Speaker 1: On he didn't say one. Is it an industry thing? Yes? Ah,
Speaker 1: there we.
Speaker 2: Go right, welcome to and listen to this the CEO
Speaker 2: pre show for episode four seventy nine and and the
Speaker 2: awesome bracket game. Holy shit, that didn't sound as awesome
Speaker 2: as I thought I was going to.
Speaker 1: No, but we know how people are going to enter
Speaker 1: to win stuff today, which is finn Yes, yes we do.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's the thing brought to you by the
Speaker 2: wonderful patrons at patreon dot com slash CECO podcast whether
Speaker 2: they like it or not, and they do or they will.
Speaker 2: So here's what we have. You've heard of Commander bracket.
Speaker 1: Everybody has heard of the bracket at this point.
Speaker 2: I believe most like that's what we're talking about this
Speaker 2: week on the pre show today, on the regular show tomorrow.
Speaker 2: We've been asked about our extended thoughts. I've done some
Speaker 2: discussion with the members of the CCO nation and our discord.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've lurked in there.
Speaker 2: We've watched some of our own content or like stuff
Speaker 2: and formulated some opinions.
Speaker 1: I talked to the Dude bros yesterday. Oh yeah, what
Speaker 1: did they say while they're drinking beer. Oh good idea.
Speaker 1: They say most of the same things that I was
Speaker 1: saying or will be saying. Lots of threes, lots of
Speaker 1: threes out there, and I have the numbers to back
Speaker 1: it up written on this piece.
Speaker 2: I have the numbers to back it up as well.
Speaker 2: And you know what I got to say.
Speaker 1: Lots of ones is threes. And you will not be
Speaker 1: able to guess which one is my strongest deck according
Speaker 1: to the bracket. No, you'll never guess.
Speaker 2: Oh man, okay, see it's it's It opens up so
Speaker 2: many different avenues for conversation. You'll never guess, like where
Speaker 2: one or a couple of my decks land based on
Speaker 2: having one card in them or whatever. Right, bellows a
Speaker 2: one bellows a one fellow.
Speaker 1: And it's fucking not one. No.
Speaker 2: So that's why we talk, and that's why we kind
Speaker 2: of make our way through everything and discuss like the
Speaker 2: the intent, right intent?
Speaker 1: Very important?
Speaker 2: Do I follow the law or do I follow.
Speaker 1: The intent of the law? Very important? Oh, Maggie agrees
Speaker 1: with that one for sure, very much. So what a dog?
Speaker 1: What is it? Timmy stuck in the well? She's sad
Speaker 1: because producer Gary not here today, and Maggie is Gary's Girl.
Speaker 2: Yes, producer Dragoon on the ones and twos. Yes, as
Speaker 2: another industry buzzword.
Speaker 1: Yes, Panzer Dragoon. If you've played that game, yes, the
Speaker 1: rail Shooter, it's pretty good. Yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, So speaking of game, here's the thing games. Okay,
Speaker 2: I've got in front of me. I just got to
Speaker 2: got to bring it up because it's not in front
Speaker 2: of me. I have in front of me the list
Speaker 2: of Game Changers. Okay, So we've got forty cards that
Speaker 2: are help you determine what level your games are at. Right,
Speaker 2: We're gonna get into it tomorrow, but you're watching a
Speaker 2: magic podcast on the internet, you probably already know what
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you me each color or each color,
Speaker 2: what card would you take off of the list? And
Speaker 2: what card would you maybe have or put onto the list.
Speaker 2: That one's a little bit harder because it's a little
Speaker 2: bit on the spot. Yeah, okay, So I don't care
Speaker 2: though I'm putting you on the spot.
Speaker 1: Are you prepared with answers as well? Or is this
Speaker 1: just me playing and everybody else? Also, if you put
Speaker 1: your answers in the comments below, you could win yourself
Speaker 1: a Ceco sticker. Pack, a Ceco token back or a
Speaker 1: lame masshold pack of magic the gathering cards. Did you see.
