Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.
Speaker 2: Oh oh now, okay, we we can. Let's do that
one more time.
Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.
Speaker 2: Oh crap, hold on, what do you want me to say?
Right after that?
Speaker 1: From Hatchet act from and then I'll say, you're listening right?
Speaker 2: Sounds good?
Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and oh this is why I'm
the leader. This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from
Hatchet Axon Saw Records. You are listening to the Matt
Connerton Show on w m n H ninety five point
three Manchester.
Speaker 4: Actually, what did I say?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, let's do this again. Let's
do this again.
Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from Hatchet Axon
Saw Records.
Speaker 1: You are listening to Matt Connerton Unleashed on ninety five
to three w NA. Dude, this is Jesse Rutstein.
Speaker 2: And Caleb Dyer from Hatchet ax and Saw Records.
Speaker 3: You are listening to Matt Connorton Unleashed on ninety five
point three w m n H.
Speaker 5: F M.
Speaker 6: Founded forever like number connessa, I know that wherever you go.
Speaker 7: That's the distance, and you find the difference so much
less than you know. I said the cognitive Sundra sen
n r instead.
Speaker 6: And my love on the break the ships, I still
say no thoughts have to say.
Speaker 7: It is let me read of distance between us, and
still I cannot let you go.
Speaker 8: Lp making notions and sicklical motions.
Speaker 6: See how the watters got.
Speaker 9: Leave in my love on the shop fly home to
answer a cold.
Speaker 6: Days of confusion, the black.
Speaker 8: Dallusion, weirdest int the shot through from b des intention
to see revelation about it.
Speaker 5: It is open to you.
Speaker 10: Oh that is okay, And I love the guitar work
in that the track is Nebuchadnezzar, and that is Paul Nasol.
I will ask him though, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Paul,
are you there?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm there. I know you're not.
Speaker 10: No, okay, how do you say your name?
Speaker 5: It's Nasole?
Speaker 10: Oh, Nazole? Okay, because you are you're you're gets a
lot of different things. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, because
you're of I was reading about you. So you're you're
from Liverpool, right, but you're of Italian descent, So that
the name is Italian. I assume right, that's right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a scouse.
Speaker 10: Gotcha, gotcha. I love that song a lot. And is
that you obviously that's your singing? Is that also you
on guitar?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do some of the guitar. But there's also
a guy called Robert Johnson on the guitar there as well. Okay,
he's a great player. Actually he's actually Ginger Baker's nephew.
Would you believe kidding? Yeah, yeah, cream tu bumbed. It
sounds at the clockedon actually doesn't it as well?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Oh that's oh that's wild. Yeah, oh cool, very very
very nice. Yeah, being are you do you currently still
live in Liverpool?
Speaker 5: Yeah at the minute, Yeah, I'm sorts of brunching out
a little bit, but uh yeah, looking to uh it's
got a little bit further field. But being never Pool
most of my life.
Speaker 10: I'm curious about and I you won't be the first
person I've asked this question of, but like, is there
is there a certain pressure that comes with being a
musician from a place that is so well known for
uh you know, you know, in terms of of kind
of being it's I feel like Liverpool is almost kind
of like this this musical center of the universe within
that part of the world. What's that like being there
in that music scene.
Speaker 5: It's great, yeah, you know, it's very incense as well.
It can be a little bit of a bubble all
of its own, you know, which I imagine a lot
of those places are like Nashville and stuff, you know,
I mentioned they're all a little bit like that.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of great things to be said
for it. Man, you know, a lot of a lot
of musicians. You know, everyone seems to play guitar. There
used to be an old saying back in the nineties.
He used to save you from Liverpool. You either play football,
you play guitar, or you were you know, you're up
to no good, right, right, the young fool, you know.
But it's changing a lot. You know, the city has
changed a lot over the last twenty years. It's a
it used to be quite a poor city. Now it's
kind of it's growing a lot.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 10: Oh, that's good, expanding, that's good. Did you start playing
guitar and singing at a young age?
Speaker 5: Not really, now. I was also interested in the arts
in all different ways, you know, like writing and acting,
and poetry, and I got into guitar probably about seventeen
something like that. I played a bit of keyboards, a
lover the bass, but it was really a little bit
later on. But it's sours of took over, you know.
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's unusual. But I assume you know,
once you started playing, you probably picked it up quickly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it. I was kind of possessed by it,
you know, and yeah, very obsessed.
Speaker 10: You had played. Did you start out on keyboard?
Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit of keyboards, I think I and
you know, I say play keyboard, I think I could
play Van Halen Jump, Yeah, Moonlight sonata, yeah, and like,
you know, one or two other bits.
Speaker 10: And now the reason I was the reason I was
curious is I've heard so many music professors and instructors
say over the years that no matter what you intend
to play for an instrument, you should learn some just
some basic keyboard first, because yeah, and I didn't do that.
I didn't do that. I wish I had, But I've
just heard so many people say that because it, you know,
it teaches you how to in your mind sort of
put chords together, and and what you learn from the
keyboard will help you with any other instrument that you play.
Speaker 5: I can imagine that. It's also like visually you can
kind of see what's happening in regards you know, the
space between the notes and things like that, you.
Speaker 10: Know exactly exactly.
Speaker 5: So you know, I'm writing on I'm sort of writing
but on piano at the minute. And it's also very different,
you know. You know, Guitar can sort of be a
very mechanical sort you know, like you kind of hunched
around this thing. It's comfortable to play, of course, but
you know you are kind of like, you know, hunt
around it, and it's a little bit more physical, where
piano you kind of can sit down and it's all
there in frontier. You know. It's like when I've I've
sometimes have some problems with me jointing my fingers and
so piano I can still play just fine, you know,
but guitar can be a little bit more taxing, sure,
just because I played far too much guitar, you know.
