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Speaker 1: When your old career gives you lemons. Throwing some ice,

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mix in some vodka in color. A podcast from the

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Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by

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Victor Chrysler Dots jeep Ram.

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Speaker 2: It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.

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Thanks for getting your pot on. Thank you for telling

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a friend. That's how we spread the word about the

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pirate ship. A lot of local radio talk lately on

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the podcast here and there, and I did want to

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continue in a little bit but even talk further about radio.

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And I couldn't think of anybody better than BJ Shay

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because BJ has was part of Brother Weeze's world twice

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and then went off to Seattle and just exploded and

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just built an empire out there, and is uh, you know,

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currently living his best life. Is that the right way

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to say it? I don't know what. I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's what the kids are saying.

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Speaker 2: Live in my best life, living my best life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I tell everybody that I was kicked

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into retirement, kicked into and kicked into my dreams because

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I didn't want to leave radio when it happened. And

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I don't know if I completely left radio but it's

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been almost a year since I've had a job, and

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you know, Billy, what I found is not a lot

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of call for a sixty five year old, cisgendered, heterosexual,

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Caucasian broadcaster. For some reason, nobody is really banging down

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the door to get more old old white guys to

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give their opinions. I don't understand it. I feel like

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the country just doesn't have enough old white guy opinions.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm with you. I'm with you on that.

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The old white guy opinion was very popular. We had

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a run, beach, we had a run.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a man. And of course, just like

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my life, my entire career has been you know what,

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you're almost ready. Oh wait, now you are, but we're

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moving on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's it. That's yeah, that's very that's very funny.

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But you so we's uh. I'm going to say, I

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think to the audience abruptly retired. And I said on

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my episode yesterday that these decisions and a company and

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it was it's iHeart that he was working for. I said,

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there's so many layers there that any decision that seems

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to have come abruptly has not. It was four or

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five months in the making, and from what I understood

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from some insiders that I that still connect with me,

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because the great thing is there's somebody in Seattle that

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will talk to me once in a while because I

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was on their national rock platform, so I did like

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eighty stations for them, and I'd have to be all

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these meetings and stuff, and uh, I think it was

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the kisw st Eve Well anyway, doesn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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no no no no, no, yeah, not Steve Miggs. That's

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your guy, that was your old pride. No no, no,

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this is a paps. This was somebody way up in

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I heeart. Well maybe it was where anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not I probably don't know that.

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Speaker 2: That's my bad. But this guy would kind of tip

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me off to some things that were happening, and from

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what I understood, they wanted we used to stay and

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do his music show on the weekends through the end

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of the contract, which was coming up at the end

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of this year.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we said on his bro He deluded

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to that on his final.

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Speaker 2: Show, okay, and then he he did say that that

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was he wasn't going to do it, and he was

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very upset. We did talk briefly after his final broadcast,

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and he says he's going to do a podcast at

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some point, and he will do. He'll he'll reveal all

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at some point. But I just think that the people

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don't understand that these things. Well, there's two to me, Beach,

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and you can speak to this very well. There are

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two things that play here. One is business. Business is

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cold and has no emotion. It's just about making money

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or not making money. Was it Weez's fault that the

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station was not making money? No, he was near retirement himself.

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He was you know, he had it. I think he

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stayed longer than he intended to stay, but maybe I'm wrong.

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So I don't think there was anything really there. But

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the rest of the station, the ratings were horrible. The

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place was like basically a dumpster fire, and so you

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got to make a change. But the emotional side, and

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especially what we did and do is talk to people

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and make connections. And that's hard because you have become

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people's friends. And I think that I tried to look

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up some radio stats. I still think currently in the

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United States, and I don't know when this is from, up,

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around ninety two percent of Americans listened to the radio

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at least once a week. Thirty one percent tune in Daly,

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which is down from thirty seven percent in twenty twenty three.

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So we're going back a few years on that data,

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maybe even lower now, because do.

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Speaker 1: You know what the problem with that is? Really?

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: The problem with that is nobody in the advertising world

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believes those numbers. I don't know if they're true or not.

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I don't even not a statistician, but what I do

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know nobody believes it. Listeners, younger people don't believe that,

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and a lot of advertising agencies, big companies, they don't

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believe that. It is very frustrating. It's very very frustrating

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that if that number is true, that somehow, some way

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radio can't get people to believe it because my gosh,

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the price that radio charges for advertising, and if those

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numbers are true, the ritual investments insane, right, But that

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really is the big problem. They can't get people to

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believe that that number is true, that that that statistic

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is true.

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Speaker 2: So I'd like to go back at some point and

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hit so many your time with Wie's But let's keep

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on this sort of trajectory of what happens in radio.

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I mean, there's so many layers, and this is why,

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so they knew.

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Speaker 1: I have a great story that won't get me in

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trouble because it happened so long ago, but it will

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illustrate your point about the ridiculous nature of how they

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don't plan and how they are also so covert and

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ridiculously secret that they will hurt people's lives. They will

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do really dumb things. And this still goes on in radio.

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But this happened to me many years ago, so it

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won't get me in trouble in any current situation or

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even in anything that happened in the last twenty years

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of my career, because this happened more than twenty years ago.

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But this is very typical for radio, how they operate. Well,

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we'll get to that if you want to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'd like to, because I'm just saying that

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I think that they knew they were making this move

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back around May. That's my guest only because if it's iHeart,

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probably any radio company, they're going to want to do

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a music test, which takes time to find out what

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lane we go in if we're getting out of the

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spoken word genre, and then I think a lot of

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people were very hurt because of personality as big as

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We's and as such a part of the fabric of

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the community. It would be like Letterman saying, I'm retiring

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in a year, and we have time to prepare, and

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you do things, you practically have a parade for the person.

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I mean, I know some people go, wow, We's's old news. Okay, maybe,

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but he wasn't, and he, to me he deserved that.

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He did too much for the community. I think the

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problem BJ corporate radio is very big and runs very lean.

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When I left, I was doing business reports for the

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news station and helping produce Brother Weez's show, a talk

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show with John Detulio, and eighty stations around the county.

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I mean, it's just the way it is. And if

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you look at the guys in charge here, they're in

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charge all the way down to New York City practically

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along the Thruway in terms of markets and managing and

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all that. And I just think they don't have the

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manpower and they don't have the people who know Wes

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that well anymore to put something together. I really do.

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I don't know that it's a lack of caring. Certainly

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I guess I always say this, so maybe I'm contradicting myself.

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If you will, if you want to, you will. This

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is what I always say. If you want to, you will.

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So if they wanted to, I guess they would. But

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there was no I mean, it should have been planned.

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This hasn't been a secret to somebody that his contract

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was going to end. And that's the part that I go, boy,

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you really miss something. And oh, by the way, could

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have made a ton a ton of money, right, yeah,

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I mean really.

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Speaker 1: I was in that same situation with kisw for Odyssey

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where it was the last year of my contract in

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twenty twenty three, and it was the same thing. You know.

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It was they they were in a situation where they

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were like, we have to make a change. Uh. It

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was more financial in my case, whereas I don't know

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what the real issue is with why they couldn't do

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what they wanted to do and keep WE'SE. I don't know.

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I mean, we can you and I can guess, but

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I don't know why they decided to let We'se go.

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But for me, they were they it was financial. I

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got to talk to my general manager because he retired

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shortly after I left the station. So we got together

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for lunch and I'm you know, I put together. I said,

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I want to know everything, tell me everything. I'm not

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going to be mad at you. I just want to know.

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It's really good to know how things went down. And

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they you know, what they did, though, to their credit, was,

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you know, they gave me enough lead time and said, look,

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here's what we're going to do and it's not going

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to include you. And that gave me enough lead time

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to you know, to figure it out. They let me

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stay on air, which I thought was really bizarre because

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normally you don't want someone on here. You want to

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you want to force them to almost have like a noncompete.

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Speaker 2: That was a really, really I thought, unique situation for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the company, I'll tell you the local people,

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it says, well, I always love KISW. I don't know

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if corporate wanted them to do this, but I know

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that local management said we're going to do right by

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this guy. We're not going to enforce this. In Washington State,

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it's really hard to enforce a non compete. They're really

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unenforceable in most cases. And in my case, it would

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have been unenforceable because they just said we don't want

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you anymore, and then Washington State will say, well, he

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gets to go do what he wants. You said goodbye.

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They said, well, we're not going to give you a

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hard time anyway if you find something else, And they

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also said, we want to give you a proper sendoff.

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You've been here for almost twenty years at this radio station.

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You had amazing success for us, not only the fact

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that you worked for our company at another station and

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had great success. We want to honor you. And I

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was so they did the right thing, and my partner,

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Steve Miggs, put together a fantastic show for me. So

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to your point, Billy, it gave closure. That's the thing.

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The reason I wasn't going to do it first because

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I was bitter, because I was like, I can't believe

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that people don't want me. Because I had the weird

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thing where I was brought in an office. We had

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been fighting really hard with a very top show, the

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Brook and Jeffrey Show here in Seattle, and they're syndicated

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and they're a very successful show. But we were really

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going neck and neck with them at this point, and

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I finally beat them, like we were, you know, like

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in the month of May we were number three. Then

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in the month of JUNI we were number two. Finally

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in the month of July we were number one and

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beat them. So I get called in the management's office

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and I thought, they're going to be so happy with me.

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They're seeing that our show is amazing, and and then

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they said, no, we're going to let you go at

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the end of the year. I like, what, I've never

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been let go at number one. This is insane to me,

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but that's where the business is. But even still, they

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gave me the final show and I wasn't going to

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do it, but then a lot of people got to

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me and said, what about the listeners, what about everybody

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that loved you over the years, Like they give them

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some closure. Radio never it gives closure. And I finally said, okay,

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I'll do it. And I'm so glad that I did

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because everybody from the station came in. They got people.