Speaker 2: Somebody I did and call themselves a trollock? You you
Speaker 2: even started and flagged it in the email. You're like,
Speaker 2: well's got this? This is awesome? Yes, yeah, last week's
Speaker 2: booster has gone out. And when I say booster pack, I.
Speaker 1: Mean yeah, they asked for a booster packs. It's so,
Speaker 1: here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I've got the list White Grandith, Magistrate, Enlightened Tutor, Sarah's Sanctum,
Speaker 2: Smothering Titties or trouble in pairs?
Speaker 1: Which card do you take off mothering tithe s mothering ties,
Speaker 1: smothering tithe and.
Speaker 2: Reason sir in I don't know twenty seconds.
Speaker 1: Or twenty seconds or less. I think that it's ubiquitous enough,
Speaker 1: and it's we've all seen smothering Tithe played and how
Speaker 1: many games has it actually absolutely taken over and blown
Speaker 1: out in a way. It's like, man, I wish they
Speaker 1: just banned that card unless somebody else is drawing a
Speaker 1: degenerate number of cards like it's it's fine, it's because
Speaker 1: it's white.
Speaker 2: And you know what the thing about smothering tie, This
Speaker 2: is the kind of card that gets better as your
Speaker 2: opponent's decks get better because the manna that they're using
Speaker 2: is tighter, and probably they're drawing more cards than what
Speaker 2: is normal, Like smothering Tithe versus the one ring better
Speaker 2: than smothering Tithe versus turn six h six drop go yes, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: so smothering Tithe.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.
Speaker 2: I I have trouble with the redundancies within the bracket
Speaker 2: explanations and having tutors in the in the game changers list,
Speaker 2: So I would want to say enlightened tutor, but I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say Sarah's sank.
Speaker 1: Because nobody has that. A.
Speaker 2: Nobody has it. B if you're playing in sanctioned tournaments
Speaker 2: like like it face to face opens where they have
Speaker 2: like the ceed h five k's, yeah, those are sanctioned
Speaker 2: magic events, no proxies. Yeah, everybody's got like four hundred
Speaker 2: and five hundred dollars magic cards kicking around. Also, it's
Speaker 2: only good if you chock your deck full of like
Speaker 2: one and two drop enchantments like Utopia, sprawl and and
Speaker 2: wild growth and stuff, and and that's a very specific
Speaker 2: deck that' probably not gonna run into very often. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: onto blue, Oh, what would you add?
Speaker 1: What would you add in white test protection? Oo. I
Speaker 1: feel like looking at this list and listening to the
Speaker 1: explanation of why things are on this list from a
Speaker 1: couple other people, there's a lot of I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: use the word butt hurt, but I do want to
Speaker 1: say the word but hurt out loud. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of feel bad inclusions on here, and I think that
Speaker 1: Tefts Protection falls under that umbrella where it just takes
Speaker 1: a win and turns it into a probably a loss
Speaker 1: because somebody's like, yeah, I'm gonna win, damn.
Speaker 2: It, I'm gonna win, but except for one guy, and
Speaker 2: then I'm probably gonna lose because all my marbles are
Speaker 2: gonna be in one basket over in Timbuctoo and this
Speaker 2: guy coming straight down Broadway right at my nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, now I'm dead. So yeah, I think in
Speaker 1: the spirit of the list, I feel TEFT Protection does
Speaker 1: belong on here. Originally I thought Armageddon, but I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a good one. They've talked about the land
Speaker 1: denial stuff and we'll talk about that more tomorrow. Goes
Speaker 1: back to the redundancy, So I just well, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna waste my you put on.
Speaker 2: You know what, I like Teft's Protection. I don't think
Speaker 2: it needs to be on the list. If it were
Speaker 2: on the list, I would cite a different reason. I
Speaker 2: would cite the not the feel bad reason like you do,
Speaker 2: but the reason that it gets It doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: it's a card that gets better the higher kind of
Speaker 2: competition you play it at.
Speaker 1: Right, the card is good when.
