WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You may think the main things to you, But I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just You're the big daddy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your father, big Yu, I'm your father, big guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Clean up to.

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<v Speaker 1>Tomato, tyrannical ranger.

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<v Speaker 2>You're so high you're candy even tom Are you trumping?

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<v Speaker 2>You're so high you candy even time? Are you trunking?

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<v Speaker 3>What is a tyrannical rainer?

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<v Speaker 4>What is a tyrannical rainer? What is a tyrannical rainer?

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<v Speaker 2>What is a tyrannical rainer?

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<v Speaker 5>You're so high, you candy?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you drunking?

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<v Speaker 4>Josh?

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<v Speaker 6>You came?

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<v Speaker 7>Are you drumming?

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<v Speaker 8>You may think of being mean to you, But I'm

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<v Speaker 8>just a debate daddy.

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<v Speaker 9>I'm your father figure, I'm your father.

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<v Speaker 1>Figures nical ranger.

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<v Speaker 2>Josh, you're kidd Are you drunk?

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<v Speaker 4>Josh your kid?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you drunking?

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<v Speaker 10>What is it alannical rainer?

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<v Speaker 11>What is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Anical rainer? What is it's irannical rainer? What is it

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<v Speaker 1>irannical rainer?

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<v Speaker 5>Yr you came?

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<v Speaker 12>Are you drunk?

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<v Speaker 9>You're so high you can't even talk?

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<v Speaker 13>Are you drunk now?

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<v Speaker 5>You're so high you can't even talk?

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<v Speaker 14>Are you drunken?

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<v Speaker 12>Now?

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<v Speaker 15>If you're sharing a hotel room with friends. You're also

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<v Speaker 15>sharing a bathroom, mad.

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<v Speaker 3>Still a monkey?

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<v Speaker 8>Climb up on a tree?

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<v Speaker 6>What you do up there? Why are you scared?

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<v Speaker 8>Why are you running in from every debate that you count?

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<v Speaker 8>Now you learn from Andrew, you do and from me?

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<v Speaker 9>Mad deal of monkey.

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<v Speaker 8>You like them female monkeys with them bananas between their trees.

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<v Speaker 8>Hang down up that dow brown, Maddil monkey. What you're

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<v Speaker 8>doing to me, Manduel monkey? What you're doing to me, madam?

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<v Speaker 16>What you're doing with me?

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<v Speaker 8>May What you're doing with me, Madla monkey? What you're

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<v Speaker 8>doing with me, Madila monkey.

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<v Speaker 6>What you're doing to me?

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<v Speaker 8>Make what you're doing with me, Madla monket?

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<v Speaker 10>What you're doing to.

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<v Speaker 9>Me, Madala monkey?

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<v Speaker 8>What you're doing to me, Madala monkey?

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<v Speaker 6>What you doing to me?

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<v Speaker 8>Madam? Mokay, what you're doing to me.

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<v Speaker 6>Monkey?

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<v Speaker 13>What you doing to me Mandela monkey? Mock mad mokey.

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<v Speaker 17>Oh it was amazing.

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<v Speaker 5>I love it the much.

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<v Speaker 17>Thank you, guys.

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<v Speaker 3>Shout out to Amid the Ruins fourteen fifty three, coming

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<v Speaker 3>back from a long hiatus with those bangers that he

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<v Speaker 3>made through AI.

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<v Speaker 18>It's that time again, late night debate. It's been a

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<v Speaker 18>long time since we had a late night debate. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 18>late night debates result in rabies infested feral people calling in.

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<v Speaker 18>Sometimes we get tyrannical rainers. Did you like the tyrannical

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<v Speaker 18>rainer song?

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<v Speaker 3>I vibed with it? What even is a tyrannical rainer? Exactly?

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<v Speaker 3>The heck goes up wine mom even talking about you're

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<v Speaker 3>tyrannical rainer and you're arrogant as beep. Anyway, Matt Dlamlca,

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<v Speaker 3>what's done?

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<v Speaker 12>Man?

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<v Speaker 3>I like that blues version of Matt Dolomocky. That was crazy.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, we're gonna open it up pretty soon, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's because today was an interesting series of events. I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't actually plan to do an open debate, but when

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<v Speaker 3>I saw this goober child, and I will call him

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<v Speaker 3>a goober child. He is the firstborn son of goober

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<v Speaker 3>where's he at? Tyson Hockley. Now, this is the dude

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<v Speaker 3>that called into Sam Shimun some months back and they

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<v Speaker 3>had a conversation where Sam explained why Islam was not

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<v Speaker 3>the most sensible religion. And it didn't last too long.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it was about a fifteen to twenty minute discussion.

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<v Speaker 3>Sam Shimun presented some of the more obvious issues that

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<v Speaker 3>are pretty well known in Islam, and Tyson said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what, I'm still leaning towards Islam. It makes

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<v Speaker 3>the most sense, although religion feels weird to me, and

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<v Speaker 3>then he says, follow me on my journey. Now, this

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<v Speaker 3>was a post intending to get audience and to get traction,

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<v Speaker 3>and if you go over to his page, it's all

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<v Speaker 3>sucking up to Sneako and the tates he wants to

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<v Speaker 3>be sneak O more than anything else. And he looks

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like a little bit of a potato head boy,

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<v Speaker 3>if you know what I mean. He looks like he's

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of a down potato syndrome.

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<v Speaker 6>Boy.

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<v Speaker 3>It's hard to tell because his face is a little

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<v Speaker 3>weird looking, but and he talks like he's got I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know, nasal issues, but maybe that's the potato syndrome

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<v Speaker 3>that he has. Anyway, he's a Canadian potatium. And he

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<v Speaker 3>thinks that Islam is just so cool because it's based

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<v Speaker 3>and it's like you got Bugatti and all this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of stuff that comes with Islam, with little to no

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<v Speaker 3>knowledge of actually what Islam is about. And he said,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have the knowledge set to debate you, although

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<v Speaker 3>he's ready to call me out When I posted a

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<v Speaker 3>video saying that Islam makes no sense? What was his reply?

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<v Speaker 3>As with every sort of weak willed, just effeminate man

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<v Speaker 3>ish person out there, he immediately goes for the virtue,

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<v Speaker 3>signaling that aren't you the guy who was being racist

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<v Speaker 3>to Muslim Lantern? Being racist? First of all, what does

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<v Speaker 3>that even mean to be racist to someone? And what

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<v Speaker 3>he's referring to is me impersonating Muslim Lantern's voice. So

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<v Speaker 3>these z gen Z Canadian children are so brainwashed they

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<v Speaker 3>think an impersonation is racism. And of course he was

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<v Speaker 3>so proud that the Muslims came to his rescue to

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<v Speaker 3>like and to share this for him that he said,

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<v Speaker 3>I got quote ratioed. However, all of the comments are

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<v Speaker 3>actually blasting making fun of him.

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<v Speaker 6>So even though he did.

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<v Speaker 3>Get Muslim ratio help here, every comment is just savaging

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<v Speaker 3>him all the way down about how silly he is.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is not a serious person obviously. If I

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<v Speaker 3>come over here to his page, it's all about how

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<v Speaker 3>he wants to be. Sneak O Sneko will follow me

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<v Speaker 3>if I get twenty thousand on X. Tristan Tate told

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<v Speaker 3>me soon that he might come on my podcast. So

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<v Speaker 3>I feel sorry for this. I mean, he looks like

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<v Speaker 3>he looks like any white woman in the WNBA. He's

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<v Speaker 3>got a face of any WNBA woman that's white, and

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<v Speaker 3>so he's got some kind of down potato syndrome going on.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel sorry for the boy. I mean literally, look,

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<v Speaker 3>he looks like a damn hobbit over here. He's a Canadian,

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<v Speaker 3>and why he was just to the moon because I

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned him today. In fact, he had to make a

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<v Speaker 3>video and guess what's in his video doubling down that

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<v Speaker 3>I'm racist and that I was mean to the absolute

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<v Speaker 3>snake who edited the videos because he did so bad

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<v Speaker 3>in the debate. In other words, the debate that's so

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<v Speaker 3>bad that you can't find it on Rumble and Sneako's

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<v Speaker 3>channel anymore. That debate that I was so terrible at,

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<v Speaker 3>which has gone from Rumble as far as I can tell,

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<v Speaker 3>that Muslim Lantern had to edit out of context. I

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<v Speaker 3>was so mean, and so all these people have is

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<v Speaker 3>nothing basically anyway, So this person is not a serious person.

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<v Speaker 3>He also says in the video that when he went

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<v Speaker 3>to a Muslim scholar, the Muslim scholar proved that Sam

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<v Speaker 3>Schamun was lying in his critiques of Islam. M sure, yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 3>who believes that? So potato Canadian boy, I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>we'll come to debate. I've asked it. I asked them

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<v Speaker 3>multiple times to come tonight to defend Islam. And the

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<v Speaker 3>weirdos in his chat were their own special kind of

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<v Speaker 3>slow boy. In fact, one of them was a perennialist hermeticist,

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<v Speaker 3>so not Muslim and not Christian, but was cheering on

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<v Speaker 3>and championing the victory of Islam over the West. You

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<v Speaker 3>can't make this up. These people are so stupid or

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<v Speaker 3>their bots or FEDS or something that they're cheering on

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<v Speaker 3>the destruction of their own civilization with this stupid cult

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<v Speaker 3>that is literally only like you have to be under

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred IQ to fall for Islam being charitable. It's

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<v Speaker 3>so dumb. And to remind you of how dumb it is,

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<v Speaker 3>I thought this was a good brief video for example,

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<v Speaker 3>that David Wood. David would respied, replied to Hamza, who

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<v Speaker 3>himself is another level of goober. And I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>just want you to listen to some of this video.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't have to do all of it. We're just

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<v Speaker 3>we're just gonna be a few minutes of it to

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<v Speaker 3>see the obvious nonsense when it comes to something obvious

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<v Speaker 3>like the Islamic dilemma and the basic points that are

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<v Speaker 3>reiterated for the thousand time. Remember we did a whole

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<v Speaker 3>six hour livestream where we did an experiment to see

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<v Speaker 3>if any of the Muslim callers could restate or understand

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<v Speaker 3>the hypothetical situation. If you remember, none of them could

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<v Speaker 3>for six hours straight of Muslim callers, they were incapable

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<v Speaker 3>of understanding a hypothetical. And so this religion then kind

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<v Speaker 3>of like Mormonism for white people. It's like Mormonism is

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<v Speaker 3>like prairie Islam, prairie muffin Islam. Like you have to

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<v Speaker 3>be a special kind of stupid to believe and to

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<v Speaker 3>not understand the Islamic dilemma and how obvious and basic

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<v Speaker 3>it is.

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<v Speaker 6>And so what do they do?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, as you'll see here, Hamza for example, has a

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<v Speaker 3>creative way to answer it, but the answer is actually

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<v Speaker 3>dumber than the other attempts.

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<v Speaker 19>The shorts that's supposed to refute the Islamic dilemma. Let's

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<v Speaker 19>watch Hamsa completely contradict his own God, his own prophet

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<v Speaker 19>and his own books. Hamsa from Hamsa's den is the

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<v Speaker 19>simone Biles of mental gymnastics. Let's take a look at

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<v Speaker 19>his floor root Sine on the Islamic dilemma. The Islamic

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<v Speaker 19>dilemma is an argument that can take many forms, but

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<v Speaker 19>in its most basic form, it goes something like this.

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<v Speaker 19>The Karan affirms the inspiration, preserve, and authority of the

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<v Speaker 19>Jewish and Christian scriptures, but the Quran contradicts the Jewish

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<v Speaker 19>and Christian scriptures on fundamental doctrines.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, there are only two possibilities here.

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<v Speaker 19>Either Jews and Christians have the inspired, preserved authoritative word of.

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<v Speaker 3>God, or we don't. It's one or the other.

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<v Speaker 19>On one horn of the dilemma, if we have the inspired,

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<v Speaker 19>preserved authoritative word of God, Islam is false because Islam

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<v Speaker 19>contradicts what we have. On the other horn of the dilemma,

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<v Speaker 19>if we don't have the inspired, preserved, authoritative word of God,

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<v Speaker 19>Islam is false because Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and

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<v Speaker 19>authority of what we have. So if we have the

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<v Speaker 19>reliable and authoritative word of God, Islam is false. If

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<v Speaker 19>we don't have the reliable and authoritative word of God,

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<v Speaker 19>Islam is false. Either way, Islam is false. Therefore Islam

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<v Speaker 19>is false. How do da organdists respond to this air

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<v Speaker 19>type argument the same way they respond to every argument

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<v Speaker 19>smoke and mirrors. Hamzah posted a short that's supposed to

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<v Speaker 19>refute the Islamic dilemma. Let's watch Hamza completely contradict his

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<v Speaker 19>own God, his own prophet, and his own books.

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<v Speaker 14>My man here.

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<v Speaker 20>Yeah, he's claim that upon him I tested the veracity

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<v Speaker 20>and the truthfulness of the ingeal cut.

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<v Speaker 19>I also claim that Muhammad affirmed the jail. In jail

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<v Speaker 19>is the Arabic word for gospel. It's a transliteration of

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<v Speaker 19>the Greek word yuangelian, meaning gospel. Muhammad affirmed the jail,

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<v Speaker 19>so did Allah.

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<v Speaker 20>Upon him, I tested the veracity and the truthfulness of

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<v Speaker 20>the ingeal cut, which he did, Yeah, he did.

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<v Speaker 19>Mohammad did attest the veracity and the truthfulness of the Angel,

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<v Speaker 19>and so did Allah. We agree, Christians and Muslims agree

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<v Speaker 19>on this, But our Dawa friends know all too well

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<v Speaker 19>that the angel we have contradicts the Koran on Jesus, death, resurrection,

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<v Speaker 19>and divine nature. So they're going to have to claim

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<v Speaker 19>that the Angel is something we don't have.

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<v Speaker 14>This is then.

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<v Speaker 6>Testament.

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<v Speaker 3>What does the meaning of a jail?

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<v Speaker 6>What's the jail?

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<v Speaker 12>Good?

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<v Speaker 6>Question?

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<v Speaker 19>If it's not the Gospel that Christians have, because what

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<v Speaker 19>we have contradicts the Koran, what is it?

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<v Speaker 21>What is the Islamic concept of So that's what I'm

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<v Speaker 21>asking you.

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<v Speaker 6>You're the mussulim.

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<v Speaker 3>You tell me what's Islamic concept?

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<v Speaker 5>What is the book?

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<v Speaker 6>I explain?

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<v Speaker 9>I'm going to explain.

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<v Speaker 21>So the Quuran makes it clear the Engel is a

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<v Speaker 21>book that was given to Jesus from God.

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<v Speaker 6>What does the Quran make clear?

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<v Speaker 21>So the Quan makes in Gel is a book that

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<v Speaker 21>was given to Jesus.

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<v Speaker 3>Now keep in mind we saw a similar type of

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<v Speaker 3>trek that doctor Khalil took in his debate with sam Shimoon,

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<v Speaker 3>where doctor Khalil says something like, oh, well, you think

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<v Speaker 3>Gospel is the New Testament of the message of Christ

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<v Speaker 3>from the New Testiment the Apostles? No, No, in Ingeel

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<v Speaker 3>is this unknown, lost, forgotten thing that the Quran is

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<v Speaker 3>restoring or in some way preserving or bringing back. Now

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<v Speaker 3>keep that in mind, because this is actually even dumber

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<v Speaker 3>than the other answer from God?

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<v Speaker 19>What's the engel?

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<v Speaker 12>In Gel?

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<v Speaker 21>Is a book that was given to Jesus from God.