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I mean, Steve did such a great job, he got

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rock luminaries, Duff McKagan is saying goodbye. Those are the

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kind of things. Even more, you know, it would have

237
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been a ton more for Weeze, because this is the

238
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great relationships he had.

239
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Speaker 2: This is what I believe they didn't do that. No,

240
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I and I do wonder beach honestly, if looking at it,

241
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I mean, look, you worked with Weeze, right, it would

242
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always be yeah, yeah ah bra ah bra you take

243
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care of that, right. He just exactly he was the

244
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guy behind the mic and living the life and bringing

245
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the stories in. Anybody else had to do the other stuff.

246
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And I even remember trying to get him. I put

247
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a syndication package together when I produced his show, and

248
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his agent, who since passed at the time, took.

249
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Speaker 3: It as he used the syndication package I put together

250
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for Opie and Anthony's a real story, that is absolutely true,

251
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and so I go, okay, But so I always just

252
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thought we's just needed someone who could kind of manage the.

253
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Speaker 2: Wize brand more or less. And I did that sort

254
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of as the when I was producing the show. But

255
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then you know, when he left and I did stayed

256
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with Tommy and we had some nice success and all

257
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I still, you know, I always, but I always appreciated

258
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Weez and I still think, I go, here's just an example.

259
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You worked at CMF Dave Kane did a music show

260
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afterwards Dave super talented, knows music, but he did, but

261
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he did a.

262
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Speaker 1: Music great guy too, by the way, Dave is such

263
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a good guy.

264
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Speaker 2: But forty years gets a key to the city, then

265
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then announces his retirement. They have a retirement party, they

266
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have a whole sendoff, they do all this stuff, and

267
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then the station he's on gets into the local music

268
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Hall of Fame and he's the one to induct it

269
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and wee'ze. It's like, see, you don't let the door

270
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,759
hits you in the ass. And that's the part that

271
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I think.

272
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Speaker 1: I want to say again because I just had a

273
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great career. That's an Odyssey station, and you talk about

274
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two different companies. Odyssey really you know, respects those brands. Now,

275
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Odyssey is not a perfect company.

276
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Speaker 2: Uh.

277
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Speaker 1: You know a lot of people, including myself, had a

278
00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:23,679
lot to say, but they definitely you see what they

279
00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:27,440
do for you know, Dave Kane, what Odyssey Seattle did

280
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,279
for me, and you see what was done for a wheez.

281
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:32,279
You know, it's it's pretty glaring.

282
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just wondered too, though, if if it

283
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,879
became locally, like everybody's just stretched so thin and people

284
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,759
around him now don't know him as well, Well, look,

285
00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:46,240
you know, like meg us with you from the beginning

286
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pretty much.

287
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, but to see the thing is that someone

288
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:51,720
could have done something. I agree if you if you

289
00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:55,360
listen to the broadcast. This seemed to be a shock

290
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,000
to his management team because it seemed because it seemed

291
00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:04,320
like up until because we said, I was going back

292
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,559
and forth at night lest I figuring out if I

293
00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:09,279
should do this. When I heard that, I thought so,

294
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,000
I bet his managers thought, oh, he's gonna tell everybody

295
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,919
I got a weekend show and I'm gonna go do.

296
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Speaker 2: That is exactly what they thought. That is exactly what

297
00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:17,879
they thought.

298
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So my thing is, I must.

299
00:15:21,919 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 2: See didn't such Weeze?

300
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this was gonna happen. But I'm a geeky

301
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,960
board game strategist, loser nerd I know Weez, And so

302
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,639
if I were his manager, I'd be like, guys, we

303
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,279
need to plan a plan B. What do you mean

304
00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:40,279
a plan B? He said he's gonna do this. I go, yeah,

305
00:15:40,279 --> 00:15:42,679
we said this right now, we still have twenty four

306
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,639
hours they need to get happened in twenty four hours

307
00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:47,440
with Weez? What are we going to do if, in fact,

308
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,240
he just doesn't want to do this. After all, I

309
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,200
would have asked that question in meetings and say, what

310
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,960
are we going to do? Secondly, you still should have

311
00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,519
a final show and then at the end you can go, oh,

312
00:15:59,519 --> 00:16:02,080
by the way, I'm not gone, I'm gonna go do this.

313
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,200
But it still should have been a final show because

314
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,279
he's no longer doing a daily show. He's no longer good.

315
00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:10,840
Come on, this should have It's such bad planning. And

316
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,639
I know some of the people that work there in management.

317
00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:17,960
I know them. I've done I've interacted with them as

318
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,600
a professional, and I have opinions. I won't give them, okay,

319
00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,559
because my mother and father taught me say, you know things,

320
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,080
you have nothing.

321
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,519
Speaker 2: Good to say about anybody screaming into a microphone.

322
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 1: Because of the some of the people that work there

323
00:16:35,159 --> 00:16:39,159
that I know, I am not surprised that this gut bungled.

324
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: I'll just say that, Yeah, well, I think that's fair.

325
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,919
Your time with Weez, I mean you really were part

326
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,000
of his great success or his rise to the great success.

327
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,639
You you were in there was you and Cindy and Weez,

328
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,279
and I mean that was a that was a very

329
00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:57,039
interesting yea.

330
00:16:57,919 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 1: I will tell you that he was at the top

331
00:16:59,399 --> 00:17:02,120
of his game. That like, the ratings were insane when

332
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,440
I got there, And I first got there with a

333
00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:06,440
person named Kris shi Or. She was the one that

334
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:08,960
recommended me for the job, and she was she was

335
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,039
the news person for our show. So it was Wheeze,

336
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:15,799
myself and Chris and then eventually Cindy came right. Ok. Yeah,

337
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:20,000
the trio of Cindy, Myself and Weez there was something

338
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,680
that just I think unlocked. Also, I Weeze in a

339
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,599
short amount of time teaches you that whatever you think

340
00:17:28,599 --> 00:17:30,599
you know about radio. And this was back in the eighties,

341
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,920
So I thought I knew about radio because everybody was

342
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,920
doing crappy radio and I was. I was at the

343
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,640
top of that heap of crappy radio. And then you

344
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,680
meet Weez and think is this This can't be No,

345
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,440
nobody does it this way. But eventually you realize as

346
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,480
an artist, he like you, Oh my god, this is great.

347
00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:49,319
This is so good. You could just feel it happening.

348
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:52,319
And even though management was resistant, even though a lot

349
00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,079
of people who did crappy radio were resistant, there was

350
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,319
he was such a threat to everybody's job because he

351
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,480
was up and being what was considered good and there's

352
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,920
there were so many people resistant to Weeze because they're like,

353
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,279
oh my god, people are going to turn around and

354
00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:08,920
realize I suck. I don't want that to happen. I'll

355
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,799
lose much. So I've got to make Weeze look like

356
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,880
he's bad, he's a problem. There was so much of

357
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,400
that that I saw in the early days, So much

358
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,160
of that, really, but it was great to learn. Yeah

359
00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:24,279
it was, but you know we's you know we's And

360
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:28,920
also I was it's funny. Weez is a very courageous

361
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,640
person on air. He will fight the good fight, do anything,

362
00:18:31,759 --> 00:18:35,559
but when it comes to management, he will play ball.

363
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:38,680
He doesn't like to fight. What I think he saw

364
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,400
in me was that I was too stupid to understand

365
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,400
you have to play ball. Oh yeah, And I was

366
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,079
much more courageous off air, Like on air, I was

367
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,559
afraid to take some of the Louise would go take it.

368
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,680
James daked, James, what are you doing? Just be who

369
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,160
you be you. I'm like Weezy, I'm a geek. Nobody

370
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,240
loves just be you being the love you of your you,

371
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,519
but nobody knows he goes You're right bright. I would

372
00:18:59,559 --> 00:19:03,839
never want to be we still got to be you there.

373
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,160
They would be like, here's what we want Wes to do,

374
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:08,039
and we would be like, he'd sit there and something,

375
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,400
you know, and he would ask for you know, forgiveness

376
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,440
rather than permission. But I could see that they would

377
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,519
try to beat him down, so off their pipe. Was

378
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:19,119
a terrorist because I saw that this is a great

379
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,680
talent and that management would try to give him a

380
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,279
hard time. So I decided, you know what, I'm going

381
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:28,200
to be the tiger that wee'ze isn't. And I was horrific.

382
00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:31,000
I was a horrific employee. But because We's and I

383
00:19:31,079 --> 00:19:33,920
got along, we had good ratings. I was able to

384
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,519
say things to management and do and frankly put them

385
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:39,200
in their place because I saw they were actually making

386
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,400
life tough on Weez and I thought, you're you guys

387
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,720
are insane. You're not supposed to make talent crazy. You're

388
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,240
supposed to support them. So I would say, well, you

389
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,720
know what, I'm going to be the angry guy here.

390
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:52,599
And unfortunately that's all I ever was in my career,

391
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,319
which is why I didn't have as great career as

392
00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:56,720
I could. Because I fought with management every day yeah,

393
00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:02,559
because management's mediocre. Pro tip for anybody in radio, if

394
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:05,079
you're a manager, don't tell anybody make up another job,

395
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,400
because being a manager in radio is lower than somebody

396
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,200
that sweeps you basically crap out of a zoo. You

397
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,920
are not good. Radio management is the lowest form of

398
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,839
life form there is, and you're not talented. I don't care.

