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Speaker 1: You may think the main things to you, But I'm

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just You're the big daddy.

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Speaker 2: I'm your father, big Yu, I'm your father, big guy.

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Clean up to.

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Speaker 1: Tomato, tyrannical ranger.

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Speaker 2: You're so high you're candy even tom Are you trumping?

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You're so high you candy even time? Are you trunking?

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Speaker 3: What is a tyrannical rainer?

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Speaker 4: What is a tyrannical rainer? What is a tyrannical rainer?

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Speaker 2: What is a tyrannical rainer?

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Speaker 5: You're so high, you candy?

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Speaker 2: Are you drunking?

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Speaker 4: Josh?

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Speaker 6: You came?

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Speaker 7: Are you drumming?

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Speaker 8: You may think of being mean to you, But I'm

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just a debate daddy.

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Speaker 9: I'm your father figure, I'm your father.

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Speaker 1: Figures nical ranger.

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Speaker 2: Josh, you're kidd Are you drunk?

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Speaker 4: Josh your kid?

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Speaker 2: Are you drunking?

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Speaker 10: What is it alannical rainer?

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Speaker 11: What is it?

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Speaker 1: Anical rainer? What is it's irannical rainer? What is it

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irannical rainer?

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Speaker 5: Yr you came?

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Speaker 12: Are you drunk?

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Speaker 9: You're so high you can't even talk?

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Speaker 13: Are you drunk now?

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Speaker 5: You're so high you can't even talk?

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Speaker 14: Are you drunken?

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Speaker 12: Now?

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Speaker 15: If you're sharing a hotel room with friends. You're also

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sharing a bathroom, mad.

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Speaker 3: Still a monkey?

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Speaker 8: Climb up on a tree?

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Speaker 6: What you do up there? Why are you scared?

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Speaker 8: Why are you running in from every debate that you count?

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Now you learn from Andrew, you do and from me?

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Speaker 9: Mad deal of monkey.

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Speaker 8: You like them female monkeys with them bananas between their trees.

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Hang down up that dow brown, Maddil monkey. What you're

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doing to me, Manduel monkey? What you're doing to me, madam?

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Speaker 16: What you're doing with me?

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Speaker 8: May What you're doing with me, Madla monkey? What you're

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doing with me, Madila monkey.

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Speaker 6: What you're doing to me?

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Speaker 8: Make what you're doing with me, Madla monket?

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Speaker 10: What you're doing to.

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Speaker 9: Me, Madala monkey?

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Speaker 8: What you're doing to me, Madala monkey?

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Speaker 6: What you doing to me?

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Speaker 8: Madam? Mokay, what you're doing to me.

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Speaker 6: Monkey?

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Speaker 13: What you doing to me Mandela monkey? Mock mad mokey.

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Speaker 17: Oh it was amazing.

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Speaker 5: I love it the much.

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Speaker 17: Thank you, guys.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to Amid the Ruins fourteen fifty three, coming

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back from a long hiatus with those bangers that he

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made through AI.

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Speaker 18: It's that time again, late night debate. It's been a

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long time since we had a late night debate. Sometimes

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late night debates result in rabies infested feral people calling in.

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Sometimes we get tyrannical rainers. Did you like the tyrannical

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rainer song?

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Speaker 3: I vibed with it? What even is a tyrannical rainer? Exactly?

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The heck goes up wine mom even talking about you're

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tyrannical rainer and you're arrogant as beep. Anyway, Matt Dlamlca,

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what's done?

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Speaker 12: Man?

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Speaker 3: I like that blues version of Matt Dolomocky. That was crazy.

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All right, we're gonna open it up pretty soon, and

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that's because today was an interesting series of events. I

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didn't actually plan to do an open debate, but when

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I saw this goober child, and I will call him

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a goober child. He is the firstborn son of goober

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where's he at? Tyson Hockley. Now, this is the dude

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that called into Sam Shimun some months back and they

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had a conversation where Sam explained why Islam was not

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the most sensible religion. And it didn't last too long.

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I think it was about a fifteen to twenty minute discussion.

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Sam Shimun presented some of the more obvious issues that

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are pretty well known in Islam, and Tyson said, well,

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you know what, I'm still leaning towards Islam. It makes

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the most sense, although religion feels weird to me, and

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then he says, follow me on my journey. Now, this

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was a post intending to get audience and to get traction,

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and if you go over to his page, it's all

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sucking up to Sneako and the tates he wants to

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be sneak O more than anything else. And he looks

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kind of like a little bit of a potato head boy,

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if you know what I mean. He looks like he's

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a little bit of a down potato syndrome.

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Speaker 6: Boy.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to tell because his face is a little

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weird looking, but and he talks like he's got I

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don't know, nasal issues, but maybe that's the potato syndrome

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that he has. Anyway, he's a Canadian potatium. And he

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thinks that Islam is just so cool because it's based

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and it's like you got Bugatti and all this kind

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of stuff that comes with Islam, with little to no

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knowledge of actually what Islam is about. And he said,

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I don't have the knowledge set to debate you, although

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he's ready to call me out When I posted a

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video saying that Islam makes no sense? What was his reply?

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As with every sort of weak willed, just effeminate man

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ish person out there, he immediately goes for the virtue,

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signaling that aren't you the guy who was being racist

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to Muslim Lantern? Being racist? First of all, what does

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that even mean to be racist to someone? And what

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he's referring to is me impersonating Muslim Lantern's voice. So

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these z gen Z Canadian children are so brainwashed they

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think an impersonation is racism. And of course he was

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so proud that the Muslims came to his rescue to

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like and to share this for him that he said,

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I got quote ratioed. However, all of the comments are

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actually blasting making fun of him.

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Speaker 6: So even though he did.

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Speaker 3: Get Muslim ratio help here, every comment is just savaging

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him all the way down about how silly he is.

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And this is not a serious person obviously. If I

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come over here to his page, it's all about how

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he wants to be. Sneak O Sneko will follow me

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if I get twenty thousand on X. Tristan Tate told

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me soon that he might come on my podcast. So

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I feel sorry for this. I mean, he looks like

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he looks like any white woman in the WNBA. He's

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got a face of any WNBA woman that's white, and

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so he's got some kind of down potato syndrome going on.

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I feel sorry for the boy. I mean literally, look,

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he looks like a damn hobbit over here. He's a Canadian,

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and why he was just to the moon because I

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mentioned him today. In fact, he had to make a

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video and guess what's in his video doubling down that

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I'm racist and that I was mean to the absolute

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snake who edited the videos because he did so bad

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in the debate. In other words, the debate that's so

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bad that you can't find it on Rumble and Sneako's

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channel anymore. That debate that I was so terrible at,

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which has gone from Rumble as far as I can tell,

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that Muslim Lantern had to edit out of context. I

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was so mean, and so all these people have is

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nothing basically anyway, So this person is not a serious person.

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He also says in the video that when he went

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to a Muslim scholar, the Muslim scholar proved that Sam

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Schamun was lying in his critiques of Islam. M sure, yeah, right,

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who believes that? So potato Canadian boy, I don't think

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we'll come to debate. I've asked it. I asked them

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multiple times to come tonight to defend Islam. And the

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weirdos in his chat were their own special kind of

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slow boy. In fact, one of them was a perennialist hermeticist,

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so not Muslim and not Christian, but was cheering on

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and championing the victory of Islam over the West. You

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can't make this up. These people are so stupid or

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their bots or FEDS or something that they're cheering on

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the destruction of their own civilization with this stupid cult

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that is literally only like you have to be under

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one hundred IQ to fall for Islam being charitable. It's

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so dumb. And to remind you of how dumb it is,

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I thought this was a good brief video for example,

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that David Wood. David would respied, replied to Hamza, who

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himself is another level of goober. And I mean, I

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just want you to listen to some of this video.

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We don't have to do all of it. We're just

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we're just gonna be a few minutes of it to

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see the obvious nonsense when it comes to something obvious

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like the Islamic dilemma and the basic points that are

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reiterated for the thousand time. Remember we did a whole

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six hour livestream where we did an experiment to see

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if any of the Muslim callers could restate or understand

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the hypothetical situation. If you remember, none of them could

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for six hours straight of Muslim callers, they were incapable

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of understanding a hypothetical. And so this religion then kind

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of like Mormonism for white people. It's like Mormonism is

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like prairie Islam, prairie muffin Islam. Like you have to

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be a special kind of stupid to believe and to

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not understand the Islamic dilemma and how obvious and basic

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it is.

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Speaker 6: And so what do they do?

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Speaker 3: Well, as you'll see here, Hamza for example, has a

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creative way to answer it, but the answer is actually

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dumber than the other attempts.

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Speaker 19: The shorts that's supposed to refute the Islamic dilemma. Let's

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watch Hamsa completely contradict his own God, his own prophet

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and his own books. Hamsa from Hamsa's den is the

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simone Biles of mental gymnastics. Let's take a look at

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his floor root Sine on the Islamic dilemma. The Islamic

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dilemma is an argument that can take many forms, but

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in its most basic form, it goes something like this.

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The Karan affirms the inspiration, preserve, and authority of the

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Jewish and Christian scriptures, but the Quran contradicts the Jewish

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and Christian scriptures on fundamental doctrines.

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Speaker 3: Now, there are only two possibilities here.

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Speaker 19: Either Jews and Christians have the inspired, preserved authoritative word of.

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Speaker 3: God, or we don't. It's one or the other.

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Speaker 19: On one horn of the dilemma, if we have the inspired,

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preserved authoritative word of God, Islam is false because Islam

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contradicts what we have. On the other horn of the dilemma,

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if we don't have the inspired, preserved, authoritative word of God,

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Islam is false because Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and

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authority of what we have. So if we have the

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reliable and authoritative word of God, Islam is false. If

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we don't have the reliable and authoritative word of God,

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Islam is false. Either way, Islam is false. Therefore Islam

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is false. How do da organdists respond to this air

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type argument the same way they respond to every argument

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smoke and mirrors. Hamzah posted a short that's supposed to

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refute the Islamic dilemma. Let's watch Hamza completely contradict his

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own God, his own prophet, and his own books.

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Speaker 14: My man here.

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Speaker 20: Yeah, he's claim that upon him I tested the veracity

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and the truthfulness of the ingeal cut.

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Speaker 19: I also claim that Muhammad affirmed the jail. In jail

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is the Arabic word for gospel. It's a transliteration of

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the Greek word yuangelian, meaning gospel. Muhammad affirmed the jail,

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so did Allah.

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Speaker 20: Upon him, I tested the veracity and the truthfulness of

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the ingeal cut, which he did, Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 19: Mohammad did attest the veracity and the truthfulness of the Angel,

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and so did Allah. We agree, Christians and Muslims agree

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on this, But our Dawa friends know all too well

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that the angel we have contradicts the Koran on Jesus, death, resurrection,

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and divine nature. So they're going to have to claim

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that the Angel is something we don't have.

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Speaker 14: This is then.

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Speaker 6: Testament.

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Speaker 3: What does the meaning of a jail?

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Speaker 6: What's the jail?

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Speaker 12: Good?

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Speaker 6: Question?

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Speaker 19: If it's not the Gospel that Christians have, because what

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we have contradicts the Koran, what is it?

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Speaker 21: What is the Islamic concept of So that's what I'm

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asking you.

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Speaker 6: You're the mussulim.

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Speaker 3: You tell me what's Islamic concept?

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Speaker 5: What is the book?

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Speaker 6: I explain?

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Speaker 9: I'm going to explain.

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Speaker 21: So the Quuran makes it clear the Engel is a

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book that was given to Jesus from God.

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Speaker 6: What does the Quran make clear?

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Speaker 21: So the Quan makes in Gel is a book that

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was given to Jesus.

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Speaker 3: Now keep in mind we saw a similar type of

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trek that doctor Khalil took in his debate with sam Shimoon,

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where doctor Khalil says something like, oh, well, you think

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Gospel is the New Testament of the message of Christ

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from the New Testiment the Apostles? No, No, in Ingeel

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is this unknown, lost, forgotten thing that the Quran is

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restoring or in some way preserving or bringing back. Now

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keep that in mind, because this is actually even dumber

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than the other answer from God?

