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<v Speaker 1>Your morning news, on the way to work and all day.

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<v Speaker 2>In fault check in throughout the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five krc D Talk Station eight oh five.

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<v Speaker 3>Here at fifty five krc DE Talk Station, Brian Thomas. Welcoming,

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<v Speaker 3>and I've been looking forward to this discussion all morning.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a pleasure to have on.

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<v Speaker 3>William Elliott hazel Grove, the national best selling author of

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<v Speaker 3>ten novels fourteen narrative nonfiction titles. He was the Ernest

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<v Speaker 3>Hemingway Writer in residence. This is a cool thing. He

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<v Speaker 3>got to actually write in the attic of Ernest Hemingway's birthplace.

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<v Speaker 3>He's written articles for like every major news outlet, USA Today,

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<v Speaker 3>Smithsonian Magazine, and a whole bunch of other publications. He's

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<v Speaker 3>been featured on NPR, New York Times, Los Angeles Times,

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<v Speaker 3>Chicago Tribune. I could go on, but I want to

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<v Speaker 3>talk about his new book Dead Air the Night orson

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<v Speaker 3>Wells Terrified America. William hazel Grove, it is a pleasure

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<v Speaker 3>heavy on the fifty five KRS morning show.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm familiar with this story. I've seen the movie. I've

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<v Speaker 3>seen the original movie, I saw the remake of it.

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<v Speaker 3>I've also seen the sort of documentary movie about the

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<v Speaker 3>chaos that ensued as a consequence of hgu Well's airing

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<v Speaker 3>this on air radio play War of the Worlds with

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen thirty eight. I guess, as you point out October thirtieth,

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<v Speaker 3>Halloween Eve, But I want you to set the stage

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<v Speaker 3>for my listeners for an understanding of how this was

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<v Speaker 3>such a widespread radio show. It was a play on

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<v Speaker 3>the air. They had actors doing different parts, sound effects,

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<v Speaker 3>all that live in studio at CBS Studio in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>What was the nature of radio back then?

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<v Speaker 3>Because right now, of course, anybody can get any program

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<v Speaker 3>anywhere in the world with the Internet. But I was

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<v Speaker 3>wondering was this a syndicated thing that it went across

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<v Speaker 3>to America? I mean, was the power feed from CBS

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<v Speaker 3>New York City's radio studio so big like our local

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<v Speaker 3>station LW that it went on over multiple states? How

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<v Speaker 3>did this program get out?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Well, yeah, great question. Actually they had one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty six affiliates at the time, went across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, that's the first misnomer about this War

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<v Speaker 2>of the Worlds that people like, Oh, it's just restricted

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<v Speaker 2>to the East, because that's is not true. It went

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<v Speaker 2>right across the country and was picked up by all

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<v Speaker 2>these stations. And you know again I when I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>this book, I did it by newspapers. I used the

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<v Speaker 2>research of all these new jobs, all these small towns.

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<v Speaker 2>The panic just emanated out and so they were literally

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<v Speaker 2>running for the hills in California, Missouri, you know, all

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<v Speaker 2>the way down to the south, down in Mississippi. It

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<v Speaker 2>was just you know, it traveled across the country. As

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<v Speaker 2>you said, Radium was a new medium at this time

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, everybody had a station because what happened

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<v Speaker 2>was it's a dayton Land crisis with Hitler wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>invade Czechoslovakia. It just occurred two weeks before. So there

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<v Speaker 2>was these breaking news bulletins going off all the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and and Wells used that in his show. He used

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<v Speaker 2>breaking news bulletins. He made it as realistic as possible,

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<v Speaker 2>and he listened to it today even today. But so

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<v Speaker 2>I had someone son and listened to it. You think

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<v Speaker 2>it's actual news. Yeah, you know, you know Martians Linkedy.