399
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:20,880
If you're a CEO in radio, don't tell anybody you're

400
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,119
a CEO in that business because again, anybody can be

401
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,319
You can get a rangutanks to do your job, and

402
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,039
that's just you see things like this. This is a

403
00:20:31,319 --> 00:20:35,799
managerial failure on every level. I mean, his company on

404
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,279
every level failed. He is a Hall of Fame broadcaster

405
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,680
who gets in the Hall of Fame these days in

406
00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:47,319
radio from Rochester. From Rochester, I mean, I mean, oh,

407
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:51,440
it's this is a massive failure. And I can excuse

408
00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:55,599
corporate because look, the CEO of his company maybe shouldn't

409
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,839
know how great Wheeze is because most radio managers don't

410
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,119
know the that that's just the history of somebody being

411
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:05,240
just an amazing talent in a town like weiz but

412
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,000
local knows nobody. And this is a massive failure. And

413
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:13,039
this is what's wrong with radio radio Just I get

414
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,960
radio has its challenges, but it's always had challenges with

415
00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:18,640
bad management. They don't have people that go to managerial

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,480
training programs that actually teach them how to be managers.

417
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,400
They take people who should never interact with artists, and

418
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,279
that would be a salesperson. A salesperson should never interact

419
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,039
with an artist. It is the wrong thing to do,

420
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,720
and they put them in charge. A salesperson should never

421
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,279
be in charge of anything because they don't care about

422
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:39,960
anything but convincing people to do what they want. That's

423
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,200
not a good manager. The great going out and that's

424
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,960
what radio does. Or they'll get some program director who's

425
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,880
basically just a computer and they don't know how to

426
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,200
talk to people either. And radio continues to make this mistake.

427
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,680
They don't have casting directors, so they always put people

428
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,920
together who do not want to do radio together. Oh,

429
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,519
this person will be great with this person now they

430
00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:00,160
have no chemistry. How do you go to see that?

431
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,000
And it's the business is bereft of good management. Well, sorry, Billy,

432
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,559
I'm off, I'm off, and there's just I'm ranting about

433
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:10,119
how bad management is in the industry.

434
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 2: I hit that nerve. I hit that nerve beach.

435
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,079
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this, I mean, can you think of a

436
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:18,119
good manager, Well, I would like either I've worked with

437
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,079
in my career. It's how bad it is.

438
00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 2: I thought Stan Maine was great when I when I

439
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,559
worked with him. I don't know how he was when

440
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,119
when you if you when you worked with.

441
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: It, you know, I'll tell you right now. Stan was

442
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,039
one of those guys that he had to he had

443
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,640
to make the adjustment because Stan and I both were

444
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,440
cut from the same cloth, as is how you your radio,

445
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,880
and then We's upended both of our world right and

446
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,279
to stand to Stand's credit, Stan was like, Okay, I'm

447
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:44,680
going to make the adjustment, and you don't find a

448
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,039
lot of human beings that can do that. Sam Ming

449
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,279
was in person that could actually say, you know what,

450
00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:51,880
I'm not afraid of this. I will roll with this

451
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,079
because a lot of program directors would be afraid of

452
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,000
we is because they have to look like it's them refence,

453
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,359
it's made, it's doing this. I'm the one that's creating

454
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,039
the success. Stan realized there's no way that I can

455
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,440
sell that I'm in charge of the entire success of this.

456
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,680
Weeze is a huge part of it. But Stan was

457
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:11,480
really good at making the adjustment and then everything else

458
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:13,759
that happened on the radio station outside of Whez, Stan

459
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,880
was a master master, you know, orchestrator of all that. Yeah,

460
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,279
I agree with you. Stan was one of the good ones.

461
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:22,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought Stan was good. And then the late

462
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,559
John Thomas if you ever interacted with him.

463
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: I never got to work with John no j T.

464
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:32,799
Speaker 2: He was one of my absolute favorite guys. So two,

465
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:35,480
I had two good managers. Then there were you know

466
00:23:35,559 --> 00:23:38,880
the other ones I I turned into the carpet salesman.

467
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,599
Speaker 1: Did you ever work with a carpet salesman? Uh? Yeah,

468
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,839
the guy who the guy who told me wee'ze was

469
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:47,960
horrible and and now he's selling carpet somewhere. I'm just like,

470
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,559
you gotta be Why do I have to listen to

471
00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:51,880
a guy but I'm gonna wa Oh my god, I

472
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,519
know exactly, Yeah, you know who it is. It's like

473
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,200
he's literally was a carpet salesman.

474
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,319
Speaker 2: Oh, this guy's telling me, no, the biggest.

475
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: Success in Rochester shouldn't be on the radio. And then

476
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:05,160
two days later I'm walking the wall. He's asked me

477
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,920
if I want Burber or Shag. Get away from me, man,

478
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:10,319
please get away from me with this ridiculous name.

479
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,759
Speaker 2: That was. That's very funny. I forgot about it.

480
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,759
Speaker 1: Yes, I won't mention him by name, but he's a

481
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:19,160
complete lovely individual. Well, and I hope his carpet sales

482
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:19,480
are well.

483
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: The the It's just funny because I did think I

484
00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:31,279
had somebody come to me earlier in my career who

485
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,880
is maybe in managing still today, and said to me,

486
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,359
you could be a GM. Let me train you to

487
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,680
be a GM. You don't want to go in afternoons

488
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,359
and die somewhere. And I said no, and I blew

489
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,079
off the meetings and I wouldn't go because I didn't

490
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,119
want that. Now, I also wish I hadn't pushed so

491
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:58,240
hard against what I from whence I came, so to speak.

492
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,240
I came from you know, educated parents who had master's

493
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,720
degrees and doctorates and you know that sort of thing.

494
00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:08,200
And I just wanted to be the rebel. I wanted

495
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,680
to not have to tell you know what I mean

496
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,079
all these different things. So it was just very interesting

497
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,680
to me to see that, and I think it was

498
00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:20,000
wheeze over the years, and then especially when I was

499
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:22,079
part of his show that you could just kind of

500
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,960
be yourself and start to share your opinions and your insights.

501
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:28,559
And I had learned early on, and I don't know

502
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:31,599
about you, I had the I still think this was

503
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,839
one of the greatest times in radio for me. I

504
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,559
sat out of here at Saint John Fisher College here

505
00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:41,599
in Rochester now University, and I worked midnight to six

506
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,559
on rock station at Poughkeepsie, and I got bored playing music,

507
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,400
so I knew no one was, like, nobody important was

508
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,839
listening in the middle of the night. So I just

509
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,200
opened the phone speech and I did Who's up in

510
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,319
why at three o'clock in the morning, and I called

511
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,160
pay phos and I did all these and it was

512
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,200
just peep looking to feel like they had a friend

513
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,160
or they mattered and they were heard. And that's what

514
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,079
I realized radio was. And to me, that's the greatest

515
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:15,559
thing is I loved people. I was so curious about people.

516
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,200
I loved people. Why did they do certain things. I'm

517
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,519
not a strip club guy, but I had gigs at

518
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,119
strip clubs. I wanted to know what the fuck this

519
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,200
guy was coming every day to see Ginger who was

520
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,200
never going to sleep with him and he brought her

521
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,920
flowers once in a while. It was like, what's going

522
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,440
on in the head. I want to know, I want

523
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,559
to know. I found it so so interesting, really interesting,

524
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,599
and that was like it was a playground for me

525
00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:45,480
to do all that stuff. But then, you know, with

526
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:47,759
the cool thing with Weez was like cause I was

527
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,200
moranimal at first. He would make fun of me, and

528
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,799
I go, yeah, he's right, you're trying too hard because

529
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,319
authenticity has become it's now like the buzzword. You know, eh,

530
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,039
if it's a podcast is gonna work, it's got to

531
00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:04,440
be authentic. And it was, yeah, it always was. It

532
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:05,279
always was.

533
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,799
Speaker 1: We just we just denied it and whatever if somebody,

534
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,359
if somebody tells you they're authentic, you're like, no.

535
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:19,559
Speaker 2: You don't know, because yeah, it's the thing in the world,

536
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,839
that's the dumbest thing.

537
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: But we we He's one of those pipole He's like

538
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,039
the leaders, you know, he's like, he's liking treaties. I

539
00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:30,440
don't want to lead, son, but you gotta lead for

540
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:33,240
you Dune fans. We's was the talent who never believed

541
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,119
he was a talent. He never thought he was an artist.

542
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:37,279
We he and I had so many fights about this

543
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:39,759
because I really consider myself a performer, which is another

544
00:27:39,799 --> 00:27:42,720
problem radio was. They don't consider it performing art. They've

545
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,559
ruined the industry with this management mindset. That and some

546
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,359
guy named Leslow put out this Facebook message about how

547
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,440
radio is not in art and I took great exceptions that,

548
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,319
and I know Les, he used to work in my company.

549
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,279
And I'm just so tired of people who are not

550
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:01,640
artists are saying this business is not about art. It's

551
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,559
like it's a performing art. I mean, radio once convinced

552
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:07,000
this country we were being invaded by Martians. That's how

553
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:11,680
good of an art it was. So we typifies why

554
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:14,640
it's a great art, because he is perhaps the best

555
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,000
storyteller in this industry has ever seen. You and I

556
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:20,079
both know on or off the air. Once he starts

557
00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:24,960
spinning a yarn, he captivates whoever is around him. He

558
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,200
just doesn't know his own strength. I'm not an artist, bro,

559
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:29,000
I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna fight with you about this.