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Speaker 19: What's the engel?

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Speaker 12: In Gel?

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Speaker 21: Is a book that was given to Jesus from God.

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One more time, in gel is a book that was

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given to Jesus from God.

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Speaker 19: The Engel is a book that was given to Jesus

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from God.

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Speaker 3: Now remember this doesn't exist. No one has this except

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some Muslims say, oh, there was a group of Christians,

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some sect at Medina who had this lost in jeal

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of Jesus. Of course, there's no evidence for this. It's

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just claims that they make up and things that they assert,

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And of course all of the Christians prior to this

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are not using that. Now otherword was we have the

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New Testament attacks that are being used from the time

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of the post Apostolic fathers all the way up through

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in Nicea, all the way up to the seventh century.

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That's contemporary with these events. So that's the definition that

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obviously is not what they're talking about.

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Speaker 19: They're going with and this idea is based on five

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verse forty six of the Quran, which we'll read in

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a few moments. But let's allow our Dawa friends to

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finish their point.

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Speaker 6: Are you a Christian?

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Speaker 9: Yes?

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Speaker 21: Do you believe Jesus received a book from God a

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lah called the Ingael?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 9: We agree with you.

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Speaker 3: What you don't believe in the Angel.

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Speaker 19: There you have it, folks. Muhammad and the Koran affirm

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the angel. But the Angel isn't what Christians have in

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the New Testament. Instead, it's a book given to Jesus

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from God. And we don't have a book given to

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Jesus from God. Hence we don't have the Angel.

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Speaker 3: We don't have it.

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Speaker 19: Christians have never had a book that was given to

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Jesus from God, so we've never had the Angel. Poor Christians,

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Dawa fans watch Hamsa's clip and say.

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Speaker 3: I'll hangdle it all and they don't even they're not

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even realizing how stupid this is, given with what the

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other statements in the Quran say about the torajeal, I mean,

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it's like, no, you understand what you've already done here.

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Speaker 19: Such a powerful response.

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Speaker 6: The Christians have been humiliated.

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Speaker 19: But there's a problem with Hamsu's claim that Christians don't

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have the Angel. Allah and Mohammed say very clearly that

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we do have the Angel. Consider a few passages. Sir

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A seven one fifty seven of the Qur'an refers to

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those who follow the messenger. Muslims believe the Messenger here

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is Mohammed. Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet,

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whom they find inscribed in the Torah and the Gospel

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that is with them. The Gospel here in Arabic is

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in Ingeeal. The Koran says that Jews and Christians find

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Mohammad inscribed in the Torah and the Gospel that are

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with us.

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Speaker 3: Now, how is this possible? If this mystical lost text

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that was given to Jesus, which is all preposterous, was

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no longer accent and no longer had Christians and Jews

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don't have it. This is super obvious and super dumb.

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Speaker 6: What's the angel? According to our Dawa friends in.

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Speaker 21: Jael is a book that was given to Jesus from God.

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Speaker 19: So if the angel is a book given to Jesus

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from God, and the Koran says that we find Mohammed

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inscribed in the Engael, that's with us. The Koran is

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claiming that we have a book that was given to

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Jesus from God. Right, Hamza and his friend say, we

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don't have the Engael. Allah says we do, and Hamsa's

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fans will believe him even when he contradicts a law

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isn't that amazing. Now we'll take a closer look at

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the verse that says the Angel is a book given

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to Jesus. But we'll also read the verse that comes

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right after it, sir A fiv Verses forty six and

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forty seven. And in their footsteps, we sent Jesus, son

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of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him,

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and we gave him the Gospel, wherein is a guidance

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and a light confirming the Torah that had come before him.

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As an a guidance and an exhortation to the reverend.

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Our Dawa friends insist that this means the Engel is

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a book given to Jesus from God.

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Speaker 3: But here's the next verse.

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Speaker 19: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God

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has sent down therein whosoever judges not by that which

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God has sent down, it is they who are iniquitous.

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Speaker 3: So you see the obvious issue here. Hopefully, if you

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have two brain cells that aren't completely destroyed by the

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nonsense that's out there, how could we judge what is

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with us if we don't have the Angel with us.

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You see, in other words, the passage, as we've cited

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many times, tells those who are hearing the new message

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from Mohammed to judge Muhammad's message by what came before,

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and even mentions the fact that the Gospel is in

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continuity with the Torah that came before it. So what's

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the explanation for this Islam is a copy paste religion

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which didn't understand the basic theology that came before in

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either Jewish revelation in the Torah or in Christian revelation

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in the Gospels and in theology. That's why the Bible

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has both the Old Testament and the New Testament in it,

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you see. But they don't understand that, and so they

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cribbed together this weird religion that is a fundamental contradiction

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that tells you to judge on the base of what

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came before. And then when you find the obvious contradictions

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with the new revelation of Muhammad with what came before,

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you're supposed to toss out anything that contradicts the Quran.

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But that principle contradicts judging by what came before the

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New revelation and the old revelation, that is the Bible.

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Deuteronmy thirteen Uterami eighteen Galatians one those passages all tell

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the believers to judge any new revelation based on what

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came before anyway, So this is a complete reputation of Islam.

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We'll go ahead and open it up. Shown. I'm mute, sorry, mat, Yeah,

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what's up?

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Speaker 5: Man?

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Speaker 4: Hey?

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Speaker 22: I listened to a lot of the YouTube stuff that

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you have.

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Speaker 3: I haven't.

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Speaker 22: I haven't signed up for your classes or anything. And

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Irvin Jensen Jensen is that right?

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Speaker 3: Who is that? I don't know who that is?

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Speaker 22: H Logo Logos Media. He has this thought thought wire

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thing that's pretty cool. If you've never heard of him,

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you really need to check that guy out.

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Speaker 6: Urban Jensen.

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Speaker 22: I thought people would know. Uh, but I do have

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a crit cool question for you, and this is kind

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of kind of related. I would really hope that.

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Speaker 3: And I know there's a lot of.

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Speaker 22: Bullshit going on between this, but I would really hope

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that you would have a conversation.

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Speaker 6: You don't have to have a debate, but a conversation.

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Speaker 22: With Haws from the infrared crew, because he does have

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some good things to say.

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Speaker 3: No, why would I waste my time with that? That's

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completely stupid?

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Speaker 10: All right, all right, why do I need?

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Speaker 3: What do you what's the other person.

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Speaker 22: Irving Jensen, I would assume that you would know him.

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Speaker 6: He wrote a book on like mushrooms or something or another.

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Speaker 3: Why would I know a person talking about mushrooms.

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Speaker 22: Because everything you say actually overlaps with what this guy

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is saying.

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Speaker 6: He's basically says that possible. Well, he's I would think

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you guys would be there.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm just I'm trying real hard not to

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be mean man.

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Speaker 6: So that's all good. That's all good.

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Speaker 3: I'm goodbye. They awful us. Yeah, I'm you.

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Speaker 6: Hey, Jay, Hi, do you hear me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I agree to talk to me.

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Speaker 12: I just want to say it, like time runs fast.

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I believe it was like five years ago. I was

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in your discord. Louis hooked me up at you, and

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I like, I think I prepared you for like what's

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it Rushet's to date, I gave like a lectures on

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heat and oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, I do remember that. Yeah, it's been

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several years.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm fine, still move Yeah, I just want to

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continue on where you started with like the Quran, because

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what when when when I gave the lectures to you.

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Speaker 6: It's funny.

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Speaker 12: One of the things I said to you was start

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Like Louis wanted me to like make his whole like

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higher critical attack on the Quran, but I didn't want

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to do it, and I said in my lecture, like,

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as Christians, we should always attack the Qur'an from the

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presupposition that we just we take it as it is

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and for the sake of argument, we accept. Okay, let's

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say for the sake of argument that Muhammad.

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Speaker 10: Really say this.

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Speaker 6: Let's say that every headief is true.

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Speaker 12: Let's not go into the whole higher criticism because that

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opens up a.

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Speaker 6: Can of worms.

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Speaker 3: It's I agree, Yeah, then they can say it.

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Speaker 12: Back to us. But this is a trap that Muslims

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always go into. They love to cite higher criticism against

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the Bible to us. And as you know, I'm an

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ex Muslim. When I was a Muslim reading higher critical

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00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,799
like critique of the New Testament, well it was like

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fifty sixty percent of my you know, preparation for attacking Christianity.

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And like, you know how like I believe it was

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like what it Sam Chebuno calls ironic, calls part erman

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00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:11,319
shaikh part erhman because of how Muslim cite.

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Speaker 6: And like.

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Speaker 12: You have refewed this I believe it was with like

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Muslim lamptern, and you do that because you're a philosopher.

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You do the very strong philosophical argument is that just

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like say, okay, you accept high criticism with our scripture,

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but you don't want to accept higher criticism of your scripture.

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You don't want to go you don't want to go

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into capril, say at Reynolds. But this is an abstract

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argument that the average Muslim just doesn't it's just stupid

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to understand this. He will just be like, well, our

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scripture is true and those false, So we can do that.

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That's why it's very important to really go into the

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finer points and the PRIs of positions and show just

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how it's not only inconsistent, their arguments against the Bible

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can actually constitute kuffer like disbelief from a Muslim perspective worldview.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's a great point. Could you give give

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an example.

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Speaker 12: That, yeah, yeah, because like I believe this was Ijos.

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I don't want to like die on his help, but

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I believe it was Ajos. It was a Muslim apologist

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to make this argument from its own mouth that the

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Gospels could not have been written by the apostles because

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they predict the destruction of the temple. Therefore they must

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have been written after year fifty, after the destruction of

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the temple.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course he's not going to apply that to

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the Quran.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 12: No, again, this is a atheist naturalist argument that they

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just like earlifts from port Erma, and they don't understand.

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You're a Muslim, You're supposed to believe in prophecy. You

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have to believe in the possibility of prophecy. If you

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deny the possibility that make prophecies and you're a caffeine,

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you're a disbeliever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That's a great point.

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Speaker 12: And the other augment is that this is I think

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more popular. I heard Jake make dis arguments. I heard

478
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,519
so many well on that.

479
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:20,079
Speaker 3: Point, though, I just want to stress before you go

480
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,119
into this other point that Jake makes, like this is

481
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,759
why it helps to understand the basic principles of logic

482
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,880
and debate, because everybody who knows those things would know

483
00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:35,519
you can't use a double standard, or you can't you know,

484
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,400
change the goalpost and say well, I'm going to use

485
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,359
this principle to critique your position, but you can't use

486
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,000
that for my position and why Well, because my position

487
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:47,440
is not subject to that critique. Well that's just arbitrary.

488
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,599
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But the thing is in Muslims again,

489
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:59,279
Muslims don't understand like universal, general abstract argument. You really

490
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:01,200
have to go in to greatly and show it to

491
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:05,400
them because they really operate on the level. The other

492
00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:09,920
argument is that, well, the apostle John could not have

493
00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:13,640
written the Gospel of John. And this again, this is

494
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,799
a critical naturalist school.

495
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 15: Argan, what is the argument?

496
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:19,279
Speaker 6: You know it? Why did they say that John written?

497
00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 10: Because of John?

498
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 12: Beside the prophecy?

499
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: I mean there's different ones. Sometimes they argue that because

500
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,400
it's so theologically advanced and had to come from some

501
00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:31,880
late era something like that the divinity of Christ, and

502
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,920
nobody at that time yet believe in the divinity of Christ,

503
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,359
so it must have come from a later era.

504
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 12: Yeah. Again, it contained sophisticated like philosophical and it's written

505
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,720
in Greek, right, It's written in Greek. And we are

506
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,480
told that the apostles, like John Peter, they were just

507
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:55,480
like Galilean fisherman. They were illiterates, right, m hm. Well,

508
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:57,559
as a Muslim, you're supposed to believe in this thing

509
00:31:57,599 --> 00:31:59,079
called divine inspiration.

510
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:02,279
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, good point, right, And the Qur'an.