Speaker 10: Now, So tell us about the single nebkid Nezzar, and
I imagine it's probably doing pretty well over there, right.
It's such a great track.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think in Liverpool, you know, in Liverpool, a
lot of people know the words to it actually and stuff.
You know. It's actually it's got a very you know,
it's got a flavor that seems very Liverpool to me.
And I guess, you know, mostly when I play locally,
it's it's acoustic, and the song works really nice acoustically
stripped back, you know, it sounds a little bit more
Beatles when you when we recorded it, but yeah when
we when I play it, you know, locally, and it's
more stripped back, it's got more of like a folky
sort of feel, you know. And yeah, it did. You know,
you can always tell a good song, you know. This
seems to resonate with people. You can see it very quickly,
you know, especially with the musicians, so to see their
eyes light up, you know. And it's funny actually because
it was one of those songs that I wrote very quickly.
It all just came out in one go. And you know,
I used to be able to do a lot more
when I was younger. Right now is a little bit
more ponderous, you know, but but yeah, there's something to
be said for it. I think those songs that come
out very quickly, you sort of channel them, you know.
Speaker 10: Well, also too. If if people are learning the words,
you know, if you're playing it at shows and people
know the words, then you know, it's really resonating, you.
Speaker 5: Know, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent, because you know,
you get you get songs which are like very pleasant
to listen to, you know, but but when it's got
that catchy thing, there's there's something to be said. And
that's kind of you know, that's a you I kind
of have on on art as well, like in poetry
and and stuff. I think I read it. It was
a guy in like the twenties or something was like
critiquing the modernist poets, you know, T s Elliotts and
people like that, and he was saying that, you know,
the flowery language and the mastery of language that these
guys had was amazing, and he didn't want to critique that,
but he said, there's something beautiful about sort of the
folk poetry of rhyme, which is that like children could
recite this stuff around the fire, you know, and yeah,
and it stuck in the mind and it furnished their
minds with beautiful words, you know, and and there was
something really nice about that. And I think songs can
have that there's room for everything, but there's something to
be said that type of stuff, you know, And that's
I always try and put a bit of focus on
on rhyme. And I always think if you can say
what you're trying to say and make it rhyme, then
maybe you're onto something, you know.
Speaker 10: Right, right? Absolutely? So, can you tell us more about
the single Nebuchadnezzar. Where where does it come from? And
what are the themes are exploring in the song?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's sort of about, like, you know, first
of all, I guess it's like it felt like to
me like it was coming to grips with a lot
of stuff, a lot of like troubles and confusion. That
was like a central theme to it, you know. And
never connessed himself, the old King of Babylon. Here he
was tormented by dreams, you know, and he's this sort
of conflicting figure who God punishes but also seems to
love because he lets him be redeemed, you know. And
that was what sort of I like the idea, and
it's just a great way, doesn't it from that way?
Straight away? You know? And yeah, so it was like
sort of going through it in my own life. It
was a very confusing time. I was I had a
kid on the way. I was also going through a
new relationship with a musician which was total chaos, and
so yeah, it was like, I guess, the confusing time
in my life, and it all came came about from that.
And also it was when I was quite like getting
back into music. Really it was when I was saying,
see that I got back to it and I used
to run a music venue for a long time, really
taken me away from performing. Yeah, it was a great
famous old place. Actually it was a recording studio that
it turned into a bar so where cold Play recorded
two albums actually, amongst others. Yeah, it was great pastory studios.
It was called it Got It Got Bulldoze. Unfortunately, I
would have been quite happy to to try and buy
the venue and life different paths, but instead, when it closed,
I thought, well, maybe I'll try music again instead. And
so for me, NEBC also represents like the start of
an adventure, you know, And I think that it kind
of sounds like that a little bit. You know. I
like the trumpet, and we added some trumpet in a Yes,
the trump always makes you think it's like a herald.
You know, it's like it does.
Speaker 10: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 5: The king is coming to town and the trumpet plays
the leagle.
Speaker 6: You know that's right.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't even thought of that, but
you're right. H yeah. The production, the product, the production
is fantastic. Uh now who did you who did you
work with on that? As far as uh production? And
is it the same? Is it the same for the
entire album? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Mostly it's It was a mixed bire gat and recorded
by a guy called Russell Cottier Soundhouse Recording Studio, which
is an amazing old recording studio, a little hidden gem
actually in Liverpool, not many people seem to know about.
And it was in my hometown, which was just was
really what drew me to. I thought like there was nice,
something nice about that being close to home, and yeah,
Russells done a great job. But actually there was some
of the parts we recorded at another studio as well,
like a home studio, and I think that was the
thiddle parts and some of the harmony parts were recorded
externally from a previous attempt at recording the single. But
like you know, that's the thing. It was like budgets
and stuff defeated. That was a bit of mimister done
what I could do. So when we got the chance to,
I got picked up with a manager, Fuel the Fire,
and they produced the album for oh wow. So having
a bit of a budget and stuff together and a
bigger a bigger crew of musicians to draw from and stuff, right,
we had another go out and put it together and
I'm pretty happy with that. I'd like to record an
acoustic version of it with a flute or something, but
oh yeah, it means to have happened yet.
Speaker 10: And now this is Is this your first this album?