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<v Speaker 3>Now in terms of H. Jewells at the time, I

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<v Speaker 3>guess he was an unknown entity, imnorities what H Dwells

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<v Speaker 3>and up accomplishment, but accomplishing. But at this time was

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<v Speaker 3>was he a newbie kind of guy that nobody never

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<v Speaker 3>heard of?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh you mean Orton? Yeah, Uh, he had some fame,

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<v Speaker 2>he had been he had produced these two plays. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>he only had about a million listeners. But on this night,

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<v Speaker 2>because his show was a sustaining program, he didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>a sponsor, all right, sort of for it was for

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<v Speaker 2>the good of the country, right. They had this thing then,

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<v Speaker 2>and so the the you know, playing at the same

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<v Speaker 2>time Waster Charlie McCarthy Hour, Edgar Berg and Charlie McCarthy,

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<v Speaker 2>which had twelve million listeners. Okay, so what happens during

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<v Speaker 2>during the Charlie McCarthy hour They go to Nelson Edia

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<v Speaker 2>singer and guess what happens with What happens now everybody

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<v Speaker 2>starts surfing the dial and they end up on War

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<v Speaker 2>of the World in progress after the station you know, identification,

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<v Speaker 2>and everybody's like, oh my god, you know, and growers

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<v Speaker 2>and in New Jersey, our Martians have landed and you

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<v Speaker 2>know they're using poison gas and heat raising killing everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, so Well's got supercharged that night. Also

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<v Speaker 2>radios in cars had just become a thing. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>all these cars now had radios, and this was a

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<v Speaker 2>very new phenomenon, you know, driving around with a car radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So people in the cars for the first time, we're

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<v Speaker 2>hearing this, and they started just driving like maniacs. The

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<v Speaker 2>police didn't know what was going on. Everybody started beating,

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<v Speaker 2>getting accidents and going through red lights and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not stopping for any So it was a kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a perfect storm, you know, on this this October thirtieth,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty eighth that this you know, broadcast took hold

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<v Speaker 2>and was like a tsunonymi of terror across the country.

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<v Speaker 3>Now before the terror started breaking out in the panic

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<v Speaker 3>in the streets and blah blah blah, it's my understanding.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct me if I'm wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>Though, at some point Orson Wells was told that, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>you've got to let the world know that this isn't

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<v Speaker 3>real and that you are broadcasting a play. So he

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<v Speaker 3>interrupted the show to and make that announcement. Is that

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<v Speaker 3>part of my recollection?

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<v Speaker 1>Correct?

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<v Speaker 2>Actually what happened is Wells is doing the show. A

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<v Speaker 2>guy named Davison Taylor, a CBS executive, starts getting all

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<v Speaker 2>these calls saying where do we go? The Martians are abating,

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<v Speaker 2>where can we do? And they realized, well, this is

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<v Speaker 2>out of control. He then leaves the control room and

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<v Speaker 2>tries to get in the studio. John Houseman, orson Wall's partner,

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<v Speaker 2>holds the door shut. I won't let him in because

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<v Speaker 2>they know what they're doing. Right. Then the police arrived

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<v Speaker 2>and they come into the control room. Well sees them

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<v Speaker 2>and they try to get in the studio and John

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<v Speaker 2>Houston doesn't let them. Why because Wells wants to get

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<v Speaker 2>to the eight thirty eight minute mark where who has

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<v Speaker 2>to take a station break? So for thirty eight minutes

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<v Speaker 2>after the initial intro, okay, there's no break. And by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, War of the Worlds, the first half is

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<v Speaker 2>where everything happens. The second half is a snooze, just

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<v Speaker 2>Wells walking around saying is this terrible to the earthless concenriat?

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<v Speaker 2>But the first half is all the fireworks. Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Well Orson knew exactly what he was doing. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he was he asked he you know, he's that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of guy who would ask you to look through his

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<v Speaker 2>telescope and say do you see these stars and then

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<v Speaker 2>thump you on the head and safety as see him now,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's that kind of you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, did he okay?

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's kind of the predicate. So he obviously

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<v Speaker 3>was obstruction, and obstruction is in stopping it while it

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<v Speaker 3>was going on real time.

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<v Speaker 1>I get that part. But did he know? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think he knows?