511
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:08,079
Speaker 12: Itself says, well, Muhammad's enemies they accuse him of forging

512
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,640
the Qur'an because Muhammad is an illiterate.

513
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,039
Speaker 3: And he could not have come up with all right, right, right,

514
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,799
he's even called and he called the illiterate one, right, yeah, exactly.

515
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 12: And when it comes to Koran, Muslims use this as

516
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,559
a proof by an.

517
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 6: Inspiration, like this proof a proof that John.

518
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,519
Speaker 12: When it comes to Christians, it's just taken a naturalist

519
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,279
atheist argument like no, well John was a was an illiterate,

520
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:34,960
it didn't be great.

521
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,319
Speaker 3: So he could not have written the Gospel exactly.

522
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:41,079
Speaker 12: And this is like this is a flagrant, very basic

523
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:48,440
double standard that like again, as a Muslim, when when

524
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,039
I understood this, when when this like inside came to me,

525
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:54,519
this was probably the point where I, like I became

526
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,440
a Christian, you know.

527
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:56,799
Speaker 6: What I mean?

528
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,319
Speaker 3: Oh, so you recognize this double standard approach and that

529
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,000
was something that really clicked with you.

530
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,079
Speaker 12: Yeah, it really it blew my mind.

531
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 17: Huh.

532
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: That's good to know. Yeah, I mean I didn't I

533
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,920
didn't know that that was one of the things that

534
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,119
was really clicking for you. But it's good to know that. Yeah.

535
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:19,039
Speaker 10: And again, like.

536
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 12: Every debate, like after I became a Christian author of

537
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,799
Christian I've had every day I debate with Christians, every Muslims,

538
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:34,880
and every single debate, they cite whatever part Ermans, whatever

539
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,400
dating of the Gospels and what he says like, oh no,

540
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,920
they're not written by apostles, they're written late. And every

541
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,640
time when you go into it, okay, why does he

542
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,680
date them late? Why does he say the apostles could

543
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,160
never written them? When you attack these presuppositions, Muslims just

544
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,599
like break down like oh yeah, yeah, well you're right. Really,

545
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,359
there's no they don't have any response to that.

546
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,279
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Hey, thank you to all. Thus I appreciate those comments,

547
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:05,119
and you have great points to keep in mind, like

548
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:09,039
why would we accept this double standard? Uh, in regard

549
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:14,159
to your position, but we're not allowed to have that, uh,

550
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,079
you know, critique for the Qur'an right you can use

551
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:21,719
that critique of us. Yeah, okay, did your thumbing down?

552
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,000
I see you. I'm mute. What's up, c RG, I'm you.

553
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 5: What's going on?

554
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,119
Speaker 6: Man?

555
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,199
Speaker 16: But I just want to say, uh, I love to

556
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,079
have a little religious debate. But the DUDEO was just

557
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,360
up here. I want to say a lot of that

558
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:40,159
was false. You feel me as far as like Muslims,

559
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,440
that's just that's a that's a bold claim with no

560
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:47,599
proof that Muslims just fall off and say that You're right.

561
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,079
Speaker 3: No, they do that all that's not false. They do

562
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,679
it all the time. They're talking about not all the time. Right, Yeah,

563
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,599
I've been in hundreds of Muslim debates. What are you

564
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:56,159
talking about?

565
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 6: Okay?

566
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 5: The question is are those Muslims and knowledge?

567
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: Because all the top Muslims except for one.

568
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 5: Okay, I just take your word for it. That's not

569
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,400
my point.

570
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:08,679
Speaker 6: Right.

571
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 16: When I came up, though, I mean before I came up,

572
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,880
when I came into the space, I saw I was

573
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,079
listening to the recorder.

574
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:16,039
Speaker 5: I guess that was you, right.

575
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:18,639
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about.

576
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 6: The music.

577
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:22,159
Speaker 5: It was a recording play. It was something playing the music.

578
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,880
It was no, no, no, no, it wasn't the music.

579
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 3: It was oh the clip I played about? Yeah, yeah, right,

580
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:30,239
So it was.

581
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,159
Speaker 6: Talking about the inn jail.

582
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 16: A lot of you know, a lot of Christians, a

583
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,760
lot of people like to talk.

584
00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 6: About the n jail.

585
00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 16: That verse in particular that was being talked about.

586
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:43,199
Speaker 5: I think that was chapter five. What uh, verse forty seven.

587
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 16: That verse is talking is telling the people of the

588
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:50,599
book right to judge the book. That's how they getting

589
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:52,920
judged by that book from the people of that time.

590
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,000
Was that's the in jail, the gospel that was around

591
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:58,679
that time.

592
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 6: They are getting judged by that.

593
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 5: They're not getting judged by the Qur'an.

594
00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: No, it's saying that the people that have prior revelation

595
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:12,159
can judge the new revelation and see that the new

596
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,719
revelation of the of Muhammad is in continuity with the

597
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,199
old revelation. That's the claim.

598
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 16: That's not but that's not what Muslim scholar is saying

599
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:22,840
that that's what that means.

600
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,039
Speaker 3: What does forty eight say a confirmation of the previous

601
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:30,920
script about that verse though I'm talking about the next

602
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:36,280
verse five? Forty eight says that it's a confirmation of

603
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,280
the previous scripture.

604
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,039
Speaker 5: That what that verse means, right is.

605
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:44,519
Speaker 6: My bad.

606
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 16: I got a phone call back in that time. Muhammad

607
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,119
went to the Jews.

608
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: Are you there? We lost you? If you want to

609
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:23,000
come back talk, I'm you.

610
00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:28,599
Speaker 6: Can you hear me? Okay?

611
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:33,039
Speaker 7: So I just heard your debate or a portion of

612
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:36,519
back and forth with CRG, We've got a question for you.

613
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,119
Speaker 6: In order to get the.

614
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 7: Deep meaning of a text, not just the surface meaning,

615
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,119
do you need to understand.

616
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,159
Speaker 6: The original language?

617
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 7: In other words, do you speak or understand Greek, Aramaic,

618
00:37:58,639 --> 00:37:59,920
Hebrew or Arabic.

619
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,519
Speaker 3: Understanding the languages can be a great tool, but it

620
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:08,000
does not guarantee either the understanding of a quote deeper meaning,

621
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,320
nor does it guarantee that your theology is correct. It's

622
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,599
just a tool in the tool set.

623
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 6: Okay, So do you believe in that standard?

624
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:18,119
Speaker 3: What standard.

625
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 7: We just said where you just said that the language

626
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,079
is a tool that you could understand it.

627
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:27,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a helpful tool. But plenty of people with

628
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,400
linguistic degrees, as you would admit, have heretical and ridiculous theology.

629
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:33,599
Speaker 6: Right.

630
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 7: So, if you use language to communicate your ideas, to

631
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,920
either cancel out a specific theology or call it a

632
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:46,519
coffee paste from another theology, you ought to know the

633
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,000
source and its source language and a target and it's time.

634
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:53,159
Speaker 3: No, I don't have to know the original languages to

635
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:59,480
know that, because the languages can adequately translate the ideas well.

636
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 6: You just said that you would lose some contact.

637
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 3: I never said. I didn't say that. I said it's

638
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,199
a tool, that's all I said.

639
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, so it's a tool. But do you

640
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,239
believe that when you look at that tool and utilize

641
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,159
it to.

642
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 7: Understand something, will there be a loss of understanding in

643
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,000
any shape or form.

644
00:39:18,519 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: It's it's a case by case basis with certain texts.

645
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,639
To stop interrupting me, let me finish. No, I didn't

646
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:27,840
say yes. I said it's more nuanced than the either

647
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,199
or that you're trying to put upon me. It's a both,

648
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,519
and it really depends on the specifics of the situation.

649
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,119
But no, we do not have the belief that you

650
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,440
only truly know the religion if you speak or know Arabic,

651
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:41,039
for example. And by the way, that would mean that

652
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,719
your position isn't for all people. And it would also

653
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,360
mean that the Koran is false when it says that

654
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,039
all things in the churn are actually clear.

655
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, but it is clear, so that's the thing.

656
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,119
Speaker 3: So it's clearer than So why are you got different

657
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,760
schools disagreeing over anthropomorphism if it's all clear?

658
00:39:56,559 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 6: Right, But let me just go back to it.

659
00:39:58,039 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: So you're not going to answer that, right, You're not

660
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,119
going to answer that, Oh I will.

661
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:02,519
Speaker 6: There's lots of broader context.

662
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:05,199
Speaker 3: Oh wait, so now you're allowed to have a broader context.

663
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,519
But when you ask me an oversimplified question about languages,

664
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:09,199
I can't have that.

665
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, you are entitled to whatever you want to

666
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,840
hear the host of this this space. But with all

667
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,039
due respect, I asked you whether a loss of meaning

668
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:19,800
could result.

669
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: I answered you that it's possible in some cases, but

670
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,519
not substantially such that the entire religion is unknown unless

671
00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:29,559
you know the original languages. We don't believe that.

672
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,199
Speaker 6: Do you have an example where it could be lost?

673
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:39,679
Speaker 3: There are difficult texts and passages that require linguistic scholars

674
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,519
or textual scholars to try to help to understand those passages,

675
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:44,519
but they're not all.

676
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

677
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,039
Speaker 3: I think there's passages in the New Testament that are

678
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:53,000
difficult to understand exactly in the Quran, No, I don't

679
00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:55,440
study or know the Arabic, but I can give you

680
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:58,679
one example. In many places in the Koran, for example,

681
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,159
it will mention the prophet in the book, and it

682
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,719
doesn't specify what those generic phrases or people are referring

683
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,960
to hints, why you have all the hadith that helped

684
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,880
you explain it.

685
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,639
Speaker 7: Right, So, but in the Qur'an, so in your example,

686
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,840
you didn't bring up the entire sentence, but you said a.

687
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 6: Specific word, like the prophet or the book mean different things.

688
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 3: I said, it's generic, that it's not identified, and hence

689
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,519
the hadiths make that clear. So it was very obvious

690
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:32,199
what I was saying.

691
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 7: Okay, So going back to that point where a language

692
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:42,400
potentially in case by case spaces, as you stated, could

693
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,599
result into using that tool, could result into a loss

694
00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:54,440
of understanding in case by case spaces, right, Okay, So

695
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,519
if that's the case, you do you have a complete

696
00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:01,480
example where there would be a loss of understanding.

697
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: Again, any of the passages that are ambiguous about what

698
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,920
prophet is being mentioned or what the book quote unquote

699
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:16,360
is are by their very nature ambiguous. Thus the hadith

700
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,800
that later tried to explain and clarify those are my example.

701
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 4: No, I understand.

702
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 6: I think that's a valid point when you say that

703
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:23,440
these clarified.

704
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:27,559
Speaker 7: But do you know as as yourself, a complete sentence

705
00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:29,639
from Quran that's ambiguous.

706
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: Well, we have revealed to you a prophet, the book

707
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,639
with the this book with the truth, a confirmation of

708
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,440
previous scriptures, previous scriptures, and this book is this this

709
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:48,000
book meaning the Torah, the Engeal, or the Quran are

710
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:50,639
the previous scriptures? What are these previous scriptures? So it

711
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,639
is ambiguous, and so hence other places in the hadith,

712
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,079
for example, try to clarify.

713
00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 7: So in your opinion that in that's in that specific

714
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,199
example that you provided, there is a loss of understanding

715
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:06,400
because it's ambiguous.

716
00:43:06,559 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: Well, and the usage of for example, prophet many times

717
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,199
throughout the Quran is ambiguous as well.

718
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,119
Speaker 7: When it talks about the word profit isa or Jesus,

719
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,119
that's ambiguous.

720
00:43:17,159 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about those I'm talking about the statements

721
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,280
that just mentioned the prophet, the prophet. The prophet does

722
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,360
the Koran tell you in all those cases who the

723
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:26,519
prophet is right?

724
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 6: Right? So when it uses the word in English.

725
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 3: What's your point?

726
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:30,559
Speaker 6: Man?

727
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: This is yapping on and on and on and what

728
00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:33,920
do you have an argument or point?

729
00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:34,679
Speaker 1: Yeah?