Is this your first release as a solo artist?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, there was a couple of like basic singles
put out in from home studios, but this is the
first proper release really. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Okay, Now, now were you playing in bands before? I
know you mentioned you kind of took a break too
from playing because you're running running a venue, But prior
to that, were you playing in bands or maybe during that?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, for a long time, from like say seventeen to
twenty five, I was always mostly as a league guitarist,
never as a singer. Oh really, I've done a lot
of rights, Yeah, I've done a lot of writing for
chords and things like that. But I've got a couple
of other project coming out. Actually, so did a lot
of collaborations and league guitar and bands with tons of
people in Liverpool. But yeah, never really put it forward
as you know, as an artist in my own right.
So this was the first time to really try and
do that, you know, because in Liverpool had sort of
been that kind of character. I was kind of someone
who like brought things together, you know, sort of hosting
up on mics and putting on events and sure, and
so a lot of my stuff that I'd done was
really all about collaboration and community, and so it was
nice to finally do something that was kind of like, well,
this is more about me being an artist now, you know.
Speaker 10: Was that always kind of the goal even when you
were playing in bands consistently. Was it always kind of
in the back of your mind that you would eventually
do a solo album.
Speaker 5: No, never, really, I don't think I really had the
belief or the confidence, you know. And then I think
as I was getting older in the venue didn't wearhouse,
I thought, you know, you better do something, you know, right,
And also, you know, it was also that kind of
thing of you know, like, ultimately, you've got to take
your destiny in your own hands, haven't you. So I'd
played with a lot of bands that I thought was great,
but for one reason or another that they wouldn't work out,
and you know, you would dependent on four or five
other people being on the same page. So just by necessity,
it was like, what if I want to have a
real go with this, I'm gonna have to do it
for myself. You know.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's the hardest thing I think about being in
a band is you know, I've I've been in a
lot of bands, and it's it's hard when you because
you've got people with varying degrees of commitment and and yeah,
you know, and in terms of what their vision is
for for what you're doing, and and it's, uh, that
can be really challenging. Plus you got to deal with
everyone's schedules and whatnot. So there's so many things, you know, Yeah,
there's so many musicians we've.
Speaker 5: Had, you know, people people have kids, and you know,
everything and it can change things, you.
Speaker 10: Know exactly, and also people.
Speaker 5: People see it. You know, for me, it's very important,
you know, it's the kind of stuff I just think
about all the time, you know, not just just music,
but also like writing little poems and things. You know,
it's just sort of how I live, you know. And
it also sorts of occurred to me in the end
that it's unrealistic to expect anyone else to have that
same right, right, but maybe you know.
Speaker 10: Now you did mention, so you're gonna be doing going forward.
You are going to be doing some more collaborating though,
So I like, what what's kind of the is the
solo Is the solo stuff that you're doing, is that
kind of the main priority and the other things are
ancillary or or I think.
Speaker 5: I'll do them. I'll do them as a you know,
under my own name, as a collaboration maybe with with
some of the artists I'm looking I'm actually planning at
the minute to go to a sort of farm on
the Southwest and do something kind of routine, you know,
with a maybe live take a little bit of it.
Because there's two dimensions to me. I supposed to grew
up as a bit of a rock but as I've
got old and I've sorted to become a bit poky. Yeah,
I guess be hard to talk with the two. But
I feel like with the album, I was able to
get a lot of the rock stuff helped me system.
And now I'd like to do something maybe a little
bit more routine and sure, you know, and also, you know,
like a lot of the stuff on the album it's
a little bit I don't know, like the subject matters
and stuff, and often a little bit self indulgent. You know,
it's offing about nothing about me. I'd like to do
something maybe a little bit more about the world. You know, notice,
but if it's a crazy time in the world.
Speaker 10: You know, I've noticed, especially where you are. Man, you know,
you're you're not getting dude, You're not kidding.
Speaker 5: And also you know, like also like the rise of
AI and stuff like that, and you know, I don't
even want to I don't even want to put you know,
value ridgings and everything. I just kind of want to
maybe step back and just observe and just sort of
write what I'm seeing, you know, not you know, not
try and get pretty earth and but you know, just
sort of say what I see.
Speaker 10: You know, is that something that you're concerned about AI
in terms of because that's something we talk about a
lot on the show.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you brought it up, and I've had some
radical thoughts on it lately. That's pissed a few people off,
you know, but I kind of think, you know, you know,
the two ways I could criticize it is like the
technological sides, you know, and what that means for the
industry and that. But really, you know, you know, I
know a lot of successful bands now we're playing to
backend tracks, and and you know, a lot of people
using plugins instead of real instruments, and and a lot
of people you know, like like there's drum machines out there,
there's I mean, the way the line is, I'm not
sure anymore. So that was one side of thoughts about
the technologically. I was like, maybe actually this is just
something that's always happened. And then the other side of
it was kind of about authenticity. But I really I thought,
you know, like looking at the state of the you know,
like I always say, Sabrina Carpenter might as well be AI,
you know, it's like, I don't know what. And also
even the politicians are all fake, you know, and and
everything seems kind of a little bit in authentic in
the world, and so that doesn't really scare me. I
feel like artists have got something to say are still
going to stand out, you know, So I don't know,
maybe their eye isn't really something to be feared. I
personally don't feel all two threatened by it. You know. Also,
the industry has been in the industry has been in
a bit of a bad way for a long time,
hasn't it, in regards to making any money and stuff
in the way Spotify, you know. I see that with
Spotify a lot. You know, Like when I was trying
to promote the album, I'd sort of fall prey to
these things on social media, and you'd see these guys
and they'd be talking about, you know, how to promote
your music. And people were getting very good at like
gaming the system almost, you know, so they could get
on these playlists and and and these guys had like
millions of plays. But when I listened to the music,
I was like, it's so mediocre. I know, that's just
my taste, but from my point of view, I was like,
you know, this music must have millions of plays, but
what does that even mean. I don't think anyone's going
to care about this in ten years time, So what
are we even doing here? Anymore. And so really with
the I I think I'm thinking, what does it really change?