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<v Speaker 3>Or is there any reports that he knew in advance

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<v Speaker 3>that it was going to cause this type of reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think he thought the explosion would be as

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<v Speaker 2>big as it did. But Wells was determined. He had

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<v Speaker 2>studied the Hindenburg recording of when Hennemburg crash. W L

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<v Speaker 2>Chicago had on the spot reporter who freaked out, and

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<v Speaker 2>so well studied that, and so in his the guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Carl Reddick is on the spot reporter with the Martians.

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<v Speaker 2>The Martians come out of their cylinder and they zap

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<v Speaker 2>him and kill him on the air. And my book's

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<v Speaker 2>called dead Air. And the reason for all that is

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<v Speaker 2>because then Wells in the studio holds up his arms

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<v Speaker 2>for everybody, everybody, musicians, the actors, everybody to not say

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<v Speaker 2>a word. And as you know, dead air on the

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<v Speaker 2>radio is just taboo. Well, for six seconds he holds

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<v Speaker 2>that silence. After this reporter dies on the air, people

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<v Speaker 2>freaked out. They thought, oh my god, we just heard

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<v Speaker 2>this guy get exact.

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<v Speaker 3>And he died, oh right, it'd be like right in

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<v Speaker 3>the middle, like you mentioned the Heinburg all the humanity,

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<v Speaker 3>the humanity, and then gone exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>He made he made radio part of the play. He

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<v Speaker 2>took he wrote the third wall. We're used to that now,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. You see passa cards all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 2>out in space, so turn and talk to the camera.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I was did with this. Suddenly radio was

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<v Speaker 2>part of the drama.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, in terms of the reaction, okay, we know this

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<v Speaker 3>set up. Now, we know he knew at some point

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<v Speaker 3>that people were going crazy thinking this was true. I

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<v Speaker 3>note that the military actually also got involved. We had

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<v Speaker 3>actual our armed forces reacted on some level to this,

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<v Speaker 3>believing it to be true as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. What happened was they had to put out a

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<v Speaker 2>release telling the armed forces, this isn't this isn't real,

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<v Speaker 2>this doesn't happen. And because people kept saying I heard

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<v Speaker 2>the president says, well, Orson had this actor imitate the

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<v Speaker 2>Interior secretary, the Interior and he said, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what to do this guy did a dead

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<v Speaker 2>on an Fdr. Franken Dollan and Roosevelt with all the

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<v Speaker 2>speech tags and you listen to this now and you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that's Roosevelt. So people are like, I've heard the President

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<v Speaker 2>say this. The Martians have incinerated our army since you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it was time compression suddenly where you know, eight thousand

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<v Speaker 2>men got killed. And then we're with a bomber pilot

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<v Speaker 2>who's died by me in on the Martians. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>it's almost a minute. So when people panic, they lost

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<v Speaker 2>their sense of time because later people said, well, how

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<v Speaker 2>can abody believe that all that could happen? But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people weren't thinking, and Welles was brilliant because here's the

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<v Speaker 2>thing you want to know. This is a broadcast, and

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<v Speaker 2>a broadcast it starts with dinner music at a hotel

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<v Speaker 2>in New York. Then they cut from that to we've

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<v Speaker 2>got breaking news, something's crashed at Grovers on New Jersey,

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<v Speaker 2>and then back to the dinner music, then back to

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<v Speaker 2>the you know, New Jersey, We've got breaking news. The

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<v Speaker 2>Martians are out in the shooting people or the heat rate.

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<v Speaker 2>So people once you bought into the music, you thought, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>this is real, and then okay, this is real. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you were in the tunnel and then it

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<v Speaker 2>was off to the races.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my word, and it's and you know, my my brain,

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<v Speaker 3>I logical, reasonable brain. Then again, I'm surrounded by like

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<v Speaker 3>nine thousand different news resources. I never believe anything when

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<v Speaker 3>I first read it. I want to go out in

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<v Speaker 3>the world and look around to see if there's any

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<v Speaker 3>credibility associated with whatever random person says something. But you

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned the it's just the infancy of radio. Even car

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<v Speaker 3>radios are new. What about the idea of just changing

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<v Speaker 3>the station to see if anybody else is reporting about

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<v Speaker 3>the world coming to an end and if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>hear it elsewhere, doesn't that sort of reduce the credibility