Speaker 2: You're playing core and upgraded, like the lower tier or
Speaker 2: the lower brackets, when mostly you're gonna win the game
Speaker 2: with combat damage. You're you're you're Teft's protecting when you're
Speaker 2: gonna get attacked, and it's powerful there, and it's also
Speaker 2: powerful when somebody's comboing on a single turn in ceed eight.
Speaker 2: So it's like powerful everywhere. Yeah yeah, okay, So onto
Speaker 2: Blue Blue. We got Cyclonic Rift, ex appropriate force of Will,
Speaker 2: fierce Guardians, ristic study, fasstis oracle ER's a lord, high artificer,
Speaker 2: mystical tutor, And ginga taxis core Augur. That's ginga taxis
Speaker 2: one the guy that makes your opponent's hand into zero.
Speaker 1: This is so easy, and it's ginga taxes. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you with somebody that plays Ginga taxes
Speaker 1: in a deck. I have never, not one time, not
Speaker 1: a single time ever ever seen somebody discard their entire
Speaker 1: hand to a Ginga taxis. And I have never drawn
Speaker 1: seven cards at the end of my turn. And it's
Speaker 1: a four to three for fucking ten, it does cost ten.
Speaker 1: It costs ten in it does cost ten. It's a
Speaker 1: five to four. But it's whatever. It's a minuscule sized
Speaker 1: creature with no evasion for ten. You don't minus. Tell
Speaker 1: me expropriate why is that extra turns fell more egregious
Speaker 1: than the other ones?
Speaker 2: Very specifically, it can give you chained extra turns, and
Speaker 2: then then it introduce is like a redundancy again in
Speaker 2: the game changer's list and the bracket kind of rules system.
Speaker 2: So it's already redundant. It costs eight. No sorry, it
Speaker 2: costs nine even more, and it is when you're at nine.
Speaker 2: Maybe you're at the point in the game if you're
Speaker 2: playing like upgraded or three or four level where it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: we should kind of expect spells of this kind of
Speaker 2: altitude to do this powerful of a thing.
Speaker 1: So which one would you add in blue? Hm? Kind
Speaker 1: of tough the Sphinx. If I have to add one,
Speaker 1: I would put constipated Sphinx because it provides, like if
Speaker 1: you're gonna put ristic study on here, which I think
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be on here beyond the fact that it's
Speaker 1: expensive and annoying, I would put constipated Sphinx on because
Speaker 1: it probably gives you as much, if not more, card
Speaker 1: advantage plus a giant flying body. Yeah blocks really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they I don't think that should actually be on here.
Speaker 1: But if some nobody held a fricking knife to my
Speaker 1: head and said you have to pick a blue card,
Speaker 1: that's the blue card.
Speaker 2: A knife to my head, I don't think that's the saying.
Speaker 2: But I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: The intent.
Speaker 2: The intent, Ah, that's a good one in my mind.
Speaker 2: I would maybe say like force of negation because it's
Speaker 2: like fierce guardianship and force of will. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: mean that only is free when it's not your turn.
Speaker 1: Maybe I mean an I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 1: that is irrelevant. How good that card is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a defensive card instead of like it can't
Speaker 2: really be used. It can be, but you have to
Speaker 2: have the mana. It can't be used as an offensive counterspell.
Speaker 2: When I'm trying to win on my turn, I need
Speaker 2: the manna to play it. Yeah right, so maybe maybe
Speaker 2: it's not quite as good. I've probably won more games
Speaker 2: and not lost as many games when I cast Packed
Speaker 2: of Negation. Yes, that's a good one too, because that
Speaker 2: literally has a freaking zero on it, right, or or
Speaker 2: it has nothing on it it's zero. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: like it's you can't pay man to cast that car.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Okay, those are their fun and I mean
Speaker 2: we could probably discuss for a week in detail, like
Speaker 2: the Commander group who put this together probably did like
Speaker 2: every single card.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, let's move on to black.
Speaker 2: Yes, Ollis Is said Itel Detoots, Imperial Seal, Opposition Agent,
Speaker 2: tur Grid, Vampiric Tutor, and ad nauseum.
Speaker 1: This is another super easy one, and you take Turgot off.