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<v Speaker 21>One more time, in gel is a book that was

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<v Speaker 21>given to Jesus from God.

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<v Speaker 19>The Engel is a book that was given to Jesus

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<v Speaker 19>from God.

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<v Speaker 3>Now remember this doesn't exist. No one has this except

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<v Speaker 3>some Muslims say, oh, there was a group of Christians,

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<v Speaker 3>some sect at Medina who had this lost in jeal

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<v Speaker 3>of Jesus. Of course, there's no evidence for this. It's

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<v Speaker 3>just claims that they make up and things that they assert,

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<v Speaker 3>And of course all of the Christians prior to this

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<v Speaker 3>are not using that. Now otherword was we have the

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<v Speaker 3>New Testament attacks that are being used from the time

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<v Speaker 3>of the post Apostolic fathers all the way up through

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<v Speaker 3>in Nicea, all the way up to the seventh century.

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<v Speaker 3>That's contemporary with these events. So that's the definition that

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<v Speaker 3>obviously is not what they're talking about.

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<v Speaker 19>They're going with and this idea is based on five

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<v Speaker 19>verse forty six of the Quran, which we'll read in

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<v Speaker 19>a few moments. But let's allow our Dawa friends to

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<v Speaker 19>finish their point.

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<v Speaker 6>Are you a Christian?

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<v Speaker 9>Yes?

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<v Speaker 21>Do you believe Jesus received a book from God a

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<v Speaker 21>lah called the Ingael?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 9>We agree with you.

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<v Speaker 3>What you don't believe in the Angel.

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<v Speaker 19>There you have it, folks. Muhammad and the Koran affirm

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<v Speaker 19>the angel. But the Angel isn't what Christians have in

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<v Speaker 19>the New Testament. Instead, it's a book given to Jesus

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<v Speaker 19>from God. And we don't have a book given to

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<v Speaker 19>Jesus from God. Hence we don't have the Angel.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't have it.

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<v Speaker 19>Christians have never had a book that was given to

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<v Speaker 19>Jesus from God, so we've never had the Angel. Poor Christians,

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<v Speaker 19>Dawa fans watch Hamsa's clip and say.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll hangdle it all and they don't even they're not

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<v Speaker 3>even realizing how stupid this is, given with what the

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<v Speaker 3>other statements in the Quran say about the torajeal, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like, no, you understand what you've already done here.

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<v Speaker 19>Such a powerful response.

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<v Speaker 6>The Christians have been humiliated.

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<v Speaker 19>But there's a problem with Hamsu's claim that Christians don't

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<v Speaker 19>have the Angel. Allah and Mohammed say very clearly that

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<v Speaker 19>we do have the Angel. Consider a few passages. Sir

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<v Speaker 19>A seven one fifty seven of the Qur'an refers to

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<v Speaker 19>those who follow the messenger. Muslims believe the Messenger here

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<v Speaker 19>is Mohammed. Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet,

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<v Speaker 19>whom they find inscribed in the Torah and the Gospel

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<v Speaker 19>that is with them. The Gospel here in Arabic is

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<v Speaker 19>in Ingeeal. The Koran says that Jews and Christians find

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<v Speaker 19>Mohammad inscribed in the Torah and the Gospel that are

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<v Speaker 19>with us.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, how is this possible? If this mystical lost text

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<v Speaker 3>that was given to Jesus, which is all preposterous, was

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<v Speaker 3>no longer accent and no longer had Christians and Jews

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<v Speaker 3>don't have it. This is super obvious and super dumb.

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<v Speaker 6>What's the angel? According to our Dawa friends in.

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<v Speaker 21>Jael is a book that was given to Jesus from God.

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<v Speaker 19>So if the angel is a book given to Jesus

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<v Speaker 19>from God, and the Koran says that we find Mohammed

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<v Speaker 19>inscribed in the Engael, that's with us. The Koran is

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<v Speaker 19>claiming that we have a book that was given to

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<v Speaker 19>Jesus from God. Right, Hamza and his friend say, we

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<v Speaker 19>don't have the Engael. Allah says we do, and Hamsa's

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<v Speaker 19>fans will believe him even when he contradicts a law

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<v Speaker 19>isn't that amazing. Now we'll take a closer look at

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<v Speaker 19>the verse that says the Angel is a book given

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<v Speaker 19>to Jesus. But we'll also read the verse that comes

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<v Speaker 19>right after it, sir A fiv Verses forty six and

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<v Speaker 19>forty seven. And in their footsteps, we sent Jesus, son

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<v Speaker 19>of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him,

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<v Speaker 19>and we gave him the Gospel, wherein is a guidance

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<v Speaker 19>and a light confirming the Torah that had come before him.

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<v Speaker 19>As an a guidance and an exhortation to the reverend.

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<v Speaker 19>Our Dawa friends insist that this means the Engel is

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<v Speaker 19>a book given to Jesus from God.

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<v Speaker 3>But here's the next verse.

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<v Speaker 19>Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God

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<v Speaker 19>has sent down therein whosoever judges not by that which

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<v Speaker 19>God has sent down, it is they who are iniquitous.

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<v Speaker 3>So you see the obvious issue here. Hopefully, if you

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<v Speaker 3>have two brain cells that aren't completely destroyed by the

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<v Speaker 3>nonsense that's out there, how could we judge what is

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<v Speaker 3>with us if we don't have the Angel with us.

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<v Speaker 3>You see, in other words, the passage, as we've cited

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<v Speaker 3>many times, tells those who are hearing the new message

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<v Speaker 3>from Mohammed to judge Muhammad's message by what came before,

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<v Speaker 3>and even mentions the fact that the Gospel is in

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<v Speaker 3>continuity with the Torah that came before it. So what's

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<v Speaker 3>the explanation for this Islam is a copy paste religion

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<v Speaker 3>which didn't understand the basic theology that came before in

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<v Speaker 3>either Jewish revelation in the Torah or in Christian revelation

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<v Speaker 3>in the Gospels and in theology. That's why the Bible

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<v Speaker 3>has both the Old Testament and the New Testament in it,

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<v Speaker 3>you see. But they don't understand that, and so they

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<v Speaker 3>cribbed together this weird religion that is a fundamental contradiction

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<v Speaker 3>that tells you to judge on the base of what

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<v Speaker 3>came before. And then when you find the obvious contradictions

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<v Speaker 3>with the new revelation of Muhammad with what came before,

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<v Speaker 3>you're supposed to toss out anything that contradicts the Quran.

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<v Speaker 3>But that principle contradicts judging by what came before the

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<v Speaker 3>New revelation and the old revelation, that is the Bible.

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<v Speaker 3>Deuteronmy thirteen Uterami eighteen Galatians one those passages all tell

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<v Speaker 3>the believers to judge any new revelation based on what

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<v Speaker 3>came before anyway, So this is a complete reputation of Islam.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll go ahead and open it up. Shown. I'm mute, sorry, mat, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>what's up?

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<v Speaker 5>Man?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey?

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<v Speaker 22>I listened to a lot of the YouTube stuff that

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<v Speaker 22>you have.

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<v Speaker 3>I haven't.

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<v Speaker 22>I haven't signed up for your classes or anything. And

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<v Speaker 22>Irvin Jensen Jensen is that right?

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<v Speaker 3>Who is that? I don't know who that is?

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<v Speaker 22>H Logo Logos Media. He has this thought thought wire

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<v Speaker 22>thing that's pretty cool. If you've never heard of him,

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<v Speaker 22>you really need to check that guy out.

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<v Speaker 6>Urban Jensen.

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<v Speaker 22>I thought people would know. Uh, but I do have

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<v Speaker 22>a crit cool question for you, and this is kind

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<v Speaker 22>of kind of related. I would really hope that.

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<v Speaker 3>And I know there's a lot of.

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<v Speaker 22>Bullshit going on between this, but I would really hope

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<v Speaker 22>that you would have a conversation.

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<v Speaker 6>You don't have to have a debate, but a conversation.

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<v Speaker 22>With Haws from the infrared crew, because he does have

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<v Speaker 22>some good things to say.

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<v Speaker 3>No, why would I waste my time with that? That's

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<v Speaker 3>completely stupid?

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<v Speaker 10>All right, all right, why do I need?

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<v Speaker 3>What do you what's the other person.

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<v Speaker 22>Irving Jensen, I would assume that you would know him.

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<v Speaker 6>He wrote a book on like mushrooms or something or another.

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<v Speaker 3>Why would I know a person talking about mushrooms.

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<v Speaker 22>Because everything you say actually overlaps with what this guy

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<v Speaker 22>is saying.

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<v Speaker 6>He's basically says that possible. Well, he's I would think

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<v Speaker 6>you guys would be there.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, I'm just I'm trying real hard not to

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<v Speaker 3>be mean man.

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00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:56.839
<v Speaker 6>So that's all good. That's all good.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm goodbye. They awful us. Yeah, I'm you.

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<v Speaker 6>Hey, Jay, Hi, do you hear me?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 6>I agree to talk to me.

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<v Speaker 12>I just want to say it, like time runs fast.

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<v Speaker 12>I believe it was like five years ago. I was

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<v Speaker 12>in your discord. Louis hooked me up at you, and

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<v Speaker 12>I like, I think I prepared you for like what's

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00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.640
<v Speaker 12>it Rushet's to date, I gave like a lectures on

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<v Speaker 12>heat and oh.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm sorry, I do remember that. Yeah, it's been

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<v Speaker 3>several years.

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<v Speaker 12>Yeah, I'm fine, still move Yeah, I just want to

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<v Speaker 12>continue on where you started with like the Quran, because

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<v Speaker 12>what when when when I gave the lectures to you.

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<v Speaker 6>It's funny.

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<v Speaker 12>One of the things I said to you was start

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<v Speaker 12>Like Louis wanted me to like make his whole like

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<v Speaker 12>higher critical attack on the Quran, but I didn't want

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<v Speaker 12>to do it, and I said in my lecture, like,

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<v Speaker 12>as Christians, we should always attack the Qur'an from the

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<v Speaker 12>presupposition that we just we take it as it is

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<v Speaker 12>and for the sake of argument, we accept. Okay, let's

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00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.519
<v Speaker 12>say for the sake of argument that Muhammad.

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<v Speaker 10>Really say this.

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<v Speaker 6>Let's say that every headief is true.

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<v Speaker 12>Let's not go into the whole higher criticism because that

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<v Speaker 12>opens up a.

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<v Speaker 6>Can of worms.

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<v Speaker 3>It's I agree, Yeah, then they can say it.

432
00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:31.640
<v Speaker 12>Back to us. But this is a trap that Muslims

433
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:36.680
<v Speaker 12>always go into. They love to cite higher criticism against

434
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:40.279
<v Speaker 12>the Bible to us. And as you know, I'm an

435
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:45.400
<v Speaker 12>ex Muslim. When I was a Muslim reading higher critical

436
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.799
<v Speaker 12>like critique of the New Testament, well it was like

437
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:55.440
<v Speaker 12>fifty sixty percent of my you know, preparation for attacking Christianity.

438
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:03.680
<v Speaker 12>And like, you know how like I believe it was

439
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 12>like what it Sam Chebuno calls ironic, calls part erman

440
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.319
<v Speaker 12>shaikh part erhman because of how Muslim cite.

441
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:13.680
<v Speaker 6>And like.

442
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.519
<v Speaker 12>You have refewed this I believe it was with like

443
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.640
<v Speaker 12>Muslim lamptern, and you do that because you're a philosopher.

444
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.480
<v Speaker 12>You do the very strong philosophical argument is that just

445
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:29.480
<v Speaker 12>like say, okay, you accept high criticism with our scripture,

446
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.640
<v Speaker 12>but you don't want to accept higher criticism of your scripture.

447
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 12>You don't want to go you don't want to go

448
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.960
<v Speaker 12>into capril, say at Reynolds. But this is an abstract

449
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.480
<v Speaker 12>argument that the average Muslim just doesn't it's just stupid

450
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 12>to understand this. He will just be like, well, our

451
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.279
<v Speaker 12>scripture is true and those false, So we can do that.

452
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:55.720
<v Speaker 12>That's why it's very important to really go into the

453
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.880
<v Speaker 12>finer points and the PRIs of positions and show just

454
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:03.519
<v Speaker 12>how it's not only inconsistent, their arguments against the Bible

455
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 12>can actually constitute kuffer like disbelief from a Muslim perspective worldview.

456
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, that's a great point. Could you give give

457
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:14.839
<v Speaker 3>an example.

458
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 12>That, yeah, yeah, because like I believe this was Ijos.

459
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.240
<v Speaker 12>I don't want to like die on his help, but

460
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.359
<v Speaker 12>I believe it was Ajos. It was a Muslim apologist

461
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.359
<v Speaker 12>to make this argument from its own mouth that the

462
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 12>Gospels could not have been written by the apostles because

463
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:35.559
<v Speaker 12>they predict the destruction of the temple. Therefore they must

464
00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:38.039
<v Speaker 12>have been written after year fifty, after the destruction of

465
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:38.480
<v Speaker 12>the temple.

466
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course he's not going to apply that to

467
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:41.079
<v Speaker 3>the Quran.

468
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Right.

469
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.160
<v Speaker 12>No, again, this is a atheist naturalist argument that they

470
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:52.279
<v Speaker 12>just like earlifts from port Erma, and they don't understand.

471
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.599
<v Speaker 12>You're a Muslim, You're supposed to believe in prophecy. You

472
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.319
<v Speaker 12>have to believe in the possibility of prophecy. If you

473
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.880
<v Speaker 12>deny the possibility that make prophecies and you're a caffeine,

474
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:05.279
<v Speaker 12>you're a disbeliever.

475
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:08.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. That's a great point.

476
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:12.680
<v Speaker 12>And the other augment is that this is I think

477
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:17.440
<v Speaker 12>more popular. I heard Jake make dis arguments. I heard

478
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:18.519
<v Speaker 12>so many well on that.

479
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:20.079
<v Speaker 3>Point, though, I just want to stress before you go

480
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 3>into this other point that Jake makes, like this is

481
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 3>why it helps to understand the basic principles of logic

482
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.880
<v Speaker 3>and debate, because everybody who knows those things would know

483
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.519
<v Speaker 3>you can't use a double standard, or you can't you know,

484
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 3>change the goalpost and say well, I'm going to use

485
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:42.359
<v Speaker 3>this principle to critique your position, but you can't use

486
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 3>that for my position and why Well, because my position

487
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.440
<v Speaker 3>is not subject to that critique. Well that's just arbitrary.

488
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:53.599
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, yeah, exactly. But the thing is in Muslims again,

489
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 12>Muslims don't understand like universal, general abstract argument. You really

490
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:01.200
<v Speaker 12>have to go in to greatly and show it to

491
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:05.400
<v Speaker 12>them because they really operate on the level. The other

492
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:09.920
<v Speaker 12>argument is that, well, the apostle John could not have

493
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:13.640
<v Speaker 12>written the Gospel of John. And this again, this is

494
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:15.799
<v Speaker 12>a critical naturalist school.

495
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:17.160
<v Speaker 15>Argan, what is the argument?

496
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.279
<v Speaker 6>You know it? Why did they say that John written?

497
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.000
<v Speaker 10>Because of John?

498
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:20.960
<v Speaker 12>Beside the prophecy?

499
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean there's different ones. Sometimes they argue that because

500
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 3>it's so theologically advanced and had to come from some

501
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:31.880
<v Speaker 3>late era something like that the divinity of Christ, and

502
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:33.920
<v Speaker 3>nobody at that time yet believe in the divinity of Christ,

503
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.359
<v Speaker 3>so it must have come from a later era.