730
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 7: The point is this, because I think you've just proven

731
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,559
it when you use the when you use a word

732
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,679
called t he the and then use the word profit,

733
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:50,039
it is your interpretation from a source language of Arabic

734
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:50,960
into English.

735
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,559
Speaker 6: When you when you qualify something with the with the

736
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:56,760
what does that tell you?

737
00:43:58,800 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 14: Well?

738
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 6: There can be a loss of this is there's a

739
00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:01,639
loss of me.

740
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: I have no idea what you're trying to argue. If

741
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,280
you're gonna you're not gonna make a point, what's I

742
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:06,920
don't I don't get.

743
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 6: I think I think the point is here. If you

744
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,679
want to debate on Islam, you ought to. You ought

745
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,000
to know the source. That's that's my point.

746
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so do you know the sources of Christianity?

747
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:19,119
Speaker 12: No?

748
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,119
Speaker 3: I don't so well, so you so once again Islamic

749
00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:26,400
double standards. You can come here and debate your religion,

750
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,280
but you but you can talk about Islam, but I

751
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,679
shouldn't talk about Islam because I don't know the source material,

752
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,440
even though you don't hold up the source material on

753
00:44:34,519 --> 00:44:35,239
the same standard.

754
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,159
Speaker 6: Jay, do you know the source language?

755
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,599
Speaker 3: So again, so this is all hypocrisy and double standards,

756
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:43,440
things that you're not going to reply to. No, you're

757
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,800
not going to apply it to yourself. So my arguments

758
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,079
stand on their own, whether or not I'm an Arabic

759
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:51,599
scholar or not. And so in other words, listen, shut up,

760
00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:53,880
by your standard. I don't have to listen to you

761
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,000
because you don't know Greek, Hebrew and Arame. So you

762
00:44:57,159 --> 00:44:59,840
just canceled out yourself by your own double standard. And

763
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:03,360
thank you for vindicating the fact. Thank you for vindicating

764
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,960
that you guys use double standards, which was the point

765
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,159
five minutes ago. Here we go, here we go, here

766
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,760
we go. So exactly, I already said that I don't

767
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,760
have the position that you have to know the original

768
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,079
languages to know the religion. That's something that you have

769
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,119
invented as a standard, because you don't have an actual

770
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,400
argument ilios. And by the way, I can point if

771
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,000
I don't know languages, the next best thing one can

772
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:32,000
do is point two scholars, and I can point to

773
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:38,800
multiple scholars that points out ambiguities in the Qur'an. So

774
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:41,719
this is just going to turn into a infinite regress

775
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,639
of citing so called scholars. Hey, Jamie, could you bring

776
00:45:44,679 --> 00:45:45,079
me a water?

777
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 6: Thank you?

778
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: Go ahead, I'm mute, Yeah, I.

779
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,599
Speaker 23: Hello, j Thank you for allowing me to speak. I

780
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,400
used to be Muslim, actually memorize.

781
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 6: The entire Quran or the Bran.

782
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,519
Speaker 23: And one of the things that the point I want

783
00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:09,639
to make regarding why I left Islam in addition to

784
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:16,760
many other things, is the the foundational contradictions basically, which

785
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,719
is that God a lot a lot basically gave us

786
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,119
free will and this life is a test, you know,

787
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,159
and you know that test basically decides whether we go

788
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,199
to heaven or we go to help forever. But at

789
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:34,599
the same time there's another verse and yeah, but.

790
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 3: Also all uh basically predestines and determines every single event

791
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,920
because most of them are occasionalists, which means that Allah

792
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,880
is the direct cause of every single event.

793
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 6: Yeah.

794
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 23: Yeah, so it's it's like, yeah, so one of those

795
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,280
foundational like contradictions like that never made any.

796
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:56,559
Speaker 10: Sense to me, you know.

797
00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 14: And the other thing is is like, you know, going

798
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,320
to help forever just because you don't believe in Muhammad

799
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:03,599
or you know.

800
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:06,159
Speaker 6: Some of these teachings.

801
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,119
Speaker 23: You know, I get like going to hell forever for

802
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,119
killing millions or whatnot, but you know, going to help

803
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:12,960
forever because you don't believe in Mohammad.

804
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 12: You know.

805
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,159
Speaker 10: That's another thing.

806
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just wanted to make that point.

807
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, think, yeah, yeah, I'm glad, I think it is.

808
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,000
I think you're right. Like eventually it's kind of clear

809
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:27,599
that there's some pretty fundamental contradictions in this position, this religion,

810
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:30,920
and that's why we tend to focus on those. I mean,

811
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:31,679
they do the same thing.

812
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 17: They're like Trinity trendity would make no sense. Salty m hm,

813
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:45,840
how you doing?

814
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,159
Speaker 15: What are you?

815
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,039
Speaker 24: I'm trying to follow what exactly the subject is you're

816
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:52,320
trying to debate?

817
00:47:53,360 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: Well, it's any of the topics listed under debates, So Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Atheism, libertarianism, uh, Mormonism,

818
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,199
those witnesses, you name it.

819
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 24: Okay, it's my personal view that I think Catholicism, uh

820
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:16,320
should be the one Christianity.

821
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 10: Just based off the history.

822
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 12: And that.

823
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: Hold on what does that mean? Just based off the history?

824
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,079
Speaker 24: So you know, based off of what Jesus said that

825
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,320
you know, he shall build his church on the rock

826
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:38,159
and that you know, that's really what Catholicism was actually

827
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,639
built on, was the grave of you know, Peter.

828
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 6: The rock.

829
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 3: So it's built on the grave of Peter. Yeah, do

830
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,639
you have any do you have any church? Do you

831
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:52,760
have any church fathers or New Testament biblical proof or

832
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,119
evidence that the rock of the church in Rome is

833
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,960
built on Peter's grave.

834
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 24: Well, I mean, Jesus changed Peter's name from Simon, but.

835
00:49:06,599 --> 00:49:08,159
Speaker 3: He changed Abraham's name too, so what.

836
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 10: Well, I mean it just kind of.

837
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:20,559
Speaker 24: Uh, I feel like the chain of custody, you know

838
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:22,719
what I mean, would be that.

839
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 3: So, but what I'm saying is, why is it Rome?

840
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,559
Since there's three patrine scenes sees Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria,

841
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:31,119
why is Rome the one that's special?

842
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,599
Speaker 24: Because like that's I mean, Jesus actually conquered the Roman Empire.

843
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:42,079
Speaker 3: Jesus conquered the Roman Empire, so the Roman Catholic Church. Okay, yeah,

844
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,480
that's a really good argument. Jesus conquered the Roman Empire,

845
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:50,280
and so the Roman Catholic Church, because it's the word Roman,

846
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:54,519
is the one true church. Yeah, stellar argument there, Tony.

847
00:49:54,559 --> 00:50:01,480
What's up man? I guess the good news is that

848
00:50:01,639 --> 00:50:03,760
if that's where the Roman Catholics are at these days,

849
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,880
then we're doing good. By the way, we got seven

850
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:08,639
hundred and thirty if you would hit like and share,

851
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:15,360
we only got two hundred thirty five likes, Tony. I'm mute, Tony, Tony,

852
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,000
it feels good.

853
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:18,679
Speaker 6: Yeah.

854
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 14: So I was just curious. I'm a Catholic, so I'm

855
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,159
pretty well, I'm decently.

856
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:28,199
Speaker 6: Educated Catholic.

857
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 14: In other words, most Catholics don't really know their faith.

858
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,119
Speaker 6: Well, I was just wondering, what faith do you practice?

859
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 3: Orthodox?

860
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:39,119
Speaker 10: You're Orthodox Christian Catholic.

861
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 6: All right, we're like Eastern Orthodox.

862
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 14: Okay, I give you, you know, kudos for that, because

863
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:50,519
right now, your your dogma and teachings are are much

864
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,119
a little bit more correct than the Roman Catholic.

865
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 3: Right, how is that possible? Given Vatican Ones claims, Well.

866
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 14: The you know, because we've had some problems in the

867
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:07,519
in the Vatican and uh over the years, especially the

868
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:08,960
last fifty or sixty years.

869
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 3: Well, but I mean, how does that how does that

870
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:13,360
Vatican One?

871
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:21,639
Speaker 14: Yeah? Well, you know, I would I yeah, yeah, you know,

872
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,719
well I don't want to, you know, because I'm a

873
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,360
little different than a lot of other Catholics. And I'm

874
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,480
pretty serious. I'm a Roman Catholic. I'm a Carmelite.

875
00:51:32,199 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: So so how are you different? What do you mean?

876
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:35,599
Speaker 7: Meaning?

877
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,519
Speaker 6: You know, I I do believe that there was some error.

878
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,119
Speaker 14: Because man is man, and there are some things that

879
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:48,719
that get twisted in belief system and and it's and

880
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,440
and probably started at Vatican One. So a lot of

881
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,159
Catholics will agree with that. In other words, with that statement,

882
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,599
I just made that there were some errors and translations

883
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,920
of things and teachings from Vatican One, but overall the

884
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,480
Catholic faith is pretty much intact.

885
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 3: Do you believe with Vatican one that everything that is

886
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:16,960
proposed by divine and Catholic faith are to be believed,

887
00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:20,800
whether contained in the Word of God, scripture, tradition, or

888
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:26,239
ex cathedral solmn judgment or ordinary universal magisterium, are infallible?

889
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:28,559
Speaker 4: Well?

890
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, see you're well you really grabbed me, you know,

891
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:37,159
because that's where I do have some questions about the

892
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,760
infallibility on who judges that as infallible?

893
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,519
Speaker 3: Well, I mean Vatican one says the purpose. Yeah, it

894
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:46,719
says the purpose. Who does it? So we know what

895
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:48,199
the Roman Church teaches?

896
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 14: Yeah, so so yeah, I do have some difficulties with

897
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,519
that because I do see lots of how we went

898
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,559
from near in other.

899
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 3: Words, from Okay, well, but I mean I'm not trying

900
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,679
to me mean to you, but I mean, if you

901
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,400
have difficulties with an ecumenical council approved by the Roman Sea,

902
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,840
you're no longer Roman Catholic Because Roman Catholicism says that

903
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,480
to adopt one heresy or to reject an ecumenical council

904
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:14,159
or dogmatic teaching no longer makes you Roman Catholic.

905
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:21,599
Speaker 14: Well yeah, yeah, I could say right now, I am

906
00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:24,280
not going to Mass. I don't like Vatican two Mass.

907
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:26,199
I don't believe it's a valid Mass.

908
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 3: Oh so you're a traditional Catholic, you would call me more.

909
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 6: My beliefs are in the traditional Catholic beliefs.

910
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:36,519
Speaker 3: Yes, but every track Cat I've ever met or non

911
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:38,800
believes Vatican One is infallible.

912
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 14: So you're a why I said when I said there

913
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,000
is an infallibility to it, it's just I have some questions.

914
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 3: About Oh so it's infallible except for the places where

915
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:50,800
it makes mistakes.

916
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,159
Speaker 14: Well, yeah, I think some problems can I couldn't.

917
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 3: Actually that would have been, that would be I mean

918
00:53:58,800 --> 00:53:59,840
that it's not infallible.

919
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 14: So well, nothing's infallible, and man, that's my point.

920
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 3: Well, but I mean the claim of the Roman Catholic

921
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,360
Church is that the Roman see is infallible in a

922
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:10,360
man in Rome.

923
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 14: So that's not true if they follow the procedure exactly correctly, which.

924
00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:15,559
Speaker 6: Is what they do.

925
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 3: But it actually no, actually it does not say only

926
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,199
when they quote follow a procedure, it actually says that

927
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,920
also His Ordinary Universal Magistrate is guided by the patrin

928
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,719
Charism too, So it's not just the ex Cathedra statements.

929
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:30,360
It's also extended to the Universal Ordinary Teaching Office.

930
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 6: But Orthodox.

931
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,639
Speaker 14: Is along the same lines and in beliefs as Vatican ones.