Speaker 1: When was the last time you saw somebody play a
Speaker 1: Turgrit onto the the table and have the game just
Speaker 1: warp all the way around her? What that time you
Speaker 1: even heard of somebody putting a Turgrit in their ninety nine?
Speaker 1: Besides me, have you ever seen a Turgrid deck ever?
Speaker 1: And I only built it because everybody said I shouldn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you also don't have it anymore. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: took it apart because everybody hated playing against it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it kind of socially, it worked itself out, worked itself out,
Speaker 2: like if it wasn't a game changer, it would work
Speaker 2: itself out in the bracket kind of first part of
Speaker 2: this new ruling system, where you're playing Turgrid, you're sacrificing,
Speaker 2: you're making people sack creatures or lands or discard cards,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 1: You freaking get them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing all of the things that the bracket
Speaker 2: system tells you not to, unless you're playing at levels
Speaker 2: four or five, in which case she's fine, she's fine,
Speaker 2: or she just gets all the way blown out because
Speaker 2: people actually run removal in those brackets.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Turgrid is a good one. And to answer your
Speaker 2: other question, when have I seen Turgern in A ninety
Speaker 2: nine since what twenty what twenty nineteen when that card
Speaker 2: came out?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Maybe once, maybe, and maybe it was actually just your
Speaker 2: Turgrid that she was in the.
Speaker 1: Command zone has already put it back into my hand
Speaker 1: and I played it from there, and I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: it one step further for anybody who's like, man, Turget
Speaker 1: is so game warpingcase, when was the last time you
Speaker 1: saw somebody go just And I gets so demoralized when
Speaker 1: a target hits the table as opposed to a talks rill.
Speaker 1: Talks rill is a game warping card, and HiT's not
Speaker 1: on here whereas Turgrid is. And I think if Turget
Speaker 1: is going to be on here, and that there's a
Speaker 1: there's a this is where I say that this is
Speaker 1: the feel bads or the butt hurt.
Speaker 2: Conclusion, there's no denying that Turgrid, like talk shrill, is
Speaker 2: a game warping card. If I sit down and say
Speaker 2: I want to play my third deck because that's my
Speaker 2: deck that's maybe closest to like A one, right, it's
Speaker 2: probably my least powerful deck. And you say, well, my
Speaker 2: Turgrad deck is h doesn't have any game changers. It's
Speaker 2: maybe A two or three because it is powerful, right.
Speaker 1: That would blow me out of the water.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't want that. So, like I can
Speaker 2: get why Turgerid's on the list, Sure should I I
Speaker 2: don't know the thing about a game changer being a
Speaker 2: legendary creature, though, is like that counts as one of
Speaker 2: your things and that that means that your tur grid
Speaker 2: deck can't be a one or two a one or two. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure. I'm not quite sure how I
Speaker 2: feel about that yet. Yeah, I'm not sure how I
Speaker 2: feel about that.
Speaker 1: I'm percolating on that one as well. If I could
Speaker 1: add a card to black, it would be a Torrent
Speaker 1: of Haillfire all day, every day, because that is one
Speaker 1: of those And I remember hearing a couple of other
Speaker 1: people have said that cards that just go from nothing
Speaker 1: to I win. And there are very few cards that
Speaker 1: exemplify that more than Torrent of hell Fire for ten, Like,
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna win that game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tormented Hailfire for ten when everybody's at like, well thirty, Yeah,
Speaker 2: thirty means my opponent's boards have nothing on them or
Speaker 2: they're dead or well, if they're at thirty, they're not
Speaker 2: dead because they'll just sacrifice all their shit. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then that's not fun for them. That a lot of
Speaker 2: these things, and I'm gonna probably use this phrase over
Speaker 2: the next day or so quite a bit, is they
Speaker 2: remove agency from your opponent. They don't allow your opponent
Speaker 2: to play.
Speaker 1: That's kind of saying the same.
Speaker 2: Thing they eliminate choices, they eliminate contributions, tormenttal health fire
Speaker 2: can do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The only caveator, and the.