504
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 12>Yeah. Again, it contained sophisticated like philosophical and it's written

505
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:44.720
<v Speaker 12>in Greek, right, It's written in Greek. And we are

506
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 12>told that the apostles, like John Peter, they were just

507
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:55.480
<v Speaker 12>like Galilean fisherman. They were illiterates, right, m hm. Well,

508
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:57.559
<v Speaker 12>as a Muslim, you're supposed to believe in this thing

509
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 12>called divine inspiration.

510
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.279
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, good point, right, And the Qur'an.

511
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 12>Itself says, well, Muhammad's enemies they accuse him of forging

512
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.640
<v Speaker 12>the Qur'an because Muhammad is an illiterate.

513
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:14.039
<v Speaker 3>And he could not have come up with all right, right, right,

514
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.799
<v Speaker 3>he's even called and he called the illiterate one, right, yeah, exactly.

515
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:20.960
<v Speaker 12>And when it comes to Koran, Muslims use this as

516
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.559
<v Speaker 12>a proof by an.

517
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.400
<v Speaker 6>Inspiration, like this proof a proof that John.

518
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.519
<v Speaker 12>When it comes to Christians, it's just taken a naturalist

519
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.279
<v Speaker 12>atheist argument like no, well John was a was an illiterate,

520
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:34.960
<v Speaker 12>it didn't be great.

521
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:37.319
<v Speaker 3>So he could not have written the Gospel exactly.

522
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 12>And this is like this is a flagrant, very basic

523
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:48.440
<v Speaker 12>double standard that like again, as a Muslim, when when

524
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:51.039
<v Speaker 12>I understood this, when when this like inside came to me,

525
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.519
<v Speaker 12>this was probably the point where I, like I became

526
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.440
<v Speaker 12>a Christian, you know.

527
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:56.799
<v Speaker 6>What I mean?

528
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:02.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh, so you recognize this double standard approach and that

529
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.000
<v Speaker 3>was something that really clicked with you.

530
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.079
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, it really it blew my mind.

531
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:08.400
<v Speaker 17>Huh.

532
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.400
<v Speaker 3>That's good to know. Yeah, I mean I didn't I

533
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:14.920
<v Speaker 3>didn't know that that was one of the things that

534
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.119
<v Speaker 3>was really clicking for you. But it's good to know that. Yeah.

535
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:19.039
<v Speaker 10>And again, like.

536
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.880
<v Speaker 12>Every debate, like after I became a Christian author of

537
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.799
<v Speaker 12>Christian I've had every day I debate with Christians, every Muslims,

538
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 12>and every single debate, they cite whatever part Ermans, whatever

539
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.400
<v Speaker 12>dating of the Gospels and what he says like, oh no,

540
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:42.920
<v Speaker 12>they're not written by apostles, they're written late. And every

541
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 12>time when you go into it, okay, why does he

542
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.680
<v Speaker 12>date them late? Why does he say the apostles could

543
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.160
<v Speaker 12>never written them? When you attack these presuppositions, Muslims just

544
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:57.599
<v Speaker 12>like break down like oh yeah, yeah, well you're right. Really,

545
00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.359
<v Speaker 12>there's no they don't have any response to that.

546
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.279
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, Hey, thank you to all. Thus I appreciate those comments,

547
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.119
<v Speaker 3>and you have great points to keep in mind, like

548
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:09.039
<v Speaker 3>why would we accept this double standard? Uh, in regard

549
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:14.159
<v Speaker 3>to your position, but we're not allowed to have that, uh,

550
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:18.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, critique for the Qur'an right you can use

551
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.719
<v Speaker 3>that critique of us. Yeah, okay, did your thumbing down?

552
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 3>I see you. I'm mute. What's up, c RG, I'm you.

553
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:26.719
<v Speaker 5>What's going on?

554
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:27.119
<v Speaker 6>Man?

555
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.199
<v Speaker 16>But I just want to say, uh, I love to

556
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.079
<v Speaker 16>have a little religious debate. But the DUDEO was just

557
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.360
<v Speaker 16>up here. I want to say a lot of that

558
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 16>was false. You feel me as far as like Muslims,

559
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 16>that's just that's a that's a bold claim with no

560
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:47.599
<v Speaker 16>proof that Muslims just fall off and say that You're right.

561
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.079
<v Speaker 3>No, they do that all that's not false. They do

562
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.679
<v Speaker 3>it all the time. They're talking about not all the time. Right, Yeah,

563
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.599
<v Speaker 3>I've been in hundreds of Muslim debates. What are you

564
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:56.159
<v Speaker 3>talking about?

565
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 6>Okay?

566
00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:59.960
<v Speaker 5>The question is are those Muslims and knowledge?

567
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.880
<v Speaker 3>Because all the top Muslims except for one.

568
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.840
<v Speaker 5>Okay, I just take your word for it. That's not

569
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.400
<v Speaker 5>my point.

570
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:08.679
<v Speaker 6>Right.

571
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:11.360
<v Speaker 16>When I came up, though, I mean before I came up,

572
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.880
<v Speaker 16>when I came into the space, I saw I was

573
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:15.079
<v Speaker 16>listening to the recorder.

574
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 5>I guess that was you, right.

575
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:18.639
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what you're talking about.

576
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 6>The music.

577
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.159
<v Speaker 5>It was a recording play. It was something playing the music.

578
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 5>It was no, no, no, no, it wasn't the music.

579
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.800
<v Speaker 3>It was oh the clip I played about? Yeah, yeah, right,

580
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 3>So it was.

581
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 6>Talking about the inn jail.

582
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:32.760
<v Speaker 16>A lot of you know, a lot of Christians, a

583
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:33.760
<v Speaker 16>lot of people like to talk.

584
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 6>About the n jail.

585
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.480
<v Speaker 16>That verse in particular that was being talked about.

586
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:43.199
<v Speaker 5>I think that was chapter five. What uh, verse forty seven.

587
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 16>That verse is talking is telling the people of the

588
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.599
<v Speaker 16>book right to judge the book. That's how they getting

589
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.920
<v Speaker 16>judged by that book from the people of that time.

590
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:58.000
<v Speaker 16>Was that's the in jail, the gospel that was around

591
00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:58.679
<v Speaker 16>that time.

592
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:00.960
<v Speaker 6>They are getting judged by that.

593
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:04.400
<v Speaker 5>They're not getting judged by the Qur'an.

594
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.360
<v Speaker 3>No, it's saying that the people that have prior revelation

595
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.159
<v Speaker 3>can judge the new revelation and see that the new

596
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.719
<v Speaker 3>revelation of the of Muhammad is in continuity with the

597
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 3>old revelation. That's the claim.

598
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:21.719
<v Speaker 16>That's not but that's not what Muslim scholar is saying

599
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:22.840
<v Speaker 16>that that's what that means.

600
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.039
<v Speaker 3>What does forty eight say a confirmation of the previous

601
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.920
<v Speaker 3>script about that verse though I'm talking about the next

602
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:36.280
<v Speaker 3>verse five? Forty eight says that it's a confirmation of

603
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:38.280
<v Speaker 3>the previous scripture.

604
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:40.039
<v Speaker 5>That what that verse means, right is.

605
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:44.519
<v Speaker 6>My bad.

606
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:47.760
<v Speaker 16>I got a phone call back in that time. Muhammad

607
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 16>went to the Jews.

608
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Are you there? We lost you? If you want to

609
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 3>come back talk, I'm you.

610
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.599
<v Speaker 6>Can you hear me? Okay?

611
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:33.039
<v Speaker 7>So I just heard your debate or a portion of

612
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:36.519
<v Speaker 7>back and forth with CRG, We've got a question for you.

613
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 6>In order to get the.

614
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.480
<v Speaker 7>Deep meaning of a text, not just the surface meaning,

615
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.119
<v Speaker 7>do you need to understand.

616
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.159
<v Speaker 6>The original language?

617
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.719
<v Speaker 7>In other words, do you speak or understand Greek, Aramaic,

618
00:37:58.639 --> 00:37:59.920
<v Speaker 7>Hebrew or Arabic.

619
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:04.519
<v Speaker 3>Understanding the languages can be a great tool, but it

620
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.000
<v Speaker 3>does not guarantee either the understanding of a quote deeper meaning,

621
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.320
<v Speaker 3>nor does it guarantee that your theology is correct. It's

622
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:11.599
<v Speaker 3>just a tool in the tool set.

623
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.400
<v Speaker 6>Okay, So do you believe in that standard?

624
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:18.119
<v Speaker 3>What standard.

625
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.760
<v Speaker 7>We just said where you just said that the language

626
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.079
<v Speaker 7>is a tool that you could understand it.

627
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:27.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a helpful tool. But plenty of people with

628
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 3>linguistic degrees, as you would admit, have heretical and ridiculous theology.

629
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:33.599
<v Speaker 6>Right.

630
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.719
<v Speaker 7>So, if you use language to communicate your ideas, to

631
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:42.920
<v Speaker 7>either cancel out a specific theology or call it a

632
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.519
<v Speaker 7>coffee paste from another theology, you ought to know the

633
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.000
<v Speaker 7>source and its source language and a target and it's time.

634
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.159
<v Speaker 3>No, I don't have to know the original languages to

635
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 3>know that, because the languages can adequately translate the ideas well.

636
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.960
<v Speaker 6>You just said that you would lose some contact.

637
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:03.840
<v Speaker 3>I never said. I didn't say that. I said it's

638
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:05.199
<v Speaker 3>a tool, that's all I said.

639
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:08.000
<v Speaker 6>Okay, all right, so it's a tool. But do you

640
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:11.239
<v Speaker 6>believe that when you look at that tool and utilize

641
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.159
<v Speaker 6>it to.

642
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:16.840
<v Speaker 7>Understand something, will there be a loss of understanding in

643
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Speaker 7>any shape or form.

644
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:22.920
<v Speaker 3>It's it's a case by case basis with certain texts.

645
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.639
<v Speaker 3>To stop interrupting me, let me finish. No, I didn't

646
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:27.840
<v Speaker 3>say yes. I said it's more nuanced than the either

647
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.199
<v Speaker 3>or that you're trying to put upon me. It's a both,

648
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.519
<v Speaker 3>and it really depends on the specifics of the situation.

649
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 3>But no, we do not have the belief that you

650
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 3>only truly know the religion if you speak or know Arabic,

651
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:41.039
<v Speaker 3>for example. And by the way, that would mean that

652
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:43.719
<v Speaker 3>your position isn't for all people. And it would also

653
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.360
<v Speaker 3>mean that the Koran is false when it says that

654
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.039
<v Speaker 3>all things in the churn are actually clear.

655
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:50.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but it is clear, so that's the thing.

656
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:53.119
<v Speaker 3>So it's clearer than So why are you got different

657
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:55.760
<v Speaker 3>schools disagreeing over anthropomorphism if it's all clear?

658
00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:57.960
<v Speaker 6>Right, But let me just go back to it.

659
00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:59.400
<v Speaker 3>So you're not going to answer that, right, You're not

660
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:01.119
<v Speaker 3>going to answer that, Oh I will.

661
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:02.519
<v Speaker 6>There's lots of broader context.

662
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:05.199
<v Speaker 3>Oh wait, so now you're allowed to have a broader context.

663
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.519
<v Speaker 3>But when you ask me an oversimplified question about languages,

664
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:09.199
<v Speaker 3>I can't have that.

665
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.440
<v Speaker 7>Oh yeah, you are entitled to whatever you want to

666
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.840
<v Speaker 7>hear the host of this this space. But with all

667
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.039
<v Speaker 7>due respect, I asked you whether a loss of meaning

668
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:19.800
<v Speaker 7>could result.

669
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.960
<v Speaker 3>I answered you that it's possible in some cases, but

670
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:27.519
<v Speaker 3>not substantially such that the entire religion is unknown unless

671
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 3>you know the original languages. We don't believe that.

672
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.199
<v Speaker 6>Do you have an example where it could be lost?

673
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:39.679
<v Speaker 3>There are difficult texts and passages that require linguistic scholars

674
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:43.519
<v Speaker 3>or textual scholars to try to help to understand those passages,

675
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:44.519
<v Speaker 3>but they're not all.

676
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:46.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

677
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:49.039
<v Speaker 3>I think there's passages in the New Testament that are

678
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:53.000
<v Speaker 3>difficult to understand exactly in the Quran, No, I don't

679
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:55.440
<v Speaker 3>study or know the Arabic, but I can give you

680
00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:58.679
<v Speaker 3>one example. In many places in the Koran, for example,

681
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.159
<v Speaker 3>it will mention the prophet in the book, and it

682
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.719
<v Speaker 3>doesn't specify what those generic phrases or people are referring

683
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.960
<v Speaker 3>to hints, why you have all the hadith that helped

684
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:08.880
<v Speaker 3>you explain it.

685
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.639
<v Speaker 7>Right, So, but in the Qur'an, so in your example,

686
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:19.840
<v Speaker 7>you didn't bring up the entire sentence, but you said a.

687
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:24.440
<v Speaker 6>Specific word, like the prophet or the book mean different things.

688
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:28.760
<v Speaker 3>I said, it's generic, that it's not identified, and hence

689
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 3>the hadiths make that clear. So it was very obvious

690
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.199
<v Speaker 3>what I was saying.

691
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.000
<v Speaker 7>Okay, So going back to that point where a language

692
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.400
<v Speaker 7>potentially in case by case spaces, as you stated, could

693
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:47.599
<v Speaker 7>result into using that tool, could result into a loss

694
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:54.440
<v Speaker 7>of understanding in case by case spaces, right, Okay, So

695
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.519
<v Speaker 7>if that's the case, you do you have a complete

696
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.480
<v Speaker 7>example where there would be a loss of understanding.

697
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Again, any of the passages that are ambiguous about what

698
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.920
<v Speaker 3>prophet is being mentioned or what the book quote unquote

699
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:16.360
<v Speaker 3>is are by their very nature ambiguous. Thus the hadith

700
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.800
<v Speaker 3>that later tried to explain and clarify those are my example.

701
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:20.440
<v Speaker 4>No, I understand.

702
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.480
<v Speaker 6>I think that's a valid point when you say that

703
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 6>these clarified.

704
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:27.559
<v Speaker 7>But do you know as as yourself, a complete sentence

705
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:29.639
<v Speaker 7>from Quran that's ambiguous.

706
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:34.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, we have revealed to you a prophet, the book

707
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.639
<v Speaker 3>with the this book with the truth, a confirmation of

708
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:42.440
<v Speaker 3>previous scriptures, previous scriptures, and this book is this this

709
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:48.000
<v Speaker 3>book meaning the Torah, the Engeal, or the Quran are

710
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 3>the previous scriptures? What are these previous scriptures? So it

711
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.639
<v Speaker 3>is ambiguous, and so hence other places in the hadith,

712
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.079
<v Speaker 3>for example, try to clarify.

713
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.880
<v Speaker 7>So in your opinion that in that's in that specific

714
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 7>example that you provided, there is a loss of understanding

715
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:06.400
<v Speaker 7>because it's ambiguous.

716
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.239
<v Speaker 3>Well, and the usage of for example, prophet many times

717
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.199
<v Speaker 3>throughout the Quran is ambiguous as well.

718
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.119
<v Speaker 7>When it talks about the word profit isa or Jesus,

719
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:17.119
<v Speaker 7>that's ambiguous.

720
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:19.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm not talking about those I'm talking about the statements

721
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.280
<v Speaker 3>that just mentioned the prophet, the prophet. The prophet does

722
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:24.360
<v Speaker 3>the Koran tell you in all those cases who the

723
00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:26.519
<v Speaker 3>prophet is right?

724
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.920
<v Speaker 6>Right? So when it uses the word in English.