Like what, there's a load of fake music, Well, there's
all idea, a load of fake music made by humans,
you know, right, maybe this is going to shake the
tree a little bit, you know, and maybe maybe it's
going to be okay, but really, you know it's not.
It's you know, I think there's more to fit if
from AI for then how it's going to affect music, you.
Speaker 10: Know, right? Oh yeah, a true good points like.
Speaker 5: What do you think you like it? Or do you
hate it?
Speaker 10: Well, I'll tell you I I I like what you
said about how you know, AI is already in some degrees,
it's already been there, especially with you know, you have
bands who use backing tracks and plugins and all that.
So it's not as though it's not as though technology
has not been helping artists to kind of I don't
want to say cheat because I don't make any value
judgment about it.
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, but but.
Speaker 10: But but to kind of enhance the live experience, shall
we say? But that's but but of course a lot
of that's been forever, like you know, bands using backing
tracks for backing vocals, for example, during live shows. I mean,
that's that's been happening for decades, so so there's nothing
new to a lot of it. But it is staggering
to me. Something that I find kind of fun, even
though I feel a little bit guilty about it, is
like going on YouTube and finding these AI generated versions
of songs, you know, new versions like uh, you know,
like like there's this one uh channel on YouTube where
they make AI generated versions of of hard rock and
metal versions of songs from like the Backstreet Boys, the
New Kids on the Block, and and the thing is,
I listen to these and they're really good, Like they're
actually really well done and fun to listen to. And
it's like, you know, but knowing that somebody made that. Now,
granted some of these probably they're made with prompts, but
then they're they're tweaked in certain ways. I don't think
they're I don't think it's they're that simple, but but
it is, you know, it is, Uh, it's scary because
because then it gets you to the question, if you
if you think about it this far, is there a
use for for actual musicians at a certain point if
you can just if you just make AI create whatever
you want whatever it is that you, as an individual
listener want to hear. If that's within reach, why do
you even need other people to make music for you
to listen to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's definitely you know, that's where there's
some of these I think they're the points of real
tension that we should we can talk about, you know.
But also that in itself is nothing new, you know,
Like there was tons of industries that would dramatically change
by technological progress, you know, and often no one really cared.
How often people really valued the convenience over anything else,
you know, Like my granddad worked on Liverpool Docks, and
prior to Liverpool's decline in like the seventies eighties, the
Liverpool Docks employed thousands upon thousands of people. And not
only was there there was political things that happened in
the Thatchy years that really really cementtered the decline, but
besides that, you know, machinery was changed into a way
that a job that maybe needed twenty guys to do
could now be done with one guy with a machine, right,
and there was an inevitability to it, you know, and
even really some of the processes of globalization, you know,
like England has no manufacturing anymore, and that was because
it was cheaper to do it somewhere else, you know,
And I guess that's happened everywhere. And you know that's
also these processes that have happened. Like part of me
kind of sees all of this is like, well, look,
you know, we all went along with all of this,
you know, for generations, we've all gone along with all
of this. This is this is the bed we've made.
We're going to harp and lie in it, you know,
and adapt to it a little bit. Maybe you know,
it's not going away, is the truth. You know, it's
not going away. And they're positives, you know. I've seen recently.
I can't what it was colled, but something popped up
on social media and this guy had Tuesday Eyes to
make a graphic novel. And the guy's ideas were great,
and I was thinking, you know, like this is my thing.
You know, Like the music industry is also like very
nepotistic these days, you know, it's very Sometimes it seems
hemetically sealed, you know, it seems like it's an insiders club,
you know, And and the art can be like that
in lots of ways, and also social class becomes a
big barrier. You know, all the all the successful musicians,
I know, almost always they come from a wealthy background,
you know. And so there's a thing like that which
is like, you know, this guy making his graphic novel,
he would not have had the money or the backing
to ever make this thing, but in terms of the
ideas and the scenes and stuff he's playing with, it's
very interesting, you know to me, And I thought, well,
you know what this tool has enabled this person who
has something exceptional in the idea, and this thing would
never have been made. And you know, like so often
you see what the industry, whether it's Hollywood or anything else,
is chaining out. You know, there's for me, there's a
there's been a bit of a decline in quality in
the mainstream, you know, and partly I think that's because
of this these these problems. You know. It's like, you know,
in England, we used to produce great bands from working
class communities, like Oasis. You know, I might have been
fan of Oasis, but I like it, you know, and
I like what they've done. But you know, I don't
know if a band like Oasis could could exist in
this climates anymore.
Speaker 10: You know, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying AI the answer to that, but I'm
just saying, look, there's a lot of problems that we're
not solving here, and actually there's some benefits to AI.
There's an element of it which is very democratizing. You know,
used to learn about that, you know, the idea that
like home studios. Making home studios made music a lot
more accessible to lots and lots of people, which everyone
champion does a great thing. It was very bad for
professional according studios, you know, like, what do we want
to do here? You know, it's the same for musicians
and in a lot of ways from the artist's point
of view. You know, so often if an artist wants
his vision requires a violin, he has to pay a violin.
It's not and yeah, that's great for this sort of
ecosystem with musicians and stuff. But if he's not able
to do that, he can't make the art. And maybe
the art important, you know, maybe the art is more
important than someone getting paid. You know, I don't know,
I don't know. I'm not saying it is. I'm making that,
you know, not going to be weathered to that idea yet,
I'm just saying I feel like there's a bigger conversation
here than than what you often seeing from from local musicians.
Speaker 10: Yeah, because ultimately, you know, one thing that you can't
do is you can't hold back technology.