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<v Speaker 3>of what's going on in CBS at that moment?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know this happens. People started serving back. But

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<v Speaker 2>if you've ever been in a truly panic situation, you

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<v Speaker 2>start doing strange things. Little things become very hard to do,

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<v Speaker 2>like put in the key in your car and start

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<v Speaker 2>in your car. Well, people didn't. They started to surf

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<v Speaker 2>the down. Radio reception was iffy, especially in cars. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So there's a general with his wife in the Redwood

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<v Speaker 2>Forest in California. They hear the broadcasts, They try and

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<v Speaker 2>get an ounsation, They can't pick anything up. Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>the Martians have knocked everybody out there. They run out

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<v Speaker 2>of gas in the woods. They sit there and wait

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<v Speaker 2>to get incinerated by the Martians. I mean, so this

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<v Speaker 2>happened people, because I just got named Cantrell, who did

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<v Speaker 2>a big report on this too, you know, immediately after

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<v Speaker 2>it happened. He was a Yale professor and he interviewed

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<v Speaker 2>all these people, and that was one of the questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Well then you go on the down and said, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we did, but we you know, we couldn't find anything

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<v Speaker 2>else going on, or you know, some people said they

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<v Speaker 2>did find other people reporting on also too. Terror was

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<v Speaker 2>spread by the phone. People got on the phone said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Aunt Martha, you know, the world's ending. The

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<v Speaker 2>Martians have come. And then so they said the what's

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<v Speaker 2>sports in Manhattan, which are half block long, just lit up,

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<v Speaker 2>just totally lit up. So it was being disseminated to

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<v Speaker 2>other people who never heard the broadcast. So it takes

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<v Speaker 2>on that, you know, yeah, yeah, and everybody starts running,

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<v Speaker 2>people running the theater saying, it's the end of the world.

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<v Speaker 2>They're running the churches stands the end of the world.

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<v Speaker 2>People are confessing to affairs to their lives. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I got something to tell you. You know the broadcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, how you laugh about it now? But

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<v Speaker 3>I can only imagine the panic and the terror. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>was there any actual death? It seemed to recall the

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<v Speaker 3>movie about the Panic. There was a scene where there

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<v Speaker 3>was a father who was getting ready to shoot his

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<v Speaker 3>children before the Martians were able to get them, sort

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<v Speaker 3>of like to you know, stop the tragedy with a tragedy.

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<v Speaker 3>Did anybody actually die as a consequence of this broadcast?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? It was a very famous story of a man

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<v Speaker 2>coming him and his wife is sitting at the kitchen

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<v Speaker 2>table with a vial of arsenic. You know, who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to kill herself? And what are you doing? She said,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd rather go this way than by the Martians. But

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I answered that, two years after this,

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<v Speaker 2>Arsenal els is on a barn tour. He goes into

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<v Speaker 2>hotel cancus of another gentleman. A man attacks him a viciously.

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<v Speaker 2>They pulled him off, and the man's screen time said

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<v Speaker 2>I flow. I'd kill you if I ever saw you.

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<v Speaker 2>They do an investigation and find out his wife did

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<v Speaker 2>commit suicide on the night of the broadcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, well, I'll tell you what, William Hazel Grow. It

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<v Speaker 3>has been a real pleasure talking with you about this

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<v Speaker 3>amazing story here on the fifty five CARC Morning Show.

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<v Speaker 3>Your book is linked on my blog page. My listener's

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<v Speaker 3>going to go at fifty five cars dot com to

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<v Speaker 3>get a copy of Dead Air The Night that orson

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<v Speaker 3>Wells Terrified America. William, great job man. I just liked

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<v Speaker 3>the thrilling conversation. And thanks for writing the book. It's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be a real treat to read.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh great, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>My pleasure man, My pleasure eight nineteen fifty five. Caresee

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<v Speaker 3>the talk station power of media? I guess it still

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<v Speaker 3>exists in some degree. Don't go away, coming up by

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<v Speaker 3>heart mediaviation expert Jay rad Life about him in the hour,

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<v Speaker 3>will be right back

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five k r C A U line