725
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:30.360
<v Speaker 3>What's your point?

726
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:30.559
<v Speaker 6>Man?

727
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:32.480
<v Speaker 3>This is yapping on and on and on and what

728
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:33.920
<v Speaker 3>do you have an argument or point?

729
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

730
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:37.000
<v Speaker 7>The point is this, because I think you've just proven

731
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.559
<v Speaker 7>it when you use the when you use a word

732
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.679
<v Speaker 7>called t he the and then use the word profit,

733
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:50.039
<v Speaker 7>it is your interpretation from a source language of Arabic

734
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 7>into English.

735
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.559
<v Speaker 6>When you when you qualify something with the with the

736
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:56.760
<v Speaker 6>what does that tell you?

737
00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:58.960
<v Speaker 14>Well?

738
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 6>There can be a loss of this is there's a

739
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:01.639
<v Speaker 6>loss of me.

740
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:03.719
<v Speaker 3>I have no idea what you're trying to argue. If

741
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.280
<v Speaker 3>you're gonna you're not gonna make a point, what's I

742
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:06.920
<v Speaker 3>don't I don't get.

743
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 6>I think I think the point is here. If you

744
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.679
<v Speaker 6>want to debate on Islam, you ought to. You ought

745
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:15.000
<v Speaker 6>to know the source. That's that's my point.

746
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, so do you know the sources of Christianity?

747
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:19.119
<v Speaker 12>No?

748
00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:23.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't so well, so you so once again Islamic

749
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:26.400
<v Speaker 3>double standards. You can come here and debate your religion,

750
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.280
<v Speaker 3>but you but you can talk about Islam, but I

751
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.679
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't talk about Islam because I don't know the source material,

752
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:34.440
<v Speaker 3>even though you don't hold up the source material on

753
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:35.239
<v Speaker 3>the same standard.

754
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.159
<v Speaker 6>Jay, do you know the source language?

755
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.599
<v Speaker 3>So again, so this is all hypocrisy and double standards,

756
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.440
<v Speaker 3>things that you're not going to reply to. No, you're

757
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.800
<v Speaker 3>not going to apply it to yourself. So my arguments

758
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:48.079
<v Speaker 3>stand on their own, whether or not I'm an Arabic

759
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:51.599
<v Speaker 3>scholar or not. And so in other words, listen, shut up,

760
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:53.880
<v Speaker 3>by your standard. I don't have to listen to you

761
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:57.000
<v Speaker 3>because you don't know Greek, Hebrew and Arame. So you

762
00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:59.840
<v Speaker 3>just canceled out yourself by your own double standard. And

763
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:03.360
<v Speaker 3>thank you for vindicating the fact. Thank you for vindicating

764
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:05.960
<v Speaker 3>that you guys use double standards, which was the point

765
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.159
<v Speaker 3>five minutes ago. Here we go, here we go, here

766
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 3>we go. So exactly, I already said that I don't

767
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.760
<v Speaker 3>have the position that you have to know the original

768
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.079
<v Speaker 3>languages to know the religion. That's something that you have

769
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:22.119
<v Speaker 3>invented as a standard, because you don't have an actual

770
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.400
<v Speaker 3>argument ilios. And by the way, I can point if

771
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't know languages, the next best thing one can

772
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:32.000
<v Speaker 3>do is point two scholars, and I can point to

773
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:38.800
<v Speaker 3>multiple scholars that points out ambiguities in the Qur'an. So

774
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.719
<v Speaker 3>this is just going to turn into a infinite regress

775
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.639
<v Speaker 3>of citing so called scholars. Hey, Jamie, could you bring

776
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:45.079
<v Speaker 3>me a water?

777
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:46.480
<v Speaker 6>Thank you?

778
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Go ahead, I'm mute, Yeah, I.

779
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.599
<v Speaker 23>Hello, j Thank you for allowing me to speak. I

780
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:58.400
<v Speaker 23>used to be Muslim, actually memorize.

781
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:00.880
<v Speaker 6>The entire Quran or the Bran.

782
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:05.519
<v Speaker 23>And one of the things that the point I want

783
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:09.639
<v Speaker 23>to make regarding why I left Islam in addition to

784
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:16.760
<v Speaker 23>many other things, is the the foundational contradictions basically, which

785
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.719
<v Speaker 23>is that God a lot a lot basically gave us

786
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:25.119
<v Speaker 23>free will and this life is a test, you know,

787
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:29.159
<v Speaker 23>and you know that test basically decides whether we go

788
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 23>to heaven or we go to help forever. But at

789
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:34.599
<v Speaker 23>the same time there's another verse and yeah, but.

790
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Also all uh basically predestines and determines every single event

791
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:40.920
<v Speaker 3>because most of them are occasionalists, which means that Allah

792
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.880
<v Speaker 3>is the direct cause of every single event.

793
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:44.239
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

794
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:48.280
<v Speaker 23>Yeah, so it's it's like, yeah, so one of those

795
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:53.280
<v Speaker 23>foundational like contradictions like that never made any.

796
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:56.559
<v Speaker 10>Sense to me, you know.

797
00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:58.920
<v Speaker 14>And the other thing is is like, you know, going

798
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:02.320
<v Speaker 14>to help forever just because you don't believe in Muhammad

799
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:03.599
<v Speaker 14>or you know.

800
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:06.159
<v Speaker 6>Some of these teachings.

801
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:08.119
<v Speaker 23>You know, I get like going to hell forever for

802
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.119
<v Speaker 23>killing millions or whatnot, but you know, going to help

803
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:12.960
<v Speaker 23>forever because you don't believe in Mohammad.

804
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:13.239
<v Speaker 12>You know.

805
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:14.159
<v Speaker 10>That's another thing.

806
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:16.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I just wanted to make that point.

807
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:20.760
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, think, yeah, yeah, I'm glad, I think it is.

808
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.000
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right. Like eventually it's kind of clear

809
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:27.599
<v Speaker 3>that there's some pretty fundamental contradictions in this position, this religion,

810
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.920
<v Speaker 3>and that's why we tend to focus on those. I mean,

811
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:31.679
<v Speaker 3>they do the same thing.

812
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:43.360
<v Speaker 17>They're like Trinity trendity would make no sense. Salty m hm,

813
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:45.840
<v Speaker 17>how you doing?

814
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:46.159
<v Speaker 15>What are you?

815
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:51.039
<v Speaker 24>I'm trying to follow what exactly the subject is you're

816
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:52.320
<v Speaker 24>trying to debate?

817
00:47:53.360 --> 00:48:03.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's any of the topics listed under debates, So Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Atheism, libertarianism, uh, Mormonism,

818
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:05.199
<v Speaker 3>those witnesses, you name it.

819
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:13.239
<v Speaker 24>Okay, it's my personal view that I think Catholicism, uh

820
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.320
<v Speaker 24>should be the one Christianity.

821
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:19.320
<v Speaker 10>Just based off the history.

822
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:20.239
<v Speaker 12>And that.

823
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Hold on what does that mean? Just based off the history?

824
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:28.079
<v Speaker 24>So you know, based off of what Jesus said that

825
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:31.320
<v Speaker 24>you know, he shall build his church on the rock

826
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:38.159
<v Speaker 24>and that you know, that's really what Catholicism was actually

827
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:42.639
<v Speaker 24>built on, was the grave of you know, Peter.

828
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:42.920
<v Speaker 6>The rock.

829
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:47.400
<v Speaker 3>So it's built on the grave of Peter. Yeah, do

830
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:48.639
<v Speaker 3>you have any do you have any church? Do you

831
00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:52.760
<v Speaker 3>have any church fathers or New Testament biblical proof or

832
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.119
<v Speaker 3>evidence that the rock of the church in Rome is

833
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:58.960
<v Speaker 3>built on Peter's grave.

834
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:06.280
<v Speaker 24>Well, I mean, Jesus changed Peter's name from Simon, but.

835
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:08.159
<v Speaker 3>He changed Abraham's name too, so what.

836
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:13.280
<v Speaker 10>Well, I mean it just kind of.

837
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:20.559
<v Speaker 24>Uh, I feel like the chain of custody, you know

838
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:22.719
<v Speaker 24>what I mean, would be that.

839
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 3>So, but what I'm saying is, why is it Rome?

840
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:29.559
<v Speaker 3>Since there's three patrine scenes sees Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria,

841
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:31.119
<v Speaker 3>why is Rome the one that's special?

842
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:37.599
<v Speaker 24>Because like that's I mean, Jesus actually conquered the Roman Empire.

843
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 3>Jesus conquered the Roman Empire, so the Roman Catholic Church. Okay, yeah,

844
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:46.480
<v Speaker 3>that's a really good argument. Jesus conquered the Roman Empire,

845
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:50.280
<v Speaker 3>and so the Roman Catholic Church, because it's the word Roman,

846
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 3>is the one true church. Yeah, stellar argument there, Tony.

847
00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:01.480
<v Speaker 3>What's up man? I guess the good news is that

848
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:03.760
<v Speaker 3>if that's where the Roman Catholics are at these days,

849
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 3>then we're doing good. By the way, we got seven

850
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:08.639
<v Speaker 3>hundred and thirty if you would hit like and share,

851
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:15.360
<v Speaker 3>we only got two hundred thirty five likes, Tony. I'm mute, Tony, Tony,

852
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:17.000
<v Speaker 3>it feels good.

853
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:18.679
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

854
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:23.280
<v Speaker 14>So I was just curious. I'm a Catholic, so I'm

855
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:26.159
<v Speaker 14>pretty well, I'm decently.

856
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:28.199
<v Speaker 6>Educated Catholic.

857
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.840
<v Speaker 14>In other words, most Catholics don't really know their faith.

858
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.119
<v Speaker 6>Well, I was just wondering, what faith do you practice?

859
00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:35.239
<v Speaker 3>Orthodox?

860
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:39.119
<v Speaker 10>You're Orthodox Christian Catholic.

861
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:41.400
<v Speaker 6>All right, we're like Eastern Orthodox.

862
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.400
<v Speaker 14>Okay, I give you, you know, kudos for that, because

863
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.519
<v Speaker 14>right now, your your dogma and teachings are are much

864
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.119
<v Speaker 14>a little bit more correct than the Roman Catholic.

865
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:58.880
<v Speaker 3>Right, how is that possible? Given Vatican Ones claims, Well.

866
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.400
<v Speaker 14>The you know, because we've had some problems in the

867
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:07.519
<v Speaker 14>in the Vatican and uh over the years, especially the

868
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:08.960
<v Speaker 14>last fifty or sixty years.

869
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, but I mean, how does that how does that

870
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Vatican One?

871
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:21.639
<v Speaker 14>Yeah? Well, you know, I would I yeah, yeah, you know,

872
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:23.719
<v Speaker 14>well I don't want to, you know, because I'm a

873
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:28.360
<v Speaker 14>little different than a lot of other Catholics. And I'm

874
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:31.480
<v Speaker 14>pretty serious. I'm a Roman Catholic. I'm a Carmelite.

875
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:34.000
<v Speaker 3>So so how are you different? What do you mean?

876
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:35.599
<v Speaker 7>Meaning?

877
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:39.519
<v Speaker 6>You know, I I do believe that there was some error.

878
00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:44.119
<v Speaker 14>Because man is man, and there are some things that

879
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:48.719
<v Speaker 14>that get twisted in belief system and and it's and

880
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.440
<v Speaker 14>and probably started at Vatican One. So a lot of

881
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:55.159
<v Speaker 14>Catholics will agree with that. In other words, with that statement,

882
00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.599
<v Speaker 14>I just made that there were some errors and translations

883
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:03.920
<v Speaker 14>of things and teachings from Vatican One, but overall the

884
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:07.480
<v Speaker 14>Catholic faith is pretty much intact.

885
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:13.400
<v Speaker 3>Do you believe with Vatican one that everything that is

886
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:16.960
<v Speaker 3>proposed by divine and Catholic faith are to be believed,

887
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:20.800
<v Speaker 3>whether contained in the Word of God, scripture, tradition, or

888
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:26.239
<v Speaker 3>ex cathedral solmn judgment or ordinary universal magisterium, are infallible?

889
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:28.559
<v Speaker 4>Well?

890
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:34.000
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, yeah, see you're well you really grabbed me, you know,

891
00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:37.159
<v Speaker 14>because that's where I do have some questions about the

892
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:40.760
<v Speaker 14>infallibility on who judges that as infallible?

893
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean Vatican one says the purpose. Yeah, it

894
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:46.719
<v Speaker 3>says the purpose. Who does it? So we know what

895
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:48.199
<v Speaker 3>the Roman Church teaches?

896
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:52.800
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, so so yeah, I do have some difficulties with

897
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.519
<v Speaker 14>that because I do see lots of how we went

898
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:57.559
<v Speaker 14>from near in other.

899
00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:59.280
<v Speaker 3>Words, from Okay, well, but I mean I'm not trying

900
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.679
<v Speaker 3>to me mean to you, but I mean, if you

901
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.400
<v Speaker 3>have difficulties with an ecumenical council approved by the Roman Sea,

902
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:07.840
<v Speaker 3>you're no longer Roman Catholic Because Roman Catholicism says that

903
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.480
<v Speaker 3>to adopt one heresy or to reject an ecumenical council

904
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:14.159
<v Speaker 3>or dogmatic teaching no longer makes you Roman Catholic.

905
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:21.599
<v Speaker 14>Well yeah, yeah, I could say right now, I am

906
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:24.280
<v Speaker 14>not going to Mass. I don't like Vatican two Mass.

907
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:26.199
<v Speaker 14>I don't believe it's a valid Mass.

908
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:31.239
<v Speaker 3>Oh so you're a traditional Catholic, you would call me more.

909
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.000
<v Speaker 6>My beliefs are in the traditional Catholic beliefs.

910
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:36.519
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but every track Cat I've ever met or non

911
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:38.800
<v Speaker 3>believes Vatican One is infallible.

912
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:42.800
<v Speaker 14>So you're a why I said when I said there

913
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:47.000
<v Speaker 14>is an infallibility to it, it's just I have some questions.

914
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:49.920
<v Speaker 3>About Oh so it's infallible except for the places where

915
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:50.800
<v Speaker 3>it makes mistakes.

916
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:57.159
<v Speaker 14>Well, yeah, I think some problems can I couldn't.

917
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:58.719
<v Speaker 3>Actually that would have been, that would be I mean

918
00:53:58.800 --> 00:53:59.840
<v Speaker 3>that it's not infallible.

919
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:05.000
<v Speaker 14>So well, nothing's infallible, and man, that's my point.

920
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, but I mean the claim of the Roman Catholic

921
00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:09.360
<v Speaker 3>Church is that the Roman see is infallible in a

922
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:10.360
<v Speaker 3>man in Rome.

923
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:15.280
<v Speaker 14>So that's not true if they follow the procedure exactly correctly, which.

924
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:15.559
<v Speaker 6>Is what they do.

925
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.840
<v Speaker 3>But it actually no, actually it does not say only

926
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.199
<v Speaker 3>when they quote follow a procedure, it actually says that

927
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.920
<v Speaker 3>also His Ordinary Universal Magistrate is guided by the patrin

928
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Charism too, So it's not just the ex Cathedra statements.

929
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:30.360
<v Speaker 3>It's also extended to the Universal Ordinary Teaching Office.

930
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:32.440
<v Speaker 6>But Orthodox.

931
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:39.639
<v Speaker 14>Is along the same lines and in beliefs as Vatican ones.