Speaker 5: So it's a lose. It's a losing. It's like the
old Western. I always think it's like the old Western films,
you know, and you get this old cowboy and it's
super romantic and the railroads coming through the town, you know,
and he's like holding onto the old ways, and we
love it. It's romantic. It's like we want him to
you know. Ultimately it's the cowboys are over, you know,
right right, or like you know, like medieval nights. I
used to think that was the most romantic thing in
the world. Was like a guy having a sord fight,
you know, and then someone invites invents a gun and
it's like, well, you know, a different game now.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but yeah you can't. Yeah, you can't hold it back,
and it's uh so all you can do. And you know,
the music industry I think already learned this lesson once.
Maybe not well enough, you know, because I remember when
you know, I'm old enough to remember when when Napster
for a stap and and you know, and everybody in
the music industry was freaking out, Oh you can just fileshare,
you can all this music is free now, you know what,
what what are we going to do? You know, because
at the time I was working for I was a
manager for a retail chain here and here in the
States called Strawberries, which later became absorbed into another larger
music retail chain. But that was but that there was panic.
I mean, there was absolute panic in the industry and
the company that I worked for, it was like, well,
why are people going to come in and buy CDs now?
You know?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 10: You know. So, but but you can't you can't stop it.
You can't hold it back. All you can do is
adapt and try to figure it out. And I think,
I think, but I think we're at another inflection point
with that. You know, we can't hold it back, so
we got to just figure it out, you know.
Speaker 5: And yeah, you gotta decide what it means, you know. Yeah,
I guess, like, you know, I kind of I respect
I'm not going to take pass and I see a
lot of people who are sort of trying to draw
a line in the sun and say, i'm're gonna we're
going to keep this. You know, we're gonna, you know,
people who mess around with AI, We're gonna kind of
gate keeping them. We're going to say, you know, no,
that's not cool. You know, we're gonna we're gonna ostracize
it in some way or you know, close ranks and
I'm like, yeah, cool, you know, like make you stand.
But you might just be that old cowboy you know, right,
you're gonna get railroaded, you know. And really, like, like
I said, I really think, like I really think if
you if you can try and get back to the
art form more because you know, so much music now
is just commodity. You know, so much pop music, you know,
the Sabrina Carpenter stuff is just commodity. Like there's not
I mean, it's interesting in a way. Popular culture is
always interested in as a way of understanding society, you know,
and where it's at. But as far as I can
see it where it's at, it's not a great place already.
And a lot of the art is just commodity. And
it's really difficult because you know, at least in like
the sixties and stuff, you know, some of the popular
stuff that was breaking through was was really artistically viable,
you know, like Dylan, Bob Dylan. I mean he's writing
lyrics in those early years that are up there with
like T. S Elliott and all these poets. You know.
It's like, yeah, you know, and that's what I think
is like a I will be able to replace Sabrina Carpenter,
but I'm not sure it could replace Bob Dunnan.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's a good point for.
Speaker 5: The next Bob doing, the next Bob done. You know,
whatever the future version of of a great artist is.
I'm not sure it'll be able to do that. I
think it'll always be playing catch up too, you know,
those sorts of humans, you know.
Speaker 10: Yeah, because without everything that came before it, it has
nothing to draw from, so it needs exactly Yeah.
Speaker 5: So maybe it'll drive innovation and it'll yeah. And also
you know, I find it, you know, even locally, Like
you know, I'm not trying to to break into some
pop thing or to be a mainstream thing at all.
You know, I don't really think it's viable for me,
but I certainly have found there's still a lot of
people who are who are looking for something, you know,
the that maybe is trying to be a bit more
artsy or something, you know, and there's still a place
for it, you know, Yeah, And you know it's maybe
it'll carry on like that. You know, maybe it'll be
something that forced people to really think about what does
matter in a work of art. And if you really
don't like the idea that a computer is making it, well,
what do you like about the fact that it's a
human making it? And you know, maybe we have to
start actually making some distinctions. You know, I think that's
gonna happen. But you know, it's an interesting thing to
think about.
Speaker 10: It is it is, It's it's a very interesting time
to be alive. That's that's for sure. Well, Paul, this
has been wonderful. I love the album. I do want
so I'm gonna can absolutely so I'm going to kind
of put you on the spot here because in a
moment after we let you go, I'm going to play
another track from the album to close out the segment.
But obviously we did play the single Nebu Goodnezzar to open,
But what song would you like us to play at
the end of our conversation?
Speaker 5: And this there's two you know, I have some conflicted
feelings on the album. There's a lot of things that
didn't quite It's a difficult time, you like, to be
totally honest with you, a lot of health problems while
I was trying to make it and stuff. Yeah, and
just a lot of complex things, you know. But but
you know, there's a few bits that came out. I
think there's one song called why Go Home, and there's
this song there called linger On, And I think those
ones are interesting to me. Maybe not the the catches
or anything, but I think they they're the ones that
came out that I really like, you.
Speaker 10: Know, you know what.
Speaker 5: The album just has too many styles on it, you know.
I to be honest, Yeah, my health was getting so
bad I started this is so dramatically, so typical of
an artist. I'm a lot better know, but at the
time I thought that, you know, I might make this
album and just die, you know. Yeah, well no, because
I'm still alive, you know, but yeah, being a dramatic artist,
you know. But yeah, you know, like I was, I
was just kind of like, well, you know what, I'm
just going to record all my favorite songs that I
never recorded over the last ten years, and I'm just
going to put them all on there, and maybe that
should have been three EP's or something. Stylistically it's to
be all over the place. But yeah, I Go Homes
a nice country track, and linger On is kind of
like a weird little pop pop sort of folky thing.
I don't know, I'll have time.