Speaker 2: Reason I think it's not on the list is because
Speaker 2: you need well sixty five man, yeah, exactly twelve man
Speaker 2: in your case. Yeah, which you're not just making twelve man.
Speaker 2: You actively have to try to do that right now.
Speaker 2: You could be playing Mono black. You could have some
Speaker 2: maybe other game changers that we're going to see, but
Speaker 2: let's move on. This is an easy one.
Speaker 1: Red.
Speaker 2: We got Jessica's will and underwear breach. Which one are
Speaker 2: you taking off?
Speaker 1: Jessica's will? I play it the most because I think
Speaker 1: under underwear breach is certain. Yeah, you know what, this
Speaker 1: is harder than I think it is. When I was
Speaker 1: building my rev deck, this is what I thought in
Speaker 1: my head because I wanted my rev deck to scale
Speaker 1: really well. And when I thought in this hang with
Speaker 1: like the big swing in CDH Dick And the reason
Speaker 1: that I thought maybe is because of underworld breach, I
Speaker 1: could use their underworld breach to breach Combo myself. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna breach myself. That's like a huge that is
Speaker 1: a huge game changing play. Whereas a Jessica's will, I've
Speaker 1: certainly played Jessica's wills into borders, Like I guess I'll
Speaker 1: just turn my three manna into five mana and play
Speaker 1: a five drop. I will reveal three cards, play none
Speaker 1: of them and be sad. Yes, I've certainly done that.
Speaker 1: So I think the Florida ceiling ratio there isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you nobody plays Underworld Breach to do fair things.
Speaker 2: I was just That's what I was gonna say, is
Speaker 2: when you look at the floor and ceiling of every
Speaker 2: card on this list, which again I'm sure the people
Speaker 2: who made this list did, at least I'm giving them
Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt of doing because there are
Speaker 2: lots of people who are.
Speaker 1: Smart and Caribout magic.
Speaker 2: Sure, okay, not just us, we at least Caribout magic.
Speaker 2: So Jessica's will, I think the floor and the ceiling
Speaker 2: is actually quite a bit narrower than the floor and
Speaker 2: the ceiling for Underworld Breach. The thing about Underworld Breach
Speaker 2: is nobody's building it.
Speaker 1: For the floor. No, No, everybody's.
Speaker 2: Building it saying I'm gonna make the floor equal to
Speaker 2: the ceiling, and then the ceiling is going to be
Speaker 2: shooting a fucking rocketed outer space, right like Underworld Breaches
Speaker 2: is a game changing card.
Speaker 1: Yes, and Jessica's Will could be, but it requires other
Speaker 1: things to happen. If your deck isn't built to be
Speaker 1: flow you out, not strong, Jessica's will isn't gonna.
Speaker 2: Get you there, And the same is true art about
Speaker 2: Underworld Breach. If it's not to blow you out with
Speaker 2: Underworld Breach, Underworld Breach doesn't do anything. So you know what,
Speaker 2: We're gonna leave both those cards on that line.
Speaker 1: If I had to have at a red one, and
Speaker 1: this is controversial because I do play this in every
Speaker 1: one of my mono red decks, I'd put blood Moon
Speaker 1: on it. Blurred Moon. It goes back to manad denial,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's a little bit different because
Speaker 1: I think that people are going to hold things like Armageddon,
Speaker 1: Winter Orb and blood Moon. I feel like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there that are going to
Speaker 1: look at those as three separate things, whereas I think,
Speaker 1: for the purposes of this list and the bracket system,
Speaker 1: they're all the same thing. Hm. And so I put
Speaker 1: blood Moon on there just because I know people hate
Speaker 1: it and they like to run greedy man of basis
Speaker 1: with no basics in them. So here we are, and
Speaker 1: given that the benchmark of a pre con is two,
Speaker 1: and all of their manna comes into play tafft because
Speaker 1: they refuse to print good lands into pre cons. If
Speaker 1: you play a blood Moon against a pre con, it
Speaker 1: instantly makes your deck better because now not only is
Speaker 1: the land coming into play tapped, it still doesn't give
Speaker 1: them the colors that they want.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and you know what the other thing, too
Speaker 2: is And it says it right in Gavin's article, and
Speaker 2: everybody's talking about, oh yeah, you could probably go up
Speaker 2: or down like a level and you could say, oh my,
Speaker 2: my level two deck has one game changer in it.