932
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:45.119
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, I'm not trying to but no, there's nothing

933
00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:47.559
<v Speaker 3>in Orthodox Christianity that's in line with Vatican One. So

934
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:51.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm not trying to be rude, but just know what

935
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:54.920
<v Speaker 3>at all in Orthodox Christianity at all lines up with

936
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:01.239
<v Speaker 3>Vatican One. I mean, Martin Luther, here we go. Oh

937
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:04.519
<v Speaker 3>my gosh, bongo five dollars, Jay big fan. My question

938
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.119
<v Speaker 3>is how much choice do we have and what we believe?

939
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:11.880
<v Speaker 3>I think a good amount. I mean, we might be

940
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:16.239
<v Speaker 3>predisposed to something because we were raised with it when

941
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:18.599
<v Speaker 3>maybe we fell under the spell of a cult leader

942
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:21.039
<v Speaker 3>or something when we were young and we didn't have

943
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:25.280
<v Speaker 3>the full faculty of a free choice and reason functioning.

944
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:28.880
<v Speaker 3>But I think that as we get older and more mature,

945
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:31.639
<v Speaker 3>I think we have a good amount of choice in

946
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:34.800
<v Speaker 3>what we believe. I know that we laugh at Matt

947
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:38.559
<v Speaker 3>Dilon monkey saying, quote, I'm not convinced, but how much

948
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:40.559
<v Speaker 3>choice do we have and what we find convincing? Do

949
00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:43.199
<v Speaker 3>external factors play a role? Yeah?

950
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 10>They do.

951
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:47.159
<v Speaker 3>I just think that the problem when we critique Matt

952
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:50.159
<v Speaker 3>Dolo Monkey for saying I'm not convinced, it's not because

953
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 3>you can't express that as a kind of an existential

954
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.199
<v Speaker 3>dilemma or crisis. It's just that you can't use that

955
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:59.519
<v Speaker 3>as an argument. It's not an argument. It's a psychological report,

956
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.159
<v Speaker 3>and in debates, psychological reports of absolutely no value. They're irrelevant.

957
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:08.840
<v Speaker 3>Vain five dollars. Here is a new Matt Dolla Monkey

958
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:13.159
<v Speaker 3>song I whipped up. I'll have to go into the

959
00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 3>stream labs, the back door of the stream labs to

960
00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:20.719
<v Speaker 3>get the link. I can't get links from the desktop.

961
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Vain two dollars. It's a down potato syndrome, just being

962
00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:32.039
<v Speaker 3>Canadian exactly, mim kg five dollars. The iron here is

963
00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:37.119
<v Speaker 3>that this kid, what's his name, Colby cold Cuts, Colby

964
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 3>Potato cold Cuts. He's a taate fan. How is he

965
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:44.440
<v Speaker 3>sensitive to tone policing? Well, all those people are just

966
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.800
<v Speaker 3>tone policers when anybody challenges them. But he's going to

967
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:52.920
<v Speaker 3>act like he's some tough dude for front and he

968
00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:57.239
<v Speaker 3>front Yon Vander shoot five dollars. How many boogers are

969
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 3>in the uncreated nose of a lot? That's a good question.

970
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:04.199
<v Speaker 3>If you got an uncreated shin and an uncreative foot

971
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:08.679
<v Speaker 3>into uncreated right hands, do you got to uncreated nose?

972
00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Steve mclove and two dollars? Why didn't all I give

973
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:18.840
<v Speaker 3>Jesus a printing press for the Injeel that came down

974
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:23.400
<v Speaker 3>as a book? Exactly? That that right there, by the way,

975
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:27.719
<v Speaker 3>tells you that Islam like didn't understand what was the message.

976
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:33.199
<v Speaker 3>Like they misunderstood the message of the Gospels and Jesus's

977
00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:37.360
<v Speaker 3>Gospel and the Gospels meaning the books, and they thought

978
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.719
<v Speaker 3>that the Injeel was a book. I mean, it's that

979
00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:45.039
<v Speaker 3>right there tells you that this is a low, subtard

980
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:50.599
<v Speaker 3>level misunderstanding that they wrote into their religion. Mkg five dollars.

981
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.079
<v Speaker 3>By the way, I've been wondering about the origin of

982
00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:57.360
<v Speaker 3>the Islamic dilemma? Who introduced it? Do you think your

983
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:02.239
<v Speaker 3>background in philosophy and orthodoxy bolt it. I think that

984
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:06.880
<v Speaker 3>I understood it pretty quickly when I first encountered it.

985
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:10.800
<v Speaker 3>But I'm sure there have been apologetic people who've been

986
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:12.960
<v Speaker 3>talking about it for a long time. I'm sure Shamoon

987
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:15.519
<v Speaker 3>and David Wood and all these people were talking about

988
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.280
<v Speaker 3>lay before, way before I knew about it. I don't

989
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:21.000
<v Speaker 3>know who was the first person to use that argument

990
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:24.480
<v Speaker 3>would be. It's probably been around for a long time.

991
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:27.639
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you don't have to read very far into

992
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:31.920
<v Speaker 3>the Quran. You know two and then chapter five, saw

993
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:37.840
<v Speaker 3>twos or five, right, and you're already encountering what it

994
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:40.760
<v Speaker 3>says about the prior revelation. So it's not like it took,

995
00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:45.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, a whole thousand years of research to understand

996
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:48.599
<v Speaker 3>that they made these really stupid claims. Harry Sarpanos ten

997
00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:52.880
<v Speaker 3>dollars White and Muslims evangelized when Muhammad told Jews that

998
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:55.400
<v Speaker 3>they should follow Torah and Gentiles that they have their

999
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:59.119
<v Speaker 3>Bible as well. It's not it's an inconsistent position. Obviously,

1000
00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:02.639
<v Speaker 3>Muhammad was clear the Quran was written in Arabic and

1001
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:04.559
<v Speaker 3>only intended for the Arabs. Yeah, this is the point

1002
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:07.920
<v Speaker 3>that also David Wood makes that originally this was supposed

1003
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:11.559
<v Speaker 3>to be the religion for the Arab peoples, but then

1004
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:14.599
<v Speaker 3>later on, as you get these phases of Mohammad's career

1005
00:59:14.679 --> 00:59:17.159
<v Speaker 3>in his life. Then it turns into a no, actually,

1006
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:21.079
<v Speaker 3>we got to conquer all these people. Cody s five dollars.

1007
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:25.800
<v Speaker 3>The Bible is a Vatican one is infallible except where

1008
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:29.400
<v Speaker 3>it makes the mistakes. Where have we heard that before?

1009
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh Islam? This is actually a good point. What we

1010
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.360
<v Speaker 3>hear from Roman Catholics is the same coping type of

1011
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:42.679
<v Speaker 3>mechanism that you see manifesting with the Muslims. Exactly, very perceptive.

1012
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:48.039
<v Speaker 3>Joho Shafat Julian five dollars. Can you refute Native American culture?

1013
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:53.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm Native. I mean I would do a critique of

1014
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:56.679
<v Speaker 3>the religious beliefs. I don't know about critiquing the culture,

1015
00:59:56.840 --> 01:00:00.599
<v Speaker 3>but if I was to create a critique Native American theology,

1016
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:03.559
<v Speaker 3>it would be a critique of, you know whatever. There

1017
01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:06.800
<v Speaker 3>are various theological principles. I'm not very well studied on

1018
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:11.320
<v Speaker 3>all the various Native American religious traditions, so I mean,

1019
01:00:11.320 --> 01:00:13.639
<v Speaker 3>I know they confess like a creator, you know, the

1020
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:16.880
<v Speaker 3>great Spirit or whatever. I think there's like their version

1021
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:19.519
<v Speaker 3>of the Ten Commandments. They have like ten basic principles

1022
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.239
<v Speaker 3>of the Creator Spirit or something. But I think that

1023
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:25.559
<v Speaker 3>it also has polytheistic elements, so that's probably where I

1024
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:30.360
<v Speaker 3>would begin the critique. David Koshaba seven dollars, New Zealand. Hey, Jamie,

1025
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:31.559
<v Speaker 3>could you bring me a gender tube?

1026
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:33.679
<v Speaker 6>Can you hear me?

1027
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:37.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, Martin? Did you want to go ahead?

1028
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:39.159
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1029
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:42.360
<v Speaker 25>I was wanting to know what you thought about John Calvin,

1030
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:47.039
<v Speaker 25>John Knox, and Martin Luther's work as far as salvation

1031
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:52.320
<v Speaker 25>because in Jude talks about the faith that wants to delivered.

1032
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'll referenced that passes many times to refute cults.

1033
01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:05.079
<v Speaker 26>Roman Catholicism, I think is the cradle of Christianity unless

1034
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:09.559
<v Speaker 26>you've been like I have exposed to Baptist Lark Mark

1035
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:16.599
<v Speaker 26>Mark Landmarkism, which is it traces Christianity through Peter Lombard.

1036
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:20.079
<v Speaker 4>Are you familiar with that argument?

1037
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:23.159
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm familiar with the claims of the Trail

1038
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:25.639
<v Speaker 3>of Blood. I have a copy over there. But why

1039
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:28.320
<v Speaker 3>would I think the true Christianity is maintained through a

1040
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:32.000
<v Speaker 3>bunch of anti trinitarian, heretical, crazy groups. Don't you think

1041
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:32.760
<v Speaker 3>that's kind of silly?

1042
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:40.480
<v Speaker 4>I was just asking, so, what denomination do you personally affiliate.

1043
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.199
<v Speaker 3>With Orthodox Eastern Orthodox Christianity?

1044
01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:49.480
<v Speaker 4>So are you familiar with Brother Nathaniel unfortunately? So what's

1045
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:50.840
<v Speaker 4>your take on his views?

1046
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:51.920
<v Speaker 3>He's a quack?

1047
01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:56.679
<v Speaker 6>Can you extrapolate on.

1048
01:01:56.760 --> 01:01:58.639
<v Speaker 3>This quack equal mentally? Ill?

1049
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:06.920
<v Speaker 4>Okay, what's your understanding of ken Ham.

1050
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.760
<v Speaker 6>And the Arc down in Kentucky and advocating the earth is.

1051
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:13.639
<v Speaker 4>Eight thousand years old?

1052
01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:16.960
<v Speaker 3>I think that there's some good arguments for young Earth.

1053
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:19.840
<v Speaker 3>I tend to favor that view myself. I've never been

1054
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.599
<v Speaker 3>to the Arc. I think would be cool to go see,

1055
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:23.599
<v Speaker 3>but I'm not a huge fan of ken Ham.

1056
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:27.119
<v Speaker 4>You're a huge fan of Canaham.

1057
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Not a huge fan of Kenham because I would say

1058
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:32.239
<v Speaker 3>he has goofy theology.

1059
01:02:33.159 --> 01:02:34.440
<v Speaker 4>Answers in Genesis.

1060
01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:38.800
<v Speaker 27>The reason I got started in being a Christian I

1061
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:45.760
<v Speaker 27>was introduced to the old schoolfield Bible, the original schoolfield,

1062
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:49.039
<v Speaker 27>and it promoted the gap theory.

1063
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:52.039
<v Speaker 4>And recently I came across they said.

1064
01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:58.880
<v Speaker 27>Of Pleplo Bible school Notes from nine nine Universal Notes,

1065
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:00.239
<v Speaker 27>and they allowed.

1066
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:04.840
<v Speaker 4>For millions of years for the Earth. So I laid

1067
01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:06.760
<v Speaker 4>that as a fact, I asked this question.

1068
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:11.199
<v Speaker 27>I've run into people who were dogmatically committed.

1069
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:15.239
<v Speaker 4>To answers and Genesis, and they considered anyone who is

1070
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:21.159
<v Speaker 4>Old Earth to be a heretic, that's my takeaway. And

1071
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:23.599
<v Speaker 4>now this fellowship, are you fami with that.

1072
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:27.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm not Protestants, so I've not been in the Protestant

1073
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:29.880
<v Speaker 3>world since two thousand and two, so I don't know

1074
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.519
<v Speaker 3>anything about these groups or what you're talking about. I

1075
01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:35.000
<v Speaker 3>was at one time a reader of the Schofield Bible

1076
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:38.760
<v Speaker 3>when I was a teenager, but I soon learned that

1077
01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:42.440
<v Speaker 3>that was a psyop that was funded by the essentially

1078
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:46.639
<v Speaker 3>the Jewish power structure in England to promote the idea

1079
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:49.239
<v Speaker 3>of the restoration of the Nation State of Israel. The

1080
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:53.360
<v Speaker 3>balf Declaration all that to Americans, and thus all the

1081
01:03:53.519 --> 01:04:00.599
<v Speaker 3>idiot American evangelicals were duped into supporting a Secularish empire

1082
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:03.440
<v Speaker 3>project known as the Nation State of Israel, which has

1083
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:06.239
<v Speaker 3>nothing to do with the biblical nation State of Israel.

1084
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:12.280
<v Speaker 6>So I concur with you, and I am I would

1085
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.039
<v Speaker 6>like to.

1086
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:18.719
<v Speaker 27>Validate what you said through the readings or whatever resources

1087
01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:23.880
<v Speaker 27>you can give me, because I am not a Zionist

1088
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:29.639
<v Speaker 27>and I personally have ethical problems with the total ethnic

1089
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:34.840
<v Speaker 27>cleansing of the Palestinians. And I heard Richard Lamb this

1090
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:38.400
<v Speaker 27>is a personal story. Richard Lamb was the head of

1091
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:45.519
<v Speaker 27>the Executive Committee for Ethics of the Southern Baptist Convention.

1092
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:50.280
<v Speaker 27>I heard him speak at Trace Creek Baptist churchill Kentucky,

1093
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:55.360
<v Speaker 27>and he called for the annihilation of every man, woman

1094
01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:59.400
<v Speaker 27>and child in Gaza because the Jews had total and

1095
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.039
<v Speaker 27>absolute right to that lane.

1096
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:07.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're judaizing heretics and there morons, so exactly. I

1097
01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:10.480
<v Speaker 3>appreciate your call, but no, I do not like the

1098
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:12.960
<v Speaker 3>theology of either Martin Luther or John Calvin. I have

1099
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:16.960
<v Speaker 3>multiple lengthy critiques of both of those people, mark In,

1100
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:19.239
<v Speaker 3>but thank you for your comments.

1101
01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:27.480
<v Speaker 6>You can you hear me? Is this stream like a

1102
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:30.119
<v Speaker 6>met alone to ast questions or is it only disagreements?

1103
01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:32.920
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty open, So what's on your mind?

1104
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:35.559
<v Speaker 6>I have two questions.

1105
01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:39.159
<v Speaker 15>The first one is about philosophy, the others about theology.

1106
01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:43.599
<v Speaker 15>The first one you can correct me if I'm wrong,

1107
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.599
<v Speaker 15>But I believe about like two or three months ago,

1108
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:47.719
<v Speaker 15>you want to stream, and you were talking about how

1109
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:51.519
<v Speaker 15>the law of identity states that like two things cannot

1110
01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:54.760
<v Speaker 15>subsist together or something like that, and you were saying

1111
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:57.679
<v Speaker 15>that the Lord Jesus is above that law, which is

1112
01:05:57.719 --> 01:05:58.920
<v Speaker 15>why you can have two natures.

1113
01:05:59.079 --> 01:05:59.920
<v Speaker 6>Do you remember something.

1114
01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember the specific live stream, but I mean

1115
01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:09.280
<v Speaker 3>I think that if you use the classical definitions of

1116
01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:13.280
<v Speaker 3>some of these things in the Aristotelian sense, they don't

1117
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:15.519
<v Speaker 3>fit into the Christian paradigm when we try to apply

1118
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:19.280
<v Speaker 3>them to God. God transcends those categories because those are

1119
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:21.559
<v Speaker 3>categories for the created order, so they're not going to

1120
01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:23.920
<v Speaker 3>be perfectly applicable to the Creator.