Speaker 10: I'm actually I'll play both of them. I'll play both
of them. At the end.
Speaker 5: I wasn't a going for that. I just couldn't decide.
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, that's that's okay. No, I'll play both of them.
We'll have time. I would love to, awesome, Paul. Where's
the best place for people to go online to keep
up with everything that you are doing.
Speaker 5: So right now? Just YouTube? Man or Spotify? I guess
you know. I have a Facebook. I don't really engagements
with social media right now. I'm kind of like I
had some problems with Instagram and it closed down the accounts,
which was quite oh really a lot of followers on there? Yeah, yeah,
I had a lot of followers on there. But I also,
as you can tell by my thoughts on AI AM
so have been a place where I'm sort of trying
to figure out what it all means man, And yeah,
I'm just trying to figure out what where to go next,
and I think I'd like to maybe start building on YouTube,
you know, especially when I do this new thing. I
was saying, I'm going to go to the Southwest and
do a channel Paul McCartney's RAMI hangout on a farm
and community on YouTube. Yeah, I think on YouTube and
film a lot of stuff. So you could subscribe on
YouTube or that'd probably be the one for now, and
then at some point they'll be there'll be more socials
when I'm here with the next project.
Speaker 10: Yeah, out outstanding, outstanding, all right, Well, Paul Nasoli, No,
that's not right, is it? How do I say it?
Nas nas nas Okay, thank you, and I'm sorry for
butchering your name. I'm in America.
Speaker 5: I don't worry. We don't mostly in Liverpool. I understand
it used to be.
Speaker 10: Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us. This
has been wonderful. We will definitely have to do this. Absolutely,
we'll have to do this again in the future.
Speaker 5: And yeah, we're gonna we're.
Speaker 10: Gonna play both of those tracks from the self titled album,
very very very cool. I listened to the whole thing
and I love it so great.
Speaker 5: Great, absolutely, so we'll hit those tracks.
Speaker 10: We'll let you go for now, Paul, thank you so much,
and we'll talk again soon. I'm sure.
Speaker 5: All right, thanks a lot.
Speaker 10: You got it YouTube, bye bye, all right, wonderful. So
we're gonna play. We're gonna go ahead and play both
of these. By the way, if you are listening live,
stick around if you are listening on Saturday, because in
the third hour gen X is gonna be joining us
from the band Generations and really looking forward to talking
with her. But yeah, we'll play. Uh, we'll play both
of these. Let's do this one first. This is called
why go Home?
Speaker 6: Why go Home? With Mama's sleeve? And no wonder stop
your beating?
Speaker 11: Why go home?
Speaker 10: Twenty could Steve.
Speaker 9: Summer's gone, And I'm to reading along to face.
Speaker 10: These feeling, I.
Speaker 6: PhD just to send against him. Some crickets stops hid bother.
The day that you were born flies we to.
Speaker 9: Wa went the afew only thought sorrow shut on and
restip you try to take your finger to all and.
Speaker 6: Far back down again. Fine your hard misplease.
Speaker 11: So I'm bound with the season looking around for faith.
Speaker 6: Then reason none I found on the.
Speaker 10: Old bones, said be.
Speaker 6: Any food? On inside around here and see it for yourself.
The room be missing from your crying.
Speaker 9: The twindling I you him, and all your pearls of
wisdom have been passed among the swine.
Speaker 6: The cracks beneath the mounds move better next time. Why
go home when mam must leave and no one there?
Who stop? You'll bleed? Why go home when you could stay,
oh man.
Speaker 11: To Why go home when you.
Speaker 10: Could stay, oh night?
Speaker 5: Why go home where?
Speaker 6: Never really had the words to say, never knew what
game to play? Baby with you? Ever since you went away,
only feel like it was yesterday. Yes, God deeds gone.
I linger.
Speaker 5: For you.
Speaker 6: Never really mattered anyway. I can take it, baby, came
I have for men. You'll know it's true.
Speaker 11: Take your seventh on a Saturday, Well it might have
been on one on Liday in the sunder Ilger.
Speaker 6: For you, Alida, just sorry.
Speaker 11: Remember when we never had a kid, so'd you belabe
that I'll take you anywhere that you want to go.
Speaker 6: Eu and me we never had a prince.
Speaker 7: Talk two weeks, you know, we never had a pair
to reach to the sun.
Speaker 6: Alinga on.
Speaker 5: For you.
Speaker 6: I'm standing in the air shuller, I'm listening to the word.
I wonder as girl, A wonder, white spell, a may
of a mind.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm standing in the shastening to Ben.
Speaker 4: I'll get at the back, staying in the s.
Speaker 6: S to see me.
Speaker 5: Ad got miss.
Speaker 6: What's bad? That's all he got?
Speaker 8: He got ma.
Speaker 6: Kill?
Speaker 10: I love it. That is the Ocean by the band
replaced by robots. Hey, welcome, he everybody. This is Matt
Connorton Unleashed. We are live from the studios of wm
n H ninety five point three FM and Glorious Manchester,
New Hampshire. If you aren't listening live on Saturday. Coming
up in the third hour, gen X from the band
Generations is going to be joining us from Missouri via
Microsoft Teams. Really looking forward to talking with her. I
love the project. Jenny is here, of course at the
news table account for and just saw this some music news. Uh.
Ticketmaster faces lawsuit over alleged website tracking and surveillance tools.
This is from Music Businessworldwide dot com. I feel like
whenever we talk about lawsuits in the music industry, Ticketmaster's
name comes up a lot, a lot, a lot. They're
constantly getting yes, yes, here's here's the well, here's the
newest thing. A new class action lawsuit has been filed
against Ticketmaster, a leegendis website deploys unauthorized surveillance tools that
violate California privacy laws. The latest complaint, filed in the
US District Court for the Central District of California on Monday,
January five, only listed Ticketmaster as the defendant. The class
action was led by Solano County, California resident named Jeffrey Scruggs.