Speaker 1: Fucking blood Moon. Nube. I guess you don't play magic.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you could do that, Yes, yes you could
Speaker 2: do that. You shouldn't, so blood Moon could be on
Speaker 2: this list. Sure, yeah, Green we got another short one
Speaker 2: Survival of the Fittest vorny Clx Voice of Hunger that was,
Speaker 2: and then Guya's Cradle.
Speaker 1: That's a good card. I'd play all of those cards.
Speaker 2: I yeah, you know what, if I were going to
Speaker 2: remove a card, I would remove born CLEAs because it's
Speaker 2: not a repeatable tutor, and it doesn't give you overwhelming
Speaker 2: card advantage or like man advantage on turnfucking one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to cite your reason for Jinga Taxis
Speaker 2: coming off of blue is this is an eight drop
Speaker 2: and very very very rarely have I ever and usually
Speaker 2: this out works, especially in casual magic.
Speaker 1: Who's going to kill that?
Speaker 2: Warn Clex, anybody who kills it, We're going to leave
Speaker 2: alone because your mana stay's tapped.
Speaker 1: For a turn. Yep, We'll give you a turn away
Speaker 1: from us doing anything bad to you, and you make
Speaker 1: the deal amongst your fears. Maybe they get it for
Speaker 1: one turn and then it's dead and it's gone. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I would put on instead? What would
Speaker 1: you put creator? Hoof Behemoth? Creator for the same for
Speaker 1: the same reason that I said PEF's protection and the
Speaker 1: same reason that I said, whatever my black card work
Speaker 1: Town to hailfire, because it goes from like, hey, I
Speaker 1: got a bunch of weenies on the table, I'm blocking,
Speaker 1: I got seven to one ones. I'm playing SAPs. I
Speaker 1: got one hundred SAPs, but they're so small I can't
Speaker 1: get in. Oops, and the game's over. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: the exact reason I cut Creator Hoof from my Tanna
Speaker 1: deck because I found it was just going too much, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I have twelve SAPs. I guess I'll just win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, Crater hoofin in a Green deck
Speaker 2: feels an awful lot, like, oh, he's got eight guys?
Speaker 2: Does he have eight mana? It's like, oh he's untapping
Speaker 2: with seven man o guys too blue because you got riffed.
Speaker 2: And guess what's on the list ye contic rift wreck right,
Speaker 2: So again you you gotta do some work. You've got
Speaker 2: to have guys.
Speaker 1: Right, So you're playing if you're playing Green and you
Speaker 1: ain't got guys, I don't know if you're actually playing Green.
Speaker 1: I have tried that.
Speaker 2: Now you can't play blood no uh Winter orb no
Speaker 2: more though, and they got okay, multicolor.
Speaker 1: This is the weirdest section. These are all Banda's commander essentially. Right,
Speaker 1: We're like, these commanders are this level now, period.
Speaker 2: And we're we've reached the point where we reached the
Speaker 2: top this list and we're gonna talk about it tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I love this list for this reason. We can put
Speaker 2: commanders on here. Okay, the opposite of what I said
Speaker 2: for Turgrid. We can put commanders on this list and
Speaker 2: it relegates them, by the nature of the rules of
Speaker 2: this system.
Speaker 1: To not casual tables anymore. Yeah, and I think I
Speaker 1: like that. Also.
Speaker 2: I don't like playing against Innan Bonder, Prodigy, Rico, Tiger's Shadow, Winona,
Speaker 2: and Joiner of Forces Grand Armitder Augustine the Fourth.
Speaker 1: We can advise Eric. Yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2: I don't like playing or Urza or Turgered. I don't
Speaker 2: like playing against any of those guys, and now they're
Speaker 2: relegated to level three, four or five.