1121
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:28.280
<v Speaker 6>Okay, So my question was like, if someone else to

1122
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:28.920
<v Speaker 6>how do you know.

1123
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.159
<v Speaker 15>That this law of logic doesn't apply to God and

1124
01:06:31.239 --> 01:06:34.119
<v Speaker 15>the others do with the answer to me, well, that's like,

1125
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:35.760
<v Speaker 15>what's divinely ritual to us?

1126
01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:41.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's not just that, it's that the theological revelation

1127
01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:46.039
<v Speaker 3>tells us the limitations of the created order and logic

1128
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:48.360
<v Speaker 3>applying to God. So, in other words, revelation itself tells

1129
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:51.760
<v Speaker 3>us that, for example, God is transcendent, so there's no

1130
01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:57.320
<v Speaker 3>finite created category that's going to perfectly box him in

1131
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:00.639
<v Speaker 3>or define him or encapsulate him. That that's part of

1132
01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:04.280
<v Speaker 3>apathetic theology and why we say, for example, the essence

1133
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:07.639
<v Speaker 3>of God is unknowable. That doesn't mean that God is

1134
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:11.880
<v Speaker 3>holy or totally unknowable. Because as Besil says, his energies

1135
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:15.199
<v Speaker 3>come down to us. So we have these rays r

1136
01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:18.840
<v Speaker 3>ay that extend from God down to us, these energies

1137
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.679
<v Speaker 3>which reveal aspects of God, but never totally and never exhaustively.

1138
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:26.639
<v Speaker 3>So logic is something that reflects the mind of God,

1139
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.000
<v Speaker 3>but it doesn't define God and it doesn't exhaust God.

1140
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.119
<v Speaker 3>So you can't say, for example, the law of identity,

1141
01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:36.000
<v Speaker 3>which is a reflection of God's mind. You couldn't say,

1142
01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:38.559
<v Speaker 3>for example, God's mind is the law of identity.

1143
01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:43.599
<v Speaker 6>You see, Okay, thank you for that. And then I's tha.

1144
01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:48.039
<v Speaker 6>A question I had about is Luke II, verse.

1145
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:50.320
<v Speaker 10>Fifty two, where it talks about how the.

1146
01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:53.599
<v Speaker 15>Lord Jesus grew in wisdom. And I've heard two different

1147
01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:57.199
<v Speaker 15>interpretations about this verse. Some people interpret it like, oh,

1148
01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:00.440
<v Speaker 15>that's that's like the human brain of the or Jesus

1149
01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:03.639
<v Speaker 15>not grew in wisdom, but then the defined mind always

1150
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:06.519
<v Speaker 15>knew everything, which I might be wrong, but it sounds a.

1151
01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:07.960
<v Speaker 6>Bit Astorian to me.

1152
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:12.079
<v Speaker 15>And then the second interpretition I heard is from Saint

1153
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:15.400
<v Speaker 15>Cyril of Alexandria, and the way that he interpreted it is.

1154
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:18.199
<v Speaker 6>To say that it's not that the Lord Jesus actually

1155
01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:21.079
<v Speaker 6>grew in wisdom. It's that it seemed like he grew

1156
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:22.560
<v Speaker 6>in wisdom from our perspective.

1157
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:25.399
<v Speaker 15>Just like when the Bible says that he became a curse,

1158
01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:27.399
<v Speaker 15>it's not that he was a real curse. It's just

1159
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.520
<v Speaker 15>it's as if he was a curse. Which interpreation do

1160
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.760
<v Speaker 15>you think would fit better?

1161
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:35.239
<v Speaker 3>I think both can be understood in an orthodox way.

1162
01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:38.319
<v Speaker 3>I understand what Saint Cyril is saying there, But I

1163
01:08:38.359 --> 01:08:40.880
<v Speaker 3>also don't think it's necessarily an historian to say that

1164
01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:48.800
<v Speaker 3>the human mind would have undergone increase. So, for example,

1165
01:08:49.640 --> 01:08:52.640
<v Speaker 3>just like his human body, right, his human body underwent change.

1166
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:54.880
<v Speaker 3>It went from being a baby to being a mature adult.

1167
01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:58.399
<v Speaker 3>So there's nothing wrong with the idea that the human

1168
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:03.560
<v Speaker 3>mind increased in knowledge and in wisdom. So I don't

1169
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:07.560
<v Speaker 3>see that necessarily as a problem. It could also be

1170
01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:10.680
<v Speaker 3>like the wisdom there, it could be a communicating of

1171
01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:13.720
<v Speaker 3>the grace to the humanity by the divinity. So there

1172
01:09:13.720 --> 01:09:17.359
<v Speaker 3>could be a greater participation, you could say. But Caserra

1173
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:22.520
<v Speaker 3>himself says, for example, that after the resurrection, Jesus is

1174
01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:26.239
<v Speaker 3>in a certain sense fully deified, not that he wasn't

1175
01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.960
<v Speaker 3>deified prior to it, but that he willed to undergo

1176
01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:33.079
<v Speaker 3>the blameless passions before the resurrection, but after the resurrection

1177
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:37.079
<v Speaker 3>his flesh is fully and totally deified. So there is

1178
01:09:37.159 --> 01:09:39.479
<v Speaker 3>some kind of progress, and there is some kind of

1179
01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:45.399
<v Speaker 3>communication that's happening between the divinity, the divine person, communicating

1180
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:48.479
<v Speaker 3>the divine energies to the human nature that he possesses.

1181
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:49.399
<v Speaker 5>To grow it.

1182
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.920
<v Speaker 3>I guess you could say, I don't think that's necessarily heretical.

1183
01:09:55.359 --> 01:09:58.560
<v Speaker 15>I just I just maybe it's because I'm orient or Orthodox,

1184
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:02.079
<v Speaker 15>and I'm still looking into Orthodoxy because in my opinion,

1185
01:10:02.439 --> 01:10:04.119
<v Speaker 15>the true churches has to be one.

1186
01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:06.039
<v Speaker 6>Of those two. I'm just on a journey to see,

1187
01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:06.760
<v Speaker 6>like which one it is.

1188
01:10:07.119 --> 01:10:07.880
<v Speaker 12>But I don't know.

1189
01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:09.720
<v Speaker 15>I guess the reason that sounds serious to me is

1190
01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:13.119
<v Speaker 15>like to say that, oh, he knows this in his divine.

1191
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:15.000
<v Speaker 6>Mind, but not in his human mind. The way that

1192
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:17.439
<v Speaker 6>I look at it is the person, you know, the

1193
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:19.039
<v Speaker 6>Lord Jesus. He either knows it or not.

1194
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:19.640
<v Speaker 12>I don't know.

1195
01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:20.600
<v Speaker 6>Maybe I'm wrong.

1196
01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:22.439
<v Speaker 3>In thinking about Well, that's why I think when you

1197
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:27.720
<v Speaker 3>get to the dispute between Cyril and Ument, not serial,

1198
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:32.119
<v Speaker 3>the dispute between Saint Maximus and Peirus, this question comes

1199
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:36.239
<v Speaker 3>into play because the idea is that it's not that

1200
01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:42.359
<v Speaker 3>a change in the human mind necessitates that he is

1201
01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.159
<v Speaker 3>no longer omniscient. That's why we affirm that both things

1202
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:46.840
<v Speaker 3>are true of him, that he has a divine mind

1203
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:49.800
<v Speaker 3>and a human mind, and we don't make mind a

1204
01:10:52.359 --> 01:10:56.119
<v Speaker 3>property of person, it's a property of nature. So this

1205
01:10:56.319 --> 01:10:59.760
<v Speaker 3>is where n hypostatize comes into play, that although mind

1206
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:05.159
<v Speaker 3>and will are faculties of nature, they exist in the

1207
01:11:05.279 --> 01:11:08.479
<v Speaker 3>mode of the person that has them. So only by

1208
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:15.199
<v Speaker 3>confusing hypostasis versus nature I think would you think that

1209
01:11:15.880 --> 01:11:17.720
<v Speaker 3>that would be the conclusion from what you said?

1210
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:22.000
<v Speaker 6>Okay, I'll go back and re listen to that, just

1211
01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:22.399
<v Speaker 6>to make sure.

1212
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:25.359
<v Speaker 3>What how did you phrase it? What was you said that?

1213
01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:27.760
<v Speaker 3>It would sound a Nestorian to say how did you

1214
01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:28.359
<v Speaker 3>phrase it? Again?

1215
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:31.760
<v Speaker 15>Just to me personally, it sounds a bit of Nestorian

1216
01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:34.920
<v Speaker 15>to say, like, the human mind doesn't know this, but

1217
01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.239
<v Speaker 15>the divine mind does know it. It just to me,

1218
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:42.479
<v Speaker 15>it's like giving personal properties to things that are not persons.

1219
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:45.520
<v Speaker 15>The way to argue is like the person the Lord Jesus,

1220
01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:47.520
<v Speaker 15>he either knows it or he doesn't.

1221
01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but see, that's exactly my point is that mind

1222
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:56.640
<v Speaker 3>and will are not hypostatic properties. There are properties of

1223
01:11:56.840 --> 01:12:00.479
<v Speaker 3>nature that exist in the mode of the person's you see,

1224
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:03.760
<v Speaker 3>that's where there's a different there's a distinction between will

1225
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:08.079
<v Speaker 3>qua will. Well, all I mean by that is that

1226
01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:11.960
<v Speaker 3>something can be the property of a nature, but it

1227
01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:14.439
<v Speaker 3>only exists in the mode of the persons that have

1228
01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:16.920
<v Speaker 3>the nature. So that's why they're there. This is the

1229
01:12:16.960 --> 01:12:19.560
<v Speaker 3>difference between the nature and the mode of the nature.

1230
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:25.000
<v Speaker 3>And I think that perhaps Orientals confuse those two things.

1231
01:12:25.079 --> 01:12:27.880
<v Speaker 3>They they think that we're saying that there's two minds,

1232
01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:31.800
<v Speaker 3>so there's therefore there's two persons because persons that minds

1233
01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:34.960
<v Speaker 3>are therefore properties of persons. But we're saying, no, minds

1234
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.960
<v Speaker 3>are not properties of persons, the properties of nature that

1235
01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:41.159
<v Speaker 3>persons have. So for us, distinction between nature and person

1236
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:42.199
<v Speaker 3>is the root there.

1237
01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:45.399
<v Speaker 15>Okay, Now, the reason why I might be a bit

1238
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:47.439
<v Speaker 15>confused this because I've only been relievous for like a

1239
01:12:47.479 --> 01:12:50.159
<v Speaker 15>little over a year because of launching Censor Moon.

1240
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:53.520
<v Speaker 6>And you do you have time for one more quession

1241
01:12:53.640 --> 01:12:54.000
<v Speaker 6>or yeah?

1242
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:55.680
<v Speaker 3>And by the way, I would say on this point,

1243
01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:59.479
<v Speaker 3>read the John mcguckan book on Cyril of Alexander and

1244
01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:04.359
<v Speaker 3>the Chrystal controversy, and read the Maximus debate with Peerists.

1245
01:13:04.359 --> 01:13:06.560
<v Speaker 3>It's called Disputation with Pearis. It's really short, it's only

1246
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:07.319
<v Speaker 3>like ninety pages.

1247
01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:08.439
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1248
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:10.840
<v Speaker 15>I talked to you before and you recommended thinks cherol

1249
01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:15.760
<v Speaker 15>in the uh Alexandria and the the Christ Controversiological.

1250
01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.439
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I bought it. I haven't read yet because I'm

1251
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:20.359
<v Speaker 6>still reading the Orthodox Study Lebel.

1252
01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:22.840
<v Speaker 15>I read it once, but I'm rereading it because I

1253
01:13:22.880 --> 01:13:24.560
<v Speaker 15>really want to get to know about good and then

1254
01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:27.359
<v Speaker 15>go into like I cimitical councils and the Saints later.

1255
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:27.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1256
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:31.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, you're always welcome. I'm I enjoy You're a very

1257
01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:34.439
<v Speaker 3>civil Oriental person to dialogue with, so I appreciate it.

1258
01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:35.720
<v Speaker 6>Thank you.

1259
01:13:35.960 --> 01:13:37.760
<v Speaker 15>I'm I might not be so civil in a couple

1260
01:13:37.760 --> 01:13:38.960
<v Speaker 15>of years when I get more information.

1261
01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:41.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's fine. I mean I'm not I'm not opposed

1262
01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:44.560
<v Speaker 3>to uh, you know, having these debates. Did you you've

1263
01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:47.319
<v Speaker 3>seen we're on my channel. We're doing an oriental series.

1264
01:13:47.960 --> 01:13:49.399
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, both of them.

1265
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:52.000
<v Speaker 15>You guys have made some some good point, good points

1266
01:13:52.039 --> 01:13:53.920
<v Speaker 15>that I like have maybe you know, think and come

1267
01:13:53.960 --> 01:13:57.479
<v Speaker 15>up with questions regarding the Christology. But at this point

1268
01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:58.960
<v Speaker 15>I don't know so much about it because I haven't

1269
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:00.640
<v Speaker 15>gone into like the church's, you know. But when I

1270
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:02.640
<v Speaker 15>get there, all the ask you a little bit more questions.

1271
01:14:02.920 --> 01:14:07.000
<v Speaker 15>All lost what I had was about. In Proverbs ninety seven,

1272
01:14:07.079 --> 01:14:10.159
<v Speaker 15>it says that it's wrong to like rebuke a wicked man,

1273
01:14:10.279 --> 01:14:13.479
<v Speaker 15>like a person who rebukes a wicked man only harms himself.

1274
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:17.239
<v Speaker 15>And then in Job thirty one twenty nine, when Saint

1275
01:14:17.319 --> 01:14:20.000
<v Speaker 15>Job is trying to tell God like he's trying to

1276
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:23.319
<v Speaker 15>think of what sins he's committed, he says, have I

1277
01:14:23.960 --> 01:14:26.880
<v Speaker 15>rejoiced at the destruction of him who hated me? These

1278
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:30.640
<v Speaker 15>verses really confuse me because I don't understand, like, is

1279
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:32.760
<v Speaker 15>it like is this thing that it's a bad thing

1280
01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:34.800
<v Speaker 15>to rebuke someone who's wicked, or to.

1281
01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:35.520
<v Speaker 6>Like betraying right.

1282
01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:39.840
<v Speaker 3>So, for example, the way that the New King James

1283
01:14:39.960 --> 01:14:43.920
<v Speaker 3>translates Proverbs ninety seven says, he who corrects a scoffer

1284
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:47.720
<v Speaker 3>gets shame for himself, and he rejects a rebukes a

1285
01:14:47.800 --> 01:14:50.640
<v Speaker 3>wicked man only harms himself. So a lot of times

1286
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:54.000
<v Speaker 3>in the Proverbs they do a doubling. It's a coupling

1287
01:14:54.079 --> 01:14:56.279
<v Speaker 3>that they do so in other words, scoffer is the same.

1288
01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:01.119
<v Speaker 3>The two sentences or phrases are identical, So the scoffer

1289
01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:02.760
<v Speaker 3>is the same thing as the wicked man. So in

1290
01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:05.319
<v Speaker 3>other words, what's meant by wicked man is a scaffer.