560
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,200
Yes you are. You have so much unbelievable talent. You

561
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,279
just don't want to know it for whatever reason. I

562
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,400
don't care. Just keep being you. But he is a great,

563
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,279
great talent. Again, another reason why this is such a travesty.

564
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:44,440
He could have been anything. He could have gone anywhere,

565
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,839
you know, Billy, we had opportunities to go to New

566
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,880
York and Los Angeles when we he and I were

567
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,839
working together. I put it air checks and things, you know.

568
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,559
And but he loved Rochester and he was just like, look,

569
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,319
I'm going to stay here. This is my town. I

570
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,519
love this place. I'm I'm successful here. And he still

571
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,319
transcended Rochester. I mean that Woodstock video that he made,

572
00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:11,200
you know, was people. I put that on my page recently,

573
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:13,079
just said hey, I want you guys to know a

574
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:15,480
bit about the man that was my mentor and who

575
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,119
means so much to me. My listeners were like, oh

576
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:20,400
my god, this guy is so cool. I wish I

577
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,359
could have listened to him.

578
00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:22,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.

579
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,559
Speaker 1: He was a great talent. And that's why it's so

580
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:28,519
sad if this is how he goes out. I just

581
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,400
it's just what a ridiculous, ridiculous travesty. And this is

582
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,920
I wish the radio had a governing body. I mean,

583
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,359
even though like in the NFL, the commissioner is useless,

584
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,759
but still every once in a while, the commissioner will

585
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:42,400
go to the you know, go to the owners and say, look,

586
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,000
this is a bad look. Can you guys do something

587
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,839
about this. I know you guys run the show, but

588
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,880
can you do something about this. It's a bad look.

589
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,119
And there's nothing in radio that seems to be able

590
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,599
to go to the major companies and say this is

591
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,440
a bad look. You need to do it differently. Look,

592
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,079
and I don't have a problem with the what, it's

593
00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:59,960
the how we you know, we've had to go Probably

594
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:01,640
that's what they said. Okay, I mean, I'm not going

595
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,319
to argue with that. There's an inspiration date on everything. Yeah, exactly,

596
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:07,200
it was horrible.

597
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:09,519
Speaker 2: You were absolutely right. And I think that they knew

598
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:11,359
that he had signed on for one more year and

599
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,960
this was going to be the last year. I think

600
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160
they knew that at the beginning of the year. I

601
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,240
think they knew they were flipping the format on the

602
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:21,680
station sometime many months ago. And that's the bummed out part,

603
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,960
because people do lose jobs and it comes down as

604
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,279
a sudden and shocking thing to you. But they knew

605
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:31,240
it all along.

606
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,039
Speaker 1: And why do they have to keep these things a secret?

607
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:36,279
Speaker 2: To me?

608
00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: Like, maybe they will try to just the plans. I

609
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,599
get him throwing out some plans, but they could tell

610
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,799
wei's after we signed that contract, or maybe whenever they

611
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:48,440
made the decision, pull them aside and say, hey, we're

612
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,720
not going to continue with you. That's what happened to me.

613
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:54,359
And my company trusted me because I was still on

614
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,359
the air for five months. They trusted me not to

615
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,839
go on and lose my ass. I mean they were

616
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,039
they trusted that I wouldn't go on there and just

617
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:05,519
start bad mouthing everything and blow the place up. I

618
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:07,319
mean that was five more months I had to do

619
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:10,839
a show knowing that I was dead man walking. Radio

620
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:14,480
doesn't seem to get that. It's different now, you know.

621
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,160
And let's make a plan, let's have an exit. And

622
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:20,319
like a story I wanted to tell you is this

623
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,880
was more than twenty five This maybe thirty years ago.

624
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,079
I applied for a job and they said, okay, we

625
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,000
love you. Let's go the general manager of the program director.

626
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,720
We sat down, everybody loved each other, and they said, look,

627
00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:34,200
come on over and I'm like, oh, I need a contract,

628
00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:36,359
and they go, well, yeah, our company's not going to

629
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,799
let us give you a contract. I said, well, I'm

630
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:40,720
not coming out. I'm not moving my family to your town.

631
00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:43,759
And they thought, well, yeah, that's reasonable. So they went

632
00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:45,920
back to their company. Their companies like, well, we're not

633
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,839
going to give them a contract, and they said, what

634
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,759
do you want us to do. We're not going to

635
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:51,640
hire somebody good and they're not going to read their

636
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,720
family out. So the company begrudgingly said oh fine. And

637
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:01,160
the reason they were so resistant, and this is what happened, Billy,

638
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,799
and this is this is still what happens. A month

639
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:06,680
after I got there and started my morning show, they

640
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:11,240
fired the general manager. Three months they fired the program director,

641
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:15,359
and in five months the station at Flip format there

642
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:18,160
was a brand new morning show. I had a guaranteed contract.

643
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,079
So they said, well, we're going to move you to evenings.

644
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,279
Speaker 2: Oh this is Phoenix.

645
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah oh okay, now you know, yeah exactly. They knew

646
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,119
all the time. They knew all the time. I'm like,

647
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,680
you shouldn't have hired me. I moved my entire family,

648
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,960
and the company knew that they were never going to

649
00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:38,799
keep me. And the sad thing was is I actually

650
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:40,960
did get good ratings that they should have kept me,

651
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,119
because they hired a different show and here's Oh, here's

652
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,480
the other stupid. This is the thing that radio does.

653
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,720
So I had a bonus structure that said, hey, you'll

654
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:51,880
get ratings if you're in number one, number two or

655
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,960
number three, you'll get bonuses. At night. I was number one.

656
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:56,759
I was number one at night. I had a great

657
00:32:56,759 --> 00:32:58,519
show at night. And they said, yeah, but we're not

658
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:00,440
going to bonus you. I'm like, why are you a bonus,

659
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,559
because well, your contract says that it's six to ten am.

660
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,000
And I looked at the manager and I said, and

661
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:11,200
you look really happy. I was. I did get one

662
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:12,880
bonus when I was at the company. It was my

663
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,000
first book I got. I was number two, and then

664
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:18,200
they took me off boardings and said we're going to

665
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:21,839
put this other guy on. That other guy never ever

666
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:24,000
got me a bonus. And I said to him and

667
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:25,799
he was always laughing, like, ah, we needed not to

668
00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:28,039
give you because the six And I said, you're the

669
00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:31,119
idiot that doesn't have bonuses in the morning. I want

670
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:32,880
to tell you. You can be mad. You could sit there

671
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,960
and think your genius, but your morning show is so

672
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:38,839
bad that you don't have any bonuses. You want bonuses.

673
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,240
You want to be number one ray. It was so

674
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:44,240
bad and it's still that way. It is still that way.

675
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,799
They keep secrets, they ruin people's lives, They don't do

676
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,519
what you're supposed to, and they don't give a damn

677
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:51,880
about the customer. Because the customers like what happened? What

678
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,000
do you go? Or even the way we went out.

679
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:56,279
People are just sad like this is it? This is

680
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,920
and they don't care. And you know why they don't

681
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,000
care because they know, in my opinion, this is my opinion,

682
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:04,680
they know radio is on the way out. They're strip

683
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,839
mining it. They just know that they're going to leave

684
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,039
a dead husk and the golden parachute. People don't care.

685
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,239
And the company and the two big companies have new owners.

686
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:16,639
They have these new owners with restructuring and bankruptcy. These

687
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:21,239
new owners do not care about anything but just getting

688
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,119
the last drop of data. They don't care. And anybody

689
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:27,079
with a brainer head knows this. The radio once she

690
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,239
unfortunately is not in good shape. And it's because the

691
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,480
people that just don't care at least in my opinion,

692
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:34,599
in the big, big, big company.

693
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right. I think that the corporate

694
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,800
radio we'll call it, that has ruined radio to a

695
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,920
certain extent in that Oh, and I have said on

696
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,320
this podcast, I was part of the problem. You're on

697
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,440
in markets. You've never walked the street. You're reading liners

698
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,519
talking about an event that's going on that you don't

699
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,280
even know. If you're pronouncing it correctly, they may call

700
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,960
you up and go, hey, man, it's the Hucinani not

701
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:02,199
hu chanuni or whatever. I'm just saying like anything that

702
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,000
was a colloquialism was lost in that, and so now

703
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:09,679
you've homogenized and lost those things. I will ask you this.

704
00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:15,079
I do believe that radio is still viable, primarily in

705
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,719
the spoken word format at a local level, if you

706
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,800
brought it back to the local level. So you're in Seattle,

707
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:26,320
we're here in Rochester, if you had stations that were

708
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:30,039
just serving here. And that's why I don't like when

709
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:32,519
I hear I don't care who it is. I don't

710
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:34,719
care what my relationship was with the person, if we

711
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,679
ever worked together. I don't like hearing local voices off

712
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,719
the radio. I don't. I think that it's bad for

713
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,159
the industry as a whole, and I think it hurts

714
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,679
the local community because you know, if I the one

715
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,880
oh four Bridge and it feels like it sways. I

716
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,880
don't know that if I'm not if I've never driven

717
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,039
the one oh four bridge, you understand what I'm saying,

718
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:56,360
Like back to Webster. So those are the things that

719
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,079
I think that I go. But if somebody, and I

720
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:02,519
do think at some point they're gonna have to start

721
00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:04,440
selling them off because they're not going to be making

722
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,119
their money and they've gotten so big. And you know,

723
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,800
Ryan Seacrest seems like a real nice guy, but he's

724
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,719
on all the stations. It's homogenized, you know, for for

725
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,199
iHeart and whoever it is for Odyssey has certain talent

726
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,880
like that as well, and to be those talent, it's great,

727
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,440
that's nice. It's a nice life, but it's not a

728
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:28,320
very you don't get that personal. And that's the thing

729
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,960
that weiz to me was like I started thinking about it.