932
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:45,119
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm not trying to but no, there's nothing

933
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:47,559
in Orthodox Christianity that's in line with Vatican One. So

934
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:51,719
I'm not trying to be rude, but just know what

935
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:54,920
at all in Orthodox Christianity at all lines up with

936
00:54:55,039 --> 00:55:01,239
Vatican One. I mean, Martin Luther, here we go. Oh

937
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,519
my gosh, bongo five dollars, Jay big fan. My question

938
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:07,119
is how much choice do we have and what we believe?

939
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,880
I think a good amount. I mean, we might be

940
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,239
predisposed to something because we were raised with it when

941
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,599
maybe we fell under the spell of a cult leader

942
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,039
or something when we were young and we didn't have

943
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:25,280
the full faculty of a free choice and reason functioning.

944
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,880
But I think that as we get older and more mature,

945
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,639
I think we have a good amount of choice in

946
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,800
what we believe. I know that we laugh at Matt

947
00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:38,559
Dilon monkey saying, quote, I'm not convinced, but how much

948
00:55:38,639 --> 00:55:40,559
choice do we have and what we find convincing? Do

949
00:55:40,679 --> 00:55:43,199
external factors play a role? Yeah?

950
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:43,559
Speaker 10: They do.

951
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,159
Speaker 3: I just think that the problem when we critique Matt

952
00:55:47,199 --> 00:55:50,159
Dolo Monkey for saying I'm not convinced, it's not because

953
00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:52,920
you can't express that as a kind of an existential

954
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,199
dilemma or crisis. It's just that you can't use that

955
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,519
as an argument. It's not an argument. It's a psychological report,

956
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,159
and in debates, psychological reports of absolutely no value. They're irrelevant.

957
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,840
Vain five dollars. Here is a new Matt Dolla Monkey

958
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,159
song I whipped up. I'll have to go into the

959
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:18,079
stream labs, the back door of the stream labs to

960
00:56:18,119 --> 00:56:20,719
get the link. I can't get links from the desktop.

961
00:56:21,199 --> 00:56:25,800
Vain two dollars. It's a down potato syndrome, just being

962
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:32,039
Canadian exactly, mim kg five dollars. The iron here is

963
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:37,119
that this kid, what's his name, Colby cold Cuts, Colby

964
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:40,559
Potato cold Cuts. He's a taate fan. How is he

965
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,440
sensitive to tone policing? Well, all those people are just

966
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:47,800
tone policers when anybody challenges them. But he's going to

967
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,920
act like he's some tough dude for front and he

968
00:56:53,079 --> 00:56:57,239
front Yon Vander shoot five dollars. How many boogers are

969
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,760
in the uncreated nose of a lot? That's a good question.

970
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:04,199
If you got an uncreated shin and an uncreative foot

971
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:08,679
into uncreated right hands, do you got to uncreated nose?

972
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:15,000
Steve mclove and two dollars? Why didn't all I give

973
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:18,840
Jesus a printing press for the Injeel that came down

974
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,400
as a book? Exactly? That that right there, by the way,

975
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,719
tells you that Islam like didn't understand what was the message.

976
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:33,199
Like they misunderstood the message of the Gospels and Jesus's

977
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,360
Gospel and the Gospels meaning the books, and they thought

978
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,719
that the Injeel was a book. I mean, it's that

979
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,039
right there tells you that this is a low, subtard

980
00:57:45,159 --> 00:57:50,599
level misunderstanding that they wrote into their religion. Mkg five dollars.

981
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,079
By the way, I've been wondering about the origin of

982
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:57,360
the Islamic dilemma? Who introduced it? Do you think your

983
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,239
background in philosophy and orthodoxy bolt it. I think that

984
00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:06,880
I understood it pretty quickly when I first encountered it.

985
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,800
But I'm sure there have been apologetic people who've been

986
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,960
talking about it for a long time. I'm sure Shamoon

987
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:15,519
and David Wood and all these people were talking about

988
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:18,280
lay before, way before I knew about it. I don't

989
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,000
know who was the first person to use that argument

990
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:24,480
would be. It's probably been around for a long time.

991
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:27,639
I mean, you don't have to read very far into

992
00:58:27,639 --> 00:58:31,920
the Quran. You know two and then chapter five, saw

993
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:37,840
twos or five, right, and you're already encountering what it

994
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:40,760
says about the prior revelation. So it's not like it took,

995
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,440
you know, a whole thousand years of research to understand

996
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:48,599
that they made these really stupid claims. Harry Sarpanos ten

997
00:58:48,639 --> 00:58:52,880
dollars White and Muslims evangelized when Muhammad told Jews that

998
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,400
they should follow Torah and Gentiles that they have their

999
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,119
Bible as well. It's not it's an inconsistent position. Obviously,

1000
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:02,639
Muhammad was clear the Quran was written in Arabic and

1001
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,559
only intended for the Arabs. Yeah, this is the point

1002
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:07,920
that also David Wood makes that originally this was supposed

1003
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,559
to be the religion for the Arab peoples, but then

1004
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:14,599
later on, as you get these phases of Mohammad's career

1005
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:17,159
in his life. Then it turns into a no, actually,

1006
00:59:17,159 --> 00:59:21,079
we got to conquer all these people. Cody s five dollars.

1007
00:59:22,719 --> 00:59:25,800
The Bible is a Vatican one is infallible except where

1008
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,400
it makes the mistakes. Where have we heard that before?

1009
00:59:29,719 --> 00:59:32,760
Oh Islam? This is actually a good point. What we

1010
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,360
hear from Roman Catholics is the same coping type of

1011
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:42,679
mechanism that you see manifesting with the Muslims. Exactly, very perceptive.

1012
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:48,039
Joho Shafat Julian five dollars. Can you refute Native American culture?

1013
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,440
I'm Native. I mean I would do a critique of

1014
00:59:53,679 --> 00:59:56,679
the religious beliefs. I don't know about critiquing the culture,

1015
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,599
but if I was to create a critique Native American theology,

1016
01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:03,559
it would be a critique of, you know whatever. There

1017
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:06,800
are various theological principles. I'm not very well studied on

1018
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,320
all the various Native American religious traditions, so I mean,

1019
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,639
I know they confess like a creator, you know, the

1020
01:00:13,719 --> 01:00:16,880
great Spirit or whatever. I think there's like their version

1021
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,519
of the Ten Commandments. They have like ten basic principles

1022
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:22,239
of the Creator Spirit or something. But I think that

1023
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,559
it also has polytheistic elements, so that's probably where I

1024
01:00:25,559 --> 01:00:30,360
would begin the critique. David Koshaba seven dollars, New Zealand. Hey, Jamie,

1025
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:31,559
could you bring me a gender tube?

1026
01:00:33,159 --> 01:00:33,679
Speaker 6: Can you hear me?

1027
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:37,719
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Martin? Did you want to go ahead?

1028
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:39,159
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1029
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 25: I was wanting to know what you thought about John Calvin,

1030
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:47,039
John Knox, and Martin Luther's work as far as salvation

1031
01:00:48,239 --> 01:00:52,320
because in Jude talks about the faith that wants to delivered.

1032
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll referenced that passes many times to refute cults.

1033
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:05,079
Speaker 26: Roman Catholicism, I think is the cradle of Christianity unless

1034
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:09,559
you've been like I have exposed to Baptist Lark Mark

1035
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:16,599
Mark Landmarkism, which is it traces Christianity through Peter Lombard.

1036
01:01:18,639 --> 01:01:20,079
Speaker 4: Are you familiar with that argument?

1037
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,159
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm familiar with the claims of the Trail

1038
01:01:23,199 --> 01:01:25,639
of Blood. I have a copy over there. But why

1039
01:01:25,679 --> 01:01:28,320
would I think the true Christianity is maintained through a

1040
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,000
bunch of anti trinitarian, heretical, crazy groups. Don't you think

1041
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:32,760
that's kind of silly?

1042
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 4: I was just asking, so, what denomination do you personally affiliate.

1043
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,199
Speaker 3: With Orthodox Eastern Orthodox Christianity?

1044
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 4: So are you familiar with Brother Nathaniel unfortunately? So what's

1045
01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:50,840
your take on his views?

1046
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 3: He's a quack?

1047
01:01:55,519 --> 01:01:56,679
Speaker 6: Can you extrapolate on.

1048
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,639
Speaker 3: This quack equal mentally? Ill?

1049
01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 4: Okay, what's your understanding of ken Ham.

1050
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 6: And the Arc down in Kentucky and advocating the earth is.

1051
01:02:12,239 --> 01:02:13,639
Speaker 4: Eight thousand years old?

1052
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 3: I think that there's some good arguments for young Earth.

1053
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:19,840
I tend to favor that view myself. I've never been

1054
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,599
to the Arc. I think would be cool to go see,

1055
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:23,599
but I'm not a huge fan of ken Ham.

1056
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,119
Speaker 4: You're a huge fan of Canaham.

1057
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,599
Speaker 3: Not a huge fan of Kenham because I would say

1058
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:32,239
he has goofy theology.

1059
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 4: Answers in Genesis.

1060
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 27: The reason I got started in being a Christian I

1061
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:45,760
was introduced to the old schoolfield Bible, the original schoolfield,

1062
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,039
and it promoted the gap theory.

1063
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,039
Speaker 4: And recently I came across they said.

1064
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 27: Of Pleplo Bible school Notes from nine nine Universal Notes,

1065
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,239
and they allowed.

1066
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 4: For millions of years for the Earth. So I laid

1067
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,760
that as a fact, I asked this question.

1068
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,199
Speaker 27: I've run into people who were dogmatically committed.

1069
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:15,239
Speaker 4: To answers and Genesis, and they considered anyone who is

1070
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:21,159
Old Earth to be a heretic, that's my takeaway. And

1071
01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:23,599
now this fellowship, are you fami with that.

1072
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,599
Speaker 3: I'm not Protestants, so I've not been in the Protestant

1073
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:29,880
world since two thousand and two, so I don't know

1074
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,519
anything about these groups or what you're talking about. I

1075
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,000
was at one time a reader of the Schofield Bible

1076
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:38,760
when I was a teenager, but I soon learned that

1077
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:42,440
that was a psyop that was funded by the essentially

1078
01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:46,639
the Jewish power structure in England to promote the idea

1079
01:03:46,719 --> 01:03:49,239
of the restoration of the Nation State of Israel. The

1080
01:03:49,519 --> 01:03:53,360
balf Declaration all that to Americans, and thus all the

1081
01:03:53,519 --> 01:04:00,599
idiot American evangelicals were duped into supporting a Secularish empire

1082
01:04:00,719 --> 01:04:03,440
project known as the Nation State of Israel, which has

1083
01:04:03,519 --> 01:04:06,239
nothing to do with the biblical nation State of Israel.

1084
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 6: So I concur with you, and I am I would

1085
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:13,039
like to.

1086
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:18,719
Speaker 27: Validate what you said through the readings or whatever resources

1087
01:04:19,159 --> 01:04:23,880
you can give me, because I am not a Zionist

1088
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:29,639
and I personally have ethical problems with the total ethnic

1089
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:34,840
cleansing of the Palestinians. And I heard Richard Lamb this

1090
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,400
is a personal story. Richard Lamb was the head of

1091
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:45,519
the Executive Committee for Ethics of the Southern Baptist Convention.

1092
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:50,280
I heard him speak at Trace Creek Baptist churchill Kentucky,

1093
01:04:50,519 --> 01:04:55,360
and he called for the annihilation of every man, woman

1094
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,400
and child in Gaza because the Jews had total and

1095
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:02,039
absolute right to that lane.

1096
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're judaizing heretics and there morons, so exactly. I

1097
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,480
appreciate your call, but no, I do not like the

1098
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:12,960
theology of either Martin Luther or John Calvin. I have

1099
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:16,960
multiple lengthy critiques of both of those people, mark In,

1100
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,239
but thank you for your comments.

1101
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 6: You can you hear me? Is this stream like a

1102
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:30,119
met alone to ast questions or is it only disagreements?

1103
01:05:31,159 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 3: It's pretty open, So what's on your mind?

1104
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:35,559
Speaker 6: I have two questions.