1291
01:15:05.359 --> 01:15:08.199
<v Speaker 3>It's like when Jesus says, don't throw your pearls before swine,

1292
01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:12.279
<v Speaker 3>meaning that we have the common sense, hopefully and the

1293
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:15.279
<v Speaker 3>wisdom to identify when, for example, it's a waste of

1294
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.359
<v Speaker 3>time to engage with a certain person. Right, So let's

1295
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:22.359
<v Speaker 3>if some guys like, I don't know, just unhinged and

1296
01:15:22.520 --> 01:15:24.520
<v Speaker 3>like cussing you out, and like you're not going to

1297
01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:26.840
<v Speaker 3>be able to reason with him, right, So trying to

1298
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.279
<v Speaker 3>rebuke somebody who's unhinged would be a waste of time

1299
01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:32.279
<v Speaker 3>and you're only going to bring harm to yourself. So

1300
01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:35.119
<v Speaker 3>I think that's what's meant in Proverbs ninety seven. It's

1301
01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:40.840
<v Speaker 3>like pearls before swine and then the rejoicing at the

1302
01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:43.199
<v Speaker 3>death of the wicked. I think that there's a way

1303
01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:45.600
<v Speaker 3>that we can understand it in that it is a

1304
01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:49.239
<v Speaker 3>manifestation of divine justice if we get victory over the

1305
01:15:49.279 --> 01:15:51.800
<v Speaker 3>wicked or if a wicked because there's proverbs for example,

1306
01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:54.720
<v Speaker 3>to say, when a wickedman dies, the city rejoices. Right

1307
01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:59.000
<v Speaker 3>when a wicked ruler passes away or is defeated, the

1308
01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:01.880
<v Speaker 3>city rejoices. And yet at the same time, we shouldn't

1309
01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:07.319
<v Speaker 3>take a unhealthy you know, like pleasure in someone dying.

1310
01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:10.720
<v Speaker 3>And so in some sense both things can be true.

1311
01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:14.800
<v Speaker 3>That we can mourn for the fact that a person

1312
01:16:14.920 --> 01:16:17.399
<v Speaker 3>made in the image of God died, but also we

1313
01:16:17.479 --> 01:16:20.399
<v Speaker 3>can be happy that God's justice was manifested in that

1314
01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:23.199
<v Speaker 3>a wicked person is no longer able to exert wickedness.

1315
01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:28.199
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense, and

1316
01:16:28.199 --> 01:16:29.760
<v Speaker 15>I will probably jump back going on like a month

1317
01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:30.079
<v Speaker 15>or two.

1318
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:35.159
<v Speaker 3>Those are good questions, man, what You're welcome. You're welcome anytime.

1319
01:16:35.800 --> 01:16:41.600
<v Speaker 3>Bible Guy's dude, Yeah, what's up?

1320
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:42.439
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1321
01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:46.920
<v Speaker 11>Okay, So I have two questions. One of them is

1322
01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:48.720
<v Speaker 11>kind of related to the JQ.

1323
01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:50.159
<v Speaker 10>I don't know if we want to get into that

1324
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:50.439
<v Speaker 10>or not.

1325
01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm on YouTube, so we got to be kind

1326
01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:57.319
<v Speaker 3>of we're gonna we're gonna abide by the YouTube guidelines.

1327
01:16:58.000 --> 01:16:59.760
<v Speaker 10>Okay, I think I might.

1328
01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:02.319
<v Speaker 3>Be able to Does this relate to the topics or

1329
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:05.279
<v Speaker 3>you're telling geopolitics? We're not doing geopolitics tonight.

1330
01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:06.720
<v Speaker 10>Oh that's fine.

1331
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:07.720
<v Speaker 6>Then I have another one that.

1332
01:17:07.840 --> 01:17:10.880
<v Speaker 11>Is, so I know that Okay, so you used to

1333
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:14.319
<v Speaker 11>be Reformed and that he became Catholic and now Io.

1334
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:18.399
<v Speaker 10>So I'm just curious, do you no longer believe in

1335
01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:19.000
<v Speaker 10>like the.

1336
01:17:19.079 --> 01:17:22.840
<v Speaker 11>Reformed doctrines like federal headship and like.

1337
01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:24.840
<v Speaker 10>The Covenant of Works Covenant of grace.

1338
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:30.640
<v Speaker 3>So there is a sense in which individual men represent

1339
01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:34.399
<v Speaker 3>their families, and that is a biblical concept. I don't

1340
01:17:34.439 --> 01:17:36.920
<v Speaker 3>believe the Covenant of Works is a biblical concept. No,

1341
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:40.199
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't exist. And in fact, it would be either

1342
01:17:40.279 --> 01:17:43.159
<v Speaker 3>an historian or it would be a position of created

1343
01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:47.199
<v Speaker 3>grace to say that Jesus merited the status that he had.

1344
01:17:47.640 --> 01:17:49.600
<v Speaker 3>He didn't have to merit the status he had because

1345
01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.680
<v Speaker 3>he was the son of God and a divine person

1346
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:57.000
<v Speaker 3>from all eternity, and so as soon as he was incarnate,

1347
01:17:57.439 --> 01:17:59.880
<v Speaker 3>he deified the human nature that he had. There was

1348
01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:04.239
<v Speaker 3>no fulfilling of this degree of like merits that he

1349
01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:06.680
<v Speaker 3>had to you know, pay off God the Father. That's

1350
01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:09.279
<v Speaker 3>also anti trinitarian to say that there's a payment between

1351
01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:11.960
<v Speaker 3>one divine person and another, and it's actually part and

1352
01:18:12.039 --> 01:18:14.880
<v Speaker 3>parcel of the Calvinist and Lutheran in a classical Reformation

1353
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.800
<v Speaker 3>doctrine that the son was damned on the cross, which

1354
01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:19.399
<v Speaker 3>is anti Trinitarian.

1355
01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:25.600
<v Speaker 11>Okay, and then what Okay, I'm kind of confused about

1356
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:28.560
<v Speaker 11>it because I've been like reformed for a while and

1357
01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:31.640
<v Speaker 11>I'm starting to see some problems with their views of

1358
01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:35.439
<v Speaker 11>this stuff. So I'm just curious, what is the Eastern

1359
01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:37.279
<v Speaker 11>And I've watched some of your videos, so I know.

1360
01:18:37.279 --> 01:18:37.760
<v Speaker 10>A little bit.

1361
01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:42.800
<v Speaker 11>But do you guys believe infants receive like the effect

1362
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:45.399
<v Speaker 11>of original sin or also the guilt.

1363
01:18:46.039 --> 01:18:48.159
<v Speaker 3>I was not believe in inherited guilt, and in fact,

1364
01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:51.039
<v Speaker 3>no one in the world believes in inherited guilt except

1365
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:55.520
<v Speaker 3>for Calvinists and maybe Lutheran's, so that's no other religion.

1366
01:18:56.000 --> 01:18:57.239
<v Speaker 3>Rom mcalleys don't even believe in it.

1367
01:18:58.399 --> 01:19:01.000
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, that's crazy. I can't it around it. It's like

1368
01:19:01.399 --> 01:19:04.119
<v Speaker 10>it's pulling me and I don't know. I'm just trying to.

1369
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Figure this out.

1370
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:06.720
<v Speaker 10>But I've noticed, like.

1371
01:19:08.479 --> 01:19:12.479
<v Speaker 11>Like even the Baptists are quoting like some Eastern Orthodox

1372
01:19:12.600 --> 01:19:16.119
<v Speaker 11>Church fathers because there's some Baptists that don't believe in

1373
01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:17.119
<v Speaker 11>inherited guilt too.

1374
01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:20.079
<v Speaker 3>So well, I mean the the scriptures make it very

1375
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:22.359
<v Speaker 3>clear that you're not guilty for the sins of your

1376
01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:26.119
<v Speaker 3>father's right. Ezekiel says that, so how do we reconcile

1377
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:29.880
<v Speaker 3>that with the passages that people think teach inherit to guilt,

1378
01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:32.399
<v Speaker 3>like Romans five. Well, if you look at, for example,

1379
01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:37.840
<v Speaker 3>Mayandorff's critique of Augustine's take on Romans five, Augustine was

1380
01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:40.760
<v Speaker 3>the first person to think that Romans five taught inherited

1381
01:19:40.800 --> 01:19:43.159
<v Speaker 3>guilt because Augustine thought that we are all in Adam

1382
01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:45.520
<v Speaker 3>as in an archetype, and so because we were quote

1383
01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:48.159
<v Speaker 3>in Adam as in an archetype, when Adam sinned, we

1384
01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:50.960
<v Speaker 3>are also therefore guilty of adam sinn. But that's not

1385
01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:53.239
<v Speaker 3>actually what past the passage in Romans five says. It

1386
01:19:53.319 --> 01:19:57.680
<v Speaker 3>actually says that because Adam sinned, all will sin. It

1387
01:19:57.720 --> 01:20:00.159
<v Speaker 3>does not say they all sin in him. It's is

1388
01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:02.600
<v Speaker 3>because we are in him, we will sin. In other words,

1389
01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:04.399
<v Speaker 3>we will eventually get to a point in our lives

1390
01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:08.800
<v Speaker 3>where we commit an actual sin. That's why James says

1391
01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:12.840
<v Speaker 3>that you're not guilty until you consent to the desire.

1392
01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:16.039
<v Speaker 3>James says, the desire when it's consented to, when it

1393
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:19.600
<v Speaker 3>gives birth, it gives birth to sin. But if James

1394
01:20:19.720 --> 01:20:23.680
<v Speaker 3>was teaching what inherited guilt teachers say, James would say

1395
01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:26.159
<v Speaker 3>the desire itself is the sin. But he doesn't say that.

1396
01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:30.880
<v Speaker 10>Okay, yeah, sure, And I know you had a video.

1397
01:20:30.920 --> 01:20:33.399
<v Speaker 11>I've been watching it a few times about like Calvinism

1398
01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:34.239
<v Speaker 11>and original sin.

1399
01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:36.680
<v Speaker 10>So I'll just kind of try to keep going through that.

1400
01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:39.239
<v Speaker 3>I've got a multiple if you go to my clips channel,

1401
01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:44.439
<v Speaker 3>Jay Dyer Livestreams and Absurdities, I've got two multi hour

1402
01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:49.279
<v Speaker 3>lectures about Calvinism and Tulip. I've got a whole lecture

1403
01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:53.960
<v Speaker 3>on cotails channel about Calvinism and Tulip. I've got multiple

1404
01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:56.720
<v Speaker 3>lectures on my I mean, I've got out the wazoo

1405
01:20:57.039 --> 01:20:57.760
<v Speaker 3>on this. Yeah.

1406
01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:01.640
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, And I guess last question, and I'll ask, is

1407
01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:07.760
<v Speaker 11>is there a church father that like specifically talks about

1408
01:21:08.399 --> 01:21:12.239
<v Speaker 11>how we can receive like the effects of Adam's sin, but.

1409
01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:13.000
<v Speaker 10>Not the guilt.

1410
01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:16.279
<v Speaker 11>You know, where they really specifically talk about not inheriting

1411
01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:16.760
<v Speaker 11>as guilt.

1412
01:21:17.960 --> 01:21:20.039
<v Speaker 3>I would say any church father that talks about it

1413
01:21:20.119 --> 01:21:23.000
<v Speaker 3>before Augustine or any church father in the East, none

1414
01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:25.439
<v Speaker 3>of them teach inherited guilt. Augustine is the first to

1415
01:21:25.520 --> 01:21:25.680
<v Speaker 3>do that.

1416
01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:29.439
<v Speaker 10>Okay, all right, well cool, well, thank you, I appreciate it.

1417
01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:32.439
<v Speaker 3>So I would just look up like in Against Heresies

1418
01:21:32.720 --> 01:21:37.199
<v Speaker 3>right where perhaps when he executes Romans five, you could

1419
01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:42.960
<v Speaker 3>look up Chris system on Romans five. I mean, there's

1420
01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:47.439
<v Speaker 3>a whole passage from Saint Photius where he's critiquing the

1421
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:52.000
<v Speaker 3>Augustinian position that infants have inherited guilt. Just look up

1422
01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Photius Augustine, Romans five and you should get the Orthodox

1423
01:21:55.880 --> 01:22:04.159
<v Speaker 3>Ethos website that has an article on that. Marco, Hey, jay,

1424
01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:05.680
<v Speaker 3>but thank you so much for taking my call.

1425
01:22:06.399 --> 01:22:07.960
<v Speaker 6>I have a quod question. Is there kind of a

1426
01:22:08.079 --> 01:22:08.600
<v Speaker 6>reason why?

1427
01:22:08.800 --> 01:22:10.840
<v Speaker 10>Like there's one sort of verse in the Corona.

1428
01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:11.439
<v Speaker 5>It's very kind of.

1429
01:22:11.479 --> 01:22:13.640
<v Speaker 28>Damning, and it basically says something along the lines of

1430
01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:17.279
<v Speaker 28>make God kill me if I'm not like a true

1431
01:22:17.319 --> 01:22:19.319
<v Speaker 28>prophet or whatever like slice the a order. And then

1432
01:22:19.319 --> 01:22:22.000
<v Speaker 28>there's also like hydiez I talk about Mohammad when he dies,

1433
01:22:22.479 --> 01:22:24.000
<v Speaker 28>like have of the feeling about I think is a

1434
01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:25.119
<v Speaker 28>ord being ripped.

1435
01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:25.520
<v Speaker 4>Out or something like that?

1436
01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:27.079
<v Speaker 10>Is there kind of a reason why that's not brought

1437
01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:27.840
<v Speaker 10>up into bates more?

1438
01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:33.960
<v Speaker 3>I've forgot mentioned a couple of times. What what what

1439
01:22:34.119 --> 01:22:36.159
<v Speaker 3>do you think is important about that to bring.

1440
01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:39.239
<v Speaker 28>Up well, because it basically inside the Qurana basically was

1441
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:41.920
<v Speaker 28>that this is a falsification of Mohamad's prophethood if it

1442
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:44.680
<v Speaker 28>were to happen, and then later in the Hidisas thatth

1443
01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:47.359
<v Speaker 28>that it actually happens. So it basically it's almost the

1444
01:22:47.439 --> 01:22:49.520
<v Speaker 28>kna be predicting Mahomet's falsification.

1445
01:22:52.439 --> 01:22:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe I should be brought up more.

1446
01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:56.039
<v Speaker 28>I just it's just kind of a thing that I

1447
01:22:56.159 --> 01:22:58.239
<v Speaker 28>was thinking right too. And then another thing too that's

1448
01:22:58.279 --> 01:22:59.840
<v Speaker 28>kind of funny is I don't know what your thoughts

1449
01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:01.640
<v Speaker 28>are a star too. But I think I noticed is

1450
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:04.479
<v Speaker 28>that whenever they critique the writing of the Gospels as

1451
01:23:04.560 --> 01:23:08.560
<v Speaker 28>being later, it seems to me extremely unjustified to the

1452
01:23:08.600 --> 01:23:10.600
<v Speaker 28>fact that if you look when most are written, they're

1453
01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:11.560
<v Speaker 28>written like over.

1454
01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:13.399
<v Speaker 6>Two hundred years later after Muhammad.

1455
01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:16.319
<v Speaker 28>So how can they critique the Gospels for being written

1456
01:23:16.520 --> 01:23:17.960
<v Speaker 28>like sixty seven years later.

1457
01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:20.520
<v Speaker 14>When the Haydees explaining what Muhammad hads.

1458
01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:22.600
<v Speaker 28>Or what he says or supporting the Kuran, we're written

1459
01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:23.800
<v Speaker 28>over two hundred years later.

1460
01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:25.479
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, Yeah, that's a great point.

1461
01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:28.439
<v Speaker 28>And so if you don't mind me asking, I just

1462
01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:30.680
<v Speaker 28>asking picking your brain.

1463
01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:32.880
<v Speaker 6>So one thing is this is slightly more on the

1464
01:23:32.960 --> 01:23:33.600
<v Speaker 6>debate's side.