730
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,719
We weren't talking. I mean, I produced the show during

731
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,360
its cancer time, and I will never forget when when

732
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,360
he was on, he would come on from New York

733
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,480
City and he was talking about how bad the radiation

734
00:36:42,639 --> 00:36:44,400
is and how much it sucked. He would only some

735
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,280
days it was a half hour, some days not at all,

736
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,119
some days two hours but you know he did as

737
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:50,440
much as he could during that time.

738
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: I have a story about his cancer that will also

739
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,039
illustrate how horrible this industry is. I will tell you.

740
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,400
I will tell you if you want. I mean, I

741
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,639
don't even know if Weez knows this story. I don't

742
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:06,719
know if I've even told him, But I will tell

743
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,559
you something that when you're ready, Yeah, let me finish.

744
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,199
Speaker 2: Let me finish this thought, and we'll go to that.

745
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,920
Because here's my point with why I think we've needed this.

746
00:37:18,519 --> 00:37:23,519
Weez's son, Sammy, was I don't know how old, like seven, six, five,

747
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:26,280
I don't know, somewhere in there, maybe ten, somewhere in

748
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,159
that range. I'll say five to ten years old when

749
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,880
we'ves was going through this and Weeze comes on and

750
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,239
he's talking about how bad it is and how bad

751
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,880
the radiation is. And a listener who was very active,

752
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,480
and some listeners would become part of your life, like

753
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:43,639
I had guys come over when I was on the

754
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,880
radio doing mornings and help me build a treehouse for

755
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,679
my kids. Just listeners pulled up did the thing right.

756
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:51,559
We's had people like that too, And this woman who

757
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:53,760
would be on the radio and get talked about and

758
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,639
got known because through the Wei show, calls up and says, Weez,

759
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:00,280
if you want to give up, you've done it everything

760
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,039
you can. We love you, we support you. But if

761
00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:05,679
you just can't hack it, we understand, don't worry about it.

762
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,360
And man, you would have thought. Doreen practically dove across

763
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,920
whatever couch she was near. She's screaming into the microphone,

764
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,360
don't you tell my husband to give up? What the

765
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,480
And then somebody has Sammy, who's still here in Rochester.

766
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,599
He's like a little boy. He gets on, he goes, Daddy,

767
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:25,599
don't give up. He's calling, and I go, you can't

768
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,599
have I mean, that was emotional and an investment. And

769
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:32,480
it was the Osbourne's before the Osbourne's. It was you

770
00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:34,119
know what I'm saying. It was a real It was

771
00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:37,239
a real reality show. There was nothing scripted here. We's

772
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,880
had no writers. Stern has writers, Ryan Secrets has writers.

773
00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:44,480
He didn't have writers. And that stuff was so authentic

774
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,760
and and and people remember it. I remember sitting in

775
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,360
the studio just I had headphones on and I'm sitting

776
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,320
there with a microphone in front of me saying nothing

777
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,480
because I don't know what to say, and I'm just

778
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:56,599
taking all this in. I go, you can't have that

779
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,320
personality in this town so into the fabric of people's

780
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,000
lives and people so into his life and just go, well,

781
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:09,039
that's it, folks, it just doesn't work. Now what happened

782
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:09,440
during the.

783
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: Cash You're right, Billy, That's why this is such a

784
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:18,199
travesty many of the industry. In the industry itself, so

785
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,559
many people contacted me, people that nobody in Rochester know,

786
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:26,840
but they knew Weeze. He affected their lives by going

787
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,719
to conventions and just owning the panels and being Weeeze

788
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,559
on panels. He changed so many radio careers. People just

789
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:35,119
did an about face and said, oh, we better stop

790
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,239
doing our show. The way we're doing it will never win.

791
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:41,440
Weeze is the future. So many people love him and

792
00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:43,679
would have come on his show like it would have

793
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,400
been a cavalcade of stars of anybody and everywhere. It's

794
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,239
disappointing to all of us, including a lot of people

795
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,920
that Rochesterians don't know about, but radio luminaries that would

796
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,800
be like, you got to be kidding me. My story

797
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:01,119
is that right after the Phoenix tobacle, where I was

798
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:06,079
doing nights. I was brought back to Rochester. Oh yeah,

799
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:09,360
so I didn't know this. This is where I had

800
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,039
to talk to the carpet salesman. And I had a

801
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:14,039
massive bar getting with the carpet salesman because I went

802
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,760
to the carpet salesman. And when I was brought in,

803
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:19,440
we believe in you. We want to do this afternoon

804
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,679
personality show, and we're going to put you with Bowl,

805
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,679
and I love Bowl, and I personally believe Bull and

806
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,719
I were onto something really good. Even though we was like,

807
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
what the hell are you guys doing? I just felt like, look, dude,

808
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,199
I think we're doing something that eventually became the core

809
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,719
of what I did in Seattle and made me whatever

810
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,679
the hell I am in Seattle. But at the time

811
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,440
it was really revolutionary. We got good response. It wasn't

812
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,760
like we were horrible, but we weren't brought there for that.

813
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,960
That was the problem. We were not brought there to

814
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,199
do an afternoon show. They really thought the management team

815
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,360
thought that Weez was going to die. Yeah, they thought

816
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,599
he was going to die and they wanted me as

817
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:01,920
a replace, but they didn't tell me that. They moved

818
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,880
me and my family out there and they just said, oh, hey,

819
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,440
we just want you. You're a great talent. How cool

820
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,000
would it be. We's in the morning, BJ in the afternoon. Yeah,

821
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,519
I mean they old they sold me on this. They

822
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:16,320
also paid me really well, so I thought, okay, they're

823
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,480
not full of crap, you know. So I thought, all right,

824
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:22,440
I mean I'll do this. I love Rochester. What a

825
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:30,400
great opportunity. And then when we didn't die, Honestly it

826
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,679
was it was amazing. How yeah, it's like I then so,

827
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,039
you know, and I remember I was my my family.

828
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:39,480
We wanted to buy a house. We were there for

829
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:42,039
like one and a half years, and my wife was like,

830
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:44,360
let's buy a place. You know, the kids love it here.

831
00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:47,400
So we we you know, we we found a nice

832
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,800
place in Brighton. The kids loved the school, they loved

833
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,719
their friends, they loved the neighborhood. And I went to

834
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,920
them before buying the house. Because we had toured the neighborhood.

835
00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:56,079
And the neighborhood a couple of people knew that who

836
00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:57,920
I was, and so they were like, please move in,

837
00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:01,000
you know, And so I went to the carpet salesman

838
00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:04,239
and I said, look, I'm getting a vibe here. I

839
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,679
just have by spidy senses tingling. I don't know, but

840
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,119
I just feel like I shouldn't buy a house. But

841
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:14,679
my wife is killing me. We can afford to buy

842
00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:17,079
a house, but I just feel like this might not

843
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:19,000
be the right thing. Why am I getting this vibe?

844
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: No, you're here forever, You're here forever.

845
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:27,679
Speaker 1: I buy the house. Three months later, they're like, you're done,

846
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:31,519
and it's I noticed. So I'm like, what has happened?

847
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:35,440
So I remember being me. I peppered the carpet salesman.

848
00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:38,039
I insulted him. I did everything I could because I

849
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:40,920
know all the behavioral science strategies to get people to

850
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,599
tell you the truth, and you know, you cook it

851
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:47,199
every button you can. And finally he finally is he

852
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,519
just blurted it out. He's like I thought he was

853
00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:52,800
going to die. It isn't dying. Somebody'll need you. I'm like,

854
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,920
oh my god, and I that's radio.

855
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: It's like, I.

856
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: Say, you up ended my entire life. I had a life,

857
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,280
and you moved me to Rochester under these false pretenses.

858
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,599
And oh it's like I am so angry at this

859
00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:11,599
business because I had just gone through it in Phoenix

860
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:16,079
with lying deception and you know, I'm so happy Weez

861
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:19,239
is a lot, but it's like, did Weze know that

862
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,519
they didn't care about him? They were just trying to

863
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:24,199
keep the gravy train going. And first of all, there's

864
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,960
no way I could have replaced Weees. It's like, I

865
00:43:26,159 --> 00:43:28,400
don't know, but I want a bunch of morons.

866
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: He really So at that time, I was like the

867
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,360
promotion director, so I would be in some of these

868
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,320
meetings and they called it building a bench. So they

869
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,920
wanted you, and they brought in Beth to do knights

870
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,920
and I thought it was great. And then they moved

871
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,280
me out of a management role and put me on

872
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:50,360
the zone to do mornings, which was another station that

873
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,079
they had, and that was that was fine. Yeah, I

874
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:54,559
remember that, but but that was it. And so I

875
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:57,719
never really heard much after that. But I was under

876
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,559
the impression everybody knew they were building a bed and

877
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,480
you forget that. They say a lot of stuff behind

878
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:07,159
closed doors that they don't tell you, and I don't

879
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:09,880
know if it's well, it's two things. One it's a

880
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,760
power play and the other is I just think they

881
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,559
think less of talent, like you're too emotional, you can't

882
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:20,000
handle it, and it's a radio thing. It's not a

883
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:22,920
TV thing. And I always love because I want to.

884
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,079
I'm working on something that i'd like to do where

885
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,239
I go out and I would come to Seattle even

886
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,840
and film just conversation radio days stories like this. And

887
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,159
one of the guys I want to sit down with

888
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:39,519
who I talked to once and told me a fuck

889
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:42,199
a great story about radio. He had been in TV.