Speaker 1: There you go. That's I would leave all these guys
Speaker 1: on here, and like I talked we talked about earlier,
Speaker 1: I would add talks rel this. You would add talks
Speaker 1: and I play talks Real. I have a talks Real deck,
Speaker 1: and I would put him on here just to make
Speaker 1: sure that, Hey, everybody, my Talks Real deck, isn't it two,
Speaker 1: because I think it might be Hang on just a second,
Speaker 1: gonna look you talk while I find.
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna move on to colorless because I
Speaker 2: don't know who I would add as far as multicolor
Speaker 2: is concerned.
Speaker 1: My Talks Real is a two talks. Anybody who's ever
Speaker 1: played against my talks real like, it's not a fucking two.
Speaker 2: I I I'm sure that there's multicolor like multicolor commanders that.
Speaker 1: I also don't like playing against.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if okay, Edric Spy Master of Trust,
Speaker 2: because there's not one single Edric Spy Master of Trust
Speaker 2: that is an extra turns and flying men yep, and
Speaker 2: oh no, that would create a redundancy because they already
Speaker 2: say no chaining extra turns prick. All right, well, continuing
Speaker 2: on onto colorless, Ancient tomb, Chrome, mox, the one Ring, Tabernacle,
Speaker 2: peddro Veil, Trinisphere, come on, grim monolith, binds eye diamond,
Speaker 2: what mox diamond a joke?
Speaker 1: This sucks this list. This is where I think we
Speaker 1: run into the well. I don't own knees, so we
Speaker 1: should just ban them. Is you can't have things that
Speaker 1: well it gives you two man on turn one and
Speaker 1: then not have Solaring on the list, and Solaring shouldn't
Speaker 1: be on the list, and neither should I would argue
Speaker 1: all of these cards except for maybe the Tabernacle, the Tabernacle,
Speaker 1: and nobody has I've seen I've run into a table
Speaker 1: Tabernacle of Pendrol Veil once and all the time I've
Speaker 1: been playing Commander, I've seen that card played once. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're there when it was built. You're right, and
Speaker 1: you know what happened to it. You know what happened
Speaker 1: to it. Strip. I don't want to say somebody who's
Speaker 1: playing blood Moon in their deck and save everybody, but
Speaker 1: that's what happened to it. Rhyme the smudge exactly. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is where I think that things
Speaker 1: get kind of like really really, I like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to take the opposite line.
Speaker 2: Okay, while I can recognize that there is a portion
Speaker 2: of the player base who is in the camp that
Speaker 2: you're in, sure, I like that they're on this list
Speaker 2: because it says, again, there is a rules system that
Speaker 2: keeps this kind of magic play to a certain group
Speaker 2: of magic players. Sure, and that I hate to use
Speaker 2: the word like it creates a safe space for other
Speaker 2: magic players, like we're trying to physically harm them, but
Speaker 2: but that's what it creates. It creates a place that
Speaker 2: I can sit down with my deck that's worse than
Speaker 2: a pre con because I'm an idiot, or actually my
Speaker 2: pre con right and it creates a spot in it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I've got two decks.
Speaker 2: That are in the three category that play the one ring.
Speaker 2: And that's the only thing me too, that puts them
Speaker 2: in a three. If I say, hmm, this play pattern
Speaker 2: or this card or this type of card isn't what
Speaker 2: the official people want for their game, or it's not
Speaker 2: the kind of culture or environment or play patterns that
Speaker 2: they envisioned.
Speaker 1: For that card, they shouldn't have printed it. They shouldn't
Speaker 1: have printed it. You're right, but they did. Yeah, they did.
Speaker 1: Now we have to deal with it.
Speaker 2: Now there's a rules system to say, hey, we printed this,
Speaker 2: Uh oh, we shouldn't have. How about just relegate that
Speaker 2: to your more competitive or tuned powerful decks. And what
Speaker 2: that does is clear up a spot in my shrewfus deck,
Speaker 2: because what the fuck is a.
