do you think they have such a 699 00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:11,000 strong and broad influence on Hollywood? 700 00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: Well, because Eberberne said, Hollywood is the most powerful engine 701 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,960 in propaganda the world has ever known. So if you 702 00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:24,519 are a military, Pentagon, CIA person, you want to influence culture, 703 00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:28,760 You want to influence minds, You want to do the 704 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,920 basic kind of stuff that Sun Zoo talked about, making 705 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,079 sure that people do what you want them to do. 706 00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:40,639 So what better way than conditioning them through fiction. How 707 00:44:40,639 --> 00:44:43,679 many people are going to see James Bond as opposed 708 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,440 to reading some World War two history book? 709 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 2: Exactly? Can you describe some of the ways the cartoon 710 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,920 show Gi Joe revealed certain military technologies we have today. 711 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a very striking and kind of one 712 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,880 of one of the most amazing aspects of the whole thing. 713 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,320 Blued or Not was because I grew up with with 714 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,199 G I Joe in the eighties. I was a kid 715 00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:10,880 of the eighties, and and every kid who grew up 716 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,719 in the eighties, you know, play with g I Joe. 717 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,119 And so one of the first tier level one conspiracy 718 00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:22,559 things that you learned about this is that that's military conditioning, right, 719 00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:25,199 and that that's not too far fetched when you start 720 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,199 to think about, well, yeah, I guess that does make 721 00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:30,079 sense why g I Joe was introduced to, you know, 722 00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:32,559 give the idea of join Uncle Sam in the fight 723 00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:35,360 against all the bad guys, and that makes sense. But 724 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,079 why is that crazy? Well, it gets a lot deeper 725 00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:41,760 than that, because in the narrative of G I Joe 726 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,719 in the cartoon series in the eighties, I mean you 727 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:50,039 actually have episodes that are dealing, for example, explicitly with 728 00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:53,199 the Federal Reserve of all things, and how the fiat 729 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,800 money isn't real. And there's actually an episode where Cobra 730 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:04,159 institutes Cobra currency and he goes into this this rant 731 00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:06,800 about how the Federal Reserve is a fiat money, it's 732 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,719 not real, and Cobra currency will be backed by gold 733 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,400 because gold is you know, the true true standard for 734 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,400 how currency should be back I remember when the first 735 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,440 time I saw that years ago, I was like, well, 736 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,400 that's kind of weird. Why would that be in G 737 00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:22,840 I Joe? And then I started rewatching the G I. 738 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,880 Joe cartoon episodes and I started noticing consistently, Oh, well, 739 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,320 here's one episode that's about sky Neet and the creation 740 00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:34,039 of like global surveillance you know. Okay, well that's kind 741 00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:36,000 of a science fiction thing, and I guess that's too weird. Well, 742 00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:39,880 then another episode we start seeing a geoengineering weather modification. 743 00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:43,480 I'm thinking, well, that's a little bit stranger. Why would 744 00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:44,880 that be a G I Joe? And then the next 745 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,320 episode you're watching it, it's about quite literally mkulture. They're 746 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,079 referencing the military study in My Control Now. Of course, 747 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,760 most of the time in the G I. Joe cartoons 748 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,719 it's Cobra. It's the bad guys that are doing it, 749 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,639 but in some cases there's even episodes where the good 750 00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:05,880 guys and the bad guys have to link up. For example, 751 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,599 Cobra is a terrorist organization in the narrative of the 752 00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:12,360 G I. Joe, but there are some episodes where G I. 753 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,559 Joe has to link up with Cobra to fight a 754 00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:17,800 common enemy, and I'm thinking, well, that's that's very bizarre, 755 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,119 because did the military have to supposedly link up with 756 00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:25,079 the jiahaties right to fight the Soviets? That was the 757 00:47:25,079 --> 00:47:31,280 American narrative even into the eighties. In fact, the Living 758 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,199 is it's either I think it's Living Daylights, the episode 759 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,000 the Bond film in the eighties eighty seven, I think 760 00:47:39,039 --> 00:47:42,840 with Timothy Dalton. In that film, Timothy Dalton teams up 761 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,280 with a quite literally a bin laden character and then 762 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,800 mujah Haden to fight the Soviets. So even into the eighties, 763 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,880 you know where they were still promoting the narrative of 764 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:55,119 the Jihad and the Musja Hadeen as the freedom fighters 765 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:59,239 to good guys, and even in Gi Joe at times 766 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,719 the terrorists are our allies. So it gets crazier and great, 767 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,000 you can keep going and keep going with nanotechnology and 768 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:13,719 all this this really far out future tech was placed 769 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,880 into the eighties g I Jo series. 770 00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 2: How has the subject of mind control been portrayed in movies? 