890
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,400
He gets in radio. The management, his manager calls up

891
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,199
and says, hey, can you provide peanut butter? He wants

892
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:52,280
peanut butter in the morning, can provide peanut butter? And

893
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,760
the radio is like, what, we don't do that here,

894
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,400
That's not what we do. And they're like, this is

895
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,039
in craft services. This is a but like you see

896
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:05,199
the disparity how they treated talent like talent in TV

897
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,960
it would be like, what do you want? We're gonna

898
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,639
make sure you're happy, we want you to be at

899
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:11,119
your best. We're looking for the best from you. How

900
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:12,880
can we help pull the best out? How do we

901
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,239
make you comfortable? How do we do that? Radio? It's

902
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,440
like fuck that you and her or him and him

903
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:22,440
and you and go It's like, oh my god. And

904
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,519
when you look at it is. It is absolutely insane,

905
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:28,239
and that does make me laugh. It's funny. I hadn't

906
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,119
really thought of it that way, Beach and I got

907
00:45:30,199 --> 00:45:32,480
I love that you're calling this guy the carpet salesman.

908
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,280
He was such a douche. I just have to say this.

909
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,440
I've told this story a few times. I've never used

910
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,159
his name. I don't know if it was prior or

911
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,440
after you. No, I had to be prior to you.

912
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:48,360
He had inserted himself because they Stan Maine put me

913
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,440
in afternoons and then was sort of pushed out to

914
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:56,840
Austin and so I'm doing afternoons and the carpet salesman

915
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,400
becomes the guy in charge now comes in and he

916
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:05,199
would do he was part of a show in Boston,

917
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,719
which was a pretty big show in Boston, and he

918
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,719
would play bits for weez you need to do stuff

919
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,440
like this, and it was like drunk magnum Pi, like

920
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,880
magnum p. I wasn't even on the fucking air at

921
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,480
the time. So this is what this guy's doing. And

922
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:24,199
then he decides that he was trying I didn't realize this.

923
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,480
Here's another one. He was trying to push me because

924
00:46:26,519 --> 00:46:29,920
at the time I might have been twenty four, twenty three,

925
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,440
twenty four years old, trying to push me to overnights.

926
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,679
He wanted Uncle Roger, who did overnights, to come and

927
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,639
do like afternoons. And Roger wasn't coming off overnights because

928
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:39,360
he didn't want to deal with management. He didn't want

929
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,360
to see people during the day.

930
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,639
Speaker 1: And he just like, yeah, you know what, Roger was

931
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,320
perfect for right where he was. There's no way he

932
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,239
wanted to interaction. No the idiots. So he was smarter

933
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,400
than all of us. He was smarter than all of us.

934
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: So this guy decides that he's going to extend Dave

935
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,199
Kane to four and then he's going to do four

936
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,840
to six, and then I was due to do six

937
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,320
to nine. He used the radio as a dating service.

938
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,400
He would oh, oh, he dated calling number nine. He

939
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,840
would invite the women up. They would get he'd tell

940
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,519
them they'd have to get there because I think the

941
00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:15,079
station closed at five thirty. I think the office the

942
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:17,480
front office. So he said you got to get here

943
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,639
before five thirty. And then he would ask people to

944
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:24,400
go up and check out the woman and if she

945
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:29,199
was oh, lovely, somewhat decent, you could he would come

946
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,639
out and see them, but if not, he had a meeting,

947
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,639
something popped up, he couldn't get to them. Blah blah blah.

948
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,199
Speaker 1: This is the car kind, yeah, leader, yes, yes, this

949
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,360
is it. I can't tell you that leader.

950
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: I had another one, Beach. I played strip poker or

951
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,199
strip trivia, and a woman would come up and she

952
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,000
was just a listener and she was pretty open, even

953
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:54,360
on the radio at times, saying my husband travels a lot.

954
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,840
And she talked, she danced the line, but saying how

955
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,559
lonely she would get. She calls me once and says,

956
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,719
I just left your boss out of and she names

957
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,639
the hotel he had banged, and she's going on about

958
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:10,599
how terrible he is, and she's telling me this whole story,

959
00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:13,119
and he walks in the fucking studio and you know

960
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:16,199
how like the calls, yeah, I'm playing music, but the

961
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,360
little speaker. Oh god. It was an awful day for me,

962
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:21,840
but at the same time so entertaining. And it tells

963
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,760
you so much about these people, so much about these

964
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,440
people that there's this internal happiness that they just don't have,

965
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,199
and so they got to then shit on everybody else,

966
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,199
and that's not what you need. To be in life.

967
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,079
Speaker 1: Radio's best people are its talent because they're artists that

968
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:40,559
want to make the world a better place. You know,

969
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,800
Wese you know how Weez is at the end of

970
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,880
the day. You know, his show was his heart coming

971
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,360
through trying to make the world a better place. A

972
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,400
lot of people may have had complaints about the fact

973
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,320
that was too political, but Weise was like, dude, I

974
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,639
am doing what I can do to give back and

975
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:01,519
make the world a better place. That's who he's always been, right,

976
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:03,360
and that's the heart of an artist, which is why

977
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,239
he and I will always fight. It's like we as

978
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,880
you are so an artists, you have the heart because

979
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,760
that's what artists do. Artists want to just use whatever

980
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,199
their gifts are to make the world better. You know.

981
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,239
And sure, whether you agree with his politics or not,

982
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:18,559
you can't disagree with where his heart is. And you know,

983
00:49:18,639 --> 00:49:21,360
like he said in the Woodstock video, he never grew

984
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,119
into this conservative person who was bitter and stopped having

985
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:27,679
a heart. He just maintained that he was the same

986
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,000
hippie that he always was with those ideals and can't

987
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,039
we all just get along and love each other? I mean, yeah, God,

988
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:38,320
that's a horrible credo to live by, isn't it. Whereas

989
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,400
radio management, those are not the best of the best.

990
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:43,920
There's a great story which I love, the Hitchhiker's Guide

991
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,800
to the Galaxy. At the end of that book, at

992
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,920
the end of the multiple books, they basically leave a

993
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,360
planet and leave all the salespeople behind, all the marketers,

994
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,800
all the salespeople, because they go, you really add nothing

995
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,320
to humanity, right, And it's so we know this, and

996
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,440
I know not all salespeople are bad. And also salespeople

997
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,760
have been pretty mistreated by our industry as well. I

998
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,199
have all your friends that, yeah, but it's the salespeople

999
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,320
that go into management that really don't belong in management,

1000
00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:16,840
that just don't have the skill set. It's like, hey, look,

1001
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,920
go out and sell what you sell, thank you very much,

1002
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,920
but you're not a manager. And they ruin talent, they

1003
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,679
ruin this business, and they ruin people's just will to

1004
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,199
live sometimes because they don't understand how we operate. The

1005
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,639
reason you get us for a ridiculous price, and the

1006
00:50:33,679 --> 00:50:35,880
reason kids are still wanting to do this is they

1007
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,400
love the art. That's why they'll do five jobs, ten jobs,

1008
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,920
twelve jobs and get paid minimum wage. It's not because

1009
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,320
you're a great negotiator and you pull one over. It's

1010
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,000
because they don't care about money. They want to do

1011
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:50,840
their art, and this business takes advantage of that, like

1012
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,559
you know nothing. I mean a lot of entertainment businesses do,

1013
00:50:53,679 --> 00:50:56,199
but radio is the worst, I think, And I mean

1014
00:50:56,199 --> 00:50:58,440
that's why it's the way it is now. Because the internet,

1015
00:50:58,639 --> 00:51:00,920
these people could go on the Internet and do your heart. Yes,

1016
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:04,559
and now they can make pretty much what radio is paying,

1017
00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:07,440
because radio is not paying like it used to. And

1018
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,760
someone says, I can go do a podcast and get

1019
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,960
my Patreon going and pretty much make the same money

1020
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,840
that you want to pay me, except I don't going

1021
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:14,920
to listen to your crap.

1022
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:16,559
Speaker 2: Why exactly.

1023
00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's and radio still has the arrogance like,

1024
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,119
oh no, we're the big dog, we're the big and

1025
00:51:22,159 --> 00:51:24,280
I'm like, no, your stock price is lower than you know,

1026
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:28,760
the low sea level, and you can't be arrogant. You can't.

1027
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,960
You've just been delisted. No, you're not a Wall Street

1028
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,599
company anymore, and therefore don't act like you are. You

1029
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:38,800
guys have failed. It's a failure, but you still can

1030
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,480
do something. But you need to figure out that your

1031
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,400
failures and get people who are not failures. If they

1032
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,920
fired everybody in management and brought people and got brought

1033
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,440
in anybody into the half price, they can't do a

1034
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,239
worst job. I don't care who they bring it. They

1035
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,119
can't do a worse job. And that's the sad thing

1036
00:51:54,119 --> 00:51:56,480
about it. And they keep instead cutting talent and cutting

1037
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,400
people and cutting this. A really good friend of mine

1038
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,840
just got let go of Odyssey and he a terrific

1039
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,480
talent behind the scenes guy, and boy was he so

1040
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:08,920
instrumental in so many things that we did. He made

1041
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,119
us look so good at all of our live broadcasts,

1042
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:13,519
remotes and all the wonderful things we did at w

1043
00:52:14,039 --> 00:52:16,760
He was a guy that nobody ever saw, but was

1044
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,400
so instrumental and wore a ridiculous amount of hats and

1045
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,440
still no room for him. Ridiculous. It's just so ridiculous

1046
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,519
what this business has become.