1105
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:39,159
Speaker 15: The first one is about philosophy, the others about theology.

1106
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:43,599
The first one you can correct me if I'm wrong,

1107
01:05:43,679 --> 01:05:45,599
But I believe about like two or three months ago,

1108
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:47,719
you want to stream, and you were talking about how

1109
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:51,519
the law of identity states that like two things cannot

1110
01:05:51,559 --> 01:05:54,760
subsist together or something like that, and you were saying

1111
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,679
that the Lord Jesus is above that law, which is

1112
01:05:57,719 --> 01:05:58,920
why you can have two natures.

1113
01:05:59,079 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 6: Do you remember something.

1114
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,039
Speaker 3: I don't remember the specific live stream, but I mean

1115
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,280
I think that if you use the classical definitions of

1116
01:06:10,039 --> 01:06:13,280
some of these things in the Aristotelian sense, they don't

1117
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,519
fit into the Christian paradigm when we try to apply

1118
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:19,280
them to God. God transcends those categories because those are

1119
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,559
categories for the created order, so they're not going to

1120
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:23,920
be perfectly applicable to the Creator.

1121
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 6: Okay, So my question was like, if someone else to

1122
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:28,920
how do you know.

1123
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,159
Speaker 15: That this law of logic doesn't apply to God and

1124
01:06:31,239 --> 01:06:34,119
the others do with the answer to me, well, that's like,

1125
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:35,760
what's divinely ritual to us?

1126
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 3: Well, it's not just that, it's that the theological revelation

1127
01:06:41,679 --> 01:06:46,039
tells us the limitations of the created order and logic

1128
01:06:46,119 --> 01:06:48,360
applying to God. So, in other words, revelation itself tells

1129
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,760
us that, for example, God is transcendent, so there's no

1130
01:06:52,639 --> 01:06:57,320
finite created category that's going to perfectly box him in

1131
01:06:57,639 --> 01:07:00,639
or define him or encapsulate him. That that's part of

1132
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,280
apathetic theology and why we say, for example, the essence

1133
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,639
of God is unknowable. That doesn't mean that God is

1134
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,880
holy or totally unknowable. Because as Besil says, his energies

1135
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,199
come down to us. So we have these rays r

1136
01:07:15,239 --> 01:07:18,840
ay that extend from God down to us, these energies

1137
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,679
which reveal aspects of God, but never totally and never exhaustively.

1138
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:26,639
So logic is something that reflects the mind of God,

1139
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,000
but it doesn't define God and it doesn't exhaust God.

1140
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:33,119
So you can't say, for example, the law of identity,

1141
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:36,000
which is a reflection of God's mind. You couldn't say,

1142
01:07:36,039 --> 01:07:38,559
for example, God's mind is the law of identity.

1143
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,599
Speaker 6: You see, Okay, thank you for that. And then I's tha.

1144
01:07:43,639 --> 01:07:48,039
A question I had about is Luke II, verse.

1145
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 10: Fifty two, where it talks about how the.

1146
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,599
Speaker 15: Lord Jesus grew in wisdom. And I've heard two different

1147
01:07:53,639 --> 01:07:57,199
interpretations about this verse. Some people interpret it like, oh,

1148
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,440
that's that's like the human brain of the or Jesus

1149
01:08:00,519 --> 01:08:03,639
not grew in wisdom, but then the defined mind always

1150
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:06,519
knew everything, which I might be wrong, but it sounds a.

1151
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 6: Bit Astorian to me.

1152
01:08:08,519 --> 01:08:12,079
Speaker 15: And then the second interpretition I heard is from Saint

1153
01:08:12,119 --> 01:08:15,400
Cyril of Alexandria, and the way that he interpreted it is.

1154
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,199
Speaker 6: To say that it's not that the Lord Jesus actually

1155
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:21,079
grew in wisdom. It's that it seemed like he grew

1156
01:08:21,119 --> 01:08:22,560
in wisdom from our perspective.

1157
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:25,399
Speaker 15: Just like when the Bible says that he became a curse,

1158
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,399
it's not that he was a real curse. It's just

1159
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,520
it's as if he was a curse. Which interpreation do

1160
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:31,760
you think would fit better?

1161
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:35,239
Speaker 3: I think both can be understood in an orthodox way.

1162
01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:38,319
I understand what Saint Cyril is saying there, But I

1163
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,880
also don't think it's necessarily an historian to say that

1164
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:48,800
the human mind would have undergone increase. So, for example,

1165
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,640
just like his human body, right, his human body underwent change.

1166
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,880
It went from being a baby to being a mature adult.

1167
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,399
So there's nothing wrong with the idea that the human

1168
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:03,560
mind increased in knowledge and in wisdom. So I don't

1169
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,560
see that necessarily as a problem. It could also be

1170
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,680
like the wisdom there, it could be a communicating of

1171
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,720
the grace to the humanity by the divinity. So there

1172
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:17,359
could be a greater participation, you could say. But Caserra

1173
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:22,520
himself says, for example, that after the resurrection, Jesus is

1174
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,239
in a certain sense fully deified, not that he wasn't

1175
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:28,960
deified prior to it, but that he willed to undergo

1176
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:33,079
the blameless passions before the resurrection, but after the resurrection

1177
01:09:33,239 --> 01:09:37,079
his flesh is fully and totally deified. So there is

1178
01:09:37,159 --> 01:09:39,479
some kind of progress, and there is some kind of

1179
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:45,399
communication that's happening between the divinity, the divine person, communicating

1180
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,479
the divine energies to the human nature that he possesses.

1181
01:09:48,119 --> 01:09:49,399
Speaker 5: To grow it.

1182
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 3: I guess you could say, I don't think that's necessarily heretical.

1183
01:09:55,359 --> 01:09:58,560
Speaker 15: I just I just maybe it's because I'm orient or Orthodox,

1184
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,079
and I'm still looking into Orthodoxy because in my opinion,

1185
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,119
the true churches has to be one.

1186
01:10:04,079 --> 01:10:06,039
Speaker 6: Of those two. I'm just on a journey to see,

1187
01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:06,760
like which one it is.

1188
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 12: But I don't know.

1189
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 15: I guess the reason that sounds serious to me is

1190
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,119
like to say that, oh, he knows this in his divine.

1191
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 6: Mind, but not in his human mind. The way that

1192
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:17,439
I look at it is the person, you know, the

1193
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:19,039
Lord Jesus. He either knows it or not.

1194
01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 12: I don't know.

1195
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:20,600
Speaker 6: Maybe I'm wrong.

1196
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 3: In thinking about Well, that's why I think when you

1197
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:27,720
get to the dispute between Cyril and Ument, not serial,

1198
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:32,119
the dispute between Saint Maximus and Peirus, this question comes

1199
01:10:32,159 --> 01:10:36,239
into play because the idea is that it's not that

1200
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,359
a change in the human mind necessitates that he is

1201
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,159
no longer omniscient. That's why we affirm that both things

1202
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:46,840
are true of him, that he has a divine mind

1203
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,800
and a human mind, and we don't make mind a

1204
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:56,119
property of person, it's a property of nature. So this

1205
01:10:56,319 --> 01:10:59,760
is where n hypostatize comes into play, that although mind

1206
01:11:00,039 --> 01:11:05,159
and will are faculties of nature, they exist in the

1207
01:11:05,279 --> 01:11:08,479
mode of the person that has them. So only by

1208
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:15,199
confusing hypostasis versus nature I think would you think that

1209
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,720
that would be the conclusion from what you said?

1210
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 6: Okay, I'll go back and re listen to that, just

1211
01:11:22,039 --> 01:11:22,399
to make sure.

1212
01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:25,359
Speaker 3: What how did you phrase it? What was you said that?

1213
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,760
It would sound a Nestorian to say how did you

1214
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:28,359
phrase it? Again?

1215
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 15: Just to me personally, it sounds a bit of Nestorian

1216
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,920
to say, like, the human mind doesn't know this, but

1217
01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:38,239
the divine mind does know it. It just to me,

1218
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:42,479
it's like giving personal properties to things that are not persons.

1219
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,520
The way to argue is like the person the Lord Jesus,

1220
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:47,520
he either knows it or he doesn't.

1221
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, but see, that's exactly my point is that mind

1222
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:56,640
and will are not hypostatic properties. There are properties of

1223
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,479
nature that exist in the mode of the person's you see,

1224
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,760
that's where there's a different there's a distinction between will

1225
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,079
qua will. Well, all I mean by that is that

1226
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:11,960
something can be the property of a nature, but it

1227
01:12:12,119 --> 01:12:14,439
only exists in the mode of the persons that have

1228
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,920
the nature. So that's why they're there. This is the

1229
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,560
difference between the nature and the mode of the nature.

1230
01:12:20,159 --> 01:12:25,000
And I think that perhaps Orientals confuse those two things.

1231
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:27,880
They they think that we're saying that there's two minds,

1232
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,800
so there's therefore there's two persons because persons that minds

1233
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,960
are therefore properties of persons. But we're saying, no, minds

1234
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,960
are not properties of persons, the properties of nature that

1235
01:12:38,119 --> 01:12:41,159
persons have. So for us, distinction between nature and person

1236
01:12:41,279 --> 01:12:42,199
is the root there.

1237
01:12:43,359 --> 01:12:45,399
Speaker 15: Okay, Now, the reason why I might be a bit

1238
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,439
confused this because I've only been relievous for like a

1239
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,159
little over a year because of launching Censor Moon.

1240
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:53,520
Speaker 6: And you do you have time for one more quession

1241
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:54,000
or yeah?

1242
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 3: And by the way, I would say on this point,

1243
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,479
read the John mcguckan book on Cyril of Alexander and

1244
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:04,359
the Chrystal controversy, and read the Maximus debate with Peerists.

1245
01:13:04,359 --> 01:13:06,560
It's called Disputation with Pearis. It's really short, it's only

1246
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:07,319
like ninety pages.

1247
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1248
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 15: I talked to you before and you recommended thinks cherol

1249
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:15,760
in the uh Alexandria and the the Christ Controversiological.

1250
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, I bought it. I haven't read yet because I'm

1251
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:20,359
still reading the Orthodox Study Lebel.

1252
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 15: I read it once, but I'm rereading it because I

1253
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:24,560
really want to get to know about good and then

1254
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,359
go into like I cimitical councils and the Saints later.

1255
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1256
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,159
Speaker 3: Well, you're always welcome. I'm I enjoy You're a very

1257
01:13:31,239 --> 01:13:34,439
civil Oriental person to dialogue with, so I appreciate it.

1258
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1259
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 15: I'm I might not be so civil in a couple

1260
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:38,960
of years when I get more information.

1261
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 3: Okay, that's fine. I mean I'm not I'm not opposed

1262
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,560
to uh, you know, having these debates. Did you you've

1263
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,319
seen we're on my channel. We're doing an oriental series.

1264
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:49,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, both of them.

1265
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 15: You guys have made some some good point, good points

1266
01:13:52,039 --> 01:13:53,920
that I like have maybe you know, think and come

1267
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,479
up with questions regarding the Christology. But at this point

1268
01:13:57,479 --> 01:13:58,960
I don't know so much about it because I haven't

1269
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:00,640
gone into like the church's, you know. But when I

1270
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,640
get there, all the ask you a little bit more questions.

1271
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:07,000
All lost what I had was about. In Proverbs ninety seven,

1272
01:14:07,079 --> 01:14:10,159
it says that it's wrong to like rebuke a wicked man,

1273
01:14:10,279 --> 01:14:13,479
like a person who rebukes a wicked man only harms himself.

1274
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,239
And then in Job thirty one twenty nine, when Saint

1275
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:20,000
Job is trying to tell God like he's trying to

1276
01:14:20,039 --> 01:14:23,319
think of what sins he's committed, he says, have I

1277
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,880
rejoiced at the destruction of him who hated me? These

1278
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:30,640
verses really confuse me because I don't understand, like, is

1279
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,760
it like is this thing that it's a bad thing

1280
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,800
to rebuke someone who's wicked, or to.

1281
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:35,520
Speaker 6: Like betraying right.