Speaker 1: One ring doing in there except drawing me card? That
Speaker 1: deck is terrible. It needs a one ring to work,
Speaker 1: that's what it's doing in there.
Speaker 2: And then the other one is for thematic reasons, my
Speaker 2: modified pre con Souron deck.
Speaker 1: Of course it's in there because it's the one ring
Speaker 1: and it's sourn Yes, the deck's a fucking one and
Speaker 1: theme fully on theme. Just say, so, does that make
Speaker 1: it a three because it's got a one ring?
Speaker 2: Does that make it a one because it's got a
Speaker 2: one ring? Or does it make it a do? And
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put the difference. And then I sit down
Speaker 2: and say, hey, this is my modified pre con Souron deck.
Speaker 2: I probably made it worse, so it stays at a
Speaker 2: two because I'm not a Watzi deck designer only uses
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings cards.
Speaker 1: Oh it's got a one ring, right, So what do
Speaker 1: I do? We'll pack it up, Sucker.
Speaker 2: Pack it up, sucker, go play somewhere else, complete the tables.
Speaker 1: What would you take off? What would gun to your head?
Speaker 1: You can only take one off? Oh? Only one one?
Speaker 2: I take a one ring off?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I would argue for the one ring
Speaker 1: to stay only because you know what, fuck that Lion's
Speaker 1: Eye diamond, Lion's Eye diamond. I would take off. Yes,
Speaker 1: that that that because that's a card that you have
Speaker 1: to build a specific, specific type of deck to take
Speaker 1: advantage of. I think people look at it, see it
Speaker 1: makes three man out of any color, costs zero, and think,
Speaker 1: holy fuck, that's gotta be too good. It costs so
Speaker 1: much money. It has to be so strong.
Speaker 2: It also says, discard your hand, doesn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just you just carge your hand before you
Speaker 1: get to play anything with it. You gotta make, you
Speaker 1: gotta make do.
Speaker 2: And you can compare Lion's Eye Diamond to Underworld Breach.
Speaker 2: If it's if you know, you know, if you're using it,
Speaker 2: or because you know then you're gonna you're gonna do the.
Speaker 1: Thing, then it's sure it's a three. But like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, like I play.
Speaker 2: It in its funny lines, Eye Diamond and Underworld Breach
Speaker 2: go hand in.
Speaker 1: Hand with Yeah, and they do, and you you just
Speaker 1: want to play the other all the time because they
Speaker 1: fuel each other, right, Like that's the point. But Nicholson, right,
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I take Lions I Diamond off
Speaker 1: just because I think it is a very niche card
Speaker 1: and the decks that it's going to be in and
Speaker 1: be good in aren't going to be twos anyway. Otherwise
Speaker 1: you're just making something. Hell make three man on just
Speaker 1: card my hand and play my commander.
Speaker 2: It's essentially a jewel lotus at that point, man, I
Speaker 2: want Jewel Lotus to be on this list. And you
Speaker 2: know what that means it means it's unbanned. That's the
Speaker 2: card I would put onto this list because that would
Speaker 2: mean it's unbanned.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. Smart, Yeah, that's very good. I'd put
Speaker 1: manacrypt on here then yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2: We got it.
Speaker 1: We did it. We did it, baby you read yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh we did it. Boys.
Speaker 2: So okay, we're gonna talk about the game Changers some
Speaker 2: more tomorrow. We're gonna we're gonna give our expanded thoughts
Speaker 2: on the bracket system with examples from our decks. I
Speaker 2: think it's important if we want to be if we
Speaker 2: want to, you know, cultivate CECO Nation to be a
Speaker 2: great place to play magic, regardless of whether you're a
Speaker 2: neck breather.
Speaker 1: Or or a beard mouth.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, if you're either of those things, as long
Speaker 2: as you're not an asshole. And and we can use
Speaker 2: this as a tool to kind of kind of gauge assholeness.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about it tomorrow and John's got a
Speaker 2: great video out. He beat us to the punch based
Speaker 2: on our recording schedules. So check out all the bracket
Speaker 2: stuff on the c CEO y DC all week hit
Speaker 2: our theme song