1047
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's running lean and it's one that doesn't care.

1048
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,840
And then and on the artist's side, you do you're

1049
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,320
more of an emotional sensitive person. Not you, I mean

1050
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,960
collective you. Our language is bad, right, we don't have

1051
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:42,559
a collection.

1052
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: And we deserve better. And listeners of Rochester listeners, because

1053
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,719
let's be honest, I would say a third to fifty

1054
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,480
percent of that town know who we'z is. Whether or

1055
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,320
not you listen to a show, or you might have

1056
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,280
listened to a little bit, but you've got generational listening.

1057
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,440
You've got grandfathers, fathers, and sons and daughters and grandmothers

1058
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,599
and mothers who listened. I said, listened together. Yes, he

1059
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,880
was perhaps one of the biggest stars ever to come

1060
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,800
out of that town in any entertainment media. And that's

1061
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:21,320
the send off. Okay radio, okay radio, what what? And

1062
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,800
where's the governing body to pull somebody aside and say this,

1063
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,360
this is bad. You guys have hurt the industry. You

1064
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,960
guys have hurt our industry. And I don't know the

1065
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:33,719
NA B, the R A B, you're just letters to me.

1066
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,719
I don't think you do a damn thing because you

1067
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,440
allow this to happen. You're like you're you're like that.

1068
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:41,679
You know, you like the mlbmission you like you like

1069
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,519
the NFL commissioner. You're useless, you really are. Uh And

1070
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:48,239
I'm sorry to say it, but that's what I do.

1071
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,599
That's why nobody wants to work with me. You know,

1072
00:53:50,679 --> 00:53:53,480
Weize would never say that Wise's last show. Weez and

1073
00:53:53,559 --> 00:53:57,039
Dorian were so kind on their last show, you know,

1074
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,119
yeah anymore, they were kind, and I know they wanted

1075
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:03,599
to make sure they didn't in trouble for anybody. I

1076
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,079
get that me. No, I mean even on my last show,

1077
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,719
I basically called out the ables I did anyway, even

1078
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,679
though it was my last show. You're a great guy.

1079
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,280
Let's talk too tough for cake it And I'm like,

1080
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:15,679
oh yeah, I don't forget the guy who used to

1081
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,639
work for He's a moron. I hope he dies. You know.

1082
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,440
That was me because I'm just so angry at the

1083
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,360
people that ruin this business. And it was my last show,

1084
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,320
so like, what are you gonna do? You know, you know,

1085
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,159
I don't know. I don't know how we since got

1086
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:34,119
in his contract. You know, I understand obviously, you know

1087
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,960
if depend how long it is, you know, all right,

1088
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,400
you got to play nice for me. That day was

1089
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,280
my last day, Like that was my last Like, okay,

1090
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,599
you're not gonna pay me tomorrow, So what are you

1091
00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:46,840
gonna do? Not pay me? You're gonna fight? I mean,

1092
00:54:47,039 --> 00:54:49,639
so I was happy to go out that way, and

1093
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,400
I I also am a fair person. I love my

1094
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,440
local management team. I thought the corporate people that I

1095
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,960
had to deal with were idiots and all the weight

1096
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,599
to the top and they just were not good at

1097
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:04,760
their jobs. And you know if they were well with us, horrible,

1098
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,360
I go, well, point to the rates. Their ratings are

1099
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,159
the stock price. You're not good at your job. I

1100
00:55:08,159 --> 00:55:11,360
don't care whatever email you put out there. Your ratings

1101
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:15,519
are horrible because no one's making money off your company.

1102
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,719
You should you should do a career sepaku, do us

1103
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,159
a favor, Go out behind a friggin' bush and fall

1104
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,800
on the career sword and save. I saw the embarrassment.

1105
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:25,119
Speaker 2: Now.

1106
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, if you had any dor,

1107
00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:30,360
if you were raised in a culture like the Japanese culture,

1108
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:31,920
you would do that for your family.

1109
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 2: Beads talk to me about the mental health stuff a

1110
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:37,360
little bit, because.

1111
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: I didn't really talking about a perfect look at me

1112
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:40,800
I have a picture of.

1113
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 2: But we'll get to the show you did. But here's

1114
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:49,880
one that shocked me, saddened me deeply, was whatever was

1115
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,400
going on with Ace? Uh? You know that one caught

1116
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,000
me Batman caught me by surprise, and I know there

1117
00:55:57,039 --> 00:55:59,880
was a lot of uh, there was some tragedy in

1118
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:04,880
his life of recent recent kind and changes and things.

1119
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,199
But boy, do we need to look out for the

1120
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,039
mental health of the performers a little bit more? Do

1121
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,239
we need to listen closer to them?

1122
00:56:14,559 --> 00:56:21,079
Speaker 1: Yes. Angela Pirelli is a consultant in this business and

1123
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,119
and she's been in radio for a long time. She's spearheaded.

1124
00:56:26,159 --> 00:56:29,239
For the first time. I went to Don Anthony and

1125
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,599
who runs the morning convention for radio, and she went

1126
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:34,320
to him and said, we need to do a mental

1127
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,719
health panel. Uh. And I have so much love for

1128
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,159
Angela because to your point, she was like, we need

1129
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:43,840
to at least start the conversation because like the NFL

1130
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:46,079
with you know, the whole CTE stuff, they did not

1131
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,000
want to know about that for the longest time, and

1132
00:56:48,039 --> 00:56:50,639
then eventually, you know, like, Okay, I guess we have

1133
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,320
to acknowledge that this was a thing. She felt the

1134
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,840
same way about mental health and the way that talent

1135
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,360
is treated by corporations, that it has an adverse effect

1136
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,079
on a person's life, and as well as the families

1137
00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:06,760
and the extended families of people that have to interact

1138
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,760
with somebody that end up having severe mental health issues

1139
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,559
because of their environment because mental health. You know, there's

1140
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:16,519
mental illness and there's mental unhealthiness, and it gets conflated

1141
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:20,840
a lot in our society, and so the idea that

1142
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,800
people confuse the two. Angela said, Look, environmental stuff is

1143
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,840
huge in radio because it's a highly stressful industry. Even

1144
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,440
if in fact everything's going right, if everything's going perfect,

1145
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,800
you still have a highly stressful job on the levels

1146
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,840
of air traffic controller. And my therapist did research and

1147
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,440
found out about that, and I was very happy that

1148
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,840
he did because he was a military PTSD specialist. And

1149
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,800
so with that level of stress, it's already a high

1150
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,039
level of stress that most human beings don't ever experience

1151
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:51,960
at their jobs. That's if it's good. When radio does

1152
00:57:52,079 --> 00:57:55,519
bad stuff, then the stress level is just beyond human

1153
00:57:55,559 --> 00:58:00,679
tolerate likes. It's abusive when the stress level is and

1154
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:03,559
beyond just the normal level that radio has. And she

1155
00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:06,920
wanted to bring attention to it. So, yes, she believed it,

1156
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:09,840
just like you do ability that Oh yeah, there needs

1157
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,199
to be better, better work in understanding how to treat

1158
00:58:14,239 --> 00:58:18,519
your employees better than co corporations do. The lie, the secrecy,

1159
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,320
the not caring, the building a bench not caring about

1160
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,039
people's families or whatever. That has a massively adverse effect.

1161
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,840
And another reason why I'm pissed at the nabra b

1162
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,920
or whatever, because it's a huge talking point. It's a

1163
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,719
real thing. What happens in this country today with all

1164
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,920
this horrific stuff is due to environmental bs done by

1165
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:44,159
unthinking corporations and also a horrible government, and it's affecting

1166
00:58:44,199 --> 00:58:46,280
human beings. This is not the way we should be.

1167
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,519
We shouldn't be living like this. Therapists will tell you

1168
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,239
we're not meant to live like this. This we're in

1169
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,760
fight or flight mode all the time, and we're not

1170
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,440
on the Serengeti. There's not a tiger trying to kill us.

1171
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:59,159
Yet we're at a state a lot of us where

1172
00:58:59,199 --> 00:59:01,079
we feel like there's tiger chasing us and we're going

1173
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:04,079
to lose our life. That's insane, since we're the most

1174
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:06,360
safe part of an American you could ever be. It's

1175
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,840
the safest time to be an American. The History Channel

1176
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,599
did research on that. Yet people like, yeah, and that

1177
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,480
is environmental and it's a travesty. And radio was definitely

1178
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,760
playing its part and contributing to that negative effect.

1179
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, you did do a mental not a mental

1180
00:59:22,719 --> 00:59:24,840
health show, but you did. What was the show that

1181
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,400
you started that did go national for all Odyssey? Was

1182
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,079
it about suicide or suicide provision?

1183
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: It's a show called I'm listening And I want to

1184
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,840
give credit? Where quits do Dave Richards, who is perhaps

1185
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,960
you know, one of the best program directors in the

1186
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,119
history of this fringing business and now he's the vice

1187
00:59:41,159 --> 00:59:44,599
president for Odyssey. Uh, he got he could? You know.

1188
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:50,320
I think he was really inspired by my story, which

1189
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,320
was the story of my daughter Sarah, who had an

1190
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,280
ex boyfriend died by suicide. And you know, he worked

1191
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,639
with me every day as we try to navigate this

1192
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:01,679
our family, like what are we going to do? Because

1193
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,719
a lot of times suicide guilt of survivor guilt is

1194
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,400
such a huge thing that then some of those survivors

1195
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,920
will die by suicide too. And I was so like,

1196
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,079
oh my god, And it wasn't nobody really knew what

1197
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:15,840
to tell you. Therapists didn't really have a lot of

1198
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,760
information to help you with a person that was a

1199
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,840
suicide basically a survivor of somebody who died by suicide.