The complaint claims that Ticketmaster employs advertising and analytics trackers
from Google, Facebook, TikTok, and Microsoft bing Oh Bing, I
remember bing I know, I do too. I didn't even
know it still existed, as well as those operated by Pinterest,
Snap and Commscore to illegally quote collect, receive and process
unquote information. Excuse me how to cough information from users
such as IP addresses, paid RL's timestamps, and device on
or browser characteristics, among others. By the way, before we
go any further with this, I would just say, yeah,
I just kind of would have assumed that, like as
any of this house shocking to you, No.
Speaker 4: Shocking el heck no no.
Speaker 12: But it raises an important issue about privacy. So do you,
on the one hand, do you want ads that are
targeted to what you like? Maybe you would like that
instead of ads that are selling trying to sell your products,
you would have nothing to do with, right, Like, but.
Speaker 5: What to what?
Speaker 4: To what expense?
Speaker 12: Do you want it to know when you turn your
browser on and off? Do you want it to tell
what your favorite color is? Do you want it to
tell what musicians you're looking up or whether you looked
up something for athletes?
Speaker 10: Foot?
Speaker 12: You know how it can get? How much information is
okay with you? Because once it's out, it's out right.
Once something gets the net, it's on the net. There's
no deletion, it's there. Yeah, you know, I remember years ago,
years and years and years ago when the super markets
came out with this device that you could go around
to shop with and it would get to know you
and it would tell you if you were in a
particular aisle, do you want to get X again?
Speaker 4: Or why again?
Speaker 12: And how privacy wonks got really upset about it. They're like, oh, well,
they're gonna know what you're eating, they're gonna know what
you're tagging him, you know, And then it was like,
oh I went shopping and then I got like five
cheese coupons in the mail because I bought a lot
of cheese. So where did that seveiled information come from?
So to them doing this as they're trying to show
you the ads like they want to show you the
Doobie Brothers or they want to show you, I don't know,
kid rock, whoever.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 10: To me is so different than you know, when you
go on a shopping site like Amazon and you see
products selected for you, suggested for you, I should say
that by your history that you might like, yes, things
that you're actually interested in. That's how all of it works.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well why does it always try and show me
something I've already bought?
Speaker 10: I don't know, Maybe you want to buy it again? No,
maybe you need another one. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I never understand that one. Why are you showing me
something I already bought?
Speaker 10: Well?
Speaker 4: Crazy? But yo, So it comes down to privacy, right.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but the so I have an unpopular opinion about that,
and that is this. I'm just speaking for me personally.
I couldn't care less, couldn't care less about any of it.
I have no privacy to protect because guess what none
of us do anymore. I mean, come on, because this
toothpaste is so far out of the tube. Who cares?
Some people I know don't want what I just said
is an unpopular opinion. Well, I think probably most people.
Speaker 12: Don't put the browsers in the setting that allows them
to browse and do things without being cast.
Speaker 10: I'm glad you said that, because that's an easy solution. Yeah,
just put it in an incogni neo mode and go crazy.
Speaker 4: That's all that. Well, now it's easy for you to
say that, but you got to look.
Speaker 10: That it's easy to do it.
Speaker 12: You've got to look at it in the legal sense
of the word of how much is that not? How
much is what is crossing the line? Is there a
line on your privacy that you don't want cross that
you do want the laws to protect because you don't
want companies, you know, gathering that.
Speaker 4: Do you want the local hospital to.
Speaker 12: Start sending you bereavement things because it got connected that
you had somebody that passed.
Speaker 10: But it wouldn't offend me. I wouldn't be like, oh,
this is insensitive. I can't believe I'm getting this.
Speaker 4: I be, But somebody else might be like, why does
anybody know this?
Speaker 10: Why not? Like I said, it's my my my way
of looking at is it's an unpopular opinion. I just
don't care. I've never cared. I don't care.
Speaker 12: You're an oddity because you're one of those people that
is I am who I am as I am you.
You don't have to remember his story because it's always truth, right,
you know, so and and that. Unfortunately these days kah
could be kind of rare. So if you're somebody that's
trying to hide behind a cloud, you don't want the surveiled, yeah,
or if you I mean, there is a certain perspective
to respect that people do have a right to privacy.
Speaker 4: People do have a right to be safe within their
own environment. They have that right. So how far is
it okay to let a company go?
Speaker 10: Do you have a line? So I would argue again,
and this will be an unpopular opinion. People will disagree
with me. But if you have, if you want to
have that expectation of privacy, you have to take some
simple steps to do that, like putting your browser incognito
mode for example, or using a VPN. But if you like,
this is the part that will be unpopular with people.
I think at this point in twenty twenty six, you
have no more just using your browser as is and
and just looking at whatever you're looking at, you have
no you should have no more greater expectation of more
greater you should have no greater expectation of privacy doing that,
then you should in a public place having a conversation.
Speaker 4: With disagree right to be.
Speaker 12: If you're in your home doing whatever it is you're
doing as long so long as it's not an illegal
horrible thing, you have right to And the VPN isn't
going to solve this problem because remember in the article
they talked about it's collecting the IP address paige Ur.
Else having a VPN doesn't matter. That VPN only hides.
Speaker 4: Where you are.
Speaker 10: If you put it in an incognito could go.
Speaker 12: For incognito, but do you know whether or not this
technology to get around that? Can they still look at it?
And if there's no law prohibiting it, then it is
legal State of New Hampshire. If it is not a
law specifically saying it's illegal, then it is legal in
the State of New Hampshire.