1282
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 3: So, for example, the way that the New King James

1283
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,920
translates Proverbs ninety seven says, he who corrects a scoffer

1284
01:14:44,039 --> 01:14:47,720
gets shame for himself, and he rejects a rebukes a

1285
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,640
wicked man only harms himself. So a lot of times

1286
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,000
in the Proverbs they do a doubling. It's a coupling

1287
01:14:54,079 --> 01:14:56,279
that they do so in other words, scoffer is the same.

1288
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:01,119
The two sentences or phrases are identical, So the scoffer

1289
01:15:01,239 --> 01:15:02,760
is the same thing as the wicked man. So in

1290
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,319
other words, what's meant by wicked man is a scaffer.

1291
01:15:05,359 --> 01:15:08,199
It's like when Jesus says, don't throw your pearls before swine,

1292
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,279
meaning that we have the common sense, hopefully and the

1293
01:15:12,359 --> 01:15:15,279
wisdom to identify when, for example, it's a waste of

1294
01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:18,359
time to engage with a certain person. Right, So let's

1295
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,359
if some guys like, I don't know, just unhinged and

1296
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:24,520
like cussing you out, and like you're not going to

1297
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,840
be able to reason with him, right, So trying to

1298
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,279
rebuke somebody who's unhinged would be a waste of time

1299
01:15:30,359 --> 01:15:32,279
and you're only going to bring harm to yourself. So

1300
01:15:32,319 --> 01:15:35,119
I think that's what's meant in Proverbs ninety seven. It's

1301
01:15:35,199 --> 01:15:40,840
like pearls before swine and then the rejoicing at the

1302
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,199
death of the wicked. I think that there's a way

1303
01:15:43,279 --> 01:15:45,600
that we can understand it in that it is a

1304
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,239
manifestation of divine justice if we get victory over the

1305
01:15:49,279 --> 01:15:51,800
wicked or if a wicked because there's proverbs for example,

1306
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,720
to say, when a wickedman dies, the city rejoices. Right

1307
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:59,000
when a wicked ruler passes away or is defeated, the

1308
01:15:59,039 --> 01:16:01,880
city rejoices. And yet at the same time, we shouldn't

1309
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:07,319
take a unhealthy you know, like pleasure in someone dying.

1310
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,720
And so in some sense both things can be true.

1311
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,800
That we can mourn for the fact that a person

1312
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,399
made in the image of God died, but also we

1313
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:20,399
can be happy that God's justice was manifested in that

1314
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,199
a wicked person is no longer able to exert wickedness.

1315
01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:28,199
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense, and

1316
01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:29,760
I will probably jump back going on like a month

1317
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:30,079
or two.

1318
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:35,159
Speaker 3: Those are good questions, man, what You're welcome. You're welcome anytime.

1319
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:41,600
Bible Guy's dude, Yeah, what's up?

1320
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1321
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 11: Okay, So I have two questions. One of them is

1322
01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:48,720
kind of related to the JQ.

1323
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:50,159
Speaker 10: I don't know if we want to get into that

1324
01:16:50,319 --> 01:16:50,439
or not.

1325
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,560
Speaker 3: Well, I'm on YouTube, so we got to be kind

1326
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:57,319
of we're gonna we're gonna abide by the YouTube guidelines.

1327
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 10: Okay, I think I might.

1328
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,319
Speaker 3: Be able to Does this relate to the topics or

1329
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:05,279
you're telling geopolitics? We're not doing geopolitics tonight.

1330
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 10: Oh that's fine.

1331
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 6: Then I have another one that.

1332
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 11: Is, so I know that Okay, so you used to

1333
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,319
be Reformed and that he became Catholic and now Io.

1334
01:17:15,119 --> 01:17:18,399
Speaker 10: So I'm just curious, do you no longer believe in

1335
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:19,000
like the.

1336
01:17:19,079 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 11: Reformed doctrines like federal headship and like.

1337
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 10: The Covenant of Works Covenant of grace.

1338
01:17:25,119 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 3: So there is a sense in which individual men represent

1339
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,399
their families, and that is a biblical concept. I don't

1340
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,920
believe the Covenant of Works is a biblical concept. No,

1341
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,199
that doesn't exist. And in fact, it would be either

1342
01:17:40,279 --> 01:17:43,159
an historian or it would be a position of created

1343
01:17:43,239 --> 01:17:47,199
grace to say that Jesus merited the status that he had.

1344
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,600
He didn't have to merit the status he had because

1345
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,680
he was the son of God and a divine person

1346
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,000
from all eternity, and so as soon as he was incarnate,

1347
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:59,880
he deified the human nature that he had. There was

1348
01:18:00,199 --> 01:18:04,239
no fulfilling of this degree of like merits that he

1349
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:06,680
had to you know, pay off God the Father. That's

1350
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,279
also anti trinitarian to say that there's a payment between

1351
01:18:09,319 --> 01:18:11,960
one divine person and another, and it's actually part and

1352
01:18:12,039 --> 01:18:14,880
parcel of the Calvinist and Lutheran in a classical Reformation

1353
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:17,800
doctrine that the son was damned on the cross, which

1354
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:19,399
is anti Trinitarian.

1355
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:25,600
Speaker 11: Okay, and then what Okay, I'm kind of confused about

1356
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:28,560
it because I've been like reformed for a while and

1357
01:18:29,239 --> 01:18:31,640
I'm starting to see some problems with their views of

1358
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,439
this stuff. So I'm just curious, what is the Eastern

1359
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:37,279
And I've watched some of your videos, so I know.

1360
01:18:37,279 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 10: A little bit.

1361
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 11: But do you guys believe infants receive like the effect

1362
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,399
of original sin or also the guilt.

1363
01:18:46,039 --> 01:18:48,159
Speaker 3: I was not believe in inherited guilt, and in fact,

1364
01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:51,039
no one in the world believes in inherited guilt except

1365
01:18:51,119 --> 01:18:55,520
for Calvinists and maybe Lutheran's, so that's no other religion.

1366
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:57,239
Rom mcalleys don't even believe in it.

1367
01:18:58,399 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's crazy. I can't it around it. It's like

1368
01:19:01,399 --> 01:19:04,119
it's pulling me and I don't know. I'm just trying to.

1369
01:19:04,079 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 3: Figure this out.

1370
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 10: But I've noticed, like.

1371
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 11: Like even the Baptists are quoting like some Eastern Orthodox

1372
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:16,119
Church fathers because there's some Baptists that don't believe in

1373
01:19:16,199 --> 01:19:17,119
inherited guilt too.

1374
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,079
Speaker 3: So well, I mean the the scriptures make it very

1375
01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:22,359
clear that you're not guilty for the sins of your

1376
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:26,119
father's right. Ezekiel says that, so how do we reconcile

1377
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:29,880
that with the passages that people think teach inherit to guilt,

1378
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,399
like Romans five. Well, if you look at, for example,

1379
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:37,840
Mayandorff's critique of Augustine's take on Romans five, Augustine was

1380
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,760
the first person to think that Romans five taught inherited

1381
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,159
guilt because Augustine thought that we are all in Adam

1382
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:45,520
as in an archetype, and so because we were quote

1383
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,159
in Adam as in an archetype, when Adam sinned, we

1384
01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:50,960
are also therefore guilty of adam sinn. But that's not

1385
01:19:51,079 --> 01:19:53,239
actually what past the passage in Romans five says. It

1386
01:19:53,319 --> 01:19:57,680
actually says that because Adam sinned, all will sin. It

1387
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,159
does not say they all sin in him. It's is

1388
01:20:00,199 --> 01:20:02,600
because we are in him, we will sin. In other words,

1389
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:04,399
we will eventually get to a point in our lives

1390
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,800
where we commit an actual sin. That's why James says

1391
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,840
that you're not guilty until you consent to the desire.

1392
01:20:13,039 --> 01:20:16,039
James says, the desire when it's consented to, when it

1393
01:20:16,079 --> 01:20:19,600
gives birth, it gives birth to sin. But if James

1394
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:23,680
was teaching what inherited guilt teachers say, James would say

1395
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,159
the desire itself is the sin. But he doesn't say that.

1396
01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, sure, And I know you had a video.

1397
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,399
Speaker 11: I've been watching it a few times about like Calvinism

1398
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:34,239
and original sin.

1399
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 10: So I'll just kind of try to keep going through that.

1400
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,239
Speaker 3: I've got a multiple if you go to my clips channel,

1401
01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:44,439
Jay Dyer Livestreams and Absurdities, I've got two multi hour

1402
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:49,279
lectures about Calvinism and Tulip. I've got a whole lecture

1403
01:20:49,319 --> 01:20:53,960
on cotails channel about Calvinism and Tulip. I've got multiple

1404
01:20:54,119 --> 01:20:56,720
lectures on my I mean, I've got out the wazoo

1405
01:20:57,039 --> 01:20:57,760
on this. Yeah.

1406
01:20:58,239 --> 01:21:01,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, And I guess last question, and I'll ask, is

1407
01:21:02,279 --> 01:21:07,760
is there a church father that like specifically talks about

1408
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:12,239
how we can receive like the effects of Adam's sin, but.

1409
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 10: Not the guilt.

1410
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,279
Speaker 11: You know, where they really specifically talk about not inheriting

1411
01:21:16,319 --> 01:21:16,760
as guilt.

1412
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,039
Speaker 3: I would say any church father that talks about it

1413
01:21:20,119 --> 01:21:23,000
before Augustine or any church father in the East, none

1414
01:21:23,039 --> 01:21:25,439
of them teach inherited guilt. Augustine is the first to

1415
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:25,680
do that.

1416
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 10: Okay, all right, well cool, well, thank you, I appreciate it.

1417
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 3: So I would just look up like in Against Heresies

1418
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:37,199
right where perhaps when he executes Romans five, you could

1419
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:42,960
look up Chris system on Romans five. I mean, there's

1420
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:47,439
a whole passage from Saint Photius where he's critiquing the

1421
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:52,000
Augustinian position that infants have inherited guilt. Just look up

1422
01:21:52,039 --> 01:21:55,800
Photius Augustine, Romans five and you should get the Orthodox

1423
01:21:55,880 --> 01:22:04,159
Ethos website that has an article on that. Marco, Hey, jay,

1424
01:22:04,279 --> 01:22:05,680
but thank you so much for taking my call.

1425
01:22:06,399 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 6: I have a quod question. Is there kind of a

1426
01:22:08,079 --> 01:22:08,600
reason why?

1427
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 10: Like there's one sort of verse in the Corona.

1428
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 5: It's very kind of.

1429
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:13,640
Speaker 28: Damning, and it basically says something along the lines of

1430
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,279
make God kill me if I'm not like a true

1431
01:22:17,319 --> 01:22:19,319
prophet or whatever like slice the a order. And then

1432
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:22,000
there's also like hydiez I talk about Mohammad when he dies,

1433
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,000
like have of the feeling about I think is a

1434
01:22:24,279 --> 01:22:25,119
ord being ripped.

1435
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:25,520
Speaker 4: Out or something like that?

1436
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:27,079
Speaker 10: Is there kind of a reason why that's not brought

1437
01:22:27,119 --> 01:22:27,840
up into bates more?

1438
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 3: I've forgot mentioned a couple of times. What what what

1439
01:22:34,119 --> 01:22:36,159
do you think is important about that to bring.

1440
01:22:36,119 --> 01:22:39,239
Speaker 28: Up well, because it basically inside the Qurana basically was

1441
01:22:39,279 --> 01:22:41,920
that this is a falsification of Mohamad's prophethood if it

1442
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,680
were to happen, and then later in the Hidisas thatth

1443
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:47,359
that it actually happens. So it basically it's almost the

1444
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:49,520
kna be predicting Mahomet's falsification.

1445
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I should be brought up more.

1446
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:56,039
Speaker 28: I just it's just kind of a thing that I

1447
01:22:56,159 --> 01:22:58,239
was thinking right too. And then another thing too that's

1448
01:22:58,279 --> 01:22:59,840
kind of funny is I don't know what your thoughts

1449
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:01,640
are a star too. But I think I noticed is

1450
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,479
that whenever they critique the writing of the Gospels as

1451
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:08,560
being later, it seems to me extremely unjustified to the

1452
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:10,600
fact that if you look when most are written, they're

1453
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:11,560
written like over.