1200
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:28,480
And so Dave was so inspired by this, and boy

1201
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:30,000
you talk about it. I mean that Day just was

1202
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,480
a brilliant orchestrator and a guy that deserves so much

1203
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:34,639
credit for my success. I wouldn't be anything if not

1204
01:00:34,719 --> 01:00:38,719
being able to have worked with him. And he's like, hey,

1205
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,960
bj I want to do this. I know how much

1206
01:00:41,039 --> 01:00:42,800
this means to you. Would you like to host the show.

1207
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,920
I want to make a national show. One day a year.

1208
01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:46,960
We will do a national show on all of our

1209
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,760
stations and we will just get celebrities, guests, whatever. And

1210
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,480
boy or boy did everybody want to partake in at

1211
01:00:53,559 --> 01:00:56,599
musicians and athletes. So many people wanted to speak out

1212
01:00:56,599 --> 01:00:59,920
about it because they all were touched by this all

1213
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:01,760
at some point in their life, whether it be family

1214
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,199
members or them selves dealing with, you know, trying to

1215
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:09,360
attempt suicide and great people like Michael Phelps. You know,

1216
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,280
you've got people on that level. You know, all sorts

1217
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,880
of musicians and Lizzo and I'm just starting thinking few

1218
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,840
that were a lot of rock people, you know, and

1219
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,840
it was wonderful. It's now a gigantic, huge national thing

1220
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,239
and Carson Dally is now the host, I guess being

1221
01:01:26,239 --> 01:01:29,199
replaced by Carson Bailey. That seems fair. I think he had.

1222
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:32,639
I think he's got a little bit more playing. So

1223
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:35,679
we get started. We started it in Seattle, and I'm

1224
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:37,159
proud of it, Billy. It was. It's one of the

1225
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:40,039
best things I have done in my career. It was

1226
01:01:40,199 --> 01:01:43,039
wonderful to start a show to start a conversation about

1227
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:46,519
mental health, especially for men. Men don't want to even

1228
01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:49,880
talk about it because you appear weak if you talk

1229
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:51,119
about mental health in any way.

1230
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I to address that. I do want to give

1231
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,719
back to the Carson Daily thing, because there's a connection

1232
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:03,400
to Carson Daily and then to Wei and you. I

1233
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,400
have had somebody come up to me recently who is

1234
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,800
a podcast listener, and I've talked about going to therapy

1235
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,800
and said I'm going and thank you for talking about it.

1236
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,480
But over the years I had talked about being molested

1237
01:02:16,519 --> 01:02:20,719
as a kid and the number of letters I would get,

1238
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,440
like handwritten letters sometimes even in the age of email

1239
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,840
and all, I would get these notes from people going, man,

1240
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:32,679
I was like, you know, just thought I was. It's

1241
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:35,079
one of these things where I really believe that we

1242
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:37,119
make a mistake, and this was something that we did

1243
01:02:37,199 --> 01:02:40,480
very well. I think we make a mistake that you know,

1244
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:43,920
if let's say a kid admits that to the parent

1245
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,320
hate so and so touched me and molested me whatever,

1246
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,960
and the reaction is so big that you feel like,

1247
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,360
as a kid, you can't process is that you've caused this.

1248
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,440
And I made my mom cry. My dad's all pissed

1249
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,519
off now and oh my god, this person, they're going

1250
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:59,079
to kill them and they what did I do? And

1251
01:02:59,159 --> 01:03:01,599
I remember when I told this story the other day,

1252
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,719
Sammy got left on the school bus and I'm producing

1253
01:03:04,719 --> 01:03:07,000
the show and I get a call heys, we's there.

1254
01:03:07,159 --> 01:03:10,119
I go, no, well, we have his son. He stayed

1255
01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:12,440
on the school bus, uh and didn't get off when

1256
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,239
he got to school and he was asleep. So I

1257
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,159
call you that he'll be fine, don't worry about it.

1258
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:18,679
And then all of a sudden, I go, well, I

1259
01:03:18,679 --> 01:03:22,719
think they're calling Dorian because he knew what the reaction

1260
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,920
would be. But if you did, don't over If we

1261
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,280
don't overreact to things, I think we can navigate, help

1262
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,199
navigate them, especially for young kids early on in life.

1263
01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:36,360
But the going back to the Carson Daily thing, I

1264
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,679
think that's a Howard Lapitas fine, and Howard was a

1265
01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:44,800
good friend. Oh yes, I'm pretty sure. The late Howard Lapedes, Yes,

1266
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,239
the late the late Howard.

1267
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:54,679
Speaker 1: Tom Green, yes, Jimmy Kimmel. Howard Lapedis was responsible so

1268
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,360
much and also one of his biggest mistakes is he

1269
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,360
would let me do a comedy club that Howard may

1270
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:02,800
but yeah, how it was really good at spotting talent.

1271
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 2: That's funny. Well, Beach, I loved talking to you. I

1272
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,599
would love to have you on every once in a

1273
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:11,639
while if you've got time.

1274
01:04:11,719 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to man especial. If you're gonna

1275
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,519
do any mental health, yes, I am. I'm on fire

1276
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:20,119
for that. I think it's a big, big subject and

1277
01:04:20,159 --> 01:04:21,639
we can you know, Bill, you and I can help

1278
01:04:21,639 --> 01:04:25,159
because men don't want to go or do it and

1279
01:04:25,239 --> 01:04:28,360
think it's weak. And it is to me one of

1280
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,639
the best things that humanity has ever done is the

1281
01:04:30,639 --> 01:04:33,199
behavioral sciences. I know there are bad therapists out there.

1282
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:34,840
I get it's like anything else, you're gonna have to

1283
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,679
keep looking. There are really bad therapists out there, But

1284
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:42,559
behavioral science is tremendous. It is this to me, it

1285
01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:45,760
just shows humanity at its best. What they've done with

1286
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,920
behavioral science and learning how we tick it's fantastic.

1287
01:04:49,079 --> 01:04:50,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

1288
01:04:50,199 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: I'll talk about anytime you want.

1289
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:53,559
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna stay in touch with them, Beach.

1290
01:04:53,679 --> 01:04:57,119
Maybe we launched it as its own podcast. I don't know.

1291
01:04:57,559 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: Hey, what what am I doing? I not the time?

1292
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 2: We could do it just like this. Yeah all right, Yeah,

1293
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,559
well I'll reach out to you and let's see if

1294
01:05:09,559 --> 01:05:09,760
we can.

1295
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: I love that, Billy, I'm all about it. I love that.

1296
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,280
Later this month. Actually, there's a guy in Seattle that's

1297
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:19,119
also podcasting about mental health, and uh, you know, I'm like, sure,

1298
01:05:19,119 --> 01:05:22,760
I'll come on your podcast all again, because usually men

1299
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,039
don't talk about it. So I'm a man that is

1300
01:05:25,079 --> 01:05:27,159
known in my area and they're like, you do you

1301
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:30,519
go there? Yeah, And it's so good for other men

1302
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:34,760
to hear that, because we suffer in silence, we really do.

1303
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,639
And uh, there's a guy named Terrence Real I'll just

1304
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:40,480
leave you with who talks about the psychological patriarchy, which

1305
01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:43,599
is different than the regular patriarchy. But basically, men have

1306
01:05:43,679 --> 01:05:46,400
been given such a raw deal that both men and

1307
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,559
women in society have contributed to. We are capable of

1308
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:52,480
so much more, but we have just been put in

1309
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:54,679
this box that says no, this is how you are.

1310
01:05:54,719 --> 01:05:56,840
You can show anger, you can show lust. Those are

1311
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,360
the only emotions you get to have as a man,

1312
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,760
and we're let to believe it's just, oh, it's wiring. Well,

1313
01:06:03,039 --> 01:06:04,880
I guess this is just how we're made. But in

1314
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,960
reality that is so not true. And I love people

1315
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,599
like Terrence Reeal and other authors that have come out

1316
01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:14,119
and said, hey, guess what, everything you know about emotions,

1317
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,079
you know they're completely wrong and mental health and so yeah, Philly,

1318
01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:18,840
let's do it.

1319
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,079
Speaker 2: Brother, all right, I love it. I love it. BJ Shay,

1320
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,000
thank you for coming on. I love I. It's such

1321
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,079
a fan, and it's such a fan over the years.

1322
01:06:28,079 --> 01:06:30,519
Speaker 1: So I write back at you, Billy, I really you know.

1323
01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:32,679
Especially I love hearing some of the stuff you did

1324
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,960
early in your career. I don't think I knew that.

1325
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,320
That's awesome. I love the late night stuff.

1326
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:38,119
Speaker 2: What are you?

1327
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: What do you do? What are you doing at this hour? N?

1328
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who's up? And why? All right, beach, I'll talk

1329
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,599
to you soon then, thanks brother. All right, there he

1330
01:06:45,639 --> 01:06:50,559
goes BJ Shay, and we will close it out. I

1331
01:06:50,599 --> 01:06:55,000
love what BJ gets all hot, that's my favorite, very thoughtful, right,

1332
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:57,920
it's not like anger just to be Angry's anger for

1333
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,920
a purpose. For brother weez. It's nice to be important,

1334
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,000
but it's more important to be nice. I'm Bill Murran.

1335
01:07:05,119 --> 01:07:06,199
We'll see you tomorrow.

1336
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,639
Speaker 1: I woke up in a hotel, didn't know what to do.

1337
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 2: I'm turning a TV Gonta do