771 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: Well, that's a very big question y. When when Hollywood 772 00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:30,119 began to consciously work with, you know, the narrative of 773 00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:32,800 something like mentoring candidate if if you've seen The man 774 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,199 tred Candidate, you kind of get the presentation that the 775 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,960 Soviets are up to this and the commedis are going 776 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,119 to brainwash all of our POW's and all that. And actually, 777 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,000 Walter Bower and his great book Operation My Control, he 778 00:48:47,639 --> 00:48:50,760 makes a very powerful argument that that that was itself 779 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,119 kind of a sile, that that what the American military 780 00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:59,880 was doing was trying to have a justification for their 781 00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:06,800 own large scale psychological testing and my control experiments known 782 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,280 generally as MK Ultra, under the guise of saying, well, 783 00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:13,719 the comedies are going to do this to us, right, Well. 784 00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:17,400 Speaker 2: You brought up you brought up The Manchurian Candidate, the 785 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,679 original one, which is one of my favorite movies. That's 786 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,599 an incredibly good movie. Yeah, it does good movie, Oh, 787 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:30,599 unbelievable starring Angela Lansbury. And that came out right before 788 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,280 the Kennedy assassination, didn't it exactly prefigured that whole thing? 789 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,079 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely yeah. I think we did a long time ago, 790 00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:41,360 we did an article or a video, I can't remember, 791 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,519 it's been several years where we discussed just that very thing, 792 00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:49,199 that the similarities between what you're talking about and Jeff 793 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,559 k There's also if you think of the Gene Hackman 794 00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:57,920 film The Conversation, which is a very Yeah, that's a 795 00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:01,480 very well done surveillance film where he kind of goes crazy. 796 00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:07,559 That actually came out right before the Watergate stuff, and 797 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,400 other people have noticed the strange parallels to the Watergate 798 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:18,599 surveillance and Conversation. So the predictive programming aspect of things 799 00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:23,159 appearing in fiction before they appear in so called mainstream reality, 800 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,599 it goes back a long way, you know, it doesn't. 801 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,400 It's not something that started in the nineties or two thousands. 802 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,920 I'm all the time funny examples like this, and and yes, 803 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:39,199 it's absolutely similar. When it comes to assassination attempts. There's 804 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,519 another great example of this that kind of hearkens to 805 00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:47,440 JFK and maybe the other assassinations or attempted assassinations in 806 00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:55,840 the Warren Batty movie, The Warren Batty movie, The Parallax View, 807 00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,199 The Parallax View. Yeah, thank you. 808 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,599 Speaker 2: Yes, I always get mixed up about that movie, and 809 00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:05,079 I've seen it twice, but I can never remember the 810 00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:06,199 narrative of the thing. 811 00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: Well, he is a reporter who goes into investigating this company, 812 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:17,760 this this shadow private entity that appears to be recruiting psychopaths, 813 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,519 people with the you know, murderous and sort of psychopathic tendencies, 814 00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:24,599 and he's very curious as to what is the purpose 815 00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:28,039 of all this, and so he ends up applying to 816 00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:31,760 to go through this company's program. It turns out it's 817 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,559 a giant mind control program and they're they're wiping people's 818 00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:40,000 brains and they are looking for the perfect Patsy, And 819 00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:42,480 of course turns out Warren Baty fits the profile of 820 00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:44,840 the perfect Patsy. So spoiler alert, I'd kind of give 821 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:49,480 it away, but it relates to the assassination of a 822 00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:52,679 i think a populist politician or something to that effect. 823 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:57,559 So there's definitely some meat there in ways similar to 824 00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:00,840 kind of a clockwork Orange another Kuber film, where Kubrick 825 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:06,079 is telling us about the Tavistock style brainwashing attempts to 826 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,599 condition the public and the masses to have no to 827 00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:14,599 have no virility, no drive, no desire for change, to 828 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,119 just be to be passive and apathetic. That's essentially what 829 00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:21,159 they do with the the udlum character Alex in the 830 00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:23,880 film that you know, they turn him into a docile, 831 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,920 sort of sort of zombie. 832 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,840 Speaker 2: And finally, could you describe what happened to your word 833 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:31,840 Press account. 834 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,559 Speaker 1: I was basically I'd been with WordPress, I think for 835 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,280 nine or ten years, and they had a very strong 836 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,440 reputation for free speech. You know, my blog didn't include 837 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:54,480 anything significantly dangerous or violent, never call for violence, no 838 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,800 no affiliation with any fringe radical groups or anything like that. 839 00:52:59,039 --> 00:53:03,000 So there wasn't really any any cause for removal or 840 00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:05,559 in terms of violation of their terms of service. But 841 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:11,000 basically the site was just removed one day. So they 842 00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:14,039 give you seven days to export your site to some 843 00:53:14,159 --> 00:53:18,840 other place. And after a long time, I did finally 844 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:24,400 get an email from WordPress explaining what it was. And 845 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:29,480 the email had no substantive explanation. It just said it 846 00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:32,760 said basically the same thing that I was told when 847 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,840 it was taken down, which was that your site violates 848 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,960 our in terms of service. So no example, I don't 849 00:53:38,119 --> 00:53:41,000 I was never told what violated terms of service. I mean, 850 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,760 I'd been there for ten years. I was not just 851 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,760 a free customer. I was a long time paying customer 852 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,360 with the premium platform. But none of that got me anywhere. 853 00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:54,800 So I was removed at the same time as a 854 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,159 lot of alternative journalist media sites were removed the same day. 855 00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:02,760 Speaker 2: Jay Dyer, thank you so much, thank you. 856 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: It was a pleasure.