1465
01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:35.880
<v Speaker 28>You said you would be like kind of more on

1466
01:23:35.960 --> 01:23:39.960
<v Speaker 28>the young Earth creation side. So I assume it probably

1467
01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:42.279
<v Speaker 28>would come from more like a philosophical thing, because how.

1468
01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:43.399
<v Speaker 6>Would you respond to the claim.

1469
01:23:43.439 --> 01:23:46.439
<v Speaker 28>But like, for example, we can see things that are

1470
01:23:46.479 --> 01:23:47.720
<v Speaker 28>over eight thousand light years.

1471
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:53.479
<v Speaker 3>Away, Well, it's assuming that that traveled. Uh you know

1472
01:23:54.079 --> 01:23:56.359
<v Speaker 3>that it wasn't that the light, that the universe wasn't

1473
01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:58.880
<v Speaker 3>created with the light already quote being here.

1474
01:23:59.800 --> 01:24:00.720
<v Speaker 6>Okay, gotcha.

1475
01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:02.439
<v Speaker 28>And like what about when it comes to things like

1476
01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:04.880
<v Speaker 28>carbon dating, So it's like I could carbon date things

1477
01:24:04.920 --> 01:24:07.000
<v Speaker 28>that are, for example, older than eight thousand years.

1478
01:24:07.279 --> 01:24:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, there's also a lot of critiques of carbon

1479
01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:13.159
<v Speaker 3>dating being unreliable, and on top of that, in my understanding,

1480
01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:17.039
<v Speaker 3>carbon dating also assumes the thing in question that for example,

1481
01:24:17.159 --> 01:24:21.119
<v Speaker 3>it takes these millions of years for this radioactive decay

1482
01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:23.399
<v Speaker 3>to happen. So that would be my critique.

1483
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.439
<v Speaker 28>So that fills love with soilich from my surety, those

1484
01:24:26.479 --> 01:24:27.560
<v Speaker 28>love with a particular.

1485
01:24:27.239 --> 01:24:29.680
<v Speaker 6>Basically be the justification of circular.

1486
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:33.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's assuming the lengthy time that would be the

1487
01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:37.199
<v Speaker 3>thing in question from my vantage point, Okay.

1488
01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:39.119
<v Speaker 28>Thank you, and if you don't, might have one another

1489
01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:41.479
<v Speaker 28>question as well. So when it comes to like, what's

1490
01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:43.960
<v Speaker 28>you ever debate somebody like Fuin Shapiro or Charlie Kirk

1491
01:24:44.119 --> 01:24:45.479
<v Speaker 28>kind of more regards to when it comes.

1492
01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:49.439
<v Speaker 3>Like faith, Yeah, I in fact I have multiple times

1493
01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:52.439
<v Speaker 3>asked Ben Shapiro to debate, and one of the one

1494
01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:54.920
<v Speaker 3>of the tweets got I don't know a thousand likes

1495
01:24:54.960 --> 01:24:56.239
<v Speaker 3>and I don't remember how many shares.

1496
01:24:56.439 --> 01:24:59.399
<v Speaker 28>So yeah, because when when Rogan did the thing with

1497
01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:01.720
<v Speaker 28>Wes if I watched her last year, we went over that,

1498
01:25:01.880 --> 01:25:03.319
<v Speaker 28>I was actually one of the firstes to comment, and

1499
01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:04.039
<v Speaker 28>I was like, they can have.

1500
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:06.880
<v Speaker 6>Because he does a really good.

1501
01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:08.560
<v Speaker 28>Because I think West is obviously like you know, he's

1502
01:25:08.720 --> 01:25:11.199
<v Speaker 28>like apologist is kind of the wrong I guess what

1503
01:25:11.239 --> 01:25:11.600
<v Speaker 28>do you call it?

1504
01:25:11.680 --> 01:25:13.439
<v Speaker 10>It's like the wrong area expertise.

1505
01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:15.399
<v Speaker 6>Sure, yeah, yeah, focus as you say.

1506
01:25:16.119 --> 01:25:17.720
<v Speaker 28>So, I think it's kind of cool because I think,

1507
01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:20.039
<v Speaker 28>like I actually a couple of months ago, I was like,

1508
01:25:20.479 --> 01:25:22.800
<v Speaker 28>because I'm a Roman Castlic and I was trained to Orthodoxy,

1509
01:25:23.479 --> 01:25:25.239
<v Speaker 28>your stuff has definitely been very appealing and.

1510
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:25.640
<v Speaker 12>Stuff like that.

1511
01:25:25.720 --> 01:25:27.199
<v Speaker 28>And so when you mentioned the things from body, and

1512
01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:29.039
<v Speaker 28>one and two started looking at that and I was like, okay,

1513
01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:31.640
<v Speaker 28>so I started going to somewhere to bind lurgies and

1514
01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:34.319
<v Speaker 28>it's it's been very that's good.

1515
01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:34.560
<v Speaker 6>Many.

1516
01:25:34.640 --> 01:25:37.520
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate that. And thanks for mentioning my name and

1517
01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:40.039
<v Speaker 3>the do you mentioned on comments or something?

1518
01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:40.920
<v Speaker 12>Yeah?

1519
01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:42.960
<v Speaker 28>Yeah, I mean I just commented a pumpish of tags.

1520
01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:45.720
<v Speaker 28>But but now I just imagine one to say basically,

1521
01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:46.560
<v Speaker 28>thank you for your service.

1522
01:25:47.199 --> 01:25:47.479
<v Speaker 6>Thank you.

1523
01:25:47.720 --> 01:25:50.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I would love to, you know, go on there

1524
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:53.119
<v Speaker 3>and do you have a you know, some kind of

1525
01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:55.840
<v Speaker 3>a representation, you know, at the level of a rogan

1526
01:25:56.000 --> 01:26:00.479
<v Speaker 3>that's not you know, Baptist type stuff like what I

1527
01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:02.920
<v Speaker 3>think I think west Up's a Baptist nail? What's up?

1528
01:26:17.279 --> 01:26:22.920
<v Speaker 3>You want to unmute? Nael? Do you want to unmute?

1529
01:26:23.399 --> 01:26:29.600
<v Speaker 3>I guess we lost him. Confused, by the way, if

1530
01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:31.279
<v Speaker 3>you want to hop on the stream, if you liked

1531
01:26:31.439 --> 01:26:34.520
<v Speaker 3>the scream the stream, if you like to debate, hit

1532
01:26:34.640 --> 01:26:37.319
<v Speaker 3>the request to speak and I'll bring you up. Confused.

1533
01:26:39.159 --> 01:26:43.520
<v Speaker 29>Hey, Jay, So I wanted to ask have you looked

1534
01:26:43.520 --> 01:26:44.520
<v Speaker 29>at the channel harmony?

1535
01:26:46.279 --> 01:26:47.600
<v Speaker 6>Are you familiar with that channel?

1536
01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:48.600
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

1537
01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:53.560
<v Speaker 29>He's an orthodox YouTuber, but he does like the story

1538
01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:56.560
<v Speaker 29>kind of. He tells stories of different saints and then

1539
01:26:56.600 --> 01:27:03.840
<v Speaker 29>he tells stories of different theologies. Do you know so

1540
01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:06.279
<v Speaker 29>I want to make a YouTube channel like his? Do

1541
01:27:06.359 --> 01:27:10.600
<v Speaker 29>you have any resources like books? Because I know you

1542
01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:13.800
<v Speaker 29>have a video about specific books to read, but do

1543
01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:19.439
<v Speaker 29>you have any like, let's say, beautiful stories. Books are

1544
01:27:19.439 --> 01:27:21.920
<v Speaker 29>about beautiful stories that you know of that you can

1545
01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:23.840
<v Speaker 29>share so I can so I can like read.

1546
01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:25.279
<v Speaker 6>Them and then make make a video about it.

1547
01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:29.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, like lives that when you say beautiful stories,

1548
01:27:29.319 --> 01:27:30.800
<v Speaker 3>what do you mean like lives the Saints or what

1549
01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:31.640
<v Speaker 3>are you talking about?

1550
01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:34.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah? Yeah, it could be Lives of the Saints. The

1551
01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:38.279
<v Speaker 6>YouTube the YouTube channel harmony. He has done one about like.

1552
01:27:38.319 --> 01:27:39.640
<v Speaker 4>The Youth of the Apocalypse.

1553
01:27:41.119 --> 01:27:43.880
<v Speaker 3>Let me see what other ones Youth of the Apocalypse

1554
01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:45.600
<v Speaker 3>or Truth of the Apocalypse.

1555
01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:49.840
<v Speaker 6>The Truth of the Apocalypse. He did one about Saint Pasius.

1556
01:27:50.399 --> 01:27:51.199
<v Speaker 10>He did one.

1557
01:27:52.960 --> 01:27:54.600
<v Speaker 3>What is a truth Apocalypse?

1558
01:27:54.720 --> 01:27:54.840
<v Speaker 12>Is it?

1559
01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:55.680
<v Speaker 3>Is that a story?

1560
01:27:56.800 --> 01:27:57.600
<v Speaker 12>It's a it's a book?

1561
01:27:58.319 --> 01:27:59.760
<v Speaker 6>Okay, I think it's a book.

1562
01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:01.840
<v Speaker 4>And then she like adapted it to a video.

1563
01:28:02.119 --> 01:28:05.520
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, I've got it pulled up. I'm not familiar

1564
01:28:05.560 --> 01:28:07.119
<v Speaker 3>with this, but I'm looking at it.

1565
01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:09.880
<v Speaker 29>His videos are beautiful if you want to listen to

1566
01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:12.279
<v Speaker 29>them or watch them, but I don't know.

1567
01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:13.720
<v Speaker 4>I can come back later on.

1568
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:17.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, it looks like it looks like he

1569
01:28:17.520 --> 01:28:20.920
<v Speaker 3>puts a lot of time into it looks really well done. Unfortunately,

1570
01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:24.840
<v Speaker 3>I don't have any good recommendations on like stories or

1571
01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:32.600
<v Speaker 3>something like that. Okay, all, yeah, I appreciate it. It

1572
01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:37.680
<v Speaker 3>does sound like an appropriate type of way to reach people, though,

1573
01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:42.000
<v Speaker 3>I think, you know, the way we talk about stuff

1574
01:28:42.039 --> 01:28:44.039
<v Speaker 3>and do stuff, you know, it appeals to a certain

1575
01:28:44.159 --> 01:28:48.399
<v Speaker 3>kind of demographic and niche and it's not for everybody,

1576
01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:50.960
<v Speaker 3>and that's fine that not everybody has to be interested

1577
01:28:51.039 --> 01:28:55.000
<v Speaker 3>in philosophy and argumentation and this kind of stuff. It's it's,

1578
01:28:55.199 --> 01:28:58.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's for a certain special type of low boy,

1579
01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:02.079
<v Speaker 3>fast boy. David Know, we did that one, Koshaba from

1580
01:29:02.199 --> 01:29:04.000
<v Speaker 3>New Zealand, thank you so much. I think I missed

1581
01:29:04.039 --> 01:29:06.079
<v Speaker 3>somebody else's super chat. Hold on, I forgot to read

1582
01:29:06.159 --> 01:29:14.479
<v Speaker 3>this one. Harry Sarpano's ten dollars Why are Muslims evangelized? No,

1583
01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:17.319
<v Speaker 3>we did that one. Excuse me, we did that one, Cody, No,

1584
01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:24.439
<v Speaker 3>we did that. Here we go, sincere hypocrite. Five dollars

1585
01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:27.800
<v Speaker 3>if Allah's word is incorruptible, and the Torah and the

1586
01:29:28.039 --> 01:29:30.239
<v Speaker 3>ngail are Allah's word. Then aren't the torreh and the

1587
01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:31.479
<v Speaker 3>jail not corrupt?

1588
01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:31.800
<v Speaker 6>Yes?

1589
01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:34.840
<v Speaker 3>And one of the hadiths, of course, that Shamun has

1590
01:29:34.880 --> 01:29:37.399
<v Speaker 3>pointed out and his old articles actually backs up that

1591
01:29:37.560 --> 01:29:44.279
<v Speaker 3>very view exactly. Eric Zee five bucks was Jesus meaning

1592
01:29:44.319 --> 01:29:46.760
<v Speaker 3>to create a way to connect to God without church.

1593
01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:50.359
<v Speaker 3>Some chick in the chat as talking smack no, because

1594
01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:53.319
<v Speaker 3>he set up a church, right, Matthew is sixteen eighteen,

1595
01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:56.520
<v Speaker 3>Matthew eighteen Right, The church is the kingdom that he's

1596
01:29:56.560 --> 01:30:00.760
<v Speaker 3>setting up. The apostles are the princes of the new Jerusalem,

1597
01:30:02.319 --> 01:30:08.479
<v Speaker 3>Jojo five dollars. The Quran becomes the criterion over the prior. Well,

1598
01:30:08.560 --> 01:30:11.279
<v Speaker 3>that's what they do in their mistake or in their

1599
01:30:11.520 --> 01:30:15.079
<v Speaker 3>apologetic But then the Quran itself says that the prior

1600
01:30:15.119 --> 01:30:20.119
<v Speaker 3>should judge the Koran on the prior. Isn't Allah affirming

1601
01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:20.600
<v Speaker 3>a circle?

1602
01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:20.840
<v Speaker 6>Yes?

1603
01:30:20.920 --> 01:30:22.800
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, This is what I said in the debate with

1604
01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:34.720
<v Speaker 3>Daniel Haikikitch. You seems like the reconciliation is through a circle,

1605
01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:38.920
<v Speaker 3>and that isn't one. It is a circle because the

1606
01:30:39.039 --> 01:30:42.239
<v Speaker 3>Quran is supposed to be confirmed by what came before,

1607
01:30:42.680 --> 01:30:45.000
<v Speaker 3>but what came before contradicts it, and so you throw

1608
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:49.119
<v Speaker 3>out what's in what came before by the what the

1609
01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Kuran says. So it's like it's very simple. It's like,

1610
01:30:53.560 --> 01:30:56.520
<v Speaker 3>what does Joseph Smith do? I have the New revelation

1611
01:30:56.760 --> 01:31:01.159
<v Speaker 3>and it's it's consistent with the Chris revelation that came before.

1612
01:31:01.359 --> 01:31:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Well wait a minute, Joseph, the Christian revelation that came

1613
01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:07.359
<v Speaker 3>before is not consistent with your new Book of Mormon,

1614
01:31:07.640 --> 01:31:11.199
<v Speaker 3>and blah blah blah. Oh, that's because it's corrupted. How

1615
01:31:11.239 --> 01:31:13.720
<v Speaker 3>do I know where it's corrupted everywhere that it doesn't

1616
01:31:13.720 --> 01:31:15.359
<v Speaker 3>agree with the Book of Mormon. I mean, this is

1617
01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:19.159
<v Speaker 3>not that hard JV Three two dollars. Don't forget the

1618
01:31:19.880 --> 01:31:24.159
<v Speaker 3>varying creation timelines you told me in the Book of Mormon.

1619
01:31:24.199 --> 01:31:28.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean the in the Quran. Stephen Pagan, Stephen Pagan

1620
01:31:28.960 --> 01:31:33.079
<v Speaker 3>five bucks. Is there a Macedonian Orthodox Church? There is

1621
01:31:33.199 --> 01:31:38.319
<v Speaker 3>one near me, and I'm learning leaning Orthodox. Are they

1622
01:31:38.640 --> 01:31:39.600
<v Speaker 3>seen as legitimate?

1623
01:31:39.920 --> 01:31:40.359
<v Speaker 4>I think so.

1624
01:31:40.439 --> 01:31:41.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they're in any skil