1454
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:13,399
Speaker 6: Two hundred years later after Muhammad.

1455
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,319
Speaker 28: So how can they critique the Gospels for being written

1456
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:17,960
like sixty seven years later.

1457
01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:20,520
Speaker 14: When the Haydees explaining what Muhammad hads.

1458
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 28: Or what he says or supporting the Kuran, we're written

1459
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:23,800
over two hundred years later.

1460
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, that's a great point.

1461
01:23:26,319 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 28: And so if you don't mind me asking, I just

1462
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:30,680
asking picking your brain.

1463
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 6: So one thing is this is slightly more on the

1464
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:33,600
debate's side.

1465
01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 28: You said you would be like kind of more on

1466
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,960
the young Earth creation side. So I assume it probably

1467
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,279
would come from more like a philosophical thing, because how.

1468
01:23:42,239 --> 01:23:43,399
Speaker 6: Would you respond to the claim.

1469
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 28: But like, for example, we can see things that are

1470
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:47,720
over eight thousand light years.

1471
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 3: Away, Well, it's assuming that that traveled. Uh you know

1472
01:23:54,079 --> 01:23:56,359
that it wasn't that the light, that the universe wasn't

1473
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,880
created with the light already quote being here.

1474
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha.

1475
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 28: And like what about when it comes to things like

1476
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:04,880
carbon dating, So it's like I could carbon date things

1477
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:07,000
that are, for example, older than eight thousand years.

1478
01:24:07,279 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's also a lot of critiques of carbon

1479
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,159
dating being unreliable, and on top of that, in my understanding,

1480
01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:17,039
carbon dating also assumes the thing in question that for example,

1481
01:24:17,159 --> 01:24:21,119
it takes these millions of years for this radioactive decay

1482
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:23,399
to happen. So that would be my critique.

1483
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 28: So that fills love with soilich from my surety, those

1484
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:27,560
love with a particular.

1485
01:24:27,239 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 6: Basically be the justification of circular.

1486
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's assuming the lengthy time that would be the

1487
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,199
thing in question from my vantage point, Okay.

1488
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:39,119
Speaker 28: Thank you, and if you don't, might have one another

1489
01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:41,479
question as well. So when it comes to like, what's

1490
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,960
you ever debate somebody like Fuin Shapiro or Charlie Kirk

1491
01:24:44,119 --> 01:24:45,479
kind of more regards to when it comes.

1492
01:24:45,359 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 3: Like faith, Yeah, I in fact I have multiple times

1493
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:52,439
asked Ben Shapiro to debate, and one of the one

1494
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:54,920
of the tweets got I don't know a thousand likes

1495
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:56,239
and I don't remember how many shares.

1496
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,399
Speaker 28: So yeah, because when when Rogan did the thing with

1497
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,720
Wes if I watched her last year, we went over that,

1498
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:03,319
I was actually one of the firstes to comment, and

1499
01:25:03,319 --> 01:25:04,039
I was like, they can have.

1500
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 6: Because he does a really good.

1501
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:08,560
Speaker 28: Because I think West is obviously like you know, he's

1502
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,199
like apologist is kind of the wrong I guess what

1503
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:11,600
do you call it?

1504
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 10: It's like the wrong area expertise.

1505
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,399
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, yeah, focus as you say.

1506
01:25:16,119 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 28: So, I think it's kind of cool because I think,

1507
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,039
like I actually a couple of months ago, I was like,

1508
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:22,800
because I'm a Roman Castlic and I was trained to Orthodoxy,

1509
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:25,239
your stuff has definitely been very appealing and.

1510
01:25:25,199 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 12: Stuff like that.

1511
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:27,199
Speaker 28: And so when you mentioned the things from body, and

1512
01:25:27,239 --> 01:25:29,039
one and two started looking at that and I was like, okay,

1513
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:31,640
so I started going to somewhere to bind lurgies and

1514
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:34,319
it's it's been very that's good.

1515
01:25:34,359 --> 01:25:34,560
Speaker 6: Many.

1516
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,520
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. And thanks for mentioning my name and

1517
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,039
the do you mentioned on comments or something?

1518
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 12: Yeah?

1519
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 28: Yeah, I mean I just commented a pumpish of tags.

1520
01:25:43,119 --> 01:25:45,720
But but now I just imagine one to say basically,

1521
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:46,560
thank you for your service.

1522
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1523
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. I would love to, you know, go on there

1524
01:25:50,239 --> 01:25:53,119
and do you have a you know, some kind of

1525
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:55,840
a representation, you know, at the level of a rogan

1526
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:00,479
that's not you know, Baptist type stuff like what I

1527
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,920
think I think west Up's a Baptist nail? What's up?

1528
01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:22,920
You want to unmute? Nael? Do you want to unmute?

1529
01:26:23,399 --> 01:26:29,600
I guess we lost him. Confused, by the way, if

1530
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,279
you want to hop on the stream, if you liked

1531
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:34,520
the scream the stream, if you like to debate, hit

1532
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,319
the request to speak and I'll bring you up. Confused.

1533
01:26:39,159 --> 01:26:43,520
Speaker 29: Hey, Jay, So I wanted to ask have you looked

1534
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:44,520
at the channel harmony?

1535
01:26:46,279 --> 01:26:47,600
Speaker 6: Are you familiar with that channel?

1536
01:26:48,159 --> 01:26:48,600
Speaker 3: What's up?

1537
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:53,560
Speaker 29: He's an orthodox YouTuber, but he does like the story

1538
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:56,560
kind of. He tells stories of different saints and then

1539
01:26:56,600 --> 01:27:03,840
he tells stories of different theologies. Do you know so

1540
01:27:04,279 --> 01:27:06,279
I want to make a YouTube channel like his? Do

1541
01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:10,600
you have any resources like books? Because I know you

1542
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:13,800
have a video about specific books to read, but do

1543
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:19,439
you have any like, let's say, beautiful stories. Books are

1544
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:21,920
about beautiful stories that you know of that you can

1545
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:23,840
share so I can so I can like read.

1546
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:25,279
Speaker 6: Them and then make make a video about it.

1547
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:29,279
Speaker 3: I mean, like lives that when you say beautiful stories,

1548
01:27:29,319 --> 01:27:30,800
what do you mean like lives the Saints or what

1549
01:27:31,039 --> 01:27:31,640
are you talking about?

1550
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, it could be Lives of the Saints. The

1551
01:27:36,079 --> 01:27:38,279
YouTube the YouTube channel harmony. He has done one about like.

1552
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:39,640
Speaker 4: The Youth of the Apocalypse.

1553
01:27:41,119 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 3: Let me see what other ones Youth of the Apocalypse

1554
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,600
or Truth of the Apocalypse.

1555
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 6: The Truth of the Apocalypse. He did one about Saint Pasius.

1556
01:27:50,399 --> 01:27:51,199
Speaker 10: He did one.

1557
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:54,600
Speaker 3: What is a truth Apocalypse?

1558
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 12: Is it?

1559
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 3: Is that a story?

1560
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 12: It's a it's a book?

1561
01:27:58,319 --> 01:27:59,760
Speaker 6: Okay, I think it's a book.

1562
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 4: And then she like adapted it to a video.

1563
01:28:02,119 --> 01:28:05,520
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I've got it pulled up. I'm not familiar

1564
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:07,119
with this, but I'm looking at it.

1565
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 29: His videos are beautiful if you want to listen to

1566
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,279
them or watch them, but I don't know.

1567
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 4: I can come back later on.

1568
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it looks like it looks like he

1569
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,920
puts a lot of time into it looks really well done. Unfortunately,

1570
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:24,840
I don't have any good recommendations on like stories or

1571
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:32,600
something like that. Okay, all, yeah, I appreciate it. It

1572
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:37,680
does sound like an appropriate type of way to reach people, though,

1573
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,000
I think, you know, the way we talk about stuff

1574
01:28:42,039 --> 01:28:44,039
and do stuff, you know, it appeals to a certain

1575
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:48,399
kind of demographic and niche and it's not for everybody,

1576
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:50,960
and that's fine that not everybody has to be interested

1577
01:28:51,039 --> 01:28:55,000
in philosophy and argumentation and this kind of stuff. It's it's,

1578
01:28:55,199 --> 01:28:58,119
you know, it's for a certain special type of low boy,

1579
01:28:58,239 --> 01:29:02,079
fast boy. David Know, we did that one, Koshaba from

1580
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:04,000
New Zealand, thank you so much. I think I missed

1581
01:29:04,039 --> 01:29:06,079
somebody else's super chat. Hold on, I forgot to read

1582
01:29:06,159 --> 01:29:14,479
this one. Harry Sarpano's ten dollars Why are Muslims evangelized? No,

1583
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:17,319
we did that one. Excuse me, we did that one, Cody, No,

1584
01:29:17,399 --> 01:29:24,439
we did that. Here we go, sincere hypocrite. Five dollars

1585
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,800
if Allah's word is incorruptible, and the Torah and the

1586
01:29:28,039 --> 01:29:30,239
ngail are Allah's word. Then aren't the torreh and the

1587
01:29:30,359 --> 01:29:31,479
jail not corrupt?

1588
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 6: Yes?

1589
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 3: And one of the hadiths, of course, that Shamun has

1590
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,399
pointed out and his old articles actually backs up that

1591
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:44,279
very view exactly. Eric Zee five bucks was Jesus meaning

1592
01:29:44,319 --> 01:29:46,760
to create a way to connect to God without church.

1593
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,359
Some chick in the chat as talking smack no, because

1594
01:29:50,399 --> 01:29:53,319
he set up a church, right, Matthew is sixteen eighteen,

1595
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,520
Matthew eighteen Right, The church is the kingdom that he's

1596
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:00,760
setting up. The apostles are the princes of the new Jerusalem,

1597
01:30:02,319 --> 01:30:08,479
Jojo five dollars. The Quran becomes the criterion over the prior. Well,

1598
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,279
that's what they do in their mistake or in their

1599
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:15,079
apologetic But then the Quran itself says that the prior

1600
01:30:15,119 --> 01:30:20,119
should judge the Koran on the prior. Isn't Allah affirming

1601
01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:20,600
a circle?

1602
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 6: Yes?

1603
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely, This is what I said in the debate with

1604
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:34,720
Daniel Haikikitch. You seems like the reconciliation is through a circle,

1605
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:38,920
and that isn't one. It is a circle because the

1606
01:30:39,039 --> 01:30:42,239
Quran is supposed to be confirmed by what came before,

1607
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,000
but what came before contradicts it, and so you throw

1608
01:30:45,119 --> 01:30:49,119
out what's in what came before by the what the

1609
01:30:49,239 --> 01:30:52,840
Kuran says. So it's like it's very simple. It's like,

1610
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:56,520
what does Joseph Smith do? I have the New revelation

1611
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:01,159
and it's it's consistent with the Chris revelation that came before.

1612
01:31:01,359 --> 01:31:03,640
Well wait a minute, Joseph, the Christian revelation that came

1613
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:07,359
before is not consistent with your new Book of Mormon,

1614
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:11,199
and blah blah blah. Oh, that's because it's corrupted. How

1615
01:31:11,239 --> 01:31:13,720
do I know where it's corrupted everywhere that it doesn't

1616
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:15,359
agree with the Book of Mormon. I mean, this is

1617
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:19,159
not that hard JV Three two dollars. Don't forget the

1618
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:24,159
varying creation timelines you told me in the Book of Mormon.

1619
01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:28,760
I mean the in the Quran. Stephen Pagan, Stephen Pagan

1620
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:33,079
five bucks. Is there a Macedonian Orthodox Church? There is

1621
01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:38,319
one near me, and I'm learning leaning Orthodox. Are they

1622
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:39,600
seen as legitimate?

1623
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:40,359
Speaker 4: I think so.

1624
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:41,640
Speaker 3: I don't think they're in any skil