Speaker 4: That's how our laws are.
Speaker 12: So if there's no law that says I don't have
the right to invade your privacy And look at what
did you buy off a ticket Master? When did you
buy it? What venues are you going to? And can
that information then be gotten out there? Can that information
then be sold? Can somebody use it to surveil the.
Speaker 10: Other thing too? People always complained, abu oh, I don't
want my information being sold. What that that's been going?
That was going on pre internet, like like if you've
ever gotten a piece of junk mail that.
Speaker 12: People fried, but that doesn't make it right, That doesn't
make it right. Well, no, that's not how it now.
Listen to you, it doesn't have to be that's how
it works. If that's how it works, and Ticketmaster can
say that's how.
Speaker 4: It works, we've got the monopoly.
Speaker 10: That's why you guys should.
Speaker 12: Just you know, sell your tickets through us and suck
it up that you're getting, you know, two cents on
the penny or whatever it is.
Speaker 4: You know, there's I don't I don't like that.
Speaker 10: That's just like it is like even pre internet, Like
you subscribe to a magazine and you start getting offers
in your mailbox for other magazines that might be interesting you.
Why does that happen because the company that you bought
that magazine subscription from took your information and sold it
to somebody.
Speaker 12: Ever, ninety percent of companies out there have the ability
that you can say no, do not share. You have
the ability to say no, do not share on a
lot of these websites, a lot of these companies.
Speaker 4: You have that right to say no.
Speaker 12: So they can sell everybody else, but you sure if
they do sell you, then they're violations. They're violating your
privacy and they're not respecting the choice you made to
say no, I don't want you to share my hell
if you I don't want you to know that I'm
buying hemorrhoid cream or I'm buying athletes foot stuff like
maybe people don't so what the other side of that coin,
The unintended consequence can be as bad as somebody doesn't
go get treatment for something because they're too afraid of
the surveillance of somebody finding out that what that is
that they have a treatment for. You gotta think worse case,
best case, chio sure, and if the unintended consequences can
be harmful and hurt somebody, then there is a call
to say we have a right to privacy. Yeah, I
don't think that just because the Internet was created that
means that you lose your right to privacy.
Speaker 10: No, I just think it's no. I agree with that.
Uh in principle. I just think it's uh. I think
the expectator people need to adjust their expectations.
Speaker 4: But I want to know what your line is.
Speaker 12: If they're saying they're they're collecting what was that word
they use, Oh, browser characteristics?
Speaker 4: What in the heck does that actually mean?
Speaker 10: I don't even know.
Speaker 4: I just I just know I personally mean accessing the camera.
Speaker 10: Oh, that would be bad. Yeah. I don't want that happening.
I want prohibiting it. And no, there is Oh, that's
definitely against.
Speaker 5: A lot.
Speaker 4: A privacy.
Speaker 12: If what if you're using a website that utilizes your camera,
If there isn't a lot of it says that website
can't and take whatever you utilize that camera with and
sell it to somebody, Then they get to sell it
to somebody.
Speaker 4: What if I'm using an online thing to size out.
Speaker 12: My eyeglasses, to buy my eyeglasses, to put in my prescription,
that's my private information. Whether you think it's important or
not important information, that's my private that.
Speaker 10: Would be protected by hippo, wouldn't it anywhere?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: Not? Maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 10: I don't know, I would think it. I don't know
because because the ceiling with an eyeglass prescription can maybe
the aspect of it, That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4: Can they get away with sharing any of the other stuff?
I don't know.
Speaker 10: Probably. I don't like who you bought the glasses from?
And yeah probably yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, so if ticket masters some kind of what
are they doing on the back end?
Speaker 10: Is my thing?
Speaker 12: Like okay, time stamps. They know when you're up, they
know when you're buying your tickets. Yeah, they know what
to send out, you know what I mean? They know
it target cool?
Speaker 10: Cool, Really, show me, show me what you want to
sell me.
Speaker 4: You want to maybe we're getting closer and closer to
big Brother, then well we're already there.
Speaker 10: We've been there for a long time.
Speaker 12: But in the aspect of a private business, do they
have the right to investigate you, to surveil you in
such a way.
Speaker 10: You think I'm interesting enough, you want to investigate and
surveil me, go ahead, Well.
Speaker 12: That's my that's my ass that's my personal opinion as well.
But that can be my personal opinion. That doesn't mean
it has to be forced to be everybody. No, I
know I have the air on the side of safety first.
So the right to privacy should supersede the right for
the company to be able to sell the information or
to collect this data.
Speaker 4: How far deep browser characteristics means? I don't know.
Speaker 12: And could they Well here, let me throw this at you.
Could they utilize any of this information against the artists?
Could they collect data using these surveiled technologies that helps
them buy new ways to nicol and I'm the artist,
so they get even less? We have how many times
we talked about how many how much money the artists
don't get?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, could that be utilized to do it even further?
Speaker 10: Well, if you want to look at it. So the
article is up at Music Business Worldwide dot com. There's
a there's a bit more to it. But but like
I said, Ticketmaster, they're always in trouble for something.
Speaker 12: And they're always trying to get more for less. That's right,
So protect the artists, watch out for each other.
Speaker 10: All right, If you are listening live on Saturday, we're
gonna take a break. We're going to show some love
to our amazing sponsors, and then coming out of the break,
we're gonna play the Uh, one of the new singles
from the band Generation's Seance, and we have another track
too that just came out that we'll play at the
end of our conversation with gen X. She's gonna be
joining us via Microsoft Teams in just a few minutes.
Really looking forward to talking with her, so stick around.
There is plenty more to come.